826 === Subject: Re: Help identifying calculator model My \super thin scientific, solar-only, membrane keyboard\ Radio Shack model number is EC-4016, R.S. catalog# 65-980, also claimed here to have been cat# 65-981: http://mycalcdb.free.fr/main.php?l=0&b=304 http://mycalcdb.free.fr/main.php?l=0&id=4053 http://www.rskey.org/ec4016.htm (photos seem to be disabled) It may have been Casio's model fx-115 or original variation thereof (not to be confused with a series of very different newer models, also named fx-115X or fx-115XY, which continue to be produced, year after year) http://www.devidts.com/be-calc/catalog C.asc.htm [fx-115] http://www.devidts.com/be-calc/catalog R.asc.htm [ec-4016] For example, see both \Casio fx-115 (10+2 digit, mid-80s)\ and \Radio Shack EC-4016\ here: http://www.rskey.org/~mwsebastian/miscprj/results.htm and http://everything2.com/title/Casio%2520fx-115 [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Help identifying calculator model is working for me...) === Subject: Re: Help identifying calculator model > The EC-4016 is the one I was thinking of! > (rskey.org's picture is working for me...) The site is apparently programmed to refuse access to the images unless \referrer logging\ is enabled (which aids in \tracking\ visitors between web sites, across browser sessions), as I just discovered. Yes sir, that's my baby, too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh1eGgFTLx4 [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Help identifying calculator model \The site is apparently programmed to refuse access to the images unless \referrer logging\ is enabled (which aids in \tracking\ visitors between web sites, across browser sessions), as I just discovered.\ There's a better picture on Michael Covington's web site, the October 10th, \ 2006 entry: \ http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/michael/blog/0610/index.html They seem to be pretty obscure -- must not have sold as well as I would have \ guessed. ---Joel === Subject: Re: Help identifying calculator model > There's a better picture on Michael Covington's web site, the October \ 10th, > 2006 entry: \ http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/michael/blog/0610/index.html as I had given up after much fruitless web searching. > They seem to be pretty obscure -- must not have sold > as well as I would have guessed. My purchase might have been at a Radio Shack store in a mall in San Juan, PR, around 1985-86, where I may have said \gimme that!\ the moment I laid eyes on it. A Google search turned up some eBay \feedbacks\ about some Radio Shack models \65-981\ that had been auctioned, but apparently they were sold long enough ago that all such feedback is now too old to display directly at eBay (and the original seller currently has zero items for sale). [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Two programs simultaneously \Gurveer\ schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I'm sorry but I have an HP 50g calculator. Is there any way out for > that? There is a version of MIG for HP 49G, but it is not working on ARM-calcs, like hp 49g+/50g. Heiko === Subject: HP-35s and Parentheses Importance: Normal I just found out the hard way that the 35s completes parentheses using a rather complex EQN and in editing it, inadvertently deleted a right parenthesis in the middle of the equation. The program still ran but gave the wrong answer. I couldn't figure out what the problem was for quite a while. I assumed (yeah, I know!) that I'd get a syntax error if the parentheses were unbalanced. Wrong! The calculator treats the equation as if the missing parenthesis is at the end. Not what I wanted at all in this case! There's no point to this tale other than to provide a humorous anecdote and admit that I do make mistakes occasionally. Let's see. The last one was in October of '59 if I recall correctly.... 8^) Tom Lake === Subject: Re: HP-35s and Parentheses posting-account=KpxjbgoAAADpGFrRQGQam6HH0egnDVyc Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10 (.NET CLR \ 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > I just found Êout the hard way that the 35s completes \ parentheses > using a rather complex EQN and in editing it, inadvertently deleted > a right parenthesis in the middle of the equation. ÊThe \ program > still ran but gave the wrong answer. ÊI couldn't figure out \ what the > problem was for quite a while. ÊI assumed (yeah, I know!) \ that I'd > get a syntax error if the parentheses were unbalanced. \ ÊWrong! Ê > The calculator treats the equation as if the missing parenthesis is > at the end. ÊNot what I wanted at all in this case! \ ÊThere's no point > to this tale other than to provide a humorous anecdote and admit > that I do make mistakes occasionally. ÊLet's see. \ ÊThe last one was > in October of '59 if I recall correctly.... 8^) > > Tom Lake Most (all?) of the Z80-based TI graphers will let you do this, too, even with function calls. It was a great way to save a few bytes while programming the TI-82 and TI-83, since you only had about 24KB usable memory. I don't think the TI-92 or TI-89 will let you slack on the closing parentheses, though. -Dave Britten === Subject: Re: HP-35s and Parentheses Not requiring closing parentheses is actually considered a \feature\ on \ most calculators these days. :-) Perhaps an even better feature would be have the machine automatically add \ the missing closing parentheses to the formula itself, so it was obvious upon review what had happened. With memory so readily available these days, it would be worth it. === Subject: Re: HP-35s and Parentheses > Not requiring closing parentheses is actually considered a \feature\ on \ most > calculators these days. :-) > > Perhaps an even better feature would be have the machine automatically add \ the > missing closing parentheses to the formula itself, so it was obvious upon \ > review what had happened. With memory so readily available these days, it \ > would be worth it. The HP49 series does this; I forget if the HP48 did too. If you enter 'SIN(X', you get 'SIN(X)' on the stack. This is often convenient as you can add the opening paren without needing to also move the cursor to the end to add the closing paren as well. However, it does sometimes lead to errors, and in a complicated expression it is not always \obvious upon review\ where the paren was added. === Subject: Re: HP-35s and Parentheses [drifting away from 35s] AFAIAA, all HP48/49/50 complete their parsing (compiling), at the end of a string, as if all expected closing delimiters were present anyway: ) and } and ] and ' and \ and \\>> and even ` The same when I press = at the end of a calculation expression on HP financial series (e.g. 17Bii), although it's not as generous in the SOLVE application, when \verifying\ a formula upon pressing CALC. This could potentially save keystrokes, but since the HP48/49/50 series is designed to practically always insert paired delimiters to begin with, between which you may then start inserting things, it saves little in practice, except when you save a little programming by simply inserting a single \{\ before parsing an INPUT string of a potentially unknown number of objects, thus most of the time producing exactly one object (a list), unless you \fool\ it by inserting a superfluous right brace. You can \force\ a stricter parsing regime on HP48/49/50, however, by always enclosing everything else between \\<< and \\>> You should then get a syntax error for any other unbalanced delimiters, except extra \\<< [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: HP-35s and Parentheses <8663fb5271.fsf@vulcan.lan> posting-account=KpxjbgoAAADpGFrRQGQam6HH0egnDVyc Gecko/2008102920 Firefox/3.0.4 (.NET CLR \ 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > [drifting away from 35s] > > AFAIAA, all HP48/49/50 complete their parsing (compiling), > at the end of a string, as if all expected closing delimiters > were present anyway: ) and } and ] and ' and \ and \\>> and even ` > > The same when I press = at the end of a calculation expression on > HP financial series (e.g. 17Bii), although it's not as generous > in the SOLVE application, when \verifying\ a formula upon pressing \ CALC. > > This could potentially save keystrokes, > but since the HP48/49/50 series is designed to practically always > insert paired delimiters to begin with, between which you may then > start inserting things, it saves little in practice, > except when you save a little programming by simply inserting > a single \{\ before parsing an INPUT string of a potentially > unknown number of objects, thus most of the time > producing exactly one object (a list), > unless you \fool\ it by inserting a superfluous right brace. > > You can \force\ a stricter parsing regime on HP48/49/50, however, > by always enclosing everything else between \\<< and \\>> > > You should then get a syntax error for any other unbalanced delimiters, > except extra \\<< > > [r->] [OFF] You can take this even further with a 28/48/49/50: [[1 2[3 4 That mangled excuse for a matrix will still be parsed correctly as [[1 2][3 4]]. This is more useful on the 28 series, which require separate keystrokes for beginning and ending delimiters, obviously. You can also do things like this on the 48/49/50: [[1 2]3 4 5 6 And end up with the proper columns: [[1 2][3 4][5 6]] My 28C balks at that one, though. I'm sure there are plenty of other fun ways to abuse the parser. -Dave Britten === Subject: Re: HP-35s and Parentheses > \[[1 2[3 4\ will still be parsed correctly as \[[1 2][3 4]]\ Yes, all expected \]\ are assumed present, including the one that follows the first row. \[[1 2]3 4]\ is easier to type, however, since the keyboard emits \[]\ already paired. > You can also do things like this on the 48/49/50: > \[[1 2]3 4 5 6\ and end up with \[[1 2][3 4][5 6]]\ Again, all expected \]\ are assumed present. It has always been sufficient to demark just the first row of a matrix; the compiler is then smart enough to know that every row has to be the same size; the Matrix Writer, once the first row is set and the second row is started, also does the same. Likewise, once the 'SigmaDAT' matrix has at least one row, it is no longer necessary to make more vectors out of additional stack inputs -- just pile more numbers on the stack, and each subsequent Sigma+ command will grab exactly one row full of numbers from the stack, to append another row to 'SigmaDAT' Each time I go to collect my paycheck, it also comes out the same, every time; how do they manage to do that? [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: HP-35s and Parentheses > The HP49 series does this; I forget if the HP48 did too. The HP-48S/G(X) machines actually insert both the opening and closing parentheses, quotes, list delimiters, program delimiters etc. Eg. If you want to enter the expression 'SIN(X)' onto the stack, press the \'\ key and you get this in the command line with the cursor under the second quote: '' If you now press \SIN\ you get this in the command line with the cursor under the closing parenthesis: 'SIN()' The entire expression with matching parentheses etc. will end up on the stack with these keystrokes: ['] [SIN] [alpha] X [Enter] Similarly, if you want to enter 'A*(B+C)' you'd hit: ['] [alpha] A * [left shift] [( )] ...at this point both the opening and closing parentheses are on the command line. Finish with: [alpha] B + C [Enter] You typed neither closing parenthesis nor closing quote for the algebraic expression. They were entered automatically. === Subject: Re: Having messages and some front-ends in Spanish! <86my8qd2by.fsf@vulcan.lan> posting-account=V6LrigoAAACudvZ0KlT32AF1BSfjssFY Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > see what you are speaking about. Can you detail a little bit more? I > > do not have the 50G AUR, but I have the user's guide located at > >http://smendes.com/hp50g.pdf. So, my p. 209 seems not to be linked > > with what you say. The application does not have added an entry in the > > APPS menu, fortunately, and the messages written in Spanish are also > > You can get the AUR athttp://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/hp49gpaur.zip. \ ÊIt's page 209 of > the PDF, numbered 3-91. ÊThe command should read 0 \ \\->LANGUAGE (with a > space, i.e. 0 is the argument to the command \\->LANGUAGE), where > \\-> is the right-arrow. Ê various ways (it is actually the same way you change KEYTIME), but it still displays `2' as a value for LANGUAGE (that is, Spanish), when using CAT, even after many times putting 0 in LANGUAGE. What can I do? :-( === Subject: Re: Having messages and some front-ends in Spanish! posting-account=Q2CEjQoAAACue5ZDDhUeRzv1w0u8hxZE Gecko/20090423 Firefox/3.5b4,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > various ways (it is actually the same way you change KEYTIME), but it > still displays `2' as a value for LANGUAGE (that is, Spanish), when > using CAT, even after many times putting 0 in LANGUAGE. > > What can I do? :-( > When does it change back? Is it when you boot the calculator? Turning off then back on? One of those programs you installed probably is changing the language for you. It is a 'feature'. TW === Subject: Putting subscripts in equations posting-account=V6LrigoAAACudvZ0KlT32AF1BSfjssFY Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) I need to put subscripts in equations. Next, these equations will be kept in my SD card's memory. But how can I manage to put subscripts (if it possible) in equations, using HP 50g? === Subject: Re: Putting subscripts in equations > I need to put subscripts in equations. Get Mathematica: http://documents.wolfram.com/mathematica/book/section-1.10.6 I haven't seen any such syntax in HP calculator expressions, though you can name a set of variables like { J~1 J~2 J~3 } for example, and thus invent your own notation, to take the place of more exotic graphics. Or, if 'J' contains a list or a vector, then { 'J(1)' 'J(2)' 'J(3)' } is a list representing its components, which can be individually evaluated, e.g. by \\<< EVAL \\>> DOLIST > Next, these equations will be kept in my SD card's memory. > But how can I manage to put subscripts (if it's possible) > in equations, using HP50g? \In Riemann, Hilbert or in Banach space Let superscripts and subscripts go their ways\ - from \Love and Tensor Algebra\ by Stanislaw Lem http://www.reddit.com/comments/8o0zn/do_you_know_any_math_influenced_lyrics/\ \I see the eigenvalue in thine eye, I hear the tender tensor in thy sigh. Bernoulli would have been content to die, Had he but known such a^2 cos 2 phi!\ [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Putting subscripts in equations Trident/4.0; InfoPath.1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30; \ .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.648; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > > I need to put subscripts in equations. > > I haven't seen any such syntax in HP calculator expressions, Nor I. It occurred to me that it might be possible to insert a smaller font - not really a subscript, but distinct. This, however, led to the Dreaded Winding Path. Style>Font does nothing but offer you the current font again. Wolfgang has an hpcalc program called Fonts that's claimed to toggle font sizes, but it crashes all my emulators - just drag/drop it onto the display and goodbye emulator. And that includes the HP49G (v1.23), in case he used old unstable entry points (which I think he used to do). There are some discussions of font toggling on the newsgroup, but none of them are particularly lucid and all would require more decrypting than a subscript is worth. Bill === Subject: Re: Putting subscripts in equations posting-account=V6LrigoAAACudvZ0KlT32AF1BSfjssFY Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > > > > I need to put subscripts in equations. > > > I haven't seen any such syntax in HP calculator expressions, > > Nor I. ÊIt occurred to me that it might be possible to insert \ a > smaller font - not really a subscript, but distinct. ÊThis, \ however, > led to the Dreaded Winding Path. ÊStyle>Font does nothing but \ offer > you the current font again. ÊWolfgang has an hpcalc program \ called > Fonts that's claimed to toggle font sizes, but it crashes all my > emulators - just drag/drop it onto the display and goodbye emulator. > And that includes the HP49G (v1.23), in case he used old unstable > entry points (which I think he used to do). > > There are some discussions of font toggling on the newsgroup, but none > of them are particularly lucid and all would require more decrypting > than a subscript is worth. > > Bill are plenty of formulas where you need to put subscripts. === Subject: Re: Putting subscripts in equations > > > > > > > > I need to put subscripts in equations. > > > > > I haven't seen any such syntax in HP calculator expressions, > > > > Nor I. ÊIt occurred to me that it might be possible to \ insert a > > smaller font - not really a subscript, but distinct. ÊThis, \ however, > > led to the Dreaded Winding Path. ÊStyle>Font does nothing \ but offer > > you the current font again. ÊWolfgang has an hpcalc program \ called > > Fonts that's claimed to toggle font sizes, but it crashes all my > > emulators - just drag/drop it onto the display and goodbye emulator. > > And that includes the HP49G (v1.23), in case he used old unstable > > entry points (which I think he used to do). > > > > There are some discussions of font toggling on the newsgroup, but none > > of them are particularly lucid and all would require more decrypting > > than a subscript is worth. > > > > Bill > > are plenty of formulas where you need to put subscripts. Put your indices in parentheses, separated by commas for multiple indices, as if you had a function with those indices as arguments. For example, Save \\<< \\-> x 'x + SIN(x) + LOG(x) \\>> as F, then 'F(5.)' evaluates as '5. + SIN(5.) + LOG(5.)' -- Virgil === Subject: Re: SpeedUI updated to 9.05 posting-account=w-DOQQoAAACQmN0dBau8S3Wm0dLyE1fg Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) === Subject: Re: I'd like to update Nosy but... >1) Go into the 'Nosy4.1' directory >2) In 'SCAN', change \A=D1\ to \AD1EX D1=A\ >3) In 'RELOCATEi', change \A=D1\ to \AD1EX D1=A\ > >Unfortunately, the screen height is hardcoded in the program at many >places, so one need to understand the whole display logic before making >any change. Well, I have no time to investigate further. is created but it differs from the distribution copy. I suspect the checksum is wrong because the 50g emulator displays an invalid card data message on warmstart and the lib fails to attach. :( Anna === Subject: Re: I'd like to update Nosy but... Le mardi 02 juin 2009, Anna avait \.8ecrit : >>1) Go into the 'Nosy4.1' directory >>2) In 'SCAN', change \A=D1\ to \AD1EX D1=A\ >>3) In 'RELOCATEi', change \A=D1\ to \AD1EX D1=A\ >> >>Unfortunately, the screen height is hardcoded in the program at many >>places, so one need to understand the whole display logic before making >>any change. Well, I have no time to investigate further. > > is created but it differs from the distribution copy. I suspect the > checksum is wrong because the 50g emulator displays an invalid card > data message on warmstart and the lib fails to attach. :( The compiled library is different from the disctributed version because some of the XLIB commands in the distributed version are compressed with BZ (that's what the 1627 library is for). The author provides a small program to build the compressed version (see the 'MAKE' program). You have to fix the checksum with the provided 'FIXCRC' program provided with the sources. === Subject: Re: I'd like to update Nosy but... >The compiled library is different from the disctributed version because >some of the XLIB commands in the distributed version are compressed with >BZ (that's what the 1627 library is for). The author provides a small >program to build the compressed version (see the 'MAKE' program). > >You have to fix the checksum with the provided 'FIXCRC' program provided >with the sources. That's awesome! It is working now so I'll get to work on it. :) === Subject: Hp 48g / 49g / 50g - Advanced User Reference Manual The Hp 48g / 49g / 50g - Advanced User Reference Manual Best price : 20 EUR Here : http://www.priceminister.com/offer?action=desc&aid=218279512 HP is the best ! === Subject: Re: Hp 48g / 49g / 50g - Advanced User Reference Manual posting-account=sOAX1QkAAAC-FcySTSbz29Uk8huUtFRz GTB6; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > The Hp 48g / 49g / 50g - Advanced User Reference Manual > Best price : 20 EUR > Here :http://www.priceminister.com/offer?action=desc&aid=218279512 > HP is the best ! For free at hpcalc.org: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=6374 S.C. === Subject: Re: Hp 48g / 49g / 50g - Advanced User Reference Manual thank you just what i need > The Hp 48g / 49g / 50g - Advanced User Reference Manual > Best price : 20 EUR > Here :http://www.priceminister.com/offer?action=desc&aid=218279512 > HP is the best ! For free at hpcalc.org: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=6374 S.C. === Subject: Re: Hp 48g / 49g / 50g - Advanced User Reference Manual posting-account=zsTFyQoAAAAS6nsjRFf-x7YwaTR_E_kN Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10 GTB5,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > > The Hp 48g / 49g / 50g - Advanced User Reference Manual > > Best price : 20 EUR > > Here :http://www.priceminister.com/offer?action=desc&aid=218279512 > > HP is the best ! > > For free at hpcalc.org: > > http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=6374 > > S.C. It's a printed copy :-) . HP 49g+/48gII Advanced User's Reference Manual in printed copy can be found here too: http://commerce.hpcalc.org/50gaur.php There is also HP 50g User's Guide: http://commerce.hpcalc.org/50gug.php Simone. === Subject: Re: Hp 48g / 49g / 50g - Advanced User Reference Manual posting-account=sOAX1QkAAAC-FcySTSbz29Uk8huUtFRz GTB6; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > It's a printed copy :-) . > I should have clicked the link first :) S.C. === Subject: Re: Having messages and some front-ends in Spanish! > see what you are speaking about. Can you detail a little bit more? I > do not have the 50G AUR, but I have the user's guide located at > http://smendes.com/hp50g.pdf. So, my p. 209 seems not to be linked > with what you say. The application does not have added an entry in the > APPS menu, fortunately, and the messages written in Spanish are also You can get the AUR at http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/hp49gpaur.zip . It's page 209 of the PDF, numbered 3-91. The command should read 0 \\->LANGUAGE (with a space, i.e. 0 is the argument to the command \\->LANGUAGE), where \\-> is the right-arrow. === Subject: Re: Having messages and some front-ends in Spanish! posting-account=Q2CEjQoAAACue5ZDDhUeRzv1w0u8hxZE rv:1.9.1b3) Gecko/20090305 Firefox/3.1b3,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) not > see what you are speaking about. It is the command ARROW LANGUAGE, or ->LANGUAGE. There is a character on the keyboard that is a little right arrow. See it above the 0? You can't type that using regular characters, so a special way of writing it is used. In HP syntax it means in or out. LANGUAGE-> returns the current setting, ->LANGUAGE stores a new one. Find the command in the CAT which is on the 'P' key. Use the silver up arrow from the top to jump to the bottom, and then scroll up 20 or so commands and it will be right around there. Use 0 as input, either in RPN or algebraic mode. TW === Subject: Help identifying calculator model Say guys, This isn't at all about HP calculators, but since there's so much knowledge \ here about calculators in general, I'll ask it anyway: Back in the mid-/late-'80s, Casio had a regular scientific calculator that \ I'm trying to find the model number of. Description as follows: -- Regular scientific calculator, non-programmable -- \Ultra flat\ -- it was very thin, no more than 1/8\ or so -- Black color -- Solar powered (I'm guessing without battery backup, but don't know) -- \Touch\ keys -- there was no actual key movement -- Radio Shack had their own clone of it, that was 100% identical except for \ a different model number Anyone know what machine this might be? I've searched some of the \ calculator \museum\ web sites without success. ---Joel === Subject: Re: Help identifying calculator model > Back in the mid-/late-'80s, Casio had a regular scientific calculator > that I'm trying to find the model number of. Description as follows: > > -- Regular scientific calculator, non-programmable > -- \Ultra flat\ -- it was very thin, no more than 1/8\ or so Thinner than that. > -- Black color > -- Solar powered (I'm guessing without battery backup, but don't know) > -- \Touch\ keys -- there was no actual key movement \Membrane\ keyboard. No missed keys, no bounces :) > -- Radio Shack had their own clone of it, that was 100% identical > except for a different model number > > Anyone know what machine this might be? I've got the \Radio Shack\ branded version (certainly made by Casio) in my desk, at home, still working perfectly, more than 20 years later. As a memory test, I will try to remember to get its model number :) I seem to recall that Casio also made a \four banger\ in exactly the same overall size and style, but I wasn't interested in owning any more than the couple of dozen four-bangers I already had, some in \micro\ size, and some, by Casio, precisely the same size and _thickness_ (thinness?) as a credit card, one of which is still in my wallet, also still working \like new,\ which makes one think that perhaps HP should have had Casio make its products (in Japan), instead of Kinpo (in China): Casio SL-800 Film Card - 1980's http://www.flickr.com/photos/joe-next-door/2760917663/ http://www.datamath.org/Related/Casio/SL-800.htm In that Radio Shack branded Casio scientific thin calculator, by the way, just as in some other similar era Casios, there are four large solar cells at the top, but only three of them are actually used (completely covering any one of the \live\ cells will cause power loss, but covering the \superfluous\ cell makes no difference at all). This looks functionally very similar, though not the \thin one\: http://www.greenlightoffice.com/office/stationery/73342-casio-fx260solar-sci\ entific-calculator-1-line-s-10-character-s-solar-powered-black.html Even the \ruler\ scales on the back (inches and cm, but without numbers) are perfectly accurate, although some calculations aren't -- it has the common \rounding fudge\ and discontinuities in hyperbolics: Speaking of the other models which have been mentioned, I believe I gave away my Casio fx-451 to a high school student, who was doing a science project on calculator [in]accuracy, and I probably still have my fx-98. I've got this one (with a different faceplate) on my bed table: http://www.flickr.com/photos/joe-next-door/3195013551/ Hey, how come mine didn't come with the plastic stand? I guess I'll have to settle for the travel wallet, which has an internal metal plate to protect the keys, even from being pressed while packed in a travel bag. Need a watch? http://www.pocketcalculatorshow.com/nerdwatch/graphics/casmelody.jpg Early history of Casio: http://www.datamath.org/Featured_Companies.htm [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Help identifying calculator model > I seem to recall that Casio also made a \four banger\ > in exactly the same overall size and style > [as the scientific model] Here's that one -- SL-900: http://androo.smugmug.com/gallery/5884166_YzpfJ/12/366674527_MoZVz http://androo.smugmug.com/gallery/5884166_YzpfJ#366674527_MoZVz http://androo.smugmug.com/photos/366674527_MoZVz-M.jpg http://www.devidts.com/be-calc/poc_32647.html Things which have preserved my Casio SL-800 (credit card calc), even in my wallet, for 20 years: o Tyvek(?) credit card protective sleeve, courtesy of my local bank. o A thin \frame\ to put around (not directly over) the LCD, cut from some \ clear vinyl, which \adheres\ to the smooth calc surface and keeps pressure off the \ actual LCD, which otherwise would discolor it (as had once started to occur, but \ recovered). o All of above is sandwiched between two credit cards (the back sides, not the raised numbers :) \Store credit\ cards (perfectly flat without numbers) are of course much better as protectors, and are free from many stores (just don't input any money :) Previous and new links to Casio SL-800 \Film Card\: http://www.flickr.com/photos/joe-next-door/2760917663/ http://www.datamath.org/Related/Casio/SL-800.htm http://androo.smugmug.com/gallery/5884166_YzpfJ#367346084_roVdv Something Sharper: http://androo.smugmug.com/gallery/5884166_YzpfJ#P-2-12 24 years on original batteries (and keyboard :) http://androo.smugmug.com/gallery/5884166_YzpfJ#368572998_4PpTm [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Help identifying calculator model > Things which have preserved my Casio SL-800 (credit card calc), > even in my wallet, for 20 years: That's an impressive life... I found the HP-6s I picked up a couple years ago had a couple of bad \ segments that no one amount of squeezing would fix (even after taking it apart), so I \ ended up tossing it out. While I realize the 6s wasn't a \real\ HP calculator, I still thought it was pretty good, particularly given the diminuitive size. Hmm... I see that you can still buy 6s machines if you look around a bit... \ although $30 is a bit steep: \ http://www.calculatorsource.com/discontinued.html Umpteen years ago before I had really discovered HP calculators (or had the \ money to buy them), the TI-30 Galaxy series looked pretty cool: http://www.datamath.org/Sci/Galaxy/TI-37GalaxySolar.htm -- I suspect now \ they were just following HP's lead there with a \landscape\ oriented machine. ---Joel === Subject: Re: Help identifying calculator model It sure seems today that, while everything's gotten faster and cheaper, there's nowhere near as much \creativity\ in the offerings anymore! :-) I don't know if it was specifically the SL-800 I had, but I had several very \ thin Casio credit card-sized calculators... which all died eventually due to \ being carried on a wallet and sat on. :-) ---Joel === Subject: Re: Help identifying calculator model > Say guys, > > This isn't at all about HP calculators, but since there's so much > knowledge here about calculators in general, I'll ask it anyway: > > Back in the mid-/late-'80s, Casio had a regular scientific calculator that \ > I'm trying to find the model number of. Description as follows: > > -- Regular scientific calculator, non-programmable > -- \Ultra flat\ -- it was very thin, no more than 1/8\ or so > -- Black color > -- Solar powered (I'm guessing without battery backup, but don't know) > -- \Touch\ keys -- there was no actual key movement > -- Radio Shack had their own clone of it, that was 100% identical except > for a different model number > > Anyone know what machine this might be? I've searched some of the > calculator \museum\ web sites without success. > > ---Joel > I have two scientific calculators that may fit your description except that \ they have keys that do depress. Radio Shack EC-4011 - 4 1/2 \ tall and 3\ wide and it unfolds. Once unfolded, the left part has depressable keys. The right part are just pressure-sensitive pads. The solar panel sits above the display and is roughly the same size. Radio Shack EC-4009 - 2 1/4\ tall and 3 1/2\ wide. Little tiny depressable \ keys. The solar panel sits to the right of the display and is larger than the display. They both still work (after years in a storage box). Bob -- === Subject: Re: Help identifying calculator model > Radio Shack EC-4011 - 4 1/2 \ tall and 3\ wide and it unfolds. Once > unfolded, the left part has depressable keys. I think that's the Casio FX-451? --> http://mycalcdb.free.fr/main.php?l=0&id=4914 ... I do recall it being quite \ popular at the time; pretty much every scientific function you could think \ of, and all the extra keys made it easier to use. The calculator I'm thinking of didn't fold, although the keyboard style \ looked a bit like the right-hand side of the fx-451 there (but with a solar cell \ and display, of course). All metal, though. > Radio Shack EC-4009 - 2 1/4\ tall and 3 1/2\ wide. Little tiny \ depressable > keys. The solar panel sits to the right of the display and is larger than \ > the display. I found a picture of it here: http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv019.cgi?read=148032 -- \ Casio fx-98. That looks really cool! I wish they still had some of those little credit card-sized calculators... with RPN and scientific functions, \ of course. :-) ---Joel === Subject: Re: Help identifying calculator model Better fx-98 picture: http://www.smugmug.com/popular/Electronics/2/369348321_L8hBw#369348321_L8hBw\ Very nice! === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more > (I'm using one thumb for the numbers here, and the other thumb for the \ \+\ > button.) > > Anyone have a 35s where this consistently works? I tried this on my 35S using the \two thumbs\ method 5 times and got 45 \ each time. Perhaps my thumbs and/or reaction time aren't as fast as yours, although I was pressing the keys a LOT faster than I normally do when performing calculations. I have yet to encounter a missing keystroke with the 35S in regular use. -- ________________ Steve Keeley San Diego, CA, U.S. === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more My HP16C (binary calculator) missed keystrokes when I typed fast, but that was a very old model, and had a lot of work to do on every keystroke. One of my early Casio LCD scientifics had an opposite problem -- it calculated so fast that sometimes one wasn't sure whether or not a \function\ button had actually been responded to. Eventually, manufacturers (including HP) got the idea that one needs to cause a definite \blink\ or other indication (e.g. an \hourglass\ with a minimum \on\ time, or even a \beep\ or \keyboard click\), to make sure that the user is aware that a response has occurred. Perhaps the \fashion\ has now swung too far, to calculators which once again can't even keep up with keypresses? Or is it a failure to implement \key rollover,\ in which \fast pressing\ may inadvertently cause rollover (two or more keys down simultaneously), which then gets ignored? If someone said that they could cause this even by rapidly pressing the same key, then perhaps not -- unless \spongy keys\ also simply do not release fast enough :) Or is it so much \debouncing\ (a distinct issue with 49G+ ?) that it considers even normal repeats to be \bounces\? Whatever the case, no Casio or Sharp product of mine has ever had any such problem, nor had any keyboard failure at all -- what trade secrets do they know? [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more \BTW, how do you like the Sharp EL-W516B?\ I like it a lot. For $20, it's quite impressive! Amazon has a bunch of reviews that do a good job comparing it to the main competition, which is the Casio FX-115ES; I generally agree with them: Generally the Sharp is better (as it should be, as it's several years newer \ than the Casio), although the Casio has a couple of significant features \ that the Sharp doesn't. Compared to an HP 35s: -- In generally it's nowhere near as powerful owing to not being \ programmable, of course. -- It has solvers built in for simultaneous equations up to 4x4, quadratic \ and cubic equations, and something like 8 different regression types. The 35s \ has solvers for 2x2 and 3x3 built-in and a few regressions, but everything else \ the 35s was a quadratic solver.) -- The 35s computes integrals better; I was a bit incredulous that the Sharp \ literally just picks a number of evenly spaced points (you can specify how many -- 100 is the default) and multiplies f(x)*dx and sums -- the simplest \ possible approximation of an integral. Truth be told, though, I've never \ used integrals in a real program on the 35s... although I have a couple of times \ on the 50g. -- The solver on the 35s is much more flexible: The Sharp solves an expression, f(x), to be equal to zero. The unknown must be the variable \ 'x', and it's up to you to change an equation in the form of f(x)=k (or whatever) \ to the expressoin f(x)-k. Even the Casio is more flexible here... -- There are standalone buttons (D1-D4) that you can assign any function you \ feel like to. This nicely solves the problem of, \I use the pi key a lot \ and it sucks that it's a shifted key!\ -- on the Sharp you'd just assign pi to, \ e.g., D1 and now it's only one keystroke rather than two. -- The 4 directional arrows double as four \function\ memories where you \ can save and recall algebraic expressions. Very similar to the 35s's equation list, except that you're limited to 4 and the Sharp actually just inserts whatever's in the memory into the current expression, so if you have a \ snippet of an equation you use again and again, it can save some typing. I stuck \ the parallel impedance equation into one memory and the equations for converting \ to/from dB into two others. (You can use the \ANS\ variable to have the equation refer to the last computed result.) -- Using complex numbers on the Sharp is a different operating \mode\ \ (instead of complex numbers being just a different object type as they are on the 35s/50g), and the operations you can perform on them are quite limited: \ Pretty much just addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, and keys such \ as x^2 and x^3 that effectively do the same thing. But none of the regular \ \scientific\ functions like square root or the transcendental functions operate with complex arguments. You also loses the main six memories (A-F) \ in complex mode... indeed, you're left with only one regular memory (M), \ although you could use the four \function\ memories in a pinch. -- Base-n conversion is done much better than on the 35s... pressing hex/bin/oct/pent (base 5!) really just changes the display mode of the calculator, at which point the keyboard is redefined so that memory keys A-F \ enter the digits A-F and the various scientific function keys become AND/OR/XOR/etc. In other words, no menu selection of logical operators \ (which even the Casio FX115ES requires); it all works quickly and intuitively, and \ as soon as you hit \dec\ the keyboard reverts back to all the regular key definitions. -- Sharp paid attention to how the display is used; you never have a \ situation where you need to scroll just to see a numeric result, as the 35s requires \ at times. (Complex results are displayed on two lines...) They also have a \ key that rotates through up to three display represenations: Regular floating point, a \mixed\ mode with radicals and proper fractions (as appropriate), \ and a mixed mode where the fractions are improper. This is quite handy in that \ it encourages you to keep the machine in \write view\ mode, where the \ mini-CAS system is active and fractions and radicals are kept as such when possible. \ (On the Casio it was a shifted function to get from mixed mode to a decimal, \ which caused most people to just use \line\ mode and forget about the mini-CAS.) -- As the above might imply, fractions are handled nicely, although there isn't the \/c\ functionality that the 35s has; the Sharp always reduces to \ the least common denominator. -- An interesting/odd feature is that you can program two lines of text to \ be displayed when you hit the \off\ button... this is suggested to be, e.g., \ your name and phone number in case the calculator is stolen, and that's what I programmed, but it occurs to me that a sticker on the back is probably even \ better for this functionality. :-) -- The keyboard layout is pretty good -- STO and RCL get their own keys! I \ would have ditched giving hyp (as in hyperbolic sin/cos/tan) its own key (seriously, how many people use those functions on anything approaching a regular basis?) and used it to make square root or 1/x unshifted. -- It has a few more conversion functions and probably a few more constants \ than the 35s, but I've never needed any the 35s didn't have. The Sharp does \ have a nice feature in that if you press a letter in the list of constants \ or conversions, it'll immediately move you to the items that start with that letter. -- The keyboard is a bit jigglier than the 35s's -- definitely a notch lower \ in build quality -- but I found it perfectly usable. -- And of course the Sharp doesn't have RPN, which is disappointing, but obviously not unexpected when other than HP almost no machine does. For a \throwaround\ calculator, it's easily worth the $20. For the educational market, it'd certainly be OK through middle school and much of high school; kids who were thinking of engineering paths would probably already want something a bit programmable in their later years, at which \ point a 50g (or TI, if you insist) would be best. Back in the late '80s, I had a Casio FX-4000p programmable calculator. \ While the programming was quite limited (only 10 programs and some hundred of \ steps, although it did have branching and all), if I had to choose between the \ 4000p and the EL-W516B, I'd take the Sharp... although I'd whine a bit that the programming functionality was absent! ---Joel === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more <78j696F1mlv33U1@mid.individual.net> \ posting-account=B0WVuwoAAAB0jipMiVc4s-L42AIMUuHa Gecko/2009050519 Firefox/3.0.9,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > \BTW, how do you like the Sharp EL-W516B?\ > > I like it a lot. ÊFor $20, it's quite impressive! > > Amazon has a bunch of reviews that do a good job comparing it to the main > competition, which is the Casio FX-115ES; I generally agree with them: > Generally the Sharp is better (as it should be, as it's several years \ newer > than the Casio), although the Casio has a couple of significant features \ that > the Sharp doesn't. ÊCompared to an HP 35s: > > -- In generally it's nowhere near as powerful owing to not being \ programmable, > of course. > -- It has solvers built in for simultaneous equations up to 4x4, quadratic \ and > cubic equations, and something like 8 different regression types. \ ÊThe 35s has > solvers for 2x2 and 3x3 built-in and a few regressions, but everything \ else > the 35s was a quadratic solver.) > -- The 35s computes integrals better; I was a bit incredulous that the \ Sharp > literally just picks a number of evenly spaced points (you can specify \ how > many -- 100 is the default) and multiplies f(x)*dx and sums -- the \ simplest > possible approximation of an integral. ÊTruth be told, \ though, I've never used > integrals in a real program on the 35s... although I have a couple of \ times on > the 50g. > -- The solver on the 35s is much more flexible: The Sharp solves an > expression, f(x), to be equal to zero. ÊThe unknown must be \ the variable 'x', > and it's up to you to change an equation in the form of f(x)=k (or \ whatever) > to the expressoin f(x)-k. ÊEven the Casio is more flexible \ here... > -- There are standalone buttons (D1-D4) that you can assign any function \ you > feel like to. ÊThis nicely solves the problem of, \I use the \ pi key a lot and > it sucks that it's a shifted key!\ -- on the Sharp you'd just assign pi \ to, > e.g., D1 and now it's only one keystroke rather than two. > -- The 4 directional arrows double as four \function\ memories where you \ can > save and recall algebraic expressions. ÊVery similar to the \ 35s's equation > list, except that you're limited to 4 and the Sharp actually just inserts > whatever's in the memory into the current expression, so if you have a \ snippet > of an equation you use again and again, it can save some typing. \ ÊI stuck the > parallel impedance equation into one memory and the equations for \ converting > to/from dB into two others. Ê(You can use the \ANS\ \ variable to have the > equation refer to the last computed result.) > -- Using complex numbers on the Sharp is a different operating \mode\ \ (instead > of complex numbers being just a different object type as they are on the > 35s/50g), and the operations you can perform on them are quite limited: \ Pretty > much just addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, and keys \ such > as x^2 and x^3 that effectively do the same thing. ÊBut none \ of the regular > \scientific\ functions like square root or the transcendental functions > operate with complex arguments. ÊYou also loses the main six \ memories (A-F) in > complex mode... indeed, you're left with only one regular memory (M), \ although > you could use the four \function\ memories in a pinch. > -- Base-n conversion is done much better than on the 35s... pressing > hex/bin/oct/pent (base 5!) really just changes the display mode of the > calculator, at which point the keyboard is redefined so that memory keys \ A-F > enter the digits A-F and the various scientific function keys become > AND/OR/XOR/etc. ÊIn other words, no menu selection of logical \ operators (which > even the Casio FX115ES requires); it all works quickly and intuitively, \ and as > soon as you hit \dec\ the keyboard reverts back to all the regular key > definitions. > -- Sharp paid attention to how the display is used; you never have a \ situation > where you need to scroll just to see a numeric result, as the 35s requires \ at > times. Ê(Complex results are displayed on two lines...) \ ÊThey also have a key > that rotates through up to three display represenations: Regular floating > point, a \mixed\ mode with radicals and proper fractions (as \ appropriate), and > a mixed mode where the fractions are improper. ÊThis is quite \ handy in that it > encourages you to keep the machine in \write view\ mode, where the \ mini-CAS > system is active and fractions and radicals are kept as such when \ possible. > (On the Casio it was a shifted function to get from mixed mode to a \ decimal, > which caused most people to just use \line\ mode and forget about the > mini-CAS.) > -- As the above might imply, fractions are handled nicely, although there > isn't the \/c\ functionality that the 35s has; the Sharp always reduces \ to the > least common denominator. > -- An interesting/odd feature is that you can program two lines of text to \ be > displayed when you hit the \off\ button... this is suggested to be, \ e.g., your > name and phone number in case the calculator is stolen, and that's what I > programmed, but it occurs to me that a sticker on the back is probably \ even > better for this functionality. :-) > -- The keyboard layout is pretty good -- STO and RCL get their own keys! \ ÊI > would have ditched giving hyp (as in hyperbolic sin/cos/tan) its own key > (seriously, how many people use those functions on anything approaching a > regular basis?) and used it to make square root or 1/x unshifted. > -- It has a few more conversion functions and probably a few more \ constants > than the 35s, but I've never needed any the 35s didn't have. \ ÊThe Sharp does > have a nice feature in that if you press a letter in the list of constants \ or > conversions, it'll immediately move you to the items that start with that > letter. > -- The keyboard is a bit jigglier than the 35s's -- definitely a notch \ lower > in build quality -- but I found it perfectly usable. > -- And of course the Sharp doesn't have RPN, which is disappointing, but > obviously not unexpected when other than HP almost no machine does. > > For a \throwaround\ calculator, it's easily worth the $20. \ ÊFor the > educational market, it'd certainly be OK through middle school and much \ of > high school; kids who were thinking of engineering paths would probably > already want something a bit programmable in their later years, at which \ point > a 50g (or TI, if you insist) would be best. > > Back in the late '80s, I had a Casio FX-4000p programmable calculator. \ ÊWhile > the programming was quite limited (only 10 programs and some hundred of \ steps, > although it did have branching and all), if I had to choose between the \ 4000p > and the EL-W516B, I'd take the Sharp... although I'd whine a bit that the > programming functionality was absent! > > ---Joel That is an impressive feedback! I, too, like both the Casio/Sharp. At least for their intended purposes. === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more reply-type=response Importance: Normal > I have two HP 35s calculators to play with, and on neither one can I > usually enter the sequence... > > 1 enter 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 + 9 + > > ...and obtain the correct answer of 45 if I enter the sequence as rapidly \ > as I can move my fingers -- sooner or later one of the keystrokes is > missed so the computation becomes corrupted. (I'm using one thumb for the \ > numbers here, and the other thumb for the \+\ button.) I get an answer of 35 consistently on a very lightly used calculator (no discernable key wear) Maybe it's the New Math - HP Style. Tom Lake === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more posting-account=sOAX1QkAAAC-FcySTSbz29Uk8huUtFRz GTB6; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > I get an answer of 35 consistently on a very lightly used calculator > (no discernable key wear) > > Maybe it's the New Math - HP Style. > > Tom Lake I wonder which two numbers the calculator is missing...only four possibilities S.C. === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more I purchased a HP35S for my daughter about a month ago so it is quite new, but no problems with it so far. We can press the keys as quickly as our abilities will allow without missing a number. Whilst I normally use a 50G, the 35S is a great feeling calculator & really \ reminds me of the 2 HP41's I have. Maybe they have improved the latest batch or just lucky so far. Michael > > > > > It's sad that this occurs, because the 35s has the best-feeling keyboard \ > > (to > > my fingers) of any current HP calculator, but it's too unreliable to be > > trusted. > > Agreed -- the mechanical design of the 35s keyboard is very good. I think > it's sad that HP largely perfected keyboards over 35 years ago now (I > can't > imagine the original HP 35 had this problem!) and somehow they've > regressed to > being worse than cheap $20 calculators in this particular area. :-( > > ---Joel The missing keystrokes also occur in the silver 17bii+. Curious, I tried this exercise on both the older 17bii and the 42s. Both work perfectly every time!!! The 42s instantly showed the result of each keystroke. The 17bii, however, appeared to be slower than the 42s and or my fast finger. It quickly flashed each number, then the result of each addition before showing the final result, after I already finished entering the last number. In short, it took a second or so after I pressed number 9 for the result to show. Maybe HP needs to update the ROM to account for keystrokes buffer. BTW, how do you like the Sharp EL-W516B? === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more <78j696F1mlv33U1@mid.individual.net> \ posting-account=B0WVuwoAAAB0jipMiVc4s-L42AIMUuHa Gecko/2009050519 Firefox/3.0.9,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) On Jun 2, 6:13Êam, \Michael & Maria Lopez\ \ > I purchased a HP35S for my daughter about a month ago so it is quite new, > but no problems with it so far. We can press the keys as quickly as our > abilities will allow without missing a number. > Maybe HP listens to the complaints about the keyboards and quietly updates or correct the problem in the new production? Glad to hear that you have no problems. I am hoping that is the sign that HP continues making improvements based on feedback here and, perhaps, the MoHPC or HP business forums. The HP35s is still quite useable provided that the users are not too quick with keystrokes. It certainly has the look and feel of a tool made for professionals. TI/Casio/Sharp are no match in that department. BTW, what grade is your daughter in? One of my nieces will start 9th grade in the Fall. I don't know what kind of calculator she will be required/recommended to have, but I kinda suspect that it will be TI of some sort. Just curious. === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more My daughter recently commenced at University & is undertaking an advanced science degree but has little experience with RPN calculators. She claims I \ bought the HP 35S to indoctrinate her into the World of HP calculators but off course I deny all ;). Michael On Jun 2, 6:13 am, \Michael & Maria Lopez\ > I purchased a HP35S for my daughter about a month ago so it is quite new, > but no problems with it so far. We can press the keys as quickly as our > abilities will allow without missing a number. > Maybe HP listens to the complaints about the keyboards and quietly updates or correct the problem in the new production? Glad to hear that you have no problems. I am hoping that is the sign that HP continues making improvements based on feedback here and, perhaps, the MoHPC or HP business forums. The HP35s is still quite useable provided that the users are not too quick with keystrokes. It certainly has the look and feel of a tool made for professionals. TI/Casio/Sharp are no match in that department. BTW, what grade is your daughter in? One of my nieces will start 9th grade in the Fall. I don't know what kind of calculator she will be required/recommended to have, but I kinda suspect that it will be TI of some sort. Just curious. === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more <78j696F1mlv33U1@mid.individual.net> \ posting-account=sOAX1QkAAAC-FcySTSbz29Uk8huUtFRz GTB6; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > Maybe HP listens to the complaints about the keyboards and quietly > updates or correct the problem in the new production? > > Glad to hear that you have no problems. I am hoping that is the sign > that HP continues making improvements based on feedback here and, > perhaps, the MoHPC or HP business forums. > I'm still waiting for a ROM revision to fix some 2-year-old bugs: The HP 35s overview on HP's website contains the following quote: \Scientific projects require accuracy, functionality and dependability for success. The HP 35s scientific programmable calculator delivers themÑand moreÑ\ I think it fails in the accuracy department (even as the 48/49 series is amazingly accurate). S.C. === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more \I'm still waiting for a ROM revision to fix some 2-year-old bugs:\ Same here -- in fact #15 on that list is one I discovered, and it was from a \ real program I'd written for work too, not just an obscure programming exercise looking to test \corner cases\ or somesuch. I'm disappointed that HP hasn't given any indication they intend to fix \ these after so long. While some might take awhile to track down (e.g., the \sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't,\ like #17) and some need \ attention from someone well-versed in numerical methods (e.g., #2/#3), the vast \ majority of those bugs look like easy fixes that any programmer could crank out in no \ more than a week or so worth of work. :-( Truly scary bugs like #15 and #16 combined with an unreliable keyboard make \ the 35s a calculator I can't recommend to most people. For \serious\ work \ the 50g still takes the top spot, and for a \throwaround\ machine, the $20 \ Sharp, Casio, and TI \textbook display\ calculators are a very good value. ---Joel === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more <78j696F1mlv33U1@mid.individual.net> \ posting-account=B0WVuwoAAAB0jipMiVc4s-L42AIMUuHa Gecko/2009050519 Firefox/3.0.9,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > \I'm still waiting for a ROM revision to fix some 2-year-old bugs:\ > > Same here -- in fact #15 on that list is one I discovered, and it was from \ a > real program I'd written for work too, not just an obscure programming > exercise looking to test \corner cases\ or somesuch. > > I'm disappointed that HP hasn't given any indication they intend to fix \ these > after so long. ÊWhile some might take awhile to track down \ (e.g., the > \sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't,\ like #17) and some need \ attention > from someone well-versed in numerical methods (e.g., #2/#3), the vast \ majority > of those bugs look like easy fixes that any programmer could crank out in \ no > more than a week or so worth of work. :-( > > Truly scary bugs like #15 and #16 combined with an unreliable keyboard \ make > the 35s a calculator I can't recommend to most people. ÊFor \ \serious\ work the > 50g still takes the top spot, and for a \throwaround\ machine, the $20 \ Sharp, > Casio, and TI \textbook display\ calculators are a very good value. > > ---Joel The 35s has been out more than long enough. HP should have fix these issues. At least some of them. For serious work, I don't want to wonder if I missed the keystrokes because the result look strange. --IMQ === Subject: Re: SpeedUI updated to 9.05 posting-account=w-DOQQoAAACQmN0dBau8S3Wm0dLyE1fg Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) === Subject: Re: I'd like to update Nosy but... >1) Go into the 'Nosy4.1' directory >2) In 'SCAN', change \A=D1\ to \AD1EX D1=A\ >3) In 'RELOCATEi', change \A=D1\ to \AD1EX D1=A\ > >Unfortunately, the screen height is hardcoded in the program at many >places, so one need to understand the whole display logic before making >any change. Well, I have no time to investigate further. is created but it differs from the distribution copy. I suspect the checksum is wrong because the 50g emulator displays an invalid card data message on warmstart and the lib fails to attach. :( Anna === Subject: Re: I'd like to update Nosy but... Le mardi 02 juin 2009, Anna avait \.8ecrit : >>1) Go into the 'Nosy4.1' directory >>2) In 'SCAN', change \A=D1\ to \AD1EX D1=A\ >>3) In 'RELOCATEi', change \A=D1\ to \AD1EX D1=A\ >> >>Unfortunately, the screen height is hardcoded in the program at many >>places, so one need to understand the whole display logic before making >>any change. Well, I have no time to investigate further. > > is created but it differs from the distribution copy. I suspect the > checksum is wrong because the 50g emulator displays an invalid card > data message on warmstart and the lib fails to attach. :( The compiled library is different from the disctributed version because some of the XLIB commands in the distributed version are compressed with BZ (that's what the 1627 library is for). The author provides a small program to build the compressed version (see the 'MAKE' program). You have to fix the checksum with the provided 'FIXCRC' program provided with the sources. === Subject: Re: I'd like to update Nosy but... >The compiled library is different from the disctributed version because >some of the XLIB commands in the distributed version are compressed with >BZ (that's what the 1627 library is for). The author provides a small >program to build the compressed version (see the 'MAKE' program). > >You have to fix the checksum with the provided 'FIXCRC' program provided >with the sources. That's awesome! It is working now so I'll get to work on it. :) === Subject: Hp 48g / 49g / 50g - Advanced User Reference Manual The Hp 48g / 49g / 50g - Advanced User Reference Manual Best price : 20 EUR Here : http://www.priceminister.com/offer?action=desc&aid=218279512 HP is the best ! === Subject: Re: Hp 48g / 49g / 50g - Advanced User Reference Manual posting-account=sOAX1QkAAAC-FcySTSbz29Uk8huUtFRz GTB6; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > The Hp 48g / 49g / 50g - Advanced User Reference Manual > Best price : 20 EUR > Here :http://www.priceminister.com/offer?action=desc&aid=218279512 > HP is the best ! For free at hpcalc.org: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=6374 S.C. === Subject: Re: Hp 48g / 49g / 50g - Advanced User Reference Manual thank you just what i need > The Hp 48g / 49g / 50g - Advanced User Reference Manual > Best price : 20 EUR > Here :http://www.priceminister.com/offer?action=desc&aid=218279512 > HP is the best ! For free at hpcalc.org: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=6374 S.C. === Subject: Re: Hp 48g / 49g / 50g - Advanced User Reference Manual posting-account=zsTFyQoAAAAS6nsjRFf-x7YwaTR_E_kN Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10 GTB5,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > > The Hp 48g / 49g / 50g - Advanced User Reference Manual > > Best price : 20 EUR > > Here :http://www.priceminister.com/offer?action=desc&aid=218279512 > > HP is the best ! > > For free at hpcalc.org: > > http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=6374 > > S.C. It's a printed copy :-) . HP 49g+/48gII Advanced User's Reference Manual in printed copy can be found here too: http://commerce.hpcalc.org/50gaur.php There is also HP 50g User's Guide: http://commerce.hpcalc.org/50gug.php Simone. === Subject: Re: Hp 48g / 49g / 50g - Advanced User Reference Manual posting-account=sOAX1QkAAAC-FcySTSbz29Uk8huUtFRz GTB6; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > It's a printed copy :-) . > I should have clicked the link first :) S.C. === Subject: Re: Having messages and some front-ends in Spanish! > see what you are speaking about. Can you detail a little bit more? I > do not have the 50G AUR, but I have the user's guide located at > http://smendes.com/hp50g.pdf. So, my p. 209 seems not to be linked > with what you say. The application does not have added an entry in the > APPS menu, fortunately, and the messages written in Spanish are also You can get the AUR at http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/hp49gpaur.zip . It's page 209 of the PDF, numbered 3-91. The command should read 0 \\->LANGUAGE (with a space, i.e. 0 is the argument to the command \\->LANGUAGE), where \\-> is the right-arrow. === Subject: Re: Having messages and some front-ends in Spanish! posting-account=Q2CEjQoAAACue5ZDDhUeRzv1w0u8hxZE rv:1.9.1b3) Gecko/20090305 Firefox/3.1b3,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) not > see what you are speaking about. It is the command ARROW LANGUAGE, or ->LANGUAGE. There is a character on the keyboard that is a little right arrow. See it above the 0? You can't type that using regular characters, so a special way of writing it is used. In HP syntax it means in or out. LANGUAGE-> returns the current setting, ->LANGUAGE stores a new one. Find the command in the CAT which is on the 'P' key. Use the silver up arrow from the top to jump to the bottom, and then scroll up 20 or so commands and it will be right around there. Use 0 as input, either in RPN or algebraic mode. TW === Subject: Help identifying calculator model Say guys, This isn't at all about HP calculators, but since there's so much knowledge \ here about calculators in general, I'll ask it anyway: Back in the mid-/late-'80s, Casio had a regular scientific calculator that \ I'm trying to find the model number of. Description as follows: -- Regular scientific calculator, non-programmable -- \Ultra flat\ -- it was very thin, no more than 1/8\ or so -- Black color -- Solar powered (I'm guessing without battery backup, but don't know) -- \Touch\ keys -- there was no actual key movement -- Radio Shack had their own clone of it, that was 100% identical except for \ a different model number Anyone know what machine this might be? I've searched some of the \ calculator \museum\ web sites without success. ---Joel === Subject: Re: Help identifying calculator model > Back in the mid-/late-'80s, Casio had a regular scientific calculator > that I'm trying to find the model number of. Description as follows: > > -- Regular scientific calculator, non-programmable > -- \Ultra flat\ -- it was very thin, no more than 1/8\ or so Thinner than that. > -- Black color > -- Solar powered (I'm guessing without battery backup, but don't know) > -- \Touch\ keys -- there was no actual key movement \Membrane\ keyboard. No missed keys, no bounces :) > -- Radio Shack had their own clone of it, that was 100% identical > except for a different model number > > Anyone know what machine this might be? I've got the \Radio Shack\ branded version (certainly made by Casio) in my desk, at home, still working perfectly, more than 20 years later. As a memory test, I will try to remember to get its model number :) I seem to recall that Casio also made a \four banger\ in exactly the same overall size and style, but I wasn't interested in owning any more than the couple of dozen four-bangers I already had, some in \micro\ size, and some, by Casio, precisely the same size and _thickness_ (thinness?) as a credit card, one of which is still in my wallet, also still working \like new,\ which makes one think that perhaps HP should have had Casio make its products (in Japan), instead of Kinpo (in China): Casio SL-800 Film Card - 1980's http://www.flickr.com/photos/joe-next-door/2760917663/ http://www.datamath.org/Related/Casio/SL-800.htm In that Radio Shack branded Casio scientific thin calculator, by the way, just as in some other similar era Casios, there are four large solar cells at the top, but only three of them are actually used (completely covering any one of the \live\ cells will cause power loss, but covering the \superfluous\ cell makes no difference at all). This looks functionally very similar, though not the \thin one\: http://www.greenlightoffice.com/office/stationery/73342-casio-fx260solar-sci\ entific-calculator-1-line-s-10-character-s-solar-powered-black.html Even the \ruler\ scales on the back (inches and cm, but without numbers) are perfectly accurate, although some calculations aren't -- it has the common \rounding fudge\ and discontinuities in hyperbolics: Speaking of the other models which have been mentioned, I believe I gave away my Casio fx-451 to a high school student, who was doing a science project on calculator [in]accuracy, and I probably still have my fx-98. I've got this one (with a different faceplate) on my bed table: http://www.flickr.com/photos/joe-next-door/3195013551/ Hey, how come mine didn't come with the plastic stand? I guess I'll have to settle for the travel wallet, which has an internal metal plate to protect the keys, even from being pressed while packed in a travel bag. Need a watch? http://www.pocketcalculatorshow.com/nerdwatch/graphics/casmelody.jpg Early history of Casio: http://www.datamath.org/Featured_Companies.htm [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Help identifying calculator model > I seem to recall that Casio also made a \four banger\ > in exactly the same overall size and style > [as the scientific model] Here's that one -- SL-900: http://androo.smugmug.com/gallery/5884166_YzpfJ/12/366674527_MoZVz http://androo.smugmug.com/gallery/5884166_YzpfJ#366674527_MoZVz http://androo.smugmug.com/photos/366674527_MoZVz-M.jpg http://www.devidts.com/be-calc/poc_32647.html Things which have preserved my Casio SL-800 (credit card calc), even in my wallet, for 20 years: o Tyvek(?) credit card protective sleeve, courtesy of my local bank. o A thin \frame\ to put around (not directly over) the LCD, cut from some \ clear vinyl, which \adheres\ to the smooth calc surface and keeps pressure off the \ actual LCD, which otherwise would discolor it (as had once started to occur, but \ recovered). o All of above is sandwiched between two credit cards (the back sides, not the raised numbers :) \Store credit\ cards (perfectly flat without numbers) are of course much better as protectors, and are free from many stores (just don't input any money :) Previous and new links to Casio SL-800 \Film Card\: http://www.flickr.com/photos/joe-next-door/2760917663/ http://www.datamath.org/Related/Casio/SL-800.htm http://androo.smugmug.com/gallery/5884166_YzpfJ#367346084_roVdv Something Sharper: http://androo.smugmug.com/gallery/5884166_YzpfJ#P-2-12 24 years on original batteries (and keyboard :) http://androo.smugmug.com/gallery/5884166_YzpfJ#368572998_4PpTm [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Help identifying calculator model > Things which have preserved my Casio SL-800 (credit card calc), > even in my wallet, for 20 years: That's an impressive life... I found the HP-6s I picked up a couple years ago had a couple of bad \ segments that no one amount of squeezing would fix (even after taking it apart), so I \ ended up tossing it out. While I realize the 6s wasn't a \real\ HP calculator, I still thought it was pretty good, particularly given the diminuitive size. Hmm... I see that you can still buy 6s machines if you look around a bit... \ although $30 is a bit steep: \ http://www.calculatorsource.com/discontinued.html Umpteen years ago before I had really discovered HP calculators (or had the \ money to buy them), the TI-30 Galaxy series looked pretty cool: http://www.datamath.org/Sci/Galaxy/TI-37GalaxySolar.htm -- I suspect now \ they were just following HP's lead there with a \landscape\ oriented machine. ---Joel === Subject: Re: Help identifying calculator model It sure seems today that, while everything's gotten faster and cheaper, there's nowhere near as much \creativity\ in the offerings anymore! :-) I don't know if it was specifically the SL-800 I had, but I had several very \ thin Casio credit card-sized calculators... which all died eventually due to \ being carried on a wallet and sat on. :-) ---Joel === Subject: Re: Help identifying calculator model > Say guys, > > This isn't at all about HP calculators, but since there's so much > knowledge here about calculators in general, I'll ask it anyway: > > Back in the mid-/late-'80s, Casio had a regular scientific calculator that \ > I'm trying to find the model number of. Description as follows: > > -- Regular scientific calculator, non-programmable > -- \Ultra flat\ -- it was very thin, no more than 1/8\ or so > -- Black color > -- Solar powered (I'm guessing without battery backup, but don't know) > -- \Touch\ keys -- there was no actual key movement > -- Radio Shack had their own clone of it, that was 100% identical except > for a different model number > > Anyone know what machine this might be? I've searched some of the > calculator \museum\ web sites without success. > > ---Joel > I have two scientific calculators that may fit your description except that \ they have keys that do depress. Radio Shack EC-4011 - 4 1/2 \ tall and 3\ wide and it unfolds. Once unfolded, the left part has depressable keys. The right part are just pressure-sensitive pads. The solar panel sits above the display and is roughly the same size. Radio Shack EC-4009 - 2 1/4\ tall and 3 1/2\ wide. Little tiny depressable \ keys. The solar panel sits to the right of the display and is larger than the display. They both still work (after years in a storage box). Bob -- === Subject: Re: Help identifying calculator model > Radio Shack EC-4011 - 4 1/2 \ tall and 3\ wide and it unfolds. Once > unfolded, the left part has depressable keys. I think that's the Casio FX-451? --> http://mycalcdb.free.fr/main.php?l=0&id=4914 ... I do recall it being quite \ popular at the time; pretty much every scientific function you could think \ of, and all the extra keys made it easier to use. The calculator I'm thinking of didn't fold, although the keyboard style \ looked a bit like the right-hand side of the fx-451 there (but with a solar cell \ and display, of course). All metal, though. > Radio Shack EC-4009 - 2 1/4\ tall and 3 1/2\ wide. Little tiny \ depressable > keys. The solar panel sits to the right of the display and is larger than \ > the display. I found a picture of it here: http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv019.cgi?read=148032 -- \ Casio fx-98. That looks really cool! I wish they still had some of those little credit card-sized calculators... with RPN and scientific functions, \ of course. :-) ---Joel === Subject: Re: Help identifying calculator model Better fx-98 picture: http://www.smugmug.com/popular/Electronics/2/369348321_L8hBw#369348321_L8hBw\ Very nice! === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more > (I'm using one thumb for the numbers here, and the other thumb for the \ \+\ > button.) > > Anyone have a 35s where this consistently works? I tried this on my 35S using the \two thumbs\ method 5 times and got 45 \ each time. Perhaps my thumbs and/or reaction time aren't as fast as yours, although I was pressing the keys a LOT faster than I normally do when performing calculations. I have yet to encounter a missing keystroke with the 35S in regular use. -- ________________ Steve Keeley San Diego, CA, U.S. === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more My HP16C (binary calculator) missed keystrokes when I typed fast, but that was a very old model, and had a lot of work to do on every keystroke. One of my early Casio LCD scientifics had an opposite problem -- it calculated so fast that sometimes one wasn't sure whether or not a \function\ button had actually been responded to. Eventually, manufacturers (including HP) got the idea that one needs to cause a definite \blink\ or other indication (e.g. an \hourglass\ with a minimum \on\ time, or even a \beep\ or \keyboard click\), to make sure that the user is aware that a response has occurred. Perhaps the \fashion\ has now swung too far, to calculators which once again can't even keep up with keypresses? Or is it a failure to implement \key rollover,\ in which \fast pressing\ may inadvertently cause rollover (two or more keys down simultaneously), which then gets ignored? If someone said that they could cause this even by rapidly pressing the same key, then perhaps not -- unless \spongy keys\ also simply do not release fast enough :) Or is it so much \debouncing\ (a distinct issue with 49G+ ?) that it considers even normal repeats to be \bounces\? Whatever the case, no Casio or Sharp product of mine has ever had any such problem, nor had any keyboard failure at all -- what trade secrets do they know? [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more \BTW, how do you like the Sharp EL-W516B?\ I like it a lot. For $20, it's quite impressive! Amazon has a bunch of reviews that do a good job comparing it to the main competition, which is the Casio FX-115ES; I generally agree with them: Generally the Sharp is better (as it should be, as it's several years newer \ than the Casio), although the Casio has a couple of significant features \ that the Sharp doesn't. Compared to an HP 35s: -- In generally it's nowhere near as powerful owing to not being \ programmable, of course. -- It has solvers built in for simultaneous equations up to 4x4, quadratic \ and cubic equations, and something like 8 different regression types. The 35s \ has solvers for 2x2 and 3x3 built-in and a few regressions, but everything else \ the 35s was a quadratic solver.) -- The 35s computes integrals better; I was a bit incredulous that the Sharp \ literally just picks a number of evenly spaced points (you can specify how many -- 100 is the default) and multiplies f(x)*dx and sums -- the simplest \ possible approximation of an integral. Truth be told, though, I've never \ used integrals in a real program on the 35s... although I have a couple of times \ on the 50g. -- The solver on the 35s is much more flexible: The Sharp solves an expression, f(x), to be equal to zero. The unknown must be the variable \ 'x', and it's up to you to change an equation in the form of f(x)=k (or whatever) \ to the expressoin f(x)-k. Even the Casio is more flexible here... -- There are standalone buttons (D1-D4) that you can assign any function you \ feel like to. This nicely solves the problem of, \I use the pi key a lot \ and it sucks that it's a shifted key!\ -- on the Sharp you'd just assign pi to, \ e.g., D1 and now it's only one keystroke rather than two. -- The 4 directional arrows double as four \function\ memories where you \ can save and recall algebraic expressions. Very similar to the 35s's equation list, except that you're limited to 4 and the Sharp actually just inserts whatever's in the memory into the current expression, so if you have a \ snippet of an equation you use again and again, it can save some typing. I stuck \ the parallel impedance equation into one memory and the equations for converting \ to/from dB into two others. (You can use the \ANS\ variable to have the equation refer to the last computed result.) -- Using complex numbers on the Sharp is a different operating \mode\ \ (instead of complex numbers being just a different object type as they are on the 35s/50g), and the operations you can perform on them are quite limited: \ Pretty much just addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, and keys such \ as x^2 and x^3 that effectively do the same thing. But none of the regular \ \scientific\ functions like square root or the transcendental functions operate with complex arguments. You also loses the main six memories (A-F) \ in complex mode... indeed, you're left with only one regular memory (M), \ although you could use the four \function\ memories in a pinch. -- Base-n conversion is done much better than on the 35s... pressing hex/bin/oct/pent (base 5!) really just changes the display mode of the calculator, at which point the keyboard is redefined so that memory keys A-F \ enter the digits A-F and the various scientific function keys become AND/OR/XOR/etc. In other words, no menu selection of logical operators \ (which even the Casio FX115ES requires); it all works quickly and intuitively, and \ as soon as you hit \dec\ the keyboard reverts back to all the regular key definitions. -- Sharp paid attention to how the display is used; you never have a \ situation where you need to scroll just to see a numeric result, as the 35s requires \ at times. (Complex results are displayed on two lines...) They also have a \ key that rotates through up to three display represenations: Regular floating point, a \mixed\ mode with radicals and proper fractions (as appropriate), \ and a mixed mode where the fractions are improper. This is quite handy in that \ it encourages you to keep the machine in \write view\ mode, where the \ mini-CAS system is active and fractions and radicals are kept as such when possible. \ (On the Casio it was a shifted function to get from mixed mode to a decimal, \ which caused most people to just use \line\ mode and forget about the mini-CAS.) -- As the above might imply, fractions are handled nicely, although there isn't the \/c\ functionality that the 35s has; the Sharp always reduces to \ the least common denominator. -- An interesting/odd feature is that you can program two lines of text to \ be displayed when you hit the \off\ button... this is suggested to be, e.g., \ your name and phone number in case the calculator is stolen, and that's what I programmed, but it occurs to me that a sticker on the back is probably even \ better for this functionality. :-) -- The keyboard layout is pretty good -- STO and RCL get their own keys! I \ would have ditched giving hyp (as in hyperbolic sin/cos/tan) its own key (seriously, how many people use those functions on anything approaching a regular basis?) and used it to make square root or 1/x unshifted. -- It has a few more conversion functions and probably a few more constants \ than the 35s, but I've never needed any the 35s didn't have. The Sharp does \ have a nice feature in that if you press a letter in the list of constants \ or conversions, it'll immediately move you to the items that start with that letter. -- The keyboard is a bit jigglier than the 35s's -- definitely a notch lower \ in build quality -- but I found it perfectly usable. -- And of course the Sharp doesn't have RPN, which is disappointing, but obviously not unexpected when other than HP almost no machine does. For a \throwaround\ calculator, it's easily worth the $20. For the educational market, it'd certainly be OK through middle school and much of high school; kids who were thinking of engineering paths would probably already want something a bit programmable in their later years, at which \ point a 50g (or TI, if you insist) would be best. Back in the late '80s, I had a Casio FX-4000p programmable calculator. \ While the programming was quite limited (only 10 programs and some hundred of \ steps, although it did have branching and all), if I had to choose between the \ 4000p and the EL-W516B, I'd take the Sharp... although I'd whine a bit that the programming functionality was absent! ---Joel === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more <78j696F1mlv33U1@mid.individual.net> \ posting-account=B0WVuwoAAAB0jipMiVc4s-L42AIMUuHa Gecko/2009050519 Firefox/3.0.9,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > \BTW, how do you like the Sharp EL-W516B?\ > > I like it a lot. ÊFor $20, it's quite impressive! > > Amazon has a bunch of reviews that do a good job comparing it to the main > competition, which is the Casio FX-115ES; I generally agree with them: > Generally the Sharp is better (as it should be, as it's several years \ newer > than the Casio), although the Casio has a couple of significant features \ that > the Sharp doesn't. ÊCompared to an HP 35s: > > -- In generally it's nowhere near as powerful owing to not being \ programmable, > of course. > -- It has solvers built in for simultaneous equations up to 4x4, quadratic \ and > cubic equations, and something like 8 different regression types. \ ÊThe 35s has > solvers for 2x2 and 3x3 built-in and a few regressions, but everything \ else > the 35s was a quadratic solver.) > -- The 35s computes integrals better; I was a bit incredulous that the \ Sharp > literally just picks a number of evenly spaced points (you can specify \ how > many -- 100 is the default) and multiplies f(x)*dx and sums -- the \ simplest > possible approximation of an integral. ÊTruth be told, \ though, I've never used > integrals in a real program on the 35s... although I have a couple of \ times on > the 50g. > -- The solver on the 35s is much more flexible: The Sharp solves an > expression, f(x), to be equal to zero. ÊThe unknown must be \ the variable 'x', > and it's up to you to change an equation in the form of f(x)=k (or \ whatever) > to the expressoin f(x)-k. ÊEven the Casio is more flexible \ here... > -- There are standalone buttons (D1-D4) that you can assign any function \ you > feel like to. ÊThis nicely solves the problem of, \I use the \ pi key a lot and > it sucks that it's a shifted key!\ -- on the Sharp you'd just assign pi \ to, > e.g., D1 and now it's only one keystroke rather than two. > -- The 4 directional arrows double as four \function\ memories where you \ can > save and recall algebraic expressions. ÊVery similar to the \ 35s's equation > list, except that you're limited to 4 and the Sharp actually just inserts > whatever's in the memory into the current expression, so if you have a \ snippet > of an equation you use again and again, it can save some typing. \ ÊI stuck the > parallel impedance equation into one memory and the equations for \ converting > to/from dB into two others. Ê(You can use the \ANS\ \ variable to have the > equation refer to the last computed result.) > -- Using complex numbers on the Sharp is a different operating \mode\ \ (instead > of complex numbers being just a different object type as they are on the > 35s/50g), and the operations you can perform on them are quite limited: \ Pretty > much just addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, and keys \ such > as x^2 and x^3 that effectively do the same thing. ÊBut none \ of the regular > \scientific\ functions like square root or the transcendental functions > operate with complex arguments. ÊYou also loses the main six \ memories (A-F) in > complex mode... indeed, you're left with only one regular memory (M), \ although > you could use the four \function\ memories in a pinch. > -- Base-n conversion is done much better than on the 35s... pressing > hex/bin/oct/pent (base 5!) really just changes the display mode of the > calculator, at which point the keyboard is redefined so that memory keys \ A-F > enter the digits A-F and the various scientific function keys become > AND/OR/XOR/etc. ÊIn other words, no menu selection of logical \ operators (which > even the Casio FX115ES requires); it all works quickly and intuitively, \ and as > soon as you hit \dec\ the keyboard reverts back to all the regular key > definitions. > -- Sharp paid attention to how the display is used; you never have a \ situation > where you need to scroll just to see a numeric result, as the 35s requires \ at > times. Ê(Complex results are displayed on two lines...) \ ÊThey also have a key > that rotates through up to three display represenations: Regular floating > point, a \mixed\ mode with radicals and proper fractions (as \ appropriate), and > a mixed mode where the fractions are improper. ÊThis is quite \ handy in that it > encourages you to keep the machine in \write view\ mode, where the \ mini-CAS > system is active and fractions and radicals are kept as such when \ possible. > (On the Casio it was a shifted function to get from mixed mode to a \ decimal, > which caused most people to just use \line\ mode and forget about the > mini-CAS.) > -- As the above might imply, fractions are handled nicely, although there > isn't the \/c\ functionality that the 35s has; the Sharp always reduces \ to the > least common denominator. > -- An interesting/odd feature is that you can program two lines of text to \ be > displayed when you hit the \off\ button... this is suggested to be, \ e.g., your > name and phone number in case the calculator is stolen, and that's what I > programmed, but it occurs to me that a sticker on the back is probably \ even > better for this functionality. :-) > -- The keyboard layout is pretty good -- STO and RCL get their own keys! \ ÊI > would have ditched giving hyp (as in hyperbolic sin/cos/tan) its own key > (seriously, how many people use those functions on anything approaching a > regular basis?) and used it to make square root or 1/x unshifted. > -- It has a few more conversion functions and probably a few more \ constants > than the 35s, but I've never needed any the 35s didn't have. \ ÊThe Sharp does > have a nice feature in that if you press a letter in the list of constants \ or > conversions, it'll immediately move you to the items that start with that > letter. > -- The keyboard is a bit jigglier than the 35s's -- definitely a notch \ lower > in build quality -- but I found it perfectly usable. > -- And of course the Sharp doesn't have RPN, which is disappointing, but > obviously not unexpected when other than HP almost no machine does. > > For a \throwaround\ calculator, it's easily worth the $20. \ ÊFor the > educational market, it'd certainly be OK through middle school and much \ of > high school; kids who were thinking of engineering paths would probably > already want something a bit programmable in their later years, at which \ point > a 50g (or TI, if you insist) would be best. > > Back in the late '80s, I had a Casio FX-4000p programmable calculator. \ ÊWhile > the programming was quite limited (only 10 programs and some hundred of \ steps, > although it did have branching and all), if I had to choose between the \ 4000p > and the EL-W516B, I'd take the Sharp... although I'd whine a bit that the > programming functionality was absent! > > ---Joel That is an impressive feedback! I, too, like both the Casio/Sharp. At least for their intended purposes. === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more reply-type=response Importance: Normal > I have two HP 35s calculators to play with, and on neither one can I > usually enter the sequence... > > 1 enter 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 + 9 + > > ...and obtain the correct answer of 45 if I enter the sequence as rapidly \ > as I can move my fingers -- sooner or later one of the keystrokes is > missed so the computation becomes corrupted. (I'm using one thumb for the \ > numbers here, and the other thumb for the \+\ button.) I get an answer of 35 consistently on a very lightly used calculator (no discernable key wear) Maybe it's the New Math - HP Style. Tom Lake === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more posting-account=sOAX1QkAAAC-FcySTSbz29Uk8huUtFRz GTB6; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > I get an answer of 35 consistently on a very lightly used calculator > (no discernable key wear) > > Maybe it's the New Math - HP Style. > > Tom Lake I wonder which two numbers the calculator is missing...only four possibilities S.C. === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more I purchased a HP35S for my daughter about a month ago so it is quite new, but no problems with it so far. We can press the keys as quickly as our abilities will allow without missing a number. Whilst I normally use a 50G, the 35S is a great feeling calculator & really \ reminds me of the 2 HP41's I have. Maybe they have improved the latest batch or just lucky so far. Michael > > > > > It's sad that this occurs, because the 35s has the best-feeling keyboard \ > > (to > > my fingers) of any current HP calculator, but it's too unreliable to be > > trusted. > > Agreed -- the mechanical design of the 35s keyboard is very good. I think > it's sad that HP largely perfected keyboards over 35 years ago now (I > can't > imagine the original HP 35 had this problem!) and somehow they've > regressed to > being worse than cheap $20 calculators in this particular area. :-( > > ---Joel The missing keystrokes also occur in the silver 17bii+. Curious, I tried this exercise on both the older 17bii and the 42s. Both work perfectly every time!!! The 42s instantly showed the result of each keystroke. The 17bii, however, appeared to be slower than the 42s and or my fast finger. It quickly flashed each number, then the result of each addition before showing the final result, after I already finished entering the last number. In short, it took a second or so after I pressed number 9 for the result to show. Maybe HP needs to update the ROM to account for keystrokes buffer. BTW, how do you like the Sharp EL-W516B? === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more <78j696F1mlv33U1@mid.individual.net> \ posting-account=B0WVuwoAAAB0jipMiVc4s-L42AIMUuHa Gecko/2009050519 Firefox/3.0.9,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) On Jun 2, 6:13Êam, \Michael & Maria Lopez\ \ > I purchased a HP35S for my daughter about a month ago so it is quite new, > but no problems with it so far. We can press the keys as quickly as our > abilities will allow without missing a number. > Maybe HP listens to the complaints about the keyboards and quietly updates or correct the problem in the new production? Glad to hear that you have no problems. I am hoping that is the sign that HP continues making improvements based on feedback here and, perhaps, the MoHPC or HP business forums. The HP35s is still quite useable provided that the users are not too quick with keystrokes. It certainly has the look and feel of a tool made for professionals. TI/Casio/Sharp are no match in that department. BTW, what grade is your daughter in? One of my nieces will start 9th grade in the Fall. I don't know what kind of calculator she will be required/recommended to have, but I kinda suspect that it will be TI of some sort. Just curious. === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more My daughter recently commenced at University & is undertaking an advanced science degree but has little experience with RPN calculators. She claims I \ bought the HP 35S to indoctrinate her into the World of HP calculators but off course I deny all ;). Michael On Jun 2, 6:13 am, \Michael & Maria Lopez\ > I purchased a HP35S for my daughter about a month ago so it is quite new, > but no problems with it so far. We can press the keys as quickly as our > abilities will allow without missing a number. > Maybe HP listens to the complaints about the keyboards and quietly updates or correct the problem in the new production? Glad to hear that you have no problems. I am hoping that is the sign that HP continues making improvements based on feedback here and, perhaps, the MoHPC or HP business forums. The HP35s is still quite useable provided that the users are not too quick with keystrokes. It certainly has the look and feel of a tool made for professionals. TI/Casio/Sharp are no match in that department. BTW, what grade is your daughter in? One of my nieces will start 9th grade in the Fall. I don't know what kind of calculator she will be required/recommended to have, but I kinda suspect that it will be TI of some sort. Just curious. === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more <78j696F1mlv33U1@mid.individual.net> \ posting-account=sOAX1QkAAAC-FcySTSbz29Uk8huUtFRz GTB6; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > Maybe HP listens to the complaints about the keyboards and quietly > updates or correct the problem in the new production? > > Glad to hear that you have no problems. I am hoping that is the sign > that HP continues making improvements based on feedback here and, > perhaps, the MoHPC or HP business forums. > I'm still waiting for a ROM revision to fix some 2-year-old bugs: The HP 35s overview on HP's website contains the following quote: \Scientific projects require accuracy, functionality and dependability for success. The HP 35s scientific programmable calculator delivers themÑand moreÑ\ I think it fails in the accuracy department (even as the 48/49 series is amazingly accurate). S.C. === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more \I'm still waiting for a ROM revision to fix some 2-year-old bugs:\ Same here -- in fact #15 on that list is one I discovered, and it was from a \ real program I'd written for work too, not just an obscure programming exercise looking to test \corner cases\ or somesuch. I'm disappointed that HP hasn't given any indication they intend to fix \ these after so long. While some might take awhile to track down (e.g., the \sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't,\ like #17) and some need \ attention from someone well-versed in numerical methods (e.g., #2/#3), the vast \ majority of those bugs look like easy fixes that any programmer could crank out in no \ more than a week or so worth of work. :-( Truly scary bugs like #15 and #16 combined with an unreliable keyboard make \ the 35s a calculator I can't recommend to most people. For \serious\ work \ the 50g still takes the top spot, and for a \throwaround\ machine, the $20 \ Sharp, Casio, and TI \textbook display\ calculators are a very good value. ---Joel === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more <78j696F1mlv33U1@mid.individual.net> \ posting-account=B0WVuwoAAAB0jipMiVc4s-L42AIMUuHa Gecko/2009050519 Firefox/3.0.9,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > \I'm still waiting for a ROM revision to fix some 2-year-old bugs:\ > > Same here -- in fact #15 on that list is one I discovered, and it was from \ a > real program I'd written for work too, not just an obscure programming > exercise looking to test \corner cases\ or somesuch. > > I'm disappointed that HP hasn't given any indication they intend to fix \ these > after so long. ÊWhile some might take awhile to track down \ (e.g., the > \sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't,\ like #17) and some need \ attention > from someone well-versed in numerical methods (e.g., #2/#3), the vast \ majority > of those bugs look like easy fixes that any programmer could crank out in \ no > more than a week or so worth of work. :-( > > Truly scary bugs like #15 and #16 combined with an unreliable keyboard \ make > the 35s a calculator I can't recommend to most people. ÊFor \ \serious\ work the > 50g still takes the top spot, and for a \throwaround\ machine, the $20 \ Sharp, > Casio, and TI \textbook display\ calculators are a very good value. > > ---Joel The 35s has been out more than long enough. HP should have fix these issues. At least some of them. For serious work, I don't want to wonder if I missed the keystrokes because the result look strange. --IMQ === Subject: Re: Smartcalc 300s, anyone? Hi IMQ, \If you are looking for a throw-around calculator, the Casio or Sharp is up to the job. Unless you really, really want *that* HP.\ here tomorrow. :-) It strikes me as a little odd that, while both the EL-W516B and the Casio FX-115ES support complex numbers, they need a separate \mode\ for it. \ Seems that it would make everyone's life simpler to just take the HP approach (on \ the 50G and *mostly* on the 35s) with one mode. I do have to admit to liking the (perhaps too) blue look of the Smartcalc 300s. Hopefully they'll sell a bunch and HP will crank out more new calculators. Something with the power of an HP 35s with the dot matrix LCD \ of the 300s/W516B/FX115ES (and RPN, of course) would be great. ---Joel === Subject: Re: Smartcalc 300s, anyone? > It strikes me as a little odd that, while both the EL-W516B and the Casio > FX-115ES support complex numbers, they need a separate \mode\ for it. Somewhat like an HP15C, certain Casio (and similar) designs require more dedicated \registers\ to be allocated to the \complex stack,\ which are acquired by taking registers away from other functions, which then can no longer be used in Complex mode. Yes, there's a \stack\ in all algebraic calculators (for deferred operations required either by parentheses or by operator precedence), even if you can't access it directly. > Hopefully they'll sell a bunch and HP will crank out more new \ calculators. \Crank out,\ or is it \re-brand\ ? [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Smartcalc 300s, anyone? \ posting-account=B0WVuwoAAAB0jipMiVc4s-L42AIMUuHa Gecko/2009050519 Firefox/3.0.9,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > It strikes me as a little odd that, while both the EL-W516B and the \ Casio > > FX-115ES support complex numbers, they need a separate \mode\ for it. > > Somewhat like an HP15C, certain Casio (and similar) designs require > more dedicated \registers\ to be allocated to the \complex stack,\ > which are acquired by taking registers away from other functions, > which then can no longer be used in Complex mode. > One of the things I really wish HP has done were to have a replacement for the HP-42S. With more memory and I/O capability, at least a USB port for backup. Not to mention better display. For 20 years or so with no replacement or upgrade of non-graphic scientific calculator of the 42s caliper or better. Unbelievable and really sad! To get decent complex and matrix supports on a HP calculator, there is no choice but to go with graphic versions. And they are bulky and heavy. Not suitable for going everywhere. If only HP could introduce the 42s upgrade, I would definitely buy one. I could only dream... === Subject: SpeedUI updated to 9.05 Hello all, for those still interested in the real HP-48 GX/G+ , I have updated my SpeedUI, the most complete but still modular user interface accelerator for the HP-48G series, to version 9.05 . There are many improvements, like the optional UFL support for even faster display, and the QuickStartMenu (QSM) for fast library access. So if you have SpeedUI 9.05 installed, and then install my PTLIB replacement, or my IFB, there will be an associated entry in the QSM. I just uploaded SpeedUI 9.05 to www.hpcalc.org , where it should be available soon. Please read the included SpeedUI walkthrough PDF first. Users of older versions of SpeedUI should upgrade to the new version, too, as there are some bug fixes, and many speed-ups in the new version. Have fun:-) Raymond -- A valid e m a i l address: M a g i c 4 8 g e s g m x d e . Replace the obvious. === Subject: CPicEdit posting-account=ky6NnQoAAAAl8HjjF10EUMKbzXiIKhTR Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10 (.NET CLR \ 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) I have found CPicEdit (http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3837) to be a very handy program for some time. Does anybody know of a way to contact Tobias Holgers, the author of this program? I have tried unsuccessfully to contact the author regarding some minor additions to the program. The website listed is no longer valid and email sent to the address provided fails. I am unaware of any other similar programs. Jacob === Subject: DOERR MSGBOX posting-account=gc5kvQoAAABztoqWhjNAKB5GLJ6hpqoh InfoPath.2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) Hi Is it possible in User RPL to generate an error but a kind of message box which can be abandoned by pressing only either of the ON key or F6 or ENTER. The usual DOERR command displays the message but pressing any key will take that message off the screen whereas the MSGBOX displays the input string which can be got rid off by pressing only one of the mentioned keys. In other words, the only thing I want is to display that triangular caution sign (in the error message) with the input string if possible using MSGBOX. So I need to know if something can be done to display the error but can only be got rid off by the mentioned keys. Gurveer === Subject: Re: HP50G Installing & Uninstallingl Libraries \ <345iv4le89m49debck5eam1jni3c47uaim@4ax.com> posting-account=XOfZ9woAAACnHbd7tyI_QRfVm9UtK_HP CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; InfoPath.1; .NET CLR \ 3.0.04506.30),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > defragment a hard drive? I find FMAN very handy for organizing flash: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=6545 === Subject: Re: HP50G Installing & Uninstallingl Libraries >> defragment a hard drive? > >I find FMAN very handy for organizing flash: >http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=6545 FMAN is good but it exits with a \Bad Argument Value\ error upon pressing PACK so it may not be entirely stable. === Subject: Re: HP50G Installing & Uninstallingl Libraries >> defragment a hard drive? > > I find FMAN very handy for organizing flash: > http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=6545 FMAN is a terrific program, but a user needs to know to NOT interrupt while \ it's doing its magic. Do not press [ON] during a pending operation. That is NOT a reflection on the program or its utility - it's just a case that one can sorta scramble the Flash if one is impatient. So be PATIENT, wait for FMAN to finish what it's doing and all be well. Guilty-of-impatience :-) === Subject: HP-75D: How to separate \computer\ from pod? I have an old and non-working 75D. But it seems to be fixed to its pod and I don't know how to separate them. I have no manuals for the 75D. If there's an easy trick, please let me know. Mark === Subject: Re: HP-75D: How to separate \computer\ from pod? posting-account=zYTuBQoAAAC_bXzGjGVT5rxv8bOnpefP rv:1.9.0.10) Gecko/2009042315 Firefox/3.0.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > I have an old and non-working 75D. ÊBut it seems to be fixed \ to its pod > and I don't know how to separate them. ÊI have no manuals for \ the 75D. > > If there's an easy trick, please let me know. > > > Mark http://www.thimet.de/CalcCollection/Calculators/HP-75C/HP-82718A-ExpansionPo\ d.html === Mark >> >> I have an old and non-working 75D. But it seems to be fixed to its pod >> and I don't know how to separate them. I have no manuals for the 75D. >> >> If there's an easy trick, please let me know. >> >> >> Mark > > \ http://www.thimet.de/CalcCollection/Calculators/HP-75C/HP-82718A-ExpansionPod\ .html === Subject: Re: HP-75D: How to separate \computer\ from pod? Trident/4.0; InfoPath.1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30; \ .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.648; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > I have an old and non-working 75D. ÊBut it seems to be fixed \ to its pod > and I don't know how to separate them. ÊI have no manuals for \ the 75D. If you don't get an answer here, you could try http://www.hpmuseum.org/ and its forums. They have an entry (and manual, though I doubt if it's free) for the 75D. Bill === Subject: Call a external program from a program posting-account=EkHx0QoAAAAYr-C0o47uKIufpOsJdsvt AppleWebKit/528.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 \ Safari/528.17,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) bunch of User RPL programs here... 1. How do I call a external program (in this case, written by me in User RPL) to execute? 2. Is it possible to run programs, and access variables stored in a SD card without copying them to { HOME }? === Subject: Re: Call a external program from a program test > bunch of User RPL programs here... > > 1. How do I call a external program (in this case, written by me in > User RPL) to execute? > > 2. Is it possible to run programs, and access variables stored in a SD > card without copying them to { HOME }? === Subject: Re: Call a external program from a program > How do I call a external program (in this case, > written by me in User RPL) to execute? If it is stored in a variable (VAR menu), its name (within a program) will \call\ it, e.g. \\<< DATE TIME 4 RND \\>> 'PROG1' STO \\<< PROG1 2 \\->LIST \Now\ \\->TAG \\>> 'PROG2' STO > Is it possible to run programs, and access variables > stored in a SD card without copying them to { HOME }? :3:VAR1 RCL :3:PROG1 EVAL Note: You can not store (STO) into an existing item in a \port\; to replace an item in a port, you must first delete the original. [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Call a external program from a program posting-account=EkHx0QoAAAAYr-C0o47uKIufpOsJdsvt AppleWebKit/528.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 \ Safari/528.17,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > How do I call a external program (in this case, > > written by me in User RPL) to execute? > > If it is stored in a variable (VAR menu), > its name (within a program) will \call\ it, e.g. > > \\<< DATE TIME 4 RND \\>> 'PROG1' STO > > \\<< PROG1 2 \\->LIST \Now\ \\->TAG \\>> 'PROG2' STO > I feel so dumb! But when I use with a program I made to calculate the parallel between two resitors called \PAR\, ex: \\<< 5 10 PAR \\>> it works as expected, but when I pair with a UserRPL program I got on the Internet called KRAFT (a sequence of WAIT and BEEP, a Kraftwerk excerpt) eg: \\<< KRAFT \\>>, it doesn't executes KRAFT, but gives me 'KRAFT'... > > Is it possible to run programs, and access variables > > stored in a SD card without copying them to { HOME }? > > :3:VAR1 ÊRCL > :3:PROG1 EVAL > > Note: You can not store (STO) into an existing item in a \port\; > to replace an item in a port, you must first delete the original. > > [r->] [OFF] \\<> EVAL :P === Subject: Re: Call a external program from a program > \\<< KRAFT \\>> doesn't executes KRAFT, but gives me 'KRAFT' Then there is no variable named 'KRAFT' in the current or any higher calculator directory, in which case the evaluation of the name leaves the name on the stack. The 48G series owners manuals have very good explanations of how everything is evaluated; I know less about the 49/50 series manuals, because they were not as inspiring to read :) If by any chance KRAFT is a command in a library, that you may have installed after entering your own program, then just edit your program again (make no changes, just press ENTER after you start editing). Each time you complete a UserRPL editing session, the text that you were editing is automatically recompiled into a binary program. During compilation, an unknown word such as KRAFT is searched for in the current and higher directories, and if not found, it is searched for in attached libraries (including built-ins). If the word is found first in a directory, the word is compiled as a variable name; if the word is found first in a library, it is compiled as either a library command or internal command; if the word is not found at all, it is compiled as a variable name. When the program is decompiled (displayed or being edited), the word KRAFT looks the same in all cases, but if it got compiled as a variable name, its evaluation can only evaluate a variable, whereas if it got compiled as a command (or library command), it can only execute that command. One may therefore sometimes need to recompile UserRPL, to cause the compiler to recognize a newly installed (or newly attached) library. No such confusion occurs in SysRPL, where there is a specific unique syntax for each different type of object, e.g. \ID X\ for a \global\ variable \ name. \PTR nnnnn\ for a direct ROM address, etc. [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Call a external program from a program Trident/4.0; InfoPath.1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30; \ .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.648; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > I feel so dumb! But when I use with a program I made to calculate the > parallel between two resitors called \PAR\, ex: \\<< 5 10 PAR \\>> it > works as expected, but when I pair with a UserRPL program I got on the > Internet called KRAFT (a sequence of WAIT and BEEP, a Kraftwerk > excerpt) eg: \\<< KRAFT \\>>, it doesn't executes KRAFT, but gives me > 'KRAFT'... If the KRAFT program is external to yours, then all you need is the name: << yourprogram KRAFT >> Don't put KRAFT in quotes or program delimiters and it'll run. If you want to insert the entire KRAFT program so that your program is portable (no need for the external pgm), the syntax is: << yourprogram << entire KRAFT program >> EVAL >> Bill Bill === Subject: Re: Call a external program from a program Trident/4.0; InfoPath.1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30; \ .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.648; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > I feel so dumb! But when I use with a program I made to calculate the > parallel between two resitors called \PAR\, ex: \\<< 5 10 PAR \\>> it > works as expected, but when I pair with a UserRPL program I got on the > Internet called KRAFT (a sequence of WAIT and BEEP, a Kraftwerk > excerpt) eg: \\<< KRAFT \\>>, it doesn't executes KRAFT, but gives me > 'KRAFT'... > That's right. A program inside another of the form << pgm >> is placed on the stack. You probably have the name in quotes or something - 'KRAFT' will also be placed on the stack. Use this syntax: << yourprogram << KRAFT pgm >> EVAL >> You can also remove the program delimiters from around KRAFT to make its commands execute immediately. Bill === Subject: Re: DOERR MSGBOX posting-account=gc5kvQoAAABztoqWhjNAKB5GLJ6hpqoh InfoPath.2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) had been looking for. Yeah, I have installed the extable library in my calculator. But one more thing, how do I attach the built in library #B1h or is it already attached? Gurveer === Subject: Re: DOERR MSGBOX > How do I attach the built in library #B1h or is it already attached? It's built in (thus \already attached\), and is being used to generate what you already see. Install \Nosy\ and try it on the string \ParseFail\ (the internal function called for input syntax errors); when you explore \^DoAlert\ you will soon come upon a call to \ROMPTR B1 0=~DoMsgBox\ which is a general \engine\ for such message boxes (though I have no recollection where to find specifications for it). Similarly, \ROMPTR B3 0=~Choose\ is the original (HP48G series) general engine for \choose\ boxes. http://www.hpcalc.org/search.php?query=nosy (for \Nosy\) [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Complex Numbers HP 49G+ posting-account=sOAX1QkAAAC-FcySTSbz29Uk8huUtFRz GTB6; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > To get the length and angle the sequence Êof commands should \ be > Ê ÊDUP ABS SWAP ARG > > ABS and ARG are conveniently on the keyboard, both assigned to the \divide\ key. They are left- and right-shifted, respectively. S.C. === Subject: Re: SpeedUI updated to 9.05 posting-account=w-DOQQoAAACQmN0dBau8S3Wm0dLyE1fg Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) Just one question: I have an old version of SpeedUI installed (I think it's 7.12) and I can't find some of the libraries in the new package, namely LB,RP,FC and SL. Should I remove them before installing the new version? --Javier === Subject: Re: SpeedUI updated to 9.05 Hi Javier, the 9.05 package only includes the core components of SpeedUI, except maybe the IFB. The other components may be re-released separately, or perhaps with a later release of SpeedUI However you don't need to remove LB,RP,FC or SL, since they should work with the new SpeedUI, too;-) A new SpeedUI core component is the MsgBox lib (B1.LIB), which includes a very fast message box replacement (obviously;-) It's so fast that you can even switch SpeedUI message settings to display a msgbox instead of the two-line status messages! Als try the [FAST] toggle menu key in all of the built-in var browsers. Raymond \jgoizueta\ schrieb im Newsbeitrag > > Just one question: I have an old version of SpeedUI installed (I > think it's 7.12) and I can't find some of the libraries in the new > package, namely LB,RP,FC and SL. Should I remove them before > installing the new version? > > --Javier === Subject: Re: How to view vars without pressing the button??? posting-account=GeufLAoAAADMS_LUT0JCUdWjyltOYy5b Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > The user directory, however, may be cluttered up > > with any other variables, whether they are relevant or not > > to the program currently being used. > > > If, for example, you want someone to choose from among > > a list of variable names that are relevant to a program, > > you might then prefer to use CHOOSE to select the name > > from a list. > > Another idea, if you want to show a menu like VAR, > but containing only pertinent variables, > is to present your own temporary menu, e.g.: > > { A B C D E F } TMENU > > This temporary menu shows a set of variable names, > arranged in the exact order you specify, > ignoring any irrelevant variables (or variable sequence) > which might otherwise appear in the VAR menu. > > It also allows you to store values into named variables > which do not yet exist (the VAR menu can not show > variable names which do not yet exist). > > In most other ways, > this menu acts much like the VAR menu, > including (in RPN mode) > the use of the shift keys as STO and RCL, > when followed by any variable's key. > > Also right-shift cursor-down as \Review\ > (show all the stored values) > > [r->] [OFF] This is what i did: The program uses an exclusive directory for it«s variables, \ so once I «m into this directory all the variables are relevant. I used VARS TMENU to make the menu into the program then HOME 2.01 MENU to return to the hp48 menu in the home directory when the program is finished. I use CHOOSE when the list of variables is not large (not this case 30 vars or more) By the way I«m a 48g user and of course a big fan, I have \ used it for 10 years and it«s still in perfect condition, I should buy a \ 50 jajaaa. === Subject: Re: How to view vars without pressing the button??? > The program uses an exclusive directory for its variables, > so once I am into this directory, all the variables are relevant. > I used VARS TMENU to make the menu into the program > then HOME 2.01 MENU to return to the hp48 menu in the home directory > when the program is finished. In this situation, 2 MENU would suffice for showing the current VAR menu, and HOME would continue to show the same menu in HOME. Note that the fractional part \.01\ is not necessary, when you want to go to the beginning of any menu (2 or 2. is a shorter object than 2.01, FWIW). [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: I'd like to update Nosy but... Trident/4.0; InfoPath.1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30; \ .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.648; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > I'd like to update Nosy to take advantage of the hp50g's large screen > but the source code will not compile. I couldn't figure out Nosy's source code either. :-) I think Jurjen assumes that anyone using Nosy won't have any trouble with programming basics, so he doesn't explain in depth. The source seems to be included for those who'd like to know more about how it works. But do you need it? Is there any reason you can't just install the library 1625 that's included with the zip file? Bill === Subject: Re: I'd like to update Nosy but... [Nosy source won't compile on calculator] How about with an expanded \extable\ library? > Is there any reason you can't just install the > library 1625 that's included with the zip file? Anna had said: > I'd like to update Nosy > to take advantage of the hp50g's large screen. Nosy apparently assumes the shorter screen height of a 49G or 48gs, even when run on 49G+ or 50G. > but the source code will not compile I think I noticed the same thing. An internet search for \Jurjen N.E. Bos\ might find a current email address, as well as projects of larger scope than calculators. [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: I'd like to update Nosy but... Trident/4.0; InfoPath.1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30; \ .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.648; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > Nosy apparently assumes the shorter screen height of a 49G or 48gs, > even when run on 49G+ or 50G. So it does. I never really noticed that the scrolling is cut short. Not a huge penalty. > An internet search for \Jurjen N.E. Bos\ > might find a current email address, > as well as projects of larger scope than calculators. at times. I got 1,000 hits for \All the Facts and Figures About Jurjen N.E. Bos\ and inside, they said \There are no entries for Jurjen N.E. Bos\. I got 1,000 hits that said, \Save Big on Jurjen N.E. Bos at Bigscam.com!\ There might actually be something about calculators in there somewhere. I sent him the requested postcard for using Nosy, so maybe that's how you contact him. :-) The email given in his text file is j.bos at interpay-iss.demon.nl. I haven't tried this. It may or may not be valid. If we can't figure out how to compile the source, we probably wouldn't be too good at modifying the display parameters. Although there's probably a keener out there somewhere who'll make it a rainy day project. Bill === Subject: Re: I'd like to update Nosy but... Trident/4.0; InfoPath.1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30; \ .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.648; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > Nosy apparently assumes the shorter screen height of a 49G or 48gs, > even when run on 49G+ or 50G. So it does. I never really noticed that the scrolling is cut short. Not a huge penalty. > An internet search for \Jurjen N.E. Bos\ > might find a current email address, > as well as projects of larger scope than calculators. times. I got 1,000 hits for \All the Facts and Figures About Jurjen N.E. Bos\ and inside, they said \There are no entries for Jurjen N.E. Bos\. I got 1,000 hits that said, \Save Big on Jurjen N.E. Bos at Bigscam.com!\ There might actually be something about calculators in there somewhere. I sent him the requested postcard for using Nosy, so maybe that's how you contact him. :-) If we can't figure out how to compile the source, we probably wouldn't be too good at modifying the display parameters. Although there's probably a keener out there somewhere who'll make it a rainy day project. Bill > > but the source code will not compile > > I think I noticed the same thing. > > An internet search for \Jurjen N.E. Bos\ > might find a current email address, > as well as projects of larger scope than calculators. > > [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: I'd like to update Nosy but... > If we can't figure out how to compile the source, > we probably wouldn't > be too good at modifying the display parameters. If anyone does, I would suggest obtaining the screen height when actually running on calc, SysRPL: DOLCD> GROBDIM DROP (in pixels) which will then be universal, not a \49G+/50G only\ version which might then crash or not work on shorter screens. In UserRPL, by the way: LCD\\-> SIZE SWAP DROP (all HP48/49/50) [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: I'd like to update Nosy but... Le mardi 02 juin 2009, John H Meyers avait \.8ecrit : >> If we can't figure out how to compile the source, >> we probably wouldn't >> be too good at modifying the display parameters. Before compiling the sources: 1) Go into the 'Nosy4.1' directory 2) In 'SCAN', change \A=D1\ to \AD1EX D1=A\ 3) In 'RELOCATEi', change \A=D1\ to \AD1EX D1=A\ > If anyone does, I would suggest obtaining the screen height > when actually running on calc, SysRPL: DOLCD> GROBDIM DROP (in pixels) > which will then be universal, not a \49G+/50G only\ version > which might then crash or not work on shorter screens. > > In UserRPL, by the way: LCD\\-> SIZE SWAP DROP (all HP48/49/50) Unfortunately, the screen height is hardcoded in the program at many places, so one need to understand the whole display logic before making any change. Well, I have no time to investigate further. === Subject: Re: I'd like to update Nosy but... JHM: >> An internet search for \Jurjen N.E. Bos\ >> might find a current email address, >> as well as projects of larger scope than calculators. > times. I got 1,000 hits for \All the Facts and Figures About Jurjen > N.E. Bos\ and inside, they said \There are no entries for Jurjen N.E. > Bos\. I got 1,000 hits that said, \Save Big on Jurjen N.E. Bos at > Bigscam.com!\ There might actually be something about calculators in > there somewhere. Has your browser (or search engine component) been hijacked? Here I get only highly relevant entries from Google, with a few email addresses within the first page. Spybot Search&Destroy http://www.safer-networking.org/ (anti-spyware/hijackware for Windows; free, but contributions are invited) -[ ]- === Subject: Re: Smartcalc 300s, anyone? \I think it's more a problem of documentation. After paying no attention to calculator innovations for 25 years, I bought a 50g when my daughter had to get a TI 84 for school. I found the printed manual that came with the 50g extremely confusing. The TI's manual is equally brief, but the things that it *does* cover make sense for a novice reader.\ Agreed, the 50g's manual is nowhere near as good as the 48sx's was. Thomas Barber's \The Definitive User's Guide\ is actually pretty good, although ironically it tends to assume you've at least played around with \ some vintage of HP 28/48/49/50 calaculator, and he's raelly just filling in a lot \ of the gaps in the HP manuals! (I.e., I wouldn't recommend his book to someone who just purchased a 50g, hasn't used an RPL machine before, and hasn't yet at least made some effort to go through the HP manual.) ---Joel === Subject: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more I have two HP 35s calculators to play with, and on neither one can I usually \ enter the sequence... 1 enter 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 + 9 + ...and obtain the correct answer of 45 if I enter the sequence as rapidly as \ I can move my fingers -- sooner or later one of the keystrokes is missed so \ the computation becomes corrupted. (I'm using one thumb for the numbers here, \ and the other thumb for the \+\ button.) Anyone have a 35s where this consistently works? I can do this on my 50g without problems (after having adjusted \ keytime...). I also have no problems with a $20 Sharp EL-W516B that does this without incidence. While this is obviously a contrived example, I encounter similar errors \ often enough in real-world usage that I'm planning on ditching my 35s machines and \ just sticking with the 50g. ---Joel === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more reply-type=response >I have two HP 35s calculators to play with, and on neither one can I >usually enter the sequence... > > 1 enter 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 + 9 + > > ...and obtain the correct answer of 45 if I enter the sequence as rapidly \ > as I can move my fingers Same problem here. It drives me nuts, and I run into this problem regularly. I leave my 35s on my desk at work and frequently use it for simple math while programming. I have to use my 50g when I care about having a reliable keyboard. When I use the 35s, I have to remember to type the keys slowly, or I end up with the same problems with inaccurate results that you are setting. It seems to me that the CPU in the 35s sometimes starts \thinking\ when \ you type a bunch of keys in succession and misses any keystrokes during that period. It doesn't seem to be a result of the keys not being pressed hard enough, and it also isn't because I am pressing two keys at the exact same time (while that also would cause the keystrokes to be lost, that isn't the \ case here because I can reproduce this while using only a single finger). It's sad that this occurs, because the 35s has the best-feeling keyboard (to \ my fingers) of any current HP calculator, but it's too unreliable to be trusted. Eric Rechlin === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more > It's sad that this occurs, because the 35s has the best-feeling keyboard \ (to > my fingers) of any current HP calculator, but it's too unreliable to be > trusted. Agreed -- the mechanical design of the 35s keyboard is very good. I think it's sad that HP largely perfected keyboards over 35 years ago now (I can't \ imagine the original HP 35 had this problem!) and somehow they've regressed \ to being worse than cheap $20 calculators in this particular area. :-( ---Joel === Subject: Re: HP 35s missing keystrokes, some more <78j696F1mlv33U1@mid.individual.net> \ posting-account=B0WVuwoAAAB0jipMiVc4s-L42AIMUuHa Gecko/2009050519 Firefox/3.0.9,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > > > > It's sad that this occurs, because the 35s has the best-feeling keyboard \ (to > > my fingers) of any current HP calculator, but it's too unreliable to be > > trusted. > > Agreed -- the mechanical design of the 35s keyboard is very good. \ ÊI think > it's sad that HP largely perfected keyboards over 35 years ago now (I \ can't > imagine the original HP 35 had this problem!) and somehow they've \ regressed to > being worse than cheap $20 calculators in this particular area. :-( > > ---Joel The missing keystrokes also occur in the silver 17bii+. Curious, I tried this exercise on both the older 17bii and the 42s. Both work perfectly every time!!! The 42s instantly showed the result of each keystroke. The 17bii, however, appeared to be slower than the 42s and or my fast finger. It quickly flashed each number, then the result of each addition before showing the final result, after I already finished entering the last number. In short, it took a second or so after I pressed number 9 for the result to show. Maybe HP needs to update the ROM to account for keystrokes buffer. BTW, how do you like the Sharp EL-W516B? === Subject: Having messages and some front-ends in Spanish! posting-account=V6LrigoAAACudvZ0KlT32AF1BSfjssFY Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) I have installed various programs from hpcalc.org, and many of them were in Spanish language. The problem is that my calculator has now some menus in Spanish. For example, when I use the LeftArrow (white) key and APPS (G), to access my files, I have now a title \Administrador archivos\. The problem is that when I make calculus, the messages (if any) are now shown in Spanish, and Spanish is not my language at all. I want to recover the English. How can I solve this using a simple method? I think that my language files, if any, were not erased only by launching some programs in Spanish. Anyway, I hope so. It is clearly weird. Any help would be much appreciated. === Subject: Re: Having messages and some front-ends in Spanish! > I have installed various programs from hpcalc.org, and many of them > were in Spanish language. The problem is that my calculator has now > some menus in Spanish. For example, when I use the LeftArrow (white) > key and APPS (G), to access my files, I have now a title > \Administrador archivos\. The problem is that when I make calculus, > the messages (if any) are now shown in Spanish, and Spanish is not my > language at all. I want to recover the English. On 49G[+]/50G series: 0 \\->LANGUAGE \0 for English, 1 for French, and 2 for Spanish\ [page 209 of the 50G \ AUR] However, the application you have run may have added an entry for itself into the APPS menu, and if so, there may be no way to cause the specific message (or anything displayed by any external application) to translate itself into English. [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Having messages and some front-ends in Spanish! posting-account=V6LrigoAAACudvZ0KlT32AF1BSfjssFY Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > > I have installed various programs from hpcalc.org, and many of them > > were in Spanish language. The problem is that my calculator has now > > some menus in Spanish. For example, when I use the LeftArrow (white) > > key and APPS (G), to access my files, I have now a title > > \Administrador archivos\. The problem is that when I make calculus, > > the messages (if any) are now shown in Spanish, and Spanish is not my > > language at all. I want to recover the English. > > On 49G[+]/50G series: 0 \\->LANGUAGE > > \0 for English, 1 for French, and 2 for Spanish\ [page 209 of the 50G \ AUR] > > However, the application you have run > may have added an entry for itself into the APPS menu, > and if so, there may be no way to cause the specific message > (or anything displayed by any external application) > to translate itself into English. > > [r->] [OFF] see what you are speaking about. Can you detail a little bit more? I do not have the 50G AUR, but I have the user's guide located at http://smendes.com/hp50g.pdf. So, my p. 209 seems not to be linked with what you say. The application does not have added an entry in the APPS menu, fortunately, and the messages written in Spanish are also === Subject: Re: CPicEdit posting-account=QSfVcQoAAADkgn5Et4hWcvOa13b-lJy1 Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) You could try OpenFire, a Manjo program. Look here: http://fly.srk.fer.hr/~manjo/openfire/openfire.html Is it what are you looking for ? Daniel. === Subject: Re: CPicEdit posting-account=ky6NnQoAAAAl8HjjF10EUMKbzXiIKhTR Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10 (.NET CLR \ 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > You could try OpenFire, a Manjo program. Look here: > > http://fly.srk.fer.hr/~manjo/openfire/openfire.html > > Is it what are you looking for ? > > Daniel. conversion that I was thinking of. CPicEdit makes drawing and editing grobs pixel by pixel very easy, the only thing I've found is that there is no way to resize a grob you're working on by adding or removing rows or columns of pixels. Of course the need for the resizing can be almost completely eliminated by planning ahead before specifying dimensions for a new grob. To some extent the SUB command on the calculator can also be used if you make the grob larger than desired. Like I said, it is a minor addition, but the ability to add or remove rows/columns of pixels in the working file would be quite useful sometimes. Jacob === Subject: Re: How to view vars without pressing the button??? posting-account=GeufLAoAAADMS_LUT0JCUdWjyltOYy5b Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > > How can I view vars in a directory while I«m executing a \ program from > > a library, without pressing the button vars? > > << 2.01 MENU>> > > Hope that helps > > Arnaud I have found the TMENU , does it work similar to 2.01 MENU? I«m programming in user RPL to transform easier to 50 calc thanx === Subject: Re: How to view vars without pressing the button??? posting-account=MKOhFwoAAABYdbJu9wHqeFziRZVKXQQ9 Trident/4.0; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; Media Center PC 5.0; .NET \ CLR 3.5.21022; OfficeLiveConnector.1.3; OfficeLivePatch.1.3; .NET CLR \ 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > I have found the TMENU , does it work similar to 2.01 MENU? > I«m programming in user RPL to transform easier to 50 calc > thanx You shouldn't have to worry about the deference between MENU and TMENU unless you are an advanced user. I would recommend MENU as being more foolproof. Arnaud === Subject: Re: How to view vars without pressing the button??? > You shouldn't have to worry about the difference between MENU and TMENU > unless you are an advanced user. > I would recommend MENU as being more foolproof. If the argument (on the stack) is numeric, there is no difference; if it is anything else, MENU will not only use it as a current menu, but will also store it into 'CST' to serve as the CUSTOM menu (CST on \ HP48). So when I know that I don't want to store into or change my CUSTOM menu, I often use TMENU as more foolproof :) The original question was: > How can I view vars in a directory > while I«m executing a program from library, > without pressing the VARS button? > I want to view the vars directory automatically > instead of the library directory, > once I«m executing the program, > this way I can choose the var I want > directly from the White buttons. Not that it makes any difference, but the last time I saw \white buttons\ was on an HP48 (S[X] or G[X/+]) If you are writing the program or library in question, you can perform 2 MENU (or 2 TMENU) in the program, as Arnaud Amiel said. The user directory, however, may be cluttered up with any other variables, whether they are relevant or not to the program currently being used. If, for example, you want someone to choose from among a list of variable _names_ that are relevant to a program, you might then prefer to use CHOOSE to select the name from a list. [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: How to view vars without pressing the button??? > The user directory, however, may be cluttered up > with any other variables, whether they are relevant or not > to the program currently being used. > > If, for example, you want someone to choose from among > a list of variable _names_ that are relevant to a program, > you might then prefer to use CHOOSE to select the name > from a list. Another idea, if you want to show a menu like VAR, but containing only pertinent variables, is to present your own temporary menu, e.g.: { A B C D E F } TMENU This temporary menu shows a set of variable names, arranged in the exact order you specify, ignoring any irrelevant variables (or variable sequence) which might otherwise appear in the VAR menu. It also allows you to store values into named variables which do not yet exist (the VAR menu can not show variable names which do not yet exist). In most other ways, this menu acts much like the VAR menu, including (in RPN mode) the use of the shift keys as STO and RCL, when followed by any variable's key. Also right-shift cursor-down as \Review\ (show all the stored values) [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: DOERR MSGBOX > Is it possible in User RPL... > to display that triangular caution sign (in the error message)... > using MSGBOX. I believe that Jim Donnelly's (out of print) book \HP48 Handbook, 2nd Edition\ showed how to include a graphic in a message box. It requires function(s) not available in UserRPL commands, but which can be invoked using SYSEVAL and/or LIBEVAL (plus FLASHEVAL on HP49/50 series). Is it also mentioned in any other recently revived SysRPL book? Meanwhile, you can start your MSGBOX string with a substitute, e.g. \[!] This is important\ . === Subject: Re: DOERR MSGBOX posting-account=gc5kvQoAAABztoqWhjNAKB5GLJ6hpqoh InfoPath.2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) I am not good at Sys RPL programming. I just started learning it a few days ago. But I'll try and look up if I find anything like that. Moreover, I don't know how the commands like SYSEVAL, LIBEVAL, FLASHEVAL, etc. work. I have an HP 50g calculator and an example of what I need to know is that if you try to enter :: (double colon/ docole), it pops up an error saying \Invalid syntax\ (with the triangular caution sign and an exclamation mark inside it) which can only be got rid off by any one of those keys. Gurveer === Subject: Re: DOERR MSGBOX > An example of what I need to know is that [a syntax error] > pops up an error saying \Invalid syntax\ (with the > triangular caution sign and an exclamation mark inside it) > [just like MSGBOX] Congratulations, you have found one way to do it in UserRPL. Back up memory, then create this program (carefully :) @ HP49/50 series only! \\<< \\->STR #2EE60h SYSEVAL 0 3 FOR n #2EE78h n + SYSEVAL NEXT \\>> 'MSGBW' STO Now try \Message\ MSGBW This will also produce an \Error beep,\ unless suppressed. As to compiling a string containing SysRPL, on the calculator, have you installed an \extable\ library (Symbol table for SysRPL)? When editing SysRPL, just edit the program as a string; i.e. to start from an empty string, type \\ and put that on the stack, then press cursor-down to start editing the empty string. Do not start by typing :: program ; and expect this to compile as UserRPL. Then use the ASM command in the built-in \Development\ library, to compile the SysRPL/ML string. Built-in library #B1h contains general functions such as DoMsgBox, which you can use in SysRPL. [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: DOERR MSGBOX posting-account=GeufLAoAAADMS_LUT0JCUdWjyltOYy5b Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > Hi > > Is it possible in User RPL to generate an error but a kind of message > box which can be abandoned by pressing only either of the ON key or F6 > or ENTER. The usual DOERR command displays the message but pressing > any key will take that message off the screen whereas the \ ÊMSGBOX > displays the input string which can be got rid off by pressing only > one of the mentioned keys. In other words, the only thing I want is to > display that triangular caution sign (in the error message) with the > input string if possible using MSGBOX. So I need to know if something > can be done to display the error but can only be got rid off by the > mentioned keys. > > > Gurveer Try IFERR it works like IF THEN ELSE END IFERR (program here) THEN (MSGBOX here) ELSE (continue program here) END to get out from the error message just press enter or ok === Subject: Re: Relative Speeds for Programming Languages on HP49g+/50g Le mardi 28 avril 2009, Dave Hayden avait \.8ecrit : > I'm not sure why they put StreamSmart in the ROMs rather than making > it a library. Well, it is a library too :) The main entry point is STRM. === Subject: Re: Relative Speeds for Programming Languages on HP49g+/50g > why they put StreamSmart in the ROMs > rather than making it a library? There are many built-in libraries in ROM; all UserRPL commands are contained in built-in libraries, for example. Perhaps you mean, why not make it an optional external library, like the HP Equation Library, Periodic Table, etc? It would appear that they do not want to have to add anything externally, or to permit it to be accidentally deleted, or one more possibility -- that it may use other ROM functions whose location isn't stable across all ROM versions, in which case you can no more make it a separate, optional component than you could make the CAS such a component, but have to recompile it each time, as part of the whole ROM. Even the HP Equation Library (actually two libraries) was once encumbered in that way, and had to be loaded (and replaced on every ROM update) along with the rest of ROM. Unfortunately, that library \stuck out\ beyond the end of \system ROM,\ into the first \user\ bank, which got erased, along with other user variables, during each ROM update. [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Smartcalc 300s, anyone? \For 20 years or so with no replacement or upgrade of non-graphic scientific calculator of the 42s caliper or better. Unbelievable and really sad!\ The market just isn't what it was 20+ years ago -- the typical engineer is sitting in front of a multi-core multi-GHz laptop or workstation anyway, so \ the demand from the folks who'll drop, e.g., $100+ on a non-graphing calculator is pretty slim. Of course, I'd love to see such a machine as well. It might just have to \ come from someone other than HP though -- they're so big it might really be impossible for them, right now, to release such a design profitably. Even Hydrix -- who clearly had the talent to pull off the Qonos -- couldn't make \ the numbers work out... although perhaps they were just a little *too* \ small. This topic is quite popular at calculator conferences, as you'd expect... I'd be surprised if more than 5% of >$100 calculators were sold to anyone \ who wasn't currently attending high school or college. \To get decent complex and matrix supports on a HP calculator, there is no choice but to go with graphic versions. And they are bulky and heavy.\ The 50g is surprisingly not much bigger than a 35s. Although a 35s is pretty huge compared to, e.g., a 32SII. ---Joel === Subject: Re: Smartcalc 300s, anyone? \ posting-account=B0WVuwoAAAB0jipMiVc4s-L42AIMUuHa Gecko/2009050519 Firefox/3.0.9,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) On May 29, 7:00Êpm, \Joel Koltner\ \ > > I'd be surprised if more than 5% of >$100 calculators were sold to anyone \ who > wasn't currently attending high school or college. > I agree. My impression is that this market pretty much owed by TI in the US. HP has a lot of catching up to do if they really want to compete. HP may have the products but I bet most students talk TI. TI surely make decent calculators. I just think the recent HP calcs (17bII+ silver, 35s, 12c series, and 50g) look better and more professionally appealing. === Subject: Re: Smartcalc 300s, anyone? > My impression is that this market pretty much owed by TI in the US. HP > has a lot of catching up to do if they really want to compete. HP may > have the products but I bet most students talk TI. The problem with HP machines is that they operate primarily in RPL. Most people are lost if there isn't an \=\ key for them to finish off a simple calculation. You often see jokes about HP calculators saying that nobody is going to steal one at school because they don't know how to use them. And there lies the crux of the matter: people see them as too complicated to use. It's a choice. Personally I *prefer* RPL because it's much more efficient in that: 1) You have to think about how you evaluate an expression and therefore make fewer mistakes doing so, and 2) It's great for keeping track of intermediate results. Unfortunately, not many users share that point of view. We're probably a minority in this newsgroup... === Subject: Re: Smartcalc 300s, anyone? \ posting-account=KxEIGwoAAAALMxy6hykxLK1wPdiyuNkK Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > The problem with HP machines is that they operate primarily in RPL. Most > people are lost if there isn't an \=\ key for them to finish off a > simple calculation. You often see jokes about HP calculators saying that > nobody is going to steal one at school because they don't know how to > use them. And there lies the crux of the matter: people see them as too > complicated to use. I think it's more a problem of documentation. After paying no attention to calculator innovations for 25 years, I bought a 50g when my daughter had to get a TI 84 for school. I found the printed manual that came with the 50g extremely confusing. The TI's manual is equally brief, but the things that it *does* cover make sense for a novice reader. Of course one could argue that this isn't a fair comparison because the 50g does so much more than the TI 84, but I still think it's possible to organize the manual in a way that builds up from easy functionality to more advanced stuff. Others can (and do!) disagree with my position, arguing that with an advanced machine, you need to lay down some basics before you get into the functionality. Dave === Subject: Re: Smartcalc 300s, anyone? > The problem with HP machines is that they operate primarily in RPL. > Most people are lost if there isn't an \=\ key > for them to finish off a simple calculation. Quite a few models (including HP49/50 series) have been switchable between RPN and Algebraic -- now offering even two modes of \Algebraic\ (chain or hierarchical) in \Business\ flavor, which originally were solely algebraic, only much later adding RPN (with a drastic memory wipe-out bug lurking in some 17Bii) HP 20b Business Consultant Financial Calculator [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Smartcalc 300s, anyone? > Quite a few models (including HP49/50 series) have been switchable > between RPN and Algebraic -- now offering even two modes That's interesting. I guess the fact that I never got past the 48GX shows... It and the HP-42S are still my all-time faves :) === Subject: Re: Smartcalc 300s, anyone? > Somewhat like an HP15C, certain Casio (and similar) designs require > more dedicated \registers\ to be allocated to the \complex stack,\ > which are acquired by taking registers away from other functions, > which then can no longer be used in Complex mode. a problem anymore. (Heck, look at the HP 35s that has far more memory than \ anyone will every realistically be able to use...) >> Hopefully they'll sell a bunch and HP will crank out more new \ calculators. > \Crank out,\ or is it \re-brand\ ? I've come to accept that HP today is largely a company that specs out \ products and someone else is the OEM -- this is largely true not just for \ calculators, but also for their computers and probably other product lines. But that's OK. So long as they have someone around who can write a good spec -- i.e., someone to serve in the role of \project manager\ -- whether \ the people who actually implement the design are direct HP employees or work for \ Kinpo doesn't bother me. HP isn't doing a stellar job of managing the calculator division at this point, but I do think it's fair to say they're doing a somewhat better job than than immediately after the HP/Agilent split. ---Joel === Subject: Re: Smartcalc 300s, anyone? > To get decent complex and matrix supports on a HP calculator, > there is no choice but to go with graphic versions. > And they are bulky and heavy. > Not suitable for going everywhere. I can fit both an HP48GX and an HP50G into my normal dress shirt pocket! [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Smartcalc 300s, anyone? \ posting-account=B0WVuwoAAAB0jipMiVc4s-L42AIMUuHa Gecko/2009050519 Firefox/3.0.9,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > I can fit both an HP48GX and an HP50G into my normal dress shirt pocket! > > > [r->] [OFF] Ha! ha! I give you credit for cutting off the weight and the bulkiness. :) I don't own any device to give one of these emulators for a spin but I have been using the Free42 on my Linux desktop ever since I learned about it last year. === Subject: Complex Numbers HP 49G+ posting-account=5jQj0AoAAAAGAGJcqkkpunLMBpVi1N5o 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30; InfoPath.2; .NET CLR \ 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) How would I decompose a complex number containing a distance and polar angle? Mark === Subject: Re: Complex Numbers HP 49G+ > How would I decompose a complex number > containing a distance and polar angle? \Decompose\ into what? If you want to \decompose\ into rectangular coordinates, no matter what you see displayed on the screen, the command to use is either C\\->R or OBJ\\-> If you want to \decompose\ into the exact values which you see displayed on the screen, the command to use is V\\-> If you want to \decompose\ into radius and angle, but don't yet see that on the screen, perform CYLIN or SPHERE to get \polar\ display on the screen, as well as DEG or RAD or GRAD to get the desired angle units, then perform V\\-> A \complex number object\ (whose TYPE is 1) contains two internal \real\ values, always representing rectangular coordinates, but in CYLIN or SPHERE modes, the coordinates are automatically transformed to display as polar coordinates on the screen, or when performing \\->STR The V\\-> command is specifically intended to \decompose\ a complex number or a 2D/3D vector into the same coordinates which display on the screen, in the current display modes. The inverse of V\\-> is either \\->V2 or \\->V3, depending on whether you intend to combine two or three numbers from the stack into one complex number or vector object, interpreting the inputs according to the current RECT/CYLIN/SPHERE and DEG/RAD/GRAD modes. Flag -19 determines whether \\->V2 produces a vector or a complex number. Menu 4 (MTH VECTR) contains all of the commands V\\-> \\->V2 \\->V3 [NXT] RECT CYLIN SPHERE Menu 65 (MODES ANGL) contains all of the commands DEG RAD GRAD RECT CYLIN SPHERE A custom menu with popular commands for complex numbers and 2D vectors: { RECT CYLIN V\\-> \\->V2 C\\->R R\\->C DEG RAD GRAD { \VECT\ \\<< -19 CF \\>> } { \CPLX\ \\<< -19 SF \\>> } } TMENU [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Complex Numbers HP 49G+ posting-account=5jQj0AoAAAAGAGJcqkkpunLMBpVi1N5o 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30; InfoPath.2; .NET CLR \ 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > How would I decompose a complex number > > containing a distance and polar angle? > > \Decompose\ into what? > > If you want to \decompose\ into rectangular coordinates, > no matter what you see displayed on the screen, > the command to use is either C\\->R or OBJ\\-> > > If you want to \decompose\ into the exact values > which you see displayed on the screen, > the command to use is V\\-> > > If you want to \decompose\ into radius and angle, > but don't yet see that on the screen, > perform CYLIN or SPHERE to get \polar\ display on the screen, > as well as DEG or RAD or GRAD to get the desired angle units, > then perform V\\-> > > A \complex number object\ (whose TYPE is 1) > contains two internal \real\ values, > always representing rectangular coordinates, > but in CYLIN or SPHERE modes, > the coordinates are automatically transformed > to display as polar coordinates on the screen, > or when performing \\->STR > > The V\\-> command is specifically intended > to \decompose\ a complex number or a 2D/3D vector > into the same coordinates which display on the screen, > in the current display modes. > > The inverse of V\\-> is either \\->V2 or \\->V3, > depending on whether you intend to combine two or three > numbers from the stack into one complex number or vector object, > interpreting the inputs according to the current > RECT/CYLIN/SPHERE and DEG/RAD/GRAD modes. > > Flag -19 determines whether \\->V2 > produces a vector or a complex number. > > Menu 4 (MTH VECTR) contains all of the commands > V\\-> Ê \\->V2 Ê \\->V3 Ê[NXT] \ ÊRECT Ê CYLIN Ê SPHERE > > Menu 65 (MODES ANGL) contains all of the commands > DEG Ê RAD Ê GRAD Ê RECT \ Ê CYLIN Ê SPHERE > > A custom menu with popular commands > for complex numbers and 2D vectors: > > { RECT CYLIN V\\-> \\->V2 C\\->R R\\->C DEG RAD GRAD > { \VECT\ \\<< -19 CF \\>> } { \CPLX\ \\<< -19 SF \\>> } } TMENU > > [r->] [OFF] === Subject: Re: Complex Numbers HP 49G+ > > How would I decompose a complex number containing a distance > and polar angle? > > > Mark One way: With the complex number on the stack execute DUP RE SWAP IM. IIRC this works correctly on all 48/49/50 models. Note that the angle will be in the currently set angular units, radians degrees or grads, which is indicates at the top left of the screen. -- Virgil === Subject: Re: Complex Numbers HP 49G+ posting-account=5jQj0AoAAAAGAGJcqkkpunLMBpVi1N5o 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30; InfoPath.2; .NET CLR \ 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > > > How would I decompose a complex number containing a distance > > and polar angle? > > > > Mark > > One way: > > With the complex number on the stack execute DUP RE SWAP IM. > > IIRC this works correctly on all 48/49/50 models. > > Note that the angle will be in the currently set angular units, radians > degrees or grads, which is indicates at the top left of the screen. > > -- > Virgil === Subject: Re: Complex Numbers HP 49G+ > > > > > > > How would I decompose a complex number containing a distance > > > and polar angle? > > > > > > > Mark > > > > One way: > > > > With the complex number on the stack execute DUP RE SWAP IM. > > > > IIRC this works correctly on all 48/49/50 models. > > > > Note that the angle will be in the currently set angular units, radians > > degrees or grads, which is indicates at the top left of the screen. > > > > -- > > Virgil > Actually I messed up The above sequence of command gives the real and imaginary parts, which can also be done with the C\\->R command. To get the length and angle the sequence of commands should be DUP ABS SWAP ARG To get a menu of commands relevant to complex numbers do left-shift SYMB-key(letter P key ) NXT (letter L key) CMPLX (F3 menu key in top row) Or 20 MENU -- Virgil === Subject: Two programs simultaneously posting-account=gc5kvQoAAABztoqWhjNAKB5GLJ6hpqoh InfoPath.2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) Hi Is it possible to make two programs to run at the same time. What I'm intending to do is to play a chord (musical three notes simlutaneously) using BEEP command so that I can make two frequencies to be played at the same time. Gurveer === Subject: Re: Two programs simultaneously If you are using the HP48G/GX you want MIG 3.2 which plays polyphonic music and even has different sounds. It is available from hpcalc.org. Mark. > Hi > > Is it possible to make two programs to run at the same time. What I'm > intending to do is to play a chord (musical three notes > simlutaneously) using BEEP command so that I can make two frequencies > to be played at the same time. > > > Gurveer === Subject: Re: Two programs simultaneously <4A218AFD.7050605@btinternet.com> posting-account=gc5kvQoAAABztoqWhjNAKB5GLJ6hpqoh InfoPath.2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) Hi I'm sorry but I have an HP 50g calculator. Is there any way out for that? Gurveer === Subject: Re: Two programs simultaneously please take a look at www.hpcalc.org , where you'll find a variety of programs dealing with sound creation. There may also be an explanation why you can't run more than one program (at the same time) on a single-task machine, and about the limited capabilities of the built-in piezo beeper;-) HTH Raymond \Gurveer\ schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Hi > > Is it possible to make two programs to run at the same time. What I'm > intending to do is to play a chord (musical three notes > simlutaneously) using BEEP command so that I can make two frequencies > to be played at the same time. > > > Gurveer === Subject: Re: HP50G Installing & Uninstallingl Libraries \ <345iv4le89m49debck5eam1jni3c47uaim@4ax.com> posting-account=V6LrigoAAACudvZ0KlT32AF1BSfjssFY Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > > > > >A further detail: > > > >(since it actually also stores the calculator \ROM\), > >but it's an \eraseable, rewriteable ROM\ > >(back to the \magic slate\ analogy :) > > >I believe that library functions in \port 2\ (flash) > >like objects in \covered\ ports in HP48GX, > >so their physical storage (and any \gaps\ for \deleted\ objects) > >but only matters when it comes to issues of > >how to store more stuff into flash, when flash is fragmented. > > >[r->] [OFF] > > defragment a hard drive? > Also is there a tutorial on using the filer application and specific > instructions to handle files on the SD card, etc. > The manuals area bit weak in this area. > Harold A Climer > Dept. Of Physics Geology, and Astronomy > U.T, Chattanooga > Rm. 406A Engineering, Math & Computer Science Building > 615 McCallie Ave. Chattanooga TN 37403 > Harold-Ci...@utc.edu I will put soon info on \ http://www.student.montefiore.ulg.ac.be/~merciadri/docs/hp50g/hp50g.pdf about this, if you are interested. === Subject: I'd like to update Nosy but... I'd like to update Nosy to take advantage of the hp50g's large screen but the source code will not compile. I have gone through it very carefully to find out why the asm blinks but unless I missed something there doesn't seem to be a problem with the source. Assuming Nosy was compiled using the included source directory it should work. Any ideas? Fwi I have not yet made any modifications to the source so the errors asm reports aren't due to any modifications I have made. I get the same errors on the 49g and g+ emulators as well. Anna === Subject: How to view vars without pressing the button??? posting-account=GeufLAoAAADMS_LUT0JCUdWjyltOYy5b Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) How can I view vars in a directory while I«m executing a \ program from a library, without pressing the button vars? I want to view the vars directory automatically instead of the library directory once I«m executing the program, this way I can \ choose the var I want directly from the White buttons. === Subject: Re: How to view vars without pressing the button??? posting-account=MKOhFwoAAABYdbJu9wHqeFziRZVKXQQ9 Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > How can I view vars in a directory while I«m executing a \ program from > a library, without pressing the button vars? << 2.01 MENU>> Hope that helps Arnaud === Subject: Re: Smartcalc 300s, anyone? posting-account=B0WVuwoAAAB0jipMiVc4s-L42AIMUuHa Gecko/2009050519 Firefox/3.0.9,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) On May 26, 12:39Êpm, \Joel Koltner\ \ > Has anyone here received an HP Smartcalc 300s to play with yet? > (http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press \ kits/2009/calculators2009/HPS...) > The obvious comparison is to something like a Casio FX-115ES -- the $15 \ price > is certainly quite competitive. > > I do wish some of these sorts of calculators (non-graphing but with full > dot-matrix LCD w/\textbook display\ modes) would support complex \ airthmetic > and were programmable! > > ---Joel Hi Joel, I don't think the SmartCalc 300s can be compared to the Casio fx-115ES or the Sharp EL-W516B in term of functions, both of which has over 400 (vs. 249 for the SmartCalc). I know what to expect of the calculators like Casio and Sharp which priced for less than US $20.00, and I expect better quality from HP. However, from all the comments I read so far, the SmartCalc 300s may get the look (subjectively), but the feel is a different story. The SC is priced at US $14.99 while the Casio fx-115ES and Sharp EL- W516B are priced around US $17.99 ~ $19.99, depends where I look. That alone tells me the SC offers less. The photo of SC shows keyboard labels are very similar to that of Casio/Sharp, probably one of these wearing a HP costume. BTW, I have both Casio/Sharp. Both of these have keyboards look clustered with most keys having 3 labels, just like the HP-32SII. The Sharp EL-516B has one advantage over the Casio fx-115ES that I like: continuous memory. Neither are programmable, which is OK with me. If you are looking for a throw-around calculator, the Casio or Sharp is up to the job. Unless you really, really want *that* HP. :) === Subject: Re: Smartcalc 300s, anyone? I was thinking of getting a Smartcalc 300s for a \throwaway\ machine to \ keep in the car, but I'm leaning towards a Sharp EK-W516B instead at this point. I'm also seriously thinking of ditching my HP 35s due to missing keystroke problems, and just using my 50g for any \serious\ computation -- it's only \ a little bigger than a 35s anyway. ---Joel === Subject: Re: Smartcalc 300s, anyone? posting-account=wqkV0woAAAB1mLvnqXNbsoqiBA--qmc6 CLR 1.1.4322; InfoPath.1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) ItÕs nice to see HP is listening to their customer base with \ the release of this new model. The HP300s comes with Rectangular / Polar conversions assigned back to keys. IÕm not a fan of only \ algebraic and no RPN, and the HP300s is also non-programmable so IÕm \ not going to find much use for it personally. The HP300s is built on the industrial design platform again, just like the HP20B and is slightly longer than the HP20B. The new HP EasyCalc100 also shares a similar design. The only flaw I see with these new designs is the shiny plastic material is too shiny and tarnishes very easy by fingerprints. HP would have been better to use the same material as see on the HP35S instead. However all things said the HP300s appears to be a step in the right direction for HP and there is hope that when the HP35S is upgraded (if it is ever upgraded) we may see a return of the Rectangular / Polar conversions in the next model. NoelÉ www.geocalc.com.au === Subject: Re: Smartcalc 300s, anyone? \Itâs nice to see HP is listening to their customer base with the release of this new model. The HP300s comes with Rectangular / Polar conversions assigned back to keys.\ Good point. A major gripe with the 35s is that the often used \STO\ key \ is shifted, whereas seemingly lesser-used keys (e.g., \MODE\) aren't. \Iâm not a fan of only algebraic and no RPN, and the HP300s is also non-programmable so Iâm not going to find much use for it personally.\ Yeah, same here, but for such an inexpensive machine and considering the market right now, I'm OK with it. ---Joel === Subject: Re: Smartcalc 300s, anyone? > I've just got mine and made some comments > on the internal rounding it uses: > http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi?read=151117 Nice analysis; same old Casio \round to a nice-looking exact number\ \ game, as you said, resulting in a final, significantly inaccurate result, at the same time that the PDF marketing blurb nonsensically proclaims: HP Quality and suport: o HP's legendary heritage of accuracy and reliability. o Award-winning support. Years of keys falling off (and symbols rubbing off before that) left a long gap in reliability, years of reports about customer support may make one wonder about the algebraic sign of its awards, and reports about the delivered results, in recent models, suggest a long lost legend. Perhaps what's being revived is the comparison of calculator results vs. a slide rule, in which even \Casio arithmetic\ still wins hands down. A genuinely superior product does not need that much hype, and one may recall (or read about) the era in which there was up to several months' backlog of orders for the HP35, whose marketing materials contained not one vacuous word (except one phrase, IIRC \accuracy directly traceable to U.S. National Bureau of Standards,\ which was evidently so routinely included in all the HP electronic instrument literature that no one spotted to drop it from the first calculator promotions :) [r->] [OFF]