A199 Subject: Re: Passing Parameters to an HP-BASIC program? > but now I want to create a trd loc variable cled Z. In UserRPL, I can > put 0 on the stack and create a loc variable, Z, that the user doesn't > have to put on the stack manuly before the program starts: > << 0 -> X Y Z << X Y + Z STO 5 Z + >> > << 0 -> X Y Z << X + Y STO Z 5 + Z >> > The above gives a Syntax error. So How would I do it? (in G mode, using HP BASIC) === Subject: Re: Passing Parameters to an HP-BASIC program? but now I want to create a trd loc variable cled Z. In UserRPL, I > can put 0 on the stack and create a loc variable, Z, that the user doesn't have to put on the stack manuly before the program starts: > << 0 -> X Y Z << X Y + Z STO 5 Z + >> > << 0 -> X Y Z << X + Y STO Z 5 + Z >> The above gives a Syntax error. So How would I do it? (in G mode, using > HP BASIC) > << 0 -> X Y Z << X + Y 5 + >> > or even << -> X Y << X Y 5 + >> > Why create a useless loc variable? === Subject: Re: Passing Parameters to an HP-BASIC program? > << 0 -> X Y Z << X + Y STO Z 5 + Z >> The above gives a Syntax error. So How would I do it? (in G mode, using > HP BASIC) > > << 0 -> X Y Z << X + Y 5 + >> > Ts gives a Syntax error at the first Y and the trailing + wouldn't work anyway. > or even > << -> X Y << X Y 5 + >> > Ts isn't even in HP BASIC nor does it create a trd loc variable, Z. > Why create a useless loc variable? Ts is just a simple example. In larger programs, you can save a lot of space by creating many loc variables and not having to PURGE them before the program ends. I still have yet to see a working example in G mode using HP BASIC rather than UserRPL. === Subject: Re: Passing Parameters to an HP-BASIC program? << 0 -> X Y Z << X + Y STO Z 5 + Z >> > XWhy create a useless loc variable? > Ts is just a simple example. In larger programs, you can save a lot of > space by creating many loc variables and not having to PURGE them before > the program ends. I still have yet to see a working example in G mode > using HP BASIC rather than UserRPL. > << -> X Y << X+Y -> Z << Z+5 >> >> > === Subject: Re: Passing Parameters to an HP-BASIC program? > Ts is just a simple example. In larger programs, you can save a lot of > space by creating many loc variables and not having to PURGE them before > the program ends. I still have yet to see a working example in G mode > using HP BASIC rather than UserRPL. > > << -> X Y << X+Y -> Z << Z+5 >> >> === Subject: Re: Transferring ASCII files to the PC , here you can find an example of how to tk to a USB controller in Windows(look in programming). http://www.delcom-eng.com/downloads/USBVIDM.pdf before, i meant that with perl (active-perl) you can write PC programs (auatize) as opposed to use a termin (where you need to be present). in perl it only takes about 5 short lines and you are tking PC to cculator (using the com port). it would be good for sml projects and i though that was what you were after. >>Does anyone know of a way to make a USB port appear as a COM port so >>HyperTermin and other software that works with COM ports will work >>with the 49g+ USB? > do you mean, how can you tk to the usb controller in the cc? maybe > they put a DLL somewhere (so that an application can tk with the usb > controller) with linker files (like in c or visu basic) but i'am not > sure. > Well, sometng that would work with the XMIT and SRECV commands, and capture text sent by XMIT or the various printing commands. Conn4x > apparently captures the output of PRLCD for screen capture, and > detects the output of the other commands and reports an error. > PS: if you want to write programs using th norm com-port, the > easiest way is to use perl. that is, to tk to the old hp49g/hp48, > use perl. > Oh, using the 49G or 48 series seri port is very easy. I can do that > with any other 48 series or 49G or HyperTermin. No problem there, > but the only MS Windows application I know of that can communicate (at > least, via USB) with the 49g+ is Conn4x. Conn4x is impressive indeed, > but it doesn't seem to do quite *everytng* I'd like to try. === Subject: Grapng cculators for statistics I'm tnking of purchasing an HP-39G or a TI-83+ for studying statistics on my own. though TI-83+ is far more popular, but HP-39G is 2x less expensive. Wch one is better from functionity dpoint? === Subject: Re: Grapng cculators for statistics >I'm tnking of purchasing an HP-39G or a TI-83+ for studying statistics on >my own. though TI-83+ is far more popular, but HP-39G is 2x less >expensive. Wch one is better from functionity dpoint? With my statpack for the 39G, it is. With that instled, it has most everytng the 83 does (the few tngs it doesn't is tiny tngs like the ability to choose between a modified box plot, or dard box plot), besides adding a lot of tngs it doesn't have! It includes everytng the 83 has wle the built in stat stuff is rely quick and easy. The probability testing and hypothesis testing is much quicker than on the 83. I'd go for the 39g+ (if you are buying ts to be used later on in gh school, a g+ would be a good choice, if you are a porfession wanting to learn about statistics, a 39g old style would be about 20 $ or so on ebay, someone might even give you one if you asked nicely! It worked for me once. . . picked up a 40G to play with =) The user interface on the 39 is rely far superior. It makes cculations much easier and quicker. The on-cc programming capability is the only rely lacking. It is not even close to par. . http://www.hp.com/cculators/grapng/39gplus/educators.html open the statistics tutori http://www.hpcc.org/details.php?id=4908 My stat program. http://www.hpcc.org/details.php?id=4755 My detailed comparison between 83+ and 39g. The 39g+ is identic except for an addition financi aplet, and more speed. (and a little less memory) TW timwessman@yahoo.com (bring it on spammers!=) === Subject: Re: Grapng cculators for statistics X > The 39g+ is identic > except for an addition financi aplet, and more speed. (and a > little less memory) You mean that the ARM Saturn emulation does not cut 128KB off? Can you tell more about the 39g+ ?? 75MHz? but what are the re-life speed differences? === Subject: Re: Grapng cculators for statistics >You mean that the ARM Saturn emulation does not cut 128KB off? >Can you tell more about the 39g+ ?? >75MHz? but what are the re-life speed differences? I don't have one yet so I can't rely say. Plan to get one sometime. The online stats say about ~202 K or sometng (from memory) Colin Croft knows more. . . I tnk I read sometng about 2 times increase in plotting (and the old 39g was the fastest plotter availible even more than the 83). I'd guess the slow menus are inatneuos and the stack responds equ to the improvement from 49g -> g+. TW timwessman@yahoo.com (bring it on spammers!=) === Subject: Re: HP49G+ Derivative , I am glad to see that there are not only speciists on ts forum. Well, here is the answer to your problem. After you derive f(x) you get a huge equation as you mentioned, then you expand (ts step is cruci)and only after that you collect (it's a gener rule in fact first EXPAND and even TEXPAND then COLLECT). The answer I obtain is 2^6/(X-2)^5 Hope it serves you well Bye === Subject: Re: HP49G+ Derivative > , > I am glad to see that there are not only speciists on ts forum. > Well, here is the answer to your problem. > After you derive f(x) you get a huge equation as you mentioned, then > you expand (ts step is cruci)and only after that you collect (it's > a gener rule in fact first EXPAND and even TEXPAND then COLLECT). > The answer I obtain is 2^6/(X-2)^5 > Hope it serves you well > Bye right.. for some reason, it didn't work.. then i resetted my cc.. cleared the memory and now it works.. l the methods mentioned above worked.. why would that be the reason? i changed it to exact mode and it didn't work still.. === Subject: Re: HP49G+ Derivative There are so many different setups for the 49 that it is hard to guess your problem. If you managed to do it after resetting your cc, reset it before you want to do ts. === Subject: Re: HP49G+ Derivative > There are so many different setups for the 49 that it is hard to guess your > problem. If you managed to do it after resetting your cc, reset it before > you want to do ts. CASCFG resets the CAS === Subject: Re: HP49G+ Derivative > Sorry, i just recently got my HP49g+ so still working with the > functions.. can anyone help me out? > i was trying to take the derivative with respect to x for ts > equation but i can't seem to get the answer i want. > F(x) = 1-16/(x-2)^4 > the answer should be > f(x) = 64/(x-2)^5 When I used 2: '1-16/(x-2)^4' 1: 'x' DERIV I got a long equation. When I used 1: '1-16/(x-2)^4' DERVX I got 2^6 --------- (x-2)^5 === Subject: Re: HP49G+ Derivative > Sorry, i just recently got my HP49g+ so still working with the > functions.. can anyone help me out? > i was trying to take the derivative with respect to x for ts > equation but i can't seem to get the answer i want. > F(x) = 1-16/(x-2)^4 > the answer should be > f(x) = 64/(x-2)^5 > it's pretty easy to do by hand i know, but i wanna be able to do it on > my hp to check if i'm right. I performed ts derivative in the EQW > menu but i kept getting a huge equation. I tried pressing SIMP but > The problem is that it has multiplied out (x-2)^5. Ppossible solutions: Editing it in Equationwriter: select the denominator and factor, then exit Equationwruter with ENTER ternately do the following: EQ-> @ to split the equation into left and right sides FACTOR @ to get the right hand side factored = @ to put the equation back together The result will be 'd1F(x)=2^6/(x-2)^5' === Subject: Re: HP49G+ battery drain > I have measured drain on batteries on HP49G+ > OFF 10uA > ON 12.5mA > Running 79mA > Average kine battery has capacity about 1000mA hours > Ts gives about 80 hours of ON time or > about 12.5 hour of running time. I've been planning to bring up such stats, but need to wait until I have access to a better meter. Did your measurements fluctuate much? My early CN3340... and replacement CN4020... don't show a noticeable difference between the two. === Subject: Re: HP-49G+ emulator, any chances for any? > Example (just verified by Prange on my request on the HP49G). > :: IsBigApple_ ; yields TRUE on the 49+. According to Carsten's entry > table it should yield FSE on devices like the 49. But if executed on > the 49 you are in serious troubles... > What surprises me about your IsBigApple_ instruction is that it is > supposed to distinguish between the 49G and the 49g+, for ince. > AND the instruction is supposed to run on the 49G as well as on the > 49g+, wch is puzzling, since how do you want to make a function > yield FSE on the 49G when the 49g+ didn't exist ? > In other word, I doubt the SysRPL entry you cl IsBigApple_ has been > implemented on the 49G, wch is corroborated by the fact it crashes > V'ger. if you check out http://zon.wins.uva.nl/~dominik/hpcc/entries/hp49g/entries_297.html#SEC297 you will notice that it says First available in ROM 1.22 for the IsBigApple and related entries. So ts instruction will distinguish between 49G and 49g+ if that ROM or a later version is instled. The reason for the confusion is that if you look at the ROM for the HP49g+, it looks as if it has been written in a way that the same code can run on a 49G. For example, routines wch display in the new extended header first check for the presence of the new header etc. Has anyone checked if the ROM distributed with the LGPL version of the CAS does include these entries or not? If it is not, the following code runs on the 49G and on the 49g+ and distinguishes both cculators. It returns TRUE on the 49g+, FSE on the 49G. Both Nosy 4.1 and UTool 2.10 use ts to adjust the scrolling speed on both cculators. CODE BUSCC !!!! on the HP49G write instead: $80B HST=01 ?HST=01 {} GOVLNG PushF/TLoop ENDCODE Note that in the first line, BUSCC only works with MASD on the 49g+, on the 49G you need to write $80B instead. === Subject: Re: HP-49G+ emulator, any chances for any? On my 49G with ROM1.24, I get: IsApple -> FSE IsMidApple -> FSE IsBigApple -> FSE Save16Patch -> GROB containing the Header Rest16Patch -> Displays the argument GROB as the header However, it does not like the flashpointers and errors when it gets there. === Subject: Re: HP-49G+ emulator, any chances for any? > On my 49G with ROM1.24, I get: > IsApple -> FSE > IsMidApple -> FSE > IsBigApple -> FSE > Save16Patch -> GROB containing the Header > Rest16Patch -> Displays the argument GROB as the header > However, it does not like the flashpointers and errors when it gets there. OK, I'll put that into the docs. === Subject: Re: HP-49G+ emulator, any chances for any? BTW Carsten you might so have a look at : 30E79 %REC>%POL ( %r %ang -> %x %y ) 30EA6 %POL>%REC ( %x %y -> %r %ang ) > On my 49G with ROM1.24, I get: > IsApple -> FSE > IsMidApple -> FSE > IsBigApple -> FSE > Save16Patch -> GROB containing the Header > Rest16Patch -> Displays the argument GROB as the header > However, it does not like the flashpointers and errors when it gets there. > OK, I'll put that into the docs. > === Subject: Re: HP-49G+ emulator, any chances for any? > BTW Carsten you might so have a look at : > 30E79 %REC>%POL ( %r %ang -> %x %y ) > 30EA6 %POL>%REC ( %x %y -> %r %ang ) So there they are!! On my 49G with ROM1.24, I get: > IsApple -> FSE IsMidApple -> FSE IsBigApple -> FSE Save16Patch -> GROB containing the Header Rest16Patch -> Displays the argument GROB as the header > However, it does not like the flashpointers and errors when it gets > there. > > OK, I'll put that into the docs. I guess the code is for the 48gII and 49g+ separation (and possibly for the 39g+, too) They both use ARM-Saturn emulator and have the new ROM wch should not be 49G compatible as is. === Subject: Hp 33s delay order Just got a disturbing phone cl from a loc HP cculator deer stating that the new HP-33S won't be out and available until some time after the summer. I've placed an order of 16 of them for a student program. Does any one have more details on ts issue? Will ts delay be due to the series of screw-ups in the software design? === Subject: Re: Hp 33s delay order Interesting, I got mine about a week ago. Maybe your seller is making a quick buck selling them to PE candidates. -jgs > Just got a disturbing phone cl from a loc HP cculator deer > stating that the new HP-33S won't be out and available until some time > after the summer. I've placed an order of 16 of them for a student > program. Does any one have more details on ts issue? Will ts delay > be due to the series of screw-ups in the software design? === Subject: STO/RCL in hp48 vs. old hp41C Due to the need for a cculator that handles matrices (with complex numbers), I've just started to use my 6-7 year old hp48 rather than my 22 year old 41C. When I bought the 48, I was surprised that it took 7 keys (' A STO A ) to store a vue and get it back to stack level 1, when it was just 2 keys (STO ) on the 41C. Thus, I kept on using the 41 until recently. So, the question is: Is there an easier way to STO vues? Maybe some sml helper app somewhere? (The VAR button isn't helpful for ts, since it shows what's most recently created, wch mostly are programs rather than variables.) And yes: I've tried to trade my 48+ for a 42S, but nobody wanted to swap... cul8r /J.9arn - RPN fanatic === Subject: Re: STO/RCL in hp48 vs. old hp41C - solution > So, the question is: Is there an easier way to STO vues? Maybe some sml > helper app somewhere? way of doing ts, but since my manu says most notng about programming, except referring to an Advanced User's Reference that's no longer sold, neither available for download, ts will have to do. Usage: assign the STOR and RECL programs to some keys or a cus menu, then press [STOR key] followed by any key to store a vue, or [RECL key] and the same key to recl it. The vues are stored in variables named RGxx, where xx is the key code for the key you pressed after [STOR key]. STOR: << -> x << rclf RG 0 wait floor std + @ RG @ 'RG' x swap sto @ store in RG @ 'RG' swap stof @ restore format rcl @ recl RG In VAR, [LS] [Fx] stores the object on level in the variables located above > [Fx] The problem with VAR is that programs end up there too, leaving just one or two variables, so it's no very useful. > And if you [ENTER] before you sotre the variable, you still have it on the > stack after. Ooops - I should have thought of that one. cul8r /J.9arn === Subject: Re: STO/RCL in hp48 vs. old hp41C > In VAR, [LS] [Fx] stores the object on level in the variables located > above > [Fx] > The problem with VAR is that programs end up there too, leaving just one or > two variables, so it's no very useful. > And if you [ENTER] before you sotre the variable, you still have it on the > stack after. > Ooops - I should have thought of that one. CRDIR makes directories for your variables You may have a CST (cus) MENU for programs you need Please, read the manus throughoutly and experiment OR use Google to search ts newsgroup in the past OR just ask again for more detailed instructions (just descibe what you need) === Subject: Re: STO/RCL in hp48 vs. old hp41C In VAR, [LS] [Fx] stores the object on level in the variables located > above [Fx] > The problem with VAR is that programs end up there too, leaving just one > or > two variables, so it's no very useful. And if you [ENTER] before you sotre the variable, you still have it on > the stack after. > Ooops - I should have thought of that one. > CRDIR makes directories for your variables ...making the whole process even more keyboard intensive, wch is the exact opposite of what I wanted to aceve. > You may have a CST (cus) MENU for programs you need Yes, I know. That doesn't have anytng to do with my question. > Please, read the manus throughoutly and experiment > OR > use Google to search ts newsgroup in the past > OR > just ask again for more detailed instructions > (just descibe what you need) > Did l that before posting. cul8r /J.9arn === Subject: Re: STO/RCL in hp48 vs. old hp41C >> CRDIR makes directories for your variables >...making the whole process even more keyboard intensive, wch is the exact >opposite of what I wanted to aceve. I don't tnk so. If you like using the same variables as you would on your '41 then you can make a cus menu like: { { A { << 'A' STO >> << A >> } } { B { << 'B' STO >> << B >> } } ... } That way after you t CST you can use the menu keys to store into variables 'A' to 'F' and the sfted menu keys to recl items. -- john R. Lata jrlata@golden.net === Subject: Re: About HP-48 and Casio classpad 300. X > As I recl (see previous warning ), he was not > at l pleased with the display. > Cordily, > Richard Kanarek > P.S. Note to Nousiainen: According to the photo I saw, the > Classpad has at least 30 keys, not counting the cursor movement pad. X I have tried the CC 300 at a bookstore, the keys do well when they are enough unfortunately the pen input is needed and it slows me down considerably. I tnk it.8as great for exploring, but not for exams where the situation is stressful. As ways: ** TRY BEFORE BUY! ** The display is good enough in bookstore fluorecent lightning === Subject: Re: Does 49g+ actuly use parity settings? the Parity is implemented in the HP saturn based ROM, and is used by l the seri commands (such as XMIT, SRECV and the kermit commands). ts means taht through the data is CRC protected on the layer 2 and 3 of the underlying protocols, the ccutor still implements and uses (if configured that way) the parity. > Does anyone know whether the parity parameter in IOPAR on the 49g+ > actuly does anytng? > For USB, I very much doubt that parity would ever be used. After l, > CRC has been built into that dard from the start. But perhaps the > parity setting in IOPAR might be used for sometng else when using > USB? > What about with IrDA communications? Is parity ever used there? > Perhaps wle establisng the initi connection? > -- > === Subject: Re: XSERV documentation? client sends 1 chr command (followed by more data eventuly) G: get file (followed by file name command packet). Cculator answers by sending the file through XSEND P: put file (followed by the file name). ccutor answers by starting XRECV Q: quit L: get list of files in current directory (cculator returs data in command packet format) M: get free memory (cculator returs data in command packet format) E: execute command line (followed by a string) cculator does STR-> on the string V: return version number in command packet l: list l files in cculator (ccutor sends data in command packet format) the command packet format is: Ssdddd.....ddddC where: S is bit 15-8 of the data size in bytes s is bit 7 to 0 of the data size in bytes dddd...dd is the data C is the checksum (sum of l the data mod 8) the other side is usposed to answer to such a packet with an ACK. If not, (other chr or timeout) the packet will be resent up to 10 times. data is transmited in 8 bit mode, no parity, no flow control as for the non dard xmodem mode, the hp does not implemetn XMODEM CRC, (because cculating the dard xmodem CRC would be slow), but it implements the HPcrc (dard kermit CRC), and uses the same trick that XMODEM 1K and CRC (sending a C instead of a NAK to start transmision), except that it uses the D chr instead. After 5 tries (I beleive) in HPCRC. it will revert to dard XMODEM 128 CHK mode.. I do not remember exactly the format for the directory listing, but I tnk it's of the form: 2 nib size name n bytes: file name 4 nib: prolog 6 nib: file size 4 nib: crc file name size of 0 marks the end of the list for the full file listing, after an object of type directory, the same structure restarts, with a 0 lenght name to end the directory. > Unfortunately, I have. Most pages just repeat the same info that's in > the AUG. Knowing that P is the command to put a file to the cculator > is great, but it would be nice to know what the arguments are and what > the packet is supposed to look like that contains the arguments. > For example, the M and L commands are effectively 1 byte commands - > you transmit the character and you get a response. But how do you format > a command line you want executed? With the L command, the cculator > sends the same information over and over - maybe 10 times - before it > stops. Why? Dunno. > It's a little frustrating because, for example, even though it's cled XMODEM SERVER the HP version does not implement the dard XMODEM > protocol - it uses a different checksum formula and a different NAK > character, for example. Another example is that Conn4x appears to be > able to get XSERV to do kermit style ASCII conversions, but the method > doesn't seem to be documented. > Don't get me wrong - I've made some good progress here, I've got a Mac > program that can tk to XSEND and XRECV, passing binary files back and > forth. I'd like to be able to go for that fin yard, though, and gain > the ability to edit RPL on the Mac without using those excellent SD card === Subject: RPN/RPL Cculator implementations, list of, regular post [long, FAQ] Supersedes: <402da67f$0$160$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com Posting-Frequency: bi-monthly URL: http://www.finseth.com/rpnrpl.html Copyright: 2002-4 by Craig A. Finseth Arcve-name: computer/handhelds/rpn-rpl Disclaimer: Approv for *.answers is based on form, not content. RPN/RPL Implementations Document id RPN/RPL Implementations http://www.finseth.com/rpnrpl.html reposted about every 2 months Contact: Craig A. Finseth The batteries have been dead for around 10 days. Tried putting kines in > (London Drugs store brand), won't work. Tried Energizer NiMH+ batteries, have their own batteries, but that shouldn't make any difference here). It's not unusu for HP cculators to lock up when batteries go dead. Have you tried the paper clip reset (so known as rubber-foot reset)? In case you don't know how: (1) Make sure fresh batteries are instled. (2) Turn the cculator face down with the battery compartment at rubber foot. (It's just a plug that fills a rather deep hole, and it's just pressed in, not glued in, so it should be easy to pry it out with your fingernail.) At the bot of the hole you should see another sml hole with an R (for Reset) next to it. (Actuly, *l* the rubber feet have these little holes under them but only one has an R next to it. On l the cculators I've seen the reset hole is under the top-right foot.) (3) Stick the end of a paper clip in the hole until it reaches the bot, then press gently (you may feel it give a little) and remove the paper clip. If notng happens in 10 or 15 seconds, then try turning the cculator on again. Ts usuly brings a 48 back to life from a dead-battery lockup. It should not clear the memory, though it may ready have been cleared due to having no source of electricity to maintain it for so long. -- Wayne Brown (HPCC #1104) | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock === Subject: Re: NCEES bans certain cculators from test sites X-NewsReader: GRn 3.2n February 9, 1999 > but that is still no excuse, in ts modern > day and age of tnking that slide rule accuracy is close enough. It isn't > and hasn't been for sever decades now. It's cled optimization of design. > There is no way in hell any engineer can economicly and safely optimize > the design of any subti modern engineering endeaver with the speed and > accuracy of a slide rule. But when it comes time for the rubber to meet the road, in many fields you will be selecting dard components. It does you no good to know that you have a 4.268094 ton A/C load when l you can get is 2-1/2 and 5 ton units. Many passive electronic components are +/- 10%. Unless you have an extremely large project, you aren't going to be able to readily get an 8.3962 inch steel I beam. In other words, using sopositicated and expensive tools to compute vues to 16 decim places is a waste of time if the result has to be rounded to the next gher 1- or 2- place vue. Even sliderule accuracy can be overkill... > As far as your > engineering friends who use slide rules every day, well l I can say it > that they can't be working anytng very sopsticated or critic to public > safety, the environment or economics. In the world of economics, it's unusu to have any faith in the first digit of an answer, much less anytng beyond that. > I'm curious. Does the state you cl yourself an engineer in recognize you > as an engineer? If they don't perhaps l you are spouting about the NCEES > test and slide rules is notng more than sour grapes. And I've seen registered PEs venting long and loud about the evils of the metric system and how the conversion of units for land surveys would result in unacceptable errors. Then I noticed he was using the wrong conversion factor! === Subject: Re: NCEES bans certain cculators from test sites > And I've seen registered PEs venting long and loud about > the evils of the metric system and how the conversion of > units for land surveys would result in unacceptable errors. > Then I noticed he was using the wrong conversion factor! Yeap, I agree with you. Too many of similar incidents goes on yet, we l are so proud of that little piece of paper that in times is being granted to anyone and everyone who can sit down for 8 hours and pass a test. I guess that's one factor everyone is underpaid in ts profession. Once, there was a registered PE functioning as civil dept. manager in Boulder, CO, who designed a detention pond with elevation of water surface gher at one end of the pond than the other end defying the BASIC laws of physics. Once, there was a registered PE working as a project manager in Irvine, Ca, who designed retaining wls with #3 rebars at 24 o.c. Once, there was a registered PE working as a project manager in Irvine, Ca, and I had to correlate and explain the concept of my drainage pattern since she lacked wit to underd even though the rim elevation of a bowl may remain cont, gravity will direct l drainage to the bot of the bowl. Once, there were sever registered PE's working at the City of Santa Ana, public works dept., who misgraded applicants exam because: 1) The applicants answers for example indicated 13 degrees, 30 min. and the engineers' cheat sheet reflected the correct answer as 13.5 degrees 2) The applicants answers for example indicated the volume of cut/fill in cubic yards, wch is in compliance with the dards of industry and the engineers' cheat sheet reflected the correct answer in cubic feet. The dimwits did not even take time to convert the units to see if the applicants had the correct answer. I had drafters and designers without a license or a degree who used to catch insulting mistakes made by registered PE's on regular basis. Just because one passes a mere test and gets a piece of paper, does not mean they know what they're doing even if they have the required 4 years of experience as needed by the boards or run a super-computer to get the answers. Hell, they thought Coco the Gorilla to use sign language to communicate so, getting answers based on inputting information, NOT A BIG DE. I personly tnk the boards should declassify a lot of pertinent information. First, declassify how many attempts it took for anyone to pass their test. Second, let us know who their references are so we can check and see how many attempts it took the references to pass the test. Make it mandatory for EVERYONE to take a mini-test, pertinent to what their specity is, every 4 years in order to renew their licenses,...and the list goes on and on CMC === Subject: Re: NCEES bans certain cculators from test sites Where do I sign up! I wanna join your club! Roger W Guinn, Practicing Engineer! (Someday I'll not need practice!) >>And I've seen registered PEs venting long and loud about >>the evils of the metric system and how the conversion of >>units for land surveys would result in unacceptable errors. >>Then I noticed he was using the wrong conversion factor! > Yeap, I agree with you. Too many of similar incidents goes on yet, we > l are so proud of that little piece of paper that in times is being > granted to anyone and everyone who can sit down for 8 hours and pass a > test. I guess that's one factor everyone is underpaid in ts > profession. > Once, there was a registered PE functioning as civil dept. manager in > Boulder, CO, who designed a detention pond with elevation of water > surface gher at one end of the pond than the other end defying the > BASIC laws of physics. > Once, there was a registered PE working as a project manager in > Irvine, Ca, who designed retaining wls with #3 rebars at 24 o.c. > Once, there was a registered PE working as a project manager in > Irvine, Ca, and I had to correlate and explain the concept of my > drainage pattern since she lacked wit to underd even though the > rim elevation of a bowl may remain cont, gravity will direct l > drainage to the bot of the bowl. > Once, there were sever registered PE's working at the City of Santa > Ana, public works dept., who misgraded applicants exam because: > 1) The applicants answers for example indicated 13 degrees, 30 min. > and the engineers' cheat sheet reflected the correct answer as 13.5 > degrees > 2) The applicants answers for example indicated the volume of cut/fill > in cubic yards, wch is in compliance with the dards of industry > and the engineers' cheat sheet reflected the correct answer in cubic > feet. The dimwits did not even take time to convert the units to see > if the applicants had the correct answer. > I had drafters and designers without a license or a degree who used to > catch insulting mistakes made by registered PE's on regular basis. > Just because one passes a mere test and gets a piece of paper, does > not mean they know what they're doing even if they have the required 4 > years of experience as needed by the boards or run a super-computer to > get the answers. Hell, they thought Coco the Gorilla to use sign > language to communicate so, getting answers based on inputting > information, NOT A BIG DE. I personly tnk the boards should > declassify a lot of pertinent information. First, declassify how many > attempts it took for anyone to pass their test. Second, let us know > who their references are so we can check and see how many attempts it > took the references to pass the test. Make it mandatory for EVERYONE > to take a mini-test, pertinent to what their specity is, every 4 > years in order to renew their licenses,...and the list goes on and on > CMC === Subject: Re: NCEES bans certain cculators from test sites In infinite wisdom Everett M. Greene answered: [...] >>As far as your >>engineering friends who use slide rules every day, well l I can say it >>that they can't be working anytng very sopsticated or critic to public >>safety, the environment or economics. > In the world of economics, it's unusu to have any faith > in the first digit of an answer, much less anytng > beyond that. Economics must be great work, if you can sach it. It's the only field where you can get everytng wrong for your entire profession carreer, and still get paid. And should you actuly happen to get sometng right, you get a Nobel prize. Rich === Subject: Re: NCEES bans certain cculators from test sites > I DO NOT TNK SO. >> I see most of my engineering students in Physics in their sophomore >> year in 200 level courses; electricity & magnetism, optics and Modern >> Physics Ts is after the have supposedly had two 100 level >> Engineering courses, so I do not tnk that l the blame is to be >> laid upon me. In fact they use a Physics text for Engineering 103 and >> 104. >> After l that I still get questions on how many significant figures >> they need to keep in their results as well as numbers like >> 3.4569879877 instead of 3.46 Dept,Of Physics,Geology & Astronomy >> U.T.Chattanooga >> Room 318 Grote Hl >> 615 McClie Ave >> Chattanooga TN 37403 >> 423-425-4546 >What 100 level courses might those be? Engr 103? Engr 104? Those are >the FIRST courses any prospective engineering student might take at UT >Chattanooga that have ENGR in front of them. If you look carefully you >will find that the ONLY pre-requisites are cculus and math majors do >not do order of magnitude estimation ... hence little need for slide rules >;) >In most Universities (on the west coast) you would take cculus, then 1st >semester physics (isn't that what you teach?) THEN you begin taking lower >division engineering statics, materis science and electricity. As I see >it in your online catog Engr 103 and 104 are essentily the physics >courses that are usuly the FIRST experience prospective engineers have >where the estimation and magnitude awareness is to be developed. Freshmen >aren't normly expected to have the experience you seem to credit them >with and Sophmores ... perhaps after taking their first physics courses >:))) >In any case, if those students are coming in so deficient then I suppose >either you're 'teacng' them that missing skill, you must have a pretty >gh failure rate to back up those deficiencies OR you're passing students >that by your own admission shouldn't go on to become engineers. So wch >is it? > 1. About 15 or 16 years ago the School of Engineering, in their > infinite wisdom, decided their students should not take the first > semester of Cculus based Physics. from the Physics department. > They teach what is normly taught in first semester physics in ENGR > 103 Vectors, Kinematics, etc(no heat or sound from what I have heard) > and Basic Statics in 104. > 2. Most semesters I have enough materi to cover, without having to > spend time covering materis they had two semesters to learn. I do > point out where they can review the materi in the text and so from > other sources. But knowing how liittle work most students want to do, > I doubt that many do any more that a skimming review. > 3.As far as what students become engineers, that is not up to me. > There are supposed to be much tougher engineering courses that I have > heard students cl weed out courses. > BTW I just cl them as I see them. > > Dept.Of Physics,Geology,and Astronomy > University of Tennessee at Chattanooga > I d corrected, the situation was very different when I was in school. By the time I took my first engineering courses estimation was pretty much beat into me. I tnk the crux of the 'weeding out' process was in the Dynamics course where probably hf the class failed or dropped. After Dynamics, it seemed to me that the courses got easier but it probably was more a change in perspective on my part. === Subject: Re: NCEES bans certain cculators from test sites X > and slide rules even more. My colleagues are quite accused to seeing > me use a slide rule, log tables, or ancient cculator for such tngs > as cculating disk space requirements for databases on our IBM mainframe > or performance statistics on our Unix servers. So you see, my objections > to the NCEES rules have notng to do with my job or with any desire to > take the test myself; it's because I hate to see petty bureaucrats making > stupid decisions, especily when those decisions deprive people of the > chance to use fine macnes like an HP-41 or HP48. I'm not interested > in engineering; I'm interested in slide rules and HP cculators. I agree with both of you! I never ended my engineering studies diploma because I liked more computers (and HP cculators) I switched to Computer Science and had a lower degree After 20+ years among computers I still long for mechanic engineering but I tnk my decision was the right one (though the missing diploma eats me some times) I underd the NCEES decision because PHA-numeric capability has a possibility to bring out some test answers - even one right result could make a difference Maybe those engineeres that don't pass the FE have been cheating to graduate? Maybe just some people don't have *common sense* interpreting / verifying computing results I don't know.. BUT I do know that I like my 49g+ and I would love to have a 15C === Subject: Re: NCEES bans certain cculators from test sites Big dice between Supposed to and Does. Unfortunately, I know a lot of people who test well, but that's l they do.I suppose that's why the requirement of increasing Engineering responsibility as a precursor to taking the P&P exam. Unfortunately, it is l too easy to get the required recomendations from fellow engineers. In many cases, it is a popularity tng... I have been in R&D, up to product release, most of my career, and have seen 'em come and go. Some rely good engineers can't get the test done, and a couple of bad ones who passed. just like there are good lawyers and bad ones.... Oh well. >>SNIPYou can hang as many pieces of paper on your wl as you want to, but > unless >you have the one that says sometng like Registered Profession > Engineer >on it, you are not an engineer,.... >>Typic elitist idiocy. Most Registered Engineers I know can't do >>their work without the cookbooks for their Specity > I tnk you are being too critc. Most registered engineers I know, know > the solution in approximate before the cookbooks are opened. The > registration process is supposed to separate those that know from those > that don't. > David A. Smith === Subject: Re: FA: HP 33S and new in box HP 32SII >>I noticed the same tng. I surmise that not only did he fail to learn >>any manners, he's rather a dim bulb anyway. Notice that not only did >>he spam ts newsgroup, but at least two others. I tried to post an >>objection, but my ISP's news server isn't working properly, so they >>didn't go through. But at least one e-mail did get through to m, >>because he responded with obscenities. The e-mail got through, but >>apparently not the message, as he's still a rude and crude person. > Yes, I sent m an email as well and got an extremely rude answer, > completely out of proportion to the tone of my email. In other and simpler words: not the sort of person one would want to trust in a blind auction. -- .-. .-. .---. .---. .-..-. | Experts in Linux/Unix: www.WildOpenSource.com | |__ / | | |-< | |-< > / | Making the bazaar more commonplace `----'`-^-'`-'`-'`-'`-' `-' | Check out my new novel: Cloud Rem at: home: www.smith-house.org | http://www.smith-house.org/books/list.html === Subject: RPN Reference Manu It would be easy to read, and quick to learn, if I had and manu that ONLY occupy space in the manu and consumes time to read. Does anybody know if there is such a manu? In Word or pdf. /Lars === Subject: Re: RPN Reference Manu Sorry, its about the HP48GII cculator. /Lars > It would be easy to read, and quick to learn, if I had and manu that ONLY mode > occupy space in the manu and consumes time to read. Does anybody know if > there is such a manu? In Word or pdf. > /Lars === Subject: Test Test === Subject: Re: Test test 2 > Test === Subject: Exiting XSERV mode I have written a program wch cls XSERV to set the cculator to Xmodem Server. I wish to make the program go to the next instruction after XSERV when I press CANCEL (ON). If I disconnect using Conn4x the program does indeed go to the next instruction however if I press CANCEL (I've noticed I have to press CANCEL twice in order to exit Xserver mode) I get an Interrumped message. I have tried to put the XSERV instruction inside an error trapping routine: IFERR XSERV THEN END but to no avail. Any ideas? Luis === Subject: Re: 49G+ keyboard X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. > I finly got my HP 49G+ (S/N starts with 4020xxxx) and I'm having a bit of > keyboard trouble (missed keys etc). Now I underd I'm still expected to > miss 1% of the keystrokes on the redesigned keyboard, but I want to know if > in fact my unit IS one with an improved keyboard (as it seems to miss more > than 1% of the time). Hmmm... I don't get 1% missed keystrokes on my HP-48GX. Not even 0.01%. Nor did I on any earlier cculator. Is ts claim of 1% being acceptable sometng that HP has stated? === Subject: Re: 49G+ keyboard > It seems for the new keyboard, if you slightly drop the cc on the table > (wooden in my case) or roughly place it on the table, there shouldn't be any > rattle sound and should be somewhat silent. The old keyboard gives a rattle > sound. Or, on the old keyboard, if you try to move a key (press it and > wiggle/move it very hard in l directions), the whole keyboard moves. The new > keyboard doesn't move. Those are my findings. > Dave It is probably a newer one. Shake it about 4-6 inches (a guess) up and down (the same direction you push the buttons) at a rate of about 4 cycles per second. My new one is most silent and my old one makes noise at hf that speed. === Subject: Re: 49G+ keyboard > It seems for the new keyboard, if you slightly drop the cc on the table > (wooden in my case) or roughly place it on the table, there shouldn't be any > rattle sound and should be somewhat silent. The old keyboard gives a rattle > sound. Or, on the old keyboard, if you try to move a key (press it and > wiggle/move it very hard in l directions), the whole keyboard moves. The new > keyboard doesn't move. Those are my findings. > Dave > It is probably a newer one. Shake it about 4-6 inches (a guess) up and > down (the same direction you push the buttons) at a rate of about 4 > cycles per second. My new one is most silent and my old one makes > noise at hf that speed. My old one does not make any noise when shaking at any speed in any possible direction including 45_o angles. - yes, I have now one old and one new 49g+ === A little question, can i update a 49g with the firmware for the 49G+ === > A little question, can i update a 49g with the firmware for the 49G+ A little answer: No. === Subject: Re: there is a User guide for the 49G in RPN mode???? since you say you are from cle i will write you in spanish: no hay eso, pero puedes consultar la AUR en los apendices hay sobre los comandos http://www.hpcc.org/details.php?id=2998 o bien aprende leyendo el manu de la hp48G/G+/GX o hp48S/SX o hp49G+ lo basico es igu para cuquiera de estas ccs === Subject: Integration Help on HP49G+ I was wondering if anyone could help me with my integration problem. I am trying to evuate an integr from negative infinity to positive infinity of the function F(x)=x^2*e^(-ax^2)dx. Ts is simple integr to look up in a table but my work often involves multiplication by complicated conts or strange vues for a that I don't want to evuate at the time of integration. Whenever I try to evuate the above I ways get back the expression with a t to some power multiplying l the x vues. Could someone tell me what ts means and how I might go about getting the right answer for the HP49G+? Jason Anthes PS. My Ti-89 won't even touch the same integr, it just returns the input when I try to integrate.