******************************************************************************* kinghippy@juno.com (Caleb J Johnson) I came to your website per your request, which I have reproduced below. I have several problems with your website which center around the evolution debates. In a defense of evolution, one of your writers begins addressing creationists, when it is clear that he is actually arguing against several fundamentalist claims. Fundamentalists, of course, are not true creationists; they do not apply any thought to HOW the creative process occurred. They simply say that the Bible teaches it to be so, and thus they believe. When people mix the ideas of fundamentalism with that of creationism, they are indeed able to make those who are ignorant of the differences believe that creationism is silly and irrational. As a matter of fact, however, quite the opposite is true. Fundamentalism and creationism are NOT synonyms. One of the many differences between the two center around the age of the earth. A fundamentalist will arbitrarily assume that the age of the earth must be only a little over 6,000 years old. He bases this on a mistaken interpretation of Genesis chapter one, where the Bible says that God created the earth in "days." The Fundamentalist, whose mind is closed to the interpretation of scientific data, arbitrarily demands that these days be considered literal 24-hour days. A creationist, however, is willing to let his interpretation of Scripture be shaped by the findings of science. Hence, he has no problem acknowledging that the time period specified only as "day" could be millions of years in length. Day does not necessarily mean 24 hour period. Even today we speak of Napoleans "day" or Our grandfather's "day." A fundamentalist rejects ALL evidence of evolution, based solely on his flawed understanding of Scripture. Not so with a creationist, who acknowledge that evolution has occurred. What a creationist questions is whether ALL species can be attributed to a SINGLE ancestor, or rather the various forms of life demand the belief that they have evolved (i.e., changed,) from many different ancestors. After all, is it not the Bible's teaching that all the forms of life on earth today came from a pool of ancestors small enough to fit inside a large wooden box, (during the flood.) While it is not my intent to discuss the validity of the flood theory, the fact remains that no serious person would teach that all the many forms of life on earth today could fit, by pairs, in a box of that sort. Therefore, when one reasons on the Scriptures, it is clear that even they teach evolution. What is often overlooked is that when Darwin first advanced his theory, his main critics were not always creationists, but rather paleontologists, who objected to his theory on the grounds that it was not supported by the fossile record. That fact is still true today, as evolutionists cannot produce even a single link which links the various families and kingdoms. ======== I do thank you for visiting my site and replying with your insights, If you take the Genesis stories as being actual historical physical events, then real problems follow if you consider science has validity. Even if you take the "days" of Genesis as undefined periods of time, the Genesis story has trees before sun moon and stars. You also have animals, plants and people without ancestors. You have a woman from a man's rib and a talking walking snake which suddenly lost its legs and ate dust. The physical evidence from paleontology indicates the first life form seen in the fossil record is prokaryote bacteria, 3.85 billion years old. The chemical stages leading to life are still a partial mystery. Nothing higher is seen until about a billion years ago when eukaryote bacteria appear in the fossil record. These more complex bacteria have rod shaped chromosomes instead of the circular chromosomes of the prokaryotes. It has been considered that life could have appeared more than once on the early earth, but was destroyed by the vast bombardment of that time. Look at the moon for what the early earth must have looked like. My files discuss some of the problems and possible partial solutions to the chemical processes which lead to life. The basic chemical similarity of all living things indicate a common ancestor in the early Precambrian, left handed amino acids and a similar genetic code. Creationism assumes a Creator, a Person Who interacts with the physical world in some observable manner. The scientific system ignores the influence of all proposed deities, as being undetectable. Adding a deity to a science model has never produced better predictive value than assuming purely physical processes. I agree that the flood story has no science validity. However this story is referenced in the New Testament as being the basis of a lesson by Jesus, as is the Adam story. The only part of the Bible which seems to parallel evolution is Eccl. chap 3 where it claims man has no advantage over the animals. The fossil record is far more complete than you seem to be aware of. I think you have not had time to study the intermediate stages detailed in the two evolution files. In addition, the talk.origins newsgroup has files on intermediates. The main idea is that animals and plants without ancestors is mythology. I suggest you carefully check out these references. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/horses.html http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-evolution.html http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/speciation.html http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/fossil-hominids.html Morphological evidence for a hermit crab ancestry of lithodids (Crustacea, Decapoda, Anomala, Paguroidea). The horse, hominid and whale sequence is quite good. The fossil record now is far more complete than in Darwin's time. Many obvious transitional fossils have been found in the fossil record. Strictly speaking, ALL earlier life forms are either transitionals or lead to extinction. No modern species is found in formations earlier than the Tertiary period. Transitional forms are generally lacking at the species level, but they are abundant between larger groups." Gould, S.J. (1983) "Evolution as Fact and Theory," reprinted in _Hen's Teeth and Horse's Toes_, pp. 253-262. This was originally published in _Discover_ magazine, May 1981. Have you read Darwin's works? Have you read the modern professional science literature on evolution? I suspect you have little or no direct experience in field geology or paleontology. Religious literature is a poor place to get a science education. I have 50 years experience in both, as an amateur trained by professionals. That claim that there is inadequate evidence for intermediates supporting evolution comes from religious sources, not science sources. You can find scientific references that a particular science model relating to mechanisms and details of evolution may be incomplete or even mistaken, but this does not invalidate the fact of evolution. That is the nature of the scientific process, proposed models published for peer review in the professional journals. The ideas surviving this process are the basis of the next stages of investigation. Errors are modified or eliminated. Only a very small percent of all living things fossilize. This means small local populations have a tiny chance of being fossilized, found and scientifically described. It is these small isolated local initial populations which produce new species. This, and the episodic nature of geological deposition results in the gaps seen in the fossil sequences. I suggest you study the book SCIENCE AND EARTH HISTORY by A. N. Strahler for a better overview of these processes than I can give here. Attacking a model of science does not validate a single religious idea, as the default explanation. I suggest you study my files and its references at greater length and many of these questions about evolution will be cleared up. I am looking forward to your opinions on these matters. END***************************************************************************