The L1791 is not updated for the ROM 1.19-6 You may use the latest OT49 from Wolfgang Rautenberg [VPN] Yes, library 1791. (Not APPSMAN!) this is Carstens comment on hpcalc.org Carsten Dominik 2001-09-18 09:03:19 WARNING: This lib has a badly written $EXTPRG and will crash your calculator with memory loss in ROM 1.19-6 and later!!! Sorry to bug you, but only one day left on this auction. I used this to help me prepare for the PE and now I don't have a need for it. Please e-mail me with any questions: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1292016346 CJ Well i managed to get everything done finally. It is all uploaded to hpcalc.org and should appear on the next update. The stat program I was working on is availible for both the 39/40, and the 49. The slightly updated comparison documents, a document discussing advanced aplet programming for the 39/40 is finished (and on Eduardo's excellent site), my 20 things document (also on eduardo's site). Anyway. . . Bye everyone! Looking forward to seeing what will be availible when I get back! Who knows? Maybe Steen will be done with his project and send one to me so I can write a document about it. . . ;-) TW ~The enemy's gate is down. . . signing off . . . . . . . *click* =) Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142569 The 39/40G version of the stats program will also be available from my site. It's VERY impressive and definitely a must have for any 39/40G user, particularly those doing stats at university level. Since Tim's not going to be available for some time I am happy to have bugs reported to me. I won't be able to do anything about them except acknowledge receipt, but I'll store them and pass them on to Tim when he returns. On the other hand, if any of you sRPL gurus would rather take over this role and actually fix the bugs too, feel free to volunteer. :-) Tim Wessman wrote: -- Colin Croft Old mathematicians never die; they just lose some of their functions. ====================================== Applications in Mathematics ccroft@iinet.net.au http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/ ====================================== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142548 I have hp48g+, and yesterday on my lcd appear a 1 number on the top (in the center, over date) What is this 1? In which way I can return in normal state?! Best regards. Giulio User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Developer-Friendly Unix APIs) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142554 Damn. I was wondering when this would show up again. It is a virus. You *MUST* do the following to get rid of it and do it *IMMEDIATELY* or the consequences are grave: type the following 1 CF then press the ENTER key and pray for the best. Sorry for your plight. -Al charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142556 Oh my, it has been a long time since that question came up :-) The HP48 series shows the state of the first 5 user flags in the top of the display - for each one set, the corresponding number is displayed there. Use the command CF to clear a flag - user flags are from 1 to 64, system flags are from -1 to -64. See alse the commands RCLF, STOF, SF, FS?, FC?, FS?C and FC?C. Regards Steen User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Developer-Friendly Unix APIs) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142558 Aww, Steen! You ruined the fun. :-P -Al Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142606 Please ignore Steen's post: he is just saying what the Quality Control would have said, in order not to worry the poor user. For more information on that, see http://cgi-bin.spaceports.com/~hpkb/view.php?code=1f0d4b6afc643b8e9b0b8566ad be168f -- DeVries' Dilemma: If you hit two keys on the typewriter, the one you don't want hits the paper. Eduardo M Kalinowski ekalin@bol.com.br -- **Novo e-mail** **New e-mail** http://move.to/hpkb charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142614 http://cgi-bin.spaceports.com/~hpkb/view.php?code=1f0d4b6afc643b8e9b0b8566ad be168f LOL :-) Regards Steen charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142615 Sorry - it didn't turn up on my news server before it was too late :-) Regards Steen X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142620 hi all I have clear all object in my hp48gx but I haven't only 60 k free there are invisible object in my port 0 rests (residual) of some library (grrrrr....bad library) I have need of all 128 k....... help me please help me please many kiss from italy luisa Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142622 May we presume then, that you have no user variables in HOME? If so, the simplest solution would be ON-A-F and reply NO when asked if you want to recover memory. Dennis NNTP-Posting-Host: user156070.dial.netline.net.uk Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142435 I've crossposted from alt.lang.basic for the writer. Please reply to me jwwed@supanet.com ----------------------------- Original post ----------------------------- how do I write an HP48 emulator in dos How 2 do it? PS: i've not crossposted to comp.sys.hp(?)because i don't have access to it. Thank U for reading :-} -- ICQ: 127036017 && 126735906 mIRC on #Win9x na Brasnet e #Novocanal da Dalnet, al216m de irc.via-rs.com.br no canal #chatcity. AIm: Renan Birck ComVC:1127268 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142516 Does anyone know where I can download a copy of the HP39/40G manual in pdf format? I thought I remembered seeing it on HPs site but I can't find it now. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142532 The site or the manual ? (The site is here: http://www.hp.com/calculators/techsupport/bm_manuals.html) As far I know the 39/40 manuals were never available in electronic form :-( If they are, I'd like to know the link as well. Bye, Detlef -- `What a depressingly stupid machine' Detlef Mueller -- Marvin Detlef[DOT]M[AT]hamburg[DOT]de http://mein.hamburg.de/homepage/grendel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Inktomi-Trace: arninkcluster 1005331964 25551 62.163.119.24 (9 Nov 2001 18:52:44 GMT) Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142542 Hi, I do have an English version of the P39/40G manual (zipped 1.2Mb, version 1.1). It was on the HP-website when the calc's just came out, but now I can't find it anymore. Arnold wrote: Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142451 On Tue, 06 Nov 2001 07:51:56 GMT, Jonathan Purvis Would there be a chance for an HP-16C? A computer programmer calculator on the palm! Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142581 news:3be7c3e1.207571466@news.mnsi.net... You mean something better than http://ca-on.hpcalc.org/hp48/pc/emulators/wrpn.zip ? VPN Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142602 On Sat, 10 Nov 2001 10:25:44 +0200, Veli-Pekka Nousiainen I guess that you did not see for the Palm not Win9X. My desktop is too darn big to haul around ;-). Thanks NNTP-Posting-Host: news3.accesscomm.ca X-Trace: news.chatlink.com 1005368301 24595 204.83.142.119 (10 Nov 2001 04:58:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@chatlink.com Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142570 Hi, I want to create a user defined function with my hp48G using summation. An example : ybar(k, Ni, ybari, N) = sum(Ni*ybari)*1/N where k in an end index(I'm not sure if I need the k in there or not). Thanks, Kelly Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142585 Press DEF on your keyboard with your expression on the stack. VPN news:3becb38f$1@news3.accesscomm.ca... NNTP-Posting-Host: pingo.fsb.hr Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142417 Hello Week ago I bought myself HP49G. Well, I can't say that I'm too happy to read all this stuff about ACO and such, but what should I say. I know why I bought it, and I'm wery pleased with it. I have few questions. When I try to transfer some programs from friend's 48 to my 49, both calculators report invalid syntax, and stop the transfer. What could be the cause, and how can I fix that. Is there any program for 49, that can calculate specific heat capacity. Thanks. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142419 In both calculators use ASCII transfer In the 49G: [MODE] [F3] [DOWN-ARROW] [DOWN-ARROW] Check the Approx Mode by pressing [F3] [F6] [F6] Now your 49G is in the 48G Compatibility Mode I hope this helped! Veli-Pekka PS: you're not related to O. BLaden, are you? ;-) news:9sb70b$6kn$1@bagan.srce.hr... read 48 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142528 my calculator always shows me the screen of non-system at the time of turn it, I have tried to update the system, but at the time of placing the cable to calculator appers rays in the screen that are disappeared until placing the screen in target completely, which implies that when treatment to update the calculator I place it in terminal mode (without the cable), soon I place the cable and I must press [ 1 ] (download system) follow the instructions but to my it does not appear nothing to me because I must place the cable, and in the screen of estatus it shows (codigo=00 and finished time to me when I disconnect it), otherwise does not appear nothing. (apparently) when i put the cable the calculator turn off or somethig that i don't know , and the cable works since I have proven it with other calculators. Please somebody help me!!!!!!!!!!!! Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142546 It would be a lot better if you'd just post in your native language. OK, here's what I extract from the above 1. something is wrong with your calculator. 2. you can tell that something is wrong because your calculator displays something unusual. 3. you tried to install a new ROM, following unspecified instructions 4. as you plugged the cable into your calculator, you saw odd visual effects on the screen, which ended when the cable was fully inserted. 5. You think that this means that you must put the calculator into something called a terminal mode. 6. After pressing '1' in response to some prompt from the calculator you follow more of the aforementioned instructions and see nothing... because the cable is not plugged in!? 7. You get errors and see something and then see nothing more. 8. You think that all this is somehow related to your calculator turning off when you plug the cable into it. 9. Your cable works fine with other calculators. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142588 I had the same thing, and erasing port0 with P0ERASE from hpcalc.org fixed my problem -- This message was written with 100% recycled electrons Pivo Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142514 Heeello again, Surfing the net I found this web in HP about its timeline.. Funny to read things like this: DAVID PACKARD CREATES the concept of Management by Walking Around (MBWA). I learned that quality requires minute attention to every detail, that everyone in an organization wants to do a good job, that written instructions are seldom adequate, and that personal involvement needs to be frequent, friendly, unfocused, and unscheduled—but far from pointless. And since its principal aim is to seek out people's thoughts and opinions, it requires good listening. The site is in: http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/hpads/1999/timeline/timeline.html Hava a nice day, J.Manrique CdU de la ETSIG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142429 Hewlett Family Opposes Support of Compaq Deal: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54760-2001Nov7.html Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142444 Hewlett Family, Packard Heir Oppose Compaq Merger: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50356-2001Nov6.html Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142520 This week : http://www.hp-sources.com/hpparty/ http://www.hp-sources.com/hpparty/programme.asp :)) Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142388 Ok. I have tried to use this method to display characters on the screen. But it does not seem to work. Anyone know what is wrong with the following code? Thanks ASSEMBLE NIBASC HPHP49-C RPL :: CODE GOSBVL =SAVPTR * Save RPL pointers GOSUB ASCII NIBHEX 6464 ASCII C=RSTK D1=C LC(5) 00022 D=C A B=0 A LC(5) 00004 GOSBVL =$5x7 GOVLNG =GETPTRLOOP * return to System RPL ENDCODE ; X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142421 Hello news:cbd834ed.0111061940.14bb19de@posting.google.com... Here is thedocumentation for the entry $5x7: ***************************************************************** ***************************************************************** ** *A Name: $5x7 - Write 5x7 pxl data for string at Ith char in Row ** ** Category: DSPUTL ** ** Abstract: Writes 5x7 bit patterns for given character string ** starting at specified address (S) offset by a character ** position index (I). Data for subsequent pixel rows of ** each character is offset by (W) nibs from the preceding. ** ** ** D0:S (Start of row) ** B[A]: I (Chr Pos'n (0 - ..)) ** C[A]: N (String Length) ** D[A]: W (Row Width in nibs) ** ** Exit: 5x7 Bit Pattern for string written. ** XM: Font Table Flag (0=5x7, 1=5x9) ** CC iff next chr is at even location. ** ** Alters: CPU - A[A],B[A],C[S,A]; D0,D1; P, CARRY, SB,XM ** RAM - Destination ** ** Calls: PtBits(0), sub8/10(0), Set8/10(0) ** ** Stack Levels: 4 (RSTK=C GOSUB go?Covered CON(5) =cPt2Bits) ** ** Notes: ** (1). The 5x7 font for Chr Pixels is at =PIX5X7, 16 bytes/chr ** The 5x9 font for Chr Pixels is at =PIX5X9, 20 bytes/chr ** -------------------------------------------------------------- ** (2). Generally, the starting address S is the start of ** pixel data for a row of the display. I is an ** option base 0 index specifying where the pixel data for ** the 1st character will start in the given row. The ** address X where the 1st character will start is: ** ** X := S + 1.5*I (each char takes 6 bits = 1.5 nibs) ** ** The width W is the number of nibs that must be added to ** X to obtain the address where the 2nd row of pixel data ** for the 1st char should be written. ** -------------------------------------------------------------- ** (3). Applications - Writing string pixel data: ** ** a) Into a grob. ** b) Directly into Display Refresh RAM ** ** Implied by (a) is substring replacement operations. ** ie; ability to replace a specified number of characters ** in a grob with others. ** -------------------------------------------------------------- ** D0:S (Start of row) ** B[A]: I (Chr Pos'n (0 - ..)) ** C[A]: N (String Length) ** D[A]: W (Row Width in nibs) As you can see, your WIDTH is incorrectly set, it should be zero if you want to display at the beginning of the screen (cf the documentation Cheers Jean-Yves Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 14:54:45 +0100 Reply-To: t.rast@freesurf.ch X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [de] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16 i586) X-Accept-Language: de-CH, de, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48 Subject: Re: HP Tools CSTRING Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142422 Timothy Ney wrote: This is what I'd do (tested, but not in Jazz syntax): ASSEMBLE NIBASC HPHP49-C RPL :: CODE GOSBVL =SAVPTR GOSUB ascii NIBHEX 6464 * NIBASC FF should also work ascii C=RSTK D1=C LC(5) #22 * 22h = 34d nibbles D=C A B=0 A LC(5) #2 * FF is only two characters GOSBVL =$5x7 GOVLNG =GETPTRLOOP ENDCODE ( now freeze the screen, else you won't see anything ) SetDAsTemp ; Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them. ICQ# 103670088 -- Harry S. Truman User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Developer-Friendly Unix APIs) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142427 Hey Jean-Yves, In case this documentation does not exist for the public in such a thorough form, is there a chance we could get a copy of it? This would be wondereful! Rgds, -Al -- -Al Arduengo ------------ If at first you don't succeed, redefine success. -- -Al Arduengo ------------ The higher we soar, the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly. -- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietsche X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142448 Hello Al news:877kt2fwsj.fsf@austin.rr.com... Well, that's the information you find in the source code itself jean-yves User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Developer-Friendly Unix APIs) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142450 snip -- -Al Arduengo ------------ Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. -- Sigmund Freud -- -Al Arduengo ------------ He who laughs last thinks slowest! Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142453 What should I see? At the moment, all I can see is a smudge in the top left hand corner of the screen. Do I need to adjust settings etc. on the 49 to see the string? Confused Now. I am compiling under HP Tools. Timothy Ney Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:39:40 +0100 Reply-To: t.rast@freesurf.ch X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [de] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16 i586) X-Accept-Language: de-CH, de, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48 Subject: Re: HP Tools CSTRING Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142486 Timothy Ney wrote: It may be a mistake in my conversion from MASD to Jazz/HPTools syntax (I only use the GNUTools for hacking around on Jazz). This is my MASD source: :: CODE GOSUB .c NIBHEX 6464 *.c C=RSTK D1=C LC(5) 34 D=C.A B=0.A LC(5) 2 GOSBVL $5x7 LOADRPL ENDCODE SetDAsTemp ; CRC #01FAh, 42 bytes Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them. ICQ# 103670088 -- Harry S. Truman Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142533 Today I explored the HACK library a little while being bored in class, and I remembered on another thread someone mentioning that you could use something out of HACK to convert all the integers in an algebraic object to reals (only at the time this was called approx, or something), and someone else suggested another library off of hpcalc.org to do this. Well, I noticed the HACK command(s) I think this person meant, and had the following program written soon after. This seems to work fine. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142416 Yep, you are right about speed. I still wonder though, what speed could be reached if the hardware would be a little more modern. Hmmm, and is it as easy to use? I mean is it: buy it, get it out of the box and use it? I have the (perhaps wrong) impression that PocketPC and GPL software are not as easy to get them running. Or do I live in the past (again)? Now, *that* is a good idea! I hope that all people from the scientific/technology world can stand together, to give the companies reason for making a math-PDA at last. :-) Well, if everything is pre-installed and works before delivery then it would be fine. But it would be not so good to expect from the user to be a PC expert to install and configure everything. Yes, yes, yes. :-) I meant something that doesn't need a standard OS (windows -yacks!!!) for other software to run. Something that has its own (easy) OS and doesn't need 100 configuration files, only to tell you then that program A can't run because file B is not there. (While you see that file B is there ;-) ) What is Maxima? Math-software? Yes, and a very strong touch, it seems. Do you think that the Jedis will return? What do you think it would be like? I guess it would be more in the direction of the question, is A.I a living thing or not? If it knows that it is there, it is a living thing? Take care, Nick. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142559 Hi All; I am a past employee of HP and a current stockholder and have sent a couple of emails to various people in the HP company. It will be interesting to see if they are even acknowledged. Don Foster Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142489 Hello, I'm just programming a little in UserRPL, and now I'm in need to convert a list of elements (real numbers) into a vector. Has anyone an idea, for i couldn't find a suitable command in the manual. Thanks Paul User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Developer-Friendly Unix APIs) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142493 works pretty well. If you are using a HP49, I think AXL would work. -Al m_korium@hotmail.com (Paul Strobel) writes: -- -Al Arduengo ------------ Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. That's relativity. -- Albert Einstein -- -Al Arduengo ------------ If you can smile when things go wrong, you have someone in mind to blame. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142494 Paul Strobel schreef: I bet it is in the manual but here it goes: -- This message was written with 100% recycled electrons Pivo From: newbury@mandamus.org (R. G. Newbury) Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48 User-Agent: ProNews/2 V1.51.ib102 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 49 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142496 On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 18:33:06, m_korium@hotmail.com (Paul Strobel) wrote: Chapter 12 of the User's Guide starting at page 12-11, and continueing on to chapter 13 for the 48G. There are built in commands for 'vectorization' and parallel commands which you might 'think' should work, but don't. you { 2.0 45.0} This is a LIST, not a vector or an array. you [ 2.0, 45.0 ] This looks like a vector. [2.0, 45.0] directly. If you want a 'radius, angle' type of vector you have to change from RECT mode to CYLIN *before* the conversion. '<' stands in for the little angle glyph which is on the keyboard as {rightarrow SPC}. Note that changing the mode to Cylin has the effect of changing all vectors in the stack to their 'other' form.. conversions which existed on the HP41 and from the 48SX. I ended up writing small subroutines which do these conversions on the 48GX changing mode as required and restoring them. The conversion normalizes theta to +/- 180 which is no good for navigation.. The implementation is left to the student as a learning experience (because in fact, you will learn more by playing around and writing your own.. You can also use the -15, -16, -17 and -18 flags, which makes state restoration easier to assess and reset.) Geoff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142504 { 2 3 4 } [ [ 2 3 4 ] ] This works for every dimension. Regards Christoph news:ae5baadc.0111081033.4be7e587@posting.google.com... Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142524 If you have the 49 put the list on the stack and type AXL. Converts lists to arrays and vice versa. Greetings, Nick. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142530 AXL Michael -- -= Key fingerprint = 74 FD 0A E3 8B 2A 79 82 25 D0 AD 2B 75 6A AE 63 -= PGP public key (0xE0A5731D) available on request. =--------------- Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142573 When flag -91 is set, pressing the down arrow to edit a list will bring up the matrix editor, which is great for editing lists of lists -- very fast and efficient entry and simple and visual entry. but I've had lists with more than 2 'dimensions', and the matrix editor will only let me edit these inner lists with the 49G editor on one line (sometimes you can get multiple lines, but it doesn't seem to normally expand to such; you can input multiple line objects easy), and this is less convenient. The object I use for my study program looks like this: {name {{1 2} {3 4}}} I EVAL it and then call a CHOOSE and do other stuff, this last being the meat of the program. I can't edit this object easily in the matrix editor, because the tail of it will show as one object. So normally I'll split this object and then bring the matrix editor on the tail myself -- but even this fails, when the 'value' that I want from a 'key' given to CHOOSE is itself a list! -- or a multiline object, which I still can't edit nicely because I'll only see one line. So... is there a way that I can, with the matrix editor, A) call my own editor on an object based on its type (such as the matrix editor!), or B) recursively edit lists, say nesting into a list in the matrix editor and popping back to the main list. If not, is there a program as fast and as nice as the 49G's matrix editor that I can use instead? Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142592 news:76ea4fd3.0111092140.1be1f431@posting.google.com... Highlight the tail with the cursor, then hold down LS and press A: a new instance of the editor will open. This way you can work on nested list without having to split the list. When you reach a program, the TE will open, but the object will wrap on multiple lines. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142618 Wow, thanks! This is perfect -- but where is it documented? Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142553 Babal is a simple game in which you move a ball through a map, jumping over gaps. This makes it sound easy, or boring. It isn't. It's very hard. It takes great coordination and skill. Anyway, I'm about my hack on Babal. It's pretty easy. What I did is this: First, I opened the library with OT49. The variable 'x006' contains the map Babal uses, an 8x1024 grob. I replaced 'x006' with a program that tries first to load a map from a variable from HOME and, if this fails, from the new variable 'x00A' which I add to the Babal library. I added another program that stores the map from 'x00A' to the variable in HOME. Now when you're feeling bored (hah!) you can play a new map. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142597 last time i heard, babal supports playing your own levels...read the docs.There is even a level manager. Reply-To: am@ostenfeld.dk NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.38.216.34 Mime-Version: 1.0 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142446 Hello Eveyrone! I've been asking lots of questions here lately, mainly because I'm still in the process of configuring my Calc to suit my needs as an engineering student. My intention is to post most of my config here, and maybe get some new ideas and feedback from you! (Before commenting the names of my dirs and variables, keep in mind that it's just names that fits my taste... I'm sure everybody would come up with something different.) OK, about my Calc: It's a HP48GX with the newest Rom and a 512 Kb memory card. Hmm, anything else? I don't think so, let's get on with it! - INSTALLED LIBRARIES - Port0: (68K Free) 257: UFL (full version) 787: Kernel (Erable) 905: QPI 1081: GxTools 5.1 1696: AllMem Port2: (104K Free) 769: Tetris (yeah!) 807: TicTacToe 1111: Sokoban 1213: Lemmings Port3: (56K Free) 744: SymVector 909: Alg48 4.2 911: SpecFun (Alg48) 913: InteGr (Alg48) 1494: NeoPoly 6.5 Port4: (57K Free) 788: Erable v. 3.117 789: Arit (Erable) 790: Geom (Erable) 791: Prep (Erable) 792: LinAlg (Erable) Port5: (123K Free) System Backup - HOME DIRECTORY STRUCTURE - First, I have 6 subdirectories for CST-menu: Numeric, Games, Utilities, Applications, Computer, Conversion Numeric is equivalent to the Calc's MTH menu, just more advanced, and with the commands I use (more about that later). Games is for entertainment! :-) Utilities is for extensions to the calc, not found in the MTH menu (e.g. Limits, Diff. Equations, Integrals etc.). Applications is for specific programs (none installed yet). Computer contains user units from bit to Tbit and byte to Tbyte. Conversion contain radian, binary and HMS conversion commands. Next is 4 subdirs for customization: Formulas, Functions, Text, Libraries Formulas is for custom equations from textbooks, which can be solved with the equation solver. Functions is where I store my custom programs (mainly vector/complex commands, and my RD10 program). Text is for storing small messages and ToDo notes - nice and handy. Libraries is primarily for storage of downloaded/uninstalled libraries but currently I only have a backup copy of Keys and Flags there. Then there's 2 variables EQ and VX, and the user units byte/bit-Tbyte/bit. And of course CST-menu and parameter files. - USER KEYS - OK, now it gets interesting. The very first custom element is, that the keys A-F have shift-assignments. This is virtually 12 free user keys, as I very rarely use shifted menus (and if I must, I can turn off user). For my basic config, these 6 have the letters A-F left-assigned, and X,Y,Z,N,T and my function dir ({HOME Functions}) right-assigned. Next up, alpha-right H and J is assigned to -OO and +OO (that's infinity). Then right-[STO] is STEQ and left-[<-] is AllMem; right-[EVAL] is QPI and [EVAL] is my RD10 function, which converts to numeric, and rounds the answer to 10 digits (QPI can still convert correctly to symbolic). For alpha keyboard, right-V, right-W and right-X is assigned to their normal functions (root, y^x and 1/x), so you can use them while in alpha mode. The [ENTER] key has DUP assigned to the left and EVAL assigned to the right (I rarely use Equation/Matrix), these commands are more handy for programming purposes... Finally, right-[DEL] has array to list conversion, and right-[BS] has array (2D) to complex conversion. In addition, the 9 number keys have some key bindings in user mode, for instance 6 (units) have unit factorization (left) and SI-unit conversion (right). In some cases I have to turn off the user keys if I want to enter the standard applications, but I prefer command line operations all the way. - CUSTOM MENU - Finally, there's the custom menu. Apart from the basic commands mentioned in the dir section, there are some more submenus in the Numeric and Utility parts. The Numeric menu contains 6 submenus so far: Vector, Matrix, Polynomial, Algebra, Real, Complex The first 4 are special, since when you enter these menus, part of the keyboard is also remapped. Vector and Matrix has commands from Alg48 assigned to the +, -, *, / and 1/x buttons. Besides, the right-[ENTER] is now the Erable command EXPAND instead of EVAL. Polynomial has commands from NeoPoly assigned to the equivalent buttons (y^x instead of 1/x), and Algebra returns the keyboard to normal. The Utility menu contains 4 submenus, namely: Simplify, Limits, Integration, Diff. Equations. Here I've put different Erable commands for these subjects... For instance, my integration menu is: - FINAL REMARKS - For the custom menu, I've made GROB's to represent: 1: The 4 first labels in the Numeric menu, because programs are executed. 2: The first label in every dir-menu, so that you can tell CST-menu from VAR's (the first tab is slighty longer). I would like to enhance my configuration even more, but I still need to do some of the menus... I've also thought about installing EQSTK, it's my impression it will work well with this config. But please, if you have any comments, do not hesitate to respond, I'm interested in your feedback! best regards, Artur -- . Artur Meinild . . . . . : . 232lge R ud237r . . . ___________________________________________________ E·mail : 6paq@messages.to : W·mail : 6paq@go.to E·site : 6paq.messages.to : W·site : 6paq.go.to Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142449 I just got the 49G and the instructions are horrible that came with it. I was wondering how I would go about doing the sample program the instructions give on page 10-2? I type it all out on the main line but when I push STO the words come out instead of the arrow. Am I supposed to be in some special mode? Also How would I use an equation written in pretty type and put that into the program? Is there a site with a better manual? Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142466 Verify you're in RPN mode: that's the best way to get quickly a good programmer on the HP49g. Press 'Mode', then choose 'RPN' instead of the level 1 of the stack. Enter the name of the variable you want to use, with simple quotes: 'NameOfProg'. Now you have on level 2 the prog, an on level 1 the global name of the prog. Press 'STO'. It should work ! A piece of advice: forget absolutely Algebraic programming: very slow, very few people using it... Anyway, you can either press the key 'STO' or type in the command line 'STO' and then valid: both work in RPN mode. For tutorials, visit www.hpcalc.org, www.hp-network.com (french-speaking site) or www.hp-sources.com (french too) I hope it will help you, Regards, HPThifu Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142474 First of all, are you in RPN or algebraic mode? Generally speaking, when you program, you start and end the program by before the program end delimiter, then this command is added as a part of the program. In algebraic mode, you can press ENTER when typing the program is finished, and then use STO to store the program. In RPN Mode you can press ENTER then the name of the variable to store the program and the press STO to store the program. Hope it helped, Nick. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142479 to get out of it. THen I push STO and type a name in. It says too few arguments and doesnt show the arrow when I push STO. news:cd9ca36b.0111080536.5105c455@posting.google.com... I instructions STO and User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Developer-Friendly Unix APIs) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142483 Remember, RPN requires the arguments THEN the command. You are pressing STO when there is no name on the stack to store the code in. Simply press ENTER when you are done typing the program. Then type in a name between the '' marks (use the ' key) press ENTER again. You should now have your program on stack level 1 and the name on stack level 2. *Then* press STO. -Al -- -Al Arduengo ------------ ** Hello and Welcome to the Psychiatric Hotline ** If you are obsessive-compulsive, please press 1 repeatedly. If you are co-dependent, please ask someone to press 2. If you have multiple personalities, please press 3, 4, 5 and 6. If you are paranoid-delusional, we know who you are and what you want - just stay on the line so we can trace the call. If you are -- -Al Arduengo ------------ Software is like sex: the best is for free -- Linus Torvalds Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142522 Exactly as Al said. First arguments then commands. Like on the PC, first mark something with the mouse (argument) then do something with it (command). Just for completeness, you could also collect all arguments on the command line. In your case, use arrow keys to go past end program delimiter, then type the name of the variable to store the program in quotes , then press STO. Command line looks like: Then press STO. Greetings, Nick. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142539 Why do these two calculators (the 48GX and 49G) often pause a second or two for no apparent reason while running programs, typing, graphing, etc? NNTP-Posting-Host: dunlop.cis.strath.ac.uk Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142540 Garbage collection? As an aside, I noticed a huge speed-up on my 49G after a recent firmware upgrade. Can't remember the exact version, but it was detailed in the changelog as speed improvements. pauses occurs now much less frequent, and the general speed is much better. Especially when the messages boxes pop up, like when you press the backspace and the stack is empty. Karl -- Karl-Martin Skontorp http://skontorp.net/ Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142571 (OK. Mawk... Emacs... is anyone else planning on writing an xcellent program like these, drawing inspiration from something common in unix?) If you've ever written a program of any kind that manipulates a string in any way, or thought of doing so, or know someone who might want to do so, or worry that you might be stranded on a desert island somewhere with only your calculator, you should get mawk -- just in case =) Mawk is a library of 57 string manipulation commands, some of which are * $CPR - compress multiple instances of a character to one instance * $CRY - reversibly crypt a string by a two-digit real * $SCT - count all occurences of one string in another * $CTS - center a string in another, with some implications I've yet to master * $MKS - create a string from one character to another (say, for a string of all the characters, pass it 0. CHR and 255. CHR) * $MAP - for each character in a string, replace it with whatever character its ascii code maps to in another string. Really useful. * $LUT - like $MAP, except the character is found in one string and replaced with the corresponding character of a third * $POZ - A.K.A. 'pos_with_even_more_extensions', this is a neat search command using a simple regular expression language * $ROZ - like $POZ, but replaces matches * $SPL - plots a byte sequence represented by a string =) * $WRP - ('word_wrap') reformats a string to a certain width There, and this is only 11 comands out of 57. I think they speak for themselves, don't you? (it ain't Perl, but it's good enough!) Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:06:35 +0100 Reply-To: t.rast@freesurf.ch X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [de] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16 i586) X-Accept-Language: de-CH, de, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48 Subject: Re: Praise for mawk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142590 Julian Fondren wrote: [...] Why not write a full-featured Perl interpreter? Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them. ICQ# 103670088 -- Harry S. Truman Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142617 That's actually be a little less convenient than mawk, since mawk is organized into commands and a Perl interpreter would require all sorts of interface problems -- and not all of Perl is relevant, anyway. A *complete* Perlian regex mechanism would be ideal, and more powerful than anything else yet seen. There's a Forth regex engine on par with Perl's, as I suddenly remember... I'll take a closer look at it. (then again, a Perl interpreter would be useful in lots of ways =) Has anyone written an interpreter for any language for the 48/49 yet?) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142593 Try and ask at http://www.cynox.de/ -- Ciao, Andrea. XQhE7.152330$3d2.5361731@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... at Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142394 news:52dgutstehcrqn518oc1mjdm6tkbeqoeup@4ax.com... X Yeah !!! X Ofcourse an ASIC will cost greekly more than FPGA BUT I think it's worth it ! Veli-Pekka The Marketing Manager of the Virtual Platform(TM) OS ;-) Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142425 The specs that have been suggested here for a new, much-improved 'better-than-HP' calculator included things like a nice low-power ARM processor, lots of memory, smaler physical size ... perhaps we'd all end up with something like this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/22699.html (No, this is not intended as a serious suggestion for choosing a base for such a product - but perhaps lessons can be learned, ideas borrowed, from this device.) // Christian charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142441 Hmm, I haven't seen this before, but I can comment a bit on similarities: Pogo Virtual Platform ;-) CPU: 75 MHz ARM 1 GHz ARM RAM 16 MB 96-512 MB Interface: Stylus Keyboard MP3: Yes Yes Screen; Resol.: 320x240 320x240 Colour: Yes No (grayscale) Backl. No Yes Batterylife; On: 5-6 h 250 h Std.by: 100 h 3 years+ USD: 435 150-250 Regards Steen Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142513 Hello again.. If I read right this week, today, 9th, is the last ACO day.. isn't it? I hope that last ACO day in HP should be the first day in a new engineer handheld era and calculators. I hope from now, only good news: -Perhaps, hp calc's ROM source became GPL -Perhaps, MetaKernel sources became GPL -Perhaps, HP has new low cost linux handhelds ready to go -Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.. Some could say I am a dreamer, but I am sure I am not the only one J.Manrique CdU de la ETSIG Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142527 Add my perhaps which originates from VPN: HP58 HP58 HP58 HP58 HP58 HP58 HP58 HP58 HP58 HP58 HP58 HP58 Yes, you are in good company. No I don't mean that company (HP). I mean this company (the news group) ;-) Have a HaPpy day, Nick. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142531 If I am right, mitch davis, who co-develop Hp Comm (where is its web?), now works (after sometime working in HP ACO) in PocketPenguins: http://www.pocketpenguins.com/ Ok, thier machine is veeery expensive.. but you should look.. I have always felt good here.. Ok, I have buyed StarWars EdpI DVD, so it's going to be a long night untill tomorrow, that I have o teach some hp49 basics, in aour University Basic hp49 Usage Curse. Cheers, J.Manrique CdU de la ETSIG Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142550 message news:+WlTD7r9sJWI@opalo.etsiig.uniovi.es... Considering it weighs ONLY 1.36 kgs and costs LESS than 4000 USD, I think you should step out of your door and to the nearest mall and ask for a subnotebook. At least it has a keyboard and can run your OS of choice (instead of the useless LeOS). Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142545 Hi. Regarding the current discussion of new devices; I'll stop commenting my design now, since the hardware is close to being final. I need to worry about my family now in this christmas time, and I'm having a little child (well, not me physically ;-) in the winter/spring, so it'll be a couple of months before I can get soem real work done on this. Progress will be slow the first 6 months or so, but then I'll let you guys know what's going on. At that time, the product can probably much better handle a semi-public way of development. I'll contact those who have wanted to be a part of it and help out, when the time is right. I'll still be here, but probably not be speaking up so loudly :-) Regards Steen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142552 My congratulations!! in the charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142557 Thanks. Regards Steen Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142566 Hey! Congratulations!!! I will be dady on march as well ;)))))))))))) And I guest that everything will slow down in my life. I will get a new life 8-) In any case. I've not said it yet but I want to help (work is a better word) on anything about that device so count with me when our babies will give us time ;))) Luis. -- --------------------------------------- Luis Morales Boisset email: lboisset at arrakis.es http://www.arrakis.es/~lboisset news:o8XG7.1693$Gt.82536@news000.worldonline.dk... so the charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142613 Congratulations to you too :-) life We surely will :-) word) Sure :-) Regards Steen Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142395 news:1e2c6ff4.0111061453.2c966e26@posting.google.com... So you want to design a Jupiter A next generation of Saturn with HW multiplication, etc... Veli-Pekka Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142396 news:8jbgut8aafna0qprdhnh5jqtkg59aic5mb@4ax.com... X OK! For the third generation that is! 1) Make Saturn XP = X=10=#Ah timers the P=Power eg. new process & lower voltage 2) Make Jupiter, a HW enhanced Saturn XP 3) Go to Xscale-II for an emulated or simulated RPL-OS backwards compatible with 1) & 2) Correct? Veli-Pekka X -------- X Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142398 news:ek_F7.8759$Ip2.562383@news010.worldonline.dk... X But there is no HW floating point support (yet) :-( regards, Veli-Pekka PS: I will still bet on the XScale-50MHz as the future 3G-calc-OS running Virtual Platform Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142409 Stephane Cocquereaumont wrote: Great! Bye, Mario Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142430 On 6 Nov 2001, Stephane Cocquereaumont wrote: That's very cool!!! .vic NNTP-Posting-Host: p-726.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142467 I need to find a computer IDE program for the HP48gx that will let me write programs and debug them before downloading them to the 48gx. I don't want to do assembly language which appear to be the only type of emulators that I've found. I just want one that will let me program in the standard basic type language that is vaquely outlined in the HP manual. I have one for my TI-83 and it works great. Does anyone know where you can buy something like this for the hp48 ?? And also what exactly do the following terms represent , 1. User RPL , 2. System RPL , and 3. Flash Rom assembly language ? User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Developer-Friendly Unix APIs) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142482 Hi JR, There are several options for programming in all the available languages and you should be able to find them at www.hpcalc.org in the PC tools and/or programming sections. Heck, you can use any text editor to program in USER RPL. As for what the languages are: 1. User RPL is the highest level language available on the calc. It provides necessary argument checking anf error detection to prevent (in most cases) crashes and data loss. User RPL is just the entire collection of all the built in commands on the calc. 2. SysRPL is System RPL. It is the set of commands that the user does not have direct access to using the calculator in a normal mode. There are many more SysRPL commands available than UserRPL but most of these commands require careful use as they do not provide automatic argument checks and error handling. You can speed up programs significantly using SysRPL and in many cases it will result in smaller code size than an equivalent UserRPL code block. SysRPL requires a compiler (available in PC executable form or several on board versions like Jazz) and a table of entry points. The table merely equates the tokens used in the source code like DUP#1+ or XYGROBDISP to their address locations in the ROM. In my opinion SysRPL is the most popular of the languages used by the regulars on this group. 3. There is no Flash Rom Assembly Language as you call it but there is Assembly Language. This is the lower level of the three we are talking about. It provides virtually direct control of every aspect of the hardware. With this control, however, comes the increased risk of crashes, data corruption etc since NO error handling o or argument checking of any kind is provided. The programmer must handle all aspects of the code insuring that possible errors are handled, argments are present when needed and memory is controlled and manipulated correctly. It is not nearly as readable as higher level languages and involves direct manipulation of the chips registers, memory contents, IO buffers etc. It also requires an assembler and linker which, as with SysRPL, is also available on the computer or the calc. Other options less popular are Machine code (hex code), an old language targetted at game design (forgot the name), and probably a few other unknowns. MASD, the programming environment found in the HP49 and the HP48 version of MetaKernel provides some slick high level methods of programming in assembly. Of course the UserRPL compiler is built in and requires no third party tools to use. You can debug UserRPL on the calc or you can use Emu48 to do it all then fetch the program from the emulator to your actual calc. The possibilities are numerous. Hang around here and see. Make sure you read everything you can in the programming section of hpcalc.org. Rgds, -Al -- -Al Arduengo ------------ The only `intuitive' interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned. -- -Al Arduengo ------------ Real Programmers think better when playing Adventure or Rogue. NNTP-Posting-Host: p-797.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142505 Thanks I learned more from your reply than from all the stuff I've downloaded that seems to go under the pretense that if your downloading it then you already understand the concepts. NNTP-Posting-Host: van132574-1.gw.connect.com.au Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142506 I have avoided SysRPL because I thought for my basic needs I didn't need the added complications of compiling on the PC and learning a new language. I've just started playing with EMACS thinking it would be handy as a UserRPL editor and enviroment on the 49. I was pleasantly surprised that it makes writing SysRPL and ML programs on the 49 allmost as easy as UserRPL. Caveat is that it may be simple but with SysRPL there is a greater risk of corrupting the memory. I crashed the calc within 20 minutes of starting to play so make sure you have a backup on the PC or use EMU48 on the PC for playing. Like most HP49 software the manual is a bit confusing at first but once you start using Emacs and see how it works and how it relates to the manual it all becomes clear. It's worth loading Emacs just for it's improved CAT function and command help. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142400 news:Xns9150F3860D784vinceWURLDLINKNET@64.164.98.7... X Could I conVince you, Vince, about the benefits of a new design of the calculators OS, implemented on an Xscale CPU. I would like to call it: Virtual Platform like in, say VP-58GX (nothing to do with Vincent Poy or Veli-Pekka ;-) [VPN] Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142411 $1h1$1@news.kolumbus.fi: Not a bad idea... hehe ;) Cheers, Vince Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142414 news:Xns91521AB5887C9vinceWURLDLINKNET@64.164.98.6... And maybe even Vassilis Prevelakis vprev@vp.com.gr from http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi?read=12064 would like that name? [VPN] Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142415 news:9sb5p7$ej5$1@news.kolumbus.fi... X Paul Vollbracht paul.vollbracht@toyota.be from http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi?read=12321 might ask for a coin toss - once again !!! Will the history repeat itself !!! Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142403 news:9s99o4$g3l$1@beta.szi.fh-jena.de... For the Xscale version (third generation) OS: Virtual Platform eg. VP-58GX regards, Veli-Pekka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142382 Jonathan Busby wrote: Could you, please, give some examples how many clock cycles it takes for Saturn to execute typical commands binary commands and the size of the operand ? Jack Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142399 news:3BE89812.AB352522@home.com... operand ? http://ca-on.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/programming/cycles.zip Note the nibbling of the 64-bit accumulators during a full-width operation. Also: No HW multiply, divide, etc.. [VPN] X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142512 Hello news:9sa6bd$8gd$1@news.kolumbus.fi... the it usually takes a LOT of cycle for the Saturn to run the most simple instruction. You needs over 2000 cycles to multiply two 20 bits register. Jean-Yves Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142562 On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 11:48:26 +1100, Jean-Yves Avenard Relative to what? For most simple operations the Saturn is faster than the 68000. Can you give some examples? Uhh.. Isn't this like saying I can cut down a tree faster than you when I have a chain saw and you don't? The 68000 has H/W multiply and the Saturn doesn't. Your point is? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Remove the random permutation of HPRULES! from my e-mail address before replying. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142563 On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 22:47:20 +0100, Steen Schmidt The definition of RISC seems to change continually. It may be simple compared to other modern processors but it is loads more complex than the Saturn. Agreed. ;) Yes, I'm talking about OS redesign but... not the redesign of the entire OS :). There are only a few places than would need to be changed to see significant speed improvements. Writing an OS from scratch would be much more complicated especially if you wanted it to be of any quality - you'd have to keep yourself from reinventing the wheel and making the same mistakes all over again. OS design is a huge subfield of computer science with a history as long as general purpose computers. Look at how long it took Unix - which most other OS's strive to emulate - to get to the point it is today. I hope you're joking :). The C compiler isn't going to write the code for you. You'll still have thousands of programs whose functionality you'll have to translate from sys-rpl/ML to C. I don't see much of a difference between implementing an idea in code and translating the functionality of one piece of code by hand into another language - unless there is an almost direct correspondence between language constructs. And we know how long the former process can take. Why would we need to reverse engineer the Saturn if we were designing it from scratch? Compare the part of SASM.DOC that deals with the Saturn instruction set with say the book ARM Architecture Reference Manual . I think you'll find the latter to be about 100 times the size of the former :). And the XScale uses the V5 ISA so it can't be *less* complicated. I think the authors of the many huge books on computer architecture would disagree with you. Granted, they are easier to deal with if the instruction set is designed right but it ain't a walk in the park either. At any rate, the Saturn pales in comparison to the complexity of modern RISC processors - just judging by the XScale transistor count. Of course you're an EE... And I'm an idiot ;). ( Well, I hope that useless explanation at least helped some lurkers reading this thread ;) Please excuse my ignorance, I'm a math major not an EE, but are you talking about a controller implemented with brute force for a memory with 2 64-bit words? I don't know why you consider how big a memory controller the FPGA can hold a good metric for it's capacity but according to my calculations the controller you mention would only take something like 200 gates. Anyway, perhaps I was squeezing a bit too tight ;). An XC2S30 should solve any capacity problems. If that still seems like a small number of gates then consider these numbers. Assuming 4 transistors per gate, here are the gate counts for some comparable microprocessors : Intel 8080 : 1500 Zilog z80 : 2125 Intel 8086 : 7250 Motorola MC68000 : 17000 Intel 80286 : 32500 Intel 80386 : 68750 Porting GCC to an XScale based operating system would be relatively easy since all you'd have to do really is tweak the runtime support code and the libraries - all the OS independent stuff such as the parser and code generator code be left alone. Now, if you're talking about writing a C compiler from scratch, well that's a whole other ball game :). Two things : price and backward compatibility. The high end XScale is bound to cost more than a tiny FPGA. Also, even with the most advanced emulation techniques it would be hard to beat an upgraded Saturn. And since backward compatibility is high up on my list I would lean toward the solution that runs Saturn code faster. I disagree. In my opinion it would be *much* easier to reimplement the simple Saturn. Compiler theory is just as (or more) vast than OS theory and unless you plan on writing a compiler that generates crappy code for a simple language it would be a huge undertaking. Pipelining and all the other architectural complications of a processor like the XScale make writing a code generator that does it's job well difficult. And this is only the code generation stage. I've left out all of the other complexities that arise in parsing, type checking, intermediate code generation etc. not to mention the libraries. If you still think it is easy, then take a look at the GCC code base and consider the fact that it's been in development for 18 years (by hundreds of people). IMO the Verilog sources for a new Saturn would probably be 1/100th of that size (at least) :). Ok. But why would you need a 64-bit or even a 32-bit logical address space? Most embedded OS's don't use anything but a tiny fraction of this especially when you only have like 16 megs of memory. Maybe for fast sparse array access? :D I have to agree with that :). Regards, Jonathan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Remove the random permutation of HPRULES! from my e-mail address before replying. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142576 Oh, foo. Why don't you just get a MISC processor like the F21? (see www.ultratechnology.com). The F21 has a lot of PCish features that you wouldn't need, but it's certainly small and fast and cheap (multiple senses) and amenable to RPL. Not off-the-shelf, though. MISC is also a tad simpler than RISC =) (MISC for Minimal Instruction Set Computer, not the other MISC: Mutable Instruction Set Computer.) I have a fondness for the Saturn. It's an easy processor to get along with, and it has some very useful capabilites. Anyway, I'm not very forward-looking right now with regards to calculators. I wish you all the best with yours, though -- maybe I'll buy from you! (snip) Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142582 news:eosout060hq88b9b4cik2734ipq9gbtf46@4ax.com... X X I vote for re-scaleing the Saturn CPU without any change to logic. We get a less power-hungry Saturn with at least 10 fold speed increase. BUT This is only a temporary solution. The Virtual Platform on an XScale CPU that the Man of Steel/n is peaking about is the future where we are heading to. I takes more time to implement, but in the meanwhile we could use the new Saturn XP in a HP 50 XP calculator. Veli-Pekka Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142596 Hi, even a simple addition like 'A=A+1 A' takes 7 cycles. Raymond news:7osoutkted5698d1ici0n2lbpotqk8mdme@4ax.com... -------- Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142604 Yeah... I think Steen is tired of temporary solutions :-))) BTW, Steen, congratulations and best wishes on having a baby! :-) Hilsen, Bhuvanesh. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142605 Hi, news:662e00ed.0111101041.2af9b9d7@posting.google.com... so maybe many other things are temporary solutions, too;-))) I think it would be a good idea to have a 'Saturn' compatible CPU with more power. A temporary solution like this could last anther 5+ years. Otherwise someone would have to make another emulation layer, like Emu48 (orYorkem) maybe, to get somewhat like compatibility to the RPL kernel into the machine. It would slow down the machine in a significant way, as can be seen with Yorkem... Regards, Raymond charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142608 Manufacturing the Saturn (somehow) with a more modern process, would be number one of course. I suggest this: Someone (VPN, Mr. Busby and others ?) move the Saturn where it rightfully belong, and maybe do the OS upgrades necessary - after all, the OS may go GPL soon (?). That would probably take you alot less time than it would take me bending the XScale into shape, but still some time, since manufacturing still should be detailed. In it's first breaths, this XScale device wouldn't be more than a very fast platform with C/C++ (and all the layers from the hardware up) support, but if someone wanted, Saturn tools could be coded. That could be SysRPL/ML compilers, or a 48/49 emulator. It could be the start of VGP (Very Good Performance) performance, which is a VGT (Very Good Thing). It could also merely be a branch - a blip on the radar of civilized embedded power :-) Regards Steen charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142609 Indeed :-) Thanks! :-) I see you're learning Danish? That's really something.....;-) Regards Steen charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142611 Ok - that would simplify the process greatly. We must hope the 4x OS will go GPL soon. Yes, I'm aware of many of the pitfalls. We must strive to learn from the past, but OS design information can be hard to get to. There are still many OS'es written for the ARM family, so it wouldn't be impossible to either find one written for the XScale architecture, or enhance one to fit. Yes, but if someone made three C-libraries for UserRPL, SysRPL and ML, it would merely be a matter of recompiling the programs. Granted - UserRPL and SysRPL wouldn't be easy to do, but still only a question of time. matter in Are we? I heard only minor changes? Designing the Saturn from scratch wouldn't be any easier than making the three C-libraries I'm talking about. It's not, but still; ARM is not that difficult, and the C/C++ compiler is down already... No. The ARM/Thumb instruction set is very forgiving, but you'll still have to pay attention to the architecture when using them, or you could easily suffer a factor 10-100 in performance loss. Yes. CPU Oh, I hope not that I gave that impression :-( I definetely don't mean that, and seeing the smiley leads me to believe you do not either :-) I see a bit more to these memory controllers than that. I see much of the functionality of a common North Bridge known from a PC chipset. That would include a speculative pre-processor and a prefetch cache - remember, this device could have 512 MB or even 4 GB RAM for data storage. The XScale architecture has a bit higher gate-count than the mentioned processors. Remember that embedded CMOS curcuits (e.g. RAM) will only use 2 transistors per gate. Without revealing too much (CNDA), the cost of one XScale embedded processor is, for me, around USD 20. With emulation, yes. At first, yes. It is easy to make a sort of interpreted ARM/Thumb language, which a C/C++ compiler could translate to. No optimizations, no simpifications, just rough cut and paste through the source file. We do now have a full blown C/C++ compiler for the XScale though, so the point is moot. You're right. For the XScale device we consider a realistic memory space maximum to be at least 2 or 4 Gigs of SDRAM. Add to that 128 or 256 Megs of SRAM, and at least 128 Megs of Flash RAM. You need more than 32-bit logical addressing. If you think about the wast amounts of data tha can go through, for example, 10 FireWire ports? Or 100 Mbit ethernet? Or a PXI fiber controller? Or all of the above combined? Regards Steen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142616 Jonathan Busby wrote: He just gave you the example of much faster MC68000 operation. You seem to claim that Saturn is faster than MC68000. Would you please, give us examples, where exactly Saturn is faster. Please include data format, data size and number of cycles. Jack Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142383 Hmm... how did you guess that ;-) Why wouldn't I join? Sorry, I don't have $100,000 yet :-) Bhuvanesh. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142384 I think that full Sys-RPL support should exist, or do plan on rewriting a whole mathematical software suite for the new system? Yes, i believe the machine and it's OS should be totally new, and written for portability and high-level programming, however, i think that the mathematical part of the software should be sys-rpl as an interpreted language, much like it is now, because it would still evolve, if it hadn't reached the maximum capability out of the hardware. Steve Sousa Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142385 No, we use commas. I see... I didn't realize that. Cool! :-) Regards, Bhuvanesh. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142401 news:e726e217.0111061810.18631dd7@posting.google.com... going CAS First Emulated, later native. We can keep the emulator. 1) Saturn XP = Saturn in, say 0.25 micron process & lower voltage 2) Jupiter = greatly enhanced Saturn with 32-bit addressing, HW*/ etc. 3) XScale implementation of the Virtual Platform, runnning RPL-emulator with compiler So it be... [VPN] X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142424 but it's already available in the debug2 program... Jean-Yves news:87wv14ylr9.fsf@austin.rr.com... new (and it 150 is bit XScale 600-1200 that Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142436 As if I need another Hp calculator, but the BullS*** we get from the upper management at Hp is horrendous. At least we as a group can tell when they lie to us. Just watch for their lips to move. The following answer is pat and sounds good, but now for the reality. Look around. All the major outlet stores are clearing out inventories of their Hp stock of calculators (aside from the new junk ie 10BII) That is all I find if I find Hp. I cannot find Hp32s, 20s, or 48G's anymore. I know that a few stores still carry old stock, but Target, K-mart, Walmart, Officemax and Staples only carry the 10Bii. Therefore the message below doesn't ring all that true to me. Therefore, my query, aside from a few vendors on the WEB, where do you go to buy Hp scientific calculators. If there is no major outlet, the message above is truly BS of the first order. And since I suspected as such before I posted, I can't/won't believe much from Hp upper management until refuted and proved otherwise. I await such proof, and will gladly humble myself and apologize for my skeptism. Until then however, I say: Carly Foirna and her lacky sidekick Iain Morris are two Jerk CEO's that have contributed to Hp's withdrawal of a Market that Hp used to RULE. Poor marketing and follow the leader (Ti) mentality have put Hp in the backseat on a downhill skid that probably no one can stop. No, I don't have the answers either, but I feel that Hp's abandonment of this area will cost the company prestige and market aligience in the future. My first Hp product was an Hp15c that is still with me to this day (I used and abused this calculator for nearly 10 years, prior to that I went through a Ti every year). This calculator introduced me to a whole world of instrumentation and controls as well as Pc's and printers. oh well... I await anyone to refute my comments and negative ramblings. NNTP-Posting-Host: p-857.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142468 You can buy hp48gx's at Allen Precision Equipment in Georgia for around $150.oo . The also have cogo cards for them for competive prices. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142470 Ron Ross wrote: Oh, well... perhaps someone realized that there are horrible major mistakes in their designs and they're being replaced. Mistakes such as premature wasting rubber keys, awful and twisted painted keys, rattling keys, low quality cases, and so on. (Not to mention the documentation, of course) In few words, it's as though Casio had taken over the industrial design of HP calcs. :-) Regards, Bye. Jordi Hidalgo johil@tv3mail.com - Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142537 I find Scientific and Business calculators at Walmart, at Office Depot, at Staples, etc. What surprises me is that such places lack the 48GX or 49G. The 49G doesn't seem quite as tough as older HP calculators, does it? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142565 Hi, Just goes to show you what you get when you put a well dressed business and marketing type with built in internal plumbing in charge of a once really great instrument company. I just wonder if any of you guys have been keeping track of how much Carly has been investing in TI's calculator branch. I bet the checks go straight from TI to her numberd Swiss bank account. We're all getting butt $%^&^% by a bunch of dorks, most of whom are not smart enough to use an ENTER key. The situation makes me sick. Acme Optics NNTP-Posting-Host: p-956.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142595 Hello, I recently purchsed a 49G to replace my 48SX.. The registration card mentions downloading the Advanced User's Guide from http://www.hp.com/calculators/hp49 but I went and looked, cant' find it anywhere. Could someone please provide any links to online/downloadable manuals? Any other good things I should download while I'm at it? Thanks! -js -- Dreams don't change the world. Actions do. Johnathan Spectre - Remove NOSPAM to send me email - NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-s250-n96-as2.nerdc.ufl.edu Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142601 You'll find a lot of info at the hpcalc site. You can find all released manuals here. http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/ Take a look at the entire site. There are many useful programs you can download Hope it helps, Diego news:101120010854190961%jspectre@NOSPAMlords.com... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142607 Dear js: I am looking to buy a used 48 SX. Are you interested in selling your old one? Alan McCornack amccornack@home.com On Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:54:19 -0600, johnathan spectre MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142389 On Tue, 06 Nov 2001 23:53:32 GMT, mschaef@bermuda.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) wrote: So they can keep their highly inflated and undeserved salaries and put people like JYA and the other members of the ACO out of work. I have always wondered why company CEOS still get bonuses when the company is losing money and downsizing thousands of people. Seems like the people that do the real work are always the first fired. Pardon me I am just venting. Harold A. Climer Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy U. Tennessee at Chattanooga Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142402 Bonjour! Thank you, Jean-Yves, for making the difference: I'm still a HP calculatrice fanatic Veli-Pekka PS: Your face will never fade of our v'ger's memory... news:jhXF7.145548$g8.85582@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142406 Harold A. Climer wrote in message That's why the stock market is in trouble...Not because of the terrorist attack...Alot of companies have been running on a thin profit margin... Terrorist attack was an excuse for alot of companies...The days working for a big company are pretty much over...I read articles in the newspapers that HP and alot of big companies in Silicon Valley were having a hard time attracting people for jobs.... Jas Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142410 /(&%#!¤&% I took for real... [VPN] PS: You ASSUMEable rref-er to: ...continue as a good business for HP for a long time. BUT I'm still not laughing? news:9saran$ld0$1@web1.cup.hp.com... Calculators. in calculator Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142412 From Iain's reply: Oh, that's Great News! Aside from Vger's firmware, I don't like anything made by ACO. Well, perhaps I do like a couple of things, but I mean that the level reached at Corvallis has not been improved at all. I know they were wizards, but I'm sure it could happen again - after all, they are still alive, I hope! ;-) I hope HP can find the right place and the right people again for the real 48's successor. Please, no hurries! By the way, why has the new HP-12C version (that with one CR2032 batt) engraved the word Agilent on its CPU? Regards, Bye. Jordi Hidalgo johil@tv3mail.com - Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48 Subject: Re: You can make a difference Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:49:17 -0600 Lines: 49 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Authenticated-User: barryem Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142431 Jordi Hidalgo wrote: Well, perhaps at Corvallis sure it could I suspect that's in the natural order of things. When they designed the 48SX they were doing something new. The features came from the designer's imaginations. Probably no-one else knew eough about the possibilities to interfere. But when they were working on the 48GX the marketers and executives already had a working model and had already probably heard a million ideas and probably all had their favorites and did what they could to see that they were implemented. The designers must have had less control with that never having been stated. With the 49G they also had some TI successes to compete with and that influenced the list of features, too. Less and less control by the designers. I'm just guessing at all of this. I have no slightest idea what went on at HP. But I've led programming projects that were totally new ideas and no-one really understood the possibilities and I know how I got left alone. If I wanted a suggestion I had to ask for it. Then, doing the second version of those same projects, everyone had ideas. The users and the VPs they worked for. My boss. His boss. His secretary. They all had suggestions. Some I could ignore. Some I couldn't. The second version might have been more useful and more tailored to the user's needs, but it was always less graceful, more confused, less coherent and more trouble to maintain. It's just how things work in business. The designer has a lot more ability to express his own ideas in his own way in the first edition of something very new than at any other time. Of course business has developed a partial cure for the designer's imagination in the first edition. It's called a prototype. :) Barry -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! ==----- Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142503 Hi Scott: I think you should e-mail him again, just to ask what other location or department is going to handle calcs. I bet he chokes... Steve Sousa Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142507 I did what you suggested, Steve, and emailed him back. He replies fast! He responded only an hour or two after I sent my message. Anyway, here is his message: --Begin-- We have resources in the US and Asia that will be supporting the product line. Iain --End-- That was in response to my question about departments/locations of the calc department. I also asked a question about when/if we could expect a new calc, but (as you can see from his message) he did not answer that one. -Scott When I emailed my letter I received a response from a PR representative. Obviously I'm less important than Scott :) She did mention however (in part): Effective immediately we are consolidating our resources and transitioning the calculator business to Palo Alto and Singapore ... So at least that's a bit more specific than US and Asia :) Dennis transitioning the Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142561 On 7 Nov 2001 03:06:23 -0800, johil@tv3mail.com (Jordi Hidalgo) wrote: AFAIK The 12C no longer uses an ancient 41C type processor ( I might be thinking of the 10B ). They've replaced it with a microcontroller emulating the 12C ROM at the exact speed of the old calc as to not upset anyone :D ( LOL! ). Yes, that's right. HP actually had to slow down the processor significantly. And I thought they were just stopped, not going backwards. ;) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Remove the random permutation of HPRULES! from my e-mail address before replying. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142575 (snip) ...wow. ...so, they're very narrow in who they want to upset, yes? ...people would be upset with a faster calculator? ...why even bother changing? Are people upset with any other benefit? ...Excuse me, I think I need to lay down for a while... Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142577 news:76ea4fd3.0111092252.3be86d1c@posting.google.com... X The thing is that the beancounters (the same kind of persons that almost distroyed the HP engineering calcs) are upset if, say - calculating IRR, happens in a blink because they can't believe that the calc has done any calculations. It's a fake! It just picked up a number! I don't trust this calculator! So you see: The 12C had to made idiot-proof :-D And this is a true story! Sad, yes! But True! AND That's what marketing research does to your computing devices... :-( Veli-Pekka charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142612 That's why Micro$ has made Windoze that way? To not make these people doubt the PC was doing anything whilke running their OS's? ;-) Regards Steen NNTP-Posting-Host: van132574-1.gw.connect.com.au Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142386 As there is so much talk at the moment about new directions I'd like to ask: Just what is the perfect calculator each of us expects? If somebody uses this for market research then great I'll have a replacement for my 49 in a few years. If you assume it's going to be 2-3 years before a new calculator gets to the market we can assume that the PDA's will by then be fully functional windows devices. You'll able to run apps lick Mathcad, Maple etc with the only restrictions being screen real estate and hardware interface (touch screen limited keys. Any new calculator would have to compete with these and be sufficiently different in functionality to compete. So here is my stab at the basics: Size: Pocketable, smaller than HP49, size of HP42 if possible. The 48/49's are to big to be carried anywhere in your pocket. Whats acchievable will depend on interface and screen. One option could be pull out or flip out screen that retracted displays single line of result like a cheap calculator. Power: Uses standard batteries say 2xAAA. Batteries life of 2 months minimum. Screen: HP49 seems reasonable but higher resolution. 2 colour to keep cost and power down. User Interface: Has to use a keyboard for rapid input of calcs. RPN of course but Algebraic will be needed since RPN will have even less of a profile than now. 48 and 49 seem to have it about right for an advanced calculator. You can't get away from the need for a numeric keypad plus extra's for command functions, advanced features and menu. Touch screen just won't cut it as I don't want to stop to pull out a stylus in the middle of a calc. Memory: 1.5 Mb in the 49 seems to be heaps. With memory so cheap just give it access to memory flash cards or a heap of internal memory. CPU and OS Can't comment except it should be capable of emulating the HP48/49 functionality with improved speed. A dream would be to have the capability to run the same apps as your Desktop unit but the size and display of a calculator unit that I'm thinking of would make interacting with an App thats designed for a 15 and a mouse very arkward. Cost of calculator would be much greater. External I/O USB would seem to be the most common cable connection with plenty of speed for a calculator. Some kind of cable-less connection would be nice. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142397 news:9sa5me$f32$1@merki.connect.com.au... X to be X 2*AA, can be operated on NiMH cells, too. [VPN] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142404 Maybe a shrunken Xpander? Raymond Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48 Subject: Re: Your perfect Calculator expectations Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 11:23:53 -0600 Lines: 55 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Authenticated-User: barryem Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142432 Stephen wrote: gets to the functional windows the only (touch screen these and be I have Derive, Mathcad and Matlab for my HP 200lx. The version of Derive I have was designed with the lx in mind. I'm not sure about the others but they work just fine. I don't have any need for these and my math is limited so I can't judge how they compare to the HP49. But they are certainly available in an HP49 size package with a screen about 3 times the size of the 49 screen and a QWERTY keyboard with a numeric keypad. (too small for touch typing). And good old HP sturdiness and reliability. The 200lx is almost exactly the same size as the 49G. It will fit (snugly) in the HP48 soft case. It's a PC that uses 2 AA batteries and gets about 40 hours from them and weighs 11 ounces including batteries. Rechargebles are fine. There is a recharger built in. It only knows how to charge standard Nicads but there is free software downloadble to control the charging in various ways. It can recharge the 1600 mah NIMH just fine. It also has Lotus 123 version 2.4 (complete) in rom, along with a lot of PDA apps, more powerful ones than are available in newer PDAs. Dos 5.0 is in ROM. Also Quicken, CC:Mail and an HP bussiness calculator (which talks to Lotus). Several full sets of internet software are available. Some free, some not. Several cards for wireless access are avaliable, as are modem cards. It has infra-red. A group of users are now looking into the possibity of Bluetooth. The power supplied to the PCMCIA port is limited so this may or may not work. With a Parallel port PCMCIA card it works fine with a Zip drive. It also runs Microsoft Flight Simulator 4.0, Word Perfect 5.1, dBase 3+, Paradox, most older compilers of most languages and a world of commercial games. All that and it fit's in my pocket. It also has a PCMCIA slot. I have a 160 meg flash card. It's my A: drive. They don't make them anymore but they're available all over the place and they supply seems to be increasing as time goes by. Barry -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! ==----- Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142437 it sounds great! now, if i could put my maple7 (o mathematica) in it... may be, the next HP49G will come with a crusoe chip :) oh yeah, and running linux too BTW: HP49G still rules!!!!!!!!! when you take the thought of others, reality becomes ready made O. y Gasset charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142438 to I can easily fit a HP49G in the pocket inside my jacket. be And it'll be cheap quality too. Fold lines destroy cables. Duracell AA MN1500 are 2450 mAh, so two months on two of these will allow your device to use 116 mW @ 5 volts (continous use; 106 hours a month). Built-in Lithium Ion will be better though, both for the environment and for your wallet. power It'll have to be a little larger, so you won't have to use a magnifying glass to see on it. Else you could use a video camera display - 2 & maybe 400x300 pixels. Regards Steen charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142439 Yes, but with fewer mAh's than NiCd. Lithium Ion does have more advantages too. Regards Steen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142454 Hi, news:8ZfG7.67$TW2.27746@news010.worldonline.dk... You seem to have big pockets;-) A 15C or 42S has the maximum weight I want to carry, aside from their nicer form factor. result Maybe. But the 28 (Clamshell) series use kind of flip where only a minimum of torsion happens to the contact stripe. Never heard of an 28 with bad left-hand keyboard;-) Hmm...do we end up with kinda Turbo-28SX? Regards, Raymond NNTP-Posting-Host: van132574-1.gw.connect.com.au Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142458 The weather in Oz is to good to be wearing jackets. Even in winter only wear them on bad days. :) I want something for a shirt pocket, HP49 is to big. Be thankfull I haven't asked for a Calc suitable for the back pocket of pants when wearing a T-shirt, flexible so you can sit on it. I'm looking for a convenient advaced calculator not a PDA with calculator functions. news:8ZfG7.67$TW2.27746@news010.worldonline.dk... are result for MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142459 1. I want a calculator that executes internal instructions as fact as compiled code on a Pentium III and executed user programs at least as fast ab VB p-code. 2. I want the calculator to be able to be programmed with languages from: HP-67 HP-41 HP-48 HP-49 and VB i.e. backward compatible calculator. 3. It needs to hold at least 1 gig of ram and be able to be attached to a portable IDE hard drive and a CD-ROM 4. 256 color screen, minimum res 1024x768 5. Intelligent, LCD augmented keyboard. 6. Open source OS 7. Runs 10 hours without back lite on. 8. The size of an HP-49 when closed but opens book style like an HP-28S 9. Has parallel, serial and USB ports and syncs to PCs, Macs and Linux boxes. 10. High quality parts, like the keyboard switches on my HP 67. 11. Flashable ROM and running an upgradable hardware chip. 12. 6 AA lithium batteries or rechargable nickle metal hydrid batteries as used in the RC plane world. All other features are open to negotiation. :-) Jim Klein X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142460 -- Thierry Morissette tmorissette@hotmail.com r2ujut8do3175i6v3ps77jbbgdvscjmuue@4ax.com... Good start, but can it be done? I would be satisfied with a 41/49 combination. There are 41 functionalities that SHOULD be implemented (stopwatch, ASCII files, and then some). This is beginning to sound more and more like an HP-41 with HP-IL ... Why the color? I'm still trying to think of an use for color on a calculator (Maybe negative numbers in red?) Could you elaborate (a little drawing wouldn't hurt)? Dangerous! This might mean a different calc for everybody, and we might not be able to share programs. 1 gig or RAM, 256 colors, minimum 1024*768, as fast as a Pentium III, and lasting 10 hours with the backlight on? The calc may be portable, but the battery sure won't! OK ... I believe you can have 8. or 9., but not both! I'm with you on that one! That too! How about both, just like the 41? Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142476 You mean that the 48/49 don't have ASCII files capabilities? Is it better for you to manually set pointers and get records instead of just using a string? (Which can be used as an ascii file much easier?) HP-IL is OK, but I don't mind if it is USB or something else. I think it is the availability of many devices that makes HP-IL so attractive. What if we had USB or simple serial devices? Nop! Graph many curves with different colors. Very good when graphing 10 curves simoultaneously. He he, so we would be asked if we have a driving licence for a track, when we want to buy the next calc. ;-) Yummy, yummy :-) Sign me on the club !!! Yeah! Greetings, Nick. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142481 Sorry, I meant to say 10 hours with the back lite off :-) Jim NNTP-Posting-Host: ozma.smith-house.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142484 Acme Optics wrote: Are YOU the guys who sold that giant magnifying glass to the coyote once? =) -- .-. .-. .---. .---. .-..-. | Wild Open Source Inc. `----'`-^-'`-'`-'`-'`-' `-' | little more commonplace. home: www.smith-house.org | work: www.wildopensource.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142487 We're still selling them. X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142497 -- Thierry Morissette tmorissette@hotmail.com news: cd9ca36b.0111080547.3af586db@posting.google.com... news: functionalities It has ASCII capabilities, and it would be possible (and has probably been done many times) to emulate the 41 behaviour in that matter. But why not as a part of the OS? I had, in that glorious time, created a small program (120 BYTES) to print a justified list of names and phone numbers that I could distribute to members of my congregation. They loved to have it in such a small, practical size, and I did not have to justify each line: the program did it itself, and it was FAST! For that kind of simple record-keeping (it was not my only use of it, just the most useful of all), the 41 was number one! Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142501 I usually carry mine in my left-forward pants pocket, upside-down so to lessen exposure of the serial socket -- this works in every pair of pants that I own, including my NJROTC uniform. I don't think I'm large enough to make effects here =) This porting of the calculator seems to work well; I take it everywhere without problems. (snip my snide remark about easily-broken screens. sorry) Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142517 *Oh boy!* As fast as *VB p-code*? That's fantastic. I'm wetting myself. In multiple senses! I prefer UserRPL, SysRPL, ML, and maybe a Forth built in ML and integrated nicely with RPL. Your listing of various calculators is silly -- do you mean UserRPL or SysRPL? The differences between these in the 48 and the 49 are small. Use can use an emulator off of hpcalc.org for the HP41 code. VB? What, is that the only language you know? *Oh boy.* That's what I want! A calculator that keeps all the bugs of previous calculators instead of being optimized for what it does! I want a calculator with all kinds of complexities relating to handling all these different modes! (This is all sarcasm.) A gig of RAM? What are you going to use that for? I don't even have a computer with that much. An IDE drive? How about SCSI? CD-ROM? Look -- there are already machines that fit your qualifications; they're called Horribly Expensive Laptops, but I wouldn't lay one on your lap for too long. How big is this screen going to be, with such resolution? None of *my* calculations need that much resolution or that much color. Have you seen the stuff they're doing with greyscale nowadays? It's awesome. Once again, I think you can get laptops with such features. The HP48G, at least, has had this for years now. Hopefully, the 49G will have this soon. *10 HOURS*? *TEN*? How about 172,800 hours on average? And it'll have a much weaker structure, too. Are you going to throw a qwerty keyboard in? How about firewire? How about one port and a bunch of transducers like CISCO routers have? Please describe these; I haven't heard of them. (no comment) And you'll get a whole ten hours out of them! Thank you, Jim, I've always thought that my three AAAs were far too expensive and difficult to find. I was jealous of those TI-92 people and their four-AA needs, but soon I'll feel better! My favorite feature is the body-integrated wristcalc, that runs off bioelectric power. Another is the mindcalc, which is just a P-MEME downloaded into your brain and supported by your implant's CPU. Both very useful, long-living, extendable, and programmable. Funny though, that even as I save my money for these beautiful certainties, I spend time to mock your Horribly Expensive Laptop. (and how about windows on 'em, too, so we regularly get perceptible CPU speeds of 0MHz to 20Mhz?) Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142523 You are right. *Was* number one. The same can be achieved much easier with lists of strings or even only with strings on the 49. With all the string and list manipulating capabilities of the 49, this is much easier to do now. I don't see what advantage it has to have such an out of date editor when you just can put a huge string on the stack, press down arrow and start the superb editor of the 49. Or just put it on the stack and search or replace what you like programatically. I still like the 41 so much that I recently bought one. :-) But to say that the 49 lacks such text editing capabilities is (for me) not so much an issue of real capabilities but an issue of preferences. Some people like to manually size files and set pointers in order to access contents. I like more the free approach of the 49. No pointers no file sizes, just type it as you like and store it where you like. Greetings, Nick. P.S. To be honest: I still like the 41 like hell! (Oops, VPN would say like heaven. So be it like heaven! :-) ) Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142529 this is an idea of a very portable PC (calculator) it would look like this: http://www.fluke.com/products/home.asp?SID=14&AGID=6&PID=21220 but with a full keyboard (HP keys) and a built in mouse. for something smaller, cheaper and powerfull, then you will have to wait for the 'sems' memory to come out (4 years?). with todays tools it would be possible to do it. it could be called LAB-PC :) says... charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142535 I'm down to what looks like 4 displays, ranging from 192*128 to 320*240. All four are FSTN, has some sort of EL back light and are positive transflective. We'll have to see about that. It'll currently do 40 hours with backlight on, and around 200 with it off. That is longer than my HP49G is lasting on one set of 3*AAA's! The EL backlight should only be used when it it dark since its life time is only around 5000 hours. That shouldn't be a problem, when we're using an FSTN display (pitch black on paper white w/o backlight). You could sync with a FireWire port too - it's just a matter of PC software. Since I wouldn't be using it as a PDA, I will probably not make such synchronization software - you could if you would. It *will* be high quality - count on it. Until now I have only chosen the highest quality components, and the price tag seems to hold. Can you make anything today without it? Do you realize how much NiCd AA's weigh? We'll use rechargable LiOn. The XScale can now be programmed in C/C++, so that is not a problem anymore. Regards Steen charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142538 That's exactly what I'm talking about - it should just be a good deal slimmer from the waist down, and the oscilloscope would just be one of many loaded applications. What's 200 MHz bandwidth though? ;-) Oh, no built-in mouse, but RS232 & USB would serve as an external mouse port. for the possible to Why wait? It won't be many months before we have something much more powerful. It'll be a little longer before the software is ready though. Or it could be called VP-58GX ;-) Regards Steen Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142541 this is easy to implement using ready made parts (in modules). the hard part is how to come up with the case. the following is modificable start: it would be a good idea to make it very simple (the first model) using only basic parts. the concept would be this: use regular batteries (like a radio), easy to take apart (to upgrade future hardware), it should be very tough (unbreakable). we need the following: 1-first find out the motherboard with the CPU (we should go for the cheapest one - prototype, small), use a notebook hard drive 2- determine the power usage (batteries) 3- find a cheap($) display 4- find a ready-made keyboard 5- last, manufacture the case 5- put together all parts should assemble easily, and the case should be heavy-duty (rubber boot around?) this should be very easy, since all parts are PC compatible. but how to go about the case? ** the case could be made using aircraft aluminum (in a metal shop, i have access to one), this would make it very strong and cheap, and doesn't require much effort. i already have a spare notebook hard drive, where can i get a good and small quality keyboard (stress in this point)? does HP sell spare parts? i could built mine over here and you could built yours over there. will see which one looks better ;) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142543 Hi, rcobo@eng.morgan.edu wrote: Imagine if Fluke started making calculators... maybe we'd have another high-quality calculator to look forward to. -- Aaron charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142544 Hi. No pun intended - I'll just add my comments: part is Easy is a bit much, isn't it? only radio), Radio batteries (consumer goods) are very heavy and inefficient (W/kg). They are much too large for a compact device. You cannot make anything unbreakable - if students would use it as a calculator, it couldn't look like an industrial appliance either. It should be robust, but you needn't be able to play football with it. If you look at http://www.pocketpenguins.com/ , is that hat you suggest? A student calc at the cheap price of USD 3500 :-) It has a magnesium casing, but what if it is dropped on the display? In my opinion it should be rugged yet light and handy. That makes it alot less likely to drop it too. cheapest one Prototype and cheapest doesn't go along. You can't mass produce a prototype, and that's what it takes to make it cheap. Which prototype architecture would you suggest by the way? An operating notebook harddrive couldn't handle a warm breath before it's broken. A solid state drive is the only usable storage space in a rugged portable device. It's much much cheaper and power efficient too. The power consumption, with Default CPU and notebook drive, would be something like 25 W - let's say you had a 5 Ah 3.7V battery (which needs of course to be rechargable), it would last you 44 minutes and change. I'm looking for 250-300 hours continous usage. Cheap, good quality and high resolution doesn't go well together. Neither does inexpensive and rugged. A good quality display cost USD 25-50, and deserves good quality power circuitry. Please show me a ready made keyboard that is usable in this application? Just manufacture the case? Sorry, not to sound too pessimistic, but if you don't want to use a standard RAL 7035, IP52 ABS box, at least a little design will be involved. If you want someone to produce a new case of some sort, detailed manufacturing instructions as well as test plans, quality- and finish instructions and many other documents need to be detailed. (rubber boot Which makes it even heavier. Easy assembly will do, but people should have a hard time getting into the device. PC items are expensive, heavy, flaky, big, power hungry and of very poor quality. Can't use 'em for a high spec device. require Aircraft aluminium has several disadvantages to special (inexpensive) plastics - it corodes when not taken good care of (students don't do that), it's heavy, it's very expensive, it's expensive to machine into its final shape, it dents when dropped, it's difficult to change after manufacturing, you need all sorts of fiitings (for example washers - you can merely cut locking grooves into plastics) aso.... see Let's do that ;-) Regards Steen Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142574 hi there, this is what i am talking about: http://www.winsystems.com/products/sbcs/pcm586.htm 100% PC-compatible two com ports, one lpt (perfect for a lab)!!! low power ( 5 volts) runs Linux, Windows 98,95,3.1,CE,NT, QNX, ROM-DOS, ans MS DOS. it is only 3.6 x 3.8 it can be used without hard drive cake? Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142579 news:cd9ca36b.0111090327.342fdde8@posting.google.com... X Thank's Nick ! Veli-Pekka PS: A few more keywords will make the 49G even better in ASCII=string handling.. charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142587 Hi. The cost is around USD 400, and that's without SRAM, display, housing/keyboard and powersupply. Pretty expensive - the performance is also much much lower than the device I'm talking about. Yes, and it's PC/104, which means it's an ISA bus device. That's not high bandwidth. I don't see any high-speed external interfaces either? Yes, and at 1.2 Amps! That's 6 W power consumption - how long would that last on a 5 Ah 3.7 V battery? 185 minutes. That's not much, is it? How would you stuff Win95/98/NT on a 72 Meg Flash chip? And what about the weight when the peripherals are added? An AT PC keyboard is pretty heavy... Again - would that be feasible? No dice :-) Regards Steen Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142589 news:v47H7.2722$Gt.143359@news000.worldonline.dk... X keyboard How about the HP-200LX size? 200LX's keyboard fits in the numeric keyboard and the keytops could read: [SIN] [COS] [TAN] [ 1/X ] [ Y^X ] [SWAP]... with an additional QWERTY keyboard overlay you could change it into a more computer-like device AND Instead of a single PC-card, I'd prefer 4 Compact Flash slots. my 3_cEuro [VPN] PS: a Vertical Pocket model would be of interest, too. charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142598 and Did Bill Hewlett and David Packard not use alot of resources when they started HP? It takes alot of resources to start up a company, but that's what I've wanted to do, I just needed an idea. I've got one now. That's better :-) Regards Steen charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142599 If you avoid the folding design, you'd still have a vertical device. Me too ;-) I think that will be the first choice for me - I just love the way the '49 works... Regards Steen