A40 ==== Do you want to print the variable names as well as the contents? Are the variables already stored in the order that you want them printed? You could transfer everything to a PC and print from there. If you have a serial printer with the appropriate connector or adapter, then you should be able to print directly to it. If you have a 48 series calculator and an HP 82240 printer, you can transfer the information to the 48 and use that to print to the 82240. But note that ZINTS (exact integers) can't be sent to the 48 as is; use the ->STR command to change them to character strings first. == When setting up the window for plotting trig functions, I'm used to being able to use '2pi', 'pi', 'pi/2', and pi/4' as values for the h-axis and tick marks. Can I do something similar on my 49 rather than entering 6.28, 3.14, 1.57, etc.... ==== You can type 2 pi * ->NUM (if you hit ENTER instead of ->NUM, it won't work). Alternatively, press NXT CALC, compute whatever you want, and hit OK. ==== You could use MATCH^ and/or MATCHv to solve these kind of problems. A good example is found at hpcalc.org site: 49G Programs Programming Misc ==== Lol, actually phasor domain problems are used in the study of circuits with AC sources, by switching over to complex numbers and using eulers identity 2nd order differential equations can be removed. I am sort of annoyed: I need to use complex number And I figure out how to enter them and do most manipulations on them. but the checklist of features specifically over at hp.com says that it can do rectangular <-> polar conversions so I look through the documentation and can not find it anywhere. So I do a google search and all i get is copies of that feature checklist at various retail sites. And then I read the complex marathon, whick says to use the hp48 mode menu- a feature implimented into the 49g in the last rom release. I could use the angle and magnitude commands, but those are awkward compared to a simple >polar on my 89. Am I missing something? or is the feature checklist bragging about features only implimented in the latest unoficial rom? ==== I know that there is a company in the Nintendo gameboy scene, that produces kits to add backlight to the gameboy. The company is called monopoly and the kits should be the best starting point. The kit does use more than only white LED's, they also use a sheet of plastic as a light conductor. The screens look good, so maybe it's a nice idea... http://www.portablemonopoly.com/ ==== With www.hpcalc.org's bandwidth problems, could we create a new usenet newsgroup like alt.binaries.hp48 which would allow people to upload their programs and documentation and stuff without any individual having to pay the bill? This way, we wouldn't have to worry about outages like this. ==== it already exists for a long time;-) It's called comp.sources.hp48. ==== Keep patient, you don't have to wait much longer. The mirror is almost done and it wouldn't surprise me if it works in the coming week. ==== I received a message in January saying that comp.source.HP48 was being discontinued at the end of the month. Perhaps this was only on AOL? I never really saw much posted there anyway, but now I don't even see the FAQ posted periodically ==== You might have had a mal-formed object in the directory you tried to purge. Try using XPURGE on that directory and see if it does the same thing. -- Does someone know how do I find tecnical docs about chip-8 or chip-48? ==== hp48sx ... I would like to beg or borrow some sample program code (or ideas) that would take an integer value from 0 to 100 as stored in a variable to be displayed on a Y-axis, with real time displayed on the X-axis. This is for a personal data acquistion project (I'm trying to graph air temperature) on my hp48sx. I have the program working to capture the data just fine, but need to come up with a few ideas to actually display it graphically. Would any of you fine folks be able to contribute some ideas? ==== When I try to evaluate certain integrals (definite or indefinite) using my HP49, it does nothing except add a t to every X. i.e., intvx(sqrt(1+cos(X)^2)) returns the result int(sqrt(1+cos(Xt)^2),Xt,X) Is this just because the integrals are not evaluable, or is it because of some flaw in the HP's algorithm? ... ==== i get this in maple: -(-(1+cos(x)^2)*(-1+cos(x)^2))^(1/2)*(1-cos(x)^2)^(1/2)*EllipticE(cos(x),I)/ (-cos(x)^4+1)^(1/2)/sin(x) after simplifying i get: -(1-cos(x)^2)^(1/2)*EllipticE(cos(x),I)/sin(x) that is a tough cookie to chew :) ==== No, it's not a flaw. The result requires a special function (an elliptic function, actually) to be expressed, and these calculators do not support symbolic integration in terms of special functions. ==== The integral sqrt(1+cos(X)^2) is not able to be integrated even by advanced software package such as Mathematica or Maple. Thus I conclude that there is no simple solution. m... ==== ... The mathcad 2001 returns the same input value... ==== And Mathematica is another. Which is best is religion, and in my eyes depend on application. Mathcad is a toy, compared with the two others, but is good if your math is straight and you need a good looking document. So it's not real, then! As usual, confusion abounds when terminology is just thrown around, without quite having a meaning, only sounding as if it does, but then slipping away like the Cheshire cat, leaving only a smile. I have no idea what Wolfram takes number to mean, then, but in my own head (not necessarily agreeing with anyone else), I used to consider numbers to mean whatever class of things (loose terminology again :) satisfies the axioms of arithmetic (e.g. if a+b=a+c then b=c), which infinity (as 'a') doesn't. Perhaps it's parallel to that IEEE definition, which defines a *specific* value to be returned by a floating-point *arithmetic* unit to mean not a number (NaN), but still within the domain of a collection of 64 bits (or whatever the register size), so that it appears to be a *number* that is *not* a number! Russell never nailed it all down, either, and some math folks say that his PM is considered, well, *not* considered, any more. But I heard a story about Russell, which is that at some gathering, someone said to him that (s)he'd never before met anyone who had written a book, to which Russell replied that he'd got to the same age before he'd ever met anyone who hadn't! Mathematics possesses not only truth, but supreme beauty http://www-white.media.mit.edu/~cchao/JavaCode/cat.gif http://www.pku.edu.cn/study/libra/story06.htm http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean/carroll/nursery/chapter09.html [and Dodgson/Carroll, of course, was a mathematician, too!] http://www.lewiscarroll.org/logic.html In 1876, Lewis Carroll proposed a voting system in which the winner is the candidate who with the fewest changes in voters' preferences beats all other candidates in pairwise majority-rule elections http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/hemaspaandra97exact.html ==== In an Exel spreadsheet chart, when you add a trendline to a batch of data points, you have the choice of forcing the trendline to go through the origin (0,0). This is pretty common practice during the Physics class I am taking. I'm wondering if I could do the same thing with my HP-48GX? Would be handy to be able to input to the HP right in the lab and have the correct else, if someone could lead me to an algorithm, I'll write my own subroutine. ==== extra info :) overwhelming number of inquiries, we have been unable to get back to many of you individually. We wanted to let you know that we have now posted the answers to some of the most common questions on our web site, . Product specifications, further information and pictures suitable for publication are also posted there. We are currently demonstrating the product, most recently at the CeBIT tradeshow in Germany. The eightythree is not yet in mass production, and is not currently available for purchase. However, we are doing everything possible here at Tiqit to make the eightythree available for purchase by the fourth quarter of 2002. The price has not yet been set, but it will be 4 ==== Most folks append comments only to the end of a line of UserRPL, but you can actually insert comments anywhere in a line, e.g.: << VARS SORT @ How's the weather, Frank? @ ORDER >> When you compile the above, you get << VARS SORT ORDER >> Except within quoted strings, the character @ *toggles* comments on/off in the UserRPL compiler, and the end of a line also turns comments off. Rambling on: Quoted strings may contain any embedded symbols and characters (even nulls), except for the unescaped quote character; for strings containing the quote character, the decompiler generates the alternative counted string syntax [C$ nnn string] in the HP48, which is understood by all HP48/49 compilers, while the 49G generates embedded (which is not backward-compatible with the HP48). In the HP48, << SWAP INPUT >> can be used to more easily edit quote-containing strings (or the source text of programs containing such monsters), while EDITB does the same on the 49G. But don't quote me on all this :) I have a program that outputs text using CLLCD, DISP and FREEZE. I want text that is right aligned. At the moment I am using a DO UNTIL END loop to add before the string until the total SIZE of the string is 22. (22 is the width with system font size 6) What else can I do? That loop takes way too long to do the task. Is there a way to right align text? Or maybe another output method that I can do this with? It does not work for the DISP command. Unfortunately. If you can measure the SIZE of the String, can't you create a string of (22-Size) spaces, then concatenate the two strings?. At least then you lose the overhead of the loop! I don't know of a direct right align command for DISP. HTH anyway ==== Yes, the power of cooperation and civilization is not extremely manifest in 2-year-olds, and frequently enough this never changes. Were it not that one person's ownership is another's non-ownership, and one person's freedom frequently impinges upon another's freedom, it would all be perfectly clear and simple, but like it or not, there is overlap and conflict, and no man can be an island unto himself; thus we need society, and either too much or too little of both individuality and commonality spoils the feast which life could be, if only its many and varied ingredients were more skillfully combined and blended. Mathematics recognizes that certain problems can never be solved within the system, and neither can life's aspirations and conflicts be solved within any system which considers or experiences only the material aspects of existence, which is basically what fuels every side of these arguments between various theoretical systems of society. Certainly there have been both happy and miserable kingdoms, and both happy and miserable communes, in every size from a small company (or even one family) to a large nation, so these gross characteristics are not what counts. We say that it is fullness of consciousness which counts; it is what, in perfect health, orchestrates the masses of individual cells and separate organs of the body into a system where they each perform their separate functions, at the same time that they they all work completely together, holistically, to promote the mutual health and evolution of both every single cell and the entire organism, which are absolutely interdependent on all levels. It would be impossible to consciously evaluate and direct the billions of individual cellular decisions and actions which keep our biological parts working, but some intelligence or life force does it spontaneously; in fact, it is *only* if we maintain the spontaneity of most of these processes, guided by internal natural intelligence, rather than try to individually dictate them, that we can keep living, so if at all possible, we should want to develop this inner intelligence to its fullest possible extent. Throwing together a pile of bricks doesn't build a house; it takes an architect to design and arrange the parts well, from a higher level of consciousness; neither can individuals build a supportive society without contacting a master architect, a higher than strictly individual level of coordinating intelligence. Yet there exist many different satisfactory designs which work; it doesn't have to be all one style, for all different places and climates, geographies, cultures, environments or individual personalities; ideally, each house suits the consciousness of its occupants, as each family, neighborhood, region or nation should suit the corresponding level of consciousness of its occupants, which is a blend of many factors. There is available a master chef or master architect or master intelligence which can relate and structure individualities into beautiful feasts, beautiful homes and communities, and completely healthy and happy individuals, families, communities, and whole ecosystems; it is the same force, pure intelligence or pure awareness, from a common source, which keeps us all alive, even though we each have our own sense that we are separate from one another, our own individual centers of consciousness, like islands sticking out of a common sea, joined invisibly at their base, a global mass of Siamese twins who don't experience their deep connectedness, and thus don't act for global good, both mutual and individual. of the whole story, and that's so; communists and capitalists, leftists and rightists, science and religion, each cling in ignorance to their own side of the story and clash in battle, foregoing and destroying the Garden of Eden which they could have been perpetuating. Until all levels of the unifying field of consciousness become enlivened in each of us, we do not individually effervesce with glowing creativity, health and happiness from within, and we do not make a coherent and beautiful symphony out of all our individual performances as members of whole families, whole communities, whole nations, and a whole world. If we are conscious, we have that well of unlimited intelligence within us, and we can both live it in personal experience and spread it to others; we need only learn how to be still, how to settle the ocean in which we are all islands, to experience below the surface, to that source where we are all joined; the rest is spontaneous. ==== Saw this program: | << IFERR NEG THEN neg END >> My perennial sermon: IFERR depends on flag -55 (Last Arguments) If you assume that arguments of the erroring command will be returned to the stack, you may wish to be sure that flag -55 is clear, if you want a rigorously correct program; in any case, IFERR acts differently for each state of flag -55 Otherwise YMMV when flags status is uncertain, as in HP's own APLY sample program for the 48G, which evidences a bug if flag -55 is set (in addition to not being well written for the 48G). I have my own question about IFERR: What happens upon an error in a no-argument command like VARS? (e.g. Insufficient Memory). LASTARG would return the arg(s) of some *previous* command; does IFERR know not to return any arg(s) at all? HPhreacker 2002 (posting from Berlin, with lang. set to Portuguese?) can't seem to get anything working, except us :) Which is odd, considering his/her experience with all of 48SX, 48GX, PCT, INT48pro, and 49G :) This is a working solution: :: NULLHXS OVER LENHXS EXPAND CODE GOSBVL PopASavptr R0=A.A A+10.A R2=A.A A=DAT1.A A+5.A D1=A C=DAT1.A A+C.A A-1.A D1=A C-7.A R1=C.A RSTK=C { C=R1.A P=C.0 CSR.A RSTK=C A=R2.A D0=A A=0.W C=DAT0.WP C+C.WP SKIPNC { A+1.B } D=C.WP B=A.B A+A.B C+C.WP SKIPNC { A+1.B } A+A.B C+C.WP SKIPNC { A+1.B } A+B.B D+C.WP SKIPNC { A+1.B } C=0.WP D1-1 C=DAT1.1 C+D.WP SKIPNC { A+1.B } DAT0=C.WP CD0EX C+P+1 CD0EX P=0 { R4=A.W C=RSTK C-1.A RSTK=C EXITC C=DAT0.W ?C#0.W -> .cont ?A=0.W EXIT *.cont A=0.W C+C.W SKIPNC { A+1.B } D=C.W B=A.W A+A.B C+C.W SKIPNC { A+1.B } A+A.B C+C.W SKIPNC { A+1.B } B+A.B C+D.W SKIPNC { B+1.B } A=R4.W C+A.W SKIPNC { B+1.B } DAT0=C.W D0+16 A=B.W UP } C=RSTK C=RSTK C-1.A EXITC RSTK=C UP } GOVLNG GPOverWrR0Lp ENDCODE ; @ Note that the generated HXS will be too long (actually the same length as the ZINT was). If these extra zeros are a problem, I'll have to change it a bit. Do you also need a program for the other way round, HXS->ZINT? It might be easier and/or faster to change the algorithm to work with decimal data... AFAIK you cannot create a HXS longer than 16 nibbles with normal UserRPL anyway (with library 256 you can). : ==== I heard David J. Smith discussing the so called Planet X. Seems it was detected in 2000 by observing a slight wobble or distortion in the orbits of Pluto, Neptune and Jupiter, but it was not seen. First time seen was supposedly May 2001 and was named 2001 KX76 - so for research you may want to look that up. He has two audio tapes of his messages that he will sell for $18. If you have Visa or MC you can call 1-800-516-8736 for those tapes. He referenced the Dec. 31 - Jan 7, 2002 available. Check with your librarian! Bro. Stair is the one I heard, at least twice, telling of the earth's poles shifting 90 degrees in an hour and average wind speeds of 200 MPH. He was probably reading from someone else's material but I didn't hear him give credit - he seldom does. Chances are folks send him stuff fact that a 90 degree shift would involve over 6000 miles and probably involve 10,000 mph winds if it happened in an hour -- allowing for acceleration and deceleration times. He didn't respond, but I didn't send a offering either. There is something out there but the effects on the earth, if any, are yet to be determined. It was declared to be a planet and was given its 2001 KX76 name about May 2001 or shortly thereafter. I have not seen it - just passing along info! ...But we all might by sometimes next year. ;-) Al -- All I know is what I read in the paper! Will Rogers, OK, who had an airport named after him. ==== This week's 11x14 $10 photo special is the Hubble Saturn image. Printed from a 24 megabyte source file. See other great images from earth-based and space-based observatory archives at http://www.skyimagelab.com. Available as a hi-res photographic image, matted, or framed. And...just added. Space and Astronomy Stamps. We will soon send out a catalog. Be sure to request one while visiting us. alt.astronomy,sci.astro.amateur,uk.sci.astronomy -- Sky Image Lab Saratoga, CA 95070 +1 (408) 741-5577 http://www.skyimagelab.com ==== they're what you call it when a really stupid idiot (like this guy) understands things in a way smart people don't - yet. Like the blind being able to see, something like that. Yes, the blind can see. ==== Is Planck space different than macro space? Is macro space different ==== On 3 Feb 2002 13:42:18 -0800, michlou@netzero.net (ThunderTroll) Please ,Please stop LOL .. sorry I can not stop laughing .. news Flash TT One of my most Favorite WINTER constellatioins when I was a boy was Orion and gee I lived in Northern Hemisphere... and that was oh 30 Plus years ago. I guess I must have been mistaken where I was huh? or I was seeing things, yes that is it I was halucinating . LOL I swear some people do not have a clue .. actually when ya think about it its pretty sad. ==== On 16 Feb 2002 00:49:15 -0000, Astro Nomikon SPAMMED in the hopes of attracting gullible and foolish people to gather round his cell and toss money his way...... Beginner's Reference: FOR THE TRULY GULLIBLE WHO BELIEVE WHAT I POST AND SPAM FORTH IN A CONSTANT BARRAGE.... SO THERE IS NO CHANCE FOR ERROR and THUS IT LOOKS AS IF I ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT IS BEING DONE ==== Still nothing but a bunch of bull shit. Totaly 100% Useless. -- 2,500,000 tons of steel, spining all alone in the Dark ... The Place is Babylon 5 www.starlords.org ==== On 15 Feb 2002 11:55:25 -0800, thorsdayus@yahoo.com KINDLY DOCUMENT your assertion that Hawking is a plagiarizer. Kindly provide specifics. As for your comments about the asteroids, please indicate where you published anything relevant about such. Kindly document. ---Mac ==== Why don't you try Cartes du Ciel, or in English, Sky Charts 2.71 I have found it pretty easy to use, accurate and, being freeware, downright inexpensive! It seems to have all the bells and whistles that I hear the other programs have. ==== Depends what you want to use it for. If you're after a charting program with an intergrated logbook I would go for SkyMap Pro, on the other hand if you want to do 'arm chair astronomy' via a planetarium program then get Starry Night. ==== Exactly. It's not a choice, because you are comparing two fine programs used for different purposes. Apples and oranges. But if you want to compare charting programs look for the free ones, too, such as Cartes du In message , Rob Pollard -- ==== Another free virtual planetarium : http://winstars.free.fr/english Franck vItb8.4206$a17.27321444@newsserver.ip.pt... ==== Oh, yes!! See if AGENT can use what you are coming up with. Definitely interested. ---Mac ****************************************** ==== Another set of references to the original measurements made by the USNO http://ad.usno.navy.mil/pub/pub_astpapers.html Astronomical Papers Prepared For The Use Of The American Ephemeris And Nautical Almanac. Published By The Nautical Almanac Office, U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, D.C. V.1 No.3 1882 Michelson, Albert A. Experimental Determination Of The Velocity Of Light Made At The United States Naval Academy, Annapolis. V,2 No.3 1891 Newcomb, Simon Measures Of The Velocity Of Light Made Under The Direction Of The Secretary Of The Navy During The Years 1880 - 1882. V.2 No.4 1891 Michelson, Albert A. Supplementary Measures Of The Velocities Of White And Colored Light In Air, Water, And Carbon Disulphide, Made With The Aid Of The Bache Fund Of The National Academy Of Sciences. See also http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~avery/course/3400/f2001/lectures/velocitylight.pdf Len ==== Yeah, it's frustrating finding scientific papers online. However, a search for the title at www.google.com easily found it. http://www.setterfield.org/report/report.html Now how can you be sure it was peer reviewed? And for anyone wondering about the author's credentials and motives see: A BRIEF BIOGRAPHY http://www.setterfield.org/bio.html Here is a vigorous rebuttal: The Decay of c-decay http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/c-decay.html -- Steve Tyler ==== These are all from the *19th* century. Measurement technology has improved considerably in the last 100 years. Scientists now have available many new technologies, including: *lasers* *atomic clocks* *satellites* *computers* BTW, the length of the meter is now *defined* in terms of the speed of light. http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/current.html -- Steve Tyler ==== If Min would just stick to one posting name so he would stay neatly in a killfile, nobody would care. As it is, his stars impel him to great pain and a long period of inactivity as all his broken fingers heal. -- http://home.teleport.com/~larryc ==== ********************* You are not being completely truthful. The problem with Daniel Joseph Min (well, just one of the problems) is that he lacks the courtesy to use just one set parameter so that many who consider his postings to be rude, inappropriate for a specific Newsgroup, etc., etc., can simply kill-file him and not be bothered and not impose upon others who might wish to read him. HOWEVER, this Daniel Joseph Min lacks consideration and courtesy and is impelled to force himself upon others and to astrology have also inquired for customers. As others have no doubt indicated, if Daniel Joseph Min had any degree of courtesy or any responsibility he would not have violated so many ISP and now be compelled to hide behind ReMailer systems so he can continue spamming. If he had any integrity he would use one set name, etc., rather than mutating his name several times per day to post anywhere up to a dozen posts per be ignored by many... and that, to this creature calling itself Daniel Joseph Min is the crux of the matter. ---Mac ==== Wrong totaly 100% wrong. The moon is moving away from the Earth. And the Earth has not changed, sometime in the far future it Might move outward, but that's not even a sure thing at this time. -- 2,500,000 tons of steel, spining all alone in the Dark ... The Place is Babylon 5 www.starlords.org following factors: the moon moves away from the earth - how big is this effect ? changing with helium? get ==== UK Home Secretary David Blunkett has urged people from ethnic minorities to develop what he calls a sense of belonging in Britain. In a newspaper interview, he says racism is often deep-seated and must be confronted, but immigrants who settle here must do their bit to ensure that future generations grow up feeling British. ############################### We have some hope here, first of all its multiculturalism, now feel British, now did not Blair say there was no British as such. Moslems have no intention of integrating, unless we integrate with them in our own land.the Bastards. Blunkett's really on another planet the sop to the conscience of the Nulab softies, is out of his depth he spouts platitudes, with no real conviction, then one as difficulty in believing a blind man we rely on seeing peoples eyes to reinforce honesty and confidence in the person we are listening to. I think Blairs scam in using Blunkett for the sympathy vote is back firing, the man cannot be and is not up to the task, then no is Blair for that matter. ==== Correct Newsgroup? to that British, conviction, firing, --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). ==== We have some hope here, first of all its multiculturalism, now feel British, conviction, ==== Most literally, 2300 contiguous solar days from the death and passion of Jesus-Christ is Julian 1732495 + 2300 = JD 1734795 which is 10 Av 3797 and Sunday 11-Aug-37 AD. This is M. Nostradamus' 3797 by diurnal count, i.e. the primum mobile, tenth heaven, Earth counting by evening-morning. Most literally, 2300 contiguous tropical years from the death and passion of Jesus-Christ, is Julian Day 2572551, 14 Nisan 6091, 22-Apr-2331. This is the mobile, ninth heaven of autumnal & vernal equinox-times (Neptune reigns) counting times evening-morning in the common calendar; evening fall & winter, morning spring & summer. That's 329 years to go counting from this year, 2002 AD, indicating the outermost extent, most gradual end to this transition from the fourth to the fifth empire, much sooner is the rubble. In other words, before Wednesday April 22 2331, the fourth empire will be completely forgotten, utterly consumed, & that's not so long to wait, barely three or four incarnated lifetimes left before the ledger is balanced & the golden age of Saturn by Jupiter reigns for the 1000 years until Shaitan is unchained again in due season. et dixit ei usque ad vesperam and said he all the way until evening et mane duo milia trecenti et and morning two thousand three hundred and mundabitur sanctuarium... will be cleansed the sanctuary... et visio vespere et mane quae and vision of evening and morning which dicta est vera est tu ergo signa is told is verily to be, you therefore seal up visionem quia post dies multos erit the vision, because afterwards days many shall be --interlinear translation by Daniel Joseph Min Below are some excerpts from Young's literal translation of Daniel 8, which is available with all bible books, and translations, on http://www.onlinebible.net/downloads.html 10 yea, it exerteth unto the host of the heavens, and causeth to fall to the earth of the host, and of the stars, and trampleth them down. 11 And unto the prince of the host it exerteth itself, and by it taken away hath been the continual sacrifice, and thrown down the base of his sanctuary. 12 And the host is given up, with the continual sacrifice, through transgression, and it throweth down truth to the earth, and it hath worked, and prospered. 13 'And I hear a certain holy one speaking, and a certain holy one saith to the wonderful numberer who is speaking: Till when is the vision of the continual sacrifice, and of the transgression, an astonishment, to make both sanctuary and host a treading down? 14 And he saith unto me, Till evening-morning two thousand and three hundred, then is the holy place declared right.... 24 and his power hath been mighty, and not by his own power; and wonderful things he destroyeth, and he hath prospered, and wrought, and destroyed mighty ones, and the people of the Holy Ones. 25 'And by his understanding he hath also caused deceit to prosper in his hand, and in his heart he exerteth himself, and by ease he destroyeth many; and against the prince of princes he standeth--and without hand he is broken. 26 And the appearance of the evening and of the morning, that is told, is true; and thou, hide thou the vision, for it is after many days.'--YLT iQA/AwUBPG7WLJljD7YrHM/nEQKNTQCfTdAeOmjK8GiqkKTahULV6OZQpS4AoLol G0FTEnWg1LM6W+EiGgThwSqW =J9OI Astro-Charts Homepage: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=23XT09HB37303.0758680556@frog.gilgamesh .org ==== I seem to remember reading somewhere that fast scopes (F4-F6 etc.) are better for planetary viewing while long scopes (F10-F11 etc) are better for deep-sky observing. Is this true? If so why would this make a difference?? ==== That's exactly backwards. Fast scopes for deepsky, long Focal length for planetary. Fast scopes form a smaller/brighter image good for dim extended objects. Longer fl means larger dimmer images (same diameter objective) which is best for small bright objects like planets. -- David Staup Arlington TX http://flashpages.prodigy.net/dstaup/home1/Page_1x.html ==== In message <3C6FFDD9.743FB1A7@flash.net>, David Staup And it isn't even that simple. If you want to look for planetary nebulae (which are usually very small) you're going to use fairly high magnification. ==== : : I seem to remember reading somewhere that fast scopes (F4-F6 etc.) are : better for planetary viewing while long scopes (F10-F11 etc) are better for : deep-sky observing. Is this true? If so why would this make a difference?? Actually, the longer focal length would be better for all viewing, _IF_ only the tube weren't there. So short focal lengths give a much wider field, which iswhat you want for stars. You can't resolve the disk of a star anyway, and the aperture of the primary mirror determines the light collecting. Newtonians without tubes have been made, and off-axis scopes have a use too, but unless you have a permanent observatory, these are not a good idea. Joe Fischer -- 3 ==== On 3 Feb 2002 04:02:38 -0800, michlou@netzero.net (ThunderTroll) I swear he is pretty funny guy the next thing ya know he will say the earth is flat and that we stay on the surface of the earth cause it sucks ROTFLMAO ==== He choses to be one. ==== On 16 Feb 2002 20:37:55 -0000, Astro Nomik **************************** And that, after all, tells one quite a bit about the creature calling itself Daniel Joseph Min. He is one of the few who deliberately choses to be such a scumbag. Amazing. ---Mac ==== A few weeks ago JudyM posted a Betelguese/Orion teaching program on how to locate stars from Orion's belt. Would someone please post the link to this excellent program for beginner's again. TIA Jim ==== Anyone else recently downloaded the Meade Pictor 7.14 software only to find the Auto Focus option has gone!!! Anyone who can point me in the direction of this very useful option would be apreciated. Mark LT ==== On Sun, 3 Feb 2002 16:01:40 +1000, A. Owen The sunlight reflected from the surface of the moon was quite bright besides try and take a picture of the stars at night from earth .. It requires fast film and a very long shutter openeing to get any usable light to expose the film. Stars are no bright .. Another thing you can do is go out your door and look up to see some stars ... next turn on an outside light or shine a light into your eyes from the side . viola no stars . ==== I have always been interested in astronomy and I have a long term goal to set up my ideal setup which is as follows: by PC software and have the image that comes from the scope displayed on my PC screen. SO in essence I can browse the stars/moon while sitting at my pc (on the cold nights we have here in the UK) As I am a total newbie to all of this, is my 'dream' possible and if so what would I need (just the telescope side of things not the pc). Any advice / recommendations appreciated Zed ==== Does the skylight window open? If not, most of what you'll see is going to be either fuzzy, stretched or distorted in some way. You'd be better off replacing the skylight with one that can be opened most of the way. There are a number of good links which others will most likely post here in record time, to direct you to how to choose a telescope. It all really depends on what you want to look at, and how much light pollution you have to deal with, where you live. If it were my place to remodel, I'd remove the skylight, place an elevated or suspended chair that rotates and slap a rotating dome on that roof . Easy! Oh, and the scope of choice would be a 12 LX200 Meade... but I'm a dreamer... -- Gil eyes to the sky Tennant 43Á 32.348' N / 78Á 34.867' W (Ontario, Canada) astronut@rogers.com to controlled on my my pc so what advice / ==== Starting to look at this interesting subject and would like to know more about the telescopes themselves. What are the advantages/disadvantages between the various types of Scopes i.e. Reflector?Refractor etc. Are there any other types for the amateur. How are magnifications and brightness etc rated particularly how is a Reflector Scopes magnification measured. Any sites or info appreciated. Griff. ==== Generally speaking... With a reflector, you usually get more aperture for your money. Aperture (diameter of the telescope opening) is supremely important - the bigger, the more light you can gather and the more you can see. Refractors will give especially sharp images of planets and moon, but they cost a lot when you get into large aperture. Reflectors usually require periodic alignment (collimation) of the primary and secondary mirrors. Many amateurs choose a newtonian reflector on a dobsonian mount - because it's the cheapest way to get large aperture. Catadioptric telescopes (combination of reflector and refractor) are more expensive than relectors. Their advantage is a compact size - easier to transport. Also give very sharp planetary images. Examples of this kind of scope are Schmidt-Cassegrain and Maksutov-Cassegrain. Usable magnification is a function of focal length and aperture. See here http://www.astronomy.org.nz/journal/1999/oct1999/backtobasics.htm Go to http://telescope.com and read absolutely everything in the Learning Center (top menu) - especially the Equipment Basics section. This site is also a great source for high quality beginner/intermediate telescopes. Choose a reputable brand of telescope. Avoid department store or mall telescopes. Examples of good manufacturers are Celestron, Mead and Orion. An example of a poor manufacturer is 'Tasco'. Good luck& have fun! Jack ==== I've just bought a GX200 and now I'd like to buy a new mount but I'm a little bit undecided among this: GP,GP/DX,EQ5 and EQ6...which do you think fit best with the GX200? ==== On 16 Feb 2002 03:39:06 -0800, thorsdayus@yahoo.com (ThunderTroll) The only reason they came up withe idea is because they can't explain why gravity is so weak. They claim that gravity is spread out across the many universes and all together it is just as strong as the other 3 forces. Hundreds of trillions of other realities is a lot to have to invent just to explain a force that no one really understands anyway. I reckon someone needs to make a sliding machine, huh? ==== And this response proves how determined the mentally handicapped are, to keep everybody else as confused as they are. Unable to understand the simplest things. So they give up, and say the answers are just an invention. Gravity is just a perception of the mind. I wonder if this, is this too hard for them to understand? ==== electron creates a positron at the same time. Nature has mad more universes in pairs than anything else. They are easy to make,and she has infinite room to work with. Like a child I think of this every night before going to sleep. I dream a dream that starts off looking in a mirror.I now know it is not me ,but my parrel universe has every thing almost the same as here on earth. My parrel twin I named Breh,and he is left handed.We came up with a number game that is played like a wegee board.Having lots of problem getting started.It should end up like tick tac toe,but more complicated. If I can make a break through I will ==== Everyone knows that planet x was destroyed long ago. That is where we get our asteroid belt from. (And to those who say there is not enough material to make a planet, in an explosion stuff goes everywhere. Just a small amount would end up in orbit in a belt. The rest would be blasted off into space. ) That is why on most moons and planets in the solar system one side is more heavily cratered than the other. The cratered side was in the path of the debris. I have even heard that Mars was a moon of planet X. The water traces on the surface are from the oceans of planet X being blasted onto it. Mars couldn't hold the water and it sublimed into space. I don't know if Mars was a moon or not, but it makes sense to me. ==== Planets X and Pluto William Graves Hoyt Format: Paperback, 302pp. ISBN: 0816506647 Publisher: University of Arizona Press Unfortunately this is out of print. Hoyt worked at the Lowell Observatory. http://www.lowell.edu/Research/library/paper/wg_hoyt.html -- Steve Tyler ==== This makes almost as much sense as the other Planet X theory. Where in the world do you get this stuff? RM ==== can you please provide a mechanism whereby planets explode? -- Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult: http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down. ==== Jehova's Witness Publication-The Watchtower ==== Are you serious? R ==== An extremely high speed meteor would do it if it was large enough. A large body passing close by could break a planet into pieces like shoemaker levy. We have no way of knowing if a brown dwarf passed through the soloar system hundreds of millions of years ago. If you want to really go out on a limb, planet X could have had intelligent life on it and they made a doomsday machine. I wasn't there, I don't know. I didn't get any of my info from that cult of Jehova witnesses either. I thought it up on my own. Can YOU explain why a great many of the objects in this solar system have many more craters on one side than the other? How could Mars have had so much water if there is nearly none there now? I hear astronomers claim that Mars had a nearly world-wide flood at one time. They poopoo the idea of the same thing happening on Earth yet there is more than enough water to cover the entire planet here now. Where would Mars get that much water only to loose it? Why is there debris where a planet should be? Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter are all at the right place. But between Mars and Jupiter there is no planet where one should be. There is instead debris. No one was here back then so any theory is exactly as valid as the next one. Ookie <3c6dbb13.280411555@news-server.carolina.rr.com> <6unr6u40he6sb0urv07u4mcanrvgm5me7l@4ax.com> <3c6f1fbe.2846854@news-server.carolina.rr.com> ==== In message <3c6f1fbe.2846854@news-server.carolina.rr.com>, Ookie To take your last point first, that's the classic creationist argument and it doesn't hold water. Only theories which fit the facts are valid. Most of your other arguments have been proposed by Tom van Flandern, who probably coined the phrase exploding planet hypothesis (EPH). We do have a way of showing that a brown dwarf has never passed through the solar system - we are still here, and the planets are in stable, more-or-less circular, commensurate orbits. Mars lost its atmosphere and water because it has low gravity and no magnetic field to protect it from the solar wind. ==== I think that's pretty apparent. There are other reasons. Think about what I believe you're suggesting: that the cratered sides all face the direction of the exploded planet (that is what you're suggesting, isn't it?). But all of these planets and moons rotate, presenting their heavily-cratered sides and lightly-cratered sides to every part of the solar system. Besides, this dichotomy is not universal--it is a feature of only some worlds. Why just those and not every body in the solar system? Look it up, for heaven's sake. Astronomers go into considerable detail about the mechanisms by which Mars lost its original water. Why should one be there? Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter are all at the right place. But between Are you perhaps taking Bode's Law a little too literally? Not so. A viable theory still has to work within known mechanisms of planetary science. RM ==== I've used an 80A (not sure if that's a moon filter or not) on Jupiter to heighten the contrast on the GRS and the EBs. I had better contrast in my 8 Sky-Watcher Dob than what I saw in an associate's 16 Dob. The only other filter I have at the moment is a ND4 for light reduction. I pull it out to use on a FULL/BRIGHT moon. Although I prefer the 80A to increase the contrast during other lunar phases. I could see some benefit to using LPR filters in mixed lighting conditions or for specific effects in imaging, but for the most part, too many filters is simply going to spoil the broth . -- Gil eyes to the sky Tennant 43Á 32.348' N / 78Á 34.867' W (Ontario, Canada) astronut@rogers.com able to though. light people there just of ==== Sean, Right you are. Now I remember the owner of the telescope shop who sold me the ND4, and it was that filter that I am suppose to relate moon to... thanks! -- Gil eyes to the sky Tennant 43Á 32.348' N / 78Á 34.867' W (Ontario, Canada) astronut@rogers.com usually neutral all used to certain is wavelength only a ==== If you live in a light polluted area, I would agree that most filters (not all of them) are next to useless. On the other hand, if your skies are dark, the right filters will open new doors. For openers, try an Orion UltraBlock, particularly if you like to view DSOs. Al ==== -- Gil eyes to the sky Tennant 43Á 32.348' N / 78Á 34.867' W (Ontario, Canada) astronut@rogers.com (not are Orion Comments: This message probably did not originate from the above address. ==== Progression is one and global. Transits are to the meridian of longitude where you are standing. For further info, see: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=23XT09HB37303.0758680556@frog.gilgamesh . org iQA/AwUBPG3kNJljD7YrHM/nEQIRnACeNrpKdeArLwbfQJI+s3twDqqc6xIAn2g5 a7yGxePqDZbLj3Tc3fJp/cad =R7he ==== On 4 Feb 2002 16:19:11 -0800, michlou@netzero.net (ThunderTroll) Oh and your theory is ????? Lets see I have heard some of your dribble . it is made up of Luminious green cheese . It is lit by a huge canlde and the man in the moon lights it each night.. It is Radioactive and glows on its own like a watch dial. am I getting close Moron ??? Take a look at it . explain why you can see shadows . in the exact place if it were lit by the sun ? next thing you will say that there is no sun .. that is really a giant flashlight held by a giant that keeps the universe together .. Nope I'm sorry TT , I think you need to go back and live with your relatives at the zoo and leave the rest of us alone .. ==== Michele: What type of lens? A not too sophisticated solution may be to paint out and opaque the scratch with an opaque paint. Artists oil paints such as those sold by Utrecht have high pigment to stand oil ratios and are highly opaque. The principle being that if light cannot get into the scratch the light cannot be refracted to cause image degradation. The remaining open area of the lens would function as before, and there would be only a tiny loss of light gathering power. Use a Russian sable brush that has a good point. Lens makers used to use a type of black lacquer. I cannot say how that may interact with fluoride or germanium lenses. Ralph Hertle .......................... ==== Doug, Maybe it's been pointed out in this thread by now, but Paul Hodge was able to lower himself enough to write for the joke of a magazine in the March 2002 issue. Take a look at the masthead for the Astronomical Journal to learn who he is. stuffed can't get along? Tom -- Tom Polakis Tempe, AZ Arizona Sky Pages http://www.psiaz.com/polakis/ ==== A radio transmission from outer space that indicates a space alien 'police force' is speeding toward Earth at 93,000 miles per second--that's half the speed of light-- in a do--or--die attempt to bring peace to a planet and civilization that hatred has [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace]torn apart! The aliens will use a number of powerful machines to bring about their plan of universal peace. 'They may use mind-alteing devices to eliminate hatred. They may use force fields to protect our cities. And they may even establish a cosmic prison for evildoers.' [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace]S ue http://community.webtv.net/mapa7/SuesNews http://community.webtv.net/mapa7/SuesNews ==== Or maybe they're just interested in the coffee and donuts. ==== Is light slowing down or is the rest of the universe showing its ==== Stuart: I'm not an expert on these matters, and I do suspect an obfuscatory scam that seems markedly similar to the one used by mystic Deconstructionist architects and modern non-objective artists in order to con the customer, and that may be used by some scientists or educators in order to pad the bill or for resume enhancement purposes. I offer these four multiple part questions: 1 Question regarding electromagnetism: What is the stuff in outer space that is electromagnetism? If light, and all EM radiation, is made of photons what is magnetism? How does electromagnetism differ from magnetism? 2 Question regarding light and electromagnetic radiation: With the velocity of light being C at all times, places, respects, and frames of reference, isn't there some sort of a shell game going on in that the axiom of Non-Contradiction is being violated? A velocity must always have a standard dimensional motion as its referent, that is, as a standard of dimensional motion to which the dimensional motion of the observed existent is being compared, and a numerical ratio generated. Which referent is the standard referent for measuring the velocity of light: the emitter, the medium, the photon, or the receiver? It cannot be all four at the same time. Even simple logical arithmetic can tell is that. 3 Question regarding the Doppler effect as applied to the VOL: Is not the measure of time the Earth's angular rotation that is expressed in a numerical ratio to measured travel along a straight line (that is a result of prior standard measurements of the dimensional values of one cc. of water)? That's where we are - on Earth. But the claimed application of the Doppler effect, that is used to justify the Red Shift and even the BB, requires that the velocity of propagation, somewhere in outer space, is the constant frame of reference. In air the motion away of the emitter will produce a lower energy level of propagated waves which in air travel at the VOS. The VOS is always the same in standard air. But then the VOS is not the same with regard to either the emitter or the receiver. Furthermore the standard dimensional motion of some entity must be specified in order to even form the abstract concept of a velocity in some units. A standard reference position must also be stated from which the application of the concept of time may be initiated in order to obtain a specific measurement. Which starting location is used as a standard reference position for use in calculating the VOL? Is not the Doppler Effect inapplicable to the problem of the apparent red shift unless standard time references and referent locations are included in the specification of its proof? 4 Question regarding space: There is, however, nothing in outer space that will support waves of EML. The Doppler Effect in the void of outer space is impossible. Is it not true that there is nothing there through which waves of anything can travel? Therefore, the concept of the application of the Doppler Effect in explaining the apparent red shift is not logically necessary, and is inapplicable. The relationship is merely coincidental, and the proof of the cause of the red shift as a function of the Doppler Effect is merely one of application and not logical and factual necessity. Ralph Hertle ........................................ ==== coin. Both come out of the electrons spinning field.Both share the field equally. If the field is stationary,that is its magnetic moment. If the field is moving that is the electric current. The field is made of photons spinning at C If the field is high in energy it will release a photon,low in energy it will absorbed a photon. All photons leave at C and with the same wave length as received Electron fields can spin clockwise or counter clockwise,and this is what creates their poles and attraction and repulsion. A photon never slows down. It is an illusion created by the photon going a greater distance. It takes light an average 100,000 years to break through the sun's surface after leaving the sun's core,but at no time did it go faster or slower than 'C' A lot of this is my thinking so flame away. ==== Multiple universes aren't so scarey. The explanation is very simple. Existing on different vibrations, is why they can exist in the same place as you, without being felt. They can be tuned into, like different radio stations. And can be heard on radios, that have odd channels. This explains why many people hear about events on the radio, that will draw blank stares from people in this world. One of the most common, is concert events. Or events with a date, that aren't happening in this world, yet. Other worlds exist in future times. Inspirations in this world, are translations of future events. Seeing the future is possible, but it is impossible to tell the exact date that events will happen in this world. It depends on how fast worlds are merged. And how fast worlds are merged depends on every entity. And the event won't happen exactly the same. Always a little different. Very easy to understand so many things now. Ghosts, schizophrenia, psychics. Even multiple personalities. For seperate universes have other you's. That are different people, but the same. And in some universes you are dead. How many have found that strange picture in a drawer, that doesn't seem possible? A picture taken that couldn't have happened. Showing you somewhere you have never been. But were too scared to talk about it. ==== Had an incredible sunrise this morning followed by a beautiful 'ring' around the sun as it peeked through some wispy cirrus clouds. Picture of it here: http://currentsky.com/wx/sun-halo.jpg Clear Skies... Bob Riddle Starwalk, Inc. http://currentsky.com (Lee's Summit, MO) ==== Shame that the picture isn't bigger, that would have made for one of those really special desktop wallpapers that everyone loves looking at. Colin Dawson (Baildon) lat : N53 50 43 long : W01 46 14 news@cdawson.tele2.co.uk around ==== Beautiful! RM ==== Well we know the tallest mountain on Mars is 80,000 feet high,and created by a volcano.We also know Mars is half the size of Earth.What are the best reasons for this? Is the peak of this volcanic cone a way of going back to when Mars was younger? Well gravity force on Mars could be one reason,and not much erosion with such a thin cold atmosphere. Still it is kind of interesting.Venus must have low mountains with that ==== I found the best way was a mixture of 60/40 isopropanol (from the chemist) and surgical cotton whool to apply it. Just dap it, don't rub. Careful with compund lenses, the liquid can seep into the gap. To remove any residue use a spray with distilled water and dab again. (Use the kind of spray bottle used for plants). Seems to work for me. If the lenses are cheap, presumably a bit of rubbing matters not. Jochen -- ------------------------------------------------- Margaret or Jochen Lueg tudor@argonet.co.uk http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/tudor ==== On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:55:18 -0500, Robert-Francois Trudeau I would suggest that you use either a lens pencil or photo lens cleaning solution and tissues. If you mean the 1.5x erector tube, then I would suggest that you don't use it, as it will only make things more unstable. It is really only meant to be used for terrestrial viewing (as the image it produces are the right way up). Using it will degrade the quality of the image, as the light has to pass through even more lenses. I suspect that they are Kellner EPs, 18mm and 9mm, both are usable but don't expect really good images. But then again, the 50mm objective is really only going to offer reasonable views of the Moon (you'll see many of the major features), Jupiter (you may be able to make out the equatorial belts plus its 4 moons) and possibly a very small Saturn, complete with rings (and 1 of its moons). You should be able to make out M42 (in Orion) and see a little of the nebulosity. My 60mm Tasco came with a Kellner 4mm and Huygens 12.5mm EP, a 2.3x Barlow (basically useless with this scope), a 1.5x erector tube (only used for terrestrial use). The 4mm (175x)is almost useless as it takes the optics past their optimum range (125x), the 12.5mm (56x) is more useful. My son now has this scope. I hope this helps a bit? I also started with a Tasco 'cheap' refractor (60mm), but now have got a 250mm (8) F6 Newtonian Reflector, which offers better light gathering and far brighter and sharper images. Martin Overton BTS & ATS Member Arachnophiliac/The Tarantula's Burrow - http://arachnophiliac.com/burrow/home.htm ==== Martin, Omcon is a brand name of Synta (China). They make OTA and eyepieces for Sky-Watcher, among others. You'll also find Omcon Speers Wallers, Erfles, Pl.9assls, Kellners, and ones even lower than that, coming from Synta, under this brand name. Sky Instruments in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada; are the North American importers and distributors of this brand. -- Gil eyes to the sky Tennant 43Á 32.348' N / 78Á 34.867' W (Ontario, Canada) astronut@rogers.com what ==== I guessed that much ;-) Indeed, that is why I thought that they are of Kellner design/construction. I have a similar Tasco scope and one of the EPs supplied was marked K (Kellner) and the other H (Huygens). Martin Overton BTS & ATS Member Arachnophiliac/The Tarantula's Burrow - http://arachnophiliac.com/burrow/home.htm ==== I've seen a number of posts of visiting your local astronomy club for telescope purchase advice. However can you throw so help out for the following. Current state analysis: 1) I am purchasing for my retired father 2) He is not computer literate though is generally quite smart 3) He lives on the coast of Ireland away from cities 4) He has no astronomy experience 5) He wants to gaze upon the stars - just getting the best experience possible 6) Classic tripod, bring a chair experience I assume 7) Automatic help for lining up the telescope would be great (a database of stars) 8) Price range US$ 500 - 1000 I would like to find online sellers, read and understand the specifications. My first 'find' was NexStar 4 and the G8 (http://www.starsafaris.com/selectascope/stpageproduct4.htm). I would like to get some links to other places where I can shop around for products in the same class. thanks! Tim ==== Are you an engineer? ;-) He'll need some astro reference books. I've appended a few titles. The naked eye and binoculars are great tools for gazing upon the stars. Dobs are commonly recommended too. No way! Smart star gazers use star-hopping. :-) But seriously, you can search for usenet threads on GoTo 'scopes at http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search You DO sound like an engineer. :-) Orion (in the US) has a good selection of binoculars and 'scopes. http://www.telescope.com/ See also Phil Harrington's book Star Ware: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pharrington/homepage.htm You don't say where in the world you are! I suggest going to a library or bookstore and Are you planning to send a 'scope or just a gift certificate? -- Steve Tyler === http://www.barnesandnoble.com/ === The National Audubon Society Field Guide to the Night Sky Mark R. Chartrand Wil Tirion A Field Guide to the Stars and Planets Jay M. Pasachoff Wil Tirion Touring the Universe through Binoculars: A Complete Astronomer's Guidebook Phillip S. Harrington Sky Atlas 2000.0 Wil Tirion Roger W. Sinnott Sky Atlas 2000.0 Companion Robert A. Strong Roger W. Sinnott The Cambridge Star Atlas Wil Tirion Norton's Star Atlas and Reference Handbook Ian Ridpath (Editor) Deep-Sky Companion: The Messier Objects Stephen James O'Meara Foreword by David H. Levy Burnham's Celestial Handbook: An Observer's Guide to the Universe beyond the Solar System (3 Volumes) Robert Burnham Herbert A. Luft ==== Software engineer :-) material. I am in Toronto and I thought to ultimately order online but have the telescope delivered to Ireland - though I assume that will cost a bit more. thanks! Tim experience around ==== I'm a newbie, but just taken the plunge into a scope. Hope my comments are useful, abeit not backed up be any experience. OK, forget aboue planitarium software, and concentrate more on books and charts. Besides the Goto scopes cost a small fortune. I'm a computer techie so, can't help here. Nice dark skys, you should be able to see alot more that me. are you sure? He's never looked up before, at night? You'll need a decent tripod then, something of sturdy construction, even the smallest movement of the tripod will have a dramatic effect in the eyepiece. There are goto scopes, it's a little like programming a video recorder. Point the telescope north, level the tube. Then point to a couple more stars and that's it. You'll then be able to call up anything you like from the database. But these will pushup the price of the scope. hmmm, a little low for a goto scope, you should stick to the conventional kind. There are the meade ETX range however. But remember that what you spend on electronics, you can't spend on optics. At the end of the day it's the size of the apperture and the quality of the optics that make the scope worth getting. Simple rule of thumb seems to be don't bother with a scope smaller that about 6. HTH -- Colin Dawson (Baildon) lat : N53 50 43 long : W01 46 14 news@cdawson.tele2.co.uk ==== Don't you believe it! The first thing he needs is some sort of weather machine to drive the clouds away. I live in Northern Ireland and the nights per month with good seeing can be counted on the fingers of one injured hand. Jochen -- ------------------------------------------------- Margaret or Jochen Lueg tudor@argonet.co.uk http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/tudor ==== is there an ez way to setup the mirors in my telescope? tune it for best performance? maybe a web page with instructions? do i just eyeball it? bushnell 4.5 inch 900mm sorry if this is a dumb question and everyone but me knows the answer..... ==== This may or may not be what you are looking, but I figured links from a telescope page would be a good place to start. Therefore, go to http://www.scopereviews.com/ Go all the way to the bottom of the page and hit links. Chances are some of those links will add to other links, etc. I did not check it out -- hey, I got you this far. ;-) Happy hunting. If you find something interesting, pass it along to the rest of us. P.S. Just a thought.... Have you checked with the manufacturer of your equipment to see if they recommend a given procedure? They could even have instructions online. Al -- The truth is hate -- to those who HATE the truth! ==== A great looking links page: http://astronomylinks.com/ Even has an other link directories links page and links on telescope making. Al -- The truth is hate -- to those who HATE the truth! ==== Try this collimation site: http://www.efn.org/~mbartels/tm/collimat.html ==== Fascinating, but how come you and Wally never bothered to respond to my post about Cayce 20 days ago? Rodney ==== A complete fiction. RM ==== On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 21:29:57 -0500, joyce small I don't know, it could be many reasons. I may not have seen it. It may not have had anything that required a response or had anything interesting to say. -- Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult: http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down. ==== lost its nose during the Boar war.It said the British used the sphinx ==== I don't think that dowsing is a con, going from what has been shown about it. I'm sure someone will prove whether there is anything to it. All it takes is someone to examine it under so-called scientific conditions, with a dowser who can work under those conditions - not in a negative way that Randi sets up, but in a neutral way. That program I mentioned, looked at some Tibetan monks who could survive under extreme cold conditions during their meditation - when they were examined in the laboratory and monitored - they weren't performing as they should, but in their normal environment (with a camera crew present) they did what they normally do. Just because something can't be performed in the laboratory, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Harvey wanglese@spbigpondam.net.au says... ==== You keep going on about Randi. Kind of bugs you doesn't it?. Does it occur to you for a single instant that there are skeptic societies all over the world who have tested dowsers, and they ALL FAIL? No, I thought not. You might like to understand that in all cases I've seen, the test is only set up to prevent cheating. Seems no dowsers are able to perform when cheating is eliminated or prevented. and just because you see something on TV, or you have a favourite belief, doesn't make it so. -- Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult: http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down. ==== -- Mixed emotions on pebble. This psychological tendency needs to be eradicated from our species. If they believe they need to take their own lives... we should probably let them. Life is for the living... not the 'waiting and wishing to die'. Hate to see 'good' people go... but these types often evolve into threats against society... demanding that we believe as they do... and quite honestly, we have enough Jean's in the world already. ==== Well, I inadvertently posted it twice so it would have been a little difficult to miss, but it here it is for the third time: Here is my promised reply: > Cayce was a fraud. And it's not Randi that says so. Simple. > > http://www.skepdic.com/cayce.html : Having read both negative (such as this) and plenty of positive on Cayce... : I'm left with one basic conclusion... : Why does anyone take him seriously? He was wrong. Very very often. Many : of his diagnosis cases were so wide-ranging that they HAD to hit on : whatever was causing the problem (and in each case the actual meaning was : rarely discerned until after the actual illness was given later). The case : of his wife's tuberculosis diagnosis is just one of many such examples - if : he even mentions the organs affected, then the bulk of what else he said : (that bears no relation, even to other osteopaths) can be discounted. I'm glad you brought this case up. According to Martin Gardner and Robert Carroll (on http://www.skepdic.com/cayce.html), this is a clear-cut case of Cayce not knowing what he was talking about. But where did they get their information? All of it can be found in the book There Is A River by Thomas Sugrue. Did either do any original research, such as interviewing people who are familiar with the facts of the case? If they had, they might have discovered the following version of events (taken from: http://www.caycegoldengate.com/ec_story1.html ) By late summer, Gertrude's doctor had changed his diagnosis. He called Cayce aside and spoke the awful truth: Gertrude had tuberculosis and was dying. A TB specialist confirmed that nothing further could be done. Everyone expected her to die by the end of the year except her husband. Edgar gave a reading. While in the sleep state, he recommended a combination of prescription drugs as well as filling a charred oak keg with apple brandy. Gertrude was to inhale the fumes to clear up the congestion. Although the doctors claimed that the combination prescription. After following this treatment for only two days, Gertrude was felling better and her fever had fallen. By September she was even better, and by November even her doctors decided she was going to get well. By the first part of January, 1912, Gertrude Cayce was fully recovered. One would think that if the above version of events were false, Gardner, Carroll, or someone else like Randi would have refuted it. Why do you suppose no one has? : Also, for every error of his (and there were quite a few... far more than : his successes) You base that allegation on what? According to his sons' book (The Outer Limits of Edgar Cayce's Power), Cayce's batting average was about 85%. Randi tries to refute this by saying that many of Cayce's failures were probably never reported, but like Gardner and Carroll, he can't be bothered to actually do any research to determine whether his speculation is accurate. : , there was a simple explanation that could of course never be : disproven by it's nature. If the person he diagnosed (for that day) had : been dead for a little while, he was reading the past. If something is not : where is said it will be, then it's something that HAS been there in the : past or WILL be there in the future. Oh, and of course, you have to BELIEVE : in him to be cured... which might explain why the vast majority of people he : attempted cures for didn't get cured - they didn't believe him implicitly. The best evidence is that the vast majority of Cayce's cures worked; see again The Outer Limits of Edgar Cayce's Power. : (note: belief is usually enough in itself - just look at faith healers. : As long as you don't TELL them how it works, it often does work... ditto : placebo's, and one reason why doctors try not to tell you that you'll never : recover from something). So how do you account for cases in which the doctors failed but Cayce succeeded? : Then there's his readings of future events. Where he was vague, people : almost always find something they can tie to within a few years of that : date... it's easy. One experiment I tried was taking a number of his : predictions (namingly, ones people hold as proof) and changed the dates to : random dates within 10 years after the readings. In each case I could find : something to prove that it was right... even after the date was wrong. : (like his mention of a new superweapon - his date of 58 was harder to : reconcile than any of the fake ones I generated). If nothing else, they can : say it happened and was kept secret. But, when he's precise and direct, : he's usually wrong. (China doesn't seem like a christian state to me, three : decades after it hapened). If you believe in free will, forecasting the future is uncertain business even for the best of psychics. But many of Cayce's predictions were, in fact, right on the money. Such as before the stock crash in 1929, when one of his readings categorically told an investor to sell everything, even the box (a high quality stock). Cayce also made investors in Virginia Beach, VA real estate wealthy by accurately forecasting a real estate boom, and he forecast a coming friendship between the US and Russia at a time when relations were at a low point. : I hate simply discounting something... so maybe one of his supporters can : show me the error of my ways. I've just touched the tip of the iceberg above. Almost all of Cayce's readings are available to be viewed at Virginia Beach or can be purchased on CD Rom, and many are available on-line. A number catalog remarkable recoveries from difficult medical conditions. Rodney ==== they One wonders why the monks couldn't stay in their monastery while the scientists observed them there. But I suppose then that all the wires and cameras and observers would STILL prevent the monks from performing as they should. The famous sex researchers, Masters & Johnson, got people to perform SEX while fully wired and watched. Masters and Johnson observed sexual activity in a laboratory setting. They developed tools and techniques for accurately measuring the physical responses of 700 men and women during masturbation and intercourse. http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20011203.html Why can't serene and celibate monks match THAT? Sorry Wally. This started out as a reply to your post, but, as you can see, it ended up as a post about monks and sex. Please forgive me. ;-) -- Steve Tyler Holy Order of the Surrogate Hostess Bless.8fd Be the Wires and the Watchers ==== On Sat, 16 Feb 2002 20:37:59 -0500, joyce small Well it appears the second was the appropriate response. That ius, you had nothing interesting to say. The same reason people used to ring up Miss Cleo. That's One version. Funny thing is, never seen an assessment of Cayce in a scientific journal. I suppose he's not worth the effort. By the way, you can bring up as many positives as you want. Lots of people make whacky predictions, lots of them, in the forlorn hope they will get a hit. Where is Atlantis? Because maybe it's not worth the effort? It happens to be true. Many woo-woos, yourself included tend to ignore the gross errors, in the forlorn assumption that somehow your favourite prophet had something of value to offer. It's quite common in most beleivers in any form of religion. Which is, of course an unbiased, complete picture. riiiigggghhhhttt. I always wonder why these claims are not verifiable (yes, I tried a few years ago) Oh, for jesus sake, give us a break! Prophets ALWAYS predict disasters, stock market crashes, and when these things happen, as they ALWAYS do, (or come close), they claim a hit. What's better, is that they don't actually have to do all the hard work claiming the hit, because they bleating of their followers does all the work for them. Yes, and lots of vague prognostications get made by lots of prophets. Can you think critically for a minute? If you make enough vague guesses, you always get a hit. Jees. I've done it too. The difference is, I know I'm, not a prophet. I love this stuff: Martin Gardner cites Cayce's reading of Cayce's own wife as an example. The woman was suffering from tuberculosis: .... from the head, pains along through the body from the second, fifth and sixth dorsals, and from the first and second lumbar...tie-ups here, floating lesions, or lateral lesions, in the muscular and nerve fibers which supply the lower end of the lung and the diaphragm...in conjunction with the sympathetic nerve of the solar plexus, coming in conjunction with the solar plexus at the end of the stomach.... The fact that Cayce mentions the lung is taken by his followers as evidence of a correct diagnosis; it counts as a psychic hit. But what about the incorrect diagnoses: dorsals, lumbar, floating lesions, solar plexus and stomach? Why aren't those counted as diagnostic misses? And why did Cayce recommend osteopathic treatment for people with tuberculosis, epilepsy and cancer? Which as far as I'm concerned, shows just what a fraud he was. -- Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult: http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down. ==== Monks and sex LOL . :-)) A subject for a thread? -- Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult: http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down. ==== Funny thing is, never seen an assessment of Nostradamus in a scientific journal, either. I suppose it's not 'respectable'. -- Peter ==== But what, exactly, is the source of this story? It's certainly told in an anecdotal manner. Are any of the doctors' records available or quoted? This is a figure given by his sons (not exactly an unbiased source). Where did they get their figure? What is it based on? True--Cayce probably never heard back from any of his patients who died. Well, you keep saying things like this, but your sources hardly seem to me to be unbiasted or clinical. After all, the book you use as your source was written by Cayce's own sons. I haven't seen it: is it as anecdotal as the story about Gertrude? Lots of ways to account for that. For instance, many diseases simply run their course and the patient gets better (after all, much of what conventional doctors do is to simply make their patients comfortable while this happens, and make sure that more serious complications don't develop). Many of these cures may also have been cases of spontaneous remission. Etc. etc. Hardly. RM ==== Since what has been shown about it is that it doesn't work, how can you think it's not a con? No one has yet. On the other hand, every test it has been put to, it has failed. All it takes is someone to examine it under so-called scientific conditions, Don't be silly. The conditions of Randi's tests are agreed to in advance. If the dowser doesn't like them, he or she has every chance to say so before the test even starts. This is an important part of Randi's conditions. What happens (of course) is that, after the fact, the dowser starts whining about the conditions being all wrong or negative vibrations. Right. RM ==== On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:17:46 -0500, Ron Miller As, of course, applies in the case of the conventional doctors, too... -- Peter ==== As I just pointed out. The difference being, however, that most doctors don't try to ascribe these as miracles. RM ==== Let's face it. There're all just playing catch-ups with the Edgar Cayce readings. Once you've admitted that Cayce's readings are the most complete, accurate and reliable records on the prehistoric world, then, and only then, will you begin to appreciate the true extent and veracity of his readings on Atlantis etc. Meanwhile, you'll just continue to mock Edgar Cayce, and the prophets, just as your kind always has. http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=X5EH75IX37258.4504861111@anonymous.post er iQA/AwUBPG8EGZljD7YrHM/nEQIT2QCg2xYYaxK60gar/iKEF50Ep1vRa8UAoMQ0 X+QtxmUEXaNzgHAozTw4Pm4h =BMCz Astro-Charts of Daniel Joseph Min: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=23XT09HB37303.0758680556@frog.gilgamesh .org ==== That's bullshit, and if you don't know it you're certifiable. Yeah right, like the Atlantis that was supposed to have risen now? Hah! You mean the rational kind? What about your kind, the obnoxious fools, who continue to mock decent sensibility with their foolish and failed prophecies? What's the count now, Min - how many times has the world ended, per your funky prophecies? Haven't you predicted at least 4 of the last 0 Apocalypses? I predict you're such an egomaniac you won't stop morphing to let the world live in peace without the mosquito-whine annoyance of your ridiculous postings. Let me see, that makes the score: Richard 1-1, Min 0-4. Prove me wrong! (You know you can't.) Oh, and I removed sci.astro out of courtesy, because they've told you so many times that your garbage is off-topic there. (Is there an alt.bonehead.min group yet? That's the only place your offal wouldn't be off-topic, come to think of it.) I dare you to show a little courtesy, I dare you. -- Richard http://www.astropro.com/ NetPager = http://wwp.mirabilis.com/1710868 phone/fax = 480-753-6261 Astrology is about time . . . what else is there? ==== continue What's the prophecies? world live in Let me see, can't.) many times yet? it.) I dare So Edgar Cayce is a chump huh? Jo What am I gonna do with all those stupid books? ==== Loan them to friends... I guarantee you'll never see them again! ;) ==== Please forgive me, for I'm just a little squirrel monkey and don't really know much about the ways of you higher primates, but could you feed them to your fellow chumps? -- Steve Tyler, Junior Primate. For a picture of me at work see: http://www.emory.edu/WHSC/YERKES/images/squirrelmonkey.jpeg (That's pretty hard for the bigger chumps to do you know!) For my employer see: Yerkes Regional Primate Research Center http://www.emory.edu/WHSC/YERKES/ . . . ==== That's a big if. Why would anyone admit those things without any proof or evidence that they are so? What you are saying is that once you've admitted that one unsupported supposition is true, another unsupported supposition must also be true. I don't think so. It's like saying, Once you've admitted that everything in the Bugs Bunny cartoons are the most complete, accurate and reliable records of the 20th century, etc. etc. R ==== THE SETI STAR MAPS: http://www.memorybankinc.com/SETI.htm ==== Pecos, Texas--This sleepy, backwater Texas Town has become the site of an ultrasecret government clone-breeding program. And 80 members of one 'model' alone quietly reside in the area. 'Despite its claims to the contrary, the U.S. leads the world in cloning research--government scientists cloned the first human in 1973. Take a drive through Pecos and it won't take long for you to see what I mean. 'You'll see a guy pumping your gas, then when you go to the diner for a hamburger, the 'same' guy will be behind the counter. 'Walk into the police station, there he'll be again, sitting behind a desk reading the funny papers and giving you a big smile like he's never seen you before in his life.' Banding claims the sinister-sounding project was initiated during the Cold War, when Russia and America were racing to outdo each other in create a perfect soldier, then churn out thousands of duplicates. The researcher claims there are now at least seven different 'models'in clones. 'The government still believes that cloning is the key to the future of our nation.' æææææ[Capi talEHat]ææææ[CapitalEHat ]æææææ[Capi talEHat]ææææ[CapitalEHat ]æææææ[Capi talEHat]ææææ[CapitalEHat ]æææææ[Capi talEHat]ææææ[CapitalEHat ]ææSue http://community.webtv.net/mapa7/SuesNews http://community.webtv.net/mapa7/SuesNews ==== I've been in town like that. I always assumed it was due to in-breeding. Jochen -- ------------------------------------------------- Margaret or Jochen Lueg tudor@argonet.co.uk http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/tudor ==== Oh, great, another WEBTV message.... ************************* On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 21:27:49 -0600 (CST), mapa7@webtv.net (Sue's ==== Well to answer your question he has only made some comments that any thinking person knows to be wrong by their own observations.. Such as the Milkyway and constelations moving about radically. Everyone knows they have been where they have always been for all of thier lives they have looked up at varios constellations all thier lives and they are still there. Other then that he has only said other peoples explanations are wrong the Sun is not lit by sunlight fro example, but he provides no other explanation even when challenged to do so. Personally it is our constant posting challenging him to explain that he adores he says this stuff cause he wants to see posts about himself he wants the attention and we all provide it. from the stand point of being here ot make sure his incorrect statements are not believed by a Newby ... I do not think anyone trusts just one source of information at least I do not. I'm sure most others do not either. My opinion would be to ignore him and eventually he will go away cause the game is no longer any fun. ==== Honestly, how many people do you suppose are seeking the opinion of someone posting as Me ? Just curious ... -- Steve Tyler ==== Yes I agree that NASA did not inform the masses about the inventions the stuff needed to get to the moon , and lets not forget one important thing that the space program gave us .. well you are all using it . Small computers if it was not for the need to make things small and compact and light weight who knows we all might be using room sized computers. One thing I do not regret is the money spent on the space program we are all richer for it. <3C61AF04.4DFF8FF0@attbi.com> ==== Actually it was a CASH REGISTER CO that contracted with Intel to produce a small computer chipset... the famous i4004, that started the computer revolution. Its competition and the game industry that has made it available to all! Hans ==== I heard David J. Smith discussing the so called Planet X. Seems it was detected in 2000 by observing a slight wobble or distortion in the orbits of Pluto, Neptune and Jupiter, but it was not seen. First time seen was supposedly May 2001 and was named 2001 KX76 - so for research you may want to look that up. He has two audio tapes of his messages that he will sell for $18. If you have Visa or MC you can call 1-800-516-8736 for those tapes. He referenced the Dec. 31 - Jan 7, 2002 available. Check with your librarian! Bro. Stair is the one I heard, at least twice, telling of the earth's poles shifting 90 degrees in an hour and average wind speeds of 200 MPH. He was probably reading from someone else's material but I didn't hear him give credit - he seldom does. Chances are folks send him stuff fact that a 90 degree shift would involve over 6000 miles and probably involve 10,000 mph winds if it happened in an hour -- allowing for acceleration and deceleration times. He didn't respond, but I didn't send a offering either. There is something out there but the effects on the earth, if any, are yet to be determined. It was declared to be a planet and was given its 2001 KX76 name about May 2001 or shortly thereafter. I have not seen it - just passing along info! ...But we all might by sometimes next year. ;-) Al -- All I know is what I read in the paper! Will Rogers, OK, who had an airport named after him. ==== This week's 11x14 $10 photo special is the Hubble Saturn image. Printed from a 24 megabyte source file. See other great images from earth-based and space-based observatory archives at http://www.skyimagelab.com. Available as a hi-res photographic image, matted, or framed. And...just added. Space and Astronomy Stamps. We will soon send out a catalog. Be sure to request one while visiting us. alt.astronomy,sci.astro.amateur,uk.sci.astronomy -- Sky Image Lab Saratoga, CA 95070 +1 (408) 741-5577 http://www.skyimagelab.com ==== they're what you call it when a really stupid idiot (like this guy) understands things in a way smart people don't - yet. Like the blind being able to see, something like that. Yes, the blind can see. ==== Is Planck space different than macro space? Is macro space different ==== On 3 Feb 2002 13:42:18 -0800, michlou@netzero.net (ThunderTroll) Please ,Please stop LOL .. sorry I can not stop laughing .. news Flash TT One of my most Favorite WINTER constellatioins when I was a boy was Orion and gee I lived in Northern Hemisphere... and that was oh 30 Plus years ago. I guess I must have been mistaken where I was huh? or I was seeing things, yes that is it I was halucinating . LOL I swear some people do not have a clue .. actually when ya think about it its pretty sad. ==== On 16 Feb 2002 00:49:15 -0000, Astro Nomikon SPAMMED in the hopes of attracting gullible and foolish people to gather round his cell and toss money his way...... Beginner's Reference: FOR THE TRULY GULLIBLE WHO BELIEVE WHAT I POST AND SPAM FORTH IN A CONSTANT BARRAGE.... SO THERE IS NO CHANCE FOR ERROR and THUS IT LOOKS AS IF I ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT IS BEING DONE ==== Still nothing but a bunch of bull shit. Totaly 100% Useless. -- 2,500,000 tons of steel, spining all alone in the Dark ... The Place is Babylon 5 www.starlords.org ==== On 15 Feb 2002 11:55:25 -0800, thorsdayus@yahoo.com KINDLY DOCUMENT your assertion that Hawking is a plagiarizer. Kindly provide specifics. As for your comments about the asteroids, please indicate where you published anything relevant about such. Kindly document. ---Mac ==== Why don't you try Cartes du Ciel, or in English, Sky Charts 2.71 I have found it pretty easy to use, accurate and, being freeware, downright inexpensive! It seems to have all the bells and whistles that I hear the other programs have. ==== Depends what you want to use it for. If you're after a charting program with an intergrated logbook I would go for SkyMap Pro, on the other hand if you want to do 'arm chair astronomy' via a planetarium program then get Starry Night. ==== Exactly. It's not a choice, because you are comparing two fine programs used for different purposes. Apples and oranges. But if you want to compare charting programs look for the free ones, too, such as Cartes du In message , Rob Pollard -- ==== Another free virtual planetarium : http://winstars.free.fr/english Franck vItb8.4206$a17.27321444@newsserver.ip.pt... ==== Oh, yes!! See if AGENT can use what you are coming up with. Definitely interested. ---Mac ****************************************** ==== Another set of references to the original measurements made by the USNO http://ad.usno.navy.mil/pub/pub_astpapers.html Astronomical Papers Prepared For The Use Of The American Ephemeris And Nautical Almanac. Published By The Nautical Almanac Office, U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, D.C. V.1 No.3 1882 Michelson, Albert A. Experimental Determination Of The Velocity Of Light Made At The United States Naval Academy, Annapolis. V,2 No.3 1891 Newcomb, Simon Measures Of The Velocity Of Light Made Under The Direction Of The Secretary Of The Navy During The Years 1880 - 1882. V.2 No.4 1891 Michelson, Albert A. Supplementary Measures Of The Velocities Of White And Colored Light In Air, Water, And Carbon Disulphide, Made With The Aid Of The Bache Fund Of The National Academy Of Sciences. See also http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~avery/course/3400/f2001/lectures/velocitylight.pdf Len ==== Yeah, it's frustrating finding scientific papers online. However, a search for the title at www.google.com easily found it. http://www.setterfield.org/report/report.html Now how can you be sure it was peer reviewed? And for anyone wondering about the author's credentials and motives see: A BRIEF BIOGRAPHY http://www.setterfield.org/bio.html Here is a vigorous rebuttal: The Decay of c-decay http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/c-decay.html -- Steve Tyler ==== These are all from the *19th* century. Measurement technology has improved considerably in the last 100 years. Scientists now have available many new technologies, including: *lasers* *atomic clocks* *satellites* *computers* BTW, the length of the meter is now *defined* in terms of the speed of light. http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/current.html -- Steve Tyler ==== If Min would just stick to one posting name so he would stay neatly in a killfile, nobody would care. As it is, his stars impel him to great pain and a long period of inactivity as all his broken fingers heal. -- http://home.teleport.com/~larryc ==== ********************* You are not being completely truthful. The problem with Daniel Joseph Min (well, just one of the problems) is that he lacks the courtesy to use just one set parameter so that many who consider his postings to be rude, inappropriate for a specific Newsgroup, etc., etc., can simply kill-file him and not be bothered and not impose upon others who might wish to read him. HOWEVER, this Daniel Joseph Min lacks consideration and courtesy and is impelled to force himself upon others and to astrology have also inquired for customers. As others have no doubt indicated, if Daniel Joseph Min had any degree of courtesy or any responsibility he would not have violated so many ISP and now be compelled to hide behind ReMailer systems so he can continue spamming. If he had any integrity he would use one set name, etc., rather than mutating his name several times per day to post anywhere up to a dozen posts per be ignored by many... and that, to this creature calling itself Daniel Joseph Min is the crux of the matter. ---Mac ==== Wrong totaly 100% wrong. The moon is moving away from the Earth. And the Earth has not changed, sometime in the far future it Might move outward, but that's not even a sure thing at this time. -- 2,500,000 tons of steel, spining all alone in the Dark ... The Place is Babylon 5 www.starlords.org following factors: the moon moves away from the earth - how big is this effect ? changing with helium? get ==== UK Home Secretary David Blunkett has urged people from ethnic minorities to develop what he calls a sense of belonging in Britain. In a newspaper interview, he says racism is often deep-seated and must be confronted, but immigrants who settle here must do their bit to ensure that future generations grow up feeling British. ############################### We have some hope here, first of all its multiculturalism, now feel British, now did not Blair say there was no British as such. Moslems have no intention of integrating, unless we integrate with them in our own land.the Bastards. Blunkett's really on another planet the sop to the conscience of the Nulab softies, is out of his depth he spouts platitudes, with no real conviction, then one as difficulty in believing a blind man we rely on seeing peoples eyes to reinforce honesty and confidence in the person we are listening to. I think Blairs scam in using Blunkett for the sympathy vote is back firing, the man cannot be and is not up to the task, then no is Blair for that matter. ==== Correct Newsgroup? to that British, conviction, firing, --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). ==== We have some hope here, first of all its multiculturalism, now feel British, conviction, ==== Most literally, 2300 contiguous solar days from the death and passion of Jesus-Christ is Julian 1732495 + 2300 = JD 1734795 which is 10 Av 3797 and Sunday 11-Aug-37 AD. This is M. Nostradamus' 3797 by diurnal count, i.e. the primum mobile, tenth heaven, Earth counting by evening-morning. Most literally, 2300 contiguous tropical years from the death and passion of Jesus-Christ, is Julian Day 2572551, 14 Nisan 6091, 22-Apr-2331. This is the mobile, ninth heaven of autumnal & vernal equinox-times (Neptune reigns) counting times evening-morning in the common calendar; evening fall & winter, morning spring & summer. That's 329 years to go counting from this year, 2002 AD, indicating the outermost extent, most gradual end to this transition from the fourth to the fifth empire, much sooner is the rubble. In other words, before Wednesday April 22 2331, the fourth empire will be completely forgotten, utterly consumed, & that's not so long to wait, barely three or four incarnated lifetimes left before the ledger is balanced & the golden age of Saturn by Jupiter reigns for the 1000 years until Shaitan is unchained again in due season. et dixit ei usque ad vesperam and said he all the way until evening et mane duo milia trecenti et and morning two thousand three hundred and mundabitur sanctuarium... will be cleansed the sanctuary... et visio vespere et mane quae and vision of evening and morning which dicta est vera est tu ergo signa is told is verily to be, you therefore seal up visionem quia post dies multos erit the vision, because afterwards days many shall be --interlinear translation by Daniel Joseph Min Below are some excerpts from Young's literal translation of Daniel 8, which is available with all bible books, and translations, on http://www.onlinebible.net/downloads.html 10 yea, it exerteth unto the host of the heavens, and causeth to fall to the earth of the host, and of the stars, and trampleth them down. 11 And unto the prince of the host it exerteth itself, and by it taken away hath been the continual sacrifice, and thrown down the base of his sanctuary. 12 And the host is given up, with the continual sacrifice, through transgression, and it throweth down truth to the earth, and it hath worked, and prospered. 13 'And I hear a certain holy one speaking, and a certain holy one saith to the wonderful numberer who is speaking: Till when is the vision of the continual sacrifice, and of the transgression, an astonishment, to make both sanctuary and host a treading down? 14 And he saith unto me, Till evening-morning two thousand and three hundred, then is the holy place declared right.... 24 and his power hath been mighty, and not by his own power; and wonderful things he destroyeth, and he hath prospered, and wrought, and destroyed mighty ones, and the people of the Holy Ones. 25 'And by his understanding he hath also caused deceit to prosper in his hand, and in his heart he exerteth himself, and by ease he destroyeth many; and against the prince of princes he standeth--and without hand he is broken. 26 And the appearance of the evening and of the morning, that is told, is true; and thou, hide thou the vision, for it is after many days.'--YLT iQA/AwUBPG7WLJljD7YrHM/nEQKNTQCfTdAeOmjK8GiqkKTahULV6OZQpS4AoLol G0FTEnWg1LM6W+EiGgThwSqW =J9OI Astro-Charts Homepage: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=23XT09HB37303.0758680556@frog.gilgamesh .org ==== I seem to remember reading somewhere that fast scopes (F4-F6 etc.) are better for planetary viewing while long scopes (F10-F11 etc) are better for deep-sky observing. Is this true? If so why would this make a difference?? ==== That's exactly backwards. Fast scopes for deepsky, long Focal length for planetary. Fast scopes form a smaller/brighter image good for dim extended objects. Longer fl means larger dimmer images (same diameter objective) which is best for small bright objects like planets. -- David Staup Arlington TX http://flashpages.prodigy.net/dstaup/home1/Page_1x.html ==== In message <3C6FFDD9.743FB1A7@flash.net>, David Staup And it isn't even that simple. If you want to look for planetary nebulae (which are usually very small) you're going to use fairly high magnification. ==== : : I seem to remember reading somewhere that fast scopes (F4-F6 etc.) are : better for planetary viewing while long scopes (F10-F11 etc) are better for : deep-sky observing. Is this true? If so why would this make a difference?? Actually, the longer focal length would be better for all viewing, _IF_ only the tube weren't there. So short focal lengths give a much wider field, which iswhat you want for stars. You can't resolve the disk of a star anyway, and the aperture of the primary mirror determines the light collecting. Newtonians without tubes have been made, and off-axis scopes have a use too, but unless you have a permanent observatory, these are not a good idea. Joe Fischer -- 3 ==== On 3 Feb 2002 04:02:38 -0800, michlou@netzero.net (ThunderTroll) I swear he is pretty funny guy the next thing ya know he will say the earth is flat and that we stay on the surface of the earth cause it sucks ROTFLMAO ==== He choses to be one. ==== On 16 Feb 2002 20:37:55 -0000, Astro Nomik **************************** And that, after all, tells one quite a bit about the creature calling itself Daniel Joseph Min. He is one of the few who deliberately choses to be such a scumbag. Amazing. ---Mac ==== A few weeks ago JudyM posted a Betelguese/Orion teaching program on how to locate stars from Orion's belt. Would someone please post the link to this excellent program for beginner's again. TIA Jim ==== Anyone else recently downloaded the Meade Pictor 7.14 software only to find the Auto Focus option has gone!!! Anyone who can point me in the direction of this very useful option would be apreciated. Mark LT ==== On Sun, 3 Feb 2002 16:01:40 +1000, A. Owen The sunlight reflected from the surface of the moon was quite bright besides try and take a picture of the stars at night from earth .. It requires fast film and a very long shutter openeing to get any usable light to expose the film. Stars are no bright .. Another thing you can do is go out your door and look up to see some stars ... next turn on an outside light or shine a light into your eyes from the side . viola no stars . ==== I have always been interested in astronomy and I have a long term goal to set up my ideal setup which is as follows: by PC software and have the image that comes from the scope displayed on my PC screen. SO in essence I can browse the stars/moon while sitting at my pc (on the cold nights we have here in the UK) As I am a total newbie to all of this, is my 'dream' possible and if so what would I need (just the telescope side of things not the pc). Any advice / recommendations appreciated Zed ==== Does the skylight window open? If not, most of what you'll see is going to be either fuzzy, stretched or distorted in some way. You'd be better off replacing the skylight with one that can be opened most of the way. There are a number of good links which others will most likely post here in record time, to direct you to how to choose a telescope. It all really depends on what you want to look at, and how much light pollution you have to deal with, where you live. If it were my place to remodel, I'd remove the skylight, place an elevated or suspended chair that rotates and slap a rotating dome on that roof . Easy! Oh, and the scope of choice would be a 12 LX200 Meade... but I'm a dreamer... -- Gil eyes to the sky Tennant 43Á 32.348' N / 78Á 34.867' W (Ontario, Canada) astronut@rogers.com to controlled on my my pc so what advice / ==== Starting to look at this interesting subject and would like to know more about the telescopes themselves. What are the advantages/disadvantages between the various types of Scopes i.e. Reflector?Refractor etc. Are there any other types for the amateur. How are magnifications and brightness etc rated particularly how is a Reflector Scopes magnification measured. Any sites or info appreciated. Griff. ==== Generally speaking... With a reflector, you usually get more aperture for your money. Aperture (diameter of the telescope opening) is supremely important - the bigger, the more light you can gather and the more you can see. Refractors will give especially sharp images of planets and moon, but they cost a lot when you get into large aperture. Reflectors usually require periodic alignment (collimation) of the primary and secondary mirrors. Many amateurs choose a newtonian reflector on a dobsonian mount - because it's the cheapest way to get large aperture. Catadioptric telescopes (combination of reflector and refractor) are more expensive than relectors. Their advantage is a compact size - easier to transport. Also give very sharp planetary images. Examples of this kind of scope are Schmidt-Cassegrain and Maksutov-Cassegrain. Usable magnification is a function of focal length and aperture. See here http://www.astronomy.org.nz/journal/1999/oct1999/backtobasics.htm Go to http://telescope.com and read absolutely everything in the Learning Center (top menu) - especially the Equipment Basics section. This site is also a great source for high quality beginner/intermediate telescopes. Choose a reputable brand of telescope. Avoid department store or mall telescopes. Examples of good manufacturers are Celestron, Mead and Orion. An example of a poor manufacturer is 'Tasco'. Good luck& have fun! Jack ==== I've just bought a GX200 and now I'd like to buy a new mount but I'm a little bit undecided among this: GP,GP/DX,EQ5 and EQ6...which do you think fit best with the GX200? ==== On 16 Feb 2002 03:39:06 -0800, thorsdayus@yahoo.com (ThunderTroll) The only reason they came up withe idea is because they can't explain why gravity is so weak. They claim that gravity is spread out across the many universes and all together it is just as strong as the other 3 forces. Hundreds of trillions of other realities is a lot to have to invent just to explain a force that no one really understands anyway. I reckon someone needs to make a sliding machine, huh? ==== And this response proves how determined the mentally handicapped are, to keep everybody else as confused as they are. Unable to understand the simplest things. So they give up, and say the answers are just an invention. Gravity is just a perception of the mind. I wonder if this, is this too hard for them to understand? ==== electron creates a positron at the same time. Nature has mad more universes in pairs than anything else. They are easy to make,and she has infinite room to work with. Like a child I think of this every night before going to sleep. I dream a dream that starts off looking in a mirror.I now know it is not me ,but my parrel universe has every thing almost the same as here on earth. My parrel twin I named Breh,and he is left handed.We came up with a number game that is played like a wegee board.Having lots of problem getting started.It should end up like tick tac toe,but more complicated. If I can make a break through I will ==== Everyone knows that planet x was destroyed long ago. That is where we get our asteroid belt from. (And to those who say there is not enough material to make a planet, in an explosion stuff goes everywhere. Just a small amount would end up in orbit in a belt. The rest would be blasted off into space. ) That is why on most moons and planets in the solar system one side is more heavily cratered than the other. The cratered side was in the path of the debris. I have even heard that Mars was a moon of planet X. The water traces on the surface are from the oceans of planet X being blasted onto it. Mars couldn't hold the water and it sublimed into space. I don't know if Mars was a moon or not, but it makes sense to me. ==== Planets X and Pluto William Graves Hoyt Format: Paperback, 302pp. ISBN: 0816506647 Publisher: University of Arizona Press Unfortunately this is out of print. Hoyt worked at the Lowell Observatory. http://www.lowell.edu/Research/library/paper/wg_hoyt.html -- Steve Tyler ==== This makes almost as much sense as the other Planet X theory. Where in the world do you get this stuff? RM ==== can you please provide a mechanism whereby planets explode? -- Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult: http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down. ==== Jehova's Witness Publication-The Watchtower ==== Are you serious? R ==== An extremely high speed meteor would do it if it was large enough. A large body passing close by could break a planet into pieces like shoemaker levy. We have no way of knowing if a brown dwarf passed through the soloar system hundreds of millions of years ago. If you want to really go out on a limb, planet X could have had intelligent life on it and they made a doomsday machine. I wasn't there, I don't know. I didn't get any of my info from that cult of Jehova witnesses either. I thought it up on my own. Can YOU explain why a great many of the objects in this solar system have many more craters on one side than the other? How could Mars have had so much water if there is nearly none there now? I hear astronomers claim that Mars had a nearly world-wide flood at one time. They poopoo the idea of the same thing happening on Earth yet there is more than enough water to cover the entire planet here now. Where would Mars get that much water only to loose it? Why is there debris where a planet should be? Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter are all at the right place. But between Mars and Jupiter there is no planet where one should be. There is instead debris. No one was here back then so any theory is exactly as valid as the next one. Ookie <3c6dbb13.280411555@news-server.carolina.rr.com> <6unr6u40he6sb0urv07u4mcanrvgm5me7l@4ax.com> <3c6f1fbe.2846854@news-server.carolina.rr.com> ==== In message <3c6f1fbe.2846854@news-server.carolina.rr.com>, Ookie To take your last point first, that's the classic creationist argument and it doesn't hold water. Only theories which fit the facts are valid. Most of your other arguments have been proposed by Tom van Flandern, who probably coined the phrase exploding planet hypothesis (EPH). We do have a way of showing that a brown dwarf has never passed through the solar system - we are still here, and the planets are in stable, more-or-less circular, commensurate orbits. Mars lost its atmosphere and water because it has low gravity and no magnetic field to protect it from the solar wind. ==== I think that's pretty apparent. There are other reasons. Think about what I believe you're suggesting: that the cratered sides all face the direction of the exploded planet (that is what you're suggesting, isn't it?). But all of these planets and moons rotate, presenting their heavily-cratered sides and lightly-cratered sides to every part of the solar system. Besides, this dichotomy is not universal--it is a feature of only some worlds. Why just those and not every body in the solar system? Look it up, for heaven's sake. Astronomers go into considerable detail about the mechanisms by which Mars lost its original water. Why should one be there? Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter are all at the right place. But between Are you perhaps taking Bode's Law a little too literally? Not so. A viable theory still has to work within known mechanisms of planetary science. RM ==== I've used an 80A (not sure if that's a moon filter or not) on Jupiter to heighten the contrast on the GRS and the EBs. I had better contrast in my 8 Sky-Watcher Dob than what I saw in an associate's 16 Dob. The only other filter I have at the moment is a ND4 for light reduction. I pull it out to use on a FULL/BRIGHT moon. Although I prefer the 80A to increase the contrast during other lunar phases. I could see some benefit to using LPR filters in mixed lighting conditions or for specific effects in imaging, but for the most part, too many filters is simply going to spoil the broth . -- Gil eyes to the sky Tennant 43Á 32.348' N / 78Á 34.867' W (Ontario, Canada) astronut@rogers.com able to though. light people there just of ==== Sean, Right you are. Now I remember the owner of the telescope shop who sold me the ND4, and it was that filter that I am suppose to relate moon to... thanks! -- Gil eyes to the sky Tennant 43Á 32.348' N / 78Á 34.867' W (Ontario, Canada) astronut@rogers.com usually neutral all used to certain is wavelength only a ==== If you live in a light polluted area, I would agree that most filters (not all of them) are next to useless. On the other hand, if your skies are dark, the right filters will open new doors. For openers, try an Orion UltraBlock, particularly if you like to view DSOs. Al ==== -- Gil eyes to the sky Tennant 43Á 32.348' N / 78Á 34.867' W (Ontario, Canada) astronut@rogers.com (not are Orion Comments: This message probably did not originate from the above address. ==== Progression is one and global. Transits are to the meridian of longitude where you are standing. For further info, see: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=23XT09HB37303.0758680556@frog.gilgamesh . org iQA/AwUBPG3kNJljD7YrHM/nEQIRnACeNrpKdeArLwbfQJI+s3twDqqc6xIAn2g5 a7yGxePqDZbLj3Tc3fJp/cad =R7he ==== On 4 Feb 2002 16:19:11 -0800, michlou@netzero.net (ThunderTroll) Oh and your theory is ????? Lets see I have heard some of your dribble . it is made up of Luminious green cheese . It is lit by a huge canlde and the man in the moon lights it each night.. It is Radioactive and glows on its own like a watch dial. am I getting close Moron ??? Take a look at it . explain why you can see shadows . in the exact place if it were lit by the sun ? next thing you will say that there is no sun .. that is really a giant flashlight held by a giant that keeps the universe together .. Nope I'm sorry TT , I think you need to go back and live with your relatives at the zoo and leave the rest of us alone .. ==== Michele: What type of lens? A not too sophisticated solution may be to paint out and opaque the scratch with an opaque paint. Artists oil paints such as those sold by Utrecht have high pigment to stand oil ratios and are highly opaque. The principle being that if light cannot get into the scratch the light cannot be refracted to cause image degradation. The remaining open area of the lens would function as before, and there would be only a tiny loss of light gathering power. Use a Russian sable brush that has a good point. Lens makers used to use a type of black lacquer. I cannot say how that may interact with fluoride or germanium lenses. Ralph Hertle .......................... ==== Doug, Maybe it's been pointed out in this thread by now, but Paul Hodge was able to lower himself enough to write for the joke of a magazine in the March 2002 issue. Take a look at the masthead for the Astronomical Journal to learn who he is. stuffed can't get along? Tom -- Tom Polakis Tempe, AZ Arizona Sky Pages http://www.psiaz.com/polakis/ ==== A radio transmission from outer space that indicates a space alien 'police force' is speeding toward Earth at 93,000 miles per second--that's half the speed of light-- in a do--or--die attempt to bring peace to a planet and civilization that hatred has [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace]torn apart! The aliens will use a number of powerful machines to bring about their plan of universal peace. 'They may use mind-alteing devices to eliminate hatred. They may use force fields to protect our cities. And they may even establish a cosmic prison for evildoers.' [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace]S ue http://community.webtv.net/mapa7/SuesNews http://community.webtv.net/mapa7/SuesNews ==== Or maybe they're just interested in the coffee and donuts. ==== Is light slowing down or is the rest of the universe showing its ==== Stuart: I'm not an expert on these matters, and I do suspect an obfuscatory scam that seems markedly similar to the one used by mystic Deconstructionist architects and modern non-objective artists in order to con the customer, and that may be used by some scientists or educators in order to pad the bill or for resume enhancement purposes. I offer these four multiple part questions: 1 Question regarding electromagnetism: What is the stuff in outer space that is electromagnetism? If light, and all EM radiation, is made of photons what is magnetism? How does electromagnetism differ from magnetism? 2 Question regarding light and electromagnetic radiation: With the velocity of light being C at all times, places, respects, and frames of reference, isn't there some sort of a shell game going on in that the axiom of Non-Contradiction is being violated? A velocity must always have a standard dimensional motion as its referent, that is, as a standard of dimensional motion to which the dimensional motion of the observed existent is being compared, and a numerical ratio generated. Which referent is the standard referent for measuring the velocity of light: the emitter, the medium, the photon, or the receiver? It cannot be all four at the same time. Even simple logical arithmetic can tell is that. 3 Question regarding the Doppler effect as applied to the VOL: Is not the measure of time the Earth's angular rotation that is expressed in a numerical ratio to measured travel along a straight line (that is a result of prior standard measurements of the dimensional values of one cc. of water)? That's where we are - on Earth. But the claimed application of the Doppler effect, that is used to justify the Red Shift and even the BB, requires that the velocity of propagation, somewhere in outer space, is the constant frame of reference. In air the motion away of the emitter will produce a lower energy level of propagated waves which in air travel at the VOS. The VOS is always the same in standard air. But then the VOS is not the same with regard to either the emitter or the receiver. Furthermore the standard dimensional motion of some entity must be specified in order to even form the abstract concept of a velocity in some units. A standard reference position must also be stated from which the application of the concept of time may be initiated in order to obtain a specific measurement. Which starting location is used as a standard reference position for use in calculating the VOL? Is not the Doppler Effect inapplicable to the problem of the apparent red shift unless standard time references and referent locations are included in the specification of its proof? 4 Question regarding space: There is, however, nothing in outer space that will support waves of EML. The Doppler Effect in the void of outer space is impossible. Is it not true that there is nothing there through which waves of anything can travel? Therefore, the concept of the application of the Doppler Effect in explaining the apparent red shift is not logically necessary, and is inapplicable. The relationship is merely coincidental, and the proof of the cause of the red shift as a function of the Doppler Effect is merely one of application and not logical and factual necessity. Ralph Hertle ........................................ ==== coin. Both come out of the electrons spinning field.Both share the field equally. If the field is stationary,that is its magnetic moment. If the field is moving that is the electric current. The field is made of photons spinning at C If the field is high in energy it will release a photon,low in energy it will absorbed a photon. All photons leave at C and with the same wave length as received Electron fields can spin clockwise or counter clockwise,and this is what creates their poles and attraction and repulsion. A photon never slows down. It is an illusion created by the photon going a greater distance. It takes light an average 100,000 years to break through the sun's surface after leaving the sun's core,but at no time did it go faster or slower than 'C' A lot of this is my thinking so flame away. ==== Multiple universes aren't so scarey. The explanation is very simple. Existing on different vibrations, is why they can exist in the same place as you, without being felt. They can be tuned into, like different radio stations. And can be heard on radios, that have odd channels. This explains why many people hear about events on the radio, that will draw blank stares from people in this world. One of the most common, is concert events. Or events with a date, that aren't happening in this world, yet. Other worlds exist in future times. Inspirations in this world, are translations of future events. Seeing the future is possible, but it is impossible to tell the exact date that events will happen in this world. It depends on how fast worlds are merged. And how fast worlds are merged depends on every entity. And the event won't happen exactly the same. Always a little different. Very easy to understand so many things now. Ghosts, schizophrenia, psychics. Even multiple personalities. For seperate universes have other you's. That are different people, but the same. And in some universes you are dead. How many have found that strange picture in a drawer, that doesn't seem possible? A picture taken that couldn't have happened. Showing you somewhere you have never been. But were too scared to talk about it. ==== Had an incredible sunrise this morning followed by a beautiful 'ring' around the sun as it peeked through some wispy cirrus clouds. Picture of it here: http://currentsky.com/wx/sun-halo.jpg Clear Skies... Bob Riddle Starwalk, Inc. http://currentsky.com (Lee's Summit, MO) ==== Shame that the picture isn't bigger, that would have made for one of those really special desktop wallpapers that everyone loves looking at. Colin Dawson (Baildon) lat : N53 50 43 long : W01 46 14 news@cdawson.tele2.co.uk around ==== Beautiful! RM ==== Well we know the tallest mountain on Mars is 80,000 feet high,and created by a volcano.We also know Mars is half the size of Earth.What are the best reasons for this? Is the peak of this volcanic cone a way of going back to when Mars was younger? Well gravity force on Mars could be one reason,and not much erosion with such a thin cold atmosphere. Still it is kind of interesting.Venus must have low mountains with that ==== I found the best way was a mixture of 60/40 isopropanol (from the chemist) and surgical cotton whool to apply it. Just dap it, don't rub. Careful with compund lenses, the liquid can seep into the gap. To remove any residue use a spray with distilled water and dab again. (Use the kind of spray bottle used for plants). Seems to work for me. If the lenses are cheap, presumably a bit of rubbing matters not. Jochen -- ------------------------------------------------- Margaret or Jochen Lueg tudor@argonet.co.uk http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/tudor ==== On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:55:18 -0500, Robert-Francois Trudeau I would suggest that you use either a lens pencil or photo lens cleaning solution and tissues. If you mean the 1.5x erector tube, then I would suggest that you don't use it, as it will only make things more unstable. It is really only meant to be used for terrestrial viewing (as the image it produces are the right way up). Using it will degrade the quality of the image, as the light has to pass through even more lenses. I suspect that they are Kellner EPs, 18mm and 9mm, both are usable but don't expect really good images. But then again, the 50mm objective is really only going to offer reasonable views of the Moon (you'll see many of the major features), Jupiter (you may be able to make out the equatorial belts plus its 4 moons) and possibly a very small Saturn, complete with rings (and 1 of its moons). You should be able to make out M42 (in Orion) and see a little of the nebulosity. My 60mm Tasco came with a Kellner 4mm and Huygens 12.5mm EP, a 2.3x Barlow (basically useless with this scope), a 1.5x erector tube (only used for terrestrial use). The 4mm (175x)is almost useless as it takes the optics past their optimum range (125x), the 12.5mm (56x) is more useful. My son now has this scope. I hope this helps a bit? I also started with a Tasco 'cheap' refractor (60mm), but now have got a 250mm (8) F6 Newtonian Reflector, which offers better light gathering and far brighter and sharper images. Martin Overton BTS & ATS Member Arachnophiliac/The Tarantula's Burrow - http://arachnophiliac.com/burrow/home.htm ==== Martin, Omcon is a brand name of Synta (China). They make OTA and eyepieces for Sky-Watcher, among others. You'll also find Omcon Speers Wallers, Erfles, Pl.9assls, Kellners, and ones even lower than that, coming from Synta, under this brand name. Sky Instruments in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada; are the North American importers and distributors of this brand. -- Gil eyes to the sky Tennant 43Á 32.348' N / 78Á 34.867' W (Ontario, Canada) astronut@rogers.com what ==== I guessed that much ;-) Indeed, that is why I thought that they are of Kellner design/construction. I have a similar Tasco scope and one of the EPs supplied was marked K (Kellner) and the other H (Huygens). Martin Overton BTS & ATS Member Arachnophiliac/The Tarantula's Burrow - http://arachnophiliac.com/burrow/home.htm ==== I've seen a number of posts of visiting your local astronomy club for telescope purchase advice. However can you throw so help out for the following. Current state analysis: 1) I am purchasing for my retired father 2) He is not computer literate though is generally quite smart 3) He lives on the coast of Ireland away from cities 4) He has no astronomy experience 5) He wants to gaze upon the stars - just getting the best experience possible 6) Classic tripod, bring a chair experience I assume 7) Automatic help for lining up the telescope would be great (a database of stars) 8) Price range US$ 500 - 1000 I would like to find online sellers, read and understand the specifications. My first 'find' was NexStar 4 and the G8 (http://www.starsafaris.com/selectascope/stpageproduct4.htm). I would like to get some links to other places where I can shop around for products in the same class. thanks! Tim ==== Are you an engineer? ;-) He'll need some astro reference books. I've appended a few titles. The naked eye and binoculars are great tools for gazing upon the stars. Dobs are commonly recommended too. No way! Smart star gazers use star-hopping. :-) But seriously, you can search for usenet threads on GoTo 'scopes at http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search You DO sound like an engineer. :-) Orion (in the US) has a good selection of binoculars and 'scopes. http://www.telescope.com/ See also Phil Harrington's book Star Ware: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pharrington/homepage.htm You don't say where in the world you are! I suggest going to a library or bookstore and Are you planning to send a 'scope or just a gift certificate? -- Steve Tyler === http://www.barnesandnoble.com/ === The National Audubon Society Field Guide to the Night Sky Mark R. Chartrand Wil Tirion A Field Guide to the Stars and Planets Jay M. Pasachoff Wil Tirion Touring the Universe through Binoculars: A Complete Astronomer's Guidebook Phillip S. Harrington Sky Atlas 2000.0 Wil Tirion Roger W. Sinnott Sky Atlas 2000.0 Companion Robert A. Strong Roger W. Sinnott The Cambridge Star Atlas Wil Tirion Norton's Star Atlas and Reference Handbook Ian Ridpath (Editor) Deep-Sky Companion: The Messier Objects Stephen James O'Meara Foreword by David H. Levy Burnham's Celestial Handbook: An Observer's Guide to the Universe beyond the Solar System (3 Volumes) Robert Burnham Herbert A. Luft ==== Software engineer :-) material. I am in Toronto and I thought to ultimately order online but have the telescope delivered to Ireland - though I assume that will cost a bit more. thanks! Tim experience around ==== I'm a newbie, but just taken the plunge into a scope. Hope my comments are useful, abeit not backed up be any experience. OK, forget aboue planitarium software, and concentrate more on books and charts. Besides the Goto scopes cost a small fortune. I'm a computer techie so, can't help here. Nice dark skys, you should be able to see alot more that me. are you sure? He's never looked up before, at night? You'll need a decent tripod then, something of sturdy construction, even the smallest movement of the tripod will have a dramatic effect in the eyepiece. There are goto scopes, it's a little like programming a video recorder. Point the telescope north, level the tube. Then point to a couple more stars and that's it. You'll then be able to call up anything you like from the database. But these will pushup the price of the scope. hmmm, a little low for a goto scope, you should stick to the conventional kind. There are the meade ETX range however. But remember that what you spend on electronics, you can't spend on optics. At the end of the day it's the size of the apperture and the quality of the optics that make the scope worth getting. Simple rule of thumb seems to be don't bother with a scope smaller that about 6. HTH -- Colin Dawson (Baildon) lat : N53 50 43 long : W01 46 14 news@cdawson.tele2.co.uk ==== Don't you believe it! The first thing he needs is some sort of weather machine to drive the clouds away. I live in Northern Ireland and the nights per month with good seeing can be counted on the fingers of one injured hand. Jochen -- ------------------------------------------------- Margaret or Jochen Lueg tudor@argonet.co.uk http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/tudor ==== is there an ez way to setup the mirors in my telescope? tune it for best performance? maybe a web page with instructions? do i just eyeball it? bushnell 4.5 inch 900mm sorry if this is a dumb question and everyone but me knows the answer..... ==== This may or may not be what you are looking, but I figured links from a telescope page would be a good place to start. Therefore, go to http://www.scopereviews.com/ Go all the way to the bottom of the page and hit links. Chances are some of those links will add to other links, etc. I did not check it out -- hey, I got you this far. ;-) Happy hunting. If you find something interesting, pass it along to the rest of us. P.S. Just a thought.... Have you checked with the manufacturer of your equipment to see if they recommend a given procedure? They could even have instructions online. Al -- The truth is hate -- to those who HATE the truth! ==== A great looking links page: http://astronomylinks.com/ Even has an other link directories links page and links on telescope making. Al -- The truth is hate -- to those who HATE the truth! ==== Try this collimation site: http://www.efn.org/~mbartels/tm/collimat.html ==== Fascinating, but how come you and Wally never bothered to respond to my post about Cayce 20 days ago? Rodney ==== A complete fiction. RM ==== On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 21:29:57 -0500, joyce small I don't know, it could be many reasons. I may not have seen it. It may not have had anything that required a response or had anything interesting to say. -- Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult: http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down. ==== lost its nose during the Boar war.It said the British used the sphinx ==== I don't think that dowsing is a con, going from what has been shown about it. I'm sure someone will prove whether there is anything to it. All it takes is someone to examine it under so-called scientific conditions, with a dowser who can work under those conditions - not in a negative way that Randi sets up, but in a neutral way. That program I mentioned, looked at some Tibetan monks who could survive under extreme cold conditions during their meditation - when they were examined in the laboratory and monitored - they weren't performing as they should, but in their normal environment (with a camera crew present) they did what they normally do. Just because something can't be performed in the laboratory, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Harvey wanglese@spbigpondam.net.au says... ==== You keep going on about Randi. Kind of bugs you doesn't it?. Does it occur to you for a single instant that there are skeptic societies all over the world who have tested dowsers, and they ALL FAIL? No, I thought not. You might like to understand that in all cases I've seen, the test is only set up to prevent cheating. Seems no dowsers are able to perform when cheating is eliminated or prevented. and just because you see something on TV, or you have a favourite belief, doesn't make it so. -- Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult: http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down. ==== -- Mixed emotions on pebble. This psychological tendency needs to be eradicated from our species. If they believe they need to take their own lives... we should probably let them. Life is for the living... not the 'waiting and wishing to die'. Hate to see 'good' people go... but these types often evolve into threats against society... demanding that we believe as they do... and quite honestly, we have enough Jean's in the world already. ==== Well, I inadvertently posted it twice so it would have been a little difficult to miss, but it here it is for the third time: Here is my promised reply: > Cayce was a fraud. And it's not Randi that says so. Simple. > > http://www.skepdic.com/cayce.html : Having read both negative (such as this) and plenty of positive on Cayce... : I'm left with one basic conclusion... : Why does anyone take him seriously? He was wrong. Very very often. Many : of his diagnosis cases were so wide-ranging that they HAD to hit on : whatever was causing the problem (and in each case the actual meaning was : rarely discerned until after the actual illness was given later). The case : of his wife's tuberculosis diagnosis is just one of many such examples - if : he even mentions the organs affected, then the bulk of what else he said : (that bears no relation, even to other osteopaths) can be discounted. I'm glad you brought this case up. According to Martin Gardner and Robert Carroll (on http://www.skepdic.com/cayce.html), this is a clear-cut case of Cayce not knowing what he was talking about. But where did they get their information? All of it can be found in the book There Is A River by Thomas Sugrue. Did either do any original research, such as interviewing people who are familiar with the facts of the case? If they had, they might have discovered the following version of events (taken from: http://www.caycegoldengate.com/ec_story1.html ) By late summer, Gertrude's doctor had changed his diagnosis. He called Cayce aside and spoke the awful truth: Gertrude had tuberculosis and was dying. A TB specialist confirmed that nothing further could be done. Everyone expected her to die by the end of the year except her husband. Edgar gave a reading. While in the sleep state, he recommended a combination of prescription drugs as well as filling a charred oak keg with apple brandy. Gertrude was to inhale the fumes to clear up the congestion. Although the doctors claimed that the combination prescription. After following this treatment for only two days, Gertrude was felling better and her fever had fallen. By September she was even better, and by November even her doctors decided she was going to get well. By the first part of January, 1912, Gertrude Cayce was fully recovered. One would think that if the above version of events were false, Gardner, Carroll, or someone else like Randi would have refuted it. Why do you suppose no one has? : Also, for every error of his (and there were quite a few... far more than : his successes) You base that allegation on what? According to his sons' book (The Outer Limits of Edgar Cayce's Power), Cayce's batting average was about 85%. Randi tries to refute this by saying that many of Cayce's failures were probably never reported, but like Gardner and Carroll, he can't be bothered to actually do any research to determine whether his speculation is accurate. : , there was a simple explanation that could of course never be : disproven by it's nature. If the person he diagnosed (for that day) had : been dead for a little while, he was reading the past. If something is not : where is said it will be, then it's something that HAS been there in the : past or WILL be there in the future. Oh, and of course, you have to BELIEVE : in him to be cured... which might explain why the vast majority of people he : attempted cures for didn't get cured - they didn't believe him implicitly. The best evidence is that the vast majority of Cayce's cures worked; see again The Outer Limits of Edgar Cayce's Power. : (note: belief is usually enough in itself - just look at faith healers. : As long as you don't TELL them how it works, it often does work... ditto : placebo's, and one reason why doctors try not to tell you that you'll never : recover from something). So how do you account for cases in which the doctors failed but Cayce succeeded? : Then there's his readings of future events. Where he was vague, people : almost always find something they can tie to within a few years of that : date... it's easy. One experiment I tried was taking a number of his : predictions (namingly, ones people hold as proof) and changed the dates to : random dates within 10 years after the readings. In each case I could find : something to prove that it was right... even after the date was wrong. : (like his mention of a new superweapon - his date of 58 was harder to : reconcile than any of the fake ones I generated). If nothing else, they can : say it happened and was kept secret. But, when he's precise and direct, : he's usually wrong. (China doesn't seem like a christian state to me, three : decades after it hapened). If you believe in free will, forecasting the future is uncertain business even for the best of psychics. But many of Cayce's predictions were, in fact, right on the money. Such as before the stock crash in 1929, when one of his readings categorically told an investor to sell everything, even the box (a high quality stock). Cayce also made investors in Virginia Beach, VA real estate wealthy by accurately forecasting a real estate boom, and he forecast a coming friendship between the US and Russia at a time when relations were at a low point. : I hate simply discounting something... so maybe one of his supporters can : show me the error of my ways. I've just touched the tip of the iceberg above. Almost all of Cayce's readings are available to be viewed at Virginia Beach or can be purchased on CD Rom, and many are available on-line. A number catalog remarkable recoveries from difficult medical conditions. Rodney ==== they One wonders why the monks couldn't stay in their monastery while the scientists observed them there. But I suppose then that all the wires and cameras and observers would STILL prevent the monks from performing as they should. The famous sex researchers, Masters & Johnson, got people to perform SEX while fully wired and watched. Masters and Johnson observed sexual activity in a laboratory setting. They developed tools and techniques for accurately measuring the physical responses of 700 men and women during masturbation and intercourse. http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20011203.html Why can't serene and celibate monks match THAT? Sorry Wally. This started out as a reply to your post, but, as you can see, it ended up as a post about monks and sex. Please forgive me. ;-) -- Steve Tyler Holy Order of the Surrogate Hostess Bless.8fd Be the Wires and the Watchers ==== On Sat, 16 Feb 2002 20:37:59 -0500, joyce small Well it appears the second was the appropriate response. That ius, you had nothing interesting to say. The same reason people used to ring up Miss Cleo. That's One version. Funny thing is, never seen an assessment of Cayce in a scientific journal. I suppose he's not worth the effort. By the way, you can bring up as many positives as you want. Lots of people make whacky predictions, lots of them, in the forlorn hope they will get a hit. Where is Atlantis? Because maybe it's not worth the effort? It happens to be true. Many woo-woos, yourself included tend to ignore the gross errors, in the forlorn assumption that somehow your favourite prophet had something of value to offer. It's quite common in most beleivers in any form of religion. Which is, of course an unbiased, complete picture. riiiigggghhhhttt. I always wonder why these claims are not verifiable (yes, I tried a few years ago) Oh, for jesus sake, give us a break! Prophets ALWAYS predict disasters, stock market crashes, and when these things happen, as they ALWAYS do, (or come close), they claim a hit. What's better, is that they don't actually have to do all the hard work claiming the hit, because they bleating of their followers does all the work for them. Yes, and lots of vague prognostications get made by lots of prophets. Can you think critically for a minute? If you make enough vague guesses, you always get a hit. Jees. I've done it too. The difference is, I know I'm, not a prophet. I love this stuff: Martin Gardner cites Cayce's reading of Cayce's own wife as an example. The woman was suffering from tuberculosis: .... from the head, pains along through the body from the second, fifth and sixth dorsals, and from the first and second lumbar...tie-ups here, floating lesions, or lateral lesions, in the muscular and nerve fibers which supply the lower end of the lung and the diaphragm...in conjunction with the sympathetic nerve of the solar plexus, coming in conjunction with the solar plexus at the end of the stomach.... The fact that Cayce mentions the lung is taken by his followers as evidence of a correct diagnosis; it counts as a psychic hit. But what about the incorrect diagnoses: dorsals, lumbar, floating lesions, solar plexus and stomach? Why aren't those counted as diagnostic misses? And why did Cayce recommend osteopathic treatment for people with tuberculosis, epilepsy and cancer? Which as far as I'm concerned, shows just what a fraud he was. -- Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult: http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down. ==== Monks and sex LOL . :-)) A subject for a thread? -- Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult: http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down. ==== Funny thing is, never seen an assessment of Nostradamus in a scientific journal, either. I suppose it's not 'respectable'. -- Peter ==== But what, exactly, is the source of this story? It's certainly told in an anecdotal manner. Are any of the doctors' records available or quoted? This is a figure given by his sons (not exactly an unbiased source). Where did they get their figure? What is it based on? True--Cayce probably never heard back from any of his patients who died. Well, you keep saying things like this, but your sources hardly seem to me to be unbiasted or clinical. After all, the book you use as your source was written by Cayce's own sons. I haven't seen it: is it as anecdotal as the story about Gertrude? Lots of ways to account for that. For instance, many diseases simply run their course and the patient gets better (after all, much of what conventional doctors do is to simply make their patients comfortable while this happens, and make sure that more serious complications don't develop). Many of these cures may also have been cases of spontaneous remission. Etc. etc. Hardly. RM ==== Since what has been shown about it is that it doesn't work, how can you think it's not a con? No one has yet. On the other hand, every test it has been put to, it has failed. All it takes is someone to examine it under so-called scientific conditions, Don't be silly. The conditions of Randi's tests are agreed to in advance. If the dowser doesn't like them, he or she has every chance to say so before the test even starts. This is an important part of Randi's conditions. What happens (of course) is that, after the fact, the dowser starts whining about the conditions being all wrong or negative vibrations. Right. RM ==== On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:17:46 -0500, Ron Miller As, of course, applies in the case of the conventional doctors, too... -- Peter ==== As I just pointed out. The difference being, however, that most doctors don't try to ascribe these as miracles. RM ==== Let's face it. There're all just playing catch-ups with the Edgar Cayce readings. Once you've admitted that Cayce's readings are the most complete, accurate and reliable records on the prehistoric world, then, and only then, will you begin to appreciate the true extent and veracity of his readings on Atlantis etc. Meanwhile, you'll just continue to mock Edgar Cayce, and the prophets, just as your kind always has. http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=X5EH75IX37258.4504861111@anonymous.post er iQA/AwUBPG8EGZljD7YrHM/nEQIT2QCg2xYYaxK60gar/iKEF50Ep1vRa8UAoMQ0 X+QtxmUEXaNzgHAozTw4Pm4h =BMCz Astro-Charts of Daniel Joseph Min: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=23XT09HB37303.0758680556@frog.gilgamesh .org ==== That's bullshit, and if you don't know it you're certifiable. Yeah right, like the Atlantis that was supposed to have risen now? Hah! You mean the rational kind? What about your kind, the obnoxious fools, who continue to mock decent sensibility with their foolish and failed prophecies? What's the count now, Min - how many times has the world ended, per your funky prophecies? Haven't you predicted at least 4 of the last 0 Apocalypses? I predict you're such an egomaniac you won't stop morphing to let the world live in peace without the mosquito-whine annoyance of your ridiculous postings. Let me see, that makes the score: Richard 1-1, Min 0-4. Prove me wrong! (You know you can't.) Oh, and I removed sci.astro out of courtesy, because they've told you so many times that your garbage is off-topic there. (Is there an alt.bonehead.min group yet? That's the only place your offal wouldn't be off-topic, come to think of it.) I dare you to show a little courtesy, I dare you. -- Richard http://www.astropro.com/ NetPager = http://wwp.mirabilis.com/1710868 phone/fax = 480-753-6261 Astrology is about time . . . what else is there? ==== continue What's the prophecies? world live in Let me see, can't.) many times yet? it.) I dare So Edgar Cayce is a chump huh? Jo What am I gonna do with all those stupid books? ==== Loan them to friends... I guarantee you'll never see them again! ;) ==== Please forgive me, for I'm just a little squirrel monkey and don't really know much about the ways of you higher primates, but could you feed them to your fellow chumps? -- Steve Tyler, Junior Primate. For a picture of me at work see: http://www.emory.edu/WHSC/YERKES/images/squirrelmonkey.jpeg (That's pretty hard for the bigger chumps to do you know!) For my employer see: Yerkes Regional Primate Research Center http://www.emory.edu/WHSC/YERKES/ . . . ==== That's a big if. Why would anyone admit those things without any proof or evidence that they are so? What you are saying is that once you've admitted that one unsupported supposition is true, another unsupported supposition must also be true. I don't think so. It's like saying, Once you've admitted that everything in the Bugs Bunny cartoons are the most complete, accurate and reliable records of the 20th century, etc. etc. R ==== THE SETI STAR MAPS: http://www.memorybankinc.com/SETI.htm ==== Pecos, Texas--This sleepy, backwater Texas Town has become the site of an ultrasecret government clone-breeding program. And 80 members of one 'model' alone quietly reside in the area. 'Despite its claims to the contrary, the U.S. leads the world in cloning research--government scientists cloned the first human in 1973. Take a drive through Pecos and it won't take long for you to see what I mean. 'You'll see a guy pumping your gas, then when you go to the diner for a hamburger, the 'same' guy will be behind the counter. 'Walk into the police station, there he'll be again, sitting behind a desk reading the funny papers and giving you a big smile like he's never seen you before in his life.' Banding claims the sinister-sounding project was initiated during the Cold War, when Russia and America were racing to outdo each other in create a perfect soldier, then churn out thousands of duplicates. The researcher claims there are now at least seven different 'models'in clones. 'The government still believes that cloning is the key to the future of our nation.' æææææ[Capi talEHat]ææææ[CapitalEHat ]æææææ[Capi talEHat]ææææ[CapitalEHat ]æææææ[Capi talEHat]ææææ[CapitalEHat ]æææææ[Capi talEHat]ææææ[CapitalEHat ]ææSue http://community.webtv.net/mapa7/SuesNews http://community.webtv.net/mapa7/SuesNews ==== I've been in town like that. I always assumed it was due to in-breeding. Jochen -- ------------------------------------------------- Margaret or Jochen Lueg tudor@argonet.co.uk http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/tudor ==== Oh, great, another WEBTV message.... ************************* On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 21:27:49 -0600 (CST), mapa7@webtv.net (Sue's ==== Well to answer your question he has only made some comments that any thinking person knows to be wrong by their own observations.. Such as the Milkyway and constelations moving about radically. Everyone knows they have been where they have always been for all of thier lives they have looked up at varios constellations all thier lives and they are still there. Other then that he has only said other peoples explanations are wrong the Sun is not lit by sunlight fro example, but he provides no other explanation even when challenged to do so. Personally it is our constant posting challenging him to explain that he adores he says this stuff cause he wants to see posts about himself he wants the attention and we all provide it. from the stand point of being here ot make sure his incorrect statements are not believed by a Newby ... I do not think anyone trusts just one source of information at least I do not. I'm sure most others do not either. My opinion would be to ignore him and eventually he will go away cause the game is no longer any fun. ==== Honestly, how many people do you suppose are seeking the opinion of someone posting as Me ? Just curious ... -- Steve Tyler ==== Yes I agree that NASA did not inform the masses about the inventions the stuff needed to get to the moon , and lets not forget one important thing that the space program gave us .. well you are all using it . Small computers if it was not for the need to make things small and compact and light weight who knows we all might be using room sized computers. One thing I do not regret is the money spent on the space program we are all richer for it. <3C61AF04.4DFF8FF0@attbi.com> ==== Actually it was a CASH REGISTER CO that contracted with Intel to produce a small computer chipset... the famous i4004, that started the computer revolution. Its competition and the game industry that has made it available to all! Hans ==== I heard David J. Smith discussing the so called Planet X. Seems it was detected in 2000 by observing a slight wobble or distortion in the orbits of Pluto, Neptune and Jupiter, but it was not seen. First time seen was supposedly May 2001 and was named 2001 KX76 - so for research you may want to look that up. He has two audio tapes of his messages that he will sell for $18. If you have Visa or MC you can call 1-800-516-8736 for those tapes. He referenced the Dec. 31 - Jan 7, 2002 available. Check with your librarian! Bro. Stair is the one I heard, at least twice, telling of the earth's poles shifting 90 degrees in an hour and average wind speeds of 200 MPH. He was probably reading from someone else's material but I didn't hear him give credit - he seldom does. Chances are folks send him stuff fact that a 90 degree shift would involve over 6000 miles and probably involve 10,000 mph winds if it happened in an hour -- allowing for acceleration and deceleration times. He didn't respond, but I didn't send a offering either. There is something out there but the effects on the earth, if any, are yet to be determined. It was declared to be a planet and was given its 2001 KX76 name about May 2001 or shortly thereafter. I have not seen it - just passing along info! ...But we all might by sometimes next year. ;-) Al -- All I know is what I read in the paper! Will Rogers, OK, who had an airport named after him. ==== This week's 11x14 $10 photo special is the Hubble Saturn image. Printed from a 24 megabyte source file. See other great images from earth-based and space-based observatory archives at http://www.skyimagelab.com. Available as a hi-res photographic image, matted, or framed. And...just added. Space and Astronomy Stamps. We will soon send out a catalog. Be sure to request one while visiting us. alt.astronomy,sci.astro.amateur,uk.sci.astronomy -- Sky Image Lab Saratoga, CA 95070 +1 (408) 741-5577 http://www.skyimagelab.com ==== they're what you call it when a really stupid idiot (like this guy) understands things in a way smart people don't - yet. Like the blind being able to see, something like that. Yes, the blind can see. ==== Is Planck space different than macro space? Is macro space different ==== On 3 Feb 2002 13:42:18 -0800, michlou@netzero.net (ThunderTroll) Please ,Please stop LOL .. sorry I can not stop laughing .. news Flash TT One of my most Favorite WINTER constellatioins when I was a boy was Orion and gee I lived in Northern Hemisphere... and that was oh 30 Plus years ago. I guess I must have been mistaken where I was huh? or I was seeing things, yes that is it I was halucinating . LOL I swear some people do not have a clue .. actually when ya think about it its pretty sad. ==== On 16 Feb 2002 00:49:15 -0000, Astro Nomikon SPAMMED in the hopes of attracting gullible and foolish people to gather round his cell and toss money his way...... Beginner's Reference: FOR THE TRULY GULLIBLE WHO BELIEVE WHAT I POST AND SPAM FORTH IN A CONSTANT BARRAGE.... SO THERE IS NO CHANCE FOR ERROR and THUS IT LOOKS AS IF I ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT IS BEING DONE ==== Still nothing but a bunch of bull shit. Totaly 100% Useless. -- 2,500,000 tons of steel, spining all alone in the Dark ... The Place is Babylon 5 www.starlords.org ==== On 15 Feb 2002 11:55:25 -0800, thorsdayus@yahoo.com KINDLY DOCUMENT your assertion that Hawking is a plagiarizer. Kindly provide specifics. As for your comments about the asteroids, please indicate where you published anything relevant about such. Kindly document. ---Mac ==== Why don't you try Cartes du Ciel, or in English, Sky Charts 2.71 I have found it pretty easy to use, accurate and, being freeware, downright inexpensive! It seems to have all the bells and whistles that I hear the other programs have. ==== Depends what you want to use it for. If you're after a charting program with an intergrated logbook I would go for SkyMap Pro, on the other hand if you want to do 'arm chair astronomy' via a planetarium program then get Starry Night. ==== Exactly. It's not a choice, because you are comparing two fine programs used for different purposes. Apples and oranges. But if you want to compare charting programs look for the free ones, too, such as Cartes du In message , Rob Pollard -- ==== Another free virtual planetarium : http://winstars.free.fr/english Franck vItb8.4206$a17.27321444@newsserver.ip.pt... ==== Oh, yes!! See if AGENT can use what you are coming up with. Definitely interested. ---Mac ****************************************** ==== Another set of references to the original measurements made by the USNO http://ad.usno.navy.mil/pub/pub_astpapers.html Astronomical Papers Prepared For The Use Of The American Ephemeris And Nautical Almanac. Published By The Nautical Almanac Office, U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, D.C. V.1 No.3 1882 Michelson, Albert A. Experimental Determination Of The Velocity Of Light Made At The United States Naval Academy, Annapolis. V,2 No.3 1891 Newcomb, Simon Measures Of The Velocity Of Light Made Under The Direction Of The Secretary Of The Navy During The Years 1880 - 1882. V.2 No.4 1891 Michelson, Albert A. Supplementary Measures Of The Velocities Of White And Colored Light In Air, Water, And Carbon Disulphide, Made With The Aid Of The Bache Fund Of The National Academy Of Sciences. See also http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~avery/course/3400/f2001/lectures/velocitylight.pdf Len ==== Yeah, it's frustrating finding scientific papers online. However, a search for the title at www.google.com easily found it. http://www.setterfield.org/report/report.html Now how can you be sure it was peer reviewed? And for anyone wondering about the author's credentials and motives see: A BRIEF BIOGRAPHY http://www.setterfield.org/bio.html Here is a vigorous rebuttal: The Decay of c-decay http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/c-decay.html -- Steve Tyler ==== These are all from the *19th* century. Measurement technology has improved considerably in the last 100 years. Scientists now have available many new technologies, including: *lasers* *atomic clocks* *satellites* *computers* BTW, the length of the meter is now *defined* in terms of the speed of light. http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/current.html -- Steve Tyler ==== If Min would just stick to one posting name so he would stay neatly in a killfile, nobody would care. As it is, his stars impel him to great pain and a long period of inactivity as all his broken fingers heal. -- http://home.teleport.com/~larryc ==== ********************* You are not being completely truthful. The problem with Daniel Joseph Min (well, just one of the problems) is that he lacks the courtesy to use just one set parameter so that many who consider his postings to be rude, inappropriate for a specific Newsgroup, etc., etc., can simply kill-file him and not be bothered and not impose upon others who might wish to read him. HOWEVER, this Daniel Joseph Min lacks consideration and courtesy and is impelled to force himself upon others and to astrology have also inquired for customers. As others have no doubt indicated, if Daniel Joseph Min had any degree of courtesy or any responsibility he would not have violated so many ISP and now be compelled to hide behind ReMailer systems so he can continue spamming. If he had any integrity he would use one set name, etc., rather than mutating his name several times per day to post anywhere up to a dozen posts per be ignored by many... and that, to this creature calling itself Daniel Joseph Min is the crux of the matter. ---Mac ==== Wrong totaly 100% wrong. The moon is moving away from the Earth. And the Earth has not changed, sometime in the far future it Might move outward, but that's not even a sure thing at this time. -- 2,500,000 tons of steel, spining all alone in the Dark ... The Place is Babylon 5 www.starlords.org following factors: the moon moves away from the earth - how big is this effect ? changing with helium? get ==== UK Home Secretary David Blunkett has urged people from ethnic minorities to develop what he calls a sense of belonging in Britain. In a newspaper interview, he says racism is often deep-seated and must be confronted, but immigrants who settle here must do their bit to ensure that future generations grow up feeling British. ############################### We have some hope here, first of all its multiculturalism, now feel British, now did not Blair say there was no British as such. Moslems have no intention of integrating, unless we integrate with them in our own land.the Bastards. Blunkett's really on another planet the sop to the conscience of the Nulab softies, is out of his depth he spouts platitudes, with no real conviction, then one as difficulty in believing a blind man we rely on seeing peoples eyes to reinforce honesty and confidence in the person we are listening to. I think Blairs scam in using Blunkett for the sympathy vote is back firing, the man cannot be and is not up to the task, then no is Blair for that matter. ==== Correct Newsgroup? to that British, conviction, firing, --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). ==== We have some hope here, first of all its multiculturalism, now feel British, conviction, ==== Most literally, 2300 contiguous solar days from the death and passion of Jesus-Christ is Julian 1732495 + 2300 = JD 1734795 which is 10 Av 3797 and Sunday 11-Aug-37 AD. This is M. Nostradamus' 3797 by diurnal count, i.e. the primum mobile, tenth heaven, Earth counting by evening-morning. Most literally, 2300 contiguous tropical years from the death and passion of Jesus-Christ, is Julian Day 2572551, 14 Nisan 6091, 22-Apr-2331. This is the mobile, ninth heaven of autumnal & vernal equinox-times (Neptune reigns) counting times evening-morning in the common calendar; evening fall & winter, morning spring & summer. That's 329 years to go counting from this year, 2002 AD, indicating the outermost extent, most gradual end to this transition from the fourth to the fifth empire, much sooner is the rubble. In other words, before Wednesday April 22 2331, the fourth empire will be completely forgotten, utterly consumed, & that's not so long to wait, barely three or four incarnated lifetimes left before the ledger is balanced & the golden age of Saturn by Jupiter reigns for the 1000 years until Shaitan is unchained again in due season. et dixit ei usque ad vesperam and said he all the way until evening et mane duo milia trecenti et and morning two thousand three hundred and mundabitur sanctuarium... will be cleansed the sanctuary... et visio vespere et mane quae and vision of evening and morning which dicta est vera est tu ergo signa is told is verily to be, you therefore seal up visionem quia post dies multos erit the vision, because afterwards days many shall be --interlinear translation by Daniel Joseph Min Below are some excerpts from Young's literal translation of Daniel 8, which is available with all bible books, and translations, on http://www.onlinebible.net/downloads.html 10 yea, it exerteth unto the host of the heavens, and causeth to fall to the earth of the host, and of the stars, and trampleth them down. 11 And unto the prince of the host it exerteth itself, and by it taken away hath been the continual sacrifice, and thrown down the base of his sanctuary. 12 And the host is given up, with the continual sacrifice, through transgression, and it throweth down truth to the earth, and it hath worked, and prospered. 13 'And I hear a certain holy one speaking, and a certain holy one saith to the wonderful numberer who is speaking: Till when is the vision of the continual sacrifice, and of the transgression, an astonishment, to make both sanctuary and host a treading down? 14 And he saith unto me, Till evening-morning two thousand and three hundred, then is the holy place declared right.... 24 and his power hath been mighty, and not by his own power; and wonderful things he destroyeth, and he hath prospered, and wrought, and destroyed mighty ones, and the people of the Holy Ones. 25 'And by his understanding he hath also caused deceit to prosper in his hand, and in his heart he exerteth himself, and by ease he destroyeth many; and against the prince of princes he standeth--and without hand he is broken. 26 And the appearance of the evening and of the morning, that is told, is true; and thou, hide thou the vision, for it is after many days.'--YLT iQA/AwUBPG7WLJljD7YrHM/nEQKNTQCfTdAeOmjK8GiqkKTahULV6OZQpS4AoLol G0FTEnWg1LM6W+EiGgThwSqW =J9OI Astro-Charts Homepage: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=23XT09HB37303.0758680556@frog.gilgamesh .org ==== I seem to remember reading somewhere that fast scopes (F4-F6 etc.) are better for planetary viewing while long scopes (F10-F11 etc) are better for deep-sky observing. Is this true? If so why would this make a difference?? ==== That's exactly backwards. Fast scopes for deepsky, long Focal length for planetary. Fast scopes form a smaller/brighter image good for dim extended objects. Longer fl means larger dimmer images (same diameter objective) which is best for small bright objects like planets. -- David Staup Arlington TX http://flashpages.prodigy.net/dstaup/home1/Page_1x.html ==== In message <3C6FFDD9.743FB1A7@flash.net>, David Staup And it isn't even that simple. If you want to look for planetary nebulae (which are usually very small) you're going to use fairly high magnification. ==== : : I seem to remember reading somewhere that fast scopes (F4-F6 etc.) are : better for planetary viewing while long scopes (F10-F11 etc) are better for : deep-sky observing. Is this true? If so why would this make a difference?? Actually, the longer focal length would be better for all viewing, _IF_ only the tube weren't there. So short focal lengths give a much wider field, which iswhat you want for stars. You can't resolve the disk of a star anyway, and the aperture of the primary mirror determines the light collecting. Newtonians without tubes have been made, and off-axis scopes have a use too, but unless you have a permanent observatory, these are not a good idea. Joe Fischer -- 3 ==== On 3 Feb 2002 04:02:38 -0800, michlou@netzero.net (ThunderTroll) I swear he is pretty funny guy the next thing ya know he will say the earth is flat and that we stay on the surface of the earth cause it sucks ROTFLMAO ==== He choses to be one. ==== On 16 Feb 2002 20:37:55 -0000, Astro Nomik **************************** And that, after all, tells one quite a bit about the creature calling itself Daniel Joseph Min. He is one of the few who deliberately choses to be such a scumbag. Amazing. ---Mac ==== A few weeks ago JudyM posted a Betelguese/Orion teaching program on how to locate stars from Orion's belt. Would someone please post the link to this excellent program for beginner's again. TIA Jim ==== Anyone else recently downloaded the Meade Pictor 7.14 software only to find the Auto Focus option has gone!!! Anyone who can point me in the direction of this very useful option would be apreciated. Mark LT ==== On Sun, 3 Feb 2002 16:01:40 +1000, A. Owen The sunlight reflected from the surface of the moon was quite bright besides try and take a picture of the stars at night from earth .. It requires fast film and a very long shutter openeing to get any usable light to expose the film. Stars are no bright .. Another thing you can do is go out your door and look up to see some stars ... next turn on an outside light or shine a light into your eyes from the side . viola no stars . ==== I have always been interested in astronomy and I have a long term goal to set up my ideal setup which is as follows: by PC software and have the image that comes from the scope displayed on my PC screen. SO in essence I can browse the stars/moon while sitting at my pc (on the cold nights we have here in the UK) As I am a total newbie to all of this, is my 'dream' possible and if so what would I need (just the telescope side of things not the pc). Any advice / recommendations appreciated Zed ==== Does the skylight window open? If not, most of what you'll see is going to be either fuzzy, stretched or distorted in some way. You'd be better off replacing the skylight with one that can be opened most of the way. There are a number of good links which others will most likely post here in record time, to direct you to how to choose a telescope. It all really depends on what you want to look at, and how much light pollution you have to deal with, where you live. If it were my place to remodel, I'd remove the skylight, place an elevated or suspended chair that rotates and slap a rotating dome on that roof . Easy! Oh, and the scope of choice would be a 12 LX200 Meade... but I'm a dreamer... -- Gil eyes to the sky Tennant 43Á 32.348' N / 78Á 34.867' W (Ontario, Canada) astronut@rogers.com to controlled on my my pc so what advice / ==== Starting to look at this interesting subject and would like to know more about the telescopes themselves. What are the advantages/disadvantages between the various types of Scopes i.e. Reflector?Refractor etc. Are there any other types for the amateur. How are magnifications and brightness etc rated particularly how is a Reflector Scopes magnification measured. Any sites or info appreciated. Griff. ==== Generally speaking... With a reflector, you usually get more aperture for your money. Aperture (diameter of the telescope opening) is supremely important - the bigger, the more light you can gather and the more you can see. Refractors will give especially sharp images of planets and moon, but they cost a lot when you get into large aperture. Reflectors usually require periodic alignment (collimation) of the primary and secondary mirrors. Many amateurs choose a newtonian reflector on a dobsonian mount - because it's the cheapest way to get large aperture. Catadioptric telescopes (combination of reflector and refractor) are more expensive than relectors. Their advantage is a compact size - easier to transport. Also give very sharp planetary images. Examples of this kind of scope are Schmidt-Cassegrain and Maksutov-Cassegrain. Usable magnification is a function of focal length and aperture. See here http://www.astronomy.org.nz/journal/1999/oct1999/backtobasics.htm Go to http://telescope.com and read absolutely everything in the Learning Center (top menu) - especially the Equipment Basics section. This site is also a great source for high quality beginner/intermediate telescopes. Choose a reputable brand of telescope. Avoid department store or mall telescopes. Examples of good manufacturers are Celestron, Mead and Orion. An example of a poor manufacturer is 'Tasco'. Good luck& have fun! Jack ==== I've just bought a GX200 and now I'd like to buy a new mount but I'm a little bit undecided among this: GP,GP/DX,EQ5 and EQ6...which do you think fit best with the GX200? ==== On 16 Feb 2002 03:39:06 -0800, thorsdayus@yahoo.com (ThunderTroll) The only reason they came up withe idea is because they can't explain why gravity is so weak. They claim that gravity is spread out across the many universes and all together it is just as strong as the other 3 forces. Hundreds of trillions of other realities is a lot to have to invent just to explain a force that no one really understands anyway. I reckon someone needs to make a sliding machine, huh? ==== And this response proves how determined the mentally handicapped are, to keep everybody else as confused as they are. Unable to understand the simplest things. So they give up, and say the answers are just an invention. Gravity is just a perception of the mind. I wonder if this, is this too hard for them to understand? ==== electron creates a positron at the same time. Nature has mad more universes in pairs than anything else. They are easy to make,and she has infinite room to work with. Like a child I think of this every night before going to sleep. I dream a dream that starts off looking in a mirror.I now know it is not me ,but my parrel universe has every thing almost the same as here on earth. My parrel twin I named Breh,and he is left handed.We came up with a number game that is played like a wegee board.Having lots of problem getting started.It should end up like tick tac toe,but more complicated. If I can make a break through I will ==== Everyone knows that planet x was destroyed long ago. That is where we get our asteroid belt from. (And to those who say there is not enough material to make a planet, in an explosion stuff goes everywhere. Just a small amount would end up in orbit in a belt. The rest would be blasted off into space. ) That is why on most moons and planets in the solar system one side is more heavily cratered than the other. The cratered side was in the path of the debris. I have even heard that Mars was a moon of planet X. The water traces on the surface are from the oceans of planet X being blasted onto it. Mars couldn't hold the water and it sublimed into space. I don't know if Mars was a moon or not, but it makes sense to me. ==== Planets X and Pluto William Graves Hoyt Format: Paperback, 302pp. ISBN: 0816506647 Publisher: University of Arizona Press Unfortunately this is out of print. Hoyt worked at the Lowell Observatory. http://www.lowell.edu/Research/library/paper/wg_hoyt.html -- Steve Tyler ==== This makes almost as much sense as the other Planet X theory. Where in the world do you get this stuff? RM ==== can you please provide a mechanism whereby planets explode? -- Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult: http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down. ==== Jehova's Witness Publication-The Watchtower ==== Are you serious? R ==== An extremely high speed meteor would do it if it was large enough. A large body passing close by could break a planet into pieces like shoemaker levy. We have no way of knowing if a brown dwarf passed through the soloar system hundreds of millions of years ago. If you want to really go out on a limb, planet X could have had intelligent life on it and they made a doomsday machine. I wasn't there, I don't know. I didn't get any of my info from that cult of Jehova witnesses either. I thought it up on my own. Can YOU explain why a great many of the objects in this solar system have many more craters on one side than the other? How could Mars have had so much water if there is nearly none there now? I hear astronomers claim that Mars had a nearly world-wide flood at one time. They poopoo the idea of the same thing happening on Earth yet there is more than enough water to cover the entire planet here now. Where would Mars get that much water only to loose it? Why is there debris where a planet should be? Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter are all at the right place. But between Mars and Jupiter there is no planet where one should be. There is instead debris. No one was here back then so any theory is exactly as valid as the next one. Ookie <3c6dbb13.280411555@news-server.carolina.rr.com> <6unr6u40he6sb0urv07u4mcanrvgm5me7l@4ax.com> <3c6f1fbe.2846854@news-server.carolina.rr.com> ==== In message <3c6f1fbe.2846854@news-server.carolina.rr.com>, Ookie To take your last point first, that's the classic creationist argument and it doesn't hold water. Only theories which fit the facts are valid. Most of your other arguments have been proposed by Tom van Flandern, who probably coined the phrase exploding planet hypothesis (EPH). We do have a way of showing that a brown dwarf has never passed through the solar system - we are still here, and the planets are in stable, more-or-less circular, commensurate orbits. Mars lost its atmosphere and water because it has low gravity and no magnetic field to protect it from the solar wind. ==== I think that's pretty apparent. There are other reasons. Think about what I believe you're suggesting: that the cratered sides all face the direction of the exploded planet (that is what you're suggesting, isn't it?). But all of these planets and moons rotate, presenting their heavily-cratered sides and lightly-cratered sides to every part of the solar system. Besides, this dichotomy is not universal--it is a feature of only some worlds. Why just those and not every body in the solar system? Look it up, for heaven's sake. Astronomers go into considerable detail about the mechanisms by which Mars lost its original water. Why should one be there? Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter are all at the right place. But between Are you perhaps taking Bode's Law a little too literally? Not so. A viable theory still has to work within known mechanisms of planetary science. RM ==== I've used an 80A (not sure if that's a moon filter or not) on Jupiter to heighten the contrast on the GRS and the EBs. I had better contrast in my 8 Sky-Watcher Dob than what I saw in an associate's 16 Dob. The only other filter I have at the moment is a ND4 for light reduction. I pull it out to use on a FULL/BRIGHT moon. Although I prefer the 80A to increase the contrast during other lunar phases. I could see some benefit to using LPR filters in mixed lighting conditions or for specific effects in imaging, but for the most part, too many filters is simply going to spoil the broth . -- Gil eyes to the sky Tennant 43Á 32.348' N / 78Á 34.867' W (Ontario, Canada) astronut@rogers.com able to though. light people there just of ==== Sean, Right you are. Now I remember the owner of the telescope shop who sold me the ND4, and it was that filter that I am suppose to relate moon to... thanks! -- Gil eyes to the sky Tennant 43Á 32.348' N / 78Á 34.867' W (Ontario, Canada) astronut@rogers.com usually neutral all used to certain is wavelength only a ==== If you live in a light polluted area, I would agree that most filters (not all of them) are next to useless. On the other hand, if your skies are dark, the right filters will open new doors. For openers, try an Orion UltraBlock, particularly if you like to view DSOs. Al ==== -- Gil eyes to the sky Tennant 43Á 32.348' N / 78Á 34.867' W (Ontario, Canada) astronut@rogers.com (not are Orion Comments: This message probably did not originate from the above address. ==== Progression is one and global. Transits are to the meridian of longitude where you are standing. For further info, see: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=23XT09HB37303.0758680556@frog.gilgamesh . org iQA/AwUBPG3kNJljD7YrHM/nEQIRnACeNrpKdeArLwbfQJI+s3twDqqc6xIAn2g5 a7yGxePqDZbLj3Tc3fJp/cad =R7he ==== On 4 Feb 2002 16:19:11 -0800, michlou@netzero.net (ThunderTroll) Oh and your theory is ????? Lets see I have heard some of your dribble . it is made up of Luminious green cheese . It is lit by a huge canlde and the man in the moon lights it each night.. It is Radioactive and glows on its own like a watch dial. am I getting close Moron ??? Take a look at it . explain why you can see shadows . in the exact place if it were lit by the sun ? next thing you will say that there is no sun .. that is really a giant flashlight held by a giant that keeps the universe together .. Nope I'm sorry TT , I think you need to go back and live with your relatives at the zoo and leave the rest of us alone .. ==== Michele: What type of lens? A not too sophisticated solution may be to paint out and opaque the scratch with an opaque paint. Artists oil paints such as those sold by Utrecht have high pigment to stand oil ratios and are highly opaque. The principle being that if light cannot get into the scratch the light cannot be refracted to cause image degradation. The remaining open area of the lens would function as before, and there would be only a tiny loss of light gathering power. Use a Russian sable brush that has a good point. Lens makers used to use a type of black lacquer. I cannot say how that may interact with fluoride or germanium lenses. Ralph Hertle .......................... ==== Doug, Maybe it's been pointed out in this thread by now, but Paul Hodge was able to lower himself enough to write for the joke of a magazine in the March 2002 issue. Take a look at the masthead for the Astronomical Journal to learn who he is. stuffed can't get along? Tom -- Tom Polakis Tempe, AZ Arizona Sky Pages http://www.psiaz.com/polakis/ ==== A radio transmission from outer space that indicates a space alien 'police force' is speeding toward Earth at 93,000 miles per second--that's half the speed of light-- in a do--or--die attempt to bring peace to a planet and civilization that hatred has [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace]torn apart! The aliens will use a number of powerful machines to bring about their plan of universal peace. 'They may use mind-alteing devices to eliminate hatred. They may use force fields to protect our cities. And they may even establish a cosmic prison for evildoers.' [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace] [NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSp ace]S ue http://community.webtv.net/mapa7/SuesNews http://community.webtv.net/mapa7/SuesNews ==== Or maybe they're just interested in the coffee and donuts. ==== Is light slowing down or is the rest of the universe showing its ==== Stuart: I'm not an expert on these matters, and I do suspect an obfuscatory scam that seems markedly similar to the one used by mystic Deconstructionist architects and modern non-objective artists in order to con the customer, and that may be used by some scientists or educators in order to pad the bill or for resume enhancement purposes. I offer these four multiple part questions: 1 Question regarding electromagnetism: What is the stuff in outer space that is electromagnetism? If light, and all EM radiation, is made of photons what is magnetism? How does electromagnetism differ from magnetism? 2 Question regarding light and electromagnetic radiation: With the velocity of light being C at all times, places, respects, and frames of reference, isn't there some sort of a shell game going on in that the axiom of Non-Contradiction is being violated? A velocity must always have a standard dimensional motion as its referent, that is, as a standard of dimensional motion to which the dimensional motion of the observed existent is being compared, and a numerical ratio generated. Which referent is the standard referent for measuring the velocity of light: the emitter, the medium, the photon, or the receiver? It cannot be all four at the same time. Even simple logical arithmetic can tell is that. 3 Question regarding the Doppler effect as applied to the VOL: Is not the measure of time the Earth's angular rotation that is expressed in a numerical ratio to measured travel along a straight line (that is a result of prior standard measurements of the dimensional values of one cc. of water)? That's where we are - on Earth. But the claimed application of the Doppler effect, that is used to justify the Red Shift and even the BB, requires that the velocity of propagation, somewhere in outer space, is the constant frame of reference. In air the motion away of the emitter will produce a lower energy level of propagated waves which in air travel at the VOS. The VOS is always the same in standard air. But then the VOS is not the same with regard to either the emitter or the receiver. Furthermore the standard dimensional motion of some entity must be specified in order to even form the abstract concept of a velocity in some units. A standard reference position must also be stated from which the application of the concept of time may be initiated in order to obtain a specific measurement. Which starting location is used as a standard reference position for use in calculating the VOL? Is not the Doppler Effect inapplicable to the problem of the apparent red shift unless standard time references and referent locations are included in the specification of its proof? 4 Question regarding space: There is, however, nothing in outer space that will support waves of EML. The Doppler Effect in the void of outer space is impossible. Is it not true that there is nothing there through which waves of anything can travel? Therefore, the concept of the application of the Doppler Effect in explaining the apparent red shift is not logically necessary, and is inapplicable. The relationship is merely coincidental, and the proof of the cause of the red shift as a function of the Doppler Effect is merely one of application and not logical and factual necessity. Ralph Hertle ........................................ ==== coin. Both come out of the electrons spinning field.Both share the field equally. If the field is stationary,that is its magnetic moment. If the field is moving that is the electric current. The field is made of photons spinning at C If the field is high in energy it will release a photon,low in energy it will absorbed a photon. All photons leave at C and with the same wave length as received Electron fields can spin clockwise or counter clockwise,and this is what creates their poles and attraction and repulsion. A photon never slows down. It is an illusion created by the photon going a greater distance. It takes light an average 100,000 years to break through the sun's surface after leaving the sun's core,but at no time did it go faster or slower than 'C' A lot of this is my thinking so flame away. ==== Multiple universes aren't so scarey. The explanation is very simple. Existing on different vibrations, is why they can exist in the same place as you, without being felt. They can be tuned into, like different radio stations. And can be heard on radios, that have odd channels. This explains why many people hear about events on the radio, that will draw blank stares from people in this world. One of the most common, is concert events. Or events with a date, that aren't happening in this world, yet. Other worlds exist in future times. Inspirations in this world, are translations of future events. Seeing the future is possible, but it is impossible to tell the exact date that events will happen in this world. It depends on how fast worlds are merged. And how fast worlds are merged depends on every entity. And the event won't happen exactly the same. Always a little different. Very easy to understand so many things now. Ghosts, schizophrenia, psychics. Even multiple personalities. For seperate universes have other you's. That are different people, but the same. And in some universes you are dead. How many have found that strange picture in a drawer, that doesn't seem possible? A picture taken that couldn't have happened. Showing you somewhere you have never been. But were too scared to talk about it. ==== Had an incredible sunrise this morning followed by a beautiful 'ring' around the sun as it peeked through some wispy cirrus clouds. Picture of it here: http://currentsky.com/wx/sun-halo.jpg Clear Skies... Bob Riddle Starwalk, Inc. http://currentsky.com (Lee's Summit, MO) ==== Shame that the picture isn't bigger, that would have made for one of those really special desktop wallpapers that everyone loves looking at. Colin Dawson (Baildon) lat : N53 50 43 long : W01 46 14 news@cdawson.tele2.co.uk around ==== Beautiful! RM ==== Well we know the tallest mountain on Mars is 80,000 feet high,and created by a volcano.We also know Mars is half the size of Earth.What are the best reasons for this? Is the peak of this volcanic cone a way of going back to when Mars was younger? Well gravity force on Mars could be one reason,and not much erosion with such a thin cold atmosphere. Still it is kind of interesting.Venus must have low mountains with that ==== I found the best way was a mixture of 60/40 isopropanol (from the chemist) and surgical cotton whool to apply it. Just dap it, don't rub. Careful with compund lenses, the liquid can seep into the gap. To remove any residue use a spray with distilled water and dab again. (Use the kind of spray bottle used for plants). Seems to work for me. If the lenses are cheap, presumably a bit of rubbing matters not. Jochen -- ------------------------------------------------- Margaret or Jochen Lueg tudor@argonet.co.uk http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/tudor ==== On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:55:18 -0500, Robert-Francois Trudeau I would suggest that you use either a lens pencil or photo lens cleaning solution and tissues. If you mean the 1.5x erector tube, then I would suggest that you don't use it, as it will only make things more unstable. It is really only meant to be used for terrestrial viewing (as the image it produces are the right way up). Using it will degrade the quality of the image, as the light has to pass through even more lenses. I suspect that they are Kellner EPs, 18mm and 9mm, both are usable but don't expect really good images. But then again, the 50mm objective is really only going to offer reasonable views of the Moon (you'll see many of the major features), Jupiter (you may be able to make out the equatorial belts plus its 4 moons) and possibly a very small Saturn, complete with rings (and 1 of its moons). You should be able to make out M42 (in Orion) and see a little of the nebulosity. My 60mm Tasco came with a Kellner 4mm and Huygens 12.5mm EP, a 2.3x Barlow (basically useless with this scope), a 1.5x erector tube (only used for terrestrial use). The 4mm (175x)is almost useless as it takes the optics past their optimum range (125x), the 12.5mm (56x) is more useful. My son now has this scope. I hope this helps a bit? I also started with a Tasco 'cheap' refractor (60mm), but now have got a 250mm (8) F6 Newtonian Reflector, which offers better light gathering and far brighter and sharper images. Martin Overton BTS & ATS Member Arachnophiliac/The Tarantula's Burrow - http://arachnophiliac.com/burrow/home.htm ==== Martin, Omcon is a brand name of Synta (China). They make OTA and eyepieces for Sky-Watcher, among others. You'll also find Omcon Speers Wallers, Erfles, Pl.9assls, Kellners, and ones even lower than that, coming from Synta, under this brand name. Sky Instruments in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada; are the North American importers and distributors of this brand. -- Gil eyes to the sky Tennant 43Á 32.348' N / 78Á 34.867' W (Ontario, Canada) astronut@rogers.com what ==== I guessed that much ;-) Indeed, that is why I thought that they are of Kellner design/construction. I have a similar Tasco scope and one of the EPs supplied was marked K (Kellner) and the other H (Huygens). Martin Overton BTS & ATS Member Arachnophiliac/The Tarantula's Burrow - http://arachnophiliac.com/burrow/home.htm ==== I've seen a number of posts of visiting your local astronomy club for telescope purchase advice. However can you throw so help out for the following. Current state analysis: 1) I am purchasing for my retired father 2) He is not computer literate though is generally quite smart 3) He lives on the coast of Ireland away from cities 4) He has no astronomy experience 5) He wants to gaze upon the stars - just getting the best experience possible 6) Classic tripod, bring a chair experience I assume 7) Automatic help for lining up the telescope would be great (a database of stars) 8) Price range US$ 500 - 1000 I would like to find online sellers, read and understand the specifications. My first 'find' was NexStar 4 and the G8 (http://www.starsafaris.com/selectascope/stpageproduct4.htm). I would like to get some links to other places where I can shop around for products in the same class. thanks! Tim ==== Are you an engineer? ;-) He'll need some astro reference books. I've appended a few titles. The naked eye and binoculars are great tools for gazing upon the stars. Dobs are commonly recommended too. No way! Smart star gazers use star-hopping. :-) But seriously, you can search for usenet threads on GoTo 'scopes at http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search You DO sound like an engineer. :-) Orion (in the US) has a good selection of binoculars and 'scopes. http://www.telescope.com/ See also Phil Harrington's book Star Ware: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pharrington/homepage.htm You don't say where in the world you are! I suggest going to a library or bookstore and Are you planning to send a 'scope or just a gift certificate? -- Steve Tyler === http://www.barnesandnoble.com/ === The National Audubon Society Field Guide to the Night Sky Mark R. Chartrand Wil Tirion A Field Guide to the Stars and Planets Jay M. Pasachoff Wil Tirion Touring the Universe through Binoculars: A Complete Astronomer's Guidebook Phillip S. Harrington Sky Atlas 2000.0 Wil Tirion Roger W. Sinnott Sky Atlas 2000.0 Companion Robert A. Strong Roger W. Sinnott The Cambridge Star Atlas Wil Tirion Norton's Star Atlas and Reference Handbook Ian Ridpath (Editor) Deep-Sky Companion: The Messier Objects Stephen James O'Meara Foreword by David H. Levy Burnham's Celestial Handbook: An Observer's Guide to the Universe beyond the Solar System (3 Volumes) Robert Burnham Herbert A. Luft ==== Software engineer :-) material. I am in Toronto and I thought to ultimately order online but have the telescope delivered to Ireland - though I assume that will cost a bit more. thanks! Tim experience around ==== I'm a newbie, but just taken the plunge into a scope. Hope my comments are useful, abeit not backed up be any experience. OK, forget aboue planitarium software, and concentrate more on books and charts. Besides the Goto scopes cost a small fortune. I'm a computer techie so, can't help here. Nice dark skys, you should be able to see alot more that me. are you sure? He's never looked up before, at night? You'll need a decent tripod then, something of sturdy construction, even the smallest movement of the tripod will have a dramatic effect in the eyepiece. There are goto scopes, it's a little like programming a video recorder. Point the telescope north, level the tube. Then point to a couple more stars and that's it. You'll then be able to call up anything you like from the database. But these will pushup the price of the scope. hmmm, a little low for a goto scope, you should stick to the conventional kind. There are the meade ETX range however. But remember that what you spend on electronics, you can't spend on optics. At the end of the day it's the size of the apperture and the quality of the optics that make the scope worth getting. Simple rule of thumb seems to be don't bother with a scope smaller that about 6. HTH -- Colin Dawson (Baildon) lat : N53 50 43 long : W01 46 14 news@cdawson.tele2.co.uk ==== Don't you believe it! The first thing he needs is some sort of weather machine to drive the clouds away. I live in Northern Ireland and the nights per month with good seeing can be counted on the fingers of one injured hand. Jochen -- ------------------------------------------------- Margaret or Jochen Lueg tudor@argonet.co.uk http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/tudor ==== is there an ez way to setup the mirors in my telescope? tune it for best performance? maybe a web page with instructions? do i just eyeball it? bushnell 4.5 inch 900mm sorry if this is a dumb question and everyone but me knows the answer..... ==== This may or may not be what you are looking, but I figured links from a telescope page would be a good place to start. Therefore, go to http://www.scopereviews.com/ Go all the way to the bottom of the page and hit links. Chances are some of those links will add to other links, etc. I did not check it out -- hey, I got you this far. ;-) Happy hunting. If you find something interesting, pass it along to the rest of us. P.S. Just a thought.... Have you checked with the manufacturer of your equipment to see if they recommend a given procedure? They could even have instructions online. Al -- The truth is hate -- to those who HATE the truth! ==== A great looking links page: http://astronomylinks.com/ Even has an other link directories links page and links on telescope making. Al -- The truth is hate -- to those who HATE the truth! ==== Try this collimation site: http://www.efn.org/~mbartels/tm/collimat.html ==== Fascinating, but how come you and Wally never bothered to respond to my post about Cayce 20 days ago? Rodney ==== A complete fiction. RM ==== On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 21:29:57 -0500, joyce small I don't know, it could be many reasons. I may not have seen it. It may not have had anything that required a response or had anything interesting to say. -- Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult: http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down. ==== lost its nose during the Boar war.It said the British used the sphinx ==== I don't think that dowsing is a con, going from what has been shown about it. I'm sure someone will prove whether there is anything to it. All it takes is someone to examine it under so-called scientific conditions, with a dowser who can work under those conditions - not in a negative way that Randi sets up, but in a neutral way. That program I mentioned, looked at some Tibetan monks who could survive under extreme cold conditions during their meditation - when they were examined in the laboratory and monitored - they weren't performing as they should, but in their normal environment (with a camera crew present) they did what they normally do. Just because something can't be performed in the laboratory, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Harvey wanglese@spbigpondam.net.au says... ==== You keep going on about Randi. Kind of bugs you doesn't it?. Does it occur to you for a single instant that there are skeptic societies all over the world who have tested dowsers, and they ALL FAIL? No, I thought not. You might like to understand that in all cases I've seen, the test is only set up to prevent cheating. Seems no dowsers are able to perform when cheating is eliminated or prevented. and just because you see something on TV, or you have a favourite belief, doesn't make it so. -- Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult: http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down. ==== -- Mixed emotions on pebble. This psychological tendency needs to be eradicated from our species. If they believe they need to take their own lives... we should probably let them. Life is for the living... not the 'waiting and wishing to die'. Hate to see 'good' people go... but these types often evolve into threats against society... demanding that we believe as they do... and quite honestly, we have enough Jean's in the world already. ==== Well, I inadvertently posted it twice so it would have been a little difficult to miss, but it here it is for the third time: Here is my promised reply: > Cayce was a fraud. And it's not Randi that says so. Simple. > > http://www.skepdic.com/cayce.html : Having read both negative (such as this) and plenty of positive on Cayce... : I'm left with one basic conclusion... : Why does anyone take him seriously? He was wrong. Very very often. Many : of his diagnosis cases were so wide-ranging that they HAD to hit on : whatever was causing the problem (and in each case the actual meaning was : rarely discerned until after the actual illness was given later). The case : of his wife's tuberculosis diagnosis is just one of many such examples - if : he even mentions the organs affected, then the bulk of what else he said : (that bears no relation, even to other osteopaths) can be discounted. I'm glad you brought this case up. According to Martin Gardner and Robert Carroll (on http://www.skepdic.com/cayce.html), this is a clear-cut case of Cayce not knowing what he was talking about. But where did they get their information? All of it can be found in the book There Is A River by Thomas Sugrue. Did either do any original research, such as interviewing people who are familiar with the facts of the case? If they had, they might have discovered the following version of events (taken from: http://www.caycegoldengate.com/ec_story1.html ) By late summer, Gertrude's doctor had changed his diagnosis. He called Cayce aside and spoke the awful truth: Gertrude had tuberculosis and was dying. A TB specialist confirmed that nothing further could be done. Everyone expected her to die by the end of the year except her husband. Edgar gave a reading. While in the sleep state, he recommended a combination of prescription drugs as well as filling a charred oak keg with apple brandy. Gertrude was to inhale the fumes to clear up the congestion. Although the doctors claimed that the combination prescription. After following this treatment for only two days, Gertrude was felling better and her fever had fallen. By September she was even better, and by November even her doctors decided she was going to get well. By the first part of January, 1912, Gertrude Cayce was fully recovered. One would think that if the above version of events were false, Gardner, Carroll, or someone else like Randi would have refuted it. Why do you suppose no one has? : Also, for every error of his (and there were quite a few... far more than : his successes) You base that allegation on what? According to his sons' book (The Outer Limits of Edgar Cayce's Power), Cayce's batting average was about 85%. Randi tries to refute this by saying that many of Cayce's failures were probably never reported, but like Gardner and Carroll, he can't be bothered to actually do any research to determine whether his speculation is accurate. : , there was a simple explanation that could of course never be : disproven by it's nature. If the person he diagnosed (for that day) had : been dead for a little while, he was reading the past. If something is not : where is said it will be, then it's something that HAS been there in the : past or WILL be there in the future. Oh, and of course, you have to BELIEVE : in him to be cured... which might explain why the vast majority of people he : attempted cures for didn't get cured - they didn't believe him implicitly. The best evidence is that the vast majority of Cayce's cures worked; see again The Outer Limits of Edgar Cayce's Power. : (note: belief is usually enough in itself - just look at faith healers. : As long as you don't TELL them how it works, it often does work... ditto : placebo's, and one reason why doctors try not to tell you that you'll never : recover from something). So how do you account for cases in which the doctors failed but Cayce succeeded? : Then there's his readings of future events. Where he was vague, people : almost always find something they can tie to within a few years of that : date... it's easy. One experiment I tried was taking a number of his : predictions (namingly, ones people hold as proof) and changed the dates to : random dates within 10 years after the readings. In each case I could find : something to prove that it was right... even after the date was wrong. : (like his mention of a new superweapon - his date of 58 was harder to : reconcile than any of the fake ones I generated). If nothing else, they can : say it happened and was kept secret. But, when he's precise and direct, : he's usually wrong. (China doesn't seem like a christian state to me, three : decades after it hapened). If you believe in free will, forecasting the future is uncertain business even for the best of psychics. But many of Cayce's predictions were, in fact, right on the money. Such as before the stock crash in 1929, when one of his readings categorically told an investor to sell everything, even the box (a high quality stock). Cayce also made investors in Virginia Beach, VA real estate wealthy by accurately forecasting a real estate boom, and he forecast a coming friendship between the US and Russia at a time when relations were at a low point. : I hate simply discounting something... so maybe one of his supporters can : show me the error of my ways. I've just touched the tip of the iceberg above. Almost all of Cayce's readings are available to be viewed at Virginia Beach or can be purchased on CD Rom, and many are available on-line. A number catalog remarkable recoveries from difficult medical conditions. Rodney ==== they One wonders why the monks couldn't stay in their monastery while the scientists observed them there. But I suppose then that all the wires and cameras and observers would STILL prevent the monks from performing as they should. The famous sex researchers, Masters & Johnson, got people to perform SEX while fully wired and watched. Masters and Johnson observed sexual activity in a laboratory setting. They developed tools and techniques for accurately measuring the physical responses of 700 men and women during masturbation and intercourse. http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20011203.html Why can't serene and celibate monks match THAT? Sorry Wally. This started out as a reply to your post, but, as you can see, it ended up as a post about monks and sex. Please forgive me. ;-) -- Steve Tyler Holy Order of the Surrogate Hostess Bless.8fd Be the Wires and the Watchers ==== On Sat, 16 Feb 2002 20:37:59 -0500, joyce small Well it appears the second was the appropriate response. That ius, you had nothing interesting to say. The same reason people used to ring up Miss Cleo. That's One version. Funny thing is, never seen an assessment of Cayce in a scientific journal. I suppose he's not worth the effort. By the way, you can bring up as many positives as you want. Lots of people make whacky predictions, lots of them, in the forlorn hope they will get a hit. Where is Atlantis? Because maybe it's not worth the effort? It happens to be true. Many woo-woos, yourself included tend to ignore the gross errors, in the forlorn assumption that somehow your favourite prophet had something of value to offer. It's quite common in most beleivers in any form of religion. Which is, of course an unbiased, complete picture. riiiigggghhhhttt. I always wonder why these claims are not verifiable (yes, I tried a few years ago) Oh, for jesus sake, give us a break! Prophets ALWAYS predict disasters, stock market crashes, and when these things happen, as they ALWAYS do, (or come close), they claim a hit. What's better, is that they don't actually have to do all the hard work claiming the hit, because they bleating of their followers does all the work for them. Yes, and lots of vague prognostications get made by lots of prophets. Can you think critically for a minute? If you make enough vague guesses, you always get a hit. Jees. I've done it too. The difference is, I know I'm, not a prophet. I love this stuff: Martin Gardner cites Cayce's reading of Cayce's own wife as an example. The woman was suffering from tuberculosis: .... from the head, pains along through the body from the second, fifth and sixth dorsals, and from the first and second lumbar...tie-ups here, floating lesions, or lateral lesions, in the muscular and nerve fibers which supply the lower end of the lung and the diaphragm...in conjunction with the sympathetic nerve of the solar plexus, coming in conjunction with the solar plexus at the end of the stomach.... The fact that Cayce mentions the lung is taken by his followers as evidence of a correct diagnosis; it counts as a psychic hit. But what about the incorrect diagnoses: dorsals, lumbar, floating lesions, solar plexus and stomach? Why aren't those counted as diagnostic misses? And why did Cayce recommend osteopathic treatment for people with tuberculosis, epilepsy and cancer? Which as far as I'm concerned, shows just what a fraud he was. -- Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult: http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down. ==== Monks and sex LOL . :-)) A subject for a thread? -- Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult: http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down. ==== Funny thing is, never seen an assessment of Nostradamus in a scientific journal, either. I suppose it's not 'respectable'. -- Peter ==== But what, exactly, is the source of this story? It's certainly told in an anecdotal manner. Are any of the doctors' records available or quoted? This is a figure given by his sons (not exactly an unbiased source). Where did they get their figure? What is it based on? True--Cayce probably never heard back from any of his patients who died. Well, you keep saying things like this, but your sources hardly seem to me to be unbiasted or clinical. After all, the book you use as your source was written by Cayce's own sons. I haven't seen it: is it as anecdotal as the story about Gertrude? Lots of ways to account for that. For instance, many diseases simply run their course and the patient gets better (after all, much of what conventional doctors do is to simply make their patients comfortable while this happens, and make sure that more serious complications don't develop). Many of these cures may also have been cases of spontaneous remission. Etc. etc. Hardly. RM ==== Since what has been shown about it is that it doesn't work, how can you think it's not a con? No one has yet. On the other hand, every test it has been put to, it has failed. All it takes is someone to examine it under so-called scientific conditions, Don't be silly. The conditions of Randi's tests are agreed to in advance. If the dowser doesn't like them, he or she has every chance to say so before the test even starts. This is an important part of Randi's conditions. What happens (of course) is that, after the fact, the dowser starts whining about the conditions being all wrong or negative vibrations. Right. RM ==== On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:17:46 -0500, Ron Miller As, of course, applies in the case of the conventional doctors, too... -- Peter ==== As I just pointed out. The difference being, however, that most doctors don't try to ascribe these as miracles. RM ==== Let's face it. There're all just playing catch-ups with the Edgar Cayce readings. Once you've admitted that Cayce's readings are the most complete, accurate and reliable records on the prehistoric world, then, and only then, will you begin to appreciate the true extent and veracity of his readings on Atlantis etc. Meanwhile, you'll just continue to mock Edgar Cayce, and the prophets, just as your kind always has. http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=X5EH75IX37258.4504861111@anonymous.post er iQA/AwUBPG8EGZljD7YrHM/nEQIT2QCg2xYYaxK60gar/iKEF50Ep1vRa8UAoMQ0 X+QtxmUEXaNzgHAozTw4Pm4h =BMCz Astro-Charts of Daniel Joseph Min: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=23XT09HB37303.0758680556@frog.gilgamesh .org ==== That's bullshit, and if you don't know it you're certifiable. Yeah right, like the Atlantis that was supposed to have risen now? Hah! You mean the rational kind? What about your kind, the obnoxious fools, who continue to mock decent sensibility with their foolish and failed prophecies? What's the count now, Min - how many times has the world ended, per your funky prophecies? Haven't you predicted at least 4 of the last 0 Apocalypses? I predict you're such an egomaniac you won't stop morphing to let the world live in peace without the mosquito-whine annoyance of your ridiculous postings. Let me see, that makes the score: Richard 1-1, Min 0-4. Prove me wrong! (You know you can't.) Oh, and I removed sci.astro out of courtesy, because they've told you so many times that your garbage is off-topic there. (Is there an alt.bonehead.min group yet? That's the only place your offal wouldn't be off-topic, come to think of it.) I dare you to show a little courtesy, I dare you. -- Richard http://www.astropro.com/ NetPager = http://wwp.mirabilis.com/1710868 phone/fax = 480-753-6261 Astrology is about time . . . what else is there? ==== continue What's the prophecies? world live in Let me see, can't.) many times yet? it.) I dare So Edgar Cayce is a chump huh? Jo What am I gonna do with all those stupid books? ==== Loan them to friends... I guarantee you'll never see them again! ;) ==== Please forgive me, for I'm just a little squirrel monkey and don't really know much about the ways of you higher primates, but could you feed them to your fellow chumps? -- Steve Tyler, Junior Primate. For a picture of me at work see: http://www.emory.edu/WHSC/YERKES/images/squirrelmonkey.jpeg (That's pretty hard for the bigger chumps to do you know!) For my employer see: Yerkes Regional Primate Research Center http://www.emory.edu/WHSC/YERKES/ . . . ==== That's a big if. Why would anyone admit those things without any proof or evidence that they are so? What you are saying is that once you've admitted that one unsupported supposition is true, another unsupported supposition must also be true. I don't think so. It's like saying, Once you've admitted that everything in the Bugs Bunny cartoons are the most complete, accurate and reliable records of the 20th century, etc. etc. R ==== THE SETI STAR MAPS: http://www.memorybankinc.com/SETI.htm ==== Pecos, Texas--This sleepy, backwater Texas Town has become the site of an ultrasecret government clone-breeding program. And 80 members of one 'model' alone quietly reside in the area. 'Despite its claims to the contrary, the U.S. leads the world in cloning research--government scientists cloned the first human in 1973. Take a drive through Pecos and it won't take long for you to see what I mean. 'You'll see a guy pumping your gas, then when you go to the diner for a hamburger, the 'same' guy will be behind the counter. 'Walk into the police station, there he'll be again, sitting behind a desk reading the funny papers and giving you a big smile like he's never seen you before in his life.' Banding claims the sinister-sounding project was initiated during the Cold War, when Russia and America were racing to outdo each other in create a perfect soldier, then churn out thousands of duplicates. The researcher claims there are now at least seven different 'models'in clones. 'The government still believes that cloning is the key to the future of our nation.' æææææ[Capi talEHat]ææææ[CapitalEHat ]æææææ[Capi talEHat]ææææ[CapitalEHat ]æææææ[Capi talEHat]ææææ[CapitalEHat ]æææææ[Capi talEHat]ææææ[CapitalEHat ]ææSue http://community.webtv.net/mapa7/SuesNews http://community.webtv.net/mapa7/SuesNews ==== I've been in town like that. I always assumed it was due to in-breeding. Jochen -- ------------------------------------------------- Margaret or Jochen Lueg tudor@argonet.co.uk http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/tudor ==== Oh, great, another WEBTV message.... ************************* On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 21:27:49 -0600 (CST), mapa7@webtv.net (Sue's ==== Well to answer your question he has only made some comments that any thinking person knows to be wrong by their own observations.. Such as the Milkyway and constelations moving about radically. Everyone knows they have been where they have always been for all of thier lives they have looked up at varios constellations all thier lives and they are still there. Other then that he has only said other peoples explanations are wrong the Sun is not lit by sunlight fro example, but he provides no other explanation even when challenged to do so. Personally it is our constant posting challenging him to explain that he adores he says this stuff cause he wants to see posts about himself he wants the attention and we all provide it. from the stand point of being here ot make sure his incorrect statements are not believed by a Newby ... I do not think anyone trusts just one source of information at least I do not. I'm sure most others do not either. My opinion would be to ignore him and eventually he will go away cause the game is no longer any fun. ==== Honestly, how many people do you suppose are seeking the opinion of someone posting as Me ? Just curious ... -- Steve Tyler ==== Yes I agree that NASA did not inform the masses about the inventions the stuff needed to get to the moon , and lets not forget one important thing that the space program gave us .. well you are all using it . Small computers if it was not for the need to make things small and compact and light weight who knows we all might be using room sized computers. One thing I do not regret is the money spent on the space program we are all richer for it. <3C61AF04.4DFF8FF0@attbi.com> ==== Actually it was a CASH REGISTER CO that contracted with Intel to produce a small computer chipset... the famous i4004, that started the computer revolution. Its competition and the game industry that has made it available to all! Hans === 22:33:17 -0600) ==== I'm looking for something similar, although not quite the same (the general remote directory listing function from the HP48): http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3C879A54.262604A0%40miu.edu Turning back to your request, do you mean print in the sense of displaying to the calc screen, or to a serial printer, or to a text file on a PC, or to a terminal emulator on a PC (such as Hyperterminal), or to HP's portable IR printer? (this last case is a bit harder from the 49G than from the 48 :) To make a list of all variables in the current directory which contain either real numbers or integers, for example, we can start off with this: { 0 28 } TVARS To then perform some commands on each name in that list: 1 << some commands >> DOLIST But choosing some commands would depend on what information we want to see, and also what we mean by print If, for example, we want to actually print out of the serial port, either directly to a serial printer or to a terminal emulator such as Hyperterminal (which in turn can capture all the text it receives directly into a PC text file, which can then in turn be edited, copied, printed, etc.), and if what we want to see printed is both the variable's name and its content, then here's one possible way to do it: << { 0 28 } TVARS 1 << DUP RCL SWAP ->TAG PR1 DROP >> DOLIST >> There's also another, simpler command we could use for printing the variables, which displays in a different style: << { 0 28 } TVARS -38 CF PRVAR >> If, on the other hand, we want to print the name and contents of *every* variable in the current directory (other than HOME), we could do it in a really simple one step fashion, by printing the directory itself as a single object: << PATH RCL PR1 DROP >> Note: Avoid doing this if any variables contain SysRPL/ML programs, which basically are not printable. If we didn't really mean print, but rather wanted to simply scroll through a listing of the entire directory on our screen, we might instead do: << -97 SF PATH RCL SCROLL >> Or if we wanted to show only variables with numeric content: << -97 SF { 0 28 } TVARS 1 << DUP RCL >> DOLIST SCROLL >> Note that the display format, text size, and scrolling ability of the SCROLL command may be modified by its TEXT/GRAPH menu key. Here's yet another variation, which makes a single text string containing a listing of the entire directory: << PATH RCL STD + >> At this point, we can either use EDITB to scroll through this text (which will be found different and perhaps more convenient than the SCROLL command), or if by any chance we are doing this on the emulator in our PC, we can use Edit > Copy String to copy the entire text to our clipboard, from where we may then insert it into our favorite PC text editor or word processor, which finally could even print it. If it's on our real calc, we could even store the text into a variable and transmit it over the cable to our PC. If what you want is none of the above, then at least you have some suggestions as a starting point! It's too bad that the HP48/49 are so difficult and hard to program, isn't it? Luckily, TI is ready to step into the breach and cover the gap left by the soon to be absent HP, and probably no one will even notice :) [r->] [OFF] http://www.mum.edu ==== Is there a way to save the graph Window and Plot Setup parameters for easy recall/restore. Setting up the views I want is very time consuming. I don't like the Zooms the calc uses and would like to create my own or redefine the effect the current ones have. Can I change the effect the Zooms have? danny [33.020N, 96.700W] ==== Catching up...easter is four holidays in Finland. 54 unread messages left. ==== X X sounds good, tastes good - must be good! <5ae5321a.0203270944.60ab7b31@posting.google.com> <5ae5321a.0203301342.772a09a0@posting.google.com> 11:43:49 -0600) ==== You sure are; what you're missing is that there has been no need for any such function on any calculator in the HP series since well over a decade now, and bemoaning its absence is like complaining to Ford Motor Company that it no longer supplies the vitally necessary hand-crank for starting its cars, which a long history of previous models used to come with :) The need for such functions existed when there were nothing but all-identical single-number registers on calculators, requiring two of those registers to specify one complex number, and there was no way of indicating which sort of coordinates any such pair was holding at any given moment. There was also no compiler built into the calc to automatically recognize complex numbers and their syntax directly on input, nor was there any decompiler which could display complex numbers in any desired form on the output screen, all completely automatically, without ever having to manually convert anything back and forth within any calculator registers any longer. Your calculator automatically recognizes different syntax in the text input line for complex numbers in rectangular vs. polar input format, which looks like ( 3 4 ) for rectangular coordinate input or like ( 5 @ 53 ) for polar coordinate input, where by @ I don't mean the ascii at sign, but rather the non-ascii angle symbol character. So your responsibility is just to decide whether to type a space or an angle symbol between the pair of coordinates as you are entering them, and the calculator then *automatically* takes care of converting the polar form for you as it digests what you type -- there's no need whatsoever for you to ever convert anything after you have entered it. For choosing which coordinate format you want to see on output, your responsibility is to state the desired automatic display mode; you can do this via one of the commands RECT, CYLIN or SPHERE (the latter two being both equivalent to polar in the two-dimensional complex plane, being different only when specifying three-dimensional vectors instead, which can be expressed using either none, one, or two angular coordinates). Note that nothing is converted internally as you select different display modes; each re-painting of the stack display simply looks at what sort of coordinates you want to see *displayed* at the moment, and presents it to you in real-time. Isn't that nice? The only legitimate complaint about the newer HP49G, as opposed to the decade-old functionally identical HP48G, is that HP so crammed the keyboard with new editing and algebraic functions that they no longer put the very handy POLAR display-toggling function in the visible default keyboard assignments, nor did they put the angle symbol on the default keyboard either -- but you can yourself *customize* the entire keyboard entirely to your own taste, and you can put those useful functions anywhere you want, in place of any others that you don't use as much as these. For example, if you don't very often use the infinity function above the zero key, you can make it the angle sign key instead, by performing 128 CHR 102.2 ASN just once to set it up. You can also enter and permanently store for yourself two very short, one-line programs for the POLAR and RAD (radian) toggle functions that used to be on the 48G keyboard, and you can assign those functions as well to whatever key positions you'd like to use (there are now eight or more possible assignments per key, where holding down a shift key before pressing another key is now distinguishable from shifting and releasing the shift key first, so that suppplies, oh, maybe 400 or so possible different assignments that can be right on the main keyboard!) Here are those one-line programs again (about the 20th time I've posted them, for ever new waves of newsgroup readers :) RAD toggle: << -17. DUP IF FS? THEN CF ELSE SF END >> POLAR toggle: << -16. DUP IF FS? THEN CF ELSE SF END >> You can name these whatever you'd like (except RAD and POLAR, which are already built-in command names for something else :) and then assign those quoted names to any keyboard locations. Before anyone starts complaining that user key assignments aren't working, I should point out that the entire keyboard itself can be toggled between the default assignments (what's printed on the keyboard) and optional user assignments, the toggler function being left-shift Alpha (labeled USER on the keyboard); when the display says USR at the top, that's when any of *your* assignments will override those that are built-in (if it says 1US then press left-shift USER once more). There are also many other commands which can separate and then re-unite the components of complex numbers and/or vectors; you can even use them to construct the old-style R->P and P->R functions if you want to, and feel more comfortable with them (you will find such functions at the links below, along with further insights that may alter how much need is felt for them). Here's a lot more about these topics: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3B234542.CB2402A%40miu.edu This post includes two different styles of old R->P and P->R: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3B230DDB.942573D%40miu.edu If there's anything else you'd like, seek and you shall find, knock and the door will open, ask and it shall be given, for it's all in there, thanks to a brilliant engineering company, whose star was still shining up there when they designed all this. I hope that as you celebrate Easter at Calvin College, and as you try out what we said above and see for yourself what a wonderfully capable and adaptable little computer it really is, that your spirits will be lifted up and rise to the occasion, and that some of that true wellspring of life's eternal bliss comes to remain ever more permanently in your own awareness every day, so that the things of this manifest world, however they may be found, will be experienced more and more in the light of inner fulfillment, in which glow you neither expect nor find annoyance in any worldly experience. This is what the Son of the Heavenly Father came to Earth to do, to give human kind, if at all possible, the living experience of Heaven on Earth, so that instead of being angry persons ready to open up with guns and bombs and destroy each other's flesh at any provocation, or even to fire off angry complaint at every unexpected turn of events, each person's inner consciousness can be so suffused with peace that you can not become perturbed inside, you can find only peace and joy in every corner of your life, and in this state of consciousness, you can not radiate harmfulness, you can only uplift everyone else with whom you come into contact. This is also the exact same thing that our own university's founder came out of his monk's life to do, some 44 years ago, with knowledge of one of the simplest, most natural and effortless procedures that can exist, by which anyone can directly experience that field of peace that is inside us all, and by regularly doing so, can come to experience everything that is in the clearly common teaching of all the great spiritual teachers and exponents of fullness of life, all throughout history. Heaven is within, and can easily be brought out into each life; don't miss it! http://www.mum.edu http://www.tm.org ==== John H Meyers schrieb: It's there, on ALPHA RS 6. ALPHA RS-hold-6 is the degree sign. =D Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, confuse them. -- Harry S. Truman ==== This is weird, when I try to perform the following operation (-1)^(1/3) like this: 1 +/- 1 3 / y^x I get the answer: (-0.500000000001,.866025403784) What gives? ==== Perhaps this helps: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=es&threadm=95082405521311748%40fatal.com& rnum=5&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Des%26q%3D%255E(1%252F3)%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.s ys.hp48 ==== Yes of course! It s a complex number... It is the same as 0.5 + 0.866025403784*i or 1/2 + 226974/262087*i since you re asking for the root of a negative number... P! ==== In short: You tried to find a solution for X of the equation 'X^3=-1'. This one is a polynominal equation of degree 3 and thus has three solutions, in this case one real and two complex. You get all solutions (with a 49G) by typing 'X^3=-1' SOLVEVX. This gives you a list like {x=... x=... x=-1} with all three solutions (the elipse ... stands for the complex solutions, which the 49 gives you, I was just to lazy to write them down...;)). -- Mathias Habel mathias.habel_no-spam_@t-online.de Remove _no-spam_ before replying ==== bit tricky to open) ==== 1- how to upgrade hp48 programs to hp49g.? 2- i have a problem with my ON button. it doesn't work. to get the calc working i have to nock it hardly. ==== Could it be that I saw a HP-32S II with a keyboard colour scheme as on the HP-48G series (grey/green) instead of the original orange/blue? If yes, when did HP modify the colour scheme? Are there any other upgrades with this? I never saw any HP-32S II with the grey/green colour scheme on the Internet... Arnold ==== Oops, it does work in these apps, but not the answer that you expect. ==== Mathematica gets the (slightly) simpler: 1 Out[1]= Sqrt[2] EllipticE[x, -] 2 Scott -- Scott Hemphill hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu This isn't flying. This is falling, with style. -- Buzz Lightyear ==== Okay, thanks for the answers. Does anyone know why the HP decides to add a t after all of the Xs if it cannot integrate the function though? ==== This a the sign of times for us from HP calculators comunity. Sign that HP comunity is dying. But as we can see there are many people visiting that site, so it is possile conclude that there are many HP users still active. I considere this comunity as a red star, and who know about stars know that it is ahead its middle life when it is red, but will take a long time yet to die. HP itself was the greatest contributor to this, killing its own calculator team last year and closing sites in Latin America. It is obvious to say that the HP users made more for HP calcs that HP itself. I remember an old song from the 1980 that say... river and boat have made more than the fisher My opinion only. CM ==== hi JHM, if you want to hear his voice: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/russell/russell-soundclips.html also, i think you would like this page: http://fly.to/russell click on 'best quotes' and then 'education' :) ==== i have a problem using the hptools i can compile my program without any problem, but when i transfer it to the calc the only thing i get is either a long number or a string i don't have any kind of problems transferring other libs or programs does anyone know which is the wrong step ? what have i done (or not) ) ? If anybody konws how to compile step by step using the hp tools or hp-ide. thanks to all ==== Considering that a linear regression is a stright line like y=mX + b the function generated for a set of points will be also someting like it. Did you already try to make a program that set the value for b=0 ? sincerely, CM ==== Well... After a long week trying to implement the Long Sqrt function... little bit slower than Alg48 cos the internal QDiv (wich is suposed to calculate anything, but try to divide 2 giant ZINTs....) has been replaced by a slower one, but, do the job fine ;] Well I don't know where to put the prog (I don't have any page...) and the HpCalc is closed... Ps2. Well, I'll try to finish the other functions... Ps3. Sorry for the bad english... DanieL ==== Hola!! Acabo de terminar la nueva version del Filer48, ahora viene en 4 diferentes sabores, un par de bugs fueron arreglados y otras caracteristicas fueron mejoradas. mucho gusto te mandare uno de regreso con el paquete Filer48. Saludos, ==== Exactly! :-) -- Bhuvanesh ==== can somebody tell me, how I can check in ML if the status of PORT 0, 1 or 2 has changed, for example, something has been stored or purged in a PORT? Also, is there a way to autorun a program after warmstart without STARTUP? STARTUP is run in a virtual stack, and if I start a BEGIN/UNTIL loop with STARTUP, I«m still inside the virtual stack, which causes some misbehavior when exiting the loop (clearing the stack, crashing if LAST STACK is enabled). I«m using ROM 1.19-6. Greetings Andreas <44ec85ff.0203262351.79a71a14@posting.google.com> <14da3d00.0203270253.12c3f704@posting.google.com> <3CA29574.13F47040@miu.edu> <14da3d00.0203280714.2ec6b8fb@posting.google.com> 20:00:54 -0600) ==== Well, since I had to write my own UserRPL Newton's loop (with FLASHEVAL) to finish the job that ^ZSQRT only started, or optionally use my own initial approximation via xv/, isn't that where in fact ^ZSQRT isn't completing the job? [as of rom version 1.19-6] If so, is this fixable in what we see above? (excuse me for not prying further into it). Here was my UserRPL kluge: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=2953da04.0202271050.c6a0bad%40posting.g oogle.com The larger the original input, the higher the percentage of time consumed within ^IDIV2 (or ^ZDIVext) anyway, so even a UserRPL version should not be terribly inefficient at the moment. What's the relationship between ^ZDIVext and ^RDIVext ? (or, can my UserRPL be made faster by using a different flash function?) If ^ZSQRT can be fixed, then, and was not intended to be unfinished, then it's in the bug category, no? And if so, has it an impact upon any other CAS or Zint functions? [r->] [OFF] ==== Oral sex is the term used for all sexual activities involving the use of the mouth, tongue, etc., to stimulate the sex organs. Done on the genitals of a man (especially the penis), it is technically called fellatio. (The street term for an act of fellatio is blow job.) Done on the genitals of a woman (the vulva and especially the clitoris), it is technically called cunnilingus. Most people usually use euphemisms or slang terms when talking about oral sex. Oral sex has been taboo to a greater or lesser extent in many Western countries jurisdictions. Oral sex is considered a superb method of contraception (birth control), since pregnancy is impossible unless semen (sperm) comes into contact with the vagina or vulva. Many heterosexual people often use oral sex for this reason. Many people find oral sex very pleasurable. In particular, receiving oral sex is for many women one of the better ways or reaching orgasm. Thus oral sex is used for pleasure even when avoiding pregnancy is not a concern. Oral sex can be enjoyed in a wide variety of positions. Normally one partner performs while the other receives, but it can be performed by both parteners at the same time in a sixty-nine position. ==== the a man term for vulva and people countries since vagina sex is partner parteners at That's amazing! I never even heard of that before. I'll go mention it to my wife straight away. :-)) ==== Oh, sorry - what I meant was _not_ about mother tongue but, well - simply: you and I do speak English, don't we?! e.g.. English, French, Spanish, German languages are taught in school! That was my point. Now - how many countries in Europe forces students to learn at least one foreign language - AND which one is THEN the most common spoken language in Europe? asks ==== Try DISPXY. You can specify the position in the screen where you want to display your text. With an easy calculation you can do a right-align ==== [This is far off-topic, and you shouldn't read on if you're antiamericanismophobic. ;-)] As you probably know, Monsanto (?) et al have put sort of a emergency brake into their products, meaning that the plants cannot reproduce. (Of course this is more than just to make sure the plants won't spread in nature. It also ensures that Monsanto will make more money.) Still, a student at the University of Geneva has proven only recently that the modified genes have broken out into nature and are merrily infecting the normal plants. And this is where doubt and proof really comes in. As far as I know, nobody has been able to prove that genetically modified food is either bad or not bad for our health. Would you risk yours? According to your posts, everyone in the US does. I'd rather keep my health, pay slightly higher prices for food marked organically grown (?) and avoid the gentech stuff. However it's not only about each person's health, we also do not know the effect of the new genes on the whole nature yet. Same here, no proof for either point has been made, *but* history tells that things tend to go wrong, e.g. with the rabbits in Australia (was it rabbits? Anyway, you know what I mean). The US have decided to take the risk, the EU has decided to wait and see. Clearly declaring American food as such would not solve the problem. On one hand there's still the risk of an impact on nature, on the other hand I *really* hope there is a difference between American food and American food. I'm afraid I lack the English for a good explanation of this, but you get the point. As a side note, you owe us a proof that the American are actually as healthy as we are. They are at least fatter, er, more horizontally challenged, which is clearly *not* a sign of health, but rather of decadence. And to finally get to the politics: The US have introduced high tolls on steel imports (?) to save their industry. Now the WTO actually provides for this, but only if other countries have suddenly started selling at dumping prices. Why don't you just mark these products NOT AMERICAN and let the market decide?? I have to say, the attitude which the US show in international affairs is quite troubling. (It is even said in Switzerland that every single American shows this, and so do the Englishmen. Generally if one comes here on holidays or whatever, he expects to be able to speak English. While the Swiss will be prepared to speak whichever languages he knows, and many of them speak at least one of English, French and Italian. Currently both English and French are mandatory from the fifth year of school on.) Bush's politics may be called resolute by some, but I'd rather say he's an imperialist. He may accuse the Taleban of violating the Human Rights (which, God beware, I don't deny), but in the very same conflict he neglects the Convention of Geneva (?). I haven't seen Camp X-Ray myself, but I'd say that's also far beyond the Human Rights. One a much smaller scale, there was a story in one of the local newspapers of March 21: The public prosecutor of New York himself came to Zurich in 1992, to negotiate with Marc Rich, wanted in the US for tax fraud and trade with Irak: Rich should've been tried in the US, in exchange for some years of jail. They never agreed on anything, but the important point: This meeting in Switzerland violates the Swiss sovereignty. In the whole Rich affair no American actually cared about it. And the prosecutor in question still hangs up his phone when asked for a comment on this. (If you want to read about this story: Die Weltwoche Nr. 12, March 12 2002, p. 25.) There are many other incidents which tell the same. The invasion of Panama, the Gulf War and the Kyoto protocol, to name a few. And the same happens inside the US: Especially in September 01, Bush critics were not tolerated at all. Instead, what a coincidence, they happened to be sent Islamic extremists, and cover up the story when it finally turned out that the Anthrax actually came from American labs. I don't deny that we're also making mistakes, for example, that Switzerland has turned away many fugitives and sent them to a sure death in World War II. However our banks have paid huge sums to the Jewish World Congress (which, I've been told, would rather keep the money than give it to the actual recievers), and the Bergier Commission has published a number of studies about that topic, both quite a bit due to the pressure from the US. To me it seems as if the American would not care too much about rules (even their own), international agreements or common sense anyway; rather, they're relying on the power of persuasion of things like the strongest economy, the most powerful army or the biggest mouth. Because of the position of the US, the rest of the world has to give way in many cases, but if you think this is right, don't ask where antiamericanism, embargoes, burnt McDonalds and terror are coming from. I wish the American would also, time and again, think about what they're doing and what they've done. Greetings Thomas PS: (?) means I don't know the exact spelling or I don't know the exact english word. It does *not* mean I'm not sure. -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, confuse them. -- Harry S. Truman ==== Small correction: March 21. Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, confuse them. -- Harry S. Truman 07:52:24 -0600) ==== This first prints any numbers which are put on the stack, and later prints any operation (e.g. +) and then its result, which is, after all, what RPN mode means. Quick background for people who never heard of this: 'AlphaENTER' is called every time the Command Line has new text that needs processing, and 'BetaENTER' is called after every keyboard-initiated operation (often both functions need to be called); together, these allow interception of all manual operations, which can be used for printing what's going on, for example, and also for many other useful purposes, such as: Save unlimited Command Line entries (not just four!) HP49: http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3AA768F2.F95FBC2D%40miu.edu HP48: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=6pp3pg%24eel%242%40news.iastate.edu Display and copy programs using Google's Original Format link, to avoid the possibility that some lines might have been combined (causing a problem if there were comments in the listing). Did you know that RPN adding machines were the very first adding machines (mechanical, to begin with), and that they were much more real than algebraic adding machines for a long while, until uppity companies like TI began to foist the latter upon us? All calculators were once RPN: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=59dcb4%2499t%40news.iastate.edu Suppose we have a number already on the stack, and then we press 123 + to add to the previous total. In this case, AlphaENTER is called with 123 on the stack, and only after it completes and the addition is performed is BetaENTER called with + on the stack; as you can see, this gives rise to a slight problem: how do we print the + *before* we print the 123 ? Even worse, suppose we already have two numbers on the stack, say 234 and 123, and then we press only + In this case, AlphaENTER is not called at all, and only BetaENTER is called, with + on the stack; how, then, do we go back and print the + in front of something that was entered way before this? Well, it's not as impossible as first it may seem, but certainly it can be done only if we do everything in 'BetaENTER' and forget about 'AlphaENTER' entirely. That said, now our problem is, how do we find out what had been on the stack *before* the last operation was performed? Sometimes it will have been something which we typed just before we pressed the last function's key, but other times it may have been something sitting on the stack from long before, or just recalled from a variable, or just calculated by a program, so what can we do to cover all these possible cases? Here's where LASTARG comes to the rescue, allowing us to recover all the arguments of the last-executed function in all cases; however, when LASTARG pushes the arguments of the last function back onto the stack, it doesn't tell us how many values it inserted, so we'll have to use DEPTH (comparing stack sizes before and after) to find out. Note: For zero-argument commands and functions, LASTARG still remembers the arguments of some previous command instead; pi is one such no-argument function, for example; the CLEAR command is another, so just ignore any argument(s) displayed with these functions. For 48G/49G, then: << DEPTH -> d << LASTARG DEPTH d - ->LIST REVLIST DUP TAIL IF DUP SIZE THEN LIST-> 1. SWAP START SWAP + PR1 DROP NEXT ELSE DROP END HEAD SWAP DUP SIZE { + SWAP + PR1 DUP } IFT DROP2 DEPTH { = OVER + PR1 DROP } IFT PR1 DROP >> >> 'GbENTER' STO -55. CF -62. SF -63. SF @ Required flag settings So now, after all of Bill Wickes' efforts and dreams, we've turned his beloved HP48/49 back into an HP10 4-function printing calculator :) Well, they also make good door-stops, you know ;-) [r->] [OFF] http://www.hpmuseum.org/10.jpg ==== [snipsnip] Funny how all these problems can be succesfully addressed by just giving more money to education... ...but, nooooo, all goverments give more money to weaponry... <460a25b9.0203281331.ddca9bd@posting.google.com> <3CA5CEEE.FEB35A19@miu.edu> <3CA63B29.51F8EE68@miu.edu> ==== I see your point, but I don't think that just giving more money to education will solve anything, except for how the teachers will finance their Caribbean cruises and such during their long vacations. Our school district doesn't teach phonics to beginning readers. Their logic is that adults (at least those who can read well) read without sounding out the words, so they should teach children to read by sight as they put it; none of that sound it out nonsense. That makes about as much sense as saying that babies should learn to walk and run like adults without going through the stage of giving a good deal of attention to standing up and taking a few tentative steps without falling. They also don't bother with penmanship; I suppose that they expect the children to do all of their writing with a PC. Maybe they should teach keyboarding instead. Also, children are now expected to know the alphabet and be able to count to thirty before they start kindergarten; after all, with a class size of 15 to 20 children, the poor overworked teacher can't be expected to teach all of them the basics. Gosh, I wonder how the nuns ever managed to teach anything at all to my class of 45 to 50 children! It may well be better to home school the children for the first few years, at least until they can read the books and learn on their own without any help from the teachers. Better education would surely help with a great many problems, but I don't think that just throwing more money at it will do any good. -- James ==== James M. Prange escribi.97 en el mensaje What a miserable point of view !! But my english is not good enougth for arguing you... ==== Not really... What I've seen growing up in the US and attending both private and public schools is that class sizes don't matter and that thowing more money at the system ain't going to solve much. The problem with schools today has more with the fact that there are too many over-paid, non-teaching administators and under-paid teachers. The learning environments in the class rooms are also impared by the fact that the biggest disciplinary problems in schools are full-blown felonies (that's what we get for pushing the name of God, moral conduct and the rule of self-respect and law out the process of learning and the quest for truth and knowledge). There are also problems with the fact that more-and-more teachers today have degrees in Education and don't really know a damn thing about the subjects they teach (especially math and science). Also, true learning is motivated by a love of truth and this is not what one generally sees in schools--instead, schools are just mills churning out a smattering of subjects (by people who don't know the subjects) imbued with the modern doctrine polical correctness. It's no wonder why so many young people are turning anti-social and cynical--the world view being shown to them is intrinsically flawed. Gregory Warsewicz-Savage, PE ==== G Savage escribi.97 en el mensaje private non-teaching pushing the also teach who intrinsically I don't belive more money is the solution... this is MORE complicated How many time spends a father with their children? I could see TV messages from Denmark (I think): mean time is 15 minutes a day.