A349 A349 I just downloaded the 39/40 ROM in my 49G, and I am wondering which program I should use to download aplets in my transformed machine: the 49G's or the 39G's? What's the name of the program to be used? By the way, I am happily surprised by that 39G. Still have my 48 though ... -- Thierry Morissette tmorissette@hotmail.com Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142442 Tried it. Seems the 39G program is the one to use. -- Thierry Morissette tmorissette@hotmail.com pMcG7.26384$gR5.1851456@weber.videotron.net... program the ... Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142480 \T. Morissette\ wrote: When I was beta testing the 39G using a ROM downloaded into a 49G it behaved \ in every way like a 39G, including expecting you to use the 39G's comms \ software called HPGComm. Go to my Utilities page and you can download the latest \ version if you haven't already got it. Or go to the author's site (James \ Bergamin). You can also find instructions on how to use it at my site if you haven't figured it out (it's not hard). PS You may find that it's easier to use the emulator to explore the 39G \ since that way you get the proper keyboard too. I agree that the 39G is a great calc. -- Colin Croft ====================================== Applications in Mathematics ccroft@iinet.net.au http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/ ====================================== program the ... behaved in software version Bergamin). since Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142502 Hi all, I am having some problems doing indefinate integrals on my 48GX for my calc III and diff equations classes. I know that it doesn't support many integrals but was hoping to find a program for it that would. Unfortunately, most of what I have found either uses the calculators own deffinitions or may be too big, I just found erable and am going to look at it. I only have the original 128k of mem and can't afford a RAM card so \ programs like erable may be too large for me. Any suggestions?? Thanks, Kevin Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142420 dgeve: I think that his project and yours may be complementary works First and second section of \Programming in sysRPL\ by Eduardo Kalinowsky are a good start point. (Of course you know this book, do you?) Although it refers to HP48 models, many things, if not everithing at all, may be applied to HP49. Ciao, Marco Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 05:59:27 -0600 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48 Subject: Re: [49] Exact to approx. conversion problems Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142471 Virgil inquired: This is, of course, the same as editing in Approx. mode and then just pressing ENTER, as was elsewhere suggested; it works on programs, lists, arrays, numbers, etc. as well. -[]- -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142443 Lo people ! I encourage Steen Schmidt in his great project, but a still have a newbie question ..... Can anyone tell me how to do text formatting on hp49 I want to put my phisics, math, and chemistry lessons in it, so i need to put equtions and etc ... The top notch would be to right the lessons on the PC then transfer them on the calc .... Thx in advance .... Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142447 I use Lupa for that purpose, and works very good, the only remark is that you have to convert yor formulas in grobs for pretty print view. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142461 Thx but how do i do that ? (i know im a BIG NEWBIE) Thx in advance ! Matthias Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142490 news:9sc4a9$fr9$1@neon.noos.net... You can assemble such texts with WinHP on your PC and transfer them to the 49. Install the TGV library to view them on the 49. Both programs are available from hpcalc. Greets, Marco Hi, the only \problem\ I 've found with TGV is thai it doesn't use minifont reducing the number of characters per line. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142499 1. Download from hpcalc lupa49 2. create on your pc, using your preferred text editor, a list containg all the information you want: ex: {\Hi\ GROB 10 x 10 } 3. Load it in the calc 4. recall the list on the stack and launch lupa That's all Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142407 Raymond Hellstern wrote: This is for the 48. On the 49 the ADISP GROB has always 64 rows. So you don' t have to resize it. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142413 news:7fcf10a1.0111070306.2b2f11fa@posting.google.com... X Haa - HP is finally *really* going back to it's roots: The measuring devices eg. Agilent is manifacturing the 12C CPU nowadays!!! Could this be true? Maybe they will make the future \HP 5n GX\ models, too??! Veli-Pekka, STARTing rumors again....what NEXT ? Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142418 Veli-Pekka Nousiainen wrote: I think calculators can be a very valuable marketing asset for \ Agilent. HP calculators have been the first contact with HP for engineering students, and I guess (this is only speculation) that it has had a strong influence on the preeminence of HP workstations (compared to Sun) in engineering shops. Of course, another factor is the excellent quality of HP instrumentation, now manufactured by Agilent. I think that Agilent would really benefit from the excellent brand \ image HP calculators have or used to have. Borja. P.S: I am not a marketing professional, just a curious observer. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142434 Not that I abandoned hope, but with all critisism against calculators there are 2 things possible: 1) We wont see an HP calculator again. 2) HP is aleady working at some future model, which is going to be the absolute breaker. And they don't want anybody to even assume that the next thing is coming up. I dream about the second possibility. :-) Hmmm, perhaps they (HP) need some convincing (assimilating) arguments, to make the HP 5n GX. Should we send rcobo, assimilate them and convince them to do the right thing? Nick. (willing to join the rumors stream :-) ) Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142440 Karagiaouroglou says... yes, yes, they need to believe. seeing is believing. they need to see the \ making of the machine. they will be assimilated. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142478 3 of 3 to mainBorg: Comms protocol set to red_alert. Testing assimUnit......OK Testing convinceUnit...OK Testing screwDriver....OK All subsystems up and running. Ready for assimAction. 3 of 3 awaiting further commands. Beep Beep! Nick. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142387 Hi, I love RPN and quality HP calculators. I've never owned a TI that lasted more than a year before it went from an expensive toy to a cheap piece of shitty plastic with the worlds poorest keypads (not counting the HP-31/32/33/34 switches which were on a par with TI's). I've been an HP user since 1977. The raw computing power in a Pocket PC (even my $199.00 Jornada 525) so overwhelms the processor speed and memory capability of an HP-48GX or an HP-49G that I don't see a real need to have a dedicated piece of hardware called \a calculator\ in the future, though for sentimental reasons I'll continue to keep a 48GX at home, one in the office and back them up with my HP-15C, HP-42S, two HP-28Ss and when the enemy is finally at the gate and I'm too old to read the LCD screens, my HP-67 with its non-continuous memory and its bright little LEDs. After that, I'll fall back to my Post Versalog and my K&E Log Log Decitrig. :-) I expect that it will be a lot easier to have a killer calculator living next to WORD and EXCELL in a fast Pocket PC than in any other hardware form. This is not what I \want\, but it seems to make sense that it is the direction things are heading. This disassociation of hardware and \calculator\ may make the calculator world a frightenly powerful place to live. Just my $0.02 Jim Klein Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142390 (snip) Other than disbanding ACO, what have they done? (snip) The ROM's future is uncertain right now. JYA has mentioned that he will try to see it GPL'd, and a lot of people have supported this with their voices here if nothing else. If the ROM goes GPL, it is basically freed for public use, modification, and redistribution; so a good hacker could fix a few bugs, add a few features, optimize a few routines, and release the hip new 20-x-jrf7Dec2001 ROM, and communicate his improvements. You could have patch sets, and development tools, and modular ROM distributions, and groups of people working on different parts of the ROM, and all *kinds* of such neatness. We'll have, basically, our own operating system to improve and play with on hardware we've bought with our peers. I think this would be tremendously cool. Have you heard of Linux? Anyway, I think you overestimate the place of the ROM; the 49G is pretty extendable any way you look at it, so it's not as if you are *doomed* if the ROM is static and opaque. Case in point: I notice that nobody has bothered to put a periodic table in ROM, yet! (and there's no graphical memory viewer, but just *look* at how many of those things people've made!) If you're a programmer, all existing code is a jumping point toward future improvement and developement and usefulness -- no matter what happens. Sure, in the year 2043 you may have to torture Steen for a few days -- but eventually he'll tell you how to crack his library, and you can add the feature you always wanted to it! (This is a joke, of course; by 2043 we will have wristcomps.) This is certainly a danger, and as time passes it is a certainty. When those braincomps and wristcomps come, my 49G use will certainly plummet. The community will shrink too -- and, relatively, it's already shrinking, been shrinking, and will only shrink faster; TI is sucking up more and more people and few will care to hunt for other calculators when they A) do not know enough to know what they lack, and B) are satisfied with this ignorance. And as you've seen and as you can see in yourself, a lot of people seem to be taking ACO's departure as a deathtoll for the 49G; some of these will leave the community and use other calculators. More may never come, when the word is spread about how the 49G is 'unsupported'. So, if your concern is with the 49G community, I hope I've properly fed your fears. Hey, just by having a calculator you are way in the minority! And do you have a computer? Whew! Better not instigate Fortunately, you have either practical or ... nonpractical use of your 48GX, and have some idea of what the 49G will mean to you. If a TI-92 or somesuch will fit your needs and your personality, and you think the benefits of support and community outweigh the advantages of flexibility, extendability, and a really astounding number of man-years and ingenuity that exist in the 49G: fine! Buy the TI-92 and be happy with it and never look back. I'd never do this, but I don't have time to add the little footnote explaining why. Maybe tomorrow. (snip) Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142391 If all we want to do is add and subtract, we don't even need the raw \ processing power of the HP48! Pocket PCs have their place. They have a nice front end for a majority of users. They can do more things out of the box. But that is also their limitation. In order to be as user friendly as possible, developers must try \ to think of everything everyone might want, so that each person can use the \ few things they need personally. The rest of the \features\ are unused, \ wasting storage space, memory and sometimes processing power. It is this overhead that makes the Jornada 548 barely able to emulate the \ 4Mhz Saturn processor at normal HP48 speed. Perhaps rather than calling it a calculator, we should start referring to it \ as a \personal graphics device\ or something like that. A device with a \ basic front end for the average user, with access to a powerful lower level \ language and also directly to the machine instruction set, enables users of varying capablilities to take full advantage of the units abilities. As to whether or not such a device is necessary, that will depend on what \ it CAN do, not on what it DOES do. And how impressively it does it. If you described PONG to someone 25 years ago, no one would have bought it. (\I \ saw this great game. It's like tennis, only you spin a knob to hit the ball \ back and forth. ) It was only when you played it that you had to have one :) Similarly the HP48 once wowed, now it takes a bit of knowledge of history to \ do so. A device with great potential, sold at low cost, and released among a large number creative and talented people, will sell itself exponentially. And \ make its developers very rich. Whatever this thing does, it must make everyone \ who sees it go WOW! Then they will buy it. Some will try to use it, some will \ learn to use it, some will do amazing things with it. But it will sell! Dennis Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142392 On Wed, 07 Nov 2001 03:32:46 GMT, Acme Optics Personally I do not want anything else that runs using any Microsoft software and it's bloated code. I do not need another computer that crashes. I have two already and that is enough. The reason we need faster processors and larger hard drives and more memory is that software developers have no incentive to design efficient code. If you read the latest issue of PC Magazine; faster processors have not really gotten us a far as they could, because of this factor. At least the designers of the 48 and 49 had the memory limitations to force them to become more efficient in their coding. I am afraid the lure of faster processor and more memory in a new HP calculator will lead to the same problems, especially if HP uses a Windows derived OS as a shortcut to get the calculator to market faster and does not write its own independent and optimized OS. I do not need a PDA since I have no need for spread sheets on the run and I do not go to meetings. For the most important people I know, I have either memorized their phone numbers or have them on my Timex watch. I see no need in having the numbers of 100 or more people on a PDA when I might call them once every two years. For that I use what is called a phone book. Harold A. Climer Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy U. Tennessee at Chattanooga Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142393 news:87r8rbd0mi.fsf@complete.org... X Only the Saturn CPU chip Yorke (along with the display pixel count) It's the software that counts. A new ROM 1.19-7 will appear AND in the meanwhile this group will find an answer withe or without HP's help !!! There will be new HP calculators from the new division in USA and the TI/HP are both good calculators. Suggestion: Kepp your HP 48GX (if you already own one) AND buy the 49G and you will have it all !!! (like I do) regards, Veli-Pekka Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142405 New division in USA? New calculators? Are you talking about new hp12 machines? Seeing hp39/40 math diferences between USA and Europe, I don't expect much mathematical power from USA HP products... Cheers, J.Manrique CdU de la ETSIG Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142423 cleverjulian@hotmail.com (Julian Fondren) writes: Spending $18.4 billion to purchase Compaq when HP is already facing shrinking revenues for one. It actually makes me wonder if HP will go the way of DEC... (marginalized until someone who doesn't understand the value buys them out) That would be an excellent development of course! That is a great way to continue the evolution of the platform and to make the HP49 stay competetive. However, if my read of this is correct (that the hardware will cease to be manufactured at some point?) then it doesn't do a lot of good. People's HP49's will eventually break, wear out, get lost, etc. and without the ability to replace them, they'll have to revert to something like TI. Of course (I've been a Debian developer for years). There is a difference though: Linux runs on present-day hardware. Actually, I was not at all concerned about the ROM. I was concerned about the hardware platform. Seeing things like Java on my HP48GX I know how expandable the system is without even modifying the ROM. I am quite sure that the HP49G will more adequately fit my needs. The concern is this: if indeed the HP49G has now become a dead end as far as HP is concerned (this much even seems uncertain), everyone is going to be forced over to someone else sooner or later. How soon? I don't know. If HP stops selling graphing calculators tomorrow, I would suspect that even if the ROM is GPL'd and all the old hats stay around, there won't be a lot of work done. If HP continues selling the 49G for three or four years, then I'd buy one in an instant. I don't know what their plans are though. -- John Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142456 on Wed, 7 Nov 2001 at 09:03:25, John Goerzen wrote: Just to remind you that HP aren't spending any money at all on buying Compaq since it is an all share offer. The \money\ comes from issuing new share-capital which means that all existing shareholders see their shares diluted in value by a fraction that is roughly equal to $18.4bn divided by the total number of HP shares currently issued. Regards, -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48 Subject: Re: Alternatives to HP48/49? Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142457 The theory of such purchases is that the shares of the buyer are not diluted. After the purchase, there are more shares in the combined company, but the post-acquisition per-share value is comparable to the pre-acquisition value since the assets are now those of the combined company. Remember that at least in theory, the acquired company's assets are valuable and wind up owned by the acquiring company. In practice, the acquiring company often manages to screw up the acquired company and wind up with little value. For instance, just about every acquisition that AT&T ever did. Or Compaq's acquisition of DEC. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142473 (snip) (snip again my support, since anyone with a brain can come to the same conclusions) Scribe and Organizer, I think for both 48 and 49, are on hpcalc.org and make a pretty good PIM. Of course with this data you can just make a big CHOOSE Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142491 news:87r8rbd0mi.fsf@complete.org... You talking about the autosimplification feature? Get the TI-92+ emulator and try it yourself. I did the same when I have to choose between the Texas and the 49. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142455 Sorry if you read this post for the second time. I have to repost it because of an unidentified problem :-( Le 2 Nov 2001 02:41:09 -0800, gtsiros@yahoo.com (George Tsiros) a \216crit : gx. Hello Georges ! It is a great idea, but you are not the only one who have this project. There is 3 french projects like this one : - ShellOS was a multitasking OS for the HP48Gx. There is a demo available (I think you can find it on hpcalc.org). Unfortunately it seems that the authors can't work on this project anymore, and that thay have lost the sources :-( - SOS (Saturn Operating System) was a project started by myself. It is a multitasking OS. It was designed for the HP49G but could easily be adapted to the HP48. Actually there is only a little part of the kernel done (and sorry, the documentation is in french, but it could be translated), so there is no demo available. You can download the sources here : http://clement.pillias.free.fr/hp/SOS.zip or here : http://clement.pillias.free.fr/hp/SOS.tgz Actualy I don't work on this project since I want to finish Doom first. - WinSOS is a project similar to SOS, started by Yves Brisseaud (the one who did the MASD mode for emacs recently). The project also include a graphical user interface made by someone else (sorry I don't remember his name :-( ). This project is not more advanced than SOS, and can be found here : http://www.winsos.cjb.net Since WinSOS take some parts from SOS, the two projects will probably merge in a near future, at least to have a common kernel. Well, it could be funny to merge your project with this two ones ;-) Sorry for my poor english. Bye. Cl\216ment Pillias (HpFool). Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142475 Yes, that is the right name. SOS for the HP calcs. ;-) Only joking (but with a bitter taste, regarding that HP seems to abandon tha calculators :-( ) Greetings, Nick. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142426 Has anyone else experienced difficulty in obtaining these books: Science and Engineering Mathematics on the HP49G Vol1 and Vol2? According to the web site (BookSurge), all books ship within 48 hours. I ordered these books over three weeks ago. I can't get much of a response to my inquiries. Can these books be ordered somewhere else. Thanks, Pat Moran X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142433 On 7 Nov 2001 07:14:58 -0800, moranpl@springmail.com (Patrick L. Moran) wrote: I ordered mine on the thirtieth and got a message on Friday, after an inquiry, from a fellow named Rick Jones rickjones@greatunpublished.com, who said it was to be shipped on Friday the 2nd. Does anyone know where the books are really shipped from? I think I remember when I bought one of Dr. Urroz's books for the 48, that it came from North Carolinas. Any comments? Harold A. Climer Physics/Astronomy Lab Instructor U. Tennessee At Chattanooga Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142445 Hi, with all the commotion going on about creating the next best super powerful calculator I can't refrain to at least speak my mind. We have to acknowledge that the entire industry is shifting and for a reason. I'm not saying that it is a good or bad decision and I'm happy to see initiative and creative thinking to look for alternatives from users that do not want to settle with the corporate decision making process. What I do not understand is why everyone thinks that the power has to come from the unit at hand. I read many debates about which CPU to use, at how many Hz it should run and different compromises to conserve power. There is a lot computing power around us and we don't use it. Nevertheless, we want to have the most powerful number crunching machine close to us. For the most part I like to agree, I'm a performance freak myself. However, this paradigm is NOT practical. At least not now that communication technologies abound. I believe that the next best calculator (or any portable computing device for that matter) should take advantage of that and run as a dummy terminal. In fact I'm creating a web-based wrapper that sends commands to the Mathematica 4.0 Kernel and sends back the answer in HTML format. In essence, everywhere I have an internet device I can access the power of a robust tool that is sitting on my home machine doing nothing most of the day on my idle P3 1Ghz w/ 256mb RAM. The question is, If I already have that, why do I need to worry about how much power I can squeeze from a 4 Mhz Saturn CPU, StrongARM or any other microcontroller? They can not compete. Therefore, we should we worrying about how we can harness that power and make it accessible. PDA’s with internet access are great for displaying information, they have nice big LCD’s (plots converted to gif’s, formulas, etc on a browser). The port of the wrapper could easily be done for Maple, MathCAD or any other of your favorite applications. I realize that you still need to have a powerful math application, an expensive PDA with web access, have your computer set-up as a web server always connected via cable-modem or other connections. But that is why the industry is shifting, in the near future this will not be an issue, just like cell phones are today (that’s another idea, how about accessing MAPLE with your phone). This is just a prototype and in the future could serve hundreds of users (license issues may have to be resolved). Business could offer the service and charge small fees for its use, via a monthly payment or a one time subscription, so user don’t have to worry about having the latest most powerful calculator gadget on the block using valuable real state on your pocket. Anyone with a small HTML capable device with a connection will enjoy the same capabilities, no matter if you paid $600 for your color LCD PDA or the simplest most featureless internet capable organizer. This is just for consideration, it has its limitations and problems but I believe it is a legitimate alternative that more people should start looking into. The corollary of all this is that application development should focus on robust OO languages available for PC platforms (like the C++ CAS being developed by B. Parisse for example) under GPL licenses and then create ways to access its power with web-based devices. Of course, this alternative would be out of the question for exams like the EIT, PE, GRE, SAT, etc, but this is more for everyday work/education on mathematics, engineering, physics, etc. You would still have to study for you exams !!!!!! J Do not discard this too soon, give it some though, you’ll realize it make a lot of sense. At least it does to me. On the other hand, who am I. J Just a graduate foreign engineering student at the University of Florida. Go GATORS! BTW. I’m a proud owner of an HP49. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142452 Sorry, I totally disagree. I am an engineer and allthough building sites are getting pretty sofisticated I doubt there'll be an Internet Connection on the 10th floor when the concrete hasen't even been poured. My meetings also rarely have computers or IP connections though the developers are usually flashing the latest PDA's and phones. Actually I have a little snigger when the money men hold up the meetings for 5 minutes to enter the next meeting time in their calander. Paper is still best for somethings. As for wireless technology a lot of remote sites don't even have Mobile Phone reception. When I'm out of the office 90% of the time all I want to do are simple back of envelope type calcs so something small with instant On is a must. I don't take my laptop to meetings or site since it's bulky, fragile and to slow to boot up. Anything that needs a laptop is probably to complex to be giving quick answers away from the office. I find that with the HP49 I am using spreadsheets a lot less. Spreadsheets have an inherent flaw that they hide how a result was derived leading to errors that aren't caught. The laptop is being used for detailed design runs, 2D/3D analysis, correspodence, comminication.......... news:d690d283.0111071224.2321421e@posting.google.com... charset=\iso-8859-1\ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142462 Can't they? The XScale is built around the Pentium III core, and @ 1 GHz scores 1280 MIPS. Pretty decent of a 1.7 W processor. And they use alot of power - how does 4-5 hours sound like? A powerplug is as rare on most grounds where such a device is needed, as internet access is. And a flat-rate dedicated 400 Mbit/s wireless internet connection. That's not in the near future. You'd have an equal hard time maintaining all this, with internet connectivity, html and so forth. Why will such software not run on the portable device itself? But this stems from the whole idea of not having a calculator anymore - you'd need to some extent to make such a device usable for students. Not as a primary goal, but usable nonetheless. Regards Steen Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142463 Diego, I like the idea in principle, but I think that the wireless technology and coverage that would enable the connections needed are too far away. Always-on connections are here, but there isn't much take-up of them due to cost and availability at the moment, but this could change. So I think \ your idea should be tried just to see how well it worked.. Personally I would not want to rely on a global infrastructure to ensure that I would be able to do some calculations. I agree that the power available in PCs is much greater than that in low power devices like calculators. But for most of us, this power is heavily diluted by the fact that the machines are running Windows and compiled or interpreted software. The HP calculators like the 49 and 48 allow \ low-level use to optimise performace, and get rid of all the overhead which comes \ with making everything user-friendly etc. Not that I'm against \ user-friendliness :-) Thanks for your suggestion. At least it makes us think about what could happen. Mark Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142464 I understant your point. I meant wireless internet connection. In fact, I \ do that all the time right know. I connect with my PDA to my home PC and download word doc's, excel files, etc. THis is only going to get more \ common in the future. As a matter of fact, regarding your comment, there is nothing to disagree about. I did not make any assertions, just commented on some use of a current technology that will keep growing, my message was just about \ finding yet another use for it (the technology). I know that some might argue that the communications overhead outweight the potential for practical use. My answer is YES, it is true. This is not convenient for everyday use nor simple calculations. However, any PDA with decent software can handle simple calculations with ease so you won't need the remote connection. I'm thinking about complex, high precision calculations that not even the best calculator can handle but robust mathematical packages like Maple or Mathematica can. A good example is optimization topics. For calculators, there are some programs for LP \ problem using the simplex method which can't even handle degeneracy and other complications in discrete number theory. Lets not even go to mix integer programs, or stochastic programming, global optimization, non-linear opt, etc. I'm in Operation Research and calculators do not help me that much in problems with large number of varaibles and constraints. With this I can have modeling languages like AMPL and solvers like CPLEX available all the time. Just write and send the model in AMPL, let the wrapper do its work, and receive the answer from the solver in my web-enabled wireless device. I know, these are now problems that are likely to come up in the middle of \ the street or shopping and you have to have an answer. But, it is good to know you can count on it if you do need it.Otherwise, why bother, any good HP or TI is overkill for daily use. Today the communications overhead IS a constraint, but, can you say that \ 1-2 years down the road. Maybe, maybe not. Just a thought. Diego. news:9scdru$3l9$1@merki.connect.com.au... minutes back be Spreadsheets Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142465 We all have different requirements. With all this talk of a \supercalc\ \ I wanted to make sure that the thing doesn't bloat into something that will \ no longer be convenient for what is the core functions of a Calculater. \ Quick, go anyware, small, allways there when you need it. Runs forever so you never worry about batteries. If the next great calc doesn't fullfill my needs I can see me having to put the 49 in cotton wool cause it's going to have to last a long time. My \ HP41 did me 12 years and is still working on the last batteries I put in it 18 months ago. news:9sdaht$ldk$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu... do common finding the problem I the or 1-2 sites Connection for to Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142469 I found your reply interesting , I've often wondered if Surveyors were the only people that need a small light weight and \long lasting\ battery capability. I could carry a laptop into the woods with me and possibly put up with the weight factor but when your using it all day long (sometimes hooked to the gun ) the battery is the real issue. The 48 slips nicely into a large BDU type pocket or a small section of your backpack. No, the XScale is build around an ARM core (ARM v.5TE instruction set). A Pentium III core would always consume MORE than 1.7W @ 1GHz... Regards J\232rn charset=\iso-8859-1\ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142485 problem Are you not reading the posts? Tell me one math package that the discussed Intel 80200 device doesn't have hardware to run? Stop talking about puny little calculators - they are not in this league. 1-2 Don't know. It'll cost you., that's for sure. Network licenses of software is usually much more expensive than single PC licenses. You're usually allowed to use a single PC license on all your own personal computers, so \ if you save USD 10,000 on the software, you'd easily throw an extra USD 200 at a smart math device, wouldn't you? Regards Steen Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142488 So my choice are: 1) one time purchase of a 'regular' calculator for ~$200 2) one time purchase of 'your' calculator for $100 and $100/month for airtime to use it? So over a year plan 1 costs $200 while plan 2 costs $1300. Yeah! That sounds like a great deal! And I'll have no problems using it anywhere right? Steel building? Mall? Basement? Parking garage? Subway? Car? Don't take this wrong but it sounds like your idea is a 'cool' answer to a question nobody has asked. (i.e. misuse of technology just for technology's sake) -- john R. Latala jrlatala@golden.net Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142492 And here I thought I was the only one with this pet peeve. Devices with battery lifetimes measured in hours just seem like such dumb ideas. It's one thing if it's for something like a forklift truck that you charge up overnight when you're done for the day but for something you can throw into a briefcase or backpack and take with you it's seems kind of ludicrous. I remember a friend of mine ranting and raving about how much smaller his new portable CD player was. When I asked to see it he showed me the carryall bag he kept it in ... along with 20 CDs, three battery packs and the charger. -- john R. Latala jrlatala@golden.net charset=\iso-8859-1\ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142500 Yes. I know I've read it somewhere a long time ago, but it showed up to be in another context. See this paper: http://www.intel.com/design/iio/prodbref/80310.htm Regards Steen Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142435 I've crossposted from alt.lang.basic for the writer. Please reply to me jwwed@supanet.com ----------------------------- Original post ----------------------------- how do I write an HP48 emulator in dos How 2 do it? PS: i've not crossposted to comp.sys.hp(?)because i don't have access to it. Thank U for reading :-} -- ICQ: 127036017 && 126735906 mIRC on #Win9x na Brasnet e #Novocanal da Dalnet, al\216m de irc.via-rs.com.br no canal #chatcity. AIm: Renan Birck ComVC:1127268 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142451 On Tue, 06 Nov 2001 07:51:56 GMT, Jonathan Purvis Would there be a chance for an HP-16C? A computer programmer calculator on the palm! Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142417 Hello Week ago I bought myself HP49G. Well, I can't say that I'm too happy to \ read all this stuff about ACO and such, but what should I say. I know why I bought it, and I'm wery pleased with it. I have few questions. When I try to transfer some programs from friend's 48 to my 49, both calculators report invalid syntax, and stop the transfer. What could be the cause, and how can I fix that. Is there any program for 49, that can calculate specific heat capacity. Thanks. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142419 In both calculators use ASCII transfer In the 49G: [MODE] [F3] [DOWN-ARROW] [DOWN-ARROW] Check the Approx Mode by pressing [F3] [F6] [F6] Now your 49G is in the \48G Compatibility Mode\ I hope this helped! Veli-Pekka PS: you're not related to O. BLaden, are you? ;-) news:9sb70b$6kn$1@bagan.srce.hr... read 48 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=\Windows-1252\ Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142429 Hewlett Family Opposes Support of Compaq Deal: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54760-2001Nov7.html Content-Type: text/plain; charset=\Windows-1252\ Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142444 Hewlett Family, Packard Heir Oppose Compaq Merger: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50356-2001Nov6.html :: CODE GOSBVL =SAVPTR * Save RPL pointers GOSUB ASCII NIBHEX 6464 ASCII C=RSTK D1=C LC(5) 00022 D=C A B=0 A LC(5) 00004 GOSBVL =$5x7 GOVLNG =GETPTRLOOP * return to System RPL ENDCODE ; Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142421 Hello news:cbd834ed.0111061940.14bb19de@posting.google.com... Here is thedocumentation for the entry $5x7: ***************************************************************** ***************************************************************** ** *A Name: $5x7 - Write 5x7 pxl data for string at Ith char in Row ** ** Category: DSPUTL ** ** Abstract: Writes 5x7 bit patterns for given character string ** starting at specified address (S) offset by a character ** position index (I). Data for subsequent pixel rows of ** each character is offset by (W) nibs from the preceding. ** ** ** D0:S (Start of \row\) ** B[A]: I (Chr Pos'n (0 - ..)) ** C[A]: N (String Length) ** D[A]: W (Row Width in nibs) ** ** Exit: 5x7 Bit Pattern for string written. ** XM: Font Table Flag (0=5x7, 1=5x9) ** CC iff next chr is at \even\ location. ** ** Alters: CPU - A[A],B[A],C[S,A]; D0,D1; P, CARRY, SB,XM ** RAM - Destination ** ** Calls: PtBits(0), sub8/10(0), Set8/10(0) ** ** Stack Levels: 4 (RSTK=C GOSUB go?Covered CON(5) =cPt2Bits) ** ** Notes: ** (1). The 5x7 font for Chr Pixels is at =PIX5X7, 16 bytes/chr ** The 5x9 font for Chr Pixels is at =PIX5X9, 20 bytes/chr ** -------------------------------------------------------------- ** (2). Generally, the starting address S is the start of ** pixel data for a \row\ of the display. I is an ** option base 0 index specifying where the pixel data for ** the 1st character will start in the given row. The ** address X where the 1st character will start is: ** ** X := S + 1.5*I (each char takes 6 bits = 1.5 nibs) ** ** The width W is the number of nibs that must be added to ** X to obtain the address where the 2nd row of pixel data ** for the 1st char should be written. ** -------------------------------------------------------------- ** (3). Applications - Writing string pixel data: ** ** a) Into a grob. ** b) Directly into Display Refresh RAM ** ** Implied by (a) is \substring\ replacement operations. ** ie; ability to replace a specified number of \characters\ ** in a grob with others. ** -------------------------------------------------------------- ** D0:S (Start of \row\) ** B[A]: I (Chr Pos'n (0 - ..)) ** C[A]: N (String Length) ** D[A]: W (Row Width in nibs) As you can see, your WIDTH is incorrectly set, it should be zero if you \ want to display at the beginning of the screen (cf the documentation Cheers Jean-Yves Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 14:54:45 +0100 Reply-To: t.rast@freesurf.ch X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [de] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16 i586) X-Accept-Language: de-CH, de, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142422 Timothy Ney wrote: This is what I'd do (tested, but not in Jazz syntax): ASSEMBLE NIBASC \\HPHP49-C\\ RPL :: CODE GOSBVL =SAVPTR GOSUB ascii NIBHEX 6464 * NIBASC \\FF\\ should also work ascii C=RSTK D1=C LC(5) #22 * 22h = 34d nibbles D=C A B=0 A LC(5) #2 * FF is only two characters GOSBVL =$5x7 GOVLNG =GETPTRLOOP ENDCODE ( now freeze the screen, else you won't see anything ) SetDAsTemp ; Thomas -- Thomas Rast \If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them.\ ICQ# 103670088 -- Harry S. Truman Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142427 Hey Jean-Yves, In case this documentation does not exist for the public in such a thorough form, is there a chance we could get a copy of it? This would be wondereful! Rgds, -Al -- -Al Arduengo ------------ \If at first you don't succeed, redefine success.\ -- -Al Arduengo ------------ \The higher we soar, the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly.\ -- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietsche Well, that's the information you find in the source code itself jean-yves Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142450 snip -- -Al Arduengo ------------ \Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.\ -- Sigmund Freud -- -Al Arduengo ------------ \He who laughs last thinks slowest!\ Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142453 What should I see? At the moment, all I can see is a smudge in the top left hand corner of the screen. Do I need to adjust settings etc. on the 49 to \see\ the string? Confused Now. I am compiling under HP Tools. Timothy Ney Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:39:40 +0100 Reply-To: t.rast@freesurf.ch X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [de] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16 i586) X-Accept-Language: de-CH, de, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142486 Timothy Ney wrote: It may be a mistake in my conversion from MASD to Jazz/HPTools syntax (I only use the GNUTools for hacking around on Jazz). This is my MASD source: :: CODE GOSUB .c NIBHEX 6464 *.c C=RSTK D1=C LC(5) 34 D=C.A B=0.A LC(5) 2 GOSBVL \$5x7\ LOADRPL ENDCODE SetDAsTemp ; CRC #01FAh, 42 bytes Thomas -- Thomas Rast \If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them.\ ICQ# 103670088 -- Harry S. Truman Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142416 Yep, you are right about speed. I still wonder though, what speed could be reached if the hardware would be a little more modern. Hmmm, and is it as easy to use? I mean is it: buy it, get it out of the box and use it? I have the (perhaps wrong) impression that PocketPC and GPL software are not as easy to get them running. Or do I live in the past (again)? Now, *that* is a good idea! I hope that all people from the scientific/technology world can stand together, to give the companies reason for making a \math-PDA\ at last. :-) Well, if everything is pre-installed and works before delivery then it would be fine. But it would be not so good to expect from the user to be a PC expert to install and configure everything. Yes, yes, yes. :-) I meant something that doesn't need a \standard\ OS (windows -yacks!!!) for other software to run. Something that has its own (easy) OS and doesn't need 100 configuration files, only to tell you then that program A can't run because file B is not there. (While you see that file B is there ;-) ) What is Maxima? Math-software? Yes, and a very strong touch, it seems. Do you think that the Jedis will return? What do you think it would be like? I guess it would be more in the direction of the question, is A.I a living thing or not? If it knows that it is there, it is a living thing? Take care, Nick. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142489 Hello, I'm just programming a little in UserRPL, and now I'm in need to convert a list of elements (real numbers) into a vector. Has anyone an idea, for i couldn't find a suitable command in the manual. Thanks Paul Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142493 works pretty well. If you are using a HP49, I think AXL would work. -Al m_korium@hotmail.com (Paul Strobel) writes: -- -Al Arduengo ------------ \Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. That's relativity.\ -- Albert Einstein -- -Al Arduengo ------------ \If you can smile when things go wrong, you have someone in mind to blame.\ -- This message was written with 100% recycled electrons Pivo From: newbury@mandamus.org (R. G. Newbury) Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48 User-Agent: ProNews/2 V1.51.ib102 MIME-Version: 1.0 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142496 On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 18:33:06, m_korium@hotmail.com (Paul Strobel) wrote: Chapter 12 of the User's Guide starting at page 12-11, and continueing on to chapter 13 for the 48G. There are built in commands for 'vectorization' and parallel commands which you might 'think' should work, but don't. you { 2.0 45.0} This is a LIST, not a vector or an array. you [ 2.0, 45.0 ] This looks like a vector. [2.0, 45.0] directly. If you want a 'radius, angle' type of vector you have to change from RECT mode to CYLIN *before* the conversion. '<' stands in for the little angle glyph which is on the keyboard as {rightarrow SPC}. Note that changing the mode to Cylin has the effect of changing all vectors in the stack to their 'other' form.. conversions which existed on the HP41 and from the 48SX. I ended up writing small subroutines which do these conversions on the 48GX changing mode as required and restoring them. The conversion normalizes theta to +/- 180 which is no good for navigation.. The implementation is left to the student as a learning experience (because in fact, you will learn more by playing around and writing your own.. You can also use the -15, -16, -17 and -18 flags, which makes state restoration easier to assess and reset.) Geoff Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142504 { 2 3 4 } [ [ 2 3 4 ] ] This works for every dimension. Regards Christoph news:ae5baadc.0111081033.4be7e587@posting.google.com... Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142446 Hello Eveyrone! I've been asking lots of questions here lately, mainly because I'm still in the process of configuring my Calc to suit my needs as an engineering student. My intention is to post most of my config here, and maybe get some new ideas and feedback from you! (Before commenting the names of my dirs and variables, keep in mind that it's \just names\ that fits my taste... I'm sure everybody would come up with something different.) OK, about my Calc: It's a HP48GX with the newest Rom and a 512 Kb memory card. Hmm, anything else? I don't think so, let's get on with it! - INSTALLED LIBRARIES - Port0: (68K Free) 257: UFL (full version) 787: Kernel (Erable) 905: QPI 1081: GxTools 5.1 1696: AllMem Port2: (104K Free) 769: Tetris (yeah!) 807: TicTacToe 1111: Sokoban 1213: Lemmings Port3: (56K Free) 744: SymVector 909: Alg48 4.2 911: SpecFun (Alg48) 913: InteGr (Alg48) 1494: NeoPoly 6.5 Port4: (57K Free) 788: Erable v. 3.117 789: Arit (Erable) 790: Geom (Erable) 791: Prep (Erable) 792: LinAlg (Erable) Port5: (123K Free) System Backup - HOME DIRECTORY STRUCTURE - First, I have 6 subdirectories for CST-menu: Numeric, Games, Utilities, Applications, Computer, Conversion Numeric is equivalent to the Calc's MTH menu, just more advanced, and with the commands I use (more about that later). Games is for entertainment! :-) Utilities is for extensions to the calc, not found in the MTH menu (e.g. Limits, Diff. Equations, Integrals etc.). Applications is for specific programs (none installed yet). Computer contains user units from bit to Tbit and byte to Tbyte. Conversion contain radian, binary and HMS conversion commands. Next is 4 subdirs for customization: Formulas, Functions, Text, Libraries Formulas is for custom equations from textbooks, which can be solved with the equation solver. Functions is where I store my custom programs (mainly vector/complex commands, and my RD10 program). Text is for storing small messages and ToDo notes - nice and handy. Libraries is primarily for storage of downloaded/uninstalled libraries but currently I only have a backup copy of Keys and Flags there. Then there's 2 variables EQ and VX, and the user units byte/bit-Tbyte/bit. And of course CST-menu and parameter files. - USER KEYS - OK, now it gets interesting. The very first custom element is, that the keys A-F have shift-assignments. This is virtually 12 free user keys, as I very rarely use shifted menus (and if I must, I can turn off user). For my basic config, these 6 have the letters A-F left-assigned, and X,Y,Z,N,T and my function dir ({HOME Functions}) right-assigned. Next up, alpha-right H and J is assigned to \-OO\ and \+OO\ (that's infinity). Then right-[STO] is STEQ and left-[<-] is AllMem; right-[EVAL] is QPI and [EVAL] is my RD10 function, which converts to numeric, and rounds the answer to 10 digits (QPI can still convert correctly to symbolic). For alpha keyboard, right-V, right-W and right-X is assigned to their normal functions (root, y^x and 1/x), so you can use them while in alpha mode. The [ENTER] key has DUP assigned to the left and EVAL assigned to the right (I rarely use Equation/Matrix), these commands are more handy for programming purposes... Finally, right-[DEL] has array to list conversion, and right-[BS] has array (2D) to complex conversion. In addition, the 9 number keys have some key bindings in user mode, for instance 6 (units) have unit factorization (left) and SI-unit conversion (right). In some cases I have to turn off the user keys if I want to enter the standard applications, but I prefer command line operations all the way. - CUSTOM MENU - Finally, there's the custom menu. Apart from the basic commands mentioned in the dir section, there are some more submenus in the Numeric and Utility parts. The Numeric menu contains 6 submenus so far: Vector, Matrix, Polynomial, Algebra, Real, Complex The first 4 are special, since when you enter these menus, part of the keyboard is also remapped. Vector and Matrix has commands from Alg48 assigned to the +, -, *, / and 1/x buttons. Besides, the right-[ENTER] is now the Erable command EXPAND instead of EVAL. Polynomial has commands from NeoPoly assigned to the equivalent buttons (y^x instead of 1/x), and Algebra returns the keyboard to normal. The Utility menu contains 4 submenus, namely: Simplify, Limits, Integration, Diff. Equations. Here I've put different Erable commands for these subjects... For instance, my integration menu is: - FINAL REMARKS - For the custom menu, I've made GROB's to represent: 1: The 4 first labels in the Numeric menu, because programs are executed. 2: The first label in every \dir-menu\, so that you can tell CST-menu from VAR's (the first tab is slighty longer). I would like to enhance my configuration even more, but I still need to do some of the menus... I've also thought about installing EQSTK, it's my impression it will work well with this config. But please, if you have any comments, do not hesitate to respond, I'm interested in your feedback! best regards, Artur -- . Artur Meinild . . . . . : . \232lge R ud\237r . . . ___________________________________________________ E·mail : 6paq@messages.to : W·mail : 6paq@go.to E·site : 6paq.messages.to : W·site : 6paq.go.to Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142449 I just got the 49G and the instructions are horrible that came with it. I was wondering how I would go about doing the sample program the \ instructions give on page 10-2? I type it all out on the main line but when I push STO the words come out instead of the arrow. Am I supposed to be in some special mode? Also How would I use an equation written in pretty type and put that into the program? Is there a site with a better manual? Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142466 Verify you're in RPN mode: that's the best way to get quickly a good programmer on the HP49g. Press 'Mode', then choose 'RPN' instead of the level 1 of the stack. Enter the name of the variable you want to use, with simple quotes: 'NameOfProg'. Now you have on level 2 the prog, an on level 1 the global name of the prog. Press 'STO'. It should work ! A piece of advice: forget absolutely Algebraic programming: very slow, very few people using it... Anyway, you can either press the key 'STO' or type in the command line 'STO' and then valid: both work in RPN mode. For tutorials, visit www.hpcalc.org, www.hp-network.com (french-speaking site) or www.hp-sources.com (french too) I hope it will help you, Regards, HPThifu Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142474 First of all, are you in RPN or algebraic mode? Generally speaking, when you program, you start and end the program by before the program end delimiter, then this command is added as a part of the program. In algebraic mode, you can press ENTER when typing the program is finished, and then use STO to store the program. In RPN Mode you can press ENTER then the name of the variable to store the program and the press STO to store the program. Hope it helped, Nick. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142479 to get out of it. THen I push STO and type a name in. It says too few arguments and doesnt show the arrow when I push STO. news:cd9ca36b.0111080536.5105c455@posting.google.com... I instructions STO and Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142483 Remember, RPN requires the arguments THEN the command. You are pressing STO when there is no name on the stack to store the code in. Simply press ENTER when you are done typing the program. Then type in a name between the '' marks (use the ' key) press ENTER again. You should now have your program on stack level 1 and the name on stack level 2. *Then* press STO. -Al -- -Al Arduengo ------------ ** Hello and Welcome to the Psychiatric Hotline ** If you are obsessive-compulsive, please press 1 repeatedly. If you are co-dependent, please ask someone to press 2. If you have multiple personalities, please press 3, 4, 5 and 6. If you are paranoid-delusional, we know who you are and what you want - just stay on the line so we can trace the call. If you are -- -Al Arduengo ------------ \Software is like sex: the best is for free\ -- Linus Torvalds Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142394 news:52dgutstehcrqn518oc1mjdm6tkbeqoeup@4ax.com... X Yeah !!! X Ofcourse an ASIC will cost greekly more than FPGA BUT I think it's worth it ! Veli-Pekka The Marketing Manager of the Virtual Platform(TM) OS ;-) Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142425 The specs that have been suggested here for a new, much-improved 'better-than-HP' calculator included things like a nice low-power ARM processor, lots of memory, smaler physical size ... perhaps we'd all end up with something like this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/22699.html (No, this is not intended as a serious suggestion for choosing a base for such a product - but perhaps lessons can be learned, ideas borrowed, from this device.) // Christian charset=\iso-8859-1\ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142441 Hmm, I haven't seen this before, but I can comment a bit on similarities: Pogo \Virtual Platform\ ;-) CPU: 75 MHz ARM 1 GHz ARM RAM 16 MB 96-512 MB Interface: Stylus Keyboard MP3: Yes Yes Screen; Resol.: 320x240 320x240 Colour: Yes No (grayscale) Backl. No Yes Batterylife; On: 5-6 h 250 h Std.by: 100 h 3 years+ USD: 435 150-250 Regards Steen Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142395 news:1e2c6ff4.0111061453.2c966e26@posting.google.com... So you want to design a \Jupiter\ A next generation of Saturn with HW multiplication, etc... Veli-Pekka Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142396 news:8jbgut8aafna0qprdhnh5jqtkg59aic5mb@4ax.com... X OK! For the third generation that is! 1) Make Saturn XP = X=10=#Ah timers the P=Power eg. new process & lower voltage 2) Make Jupiter, a HW enhanced Saturn XP 3) Go to Xscale-II for an emulated or simulated RPL-OS backwards compatible with 1) & 2) Correct? Veli-Pekka X -------- X But there is no HW floating point support (yet) :-( regards, Veli-Pekka PS: I will still bet on the XScale-50MHz as the future 3G-calc-OS running Virtual Platform Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142409 Stephane Cocquereaumont wrote: Great! Bye, Mario .vic Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142467 I need to find a computer IDE program for the HP48gx that will let me write programs and debug them before downloading them to the 48gx. I don't want to do assembly language which appear to be the only type of emulators that I've found. I just want one that will let me program in the standard basic type language that is vaquely outlined in the HP manual. I have one for my TI-83 and it works great. Does anyone know where you can buy something like this for the hp48 ?? And also what exactly do the following terms represent , 1. User RPL , 2. System RPL , and 3. Flash Rom assembly language ? Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142482 Hi JR, There are several options for programming in all the available languages and you should be able to find them at www.hpcalc.org in the PC tools and/or programming sections. Heck, you can use any text editor to program in USER RPL. As for what the languages are: 1. User RPL is the highest level language available on the calc. It provides necessary argument checking anf error detection to prevent (in most cases) crashes and data loss. User RPL is just the entire collection of all the built in commands on the calc. 2. SysRPL is System RPL. It is the set of commands that the user does not have direct access to using the calculator in a normal mode. There are many more SysRPL commands available than UserRPL but most of these commands require careful use as they do not provide automatic argument checks and error handling. You can speed up programs significantly using SysRPL and in many cases it will result in smaller code size than an equivalent UserRPL code block. SysRPL requires a compiler (available in PC executable form or several on board versions like Jazz) and a table of entry points. The table merely equates the tokens used in the source code like \DUP#1+\ or \XYGROBDISP\ to their address locations in the ROM. In my opinion SysRPL is the most popular of the languages used by the regulars on this group. 3. There is no \Flash Rom Assembly Language\ as you call it but there is Assembly Language. This is the lower level of the three we are talking about. It provides virtually direct control of every aspect of the hardware. With this control, however, comes the increased risk of crashes, data corruption etc since NO error handling o or argument checking of any kind is provided. The programmer must handle all aspects of the code insuring that possible errors are handled, argments are present when needed and memory is controlled and manipulated correctly. It is not nearly as readable as higher level languages and involves direct manipulation of the chips registers, memory contents, IO buffers etc. It also requires an assembler and linker which, as with SysRPL, is also available on the computer or the calc. Other options less popular are Machine code (hex code), an old language targetted at game design (forgot the name), and probably a few other unknowns. MASD, the programming environment found in the HP49 and the HP48 version of MetaKernel provides some slick high level methods of programming in assembly. Of course the UserRPL compiler is built in and requires no third party tools to use. You can debug UserRPL on the calc or you can use Emu48 to do it all then fetch the program from the emulator to your actual calc. The possibilities are numerous. Hang around here and see. Make sure you read everything you can in the programming section of hpcalc.org. Rgds, -Al -- -Al Arduengo ------------ \The only `intuitive' interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.\ -- -Al Arduengo ------------ \Real Programmers think better when playing Adventure or Rogue.\ Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142400 news:Xns9150F3860D784vinceWURLDLINKNET@64.164.98.7... X Could I conVince you, Vince, about the benefits of a new design of the calculators OS, implemented on an Xscale CPU. I would like to call it: Virtual Platform like in, say \VP-58GX\ (nothing to do with Vincent Poy or Veli-Pekka ;-) [VPN] Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142411 $1h1$1@news.kolumbus.fi: Not a bad idea... hehe ;) Cheers, Vince Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142414 news:Xns91521AB5887C9vinceWURLDLINKNET@64.164.98.6... And maybe even Vassilis Prevelakis vprev@vp.com.gr from http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi?read=12064 would like that name? [VPN] Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142415 news:9sb5p7$ej5$1@news.kolumbus.fi... X Paul Vollbracht paul.vollbracht@toyota.be from http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi?read=12321 might ask for a coin toss - once again !!! Will the history repeat itself !!! Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142403 news:9s99o4$g3l$1@beta.szi.fh-jena.de... For the Xscale version (third generation) OS: Virtual Platform eg. VP-58GX regards, Veli-Pekka Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142382 Jonathan Busby wrote: Could you, please, give some examples how many clock cycles it takes for Saturn to execute typical commands binary commands and the size of the \ operand ? Jack operand ? http://ca-on.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/programming/cycles.zip Note the nibbling of the 64-bit accumulators during a full-width operation. Also: No HW multiply, divide, etc.. [VPN] Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142383 Hmm... how did you guess that ;-) Why wouldn't I join? Sorry, I don't have $100,000 yet :-) Bhuvanesh. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142384 I think that full Sys-RPL support should exist, or do plan on rewriting a whole mathematical software suite for the new system? Yes, i believe the machine and it's OS should be totally new, and written for portability and high-level programming, however, i think that the \mathematical\ part of the software should be sys-rpl as an interpreted language, much like it is now, because it would still evolve, if it hadn't reached the maximum capability out of the hardware. Steve Sousa Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142385 No, we use commas. I see... I didn't realize that. Cool! :-) Regards, Bhuvanesh. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142401 news:e726e217.0111061810.18631dd7@posting.google.com... going CAS First Emulated, later native. We can keep the emulator. 1) Saturn XP = Saturn in, say 0.25 micron process & lower voltage 2) Jupiter = greatly enhanced Saturn with 32-bit addressing, HW*/ etc. 3) XScale implementation of the Virtual Platform, runnning RPL-emulator with compiler So it be... [VPN] Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142424 but it's already available in the debug2 program... Jean-Yves news:87wv14ylr9.fsf@austin.rr.com... new (and it 150 is bit XScale 600-1200 that Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142436 As if I need another Hp calculator, but the BullS*** we get from the upper management at Hp is horrendous. At least we as a group can tell when they lie to us. Just watch for their lips to move. The following answer is pat and sounds good, but now for the reality. Look around. All the major outlet stores are clearing out inventories of their Hp stock of calculators (aside from the new junk ie 10BII) That is all I find if I find Hp. I cannot find Hp32s, 20s, or 48G's anymore. I know that a few stores still carry old stock, but Target, K-mart, Walmart, Officemax and Staples only carry the 10Bii. Therefore the message below doesn't ring all that true to me. Therefore, my query, aside from a few vendors on the WEB, where do you go to buy Hp scientific calculators. If there is no major outlet, the message above is truly BS of the first order. And since I suspected as such before I posted, I can't/won't believe much from Hp upper management until refuted and proved otherwise. I await such proof, and will gladly humble myself and apologize for my skeptism. Until then however, I say: \Carly Foirna and her lacky sidekick Iain Morris are two Jerk CEO's that have contributed to Hp's withdrawal of a Market that Hp used to RULE. Poor marketing and follow the leader (Ti) mentality have put Hp in the backseat on a downhill skid that probably no one can stop.\ No, I don't have the answers either, but I feel that Hp's abandonment of this area will cost the company prestige and market aligience in the future. My first Hp product was an Hp15c that is still with me to this day (I used and abused this calculator for nearly 10 years, prior to that I went through a Ti every year). This calculator introduced me to a whole world of instrumentation and controls as well as Pc's and printers. oh well... I await anyone to refute my comments and negative ramblings. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142468 You can buy hp48gx's at Allen Precision Equipment in Georgia for around $150.oo . The also have cogo cards for them for competive prices. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142470 Ron Ross wrote: Oh, well... perhaps someone realized that there are horrible major mistakes in their designs and they're being replaced. Mistakes such as premature wasting rubber keys, awful and twisted painted keys, rattling keys, low quality cases, and so on. (Not to mention the documentation, of course) In few words, it's as though Casio had taken over the industrial design of HP calcs. :-) Regards, Bye. Jordi Hidalgo johil@tv3mail.com - Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142389 On Tue, 06 Nov 2001 23:53:32 GMT, mschaef@bermuda.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) wrote: So they can keep their highly inflated and undeserved salaries and put people like JYA and the other members of the ACO out of work. I have always wondered why company CEOS still get bonuses when the company is losing money and downsizing thousands of people. Seems like the people that do the real work are always the first fired. Pardon me I am just venting. Harold A. Climer Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy U. Tennessee at Chattanooga Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142402 Bonjour! Thank you, Jean-Yves, for making the difference: I'm still a HP calculatrice fanatic Veli-Pekka PS: Your face will never fade of our v'ger's memory... news:jhXF7.145548$g8.85582@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142406 Harold A. Climer wrote in message That's why the stock market is in trouble...Not because of the terrorist attack...Alot of companies have been running on a thin profit margin... Terrorist attack was an excuse for alot of companies...The days working for a big company are pretty much over...I read articles in the newspapers that HP and alot of big companies in Silicon Valley were having a hard time attracting people for jobs.... Jas Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142410 /(&%\#!¤&% I took for real... [VPN] PS: You ASSUMEable rref-er to: \...continue as a good business for HP for a long time.\ BUT I'm still not laughing? news:9saran$ld0$1@web1.cup.hp.com... Calculators. in calculator Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142412 From Iain's reply: Oh, that's Great News! Aside from Vger's firmware, I don't like anything made by ACO. Well, \ perhaps I do like a couple of things, but I mean that the level reached at \ Corvallis has not been improved at all. I know they were wizards, but I'm sure it \ could happen again - after all, they are still alive, I hope! ;-) I hope HP can find the right place and the right people again for the real 48's successor. Please, no hurries! By the way, why has the new HP-12C version (that with one CR2032 batt) engraved the word Agilent on its CPU? Regards, Bye. Jordi Hidalgo johil@tv3mail.com - Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48 Subject: Re: You can make a difference Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:49:17 -0600 Lines: 49 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142431 Jordi Hidalgo wrote: Well, perhaps at Corvallis sure it could I suspect that's in the natural order of things. When they designed the 48SX they were doing something new. The features came from the designer's imaginations. Probably no-one else knew eough about the possibilities to interfere. But when they were working on the 48GX the marketers and executives already had a working model and had already probably heard a million ideas and probably all had their favorites and did what they could to see that they were implemented. The designers must have had less control with that never having been stated. With the 49G they also had some TI successes to compete with and that influenced the list of features, too. Less and less control by the designers. I'm just guessing at all of this. I have no slightest idea what went on at HP. But I've led programming projects that were totally new ideas and no-one really understood the possibilities and I know how I got left alone. If I wanted a suggestion I had to ask for it. Then, doing the second version of those same projects, everyone had ideas. The users and the VPs they worked for. My boss. His boss. His secretary. They all had suggestions. Some I could ignore. Some I couldn't. The second version might have been more useful and more tailored to the user's needs, but it was always less graceful, more confused, less coherent and more trouble to maintain. It's just how things work in business. The designer has a lot more ability to express his own ideas in his own way in the first edition of something very new than at any other time. Of course business has developed a partial cure for the designer's imagination in the first edition. It's called a prototype. :) Barry -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! ==----- Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142503 Hi Scott: I think you should e-mail him again, just to ask what \other location\ or department is going to handle calcs. I bet he chokes... Steve Sousa Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142386 As there is so much talk at the moment about new directions I'd like to \ ask: Just what is the perfect calculator each of us expects? If somebody uses this for market research then great I'll have a replacement for my 49 in a few years. If you assume it's going to be 2-3 years before a new calculator gets to \ the market we can assume that the PDA's will by then be fully functional \ windows devices. You'll able to run apps lick Mathcad, Maple etc with the only restrictions being screen real estate and hardware interface (touch screen limited keys. Any new calculator would have to compete with these and be sufficiently different in functionality to compete. So here is my stab at the basics: Size: Pocketable, smaller than HP49, size of HP42 if possible. The 48/49's are \ to big to be carried anywhere in your pocket. Whats acchievable will depend on interface and screen. One option could be pull out or flip out screen that retracted displays single line of result like a cheap calculator. Power: Uses standard batteries say 2xAAA. Batteries life of 2 months minimum. Screen: HP49 seems reasonable but higher resolution. 2 colour to keep cost and \ power down. User Interface: Has to use a keyboard for rapid input of calcs. RPN of course but \ Algebraic will be needed since RPN will have even less of a profile than now. 48 and 49 seem to have it about right for an advanced calculator. You \ can't get away from the need for a numeric keypad plus extra's for command functions, advanced features and menu. Touch screen just won't cut it as I don't want to stop to pull out a stylus in the middle of a calc. Memory: 1.5 Mb in the 49 seems to be heaps. With memory so cheap just give it access to memory flash cards or a heap of internal memory. CPU and OS Can't comment except it should be capable of emulating the HP48/49 functionality with improved speed. A dream would be to have the capability to run the same apps as your \ Desktop unit but the size and display of a calculator unit that I'm thinking of would make interacting with an App thats designed for a 15\ and a mouse \ very arkward. Cost of calculator would be much greater. External I/O USB would seem to be the most common cable connection with plenty of speed for a calculator. Some kind of cable-less connection would be nice. X 2*AA, can be operated on NiMH cells, too. [VPN] Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142404 Maybe a shrunken Xpander? Raymond Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48 Subject: Re: Your perfect Calculator expectations Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 11:23:53 -0600 Lines: 55 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142432 Stephen wrote: gets to the functional windows the only (touch screen these and be I have Derive, Mathcad and Matlab for my HP 200lx. The version of Derive I have was designed with the lx in mind. I'm not sure about the others but they work just fine. I don't have any need for these and my math is limited so I can't judge how they compare to the HP49. But they are certainly available in an HP49 size package with a screen about 3 times the size of the 49 screen and a QWERTY keyboard with a numeric keypad. (too small for touch typing). And good old HP sturdiness and reliability. The 200lx is almost exactly the same size as the 49G. It will fit (snugly) in the HP48 soft case. It's a PC that uses 2 AA batteries and gets about 40 hours from them and weighs 11 ounces including batteries. Rechargebles are fine. There is a recharger built in. It only knows how to charge standard Nicads but there is free software downloadble to control the charging in various ways. It can recharge the 1600 mah NIMH just fine. It also has Lotus 123 version 2.4 (complete) in rom, along with a lot of PDA apps, more powerful ones than are available in newer PDAs. Dos 5.0 is in ROM. Also Quicken, CC:Mail and an HP bussiness calculator (which talks to Lotus). Several full sets of internet software are available. Some free, some not. Several cards for wireless access are avaliable, as are modem cards. It has infra-red. A group of users are now looking into the possibity of Bluetooth. The power supplied to the PCMCIA port is limited so this may or may not work. With a Parallel port PCMCIA card it works fine with a Zip drive. It also runs Microsoft Flight Simulator 4.0, Word Perfect 5.1, dBase 3+, Paradox, most older compilers of most languages and a world of commercial games. All that and it fit's in my pocket. It also has a PCMCIA slot. I have a 160 meg flash card. It's my A: drive. They don't make them anymore but they're available all over the place and they supply seems to be increasing as time goes by. Barry -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! ==----- Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142437 it sounds great! now, if i could put my maple7 (o mathematica) in it... may be, the next HP49G will come with a crusoe chip :) oh yeah, and running linux too BTW: HP49G still rules!!!!!!!!! \when you take the thought of others, reality becomes ready made\ O. y Gasset charset=\iso-8859-1\ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142438 to I can easily fit a HP49G in the pocket inside my jacket. be And it'll be cheap quality too. Fold lines destroy cables. Duracell AA MN1500 are 2450 mAh, so two months on two of these will allow your device to use 116 mW @ 5 volts (\continous use\; 106 hours a month). Built-in Lithium Ion will be better though, both for the environment and \ for your wallet. power It'll have to be a little larger, so you won't have to use a magnifying glass to see on it. Else you could use a video camera display - 2\ & maybe 400x300 pixels. Regards Steen charset=\iso-8859-1\ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142439 Yes, but with fewer mAh's than NiCd. Lithium Ion does have more advantages too. Regards Steen Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142454 Hi, news:8ZfG7.67$TW2.27746@news010.worldonline.dk... You seem to have big pockets;-) A 15C or 42S has the maximum weight I want to carry, aside from their nicer form factor. result Maybe. But the 28 (Clamshell) series use kind of flip where only a minimum of torsion happens to the contact stripe. Never heard of an 28 with bad left-hand keyboard;-) Hmm...do we end up with kinda Turbo-28SX? Regards, Raymond Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142458 The weather in Oz is to good to be wearing jackets. Even in winter only wear them on bad days. :) I want something for a shirt pocket, HP49 is to big. Be thankfull I \ haven't asked for a Calc suitable for the back pocket of pants when wearing a T-shirt, flexible so you can sit on it. I'm looking for a convenient advaced calculator not a PDA with calculator functions. news:8ZfG7.67$TW2.27746@news010.worldonline.dk... are result for Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142459 1. I want a calculator that executes internal instructions as fact as compiled code on a Pentium III and executed user programs at least as fast ab VB p-code. 2. I want the calculator to be able to be programmed with languages from: HP-67 HP-41 HP-48 HP-49 and VB i.e. backward compatible calculator. 3. It needs to hold at least 1 gig of ram and be able to be attached to a portable IDE hard drive and a CD-ROM 4. 256 color screen, minimum res 1024x768 5. Intelligent, LCD augmented keyboard. 6. Open source OS 7. Runs 10 hours without back lite on. 8. The size of an HP-49 when closed but opens book style like an HP-28S 9. Has parallel, serial and USB ports and syncs to PCs, Macs and Linux boxes. 10. High quality parts, like the keyboard switches on my HP 67. 11. Flashable ROM and running an upgradable hardware chip. 12. 6 AA lithium batteries or rechargable nickle metal hydrid batteries as used in the RC plane world. All other features are open to negotiation. :-) Jim Klein Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142460 -- Thierry Morissette tmorissette@hotmail.com r2ujut8do3175i6v3ps77jbbgdvscjmuue@4ax.com... Good start, but can it be done? I would be satisfied with a 41/49 combination. There are 41 functionalities that SHOULD be implemented (stopwatch, ASCII files, and then some). This is beginning to sound more and more like an HP-41 with HP-IL ... Why the color? I'm still trying to think of an use for color on a \ calculator (Maybe negative numbers in red?) Could you elaborate (a little drawing wouldn't hurt)? Dangerous! This might mean a different calc for everybody, and we might not be able to share programs. 1 gig or RAM, 256 colors, minimum 1024*768, as fast as a Pentium III, and lasting 10 hours with the backlight on? The calc may be portable, but the battery sure won't! OK ... I believe you can have 8. or 9., but not both! I'm with you on that one! That too! How about both, just like the 41? Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142476 You mean that the 48/49 don't have ASCII files capabilities? Is it better for you to manually set pointers and get records instead of just using a string? (Which can be used as an ascii file much easier?) HP-IL is OK, but I don't mind if it is USB or something else. I think it is the availability of many devices that makes HP-IL so attractive. What if we had USB or simple serial devices? Nop! Graph many curves with different colors. Very good when graphing 10 curves simoultaneously. He he, so we would be asked if we have a driving licence for a track, when we want to buy the next calc. ;-) Yummy, yummy :-) Sign me on the club !!! Yeah! Greetings, Nick. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142481 Sorry, I meant to say 10 hours with the back lite \off\ :-) Jim Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142484 Acme Optics wrote: Are YOU the guys who sold that giant magnifying glass to the coyote once? =) -- .-. .-. .---. .---. .-..-. | Wild Open Source Inc. `----'`-^-'`-'`-'`-'`-' `-' | little more commonplace.\ home: www.smith-house.org | work: www.wildopensource.com Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142487 We're still selling them. Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142497 -- Thierry Morissette tmorissette@hotmail.com news: cd9ca36b.0111080547.3af586db@posting.google.com... news: functionalities It has ASCII capabilities, and it would be possible (and has probably been done many times) to emulate the 41 behaviour in that matter. But why not as a part of the OS? I had, in that glorious time, created a small program \ (120 BYTES) to print a justified list of names and phone numbers that I could distribute to members of my congregation. They loved to have it in such a small, practical size, and I did not have to justify each line: the program did it itself, and it was FAST! For that kind of simple record-keeping (it was not my only use of it, just the most useful of all), the 41 was number one! Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com comp.sys.hp48:142501 I usually carry mine in my left-forward pants pocket, upside-down so to lessen exposure of the serial socket -- this works in every pair of pants that I own, including my NJROTC uniform. I don't think I'm large enough to make effects here =) This porting of the calculator seems to work well; I take it everywhere without problems. (snip my snide remark about easily-broken screens. sorry)