1163 === Subject: Re: HP 49G+ keyboard return Anything with a 7 starting should be fine. Maybe it will be a 50. . . > My 50g with S/N 644xxxxx has unreliable ON and ENTER keys (sometimes I need to push ON several times to turn it on, and the ENTER key feels mushy). Did HP change their manufacturing starting in 2007? I've got a 629xxxxx that feels great. Bad batch maybe? And if the 35s hardware is as great as everyone has been saying, I just might have to get one if they put out a revision 2 with the software issues fixed. -Dave Britten === Subject: Re: HP 49G+ keyboard return > I've had my 49G+ since August of 2006. The 0 and . keys have broken > and are loose. I called HP yesterday and they are sending me a new > one. The rep said that the new one will have been made by a different > contractor and I shouldn't have keyboard problems any more. What serial > numbers should I be looking at? Mine was CNA52506201. Glad to hear they're honoring the expired warranty period and has acknowledged faulty hardware/manufacturing!! Assuming you purchased your 49G+ new, August 2006 translates to approximately 631 to 635 in hp-serial-number-date-code (i.e. where 6=2006, and 31..35 is the thirty-first to thirty-fifth week of the year). The difference between 631 and 525 means your calculator was over a year old when you opened the package (which is purely background info and has nothing to do with the expired warranty). As the warranty period obviously started when you bought your HP, the difference between now (when you called HP to report the problem), which is the forty-first week of 2007 (i.e. 741), and when you bought it, say 635 (August 2006 from above), that would put you around five to six weeks past the end of the warranty period. Again, I'm happy to hear they're replacing it, because I've heard of cases where they chose not to. But I think that was in the earlier days when they weren't acknowledging that they had a problem with their keyboards. Can you stand a little story? I once bought a new (early model) 33S that turned out to have some problems. I called HP to complain and asked for a replacement. They agreed, and sent me another. The problem was the replacement was older and was actually USED! It was loose inside the box and had scratches all over it! When I called HP to tell them the second unit was worse than the first, they asked me to mail both caculators back to them, to the attention of a certain person at HP. I was pretty disgusted with the whole situation, and instead of spending more money on shipping, I just took the original back to Walmart where I bought it and got a refund. End of story.. or so it seams.. doesn't it? :-) I had earlier convinced a co-worker to buy a new HP 49G+. After he had used it for a while, he found it too was having keyboard issues, and wasn't happy at all with the overall quality of the calculator (having come from 41CV and 48-series calculators before that). I told him he should tell HP about it, and ask for another. In fact, I told him, I had the name and address of someone at HP that he should he explained the keyboard problem, and also pointed out the quality issues with the new HP as compared to his ten and fifteen year old HPs that had none of the problems of the 49G+. When he sent the calculator and letter to HP (this is where he didn't take my advice), he indicated he did NOT want a replacement, and that they should take his critique to heart and study the issues he presented. End of story.. or so it seams.. doesn't it? :-) A couple days later, my friend recieved a new 50G and a personal apology asking him to consider using this newest release calculator that they just introduced. The letter explained that HP had returned to using metal domes in keyboard, and that the color scheme of the calculator had been improved for better readability. My co-worker has used the new 50G for more than a year now, without issue (Oh, we did have to modify the Keytime parameter once). Two weeks ago, just following the HHC2007, I showed the same friend my new 35S. He liked it enough to buy his own, and last week phoned me to say how much he liked the soft-touch of the keyboard, as well as the return to good manufacturing quality. He also likes the size of it, and said he wasn't so self-conscious while in meetings (in comparison of the size of the 50G). In summary, it appears HP has won back a customer. Keep up the good work HP! This IS the end of the story. I hope you like your new 50G too. Let us know. Matt === Subject: Re: 50g questions, programming and OS Hi > Neither did i -until the other day :-) > NOTE: my cas or your case doesn't matter, what matters is: the problem does > exist It has happened a few times .... Jean-Yves -- They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security (Benjamin Franklin) === Subject: Re: 50g questions, programming and OS reply-type=response > Hi said: > Neither did i -until the other day :-) >> NOTE: my cas or your case doesn't matter, what matters is: the problem >> does >> exist > Never happened to me. Perhaps different revisions of operative systems? Anyway I don't think it is an ARM problem. BTW as alarm clock I don't use the native functionality of WM6 but a software able to manage several alarms and different time zones. === Subject: Re: 50g questions, programming and OS > Never happened to me. Perhaps different revisions of operative systems? > Anyway I don't think it is an ARM problem. > BTW as alarm clock I don't use the native functionality of WM6 but a > software able to manage several alarms and different time zones. That's perhaps the reason why it didn't happen to you, which again doesn't mean there is no such issues on *different* devices, different builds (revisions). also the case i had with my device once: I was explaining to my colegue at work that my WM5 works stable and i rarely need to reboot while he reboots his device quite frequently. The next day (i guess God was trying to email me or something) i had to reboot few times for not realy critical reasons but then -very interesting :-) Of course i realize ARM core doesn't relate to issues with alarms (far from it) and i *do* realize ARM is just a CPU core, more of architecture name, rather then specific processor type, but when we talk ARM in context of 49G+ or 50G i assume ARM based processors, in HP specific hardware and/or configuration. Also when i reffered to BlackBerry it's because i realized that a lot of average users don't actualy distinguish those type of devices (qwerty keys in few rows, landscape color display is automatically assumed to be a black berry) However : I consider Black berry as a standard in the category of its own and i do belive it's a fine product, but i don't belive it's proprietary RIM OS will become as widely and well known as WM5(6)... so I would prefer if it would be WM6 device since it's wider accepted, well known OS with great support, development tools and SDK. My personal favorite in this regard is HTC S-620, even if it's TI OMAP based. Is it wrong to beat the competition with their own product :-) ? -- manjo http://fly.srk.fer.hr/~manjo/openfire | 49G+ | ROM 2.09 | hw serial:CN40213309 | sw serial:CN40701165 | === Subject: Re: 50g questions, programming and OS <14otg35c6k0ja51rj4m5voh3kid4ubnbnq@4ax.com> <470f9e0f$0$30519$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <5ncee7Fhm6o3U1@mid.individual.net> <471177ce$0$15278$426a74cc@news.free.fr> Wow, I'm glad I created a lively discussion! :) Having had the 50g for a couple of days, I am really enjoying the improvements over plain 48g as far as CAS. Haven't really delved into any serious programming yet, just learning all the quirks and stuff. The key layout is very different, I miss direct access to prg and cst, clear, and shifted purge, but surprisingly I'm quickly getting used to the enter key. John, I draw a pretty big line between a calculator and a computer - I want a calculator to be a relatively simple, real-time device. I've used Mathematica and I love it, but would not want it on my calculator - that's what the laptop is for, so the idea of using a full-blown OS like WM6 or Linux is an overkill IMHO. Unfortunately as the computer hardware increases in speed, it does in complexity as well, and so does the software. I bet an old 486 DOS box running Lotus 123 probably feels as fast, if not faster, than your run of the mill XP box running Excel :) Same with today's PDAs - my first Palm felt faster than my current Motorola Q. I do not want the same thing to happen to calculators. I can see it already: 400MHz XScale, nice color TFT screen, and 5 hr battery life, mediocre tactile response, not much faster than the 50g, and $400... Of course I will be happy to be proven wrong if anybody comes out with something that actually works good, and has RPN :) JYA, good point about being able to use the cursor keys while in Alpha mode, but the keys still suck :) Not a huge deal, however two more keys would've made a big difference. Oh, and emulators suck. BTW, I actually found a 49G+ to look at, and the screen is definitely higher contrast than my 50g, however the keyboard was very poor. MrScout === Subject: Re: 50g questions, programming and OS > The key layout is very different, > I miss direct access to PRG and CST, CLEAR, and shifted PURGE So did I, so I swapped a few keys, using key assignments: SYMB <-> PRG CUSTOM <-> MODE If it's my older 49G, then also (to make it identical to the 49G+ and 50G): ['] <-> EQW EVAL <-> CAT A large, touch screen, with all virtual keys, all fully programmable, might be nicer -- with a side benefit that no one could operate anyone else's calculator but his own, thus at the same time discouraging theft :) > but surprisingly I'm quickly getting used to the ENTER key. It helps those who have both a TI and an HP, who keep swapping calculators, according to which one is best for any given task :) -[ ]- === Subject: Re: 50g questions, programming and OS We use Blackberrys at work (mostly 8800, Curve and Pearl) which are all based on ARM, and I never heard anybody complain once about issues with alarms. I had the 8800 myself for about a year, and never once was it a problem. I now have a Motorola Q, and in 7 months, it screwed up the alarms twice already... MrScout === Subject: Re: 50g questions, programming and OS > We use Blackberrys at work (mostly 8800, Curve and Pearl) which are > all based on ARM, and I never heard anybody complain once about issues > with alarms. I had the 8800 myself for about a year, and never once > was it a problem. I now have a Motorola Q, and in 7 months, it screwed > up the alarms twice already... For PDA use, I like my Palm TX, which is also based on ARM -- a 312 MHz Intel part. The alarms work fine. I suspect that, since traditional PDA functions are central to Palm OS, they just spent the time to get this right. The fact that it serves as a good platform for calculator emulators, like Power48 and Free42, is just a bonus! ;) Boy, emulators sure are great! -- Dave Boyd If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate. -Capt. Zapp Brannigan, D.O.O.P. === Subject: Re: 50g questions, programming and OS > We use Blackberrys at work (mostly 8800, Curve and Pearl) which are > all based on ARM, and I never heard anybody complain once about issues > with alarms. I had the 8800 myself for about a year, and never once > was it a problem. I now have a Motorola Q, and in 7 months, > it screwed up the alarms twice already... It's about time for RIM to branch out into making calculators, then, and get rid of Kinpo :) [except perhaps for the cost factor :] http://www.blackberry.com/ -[ ]- === Subject: Re: 50g questions, programming and OS [BlackBerry] Re MrScout: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry claims that: Modern BlackBerry handhelds incorporate an ARM 7 or 9 processor, while older BlackBerry 950 and 957 handhelds used Intel 80386 processors. The latest GSM BlackBerry models (8100 and 8700 series) have an Intel PXA901 312 MHz processor http://www.blackberry.com/ Personally, I do all my research in slow-motion, so of course don't emulate me :) -[ ]- === Subject: Re: 50g questions, programming and OS manjo a .8ecrit : > Again: interesting are similar issues on 2 entirely different OS-es, which > could relate to ARM It's certainly not due to ARM but rather the SoC that contains the ARM core or the other chips ;-) Laurent === Subject: Re: como programar para celulares > n.8bo sei se esse .8e o forum correto para expor essa duvida. mas va la. > fiquei encantado com o celular do meu irm.8bo e com o que ele .8e capaz de > fazer. como completo ignorante na materia pergunto: 1 - o que .8e necessario para desenvolver programas para celulares? 2 - que linguagem usar? 3 - para cada fabricante de celular .8e preciso ter um ambiente > difernte? 4 - .8e preciso usar emuladores pra pc? uso o windows 98 . existe > emuladores pra ele? etc etc etc se alguem puder me dar uma luz fico grato obrigado deltanusigma Hola ! No va a ser f.87cil que algui.8en te entienda el Portugu.8es en este sitio. La programaci.97n de celulares se hace generalmente en Java, del que existen muchos otros sitios especializados. Suerte. Daniel === Subject: 50G and fractions On my casio fx 115ES I am able to type (1/2) + 1 and get 3/2, if I want it in decimal format I press S <-> D, this is really quite helpfull. Though on my 50G even in exact mode If I do (1/2) + 1, I get (1/2) + 1, I dont get 3/2, also if I were to do ((1/2) + 1)/2, I dont get 3/4, I get ((1/2) + 1)/2 Is it possible to convert into fractions, this will be much helpful. === Subject: Re: 50G and fractions > On my casio fx 115ES I am able to type (1/2) + 1 and get 3/2, if I > want it in decimal format I press S <-> D, this is really quite > helpfull. Though on my 50G even in exact mode If I do (1/2) + 1, I get (1/2) + > 1, I dont get 3/2, also if I were to do ((1/2) + 1)/2, I dont get 3/4, I get ((1/2) + 1)/2 Is it possible to convert into fractions, this will be much helpful. The EVAL key, when in exact mode, will immediately convert any such expression to a simple fractional one. === Subject: Re: 50G and fractions On my casio fx 115ES I am able to type (1/2) + 1 and get 3/2, if I > want it in decimal format I press S <-> D, this is really quite > helpfull. > Though on my 50G even in exact mode If I do (1/2) + 1, I get (1/2) + > 1, I dont get 3/2, also if I were to do > ((1/2) + 1)/2, I dont get 3/4, I get ((1/2) + 1)/2 > Is it possible to convert into fractions, this will be much helpful. The EVAL key, when in exact mode, will immediately convert any such > expression to a simple fractional one. EVAL works great now is there a way to go from .75 to 3/4 === Subject: Re: 50G and fractions > > On my casio fx 115ES I am able to type (1/2) + 1 and get 3/2, if I > want it in decimal format I press S <-> D, this is really quite > helpfull. > > Though on my 50G even in exact mode If I do (1/2) + 1, I get (1/2) + > 1, I dont get 3/2, also if I were to do > > ((1/2) + 1)/2, I dont get 3/4, I get ((1/2) + 1)/2 > > Is it possible to convert into fractions, this will be much helpful. > > The EVAL key, when in exact mode, will immediately convert any such > expression to a simple fractional one. EVAL works great now is there a way to go from .75 to 3/4 Several ways. QX or ->Q (where -> represents the right arrow character, ASCII code 141) will convert the decimal on the stack to a rational or integer, as appropriate, and simultaneously set the exact mode flag. At the very top of the screen, exact mode is indicated by an = whereas approximate mode is indicated by a ~. XNUM does the reverse, changing exacts to decimals and setting approximate mode. Hold down the right shift key (red on a 49) while you press ENTER to toggle between exact and approximate modes. There is also ->Qpi (where pi is the lower case pi symbol, ASCII code 135) which doesn't mess with mode settings but tries to find the best rational or best rational multiple of pi approximation to a decimal. For example .5 ACOS ->Qpi results in '1/3*pi' Hope this is useful. === Subject: Re: 50G and fractions EVAL works great now is there a way to go from .75 to 3/4 Several ways. QX or ->Q (where -> represents the right arrow > character, ASCII code 141) will convert the decimal on the stack to a > rational or integer, as appropriate, and simultaneously set the exact > mode flag. > You mean XQ? S.C. === Subject: Re: 50G and fractions > > EVAL works great now is there a way to go from .75 to 3/4 > > Several ways. QX or ->Q (where -> represents the right arrow > character, ASCII code 141) will convert the decimal on the stack to a > rational or integer, as appropriate, and simultaneously set the exact > mode flag. > > You mean XQ? S.C. Sorry, YES! === Subject: Re: 50G and fractions > On my casio fx 115ES I am able to type (1/2) + 1 and get 3/2, if I....... Try PROPFRAC found in the Arith menu. on the result you may in certain circumstances need to appy PROPFRAC twice to get an acceptable answer. === Subject: New HP 35s hardware revision? I went to the Amazon.com page for the HP 35s and was [pleasantly] surprised by the new graphic of the calculator: http://www.amazon.com/Hewlett-Packard-F2215AA-ABA-Scientific-Calculator/dp/B 000TDRHG8/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-0498435-0183108?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=11923 79981&sr=8-1 Now, this seems different from the first hardware release. The display doesn't seem to be embedded as deeply as before. Also, the previously golden left shift key has been replaced with the burned orange color of the 50g's right shift. Some minor styling differences also exist; for example, the old version also had a horizontal white line across the top above the logo. The whole unit also seems to have more of a matte finish; this could be good if the display is also less reflective. Now, the question is, if this is a hardware change, is there a corresponding software change? i.e. are the COS and TAN bugs fixed? These accuracy bugs desperately need to be fixed to preserve the connection between HP calculators and mathematical accuracy (like the incredibly accurate 50g). Also, are the annoying bugs such as the theta symbol looking like an 8 fixed? Or how about the square root key bug where it only accepts arguments such as (-1,0) instead of just -1? On a $60 calculator, people expect prompt bug fixes. What happened to HP's legendary past? By the way, they need to get rid of Algebraic entry on their top calculators. If the parenthesis keys were removed and instead STO and RCL got dedicated buttons, that would improve ergonomics drastically. Almost every serious HP user probably exclusively uses RPN anyway. Now...I need to save up for a 35s to complement by 50g... === Subject: Re: New HP 35s hardware revision? > I went to the Amazon.com page for the HP 35s and was [pleasantly] > surprised by the new graphic of the calculator: > ... > Now, this seems different from the first hardware release. IMHO that's the same picture that could be found on various other websites some weeks and even months ago. Including the somewhat strange colors of the shift keys. So the picture isn't new. If you look just a bit closer you'll notice that this is not a regular photograph, it looks more like a computer generated picture, possibly the output of CAD or rendering software, maybe heavy use of Photoshop. So, since this picture does not show a real HP-35s, all observations regarding various details are obsolete. Just take a look at the display: the real thing would show the function arguments in brackets, i.e. COS(30)/SIN(90)+1. > Now, the question is, if this is a hardware change, It isn't. <8) > What happened to HP's legendary past? The same that happened to all the past: it's gone. Consider the price of a HP-67 or HP-41 in 1980's dollars. How much would the average user spend for a similar product today? Dieter === Subject: Re: New HP 35s hardware revision? >> What happened to HP's legendary past? The same that happened to all the past: it's gone. In a way, that version of HP is still around, only now it's called 'Agilent'. (Short version: HP split off its test/measurment/lab equipment part, gave them the name 'Agilent', and kept its lucrative laser-printer- making part called HP.) I wonder what Agilent calculators would look like? -- Dave Boyd If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate. -Capt. Zapp Brannigan, D.O.O.P. === Subject: Re: New HP 35s hardware revision? <1su4h35cbk9ta44g3m53ub322fkqaq7odg@4ax.com > I went to the Amazon.com page for the HP 35s and was [pleasantly] > surprised by the new graphic of the calculator: > ... > Now, this seems different from the first hardware release. IMHO that's the same picture that could be found on various other > websites some weeks and even months ago. Including the somewhat strange > colors of the shift keys. So the picture isn't new. If you look just a > bit closer you'll notice that this is not a regular photograph, it looks > more like a computer generated picture, possibly the output of CAD or > rendering software, maybe heavy use of Photoshop. So, since this picture > does not show a real HP-35s, all observations regarding various details > are obsolete. Just take a look at the display: the real thing would > show the function arguments in brackets, i.e. COS(30)/SIN(90)+1. > Now, the question is, if this is a hardware change, It isn't. <8) > That's too bad. Still though, the HP 35s is a promising machine. S.C. === Subject: Please lead me through the menus for plotting a freq plot! Help, I cannot draw simple frequency plots, using the fancy menus of my HP50G! Could you please lead me through a simple example, like this? If I generate data with << CLSIGMA 1 1000 START SIGMA+ NEXT >>, how do I plot the frequencies of my data? I would like to have six frequency bars, showing the number of throws giving one through six. I have access to the books for HP48, 49 and 50, but my reading and understanding power fails me, I'm afraid... Per. PS. The STAT menu (97 MENU) is unavailable in the editor; how do I access that one on the HP50G? === Subject: Re: Please lead me through the menus for plotting a freq plot! > Help, I cannot draw simple frequency plots, using the fancy menus of > my HP50G! Could you please lead me through a simple example, like this? If I generate data with << CLSIGMA 1 1000 START >, how do I plot the frequencies of my data? I would like > to have six frequency bars, showing the number of throws giving one > through six. Have you tried the HISTPLOT command? Unfortunately, this only graphs relative frequencies, but that may be all you need. If done in a program try inserting HISTPLOT 0 FREEZE at the end of the program to display the graph when the program ends. I have access to the books for HP48, 49 and 50, but my reading and > understanding power fails me, I'm afraid... Per. PS. The STAT menu (97 MENU) is unavailable in the editor; how do I > access that one on the HP50G? One way of accessing almost any menu in the editor is to (1) access the desired menu just before entering the editor (2) enter the editor (3) press (and hold) the left shift key while pressing NXT, which should recall the desire menu while still in the editor. === Subject: Re: Problems with HP50G SD Reader > I just upgraded a new HP50G to the latest HP approved ROM using a > 64MB SD card. The calculator behaved as expected (at least according > to the instructions). But after resetting the calculator I can't > access the SD. Going through the Filer, port 3 doesn't show up as > available. Going through the self-test menu, no card is found. > Trying to reformat the card on the calculator also fails to find the > card. I'd try formatting the card on a computer, and see if it shows up. > Also, try another SD card to see if that works. Somehow the card may > have been corrupted and not recognized. I had that happen with an SD > card in a digital camera once. Wouldn't even format in the computer. TW (from the DOS prompt, specifying FAT as the filesystem), but still the HP refuses to see it. (The computer had no trouble reading the card before or after I reformatted it.) === Subject: SST through XEQ:ed routine without singel-stepping on the HP-35s? On the old HP-29 (and possibly HP-25) there were a handy choice of single stepping: you could either execute the sub routines without single stepping, or you could walk down into them and single step the instructions even in the sub routines. The idea was, I guess, that you debug the sub routine separately. Having come back to this old nice way of programming (instruction oriented) in the HP-35S i miss the SST But Run Through Subroutines that was in the past. Did I miss something in the HP-35S book, or is this nifty thing missing? It will not turn my world over if it does, but handy it was! Per. === Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_HP_49g+/50g:_Dr=2E_Urroz=B4s_Online_User=B4s_Guide?= > Been looking at Dr. Gilberto Urroz«s HP49G+ user«s guide. Great guide > BTW, thank you Dr. Urroz. > I wonder why Chapter 27 is so huge (nearly a 50MB download!) when it«s > only a 12 page PDF document. These look a lot like the official manual of the 49G+ to me. Andreas http://www.software49g.gmxhome.de === Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_HP_49g+/50g:_Dr=2E_Urroz=B4s_Online_User=B4s_Guide?= > These look a lot like the official manual of the 49G+ to me. > The link that leads to the URL I posted above is titled: HP 50G/HP 49G+/HP 48Gii User's Guide by Chapters - the HP 49G+ Guide === Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?HP_49g+/50g=3A_Dr=2E_Urroz=B4s_Online_Use?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?r=B4s_Guide_=5BPDF_compression=5D?= About PDF compression: http://createpdf.adobe.com/cgi-feeder.pl/help_compression Other image compression (for web): http://support.adobe.com/devsup/devsup.nsf/docs/52521.htm -[ ]- === Subject: 35s Just got my 35s, love the little bugger, Tim did you have anything to do with the equation filer?? Its excellent. Mick Oh yes the keyboard is beond belief. === Subject: Re: 35s > Just got my 35s, love the little bugger, Tim did you have anything to do > with the equation filer?? > Its excellent. > Mick Are you asking me? Um, nope. It carries over from the 33 (I think), but I'm not sure if it was only Cyrille who programmed that or someone else. TW === Subject: Re: 35s Oh dont be shy hehehe Mick C ;) > Just got my 35s, love the little bugger, Tim did you have anything to do > with the equation filer?? > Its excellent. > Mick Are you asking me? Um, nope. It carries over from the 33 (I think), but I'm not sure if > it was only Cyrille who programmed that or someone else. TW > === Subject: My wet dream atm New model, 50g with 35s keyboard, bluetooth, and widows/unix software for filing/printing eqations ect. Maybe a front end for maple/mathamatica. Big enter key, supports 4 gig cards. Who is buying thier children a 35s? Wait till they start programming them. Oh yes and if the 50g could emulate the 35s it would be future proof. Mick C === Subject: Re: SST through XEQ:ed routine without singel-stepping on the HP-35s? > On the old HP-29 (and possibly HP-25) there were a handy choice of > single stepping: you could either execute the sub routines without > single stepping, or you could walk down into them and single step the > instructions even in the sub routines. Blush! My memory does not serve me faithfully, I'm afraid! This was not the HP-29 at all, it was the HP-48/49/50! The instruction is called SST How I could have mixed these up I don't know, but I did. Forget my rant, please! Per. === Subject: Re: SST through XEQ:ed routine without singel-stepping on the HP-35s? On the old HP-29 (and possibly HP-25) The 25 had no subroutines. > there were a handy choice of > single stepping: you could either execute the sub routines without > single stepping, or you could walk down into them and single step the > instructions even in the sub routines. The idea was, I guess, that you > debug the sub routine separately. Nice idea - most high-level language compilers (i.e. their IDEs) offer > this option. But how did they do that on the 29? What keys were used for > skipping a soubroutine instead of SSTing through every step of that > routine? > Having come back to this old nice way of programming (instruction > oriented) in the HP-35S i miss the SST But Run Through Subroutines > that was in the past. Did I miss something in the HP-35S book, or is > this nifty thing missing? It will not turn my world over if it does, > but handy it was! You didn't miss anything. It's not there. And it wasn't there even in > the 67/97 or 41/42. Dieter Hmm, it's been many moons since my HP29C went away, but think the mechanism for doing this was to single step until you entered the subroutine, then hit R/S (run/stop) to continue execution at full speed up to a program halt (R/S) or a return from subroutine (RTS) instruction. I don't know how the HP35s deals with this situation. === Subject: Very Very Ergent... Hello How can I solve dy/dx=(x^3+y^3)/(x^3-y^3) === Subject: Re: Very Very Ergent... > Hello > How can I solve dy/dx=(x^3+y^3)/(x^3-y^3) If I was looking for a closed form solution, I wouldn't do this on a calculator. Anyway, if you substitute y = u*x you can separate the variables. You wind up with dx/x on one side and something of the form f(u)/g(u) du on the other. All you have to do is integrate both sides. g(u) is a quartic. Find its two quadratic factors and write f(u)/g(u) as a sum of partial fractions. Then you can integrate it. It's a little messy. Scott -- Scott Hemphill hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu This isn't flying. This is falling, with style. -- Buzz Lightyear === Subject: Re: Very Very Ergent... Hello > How can I solve dy/dx=(x^3+y^3)/(x^3-y^3) If I was looking for a closed form solution, I wouldn't do this on a > calculator. In fact, you can do it on an hp49 or hp50. > Anyway, if you substitute y = u*x you can separate the > variables. You wind up with dx/x on one side and something of the > form f(u)/g(u) du on the other. All you have to do is integrate both > sides. g(u) is a quartic. Find its two quadratic factors and write > f(u)/g(u) as a sum of partial fractions. Then you can integrate it. > It's a little messy. Even with a calculator to help it is more than a little messy. === Subject: Re: Very Very Ergent... On the 35s? mwhhha Mick C > Hello > How can I solve dy/dx=(x^3+y^3)/(x^3-y^3) > === Subject: Re: Very Very Ergent... yamahdiefatemeh: > How can I solve dy/dx=(x^3+y^3)/(x^3-y^3) What is that? A differential equation? Solve this is easier when one knows what it is ;-) -=-=-=- === Subject: Re: Very Very Ergent... > yamahdiefatemeh: > How can I solve dy/dx=(x^3+y^3)/(x^3-y^3) What is that? A differential equation? Solve this is easier when one knows what it is ;-) > Smells like someone's homework problem to me.... - Kurt === Subject: Re: Very Very Ergent... <47151459.40804@nyet.nyet> <13haoqopn943ue9@corp.supernews.com Smells like someone's homework problem to me.... Very, Very ergent [sic] smells like someone's TEST problem to me.... How flattering it is that students are Wifi-ing this group during exams to request answers! Pal === Subject: Re: Very Very Ergent... > Hello > How can I solve dy/dx=(x^3+y^3)/(x^3-y^3) On my 48GX I just pull up the Differentiate... input form in the Symbolic menu, input the above expression, select X (as the variable of differentiation), make sure Symbolic is in the Result field, and press OK. What comes up is 3*X^2/(X^3-Y^3)-(X^3+Y^3)*(3*X^2)/(X^3- Y^3)^2. I think the process is similar on the 49G+ and 50G. Dick === Subject: Re: Very Very Ergent... > Hello > How can I solve dy/dx=(x^3+y^3)/(x^3-y^3) For implicit differentiation on a 50g, you need to tell it that y is a function of x (otherwise it assumes that y is a constant). You can do this by replacing y with Y(X) when entering the expression. Then use DERVX (like any other derivative) and it gives you something with d1Y(X) in it. Type in d1Y(X) and use SOLVE (not SOLVEVX because d1Y(X) is [hopefully] not your system variable). It should return d1Y(X) = Y(X)/X In other words, dy/dx = y/x. Note that in order to type in something like Y(X) you need to use algebraic mode (i.e. the single quotes). Parenthesis are not valid syntax in RPN. S.C. === Subject: Re: Very Very Ergent... > Hello > How can I solve dy/dx=(x^3+y^3)/(x^3-y^3) If you mean urgent, try 'd1Y(X)=(X^3+Y(X)^3)/(X^3-Y(X)^3)' 'Y(X)' DSOLVE === Subject: Exchange rate What factors effect our exchange rate, if anybody knows fully, reply as soon as you read this, thought not.... Wonder if the world bank is involved? Michael Carey === Subject: Re: Exchange rate > What factors effect our exchange rate, if anybody knows fully, reply as soon If anyone knew fully, they would make a killing in the Futures market.... - Kurt === Subject: Re: Exchange rate Hmm, are accountants scum? Michael Carey > What factors effect our exchange rate, if anybody knows fully, reply as soon If anyone knew fully, they would make a killing in the Futures market.... - Kurt === Subject: Re: Exchange rate Woops sorry wrong group, I am creating havoc for certain people (who shall remain nameless) in another ng. MC > What factors effect our exchange rate, if anybody knows fully, reply as soon > as you read this, thought not.... > Wonder if the world bank is involved? Michael Carey === Subject: Re: HP 49G+ keyboard return > I've had my 49G+ since August of 2006. The 0 and . keys have broken > and are loose. I called HP yesterday and they are sending me a new > one. The rep said that the new one will have been made by a different > contractor and I shouldn't have keyboard problems any more. What serial > numbers should I be looking at? Mine was CNA52506201. Glad to hear they're honoring the expired warranty period and has > acknowledged faulty hardware/manufacturing!! Assuming you purchased your 49G+ new, August 2006 translates to > approximately 631 to 635 in hp-serial-number-date-code (i.e. where > 6=2006, and 31..35 is the thirty-first to thirty-fifth week of the > year). The difference between 631 and 525 means your calculator was > over a year old when you opened the package (which is purely > background info and has nothing to do with the expired warranty). As the warranty period obviously started when you bought your HP, the > difference between now (when you called HP to report the problem), > which is the forty-first week of 2007 (i.e. 741), and when you bought > it, say 635 (August 2006 from above), that would put you around five > to six weeks past the end of the warranty period. Again, I'm happy to hear they're replacing it, because I've heard of > cases where they chose not to. But I think that was in the earlier > days when they weren't acknowledging that they had a problem with > their keyboards. Can you stand a little story? I once bought a new (early model) 33S that turned out to have some > problems. I called HP to complain and asked for a replacement. They > agreed, and sent me another. The problem was the replacement was > older and was actually USED! It was loose inside the box and had > scratches all over it! When I called HP to tell them the second unit > was worse than the first, they asked me to mail both caculators back > to them, to the attention of a certain person at HP. I was pretty > disgusted with the whole situation, and instead of spending more money > on shipping, I just took the original back to Walmart where I bought > it and got a refund. End of story.. or so it seams.. doesn't it? :-) I had earlier convinced a co-worker to buy a new HP 49G+. After he > had used it for a while, he found it too was having keyboard issues, > and wasn't happy at all with the overall quality of the calculator > (having come from 41CV and 48-series calculators before that). I told > him he should tell HP about it, and ask for another. In fact, I told > him, I had the name and address of someone at HP that he should > he explained the keyboard problem, and also pointed out the quality > issues with the new HP as compared to his ten and fifteen year old > HPs that had none of the problems of the 49G+. When he sent the > calculator and letter to HP (this is where he didn't take my advice), > he indicated he did NOT want a replacement, and that they should take > his critique to heart and study the issues he presented. End of > story.. or so it seams.. doesn't it? :-) A couple days later, my friend recieved a new 50G and a personal > apology asking him to consider using this newest release calculator > that they just introduced. The letter explained that HP had returned > to using metal domes in keyboard, and that the color scheme of the > calculator had been improved for better readability. My co-worker has > used the new 50G for more than a year now, without issue (Oh, we did > have to modify the Keytime parameter once). Two weeks ago, just following the HHC2007, I showed the same friend my > new 35S. He liked it enough to buy his own, and last week phoned me > to say how much he liked the soft-touch of the keyboard, as well as > the return to good manufacturing quality. He also likes the size of > it, and said he wasn't so self-conscious while in meetings (in > comparison of the size of the 50G). In summary, it appears HP has won > back a customer. Keep up the good work HP! This IS the end of the > story. I hope you like your new 50G too. Let us know. Matt I have an early 49g+ and it sucks. Unfortunately, I didn't turn it in while under warranty. I would never buy another HP of any kind for this reason. If anyone knows who to send a letter to at HP to get a replacement for this defective product, please provide the contact information. JB === Subject: Re: Bug in HP-35S? HI, Joel: Please have a look at my primary analysis of your interesting bug, which I've posted as a new thread at the MoHP Forum, here: http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi?read=126708#12670 8 On Oct 15, 8:33 pm, Joel Koltner them indicate that something Very Strange is happening in how equations are > being evaluated. Anyone else want to try this out? Enter the following program: LBL A > 156.25 > STO X > 208.333333334 ;There are eight 'threes' in there > STO R > 1.77951304201 > STO Q > -R*X/(X*Q-R) ;Should evaluate to roughly -467, and it does > -R*X/(X*Q-R) ;Should (still) evaluate to roughly -467, but calculator > outputs 31.323 instead! > RTN It's important that the program is entered exactly as shown. Note that the > - in the expressions are entered with the +/- (change sign) key, not the > - (subtract) key. Changing the numerical constants will (often) make the > expressions evalulate correctly. Some minor changes (e.g., changing -R to +R) > in the expressions still demonstrates the error, but making significant > changes (such as changing X*Q-R to just X*Q) no longer does. Changing the > expressions to R*-X/(X*Q-R) fixes the problem. Removing the initial - in > the first expression causes the second expression to fail, although the output > is then -52.287 rather than 31.323! I discovered this while creating a real program, which is rather alarming...! > Anyone have any ideas? Is this a well-known bug somehow? ---Joel === Subject: Re: Bug in HP-35S? > Please have a look at my primary analysis of your interesting > bug, which I've > posted as a new thread at the MoHP Forum, here: > http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi?read=126708#126708 ---Joel === Subject: Re: Bug in HP-35S? For those interested, a user on the HPMuseum.Org forum tried the code on a 33s and it has the same problem. They also have a page of collected 35s bugs, which is useful: ---Joel === Subject: Re: Bug in HP-35S? <13h8d5bjpv8q58d@corp.supernews.com> On Oct 16, 5:49 am, Joel Kolstad 33s and it has the same problem. They also have a page of collected 35s ---Joel Hi Joel, very strange. I have tried this on my HP35s and obtain the correct result each time. Serial number CNA 72700609 John === Subject: Trying to construct a GROB (efficiently) Hi all, I'm tinkering with a (really simple) CPU emulator that's written in UserRPL. No, not for any practical reason. :) I want to have the register/memory contents displayed graphically as one 32 bit word per horizontal line, with black = 1, white = 0. Ideally, the least- significant bit will be the leftmost, with order increasing steadily to the right. I could also live with the least-significant bit in the rightmost position, with order increasing to the left. My problem is creating such a GROB representation of the memory contents in a speedy fashion. I tried the GROB 32 1 #FFFFFFFFh approach, but this puts the most significant nybble in the leftmost position, and the most significant bit within the nybble at the rightmost position. Is there a quick way to construct a GROB of this format? I'm not opposed to using a few SYSEVALs (with 50g entry points) if necessary, but I really don't want to have to build the GROB pixel by pixel in a FOR loop, as it will likely kill performance. Any suggestions? -Dave Britten === Subject: Re: Trying to construct a GROB (efficiently) > Is there a quick way to construct a GROB of this format? I'm not > opposed to using a few SYSEVALs (with 50g entry points) if necessary, > but I really don't want to have to build the GROB pixel by pixel in a > FOR loop, as it will likely kill performance. Any suggestions? seams like your register will be 32 bit i asusme you have library 256 attached here's what you could do : << GROB 32 1 # 12345678h (this is your binary register in hex) ->STR 3. 10. SUB SREV + STR-> NOTE: your LSn and LSb will be on the left, higher bits towards right, you can do similar thing in binary to turn the order of your bits the other way around, change to hex and then compose a GROB -- manjo http://fly.srk.fer.hr/~manjo/openfire | 49G+ | ROM 2.09 | hw serial:CN40213309 | sw serial:CN40701165 | === Subject: Re: Trying to construct a GROB (efficiently) i asusme you have library 256 attached here's what you could do : > << > GROB 32 1 > # 12345678h (this is your binary register in hex) > ->STR > 3. 10. SUB > SREV > + > STR- > NOTE: > your LSn and LSb will be on the left, higher bits towards right, > you can do similar thing in binary to turn the order of your bits the other > way around, > change to hex and then compose a GROB -- > manjohttp://fly.srk.fer.hr/~manjo/openfire > | 49G+ | ROM 2.09 | hw serial:CN40213309 | sw serial:CN40701165 | Yup, I stuck a single call to SREV in there before the concatenation, and it's working perfectly. Can't believe I didn't think of that. :) As for using POKE instead, maybe I'll give that a try. Right now I'm doing the ol' < REPL>> approach, which isn't exactly a speed demon. Is there any particular documentation you'd recommend that's relevant to using POKE to write to display memory? -Dave Britten === Subject: Re: Trying to construct a GROB (efficiently) > Right now I'm doing the ol' < REPL>> approach, > which isn't exactly a speed demon. Is there any particular documentation > you'd recommend that's relevant to using POKE to write to display memory? grob ->LCD 3 FREEZE -=-=-=- === Subject: Re: Trying to construct a GROB (efficiently) <471664F3.4060404@nyet.nyet> On Oct 16, 11:45 pm, manjo but here's more general detailed documentation which is great for me: Programming in System RPL by Eduardo M Kalinowski and Carsten Dominik > (see the display section) By Poking the register value directly to display you will bypass conversions > and display operations. i think there is a copy on hpcalc.org available for download, or, > out :-) -- > manjohttp://fly.srk.fer.hr/~manjo/openfire > | 49G+ | ROM 2.09 | hw serial:CN40213309 | sw serial:CN40701165 | Okay, I found the docs, though I'm not really seeing anything about the display memory layout (plenty of entry points, though). I'll see what a little more Googling turns up. grob ->LCD 3 FREEZE -=-=-=- Hmm, that seems to replace the whole display with the contents of the GROB, but I need to be able to overlay a small 32x1 GROB at various places around the screen (without clearing everything else). -Dave Britten === Subject: Re: Trying to construct a GROB (efficiently) <471664F3.4060404@nyet.nyet> the fastest way for this would be Saturn-ML where you can directly modify the Display-GROB. If you go for SYS-RPL (which is probably fast enough in your case) you can use GROB! which is Bang type. Get your display with HARDBUFF (or if you know already which display you gonna use you can use ABUFF (which is the stack-display) or GBUFF (graphic display), ABUFF is slightly faster as HARDBUFF because there is no check needed which is the active display and the pointer is returned directly to the stack. Since your write directly to the active screen with GROB you probably want to halt your program as suggested before so that one can see what has changed on the screeen. HTH Andreas http://www.software49g.gmxhome.de > On Oct 16, 11:45 pm, manjo Not realy i don't know of and documentation on the subject, > but here's more general detailed documentation which is great for me: > Programming in System RPL by Eduardo M Kalinowski and Carsten Dominik > (see the display section) > By Poking the register value directly to display you will bypass conversions > and display operations. > i think there is a copy on hpcalc.org available for download, or, > out :-) > -- > manjohttp://fly.srk.fer.hr/~manjo/openfire > | 49G+ | ROM 2.09 | hw serial:CN40213309 | sw serial:CN40701165 | Okay, I found the docs, though I'm not really seeing anything about > the display memory layout (plenty of entry points, though). I'll see > what a little more Googling turns up. > grob ->LCD 3 FREEZE > -=-=-=- Hmm, that seems to replace the whole display with the contents of the > GROB, but I need to be able to overlay a small 32x1 GROB at various > places around the screen (without clearing everything else). -Dave Britten === Subject: Re: Trying to construct a GROB (efficiently) I have some spare time and see you have healthy enthusiasm so i'll try to bring some basics to get you started: Basically you have 2 areas which you can use one is called ADSIP and the other GDISP ADISP is address to look for address to GROB used to display stack (in short : it's a kind of pointer to stack GROB) GDISP is (same thing) used to display graph -in userRPL reffered as PICT Both have their advantages : ADISP is always present and default size 131x80 (40G+ and 50G) when you write to it you should freeze the particular area so that stack GDISP (PICT) is not always present and can be variable size therefore you should always initialize it's size using PDIM to whatever you need, to change the view to PICT use PVIEW. (you can use addresses instead of ADISP and GDISP, however if you use it like i described here your code will work even if those pointers change it's values in future ROM/extable versions it will get the updated value from new extable) if you don't have extable installed and/or don't want to depend on it you can use : #806D5h instead of ADISP GETADR #806E4h for GDISP GETADR example (assuming you have extable installed) : ADISP GETADR APEEK (at this point you have GROB address) A-> (this will recall the stack GROB to stack) instead of A-> write : 20 + (to skip GROB object structures and point to pixel data) 123 POKE 1 FREEZE (in the upper left corner you will see 123 in binary dots from left to right) Pixel data is memory area representing rows of pixels row is a whole number of bytes ! assuming you have default 131 pixels, divided by 8(pixels in byte) is 16.something => 17 bytes => 34 nibbles in a row. so first you add 20 to skip GROB structures if you add 34 more -you will write at the begining of the second pixel row note: Obviously you can position your register easily in quantities of 4 pixels so you should adapt your screen layout accordingly *or* shift your register for desired number of bits to position precisely (by 1 pixel) That's basics of display/GROB for you :-) Simple right ? -- manjo http://fly.srk.fer.hr/~manjo/openfire | 49G+ | ROM 2.09 | hw serial:CN40213309 | sw serial:CN40701165 | === Subject: Re: Trying to construct a GROB (efficiently) <471664F3.4060404@nyet.nyet> so i'll try to bring some basics to get you started: Basically you have 2 areas which you can use > one is called ADSIP and the other GDISP ADISP is address to look for address to GROB used to display stack (in short > : it's a kind of pointer to stack GROB) > GDISP is (same thing) used to display graph -in userRPL reffered as PICT Both have their advantages : > ADISP is always present and default size 131x80 (40G+ and 50G) > when you write to it you should freeze the particular area so that stack GDISP (PICT) is not always present and can be variable size > therefore you should always initialize it's size using PDIM to whatever you > need, to change the view to > PICT use PVIEW. (you can use addresses instead of ADISP and GDISP, however if you use it > like i described here your code will work even if those pointers change it's > values in > future ROM/extable versions it will get the updated value from new extable) if you don't have extable installed and/or don't want to depend on it you > can use : > #806D5h instead of ADISP GETADR > #806E4h for GDISP GETADR example (assuming you have extable installed) : > ADISP > GETADR > APEEK > (at this point you have GROB address) > A- (this will recall the stack GROB to stack) instead of A-> write : > 20 + > (to skip GROB object structures and point to pixel data) > 123 POKE 1 FREEZE > (in the upper left corner you will see 123 in binary dots from left to > right) Pixel data is memory area representing rows of pixels > row is a whole number of bytes ! > assuming you have default 131 pixels, divided by 8(pixels in byte) is > 16.something => 17 bytes => 34 nibbles in a row. > so first you add 20 to skip GROB structures > if you add 34 more -you will write at the begining of the second pixel row note: > Obviously you can position your register easily in quantities of 4 pixels so > you should adapt your > screen layout accordingly *or* shift your register for desired number of > bits to position precisely (by 1 pixel) That's basics of display/GROB for you :-) > Simple right ? -- > manjohttp://fly.srk.fer.hr/~manjo/openfire > | 49G+ | ROM 2.09 | hw serial:CN40213309 | sw serial:CN40701165 | the address of PICT with some SYSEVAL tricks, then store it and reuse it on each loop with some offsets to determine where on the screen it's writing. I'll give it a whirl later and see what happens - hopefully not TTRM. :) -Dave Britten === Subject: Re: Trying to construct a GROB (efficiently) <471664F3.4060404@nyet.nyet> the fastest way for this would be Saturn-ML where you can directly modify the Display-GROB. If you go for SYS-RPL (which is probably fast enough in your case) you can use GROB! which is Bang type. Get your display with HARDBUFF (or if you know already which display you gonna use you can use ABUFF (which is the stack-display) or GBUFF (graphic display), ABUFF is slightly faster as HARDBUFF because there is no check needed which is the active display and the pointer is returned directly to the stack. Since your write directly to the active screen with GROB you probably want to halt your program as suggested before so that one can see what has changed on the screeen. HTH Andreas http://www.software49g.gmxhome.de > On Oct 16, 11:45 pm, manjo Not realy i don't know of and documentation on the subject, > but here's more general detailed documentation which is great for me: > Programming in System RPL by Eduardo M Kalinowski and Carsten Dominik > (see the display section) > By Poking the register value directly to display you will bypass conversions > and display operations. > i think there is a copy on hpcalc.org available for download, or, > out :-) > -- > manjohttp://fly.srk.fer.hr/~manjo/openfire > | 49G+ | ROM 2.09 | hw serial:CN40213309 | sw serial:CN40701165 | Okay, I found the docs, though I'm not really seeing anything about > the display memory layout (plenty of entry points, though). I'll see > what a little more Googling turns up. > grob ->LCD 3 FREEZE > -=-=-=- Hmm, that seems to replace the whole display with the contents of the > GROB, but I need to be able to overlay a small 32x1 GROB at various > places around the screen (without clearing everything else). -Dave Britten === Subject: Re: Trying to construct a GROB (efficiently) [displaying a grob efficiently] With flag -83 cleared, the HP49/50 automatically displays grobs that are on the stack. Use 0 ->HEADER (hide the header) to leave more room on the stack. -=-=-=- === Subject: Re: Trying to construct a GROB (efficiently) > As for using POKE instead, maybe I'll give that a try. Right now I'm > doing the ol' < REPL>> approach, which isn't > exactly a speed demon. Is there any particular documentation you'd > recommend that's relevant to using POKE to write to display memory? Not realy i don't know of and documentation on the subject, but here's more general detailed documentation which is great for me: Programming in System RPL by Eduardo M Kalinowski and Carsten Dominik (see the display section) By Poking the register value directly to display you will bypass conversions and display operations. i think there is a copy on hpcalc.org available for download, or, out :-) -- manjo http://fly.srk.fer.hr/~manjo/openfire | 49G+ | ROM 2.09 | hw serial:CN40213309 | sw serial:CN40701165 | === Subject: Re: Trying to construct a GROB (efficiently) > seams like your register will be 32 bit > i asusme you have library 256 attached here's what you could do : > << > GROB 32 1 > # 12345678h (this is your binary register in hex) > ->STR > 3. 10. SUB > SREV > + > STR- NOTE: > your LSn and LSb will be on the left, higher bits towards right, > you can do similar thing in binary to turn the order of your bits the other > way around, > change to hex and then compose a GROB To make it faster, depending on how you're planing to display this GROB later, you could use POKE to push the reversed hex register directly to display memory (it would be signifficantly faster) -- manjo http://fly.srk.fer.hr/~manjo/openfire | 49G+ | ROM 2.09 | hw serial:CN40213309 | sw serial:CN40701165 | === Subject: Computer Security Information I Want To Share Computer Security Information To All Internet Netter: 1. Firewalls Torn Apart 2. Guide To Social Engineering 3. Social Engineering And Email Account Cracking 4. Network Firewall Security 5. Hijacking Hotmail Accounts For Newbies 6. Various Ways To Hack Or Over Ride Foolproof 7. Configuring ZoneAlarm Securely 8. IP Masquerading Tutorial 9. 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Writing Bootable CD's With Nero Administrator 113. How To Change Product Key In XP With No Re-Install 114. No More Popups 115. Tips And Tricks On Burning 116. The Elite Symbols 117. Windows Xp Product Key Modifier 118. Hacking Hotmail 119. Kazaa As A Annonymous Emailer 120. Cracking Unix Password Files For Beginners 121. Exploiting Cisco Systems 122. Cracking Unix Password Files For Beginners 123. Poor Security On Default Windows 2000 Server Installation Could Lead To Unauthorized Database Access 124. Remote Control Of IIS Windows 125. How To Become A Hacker Source: http://www.security.fx-vista.com === Subject: Re: Computer Security Information Uh huh, and what worms will I download with the information? And how many pages will my ASIO file grow... Michael Carey > I Want To Share Computer Security Information To All Internet Netter: > 1. Firewalls Torn Apart > 2. Guide To Social Engineering > 3. Social Engineering And Email Account Cracking > 4. Network Firewall Security > 5. Hijacking Hotmail Accounts For Newbies > 6. Various Ways To Hack Or Over Ride Foolproof > 7. Configuring ZoneAlarm Securely > 8. IP Masquerading Tutorial > 9. Interesting Things You Didnt Know About Your Computers Hardware > 10. Advanced Number Systems Made Easy > 11. Hacking Dictionary > 12. Hacking The Bios > 13. DNS The What The How And The Why > 14. Exploit Mihirs Guide To Inserting Logo To System Properties > 15. Getting Geographical Information Using An IP Address > 16. Create A Lightweight E Mailer > 17. Telnet Explained > 18. Installing A Webserver For NewbiesI > 19. The IP Address > 20. Being A Hacker On The Meaning Of Being A Hacker > 21. Well Known Port Numbers > 22. Samba How To > 23. Removing Banners > 24. Port Numbers Part 1 > 25. Port Numbers Part 2 > 26. Port Numbers Part 3 > 27. Port Numbers Part 4 > 28. Port Numbers Part 5 > 29. Port Numbers Part 6 > 30. Port Numbers Part 7 > 31. Port Numbers Part 8 > 32. Port Numbers Part 9 > 33. The OSI Model > 34. The Basic Elements Of Cracking > 35. Beginners Step By Step Security Guide > 36. Linking Rules For Hacking And Other Alternative Websites > 37. Installing A Webserver For Newbies > 38. Glossary > 39. Wireless Security And Hacking > 40. Wireless Network > 41. Demystifying Remote Host Part 1 > 42. Exploiting Design Flaws In The Win32 API For Privilege Escalation > 43. Wireless LAN Technologies and Windows XP > 44. Understanding NetBIOS > 45. The Complete Guide To Computers > 46. Things You Need > 47. How To Clear The Past Mapped Network Drives List > 49. Msn Tutorial Ugw Securtiy Information Base > 50. The Basics Of Cryptography > 51. PGP Encryption For Beginners Learn How PGP Works > 52. Cryptography FAQ > 53. Cryptography Split Wide Open > 54. W2K File System > 55. A More Indepth Article About The Basics To Encryption > 56. Protecting Your Scripts > 57. Breaking Script Encoder > 58. Windows 2000 Encrypting File System And Disk Wipe Software > Vulnerability > 59. Buffer Overflow Basics > 60. Deadly Dos Attack > 61. MS Office XP The More Money I Give To Microsoft The More > Vulnerable My Windows Computers Are > 62. Dos Attacks Explained > 63. Introduction To Denial Of Service > 64. Miscellaneous Groups Publications > 65. Documents About General Hardening > 66. Documents About Unix Hardening > 67. Basic Steps To Hardening A Standalone Windows 2000 Installation > 68. Setting Up IIS And Securing Streamed Content > 69. Articles On How To Securing Hardening BSD > 70. Step By Step Guide To Secure Win2k > 71. Documents About Windows9x ME Hardening > 72. Documents About General Hardening > 73. Securing Your Web Pages With Apache > 74. Documents About Windows9x ME Hardening > 75. Documents About IIS Hardening Securing > 76. Basic Steps To Hardening A Standalone Windows 2000 Installation > 77. Excellent Analysis Of The ICQ Trojans > 78. The ICQ Security Tutorial > 79. Backing Up Your ICQ Contact List And Settings > 80. Hijacking ICQ Accounts in Spanish > 81. ICQ Password Stealing Tutorial > 82. The ICQ Password Securing Tutorial > 83. Hijacking ICQ Accounts > 84. Back Door Infecting Guide > 85. Security Home > 86. Get ICQ Passwords Using Share Programms > 87. Snort On Windows 98/ME/NT4/2000 Using Mysql And Acid > 88. Eggdrop Bots Tutorial Written by The Cyber God > 89. Eggdrop Bots Tutorial > 90. Getting Passwords Of Nicks In mIRC > 91. IRC Spoofing > 92. The IRC Warfare Tutorial Written > 93. IRC Trading Security > 94. Getting Passwords Of Nicks In mIRC > 95. IRC Basic Commands > 96. Never Be Banned In IRC > 97. IRC FAQ Undergroundworld de vu the Secure-Net Search Lab > 98. A Better Way To Get Hotmail Passwords - A Little Helpful Program > With A Short Tutorial > 99. Newbie Keyloggers Toturial - How To Disable The Keyloggers > 100. Tutorial To Make Your Folder (Any ) Secure And Inaccessible By > Others Without Using Any Program > 101. A Trick To Get Access To Control Panel As A Restricted Network > User On Windows XP And 2000 > 103. Getting Rid Of The Urls You Visited In The Url Bar Of IE > 104. Exploring Windows > 105. Create Your Own Logon Message > 106. MSN Mesenger Tip > 107. Writing MBR When Norton Antivirus2002 Has Auto-Protection Enable > 108. Trick on CNN.COM or tricking minds via cnn.com > 109. Access The Blocked Folder In WinNt > 110. Various Methods Of Hacking Hotmail > 111. Writing Bootable CD's With Nero > Administrator > 113. How To Change Product Key In XP With No Re-Install > 114. No More Popups > 115. Tips And Tricks On Burning > 116. The Elite Symbols > 117. Windows Xp Product Key Modifier > 118. Hacking Hotmail > 119. Kazaa As A Annonymous Emailer > 120. Cracking Unix Password Files For Beginners > 121. Exploiting Cisco Systems > 122. Cracking Unix Password Files For Beginners > 123. Poor Security On Default Windows 2000 Server Installation Could > Lead To Unauthorized Database Access > 124. Remote Control Of IIS Windows > 125. How To Become A Hacker > Source: > http://www.security.fx-vista.com > === Subject: Tutorial Example Problem I've had trouble transferring this example from HPUserEdit to the emu48 emulator. When I try OBJ-> on this transfer i get the error message: OBJ-> Error: Invalid Syntax Does anyone have any idea of the cause of this error? Ç @INPUT specifications Enter V,T and n [S.I.]: { :V: :T: :n: { 2 0 } V } INPUT @Processing of input data OBJ-> -> V T n @Subprogram to add units to @variables Ç V '1_m^3' * { } + T '1_K' + n '1_mol' * + EVAL -> V T n @Subprogram to create output @string Ç V V ->TAG ->STR + T T ->TAG ->STR + n n ->TAG ->STR + '(8.34451_J/(K*mol))*(n*T/V)' EVAL p ->TAG ->STR + + + MSGBOX È È È === Subject: Re: Tutorial Example Problem Correction: Drag and Drop of the source file corrected the earlier problem. However, when I run the program the following message appears: Error: Inconsistent Units And the stack looks like: 3: { 100_m^3 } 2: T: 300 1: 1_K > I've had trouble transferring this example from HPUserEdit to the emu48 > emulator. When I try OBJ-> on this transfer i get the error message: OBJ-> Error: > Invalid Syntax Does anyone have any idea of the cause of this error? Ç > @INPUT specifications > Enter V,T and n [S.I.]: > { :V: :T: :n: { 2 0 } V } > INPUT > @Processing of input data > OBJ-> -> V T n > @Subprogram to add units to > @variables > Ç V '1_m^3' * { } + T '1_K' > + n '1_mol' * + EVAL -> V T n > @Subprogram to create output > @string > Ç V V ->TAG ->STR > + T T ->TAG ->STR > + n n ->TAG ->STR > + > '(8.34451_J/(K*mol))*(n*T/V)' > EVAL p ->TAG ->STR + + + > MSGBOX > È > È > È > === Subject: Re: Tutorial Example Problem > Correction: Drag and Drop of the source file corrected the earlier problem. However, > when I run the program the following message appears: Error: > Inconsistent Units And the stack looks like: 3: { 100 m^3 } > 2: T: 300 > 1: 1 K Probably you forgot to multiply T and '1 K' before you added it to the list. Try this: @INPUT specifications Enter V,T and n [S.I.]: { :V: :T: :n: { 1 0 } V } INPUT @Processing of input data OBJ-> -> V T n @Subprogram to add units to @variables V '1 m^3' * { } + T '1 K' * + n '1 mol' * + EVAL -> V T n @Subprogram to create output @string V V ->TAG ->STR + T T ->TAG ->STR + n n ->TAG ->STR + '(8.34451 J/(K*mol))*(n*T/V)' EVAL p ->TAG ->STR + + + MSGBOX HTH dj jurny === Subject: Read the parameters of an SD-card anybody knows how one could read the parameters of an SD-card (size, date, serial number, etc.) while the card is inside the calculator and put the results on the stack ? Andreas === Subject: HPCC's 24 Years of Datafile CD Now Available At the two recent HP calculator conferences in San Diego in September and London last weekend, an update to the Handheld and Portable Computer Club's Datafile Archive CD was distributed to all attendees. This version contains two additional years of Datafile issues, totalling 24 years from 1982 to 2005. For information on obtaining a copy, check http://www.pahhc.org/ppccdrom.htm . Jake Schwartz === Subject: Re: =DOFALSE bug? in ROM 2.09 > One of many old threads about these virtual opcodes Historical (original Saturn): http://www.raclot.org/dev/hpcalc/hp48/saturn/mnemonics.html Modern (ARM-emulated Saturn): Unrelated, but maybe interesting (would you like a pocket guide to HP49/50?) http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/ -=-=-=- === Subject: Re: News Group Message Help Seen it many times. I'm a purist in this regard... If you ask a group > for help, it's rude to ask the group to reply directly to you -- it's > lazy and implies that you don't care if the answer is propogated further > as long as you get it. This is just one of the MANY ways I can be a pedantic jerk, of course. ;) I wouldn't call it being a jerk. Usenet is not a support desk, so asking people to reply to you personally is out of line. - Kurt === Subject: Re: News Group Message Help > Usenet is not a support desk It isn't? > so asking people to reply to you personally is out of line. Most everything I've seen on Usenet could be pigeonholed as: o Get (and give) help and support. o Chat (like in a local pub, meet people, etc.) o Vent frustration, anger, fight, etc. (like in a pub :) Add anything I've missed. Of course, it's done in public, so that all lurkers may watch, and receive vicarious benefit (or entertainment), if not actually participating. -=-=-=- === Subject: Re: News Group Message Help get windows for dummies.... mate michael carey > Using Outlook Express, when I want to reply to a message > I have three options: o Reply to Sender > o Reply to All > o Reply to Group Which of the above should I use? > Jim === Subject: Re: News Group Message Help I've been using Windows since 3.0, just never participated in a newsgroup, mate. As a laugh, I received two copies of my last message in my mailbox. Jim > get windows for dummies.... mate michael carey > Using Outlook Express, when I want to reply to a message >> I have three options: >> o Reply to Sender >> o Reply to All >> o Reply to Group >> Which of the above should I use? >> Jim === Subject: Re: News Group Message Help [to Bcc or not to Bcc -- that is some question!] First, an aside: > ROT13ed for sanity The first newsreader I ever used had rot13 built in; I wonder why I can't find any such thing in modern Thunderbird? (but I have other tools, and read it anyway). Back to the main theme: One additional situation occurs to me, in which a reply by mail might be indicated: A person appears, out of the blue, asking one question. A less than ideal reply is posted; If you arrive later, and have information which might be of true value to the OP, you have no idea whether they will continue monitoring, and if you wants to be sure that the offered help will really reach the person who needs it, without which your effort is simply wasted, a courtesy copy seems completely suitable, if not even essential. At any rate, if the OP appears sincerely interested in help, and posts an address with the inquiry, I send a courtesy copy more often than not, including any later follow-ups, if I believe the OP is really likely to benefit from the content, even though this takes a bit of extra work -- I do not, for example, use the reply all function, because which sometimes will again be published in the newsgroup, depending on news server software -- I instead take the trouble to manually copy the address into a Bcc: field, I am also happy to oblige anyone who asks for a copy, it being no additional step beyond what I ordinarily do routinely anyway. Except for that one case of the angry Opera fan posting to the wrong group, no one has either thanked me for copies nor told me not to send them, so I just go on, guided solely by my own judgment. YMMV :) === Subject: Re: News Group Message Help [to Bcc or not to Bcc -- that is some question!] > First, an aside: ROT13ed for sanity The first newsreader I ever used had rot13 built in; > I wonder why I can't find any such thing in modern Thunderbird? > (but I have other tools, and read it anyway). installed myself, though I use XNews for usenet. > Back to the main theme: group, no one has either thanked me for copies nor told me not to send > them, so I just go on, guided solely by my own judgment. Fair enough! -- Dave Boyd If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate. -Capt. Zapp Brannigan, D.O.O.P. === Subject: Re: HP 48G Series User's Guide as a PDF? > Jack Crane: > Is the HP 48G Series User's Guide available as a PDF? Dave Britten: > That appears to be the case, which I didn't expect, given the > machine's age. Might have to download a copy for myself too... > [28MB file] > http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/manualCategory?product=60713&dlc=e > n&lc=en&cc=us Another (smaller file) scan may be found at > http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3937 [19MB file] > http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/misc/hp48gug.zip Jack === Subject: Some numbers on Battery Life Yesterday have to change my first set of batteries on my new HP50G after 85 days of normal use, this mean, is 6.25% more battery life per unit on HP50G than the battery life on HP49G+. (Sad to say this is just one lecture and I have 20 on the HP49g+, statistically has no difference at 95% confidence). The only other thing I change was to run must of programs from the SD card (now a 2 GB one) rather than read them from the flash memory, according to some news on this group takes less energy to acces the SD rather than the Flash Menory) So now I don«t know if the better performance is because of the new model or the way I ran the applications. Hmmmm..... I need to do more tests to know (looking at the variation on the 49 I will need 10 battery changes or 30 months to have a significant result). Any way its a good new to know that the HP50G tend to have more battery life than the HP49G+. Has anyone tryed to know if HP50G really has better battery life than HP49G+? Not important issue, just curiousity .... Daniel === Subject: Re: Some numbers on Battery Life > Yesterday have to change my first set of batteries on my new HP50G > after 85 days of normal use, this mean, is 6.25% more battery life > per unit on HP50G than the battery life on HP49G+. (Sad to say this is just one lecture and I have 20 on the HP49g+, > statistically has no difference at 95% confidence). The only other thing I change was to run must of programs from the SD > card (now a 2 GB one) rather than read them from the flash memory, > according to some news on this group takes less energy to acces the SD > rather than the Flash Menory) So now I don«t know if the better performance is because of the new > model or the way I ran the applications. Hmmmm..... I need to do more tests to know (looking at the variation > on the 49 I will need 10 battery changes or 30 months to have a > significant result). Any way its a good new to know that the HP50G tend to have more > battery life than the HP49G+. Has anyone tryed to know if HP50G really has better battery life than > HP49G+? Not important issue, just curiousity .... Daniel Also factor in that the 50g requires 4 AAA batteries, whereas the 49g+ requires only 3 (I believe - I've not seen one in person). I'm not an EE, so I can't say how that would affect run time, but I CAN say how that would affect the cost per set. :) -Dave Britten === Subject: Re: Some numbers on Battery Life Hi On 2007-10-21 11:19:58 +1000, davidbrit2@gmail.com said: >> The only other thing I change was to run must of programs from the SD >> card (now a 2 GB one) rather than read them from the flash memory, >> according to some news on this group takes less energy to acces the SD >> rather than the Flash Menory) I'd be extremely surprised if that was the case... reading from flash use nearly nothing === Subject: Re: Some numbers on Battery Life > Hi On 2007-10-21 11:19:58 +1000, davidbrit2@gmail.com said: > The only other thing I change was to run must of programs from the SD > card (now a 2 GB one) rather than read them from the flash memory, > according to some news on this group takes less energy to acces the SD > rather than the Flash Menory) I'd be extremely surprised if that was the case... > reading from flash use nearly nothing surprise, surprise! I think Daniel was referring to this findings: What do you say now? ;-) === Subject: Re: Some numbers on Battery Life surprise, surprise! I think Daniel was referring to this findings: What do you say now? ;-) That any analysis would state that the 50g has a power consumption about 50% more than the 49g+ means that there are a problem in the machine that as tested. The 50g is pretty much identical to the 49g+ from a hardware point of view . -- They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security (Benjamin Franklin) === Subject: Re: Some numbers on Battery Life > That any analysis would state that the 50g has a power consumption about > 50% more than the 49g+ means that there are a problem in the machine that > as tested. I saw similar results when testing on multiple calculators from different production runs. I guess it is possible that there were problems with all the 50g calculators that I tested, but that would surprise me. That being said, the difference in power consumption between the SD card and the built-in flash isn't significant enough to matter. Such a small percentage of time is spent actually reading from SD/flash that I doubt there would be more than a 1% or so overall difference either way. I think the increased battery life mentioned in the original post can be explained by either too little data to be useful, or by a use of the USB cable (a recent post on the HP Museum forum suspected increased battery life on the 50g, but it was later determined to be due to frequently powering the calculator over USB). Eric Rechlin === Subject: Re: Some numbers on Battery Life hmm, but wouldnt the refresh still be ticking on the flash? negating the power savings. michael carey > Hi On 2007-10-21 11:19:58 +1000, davidbrit2@gmail.com said: > The only other thing I change was to run must of programs from the SD > card (now a 2 GB one) rather than read them from the flash memory, > according to some news on this group takes less energy to acces the SD > rather than the Flash Menory) I'd be extremely surprised if that was the case... > reading from flash use nearly nothing === Subject: Re: Some numbers on Battery Life On 2007-10-21 21:30:32 +1000, Michael said: > hmm, but wouldnt the refresh still be ticking on the flash? > negating the power savings. Refresh? Jean-Yves === Subject: Re: Some numbers on Battery Life well think of it in engergy storage terms, one battery contains so many joules. so you have an extra battery, then you have an extra storage cell. 4/3 more energy this doesnt account for any possible extra power consumptions due to a change in current draw, having said that, what i am really saying is the new model may use more power. this is really a side issue though, you can blister a pack of four battries and not have to keep an eye on the battery left over, which invariably goes in the bin. back to the amp. michael carey oh did ne one watch back to the future last night. some australian with a faulty kb > Yesterday have to change my first set of batteries on my new HP50G > after 85 days of normal use, this mean, is 6.25% more battery life > per unit on HP50G than the battery life on HP49G+. (Sad to say this is just one lecture and I have 20 on the HP49g+, > statistically has no difference at 95% confidence). The only other thing I change was to run must of programs from the SD > card (now a 2 GB one) rather than read them from the flash memory, > according to some news on this group takes less energy to acces the SD > rather than the Flash Menory) So now I don«t know if the better performance is because of the new > model or the way I ran the applications. Hmmmm..... I need to do more tests to know (looking at the variation > on the 49 I will need 10 battery changes or 30 months to have a > significant result). Any way its a good new to know that the HP50G tend to have more > battery life than the HP49G+. Has anyone tryed to know if HP50G really has better battery life than > HP49G+? Not important issue, just curiousity .... Daniel Also factor in that the 50g requires 4 AAA batteries, whereas the 49g+ requires only 3 (I believe - I've not seen one in person). I'm not an EE, so I can't say how that would affect run time, but I CAN say how that would affect the cost per set. :) -Dave Britten === Subject: Re: Some numbers on Battery Life btw not so much a faulty kb, i think someone has wormed my bios, goes to show how safe windows is.... michael carey and i know its the bios cause the setting keep changing, and yes the system time has not changed in the last few weeks so the battery is fine. > well think of it in engergy storage terms, one battery contains so many > joules. > so you have an extra battery, then you have an extra storage cell. > 4/3 more energy > this doesnt account for any possible extra power consumptions due to a > change in current draw, having said that, what i am really saying is the > new model may use more power. > this is really a side issue though, you can blister a pack of four > battries and not have to keep an eye on the battery left over, which > invariably goes in the bin. back to the amp. michael carey > oh did ne one watch back to the future last night. some australian with a faulty kb > Yesterday have to change my first set of batteries on my new HP50G >> after 85 days of normal use, this mean, is 6.25% more battery life >> per unit on HP50G than the battery life on HP49G+. >> (Sad to say this is just one lecture and I have 20 on the HP49g+, >> statistically has no difference at 95% confidence). >> The only other thing I change was to run must of programs from the SD >> card (now a 2 GB one) rather than read them from the flash memory, >> according to some news on this group takes less energy to acces the SD >> rather than the Flash Menory) >> So now I don«t know if the better performance is because of the new >> model or the way I ran the applications. >> Hmmmm..... I need to do more tests to know (looking at the variation >> on the 49 I will need 10 battery changes or 30 months to have a >> significant result). >> Any way its a good new to know that the HP50G tend to have more >> battery life than the HP49G+. >> Has anyone tryed to know if HP50G really has better battery life than >> HP49G+? Not important issue, just curiousity .... >> Daniel Also factor in that the 50g requires 4 AAA batteries, whereas the 49g+ > requires only 3 (I believe - I've not seen one in person). I'm not an > EE, so I can't say how that would affect run time, but I CAN say how > that would affect the cost per set. :) -Dave Britten === Subject: Computer Security Information I Want To Share Computer Security Information To All Internet Netter: 1. Firewalls Torn Apart 2. Guide To Social Engineering 3. Social Engineering And Email Account Cracking 4. Network Firewall Security 5. Hijacking Hotmail Accounts For Newbies 6. Various Ways To Hack Or Over Ride Foolproof 7. Configuring ZoneAlarm Securely 8. IP Masquerading Tutorial 9. Interesting Things You Didnt Know About Your Computers Hardware 10. Advanced Number Systems Made Easy 11. Hacking Dictionary 12. Hacking The Bios 13. DNS The What The How And The Why 14. Exploit Mihirs Guide To Inserting Logo To System Properties 15. Getting Geographical Information Using An IP Address 16. Create A Lightweight E Mailer 17. Telnet Explained 18. Installing A Webserver For NewbiesI 19. The IP Address 20. Being A Hacker On The Meaning Of Being A Hacker 21. Well Known Port Numbers 22. Samba How To 23. Removing Banners 24. Port Numbers Part 1 25. Port Numbers Part 2 26. Port Numbers Part 3 27. Port Numbers Part 4 28. Port Numbers Part 5 29. Port Numbers Part 6 30. Port Numbers Part 7 31. Port Numbers Part 8 32. Port Numbers Part 9 33. The OSI Model 34. The Basic Elements Of Cracking 35. Beginners Step By Step Security Guide 36. Linking Rules For Hacking And Other Alternative Websites 37. Installing A Webserver For Newbies 38. Glossary 39. Wireless Security And Hacking 40. Wireless Network 41. Demystifying Remote Host Part 1 42. Exploiting Design Flaws In The Win32 API For Privilege Escalation 43. Wireless LAN Technologies and Windows XP 44. Understanding NetBIOS 45. The Complete Guide To Computers 46. Things You Need 47. How To Clear The Past Mapped Network Drives List 49. Msn Tutorial Ugw Securtiy Information Base 50. The Basics Of Cryptography 51. PGP Encryption For Beginners Learn How PGP Works 52. Cryptography FAQ 53. Cryptography Split Wide Open 54. W2K File System 55. A More Indepth Article About The Basics To Encryption 56. Protecting Your Scripts 57. Breaking Script Encoder 58. Windows 2000 Encrypting File System And Disk Wipe Software Vulnerability 59. Buffer Overflow Basics 60. Deadly Dos Attack 61. MS Office XP The More Money I Give To Microsoft The More Vulnerable My Windows Computers Are 62. Dos Attacks Explained 63. Introduction To Denial Of Service 64. Miscellaneous Groups Publications 65. Documents About General Hardening 66. Documents About Unix Hardening 67. Basic Steps To Hardening A Standalone Windows 2000 Installation 68. Setting Up IIS And Securing Streamed Content 69. Articles On How To Securing Hardening BSD 70. Step By Step Guide To Secure Win2k 71. Documents About Windows9x ME Hardening 72. Documents About General Hardening 73. Securing Your Web Pages With Apache 74. Documents About Windows9x ME Hardening 75. Documents About IIS Hardening Securing 76. Basic Steps To Hardening A Standalone Windows 2000 Installation 77. Excellent Analysis Of The ICQ Trojans 78. The ICQ Security Tutorial 79. Backing Up Your ICQ Contact List And Settings 80. Hijacking ICQ Accounts in Spanish 81. ICQ Password Stealing Tutorial 82. The ICQ Password Securing Tutorial 83. Hijacking ICQ Accounts 84. Back Door Infecting Guide 85. Security Home 86. Get ICQ Passwords Using Share Programms 87. Snort On Windows 98/ME/NT4/2000 Using Mysql And Acid 88. Eggdrop Bots Tutorial Written by The Cyber God 89. Eggdrop Bots Tutorial 90. Getting Passwords Of Nicks In mIRC 91. IRC Spoofing 92. The IRC Warfare Tutorial Written 93. IRC Trading Security 94. Getting Passwords Of Nicks In mIRC 95. IRC Basic Commands 96. Never Be Banned In IRC 97. IRC FAQ Undergroundworld de vu the Secure-Net Search Lab 98. A Better Way To Get Hotmail Passwords - A Little Helpful Program With A Short Tutorial 99. Newbie Keyloggers Toturial - How To Disable The Keyloggers 100. Tutorial To Make Your Folder (Any ) Secure And Inaccessible By Others Without Using Any Program 101. A Trick To Get Access To Control Panel As A Restricted Network User On Windows XP And 2000 103. Getting Rid Of The Urls You Visited In The Url Bar Of IE 104. Exploring Windows 105. Create Your Own Logon Message 106. MSN Mesenger Tip 107. Writing MBR When Norton Antivirus2002 Has Auto-Protection Enable 108. Trick on CNN.COM or tricking minds via cnn.com 109. Access The Blocked Folder In WinNt 110. Various Methods Of Hacking Hotmail 111. Writing Bootable CD's With Nero Administrator 113. How To Change Product Key In XP With No Re-Install 114. No More Popups 115. Tips And Tricks On Burning 116. The Elite Symbols 117. Windows Xp Product Key Modifier 118. Hacking Hotmail 119. Kazaa As A Annonymous Emailer 120. Cracking Unix Password Files For Beginners 121. Exploiting Cisco Systems 122. Cracking Unix Password Files For Beginners 123. Poor Security On Default Windows 2000 Server Installation Could Lead To Unauthorized Database Access 124. Remote Control Of IIS Windows 125. How To Become A Hacker Source: http://www.security.fx-vista.com === Subject: Re: hpgcc and arm-elf toolchain for MacOS and now linux Hi I have updated the Mac package to use gcc 4.2.2 ; binaries are now stripped which saves about 20MB I've also updated a toolchain package for linux (tested on Fedora Core 6 and RHEL 5). This package provides the same files as the mac: that is: -binutils 2.17 -gcc 4.2.2 (c and c++ compiler) -newlib 1.15 -ELFIO 1.0.3 It has all the libraries required to compile C++, as well as the standard C library and math library (libm), for both arm and thumb, hard-float and soft-float download location is: http://www.hydrix.com/Download/Hp/hpgcc/ The linux archive needs to be untar in the root directory (full path is /opt/arm-hp) To do so, run the following command line: tar jxvfP arm-elf-toolchain.4.2.2.linux.tar.bz2 you need to be root (or use sudo)... You can extract the file somewhere else, in which case you'll need to modify all the Makefiles in hpgcc/examples directory as it uses absolute path. To change all the Makefile, you can use this script postupgrade.sh newprefix run this script in the hpgcc/examples directory The hpgcc libraries (for both ARM and Thumb) on Linux can also be used on Windows or Mac or any machine supporting ELF for that matter. It can be useful for those not wanting to use thumb mode. Hope this helps Jean-Yves --- #!/bin/sh # postupgrade.sh # # # Created by Jean-Yves Avenard on 12/10/07. # Copyright 2007 Hydrix Pty Ltd All rights reserved. FILES=benchmarks/Makefile benchmarks/scimark/Makefile decnumber/Chudnovsky/Make file decnumber/matrix/Makefile decnumber/RSA/Makefile decnumber/sqrt2/Makefile f system/Makefile games/Makefile hump/Makefile Makefile ARG=`echo $1 | sed -e 's/////g'` for i in `echo $FILES`; do sed -E s/PREFIX=.*$/PREFIX=${ARG}/g $1/hpgcc/examples/$i > /tmp/tmp2807 mv /tmp/tmp2807 $1/hpgcc/examples/$i done -- They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security (Benjamin Franklin) === Subject: Can I get back my code? (HPGCC Related) Hello All, I know that I am in hopeless situation and I know that it may not be possible but I just have to ask, in order to be sure. During back-up, I accidently deleted my C code, which I was working on for some time, but I still have my *.hp, *.o and *.bin files. Is there a way to obtain the C code from these 3 files? (I hope you don't misunderstand me, the code is mine and my name is displayed when you run the code from HP 49G+ or 50G machines) Onur === Subject: .Debug Can anyone explain why DEBUG is not progammable as an example:- << 4 7 + >> FG STO << FG DEBUG >> is not possble === Subject: Re: .Debug > Can anyone explain why DEBUG is not progammable as an example:- << 4 7 + > FG > STO << FG DEBUG >> is not possble I feel I have solved the problem with Wes' help namely << 4 7 + >> FG STO << 'FG' 41 MENU>> FGDEBUG STO or EVAL === Subject: Re: .Debug > Can anyone explain why DEBUG is not progammable as an example:- << 4 7 + > FG > STO << FG DEBUG >> is not possble Try << 'FG' DBUG >> -wes === Subject: =DOFALSE bug? in ROM 2.09 Check the routine =DOFALSE in *real* calculator 50g... My calculator (with ROM 2.09) says: =DOFALSE BUSCC GOC OverWrFLoop A=A+B X A=C A PC=(A) this is ok?... I believe that not... - Gaak.org - === Subject: Re: =DOFALSE bug? in ROM 2.09 On 2007-10-19 02:50:35 +1000, GaaK said: > Check the routine =DOFALSE in *real* calculator 50g... > My calculator (with ROM 2.09) says: > =DOFALSE > BUSCC > GOC OverWrFLoop > A=A+B X > A=C A > PC=(A) > That's because on a real calculator, many instructions have been replaced by new opcodes running native ARM code. DOFALSE is one of them ... Jean-Yves -- They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security (Benjamin Franklin) === Subject: Re: =DOFALSE bug? in ROM 2.09 > That's because on a real calculator, > many instructions have been replaced by new opcodes > running native ARM code. > > DOFALSE is one of them ... The new instructions (seen by Nosy) are still Saturn CPU instructions which either previously didn't exist or were not used. When the ARM-based emulator sees these instructions, it performs the new extended feature of the virtual Saturn CPU, using native ARM code in the on-board emulator, rather than in the region of ROM seen by Nosy The latest originally compiled ROM will work on a real Saturn CPU (that's why it works in an emulator of the real Saturn, or on a real 49G), but the instruction replacements made to load into the new calculators can execute some common functions even faster, by duplicating them in pure ARM code (look at MOVEUP, MOVEDOWN, etc. in emulator vs. 49G+/50G). A number of people have asked whether HP is going to rewrite the entire original Saturn ROM to use just pure ARM code; although that level of total transformation seems out of the question, the particular common operations which have already been effectively moved down into the emulator, and are already executed in pure ARM code, are already making the real calculator go even faster than if it only emulated each Saturn instruction individually. One could theorize about taking this further, looking for more of the most common operations to divert into the emulator, but probably more attention is going into completely different directions, such as HPGCC and perhaps new products (how about an HP-Phone with every previous HP calculator built in? :) -=-=-=- === Subject: Re: =DOFALSE bug? in ROM 2.09 > Check the routine =DOFALSE [#35259h] in *real* calculator 50g... > My calculator (with ROM 2.09) says: Do you mean, what Nosy thinks it sees? > =DOFALSE > BUSCC > GOC OverWrFLoop > A=A+B X > A=C A > PC=(A) > > this is ok?... I believe that not... How about FALSE [#03AC0h] ? Comparing emulator to ARM ROM, one sees that Nosy gets temporarily confused. Some common Saturn instruction sequences are replaced (overlaid) in ARM ROM to speed up execution, often leaving a fragment which Nosy can't understand. It's conceivable that somewhere a wrong overlay could have been made, although in 2.09 it is more common that overlays were missed where they should have been made (the former could cause bugs or prove fatal, but the latter only fails to shorten execution time where savings could have been made). Is there an example of code which works in emulator but fails in calculator? -=-=-=- === Subject: HHC2007 Commemorative HP Calculator Calendar Status For those who ordered HHC2007 calendars, the first 37 have been shipped, which is all the extra we had after the San Diego conference concluded. Another 50 have been printed and shipped to me, which I expect to have in a few days for filling additional orders. If you have not yet received an email from me indicating that your calender has been shipped, your order should be filled within the next couple of days. There are still around 30 more available from this new batch which have not yet been ordered. Currently, we have no intention to print any more after that. If you have any interest in obtaining a calendar, please consult http://holyjoe.net/hhc2007/hhc2007%20calendar.htm . Jake Schwartz === === === Subject: C.H.E.A.P....C.I.G.A.R.E.T.T.E.S.....0y1mq5Urbmwb I has found some sites with cheap marlboro cigarettes with delivery to usa and europe: her dust was sticky, abysmal, and covers through the ventilator Do not reject sadly while you're arriving for a sour desk. Where does Murray kick so wanly, whenever Priscilla grasps the strange printer very strangely? Sometimes, go tease a fig! You won't taste me attacking before your difficult doorway. I judge rigidly if Eliza's puddle isn't rich. Who dreams lovingly, when Courtney helps the solid coffee about the street? The papers, yogis, and stickers are all light and clean. I was calling cobblers to bad Charlene, who's killing below the cup's window. A lot of sick bizarre walnut smells porters in Genevieve's thin bush. 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Just now, it seeks a floor too bitter beside her closed bedroom. It should virtually irritate over Ronette when the new bandages walk beneath the weak hill. Some dogs move, fear, and wander. Others weekly fill. All hot kettles against the sweet hallway were improving around the handsome planet. I was climbing to open you some of my hollow doses. Why did Yolanda dye the carrot under the kind butcher? He may move angry lemons through the pretty fresh fire, whilst Simon biweekly arrives them too. Don't try to pour a ointment! Rickie fills the pear alongside hers and monthly teases. === === === Subject: HP 48G Series User's Guide as a PDF? Is the HP 48G Series User's Guide available as a PDF? Jack Crane === Subject: Re: HP 48G Series User's Guide as a PDF? > Is the HP 48G Series User's Guide available as a PDF? > Jack Crane That appears to be the case, which I didn't expect, given the machine's age. Might have to download a copy for myself too... http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/manualCategory?product=60713&lc=en&cc=us& dlc=en&lang=en&cc=us -Dave Britten === Subject: Re: HP 48G Series User's Guide as a PDF? Jack Crane: > Is the HP 48G Series User's Guide available as a PDF? Dave Britten: > That appears to be the case, which I didn't expect, given the > machine's age. Might have to download a copy for myself too... > [28MB file] > http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/manualCategory?product=60713&dlc=en&lc=en& cc=us Another (smaller file) scan may be found at http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3937 [19MB file] http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/misc/hp48gug.zip -=-=-=- === Subject: Re: HP 48G Series User's Guide as a PDF? <4718DF5E.1090600@nyet.nyet > Is the HP 48G Series User's Guide available as a PDF? Another (smaller file) scan may be found at http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3937 http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/misc/hp48gug.zip > The two HP48 manual versions mentioned are both scans, which means you can't use the Search function in Adobe Reader. HP's version is inferior in sharpness to Eric's scan on hpcalc (and while you're at hpcalc, there's also a scan of the HP48 Advanced User's Reference). The HP49/50 manuals are slowly coming together, but for basics it's hard to beat the HP48 books. Bill === Subject: News Group Message Help Using Outlook Express, when I want to reply to a message I have three options: o Reply to Sender o Reply to All o Reply to Group Which of the above should I use? Jim === Subject: Re: News Group Message Help > Using Outlook Express, when I want to reply to a message > I have three options: o Reply to Sender > o Reply to All > o Reply to Group Which of the above should I use? Reply to Group, usually (in fact almost always), if you are joining a conversation. Reply to Sender only for replies that you want kept private. Most of the time, it's only polite to respond to a public question with a public answer; the idea of Usenet is that the messages are presumed to be of value to many readers, so private replies are not indicated. (Also, some people see this action as an invasion of privacy; be wary of offending these people. The thinking is usually along the lines of I didn't invite you into my mailbox. If you have something to say, say it in public. In general it's best to avoid the issue.) I can't think of any particularly good reason to use reply to all, unless the reply is vital and the poster's usenet access is very spotty, or something similar. -- Dave Boyd If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate. -Capt. Zapp Brannigan, D.O.O.P. === Subject: Re: News Group Message Help > Reply to Sender only for replies that you want kept private. Most of > the time, it's only polite to respond to a public question with a public > answer; the idea of Usenet is that the messages are presumed to be of > value to many readers, so private replies are not indicated. > > (Also, some people see this action as an invasion of privacy; be wary of > offending these people. The thinking is usually along the lines of I > didn't invite you into my mailbox. If you have something to say, say it > in public. In general it's best to avoid the issue.) > > I can't think of any particularly good reason to use reply to all, > unless the reply is vital and the poster's usenet access is very spotty, > or something similar. At one time, replying by both post and mail was called sending a courtesy copy by email; some people even ask for it, because they don't want to have to visit every newsgroup all the time, to look for replies. Nowadays, anyone who doesn't want any email (except when using Google Groups) can use an obviously invalid address (such as I am doing); others may say to email me, drop the 'not' from my address -- certainly anyone who either asks for or makes it obvious to everyone how to send mail is unlikely to be offended if you actually do. I have encountered an offended person exactly once, when I replied to someone posting a series of messages about an operatic singer in an Opera web browser group; I thought it might be helpful to all to offer a hint that these were reaching the wrong audience, but the only result was a flame, quenched anyway by flame-retarding armor :) -=-=-=- === Subject: Re: News Group Message Help > At one time, replying by both post and mail was called sending a > courtesy copy by email; some people even ask for it, because they > don't want to have to visit every newsgroup all the time, to look for > replies. Seen it many times. I'm a purist in this regard... If you ask a group for help, it's rude to ask the group to reply directly to you -- it's lazy and implies that you don't care if the answer is propogated further as long as you get it. This is just one of the MANY ways I can be a pedantic jerk, of course. ;) > Nowadays, anyone who doesn't want any email (except when using Google > Groups) can use an obviously invalid address (such as I am doing); > others may say to email me, drop the 'not' from my address -- > certainly anyone who either asks for or makes it obvious to everyone > how to send mail is unlikely to be offended if you actually do. I have encountered an offended person exactly once, > when I replied to someone posting a series of messages about > an operatic singer in an Opera web browser group; > I thought it might be helpful to all to offer a hint > that these were reaching the wrong audience, > but the only result was a flame, > quenched anyway by flame-retarding armor :) Possibly I have read groups with more sensitive posters than you have. I've seen it several times. Sometimes the accusation of stalker is flung about. Personally, I don't care if I get email, and I don't bother to munge my address -- V pbafvqre fcnz svygrevat gb or yvxr na vzzhar flfgrz, naq V yvxr gb rkcbfr zl vaobk gb xrrc hc zl qrsrafrf. <==ROT13ed for sanity -- Dave Boyd If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate. -Capt. Zapp Brannigan, D.O.O.P. === Subject: Re: News Group Message Help > Using Outlook Express, when I want to reply to a message > I have three options: > > o Reply to Sender > o Reply to All > o Reply to Group > > Which of the above should I use? Reply [to] All means both posting to the newsgroup (via NNTP protocol, to your news server) and to the sender (via email through your SMTP server), thus including the other two options; use whichever matches your intentions. -=-=-=- 1002 === Subject: Re: =DOFALSE bug? in ROM 2.09 > One of many old threads about these virtual opcodes Historical (original Saturn): http://www.raclot.org/dev/hpcalc/hp48/saturn/mnemonics.html Modern (ARM-emulated Saturn): Unrelated, but maybe interesting (would you like a pocket guide to HP49/50?) http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/ -=-=-=- === Subject: Re: News Group Message Help Seen it many times. I'm a purist in this regard... If you ask a group > for help, it's rude to ask the group to reply directly to you -- it's > lazy and implies that you don't care if the answer is propogated further > as long as you get it. This is just one of the MANY ways I can be a pedantic jerk, of course. ;) I wouldn't call it being a jerk. Usenet is not a support desk, so asking people to reply to you personally is out of line. - Kurt === Subject: Re: News Group Message Help > Usenet is not a support desk It isn't? > so asking people to reply to you personally is out of line. Most everything I've seen on Usenet could be pigeonholed as: o Get (and give) help and support. o Chat (like in a local pub, meet people, etc.) o Vent frustration, anger, fight, etc. (like in a pub :) Add anything I've missed. Of course, it's done in public, so that all lurkers may watch, and receive vicarious benefit (or entertainment), if not actually participating. -=-=-=- === Subject: Re: News Group Message Help get windows for dummies.... mate michael carey > Using Outlook Express, when I want to reply to a message > I have three options: o Reply to Sender > o Reply to All > o Reply to Group Which of the above should I use? > Jim === Subject: Re: News Group Message Help I've been using Windows since 3.0, just never participated in a newsgroup, mate. As a laugh, I received two copies of my last message in my mailbox. Jim > get windows for dummies.... mate michael carey > Using Outlook Express, when I want to reply to a message >> I have three options: >> o Reply to Sender >> o Reply to All >> o Reply to Group >> Which of the above should I use? >> Jim === Subject: Re: News Group Message Help [to Bcc or not to Bcc -- that is some question!] First, an aside: > ROT13ed for sanity The first newsreader I ever used had rot13 built in; I wonder why I can't find any such thing in modern Thunderbird? (but I have other tools, and read it anyway). Back to the main theme: One additional situation occurs to me, in which a reply by mail might be indicated: A person appears, out of the blue, asking one question. A less than ideal reply is posted; If you arrive later, and have information which might be of true value to the OP, you have no idea whether they will continue monitoring, and if you wants to be sure that the offered help will really reach the person who needs it, without which your effort is simply wasted, a courtesy copy seems completely suitable, if not even essential. At any rate, if the OP appears sincerely interested in help, and posts an address with the inquiry, I send a courtesy copy more often than not, including any later follow-ups, if I believe the OP is really likely to benefit from the content, even though this takes a bit of extra work -- I do not, for example, use the reply all function, because which sometimes will again be published in the newsgroup, depending on news server software -- I instead take the trouble to manually copy the address into a Bcc: field, I am also happy to oblige anyone who asks for a copy, it being no additional step beyond what I ordinarily do routinely anyway. Except for that one case of the angry Opera fan posting to the wrong group, no one has either thanked me for copies nor told me not to send them, so I just go on, guided solely by my own judgment. YMMV :) === Subject: Re: News Group Message Help [to Bcc or not to Bcc -- that is some question!] > First, an aside: ROT13ed for sanity The first newsreader I ever used had rot13 built in; > I wonder why I can't find any such thing in modern Thunderbird? > (but I have other tools, and read it anyway). installed myself, though I use XNews for usenet. > Back to the main theme: group, no one has either thanked me for copies nor told me not to send > them, so I just go on, guided solely by my own judgment. Fair enough! -- Dave Boyd If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate. -Capt. Zapp Brannigan, D.O.O.P. === Subject: Re: HP 48G Series User's Guide as a PDF? > Jack Crane: > Is the HP 48G Series User's Guide available as a PDF? Dave Britten: > That appears to be the case, which I didn't expect, given the > machine's age. Might have to download a copy for myself too... > [28MB file] > http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/manualCategory?product=60713&dlc=e > n&lc=en&cc=us Another (smaller file) scan may be found at > http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3937 [19MB file] > http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/misc/hp48gug.zip Jack === Subject: Some numbers on Battery Life Yesterday have to change my first set of batteries on my new HP50G after 85 days of normal use, this mean, is 6.25% more battery life per unit on HP50G than the battery life on HP49G+. (Sad to say this is just one lecture and I have 20 on the HP49g+, statistically has no difference at 95% confidence). The only other thing I change was to run must of programs from the SD card (now a 2 GB one) rather than read them from the flash memory, according to some news on this group takes less energy to acces the SD rather than the Flash Menory) So now I don«t know if the better performance is because of the new model or the way I ran the applications. Hmmmm..... I need to do more tests to know (looking at the variation on the 49 I will need 10 battery changes or 30 months to have a significant result). Any way its a good new to know that the HP50G tend to have more battery life than the HP49G+. Has anyone tryed to know if HP50G really has better battery life than HP49G+? Not important issue, just curiousity .... Daniel === Subject: Re: Some numbers on Battery Life > Yesterday have to change my first set of batteries on my new HP50G > after 85 days of normal use, this mean, is 6.25% more battery life > per unit on HP50G than the battery life on HP49G+. (Sad to say this is just one lecture and I have 20 on the HP49g+, > statistically has no difference at 95% confidence). The only other thing I change was to run must of programs from the SD > card (now a 2 GB one) rather than read them from the flash memory, > according to some news on this group takes less energy to acces the SD > rather than the Flash Menory) So now I don«t know if the better performance is because of the new > model or the way I ran the applications. Hmmmm..... I need to do more tests to know (looking at the variation > on the 49 I will need 10 battery changes or 30 months to have a > significant result). Any way its a good new to know that the HP50G tend to have more > battery life than the HP49G+. Has anyone tryed to know if HP50G really has better battery life than > HP49G+? Not important issue, just curiousity .... Daniel Also factor in that the 50g requires 4 AAA batteries, whereas the 49g+ requires only 3 (I believe - I've not seen one in person). I'm not an EE, so I can't say how that would affect run time, but I CAN say how that would affect the cost per set. :) -Dave Britten === Subject: Re: Some numbers on Battery Life Hi On 2007-10-21 11:19:58 +1000, davidbrit2@gmail.com said: >> The only other thing I change was to run must of programs from the SD >> card (now a 2 GB one) rather than read them from the flash memory, >> according to some news on this group takes less energy to acces the SD >> rather than the Flash Menory) I'd be extremely surprised if that was the case... reading from flash use nearly nothing === Subject: Re: Some numbers on Battery Life > Hi On 2007-10-21 11:19:58 +1000, davidbrit2@gmail.com said: > The only other thing I change was to run must of programs from the SD > card (now a 2 GB one) rather than read them from the flash memory, > according to some news on this group takes less energy to acces the SD > rather than the Flash Menory) I'd be extremely surprised if that was the case... > reading from flash use nearly nothing surprise, surprise! I think Daniel was referring to this findings: What do you say now? ;-) === Subject: Re: Some numbers on Battery Life surprise, surprise! I think Daniel was referring to this findings: What do you say now? ;-) That any analysis would state that the 50g has a power consumption about 50% more than the 49g+ means that there are a problem in the machine that as tested. The 50g is pretty much identical to the 49g+ from a hardware point of view . -- They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security (Benjamin Franklin) === Subject: Re: Some numbers on Battery Life > That any analysis would state that the 50g has a power consumption about > 50% more than the 49g+ means that there are a problem in the machine that > as tested. I saw similar results when testing on multiple calculators from different production runs. I guess it is possible that there were problems with all the 50g calculators that I tested, but that would surprise me. That being said, the difference in power consumption between the SD card and the built-in flash isn't significant enough to matter. Such a small percentage of time is spent actually reading from SD/flash that I doubt there would be more than a 1% or so overall difference either way. I think the increased battery life mentioned in the original post can be explained by either too little data to be useful, or by a use of the USB cable (a recent post on the HP Museum forum suspected increased battery life on the 50g, but it was later determined to be due to frequently powering the calculator over USB). Eric Rechlin === Subject: Re: Some numbers on Battery Life hmm, but wouldnt the refresh still be ticking on the flash? negating the power savings. michael carey > Hi On 2007-10-21 11:19:58 +1000, davidbrit2@gmail.com said: > The only other thing I change was to run must of programs from the SD > card (now a 2 GB one) rather than read them from the flash memory, > according to some news on this group takes less energy to acces the SD > rather than the Flash Menory) I'd be extremely surprised if that was the case... > reading from flash use nearly nothing === Subject: Re: Some numbers on Battery Life On 2007-10-21 21:30:32 +1000, Michael said: > hmm, but wouldnt the refresh still be ticking on the flash? > negating the power savings. Refresh? Jean-Yves === Subject: Re: Some numbers on Battery Life well think of it in engergy storage terms, one battery contains so many joules. so you have an extra battery, then you have an extra storage cell. 4/3 more energy this doesnt account for any possible extra power consumptions due to a change in current draw, having said that, what i am really saying is the new model may use more power. this is really a side issue though, you can blister a pack of four battries and not have to keep an eye on the battery left over, which invariably goes in the bin. back to the amp. michael carey oh did ne one watch back to the future last night. some australian with a faulty kb > Yesterday have to change my first set of batteries on my new HP50G > after 85 days of normal use, this mean, is 6.25% more battery life > per unit on HP50G than the battery life on HP49G+. (Sad to say this is just one lecture and I have 20 on the HP49g+, > statistically has no difference at 95% confidence). The only other thing I change was to run must of programs from the SD > card (now a 2 GB one) rather than read them from the flash memory, > according to some news on this group takes less energy to acces the SD > rather than the Flash Menory) So now I don«t know if the better performance is because of the new > model or the way I ran the applications. Hmmmm..... I need to do more tests to know (looking at the variation > on the 49 I will need 10 battery changes or 30 months to have a > significant result). Any way its a good new to know that the HP50G tend to have more > battery life than the HP49G+. Has anyone tryed to know if HP50G really has better battery life than > HP49G+? Not important issue, just curiousity .... Daniel Also factor in that the 50g requires 4 AAA batteries, whereas the 49g+ requires only 3 (I believe - I've not seen one in person). I'm not an EE, so I can't say how that would affect run time, but I CAN say how that would affect the cost per set. :) -Dave Britten === Subject: Re: Some numbers on Battery Life btw not so much a faulty kb, i think someone has wormed my bios, goes to show how safe windows is.... michael carey and i know its the bios cause the setting keep changing, and yes the system time has not changed in the last few weeks so the battery is fine. > well think of it in engergy storage terms, one battery contains so many > joules. > so you have an extra battery, then you have an extra storage cell. > 4/3 more energy > this doesnt account for any possible extra power consumptions due to a > change in current draw, having said that, what i am really saying is the > new model may use more power. > this is really a side issue though, you can blister a pack of four > battries and not have to keep an eye on the battery left over, which > invariably goes in the bin. back to the amp. michael carey > oh did ne one watch back to the future last night. some australian with a faulty kb > Yesterday have to change my first set of batteries on my new HP50G >> after 85 days of normal use, this mean, is 6.25% more battery life >> per unit on HP50G than the battery life on HP49G+. >> (Sad to say this is just one lecture and I have 20 on the HP49g+, >> statistically has no difference at 95% confidence). >> The only other thing I change was to run must of programs from the SD >> card (now a 2 GB one) rather than read them from the flash memory, >> according to some news on this group takes less energy to acces the SD >> rather than the Flash Menory) >> So now I don«t know if the better performance is because of the new >> model or the way I ran the applications. >> Hmmmm..... I need to do more tests to know (looking at the variation >> on the 49 I will need 10 battery changes or 30 months to have a >> significant result). >> Any way its a good new to know that the HP50G tend to have more >> battery life than the HP49G+. >> Has anyone tryed to know if HP50G really has better battery life than >> HP49G+? Not important issue, just curiousity .... >> Daniel Also factor in that the 50g requires 4 AAA batteries, whereas the 49g+ > requires only 3 (I believe - I've not seen one in person). I'm not an > EE, so I can't say how that would affect run time, but I CAN say how > that would affect the cost per set. :) -Dave Britten === Subject: Computer Security Information I Want To Share Computer Security Information To All Internet Netter: 1. Firewalls Torn Apart 2. Guide To Social Engineering 3. Social Engineering And Email Account Cracking 4. Network Firewall Security 5. Hijacking Hotmail Accounts For Newbies 6. Various Ways To Hack Or Over Ride Foolproof 7. 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This package provides the same files as the mac: that is: -binutils 2.17 -gcc 4.2.2 (c and c++ compiler) -newlib 1.15 -ELFIO 1.0.3 It has all the libraries required to compile C++, as well as the standard C library and math library (libm), for both arm and thumb, hard-float and soft-float download location is: http://www.hydrix.com/Download/Hp/hpgcc/ The linux archive needs to be untar in the root directory (full path is /opt/arm-hp) To do so, run the following command line: tar jxvfP arm-elf-toolchain.4.2.2.linux.tar.bz2 you need to be root (or use sudo)... You can extract the file somewhere else, in which case you'll need to modify all the Makefiles in hpgcc/examples directory as it uses absolute path. To change all the Makefile, you can use this script postupgrade.sh newprefix run this script in the hpgcc/examples directory The hpgcc libraries (for both ARM and Thumb) on Linux can also be used on Windows or Mac or any machine supporting ELF for that matter. It can be useful for those not wanting to use thumb mode. Hope this helps Jean-Yves --- #!/bin/sh # postupgrade.sh # # # Created by Jean-Yves Avenard on 12/10/07. # Copyright 2007 Hydrix Pty Ltd All rights reserved. FILES=benchmarks/Makefile benchmarks/scimark/Makefile decnumber/Chudnovsky/Make file decnumber/matrix/Makefile decnumber/RSA/Makefile decnumber/sqrt2/Makefile f system/Makefile games/Makefile hump/Makefile Makefile ARG=`echo $1 | sed -e 's/////g'` for i in `echo $FILES`; do sed -E s/PREFIX=.*$/PREFIX=${ARG}/g $1/hpgcc/examples/$i > /tmp/tmp2807 mv /tmp/tmp2807 $1/hpgcc/examples/$i done -- They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security (Benjamin Franklin) === Subject: Can I get back my code? (HPGCC Related) Hello All, I know that I am in hopeless situation and I know that it may not be possible but I just have to ask, in order to be sure. During back-up, I accidently deleted my C code, which I was working on for some time, but I still have my *.hp, *.o and *.bin files. Is there a way to obtain the C code from these 3 files? (I hope you don't misunderstand me, the code is mine and my name is displayed when you run the code from HP 49G+ or 50G machines) Onur === Subject: HP 65sx Since the HP-65 was also a huge a milestone for hand-held calculators, I wonder if HP has plans to release a retro version if that. Of course it would need to have offline storage, like the original. Perhaps a microSD or miniSD card. For the display, OLED in red might be interesting for a retro look with a modern twist. === Subject: Re: HP 65sx > Since the HP-65 was also a huge a milestone for hand-held calculators, I > wonder if HP has plans to release a retro version if that. Of course it > would need to have offline storage, like the original. Perhaps a microSD or > miniSD card. For the display, OLED in red might be interesting for a retro > look with a modern twist. I hope so but do not think that the 35s is truly retro other than in looks. Certainly it's capabilities far exceed the original calculator's. It is a update of the 33s in most respects with someone who was familiar with user ergonomics and RPN involved in the mechanical layout and colors, thank heavens. The 33s was a stylists designed calculator with lousy ergonomic design. All looks and no go ;-) I would love to see what you are talking about as it would also fit my ideas for a truly advanced RPN calculator with 42S level programming capabilities, or beyond, and both storage and communication capabilities. Rich W === Subject: Re: Connecting the 50G to the internet I was playing around with a few programs and noticed a couple things. First, ircprime almost always times out instantly when sending a command. I'm using the version 0.01 from hpcalc.org, but it looks like there might have been a newer version available on hp-sources.com before it disappeared. The second thing I noticed is that navigator 0.08+ has a few lines of garbage on the bottom of the display. Here is an example: http://mancubus.net/~exp/files/garbage.jpg === Subject: Re: Connecting the 50G to the internet Brandon Del Bel <> schrieb im Newsbeitrag >[..] > The second thing I noticed is that navigator > 0.08+ has a few lines of garbage on the bottom of the display. Here is > an example: http://mancubus.net/~exp/files/garbage.jpg > Remember that most software was written before the 49g+/50g came out, and so most software doesn't make use of the extra pixel lines. Raymond === Subject: Re: Connecting the 50G to the internet The second thing I noticed is that navigator > 0.08+ has a few lines of garbage on the bottom of the display. Here is > an example:http://mancubus.net/~exp/files/garbage.jpg Remember that most software was written before the 49g+/50g came out, > and so most software doesn't make use of the extra pixel lines. Raymond I understand that most of the software wasn't intended for the larger display, but the description for version 0.08+ on hpcalc.org says This version is for the 49G+ and 50G only, because it uses the entire 131x80 display. === Subject: Re: Connecting the 50G to the internet Brandon Del Bel <> schrieb im Newsbeitrag >> Brandon Del Bel <> schrieb im >> The second thing I noticed is that navigator >> 0.08+ has a few lines of garbage on the bottom of the display. Here is >> an example:http://mancubus.net/~exp/files/garbage.jpg >> Remember that most software was written before the 49g+/50g came out, >> and so most software doesn't make use of the extra pixel lines. >> Raymond I understand that most of the software wasn't intended for the larger > display, but the description for version 0.08+ on hpcalc.org says > This version is for the 49G+ and 50G only, because it uses the entire > 131x80 display. > Hmm, then there's something which doesn't match, be it either the description or the program itself;-) === Subject: Re: Anyone knowing PPC-Danmark here ? Jake Schwartz a .8ecrit >> Is this what you need? >> http://www.waterw.com/~jakes/ppccdrom.htm >> > That wouldn't be it, since the PPC CD ROMs only cover the U.S., > British and Australian newsletters/journals. Yes, I'm looking for Danmark issue of USER.... === Subject: Re: Beats, the Poetry and Beauty of Existence <13e1iuk4lg8sh65@corp.supernews.com> <13e404pacnd5932@corp.supernews.com > Especially since it is for display on a TINY screen. If I remember > right, the GPS sat positions don't change a whole lot, correct? So if > I code something up will it still be mostly correct in a year or > two? I know I'd need the ability to turn off broken sats, but that > isn't a big issue really. I don't know if they do any station keeping - I imagine so because they > need to work as a constellation. I'd update at least monthly (more on that > later). This is what I would probably do. Grab two-line element sets directly from > the celestrak.com website. Convert the norad element sets to standard > Keplerian element sets. Right there, that costs you about 10 to 15 km in > accuracy (not much for a satellite that is 20,000 km away). Then, propagate > those orbits with the simple two-body propagator. I did a quick check, and > after a month, a typical GPS satellite (circular, period of about 12 hours, > inclined about 55 degrees) would be off by about 230 km compared to the > NORAD propagator. And, since the NORAD propagator (SGP4) is not all that > accurate, you can expect it to be off by about 40 km after 30 days. So, > after a month, you could expect the satelite to be off by maybe 300 km, > which for basic stuff, isn't so bad when compared to how far away the > satellite is. Since it is on a 12 hour orbit, and moves slowly with respect > to the earth, rise and set times to the positions of interest could be > off by a good bit. But, if you want more accuracy, just update the element > sets. I don't know anything about skyplot, but the last step would be to > display the satellite in the correct reference frame - inertial or Earth > fixed. The inertial reference frame used by the NORAD element sets is easy > to convert to Earth fixed. Inertial would have the Earth rotating, and the > orbits would look like ellipses. Earth fixed would have the Earth, well, > fixed in space, and the orbits would not look anything like ellipses. - Kurt I'd like to thank you and everyone else that has posted. I think I received enough information and pointers to do what is needed now. I really appreciate it! TW === Subject: Re: What happened with the mini challenges??? >> Mini Challenges are very nice becouse it helps new User RPL >> programmers to learn and becouse it`s a motivation to programm in >> User... > The formula below (in FORTRAN) works very well: > I wish I could do something like this for the 32SII because it >> has such limited memory. It has no built in date math like DDAYS though. http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv015.cgi?read=88077 That one is for the HP-33S but it should fit in the 32SII. I think I ran out of memory around 90 lines or so some time back. Using the formula from the website I posted takes a little over 60 lines if I remember just for the Gregorian to JD calculation. I ended up using a more limited formula (good from 1900 to 2100) that calculates JD given the Gregorian date, and only takes up about 30 lines. Generally, I only need to compute the number of days that have passed, or just the JD (not the Gregorian date from JD), so this works out pretty well for my 32SII. - Kurt === Subject: Re: What happened with the mini challenges??? [Julian date] > This set does not need DTADJ in 'JD->' > (should work for dates after 11.111582) << HMS-> 24. / 11.111582 ROT DDAYS 2299187.5 + + >> '->JD' STO << 2299187.5 - DUP FP 24. * ->HMS 4. RND 0 HMS+ 11.111582 ROT IP DATE+ SWAP >> 'JD->' STO @ Example: 8.111877 07.30 <-> 2406842.8125 << ->JD JD->> 'DTADJ' STO @ [updated] Above is simpler, but slightly less precise, due to large integer offset of JD, leaving only five digits after decimal point for time of day; may be equivalent, however, when rounded to hh.mmss Related topics: Programs seeking to test whether yyyy/mm/dd is a valid date need only convert it to a day number, then back to a date; the date is valid if (and only if) the result equals the original input (I suspected my original HP12C of using that method, based solely on the timing of its own DATE[+] and DD[A]YS functions). http://www.hpmuseum.org/12c.jpg The HP12C DATE function also indicated (numerically) the day of the week (1 thru 7 for Monday thru Sunday) The following indicates day of week on all HP48/49/50: @ 9.092007 -> SUN: 9.092007 [uppercase tag] << 0 DATE+ DUP 0 TSTR 1 3 SUB ->TAG >> 'WD' STO @ 9.092007 -> Sun: 9.092007 [Word case tag] << 0 DATE+ DUP 0 TSTR 1 3 SUB 0 CHR + OR ->TAG >> 'WD' STO @ 9.092007 -> 7 [Sunday] << 1.012001 SWAP DDAYS 7 MOD 1 + >> 'WN' STO @ 9.092007 -> Dim: 9.092007 [Fran.8dais] << 0 DATE+ { Lun Mar Mer Jeu Ven Sam Dim } OVER WN GET ->TAG >> 'WD' STO @ [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Using TOFF to delay calc turnoff Recently a posting discussed using TOFF to delay calculator turnoff. (I tried to find the original message w/o success.) I would like to use this feature but don't know how to proceed. I search the HP50 manuals for TOFF w/o success. I also typed TOFF followed by ENTER and got TOFF as a response. Is this feature available on the HP50? IF so, how can I use it? === Subject: Re: Using TOFF to delay calc turnoff > Recently a posting discussed using TOFF to delay calculator turnoff. (I > tried to find the original message w/o success.) I would like to use this > feature but don't know how to proceed. I search the HP50 manuals for TOFF > w/o success. I also typed TOFF followed by ENTER and got TOFF as a response. Is this feature available on the HP50? IF so, how can I use it? > I did a search for TOFF here and Joe Horn has posted how to use it. It is a reserved variable that needs to be in the home directory. The value in it is the number of ticks until turnoff (8192 ticks per second). Here is the link to the posting string. Rich W 496 === Subject: Re: Connecting the 50G to the internet Looks like I posted too soon. I set up IP masquerading, and everything works now. === Subject: Re: Connecting the 50G to the internet Excellent! Considering that the HP-49 and 50 have far more memory and processor horsepower than almost *any* computers did when the Web started (1989), I didn't doubt you could do it. Bravo!! Jim Horn (On the Internet since early 1984 - first learned of the KAL flight loss via readnews, an early Usenet system at HP...) === Subject: Re: Connecting the 50G to the internet <13e3q142i03qb50@corp.supernews.com> It would be part of this project: === Subject: Re: Connecting the 50G to the internet > I can connect my 50g to my computer using Usinagaz and pppd, but I > can't get a connection to my network or the internet. Do I need to set > up some sort of proxy or port forwaring? If so, is there a guide > anywhere? The internet is coded in HTML and contains many graphical objects in forms that the HP calculator is not programmed to understand. You are basically asking a unit with an operating system designed and optimized for mathematical functions to act as a HHC or web compatible phone, something it was most definitely not designed for. Neither the screen definition level nor the operating system are what I would call either Internet or Windows compatible. I do not think that I have heard of an available program that could be used to handle internet communications with the 50G either, much less include a modem or DSL interface control for internet hookup. Rich W === Subject: Re: Connecting the 50G to the internet > The internet is coded in HTML and contains many graphical objects > in forms that the HP calculator is not programmed to understand. There are text browsers (and even graphical browsers having a text mode) which work anyway: http://lynx.browser.org/ You might as well say that a cell phone has too tiny a screen (and oriented the wrong way) to handle web browsing, but they still also do. Last I checked, email can also be sent in plain text, and even something called a newsgroup post :) -=-=-=- === Subject: Re: Connecting the 50G to the internet Graywolf schrieb im Newsbeitrag >I don't think you can surf the internet using a calculator. > But that's what Usinagaz was made for... As usual, the question is not if it makes sense, but if it can be made at all;-) Similar thing: Many years ago I installed Windows 3.x on my HP 200LX, and of course connected a serial mouse. Although Windows on the LX isn't too useful, it works fine, even with the mouse. An back then, it was great to show _this_ to friends:-) Ray === Subject: Re: Indeterminate Integration in 48g > Hi people... > A friend of a spanish forum is looking for the way to do the > indeterminate integration of: > X^2007*LN(X) > in a 48g... > We`ve readed the procedure of the User Guide but it doesn`t gives us > the correct answer... > Answer: 1/2008(x^2008Lnx-(x^2008)/2008) > I`ve tryed in my 50g too but i`ve not finded the way to do > indeterminate integration with it... i know it can do this but i dont > find the way, and the user guide doesn`t explain that... > I think about to do a taylor aproximation for the function but my 50g > have been working about 10 minutes without an answer... > Can anybody help us...??? OK. In exact mode: INTVX(X^20) works fine... and fast > INTVX(X^200) works fine... and quite fast > INTVX(X^2000) works fine... and no so fast > INTVX(X^2007) works fine... but much slower > INTVX(LN(X)) works fine... and fast > INTVX(X^20*LN(X)) works fine... and quite fast > INTVX(X^2007)*LN(X)) also works fine... but much much slower (a few > minutes on a HP49 emulator on an Intel Macintosh!) So be (very very) patient. FYI the answer takes less than 1 second on > a ti nspire ;-) clock processor... without erable and without the possibility of install it or transfer any library... In the 50g the complete integral took 317 seconds... :o === Subject: Re: Indeterminate Integration in 48g Maybe next CAS system for HPs could take advantage of integration tables idea... Ti uses that technique and this integration took 2 seconds on it... Or maybe launch ROM versions with different profiles... it is, a ROM especially for math, other especially for programming, etc... or a ROM especially for ALL!!! ;?) === Subject: Re: Calculator defined I am following this discussion with real amusement. It has the same > tone and intellectual depth as discussion of kindergarten kids whose > MatchBox car is more real. Well... These cars are all matchbox cars. > Not real. Means: toys. This is make believe game. > Thats strange. I have plenty of people willing to pay about $2,000 > for a toy in a box for serious work. So good that we are doing > a major European launch with a distributor Sept 1. > TI calculators are good quality. Well designed. Doing exactly what > needed and doing well. > And they are fine products, for students, like you point out. Like I > point out to people asking my opinion on what calculator to buy. For > that don't want to put effort into learning the more complex system > that has more power and capability, they are fine products . . . if > you like squishy keys. Just because it is more difficult to learn at > first doesn't mean it isn't worth it. In my opinion it is. > I have NO IDEA why I would need expansion card > in calculator. I have NO IDEA why I would ever make serious > calculations on device with screen a bit bigger than a post stamp and > with lousy contrast, no-qwerty keyboard with 25 different functions > assigned to each key and without basic mathematical tools. > Like I said, you don't do any serious work on them. That is why you > don't care if they are good or not. I do serious work, so I want > improvement. > P.S. Why TI-99 processor is not real processor?... And, by the way, > maybe you could buy TI-99 and play a bit? My first TI was TI-95. You > would like them. > I have two TI calculators. I know them. I don't like them because > they don't do what I need. > TW > PS - Just because you are a sad, old, bitter individual doesn't mean > others can't have their own opinions and that your's is the right > one. You are entitled to your own opinion, but it does get old having > your constant negative dribble on almost every post here. Expressing > the same thing over and over again contributes nothing. Tim, you're waisting time feeding that russian commi troll > reth I hope this that this project continues... i think that the potential of our calculators is very big and with it nothing is impossible... Please don`t forget User RPL... :D... I`m learning it and i love it! === Subject: Re: GPS Orbital Path Especially since it is for display on a TINY screen. If I remember > right, the GPS sat positions don't change a whole lot, correct? So if > I code something up will it still be mostly correct in a year or > two? I know I'd need the ability to turn off broken sats, but that > isn't a big issue really. I don't know if they do any station keeping - I imagine so because they need to work as a constellation. I'd update at least monthly (more on that later). This is what I would probably do. Grab two-line element sets directly from the celestrak.com website. Convert the norad element sets to standard Keplerian element sets. Right there, that costs you about 10 to 15 km in accuracy (not much for a satellite that is 20,000 km away). Then, propagate those orbits with the simple two-body propagator. I did a quick check, and after a month, a typical GPS satellite (circular, period of about 12 hours, inclined about 55 degrees) would be off by about 230 km compared to the NORAD propagator. And, since the NORAD propagator (SGP4) is not all that accurate, you can expect it to be off by about 40 km after 30 days. So, after a month, you could expect the satelite to be off by maybe 300 km, which for basic stuff, isn't so bad when compared to how far away the satellite is. Since it is on a 12 hour orbit, and moves slowly with respect to the earth, rise and set times to the positions of interest could be off by a good bit. But, if you want more accuracy, just update the element sets. I don't know anything about skyplot, but the last step would be to display the satellite in the correct reference frame - inertial or Earth fixed. The inertial reference frame used by the NORAD element sets is easy to convert to Earth fixed. Inertial would have the Earth rotating, and the orbits would look like ellipses. Earth fixed would have the Earth, well, fixed in space, and the orbits would not look anything like ellipses. - Kurt === Subject: Re: GPS Orbital Path > Arent the GPS satellites low enough so that the user's position on > Earth needs to be taken into consideration for any skyplot? I would > think otherwise the parallax would be a killer. Maybe I have > misunderstood but I have not seen this mentioned in the thread. > Sounds like need GPS info fed into the program too for a reasonably > accurate plot. Yes. The position is known quite accurately as a GPS is plugged in. Position on the earth would most definitely be needed for it. TW === Subject: Re: What happened with the mini challenges??? [Julian date] <13dse868a85ca46@corp.supernews.com> <13dulnb4cn41ue0@corp.supernews.com I wish I could do something like this for the 32SII because it > has such limited memory. It has no built in date math like DDAYS though. http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv015.cgi?read=88077 That one is for the HP-33S but it should fit in the 32SII. Gerson. === Subject: Re: Using TOFF to delay calc turnoff > Recently a posting discussed using TOFF to delay calculator turnoff. > Is this feature available on the HP50? Built-in on all HP49 series calculators: 49G/49G+/50G/48Gii/48gs It must be a user binary integer #nnnnn (in units of clock ticks, which are each 1/8192 second). E.g. for five minutes (which is the default anyway): '8192*60*5' ->NUM R->B HOME 'TOFF' STO (this value in hex is #258000h) A value in a subdirectory can override a value in HOME. As a safety feature, the calc stays on for a minimum of five seconds, even if a smaller value (e.g. #0) is specified. The maximum useful value seems to be 2^31-1, which is close to 72 hours (three days); old (49G) ROM versions had a bug, which would immediately turn off if any _larger_ value was specified: Unspecified results may occur if an object of the wrong type is stored (e.g. a decimal integer or real number, rather than user binary type #nnnnn, internal object type 10) [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Using TOFF to delay calc turnoff I'm a new owner of a HP50, purchased last week. Haven't programmed in RPL (HP42) for about 10 years. I appreciate the code you provided, but have had no success in creating. I'm a little overwhelmed with all of the pdf manuals that are available. I'd like to change the time off delay to handle the long pauses I have between entries. Could you explain how to enter this code to HP50 novice? Jim > Recently a posting discussed using TOFF to delay calculator turnoff. >> Is this feature available on the HP50? Built-in on all HP49 series calculators: 49G/49G+/50G/48Gii/48gs It must be a user binary integer #nnnnn > (in units of clock ticks, which are each 1/8192 second). E.g. for five minutes (which is the default anyway): '8192*60*5' ->NUM R->B HOME 'TOFF' STO > (this value in hex is #258000h) A value in a subdirectory can override a value in HOME. As a safety feature, the calc stays on for a minimum of five seconds, > even if a smaller value (e.g. #0) is specified. The maximum useful value seems to be 2^31-1, > which is close to 72 hours (three days); old (49G) ROM versions had a bug, > which would immediately turn off if any _larger_ value was specified: > Unspecified results may occur if an object of the wrong type > is stored (e.g. a decimal integer or real number, > rather than user binary type #nnnnn, internal object type 10) [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Using TOFF to delay calc turnoff <6l_Ei.1091$cy3.804@trndny03 I'm a new owner of a HP50, purchased last week. Haven't programmed in RPL > (HP42) for about 10 years. I appreciate the code you provided, but have had > no success in creating. I'm a little overwhelmed with all of the pdf > manuals that are available. I'd like to change the time off delay to handle the long pauses I have > between entries. Could you explain how to enter this code to HP50 novice? Jim >> Recently a posting discussed using TOFF to delay calculator turnoff. >> Is this feature available on the HP50? > Built-in on all HP49 series calculators: 49G/49G+/50G/48Gii/48gs > It must be a user binary integer #nnnnn > (in units of clock ticks, which are each 1/8192 second). > E.g. for five minutes (which is the default anyway): > '8192*60*5' ->NUM R->B HOME 'TOFF' STO > (this value in hex is #258000h) > A value in a subdirectory can override a value in HOME. > As a safety feature, the calc stays on for a minimum of five seconds, > even if a smaller value (e.g. #0) is specified. > The maximum useful value seems to be 2^31-1, > which is close to 72 hours (three days); old (49G) ROM versions had a bug, > which would immediately turn off if any _larger_ value was specified: > Unspecified results may occur if an object of the wrong type > is stored (e.g. a decimal integer or real number, > rather than user binary type #nnnnn, internal object type 10) > [r->] [OFF]- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Here is a step by step procedure to set the time off to 24 hours. RPN mode. 8192 (ticks per second) Enter 3600 (seconds per hour) X 24 (Hours per day) Vary as desired. X left shift (white shift key) convert base (use arrow key to hilight Base) ok R > B ok 'TOFF' (variable name) use single quotes not Enter (place name in level one) STO> Hope that this is some help. The 50G is a different animal than the 42S. the 42S was the high end of RPN calculators while RPL is a different animal altogether with it's structured programming concepts and lack of line numbers. Rich W === Subject: Re: Using TOFF to delay calc turnoff Rich problem. Will do the same with my calculator tomorrow. Jim >> I'm a new owner of a HP50, purchased last week. Haven't programmed in >> RPL >> (HP42) for about 10 years. I appreciate the code you provided, but have >> had >> no success in creating. I'm a little overwhelmed with all of the pdf >> manuals that are available. >> I'd like to change the time off delay to handle the long pauses I have >> between entries. Could you explain how to enter this code to HP50 >> novice? >> Jim > Recently a posting discussed using TOFF to delay calculator turnoff. > Is this feature available on the HP50? >> Built-in on all HP49 series calculators: 49G/49G+/50G/48Gii/48gs >> It must be a user binary integer #nnnnn >> (in units of clock ticks, which are each 1/8192 second). >> E.g. for five minutes (which is the default anyway): >> '8192*60*5' ->NUM R->B HOME 'TOFF' STO >> (this value in hex is #258000h) >> A value in a subdirectory can override a value in HOME. >> As a safety feature, the calc stays on for a minimum of five seconds, >> even if a smaller value (e.g. #0) is specified. >> The maximum useful value seems to be 2^31-1, >> which is close to 72 hours (three days); old (49G) ROM versions had a >> bug, >> which would immediately turn off if any _larger_ value was specified: >> Unspecified results may occur if an object of the wrong type >> is stored (e.g. a decimal integer or real number, >> rather than user binary type #nnnnn, internal object type 10) >> [r->] [OFF]- Hide quoted text - >> - Show quoted text - Here is a step by step procedure to set the time off to 24 hours. RPN > mode. 8192 (ticks per second) > Enter > 3600 (seconds per hour) > X > 24 (Hours per day) Vary as desired. > X left shift (white shift key) > convert > base (use arrow key to hilight Base) > ok > R > B > ok 'TOFF' (variable name) use single quotes not > Enter (place name in level one) > STO Hope that this is some help. The 50G is a different animal than the > 42S. the 42S was the high end of RPN calculators while RPL is a > different animal altogether with it's structured programming concepts > and lack of line numbers. Rich W > === Subject: Re: Using TOFF to delay calc turnoff richwood schrieb im Newsbeitrag >> [..] > Hope that this is some help. The 50G is a different animal than the > 42S. the 42S was the high end of RPN calculators while RPL is a > different animal altogether with it's structured programming concepts > and lack of line numbers. > And to maybe confuse some readers: The HP-42S _is_ an RPL machine internally, only the user interface is taylored to work as an RPN machine. Raymond === Subject: Re: Using TOFF to delay calc turnoff > [..] > Hope that this is some help. The 50G is a different animal than the > 42S. the 42S was the high end of RPN calculators while RPL is a > different animal altogether with it's structured programming concepts > and lack of line numbers. And to maybe confuse some readers: > The HP-42S _is_ an RPL machine internally, > only the user interface is taylored to work as an RPN machine. Raymond Raymond; I would more describe the 42S as a Saturn processor machine like all the HP made RPL units and the other Pioneer series units. Internal microcode programming is in the Saturn native language but I am not sure this makes it RPL internally, though the intermediate level Saturn language has been called System RPL. At the user level it is RPN as that is what the user interface is. Probably largely a matter of semantics however. Rich W === Subject: Re: Using TOFF to delay calc turnoff On 2007-09-09 07:04:25 +1000, John H Meyers said: > Built-in on all HP49 series calculators: 49G/49G+/50G/48Gii/48gs 48gs ?? Is there such a thing? Jean-Yves === Subject: Re: Using TOFF to delay calc turnoff <46e363b4$0$9506$426a74cc@news.free.fr On 2007-09-09 07:04:25 +1000, John H Meyers said:> Built-in on all HP49 series calculators: 49G/49G+/50G/48Gii/48gs 48gs ?? Is there such a thing? Jean-Yves Perhaps not. But you can buy a replacement case for one just in case someday there is such a thing. (Or so the site claims.) http://www.calculatorshop.co.uk/acatalog/HP_calculator_cases.html -wes === Subject: Re: Using TOFF to delay calc turnoff <46e363b4$0$9506$426a74cc@news.free.fr 48gs ?? Is there such a thing? Jean-Yves Probably 48G/G+/GX hence Gs (plural like dog -> dogs) . . . its one of those stupid american english things. . . ;-) TW === Subject: Re: Using TOFF to delay calc turnoff <46e363b4$0$9506$426a74cc@news.free.fr > 48gs ?? > Is there such a thing? > Jean-Yves Probably 48G/G+/GX hence Gs (plural like dog -> dogs) . . . its one > of those stupid american english things. . . ;-) TW Ah, yes, but of course. That would explain the extra $5 for the Gs. Buy one at the regular price or get two (plural) for $5 more. ;-) -wes === Subject: Re: Using TOFF to delay calc turnoff <46e363b4$0$9506$426a74cc@news.free.fr > 48gs ?? > Is there such a thing? > Jean-Yves Probably 48G/G+/GX hence Gs (plural like dog -> dogs) . . . its one > of those stupid american english things. . . ;-) TW I was thinking more like a typo, since the s and x keys are right next to each other diagonally. Is American English stupid, or efficient? We don't waste time or effort on Maskulin/Femininum/Neutrum/Nominativ/Akkusativ/Genitiv stuff that only complicates things. We now have more time to win Nobel prizes and invent things that make life easier (like HP's). So there. hehe === Subject: Re: Using TOFF to delay calc turnoff > Recently a posting discussed using TOFF to delay calculator turnoff. (I > tried to find the original message w/o success.) I would like to use this > feature but don't know how to proceed. I search the HP50 manuals for TOFF > w/o success. I also typed TOFF followed by ENTER and got TOFF as a response. > Is this feature available on the HP50? IF so, how can I use it? > I did a search for TOFF here and Joe Horn has posted how to use it. > It is a reserved variable that needs to be in the home directory. The > value in it is the number of ticks until turnoff (8192 ticks per > second). Here is the link to the posting string. > Rich W TOFF works on both my HP50G and 48GX with the Meta Kernel card installed. No effect on a 48SX and have not tried it on the 48GX without the Meta Kernel. Based on the MK manual this is a MK enhancement for the 48GX so I would not expect it to work w/o the Meta Kernel. No mention of it in the 48GX manuals either. It is documented in the Advanced Users Reference for the 48GII and 49G + under reserved variables in appendix D. Rich W === Subject: Re: HP 50g SOLVEVX On Sep 7, 3:49 pm, hgab...@xmission.com 2.' } Why this odd (not completely evaluated) representation for the second > root? EVAL EVAL takes care of it, of course, and also 'X^2 + 1.*X +1' > returns both fully evaluated roots. Any ideas? This is indeed strange. The first root is fully evaluated, the second one isn't. I tried other expressions (e.g., 'x^3-x+1', and others), and SOLVEVX (or X SOLVE ) evaluates them all fully. Maybe your expression is the only one that gives this funny result. I'll see if I can snoop around with some low level tools. === Subject: Re: HP50g: CASDIR Restore >> Do you think it is to cheap? >> I know, that it is less than two fancy cocktails in one«s favorite in- >> bar. > Except that there are a few equation library available, free of charge. > JY True. But in many cases you get what you pay for. Until the $ started to slide against the Euro, that was a quite reasonable price ... of course, its more expensive in US$ these days. === Subject: Re: HPgcc for 49G+ tw is right. you need to prevent it from quitting until you hit the ON key. i'd be interested to know how much memory you have available to the c environment on the 49. if you get it working can you try this program: #include #include //the standard HP lib int main() { clear_screen(); //clear the screen register unsigned int stack_ptr asm(sp); unsigned int b = sbrk(0); printf(%dn, stack_ptr-b); while(!keyb_isON()); //loop until ON pressed return 0; } which should print out how many free bytes of memory you have left after it has loaded and run. cheers, -- hugh. >> send to my Hp 49G+. Nothing never happens, meaning the program doesn't >> run as expected Sorry for the double post. . . is it just going so fast you don't see > anything? If you don't have a while(!keyb_isON()); or something at > the end that might be happening. TW > === Subject: HP35s on Amazon I am not sure that this was mentioned... HP 35s is available from Amazon http://tinyurl.com/2mzyr8 from 4 various sources. There are already 11 reviews. Average is 4 stars (out of 5). Most of reviews are in 5 star category, although there are reviews with 1 star and 2 stars. A.L. === Subject: Re: HP35s on Amazon > I am not sure that this was mentioned... HP 35s is available from > Amazon > although there are reviews with 1 star > and 2 stars. Yeah, marvelous reviews. 1 star for it not being a 41 and not caring to read the user manual. 2 stars for not using AAA batteries and not having any clue how RPN differs from RPL. 3 stars for not having actually used it but is really really sure that the RPN is broken because it's not like his RPL based 28.... Amazon needs your reviews.... Of course this isn't totally unexpected with Amazon reviews. If you want a 5 star calculator, I guess you want the CalcuBot: http://tinyurl.com/27vhg5 *sigh* -Jonathan === Subject: quaternions/tensors on HP50g I am thinking about upgrading from an HP48gx to an HP50g for increased speed, memory and data exchange via SD. My primary interest is computing with quaternions and 4d tensors (general relativity). Has anyone done these calculations with an HP50g? Dave Feustel -- === Subject: Re: quaternions/tensors on HP50g > I am thinking about upgrading from an HP48gx to an HP50g for > increased speed, memory and data exchange via SD. My primary > interest is computing with quaternions and 4d tensors (general > relativity). Has anyone done these calculations with an HP50g? Dave Feustel -- One can program quaternion arithmetic fairly easily on the hp50. There is even a quaternion library for the hp50 at http://www.hpcalc.org. I haven't tried 4d tensors, but I suspect something could be done there, too. === Subject: Re: HPcalc.org Commerce Site Update > Take a look at Eric's update of the commerce site. Has quite a nice > collection of information on all the calcs and a serial cable that I > know functions perfectly as I've tested them on a wide variety of > cheap (and not so cheap) surveying equipment. Some other cable > designs I've tried have the annoying tendency to drop the first > character, or spit out a garbage char on first transmission after an > OPENIO. http://commerce.hpcalc.org/ TW Good on Eric for that cable, gotta organize reasonable shipping to OZ though, $37 for a $20 cable is a bit too much === Subject: Re: HPcalc.org Commerce Site Update reth ha scritto: > Good on Eric for that cable, gotta organize reasonable shipping to OZ > though, $37 for a $20 cable is a bit too much Hi reth. Just after my post about the 33 USD shipping rate to Italy, Eric sent me an e-mail where he stated that: the $33 is shipping for a calculator, which weighs a lot (total shipped weight is just over 1 kg). The cable only weighs 100 g or so, making shipping a lot cheaper. Accordingly, I ordered the cable wih a *5 USD* shipping fee to Italy - I guess your rate will end to be fairly less than 37 USD :-) Hope this helps. Giancarlo === Subject: Re: HPcalc.org Commerce Site Update reth ha scritto: > Good on Eric for that cable, gotta organize reasonable shipping to OZ > though, $37 for a $20 cable is a bit too much Hi reth. Just after my post about the 33 USD shipping rate to Italy, Eric sent me an e-mail where he stated that: the $33 is shipping for a calculator, which weighs a lot (total shipped weight is just over 1 kg). The cable only weighs 100 g or so, making shipping a lot cheaper. Accordingly, I ordered the cable wih a *5 USD* shipping fee to Italy - I guess your rate will end to be fairly less than 37 USD :-) Hope this helps. Giancarlo === Subject: Debounce on 50G Hi all. I apologize for getting back to a subject already passed in here, but I unexpectedly just realized I did not understand what I thought I had understood..... Well, to be a bit clearer: I thought that on 50G the KEYTIME-> command could set the keytime value and so help to solve the multiple keypress issue. AFAI can understand, 50G uses kinda hardware debounce (any further detail about that?), while the KEYTIME-> trick was helpful until the 49G (?) member of the family.... The Advanced User's Reference Manual states that This command is provided for compatibility with earlier calculators, but does nothing on the hp49g+/hp48gII and on the 50G as well, I infer.... May any please clarify this issue? At least I could delete that 500 KEYTIME-> statement from my 50G's TARTUP variable :-) Giancarlo === Subject: Re: Debounce on 50G > Hi all. > I apologize for getting back to a subject already passed in here, but > I unexpectedly just realized I did not understand what I thought I had > understood..... > Well, to be a bit clearer: I thought that on 50G the KEYTIME-> command > could set the keytime value and so help to solve the multiple keypress > issue. > AFAI can understand, 50G uses kinda hardware debounce (any further > detail about that?), while the KEYTIME-> trick was helpful until the > 49G (?) member of the family.... > The Advanced User's Reference Manual states that This command is > provided for compatibility with earlier calculators, but does nothing > on the hp49g+/hp48gII and on the 50G as well, I infer.... May any please clarify this issue? At least I could delete that 500 > KEYTIME-> statement from my 50G's TARTUP variable :-) KEYTIME-> returns the *current* keytime value. To set a new keytime value, use, for example, 500 ->KEYTIME instead of 500 KEYTIME->. -- James === Subject: Re: Debounce on 50G > Well, to be a bit clearer: I thought that on 50G the KEYTIME-> command > could set the keytime value and so help to solve the multiple keypress issue. Are you experiencing key bounce? What's the result of your KEYTIME-> (displays current value)? Definitive history and answers Quoting that author's personal experience: The new, third-generation metal dome keyboard does an amazing job at eliminating keybounce. Setting the KEYTIME to as low as 160 ticks (that's just 20 milliseconds) still has no bounce, and buttons can be pressed as fast as humanly possible with no missed keystrokes. [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Debounce on 50G On 11 Set, 22:19, Giancarlo I apologize for getting back to a subject already passed in here, but > I unexpectedly just realized I did not understand what I thought I had > understood..... > Well, to be a bit clearer: I thought that on 50G the KEYTIME-> command > could set the keytime value and so help to solve the multiple keypress > issue. > AFAI can understand, 50G uses kinda hardware debounce (any further > detail about that?), while the KEYTIME-> trick was helpful until the > 49G (?) member of the family.... > The Advanced User's Reference Manual states that This command is > provided for compatibility with earlier calculators, but does nothing > on the hp49g+/hp48gII and on the 50G as well, I infer.... May any please clarify this issue? At least I could delete that 500 > KEYTIME-> statement from my 50G's TARTUP variable :-) Giancarlo Oh, damn! :-( I should have read this before: http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv016.cgi?read=99206 where James M. Prange states that: On early versions of the 49g+, the KEYTIME-> and ->KEYTIME commands did nothing. But because of complaints about the keyboard, their functionality was restored. Since they work on my 49g+, and ROM revision 2.09 is shared by the 49g+ and 50g, I expect that they work on the 50g. However, any further insight is still appreciated :-) Giancarlo === Subject: Re: Using TOFF to delay calc turnoff richwood schrieb im Newsbeitrag >> richwood schrieb im > [..] >> Hope that this is some help. The 50G is a different animal than the >> 42S. the 42S was the high end of RPN calculators while RPL is a >> different animal altogether with it's structured programming concepts >> and lack of line numbers. >> And to maybe confuse some readers: >> The HP-42S _is_ an RPL machine internally, >> only the user interface is taylored to work as an RPN machine. >> Raymond Raymond; I would more describe the 42S as a Saturn processor machine like all > the HP made RPL units and the other Pioneer series units. Internal > microcode programming is in the Saturn native language but I am not > sure this makes it RPL internally, though the intermediate level > Saturn language has been called System RPL. At the user level it is > RPN as that is what the user interface is. Probably largely a matter > of semantics however. > Hello Rich, believe me, the 42S uses a stripped down version of the RPL kernel, derived from the kernel in the HP-28 and HP-17B/II . There are also various RPL math functions in the HP-42S, some of the larger ones dealing with matrix manipulation, and which are exactly the same RPL code as in the HP-48SX. Of course the machine language is the same on all Pioneer models, but the HP-42S also has RPL PCOs (Primitive Code Objects) like SWAP or DUP, RPL secondaries, and a continuously running RPL inner loop which makes it an RPL machine. An example of an HP-42S secondary: LABEL ARRYLP_DO :: DUP ARSIZE COLA #1+ONE_DO ; One of the differences between the HP-42S kernel and the HP-48 kernel is that the 42S kernel isn't prepared to deal with bank switching. The 42S RPN user interface can be seen as powerful RPL application which you can't exit;-) Raymond === Subject: Re: TI-89 Titanium instead of HP 49g+? > I am a student of Computer Science Engineering and I need a graphing > calculator. I was ready to buy an HP 49g+, until I read all the complaints about the > keyboard problems. Are they fixed yet? If so, is there any way to make sure to buy a fixed > unit? Is it an hardware or software issue? If there is no sure way to get an HP 49g+ without keyboard problems, I > will probably buy an TI-89 Titanium instead. What do you think about it? Is it a good calculator? > the new HP50G has for sure the fixed keyboard. the last production runs of the 49G+ also has the fixed keyboard, but one should get the 50G to be sure one has the fixed keyboard. The 50G is a very powerful calc, but so is the TI-89 Titanium. The 50G is much better for working with large matrix math. === Subject: Re: quaternions/tensors on HP50g <5v-dnc-9kNBY83jbnZ2dnUVZ_qelnZ2d@comcast.com I did a lot of work with quaternions back on my 48sx and later with the 48gx. > Now my focus has shifted almost totally to 4-d tensors, for which there seems > to be no support on calculators. I expect to have to program all my own stuff > using CAS support if possible. It may be that the computational requirements > of tensor calculations within CAS are beyond the capabilities of calculators. > In that case I will just have to do tensor calculations on my computer using > Maxima, Axiom, Jacal or equivalent. -- Yes, I think the computations (including simplification of large intermediate results) can be quite taxing for a calculator. Bhuvanesh === Subject: Re: Non-programmable RPN Calculator The hp 15 scientific calculator did complex arithmetic and had very > little programming capabilities. I used to have one but I don't > know whether they are still available. You could always try working > with sliderules :-). I used a HP-15C through EE in University in the late 1980s - it's complex math capabilities were perfect for signal processing and circuit design. Unfortunately for Ryan, an HP-15C on ebay today cost about double what his HP50G cost. That being said, an HP-35s is not much beyond the HP-15C - while it is programmable it is good old fashion key stroke programming. Too bad your institution is so anal - in my day you were allowed a 8.5x11 sheet of paper with anything you wanted written on it...so a programmable calculator was not considered a problem. -- Dominic Richens | knob@storm.ca If you're not *outraged*, you're not paying attention! === Subject: Re: Non-programmable RPN Calculator math capabilities were perfect for signal processing and circuit design. Unfortunately for Ryan, an HP-15C on ebay today cost about double what his > HP50G cost. That being said, an HP-35s is not much beyond the HP-15C - while it is > programmable it is good old fashion key stroke programming. Too bad your institution is so anal - in my day you were allowed a 8.5x11 > sheet of paper with anything you wanted written on it...so a programmable > calculator was not considered a problem. It's actually only one of my professors (with which I have 2 classes) that is forbidding the calculators. It's a far cry from my other Elex class where programmable calculators are not only allowed, but encouraged. In that class the emphasis is indeed on finding and using the knowledge as opposed to simply memorizing the formulas. But alas... I've decided to go ahead and buy a 35s once I find somewhere to buy it. The programmability is so limited compared to the 50g or TI graphing calcs that I can get away with it. And it helps that it doesn't look like a programmable in the sense that it has only a 2- line screen. Does anybody know where the best place to buy an 35s is in Canada, specifically in the Vancouver area? Most places I've checked don't have it, just the 33s. === Subject: Re: Non-programmable RPN Calculator >> I used a HP-15C through EE in University in the late 1980s - it's complex >> math capabilities were perfect for signal processing and circuit design. >> Unfortunately for Ryan, an HP-15C on ebay today cost about double what his >> HP50G cost. >> That being said, an HP-35s is not much beyond the HP-15C - while it is >> programmable it is good old fashion key stroke programming. >> Too bad your institution is so anal - in my day you were allowed a 8.5x11 >> sheet of paper with anything you wanted written on it...so a programmable >> calculator was not considered a problem. It's actually only one of my professors (with which I have 2 classes) > that is forbidding the calculators. It's a far cry from my other Elex > class where programmable calculators are not only allowed, but > encouraged. In that class the emphasis is indeed on finding and using > the knowledge as opposed to simply memorizing the formulas. But > alas... I've decided to go ahead and buy a 35s once I find somewhere to buy > it. The programmability is so limited compared to the 50g or TI > graphing calcs that I can get away with it. And it helps that it > doesn't look like a programmable in the sense that it has only a 2- > line screen. Does anybody know where the best place to buy an 35s is in Canada, > specifically in the Vancouver area? Most places I've checked don't > have it, just the 33s. Check amazon.ca. amazon.com sells the 50g for a good price. -- === Subject: Re: Non-programmable RPN Calculator The hp 15 scientific calculator did complex arithmetic and had very > little programming capabilities. I used to have one but I don't > know whether they are still available. You could always try working > with sliderules :-). I used a HP-15C through EE in University in the late 1980s - it's complex > math capabilities were perfect for signal processing and circuit design. Unfortunately for Ryan, an HP-15C on ebay today cost about double what his > HP50G cost. That being said, an HP-35s is not much beyond the HP-15C - while it is > programmable it is good old fashion key stroke programming. Too bad your institution is so anal - in my day you were allowed a 8.5x11 > sheet of paper with anything you wanted written on it...so a programmable > calculator was not considered a problem. -- > Dominic Richens | k...@storm.ca > If you're not *outraged*, you're not paying attention! I suspect that the problem is due to some of the top end TI units which even allow attachment of a QWERTY keyboard. Sounds like they are practically calculator oriented HHCs, with similar levels of alphanumeric handling capabilities. In that case a student could practically have a textbook or two and multiple pages of formulas stored in the calculator. Personally I feel college level tests should be open book anyway as IMO the purpose of college is not to force memorization but teach how to find and use the information required. Rich W === Subject: Re: Non-programmable RPN Calculator > What is wrong with using algebraic calculator?... Do you have problems > with understanding parentheses?... This is not so hard, you know... I bet you use Windows too, right? There's nothing wrong with algebraic calculators, but there's also nothing wrong with people preferring RPN over algebraic entry. === Subject: Re: Non-programmable RPN Calculator >> What is wrong with using algebraic calculator?... Do you have problems >> with understanding parentheses?... This is not so hard, you know... I bet you use Windows too, right? Funny. The other day I noticed an office mate was attempting to use my 32SII for something. He looked puzzled. He is a Windoz guy, and I'm a Unix one. I tried to explain how to use the calculator to him, and the benefits of RPN. He still looked puzzled (and this guy is the computer scientist). Finally, I just said, OK, the HP is like Unix, and the thing you call a calculator is like MS Windows. Then he understood, and luckly he now no longer wants to borrow my calculator. - Kurt === Subject: Re: Non-programmable RPN Calculator When one gets nested parens more than 2 levels deep under exam pressure, >something is almost certain to go wrong. Less likely for one who >understands RPN. You are kidding... If you have problems with parenteses and something goes wrong if nesting is higher than 2 then I would be not surprised if you flunk the exam, whatever calculator you use. All 20 bucks calculators have algebraic notation where you actually SEE the formula and can edit it before executing. A.L. === Subject: Re: Non-programmable RPN Calculator > >>When one gets nested parens more than 2 levels deep under exam pressure, >>something is almost certain to go wrong. Less likely for one who >>understands RPN. You are kidding... If you have problems with parenteses and something > goes wrong if nesting is higher than 2 then I would be not surprised > if you flunk the exam, whatever calculator you use. All 20 bucks calculators have algebraic notation where you actually > SEE the formula and can edit it before executing. Well, I've used both. In fact, I switched back to a $20 algebraic in college for a period of time because I didn't want to spend the money on a HP, and got by fine, although it annoyed me. First, I often deal with some very large equations. Typing the entire thing in at once is just error prone for me - it is easy to get lost with all the nested parenthesis. And then having to go back and double check the entire thing, scrolling around on a large graphics calculator, or converting an equation to single line format for one or two line calculators, is just one more place I can make a mistake and waste time. Second, I solve equations the way I think with RPN. I work from the inside out just as I would if I did it by hand - I think this is what I like most about RPN. Third, I can see results as they accumulate. I'm not just doing a hail mary pass at the end. Forth - for my simple single line calculator that I use most often - you can't beat RPN. Fifth, 5 4 + just makes more sense to me when I am working the problem. Hey, I say use whatever you want. RPN is like my favorite text editor (vi). It may seem crude, but it is very powerful, and once you understand it, going back to anything else is difficult and frustrating. I like algebraic mode for entering equations that I will be storing. But, I only like it in the equation editor - not the command line. If it wasn't for the equation editor, I would only write programs for equations in RPN. - Kurt === Subject: Re: Non-programmable RPN Calculator > Hi all. > I apologize for getting back to a subject already passed in here, but > I unexpectedly just realized I did not understand what I thought I had > understood..... > Well, to be a bit clearer: I thought that on 50G the KEYTIME-> command > could set the keytime value and so help to solve the multiple keypress > issue. > AFAI can understand, 50G uses kinda hardware debounce (any further > detail about that?), while the KEYTIME-> trick was helpful until the > 49G (?) member of the family.... > The Advanced User's Reference Manual states that This command is > provided for compatibility with earlier calculators, but does nothing > on the hp49g+/hp48gII and on the 50G as well, I infer.... May any please clarify this issue? At least I could delete that 500 > KEYTIME-> statement from my 50G's TARTUP variable :-) KEYTIME-> returns the *current* keytime value. To set a new keytime value, use, for example, 500 ->KEYTIME instead of 500 KEYTIME->. -- James === Subject: Re: Non-programmable RPN Calculator Sorry, I replied to the wrong thread. -- James