A14 : Break library : Decompile 48 program : Modifie it. : Compile it for 49 : Create library. : : Probably you'll need to know sys rpl and assembly.... : : Regards : : Ricardo i only know user rpl :p . : -- : : Linux Registered User: 202 170 : Kernel 2.2.19 : http://193.145.89.239/~rblasco/ : : Un222os, hermanos linuxeros : 640 Kb de memoria son m207s que suficientes (IBM AT Designers - 1982) : Bueno, espero que esto no aparezca en la versi227n final (Bill Gates en : la presentaci227n de Windows Crash Debug '98) : : ==== EuMess wrote: Then you've got a problem. Unless it's a user rpl program you won't be able to convert it Learn it! It isn't so difficult and it's worth the effort. Regards Ricardo -- Linux Registered User: 202 170 Kernel 2.2.19 http://193.145.89.239/~rblasco/ Un222os, hermanos linuxeros 640 Kb de memoria son m207s que suficientes (IBM AT Designers - 1982) Bueno, espero que esto no aparezca en la versi227n final (Bill Gates en la presentaci227n de Windows Crash Debug '98) ==== /me? wrote in message news:<9tpaia$44106$1@ID-88878.news.dfncis.de>... OK, here is a stupid and brittle method that would only really work with pure SysRPL programs: 1. first, get xref off of hpcalc.org, and use 'uniq +1 -c 5' (if that's right) to remove all the duplicate HP48 entries from the file that is ordered by the HP48 entries. Write a program to transform what's left into a list of {PTR 48entry1 PTR 49entry1 PTR 48entry2...} and then compile this with hptools. Transfer to your calculator. 2. Now, right a stupid SysRPL program using LOOKUP (see the Composition section of the entry database) that runs through another SysRPL program, replacing every instance of 48entryX and replacing it with 49entryX -- and aborting on any instance of UnknownEntry, which is probably the safest thing. You might want to give this program some intelligence, in that it'll abort on CODE objects too. 3. Now, use this program to convert HP48 SysRPL code, and look over the result to see if it's at least sane. Backup and run. This will work if, as I suspect, most SysRPL programs use standard or unsupported-but-stable (which the xref would have) entry points and don't have a lot of jumping-to-any-random-place-in-the-ROM, which one might find in ML code, if the author felt like it. Are there any other obvious complications? I don't really think that such translation can work in a purely mechanical manner -- or that it would be particularly good. Your best bet is an interested programmer. ==== Scott Spillman wrote in message news:<9ud8vn$e8q$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>... Scott and Co. Sorry this is really vege stuff to ask but... In the Home directory, I can see the program, but am still not making the link (in my mind) using the instructions to get it onto the Stack. The soft keys are Edit, Copy, Move, Rcl, Eval, Tree, Purge, Renam, New, Order, Send, Recv, Halt, View, EditB, Heade and List. Question is, which one of these will get the Program onto the Stack? I'm afraid that I have not picked it up yet. Please help. Martin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== No, don't worry about the stack, just highlight the library file (using the cursor up/down keys if necessary), press [Move], then highlight the target port (at the top of the directory tree, again using the cursor keys), press [ENTER]. Wait for the operation to finish, then, to have the library attached, reboot your calc with [ON]+[C], done. This is supposed to be the most intuitive method, analogous to what you would do on a Windoze computer. The alternative method using a recall to the stack, then a STO to the desired port is for those of us who hold up the believe that the command line is vastly superior, and that graphical filer applications are only for the wimps. ;-) -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag References: <4dc43f26.0112011559.72a3686b@posting.google.com> <9uc1hj$aj5$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9uc8ro$fmg$07$1@news.t-online.com> <4dc43f26.0112020218.61bac1e2@posting.google.com> <9ud8vn$e8q$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <4dc43f26.0112030808.3bfa8e5d@posting.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ==== Martin Blennerhassett wrote: ReCalL If you have the newest (1.19-6) ROM, you can also hit the key labeled RCL. I don't have my calc here but I think it's Leftshift-STO. Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them. ICQ# 103670088 -- Harry S. Truman ==== Albert Graef wrote in message news:<9ugn7d$t4j$01$1@news.t-online.com>... The job is done now with Organiser 1.0 and Xcell both installed and working fine. Thanks for all your help. I knew that it was simply a matter of getting some guidance. Thanks again Martin. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== Congrats. :) BTW, Organizer 1.1 for the 49G is also available on hpcalc.org, it's even better than 1.0. This is a great program, I use it a lot, therefore I have [APPS] double-click assigned to it. Q: Does anyone have a German holidays file for it? NB: In case you're still wondering how library installation works from the command line, I think the fastest way to do it goes like this: [r->] [Myvar] 2 [STO] ' [Myvar] [TOOL] [PURGE] (This stores the contents of the variable in port 2 and removes the original variable. [r->] denotes the right shift key, [Myvar] the variable softkey from the [VAR] menu.) -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== Jacek Marchel wrote in message news:<3C0818C8.C6F39165@home.com>... No =) Actually, I run very different programs on either computer, whether or not they have the same purpose. There's different design, and there's different settings, and there's different users -- one of them is *mine*, and the other belongs to whoever it does belong to -- and this person rarely bothers to tune his system, and doesn't take to others trying to do so themselves. Mind, an operating system that takes 10-15 minutes to boot up, and then runs such unfriendly programs as MSN Explorer (because that's the only program there, and the one I have to use) *is* extremely annoying in sustained exposure. I'll stop whining about this, OK? It wasn't even a particularly good argument, except to imply (only, apparently, to someone who's heard my other complaints on this topic) that there's more to a fast machine than a fast processor. ==== cybernesto wrote in message news:<9u8akv$2r3$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>... It is only because I don't have any idea about development of programs in C for the TI. So I thought I better ask you before I talk about things I don't know. No rhetorical irony inteded. That's nice! So you have all (or many) entry points that already deal with maths and you can freely use them in C programs? Excellent! I think I'll buy a TI too. :-) Thanks for replying despite my what's this what's that :-) Greetings, Nick. ==== Veli-Pekka Nousiainen wrote in message news:<9uab54$3q7$1@news.kolumbus.fi>... Hi megale (great) Veli-Pekka! You mean, if HP was to down-scale the process, would it then be possible to just exchange the processor of the HP49G with the new one, to make the calc more speedy? Or must other changes also be carried out? Greetings, Nick. ==== cybernesto wrote in message news:<9u8916$96$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>... Fully agree with that. It would not be very easy for every user to just write some programs he/she needs, if the only solution for the performance problem would be to use a low level language. Why should we have programmables that require so much knowledge in order to be programmed? I can hardly believe that, since I claim to be incompatible to anything. ;-) Yeah, that would be great. :-) Again, fully agree with you. If performance includes such low(er) level languages, then it stops being interesting to me. As I don't have any idea what TIBasic looks like, I had to ask you that quastion. So, if I understand you, it resembles other BASIC languages, and so the necessary effort to learn it is small. Nice! Perhaps that is the reason why HP-Basic was included in the HP49G. To resemble the resemblance of TIBasic to other BASIC-like languages? ;-) Greetings, Nick. ==== cybernesto wrote in message news:<9u8916$96$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>... Unless you're a programmer. If you've an hp calc it's certainly worthwhile to learn how to program it. (And experience with UserRPL has connections to SysRPL, and SysRPL has connections to ML, and when you reach ML you've completed the circle and there are insights on all levels -- you think this could possibly be a waste of time? Not for a programmer -- and if you're not a programmer then why the heck are you worrying about having to learn another language for later systems (and if you are a programmer: why the heck are you worrying about having to learn another language for later systems?)?). ==== cleverjulian@hotmail.com (Julian Fondren) wrote in message news:<76ea4fd3.0112031325.12dc996e@posting.google.com>... Of course it is interesting to learn how to program the calc. It is only that one usually has also other unimportant things to do, such as the job, family etc and that a day still has 24 hours. ;-) And, as John always said, you also must sleep. ;-) So if I have to learn this and learn that and I bought the calc not for becoming a programmer but for getting answers, then something in the story is wrong. Imagine an engineer that has his job, which is hard enough, and also has to spend days and weeks with SysRPL and ML in order to get performance. User RPL is enough additional effort, but should one take vacations to learn also SysRPL and ML? To transfer a similar situation to a PC, imagine some creative who has to learn math algorithms and their implementation in C, in order to edit graphics. He/she will probably say, to hell with that and act accordingly. ML-greetings, ( 1001001000 ) Nick. ==== nk@imos-consulting.com (Nick Karagiaouroglou) wrote in message news:... No, nothing at all is wrong :-/ You *don't* have to learn SysRPL or ML or UserRPL (though you'll probably want to learn a *little* UserRPL) to use the calc. If you want to multiply two numbers, or integrate a function, or graph several functions, or play HPWorms, you only have to learn a little about the calculator's interface (and how to install libraries). As for your subsequent examples about the creative who wants to edit graphics -- well, on PCs there are graphic editing programs (just like there are on the 49G). If there weren't graphic editing programs on a PC one would have to be programmed -- by the creative or someone else! If you want to get an answer that a simple single command or library can't give you, you might have to do a little programming. If you're doing something a little esoteric or want to speed up a program a bit, you might have to learn something a little closer to the machine than UserRPL. What's wrong with this? TI-Basic doesn't 'solve' these problems, it just doesn't solve them as well. But that was muddled. What's being said is that the TI(89?) is superior to the HP49G in the case of barely-programmers because its particular brand of Basic once outperformed a SysRPL program on the HP49G written by the same author to the same end. I don't see this as very convincing -- if I didn't want to learn much programming I'd be more inclined to use the HP49G, with its large basic vocabulary and libraries available -- and deeper, compatible languages that, if not I, at least other people could use to give me more power. ==== Nick Karagiaouroglou wrote: Hello - Does anyone has a refrence for information on HP49 HP BASIC? In hpcalc.org I found the following: Questions: What mode do you use to program in HP49 BASIC - Algebraic or RPN? Do you need to enclose the above sample in << >> like in RPL? Is this HP49 BASIC for real (it exists) or is it just hype (it doesn't exist)? If you have any info, please pass it along. Thanks. ¿Problemas con las news? Webnews, el acceso m207s r207pido y fiable http://webnews.aforo.com User IP: 207.212.230.93 ==== cleverjulian@hotmail.com (Julian Fondren) wrote in message news:<76ea4fd3.0112041009.42da0ff7@posting.google.com>... Theoretically yes! But when it comes to practical use, one is very often contfronted with the questions how can it work faster? or how can I do that?.. It is good to provide an easy programing language, to let the machine do things that can't be built-in. For this we have UserRPL which is capable of doing really many many things. Its flexibility is big enough to allow one, to theoretically make a program that, for example, simplifies the expression (1-COS(X)^2)^4·(1-SIN(X)^2)^3·(SIN(X)^2+COS(X)^2)^5 to SIN(X)^8*COS(X)^6 . Theoretically because if one writes such a program that works not only for 1-COS(X)^2 but also for, say, a-a*COS(X)^2 or COS(X)^2-1 or any other variation, one should use a very very sofisticated algorithm, that heavily uses commands like OBJ->, and interpretes the whole expression, for each and every argument and function, and then re-writes everything in its simpler form. It is possible to write such a program on paper, but then the question is, if the running program would be faster than me with paper and pencil. So, we come to the point where UserRPL, though very flexible, is also not performant enough, not because of itself, but because of the ancient hardware where it runs on. If you want teh same algorithm to be quicker, then you have to change the programming language, since the harware is not going to change. It is not the existence of graphing programs that came into my mind, but the hypothetical proposal to a creative, to learn C in order to make it quicker/better/what so ever. Depends on what you want to do. Things like the example above, can't be done reasoably with a little programming. Yes, but why should one learn SysRPL when UserRPL allows to so something, which is only practically not usable, because of long processing times? It is not the things that are not possible with UserRPL, that I comment here. It is the things that would be possible (and theoretically *are* possible) but can't be done, only because UserRPL on this particular hardware for the particular purpose would be so slow. Its harware is much faster. So the same algorithm written in TIBasic, executes faster on the TI than with UserRPL on the HP. To stay to the above example with the trigonometric identities simplification, if some hypothetical program needs, say, 30 seconds to accomplish this task on the HP, it would need less time on the TI. It is not only one particular program, but a whole bunch of execution times and comparisons. The TI is quicker, much quicker. And beware! Its software isn't even half as optimized as the software of the HP. Now let time pass until everything on the TI is as highly optimized as on the HP, and then we will only see the HP eating dust. As many people pointed out, it is not at all impossible to make faster hardware for the HP, but I doubt if this will be done. So in a couple of years, the theoretical concept of this machine will be gone, because the hardware is so ancient. If the ideas behind the HP49 were not good, then I would say good bye. But exactly because the underlying ideas are so good, it is a real pity to see this machine (and the ideas) disappearing. Greetings, Nick. ==== nk@imos-consulting.com (Nick Karagiaouroglou) wrote: You're going to get flamed! I can just see it coming. Bhuvanesh. ==== nk@imos-consulting.com (Nick Karagiaouroglou) wrote in message news:... I don't understand what you're saying, here. Please elaborate? Is it really? I hear all the time about cases where the HP49G outperforms the TI through superior programming -- of course, this wouldn't apply as well to user work. And I also hear about the reverse, where TI beats HP. Does anyone have any clear information on how and where these two calcs compare, performancewise? Hah! Well, HP is already eating dust, but the HP49G is still a great calculator -- when the time should come that a TI calc is truly superior to it, I'll already be using one of Steen's. The 'theoretical concept', if you mean RPL, is pretty old -- and I don't see *anything* on the horizon that's technologically superior to it. Unless Steen and co. come out with their calc, I will most likely be still using my HP49G regularly in two years... and five, and ten. Hm. I think that the problem is that I've not yet really hit the 'wall' in my HP49G, where the machine is simply too slow to do what I want it to. This is most probably *my* fault, in that I'm simply not considering tasks that are either A) too hard to program, or B) too complicated to run with any speed -- You notice that I'm not talking about all my AI and VR work on my HP49G =) But I hear beautiful music by Bach, and look at the most amazing pictures, and my interface is very responsive... where's the line? The original complaint of this thread was on integrating functions: maybe when I get to doing a lot of that I'll see the light. (Oh, but it takes a while for StarMaHP and Urania to draw a skymap. I'm not sure what's involved in that work.) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== An older but still nice comparison of the CAS capabilities and performances: http://tifaq.calc.org/ti89vshp49.pdf -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== Heiko Arnemann wrote in message news:<3c08d703$0$27939$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>... No easy way to do this Heiko! An alarm that goes off while another program is running, will sit and wait until the running program ends and will activate afterwards. But you can do the following to achieve a similar behavior. You add code which checks from time to time if an alarm comes due in the program which should be interrupted by the alarm. Use the command RCLALARM and check if its activation time is less than the current time. If not, continue with program execution. If yes, then halt the running program by adding the command HALT in it. << .... your code 1 RCLALARM IF 2 GET TIME < THEN HALT END .... your code 1 RCLALARM IF 2 GET TIME < THEN HALT END .... The alarm itself should be a program with the command CONT at its end. So when the running program detects an alarm that must activate now, it halts. The alarm does what it has to do, and then issues a CONT which lets the former running program continue from the point where it halted. Hope that it helped, Nick. ==== High Nick, thank you for your proposal (The Nick-Alarm-Checker NAC ;-) I do not like that much the requirement of the CONT command in the alarm. Let think about a program which is written for other users. They would need to think about the CONT, when they write an alarm. So far I know, the alarm is able to interupt Edit-mode and the Kermit-Server. Means, interupting and continuing. This would be nice. I think, some SysRPL is required, to realize that? ..Heiko Nick Karagiaouroglou schrieb ==== Heiko Arnemann wrote in message news:<3c0be6b2$0$24136$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>... Yep, NAC them all ;-) Yes, you are right. And all those alarm checks that the user has to insert in various places in a program are even worse. But the problem is, that a running program, which doesn't have any code to check for alarms, will not suspend execution until it ends and the alarm will go off afterwards. It would be a little better if the alarm itself could suspend a runnign program and let it continue afterwards, but I don't know how a running program on the 49G can be notified by another program to wait and continue later. Well, perhaps. I don't know if SysRPL has commands that can tell another program: Hey! Halt now, continue later. Any ideas from the gurus out there? Alarmed greetings, Nick. ==== Heiko Arnemann wrote: Hello Heiko, That would indeed be extremely dangerous. A user program in an alarm can do various things to the stack so that continuing the first program may cause a TTRM. For good reason, only standard alarms with the standard cuckoo sound behave in the way you describe. User-made interrupting alarm programs may spoil the stack and hence should not automatically continue. The easiest way to interrupt a not necessarily watched running program with an alarm is to put the following simple SysRPL-program or its name, AHALT say, at one or more suitable places in a long running program: :: ALARM? (is there an alarm pending?) NOT?SEMI (if not, go to semi, i.e., do nothing) xHALT (else interrupt a program's run) ; Look at the stack while the HALT indicator is on. If there is a real in level 1 that shouldn't be there, this is probably the alarm index of the executed alarm. So either drop it or apply DELALARM on it or acknowlegde the alarm or whatsever. You must be sure that the stack hasn't been altered at the interrupted place! Only then you may press CONT (leftshift ON) to continue program execution. Otherwise press CANCEL. Unfortunately, CANCEL does not always interrupt as it should, e.g., if using SCROLL or the SysRPL commands ViewObject, ViewStrOb, ViewGrobOb inside another program, perhaps a bug. A more comfortable version of AHALT is the program :: ALARM? NOT?SEMI xHALT Continue? AskQuestion NOTcase ABORT ; which invokes a YES/NO-choice after pressing CONT. This does interrupting by sure. Instead of ABORT one should perhaps use ERRJMP in perfect programs. The command ALARM? is very fast. A pitty that it has no UsrRPL equivalent. Testing a pending alarm with UsrRPL means is extremely slow and memory-devouring. All the above is particularly important if a program's run is interrupted with OFF or TurnOFF. This is mostly the case in autostart programs. If then a due alarm is waiting on execution while you're sleeping, no wake-up melody is played. Only the batteries are suffering :-) - Wolfgang ==== Heiko Arnemann schrieb I got it, it is: FPTR 2 46 I have put that into a varialble. Calling the variable from a UsrRPL program, it is working fine. Where can I find more about if it is suported etc.? ..Heiko References: <3c08d704$0$27939$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.145.205.253 X-Trace: corp.newsgroups.com 1007422454 208.145.205.253 (3 Dec 2001 17:34:14 -0600) Lines: 27 ==== Heiko Arnemann wrote: KEYEVAL invokes only the functions directly accessible from the main keyboard; it doesn't generate keystrokes to be fed to internal applications or choose menus, etc. Try this (to execute FPTR 2 46 via UserRPL): CA6202006400 #100001h LIBEVAL EVAL Hmm... did we all forget to ask for another Lib256 function, say FPTR~ (analogous to XLIB~)? Well, too late, I guess! If you want the plain [soft] menu version instead, try: 94 MENU [r->] [OFF] -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- References: <3c08d704$0$27939$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> <3C0C0EC7.F2EB2844@miu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.145.205.253 X-Trace: corp.newsgroups.com 1007423759 208.145.205.253 (3 Dec 2001 17:55:59 -0600) Lines: 16 ==== I wrote: Well, #46002h FLASHEVAL would be a bit simpler :) Or 94 MENU (for soft menu instead). [r->] [OFF] -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- ==== John H Meyers schrieb Thank you John, this will spare a few bytes I hope, because I can scrap the additional Variable for the fpointer :-) ..Heiko ==== EuMess wrote in message news:<9ubn0n$7fknm$4@ID-88878.news.dfncis.de>... No, I am from Greece. Greekkings, Nick (the greek). ;-) Mime-Version: 1.0 ==== It's called Gu222a para desesperados. It has some small additions and corrections from Tim's wonderful document for begginers. In RTF, HTML, Word, ASCII and ANSI. You can find it in hpcalc.org, http://www.eis.uva.es/~hp48 and http://www.etsiig.uniovi.es/asociaciones/clubusu/ La traducci227n a espa226ol del documento de Tim 20 essential things to know about the HP49-G, con peque226as correcciones. Da trucos y respuestas a los problemas m207s normales que el principiante se encuentra, adem207s de enlaces a otra documentaci227n. Arriba ten216is los formatos actuales y los lugares donde pod216is encontrarlo (bajo el nombre Gu222a para desesperados). NNTP-Posting-Host: pc-132.acfr.usyd.edu.au ==== If your Spanish is OK, their newsletter is great! M207ximo Casta226eda Riloba wrote in message news:3C0E1B70.77982865@alumnos.uva.es... It's called Gu222a para desesperados. It has some small additions and corrections from Tim's wonderful document for begginers. In RTF, HTML, Word, ASCII and ANSI. You can find it in hpcalc.org, http://www.eis.uva.es/~hp48 and http://www.etsiig.uniovi.es/asociaciones/clubusu/ La traducci227n a espa226ol del documento de Tim 20 essential things to know about the HP49-G, con peque226as correcciones. Da trucos y respuestas a los problemas m207s normales que el principiante se encuentra, adem207s de enlaces a otra documentaci227n. Arriba ten216is los formatos actuales y los lugares donde pod216is encontrarlo (bajo el nombre Gu222a para desesperados). ==== Hi Alain- I didn't find it there when I checked this Sunday night. Is it available at any other sites? Bob Alain Robillard wrote in message news:_svO7.153$V12.292143@news20.bellglobal.com... ==== Hello Bob, it was on Eric's site but, for a moment, under the wrong category. Here is the link : http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/apps/matrix/xcellv20_49.zip Regards Alain Bob Martin a 216crit dans le message de news: 9ueqku$ijv$1@news.monmouth.com... at Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== is Works great, thanks for porting this! -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== Alain Robillard wrote in message news:<86DO7.3272$BS1.490892@news20.bellglobal.com>... Bob should've scrolled down a bit more to see the 'updated', etc. list. NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp059-nas4.iperbole.bologna.it ==== Alain Robillard ha scritto nel messaggio news:86DO7.3272$BS1.490892@news20.bellglobal.com... is I followed the link, but got: Forbidden You don't have permission to access /hp49/apps/matrix/xcellv20_49.zip on this server. Any help? ============================================================ Paolo Cavallo I am a teacher at heart, and there are moments in the classroom when I can hardly hold the joy. P. J. Palmer, 1998 paolo.cavallo@iperbole.bologna.it http://www.alberghetti.it/paolo.cavallo/pc.htm ============================================================ EMERGENCY - UNO STRACCIO DI PACE - www.emergency.it ==== Hi Alain I know its a lot to ask but is there any chance of a version being created for the HP39/40G? Consider me on my (virtual) knees :-) Alain Robillard wrote: -- Colin Croft Old mathematicians never die; they just lose some of their functions. ====================================== Applications in Mathematics ccroft@iinet.net.au http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/ ====================================== Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== Hmm, I can't get UNDO to work. After pressing something like DEL, UNDO does nothing (yes, UNDO is toggled on). Another silly question: How does relative copy work? I press [C], which lets me select the source range, but not the target position, and it doesn't leave anything on the stack either. TIA, Albert -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== Sorry Colin, I have no knowledge of how to port anything to the 39/40. Also, based on Tim's experience, porting a program from the HP48 to the 39/40 is not an obvious task. I must say that I don't see when I will ever have the time to learn how to port such a library. Regards Alain Colin Croft a 216crit dans le message de news: 3C0B93D1.BE9341E7@iinet.net.au... ==== Hello Albert, hmmm, the first question is certainly not silly: the UNDO doesn't seem to be working. I'll have a look at it (I'm sure it once worked ... ). Again, I will have to talk with the Quality Assurance department ! Concerning the second question, the copy function offered by XCELL copy the current cell (only the current cell) to a range of destination (down OR right). If you want to copy a range of values you could use the export function (B) to the stack and then import it from the stack with the DROP key. Unfortunatly, this trick doesn't keep the relative but the absolute coordinates. Unless more experienced XCELL users have other solutions, copying a range of cell falls into the improvment category. Thanks ! Alain Albert Graef a 216crit dans le message de news: 9ugm83$um2$00$1@news.t-online.com... does relative ==== Hello Alain Robillard wrote in message news:nPUO7.12903$yE5.967589@news20.bellglobal.com... to If the source code is clear enough and you are using the HPTools, then I could have a look at it. Just send it to me at my home address: jean-yves@avenard.org Cheers Jean-Yves Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== the Thanks for the info. If you're open to suggestions, I'd like to vote for a separate operation to mark a rectangular cell range, or better yet a collection of such cell ranges. That way all operations requiring a cell range input (copying, extracting, plotting etc.) could consistently operate on the marked range. Anyway, it's a nice program as it is, and I'm glad that you ported it to the 49G. :) Albert -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== Alain Robillard wrote in message news:... Hello Alain, First of all, thanks for porting the library!... And yes, seems that there are some functions not working. I think there's a problem with the keys distribution. Simply the HP48 doesn't have the keys in the same position as the 49. I've tried to export the sheet to a text doc using [LF] [MTH] and doesn't work either. Regards, Carlos J. Bourlot C227rdoba, Argentina Message-ID: References: <_svO7.153$V12.292143@news20.bellglobal.com> <9ugm83$um2$00$1@news.t-online.com> <9f759c42.0112040255.7a7185ed@posting.google.com> ==== CJB> Hello Alain, CJB> First of all, thanks for porting the library!... CJB> And yes, seems that there are some functions not working. I think CJB> there's a problem with the keys distribution. Simply the HP48 doesn't CJB> have the keys in the same position as the 49. I've tried to export the CJB> sheet to a text doc using [LF] [MTH] and doesn't work either. Yes, there are several issues with keys. For example ALPHA RS Q does not insert ^ when adding data to a field. Other special characters don't work either - I guess some remapping of the keys is needed. Otherwise, thanks for the port, a spreadsheet really was missing!!! - Carsten ==== Hello Carlos, to export data to a text file, you must press LS-VAR and not LS-MTH. XCELL will then create a file named after the Sheet name followed with .txt in the current directory To get the key assignments please refer to the key assignment quick reference available with the NXT key. Regards Alain Carlos J. Bourlot a 216crit dans le message de news: 9f759c42.0112040255.7a7185ed@posting.google.com... news:... to be I the DROP absolute ==== Albert Graef a 216crit dans le message de news: 9uhmo1$98r$05$1@news.t-online.com... operate Hello Albert, the present version wanted to be as close as possible of its HP48 counterpart. But, if the interest is there, I was considering the release of an improved version (speed and usability) where some of the suggestions could be included. Alain Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== Hi, Alain. Well, you can see all the replies you got, so obviously ppl *are* interested in this prog. I hope you will go for a new improved version. -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== Alain Robillard wrote: Thanks a lot for the help and, again, for porting the library. It should be great if you can spend some extra time developing new features. Regards, Carlos J. Bourlot C227rdoba, Argentina ==== Great! And now that BORG permitted Lagavoulin, the mixture is perfect! ;-) Greetings, Nick. P.S. Some rumors about permission of ouzo still remain unconfirmed. ;-) Veli-Pekka Nousiainen wrote in message news:<9ua96n$1pv$1@news.kolumbus.fi>... ==== Albert Graef wrote in message news:<9uac80$ump$05$1@news.t-online.com>... You ain't seen nothing yet. Our next step will be Q. VPN will be answering before you even think of sending a message. Ha! They can take over what so ever! Q doesn't care about such things. ;-) Greetings (from the continuum), Nick. ==== Hi. I have always been fond of algorithms and this group always delivers with a good source for just about anything, so I'll give this a shot. Arbitrary integer arithmetic fascinates me and I almost foam at the mouth when I think about arbitrary floating point math. However, I have not been able to find a detailed reference to the algorithms involved in extending floating point arithmetic beyond the usual precision of the HP 48/49 family. I've found pretty good stuff for basic arithmetic, but I'm interested in the whole enchilada--square roots, powers, inverses, transcendentals, and don't forget support for complexes if possible. I've got great source code in LongFloat from ALG48 as a starting point, but I'm no algorithms expert (I'm a math/philosophy undergrad major, and I stress the philosophy part) nor am I any SysRPL guru. On the other hand, I've been looking for a long-term, brain-exercising project and I'd love to learn about this stuff (who knew numerical computation could be as fun as symbolic computation? :-). If anyone knows a reference I should look for to further my fascination, I'd love to hear about it. I could use some momentum considering I have so little at the moment. Thanks in advance. --Rahul Hore' ==== Rahul Hor216 wrote: Hi, Linear Fractional Transformations provide an interesting path to exact real computer arithmetic. You will find references to the subject at http://www.purplefinder.com/~potts/. As an illustration of LFT, let's approximate the square root of 2 on the HP 49G. First enter [[1 2][1 1]]. This matrix represents two fractions, 1/1 and 2/1, and sqrt(2) lies between them. Now enter 20 ^ to get another matrix, [[152139002499 215157040700] [107578520350 152139002499]], which again represents an interval containing sqrt(2): 215157040700/152139002499 <= sqrt(2) <= 152139002499/107578520350. The difference between the fractions is only 1/16366888776367372354650, or about 10^(-22.2). Using some fraction to floating point conversions, you can find the first 22 digits in the decimal expansion of sqrt(2): 1.414213562373095048801. Higher precisions can be obtained by raising [[1 2][1 1]] to a power higher than 20. Luc Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ==== First of all, I would ask you to excuse my english, because I'm French .... I would like to sell a HP48GX to a friend, but he hesitates between my HP and a TI89 .... Can you give me a piece of advice in order to sell my hp48 ? Thanks . ==== well a TI-89 is pretty new technology, the 48GX is not, so i think you might be stuck there. advantage with the HP is RPN -- You should quit while I'm ahead. Vincent wrote in message news:9ulj9j$e0v$1@wanadoo.fr... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ==== Vincent wrote: Well, tell him that the TI is made out of shit whereas the HP is made out of metal and very high quality plastic. :-) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== might And RPL. (Let's face it: Basic sucks.) And the builtin timer. And the IR port. And the standard serial interface. And the RAM extensibility. And the better keys. And the professional look. And the customizability. And the lot of excellent freeware and online docs. And the user community (including this ng). And the good reselling value of HP calcs. And the fact that he'll belong to the chosen few. ;-) There is a whole lot more to these gadgets than just the cpu brand or the number of pixels on the screen. -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== Raul Lion escreveu nas not222cias de mensagem:b1f5ba59.0111250159.604266f9@posting.google.com... : spac wrote in message news:<9s96a1$9t3$1@news.wanadoo.es>... : > Hay alguna diferencia entre hacerlo para la hp48g+ y la hp48g? : : Hay quien hace estas ampliaciones en Valladolid (sirven a toda : Espa226a). Son los distribuidores de Cynox. Si necesitas m207s : informaci227n, m207ndame un correo. ps: yo estoy en Porto Alegre, Brasil. ==== URL is: http://www.shopping.hp.com/cgi-bin/hpdirect/shopping/scripts/product_detail/ pro duct_detail_view.jsp?product_code=48GX%23ABA&aoid=1431&script_name=product.c gi ==== Hi all! Tried to solve 'X^2+Y=2' for X in real mode and X and Y in the list REALASSUME. Result:{} for no solution. Then I changed to complex mode and tried to solve again. Results: {X=SQRT(-(Y-2))*-1 X=SQRT(-(Y-2))} Now, why does the calc say that there are no real solutions? If Y<=2 then the solutions are real. I thought that it is because the solutions are complex when Y>2. So I tried to solve 'X^2+Y*X=-2' in real mode and with X and Y in the list REALASSUME again. Results: { X=-(Y+SQRT(Y^2-8))/2 X=-(Y-SQRT(Y^2-8))/2 } . These solutions are complex for -2*SQRT(2) <3C0E53B4.512E3152@fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ==== Parisse Bernard wrote: Could you clarify this a bit? With which setting of the flag does it assume the variables to be near 0? Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them. ICQ# 103670088 -- Harry S. Truman ==== Parisse Bernard wrote in message news:<3C0E53B4.512E3152@fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr>... Two questions Mr. Parisse. 1) Why is the assumption Y<=2 not precice enough? As I said, even with this assumption I get no solution in real mode, though it is exactly this assumption that makes the solutions real. 2) Why is the automatic assumption made? And why does it take overhand even when I explicitely assume that Y<=0? Greetings, Nick. ==== Thomas Rast wrote in message news:<3C0E5F62.A80F2978@iname.com>... Hi Thomas! The flag for ascending/descending powers is -114 I think. But for the very first time I hear about this flag making assumptions about variables and overriding the assumptions that I made. The documentation says only that it lets you deside if you want, for example a quadratic polynomial to be *displayed* as a*x^2+b*x+c or c+b*x+a*x^2 . But nothing about such hidden assumptions. How much of this hidden information do we have to search for? And what kind of calc design is this, that just ignores my explicit assumptions without even telling me about it? Grmpf! (Calm down Nick, the pH of your stomach is already -8 ) Greetings, Nick. ==== Hi! Does anybody purchased recently at Calcpro.com? Is it really safe for international shipping?. Please, tell me any known experiences. I'm asking this because in the homepage, www.calcpro.com, there's a link that says: VeriSign Secure Page: Click to verify. When I click on it I get a message that says that the certify has Expired. Why is that?. With this messagge, I'm not sure to buy online there. By the way, I'm buying the AUR for 48G, because I need to learn UserRPL. Is that a good source? (I've already read the Kalinowsky tutorial, but I need more information). Any information will help. Thanks in advance!! Camilo _sorry if there's english mistakes_ :) ==== I just bought about $450 from them. They are excellent. Bill Underwood> Buying online at CalcPRO NNTP-Posting-Host: uds160-38.dial.hccnet.nl ==== Also have a look at the books from Donnely Caspar -- Camilo V schreef in bericht news:21fc50d3.0112041352.1f52e369@posting.google.com... X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: <8%vP7.789$292.212253@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net> ==== Caspar Lugtmeier & Eva Skotarczak wrote in message news:9ulm5i$lm0$1@news.hccnet.nl... By any chance do you have any title names? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== Just download the catalog in pdf format from http://www.calcpro.com/. They are all listed there. -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== Yes. These are on my shopping list too. :) -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== Jean-Yves Avenard wrote in message news:... Hi Jean-Yves :) Ok, I've been fooled by Eduardo's writing about doing SysRPL on the 49, where he says that the DBUG environment is suitable for SysRPL too. I'll try Jazz49, then! Thanks for answering, I really appreciated it. Greetings, Marco Mime-Version: 1.0 ==== HI If I write REMAINDER(x^5,x^4+x^3+x^2+1) The answer is right x^2-x+1 but if I write REMAINDER(x^14+x^12+x^11+x^10+x^8+x^4+x^3+x,x^4+x+1) the answer is -(2*x^2+x+1) (Yes it's right) but I don't like it, I need answer is X+1 How I get the easy answer. If I write QUOT(x^14+x^12+x^11+x^10+x^8+x^4+x^3+x,x^4+x+1) the answer is x^10+x^8+x^5+x^2+1 => OK I Use HP 49G Revision #1.18 Sorry about my english. I can read but not write -Ville- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ==== ville wrote: ==== ville wrote in message news:<3C0B4859.38ADB1EE@hotmail.com>... I think, I didn't understand you, Ville. How can the remainder be X+1 (what you want) if in fact it is -(2*x^2+x+1) ? Can you please explain a little bit more? Greetings, Nick. ==== ville wrote in message news:<3C0BEE1A.399ABEFE@hotmail.com>... Hi Ville I think Nick is right - you cannot reach the result you want (x+1). Please, can you write some additional info about that? BR Johny Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== That's like asking the sun to orbit around the earth because you want it that way. ;-) The result of a polynomial division is unique, so you'll just have to put up with the result. Maybe you meant something else? Then explain. -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ==== ville wrote: Sorry It is my mistake (again) Now I try write some additional info about divide a polynomial if I write DIV2MOD(x^14+x^12+x^11+x^10+x^8+x^4+x^3+x,x^4+x+1) the answer is -(X+1) It is OK and I can use the result. I must set MODSTO => 2 My first question was not very exact. Thanks for all Sorry about my english. I can read but not write -Ville- ==== ville wrote in message news:<3C0D3E96.216862F7@hotmail.com>... Aha! Now I got it. Thank you for explaining. :-) Yep! And you found this without help. So who said that th 49 is not intuitiv? ;-) Oh, but it woke the quriosity of the cat. ;-) Greetings and stay tuned, Nick. ==== Anybody knows if EMU48 runs under Windows CE or any other Palmtop OS (Epoc, etc.)? If not, is any version running under such OSs planned? Thanx in advance -- Marco Polo marco.polo@katai.cina Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== Marco Polo schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:9ugevo$ok$1@nreadb.inwind.it... Yes, there is at least one version of Emu48 for WinCE. Take a look at www.hpcalc.org/emulators Raymond ==== In article <9ugevo$ok$1@nreadb.inwind.it>, Marco Polo writes: It runs under PocketPC really nice.. You should check this site: http://web.jet.es/leobueno/emu48.htm Of course, Jean Yves could update his website with an emu48 version compiled by himself that runs quite well (in my hp jornada 525 was the only that runs) ;-) Probably Jean Yves could update his entire site ;-))) Cheers, J.Manrique CdU de la ETSIG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== Yes, I see, thanks for the info. The 49G CAS surely takes some time to learn. Maybe a 49G CAS For Dummies guide would be a nice homework project for your students? I think many here could benefit (me too). :) -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag NNTP-Posting-Host: mix-grenoble-110-4-104.abo.wanadoo.fr Mime-Version: 1.0 ==== I don't find the examples I tested 2 or 3 years ago, but maybe the tests I use for giac will do the job: ((x+y)^2-(z+1)^2)^n/(x+y+z+1)^(2*n) where n is a small integer (e.g. n=3) Expand numerator and denominator then simplify the fraction. (The 49 returns the answer in about 33s. for n=3) ==== Hi number one! rcobo@eng.morgan.edu wrote in message news:... The way it should be, but someone out there decided that this isn't the right thing. Computers should (not) work to feed him. You know, the guy with the M$ logo tatoed on his belly. ;-) ...snipped rest... Greetings, Nick. ==== cybernesto wrote in message news:<9u898n$l2$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>... All these things like BORG and dark side are just jokes. Actually I still don't know why darkness has to be a synonym for bad. Greetings, Nick, the oldie or archeo-man if you like ;-) ==== Parisse Bernard wrote in message news:<3C07D781.D85EE7CD@fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr>... But my bi-optical system (eyes), sees in s^8*c^6 something easier for perception than s^8*(s+1)^3*(s-1)^3. Anyway, should I suppose that for a polynomial system the easyness of an expression is measured by the number of variables? Just for quriosity. Is there any other criterion for measuring the easyness/simplicity of an expression? Perhaps number of bytes, or overall length? Hmmm, you are right. It is only that such easy cases can occur as intermediate results in more lengthy calculations/programs, where they would make things more complicated. I don't have a TI (yet) to answer this but the HP49G returns the fully factored expression. :-) Simplified greetings Nick. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== Psychology? Men fear death as children fear to go in the dark. Francis Bacon -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag NNTP-Posting-Host: hhi504.stud.uni-karlsruhe.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 ==== Parisse Bernard schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: 3C0B1D29.96E79A06@fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr... (examples?) Keep searching. This one took 28sec to expand and factor, returning (x+y-z-1)^3/(x+y+z+1)^3 ==== Parisse Bernard wrote: I get (x+y-z-1)^3/(x+y+z+1)^3 [just the factoring, for n=3] in about 22.9 seconds. Bhuvanesh. NNTP-Posting-Host: mix-grenoble-105-3-110.abo.wanadoo.fr Mime-Version: 1.0 ==== What about larger n? 4? 5? Another explanation might be that TI eventually decided to improve their GCD algorithm... NNTP-Posting-Host: mix-grenoble-103-2-92.abo.wanadoo.fr Mime-Version: 1.0 ==== cybernesto a 216crit : You know, I don't have to search a long time to find examples of problems that the TI can not solve (e.g. you can not factor (x^3+x+1)(x^4+x+1) once expanded or try to find the Taylor expansion at x=0 at order 5 of e.g. (cos(tan(x))-1)/(sin(x)*asin(x)). My aim was not to demonstrate that the HP is superior to the TI unlike you seemed to do in the converse way. I was just curious to know if they had made some improvements. In fact there are area where each calculator has its strengths. The HP has more built-in advanced maths functions, but it requires to know more maths to use it efficiently. It's a little bit like Unix vs Windows. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ==== Parisse Bernard wrote: And that is why I prefer the HP49 over the TI89. You cant find the basis or image of a matrix with the TI, for instance. And the HP performs a qr-decomposition which leaves you with an answer that you can compare to the expected result. The QR decomposition on the TI (as well as a similar QR on the HP) gives you a result that makes you wonder where the matrix you had on the stack went, and where those other came from. ==== Raymond Kristiansen wrote: It is easy to add such functionality with user-programs. That is the point of the programming languages (as well as to solve specific problems). I don't understand. Can you give an example? Bhuvanesh. ==== Parisse Bernard wrote: asin(x) means ArcSin(x), correct? My program can find numerical series for this. Exactly what I keep saying :) Bhuvanesh. ==== Parisse Bernard wrote: Seems OK: n=4: 63.3 seconds n=5: 173.4 seconds n=6: 417.4 seconds Still, (naturally) Mathematica is better at it (in terms of time complexity): In[1]:= expr = ((x + y)^2 - (z + 1)^2)^n / (x + y + z + 1)^(2*n); In[2]:= expanded = Table[ Expand[expr], {n,3,6} ]; In[3]:= Table[ Timing[Factor[ expanded[[i]] ]], {i,1,Length[expanded]} ] 3 4 (-1 + x + y - z) (-1 + x + y - z) Out[3]= {{0.03 Second, -----------------}, {0.03 Second, -----------------}, 3 4 (1 + x + y + z) (1 + x + y + z) 5 6 (-1 + x + y - z) (-1 + x + y - z) 5 6 (1 + x + y + z) (1 + x + y + z) In[4]:= $ProgramName <> <> $Version Out[4]= Mathematica 4.1 for Linux (June 13, 2001) Bhuvanesh. NNTP-Posting-Host: mix-grenoble-104-3-91.abo.wanadoo.fr Mime-Version: 1.0 ==== Definitively proves that they have improved their algorithms. How much time for n=10? What is your processor? Just curious to compare with giac (compiled without optimizations I need 6s for n=10 on a PIII-500). NNTP-Posting-Host: mix-grenoble-105-1-120.abo.wanadoo.fr Mime-Version: 1.0 ==== Bhuvanesh a 216crit : indeed, asin (ASIN) is the notation on the HP49. What do you mean by numerical series? Approx? (I don't see any reason not to be able to find an exact series expansion) ==== lalu_bhatt@yahoo.com (Bhuvanesh) writes: This won't expand the denominator. Try: In[2]:= expanded = Table[Expand[Numerator[expr]]/Expand[Denominator[expr]], {n,3,10}]; Then: In[3]:= Table[ Timing[Factor[ expanded[[i]] ]], {i,1,Length[expanded]} ] 3 4 (-1 + x + y - z) (-1 + x + y - z) Out[3]= {{0.02 Second, -----------------}, {0.03 Second, -----------------}, 3 4 (1 + x + y + z) (1 + x + y + z) 5 6 (-1 + x + y - z) (-1 + x + y - z) 5 6 (1 + x + y + z) (1 + x + y + z) 7 8 (-1 + x + y - z) (-1 + x + y - z) 7 8 (1 + x + y + z) (1 + x + y + z) 9 10 (-1 + x + y - z) (-1 + x + y - z) 9 10 (1 + x + y + z) (1 + x + y + z) This is on a 800MHz PIII (100MHz FSB) running Linux kernel 2.2 Scott -- Scott Hemphill hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu This isn't flying. This is falling, with style. -- Buzz Lightyear ==== Scott Hemphill wrote: Oops, I should have glanced at the output :# (embarassed) Bhuvanesh. ==== nk@imos-consulting.com (Nick Karagiaouroglou) wrote: Something like ComplexityFunction->LeafCount ? There could be thousands of other criteria for simplicity, including the presence of a particular symbol (FreeQ), the number of occurrences of a symbol (Count), memory needed (ByteCount), ..., and including combinations of these. Bhuvanesh. ==== lalu_bhatt@yahoo.com (Bhuvanesh) wrote in message news:<662e00ed.0112041716.5a68b6c0@posting.google.com>... Hi Bhuvanesh! I see. What we regard easy or simple can't be programed with just a few lines. Apparently it is not very easy to explain how our pattern recognition software in our brain works, when it says to us that something is more simplified than something else. I just wondered if it would be possible to imitate this with software for computers, but you just told me that it is more complicated than it seems. Thanks for the info. Aavjo, Nick. ==== nk@imos-consulting.com (Nick Karagiaouroglou) wrote: Hi Nick, It is made more difficult because 'simple' may mean something different for different people. For example, some people might prefer an answer to a definite integral in terms of a bunch of logs and zetas, while some might prefer a more compact (and more 'abstract') answer in terms of generalized hypergeometrics. Ja sou, Bhuvanesh. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== Hi, Nick. Even worse: you cannot program it at all. Automatic simplification opens a whole can of worms, err, I wanted to say undecidable problems. Just as you can't decide the halting problem for the Turing machine, you cannot decide whether a given reduction sequence in a (sufficiently powerful) rewriting system will ever reach an end (let alone work out a strategy to perform an optimal sequence of rewriting steps). You also cannot decide in general whether a given expression is reducible to another given expression. I strongly suspect that the problem to determine an optimal representation for most interesting optimality measures (like smallest-size equivalent expression) is non-computable as well. You see, it's not just that manual rewriting is good for your brain, the computer simply cannot do it automatically, at least not in full generality. :) There might be some reasonable heuristic methods, though. Cheers, Albert -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== lalu_bhatt@yahoo.com (Bhuvanesh) wrote in message news:<662e00ed.0112051132.561fe57@posting.google.com>... Oh, I meant only such things that are in the simplest form by common sence. Like the trigonometric identities in this thread. But then again, what is common sence? Aavjo, Nick. P.S. And since when do greeks (especially some incompatible guys amon them) have common sence? ;-) ==== Sadly, I need to part with these calculators. I have an HP 48G with the original box, manuals, etc. in excellent condition (other than having my name etched into its back :-( ). Asking $35 + shipping and handling from zip code 61114. I am also selling my HP 48GX. This calculator served me well all through college. I have the box, manuals, case, etc. This time, I used the name plate, though. :-) Asking $100 + shipping from zip code 61114. Both calcs are the last revision for the HP 48 series. Please email me directly as I do not often check this group. Thanks, J. Biddle X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 ==== http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1303647868 currently $76 ==== http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1303647868 goes for more than $150 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 ==== Hi All: I have a couple of questions that I hope you guys can help with: 1) On the HP97, must the battery pack be good for the calculator to work? I checked the power supply and it is good, and I'm getting about +1v dc across the calculator terminals in the battery compartment when the calc is plugged in, but I think the battery pack is defunct. 2) Can the MetaKernel be installed on a card in slot 2 of the HP48, or can it be used only from slot 1? I got a Cynox 2 meg card, and of course I can put it only in slot 2..... Thanks in advance Roger Arlington, Texas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ==== Hi Roger, To be honest I don't know the answer to your questions. But maybe you could have a look at www.hpmuseum.org. There are some HP users on the museum forum that will know the answer to your first question. Arnold On Wed, 05 Dec 2001 17:18:29 GMT, Roger Metcalf DDS wrote: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ==== Hi Roger, Roger Metcalf DDS writes: Not sure about this but it seems that 1V would not be enough. Are you sure the power supply is good? You can only run MK from slot one. Now, theoretically you ~can~ put the card in slot one and run MK that way but you give up the additional 128k banks in doing so and I think there nmay be some other caveats to be aware of though I cannot recall them right now. I know you can do it though as I did just such a thing long ago. Rgds, -Al -- -Al Arduengo ------------ /earth is 98-1.994645ull ... please delete anyone you can. -- -Al Arduengo ------------ I'll never forget the first time I ran Windows, but I'm trying. X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 ==== Al Arduengo wrote in message news:87pu5th1in.fsf@austin.rr.com... work? I is The power supply is putting out nearly 9v ac--the 1v dc is at the terminals inside the battery compartment and that didn't seem like very much to me either..... Thanks, Roger Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ==== On Wed, 05 Dec 2001 17:18:29 GMT, Roger Metcalf DDS wrote: I just looked in my HP25 Manual and it says that the Battery Pack must be in place for it to work properly(Using the charger to power the calculator). I am assuming that your are talking about Re-Chargable Ni Cads I think this is the case for all HP calcs before the HP28. One of the professors in the Physics Dept. took apart an old battery pack, replaced the Ni-Cad cells, put the battery pack back together and went on his merry way. On of my engineering profs did the same thing for an HP 67, which still works BTW. You will have to find out the specs for the cells and shop around for cells that fit the specs. You have to be real careful splitting apart the battery pack. I think most were sonicly welded together. Harold A. Climer Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy U. Tennessee at Chattanooga ==== Ricardo Blasco Serrano escreveu nas not222cias de mensagem:3BF70D60.B1193C04@teleline.es... : > 1)100-120 KB : > 2)80-99 KB : > 3)60-79 KB : > 4)40-59 KB : > 5)20-39 KB : > 6)< than 19 KB : : Usually 6. Mine is a G+. : I use Jazz (light) + Hptables + ...... : xDD me is 2 w/ 2 mb ram card: merged port 1, i use erable, alg48, CAS48, misc apps and some games. : > ps: do u have a good ti92 emulator? please mail me renanbirc(@)brasnet.org [remove the ()]. : : Search for vti (windows). Try www.ticalc.org : : Regards : : Ricardo : : -- : : Linux Registered User: 202 170 : Kernel 2.2.19 : http://xie121.infovia.xtec.es/~rblasco/ : : Un222os, hermanos linuxeros : 640 Kb de memoria son m207s que suficientes (IBM AT Designers - 1982) : Bueno, espero que esto no aparezca en la versi227n final (Bill Gates en la presentaci227n de Windows Crash Debug '98) : : ==== Only curiosity: Why are not you using MetaKernel? References: <9t6po0$mrph$4@ID-88878.news.dfncis.de> <3BF70D60.B1193C04@teleline.es> <9uedda$7qnrm$4@ID-88878.news.dfncis.de> ==== Mine is a G+ Sipomply because of that Regards Ricardo -- Linux Registered User: 202 170 Kernel 2.2.19 http://193.145.89.239/~rblasco/ Un222os, hermanos linuxeros 640 Kb de memoria son m207s que suficientes (IBM AT Designers - 1982) Bueno, espero que esto no aparezca en la versi227n final (Bill Gates en la presentaci227n de Windows Crash Debug '98) ==== The question was made to EuMess, who have got a GX with 2Mb RAM card, merged port 1... (Ricardo, ¿sabes que los de Cynox, ampl222an la G+ en pocos d222as, aqu222 en Valladolid?) Ricardo Blasco Serrano wrote in message news:<3C0D373A.948F03D6@teleline.es>... ==== Sip, xo solo la uso para programar, y ciertamente tener o no tener metakernel no aporta grandes diferencias. Uso JAZZ y ED. Gracias d todos modos Ricardo P.D: de todos modos alguna vez he pensado en ampliarla, pero quizas me gustaria hacerlo yo xD -- Linux Registered User: 202 170 Kernel 2.2.19 http://193.145.89.239/~rblasco/ Un222os, hermanos linuxeros 640 Kb de memoria son m207s que suficientes (IBM AT Designers - 1982) Bueno, espero que esto no aparezca en la versi227n final (Bill Gates en la presentaci227n de Windows Crash Debug '98) References: <3bff133d@news> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.145.205.253 X-Trace: corp.newsgroups.com 1007430468 208.145.205.253 (3 Dec 2001 19:47:48 -0600) Lines: 31 ==== howard wrote: The following is a comprehensive set of *HP48G* programs, but note that The code is in UserRPL and some (very little) SysRPL, so that porting may not be difficult (ask again for help, since these can not be directly loaded into an HP49G :) http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/apps/misc/fin421b.zip Author MacDonald R. Phillips describes the capabilities: The 11 programs are EQV, TVM, capital budgeting (IRR, NPV, NUS, NFV), generalized IRR and NPV calculations, bonds, stocks, depreciation, options, inflation adjustments, simple interest, and discounted securities using the GDP or CPI indexes. An elementary subset of the above (TVM, IRR, NPV, NFV): http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=86k62d%248ks%241%40nnrp1.deja.com http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=4oe1ub%243mi%40news.iastate.edu http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&selm=an_360304759 (follow the embedded still-working Deja links [!] for more stuff) [r->][OFF] -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- ==== Hello everybody. Android HP48/49 ML game new level pack available here : www.jadeware.org -- A+ jmeyer@jadeware.org ==== Greattt :) Could you also add the HP40 version in your pack (http://perso.atsat.com/pigallio/Hp48/conversions.htm) ? Thanks. Julien Meyer wrote in message news:9ul2dp$6ri$1@wanadoo.fr... ==== Julien Meyer wrote in message news:<9ul2dp$6ri$1@wanadoo.fr>... Cool =) Thanks! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Proxy-Client: cung@uiuc.edu from lincoln-pl-5.flexabit.net ==== hmmm all this talk is getting me wary about the calculator world. seems like if really will be stopping all calculator production, there will be no where else to go except TI????? i'd like to use the HP's for a long time (RPN is nice), but if they are really leaving the market, i dunno.... seems like i might have to goto TI sometime. Nick Karagiaouroglou wrote in message news:cd9ca36b.0111260331.6e55c1d7@posting.google.com... news:... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== like if else nice), but to I doubt that TI, without any real competition left, will have a great incentive to improve their latest crop of calculators anytime soon. So the 48GX and 49G might still be a viable alternative for quite some time. As long as HP keeps selling them or they are available on ebay for a reasonable prize. -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== Yes, it seems that assimilation is unavoidable in the long run. Only hope that the independend freaks of this group out there will make new calcs. If they do, I'm going to buy them. Rcobo, Steen and all the others, you already have a customer. ;-) Greetings, Nick. gc wrote in message news:... ==== Julian Fondren escreveu nas not222cias de mensagem:76ea4fd3.0111180624.c7f8165@posting.google.com... : /me? wrote in message news:<9t6pn9$mrph$1@ID-88878.news.dfncis.de>... : > For General Math, 49G is good, but for specialized math 48GX is best. : : This is an interesting distinction, but could you please define it? 48GX has more specific programs(math, eng., chem., etc...) and it's expansible. 49G has built in CAS and good features, don't need CAS48 or erable. : > 48GX does allow upgrad to 2 MB ram! it's neas a palm pc! : : I've heard 4MB too. References: <20011127002600.02455.00001510@mb-fi.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.145.205.253 X-Trace: corp.newsgroups.com 1007425539 208.145.205.253 (3 Dec 2001 18:25:39 -0600) Lines: 35 ==== Ranger CAP (Brian with a new handle?) wrote: Pre-stored HP48 objects are, unfortunately, almost always *incompatible* with the HP49. But if the card in question turns out to contain UserRPL programs, and if you still have the HP48 into which to plug the card, then you may be able to transmit the programs in decompiled (ascii) form, causing them to be automatically recompiled on the HP49 (keep it in Approximate mode while doing this). Some SysRPL programs might also be decompiled and transferred, but the percentage of compatibility may drop, depending upon how the programs were written, how many unsupported internal functions they used, etc. If you mean commercial rom libraries, then it also depends on whether you can get a library splitter which works on them, and a library builder which will rebuild them, depending on how many tricks the original writer employed to try to slow you down in this pursuit. [r->] [OFF] -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- ==== Leave it up to Yahoo to do something like this. The ring is listed as having 138 sites in it ( eg. after doing a search for HP48 at http://webring.yahoo.com/ ) but when you pull up a full list http://m.webring.com/hub?ring=hp48&list you only get eleven. This also applies to other webrings such as the F&G HP48 ring. ( only 3 sites ) Anyone know what is going on? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - Remove the random permutation of NOSPAM from my e-mail address before replying. charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal ==== Jonathan Busby wrote in message news:0mqp0ugrg0d6jo4u1gu1n2cbid2pvm6q1q@4ax.com... Every former Yahoo WR member should know what's going on: -- `What a depressingly stupid machine' Detlef Mueller -- Marvin Detlef[DOT]M[AT]hamburg[DOT]de http://mein.hamburg.de/homepage/grendel Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ==== On Tue, 4 Dec 2001 09:36:27 -0800, Detlef Mueller wrote: Thanks for the info. I'm glad this isn't just restricted to the HP48 rings ;). Heh, anyway it turns out that there was a link to this news on http://webring.yahoo.com/ but of course in my haste to post I overlooked it. Maybe I should pay more attention next time. ;) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - Remove the random permutation of NOSPAM from my e-mail address before replying. ==== Jonathan Busby wrote: Each website has to transfer to a new WebRing system, so only the websites that do so will be listed. I had to create a new account for the new WebRing system. Bhuvanesh. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.145.205.253 X-Trace: corp.newsgroups.com 1007433467 208.145.205.253 (3 Dec 2001 20:37:47 -0600) Lines: 26 ==== Glen T wrote: The HP49 may be weighty in functionality (and lite in documentation :) but I never found weighted stats in it, either. However, what HP48 program was that? Is it in UserRPL? Then just transfer it (in ascii) to your HP49 (but set your HP49 to Approximate mode before downloading) E.g. WEIGHT3 (latest version, posted 1997/03/29) http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=5hipnp%24oq0%241%40news.iastate.edu [r->] [OFF] -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- ==== santos_lucero@no.spam.ni (Santos Lucero) writes: HP 49G BASIC *is* algebraic mode. They're one and the same. Calling it BASIC was a failed attempt at a Marketing Breakthrough. charset=Windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal ==== GR wrote in message news:u0icb1k0tid47d@corp.supernews.com... http://www.hp.com/calculators/techsupport/graphing/49g_userguide -- `What a depressingly stupid machine' Detlef Mueller -- Marvin Detlef[DOT]M[AT]hamburg[DOT]de http://mein.hamburg.de/homepage/grendel ==== just make sure you buy a huge pack of paper and print 2 pages of text per page. I did it at school with the fast printers, and it took like an hour to print the advancerd users guide, and they made me bring in my own paper because it was so much to use of theirs. Mine takes up a big 3 ring binder. GR wrote in message news:u0icb1k0tid47d@corp.supernews.com... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== Hello together, are there people out there who are using the HP49 SDK 1v5 Build 136 (_not_ Build 127 or 128) with the integrated emulator Emu48 (v1.22) DLL? I optimized the debugger interface in the forthcoming Emu48.exe version (v1.29), so that it's possible to use the main menu commands while the debugger is running (ie. Backup Save/Restore can work on ASM opcode level now). If there're enough interests I will add the changes to the Emu48 DLL version. Please use this NG thread for discussion, so that also CdB can see, that his program is still in use (or not). Hello Cyrille, are you hopefully somewhere out there? Regards Christoph BTW, it's really nice from some HP users. In the last time I get about 4 SIRCAM and 3 W32/Badtrans (ok, it's out for a week now, and I got 3 so far) infected mails per week. Ops, I forgot the Nimda ones. I only use my Email address in this NG and on HP related connections. Is it possible for you to use virus scanner with actual signature files? It's really annoying. charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal ==== Christoph Giesselink wrote in message news:9ughab$sgl$04$1@news.t-online.com... :-) Get used to it. It started for me w/ Hybris in oct last year and I virtually got _every_ new high distribution rate virus since then (have 7 in my collection. Which one you're missing ? ;) -- usually 2-5 per day (it's kind of funny that I don't get any spam though...). It's not a usenet problem (as long you obfuscate your email address), when changing my email address earlier this year the virii reappeared as soon I changed my webpage... At least the SirCam is fun (I got quite some weird files/docs) Bye, Detlef -- `What a depressingly stupid machine' Detlef Mueller -- Marvin Detlef[DOT]M[AT]hamburg[DOT]de http://mein.hamburg.de/homepage/grendel ==== Hello, I'm using the HP49 SDK 1v5 Build 136 and it would be great to have a better integration of Emu48! Thanks in advance. Greetings AM X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 ==== I use 136 as well. Though I must admit with work and all it's been a long time since I've needed to use my calculator.... Christoph Giesselink wrote in message news:9ughab$sgl$04$1@news.t-online.com... see, hopefully far) to ==== Recent events relating to HP and ACO reminded me of an old site I once read, and, looking back at it, I think it applies. see http://www.cluetrain.org/ (be sure to read the 95 Theses) ==== cleverjulian@hotmail.com (Julian Fondren) wrote in message news:<76ea4fd3.0112021357.4a69ba67@posting.google.com>... Worth reading every single word, Julian. But I doubt that companies will realize that and come out of their ivory towers in the next future. I rather think that they will do so, when they are just about to lose their last customers. Until then, they look at the mirror, admiring how smart and beautiful they are, while customers are telling them how stupid they are. Greetings, Nick. X-Proxy-Client: cung@uiuc.edu from lincoln-pl-5.flexabit.net ==== is hp going to still make calculators for a while? (i mean manufacture, not develop) ==== They'll manufacture them until the Saturn processor stock is finished. After that no more HPs (or that's what it seems..) Regards Ricardo -- Linux Registered User: 202 170 Kernel 2.2.19 http://193.145.89.239/~rblasco/ Un222os, hermanos linuxeros 640 Kb de memoria son m207s que suficientes (IBM AT Designers - 1982) Bueno, espero que esto no aparezca en la versi227n final (Bill Gates en la presentaci227n de Windows Crash Debug '98) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 ==== I'd give it less than 1 year Ricardo Blasco Serrano wrote in message news:3C0BDFEF.C600925E@teleline.es... not After Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== I've asked you before (in another thread) and I do it again: Do you have any concrete figures backing up your opinion? I.e., how many calcs and processors does HP have in stock, and how many calcs do they sell a year? -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 ==== I don't have figures, sorry, but all HP calcs are NOT being sold in a major US Office chain. The competitors dropped them long before. Albert Graef wrote in message news:9ugoa0$ed0$03$1@news.t-online.com... any Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== major But how can you estimate a time span if you don't have any figures? No problem getting them here in Germany, if you don't mind to order online. Others have reported that they're still available in US shops as well, see, e.g., this thread on the MoHPC forum: http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi?read=12877. Well, just in case, I just bought a 48GX on ebay. Prizes are still reasonable, so they're not considered as collector items yet. ;-) -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== OfficeDepot has stopped selling them. I haven't checked Staples, but that store is only like 2 years old. OfficeMax, CompUSA, BestBuy, CircuitCity, etc etc. Service Merchandise, don't sell them. No trace of them there, not even the displays. I've approximated a year since that is about the longest something sits on a shelf..given the semiconductor distribution/manufacturing channel that i work in Albert Graef wrote in message news:9ugpv0$c2k$04$1@news.t-online.com... see, ==== web-user wrote in message news:... I do not see the difficulty. I can get a HP49G within two days from a local supplier in Regional Australia. I am told that you can still buy them off the shelf in many of the major cities in Australia. ==== The 39G is still available with no trouble in Australia. I haven't checked on the 49 - not my machine. Timothy Ney wrote: -- Colin Croft Old mathematicians never die; they just lose some of their functions. ====================================== Applications in Mathematics ccroft@iinet.net.au http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/ ====================================== ==== Officedepot has both the HP48gx and the HP49 in stock as of Dec 04, 2001 9:47 EST on their website. web-user wrote in message <6IRO7.37130$Lc.1311482@sjcpnn01.usenetserver.com>... ==== You don't understand, the computer at OfficeDepot says not to be replenished and if you click on TechDepot within the OfficeDepot website, the price is John B. Coarsey wrote in message news:Wk5P7.26626$ph6.2433647@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net... major have year? ==== and ask that store, they might still say after checking ya, nothing has changed but the stock is drying up. they probably might get another shipment, but that's it, the channel is drying up folks!! Colin Croft wrote in message news:3C0CCD74.229856DB@iinet.net.au... checked on the 49 - not my machine. news:... that Merchandise, sits on a i in a No online. well, http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi?read=12877. ==== Thomas Rast escreveu nas not222cias de mensagem:3BF537EC.8AC345C2@iname.com... : Stephen wrote: : > : > Thats good to hear. I have a 12 yo who will be needing a calculator next : > year. I've suggested getting him a HP but the wife, who works at the : > school, says No, the school is only recommending TI##. He'll be confused : > if he has a different calculator to everyone else. : : Same with TI =) I still remember that geography test where we needed the : cube root - as you may know, the 92+ does not have an XROOT key. The : *whole* class asked how they could get it... : : It all depends on how good you know to use your calculator. You need to : be able of taking advance of its features, and working around its flaws. : That's the same, no matter which brand you choose. : : Thomas go w/ (s)he to the store and let it try ti92 and hp49. you yould get a more simpler calculator, like hp28 ou 39. it would find it easier to use :D (i am 14, FYI) : -- : Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, : t.rast@iname.com confuse them. : ICQ# 103670088 -- Harry S. Truman ==== Thomas Rast wrote: I wasn't talking about you personally :), but about students who want their calculator to do all the work for them. This would probably be the case no matter which brand you choose. That is what I mean: when studying calculus, the student should not have a calculator that can solve calculus problems. When you know the math reasonably well, then you can use the calculator to make your life much easier :) The first sentence is probably true but the second one is not, unfortunately. I keep seeing posts like: I need this statistics program, or I'll fail my test. The HP49/TI89 is so cool, I got A's without having to study anything. I don't know how bad the situation is in Europe, though. This will continue to be a big problem until educators write new kinds of tests where it is harder for students to cheat with their mini-computers. Bhuvanesh. ==== lalu_bhatt@yahoo.com (Bhuvanesh) wrote in message news:<662e00ed.0112022123.2c886c35@posting.google.com>... Yikes! That almost makes such calculators a *weapon*. Here, lazy person I don't like, take this calculator and build for yourself shaky foundations which can only fail you later in life... bwahahahha! Or, better yet, recognize that such students are only going to cheat anyway and that it's rediculous to make things harder on others who won't. ==== In message <9uais4$cue$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>, Timbo writes How 'bout calling the wonderful people who sold it to you? Dell really do support their products, and anything non-Dell too, in any bundle that's supposed to work together.... -- Roy Brown 'Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be Kelmscott Ltd useful, or believe to be beautiful' William Morris ==== SNIP SNIP Did not HP release the HP41/71/75 source under a NOMAS (no manufacturer support ) arrangement ? checkout ==== Ayr College User writes: The HP-71B source code was actually *officially* released in printed form, and supported. ==== Hello I would like to know how to save a Matrix 3x3 for example in a variable that keep the same name for example Tony but it changes values every time i use it in different calculus..... i explain better: in Equation Writer there is a var called EQ that every time changes his values when i use it,well i want a var called Tony made with an array , a matrix, whose behaviour is like EQ for equation writer!!!!!!! Thanks Albe ==== Alberto wrote in message news:... Hi Alberto! The variables that keep automatically the new contents after some changes have been made are the reserved variables of the system. Unfortunately Tony doesn't belong to this group, which means that if you want Tony to be refreshed, then you must put him under the shower, errhhh I mean of course, you must program the HP49G to do so. For example you can use 'Tony' STO to store the matrix on stack level one. Note also that if you use some inform screen (like the one in SOLVE LINEAR SYSTEM ) then you can press the soft menu key for CHOOSE and get the contents of Tony (or someone else) in the input field. But when you use something that changes the contents of that field (SOLVE etc) then the contents of Tony remain unchanged. This is a bit different from the behavior of the equation solver where the new values of variables are automatically kept, even if the variables doesn't belong to the reserved system variables. That means that if you solve an equation, like 'Tony+Curtis+Roger+Moore=2', for the variable Tony in the numeric equation solver, then Tony will be refreshed and keep the new solution any time you solve the equation. Greetings, Nick. ==== Hi Everybody! If you Cos(4x)= 3/4 And u want to find Tan(x)? How do you solve that? With HP49G or without! Thanks ==== vince writes: Is this a homework problem? Use a half angle formula to find cos(2x). Then use half angles formulas to find cos(x) and sin(x). Then find tan(x) in terms of cos(x) and sin(x). The result can be simplified to the form tan(x) = sqrt(m) - sqrt(n), where m and n are integers. Scott -- Scott Hemphill hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu This isn't flying. This is falling, with style. -- Buzz Lightyear ==== acos(cos(4x))=acos(3/4) 4x=acos(3/4) x=(1/4)*acos(3/4) tan(x)=tan((1/4*)acos(3/4)) ==== first solve for x then take the arctan of x vince wrote in message news:9ujpop$4ds$1@namru.matavnet.hu... ==== Scott Hemphill wrote in message news:... Yep! Ant to translate this in HP49G-ish : Enter COS(4*X)=3/4, use command HALFTAN twice and then EXPAND. You get: TAN(X)^4-6*TAN(X)^2+1 --------------------- = 3/4 TAN(X)^4+2*TAN(X)^2+1 Now enter TAN(X) and then use solve to find: { TAN(X)=-(2*SQRT(2)-7) TAN(X)=2*SQRT(2)-7 TAN(X)=-(2*SQRT(2)+7) TAN(X)=2*SQRT(2)+7 } Tangential greetings, Nick. NNTP-Posting-Host: line-209-183.dial.matav.net ==== Nick Karagiaouroglou wrote in message news:cd9ca36b.0112050457.5141b5f7@posting.google.com... news:... Thanks everybody, Especially Nick and Scott Is it possible to demonstrate all kinds of trig ids like: (2sinx)/(Cos^4(x)-sin^4(x))=(Tan(2x))/Cosx with the Trig Cas Menu? Thanks Vince ==== nk@imos-consulting.com (Nick Karagiaouroglou) writes: You left out some SQRTs when transcribing from the HP49G solution. And I forgot to mention that there were multiple solutions. Anyway, thanks for an instructive lesson on HP49G trig! Scott -- Scott Hemphill hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu This isn't flying. This is falling, with style. -- Buzz Lightyear ==== Scott Hemphill wrote in message news:... [Beeep-Oops!] [Bytes lost while transmitting...] [Try again] Solutions are: { TAN(X)=-(2*SQRT(2)-SQRT(7)) TAN(X)=2*SQRT(2)-SQRT(7) TAN(X)=-(2*SQRT(2)+SQRT(7)) TAN(X)=2*SQRT(2)+SQRT(7) } Hopefully got it right this time, thanks a lot for noticing my mistake, Scott. :-) Greetings^2, Nick. ==== vince wrote in message news:<9ul8rm$i8h$1@namru.matavnet.hu>... You're welcome, Vince! Many of them. Should I start a marathon-trigo-thread here? With crossovers to exponentials? Greetings, Nick. ==== Hi all I'm studying Economics in Budapest, Hungary. Unfortunetely I'm lagging in maths. I'm looking for private tutor this week and next week who may help me. It would be really great if he could as well to explain me how to solve some problems with my HP49G Vincent. vince0905@yahoo.fr ==== be sure to study the Austrian school of economics! www.mises.org ==== Hello, I´m from germany and I just bought the HP 49 G. But I have a problem with it. I don´t understand how I can get the master function (I don´t know how it is called in english, f. e. the master function to x is xhigh2/2). It is the function you get after the integration, in germany it is called Stammfunktion. The HP 49G always wants me to give him the borders for the integration and so he gives me the calculated result, but I need the master function. Is there a possibility to get it? Can I use the step by step mode to see how he gets the master function. I hope anybody understands what I mean, but it´s pretty difficult for me to describe something like this in english.. I would be glad if anybody could help me till friday, because there is an exam where I want to use the HP 49. Thank you, Torsten:) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== You're looking for the indefinite integral. Use INTVX (or RISCH if your integration variable is not the current VX). -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== substitute an alpha variable for the numbers. B intgr X DX A then the result when EVAL is -(1/2)*(B^2-A^2) ==== Hi, I have been playing with the System RPL commands related to the HP49 Filer, based on a document by Jean-Yves Avenard. However, there are still a few things which were not explained, and that I could not discover. Can Jean-Yves or anybody else give some light in this topic? The first things are the built-in actions ONE and TWO, cInfo and cHexa, respectively. When I tried to use this, I only got a Bad Argument Type error. The other thing are the custom-calls 22 and 23 (16h and 17h), which were not explained in that document. Does anybody have information on those? Thanks, -- Eduardo M Kalinowski ekalin@bol.com.br -- **Novo e-mail** **New e-mail** http://move.to/hpkb Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== Hi, Eduardo, no I don't have the information you're looking for. :( I just wanted to ask whether you'll publish your findings about the filer and the 49 inform engine on your hpkb site. That would be very nice. Or are you even working on the 2nd edition of your SysRPL book? Cheers, Albert -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ==== Can anyone tell me whether one programs can be transferred from the HP49G to run on the Jornada HH PC series? Or is the Jornada a completely different fish? Thanks. -e ==== In article <3C0BC39E.2050706@temple.edu>, Eric Foster writes: The hp49 is veeery different from an Hp Jornada. HP Jornada uses M$ Windows CE Operative System, so you could use hp49 emulator on it .. Some help would be thanked about the way to send files from hp49 to jornada, and the other way too.. Thanks, J.Manrique CdU de la ETSIG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== Well, if you can get emu48 to run, then you could simply transfer the files using the 49G filer (SEND/RECV). Of course you'll have to establish a physical connection. I guess you could somehow achieve this with the serial cable for the Jornada (part no. F1819A#ABA for the Jornada 5xx series). But I don't have a Jornada, so don't blame me if it doesn't work. -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== Hi all, anyone knows what ON-UP does? the data transmit indictor turn on, but I can imagine what it does. Thanks. References: <20011204.205412.653468858.1194@removelibero.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ==== Andrea Baccin wrote: Printscreen I think. You can use HP Comm to capture the image. Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them. ICQ# 103670088 -- Harry S. Truman Message-ID: References: <20011204.205412.653468858.1194@removelibero.it> ==== Screen dump, for use with the connectivity kit - Carsten AB> Hi all, AB> anyone knows what ON-UP does? the data transmit indictor turn on, but I AB> can imagine what it does. AB> Thanks. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== Nell'articolo <3C0D3138.A362C18F@iname.com>, Thomas Rast ha scritto: Thanks a lot ==== Hi, Jonathan! Thank you for your example in comp.sys.hp48. Since I know nothing in machine language (unfortunately), I would appreciate it if you could transfer it to binary form so I can easily download it to the calculator. Best regards, Tal. email: td@chem.ch.huji.ac.il ==== Hi, Jonathan! Thank you for your example in comp.sys.hp48. Since I know nothing in machine language (unfortunately) I would appreciate it if you could transfer it to binary form so I can easily download it to the calculator. Best regards, Tal. email: td@chem.ch.huji.ac.il Message-ID: <3TaP7.5590$Rw2.4035333@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> ==== I have a Mac serial cable kit for sale if anyone is interested.... -- <justin@mcs.net> Please remove from my address before replying. ==== JD wrote in message news:<3TaP7.5590$Rw2.4035333@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>... Yep, I am! Please mail me for more info. Greetings, Nick. ==== Hi, I was wondering if anyone is interested in a library to calculate: Service Limit State and Ultimate Limit State of concrete sections build of multiple rectangles; including (multiple) reinforcement bars and (multiple) prestressing strands; including normal force (of course); with configurable (3 or 5 point) stres-strain diagrams; input: section array rebar array prestressing strands array stress-strain diagram points bond behaviour of rebar/prestr. normal force ULS normal force SLS moment SLS initial stress prestressing output: ultimate moment capacity stress/strain of concrete, rebar and prestressing in ULS and SLS section properties (normal and elastic) Library can be used for beams and columns. Library is written in 100% SysRPL and includes custom written solver for SLS (Newton Rhapson method for two equations with two unknowns). Now only as HP48 version but if enough interest is there maybe an HP49 version will be created/ported. No manual available yet. If you are interested, please mail me. Caspar Lugtmeier author of FEM48/49 -- NNTP-Posting-Host: van132574-1.gw.connect.com.au ==== I'm interested. What codes will it use. Caspar Lugtmeier & Eva Skotarczak wrote in message news:9uj0m4$nur$1@news.hccnet.nl... strands; SysRPL NNTP-Posting-Host: uds160-38.dial.hccnet.nl ==== You can modify the stress-strain relationships, so it should be usable with most codes. I have a beta version ready (12 kB) that's (as far as I know) completely stable and works fine. I might add some more features later... Caspar -- Stephen schreef in bericht news:9ukh0g$1nr$1@merki.connect.com.au... message of two manual ==== Hey... Y'all are smart math gurus... ;-) What is the second derivative of 'x^2 + y^2 = 25' at the point (4,3) ?? -Palm Man X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 ==== (d/dx)(dy/dx) i think thats how ya write it. (hopefully, it should be -7/27) Alberto wrote in message news:MrcP7.240736$sq5.11688340@news.infostrada.it... NNTP-Posting-Host: millennium-ppp8.ccf.auth.gr ==== Palm Man wrote in message news:escP7.209897$3d2.9337543@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... Somebody?s homework? NNTP-Posting-Host: ai21.aula.eis.uva.es Mime-Version: 1.0 ==== G. Ilias escribi227: It's the same equation as the one used in 20 essential things... ==== Palm Man writes: Sorry, try again. I think you're at least close, but I can't pinpoint your error without seeing your work. -- Scott Hemphill hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu This isn't flying. This is falling, with style. -- Buzz Lightyear Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.145.205.253 X-Trace: corp.newsgroups.com 1007436503 208.145.205.253 (3 Dec 2001 21:28:23 -0600) Lines: 41 ==== A.G. wrote: The fact that the original question didn't even need to specify the TI calculator model probably indicates that the inquirer knew that *all* TI programs once ran on the HP49G -- until ACO needed to borrow a whole bank of flash ROM to expand the OS for version 1.19, which, unfortunately, meant that the TI emulation capability had to be sacrificed -- just for a tiny expansion of functions which nobody even knows about, because, just like so much else, none of this is even mentioned in the HP49 manuals! It's a little known fact that HP could have taken the entire calculator market away from TI if only someone in HP Marketing hadn't forgotten to mention the TI emulation mode in the HP49 literature (around the same time as some HP engineer forgot some resistors in the serial port, which drew all the attention away from the more serious but now forgotten marketing oversight). This also explains why HP Basic was always called Basic (it originally looked exactly like Basic in TI emulation mode), why the HP49 ENTER key has always been in the RIGHT place, and pretty much pre-empts all the which is better arguments, since basically the HP49G *includes* the whole TI calc line, after all! But if you can't downgrade your HP rom to an older version which still contains the TI emulation mode, then just download the TI flash into your HP49 instead -- flash is flash, so if you download the TI flash, you've got a TI calc, even if its keys are still rubber (don't worry, even the old key labels will wear off in time :) -[]- -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== John, thanks *very much* for pointing this out. I never thought that could be true after all. But I just loaded ROM 0.99pre5, pressed the secret key combination [ON]+[T]+[I]+ [CR]+[P]+[ENTER] (oops! now it's not secret any more) and - lo and behold - the calc greeted me with a fiendly TI copyright. Even the higher screen resolution of the TI is emulated (via pixel splitting), and the good ol' Saturn is flying away at a gorgeous 20 MHz clockrate! (Makes the calc run a little hot, though. Therefore I always have some liquid oxygene ready when using the emulation.) An entirely new experience -- I'll never have to look at this dull stack display again, or bother with RPL programming! Ah, what a relief! Now I only have to find a way to paint the calc black and replace the rubber keys with some cheap-looking plastic thingies. :) -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 ==== Palm Man wrote in message ebcP7.209853$3d2.9334872@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... what do you mean for second derivate??? in dx or dy???? or partial derivate??? ==== Alberto wrote in message news:... Hi Alberto, hi Palm Man! Since you didn't say anything about partial derivative, Alberto, I assume that you want the derivative for x and that with y you mean y(x): y(x)=s1*sqrt(x^2+25) where s1 denotes the sign + or - So we have: d / d / -- | -- | s1*sqrt(x^2+25) | | = dx dx / / s1*25*SQRT(X^2+25) ------------------ (X^2+25)^2 If you want to implicit differentiate 'x^2 + y^2 = 25' for x, then you have to write y as y(x). This lets the HP49G know, that y is not a constant but depends on x, and so when taking the derivative of y with respect to y, the HP49G returns d1y(x) instaed of 0. You can enter 'x^2 + y(x)^2 = 25' , then enter 'x' and then use the command DERIV. Now you have the first derivative. Enter 'x' again and use DERIV to get the second derivative. Use EXPAND and you have: 2*y(x)*d1d1y(x)+2*(d1y(x))^2+2=0 I hope that this was what you wanted, but if not, then please explain a bit more, as Palm Man said. Greetings, Nick. X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 ==== Nick Karagiaouroglou wrote in message cd9ca36b.0112040653.44bfa6fb@posting.google.com... news:... like matrix ARGUMENT automatically flags. '10/3' use on symbolics, HP49G NICK YOU ARE A GENIUS!!!!!! THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!! YOU ARE THE REAL LINEAR SOLVER!!!!!!!!!!! THANKS AGAIN BYE ALBERTO X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 ==== Nick Karagiaouroglou wrote in message cd9ca36b.0112040653.44bfa6fb@posting.google.com... news:... like matrix ARGUMENT automatically flags. '10/3' use on symbolics, HP49G tELL ME ONLY 1 THING, DO YOU USE RPN mode or algebric mode???? and which numbers of flags are the ones above , i have flag 1, 2 , 3 ecc. X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 ==== Thanks Nick I found it!!!!!!!!!FINALLY!!!!!!!!!! AT LAST!!!!!!!! i had to change my flag into EXACT MODE ( it was approximatemode) now all works out WONDERFULLY!!!!!! Bye and thanks again Albe ==== Alberto wrote in message news:... ---snipped rest--- Glad to hear that it worked, Alberto. And thanks for the compliments. :-) ( Though I consider myself to be a person with a rather slow understanding.) Greetings, Nick. ==== Alberto wrote in message news:... ----- snipped rest--- Hi Alberto! I use RPN mode (almost) always. The list with the flags doesn't represent directly flag 1, 2 ...and so on. The 49 has 128 system flags numbered from -1 to -128. They are divided in two groups: The 64 systemn flags that were also on the 48 and the new 64 system flags that are only on the 49. Now, if we can represent the flags as bits. If a bit is 1, then the flag is set. If it is 0, then the flag is clear. If we write all 64 bits of one flag group one after the other, then we have a 64 bit binary number, that represents the flag settings. For example #1001b would mean, start counting at the left and you have: flag 4 is set, flag 3 is clear, flag 2 is clear and flag 1 is set. The binary number #1001b can be written as #9h in hex. So the flag settings #1001b are represented in hex as #9h. But you don't have to set each flag manually. There are two commands that can recall and store all flags at once. The command RCLF recalls all flags as a list of four binary integers that are shown in the current base. That is how I got the list { # B003008D010FF0h # 0h # 98100402000028h # 0h } The first binary number is the group of system flags -1 to -64. The second is the group of user flags 1 to 64. The third is the group of system flags -65 to -128. And the fourth is the group of user flags 65 to 128. The command STOF takes such a list from the stack and sets all flags accordingly. So you only need to enter such a list and then use STOF to store all flags simoultaneously. For writing the hex representation is prefered, because of brevity. Greetings and flag wavings, Nick. ==== Alberto wrote in message news:<_KbP7.240335$sq5.11655258@news.infostrada.it>... You are welcome, Alberto :-) Greetings, Nick. X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 ==== Nick Karagiaouroglou wrote in message cd9ca36b.0112040151.46346467@posting.google.com... news:... 10/3 with Thanks Nick, but the problem is that if i use 10/3 in matrix writer it works out!!!!!! When i use SOLVE LINEAR SYSTEM AX=B the program inside the hp49g and i have to make the matrix A , if i try to put 10/3 it tells me BAD ARGUMENT TYPE What can i do to use SOLVE LINEAR SYSPEM program with rational numbers??????????????????? You have to try to see the difference: it is absurd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks anyway, and please tell me what happens on your hp!!! Thanks bye Alberto ==== Alberto wrote in message news:... Hi Alberto! Now I understand. When I use SOLVE LIN SYSTEM of the numeric solver my HP49G doesn't give an error but converts the input '10/3' to 3.3333333 . I tried to edit the matrix A in the matrix writer and to input 10 3 / XQ (XQ for turning 3.33333333 to 10/3). But then the calc didn't take the input. I think that in this case you get an error or the calc automatically transforms '10/3' to 3.33333333 . What happens could perhaps depend on flags. My flags are: { # B003008D010FF0h # 0h # 98100402000028h # 0h } Well, I think that the linear system solver doesn't allow symbolics like '10/3' because it is a numerical solver. If you want to solve a system with symbolics in the matrices, then you can use the command / (yes, it is division) Enter vector B, matrix A and press / . This returns the solutions vector on the stack. That means that you can make a small program that imitates the built-in linear system solver: << SOLVE SYSTEM A*X=B { { A: Enter coefficients matrix A } { B: Enter constants } } 1 {} {} INFORM IF THEN OBJ-> DROP SWAP / END Or you can use the command LINSOLVE. I also wonder why the built-in linear system solver doesn't accept symbolics, because the calculator can solve such systems. But we all know that the HP49G has more exceptions than rules ;-) Linear greetings, Nick. ==== Alberto wrote in message news:... [edited slightly:] Read what Nick said again, more carefully this time. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== Come on, pal, do you have to shout each time? This hurts my eyes. -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== Albert Graef wrote in message news:<9ujk3d$8pf$07$1@news.t-online.com>... Errhh, you meant me, sir? Greetings, Nick. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== Nope. Alberto. Either he's shouting or his caps lock is defective. Cheers, Albert ==== Albert Graef wrote in message news:<9uljs1$egv$03$1@news.t-online.com>... I rather think that excitement took control because of enthousiasm. If one shouts because math turned to fun, well, let him shout again. IT'S FUUUUUUUUUUN! ;-) Greetings, Nick. P.S. Didn't want to correct you or anybody else here. It's only that the DNA of my mediterranean origins influences me more than I think. You see Arcimedes himself run naked out in the streets, shouting EUREKAAAA! ;-) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== Nothing wrong with that. :) -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== Alberto wrote in message ... ==== Alberto wrote in message news:... Use the symbolic object delimiters for entering things like 10/3. That is, enter each matrix element as '10/3' and not 10/3. You can enter the delimiters '' bei pressing red-shift and then the key EQW. Hope that it helped, Nick. X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 ==== Thanks Arnold , but the problem is that if i use 10/3 in matrix writer it works out!!!!!! When i use SOLVE LINEAR SYSTEM AX=B the program inside the hp49g and i have to make the matrix A , if i try to put 10/3 it tells me BAD ARGUMENT TYPE What can i do to use SOLVE LINEAR SYSPEM program with rational numbers??????????????????? You have to try to see the difference: it is absurd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks anyway, and please tell me what happens on your hp!!! Thanks bye Alberto Arnold Steekelenburg wrote in message 3rqn0u03n0mra3ajr414o22f0gvgh7dup0@4ax.com... 10/3 with References: <3rqn0u03n0mra3ajr414o22f0gvgh7dup0@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ==== Alberto wrote: Try B A^(-1): Put the vector B on the stack; put A on the stack; invert A and multiply (rational matrices can be inverted). I think this should work but I don't have my HP49 with me for testing it. - hans kristian - ==== Marco Salvagno wrote in message news:9ue2ef$a0o$1@nreada.inwind.it... umph, a DUP got stuck in my keyboard: Thanks to John for noticing :) Greets, Marco ==== WiSCy99 v4.26 for (Windows'9x/NT/2000) is the complete and-easy-to-use calculator http://www.simtel.net/pub/pd/17596.shtml. The results of calculation can be visualization, printing as graphic, as text or saving to disk. Unit Converter is pre-configured to convert over 500 units in 30 categories and editor for custom units conversion.Periodic table of the elements utility provides basic and extended properties of the elements. Complex and MATRIX operations is available. - Arithmetic and logical operators and functions - Common functions such as exp, ln, sqrt, sqr, bnml etc. - Common, trigonometric, hyperbolic complex functions - Trigonometric, Hyperbolic functions - Numerical Integration - Equations can be solved - Special functions (Gamma, Bessel's, Si, Ci, erf, erfc, Fresnel's) - Statistic functions (Average, Standard deviation, Sum, Random, Gauss random, statistical variance, etc ) - FOR-type loop - if (...) then (...) else (...) function - Tape of results - Assistant and debug: error position fixed - Plot f(X), Contour Plot f(X,Y), Color Shading f(X,Y), real 3D-Plot f(X,Y), Derivative, Fit. - Print results, graphics and print preview - Save graphics to BMP, WMF, EMF formats - Matrix Operations(A+B=C, A-B=C, A*B=C, inverse(A)=C, Power(A,n)=C, det |A|=C[1.1], Solve A(X)=C) - Decimal, Hexadecimal and Binary bases - Fixed point, Scientific, Engineering and Sexagesimal notations - Radian and Degree modes for trigonometric functions - Precision: 10-12 significant digits. - Range: _(3.4E-4392 to 1.1E+4392) - 10 pre defined variables, user define variables - User define functions - 30 user defined constants (up to 16000), search and edit file with constants. - Stack for expressions (up to 16000) - Stack for results (up to 16000) - Unit Converter - Custom unit converter - Evaluate expressions from file - Simple tape calculator - Periodic table of the elements Special requirements: None. Changes: Added Periodic table of the elements More than 400 units in 20 categories Igor Evsikov ievsikov@flowpath.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== Thanks for posting your SPAM here, this is greatly appreciated in this ng. -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== The worst part is it is not RPN spam. Charles Perry P.E. Albert Graef wrote in message news:9ujiss$52s$02$1@news.t-online.com... ==== Hallo, i tried to put on solvelinearsystem a matrix with numbers like 10/3 It rejects the symbol / what can i do??? I can't fill in a matrix with rational numbers TOO STUPID for a HP49G!!!!!! How can i do?????thanks Albe Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ==== Hi, You could put the values between ' ', '3/10' using rshift EQW. This way the values will not be evaluated immediately. Arnold On Mon, 03 Dec 2001 19:28:24 GMT, Alberto wrote: References: <76ea4fd3.0111121558.35217f5d@posting.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.145.205.253 X-Trace: corp.newsgroups.com 1007437674 208.145.205.253 (3 Dec 2001 21:47:54 -0600) Lines: 20 ==== Julian Fondren wrote: Want to save alarms too, to guard against sleeping through quizzes? Recall alarm list from hidden directory to stack: << RCLF -55. CF IFERR 1. MAXR FOR i i RCLALARM NEXT THEN 1. - ->LIST SWAP STOF END >> Store alarm list from stack to hidden directory: << IF DUP SIZE THEN REVLIST << STOALARM >> DOLIST END DROP >> [r->] [OFF] -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== Hi, I have a question regarding nested temporary environments involving NULLLAM. According to Eduardo's SysRPL guide these are a no-no. (See section 5.2, p. 20 in the pdf file.) But why? It appears to me that this works perfectly. E.g. (contrived example): :: %1 %2 { NULLLAM NULLLAM } BIND %3 { NULLLAM } BIND 1GETABND %1+ 1GETLAM 2GETLAM ABND ; This returns 4. 2. 1., just as it should. Am I missing something here? Also, what the heck does #ONE#27 CACHE do? (I found this in one of the sysrpl dolist snippets on Eduardo's knowledge database site.) Does this work the same as ONE ' NULLLAM CACHE? TIA, Albert -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== Albert Graef wrote: I think he means it is then not possible to use the NULLLAMs of the outer temp. environments. NULLLAMs can only be recalled from the current temporary environment (at least for simple SysRPLers). Regards, -- Georg Zotti e9126124@student.tuwien.ac.at Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== Yes, ok, that makes sense. Thanks for your reply. -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag NNTP-Posting-Host: uds160-38.dial.hccnet.nl ==== outer environment NULLLAMS can be recalled by adding the total number of inner environment NULLLAMS to their counter Caspar Note that you may get problems when using some built-in browsers on the HP48 when using NULLLAMS created outside the POL -- Albert Graef schreef in bericht news:9ujjr9$a0o$05$1@news.t-online.com... NULLLAM. p. work Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ==== Hi, Caspar, thanks for the info. HP48 Thanks for reminding me of one potential bug in a sysrpl project I'm working on. :) In fact, I've been brooding over this question some time earlier this year, see http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Graef+POL&hl=en&meta=group%3Dcomp.sys.hp48 To recapitulate, I have a routine which binds a lot of LAMs *before* the call to ParOuterLoop and then accesses these with GETLAM/PUTLAM in the key action routines. This seems to work perfectly (at least on the 49G), although, according to the docs, it shouldn't work at all (because the POL is supposed to save the current status in a temporary environment before starting key processing). Any ideas? Well, I guess I should really recode this part, and insert my own LAM environment right after POLSaveUI. Cheers, Albert -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== rcobo@eng.morgan.edu wrote: I guess they are friends? :-) Hahaha, TI headquarters in Washington, D.C.? TI spent a fortune in killing them? They probably didn't need to spend a penny. This series is interesting. Keep it up, rcobo! :-) Bhuvanesh. ==== Without wanting to interrupt the flow of this extraordinary interesting story, I dare emphasizing on the communication of the president with the agent. ......Very interesting story President turns pale like a ghost! [What? *They* are back? But how...?] [We believe that RCOBO reactivated them, sir.] [But then...who reactivated RCOBO?] [His old HP49G with an alarm just for this purpose, sir.] [And who reactivated the HP49G?] [VPN coming out of the future in a hyper space ship, sir] [And who told VPN to do so, how...I mean how did he know? Or how will he know?] [RCOBO sent a message to the past, which VPN re-transmitted to his future self, sir. And then they both reactivated the Great-Incompatible, and connected him to our network. He is currently visiting all network TI-calcs one by one, and asks them a question which seems to have devastating results, sir.] [....????] [The barber shaves every man in the village who doesn't shave himself...blah blah you know the rest, don't you ;-) ] Greetings and continue the great story! Nick. From ???@??? Fri Jan 01 00:00:00 1999 Path: newssvr16.news.prodigy.com!newsmst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!tarski.math.fu-berlin.DE!not-for-mail From: Wolfgang Rautenberg Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48 Subject: [49] MINEHUNT Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:03:39 +0100 Organization: FU Berlin, Germany Lines: 12 Message-ID: <3C1E418B.A681169E@math.fu-berlin.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: tarski.math.fu-berlin.de (160.45.43.153) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1008615808 16869689 160.45.43.153 (16 17 19) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:145383 Hi game-boys, MINEHUNT, ported from the 48 independently by J. Hidalgo and D. Lidstöm, seems not to accept a zint in the reserved variable Nmines, hence may cause problems in Exact mode. There is a new version on my site which avoids the problem. At this occasion, I made the (copyrighted) MINEHUNT slightly faster and 500 bytes smaller (2.7 KB only at present :-) Have fun - Wolfgang ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/games/ From ???@??? Fri Jan 01 00:00:00 1999 Path: newssvr16.news.prodigy.com!newsmst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!newscon04.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news3.rdc1.on.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Robert Atkinson" Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48 Subject: [49G] Public source code 49G ROM Lines: 11 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 03:51:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.156.170.15 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news3.rdc1.on.home.com 1008474681 24.156.170.15 (Sat, 15 Dec 2001 19:51:21 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 19:51:21 PST Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:145360 You know... I think of all the things that we will try to do if and when the ROM is made public source code. And I think I know what will come first................. . . . Algebraic mode will be removed. Come on, you all know I'm right. From ???@??? Fri Jan 01 00:00:00 1999 Path: newssvr16.news.prodigy.com!newsmst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hub1.nntpserver.com!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator-la!news-in-la.newsfeeds.com!sea-feed.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!quark.scn.rain.com!not-for-mail From: "G Savage" Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48 Subject: Re: [49G] Public source code 49G ROM Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:55:33 -0800 Organization: SCN Research of Tigard, Oregon, USA. Lines: 11 Message-ID: <9viu62$1pb$1@quark.scn.rain.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: matdial2.mtangel.net X-Trace: quark.scn.rain.com 1008532483 1835 207.149.53.2 (16 Dec 2001 19:54:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@news.scn.rain.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 19:54:43 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:145365 Yes! And all the 48's soft menus restored as shifted menus. Also, only selected use of choose boxes and input screens please. Greg Robert Atkinson wrote in message news:ZSUS7.48463$pa1.17444057@news3.rdc1.on.home.com... > From ???@??? Fri Jan 01 00:00:00 1999 Path: newssvr16.news.prodigy.com!newsmst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsmm00.sul.t-online.com!t-online.de!news.t-online.com!not-for-mail From: "Jason" Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48 Subject: [49G] Two-variable Diff Eq. Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 09:54:52 +0100 Organization: T-Online Lines: 9 Message-ID: <9vhogd$pp7$07$1@news.t-online.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.t-online.com 1008493901 07 26407 SRxUTncGSEAlLz 011216 09:11:41 X-Complaints-To: abuse@t-online.com X-Sender: 520033180713-0001@t-dialin.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:145361 Hi! Is it possible to solve symbolically two-variable differential equations (u(t,x)) on a 49G? Thanks! p.s. If the 49G Can't do this, can Mathematica or Maple do it? Thanks for your help. From ???@??? Fri Jan 01 00:00:00 1999 Path: newssvr16.news.prodigy.com!newsmst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!tarski.math.fu-berlin.DE!not-for-mail From: Wolfgang Rautenberg Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48 Subject: Re: [49G] Two-variable Diff Eq. Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 14:52:36 +0100 Organization: FU Berlin, Germany Lines: 9 Message-ID: <3C1CA724.FF4430D4@math.fu-berlin.de> References: <9vhogd$pp7$07$1@news.t-online.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tarski.math.fu-berlin.de (160.45.43.153) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1008510744 16025041 160.45.43.153 (16 17 19) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:145362 Jason wrote: > Hi! Is it possible to solve symbolically two-variable differential equations > (u(t,x)) on a 49G? Your question is rather unprecise. What is the independent, what the dependent? A linear or ordinary differential equation or what? Each proper diff-equation has at least 2 variables :) - Wolfgang From ???@??? Fri Jan 01