A259 1)I think you can download the user's manual from hpcalc 2)YES. The software can improve the features VERY MUCH. Try Alg48 and Erable if you are interested in Maths, Stat48Pro for Statistics. If you have a Look for software in your field: it will be worth. 2)YES. The software can improve the features VERY MUCH. Of course. I have just gone back. Port >=2: Alg48 & add-on,UFL,QPI, TED(VV command),Neopolys,Bode-Routh,Bodepack, Solvesys and much more.. Port 1: Erable,Java Port 0: Completly free. Maybe there's a better configuration with the MK and the port 0 free. > Maybe there's a better configuration with the MK and the port 0 free. > I have used many tricks for getting as more free memory as possible (converting my programs in libraries, hiding in libraries the MK system programs like STARTED, etc). Before a warmstart I get near 33000 bytes free: enougth for the everyday work. If I need more space (for some transfers, spliting libraries, for instance) I purge Erable from port 0. At the end, I copy the backup from port 9 to port 0 and warmstart. I used Java years ago, and really it's good, but MK is MUCH better: the editors for text, matrix, equations, fonts, are fast and they let you things like cut, copy and paste. Does anybody out there remember at which price levels the HP-15C was sold in Germany in its time (1982-1989)? I know that in U.S. the calculator was introduced at $135, and later was $80. TIA, ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralf Fritzsch Bundesanstalt fuer Wasserbau Federal Waterways Engineering and Research Dienststelle Kueste Institute - Department Hamburg ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have a HP15C bill dated at 10/28/87 over 258,90 DM (266,90 DM - 8,00 DM rebate) from meisterknecht gmbh, b.9fromaschinen + computersyteme. Christoph Ralf Fritzsch schrieb im Newsbeitrag Does anybody out there remember at which price levels the HP-15C was sold > in Germany in its time (1982-1989)? I know that in U.S. the calculator > was introduced at $135, and later was $80. TIA, > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ralf Fritzsch > Bundesanstalt fuer Wasserbau Federal Waterways Engineering and Research > Dienststelle Kueste Institute - Department Hamburg > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > web pages that say if you save a user binary integer into a variable named 'TOFF' in the HOME directory, you can adjust the delay before the calculator shuts down. I've done this and the calculator isn't shutting down. For example, I set the TOFF variable to #491520d (one minute) and at 60 seconds, the calculator's hour-glass pops up for a brief second and nothing happens. I'm using ROM 1.19-6. Am I making a mistake somewhere? Doug > web pages that say if you save a user binary integer into a variable > named 'TOFF' in the HOME directory, you can adjust the delay before > the calculator shuts down. I've done this and the calculator isn't > shutting down. For example, I set the TOFF variable to #491520d (one > minute) and at 60 seconds, the calculator's hour-glass pops up for a > brief second and nothing happens. I'm using ROM 1.19-6. Am I making a mistake somewhere? I use 'TOFF' with ROM 1.19-6, and have only found problems when using ridiculously high values for TOFF; strange things may happen if you use an integer that takes over 32 bits, that is, higher than # FFFFFFFFh. But what you've described sounds like it should work. By any chance do you also have a reserved variable 'STARTOFF'? If you do, then the calculator won't turn off unless the program in 'STARTOFF' contains the OFF command. I suspect that that's where the problem is. -- James Keyman was intendet to be updated for the 48, but this was errouneously done in the HP49 section. Untill this is corrected (which may take weeks :-) use my own site. This should always be done to be sure to get actual versions of my programs. - Wolfgang I understand u can put a text file into 48GX as long as u put a string for the content and header, but I was wondering can I change the font size in order to fit the txt fit in one screen instead I need to use a arrow key move around. I know people are good. I hope some once here can help. tsli > I understand u can put a text file into 48GX as long as u put > a string for the content and header If you mean downloading from a computer, the following gimmick allows even embedded quotes [], and without needing to wrap the text inside quotation marks, either: %%HP: T(3); C$ $ [here put any text at all, any number of lines] The compiler recognizes C$ followed by a decimal character count to make a string, or $ to represent an infinite count (to the end of the actual computer file, that is). > can I change the font size You can download HP48 text viewers that display in a small font (VV or TED or Stringwriter or ???) from www.hpcalc.org (((o))) . Prior submitted message not seen? > Prior submitted message not seen? Trying again HP48Gx has a RCIJ command which allows one to add to a row a multiple of another row. I need a CRIJ command which allows one to add a multiple of a column to another column. How to program? Is it available anywhere? I need a CRIJ command which allows one to add a multiple of a column to > another column. How to program? Is it available anywhere? > .82 4 ROLL TRAN 4 ROLLD RCJI TRAN é Use it in the same arguments than RCJI, but columns instead rows. Is this what you need? > .82 4 ROLL TRAN 4 ROLLD RCJI TRAN é Sorry: TRN, not TRAN. I often forget which are standard 48 commands and which added... To do column reductions equivalent to the row reduction command RREF, simply prefix and postfix the RREF command by TRN transpose commands. > What happens when you click reload while holding the shift key? Use http://hpcalc.beachnet.org/ directly, but you should randomly get either one or the other site: glen@glens(2)~$ host www.hpcalc.org www.hpcalc.org has address 216.138.211.243 www.hpcalc.org has address 130.161.43.47 > What happens when you click reload while holding the shift key? > I get the same again:from Electronics Laboratory - Neural Networks and Nanoelectronics Group > Use http://hpcalc.beachnet.org/ directly, but you should randomly get > either one or the other site: glen@glens(2)~$ host www.hpcalc.org > www.hpcalc.org has address 216.138.211.243 > www.hpcalc.org has address 130.161.43.47 And the same again I solved the ODE below with the HP49G (Solve diff eq..) and the calc had more than 10 minutes to solve it. I solved the same ODE on the HP48G and it only had 63s to solve it. Can anyone confirm this behaviour. ODE: dX/dY=(1-Q^2/g*((b+2*m*Y)/((b+m*Y)*Y))^3)/(so-(Q*n/Cu)^2*(b+2*Y*sqrt(1+m^2 )) ^(4/3)/((b+m*Y)*Y)^(10/3) (The ODE is from a hydraulic equation by G. Urroz) information): b=2 [m] m=0 g=9.81 [m/s^2] Q=7 [m^3/s] n=0.013 Cu=1.0 [m^(1/3)/s] so=0.0003 This are the settings: Indep: Y, Init: 2.7, Final: 3.1 Soln: X, Init: 0 Tol: 0.0001, Step: Dflt The solution is: -8127.801.. (which is given by both calcs) Why does the HP49G take so much time to solve this ODE? I thought the algorithms for the numerical Differential equation solver haven't been changed (much) from the 48 to the 49? Roman Hmmm. I don't know... AND I didn't even manage to get that ODE into the solver correctly Error: Bad Argument Type BUT since you can do that - have you tried to set the CAS MODES *both* Numeric and Approx. typing in the values and the formula _after_ that change Did it help in anyway?? Veli-Pekka X> ODE: > dX/dY=(1-Q^2/g*((b+2*m*Y)/((b+m*Y)*Y))^3)/(so-(Q*n/Cu)^2*(b+2*Y*sqrt(1+m^2 )) > ^(4/3)/((b+m*Y)*Y)^(10/3) > (The ODE is from a hydraulic equation by G. Urroz) information): > b=2 [m] > m=0 > g=9.81 [m/s^2] > Q=7 [m^3/s] > n=0.013 > Cu=1.0 [m^(1/3)/s] > so=0.0003 This are the settings: > Indep: Y, Init: 2.7, Final: 3.1 > Soln: X, Init: 0 > Tol: 0.0001, Step: Dflt The solution is: -8127.801.. (which is given by both calcs) > Why does the HP49G take so much time to solve this ODE? I thought the > algorithms for the numerical Differential equation solver haven't been > changed (much) from the 48 to the 49? Roman > also evaluated the whole expression on the stack before and pasted the resulting expression in the diff equation solver. It's still a lot slower than the 48. It needs still more than 5 minutes. The 48G needs with the preevaluated expression about 40s. BTW you get the Wrong Argument Type error if you mistake X and Y. But the expression I gave was also not correct. An ')' was missing. I made a copy and paste, but something went wrong obviously. Sorry about that. But in case you should try again don't forget you won't be able to use your HP49G for the next 10minutes;-). PS: Below I give the now correct ODE again (with a few comments). I would really like if someone could explain why the 49 takes so much more time to solve it than the 48. Or maybe someone knows how to speed things a bit up (without changing the tolerance;-)). The ODE: F: '(1-Q^2/g*((b+2*m*Y)/((b+m*Y)*Y)^3))/ (So -(Q*n/Cu)^2*((b+2*Y*sqrt(1+m^2))^(4/3)/ ((b+m*Y)*Y)^(10/3))) (where sqrt has to be replaced with the squar-root symbol of course) In case you don't like to type: %%HP: T(1)A(R)F(.); '(1-Q^2/g*((b+2*m*Y)/ ((b+m*Y)*Y)^3))/(So-( Q*n/Cu)^2*((b+2*Y*f(1 +m^2))^(4/3)/((b+m*Y) *Y)^(10/3)))' Settings: Indep: Y, Init: 2.7; Final: 3.1, Soln: X, Init: 0, Final: [to solve for], Tol: 0.0001, Step: Dflt (Don't mistake Y, and X or you get a Bad Argument Type error-message) Variables: Q: 7, g: 9.81, m: 0, b: 2, n: 0.013, So: 0.0003, Cu: 1 (The variables need to have the values befor you try to solve the ODE in the diff equation solver) The result for the ODE with this settings is (or should be): -8127.801... Peter Geelhoed schrieb im Newsbeitrag The solution is: -8127.801.. (which is given by both calcs) > Why does the HP49G take so much time to solve this ODE? I thought the > algorithms for the numerical Differential equation solver haven't been > changed (much) from the 48 to the 49? Perhaps your calc is in exact mode, and the 49 tries to solve it > algebraicly The numeric diff eq solver ([right-shift]+[7],2. Solve diff eq..) gives only numeric answers anyway (Runge-Kutta?, at least this is my understanding of it) so I don't think this should have any influence. But just to be sure I checked it and it doesn't seem to matter if the calc (49 of course) is in exact or approximate mode. It takes int both modes more than 10 minutes to solve the ODE. Roman -- > This message was written with 100% recycled electrons Pivo > Peter Geelhoed schrieb im Newsbeitrag The solution is: -8127.801.. (which is given by both calcs) > Why does the HP49G take so much time to solve this ODE? I thought the > algorithms for the numerical Differential equation solver haven't been > changed (much) from the 48 to the 49? Perhaps your calc is in exact mode, and the 49 tries to solve it > algebraicly > > The numeric diff eq solver ([right-shift]+[7],2. Solve diff eq..) gives > only numeric answers anyway (Runge-Kutta?, at least this is my understanding > of it) so I don't think this should have any influence. But just to be sure > I checked it and it doesn't seem to matter if the calc (49 of course) is in > exact or approximate mode. It takes int both modes more than 10 minutes to > solve the ODE. > > Roman numerically, that is, for example not Y+2*X but rather Y+2.*X. And if it contains some variable name where a number is stored, it could help to store the number with decimal point in that variable. Hope that this speeds things up a bit. Nick. I have a HP95LX with a broken serial port (just the serial port)...but i can comunicate the HP95LX with my HP48GX throught the IR port....but i can't comunicate my PC with my HP95LX (i don't have an IR port on my PC). I am just wondering if there is any software that connects throught the serial port of my PC to the serial port of the HP48GX, and use the HP48GX IR port.... the HP48GX will act like an interface to the 95LX...so i can transfer software form my PC to the HP95LX throught my 48GX. OBS>I can transfer files from the PC to the calculator and then to the HP95LX, but that way, i am limited to 128Kb... :-( Diego My mother is going on a buisness trip to Stockholm, and I treat this as a great chance to add a loveley GX to my 49G :) (I've never seen 48's here, in Russia). Now, the question is -- someone knows a place in Stockholm to buy a 48GX+link kit and a memory card, perhaps? hpcalc.org says BB Marketing is in Sweden, but their site is not accessible for us mortals (not knowing the password). -- TIA, Wartan. Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. Prastui Wartan, One place is Svanstr.9ams at City Sveav. 17, Box 3236, 103 64 STOCKHOLM 08-24 59 00. ItÇs right in the middle of the centre at the Concert Hall. I phoned them and they have the48G+ at stock (1995 SEK incl VAT minus 375 SEK taxfree IF REQUESTED at purhace , well given back at customs) and will recieve the48GX(2650 - 375tax off at customs) on monday 23rd of sept. The mem cards are out of stock and - I donÇt know the precise term - but kind of out of stock at the supplier as well. They donÇt have the AUR either, seldom sell stuff like that although itÇs quite good when youÇre in to it. I dont assume its the cheapest but might be easiest to find - time might be precious to your mom. BTW 1 USD apprx 9 SEK /Matti > > My mother is going on a buisness trip to Stockholm, and > I treat this as a great chance to add a loveley GX to > my 49G :) (I've never seen 48's here, in Russia). > Now, the question is -- someone knows a place in Stockholm > to buy a 48GX+link kit and a memory card, perhaps? > hpcalc.org says BB Marketing is in Sweden, but their site > is not accessible for us mortals (not knowing the password). > One place is Svanstr?ms at City Sveav. 17, Box 3236, 103 64 STOCKHOLM > 08-24 59 00. It?s right in the middle of the centre at the Concert > Hall. Hope she would have enough time to find it :) -- Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. I have a 41CX in excellent condition for sale. No corrosion on battery and extension port connectors. Original soft carrying case. But, no manuals. Interested ? Make me an offer ! Pascal Mass.9fn Oostende, Belgium lets say I want to input: 4x + 6 = 7x so that I can solve for x Can it be done? > lets say I want to input: > > 4x + 6 = 7x > > so that I can solve for x > > > Can it be done? Let's not get crazy here (yet). You can obtain a numeric answer by going to the solver menu by pressing [RS] [SOLVE] then choose Solve equation... and then type in EQ the algebraic '4*X+6=7*X'. In the field X: type an initial value for guess, press OK, highlight the X: field again and press SOLVE. You will get the approximate solution. You may also use the polynomial menu to get exactly 2 but you will have to supply the terms of x powers, that is, you will have to collect terms first (eg. 7x-4x=3x etc). You can also use the multi solver menu by pressing [LS] [SOLVE] and then ROOT and then SOLVR. Check it out in the user's guide on how it works. You can also install a very good general purpose solver, namely the solvesys program found in www.hpcalc.org that also handles systems of equations with nonlinear terms. It is very small (less than 5k) and it gets the job done nicely especially for polynomials. You don't have to install erable or alg48 to do these simple things unless you want symbolic answers :-) !Demeter! > lets say I want to input: 4x + 6 = 7x so that I can solve for x > Can it be done? Sure. Type in: '4*x+6=7*x' 'x' ISOL -- ----- Je suis a la recherche de la recette d'un space cake. Je ne trouve que des recettes a base d'herbes. Je voudrais une recette avec du (haschish), j'aurais de plus une preference pour un gateau au chocolat. -+- fred in : Ah ben cake qui space mon neuneu? > Sure. Type in: > '4*x+6=7*x' > 'x' > ISOL ... and you'll get unable to isolate. Better use QUAD. And much better, instal Erable and use SOLVE. '4*x+6=7*x' > 'x' > ISOL ... and you'll get unable to isolate. Better use QUAD. > And much better, instal Erable and use SOLVE. I hadn't tried on my real HP48GX, I just thought such a simple expression would be something easy for the built-in CAS of the HP48G... It works better if you reorder the expression: '4*x+6-7*x=0' COLCT 'x' ISOL And you get the answer: 'x=2'. IMHO, installing Erable for such simple expressions is a little bit 'overkill'. You can get the answer faster by *not* using your calculator... -- ----- surtout avec les pentium 3. Merci. -+- CA in : Guide du Neuneu Usenetien - Souriez vous .90tes film.8es -+- IMHO, installing Erable for such simple expressions is a little bit > 'overkill'. You can get the answer faster by *not* using your > calculator... > Completely agree with you. But I hope you believe me when I say that I was not thinking ONLY in first degree equations when I recommended install Erable. By the way, there's no room in standard G+ for installing all Erable libraries and I use them frecuently. Regrads IMHO, installing Erable for such simple expressions is a little bit > 'overkill'. You can get the answer faster by *not* using your > calculator... Completely agree with you. > But I hope you believe me when I say that I was not thinking ONLY in first > degree equations when I recommended install Erable. Of course. I just think that if someone has some problems to solve such a simple equation, then Erable will be of no use for him ;) I'm not talking about you, but about the original poster. > By the way, there's no room in standard G+ for installing all Erable > libraries and I use them frecuently. It's been a while since I installed Erable (and ALG48), I don't remember all these details... -- ----- ``Numbers talk, bull walks.'' Anonymous Speaking as the original poster, I didn't realize the number of cynics that felt it necessary to post completely useless replies to a curious question. I actually feel sorry for know if the calculator could do it without trying to decipher the manual. in reply to: > Of course. I just think that if someone has some problems to solve such a > simple equation, then Erable will be of no use for him ;) > I'm not talking about you, but about the original poster. I could probably solve equations in my sleep that would drive you insane. I was putting a simple equation like that in my post only to make it easier to understand for you. The numbers I'm working on would probably make you blind just by looking at them. Have a nice day! :) > IMHO, installing Erable for such simple expressions is a little bit > 'overkill'. You can get the answer faster by *not* using your > calculator... Completely agree with you. > But I hope you believe me when I say that I was not thinking ONLY in first > degree equations when I recommended install Erable. Of course. I just think that if someone has some problems to solve such a > simple equation, then Erable will be of no use for him ;) > I'm not talking about you, but about the original poster. By the way, there's no room in standard G+ for installing all Erable > libraries and I use them frecuently. It's been a while since I installed Erable (and ALG48), I don't remember > all these details... -- > ----- > ``Numbers talk, bull walks.'' > Anonymous > I could probably solve equations in my sleep that would drive you insane. > I was putting a simple equation like that in my post only to make it easier > to understand for you. The numbers I'm working on would probably make you > blind just by looking at them. > And so, thinking in those equations, I recomended you install Erable. I didn't realize the number of cynics that felt it necessary to post > completely useless replies to a curious question. I actually feel sorry for to > know if the calculator could do it without trying to decipher the manual. Well. I think you have now one more answer: read the manual to be able to get the most of your HP48. It's sad that the HP48G manual is not as good as older ones from HP (for example the ones that come with the HP48S, HP42S, HP28S, HP15/16C, ...). The HP49G manual is even worse. I think you can read the HP48S manuals, most of them is still valid with the HP48G. I'd bet these manuals are available on one of the CDs sold by www.hpmuseum.org. One more answer: the HP48 CAS is somewhat limited, and as you have probably noticed, you can greatly enhance it with additional libraries, such as Erable or ALG48. > in reply to: > Of course. I just think that if someone has some problems to solve such a > simple equation, then Erable will be of no use for him ;) > I'm not talking about you, but about the original poster. I could probably solve equations in my sleep that would drive you insane. Probably, but that's not the point. > I was putting a simple equation like that in my post only to make it easier > to understand for you. The numbers I'm working on would probably make you > blind just by looking at them. Well. I manipulate big numbers everyday, it's my job. I'm a cryptographer. We can go on with such 'mine is bigger than yours' arguments, but I doubt we'll go far ;) > Have a nice day! :) -- ----- C'est pas pour dire, mais j'ai d.9e mal avoir .88 quel objet pr.8ecis se rapportent ce forum dans les newsgroup du web. -+- JP in GNU : un peu de pr.8ecision dans les newsgroup du web -+- Well, *heh heh* you win. a cryptographer I am not. ~C Speaking as the original poster, > I didn't realize the number of cynics that felt it necessary to post > completely useless replies to a curious question. I actually feel sorry for to > know if the calculator could do it without trying to decipher the manual. Well. I think you have now one more answer: read the manual to be able to > get the most of your HP48. It's sad that the HP48G manual is not as good > as older ones from HP (for example the ones that come with the HP48S, > HP42S, HP28S, HP15/16C, ...). The HP49G manual is even worse. I think you > can read the HP48S manuals, most of them is still valid with the HP48G. > I'd bet these manuals are available on one of the CDs sold by > www.hpmuseum.org. One more answer: the HP48 CAS is somewhat limited, and as you have > probably noticed, you can greatly enhance it with additional libraries, > such as Erable or ALG48. in reply to: > Of course. I just think that if someone has some problems to solve such a > simple equation, then Erable will be of no use for him ;) > I'm not talking about you, but about the original poster. I could probably solve equations in my sleep that would drive you insane. Probably, but that's not the point. I was putting a simple equation like that in my post only to make it easier > to understand for you. The numbers I'm working on would probably make you > blind just by looking at them. Well. I manipulate big numbers everyday, it's my job. I'm a cryptographer. > We can go on with such 'mine is bigger than yours' arguments, but I doubt > we'll go far ;) Have a nice day! :) > -- > ----- > C'est pas pour dire, mais j'ai d.9e mal avoir .88 quel objet pr.8ecis se > rapportent ce forum dans les newsgroup du web. > -+- JP in GNU : un peu de pr.8ecision dans les newsgroup du web -+- > Of course. I just think that if someone has some problems to solve such a > simple equation, then Erable will be of no use for him ;) > I'm not talking about you, but about the original poster. > And I hope that if someone has problems to solve such a simple equation, learn Maths instead playing with expensive toys. Sorry... just the view of a Maths teacher ;-) > I hadn't tried on my real HP48GX, I just thought such a simple expression > would be something easy for the built-in CAS of the HP48G... > It works better if you reorder the expression: To the totally confused I add two commands before COLCT 'X' ISOL: EQ-> and - Veli-Pekka > '4*x+6-7*x=0' > COLCT > 'x' > ISOL And you get the answer: 'x=2'. Help again guys; I dug through my Urroz book and can't find it and then through that worthless manual. I am having the toughest time here. Could someone please tell me how to copy an equation from the x register and from the command line to the equation writer please? Jo If you are using the HP 49G you can press HIST key while already in the EQW and ECHO the desired line to your EQW Also note that it's possible to EDIT and then select via BEGIN and END a portion to COPY to clipboard for later PASTE into you EQW equation. Note: The UNDO works, too! > Help again guys; > I dug through my Urroz book and can't find it and then through that > worthless manual. I am having the toughest time here. Could someone please > tell me how to copy an equation from the x register and from the command > line to the equation writer please? > Jo > If you are using the HP 49G you can press HIST key while > already in the EQW and ECHO the desired line to your EQW > Also note that it's possible to EDIT and then select via > BEGIN and END a portion to COPY to clipboard for later > PASTE into you EQW equation. Note: The UNDO works, too! Great ideas thank you very much! As usual you guys help me out. I can't tell you how much I appreciate this. I had the same problem, if I understand you correctly, I.e. how to edit an equation (or matrix) after it's been put on the stack. Answer is very simple - select the view option (in the area of the cursor keys). The HP48 seems to know what the best viewer is for the object on the stack. Hope this helps... , Daniel >Help again guys; >I dug through my Urroz book and can't find it and then through that >worthless manual. I am having the toughest time here. Could someone please >tell me how to copy an equation from the x register and from the command >line to the equation writer please? >Jo > instead of speaking of x register, I prefer to speak of stack register no. 1...I think this is acchived by switching to RPN mode... having a equation on the command line you only have to press ENTER to move the equation to stack register no. 1. If you want to keep a copy of the equation before editing it in the equation writer first press ENTER to have two identical equations in stack level 1 and 2. Now pressing down-arrow.... and voila... you now have the equation in the equation writer ready to edit... and when you have finished editing, all you have to do is press ENTER... now you have the original equation in stack level 2 and your edited equation in stack level 1. Pressing down-arrow always open the most appropriate editor to edit the contents of stack level 1: If you have an equation or algebraic expression on stack level 1 it will be moved to the equation writer for editing... if you have a matrix in stack level 1 it will be moved to the matrix writer for editing... after pressing ENTER the edited object will be returned to stack level 1. I don't hope that the above explanation is too confusing...:-) Martin > Help again guys; > I dug through my Urroz book and can't find it and then through that > worthless manual. I am having the toughest time here. Could someone please > tell me how to copy an equation from the x register and from the command > line to the equation writer please? > Jo > > a bit when I get my manuals. I did buy those manuals from Booksurge and am anxiously awaiting their arrival. Is anyone else having a problem with Allmem 2.0 crashing their 48GX when looking at a covered port with no object stored in it? After invoking Allmem 2.0, the calc crashes on the next startup (128kb card in slot 1, 1 meg card in slot 2). Is there a better memory browser or a later version of Allmem that isn't so buggy? John > Is anyone else having a problem with Allmem 2.0 crashing their 48GX when > looking at a covered port with no object stored in it? After invoking Allmem > 2.0, the calc crashes on the next startup (128kb card in slot 1, 1 meg card > in slot 2). Is there a better memory browser or a later version of Allmem that isn't so > buggy? John > Have you tried Filer48? It seems a good browser very similar to the MK or 49 Filer. calc (or was it the ports of the calc?). Go to hpcalc.org and search for my name as author - it is the only program that I have submitted so it shouldn't be that hard to find...:-) Martin > Is anyone else having a problem with Allmem 2.0 crashing their 48GX when > looking at a covered port with no object stored in it? After invoking Allmem > 2.0, the calc crashes on the next startup (128kb card in slot 1, 1 meg card > in slot 2). > > Is there a better memory browser or a later version of Allmem that isn't so > buggy? > > John > > now I found the program... it is not a browser but just a program to show, how much free memory you have in the different ports (covered and uncovered. It is called PMEM (for Port Memory) and library has the ID no. 1269. Martin > calc (or was it the ports of the calc?). Go to hpcalc.org and search for > my name as author - it is the only program that I have submitted so it > shouldn't be that hard to find...:-) > Martin > > >> Is anyone else having a problem with Allmem 2.0 crashing their 48GX >> when >> looking at a covered port with no object stored in it? After invoking >> Allmem >> 2.0, the calc crashes on the next startup (128kb card in slot 1, 1 meg >> card >> in slot 2). >> Is there a better memory browser or a later version of Allmem that >> isn't so >> buggy? >> John > > now I found the program... it is not a browser but just a program to > show, how much free memory you have in the different ports (covered and > uncovered. It is called PMEM (for Port Memory) and library has the ID > no. 1269. > Martin nice to hear that someone can (or could) use the program... aside of the compliment it is to have a program on hpcalc.org, your comment is the first positive comment about it...:-) Martin > >>now I found the program... it is not a browser but just a program to >>show, how much free memory you have in the different ports (covered and >>uncovered. It is called PMEM (for Port Memory) and library has the ID >>no. 1269. >>Martin > > > > > > > nice to hear that someone can (or could) use the program... aside of the > compliment it is to have a program on hpcalc.org, your comment is the > first positive comment about it...:-) > Martin Yes, Martin: it was installed doing (wiyhout problems) the work that the 48 can't do... untill MK with its Filer... What is MK and what is it used for? > now I found the program... it is not a browser but just a program to > show, how much free memory you have in the different ports (covered and > uncovered. It is called PMEM (for Port Memory) and library has the ID > no. 1269. > Martin > > > I retract the stupid question. I answered too fast before realizing it was Metakernel. > What is MK and what is it used for? now I found the program... it is not a browser but just a program to > show, how much free memory you have in the different ports (covered and > uncovered. It is called PMEM (for Port Memory) and library has the ID > no. 1269. > Martin > http://miaif.lip6.fr/~squelart/english/mk.html > What is MK and what is it used for? I am a new user of any type of HP calculators. I bought a 49g about 4 months ago and have been trying to get used to it in time for classes this fall. One problem that I have not been able to solve is how to enter text and equations and then be able to save it and later look at it again to read it. I used to do this for my Caulc I class for givens (derivatives of trig and such) that we needed for assignments and tests. I only have the users guide that came with the 49, so, if any one could help me, or point me in the right direction, I would appriciate it. Loug1806 this is in fact quite easy. I assume you are in RPN mode. You have to put your text between ... and save them as a string. Example: This is just a test [ENTER] 'Test' [ENTER] [STO] The variable 'Test' holds now the string. If you want to put your formulas also in the string you have them to put between ' .. '. Example: Pythagoras 'a^2+b^2=c^2' kineticE 'Ek=1/2*m*v^2' [ENTER] 'Pyth' [ENTER] [STO] But keep in mind you have to copy and paste your formulas in order to use them. Roman Loug1806 schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I am a new user of any type of HP calculators. I bought a 49g about 4 > months ago and have been trying to get used to it in time for classes > this fall. One problem that I have not been able to solve is how to > enter text and equations and then be able to save it and later look at > it again to read it. I used to do this for my Caulc I class for > givens (derivatives of trig and such) that we needed for assignments > and tests. I only have the users guide that came with the 49, so, if > any one could help me, or point me in the right direction, I would > appriciate it. > Loug1806 Roman, trying to figure it out. Stan > this is in fact quite easy. I assume you are in RPN mode. > You have to put your text between ... and save them as a string. > Example: > > This is just a test [ENTER] > 'Test' [ENTER] > [STO] > > The variable 'Test' holds now the string. > If you want to put your formulas also in the string you have them to put > between ' .. '. > Example: > > Pythagoras 'a^2+b^2=c^2' kineticE 'Ek=1/2*m*v^2' [ENTER] > 'Pyth' [ENTER] > [STO] > > But keep in mind you have to copy and paste your formulas in order to use > them. > > Roman > > > Loug1806 schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I am a new user of any type of HP calculators. I bought a 49g about 4 > months ago and have been trying to get used to it in time for classes > this fall. One problem that I have not been able to solve is how to > enter text and equations and then be able to save it and later look at > it again to read it. I used to do this for my Caulc I class for > givens (derivatives of trig and such) that we needed for assignments > and tests. I only have the users guide that came with the 49, so, if > any one could help me, or point me in the right direction, I would > appriciate it. > Loug1806 I used this loop for a bicycle speedometer. The loop works fine except that the maximum speed is 5.6 revolution to second(that mean ~44Km/h). I would appreciate it if someone could help me to achieve 60Km/s ~7.7Hz. 0 STIME TICKS DO DO 1 SRECV DROP2 TICKS DUP ROT - B->R 64290.816 SWAP / SWAP + Km/h. + 3 DISP 'j' INCR DROP UNTIL KEY END UNTIL 13 == END Tal machine-language programming. There are also some applications with source code. This site will very soon have to be discontinued and I am looking for someone to put these things on their own homepage. If you are interested, contact me as soon as possible (the site goes down on 29/9 but I'll keep everything on my hd). This is the page: http://www.ite.mh.se/~danli97/hp48.html -- Daniel Lidstr.9am danli97@_DELETE_ite.mh.se or (after 29/9): dali9800@_DELETE_student.mh.se http://www.ite.mh.se/~danli97/ 62 23' 25 N 17 15' 31 E Hey All: I was reading Riemann's paper On the Number of Primes Less Than a Given Magnitude and was checking the values in a table that he calculated (actually, he did a very impressive job considering he calculated by hand, so long ago). The definite integral I was looking at is: 1/log(x) and the limits are 2 to 500,000...1,000,000...1,500,000.... For 2 to 500,000: Mathematica 4 gives the approximation 41,605.2 (and WON'T give more decimal places) Derive 5.05 gives 41,605.24366 Maple V gives 41,605.24373 and my HP49 gives 95,799.6137 (and takes about 30 min. to do so). What sort of algorithm would be used for integral of (1/log(x)) and why is my HP's answer so different from the others? I ran it twice and I *think* I entered everything correctly..... Roger Metcalf Arlington, Texas, USA > Hey All: I was reading Riemann's paper On the Number of Primes Less Than a > Given Magnitude The PrimePi function? > and was checking the values in a table that he calculated > (actually, he did a very impressive job considering he calculated by hand, > so long ago). The definite integral I was looking at is: > > 1/log(x) and the limits are 2 to 500,000...1,000,000...1,500,000.... > > For 2 to 500,000: > Mathematica 4 gives the approximation 41,605.2 (and WON'T give more decimal > places) In[1]:= NIntegrate[1/Log[x], {x,2,500000}, WorkingPrecision->50, MaxRecursion->20] Out[1]= 41605.24362265250075725157712483776450994 In[2]:= Precision[%] Out[2]= 40 The integration took about 1.48 seconds. -- Bhuvanesh Bhuvanesh How the heck did Riemann do this integral? (I guess stuff like that was why he WAS Riemann....) Roger > Hey All: I was reading Riemann's paper On the Number of Primes Less Than a > Given Magnitude and was checking the values in a table that he calculated > (actually, he did a very impressive job considering he calculated by hand, > so long ago). The definite integral I was looking at is: > > 1/log(x) and the limits are 2 to 500,000...1,000,000...1,500,000.... > > For 2 to 500,000: > Mathematica 4 gives the approximation 41,605.2 (and WON'T give more decimal > places) > Derive 5.05 gives 41,605.24366 > Maple V gives 41,605.24373 > and my HP49 gives 95,799.6137 (and takes about 30 min. to do so). > > What sort of algorithm would be used for integral of (1/log(x)) and why is > my HP's answer so different from the others? I ran it twice and I *think* I > entered everything correctly..... I would bet that log is natural logarithm on Mathematica, Derive and Maple and decimal log on the HP. I would bet that log is natural logarithm on Mathematica, Derive > and Maple and decimal log on the HP. > As usual, you are correct, sir. Actually I DID check in Derive using Log(x) and Ln(x) notation and got the same result for both, not realizing that I should have used Log(x,10) for the decimal log. Of course, the answer from the 49 was correct--I was asking the wrong question! Roger Metcalf Arlington, Texas, USA Roger: > 1/log(x) [Riemann's asymptotic prime counting estimator] Use 'INV(LN(X))' [ *not* decimal LOG ] > For 2 to 500,000: > Mathematica 4 gives the approximation 41,605.2 Set your calc to 4 SCI display mode before integrating; it will get a close answer pretty soon. ((o)) http://www.mum.edu . I am still learning a few things about my 49, and needing to learn a whole lot more. I downloaded a physics constants library to my cacl, but I cant access it. I also have the same problem with other programs that I have downloaded. How do I access them and be able to see the constants in the library, or to use the other programs. When I do find them and have their name in the input line and press enter, it only re-inputs the name. Loug1806 Loug: A library object (which displays as Library NNN on stack) must be stored in a port to work, rather than in a variable. With library on stack, type the digit 1 or 2 and press STO [that's for RPN mode; use STO(1) or STO(2) in ALG mode] A library generally contains multiple functions, which add themselves to those that are built into the calc (actually, all functions that are built into the calc are also in libraries, but just located in ROM instead). After your library is stored, its name generally appears in the right-shift LIB menu, and its command menu appears when you press its name, or when you do nnnn MENU (specifying the actual library number); the commands are also included in the 49G CATalog. ((o)) http://www.mum.edu . John and Roman, lot less stressful. Also, I have been able to use some useful for all the help. Loug1806 > Loug: > > A library object (which displays as Library NNN on stack) > must be stored in a port to work, rather than in a variable. > > With library on stack, type the digit 1 or 2 and press STO > [that's for RPN mode; use STO(1) or STO(2) in ALG mode] > > A library generally contains multiple functions, which add themselves > to those that are built into the calc (actually, all functions > that are built into the calc are also in libraries, > but just located in ROM instead). > > After your library is stored, its name generally appears > in the right-shift LIB menu, and its command menu appears > when you press its name, or when you do nnnn MENU (specifying > the actual library number); the commands are also included > in the 49G CATalog. > > ((o)) http://www.mum.edu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > hi, I assume your calc is in RPN mode. I assume further you know how to connect your calc with the PC and send the files (libs) to the calc. Press on your calc the [VAR]-key to see the file you downloaded. In case you can't see it, press the [NXT]-key till you see it. Then press the corresponding soft key for the file [F1-F6] to put the file on the stack. Store the Lib now in a port 0, 1 or 2. To store the lib in port 2 put the numer 2 on the stack and press the [STO] key. Now make a warmstart [ON]&[F3]. The libs should now be attached to your calc. You can find your libs now by pressing [R-SHIFT]-[2/LIB]. Most libs have also some documentation how to use them. Roman Loug1806 schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I am still learning a few things about my 49, and needing to learn a > whole lot more. I downloaded a physics constants library to my cacl, > but I cant access it. I also have the same problem with other > programs that I have downloaded. How do I access them and be able to > see the constants in the library, or to use the other programs. When > I do find them and have their name in the input line and press enter, > it only re-inputs the name. > Loug1806 Will these cards work properly in the 48gx? Is there a better card to buy? Do any of the Cynox cards (2M, 1M, 512k, 256k, 128k) work capacity perspective, the 1MB seems optimal, but I wanted to get some advance, Steve hi Steve, i bought two ramcards (128Kb,1Mb) for my 48gx from O.Klotz in Germany. Really i'm happy of my choice for quality 'n price (http://uuhome.de/oklotz/index_e.html) see ya, Acrux, Italy > Will these cards work properly in the 48gx? Is there a better card to > buy? Do any of the Cynox cards (2M, 1M, 512k, 256k, 128k) work > capacity perspective, the 1MB seems optimal, but I wanted to get some > advance, Steve A created a multitasking OS for hp49. It currently only beta. Can somebody upload it somewhere ? I can send > > A created a multitasking OS for hp49. > It currently only beta. Can somebody upload it somewhere ? I can send > OK. It is @ cooldemo.miesto.sk I'm warning you it has nothing. it is kinda just demo. Can anyone how to obtain a pointer to HOME dir ??? Sorry if this gets posted twice but I got a timeout error on the first try. >Can anyone how to obtain a pointer to HOME dir ??? In sys-rpl : :: CONTEXT@ ( Get current directory ) SYSCONTEXT ( Change to home directory... ) CONTEXT@ ( ...and get address of it ) SWAP CONTEXT! ( Restore original directory ) ; or in assembly : CODE LC(5) =USEROB * #80711 , pointer to home dir CD0EX A=DAT0 A * A.A contains address of home dir D0=C GOVLNG =DOBINT * Push address to stack ENDCODE or a shorter version of the above : CODE LC(5) =USEROB GOVLNG =SysPtr@ * Push address of pointee to stack ENDCODE ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. >Can anyone how to obtain a pointer to HOME dir ??? > In sys-rpl : > :: > CONTEXT@ ( Get current directory ) > SYSCONTEXT ( Change to home directory... ) > CONTEXT@ ( ...and get address of it ) > SWAP CONTEXT! ( Restore original directory ) > ; I think the shortest SysRPL program to recall (the pointer to) the HOME directory from any position is :: SaveVarRes HOMEDIR CONTEXT@ RestVarRes ;-) - Wolfgang memory for my hp48gx and hp48s? i search for schemes and pcb for upgrade the memory for the gx model i have found a 2 mega card for 70 euro ,it's a good price ? roberto cardascia studente del politecnico di bari you can find something (about schemes,etc.. on hpcalc.org). For your hp48gx IMHO the best choice are two memcards (a 128kb for slot1 and a 1Mb for slot two). As you can experimented by Emu48 they are enough. see ya, Acrux, Italy http://it.groups.yahoo.com/group/lista_hp48/ > memory for my hp48gx and hp48s? > i search for schemes and pcb for upgrade the memory for the gx model i have found a 2 mega card for 70 euro ,it's a good price > ? roberto cardascia studente del politecnico di bari for the gx model i have found a 2 mega card for 70 euro ,it's a good price > ? Possibly the best one. But, will you really need 2Mb? I have a lot of free mem in my 1Mb card: and believe me: with a lot of stuff! Is it possible to do this in hp49g ? 1. Conformal Transformation of regions 2. Calculate Function Series where the function is defined from C-->C Matias After many doubts I'll be there from Saturday morning. Who else be there? Would be good to see as many people as possible. ...and many of us, will be here waiting for your posts... Please and Alas, I will be stuck over the pond here in the states. Maybe I should arrange a meeting in Nashville Tennessee next year? I'm sure I could make that one. ;-) Hopefully, Jake will be videotaping the event. That's the way I know most of you guys...you've been on my TV many times. Gene -- * All opinions herein expressed are mine and * * mine alone. You may choose to ignore them * * but I own them. * > ...and many of us, will be here waiting for your posts... Please and > someone put a webcam! hi hi >Do you think it is possible to make a connection between a HP-48 and >the modem of a Mac (which has no serial port...) to send/receive file? > There was a post about a year back from someone who claimed to have done this. Google is your friend. You'll need a second modem though - you can't connect the Mac's built-in modem directly to the 48's serial port. However, you can connect the Mac's modem to a second modem [1]. Then you'll need to change the settings to turn off a load of default stuff: e.g. *don't* wait for a dialtone; answer immediately as you won't get any rings; turn off all error correction; turn off line quality monitoring and I'm sure there'll be loads more. Choose a slow baud rate - the max the 48 can manage is 9600 so there's no point going any higher. You may even need to establish the connection from both ends: i.e. set up the Mac to connect trying to see what's out there and do the same on the HP48 - you'll need to write a small program to send the appropriate AT commands to the modem attached to the 48 and hopefully they'll meet in the middle, so to speak. There's no way it'll work if you try and have one answer automatically since the rings etc. are generated by the telephone company and you don't have one of those in the middle. [2] [1] It needs to be mains or battery powered. A line powered one won't work. [2] Unless of course you have free local phone calls and two lines. In which case you can just dial yourself! -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk I have very good news!, next week I will release version 2.0, it's about time to make a new release, plus on September Filer48 became 2 years old!! THANK YOU very much for all your suggestions, if it wasn't for you Filer48 wouldn't be what it is today, so please keep sending in your letters!!! What's new in version 2.0? For now, I can tell you this: - 5 Flavors to choose from!!! - Windows' Explorer style Interface!!! - New API for customizing the Filer!!! - Much more... I can assure you this is the best version ever! I think you're going to love it! at least I hope so ;) I've got OS 1.19.6. I have approximate unchecked in the cas. Yet when I put in a matrix and use the LU command on it I get decimals instead of fractions. How can I make sure it returns the exact answer instead of the approximation? > I've got OS 1.19.6. I have approximate unchecked in the cas. Yet when I put > in a matrix and use the LU command on it I get decimals instead of > fractions. How can I make sure it returns the exact answer instead of the > approximation? > > LU and many of the other matrix commands are carryovers from the HP48 which did everything in approximate mode, so the 49 also does these commands in approximate mode regardless of exact/approximate settings. You can often get the correct exact expressions by using the conversion commands: XQ or ->Q or ->Qpi on your resulting matrices.( -> is the right arrow symbol and pi is the pi symbol) WARNING: You should, however, check the exact results produced by these commands to see if they are correct, since roundoff errors may cause conversions to incorrect exact matrices. The first two of the above commands also switches to exact mode when executed, but the ->Qpi command leaves the exact/approximate mode unchanged. XQ and ->Qpi will also produce rational multiples of pi when appropriate but ->Q will only produce rationals (or integers). The next program is the standard assignment of RS MENU for going back to the last menu: :: MenuMaker ROMPTR A9 0 DoMenuKey ; @ When I run this program, I get the last menu, but I need press ON for refreshing the screen... What do I need for getting the autorefreh? The next program is the standard assignment of RS MENU for going back to the last menu: :: MenuMaker ROMPTR A9 0 DoMenuKey ; @ When I run this program, I get the last menu, but I need press ON for refreshing the screen... What do I need for getting the autorefreh? > When I run this program, I get the last menu, but I need press ON for > refreshing the screen... > What do I need for getting the autorefreh? I think that maybe ClrDA3OK help you. I don't have the calc here so I can't test. Hope this helps Luis If you type in RPN: 2 sqrt (the button, not typing) enter EVAL then it says (sqrt(2))^2 does anyone know why it doesn't answer only 2? If you then try to -> NUM it answers 1.99999999999 and im having exact (=) mode set. Is their some kind of setting that i maybe have set accidently? Rom 1.19-6 Well, now i have downgraded to rom 1.18 and now everything works fine again. Don't know what the problem was unforunately. The 1.19-6 worked fine in the emulator, but not on my real hp49g. Maybe i give it a chance somewhere in the future. // Jocke Please friend! It does not get any easier that this. Use EVAL instead for ->NUM to get the exact answer 2. !Demeter! > If you type in RPN: > 2 > sqrt (the button, not typing) > enter > EVAL then it says (sqrt(2))^2 Are you sure you're not missing something in your description? 2 SQRT EVAL return SQRT(2) > Are you sure you're not missing something in your description? > 2 SQRT EVAL return SQRT(2) > Yes i did, sorry. I missed the multiplication sign. I try one more time: RPN-mode: 2 sqrt (the button) enter (duplicates sqrt(2), so you have two identical terms) * (multiplication sign) EVAL Now my 49g answers (sqrt(2))^2 If i do a ANS -> NUM it says: 1.99999999... e.g. Can't 49g tell sqrt(2) * sqrt(2) exact? // Jocke e.g. Can't 49g tell sqrt(2) * sqrt(2) exact? > Try EXPAND > Try EXPAND > Done that now, and it still results in (sqrt(2))^2 :-( // Jocke to do VERSION and 64 STWS HEX RCLF Here's the result from my hp49g VERSION Copyright HP 2001 and... 64 STWS HEX RCLF { # 38205010FF1h # 1000000000000001h # 1004400002000800h # 0h } Hope this will help me and you... =) > to do VERSION and 64 STWS HEX RCLF > > Here's the result from my hp49g > > VERSION > Copyright HP 2001 > > and... > > 64 STWS HEX RCLF > { # 38205010FF1h > # 1000000000000001h > # 1004400002000800h > # 0h } > > Hope this will help me and you... =) I tried this on my HP 49. The result of the multiplication is exactly 2 (i.e., there is no need to do EVAL). I also tried entering (SQRT(2)*SQRT(2))^2 directly, and doing EVAL; the result is 2 exactly. Both numeric and approximate are not checked. The binary word size (result of RCWS) is 64. My ROM version is 1.18. Is it possible this issue only arises with certain ROM versions? Geoff Garner Try EXPAND > Done that now, and it still results in (sqrt(2))^2 > :-( I have a 48GX with Erable: I get 2 in exact mode (the same in my 49 emu): 2 sqrt ENTER * EXPAND Sorry for can not help more... Interested in the great book Mastering the HP68G/GX book? look at my auction in ebay, the book is in very good condition: This is a book in like new condition. Mastering the HP 48G/GX: A step by step, easy to read introduction to operating and programming the HP48G/GX. Great for students who own an HP calculator, it provides a great introduction and mid level treatment of the RPL programming in the HP calculators. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2053646105 Mariano I bought an HP49 for the younger brother of my girlfriend to replace a TI. He was thrilled and instantly proud of it. I spent time giving him a crash course in the machine, and how to do the ROM updates. A bright young guy, he noticed that the ROM updates were almost 2 years old. He asked aren't there any newer ones? I answered no, and briefly explained what I knew about HP's calculator division problems. He then said this machine is dead in its tracks, huh? He was then visibly depressed, as if his great new gift was now a tarnished cast-off. There was little I could say, except that I found the HP49 of great value in my engineering studies, and it would surely help him in high school. As I drove home, it made me wonder the same thing: is the HP49 truely dead in its tracks, are HP calcs all dinosaurs, relics of a by gone era? J.C. Randerson Pueblo, Colorado > the HP49 ROM updates are almost 2 years old. 1.19-6 is about 11 months old. Of course, HP appears to have dissolved its organization for producing any more such products, but the products still exist, and will keep working anyway, with or without HP's further interest. Former HP employees may or may not produce future firmware enhancements (legally blocked at present), but contributors who participate in this newsgroup do not seem to stop producing more software themselves, also with or without HP's further interest, and they also offer far more ongoing support to users than HP ever did. > He asked aren't there any newer ones? I answered no, and briefly > explained what I knew about HP's calculator division problems. > He then said this machine is dead in its tracks, huh? > He was then visibly depressed, as if his great new gift > was now a tarnished cast-off. > There was little I could say, except that I found the HP49 > of great value in my engineering studies, > and it would surely help him in high school. > As I drove home, it made me wonder the same thing: > is the HP49 truly dead in its tracks, are HP calcs all dinosaurs, > relics of a bygone era? The HP48GX hasn't been updated since 1993, the HP12C (still selling widely) not since before anyone ever heard of the internet, and it seems that very few of the lesser, ordinary calculators of all manufacturers have changed a bit in far longer than that, yet they still seem to be sold to people who find them very useful. Paper, pencils and ink, the most archaic of scholarly tools, are still more helpful (and cheaper) than any calculator in many cases, and the most powerful of all analytical tools apparently hasn't undergone hardware or firmware changes in all of recorded human history, which makes me wonder how your girlfriend's young brother can stand to still be using only his own utterly outmoded brain. With best wishes from http://www.mum.edu . John H Meyers schrieb im Newsbeitrag the HP49 ROM updates are almost 2 years old. 1.19-6 is about 11 months old. [..] > The HP48GX hasn't been updated since 1993, > ...since there was no need;-) It was nearly perfect. Raymond Raymond Hellstern escribi.97 en el The HP48GX hasn't been updated since 1993, ...since there was no need;-) It was nearly perfect. Raymond and... many many features that are not in the 48 out of the box and I need/want for my work. HP did not too much for it, but the users wich prgs I'm using, (and myself) did. And EVERYDAY, this calculator amazes me: how it can grow up and be better. And so perhaps you are right: it's nearly perfect ;-) > Raymond Hellstern escribi.97 en el The HP48GX hasn't been updated since 1993, ...since there was no need;-) It was nearly perfect. Raymond > Erable > and... many many features that are not in the 48 out of the box and I > need/want for my work. > HP did not too much for it, but the users wich prgs I'm using, (and myself) > did. > And EVERYDAY, this calculator amazes me: how it can grow up and be better. > And so perhaps you are right: it's nearly perfect ;-) > Isn't the 49 such an updated 48? > Isn't the 49 such an updated 48? Yes. I think so. > Isn't the 49 such an updated 48? It was supposed too. Unfortunatly, those who did the 49 wheren't as smart as the 48's developpers where :-( > Paper, pencils and ink, the most archaic of scholarly tools, are > still more helpful (and cheaper) than any calculator in many cases, > and the most powerful of all analytical tools apparently hasn't > undergone hardware or firmware changes in all of recorded human > history, which makes me wonder how your girlfriend's young brother > can stand to still be using only his own utterly outmoded brain. Hmm.. Come to think of it, there is some software you can add to your brain, which helps it quite a bit to think more clearly, to feel far more positive, and to manage its entire body more effectively for its energy, health and longevity. The lack of knowledge of its existence, and lack of interest in its installation, seems as perplexing to me as to why many folks don't discover and update their 49G rom, (or even install all of WR's further enhancements :) Fortunately, unlike HP, the distributor of this brain software is not packing up and going away; we're staying the course: http://www.mum.edu http://www.maharishischooliowa.org/about_maharishi_school.htm http://www.permanentpeace.org/multimedia http://www.permanentpeace.org/multimedia/Hagelin_12.ram http://www.permanentpeace.org/research http://www.tm.org http://www.alltm.org . X > Fortunately, unlike HP, the distributor of this brain software > is not packing up and going away; we're staying the course: http://www.mum.edu > http://www.maharishischooliowa.org/about_maharishi_school.htm > http://www.permanentpeace.org/multimedia > http://www.permanentpeace.org/multimedia/Hagelin_12.ram > http://www.permanentpeace.org/research > http://www.tm.org > http://www.alltm.org John - to you it's TM - to me it's Jesus Christ. Don't you think you're off topic?! Perhaps the next best one will be the iPaq50....ugggh... > I bought an HP49 for the younger brother of my girlfriend to replace a > TI. He was thrilled and instantly proud of it. I spent time giving him > a crash course in the machine, and how to do the ROM updates. A bright > young guy, he noticed that the ROM updates were almost 2 years old. He > asked aren't there any newer ones? I answered no, and briefly > explained what I knew about HP's calculator division problems. He then > said this machine is dead in its tracks, huh? He was then visibly > depressed, as if his great new gift was now a tarnished cast-off. > There was little I could say, except that I found the HP49 of great > value in my engineering studies, and it would surely help him in high > school. As I drove home, it made me wonder the same thing: is the HP49 > truely dead in its tracks, are HP calcs all dinosaurs, relics of a by > gone era? J.C. Randerson > Pueblo, Colorado > Hopefully, it is not a fossil in time, but I would say it suffered from the meteoric rise and crash of the 'new era economy'. Large corporation discarded tried and true principles of producing wealth for the get rich quick scheme of mergers and .con's and other paper shuffling scams. Well at least the CEOs made out ... like bandits. be sure to understand http://www.anti-matrix.net i wanna make a link cable but i dont know the order of the wires within the cable.... any one know where i can find out? > i don't know the order of the wires within the [hp48] cable... http://www.hpcalc.org/viewzip.php?id=3517&file=c_hp-pc.txt http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/48faq-12.html#ss12.1 Etc. ((o)) . HP48+ > i wanna make a link cable but i dont know the order of the wires within the > cable.... > any one know where i can find out? > everybody requesting it. Now, I have setup a web site to cover the time before HpCalc.org gets updated. Even if it has all the library I ported to the HP49G, it is not intended to replace HpCalc.org. It is just a temporary repository with a faster refresh rate ;-). The URL is http://www3.sympatico.ca/france.vallieres/ Alain Robillard http://www.softintegration.com/ I have an hp49. I am having touble attaching the fumo library from the hp49 electrical engineering section of the hpcalc.org website. Has anyone had any luck attaching this library? I am able to copy it but my calculate fails to recognize it as a library. I was looking at the manual but i can't find it! It's there a possiblity to solve Equation with letters ? Is there a possiblity to solve it with the calc ? Jani try the SOLVE command ! e.g : 1: 'X' SOLVE HTH Bernd jani schrieb im Newsbeitrag I was looking at the manual but i can't find it! It's there a possiblity to solve Equation with letters ? Is there a possiblity to solve it with the calc ? > Jani thank you very much!!! greets jani thank you so much!!!!! greets jani be sure to understand http://www.anti-matrix.net >be sure to understand http://www.anti-matrix.net I am starting up a project to develop a 39/40G Shell / Operating System Application to be written in System RPL. I am very new to this language but understand it sort of well. Anyway I want to make this a group project so I am going to need sample code from willing authors. I want this application to adhere to the following standards: - Programmable API for future Programs - Multi-Tasking (like linux with seperate terminals) - Gui Interface - Filing System , File Explorer - Connectivity with other infrared devies If you are willing to assist with this project reply here Help in Need, Rob Morgan Why? > I am starting up a project to develop a 39/40G Shell / Operating System > Application > to be written in System RPL. I am very new to this language but understand > it sort of well. > > Anyway I want to make this a group project so I am going to need sample code > from willing > authors. > > I want this application to adhere to the following standards: > - Programmable API for future Programs > - Multi-Tasking (like linux with seperate terminals) > - Gui Interface > - Filing System , File Explorer > - Connectivity with other infrared devies > > If you are willing to assist with this project reply here > > Help in Need, > Rob Morgan > > > > Why? - To improve on the flaws of the current system - Provide Better security - Faster for Equations or Games - Why was ShellEX developed for the 48G? - More intregration with other infrared devices - A easier system to develop games or apps for the current RPL OS - Fun! Rob Morgan <3d8f00c5@dnews.tpgi.com.au Why? - To improve on the flaws of the current system What flaws? > - Provide Better security Hard to achieve without the help of an MMU in the CPU. > - Faster for Equations or Games I doubt you'll be able to do faster... And as you're talking about games, I don't think that adding a suplementary layer will enhance the speed (mainly because actual games talk directly to the hardware). > - Why was ShellEX developed for the 48G? Why did it stop? > - More intregration with other infrared devices That's the first good reason. Unfortunately, you won't be able to do IrDA faster than 2400 bauds with the HP39 hardware... And if I remember correctly, the lowest available speed for IrDA is 9600 bauds. > - A easier system to develop games or apps for the current RPL OS Well... The actual OS is really good for RPL apps. > - Fun! Just add another one: - Lose time! ;) -- ----- RECHERCHONS HOMMES pr.8esentant peau sensible utilisant d.8eodorant sans alcool, pour tester produits cosm.8etiques, r.8emun.8eration en fin d'essai. -+- in Guide du Neuneu d'Usenet-Halte .88 l'exp.8erimentation neuneutale -+- answer and no idea how to do. I want to install the scribe and todo list in the 1.1, i read there're in the 1.01 ? How i can bring it to run ? Can somebody help me ? Thx Ellum if you have Organizer 1.1 properly installed, you only have to install the Scribe library. Then, from Organizer 1.1, press the Todo softkey (C) and you should have Scribe invoked with a Todo Manager database automatically setup in port 0 for the HP48 and in port 1 for the HP49G. Alain Robillard aml2t3$20km$1@news.imp.ch... answer and no idea how to do. I want to install the scribe and todo list in the 1.1, i read there're in > the 1.01 ? How i can bring it to run ? Can somebody help me ? > Thx > Ellum on sept 30 you will be able to go to MIT for free!! well, almost :) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2270648.stm viva the internet! I just got my copy of the URROZ books. Like 'em so far, but..... One of the first examples (actually a psudo-example) is t^2-3t+5=0. so you enter this on the stack: 2: t^2-3t+5=0 1:'t' enter QUAD and I get QUAD Error: No soluntions found I have tried this several times and used the same key pattern out of the book. If you see what I am fouling up, I'd appreciate it. Matt > > I just got my copy of the URROZ books. Like 'em so far, but..... > > One of the first examples (actually a psudo-example) is t^2-3t+5=0. > so you enter this on the stack: > > 2: t^2-3t+5=0 > 1:'t' > enter QUAD > > and I get QUAD Error: No soluntions found I'll bet you are trying to find complex solutions while in real mode. This does not work very well! If you are in real mode, your example above,t^2-3t+5=0, has no solutions, as you may easily verify by hand. When I am in ->complex mode<- and exact mode I get { 't=(3-i*sqrt(11))/2' 't=(3+-i*sqrt(11))/2'} and when in ->complex<- and approximate modes I get {'t=(1.5,-1.65831239158)''t=(1.5,1.65831239158)'} What more could anyone want of QUAD? > What more could anyone want of QUAD? That it was backward compatible with the HP48 series? If some commands are not, some are somewhat, and some are completely backward compatible, then backward compatibility should be ditched alltogether. I disagree. While it was not entirely clear or intuitive to get this particular problem to work on the 49G, I blame myself for not understanding how the new 49G works as opposed to the 48GX, which I have. I'm still trying to kick my old 48GX habits to understand everything about the 49G, not an easy task, but at the same time I realize that most of the mistakes I'm making are my own fault, not the calculators. Doug > What more could anyone want of QUAD? That it was backward compatible with the HP48 series? If some commands are not, some are somewhat, and some are completely > backward compatible, then backward compatibility should be ditched > alltogether. > I disagree. While it was not entirely clear or intuitive to get this > particular problem to work on the 49G, I blame myself for not understanding > how the new 49G works as opposed to the 48GX, which I have. QUAD does not work like on the HP48GX. Period. That was the intent - why keep it otherwise? > I'm still > trying to kick my old 48GX habits to understand everything about the 49G, > not an easy task, but at the same time I realize that most of the mistakes > I'm making are my own fault, not the calculators. Yeah, right. That's non-intuitive for ya. Regrads I think you're missing the point. Either way, it can be done on both calculators. > I disagree. While it was not entirely clear or intuitive to get this > particular problem to work on the 49G, I blame myself for not > understanding > how the new 49G works as opposed to the 48GX, which I have. QUAD does not work like on the HP48GX. Period. That was the intent - why > keep it otherwise? I'm still > trying to kick my old 48GX habits to understand everything about the 49G, > not an easy task, but at the same time I realize that most of the mistakes > I'm making are my own fault, not the calculators. Yeah, right. That's non-intuitive for ya. Regrads I think you're missing the point. No, *you're* missing the point. I know it can be done - I know it can be done a zillion ways on the HP49G, but that was not the point. The point is that QUAD does not behave like on the HP48G series, which was the intent of the former HP49G programmers. That's the point, and with all these commands trying to emulate the HP48G, they simply shouldn't, as half-emulation is much much worse than no emulation at all. I know QUAD can solve a quadratic, it simply does not return the same result as on the HP48G. I don't care if the output is mathematically correct, it's not the same as on the HP48G. That's the sole purpose of QUAD, to deliver the exact same result as on the HP48G - not to imitate the HP49G SOLVE command. That's my point. > I know QUAD can solve a quadratic, it simply does not return the same result > as on the HP48G. I don't care if the output is mathematically correct, it's > not the same as on the HP48G. That's the sole purpose of QUAD, to deliver > the exact same result as on the HP48G - not to imitate the HP49G SOLVE > command. Then go back to the 48. For my part, vive le difference! > Then go back to the 48. For my part, vive le difference! I don't give a flying f*** about the '48 (and soon neither the '49 for that matter). The point is - and read this carefully - there is *no* need for QUAD on the '49, was it not for backward compatibility. That purpose does QUAD not serve, hence it's buggy! Buggy, like so many other commands on the '49 - they'll never get fixed, and so what? My *point* is that QUAD does not behave like it should. If you don't get my point, fine. Don't tell me which calculator to to use - that decission is long since made. While I am not crazy about learning new stuff with the 49g (I own a 48gx as well) I do not blame the calculator in this case. I blame the book. This is a typo, plain and simple. On the calc front, it might be nice if the calc popped up a window which said Hey, can I switch to Complex mode? instead of just dumping. The operator should have been smart enough to figure that out also, but the operator was up till 2:30 studying, which was dumb. I'll remember that next time I feel like a marathon 49g lesson. Matt > I blame the book. This is a typo, plain and simple. Or the book was written for another ROM version? You wouldn't believe how much this type of behaviour has changed throughout the last 30 or so ROM revisions. > On the calc front, it might be nice if the calc popped up a window which > said Hey, can I switch to Complex mode? instead of just dumping. If your expression was 't^2-3*t+i' instead of 't^2-3*t+5', it would. I don't think it should even then (if QUAD imitates SOLVE), since one has definetely stated real mode. On the other hand, I don't think that QUAD should imitate SOLVE - it should function exactly as on the HP48G series, and return the exact same result, or not exist on the HP49G at all. It's an obvious error/typo. If you try to do it manually you'll see that it indeed does not factor down. Doug I just got my copy of the URROZ books. Like 'em so far, but..... One of the first examples (actually a psudo-example) is t^2-3t+5=0. > so you enter this on the stack: 2: t^2-3t+5=0 > 1:'t' > enter QUAD and I get QUAD Error: No soluntions found I have tried this several times and used the same key pattern out of the > book. If you see what I am fouling up, I'd appreciate it. Matt It's an obvious error/typo. If you try to do it manually you'll see that it > indeed does not factor down. And? It does have two numeric solutions (as all quadratics have). It works fine on the HP48GX (returning 't=(3+s1*(0,3.31662479036))/2'), so this is another incompatibility on the HP49G. Why expect it to work anyway? I've stopped to. I can get the same answer on the 49G. I apologize for not being more clear. What I should have said was that it wasn't a straight forward problem like normal quadratics in that you can factorialize the equation out to get the factors of 't'. You are right in that all quadratics have solutions, sorry for not being clear. In order to get the same thing on the 49G, you have to make sure the calculator is in complex mode and make sure flags 2 and 3 are clear. My machine was also in exact mode. The answer I got was: { 't=(3-i*SQRT(11))/2' 't=(3+i*SQRT(11))/2' } Doug > It's an obvious error/typo. If you try to do it manually you'll see that > it > indeed does not factor down. And? It does have two numeric solutions (as all quadratics have). It works > fine on the HP48GX (returning 't=(3+s1*(0,3.31662479036))/2'), so this is > another incompatibility on the HP49G. Why expect it to work anyway? I've stopped to. I'm a dufus. Last night when I looked at it I didn't even think to do it myself. Thats why I bought such a great calc! :) Matt > It's an obvious error/typo. If you try to do it manually you'll see that it > indeed does not factor down. > > Doug > > >>I just got my copy of the URROZ books. Like 'em so far, but..... >>One of the first examples (actually a psudo-example) is t^2-3t+5=0. >>so you enter this on the stack: >>2: t^2-3t+5=0 >>1:'t' >>enter QUAD >>and I get QUAD Error: No soluntions found >>I have tried this several times and used the same key pattern out of the >>book. If you see what I am fouling up, I'd appreciate it. >>Matt > > > I had an example in calc where we had to do some regression. No big deal right? Wrong, I keep getting an error back from the Calc. I hit right-shift and STAT, then go to fit data. I enter the data by going to EDAT and hit edit. I enter into the matrix editor the following: 0,540 50,390 100,390 150,430 200,425 250,360 300,275 350,125 400,0 And there it sits in EDAT. Then I used Exponential FIT, Power FIT, and BEST FIT. With Expo. AND Power FIT I get the following error: ERROR: Invalid E(summation) Data LN(0) AND Best Fit gives me a linear formula. The answer is a quartic (which I forgot to copy off the board!!!) This is disturbing as the TI83 had no problems with it. I would assume that either with additional software or the default stuff I could get the right answer. Matt > > I had an example in calc where we had to do some regression. No big deal > right? Wrong, I keep getting an error back from the Calc. > > I hit right-shift and STAT, then go to fit data. > > I enter the data by going to EDAT and hit edit. > > I enter into the matrix editor the following: > 0,540 > 50,390 > 100,390 > 150,430 > 200,425 > 250,360 > 300,275 > 350,125 > 400,0 > > And there it sits in EDAT. > > > Then I used Exponential FIT, Power FIT, and BEST FIT. > With Expo. AND Power FIT I get the following error: > ERROR: Invalid E(summation) Data LN(0) If any of the x values are zero, the LOG fit wont work because it requires calculation of LOG(0), similarly if any y values are zero the EXP fit reqires calculation of LOG(0). > > AND Best Fit gives me a linear formula. > > The answer is a quartic (which I forgot to copy off the board!!!) > > This is disturbing as the TI83 had no problems with it. I would assume > that either with additional software or the default stuff I could get > the right answer. > > Matt > There are a variety of polynomial-fitting libraries available at http://www.hpcalc.org/ FITn is probably the simplest of them. > 0,540 >......... > 400,0 > You can't use neither log fit nor power fit if x=0, as in you first data. The y=0 in the last one, makes you can't use neither exp nor power (again) fits. Clear these data and you'll be able... Hope this helps Does anyone have ny experience of using these AAA NiMH rechareable batteries in an HP48. The adertising blurb says they last twice as long as alkaline but what about their voltage? > Does anyone have ny experience of using these AAA NiMH rechareable batteries > in an HP48. The adertising blurb says they last twice as long as alkaline > but what about their voltage? I've used them in the 48 and in other devices. It's not true that they have twice the life on a charge as alkaline. It's more like 2/3 the life. Alkaline holds a charge quite a bit longer. Of course NiMH can be recharged. The reason I didn't keep using them is there are times I don't use my calculator for a month and NiMH self discharges. They're gone in a couple of weeks whether you use them or not. The problem with not getting enough notice when they're low isn't as severe as people make it sound. I've gotten warnings when I was away from the house and couldn't change the battery till I got home. I didn't use it as much till I got home later but I did use it some. It wasn't a problem. Barry > > Does anyone have ny experience of using these AAA NiMH rechareable batteries > in an HP48. The adertising blurb says they last twice as long as alkaline > but what about their voltage? They are great, the lower voltage doesn't affect the calc. -- This message was written with 100% recycled electrons Pivo > > Does anyone have ny experience of using these AAA NiMH rechareable batteries > in an HP48. The adertising blurb says they last twice as long as alkaline > but what about their voltage? > > They are great, the lower voltage doesn't affect the calc. read this: http://www.greenbatteries.com/documents/Battery_FAQ.htm#substitue It explains why - the lower voltage is not a problem - we have less time after the 'low battery' sign comes on the rest of the FAQ (and Myths) is highly recommended, too. Werner Except that a very careful user should have a spare set available, since there is only one minute or so left when the battery annuciator goes on. The alkalines have a straight line voltage curve and the NiCd/NiMH have a flatcurve with a quick drop at the end. Be careful out there! This message was written with 100% new positrons and it will self-annihilate in a picosecond :) Does anyone have ny experience of using these AAA NiMH rechareable batteries > in an HP48. The adertising blurb says they last twice as long as alkaline > but what about their voltage? They are great, the lower voltage doesn't affect the calc. -- > This message was written with 100% recycled electrons Pivo Is there a way to find the one-sided limit of a function? Our math class wants us to graph each equation and detemerine it my looking at it, but there must be a quicker way, as it becomes tedious to wait for the graph to finish. By a one-sided limit, I mean finding the limit of a function as you approach from the left or the right. --Andrew > Is there a way to find the one-sided limit of a function? Our math class > wants us to graph each equation and detemerine it my looking at it, but > there must be a quicker way, as it becomes tedious to wait for the graph to > finish. Take '1/X' as an example (try it out). '1/X' 'X=0' LIMIT -> unsigned inf '1/X' 'X=0+0' LIMIT -> +inf '1/X' 'X=0-0' LIMIT -> -inf Does the above make sense on its own? If not, please write again. By the way, I realise I can use the table of values, but that is also quite slow. I'm not sure I worded my question properly. By a one-sided limit, I mean: as you approach a point from each side, you are approaching different points, and a limit does not exist. Is there a way to find the point you are approaching from each side? In case anyone has a link to my HP38/39/40G site (The HP HOME view) please note that I now have a new address of http://www.hphomeview.com/ with a new look too. It's still under construction so if you notice any broken links etc please let me know. The content is pretty much the same as before, just organised a bit differently and with some outdated material removed. I am a newbie to writing programs and I am trying to write a program for both the Hp49 and the Ti89, and I need some help. I have looked all over the net and can't find an answer to my question. Here it is: I have a list stored in variable 'l1'as well as a list in 'l2', 'l3', and 'l4'. How do write the program to randomly pick a value out of list 'l1'? How about list 'l2', etc.? I have tried rand(), but that doesn't work. Any ideas, or am I going about it all wrong? EG (89): :{1,2,3,4}->l1 :{House, car, boat, bike}->l2 :{CO,AZ,UT,NY}->l3 :{Amy, Scott, Mike, Susan}->l4 :Disp ??????? It really was just about perfect for programming with the extra alphabetic keys. What made them go to a traditional form-factor for the 48? Britt 1636 What you guys think about the legally and the right of have an emulator in a palm? Rafael Palms are not equipped with Saturn so there is no fun! PLEASE, DONT BE A NUN. max. > > What you guys think about the legally and the right of have an emulator in a > palm? > > Rafael > Palms are not equipped with Saturn so there is no fun! > Interesting enough, tormenting my 49G (ID014XXXXX, bit more than one > year > old) to high contrast, I can detect a curtain-like pattern in the > upper 5 > or 6 pixel rows on the right half of the screen. > > Nick yes that is the effect on my screen aswell why is it when i this build project and send it to the emulator :: %28 ; it results in PTR 00000 on the stack intead of 28. this doesnt not happen when i use real numbers below 28 Syntax for real numbers is % . Reals always take 10.5 bytes. But there are buit-in reals wchich take only 2.5 bytes (values -8 .85 27) and its syntax is % . Ex: % 27. - takes 10.5 bytes. %27 - takes 2.5 bytes. Mihas. > why is it when i this build project and send it to the emulator :: > %28 > ; it results in PTR 00000 on the stack intead of 28. this doesnt not happen when i use real numbers below 28 > ...only 2.5 bytes (values -8 .85 27) ... sorry, should be -9 .85 27. There are also values from 28 .85 35 and some other but they are unsupported. Mihas. > There are also values from 28 .85 35 and some > other but they are unsupported. Nontheless, their pointers are stable (found e.g. in Bints&Reals on hpcalc.org). These pointer can - according to JYA - faithfully be used in the actual Rom (19-5) and all future ROMs. There are many more 2.5-bytes reals on the HP49, e.g. %.1, %.05, %.99, %50, %200 etc. All with stable pointers. Most of them should also be listed in the file cpltab which comes with the Emacs package. - Wolfgang I've done a SysRPL digital circuit simulator. It's based in a previour one done for the 48 in userRPL by Tony Duell. You can find it in www.hpcalc.org when it will be refreshed or in my web page ( www.arrakis.es/~lboisset ) Hope you like it. Luis. -- --------------------------------------- Luis Morales Boisset http://www.arrakis.es/~lboisset > I won't argue with John Meyers answer that gotos aren't useful when > in a stack oriented system. But I know of situations where gotos > are useful. The example below where various error conditions have to be checked > before processing begins can be done nicely without gotos but it's > clearer with gotos. I see nothing wrong with being anal about it > and saying gotos are bad so I won't use them even if they increase > clarity. but I use gotos in this situation. I was on the > committee that set coding standards for the company I worked for > and I had to fight pretty hard to get this included. What finally > did it was pointing out that the only argument anyone gave against > it amounted to gotos are bad. It was included not just as > acceptable but as the preferred method in this situation, which was > more than I asked for. // Check data for various error situations if (data == 27) > { errno = ERR_ESC; goto databad;} if (data == 0) > { errno = ERR_NULL; goto databad} if (data == various_other_error_values) > { errno = ERR_VARIOUS; goto databad} goto datagood: databad: > do_error_processing(errno); datagood: > do_processing(data); > . > . > Couldn't we do the same without goto? > MAIN > CASE > data 27 == THEN 27 DATABAD END > data 0 == THEN 0 DATABAD END > data varErr THEN -1 DATABAD END > DATAGOOD > END DATABAD contains then > << > -> errn > << DoSomethingWithErrNum DATAGOOD contains data processing. Yep! That works just fine. And it works as well in C. But in C I think my way is clearer. All the error checking is done first and the processing is done next. The two are seperated visually. It's just a cleaner way to code it. But I'm really only talking about C. I wouldn't suggest a goto for sysrpl. It would probably be difficult to implement and not worthwhile. In Basic or ASM gotos are a natural part of the language and in ASM they're essential. I think a statement like Gotos are always bad is similar to telling a child Don't ride your bike in the street. It has it's place but they outgrow the need for it. Barry snip > I think a statement like Gotos are always bad is similar to > telling a child Don't ride your bike in the street. It has it's > place but they outgrow the need for it. Agree, general rules are just to general for not having any exceptions. (The dosis makes the poison.) Nick Does any one knows where I can find information related to how I can create and handle graphics in a userRPL program. I am trying to create a statistic one (connected scatter) from a list. I already know that I must transform this list in a matrix, but I have no idea what I do after that. Rafael (as JYA I also think that ML is smarter than G. Bush ) Does any one knows where I can find information related to how I can create and > handle graphics in a userRPL program. A good place to start is the user manual (48 or online) > I am trying to create a statistic one > (connected scatter) from a list. I already know that I must transform this list > in a matrix, but I have no idea what I do after that. store it as sigmaDAT (sigma is sum sign) then ERASE SCATTER DRAX DRAW PICTURE > (as JYA I also think that ML is smarter than G. Bush ) Solid! -- This message was written entirely with recycled electrons Pivo > > Does any one knows where I can find information related to how I can create and > handle graphics in a userRPL program. I am trying to create a statistic one > (connected scatter) from a list. I already know that I must transform this list > in a matrix, but I have no idea what I do after that. > > Rafael > (as JYA I also think that ML is smarter than G. Bush ) The AUR for the HP48GX is a good place to start with, as it describes all drawing commands of the HP49G. May I send you a brief description Nick >May I send you a brief description I am finishing the 16 Mb download of the 48 manual, so I think that will not be necessery (if you already have it done there is no problem). Rafael I think what you have downloaded isn't the AUR, it's just the User's Guide which comes with 48G series and it's very good for most purposes but not for learning USER RPL at all. Try buying the AUR. Ricardo. >May I send you a brief description > I am finishing the 16 Mb download of the 48 manual, so I think that will not be > necessery (if you already have it done there is no problem). Rafael -- http://xie121.infovia.xtec.es/~rblasco Un.92os, hermanos linuxeros I have just submitted: L.I.C. (Library Installer Creator) to www.hpcalc.org. L.I.C. is a program meant to make installing libraries easy for new hp49 users. This program is very fast and simple to use. simply run the program and enter the name of the variable where your library is stored and select any of the installation options you want. L.I.C. will output a custom EzInstall program for your library in the current directory under the name: EzInst.#### where #### is your Lib's ID. L.I.C. can be very useful to new-users, making thier lives easier, and useful to you as a software developer, making more people want to download your software because it is so easy to install. Currently the availible installation options are: -Replace -Install -Attach -Self-Purge (Either after confirmation or auto.) See the readme for complete info. I would like to know what this group thinks about this type of program. Suggestions are welcome. If you would like to get this program before its available at www.hpcalc.org, -John Mart, II P.S. If anyone realy likes this idea and would like to incorporate LIC I was curious as to if there was a way to have the 49 evaluate one-sided limits that one could explicitly specify, using the LIMIT command or some other function, perhaps even a third-party program? For example, if I wanted to evaluate '1/X' as X approaches 0 from the left or negative side (-oo), or as X approaches 0 from the positive BTW, I am running ROM 1.19-5 w/ Bernard Parisse's CAS revisions if that is of any relevance. Do 'X=0+0' or 'X=0-0' for left or right handed limits at 0. Does anyone know whether you can do something similar to this using the LIMIT function built into the CAS of the HP40G? When I try LIMIT(1/X,0-0) it asks whether I want to do an Unsigned inf. solve? YES/NO and, no matter what I reply, gives positive infinity as the answer. > Do 'X=0+0' or 'X=0-0' for left or right handed limits at 0. > -- Colin Croft Old mathematicians never die; they just lose some of their functions. Applications in Mathematics ccroft@iinet.net.au http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/ > Do 'X=0+0' or 'X=0-0' for left or right handed limits at 0. OK, so if I had '1/(X-3)', and wanted to evaluate left and right hand limits, would I do 'X=3+0' or 'X=3-0'? Seems to work fine as I just tested it now on my 49. Can I use this for all one sided limits? > > Does anyone know whether you can do something similar to this > using the LIMIT function built into the CAS of the HP40G? When > I try LIMIT(1/X,0-0) it asks whether I want to do an Unsigned > inf. solve? YES/NO and, no matter what I reply, gives positive > infinity as the answer. > Try QUOTE(0-0) Do 'X=0+0' or 'X=0-0' for left or right handed limits at 0. OK, so if I had '1/(X-3)', and wanted to evaluate left and right hand > limits, would I do 'X=3+0' or 'X=3-0'? Seems to work fine as I just > tested it now on my 49. Can I use this for all one sided limits? Yes, you can. Bye! -- Beto Does anyone know whether you can do something similar to this > using the LIMIT function built into the CAS of the HP40G? When > I try LIMIT(1/X,0-0) it asks whether I want to do an Unsigned > inf. solve? YES/NO and, no matter what I reply, gives positive > infinity as the answer. > Try QUOTE(0-0) -- Colin Croft Old mathematicians never die; they just lose some of their functions. Applications in Mathematics ccroft@iinet.net.au http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/ i have started making a program in sysrpl that will simply bounce a grob around the screen. what i have done so far is the code to determine the position of the grob in pixels, :: TURNMENUOFF %7 %7 % 110 %10 10 0 DO SWAP 4 PICK %+ DUP %0 %<= ITE :: xNEG SWAP 4 ROLL xNEG 4 UNROLL ; :: DUP % 124 %>= ITE :: % 248 SWAP %- SWAP 4 ROLL xNEG 4 UNROLL ; :: SWAP ; ; 3 PICK %+ DUP %0 %<= ITE :: 3 ROLL xNEG 3 UNROLL xNEG ; :: DUP % 57 %>= IT :: 3 ROLL xNEG 3 UNROLL % 114 SWAP %- ; ; ( code to place grob on the screen ) LOOP TURNMENUON ; what i want to know is how to take the first to values on the stack and produce a grob at that position. and also how to make a grob in sysrpl like the userrpl GROB 7 7 C122... how do i use the ITE command ive been reading programming in sysrpl, and it gives the following flag ITE i want to know how do use this if there is more than one object you want executed if the flag is ture or false, the example in the book only shows with single objects > how do i use the ITE command > ive been reading programming in sysrpl, and it gives the following flag ITE i want to know how do use this if there is more than one object you > want executed if the flag is ture or false, if you have more than one command to execute then make a secondary: :: ; Example: takes a real and adds 3. if it's equal to 7. otherwise subtracts 3. (Without checking arguments) :: DUP %7 %= ITE :: %3 %+ ; :: %3 %- ; ; Bye! -- Beto >flag ITE i want to know how do use this if there is more than one object you >want executed if the flag is ture or false, > ITE works only with single objects, thus: :: @ first part of program flag ITE :: bunch of true statements ; :: bunch of false statements ; @ rest of program ; Dennis brian schreef: > how do i use the ITE command > ive been reading programming in sysrpl, and it gives the following flag ITE i want to know how do use this if there is more than one object you > want executed if the flag is ture or false, the example in the book only shows with single objects So make it one object :-) EG :: DUP 4 #= ITE :: 5 #* UNCOERCE ; :: DUP #* ; this returns 20 if there is a bint 4 on the stack or else the square of the bint (I know this is completely useless but it shows you hot ITE works) -- This message was entirely written with recycled electrons Pivo most certainly is the first step towards a solution :) Ray > > << 'i' 'wb' * = SUBST SOLVE > > Ok, this makes sense. I'm in a hurry now, so I can't give you a SysRPL > answer. When I return tomorrow, someone else might have answered :-) > > > << 'i' 'wb' * = SUBST SOLVE > Actually, there is a typo. It should be << 'i' 'wb' * = SUBST 'wb' SOLVE >> Ray << 'i' 'wb' * = SUBST SOLVE > Actually, there is a typo. It should be << 'i' 'wb' * = SUBST 'wb' SOLVE >> without any error checking, :: SYMBOL xi @ Didn't try with just ID i ; ' ID wb x* x= FPTR2 ^FLAGSYMBEXEC ' ID wb FPTR2 ^SOLVE1EQ ; Bye! -- Beto Not quite what it turned out to be after some flicking, but very useful Ray > << 'i' 'wb' * = SUBST SOLVE > Actually, there is a typo. It should be << 'i' 'wb' * = SUBST 'wb' SOLVE > > without any error checking, > > :: > SYMBOL > xi @ Didn't try with just ID i > ; > ' > ID wb > x* > x= > FPTR2 ^FLAGSYMBEXEC > ' > ID wb > FPTR2 ^SOLVE1EQ > ; > > Bye! > -- > Beto just wondering, how do the speeds of each compare with each other? and is there a speed difference in hp basic and user rpl?? in ASM you can run DOOM in sysRPL you can run TETRIS (a very bad one) in RPL you can run nothing. bye AnsNum > just wondering, how do the speeds of each compare with each other? and is there a speed difference in hp basic and user rpl?? > in ASM you can run DOOM > in sysRPL you can run TETRIS (a very bad one) > in RPL you can run nothing. I know a few more: Safety: in RPL you can't get a TTRM in sysRPL you can get a TTRM in ASM you can get a TTRM easily Learning curve: RPL is learned in a few days sysRPL is learned in a few weeks ASM is learned in a few months Exitement: RPL is dull sysRPL is nice ASM is fun Program size: RPL is like Earth sysRPL is like Mars ASM is like Neptune Power to do stuff: RPL is like Milosevic sysRPL is like Blair ASM is like Bush Any more? -- This message was written entirely with recycled electrons Pivo UserRPL can be much smaller and faster in size than a ML program one. This for example: World 1 DISP >> I bet you wan't do much faster in ML and it will be surely much bigger. Every language has its own use. Regarding Pivo's comparison, if ML is like Bush, then I will not program in ML anymore ever ! At least a ML program can learn on its own (sometime) :) > in ASM you can run DOOM > in sysRPL you can run TETRIS (a very bad one) > in RPL you can run nothing. bye > AnsNum just wondering, how do the speeds of each compare with each other? and is there a speed difference in hp basic and user rpl?? > Regarding Pivo's comparison, if ML is like Bush, then I will not program in > ML anymore ever ! I was expecting an American to response to this but I guess working for HP has made you feel some kinship with them. > At least a ML program can learn on its own (sometime) :) Do you mean you can program artificial intelligence into a saturn? Next time the Floridians will have to vote for a V'GER then :-) -- This message was written entirely with recycled electrons Pivo > just wondering, how do the speeds of each compare with each other? and is there a speed difference in hp basic and user rpl?? In general, you can assume: speed(ASM) >= speed(sysRPL) >= speed(userRPL) >= speed(HP Basic) The difference in speed mainly comes from doing things more directly. But this is not always possible (look at the post of JYA). To really know, how much faster a program in another language is, you have to rewrite it, using all specific abilities of that language. Just some suggestions for possible improvements while translating from one to another language: UserRPL is really faster than HP Basic, if stack calculations and manipulations instead of variables are used. SysRPL is really faster than UserRPL, if non-user-words (wich do not check arguments), the broader set of runstream manipulations and internal routines (wich are not directly accessible via UserRPL) are used. ASM is really faster than SysRPL, if a problem needs a specific, not already implemented routine, respectivly if a solution in SysRPL would be more like a workaround with a lot of unnecessary data copying, conversion etc. If you do the same thing in different languages, there's no speed difference at all. The sequence ... ^ * + ... in a UserRPL program does exactly the same as ... x^ x* x+ would do in SysRPL, so there's no speed difference. If you would copy the underlying subroutines (wich are written in ASM), put them together in one code object (wich will become very long), again: (almost) no speed difference. > If you do the same thing in different languages, there's no speed > difference at all. > The sequence ... ^ * + ... in a UserRPL program does exactly the same as > ... x^ x* x+ would do in SysRPL, so there's no speed difference. This is true because x^ is just the pointer to ^ BUT...... + does this :: CK2&Dispatch <11h> %+ ; so if you are sure there are two reals on the stack you can use %+ which is faster because it has no error checking(CK2&Dispatch) -- This message was written entirely with recycled electrons Pivo > The sequence ... ^ * + ... in a UserRPL program does exactly the same as > ... x^ x* x+ would do in SysRPL, so there's no speed difference. This is true because x^ is just the pointer to ^ BUT...... + does this > :: > CK2&Dispatch > <11h %+ > so if you are sure there are two reals on the stack you can use %+ > which is faster because it has no error checking(CK2&Dispatch) > Yes, of course. That's exactly what I meant. Speed comes only from leaving unnecessary things away. This option, you don't have in UserRPL. That's because SysRPL can be faster. But in a nother thread in this NG was a discussion about the translation from << 'i' 'wb' * = SUBST 'wb' SOLVE >> to SysRPL: :: SYMBOL xi ; ' ID wb x* x= FPTR2 ^FLAGSYMBEXEC ' ID wb FPTR2 ^SOLVE1EQ ; wich is the same as above, except the missing UserRPL program delimiters. So, I guessed, there are people thinking: say it in another language and everything goes faster! > UserRPL can be much smaller and faster in size than a ML program one. This for example: World > 1 DISP I bet you wan't do much faster in ML and it will be surely much bigger. It depends on how you measure big. If you consider just the part you write, you're right. But if you consider everything that happens when this program runs... all the code that is executed... this program is probably 1000 times larger than it would be in ML. As for speed, I think this would be a lot slower but I think it would be hard to find anyone who really cared. :) Barry Yes, of course. > That's exactly what I meant. Speed comes only from leaving unnecessary things > away. The greatest speed advantage of ML is that you can do things in a way that's more keyed to the way the cpu actually works. More and different algorithms are available. problem than in terms of the hardware. They do this by providing tools that are more related to the problem. You do things in the way that are more efficient for you and less efficient for the hardware. A lot of CPU power goes into making the calculator seem like a calculator. Barry > As for speed, I think this would be a lot slower but I think it > would be hard to find anyone who really cared. :) I do! I trade bytes for milliseconds all the time on the HP49G. It's simply too slow if you don't care. Even then, my programs, even hard math ones, aren't larger than 3-6 kb a piece. I often run large loops of small code-bits coded in different ways, to see which approach is faster. I always choose the fastest I know of. This speed-enhancement will of course not interfere with the thoroughness of the programs. > Regarding Pivo's comparison, if ML is like Bush, then I will not program in > ML anymore ever ! > At least a ML program can learn on its own (sometime) :) > Oh, PLEEAASE. Typical European response to typical media coverage that really has no basis in reality... AL > Regarding Pivo's comparison, if ML is like Bush, then I will not program > in > ML anymore ever ! > At least a ML program can learn on its own (sometime) :) > Oh, PLEEAASE. Typical European response to typical media coverage that > really has no basis in reality... MDR :-) -- Pierre Tardy -- Le site de Cowsoft: Mouse-Office, Splash!!!, ResFinderPro, Pretty, PPCEdit, QDTetris,... > Oh, PLEEAASE. Typical European response to typical media coverage that > really has no basis in reality... It has nothing to do with media, but it has something to do with Europeans. We do know Mr. Bush's opinion about NATO & the UN/EU. He even backed out of the environment agreement. He is destroying, it seems, what Clinton build. You guys are talking about speeding up a program, but how much do you think is a good parameter? 50% of increase? Recently I improved userRPL program letting it 67% faster and 20% smaller. To test I remade it in sysRPL and I dindn't got much better then the userRPL one. Rafael - The Universe is relative >sysRPL is like Mars Here's the HP Journal issue fully dedicated to the HP-71B: http://library.hp41.org/Library/Files/ppc/hp_journal/hp8407.pdf http://www.hpmuseum.org/journals/journals.htm Notice that in the MoHPC CD set, along with the HP-71 Reference and Owner's manuals (CD 2), there are important documents in CD 5 (IDS) and CD 3 (Forth). More links: http://www.hpcc.org/links.html#hp71 Hope this helps, and please let us know of any good web-sites you find for this machine. - [Sorry if dup!] > Does anyone know of any websites with programs/documentation/etc. on the > HP-71b? I got the HP Museum manuals for the 71, but I would like to get > more! published in Datafile (and other journals) during the late 1980s and early 1990s. For instance, look at the contents of Volume 9: http://www.hpcc.org/datafilev09.html Also, you should try and get a copy of Joe Horn's excellent book about Titan: HP-71 Basic Made Easy. Here's the HP Journal issue fully dedicated to the HP-71B: http://library.hp41.org/Library/Files/ppc/hp_journal/hp8407.pdf http://www.hpmuseum.org/journals/journals.htm Notice that in the MoHPC CD set, along with the HP-71 Reference and Owner's manuals (CD 2), there are important documents in CD 5 (IDS) and CD 3 member #1046 -- > OK, here is the AUTOWRAP program. Quite simple because the > CutStrWidth entry does the hard work. Why change the name of the entry points ? StrCutNchr > Please note that the *real* name of CURSOR_OFF should be CURSOR_OFFSET, and has nothing to do with turning off the cursor Extable has been modified? Latest ROM still 1.19-6? I have this but it seems that it had a little > update (CAS?) and the number wasn't changed. Any new program for programming or a utility that's worth mentioning? something) I am sure that eventually all calculator makers will succumb to something like a PDA type of gadget. Eventually someone (if not already) will write software for the PDA that will be able to do everything any calculator can do. Personally, the only reason why I got an HP49 was because I have absolutely no need for a PDA otherwise I would probably taken a closer look onto PDA and Scientific Calculator Software. Further more, if calculators like the HP 49G do not improve on their speed when grapping, solving equations etc, their dead will come even sooner. For example, I though that the 49G will run circles around the 48GX concerning speed but I found out they are both darn slow. Baaaaaaad. For now, I think HP49 it's the best thing that happen to me concerning calculators :) > http://education.ti.com/global/promo/voyage200.html > even using the imaginary i inside a loop running with the > local variable i would not matter :-) > Well, not in a SysRPL program, but Veli-Pekka and I were > referring to a UserRPL program. Me too! I'm not at all talking on SysRPL here. You will > see it from the genuine UsrRPL program below. Huh? In that program the i is clearly the loop index local variable, not the function i for the imaginary number. > All hithertoo presented UsrRPL-programs for the problem of > preference-orderings do not solve it completely, As far as I can tell, my 329 byte program solves it completely. > besides of > that the programming style of all this is not yet the best. Well, programming style is a matter of opinion. What are we looking for? Fastest? Smallest? Executes in smallest amount of memory? Which calculator(s) do(es) it have to work on? Do we time it when using a huge argument list or a modest sized list of about 20 elements? Are the elements thousands of bytes each or tens of bytes each? > I write down here a UsrRPL-program for solving the problem > which indeed meets all conditions. In particular, observe > the condition that list L below can contain *any* 49-objects. > For instance, libraries, fonts etc. Let me repeat: INPUT: > 2: A non-empty list L of a r b i t r a r y HP49-objects. > 1: A non-empty list P of valid positions in the list L. > OUTPUT: A list L' representing a reorder of L such that > objects with positions in P are coming first (the prefered > ones), the other objects in L' remain in previous order. The assumption that L and P are non-empty is by no means > essential. One may easily discard these restrictions by > considering some small extra-cases. It doesn't matter whether > the numbers in P are reals or zints. As Veli-Pekka noticed, zints give an incorrect result in your program; you really do need the I->R command in there. > The pi in the program > below denotes the small greek pi, not a real. pi comes from > permutation. Remember, the task essentially reduces to > completing list P to a suitable permutation of the indices > 1,...,Size(L). That will be created in the local pi below. A special notice to Jonathan who doesn't own a HP49: Besides the > UsrRPL UNPICK, there are several other new UsrRPL stack commands, > e.g., PICK3, UNROT, NIP (= SWAPDROP). Therefore, the following > program is portable to the 48 only after some modification. << -> pi > << DUP SIZE 1. OVER > FOR i i pi OVER POS > IF NOT > THEN 'pi' OVER STO+ > END PICK3 pi ROT GET GET UNROT > NEXT > >> NIP ->LIST That's all! 107 bytes, CRC # BC68h. CRC? I guess that's not the same as the checksum returned by BYTES? After checking it over several times, I still get # C48Ah, 107 BYTES. > Let me end with some hints on what (IMHO) characterizes an > elegant and good style UsrRPL program: > 1. Avoid list commands if something can easier and > more efficiently be done in a loop. Well, this one's debatable. Personally, I find it easier to use a loop than DOLIST and it's relatives, but others may well find DOLIST easier, and certainly a program that uses DOLIST will be smaller than a program that uses a loop instead. > 2. Make clauses between IF...THEN and THEN...END as > small as possible. Best only a single command. This > also holds for other structures including IFERR... Well, I used IF m n == NOT THEN; I could've used m n IF == NOT THEN just as well, but I really wouldn't like m n == IF NOT THEN as well. Note that the location of the IF makes absolutely no difference in the size of the program, and, so long as the entire IF...END structure is within a single clause of any other program structure, it's just a matter of making the program easier to understand. Keeping the clauses in THEN...ELSE...END or THEN...END to a single object does save 5 bytes per clause, so it's nice when I can conveniently do that, but I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over having long clauses when it makes sense to do so. Unlike IF, the location of IFERR is significant, and having only a single object between IFERR and THEN makes it very clear exactly which object we're checking, and any objects to be skipped if an error occurs are better placed after an ELSE for clarity and bug prevention, even though it might take a few more bytes. > 3. Use small names for variables. For locals, one symbol > is sufficient, in general. > 4. Avoid local variables if the stack will not become too > involved during execution. Stack operations are faster. > 5. Draw your task as a flow-diagram, programming first > small subtasks which lateron are put together. That also a more involed UsrRPL program should carefully be > commented and documented is obvious. I chose to copy and paste my program to the newsgroup exactly as uploaded from the calculator to avoid any typing errors and make it easy for anyone to download. As for figuring out how it works, I left that as an exercise for the reader. -- James > Well, not in a SysRPL program, but Veli-Pekka and I were > referring to a UserRPL program. > Me too! I'm not at all talking on SysRPL here. You will > see it from the genuine UsrRPL program below. > > Huh? In that program the i is clearly the loop index local > variable, not the function i for the imaginary number. James, isn't it obvious where the misunderstanding comes from? Veli replaced my i by j. And I only stressed that one may use i as a counter-variable in FOR...NEXT structure, even if the arguments of a program contain the constant i somewhere else. > All hithertoo presented UsrRPL-programs for the problem of > preference-orderings do not solve it completely, > As far as I can tell, my 329 byte program solves it completely. OK, I didn't run it, sorry. A 329 bytes program for something which can be done with 80 bytes seems to be a bit too much :-) > that the programming style of all this is not yet the best. > Well, programming style is a matter of opinion. What are we > looking for? Fastest? Smallest? Executes in smallest amount of > memory? Don't exaggerate! An experienced programmer like you has some feeling on what is good UsrRPL style programming and what is not. Please compare Nick's and Veli's (original) aproach to my completely different approach. Clearly, I make mistakes (as does everybody) and such a mistake was the omitting of I->R. But I would not not classify it as a serious bug, the more the 48 has no zints. In contrast to my, the mistake in the approach of Nick/Veli is a basic one. > 1. Avoid list commands if something can easier and > more efficiently be done in a loop. > Well, this one's debatable. No, it is not! Some list commands are too slow, in particular DOLIST and DOSUBS. These may be useful for some small private programs, but no professional programmer - and there a few, at least for the 48 - would ever use them. > 2. Make clauses between IF...THEN and THEN...END as > small as possible. Best only a single command. This > also holds for other structures including IFERR... > Well, I used IF m n == NOT THEN; I could've used > m n IF == NOT THEN just as well, but I really wouldn't like > m n == IF NOT THEN as well. Why not? This is as clear as your clause and saves you 5 bytes! IMHO, it makes the clause by no means more difficult to read. In the contrary, it emphazises what the THEN really expects. > Unlike IF, the location of IFERR is significant, and having only > a single object between IFERR and THEN makes it very clear > exactly which object we're checking, and any objects to be > skipped if an error occurs are better placed after an ELSE for > clarity and bug prevention, even though it might take a few more > bytes. Unfortunately, it is not always possible to include just a single object between IFERR and THEN. Clearly, for IFFERR 0 WAIT THEN ... to be trapped of more or less the same kind, it is more economical to trap them in a single composed object. This is, what the basic POLs (Parametrized Outer Loops) generally do. > I chose to copy and paste my program to the newsgroup exactly as > uploaded from the calculator to avoid any typing errors and make > it easy for anyone to download. As for figuring out how it > works, I left that as an exercise for the reader. Yes, this is what I generally estimate in your postings - and your perfect style in comments and critics. I would be happy if I'd know English better to state things more clearly :-) Wolfgang X > that the programming style of all this is not yet the best. > Well, programming style is a matter of opinion. What are we > looking for? Fastest? Smallest? Executes in smallest amount of > memory? Don't exaggerate! An experienced programmer like you has some > feeling on what is good UsrRPL style programming and what is not. > Please compare Nick's and Veli's (original) aproach to my completely > different approach. Clearly, I make mistakes (as does everybody) and > such a mistake was the omitting of I->R. But I would not not classify > it as a serious bug, the more the 48 has no zints. In contrast to my, > the mistake in the approach of Nick/Veli is a basic one. I think that the basic one is more of about English/problem understanding OR can you explain more clearly what was the basic mistake of Nick/Veli Without an example like this: { A B C D E } { 3 2 1 } << program >> { C B A D E } It's very hard to understand what the program does. 2) Isn't it not the _speed_ on big lists what we are looking for now? 1. Put the empty list on level 1. Press Sys~ on it. You see > { > } > @ I seem to be missing something here -- I don't seem to have any menu labeled Sys~ on my calculator, and entering Sys~ from the command line just puts 'Sys~' on level 1. Do I need yet another library for this to work? > Ofcourse with one stack level spared using this version > we can merge back with Wolfgang's version and get this: > << I->R 1. PICK3 SIZE > FOR j j DUP2 POS IF NOT > THEN SWAP OVER + SWAP END > PICK3 PICK3 ROT GET GET UNROT > NEXT DROP SIZE ->LIST >> Apart from the slow and dispensable I->R - the UsrRPL GET command does accept zints, no matter whether in exact mode or not - the above is the best UsrRPL solurion I've seen so far. It avoids locals completely. > Nick could do some testing with ALL the versions > including the old ones Not necessary. Nick's program does not do what we expect, (see Tom Sears's post to the problem). AND Veli, at least YOU should have noticed that :-) > Apart from the slow and dispensable I->R - the UsrRPL GET > command does accept zints, no matter whether in exact > mode or not - the above is the best UsrRPL solurion > I've seen so far. It avoids locals completely. Really? so what is the j there then ? :) > ... It avoids locals completely. > Really? so what is the j there then ? :) Hahaha... OK, the j is not my but Veli's creation. I used the imaginary i in my original program :-) Clearly, in reality, the i or j is a local, but not a user-made one. Only the OS defines it as a local. I guess that most normal users do not realize that the j is simply a named local, but think - as I did in my early days with the 48 - that is is some builtin counter of the OS. The following seems to be the ultimate and fastest 49-UsrRPL-program for our problem: << I->R 1. PICK3 SIZE FOR i i DUP2 POS NOT { SWAP OVER + SWAP } IFT PICK3 PICK3 ROT GET GET UNROT NEXT DROP SIZE ->LIST >> 81.5 bytes, CRC 8B40h. I returned intensionally to the local i in order to underline that i can be used as a counter. Processing with OT49/->XU saves 5 bytes only. NOTE: In contrast to the IF...THEN...END clause, the IFT does probably not check whether CANCEL is pressed during execution. Thus, if the above program has been started with huge input and you're becoming impatient, the run cannot simply be interrupted with the CANCEL key. menu with some additional UsrRPL-Stack commands. That makes UsrRPL-programming much more eventful :-) Candidates are OVER2 (1 2 3 4 -> 1 2 3 4 1 2), same as PICK3 PICK3 SWAP2 (1 2 3 4 -> 3 4 1 2), same as 4 ROLL 4 ROLL SWAPOVER ( 1 2 -> 2 1 2) - Wolfgang PS FOR THE NORMAL USER. Most UsrRPL-commands are listed in the internal library 2, with more than 400 commands. You can get the complete list with LofRP from Libman. The last seven commands in this list (ROM 19-6) are the new 49 stack-commands UNROT, UNPICK, NIP, PICK3, DUPDUP, NDUPN and - somewhat lonely at the end - FAST3D. Special notice for James: Load the latest OT49 8.2002. > ... It avoids locals completely. > Really? so what is the j there then ? :) Hahaha... OK, the j is not my but Veli's creation. > I used the imaginary i in my original program :-) Clearly, in reality, the i or j is a local, but not a > user-made one. Only the OS defines it as a local. I guess > that most normal users do not realize that the j is simply > a named local, but think - as I did in my early days with > the 48 - that is is some builtin counter of the OS. The following seems to be the ultimate and fastest > 49-UsrRPL-program for our problem: << > I->R 1. PICK3 SIZE > FOR i i DUP2 POS NOT { SWAP OVER + SWAP } IFT > PICK3 PICK3 ROT GET GET UNROT > NEXT DROP SIZE ->LIST 81.5 bytes, CRC 8B40h. I returned intensionally to the > local i in order to underline that i can be used as a > counter. Processing with OT49/->XU saves 5 bytes only. Hmm...since JYA declared that j or i IS a local name - although build into the language - I will use it !! << I->R 1. PICK3 SIZE FOR j DUP2 j POS DUP IF NOT THEN DROP j END GET UNROT NEXT DROP SIZE ->LIST >> BYTES => # 125Ah 76. Same with IFT << I->R 1. PICK3 SIZE FOR j DUP2 j POS DUP NOT { DROP j } IFT GET UNROT NEXT DROP SIZE ->LIST >> BYTES => #AF91h 71. AND To tease you all: I got an even better one, which I will reveal later to let you all to use more of your brains. << secret code to be revealed later >> BYTES # 33F1h 69.5 I DARE YOU TO BEAT THAT ONE !! The following seems to be the ultimate and fastest > 49-UsrRPL-program for our problem: << > I->R 1. PICK3 SIZE > FOR i i DUP2 POS NOT { SWAP OVER + SWAP } IFT > PICK3 PICK3 ROT GET GET UNROT > NEXT DROP SIZE ->LIST 81.5 bytes, CRC 8B40h. I returned intensionally to the > local i in order to underline that i can be used as a > counter. Processing with OT49/->XU saves 5 bytes only. X Is this cheating? :) << I->R 1. PICK3 SIZE FOR j j DUP2 POS NOT { + LASTARG NIP } IFT PICK3 PICK3 ROT GET GET UNROT NEXT DROP SIZE ->LIST >> BYTES => # 77E5h 79. << > I->R 1. PICK3 SIZE > FOR j j DUP2 POS NOT { + LASTARG NIP } IFT > PICK3 PICK3 ROT GET GET UNROT > NEXT DROP SIZE ->LIST > BYTES => # 77E5h 79. Does that work if flag -55 is set? Is this cheating? :) > << > I->R 1. PICK3 SIZE > FOR j j DUP2 POS NOT { + LASTARG NIP } IFT > PICK3 PICK3 ROT GET GET UNROT > NEXT DROP SIZE ->LIST > BYTES => # 77E5h 79. Does that work if flag -55 is set? So it is cheating ! and with j instead of i the BYTES is # 2665h 79. I will give a better one in another thread > Ofcourse with one stack level spared using this version > we can merge back with Wolfgang's version and get this: > << I->R 1. PICK3 SIZE > FOR j j DUP2 POS IF NOT > THEN SWAP OVER + SWAP END > PICK3 PICK3 ROT GET GET UNROT > NEXT DROP SIZE ->LIST Apart from the slow and dispensable I->R - the UsrRPL GET > command does accept zints, no matter whether in exact But the POS command distinquishes zints and reals, so it will not find them without I->R at the beginning. AND professor, at least YOU should have noticed that :-) > mode or not - the above is the best UsrRPL solurion > I've seen so far. It avoids locals completely. > Nick could do some testing with ALL the versions > including the old ones Not necessary. Nick's program does not do what we expect, > (see Tom Sears's post to the problem). AND Veli, at least > YOU should have noticed that :-) But I think it might be slower? OK, you're right - it doesn't work, so speedy wrong answers don't count. There are times when even a Jedi with an apprentice still have to learn from a Jedi-Master, but sometimes - only sometimes - a Master could learn from a Jedi. h/15+h=(h-1)*(h^2/h-2)/h^2 i would like to solve it that i get the result for h. is it possible >or is it too much for the hp49? h = 0.70759 h = 0.11495 + 1.62376 i h = 0.11495 - 1.62376 i Maybe a suggestion for a future release of a filer program. Sometimes I wish it were possible to quickly move the selection by using an alpha key, i.e. ALPHA-S would jump to the first object starting with an S. My port 2 memory is getting quite a little overcrowded, having such a feature could be nice (now, am I lazy?). Of course it would only work if the files are sorted. Not sure if it really would be an usefull addition, just a thought. publically available. I hope I can someday add something to HPCalc as a counter effort. No bad idea. Since alpha-keys are eliminated in Filer1 and Filer2, they're disposable. But it may be that such a Filer, Filer3 say, will be twice as large as Filer1, perhaps 2 KB (because I then must handle 26 shifted keys). Would you accept that? Why it should only work if files are sorted? In the contrary, it should work if the files are unsorted, isn't it? There is another proposal by CD, to make the keys 0, 1, 2 and . (dot) working as direct entries to the three ports and to HOME, resp. What do other people think on this? Clearly, it would also be possible to activate the numeric keys for doing some arithmetic during the filer's run. But this would perhaps be an exaggeration because Filer1 is easily suspended with P (PAUSE). For me, that wouldn't be a problem. I'm not a very well organized person, a few KB's more doesn't make me worry ;-). > Why it should only work if files are sorted? In the contrary, it should > work if the files are unsorted, isn't it? Absolutely. It would be even better if that wouldn't be a constraint. I thought it might be harder to do this with a unsorted list as it would mean that you'll have to hop-skip-jump through it after every alpha keypress. But if it doesn't make it harder, it would be great. Another thing to maybe think about is whether you always do the selecting on the objectname, or let it depend on the current sort-mode - object name or object type. Second option sounds a little more logic to me. > There is another proposal by CD, to make the keys 0, 1, 2 and . (dot) > working as direct entries to the three ports and to HOME, resp. What > do other people think on this? That sounds like a usefull addition to me, too. Most of the time I use the filer for copying things from a port to the user memory, quick access to a port would makes that a breeze. > Clearly, it would also be possible to activate the numeric keys for > doing some arithmetic during the filer's run. But this would perhaps be > an exaggeration because Filer1 is easily suspended with P (PAUSE). I don't know if I would use such a function. Actually, I don't know for what I would use it. But, that might be because I'm not a real 'power-user'. = abc Next Previous Contents ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11. Appendix C: Details of Bugs 11.1 The EquationWriter Bug Rev E Behaviour Clear flag -53 first (the Precedence Flag). On a Rev E, put '((1+2)/(3+4))^5' on the stack and press down-arrow. You'll see: 5 / 1+2 | --- | (A) 3+4 / which is as it should be. But now press [orange-shift] [+]; see the message Implicit () off momentarily; press [left-arrow] (not backspace), then press the [EXIT] softkey. The expression gets mangled into this: 1+2 ----------- (B) (5) (3+4) which is not equal to expression (A) above! Bug, yes? Press ON to abort the process. Now set flag -53, then repeat the above procedure. First you see: 5 / 1+2 | --- | (C) 3+4 / which is the same as (A) above; but continuing as before, you see: (5) / 1+2 | ----- | (D) (3+4) / which is equal to the original. Thus the bug can be worked around by keeping flag -53 set (not a pleasant solution). Rev J Behaviour Major difference: after pressing down-arrow, Rev J goes directly into graphic mode, so you have to press ON and then EXIT to get into the equation editor (which Rev E goes directly into). But that's petty cash compared to the following big change. The same sequence of operations, first with flag -53 clear, then set, exactly as detailed above, yields these four displays in a Rev J: 5 / (1+2) | ----- | (A') 3+4 / (notice the extra parentheses?) and then: 5 / (1+2) | ----- | (B') (3+4) / which is equal to (A'); nothing at all like expression (B) above! and then: 5 / (1+2) | ----- | (C') 3+4 / which is the same as (A') above; and then: 5 / (1+2) | ----- | (D') (3+4) / which is also equal to (A'). No bug in Rev J. SUMMARY: Rev A-E have a bug in the EquationWriter that can mangle expressions if flag -53 is clear (the default) and if Explicit Parentheses mode is toggled. This bug has been fixed in Rev J. Unfortunately (as you can see above) Rev J always puts parentheses around on a Rev J to create a GROB that looks like expression (A) above; the simplest that can be had is expression (A'). Another minor change, while I'm at it: Rev A-E don't change the menu when you press REPL; Rev J automatically flips to the appropriate RULES menu. 11.2 Rotation Rate to Angular Frequency Conversion Bug About the Bug: There is a rotation rate conversion bug in the HP48 G/GX which I have not seen reported here before, so after discussion with the folks at Corvallis I am posting this description. Warning: it is 159 lines long! First - an example. Put the unit object 60_rpm in level 2 and the unit object 1_r/s in level 1, then execute the command CONVERT. You are asking the HP48 to convert a rotation rate of 60 revolutions per minute into an angular frequency in radians per second. 60 rpm is 1 revolution per second, or 2pi radians per second. No HP48 G/GX will give this answer! Not everyone uses rpm or is even aware of the existence of this unit - it is one of the extra units in the UTILS menu of the Equation Library - so here is a second example - add 2pi radians per second to one Hertz. Put 6.2832_r/s in level 1, 1_Hz in level 1, and add. You are adding an angular frequency of two pi (one cycle) per second to a rotation rate of one per second, so the result should be a frequency of two Hertz. On an HP48 S/SX that is the answer. On an HP48 G/GX it is not. When units are converted, by CONVERT, or during arithmetic on unit objects, the level 2 object is first turned into base units, and then the result is converted into the units of the level 1 object. On the HP48 S/SX, the base unit of angles is one rotation (or a unit circle or a revolution or a cycle). So, the angle unit of rpm (a revolution) or of Hz (a cycle if Hz is treated as a rotation rate) is already in base units - conversions to angles involving rpm and Hz automatically work correctly. On the HP48 G/GX, the base unit of angles is the current angle mode (DEG, RAD or GRAD) - so any conversion from rpm or Hz (or any formula which works in cycles, rotations, revolutions, unit circles) to angles should be preceeded by a conversion from the unit circle to the current angle. Apparently no-one noticed this would be necessary, because it all worked automatically on the HP48 S/SX. So, when you convert 60_rpm to units of _r/s, an HP48 G/GX converts not 60 rotations but 60 base angle units per minute to radians/second. In RAD mode, you get 1 radian per second. In DEG mode you get 1 degree per second, and in GRAD mode you get 1 grad per second (in each case expressed in radians). That's three different answers, none of which is correct! Exactly the same happens if you convert 1_Hz to angles per second, and the inverse mistake is made if you convert angles per time to cycles or rotations divided by time. I first learned of this bug from a member of HPCC (the British club for users of HP handhelds), Peter Embrey. He describes his troubles in (in Volume 13 number 1 pages 12 to 14 and V13n2p6). He was calculating the energy stored by a flywheel - given by the formula (1/2)*I*omega^2 and after a time he decided the answers had to be much too big when he CONVERTed from kg*m^2*(r/s)^2 to W*h on an HP48 GX. It turns out that (r/s) are the correct units to get the right answer, but the GX was converting to degrees per second as it was in DEG mode, so his answer was too large by a factor of (360/2pi)^2 - a factor of about 3,300. In this case, his HP48 SX was not much better, since it converted from radians to unit circles. The way to get the correct answer is to use an HP48 G or GX in RAD mode - or to divide out the radians from the formula before using CONVERT. This is not yet a bug, but needs as much care as does use of temperature units on the HP48. But when Peter tried to deal with the problem by working in rpm, he came upon the bug Apparently this bug not been reported before - at least my friends in HP tell me that it was not on their list of known problems until I told them of it. (This means it is not fixed in the new revision R.) Why not - does everyone know about it and work around it without thinking to tell anyone else? Or does no-one use their HP48 to do calculations on rotating bodies - or do most people do calculations with rotating bodies in such a way that they do not encounter this problem? Could there be hundreds of students and engineers out there calculating and designing things on their HP48 G/GX and getting wildly inaccurate results? Has anyone built a disk drive or a jet engine which rotates far too fast and will disintegrate because of this? No, of course not, all engineers know that any design calculation absolutely must be repeated on two entirely separate calculators or computer programs! :-| Maybe some students have lost marks in exams because of this though - but please, this is not intended to restart the discussion as to whether calculators should be allowed in exams! I want to underline again that apparently no-one has reported this before - which must mean that few people have been affected by it. It is therefore not a good reason to throw away your HP48 G/GX or get on a high horse and demand that HP replace your HP48 G/GX - but I think it is important that people be warned so they can take appropriate avoiding action. The rest of this message goes into more detail - if you never worry about rotation calculations then you can safely ignore the rest - though you might find it interesting, so don't stop yet :-) One way to avoid this would be to add a new unit to the HP48 - call it what you like - the cycle or rotation or revolution or unit to see this on an HP48 S/SX, put 360 degrees in level 1 and execute UBASE - the result is 1, meaning that 360 degrees are equivalent to one base unit of angle measurement, but that there is no named HP48 unit corresponding to this. In contrast, UBASE on an HP48 G/GX considers the base unit of angle measurement to be the radian, even though CONVERT behaves as though the base unit is the current angle mode. There appear to be two different norms for base angle units on the HP48 G/GX! The whole subject gets very little mention in HP's manuals. In the original HP48 SX manual (two volumes, spiral bound), the section on Dimensionless Units of Angle in chapter 13, on page 198, warns the reader about the danger of using dimensionless units and states how angle units and scalars are treated. In the later HP48 S and HP48 SX manual (one volume), the same warning is given in Converting Dimensionless Units of Angle, on page 13-12. The HP48 G Series User's Manual, in Converting Angular Units on page 10-7, says that conversion will interpret a scalar according to the current angle mode setting. (A scalar is a pure number with no units.) For a detailed description, look in the HP48 S/SX edition of HP48 Insights Vol II, section 21.4.3. This book is written by Dr Bill the Insights books largely to provide the sort of explanations and details that get left out of manuals. A good explanation of angle units is exactly the sort of thing one can find there! He explains the pitfalls and unavoidable contradictions of working with angles in the HP48 units system and points out that the HP48 S/SX make the somewhat arbitrary choice of using 2pi as the base unit of angles, thereby making conversions between angles per time and Hertz work correctly. Maybe no-one on the HP48 G/GX team read this while they were making changes from the HP48 S/SX! Why did they change the base unit at all? Most likely they were trying to deal with another contradiction: the units system lets you add pure numbers to angles, since both are dimensionless. If you add the number 1 in level 2 to the unit object 0_r in level 1 on an HP48 S/SX, the number 1 is treated as 1 base unit, or 2pi radians, and the result is 6.2832_r - but if you take the SIN of the number 1 instead, it is not treated as 2pi, but as 1 unit of the current angle mode. The change made on the HP48 G/GX does resolve this contradiction, but at the cost of introducing the bug described above. As mentioned, a way to resolve the problems involved would be to add the angle unit cycle explicitly to the HP48 units system. Hz would then be treated as cycles per second when used in calculations involving rotations - rpm would be treated as cycles per minute, and conversions would go from cycles to the appropriate angle units. This HP accept that this is a good solution - but they have not implemented it yet. In the meantime, be very, very careful when converting between units of rotation rate and units of angular frequency. I would urge everyone who does not yet have a copy of Insights II to buy one and read the relevant section - maybe that will even entice Bill Wickes into publishing his long-awaited HP48 G/GX version of the book! I have not yet mentioned solid angles. In principle there should be no problem - on both the HP48 S/SX and the HP48 G/GX the base unit of solid angle is a unit sphere, or 4pi steradians. On the HP48 S/SX you can add the pure number 1 to 0_sr and get 12.5664_sr (4pi steradians). The HP48 G/GX manuals imply that exactly the same should happen, but on my (version L) HP48 GX this gives the error message Inconsistent Units. This is yet another undocumented difference between the Series S and Series G but at least it is no bug! Apologies for making this description so long, I hope most people will agree that a subject like this deserves a careful description! For my next trick - some details on the HP48 Random Number Generator. Addition Insight: Note: The < symbol below is actually the angle character. The angular conversion bug is actually in the definition of the rpm unit. If you put 1_rpm on the stack, and type UBASE, you get 1.66666666667E-2_1/s. Notice that there is no angular unit in the definition. If the rpm unit is instead defined as 6_ When I run this program, I get the last menu, but I need press ON for > refreshing the screen... > What do I need for getting the autorefreh? I think that maybe ClrDA3OK help you. I don't have the calc here so I can't test. Hope this helps Luis > I think that maybe ClrDA3OK help you. I don't have the calc here so I can't test. Adding this command to thr prg, I still need press ON for refreshing the stack :-( > I think that maybe ClrDA3OK help you. I don't have the calc here so I > can't test. > Adding this command to thr prg, I still need press ON for refreshing the > stack :-( The strongest and perhaps fastest command to refresh the display completely is SysDISPLAY - Wolfgang I think you should use ClrDAsOK, which does :: ClrDA1OK ClrDA2OK ClrDA3OK ; (stack area 1 and 2 and menu area) Caspar If this does not work I have to check my Donnely book... I think that maybe ClrDA3OK help you. I don't have the calc here so I > can't test. Adding this command to thr prg, I still need press ON for refreshing the > stack :-( > Caspar Lugtmeier & Eva Skotarczak escribi.97 en el > I think you should use ClrDAsOK, which does > :: ClrDA1OK ClrDA2OK ClrDA3OK ; > (stack area 1 and 2 and menu area) Caspar If this does not work I have to check my Donnely book... Don't check your book :-) THANKS If you type in RPN: 2 sqrt (the button, not typing) enter EVAL then it says (sqrt(2))^2 does anyone know why it doesn't answer only 2? If you then try to -> NUM it answers 1.99999999999 and im having exact (=) mode set. Is their some kind of setting that i maybe have set accidently? Rom 1.19-6 Well, now i have downgraded to rom 1.18 and now everything works fine again. Don't know what the problem was unforunately. The 1.19-6 worked fine in the emulator, but not on my real hp49g. Maybe i give it a chance somewhere in the future. // Jocke Please friend! It does not get any easier that this. Use EVAL instead for ->NUM to get the exact answer 2. !Demeter! > If you type in RPN: > 2 > sqrt (the button, not typing) > enter > EVAL then it says (sqrt(2))^2 Are you sure you're not missing something in your description? 2 SQRT EVAL return SQRT(2) > Are you sure you're not missing something in your description? > 2 SQRT EVAL return SQRT(2) > Yes i did, sorry. I missed the multiplication sign. I try one more time: RPN-mode: 2 sqrt (the button) enter (duplicates sqrt(2), so you have two identical terms) * (multiplication sign) EVAL Now my 49g answers (sqrt(2))^2 If i do a ANS -> NUM it says: 1.99999999... e.g. Can't 49g tell sqrt(2) * sqrt(2) exact? // Jocke e.g. Can't 49g tell sqrt(2) * sqrt(2) exact? > Try EXPAND > Try EXPAND > Done that now, and it still results in (sqrt(2))^2 :-( // Jocke to do VERSION and 64 STWS HEX RCLF Here's the result from my hp49g VERSION Copyright HP 2001 and... 64 STWS HEX RCLF { # 38205010FF1h # 1000000000000001h # 1004400002000800h # 0h } Hope this will help me and you... =) It appears to be flag -125 being set which is causing 'v/2^2' not to simplify using either EVAL or EXPAND. Why? ((o)) . > to do VERSION and 64 STWS HEX RCLF > > Here's the result from my hp49g > > VERSION > Copyright HP 2001 > > and... > > 64 STWS HEX RCLF > { # 38205010FF1h > # 1000000000000001h > # 1004400002000800h > # 0h } > > Hope this will help me and you... =) I tried this on my HP 49. The result of the multiplication is exactly 2 (i.e., there is no need to do EVAL). I also tried entering (SQRT(2)*SQRT(2))^2 directly, and doing EVAL; the result is 2 exactly. Both numeric and approximate are not checked. The binary word size (result of RCWS) is 64. My ROM version is 1.18. Is it possible this issue only arises with certain ROM versions? Geoff Garner Try EXPAND > Done that now, and it still results in (sqrt(2))^2 > :-( I have a 48GX with Erable: I get 2 in exact mode (the same in my 49 emu): 2 sqrt ENTER * EXPAND Sorry for can not help more... Interested in the great book Mastering the HP68G/GX book? look at my auction in ebay, the book is in very good condition: This is a book in like new condition. Mastering the HP 48G/GX: A step by step, easy to read introduction to operating and programming the HP48G/GX. Great for students who own an HP calculator, it provides a great introduction and mid level treatment of the RPL programming in the HP calculators. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2053646105 Mariano I bought an HP49 for the younger brother of my girlfriend to replace a TI. He was thrilled and instantly proud of it. I spent time giving him a crash course in the machine, and how to do the ROM updates. A bright young guy, he noticed that the ROM updates were almost 2 years old. He asked aren't there any newer ones? I answered no, and briefly explained what I knew about HP's calculator division problems. He then said this machine is dead in its tracks, huh? He was then visibly depressed, as if his great new gift was now a tarnished cast-off. There was little I could say, except that I found the HP49 of great value in my engineering studies, and it would surely help him in high school. As I drove home, it made me wonder the same thing: is the HP49 truely dead in its tracks, are HP calcs all dinosaurs, relics of a by gone era? J.C. Randerson Pueblo, Colorado As long as there is support the currnet calculators will be current. If it breaks you can get it fixed or get a new one. Who cares if the rom updates are 2 years old. The ROMS are updated to get rid of bugs. no more bugs ... no more updates. Newer is not better all the time. I still wish the 41 series was in production. I still think that was my favorite calulator - inspite of some relliability issues. If somone gave me an 49 in highschool I'd be jazzed ('course back then I used a slide rule). Heck if somone gave me one now I'd be. Heck it's the brother of your girlfriend. The little snot should be happy you gave him anything! As long as you can get your calc replaced/repaired by HP it's no DINO. Even then ... after that it's no dino as long as it keeps working! On 21 Sep 2002 10:14:33 -0700, jrand@aculink.net (J.C. Randerson) >I bought an HP49 for the younger brother of my girlfriend to replace a >TI. He was thrilled and instantly proud of it. I spent time giving him >a crash course in the machine, and how to do the ROM updates. A bright >young guy, he noticed that the ROM updates were almost 2 years old. He >asked aren't there any newer ones? I answered no, and briefly >explained what I knew about HP's calculator division problems. He then >said this machine is dead in its tracks, huh? He was then visibly >depressed, as if his great new gift was now a tarnished cast-off. >There was little I could say, except that I found the HP49 of great >value in my engineering studies, and it would surely help him in high >school. As I drove home, it made me wonder the same thing: is the HP49 >truely dead in its tracks, are HP calcs all dinosaurs, relics of a by >gone era? J.C. Randerson >Pueblo, Colorado > the HP49 ROM updates are almost 2 years old. 1.19-6 is about 11 months old. Of course, HP appears to have dissolved its organization for producing any more such products, but the products still exist, and will keep working anyway, with or without HP's further interest. Former HP employees may or may not produce future firmware enhancements (legally blocked at present), but contributors who participate in this newsgroup do not seem to stop producing more software themselves, also with or without HP's further interest, and they also offer far more ongoing support to users than HP ever did. > He asked aren't there any newer ones? I answered no, and briefly > explained what I knew about HP's calculator division problems. > He then said this machine is dead in its tracks, huh? > He was then visibly depressed, as if his great new gift > was now a tarnished cast-off. > There was little I could say, except that I found the HP49 > of great value in my engineering studies, > and it would surely help him in high school. > As I drove home, it made me wonder the same thing: > is the HP49 truly dead in its tracks, are HP calcs all dinosaurs, > relics of a bygone era? The HP48GX hasn't been updated since 1993, the HP12C (still selling widely) not since before anyone ever heard of the internet, and it seems that very few of the lesser, ordinary calculators of all manufacturers have changed a bit in far longer than that, yet they still seem to be sold to people who find them very useful. Paper, pencils and ink, the most archaic of scholarly tools, are still more helpful (and cheaper) than any calculator in many cases, and the most powerful of all analytical tools apparently hasn't undergone hardware or firmware changes in all of recorded human history, which makes me wonder how your girlfriend's young brother can stand to still be using only his own utterly outmoded brain. With best wishes from http://www.mum.edu . > > He asked aren't there any newer ones? I answered no, and briefly > explained what I knew about HP's calculator division problems. > He then said this machine is dead in its tracks, huh? > He was then visibly depressed, as if his great new gift > was now a tarnished cast-off. > There was little I could say, except that I found the HP49 > of great value in my engineering studies, > and it would surely help him in high school. > As I drove home, it made me wonder the same thing: > is the HP49 truly dead in its tracks, are HP calcs all dinosaurs, > relics of a bygone era? > > The HP48GX hasn't been updated since 1993, the HP12C (still > selling widely) not since before anyone ever heard of the internet, > and it seems that very few of the lesser, ordinary calculators > of all manufacturers have changed a bit in far longer than that, > yet they still seem to be sold to people who find them very useful. > > Paper, pencils and ink, the most archaic of scholarly tools, > are still more helpful (and cheaper) than any calculator in many cases, > and the most powerful of all analytical tools apparently hasn't > undergone hardware or firmware changes in all of recorded > human history, which makes me wonder how your girlfriend's young > brother can stand to still be using only his own utterly outmoded brain. > > > With best wishes from http://www.mum.edu > > If someone had given me a new 49g, even if the last rom update was 11 months ago, disappointment wouldnt have been my reaction. Inversly, if the young lad is so disappointed, slap him with an old ti 81 and tell him to have fun with it. There is wisdom in the passage about not casting your pearls before swine. John H Meyers schrieb im Newsbeitrag the HP49 ROM updates are almost 2 years old. 1.19-6 is about 11 months old. [..] > The HP48GX hasn't been updated since 1993, > ...since there was no need;-) It was nearly perfect. Raymond Raymond Hellstern escribi.97 en el The HP48GX hasn't been updated since 1993, ...since there was no need;-) It was nearly perfect. Raymond and... many many features that are not in the 48 out of the box and I need/want for my work. HP did not too much for it, but the users wich prgs I'm using, (and myself) did. And EVERYDAY, this calculator amazes me: how it can grow up and be better. And so perhaps you are right: it's nearly perfect ;-) > Raymond Hellstern escribi.97 en el The HP48GX hasn't been updated since 1993, ...since there was no need;-) It was nearly perfect. Raymond > Erable > and... many many features that are not in the 48 out of the box and I > need/want for my work. > HP did not too much for it, but the users wich prgs I'm using, (and myself) > did. > And EVERYDAY, this calculator amazes me: how it can grow up and be better. > And so perhaps you are right: it's nearly perfect ;-) > Isn't the 49 such an updated 48? > Isn't the 49 such an updated 48? Yes. I think so. > Isn't the 49 such an updated 48? It was supposed too. Unfortunatly, those who did the 49 wheren't as smart as the 48's developpers where :-( > Paper, pencils and ink, the most archaic of scholarly tools, are > still more helpful (and cheaper) than any calculator in many cases, > and the most powerful of all analytical tools apparently hasn't > undergone hardware or firmware changes in all of recorded human > history, which makes me wonder how your girlfriend's young brother > can stand to still be using only his own utterly outmoded brain. Hmm.. Come to think of it, there is some software you can add to your brain, which helps it quite a bit to think more clearly, to feel far more positive, and to manage its entire body more effectively for its energy, health and longevity. The lack of knowledge of its existence, and lack of interest in its installation, seems as perplexing to me as to why many folks don't discover and update their 49G rom, (or even install all of WR's further enhancements :) Fortunately, unlike HP, the distributor of this brain software is not packing up and going away; we're staying the course: http://www.mum.edu http://www.maharishischooliowa.org/about_maharishi_school.htm http://www.permanentpeace.org/multimedia http://www.permanentpeace.org/multimedia/Hagelin_12.ram http://www.permanentpeace.org/research http://www.tm.org http://www.alltm.org . X > Fortunately, unlike HP, the distributor of this brain software > is not packing up and going away; we're staying the course: http://www.mum.edu > http://www.maharishischooliowa.org/about_maharishi_school.htm > http://www.permanentpeace.org/multimedia > http://www.permanentpeace.org/multimedia/Hagelin_12.ram > http://www.permanentpeace.org/research > http://www.tm.org > http://www.alltm.org John - to you it's TM - to me it's Jesus Christ. Don't you think you're off topic?! > Don't you think you're off topic?! The primary topic of all education, which is what all sharing of information is for, is to develop the whole of life, both for individuals, at one end of focus of the scale, and of the whole of humanity at the other; if an educator does not keep this in mind, becoming so lost in the details that (s)he forgets to connect them to what we're learning things for, then it's a baseless and useless education that we're dispensing, much as R. Buckminster Fuller has so well pointed out. > to you it's TM - to me it's Jesus Christ Then you must have very little comprehension about at least one of these topics. Students following the instructions for one of these throughout their educational career are scoring in the top 1% of the general public student population; other people following the instructions are spending so much less on medical care that they can get cheaper health insurance for doing it -- and the list goes on and on. Try achieving that with anything that you can get from any church, from any religion, or from anything else available to anyone, anywhere on this planet. One of the things that made present human civilization possible was developing the knowledge of how to culture plants, how to grow vastly more on the same original land. It is equally as significant to know how to get much more out of your own nervous system -- more energy and intelligence, more creativity, finer health, and most of all, feeling finer, under all circumstances. If this isn't *the* topic of greatest importance to civilization, what is? -[]- . If this isn't *the* topic of greatest importance to civilization, > what is? > Embracing the love of God and transferring it to the world -- not contemplating our belly buttons and savoring our egos. Let's get back to the news group at hand. Gregory Warsewicz Savage a.k.a. Greg S X > One of the things that made present human civilization possible > was developing the knowledge of how to culture plants, > how to grow vastly more on the same original land. It is equally as significant to know how to get much more > out of your own nervous system -- more energy and intelligence, > more creativity, finer health, and most of all, > feeling finer, under all circumstances. If this isn't *the* topic of greatest importance to civilization, > what is? You seem to have good goals and the means to get there don't sound bad, but they still do to me! Why? I don't believe that man himself can build a better world. You have to co-operate with God. To my experience it's pointless to go on with this so why don't we just agree to disagree. BUT if you insist you can clarify your point Veli-Pekka Perhaps the next best one will be the iPaq50....ugggh... > I bought an HP49 for the younger brother of my girlfriend to replace a > TI. He was thrilled and instantly proud of it. I spent time giving him > a crash course in the machine, and how to do the ROM updates. A bright > young guy, he noticed that the ROM updates were almost 2 years old. He > asked aren't there any newer ones? I answered no, and briefly > explained what I knew about HP's calculator division problems. He then > said this machine is dead in its tracks, huh? He was then visibly > depressed, as if his great new gift was now a tarnished cast-off. > There was little I could say, except that I found the HP49 of great > value in my engineering studies, and it would surely help him in high > school. As I drove home, it made me wonder the same thing: is the HP49 > truely dead in its tracks, are HP calcs all dinosaurs, relics of a by > gone era? J.C. Randerson > Pueblo, Colorado > Hopefully, it is not a fossil in time, but I would say it suffered from the meteoric rise and crash of the 'new era economy'. Large corporation discarded tried and true principles of producing wealth for the get rich quick scheme of mergers and .con's and other paper shuffling scams. Well at least the CEOs made out ... like bandits. be sure to understand http://www.anti-matrix.net i wanna make a link cable but i dont know the order of the wires within the cable.... any one know where i can find out? > i don't know the order of the wires within the [hp48] cable... http://www.hpcalc.org/viewzip.php?id=3517&file=c_hp-pc.txt http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/48faq-12.html#ss12.1 Etc. ((o)) . HP48+ > i wanna make a link cable but i dont know the order of the wires within the > cable.... > any one know where i can find out? > everybody requesting it. Now, I have setup a web site to cover the time before HpCalc.org gets updated. Even if it has all the library I ported to the HP49G, it is not intended to replace HpCalc.org. It is just a temporary repository with a faster refresh rate ;-). The URL is http://www3.sympatico.ca/france.vallieres/ Alain Robillard http://www.softintegration.com/ **************************************************************************** *** We checked sharp zaurus at http://www.sharp-usa.com/products/FunctionPressReleaseSingle/0,1080,205-29 ,0 0.html It looks that they use Lineo's Embeddix, QT, and Java, Opera Web browser. PDA such as Sharp Zaurus. We will appreciate it if you can ask Sharp Zaurus and Lineo to run Ch. It will be easy for us to work them out. Xiaodong Zhou **************************************************************************** cool! i'll see how it turns out. did you guys see the comparison with mathematica they have on the site mentioned bellow? > http://www.softintegration.com/ I have an hp49. I am having touble attaching the fumo library from the hp49 electrical engineering section of the hpcalc.org website. Has anyone had any luck attaching this library? I am able to copy it but my calculate fails to recognize it as a library. I was looking at the manual but i can't find it! It's there a possiblity to solve Equation with letters ? Is there a possiblity to solve it with the calc ? Jani try the SOLVE command ! e.g : 1: 'X' SOLVE HTH Bernd jani schrieb im Newsbeitrag I was looking at the manual but i can't find it! It's there a possiblity to solve Equation with letters ? Is there a possiblity to solve it with the calc ? > Jani thank you very much!!! greets jani thank you so much!!!!! greets jani be sure to understand http://www.anti-matrix.net >be sure to understand http://www.anti-matrix.net I am starting up a project to develop a 39/40G Shell / Operating System Application to be written in System RPL. I am very new to this language but understand it sort of well. Anyway I want to make this a group project so I am going to need sample code from willing authors. I want this application to adhere to the following standards: - Programmable API for future Programs - Multi-Tasking (like linux with seperate terminals) - Gui Interface - Filing System , File Explorer - Connectivity with other infrared devies If you are willing to assist with this project reply here Help in Need, Rob Morgan Why? > I am starting up a project to develop a 39/40G Shell / Operating System > Application > to be written in System RPL. I am very new to this language but understand > it sort of well. > > Anyway I want to make this a group project so I am going to need sample code > from willing > authors. > > I want this application to adhere to the following standards: > - Programmable API for future Programs > - Multi-Tasking (like linux with seperate terminals) > - Gui Interface > - Filing System , File Explorer > - Connectivity with other infrared devies > > If you are willing to assist with this project reply here > > Help in Need, > Rob Morgan > > > > Why? - To improve on the flaws of the current system - Provide Better security - Faster for Equations or Games - Why was ShellEX developed for the 48G? - More intregration with other infrared devices - A easier system to develop games or apps for the current RPL OS - Fun! Rob Morgan <3d8f00c5@dnews.tpgi.com.au Why? - To improve on the flaws of the current system What flaws? > - Provide Better security Hard to achieve without the help of an MMU in the CPU. > - Faster for Equations or Games I doubt you'll be able to do faster... And as you're talking about games, I don't think that adding a suplementary layer will enhance the speed (mainly because actual games talk directly to the hardware). > - Why was ShellEX developed for the 48G? Why did it stop? > - More intregration with other infrared devices That's the first good reason. Unfortunately, you won't be able to do IrDA faster than 2400 bauds with the HP39 hardware... And if I remember correctly, the lowest available speed for IrDA is 9600 bauds. > - A easier system to develop games or apps for the current RPL OS Well... The actual OS is really good for RPL apps. > - Fun! Just add another one: - Lose time! ;) -- ----- RECHERCHONS HOMMES pr.8esentant peau sensible utilisant d.8eodorant sans alcool, pour tester produits cosm.8etiques, r.8emun.8eration en fin d'essai. -+- in Guide du Neuneu d'Usenet-Halte .88 l'exp.8erimentation neuneutale -+- answer and no idea how to do. I want to install the scribe and todo list in the 1.1, i read there're in the 1.01 ? How i can bring it to run ? Can somebody help me ? Thx Ellum if you have Organizer 1.1 properly installed, you only have to install the Scribe library. Then, from Organizer 1.1, press the Todo softkey (C) and you should have Scribe invoked with a Todo Manager database automatically setup in port 0 for the HP48 and in port 1 for the HP49G. Alain Robillard aml2t3$20km$1@news.imp.ch... answer and no idea how to do. I want to install the scribe and todo list in the 1.1, i read there're in > the 1.01 ? How i can bring it to run ? Can somebody help me ? > Thx > Ellum on sept 30 you will be able to go to MIT for free!! well, almost :) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2270648.stm viva the internet! and here it is (initial): http://ocw.mit.edu/index.html not as much as i thought :( and being free, no complaint from me :) > on sept 30 you will be able to go to MIT for free!! well, almost :) > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2270648.stm > > viva the internet! >Another Baltimorean, >Bhuvanesh great! did you go to Townson University? a physics teacher of mine lectures there too: his name is Dr. Harry Olson. Do you know him by any chance? BTW the initial courses from MIT are: Anthropology Biology Chemical Engineering Chemistry Civil and Environmental Engineering Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences Economics Electrical Engineering and Computer Science Linguistics and Philosophy Management Mathematics Mechanical Engineering Ocean Engineering Political Science Urban Studies and Planning more info here: http://web.mit.edu/ocw/ > on sept 30 you will be able to go to MIT for free!! well, almost :) > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2270648.stm > > viva the internet! >Another Baltimorean, >Bhuvanesh > > great! did you go to Townson University? Yep! I was there for about six years. My physics classes were the most fun. > a physics teacher of mine lectures there too: his name is Dr. Harry > Olson. Do you know him by any chance? No. Did he join recently? I moved to Champaign, IL, about two years back. > BTW the initial courses from MIT are: > > Anthropology > Biology > Chemical Engineering > Chemistry > Civil and Environmental Engineering > Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences > Economics > Electrical Engineering and Computer Science > Linguistics and Philosophy > Management > Mathematics > Mechanical Engineering > Ocean Engineering > Political Science > Urban Studies and Planning Argh, no physics?? :-( Bhuvanesh. > No. Did he join recently? i don't know, 2 years maybe? > BTW the initial courses from MIT are: > > Anthropology > Biology > Chemical Engineering > Chemistry > Civil and Environmental Engineering > Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences > Economics > Electrical Engineering and Computer Science > Linguistics and Philosophy > Management > Mathematics > Mechanical Engineering > Ocean Engineering > Political Science > Urban Studies and Planning > > Argh, no physics?? :-( they may have made a typo. i read down the page that they have a physics pilot course already made. Courses were selected from the following departments and groups for the pilot phase: Biology Electrical Engineering and Computer Science Linguistics and Philosophy Ocean Engineering Physics Sloan School of Management Speech Communications Urban Studies and Planning so, you no longer live in Baltimore? > Bhuvanesh. > they may have made a typo. i read down the page that they have a > physics pilot course already made. Oh, good :-) > so, you no longer live in Baltimore? No, I'm now at Wolfram Research (www.wolfram.com). -- Bhuvanesh > No, I'm now at Wolfram Research (www.wolfram.com). great, congrats! hope i'll see one of these days a Bhuvanesh-Research.com or a Bhuvafram-research.com or a wolfvanesh-research.com or ... :) i've been reading S. Wolfram's book The New Kind of Science. interesting. he was in Greenbelt-MD the other day (where i got the book). good luck > on sept 30 you will be able to go to MIT for free!! well, almost :) > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2270648.stm Another Baltimorean, Bhuvanesh. I just got my copy of the URROZ books. Like 'em so far, but..... One of the first examples (actually a psudo-example) is t^2-3t+5=0. so you enter this on the stack: 2: t^2-3t+5=0 1:'t' enter QUAD and I get QUAD Error: No soluntions found I have tried this several times and used the same key pattern out of the book. If you see what I am fouling up, I'd appreciate it. Matt > > I just got my copy of the URROZ books. Like 'em so far, but..... > > One of the first examples (actually a psudo-example) is t^2-3t+5=0. > so you enter this on the stack: > > 2: t^2-3t+5=0 > 1:'t' > enter QUAD > > and I get QUAD Error: No soluntions found I'll bet you are trying to find complex solutions while in real mode. This does not work very well! If you are in real mode, your example above,t^2-3t+5=0, has no solutions, as you may easily verify by hand. When I am in ->complex mode<- and exact mode I get { 't=(3-i*sqrt(11))/2' 't=(3+-i*sqrt(11))/2'} and when in ->complex<- and approximate modes I get {'t=(1.5,-1.65831239158)''t=(1.5,1.65831239158)'} What more could anyone want of QUAD? > What more could anyone want of QUAD? That it was backward compatible with the HP48 series? If some commands are not, some are somewhat, and some are completely backward compatible, then backward compatibility should be ditched alltogether. I disagree. While it was not entirely clear or intuitive to get this particular problem to work on the 49G, I blame myself for not understanding how the new 49G works as opposed to the 48GX, which I have. I'm still trying to kick my old 48GX habits to understand everything about the 49G, not an easy task, but at the same time I realize that most of the mistakes I'm making are my own fault, not the calculators. Doug > What more could anyone want of QUAD? That it was backward compatible with the HP48 series? If some commands are not, some are somewhat, and some are completely > backward compatible, then backward compatibility should be ditched > alltogether. > I disagree. While it was not entirely clear or intuitive to get this > particular problem to work on the 49G, I blame myself for not understanding > how the new 49G works as opposed to the 48GX, which I have. QUAD does not work like on the HP48GX. Period. That was the intent - why keep it otherwise? > I'm still > trying to kick my old 48GX habits to understand everything about the 49G, > not an easy task, but at the same time I realize that most of the mistakes > I'm making are my own fault, not the calculators. Yeah, right. That's non-intuitive for ya. Regrads I think you're missing the point. Either way, it can be done on both calculators. > I disagree. While it was not entirely clear or intuitive to get this > particular problem to work on the 49G, I blame myself for not > understanding > how the new 49G works as opposed to the 48GX, which I have. QUAD does not work like on the HP48GX. Period. That was the intent - why > keep it otherwise? I'm still > trying to kick my old 48GX habits to understand everything about the 49G, > not an easy task, but at the same time I realize that most of the mistakes > I'm making are my own fault, not the calculators. Yeah, right. That's non-intuitive for ya. Regrads I think you're missing the point. No, *you're* missing the point. I know it can be done - I know it can be done a zillion ways on the HP49G, but that was not the point. The point is that QUAD does not behave like on the HP48G series, which was the intent of the former HP49G programmers. That's the point, and with all these commands trying to emulate the HP48G, they simply shouldn't, as half-emulation is much much worse than no emulation at all. I know QUAD can solve a quadratic, it simply does not return the same result as on the HP48G. I don't care if the output is mathematically correct, it's not the same as on the HP48G. That's the sole purpose of QUAD, to deliver the exact same result as on the HP48G - not to imitate the HP49G SOLVE command. That's my point. > I think you're missing the point. > > No, *you're* missing the point. I know it can be done - I know it can be > done a zillion ways on the HP49G, but that was not the point. The point is > that QUAD does not behave like on the HP48G series, which was the intent of > the former HP49G programmers. That's the point, and with all these commands > trying to emulate the HP48G, they simply shouldn't, as half-emulation is > much much worse than no emulation at all. > > I know QUAD can solve a quadratic, it simply does not return the same result > as on the HP48G. I don't care if the output is mathematically correct, it's > not the same as on the HP48G. That's the sole purpose of QUAD, to deliver > the exact same result as on the HP48G - not to imitate the HP49G SOLVE > command. > > That's my point. > same *names* like on the HP48 but behave, well, almost(?) like on the HP48. It is superfluous and inellegant to have them when they don't guarantee backwards compatibility but are just side offsprings of other commands. In this particular case, SOLVE would be completelly sufficient. Nick. ISOL is another command which could have been very useful if left as it was on the HP48; since the new 49G SOLVE command seems to include the ISOL function, I don't see why there was any need to modify the original ISOL command, but it was modified anyway, and old programs which used ISOL to rearrange equations and solve quickly may therefore not be portable to the 49G (one example was my triangle solver TRI1, which I did finally port, but runs at only 1/16 the original speed, solely because of what happened to ISOL). The multiple equation solver (MES), which is really only a *numeric* solver, also got changed into the CAS category some while back, which caused it to fail in many cases (especially for the entire original HP48G equation library), but in 1.19-6 the MES was changed back and now works again. I think that there could have been far greater compatibility if certain design elements (for ALG mode) hadn't been adopted, and if various original 48G commands hadn't been changed to CAS commands when there was no need to, because the CAS, in most cases, has its own new commands anyway. There was also a tendency to introduce functions which were not careful to affect only variables in the current directory, and leave higher directories alone; there still exists a significant flaw in that the CAS can't function if some variable name exists in memory (that's why it asks you to delete it, and won't proceed if you don't), and if you have that same name existing in two directories (say both HOME and another directory that you're currently using), then these commands can't work at all. The CAS also assumes that every CAS command uses VX, but they don't (some use a variable named on level 1 instead, and others don't need any variable to be deleted), which leads to other problems like that above. ACO must have rushed this along too fast for a complete and thorough job to be done, and now that they have also killed the project entirely, it's unlikely that these things will ever be straightened out. So the 49G does a lot, but it wasn't as well executed as HP projects used to be in all past history. I wonder whether this finds a parallel or not in regard to the rest of HP's products? ((o)) . > ACO must have rushed this along too fast for a complete > and thorough job to be done, and now that they have > also killed the project entirely, it's unlikely > that these things will ever be straightened out. Exactly. > I know QUAD can solve a quadratic, it simply does not return the same result > as on the HP48G. I don't care if the output is mathematically correct, it's > not the same as on the HP48G. That's the sole purpose of QUAD, to deliver > the exact same result as on the HP48G - not to imitate the HP49G SOLVE > command. Then go back to the 48. For my part, vive le difference! > Then go back to the 48. For my part, vive le difference! I don't give a flying f*** about the '48 (and soon neither the '49 for that matter). The point is - and read this carefully - there is *no* need for QUAD on the '49, was it not for backward compatibility. That purpose does QUAD not serve, hence it's buggy! Buggy, like so many other commands on the '49 - they'll never get fixed, and so what? My *point* is that QUAD does not behave like it should. If you don't get my point, fine. Don't tell me which calculator to to use - that decission is long since made.