A141 >I've got a pretty esoteric question: why does HP-16C index register have >68 bits when all normal registers can be at most 64 bit long? What those >4 extra bits could be used for, bar writing (nearly) endless ISZ loops, >I mean. Can you explain how you came to the conclusion that the index register is longer than the others, please? It's not something that I've heard of before. it's stated in the 16C manual, in the part where the index register is explained, and in some other places, like memory allocation. But the manual doesn't explain why it is wider than the others. > But the manual doesn't explain why it is wider than the others. indeed the source of my question, and since, as you rightly pointed out, the 68-bit size of the index register is referred to in several disjoint places, I presumed that it was not a simple typo. In fact, the manual does not explain in what format the data is stored in the index register either. It only states that it will be equivalent, whatever that means in 1's and 2's complement modes. Very intriguing. ==== But the manual doesn't explain why it is wider than the others. > > indeed the source of my question, and since, as you rightly pointed out, > the 68-bit size of the index register is referred to in several disjoint > places, I presumed that it was not a simple typo. The memory registers of the 16C can be configured to be from 1 to 16 nybbles (half-bytes) of physical memory wide (i.e. from 1 to 64 bits), so having an extra four bits in the index register beyond the normal 64-bit maximum word size would make it easier to address into physical nybble memory (rather than 'virtual' words of anything from 1 to 64 bits). ==== Do you suggest that those 4 bits would hold a multiplier to be applied to the normal value of the address register? The manual is surprisingly ambiguous as far as the formatting of the index register is concerned, so that this might be possible. . I'm looking for a way to jump to a particular X value on a plotted graph. Using the cursor keys with trace enabled seems horribly tedious at times. accurate answer - this isn't what I mean; I simply miss the ability to view (with some speed) the approximate function result without having to scroll all the way there. The way I'm doing it now just seems silly. The only things I know about are (1) that right-shift hold with an arrow key moves to the edge of the graph space, (2) You don't have to have the cursor on the curve to look for a root or an extremum, only near the correct point horizontally (vertical position is irrelevant). ==== The HP49G sometimes gives incorrect answers when ->NUM performed on ratioof large integers. In the following examples, exact mode is assumed. ========== Example #1 ========== 1000000000001/1000000000002 (eleven zeros in each) ->NUM yields 1. But the correct answer (rounded to 12 decimal places) is 0.999999999999 Admittedly, that's only off by 1 in the last place, but I thought the HP49G had the ability to always get simple divisions correct to the last digit. ========== Example #2 ========== 199999999999499/199999999999500 (eleven 9's in each) ->NUM yields .999999999995 But the correct answer (rounded to 12 decimal places) is 1. That's *five* off in the last place. Not good. ========== Questions ========== Is the problem that the integers are converted to reals before performing the division? If so, is there an easy way to obtain accurate ratios of large integers on the HP49G? ==== Can somebody say what the adress is from the basic command GROB? How do we do textbook mode in sys-rpl? the message handlers for the DoInputForm, where can I find them? How do we display text as the inference aplet when you press on help? That was it for now. ==== > Can somebody say what the adress is from the basic command GROB? GROB is not a command but a keyword understood by the command line compiler. So it doesn't have an address. > How do we do textbook mode in sys-rpl? Are you referring to the VIEW bit? > > the message handlers for the DoInputForm, where can I find them? Search in the HP48 forum > How do we display text as the inference aplet when you press on help? Go to my web site: Www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/39.html and download the stats source code. You will see how you can write advanced aplets ==== I have converted 12 new games for various HP calcs. See my website: http://www.noda.online.fr WARNING: A bug have been reported with teh hp49 version of BomberHP, it can cause TTRM sometimes! I'll fix it as soon as I find teh bug. Be sure to notify (at least me) in this NG, because I like Bomberman (assuming itÇs Bomberman, converted from the PC-game of the same name).... ==== online journals listed by Stanford at http://www4.tdnet.com/stanford/ or by MEDeZONE at http://www.medezone.com/173.html or by the NIH at http://www.nih.gov/science/journals/ or the Phoenix Foundation at http://www.bioport.org/readroom/journal.htm or any similarly acclaimed and accepted journal. ==== ***Who would be able to build up a plugin for this application ?*** Check http://www.ghisler.com/ and what other calculator has a website of the likes of.... hpcalc.org ? what other calculator has so many web stores devoted to selling cards and accesories for only a single calculator ??? what other calculator supports such flexibility, assembly-language programming capability and open-system architecture ?? As a lecturer at University, I get to see all sorts of calculators that the students bring in.... but I am yet to see one that seriously competes with hp in the OVERALL analysis.... some have one thing and some another but NONE of them have everything just right. Even if they do go off the market entirely.... all that will happen is that their value will APPRECIATE with the years. Do you know of any other calculator that can claim this ???? All others are forgotten as the models change.... but there will always be a buyer for an HP48 ==== > what other calculator has a website of the likes of.... hpcalc.org ? The ti has ticalc.org, and calc.org. Much of the basic programs on ticalc.org is crap. The new archivers for ticalc.org are quite excellent. They've been going through the pending queue at a couple hundred files a day now. How fast does hpcalc.org take to update files? I do like hpcalc's more subject specific organization. Calc.org is lagging right now. > what other calculator has so many web stores devoted to selling cards and > accesories for only a single calculator ??? I would care if my 89 had an expansion bay. But there are other peripherals that can be found. Radio link kits, devices for taking external data, overhead projectors, infared links, ect > what other calculator supports such flexibility, assembly-language programming > capability and open-system architecture ?? The oncalc developement utilities for the ti are lacking. But the PC based utilities are excellent. Please look at tigcc.ticalc.org. I would not want to develop assembly on calc. There was recently released an IDE, Assembler, C compiler package for on calc use. As of right now the ti89 rom has more than a thousand rom calls available, Yes it is a very open system architecture. There are deliberate restrictions created by ti on the 68k series, but those are easy to get past. Assembly is very flexible on the 89. It is possible to hook into the hps entry line, watch what the user types and offer auto-completion suggestions? This is very possible on the 89. Accessing commands with pure typing and auto completion is faster than soft menus. If You are looking to start a flame war Please come into ti territory: http://pub26.ezboard.com/btichessteamhq or http://www-s.ti.com/cgi-bin/discuss/sdbmessage.cgi?databasetoopen=calculator s&topicarea=TI-89/Voyage+200/TI-92+Plus&do_2=1 And My page where you can find a) auto completion for the home entry line, and b) a kick-ass equation writer. And much more for the ti89: www.calvin.edu/~sstear70/ -Samuel Stearley ==== PLEASE do not start it! Not again one of those fight to the death against all barbarians! (they are, aren't they?) You are asking for trouble... Let us see the silly responses.. :-) ==== Just a quick apology. Wheather your looking for a flame war or not you are more then welcome to post questions at either of those forums. The ezboard one is devoted to c for the calc. -Samuel ==== > As a lecturer at University, I get to see all sorts of calculators that the > students bring in.... but I am yet to see one that seriously competes with hp > in the OVERALL analysis.... some have one thing and some another but NONE of > them have everything just right. The HP48 obviously doesn't have everything just right, either. If it did, there would be no reason to release the HP49G. That is not to say that the HP48 is not a good calculator. > All others are forgotten as the models change.... That's called progress. -- ==== >If You are looking to start a flame war Please come into ti territory: Indeed NOT... I am NOT looking to start any kind of war. Even though I like hp calculators... I am not a fanatic... I bought hp because I genuinely believed it was the best of the best..... I have had years of joy using it... I have NEVER had a hardware problem of any kind.....and there are STILL things I am discovering about it... even after owning it for 13 years !!!!!! you have given me a lot of good reasons to explore a TI89.... so my challenge was well met. I own both TI and Casio calculators which I have picked up over the years, in addition to my hp's.... the TI, I have is not a graphing model, just a plain basic solar powered scientific.... but I still like it for what it is.... I used it in exams when I was a student back in 1989 and the hp wasn't allowed in the exam I would be willing to buy another TI ... you advocating the TI89..... is that the best of TI ? ? I am sorry if you found my post insulting or inciting. ==== I need to adjust the display on my 48G. Can't find the manual, so can somebody pls tell me how to adjust brilliance and contrast? Any help much appreciated! Mads ==== Press and hold [ON] whiile pressing [+] for darker or [-] for a lighter display. >I need to adjust the display on my 48G. Can't find the manual, so can >somebody pls tell me how to adjust brilliance and contrast? Any help much appreciated! >Mads > > ==== Press and hold [ON] whiile pressing [+] for darker or [-] for a > lighter display. > Mange tak for det, Torstein :-) ==== Try [ON]-[+] [ON]-[-] As I know, only contrast is adjustable. > I need to adjust the display on my 48G. Can't find the manual, so can > somebody pls tell me how to adjust brilliance and contrast? ==== There's a document at http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/misc/hp48image describing the way how to extract data from a real HP48 and put it into Emu48. Christoph Al Adrian schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Can you elaborate on how to use of the emulator for this purpose?... For example, if i wanted to create an exact duplicate of my calculator in > the emulator (emu48)...I'd... ?? And going the other way.. say if I had evaluated some particular software > and now wanted to download the emulator's setup to the calc...I'd... ?? > Al... > Use the Emulator! > (-: > PS: a port name :IO: will ARCHIEV & RESTORE through the serial > to your PC, but only RAM )-: > ==== I found out that you can send more than one file at a time just check them off, you have to keep clicking recieve on the pc for each file though. That's on emu48. Stan >What's the best way to back up the whole calculator to a computer. All >>ports and files and directories, in the most simplest way of course. I haven't found an efficient way to do it yet, but for port1 and port2 >I use the Connectivity Kit, that comes with Debug4x, in the PC and in >the calculator I use the Filer. In the file menu of the Connectivity Kit, I look for uploading to the >PC and then type the name of the file to receive. >I browse the port in the filer and when I'm in the file I want to >backup, I press XSEND (it's in the fourth page, pressing NEXT three >times.) Then just press OK in the PC. It's the best way I've found. Sadly it's still too slow. In fact I had >never backed-up anything from the ports, because those ports were >*safe*. As long as you don't play around with SysRPL or ASM! I had my >Sys/ASM programming projects in port1 (uses less energy for storing >continually) but the other day, a major crash during programming >erased half of port1 (the first bank), so I lost about 80Kb. I don't >remember everything I may have lost, but I'm sure I lost two almost >finished projects :(. Then I backed-up all my data, even the stuff in >port2. > ==== I have found a set of 4 NiCad batteries welded together properly for my HP-41 HP-IL based Thermal Printer (82162A)from Digi-Key. However I have not been able to find the plastic battery pack to hold the batteries and fit the same into the bottom of the printer. Does anyone know where I might be able to get an empty plastic shell? I was wondering if it is possible to connect the batteries to the printer without the plastic shell? I know duct tape etc won't look that great but it would do if I have no other option. I have some plastic sheet stock that I could tape the batteries to, Also does the battery pack for the printer listed above fit any other HP device? AFAIK the same battery pack is used in the HP-97. ==== I just got an HP-41 HP-IL based Thermal Printer (82162A) but it came with no battery pack. I was wondering if anyone knows the specs for the NiCads used in this printer? A colleague of mine has rebuilt several battery packs for several HP calculators and printers and says if I can get the specs. we should be able to fix something so as to get the printer working again. It looks almost brand new except for not having a battery pack. ==== use four Panasonic P-170 SCR (KR23/43) . Each off these has a capacity of 1700mAh at 1.2V . This type of battery suits perfectly into the cblack holder. ==== Better use the 2000 mAh Ni-Cad just available now. ==== Have you got the ROM upgraded yet ? What about other communications between the calculator and PC... can you upload and download data ? What's the state of your calculator now ? ==== When i have entered the following function,ABS(1-ln(x)),i think that my HP49G drew a wrong plot.Because x is always over 0.Do it yourself. . Enable Rigorous mode on your '49. ==== I need to get a new HP. My current HP48GX started to fail (I get a reset almost every day, sometimes loose memory). Is there anything I can try to repair this calculator? Can the firmware be upgraded/reloaded ? If I can do nothing about it, is it possible to use it to learn its architecture? I work with microcontrollers and DSPs but never had the chance to 'play' with the HP architechture. It would be great if someone can share experience in the subject. I'm a newbie in this. Mariano == First of all have you dowloaded programs into it.... there has been some talk about malicious code (hp48 virus ? ) that causes similar symptoms. If you are sure it's a hardware problem... you could open it up and have a detailed inspection... looking for any signs of corrosion or damage.... did you ever drop it ? or have a leaky battery ???? If there are no signs of physical causes... the next step would be a schematic and some electrical tests.... generally a signature analyser is used to troubleshoot microprocessor based systems... but to a large extent the usefulness of the measurements depends on knowing what the correct signatures are supposed to be.. so you would need this information..or else a good unit to compare it to. You could check out www.hpcalc.org.... but I don't know if they have logic diagrams or signatures Can the firmware be upgraded/reloaded ? It's in ROM... so the chip would have to be replaced... you might have to get another second hand or defective unit to use for parts... since availability of replacement items could be an issue If I can do nothing about it, is it possible to use it to learn its >architecture? I work with microcontrollers and DSPs but never had the chance >to 'play' with the HP architechture. There is lots of information available for programming the processor in assembly language... so you could certainly learn about it's architecture.... but before you could enjoy that you would still need to get any physical problems ironed out of the system. I have a little experience at reverse engineering digital systems.... but I have never had the time or need to do it on my wonderful hp hopefully somebody else has.. and can teach us both... or point us in the right direction ==== a used 48gx can be had for less than a hundred dollars. . ==== It has been a long while (years) since I do not download programs into my HP. I don't think I have a virus. I really cannot imagine how a virus can harm a ROMed HP. In flash, a virus may damage firmware, and it can even be protected, but in ROM, if you disconnect the battery for a long period of time, the HP should come back to its original state. now trace some points and test some stuff. Mainly to learn from it. I cannot test much of it from electrical point of view. The problem seems to be a software problem. It always happens when I am pressing a key or performing an operation. Do you think this can be tested electrically? I can trace addresses, data, check for activity, maybe get a reset output from the microprocessor. However, I am thinking of this: the calculator is RAM based, therefore all read/write information is stored in the memory. The OS must have a table with address pointers to variables, programs, folders, whatever. A hardware reset will reset the micro and will not alter RAM contents. If the micro/OS is capable to recover from a reset and yet recover the memory (Do you want to recover memory? YES / NO), then it should be able to locate tables, pointers and variables in RAM. I guess that, somehow, RAM contents are altered/corrupted. Can be due to: 1) its age (electrical components have a Mean Time Between Failure MTBF and will fail) or 2) a problem with firmware, and hence a problem with ROM contents, therefore ROM failure 3) a problem with the micro itself Now, since the micro has a reduced set of instructions, and use most of them during operation, I believe that if the failure is in the micro, it should be more often and specific. I bet the problem is in RAM/ROM. By the way, the self test performs OK. Other than that, my calc has been not been dropped, the batteries are fine, exposed to hot temperature in my bag, cold Michigan temperature in winter, lots of miles traveled, vibration, but nothing unusual. Does anybody have experience in opening an HP and testing this board? I can think of many do's but I would really appreaciate the don't's :-) Correct anything I have said if you think I'm wrong. After reading what you have written... I would bet its the RAM. But consider this, unless you are tooled to remove the IC's... and can get replacement ones... or anonther calculator to butcher... what's the point of proceeding ? I agree with the guy who says get another one and be done with it. Thats what I would do, if I was in your position...... that's what I have done for other defective items I have owned that were far more expensive than hp calculator. Personally I cant be bothered with the hassle... I get pleasure out of USING the technology.. not repairing it. ==== I'm not intending to repair if it is too complicated. If it's related to hardware, it is almost imposible to repair. But anyway, I have a non working calc and still want to know what has failed. I get pleasure out of using technology, but also get pleasure out of learning from it. You are absolutely right to get a new calc. I'm looking for a HP49. I guess I am going to get more from a 49 rather than a 48. t. Mariano, I was not REALLY able to help you... but you are quite welcome anyway About your NEW CALCULATOR.... I have BOTH an hp48 and an hp49 coming because I couldn't make up my mind... and I wanted to use a plug-in ROM which I like. However it seems from reading the posts that the hp49 is the better (more powerful) of the two.... better except for the quality of the keys and the placement of the enter key... thanks for posting in the forum and let us know ==== I was trying a few symbolic integration with my HP49G and this one didn't work sin(ln(x)) the answer should be 1/2 *x (sin(ln(x))-cos(ln(x))) (The IT89 was doing it easily!) ) Yes, it can. It is done by IBP twice with the auxiliary function being simply X 'SIN(LN(X))' 'X' IBP yields 'X*SIN(LN(X))' '-COS(LN(X))' append another 'X and do another IBP which yields: 'X*SIN(LN(X))' '-X*COS(LN(X))' '-SIN(LN(X))' which means: 'SIN(LN(X))' = 'X*SIN(LN(X))' + '-X*COS(LN(X))' + '-SIN(LN(X))' Or, the solution is '(X*SIN(LN(X))-X*COS(LN(X)))/2' which simplifies to the answer you gave. ==== >I was trying a few symbolic integration with my HP49G >and this one didn't work sin(ln(x)) the answer should be 1/2 *x (sin(ln(x))-cos(ln(x))) With a little calculus knowledge, the 49G can do it. Put this on the stack / X | | SIN(LN(X)) dX | / 0 Then do: LN(X)=U SUBST EVAL Then: U=LN(X) SUBST EVAL FACTOR And there you have it. -- ==== I was trying a few symbolic integration with my HP49G and this one didn't work integrate (X/(1-X^4)^(1/2))dX . the answer is 1/2*sin^-1(X^2) . ==== >I was trying a few symbolic integration with my HP49G >and this one didn't work integrate (X/(1-X^4)^(1/2))dX . the answer is 1/2*sin^-1(X^2) . Yes it can... just do it as you'd do it on paper. Put this on the stack: / X | X | ------------- dX | (1-X^4)^(1/2) / 0 Then X^2=SIN(U) SUBST EVAL Then SIN(U)=X^2 SUBST ==== You kindly replied to this : >I was trying a few symbolic integration with my HP49G >and this one didn't work saying this : > Yes it can... just do it as you'd do it on paper. but I'm afraid that following your argument, the mentionned piece of paper can also integrate whatever you write on it... (slight exageration on my part, yes) The idea would be to have the answer out of the box, no ? As in single final answwer to a single request... ==== Nick (Hulk) starts longer (but not too long) explanation: Vedran, I suppose you used the built-in numeric solver because you said that you got the error Bad Guess(es). Well, bad news is that the numeric solver will *not* work with complex values. Good news is that you can enter your equation, SUBSTitute all knowns, enter the variable to solve for and use SOLVE to get a solution. What I didn't quite get: What do you mean with: > How can I solve the following? PI(symbol)/3.1415 ? What do you want to solve for here? Do you perhaps mean how to find a numeric answer of the ratio? If so, then ->NUM. End of transmission, Hulk goes working, Nick. > HP 49G uses (0,1) = i > Also, you have to state the multiplication, like > X*c= 1(2*pi*f*C*i), where pi is the symbolic pi. > Also you may find it easy enough to set some flags: > -2 SF => Constant -> Numeric > -105 SF => Approx. Mode > Ask more or wait John or Nick to give you a longer explanation... > Why doesn't this equation work? How can I make it work? Xc = 1/(2*3.1415*f*C*j) j = (0,1) [complex number j] f = 50 [real variable] c = 10E-9 [real variable] When I try to solve for Xc, I get Bad Guess(es) error message. How can I solve the following? PI(symbol)/3.1415 ? Calculator should show something close to 1 but it doesn't. It only shows > PI/3.1415. How can I fix that? > I now have received my new hp49G but when I connect to the PC with the connectivity software that I downloaded from the internet (v3Or4) GNU..... the SAME software that I have been using with the 48SX all these years. It goes through all the phases and the variables and directories appear in the calculator window.... BUT whenever I try to DOWNLOAD or UPLOAD a directory (or variable) I get: CFiler4x: Entry xxx (where xxx is the directory name) has unknown type 19. Directory. Please report this ! then this is followed by a window that states: xxx does not contain valid data or a valid program and the little hour-glass in the calculator disappears for good.... even though it still says Awaiting server commands... that's it.... finito.... no more communication until I exit and re-enter the software. Any body heard or seen this before ?????????????????? ==== > but when I connect to the PC with the connectivity software that I downloaded > from the internet (v3Or4) GNU..... the SAME software that I have been using > with the 48SX all these years. You will be better off with the Conn4x package (on HPCalc.org). It works with both calculators (48 and 49) using XModem links. If you develop SysRPL software on the PC, get the entire Debug4x package from HPCalc.org, it includes the connectivity package as well as a full development environment. Although this has been a shameless advert for the software I built (from Cyrilles great base), I think others might confirm what I have said. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com ==== I tried running the setup program and I got some error message regarding SIMP.HPP. I can look at and edit the file in Code Warrior, so if there's a way to change the file so it will work, I can do that. The error message caused it to cancel installation. I'm currently running Windows 98. Has anyone had this problem before? Does anyone know how to fix it? --CS ==== Speed schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I tried running the setup program and I got some error message > regarding SIMP.HPP. I can look at and edit the file in Code Warrior, > so if there's a way to change the file so it will work, I can do that. > The error message caused it to cancel installation. I'm currently running Windows 98. Has anyone had this problem before? Does anyone know how to fix it? > You could try it on a more stable operating system, like Windows NT, or Windows 2000 . I don't know if Win9x is even supported by Debug4x. Raymond ==== > I tried running the setup program and I got some error message > regarding SIMP.HPP. I can look at and edit the file in Code Warrior, > so if there's a way to change the file so it will work, I can do that. > The error message caused it to cancel installation. I'm currently running Windows 98. I just downloaded a copy from HPCalc.org and then installed with no problems at all on a Win98 SE machine that has never had Debug4x before. The install worked smooth as silk and I could load the Demo project. SIMP.HPP is a project file from C:Program FilesHewlett-PackardDebug4xExamplesSimple which gets copied during the install. Is it possible you have an old copy of the program? (then do Ctrl Panel add/remove and remove it). Do you have room left on your hard disk? (takes about 32 MB total)? I have received no other reports of failing to install and I do not know of anything that would fail under Win98. If none of the above help, I would uninstall (if you can), delete all the Debug4x.zip etc and go download a fresh copy. Perhaps there has been an error in the download? The author of Debug4x (based on excellent work by Cyrille, of course). -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com ==== > Folks: > > I'm trying to enter a complex number in polar form - you know, magnitude, > then the angle buttons, then the angle. I can enter a numeric quantity of > degrees fine, but when I try to enter something like pi/2 it stops me right > at pi with an error about invalid syntax or something. I've looked through > both the owner's manual and quick start guide and find nothing. Any clues? Just enter it as: '(r, [If this has been discussed here before, please point me to it. Thanx.] The HP49G sometimes gives incorrect answers when ->NUM performed on ratios of > large integers. In the following examples, exact mode is assumed. It seems that the HP49G has only 12 digit internal accuracy because when inputting such large integers, it rounds the input to 12 significant digits. > ========== Example #1 ========== 1000000000001/1000000000002 (eleven zeros in each) ->NUM yields 1. But the correct answer (rounded to 12 decimal places) is 0.999999999999 Admittedly, that's only off by 1 in the last place, but I thought the HP49G > had the ability to always get simple divisions correct to the last digit. It appears that HP it reads the division as 1000000000000/1000000000000 instead of 1000000000001/1000000000002 because any numbers after 12 digits are considered to be zero. With a Ti89, it gets 0.999999999999 because it uses internal 14 digits precision; this eliminates rounding errors in numerics. Sometimes I see that my results are a little off in the last decimal place when checking my work compared to my original answer. So use the last digit with care, a guide to what the value actually might be. > ========== Example #2 ========== 199999999999499/199999999999500 (eleven 9's in each) ->NUM yields .999999999995 But the correct answer (rounded to 12 decimal places) is 1. That's *five* off in the last place. Not good. In this case the HP reads it as 199999999999000/200000000000000. That's why it is good not to round with significant digit calculations until the very end (when doing by hand) because errors like these might arise. The HP calculator, however, can only do twelve digit calculations internally, so it has to read all input with only the first 12 digits, after that it's zero. It would be good if HP added an extra internal digit or two in calculations, it would make the last decimal place reliable. I am unsure what the limitation was that this could not be done, but it's ok. You can always get the longfloat library at hpcalc. Albert ==== > [If this has been discussed here before, please point me to it. Thanx.] The HP49G sometimes gives incorrect answers when ->NUM performed on ratios of > large integers. In the following examples, exact mode is assumed. > Is the problem that the integers are converted to reals before performing the > division? If so, is there an easy way to obtain accurate ratios of large > integers on the HP49G? > I don't think there are any easy way, as most integers functions are converted to reals by automatic dispatch mechanism. However, you could carry out the division in fixed point, i.e. something like this: /<< 15 ALOG ROT OVER * PICK3 IDIV2 4 ROLL /->NUM / + SWAP / />> It passes your 3 tests, but needs to be tested ( thought over) properly. It seems a bit of a kludge. I think there is also some more elegant possibilities with residual aritmetic using floating division and a suitable prime(s). There is something in Knuths semi-numerical book. Maybe someone could check it. Gjermund ==== X > It appears that HP it reads the division as 1000000000000/1000000000000 > instead of 1000000000001/1000000000002 because any numbers after 12 digits > are considered to be zero. With a Ti89, it gets 0.999999999999 because it > uses internal 14 digits precision; this eliminates rounding errors in > numerics. X > It would be good if HP added an extra internal digit or two in calculations, > it would make the last decimal place reliable. I am unsure what the > limitation was that this could not be done, but it's ok. You can always get > the longfloat library at hpcalc. Albert BUT...how is this possible? I thought that the HP OS has internal 15digit accuracy in it's calculations (even more when you do some internal matrix calculations) Why this is not used here is beyound my imagination. NO it is not! If I use SysRPL I get good answers. That means that in User RPL the coversion gives you *every* intermediate answer in 12 digits and then these are used in subsequential calculations, like it always used to do. What people want here seems to be like asking the ->NUM to start a small SysRPL de/compile project to get enhanced precision for the output. Not a bad idea at all! Go long-reals go! ==== in hpcalc.org in my 49g, using the same method that I use to normally update the ROM of the 49. But when (I suppose) the process was about to to finish, he appeared in the screen of my 49 a message that said a bank had to be erased, that I went to the Erase Banks menu, as soon as I returned to the previous menu and that I chose Download Pack to finish the transference. I went to this menu and I erased bank 0 (I did not dare to erase nothing else), but continues appearing the happy message and I cannot install the ROM of the 39/40 in my 49g. I could not make another thing, then I installed the normal ROM of the 49, process in which I did not have any problem in concluding it. Some of you has tried to do this successfully?. You have managed to install the ROM of 39/40g in the 49g?. Hopefully you can help me in this. Sorry for my ---horrible--- english. Greetings from Valparaiso - Chile ==== > in hpcalc.org in my 49g, using the same method that I use to normally > update the ROM of the 49. But when (I suppose) the process was about > to to finish, he appeared in the screen of my 49 a message that said > a bank had to be erased, that I went to the Erase Banks menu, as As the message said, you need to erase an EXTRA bank in the HP49. The HP39G is using one more bank of 128KB than the HP49. So go into the Erase bank menu and select the first user bank and format it. Then download as usual. ==== > > in hpcalc.org in my 49g, using the same method that I use to normally > update the ROM of the 49. But when (I suppose) the process was about > to to finish, he appeared in the screen of my 49 a message that said > a bank had to be erased, that I went to the Erase Banks menu, as > > As the message said, you need to erase an EXTRA bank in the HP49. The HP39G > is using one more bank of 128KB than the HP49. > So go into the Erase bank menu and select the first user bank and format > it. Then download as usual. > thanks, problem [SOLVE]d ==== 39g: $40 49g: $190 About 5 of each. Martin Cohen ==== I have an old HP41cv, it works just fine, but I have problems with the battery pack. Is there a solution to exchange the battery pack with some more normal batteries or something like it? Please help, I don't want to lose the calc. Have a nice day and thanks for answers:) Borut Korpar borut.korpar@uni-mb.si ==== Note that you have now the 450mAh NI-MH to put in the normal batterie pack (without the recharging inside). b4tbf2$7ct$1@planja.arnes.si... I have an old HP41cv, it works just fine, but I have problems with the > battery pack. Is there a solution to exchange the battery pack with some > more normal batteries or something like it? Please help, I don't want to lose the calc. Have a nice day and thanks for answers:) Borut Korpar > borut.korpar@uni-mb.si ==== If you still have the original batery cover you can use four (4) N size disposable batteries in the 41C/CV/CX. If you do not use an energy hungry peripheral, like a card reader, they should last a few months. These N size are also called half AA size in some places. The standard battery holder shows the correct orientation for each cell. More information at: Good luck. Jean (Johnny) Lemire from Richelieu, Quebec, Canada. ==== In a recent thread Joe pointed out the lack of a LASTX command on the 48 and 49. I forget where I got this, so the author goes unsung, but it provides LASTX for either calculator: << DEPTH -> N << LASTARG DEPTH N - DUP -> S << ROLLD S 1 - DROPN >>> Sorry it's not a proper transfer, but I don't have my cable handy. Bill ==== > I forget where I got this, so the author goes unsung... It's by Darryl Okahata, and is available as 'LASTX' on Goodies Disk #3. -Joe- ==== > In a recent thread Joe pointed out the lack of a LASTX command on the > 48 and 49. I forget where I got this, so the author goes unsung, but > it provides LASTX for either calculator: << DEPTH -> N << LASTARG DEPTH N - DUP -> S << ROLLD S 1 - DROPN >> > Sorry it's not a proper transfer, but I don't have my cable handy. Well, but if you run this program then you replace the last arguments with whatever the argument to DROPN was, so if you run it twice, you'll very likely get a different result the second time, unlike the LASTX command on a classic RPN calculator. Try the following; note that it restores whatever was the most recent object in the last arguments buffer back to the last arguments buffer. It places whatever was the level 1 argument for the last command that took any arguments on level 1. Note that it doesn't restore what was on level 1 before commands that don't take any arguments, like CLEAR, DEPTH, STD, MEM, and so on. If flag -55 is set (last arguments disabled), then it errors out. If flag -55 is clear but the last argument buffer is empty, then it puts nothing on the stack and leaves the last arguments buffer empty. Would it be better if in the case that the last arguments buffer is empty, then it would put the number 0 both on the stack and in the last arguments buffer? Checksum: # D527h Bytes: 97 << DEPTH -> d << LASTARG DEPTH d - IF DUP THEN DUP2 2 + ROLLD DROPN DUP DROP ELSE DROP -55 DUP SF CF END >> >> Awfully big for something that seems so simple, but I think that it better duplicates the classic RPN LASTX, except with the difference that RPL calculators can have *nothing* in the last arguments buffer. But this reminds me of another difference that I'm not sure that anyone mentioned. On a classic RPN calculator, the 4 levels of the stack and the LAST X register are always present and always have *something* in them; even after a reset they each have the value 0. Not so with the RPL calculators. -- James ==== PS: Here's a version that puts the number 0 on the stack and leaves the last arguments buffer empty in the event that last arguments was empty: Checksum: # F5Dh Bytes: 94.5 << DEPTH -> d << LASTARG DEPTH d - IF DUP THEN DUP2 2 + ROLLD DROPN DUP DROP ELSE -55 DUP SF CF END >> >> -- James ==== James! Are you sure that the users flag status is preserved? What if it was -55 SF at the beginning? Why not use PUSH & POP? << DEPTH -> d << LASTARG DEPTH d - IF DUP THEN DUP2 2 + ROLLD DROPN DUP DROP ELSE -55 DUP SF CF END >> >> ==== > James! > Are you sure that the users flag status is preserved? I regard leaving any flag, mode, or the current directory changed after the program ends to be very poor practice (or amazing arrogance), unless the program is specifically intended to do so. An exception would be if a warmstart were done while the program is executing. A possible exception (which is just barely possible in this program) would be if CANCEL were pressed while the program is executing. Do you really expect that I'd overlook such a thing in this program? > What if it was -55 SF at the beginning? Then the program errors out at the LASTARG command, before the SF and CF commands, and the flags and stack are left as they were. > Why not use PUSH & POP? They're not needed in this case. Yet another variation follows below. << DEPTH -> d > << LASTARG DEPTH d - > IF > DUP > THEN > DUP2 2 + ROLLD DROPN DUP DROP > ELSE > -55 DUP SF CF > END > >> >> In the following, if the last arguments buffer is empty, then the real number 0 is put both on the stack and in the last arguments buffer. Note that on a classic RPN calculator, the Last X register can never be truly empty; even after resetting continuous memory, it contains the value of 0 (or 0h in the case of my 16C). Checksum: # ECA9h Bytes: 69 << DEPTH -> d << LASTARG DEPTH d - IF DUP THEN DUP2 2 + ROLLD DROPN END DUP DROP >> >> -- James ==== PS: The checksums that I listed in this thread are for the 48 series; they're different for a 49G. Also note that on a 49G, the numbers in the programs should be entered as reals (with a . appended). With the following modifications, the programs should work on a 28 series, but note that I haven't tested them on a 28. Change LASTARG to LAST and change -55 DUP SF CF to 31 DUP CF SF. -- James ==== What is the difference between a hp49g+ and the hp49g and who sells the ==== as far as i know, there is only one HP49G model produced. ==== > What is the difference between a hp49g+ and the hp49g and who sells the Hmmm! As far as I know the model with a + is the HP48G+ as opposed to the HP48G. The + model has 128KB memory instead of only 32B. ==== www.cynox.de HPSpeed1, Double Speed Module for HP48G/GX and HP49G, 30.00 EUR, which is currently installed on my (other) HP 49G, which I may sometimes refer as HP 49G+ - or whatever > What is the difference between a hp49g+ and the hp49g and who sells the ==== > What is the difference between a hp49g+ and the hp49g and who sells the hp49g+? check the number well... I donÇt know if it exist! basically hp48 (forty eight) G : 32kb RAM G+ : 128 kb RAM GX : 128 kb RAM + 2 expansion ports for more RAM (up to 4 MB) or sofware cards. ==== Somewhere I read a method of pausing what one was doing and then opening a new session For example, working on some program development, and want to go to some simple calculations. You can pause this part and move off do your calculationbs and then come back. Aubrey. ==== 1) HALT 1B) *not really needed* CLEAR 2) do you calculations 2B) *if needed* store the answer(s) into a variable(s) 3) CONT (or press shift-ON for CONT) 4) *if you did CLEAR * UNDO Note: While I just tested the above sequence, you can do a lot of variations of it. Every new HALT opens up a new environment stacked. So, if your little sister comes in (without knocking on the door) and has a simple school math problem, you may start a new environment AND if you friend phones you while you are at point 2) with your baby sister and asks you to solve some problem, you may start yet another environment > Somewhere I read a method of pausing what one was doing and then > opening a new session > For example, working on some program development, and want to go to > some simple calculations. You can pause this part and move off do your > calculationbs and then come back. Aubrey. ==== does someone have any information about the HP71 survey module (HP 82494). I could not find any on the HP museumsÇ DVD. Perhaps someone knows a trick to override the file protection. If I could read the files I could make a manual myself :) Stefan ==== I didn't mean to sound as harsh as I did. I'm glad you now know how to use the NG. Again, my apologies if I was too strident with you.... Rod > YOu are all right. I did not know how to use this correctly. I feel > dumb for suggesting, but at least I now know how to do it. ==== > within a minute or less (sometimes it varies). Browsing through messages is Of course the messages you posted on your local usenet server are going to appear very quickly. The problem is for the messages to show up on other servers, that may take a while In any case, I strongly prefer a usenet based forum as I can organize the message the way I want, save the message or flag them if I need to. I also like the ability black-list people that post nothing useful or off-topic. In any case, I believe the original poster of this thread was a throll that was just advertising is own product ==== > Yes! I like that ability as well, and the option of simply opening the > Usenet reader than going to a web site, logging in, and browsing messages > through a slower html interface (since pages have to load). My favorite is tin. -- rs, Silverlock ==== > I am really happy today.Can you imagine why?For a year i am > trying > to find greek users of HP calculotors.I have bought my HP49G last year > when i > had finished the second class of high school,here in athens.I am > really impressed by the capabilities of my HP.But don't you think that > here in athens > HP calc's are expensive? > Giannis Pallis > student. > p.s Bravo to N.Karagiorglou for his marathons.(I still do not know all > the things you are writing about but i am trying) The impossible name striked again, it's Karagiaouroglou but I guess even copy-paste can't work with that string ;-) Greetings and thanks a lot, Nick. ==== Have you read the other messages in the thread? -- Thierry Morissette thm47@msn.com > How about this for rumors: > http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi?read=29158 > X > 2) We've accelerated our product development plans and begun working with > our new aggressive sales and marketing partners around the world. can > mean > ABSOLUTELY anything or nothing. Plans are plans, and he only talks about > SALES AND MARKETING, not actual R&D. > X ==== > > The HP 9s and HP 9g are just the beginning of what we have in store for > our customers throughout the coming year, said Fred Valdez, general [...] > aggressive sales and marketing partners around the world. Is it just me, or are they bluntly threatening us? :) -- ee4299 at ee dot teiath dot gr ==== I would say that you can always buy a TI.... Do you need a better reason to buy an HP? Caspar Mariano schreef in bericht In ten years of extensive use, my HP48GX is starting to fail. I get a reset > almost every day, and the memory is lost. It is not the battery and I'm not > using any card, sometimes it just hungs up and performs a 'soft reset' as > pressing ON-C, but sometimes I get the annoying hard reset, and I loose all > memory. I guess it is time to upgrade to a new HP49, but you know that the future of > HP calculator is uncertain. I am considering maybe going for a TI, but have > no experience with such calculators. Can anyone with experience in both HP > and TI tell me what are the advantages and drawbacks of each? I want to go > for an HP, but I guess the future of TI is better. Can anyone give me a good > reason why I should not go for a TI? Mariano ==== > In ten years of extensive use, my HP48GX is starting to fail. Can anyone give me a good > reason why I should not go for a TI? > Well, the TI may also give you ten years of extensive use, but??? I am of the opinion that if you have to ask, buy TI. The Ti-89 is TI's latest (actually the V-200 is, but both are about equal). My own opinion is that you would be best served by another Hp48GX. ==== Basing your decision on whether HP will be supporting calculators in the near future is not a solid one, mainly because the existing database of software for the HP48-49 is literally huge. If you are afraid that you may need service for your calc then buy two of them! TIs are good but HPs are better!! :-) Nice and silly, eh? Well, you picked the wrong subject and newsgroup to ask such a question. You should know better! ==== I am a highschool student. I have a ti-89 and a hp49. The ti-89 has better hardware in almost every way except for memory (it still has plenty). The speed is one major advantage of the ti-89. I dont do any of my graphing on the hp. I think that they are about equal in math capability, but I prefer the CAS of the 89. The lack of RPN slows you down a little when doing numerical calculation, but it speeds you up when using the CAS. Consider for example solving an equation. on 89: solve(3x+2y=2z,x) on 49: 3x * 2y * + 2z * = x SOLVE it is more keystrokes becouse it interpretes 2x as 2 SPC x instead of 2(x) I wish that it would interpret it as 2(x) and then it would be quicker. In conclusion, I think the only disadvantages of the 89 are the lack of RPN and soft menues. And the lack of RPN is not that bad. It is nice to be able to look at the answer and what you typed in at the same time so you can insure that you no typos. I would recommend the ti-89 over the hp-49. ==== Someone has written a document about this very thing: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4738 I prefer HP over TI mainly because I like the community better. I have visited TI's in school (whether or not it sould be allowed) and people making requests for games. I also browsed through their programs, not much besides games. I found a place with downloadable applications on the official TI website, but the only useful ones weren't free. The biggest complaint people seem to have about the HP49 is the lack of good documantation. This NG has taught me more about my calculator than any calculator Urroz, that has also taught me a lot about my calculator. The next biggest complaint is the keys, but they soften upover time, and you get used to the extra stiffness. The only complaint that I haven't found a way around is the whole graphing issue. My HP definitely takes a LONG time to graph. On the other side of that, I've seen the TI89 take a comparitively huge amount of time to solve equations numerically, and evaluate integrals. I guess it really depends on what you are doing with your calculator. RPN is also a pretty big selling point. My $0.02. --CS ==== Get a 48GX while you still can. In ten years of extensive use, my HP48GX is starting to fail. I get a reset > almost every day, and the memory is lost. It is not the battery and I'm not > using any card, sometimes it just hungs up and performs a 'soft reset' as > pressing ON-C, but sometimes I get the annoying hard reset, and I loose all > memory. I guess it is time to upgrade to a new HP49, but you know that the future of > HP calculator is uncertain. I am considering maybe going for a TI, but have > no experience with such calculators. Can anyone with experience in both HP > and TI tell me what are the advantages and drawbacks of each? I want to go > for an HP, but I guess the future of TI is better. Can anyone give me a good > reason why I should not go for a TI? Mariano ==== X > on 89: solve(3x+2y=2z,x) > on 49: 3x * 2y * + 2z * = x SOLVE > it is more keystrokes becouse it interpretes 2x as 2 SPC x instead > of 2(x) > I wish that it would interpret it as 2(x) and then it would be > quicker. Have you tried it in the EQW Environment? The multiplications are filled in automatically although I have to press [ALPHA] before Y and Z ==== I thought that TI has gone further with its latest TI-89, but seems that the capabilities are still the same as the HP. I work often with MATLAB and was expecting to get a new calculator with some more power, closer to MATLAB. Since both calculators seem not to have major breakthroughs, I guess I'll get another HP. I'll remain with the HP48GX. I don't like the idea of unreliable keys (my HP is ten years old and the keys are in excellent shape). I guess the HP49G has a renewed GUI, more memory and some more stuff. But I am looking for more than just a nice GUI: more power and speed. And I see that it hasn't changed much from HP48 to HP49, I'll try to get a new HP48GX. Mariano In ten years of extensive use, my HP48GX is starting to fail. I get a reset > almost every day, and the memory is lost. It is not the battery and I'm not > using any card, sometimes it just hungs up and performs a 'soft reset' as > pressing ON-C, but sometimes I get the annoying hard reset, and I loose all > memory. I guess it is time to upgrade to a new HP49, but you know that the future of > HP calculator is uncertain. I am considering maybe going for a TI, but have > no experience with such calculators. Can anyone with experience in both HP > and TI tell me what are the advantages and drawbacks of each? I want to go > for an HP, but I guess the future of TI is better. Can anyone give me a good > reason why I should not go for a TI? Mariano ==== > I also browsed through their programs, not much besides games. I found a > place with downloadable applications on the official TI website, but the only > useful ones weren't free. I assume you know about these sites for the TI's? http://www.angelfire.com/realm/ti_tiplist/ http://tiger.towson.edu/~bbhatt1/ti/beta/MPL.htm http://triton.towson.edu/users/bbhatt1/ti/MathTools.htm -- ==== >The Ti-89 is TI's latest (actually the V-200 is, but both are about equal). but one should not forget, that the V-200 is nothing other, than an TI-92 plus with a new design, some new keys, an a new user-interface. Volker ==== I have tried EQW but I dont like it. And EQW is not rpn. Besides, the 89 has an EQW too so it is not a factor. I did not complain about the ALPHA becouse the keys can be set to whatever is wanted. Now that I think about it, I like the menues of both calculators. The 89 has sort of a combination of soft menues and drop downs. f1-f6 select the menue and then have a drop down. This is faster when alternating between several menues. This works similar to the way windows programs work (File Edit View etc.). I still recommend the 89 over the 49 for symbolics. And for numerics I recommend both the 89 and hp48 over the 49 becouse of the bad keys. This is why I just bought myself a hp48. I will use the 48 for numeric calculations and when CAS's are banned and the 89 for the CAS. I suspect that I might retire my hp49. > X > on 89: solve(3x+2y=2z,x) > on 49: 3x * 2y * + 2z * = x SOLVE > it is more keystrokes becouse it interpretes 2x as 2 SPC x instead > of 2(x) > I wish that it would interpret it as 2(x) and then it would be > quicker. > Have you tried it in the EQW Environment? > The multiplications are filled in automatically > although I have to press [ALPHA] before Y and Z ==== >I assume you know about these sites for the TI's? http://www.angelfire.com/realm/ti_tiplist/ >http://tiger.towson.edu/~bbhatt1/ti/beta/MPL.htm >http://triton.towson.edu/users/bbhatt1/ti/MathTools.htm No! They even have a program for RPN that doesn't appear to be in French. I'll starting telling TI users about this site after Spring Break. A lot of them wil be happy to have good sources for TI programs. --CS ==== >The only complaint that I haven't found a way around is the whole graphing >issue. >My HP definitely takes a LONG time to graph. Have you tried lowering the resolution using the RES command? -- Beto ==== >> The HP 48 GX has none of the above features. But it has much more >> memory, it has graphic capabilities (the HP 41 don't) and it can solve >> task symbolically (the HP 41 can't). >So, basically: >1) The best number cruncher=HP 41 [42] I agree, if the main task is solving speial numerical problems that occur on and on and it is not necessary to take a formula and solve to _another_ variable. >2) The best symbolic graphics calc= HP 48 [49]? >PS: I use the 41CX as a clock to wake me up and remainder for TV-shows Isn't the 48 loud enogh? SCNR Volker ==== X >PS: I use the 41CX as a clock to wake me up and remainder for TV-shows > Isn't the 48 loud enogh? SCNR The poor 48 series can not run a programmable alarm as a subprogram So if I'm currently using the 48GX for number-crunching the prgram just passes by as a label instead of executing the program: there is no [up-arrow][up-arrow]label operation possibility in alarm system. ==== >The poor 48 series can not run a programmable alarm as a subprogram >So if I'm currently using the 48GX for number-crunching the prgram just >passesby as a label instead of executing the program: there is no >[up-arrow][up-arrow]label operation possibility in alarm system. Ahh. Sorry, but i don't use my HP 48 as an alarm clock very often. So i didn't know about this fact. Volker ==== > I owned a '41 from when they first came out - they really were waaaay ahead > of their time. > > straight-forward/no nonesence - In comparison I've struggled badly with > the HP49g - too darned complicated. > > If anyone from HP is reading this, what I'd love to see is a HP41 'Millenium > Edition' ... > > ... something with the power & simplicity of the 41 - but with the speed and > additional memory of modern technology - and REAL KEYS! > > I'd buy one in a moment - no matter what the cost! > > Mmmmm... An HP41 with >1Mb RAM... a display that shows the complete stack, plus some registers... USB instead of HPIL, but with a line of accessories to go with it such as barcode scanners, data collection gear etc ... the same simple HP41 language, but with every extension module ever developed in ROM... maybe a few PDA-type applications -- diary, address book, text editor, to-do list... simple graphics display... an XScale CPU... Yep. I'd love one. But it'll never happen. And truthfully, most of this stuff might be better done as software for a PDA. I loved my HP41, and I'm pretty fond of my HP48s - but technology has marched on, alas. -- Steve Ballantyne (9907) ==== >Mmmmm... An HP41 with >1Mb RAM... and a much better CPU than the Saturn. And much faster. >a display that shows the complete stack, plus some registers... how will you realize that in a calc, where the stack can take full memory capacity?! How large will the display be? 50? ;-) >accessories to go with it such as barcode scanners, data collection gear >etc ... the same simple HP41 language, but with every extension module >ever developed in ROM... maybe a few PDA-type applications -- diary, >address book, text editor, to-do list... simple graphics display... an >XScale CPU... And a kind of mobile mass-storage system. For instance a drive with small MODs, like the Sony MiniDisc. But i wouldn't even refuse e sophisticatesd type of megnetic cards... Or, better, ist can handle CF-Cards, Type II preferred. With the new 3 and 4GB Microdrives there wouldn't ever be any memory-problems... ;-)) Volker ==== Or just imagine the 67CX ;-) Raymond Volker Neurath schrieb im Newsbeitrag Mmmmm... An HP41 with >1Mb RAM... and a much better CPU than the Saturn. And much faster. a display that shows the complete stack, plus some registers... how will you realize that in a calc, where the stack can take full > memory capacity?! How large will the display be? 50? ;-) accessories to go with it such as barcode scanners, data collection gear >etc ... the same simple HP41 language, but with every extension module >ever developed in ROM... maybe a few PDA-type applications -- diary, >address book, text editor, to-do list... simple graphics display... an >XScale CPU... And a kind of mobile mass-storage system. For instance a drive with > small MODs, like the Sony MiniDisc. > But i wouldn't even refuse e sophisticatesd type of megnetic cards... Or, better, ist can handle CF-Cards, Type II preferred. > With the new 3 and 4GB Microdrives there wouldn't ever be any > memory-problems... ;-)) Volker ==== > >Mmmmm... An HP41 with >1Mb RAM... > > and a much better CPU than the Saturn. And much faster. > >a display that shows the complete stack, plus some registers... > > how will you realize that in a calc, where the stack can take full > memory capacity?! How large will the display be? 50? ;-) We're talking about a super HP41 here, aren't we? Therefore the stack is only X,Y,Z,T and L , not the unlimited depth stack of a 48. And frankly, for day-to-day calculations without surplus keystrokes I much prefer the 41's four-level stack. -- Steve Ballantyne (9907) ==== >> how will you realize that in a calc, where the stack can take full >> memory capacity?! How large will the display be? 50? ;-) We're talking about a super HP41 here, aren't we? Yes. >Therefore the stack is only X,Y,Z,T and L , Why? Even a spuer-41 can have | the unlimited depth stack of a 48. >And frankly, for day-to-day calculations without >surplus keystrokes I much prefer the >41's four-level stack. Oh, even for all-day calculations i like the 48th unlimitesd stack. If i only could remember all the stack manipulation commands... Volker ==== >>> how will you realize that in a calc, where the stack can take full >>> memory capacity?! How large will the display be? 50? ;-) >>We're talking about a super HP41 here, aren't we? > Yes. >>Therefore the stack is only X,Y,Z,T and L , > Why? Even a spuer-41 can have > | the unlimited depth stack of a 48. Then it wouldn't be a 41. Lots of 41 programs depend on the 4-level stack to work correctly. I wouldn't consider any calc to be a true 41 unless it can run, unmodified, any 41 program (and that includes synthetic programs). -- rs, Silverlock ==== > >> how will you realize that in a calc, where the stack can take full >> memory capacity?! How large will the display be? 50? ;-) We're talking about a super HP41 here, aren't we? > > Yes. > >Therefore the stack is only X,Y,Z,T and L , > > Why? Even a spuer-41 can have > > | the unlimited depth stack of a 48. > >And frankly, for day-to-day calculations without >surplus keystrokes I much prefer the >41's four-level stack. > > Oh, even for all-day calculations i like the 48th unlimitesd stack. > If i only could remember all the stack manipulation commands... > I rest my case. -- Steve Ballantyne (9907) ==== >Then it wouldn't be a 41. Lots of 41 programs depend on the 4-level >stack to work correctly. I wouldn't consider any calc to be a true >41 unless it can run, unmodified, any 41 program (and that includes >synthetic programs). There is no reason, why 41-programs that make use if the 4-level-stack won't work on an unlimited stack. Volker ==== > There is no reason, why 41-programs that make use of > the 4-level-stack won't work on an unlimited stack. Actually, there are several reasons. Here are a few that spring to mind: Many RPN programs made use of the automatic replication feature of the T register (level 4, the Top level). Any such program would fail to run in RPL, which has no such feature. The program could of course be rewritten to emulate level-T-replication, but it would not be trivial. In any case, the point is that it would fail to run as-is. Also, the 4-level stack has a stack lift disable feature that makes keyboard inputs overwrite the X register instead of raising X to Y like usual. Once again, RPL has no such feature, so RPN programs that depend on it would have to be rewritten in RPL. This particular task would be trivial (just adding a DROP, probably), but it must be done or the program will fail. The HP-41 can directly address the entire stack. For example, STO Z as 3 UNPICK... but there's no simple equivalent in HP48 RPL. A particularly hairy HP-41 command that the PPC ROM made clever use of (not because it was necessary but because it's delightful to behold) is X<>L, which swaps the X register with the LASTx register. Not only does RPL have no LASTx (no, LASTARG is not the same as LASTx), but it has no swap level 1 with variable FOO' feature either. Needless to say, RPN programs containing X<>L (or any of its hairy kin) would not work in RPL without significant recoding. -Joe- ==== > There is no reason, why 41-programs that make use of >> the 4-level-stack won't work on an unlimited stack. [List of Arguments snipped] And who says, that all what you said isn't possible to implement in a new Super 41 wich has unlimited Stack? And why shouldn't it be possible, that ist has both, RPL _and_ RPN commands as well? Of course, it won't be trivial to implement this. But who said, that ist wopuld be easy to build a new super-41? Volker ==== >>> There is no reason, why 41-programs that make use of >>> the 4-level-stack won't work on an unlimited stack. > [List of Arguments snipped] > And who says, that all what you said isn't possible to implement in a > new Super 41 wich has unlimited Stack? > And why shouldn't it be possible, that ist has both, RPL _and_ RPN > commands as well? > Of course, it won't be trivial to implement this. But who said, that > ist wopuld be easy to build a new super-41? If you mean a way to turn off the unlimited stack -- perhaps a flag that makes the Super-41 operate like a real 41 -- then that would be acceptable to me. But I wouldn't want it unless it was possible to make it behave *exactly* like a 41 (except for having more memory available, of course). ==== > And why shouldn't it be possible, that ist has both, RPL _and_ RPN > commands as well? Of course, it won't be trivial to implement this. But who said, that > ist wopuld be easy to build a new super-41? > These problems have been solved long time ago by Zengrange (see below;-) > If you mean a way to turn off the unlimited stack -- perhaps a flag > that makes the Super-41 operate like a real 41 -- then that would be > acceptable to me. But I wouldn't want it unless it was possible to make > it behave *exactly* like a 41 (except for having more memory available, > of course). > So it seems the best would be to use the HP-41 emulator library from Zengrange on an HP-48. This way you could easily switch between at least *three* views (HP-48, HP-41 classic, HP-41 full stack), and two user interface styles (HP-48, HP-41). And, your HP-41 programs will run without any modifications. Raymond ==== >>> There is no reason, why 41-programs that make use of >>> the 4-level-stack won't work on an unlimited stack. > [List of Arguments snipped] > And who says, that all what you said isn't possible to implement in a > new Super 41 wich has unlimited Stack? And why shouldn't it be possible, that ist has both, RPL _and_ RPN > commands as well? Of course, it won't be trivial to implement this. But who said, that > ist wopuld be easy to build a new super-41? If you mean a way to turn off the unlimited stack -- perhaps a flag > that makes the Super-41 operate like a real 41 -- then that would be > acceptable to me. But I wouldn't want it unless it was possible to make > it behave *exactly* like a 41 (except for having more memory available, > of course). The Super-41 A) could have that flag top set compatibility mode B) Have an adjustable stack size, where 0 SSIZE means unlimited (memory permitting) sized stack, yours could have 4 SSIZE, which is naturally the default, whil.9ae mine could be 5 SSIZE ==== > If you mean a way to turn off the unlimited stack -- perhaps a flag > that makes the Super-41 operate like a real 41 -- then that would be > acceptable to me. But I wouldn't want it unless it was possible to make > it behave *exactly* like a 41 (except for having more memory available, > of course). > -- > Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise Gene: I have one of these Super HP-41s. It's called an HP-42S that has been upgraded to 32K of ram. :-) That's almost close enough to my ultimate machine. If only it had I/O. -- * These statements and opinions are mine alone and do not reflect my employer's views. * ==== Just some thought and comments... > > There is no reason, why 41-programs that make use of > the 4-level-stack won't work on an unlimited stack. > > Actually, there are several reasons. Here are a few that spring to mind: > > Many RPN programs made use of the automatic replication feature of the T > register (level 4, the Top level). Any such program would fail to run in RPL, > which has no such feature. The program could of course be rewritten to > emulate level-T-replication, but it would not be trivial. In any case, the > point is that it would fail to run as-is. This can be done using some local variable on the 48/49. As about trivial or non-trivial, I think that it can't be very complicated if one completely abandons the T-stack-replication-principle. > Also, the 4-level stack has a stack lift disable feature that makes keyboard > inputs overwrite the X register instead of raising X to Y like usual. Once > again, RPL has no such feature, so RPN programs that depend on it would have > to be rewritten in RPL. This particular task would be trivial (just adding a > DROP, probably), but it must be done or the program will fail. I consider the behavior of the newer machines better in the sence that it is more generalized. There are no buts. Any command will remove its arguments from the stack and return results on the stack (if any). There are no commands that expect their arguments/parameters after them. A generalized behavior, fewer rules, fewer things to remember. In other words a simpler world. > The HP-41 can directly address the entire stack. For example, STO Z > as 3 UNPICK... but there's no simple equivalent in HP48 RPL. Without UNPICK we can do that using: << -> l << l ROLL DROP DUP l ROLLD >> where l is the number of the stack level where we want to store the contents of stack level 1. I don't know if that can be called simple. > A particularly hairy HP-41 command that the PPC ROM made clever use of (not > because it was necessary but because it's delightful to behold) is X<>L, which > swaps the X register with the LASTx register. Not only does RPL have no LASTx > (no, LASTARG is not the same as LASTx), It is not the same and LASTARG is better (for me) because from LASTARG you can get LASTx, while the opposite is not always possible. Anyway, LASTx can be done using vectored enter and some variable as storage place for the last level 1 argument. > but it has no swap level 1 with > variable FOO' feature either. Oh, come on now Joe! DUP RCL UNROT STO would do that. > Needless to say, RPN programs containing X<>L > (or any of its hairy kin) would not work in RPL without significant recoding. Oh well, depends on what you call significant, but you are right saying that recoding is needed. Anyway, I just wonder if still treasuring the 41 (which I also do) perhaps has to do with... nostalgia...??? You know, in the sense: oh that beautiful times when I was young and full of enthousiasm for that fantastic technology and felt like Perry Rhodan.... Perhaps one should keep that enthousiastic thinking for ever and consider anything with that particular enthousiasm which was part of the considerations in those glorious days of the 41? Perhaps.. Greetings, Nick Banner. ==== I would guess you could easily find someone willing to give you a 48 for a 41CX in good condition, but not many who would give up a 41CX for a 48. --Lars ==== Is a slide rule worth a 41CX? Stan Warning: Opinions subject to change without notice. > >>Mmmmm... An HP41 with >1Mb RAM... >> >> and a much better CPU than the Saturn. And much faster. >> >>a display that shows the complete stack, plus some registers... >> >> how will you realize that in a calc, where the stack can take full >> memory capacity?! How large will the display be? 50? ;-) We're talking about a super HP41 here, aren't we? Therefore the stack is >only X,Y,Z,T and L , not the unlimited depth stack of a 48. And frankly, >for day-to-day calculations without surplus keystrokes I much prefer the >41's four-level stack. ==== > > >>Mmmmm... An HP41 with >1Mb RAM... >> >> and a much better CPU than the Saturn. And much faster. >> >>a display that shows the complete stack, plus some registers... >> >> how will you realize that in a calc, where the stack can take full >> memory capacity?! How large will the display be? 50? ;-) We're talking about a super HP41 here, aren't we? Therefore the stack is >only X,Y,Z,T and L , not the unlimited depth stack of a 48. And frankly, >for day-to-day calculations without surplus keystrokes I much prefer the >41's four-level stack. > > Is a slide rule worth a 41CX? > If they ever made a programmable slide rule, I never heard about it. However, I do have a bamboo Hemmi 251 with leather case, and a plastic Faber Castell Rietz 57/87 with case and manual, either of which I'd swap for a working 41CX... -- Steve Ballantyne (9907) ==== > Is a slide rule worth a 41CX? I'd say it depends on the type and condition of the slide rule, and the condition of the 41. Some slipsticks can be bought for a few dollars, others cost hundreds. I'm keeping my 41CX *and* my slide rules. -- rs, Silverlock ==== I keep my old slide rule in case the power goes out. ; -) >> Is a slide rule worth a 41CX? I'd say it depends on the type and condition of the slide rule, and the >condition of the 41. Some slipsticks can be bought for a few dollars, >others cost hundreds. I'm keeping my 41CX *and* my slide rules. ==== > > Is a slide rule worth a 41CX? Depends on the slide rule. I own among others a Keuffel & Esser 4081-5 Log Log Duplex Decitrig - the scale is 20 long - in practically mint condition, only a slight patina due to a couple decades of careful use, in its original orange leather case. I taught my teenage daughter logarithms on it, try doing that half as effectively on any digital device. I wouldn't trade my 4081-5 for another HP41-CX, or even another HP41-CV with a quad memory module. Then again I've already got one of each of those too... Yours WD old K - WKiernan@concentric.net ==== I wounder is there away work like in Excel on the HP 49G. First I enter a series of numbers in the martixwriter, then how can I enter equation for a hole colum? I tried Xcell48 but I could get a plot. How do I get a scatter plot i Xcell48? Is it possible to export a file from Xcell48 an then open it in the matrixwriter? How do I convert the textfile I get from Xcell48, so I use it in the matrixwriter? Joakim ==== Yo! I donno, man. I used to make a copy of the numeric matrix and then use - was it MAP - to the copy. Also using AXL and then DOSUBS or DOLIST can simulate some sort of spreadsheet... I wounder is there away work like in Excel on the HP 49G. First I enter a > series of numbers in the martixwriter, then how can I enter equation for a > hole colum? I tried Xcell48 but I could get a plot. How do I get a scatter > plot i Xcell48? Is it possible to export a file from Xcell48 an then open it > in the matrixwriter? How do I convert the textfile I get from Xcell48, so I > use it in the matrixwriter? > Joakim ==== --------------------------------------------------------------------- Hallo ! my mesurements and findings. It seems not so easy with the vertical synchronization. I think they designed a little mess with this nice feature. greetings, Christian Daniel > > I can't comment on the electronics of it but I can tell you that the > overhead display unit is exceedingly annoying because if you plug the > calculator into it while it is switched on then the LCD in the panel > almost always displays 'rolled' by about half a screen and you have to > repeatedly hit a button to roll it down the screen until it displays > properly. On the other hand if you plug it in with the calculator > switched off and then turn the calculator on then there is usually no > problem. This is the case for the 38G and the 39/40G. > > Hallo ! I just analyzed the video signals on the 10 pin connector of the HP38G > calculator. I think they are more or less identical to the HP48GX > signals found on the internal connector. But I found a problem with the vertical synchronization. This bit > sometimes vanishes, for instance in the plot screen without any menue > bar. Does anybody have any further informations about the display video > signals? > There had been some overhad displays for the HP38G and HP48GX. How they > done it ?? Greetings, Christian Daniel --------------------------------------------------------------------- name=christian.daniel.vcf filename=christian.daniel.vcf begin:vcard n:Daniel;Christian tel;work:++49/421/539-4694 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Astrium Space Infrastructure;IO 65, Data Processing Equipment adr:;;Huenefeldstrasse 1-5;Bremen;;D-28199;Germany version:2.1 x-mozilla-cpt:;29752 fn:Christian Daniel end:vcard --------------3C34DAB176F052981DD61814-- ==== Links of the new Casio ClassPad 300 Books in: www.classpad.org/classpad_files/ClassPad_sample1.pdf www.classpad.org/classpad_files/ClassPad_sample2.pdf www.classpad.org/classpad.html Games in: www.classpad.org/Classpad/classpad_chip.htm otros links www.casio.com/education/index.cfm?page=/education/a22_vs_ti.htm www.mi.uni-erlangen.de/~tschach/Saarb/VortragSB.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/advanced_geometry/Napoleon.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/Parabolas.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/Ellipses.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/Tangents.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/LinearEquations.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/Sequences.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/Collinearity.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/Slope.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/SlopeHotlink.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/InterceptHotlink.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/Area.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/SimilarTriangles.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/SumAnglesRegularPolygon.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/ParallelsPerpendiculars.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/SlopesPerpendiculars.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/SpecialShapes.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/LineThru1Point.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/LinearEquations/LineThru2Points.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/advanced_geometry/Napoleon.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/advanced_geometry/Paucellier.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/advanced_geometry/4_Bar_Linkage.html www.classpad.org/Classpad/advanced_geometry/Cubic_Spline.html www.casio.co.jp/edu_e/support/faq/faq_hpc.html www.casio.com/education/index.cfm?page=/education/computer.htm ==== I'm moving my first steps in programming my HP48G (512Kb upgrade by Cynox). First result is the following procedure that draft the well known Mandelbrot set. Yes, I know it's really slow (about half an hour, depending also from the loops'max recursion number), but, I repeat, it's my first attempt, so please, be patient... In my intention this was to be my first, symbolic contribute to the list. In reality, I know it's a quite hilarious, slow, implementation in RPL. So, let me say that I take occasion to welcome any suggestion and encouragement to: 1) make more slender and fast this procedure. 2) better, have news by someone interested in translating in System RPL and make also a more complete program. By myself, I'm strongly interested in learning Sys RPL, but: 1) time is lacking 2) I wish to start gradually, and while several guides are available on the net (I've downloaded and printed several ones), the ones with a less steep learning curve are out of publication, or really expensive when available here in Italy. Who knows, in the future... P.S. As the Mandelbrot set program is quite slow in completing a draw, if anyone interested in getting a pair of completed picture would help me suggesting on how to take them off from my HP48 and make them available on the net, I would be happy. Gianluca << erase -2.58 -0.88 0 0 0 -> <-A <-B <-X <-Y <-N << 0 130 for <-J <-A 0.0299237 + '<-A' sto -.88 '<-B' sto 0 63 for <-k <-B 0.0275 + '<-B' sto 0 '<-X' sto 0 '<-Y' sto 0 '<-N' sto while <-N 100 < <-X SQ <-Y + 4 < and repeat <-X SQ <-Y SQ - <-A + 2 <-X * <-Y * <-B + <-N 1 + '<-N' sto '<-Y' sto '<-X' sto end if <-N 2 mod 0 == then <-J <-K R->C pixon end next next >> PP.S.: -> and <- are, respectively, the right and left arrow symbols; the only effective minus relation is the one in the while condition line. ==== try this link: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/graphics/misc/beno.zip or more general: http://www.hpcalc.org/search.php?query=Mandelbrot I haven't checked them all, but maybe the one or other comes with sources and/or explanation. Have fun, Raymond ==== X > P.S. As the Mandelbrot set program is quite slow in completing a draw, X It's time for ML ==== > X > P.S. As the Mandelbrot set program is quite slow in completing a draw, > X > It's time for ML If you go to hpcalc.org and type MANDELBROT into the search field, you'll get lots of programs (including mine). There's one in ML as well, and fairly fast. If you want *really* fast fractals on a PC, do a search for FRACTINT on the Web. It's completely amazing. Best wishes, Bill ==== I have bought two Klotz's memory cards (128kb and 1Mb) last summer, they works fine for several months, but the 128 kb has failed. I don't know what is happening. First it causes a Invalid card data error, It's an usually message with low battery, I changed it but the problem continues. In last weeks I haven't installed new libraries, so it don't seems to be a problem of corrupted libraries. I proved it in other empty memory hp48, slot 1, and the invalid card data continues, PINIT don't solve the problem. But if I store a library in port 1, it works, but always I switch on the calculator, all libraries are initialized. I removed the batterie from the card for a week, and when I use it again the problem is exactly the same. Really I don't understand what is happening and I'm not sure it's a hardware ==== > I have bought two Klotz's memory cards (128kb and 1Mb) last summer, they > works fine for several months, but the 128 kb has failed. I don't know what > is happening. First it causes a Invalid card data error, It's an usually > message with low battery, I changed it but the problem continues. In last > weeks I haven't installed new libraries, so it don't seems to be a problem > of corrupted libraries. > I proved it in other empty memory hp48, slot 1, and the invalid card data > continues, PINIT don't solve the problem. But if I store a library in port > 1, it works, but always I switch on the calculator, all libraries are > initialized. I removed the batterie from the card for a week, and when I use > it again the problem is exactly the same. > Really I don't understand what is happening and I'm not sure it's a hardware I'm sure he'll help you determine where the problem lies and replace the card if it's defective. -- rs, Silverlock ==== Every time that a card gives me spurious Invalid Card Data errors, it gets solved by cleaning the card's contacts AND the port's contacts. The latter can be done by doing the former, then inserting and removing the card a bunch of times, and repeating until no more gunk shows up when cleaning the card's contacts. I even have a few cards that only work when FIRMLY seated. Just plugging 'em in isn't enough; I have to WIGGLE 'em in place and then push hard on both of the card's corners. Then the Invalid Card Data message goes away and all's well... until I drop the calculator and the card moves slightly. )-: Hey, anybody know a better way to clean the port contacts? My way seems like brushing one's teeth with a TOOTSIE ROLL. (Would that lead to TOOTH ROT? Do dentists perform TOOTH UNROT? Should I use a TOOTH PICK or a TOOTH UNPICK?) -jkh- ==== >Every time that a card gives me spurious Invalid Card Data errors, it gets >solved by cleaning the card's contacts AND the port's contacts. The latter >can be done by doing the former, then inserting and removing the card a bunch >of times, and repeating until no more gunk shows up when cleaning the card's >contacts. I even have a few cards that only work when FIRMLY seated. Just plugging 'em >in isn't enough; I have to WIGGLE 'em in place and then push hard on both of >the card's corners. Then the Invalid Card Data message goes away and all's >well... until I drop the calculator and the card moves slightly. )-: Hey, anybody know a better way to clean the port contacts? My way seems like >brushing one's teeth with a TOOTSIE ROLL. (Would that lead to TOOTH ROT? Do >dentists perform TOOTH UNROT? Should I use a TOOTH PICK or a TOOTH UNPICK?) -jkh- > Someone once told me to use an eraser similar to one on a number 2 lead pencil. An ink eraser might work too. It seems to be a bit more abrasive. I used these methods on my old TI-59 printer contacts and TI-59 calculator. Harold A. Climer Physics/Astronomy Lab Instructor U. Tennessee At Chattanooga ==== > Hey, anybody know a better way to clean the port contacts? > Someone once told me to use an eraser ... Card contacts, ok. But how about the *port* contacts? -Joe- ==== >Card contacts, ok. But how about the *port* contacts? > Ordinary white paper is around the right consistency. Use something of the right thickness to support it (popsicle stick?). Do it in the summer when the humidity is up, or find some way to prevent the static build-up rubbing an insulator on the metal contacts. Bill alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) ==== Two months ago I bought two Klotz's memory cards (128kb and 4Mb). The first worked and works fine, but the 4mb one gave me some problems. My problem is that fi the card is inserted to the end of the slot, then it gives me the invalid card data error and appears only with one :2: port. The result is that it doesn't work. I send back the card to Klotz, he said that there was a problem with contacts, solders or something similar, but it was solved and tested. But when the card returned to me, it worked in the same way than before the reparation. I don't know how I realized that if i insert only a little the card and then push it with the black cap. But my memory and my calc are now working fine. After all, there is a problem with dimensions in my calc, my ram card or in both. I hope that my experiences will help you to solve your problem. And other thing, when I send my card back to Klotz, i had no problems with Ricardo Garc.92a Wayne Brown escribi.97 en el mensaje > I have bought two Klotz's memory cards (128kb and 1Mb) last summer, they > works fine for several months, but the 128 kb has failed. I don't know what > is happening. First it causes a Invalid card data error, It's an usually > message with low battery, I changed it but the problem continues. In last > weeks I haven't installed new libraries, so it don't seems to be a problem > of corrupted libraries. I proved it in other empty memory hp48, slot 1, and the invalid card data > continues, PINIT don't solve the problem. But if I store a library in port > 1, it works, but always I switch on the calculator, all libraries are > initialized. I removed the batterie from the card for a week, and when I use > it again the problem is exactly the same. Really I don't understand what is happening and I'm not sure it's a hardware I'm sure he'll help you determine where the problem lies and replace > the card if it's defective. -- yers Myers, Silverlock > ==== > > I think you should enter -1. and 0. in the matrix A (note the decimal points), > it will work then. > Apparently the numeric solver doesn't check the type of the input matrix > (in this case, A is type 29. because it contains an integer - if you change > the -1 and 0 to -1. and 0., the matrix type becomes 3. - real matrix.) > Definitely a bug. > > Werner I didn't think of. Bill ==== >> Usually the numeric solver in HP49 (the solve lin sys in this >> case) seems to work ok, but today it gave me really strange >> results. Either this is a bug or (more likely) I've managed to set >> some very esoteric flag. But I can't find what is wrong and a on+F3 >> doesn't helt. ROM version is 1.19-6 [...] > You should report this on the bug list as a SERIOUS bug. > > There is something strange going on here. If it hasn't been reported already could any of you guys do it - you seem to have a much deeper understanding of the details of the problem than I do (and I don't have a Bugzilla account)? ==== (in message <55447677.0303100727.5067a764@posting.google.com>): > Is anyone familiar with this calculator? I own one! As far as hardware is concerned, it is basically a Ti-92+ with more flash memory and a smaller form factor. Same speed and same amount of RAM though (what a pity). For those who don't know, the main processor is a MC-68000, which is a very nice and fast processor. I suppose it will be easy to overclock it significantly (I'll do it when my warranty expire). As far as software is concerned, the current OS is AMS 2.08, which includes the full set of trig and hyperbolic functions (24 of them), a useless icon desktop, and a full set of clock functions. Built in apps include data/matrix editor, grapher, numeric solver, program editor, text editor, table editor, function editor Bundled apps include a spreadsheet, stat package, simult eq solver, finance tool, polynomial root finder, and two very nice geometry tools Now my personal judgement as an HP lover (I have/had an HP-41CV, HP16-C, The V200 hardware is head and shoulder above the HP49G. Unfortunately, the software is not very well optimized and for most tasks, the speed is not really up to par. In most cases however, it is still faster than an HP-49G. The TI software is significantly less powerful than the HP49G. However it is still good enough for most tasks. The TI learning curve is several orders of magnitude less steep than the HP49G's. Being the owner of both, it turns out that I take my V200 first and turn to my HP49G if the V200 fails. Overall, I use the V200 95% of the time. I am sorry I had to write this. J-D ==== > I am sorry I had to write this. Sorry? What for? Also, as far as TI functionality goes, in case you haven't heard about the tip list: http://www.angelfire.com/realm/ti_tiplist/ or MathTools (download link at the top): http://triton.towson.edu/users/bbhatt1/ti/MathTools.htm A fellow TI user, . ==== > or MathTools (download link at the top): > > http://triton.towson.edu/users/bbhatt1/ti/MathTools.htm That looks quite interesting, but the download link gives a page unavailable error. Also, by when do you plan to fix the serious bugs (Priority 1 and 2, I guess)? -- Helen. ==== > or MathTools (download link at the top): > > http://triton.towson.edu/users/bbhatt1/ti/MathTools.htm > > That looks quite interesting, but the download link gives a page > unavailable error. Oops, sorry, thanks for catching that. The link should be: http://triton.towson.edu/users/bbhatt1/ti/mathtools.zip > Also, by when do you plan to fix the serious bugs > (Priority 1 and 2, I guess)? All three priority 1 bugs should be fixed by the next release, if all goes well. I also plan to update GMP and fix the CoefList bug soon. I'm not sure about the others, since I'm short on time at the moment. . ==== > Oops, sorry, thanks for catching that. The link should be: > > http://triton.towson.edu/users/bbhatt1/ti/mathtools.zip Whoops, now your web pages are gone altogether. Looks like they did not like you using their web site for distribution of your software... > Also, by when do you plan to fix the serious bugs > (Priority 1 and 2, I guess)? > > All three priority 1 bugs should be fixed by the next release, if all > goes well. I also plan to update GMP and fix the CoefList bug soon. > I'm not sure about the others, since I'm short on time at the moment. Very nice collection. It's almost as nice as John Holland's Engineering Mathematics Library for the HP48. _That_ is what should have been built into the 49, instead of the half-broken and mostly useless CAS. I would take a TI with your Mathtools over any HP49 anytime... -- Helen. ==== > Oops, sorry, thanks for catching that. The link should be: > > http://triton.towson.edu/users/bbhatt1/ti/mathtools.zip > > Whoops, now your web pages are gone altogether. Looks like they did > not like you using their web site for distribution of your software... I'm sure it isn't that, but everything is still downloadable if you replace triton by tiger in the URL, e.g. http://tiger.towson.edu/users/bbhatt1/ti/mathtools.zip You can also download MathTools from: ftp://ftp.ti.com/pub/graph-ti/calc-apps/89/math/ ftp://ftp.ti.com/pub/graph-ti/calc-apps/92plus/math/ Needless to say, I'll try to get the problem fixed as soon as possible. > Very nice collection. > It's almost as nice as John Holland's > Engineering Mathematics Library for the HP48. Can you provide a download URL (well, mainly to the manual)? -- ==== > I would take a TI with your Mathtools over any HP49 > anytime... > > -- Helen. ad nauseum ==== Maybe ya'll dont want to get into a flame war over which company makes better calcs, we have seen enough of them, but I would like to point out the excellent C compiler available for TI-68k calcs. TI programmers also have FLASH Studio but thats not really anything to brag about. ==== > It's almost as nice as John Holland's > Engineering Mathematics Library for the HP48. > > Can you provide a download URL (well, mainly to the manual)? Unfortunately, it is no freely available anywhere. The library was sold as an add-in card for the HP48 which came with a 600-page book by Academic Press. Amazon still seems to carry it, but it's over 200 dollars... On the other hand, an HP48 with that library is far and away the best handheld numerical machine to be had anywhere on this planet, bar none. -- Helen. ==== > Maybe ya'll dont want to get into a flame war over which company makes > better calcs, we have seen enough of them, but I would like to point > out the excellent C compiler available for TI-68k calcs. Yes, their C development environment is beautiful. It's a shame that so few people make use of it. It is entirely clear that the high-end TIs have much more potential than any of the comparable HPs, but the user community is different. That may change, though, now that HP is out of the picture. -- Helen. ==== many C compilers don't have many features (like for microcontrollers). is the TI C ansiC compliant or a pseudo C. ie. could you use the GNU scientific library? (i got gcc and gdb installed in my PDA hi hi). can you optimize? does it come with a good debuger? how many functions does it come with? TX > Maybe ya'll dont want to get into a flame war over which company makes > better calcs, we have seen enough of them, but I would like to point > out the excellent C compiler available for TI-68k calcs. > > Yes, their C development environment is beautiful. It's a shame that > so few people make use of it. It is entirely clear that the high-end > TIs have much more potential than any of the comparable HPs, but the > user community is different. That may change, though, now that HP is > out of the picture. > > -- Helen. ==== > > many C compilers don't have many features (like for microcontrollers). > is the TI C ansiC compliant or a pseudo C. ie. could you use the GNU > scientific library? (i got gcc and gdb installed in my PDA hi hi). can > you optimize? does it come with a good debuger? how many functions > does it come with? You can take a look yourself. There's basically two options: TIGCC (see http://tigcc.ticalc.org/), or TI's SDK, downloadable for free at TI's website. TIGCC is based on Gnu gcc, and thus should be fully ANSI compliant, but they did not have a C debugger yet last time I looked. -- Helen. ==== > > many C compilers don't have many features (like for microcontrollers). > is the TI C ansiC compliant or a pseudo C. ie. could you use the GNU > scientific library? (i got gcc and gdb installed in my PDA hi hi). can > you optimize? does it come with a good debuger? how many functions > does it come with? The c compiler is the gcc port to the 68k processor. The compiler does optomize. Sadly there is no debugger. It comes with more than a thousand: They have stopped keeping close track. This includes rom calls as well as other functions to provide functions of the studio and standard libraries. I guess you could use the gnu scientific library. How large is this library? The sdk by texas instruments does have a pc based debugger/simulator. But the compiler is not as good as gcc. -Samuel ==== hi Helen, I like it (tigcc)! looks nice TX > > many C compilers don't have many features (like for microcontrollers). > is the TI C ansiC compliant or a pseudo C. ie. could you use the GNU > scientific library? (i got gcc and gdb installed in my PDA hi hi). can > you optimize? does it come with a good debuger? how many functions > does it come with? > > You can take a look yourself. There's basically two options: TIGCC > (see http://tigcc.ticalc.org/), or TI's SDK, downloadable for free at > TI's website. TIGCC is based on Gnu gcc, and thus should be fully ANSI > compliant, but they did not have a C debugger yet last time I looked. > > -- Helen. ==== hi Samuel, thanks for your reply. i don't know of hand how large the library is. it has lots of stuff. i think that if the TIgcc is anciC then it could be used :) > > many C compilers don't have many features (like for microcontrollers). > is the TI C ansiC compliant or a pseudo C. ie. could you use the GNU > scientific library? (i got gcc and gdb installed in my PDA hi hi). can > you optimize? does it come with a good debuger? how many functions > does it come with? > > > > The c compiler is the gcc port to the 68k processor. The compiler > does optomize. Sadly there is no debugger. It comes with more than a > thousand: They have stopped keeping close track. This includes rom > calls as well as other functions to provide functions of the studio > and standard libraries. I guess you could use the gnu scientific > library. How large is this library? > > The sdk by texas instruments does have a pc based debugger/simulator. > But the compiler is not as good as gcc. > > -Samuel ==== (in message <662e00ed.0303111533.5205e88c@posting.google.com>): > >> I am sorry I had to write this. > > Sorry? What for? Out of pure nostalgia, I guess... I also find the HP more fun to use than the TI, but I guess this is because I am more or less a techie. A more objective reason is that I feel that I need to carry *two* calculators with me, even for the 5% cases I need to go beyond the TI abilities. Jean-Denis ==== > Sorry? What for? > > Out of pure nostalgia, I guess... I also find the HP more fun to use than the > TI, but I guess this is because I am more or less a techie. Yeah, I guess it's more likely that one would stick to what he/she started out with. > A more objective reason is that I feel that I need to carry *two* calculators > with me, even for the 5% cases I need to go beyond the TI abilities. Can you give examples of those cases? ==== Greetings from Austria I am sorry to post in this newsgroup. But I have to sell my TI 200 out of financial reasons and want to get sure that someone buys it :) (Ebay seems not to be the place where a lot of people sell calculators) so here it is: http://cgi.ebay.at/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3406689569 -- ==== > Greetings from Austria > I am sorry to post in this newsgroup. But I have to sell my TI 200 out > of financial reasons and want to get sure that someone buys it :) > (Ebay seems not to be the place where a lot of people sell calculators) This is like trying to sell bibles to atheists. ==== > This is like trying to sell bibles to atheists. Sorry for that, but I need to sell it and found after a google-search not much newsgroups about the topic calculators. Any suggestions are welcome. -- ==== Did someone port FEM48 v5.2 to HP 49G? :) Please!!! P.S. I am student in VERY small and poor contry... :( ==== HI! You can try on www.hpcalc.org or author's home page (click the (H) on hpcalc beside the author). But as far as I know from the home page, the FEM48 5.2 is the same for both 48 and 49. But I'm not 100% sure:) Haven't tried yet:) Hope I helped:) KORPi > Did someone port FEM48 v5.2 to HP 49G? :) Please!!! P.S. I am student in VERY small and poor contry... :( ==== No existe la version FEM49v5.2 para la hp49g, Caspar esta haciendo el FEM49v5.3 pero aun no esta terminado, recien la estamos probando, en cuanto este lista se publicara ... Saludos desde Peru Oscar Fuentes Fuentes > HI! > > You can try on www.hpcalc.org or author's home page (click the (H) on hpcalc > beside the author). But as far as I know from the home page, the FEM48 5.2 > is the same for both 48 and 49. But I'm not 100% sure:) Haven't tried yet:) > > Hope I helped:) > > KORPi > > Did someone port FEM48 v5.2 to HP 49G? :) Please!!! P.S. I am student in VERY small and poor contry... :( ==== The FEM49v5.2 version does not exist for hp49g, Caspar this making the FEM49v5.3 but even not this finished, recien we are proving it, as soon as this list was published... Greetings from Ica-Peru Oscar Fuentes Fuentes > HI! > > You can try on www.hpcalc.org or author's home page (click the (H) on hpcalc > beside the author). But as far as I know from the home page, the FEM48 5.2 > is the same for both 48 and 49. But I'm not 100% sure:) Haven't tried yet:) > > Hope I helped:) > > KORPi > > Did someone port FEM48 v5.2 to HP 49G? :) Please!!! P.S. I am student in VERY small and poor contry... :( ==== > Did someone port FEM48 v5.2 to HP 49G? :) Please!!! We are in the process of beta-testing the FEM49 v5.3 version. When it is ok, I will release it on my homepage and hpcalc.org (including FEM48 v5.3). > P.S. I am student in VERY small and poor contry... :( Lucky for you I made FEM48/49 free then. C ==== I've bought a hp49g from a friend, in its original package like a newone! I've started use the 49g for 2 months before the real one arrive.. and I've spent the last 2 nights in searching the manuals (also in advanced user's guide), about this problem.. but nothing appear! The Filer says that port 1 have no free rooms.. and if I enter I'll find only absurd strings with the description of exter.. Somebody here that can help me? Sorry about my English (I'm italian), but it language.. ;) , I know also RPN.. (-: Greetz, Shidov ==== >I've bought a hp49g from a friend, in its original package like a newone! I've started use the 49g for 2 months before the real one arrive.. and I've >spent the last 2 nights in searching the manuals (also in advanced user's >guide), about this problem.. but nothing appear! The Filer says that port 1 have no free rooms.. and if I enter I'll find >only absurd strings with the description of exter.. Somebody here that can help me? Sorry about my English (I'm italian), but it >language.. ;) , I know also RPN.. (-: Greetz, Shidov Type PINIT and your problems will go away. -- Beto ==== (shudder!) but will try and adhere to standard policy for future postings. > I'm only an HP49G-newbie not a USENET-newbie! My apologies! I now see that your longest line was only 76 columns. I inadvertently had my editor set so it wasn't showing 80 columns, and with the > prefixed, I saw some lines extending all the way to the right edge, and wrongly jumped to the conclusion that your lines were too long. Best of luck on writing programs; I expect that you'll find the 49G much more useful after you add some of your own programs to it. -- James ==== Does anyone know of any programs for the HP 49 that will enhance its ability to do symbolic integration? Stan ==== I'm trying to set up some equations for chemistry course on an HP48GX, to be solved using the equation solver. The solver is a good way to do it because any of the variables may be called for in a problem. For example, an equation that defines the change in equilibrium constant with temperature: Ln(K2/K1) = Ea/8.314 * (1/T1 - 1/T2) A given problem could ask for K2, K1, T2, T1, or Ea. That part works in the solver. However, every new problem that is done leaves the home or current directory cluttered with new variable names. To get around this, I made a program that makes a new subdirectory 'temp', switches to it, and sets the variable 'EQ' to the desired equation. It would be nice to start the 'solve' function by program, and then automatically clean up by UPDIR and purging TEMP. But there seems to be no way to start 'solve' within a user program, so I have to just prompt to start the solver, and make up a temporary menu with a command DONE, that the user presses after using the solver, that does the cleanup. Does anybody know a way to use the solver within a user program? Or could someone suggest a whole different approach? -- john ==== > Does anybody know a way to use the solver within a user program? 30 MENU does the trick. The following program stores an equation into 'EQ', starts the solver, and then when you press the CONT key it cleans up after itself. sqrt is the square root symbol. << 'S=E*sqrt(1-V^2)' STEQ 30 MENU HALT { S E V } PURGE 2 MENU >> S = elapsed time in Space E = elapsed time on Earth V = velocity / speed of light (e.g. .5 means half light speed) Run the program. Play with Einstein's Twin Paradox. When finished, press CONT (shift-ON). The variables automatically get purged. The above is just one way to do it. Many others have been discussed here over the years. Hope this helps! -Joe- ==== > Does anybody know a way to use the solver within a user program? 30 MENU does the trick. The following program stores an equation into 'EQ', starts the solver, and >then when you press the CONT key it cleans up after itself. sqrt is the >square root symbol. << 'S=E*sqrt(1-V^2)' STEQ 30 MENU > HALT { S E V } PURGE 2 MENU > >S = elapsed time in Space >E = elapsed time on Earth >V = velocity / speed of light (e.g. .5 means half light speed) Run the program. Play with Einstein's Twin Paradox. When finished, press >CONT (shift-ON). The variables automatically get purged. The above is just one way to do it. Many others have been discussed here over >the years. I tried that, and it will sure do the job. But the little app that runs when you press right-arrow 7 (solve). Is there any way to evoke that one in a program? -- john ==== >> Does anybody know a way to use the solver within a user program? >>30 MENU does the trick. >>The following program stores an equation into 'EQ', starts the solver, and >>then when you press the CONT key it cleans up after itself. sqrt is the >>square root symbol. >><< 'S=E*sqrt(1-V^2)' STEQ 30 MENU >> HALT { S E V } PURGE 2 MENU >>S = elapsed time in Space >>E = elapsed time on Earth >>V = velocity / speed of light (e.g. .5 means half light speed) >>Run the program. Play with Einstein's Twin Paradox. When finished, press >>CONT (shift-ON). The variables automatically get purged. >>The above is just one way to do it. Many others have been discussed here over >>the years. I tried that, and it will sure do the job. But the little app that >runs when you press right-arrow 7 (solve). Is there any way to evoke >that one in a program? I guess I answered too soon, before trying the method you suggested. I tried it with the equation I gave, and entered all the variables but Ea, and when I tried to solve for that, I couldn't find any way to get a numeric solution. With the solver menu that comes up for right arrow 7, you just fill in the known variables, set the cursor over the unknown one, and press 'solve', and it finds the value of the unknown, regardless which variable that is. Am I misunderstanding something about that menu 30? -- john ==== > I couldn't find any way to get a numeric solution. > Am I misunderstanding something about that menu 30? Short answer: [left-shift][n] solves for n. More complete answer: Yes, menu 30 acts differently from all other menus. It is optimized for fast & easy interactive solving of equations. Once you get used to it, you'll NEVER go back to the input form solver. Menu 30 is the best invention since tachyons. The non-obvious but essential keystrokes in menu 30 are: To SOLVE for [n], press [left-shift][n]. To STORE into [n], press [n], unshifted. To RECALL the value of [n], press [right-shift][n]. That's all you really need, but here are a few other goodies that power users find very helpful: (1) Use menu 30 directly from the keyboard (not in a program) by pressing [left-shift][7][ROOT]. Type your equation and press [left-shift][EQ][SOLVR]. In a program, use STEQ and 30 MENU as described in the previous posting. (2) Pressing any key (other than ON) while the solver is working will force it to display its progress so that you can watch it converge on the solution. Besides being cool to watch, it's useful especially in two cases: (a) when the solver is taking a very long time and you want to know if it's converging or just spinning its wheels; and (b) when the equation has multiple solutions and you want to get a feel for where they are without graphing the equation. (3) You can set the solver's initial guess by storing that value into that variable. Example: To solve for n at an initial guess of 5, press 5 [n] before solving for n (by pressing [left-shift][n]). (4) You can force the solver to find a solution within a given interval by storing the interval (as a list) into the variable. Example: To find a solution for n between 2 and 6, press { 2 6 } [n] before solving for n. Press any key right away, and you'll see the process begin at 2 and 6. If no solution is found in that interval, the solver will hunt for one elsewhere. (5) You can combine both of the above by storing a list containing three values: the interval and the initial guess. Example: To solve for n between 2 and 6, starting at 5, press { 2 6 5 } [n] before solving for n. (6) While the solver is running, pressing ON interrupts it *and* places on the stack the upper and lower limits and current guess, in a list as described above. That way, you can interrupt a long SOLVR session to do something else, and then store the list back into the variable and resume solving. (7) Press [right-shift][down-arrow] to see the current equation and the contents of the variables in the menu. (8) Press [EXPR=] to evaluate the left and right sides of the equation. If the equation has no = in it, it is solved as if it ended with =0, but pressing [EXPR=] will return only one value (the value of the whole expression). (9) If you don't like the order of the variables in the menu line, you can arrange them any way you like when storing the equation. Example: To force the variables in 'A+C=B+D' to be displayed in the solver in alphabetical order, don't just store 'A+C=B+D' into EQ, but store this *list* instead: { 'A+C=B+D' { A B C D } }. (10) You can also add one or more customized keys that do whatever you want. For example, The following program sets up and starts the solver with an [EXIT] menu button that exits the solver and cleans up after itself: << { 'A+C=B+D' { A B C D { EXIT << { A B C D EQ } PURGE 2 MENU >> } } } STEQ 30 MENU >> That's a little nicer than pressing CONT (as in the example in my previous posting), and the idea can be extended to add as many keys as you want doing whatever you want, right into the solver. There's even more SOLVR goodies in your manual. Check it out. Hope this helps! -Joe- ==== > I couldn't find any way to get a numeric solution. >> Am I misunderstanding something about that menu 30? Short answer: [left-shift][n] solves for n. More complete answer: Yes, menu 30 acts differently from all other menus. It is optimized for fast >& easy interactive solving of equations. Once you get used to it, you'll >NEVER go back to the input form solver. Menu 30 is the best invention since >tachyons. The non-obvious but essential keystrokes in menu 30 are: To SOLVE for [n], press [left-shift][n]. >To STORE into [n], press [n], unshifted. >To RECALL the value of [n], press [right-shift][n]. That's all you really need, but here are a few other goodies that power >users find very helpful: (1) Use menu 30 directly from the keyboard (not in a program) by pressing >[left-shift][7][ROOT]. Type your equation and press [left-shift][EQ][SOLVR]. >In a program, use STEQ and 30 MENU as described in the previous posting. (2) Pressing any key (other than ON) while the solver is working will force it >to display its progress so that you can watch it converge on the solution. >Besides being cool to watch, it's useful especially in two cases: (a) when the >solver is taking a very long time and you want to know if it's converging or >just spinning its wheels; and (b) when the equation has multiple solutions and >you want to get a feel for where they are without graphing the equation. (3) You can set the solver's initial guess by storing that value into that >variable. Example: To solve for n at an initial guess of 5, press 5 [n] >before solving for n (by pressing [left-shift][n]). (4) You can force the solver to find a solution within a given interval by >storing the interval (as a list) into the variable. Example: To find a >solution for n between 2 and 6, press { 2 6 } [n] before solving for n. Press >any key right away, and you'll see the process begin at 2 and 6. If no >solution is found in that interval, the solver will hunt for one elsewhere. (5) You can combine both of the above by storing a list containing three >values: the interval and the initial guess. Example: To solve for n between 2 >and 6, starting at 5, press { 2 6 5 } [n] before solving for n. (6) While the solver is running, pressing ON interrupts it *and* places on the >stack the upper and lower limits and current guess, in a list as described >above. That way, you can interrupt a long SOLVR session to do something else, >and then store the list back into the variable and resume solving. (7) Press [right-shift][down-arrow] to see the current equation and the >contents of the variables in the menu. (8) Press [EXPR=] to evaluate the left and right sides of the equation. If >the equation has no = in it, it is solved as if it ended with =0, but >pressing [EXPR=] will return only one value (the value of the whole >expression). (9) If you don't like the order of the variables in the menu line, you can >arrange them any way you like when storing the equation. Example: To force >the variables in 'A+C=B+D' to be displayed in the solver in alphabetical >order, don't just store 'A+C=B+D' into EQ, but store this *list* instead: { >'A+C=B+D' { A B C D } }. (10) You can also add one or more customized keys that do whatever you want. >For example, The following program sets up and starts the solver with an >[EXIT] menu button that exits the solver and cleans up after itself: << { 'A+C=B+D' { A B C D { EXIT << { A B C D EQ } PURGE 2 MENU >> } } } STEQ >30 MENU > >That's a little nicer than pressing CONT (as in the example in my previous >posting), and the idea can be extended to add as many keys as you want doing >whatever you want, right into the solver. There's even more SOLVR goodies in your manual. Check it out. Wow! I had no idea. I passed over that in the manual because it seemed to dismiss it as a holdover from the SX. It'll take me awhile to -- john ==== you don't have to use the matrix writer to enter a marix because you can key it in directly if you wish But there is no faster method than the matrix method...just think about it... you are keying in the BARE MINMUM of information.... i.e. the coefficients and constants ==== Speed, the 2nd way you say, when I press Solve i get error:not exact:system what I'm going wrong? I have HP49 cheers Elvis Speed schrieb im Newsbeitrag > The other way to do it is to type the three equations (using equation > writer or the stack) then typing 3 [ROW->] then type the variables > you want to solve for, the 3 [ROW->] then press [SOLVE] from the > [ALG] menu. You don't get to see how the calculator comes up with > it's answers this way though, and it takes longer to type the equations > in. I only very recently learned about this method (from this NG!), > but I will probably only use it if I already have the equations on the > stack. ==== >Speed, the 2nd way you say, when I press Solve i get error:not exact:system >what I'm going wrong? I have HP49 > I don't know, what are the equations you're solving? Which flags do you have set? equations. I tried with two equations with no solution and got { } which means empty set. I tried two equations with infinite solution and got one of the equations as a solution, and Y=Y as the other solution (which is interesting, I was hoping to get a parametric solution). I tried exponential functions and got Error: non-polynomial system. I got the same thing from using sin functions. I guess it only works with polynomial systems. I couldn't get it to generate the error you described. Which ROM are you using? If you don't know, type VERSION into your calculator and hit [ENTER]. --CS ==== I'm creating a program to calculate the Binomial distribution. I'm not very farmiular with SysRPL (Very different to Assembly and C :) I've tried to create an equasion on the stack, duplicate it, evaluate the sum between two points, and then evaluate it at a particular point (hence the dup). If the variable 'X' already exists, it doesn't calculate the sum correctly. Is there a way i can create this equasion, that doesnt' depend on what variables are stored in the filesystem? Here is the code i have atm: xNAME New :: ( Example Variables on the stack, REAL NUMBERS ) %3 %5 %2 %10 %/ CK3 CK&DISPATCH1 real :: ( Local Variable Declerations ) { LAM a LAM N LAM P } BIND ' ID X PURGE ( Purge the variable X ) LAM a ( Not entirely Sure why we put a on the stack ) xALG-> ( or use xALG-> ) LAM a ( Or even why we put a on the stack again ) SYMBOL ( This is our Equasion ) LAM N xFACT SYMBOL ID X ; xFACT LAM N SYMBOL ID X ; x- xFACT x* x/ LAM P SYMBOL ID X ; x^ x* %1 LAM P x- LAM N SYMBOL ID X ; x- x^ x* ; xEVAL ( Evaluate the Equasion if possible ) DUP ( Duplicate it on the stack ) * ' ID X ( Put the ID name 'X' on the stack ) SYMBOL ID X ; SWAP SWAP LAM a %1 x- ( to a-1) SWAP xSUM ( Find the sum from 0 to a - 1 of x in the equasion ) { LAM lt } BIND ( Store less than Value into local variable lt ) LAM a ( Put a on the stack ) ' ID X * SYMBOL * ID X * ; STO ( Store the value of a into X ) xEVAL ( Were evaluating the distribution at X=a ) { LAM eq } BIND ( Store X=a Value into 'eq' ) ( The print out of our results ) B(X< LAM a x+ )= x+ LAM lt x+ B(X<= LAM a x+ )= x+ LAM lt LAM eq x+ x+ B(X= LAM a x+ )= x+ LAM eq x+ B(X>= LAM a x+ )= x+ %1 LAM lt x- x+ B(X> LAM a x+ )= x+ %1 LAM lt x- LAM eq x- x+ ABND ( Abandon eq ) ABND ( Abandon lt ) ABND ( Abandon a N P ) ; ( End of real ) ; ==== Can we install a software or a program written for 48 to 49 or vice versa ? (ex: an engineering program) ==== ac206886.0303171555.21a268d9@posting.google.com, kham le > Can we install a software or a program written for 48 to 49 or vice versa ? > (ex: an engineering program) If it's a UserRPL program and you're sending it using ASCII kermit, then transferring the HP48 program to the HP49 will be okay. Make sure your HP49 in approximate mode first. The other way around, as the HP49 as UserRPL keywords that don't exist in the HP48 is more troublesome ==== I was hoping to use the flag 1-5 annunciators on the display as an animated progress indicator. Each time a solution was found by the program, the current flag would be turned off and the next one turned on, with wraparound from 5 to 1. Well, the program does the right things with the flags but nothing is displayed while the program runs. When the program ends, one of the annunciators does come on, as expected, but a little too late to be useful. Am I doing something wrong here? Is this possible? If not, is there some other simple way to show that the program is making progress? (I did also use a message box to display results every now and then, but I'd rather have something that does not stop the program and thus require me to start it up again.) - Michael -- Remove No Spam Please from return address. ==== >I was hoping to use the flag 1-5 annunciators on the display as an animated >progress indicator. Each time a solution was found by the program, the >current flag would be turned off and the next one turned on, with wraparound >from 5 to 1. Well, the program does the right things with the flags but nothing is >displayed while the program runs. When the program ends, one of the >annunciators does come on, as expected, but a little too late to be useful. The stack display is only updated when your program ends and control returns to the System Outer Loop (SOL). When the SOL regains control, it calls SysDisplay which in turn calls DispStatus. DispStatus takes the current system state into account and updates the status line accordingly. So, in order for the flag annunciators to be displayed/updated, you would need to call DispStatus every time you change the state of the flags. This can be accomplished by a #395BA SYSEVAL for the 48 or a #2C305 SYSEVAL for the 49. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== > I was hoping to use the flag 1-5 annunciators on the display as an animated > progress indicator. Each time a solution was found by the program, the > current flag would be turned off and the next one turned on, with wraparound > from 5 to 1. > > Well, the program does the right things with the flags but nothing is > displayed while the program runs. When the program ends, one of the > annunciators does come on, as expected, but a little too late to be useful. > > Am I doing something wrong here? Is this possible? If not, is there some > other simple way to show that the program is making progress? (I did also > use a message box to display results every now and then, but I'd rather have > something that does not stop the program and thus require me to start it up > again.) As should be apparent from your experience, the flag annunciators are only updated when the stack display is updated. If you want some indication of your program's progress, a fairly easy and efficient way to do it is to do 1 DISP every so often. -- Steve VanDevender I ride the big iron http://jcomm.uoregon.edu/~stevev Little things break, circuitry burns / Time flies while my little world turns Every day comes, every day goes / 100 years and nobody shows -- Happy Rhodes ==== Some might prefer the classical 4-level RPN stack to the 48/49 style stack. Or there might be some favorite programs that you don't feel like porting. I personally prefer the classical 4-level stack. Monte > I looked at that link. I had never heard of a caclulator emulator for > a calculator. I dont want to be one of the disrespectful individuals and wannabe > programmers that he is talking about, but I have a question. Why? I thought that the only advantage of the old calculators was the > hardware(pocket size with nice keys). There must be something that I > have not thougth of. What happened to Hrastprogrammer !!?? He seems very upset indeed, and has deleted from the web any info > or details on his wonderful HP-41X, HP-42X and HP-71X emulators for the > HP-48GX/49G !!!, just see this link: http://hrastprogrammer.tripod.com/ Can someone (hrastprogrammer ?) shed some light on just what happened ? > Perhaps it would be useful to know, just in case ... ==== I expect to start finding bugs this week. :-) > a Saturday night.... now that is what I call proper service. 9s & 9g from Samson Cables: $61.90 ($11.95 + $49.95) 9s & 9g from CalcPro: $49.90 ($14.95 + $34.95) For 5 cents less than a 9g at Samson Cables, you get a 9g and a 9s at CalcPro. HPCC #1046 ==== Welll I am glad they are still in business I bought a cable from them in 2001 and had no trouble then ==== I was wanting to be able to connect my hp48 to a hp49 and to the computer. Would the hp49 cable be able to do this? I see no reason to buy the hp48 cable if the hp49 cable works on both the 49 and 48 and they cost the same amount. ==== > I was wanting to be able to connect my hp48 to a hp49 and > to the computer. Would the hp49 cable be able to do this? Probably; the cable that comes with the HP49G is designed to work with the 48 and 49 (via a 4-to-10 adapter). To be sure, compare the HP part numbers on your cable and on your 4-to-10 adapter to the HP part numbers on the Cable Table: http://holyjoe.net/hp/cable.htm -Joe- ==== I purchased a hp48gx to add to my collection. Now I have a ti-89, hp49, and hp48gx. I need erable and algebra48. What other programs do I want? I am not sure what metakernal does but it appears to be a big and popular progam. I would rather buy the 128kb if that is all the memory that I will need. ==== If you want much of the functionality of the HP49 in your HP48 then buy a 128KB RAM card, plug it in the first slot and install the MK. That would upgrade your OS to something decent and faster. Then buy a 1MB RAM card plug it in the second slot and install Alg48 & Erable. That would add a CAS that would be comparable in some aspects to that of the the HP49 with quite a few exceptions. You know what your needs are, so act accordingly. ==== Check out the Klotz RAM cards at http://www.uuhome.de/oklotz/index_e.html I just bought 2 from him today... so I havent received them as yet... but many folks in here use them and they are a good price ==== Could I fit all of that on 2 128kb cards? That would be 384kb. I dont think that I would ever uses up 1mb+128kb+128kb so I would feel wastefull. ==== chris heaton meinte >Could I fit all of that on 2 128kb cards? That would be 384kb. I dont >think that I would ever uses up 1mb+128kb+128kb so I would feel >wastefull. You should not think that limited. 128KB for slot 1 is a technical restriction you can't avoid. For the second slot the decision should be based on cost effectiveness. If you accept the proposal to buy at Klotz, an alternative could be CYNOX, you'll find out that a 2MB card is comparable _much_ cheaper than a 128KB card. That is about 40$ versus 110$ for 16 times storage capability. or two MB in slot 2 give you the flexibilty for intelligible backup strategies, lots of libraries you currently even dont think of, etc... Summary: buy one 128KB card. If you buy a second card don't waste your money with another 128KB card, go at least for a 1 MB card, perhaps even better a 2 MB card. Gru¤ G.9fnter Schink, Slot 1 128 filled with MK, Slot 2 populated :-) with Organizer, Scribe, ALG48, Sokoban, Tetris, Pac Man, plotting programs etc.... ==== BAH! Sell (or better keep it if you can afford that) your HP 48 and buy a HP 49G !! + 128KB RAM merged in for a total of 256KB RAM + 256KB IRAM port 1 (automatically handled 2*128KB) + 1MB FlashRAM port 2 (autohandled 8*128KB, needs no battery!) Upgradeable OS double sized from 512KB to 1MB to include (no need for 128KB memory module in port 1) + Erable49 & ALG49 totally integrated (no need for using a 128KB slot in a 1MB RAM card) + much more.. (like: CAS-Help; Catalog of commands; (shift&hold keylevels; EQW enhanced Matrix Writer,...) * The cursor keys are now usable in the Alpha mode, too!!! The HP 49G gives you the best value for every euro you pay for it. > chris heaton meinte Could I fit all of that on 2 128kb cards? That would be 384kb. I dont >think that I would ever uses up 1mb+128kb+128kb so I would feel >wastefull. You should not think that limited. 128KB for slot 1 is a technical > restriction you can't avoid. For the second slot the decision should > be based on cost effectiveness. If you accept the proposal to buy at > Klotz, an alternative could be CYNOX, you'll find out that a 2MB > card is comparable _much_ cheaper than a 128KB card. That is about 40$ > versus 110$ for 16 times storage capability. or two MB in slot 2 give you the flexibilty for intelligible backup > strategies, lots of libraries you currently even dont think of, etc... Summary: buy one 128KB card. If you buy a second card don't waste your > money with another 128KB card, go at least for a 1 MB card, perhaps > even better a 2 MB card. Gru¤ G.9fnter Schink, Slot 1 128 filled with MK, Slot 2 populated :-) > with Organizer, Scribe, ALG48, Sokoban, Tetris, Pac Man, plotting > programs etc.... ==== > I have finished my game Dope Wars, which is the adaptation of the PC > game with the same name. Include a full manual (french & english > versions), enjoy! You can donwload it on my website: httt://www.noda.online.fr HP48&49 versions will follow soon... Can't wait for 49 version... ==== Thx for your games!! Shidov ==== HP 39/40 has more plottypes and I usually use 40G for plotting and 49G for CAS operations and 48GX for my own symbolic UserRPL functions, especially for step/step evaluation!!! AND naturally the 48G EQW for unit operations. The HP 49G is missing a lot of functionality but don't worry, soon the kast empty nibble is filled with French warning/Erorr messages instead of useful plot types or units in the EQW Have a happy French plotting day from Cyrille - HPmad (Wolwerine), Gerald - Warlock (Beast) Bernard - ... (Professor Xavier, the telepathic mutant) *************************************************************' You cannot fool me. When I got the 49, it was apparent to me that all the CAS functions could not fit in that case. Therefore, I knew the 49G did not in fact contain a processor and ROM. Instead, it had a radio transmitter which sent telephatic wawes to Professor who then calculates the functions in his head and telesends them right back. ************************************************************* + Mika (Iceman) Claude-Nicolas (Archangel) Ray (Cable) Mark (Gambit) Tanja (Rogue - the last thing she kissed was the HP 49G) (now she lives there - inside - forever, if you don't believe me) (Press [ON]&[F4] then [COS] and take a look!!) (-; Veli-Pekka = Night-Crawler (disappears sometimes) Thor=Bernard P (you will be hammered down, Nick) Captain America=John K H Hawkseye=Jonathan B And a totally incompatible, one and only : Nick = Hulk (tri Bruce kargaglou#ó/&%) (he changed his name to Banner, a whole lot earsier) (and don't forget =Blade) There were a lot of others, but since I make a lot of mistakes I let tri Nick Banner (if he can hold he's peace) to name the rest. Also persons themselves may make suggestions, like ==== > Why would some non engineer, scientist , or numbers geek be interested in > rpn, the large stacks of storable values, or integral approximation?? > > > They're not. What they're interested in is why *we* are and why we > spend so much time tapping at the little box. Very difficult to > explain. Sometimes I think it's best to tell them it's the latest > Gameboy and let it go at that. > > Bill My wife says that I love my calculator more than I love her. I'm not going to say that she's right, but . . . I don't know . . . the calculator complains a lot, but it is fully customizable. --CS ==== people for a lot of time. Is nice to see how most of the people is still here, but it's pretty sad that WR will possibly leave in a short time. Well, let's get down to business. I'm just wondering if any of you in here can improve this piece of SysRPL code. I think I may be overlooking some command. The idea is to accept just a list of numbers in real format, not as integers. If an integer is on the list, it has to be converted to real and return the modified list. If the list contains any non-number object, the program must return the original list. Then the list is used by another program. The program I have right now is fast, but not as fast as I would like it to be, because I'm gonna feed it with a list of 100 or more numbers. Right now it takes close to a second to process a list of 120 integers (I'm testing with integers, because it takes more time to process this kind of object). This is what I have right now: xNAME JustNumbers :: CK1&Dispatch list :: ZERO (Size of the list) TRUE (List is initially accepted) { NULLLAM NULLLAM } BIND DUP INNERCOMP DUP 2PUTLAM ZERO DO :: DUPTYPEREAL? case :: 2GETLAM UNROLL ; DUPTYPEZINT? case :: FLASHPTR Z>R 2GETLAM UNROLL ; FALSE 1PUTLAM ISTOP@ INDEXSTO ; LOOP 1GETLAM case :: 2GETLAM {}N SWAPDROP CHART-IT (Would be the next program) ABND ; Only numbers allowed ROMPTR xMSGBOX 2GETLAM NDROP ABND ; ; So, how can I make this faster? Please, without getting into ASM, because I barely remember the basics of it that I learned a while ago. -- Beto ==== > The idea is to accept just a list of numbers in real format, not as > integers. If an integer is on the list, it has to be converted to real > and return the modified list. If the list contains any non-number > object, the program must return the original list. the simplest and fastest solution to your problem is the program :: CK1&Dispatch BINT1 NOP : That converts a list containing only reals and zints (if it is this what you mean by integers) into a list of reals. Additional advantage: each single zint is converted into a real as well. Normally, the command CK1&Dispatch is allowed only to be the first pointer in a library command. But JB explained to as a couple of days before that occasionally it works also outside a library. In this case it does, though the error message for a list containg besides reals or zints also something else will look somewhat weird. I forgot the name of the thread but you'll readily find it :-) - Wolfgang ==== > Is there an easier way to get the angle part of a two dimensional >> vector? < swap / atan> Try ARG. Use ABS to get the magnitude. Bill alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) ==== > > Is there an easier way to get the angle part of a two dimensional > vector? > > < swap / atan>> The above gives an angle in the range of -pi/2 to pi/2, or gives an error for vectors parallel to [0,1]. << V-> R->C ARG >> gives the angle with a range of -pi to pi, and gives 0. for the zero vector ==== V-> is all that you need, to deliver both magnitude and angle (possibly preceded by CYLIN or SPHERE, if you hadn't already set a polar coodinate display mode). Other suggestions (starting with V-> and then doing other stuff) seem to have been made under the assumption (or requirement) that the calc must first be set to RECT[angular] coordinate display mode (which it wasn't, according to the original question), because V-> is a *flag-dependent* command, giving different results in different display modes (flags -15 and -16). Again: V-> is *not* equivalent to ARRY-> DROP (nor to C->R with a complex argument instead of a vector) It gives the same results if the last-set coordinate display mode was RECT, but different results (converted coordinates) when the SIZE of the vector is 2 or 3, and the last-set coordinate display mode was CYLIN or SPHERE. Likewise: ->V2 is not equivalent to 2 ->ARRY (nor to R->C if flag -19 is set) ->V3 is not equivalent to 3 ->ARRY In CYLIN or SPHERE coordinate display modes, these commands all *automatically*convert* the coordinates! Summary: This special family of commands: V->, ->V2 and ->V3 (in the MTH VECTR menu on HP48 and HP49) are all intended to perform *automatic*coordinate*transformation* between the fixed internal rectangular object format and whichever of three coordinate display modes (RECT, CYLIN or SPHERE) is currently in effect; they are thus a kind of extension and generalization of older R->P and P->R commands, if you like, adapted to the object-orientation of the HP48/49 series calcs. In addition, V-> treats complex numbers the same as 2D vectors, and ->V2 looks at flag -19 to decide which object type to produce (vector or complex number), so there are three flags which affect the general behavior of these commands, and only in a mini- challenge is it safe to assume what state those flags are in :) I post this as a public service, in case anyone at NASA is embedding any HP48/49 calcs as critical navigation components in any more Mars-bound missions :) [r->] [OFF] . ==== introduced when the ROM was full and the 64KB lone port had to be sacrificed for the larger OS, but no for the user FlashRAM. 1) Save port contents 2) directly download a port 3) reboot WR> but had some problems with loading extable2. This lib has > WR> 110,308.5 bytes (CRC 1F24). In order to save time, I normally load > WR> files above 5 KB with the HP49G Connectivity kit via XMODEM. I know it is a big library, but I had no problems downloading it with > possible to load a library that big. - Carsten > ==== > > It was a joke synonomate, Heh, I know :) > BUT Oh, regarding the RPN smiley, I suppose other people have thought of it before me, but I used it some time ago when enclosing extremely hilarious (or just ridiculous) sentenced in Pascal-like comments. Then the asterisc turned into a colon. > I really think that the people who read this NG > are not monoxnwtoi, that is, they don t care ONLY > for their Calcs, but they are interested in knowledge > in general. Should I be wrong with this, then I d > better stop reading this NG, since I am a supporter > of the olistikis theorisis of life. I think this has been proven more than once, if not from anything else, then from the fact that people from, say, Civil Enginnering :) or whatnot enjoy HPcalc programming. > Besides, sometimes the situation here in Greece makes > we (Greeks) have left :-( > What s wrong with sharing these memories > with a few million people :-) There's no `we'. There's `us', the thinking heads, and `them', the talking heads (the neo-Greeks), that carry the same psychology with a middle-class American (as displayed on B-movies) or, for that matter, a middle-class * . (: Alexandros Homo Universalis Andreou :) -- Alexandros Andreou, ee4299 at ee.teiath.gr. Undergraduate student, Department of Electronics, TEI of Athens. Life's not a bitch; she's a BOFH. ==== 48GX: LIBS command will get you a lst of all libraries in your calculator together with their id and port number With this information you should be able to proceed, in your case: :0:libid PURGE > I have installed a few programs on my 48GX that use the library function and > I now would like to remove them because they are using up needed memory. I > have read chapter 28 of the manual and find it difficult to follow when it > describes the procedure for purging a library from memory. The part I find > most confusing is where it says Enter the library identifier for the > library in independent memory- it has the form : port : number. When do I > enter this, how do I enter it, how do I find the number to use? Can > someone please clarify exactly what this means or give me some brief > directions on purging a library? By the way, I am using port 0. ==== a way to get rid of the dust is to push the display-cover out. put a jewelery screw driver (or anything small) through the serial port in an angle (look first! to get a straight shot) and push the display. it has a little of jelly glue. don't worry. it goes back tight (it won't get loose) after you put it back. ==== card and no manual. Where can I get a manual? How do I install the card? ==== Note: in the back of your HP 48GX it reads ( 1 ) 32K/128K ONLY ( 2 ) Just plug it in to port 2 and start using. You will have ports 2 and 3 .87 128KB ready. > card and no manual. Where can I get a manual? How do I install the > card? ==== > << OVER SIZE NDUPN ->LIST > > I'm sure than Joe can beat the speeed. > > We will see... he he he heeeee (sinister laugh) ;-) > You win! :-) > -Joe- > Absolutely! > Why are you RPN folks still using the Algebraic smileys?? Good question! possible? How? ==== > 'f(x)=10^(2.55-.15*X)' > I want a straight line on my HP, if itÇs possible... Just leave out the 10^ from your equation; this effectvely takes the logarithm of the right-hand side (although you might also want some constant multiplier). You can't, however, get the axes *labeled* (or trace values displayed) with logarithmic tic marks or other non-linear scales, for this calc's simplified FUNCTION plot type takes responsibility only to draw the graph, not to draw the graph paper :) Note, however, that when you trace a PARAMETRIC plot (where you specify both horizontal and vertical linear coordinates in terms of an independent parameter), the value of the independent parameter is displayed, along with the generated horizontal and vertical linear coordinates, which may provide some slight assistance. [r->] [OFF] . ==== I have lost my user manual for my hp48gx. Can anybody tell me if there is any user manual available online. -- ==== http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3937 BUTÇ it is a *HUGE* PDF file. > I have lost my user manual for my hp48gx. Can anybody tell me if there is > any user manual available online. > -- ==== thanks for the quick response. yes, it is huge but i'am new in using hp 48gx and a manual is great in the begining. thanks again. cheers Zeja Setrallah Veli-Pekka Nousiainen skrev i en meddelelse > http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3937 > BUTÇ > it is a *HUGE* PDF file. > I have lost my user manual for my hp48gx. Can anybody tell me if there is > any user manual available online. > -- ==== I use kermit 7.0 and I can't get back file from PC. ==== > I use kermit 7.0 and I can't get back file from PC. Don't use kermit, use xmodem : send/recv from hp39/40 on the calc, sx/rx on linux (available in package lrzsz). It is much simpler, faster, and works nicely in both directions. And don't post twice :) -- Samuel Thibault ==== > I can send file for calc to PC > but I can't get them back... > > I have seen no way to put the hp40g in sever mode in the doc. > > thanks for help. On the linux box put kermit in server mode. Then on the HP40/39 simply select SEND in the aplet then choose DISK DRIVE -- Remove the obvious ==== Another interesting task would be to pick up the n-th digit of long > integers as the above discussed. > > This comes with simple arithmetic. EVAL the following, where X is the bignum and > N is the place of the digit, starting from 1 for the monads: > 3: X > 2: N > 1: << 1 - 10 SWAP ^ / FLOOR 10 / 1 MOD 10 * >> MOD does not work for integers, it accepts real numbers (at least on my 40G). Hence, large integers will be filled up with zeros and you get 0 as remainder. However: FLOOR(x/10^(n-1)) - FLOOR(x/10^n)*10 works fine (n defined as above: n-th digit from the right side of the number) Axel ==== zaurus is a PDA that came out in 2002. it is made by sharp co. http://www.myzaurus.com/ X But is there not a true VGA Zaurus with a small keyboard? Do you know the dimensions and weight (How many Euros?) I think I may by one - unless HP truly makes a superfast calc. ==== I have a Klotz 128kb memory-card in port 1 and a 2Mb card in port 2 of my HP 48gx. I have just installed MetaKernal 2.3 (using up the majority of port 1) and I would like to add Erable also. My question: There seem to be a few different versions of Erable floating around and each package contains 4 different flavors (Erable.lib, erable0.lib, erablemk.lib, erable1.lib): for my configuration, and assuming I want to install in port 2, what is the best/correct choice? Which libraries do I install? and in what order should I install those libraries? _____________________________________ Timothy E Roche ==== i am desperately trying to find some games for HP49G for two players on two calculators, over wire port of course, but i'm not having much luck.. best i could find was tetris that compares results at the end of the game. do you have any recommendations? (i looked all over hpcalc.org..) -- design: http://www.dna-collective.tk/ urban: http://www.assault.tk/ ==== There is a very good version of tetris on many sites that works on the 38/39, im sure it was converted from the 48/49. It has real time communication between the two calcs (ie get a double and the opponent gets one ect) find it under the games section in the HP38 on hpcalc.org, tetris he'll oblige. M@ > i am desperately trying to find some games for HP49G for two players > on two calculators, over wire port of course, but i'm not having much > luck.. best i could find was tetris that compares results at the end > of the game. do you have any recommendations? (i looked all over hpcalc.org..) -- > design: http://www.dna-collective.tk/ > urban: http://www.assault.tk/ ==== > i am desperately trying to find some games for HP49G for two players > on two calculators, over wire port of course, but i'm not having much > luck.. best i could find was tetris that compares results at the end > of the game. There is a game called Tetri on hpcalc.org which I'm forced to play with my daugther very often on two HP49 because she likes it so much. No wire connection is necessary. Tetri can be played under precisely the same conditions on both calcs, that is, the initial random dice distribution is exactly the same in the first 6 lines if starting in level 6, say. Clearly, both games must have the same seed for the random sequence. There is a button Seed in the menu where you both have to store the same number in, 123 for instance. The games need not run synchroneously since your partner may prefer a lower dropping speed. And both of you can just repeat the same game if you've discovered an interesting seed. The most fascinating but most difficult variant is to start at level 10. The Top Scrore cannot be manipulataed (unless you are an experienced hacker). What you are competing in when playing Tetri is not growing dropping speed (Windows and gameboy tetris which I consider to be annoying) but geometrical skillness in directing the figures to the right place. Since you both have got the same start conditions, you compete with eachother solely in your geometrical phantasy, and that is really fascinating. - Wolfgang ==== Can anyone describe a decoding method for serial numbers on all HP48 machines? I have a number of them I'd like to 'decode'. Details of changes in manufacturing site, keyboard design (i.e. paint vs double injected) would Tom ==== Im looking for a decompiler for objects/aplets on the 38G M@ ==== > You could edit a basic DEFined function to include more variables... > F1=X^2 > DEF > F1(X)=X^2 > EDIT > F1(X,Y,Z)=X^2+2*Y-LN(Z) but I found no way to edit a DEFined function on the 40G: > If you go into edit mode (VARS -> EDIT) you get your function as a > UserRPL-program (!). Even if you don't edit the formula you get an > Invalid Syntax error after quitting with OK. &%ó&/(%#%/ó& I thought it could work also with the 40G Can't help you more... > Maybe JYA could comment here?! Now you address The Man Who Knows :-D ==== > In CAS mode, I could not manage to define a function of more than one > variable using the DEF command. A little tricky, but it can be done: Suppose you want to define the function V(X,Y,Z)=X*Y*Z. Type in V, up arrow, [TOOL] softkey, choose Edit expr., and type in V(X,Y,Z) (the 'V' is already displayed), press [OK] or ENTER, SHIFT =, and enter the right side of the equation: X*Y*Z, select all with SHIFT Up, press the softkey [ALGB], choose the DEF command and finally ENTER. Now the user defined function V has just been created. To evaluate it at, say, (1,2,3): ALPHA V, up arrow, [TOOL], Edit expr., enter V(1,2,3) and ENTER again. Just remember that the expression you have to edit separately is the whole function V(X,Y,Z) - not just X,Y,Z. HPCC #1046 ==== I was wondering if there was a quick way to completely erase the memory contents of my 48GX through the use of key commands or menus (i.e. not using the reset button located under the rubber footing) I know this can be done on a TI-83 and I was wondering if there is a similar method for the 48GX? -Adrian ==== have you tried ON+A+F ? Raymond Adrian de Montbrun schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I was wondering if there was a quick way to completely erase the memory > contents of my 48GX through the use of key commands or menus (i.e. not using > the reset button located under the rubber footing) I know this can be done > on a TI-83 and I was wondering if there is a similar method for the 48GX? > -Adrian ==== > I am now completely conviced that you are seriously twisted! :-) Yes, by 90 degrees. -- Alexandros Andreou, ee4299 at ee.teiath.gr. Undergraduate student, Department of Electronics, TEI of Athens. ==== > Nobody noticed the embarrassing error, which (of *course*) I didn't > notice until after. I had copied the constant out of a book without > checking, and it's slightly wrong. It should be the reciprocal of the > log of the 12th root of 2, or 3986.31369011. Hope nobody tuned their > church organ to the other number! Oops, you did it again :) . 2 12 XROOT LOG INV 39.8631371382 -- Alexandros Andreou, ee4299 at ee.teiath.gr. Undergraduate student, Department of Electronics, TEI of Athens. ==== > You mean something a bit like The International Obfuscated C Code > Contest but for RPL? RPL is already obfuscated :) . And it would be better if it was specifically for UserRPL (preferably without SYSEVALs getting in the way). At least for me :) . -- Alexandros Andreou, ee4299 at ee.teiath.gr. Undergraduate student, Department of Electronics, TEI of Athens. ==== Does anyone know how to contact Steve Dunham, or has anyone managed to run tell me how to compile unthread.c thanxs, M@ ==== Can anyone tell me what this site is? Checck mit out. http://www.educalc.net/ Harold A. Climer Physics/Astronomy Lab Instructor U. Tennessee At Chattanooga ==== I've just purchased a copy of 'Graphics on the HP48G/GX' (by R.Ray Depew )and would like to use some of the code (and not have to key/type it in). Is the source code available on line or at some cost? Tom ==== > In the Alg48 manual, I found a set of commands which helps solving > systems of nonlinear polynomial equations (using the Buchberger > algorithm). > > Is there any equivalent in the HP49/40 CAS? Yes, there is.. Same commands as Alg48 ==== > > > In the Alg48 manual, I found a set of commands which helps solving > systems of nonlinear polynomial equations (using the Buchberger > algorithm). > > Is there any equivalent in the HP49/40 CAS? > > Yes, there is.. > Same commands as Alg48 I tried all the Groebner commands on my 40g - none of them seems to work. Axel ==== >> engineering school). By the way, why are telephone keyboards using a >> different layout than caculators ? > > Because phones are not RPN? (First talk, then call.) ;-) So, cell phones *ARE* RPN. << 6974111600 CALL >> -- Alexandros Andreou, ee4299 at ee.teiath.gr. Undergraduate student, Department of Electronics, TEI of Athens. ==== of course hpcalc.org is THE place where you will find everuthing for first step see this document: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1691 I hoe this helps! ==== I can send file for calc to PC but I can't get them back... I have seen no way to put the hp40g in sever mode in the doc. thanks for help. ==== > Could anyone tell me where to buy/download HP 48g/gx Advanced User's > Guide. I have serched hpcalc.org and other links but found none. dowload the hp49 AUR at http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=2998 the only thing useful is 72 pages of the Command reference guide it works for the 48 too. I have spend mauch time to find where to free download the 48's AUR, without succes, so if you want this you have to paid/buy for it; consult at your local hp dealer. ==== > > << > 5 > 1 10 > START > SQ > DUP > NEXT > DROP > > > This uses fewer bytes and takes less than half as much time. more byteless: replace 10 with 1 ALOG and by the way if you really want to use localc variables, the STO command, eg.: -> local << ... new value 'local' STO... >> will work too, just as global variables. ==== > << 5 1 10 START SQ DUP NEXT DROP > This uses fewer bytes and takes less than half as much time. > more byteless: replace 10 with 1 ALOG it should said perhaps that the number of local variables in a UsrRPL program should always as small as possible whenever one wants something to be more fast. That makes also compilation faster, not only the run. Indstead of using 1 ALOG for 10, one can also use the supported command %10 (no space between % and 10). Similarly, %11 for 11. up to 27. Also these and several other reals are living in ROM and need only 2.5 bytes instead of 10.5. The only problem: How to put these ROM-reals which are normally unknown to UsrRPL into a UsrRPL program? I'll discus this and related questions of byte-reduction and speeding up UsrRPL this way on the base of the HP49 where it is somewhat more straight-forward. There are several methods. I will scetch only the easiest one (not the one with SYSEVAL because this method will cost only additional bytes). On the 49, one additional tool is needed, a library called extable, available on hpcalc.org. It should be stored in Port2. You'll need it anyway if you are interested in knowing what is hidden behind UsrRPL, what may be slow, what is fast, how are compiled local variables, etc. OK, load also a more powerful filer, called Filer2. It is contained in Filer1+2 from hpcalc.org. Now suppose the program << 10. 'ten' ST0 >> has the name 'STO10' in HOME. The program has 34.5 bytes which is the sum of 5 bytes for the UsrRPL programm delimiters, 10.5 bytes for the real 10., 6.5 bytes for the unquoted name ten, 5 bytes for quoting, 2.5 bytes for the command STO, plus another 5 bytes for SysRPL program delimiters unvisible at user level. Set also flag -92 (which should permanently be set as long as you don't program in machine language). To get the 2.5 bytes %10 into the program STO10, start Filer2 and edit STO10 with rightshift EDIDB from the menu. This is a SysRPL editor. You see then the following somewhat unusual in the display: :: x<< % 10. x' ID ten xENDTIC xSTO x>> ; But don't be afraid. This is just the decompilation of the program in STO10 and an exact image of the way our UsrRPL program has been compiled by the builtin compiler on ENTER. The prefix x in the command names just informs on that all commands are UsrRPL commands. Now, with the cursor, erase the point after 10 and the space between % and 10, so that you see %10 only. Press ENTER and leave the filer. Next call the new program in STO10 to the stack. Voil.87, it has 26.5 bytes only, although it looks exactly as the original program. Thus, already 8 bytes gained. Now, if you are interested to farther reducing the program size and in speedup, there are still a lot of possibilites. You can trustfully erase the delimiters x<< and x>>, and also the xENDTIC because these three all denote a little SysRPL-program called CK0ATTNABORT. This one just checks whether the CANCEL key has been pressed during the program's run and if yes, aborts. But this is very unlikely because STO10 is too fast to be interrupted with CANCEL. Thus, after erasing all dispensable accessories remains the equivalent program :: %10 x' ID ten xSTO ; of only 19 bytes compared with the original 34.5 bytes. It does the same but is much faster. It displays in normal stack view as 10. ' ten STO and hence is still completely readable. The name ten is quoted with a single quoter which has a lot of other advantages. The only disadvantage with the new small and fast program in STO10 (which I called an Extended UsrRPL program at various occasions) is that it cannot anymore edited with the normal UsrRPL editor and recompiled with the builtin compiler. But you can re-edit it any time with the SysRPL editor in Filer2. Thus, this nice improvement has to be payed with a small handicap. But I think that the profit in speed and size counts here much more. - Wolfgang ==== try at KLOTZ: http://www.uuhome.de/oklotz/ ==== Helle Carsten, thank you very much - this was exactly what I meant with short and brilliant. Peter -- Peter Brown > > PB> is there any brilliant and short way to get the character printed on a > PB> key from the key code, for example M from 41.1. Things were easy on > PB> the 48GX where only the Enter-key disturbed a small formula. > > > You don't say which programming language. In SystemRPL: > > :: > Ck&DecKeyLoc (decode to SystemRPL key representation) > DROP FOUR (make sure the key plane is 4, i.e. ALPHA) > Key>StdKeyOb (extract the key object assigned to this key) > CHR>$ (convert the character to a string) > ; > > - Carsten ==== I'd just like to add that, while most keys have a character assigned on plane four, not all do. For example, 103.4 is a program which checks if comma or dot is the decimal separator and then inserts the corresponding character. Therefore, the program I gave maybe a bit dangerous. You might want to check if the result of Key>StdKeyOb is indeed a character before converting it to a string. - Carsten PB> Helle Carsten, PB> thank you very much - this was exactly what I meant with short and brilliant. >> :: >> Ck&DecKeyLoc (decode to SystemRPL key representation) >> DROP FOUR (make sure the key plane is 4, i.e. ALPHA) >> Key>StdKeyOb (extract the key object assigned to this key) >> CHR>>$ (convert the character to a string) >> ; >> >> - Carsten ==== X > Therefore, the program I gave maybe a bit > dangerous. You might want to check if the result of Key>StdKeyOb is > indeed a character before converting it to a string. X AND the rewised program (with comments for SysRPL newbies) is ??? ==== I was just thinking that the poor documentation of the HP49 probably means that a lot of new users don't know about DBUG. It's a handy tool for looking into programming that doesn't work, or for checking stack syntax as you go. All this also applies to the HP48. It's in LS-PRG-NXT-NXT-RUN (HP49) or PRG-NXT-RUN (HP48). If you use it a lot, you could also assign << 41.1 MENU >> to a key. The commands are: DBUG: start the debugging. SST: single-step through a program. If the program calls another, it's executed without stepping through it. SST-downarrow: single-step through a program, and also through another program called by the first. NEXT: see the next command in the program - it isn't executed until the next SST. HALT: If you press it during debugging, HALT appears on the command line. Enter will suspend debugging so you can do something else (to return, press LS-CONT), or Cancel will put you back into debugging. You can also use it to insert the word anywhere in a program. KILL: abandons debugging and turns off the Halt annunciator. To use it: 1. If the program requires any arguments, they should be on the stack. 2. Quote the program name to stack level one (eg, 'myprog'). It will also work with the entire program on level one. 3. Press DBUG. 4. To single-step, press SST, SST-downarrow, or NEXT. If you find the error or just want to exit, press KILL (or LS-CONT). Note that you can't single-step through an IFERR statement unless you put a HALT after IFERR. Using HALT in programs: if you can't find the error in a program, you can insert as many HALTs as you want. During execution, the program will stop at each halt and the HLT annunciator will come on. Press LS-CONT to continue. I'm sure somebody can add more to this. Hope this is useful, Bill ==== > So, I got curious. Are the memory chips of the 49G affected by the > momentary magnetic field generated by the de-gauss circuitry? I'd think the electromagnetic pulse from a degausser would cause some large transients in the calculator circuitry. I have no idea if they'd cause any interruption. Lemme just check here... OK, my monitor made a big thump at the screen edge when I cycled the power, indicated a fairly large degaussing pulse. I held the HP49 against the side of the monitor with a program running, and nothing happened. So I guess the short, unscientific answer is that it doesn't cause much harm. > (Oh, and does anyone have any schematics on how to build a de-gauss > circuit?) I don't have the schematics any more, but many years ago I was in on the design of one. It's just a matter of dumping a large charged capacitor into a coil. That's an LCR circuit, of course, and produces a decaying sine wave, which is what does the demagnetizing. IIRC, the parameters are not critical. The coil is usually shaped to suit the application - in the case of a monitor, just some turns around the tube. Think of this: in WWII when the Germans introduced magnetic-detector anti-ship mines, the Allies countered by put degaussing coils around entire ships and demagging the hull. Now THAT'S a degausser! Bill ==== I had worked for some time in a magnetic measurement lab and it happened that the desk was just in the axis of 5 Tesla (well as far as I remember) coils. When turning the power in the magnet, on the computer screen the image turned by about 45 degrees before getting back to normal. My HP48 was there and nothing ever happened. Arnaud ==== Could we please have an English translation of these? It's all Greek to me... ;-) > > Geia sou! Ayjanesuai kai plyuhnesuai, kai katakyrieysate ton kosmon. > Re tvra jerv TESSERIS (me ton NK PENTE!) xrhstes HPcalc sthn Ellada! > (Me emena EJI!). Geia! Tora mporoume na kanoume kai fan club :-) > I recently bought a 32SII and I must admit... > You have a general number for the price? (Sto peripoy.) To 32SII eixe peripou 85 Euros otan to phra ego, alla > apo tote den xero an exei allaksei h timh tou, an vevaia > exoun apomeinei alla 32SII's. To 20S tha einai sigoura > apanthsoun poly syntoma. > This goes to all the Greek HP fans out there! > Keep it down! Don't let them hear you! :) Kala! Kala! Sorry! ;-) Alex Markatis > Civil Engineer > GREECE ==== Yeah ... or that they at last got rid of the last RPN stuff in their inventory and now can at last concentrate on the super-smart, super-lucrative, SCA calculators! SCA= Super Crap Algebraic ;) -- Thierry Morissette thm47@msn.com > The last HP49G? You mean, now they don't have them any more? Hey could that be evidence for a successor? Greetings, > Nick ==== Add TA after SCA, and then look at some greek dictionary. You'll get a pretty good description of the crap ;-) Greetings, Nick. > Yeah ... or that they at last got rid of the last RPN stuff in their > inventory and now can at last concentrate on the super-smart, > super-lucrative, SCA calculators! > > SCA= Super Crap Algebraic ;) > -- > Thierry Morissette > thm47@msn.com > > > The last HP49G? You mean, now they don't have them any more? Hey could that be evidence for a successor? Greetings, > Nick ==== X > What is the meaning of the following? It surprised me. > HP 49G (and yet another one with 4->5MHz speed-up from > cynox.de) X > a) There are two models of HP 49. One at 4 and another at 5 Mhz. > b) I Change hardware of my HP49. c) With software is posible. > d) others......... (explain it please) A German company www.cynox.de sold me a microswitch enabled HP 49G conversion called double speed-up. Unfortunately only the serial IO might be doubled. The actual calculator will have two speeds: 2.5 MHz and 5 MHz This was revealed by doing some test calculations before sending the 49G for conversion. So if you like to have +25% speed increase which will cut back -20% from the execution times AND totally mess up your clock (going double speed) then contact the Cynox, please. Veli-Pekka I offer to you +25% increase in coding speed calling it the double speed, charging you double :) like this: Before, 50 Euros/hour, the new double speed *only* 200 Euros/hour, saving your valuable time at a nominal cost increase ;-) I wonder if you are NOW confused ?!! ==== > > It's more like ``Alexandros'' or ``Alekos'' :-) , but that's a technicality > (Alexis and Alexandros are two different names). I don't really mind being > called ``Alexis'', and some people (notably the late[*] Tsiros) call me that > way. > I can send you the text only versions but what about formulae? As they > are actually graphics they will disappear. Do you perhaps have any > graphics viewers available? Or do you want them in plain text (like > a+b) ? > > As plain text as possible. E.g., f(x) = e^x. I'm totally lacking graphics >support > in the console I'm at, and unfortunately can't print the (more or less) 300 >pages. OK, but please wait. For the time being I am (still recovering the initially thought. Then I'll extract the text and replace formulae with ascii. This is also going to be tedious. But I'm doing my best. > the conversion. Na'sai kala. > [*] In terms of NG participation, not (knock on wood!) of life >participation :) . transforming myself to Hull. For easy imaginable purpose ;-) Adios, Nikos. ==== > > OK, but please wait. For the time being I am (still recovering the > initially thought. Then I'll extract the text and replace formulae > with ascii. This is also going to be tedious. But I'm doing my best. Come on, hurry up, hurry up! :-) So, people, see what's so great about using (La)TeX? What did you write the Marathons in? MS Word? (I really *hate* the equation editor.) > Adios, > Nikos. Ante geia :-), Alekos. -- Alexandros Andreou, ee4299 at ee.teiath.gr. Undergraduate student, Department of Electronics, TEI of Athens. ==== > I'd like to know the HP48 community's opinions about high powered > math programs such as Mathematica, Maple, MatLab and Math Cad. > > Are there such PC math programs you've tried, and just loved > or just hated? > > Enquiring minds want to know. > > Ed First, I should mention that I'm slightly biased because I work for Wolfram Research. However, the whole point of my moving to Illinois was to work for WRI. Naturally, my family thought I was crazy to refuse offers from companies like Oracle and go to work for a company they'd never heard of, but I have never regretted my decision. I love Mathematica -- it is a truly amazing piece of software. Maple is so bad that I don't even consider it to be a competitor. Matlab is quite good in terms of numerics, so if you don't need symbolic manipulation, Matlab is a possibility. MathCad is, in a sense, better than Maple, but it is mathematically less powerful. You didn't mention Derive; it's a pretty good program for what it costs, but the Authoring environment needs some improvement. I'm not saying that Mathematica has always been great; in particular, I'm not really proud of the earliest versions (1.x and 2.x). But it improves greatly with each new version, and it has brought several innovations that competitors try to copy. , Wolfram Research. ==== Having used Derive, Maple, MathCAD, MatLab, and Mathematica, I would concur with you that the mathematics in Mathematica is very powerful, and the interface is very clean. If my memory serves, I think it's also the smallest, most efficient program regarding system memory. If I had to purchase one program today, it would either be MathCAD, Mathematica, or MatLab. Mathematica is great, and the user interface has made HUGE improvements over the years!!! Now its interface is more like MathCAD's started out. My biggest gripe with Mathematica is the price as compared to MathCAD, and the lite/student version of Mathematica didn't use the math co-processor, so I was partial to MathCAD since I could afford a functioning FULL version, at academic discount, some years ago - having first purchased version 5 Plus (a decade ago). I know; and this is a big difference! Mathematica supports all the previous OS's listed, and is consequently much more portable for serious corporate or educational computing. , do you have any deals for us/me? Competitive upgrade specials? Newsgroup quantity discount perhaps? 8) > I'd like to know the HP48 community's opinions about high powered > math programs such as Mathematica, Maple, MatLab and Math Cad. Are there such PC math programs you've tried, and just loved > or just hated? Enquiring minds want to know. Ed First, I should mention that I'm slightly biased because I work for > Wolfram Research. However, the whole point of my moving to Illinois > was to work for WRI. Naturally, my family thought I was crazy to > refuse offers from companies like Oracle and go to work for a company > they'd never heard of, but I have never regretted my decision. I love Mathematica -- it is a truly amazing piece of software. Maple > is so bad that I don't even consider it to be a competitor. Matlab is > quite good in terms of numerics, so if you don't need symbolic > manipulation, Matlab is a possibility. MathCad is, in a sense, better > than Maple, but it is mathematically less powerful. You didn't mention > Derive; it's a pretty good program for what it costs, but the > Authoring environment needs some improvement. I'm not saying that Mathematica has always been great; in particular, > I'm not really proud of the earliest versions (1.x and 2.x). But it > improves greatly with each new version, and it has brought several > innovations that competitors try to copy. , > Wolfram Research. > ==== > I'd like to know the HP48 community's opinions about high powered > math programs such as Mathematica, Maple, MatLab and Math Cad. Are there such PC math programs you've tried, and just loved > or just hated? [snip] > First, I should mention that I'm slightly biased because I work for > Wolfram Research. However, the whole point of my moving to Illinois > was to work for WRI. Naturally, my family thought I was crazy to > refuse offers from companies like Oracle and go to work for a company > they'd never heard of, but I have never regretted my decision. I love Mathematica -- it is a truly amazing piece of software. Maple > is so bad that I don't even consider it to be a competitor. Matlab is > quite good in terms of numerics, so if you don't need symbolic > manipulation, Matlab is a possibility. MathCad is, in a sense, better > than Maple, but it is mathematically less powerful. You didn't mention > Derive; it's a pretty good program for what it costs, but the > Authoring environment needs some improvement. I'm not saying that Mathematica has always been great; in particular, > I'm not really proud of the earliest versions (1.x and 2.x). But it > improves greatly with each new version, and it has brought several > innovations that competitors try to copy. I wonder why no one has mentioned Macsyma yet. It is the granddaddy of all symbolic math programs and a quick Web search shows that it's still available from several vendors. Does anyone still use it? Does it still measure up to its competitors or has it fallen behind? (I've only used Matlab in college, so I don't have any opinions worth mentioning in this thread.) -Michael -- Remove No Spam Please from return address. ==== > I wonder why no one has mentioned Macsyma yet. It is the granddaddy of all I use it on my desktop and on my Jornada 720 handheld pc. It is a great piece of software along with PARI. ==== > It would be interesting to compare the symbolic capabilities of different > math packages (and against the HP48). Perhaps someone can recommend a suite > of tests (or maybe such suites and results already exist). Mathematica and Maple are roughly equivalent in their symbolic capabilities, MathCad and Matlab do not have any such capabilities (at least not natively; both programs are offered with a Maple kernel add-on, offering some very limited symbolic capabilities). The HP48 does not enter such a comparison? That would be like comparing a Little Tikes toy car to the real thing. -- Helen. ==== > First, I should mention that I'm slightly biased because I work for > Wolfram Research. You are quite clearly more than slightly biased. > I love Mathematica -- it is a truly amazing piece of software. Maple > is so bad that I don't even consider it to be a competitor. See above. I think you are being disingenious here. Maple is generally acknowledged as _the_ main competitor to Mathematica, and most people (unbiased ones, of course) consider Maple a worthy competitor. Both packages boast large and active user communities, but I suspect that there are actually more people who prefer Maple over Mathematica than the other way around. There are significant libraries of software packages based on both these programs available, but again my suspicion is that Maple is backed by a more active community, which translates into a larger repository of user-contributed packages and software. There are more textbooks available that are based on Maple than ones based on Mathematica. If it matters, I am using and preferring Mathematica myself, but I am objective enough to acknowledge that Maple has a lot going for it. Mathematica has a lot going for it too, but it also has some clear downsides, first and foremost among these the fact that Wolfram is generally considered as being one of the most unpleasant companies to deal with in that area. As one example, the reason far more textbooks are based on Maple has a lot to do with the fact that many publishers dread having to deal with Wolfram. As another example, Mathematica has claimed to be able to export graphics as eps files for years, but up until the very latest version it has never produced eps files that included the fonts in such a way that they were usable by any piece of software on the planet. The reason: Stephen Wolfram insisted that in theory, their eps files should work; too bad that in practice they don't. That was the users' problem, not Wolfram's... > Matlab is > quite good in terms of numerics, so if you don't need symbolic > manipulation, Matlab is a possibility. Matlab is the premier package in the area of numerics, no contest. > MathCad is, in a sense, better > than Maple, but it is mathematically less powerful. I wonder in just what sense MathCad would be better than Maple. MathCad has no symbolic capabilities of its own at all (other than the ones provided by the included Maple kernel), and its programming capabilities are rudimentary to non-existing. Even in terms of its numerical capabilities it is a far cry from either Maple or Mathematica. Just about the only thing it has going for it are an easy-to-use and moderately pretty interface, an advantage that is however greatly offset by its notorious instability. I might also mention that given its capabilities, MathCad seems far over-priced. > I'm not saying that Mathematica has always been great; in particular, > I'm not really proud of the earliest versions (1.x and 2.x). Yup, the frontend used to crash at the drop of a hat, and the kernel wasn't much better... > But it > improves greatly with each new version, and it has brought several > innovations that competitors try to copy. I like Mathematica myself, but its interface still needs a lot more work, and Wolfram is doling out improvements in infinitesimal increments, at decidedly less than infinitesimal upgrade costs... -- Helen. ==== X > I love Mathematica -- it is a truly amazing piece of software. Maple > is so bad that I don't even consider it to be a competitor. X Really? ==== I can't do it! I can't multiply a 1-column matrix by a 1-row one! [1 2 3] [[1] [2] [3]] * should leave behind the 1x1 matrix [14]. Instead, it gives me an ``Invalid Dimention'' error. I skimmed through the ``Advanced'' User's Guide and the User's Manual, but didn't really find anything useful. Any ideas? Oh, and the (translated to Greek) User's Manual is abso-fscking- lutely pathetic; it was mechanically translated, leaving behind things like ``Manual of the 496 programmable calculator'' and ``systematic symptoms'' (where it should probably read ``system flag'' or something else). Next time HP thinks of translating a guide, they can come to me; I'll do it for free, to save possible users from the sheer agony of reading it (OK, not entirely for free, they'll have to throw in a calculatricator with the manual :-) ). -- Alexandros Andreou, ee4299 at ee.teiath.gr. Undergraduate student, Department of Electronics, TEI of Athens. ==== > >> There are some matrilineal societies where the >> women run things, They have all the money and property and ones >> ancestry is traced back through ones mother and grandmother, etc. > > Isn't that the way it goes everywhere? > (Wife=secret boss behind the scenes) ;-) Yes, but in these societies we get to stay at home and play with the kids/calculatricators while the women go out hunting to bring us food. And they still have to deliver babies. >> A newly married man moves in with his wife's family. > > Poor man, alone with the whole family of bosses, a minority in his own > home. ;-) Didn't you hear? It's not *his* home :) . Elpizv na mh zhtane kai proika... :))) Anyway, congratulations to Raymond; may the new couple live long and prosper. -- Alexandros Andreou, ee4299 at ee.teiath.gr. Undergraduate student, Department of Electronics, TEI of Athens. ==== > Dear calculator fans, Can anybody here answer the following questions asked out of pure curiosity, 1. When was the last time the HP 49g was available for sale from > Hewlett-Packard on their web site? > 2. Is the second part of the manual for HP 48G series (that they are > apparently still selling) for sale (new) anywhere ? thanks for any input, Well then I might say that but today, when I was solving a problem about using a terminal emulator capable of using F1..F12 from the keyboard of the HP Jornada 720 I overheard a question about ordering some 2000 calculators from HP (including the 49G), but substituting 9S for 6S and/or 30S EVEN these models where available from HP. Yes - the HP web pages seem to loose slowly their contents I mean calculators for sale. Moravia takes care of the calcs in Europe. Perhaps there is a deal to withdraw some models from the HP's page OR perhaps there really are some new models on the way (may there be a *real* keyboard) OR they have ceased to make any calculators OR Hmmmpph! How should I know - I'm not Curly (=Carly) BUT anyway - Your welcome on this INPUT. Mirek. ==== It worked! That was the only reason for me to write my silly > story. Just to make Rcobo write some of his really nice science > fiction stories. Any chance for a continuation of the Mother of all > TIs? I missed that. I want that. Isn't it time to add a 'HUMOUR' section in hpcalc.org? ==== >> No doubt about the appropriate picture: Shakira. >> > Can you make one with Anna Kournikova for me? :-) I'd ask one with Famke Janssen, but I doubt the screen is long enough to fit her. So, one with Madoka Wagure (die, Tsiros, die). -- Alexandros Andreou, ee4299 at ee.teiath.gr. This is the Balkans, this is not fun and games. ==== Can i ask you something?Do the programs for 48g work in a 49g? ==== UserRPL program transferred as ASCII eg. text source is OK. Better put your 49G in Approx. Mode > Can i ask you something?Do the programs for 48g work in a 49g? ==== For the polynomial (in vector fromat): [1 5 8 4] Both the 48G and the 49G yield the following roots: (-1,0) (-2,1.581E-7) (-2,-1.581E-7) The true roots are: (-1,0) (-2,0) (-2,0) Obviously, the calculator's results are approximations. Does anyone know why this occurs and if it is possible to set the calculator to get an exact answer? ==== > For the polynomial (in vector fromat): > > [1 5 8 4] > > Both the 48G and the 49G yield the following roots: > > (-1,0) > (-2,1.581E-7) > (-2,-1.581E-7) > > The true roots are: > > (-1,0) > (-2,0) > (-2,0) > > Obviously, the calculator's results are approximations. Does anyone know > why this occurs and if it is possible to set the calculator to get an exact > answer? > The polynomial root finder works numerically. For multiple roots, as in the example above, numerical precision is usually even worse. SOLVEVX(x^3+...) will give you the exact answer. Axel ==== > programming, then it is definately a good idea to get your head around ASM > programming (just an introductio if nothing else), becoz it is often used in > SYS programs. Once again there is also a very good (long) tutorial on the He can get away with SysRPL programming without having to learn ML. Really. > Real programmers use C because its the only language they can spell Meta thn RPL to xaos. ==== Is it possible to create a table showing the x and y values > for an equation on the 48? Here's a little UserRPL table [matrix] generator: << 5 ROLL { } + DUP SIZE 6 ROLLD > 1 << { ->NUM 12 RND } OBJ-> DROP >> DOSUBS 5 ROLLD SEQ > OBJ-> DUP 2 + ROLL SWAP OVER / SWAP 2 ->LIST ->ARRY > > 'TGEN' STO What about using the MAP command? Will it do it any faster/easier/shorter? (I leave the programming to you :) (and testing to Nick :)