A136 ==== >Anyway, I don't think I'll be keeping Derive. It is nice in some >ways, quite easy to use and all, but it feels like a TI... if you >know what I mean. The Problem is, that DERIVE _is_ a TI, since TI has taken over the manufacturer of DERIVE, SoftWarehouse Hawaii, some years ago. Volker ==== > Then i tried this calculation. 9^(9^9), but i get an integer overflow. 9^(9^9) would have over 369 million decimal digits. Where do you think your HP 49G will find the memory required to store and display that? ==== My first UserRPL program (which I'm going to post here for your kind >comments later :) tries to fill a result matrix on its run. >The problem is that I would like the first column of the matrix >contain the descriptions of the rows, like: [ [ 'Observations' 19.3456 23.4566 45.67 ] > [ 'Refraction ' 0.0039 0.0039 0.0039] ] (so that the results matrix could be transferred to a PC, and then get >pretty-printed somehow, with decriptive comments). Unfortunately, it seems like both 49g and 48gx don't allow strings >being matrix cell's contents. Is there any way to work around this? Tag the numbers in the first column instead? Enter: :Observations:19.3456 23.4566 45.67 :Refraction: 0.0039 0.0039 0.0039 {2 3} ->ARRY to get: [ [ :Observations:19.3456 23.4566 45.67 ] [ :Refraction: 0.0039 0.0039 0.0039] ] You'll lose the tags as soon as the values are manipulated though but the technique is useful if you have a progrm that creates the matrix and can simply do an ARRY-> command, tag the first values and -ARRy back again. -- ==== > How to write the [user] programs on a PC (notepad?) Notepad (using plain text) will do just fine; it's all I've ever used, although plenty of higher-tech, PC-dependent development environments (with some learning curve) also exist. If you type the following header on the first line, it will set the calculator modes automatically if you later actually download the program file using Kermit: %%HP: T(3)F(.); All special characters may be represented (and posted here) in plain ascii text. For example, you recognize at once that << >> means a pair of program delimiters; see the link below for all the rest. > and then transfer them to the 49G ... Pick a PC transfer program (anything from MS-DOS Kermit to the latest calculator communication package), start Kermit receive (or Kermit Server) on one, then send (or get) stuff from the other. You could leave your calc in Kermit server mode all the while that you initiate transfers from the PC (this is even required by the latest 49G PC GUI-based comm program), or you could use the menu keys in the 49G Filer to send things and receive things individually, at any time you want to transfer something. Actually, there is also a splendid PC tool for trying out the programs on a PC first; this tool can also send the finished, tested programs directly to your calculator, and at the same time it can serve as a complete backup of your calculator (if not a substitute for it, whenever your PC is at hand). This marvelous thing is called an emulator; it *is* your calc (or a second, free calculator), but running on your PC, and files can be zapped between these two calculators as simply as kids do it in school. Get a whole lot more info along these lines from: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3DA3B4DB.64FEAB5D%40miu.edu [r->] [OFF] . ==== > And does [using TEVAL] take display time into account? The screen is actually redrawn only after TEVAL exits back to the eternal system outer loop where screen display actually occurs, so TEVAL does not, in general, time the normal final updating of the display, although any waiting for user keypresses will of course run up the clock, just as does a taxi meter while the vehicle is stuck in traffic :) If you were to type ahead to keep the kestroke buffer from emptying, the screen would not even be redrawn at all, so there is something to be said for considering that display redrawing is done in free time, not in working time (this will of course be objected to by the blue-collar internal routines of the OS, once they get unionized :) By the way, TEVAL also times its own contribution to using up time while timing everything else, just like an hourly worker who clocks in just before starting the day by taking a magazine into the bathroom :) Say, am I getting paid for my time spent writing this post? If so, it's a useful demonstration of the quantum mechanical assertion that measurements are affected just by taking them. [r->] [OFF] . ==== Another long string (or any object) viewer: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3D6B55BA.476C4207%40miu.edu Although it's a longer program (mostly UserRPL, which annoys WR :) it has some advantages, in that it doesn't copy the string, so you can display a string which even already almost fills memory; it also starts displaying immediately, no matter how large the string, and it also displays non-strings, by virtue of automatic decompilation. This was actually my first HP48 series program, although full screen and scroll-back were added much later. [r->] [OFF] . ==== > Where on the web can I find the plug-in ROM and RAM cartridges > for my 48GX? You mean RAM cards (and/or application cards). The following chart is out of date, but some of the vendors (and some stock) still exist: http://www.hpcalc.org/buying.php RAM cards for the PC emulator are still plentiful, however :) [r->] [OFF] . ==== > Another long string (or any object) viewer: > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3D6B55BA.476C4207%40miu.edu > Although it's a longer program (mostly UserRPL, which annoys WR :) That's not true :-) I like UsrRPL. I carefully studied some of your programs and those of JKH before I dared to post here. And COMPOSE was entirely programmed in UsrRPL before Raymond started to translate it into SysRPL. Ask him, 5000 bytes UsrRPL :-) I remember that JKH often underlined how important it may be to avoid local variables to fasten the program. I always tried to find out who are the most experienced experts, looked with deep respect on these (one of these are you) and only then tried to find my own way. There are others who believe that the art of programming was put them into the cradle. Maybe I'm a bit old-fashioned, but this was my way... - Wolfgang ==== I dont know what is your school level but, if I remember correctly, I learned LOG and similar functions in my first secondary school years (it was called classical course around here)when I was around 12 years old. Dont be ashamed to ask what migth be seen as dumb questions. I remember receiving a slide rule as a gift when I was 12 year old. I asked my father what were those SIN, COS and TAN functions on it. He tried to explain what they could be used for. It was only later in my secondary course (around 12 grades) that I understood these. So, back to your question. The base 10 logarithm is the number you must raise 10 to get the argument of the LOG function. For example: LOG(10) = 1, that is 10 raised to the power 1 gives...10 (of course) LOG(100) = 2, that is 10 raised to the power 2 gives 100 LOG(1000000) = 6 that is 10 raised to the power 6 gives 1000000 Observe that the answer to the LOG function is also the number of zero in each argument. LOG(2) = 0.3010299956... So 10 raised to the power 0.3010299956... will gives 2. LOG(769) = 2.8859... So 10 raised to the power 2.8859... will give 769 If you truncate the above answers and add 1 you get the number of digits of the argument. Truncate means keep only the integer part (before the decimal). In reality you get the order of magnitude of the number (or the number of digits before the decimal). The total number of digits can be infinite like in PI or square root of 2, etc. LOG(SQRT(2)) = LOG(1.4142...) = 0.1505 In the above example you get, for each argument, the following: Argument LOG After truncating Nb of digits of the argument 10 1 1 2 100 2 2 3 1000000 6 6 7 2 0.3010... 0 1 769 2.8859... 2 3 1.4142... 0.1505... 0 1 I hope that this is helping a bit some newcomers to the wonderfull world of maths. Jean Lemire fron Montreal, Canada ==== Anthony asked: > any disassembler run in Windows for user RPL? Emu48: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/pc/emulators http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/pc/emulators [r->] [OFF] . ==== I just can't find a download site for the ROM version 1.19-7. michi_frey @ yahoo.com. Michael ==== Do you mean the ROM 1.19-7 beta beta which Avenard has not yet released due to fact that he no longer works for HP BUT the good news are that at sometime this year and the new ROM can be released. This may be in the summer. Avenard is the only one to give *exact* answer. > I just can't find a download site for the ROM version 1.19-7. > michi_frey @ yahoo.com. Michael ==== First I think the 49G pocket guide is very useful, so I downloaded it from http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/49g_pg.zip and I use it on my computer. The problem is that itÇs more convenient in physical form and it is around 80-pages long and I think it is in the same format as the real pocket guide, which is much smaller than A4. That becomes a problem when I want to print it out on A4-letter-format. I donÇt have the pocket guide, so I hope someone knows either how to make e.g. 3 or 4 pocket-guide-pages fit on 1 A4 sheet, so that I can print it out on my school in perhaps 30-pages. The price for thatÇll be around 3 US$ compared to the price for 80 pages that costs around 7 US$. The price isnÇt really important, but the small format is a problem to me. IÇve tried google-groups, but it seems like thereÇs no solution to the above mentioned problem (as I see it). The next thing is perhaps more fun for the mathematical interested ones: IÇm trying to solve this on my HP49G (complex mode on): (z+i)/(z-i) = i/(4-i) What is the best way to get to this solution: 2/5 - 4/5*i ? I want to use only the calc and I want to see the steps from the beginning to the result, like you do it on paper to an examination (so that youÇre proving that you understand it). I canÇt figure it out. Hope someone thatÇs more clever than me can :-) provide a solution. IÇve tried making this first: (z+i)*(4-i) = (z-i)*i DonÇt know if thatÇs a help? I canÇt make the zÇs (and z*iÇs) disappear. Looking forward to hearing from some of you! Martin J. ==== > on unices it's possible to convert the .pdf file to a postscript file > (ie. with ps2pdf) and then use some postscript utils to fit N-pages to > a single a4 page (ie. with a2ps). oops, that should read pdf2ps :) -- fuf ==== on unices it's possible to convert the .pdf file to a postscript file (ie. with ps2pdf) and then use some postscript utils to fit N-pages to a single a4 page (ie. with a2ps). if you're on windoze or mac, i don't know if there are any such so decode it first!), and i can do it for you and sent the result back to you. > > First I think the 49G pocket guide is very useful, so I downloaded it from > http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/49g_pg.zip and I use it on my computer. > The problem is that it?s more convenient in physical form and it is around > 80-pages long and I think it is in the same format as the real pocket > guide, which is much smaller than A4. That becomes a problem when I want to > print it out on A4-letter-format. > > I don?t have the pocket guide, so I hope someone knows either how to make > e.g. 3 or 4 pocket-guide-pages fit on 1 A4 sheet, so that I can print it out > on my school in perhaps 30-pages. The price for that?ll be around 3 US$ > compared to the price for 80 pages that costs around 7 US$. The price isn?t > really important, but the small format is a problem to me. I?ve tried > google-groups, but it seems like there?s no solution to the above mentioned > problem (as I see it). -- fuf ==== This is a question to those having a particular deep insight in the OS of the 48/49 like Jonathan, Werner, Raymond and perhaps some others. Let the program :: CK1&Dispatch BINT 31 #>CHR ; be called B2C. It transforms a single bint or a nonempty list of bints into a character or a list of characters, resp, checking also whether a list contains indeed only bints and nothing else. The following program will be called $~BL. It toggles a list of bints with a string of characters which correspond to the bints. This program is useful because it compresses a very long bint-list into a string of half of the size. Used, e.g., in programming the well-known tool ACC which draws a nice clock face with all its little numbers and which updates every second. $~BL uses Jurjen's trick, the most dirty and efficient return stack trick I ever seen: :: CH1N0LASTWD DUPTYPECSTR? MOTcase :: ID B2C >R NULL$ BEGIN RSWAP ticR NOTcase COLA_EVAL RSWAP >T$ AGAIN ; DUPLEN$ #1+_ONE_DO DUPINDEX@ SUB$1# SWAPLOOP LEN$ {}N ; Line 4 runs phantastically fast. The problem is, if the occurring name ID B2C is replaced by its program, the dispatching doesn't anymore work on a list of bints. Who knows why and how to fix this phenomenum? Hope on an answer, Wolfgang ==== > which Avenard has not yet released > due to fact that he no longer works for HP > BUT > the good news are that at sometime this year > and the new ROM can be released. Are you certain the GPL cover the complete ROM? I'm not. ==== I'm in need of a new cable for my 48SX.....any help locating one would be appreciated. -- Dan Hosek (remove 'remove' to reach me direct) ==== Does anyone have an idea of the best place to buy a 48GX just west of London (Or even in London)? The only one I've found so far (Which was by ringing HP) is Research Microsystems, whose website doesn't work, but they're quoting #135.83 stg for it (A bit pricey considering I saw it for about the same in US$ over xmas.. (I know. I should have bought one then). What price are others in the UK paying for a 48GX? -- I enjoy every minute of it... | | http://www.travellingkiwi.com/ | ==== Does anyone know if the emu48ce.exe will work on the Toshiba e740? I tries and it dodn't seem to do much > > > kruno, > > I have an IPAQ 3970 and run both a HP48 and HP49 emulator on the > > IPAQ. It runs at the same speed as a normal HP48/HP49. It is an exact > > reproduction has replaced my use of the actual calcs. Download the > > following files: > > http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/pc/emulators/emu48ce.exe > > http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/pc/emulators/emu-ppc48-49.zip > > Install emu48ce.exe. > > Copy the KML scripts and BMP files from emu-ppc48-49.zip to the > > emu48ce directory. When starting emu48ce you can now select the > > ppc48/49 kml scripts. > > Murray. > > murrayrGREEN@hp.YELLOWcom > >> Does anyone know how emu48ce works with PDA's based on 400Mhz Intel > >> Xscale processor (iPaq 3970, Siemens Loox 600) with Pocket PC 2002 > >> OS? Can I use and store data, software (found at hpcalc.org) and > >> work with it like on real > >> HP48/49 calculator? ==== About the ROM 1.19-7 1.- When you simplify an equation or you want to solve an equation system you are asked for RAD modes. Could I change solving equations or anything in deegres or gradians modes on new ROM by flags f.e.? 2.- Y <--> X INVERS FUNCTIONS. There will be any command to exchange Y with X in functions? It will bo soooooo usefull for somethings. And to graph them of course. MKISON are not an intuitive command. 3.- OLD MENUS LIKE 30 WILL DISAPPEAR?. ITS QUICKLY TO USE THAN EQUATION SOLVE, with R-Shift-7-1, (you waste a lot of time move the cursor to enter a value of a variable). THERE WILL ADD AN OPTION TO DELETE ALL VARIABLE AFTER USE IT? 4.- SYNTAX COMMANDS. On HP-39 there are a command SYNTAX than explains the syntax of a command. There will be on new ROM? HP49 has a lot of commands and when I want to use a command I do not remember If I must put the varible before or after the equation, or anything like this... 5.- Where say FULL TRANSLATION TO SPANISH AND FRENCH means FULL. AT HELP COMMAND TO? 6.- ISOL COMMAND. Why I can't isolate the R or f variable on this equation. VDmin=sqr(8*R*f). HP shows ISOL Error - n.bc 56874 no solution found I think the solution is R=((VDmin)^2/(8*f)). 7.- Is The ROM totally finished? BYE. ==== > > Does anyone have an idea of the best place to buy a 48GX just west of > London (Or even in London)? The only one I've found so far (Which was by > ringing HP) is Research Microsystems, whose website doesn't work, but > they're quoting #135.83 stg for it (A bit pricey considering I saw it > for about the same in US$ over xmas.. (I know. I should have bought one > then). > > What price are others in the UK paying for a 48GX? > I bought mine from W F Sleath who are in London. Can't remember the price, but good service. -- Jim Backus OS/2 user bona fide replies to jimb(at)jita(dot)demon(dot)co(dot)uk http://www.jita.demon.co.uk ==== > Does anyone have an idea of the best place to buy a 48GX just west > of London (Or even in London)? http://www.wfsleath.co.uk/d-commerce/hpscientific.html Tho' you'll see the prices are very similiar. -- sq ==== Only thing I can see on screen is No System and a list of options. Can someone help me how to restore my calculator. It seems that I've pressed the wrong button and erased everything on my calc. Really don't know how it happened. Blas ==== > > which Avenard has not yet released > > due to fact that he no longer works for HP > > BUT > > the good news are that at sometime this year > > and the new ROM can be released. > > Are you certain the GPL cover the complete ROM? I'm not. > It probably doesn't, since some of the ROM is copyrighted and owned by HP. -- Bhuvanesh ==== Hallo, ich suche ein Netzteil f.9fr den HP Infrarotdrucker. Kann man ein Universal Netzteil mit 9 V verwenden? Das Original Netzteil hat wohl 8,5 V. Wo liegt bei dem Stecher der Plus Pol - innen oder au¤en? Wer kann hier schnell helfen? Vielen Dank schon im voraus. ==== Hallo, Sekund.8ar 9V WECHSELSPANNUNG ! 13,5 VA Also: Augen auf beim Netzteilkauf;-) Raymond eae1 schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Hallo, ich suche ein Netzteil f.9fr den HP Infrarotdrucker. Kann man ein > Universal Netzteil mit 9 V verwenden? Das Original Netzteil hat wohl 8,5 V. Wo liegt bei dem Stecher der Plus Pol - innen oder au¤en? Wer kann hier schnell helfen? Vielen Dank schon im voraus. ==== > > >>Does anyone have an idea of the best place to buy a 48GX just west >>of London (Or even in London)? > > > > http://www.wfsleath.co.uk/d-commerce/hpscientific.html > > Tho' you'll see the prices are very similiar. > Yeah. Same proice as the official suppier, but these guys only have low-grade encryption. Guess i'll try tottenham court road... H -- I enjoy every minute of it... | | http://www.travellingkiwi.com/ | ==== I have various engineering programs on my old HP41CX written in HP-BASIC and I'd like to port them to my brand new HP48GX. However, the programming language for the HP48GX is regular BASIC. Can anyone recommend a program that will translate HP-BASIC to regular BASIC? I do have access to a card reader for the 41CX and a serial interface cable for the 48GX. I really don't want to have to retype all these programs. -A ==== Raymond I have various engineering programs on my old HP41CX written in > HP-BASIC and I'd like to port them to my brand new HP48GX. However, > the programming language for the HP48GX is regular BASIC. Can anyone recommend a program that will translate HP-BASIC to regular > BASIC? I do have access to a card reader for the 41CX and a serial > interface cable for the 48GX. I really don't want to have to retype > all these programs. > -A ==== I have for sale an HP-19C calculator in very excellent (nearly new)condition. No marks or scratches on the calculator body, and the chrome trim is good as well. The rubber feet look great, etc. Display is clear and all digits work. The printing is clear. I just had the battery pack rebuilt at a local battery shop, and so it holds a charge just fine. Includes an adaptor and calculator only - no case. Price is $275 plus actual shipping charges (typically about $7 via UPS ground in the continental US). I have pics available for anyone who is interested. Contact dddavis@mindspring.com ==== In message , Veli-Pekka Nousiainen >Do you mean the ROM 1.19-7 beta beta which Avenard has not yet released >due to fact that he no longer works for HP BUT the good news are that >in >and the new ROM can be released. No the other one ;-) -- ==== I am finally getting around to writing my RPG for the HP48/49. I want the animation speed to be the same whether the game is running on a 48SX, 48GX, or a 49. As I understand it, the 48SX runs at ~ 2 MHz, the 48GX at ~ 4 Mhz. Q1. What speed does the 49 run at? Q2. What would people recommend is the best practise to have the game run at the same speed regarless of what calc it is running on? Should I redraw the screen twice as often on the GX? :) Use a delay loop? etc. Q3. Sasm.doc, on the Goodies disk #4, lists the clock cycles for each (SX) mnemonic. Are these valid for the GX as well? What about clock cycles on the 49? It's using the same Saturn CPU, correct? Q4. How do I read the clock from ML? Q5. How are people profiling there ML code? Is there a way to do this at run-time? I don't see a timestamp register to read from. :( I could use the clock, but what is the accuracy I should expect? Sorry if these questions have been asked before. ==== On the HP49G is it possible to constrain variables say when taking the limit. For example the variable a in what follows. limit(a^x) for x->+oo when 0 schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I am finally getting around to writing my RPG for the HP48/49. I want > the animation speed to be the same whether the game is running on a > 48SX, 48GX, or a 49. As I understand it, the 48SX runs at ~ 2 MHz, > the 48GX at ~ 4 Mhz. Q1. What speed does the 49 run at? > A1: About the same (clock) speed as the HP-48G(X), at about 3.6 to just below 4MHz. > Q2. What would people recommend is the best practise to have the game > run at the same speed regarless of what calc it is running on? Should > I redraw the screen twice as often on the GX? :) Use a delay loop? > etc. > A2: Use a delay loop (see A4 below) > Q3. Sasm.doc, on the Goodies disk #4, lists the clock cycles for each > (SX) mnemonic. Are these valid for the GX as well? What about clock > cycles on the 49? It's using the same Saturn CPU, correct? > A3: Cycle times are dependant on clock speed, cycle counts are not. So if you have cycle counts, the SX values are valid for the GX as well AFAIK the 49G uses a compatible CPU, but not exactly the same chip as in the 48, so I don't know if cycle counts have changed there. > Q4. How do I read the clock from ML? > A4: Read the System RAM location =CSPEED , which is the CPU speed in 16 Hz units. Addresses: SX: #704D6h GX: #80655h 49: ??? > Q5. How are people profiling there ML code? Is there a way to do this > at run-time? I don't see a timestamp register to read from. :( I > could use the clock, but what is the accuracy I should expect? > A5: Use Debug4x, which features a profiling tool. > Sorry if these questions have been asked before. > No problem. But many questions have been answered on www.hpcalc.org Raymond ==== You can make a serial cable. See in the Eric Rechlin Web site (www.hpcalc.org), the pinouts from Enrico Carta. Type in the window (search!) ... enrico carta Other options: 1) Consult in www.hp.com for ... HP-F1897A (Connectivity Pack). Your cost is aprox. U$S 30 2)The SAMSON cables in ... www.samsoncables.com Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK (M.A.C.H.) **************************************************************************** *** > I'm in need of a new cable for my 48SX.....any help locating one would be > appreciated. ==== > Where on the web can I find the plug-in ROM and RAM cartridges for my 48GX? > Craig https://www.calcpro.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi 128K Ram Card (for SX & GX) http://www.helpfindit.com/cgi-win/dream55.exe/~i008000250843 Tripod Data Systems (They are one of few that make RAM cards) http://www.instrumentsales1.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/online-store/scstore/ data05.htm?E+scstore ==== > This is a question to those having a particular deep > insight in the OS of the 48/49 like Jonathan, Werner, > Raymond and perhaps some others. I'm none of the above, but Bill Wickes certainly is. > Let the program :: CK1&Dispatch BINT 31 #>CHR ; > be called B2C. It transforms a single bint or a nonempty > list of bints into a character or a list of characters, resp, > checking also whether a list contains indeed only bints > and nothing else. The automatic list processing offered by CK1&Dispatch is ONLY reliable when the program is in a library *and* the CK&Dispatch word is the very first word in the program. Any other use of it and all bets are off. > :: > CH1N0LASTWD DUPTYPECSTR? MOTcase > :: > ID B2C >R NULL$ BEGIN RSWAP ticR NOTcase > COLA_EVAL RSWAP >T$ AGAIN > ; > DUPLEN$ #1+_ONE_DO DUPINDEX@ SUB$1# > SWAPLOOP LEN$ {}N > ; Line 4 runs phantastically fast. The problem is, if the > occurring name ID B2C is replaced by its program, > the dispatching doesn't anymore work on a list of bints. > Who knows why and how to fix this phenomenum? Bill knows why. Here's his explanation of it, posted here almost ten years ago, and available on Goodies Disk #9: (Comp.sys.hp48) Item: 1024 by jaykaye@kbbs.com [Joseph K. Horn] Subj: G/GX Auto List Processing Update ---------- Resp: 6 of 6 by billw@hpcvra.cv.hp.com [William C Wickes] Automatic list processing is a property of CK1&Dispatch ... CK5&Dispatch, which are intended only to be used as the first objects within keyword secondaries. It is *not* a property of CK&DISPATCH0/1. The latter words are used for dispatching at various levels; it would have been very dangerous to change their behavior. > I threw together a tiny program that started with > CK2&Dispatch, and it automatically had the new > list processing ability. But then I inserted a NOP > between the :: and the CK2&Dispatch, and the > list processing went away! That's not all that might go away. CKn&Dispatch assume that they are the first objects in a keyword secondary, and in particular that that secondary is preceded by a property list code and a command name. They should not be used elsewhere. I know that's not the point of Joe's example, but it makes me cringe when I see the CKn&Dispatch words flung around. Bill Wickes HP CVD ==== I am currently in Cal III and once again behind the curve in my '49g studies. I am trying to graph the following helix: r(t) = <3cos(t),4sin(t),1/2(t)> I am using the Ps-countour, but never seem to get any resonable curve out of it. I have used all manner of unusual bounds and eye points. Could someone please do this and then tell me how? I keep hoping that a calculus marathon will show up! :) How 'bout it Nick? (Again I love all your stuff!) Matt ==== Manel escribo: > 1.- When you simplify an equation or you want to solve > an equation system you are asked for RAD modes. > Could I change solving equations or anything in deegres > or gradians modes on new ROM by flags f.e.? No. Many operations require RAD mode. But here's a suggestion: set flag -120 and clear flag -123. That way, the calculator will switch modes quietly and automatically as needed. Also, make a key assignment that returns you to your favorite mode settings after the HP49G changes them. > 2.- Y <--> X INVERS FUNCTIONS. There will be any > command to exchange Y with X in functions? 'X' ISOL or 'X' SOLVE should do the trick. > 3.- OLD MENUS LIKE 30 WILL DISAPPEAR?. That is why the ASN command and USER mode exist. Assign << 75. TMENU >> to a away. > THERE WILL ADD AN OPTION TO > DELETE ALL VARIABLE AFTER USE IT? This will purge the vars in 'EQ': << RCEQ LVAR AXL PURGE >> Hey, everybody: is there an easier way? I got a feeling that there is, but I can't think of it. > 4.- SYNTAX COMMANDS. On HP-39 there are a > command SYNTAX than explains the syntax of a > command. There will be on new ROM? Press TOOL NXT and you'll see CASCMD (takes a command name as a string as its input) and HELP (takes no input). ALso, when you press the CAT key, the commands which have a syntax help available will show HELP on the F1 key. > 5.- Where say FULL TRANSLATION TO SPANISH > AND FRENCH means FULL. AT HELP COMMAND TO? Full? It's not full. It's not even *close* to full. But it's better than nothing. > 6.- ISOL COMMAND. Why I can't isolate the R or f > variable on this equation. > VDmin=sqr(8*R*f). Strange; it works on mine. Try purging those variables; solving usually fails if variables have stuff stored in them. The HP49G also has REALASSUME and similar commands that force the machine to treat any given variables in various ways. Be sure that you do not have any goofy variable settings in your 'CASDIR', or strange modes like complex mode or approximate mode or whatever. The CASCFG command resets the CAS settings to default; see if that helps. > 7.- Is The ROM totally finished? Yes. It is thoroughly coated with varnish. -Joe- ==== > > ... Line 4 runs phantastically fast. The problem is, if the > > occurring name ID B2C is replaced by its program, > > the dispatching doesn't anymore work on a list of bints. > > Who knows why and how to fix this phenomenum? > Bill knows why. Here's his explanation of it, posted here almost ten > years ago, and available on Goodies Disk #9. I'm sorry Joe, ten years ago I was buisy with other things (not the 48) what I regrett. Although I read much of your Goodies after they'd been published, I was unable to read everything :-) The tradedy is that people like Bill Wickes don't post anymore. But thank you very much that you did it for him. > Resp: 6 of 6 by billw@hpcvra.cv.hp.com [Bill Wickes], 18 Jun 1993 > Automatic list processing is a property of > CK1&Dispatch...CK5&Dispatch > which are intended only to be used as the first objects within > keyword secondaries. ... CKn&Dispatch assume that they are the > first objects in a keyword secondary, and in particular that that > secondary is preceded by a property list code and a command name. > They should not be used elsewhere. I know that's not the point of > Joe's example, but it makes me cringe when I see the CKn&Dispatch > words flung around. - Bill Wickes, HP CVD Interesting to learn that already in the good old times the commands CKn&Dispatch flow around like birds in the programs :-) Why not giving them at least a little more freedom? It would really be nice if they worked inside any program whenever they are the first object in a secondary, but not necessarily preceded by a command name Certainly, their codes are complicated. But I'm somehow convinced that Jonathan, say, can not only completely read this codes but offer some relatively small modifications which work as I indicated. One may write modifications in SysRPL, but these would obviously be too slow... PS. A pitty that you did not yet add a Goodies Disk 12 to this valuable collection, still mainly concerning the HP48G without metakernel, not the HP49. I take the opportunity to let you know that some commands of your porting of Smartkeys to the HP48 heavily crash the machine. ==== Just a correction. The number has 56348 digits. ==== >This is a question to those having a particular deep insight in the OS >of the 48/49 like Jonathan, Werner, Raymond and perhaps some others. Let the program :: CK1&Dispatch BINT 31 #>CHR ; be called B2C. It >transforms a single bint or a nonempty list of bints into a character or >a list of characters, resp, checking also whether a list contains indeed >only bints and nothing else. The following program will be called $~BL. It toggles a list of bints >with a string of characters which correspond to the bints. This program >is useful because it compresses a very long bint-list into a string of >half of the size. Used, e.g., in programming the well-known tool ACC >which draws a nice clock face with all its little numbers and which >updates every second. $~BL uses Jurjen's trick, the most dirty and >efficient return stack trick I ever seen: >:: > CH1N0LASTWD DUPTYPECSTR? MOTcase > :: > ID B2C >R NULL$ BEGIN RSWAP ticR NOTcase COLA_EVAL RSWAP >T$ AGAIN > ; > DUPLEN$ #1+_ONE_DO DUPINDEX@ SUB$1# SWAPLOOP LEN$ {}N >; Line 4 runs phantastically fast. The problem is, if the occurring name >ID B2C is replaced by its program, the dispatching doesn't anymore work >on a list of bints. Who knows why and how to fix this phenomenum? Hope on an answer, > Wolfgang As pointed out by Joe Horn, the CK1&Dispatch entry is only meant to be called from *within a library routine* and furthermore it has to be the first object in that routine. To understand why this is the case, we need to look at the internals of CK1&Dispatch. Upon decompilation, one finds that CK1&Dispatch branches to a certain entry when the second pass, which strips tags from the stack arguments and repeats the matching process, has completed and still no match has been found in the object type list. This entry is #72EA5 on the 48G/GX and #22D1D on the 49 ( 1.19-6 ) and is responsible for the automatic list processing. If we look at the decompilation of the above entry, we see it contains a check that the ROMPTR body, which is *assumed* to precede the routine pointed to by LASTROMWDOB ( the last executed library command, which is set to point to the B2C secondary in this case ), has a library ID field that is less than #700. ( libraries with an ID greater than or equal to this number are the so called macro roms ) It is pure chance that the 6 nibbles preceding your B2C program in memory satisfy the above condition. Any object pointer whose address's last 2 nibbles are greater than #6F will violate this condition, as happens when you precede your program by a DOCOL. A fix, or more appropriately a kludge, to *guarantee* that the nibbles preceding your code are acceptable to CK1&Dispatch, is to prepend a code object whose last 6 nibbles are zero, as in the following example : CODE GOVLNG =Loop CON(6) 0 ENDCODE :: CK1&Dispatch 31 #>CHR ; Still, there are drawbacks to the above approach, namely that any errors generated by CK1&Dispatch will result in an error string that attributes it's cause to a garbage XLIB name. Because of this, you can see that your initial CK1NOLASTWD is superfluous. CK1 would work just as well. There are ways to get around these problems, but AFAIK they are all complicated and convoluted (*), which possibly outweighs the size advantage gained by using the built in list processing in the first place. (*) Note that the preceding paragraph doesn't apply if for some reason you are using CK1&Dispatch from within a library routine but not at the beginning. In that case you can replace the CON(6) 0 by the body of the ROMPTR that points to the currently executing library routine. In that way, if an error occurs it will be attributed correctly and you can avoid all of the complications entailed by trying to get correct error attribution outside of a library routine. Here is one such way : CODE =SysNib20 EQU #80814 LC(5) =SysNib20 CD0EX A=0 A DAT0=A 1 D0=C D0=D0+ 10 GOVLNG (=CK&DISPATCH1)+5 ENDCODE ASSEMBLE - RPL :: CK1&Dispatch 31 #>CHR 5 :: CODE LC(5) =SysNib20 CD0EX A=DAT0 1 ?A#0 P GOYES error A=A+1 A DAT0=A 1 D0=C A=C A LC(5) (+)-(-) A=A-C A GOVLNG =DOBINT error D0=C GOVLNG (=SETTYPEERR)+5 + ENDCODE ROMPTR 0E8 0D ; ; A significant amount of complication can be removed from the above if you allow it to work on lists within lists and/or if nothing your program does or calls changes CPU status bit 5. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== Q3. Sasm.doc, on the Goodies disk #4, lists the clock cycles for each >> (SX) mnemonic. Are these valid for the GX as well? What about clock >> cycles on the 49? It's using the same Saturn CPU, correct? >A3: >Cycle times are dependant on clock speed, >cycle counts are not. >So if you have cycle counts, the SX values are valid for the GX as well Actually, they aren't. The SX CPU (Clarke) was redesigned for the GX so as to make all the instructions about twice as fast. This has been confirmed by Dave Arnett and empirical evidence such as these cycle counts : http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1707 http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4923 The speed increase probably comes from the ALU running at twice the clock speed as the rest of the chip. That would partly explain why you have fractional cycle counts on the GX. AFAIK the 49G uses a compatible CPU, but not exactly the same chip as in the >48, >so I don't know if cycle counts have changed there. The 49 uses the same IC as the 48G/GX, namely the Yorke. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== > To understand why this is the case, we need to look at the > internals of CK1&Dispatch. Upon decompilation, one finds that ... answers. You don't simply underline that this or that is impossible or forbidden, you explain to us why it is so. Unfortunately, your postings became more rare (maybe for well-known reason). Please continue with your contributions, times lead not always to a worse direction :-) ==== > I am finally getting around to writing my RPG for the HP48/49. I want > the animation speed to be the same whether the game is running on a > 48SX, 48GX, or a 49. As I understand it, the 48SX runs at ~ 2 MHz, > the 48GX at ~ 4 Mhz. Q1. What speed does the 49 run at? 48G=49G =2*48S > Q2. What would people recommend is the best practise to have the game > run at the same speed regarless of what calc it is running on? Should > I redraw the screen twice as often on the GX? :) Use a delay loop? > etc. How about going for grayscale (twice the pixels) ?? Jonathan? > Q3. Sasm.doc, on the Goodies disk #4, lists the clock cycles for each > (SX) mnemonic. Are these valid for the GX as well? What about clock > cycles on the 49? It's using the same Saturn CPU, correct? 48S # 48G=49G > Q4. How do I read the clock from ML? Beats me? > Q5. How are people profiling there ML code? Is there a way to do this > at run-time? I don't see a timestamp register to read from. :( I > could use the clock, but what is the accuracy I should expect? ??? PS: One more note: code on odd/even address takes more/less clocks! ==== there are two commands in the manual of HP49G to help 1) Press ON and than F3 2) Stick a paper clip in the hole of the backside of calculator for a second, pull it back and press ON. Both actions set the calculator in the default modus. Let me know what you have done. Hans Joachim (.de) > Only thing I can see on screen is No System and a list of options. Can > someone help me how to restore my calculator. It seems that I've > pressed the wrong button and erased everything on my calc. Really > don't know how it happened. > > Blas > ==== > On the HP49G is it possible to constrain variables say when taking the > limit. For example the variable a in what follows. > limit(a^x) for x->+oo when 0 P.S. Off topic: On the shuttle during reentry there is a plasma produced, is it not > possible to shield the shuttle from it with some form of > electromagnetic field like they do in a tokomak reactor. just speculating Yes, maybe? but then the payload is always one huge tokamak system maybe better/thicker surface material is a lighter thus better solution. ==== > > which Avenard has not yet released > > > due to fact that he no longer works for HP > > > BUT > > > the good news are that at sometime this year > > > and the new ROM can be released. > > Are you certain the GPL cover the complete ROM? I'm not. > > It probably doesn't, since some of the ROM is copyrighted and owned by HP. -- > Bhuvanesh Yes BUT at least JYA can release the 1.19-7 then, right? JYA? ==== tittle corrections ==== HI, I am Manel. 1.- My HP49 had at CASDIR some variable as REALASSUME.I deleted It and Now I can isolate de R variable. 2.- Respect deleting all variables after using equation solver (30 menu), your program is usefull and short but only works if you have one equation stored at EQ variable. Developing your idea I have done another program. (Number of equations stored at EQ variable is not a problem) << RCEQ OBJ-> 0. {} -> N I VARI << DO LVAR AXL 'VARI' STO+ DROP 'I' INCR UNTIL N == END VARI PURGE >> NOTE: If you have only ONE equation at EQ varible, it must be a list. with 'd=a+b-c' does not work. You must enter {d=a+b-c} 3.- Respect RADians mode. I had read a post that says that the mode if you're on windoze or mac, i don't know if there are any such > so decode it first!), and i can do it for you and sent the result back > to you. IÇve made a reply to to the above. Rot13 encoding? What is that? Never heard of that... And btw: Is it true that nobody is capable of solving this (I canÇt believe that)???????? I can post the solution in next week if somebody wants it. I can get it from my math teacher, I suppose. IÇm trying to solve this on my HP49G (complex mode on): (z+i)/(z-i) = i/(4-i) What is the best way to get to this solution: 2/5 - 4/5*i ? I want to use only the calc and I want to see the steps from the beginning to the result, like you do it on paper to an examination (so that youÇre proving that you understand it). I canÇt figure it out. Hope someone thatÇs more clever than me can :-) provide a solution. IÇve tried making this first: (z+i)*(4-i) = (z-i)*i DonÇt know if thatÇs a help? I canÇt make the zÇs (and z*iÇs) disappear. Looking forward to hearing from some of you! Martin J. ==== I am new to this process and i'm having no luck getting my hp connected to my pc. I get the calculator in server mode but the connectivity program refuses to recognize the connection. I'm using Windows ME. Any suggestions for a novice? ==== >(about rot13-encoding) Sorry for asking. A simple search on google gave me the answer. Still looking forward to hearing from some people that can solve the equation below. Martin J. (reply to martin@tbkol.dk) > And btw: > Is it true that nobody is capable of solving this (I canÇt believe > that)???????? > I can post the solution in next week if somebody wants it. I can get it from > my math teacher, I suppose. > IÇm trying to solve this on my HP49G (complex mode on): (z+i)/(z-i) = i/(4-i) What is the best way to get to this solution: 2/5 - 4/5*i ? > I want to use only the calc and I want to see the steps from the beginning > to the result, like you do it on paper to an examination (so that youÇre > proving that you understand it). I canÇt figure it out. Hope someone thatÇs > more clever than me can :-) provide a solution. IÇve tried making this first: (z+i)*(4-i) = (z-i)*i > DonÇt know if thatÇs a help? I canÇt make the zÇs (and z*iÇs) disappear. Looking forward to hearing from some of you! Martin J. > ==== what software u use? for Connx4 on your 48 left shift and I/O [1] then [nxt] u will see the xrecv on the on screem meun and start receving file.... > I am new to this process and i'm having no luck getting my hp connected to > my pc. I get the calculator in server mode but the connectivity program > refuses to recognize the connection. I'm using Windows ME. Any suggestions > for a novice? ==== rot13 encoded skrev i en meddelelse > > on unices it's possible to convert the .pdf file to a postscript file > > (ie. with ps2pdf) and then use some postscript utils to fit N-pages to > > a single a4 page (ie. with a2ps). oops, that should read pdf2ps :) oops, the thing I was looking for was already to be found on http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3002 Stupid me. (It must have been uploaded recently :-) Martin J. ==== Hp49G, ROM 19.6, is their anyway to graph inequalties? [[Andres][Calvo]] ==== > ISOL COMMAND. Why I can't isolate the R or f variable > on this equation: VDmin=sqr(8*R*f). > HP shows ISOL Error - n.bc 56874 no solution found As Joe says, you have to first delete the variable which you want to isolate (or downgrade to an HP48, where you don't have to do that :) And if you don't see such a variable when you first look, check all higher directories, where you *also* have to delete it! If you are going to keep solving for one particular variable, store its name into 'VX' ( via MODE CAS screen or 'name' STOVX ) to have the calculator remind you about it. This information is of course top secret classified, handed out case-by-case on a need-to-know basis only, so don't publish it in any manual, okay? Has anybody yet passed this year's HPCSE exam? WR, can you make a library which will ghost all of the built-in CAS commands, in such a way that each command will automatically know what has to be done to make it work, and will automatically save any stuff that had to be deleted and put it back afterwards where it was (or maybe just rename variables to temporarily hide them), and will also automatically save and restore the modes and flags? It would be especially nice if even the keyboard functions and built-in menus could be ghosted as well, so that when you press keys directly to perform commands, the ghosted commands would take the place of the original commands, and would therefore work with no fuss or trouble at all, as users would naturally expect them to, before their innocent newbie status wears off :) I suspect that you might be awarded the German equivalent of a Knighthood if you could add that to your armory of 49G tools, powering the new WR super-calc with a 49G hidden inside :) Where was the original HP Marketing crew transferred to, anyway? Surely they must have been kept on board to assure continuity with future projects, as only software engineers actually become obsolete, as each distinct product ends its brief life cycle, and as the next engineering phase seems primarily to pick which knock-off clones of old Casios to re-brand with an HP logo ;) Invent? Innovate? Frumious Bandersnatch! http://www.bandersnatch.com/ http://www.frumiousbandersnatch.net/ But wait, there's more [heavy-side function]: http://www.terrorism.com/analysis/iw-deterrence.shtml cyber_dc But my Curta is still safe from cyber-attack, isn't it? (and hardened against EMP, I think) -[]- . ==== Do you get weird numbers when you download it, or when you attempt to run it? What are the numbers, incorrect results or strange unintelligable characters? ==== Can anyone point me to the document which shows up the full translation table, that needs to be done on the file before sending it to the calc, and after recieving the data? Even if I do type <<, >> and ->'s, calc still says Invalid syntax near the end of the file (with the string >> [black point] >> [black point] on the screen). -- Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. ==== > > There are people like JYA and others who're making their programs on a > PC or leptop. But I like programming in an armchair or at the fresh air, > without a heavy leptop on my knees, and I can do it at holydays, even at > a boring talk or party or ... > Very true. I carried a bag around with the HP, the User's manual, and a solar ephemeris that had a one page key-in program for calculating azimuth from a sun or star shot. My biggest problem was realizing that the program as written expected a printer to be connected, and had to have those references dropped before it would work. Provided months of spare time amusement. :-) -- Richard... DH/DSS: 0x886DFF31 ==== I am attempting to build my own HP 48GX cable to link to my PC and I am having trouble locating the 4 pin connector that connects to the HP. I was told by my friend that I could most likely order the right kind of connector from digikey.com if I had a part #. I was wondering if anyone has ordered this connector or knows of a part number for it, or could tell me where else I could obtain one. ==== I'm using the HP connectivity software - latest version. > what software u use? > for Connx4 > on your 48 left shift and I/O [1] then [nxt] > u will see the xrecv on the on screem meun > and start receving file.... > > I am new to this process and i'm having no luck getting my hp connected to > > my pc. I get the calculator in server mode but the connectivity program > > refuses to recognize the connection. I'm using Windows ME. Any > suggestions > > for a novice? > > ==== for part numbers, refer to http://holyjoe.org/hp/cable.htm Raymond Adrian de Montbrun schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I am attempting to build my own HP 48GX cable to link to my PC and I am > having trouble locating the 4 pin connector that connects to the HP. I was > told by my friend that I could most likely order the right kind of connector > from digikey.com if I had a part #. I was wondering if anyone has ordered > this connector or knows of a part number for it, or could tell me where else > I could obtain one. > ==== I was wondering how to simplify something on the 49G. EX. (X*Y^2)^2 * (5X^3*Y^2)^6 Advice Would Be Greatly Appreciated, THANXS IN ADVANCE, CID ==== right shift and rigth arrow, then start ur program i have no problem with that.... if still have problem download conn4x, i guess that one work better. > I'm using the HP connectivity software - latest version. > > what software u use? > > for Connx4 > > on your 48 left shift and I/O [1] then [nxt] > > u will see the xrecv on the on screem meun > > and start receving file.... > > > I am new to this process and i'm having no luck getting my hp connected > to > > > my pc. I get the calculator in server mode but the connectivity program > > > refuses to recognize the connection. I'm using Windows ME. Any > > suggestions > > > for a novice? > > > > ==== Get a small (4-wire) CD drive cable. Its connector works just fine to your HP. HTH, Pyerre > I am attempting to build my own HP 48GX cable to link to my PC and I am > having trouble locating the 4 pin connector that connects to the HP. I was > told by my friend that I could most likely order the right kind of connector > from digikey.com if I had a part #. I was wondering if anyone has ordered > this connector or knows of a part number for it, or could tell me where else > I could obtain one. > ==== > IÇm trying to solve this on my HP49G (complex mode on): > > (z+i)/(z-i) = i/(4-i) > > What is the best way to get to this solution: 2/5 - 4/5*i ? Put '(z+i)/(z-i) = i/(4-1)' on the stack. Put 'z' on the stack. Execute the ISOL command. You will get 'z=(2-4*i)/5' Is that close enough. ==== > [nifty HP49G tidbits] > This information is of course top secret classified, > handed out case-by-case on a need-to-know basis > only, so don't publish it in any manual, okay? BWAH Hah hah!!! :-) So true, so true. Hey, I have an idea: we should put HP in charge of national security! There's no way that ANYBODY would find out any classified information... or anything else, either! :-)^2 -Joe- EQU joehorn@holyjoe.net ==== > Can anyone point me to the document which shows > up the full translation table, that needs to be done > on the file before sending it to the calc, and after > recieving the data? Here's the entire TIO table, captured from Eric Rechlin's scan of the HP48 manual: http://holyjoe.net/hp/tiotable.png -Joe- EQU joehorn@holyjoe.net ==== > Put '(z+i)/(z-i) = i/(4-1)' on the stack. > Put 'z' on the stack. > Execute the ISOL command. You will get > 'z=(2-4*i)/5' Is that close enough. No, not really. Because if I get this question at an examination, then I would have failed the test because the 49G step-by-step function doesnÇt ==== > Happy scrolling, > Nick. Hey, thatÇs cool. Why isnÇt that standard? IÇm gonna put that PDIM-thing, right away into my startup-variable so that I donÇt have to erase and redraw the graph-view each time I found out that I should move the view for example down, left, up, etc. etc. Martin J. ==== Mike Ross skrev i en meddelelse > I am new to this process and i'm having no luck getting my hp connected to > my pc. I get the calculator in server mode but the connectivity program > refuses to recognize the connection. I'm using Windows ME. Any suggestions > for a novice? I think I can help you (I hope)! I had the same problem, when I got my HP49G (about 5 months ago). I spend hours and hours wondering what where wrong, and then I found out that the only reason that the connectivity failed was because the flow-control option should not be set to hardware (opposite of what I was used to, when I used modem). Instead XON/XOFF makes the solution to my problem. At that time, when I didnÇt knew any of the calculator software I used hyperterminal, that ships with windows, for connecting to my 49G. Hope that my post helps you. Martin J. ==== > Put '(z+i)/(z-i) = i/(4-1)' on the stack. Put 'z' on the stack. > Execute the ISOL command. > You will get 'z=(2-4*i)/5' > Is that close enough? Virgil, I think that some teachers would just not accept this and ask the student for further simplification, namely to z = 2/5 - 4/5*i. Now, as you know (e.g. from your solution of my problem with these cyclic sequences) neither EXPAND nor COLLECT nor SIMPLIFY and hence not ISOL end up with the solution in the form in the last paragraph (in exact complex mode, of course). It is not quite clear to me which normal forms the 49 CAS really uses for representing complex-valued algebraic terms. For a mathematician, it is most important to know which normal forms a CAS uses to represent terms in its best readable t_1 + t_2 * i is indeed the easiest readable normal form, where t_1 and t_2 are normal forms for real algebraic terms. In other words, real and imaginary part of an complex algebraic term should be separated. Any other normal form representation should at least be documented for the users of 49 CAS, but I cannot find any such documentation :-) Although (2-4*i)/5 = 2/5 - 4/5*i is as true as it only can be, I see no way to verify this equation in a *direct* way with the HP49-CAS. This shows, IMHO, a certain deficit of this system. - Wolfgang PS. Clearly, there may be different so-called normal forms for terms in a class of algebraic structures, in particular in rings and fields and in boolean algebra were one often uses the so-called canonical normal forms. These are not only important in theory but as well in practice. ==== I typed your expression into the Equation Writer, selected (or highlighted) the entire expression and hit the SIMPLIFY key (F6) and got 15625Y^16*X^20. Is that what you are trying to get? Dave > I was wondering how to simplify something on the 49G. EX. (X*Y^2)^2 * (5X^3*Y^2)^6 Advice Would Be Greatly Appreciated, > THANXS IN ADVANCE, CID > ==== I read about this new ROM version,but it is true or I'm going mad? Where can I find it? Which are the improvements? (sorry for my english) Bye to all of you! ==== It's a periodic thing... occasionally a hot item flares up and the flames leap (a bit like solar events). Right now, I think it's being acerbated by the global, geo-political state of affairs and the demise of ACO finally seeping in--making us a bit grumpy. Greg S > Is it time for Silly Season? At least four of our senior, articulate users are flaming away at each > other over topics that seem, at least at this remove, a bit vapourous. Since it appears to be global, I assume it wasn't terrorists dropping > Nasty Pills into the water supply. Cosmic rays, perhaps? Bill ==== David Smith skrev i en meddelelse > I typed your expression into the Equation Writer, selected (or highlighted) > the entire expression and hit the SIMPLIFY key (F6) and got 15625Y^16*X^20. > Is that what you are trying to get? I did the same thing, but I get a ! SIMPLIFY Error: Bad Argument Type... So I can understand why drunken master asks the question :-) Martin J ==== Here's a mini-challenge for System RPL programmers! (Mini for the experts, midi for the enthusiasts, maxi for the amateurs, fuhgeddaboudit for the wannabes.) Write a SRPL program that traverses all of main memory (including directories, subdirectories, etc), finds all programs with << >> delimiters, and inserts Author: XYZ DROP after the opening <<, if those two objects are not there already. This process will be referred to as author stamping. Special rules: (1) The author stamp's string may have any contents you wish, but the author stamp must be exactly two objects: a string followed by the User RPL DROP command. (2) The program must not modify any other object in memory in any way. (3) The program, when run repeatedly, must not modify programs that have already been author stamped. (4) The program must reside in main RAM but it must run correctly no matter what directory it's in. (5) The program must still work even if the user renames it. That last one is the real challenge: nameless recursion. Have fun! Neither despair nor sneeze, for the task is neither impossible nor trivial. The winning entry will be the most elegant solution, as agreed upon by all those who submit an entry. Happy Programming! -Joe- EQU joehorn@holyjoe.net -- Theoden: I know what it is you want of me, but I will not bring further death to my people. I will not risk open war. Aragorn: Open war is upon you, whether you would risk it or not. [from the movie Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers] Aragorn: You have skill with a blade. Eowyn: Women in this country learned long ago that those without swords can still die upon them. [ibid] ==== Another thing to check is to make sure you have working serial ports, and that you are trying to connect to the correct one. This problem had me going for a while the first time i tried to connect my 48 to the PC. Jim > I am new to this process and i'm having no luck getting my hp connected to > my pc. I get the calculator in server mode but the connectivity program > refuses to recognize the connection. I'm using Windows ME. Any suggestions > for a novice? ==== I have some comments: > Virgil, I think that some teachers would just not accept this and ask > the student for further simplification, namely to z = 2/5 - 4/5*i. Exactly. > Now, as you know (e.g. from your solution of my problem with these > cyclic sequences) neither EXPAND nor COLLECT nor SIMPLIFY and hence > not ISOL end up with the solution in the form in the last paragraph > (in exact complex mode, of course). It is not quite clear to me which > normal forms the 49 CAS really uses for representing complex-valued > algebraic terms. For a mathematician, it is most important to know > which normal forms a CAS uses to represent terms in its best readable > t_1 + t_2 * i > is indeed the easiest readable normal form, where t_1 and t_2 are normal > forms for real algebraic terms. In other words, real and > imaginary part of an complex algebraic term should be separated. Any > other normal form representation should at least be documented for the > users of 49 CAS, but I cannot find any such documentation :-) I can follow your thoughts. I think that itÇs stupid that the step-by-step mode doesnÇt function here (especially when the 49G, shows, that itÇs capable of solving the equation using ISOL+ SOLVE) when it does an absolutely good job on showing how matrixes are reduced, as an example. ItÇs just not logical IMHO that you can turn on the step-by-step function and when it comes to isolating variables, which sometimes could be a task of many calculating operations, then the calculator doesnÇt show you how it comes to an answer. Anyway: > Although (2-4*i)/5 = 2/5 - 4/5*i is as true as it only can be, I see > no way to verify this equation in a *direct* way with the HP49-CAS. This > shows, IMHO, a certain deficit of this system. I think youÇre right! I would like that to be corrected in future calculators :-) But I was also thinking if it was possibly to solve the equation, using logical thinking and the equation writer only (by not using expand, solve, collect and isol). By rational thinking and by the help of the equation writer. I wanted to know if someone could show how the equation was solved, as one would do it on paper, but just using only the calculator! An example: I press [eqw] and enter (z+i)/(z-i) = i/(4-i) And using the eqw. I try to solve the equation (I canÇt!), example: Using the cursor keys I highlight (z+i) on the left side of the = sign. I multiply with the complex-conjugated, one (there probably is a command for that, but I just press [*] [(] [z] [+] [i] [)], followed by [simplify]. Next thing I do is to highlight the (z-i) part and multiply it by the same thing: I press [*] [(] [z] [+] [i] [)], and also does a [simplify] on that. With complex mode on, I now get this: (z^2 + 2*i*z - 1)/z^2 + 1 = i / (4-i), which I think is correct (but donÇt know if this is the way to get a solution). Now I could highlight (z^2+1) and press [rightshift]+[cut]+[backspace] and go multiply by that same thing on the right side: I now get (after pressing simplify), using [rightshift]+[paste], and simplifying the result: (z^2 + 2*i*z -1) = -((1-4i)z^2 - (1-4i))/17. Now I donÇt know what to do. I hope that this helps somebody to come with an answer! Martin J. ==== > > Put '(z+i)/(z-i) = i/(4-1)' on the stack. Put 'z' on the stack. > > Execute the ISOL command. > > You will get 'z=(2-4*i)/5' > > Is that close enough? > > Virgil, I think that some teachers would just not accept this and ask > the student for further simplification, namely to z = 2/5 - 4/5*i. > > Now, as you know (e.g. from your solution of my problem with these > cyclic sequences) neither EXPAND nor COLLECT nor SIMPLIFY and hence > not ISOL end up with the solution in the form in the last paragraph > (in exact complex mode, of course). It is not quite clear to me which > normal forms the 49 CAS really uses for representing complex-valued > algebraic terms. For a mathematician, it is most important to know > which normal forms a CAS uses to represent terms in its best readable > t_1 + t_2 * i > is indeed the easiest readable normal form, where t_1 and t_2 are normal > forms for real algebraic terms. In other words, real and > imaginary part of an complex algebraic term should be separated. Any > other normal form representation should at least be documented for the > users of 49 CAS, but I cannot find any such documentation :-) > > Although (2-4*i)/5 = 2/5 - 4/5*i is as true as it only can be, I see > no way to verify this equation in a *direct* way with the HP49-CAS. This > shows, IMHO, a certain deficit of this system. > > - Wolfgang > > PS. Clearly, there may be different so-called normal forms for terms > in a class of algebraic structures, in particular in rings and fields > and in boolean algebra were one often uses the so-called canonical > normal forms. These are not only important in theory but as well in > practice. If 'z=(2-4*i)/5' isn't good enough, execute DISTRIB. ==== > (z+i)/(z-i) = i/(4-i) Create '(Z+i)/(Z-i) = i/(4-i)' on the stack, and to edit it in the EQW. If you aren't too familiar with partial fraction decomposition, following commands, and watch the screen: PARTFRAC - 1 EVAL EVAL INV EVAL EVAL * 2 EVAL EVAL NEG EVAL EVAL - 1 EVAL EVAL / i EVAL EVAL * 5 EVAL / 5 /5 , and hence 'Z=2/5-4/5*i'. This'll hopefully give you a good idea of how you can manipulate expressions manually in the EQW. ==== > > Put '(z+i)/(z-i) = i/(4-1)' on the stack. > > Put 'z' on the stack. > > Execute the ISOL command. > > You will get > > 'z=(2-4*i)/5' > > Is that close enough. > > No, not really. Because if I get this question at an examination, then I > would have failed the test because the 49G step-by-step function doesnÇt I see. What you want is something more like: Starting with '(z+i)/(z-i) = i/(4-1)' (1) Eliminate fractions: Enter the least common denominator of all fractions, '(z-i)*(4-i)', then press the times key, *, which multiplies (both sides of) the equation by '(z-i)*(4-i)', and execute EVAL. This will get rid of all fractions in the equation. (2) Shift and combine terms: Enter the z term from the right hand side, 'i*z' and the constant term from the left hand side, '1 + 4*i', add them togather then subtract from (both sides of) the equation and execute EVAL again. This shifts and collects terms, giving '(4-2*i)*z = -(4*i)'. (3) Eliminate coefficient of z: Enter the coefficient of z, '4-2*i', and divide (both sides of) the equation by that, execute EVALonce more to get 'z = (2 - 4*i)/5'. (4) Execute DISTRIB to get 'z = 2/5 - 4/5*i' Is this what you wanted? ==== > It's a periodic thing... occasionally a hot item flares up and the flames > leap (a bit like solar events). Right now, I think it's being acerbated by > the global, geo-political state of affairs and the demise of ACO finally > seeping in--making us a bit grumpy. You're probably right. Especially about ACO. People whose only experience with HP is buying a recent HP49 probably have no idea what all the fuss is about. It's about HP being a standard of excellence since Bill Hewlett and David Packard put that audio oscillator together about 60 years ago. When everyone else was tending toward dumbed-down mass marketing, HP was always insistent on well-designed, beautifully made products - the Rolls-Royce of test equipment and calculators. Now it looks as if the Old Guard has been replaced by mass marketers. The look and feel of the 49, its lack of documentation, its lack of support, and all the customer questions left hanging in the air - agh! It's as if Antonio Stradivarius had stopped making violins and started making ukeleles with Donald Duck painted on them. Bill Not that February in Toronto helps things Markwick ==== [snip] It's as if Antonio Stradivarius had stopped making violins and started > making ukeleles with Donald Duck painted on them. > LOL! Plastic ukeleles with Mickey -- Ditto otherwise. The sad thing is that Carly and Co. want it that way (by design). Bill Not that February in Toronto helps things Markwick Hey, I've been Toronto in the dead of winter (attending a conference last year) -- I can see why hockey's big up there. There's a wonderful French Restaurant, Le Select, on Queen Street West in Toronto. Greg (just down the road from Corvallis, where it all once happened) S. ==== > > (z+i)/(z-i) = i/(4-i) > Create '(Z+i)/(Z-i) = i/(4-i)' on the stack, and to edit > it in the EQW. If you aren't too familiar with partial fraction by a long series of equivalent transformations (multiplying numerator and denomintator by the same thing in a scilled way, combined with adding and then substracting the same thing, etc) will finally lead or nearly immediately by an intelligent CAS. That DISTRlB does it now in two steps is OK. But I ask why is the the term-transformation command DISTRIB not in the menu of the EQW? (ok, isn't of much interest to me and probably to JKH who overwrite the EQW of the HP48 by the OVER command if I correctly remember). And why does the system not itself apply DISTRIB for simplifying? - Wolfgang PS. neither you nor Virgil said anything about normal forms of real and complex arithmetic terms. This is what would be interesting to me :) ==== I have been programming some stuff in sysrpl and off course had several memory loses. I had backups which I always restored. Now when I want to look at a picture with gdream, all I see is noise. No pictures anymore. The pictures are stored in port1, so they didn't get lost or corrupt. Whats wrong? Michael ==== > Is it time for Silly Season? At least four of our senior, articulate users are flaming away at each > other over topics that seem, at least at this remove, a bit vapourous. Since it appears to be global, I assume it wasn't terrorists dropping > Nasty Pills into the water supply. Cosmic rays, perhaps? I don't know about them, but it's been colder than Scandinavian Hell around here for too long, which tends to have a negative effect on my personality and typing ability. -- James ==== > and complex arithmetic terms. Perhaps I should explain more closely what I mean, but for the domain of real and complex arithmetical terms in X only. Arithmetical terms or one of the constants pi, e, i (i only in the complex case) (t_1 + t_2), and the same if + is replaced here by any of the symbols - * / (not ^). Now, by a not at all trivial induction on the construction of terms one can show that each such term in the real case is equivalent (i.e., has the same value for any value of X) to a term (a_n*X^n + ... + a_1*X + a_0)/( b_m*X^m + ... + b_1*X + b_0) for some natural numbers n,m such that a_n, b_m <> 0, and constants a_i, b_i. I omitted here the outermost pair of brackets and assume right-bracketing in the repeated +. To drop non-admissable terms it suffices to exclude terms of the form t/0. In addition, it may be assumed that the two polynomials in X have no common divisor in the ring For complex terms it is very similar, just the real and the imaginary part separated, with just a single occurrence of the constant i. But one may also consider different normal forms in the complex case. Things get somewhat more involed if square-root is admitted as a base function, and clearly much more involved if transcential function like SIN are added as base functions. Another direction of complicating the story is the admission of several variables, not only X. Wolfgang ==== Enter the coefficient of z, '4-2*i', and divide (both sides > of) the equation by that, execute EVALonce more to get > 'z = (2 - 4*i)/5'. (4) Execute DISTRIB to get 'z = 2/5 - 4/5*i' Is this what you wanted? EXACTLY! I must be stupid :-) Yes, I wanted to ask the question, also because that I need to know some effective ways to manipulate with equations. So still, if anyone has any clever/smart/alternative ways of manipulating with the equation (terms e.g.) I ofcourse would be interested in how to do it in an efficient way. Btw: Am I the only person in here that sometimes have trouble, highlighting specific terms for cut/pasting? I sometimes try to use F2 (cursor) within the EQW but itÇs not always easy to hightlight the terms you want... I can be more specific tonight, if anyone wants an example of this (I have to go to school now). Wolfgang, in this thread, but IÇll do that later tonight when I come back from school.... Martin Jorgensen. ==== Solved it. I just installed it again. > I have been programming some stuff in sysrpl and off course had > several memory loses. I had backups which I always restored. > > Now when I want to look at a picture with gdream, all I see is noise. > No pictures anymore. > > The pictures are stored in port1, so they didn't get lost or corrupt. > > Whats wrong? > > Michael ==== > > Is it time for Silly Season? > > At least four of our senior, articulate users are flaming away at each > > other over topics that seem, at least at this remove, a bit vapourous. > > Since it appears to be global, I assume it wasn't terrorists dropping > > Nasty Pills into the water supply. Cosmic rays, perhaps? I don't know about them, but it's been colder than Scandinavian Hell > around here for too long, which tends to have a negative effect on my > personality and typing ability. Well, James, you should type inhouse only, do not go out with your portable PC/Mac and/or Jornada/49G ;-) Keep it cool! ==== > fuhgeddaboudit for the wannabes.) Yeah - right! X > (5) The program must still work even if the user renames it. That last one is the real challenge: nameless recursion. Have fun! Neither > despair nor sneeze, for the task is neither impossible nor trivial. X This was the only thing that I thought that is easy... ==== It's true and if you read regularly this NG > I read about this new ROM version,but it is true or I'm going mad? > Where can I find it? Which are the improvements? > (sorry for my english) Bye to all of you! ==== Have you tried to slice the function (from the inequality points) and then print all (three ?) of them sequentially? > Hp49G, ROM 19.6, is their anyway to graph inequalties? [[Andres][Calvo]] ==== > Hp49G, ROM 19.6, is their anyway to graph inequalties? > > [[Andres][Calvo]] You might want to take a look at the plot type TRUTH. Greetings, Nick. ==== I tried to use the ASSUME command in order to restrict solutions of trigonometric equations. As an simple example: ASSUME(W>=0) ASSUME(W<2 Pi) SOLVE(SIN(W)=1,W) which should give me Pi/2. But the restrictions seem not to work: you get the periodic solutions: Pi/2 +/- 2*PI*n1. I checked the REALASSUME list and it looks ok: {X Y t S1 S2 W<2*Pi AND W>=0} (40G CAS should be comparable to 1.19-1 of 49G) Any suggestions? Axel ==== Please donÇt swallow your morning coffee the wrong way. IÇm just wondering if there are any hidden features of the HP19BII? ItÇs almost (well I am indeed pushing it now, ... ) a HP28, must have a Saturn processor etcetera. SOmeone must have found out how to dissolve it? Just my monday-morning thoughts after grabbing the mentioned calc yesterday. +0 deg C in the North of Sweden ==== How can I program my HP48G+? Is there a link where I can download a copliler o something like it? ==== It would be interesting to compare the symbolic capabilities of different math packages (and against the HP48). Perhaps someone can recommend a suite of tests (or maybe such suites and results already exist). Also, many/most of us cannot benefit from academic versions/costs of any software. Thomas > I used to use Derive some years ago, but would choose the lite version of > MathCAD over it any day, and the cost is not much more - especially if you > can buy the academic version. MathCAD is available in a regular and i > version. The i version only adds differential equation handling, but > costs considerably more (all is relative). > > While it's not on your list, I've found that un 'unknown' yet very > > powerful mathematics software is 'Derive'. It not only handles > > numerics to arbitrary (user defined) precision, complex variables, > > matrix/vector data types, but also handles symbolics very well. > > Further, it costs just about $100.00 (maybe $150, don't recall > > offhand). It's not quite as pretty as far as user interface to Mcad > > and the others, but it certainly is more affordable. You can download > > a fully functional trial (I believe 30 day) version from their > > website. You can find it via your fav search engine. A dealer down > > in Miami, Fla discounts it a bit, too. > > (A bit of history, Derive 5.0 is an ancestor of 'Mumath' which was > > (one of, if not) the first symbolic math package for the PC (and even > > CP/M!). Also, (and hopefully we (the HP48 community) won't hold this > > against it; it was purchased from its developers (Soft Warehouse) by > > T.I. a number of years ago.) > > TomCee > > kool (and very compatible!); it however can't support multiple figure > > windows. > > > I'd like to know the HP48 community's opinions about high powered > > > math programs such as Mathematica, Maple, MatLab and Math Cad. > > > > Are there such PC math programs you've tried, and just loved > > > or just hated? > > > > Enquiring minds want to know. > > > > Ed > > ==== > > symbolically reduce SIGMA of LN(X) from X=1 to N. The solution should be > > something like ln((n+1)*n!) - ln(n+1), which I believe simplifies to ln(n!). > > If it could reduce this type of expression, you could simply do EXP of the > > answer to get n! (after doing LNCOLLECT, or a similar command). > > Naturally, the TI-89 has no trouble with this simple sum ;-) > > Just teasing, > Bhuvanesh. And we still talk about sides, dark sides, luminous sides, and the similar. ;-) Greetings, Nick. ==== is there any brilliant and short way to get the character printed on a key from the key code, for example M from 41.1. Things were easy on the 49GX where only the Enter-key disturbed a small formula. Peter ==== PB> is there any brilliant and short way to get the character printed on a PB> key from the key code, for example M from 41.1. Things were easy on PB> the 49GX where only the Enter-key disturbed a small formula. You don't say which programming language. In SystemRPL: :: Ck&DecKeyLoc (decode to SystemRPL key representation) DROP FOUR (make sure the key plane is 4, i.e. ALPHA) Key>StdKeyOb (extract the key object assigned to this key) CHR>$ (convert the character to a string) ; - Carsten ==== > X > > > > questions, Petra (my wife) appears and asks Shall I go complex, > > > > baby?. Woooooowwwwww! Math is fun!!!! > > > X > > > If she's properly dressed and your not telling bedtime stories > > [Continuing the bedtime (!!!!) story] > > Are you crazy? You want Nina to hunt me through the forests and then > > lock me for 300 years in a 1500ÁC hot sauna? ;-) > LOL > You forgot the flesh-eating ants on the floor finding they way up.... Nooooooooo, too late, I'm half! I guess that was the end of the this version of Nick. Never mind, perhaps that was an... upgrade, considering my weight ;-) Suomi people and their efficient methods for health ;-) ==== > I am currently in Cal III and once again behind the curve in my '49g > studies. Aha, it was *that* curve you were behind??? ;-) > I am trying to graph the following helix: > r(t) = <3cos(t),4sin(t),1/2(t) > I am using the Ps-countour, but never seem to get any resonable curve > out of it. I have used all manner of unusual bounds and eye points. OK, lemme see. First of all, I don't know if it is possible to draw a space curve using PS-Contour. I fake them using Pr-Surface. With this plot type you enter the list { '3*SIN(t)' '4*COS(t)' 't/2' } in the input field EQ: of the PLOT-SETUP screen. Enter t as independend variable. Then in the PLOT WINDOW - PR-SURFACE screen, enter the values for the view space of the plot. Set: Y-near to -5 Y far to 5 Z-low to -6.5 Z-high to 6.5 XE to -5 YE to -15 ZE to -10 Step Indep t0 20 Depnd to 1 Press the menu key [XXYY] to get the input fields for the range of the independend variable. Set: XXLeft to -6.5 XXRight to 6.5 We don't need to use YYLeft and YYRight since our parametric curve depends only on variable t. Press the menu key [ERASE] and then [DRAW] to let the HP49G draw the helix. It is not very appealing but you can see at least what looks like more or less. (With this setup you sit under the curve and look at it upwards, it winds counterclokwise.) > Could someone please do this and then tell me how? > I keep hoping that a calculus marathon will show up! :) Of course it will! I work on part 1 and I can't say exactly when it comes out, but it will show up. > How 'bout it Nick? (Again I love all your stuff!) Hope that you can get all curves you want now ;-) Greetings, Nick. ==== > > PS: There is always a rainbow after a heavy storm > > and what do you find at the end of the rainbow? > > That the stories about the pot with the gold coins are just hot air. > Maybe somebody should kidnap former ACO personell and force them into Ekei re! 8a kaneis ypologisth h 8a trws aiwnia fasolada sto ypogeio! Sorry for the greeklish grammars, I hardly have the opportunity to code messages this way. Greetings, Nick. ==== Hey this is really off topic but has any of you heard of Lifter Technology. If not do a web search you might find it very interesting. Stan ==== How do I install a .bin file on emulator. I can drag and drop it... but what do I need to do to install it . Aubrey. ==== > > Aubrey O'Callaghan schrieb im Newsbeitrag > > How do I install a .bin file on emulator. > > I can drag and drop it... but what do I need to do to install it . > RTFM;-) > > Seriously, there should be at least a small text file with your bin file. > Otherwise, just store it under a name. > > For more information : www.hpcalc.org > > Raymond Thks, Problem was I was trying to put a .bin file for HP48 on a 49g. Loaded the HP48 emulator and all became clear. I had RTFM'ed and Google searched before posting ! Aubrey. ==== > >> As a result of their over-reaction in this matter I now consider the > >> Free University Berlin to be run by a commission of idiots. > > > If such a rich and traditional company like Hewlett&Packard can > > afford to be run by marketing or public-relation experts, why not > > a university? > > The marketing or public-relation experts who are running HP have > ruined it. It no longer deserves to bear the Hewlett-Packard name, and > would best serve the public interest (and the memory of Bill Hewlett & > Dave Packard) by going out of business. There is hope on the horizon. > My point is that none of the comments made by Nick or anyone else here > made me have any negative opinion about the University (even though I tend > to agree with Nick more often than with you). But the way the University > responded to the situation (by cutting off your access to the newsgroup) > has given me a very negative opinion of them indeed. You may now understand what I mean with my sharp comments about the universities. Look at them! Look at that commission, which takes the opportunity to cut support by using methods that are unacceptable, to do that, but do they have the right? Exaxtly *such* unacceptable things are these which made me built-up my opinion. Take a look at Wolfgang and what he managed to do in the time in which he is here. No matter if I like or dislike him, no matter if I find his thoughts about programming good or bad, one thing I can't do: Saying that he doesn't do good work. Now, exactly because he has already shown more than once that he is able to do big thimgs, I argue with him: How can you, Wolfgang, take it, that this commission, which seems to not have much idea abou what you do, decides about your support, and And how can you still be loyal to those who already proved that they support according to fashions and not to work? Am I really wrong when I say that the current situation there is bad? Is this the good example that a free university should show to the world? And if I, Nick with my errors and failures, write any sh*t about anything, does this give the deciders up there the right to cut your support? Where have they seen that supporting somebody is based on reputation and not on work? Did they forget how much the greatest intellects cared about reputation - those intellects simply didn't bother! I may not like your thoughts, but I *want* to do anything possible in order to make them review their decision. And I'll do that, be it easy or hard! They must recognise that they either continue supporting you, or if they cut your support then because of real reasons and not because some half stupid like NK says what he says and thinks what he thinks. Again, how can I contact them? Nick. ==== > > As a result of their over-reaction in this matter I now consider the > > Free University Berlin to be run by a commission of idiots. > > If such a rich and traditional company like Hewlett&Packard can > afford to be run by marketing or public-relation experts, why not > a university? But this is not the point. The point is that internals > which concern only the NG (if at all) were spread over the internet, > to whom ever. It suffices to send it to somebody. Marketing people are > watching the internet, probably lesser newsgroups like this one. The Free Univesity A free university where you have to live in fear that somebody will with TNT? What about letters? Do they also read them? And what about telephones? Isn't the problem that that unfair commission simply violated all privacy rules? Isn't the problem that those educated people acted like spies? If we say that a burglar has the right to enter a house only because it is not locked, then we are on our way to a very bad world. > was founded by the Henry Ford Foundation in the > difficult years after WWII, surrounded by the iron curton. That's why it > has still the name Free. After German's reunion there it turned > out that a lot of people is interested in weakening the high rank of > this university, moreover in weakening everything which is or has been > too closely related to the United States in Germany. That you do not > take such points under consideration before telling here something > useful simply indicates your naiveness and uninformedness. > > - Wolfgang Wolfgang, could we talk a single time in peace? A single time! Afterwards we can can decide what we do next, but a single time in peace, is that too much? May I have some address of a member of that commission? How can I contact them? They must know that: a) The only one whose reputation could be in danger is *mine*! ANd my reputation is none of the universities business! b) You *have* to get further support. It is unacceptable that a person's (WR) support is taken away, not because that person doesn't do good work, but because some other person (NK - totally unrelated to the university) has opinions that the commission or anybody else dislike. This is plain simple unfair! Can I have some possibility to contact anybody there? Greetings Nick. ==== > > the same person that asked you to stop attacking me for each and > > everything I do, and you were the only person who got a cc. This is > > not spreading, this is sending. I will not be held responsible if > X > OK, Nick - my propotion: > to support the WR programs. The decision is way too harsh. > Why? > It also hurts the users of WR tools - us. It is a group punishment! > The comittee must have military (or alike) personnel in there. This is exactly my opinion and be it my fault, be it anybody else's, one thing is sure. People will be (indirectly) punished because I have. I can't let that happen. Nobody else than me should be punished for my opinions. (The question why somebody has to be punished at all for some certain opinion is another story, which presumably has to be answered by that commision.) Perhaps some clarifying words before my suggestion. The whole sad situation between me and Wolfang has created the impression, as far as I can see, that I don't admire his skills. This is not true. The only thing that I would demand would be, Wolgang to accept that there is enough room for everybody to play around with the machine and report about that. Live and let live. I still would be not only happy but really totally entusiastic, if Wolfgang would tell me about my errors and mistakes, in a constructive and not ironical way. I have no reason to insist that something is right if he explains me why it wrong. In this way there could be a small chance to do good for everybody. Having said that, I really can't understand what commision this must be, that thinks that the reputation of the university could be damaged. If somebody gets a bad reputation here, then this is exclusovely me and not the university of Berlin, and much much less Wolfgang. *I* am the guy that has a certain opinion about the status quo in Germany, and I will not accept that anybody else has to be punished in whatever way because of my thoughts. Wolfgang, if you read this, could you please give me the address of somebody at that commission? I would like to communicate with them, and tell them that they are not only wrong but also totally unfair in this case. Because I expect Wolfgang to read this, could anybody tell him about? IF I manage to somehow convice the commission of the fact that this is unfair, then I hope that normality will return to this group, even if the political climate between NK and WR is still icy. If not, well, then this will be a very good indicator for the fairness and intelligence at some commissions of universities, I tell you. Though I still don't understand, why a private verbal fight had to be hacked and reported to commissions and deciders. > PS: I don't know enough to say whose fault is what AND > that is not as important as it is for all of us that WR continues. > Nick, in spite of the fact the you did NOT know > how far this thing would go and what hights it would reach > even if you had/have the right to defend yourself > I think you ought to apology & forgive - just to make things right. You are right! I am willing to do that if there is understanding from both sides. But I still have to contact somebody at that commission. This is far nore important. Wolfgang *has* to be further supported. > During the past years (millenia?) I have pissed you off more than once. > This was never my intention. Clearly our chemistry don't fit AND > I have also been very stupid > I sincerely apolygy once again. > Veli-Pekka Nousiainen I told you that you spread good vibrations, now perhaps you know what I mean. Greetings, Nick. ==== About polarity. If you open the battery case at the seam (instead of lifting the central clip), youÇll find polarity marks inside the case. Also, there are many reports of using alkaline, lithium, nicad and nimh batteries - looks like all are ok. What is not advisable is using the recharger, whatever battery you use, as recharging circuit can damage the calculator if batteries go bad. Do you really use it on a daily basis ? HavenÇt you considered retiring it, and replacing with something newer ? Renato ==== I have been using 2 x AA Nicad without any problems in my HP25. I snapped off the middle bit of plastic of the holder, and then you can wriggle the old batteries out and replace them with 2 AA Nicad. Make sure you note down polarity before taking them out; once they are out you have no markings to help you remember the correct polarity. I would not recommend NiMh - they have a slightly higher voltage, and I don't think it's a good thing for the calc... Kris > > I was wondering what type of NiCad on NiM hydride batteries I would > need for my old HP-25C. It still works, with the battery pack in and > the charger plugged in, but the battery pack won't hold a charge. > What is more amazing is that the battery pack has not corroded. > Harold A. Climer > Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy > U. Tennessee at Chattanooga ==== > I checked both, and both fail (return 0). I had tested mine with 11! to > just sanity-check it. I think that's because 11! is 39916800, while 99! > is 9.33262154439E155; I blame the scientific notation. I have tested > with all numeric modes. my formula works well in CAS mode. In the HOME screen, you must use XQ to get the exact integer. Try in the HOME screen: 99! vs XQ(99)! Axel ==== zaurus is a PDA that came out in 2002. it is made by sharp co. http://www.myzaurus.com/ there are a lot of software available because it runs linux (many math/scientific software runs on the zaurus by now). it looks like www.amazon.com sells it for $300 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000063D6E/qid=1045383201/sr=8 -1/ref=sr_8_1/103-1601350-9499806?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846 maxima is a program: http://maxima.sourceforge.net/ > Which Zaurus? Give an URL! How much $$$? > What is Maxima? $$$?? ==== i guess it is exact. i haven't bothered verifying it. if you want i can output the result to a file (a lot of numbers) and post it here. it is the same program as the PC but compiled for a different processor. or you can download the PC software for free to make sure the answer is exact :) http://maxima.sourceforge.net/ > > > I was wondering why it would take so long, mine does it in just under a > > > second with Maple 8 ;) > > well, my pocket PDA asistant does 9999! in 1.46 seconds > > showtime:true; > > 9999!; > > Evaluation took 1.46 seconds (1.48 elapse) > > it is a sharp zaurus and it runs maxima ;) > > Exact result? ==== I'll take your word for it :) i guess it is exact. i haven't bothered verifying it. if you want i > can output the result to a file (a lot of numbers) and post it here. > it is the same program as the PC but compiled for a different > processor. or you can download the PC software for free to make sure > the answer is exact :) http://maxima.sourceforge.net/ > > > > I was wondering why it would take so long, mine does it in just under a > > > > second with Maple 8 ;) > > > > well, my pocket PDA asistant does 9999! in 1.46 seconds > > > > showtime:true; > > > 9999!; > > > Evaluation took 1.46 seconds (1.48 elapse) > > > > it is a sharp zaurus and it runs maxima ;) > > Exact result? ==== > And does [using TEVAL] take display time into account? The screen is actually redrawn only after TEVAL > exits back to the eternal system outer loop X LOL ==== > > Geia sou! > > Ayjanesuai kai plyuhnesuai, kai katakyrieysate ton kosmon. > Re tvra jerv TESSERIS (me ton NK PENTE!) xrhstes HPcalc sthn Ellada! > (Me emena EJI!). Geia! Tora mporoume na kanoume kai fan club :-) > > I recently bought a 32SII and I must admit... > You have a general number for the price? (Sto peripoy.) To 32SII eixe peripou 85 Euros otan to phra ego, alla apo tote den xero an exei allaksei h timh tou, an vevaia exoun apomeinei alla 32SII's. To 20S tha einai sigoura apanthsoun poly syntoma. > > This goes to all the Greek HP fans out there! > Keep it down! Don't let them hear you! :) Kala! Kala! Sorry! ;-) Alex Markatis Civil Engineer GREECE ==== > > Geia sou! > > Ayjanesuai kai plyuhnesuai, kai katakyrieysate ton kosmon. > Re tvra jerv TESSERIS (me ton NK PENTE!) xrhstes HPcalc sthn Ellada! Stin Ellada den eimai men, :-( alla tin exw stin kardia mou. :-) > > This goes to all the Greek HP fans out there! > > Keep it down! Don't let them hear you! :) Poly arga, mas pyran prefa! Geia xaradan, Nick. ==== > You could edit a basic DEFined function to include more variables... > F1=X^2 > DEF > F1(X)=X^2 > EDIT > F1(X,Y,Z)=X^2+2*Y-LN(Z) but I found no way to edit a DEFined function on the 40G: If you go into edit mode (VARS -> EDIT) you get your function as a UserRPL-program (!). Even if you don't edit the formula you get an Invalid Syntax error after quitting with OK. Maybe JYA could comment here?! Axel ==== This is a puzzle for newbees. Just guess who are the 3 senders X,Y,Z below. Everything is quoted in original from a recent thread. To make it easier I'll give some hints afterwards. X: a*b*c*..=EXP(LN(a*b*c*..))=EXP(LN(a)+LN(b)+LN(c)+..) Y: A new trick that I never thought of !! There is always Z: Indeed great! Many thanks also from me ...! Here the hints: X is some physisist who daily operates with mathematics. He didn't intend to reinvent the wheel but just to remind on some fact used by mankind since more than 400 years, even before Newton (Briggs, Neper Y is somebody who probably does not use math the whole day. Hence, him should be forgiven because he is humorous and self-ironical, although he sometimes first posts and then thinks. hence one should assume that he is familiar with logarithms and their properties. But it turns out that he has seen a great new mathematical suffocate some day in the flood of his witty contributions. But be careful: he caches his insidiousness under a cloak of exaggereted politeness. If you dare to say the truth about him he may revenge himself with spreading even the worst defamations over the internet. What X is talking about is just a simple application of the formula (1) log_b(x*y) = log_b(x) + log_b(y) (x,y positive reals, b = base). which you probably know although logarithmic tables are not anymore in use. The base b may be any positive real distinct 1. A common choice is b = e (Euler's number), b = 10, and occasionally b = 2 (logarithmus dualis). Even the simplest slide rule is using this trick of reducing mulitplication to addition. You may use also the bundle of exponential functions to express the same by (2) b^(x+y) = b^x * b^y (x,y any reals). The moral of the story: If you as a newbee are slightly more ambitious, be careful to whom you are listening to. Try to find out who are the ones giving you advices on the base of experience and knowlegde about the calculator... - Wolfgang ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PS. An elegant and very short, though fairly abstract derivation of (1) is due to the great logician and mathematician Alfred Tarski (from Poland, later in Berkeley/Cal). Tarski showed in 1936 that there exist - up to isomorphism - one and only one continuously ordered group G and for any any nontrivial a,b from G there is precisely one automorphism of G which maps a onto b. Now, since the additive group R_+ of reals, and the multiplicative group R_* of positive reals are obviously both continuously ordered groups, they *must* be isomorphic. Hence, we may define the real function x |--> log_b(x) simply to be the (unique) isomorphism from R_* to R_+ which maps b to 1. That's all. The rest is trivial arithmetic. If Leibniz and Newton would have seen this deep and elegant argument, they would have jumped up and embraced each-other, crying loudly This is indeed the best of all worlds!. ==== Dear professor Please, STOP, before it is too late! You are damaging this NewsGroup by initiating an auto-destruct sequence not only for your self but also for people who read your posts and get the wrong idea about others and this group in general! We have had enough recently with so many senior writers going completely insane and engaging into bitter meaningless egotistic bullshit over trivial stuff. PEOPLE COME TO YOUR SENSES! THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS RIGHT NOW AROUND YOU - WORLDWIDE - THAN YOUR SILLY QUARRELS! Let us be friends again, pleeeeease, :-) !Demeter! ==== > Dear professor > > > We have had enough recently with so many senior > writers going completely insane and engaging into > bitter meaningless egotistic bullshit over trivial > stuff. > I second that heartily. Too many of the so-called debates serve no purpose other than to create more bad feelings. Some of it seems to be on the level of schoolyard name-calling. Bill ==== Well... I'm new here, so I don't have a clue as to personalities. But I'll wade in here.. maybe it'll do some good. No one has anything to gain, especially the poster, by bringing this stuff up.. it just makes him look bad. It's possible that the poster had the rug pulled out from under him by the University because he can't ignore the people he thinks are idiots and take the noble (silent) route... FWIW... Al... > This is a puzzle for newbees. Just guess who are the 3 senders X,Y,Z > below. Everything is quoted in original from a recent thread. To make it > easier I'll give some hints afterwards. ==== > This is a puzzle for newbees. Just guess who are the 3 senders X,Y,Z > below. [snip a lot of crap!] any value at all with this bickering. What's wrong with being a newbee? Have you never ever seen anything, that you technically knew in advance, but didn't think of at the time? NK doesn't state that he didn't know about the logarithmic properties, but merely that it hadn't occured to him to use these properties in that files, it doesn't mean they are masters of what they write about. I've never seen NK state that he is indeed a guru on math. Is it in you opinion forbidden to learn while you write something? Is it connected to some sort of disgrace not knowing everything off hand? Stop judging what other people should and shouldn't be ABLE to answer - I of course knew the logarithmic property in question here, but I was delighted to see it used in such a simple way to solve a problem that initially seemed like a smart heuristc method should be applied. That's how math surprises me still - what fun would it be to know all the answers? In your opinion, it seems, when a child has learned the concepts of addition and subtraction, that child should also be able to apply these concept on set theory and differential equations? Technically, 80% of your recent posts are OT. I'll urge you to lighten up and stop hacking on in your view lesser persons, or else you'll shortly wind up in MY killfile. ==== > What's wrong with being a newbee? Have I ever said something is wrong with beeing a newbee? I think I an advice to ambitious newbees, just to be careful in choosing whom they are listening to. What is wrong with this? According to Nick, my tools reduce the sales rate of HP49 because I'm going byond UsrRPL and expect the same from everybody. The contrary is true and you know it well. Almost all my tools are explicitely aiming at supporting people not familiar with SysRPL and making the life on the HP49 easier and more efficient. I'm not talking here on his trial to offend German universities and their representants. A nobody like he makes himself at most ridiculous with this. > NK doesn't state that he didn't know about the logarithmic properties I must say I'm disappointed hearing your defense of somebody, well guess you can read in original. I assume you read also the thread I was refering to. It was asked whether there is a command, Pi say, which works like Sigma, i.e., reading a sequence of possibly symbolic terms a_n and evaluating the the product from a lower to a given upper bound. Did he anything contribute here? IMHO, he should have realized that a reduction to Sigma via logarithms will hardly work. In the numeric case it doesn't pay anyway to go this way because of rounding errors. One can do this in a different way. I prepared already something, but after your post I lost any motivation to continue with it ... > ... or else you'll shortly wind up in MY killfile. Doesn't pay :-) Your post makes it easier to disappear deliberately. ==== > it doesn't pay anyway to go this way because of rounding errors. One can > do this in a different way. I prepared already something, but > after your post I lost any motivation to continue with it ... Instead of wasting time pointing out biased opinions unrelated to the post, how about we work together to figure out this mystery of PI? Please continue on that different way you were preparing. It is like the mystery of the empty error box when you take the limit of an inequality expression... ==== > > Is it possible for somebody to send me plain text versions (or > anything that can be viewed from a text-only terminal) of NK's > marathons? > > Alexandros. I can send you the text only versions but what about formulae? As they are actually graphics they will disappear. Do you perhaps have any graphics viewers available? Or do you want them in plain text (like a+b) ? Greetings, Nick. ==== > It's more like ``Alexandros'' or ``Alekos'' :-) , but that's a technicality (Alexis and Alexandros are two different names). I don't really mind being called ``Alexis'', and some people (notably the late[*] Tsiros) call me that way. > I can send you the text only versions but what about formulae? As they > are actually graphics they will disappear. Do you perhaps have any > graphics viewers available? Or do you want them in plain text (like > a+b) ? As plain text as possible. E.g., f(x) = e^x. I'm totally lacking graphics support in the console I'm at, and unfortunately can't print the (more or less) 300 pages. the conversion. [*] In terms of NG participation, not (knock on wood!) of life participation :) . -- Alexandros Andreou, ee4299 at ee.teiath.gr. Undergraduate student, Department of Electronics, TEI of Athens. ==== > a way to get rid of the dust is to push the display-cover out. > Gasp! Take it *apart*? Really? Should I notify the Vatican that I'm going to do this? Okay, here goes.... Hmmm. I huffed and I puffed and I pressed and I pressed, and it refused to budge. My 49 is a recent Chinese model, so maybe they used better stickum. Bill ==== hi Bill, sorry to hear it didn't work for you. [joke] i heard the story of a guy dropping his PDA in a toilet. he put it in a sock and started spinning it in circles to get the water out. maybe you could try the same :) good luck > > > a way to get rid of the dust is to push the display-cover out. > > > > Gasp! Take it *apart*? Really? Should I notify the Vatican that I'm > going to do this? > > Okay, here goes.... > > Hmmm. > > I huffed and I puffed and I pressed and I pressed, and it refused to > budge. My 49 is a recent Chinese model, so maybe they used better > stickum. > > > Bill ==== > > Bill, what do you mean with display cover? Is that the plastic over > the glass of the display, or do you mean the glass of the display > itself? it's not all bad news - if I tilt and tap just the right way, like those little puzzles with the metal balls in them, I can use the dust Bill Make the Best of It Markwick ==== > > > > Bill, what do you mean with display cover? Is that the plastic over > > the glass of the display, or do you mean the glass of the display > > itself? > > it's not all bad news - if I tilt and tap just the right way, like > those little puzzles with the metal balls in them, I can use the dust ROTFL, thousands separators! Mwahahahahahahahhhh! > Bill Make the Best of It Markwick Yeah, if you can't get rid of it, simply use it! (The greek way :-)) Still laughing... there are ways to remove that plastic cover, but this can damag the calc. All documented at hpcalc. Greetings, Nick. ==== > > > > You should have choosen a HP20S. > > > > I already have a HP48GX, a HP48G+, a HP32SII, and purchased the 20S > > just because it is a nice little HP calc. > > The 6S is not made by HP. :-) > > Do you have a feature comparison between the 20S and the 6S? I think of > getting a cheap calc for the places where my 49G isn't supposed to go. The HP site no longer lists them, anyway you can still find tables with the features of both the calcs on www.classiccalculators.com. In any case, I think the 6S is of no interest for HP fans. It isn't an HP at all. > > There is a slight problem, though... The 20S costs about EUR20 in the > only place in town (or should I say `country') that carries it[1]. It's a good price. I purchased it in my city for 58 EUR. Well, its keys feel like the HP32SII keys rather than the HP48's. I know because I have those calcs too. ;-) -- Rupert, Bologna, Northern Italy, EU. ==== > > Sorry man, I didnÇt saw the mistake that I made when I sent the > binary from my Hp to my pc, I'll try to fix the files... > > DanieL. Thats cool, hey, i was wondering if you made any other basic chemistry programs... Saves a lot of time on those tests. A nice program would be one that you put in the atomic number and get as a result the electronic configuration in... whatcha call it in english... (blah, ill just say it in spanish: Representacion por Casillas). I made one of thos in user rpl... but it was a little to slow... AC ==== > Do you get weird numbers when you download it, or when you attempt to run it? > What are the numbers, incorrect results or strange unintelligable characters? Yeah, the program is stored as a string. I guess it was made with HP User edit, its a PC program that uses those weird chars to send the program to the emulator as a string. I think that the author didnt even take the time to delete thos chars and store the program as a program. Oh well. working version of the program that he translated from the 48 version with some cool program. The point is, it works perfectly on the emulator, but it crashes in the calculator. Same rom version (19.6). Anyone got any ideas on that problem? ==== I just got a 48GX, and was thinking about buying a memory expansion. There is a lot of good information about it at hpcal.com, but I would like > to know of someone's personal experience with the non-official cards. Specifically, I would like to know if any of you used the Klotz Electronic's > cards or the Cynox cards. I bought 2 Cynox cards and one went bad. They were good about replacing it but since I'm in Texas and they're in Germany it took a long time. When the replacement also turned out to be defective I gave up. I really only needed one and the other card worked just fine. I'm still using it several years later. If I was buying a card today I'd probably try another outlet if the price was similar, just to be safe. But I'd buy from Cynox again before I'd pay the high prices for the HP cards. I suspect I just had some bad luck. Others have used their cards with no problems. Barry ==== > > and got me hooked. > Bill :-) ==== > directory 'My Documents' and then in Emu48CE pressing edit->Load > Object... > By the way, I think that the version in > http://personales.ya.com/leobueno/soft/ is more recent that the one in > HPcalc. > ==== yep that's it....thx. JJ schrieb im Newsbeitrag > > I lost my manual and I forgot how to set the display > > mode back to standard from inside a program... > > thx. to all for any help =) > > STD for more info & manuals: www.hpcalc.org Raymond ==== Maybe they'll make more, but if they don't - I may go down in history as the person who bought the last 49g calculator directly from HP from their web site. It was not displayed in HP shopping where HP48GX is. I went there through a link from some site I don't remember any more and I couldn't retrace my steps ever again. Yes, it was bought directly from HP. MG ==== > Maybe they'll make more, but if they don't - I may go down in history > as the person who bought the last 49g calculator directly from HP from > their web site. > > > It was not displayed in HP shopping where HP48GX is. I went there > through a link from some site I don't remember any more and I couldn't > retrace my steps ever again. Yes, it was bought directly from HP. > > MG The last HP49G? You mean, now they don't have them any more? Hey could that be evidence for a successor? Greetings, Nick ==== > I left out one of the numbers it seems. The power is 11. > > 15^11 IREMAINDER 23 gives a different result if the 15^11 is in a list > of 1 or more terms. Confirmed. If 15^11, that is 8649755859375 is on stack level 2 and 23 on stack level 1, then IREMAINDER returns 22. But if {8649755859375} is on stack level 2 and 23 on stack level 1, then IREMAINDER returns {4}. Before I start panic I ask everybody: Does IREMAINDER interpret its argument in some different way if they are in lists? Is there any intention behind this behavior? Anybody out there? Greetings, Nick. ==== > I've still a couple of days. Let me try to explain the bug and why it > will be difficult to fix. One has to look what x* (the x just indicates > that it is a UsrRPL command) really does with 2 zints which starts with > CK2&Dispatch which is still somewhat more involved than CK1&Dispatch > explained to us in detail by Jonathan B. It starts as follows: [long explanation snipped] Why { 1 } 2 * gives { 2. } has nothing to do with how the CAS handles polynomial or zint. This is all due to list processing. The way list processing was introduced in the HP48GX was inside the dispatcher code CK*Dispatch. You surely know that if you create a code that is just checking wether the arguments on the stack are two reals, even so you are testing reals you could still put a list containing reals on level 2 and a real on level 1 and your code will still work and perform list processing. The way the dispatcher code works before performing list processing is: 1st step: Check that the arguments on the stack are matching the list of argument types. 2nd step: if 1st step failed (no argument was matching the list of allowed types), the tagged arguments on the stack will be de-tagged and it will try again If 2nd step failed then an external program will be called if one of the argument is a list. That's where list processing is performed. As you can see, if you get to the 3rd step and the argument on level 1 was a tagged object, when you got inside list processing the element would have been de-tagged first. On the HP49 when the new ZINT type was introduced, there was no much point of going through all the entry points and make sure they could handle reals and zint at the same time, as most of the time a ZINT instead of a REAL would be used. So just inside the CK&DISPATCH a new step was introduced after the 1st step. If no argument on the stack matched the list of allowed types and if the arguments were a ZINT, then the ZINT will be converted into a real and the usual process of the DISPATCHER would keep going. So let say on the stack you have: 2: { 1 } 1: 2 And you call '*' (multiply) The multiple code accepts either: -2 reals -2 symbolics -1 real, 1 symbolic -1 symbolic, 1 real To speed up the code dispatchee for two zints were added (it was not in ROM 1.05), so it also accepts: -2 ZINTS (which are also symbolic object) As you can see, this code doesn't handle list (and it doesn't have to as list processing is performed automatically by CK&DISPATCH) So back to our example we have: 2: { 1 } 1: 2 You press * 1st step of CK&DISPATCH will fail as the code doesn't handle explicitly list. 2nd step, convert ZINT into reals (just in case the code didn't specifically handled zint) So now on the stack you have: 2: { 1 } 1: 2. As there is still a list on the stack, the 3rd step will still failed. When list processing is launched, you now have a real on the stack instead of a ZINT, so after list processing you will get: { 2. } List processing never gets to see a zint... Werner Huysegoms found a way to solve this issue by adding a generic dispatcher at the end of the code, unfortunately, this solution would require to move all entry points loosing binary compatibility for UserRPL program.. Writing this just gave me an idea on how to have a fix allowing list processing to work with zint too. If during the 1st step the dispatcher sees that the code have an handler for zint, then no zint to real conversion will be performed. Most of the code that requires list processing will work. Unfortunately, it will break some features like if you code is something like: CK&DISPATCH Zintzint exe1 Realreal exe2 Zintreal exe3 Then if you have realzint on the stack it will not work as it works now. I wonder if this is really an issue ==== > Why { 1 } 2 * gives { 2. } has nothing to do with how the CAS handles > polynomial or zint. This is all due to list processing. ... Yes, according to what I learned from JB I could have confirmed that by myself by making a rompointer from the program :: CK2&Dispatch 17 %* ; JKH's workarond (Perform 1 ->LIST before running the desired function) works in his example but not for a list of size > 1 in level 2. Here a provisorial and fast workaround for multiplying any list of zints with a zint element-wise, with FPTR^QMul: << {1 2 3 } 4 FPTR^QMul >> results in { 4 8 12 } as expected. Arguments order doesn't play any role here: << 4 {1 2 3 } FPTR^QMul >> yields { 4 8 12 } as well. And 3 4 FPTR^QMul yields 12 as expected, also in approx mode. Moreover, if the above numbers are reals, the resulting list contains reals. Don't crucify me for that the above programs are not totally UsrRPL, but with lib 256 or OT49 the normal user can easily give FPTR^QMul a global name (which it seems not to have in plain UsrRPL). It is used, e.g., by MULTMOD. - Wolfgang ==== > So back to our example we have: > 2: { 1 } > 1: 2 > > You press * > 1st step of CK&DISPATCH will fail as the code doesn't handle explicitly > list. > 2nd step, convert ZINT into reals (just in case the code didn't specifically > handled zint) > So now on the stack you have: > 2: { 1 } > 1: 2. > > As there is still a list on the stack, the 3rd step will still failed. > When list processing is launched, you now have a real on the stack instead > of a ZINT, so after list processing you will get: > { 2. } > > List processing never gets to see a zint... > It's been a while since I looked at it, but couldn't you simply reserve the ZINT-> real conversion as the *fourth* step? So.. 1. check the args, if no match-> 2. detag, check the args again, if no match-> 3. list processing (that will dispatch each argument with the original dispatch list, anyway), if no list-> 4. if ZINT, convert to real and dispatch again, if no match, Bad Argument Type I seem to dimly remember that for the dispatching in step three to work (meaning, add step 4 there as well), you needed to change CK&DISPATCH0. But, the ROM contains CK&DISPATCH2 as well that is not used anywhere and is identical to CK&DISPATCH0. So.. if you'd use CK&DISPATCH2 inside the Automatic List Handler, and change it so that it would convert ZINTs to reals in case of no match - that would work? I hope the above makes a bit of sense, it's written from (already failing) memory - I couldn't find the source code for the dispatching routines right away Werner ==== Automatic List Handler, and change it so that it would convert ZINTs >to reals in case of no match - that would work? >I hope the above makes a bit of sense, it's written from (already >failing) memory - I couldn't find the source code for the dispatching >routines right away Werner The automatic list processing code at ROMPTR E8 D uses EvalNoCK to evaluate the original routine that called Ckn&Dispatch when passing, in succession, each of the elements of the list(s) to that routine. Because of this, Ckn&Dispatch is already effectively using CK&DISPATCH1 when evaluating the original routine, and CK&DISPATCH1 itself does ZINT conversion. The problem doesn't lie in the list processing code but in the very beginning of the CKn&Dispatch code. If we decompile CK1&Dispatch for example, here is what we get (on ROM 1.19-6) : ( Please bear with the comments as I wanted it to be at least somewhat understandable to people who aren't familiar with this. ) GOSUB #207D2 * Save address of calling routine to * LASTROMWDOB. ( Save last command ) GOSUB #205DE * Set the DEPTHSAVE pointer to point * one level above the argument on the * stack. Also set LASTARGCOUNT to 1 * and save the argument to LASTARG1. * ( Save last arguments. ) GOTO #20AEC Here's the decompilation of #20AEC : ST=1 5 * Signal that automatic list * processing should be allowed. GOTO #20B37 And the decompilation of the beginning of #20B37 : ST=1 6 <--------- ST=1 4 * Signal that tags can be stripped * from the arguments. . . . The critical step which causes automatic list processing to be defective for ZINTS is the line with the arrow. This signals that *it is ok to attempt to convert the arguments to ZINTS before automatic list processing is done* . All that needs to be done to correct this is for the original CK1&Dispatch code to jump to a routine that sets ST.5, *clears ST.6*, and then *jumps past* the ST=1 6 at #20B37. Now, I'm not sure if there's enough room left in the ROM to accommodate this change without affecting the addresses of supported entries. If not, then I think we have little hope of correcting this problem. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== I'm working with error-tracking as an option for my longfloat library ( arbitrary precision library), and was hoping to get some advise and comments. I'm considering the use of a list with longreal and error. For general function evaluation: 1st order (or perhaps sometimes 2nd order) differential, for interpolating ( estimating) the error: x = x0+ err f(x)= f(x0) + D(f)/Dx * err = f(x0) + err2 and some additional range checks and sign checks within error intervall, depending on function. Further, all basic arithmetic will be correct with regard to error interval. Thus I'd be able to issue warnings for low precision / wrong results, and indicate the order of the correct digits. This kind error tracking would have relatively low computation costs. , however the error would only be an estimate, one would not have absolute error bounds. Description of implementation follows below. Do anyone think this implementation would be of any use? Gjermund Skailand PS automatic translation between deg/rad/grad have been included. Implementation details: Specification: 1, The number and error is kept together. 2, The user should be able to see the numbers without any additional displaying commands. 3, Preferably it should be embedded in an object type which has its own dispatchtype. 4, Error calculation is performed using %%longreals I have chosen to use a longreal and %%real for error and put this in a list. Drawbacks: 1) This restricts the range for longreals to the same as %%reals. An relative error <1E9999 is converted to 0.0 2) Prohibits automatic listprocessing ( even if its not implemented today.) -------- let A be a list { Af, errA} with precision tracking let Af be an number ( multiple precision number) let errA be a longreal %%number Define DIGITS to be number of digits in longreal mantissa, user defined arbitrary number. Define A as Af * ( 1 + (+/-errA)) Define Al = Af * (1-errA), lower value Define Au = Af * (1 + errA), upper value Thus errA is sort of relative error User may change DIGITS precision in a chained calculation, however, on input to a function, the exact value is considered be within the error bounds. When integers are allowed, they are considered to be exact. Fast function have been implemented to convert longreal to %%real. For general function evaluation: B = f(Af) Then, to keep error tracking for a function use 1st order (or sometimes 2nd order) differential. ( is that the correct term?) 1) errB1= ABS( Af/Bf * D(f)/D(Af) ), calculate f' using %%longreal 2) errB2 = .5 * 10 ^( - DIGITS), if input were correct, then result would be within 0.5 of DIGITS precision. errB = max { errB1, errB2 } and include special checks depending on function. e.g. for division, give warning when sign( number - error) is different from sign( number + error) for sin and cos when input is huge, e.g. 1000 the actual input precision is 3 digits less after reducing to within +/- pi, and output precision must be reduced by 3 digits... ==== > hi NK, > > > > > > and then all goes like a bubble burst. poof! (into another bubble) > > > > Evidence for the foam structure of the universe? ;-) > > > or maybe the foam built-up in our brain ;) Yep! That's it! Mwaaahahahahah! > > > he he. wait for my revenge at the end ;) > > > > OK, I wait. > > > > > well, here goes mine (mean-little devil having fun. sorry for those > > > characters i victimize) > > > > Ha! It worked! That was the only reason for me to write my silly > > story. Just to make Rcobo write some of his really nice science > > fiction stories. Any chance for a continuation of the Mother of all > > TIs? > > > if you want, i could do a mini sequel for fun. but i don't know what will >cout << :) Yeah, go for it! > > BTW, do you have any relative whose name is similar to Assimov? ;-) > > > yes, a very distant one (4 thousand years?). maybe you are my relative too :) Hey, would that be stuff for the sequel? We are all relatives, our parents were..... :-) > > > five fictitious characters named R, N, V, J and W get stuck in an -- Dared snip the story, me unshameful person.. > > > the door opened and all went home. each of them continued to pursue > > > his dream. > > > > Bravo! Excellent! What a fantasy! > > > > Greetings and please, consider the possibility of publishing books. > > Nick. > > > > P.S.: The short dialogue is so good, that even W and N seem to > > perfectly match despite their verbal combat. Bravo! > > thanks for your goods words. i like yours too :) it... Greetings, Nick. ==== > (-; <-RPN smiley?! How could this smiley family remain uninvented so many years? I join you. Here another one C-: Greetings, Nick ==== Is it time for Silly Season? At least four of our senior, articulate users are flaming away at each other over topics that seem, at least at this remove, a bit vapourous. Since it appears to be global, I assume it wasn't terrorists dropping Nasty Pills into the water supply. Cosmic rays, perhaps? Bill ==== I almost put my 49G on the desk below the 19 iiyama monitor, when I remembered that the monitor has an automatic de-gauss circuit that gets activated every time the monitor is powered up. So, I got curious. Are the memory chips of the 49G affected by the momentary magnetic field generated by the de-gauss circuitry? I don't have the proper equipment to check whether a field is generated around the monitor, but I think that it'd be difficult (and expensive) to build something like that in a general-use monitor. (Oh, and does anyone h