A165 > Can anyone tell me if my 128k ram card, i tnk its a cmt. will work > in a GX ? Yes. My 128k RAM Card was bought for my HP48SX, and I used it in my HP48GX since I bought it. ==== Opinionmeter, Inc. is launcng a new product (see www.opinionmeter.com) and is looking for developers with Embedded HTML experinence for sm l screen devices. The screen size is 128x64 monchrome (same as the HP48GX). We are looking for assistance with screen formatting and user interface issues. Experience with WML, WAP, XML necessary. The project started with HTML (static screen), but changed when we introduced WML to handle variables like sbumit (hot keys). ==== in my previous life mumblety-mumblety years ago as a tech in the navy, there just weren't any serious test instruments that weren't hp. solid as a rock, every box. toss 'em off the deck in dry dock and they'd probably survive. on spboard, the asw folks even used hp-97's to store and read sonic signatures to identify other sps. my first hp was the hp55 around 1975. its claim to fame were the built-in timers wch i never found much use for. but it was solid as a rock. and every hp c culator i owned since then until after the 25e? i tnk? was rock-solid. i owned some top-end ti's ong the way, but the qu ity comparison beeen hp and ti was no comparison at l. and no comparison in support either. i owned that topend ti that had the card reader (ti87?) and it yielded about 90% errors reading the ca and the sin function yielded incorrect results. support for ti back then was in lubbock, tx and i could not get anyone there to even pay attention to ts issue or return my c ls. none of the dozens of hp's i've owned over the years have ever had a single problem. the first sign of qu ity slipping was when hp c culators started to be built in singapore and m aysia. but even these proved to be more durable than they looked. i still have a 27s that is one of my l-time favorites though the display is virtu ly unreadable and the built-in clock is to laugh at. best combinations of ease-of-use and useful function, imho. made is usa, 1987 it says on the back. nearly 20 years old and of the 'new design' that the hp old-timers said was a dramatic drop in qu ity. and still functioning perfectly. and i owned a couple of the hp48 models. big and clunky and the buttons were stiffnot much to be proud of there. not what i expected from hp at l. around ts point ti was actu ly able to compare itself to hp without the sound of laughter. i own a ti89, but i've never warmed up to it. it just doesn't work like an hp. and the keys just wobble around in their slots. and the display is hard to read. but re ly no choice unless i wanted to return to the hp4x series wch was showing its age. and ti does support mac osx with a couple of great programs that run fine and low a virtu ly seamless drag'n'drop type connection to the c culator. and, fin ly to the point of ts postgiven my c culator 'jones' i picked up one of the hp-49g+'s last week. i had read complaints on the web, but i was not prepared for what emerged from out of the package. i winced every time i pushed a key and got that 'tin-foil/tin-drum' noise effect echoing from that faceplate? and after a few days use, the 'left sft' red key has sunk down about a mm compared to the other keys and no longer makes that 'ringing' noise when pressed. i would consider ts an improvement if i could get l the other keys to behave the same and if you could actu ly hear the key-click sound. and in spite of trying the lame 'fix' going around, still get an occasion key not recognized. did anyone on the hp design team even try a production model out? 'm flabbergasted ts piece of crap got out the door. now, the display is head and shoulders above the previous series. the usb cable is very well made as is the leather case. but no mac sofare. and i cannot connect using the virtu pc emulator either. but the sd card makes up for ts somewhati was able to update it to v1.22 using the sd card. and they have not improved the insruction manu one bit. i was only able to get re ly started after reading the tutori at b.'s web page and some tips from . thanks ! of course i'm not returning it, but i am sorely disappointed in hp wch used to be the absolute best am an -tech company but has now sunk to the lowest levels by any comparison. there used to be a time when people would ask me for a recommendation for a pc, printer, camera, c culator &c and it was a no-brainer to recommend hp. those days are long gone. /guy === > rock. and every hp c culator i owned since then until after the 25e? i 25A and 25C, I still own the HP-25(A), my first programmable ever. > and i owned a couple of the hp48 models. big and clunky and the buttons > were stiffnot much to be proud of there. not what i expected from hp > at l. around ts point ti was actu ly able to compare itself to hp > without the sound of laughter. Everybody else seems to praise the 48 keyboard... Are you sure you are not t king abou the old 49G model? > i own a ti89, but i've never warmed up to it. it just doesn't work like > an hp. and the keys just wobble around in their slots. and the display > is hard to read. but re ly no choice unless i wanted to return to the > hp4x series wch was showing its age. and ti does support mac osx with > a couple of great programs that run fine and low a virtu ly seamless > drag'n'drop type connection to the c culator. Tha's what I'm doing with the new conn4x: Drag'n'Drop. Not on a Mac... X > 'left sft' red key has sunk down about a mm compared to the other > keys and no longer makes that 'ringing' noise when pressed. i would > consider ts an improvement if i could get l the other keys to > behave the same and if you could actu ly hear the key-click sound. > and in spite of trying the lame 'fix' going around, still get an > occasion key not recognized. Sorry to hear that - maybe you should use your warranty to get it SWAPped? X > now, the display is head and shoulders above the previous series. the > usb cable is very well made as is the leather case. but no mac > sofare. and i cannot connect using the virtu pc emulator either. but > the sd card makes up for ts somewhati was able to update it to > v1.22 using the sd card. and they have not improved the insruction manu one bit. i was only > able to get re ly started after reading the tutori at b.'s web > page and some tips from . Huh? The manu s are much better than what came with the old 49G??? They are not up to the level of the 48SX origin manu s, but adaque. You did not mention HP-41 series. Now THAT was a c culator system! The keyboard, USER mode, PHA, 4 modules, HP-IL, manu s... If you go to the hpmuseum pages and to the Forum, ¬ you will find out that a new tool is being prepared for the 41 PS: To me the speed of the I/O and the UI fo the new 49g+ are great improvements and willing to accept anytng for that BUT you're absolutely right on the kb qu ity: still not up to the 41 level ==== > in my previous life mumblety-mumblety years ago as a tech in the navy, > there just weren't any serious test instruments that weren't hp. solid > as a rock, every box. toss 'em off the deck in dry dock and they'd > probably survive. > Don't forget the beloved Simpson 260! ==== i fudged a little bit, . i wasn't a 're ' et (just a radioman) and they didn't very often trust me with a wmd like a vom. ts was just as well as they probably suspected i'd read dc on the 100kohms setting (guilty), thus i was mostly left to read the digits off the frequency counters. [g] otherwise i wouldn't have forgotten such a great instrument. even with my abuse, the fuse ways caught my mistakes. thanks for the reminder. /guy | > in my previous life mumblety-mumblety years ago as a tech in the navy, | > there just weren't any serious test instruments that weren't hp. solid | > as a rock, every box. toss 'em off the deck in dry dock and they'd | > probably survive. | > | Don't forget the beloved Simpson 260! | ==== > i fudged a little bit, . i wasn't a 're ' et (just a radioman) and > they didn't very often trust me with a wmd like a vom. ts was just as well as they probably suspected i'd read dc on the > 100kohms setting (guilty), thus i was mostly left to read the digits > off the frequency counters. [g] otherwise i wouldn't have forgotten such a great instrument. even with > my abuse, the fuse ways caught my mistakes. thanks for the reminder. > I was a radar tech on the USS Nimitz. I maintained air traffic control systems, so I usu ly de t with air traffic controllers. Since I so maintained Univac computers, I needed a c c that could easily convert from oct to decim . I used a Sharp EL-506P, as it was the only one I knew of (at the time) that could do it. I've since switched to HP (after discovering the glory that is RPN) but my Sharp EL-506P still works fine. I tnk it's about 18 years old! It was put through some VERY heavy use for a good number of years. ways nice to t k to a fellow sailor. As for the current state of HP, I feel your pain. ==== says... > I've since switched to HP (after discovering the glory that is RPN) It is the best tng since sliced bread, particularly if you're a programmer and stacks are ready second nature. > but my Sharp EL-506P still works fine. I tnk it's about 18 years old! I got my HP41CV w/math pack as a gift from my Uncle in 1982. It's still working perfectly. Not a single bad key on it. Let's see who can get a 49G+ to turn on in 21 years. Or even find one that hasn't been used as a wheel chock by then. Randy Howard _o 2reply remove FOOBAR <, ______________________()/ ()______________________________________________ SCO Spam-magnet: postmaster@sco.com === > I got my HP41CV w/math pack as a gift from my Uncle in 1982. It's still > working perfectly. Not a single bad key on it. Let's see who can > get a 49G+ to turn on in 21 years. Who cares about old models then? Stero display is so much more nice PS: The E-series had trouble with power connection 48 -series has a tendecy to fail [ON] and the sft keys in less than ten years. The rubber keys of the 49G were fy at first The 41 FX-manu was THE worst manu ever Do I have to go on? HP-28C memory was pityful and prevented serious use Even the 41C memory was quite sm l and needed extra RAM Any older model has too little memory and has LED for battery eating no way to use k ines...The 41CX Fulnu is the best! (or 41CY...) ==== EVERYtng you worte, IMHO, is RIGHT ON THE $$$s. I got a G+, and it bounced back to the vendor so fast they must have thought it was on a bungie cord. Amazingly, most on ts NG will overlook the pi$$ poor qu ity and cowboy engineering that went into ts tng. If I ever opened a business, I hope I can get a cuser base ts one....it appears that HP gets a mulligan eventhough they the gun misfired on ts c ulator. IMO, the last re c ulator HP made was the 41C series. The 48s are good too.......1000X better in qu ity than that new excuse for a c ulator. If they could take the guts of the G+ and bring the case/keyboard/manufacturing engineers out of their nursing homes, pay them big $$$ consulting fees and redesign the case and keyboard....then it would deserve the HP label. OK...I better duck now...incoming from the loy ists. If I was the project manager for the G+, i'd be spending XMAS getting my resume' ready. I'd expect to be fir and deserve it....that is if I could get over the embarassment of showing my face. CERTAINLY they must have re ized that the average cuser for ts macne is a ghly skilled technic profession well beyond the 99th percentile....not technic ly ch leneged... well, maybe not. Frank B. (Grumpy Aero Guy) > in my previous life mumblety-mumblety years ago as a tech in the navy, > there just weren't any serious test instruments that weren't hp. solid > as a rock, every box. toss 'em off the deck in dry dock and they'd > probably survive. on spboard, the asw folks even used hp-97's to store and read sonic > signatures to identify other sps. my first hp was the hp55 around 1975. its claim to fame were the > built-in timers wch i never found much use for. but it was solid as a > rock. and every hp c culator i owned since then until after the 25e? i > tnk? was rock-solid. i owned some top-end ti's ong the way, but the > qu ity comparison beeen hp and ti was no comparison at l. and no comparison in support either. i owned that topend ti that had > the card reader (ti87?) and it yielded about 90% errors reading the > ca and the sin function yielded incorrect results. support for ti > back then was in lubbock, tx and i could not get anyone there to even > pay attention to ts issue or return my c ls. none of the dozens of > hp's i've owned over the years have ever had a single problem. the first sign of qu ity slipping was when hp c culators started to > be built in singapore and m aysia. but even these proved to be more > durable than they looked. i still have a 27s that is one of my l-time > favorites though the display is virtu ly unreadable and the built-in > clock is to laugh at. best combinations of ease-of-use and useful > function, imho. made is usa, 1987 it says on the back. nearly 20 years > old and of the 'new design' that the hp old-timers said was a dramatic > drop in qu ity. and still functioning perfectly. and i owned a couple of the hp48 models. big and clunky and the buttons > were stiffnot much to be proud of there. not what i expected from hp > at l. around ts point ti was actu ly able to compare itself to hp > without the sound of laughter. i own a ti89, but i've never warmed up to it. it just doesn't work like > an hp. and the keys just wobble around in their slots. and the display > is hard to read. but re ly no choice unless i wanted to return to the > hp4x series wch was showing its age. and ti does support mac osx with > a couple of great programs that run fine and low a virtu ly seamless > drag'n'drop type connection to the c culator. and, fin ly to the point of ts postgiven my c culator 'jones' i > picked up one of the hp-49g+'s last week. i had read complaints on the > web, but i was not prepared for what emerged from out of the package. i winced every time i pushed a key and got that 'tin-foil/tin-drum' > noise effect echoing from that faceplate? and after a few days use, the > 'left sft' red key has sunk down about a mm compared to the other > keys and no longer makes that 'ringing' noise when pressed. i would > consider ts an improvement if i could get l the other keys to > behave the same and if you could actu ly hear the key-click sound. > and in spite of trying the lame 'fix' going around, still get an > occasion key not recognized. did anyone on the hp design team even try a production model out? 'm > flabbergasted ts piece of crap got out the door. now, the display is head and shoulders above the previous series. the > usb cable is very well made as is the leather case. but no mac > sofare. and i cannot connect using the virtu pc emulator either. but > the sd card makes up for ts somewhati was able to update it to > v1.22 using the sd card. and they have not improved the insruction manu one bit. i was only > able to get re ly started after reading the tutori at b.'s web > page and some tips from . thanks ! of course i'm not returning it, but i am sorely disappointed in hp > wch used to be the absolute best am an -tech company but has now > sunk to the lowest levels by any comparison. there used to be a time > when people would ask me for a recommendation for a pc, printer, > camera, c culator &c and it was a no-brainer to recommend hp. those > days are long gone. /guy ==== Hum, site is working at least. http://www.c cpro.com WHOIS site data says site is on. Well, it suggests that they are working, but the fact of a site be working do not assure notng at l. The most probably potesis is that they are in vacation time for tmas and New Year. [] > I ordered some stuff from them .. it never came ... I c l and just get >their answering macne ... they never c l me back. > Virgilio ==== > Does that mean the HP49+ could communicate with the Overhead Projector > that used a 10 pin connection > with the old HP49? > No. The overhead display is NOT using the HP49G seri port. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&selm= Virgilio ==== Well, thank's, but it has actu ly exactly the same effect as the HELP command (TOOLS / NEXT / F2), so Y wonder what is the difference beeen both... >There is one command I just understand how to put at work - maybe I even >don't understand what it is supposed to perform : >CASCMD, accessible through TOOLS / NEXT / F1. >Can someone please help ? > > It gives you a cat ogue of the CAS commands, just like CAT but only for the > CAS. ==== > Well, thank's, but it has actu ly exactly the same effect as the HELP > command (TOOLS / NEXT / F2), so Y wonder what is the difference beeen > both... > There is one command I just understand how to put at work - maybe I even >> don't understand what it is supposed to perform : >> CASCMD, accessible through TOOLS / NEXT / F1. >> Can someone please help ? >It gives you a cat ogue of the CAS commands, just like CAT but only for > the >CAS. Try it out: SIN CASCMD ==== Veli-Pekka Nousiainen a .8ecrit dans le message de >Well, thank's, but it has actu ly exactly the same effect as the HELP >command (TOOLS / NEXT / F2), so Y wonder what is the difference beeen >both... >There is one command I just understand how to put at work - maybe I > even >>don't understand what it is supposed to perform : >>CASCMD, accessible through TOOLS / NEXT / F1. >>Can someone please help ? >> >> It gives you a cat ogue of the CAS commands, just like CAT but only for >the >> CAS. > Try it out: > SIN > CASCMD ==== >snip< Those o ca have different cluster size. > With FAT16 partitions the cluster size is determined by how big the > partition is. For up to 15MB the cluster size is 512 bytes but for a 255MB card the > cluster size is 4K. How fast can you read form a card is given by the speed of the > transistors or memory cells used by the card itself. > Using the DOS format command (and the /A option), you can change the cluster ( location unit) size quite freely it seems. When I bought my 32Mb card, it was formatted with a 2048 byte location unit size and I have since reformatted it to 512 byte unit size tnking that the person who I borrowed the 256Mb card from ts morning and he has replied back and said the 256 Mb card is formatted with a 2048 byte location unit size. I am sure you are right about the speed of the card being mainly determined by the speed of its circuitry and not re ly by the cluster size. Perhaps if the SD card access routines were written in UserRPL, the cluster size might matter... > Virgilio ==== >X >I hope JYA will have time & interest to add ts feature in 2004... I didn't re ize JYA was directly involved with the 49g+ project - > that's good news! Well, I don't know about that, he doesn't work in the Carly Company anymore BUT I tnk he's the only one qu ified to do an OS upgrade. Maybe @ HP will consult m? Who knows?! They certainly know a lot and remember how JYA used to unoffici ly upgradefrom 1.18 up to 1.19-6/7 mostly using s spare time He is one wonderful chap and I thus put my hope in m...and CdB ==== Sandisk makes a 256MB Ultra II SD card at 65X wonder how fast that would be? > I have just received a new 49g+ that I ordered in for a cuser. He > was gracious enough to low the box to be opened at my store and > lowed me to try the keys - I had explained the potenti keyboard > issues and flicker to m and had showed m my 49g+ as well. The new > 49g+ has seri #CN33308xxx and my own 49g+ is #CN33108xxx. The new > one definitely has a much better keyboard than mine did when new. In > the meantime, the press-down-and-wipe t has more or less fixed l > the keys that had been giving me problems on mine. The new keyboard > is definitely somewhat stiffer to push though, but I can't be sure if > mine was perhaps so stiffer when new and now has simply gotten > softer. Natur ly, since I have only tried a grand tot of o 49g+ > c cs, I'm not sure if ts experience is typic or at l > statistic ly significant... just thought I'd add my experience for > the record. FYI, I work in a profession photograpc equipment store (in > Vancouver, BC, Canada) that so handles computer equipment: > -> www D0T beauphoto D0T com <- (for fear of getting even more spam at > work...) I recently found out that I can get HP c culators through a Canadian > HP distributer I de with. If anyone in Canada, especi ly on the > west coast, is having a hard time finding the HP 49g+ in stores, you > are welcome to contact me as I can speci -order them in and sell them > for $195 CDN (right around $145 US at todays exchange rate). Note > that we norm ly don't sell c culators and won't be stocking them, > but since people in Canada seem to be having a hard time locating the > 49g+, I thought I'd mention it here as a possible option for them. > Note that I actu ly bought mine from Samson Cables! :-0 Hope that little advertisement wasn't too inappropriate for ts > forum... Anyways, on to the SD card tests. Today, I quickly compared a > standard SanDisk 32Mb SD card to a gh-speed Lexar 256Mb 32x SD card. > What a huge difference! I performed an SD to SD copy in the > c culator using the Filer with roughly a 100Kb object from an SD > subdirectory to the SD root directory. The standard SanDisk card took > a whopping 24 seconds to complete ts and the 32x Lexar took only > about 3 seconds! Wow - 8 times faster! Too bad Lexar doesn't make > any ca sm ler than 256Mb that are 32x gh-speed... I would > probably have a hard time using up a card that big! One tng I just thought of though, is... whether the o were > formatted with the same cluster-size. Has anyone tested the effect > that cluster-size has on read/write speeds in the 49g+? If I hear > from anyone that tnks cluster-size is important, I would be happy to > reformat both ca and test again. I borrowed the 32x card from > someone and probably won't be able to try again for a wle though. ==== > Sandisk makes a 256MB Ultra II SD card at 65X wonder how fast that would be? Well if SanDisk rates their ca roughly the same way Lexar does, I guess that means the 65x SD card (wow!) would have an average read/write speed capability of 9750Kb per second! Whether or not it would actu ly be ice as fast as the Lexar 32x in the 49g+ is the question... An interesting site that has many CompactFlash speed tests, with site at: -> www D0T robg braith D0T com <- (anti-spam spelling) Just click on the CF Database link on the left for some very comprehensive tests. There is a lot of variation beeen brands and sizes and I don't tnk he t ks about SD ca at l, but it is still an interesting reference. ==== Well I have a question about bzing string on the 49g+. I have a program that has sever large strings (~45kb) and I was wondering. . . using OT49's ~ command then pops up a menu with sever other options. I had ways used the BZC to make a code object but it erros with my string. Is there a size limit on that command? My string is 43969 bytes -> 24158. I am planning on executing these directly from the SD card so wch would be the most appropriate. UBZe I'd assume? ~It is better to be ignorant and interested than ignorant and not interest and there's no ternative here. === > I am planning on executing these directly from the > SD card so wch would be the most appropriate. X Since even my 8MB MMC card has plenty of room I wonder why you need to pack anytng on a SD card? It's easier to get a huge program to the memory than BOTH the BZipped and the program UNLESS Wolfgang& the gang finds a way to unzip one chapter a time from a text file from a SD card? (I would still rather store each chapter as a separate file in a subdir) ==== > I have a program that has sever large strings (~45kb) and I > was wondering. . . using OT49's ~ command then pops up a > menu with sever other options. I had ways used the BZC > to make a code object but it erros with my string. Is there > a size limit on that command? Obviviously not - otherwise I would have written that in the docu. You may be in low memory condition. Or your origin string is not edititable (it contains nullcharacters). If not, the BZ-toggler ~ must compress it. If not send the zipped string to Amiel, Jonathan Busby and to me for investigation. ==== It doesn't seem to know about secant or cosecant. Derivitive of TAN(X) is TAN(X)^2 + 1, instead of SEC(X)^2. Makes piddling around with the old math textbooks difficult when trying to reach the same answers as the hand written process would yield. I presume ts is just the way it is in hp land. Is there any particular reason for ts? ==== > Derivitive of TAN(X) is TAN(X)^2 + 1, instead of SEC(X)^2. TAN(X)^2+1 = 1/COS(X^2) = SEC(X)^2 The HP 49g+ doese not auatic ly simplify; that is your job using the c cs built-in functions. ==== >> Derivitive of TAN(X) is TAN(X)^2 + 1, instead of SEC(X)^2. TAN(X)^2+1 = 1/COS(X^2) = SEC(X)^2 >The HP 49g+ doese not auatic ly simplify; that is your job using >the c cs built-in functions. Strangely, 4 ENTER 2 - doesn't yield 1+1 but rather 2. Maybe it only simplifies in certain cases... ==== I hope you understood, I re ly wasn't looking for a job. The c culator's user base transcends educators. Many of us ready knew that there is (or probably was) pathways to arrive at the equiv ence of the c culators result. It is the omission of o common trig functions that underlies the point. I have offered a suggestion to hp that it might be benefici to some people to include the secant and cosecant as trigonometric functions for frequent useage on future c c's. suggestion rding the MATCH functions (previous post) is a clever interim solution. >> Derivitive of TAN(X) is TAN(X)^2 + 1, instead of SEC(X)^2. TAN(X)^2+1 = 1/COS(X^2) = SEC(X)^2 >The HP 49g+ doese not auatic ly simplify; that is your job using >the c cs built-in functions. ==== > It doesn't seem to know about secant or cosecant. Derivitive of TAN(X) is TAN(X)^2 + 1, instead of SEC(X)^2. but there is a Trig identity that states Tan^2(x) + 1 = Sec^2(x). Therefore, if you are working with Tan(x) functions you should know the identites as well. I do understand your point. Makes piddling around with the old math textbooks difficult when > trying to reach the same answers as the hand written process would > yield. I presume ts is just the way it is in hp land. Is there any > particular reason for ts? I am guessing that the 49g+ actu ly takes the derivative of the function and does not use a lookup table as other c culators do. ==== >It doesn't seem to know about secant or cosecant. Derivitive of TAN(X) is TAN(X)^2 + 1, instead of SEC(X)^2. but there is a Trig identity that states Tan^2(x) + 1 = Sec^2(x). > Therefore, if you are working with Tan(x) functions you should know > the identites as well. > I do understand your point. X You can use MATCH^or MATCHV commands to make your own TRIGCOLLECT ==== >>It doesn't seem to know about secant or cosecant. >> Derivitive of TAN(X) is TAN(X)^2 + 1, instead of SEC(X)^2. >> but there is a Trig identity that states Tan^2(x) + 1 = Sec^2(x). >> Therefore, if you are working with Tan(x) functions you should know >> the identites as well. >> I do understand your point. >X >You can use MATCH^or MATCHV commands to make your own >TRIGCOLLECT > ==== > It doesn't seem to know about secant or cosecant. Derivitive of TAN(X) is TAN(X)^2 + 1, instead of SEC(X)^2. > Hum.. And what do you tnk TAN(X)^2+1 is? ==== I've learned to respect you for l your contribution to hp c c's; but you've missed the point. Clearly, there is equiv ence in the c c's result, but not in format. Ts result does not conform to textbook solutions, and adds both a layer of confusion, and further rigor to providing a solution that is sought after. I'm many years past concern over that, for any person scholastic need; but the re v ue-added feature of any macne-based solution is removing rigor, providing clarity, and credibility; in its output. So, yes, TAN(X)^2 + 1 is num ly equiv ent to SEC(X)^2, but ts is not equiv ent in format. Continued manipulation with ts result, given that it is some intermediate result, would be cause for more conversion steps before processing could continue. The c culator would be of greater v ue if it could be improved on ts point. Ts isn't a minor point in trigonometry since secant and cosecant are frequently encountered and quite common. It's not a matter of ones familiarization with trigonometry, though. Its an issue of macne efficiency or utility v ue in the hands of someone more interested in results than in process steps. just not quite the ultimate (yet). Ts cuser would like to see SECANT and COSECANT included in the next incarnation. (Just in case Carly cares and happens to be looking for feedback from one of its damn good cusers ... I've got a lot of hp products around the house and workplace!) >> It doesn't seem to know about secant or cosecant. >> Derivitive of TAN(X) is TAN(X)^2 + 1, instead of SEC(X)^2. >Hum.. >And what do you tnk TAN(X)^2+1 is? > === > Ts cuser would like to see SECANT and COSECANT included in the > next incarnation. (Just in case Carly cares and happens to be > looking for feedback from one of its damn good cusers ... I've got > a lot of hp products around the house and workplace!) I have suggested ts enhancement over the years not only we need the obvious functions: (A)CSC(H) ; (A)SEC(H) ; (A)COT(H) but so some new trigonometric substitutions, simplifications, and such... Tnk about ACOS2S, ASIN2C, ASIN2T, ATAN2S, TRIGCOS, TRIGSIN,... ==== was found somewhere): >Ts cuser would like to see SECANT and COSECANT included in the >next incarnation.... > I have suggested ts enhancement over the years > not only we need the obvious functions: > (A)CSC(H) ; (A)SEC(H) ; (A)COT(H) > but so some new trigonometric substitutions, simplifications,... Why not write a library Trigman wch includes not only these functions but so l basic trigonometric equations, including the ones from sph geometry. Go ahead: collect the equations and a lot of examples of application and write a Trigman.htm with your suggested commands. That's the main problem. Programming the library is easy... ==== > It doesn't seem to know about secant or cosecant. Derivitive of TAN(X) is TAN(X)^2 + 1, instead of SEC(X)^2. Makes piddling around with the old math textbooks difficult when > trying to reach the same answers as the hand written process would > yield. I presume ts is just the way it is in hp land. Is there any > particular reason for ts? I tnk that ts could be the solution: d(tanx)/dx = (sinx/cosx)' =cosx*1/cosx + sinx * (1/cosx)' =1 + sinx * (-1)* 1/(cosx)^2*(-sinx) =1 + (sinx/cosx)^2 =1 + (tanx)^2 = (sec x)^2 I just found the last line in my good old Taschenbuch der Mathematik, Bronstein, Semendjajew, Verlag Harry Deutsch, Frankfurt (1979) Greetings Stefan ==== On mine 49G+: 2:TAN(X) 1:X d (RS+COS) -> SQ(TAN(X))+1 TCOLLECT -> TAN(X)^2+1 ??? How did you get >It doesn't seem to know about secant or cosecant. Derivitive of TAN(X) is TAN(X)^2 + 1, instead of SEC(X)^2. Makes piddling around with the old math textbooks difficult when >trying to reach the same answers as the hand written process would >yield. I presume ts is just the way it is in hp land. Is there any >particular reason for ts? > I tnk that ts could be the solution: d(tanx)/dx = (sinx/cosx)' =cosx*1/cosx + sinx * (1/cosx)' =1 + sinx * (-1)* 1/(cosx)^2*(-sinx) =1 + (sinx/cosx)^2 =1 + (tanx)^2 = (sec x)^2 I just found the last line in my good old Taschenbuch der Mathematik, Bronstein, Semendjajew, Verlag Harry > Deutsch, Frankfurt (1979) > Greetings Stefan ==== How can you tell @ www.hpc c.org when a program is written in RPL as oppose to sysRPL? Ts may seem obvious to you? Jacques ____________________________________________ > l of the HP-48GX user RPL programs should be compatible, but sysRPL > probably will not, due to a change in the entry points. Check out > www.hpc c.org and Wolfgang Rautenberg's site for programs that have been > rewritten for the HP-49g+. >I have had HP-25, HP-11C, and a HP-32SII for the last 15 years or so. The >HP-32 has just given up on me and I purchased a few weeks ago as a >replacement a brand new HP-49G+. My question to ts group is: wch programs are likely to be compatible >with ts new macne? As you know, a lot of programs are on line for > older >macnes such as HP-39G, HP-48GX, & HP-49G. So without trying them l > wch >macne is likely to use programs that are native to the HP-49g+? Jacques ==== > How can you tell @ www.hpc c.org when a program is written in RPL as oppose > to sysRPL? Ts may seem obvious to you? Download it and look at it! If you can see UserRPL then that it is Otherwise its 'Externa.8a' or a library (sometimes 'Code') Remeber to get the latest conn4x with ASCII transfer !! ==== I have had HP-25, HP-11C, and a HP-32SII for the last 15 years or so. The > HP-32 has just given up on me and I purchased a few weeks ago as a > replacement a brand new HP-49G+. My question to ts group is: wch programs are likely to be compatible > with ts new macne? As you know, a lot of programs are on line for older > macnes such as HP-39G, HP-48GX, & HP-49G. So without trying them l wch > macne is likely to use programs that are native to the HP-49g+? > Most of the old 49G stuff works OK, but faster. Any old UserRPL should work when transferred as a string. Using Debug4 you may be able to transfer your SysRPL sources to 49G OS ==== Wow! I'd not be used to a macne like that for it's portable to boot! It used to be that you'd have a (HP) programmable/scientific c c, a pocket c endar/planner/phone list (the paper kind), a wrisatch (usu ly digit with arms, stopwatch, etc. capabilities), and a pencil and pad to write down the programs for your c c in case the batteries died or some other power mishap wiped the memory. Cell phones did not exist yet in sm l sizes nor for us po' folks. The macne doing what you ask for would be one dream macne. The only tngs I could add would be that it sports so a 455.4 cu. in. under the battery compartment and y be on the other end to beam me up when I run out of -test or when the radar detector goes off. But seriously, what would you categorize your dream device as? I might hesitate to consider it a c culator anymore. If you hooked a mass spec or gc or diffraceter to it, you could c l it a tricorder, if HP won't scrimp on RAM or create fast access to a SD port. > I somewhat agree that the gh end c culator as we know it is on the > way out. > However, there will ways be a need for such a device. Therefore, I > believe that the market will strive to ultimately get to a single > device that does it l - full PDA function ity and gh end > c culation ability. I currently use a 49G+, 49G, 48SX, 28S, sever laptops, sever > desktops, multiple sofare (Mathematica, Mathcad, Matlab, TK Solver > (a favorite of mine) and others), P m (you name it), Blackberry etc. For me, a perfect device would have the following as a minimum: 1. 200LX size and design > 2. Large, color, touch sensitive screen with LOTS of pixels. > 3. Has HP legacy keys - NOT the crap being produced to-day. > 4. Has L 49G+ capability + some serious solver functions (aka > Mathematica and TK solver). > 5. Runs MS office (not the diluted version) > 6. Takes Memory ca like compact flash > 7. Wireless communication inc Internet and Outlook functions > 8. Synchs to desktop. > There's more, but ts would hook me. > Some PDA's are coming close but still fail in the serious c culator > market. > ==== > Some PDA's are coming close but still fail in the serious c culator >market. ... and some other aspects.... The battery life is VERY IMPORTANT for some us, HP users. independence of the HP batteries. Maybe only a wrisatch has longer battery life. So you can work with it weeks, months, and in some cases years, with not being forced to change the batteries. I wish to have a color HP but if it is going to cut the battery life, I«ll prefer a much better and longer battery life than color. Maybe an HP macne that will not require electric source at l ... Dreaming ah!!!. ==== >I admit to remembering the days when people lamented over the feel of their >>slider and qu ity of the line on slide rules. [sigh] Of course, you could >>not plot anytng other than a straight line with that tool. >>[grin] The Sun Hemmi had about the best feel I remember; laminated bamboo, > wte plastic coat engraved lines. There were some yellow plastic > faced uminum ones that g led and had a terrible stiction at times, > maybe Pickett?, that may have had an extra sc e. I haven't seen > those for over forty years, but I have o different versions of the > Sun Hemmi, a Hughes Owens Student Slide Rule and a K&E (IIRC) > Log-Log duplex. so a six inch Sun Hemmi (with no overbranding) that > sits in my plane table idade box. I used that one ts summer. > Re ly Retro. Yes, the Hemmi has probably the smoothest slide action of anytng I've used. Even after l these years my Vers og has enough natur oil left in the bamboo to make it slide like a dream. The Pickett uminum models weren't plastic-faced; they were coated with a photograpc emulsion on wch the sc es were exposed and print then coated with a clear lacquer to protect the sc es. Besides the Eye-Saver Yellow models (whose model numbers ended in ES) there so were wte versions available. (Their model numbers ended in T for Tradition .) A Pickett rule slides pretty smoothly too if kept properly lubricated (grapte works well), otherwise g ling can be a problem. I have a couple of nice Picketts, but my favorites are my K+E rules (especi ly the 4081-3 Log-Log Duplex Decitrig). There's just sometng about that beautiful and smooth celluloid and mahogany construction... give ==== > couple of nice Picketts, but my favorites are my K+E rules (especi ly > the 4081-3 Log-Log Duplex Decitrig). There's just sometng about that > beautiful and smooth celluloid and mahogany construction... > I'm je ous! B, that model just sold for US $195 at http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/used.html http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/slide20/425-ke-4081-3s-front.jpg ==== I have a >> couple of nice Picketts, but my favorites are my K+E rules (especi ly >> the 4081-3 Log-Log Duplex Decitrig). There's just sometng about that >> beautiful and smooth celluloid and mahogany construction... >> I'm je ous! B, that model just sold for US $195 at http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/used.html http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/slide20/425-ke-4081-3s-front.jpg > These often go on eBay for considerably less (though not ways in as nice condition as the ones on the Sphere website). There are a couple on eBay right now with starting bids of $1.00 and $9.99. The one with the $1.00 bid, however, is a victim of KERCS (Keuffel and Esser Rotting Cursor Syndrome). Apparently K+E used a type of plastic in the sidebars of some of their cursors that hasn't held up well over the years. A cursor suffering from KERCS develops areas in the sidebars where the plastic seems to shrink in on itself, causing an uneven surface and cracks. Eventu ly these bars disintegrate completely and the cursor f ls apart. The pictures of the first rule I mentioned above clearly show that it is in an advanced stage of KERCS. Fortunately, ts type of plastic seems to have been used for only a few years and most K+E cursors are still in great shape even after 40 or 50 years (or more) since their manufacture. You just have to take a close look before buying a K+E rule. (KERCS is quite easy to spot once you know to look for it.) give ==== I am trying convert a 48 library to the 49 (and trying to learn more about RPL in the process) and I have a few questions. I used libcrack to take apart the library into its xlibs. I then disassembled them with Jazz and 48tabs on the 48GX. And I am trying to reassemble them with Jazz and 49tabs on the 48GX. I have come across a few obstacles, I tnk x? are the same as x< and x> on the 49. Does RPN-> convert to RPN-> on the 49? My next question, when I tried to reassemble a couple of xlibs the c c reboot code below. What whould be the best approach to learn more? John :: x<< xCLLCD ROMPTR 305 7D xTMENU HXS 10 CF1A300000000000 xSYSEV x>> ; ==== > I am trying convert a 48 library to the 49 (and trying to learn more > about RPL in the process) and I have a few questions. I used libcrack to > take apart the library into its xlibs. I then disassembled them with Jazz > and 48tabs on the 48GX. And I am trying to reassemble them with Jazz and > 49tabs on the 48GX. Have you not tried Jazz49? It only works with a specific rom though. > I have come across a few obstacles, I tnk x? are the same as > x< and x> on the 49. Does RPN-> convert to RPN-> on the 49? My next > question, when I tried to reassemble a couple of xlibs the c c reboot > code below. What whould be the best approach to learn more? I don't tnk you can tranfer rompointers by means of dissaassembling and reassembling. Best way to transfer user-rpl programs is to send it from HP48 in ascii format to the HP49. What is it you want to learn more about? Sys-rpl/user-rpl/porting programs/jazz? Daniel ==== > For: Y = (1 - X^2)^.5 Can't seem to find a combination of settings that will grapc ly > display ts properly. I just get the positive y - v ues. I've > tried setting various CAS modes: R='X' rigorous, approx, Function. > l I get is just the top h f circle. Can the whole circle be > displayed grapc ly? Use the CONIC plot instead of function... ==== > For: Y = (1 - X^2)^.5 > Can't seem to find a combination of settings that will grapc ly >display ts properly. I just get the positive y - v ues. I've >tried setting various CAS modes: R='X' rigorous, approx, Function. > l I get is just the top h f circle. Can the whole circle be >displayed grapc ly? ACtu ly, its correct to get only the positive y v ues, because SQRT(EXPRESION) must have a positive answer right?? X^2+Y^2=1 Is NOT a function... IF you want to get the whole circle plot these o functions: Y = (1 - X^2)^.5 Y = -(1 - X^2)^.5 Its not the c cs fault, it just graphed what you told it to. ==== I tnk you're probably pretty close in your tnking, as far as the given equation is concerned. Nowhere does it stipulate, in the equation, that only the positive root is to be consider though. Even if that *IS* the approach, the negative root could be shown as a segmented reflection (dashed line) about the axis of symmetry, just for the sake of completeness. However, if you have flag -01 set for gener solutions, *AND* the equation is rewritten in the form of X^2 + Y^2 = 1 *AND* the plot type is set to CONIC, l is well. At issue for me at least, is confusion in terms of setting up the macne to produce the desired result. There is a lot of wasted time trying ts and that with the outcome never certain until, luckily, one ts upon a useful configuration. It would be so much better to have a method of set up (flags, CAS, etc.) that defaults to a gener ly useful condition. Then when modifications are necessary, there should be a consistantly understandable approach. One possible way to implement ts would be to suggest to the user what an output would look like given different settings: Conic vs. function ... gener vs. princip , approx vs exact, etc. The expediency gained would be very useful to someone hoping to be more productive with ts tool. I'm sure there are better ways, but ts is just a suggestion for future consideration. >>For: Y = (1 - X^2)^.5 >Can't seem to find a combination of settings that will grapc ly >>display ts properly. I just get the positive y - v ues. I've >>tried setting various CAS modes: R='X' rigorous, approx, Function. >> l I get is just the top h f circle. Can the whole circle be >>displayed grapc ly? >ACtu ly, its correct to get only the positive y v ues, because >SQRT(EXPRESION) must have a positive answer right?? X^2+Y^2=1 Is NOT a function... >IF you want to get the whole circle plot these o functions: Y = (1 - X^2)^.5 >Y = -(1 - X^2)^.5 Its not the c cs fault, it just graphed what you told it to. ==== Not true ... CONIC plots ONLY positive-y v ues for the equation in ts form. > For: Y = (1 - X^2)^.5 >> Can't seem to find a combination of settings that will grapc ly >> display ts properly. I just get the positive y - v ues. I've >> tried setting various CAS modes: R='X' rigorous, approx, Function. >> l I get is just the top h f circle. Can the whole circle be >> displayed grapc ly? Use the CONIC plot instead of function... > ==== > Not true ... CONIC plots ONLY positive-y v ues for the equation in > ts form. But in 'X^2 + Y^2 -1' form, it plots both branches. > For: Y = (1 - X^2)^.5 >Can't seem to find a combination of settings that will grapc ly >> display ts properly. I just get the positive y - v ues. I've >> tried setting various CAS modes: R='X' rigorous, approx, Function. >> l I get is just the top h f circle. Can the whole circle be >> displayed grapc ly? Use the CONIC plot instead of function... ==== Not true ... CONIC plots ONLY positive-y v ues for the equation in >ts form. > If I remember correctly, ts depends on the system flag -01 ( Princip v ues/ Gener solutions) Change ts flag, and you should so get negative v ues. Gjemund Skailand ==== ( so) Not true ... CONIC or FUNCTION does not change the plot range for the given equation, with the setting of flag -01. >>Not true ... CONIC plots ONLY positive-y v ues for the equation in >>ts form. >If I remember correctly, ts depends on the system flag -01 ( Princip >v ues/ Gener solutions) Change ts flag, and you should so get negative v ues. >Gjemund Skailand > ==== > To draw X^2+Y^2=1 you must enter X^2+i^2=1. You'll get the whole circle. Or X^2-i^2=1. ==== I've noticed a (very) little problem on the user guide of the HP49G+. Ib chapter 24 there's a list of l type of object of the c culator, but number 20 misses. I'd like to know what kind of object corresponds to ts number. Daniele ==== > I've noticed a (very) little problem on the user guide of the HP49G+. > Ib chapter 24 there's a list of l type of object of the c culator, > but number 20 misses. I'd like to know what kind of object corresponds > to ts number. > Daniele My AUR says system binary (=DOBINT). Used for sysrpl programming. Daniel ==== I've noticed a (very) little problem on the user guide of the HP49G+. Ib chapter 24 there's a list of l type of object of the c culator, but number 20 misses. I'd like to know what kind of object corresponds to ts number. Daniele ==== > I am trying to understand the DOSYMB object. As fas as I know it represents > symbloic gerbraic expressions but how exaclty are these expressions > written? They are constructed much like a =DOCOL object. If you disassemble for example 'SIN(X)' with DIS (Jazz) you would see ts: SYMBOL ID X xSIN ; If you'd like to see the hex representation, try DCOD of hack library (comments added): 8BA20 * =DOSYMB 84E2010B5 * =DOIDNT X CA4B1 * =xSIN B2130 * =SEMI Here's a little more complicated expression (ratfunc from the EXAMPLES subdirectory): SYMBOL %6 ID x %2 x^ %9 x- x/ 4 %6 ID x x+ ID x %2 x^ x- x/ x+ %2 ID x %2 x^ %5 ID x x* x+ %6 x+ x/ x+ ; Hex: 8BA20 233A2 84E201087 ED2A2 D20B1 173A2 90DA1 50FA1 803A2 233A2 84E201087 76BA1 84E201087 ED2A2 D20B1 90DA1 50FA1 76BA1 ED2A2 84E201087 ED2A2 D20B1 D13A2 84E201087 EEDA1 76BA1 233A2 76BA1 50FA1 76BA1 B2130 Good luck! Daniel The AUG says that in the Xon/Xoff mode of SRECV the c c will send an XOFF sign when the receive buffer is most full. What does most mean here? Does it send the sign before or after the 255th byte starts loading? Robert ==== > The AUG says that in the Xon/Xoff mode of SRECV the c c will send an XOFF > sign when the receive buffer is most full. What does most mean here? > Does it send the sign before or after the 255th byte starts loading? In the case of the 48SX or 48GX, and presumably the 48S, 48G, and 48G+: With receive pacing enabl the XOFF (ASCII control code 19 decim ) has to be sent before the input buffer is full (255 bytes), so that the other device has time to respond to the XOFF and stop sending before the c culator's input buffer overflows. If I rec l correctly, the XOFF is sent if the c culator has at least 223 bytes in the input buffer and receives another one. After an XOFF has been sent, when the input buffer has less than 25 bytes in it, the c culator sends an XON (ASCII control code 17) to tell the other device to resume sending, You can find out the exact behaviour by using a termin (or termin emulator), or even another c culator (that uses XON/XOFF flow control), to send bytes to the c culator and paying attention to when BUFLEN stops telling you that more bytes have accumulated (don't remove bytes from the buffer with SRECV just yet). For example, send 220 bytes to the c culator, and then send bytes one at a time, using BUFLEN after each one to see how many bytes are in the input buffer. When the v ue from BUFLEN stops increasing, you'll know that the c culator must have sent an XOFF. Then use SRECV to remove bytes from the input buffer; for example, remove, let's say, 195 bytes, and then remove bytes one at a time, using BUFLEN after each SRECV to see how many bytes are in the input buffer. When the number of bytes in the input buffer stays the same or increases after an SRECV, you'll know that the c culator must have sent an XON. But be careful that the other device doesn't time out wle you're experimenting. I don't know of a way to adjust these trigger points on the c culator, but perhaps it could be done with SysRPL or assembler language. But for everytng that I've tried it with, the built-in XON/XOFF behaviour works flawlessly. The only problem is that you have to be careful not to have the XOFF or XON sign s in the data. If they might occur in the data, then you'll have to implement some sort of encoding/decoding scheme to get them through disguised as sometng else. With transmit pacing enabl for XMIT and the various printing commands (when printing via wire), the c culator stops sending when it receives an XOFF, and resumes sending (assuming that it's waiting to send anytng) when it receives an XON. I don't know how long it takes for the c culator to get around to sending these sign s, but the other device should assume that it won't be instantaneous. The above applies to a connection via wire. XON/XOFF flow control doesn't work with Seri IR because that's h f-duplex. Full-duplex isn't used with IR because reflected IR sign s would be misinterpreted as sign s from the other device. Note that with the Kermit protocol, the input buffer should never have enough bytes in it to trigger an XOFF response. Presumably, the same would be true of most ( l?) other devices that Kermit might be communicating with or through. I've never experimented with whether either receive or transmit pacing has any effect when using Kermit or Xmodem. In the case of the 49G, XON/XOFF flow control doesn't work. It doesn't send XOFF or XON sign s when receiving, nor does it heed the XOFF when transmitting. I expect that the 48gII will behave like the 49G, and if the 49g+ can use the seri I/O or printing commands (other than sending to the 82240A/B printer in Red-Eye mode), then I guess that it will behave as the 49G does. accessible Usenet Server - post.usenet.com ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** My c culator seems to be wearing out its batteries every o weeks, light usage. Is ts norm ? Did earlier models do ts? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== > My c culator seems to be wearing out its batteries every o weeks, light > usage. Is ts norm ? Did earlier models do ts? Have you upgraded to ROM 1.22? Ts addresses an gh battery usage problem, and increases battery life. Sarah ==== : > My c culator seems to be wearing out its batteries every o weeks, light : > usage. Is ts norm ? Did earlier models do ts? : Have you upgraded to ROM 1.22? Ts addresses an gh battery usage problem, : and increases battery life. I would love to be able to. as I only have linux, solaris and irix running at home and HP only supports windows. Keep working millions on welfare depend on you - fwp@deepthought.com ==== > I would love to be able to. as I only have linux, solaris and irix running > at home and HP only supports windows. > Try using the SD card it should work. ==== : > I would love to be able to. as I only have linux, solaris and irix : running : > at home and HP only supports windows. : > : Try using the SD card it should work. How do you get the rom image onto the SD card? The only downloads I can find are compressed in a .exe format. Keep working millions on welfare depend on you - fwp@deepthought.com ==== Have you upgraded to ROM 1.22? Ts addresses an gh battery usage problem, > and increases battery life. Sarah What shuold be norm battery life for average usage for the different ROM's? How did ts bug slip into the earlier ROM? (Average is probably hard to define, but let's say at least one hour work a day, running some library programs such as Vigas and Fem 49, if those are ported to the 49G+ yet) Kaspaas ==== Have you upgraded to ROM 1.22? Ts addresses an gh battery usage problem, >and increases battery life. Sarah What shuold be norm battery life for average usage for the different > ROM's? How did ts bug slip into the earlier ROM? Googling ts group yields a speculation thet Samsung changed a pin in the CPU so there was origin ly NO BUG at l!! The best fix is yet to come in 1.24 wch will forever kill ts nasty bug and so the sm l LCD flickering and a few other tngs Some new macnes came with 1.23 that ready has these fixes plus libraries are now STOred easily to SD via Filer. Be patient and wait for a Happy New Year gift in HP pages (January??) since the Xmas present is ready here: The new ASCII Conn4x !!! The battery life using most dead Rayovacs was one day before the fix and using the new c c(s) it's about 10 days (or more) - again using OLD Rayovacs accessible Usenet Server - post.usenet.com ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Is there a way to clear l the variables in the current directory? I saw a program somewhere to clear the variables used in the current equation, but I often want to clean up everytng. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== If you do not have any directories ( or if you do but they are empty) just use CLVAR. ==== > Ts experiment brings evidence that the BUSCC new hp49g+ saturn ROM > emulation command needs to be c led from a precise location to > operate. > since it is used in other instructions that do not make any beep or > click, nor that BUSCC may yield the slightiest beep one and c led > from a user-defined saturn ASM program anyway ) Update : LC(2) xx BUSCC $90 indeed yields a beep, of frequency and duration depending on C:B. > Since that command is quite often found in the new ROM, it is likely > that the BUSCC command behaviour DEPENDS on the v ue of the first > Return STacK level. Arghh ! I was mistaken : the right interpretation is that the BUSCC command depends on the v ue of C:B, or C:A... > As a conclusion, it is ghly doubious that such a command could be > used directly inside a user program (as said before). C ls to > routines including the BUSCC command would be mandatory, just like to > perform a OUT=C C=IN we ready used to c l OUTCINRTN in #01EECh > (HP48GX) or in #0020F (HP49G). > - > An interpretation of these results would be that the ARM9 emulation > core can be c led for precise purpose with the BUSCC command only by > ROM-based routines. > (the following lines are to try to answer to the frequent request of > accessing to ARM9 direct programming) > Perhaps is there, deeply dden in the levels of Flash System Rom, a > routine that uses BUSCC to read as ARM9 code the content of (D0) or > (D1), but ts is *NOT* for sure. > Else, I so strongly doubt it is even possible to write a native ARM > code based program on the hp49g+. ^^^^^ ||||| l of ts was wrong... The BUSCC command can be invoked from a User-written Saturn+ assembly program. > Note by the way that it is now obvious that without the c l to the > routine #3FEF1 using BUSCC, the main makebeep routine is worthless. > Perhaps that so is any LC 8xx OUT=C sequence... > Anyway, I wasn't able to get the slighliest beep or tick using the > OUT=C command directly. But I was using BUSCC $90. I suspect that Professor Rautenberg has so guess using Nosy, how to handle the header of the 49g+ with the same scheme... Ask m what is the speci command that enables to do it... Yoann. === > I suspect that Professor Rautenberg has so guess using Nosy, how > to handle the header of the 49g+ with the same scheme... > Ask m what is the speci command that enables to do it... Ahaa! Nosy is a very good tool, but the up/down scroll should be a bit slower... Maybe the BUSCC can be interpreted by a future ver. of Nosy??? ==== I would like to learn sysrpl but do not know where to start or what to study. anyone out there guide me in ts. I have some math skills, pre c culus is as far as i went. is ts enough math skills to do sysrpl? I am working now on the hp49g+ but i so use a 48gx. ==== > I would like to learn sysrpl but do not know where to start or what to > study. anyone out there guide me in ts. I have some math skills, > pre c culus is as far as i went. is ts enough math skills to do > sysrpl? I am working now on the hp49g+ but i so use a 48gx. Here is a page I did a long time ago with some sys-rpl and ml example source code: http://www.fi.tartu.ee/danli97/ Daniel ==== > I would like to learn sysrpl but do not know where to start or what to > study. anyone out there guide me in ts. I have some math skills, > pre c culus is as far as i went. is ts enough math skills to do > sysrpl? I am working now on the hp49g+ but i so use a 48gx. You don't need any Math skills to learn sysRPL. You need a good understanding of UserRPL. On the 49 use Nosy or xASM-> on the 48 use Jazz. Don't forget to inst l extables of entry points and to do 256 ATTACH on the 49. There is a very good PDF book on sysRPL on hpc c.org but it is huge. Try to decompile some sm l UserRPL programs with the tools above and by seeing their contents you'll start understanding SysRPL. Good luck ==== > I would like to learn sysrpl but do not know where to start or what to > study. anyone out there guide me in ts. I have some math skills, > pre c culus is as far as i went. is ts enough math skills to do > sysrpl? I am working now on the hp49g+ but i so use a 48gx. Get the latest Debug4x system from Hpc c.org. It will give you l the tools (including EMU that works with it) you need plus some documentation. Debug4x will do SysRPL for both 48 and 49. There are sample projects so you can see how it is done. There are other toolsets and techniques that work right on the c culator but I tnk ts is an easier way to learn! At least that was my intent! ==== > I am not sure how the version on the HP web got to be an executable instead of the Zip file I supplied BUT that seems to be the > problem. After you download the .exe do not run it. Instead use WinZip and Unzip the contents to a folder. Then run Setup.exe > from that folder and Conn4x will inst l anywhere you like with no problems (at least I was able to eliminate the errors ts way). There have been a couple of other errors mentioned during inst l and I suspect the same reason but cannot be sure. Hope ts helps. Indeed it does. Running HP_ConnectivityKit.exe directly results in various errors during the inst lation, wch go away if I reinst l it a few times, without doing any uninst ls in beeen. As HP_ConnectivityKit.exe was obviously compress I tried extracting the contents, but PKware products don't know what to make of it. After reading 's post, I searched out and downloaded a tri version of WinZip, wch successfully extracted the files. Now, after a thorough uninst l, SETUP.EXE runs without any errors. However, the first time that I physic ly connect the 49g+ and turn it on, MS Windows does its found new hardware routine, and it complains about not being able to find the file HPx9G.cat. The Find Files or Folders can't find it either. I told it to Skip ts file, and Conn4x seems to work ok. With the 49g+ plugged in and turned on, device manager shows HPx49G+ DEVICE on the USB, and says The device is working properly. Driver File Details shows me C:WINDOWSSYSTEMHPX9G98.SYS with Provider: C:WINDOWSSYSTEMVMM32.VXD(ntkern.vxd), Provider and File version both Not available. Is that what I should have for the drivers? Ts is with MS Windows 98SE. But I have a UC310 USB Seri Converter (it uses a Prolific Technology PL-2303 cp) that I'd been using for the connection to my UPS. Even after inst ling the latest drivers that I could find for the converter, if I use Conn4x when the converter is in use with the UPS, I soon get the Blue Screen of Death. Usu ly, the press any key to continue gets me back to Conn4x, but I've lost the connection to the UPS and can't establish a new one until I do a reboot. As far as I've notic I can have the converter connected to the USB (so device manager says it's there) as long as I don't have anytng connected to its seri port. I don't know wch has the problem, the converter or the Conn4x and HPx9G USB drivers package, but they don't work together. If you have problems when trying Conn4x, try removing, where feasible, other USB devices. ==== > Ts is with MS Windows 98SE. But I have a UC310 USB Seri Converter (it uses a Prolific Technology > PL-2303 cp) that I'd been using for the connection to my UPS. Even > after inst ling the latest drivers that I could find for the converter, > if I use Conn4x when the converter is in use with the UPS, I soon get > the Blue Screen of Death. Usu ly, the press any key to continue > gets me back to Conn4x, but I've lost the connection to the UPS and > can't establish a new one until I do a reboot. As far as I've notic I > can have the converter connected to the USB (so device manager says it's > there) as long as I don't have anytng connected to its seri port. I > don't know wch has the problem, the converter or the Conn4x and HPx9G > USB drivers package, but they don't work together. An update on ts problem: I've found and inst led an even newer (version 1.5.0.0) set of drivers for the converter, and the BSOD problem seems to be gone. I can now use the converter for the connection to the UPS, and use the re COM1 for connections to the c culators (except for the 49g+) and so on. Well, the old Xmodem connectivity kit still won't work through the converter, nor will Conn4x. Now the converter's seri port shows up as COM6, so I can no longer connect HPComm through it. But the Capture Image... on HPComm never did work through the converter anyway. > If you have problems when trying Conn4x, try removing, where feasible, > other USB devices. ==== Wlst browsing through the 39G ROM with the inbuilt viewer, I came across the following address': 76019: It says here TS IS NOT AN EASTER EGG BUT A KEY TABLE 84D92: It says here SYSTEM 8 Around 67F61: Has l sorts of stuff about directories and creating,copying purging variables 67D57: Display ticking clock 67B99 onwa has ot of settings to be adjust like angle system etc. that are not in the standard menus. 7644D: Has a dden test menu 7612B, is the most interesting with another menu that has, amongst other tngs an option for an RS232 termin ! How can we access these??? How can we start execution at these addresses??? ==== > I only have the emulator version, where it works OK. You don't want > to inst l the c culator version, I did that and my hp49g c culator > went haywire: will turn on on its own, use up the batteries very > quickly, and assorted other problems. I re-inst led 1.19-6 as soon > as I could! The problem re ly is what 1.19-7 did you get ... There have been a lot (unoffici of course) ==== The problem re ly is what 1.19-7 did you get ... There have been a lot > (unoffici of course) And the offici version will come out when?? ==== Then maybe J-Y: give us your unoffici version :)) I only have the emulator version, where it works OK. You don't want >to inst l the c culator version, I did that and my hp49g c culator >went haywire: will turn on on its own, use up the batteries very >quickly, and assorted other problems. I re-inst led 1.19-6 as soon >as I could! The problem re ly is what 1.19-7 did you get ... There have been a lot > (unoffici of course) > ==== Does anybody know about a HP 42S emulator? I did read about the memory scanner on hpc c.org, but do not know much more and just noticed that there's no kml script for the 42S. Is it possible to use EMU48 to emulate a 42S? On a different note. When the pioneer cases was still produc the hp rep would visit the students at the engineering and science faculties (Wch so do not happen anymore!) and to demonstrate the claculators qu ity, he would ask the class who wants to look at the c culator. Then somebody, whom the rep had arranged with beforehand, at the back of the class would raise s hand. The rep would then toss the c c to m, and the student would deliberately not catch it, so that it ts the floor/w l, and then, when its picked up, to everybody's surprise, it would still function 100% wouthout any serious damage. That t sold them a lot of c c's. I wouldn't suggets tossing a 48xx, definetely not a 49 and would never try it with my 42S. But i did have a 20S. Hating gabraic c cs, I used ts one to demonstrate the t to people. But apparently there's limits to everytng, and one day during projectile demonstration, ts 20S had enough and the LCD display cracked. I then used the opportunity to have a look at the intern s of the tng, and was re ly surprised by the solid construction and teh rather robust met chassis plate inside. Have a nice day everybody! Kaspaas ==== Kaspaas <13193686@sun.ac.za> schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Does anybody know about a HP 42S emulator? I did read about the memory > scanner on hpc c.org, but do not know much more and just noticed that > there's no kml script for the 42S. Is it possible to use EMU48 to > emulate a 42S? Directly, definitely not. Search for the topic Emu42. Ts emulator isn't supported! 2nd, commerci product HP42-X at http://hrastprogrammer.tripod.com/ wch will run on Emu48 toph ==== > I wouldn't suggets tossing a 48xx, definetely not a 49 and would never > try it with my 42S. But i did have a 20S. Hating gabraic c cs, I I ready did that with my 42S, but that was long before I re ly knew its v ue (not fiduciary). - Moi je trouve qu'il est debile de vouloir detruir kekel ke chose MG> Ta touche k est coinc.8ee ? -+- G in GNU : dans le kk jusqu'au cou -+- ==== there are 4 kind number formats such as std, fix, eng, sci but what i want. I want see like ts, 123,456.1235 for the number 123,456.12345 How can I get ts. ==== > I want see like ts, 123,456.1235 for the number 123,456.12345 though people who c l themself cacao or so should rather be ignor ts question is raised over and over again. There is no built-in tool displaying large re s in the pattern you like. But it wouldn't be a big de for the developers to adapt flag -79 (textbook). Textbook need only look at single re s in level 1 and modify the grapc display of level 1 in a way that, e.g., 123456.789 is seen as 123,456.789 Clearly, ts slows down the default stack view. But I guess the 49+ is fast enough to sw low ts addition task without sach-ache... ==== there are 4 kind number formats such as std, fix, eng, sci > but what i want. I want see like ts, 123,456.1235 for the number 123,456.12345 How can I get ts. > Just use fix and then the # of decim places. So you would want fix 2 in the later case, but that would give you .12 for the 1st case as well. i dont tnk maybe i know what you want. If youy want it to change auatic ly for each case im not sure if or how it can be done. good luck ==== there are 4 kind number formats such as std, fix, eng, sci > but what i want. I want see like ts, 123,456.1235 for the number 123,456.12345 How can I get ts. > RPL: 4 FIX or 2 FIX G: FIX(4) or FIX(2) both: [MODE] select Number Format FIX and then to the right a number 4 or 2 ==== i have coded in sysrpl a program that can rotate any 3D shape ( except circular objects ) wouldnt mind to know what u guys tnk, it runs a bit slow at the moment especi ly on the 49g, on the 49g+ its not to bad. program: http://www.geocities.com/wapcaplet83/3DSHAPE.zip source code: http://www.geocities.com/wapcaplet83/rotate4.zip ==== those who use Keyman+ for the HP49G+ get a tmas present: an updating to version 1.2004. What is new? The option assignment longhold 0..2 in More has been expanded to longhold 0..3. Thus, holding one of these num keys a bit longer launches a correspnding port browser. Ts is the SD-card in case of longhold 3. The accompagning 2-page menu covers the basic options to manage ports or card. In l cases, the hardkeys N, S, T for sorting are active, and key U unsorts. Ts hardkey deplorably lacks in the standard filer. Thus, browsing the card with longhold 3 is independend on the filer. It is much faster than first entering the filer and then choosing the card entry. Critics and beta-testing are wellcome. http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/~raut/WR49/index.htm#Keys PS. Note that so double-clicked PHA works for search. I took ts option from the standard filer, though it wasn't made with particular ==== I'm not sure what the re difference is in the versions of Connect4. I've been able to download everytng I need to my HP with the origin version from HP. I understand that you can now send files via ascii format verses binary....but I don't know what difference that part makes. TIA JB ==== > I'm not sure what the re difference is in the versions of Connect4. > I've been able to download everytng I need to my HP with the > origin version from HP. I understand that you can now send files via > ascii format verses binary....but I don't know what difference that > part makes. Text transfers mean you can edit some objects on your PC directly. However, I would get the latest version from HP even if you don't care about the ASCII features. There have been enough fixes and improvements to make it worth downloading! ==== ... including a new usb driver. I'm not sure what the re difference is in the versions of Connect4. >I've been able to download everytng I need to my HP with the >origin version from HP. I understand that you can now send files via >ascii format verses binary....but I don't know what difference that >part makes. Text transfers mean you can edit some objects on your PC directly. > However, I would get the latest version from HP even if you don't care about the ASCII features. There have been enough fixes and > improvements to make it worth downloading! ==== > [...] I get that, but I don't see how you can access different views > just by that number. [...] B I want to access the PLOT SETUP view. Admittedly, my answer was hardly readable, but I re ly hope you haven't spent that much time trying to make sense of it! NAMELESS _Main :: { MINUSONE { { $ Start :: ZERO INT_00 ; } { $ Plot Setup :: ONE INT_00 ; } { $ About NotesViewUI } } StndVar StndEntry StndExit } BinLookup case EV ONE #=case FuncPSetup1 * Rest of your Main routine here, namely: view entry handler, view exit * handler, display object, hardkey handler, NonAppKey flag, softkey menu, * menu row and error object: [...] ; Now your aplet c ls the Plot Setup view when pressing SFT-PLOT or choosing Plot Setup from the list displayed by VIEWS. ==== >I just updated Filer5 for the HP49+. Besides creating date-stamped HOME >backups on the SD-card (Port3) you may save everytng from the builtin >ports, l libraries included! Made with the new option ->SD-> on menu >page 2. Just select l items in port you want to save on the card and >press ->SD->. Saving is done sequenti ly. Hence. not too much temp Mem >is needed. A library with numb xyz is saved in a list named Lxyz. > After inst ling the latest Filer5 with the ->SD-> command with auatic save, I find it not so easy to see wch port is supposed to contain items. I tried selecting items to copy to a port, but the copy command doesn't seem to support a subdir for destination? It would be nice if the full ->SD-> command copied to o directories, port1 and port2 on the SD card. B WR, your programs are the most useful I've inst led on the 49g+ by far. ==== I wonder if anyone of you folks knows how to assign a key click sound to the hp 48gx. I used to have a 49G and liked that feature. But for a person reason i went back to my dear 48gx. But, I re ize now that i miss that option. Have you got any ideas? ==== Is there a program for the 48g that makes the c c a number pad for a computer? I did a quick search on hpc c.org, but couldn't find any. Might be handy for a laptop, (or would at least save $40). Andrew ==== I am trying to de with the issue of variable names on the c culator and file names under Windows (perhaps Macintosh and other OS should so be considered for the long view). Currently Conn4x just copies names. If there are unprintable characters in Windows with an embedded question mark). Fortunately ts is a very unusu problem for most users who do not name variables with these names. But I would like to find a workable solution and, perhaps, sometng that can be applied by other writers of c culator and PC sofare. I believe that the older Kermit and other connectivity sofare never de t with ts issue. Characters beyond 128 (decim ) can be expressed as tri-graphs like 128 etc. so we have tngs like -> for the right arrow. Unfortunately ts does NOT WORK for file names because Windows does not low either the or the / (maybe a good substitute) in file names. I am tnking of just using the single quote character ' the same way in a file name as we use the in other text. Thus '128 is the character whose code is 128 and a right arrow in a file name could be '-> Ts could work because ' can be a v id Windows file name but it is NOT a v id character in the c culator file name. Conn4x could auatic ly translate file names as needed and recognize the speci cases on the c culator (like ?) that cannot be directly expressed on the PC. What do you tnk? Any other ideas? Any PC sofare ever de t with ts issue before? ==== > I am tnking of just using the single quote character ' the same way > in a file name as we use the in other text. Thus '128 is the > character whose code is 128 and a right arrow in a file name could be > '-> Ts could work because ' can be a v id Windows file Please don't use a quote character (single or double). They are hard to de with in various shells. The '%' (percent) character I suggested in another reply doesn't have ts problem. ==== > Characters beyond 128 (decim ) can be expressed as tri-graphs like > 128 etc. so we have tngs like -> for the right arrow. > Unfortunately ts does NOT WORK for file names because Windows does > not low either the or the / (maybe a good substitute) in file > names. Another style of num character quoting commonly used is a percent sign followed by o hex digits, such as %80 for character 128 decim . I person ly would prefer that (or sometng like it) over use of three-digit decim representation. ==== > Another style of num character quoting commonly used is a percent > sign followed by o hex digits, such as %80 for character 128 decim . > I person ly would prefer that (or sometng like it) over use of > three-digit decim representation. Unfortunately % is a v id character in HP file names so we could have some backwa compatibility issues. Maybe ^ could be used? ==== > Another style of num character quoting commonly used is a percent > sign followed by o hex digits, such as %80 for character 128 decim . > I person ly would prefer that (or sometng like it) over use of > three-digit decim representation. Unfortunately % is a v id character in HP file names so we could have some backwa compatibility issues. > Maybe ^ could be used? > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ^5E is ok with me ==== > Another style of num character quoting commonly used is a percent > sign followed by o hex digits, such as %80 for character 128 decim . > I person ly would prefer that (or sometng like it) over use of > three-digit decim representation. Unfortunately % is a v id character in HP file names so we could have > some backwa compatibility issues. > Maybe ^ could be used? > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > ^5E is ok with me How about underscore? _5F or maybe beeen brackets? Like ts: (28)(29) That would be very easy to spot and it could so have both a beginning and end so I would use (decim _coding) 1, 2, or 3 digits AND the underscore for fixed length o hex_digit coding ==== I like your idea. It would so be useful (I tnk) if the notion of the wildcard useage of ? mark and * mark could retain their PC meaning. The wildcard concept could be useful when moving var's to the SD, or mass moving / copying to other directories on the c c, for example. >I am trying to de with the issue of variable names on the c culator and file names under Windows (perhaps Macintosh and other OS >should so be considered for the long view). Currently Conn4x just copies names. If there are unprintable characters in Windows >with an embedded question mark). Fortunately ts is a very unusu problem for most users who do not name variables with these names. But I would like to find a >workable solution and, perhaps, sometng that can be applied by other writers of c culator and PC sofare. I believe that the >older Kermit and other connectivity sofare never de t with ts issue. Characters beyond 128 (decim ) can be expressed as tri-graphs like 128 etc. so we have tngs like -> for the right arrow. >Unfortunately ts does NOT WORK for file names because Windows does not low either the or the / (maybe a good substitute) in >file names. I am tnking of just using the single quote character ' the same way in a file name as we use the in other text. Thus '128 is >the character whose code is 128 and a right arrow in a file name could be '-> Ts could work because ' can be a v id Windows file >name but it is NOT a v id character in the c culator file name. Conn4x could auatic ly translate file names as needed and >recognize the speci cases on the c culator (like ?) that cannot be directly expressed on the PC. What do you tnk? Any other ideas? Any PC sofare ever de t with ts issue before? > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Graves RKBA! >bgraves@ix.netcom.com > ==== I need to know from some veteran of HP c cs: Andre Schoorl - where is s page of FAQS? Mika Heiskanen- where is s page? Jean Yves - Where is s page? de Brebison - Where is s page? and where is John Meyers? [] ==== you can find the FAQ and l the information you need in HPC C.ORG ,you just have to look for it. ESM ==== Is there a program for the 48g that makes the c c a number pad for a computer? YES!! If you use Windows, go to control panel/accessibility options. Then go to the Gener Tab, and put a check mark in the box that says Support Seri Key Devices. Set you baud rate and com port in the box that says settings. Then t the button for Apply. On your hp, you need a little program that sends line one of the stack out the seri port. You program could be << STR-> XMIT DROP >>. I recomend assigning ts little program to a sfted ENTER. That way you can perform your c cs on the hp, and then send your answers to whatever Windows application that is current. Ts is quite a handy tng. I have used ts method with my hp's connected to survey instruments, then flick a switchbox, and data streams to my Autocad application, creating 3d models of structures in re time. There is no limit to what the imagination can aceve!! ==== I've recently downloaded Conn4X (V2.1, build 2118). I still cannot backup my 49G+. Does anybody have the same problem and is there a workaround? Aubrey. ==== I currently have a TI-89 wch is getting pretty old. The link port's broken, and there's a chance it will break soon. I have taken a look at the HP-49G+, and it looks pretty cool. I have some questions, though... How does the Computer gebra System compare beeen the TI and the HP? The 89 is very natur in how it works with equations, and I'm wondering if the HP is less intuitive, since the CAS was added separately. How does the speed compare? Especi ly with programmingTI-BASIC is *horribly* inefficient, and it so has some semantic annoyances, such as the inability to interact with the user or change glob variables in a function. (They eliminated side effects of order of function ev uation by not lowing functions to change anytng.) UserRPL seems much more elegant, but I'm re ly worried about speed; TI-BASIC is interpret and it's horribly slow. I heard that the HP stores programs as ROM addresses, so is it faster? Anyone willing to test and time a couple of sample programs for me? Does anyone know a good place to find * l* the commands on the HP, organized by usage (not phabetic ly) and with sufficient examples to understand them? The User's Manu and User's Guide are very informative, but they do not have a full listing of the commands and, most notably, leave out the IR/Seri stuff wch I would want to play with. I found the Advanced User's Reference for the HP-49G, but there's no intermmediate document beeen step-by-step tutori s for specific uses and an phabetic listing of commands. My 89 has actu ly lasted for much longer than previously expected. I've dropped it so many times I can't count, and it's still working. The link port broke, but very few people have 89's anyway. Anytng else I should know about whether to buy one of these? By the way, I'm a gh school student taking Geometry, Pre-C c, and C culus. (Random side note) Does anybody tnk it would be possible to write a program to receive and execute BASIC programs from TI's? It would be great to have a TI-83+ emulator (TI-BASIC only) on my HP so I could write games for friends... Thomas Tuttle ==== > I currently have a TI-89 wch is getting pretty old. The link port's > broken, and there's a chance it will break soon. I have taken a look My link port broke and they repaired it for free a year and a h f after my warranty expired. I have only heard of one other person having ts problem and s was repaired for free as well. > at the HP-49G+, and it looks pretty cool. I have some questions, > though... *horribly* inefficient Ya, it is slow when it comes some tngs. But look at how flexible and featured the language is and consider that you are interpretting a gher level language on a sm l macne. I would hardly c l that inefficient. so, consider what you are trying to accomplish. BASIC is meant for problem solving(arguably the purpose of a grapbg c culator) programs. If you want to make games or have fancy animations, BASIC is not the answer. > and it so has some semantic annoyances, such > as the inability to interact with the user or change glob variables > in a function. (They eliminated side effects of order of function > ev uation by not lowing functions to change anytng.) Why should you be able to? Functions take a v ue and return a v ue, notng more. If you want to interact with the user make a program. A program can return and accept v ues just like a function and can be c led from another program. Hope that helped. eph Mobius === > How does the Computer gebra System compare beeen the TI and the > HP? The 89 is very natur in how it works with equations, and I'm > wondering if the HP is less intuitive, since the CAS was added > separately. The HP has more Matrix commands, SERIES, etc... but no autosimplify build-in > How does the speed compare? Especi ly with programmingTI-BASIC is > *horribly* inefficient, and it so has some semantic annoyances, such > as the inability to interact with the user or change glob variables > in a function. (They eliminated side effects of order of function > ev uation by not lowing functions to change anytng.) UserRPL > seems much more elegant, but I'm re ly worried about speed; TI-BASIC > is interpret and it's horribly slow. I heard that the HP stores > programs as ROM addresses, so is it faster? Anyone willing to test > and time a couple of sample programs for me? The UserRPL is much faster,speci ly using binary number loops You gain even more speed using the build-in SysRPL (de)compiler If that's not enough even the Assembler is build-in!! You have Glob varaibles, loc variables, compiled loc variables and kind of neat stuff - the tayloring leaves very little to add. > Does anyone know a good place to find * l* the commands on the HP, > organized by usage (not phabetic ly) and with sufficient examples > to understand them? The User's Manu and User's Guide are very > informative, but they do not have a full listing of the commands and, > most notably, leave out the IR/Seri stuff wch I would want to play > with. I found the Advanced User's Reference for the HP-49G, but > there's no intermmediate document beeen step-by-step tutori s for > specific uses and an phabetic listing of commands. Hmmm.there is a certain Wiki-Wiki page that I have not visited lately... Where was it? X > Anytng else I should know about whether to buy one of these? By the > way, I'm a gh school student taking Geometry, Pre-C c, and > C culus. (Random side note) Does anybody tnk it would be possible to write a > program to receive and execute BASIC programs from TI's? It would be > great to have a TI-83+ emulator (TI-BASIC only) on my HP so I could > write games for friends... You'd better look at some SysRPL game sources in the www.hpc c.org ==== <> Approximately equiv ent. Of course, since they are different c culators, there are tngs one does better than the other, but on the whole, it l b ances out. The advantages of the HP49G+ are the USB port and the SD card (besides OS stuff such as RPL and better flexibility). IMHO, the IR is not much of an advantage. <> I find the flags of the HP49G(+) rather confusing. Ts may vary from user to user, though. <> The TI-89 (HW2) and HP49G+ are approximately equiv ent speed-wise. Depends on what you're doing, of course. <> I guess you mean the dynamic For-loops. I try to use seq() or other commands instead. <> Ts was a design decision. It doesn't bother me at l, though. <> You can speed up some kinds of operations by writing the program in C. <> Yes, 83+'s are much more common. <> Person ly, I would avoid using such c culators until I was most done with c culus. Just my opinion... <> It would be rather difficult. I tnk BP has done sometng like ts for GIAC. ==== < wondering if the HP is less intuitive, since the CAS was added > separately.>> I find the flags of the HP49G(+) rather confusing. Ts may vary from > user to user, though. They are *very* confusing if your not familiar with them. If your familiar with them then theyre still confusing. And, when handling trigs, thte tng gets worse. AND im just guessing it gets even more ocnfsing when handling more complicated stuff. smile The other problem when solving eqs, systems etc is l the different solving commands and solvers. The good tng is that most any equation can be solved with the c c. < User an Sys RPL own. Youll see. > < the way, I'm a gh school student taking Geometry, Pre-C c, and > C culus.>> Person ly, I would avoid using such c culators until I was most > done with c culus. Just my opinion... For geometry at least it is WAY better to use no c c at l. I dont know c culus so i cant say. < receive and execute BASIC programs from TI's?> Perhaps if 1- You study sometng related OR 2-YOu have no life Just my opinion. ==== > After inst ling the latest Filer5 with the ->SD-> command with > auatic save, I find it not so easy to see wch port is supposed to > contain items. > I tried selecting items to copy to a port, but the copy command > doesn't seem to support a subdir for destination? > B WR, your programs are the most useful I've inst led on the 49g+ > by far. Beither COPY nor ->SD-> preserve the directory structure on the card. But the structure should be ined in back tranfer. Observe the following essenti difference beeen COPY and ->SD->: The former may overwrite equ ly named backup objects, the latter does never. I reformulated the paragraph on the option ->SD-> as clear as I could in my limited English, see below. But it is impossible to mention l possible obstacles. E.g., if your 49+ is in very low memory condition, the process of saving l ports in one keystroke on the card may be aborted despite of keeping the temporary memory as sm l as possible. http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/~raut/WR49/index.htm#Gener ==== >> After inst ling the latest Filer5 with the ->SD-> command with >> auatic save, I find it not so easy to see wch port is supposed to >> contain items. >> I tried selecting items to copy to a port, but the copy command >> doesn't seem to support a subdir for destination? >> B WR, your programs are the most useful I've inst led on the 49g+ >> by far. Beither COPY nor ->SD-> preserve the directory structure on the card. >But the structure should be ined in back tranfer. Observe the >following essenti difference beeen COPY and ->SD->: The former may >overwrite equ ly named backup objects, the latter does never. I >reformulated the paragraph on the option ->SD-> as clear as I could in >my limited English, see below. But it is impossible to mention l >possible obstacles. E.g., if your 49+ is in very low memory condition, >the process of saving l ports in one keystroke on the card may be >aborted despite of keeping the temporary memory as sm l as possible. http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/~raut/WR49/index.htm#Gener I don't tnk we're communicating yet. When I want to use ->SD-> to restore from an SD card back to a port, how do I know what port each object will be returned to? Is it ways returned to the origin port? If I store other objects on the SD card, how can I differentiate the ->SD-> backups from my other objects? What I was suggesting is that ->SD-> should create directories Port1 and Port2 on the SD Card to represent the source port for objects it copies to the SD card. That will make clear what does not need to be restor where objects will be restor and give a method for restoring l objects to a port - ghlight the directory and then do ->SD->. ==== Is it possible to manipulate the IR port with relative precision using UserRPL? I'd like to make little programs for motion detection, auatic detection of other c culators, and stuff like that, but I haven't found *any* documentation for using the IR port in UserRPL, only in assembly. Any ideas? ==== > I want see like ts, 123,456.1235 for the number 123,456.12345 though people who c l themself cacao or so should rather be > ignor ts question is raised over and over again. There is no > built-in tool displaying large re s in the pattern you like. But it > wouldn't be a big de for the developers to adapt flag -79 (textbook). > Textbook need only look at single re s in level 1 and modify the > grapc display of level 1 in a way that, e.g., 123456.789 is seen as > 123,456.789 Clearly, ts slows down the default stack view. But I guess the 49+ is > fast enough to sw low ts addition task without sach-ache... > Wolfgang, there's no need to fix FIX, but I guess that you might want STD (+ENG+SCI) to show , like FIX? ==== Is there a program for the 48g that makes the c c a number pad for a computer? YES!! If you use Windows, go to control panel/accessibility options. Then go > to the Gener Tab, and put a check mark in the box that says Support > Seri Key Devices. Set you baud rate and com port in the box that says > settings. Then t the button for Apply. > On your hp, you need a little program that sends line one of the stack > out the seri port. You program could be << STR-> XMIT DROP >>. I > recomend assigning ts little program to a sfted ENTER. That way > you can perform your c cs on the hp, and then send your answers to > whatever Windows application that is current. Ts is quite a handy > tng. I have used ts method with my hp's connected to survey > instruments, then flick a switchbox, and data streams to my Autocad > application, creating 3d models of structures in re time. > There is no limit to what the imagination can aceve!! Ts is an excellent idea, I must however correct one little nit; the program should be: << ->STR XMIT DROP >> ==== > Strangely, 4 ENTER 2 - doesn't yield 1+1 but rather 2. Maybe it only > simplifies in certain cases... 4 ENTER 2 - Creates an object of the integer(type #28) type wch are auatic ly simplified. If you type in: RPN: X ENTER 1 + 1 - gebraic: 'x+1-1' You will notice that ts is not auatic ly simplified because it is an gebraic(type #9) object and thus you need to press the EV key to simplified it. ==== >> Strangely, 4 ENTER 2 - doesn't yield 1+1 but rather 2. Maybe it only >> simplifies in certain cases... 4 ENTER 2 - Creates an object of the integer(type #28) type wch are >auatic ly simplified. If you type in: >RPN: X ENTER 1 + 1 - > gebraic: 'x+1-1' >You will notice that ts is not auatic ly simplified because it >is an gebraic(type #9) object and thus you need to press the EV >key to simplified it. So the 49g/+ does auatic ly simplify some objects and not others. Let's hear it for hobgoblins! ==== > I wonder if anyone of you folks knows how to assign a key click sound > to the hp 48gx. I used to have a 49G and liked that feature. But for a > person reason i went back to my dear 48gx. But, I re ize now that i > miss that option. > Have you got any ideas? Glaf you asked (-; 1) Load WR's KEYMAN48 2) Make a short program at HOME: << 400 .01 BEEP >> 'CLICK' STO 3) Assign *every* key using WR to their Default/Your_user_operation and have ts key click as the first operation on those assignments Merry Chrsitmas and a very long New Year !! ==== Is there a program for the 48g that makes the c c a number pad for a computer? YES!! If you use Windows, go to control panel/accessibility options. Then go > to the Gener Tab, and put a check mark in the box that says Support > Seri Key Devices. Set you baud rate and com port in the box that says > settings. Then t the button for Apply. > On your hp, you need a little program that sends line one of the stack > out the seri port. You program could be << STR-> XMIT DROP >>. I > recomend assigning ts little program to a sfted ENTER. That way > you can perform your c cs on the hp, and then send your answers to > whatever Windows application that is current. Ts is quite a handy > tng. I have used ts method with my hp's connected to survey > instruments, then flick a switchbox, and data streams to my Autocad > application, creating 3d models of structures in re time. > There is no limit to what the imagination can aceve!! ts is cool, but there seems to be no USB support (49g+, Windows XP) ==== Recently I found on ts newsgroup a command CLVAR supposed to delete l variables in one shot. l I get from it is an error message Non-empty directory, even if I run it with a just resetted c c (F1+F6+ON) Can someone explain how to put ts command at work ? (It does not exist in the doc, nor in the HELP, nor in the CASCMD...) ==== > Recently I found on ts newsgroup a command CLVAR supposed to delete l > variables in one shot. > l I get from it is an error message Non-empty directory, even if I run > it with a just resetted c c (F1+F6+ON) It only cleara variables, not directories (unless they are empty) You may prefer using the Filer instead...maybe using |SORT| by Type and selecting l but the directories and then Deleteing them (answer L) OR You could say VARS PURGE ==== How do you get the rom image onto the SD card? The only downloads I can > find are compressed in a .exe format. At www.kyz.uklinux.net/cabextract.php3 you will find a tool c led cabextract, wch enables decompressing the rom-images. ==== You are correct, ts is not a c culator as you, and I, would tnk of. However, most l functions are available - just not in one place. The days of carrying around ten different technologies are numbered. My cell phone takes pictures!!! My dream macne is ever so close...it just needs the c culation oomph to be provided. If HP offered their 'p m type' products with a 49G+ add-on - it would sweep the streets. If they were smart, they would make it available for l handhelp platforms. Imagine, a P m Tungsten T3 with 49G+ capability!!! I believe the day will come. It has to. A new world is before us and the products are being developed as we speak. HP got their ass's kicked by TI in the college forum. They deserved it. New tnking is needed for a new age!!! Ten years from now, students, profession engineers and l others will reach for sometng like my dream macne. I just bought a 49G+. I will buy a P m Tungsten T3 ts week. I will will have l I want to-day but will f l short of what I want when I buy it. Just like a 49G+ to-day!!! Hence the T3. One tng is for certain... companies will have to work hard to be sucessful. I don't tnk HP will be one of them....sorry HP, as a passionate user of your products, I need to express my frustration..... Ed > Wow! I'd not be used to a macne like that for it's portable to boot! > It used to be that you'd have a (HP) programmable/scientific c c, a > pocket c endar/planner/phone list (the paper kind), a wrisatch > (usu ly digit with arms, stopwatch, etc. capabilities), and a > pencil and pad to write down the programs for your c c in case the > batteries died or some other power mishap wiped the memory. Cell phones > did not exist yet in sm l sizes nor for us po' folks. The macne doing what you ask for would be one dream macne. The only > tngs I could add would be that it sports so a 455.4 cu. in. under > the battery compartment and y be on the other end to beam me up > when I run out of -test or when the radar detector goes off. But seriously, what would you categorize your dream device as? I might > hesitate to consider it a c culator anymore. If you hooked a mass spec > or gc or diffraceter to it, you could c l it a tricorder, if HP > won't scrimp on RAM or create fast access to a SD port. I somewhat agree that the gh end c culator as we know it is on the > way out. > However, there will ways be a need for such a device. Therefore, I > believe that the market will strive to ultimately get to a single > device that does it l - full PDA function ity and gh end > c culation ability. I currently use a 49G+, 49G, 48SX, 28S, sever laptops, sever > desktops, multiple sofare (Mathematica, Mathcad, Matlab, TK Solver > (a favorite of mine) and others), P m (you name it), Blackberry etc. For me, a perfect device would have the following as a minimum: 1. 200LX size and design > 2. Large, color, touch sensitive screen with LOTS of pixels. > 3. Has HP legacy keys - NOT the crap being produced to-day. > 4. Has L 49G+ capability + some serious solver functions (aka > Mathematica and TK solver). > 5. Runs MS office (not the diluted version) > 6. Takes Memory ca like compact flash > 7. Wireless communication inc Internet and Outlook functions > 8. Synchs to desktop. > There's more, but ts would hook me. > Some PDA's are coming close but still fail in the serious c culator > market. >