A41 ==== Have anyone used the HP49G emulator on Compaq Ipaq handhelds. Does it work. For which Ipac and what operating system. If not, does it work for any other handheld. Morten ==== How long does it take? For comparison, the TI-89/92+ SkyMap program takes about 35 seconds to do all its calculations. ==== I mean that it is not very realistic to say, for example to a professional creative, that he should learn the programming language with which his/her tools were made, in order to make the tools better. It is enough that the creative has to learn all those things that allow him for example to manipulate images. Albert Graef already provided a link. The comparisons may show that for many things the HP49G is faster. But it is the TI hardware that has the potential to make (efficiently written) software run much more faster in the future. Yes, the HP49G is a great little wonder, but it is a pity to let its built-in software run on such archaic hardware. Somehow they steal its air to breath. I mean *also* RPL. But besides I mean the big number of built-in solvers, the CAS, the flash memory, the way that it interacts with the user, and most of all, the great flexibility and the numberous possibilities to use it and control it. Oh no, tasks that were considered too complicated for any speed a couple on years ago, now run on eveyr desktop. Well, discussions never stay focused on only one thing. (And it is good that way. :) ) Make the hardware faster and the time to complete the task will be shorter. Except of course if we want to examine the movement of sky objects in real time. ;-) ==== Looking at just StarMaHP, the time to plot a skymap depends on my 'watermark' for star brightness. I can get one instantly if I only look at bright stars, or one in a minute (could someone else check this? I'm not being exact.) if I go for the most stars possible. You say all its calculations; what does that mean? StarMaHP has a number of functions and calculations it can make, and a skymap is only one of them. ==== create a program and store as 5A. This will give an error. It is not possible. but. store it as A and rename it to 5A works fine. Bug or feature? I would say both, because I do not like restrictions, like a variable must start with a charakter :-) On the other hand, some programs might have problems with 5A, eg. purge and hide from OT49, while the build in PURGE is working and the build in HIDE is not existing. ==== . In addition: Go to the filer and create a new directory. Name it something that contains blanks. For example My Directory or Here I stored my files. It works. And another addition. The command S~N will make a name out of *any* string. You can even name a variable SIN or some other built-in function. I think that if you do so, then if such variables are in the current path, then they are evaluated instead of the built-in commands. (Is that right?) So you could have a general built-in sine function and a special one (program in a variable named SIN) that only works in particular path. Is there not a possibility to renew the Alarm System in OS to Support an Automatic Virtual Stack invoking It is already used by the system I just hope that JYA would include this possibility in the create alarm inform, if he still can. comments? ==== I found what was wrong with the UNDO and it is now working properly. I sent an updated version to HPCalc.org and it should become available as soon as Eric updates his site. ==== Actually - if your hardware has the keys that wear away (early ID93...) you just need to scap a little bit more and voila! Nearly perfect TI-89 keys are relieved underneath!! AND The same goes with the case colouring: just use a fine sandpaper on it!! You will be suprised !! ==== ==== just bear in mind in most of europe the 48GX is banned on most tests, because of the IR. teachers seem not to realise the limited range of the IR. now my bit to stick up for TI If you want to solve a differential equation on 49G let alone a 48G, press the enter key then go make a coffee and watch the gears spin until the answer eventually appears with hideous constants everywhere that you need eyeball for. I agree RPL is a better language as its way quicker, but bear in mind the TI's speed more than makes up for this. As for the chosen few, My personal view is that a TI-89 and Lars Frederiksen's RPN package is more than a match for a 49G (thats in interface not programming language and add ons). There's lots of (often useful) missing documentation for almost every product that was designed by people who were much more creative than their professional writers :) Too much information, marketers say, also makes a product appear too complicated, so better to keep quiet about it (or hide it in Easter Eggs, which makes the customer feel smarter for having found it himself :) How much explanation can fit in the Flag Browser, anyway? I have an unpublished flag browser which shows much more info, by using a tiny 1-pixel font, but no one seems to take it seriously :) ==== ascending: near 0. Because you would select that mode for series expansions, where h->0. ==== Assumptions are a late addition on the CAS. They are used when the symbolic expressions are not converted into internal format. The quadratic solver was coded a long time ago in internal format for efficiency reason. If you solve parametric equations, the best is probably to switch to complex mode before calling the solver then switch back to real mode. ==== Yes, but not the hidden directory of the calculator. It was rather the hidden directory of my RAM, where I found the silly idea to solve X^2+Y=2 with the calc. ;-) So creative that nobody seems to completely understand what their creations were? Well, I would be glad if at least the important fact, that my assumptions can be thrown over board when I use SOLVE. Well, if not there, then in the manuals. (What manuals?) Did you compress the description text for the flags, or did Rcobo add a mini drive to your HP? ==== Are there any cases where solutions can be found in real mode, but not in complex mode? I mean, what if just leaving the calc in complex mode permanently? Should I fear that perhaps something else prevents the calc from finding a solution? ==== Do you mean the Autoscale check-box in the HP48G Plot application? Or the AUTO command? Or the AUTO Window menu key in the HP49G? Or Zum Zum? Zum Beispiel: http://www.restaurantassociates.com/corp/compinfo.asp http://www.dinestlouis.com/z.html http://www.zum-zum.com ==== There's a good set in Donnelly's HP48 Handbook (2nd Edition) But it's sort of out of print (and pre-dates the HP49G). ISBN 1-879828-04-9 http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/books/handbook.html http://www.addall.com/Browse/Detail/1879828049.html [try this!] http://www.internationalcalculator.com/catalog1.html Claims to have Donnelly's Handbook (which Ed?), PocketBook, and Intro to SysRPL/ML, all at original prices! (and ramcards, AUR, owners manuals... ???) http://shopping.yahoo.com/shop?d=br&id=2065001683&cf=titles&alpha=H ==== And you can't get Donnelly's handbook here, either: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1879828049 Keep in mind *when* it was written: at that time, all the extension messages *were* handled the same way, with the exception of #8h. Don't call it 'pooly written' for ACO's choice to change message handling radically with this version. When I have time aside from other projects of mine, I'll see about fixing it. ---------- http://www.thuban.org ==== nice to see you back here. A lot has been modified and Apart from its buggy $EXTR, several other commands in L1792 need revision, IMHO. The library APPSman got romid 1792 just for one reason: Giving it control on the $EXTPRGs off all other libs since these may cause problems similar to L1792. 1792 is the highest romid for external libs with visibles as you know. This enables LIBman's $EXTPRG to control the other $EXTPRG to some extend. For instance, by simply ignoring them. ==== KF> Keep in mind *when* it was written: at that time, all the extension KF> messages *were* handled the same way, with the exception of #8h. I agree, 1791 really was the first lib to explore the new possibilities provided by the library message handler, so it was pioneering work and provided useful functionality. KF> Don't call it 'pooly written' for ACO's choice to change message KF> handling radically with this version. Well, this is not correct. ACO never said there was a standard usage way for the messages. They did not change anything in the format of the older messages. A warning was that message 8 worked differently. Also, there is the lib id message used with the LIBS menu (but I don't know when this particular message was introduced), which works in an entirely different way. So I do think it was over-optimistic that all messages until #FFh would work in the same way. That said, I do think it would be nice to have a new version of 1791 (different number, maybe) with an optimized and faster EXTPRG. The basic functionality, to use variables to extend all kinds of menu, is very useful. I had made quite some use of it and removed 1791 only reluctantly after it started crashing my calculator. Even considered to write a new version myself. ==== I have uploaded Emacs 1.08. Until it shows up on Eric's site, you can also get it from http://zon.astro.uva.nl/~dominik/hpcalc/emacs/emacs108.zip Changes ======= - New command mode with single-key access to some 50 editing commands, the same commands which are also in the macro language. See the new command 'CmdMd'. AsnEmacs binds it to RightShift & | and ALPHA RightShift & |. - Macro language enriched: filling and centering text, transposition words and lines, case changes, style changes. Some macro control character changes are unfortunately ******************************** *** NOT BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE *** ******************************** Sorry about that, this was necessary to make the CmdMd command work well, which uses the same command table to save memory and to help you stay sane. If you have already programmed macros, check out the following control characters and correct your macros: w W z Z c C k K a e - RPLED is BZ aware. If the corresponding option in the Emacs configuration screen is turned on, RPLED will transparently edit BZ strings and self-expanding programs (like the ones produced with OT49), but not selfexpanding code objects. For recompression after editing, OT49 has to be installed. - Exiting RPLED with a longer press of the ENTER key will give you a choice if you want to compile the source directly. - OBSEL now really selects the object at point, not the word. - In order to make space for 'CmdMd' in the Menu, the HALT command moved to LS CmdMd, and the STK-> command was removed (use the HIST key and the interactive stack to echo from the stack). - The serious TTRM bug with folding when not on a delimiter is fixed. - Several internal optimizations, in particular speedup of indentation. - A few hundred more stack diagrams are in SDIAG. In particular, the ML section contains nibble-by-nibble descriptions of the different object structures. The descriptions are in SDIAG under DOCHAR, DOCODE, etc., hopefully useful for ML programmers. ==== It was written: But practically, if you want your LCD to still work, you'd better not, because some otherwise unused slot 1 card pins were borrowed for connections to the LCD overhead projector accessory (something rumored to exist, but not seen even at the HP museum :) 256K thru 512K cards inserted into slot 1 will not short out any LCD lines, and may sometimes be stable as to which bank you'll see, which is usually *not* the first port you would see were the card plugged into slot 2, but here's a quote from HP48GX project engineer Dave Arnett (not speaking for HP, of course :) ----- Begin quote ----- [excerpts only] If my HP48 is still doing exponents correctly, a 512k device needs address lines 0 through 18. So the bank of the card selected when talking to a 512k card in GX slot 1 depends on where the card controller CE2 in Yorke [CPU] is actually configured in the 512k (1 M Nybble) Saturn bus address space. If the configuration changes, as it does at certain times, then really wierd things can (and apparently do) happen. 256k and 512k cards use address lines which may not be handled correctly during certain processes. What they do depends on what you do, and what your favorite game writer did. The HP48 ocasionally verifies that the contents of the slots are as the Operating Sytem thinks they should be. If the card is doing psychotic bank switches, the OS may well reboot. If anybody is putting a 512k [or 256K?] RAM card in slot 1 and trying to MERGE it, please don't tell me. ----- End quote ----- Here's more from Dave: Cards larger than 128k will not work correctly in card slot 1 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=DLE03L.4Eq%40hpcvra.cv.hp.com That 1996 post of Dave's also tells us a few more interesting facts, relevant to other recent questions, e.g.: A very few card vendors, HP included (Equation Library), tried to be tricky in the way they protected their copyrights: The utilities go looking for the data card without going through the RPL Operating System. If they can't find the data card out in the card space, they assume you are a pirate and stop working. Cards which used this feature, or similar features, will not work in GX card slot 2. Incidentally, since we at HP were guilty of hyper-security, we included almost everything from the [48S] EQ Lib card in the G/GX outright. The periodic table was not included because of its size, but it was rewritten as a stand alone, down-loadable library and is probably available at an FTP site near you. We were unable to reach an acceptable royalty agreement on the Tetris game included in later EQ Lib cards, so that is not available from HP. Caveat emptor :) (1) 32K/128K ONLY [quoting from the back of the HP48GX itself] ==== On the HP97, must the battery pack be good for the calculator to work? I Yes, exactly....thanks, I'll go ahead and try rebuilding the battery pack and see what happens..... ==== expansible. 49G has built in CAS and good features, don't need The last two banks of the 4MB are rather difficult to access but who cares! You still have 3,75MB of easily accessible port memory Though the HP 49G style of giving one huge port that is internally made of 128KB ports is even easier (the flash is made of 64KB blocks) The 48 series have better keys, but I still trade the keys for a 1MB Flash ROM (upgradeable OS) and one MB Flash RAM, not to forget about build.in 256KB User RAM and 256KB expansion RAM Most of us would take a 49G with a decent keyboard any day! Just my 0.04_Euro (inflation gets worse) ==== The only Default or Reserved (numeric) Matrix that I know is SigmaDAT or /GSDAT or EDAT ()(/%ó# Greek letters without global switch to unicode NOW) You can store your 'Tony' Matirx in 'EDAT' BUT just starting Matrix Writer Doesn't work THUS if you use STAT menu (above [ 5 ]) you may edit the SigmaDAT or the Matrix it is referring to ==== Yup. The one solution you get if you evaluate 'TAN(ACOS(3/4)/4)' numerically corresponds to TAN(X)=2*SQRT(2)-SQRT(7), but I thought it looked prettier if it was written: tan(x) = sqrt(8) - sqrt(7). (That way it's obvious that it's a positive number smaller than one.) ==== ==== No marathon races please! The ungrateful greeks would kill you in the end. ;-) Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them. ==== They are not implemented on the HP49, only in the MK 2.23 for the HP48. I didn't provide any information about these calls as their use is extremely limited for a programmer (I don't even use them myself). They return the list of either the current object or the selected object in the form of a string of addresses. It's something like: 5 nibbles for the switching routine and 5 nibbles for the address of the object. I do not recommend to use them as they can change while playing with the filer. ==== For now, IÇll post that on my site, http://move.to/hpkb , in a few days. -- Eduardo M Kalinowski http://move.to/hpkb ==== ==== days. just gave my printout to the printer to get it bound. ;-) ==== Geez, Wolfgang, make a guy feel all warm and cuddly inside! I just reviewed what my lib does (haven't touched the calc in ages), and I don't see any other lib intercepting the messages for anything of the other menus. I wouldn't call my lib obsolete -- merely in need of updating. And the name is spelled Keith. I'll see about fixing the problem with the library numbers. I really wish ACO would have picked a format and stuck to it. ---------- ==== When I try to start it appear the typical message: TRY TO RECOVERY MEMORY?, but whe I press any key the calculator doesnÇt make any thing (even whe I pressed the A key or F key, ON+C, ON+A+F). I tried also, to reset it getting into the back hole a clip. But it didnÇt worked at all. NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING (Please believe to me NOTHING has worked) and IÇm so worried. I think that it occurred, because I was testing some SYSEVALS, but I donÇt remember which one was the number. If you can to help me, I thank you in advance. ==== Yesterday my calculador was unusable. When I try to start it appear the typical message: TRY TO RECOVERY MEMORY?, but whe I press any key the calculator doesnÇt make any thing (even whe I pressed the A key or F key, ON+C, ON+A+F). I tried also, to reset it getting into the back hole a clip. But it didnÇt worked at all. NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING (Please believe to me NOTHING has worked) and IÇm so worried. I think that it occurred, because I was testing some SYSEVALS, but I donÇt remember which one was the number. If you can to help me, I thank you in advance. PD: I want to apologize for my English. ItÇs not my native language. ==== Take the batteries out for a day or two... ==== x^2 + y^2 = 25 y = (25 - x^2)^(1/2) dy/dx = -x(25-x^2)^(-1/2) d/dx(dy/dx) = -(25-x^2)^(-1/2) - (x^2)*(25-x^2)^(-3/2) at (4,3) -(25 - 16) ^ (-1/2) - 16*(25-16)^ (-3/2) - (9) ^(-1/2) - 16 * 9 ^ (-3/2) -1/3 - 16/ ( 3)^3 -1/3 - 16/27 - (25/27) < snip > ==== Last time I miss a meeting! What sort of support can we hope for in the updating of the HP49 rom beyond 1.19-6? Will JYA, BP, et al be wrapping up existing bugs even if they're not employed by HP (I assume not)? ---------- Keith J. Farmer kfarmer@thuban.org http://www.thuban.org ==== newsgroup (I haven't seen you post for a long while--by the way, how have you been?--so I really can't tell if I'm giving you information you already know or not. It seems that members of ACO will not be able to release ROMs because they are not employed by HP. However, there are some rays of hope. There was talk by JYA about GPLing the source of the 49G, but I guess that's still up in the air (if it's not released at Christmas time as a final present from ACO, I doubt we'll see it open source). The bigger hope comes on the CAS side from BP, and I quote from an earlier post in the Well It's Over Then, Goodbye post: Just to tell that the ACO status has no impact on the CAS development, and that the 49 CAS is not dead even if I do only make bug fixes currently. Just be patient ... Since BP wasn't technically ever an HP employee, I guess he can do this, so CAS bugs should be fixed as stated in the quote. Now IIRC, I also read somewhere in some thread (sorry, I guess that's pretty vague :-) JYA saying he can fix the bugs, but he technically can't release a ROM for us. I wonder if he can give it to BP and he can release the ROM (again, this is probably just senseless babble, but I have to wonder if there is a loophole that can help the 49G community out in this ROM-releasing respect). In short, I guess for a while we won't be seeing anything new. But if BP ever gets a chance to develop some more stuff for the CAS, then we should see something, someday. Whether it's worth the wait for you (it is for me; I'm a student, and a calculator enthusiast--I don't use this for anything more than exploration into math and programming) I cannot tell, but I think the 49G is not dead yet. I hope I've given you at least some new news. Rahul Hor216 P.S. As the caretaker of the 49G wishlist, I had been contacting people about programs that they had developed (or were thinking about developing) before this unfortunate ACO incident in hopes of seeing some more good improvements from the user base. I have always wanted to ask you this: one of the items on the wishlist is implementation of symbolic tensor algebra (something that you suggested once--not to me, but I read it in previous posts and thought it was definitely worth putting on the list). If I remember correctly, long ago (perhaps in the late 90's--okay, so it's not that long ago :-) you were thinking about implementing a tensor analysis library (or you had one for the 48 or...?). Are you still interested in the project? If not, would you like sharing your knowledge on the subject so if someone was interested, they could try their hand at it? I'd love to try, but despite being a pretty good undergrad math major, this is definitely not my strong suit. Besides, LongFloat49 is number one on my wishlist and I thought it would be fun (and educational, of course :-) to implement a version for myself as a long-term project--nothing really optimized, but at least something. Anyway, several people would love to see a tensor analysis package for the 49G, so if you ever get really bored, I'm sure people would appreciate anything to further the subject. Sorry for the long digression...nice to see you're still around! At least on the HP-48, many internal programs which use the POL utilities do local bindings *after* POLSaveUI. Some even make more than one binding after POLSaveUI, e.g. one with named LAM's, then one with NULLLAM's. It may work if the LAM's are named. So if you don't want to mess around with counting LAM bindings in your program, it may be easier to do so;-) IMHO, it's generally easier (and more flexible) to use the POL utilities instead of ParOuterLoop, if you want to use additional local bindings and/or other special actions. ==== This is a good post (the answer to my question). I use the technique Werner suggested in the above reply in all my programs now. This is a good way because it avoids any problems with LASTARG, doesn't require a leading tick ('), and it's one of the fastest ROM addresses to reference (I think Mika said that FALSE is actually faster, but I'm not sure). As an example, if you decompile the PLOT command in PowerPlot, you will see this (among other things): ... TRUE FIFTEEN NDUPN DOBIND ==== And in FACT also, using binary integer will be even faster, like #0 #100 FOR I NEXT ==== Or just use the filer to move the library to a port, press ON-C to reboot, then you're set. -- ==== Sorry to be so ignorant, but what is the soft key? Looking at the list of programs in the Home directory, the one I want to install is at the top of the list. Is the instruction interpreted that, I hit one of the keys F1 - F6, etc?? I'm sure once I get this right, the rest will be history (as they say). . ==== The soft keys are the 6 keys near the screen (F1-F6). So you were correct. But Albert's way of doing it is quicker and more pain-free than the way I posted, so you should probably use it. ==== XCELL 48 2.0, one of the best spreadsheet library for the 48, is now available for the HP49G. You can find XCELL at www.hpcalc.org . ==== I found Adrian Drury's command reference at http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~drury/hp48gaur/ and it is excelent. However for experienced programmers who are new User RPL it can be quite difficult finding the exact command. Is there a command list or refernece that list the commands by type with perhaps a one liner description. Sort of like a quick reference guide. ==== Well, the UserRPL debugger is not really designed to debug SysRPL program. I've added some options so you could debug a bit more of it than with the HP48G, but it's still very incomplete in comparison to Jazz... ==== No, it was just that I found that the TI had much problems dealing with 3 variables polynomial GCD, I was just curious to know if it could deal with computing a relatively large degree 2-var GCD. But maybe after factoring out the content of the polynomial they first try every time some small ints like 1 as potential root. ==== EXPAND is like EVAL it does rational simplification + square roots. SIMPLIFY tries to rewrite the expression with less variables before (e.g. if there are sin/cos of the same angle). ==== .. I'd be interested to know what kinds of polynomials it has trouble with (examples?) It's unfortunate that we don't have access to the internal PolyGCD routine. ==== No, it is possible, but you need a special version of either XSEND or SEND, the file's header for the HP39/40 is different than the one used by the HP49 and the HP39 will always discard such object. There's a version of XSEND to transfer file from the HP48 to the HP38 on my web site: www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/38.html ... As much as I would love to peer over your code, I'm not especially interested in doing so right now, so I'll just rewrite it: << INPUT OBJ-> EVAL >> 'FOO' STO << Inclin? FOO base? FOO tirant? FOO DUP2 / ->NUM -> Z B Y X << 'Y*(X+2*Z)' ->NUM ancho ->TAG 'Y^2*(X+Z)' ->NUM area ->TAG 'Y*(X+2*(1+Z^2)^.5)' ->NUM peri ->TAG >> >> 'cA' STO << diam? FOO tiram? FOO DUP2 2 * SWAP 1 - / ACOS ->NUM -> D Y Gh << 'D*SIN(Gh)' ->NUM ancho ->TAG 'D^2/8*(2*(PI-Gh)+SIN(2*Gh))' ->NUM area ->TAG 'D*(PI-Gh)' ->NUM peri ->TAG >> >> 'cB' STO << MSGBOX FOO DUP 1. == {DROP cA} {2. == {cB} IFT} IFTE >> OK. In the course of this I noted that your repeated -> calls without the expected ALG or PRG follower are probably the source of any syntax errors. The above is split the way it is for my convenience, but is hopefully helpful to you. Note that I removed a lot of information from the strings, because I wasn't interested in them. Note also that I changed the order of things in 'cA', which should be evident in the order of my variable assigning there. Note, finally, that I haven't tested the above, expect it to work JUST FINE, but there might be obvious typos. ==== , I use Opera 5.11, and I have the same problem. Try with other browser. It works on Iexplorer!!!!It's unbelievable.... :-o ==== Eduardo's instalments. They are very good. Now the next step is?? ==== A soon as you do with user you can star with SYS RPL. You can find Eduardo's book (the best if ever seen in sys rpl programming) at www.hpcalc.org or move.to/hpkb/ ==== Is there a way of toggle between RPN/Algebraic with a quick keystroke? I prefer if it's possible without any additional software. Something like the RS->ENTER for the toggle between abs/approx. numbers. ==== Press MODE +/- ENTER. You might find easier to assign this program to a key of choice: << -95 FC? << SF >> << CF >> IFTE >> or just: << -95 Fl~ >> if WR's OT49 is installed on the calc. ==== setup your eq like this ax+by=c dx+ey=f enter this: [c f] use the matrix editor to enter [[a b] [d e]] press / thats it! ==== You can only do this with linear equations, not with the given set. ==== yes, once i started reading through the thread i realized the subject was not about linears. ==== [ 10:00 11 / 17 / 2031 ] [ UNIVERSITY OF STERLING ] [ SCOTLAND] [ CLASS: CALCULUS III ] [STUDENT ROSTER: Alfred Conrad, Donald..., William Borg, ... ] [ The room full of TIs beeping at each other. Every student is connected to a an equation and the students hurry to solve it in the calculator. The fastest response gets an ovation from the rest of the classmates.] [William sits at the end of the class away from suspicious eyes. When nobody is looking, he pulls the HP49G from his pocket (nervous, sweating a little). He connects his cable to the hub and turns ON the HP49G] [[ Activating system ... ... Detecting presence of TIs on network ... .. ... ... Starting routine packet #001 sent Packet #002 sent 1 ==== ==== With all flags set to defaults... When editing :: < ; @ where < is the location of your cursor, press LSH-{<-->} twice fast. Since all flags are set to default, you'll get two beeps and nothing untoward will happen. If the only change is that you are in RPN mode, you *won't* get two beeps and pressing enter immediately after will give you a nice TTRM. Note: the lack of a space between :: and ; is important, but little else appears to be. LSH-{<-->} is supposed to fold the current secondary. I've done the described many times in various ways to make sure it's repeatable, so hopefully it actually *is* repeatable for you. (For the curious: I backed everything up in preparation for some SysRPLing, and got distracted with learning a bit more about Emacs. Good timing on this bug!) ==== Julian Fondren schreef: There is a bug there. Folding only works when you are on a delimiter. I haven't gotten a TTRM but it did leave some arguments on the stack This is a good one to fix for 1.08 ==== What makes me mad is they use my net name and the title of a program I authored as a subject! ==== I agree it'll be impossible to start from nothing, and considering you'll use a quite fast/modern processor you could use existing pieces of soft I think it's possible to compile linux kernel for Strongarm processors. Don't know anything about XScale, but it could be asked. most problems, but it's quite difficult because some times usb is not only the problem but also windows peripherals (these ones which only work under windows unless you write the necessary software code, which needs internal information about the peripheral). Considering you can choose them, and it's in at least two years time, i don't think it'll be a problem. ==== ==== Just do a loop program with a integer counter in User RPL for both 48 and 49 and see the 48GX makes you think you wasted money buying the 49G. ==== It's not a FACT, it's a FAQ. The HP 48G doesn't have ZINTs, it uses reals. If you rewrite your 49G program using reals, it'll be just as fast as the 48G program. ==== I've downloaded Jack Levy's Organiser10 and transferred it to my 49g. When I look at the home directory, I can see it but have not worked out how to activate the program. Jack's instructions seem quite clear, but due to my lack of experience (first time transfer)and the manual being almost useless, I need some help with the steps below: 2. Press the soft-key associated with the library file (ORG10.LIB). Library 1144: Org... should now be displayed on level1 of the stack. 3. Purge the ORG10.LIB variable, leaving the library on the stack. 4. Enter the port number you want to store the library into. 5. Press STO. 6. Turn the calculator off and then on again or use the ON-C key combination. To access the library, press right-shift-library (2), and then NXT until you see Organ. Press the corresponding soft-key to access the ORG menu. FYI - also own a HP17BII ==== Try having single quotes (' '), then hit the soft key ( 'ORG10.LIB' should be on the stack). Then hit ENTER so you have two copies. Now RCL so that you have Lib.... on level one. SWAP so that you have 'ORG10.LIB' on level one, then PURGE the variable. Now put the number of a port on the stack (0, 1, 2) and STO the lib into that port. Now hit ON-C to reboot. It should be in the libs menu. -Scott ==== i remember Cyrille saying something about a C compiler. (that would be in my opinion, more 'feasible' and less traumatic than a whole new operating system and would provide maybe more joy to our lives ;) ) The HP49G development relies on the unselfished gifts of excellent programmers ( too many to be named). these gifs, which none of us has done anything to earn, offer us not only the oportunity for a richer calculator than ever before but also the oportunity to add to the sum total of the HP49 development by our own contributions, however small. maybe, those on top decide one day to shoot for a C compiler (would require properly made efforts of the cum laude HP gurus and some coordination i guess). (i throw my message in a bottle to the five seas with minimum hope due to the big dark cloud overcasting HP calculators but still with hope) says... ==== I believe both User- and SysRPL creates smaller code sizes than TIBasic, but you're right - now it's pretty much useless to me. Right, so it has served out its life for me. It has lived longer than Java for me for example, which I don't suspect I'll be using much anymore, so that was only 3-4 years. ==== the HP48/49 can be over-simplifying something can lead to disagree with what or wrong. I was just conclusion that he had made. X Just down-scaling the process from 2 mikrons to 0.25 mikrons will give you RPL> yield 64 * and RPL> speed 8 * So the Yorke/Saturn is pre-historic stuff !! Only the 12C has been revised AND I heard that it was deliberately made slow so that the bean counters at Wall Street could believe it still was working hard Try IRR or NPV in 12C and 19BII Oh - if Hell-Pack could only down-scale Saturn process ==== But the graphics (etc.) are so different that you have to learn a new API anyway. ANY structured programming language is ok !! (no goto for a poor end-user programming the thing) ==== Well, with this logic you could then say that the basis of the Saturn ML is the same as the Motorola 68K, the Inter x86 and ARM :) ==== Yes, that's correct, so was the 10BII, nobody would trust the result on these machines if it was computed too fast :) ==== well, I think HP got their marketing wrong. yep they do comparative adversiting saying their calc has this, this this and this. and have an extra tick for the nth root button but in the end of the day, their calculator has ancient hardware. It could be a HP48G with rewritten code to make it faster. I think whoever programmed the 49G did a good job considering they were using a processor that is 15 years old. but i think HP should have got their finger out and got a new processor for the job. saturn is way tooo slow! as for the programming languages, my view is SysRPL is better because it is faster on a slow calc. TI basic is slow but the processor speed makes up for it. These rants about how the Saturn is ancient seem to never end. Do I have to remind you that the MC68000 made its debut in 1979? ( the year I was born ) That's 5 years older than the Saturn. ==== yeah but there is a considerable speed difference. i wasn't aware that the motorola was so old, but given that its a processor that is way quicker than the yorke job. ==== thedemon schrieb im Newsbeitrag to It *is* a HP 48G with rewritten code. (With very well rewritten code, I might add. ;-) What's wrong with that? The HP 48G, after all these years, is still a very good calc. As someone else has already pointed out, the 68010 is ancient hardware as well. I don't really care. Potential buyers take a look at the available features, and decide what they want. You decide for the TI's better speed, that's fine. I prefer good customizability and an on-board functional programming language, so it's the HP for me. And then there's the design (and the coolness factor ;-). ==== I didn't know that, but that makes things even more interesting (why does the 68k outperform the Saturn even though the former is 5 years older?) ==== How can I achieve a UsrRPL program which interupts the execution for an alarm and continues running when the alarm is quiet? ==== I have tried << 74.3 KEYEVAL 94 KEYEVAL..>>.. to start the set time, date.. And I failed to hack SetDA12NoCh, wihout knowing what it does... While surching for material (Eduardos doc, nosy, emacs) I would be happy for hints. potential-Sys-brand-newby ==== AcDcP escreveu nas not222cias de mensagem:9e3ab4b8.0111051513.60330911@posting.google.com... : iÇm sorry if this has been aswered before but does anyone know how to : calculate a limit with two variables in the 49??? ==== Nousiainen schrieb im Newsbeitrag auto-reply with the 49BORG mode option?? With all the 49G bashing recently going on in this group, I've been wondering whether, following the retreat of HP from the calc market, the TIBORGs decided it's time to take over this ng. Actually I'd like to suggest that the my TI 89 is so much faster/better/nicer than your 48/49G type posts should henceforth be labelled with a [TI] prefix to prevent us HP zealots from being drawn over to the dark side. ;-) (Note to the knowledgeable TI users in this ng: I'm just joking; no offense intended! In fact I must admit that my 2nd programmable calc was a TI 59, couldn't afford a HP at that time. ;-) Albert -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== Raymond Hellstern a 216crit dans le message something like ASC (from Erich Rechlin) something like hp48 explorer (from Chris Mumford) Somebody else ? ==== You might find better prices at www.cynox.de Greetings, Marco ==== into RAM? ==== Yes, there exist various small ML programs which do the job. Raymond ==== where do i find such ML progs? ==== Raymond ==== I've just discovered the dbug environment but I have a problem with local variables. I have two bints on the stack, my SysRPL program stores them into two local variables: do stuff.... { LAM n LAM v } BIND :: do some other stuff... ; The program works fine, and debugging is fine too until I SSTv over BIND, then an undefined local name error is generated and debugging is aborted. Where's the mistake? TIA & Greetings, Marco ==== Transfering with Hp Comm... is veeeery slooow. Try with Emu48 (or another emulator you like). It allows transfer with XModem instead Kermit. I hope this helps ==== So does the latest version of HP Comm for the HP39/40 Also, with the HP38,39, 40 you have no other choice than using Kermit as a protocol ==== Is it possible to transfer between 48/9 and 39/40 I've been able to transfer some texts form my 40 to my 48, but I haven't been able to transfer the other way. Is it impossible at all? -- http://193.145.89.239/~rblasco/ Un222os, hermanos linuxeros 640 Kb de memoria son m207s que suficientes (IBM AT Designers - 1982) Bueno, espero que esto no aparezca en la versi227n final (Bill Gates en la presentaci227n de Windows Crash Debug '98) ==== Did you happen to set the comma , as fraction-mark (HP48GX and HP49G) or decimal mark (HP39)? If so, change it back to point before exchanging files with your computer (i.e. comp-> HP). This setting caused me problems to in the past. Regard, Arnold ==== Yeah, but the problem apparently was the file names (bad chars in the file name). Emu48 might help there. Try dragging your file to Emu48, store it into a variable, then transfer the variable from Emu48 to your calc. Hope this helps, Albert -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== I'm trying to make an easy programm for my hidraulics class, but I get some mistakes like Invalid Syntaxis. Here is the code that I've done, it will be really helpul if you tell me the mistakes. Camilo So, here's the code... << PROPIEDADES GEOMETRICAS DE UN CANAL ARTIFICIAL MSGBOX TRAPECIO(1), CIRCULO(2) INPUT OBJ-> EVAL -> UU << CASE 'UU == 1' THEN BASE ? INPUT OBJ-> EVAL -> B TIRANTE ? INPUT OBJ-> EVAL -> Y INCLINACION ? INPUT OBJ-> EVAL -> Z 'B/Y' ->NUM -> X 'Y*(X+2*Z)' ->NUM ANCHO T ->TAG 'Y^2*(X+Z)' ->NUM AREA A ->TAG 'Y*(X+2*(1+Z^2)^0.5)' ->NUM PERIMETRO P ->TAG END 'UU == 2' THEN DIAMETRO ? INPUT OBJ-> EVAL -> D TIRANTE ? INPUT OBJ-> EVAL -> Y 'ACOS (2*Y/D-1)' ->NUM -> Gh 'D*SIN(Gh)' ->NUM ANCHO T ->TAG 'D^2/8*(2*(PI-Gh)+SIN(2*Gh))' ->NUM AREA A ->TAG 'D*(PI-Gh)' ->NUM PERIMETRO P ->TAG END END >> >> ==== Not to be rude Christian, but read some of the previous posts; there is discussion on this very topic and vendor under my previous posts. Stephen does pretty much everything I need it to, but it would be when you can find them. They typically are as much, or more at http://www.uuhome.de/oklotz/index_e.html and they vendor and, if so, has the product performed as it should, ie in particular, SXs, but I'd be happy to hear from anyone ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ==== I swore there use to be a HP49G user Guide in .pdf format on the HP Web Site. Do anyone have a copy? Gary ==== You can download all the user guides at www.hpcalc.org This is the user guide, http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/49g_ug.zip ..the pocket guide, http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/49g_pg.zip and the AUG, http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/49g_aug.zip all in .pdf format Enjoy, Diego.- ==== I bought a Dell Dimension 2100 with Windows Millenium Edition, and also an HP psc 950 printer / fax / scanner / copier (all through Dell). The computer runs perfectly before I install the HP. Then the HP works OK as printer, fax, copier, BUT..... (a) it locks up the computer if I click on the HP toolbox, (b) it makes the computer runs terribly slowly, and (c) it makes the computer stall during shutdown -- this program is not responding, without saying which program. I've tried everything, including (a) sending to HP for the latest drivers (which were identical to the original drivers) (b) formatting the hard drive and reinstalling WinMe. (c) switching to the other USB port. Same thing keeps happening. I'm starting to despair. I would be grately deepful for any assistance. ==== products. Your posting in several groups is not terribly considerate. Try reformatting your hard disk, re-installing Windows ME, or upgrading to Windows XP, and then install your printer software. That sometimes helps. ==== X try to X Do it, please! ==== code me Salut, Monsieur Avenard ! How about releasing the 49G source? Maybe just to the chosen one's? ==== Yesterday at Plaisio (Thessaloniki): While at the counter I notice behind the clerk the usual Casio, Oregon Scientific, etc calcs *BUT* sitting in blue HP stands. I ask the salesman Do you have HP calculators too, or it is just the stands?. He replied We do sir but they are scientific, expensive. (already owner of a 48GX w/ a 1MB RAM card, I tried not to smile). They had a 10BII, a 17BII, a 19BII, a 12C and a 49G on the display. Anyway, their site includes more models. For comparison, a 48G costs 148,56 Euro. http://www.plaisio.gr/IWCatSectionView.process?IWAction=Load&Section_Id= 608&Catalog_Id=7&Merchant_Id=1&pcount=0&sts_cid=3 ==== This isnÇt far from Clemson, SC, isnÇt it? I will be there for a few months beginning mid February - early March. ==== On Sat, 1 Dec 2001 15:37:21 +0200, G. Ilias Not far as the crow flies,but several hundred miles by road. Easiest way to get to Chattanooga is to go through Atlanta Georgia. Harold A. Climer Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy U. Tennessee at Chattanooga ==== Monday morning i will check the stores in Patra. There are numerous, i will try to estimate how many calcs they have. consider it statistics. SACRILEGE!!! HERECY!!! BURN AT THE STAKE!!! oregon? they make calculators? i put oregano in food %-| i beat you, i have a GX with 1M+128K :D Will you come over here for the carnival? We'll have a blast... or we could arrange a meeting somewhere for all greek hp freaks :} will check stores and give you info. Wait for monday gT parse and purge ==== Fabio Croce schrieb programming Fabio, have a look to HP48 documentation http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/programming/ For UserRPN, *this is the starting point for the HP49G. or search on http://www.hpcalc.org Have a look to the Advanced Users Reference AUR or AUG?, which is written for the HP48G but still valid for the HP49G. ..Heiko ==== Take a look at my site, http://move.to/hpkb . -- Your reasoning is excellent -- it's only your basic assumptions that are wrong. Eduardo M Kalinowski http://move.to/hpkb ==== that site just goes to some invalid sports site with lots of pop up windows, annoying!! programming study wrong. ==== Eduardo M Kalinowski schrieb I can confirm the pupup inflation, which ends up in an error404 This works better: http://cgi-bin.spaceports.com/~hpkb/tutorials/index.php ..Heiko ==== windows, Albert -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== buy a ti-89. the ti-89 returns quickly (3 seconds): x=5.40547374293 y=1.59452625707 hth. ---- can ==== Buying a new calculator just to perform a simple calculation is not very practical nor very smart either. Just install SolveSys and you'll be able to solve many non-linear systems of equations. http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/math/numeric/ss49v12.zip http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/math/numeric/ss49docs.zip Diego.- ==== SOLVE2 from SymbToolz 2.0 beta uses 6.7 seconds, so the TI89 wins again :-) This one's pretty easy to solve on the HP49G by hand though (mind you the question was actually for the '48): 2: 'LN(X)-3*LN(Y)=2*LN(2)-LN(3)' 1: 'X+Y=7' 'X' SOLVE SWAP OVER SUBST EXP TEXPAND 'Y' SOLVE (Press 'Yes' if not in approx. mode) EVAL NIP NIP (because you edited the list with down arrow, and found that the third root was the only real one) SWAP OVER SUBST EVAL --> 2: 'Y=1.59452625707' 1: 'X=5.40547374293' Voil207 :-) COLCT and PROOT will do much of the above work on the HP48, but you'll need Erable for TEXPAND (and EXEC). ==== I have an HP48GX and HP49G, and recently got a SiPix A6 pocket printer. This printer has both serial and IR interfaces. While the IR capability seems to be currently limited to Palm devices, I had hoped the serial port could be used with the 48GX and 49G (especially the latter, as this does not have an IR port). However, there appears to be some further incompatibility; I cannot get either the 48GX or 49G to talk to the A6. The serial port on the A6 is DB8, and the cable is DB8 to DB9; I connect this cable to the HP serial cable using a DB9 gender changer (as both the HP and SiPix cables have female DB9 ends). I verified that the A6 prints from my PC, though a driver must be installed for that (under Windows 95). Does anyone have any idea how to go about making this work? I have seen past postings indicating some interest in using the 49G with a serial printer, as the 49G does not have an IR port. Beyond this, does anyone know what might be involved in trying to develop a driver for the 48GX so it could talk to the A6 via the IR port? Geoff Garner ==== try IrDA-2400bps on printer and 2400-IR on HP supposedly that should work, that the HP48 is IrDA compliant at 2400 ==== Can you give us more information on this printer? For example, how much does it cost and where it can be purchased. Download http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/programming/48techni.zip. Perhaps you'll need to make a special adapter or cable. It occurs to me that you might have to reverse the Transmit and Receive lines at one end. Note that on the 49G, XON/XOFF serial flow control does not work. If the printer's receive buffer is big enough, this might not matter; otherwise try using the DELAY command (but I don't know whether it actually works as described with serial printing). These calculators do not support the IrDA protocol, but if you can set the printer to receive Serial IR (SIR) at 2400 bps, you might get this working by setting both flags -33 and -34. Experiment with the DELAY command after you start getting something to print. This is probably of marginal interest to you, but you might want to see http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/programming/82240bte.zip as well for information regarding the protocol used for the HP 82240B printer. James ==== mensagem:858fc952.0111021116.1bb1be1a@posting.google.com... : subject variated from lemm49g to exal or something. The body of the : : Julio Cesar. All That sh*t(sorry for the bad word) is Sircam. ==== And the fact that it has taken you this long to figure out that I'm talking about numbers displayed as is points to the same problem with your understanding. What you are arguing about is different than what I am. Ok, let me repeat for the last time that I never said anything to this effect. You may have interpreted it that way though. This whole debate has no basis because we were never debating the same thing in the first place. I was arguing with the understanding that we were talking about binary floating point numbers displayed and a subset of operations performed as is on decimal fractions. I guess you are arguing with the premise that we are talking about binary floating point numbers displayed at a lower precision than they are stored. is talking about something totally different. In his case he assumed we were debating with the premise that our floating point numbers were represented in binary but the *base* was 10. At any rate, extending this conversation any further is pointless. I will now put this thread on ignore. Bye bye, Jonathan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== Please read the posts and understand them before making a fool of yourself. I am sick of continuing this argument because of people misinterpreting what I say. In fact, this whole argument has no foundation but for the initial misunderstandings among it's participants. Bye, I will no longer participate in this conversation. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== Well, if *everybody* misinterpret what you are saying, maybe the problem is elsewhere don't you think ? ==== out they were misinterpreting each other too. I'm not the only one. Read the other posts and you'll see that there are *three* distinct interpretations of binary floating point in this debate. Up until recently *none* of us realized that we were talking about something different. That is why I said this debate is totally worthless because, well, there is no debate in the first place. :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== I'm wandering from where can I download the AUR for the HP 48G, or if I have to buy it. If it's true, where can I shop it -online, because I live in Colombia-? Camilo ==== You can download it at www.hpcalc.org It's a 16Mb download, take your time. http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/misc/hp48gug.zip Diego.- ==== It's just HP 48G Series User's Guide. I think the AUR is not available on the intrnet -- http://193.145.89.239/~rblasco/ Un222os, hermanos linuxeros 640 Kb de memoria son m207s que suficientes (IBM AT Designers - 1982) Bueno, espero que esto no aparezca en la versi227n final (Bill Gates en la presentaci227n de Windows Crash Debug '98) ==== As far as I know, it's not available in electronic format. I don't know how convenient these sources are for you, but http://www.calcpro.com/ lists it for US$29.95, and http://www.samsoncables.com/ for US$49.95 (used) or US$75.00 (and no, I don't understand why CalcPro is so much less). You could try the other ways to buy link from http://www.hp.com/calculators/accessories/other.html, or try the dealers listed at http://www.hpcalc.org/links.php. Occasionally, this item shows up for auction at eBay. Good luck, James ==== Hope there is a happy ending! How about turning this into an adventure game for the 49G? :) BTW, is the 2002 HHC still scheduled for Sep next year? I couldn't attend the last one (too busy in Sep), but I might go for it in 2002, considering there are pretty cheap flights from here to London... -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== What follows is just a funny but real incident, the author is free to use it in order to spice up a little the storyline: given a kraft carton box with Texas Instruments Dallas, Texas 75251 blah, blah, blah 89/CLM/1E3/B QTY3 Made in Taiwan Huh??? I was panic striken. An error in my order? Even 3 TI89?s can?t cope up with a 48! It turned out to be that this box once contained 3 TI89?s but at the time was protecting the precious 48 and it?s friends (cable, memory card)... ==== [ 22:03 11 / 19 / 2031 ] [WASHINGTON DC ] [ TI HEADQUARTERS ] [ the black square building was surrounded by walking robots. Each had a calculator on top working as a brain. A long line of dump trucks queued at the main gate. They were filled with plastic and metal scraps from which new calculators were made.] [hidden by the darkness of the night, William climbed to one of the dump trucks and waited in silence meanwhile the truck made its way through the gate] [[ mother server located at: - 2 level ]] [indicated the display of his HP49G (inside the building)] [ he heard the noise (servos) of a robot coming towards him in the other side of a corner ] [ he raised his hand - holding the HP49G-, waiting for the robot to show its face] [BOOM!!, he smashed the HP49G against the TI brain (calculator) of the robot. The TI calc splashed into pieces like a broken glass of wine. The HP49G didn't even scratched] [[ preparing ... decoding ... ]] [[ log-in successful ]] [ a metal door opened, the break-in security algorithm had worked to perfection ] [ the room was full of flashing lights and beeps, it was the mother server!! ] [ he heard a voice on the other side of the room] [ taken by surprise, He couldn't believe he was staring at the president of TI ] To be continued ... ==== What? No dancing girl as the president of TI? ;-) Greetings, ==== [ TI'S MOTHER SERVER ROOM ] [ William is confronted by the president of TI ] [ william is speechless] [ I knew you would made till here. I didn't need to look for you. I just waited, and here you are.] [(silence)] [(TI's president starts talking again) we live in a world of life and death, some survive, some don't. Hps were the best, but that does not guaranty life. The strong takes advantage over the weak. That is why we chose kids as our food. Kids are easy to manipulate. Mathematics. Why the pain? Why the suffering? Automatic simplification was the answer. Make them look smart, and they will buy.] [ TI's president turns his back to william. He reaches his face with his hand and pulls his face out ( he is a robot!!).] [ BEEP] [BEEP] [BEEP] [BEEP] .. [ william pulls his HP49G from his pocket] [ there is a message for you, says william. He handles the HP49G to the robot ] (*author: be careful william, the HP49G is priceless) [his telescoping eyes focus on the display] [[ you are the result of my thoughts]] [flashing] [[ my son ]] [william observed the robot immobile] [what did it mean?] [the robot seems to get angry] [the robot shoots a cutting laser in an attempt to destroy the HP49G] [the 'display cover' of the HP49G * reflects * the cutting laser into the robot's eyes] [the robot drops dead] [william connects the HP49G to the mother server] [[ Activating system ... ... Detecting presence of TIs mother server ... .. Starting routine packet #001 sent Packet #002 sent .. .. . [ lights start to shut down in the room one by one] [the beeps stop] [everything gets quiet] [students across the world start to think again] [william stands still, looking at the HP49G] [terminator 2 music starts to play] [THE END] ==== ROFL. Congrats! :-) -- Colin Croft Old mathematicians never die; they just lose some of their functions. ====================================== Applications in Mathematics ccroft@iinet.net.au http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/ ====================================== ==== [A brilliant piece of theatry, up there with Shakespeare and his like...] Is it just me, or does anybody else get the urge to play all episodes of Spacequest all over again... Ray ==== When can we expect the sequel? Will the Great-Incompatible be in the cast? ;-) Greetings, ==== ... Simply brilliant!!! Carlos J. Bourlot C227rdoba, Argentina ==== Ditto - brilliant - great ending. Gather it together and upload it to hpcalc.org SW archive for their humour section. Full marks. ==== Ah Hah! An Isaac Asimov fan I am sure! Great stuff. Geoff ==== Karagiaouroglou says... well, i already thought of making a new one (rough sketches). but this week and the next week i have tons of exams. your presence would create interference. i would have to wrap you up in aluminum foil. thanks to everybody for the compliments : ) ==== Bravo! Encore! -- It's a conspiracy? Ha! That's exactly what they WANT you to think! http://pweb.jps.net/~joehorn http://my-vcard.com/joehorn ==== LOL!! :-D Nick in aluminium foil, pretending to be an isolated ideal radiator :-) ==== [[BEEP-O-BOPP]] Message received... [[BEEP,BEEP]] [[ Please Enter Your Name: ]] Nick Karagiaouroglou [[BPMGSFGT!!-What is this?]] [[FATAL ERROR..GRMPSFGLGLGLGLGL!!!]] [[Recovering from crash]] [[Starting transmission from the 49G-Continuum]] Send a message to the BORG containg my name. They will crash with no hope for recovery. Or move to the continuum. This dimension is too small for us. [[Ending transmission]] Greetings, Q- ;-) ==== And with Mathematica 10.0 pre-installed? ;-) Greetings, ;-) ==== Does anyone have any information on the new '49 input form engine, accessible via the ^IfMain flashpointer? I know it is more or less compatible with the old DoInputForm one. At least the arguments are the same. But I've found that simply changing DoInputForm to ^IfMain is not always good, there are small incompatibilities. There are also some new features, such as minifont fields. Also, the messages sent to message handlers seem to have changed totally. Cyrille de Brebisson has in site a document that explains how to use the Debug2 IDE to create one, but I'm looking for information on how to create one manually. At least, how to use the new features. -- Eduardo M Kalinowski http://move.to/hpkb ==== IÇve written a program for my own purpose which relies heavily on ^IfMain (actually I use ^IfMain2 which is a lot *faster* as ^IfMain, but you have to precompile the arguments for ^IfMain and create a program from it, which was pretty tricky, but once you have understood how it works it is worth the effort and really fast). My source is well documented, but unfortunately all in German. Yes. If youÇre interested, I can send you the code-parts concerning the manually creation of ^IfMain(2), but it might be hard to read :-) And maybe you know a way how to put my prog on hpcalc, since I canÇt connect to the server (might be my fault, wrong settings in my dial-up Internet connetcion or something). AM ==== Well, I speak a little bit of German... Please do, everything concerning that is welcome. Sometimes the site is down... -- Eduardo M Kalinowski http://move.to/hpkb ==== [ THE VENICE DEALER ] little palpitating like a circus drum. He seemed possessed by a restless spirit awaiting judment.] [ Two man appeared at the door. they looked around, verifying that there was nobody else present. They started walking towards him. ] [ Did you bring the money? Asked one of the two man (strong Italian accent).] [ Yes. replied the short man staring at the square box up in one the man's hand.] [ Is that the Xpander? asked promptly. ] [ Yes. The man shook the box indicating the presence of an object inside. ] [ The short man pulled out a big bundle of green $100 bills.] [ Count them if you want. There are $3000. ] [ That is not necessary. We know. ] [ They made the exchange, and the two men disappeared like smoke. ] right. ] [ He was looking at a black TI calculator. ] To be continued... ==== Hallo, sorry fr the title but i need to know if solve linear system on HP49G can accept rational numbers on matrix editing:i explain, i try to solve a matrix system like AX=B i put on A matrix the number 10/3 but it rejects , it seems in matrix better in matrix working with the linear system solver i can't put rational numbers with the flash / IT IS ABSURD Can someone tell me what can i do????? ==== Since 10/3 is a symbolic object it must be surrounded by the symbolic object delimiters: '10/3'. Greetings, -0600) ==== If you mean algebraic (symbolic) solutions, I pass, but if you mean multiple *numeric* solutions over an interval, the ROOTS program should do it: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8hnn71%24hud%241%40nnrp1.deja.com Numeric answers could be evaluated back to symbolic with ->Qpi etc. [r->] [OFF] ==== Until then, don't call this command when not on a delimiter. - Carsten JF> With all flags set to defaults... JF> When editing JF> :: < JF> ; JF> @ JF> where < is the location of your cursor, press LSH-{<-->} twice fast. JF> Since all flags are set to default, you'll get two beeps and nothing JF> untoward will happen. If the only change is that you are in RPN mode, JF> you *won't* get two beeps and pressing enter immediately after will JF> give you a nice TTRM. Note: the lack of a space between :: and ; JF> is important, but little else appears to be. LSH-{<-->} is supposed JF> to fold the current secondary. I've done the described many times in JF> various ways to make sure it's repeatable, so hopefully it actually JF> *is* repeatable for you. JF> (For the curious: I backed everything up in preparation for some JF> SysRPLing, and got distracted with learning a bit more about Emacs. JF> Good timing on this bug!) ==== now! especially since my preliminary efforts towards a long-press compiling ENTER key have told me this: looks hard. ==== James, I got it at Staples last Wednesday. The list price is $149.99, but it was on sale for $99.99 (and SiPix had a $20 rebate, but that was good only until 11/30). I saw in a discussion group on the A6 that someone found it for $79.99. I downloaded this document, and checked that my cables are mapping the pins properly. The document shows on page 4 the pins for the DB9 and DB8. I connected my cable that came with the HP49 (F1906-66000, with the F1633-66001 adaptor to go to the 48)to a DB9 gender changer, and then to the DB9 end of the A6 printer cable (because the A6 cable and the HP cable both have DB9 female ends). I used an ohmmeter to verify that the ground, TX, and RX pins of the 4-pin connector that inserts into the HP48GX map into the ground, TX, and RX pins on the DB8, respectively (i.e., using the diagram on p.4 of this document, pin 2 at the HP 48 end maps to pin 3 at the DB8 end; pin 3 at the HP48 end maps to pin 5 at the DB8 end, and pin 4 at the HP48 end maps to pin 4 at the DB8 end). The pins do map in this manner. I previously tried connecting the HP 48GX and HP49 to my one of my computer COM ports via a DB9 to DB25 adaptor at the computer. I opened a terminal window for this COM port and printed from the HP48GX and HP49 to the terminal window successfully. This worked even when I set the COM port speed to 115200 bps (this is the A6 printer speed). I can try interchanging the TX and RX pins when connecting to the A6, but will have to make a cable to do this (unless they are sold somewhere). The printer is supposed to receive through the IR port at 2.4, 9.6, 19.2, 38.4, 57.6, and 115.2 kbit/s. There seems to be no way to set anything on the printer. On the HP 48GX, it is not completely clear how to set the baud rate when printing via the IR port. There is no setting on the print menu when IR is chosen, nor any flag for this. The only setting I could find is when doing left shift followed by I/O and then choosing IOPAR. A baud rate selection appears above the second function key; one can enter 2400 and then select baud. However, this seems to mainly affect the baud rate setting on the print menu when wire mode is selected. Is there a way to set the baud rate on the HP48 for IR transfer? suggesting that the HP48 is IrDA compliant at 2400. However, so far I have not been able to make this work. I downloaded this manual. Possibly I would be helped if I could get a similar manual for the A6. However, SiPix has nothing on their web site, nor have I been able to find anything on the web so far. I presume they must make such information available in some manner as they have partners who develop software to use with the A6 to connect to other devices. Geoff ==== After visiting the SiPix web site, it occurs to me that this printer probably doesn't have any built-in fonts (MS Windows or Palm OS required). That is, it can't print one character per byte of data, but requires some sort of graphics data. If they'll provide you with enough information about what format the data has to be in for the printer to use it, then it may be possible to write software to translate a GROB to whatever the printer requires. Also, from their User's Guide, I get the impression that the serial port is 115200 bps only; if so, then you're out of luck on using the serial port. For the benefit of anyone else who might be interested, visit http://www.sipix.com/pocket_printer.shtml. Also note that the rebate on their site is good on purchases through December 31st, 2001; see http://www.sipix.com/ppa6_rebate.pdf. It seems to me that the paper is rather expensive, though. The 8-pin connector shown on page 4 is for connecting to a Macintosh. I wouldn't count on your printer's connector being the same. In any case, you need to have the calculator's Transmit connected to the printer's Receive, and the calculator's Receive connected to the printer's Transmit. For experimental purposes, I'd find some wire that could fit the DB9 female connectors without damaging them. Try 2 (Transmit) of each DB9 to 3 (Receive) of the other DB9, and 5 (Signal Ground) to 5. You may be able to find a modem eliminator in kit form, that is, two DB9 connectors that you wire together yourself, and the shell and hardware to hold them. Try RadioShack or someplace like that. Several years ago I made a couple for something or other; a bit bulkier than the typical gender changer - maybe two inches long. Of course, a cable would also work. I see that their User's Guide says to use hardware flow control and makes no mention of software flow control, so it's best to leave transmit/receive pacing off and hope for the best. I don't know whether it's possible to make the 48 series IrDA compliant by software alone; it might require hardware changes. Many users would certainly appreciate it if it can be done. No (at least not with UserRPL). IR I/O is 2400 baud, no parity, no XON/XOFF pacing; those parameters in IOPAR are ignored when in IR mode. The HP 48 series predates the founding of the IrDA (see http://www.irda.org/about/index.asp), so it would've been difficult to comply with this standard that didn't yet exist. I believe that he made an unwarranted assumption. However, if the IrDa device supports the optional IrCOMM protocol, or it can use IR I/O similar to the calculator's relatively simple format instead of IrDA, then it may be able to communicate with the 48. It would be nice, but perhaps they don't realize that it would be to their advantage to make this information available. It looks to me as if this printer can't be made to work with these calculators, but let us know if you have any luck. James ==== James, can get more information on the A6. I do have 2 minor questions, though: 1) You indicated that if the printer serial port is only 115200 bps, then I'm out of luck. However, when I tested sending data from the HP48 or 49 to my PC's COM port via the print command, I set the COM port speed to 115200 bps, and it worked. Does this mean that the PC actually adapts to whatever speed the incoming data is, regardless of the COM port setting? 2) You said the paper for the A6 seems rather expensive. The per roll cost seems similar to that of the HP82240B (I saw a cost of 6 rolls for $16.95 for the 82240B, versus 4 rolls for $9.95 for the A6). Are the rolls for the HP printer larger? I'm asking this because I would consider, as a last resort, trying to get the 82240B and at least being able to use it with the 48GX, unless there are any other options? (The 82240B seems rather expensive -- around $140 plus $40 for the AC adapter, plus extra for a case if you want that; the A6 included all of this). Geoff ==== Apparently so. I've wondered about the same thing. I can set HyperTerminal anywhere from 110 to 921600 bps, with or without flow control, and it still correctly captures whatever I print to it. I'm hoping that your printer can do this too. The HP 82175A rolls are 5.7 cm X 25m (2.25 in. X 80 ft.) (about 2 in. (5 cm) diameter). I usually use NCR or Perfect print brand paper from a local office supply store; of course, HP recommends its own paper, but I've had no problems using these brands. Avoid AMPAD brand paper though, because the print is hard to read - light purple instead of black. The last time I bought paper, they were out of stock on the usual size, so I bought 2.25 in. X 155 ft. (about 2.75 in. diameter) Perfect print rolls and rewound part of it onto empty cores - $4.89 plus tax for 3 rolls. Yes, it seems rather expensive to me too. Note that http://www.samsoncables.com/ currently has a used 82240B printer listed for $75, and you can probably get the printer and AC adapter on eBay at half or less of the list price. Don't buy an 82240A printer to use with a 48 because it doesn't have the same character set. Also note that if you can SEND the variable from the 49G to the 48, then you can print it to the 82240B from there. But note that there are some problems with this, for example, the new 49G object types will error out on the 48. James ==== Also, I remember having seen a program on hpcalc.org which makes a 48 connected via serial to a 49G act as a print server for the 49. Unfortunately, I can't find it any more. :( If you have a PC, you could also use Jarno Peschier's 82240B printer emulation. Of course, this not really a portable solution (I doubt that the program will work on a palmtop). -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== There are two unsupported entry points of ROM 1.19-6 that particularly interest me: OBJ>R and R>OBJ, as described in the entry reference. Unfortunately, I have to enter these as PTR xxxxx to use them -- which would be fine if I had a big file of DEFINEs that I included into a source, and which is also not so fine when, for SysRPL, I use objects as my 'source' -- so when I look back at a program I'm never sure what a given PTR xxxxx is. I don't know how to extend extable to have these (OT49 doesn't seem to want to split the whole library...) and I don't like the 'big file of DEFINEs' idea, as this won't help me interpret a given PTR. So... I've been thinking, and here are some ideas: 1. Have Emacs, say, translate all instances of OBJ>R, etc -- outside of a string or other object? -- to PTR xxxxx when recompiling an object, and do the reverse when decompiling. I could use a simple list in HOME for the database. 2. Have a key do this manually, toggling between R>OBJ and PTR xxxxx. 3. Have a key toggle what's *underneath the cursor*, as a perhaps simple alternative. OK. The way objects are decompiled, the decompilation of xxxxx to OBJ>R could just check that the line contains only some heading spaces and PTR xxxxxn (to use C syntax), but recompilation seems nontrivial: how do I distinguish between ID R>OBJ, R>OBJ, and R>OBJ ? I search back for ID, but what about R>OBJ? Write a bloody parser? (Of course, I could use MASD's own parser by letting ASM compile the source and checking for where it errors to translate, but that seems just as mad.) Does anyone else have ideas? Right now I'm leaning toward #3. It'd be *reeely* convenient if I could just add entries to extable. Is there documentation for extable at all? -0600) ==== Consider making a common library of popular but unsupported entry points; said library would, of course, very likely need to be revised to match different ROM versions, but at least users of the common library would need to revise only this new common library, and would not need to recompile all other libraries which use the common library. Now all you need is a Common Library maintainer/updater, an add my favorite unsupported entry point to the library request form, a where is/was entry point xxxxx in ROM version yy-y researcher, etc. etc. :) -[]- ==== JF> There are two unsupported entry points of ROM 1.19-6 that particularly JF> interest me: OBJ>R and R>OBJ, as described in the entry JF> reference. [...] I guess, the best way to deal with this is to follow Thomas' advice and try to figure out how to make a new extable which contains the more useful unsupported but stable pointers like OBJ>R and R>OBJ (I love these too). In the meas time, Emacs has two ways of helping to use unsupported pointers. The first is special completion. If you install the 'cpltab' file on your calc, then you can type .R and press the RPLCPL key. This completes from the list of unsupported but stable pointers in 'cpltab'. Note the dot as first character, which triggers the special completion. Emacs.txt explains how to use this, and you can also configure it to work right if you are using defines. The second help is in SDIAG. If you press the SDIAG key with the cursor on the number part of PTR 2B8E6, you get (R>OBJ) -> ob SDIAG contains names and stack diagrams for the non-trivial unsupported but stable pointers in the entry database, stored not under its name but its address. I did not include the unsupported BINTS from Wolfgangs list since there are so many, and since using EDOB to decompile them immediately shows what they are. But R>OBJ and similar pointers are listed. Hope this helps - Carsten ==== *Yes* =) <3C0BFC39.A8060E1E@iname.com> <76ea4fd3.0112040521.7b13ed20@posting.google.com> ==== OMG. Now I guess I have to hack it. *sigh* ;-) Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them. ==== Have you ever wanted to get an awesome graphing/scientific calculator? Now's your chance! Just a few hours ago I put a HP 48GX up for bid on ebay. I just used this calculator to get an A in both Physics and Chemistry! I have added a program to this calculator that shows the ENTIRE Periodic Table!!! It give the atomic weight and everything that you would need. This comes with manual and case with screen protection shield. This also includes the PC Connection Kit which normally costs $35 itself! Right now the current bid is only $1! To bid on the calculator go to http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1306186101 Happy Biding! Jason ==== Isn't it frustrating when you find a great program for your HP 48GX just to find out that you don't have enough memory free? Don't left that happen to you again!!! Just a few hours ago I placed a 1 Meg Memory Card, for the HP 48GX, up for bid on ebay. It is the actual HP 1 Meg card, not some no name brand that will go bad. Right now, if bought in the store it would cost over $345!!! But right now, you can bid on it on eBAY. Right now the current bid is ONLY $1!!!!! This 1 Meg memory card from HP 48GX will give you all the memory you need for that awesome program or game. This is the largest card made for the HP 48GX! There are some non-HP memory cards that do work, for a while, but they can fail and then you are stuck with a card that doesn't work. Don't let that happen to you! Get the REAL thing. To bid on the card just go to http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1306195046 Don't the the Out of Memory monster get you again!!! Jason -0600) ==== Where it says: This 1 Meg memory card for HP 48GX or HP 48SX... What can you do with a 1 Meg card in an HP48SX? Larger, close-up picture (is this it?): http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005JGD4.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg Is that the Epson new look? (Does the card still have a sliding shutter over the end contacts?) The actual price from HP is moot, because the Buy online from HP at HP Shopping is no more; here's a response from HP about it: ----- Quote from hpshopping.com (Cory Bury) ----- We apologize for all inconveniences this may have caused you. Unfortunately, this item is not currently available through HPShopping.com. However, I have provided some hypertext links to alternate vendors who may still carry this item: http://www.gadgetnook.com/g/Golden_Ram/ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/660982/2/ref%3Dbr%5Fppmr%5F2/t /102-7150671-7094509 http://www.lasergenie.com/ind.html http://www.wholesaleadvantage.com/hpcalcs_content.html ----- End quote ----- Do you mean the No Room in Port monster? -[]- ==== Yes, I guess you are right. Jack ==== Because you seemed to suggest, that binary is less accurate than than same size BCD, which of course is nonsense in general case of representing approximation of real numbers. Not that this fact require any secret, deep knowledge. To the contrary, it is just minimal basic knowledge about floating point representation combined with common sense. Here, I absolutely agree. Jack ==== Do you know any facts to back that up? -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== I try hard to get a hp49g that was produced in china. The resellers in switzerland all say they (still!) only get indonesian hp49s from hewlett-packard. If any one out there has found a place in europe to buy a chinese hp, please tell me!!! thanx dino ==== Barry escreveu nas not222cias de mensagem:3be96b37_5@goliath2.newsgroups.com... : > : > If you assume it's going to be 2-3 years before a new calculator : gets to the : > market we can assume that the PDA's will by then be fully : functional windows : > devices. You'll able to run apps lick Mathcad, Maple etc with : the only : > restrictions being screen real estate and hardware interface : (touch screen : > limited keys. Any new calculator would have to compete with : these and be : > sufficiently different in functionality to compete. : : I have Derive, Mathcad and Matlab for my HP 200lx. The version of : Derive I have was designed with the lx in mind. I'm not sure about : the others but they work just fine. I don't have any need for : these and my math is limited so I can't judge how they compare to : the HP49. But they are certainly available in an HP49 size package : with a screen about 3 times the size of the 49 screen and a QWERTY : keyboard with a numeric keypad. (too small for touch typing). And : good old HP sturdiness and reliability. : : The 200lx is almost exactly the same size as the 49G. It will fit : (snugly) in the HP48 soft case. It's a PC that uses 2 AA batteries : and gets about 40 hours from them and weighs 11 ounces including : batteries. Rechargebles are fine. There is a recharger built in. : It only knows how to charge standard Nicads but there is free : software downloadble to control the charging in various ways. It : can recharge the 1600 mah NIMH just fine. : : It also has Lotus 123 version 2.4 (complete) in rom, along with a : lot of PDA apps, more powerful ones than are available in newer : PDAs. Dos 5.0 is in ROM. Also Quicken, CC:Mail and an HP : bussiness calculator (which talks to Lotus). Several full sets of : internet software are available. Some free, some not. Several : cards for wireless access are avaliable, as are modem cards. It : has infra-red. A group of users are now looking into the possibity : of Bluetooth. The power supplied to the PCMCIA port is limited so : this may or may not work. With a Parallel port PCMCIA card it : works fine with a Zip drive. : : It also runs Microsoft Flight Simulator 4.0, Word Perfect 5.1, : dBase 3+, Paradox, most older compilers of most languages and a : world of commercial games. All that and it fit's in my pocket. It : also has a PCMCIA slot. I have a 160 meg flash card. It's my A: : drive. it would be cool to install windows 3.0(3.1?2.0?) on it or linux to play with soffice :-). do u use a modem on it? what about installing internet explorer 2.0/3.0 for Win3.11 and word 2.0/ mirc (2.1? 4.0? 5.02?) on it? i am using mirc 5.02 on a 486 w/8 mb ram and 240 meg hdd. : They don't make them anymore but they're available all over the : place and they supply seems to be increasing as time goes by. : : Barry : : : : : : Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! ==== I would say I wouldn't use the TI-89 because of it's vertical layout, good if we could have a choice between the horizontal and vertical layouts, just as TI has provided. Bhuvanesh. ==== I think students could have some problems to use these calcs in examsYes. It's the best solution xD -- http://193.145.89.239/~rblasco/ Un222os, hermanos linuxeros 640 Kb de memoria son m207s que suficientes (IBM AT Designers - 1982) Bueno, espero que esto no aparezca en la versi227n final (Bill Gates en la presentaci227n de Windows Crash Debug '98) ==== Just do a loop program with a integer counter in User RPL for both 48 and 49 and see the 48GX makes you think you wasted money buying the 49G. Marx Pio ------------------------------------------------------------ http://MailAndNews.com ------------------------------------------------------------ ==== 49 It's not a FACT, it's a FAQ. The HP 48G doesn't have ZINTs, it uses reals. If you rewrite your 49G program using reals, it'll be just as fast as the 48G program. -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== I've downloaded Jack Levy's Organiser10 and transferred it to my 49g. When I look at the home directory, I can see it but have not worked out how to activate the program. Jack's instructions seem quite clear, but due to my lack of experience (first time transfer)and the manual being almost useless, I need some help with the steps below: 2. Press the soft-key associated with the library file (ORG10.LIB). Library 1144: Org... should now be displayed on level1 of the stack. 3. Purge the ORG10.LIB variable, leaving the library on the stack. 4. Enter the port number you want to store the library into. 5. Press STO. 6. Turn the calculator off and then on again or use the ON-C key combination. To access the library, press right-shift-library (2), and then NXT until you see Organ. Press the corresponding soft-key to access the ORG menu. FYI - also own a HP17BII Martin. ==== Try having single quotes (' '), then hit the soft key ( 'ORG10.LIB' should be on the stack). Then hit ENTER so you have two copies. Now RCL so that you have Lib.... on level one. SWAP so that you have 'ORG10.LIB' on level one, then PURGE the variable. Now put the number of a port on the stack (0, 1, 2) and STO the lib into that port. Now hit ON-C to reboot. It should be in the libs menu. -Scott ==== i remember Cyrille saying something about a C compiler. (that would be in my opinion, more 'feasible' and less traumatic than a whole new operating system and would provide maybe more joy to our lives ;) ) The HP49G development relies on the unselfished gifts of excellent programmers ( too many to be named). these gifs, which none of us has done anything to earn, offer us not only the oportunity for a richer calculator than ever before but also the oportunity to add to the sum total of the HP49 development by our own contributions, however small. maybe, those on top decide one day to shoot for a C compiler (would require properly made efforts of the cum laude HP gurus and some coordination i guess). (i throw my message in a bottle to the five seas with minimum hope due to the big dark cloud overcasting HP calculators but still with hope) says... ==== I believe both User- and SysRPL creates smaller code sizes than TIBasic, but you're right - now it's pretty much useless to me. Right, so it has served out its life for me. It has lived longer than Java for me for example, which I don't suspect I'll be using much anymore, so that was only 3-4 years. ==== X the HP48/49 can be over-simplifying something can lead to disagree with what or wrong. I was just conclusion that he had made. X Just down-scaling the process from 2 mikrons to 0.25 mikrons will give you RPL> yield 64 * and RPL> speed 8 * So the Yorke/Saturn is pre-historic stuff !! Only the 12C has been revised AND I heard that it was deliberately made slow so that the bean counters at Wall Street could believe it still was working hard Try IRR or NPV in 12C and 19BII Oh - if Hell-Pack could only down-scale Saturn process ==== X languages intended asm) But the graphics (etc.) are so different that you have to learn a new API anyway. ANY structured programming language is ok !! (no goto for a poor end-user programming the thing) ==== Nousiainen schrieb im Newsbeitrag Yet another interesting discussion popping up. While you're going with Dijkstra, I'm with Knuth, D.E., Structured Programming with GOTO Statements, ACM Computing Surveys, 6(4):261-301, December, 1974. Albert -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== languages intended asm) Well, with this logic you could then say that the basis of the Saturn ML is the same as the Motorola 68K, the Inter x86 and ARM :) ==== Yes, that's correct, so was the 10BII, nobody would trust the result on these machines if it was computed too fast :) ==== well, I think HP got their marketing wrong. yep they do comparative adversiting saying their calc has this, this this and this. and have an extra tick for the nth root button but in the end of the day, their calculator has ancient hardware. It could be a HP48G with rewritten code to make it faster. I think whoever programmed the 49G did a good job considering they were using a processor that is 15 years old. but i think HP should have got their finger out and got a new processor for the job. saturn is way tooo slow! as for the programming languages, my view is SysRPL is better because it is faster on a slow calc. TI basic is slow but the processor speed makes up for it. is Granted, ==== On Sat, 1 Dec 2001 12:54:30 -0000, thedemon These rants about how the Saturn is ancient seem to never end. Do I have to remind you that the MC68000 made its debut in 1979? ( the year I was born ) That's 5 years older than the Saturn. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== yeah but there is a considerable speed difference. i wasn't aware that the motorola was so old, but given that its a processor that is way quicker than the yorke job. ----- ==== I'm not very impressed with Java either :-/ Bhuvanesh. ==== thedemon schrieb im Newsbeitrag to It *is* a HP 48G with rewritten code. (With very well rewritten code, I might add. ;-) What's wrong with that? The HP 48G, after all these years, is still a very good calc. As someone else has already pointed out, the 68010 is ancient hardware as well. I don't really care. Potential buyers take a look at the available features, and decide what they want. You decide for the TI's better speed, that's fine. I prefer good customizability and an on-board functional programming language, so it's the HP for me. And then there's the design (and the coolness factor ;-). -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== I didn't know that, but that makes things even more interesting (why does the 68k outperform the Saturn even though the former is 5 years older?) Bhuvanesh. ==== How can I achieve a UsrRPL program which interupts the execution for an alarm and continues running when the alarm is quiet? TIA Heiko ==== I have tried << 74.3 KEYEVAL 94 KEYEVAL..>>.. to start the set time, date.. And I failed to hack SetDA12NoCh, wihout knowing what it does... While surching for material (Eduardos doc, nosy, emacs) I would be happy for hints. potential-Sys-brand-newby Heiko ==== AcDcP escreveu nas not222cias de mensagem:9e3ab4b8.0111051513.60330911@posting.google.com... : iÇm sorry if this has been aswered before but does anyone know how to : calculate a limit with two variables in the 49??? are u from brazil? I am. ==== What? You still have blod in your veins/plumbing? I prefer liquid Helium from Otaniemi Labs (and some times even some Warps faster :) X ==== Nousiainen schrieb im Newsbeitrag auto-reply with the 49BORG mode option?? With all the 49G bashing recently going on in this group, I've been wondering whether, following the retreat of HP from the calc market, the TIBORGs decided it's time to take over this ng. Actually I'd like to suggest that the my TI 89 is so much faster/better/nicer than your 48/49G type posts should henceforth be labelled with a [TI] prefix to prevent us HP zealots from being drawn over to the dark side. ;-) (Note to the knowledgeable TI users in this ng: I'm just joking; no offense intended! In fact I must admit that my 2nd programmable calc was a TI 59, couldn't afford a HP at that time. ;-) Albert -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== Raymond Hellstern a 216crit dans le message something like ASC (from Erich Rechlin) something like hp48 explorer (from Chris Mumford) Somebody else ? ==== You might find better prices at www.cynox.de Greetings, Marco ==== into RAM? ==== Yes, there exist various small ML programs which do the job. Raymond ==== where do i find such ML progs? ==== Raymond ==== I've just discovered the dbug environment but I have a problem with local variables. I have two bints on the stack, my SysRPL program stores them into two local variables: do stuff.... { LAM n LAM v } BIND :: do some other stuff... ; The program works fine, and debugging is fine too until I SSTv over BIND, then an undefined local name error is generated and debugging is aborted. Where's the mistake? TIA & Greetings, Marco ==== Transfering with Hp Comm... is veeeery slooow. Try with Emu48 (or another emulator you like). It allows transfer with XModem instead Kermit. I hope this helps ==== So does the latest version of HP Comm for the HP39/40 Also, with the HP38,39, 40 you have no other choice than using Kermit as a protocol ==== Is it possible to transfer between 48/9 and 39/40 I've been able to transfer some texts form my 40 to my 48, but I haven't been able to transfer the other way. Is it impossible at all? -- http://193.145.89.239/~rblasco/ Un222os, hermanos linuxeros 640 Kb de memoria son m207s que suficientes (IBM AT Designers - 1982) Bueno, espero que esto no aparezca en la versi227n final (Bill Gates en la presentaci227n de Windows Crash Debug '98) ==== Did you happen to set the comma , as fraction-mark (HP48GX and HP49G) or decimal mark (HP39)? If so, change it back to point before exchanging files with your computer (i.e. comp-> HP). This setting caused me problems to in the past. Regard, Arnold ==== Yeah, but the problem apparently was the file names (bad chars in the file name). Emu48 might help there. Try dragging your file to Emu48, store it into a variable, then transfer the variable from Emu48 to your calc. Hope this helps, Albert -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== I'm trying to make an easy programm for my hidraulics class, but I get some mistakes like Invalid Syntaxis. Here is the code that I've done, it will be really helpul if you tell me the mistakes. Camilo So, here's the code... << PROPIEDADES GEOMETRICAS DE UN CANAL ARTIFICIAL MSGBOX TRAPECIO(1), CIRCULO(2) INPUT OBJ-> EVAL -> UU << CASE 'UU == 1' THEN BASE ? INPUT OBJ-> EVAL -> B TIRANTE ? INPUT OBJ-> EVAL -> Y INCLINACION ? INPUT OBJ-> EVAL -> Z 'B/Y' ->NUM -> X 'Y*(X+2*Z)' ->NUM ANCHO T ->TAG 'Y^2*(X+Z)' ->NUM AREA A ->TAG 'Y*(X+2*(1+Z^2)^0.5)' ->NUM PERIMETRO P ->TAG END 'UU == 2' THEN DIAMETRO ? INPUT OBJ-> EVAL -> D TIRANTE ? INPUT OBJ-> EVAL -> Y 'ACOS (2*Y/D-1)' ->NUM -> Gh 'D*SIN(Gh)' ->NUM ANCHO T ->TAG 'D^2/8*(2*(PI-Gh)+SIN(2*Gh))' ->NUM AREA A ->TAG 'D*(PI-Gh)' ->NUM PERIMETRO P ->TAG END END >> >> ==== Not to be rude Christian, but read some of the previous posts; there is discussion on this very topic and vendor under my previous posts. Stephen does pretty much everything I need it to, but it would be when you can find them. They typically are as much, or more at http://www.uuhome.de/oklotz/index_e.html and they vendor and, if so, has the product performed as it should, ie in particular, SXs, but I'd be happy to hear from anyone ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ==== I swore there use to be a HP49G user Guide in .pdf format on the HP Web Site. Do anyone have a copy? Gary ==== You can download all the user guides at www.hpcalc.org This is the user guide, http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/49g_ug.zip ..the pocket guide, http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/49g_pg.zip and the AUG, http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/49g_aug.zip all in .pdf format Enjoy, Diego.- ==== I bought a Dell Dimension 2100 with Windows Millenium Edition, and also an HP psc 950 printer / fax / scanner / copier (all through Dell). The computer runs perfectly before I install the HP. Then the HP works OK as printer, fax, copier, BUT..... (a) it locks up the computer if I click on the HP toolbox, (b) it makes the computer runs terribly slowly, and (c) it makes the computer stall during shutdown -- this program is not responding, without saying which program. I've tried everything, including (a) sending to HP for the latest drivers (which were identical to the original drivers) (b) formatting the hard drive and reinstalling WinMe. (c) switching to the other USB port. Same thing keeps happening. I'm starting to despair. I would be grately deepful for any assistance. ==== products. Your posting in several groups is not terribly considerate. Try reformatting your hard disk, re-installing Windows ME, or upgrading to Windows XP, and then install your printer software. That sometimes helps. ==== X try to X Do it, please! ==== code me Salut, Monsieur Avenard ! How about releasing the 49G source? Maybe just to the chosen one's? ==== Yesterday at Plaisio (Thessaloniki): While at the counter I notice behind the clerk the usual Casio, Oregon Scientific, etc calcs *BUT* sitting in blue HP stands. I ask the salesman Do you have HP calculators too, or it is just the stands?. He replied We do sir but they are scientific, expensive. (already owner of a 48GX w/ a 1MB RAM card, I tried not to smile). They had a 10BII, a 17BII, a 19BII, a 12C and a 49G on the display. Anyway, their site includes more models. For comparison, a 48G costs 148,56 Euro. http://www.plaisio.gr/IWCatSectionView.process?IWAction=Load&Section_Id= 608&Catalog_Id=7&Merchant_Id=1&pcount=0&sts_cid=3 ==== This isnÇt far from Clemson, SC, isnÇt it? I will be there for a few months beginning mid February - early March. ==== On Sat, 1 Dec 2001 15:37:21 +0200, G. Ilias Not far as the crow flies,but several hundred miles by road. Easiest way to get to Chattanooga is to go through Atlanta Georgia. Harold A. Climer Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy U. Tennessee at Chattanooga ==== Monday morning i will check the stores in Patra. There are numerous, i will try to estimate how many calcs they have. consider it statistics. SACRILEGE!!! HERECY!!! BURN AT THE STAKE!!! oregon? they make calculators? i put oregano in food %-| i beat you, i have a GX with 1M+128K :D Will you come over here for the carnival? We'll have a blast... or we could arrange a meeting somewhere for all greek hp freaks :} will check stores and give you info. Wait for monday gT parse and purge ==== Fabio Croce schrieb programming Fabio, have a look to HP48 documentation http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/programming/ For UserRPN, *this is the starting point for the HP49G. or search on http://www.hpcalc.org Have a look to the Advanced Users Reference AUR or AUG?, which is written for the HP48G but still valid for the HP49G. ..Heiko ==== Take a look at my site, http://move.to/hpkb . -- Your reasoning is excellent -- it's only your basic assumptions that are wrong. Eduardo M Kalinowski http://move.to/hpkb ==== that site just goes to some invalid sports site with lots of pop up windows, annoying!! programming study wrong. ==== Eduardo M Kalinowski schrieb I can confirm the pupup inflation, which ends up in an error404 This works better: http://cgi-bin.spaceports.com/~hpkb/tutorials/index.php ..Heiko ==== windows, Albert -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== buy a ti-89. the ti-89 returns quickly (3 seconds): x=5.40547374293 y=1.59452625707 hth. ---- can ==== Buying a new calculator just to perform a simple calculation is not very practical nor very smart either. Just install SolveSys and you'll be able to solve many non-linear systems of equations. http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/math/numeric/ss49v12.zip http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/math/numeric/ss49docs.zip Diego.- ==== SOLVE2 from SymbToolz 2.0 beta uses 6.7 seconds, so the TI89 wins again :-) This one's pretty easy to solve on the HP49G by hand though (mind you the question was actually for the '48): 2: 'LN(X)-3*LN(Y)=2*LN(2)-LN(3)' 1: 'X+Y=7' 'X' SOLVE SWAP OVER SUBST EXP TEXPAND 'Y' SOLVE (Press 'Yes' if not in approx. mode) EVAL NIP NIP (because you edited the list with down arrow, and found that the third root was the only real one) SWAP OVER SUBST EVAL --> 2: 'Y=1.59452625707' 1: 'X=5.40547374293' Voil207 :-) COLCT and PROOT will do much of the above work on the HP48, but you'll need Erable for TEXPAND (and EXEC). ==== I have an HP48GX and HP49G, and recently got a SiPix A6 pocket printer. This printer has both serial and IR interfaces. While the IR capability seems to be currently limited to Palm devices, I had hoped the serial port could be used with the 48GX and 49G (especially the latter, as this does not have an IR port). However, there appears to be some further incompatibility; I cannot get either the 48GX or 49G to talk to the A6. The serial port on the A6 is DB8, and the cable is DB8 to DB9; I connect this cable to the HP serial cable using a DB9 gender changer (as both the HP and SiPix cables have female DB9 ends). I verified that the A6 prints from my PC, though a driver must be installed for that (under Windows 95). Does anyone have any idea how to go about making this work? I have seen past postings indicating some interest in using the 49G with a serial printer, as the 49G does not have an IR port. Beyond this, does anyone know what might be involved in trying to develop a driver for the 48GX so it could talk to the A6 via the IR port? Geoff Garner ==== try IrDA-2400bps on printer and 2400-IR on HP supposedly that should work, that the HP48 is IrDA compliant at 2400 ==== Can you give us more information on this printer? For example, how much does it cost and where it can be purchased. Download http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/programming/48techni.zip. Perhaps you'll need to make a special adapter or cable. It occurs to me that you might have to reverse the Transmit and Receive lines at one end. Note that on the 49G, XON/XOFF serial flow control does not work. If the printer's receive buffer is big enough, this might not matter; otherwise try using the DELAY command (but I don't know whether it actually works as described with serial printing). These calculators do not support the IrDA protocol, but if you can set the printer to receive Serial IR (SIR) at 2400 bps, you might get this working by setting both flags -33 and -34. Experiment with the DELAY command after you start getting something to print. This is probably of marginal interest to you, but you might want to see http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/programming/82240bte.zip as well for information regarding the protocol used for the HP 82240B printer. James ==== mensagem:858fc952.0111021116.1bb1be1a@posting.google.com... : subject variated from lemm49g to exal or something. The body of the : : Julio Cesar. All That sh*t(sorry for the bad word) is Sircam. ==== And the fact that it has taken you this long to figure out that I'm talking about numbers displayed as is points to the same problem with your understanding. What you are arguing about is different than what I am. Ok, let me repeat for the last time that I never said anything to this effect. You may have interpreted it that way though. This whole debate has no basis because we were never debating the same thing in the first place. I was arguing with the understanding that we were talking about binary floating point numbers displayed and a subset of operations performed as is on decimal fractions. I guess you are arguing with the premise that we are talking about binary floating point numbers displayed at a lower precision than they are stored. is talking about something totally different. In his case he assumed we were debating with the premise that our floating point numbers were represented in binary but the *base* was 10. At any rate, extending this conversation any further is pointless. I will now put this thread on ignore. Bye bye, Jonathan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== Please read the posts and understand them before making a fool of yourself. I am sick of continuing this argument because of people misinterpreting what I say. In fact, this whole argument has no foundation but for the initial misunderstandings among it's participants. Bye, I will no longer participate in this conversation. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== Well, if *everybody* misinterpret what you are saying, maybe the problem is elsewhere don't you think ? ==== out they were misinterpreting each other too. I'm not the only one. Read the other posts and you'll see that there are *three* distinct interpretations of binary floating point in this debate. Up until recently *none* of us realized that we were talking about something different. That is why I said this debate is totally worthless because, well, there is no debate in the first place. :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== I'm wandering from where can I download the AUR for the HP 48G, or if I have to buy it. If it's true, where can I shop it -online, because I live in Colombia-? Camilo ==== You can download it at www.hpcalc.org It's a 16Mb download, take your time. http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/misc/hp48gug.zip Diego.- ==== It's just HP 48G Series User's Guide. I think the AUR is not available on the intrnet -- http://193.145.89.239/~rblasco/ Un222os, hermanos linuxeros 640 Kb de memoria son m207s que suficientes (IBM AT Designers - 1982) Bueno, espero que esto no aparezca en la versi227n final (Bill Gates en la presentaci227n de Windows Crash Debug '98) ==== As far as I know, it's not available in electronic format. I don't know how convenient these sources are for you, but http://www.calcpro.com/ lists it for US$29.95, and http://www.samsoncables.com/ for US$49.95 (used) or US$75.00 (and no, I don't understand why CalcPro is so much less). You could try the other ways to buy link from http://www.hp.com/calculators/accessories/other.html, or try the dealers listed at http://www.hpcalc.org/links.php. Occasionally, this item shows up for auction at eBay. Good luck, James ==== Hope there is a happy ending! How about turning this into an adventure game for the 49G? :) BTW, is the 2002 HHC still scheduled for Sep next year? I couldn't attend the last one (too busy in Sep), but I might go for it in 2002, considering there are pretty cheap flights from here to London... -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== What follows is just a funny but real incident, the author is free to use it in order to spice up a little the storyline: given a kraft carton box with Texas Instruments Dallas, Texas 75251 blah, blah, blah 89/CLM/1E3/B QTY3 Made in Taiwan Huh??? I was panic striken. An error in my order? Even 3 TI89?s can?t cope up with a 48! It turned out to be that this box once contained 3 TI89?s but at the time was protecting the precious 48 and it?s friends (cable, memory card)... ==== [ 22:03 11 / 19 / 2031 ] [WASHINGTON DC ] [ TI HEADQUARTERS ] [ the black square building was surrounded by walking robots. Each had a calculator on top working as a brain. A long line of dump trucks queued at the main gate. They were filled with plastic and metal scraps from which new calculators were made.] [hidden by the darkness of the night, William climbed to one of the dump trucks and waited in silence meanwhile the truck made its way through the gate] [[ mother server located at: - 2 level ]] [indicated the display of his HP49G (inside the building)] [ he heard the noise (servos) of a robot coming towards him in the other side of a corner ] [ he raised his hand - holding the HP49G-, waiting for the robot to show its face] [BOOM!!, he smashed the HP49G against the TI brain (calculator) of the robot. The TI calc splashed into pieces like a broken glass of wine. The HP49G didn't even scratched] [[ preparing ... decoding ... ]] [[ log-in successful ]] [ a metal door opened, the break-in security algorithm had worked to perfection ] [ the room was full of flashing lights and beeps, it was the mother server!! ] [ he heard a voice on the other side of the room] [ taken by surprise, He couldn't believe he was staring at the president of TI ] To be continued ... ==== What? No dancing girl as the president of TI? ;-) Greetings, ==== [ TI'S MOTHER SERVER ROOM ] [ William is confronted by the president of TI ] [ william is speechless] [ I knew you would made till here. I didn't need to look for you. I just waited, and here you are.] [(silence)] [(TI's president starts talking again) we live in a world of life and death, some survive, some don't. Hps were the best, but that does not guaranty life. The strong takes advantage over the weak. That is why we chose kids as our food. Kids are easy to manipulate. Mathematics. Why the pain? Why the suffering? Automatic simplification was the answer. Make them look smart, and they will buy.] [ TI's president turns his back to william. He reaches his face with his hand and pulls his face out ( he is a robot!!).] [ BEEP] [BEEP] [BEEP] [BEEP] .. [ william pulls his HP49G from his pocket] [ there is a message for you, says william. He handles the HP49G to the robot ] (*author: be careful william, the HP49G is priceless) [his telescoping eyes focus on the display] [[ you are the result of my thoughts]] [flashing] [[ my son ]] [william observed the robot immobile] [what did it mean?] [the robot seems to get angry] [the robot shoots a cutting laser in an attempt to destroy the HP49G] [the 'display cover' of the HP49G * reflects * the cutting laser into the robot's eyes] [the robot drops dead] [william connects the HP49G to the mother server] [[ Activating system ... ... Detecting presence of TIs mother server ... .. Starting routine packet #001 sent Packet #002 sent .. .. . [ lights start to shut down in the room one by one] [the beeps stop] [everything gets quiet] [students across the world start to think again] [william stands still, looking at the HP49G] [terminator 2 music starts to play] [THE END] ==== ROFL. Congrats! :-) -- Colin Croft Old mathematicians never die; they just lose some of their functions. ====================================== Applications in Mathematics ccroft@iinet.net.au http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/ ====================================== ==== [A brilliant piece of theatry, up there with Shakespeare and his like...] Is it just me, or does anybody else get the urge to play all episodes of Spacequest all over again... Ray ==== When can we expect the sequel? Will the Great-Incompatible be in the cast? ;-) Greetings, ==== ... Simply brilliant!!! Carlos J. Bourlot C227rdoba, Argentina ==== Ditto - brilliant - great ending. Gather it together and upload it to hpcalc.org SW archive for their humour section. Full marks. ==== Ah Hah! An Isaac Asimov fan I am sure! Great stuff. Geoff ==== Karagiaouroglou says... well, i already thought of making a new one (rough sketches). but this week and the next week i have tons of exams. your presence would create interference. i would have to wrap you up in aluminum foil. thanks to everybody for the compliments : ) ==== Bravo! Encore! -- It's a conspiracy? Ha! That's exactly what they WANT you to think! http://pweb.jps.net/~joehorn http://my-vcard.com/joehorn ==== LOL!! :-D Nick in aluminium foil, pretending to be an isolated ideal radiator :-) ==== [[BEEP-O-BOPP]] Message received... [[BEEP,BEEP]] [[ Please Enter Your Name: ]] Nick Karagiaouroglou [[BPMGSFGT!!-What is this?]] [[FATAL ERROR..GRMPSFGLGLGLGLGL!!!]] [[Recovering from crash]] [[Starting transmission from the 49G-Continuum]] Send a message to the BORG containg my name. They will crash with no hope for recovery. Or move to the continuum. This dimension is too small for us. [[Ending transmission]] Greetings, Q- ;-) ==== And with Mathematica 10.0 pre-installed? ;-) Greetings, ;-) ==== Does anyone have any information on the new '49 input form engine, accessible via the ^IfMain flashpointer? I know it is more or less compatible with the old DoInputForm one. At least the arguments are the same. But I've found that simply changing DoInputForm to ^IfMain is not always good, there are small incompatibilities. There are also some new features, such as minifont fields. Also, the messages sent to message handlers seem to have changed totally. Cyrille de Brebisson has in site a document that explains how to use the Debug2 IDE to create one, but I'm looking for information on how to create one manually. At least, how to use the new features. -- Eduardo M Kalinowski http://move.to/hpkb ==== IÇve written a program for my own purpose which relies heavily on ^IfMain (actually I use ^IfMain2 which is a lot *faster* as ^IfMain, but you have to precompile the arguments for ^IfMain and create a program from it, which was pretty tricky, but once you have understood how it works it is worth the effort and really fast). My source is well documented, but unfortunately all in German. Yes. If youÇre interested, I can send you the code-parts concerning the manually creation of ^IfMain(2), but it might be hard to read :-) And maybe you know a way how to put my prog on hpcalc, since I canÇt connect to the server (might be my fault, wrong settings in my dial-up Internet connetcion or something). AM ==== Well, I speak a little bit of German... Please do, everything concerning that is welcome. Sometimes the site is down... -- Eduardo M Kalinowski http://move.to/hpkb ==== [ THE VENICE DEALER ] little palpitating like a circus drum. He seemed possessed by a restless spirit awaiting judment.] [ Two man appeared at the door. they looked around, verifying that there was nobody else present. They started walking towards him. ] [ Did you bring the money? Asked one of the two man (strong Italian accent).] [ Yes. replied the short man staring at the square box up in one the man's hand.] [ Is that the Xpander? asked promptly. ] [ Yes. The man shook the box indicating the presence of an object inside. ] [ The short man pulled out a big bundle of green $100 bills.] [ Count them if you want. There are $3000. ] [ That is not necessary. We know. ] [ They made the exchange, and the two men disappeared like smoke. ] right. ] [ He was looking at a black TI calculator. ] To be continued... ==== Hallo, sorry fr the title but i need to know if solve linear system on HP49G can accept rational numbers on matrix editing:i explain, i try to solve a matrix system like AX=B i put on A matrix the number 10/3 but it rejects , it seems in matrix better in matrix working with the linear system solver i can't put rational numbers with the flash / IT IS ABSURD Can someone tell me what can i do????? ==== Since 10/3 is a symbolic object it must be surrounded by the symbolic object delimiters: '10/3'. Greetings, -0600) ==== If you mean algebraic (symbolic) solutions, I pass, but if you mean multiple *numeric* solutions over an interval, the ROOTS program should do it: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8hnn71%24hud%241%40nnrp1.deja.com Numeric answers could be evaluated back to symbolic with ->Qpi etc. [r->] [OFF] ==== Until then, don't call this command when not on a delimiter. - Carsten JF> With all flags set to defaults... JF> When editing JF> :: < JF> ; JF> @ JF> where < is the location of your cursor, press LSH-{<-->} twice fast. JF> Since all flags are set to default, you'll get two beeps and nothing JF> untoward will happen. If the only change is that you are in RPN mode, JF> you *won't* get two beeps and pressing enter immediately after will JF> give you a nice TTRM. Note: the lack of a space between :: and ; JF> is important, but little else appears to be. LSH-{<-->} is supposed JF> to fold the current secondary. I've done the described many times in JF> various ways to make sure it's repeatable, so hopefully it actually JF> *is* repeatable for you. JF> (For the curious: I backed everything up in preparation for some JF> SysRPLing, and got distracted with learning a bit more about Emacs. JF> Good timing on this bug!) ==== now! especially since my preliminary efforts towards a long-press compiling ENTER key have told me this: looks hard. ==== James, I got it at Staples last Wednesday. The list price is $149.99, but it was on sale for $99.99 (and SiPix had a $20 rebate, but that was good only until 11/30). I saw in a discussion group on the A6 that someone found it for $79.99. I downloaded this document, and checked that my cables are mapping the pins properly. The document shows on page 4 the pins for the DB9 and DB8. I connected my cable that came with the HP49 (F1906-66000, with the F1633-66001 adaptor to go to the 48)to a DB9 gender changer, and then to the DB9 end of the A6 printer cable (because the A6 cable and the HP cable both have DB9 female ends). I used an ohmmeter to verify that the ground, TX, and RX pins of the 4-pin connector that inserts into the HP48GX map into the ground, TX, and RX pins on the DB8, respectively (i.e., using the diagram on p.4 of this document, pin 2 at the HP 48 end maps to pin 3 at the DB8 end; pin 3 at the HP48 end maps to pin 5 at the DB8 end, and pin 4 at the HP48 end maps to pin 4 at the DB8 end). The pins do map in this manner. I previously tried connecting the HP 48GX and HP49 to my one of my computer COM ports via a DB9 to DB25 adaptor at the computer. I opened a terminal window for this COM port and printed from the HP48GX and HP49 to the terminal window successfully. This worked even when I set the COM port speed to 115200 bps (this is the A6 printer speed). I can try interchanging the TX and RX pins when connecting to the A6, but will have to make a cable to do this (unless they are sold somewhere). The printer is supposed to receive through the IR port at 2.4, 9.6, 19.2, 38.4, 57.6, and 115.2 kbit/s. There seems to be no way to set anything on the printer. On the HP 48GX, it is not completely clear how to set the baud rate when printing via the IR port. There is no setting on the print menu when IR is chosen, nor any flag for this. The only setting I could find is when doing left shift followed by I/O and then choosing IOPAR. A baud rate selection appears above the second function key; one can enter 2400 and then select baud. However, this seems to mainly affect the baud rate setting on the print menu when wire mode is selected. Is there a way to set the baud rate on the HP48 for IR transfer? suggesting that the HP48 is IrDA compliant at 2400. However, so far I have not been able to make this work. I downloaded this manual. Possibly I would be helped if I could get a similar manual for the A6. However, SiPix has nothing on their web site, nor have I been able to find anything on the web so far. I presume they must make such information available in some manner as they have partners who develop software to use with the A6 to connect to other devices. Geoff ==== After visiting the SiPix web site, it occurs to me that this printer probably doesn't have any built-in fonts (MS Windows or Palm OS required). That is, it can't print one character per byte of data, but requires some sort of graphics data. If they'll provide you with enough information about what format the data has to be in for the printer to use it, then it may be possible to write software to translate a GROB to whatever the printer requires. Also, from their User's Guide, I get the impression that the serial port is 115200 bps only; if so, then you're out of luck on using the serial port. For the benefit of anyone else who might be interested, visit http://www.sipix.com/pocket_printer.shtml. Also note that the rebate on their site is good on purchases through December 31st, 2001; see http://www.sipix.com/ppa6_rebate.pdf. It seems to me that the paper is rather expensive, though. The 8-pin connector shown on page 4 is for connecting to a Macintosh. I wouldn't count on your printer's connector being the same. In any case, you need to have the calculator's Transmit connected to the printer's Receive, and the calculator's Receive connected to the printer's Transmit. For experimental purposes, I'd find some wire that could fit the DB9 female connectors without damaging them. Try 2 (Transmit) of each DB9 to 3 (Receive) of the other DB9, and 5 (Signal Ground) to 5. You may be able to find a modem eliminator in kit form, that is, two DB9 connectors that you wire together yourself, and the shell and hardware to hold them. Try RadioShack or someplace like that. Several years ago I made a couple for something or other; a bit bulkier than the typical gender changer - maybe two inches long. Of course, a cable would also work. I see that their User's Guide says to use hardware flow control and makes no mention of software flow control, so it's best to leave transmit/receive pacing off and hope for the best. I don't know whether it's possible to make the 48 series IrDA compliant by software alone; it might require hardware changes. Many users would certainly appreciate it if it can be done. No (at least not with UserRPL). IR I/O is 2400 baud, no parity, no XON/XOFF pacing; those parameters in IOPAR are ignored when in IR mode. The HP 48 series predates the founding of the IrDA (see http://www.irda.org/about/index.asp), so it would've been difficult to comply with this standard that didn't yet exist. I believe that he made an unwarranted assumption. However, if the IrDa device supports the optional IrCOMM protocol, or it can use IR I/O similar to the calculator's relatively simple format instead of IrDA, then it may be able to communicate with the 48. It would be nice, but perhaps they don't realize that it would be to their advantage to make this information available. It looks to me as if this printer can't be made to work with these calculators, but let us know if you have any luck. James ==== can get more information on the A6. I do have 2 minor questions, though: 1) You indicated that if the printer serial port is only 115200 bps, then I'm out of luck. However, when I tested sending data from the HP48 or 49 to my PC's COM port via the print command, I set the COM port speed to 115200 bps, and it worked. Does this mean that the PC actually adapts to whatever speed the incoming data is, regardless of the COM port setting? 2) You said the paper for the A6 seems rather expensive. The per roll cost seems similar to that of the HP82240B (I saw a cost of 6 rolls for $16.95 for the 82240B, versus 4 rolls for $9.95 for the A6). Are the rolls for the HP printer larger? I'm asking this because I would consider, as a last resort, trying to get the 82240B and at least being able to use it with the 48GX, unless there are any other options? (The 82240B seems rather expensive -- around $140 plus $40 for the AC adapter, plus extra for a case if you want that; the A6 included all of this). Geoff ==== Apparently so. I've wondered about the same thing. I can set HyperTerminal anywhere from 110 to 921600 bps, with or without flow control, and it still correctly captures whatever I print to it. I'm hoping that your printer can do this too. The HP 82175A rolls are 5.7 cm X 25m (2.25 in. X 80 ft.) (about 2 in. (5 cm) diameter). I usually use NCR or Perfect print brand paper from a local office supply store; of course, HP recommends its own paper, but I've had no problems using these brands. Avoid AMPAD brand paper though, because the print is hard to read - light purple instead of black. The last time I bought paper, they were out of stock on the usual size, so I bought 2.25 in. X 155 ft. (about 2.75 in. diameter) Perfect print rolls and rewound part of it onto empty cores - $4.89 plus tax for 3 rolls. Yes, it seems rather expensive to me too. Note that http://www.samsoncables.com/ currently has a used 82240B printer listed for $75, and you can probably get the printer and AC adapter on eBay at half or less of the list price. Don't buy an 82240A printer to use with a 48 because it doesn't have the same character set. Also note that if you can SEND the variable from the 49G to the 48, then you can print it to the 82240B from there. But note that there are some problems with this, for example, the new 49G object types will error out on the 48. ==== Also, I remember having seen a program on hpcalc.org which makes a 48 connected via serial to a 49G act as a print server for the 49. Unfortunately, I can't find it any more. :( If you have a PC, you could also use Jarno Peschier's 82240B printer emulation. Of course, this not really a portable solution (I doubt that the program will work on a palmtop). -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== There are two unsupported entry points of ROM 1.19-6 that particularly interest me: OBJ>R and R>OBJ, as described in the entry reference. Unfortunately, I have to enter these as PTR xxxxx to use them -- which would be fine if I had a big file of DEFINEs that I included into a source, and which is also not so fine when, for SysRPL, I use objects as my 'source' -- so when I look back at a program I'm never sure what a given PTR xxxxx is. I don't know how to extend extable to have these (OT49 doesn't seem to want to split the whole library...) and I don't like the 'big file of DEFINEs' idea, as this won't help me interpret a given PTR. So... I've been thinking, and here are some ideas: 1. Have Emacs, say, translate all instances of OBJ>R, etc -- outside of a string or other object? -- to PTR xxxxx when recompiling an object, and do the reverse when decompiling. I could use a simple list in HOME for the database. 2. Have a key do this manually, toggling between R>OBJ and PTR xxxxx. 3. Have a key toggle what's *underneath the cursor*, as a perhaps simple alternative. OK. The way objects are decompiled, the decompilation of xxxxx to OBJ>R could just check that the line contains only some heading spaces and PTR xxxxxn (to use C syntax), but recompilation seems nontrivial: how do I distinguish between ID R>OBJ, R>OBJ, and R>OBJ ? I search back for ID, but what about R>OBJ? Write a bloody parser? (Of course, I could use MASD's own parser by letting ASM compile the source and checking for where it errors to translate, but that seems just as mad.) Does anyone else have ideas? Right now I'm leaning toward #3. It'd be *reeely* convenient if I could just add entries to extable. Is there documentation for extable at all? -0600) ==== Consider making a common library of popular but unsupported entry points; said library would, of course, very likely need to be revised to match different ROM versions, but at least users of the common library would need to revise only this new common library, and would not need to recompile all other libraries which use the common library. Now all you need is a Common Library maintainer/updater, an add my favorite unsupported entry point to the library request form, a where is/was entry point xxxxx in ROM version yy-y researcher, etc. etc. :) -[]- ==== JF> There are two unsupported entry points of ROM 1.19-6 that particularly JF> interest me: OBJ>R and R>OBJ, as described in the entry JF> reference. [...] I guess, the best way to deal with this is to follow Thomas' advice and try to figure out how to make a new extable which contains the more useful unsupported but stable pointers like OBJ>R and R>OBJ (I love these too). In the meas time, Emacs has two ways of helping to use unsupported pointers. The first is special completion. If you install the 'cpltab' file on your calc, then you can type .R and press the RPLCPL key. This completes from the list of unsupported but stable pointers in 'cpltab'. Note the dot as first character, which triggers the special completion. Emacs.txt explains how to use this, and you can also configure it to work right if you are using defines. The second help is in SDIAG. If you press the SDIAG key with the cursor on the number part of PTR 2B8E6, you get (R>OBJ) -> ob SDIAG contains names and stack diagrams for the non-trivial unsupported but stable pointers in the entry database, stored not under its name but its address. I did not include the unsupported BINTS from Wolfgangs list since there are so many, and since using EDOB to decompile them immediately shows what they are. But R>OBJ and similar pointers are listed. Hope this helps - Carsten ==== *Yes* =) <3C0BFC39.A8060E1E@iname.com> <76ea4fd3.0112040521.7b13ed20@posting.google.com> ==== OMG. Now I guess I have to hack it. *sigh* ;-) Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them. ==== Have you ever wanted to get an awesome graphing/scientific calculator? Now's your chance! Just a few hours ago I put a HP 48GX up for bid on ebay. I just used this calculator to get an A in both Physics and Chemistry! I have added a program to this calculator that shows the ENTIRE Periodic Table!!! It give the atomic weight and everything that you would need. This comes with manual and case with screen protection shield. This also includes the PC Connection Kit which normally costs $35 itself! Right now the current bid is only $1! To bid on the calculator go to http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1306186101 Happy Biding! Jason ==== Isn't it frustrating when you find a great program for your HP 48GX just to find out that you don't have enough memory free? Don't left that happen to you again!!! Just a few hours ago I placed a 1 Meg Memory Card, for the HP 48GX, up for bid on ebay. It is the actual HP 1 Meg card, not some no name brand that will go bad. Right now, if bought in the store it would cost over $345!!! But right now, you can bid on it on eBAY. Right now the current bid is ONLY $1!!!!! This 1 Meg memory card from HP 48GX will give you all the memory you need for that awesome program or game. This is the largest card made for the HP 48GX! There are some non-HP memory cards that do work, for a while, but they can fail and then you are stuck with a card that doesn't work. Don't let that happen to you! Get the REAL thing. To bid on the card just go to http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1306195046 Don't the the Out of Memory monster get you again!!! Jason -0600) ==== Where it says: This 1 Meg memory card for HP 48GX or HP 48SX... What can you do with a 1 Meg card in an HP48SX? Larger, close-up picture (is this it?): http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005JGD4.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg Is that the Epson new look? (Does the card still have a sliding shutter over the end contacts?) The actual price from HP is moot, because the Buy online from HP at HP Shopping is no more; here's a response from HP about it: ----- Quote from hpshopping.com (Cory Bury) ----- We apologize for all inconveniences this may have caused you. Unfortunately, this item is not currently available through HPShopping.com. However, I have provided some hypertext links to alternate vendors who may still carry this item: http://www.gadgetnook.com/g/Golden_Ram/ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/660982/2/ref%3Dbr%5Fppmr%5F2/t /102-7150671-7094509 http://www.lasergenie.com/ind.html http://www.wholesaleadvantage.com/hpcalcs_content.html ----- End quote ----- Do you mean the No Room in Port monster? -[]- ==== Yes, I guess you are right. Jack ==== Because you seemed to suggest, that binary is less accurate than than same size BCD, which of course is nonsense in general case of representing approximation of real numbers. Not that this fact require any secret, deep knowledge. To the contrary, it is just minimal basic knowledge about floating point representation combined with common sense. Here, I absolutely agree. Jack ==== Do you know any facts to back that up? -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== I try hard to get a hp49g that was produced in china. The resellers in switzerland all say they (still!) only get indonesian hp49s from hewlett-packard. If any one out there has found a place in europe to buy a chinese hp, please tell me!!! thanx dino ==== Barry escreveu nas not222cias de mensagem:3be96b37_5@goliath2.newsgroups.com... : > : > If you assume it's going to be 2-3 years before a new calculator : gets to the : > market we can assume that the PDA's will by then be fully : functional windows : > devices. You'll able to run apps lick Mathcad, Maple etc with : the only : > restrictions being screen real estate and hardware interface : (touch screen : > limited keys. Any new calculator would have to compete with : these and be : > sufficiently different in functionality to compete. : : I have Derive, Mathcad and Matlab for my HP 200lx. The version of : Derive I have was designed with the lx in mind. I'm not sure about : the others but they work just fine. I don't have any need for : these and my math is limited so I can't judge how they compare to : the HP49. But they are certainly available in an HP49 size package : with a screen about 3 times the size of the 49 screen and a QWERTY : keyboard with a numeric keypad. (too small for touch typing). And : good old HP sturdiness and reliability. : : The 200lx is almost exactly the same size as the 49G. It will fit : (snugly) in the HP48 soft case. It's a PC that uses 2 AA batteries : and gets about 40 hours from them and weighs 11 ounces including : batteries. Rechargebles are fine. There is a recharger built in. : It only knows how to charge standard Nicads but there is free : software downloadble to control the charging in various ways. It : can recharge the 1600 mah NIMH just fine. : : It also has Lotus 123 version 2.4 (complete) in rom, along with a : lot of PDA apps, more powerful ones than are available in newer : PDAs. Dos 5.0 is in ROM. Also Quicken, CC:Mail and an HP : bussiness calculator (which talks to Lotus). Several full sets of : internet software are available. Some free, some not. Several : cards for wireless access are avaliable, as are modem cards. It : has infra-red. A group of users are now looking into the possibity : of Bluetooth. The power supplied to the PCMCIA port is limited so : this may or may not work. With a Parallel port PCMCIA card it : works fine with a Zip drive. : : It also runs Microsoft Flight Simulator 4.0, Word Perfect 5.1, : dBase 3+, Paradox, most older compilers of most languages and a : world of commercial games. All that and it fit's in my pocket. It : also has a PCMCIA slot. I have a 160 meg flash card. It's my A: : drive. it would be cool to install windows 3.0(3.1?2.0?) on it or linux to play with soffice :-). do u use a modem on it? what about installing internet explorer 2.0/3.0 for Win3.11 and word 2.0/ mirc (2.1? 4.0? 5.02?) on it? i am using mirc 5.02 on a 486 w/8 mb ram and 240 meg hdd. : They don't make them anymore but they're available all over the : place and they supply seems to be increasing as time goes by. ==== I would say I wouldn't use the TI-89 because of it's vertical layout, good if we could have a choice between the horizontal and vertical layouts, just as TI has provided. Bhuvanesh. ==== I think students could have some problems to use these calcs in examsYes. It's the best solution xD -- ==== A more sensible method to convert the restricted set of HP48 SysRPL programs that I described would be to use emu48 on a computer and Tim Wessman's extable switcher -- a totally rediculous technology for on-calc development, but simple and harmless when used in an emulator. Just decompile the program under one extable and recompile it with another. ==== Hmm, I hope that I'll eventually have the opportunity to visit your country. I know some researchers there I'd like to work with. Do you know Tampere University (TUT)? Any recommended places to visit thereabouts? Albert -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== How long does it take? For comparison, the TI-89/92+ SkyMap program takes about 35 seconds to do all its calculations. Bhuvanesh. ==== A very nice side effect of Rcobo wrapping me in aluminium foil, to protect his maschines from interference, is that flames can't do much harm to me. ;-) (Special aluminium foil, with micro robots that extinct flames ;-) ) Greetings, ==== I mean that it is not very realistic to say, for example to a professional creative, that he should learn the programming language with which his/her tools were made, in order to make the tools better. It is enough that the creative has to learn all those things that allow him for example to manipulate images. Albert Graef already provided a link. The comparisons may show that for many things the HP49G is faster. But it is the TI hardware that has the potential to make (efficiently written) software run much more faster in the future. Yes, the HP49G is a great little wonder, but it is a pity to let its built-in software run on such archaic hardware. Somehow they steal its air to breath. I mean *also* RPL. But besides I mean the big number of built-in solvers, the CAS, the flash memory, the way that it interacts with the user, and most of all, the great flexibility and the numberous possibilities to use it and control it. Oh no, tasks that were considered too complicated for any speed a couple on years ago, now run on eveyr desktop. Well, discussions never stay focused on only one thing. (And it is good that way. :) ) Make the hardware faster and the time to complete the task will be shorter. Except of course if we want to examine the movement of sky objects in real time. ;-) Greetings, ==== Looking at just StarMaHP, the time to plot a skymap depends on my 'watermark' for star brightness. I can get one instantly if I only look at bright stars, or one in a minute (could someone else check this? I'm not being exact.) if I go for the most stars possible. You say all its calculations; what does that mean? StarMaHP has a number of functions and calculations it can make, and a skymap is only one of them. ==== says... by that time the TI will be a 'maraca' NK can withstand the strongest winds. ( he is from Greece ) SON: daddy, daddy, look! there are birds circling around that house. DAD: the house is running Windows (full of bugs). ==== Developing optimized software requires much man time, and thus is expensive. Provided that TI has already achieved their targets for the calculator market, it's unlikely that they're going to write faster software for existing calcs. They can either: a) go on selling the current products with minor tweaks (silver editions and the like...) b) develop a new design to force a market cycle (hardware has higher margins) c) ..? who knows what's boiling down in TI's R&D labs? One sure thing is that they have won the graphing calculator wars and there are no dangerous opponents who can enter the market any time soon: they can ponder a lot before doing the next move. yes, go thank Intel and AMD for that. PCs are completely different, they are open systems while graphing calculators are closed system with a fraction of the production volume that PCs have. ==== X Well not quite that simple: the hardware must be tested AND the Voltage just might have to go down BUT basically, yes! At least they don't have to redesign the Saturn to Saturn II. So no actual Intelligence is needed. To be more strict in this: The current manufacture of the Yorke (=NEC?) could do this down-scaling while HP should run the tests. I'm now smiling with a mixture of sarcasm and hope :-/ waiting for HP to kick out Curly Furiona and going back to The HP Way and revoke the Saturn line with a HP 49G XP X=10 (#Ah) times the P=Power AND notice: the power consumption might go even down OR at worst it stays the same (depends on voltage and other circuitry parameters on 0.25um) , always optimistic (or death:) ==== SkyMap takes about 12 seconds for bright stars, and about 35 seconds for the most stars possible. The StarMaHP documentation says that it takes nearly 2 minutes to plot a map of the evening sky; is this correct? SkyMap calculates and shows on a sky map the positions of the sun, moon, planets and stars. It has RA, declination, azimuth, altitude, visual magnitude, Greenwich hour angle, and a few other things. It has corrections for things like parallax, aberration, refraction, and light time. For the sun, moon, and planets, it also provides location in ecliptic coordinates, distance from Earth, distance from Sun, elongation, phase angle, phase, and visual magnitude. Bhuvanesh. ==== Cool. I don't have SkyMaHP anymore, so I can't answer. 12 seconds for 'bright stars' seems longer than I remember for SkyMaHP, but that depends on what you call a bright star. 35 seconds is certainly superior speed. I think Urania handles what you describe, but mostly not SkyMaHP. It does handle ecliptics, and blinking of constellations, and selective drawing of non-star bodies (you tell it that you want the moon, or jupiter, etc). SkyMaHP also figures rise/set times, and allows the drawing of arbitrarily dated skies. ==== I would add: d) Some people that use the TIs are going to make its software better and add new functionality and make it faster, and, and... Just like the HP49G. One of these people participates here. Bhuvanesh, tell more about this. ;-) The history of what is possible is much the same with PCs and calcs, if one considers only technology. I wouldn't even dream of calcs with alphanumeric capabilitites when I was in school. But then came th 41. After this, I wouldn't even dream of graphing calcs. Too complicated, too difficult blah, blah, but then the 28 came out. And it could also do symbolic math. Not much but you get the idea. Despite processor and architecture differences, it was always too difficult things that came true. Of course you are right considering also the production volume, because technology alone is not enough for a company when it comes down to sales. Greetings, ==== On 6 Dec 2001 03:44:33 -0800, nk@imos-consulting.com (Nick Karagiaouroglou) Sorry. When I said too complicated to run with any speed, what I *really* meant was algorithms that occur to me at the moment couldn't be implemented with any practicality using the technology available to me with the HP49G, because I'm very impatient and fear that annoyance might lower my general enjoyment of life, leading to tragic newsworthy incidents. It's certainly true that software grows to make hardware obsolete =) ==== try this: create a program and store as 5A. This will give an error. It is not possible. but. store it as A and rename it to 5A works fine. Bug or feature? I would say both, because I do not like restrictions, like a variable must start with a charakter :-) On the other hand, some programs might have problems with 5A, eg. purge and hide from OT49, while the build in PURGE is working and the build in HIDE is not existing. ..Heiko My 4 years old son prefers the HP49 against a sunpowered TI ;-) ==== Then there's still hope. :) Some time ago I bought a cheapo TI-30 for my oldest son s.t. he can enjoy a scientific calc as soon as they're allowed to use them. Taking another look at this piece of cr*p (--Where are the TIs of old? They used to be a lot better.--) I realized that instead I'll pass on my 32s as soon as he's up to it. Maybe the TI can still be useful as an adder machine when shopping. ;-) -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== In addition: Go to the filer and create a new directory. Name it something that contains blanks. For example My Directory or Here I stored my files. It works. And another addition. The command S~N will make a name out of *any* string. You can even name a variable SIN or some other built-in function. I think that if you do so, then if such variables are in the current path, then they are evaluated instead of the built-in commands. (Is that right?) So you could have a general built-in sine function and a special one (program in a variable named SIN) that only works in particular path. Greetings, P.S. There are also exceptions. I wouldn't advice you to name any variable like my family name. TTRM of the calc or your mind may occure. ;-) ==== You can also make files with style (italic, underline, etc) by creating a string and then using the SysRPL $>ID entry. Just save the following to a variable in HOME somewhere, for your use: :: CK1 DUPTYPECSTR? NOT?SEMI $>ID ; @ ASM ...which is totally safe. <76ea4fd3.0112070528.463d853@posting.google.com> ==== JF> You can also make files with style (italic, underline, etc) by creating JF> a string and then using the SysRPL $>ID entry. Just save the following JF> to a variable in HOME somewhere, for your use: JF> :: CK1 DUPTYPECSTR? NOT?SEMI $>ID ; JF> @ ASM JF> ...which is totally safe. Actually, S~N seems to be safer since it checks that the string is not longer than 127 character. :-) - Carsten ==== On 07 Dec 2001 15:01:16 +0100, Carsten Dominik I'm glad then that I removed the I promise. =) ==== Is there not a possibility to renew the Alarm System in OS to Support an Automatic Virtual Stack invoking It is already used by the system I just hope that JYA would include this possibility in the create alarm inform, if he still can. comments? X X ==== anybody knows whether jazz will be updated to work with 1.19-6 ? Greetings, Marco ==== I'm proud to announce the releasing of the two document upgrades above (I've just uploaded to hpcalc.org, so I hope Eric will upload them tomorrow or so...) A brief description of what the upgrade involve follows: Flags 1.2: - Text revision and graphic adjustments (thanks also to Marco Salvagno). - Flag 60 added (thanks to Ralf Fritzsch) Reserved Names 1.1: - English text revised - Vectored ENTER, local compiled name and plot variables added (thanks also to Nouiasen) - *PAR family and CST structure added. You should download this new release especially for the last aspect. Hope you'll be satisfied with the new documents. If you find errors, please report them to me. As always let me know also about any idea, information ==== (I've also You mean: Nousiainen please or ==== nyVO7.13245$yE5.1004660@news20.bellglobal.com... be I found what was wrong with the UNDO and it is now working properly. I sent an updated version to HPCalc.org and it should become available as soon as Eric updates his site. Alain ==== What is the current distribution license with XCELL. Will the author mind if we modify its program ? XCELL ==== I was trying the library on my machine and was pretty impressed. Then, out of the blue, the screen flashed and the calculator went off and refused to turn on. I was forced to reset it and lost almost all my memory. What can be wrong? ============================================================ Paolo Cavallo I am a teacher at heart, and there are moments in the classroom when I can hardly hold the joy. P. J. Palmer, 1998 paolo.cavallo@iperbole.bologna.it http://www.alberghetti.it/paolo.cavallo/pc.htm ============================================================ EMERGENCY - UNO STRACCIO DI PACE - www.emergency.it ==== copyright. have Actually - if your hardware has the keys that wear away (early ID93...) you just need to scap a little bit more and voila! Nearly perfect TI-89 keys are relieved underneath!! AND The same goes with the case colouring: just use a fine sandpaper on it!! You will be suprised !! ;-) ==== [/HUMOUR] Well, seriously, I do have one of the early ID93... machines and the keys are not *that* bad. However, having just bought a 48GX on ebay, I must say that those keys simply feel better. -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== On Fri, 7 Dec 2001 05:21:31 +0100, Albert Graef ID94 here. Sometimes, though, I start to use my calculator and get a little apprehensive about how comfortable the keys are -- they're so soft to the touch, yet sturdy, and are very pleasant to use. That can't be normal! ==== place. I'm now using a cable modem (instead of 64K ISDN) and the speed goes from 64K up to (theoretical) 10Mbs Nousiainen ==== Don't ==== the lot he'll just bear in mind in most of europe the 48GX is banned on most tests, because of the IR. teachers seem not to realise the limited range of the IR. now my bit to stick up for TI If you want to solve a differential equation on 49G let alone a 48G, press the enter key then go make a coffee and watch the gears spin until the answer eventually appears with hideous constants everywhere that you need eyeball for. I agree RPL is a better language as its way quicker, but bear in mind the TI's speed more than makes up for this. As for the chosen few, My personal view is that a TI-89 and Lars Frederiksen's RPN package is more than a match for a 49G (thats in interface not programming language and add ons). sv ==== If you can afford to keep it then keep it and by a HP 49G if you don't have the money or you think that your calculating days are over the this is a tough one BUT I would still advice you to buy a HP 49G (and your friend, too :) ==== I'm not talking about speed at all. Does TI Basic have functional parameters? Well, maybe, but does it support Currying? Are functions first-class citizens, i.e., can you manipulate functions as objects, or even create new functions on the fly? The point is, RPL is really a powerful language, it let's you do all these things. (Of course you will not miss this stuff for simple numeric algorithms.) -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== I will buy one, thanks. That's why I want to sell my HP48... Nousiainen a 216crit dans le message de French between my ==== <3C0E53B4.512E3152@fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr> <3C0E5F62.A80F2978@iname.com> -0600) ==== Nick fumed: There's lots of (often useful) missing documentation for almost every product that was designed by people who were much more creative than their professional writers :) Too much information, marketers say, also makes a product appear too complicated, so better to keep quiet about it (or hide it in Easter Eggs, which makes the customer feel smarter for having found it himself :) How much explanation can fit in the Flag Browser, anyway? I have an unpublished flag browser which shows much more info, by using a tiny 1-pixel font, but no one seems to take it seriously :) [r->] [OFF] ==== ascending: near 0. Because you would select that mode for series expansions, where h->0. ==== Assumptions are a late addition on the CAS. They are used when the symbolic expressions are not converted into internal format. The quadratic solver was coded a long time ago in internal format for efficiency reason. If you solve parametric equations, the best is probably to switch to complex mode before calling the solver then switch back to real mode. ==== Agggrrrrr! ;-) Yes, but not the hidden directory of the calculator. It was rather the hidden directory of my RAM, where I found the silly idea to solve X^2+Y=2 with the calc. ;-) So creative that nobody seems to completely understand what their creations were? Well, I would be glad if at least the important fact, that my assumptions can be thrown over board when I use SOLVE. Well, if not there, then in the manuals. (What manuals?) Did you compress the description text for the flags, or did Rcobo add a mini drive to your HP? Fumed off! Greetings, ==== Are there any cases where solutions can be found in real mode, but not in complex mode? I mean, what if just leaving the calc in complex mode permanently? Should I fear that perhaps something else prevents the calc from finding a solution? Greetings, -0600) ==== Do you mean the Autoscale check-box in the HP48G Plot application? Or the AUTO command? Or the AUTO Window menu key in the HP49G? Or Zum Zum? Zum Beispiel: http://www.restaurantassociates.com/corp/compinfo.asp http://www.dinestlouis.com/z.html http://www.zum-zum.com [r->] [OFF] ==== i don't mean autoscale i don't think. i mean like autozoom , or zoomfit in the ti85. the pervious reply worked actually... but how about in a problem like POWERPLOT? does this have autoZOOM (zoomFit)? i know it has an autoscale function, but it doesn't autozoom (it seems to just scale the y axis i think). can i autozoom in powerplot? thanks ==== I can#t run this game on my hp 49. do i have to compress or do something with before it can run? THX n2 ==== There's absolutely nothing unusual about Babal 2.0 installation or usage. It's a library: install it. It has a few visible commands: run them. (BABAL, in particular.) ==== i'm an avid, longtime HP calc user (15c, 48gx, love em both), who's developed a sudden curiosity about the 41cx. i'm considering getting one -- mostly for fun and hacking around, but if i take a shine to it, it wouldn't surprise me if it gets some regular use. but i'm having a hard time get a feeling for how this calculator works, so i'd like to ask about some basic facts, especially about its use of modules. (i've done a fair amount of research on hpmuseum.org, hp41.org, and elsewhere on the internet, and these are the questions i haven't been able to find answers for. i apologize if they're no-brainers.) first, can modules be installed internally, or are they only installed in the four external slots on the top? hpmuseum.org has this to say about the differences between the 41c, 41cv, and 41cx: The HP-41CV was the same as the HP-41C except that it had four memory modules built in for a total of 319 registers. (With the four ports still available to add other modules.) The HP-41CX was the same as the HP-41CV but added the Time module (stopwatch plus clock with alarms), an Extended Functions / Extended Memory module, a text editor, and some additional functions. i'm guessing that this means the modules are part of the calculator's default functionality, leaving four open slots at the top, as most of the 41cxes i see for sale don't have most of these modules advertised. but i thought i would ask anyway. (and this is probably a stupid question ... if these functions are indeed installed internally, then does that mean plugging the same modules into the slots above would be redundant? i'm guessing that this is probably the case for Extended Features, but adding more Extended Memory modules would simply give it more memory ... however, i'd rather know for sure.) i'm sure i have lots of other questions, but that's all i can think of for now. thanks! cam ==== Four slots only BUT 41CV has on-board RAM extension available for the 41C as 4 plug-in RAM Modules 41CX is as 41 CV plus it has further 2 modules build-in: Extended Functions & Time Module that for the two previous models has to be plugged in The CX also had even some extra XF & Time functions You're right You can still buy two extended memory modules that don't add to the direct usable RAM, but rather as a Harddisk These need the XF module or 41CX which has the XF module build-in Redundant: Yes! You don't need the modules XF/Time for the CX nor do you need extra RAM for CV/CX. If you have the 41CX just buy two Expansion RAM Modules to use with the Extended Functions Module (build-in the CX Model) and you have a whjopping 6KB of RAM one great Module to add would be the Advantage Module. Besides that, for hacking purposes, the PPC would be a good buy. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ==== I'd suggest the W&W CCD module instead. It's no 'only' for hackers, but one of the best extensions of the 41 for many users. It simplifies many things. It adds many great system extensions, such as CAT 0-F, which includes IL cat and select, extended CAT 1, extended CAT 2, nice CAT 3-7, CAT 8-F are like CAT 2 for the plug-in modules. Direct execute from within any CAT (2,8-F). Also included: direct peek and poke, direct lower case alpha entry, direct synthetic entry, extended ASN, extended XEQ, fast matrix functions, user interface stuff like promting and output functions, many advanced programming aids, like hex view, and much more. BTW: The matrix functions in the advantage pac have their origin in the CCD module's matrix functions. So as always, it depends on your needs. I have all the modules (CCD, PPC, Advantage), and I much prefer the CCD module. Both the CCD and PPC ROM are somewhat difficult to get, but it's worth a try. Raymond ==== Raymond has it right: CCD > PPC but I never owned a CCD, only PPC so Rainman had to remember the details from the past decades of HP calculators... Nousiainen HP-6S, 10A, 25A, 40G, 41CX, 48SX, 48GX, 49G*2, 71B*2, 75C ==== I have an HP-41CX that I bought back in 1986, along with the card reader and Advantage module, and I still use it quite a bit, almost as much as my HP-49G. I've considered selling it, but I can't bring myself to part with it. If you're interested in synthetic programming (using opcodes that are not normally accessible from the keyboard), the card reader is nice to have. There is a byte-grabber program that allows you to program any valid opcode. If you store the byte-grabber program on a magnetic card, it's easy to reload if you create an errant program and have to reset the calculator. Even with calculators like the HP-48 and the HP-49G, the HP-41 is still a very useful and fun machine. Jeff ==== Good luck finding one! And if you do, tell me where ... -- Thierry Morissette 6fa61d46.0112061612.63f88a4a@posting.google.com... ==== The '41 is a fine machine - I still use mine (an original first-run 41C). All 41s have four expansion module slots. The CV has five times the memory (thus the name) and the CX has the other features you mentioned. Neither has extra modules built in though - the functions of those modules were designed into the circuitry of the calculator itself. For instance, the 41C had 5 memory chips in it. So does the CV - but they store much more each. *Any* HP-41 could hold up to 319 registers worth of memory (the CV and CX had that standard). So the CV and CX can't have more conventional memory added. There was an extended memory module that did add more (I think the CX includes its capability as well) but it was only accessable as sort of a solid state file system. Handy for storing programs or data in, but only useful for fetching 'em into regular memory and using there, if I recall correctly. I've got that module in mine (plus the Time and PPC modules and card reader) but haven't used it recently enough to remember all the details. If you approach the '41 as a 48 or 49 user, you'll be in for something of a shock. But if you are used to the HP-15, you'll find it quite familiar and even easier in many ways - the full alphanumeric display (HP's first, and first LCD too) really makes programming and function use easier. In overall flexibility, functionality, and expandability, the '41 series still stands as a testament to HP's terrific design and support skills. Jim Horn (Old PPC/CHHU/etc. enthusiast) -0600) ==== There's a good set in Donnelly's HP48 Handbook (2nd Edition) But it's sort of out of print (and pre-dates the HP49G). ISBN 1-879828-04-9 http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/books/handbook.html http://www.addall.com/Browse/Detail/1879828049.html [try this!] http://www.internationalcalculator.com/catalog1.html Claims to have Donnelly's Handbook (which Ed?), PocketBook, and Intro to SysRPL/ML, all at original prices! (and ramcards, AUR, owners manuals... ???) http://shopping.yahoo.com/shop?d=br&id=2065001683&cf=titles&alpha=H Happy hunting! Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft... and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor. - Wernher von Braun [r->] [OFF] -0600) ==== And you can't get Donnelly's handbook here, either: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1879828049 But try JimD's garage -- he's probably still got some :) [r->] [OFF] ==== I'm just beginner. so please excuse the question. why are there no values of 1>y>-1 the conic plot. i just tried a simpel circle and it won't work tHx for help n2 ==== real aurgument from the stack. The program works fine I then tried steping through it using the debuger, no luck. This is what I did first I put the aurgument on the stack then I typed 'prog' and pressed softkey debug ( accessed by PRG and RUN then DEBUG; left shift Cat next twice RUN Debug ) The program gives me an error: Too few Arguments, I am already in sys RPL stack mode. The arguments are on the stack? I also noticed in the display on level one is the program name quoted and data on level 2. Any hints how to make it work? ==== The debugger available in the RUN menu is for debugging userrpl programs, not sysrpl. Use SDB from Jazz49 instead. -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== You need to have the recalled program on the stack, not its name. ==== You can use it for SysRPL programs, you just need to be careful in a few cases - for example you don't want to step over ITE ;-) For such difficult situations, I always insert a couple of xHALTs, and then it works fine. ==== Does it work with 1.19-6? To the best of my knowledge 6.8e will work only with -5... and also storing a 70 kB lib in your port0 may be concisely described as shooting in your foot with a sniper rifle, isn't it? Greetings, Marco ==== try to debug SysRPL program but any entry point that will modify the return stack will make the debugger crash (like the dispatchee command, IFTE, IT, ?SKIP , 'R , etc...). case is to put several HALT command in your code and playing with CONT and SST, you may get to the result... But I guess Jazz or Debug2 will do a much better job. Debug2 in this area is I believe the best solution, you can see absolutely everything: the memory structure, the local variables, the virtual stack, the return stack etc.... I can't work without it anymore ==== Keep in mind *when* it was written: at that time, all the extension messages *were* handled the same way, with the exception of #8h. Don't call it 'pooly written' for ACO's choice to change message handling radically with this version. When I have time aside from other projects of mine, I'll see about fixing it. ---------- http://www.thuban.org ==== nice to see you back here. A lot has been modified and Apart from its buggy $EXTR, several other commands in L1792 need revision, IMHO. The library APPSman got romid 1792 just for one reason: Giving it control on the $EXTPRGs off all other libs since these may cause problems similar to L1792. 1792 is the highest romid for external libs with visibles as you know. This enables LIBman's $EXTPRG to control the other $EXTPRG to some extend. For instance, by simply ignoring them. - Wolfgang <5b519d41.0111100205.2ba62347@posting.google.com> ==== KF> Keep in mind *when* it was written: at that time, all the extension KF> messages *were* handled the same way, with the exception of #8h. I agree, 1791 really was the first lib to explore the new possibilities provided by the library message handler, so it was pioneering work and provided useful functionality. KF> Don't call it 'pooly written' for ACO's choice to change message KF> handling radically with this version. Well, this is not correct. ACO never said there was a standard usage way for the messages. They did not change anything in the format of the older messages. A warning was that message 8 worked differently. Also, there is the lib id message used with the LIBS menu (but I don't know when this particular message was introduced), which works in an entirely different way. So I do think it was over-optimistic that all messages until #FFh would work in the same way. That said, I do think it would be nice to have a new version of 1791 (different number, maybe) with an optimized and faster EXTPRG. The basic functionality, to use variables to extend all kinds of menu, is very useful. I had made quite some use of it and removed 1791 only reluctantly after it started crashing my calculator. Even considered to write a new version myself. - Carsten ==== X Well, you can just do that, Carsten, please. PS: Do you have a middle name (or initial) so that I could shorten you name to something else than CD ??! :) ==== Possibly, and I've decided change the dispatch logic to be much more restrictive. Either a CASE structure, or an If-Found-In-This-List setup. In any case, 'poorly written' is an unfair assessment. How long has it lasted without a problem, and why did the problem arise? The writing of it was fine -- my lack of foresight on ACO's decision to waffle between two incompatible calling methods is a separate matter. I *am* glad, however, for the new messages. I'd suggested something similar to their HELP messages to CdB, back when ACO was very busy with everything else. Now, perhaps those with the power can let us know -- are there going to be new roms, or at what point can we consider the extprg messages frozen? With 200+ free messages, we can have lots of nice room to play with. I'm not sure how optimized I could make it. It really was a quick-and-dirty hack that proved useful. If someone out there were to offer ideas on better routines, the source is only for the asking. And I'm quite flattered. Makes the many crashes I had developing it Keith ==== I'm sorry if I've offended you in anyway. I tried to get in touch with you Poorly written may have been a too strong word. ==== I have uploaded Emacs 1.08. Until it shows up on Eric's site, you can also get it from http://zon.astro.uva.nl/~dominik/hpcalc/emacs/emacs108.zip Changes ======= - New command mode with single-key access to some 50 editing commands, the same commands which are also in the macro language. See the new command 'CmdMd'. AsnEmacs binds it to RightShift & | and ALPHA RightShift & |. - Macro language enriched: filling and centering text, transposition words and lines, case changes, style changes. Some macro control character changes are unfortunately ******************************** *** NOT BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE *** ******************************** Sorry about that, this was necessary to make the CmdMd command work well, which uses the same command table to save memory and to help you stay sane. If you have already programmed macros, check out the following control characters and correct your macros: w W z Z c C k K a e - RPLED is BZ aware. If the corresponding option in the Emacs configuration screen is turned on, RPLED will transparently edit BZ strings and self-expanding programs (like the ones produced with OT49), but not selfexpanding code objects. For recompression after editing, OT49 has to be installed. - Exiting RPLED with a longer press of the ENTER key will give you a choice if you want to compile the source directly. - OBSEL now really selects the object at point, not the word. - In order to make space for 'CmdMd' in the Menu, the HALT command moved to LS CmdMd, and the STK-> command was removed (use the HIST key and the interactive stack to echo from the stack). - The serious TTRM bug with folding when not on a delimiter is fixed. - Several internal optimizations, in particular speedup of indentation. - A few hundred more stack diagrams are in SDIAG. In particular, the ML section contains nibble-by-nibble descriptions of the different object structures. The descriptions are in SDIAG under DOCHAR, DOCODE, etc., hopefully useful for ML programmers. Carsten and Pivo. ==== /me suggests a standing ovation Ovations, Marco ==== -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== On 06 Dec 2001 09:39:34 +0100, Carsten Dominik The paragraphing function of this has already been quite useful to me. I like the speed and power it gives -- and if you extend it a little more, you'll have something akin to VI, if you don't already have it. =) At first the window annoyed me, but then I accidently longpressed an 'appointment' entry to Organizer. I suspect now that a better solution would be compiling on doubleclick, but I'm going to stick with the current configuration for a while. This is very useful, still. (But something occured to me... Why have a Yes/No selection? Why not say I'm going to compile this now, haha! with just an OK selection, and you can hit cancel if it bothers you?) ==== http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/programming/misc/vpneqw.zip ==== Why are you beeping? :-) Bhuvanesh. ==== Nick the Greek has been partly assimilated to the BORG system Because Greeks are incompatible with almost everything (including Greeks :) the assimilation never took place successfully so poor Nick is now neither human nor BORG (but he can now program the HP 49G in ALG-mode) Am I correct Nick? ==== I have an upcoming exam in infinite rows etc. and I need to calculate some limits! But suddenly Erable says Error 16 when I try LIMIT or SERIES. I can see in documentation that somehow Erable has switched to numeric mode, but how can I get it back to symbolic mode? Please Help Fast! :-) ==== mensagem:msssvto7fadskp631g0e18rsuqksjt1icg@4ax.com... : : : I saw those gigantic prices too on the mentioned wesite. : TU Boekhandel Prins in Delft sells the 49G for 499 guilders, $ 200. : They mentioned that there are 2 distributors for HP calcs in The : Netherlands. However I don't know who they are. : : Arnold : : On 23 Nov 2001 12:00:44 +0100, Carsten Dominik : : > : >A few days ago I went through the shops at Amsterdam Airport and to my : >surprise they had an HP49G. However, the price was horrendus: 725 : >Dutch guilders, which is about 290 USD. I thought this must be a : >mistake, they have confused EURO with guilders or something. So I : >looked on the web, and found more of the same, e.g. : > : > http://www.distec.be/hpcalc/indexnl.asp  ==== You're totally to the point! I stopped maths for six years, and i have to start back because i am now in a business school. Since I bought this calculator, i'am learning maths everyday, because you want to understand what's wrong with the calculator, or what you don't understand... This gives u the will power! Greetings vince ==== Albert Graef escreveu nas not222cias de mensagem:3BF432F1.1070700@t-online.de... : : > Wow! 1089 years! Wow! : > : > HP999999999999998GX: 1 TB Ram, 3000000 functions, 20000 graph types, : > 1000 ports, 300 programing languages. :) : : : And no manual. 1 500 FOR J LOL! NEXT ;-) : Sorry, couldn't resist. ;-) (at least my)PC Programable Calculator: 233 MHz Processor; 2 GB Memory; 512 Ports; 30000 Functions; 2 Operating Systems. RPN, console and Algebraic. Text Editing, Draw, etc... QWERTY reprogrammable keyboard. : -- : Dr. Albert Graf : WWW: http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag : -0600) ==== It was written: But practically, if you want your LCD to still work, you'd better not, because some otherwise unused slot 1 card pins were borrowed for connections to the LCD overhead projector accessory (something rumored to exist, but not seen even at the HP museum :) 256K thru 512K cards inserted into slot 1 will not short out any LCD lines, and may sometimes be stable as to which bank you'll see, which is usually *not* the first port you would see were the card plugged into slot 2, but here's a quote from HP48GX project engineer Dave Arnett (not speaking for HP, of course :) ----- Begin quote ----- [excerpts only] If my HP48 is still doing exponents correctly, a 512k device needs address lines 0 through 18. So the bank of the card selected when talking to a 512k card in GX slot 1 depends on where the card controller CE2 in Yorke [CPU] is actually configured in the 512k (1 M Nybble) Saturn bus address space. If the configuration changes, as it does at certain times, then really wierd things can (and apparently do) happen. 256k and 512k cards use address lines which may not be handled correctly during certain processes. What they do depends on what you do, and what your favorite game writer did. The HP48 ocasionally verifies that the contents of the slots are as the Operating Sytem thinks they should be. If the card is doing psychotic bank switches, the OS may well reboot. If anybody is putting a 512k [or 256K?] RAM card in slot 1 and trying to MERGE it, please don't tell me. ----- End quote ----- Here's more from Dave: Cards larger than 128k will not work correctly in card slot 1 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=DLE03L.4Eq%40hpcvra.cv.hp.com That 1996 post of Dave's also tells us a few more interesting facts, relevant to other recent questions, e.g.: A very few card vendors, HP included (Equation Library), tried to be tricky in the way they protected their copyrights: The utilities go looking for the data card without going through the RPL Operating System. If they can't find the data card out in the card space, they assume you are a pirate and stop working. Cards which used this feature, or similar features, will not work in GX card slot 2. Incidentally, since we at HP were guilty of hyper-security, we included almost everything from the [48S] EQ Lib card in the G/GX outright. The periodic table was not included because of its size, but it was rewritten as a stand alone, down-loadable library and is probably available at an FTP site near you. We were unable to reach an acceptable royalty agreement on the Tetris game included in later EQ Lib cards, so that is not available from HP. Caveat emptor :) (1) 32K/128K ONLY [quoting from the back of the HP48GX itself] [r->] [OFF] ==== the battery pack be good for the calculator to work? I Yes, exactly....thanks, I'll go ahead and try rebuilding the battery pack and see what happens..... I guess I'm sort of a throwback, but I STILL like the 67's and 97's, too!! Metcalf Arlington, Texas disclaimer: The University of Texas does not necessarily reflect my views about anything ==== the *ONLY* the old HP calculators with a three-pin connector (35,45,55,65,70,80,...) can be safely used without a battery pack in place. ==== I rebuilt an HP 41 battery pack with success. I have also rebuilt a number of rechargable packs over the years. Just a few gotchas. Do not solder directly to the batteries - this may destroy them. My supplier welded the pack together using straps in the same configuration as the origonal. It cost about 20c per weld and 30c per tab. Most battery specialists have this facility. You can also get batteries with solder tabs afixed if you cannot find a supplier to do the welding for you - but it can become quite messy but I have used this technique on several occasions. Use NiMH batteries. They have similar characteristics as the NiCd but with less memory effect. They are also typically higher capacity and the extra cost is certainly worth it. I only buy NiMH now. With some careful and patient work there is no reason why you cannot rebuild the pack. ==== No they can't. The HP65 and 67 will operate without using the cardreader. But when you want to read/write cards it's better to have a batterypack in place, because the readermotor might burn. The batterypack will regulate the current. ==== course, you're right--it's a HP48GX)... Interestingly enough, I do have a HP Calculator Overhead Display unit...I guess that can't be used concurrently with the MK in a 48GX... Appreciate the info very much.... ==== ==== I have rebuilt some of the AA size battery packs....our local electronics salvage store (as do many places, I'm sure) has lots of 3-AA cell rechargeable battery packs for cordless phones with the cells already spot welded together that are just perfect for us...I just got some thin brass sheet stock from a hobby store and made some new terminals and soldered them on the pack and went on my merry way....I haven't tried the C cell size packs, though, and that is a different matter..... Arlington, TX disclaimer: The University of Texas does not necessarily reflect my views about anything ==== expansible. 49G has built in CAS and good features, don't need The last two banks of the 4MB are rather difficult to access but who cares! You still have 3,75MB of easily accessible port memory Though the HP 49G style of giving one huge port that is internally made of 128KB ports is even easier (the flash is made of 64KB blocks) The 48 series have better keys, but I still trade the keys for a 1MB Flash ROM (upgradeable OS) and one MB Flash RAM, not to forget about build.in 256KB User RAM and 256KB expansion RAM Most of us would take a 49G with a decent keyboard any day! Just my 0.04_Euro (inflation gets worse) ==== Ok, thanks, Eric. Now how do you enter in Algebraic mode the sample program shown below (from hpcalc.org). I tried entering the program as written in both Algebraic AND RPL mode with no success. That was the reason I was asking for some reference to this BASIC which I am more convinced now that it does not exist. Do you just type the program in Algebraic mode and press [ENTER]? How do you save it? How do you give it a name? HELP!!!! ËProblemas con las news? Webnews, el acceso m207s r207pido y fiable http://webnews.aforo.com User IP: 207.212.230.68 ==== This is totally different from the 38/39/40 series code AND not compatible with them BUT this is 49 RPL compatible as it can be run in the RPN mode AND the RPN programs can be run in the algebraic mode Your sample is clearly an ALG-Mode program AND it should be keyed in in the Algebraic mode as well. 1) Key the program in 2) Press [STO|>] key and give it a name in the alpha mode (press [ALPHA] twice to lock ; key in the name; press [ENTER]) 3) Press the key with the name you just gave to the program, at this time [F1] (the first 5 characters show above the F1 key as a soft menu key label) 4) Watch it run (afterwards - optionally - clear the stupid answer) 5) Try to modify you program - remember using semicolon ; between ; the ; statements ; Have fun ==== Hola, el programa que pusiste como ejemplo debe ser tipeado entre los famosos delimitadores de pragrama (cada objeto de la Hp49 tiene sus propios delimitadores), el programa quedar222a: << FOR(i,1,100) DISP(i,1); ==== der d212mon ha scritto nel than know I never owned a TI calc: so I can't directly compare them (anyway if the TI release an emulator let me now, I'll try it..). My suggestion is to download the emulator and try to use it around, playing eventually with libs (which can really expand the calc functionalities): again I admit my ignorance: I don't know much about the TI programs. Kickaha ==== No, actually, I don't have an HP49G. I use the emulator. My opinion would be that it depends on what you want to use it for. If you are into computer algebra, you might want to have both (I would gladly accept an HP49G if HP gave me one :-) TI just gave me a TI-89...) The TI-89 also has an EQW and an RPN interface, but it is likely that you already know this. Bhuvanesh. ==== The only Default or Reserved (numeric) Matrix that I know is SigmaDAT or /GSDAT or EDAT ()(/%ó# Greek letters without global switch to unicode NOW) You can store your 'Tony' Matirx in 'EDAT' BUT just starting Matrix Writer Doesn't work THUS if you use STAT menu (above [ 5 ]) you may edit the SigmaDAT or the Matrix it is referring to I hope this helped! values Equation when i whose ==== Yup. The one solution you get if you evaluate 'TAN(ACOS(3/4)/4)' numerically corresponds to TAN(X)=2*SQRT(2)-SQRT(7), but I thought it looked prettier if it was written: tan(x) = sqrt(8) - sqrt(7). (That way it's obvious that it's a positive number smaller than one.) Scott -- Scott Hemphill hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu This isn't flying. This is falling, with style. -- Buzz Lightyear ==== Yes.... It would be extremely useful... <9ul8rm$i8h$1@namru.matavnet.hu> ==== No marathon races please! The ungrateful greeks would kill you in the end. ;-) Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them. ==== Oh, we are grateful, we only have strange ways to show our gratefulness, like teaching people trigonometry and similar things. ;-) Gr237etzli, ==== They are not implemented on the HP49, only in the MK 2.23 for the HP48. I didn't provide any information about these calls as their use is extremely limited for a programmer (I don't even use them myself). They return the list of either the current object or the selected object in the form of a string of addresses. It's something like: 5 nibbles for the switching routine and 5 nibbles for the address of the object. I do not recommend to use them as they can change while playing with the filer. ==== For now, IÇll post that on my site, http://move.to/hpkb , in a few days. -- Eduardo M Kalinowski http://move.to/hpkb ==== -- Eduardo M Kalinowski http://move.to/hpkb ==== days. just gave my printout to the printer to get it bound. ;-) -- Dr. Albert Graef, Dept. of Music-Informatics Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de/~ag ==== The HP49G is *too good*... It has the capability to exactly find integrals, but not approximate them. My Calc I-II class has not yet gotten to doing REAL integrals (exact, that is). Rather, we are now approximating with Riemann Sums. I was shocked to find on HPCalc the lack of 49-specific Riemann sum programs. I found one (for finding Riemann sums from an equation) for the 48 that works on the 49 if you transfer in ASCII mode... LRSum 2.0 (found at http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/math/statistic/lrsum2.zip) Also, I created my OWN program for finding Riemann approximations from a table (My calculus book/teacher gives us these problems, which are easy but tedious; I don't know if most teachers do or not). I called it SumMa, and is as follows: (I know it is AWFUL programming in terms of efficiency, etc., but it gets the job done, and I am willing to wait a few seconds... :-) feel free to fix it if you wish) My program reports the value of the error formula, while LRSum does not. (I suppose I could change it to do so ((for my calc only)) ) ;-) Keep in mind, though, that they are used for different inputs. %%HP: T(1)A(R)F(.); .82 2 ROW- OBJ-> EVAL ôLIST Y STO OBJ-> EVAL SWAP DROP ->LIST X STO X EVAL DEPTH 1 - 'N' STO N 1 + ROLL 'A' STO 'B' STO B A - N / 'DT' STO CLEAR Y EVAL DEPTH ROLL 'FA' STO N ->LIST (SIGMA)LIST DT * RHS ->TAG DUP 'RHS' STO Y EVAL 'FB' STO N ->LIST (SIGMA)LIST DT * LHS ->TAG DUP 'LHS' STO RHS LHS + 2 / ôNUM AVG ->TAG FB FA - ABS B A - ABS * N / ERR ->TAG { N B A FA FB RHS LHS DT X Y } PURGE é -Jerrod H. ==== Geez, Wolfgang, make a guy feel all warm and cuddly inside! I just reviewed what my lib does (haven't touched the calc in ages), and I don't see any other lib intercepting the messages for anything of the other menus. I wouldn't call my lib obsolete -- merely in need of updating. And the name is spelled Keith. I'll see about fixing the problem with the library numbers. I really wish ACO would have picked a format and stuck to it. ---------- Keith J. Farmer kfarmer@thuban.org http://www.thuban.org newssvr17.news.prodigy.com!Richter0.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy. c om!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!pln-e!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews. c om!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!easynet-monga!easynet.n e t!news1.ebone.net!news.ebone.net!newsrouter.euroconnect.net!newsfeed.song.fi ! ==== I will surely use the renumbering feature. Care to check the format of the numbering in both RPN/ALG mode in STD/FIX/ENG/SCI it seems that Integer might be the best format for adding to the display (. should be included) Hmmm. Maybe just a check what the system does for the decimal point in FM, mode should be done, too. What else to do is up to you I'm only concerned about a perfect numbering of the entries.other ==== I know about legal problems for the development of new ROM's version for the 49G What about Erable 3.3 for the 48GX? ==== Yes, please! A backport of the most important changes in MK+Erable would be *very* useful for the 48GX users. That might be lots of work though, and also raise some licensing issues? -- ==== is there any way to use an modem in a HP49? and to access internet? would be and chat on IRC. -- mIRC on #Win9x na Brasnet e #Novocanal da Dalnet, al216m de irc.via-rs.com.br no canal #chatcity. AIm: Renan Birck ComVC:1127268 ==== About connecting the 49 to a modem: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/hp2modem.zip TCP/IP software: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/utils/comms/usingagaz.zip I don't know if there is any chat-software that uses TCP/IP. Greetings, ==== http://www.hp-sources.com/navigator/english.html ==== He (Yoann) told me he will write an IRC client when he has somewhat finished navigator. He's reading the IRC related RFCs at the moment... Samuel Thibault youpi_486@yahoo.com ==== I have some little problems to fine these identities. Can somebody help me? It's not homeworks, but it's a kind of training for my next week exam! Some of them are really though! vince0905@yahoo.fr ==== Well, here you need a little trick. Enter (XRoot2(1+Sin(x)))/(XRoot2(1-Sin(x))) press down error to take this to the EQW, then in the EQW press down arrow again to mark the numerator of the ratio. Copy the numerator. Press * and paste the numerator. Press right arrow twice to go to the demoninator. Press * and paste again. Now press arrow up and arrow left to go to the numerator again. Expanf the numerator. Press arrow right to go to the denominator and expand it. Now press red-shift and 8 to go to the trig menu and press NXT twice. Press F2 (for TRIGCOS) . Done :-) Gonna try the next ones also. When ready I'll let you know. Greetings, ==== I don't understand. How does doing these on a calculator help you for an exam? Or are you asking how to do them manually? Anyway, the first one is easy. Note that both sides are nonnegative, so squaring both sides doesn't introduce any extraneous solutions. Then it's pretty simple. The others are not just tough, they are impossible. (They aren't identities.) Scott -- Scott Hemphill hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu This isn't flying. This is falling, with style. -- Buzz Lightyear ==== Yesterday my calculador was unusable. When I try to start it appear the typical message: TRY TO RECOVERY MEMORY?, but whe I press any key the calculator doesnÇt make any thing (even whe I pressed the A key or F key, ON+C, ON+A+F). I tried also, to reset it getting into the back hole a clip. But it didnÇt worked at all. NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING (Please believe to me NOTHING has worked) and IÇm so worried. I think that it occurred, because I was testing some SYSEVALS, but I donÇt remember which one was the number. If you can to help me, I thank you in advance. PD: Yesterday my calculador was unusable. When I try to start it appear the typical message: TRY TO RECOVERY MEMORY?, but whe I press any key the calculator doesnÇt make any thing (even whe I pressed the A key or F key, ON+C, ON+A+F). I tried also, to reset it getting into the back hole a clip. But it didnÇt worked at all. NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING (Please believe to me NOTHING has worked) and IÇm so worried. I think that it occurred, because I was testing some SYSEVALS, but I donÇt remember which one was the number. If you can to help me, I thank you in advance. PD: I want to apologize for my English. ItÇs not my native language. ==== Take the batteries out for a day or two... ==== What kind of answer is that ? Press ON-A-F, the message Try To Recover Memory should appear, Answer NO (by pressing F6) . If your HP49 still can't boot, reset your calculator by using a paperclip in the hole in the back of the calculator and holding the backspace key ==== (by in BECAUSE he already tried those... _________________________________________ The original quota: ----- Original Message ----- ==== He didn't try holding the backspace key ... ==== Well, just wanted to say that this happen to me last week and I tried every single key combination to try to boot my calc. ON-A-F worked every now and then but either answer (yes or no) didn't work. The paper clip, forget it. The only menu I could access was NO MENU SYSTEM. Then I found a little program in hpcalc that erase the Port0 and didn't worked. So I guessed that my calc was gone forever then I took the batteries off went to dinner and put the batteries back on and WWWWWEEEEEEEE!!! my calc was ready to rock again!! batteries off! Eduardo ==== x^2 + y^2 = 25 y = (25 - x^2)^(1/2) dy/dx = -x(25-x^2)^(-1/2) d/dx(dy/dx) = -(25-x^2)^(-1/2) - (x^2)*(25-x^2)^(-3/2) at (4,3) -(25 - 16) ^ (-1/2) - 16*(25-16)^ (-3/2) - (9) ^(-1/2) - 16 * 9 ^ (-3/2) -1/3 - 16/ ( 3)^3 -1/3 - 16/27 - (25/27) < snip > ==== Last time I miss a meeting! What sort of support can we hope for in the updating of the HP49 rom beyond 1.19-6? Will JYA, BP, et al be wrapping up existing bugs even if they're not employed by HP (I assume not)? ---------- Keith J. Farmer kfarmer@thuban.org http://www.thuban.org ==== newsgroup (I haven't seen you post for a long while--by the way, how have you been?--so I really can't tell if I'm giving you information you already know or not. It seems that members of ACO will not be able to release ROMs because they are not employed by HP. However, there are some rays of hope. There was talk by JYA about GPLing the source of the 49G, but I guess that's still up in the air (if it's not released at Christmas time as a final present from ACO, I doubt we'll see it open source). The bigger hope comes on the CAS side from BP, and I quote from an earlier post in the Well It's Over Then, Goodbye post: Just to tell that the ACO status has no impact on the CAS development, and that the 49 CAS is not dead even if I do only make bug fixes currently. Just be patient ... Since BP wasn't technically ever an HP employee, I guess he can do this, so CAS bugs should be fixed as stated in the quote. Now IIRC, I also read somewhere in some thread (sorry, I guess that's pretty vague :-) JYA saying he can fix the bugs, but he technically can't release a ROM for us. I wonder if he can give it to BP and he can release the ROM (again, this is probably just senseless babble, but I have to wonder if there is a loophole that can help the 49G community out in this ROM-releasing respect). In short, I guess for a while we won't be seeing anything new. But if BP ever gets a chance to develop some more stuff for the CAS, then we should see something, someday. Whether it's worth the wait for you (it is for me; I'm a student, and a calculator enthusiast--I don't use this for anything more than exploration into math and programming) I cannot tell, but I think the 49G is not dead yet. I hope I've given you at least some new news. Rahul Hor216 P.S. As the caretaker of the 49G wishlist, I had been contacting people about programs that they had developed (or were thinking about developing) before this unfortunate ACO incident in hopes of seeing some more good improvements from the user base. I have always wanted to ask you this: one of the items on the wishlist is implementation of symbolic tensor algebra (something that you suggested once--not to me, but I read it in previous posts and thought it was definitely worth putting on the list). If I remember correctly, long ago (perhaps in the late 90's--okay, so it's not that long ago :-) you were thinking about implementing a tensor analysis library (or you had one for the 48 or...?). Are you still interested in the project? If not, would you like sharing your knowledge on the subject so if someone was interested, they could try their hand at it? I'd love to try, but despite being a pretty good undergrad math major, this is definitely not my strong suit. Besides, LongFloat49 is number one on my wishlist and I thought it would be fun (and educational, of course :-) to implement a version for myself as a long-term project--nothing really optimized, but at least something. Anyway, several people would love to see a tensor analysis package for the 49G, so if you ever get really bored, I'm sure people would appreciate anything to further the subject. Sorry for the long digression...nice to see you're still around! ==== I've not been on the usenet for a while. Between employment, and the current lack thereof, I've been spending most of my time either on my motorcycle, or dealing with other projects (http://www.thuban.org/projects and http://www.thuban.org/astro -- though the astro one has a tendancy to restart my zope server.. I'll have to figure that one out sometime, since it doesn't crash the python interpreter). Bug fixes are more important than new functionality at this point. With the foundation provided, we can make what we will. Personally, *I* would like hooks to the pretty-print system. Well, I haven't had any real training in tensor algebra, *but* I recently received about 18 boxen of books shipped to my apartment from storage, one of which contained my vector analysis textbook which does have the relevant formulae. Refresh my memory -- HP49 matrices don't support more than 2 dimensions, correct? There were 3 libraries I had written for the 48 which were rediculously useful to my physics degree: a quantum physics library which calculated LS coupling states, among other things (the source was lost, but may still exist on a linux box in storage about 1000 miles away); a symbolic algebra library, which supported general orthogonal coordinate systems -- much of this could be easily ported over, and supported much more readily on the 49; and a linear regression package that included error propagation (*that* was a bear to think through .. I don't know if it still exists). Some of these might still exist on hpcalc.org, if you're up to hunting. Keith ==== The quantum physics program (from the 48, but written in UserRPL IIRC) is at http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=2249 ==== http://pweb.jps.net/~joehorn http://my-vcard.com/joehorn ==== At least on the HP-48, many internal programs which use the POL utilities do local bindings *after* POLSaveUI. Some even make more than one binding after POLSaveUI, e.g. one with named LAM's, then one with NULLLAM's. It may work if the LAM's are named. So if you don't want to mess around with counting LAM bindings in your program, it may be easier to do so;-) IMHO, it's generally easier (and more flexible) to use the POL utilities instead of ParOuterLoop, if you want to use additional local bindings and/or other special actions. Raymond <9ukquv$1rk$1@news.tuwien.ac.at> <9ukt37$sp$05$1@news.t-online.com> -0600) ==== Maestro Mika Heiskanen's definitive answer: Nested NULLLAMS and other ?'s (May 1996): http://groups.google.com/groups?ic=1&selm=m4mn3387ray.fsf%40lk-hp-24.hut.fi ==== This is a good post (the answer to my question). I use the technique Werner suggested in the above reply in all my programs now. This is a good way because it avoids any problems with LASTARG, doesn't require a leading tick ('), and it's one of the fastest ROM addresses to reference (I think Mika said that FALSE is actually faster, but I'm not sure). As an example, if you decompile the PLOT command in PowerPlot, you will see this (among other things): ... TRUE FIFTEEN NDUPN DOBIND ==== This is the first part of a (hopefully long) news-group-marathon-serial about the trigonometry capabilities of the HP49G and about the mysterious ideas that some strange guys had, before a long long time in the land, which I come from. I mean Pythagoras and co. Ië ll start with the easier things and as the triventure goes on, things will get more complicated. So if many of you out there find this not so useful now, because it is easy, then wait! Heavier things are on the way! Mwaahhahahahaaa! You already know that a very important relation between the sine and the cosine is: 2 2 SIN(X) + COS(X) = 1 (1) The HP49G command for this relation is TRIG. When it finds the sum of the squares of the sine and the cosine, it converts it always to 1. much of it in the result, as possible. So it would do the replacement (3). When the flag is clear, then the CAS prefers the cosine and tries to put as much of it as possible in the results. So it would do replacement (2). A mnemonic for this behavior: Flag -116 Set ->Sin (Two Ss) Clear->Cos (Two Cs) There are two commands, that are related to TRIG. They are: TRIGSIN and TRIGCOS. TRIGSIN always does replacement (3) and *sets* flag -116. TRIGCOS does replacement (2) and *clears* flag -116. So after a TRIGSIN the command TRIG will prefer sines and after a TRIGCOS the command TRIG will prefer Cosines. Now, you also know that the definition of tangent is: SIN(X) TAN(X) = ------- (4) COS(X) The command for transforming tangents to the quotient of sine and cosine is TAN2SC (TAN to Sine , Cosine ). When you use it, transformation (4) takes place. The inverse tranformation can be achieved with the command TRIGTAN, which would return the TAN(X) if feeded with SIN(X)/COS(X) . 2 2 1-COS(X) TAN(X) = ---------- => 2 COS(X) 2 1 TAN(X) = --------- - 1 => 2 COS(X) 2 1 TAN(X) + 1 = ------- => 2 COS(X) 2 1 COS(X) = ------------- (5) 2 1 + TAN(X) we can also derive: 2 2 TAN(X) SIN(X) = ------------- (6) 2 1 + TAN(X) Replace COS(X)^2 with relation (3) and youëll see. The wonderful thing is that TRIGTAN can do also transformation (6). Now enough theory, letës have a party! Examples: 1) Show that: 4 4 2 2 SIN(X) - COS(X) = SIN(X) - COS(X) Type in enter the left hand side of the equation and enter it in stack level 1. Letës try TRIGTAN. The result: 2 TAN(X) - 1 ---------- 2 TAN(X) + 1 looks nice, so letës work with it. We have TAN and we want SIN and COS, so letës use TAN2SC . We get: 2 / |SIN(X)| |------| - 1 |COS(X)| / --------------- 2 / |SIN(X)| |------| + 1 |COS(X)| / which looks uglier, but if you EXPAND this you get: 2 2 SIN(X) - COS(X) ---------------- 2 2 SIN(X) + COS(X) Now you may tend to use TRIG, to replace the denominator with 1, but this would also replace either the quadrat of the sine or the quadrate of the cosine on the numerator. So take this expression in the EQW, select the denominator and then press TRIG, so that the command acts only upon the denominator. Put this now back on the stack. Press EXPAND to get rid of the 1 in the denominator and you are the trigo-king of the day. 2) Show that: 4 4 2 2 SIN(X) - COS(X) = 2*COS(X) - 1 = 1 - 2*SIN(X) Enter again the left hand side of the equation and put it on stack level 1. We want first to transform this expression to another, which contains only COS, so letës try TRIGCOS. Here you are! Now, press TRIGSIN. Ready. 3) Show that: 2 / | SIN(X) - COS(X) | = 1 - 2*SIN(X)*COS(X) / Enter the left hand side of the equation on stack level 1 and DUP it. Youëll see later why. Letës EXPAND this, to see what comes out. You get: 2 2 SIN(X) - 2*SIN(X)*COS(X) + COS(X) This contains the quadrat of the sine plus the quadrat of the cosine, so use TRIG to get them converted to 1. Voila! But wait! Is the EXPAND really necessary? DROP stack level 1 and try TRIG directly. Wow! It works :-) 4) Show that: 2 2 / / | SIN(X) + COS(X) | + | SIN(X) - COS(X) | = 2 / / Yes, you know what I am going to say. Enter the left hand side, blah, blah. Alright? Good. Now because in example 3 we saw that TRIG is clever, letës use it again. Press TRIG. Did you? What do you have? A nice round 2. :-) 5) Show that: 2 2 2 2 2 2 SIN(X) * COS(Y) - COS(X) * SIN(Y) = SIN(X) - SIN(Y) We want a result that only contains SIN, so letës try TRIGSIN. Nice, isnët it? Oh yes, it is. ;-) 6) Show that: 2 2 2 2 2 2 COS(X) * COS(Y) - SIN(X) * SIN(Y) = COS(X) + COS(Y) - 1 Since we saw that TRIGSIN worked so gut in the last example, and we want a result that only has COS, letës try the cousine of TRIGSIN, TRIGCOS, that tries to put as much cosine as possible in the result. (I guess thatës why it is the co(u)sine of TRIGSIN. ;-) ) OK, press TRIGCOS, and see the marvel. :-) 7) Show that: 2 COS(X) 1 2 ------- = ------- - COS(X) 2 2 TAN(X) TAN(X) This is a bit tougher, but donët worry. Weëll get it soft! Go to the EQW and enter the left hand side. Donët enter it to the stack, weëll stay in the EQW for a while, since the surroundings are so picturesque there. Since we want an inverse TAN(X)^2 in the result, we could try to put SIN in the denominator of our expression so that perhaps the cosine in the numerator and the sine in the denominator give an inverse TAN(X)^2. You know, since TAN(X)=SIN(X)/COS(X) , it is 1/TAN(X) = COS(X)/SIN(X) . Select the denominator and apply TRIGSIN to it. Now ENTER this to the stack and EXPAND it. You get a ratio with a big numerator and a denominator that only has SIN(X)^2. The first expression in the numerator is COS(X)^2*SIN(X)^2 , so this part would give the inverse TAN(X)^2 . Use the command FDISTRIB to fully distribute the divison over the sum of the numerator. Fine. Now perhaps you think that you only have to use TRIGTAN, to turn COS(X)^2/SIN(X)^2 to 1/TAN(X)^2 . But if you apply it to the whole expression, then also the -COS(X)^2 will be converted to an expression tha contains TAN(X) . So take the expression in the EQW again, and shoot some pictures of that beautiful place, while you select COS(X)^2/SIN(X)^2 and press TRIGTAN. Press enter to return to the dusty place of the stack again and here you are! A present from the EQW smiles at you in the middle of the dirty suburban stack. :-) 114) Show that: / 1 1 TAN(X) + TAN(Y) = TAN(X)*TAN(Y)*|------- + -------- | TAN(X) TAN(Y) / This is even tougher. (To me at least.) I only managed to tame it using the peaceful contemplative EQW and CUT, COPY, PASTE. If someone finds an easier way, then please, please, post it. Then Iëll take your solution to my cousine Pythagoras and tell him that he was wrong, telling me that the only way to do that, is to use the EQW and some manually done transformations. And who knows, perhaps after some thousends of years, people will talk about the great mathematician and great HP49Gician Vincentoras or Time2Pawgoras. Letës go. Enter the left hand side on the stack. Donët ask me why I did that, say just for a try, but using TAN2SC is a good start. So use it, now! Did that? OK. Now EXPAND this to get everything in only one ratio. The denominator of the beast has COS(Y)*COS(X), which is good if we want to get TAN(X)*TAN(Y). So, perhaps something good happens, if we multiply the numerator by SIN(X)*SIN(Y). But if we do that, then we must also multiply the denominator by SIN(X)*SIN(Y). Take the expression to the EQW. Select the numerator, press * and type SIN(X), press * again and type SIN(Y). Now select the product SIN(X)*SIN(Y) that you just have entered and COPY it. Select the denomintor and press * again. (If you paid attention you must have noticed that you had * three times, so by this time you are a three stars general of the EQW-corp.) Now we can take the part COS(Y)*COS(X) of the denominator away and put it in a new denominator of the part SIN(X)*SIN(Y) that is on the numerator. Select COS(Y)*COS(X) and press CUT. Press the backspace key once to get rid of the place holder left by the CUT operation. Now go to the numerator and select again the part SIN(X)*SIN(Y) that you have enter a couple of years ago. Press / and then PASTE. Select the whole sub-expression SIN(X)*SIN(Y)/(COS(Y)*COS(X)) and press TRIGTAN . You get a part of the solution, the part TAN(X)*TAN(Y) .While this part is selected, CUT it. Press backspace once to get rid of the place holder again. Select the whole remaining expression, press * and then PASTE to put the sub-expression back. Now select the ratio that is before TAN(Y)*TAN(X) and press PARTFRAC. The ratio is splitted in two smaller ratios. Select the first and do a TRIGTAN to it. Select the second and do TRIGTAN again. Now you can put that back on the stack again, or stay in the EQW and examine what happens if you apply each and every command of the HP49G to the expression. What? You want more? OK, take this for today and try to solve them alone. 1 1 1 ------- + --------- = ----------------- 2 2 2 2 COS(X) SIN(X) SIN(X) * COS(X) 2 2 / / | SIN(X) + COS(X) | - | SIN(X) - COS(X) | = 4*SIN(X)*COS(X) / / 2 1 1+TAN(X) = --------- 2 COS(X) 1 1 1+ --------- = -------- 2 2 TAN(X) SIN(X) 1 2 1 2 -------- * COS(X) = --------- - COS(X) 2 2 TAN(X) TAN(X) Donët miss the next part of the marathon, where weëll be talking about the solutions of the above beasts, other trigonometric relations and relations of the Scottland with Greece, or in other words, ... you will see ;-) Pythagorian greetings,