A139 than I initially supposed, and I'm still not convinced that we've got to the bootom of it. > My guess is that it is not a multiplier but an additional four bits of > space to compute physical nybble addresses (when the word size is > greater than four bits) without throwing away the most significant > bits of the 64-bit integer. Might be, although unfortunately I don't clearly understand how that would help in addressing. Do you suggest that they would be sort of appended to the contents of the register to get the nibble address out of the number contained in it? What about the odd sized words (in terms of nibbles), or, actually, words that contain not a power of 2 number of nibbles? What about the floating point mode, how would that work then? And, additionally, the calculator always uses the absolute value of the index register, which, in my opinion, makes a straightforward application of those 4 bits more questionable still. > But the HP-16C index register hides even more puzzles:- If you examine the behaviour of the index register with different word > size settings, using ISZ to find out where it rolls over to zero. > This invariably happens at 2^64, not 2^68. So, these extra bits may indeed be special (see below, though). > Perhaps more interesting is to try this out in different complement > modes. You will find that ISZ never skips in unsigned mode, skips at > FFF...FFFF in one's complement mode and at 000...0000 in two's > complement mode. I guess this is correct behaviour. Absence of the skip in unsigned mode might indicate that we start incrementing those extra bits, and if they sit high instead of low, this loop could be very lengthy indeed. Hence I'm a little bit suspicious about the never above. In my opinion, this would match nicely the behaviour in 2's complement mode if those bits were used to represent negative numbers by prepending the 4 bits in question to the main 64 bits, and setting them accordingly, as the sign would most likely be propagated up. Admittedly, I'm not so sure about 1's complment, for, opposite to 2's complement, I've got no good feeling of how that works. I mean, I understand the maths, but it's not a part of my everyday practice, so I'd like to be more careful here. > Now see what happens if you change the complement mode after loading > the index register. If you experiment with a little program like: LBL A > ISZ > GTO A > R/S setting up the complement mode, loading a suitable value into RI > (FFF...FFFE or less), changing the complement mode and seeing where > the routine stops, you will notice even stranger behaviour:- * If you load RI in unsigned mode or two's complement mode and then > change mode before running the little routine above, the machine will > honour the mode that was in force _when_the_register_was_loaded_. * If you try the same trick loading the register in one's complement > mode and then switching to unsigned mode, the machine will execute the > ISZ instruction as though it was in two's complement mode. ... This is probably a bug... These are exciting findings, but I need a little bit more time to work out a good theory of what might be happening behind the wall. I think this might somehow be connected with the idea I suggested above, but I need some time to get it settled in my head. Let me get back to you once I get so far, OK? Alexander -- Dr Alexander Supalov Senior Software Engineer -------------------------------------------------------------------- //// pallas / A Member of the ExperTeam Group Pallas GmbH / Hermuelheimer Str. 10 / 50321 Bruehl / Germany Alexander.Supalov@pallas.com / www.pallas.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- <3E6F2D9F.8C1D9E43@pallas.com> <3E78855E.AE1483E8@pallas.com> <3E7AE4AA.C7442B34@pallas.com> ==== >These are exciting findings, but I need a little bit more time to work >out a good theory of what might be happening behind the wall. I think >this might somehow be connected with the idea I suggested above, but I >need some time to get it settled in my head. Let me get back to you >once I get so far, OK? This is pure conjecture but someone might think of a way of proving or disproving it. The index register serves two purposes - it can index a memory register or it can be used for indirect branching to a label. There are 16 labels allowed which fits neatly into the 4 extra bits. *Maybe* the label is stored in the four extra bits while something else happens (behind the scenes) in the main register - calculating the appropriate address in memory perhaps? Just a thought. -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== > We can use the calculators to count votes in Florida... Oh man, you are cruel ... way? I know Asnar is one of the greatest bastards in Europe, but I wonder what he expects in return for all his ass licking ... I fear he wants one of those aircraft carriers to bomb the Basque people. Jordi. PS: Did you know that my real name is Jorge? Franco's law didn't allow my parents to give a Catalan name to their son! Why did no one help us kill that bastard then? ==== PS: Did you know that my real name is Jorge? Franco's law didn't allow my > parents to give a Catalan name to their son! > But with current spanish law you have been able to change your name from Jorge to Jordi for more than twenty years now. The procedure is very easy an straightforward when you are just translating a name from a language spoken in Spain into another one. Hurry up! Don't be lazy! Aznar is about to forbid it again! ;-) ==== casio classPad300 versus Texas Instruments www.geocities.com/jaimezacalcs/casio/TIvsCASIOclassPad300.htm Jaime Fernando Meza ____________________________ ==== The complex number pairs as (r,angle) or (x,y) are restricted to numeric only. Please change to numeric first before combining to complex. You may like to use use Approx. and Numeric to key in complex numbers without entering symbolics. I'd like to enter a complex number in the polar form: (3*sqrt(2), angle_81.1 degrees) How can I easily do this? I can use ALPHA + RIGHTSHIFT + 6 81.1 to enter the second argument, but > HP49 won't let me enter the first. ==== > The complex number pairs as (r,angle) or (x,y) are restricted to > numeric only. Please change to numeric first before combining to > complex. You may like to use use Approx. and Numeric to key in > complex numbers without entering symbolics. Yes, I see now. Out of frustration, I went ahead and purchased the Urroz HP49g book. What a great help! It has already paid for itself. My HP49g is finally useful now. :-) -- Titus Barik (barik@ieee.org) ==== Nevermind. I feel a little silly now. I was able to install it onto my wife's PC. I should have tried that in the first place. I wish PC's had flag settings. The problem was the way I was using WinZip. I was unzipping the file and then moving them into a folder. Then I was trying to install Debug4x from there. On my wife's machine, WinZip gave me the option of installing Debug4x from there. I wasn't getting that option on my machine. I don't know why. Anyway, I tried running the Setup file straight from WinZip, and it worked. I guess it didn't like the fact that it was trying to create a file that already existed. Computers do weird things sometimes. Reading through my last few posts, I realized that I might sounded like I was complaining. I just wanted to mention that I do really appreciate people that are willing to write useful programs for free. Especially those who are willing to distribute those programs. I've heard horror stories about people that I wasn't percieved as being one of those. it! Hopefully if other people run into this problem, they will search the archives (yeah right) before posting. Then I'll be famous! --CS ==== it. The best way to get the oil flowing would have been to remove the sanctions and let Iraq sell all the oil they wanted. It all ends up on the world market anyway, whether sold by the Iraqi government or sold by the US after taking over Iraq. No difference that I can see. That said, I don't think the US has plans to run Iraq or steal their oil. We didn't do that in Kuwait in 1992. We shall see how it turns out this time, right? Also, given what the war will cost the US, it would take a LONG time for cheap/free oil to cover that cost even IF the US government set up shop on the Iraqi oilfields, which I do not believe they will do. My hope and prayer is that fewer people will die over the next year once this conflict is over than would have died had we not entered into this war of liberation, since many people have died in Iraq each year under their present/former government. Again, we shall see. I also noted that the coalition of the willing in this endeavor is now larger than it was back in the first gulf war. I find it interesting that many of the nations formerly under Soviet domination are supporting the effort. Forty-five countries are publicly committed to the Coalition, including: Afghanistan, Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Colombia, Costa Rica, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Georgia, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Japan, Kuwait, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Mongolia, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Palau, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Rwanda, Singapore, Slovakia, Solomon Islands, South Korea, Spain, Turkey, Uganda, United Kingdom, United States , Uzbekistan. While this list does not include France, Germany, or Greece, this doesn't look all that unilateral to me. :-) Since I have responded without any venom, I hope for the same from any other posters. I respect 's right to disagree with this viewpoint and hope my right is also respected. Now, can we get back to discussing calculator marathons? I enjoy those posts much better with you . :-) Gene -- * These statements and opinions are mine alone and CERTAINLY do not reflect my employer's views. * >>This* is one of the reasons why the usa feels, it is the cop of the >universe. I think the primary reason that the usa feels it is the cop of the >universe is that we did not get into the WWII fray as early as we >should have. That is one mistake we have no intentions of ever >repeating. *This* I can accept as an argument. And I thank you that you for > mentioning it. There is no reason to hide what everybody thinks but > nobody dares to say. But, Samuel, if this combined with the ability for intervention is the > reason, then never forget that what was the right thing to do at that > time, might (will?) prove devastating in our times. There are many > But: > 1) Hussein and the arabic world, especially the most fanatic > individuals will instrumentalize this war, as a reason for even more > terrible terroristic actions, whic I unfortunately have to expect in > the near future. As you could see in the last months, only a few of > the heads of the terroristic organizations were found. The big > bosses are still out there, presumably planing revenge. I don't see > any hopes that they would stop. Now, imagine what happens if the > arabic lands that are lightly pro west up to now, turn 180 degrees and > start sympathizing with those big bosses. > 2) The USA gov. at that time of the WWII accordingly to what is known, > didn't have any plans for enforcing its own interests, at least not in > that particular form that I can observe in the oil regions of this > world today. (If it already did at that time, then I am indeed more > naive than I thought.) It seems totally unacceptable to me, to use the > argumentation we free Irak while the real attitude is, to enforce > oil interests. If as you say there is a concern not to repeat the > mistakes of the past, then why is Tibet left alone? Why no action > against the chinise regime? Why not against Korea? The only answer > that I can think of is that nobody has found oil there (yet). >If the usa would attack one the way or the other, >> what was the use of the whole shitty comedy? The US really wanted UN support. The US did not get it. Do you >remember a few years back how the US had to go through NATO to get >Slobodan Milosevic, because Russia would not let us. Oh and where was >the monetary/natural resources benefit for going after Mr. Milosevic? There is another benefit here. But it will get too speculative, so I > take your advice and re-think about that case. Still, there are too > many cases of oppressive regimes which were/are supported by certain > usa governments and I can't say that this convinces me of good > intentions. > ==== < level-headed reply snipped > -Joe- ==== X > Forty-five countries are publicly committed to the Coalition, > including: > Afghanistan, Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Colombia, Costa Rica, > Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, > Ethiopia, Georgia, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Japan, Kuwait, Latvia, > Lithuania, Macedonia, > Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Mongolia, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Palau, > Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Rwanda, Singapore, Slovakia, Solomon > Islands, South Korea, Spain, Turkey, Uganda, United Kingdom, United States , > Uzbekistan. While this list does not include France, Germany, or Greece, this doesn't > look all that unilateral to me. :-) X Finland, Sweden, Island,..Hey! What about Norway? Why do you _always_ forget about the Scandinavian countries? ==== >This* is one of the reasons why the usa feels, it is the cop of the universe. I think the primary reason that the usa feels it is the cop of the universe is that we did not get into the WWII fray as early as we should have. That is one mistake we have no intentions of ever repeating. >If the usa would attack one the way or the other, > what was the use of the whole shitty comedy? The US really wanted UN support. The US did not get it. Do you remember a few years back how the US had to go through NATO to get Slobodan Milosevic, because Russia would not let us. Oh and where was the monetary/natural resources benefit for going after Mr. Milosevic? -Samuel Stearley ==== John, John...did you really have to quota all that crap??! > Fuck off you stupid piece of shit!!! > X ==== X > What about North Korea? There is no oil to steel in N-K... X > I think that if USA was responsible for massive genocide for the last 15 X USA is the only country in the whole planet and its history which has ever used nuclear weapon against another nation/state especially civilians in this case!!! AND that twice in a row! So Saddam has got it right: US of A is The Great Satan. Only that Saddam is his son.... ==== > X >What about North Korea? > There is no oil to steel in N-K... > X Bingo! Did anybody out there dared make a correlation between instability of regions of this earth and existence of oil in the neighbourhoud? If you do that you start suspecting that this can't be a coincidence. Either you accept that every land with oil production has insane people, or you accept that the instability *was and still is artificially created by means of dirty politics*. I accept the second hypothesis. >I think that if USA was responsible for massive genocide for the last 15 > X > USA is the only country in the whole planet and its history > which has ever used nuclear weapon against another nation/state > especially civilians in this case!!! AND that twice in a row! must wonder (also) about why it is the last 15 years that are > So Saddam has got it right: US of A is The Great Satan. If you mean the government, you are quite close. > Only that Saddam is his son.... So it is again bad against bad. But while one of them is quite well known as bad, the other one is missinterpreted as the good. There is no need for any heat up, if nobody identifies him/herself with the government. But if they do, then I must assume that there are still persons in politics on this earth that are taken as Gods. And this leads me to far far worse conciderations than what I can write here.. Bruce (who threw all Banners away to rubbish) . ==== I wish, I really wish I had means to pay that back to you, yunkees! > >Oh no, this time there will be no remorse! I will NOT apologize >for protesting against the usa tyranny. I'll keep HULKing >anybody who still has the face to answer this, saying that >the usa is right! AND I'll keep posting to this group >each and every case of the usa ignoring international >right. You got me green, now run for cover! > This is a great idea ! I think you should post this to 20000 other > groups too. There is an enormous potential for savings here. Just imagine > what could be done with all the cpu-cycles wasted today to keep track of > concentrated to one big pile of heated, ahem, discussion on current > geopolitical events. It would perhaps lead to better understanding because we could at last see the world through the eyes of other people, instead of accepting ad hoc that our view has to be the right one. > We who are neither Yunkees, nor interested in the not-so-balanced > arguments of the debate just have to go somewhere else, I guess. of course if you all members of the government, or identify with it. Should I suppose that? >Blasting the columns of truth to everybody! >Until you bomb me to keep me silent! I honestly don't think that the US military policy-makers finds that your > propaganda will have enough impact on the world to motivate allocation of > US tax-dollars to drop a bomb on you... 1) I *answer* propaganda with propaganda. 2) I know that nothing I do will ever have an impact, but this is not the reason for doing it. Do I have to explain the reasons? 3) The boundaries between serioucity and irony are not always sharp. Which I assume holds for usa taxes and bombs also... Does it??? Greenish . ==== The decision to post this after my long silence about such things has >two reasons. Since most of your on-post topics in this forum in the past have been > well thought out, I have to assume you have some sense of reason. You > HAVE NOT displayed it during this post. Assume whatever you have to. Only strange thing is why everybody has sense or reason as long as this sense is conform to the usa politics? Say no and you have troubles overnight?? >First reason is, I have already stated in the past that the shitty >freedom fighters of the world, the usa government, will attack Irak >no matter what Irak does. Great, you are name calling in only the second sentence of your > diatribe. Well, since I happen to take it personally, I'll respond. > You're a whining little worm. You are the worst kind of sniveling > wrong-headed idealogue with little courage to take action but > apparently lots of time and courage to mouth off. Sorry to disappoint you but I am no little worm. I am a big worm. As about courage: If you name courage to attack the (oh so heavily armed) Irak with this machinery of death, then we have different definitions of courage. As about the b and c weapons of Irak, I still wait but I don't see any. You think they have weapons but don't use them against the US army? Where are their terrible b and c missiles? Where is the rest of the weaponry? Why is Irak presented as the most heavily armed land *before* the invasion, but all these accusations are forgotten, when we see that it (almost) doesn't have any means for serious resistance? >This just happened! The second reason is >that particular naive people, who still believe that the usa is doing >this for philanthropy and humanity. Ha! The biggest dictatorship >of the world, accuses lands which look like amateurs in comparison to >it. Bush, perhaps because of his complex (they misunderestimated me, >what a clown!), had to do something to show us what a strong guy he >is. Braaavo Bush! Do you have anything else to show us? Yes, that we are just one nation among a few in the world with the > will, and ability to face this challenge. And by the way, your world > too will be a safer place because of it. But we've been saying this > all along so if you haven't got it by now, you probably never will. > You really do need to get a dictionary and learn the definition of the > word dictatorship. You will not teach me what a dictatorship is. I have leaved under such a regime for years, so forget the blah-blah about the usa being the land that saves people from dictators. If it were that way, we would have been helped as well. But unfortunately we don't have oil, so nobody did anything. (Pass my special thanks to the current government for this historical achievment.) Not to speak about China, about Korea and countless other dictatorships which are still promoted by the world power usa. (Of course with the small difference that these dictatorships are good dictatorships because they do as the master commands.) >The whole story, uncluding inspections, until now have proven two >things: a) Sucking hot air about b and c weapons of Irak. The so called > evidence was more a bad excuse for if we suppose that Irak > has the weapons, then we must be right. The presented videos > just show some guys working with barrels, some of them have > masks, while a couple of steps away some other guys just take > a walk happily in the middle of a so called c weapons industry. > Oh yes, we also saw some old abandoned buildings which of course > have to be b weapons production centers, just because the usa > wants it so. In Greece we have thousands such buildings, would > you please send some troups to bomb us? If we as a nation are Sorry to interrupt you here, I'll insert the above partial sentence below, in order to leave your text unaltered. But, I have to point out again, that you as a nation are not identical with your *government*, > If we as a nation are as bad as you are making us out to be, we > probably would have already. The fact is, we have not, and would not. So, continue this though and ask why it is so. You'll find interesting things, if you are consequent enough to accept that they happened and still happen. > You choose to believe Sadam does not have WOMD; we have significantly > more intelligence assets that you do, and believe he does. It is the > COMBINATION of possessing these weapons and a demonstrated propensity > to use them in a reckless way that makes a Sadam-led Iraq such a > threat. Is that really so hard for you to understand? Paparlapap! If someone has any evidence, then put it on the table and let us see. Instead of this the usa postponed tha presentation which was re-postponed and canceled and blah-blah for a long time, after which we saw more or less nada. This doesn't convince me about real possession of hard and undoubtful facts. > The amount of b and c > weapons of Irak is extremely low taken for itself, and even > lower compared to the destruction potential of the usa. How low is low? Is it low enough that you'd be willing to chance > having a few liters of anthrax released in your hometown? Low is low compared to the enormous destruction potential that the usa government is able to release. > If you're so > foolish to make this gamble, don't expect the rest of the world to as > well. We here in the USA as a matter of fact will not. Not any more. This is not gamble at all. Count the bombs thrown on Bagdad against them fired up from Bagdad. Where do you see gambling here? > Not after the attacks of 911. I am not trying to tie this operation to > the 911 attack any more that it has been in the past. I am saying we > view the world through fundamentally different glasses now. Do you? I would really be happy if you do, because it would be then, and only then, that you really know the consequences of the war for those people there in Irak, and also for us in the western world. I assume that you do, alone because of that terrible day. But if this is the case, you *must* be able to differentiate between what you want, and what the usa government does right now. > Has > anybody ever thought, to demand from the usa to destroy their > weaponry, or else take the risk to be bombed? In the past I have > received letters telling me that the usa has absolutely no > b weapons and that the inspectors do control everything. > And I should believe that the land where these things were > first developed, has no usage for them? Ha! Not only the usa > has such weapons but the investigations for making them better > run at the highest levels. Even if this isn't true and the usa > has no b and c weapons, I just don't see any difference between > dying from an a bomb, from a b or from a c bomb. The destruction > potential, be it of any kind, has nowhere/never reached the > degree of the usa weaponry. *This* is one of the reasons why > the usa feels, it is the cop of the universe. I'll stay at this > point for a while and do exactly the same like what the usa > did with Irak. I accuse the usa for possessing non-allowed > weapons. And you seriously feel threatened by this? Seek professional therapy. This is the ultimate demonstration of the we are right attitude. If you feel insecure because of Irak, you are right. (Of course!) If someone else feels insecure because of the usa government, then s/he must seek professional therapy. > Our nations share close ties(political and military); and I'd venture > to say Greece as well as the cause of freedom world wide has > benefitted form our playing cop. Either way, we don't really care if > you would rather us not play cop. We undertake this operation for OUR > protection. And you will have a safer world in which to snivel and > feel perpetually angry at us. And this is again the same old arrogance of the powerful. Alone the fact that you alone speak about our nations, shows what the main engine of your thinking is. > Most of the usa people out there are upset and either > tell me to go to hell, or keep on arguing that this isn't true. > I continue the same tune, you do possess such weapons. And > they continue the same excuses. You see what happens here? > You for yourself, usa, behave like the Irak government and just >tell > me that you don't have such weapons, while you are *NOT ABLE > TO PROVE THAT YOU DON'T POSSESS SUCH B AND C WEAPONRY*. If it > isn't obvious to you, then consider that it is mathematically > impossible to prove that you *don't* possess something. But >exactly > this is what your clown of a president demands from the Irak. You are a little man. 1.792m For you a whining little worm and a little man. For Wolfgang a terrorist. etc accept the right to not think like you do about the usa gov. > Are you incapable of intelligently making your > point about our president without resorting to calling him a clown? > Its clear that you are intellectually unable to put your rambling > incoherent thoughts into any kind of cogent order. Why should I? Do I have to expect a non-wormy characterisation then? > Militarily, we probably have the power to put the earth into a > perpetual nuclear winter. These weapons are the by-product of a cold > war which, you should be glad to know, we won. Its one of the reasons > you and I are not talking in Russian. And one of the reasons why the earth is talking english? > To even the most mentally > challenged student of history, it should be clear that we have > responsibly used this awesome power. To the vast majority of the > world, it is understood that we continue to. Don't you see, it is not > an issue of just posession of the weapons. It becomes a case for > preemption when an irresponsible party attempts to gain control of > weapons so powerful that tens of thousands can fall victim to a single > application. 1) You continuosly fail to recognize that it is *only* your definition of responsibility. I don't consider (to make just one example) Vietnam such a responsible usage of weapon. Anyway, this is not the point, and you like the rest of those who make me to a worm, still don't answer a single point of those I state. The point here is, that the usa gov insists possesing weapons but at the same time demands others to disarm. I am not completely naive to believe that Hussein would be so kind to possess weapons that he will not use. But this is not what I state, and you *do* know that. The point is that, in this case, an elephant accuses a moskito for being dangerous. > So, accepting your own politics, should I say: USA, you either > destroy your mass destruction weapon within a month, or the world > will bomb you!. What do you think? Do you find that funny? > I also received letters, telling me that the usa might have so > much military power but it isn't a dictatorship and it wants > freedom for everybody. Well, I'll tell you what I think. When > I see that there are even worse dictatorships on this world, > which the usa doesn't even talk about (China for example), I > realize how much the usa wants freedom for everybody. What are you doing about it? And what makes you think China is a > worse dictatorship than Iraq? It is only a couple of years since Tibet was invaded and Tibetans were massacred or had to flee. We forgot also the events some couple of years ago, on the square of the heavenly peace (or whatever the right name is) - did we? > Israel > has ignored uno resolutions since decades, but the usa never > mentioned any plans to attack that country. If a dictatorship > dances to your song, then you smile and let it be. If a > dictatorship does things against your interests, you wipe > it out. THIS IS YOUR REAL ATTITUDE COWARDS OF THE WHITE HOUSE!! Israel is not a dictatorship either. Are you really this stupid? I said: Israel has ignored uno resolutions since decades, and not Israel is a dictatorship. Besides, sometimes it depends who you ask. Go ask a palastinian, whose house was just blown up to pieces. Let us hear what he says. > You don't even think about droping a single bullet over Peking, > because you shit in your pants when you think about what the > chinese answer could be! Exactly what you did in the past, > when you only heard the two words: Red Army! Where were your > interest for human rights when the massacres in Tibet took > place? When the genocides in Armenia and Curdistan took place? > When the greek citizens were tortured to death from the > dictatorship that you brought to power supported for years? I thought you didn't want us to play the cop of the universe? It is > easy to question our courage by saying we'd be shitting in our pants > over the internet, isn't it? You know exactly how the above was meant, so don't de-focus from the real point of attention. If some government plays the brave heart in front of, as we can see, totally old fashion armed countries, but at the same time keeps silence in front of other real heavily armed countries, then this doesn't look so honest to me. > I'm guessing it'd be you with the shit > is his pants if you tried to say this to just about any person in this > nation's military. Don't worry, I already had the opportunity to be kindly questioned from such brave hearts at that dark time in Greece. I know what I have to expect. I tell you I didn't even got time to shit in my pants because those freedom fighters made a football out of me. Interesting to say that nobody knows who those guys were and where they are now. But these were the exceptions of a, so I think, more peaceful people that form the biggest part of the usa army. Anyway, you just told me that I must be very afraid in front of those people in the military. Did you? Apart from the fact that the greatest part of the soldiers are definitely not willing to hit unarmed people because they think what they think, it is not the army as an institution nor the soldiers/other persons which I refer to when I speak about shiting in pants, but solely the politicians, those who declare wars. The army is the instrument that has to do the dirty work, of *the politicians that failed*. > But you are in your safe little snivel cyber-land > where talk is cheap and the world is a better, safer and mostly free > place because of the US. Ha ha! When after some decades the whole world says yes master we are going to talk again about this. In heaven or in hell. > You don't want freedom for the nations, pretenders and betrayers, > you want everybody to obey your rules, that's all! Or else, you > would have attacked the USSR exactly like you attack Irak now. > But, ha! The USSR would presumably dustify you, and cowards > never attack when they know that they will lose! Except verbally over the internet where every delusional whacko like > you can malign at will with no fear of the truth or physical > retribution. A couple of paragraphs above you can find more about my physical retribution in the past. Isn't that enough retribution? > b) The whole theatre of inspections was only for the eyes of the > world, a comedy perfectly put in scene by the politicians of the > white house. If the usa would attack one the way or the other, > what was the use of the whole shitty comedy? Why did your > president even participated the uno discussions? If the attack > would happen, regardless non-existing evidence and regardless > what the uno says, what are you, usa, doing at the uno? You could > just pack it up and go, there's no reason to be there if you > discuss only when others accept what you say. Maybe we should. Except, wait, the UN is here..we can't leave. And, we > pay the bills too! Are you volunteering to host and pay for this > bureaucratic, ineffectual organization in your country? The last line of your paragraph is exactly the right description. But to your question: You don't answer what the reason is for the usa government to participate in the uno but still say we do what we want either way. Why the theatre then? >George W. Bush has started his war. Bravo again! What an achievement! >He >wants to remove Hussein, and put just another dictator to his place. >But a good dictator this time, a guy which will co-operate to secure >the oil interests of the usa in Irak. The same general against whom >the accusations exist, that he ordered the usage of c weapons in the >past! The betrayers and cretins of the white house show their real >faces >here. This was the second part of my first prediction, which stated >that the >dictatorship will not be removed. We will have a Hussein under a >different >name, that's all. Neither you or I have a damn clue what form a liberated Iraqi > government will take. I see that has not stopped you from ranting on. But I do have a clue. Many of the candidates were interviewed in public. (Except if the news just faked the interviews to manipulate our minds, which I consider unlikely but not impossible.) >Now I make another prediction, which you, usa-friendly guys out there, >will also ignore just as you ignored the first, pretending that nobody >has told that and covering this unfair story in silence: IRAK IS NOT THE END. AFTER IRAK THE SAME US IMPERIAL POLITICS WILL BE >CONTINUED. NEXT ONE COMES PAKISTAN OR IRAN. THE WHOLE WORLD IS WHAT >THE USA WANTS. YOU ARE THE DARK SIDE OF POWER. If we were in this war for imperialistic reasons, you'd soon see a new > 51st state. Sort of like what Sadam tried to do in '90 to Kuwait. In > fact, it will never happen. We probably could have annexed all of > Kuwait and most of southern Iraq back then. We didn't, did we? You didn't, the usa gov did! There are many ways to occupy a land. It is not only being present there. > We > won't this time either. We are not the dark side of power you freak, > we represent the brightest light of freedom. Iran or Pakistan will be attacked after a couple of years. Wonder what excuse you will find then. >must not >be anything else besides America. Alone the usage of the name >America >for what should be called usa, is in its essence the result of the >arrogance >of those who consider the 300 (or was it 400?) years of history of >this >land as the only existing culture. (Let it be said here: usa is NOT >America. >America is a whole continent with too many other lands and cultures, >which the >brain of your miserable president isn't able to grasp.) Are you really so petty to be upset about this as well? Are you really so petty to ask me if I am petty to be upset? >The total ignorance of non-usa interests and the egoistic behavior is >obvious: 1) Disprove any decision that banns atomic bomb tests >2) Not accepting the international criminal court >3) Not accepting the Kyoto Protocoll >4) DENYING TO ACCEPT THE B WEAPONS CONVENTIONS - Now, what an irony, > and you tell me that the usa wants to disarm a threatening country! Yes, to the last part of 4), that is. You're getting it! He is a > our generation. And you can bet he'd expand his empire into your > country in a heartbeat if he thought he could get away with it. This is speculation except for the Kuwait invasion. You can't just go invade someone because you *expect* him to invade someone else. Besides, this is not even the point. The point is that if we set a standard for measuring up goodness or badness, then please make it the same standard for everybody. >Should I continue? I think the above, especially point four >is enough to make the usa government turn red in shame. If it isn't, >then the usa government consists of people, whose capability to >tell right from wrong has been blasted out of theit heads. Continue? No, its time for you to crawl back into your delusional, > misinformed hole. My hole is delusional but not misinformed. It is rather delusional because it is much better informed than you think. > Stay on topic where you are highly regarded in this > group and if you must post such trash talk in the future, look for > groups like: > alt.groups.idiots.usahate.diatribes.rambling.usenetbravado.littlemen 1) Politics is always on topic. 2) How did you know that there was such a group? Did you participate in the past? >At the same time those weaker lands that don't want to obey the >criminal commands of the us, are targets for boycotting. The usa >put anybody under pressure that dares say no. What a love for >freedom they demonstrate here, really admirable! Even in your own dictatoric country, citizens of the usa, the >tactics of covering critics is now active! Even the Dixie >Chicks were wiped out of the lists of radio stations after >they expressed their dislike for what Bush started. What a >manifestation of democracy! If they were removed from radio stations' play lists, it was because > their opinions were unpopular, and improper to the majority of our > public. This alone says much about the political climate that the usa under Bush has to live in. > Their absence on the play lists is the result of the private > radio stations reacting to free market pressures in a open economy. Their absence is the result of a media world completely controlled by the governing administration. > Where is the political oppression here? You really don't seem to have > a clue about this, do you? I can remember some time ago when the news told us that the bad guys in the east block do this for forcing their one and only opinion. But if that happens in the usa, noooooooooooooooo, it's only a decision driven by the needs of the free market. There are many names for opression!!! >People like Clooney or Hoffman or Newman are impossible to >hide of course, but for the time being anything possible is >done, to prevent them from protesting in public! You watch too much of our TV apparently. They are actors, not > statesmen or mouthpieces for popular american opinion, even though > they often seem to think they are. This is not the point! The point is that (de facto) they are able to infuence a big part of society (fortunately or unfortunately). So they are screened off! >The land of the free is in reality the land of the slaves! >As long as what you want is what the us government wants, you >are allowed to be free. This is the freedom of a prisoner, who >can go where (s)he wants *INSIDE HIS PRISON*! You are an idiot. Really. Amazing viewpoint. I am tired of refuting > your senseless rants. You are not tired, but not able. >The pluralism of opinions in the media in the usa was replaced my blah > Banner, alias the HULK! This chip on your shoulder is likely to take years off your life. So it would be much better, you get one whining worm less. Isn't that what you want? > Really, you'll have a heart attack or a stroke early in life if you > continue to let yourself remain delusional, uninformed, and > perpetually rabid. If I didn't had that heart attack until now, I'll surely never going to get one. > I recommend that you enroll in some politically > neutral university (if there is such a thing) and take some history > and political science classes to get some perspective on this bent you > have. Good idea, would you recommend me one? Will it be in the usa? In europe? > Temper your rage with some facts (real ones!) and discussion. I wonder why any time somebody says something negative about the usa government, s/he is taken to say that in rage. Do we see any suggestive tactics here? > Intelligent opinions and viewpoints are never formed within such a > state of extremism and ignorance. But also not within a state of one sided political status quo. > You'll find things are not nearly as > bad as you see them. Ha! I would be happy to realize this but from day to day I can only observe that they are even worse than I thought. Though I still wish that I am extremely pessimistic/stupid and see everything bad, I don't have hope that things will prove to be better. May your words be right, but I doubt that. And exactly *this* is the reason that I don't believe anything anymore. > Failing that you could shut your whiny bitch ass up. tell me what to do with it? You say that to anybody who dares critisize the usa government? > God Bless America Certainly! But leave some blesses for the rest of the world. Or else it sounds rather egoistic. Besides, don't be sure that God exists, and don't be sure that in case God exists, God has nothing better to do than to bless human made empires, be them US, Irak or any other country. Presumably God has abandoned the project humans a looooong time ago. Greenish, . ==== < a lot snipped The ones really destroying UNs reputation this time was France and Germany. > What do you suppose a veto before the French knew what they were vetoing to > means? That's a spanner into the works for you. I don't agree on this point. France, Russia and Germany (China) just didn't want to sign a paper which leads directly to war. They had probably different reason for not signing it. But by signing this resolution there was _no_ other consequences than war. There was no way that Irak would (or better could) have accepted this second paper. Not signing the paper didn't stop the war either of course as we know today. But at least the UNO didn't say yes to a war which most of the people all over the world didn't want. But the UNO is of course weaker than it was befor anyway. < again a lot of stuff snipped Those who pretend to love and promote freedom were the same >who ordered espionage of our offices in Germany, France and >some other countries. (ECHELON you know??) > Do you have proof? Well it's well known (lets say there is much evidence) that these huge systems are (since the end of the cold war anyway) mainly collecting information about technology and economy related stuff (this might have changed a bit since 9/11). Listening polish mig-pilots talking with each other just doesn't make much sense anymore. Roman > ==== >This* is one of the reasons why the usa feels, it is the cop of the > universe. I think the primary reason that the usa feels it is the cop of the > universe is that we did not get into the WWII fray as early as we > should have. That is one mistake we have no intentions of ever > repeating. *This* I can accept as an argument. And I thank you that you for mentioning it. There is no reason to hide what everybody thinks but nobody dares to say. But, Samuel, if this combined with the ability for intervention is the reason, then never forget that what was the right thing to do at that time, might (will?) prove devastating in our times. There are many But: 1) Hussein and the arabic world, especially the most fanatic individuals will instrumentalize this war, as a reason for even more terrible terroristic actions, whic I unfortunately have to expect in the near future. As you could see in the last months, only a few of the heads of the terroristic organizations were found. The big bosses are still out there, presumably planing revenge. I don't see any hopes that they would stop. Now, imagine what happens if the arabic lands that are lightly pro west up to now, turn 180 degrees and start sympathizing with those big bosses. 2) The USA gov. at that time of the WWII accordingly to what is known, didn't have any plans for enforcing its own interests, at least not in that particular form that I can observe in the oil regions of this world today. (If it already did at that time, then I am indeed more naive than I thought.) It seems totally unacceptable to me, to use the argumentation we free Irak while the real attitude is, to enforce oil interests. If as you say there is a concern not to repeat the mistakes of the past, then why is Tibet left alone? Why no action against the chinise regime? Why not against Korea? The only answer that I can think of is that nobody has found oil there (yet). >If the usa would attack one the way or the other, > what was the use of the whole shitty comedy? The US really wanted UN support. The US did not get it. Do you > remember a few years back how the US had to go through NATO to get > Slobodan Milosevic, because Russia would not let us. Oh and where was > the monetary/natural resources benefit for going after Mr. Milosevic? There is another benefit here. But it will get too speculative, so I take your advice and re-think about that case. Still, there are too many cases of oppressive regimes which were/are supported by certain usa governments and I can't say that this convinces me of good intentions. Greetings, . ==== > There is no oil to steel in N-K... You disappoint me, Veli-Pekka. > USA is the only country in the whole planet and its history > which has ever used nuclear weapon against another nation/state > especially civilians in this case!!! AND that twice in a row! What would you have liked to have done instead? Were you a soldier during WWII? No, Finland - like my own country - lacked soldiers back then. So I see - you are definetely the right person to frown at those two bombs. If it weren't for them, you would very likely be living in Russia or Germany now. > So Saddam has got it right: US of A is The Great Satan. > Only that Saddam is his son.... I suddenly doubt your ability to judge clearly now. Well, Saddam has just lit his oilwells again, so ecological dissaster is guarenteed. He has also opened up the blankets for his relationship with Al-Qa'ida, threatening the western world with suicide bombers. I hope for the hell of it that the Brits and Americans can pull it off down there, because we're f***** otherwise. I should go back to the weapons industry again - there's said to be good money there currently. We'll probably need some new cruise missiles or something soon. I don't give a rats ass for people complaining without a solution these days. Go help your pal Saddam Hussein, if you feel he is being so mistreated. (N-K might even still be able to look down the barrel of a rifle pointing towards someone he hates so badly. Now don't give up so easy, - I hear the Republican Guard is looking for volunteers). ==== Veli-Pekka Nousiainen schrieb im Newsbeitrag Bye. > Leon! > Why to quote *ALL* the OT?? > Maybe he saw how you did in the past;-) Raymond ==== How about the stupid arrogance of people who think that they have some type of inalienable right to take over a board and post their political ramblings? As it has no doubt been posted above, this is an HP calculator board, not a war or antiwar board! >This* is one of the reasons why the usa feels, it is the cop of the > universe. I think the primary reason that the usa feels it is the cop of the > universe is that we did not get into the WWII fray as early as we > should have. That is one mistake we have no intentions of ever > repeating. >If the usa would attack one the way or the other, > what was the use of the whole shitty comedy? The US really wanted UN support. The US did not get it. Do you > remember a few years back how the US had to go through NATO to get > Slobodan Milosevic, because Russia would not let us. Oh and where was > the monetary/natural resources benefit for going after Mr. Milosevic? -Samuel Stearley ==== > How about the stupid arrogance of people who think that they have some > type of inalienable right to take over a board and post their > political ramblings? As it has no doubt been posted above, this is an > HP calculator board, not a war or antiwar board! Newsgroup. HP calculator *newsgroup*. ==== Well, I'm certainly not going to defend everything the U.S.A. has ever done. It has, at times, acted very dishonourably, and sometimes it's made stupid mistakes, and I'm ashamed of those occurrences. Sometimes it's made naive mistakes, so have I; an honourable person usually has a natural tendency to expect the same of others; I'm not so sure that that's anything to be ashamed of. And of course some mistakes are just plain mistakes, no one can know everything or be certain of all the results of all of his actions (or lack of action). When you make a decision based on the best evidence available to you at the time and with the best of intentions, it can indeed still be a mistake. Such mistakes are certainly regrettable in hindsight, but nothing to be ashamed of. And no, the U.S.A. hasn't even attempted to solve all of the world's problems. And in many cases it's tried to solve problems but failed. Do you think that any country could solve all of the world's problems? The U.N. was supposed to do something like that (well, at least problems among sovereign states), but in reality it's mostly just a (sometimes) useful debating society where each member state (and even some who are not members or not states) can have a voice and hope to be persuade others. But when the U.N. doesn't reach a consensus, then what? It can take no action without a consensus, and sometimes the lack of action has much the same results as a wrongful action. So the member states have little choice but to look after their own best interests and (I hope), the best interests of the world in general, as best they can, even if the U.N. is unable or unwilling to support the actions of those member states. The U.N. also suffers from much the same sort of problems that the U.S.A. suffered from under the Articles of Confederation; it has no way to compel payment of dues, no way to compel any member state to contribute to any military effort, or, for that matter, to take or refrain from taking any action whatsoever, short of reaching a consensus to make war on its own members, which it's quite rightly rather reluctant to do. Sometimes I have my doubts that the U.S.A. should ever have had anything to do with the U.N., but sometimes the U.N. ends up doing the right thing despite all of its faults and weaknesses. But I don't think that the world is ready for a world government with authority over the whole world to the degree that the U.S.A.'s government has authority over the whole U.S.A., so I suppose that we'll have to settle for the U.N. for the foreseeable future. And yes, the U.S.A. does have some of those dreaded weapons of mass destruction, nuclear weapons at least. Under what circumstances would you expect the U.S.A. to use them? Would you really feel any safer if the U.S.A. unilaterally disarmed? If it destroyed all of it's weapons and disbanded its military, save perhaps for a militia to be called up in the event of invasion or some other act of war on the territory of the U.S.A.? Let's see, I guess that that would leave Russia, the U.K., France, Israel, China, India, Pakistan, and maybe a few others in possession of nuclear weapons; have I left anyone out? Well, I guess we could maybe count the U.N., NATO, and the E.U. (or should I say Greater France, if France ever achieves what it seems to want), even though they're not exactly sovereign states. My apologies if I've overlooked someone, or for that matter if I've included a state that doesn't have nuclear weapons; I'm not so sure that Israel has ever claimed to have them. And of course some states that don't have any nuclear weapons still have quite fearsome military capabilities. And let's not forget that there are organizations other than states that can wreak plenty of havoc. Somehow, I'm not convinced that the world would be safer if the U.S.A. disarmed. I happen to believe that the U.S.A. has well and truly given up its chemical and biological weapons programs, although I certainly can't prove it, and the various departments of just about any government do keep some things secret. I don't expect that you'll ever choose to believe this though; you know for an absolute fact that the U.S.A. is the most evil state that has ever existed. Certainly the U.S.A. (and almost any other state) wouldn't find it too terribly difficult to develop such weapons if it chose to do so (some chemicals intended for industrial uses and micro-organisms kept in research laboratories could cause some awfully massive destruction if released intentionally or unintentionally), but for what purpose? Would the U.S.A. ever dare to use them? Or dare even to hint at their existence as a threat? If the U.S.A. were really anywhere near as evil as you seem to believe it is, I expect that the world would be in much worse condition than we find it. And yes, I've read that many stations are refusing to play the songs of some group that I'd never heard of before. So? I guess those stations government forced those stations to play whatever the government wanted them to? In the U.S.A., the government doesn't dictate what commercial stations put on the air. I'm not sure what the government's official position on this war is, but in my personal view, it's not a new war, but rather a resumption of the Gulf War which began in 1991. The consensus then was that Iraq had acted wrongly in invading Kuwait, and as Iraq wasn't persuaded to leave Kuwait voluntarily, the best option, bad as it was, was to make war on Iraq to force it to do so. After Iraq was forced to leave Kuwait, a conditional cease-fire was reached leaving the Iraqi government in power. The cease-fire agreement included the condition that Iraq substantially disarm, although it would be allowed to keep its military forces and some weapons for self-defense. This was the consensus of the U.N. We made the naive mistake of believing that Iraq would live up to the cease-fire conditions, perhaps largely because we believed that Iraq had learnt its lesson and it's government would do the right thing and act in the best interests of its citizens. U.N. inspectors were sent in, I believe, mostly to observe the destruction of the forbidden weapons and find any that Iraq might have overlooked or lost track of in the confusion of war, rather than to search for any hidden weapons. Iraq pretty much thumbed its nose at the world, but the world took little notice or action, except for some trade sanctions (which ended up doing much more harm to common ordinary folks than to the Iraqi government, whose leader still managed to live quite comfortably) and some states instituting the no-fly zones to protect Iraqi citizens from their own government. As for the U.S.A., perhaps it didn't really believe that Iraq was all that much of a threat. Clinton (now there's a President that I'm ashamed of) was probably slightly distracted by his zipper coming down at inappropriate times, unusually treated cigars, and so on, and all of the problems that those caused for him. When George W. Bush became President, he didn't seem to be particularly interested in international affairs. Indeed he seemed to be somewhat oblivious to them, taking notice of such matters only when he was forced to do so. And he seems rather unskilled at diplomatic double-talk, as if he says what he means and means what he says. That certainly rubs some people the wrong way, but personally, I find it rather refreshing, even when I disagree with what he says. The events of September 11th, 2001 forced the entire government of the U.S.A. (and those citizens who weren't already very much aware of it) to take notice that the world really is a very dangerous place. If a relatively small number of fanatical criminals could do so much damage, how much damage could the government of a well-armed state do? So the U.S.A. eventually got around to the problem of the government of Iraq, which certainly seemed to be a clear and present danger to its own citizens, its neighbors, and the world in general, including the U.S.A. So the U.S.A asked the U.N. to enforce the conditions of the cease-fire. But the U.N. didn't reach a consensus to do so, and instead sent in inspectors to try to accomplish the impossible task of finding any and all forbidden weapons that Iraq would have hidden. In my opinion, that was a very stupid mistake, and it was a very stupid mistake for the U.S.A. to agree to something that was so obviously doomed to fail. But we gave in to those in favor of appeasement and peace in our times, and gave Iraq more chances and more time to conform to the cease-fire conditions, and it continued to play silly games and thumb its nose at the world. So at last the U.S.A. and several other states have begun to take effective action by resuming the war, even though the U.N. refuses to reach a consensus to do so. So who should we blame for this horrible war that no one wants going on now? For myself, the answer is quite clearly that it's mostly the fault of the Iraqi government, with the blame shared by those who chose to ignore the problem and failed to take effective action in a more timely fashion when it would've be easier to take care of, by those who failed to take effective action even when the need became blindingly obvious, and by those who even now wouldn't take any action for reasons that are beyond my understanding. A note on the English language. I didn't invent it, and neither did the President (although he does sometimes seem to have a regrettable tendency to invent his own new dialect; or maybe that's just the Texas dialect). Sometimes I wish that it were different, but if we're going to communicate effectively, we have to use a language in a way that the general consensus of it users understands it. When we mean both continents, we say the Americas. When we mean just one of the continents we say North America or South America. For better or worse, when someone says America, just about everyone who understands English (and quite a few other languages) understands that he means the United States of America. I'd prefer that the President hadn't used the simple unqualified word America, but I don't see that he was in any way at fault in doing so. So, , with all due respect, I disagree with you on these matters. -- James ==== > According to the title of the group, you are right. > But! but... nothing. That's it, you realized that. Anything else is an excuse to talk about politics. > Is there anything at all nowadays, not connected to politics? Find me > that and I stop. If you can't find it, can we then still say that > politics is off topic anywhere at all? I suspect not. Is there anybody at all nowadays, not connected to FOOD ? So, let's talk about food too. Or religion, or health. You see your reason is that you only want to talk about that?. > Besides, at the moment in which we know that thousands will be > directly or indirectly hit by the monster called war, can we really > just sit here and discuss about our calculators only? Are we > completely insensitive for other people's pain? Are we? I live in a country where we have had an internal war since 40 year ago. Till I know you have been completely insensitive for people of my country for 40 years. Where were your comments one week ago? one month ago? one year ago?. What? You didn't know that there are many wars and pain around the world? But, of course now is different, because this war is near to you and appears on CNN. The pain and suffering is different, isn't it ? People of my country don't count, but those thousands you mention, of course they are more important. > Didn't we, the same people, express our sympathy for the victims and Where was your sympathy for the victims of my country six months ago? ten years ago? twenty years ago? > for the relatives and friends of the victims of the terrorist attacks > on that black day? Are those Arabs now less victims, down there in > that ancient land? NOT(HULK) What about the victims of my country? 40 years of death but who cares. We only appear on BBC or TVE now and then, so who cares. Now, you see how pointless (and off-topic) this discussion was. Let's talk about calculators. Leon. P.S.: Do you know which one my country is? I think not, but as I see you are very interested in wars, search for it in the 3rd world and tell us why you don't talk about my country. Not here please, look for the properly group. ==== X > You will not teach me what a dictatorship is. I have leaved under such > a regime for years, so forget the blah-blah about the usa being the X > And one of the reasons why the earth is talking english? X Was the Alexander the Great a Greek dictator?! He ruled ALL the (known) world, larger than anybody else. AND he was a dictator! Why even the New Testament is written in Greece. (Un)fortunately Greeks lost their empire and we are free!!! (-; PS: Folks! Let's see s answer to this one! ==== Well, I'm certainly not going to defend everything the U.S.A. has ever > done. It has, at times, acted very dishonourably, and sometimes it's > made stupid mistakes, and I'm ashamed of those occurrences. Sometimes This makes it sound accidental. Ooops we just started a war. Sorry! I don't think that much was left to chance when it came to liberating the Iraki oilfields. > And no, the U.S.A. hasn't even attempted to solve all of the world's > problems. I can't think of many cases of the USA doing much at all unless certain conditions are filled: a) within sphere of influence (Nicaragua, Honduras, El Slavador, Cuba, Grenada) b) strategic importance [oil] (Somalia, Iraq) c) sparring with other superpowers (Korea, Viet-Nam). > And in many cases it's tried to solve problems but failed. Do > you think that any country could solve all of the world's problems? Some countries try using diplomacy. [snip - UN] Of course, had the USA been able to bully the Security Council into backing it's invasion, then we'd now be hearing praise for it. > And yes, the U.S.A. does have some of those dreaded weapons of mass > destruction, nuclear weapons at least. And has used them. > Under what circumstances would you expect the U.S.A. to use them? Hopefully only if ever attacked by similar weapons. > Would you really feel any safer if the U.S.A. unilaterally disarmed? Yes, much safer if the USA disposed of its arsenal that is capable of destroying the Earth as we know it. Perhaps the others would do so too. [snip disarmament] > Well, I guess we > could maybe count the U.N., NATO, and the E.U. (or should I say Greater > France, if France ever achieves what it seems to want), even though Limitless farm subsidies? Are you trying to say that France's secret weapon is to pay farmers to grow cauliflowers that nobody wants to eat, and that somehow this cauliflower surplus will enable stunning military supremacy? Of course, riddled throughout this master plan is rampant fraud of the poor European tax payers. That is the reality of the EU. [snip - more disarmament] No more chemical or biological weapons. Whoopee. Most civilised countries have now banned landmines. Guess which Western country is the big exception? > If the U.S.A. were really anywhere near as evil as you seem to believe > it is, I expect that the world would be in much worse condition than we > find it. What makes you assume that? I don't particularly see anything that stops you from dumping on other people but not dumping on your own people. [Present war a continuation of the last one] Oh yeah. > disagree with what he says. The events of September 11th, 2001 forced > the entire government of the U.S.A. (and those citizens who weren't > already very much aware of it) to take notice that the world really is a > very dangerous place. If a relatively small number of fanatical It gets even more dangerous if you go around invading countries. > criminals could do so much damage, how much damage could the government > of a well-armed state do? So the U.S.A. eventually got around to the I presume that by well-armed state you're not referring to Irak. To date, all that they seem to have managed to do is to fire 4 missiles at bits of the Kuweiti desert. > problem of the government of Iraq, which certainly seemed to be a clear > and present danger to its own citizens, Since when did the USA give a damn about other countries' citizens, especially 3rd world countries? Did I miss the invasion of China to liberate the Tibetans? Two things that stink of hypocrisy: 1. There was a UN resolution for Israel to leave the lands that it occupied 30 odd years ago. How did the USA punish Israel for not complying? Embargo? No, $US10 billion of aid to help it out of the current crisis. 2. Suez. OK, Nasser wasn't the nasty dictator that Hussein is, and it was more complicated since it was a 3-way struggle. However, it was as much about self-interest as the current invasion. Britain and France wanted to keep control of the Suez canal. The USA didn't want either Britain and France to control it or, worse, the USSR to get a foothold in the region. In the end the USA bought out Britain, and the Egyptians got the canal. Oh and by the way, did anyone mention Panama? One last thing. France has been painted a villain for intransigently saying that it would veto a UN resolution paving the way for war. Guess with other permanent member has used its veto 3 or 4 times more often than France? You guessed - the USA. A bientot Paul -- Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth) Netgear: the worst technical support I've ever encountered. ==== >< a lot snipped> >> The ones really destroying UNs reputation this time was France and > Germany. >> What do you suppose a veto before the French knew what they were vetoing > to >> means? That's a spanner into the works for you. I don't agree on this point. France, Russia and Germany (China) just didn't > want to sign a paper which leads directly to war. They had probably > different reason for not signing it. But by signing this resolution there > was _no_ other consequences than war. There was no way that Irak would (or > better could) have accepted this second paper. Germany is not a permanent member of the Security Council. The UN was formed just after the Second World War, at a moment when Germany and Japan were not in very good favour. As for vetoing, the USA does it far more often than France. Ipso facto the USA destroys the UN's reputation far more than France. A bientot Paul -- Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth) Netgear: the worst technical support I've ever encountered. ==== Paul Floyd schrieb im Newsbeitrag >< a lot snipped > The ones really destroying UNs reputation this time was France and >Germany. >> What do you suppose a veto before the French knew what they were vetoing >to >> means? That's a spanner into the works for you. I don't agree on this point. France, Russia and Germany (China) just didn't >want to sign a paper which leads directly to war. They had probably >different reason for not signing it. But by signing this resolution there >was _no_ other consequences than war. There was no way that Irak would (or >better could) have accepted this second paper. Germany is not a permanent member of the Security Council. The UN was > formed just after the Second World War, at a moment when Germany and > Japan were not in very good favour. I didn't claim that Germany is a permanent member of the Security Council. I know the history of Europe (the big picture) and even of the UN;-) > As for vetoing, the USA does it far more often than France. Ipso facto > the USA destroys the UN's reputation far more than France. There is no doubt about this. Roman > A bientot > Paul > -- > Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth) > Netgear: the worst technical support I've ever encountered. ==== >> X >> Yes, but what has this to do with calculators? What economic power do they come from? How is this power created and >maintened? Does it really have nothing to do with calcs? Hmmm. The next HP calculator... > (which comes from the USA, why do you use it ? It's from USA!!!) Exactly this is what I want to say! Why shoudn't it be that we use calcs (or anything else) that come from a land whose politics/economy is not based on a government that behaves like an empire, but on real visioners? Why doesn't somebody like Hewlett go for President? > will be using new energy source. Instead of Alkalines it uses > A) Atomic eg. Nuclear power > (from North-Korea power plant or any former Soviet retired military > branch) > B) Bacteria > (from Saddams hidden weapons arsenal finally located via Hubble > telescope) > C) Chemicals like Neurogas or similar > (pumped out of the USA military experiment soldiers lungs @ veterans > hospital) > O) Oil? > X) None of the above. > (-; Though the above shows a great amount of fantasy/creativity/humor in this particular case I can't ease it up and lough - or can I? Oh yes, I can. This few lines above are a quite complete (sarcastic) description of the world. a good politic satiric statement for a looong time. Greetings, . ==== Having noted that the text file distributed with emu48 says that it implements DDE for stack exchanges, I'm trying to use that capability with visual basic. I've had no luck so far. Visual basic has methods and properties for text boxes and forms that allow them to do DDE, but all the examples show it working with excel, and not with any generic foreign application. basic: txtDDE.LinkMode = 0 'start from no link txtDDE.LinkTopic = Emu48 'set up link txtDDE.LinkItem = ' does nothing txtDDE.LinkMode = 2 ' actually starts the link When I change line 2 of that code to txtDDE.LinkTopic = Emu48|Stack, I think this indicates that a connection has now been established, but foreign application won't perform method or operation. Has anyone used the DDE feature in Emu48, or does anyone know the exact syntax or method to use? -- john ==== I had a working HP49G 1.19-6. It crashed during the running of Unitman. It recovered memory, but lost my home directory. So I did a restore.... This restore from a PC of a recent backup left my HP49G hung. flashing busy hour glass I have tried: paper clip reset stops the flashing busy hour glass +, ENTER, ON (keys) Does bring up No System screen menu. Diag tests all pass without error. But reboot or Off leaves the it such that the next ON goes back to flashing hour glass and nothing more. While the flashing hour glass is flashing all other key presses do not stop or change the flashing hour glass. I need to clear ALL user memory! And do a clean boot. Help. But how? Sincerely, Kevin Waite ==== I lost my manual and look for a step by step description for dealing with complex numbers. Sample: x=5; y=5 now I want to add a complex number (10, 90Á). How to find the new x/y value? ==== > I lost my manual and look for a step by step description for dealing with > complex numbers. Sample: x=5; y=5 now I want to add a complex number (10, 90Á). How to find the new x/y value? The HP28 only calculates with complex numbers in rectangular form. You would enter (5,5) to the stack. Then (10,90) and use polar/rectangular conversion. I don't have my 28 in front of me so I am not sure of the exact keystroke. Once both numbers are in rectangular form you can perform operations. Charles Perry P.E. ==== > When trying to use Organizer v1.1 and Scribe v1.01a together I keep > receiving an error. To get the error I run Organizer and the selected > Press a key... appears so I press a key and then get Invalid > Parameters! Press a key... so I press another key. Scribe then runs > Ok. I can't yet replicate the same error on an emulator. Any one have > any suggestions as to the cause? All other aspects of the two programs > seem to be OK. I had the same problem the first time I installed them on my calc. Now everything is fine, but I forgot what solved the problem. Martin J. ==== Could anyone please tell me how to run a program? I downloaded a few programs for my HP 49G like an Equation Library and a Chemistry program. I can see them there when I go to Files, then Home. What do I press to start them? My friend has a TI 83 + SE, and it seems like it's pretty simple on the TIs. Alex ==== there are some programs fromthe hpcalc.org site that i wanted to put in my hp48gx. i just got the connectivity kit and can transfer files such as 'z=b+c' writing and saved from windows notebook. when i download and unzip a quadratic program from the site and then try to send does not contain valid data or a valid program. when i first tried to transfer the above simple equation i go that same transfered without problems. is there something that i have to do the programs i get from the site to have the be valid programs. thank you for any help. dennis lamenti ==== You may first want to transfer a small program to your PC to get the right header for the files. Use name like OR you may want to transfer binary instead of ASCII there are some programs fromthe hpcalc.org site that i wanted to put in my > hp48gx. i just got the connectivity kit and can transfer files such as > 'z=b+c' writing and saved from windows notebook. when i download and unzip a quadratic program from the site and then try to > send does not contain valid data or a valid program. when i first tried to transfer the above simple equation i go that same > transfered without problems. is there something that i have to do the programs i get from the site to > have the be valid programs. thank you for any help. dennis lamenti ==== I lost my manual for the HP28s. So I looking for a sample how to calculate with vector? thx .... ==== A) Use vectors as you use numbers or complex numbers B) You have the great CATALOG in your HP 28S to give you the possible parameters for vector commands C) examples? [ 2 3 5 ] [ 4 7 2 ] - @ or +, then there are CROSS and DOT, ABS, SIZE, ... What do you need? I lost my manual for the HP28s. So I looking for a sample how to calculate > with vector? thx .... > ==== What's gotten into you? Are you so universally bored that you couldn't resist the temptation to provoque this newsgroup into a utterly confusing and confused rant which has no place in this forum? Come on! Take a break! I, for one, am totally confused about what you're trying to say! Please... Let's change ourselves before we try to change the world! ==== Wouldn't it be great to have a better solution to connect the 49G with the PC ? eg. ... like the one made from and for the HP 200LX community, with the help of the Total Commander (formally known as Windows Commander until november 2002), the multi-functional filemanager for windows. It has a similar dual-pane layout as the famous Norton Commander from the old MS-DOS days, and is a great Windows Explorer replacement. ***Who would be able to build up a plugin for this application ?*** Check http://www.ghisler.com/ and http://members.lycos.co.uk/maxwish/tc_wfx.html HPLX A plugin for TC which views Palmtop's files. Quote from a 'HPLX Mailing List' user: The palmtop is connected to the desktop via a serial cable and after installation, you can see (and operate on) the files in the palmtop as easily as you can on desktop files. If the palmtop is asleep, it will be awakened. This is similar to what you can do with the connectivity pack, but I think it is more solid and does not seem to drop off and collapse in mid-transfer as the connectivity pack does sometimes. I have it working at 115200 and experience no troubles Made by Pavel Zampach. - version: v1.0 DOWNLOAD -- Carlos Lacroze Buenos Aires, Argentina ==== After reading what you have written... I would bet its the RAM. But consider this, unless you are tooled to remove the IC's... and can get replacement ones... or anonther calculator to butcher... what's the point of proceeding ? I agree with the guy who says get another one and be done with it. Thats what I would do, if I was in your position...... that's what I have done for other defective items I have owned that were far more expensive than hp calculator. Personally I cant be bothered with the hassle... I get pleasure out of USING the technology.. not repairing it. ==== I'm not intending to repair if it is too complicated. If it's related to hardware, it is almost imposible to repair. But anyway, I have a non working calc and still want to know what has failed. I get pleasure out of using technology, but also get pleasure out of learning from it. You are absolutely right to get a new calc. I'm looking for a HP49. I guess I am going to get more from a 49 rather than a 48. Mariano > After reading what you have written... I would bet its the RAM. But consider this, unless you are tooled to remove the IC's... and can get > replacement ones... or anonther calculator to butcher... what's the point of > proceeding ? I agree with the guy who says get another one and be done with it. Thats what I would do, if I was in your position...... that's what I have done > for other defective items I have owned that were far more expensive than hp > calculator. Personally I cant be bothered with the hassle... I get pleasure out of USING > the technology.. not repairing it. ==== as far as i know, there is only one HP49G model produced. ==== > What is the difference between a hp49g+ and the hp49g and who sells the Hmmm! As far as I know the model with a + is the HP48G+ as opposed to the HP48G. The + model has 128KB memory instead of only 32B. !Demeter! ==== www.cynox.de HPSpeed1, Double Speed Module for HP48G/GX and HP49G, 30.00 EUR, which is currently installed on my (other) HP 49G, which I may sometimes refer as HP 49G+ - or whatever > What is the difference between a hp49g+ and the hp49g and who sells the ==== > What is the difference between a hp49g+ and the hp49g and who sells the hp49g+? check the number well... I donÇt know if it exist! basically hp48 (forty eight) G : 32kb RAM G+ : 128 kb RAM GX : 128 kb RAM + 2 expansion ports for more RAM (up to 4 MB) or sofware cards. ==== >> how will you realize that in a calc, where the stack can take full >> memory capacity?! How large will the display be? 50? ;-) We're talking about a super HP41 here, aren't we? Yes. >Therefore the stack is only X,Y,Z,T and L , Why? Even a spuer-41 can have | the unlimited depth stack of a 48. >And frankly, for day-to-day calculations without >surplus keystrokes I much prefer the >41's four-level stack. Oh, even for all-day calculations i like the 48th unlimitesd stack. If i only could remember all the stack manipulation commands... Volker ==== I would guess you could easily find someone willing to give you a 48 for a 41CX in good condition, but not many who would give up a 41CX for a 48. --Lars ==== Is a slide rule worth a 41CX? Stan Warning: Opinions subject to change without notice. >Mmmmm... An HP41 with >1Mb RAM... >> and a much better CPU than the Saturn. And much faster. >>a display that shows the complete stack, plus some registers... >> how will you realize that in a calc, where the stack can take full >> memory capacity?! How large will the display be? 50? ;-) We're talking about a super HP41 here, aren't we? Therefore the stack is >only X,Y,Z,T and L , not the unlimited depth stack of a 48. And frankly, >for day-to-day calculations without surplus keystrokes I much prefer the >41's four-level stack. ==== >>Mmmmm... An HP41 with >1Mb RAM... >> and a much better CPU than the Saturn. And much faster. >>a display that shows the complete stack, plus some registers... >> how will you realize that in a calc, where the stack can take full >> memory capacity?! How large will the display be? 50? ;-) We're talking about a super HP41 here, aren't we? Therefore the stack is >only X,Y,Z,T and L , not the unlimited depth stack of a 48. And frankly, >for day-to-day calculations without surplus keystrokes I much prefer the >41's four-level stack. Is a slide rule worth a 41CX? > If they ever made a programmable slide rule, I never heard about it. However, I do have a bamboo Hemmi 251 with leather case, and a plastic Faber Castell Rietz 57/87 with case and manual, either of which I'd swap for a working 41CX... -- Steve Ballantyne (9907) ==== >Card contacts, ok. But how about the *port* contacts? > Ordinary white paper is around the right consistency. Use something of the right thickness to support it (popsicle stick?). Do it in the summer when the humidity is up, or find some way to prevent the static build-up rubbing an insulator on the metal contacts. Bill alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) ==== > I would take a TI with your Mathtools over any HP49 > anytime... -- Helen. ad nauseum ==== Maybe ya'll dont want to get into a flame war over which company makes better calcs, we have seen enough of them, but I would like to point out the excellent C compiler available for TI-68k calcs. TI programmers also have FLASH Studio but thats not really anything to brag about. ==== Does anyone know of any programs for the HP 49 that will enhance its ability to do symbolic integration? Stan ==== > Does anybody know a way to use the solver within a user program? 30 MENU does the trick. The following program stores an equation into 'EQ', starts the solver, and >then when you press the CONT key it cleans up after itself. sqrt is the >square root symbol. << 'S=E*sqrt(1-V^2)' STEQ 30 MENU > HALT { S E V } PURGE 2 MENU > >S = elapsed time in Space >E = elapsed time on Earth >V = velocity / speed of light (e.g. .5 means half light speed) Run the program. Play with Einstein's Twin Paradox. When finished, press >CONT (shift-ON). The variables automatically get purged. The above is just one way to do it. Many others have been discussed here over >the years. I tried that, and it will sure do the job. But the little app that runs when you press right-arrow 7 (solve). Is there any way to evoke that one in a program? -- john ==== I was wanting to be able to connect my hp48 to a hp49 and to the computer. Would the hp49 cable be able to do this? I see no reason to buy the hp48 cable if the hp49 cable works on both the 49 and 48 and they cost the same amount. ==== > I was wanting to be able to connect my hp48 to a hp49 and ==== ==== Apologies if this has been discussed already - I couldn't find anything > definitive in searching back-posts. > I'm looking for a way to jump to a particular X value on a plotted graph. > Using the cursor keys with trace enabled seems horribly tedious at times. missing something? Isn't this a fairly simple, pretty fundamental feature to > be without? Is any software available to support this feature somehow? I don't > understand the internals of the 49G software - can a function be added to > the current (in-built) plotting application, or would an entirely new > application need to be written for this one feature? Is the (in-built) > plotting application part of the ROM. Any known work-arounds? > Obviously, I evaluate the function in the command line if I'm looking for an > accurate answer - this isn't what I mean; I simply miss the ability to view > (with some speed) the approximate function result without having to scroll > all the way there. The way I'm doing it now just seems silly. eshylay The only things I know about are (1) that right-shift hold with an arrow key moves to the edge of the graph space, (2) You don't have to have the cursor on the curve to look for a root or an extremum, only near the correct point horizontally (vertical position is irrelevant). ==== > Can somebody say what the adress is from the basic command GROB? GROB is not a command but a keyword understood by the command line compiler. So it doesn't have an address. > How do we do textbook mode in sys-rpl? Are you referring to the VIEW bit? > Search in the HP48 forum > How do we display text as the inference aplet when you press on help? Go to my web site: Www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/39.html and download the stats source code. You will see how you can write advanced aplets ==== Can somebody say what the adress is from the basic command GROB? GROB is not a command but a keyword understood by the command line compiler. > So it doesn't have an address. How do we do textbook mode in sys-rpl? > Are you referring to the VIEW bit? >> I would like my calculations to be displayed like the 'show' in homescreen! > Search in the HP48 forum How do we display text as the inference aplet when you press on help? Go to my web site: > Www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/39.html and download the stats source code. You > will see how you can write advanced aplets > ==== I need to adjust the display on my 48G. Can't find the manual, so can somebody pls tell me how to adjust brilliance and contrast? Any help much appreciated! Mads Odense, Denmark ==== Press and hold [ON] whiile pressing [+] for darker or [-] for a lighter display. >I need to adjust the display on my 48G. Can't find the manual, so can >somebody pls tell me how to adjust brilliance and contrast? Any help much appreciated! >Mads >Odense, Denmark > ==== Press and hold [ON] whiile pressing [+] for darker or [-] for a > lighter display. > Mange tak for det, Torstein :-) VH Mads ==== Try [ON]-[+] [ON]-[-] As I know, only contrast is adjustable. Ricks Madrid, Spain > I need to adjust the display on my 48G. Can't find the manual, so can > somebody pls tell me how to adjust brilliance and contrast? Any help much appreciated! > Mads > Odense, Denmark ==== I have found a set of 4 NiCad batteries welded together properly for my HP-41 HP-IL based Thermal Printer (82162A)from Digi-Key. However I have not been able to find the plastic battery pack to hold the batteries and fit the same into the bottom of the printer. Does anyone know where I might be able to get an empty plastic shell? I was wondering if it is possible to connect the batteries to the printer without the plastic shell? I know duct tape etc won't look that great but it would do if I have no other option. I have some plastic sheet stock that I could tape the batteries to, Also does the battery pack for the printer listed above fit any other HP device? Harold A. Climer Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy U. Tennessee at Chattanooga ==== > I have found a set of 4 NiCad batteries welded together properly for > my HP-41 HP-IL based Thermal Printer (82162A)from Digi-Key. However I > have not been able to find the plastic battery pack to hold the > batteries and fit the same into the bottom of the printer. Does anyone > know where I might be able to get an empty plastic shell? I was > wondering if it is possible to connect the batteries to the printer > without the plastic shell? I know duct tape etc won't look that great > but it would do if I have no other option. I have some plastic sheet > stock that I could tape the batteries to, Also does the battery pack > for the printer listed above fit any other HP device? > Harold A. Climer > Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy > U. Tennessee at Chattanooga AFAIK the same battery pack is used in the HP-97. Monte I now have received my new hp49G but when I connect to the PC with the connectivity software that I downloaded from the internet (v3Or4) GNU..... the SAME software that I have been using with the 48SX all these years. It goes through all the phases and the variables and directories appear in the calculator window.... BUT whenever I try to DOWNLOAD or UPLOAD a directory (or variable) I get: CFiler4x: Entry xxx (where xxx is the directory name) has unknown type 19. Directory. Please report this ! then this is followed by a window that states: xxx does not contain valid data or a valid program and the little hour-glass in the calculator disappears for good.... even though it still says Awaiting server commands... that's it.... finito.... no more communication until I exit and re-enter the software. Any body heard or seen this before ?????????????????? ==== > but when I connect to the PC with the connectivity software that I downloaded > from the internet (v3Or4) GNU..... the SAME software that I have been using > with the 48SX all these years. You will be better off with the Conn4x package (on HPCalc.org). It works with both calculators (48 and 49) using XModem links. If you develop SysRPL software on the PC, get the entire Debug4x package from HPCalc.org, it includes the connectivity package as well as a full development environment. Although this has been a shameless advert for the software I built (from Cyrilles great base), I think others might confirm what I have said. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com ==== in hpcalc.org in my 49g, using the same method that I use to normally update the ROM of the 49. But when (I suppose) the process was about a bank had to be erased, that I went to the Erase Banks menu, as soon as I returned to the previous menu and that I chose Download Pack to finish the transference. I went to this menu and I erased bank 0 (I did not dare to erase nothing else), but continues appearing I could not make another thing, then I installed the normal ROM of the 49, process in which I did not have any problem in concluding it. Some of you has tried to do this successfully?. You have managed to install the ROM of 39/40g in the 49g?. Hopefully you can help me in this. Sorry for my ---horrible--- english. Greetings from Valparaiso - Chile ==== If you still have the original batery cover you can use four (4) N size disposable batteries in the 41C/CV/CX. If you do not use an energy hungry peripheral, like a card reader, they should last a few months. These N size are also called half AA size in some places. The standard battery holder shows the correct orientation for each cell. More information at: Good luck. Jean (Johnny) Lemire from Richelieu, Quebec, Canada. ==== In a recent thread Joe pointed out the lack of a LASTX command on the 48 and 49. I forget where I got this, so the author goes unsung, but it provides LASTX for either calculator: << DEPTH -> N << LASTARG DEPTH N - DUP -> S << ROLLD S 1 - DROPN >>> Sorry it's not a proper transfer, but I don't have my cable handy. Bill ==== The HP 9s and HP 9g are just the beginning of what we have in store for > our customers throughout the coming year, said Fred Valdez, general [...] > aggressive sales and marketing partners around the world. Is it just me, or are they bluntly threatening us? :) -- ee4299 at ee dot teiath dot gr ==== > There is no reason, why 41-programs that make use of >> the 4-level-stack won't work on an unlimited stack. [List of Arguments snipped] And who says, that all what you said isn't possible to implement in a new Super 41 wich has unlimited Stack? And why shouldn't it be possible, that ist has both, RPL _and_ RPN commands as well? Of course, it won't be trivial to implement this. But who said, that ist wopuld be easy to build a new super-41? Volker ==== >>> There is no reason, why 41-programs that make use of >>> the 4-level-stack won't work on an unlimited stack. > [List of Arguments snipped] > And who says, that all what you said isn't possible to implement in a > new Super 41 wich has unlimited Stack? > And why shouldn't it be possible, that ist has both, RPL _and_ RPN > commands as well? > Of course, it won't be trivial to implement this. But who said, that > ist wopuld be easy to build a new super-41? If you mean a way to turn off the unlimited stack -- perhaps a flag that makes the Super-41 operate like a real 41 -- then that would be acceptable to me. But I wouldn't want it unless it was possible to make it behave *exactly* like a 41 (except for having more memory available, of course). -- Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== >And why shouldn't it be possible, that ist has both, RPL _and_ RPN >commands as well? Of course, it won't be trivial to implement this. But who said, that >ist wopuld be easy to build a new super-41? > These problems have been solved long time ago by Zengrange (see below;-) > If you mean a way to turn off the unlimited stack -- perhaps a flag > that makes the Super-41 operate like a real 41 -- then that would be > acceptable to me. But I wouldn't want it unless it was possible to make > it behave *exactly* like a 41 (except for having more memory available, > of course). > So it seems the best would be to use the HP-41 emulator library from Zengrange on an HP-48. This way you could easily switch between at least *three* views (HP-48, HP-41 classic, HP-41 full stack), and two user interface styles (HP-48, HP-41). And, your HP-41 programs will run without any modifications. Raymond ==== >>> There is no reason, why 41-programs that make use of >>> the 4-level-stack won't work on an unlimited stack. >[List of Arguments snipped] >And who says, that all what you said isn't possible to implement in a >new Super 41 wich has unlimited Stack? And why shouldn't it be possible, that ist has both, RPL _and_ RPN >commands as well? Of course, it won't be trivial to implement this. But who said, that >ist wopuld be easy to build a new super-41? If you mean a way to turn off the unlimited stack -- perhaps a flag > that makes the Super-41 operate like a real 41 -- then that would be > acceptable to me. But I wouldn't want it unless it was possible to make > it behave *exactly* like a 41 (except for having more memory available, > of course). The Super-41 A) could have that flag top set compatibility mode B) Have an adjustable stack size, where 0 SSIZE means unlimited (memory permitting) sized stack, yours could have 4 SSIZE, which is naturally the default, whil.9ae mine could be 5 SSIZE ==== > If you mean a way to turn off the unlimited stack -- perhaps a flag > that makes the Super-41 operate like a real 41 -- then that would be > acceptable to me. But I wouldn't want it unless it was possible to make > it behave *exactly* like a 41 (except for having more memory available, > of course). > -- > Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise Gene: I have one of these Super HP-41s. It's called an HP-42S that has been upgraded to 32K of ram. :-) That's almost close enough to my ultimate machine. If only it had I/O. -- * These statements and opinions are mine alone and do not reflect my employer's views. * ==== Is a slide rule worth a 41CX? Depends on the slide rule. I own among others a Keuffel & Esser 4081-5 Log Log Duplex Decitrig - the scale is 20 long - in practically mint condition, only a slight patina due to a couple decades of careful use, in its original orange leather case. I taught my teenage daughter logarithms on it, try doing that half as effectively on any digital device. I wouldn't trade my 4081-5 for another HP41-CX, or even another HP41-CV with a quad memory module. Then again I've already got one of each of those too... Yours WD old K - WKiernan@concentric.net ==== Links of the new Casio ClassPad 300 Books in: www.classpad.org/classpad_files/ClassPad_sample1.pdf www.classpad.org/classpad_files/ClassPad_sample2.pdf www.classpad.org/classpad.html Games in: www.classpad.org/Classpad/classpad_chip.htm otros links www.casio.com/education/index.cfm?page=/education/a22_vs_ti.htm www.mi.uni-erlangen.de/~tschach/Saarb/VortragSB.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/advanced_geometry/Napoleon.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/Parabolas.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/Ellipses.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/Tangents.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/LinearEquations.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/Sequences.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/Collinearity.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/Slope.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/SlopeHotlink.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/InterceptHotlink.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/Area.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/SimilarTriangles.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/SumAnglesRegularPolygon.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/ParallelsPerpendiculars.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/SlopesPerpendiculars.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/SpecialShapes.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/LineThru1Point.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/LineThru2Points.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/advanced_geometry/Napoleon.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/advanced_geometry/Paucellier.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/advanced_geometry/4_Bar_Linkage.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/advanced_geometry/Cubic_Spline.html www.casio.co.jp/edu_e/support/faq/faq_hpc.html www.casio.com/education/index.cfm?page=/education/computer.htm ==== > X >P.S. As the Mandelbrot set program is quite slow in completing a draw, > X > It's time for ML If you go to hpcalc.org and type MANDELBROT into the search field, you'll get lots of programs (including mine). There's one in ML as well, and fairly fast. If you want *really* fast fractals on a PC, do a search for FRACTINT on the Web. It's completely amazing. Best wishes, Bill ==== hi Helen, I like it (tigcc)! looks nice TX many C compilers don't have many features (like for microcontrollers). >is the TI C ansiC compliant or a pseudo C. ie. could you use the GNU >scientific library? (i got gcc and gdb installed in my PDA hi hi). can >you optimize? does it come with a good debuger? how many functions >does it come with? You can take a look yourself. There's basically two options: TIGCC > (see http://tigcc.ticalc.org/), or TI's SDK, downloadable for free at > TI's website. TIGCC is based on Gnu gcc, and thus should be fully ANSI > compliant, but they did not have a C debugger yet last time I looked. -- Helen. ==== hi Samuel, thanks for your reply. i don't know of hand how large the library is. it has lots of stuff. i think that if the TIgcc is anciC then it could be used :) many C compilers don't have many features (like for microcontrollers). >is the TI C ansiC compliant or a pseudo C. ie. could you use the GNU >scientific library? (i got gcc and gdb installed in my PDA hi hi). can >you optimize? does it come with a good debuger? how many functions >does it come with? The c compiler is the gcc port to the 68k processor. The compiler > does optomize. Sadly there is no debugger. It comes with more than a > thousand: They have stopped keeping close track. This includes rom > calls as well as other functions to provide functions of the studio > and standard libraries. I guess you could use the gnu scientific > library. How large is this library? The sdk by texas instruments does have a pc based debugger/simulator. > But the compiler is not as good as gcc. -Samuel ==== > I am sorry I had to write this. Sorry? What for? Out of pure nostalgia, I guess... I also find the HP more fun to use than the TI, but I guess this is because I am more or less a techie. A more objective reason is that I feel that I need to carry *two* calculators with me, even for the 5% cases I need to go beyond the TI abilities. Jean-Denis ==== >Sorry? What for? Out of pure nostalgia, I guess... I also find the HP more fun to use than the > TI, but I guess this is because I am more or less a techie. Yeah, I guess it's more likely that one would stick to what he/she started out with. > A more objective reason is that I feel that I need to carry *two* calculators > with me, even for the 5% cases I need to go beyond the TI abilities. Can you give examples of those cases? Bhuvanesh ==== I'm creating a program to calculate the Binomial distribution. I'm not very farmiular with SysRPL (Very different to Assembly and C :) I've tried to create an equasion on the stack, duplicate it, evaluate the sum between two points, and then evaluate it at a particular point (hence the dup). If the variable 'X' already exists, it doesn't calculate the sum correctly. Is there a way i can create this equasion, that doesnt' depend on what variables are stored in the filesystem? Here is the code i have atm: xNAME New :: ( Example Variables on the stack, REAL NUMBERS ) %3 %5 %2 %10 %/ CK3 CK&DISPATCH1 real :: ( Local Variable Declerations ) { LAM a LAM N LAM P } BIND ' ID X PURGE ( Purge the variable X ) LAM a ( Not entirely Sure why we put a on the stack ) xALG-> ( or use xALG-> ) LAM a ( Or even why we put a on the stack again ) SYMBOL ( This is our Equasion ) LAM N xFACT SYMBOL ID X ; xFACT LAM N SYMBOL ID X ; x- xFACT x* x/ LAM P SYMBOL ID X ; x^ x* %1 LAM P x- LAM N SYMBOL ID X ; x- x^ x* ; xEVAL ( Evaluate the Equasion if possible ) DUP ( Duplicate it on the stack ) * ' ID X ( Put the ID name 'X' on the stack ) SYMBOL ID X ; SWAP SWAP LAM a %1 x- ( to a-1) SWAP xSUM ( Find the sum from 0 to a - 1 of x in the equasion ) { LAM lt } BIND ( Store less than Value into local variable lt ) LAM a ( Put a on the stack ) ' ID X * SYMBOL * ID X * ; STO ( Store the value of a into X ) xEVAL ( Were evaluating the distribution at X=a ) { LAM eq } BIND ( Store X=a Value into 'eq' ) ( The print out of our results ) B(X< LAM a x+ )= x+ LAM lt x+ B(X<= LAM a x+ )= x+ LAM lt LAM eq x+ x+ B(X= LAM a x+ )= x+ LAM eq x+ B(X>= LAM a x+ )= x+ %1 LAM lt x- x+ B(X> LAM a x+ )= x+ %1 LAM lt x- LAM eq x- x+ ABND ( Abandon eq ) ABND ( Abandon lt ) ABND ( Abandon a N P ) ; ( End of real ) ; ==== Can we install a software or a program written for 48 to 49 or vice versa ? (ex: an engineering program) But the manual doesn't explain why it is wider than the others. indeed the source of my question, and since, as you rightly pointed out, > the 68-bit size of the index register is referred to in several disjoint > places, I presumed that it was not a simple typo. The memory registers of the 16C can be configured to be from 1 to 16 nybbles (half-bytes) of physical memory wide (i.e. from 1 to 64 bits), so having an extra four bits in the index register beyond the normal 64-bit maximum word size would make it easier to address into physical nybble memory (rather than 'virtual' words of anything from 1 to 64 bits). dd. ==== X >p.s Bravo to N.Karagiorglou for his marathons.(I still do not know all >the things you are writing about but i am trying) > The impossible name striked again, it's Karagiaouroglou but I guess > even copy-paste can't work with that string ;-) What's up Doc Banner? You have those nasty ALGebraic smileys again!! >-:< GRRRR ==== Just for the record there's a chap on eBay who sells the complete pack for $27 (New) Check out ... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3013713362&category=11713 > I have found a set of 4 NiCad batteries welded together properly for > my HP-41 HP-IL based Thermal Printer (82162A)from Digi-Key. However I > have not been able to find the plastic battery pack to hold the > batteries and fit the same into the bottom of the printer. Does anyone > know where I might be able to get an empty plastic shell? I was > wondering if it is possible to connect the batteries to the printer > without the plastic shell? I know duct tape etc won't look that great > but it would do if I have no other option. I have some plastic sheet > stock that I could tape the batteries to, Also does the battery pack > for the printer listed above fit any other HP device? > Harold A. Climer > Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy > U. Tennessee at Chattanooga ==== (Hulk) starts longer (but not too long) explanation: Vedran, I suppose you used the built-in numeric solver because you said that you got the error Bad Guess(es). Well, bad news is that the numeric solver will *not* work with complex values. Good news is that you can enter your equation, SUBSTitute all knowns, enter the variable to solve for and use SOLVE to get a solution. What I didn't quite get: What do you mean with: >How can I solve the following? PI(symbol)/3.1415 ? What do you want to solve for here? Do you perhaps mean how to find a numeric answer of the ratio? If so, then ->NUM. End of transmission, Hulk goes working, . > HP 49G uses (0,1) = i > Also, you have to state the multiplication, like > X*c= 1(2*pi*f*C*i), where pi is the symbolic pi. > Also you may find it easy enough to set some flags: > -2 SF => Constant -> Numeric > -105 SF => Approx. Mode > Ask more or wait John or to give you a longer explanation... > Why doesn't this equation work? How can I make it work? Xc = 1/(2*3.1415*f*C*j) j = (0,1) [complex number j] f = 50 [real variable] c = 10E-9 [real variable] >How can I solve the following? PI(symbol)/3.1415 ? Calculator should show something close to 1 but it doesn't. It only shows >PI/3.1415. How can I fix that? > ==== > Folks: I'm trying to enter a complex number in polar form - you know, magnitude, > then the angle buttons, then the angle. I can enter a numeric quantity of > degrees fine, but when I try to enter something like pi/2 it stops me right > at pi with an error about invalid syntax or something. I've looked through > both the owner's manual and quick start guide and find nothing. Any clues? Just enter it as: '(r, in hpcalc.org in my 49g, using the same method that I use to normally > update the ROM of the 49. But when (I suppose) the process was about > a bank had to be erased, that I went to the Erase Banks menu, as is using one more bank of 128KB than the HP49. So go into the Erase bank menu and select the first user bank and format it. Then download as usual. ==== > I forget where I got this, so the author goes unsung... It's by Darryl Okahata, and is available as 'LASTX' on Goodies Disk #3. -Joe- ==== > In a recent thread Joe pointed out the lack of a LASTX command on the > 48 and 49. I forget where I got this, so the author goes unsung, but > it provides LASTX for either calculator: << DEPTH -> N << LASTARG DEPTH N - DUP -> S << ROLLD S 1 - DROPN >> > Sorry it's not a proper transfer, but I don't have my cable handy. Well, but if you run this program then you replace the last arguments with whatever the argument to DROPN was, so if you run it twice, you'll very likely get a different result the second time, unlike the LASTX command on a classic RPN calculator. Try the following; note that it restores whatever was the most recent object in the last arguments buffer back to the last arguments buffer. It places whatever was the level 1 argument for the last command that took any arguments on level 1. Note that it doesn't restore what was on level 1 before commands that don't take any arguments, like CLEAR, DEPTH, STD, MEM, and so on. If flag -55 is set (last arguments disabled), then it errors out. If flag -55 is clear but the last argument buffer is empty, then it puts nothing on the stack and leaves the last arguments buffer empty. Would it be better if in the case that the last arguments buffer is empty, then it would put the number 0 both on the stack and in the last arguments buffer? Checksum: # D527h Bytes: 97 << DEPTH -> d << LASTARG DEPTH d - IF DUP THEN DUP2 2 + ROLLD DROPN DUP DROP ELSE DROP -55 DUP SF CF END >> Awfully big for something that seems so simple, but I think that it better duplicates the classic RPN LASTX, except with the difference that RPL calculators can have *nothing* in the last arguments buffer. But this reminds me of another difference that I'm not sure that anyone mentioned. On a classic RPN calculator, the 4 levels of the stack and the LAST X register are always present and always have *something* in them; even after a reset they each have the value 0. Not so with the RPL calculators. -- James ==== PS: Here's a version that puts the number 0 on the stack and leaves the last arguments buffer empty in the event that last arguments was empty: Checksum: # F5Dh Bytes: 94.5 << DEPTH -> d << LASTARG DEPTH d - IF DUP THEN DUP2 2 + ROLLD DROPN DUP DROP ELSE -55 DUP SF CF END >> -- James ==== James! Are you sure that the users flag status is preserved? What if it was -55 SF at the beginning? Why not use PUSH & POP? << DEPTH -> d << LASTARG DEPTH d - IF DUP THEN DUP2 2 + ROLLD DROPN DUP DROP ELSE -55 DUP SF CF END >>> ==== appear very quickly. while In any case, I strongly prefer a usenet based forum as I can organize the like the ability black-list people that post nothing useful or off-topic. In any case, I believe the original poster of this thread was a throll that was just advertising is own product ==== > I am really happy today.Can you imagine why?For a year i am > trying > to find greek users of HP calculotors.I have bought my HP49G last year > when i > had finished the second class of high school,here in athens.I am > really impressed by the capabilities of my HP.But don't you think that > here in athens > HP calc's are expensive? > Giannis Pallis > student. > p.s Bravo to N.Karagiorglou for his marathons.(I still do not know all > the things you are writing about but i am trying) The impossible name striked again, it's Karagiaouroglou but I guess even copy-paste can't work with that string ;-) Greetings and thanks a lot, . ==== --------------------------------------------------------------------- Hallo ! my mesurements and findings. It seems not so easy with the vertical synchronization. I think they designed a little mess with this nice feature. greetings, Christian Daniel I can't comment on the electronics of it but I can tell you that the > overhead display unit is exceedingly annoying because if you plug the > calculator into it while it is switched on then the LCD in the panel > almost always displays 'rolled' by about half a screen and you have to > repeatedly hit a button to roll it down the screen until it displays > properly. On the other hand if you plug it in with the calculator > switched off and then turn the calculator on then there is usually no > problem. This is the case for the 38G and the 39/40G. Hallo ! I just analyzed the video signals on the 10 pin connector of the HP38G >calculator. I think they are more or less identical to the HP48GX >signals found on the internal connector. But I found a problem with the vertical synchronization. This bit >sometimes vanishes, for instance in the plot screen without any menue >bar. Does anybody have any further informations about the display video >signals? >There had been some overhad displays for the HP38G and HP48GX. How they >done it ?? Greetings, Christian Daniel --------------------------------------------------------------------- name=christian.daniel.vcf filename=christian.daniel.vcf begin:vcard n:Daniel;Christian tel;work:++49/421/539-4694 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Astrium Space Infrastructure;IO 65, Data Processing Equipment adr:;;Huenefeldstrasse 1-5;Bremen;;D-28199;Germany version:2.1 x-mozilla-cpt:;29752 fn:Christian Daniel end:vcard --------------3C34DAB176F052981DD61814-- ==== Two months ago I bought two Klotz's memory cards (128kb and 4Mb). The first worked and works fine, but the 4mb one gave me some problems. My problem is that fi the card is inserted to the end of the slot, then it gives me the invalid card data error and appears only with one :2: port. The result is that it doesn't work. I send back the card to Klotz, he said that there was a problem with contacts, solders or something similar, but it was solved and tested. But when the card returned to me, it worked in the same way than before the reparation. I don't know how I realized that if i insert only a little the card and then push it with the black cap. But my memory and my calc are now working fine. After all, there is a problem with dimensions in my calc, my ram card or in both. I hope that my experiences will help you to solve your problem. And other thing, when I send my card back to Klotz, i had no problems with Ricardo Garc.92a Wayne Brown escribi.97 en el mensaje >I have bought two Klotz's memory cards (128kb and 1Mb) last summer, they >works fine for several months, but the 128 kb has failed. I don't know what >is happening. First it causes a Invalid card data error, It's an usually last >weeks I haven't installed new libraries, so it don't seems to be a problem >of corrupted libraries. I proved it in other empty memory hp48, slot 1, and the invalid card data >continues, PINIT don't solve the problem. But if I store a library in port >1, it works, but always I switch on the calculator, all libraries are >initialized. I removed the batterie from the card for a week, and when I use >it again the problem is exactly the same. Really I don't understand what is happening and I'm not sure it's a hardware I'm sure he'll help you determine where the problem lies and replace > the card if it's defective. -- > Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise > fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give > | your pelt to the trapper. > e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock > ==== Did someone port FEM48 v5.2 to HP 49G? :) Please!!! P.S. I am student in VERY small and poor contry... :( ==== HI! You can try on www.hpcalc.org or author's home page (click the (H) on hpcalc beside the author). But as far as I know from the home page, the FEM48 5.2 is the same for both 48 and 49. But I'm not 100% sure:) Haven't tried yet:) Hope I helped:) KORPi > Did someone port FEM48 v5.2 to HP 49G? :) Please!!! P.S. I am student in VERY small and poor contry... :( ==== (shudder!) but will try and adhere to standard policy for future postings. > I'm only an HP49G-newbie not a USENET-newbie! My apologies! I now see that your longest line was only 76 columns. I inadvertently had my editor set so it wasn't showing 80 columns, and with the > prefixed, I saw some lines extending all the way to the right edge, and wrongly jumped to the conclusion that your lines were too long. Best of luck on writing programs; I expect that you'll find the 49G much more useful after you add some of your own programs to it. -- James ==== ac206886.0303171555.21a268d9@posting.google.com, kham le > Can we install a software or a program written for 48 to 49 or vice versa ? > (ex: an engineering program) If it's a UserRPL program and you're sending it using ASCII kermit, then transferring the HP48 program to the HP49 will be okay. Make sure your HP49 in approximate mode first. The other way around, as the HP49 as UserRPL keywords that don't exist in the HP48 is more troublesome ====