A539 === Subject: Re: Quadlemma Looks like a d.8eja vu. Some time ago (Sep 03) I reported in my post: |Does someone recall the German introduction to download the advanced |user guide for the HP49? I have preserved it. Unfortunately only the |printout but not an electronic copy. Here is a copy word by word! | |Das Material in der Anleitung des Benutzers mit Vorkenntnissen ist |ist die Anleitung, die mit dem HP 49G kommt). Sie ben.9atigen Austausch |lesen und zu drucken. | |Seilt.8anzerleser ist freie Software. Sie k.9annen ihn bereits haben |installiert auf Ihren Computer. Wenn nicht, k.9annen Sie ein Exemplar |von der Web site des luftgetrockneten Ziegelsteins downloaden... | |In case you're unexpectedly :-) not so familiar with the German |language, here are some explanations. |1. As you know, ADOBE is not only the brand of a software manufacturer |but also denotes a special kind of sun- (and/or air-) dried brick or |wall. Consequently lufgetrockneter Ziegelstein is simply ... :-) | |2. ACROBAT not only stands in for a product of the aforesaid software |manufacturer, but also for well trained artist with special skills |e.g. walking tight ropes. And that's exactly what this crude |translation says. | |To summarize what the advice for the German advanced user was, here is |my reverse translation :-) | |The material for the user with previous knowledge is available as a |set of sundried-brick-pdf-files(...). You'll need exchange of the |rope-dancer-reader (v.3+) or of the rope-dancer in order to read and |print these files. | |Rope-dancer-reader is free software. It may be already installed on |your computer or you can download a copy from the Web site of the |air-dried-brick... === Subject: Re: Quadlemma I haven't come across gems like that in the 50g manual. To (mis)quote a famous saying in this ng, they just don't make them like that any more. Well, maybe the translation programs got better, or Carly got fired, or both. But you still find a lot of nonsensical word-to-word (and punctuation-to-punctuation) translations (L.9fbke English, only the other way round), like the following at the beginning of Ch. 5: Objekt, oder einfach, Algebraik, ... That's not nearly as funny as the brick rope-dancer files, but still good enough for a chuckle. Albert -- Dr. Albert Graf Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany Email: Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de WWW: http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag === Subject: Re: Quadlemma I don't know exactly when HP came out with the better PDF docs, but they have existed for the 49G+ for a long while, and I believe were only touched up recently to say 50G with minor adjustments like showing the fourth battery (also adding the Equation library); my overall point was of course that there was nothing significantly new introduced at*the*time the 50G replaced the 49G+, which was in effect more a marketing move, not that there hadn't been much improvement *before*, already accomplished by the time the 3rd generation of 49G+ was in production. Spin Doctor adjustment: Includes free language-learning tools :) Indeed, that's exactly what I had been trying to say (but your English and perspective have put it better :) -[ ]- === Subject: Re: Quadlemma Not quite sure about that but ... OMG, what happened to your sig? Did the [On] key wear out? Albert -- Dr. Albert Graf Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany Email: Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de WWW: http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag === Subject: Re: Quadlemma On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 18:43:20 -0600: Why no, it was actually the ENTER key which first broke! [on my 49G+] The rest is silence http://www.bartleby.com/66/74/51274.html http://www.bartleby.com/100/138.32.236.html http://www.bartleby.com/46/2/52.html http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/uni/nec/CHARNE22.HTM === Subject: Integration-Maybe the books wrong? Please help! I am following the book that came with the 50g but can't seem to do simple integration. The book gives several choices: INT, INTVX, RISCH, SIGMA and SIGMAVX. According to the book, INT does the integration and evaluates it for the value given. No example or syntax rules are given and I can't figure them out. More seriously however when I try integrating x^2 using INTVX(X^2) the return I get is INTVX Error: Numeric input. What in the world does that error message mean? I've searched the manuals for that but can't find any explanation. What is more puzzling is that INTVX(e^x) works. Then looking at the RISCH option, the book on page 11-4 shows RISCH(s^2-s,s) as an example and shows 1/3s^3-1/2s^2 and that would seem to be the right option for doing polynomial integration but when I try that example, I get a similiar error: RISCH Error: Numeric input again. Then when I try the books example SIGMA(s*s!,s) instead of getting the books answer of s! I get the same thing back that I entered namely SIGMA(s*s!,s). I havn't dropped the calculator. I havn't stored anything in x or vx. The calculator seems to work correctly for everything else, but how do I do simple integration of polynomials such as x^2 or X^3+x, etc. === Subject: Re: Integration-Maybe the books wrong? R=. === Subject: Re: Integration-Maybe the books wrong? And DERIV vs. DERVX for differentiation. The VX versions of commands assume that the name of the variable of integration/differentiation is the default which you have previously set (the system *creates* the default 'X' to begin with, so there's no such thing as not having a VX); thus these versions of the commands use one argument less. RISCH is what corresponds to INTVX without the VX :) INT appears to be a combination of RISCH and where (what happens to an optional constant of integration?) SIGMA[VX] are for *discrete* antiderivative, where G(x+1)-G(x) is the function given as argument to SIGMA. Error: Numeric input means that *real* number types (with decimal points) were found in the arguments where integers are required exclusively. To avoid this, set Exact mode before typing input, to integers (non-integer reals convert to integer fractions). Enter input in Exact mode, or type XQ afterwards (XQ also *sets* exact mode, for any future input). === Subject: Re: Integration-Maybe the books wrong? On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 20:01:41 -0600: It really means Non-symbolic input; integers are part of the symbolic CAS world, whereas real numbers are not, even if their fractional parts happen to be zero. Some argument rejection seems quite random and quirky, e.g. 2. INTVX is perfectly acceptable (answer: '2.*X') while '2.*X' INTVX is not; DERVX doesn't mind either input. Unless you care to remember all these quirks, the use of Exact mode for input, and/or XQ to rationalize input, will make everything acceptable to the very particular CAS. It's a good thing the CAS doesn't require exact pronunciation, too :) Humor from My Fair Lady [Lerner & Loewe]: In France every Frenchman Knows his language from A to Zed -- The French don't care what they do actually, As long as they pronounce it properly :) http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/whycantt.htm http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2006/12/thank_you_for_s.html === Subject: Re: Integration-Maybe the books wrong? ALL the problems went away. Amazing! Simply amazing! === Subject: Re: Integration-Maybe the books wrong? === Subject: Problem with running HP-GCC programs on new HP50G Hi all, I just got a new HP50G for Christmas, to replace my HP49G+. (The keyboard is way better!) I am trying to run the example games that come with HP-GCC (tetris, etc). They work fine on my HP-49G+. However, on the 50G, I get an error (PRLNK error: Not an ARM program). message saying that the string is not an ARM program. I installed the ARM Toolbox just like I did on the 49G+, into port 2. My 50G says it has Revision # 2.08 (in response to VERSION). The 49G+ is #2.00. Does anyone know why this is happening? Tom === Subject: Re: Problem with running HP-GCC programs on new HP50G Yes. TW === Subject: Re: Problem with running HP-GCC programs on new HP50G seeing your post. I had been copying LIB275 directly from the attic; I used SETUP.BIN and all is well. I had a vague recollection of seeing the post you === Subject: Re: Problem with running HP-GCC programs on new HP50G a) you did NOT install it properly, try again b) your object has a bit-flaw, download again === Subject: Re: Cr Gilles, le Thu 04 Jan 2007 22:04:35 +0100, a .8ecrit : Ah, et j'oubliais www.hp-network.com === Subject: Re: Cr Bonjour, Hp-network est malheuresement particuli.8erement p.8enible .88 utiliser cot.8e forum :( Je viens de faire un tour sur hpcalc.hpcalc mais .8d.88 semble mort (et enterr.8e m.90me derniers message datant de 6 mois qui est un spam;) Pour des forums tres peu actifs (voir hp-network), le principe de liste de diffusion (par e-mail si on veut) me semble plus adapt.8e qu'un site web o.9d l'on perd son temps .88 aller voir qu'il n'y a rien (sans parler du mot de passe oubli.8e etc.)... mais vu la difficult.8e .88 se procurer une hp50 en France, cela n'est pas tres .8etonnnant. En tout cas, je l'ai depuis 2 jours et je la trouve tres agr.8eable .88 utiliser... La doc en fran.8dais sur le CD est finalement tres bien et assez compl.8ete. Gilles === Subject: Re: Cr Gilles, le Thu 04 Jan 2007 22:04:35 +0100, a .8ecrit : Samuel === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator Would you marry woman like that ? If yes, good luck. === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator Dr. Lilith Sternin? I think someone like her would make an excellent wife (although Lilith did get a bit overly emotional on rare occasions). -- [CapitalThorn].bes ofereode, [CapitalYAcute]isses swa m.beg. (That passed away, this also can.) from Deor, in the Exeter Book (folios 100r-100v) === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator I agree. Linux is well positioned to be deployed in data centers especially on the server side monitored and maintained by experts. It doesn't really need a GUI there. In fact you can use any OS here such as UNIX as long as it does well maintenance of the network and files, so using Linux that you can have for free makes sometimes good business case and it will probably survive there as a niche product. What I consider to be a pipe dream is a belief that Linux will somehow migrate successfully from the server into the user desktop and win hearts and minds of the general public at the desktop side. It's notgonnahappen.com and Linux community has a lot to do with it by failing to see numerous interface flaws and problems associated with Linux. Add to it general lack of equivalent applications, drivers, devices which is almost guaranteed to be the case in the future due to the chicken and egg problem of not having large enough Linux user base to support equivalent development resources as there are always devoted to the Windows side. Also consider stupidity that many in the Linux community display such as chronic hatred of anything from Microsoft which makes their other arguments very unconvincing for the normal people. For example Cindy Sheehan IMHO hurts more the peace cause than damaging George Bush. I think in some twisted way she actually helps the president. Whatever flaws M$ have they also have number of a very good and popular applications and technologies that are hardly matched by the competition and every reasonable person can see that. Chronic hatred of M$ hurts more the hater cause than it does to the Microsoft cause. Most of the Windows users are actually very happy with what they have despite of all the hype about failures of Windows. In the end for the user it is not about the underlying OS but about the applications they use successfully. Despite all the FUD of M$ haters Windows in most cases works flawlessly or if there is an issue, the fix can be easily found, explained and implemented by the very inexperienced user just following simple steps given over the phone if the expert is even needed at all. Do not also discount large internet database of advices that are available for problems with Windows. Unlike with Linux, even solutions to the very exotic Windows problems are often easily found user base. Yes, the rich GUI has a lot to do with it too. It is an Windows advantage that a large number of OS settings in Windows is done through the GUI tools available in Control Panel or in the Administrative tools. If you really care about the Linux deployment and success in the general community, make every possible effort when trying to help some newbie to solve the problem to STAY AWAY form console command line and STAY AWAY from editing manually mystic ASCII settings in some system files as long as you can. In fact repeat this mantra as a prayer every time somebody inexperienced ask you for help with some Linux problem. As soon as you mentione Command Line the high chance is that you lost another one to Ditech. Yes, I know it is unfair, since many Windows fixes are really made by surgery on the mystic registry. But this is the nature of every upstart trying to beat the champ. It is not enough to be as good as the champ. You have to be visibly better than the champ. I recall when the TI 89/92 come on the market. It was significantly better calculator out of the box than HP48 at the time. But even than it had a hard time to convince many that it was in fact a better machine. It took many years for HP to be forced to come up with the HP50 which is finally a better product than TI 89/92 twins were. === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator So with automobiles, have the Japanese taken taken the market from the Americans due to the lower Japanese quality? === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator John. So does the command line interface commands on computers. Almost all of them are using some form of help such as /? etc. My point here is that if you have to deal with large number of applications with rich set of commands you will end up hopelessly shifting through help just to find out proper syntax assuming you know the command name itself to start with. Well desinged GUI is far more powerfull and user friendly in that matter and makes user work faster unless you deal with a relatively simple applications where you can memorize all necessary commands. But in such case it is not much different than using keyoborad shortcuts which even Microsoft is utilizing to speed up repetitive work. Regarding HP50, are you talking about Catalog ? If yes, it is way too primitive. I found that it does not help much to recall forgotten functionality and syntax. Even TI catalog is a tiny bit better since at least it gives you argument list with the command name. I found that HP missed the boat by not giving this extra piece of information in its catalog. CAS help is a little bit better. Interestingly, when I tought about your answer, it occured to me, that my example wasn't perfect since HP is not really a command line interface device. It actually employs GUI in the form of menus and icon toolbars :-). So does TI for that matter so they are not as primitive as I originally stated. Agree. === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator JHM: Oh, has someone found a way to make a CAS so that no one needs any help with formulas or functions (or even to find them), where the GUI eliminates the need for formula or function syntax, and even guesses the function name for you when you haven't a clue? Having to type HELP to get CAS help is really tough, but that's what you have to put up with for spending only $120 or so, and for choosing so backward an appliance as an HP calculator at the current end of this series :) CAS help -- yes, that's what I said :) ...and external help library for other commands [me, above] So maybe we agree now? :-) JHM: And I am right, and you are right, and all is right as right can be :) [W. S. Gilbert - The Mikado] http://math.boisestate.edu/gas/mikado/webopera/mk103.html [complete with MIDI file for your Karaoke pleasure] Note the very on-topic link to a *math* department :) === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator Actually, that's not true: You can get a Sony Vaio UX at a very similar form factor to a handheld calculator (5.91(W) x 3.74(H) x 1.27-1.50(D), probably smaller than your Voyage 200), which runs hard drive. Feel free to load it up with Matlab, Maple, Mathematica, Visual Studio, or whatever else you like. Or run Linux on it. Or, if you are really nostalgic, run any caluclator emulator on it you like. This thing runs circles around VP's silly ideas of a next generation calculator. === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator Not all ideas are mine - I just gave an appertizer AND we will see before 2010 if those ideas were silly after all I think you are comparing oranges and watermelons... === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator For the price of the Ferrari one should expect performance :-) === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator This thing runs circles around VP's silly ideas of a next generation calculator. For the price of the Ferrari one should expect performance :-) Yes indeed, and I think I also said I could get excited about doing that for about $595 which is what an average laptop costs today. The exception to that cost figure of course is anything from Sony so I'll be looking into the Khojinsha XP PC available from Conics.net with the English version of XP. With Maple or Mathematica on that baby, who cares what the next incarnation of the calculator will be. The only question now is how do you get the Khojinsha XP PC repaired if it cr.aps out a year after you buy it? === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator After reading all these postos about Linux vs Windows (vs Mac) I am now sure that Linux would be a wrong choise for a HP calc The new Windows CE 6.0 (Phone Edition?) is the best choise Native ARM CPU code up to 1GHz should be enough for Pro === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator : After reading all these postos about Linux vs Windows (vs Mac) : I am now sure that Linux would be a wrong choise for a HP calc It really doesn't matter which OS would be the best for the calc. HP doesn't support the use of linux with any of their calcs now and will never do so in the future. Even in the server market HP makes it difficult to run linux on their servers. HP is far to closely tied to ms to ever support linux. -- ------------------- Keep working millions on welfare depend on you === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator I think you are confused. One should be using what is the most powerfull tool available. Therefore one should stick with RPN on calculators and Windows with MS Office on PCs. Unless of course one prefers dumbed down applications or primitive outdated interfaces based on ancient command line interface === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator Good joke ! === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator When the Mits Altais and the IMSAI 8080 first started becoming available to the average person I thought it was great. That's because I thought it meant that sooner or later, everyone would *have* to learn to think like a harware engineer. Unfortunately it never occurred to me that home computers would be dumbed-down to the point that users could use them without a soldering iron. Anyway, I don't care how marginal LED's, hardware straps and front panel switches are considered to be by the majority of the public, as long as I get to keep using them myself. I learned a long time ago that the better something is, the fewer the people who like it (and conversely, the more popular something is, the lower the quality is likely to be.) CLI's and GUI's are for imbecile morons - *real* computer users implement their applications directly in hardware !!!! -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/ === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/ === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator Don't get Windoes, Don't get Linux Get a Mac: Buy a motorcycle! === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator repairs, Right... right :-) and Apple should have the slogan : Feel the wind ! (only the few of us would understand where it all came from) About Mac/apple: ------------------ when they decided to switch to x86 processors, and enabled windows to power it ... they became just another x86 PC brand (Mac platform as we know it ceased to exist) But if apple took Acorn's computer concept (or created something on their own based on ARM), used multiple ARM cores of recent date... now that would be something, not even *werty* could object too :-) manjo === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator Christ... the Mac platform is a SOFTWARE platform. It's at least 15 years since or more since a normal user had any reason to worry about the processor used in their computers. By switching to the fastest ARM-based processor, Apple would also be switching to processors that are about a magnitude slower.... well done, Manjo. === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator their not Yes, and... your point is ? My point simple : -these tiny little proc's have great connectivity and power/MHz ratio -at this time they are still much slower but in the near future... can you tell ? -since all mobile devices are ARM based and since all computing (except for servers) is moving to mobile... having a desktop on whined-up ARM base is imagionable for me. Although ahead of it's time, Acorn's concept on ARM was not a success, but never say never... MS and Linux are already there (having OS for ARM platform ready) Who can be sure to tell that future will not belong to some ARM descendant ? I don't know with which part to disagree first : If Mac is a software platform -why then would they want to re-label the common PC as Mac and sell that as genuine Mac ? Aren't you confusing Mac and MacOS ? In the past 15 years there are many procesors available to choose from, although while working with your computer you may or may not feel significant difference. By simple fact that at some point buyer needs to choose from all this makes it obvious : Where is a decision making process (ie choosing) there are the worries and doubt of your normal user. manjo === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator You are wrong on this... the ARM, when it first appeared, was actually one of the fastest general-purpose processors you could get. In 2007 this is now longer the case (and hasn't been for a while), and the performance difference between the fastest ARM and an x86-class processor is just growing. *You* are confused. I currently have 3 Macs - a G3 iBook, a dual G5 PowerMac and a Core Duo MacBook. All of these are unmistakably Macs, and none of them could be mistaken for a PC. In fact, if you place my MacBook next to the Powerbook model it replaced, it would take somebody with very familiar with Macs to be able to tell the difference. They have the same form factor, the same IO ports, the same sort of elegance. I really do not understand where you get the notion that current Macs are re-labelled PCs... I can only assume that you have never used a Mac, or compared the HW of a recent Mac with a common PC. Normal users are lemmings, and choose what lemmings of their acquaintance have chosen. === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator X Ofcourse they are if they use Intel Core 2 CPU's Why? ¬becasuse you can use the same OS, eg. windows XP reloads into the Apple Matrix as well as 50G is just a relabeled 49g+ despite the HW difference since it uses the same ROM === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator That's a pretty stupid argument... yes, it is possible to buy an Intel-based Mac and run Windows on it... that gives you a better-looking-than-average Windows box, and also, possibly, a higher-performance-than-average Windows box. You cannot, on the other hand, buy a random PC, put a Mac label on it and run MacOSX on it. === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator It was supposed to be... === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator I admit ...you're right (sarcasm) -if they needed 10-20 years to realize that VI needs *minor* improovements -then it might come to that they need 15-20 years to realize that days are numbered Don't cry too much when you see a truly *great* PDA, smartphone..whatever... also feel free to think : boy... would i buy thiss... but only if it was powered by linux Just remember : it's already assimilated ...otherwise... feel free to browse :-) NOTE: Open-Source is not about Linux, windows whatever... it's about free software with avilable (released to the public) sources and freedom (legal right) to implement changes on your own. manjo (The resistance is futile! :-) === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator I'm more convinced that MS and Windows will be gone in 15-20 years... vi does not need ANY improvements - there is no shortage of other editors under Unix/Linux. If you don't like VI, use one of those. === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator Funny, I've heard the same argument 15 years ago. === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator January 5th 2007 -15 years = 1991-92 You must mean something like Windows 2.0...3.11 since there was no Windows 95 on those days === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator Good catch. It wasn't 15 years ago. Just 12 Assuming Vista will be a total flop maybe people 12 years ago were right ? But I predict here, that Vista will be zillion dollar success for Microsoft for the next 8 years or so which will eventually add up to 20. It just a gut feeling :-) === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator The next windows Blcak Comb is canned M$ will start a new series of modular upgrades so they can manage the projects in shorter time They will upgrade only one part of the software Like a new GUI then a new Storage system (WinFS finally) then renew web sussystem and interface then something else Look how many years in took from XP to Vista Think how many it would take to build the next system? Just my educated opinion about making the most $ using the mopolistic situation Also...something really new might be developed... but the idea is so silly that I presented in another news This is way OT for even a super-calc OS discussion... === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator Why is that a bad thing ? I think it is great, that Windows evolved into a modular system that you can be upgraded piecewise. It will probably be beneficial for everybody and might be even greater threat to every other OS including Linux since with the modular system they can react faster to any small threats and with the lower development cost to them and to the end user and also they can quiclkly introduce features and functionality that the other OS will then struggle to catch up with :-) Great. What you really described is a different business model but the end effect is pretty much the same. If I understand you correctly in 8 years Vista will probably evolve by small steps into something that is almost unrecognizible from the Vista as we know it today. How it is different from the current business model except that the change is delivered slowly over time instead of one major big upgrade and the cost to the user is stretched into small upgrade payments instead of one big cost when one is buying new major Windows upgrade ? It doesn't matter much if I end up paying $100 once in five years or $20 every year. I guess it depends on how well or how bad Vista is coded. I don't the sake of doing it. To the contrary, their strength (and sometimes burden that other OS has advantage of ignoring) is in maintaining compatibility so one would like to reduce rewriting of the core code to the absolute minimum. If the kernel is finally written for Vista on the good level, there will be no reason to go through the major rewrite next time, but rather through the modular improvements of the processes around the core to stay on top of the new technology that will become available and to remain competitive. Not quite. Just look on this forum. It doesn't seem Windows is a monopoly at all. To the contrary, me and manjo seem to be a tiny minority here :-) === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator RA-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT *KABOOM* ! You forgot Mac & Sharp which are more advanced in their UI than the notmal choises... === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator X You can have a dual-boot machine eg. Windows & Linux or Core 2 Duo Mac booting to Windows XP ONLY HP 48GII, 49G, 49g+, 50G offer this dualboot except that no boot is erequired and you can use RPL or HP_BASIC programs criss-cross and have always 'Albebraic' on stack or even : : `HP-BASIC` If I was about to buy a laptop, it might a Mac.... === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator affirmative there... a friend has a mac laptop -they're packed with nice features, just to name one : keyboard illumination (when ambient light goes out) === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator My IBM ThinkPad has keyboard illumination too (I'm using it right now). -- [CapitalThorn].bes ofereode, [CapitalYAcute]isses swa m.beg. (That passed away, this also can.) from Deor, in the Exeter Book (folios 100r-100v) === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator very nice... anyways that illumination gizmo is realy neat manjo === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator Oh i see... i am sorry and i apologize for this must be a missunderstanding i didn't mean freak in personal, bad, kind of way i took the liberty to lookup Freak for you !! Freak ------- 6. Slang. a. a person who has withdrawn from normal, rational behavior and activities to pursue one interest or obsession: a drug freak. b. a devoted fan or follower; enthusiast: a baseball freak. c. a hippie. ...your guess is right B is the one i ment... for further examples or missunderstandings feel free to lookup your self at : dictionary.com (oo, by the way i'm not a hostile person and i don't tend to get it all personal ... like so many Linuxers i know) NOTE: some friends of mine are also Linux freaks so... we get in to this kind of debates from time to time... since they still use windows at some point (either job, school, helping the kid to learn... whatever)... i won't go further... Since you insist on geting personal ... this is realy a good time for me to retire because calling names is not in windows manual :-) manjo === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator All Linux users are hippies - like me! === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator Go *away* ...you... :-) hippie !! :-) hehe VPN -you just kill me every time when i get almost mad with shallow arguments you hit my break/reset button :-) and i instantly feel comfortable and relaxed :-) i hope you will have a nice day tomorrow... You paper-clipped me ! wouldn't that be a fun message when you paper-clip reset the HP calc ? manjo === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator Really? How depressingly boring. VJP === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator Not bad. But no touch screen, so using it slate-like won't be much fun. But to spill some oil into the fire, also read this: and this: http://superdave.blogdns.org/superdave/BlogEntry/2006/12/06 which could be seen as a nice and compact conclusion of that lengthy discussion Raymond === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator Well, actually the thing does run Linux already, but as always there's surely some missing drivers for some special bits and pieces of the hardware which will need to be written. If the Kohjinsha is a success then that is bound to happen sooner or later. Yes, the reviewer makes the point that he doesn't want Linux on it, but I'm sure that many will. :) -- Dr. Albert Graf Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany Email: Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de WWW: http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator : Ok, Wayne and Frank : and go cry somwhere... Don't do that. : -if VI is the Linux kind of perfection ... i have realy nothing more to say, : but enjoy your computer. Other then running on Linux the perfection of vi has nothing to do with linux. : OpenSource (linux part) is going nowhere, while users are making themselves : belive it's perfect You lost me. I was using a vi port of vi on dos long before there was a linux. : I most probably am to bound and blinded with windows too much, so i can't se : the true user-friendlines, : and greatness of the user interface let alone all the power of use for VI. I'm sure if you look you could find a windows port of vi. : Hats down, : it realy can edit .cfg, .config, .txt, .htaccess, .cpp, .h and similar : files -what more could one possibly want... right ? If you wanted to bad enough you could edit a binary file. I wouldn't recommend it though. :-) : And IF it would support fonts, IF it would have syntax coloring, IF... soo : many ifs you wouldn't ned another editor :-) The opensource port of vi supports syntax coloring. VI is a text editor that works in ascii. The last time I checked ascii doesn't have any mention of fonts. When I want a word processor I use either latex or [nt]roff and sometimes lout. : I'm just looking at the early MS-DOS Edit what's that compared to VI -right : ? That's nice. : I noticed that there is this line of character in Linux user that will : deliberately fail to see that it CAN be better it CAN look nicer : it CAN be easier and thereby it CAN be faster and more confortable. You lost me again. : All i hear is : it's so perfect, that's how it works, this is by design, i : don't have time for this at this time and so on... ?? : On the other hand... i haven't heard so many win-users say that it can't get : better (not even myself consider myself very happy with win)... and thereby : better we have... It can't get any better until ms forces the next release of it's os on you. : -literally day by day, besides of making money for what you do, which is : perfectly natural, that realy is a drive for windows scene. -- ------------------- Keep working millions on welfare depend on you === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator Besides vim (reference in previous post), there's Cygwin, which gives you *all* Linux-like stuff (including GCC), but runs under Windows (no separate partition). Cygwin is a Linux-like environment for Windows http://www.cygwin.com [free, by the way] There's also the old MKS, but that was very pricey (however, a very neat sampling of their utilities, including vi under DOS, came on a diskette along with a book Learning Unix) Do people still buy MKS Toolkit when Cygwin is free? http://reviews.cnet.com/4566-3513 7-0.html?filter=1000036 6856576 MKS is still alive and well, apparently, selling other stuff which hasn't become free: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MKS Inc. Occasionally some other extremely useful Unix-like utilities which Windows urgently needed for administration but never provided have been produced elsewhere, such as du for Windows by SysInternals, which has now been absorbed by M$ itself (and some of the utilities possibly taken out of circulation) http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/FileAndDisk/du.mspx -[ ]- === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator Well, I'd say that *all* Linux-like stuff is a bit of a stetch, as every half-decent Linux distribution comes with thousands of application programs nowadays. But yes, it's nice for porting stuff over from Unix, Linux and other POSIX systems. I might add that there's also a trimmed-down version of the environment, MSys/Mingw which just includes a Unix shell (zsh IIRC) and the gcc development kit, see http://www.mingw.org. That gcc version has the advantage that it produces native Windows binaries which can run without having the Cygwin libraries installed. There's also a very nice free IDE for that, Dev-C++, see http://www.bloodshed.net. It seems that MKS is quite a different product nowadays. I really can't imagine why anyone would still want to use the old MKS, now that so much better open source alternatives exist. Albert -- Dr. Albert Graf Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany Email: Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de WWW: http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag === Subject: Re: Desing a new Super-calculator format=flowed; reply-type=original Here's a version of VI for Windows: http://www.vim.org/docs.php It doesn't quite do EVERYTHING VI does but it has other features not in VI Tom Lake === Subject: Generating the ROM by Eric Rechlin's CASrelease Hi all, I'm trying to generate the HP49 rom by running Eric Rechlin's CASrelease. As its readme instructs I've firstly installed Cygwin software, which is working normally. When accessing the ROM directory and launching the make command, I get a message make: command not found. I've noticed that the ROM directory has a file named makefile, but when typing it I get the same error message (makefile: command not found). What could be happening? === Subject: Re: Generating the ROM by Eric Rechlin's CASrelease On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 11:21:28 -0600: If you might like to update all the way to version 2.09 (or even to BP's latest version with geometry & spreadsheet, posted in France), then ask here for how to do that also (no assembly needed :) === Subject: Re: Generating the ROM by Eric Rechlin's CASrelease Read this: (Howto Compile your own HP49G ROM (1.24) from the LGPL CAS) - GaaK - === Subject: Re: Generating the ROM by Eric Rechlin's CASrelease PATH === Subject: Re: RS232 and HP49+ or HP50 Found an interesting site that may help us DIY's: http://www.superdroidrobots.com/shop/category.asp?catid=41 It's a 3.3V/5V TTL to RS232 converter that's built-into the cable head. Requires external power, which can be provided by the battery output of the HP50G (perhaps with a diode to limit the 6V to 5.3V). Should solder directly to a clipped store-bought USB cable. --Scott === Subject: Re: RS232 and HP49+ or HP50 but wasn't that the problem with the 48GII's serial port: on as a slave/client of a PC, (which then provides the power) Anyway a hardware hack is needed... === Subject: Re: RS232 and HP49+ or HP50 You may also want to have a look at a parasitically powered Bluetooth Serial adapter on the RS232 port of you device. Then you can connect from a PC, PDA, or Mac via Bluetooth wireless. Blueconsole manufacters one: www.blueconsole.com === Subject: Re: 50G Cable Survey I'd forgotten about this thread. Actually, I suppose that the best system (from the viewpoint of a hobbyist who wants to know for sure which is which) would be to make all cables straight-through M-F or of the F-F or M-M gender-changer types, make F-F and M-M gender-changer adapters available, and make all null modems of a M-F adapter type (after all, a M-F straight-through adapter wouldn't make much sense). That way the only question would be just which type of null modem the M-F adapter was. But the reality is that we have a variety of cables and adapters available, and I can't tell for certain just by looking at it whether any particular cable, F-F adapter, or M-M adapter is of straight-through or the null modem variety, unless it happens to be labelled. Although they weren't available at John's local Radio Shack, it's easy to find quite a variety of F-F and M-M null modem adapters and cables with an on-line search, as well as M-F null modems, F-F and M-M gender-changer adapters and even gender-changer cables, and of course ordinary M-F straight-through cables. Realistically, if I were designing a mass production solution for connecting, say, a DCE to another DCE, both with female connectors, some choices would be: 1. A M-M null modem cable. 2. A standard M-F straight-through cable plus a M-M null modem adapter. 2. A M-F null modem adapter plus a M-M gender-changer cable. 3. A standard M-F straight-through cable, plus a M-F null modem adapter, plus a M-M gender-changer adapter. Which of the above do you suppose that I'd be most likely to choose? I'd have guessed *most*; I don't think that I'd ever actually run across a M-F null modem until John mentioned one, but then too, it had been a long time since I'd looked for a null modem of any type. a device would've been for connecting a pair of close together DTEs to each other directly, without having a pair of modems and telephone equipment between them, so the F-F variety of null modem (either adapter or cable) seems quite natural to me. Of course, the serial port of a DTE can be used for connecting to DCE devices other than modems, and such DCE devices can be often be usefully connected to each other (or a modem) through their serial ports. I suppose that, for better a worse, the term null modem, already in use for similar adapters, became attached to M-M adapters for directly connecting DCEs to each other, although null terminal would've been a more accurate name. It seems to me that to make use of a M-F null modem, I'd (usually) need a F-F gender changer to use it for connecting a pair of DTEs, or a M-M gender changer to use it for connecting a pair of DCEs. I'm aware that gender-changer F-F and M-M cables are available, but the F-F and M-M cables that I've used were all of a null modem variety. After all, what would I want a F-F cable for besides connecting a pair of DTEs, or a M-M cable for besides connecting a pair of DCEs? Yeah, I know, gender-changer cables would be useful with M-F null modems, of course. All too true, and I'd guess still true. But for these calculators, we're only concerned with the data signal and ground lines, and can often ignore how the handshaking lines are connected, as long as it doesn't cause a failure in a whatever equipment we're connecting a calculator to, that is. For anything that actually uses the handshaking lines, I rather prefer the double-ended adapters that I can wire together myself, or a home-made cable and connectors assembly. Other than that, it seems to be a matter of either trial and error or ringing out the connections to find out how they're actually made to find a null modem that works correctly. Yes Eric, I'm quite aware of that, but DB9 seems to be a very common (mis)name for what's actually a DE9 connector. If we use the term DB9, then nearly everyone at all familiar with the serial ports of PCs will understand what we mean. If I use the term DE9, then I expect that many (most?) would think that it's a typo, unless I also explained that it was actually the correct term. But here's a strange one. For my Epson printers that have an added-in serial port using a DB25 connector, it's a female connector. Okay, that seems to make sense; a printer ought to be a DCE, right? But wait, it's actually designed as a DTE, even though it has a female connector. Why would that be? Well, I guess that the explanation for it being DTE is that the printer already has a built-in parallel port, which would normally be used for a connection to a nearby PC, and I suppose that the reasoning is that if an add-on serial port is wanted, then it's wanted for connecting to a modem for connection through telephone equipment to a remote modem and thence to another DTE. I don't know why Epson used a female connector for a DTE, but it's yet another example that things aren't always what they at first appear to be. Anyway, to connect a calculator to these printers, I use a gender-changer instead of a null modem, and to connect the printer to a PC using the serial port (which I've never been sufficiently motivated to try; the parallel port works just fine), I'd need a null modem of the M-F variety (or an assembly that amounts to that). -- James === Subject: Syncing two (or more) 49g+/50G calcs via SD card Just curious what solutions others have thought of to sync (the HOME dir that is) two 49g type calculators via an SD card? One can of course just run ARCHIVE after each calc session, then RESTORE on the other calc, but I'm looking for a way that is less prone to error. A program that keeps track of backups via a numbering scheme comes to mind, but the difficulty here is that there doesn't seem to be an easy way to list the backup files on the SD card (is there no equivalent of TVARS for a port?). Steve