B119 ********************************************************* HP 48 S/SX/G/GX Frequently Asked Questions List ********************************************************* PART 1 of 4: Common Questions: Sections I - III Currently Maintained by: Keith Maddock (madd0118@nova.gmi.edu) Originally Compiled by: Darryl Okahata The purpose of this FAQ is to provide answers to commonly asked questions about the Hewlett Packard 48 family of scientific calculators. This list contains information which has not necessarily been verified, and is not guaranteed to be correct, or even reflecting reality. :-) It has been compiled from various postings in comp.sys.handhelds and comp.sys.hp48 as well as other sources. In particular, some parts were taken from older HP 48SX FAQ lists. For some questions, there may be different answers for each calculator (G/GX vs. S/SX). In this case S/SX specific information is preceded by an SX: on the left margin of the first line of each S/SX specific paragraph. G/GX information is denotated by a GX: in the same place. If a paragraph has no notation, then it is valid for all versions. You should be able to find the latest version of the FAQ at the following locations: cbs.cis.com: /pub/hp48g/uploads/48faqxxx.zip or /pub/hp48g/documentation/48faqxxx.zip hermes.stud.fh-heilbronn.de: /pub/hp48/info/FAQ/48faqxxx.zip or (caution: slow line!) /pub/hp48/incoming/48faqxxx.zip The FAQ is also available over the WWW in a hypertext form. The URL is: http://kahless.isca.uiowa.edu/hp/faq/faqindex.html There are also links at this location to other HP48 WWW resources. Please send any comments or suggestions to: Keith Maddock madd0118@nova.gmi.edu ********************************************************* ********************************************************* Key: ! =new Q/A + =revised answer Part 1: I. Misc. Questions 1.1 I'm a novice, and I have some questions. Where should I start? + 1.3 What are good places to buy HP48's and accessories? II. Questions about ROM versions 2.1 What does the SX/GX have that the S/G doesn't? 2.2 What is the difference between the HP 48G/GX and the HP 48S/SX? 2.3 How can I tell what ROM revision I have? 2.4 What bugs exist in the various versions of the HP 48? 2.5 What is new with the revision J ROM? (S/SX) 2.6 What happened to ROM revisions F, G, H, I, O, and Q? 2.7 Can I upgrade my HP 48S/SX? 2.8 Can I upgrade my buggy GX to the latest ROM revision? ! 2.9 What's the latest ROM version? ! 2.10 Why would I buy a S/SX rather than a G/GX? III. Questions about the Operating System / Using the HP 3.1 I typed 'RULES' on my G/GX and got a crossword puzzle! What does it mean? (GX) 3.2 Why does my HP 48 occasionally freeze for a moment? 3.3 What do I do if my HP 48 locks up? 3.4 My HP 48 seems to take longer to turn on and off. What's going on? 3.5 What are all the different ON-KEY combinations and what do they do? 3.6 What are the different interactive self-tests? 3.7 I can't account for some of the RAM in the HP 48! and When I clear my memory, I don't have 32K free! Why? 3.8 What are the best methods for dealing with libraries? 3.9 Why does (1/3)*3 equal 0.999999999999? 3.10 Why does my HP say that 0^0=1? 3.11 If I add two temperatures like 34 deg.F and 11 deg.F, I get 504.67 deg.F. Why don't I get 45 deg.F? 3.12 How can I add my own units? What's the 1_? unit for? 3.13 I want `pi' to be a numeric value, not a symbol. What's happening? 3.14 What are those little numbers near the top of my screen and how do I get rid of them? 3.15 What tricks are there for manipulating matrices? 3.16 Can I use my HP48 as a remote or phone dialer? 3.17 I could speed up my HP-28S. How can I speed up my HP 48? 3.18 What is the hidden directory and how do I access it? 3.19 How can I recall one object from a memory archive? PART 2: IV. Questions about cards, data transfers, batteries, hardware ! 4.1 Can I upgrade my S or G to more than 32K ram? ! 4.2 How can I get/build a cable for my HP48? 4.3 Why doesn't the I/R port work farther than a few inches? 4.4 Can my HP48 talk to my HP100LX via Infrared? 4.5 I downloaded a program to my HP, and when I ran it, it put a string on the stack like HPHP48-........ What's wrong? 4.6 Why does XRECV not work sometimes? (GX) 4.7 What do the funny symbols ->, GS+, etc., mean? 4.8 What are the pinouts for the HP 48 serial connector? 4.9 Is there any information on interfacing to the HP 48? 4.10 How can I transfer programs/data from my HP-28S to my HP 48? 4.11 Can I use rechargeable batteries with the HP 48? 4.12 How can I tell, from within a program, if the battery is low? 4.13 My RAM card was plugged into the calculator when I changed the RAM card battery, yet I lost all the information on the card. What happened? 4.14 Why do I get an Invalid card data error when I merge a RAM card? 4.15 I've heard that other manufacturer's RAM cards will work with the HP 48. Is this true? Will it work? 4.16 Why does the HP 48SX display flicker slightly? 4.17 I broke the LCD screen is there an easy way to get another? V. Questions about programs 5.1 Where can I get programs and information for the HP 48SX? 5.2 What are the Goodies Disks and where do I get them? 5.3 How do I get access to the HP Calculator BBS? 5.4 What are files that end with .zip, .Z or .z? 5.5 What is a ship file? 5.6 What is ->ASC or ASC->? 5.7 How can I get ->ASC and ->ASC? 5.8 What is the HYDE library, and how do I get rid of it? 5.9 What is the Minehunt game, and how do I use it? VI. Questions about programing and advanced user functions 6.1 I've heard the names RPL, Saturn, STAR, Voyager, GL, etc.. What do they mean ! 6.2 Is there a C compiler for the HP48? 6.3 Why do SysRPL programs run faster than UserRPL programs? 6.4 How do I know what library ID number to use for my program? 6.5 What information is there on the internals of the HP 48? 6.6 Are there any viruses for the HP48? 6.7 How do I store fields of variable length string data in a compact, rapidly accessible manner that does not require the overhead of storing strings in lists? 6.8 What is Vectored Enter, and how do I use it? 6.9 What is WSLOG? 6.10 What are SYSEVALs? + 6.11 What are some useful SYSEVALs? 6.12 What are LIBEVALs? 6.13 What are some useful LIBEVALs? 6.14 What is the format of a GROB object? ********************************************************************* PART 3: * Appendix A: ASC-> and ->ASC functions: * Appendix B: Using non-HP RAM cards in your HP 48SX: * Appendix C: What's new in the HP 48G/GX * Appendix D: The EquationWriter Bug & Rev J Bugfix * Appendix E: Compact Data Storage: * Appendix F: Various useful functions * Appendix G: Rotation rate to angular frequency conversion bug ! * Appendix H: How to make a Serial Cable for your HP48 PART 4: + * Appendix I: HP48 BEST PROGRAMS AND WHERE TO GET THEM LIST ****************************************************************** I. Misc. Questions ****************************************************************** 1.1 I'm a novice, and I have some questions. Where should I start? Start by perusing the HP 48 manuals. You'd be amazed how many questions can be answered if you read the manuals. SX:Earlier HP 48S/SX manuals came in two volumes. The first volume dealt with operating instructions, and the second volume dealt with programming. Later HP 48S/SX manuals combined these two volumes into one. GX:HP 48G/GX models come with a one-volume owners manual that covers all of the non-programming aspects of the calculator. An Advanced User's Reference (AUR) is available that covers programming aspects. It is highly recommended. They also come with a Quick Start Guide, a guided tour of some of the HP48's capabilities. Also, look over the section Answers to Common Questions, in Appendix A of the manual. If you have a two-volume manual, it will be in volume II. ****************************************************************** comp.sys.hp48 -- Primary newsgroup comp.sources.hp48 -- For HP 48 programs. (This newsgroup is moderated by Chris Spell -- send submissions to hp48@seq.uncwil.edu.) (this newsgroup has been dead for a few months now ) comp.sys.handhelds -- Occasionally, HP 48 information is posted to this newsgroup. ****************************************************************** 1.3 What are good places to buy HP48's and accessories? Educalc: Educalc carries a complete line of HP calculators and accessories. They also sell used HP48 S and SX's, and buy them as trade ins. To get a free catalog, call them. Toll Free Order: (800) 677-7001 ___ Orders and Customer Service Toll Order: (714) 582-2637 / 8-5, M-F, West Coast Time Credit Card Order: (800) 535-9650 ext. 9162 (all hours, all days) FAX orders: (714) 582-1445 Technical Support (714) 582-2637 Para ayuda en Espa¤ol - pregunte por Irma Elek-Tek: Elek-Tek seems to only carry HP name brand products. Their prices may be slightly cheaper than EduCalc, but they don't carry non HP brand products (such as RAM cards), that are much cheaper than HP brand ones. Toll Free: (800) 395-1000 Order: (708) 677-7660 Office Max: Toll Free: (800) 788-8080 Office Depot Executive Photo and Electronics: 120 West 31st St., New York, NY 10001-3485 Supposedly has different prices for 48 depending on country of manufacture.... Calculators Inc., Minneapolis, MN (612) 866-8908 Carrington, (800) 982-3731 Global Connections Incorporated (formerly Connection Point, Inc.) 50 South River Street, Suite 105, Janesville, WI 53545 (608) 752-9548 (608) 752-1537 Bristol, UK - Decimal Business Machines Ltd: at Three Queens' Lane. They're on 0272 294591/5. ****************************************************************** II. Questions about ROM versions ****************************************************************** 2.1 What does the SX/GX have that the S/G doesn't? SX: The HP 48S is the same as the HP 48SX except that the HP 48S does not have the two expansion slots of the HP 48SX. This means that the HP 48S cannot be expanded and can only access 32K of memory, versus 288K for the HP 48SX (two 128K RAM cards). (Actually, there are now third-party RAM cards that contain 256K or 512K on a single card -- this memory is accessed via a bank-switching mechanism.) GX: The HP48G is the same as the GX except for two differences. The GX has the 2 expansion ports, and also has 128K RAM built in, where the G only has 32K. If you plan on heavily using your calculator, you will probably find that 32K is not enough memory. ****************************************************************** 2.2 What is the difference between the HP 48G/GX and the HP 48S/SX? The HP 48G and the HP 48GX calculators are, basically, slightly faster (by 40%) versions of the HP 48S and HP 48SX calculators, with more features, such as 3D-plotting and a new forms-based interface. Much of the HP Solve Equation Library card is now built-in. See Appendix C for a detailed list of features. Note, however, that the HP 48G/GX is different from the HP 48S/SX in a number of significant areas: 1. The HP 48GX comes with 128KB RAM, as opposed to 32KB RAM in the HP 48SX. The HP 48G still has 32KB RAM, however. The HP 48G/GX also has twice the ROM (512K), compared the HP 48S/SX (256K). 2. Much of the HP 48G/GX internals have changed, compared with the HP 48S/SX. Unfortunately, this means than many programs written in assembly language or System RPL won't work on the HP 48G/GX. This is especially true of any program that tried to access the display memory directly. 3. The HP 48G/GX CPU runs at 4MHz, instead of the 2MHz used with the HP 48S/SX CPUs. However, due to various overhead (memory bank switching, etc.), the speed increase between the G/GX and S/SX is less than 2X. G/GX throughput is approximately 40% faster. 4. Port 2 of the HP 48G/GX can access up to 4MB, in 128K chunks (done via bank-switching). ****************************************************************** 2.3 How can I tell what ROM revision I have? GX:Type the command VERSION. Note that this command is not part of any key or menu, and so you must spell it out. Type #30794h SYSEVAL. It returns a string, HPHP48-x, where x is your ROM revision. This works for both SX and GX. SX:1. Turn the calculator on (press ON and then release). 2. Press ON again, and hold it down. 3. While holding down the ON key, press and hold down the D key (the fourth white key in the top row). 4. While holding down the D key, release the ON key. 5. Release the D key. The display should be blank, with the exception of three vertical lines (one down the center, and one down each of the right and left sides). 6. Press the backspace key (it says DROP and CLR over it). A meaningless string of digits should appear in the top line of the display (mine says 705D9:1B8DA178E5A111B6 -- yours may be different). 7. Press and hold down the EVAL key. It should say: Copyright HP 1989 where the * is an uppercase letter (A, B, etc.) indicating the ROM version. 8. Release the EVAL key. Hold down ON and hit C (the third white key in the top row. This is a general reset operation that returns the calculator to normal from the diagnostic stuff (which is where ON-D puts you). ****************************************************************** 2.4 What bugs exist in the various versions of the HP 48? Confirmed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A DEFINE rounds numbers in user-defined functions if STD is not the current display mode. A KGET on a zero length file from another machine will cause the calculator memory to be cleared. A NXEQ from the Graphics Environment with flag -3 set (SYM off in Modes) can overwrite the current equation with a number. A Displaying the clock in 24-hour format causes the one-digits for minutes to be incorrect in the alarm catalog. A,B,C INV returns an incorrect result if used on an 8x8 or larger matrix. To get around this problem, divide the identity matrix with the matrix to invert. A,B,C,D Entering a symbolic complex number in polar form like '(A, f << -40 CF OFF f STOF >> >> 91.3 ASN Turn on USER mode L,M EquationWriter/Character Picker Bug: If the size of the equation is greater than the regular size of the screen, calling the Character Picker in Equation Writer will garble the screen. M EVALing a tagged object which contains an operator (+, -, *, /, etc) as the second or subsequent character will leave an External and System Binary on the stack, as well as the original object. L,M,P SigmaDAT: Put a NON-MATRIX in 'GSDAT' (SigmaDAT), run STAT graphical apps, edit GSDAT. Causes a crash. L,M,P XRECV: XRECV will fail or cause memory lost if the amount of free RAM left is not about twice the size of the expected file. Fix: see FXREV on GD 9 by Joe Horn. L,M,P RREF does not transform the matrix into Row Reduced Echelon Form correctly if the first column of the matrix consists entirely of zeros. L,M,P,R portnum: { dir ... var } RCL/EVAL fails if portnum >= 2 L,M,P,R Rotation rate to angular frequency conversion bug See Appendix G for complete write-up. M Fixes a variety of other bugs, and includes a new display with better contrast. M,P,R Repeated executions of FFT or IFFT can cause memory loss The FFT and IFFT warmstart problem is caused by a CPU return stack overflow during interrupt handling. The problem can only occur when the argument to FFT or IFFT is an MxN matrix with both M > 1 and N > 1. The vector argument case is immune to this problem. FIX: To compute the FFT of a matrix without risking warmstart, expand the matrix into its row vectors using ->ROW, compute the FFT of each row vector, collect the results into a matrix using ROW->, expand the matrix into its column vectors using ->COL, compute the FFT of each column vector, and finally collect the results into a matrix using COL->. Except for less precision, this is the same result as would be obtained by applying FFT on the original matrix. Use the same procedure with FFT replaced by IFFT to compute the IFFT of a matrix. Here are program examples implementing the matrix FFT and matrix IFFT: MFFT << ->ROW FFTLP ROW-> ->COL FFTLP COL-> >> MIFFT << ->ROW IFFTLP ROW-> ->COL IFFTLP COL-> >> FFTLP << -> n << 1 n START n ROLL FFT NEXT n >> >> IFFTLP << -> n << 1 n START n ROLL IFFT NEXT n >> >> M,P BESTFIT: Occurs when a two dimensional array is stored in 'GSDAT' (SigmaDAT). Pressing the BESTFIT softkey multiple times quickly can cause a warmstart, or SigmaDAT to be erased. This occurs sometimes just by pressing BESTFIT repeatedly, regardless of /GSDAT content. This bug can also be triggered by pressing the BESTFIT softkey quickly after pressing any other key. Simply pressing MODL then BESTKEY quickly will trigger the bug. M,P,R Eqwr/Eqlib interaction bug: If you pick an equation from the EQ library, enter solver for that equation, enter an algebraic on the stack like 'X^2', and press the down arrow key to view algebraic in EquationWriter, the name of the equation will appear in the EquationWriter along with the unassociated algebraic. P PROOT: If you put a matrix of coefficients on the stack and press PROOT repeatedly, you will get a warmstart ****************************************************************** 2.5 What is new with the revision J ROM? (S/SX) The revision J ROM has a faster equation writer, as well as some bug fixes. Scrolling of graphics is also faster. One problem is that the revision J ROM changed some undocumented ROM entry points, which broke those programs that used them. If you have a Rev J ROM, you will not be able to run some old programs. ****************************************************************** 2.6 What happened to ROM revisions F, G, H, I, O, and Q? These versions either were never released to the public, or were skipped over. ****************************************************************** 2.7 Can I upgrade my HP 48S/SX? When the G/GX first came out, HP had a trade in program. This is no longer in operation. You can either try to sell you S/SX privately, or you can trade it in at EduCalc. They will give you $50 credit for a S, and $95 credit for an SX. You have up to 45 days after you purchase your G/GX from them to send in you S/SX. ****************************************************************** 2.8 Can I upgrade my buggy GX to the latest ROM revision? As far as I know, not any more. They had a program a in early '94, but it is over now. Contact the following for more info: Hewlett-Packard Corporation Calculator Support 1000 NE Circle Blvd Corvallis, OR 97330 ****************************************************************** 2.9 What's the latest ROM version? Revision R is the latest ROM version of the G/GX series. Revision J is the last ROM version of the S/SX series. ****************************************************************** 2.10 Why would I buy a S/SX rather than a G/GX? Here's the Top 12 reasons to buy a S/SX instead of a G/GX: (thanks to all who contributed) 1) May be slightly cheaper, having only 32k ram. 2) It isn't THAT outdated. 3) You can run neat emulators like x48 4) So what if it's a little slower? 5) You didn't need all those useless equations, graphics capabilities, and math and science functions anyways! 6) If you break it, you're out less money! 7) You like seeing how much you can fit into 32k ram. 8) You like slow file transfers, using Kermit instead of Xmodem. 9) You want to be able to use all those lists of SYSEVALs for the SX. 10) You like having only 3 ports available max. 33 is ridiculous! 11) Since it doesn't have a built in equations library it is less likely to be banned on tests. 12) Only wimps need GUI's, dialog boxes, and choose lists. ****************************************************************** III. Questions about the Operating System / Using the HP ****************************************************************** 3.1 I typed 'RULES' on my G/GX and got a crossword puzzle! What does it mean? (GX) Many commercial programs (like Windows) have similar hidden screens that list the program's design team. Since they are always so cute and well hidden, they are often referred to as Easter eggs. The RULES command on the G/GX is one such example. Try using the RULES command. The names you see are as follows: /---------------------- | M G | | P DIANA | | CHARLIE X B D | | BILL U N TED A | | O A L N ALCUIN | | B I JIM V | | RON S E | ----------------------/ ALCUIN was the HP-internal code name of the HP 48G during development, because Alcuin was Charlemagne's teacher, and Charlemagne, as you remember, was the code name of the 48SX. The other names in the Easter egg above belong to: BILL Wickes (list processing; Father of RPL) CHARLIE Patton (RPL operating system) TED Beers (parameterized outer loop; interactive stack; key handling system; high-level display management; input forms) DIANA Byrne (project manager; plotting; graphics) GABE Eisenstein (EquationWriter) BOB Worsley (I/O) PAUL McClellan (unit management; math) CLAIN Anderson (product manager; marketing) DENNIS York (manager) JIM Donnelly (EQ LIB; list processing; variable tic logic; developer support) MAX Jones (menu system; editing) DAVE Arnett (hardware) DAN Coffin (manuals) RON Brooks (marketing) ****************************************************************** 3.2 Why does my HP 48 occasionally freeze for a moment? The HP 48 must occasionally do garbage collection to free up unused memory, and it is this garbage collection that is causing the momentary freeze. Garbage collection is where the HP 48 scans through memory, looking for objects that are no longer used. Using less stack supposedly makes garbage collection go faster. To force a garbage collection, you can use the syseval #05F42h or the SysRPL command GARBAGE. (see q/a # 6.10 for syseval info) ****************************************************************** 3.3 What do I do if my HP 48 locks up? NOTE: If you have it, read the sections in the GX manual starting on page 5-16, Special Memory Operations, and Testing Calculator Operation on page A-9. NOTE: under most circumstances, your calculator should never lock up. Some earlier versions of the G/GX do this due to bugs. Of course, depending on the program being run, it may appear to lock up, but pressing the ON key usually interrupts whatever the calculator is doing. If it does lock up, this is usually caused by a buggy assembly-language or system RPL program, and, chances are, the memory contents of your HP 48 are gone (as in destroyed, terminated, wiped out, deleted, etc.). First, check the batteries to make sure that they are installed correctly. Next, try is pressing the ON key again and again very RAPIDLY. The operative word here is rapidly. It's possible to write a program that can only be interrupted during a very narrow window, and so you must press the OK key again and again very rapidly to interrupt the program. If the calculator doesn't respond within ten or so seconds, go on to the next step. Press ON-+ a couple of times, just in case the LCD display intensity was turned down. Here, ON-+ means: 1. Press and HOLD DOWN the ON key. 2. Press and release the + key, WHILE HOLDING DOWN THE ON KEY. 3. Release the ON key. If this doesn't work, the next thing to try is ON-C. This is a warm-start or system halt. Note that this will CLEAR the stack. Here, ON-C means: 1. Press and HOLD DOWN the ON key. 2. Press and release the C key, WHILE HOLDING DOWN THE ON KEY. 3. Release the ON key. If this does not work, it is possible that the HP is not responding because it is not accepting input from the keyboard. It is possible to execute a system halt without the keyboard using the hidden reset button. The reset button is hidden under one of the two upper rubber feet on the bottom of the calculator (it's under one of the two feet near the serial connector and I/R port). Note that the location of the reset button (under which foot) varies from calculator to calculator. If you gently pull out the rubber feet, you'll notice that there is a small hole under each foot. The reset button is located in the hole that has an R next to it. Once you've located the correct hole, you press the button by GENTLY sticking an unbent paper clip, into the hole with the R next to it. Hold for one second and remove. The next thing to try is a complete memory reset. Depending on the state of your calculator, this may or may not preserve the contents of memory. At the very least, even if the contents are preserved, the contents of the HOME directory will probably be moved into a new directory below HOME (HOME will be empty with the exception of this new directory); you'll have to manually move the items back into HOME. To perform a complete memory reset, press ON-A-F. This means: 1. Press and HOLD DOWN the ON key. 2. Press and HOLD DOWN THE A key, WHILE HOLDING DOWN THE ON KEY. 3. Press and HOLD DOWN THE F key, WHILE HOLDING DOWN THE ON AND A KEYS. 4. Release all of the keys. 5. At this point, the calculator will ask you if you want to recover memory. Answer yes to this question. Note that this can take a long time. If you answer no, all of memory will be cleared (the old contents will be lost). ****************************************************************** 3.4 My HP 48 seems to take longer to turn on and off. What's going on? The usual causes for this are RAM/ROM cards and libraries. When you turn the calculator on, it checks RAM (the more you have, the longer it takes), and checks to see if any libraries need initializing. Also, having a lot of alarms can supposedly also cause this. ***************************************************************** 3.5 What are all the different ON-KEY combinations and what do they do? [Note: this answer written by a member of the HP48 team in Corvallis] --begin quote-- (formatted for this document) [ON] In most cases, this will move you to, or toward, the stack environment. [ON]+A+F This is the manual Coldstart. It will break out of _almost_ any hung program, and offer you the dreaded option... Try to recover memory? Note that this is your next-to-last resort in a lock-up, so don't give your machine this three-fingered salute unless you really want to possibly clear memory. [ON]+B This is the Oops! key for [ON] codes. For many [ON] sequences, this cancels the operation, so long as you press the B before releasing the [ON] key. Try it sometime, if you must, just so you remember it. It can be a life-saver, in case of an accidental [ON]+A+F in process, or even accidentally hitting [ON] during a plotting routine. [ON]+C This will initiate a Warmstart. You'll lose the stack, but it will often get you out of a locked up program with memory intact. [ON]+D Enters interactive test mode. I won't even atempt to catalog the various tests and odd jobs available from here. Back up your own machine and play around. Exit this test mode with Warmstart, [ON]+C. [Note: See 3.6 for a list of the interactive tests] [ON]+E Starts a looping self-test mode. Kinda dull after the first five minutes, but it keeps a rather solid tempo. Exit with Warmstart, [ON]+C. [ON]+4 Cancels repeating alarms. [ON]+1 Screen dump utility. [ON]+[+], [ON]+[-] Adjusts display contrast. [ON]+[SPC] Initiates Coma Mode and clears Warm Start Log. In Coma mode, all the clocked activity is halted. The battery power drain as basically the few nanoamperes necessary to sustain your RAM contents. The Warm Start Log is a nearly bullet-proof area of memory which keeps track of the last four hazardous events. View it using the command, WSLOG. This log is one of the few things not cleared by a Coldstart. But it is cleared by [ON]+[SPC]. Enter Coma this way if you want to clear the Warm Start Log, if you are planning to study crystal healing in Tibet for a few years and want to keep your pirated version of Tetris alive, or you just have a low power fetish. Exit Coma mode with the [ON] key (tough to remember, huh?), and plan to find your stack cleared out. Two additional notes on this Coma stuff. First, I'm not gonna try to list the log codes in WSLOG. Sorry! Second, if your machine is on, and you drop the batteries out, you will _usually_ end up in a coma mode to preserve power. WSLOG will not be cleared. Instead, you will find a code 1 entry there. Some people are paranoid and want to be in Coma when they change batteries, just in case they have a sudden emergency call from the Prime Minister and don't get back to their battery change for a half hour. If you are one of these... shall I say, weenies? No, that would be unprofessional ...users, then I recommend you use the [ON]+[SPC] entry route, rather than the kamikaze method of dropping batteries with the machine running. Myself, I just turn the machine OFF, like the manual says. Now, a Coma story... sort of. During the G/GX development, I maintained a small number of units on which I changed ROM chips as incremental code releases came out. This was so folks like Bill Wickes and Jim Donnelly could have fully-real hardware to test, instead of just the EPROM handsets some of you may have seen. We always backed up anything of importance in the machine before we did this. But I got into the habit of using [ON]+[SPC] before I opened up the calculator. Better than half of the time, I could remove the batteries, open the case, desolder the old surface-mounted ROM chip, solder down a new chip, and reassemble the machine... with all of RAM intact! When I pressed [ON], I'd come right back up with no Try to Recover Memory? prompt. Pretty good, huh? The folks who put that mode into the machine certainly weren't in a coma. --(end quote)-- ****************************************************************** 3.6 What are the different interactive self-tests? Pressing ON-D enters the interactive self test function of the HP48. When you first press ON-D, you will see 3 vertical lines, one on each side of the screen and one in the middle. The tests are as follows: Press ON-C to exit. [A] Displays CPU speed [B] LCD test. Press Enter to cycle through the tests [C] Internal ROM test [D] Internal RAM test [E] Keyboard test. Starting with [A], press all the keys in order, left to right, top to bottom. If all goes well, it will say KBD1 OK [F] Partial Keyboard test [G] ESD test monitor. Battery status is shown by bars. [H] UART loop-back test [I] Wired UART echo [J] Shows whats plugged in. Press any key a few times [K] Test RAM cards in ports [L] Blanks display [M] Sends system time from IR port [N] Receives system time from IR port (have another HP send it) [O] IR loop-back test [P] IR UART echo [S] Shows test start time [T] Shows test fail time [U] [V] [W] [X] [Y] [Z] Looping test [ENTER] Initialize test tims [DEL] Test summary [<-] (backspace) Enters memory scanner (SX) ****************************************************************** 3.7 I can't account for some of the RAM in the HP 48! and When I clear my memory, I don't have 32K free! Why? The HP48 S/SX/G have 32K base memory, and the GX has 128K. However not all this memory is available to the user. The operating systems uses memory for system variables, flags, fonts, last stacks, last arguments, last menus, and such. It also can be any one of a number of things: 1). Enabling the use of LAST STACK, LAST ARG, LAST CMD, etc., uses up extra RAM, as the calculator has to keep track of the last stack, arguments, command, etc.. This is particularly important with LAST STACK if you have a large/complex stack, as the HP 48SX has to keep enough information around to recreate the stack after each operation. You can clear out these variables by pressing ON-C (but also note that this will clear out the stack, the graphics PICT, etc.). Here's a candidate for most obscure way to use up memory on the HP 48SX. When a program executes DOERR with a string argument, the string and hence the program too if the string is embedded in the program are referenced for the sake of the ERRM command. Thus if you purge the program, the memory used by the program is not reclaimed until the ERRM reference is updated to a new string. If the string is in a port, you will get the Object In Use error if you try to purge the library or backup object containing the string. A system halt prior to a PURGE will not help unless the object is in port 1 or port 2 (it will reclaim memory held by a successfully purged but still referenced object). For port 0 objects, the only way to break the reference is to execute DOERR again with a new string. 3.) Occasionally, I have had problems with libraries disappearing, but still taking up memory. I found that an ON-A-F reset will cause these libraries to re-appear. If you still cannot account for a large chunk of memory, I would suggest a hardware reset, after backing up your memory. ****************************************************************** 3.8 What are the best methods for dealing with libraries? To install a Library: 1. Download it into a variable of the calc. 2. Place the library on the stack. 3. Type the number of the port in which you want to store the library in. 0 is appropriate if you do not have any expansion cards. 4. Press STO to store the library in that port. 5. Turn the calculator off and then on, or press ON-C, to finish installation of the library. NOTE: sometimes you have to purge the variable containing the library before storing it in a port, if you are low on memory. As well, if you have FXRECV installed. Just type a port number, hit FXRECV and the library will automatically go into the specified port. All you have to do then in turn the calc off and then on to complete installation. To delete a Library: Say you have library 1234 in port 0 than you want to delete. 1. Goto directory that the library is attached. Usually HOME. 2. Enter :0: 1234 3. Press ENTER or type DUP 4. Type DETACH 5. Type PURGE ****************************************************************** 3.9 Why does (1/3)*3 equal 0.999999999999? This is due to the way numbers are typically represented by computers and calculators. There are infinitely many numbers, like `1/3' and `pi', that cannot be exactly represented internally (their decimal representations go on forever, and oftentimes cannot even be represented as a fraction, as in the example of `pi'). As a result, any calculations that use these numbers are bound to be off. ****************************************************************** 3.10 Why does my HP say that 0^0=1? Some claim that 0^0 is defined as 1, some claim it is indeterminate. The HP mathematicians decided to use the definition. Here is some more concrete info shamelessly lifted from the Sci.Math-FAQ: Q: What is 0^0 ? A: According to some Calculus textbooks, 0^0 is an indeterminate form. When evaluating a limit of the form 0^0, then you need to know that limits of that form are called indeterminate forms, and that you need to use a special technique such as L'Hopital's rule to evaluate them. Otherwise, 0^0=1 seems to be the most useful choice for 0^0. This convention allows us to extend definitions in different areas of mathematics that otherwise would require treating 0 as a special case. Notice that 0^0 is a discontinuity of the function x^y. Rotando & Korn show that if f and g are real functions that vanish at the origin and are _analytic_ at 0 (infinitely differentiable is not sufficient), then f(x)^g(x) approaches 1 as x approaches 0 from the right. Some textbooks leave the quantity 0^0 undefined, because the functions x^0 and 0^x have different limiting values when x decreases to 0. But this is a mistake. We must define x^0 = 1 for all x, if the binomial theorem is to be valid when x=0, y=0, and/or x=-y. The theorem is too important to be arbitrarily restricted! By contrast, the function 0^x is quite unimportant. Published by Addison-Wesley, 2nd printing Dec, 1988. H. E. Vaughan, The expression '0^0', Mathematics Teacher 63 (1970), pp.111-112. Louis M. Rotando & Henry Korn, The Indeterminate Form 0^0, Mathematics Magazine, Vol. 50, No. 1 (January 1977), pp. 41-42. L. J. Paige, A note on indeterminate forms, American Mathematical Monthly, 61 (1954), 189-190; reprinted in the Mathematical Association of America's 1969 volume, Selected Papers on Calculus, pp. 210-211. ****************************************************************** 3.11 If I add two temperatures like 34 deg.F and 11 deg.F, I get 504.67 deg.F. Why don't I get 45 deg.F? This occurs with the S/SX only. This behavior changed in the G/GX. With the G/GX, adding 34 deg.F and 11 deg.F will give 45 deg.F using TINC and TDELTA. However, the G/GX will only add or subtract temperatures if the units are the same; it is now an error if they are not. If the units attached to the number consists only of a temperature and nothing else, operations are done using an absolute temperature scale (relative to absolute zero). If the units consists of a temperature and something else, such as degrees/minute, the operation will not be done using an absolute temperature scale. It also does not make any physical sense to add two temperatures. You can't add a cup of water at 20 degrees C to a cup of water at 30 degrees C and end up with two cups of water at 50 degrees C. ****************************************************************** 3.12 How can I add my own units? What's the 1_? unit for? [Note: Some later editions of the G/GX series manuals have some similar information on this subjet on pages 10-14 and 25-15.] Another feature is the generic unit, 1_?. It seems to be intended as a generic unit, to allow you to make new units not based upon any of the built-in ones. You could use it to create a conversion utility for currencies or bits and bytes. [Before you create either, check the FTP sites to see what others have done in this regard.] Here's an example. Convert this using ASC-> and save it as 'sample'. 69A20FF78E000000005046F6E6574750ADA209C2A2C2A2070000F368B01B2130 E20005046F6A756E650ADA20339201000000000000210C2A20F000046F6E6574 768B01B2130640005086F6D6562750ADA20339200000000000000510C2A20F00 0046F6E65747C2A20B0000D696E686B0168B01B2130B5000303435453047A204 7A20C2A20F000046F6E65747ADA209C2A2C2A20F000046F6E6574768B01B2130 B213047A20C2A20F000046F6A756E6ADA209C2A2C2A20F000046F6A756E668B0 1B2130B213047A20C2A20F000086F6D65627ADA209C2A2C2A20F000086F6D656 2768B01B2130B2130B2130F0DA This is a sample directory with a custom menu. Enter the directory and press the CST key. Here you will see three units (truncated to fit the softkeys): donut, dozen, and homer. A dozen is defined as 12_donut, and a homer is a rate of 1.5_donut/min (not part of the SI system). These units may take SI prefixes described on page 10-5 of the User's Guide, so you may convert the value of 3_MW*h/kdonut into units of erg/mdozen using CONVERT, for example. The items in the CST menu have the usual abilities of unit menu objects as described on pages 10-2 and 10-3 of the User's Guide. These units can be used for math operations described on page 10-7 of the User's Guide, such as adding 2_donut to 1_dozen. Example: At your power plant, you have four control room operators who have a combined consumption rate of 2.28 homers. How many donuts will they use in 5 minutes and 17 seconds? Step 1: Enter the rate. 2.28 [homer] Step 2: Enter the time. right-shift UNITS [TIME] 5 [min] 17 [s] + Step 3: Multiply the time by the rate. x Step 4: Convert to dozens. CST left-shift [dozen] And the answer is a little over 1.5 dozen. [If you know more about 1_? and what it can do, please let the FAQ maintainer know!] ****************************************************************** 3.13 I want `pi' to be a numeric value, not a symbol. What's happening? You are using Numeric Constants Mode. To turn this mode on or off: SX: Type -2, then SF (w/o the quotes). This turns the numeric constants mode on. To turn it off, type -2 CF. (again, no quotes) FLAG submenu. Toggle the 02 flag, Contant -> symb, to turn on and off. ****************************************************************** 3.14 What are those little numbers near the top of my screen and how do I get rid of them? The little numbers are user flags. When you or a program sets any of the user flags 1 through 5, little numbers corresponding to the set flags are displayed at the top of the screen. The HP uses negative flags for setting various modes and functions, while positive flags were reserved for the use of the user. To set a user flag type the number, then SF. To clear a user flag type the number, then CF. ****************************************************************** 3.15 What tricks are there for manipulating matrices? SX: You can build up a matrix by rows using GS+ You can take a matrix apart by rows using GS- These two commands (GS is Sigma (Greek E)) add and subtract rows from the SigmaDAT Statistics matrix. GS+ takes a vector row and adds it to SigmaDAT, and GS- takes the bottom row away from SigmaDAT. GS+ is accessible from the STAT menu with its own softkey. GS- can be obtained by pressing left/shift /GS+, or by typing it in at the command line. GX: The GX has many matrix functions built in. See Appendix C. ****************************************************************** 3.16 Can I use my HP48 as a remote or phone dialer? There are numerous programs available for remote control. See Appendix I for recommendations. To make phone dialing tones, you need to produce two simultaneous tones. The speaker in the HP48 is not good enough to support the DTMF (dual tone multi frequency) tones that are used to dial. (They're a combination of two tones at the same time.) ****************************************************************** 3.17 I could speed up my HP-28S. How can I speed up my HP 48? You can't, really. Unlike the HP-28S, the clock speed in the HP 48SX is hardwired to 2 MHz, and to 4MHz in the 48GX. However, in some cases, you can speed up the HP 48 by turning off the display refresh, which supposedly takes up about 11% of the CPU time. Detlef Mueller submitted a program to comp.sources.hp48 that turns off the display refresh. Look in the various HP 48 archives for a copy. ****************************************************************** 3.18 What is the hidden directory and how do I access it? The hidden directory is a subdirectory of the HOME directory. It is created on startup, and it contains variables with your alarms and user key configurations. You can use the hidden directory to store whatever you want, however you CAN NOT ORDER the contents of this directory, as this causes memory loss. The name of the hidden directory is a null character, '' . The only way to get a null character is to use a syseval. You can use the following program to access the hidden directory: Comments: << HOME (changes to home dir) #15777h (syseval to get null character) SYSEVAL (returns '' to stack) EVAL >> (changes to hidden dir) To exit the hidden directory, use HOME or UPDIR. This will return you to the HOME directory. Also, by putting the null character as a part of your HOME custom directory, you can switch right into the directory by pressing the softkey. Note: The SysRPL command NULLID returns a null character to the stack; it is the sames as #15777h SYSEVAL. ****************************************************************** 3.19 How can I recall one object from a memory archive? [Joe Horn] There is a little-known method of recalling objects from within archives. Just make a list representing the PATH to the object, and tag the *list* with the port number. Then hit RCL or EVAL. For example, if your archive in port 1 is called BKUP, and it contains a directory called GAMES which contains a program called REVERSI, you can run the game directly (without having a separate copy of REVERSI stored anywhere!) by: :1: { BKUP GAMES REVERSI } EVAL Or, you can RCL instead of EVAL, and it'll be pushed onto the stack. NOTE WELL: This method only works in ports 0 and 1 in a GX. It works on any port in the SX. ANOTHER NOTE: This method works with directory objects stored as backup objects, as well as with the results of the ARCHIVE command, because they are both really the same thing. ****************************************************************** END PART 1 OF 4 I need to compute the dft (discrete fourier transform) on my hp48g. Is > there any built in function for this, or can I set up the symbolic > equation to perform my computations. > > X(k) = SUM(n=0, N-1, x(n)*exp(-j*2*pi*k/N)) > > , x(n) = {n0, n1, n2, ..., nN} > > I use my HP very rarely so I would appreciate any help. You can calculate the FFT using MTH NXT [FFT] - XXX denoting a 'hard' key [XXX] meaning a 'soft' key (the six ones in the menu line) The FFT command needs a 2^n * 2^m matrix as input and leaves you with a complex matrix. That's it. :-) Happy FFTing, have a nice weekend & last but not least: Hej d.8c! LSDhype > I already have HP48GX, but I'm having much trouble getting the ROM I > downloaded from my HP working > > Please send my your ROM in binary. > > > Thomas ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Aren't there segmentation issues with Saturn? I know zilch about it's > architecture but it seems like it can't provide enough flat memory for > would be a LOT of trimming (unless you could run some of it via virtual > memory made from port memory). choice, or perhaps 2.11BSD if you want to get a bit modern. I guess you can probably get the saturn segment stuff to look a bit like a separate I&D PDP11, and use some of the other ports as ram disks, probably about a reasonable amount of space for a small setup. --tim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >I had to solve the limit of this function... > > > >-1200*(2*s+5)/(s*(s^3+20*s^2+200*s+1000)) > > > >...when s=0. MapleVR4.01 says it is undefied. TI-89 says it is > >undefined. But Erable3.201 says it is infinite. > > > > Clearly, as s goes to 0 the denominator goes to 0 but the numerator > goes to 5. > The limit is therefore inifinite and Erable wins again! > Unfortunately not so. If you change the path to reach s=0, the limit must be invariant in order to be THE limit. Approaching from the left or the right involves a sign reversal here. Probably any limit could be reached by constructing a funny path in the complex plane... actually it is infinite let's taxe x=1/s then we have (-2400x^3-6000x^4)/(1+20x+200x^2+1000x^3) when x reaches infinite then the fractionindeed reaches infinite but be careful if s tends toward 0 and x>0 or x<0 that's why the ti and maple don't give the result , it is + or - infinite depending on the case Perez-Franco a .8ecrit : > I had to solve the limit of this function... > > -1200*(2*s+5)/(s*(s^3+20*s^2+200*s+1000)) > > ...when s=0. MapleVR4.01 says it is undefied. TI-89 says it is undefined. But > Erable3.201 says it is infinite. > > Who's wrong? Who's right? > > - Roberto Perez-Franco > http://pagina.de/Perez-Franco > icq# 14607303 > > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hmmm, not quite right! For x small, it looks like 5/x, which has no limit in 0... In fact, if you look more closely at the Erable result, you will read limit=inf, not '+inf' or '-inf'! It means that the function has a limit of +inf on one side, and -inf on the other side (mathematically speaking, it's undefined, but Erable gives you more information (Am I right, Bernard?)). If you try to find the limit of 1/x^2, Erable will answer +infinity. Gerald. > >>I had to solve the limit of this function... >> >>-1200*(2*s+5)/(s*(s^3+20*s^2+200*s+1000)) >> >>...when s=0. MapleVR4.01 says it is undefied. TI-89 says it is undefined. But >>Erable3.201 says it is infinite. >> >>Who's wrong? Who's right? >> >>- Roberto Perez-Franco >>http://pagina.de/Perez-Franco >>icq# 14607303 >> >>http://www.dejanews.com/ÊÊÊ[Capita lEHat]ÊÊ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your OwnÊÊÊ > >Clearly, as s goes to 0 the denominator goes to 0 but the numerator goes to 5. >The limit is therefore inifinite and Erable wins again! > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Hmmm, not quite right! > > For x small, it looks like 5/x, which has no limit in 0... > > In fact, if you look more closely at the Erable result, you will read > limit=inf, not '+inf' or '-inf'! > It means that the function has a limit of +inf on one side, and -inf on the > other side (mathematically speaking, it's undefined, but Erable gives you > more information (Am I right, Bernard?)). It just doesn't look right. If 'inf' means '+inf' OR '-inf' then it wouldn't be hard to make it the correct answer : 'undef'. > If you try to find the limit of 1/x^2, Erable will answer +infinity. This one looks right, but I still wonder if the answer was obtained by just substituting x=0 and evaluating. > > It just doesn't look right. If 'inf' means '+inf' OR '-inf' then it > wouldn't be hard to make it the correct answer : 'undef'. > (unsigned) inf means that absolute value of the function tends to +infinity (or the modulus if it's a complex function) as opposed to +infinity and -infinity. For example 1/x -> infinity at x=0 (since |1/x|->+infinity at 0) 1/x^2 -> +infinity at 0 and -1/x^2 -> -infinity at 0 , >Can you give me a advice ? >I need a wiever without bug's. >I use Jawa now, it is really good but sometimes it doesn't work >properly. The solution I love to use is the combination of EQStk and TED/VV. This combination works great without *bugging*. In the thread some EQStk Tips from the 10th of December 1998 I've explained how I use both programs together. You can find the posting Greetings from Cologne Peter E-Mail: karpfenteich@gmx.de _______________________________ Do you know the great Frequently Asked Questions? http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/ and the superb HP48 Software Archive? http://www.hpcalc.org to look for *old* HP48 postings see http://www.dejanews.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Can you give me an explanation of what a wiever is, with or without bugs? wiever == viewer -- Bruce Horrocks (...speaking for myself) EASAMS Ltd, Waters Edge, Riverside Way (Watchmoor Park) Camberley, Surrey GU15 3PD. > > not necessarily.. The TI-92 was a complete marketing failure. IMHO, it > > was pretty foolish for TI to introduce a calc that can't be used on any > > standardized tests considering that the majority of their market share is > > students. What were they thinking? The 89 doesn't seem to be picking up > > much steam either (although this is based on observation of what many HS > > students are using these days - which is still the 85 or 86). > > No one must told the guys in my calculus class. we have 60+ students, 4 > with the all might hp48 and the rest of the class is ti 89 and 92. They > are constantly selling out of them in our college bookstore. Last time I talked to TI, they were building another assembly factory for these babies due to demand. Can we see the hot-cake analogy here... >In math class today we had a problem where we taking the cross product of >two vectors that involved variables. My friends ti-89 did it nicely. >HP48 wouldn't even let me enter the vector. >[1,5,7] X [A,B,0 ] >just entering this into the calc makes it give the error invalid argument. >is there a way around this? >Jason Martinez >Nanuk@pacifier.com Funny. My HP48GX just did {1 5 7}{A B 0} CROSSP and gave {'-B*7' '7*A' 'B-5*A'} Please, join the Erable 3.x crowd. Randolph J. Herber, herber@dcdrjh.fnal.gov, +1 630 840 2966, CD/CDFTF PK-149F, Mail Stop 318, Fermilab, Kirk & Pine Rds., PO Box 500, Batavia, IL 60510-0500, USA. (Speaking for myself and not for US, US DOE, FNAL nor URA.) (Product, trade, or service marks herein belong to their respective owners.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I used mklib and it works quite well. It is at www.hpcalc.org > I have been trying to create my own libraries from programs of my > creation. In order to do so i have been using the program usrlib.exe > but i find some problems. > I dont know exactly how i must use it because when i try to get the > library i get the message cannot open directory. If someone uses > that program i was wondering if he could tell me what i am doing > wrong. > Is there any other program to make my own libraries? > 81 I have a problem using the romdump wizard. When I start it it hangs my calculator, and after 30 min it still does nothing. Any help?? Carles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I«ve made some programs and I was thinking about distribute them as shareware. To make one of them I took the idea (only the idea because in fact I didn«t see the code) from another program made by another person. What are the laws about copyright in sharewares? Could I have any troubles if I much. If i do a small error in the in Assembly code, i can to damage the ROM, or the internal periphericals. Please help me. Tanks a lot. Carlos A. Bez Birolo http://www.geocities.com/researchtriangle/system/4300 > If i do a small error in the in Assembly code, i can to damage the ROM, or > the internal periphericals. Please help me. Tanks a lot. Carlos A. Bez Birolo No, it is impossible to change the ROM, because it is *Read Only* memory. You can erase the contens of the RAM (Random Access Memory), but not damage it. You would just need to copy everything back. (That«s what backups are for, I guess). Is there any program to convert MIDI files into files playable by the hp48?? Did you find de ROM of a HP 48? If possible could you tell me where, i don't have a hp but i'd like know how to use one. Recently, someone asked me how one could multiply two lists in System RPL. My first try to discover the answer was to look at the source code of the `*' function and see the entry for the #55h dispatch case (which corresponds to two lists). Somewhat suprisingly, there is _no_ such entry (nor #51h, one list and a constant). So, I decided to single step the program, using JAZZ's SDB. The program did not run, instead it ended with a Invalid Argument Type message. I disassembled the source code, re-assembled it, got a beautiful collection of External's in the stack, and, evaluating them, the two lists were multiplied _exactly_ as the `*' function would have done. But, single stepping the re-assembled source, I _still_ got a Invalid Argument Type message. My question is: how the user commands support list processing? I looked at some other commands, and they too don't have lists in their dispatch command. If interested check out the following: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=68716769 If interested check out the following:

 http ://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=68716769 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- It was a warranty replacment item.. current bid is at $220. > > I have one for sale. This unit is brand new (just received from HP!!) > > How can you have a brand new 42S?? I thought HP discontinued them in > 1995... : > might prefer something more user friendly. Unfortunately, nobody has written A little bit of emacs lisp combined with kermit or xmodem can be much more user-friendly and personalizable than the usual monolithic, constantly-dialog-popping, mess that one sees with most programs written for the Windows environment. >> To my mind, PICT is the user's territory and a program should never, ever use >> PICT. Using the stack display is much more elegant... > why in the world would you think something as ludicrous as that...??? > what do you mean by 'User's Territory'...??? > you are just pure goofy. Go easy. Sam is just agreeing with HP's System RPL Manual: > Display Management & Graphics > > Most user RPL graphics commands are directed to the graphics > screen, which is the graphics object visible in the plot > environment. However, the text screen, the grob visible in > the standard stack environment, has the same properties as > the graph screen, and should be used by application programs > for graphics displays whenever possible, to leave the graph > screen as a user owned resource. The EquationWriter does > this, for example, as does the HP82211A HP Solve Equation > Library card. -- RPLMAN.DOC by HP, section 20 (page 94). Available as Goodies Disk #4 and elsewhere. The value of this practice is, of course, open to debate. But I felt that it should be pointed out that Sam is not alone in (nor goofy for) respecting user resources. I'm often working on some graphic that I leave in PICT. I expect it to be there when I come back to it. I have a copy if it's not but it's so much nicer when it is. PICT. They seem to all respect it. I think it's a good standard. I guess I'm goofy too. Barry >Sam makes the baby Jesus cry tears of blood... >To my mind, PICT is the user's territory and a program should never, ever use >PICT. Using the stack display is much more elegant... >----------------------:: o >why in the world would you think something as ludicrous as that...??? > >what are you using PICT for... > >at the very least you'd have to use it for graphing Equations, displaying >projective polyhedra, flatening hyperdimensional statistical arrays, drawing >mandalas, animations & such... > >if you want a data input structure, or data output display to look 'just right' >to express the greatest degree of elegance, than you naturally use the tool >that gives you the freedom to create that level of perfection...!!! > >of course...as with all programs, the 'environment that you begin with should >be the same environment that you leave-- when the program is finished, except >in various 'special' circumstances, and then--the program should maybe warn you >that it's going to overwrite PICT or seriously change various flags, or even >the stack... >it might ask...? >Would you like to save PICT? > y/n >or >Would you like to Archive the Current Environmental Structure? > y/n > >what do you mean by 'User's Territory'...??? >are you going over there to PICT and drawing pictures of snowmen and >hot-rods...??? > > > can somone please tell me how to use hp48gx to calculate factorial. I lost > my manual. thank you Step 1: place a number on the stack. Step 2: press [MTH] [NXT] [PROB] [!]. -or- press [alpha] [left-shift] [DEL] [ENTER]. -or- type FACT and press [ENTER]. this uses the CHARS screen... amazing to see and use the first time... g > > > > can somone please tell me how to use hp48gx to calculate factorial. I lost > > my manual. thank you > > Step 1: place a number on the stack. > > Step 2: press [MTH] [NXT] [PROB] [!]. > -or- press [alpha] [left-shift] [DEL] [ENTER]. > -or- type FACT and press [ENTER]. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [calculate factorial] >Step 1: place a number on the stack. > >Step 2: press [MTH] [NXT] [PROB] [!]. > -or- press [alpha] [left-shift] [DEL] [ENTER]. > -or- type FACT and press [ENTER]. > >Everybody else: How many other ways are there? 12413915592536072670862289047373375038521486354677760000000000 I guess there are 48! ways ;-) Do you know the great Frequently Asked Questions? http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/ and the superb HP48 Software Archive? http://www.hpcalc.org to look for *old* HP48 postings see http://www.dejanews.com - > I'm currently debating whether or not I should go ahead and purchase the > MetaKernal. What do you all think? Is it worth the $89.00 for the added > functionality? Is it buggy? What's the general opinion? > I don't know about the general opinion.. I like it, I got it when it wasn't on a ROM card yet meaning I'm entitled to upgrades - if ever the developers find time for it. Not EVERYTHING is to my liking, but it's certainly worth its while. - The new equation writer is outstanding. - The stack is FAST - and I can have my preferred 6 lines/1 header line - The editor is StringWriter-like - It's customizable in many ways - Very stable indeed.. haven't had ANY crashes yet Have a look at the MK homepage for more info and a demo version (which is actually quite old, the current version has many more features): http://www-miaif.lip6.fr/gerald/mk.html > - Very stable indeed.. haven't had ANY crashes yet Try entering these into the stack: [57 1] [57 1.] You can try other combos too and end up with some wacky stuff. This is very annoying as I use my calc to plot data from chemistry experiments and I always have to remember too omit the 57 sec value! >Is it possible to move the decimal point in answers. Example: turn 0.001 >into 1.0e-3. I know about fixed number format, but it's not flexible >enough. I know Casio calculators kan manipulate decimal points on the >fly. > John H. Meyers, posted one solution, Joe Horn modified it and TinyWanda added a nice solution to show the level 1 in SCI notation. That's what you're asking for, right? Because the answer is short I feel free to post this idea again: << RCLF OVER 4 SCI ->STR 1: @ 22 Characters altogether 1 22 4 PICK SIZE - SUB SWAP + 3 ->GROB LCD-> { #0d #46d } ROT REPL ->LCD 0 WAIT DROP STOF >> if you change the 4 SCI to something else, a you'll have to change the 22 in 22 4 PICK to something else too... Assigning this program to a user key (or including it in a CST menu) may be a good idea. (See chapter 30 of the manual) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ John has posted another tiny solution which displays level 1 at the top of the screen in the wanted format (and then switches back to STD format): << DUP 2 SCI ->STR STD 1 DISP 1 FREEZE >> change the 2 SCI to the stack representation you like. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I also use a little switch which I have assigned to a key. This program toggles between STD mode and SCI mode with 2. << IF -50 FS? THEN STD ELSE 2 SCI END >> (Flag -49 is cleared always here, if you'd prefer to toggle between two other modes you could modify the IF structure for the flag setting. If you have a problem doing this just post your question.) Change the 2 to the number you prefer to see. Well I would like to give it a try at getting it going. Hows $25 And I'll pay shipping > Anyone interested in a broken HP48G. > It is in perfect condition, aside from the fact that it doesn't work. :-) > I took it apart to do that do it yourself memory upgrade but it would > never get beyond the screen that says Try to recover memory? (after the > installation of the new chip). > > Price is up in the air-- make an offer. I'm searching for prfesional software,shareware,freeware for the > I have these items for sale. > > HP48GX > 512K Ram card > PC <-> HP link cable > > You can make an offer for all or seperately. > I think that the new calc should come with something like 2 MB of RAM and a > slot for Flash cards. > --------------------------:: o > > i was thinking afterwards...1 Meg of RAM is awfully low, even for a 'next > generation' calculator... > and even 2 Meg might not be enough... > it should be enough so that the 'average-plus' user would retain enough > functional RAM for their various applications for at least 6 months before they > begin to whine that it's not enough... > > i'm not sure exactly how much that would be... > > i know on this Old Performa...20Megs + a Ram Doubler barely cuts it...but the > new calc WOULD BE DESIGNED FOR intensive caluclations...so would that mean that > it SHOULD HAVE more or less RAM...??? > > and i really hate those flash cards...they're just too dang expensive for the > amount of memory that they hold... > I think that 2 MB of RAM would be sufficient for the new HP. After all it will be a calculator so it has to be cheaper than handled PC. Also HP can come with an important built-in storage medium equivalent to the user data archive of the TI89. So then RAM will be used more for computations than for storages. Considering memory extensions: I still think that Flash cards are better than RAM cards especially for the price. I don't find that Flash card are expensive in comparaison of HP48 RAM cards even hackers one. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >I am trying to decide whether to buy a TI-89 or HP48/GX. I haven't seen >anything on the HP web site about being able to update the software on >the HP48/GX. This is done on the TI-89 by flashing the flash RAM from a >normal computer. My question is can you update the software on the > >I'm planning on buying a TI-89 for college, but would consider a new HP. >Problem is, I can't find any info on one. Go to www.hpcalc.org. You'll find links to all sorts of HP calculator sites. You might also want to browse through some of the downloads to see what's available for the HP48. I think you'll be impressed. These both end next week. Found them in a local electronics store going out of business. These are brand new in the box HP 48G+ (Brand new! Minimum bid US$100) http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=91327177 HP 48GX (Brand new! Bidding started at US$140) http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=91340226 > Is there a way to take a file.. > and put it to a button or library file? It's no faster to use being in a library menu than in HOME, say. Joe Horn already mentioned assigning it to a user mode key; if you have many such functions which you want to access quickly, then you may need to ask Cynox to add some more keys for you :) Another possibility is creating your own custom menu, containing your favorite functions, which you can activate at any time by pressing the CST key; if you save such a menu in the HOME directory, it will be available from any other directory as well (unless some subdirectory has its own CST menu) The custom menu can actually contain programs, or it can contain just the names of other programs which you can also keep in HOME (possibly hidden as well, using a variable hider). Look also for a program called MENUADJ, which adjusts custom menus to protect any programs referred to by name (normally you could accidentally store into such variables, even in a custom menu). > We use that a lot (called lazyness in Calculus class).. > so it get annoying to have to work that in the VARS area. Does it get any faster to invoke when it's in a port menu area, rather than in HOME ? [referring here to typing speed, not to the few milliseconds saved in execution time] ----------------------------------------------------------- With best wishes from: John H Meyers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ==== I transfer music form CD's to Cassette tapes to take along to play in my car on trips that I take, and to play at work. Is there a program for the 48 with which I can enter the length of a particular selection on to the stack in minutes and seconds ie 4:52 and that will keep a running total of time in minutes and seconds so that I can get the most music on that side? p48:87680 This sounds to simple, but have you tried HMS+ ?? > > I transfer music form CD's to Cassette tapes to take > along to play in my car on trips that I take, and to play at work. Is > there a program for the 48 with which I can enter the length of a > particular selection on to the stack in minutes and seconds ie 4:52 > and that will keep a running total of time in minutes and seconds so > that I can get the most music on that side? > I transfer music form CD's to Cassette tapes to take > along to play in my car on trips that I take, and to play at work. Is > there a program for the 48 with which I can enter the length of a > particular selection on to the stack in minutes and seconds ie 4:52 > and that will keep a running total of time in minutes and seconds so > that I can get the most music on that side? Perhaps this will do what you want: GSE1 (Goal Seeking Engine #1) by Jeff Duncombe, available here: http://www.hpcalc.org/utils/misc/gse.zip and on Goodies Disk #3. Among the examples in its documentation is the problem of recording songs of various length onto a tape. It will do things like find which songs should be placed on side A and on side B to make both sides as close to the same length as possible, *or* to minimize the blank tape at the end of side A... or any kind of problem like that. Some other folks' solutions to this problem can be found by typing web page: http://users.kcyb.com/joehorn/HP48.htm I am not sure what it is exactly that you wish your program to accomplish, but HP48 has built in functions for basic HMS (Hour-Minute-Second) arithmetic. You find them in the [LeftShift][Time][NXT] menu. An HMS number looks like a regular decimal, but the meaning of digits in certain positions is different. Anything to the left of the deciml point is taken to be the number of hours, the first two digits to the right of the decimal point make up the number of minutes, and the second two is the number of seconds. For example: 4.432213 means 4 hours 43 minutes 22.13 seconds. [HMS+] adds two numbers in HMS format [HMS-] subtracts two HMS numbers [->HMS] converts from regular decimal to HMS format HMS will produce 4.3 or 4h30minutes> [HMS->] converts from HMS to regular base 10 With these you can probably write a simple User RPL program that would suit your needs. I was just wondering, is it possible to write a program for the 48 that lets you take a symbolic integral without specifying any bounds, you know, like the TI-89. If it can, I might go for a 48G+ rather than a TI-89. I've heard that the HP is better in all respects except this. the *easiest* way to do symbolic integration is to set your lower limit to 0 and your upper limit to the variable you are integrateing.... but then you get to a point whare u want to do some more complex math and you need to get erable an alg48...... out Joseph > I was just wondering, is it possible to write a program for the 48 that lets > you take a symbolic integral without specifying any bounds, you know, like > the TI-89. If it can, I might go for a 48G+ rather than a TI-89. I've heard > that the HP is better in all respects except this. >but then you get to a point whare u want to do some more complex math and you >need to get erable an alg48...... Erable will help; Alg48 does not do much for integration except add the rational function functionality. If I understood the documentation to Alg48 correctly, it adds very little functionality to the HP48's intrinsic integration capabilities. >I was just wondering, is it possible to write a program for the 48 that lets >you take a symbolic integral without specifying any bounds, you know, like >the TI-89. On a stock HP, you would have to set the limits of your integral from 0 to X, and integrate. Unfortunately, the HPs intrinsic symnbolic integration engine is based on technology from 13 years ago and is therefore very primitive (french speakers will have to pardon the pun) Actually,though, you wouldn't have to write a program because the algebra libraries already exist. Erable (the best CAS for the HP, and it's free) has an indefinite integration program that is partially based on the Risch algorithm. What this means is that some integrals can be solved by Erable that are not solved by the TI-89/92. I have experienced some problems integrating trigonometric functions in that the answer I received often is not in the form I would like to see it in. There are programs in Erable that will change forms and such, but I am still trying to learn them. > I've heard >that the HP is better in all respects except this. If you want the full breakdown of what I have noticed in comparing the HP48 with its programs to the TI-89 as it comes from the factory, here you go: The HP48 does unlimited precision arithmetic. What this means is that if I want to know what 350! is, I can know it. Every digit of it. I haven't seen the TI-89 do that. The HP48 handles imaginary numbers better. Just today, I tried to raise i to the i power on a TI-89 and got a domain error. On the HP, it returns the true value: i^i = e^(-pi/2) The TI-89 graph is faster than the HP. I have not tried many speedy graphing programs on the HP, though, so this may not be a real concern. The TI-89 does symbolic integration better. Sure, the Risch algorithm will catch some stuff that the TI-89 does not do, but these integrals are by and large not useful to a student. The TI-89 is faster. On my HP48G, with only 32k of ram, I could not take a taylor polynomial past the 8th degree of e^(x^2). It would calculate for about 10 minutes on the 9th degree and then poop out with a insufficient memory message. Note, however, that this is my HP48G. I have not tried this on my GX. Also, though, the TI-89 would find 20th degreee taylor approximations in about the time my HP48 took for a 5th degree. There is FAR more user support for the HP48 than for any TI-calculator. If you have a question and you post it, I guarrantee within a day or two you will have the answer you were looking for. People will write entire programs to help you out. The programs and libraries for the HP48 outshine anything I have ever seen for the TI-89, also. could take you days to go through it all, but at least you'll see the kind of support the HP48 has. Imagine how much support the next HP should have! I just purchased new 1 meg memory card It is a HP Card When I installed it according to the directions on 28-14 in the user manual I do not get any messages about Invalid Card Data. I do get a almost solid screen of black with a double line vertically down the center. My question is have I done some stupid newbie trick or do I have a bad card? I have read the manual and can not find any help on this question. Any suggestions on where to look for help? please make SURE that the card is in slot 2 on you hp48GX..... if it is in slot 1 then the lcd driver lines are being tied to the extra input/output, and bank switch for memory cards over 128K!!!!! > I just purchased new 1 meg memory card It is a HP Card > When I installed it according to the directions on 28-14 in the user > manual > I do not get any messages about Invalid Card Data. I do get a almost > solid screen > of black with a double line vertically down the center. > My question is have I done some stupid newbie trick or do I have a > bad card? > I have read the manual and can not find any help on this question. Any > suggestions on where to look for help? > > My question is have I done some stupid newbie trick or do I have a >bad card? >I have read the manual and can not find any help on this question. Any >suggestions on where to look for help? > > >TIA 1st question: Did you install this card into slot 2? Slot 1 supports only up to 128k. A completely frivolous question. Anyone know if a calculator (as opposed to a computer), or more especially an HP calculator, has featured in a film or two? And if so, did it play a crucial role? How about the Manhattan Project a movie about a kid who makes an atomic device for a science fair. A hand calculator is featured in a scene calculating a sequence in order figure out how to disarm the bomb (just before it's to blow - lots of suspense!). How's calligraphy, et al? Rob Lilley >A completely frivolous question. Anyone know if a calculator (as opposed to >a computer), or more especially an HP calculator, has featured in a film or >two? And if so, did it play a crucial role? >A completely frivolous question. Anyone know if a calculator (as opposed to >a computer), or more especially an HP calculator, has featured in a film or >two? And if so, did it play a crucial role? Short Circuit 2 from 1988 with Number Five shows extensive use of a calculator. (Besides, do you know the meaning of your surname ? :-) ) I know it's detecting *something* because it runs for as long as the HP41 is printing to the IR module. But it never returns any information and returns a result indicating that all bytes detected were error free. > SystemRPL equivalents of the UserRPL loop structures... > START-STEP / FOR-STEP > UserRPL SystemRPL > ... ... > > > xSTART DO > > [%>#] > xSTEP +LOOP > ... ... How about << 1.1 10.4 FOR n 5 -> k << 'n+k' EVAL >> .2 STEP >> ? In many cases the SysRPL DO ... LOOP can accomplish what a user may do with such things as FOR ... STEP, but SysRPL DO loops are not quite as general as such user loops as FOR ... NEXT, in these instances: o Sys loops can use only positive integers < 2^20, whereas user loops can employ any real values (and can even count backwards). o Storage locations for system DO loops are unnamed, and may not be included in such things as algebraic formulas, for example. o The user loop can continue to have any number of lower-level nested loops, yet can still reference all variables named in higher loops, whereas system DO loops can directly access the counters of only the current and one previous level. How do user loops manage to do what system DO loops can not? The answer is that the UserRPL compiler uses lambda environments (local variables) for all user loops, and never generates a simpler fixed system DO loop environment, even though in those cases where a system DO loop could suffice, it might well be more efficient. > Just enough ATM [AI?] to prove that it can work, > but not quite enough to actually be overly useful :-) A very good try, though! In an earlier post, you asserted: UserRPL is a strict subset of SysRPL, and in another post, someone re-stated the search for the Holy Grail of the HP48: Universal translators for UserRPL ==> SysRPL ==> ML Now, even though HP sometimes slips into such loose talk as this, there is actually a very great distinction between UserRPL and SysRPL; the similarities are based on considering how RPL is *executed*, once it has been compiled, vs. the vastly different original *source*languages* and *compilers* that each approach uses, each based upon a very different view of the system and tasks to be performed. As far as execution is concerned, all RPL is executed identically (by ML code in ROM, pointed to by each object, rather than by code within the object), so one can say that since the UserRPL compiler (in the HP48 ROM, which compiles all the text you type into the command line) only invokes a limited set of all ROM procedures, whereas you can invoke all existing ROM procedures via SysRPL, then what you can *execute* in UserRPL is indeed a subset of what you can *execute* in SysRPL. In this sense, there is no conversion at all between one kind of RPL and another, for it is all the same. You can *substitute* some ROM functions for others that were invoked from a user program, but every time you make a substitution, you increase the number of situations in which the converted program might act differently than the original, or might fail entirely, as illustrated above, because every substitution changes something, or doesn't handle something which might in some cases occur, so you need in general to have more knowledge of the whole problem and environment than can be obtained by looking at only one command at a time. Even some of the most basic assumptions you may make may be violated some of the time in some user programs, so the more liberties you may take in any automatic translator, the less certain will be the success rate of the outcome. When we look at the *source*languages*, however, we see that UserRPL isn't anything like a subset of SysRPL; SysRPL *looks* rather dramatically different to begin with, has considerably different syntax (if any), and in fact has no means at all to code some of the things that we may be used to in UserRPL, such as formulas that look like formulas, arrays, and directories ('formulas' can only be represented as their RPL equivalents, arrays as hex strings, and directories, well... ?); in return, you get access to functions which can enter or exit programs at any old place, and violate many other user restrictions with abandon (plus some risk), and you suddenly get some brand new object types and a whole new stack to have to deal with (e.g. long reals, bints, and the return stack). Thus, when you read RPLMAN.DOC (the HP introduction to SysRPL), or even any other book or guide, you probably find about as much resemblance to the programming language of the User's Guide and AUR as the landscape of the Moon bears to where you live. The whole environment structured by UserRPL is problem-oriented, concealing much of the internals, even the fact of how programs are structured, whereas SysRPL is the raw world of the ROM jungle -- more powerful, but more dangerous, and it's entirely up to you to get through it without your memory being eaten alive; in addition, the functions invoked by compiled UserRPL perform for you certain things you take for granted, such as the unrestricted scope of branching words, the checking of arguments, *and* even the ability to cancel your program with the CANCEL key. Because of the great differences in the fundamentally presumed environment between the two languages (and who would originally use them), one might well take completely different approaches to solving the same problem, depending on whether one would employ UserRPL or SysRPL, just as the best route between two points might take completely different courses when traversed by means of an airplane vs. a truck, a ship, a railroad car, or skis, and the most dramatic improvements between UserRPL and SysRPL usually come about when the basic approach is restructured, rather than when one plods along, just replacing equivalent commands. This is why I originally said that the undertaking resembles in some way the problem of translating spoken languages. At first, the idea of just translating each word through a dictionary sounds like a very simple solution; then as more and more multiply-defined words, peculiar linguistic structures, and idioms creep in, more and more of the sense of the original gets distorted in any limited attempts at translation. It should of course eventually be possible to create a translator of any desired level of skill, and even of great ingenuity and creativity, just as it is possible to construct a chess-playing program which can defeat a world champion, but at a corresponding cost in complexity and effort, so the issue may be: how much work do you want to invest up-front, vs. how easy it may be to just use your own brain and write your own SysRPL when you find a candidate user program worth re-casting into the mindset of SysRPL. Some things that user commands do which many internal system commands don't, from which most of your gain in command-for-command replacement derives, and also from which many of the benefits of UserRPL derive, producing the inevitable trade-off: o Save the command name (for automatic error messages) o Save the command arguments (for errors and LASTARG command) o Save the stack depth (for automatic stack cleanup after errors) o Check the argument types, and in many cases choose different internal system functions, according to argument types, positively preventing crashes by checking on every command, rather than just checking original arguments. o Abort if the CANCEL key has been pressed ( < 1_ms per test ); generally tested only by program structure commands. Sometimes there is a savings worth the investment, and sometimes it may not be worth the time spent recovering from the first crash; it's a matter of your own judgment for your own programs and purposes. BTW, it may be that someone new to the HP48 asks for a translator for UserRPL ==> SysRPL ==> ML, based upon the assumption that UserRPL text gets re-interpreted every time it is executed, rather than the fact that it gets *compiled* just once, at the time it is first typed in, just as SysRPL gets compiled once into the same kind of universal RPL object, and then both sorts of RPL are executed in exactly the same manner thereafter; this means that the potential execution time savings are much less than might be expected, if the translation is just one-for-one, replacing protected user commands by what they internally execute. As to SysRPL ==> ML, everything that is executed in the HP48 is always ML, but much of that ML is in ROM; if what you need to do is not available at all, or is not efficiently performed by the existing ML in ROM, or if it consists of many basic operations which can be done in CPU registers, without using memory, then there may be a lot to gain by writing your own new code, but if there already exist ROM functions that efficiently do exactly what you need, then you can write a small program to run a huge amount of pre-written ROM code, and save yourself the trouble (e.g. compare the almost-identical VARS and VARS2 commands in the Hack library, one using a lot of ML instead of shorter SysRPL). If you disassemble some HP48 ROM functions, you may even see that HP may well invoke some *user* functions in its own SysRPL coding, if it turns out that this can satisfactorily perform the desired function without the need for any longer a program. This may have been motivated in part by the need to fit all the functions into a finite-sized ROM, and also to get the product to market in a finite time, but some of these same considerations may apply even to your own everyday programming. Well, with some sort of new product being always thought to be around the corner, at least for the past several years, and with the vast pile of software for everything in creation already collected by Eric Rechlin into one monster site; investments in large programming projects may happen to trail off a bit, but so long as ungreased wheels need re-invention, there may yet be more around the corner. However, it would be nicer if some new platform came along, for then we could all start the old game all over again :) ----------------------------------------------------------- With best wishes from: John H Meyers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ==== > > How about << 1.1 10.4 FOR n 5 -> k << 'n+k' EVAL >> .2 STEP >> ? That program is so inherently bad in so many ways, but all is not lost. I'll start by rewriting this another way so that we have interger loop and and also get rid of the real and allow this to be expressed as a simple FOR-NEXT with integer increment. This gives us: << 0 46 FOR n '6.1+(n*.2)' EVAL NEXT >> where o The loop constants were calculated by noting that ( - ) / can be mapped onto the range 1 to 47 (or in this case 0 to 46). This also makes it necessary to add the term (n*) to the expression being calculated, which gives us at this point: 1.1+k+(n*.2). o The construct ... 5 -> k << ... >> ... is not really required here. The value of k is not used subsequent to it being set to 5 so we can consider it to be a constant and I'll go one further and say that we don't even need it to be a named variable at all and remove it along with the entire local structure surrounding it. So we end up with expression: 1.1+5+(n*.2) which we then combine the two constants to get the program as given above. You could go on and rewrite the program as: << 0 46 FOR n n .2 * 6.1 + NEXT >> and remove the need for the algebraic and EVAL altogether. Now, my point is simply that your version may not be expressed as a SystemRPL DO-LOOP, but either of my two versions can (and IMNSHO can be quite easily). > In many cases the SysRPL DO ... LOOP can accomplish what a user may do > with such things as FOR ... STEP, but SysRPL DO loops are not quite > as general as such user loops as FOR ... NEXT, in these instances: > > o Sys loops can use only positive integers < 2^20, > whereas user loops can employ any real values > (and can even count backwards). Most (all?) loops that use real values can be rewritten to use integer loop counters and a modified subsequent expression. The same style of rewriting can deal with negative step values. > o Storage locations for system DO loops are unnamed, and may not > be included in such things as algebraic formulas, for example. But nothing prevents me from rewrinting the the algebraic as I did above (of course, this will only work if the algebraic expression is simple _enough_. If it isn't then again, nothing prevents me from returning the UserRPL program and algebraic as is.) > o The user loop can continue to have any number of lower-level > nested loops, yet can still reference all variables named in > higher loops, whereas system DO loops can directly access the > counters of only the current and one previous level. > > How do user loops manage to do what system DO loops can not? > The answer is that the UserRPL compiler uses lambda environments > (local variables) for all user loops, and never generates a simpler > fixed system DO loop environment, even though in those cases where > a system DO loop could suffice, it might well be more efficient. > > > Just enough ATM [AI?] to prove that it can work, > > but not quite enough to actually be overly useful :-) > > A very good try, though! No try. Do or do not! -- Yoda, Starwars: Return of the Jedi(?) (or words to that effect.) > In an earlier post, you asserted: > UserRPL is a strict subset of SysRPL, Okay, you got me on that one ;-) I will assert, however, that the union of UserRPL and SystemRPL is only one language that encompasses both and not two seperate languages. > and in another post, someone re-stated the search > for the Holy Grail of the HP48: Universal translators > for UserRPL ==> SysRPL ==> ML IMHO all of these are completely off track. The major difficulty with the process of translating any of these is simply that the result has to run on the HP 48 to be useful. (I.e. Turning UserRPL or SystemRPL into ML can be accomplished simply by unthreading the ROM code and writing out the ML that is encountered. This resulting code, though, is not at all pleasant to work with, and for the most part becomes unfeasibly large to be run on the HP 48 itself without removing large chunks of it and calling it via pointers again, and thereby effectively turing it back into SystemRPL.) [Discussion on UserRPL/SystemRPL elided.] > Well, with some sort of new product being always thought to be > around the corner, at least for the past several years, and with > the vast pile of software for everything in creation already > collected by Eric Rechlin into one monster site; investments > in large programming projects may happen to trail off a bit, > but so long as ungreased wheels need re-invention, > there may yet be more around the corner. At the outset I think that I said that I was more interested in the theoretical aspects of this project than in anything else, or at least If I haven't expressly stated that it is indeed my view of this. With out a doubt I can honestly say that there is nothing easy about this project, but whether or not new hardware comes out this project will be completed eventually. Whether it will still be useful when it is is not for me to say (or even for that matter whether it will ever be anything more than a curiousity). > However, it would be nicer if some new platform came along, > for then we could all start the old game all over again :) Not me, I'm afraid. My finances won't extend to the cost of any new calculator considering that just because HP decides to bring out a new device in no way negates the fact that the 48 can still do the job. Not to mention that half the fun of the 48 is that there are so many restrictions on memory and speed, etc. -- If A equals success, then the formula is A = X + Y + Z. X is work. Y is play. Z is keep your mouth shut. -- Albert Einstein FastCounter by bcentral t thp 49g beta rom (version 1.19-5 zip file*) hp 49g beta rom for hp 49 emulator (version 1.19-5 zip file*) extable library (needed to use masd)MASD DocumentationÊ100 Kb PDF,Ê81 Kb ZIP If you have a problem with your HP Calculator product, please refer to the Technical Support section of the Assistance web page. If you need additional assistance, please consult our list of worldwide Support Providers to identify the telephone support team nearest you. How to upgrade your HP49 1.tSend the following program to extract the content of the 64KB Flash Bank. 64KB Extractor 2.tRun the program. It will put on the stack a list containing either Library or Backup Object. 3.tSave the list as-is in the HOME directory 4.tFollow the next instructions to upgrade your calculator 1. On the PC: 1.tUnzip the ROM update file to a folder on your hard drive, noting the location. Make sure it has a .flash extension; some zip decompressors do not support long file names, requiring you to rename the file. 2.tConnect the HP 49G to the PC, and start the PC Connectivity Kit. 3.tIn the PC Connectivity Kit, navigate to the PC directory that holds the operating system file. 4.tDouble-click the .flash operating system file to display the Download program dialog box. 2. On the 49G: 1.tEnter diagnostic mode by turning the calculator on, holding [ON], and pressing [F4]. 2.tWhile the Tests screen is showing, use your thumb to hold down [+] and [ENTER]. 3.tWhile holding down [+] and [ENTER], press and release [ON] to show the No System menu, and then release [+] and [ENTER]. 4.tPress [4] to select terminal mode. A blank screen appears. To abort at this time, hold down [ON], press [F3], and then release both keys. 3. On the PC: On the Flash upgrade dialog box: 1.tUse the Config Comms button to configure the PC serial port that the calculator is connected to. 2.tClick the Talk to calc button to send the download program to the HP 49G. 4. On the 49G: The download program sent from the PC is now running. 1.tIf you're running a ROM 1.19-5 or newer jump to 5 2.tPress [4] to select Erase Bank. The screen will now display 0 User Bank. If not, use the up and down arrow key until Bank 0 appear. 3.tPress [ENTER] to format the 64KB Bank. 4.tThe HP49 returns to the Download menu 5.tPress [1] to select Download System. The 49G communicates with the PC Connectivity Kit and commences the upgrade. 6.tWhen the process finishes, the 49G will display The system may not be installed. Please go to 'Download Pack' menu. Press any key. You now see the main Download menu. 7.tPress [2] for 'Download pack'. System present press Q twice to reboot. The operating system is now upgraded. 8.tIf you were already running ROM 1.19-5 or newer you're done 9.tPut the list that you've extracted from the 64KB Flash Bank on the RPL stack 10.tExtract the content by running the command LIST-> 11.tFor each object from the list, do: 2 STO in order to re-save them in the Flash User Memory If it fails: If it fails, your calculator will no longer operate properly until you re-flash the ROM. To do this, perform the following steps and then go back to 3. On the PC above: 1.tInsert a paper clip into the reset hole in the back of the 49G 2.tWhile the screen is blank, use your thumb to hold down [+] and [ENTER]. 3.tWhile holding down [+] and [ENTER], press and release [ON] to show the No System menu, and then release [+] and [ENTER]. 4.tPress [4] to select terminal mode. A blank screen appears. To abort at this time, hold down [ON], press [F3], and then release both keys. What's New from Release 1.19-4: *tAlgebraic Mode: Added autoquote process on some functions. For a complete list look here. Warning, arguments within lists will not be quoted. *tRPL/Algebraic Compiler. New keyword to create greyscale graphic object. Syntax: GREY xx yy data. At this stage, greyscale objects are not yet supported by the graphical commands. *tInputForm engine: In algebraic mode, algebraic expression field will automatically be quoted. *tFiler: SORT option. Sort the file list by name, type or size *tFiler: PageUp/PageDown are now working *tMASD: Display statistics while compiling *tSystem: New CALC menu organisation (direct access to DERVX and INTVX) *tSystem: Various speed improvements *tBugs fixed (the following bugs have been fixed): *tSystem: Filling a user bank in port 2 could disable the Flash access *tSystem: Recalling a non-existent object in port 2 using a path could reset the calculator *tAlgebraic Compiler: incorrect compilation of | (where) when using expression *tTable View: Some twisted Parametric equations could reboot the calculator *tCAS: all known problems *tMASD: Problem when using name longer than 8 characters What's New from Release 1.19-3: *tCAS: New EXP2HYP command (see online help for more information) *tCAS: New LOCAL command. Create (and initialize) local variables from a list. To be used to avoid the need of nested -> << >> in algebraic mode *tCAS: New UNBIND command. Delete local variables *tSystem: New clock display manager. Will not create temporary objects anymore (reducing the frequency of Garbage Collector) *tSystem: New expression optimizer. It is now possible to plot or solve functions that include non-algebraic expressions (as the HP48) *tMASD: Added LIBDAT support, $ support, GOSBVL/GOVLNG =label support, Fixed a problem that could prevent the HP49 to start after a very low memory condition (exists in all previous HP calculator) *tBugs fixed (the following bugs have been fixed): *tSystem: Storing 128KB+1 bytes could corrupt the Flash structure *tSystem: Fixed a clock problem that could prevent the HP49 to start after a very low memory condition (exists in all previous HP calculator) *tCAS: various bugs fixed *tMASD: Incorrect error messages when a SKIP structure was not correctly closed What's New from Release 1.19-1: *tReal numbers in unit objects are displayed without the . (dot) if the value is below 1000. Example: 2_m^2 is not displayed as 2._m^2. anymore, and do not follow display format (FIX, SCI etc.) *tNew commands GBASIS and GREDUCE (see inline-help for more details) *tBugs fixed (the following bugs have been fixed): *tSystem: Crash when pressing Shift F6 from plotter *tSystem: DOLIST can hang the calculator when passing bad argument types *tSystem: New 1.19 Menu are not accessible using the MENU and TMENU commands *tCAS: CAS menu REWRITE is not linked to the MAIN menu *tCAS: Mistakes in inline help *tCAS: Inline help added for commands GBASIS, GREDUCE, POTENTIAL and VPOTENTIAL *tCAS: When called from an empty stack CASCMD doesn't return a result *t48GX Finance Solver: Pressing F6 on some fields could corrupt the stack What's New from Release 1.19-1: *tReal numbers in unit objects are displayed without the . (dot) if the value is below 1000. Example: 2_m^2 is not displayed as 2._m^2. anymore, and do not follow display format (FIX, SCI etc.) *tNew commands GBASIS and GREDUCE (see inline-help for more details) *tBugs fixed (the following bugs have been fixed): *tSystem: Crash when pressing Shift F6 from plotter *tSystem: DOLIST can hang the calculator when passing bad argument types *tSystem: New 1.19 Menu are not accessible using the MENU and TMENU commands *tCAS: CAS menu REWRITE is not linked to the MAIN menu *tCAS: Mistakes in inline help *tCAS: Inline help added for commands GBASIS, GREDUCE, POTENTIAL and VPOTENTIAL *tCAS: When called from an empty stack CASCMD doesn't return a result *t48GX Finance Solver: Pressing F6 on some fields could corrupt the stack What's New from Release 1.18: *tNew CAS (Computer Algebra System) including: *ton-line help. Inside the EQW, press [HELP]. If you have a symbolic highlighted (e.g. COLLECT(X+1)) you will get directly help on COLLECT, otherwise or if the top operator is not a CAS command you will have a choosebox with all the CAS commands. Also the Catalog and each menu give access to the CAS help if available. *tNew arithmetic functions like cyclotomic polynomials and Sturm sequences (e.g. STURMAB will return the number of real zeros in an interval) *tAssumption on variables like ASSUME(X>1), this properties will be used to simplify ABS value or to find some limits *tSIMPLIFY command which is essentially TEXPAND followed by EXPAND *tNew linear algebra commands: KER, IMAGE of a linear application, BASIS of a vector space, IBASIS intersection basis of two vector spaces, ISOM to find the elements of a 2-d or 3-d linear isometry. *tMain changes in existing functions: *tStep by step implemented for: integration, GCD and IEGCD for integers, PARTFRAC *tEXPAND does now EXP2POW (convert EXP[c*LN] to power) *tTAN2SC2 does no more take care of prefer sin/cos flag, use the new command TAN2CS2 *tSOLVE / SOLVEVX can solve 1 rational inequality in 1 var *tSOLVE / LINSOLVE accept systems written as a symbolic: use AND between equations *tTABVAR accepts now some non rational functions: e.g. EXP(X)-X *tImprovements or optimizations in SOLVE, integration, LAP/ILAP, SERIES *tZoom capabilities in 3D Plotter using the [+] and [-] keys What's New from Release 1.16: *tSwitch between complex to real mode from the keyboard (press and hold down LeftShift and then [TOOL]). *tDecompiler now fully compatible with HP48 (DECOMP$). *tHP48 Input Forms: Global names are not evaluated anymore. What's New from Release 1.10: *tSIZE returns the number of digits for an integer instead of 1. *tSymbolic series: SUM(I=1,N,I) will return (N^2+N)/2. Implementation of gamma, digammas etc.. functions *tNew Y= window: You can now create your own user functions and combine functions together like: Y2(X)=Y1(SIN(X)). *tSwitch between approx to exact mode from the keyboard (press and hold down RightShift and then ENTER) *tNew power algorithm: 3^1000 takes less than 2s now. *tUserRPL optimization: 1 1000 FOR I NEXT is now much faster Binary functions related to integers are now faster (+,-,*,/,^,NEG, INV, SQ) *tSTARTED and EXITED can customize the command line editor *tMultiple Equation Solver now contained in ROM. *tsysRPLÊstack is now implemented: set the flag -85 to use it. *tComplex Matrices are now displayed in textbook mode. *tNew XModem Server. It's now possible to transfer the ROM of an HP49G to another one using the ROMUPLOAD command. You can also control another HP49G using the xmodem protocol : *tXSERV: Put the calculator in XModem server mode No Inputs/outputs The Xmodem server recognize the following commands: *tP: Put a file in the calculator *tG: Get a file from the calculator *tE: Execute the command line *tM: Get the calculator memory *tL: List the files in the current directory *tXGET: Get a file from a XModem server Input: the name of the file to get (a global or local name) *tXPUT: Put a file in a XModem server Input: The name of the file to send (a global or local name) *tROMUPLOAD: Put the calculator in ROM upload mode. When in ROMUPLOAD mode, the calculator act like the FDP program, allowing another calculator to upgrade its ROM. (The baudrate must be 9600bps for a ROM upgrade) *tMASD is in the ROM. Attach the library 256 to use it. You will also need the extable library in order to use the mnemonic tables. *When unzipping make sure the ROMÊfile has a .flash extension. Depending on file associations this may be truncated causing it to no longer work with the flash download program (FDP). > the HP49 ROM updates are almost 2 years old. 1.19-6 is about 11 months old. Of course, HP appears to have dissolved its organization for producing any more such products, but the products still exist, and will keep working anyway, with or without HP's further interest. Former HP employees may or may not produce future firmware enhancements (legally blocked at present), but contributors who participate in this newsgroup do not seem to stop producing more software themselves, also with or without HP's further interest, and they also offer far more ongoing support to users than HP ever did. > He asked aren't there any newer ones? I answered no, and briefly > explained what I knew about HP's calculator division problems. > He then said this machine is dead in its tracks, huh? > He was then visibly depressed, as if his great new gift > was now a tarnished cast-off. > There was little I could say, except that I found the HP49 > of great value in my engineering studies, > and it would surely help him in high school. > As I drove home, it made me wonder the same thing: > is the HP49 truly dead in its tracks, are HP calcs all dinosaurs, > relics of a bygone era? The HP48GX hasn't been updated since 1993, the HP12C (still selling widely) not since before anyone ever heard of the internet, and it seems that very few of the lesser, ordinary calculators of all manufacturers have changed a bit in far longer than that, yet they still seem to be sold to people who find them very useful. Paper, pencils and ink, the most archaic of scholarly tools, are still more helpful (and cheaper) than any calculator in many cases, and the most powerful of all analytical tools apparently hasn't undergone hardware or firmware changes in all of recorded human history, which makes me wonder how your girlfriend's young brother can stand to still be using only his own utterly outmoded brain. With best wishes from http://www.mum.edu . ==== > > > He asked aren't there any newer ones? I answered no, and briefly > > explained what I knew about HP's calculator division problems. > > He then said this machine is dead in its tracks, huh? > > He was then visibly depressed, as if his great new gift > > was now a tarnished cast-off. > > There was little I could say, except that I found the HP49 > > of great value in my engineering studies, > > and it would surely help him in high school. > > As I drove home, it made me wonder the same thing: > > is the HP49 truly dead in its tracks, are HP calcs all dinosaurs, > > relics of a bygone era? > > The HP48GX hasn't been updated since 1993, the HP12C (still > selling widely) not since before anyone ever heard of the internet, > and it seems that very few of the lesser, ordinary calculators > of all manufacturers have changed a bit in far longer than that, > yet they still seem to be sold to people who find them very useful. > > Paper, pencils and ink, the most archaic of scholarly tools, > are still more helpful (and cheaper) than any calculator in many cases, > and the most powerful of all analytical tools apparently hasn't > undergone hardware or firmware changes in all of recorded > human history, which makes me wonder how your girlfriend's young > brother can stand to still be using only his own utterly outmoded brain. > > > With best wishes from http://www.mum.edu > > If someone had given me a new 49g, even if the last rom update was 11 months ago, disappointment wouldnt have been my reaction. Inversly, if the young lad is so disappointed, slap him with an old ti 81 and tell him to have fun with it. There is wisdom in the passage about not casting your pearls before swine. ==== John H Meyers schrieb im Newsbeitrag > > > the HP49 ROM updates are almost 2 years old. > > 1.19-6 is about 11 months old. > >[..] > The HP48GX hasn't been updated since 1993, > ...since there was no need;-) It was nearly perfect. Raymond ==== Raymond Hellstern escribi.97 en el mensaje > > > The HP48GX hasn't been updated since 1993, > > > ...since there was no need;-) > > It was nearly perfect. > > Raymond Dear friend: this time I can't agree. I updated my 48GX with MK and Erable and... many many features that are not in the 48 out of the box and I need/want for my work. HP did not too much for it, but the users wich prgs I'm using, (and myself) did. And EVERYDAY, this calculator amazes me: how it can grow up and be better. And so perhaps you are right: it's nearly perfect ;-) ==== > Raymond Hellstern escribi.97 en el mensaje > > > > > The HP48GX hasn't been updated since 1993, > > > > > ...since there was no need;-) > > > > It was nearly perfect. > > > > Raymond > > Dear friend: this time I can't agree. I updated my 48GX with MK and Erable > and... many many features that are not in the 48 out of the box and I > need/want for my work. > HP did not too much for it, but the users wich prgs I'm using, (and myself) > did. > And EVERYDAY, this calculator amazes me: how it can grow up and be better. > And so perhaps you are right: it's nearly perfect ;-) > Isn't the 49 such an updated 48? ==== > Isn't the 49 such an updated 48? Yes. I think so. ==== > Isn't the 49 such an updated 48? It was supposed too. Unfortunatly, those who did the 49 wheren't as smart as the 48's developpers where :-( ==== > Paper, pencils and ink, the most archaic of scholarly tools, are > still more helpful (and cheaper) than any calculator in many cases, > and the most powerful of all analytical tools apparently hasn't > undergone hardware or firmware changes in all of recorded human > history, which makes me wonder how your girlfriend's young brother > can stand to still be using only his own utterly outmoded brain. Hmm.. Come to think of it, there is some software you can add to your brain, which helps it quite a bit to think more clearly, to feel far more positive, and to manage its entire body more effectively for its energy, health and longevity. The lack of knowledge of its existence, and lack of interest in its installation, seems as perplexing to me as to why many folks don't discover and update their 49G rom, (or even install all of WR's further enhancements :) Fortunately, unlike HP, the distributor of this brain software is not packing up and going away; we're staying the course: http://www.mum.edu http://www.maharishischooliowa.org/about_maharishi_school.htm http://www.permanentpeace.org/multimedia http://www.permanentpeace.org/multimedia/Hagelin_12.ram http://www.permanentpeace.org/research http://www.tm.org http://www.alltm.org . ==== X > Fortunately, unlike HP, the distributor of this brain software > is not packing up and going away; we're staying the course: > > http://www.mum.edu > http://www.maharishischooliowa.org/about_maharishi_school.htm > http://www.permanentpeace.org/multimedia > http://www.permanentpeace.org/multimedia/Hagelin_12.ram > http://www.permanentpeace.org/research > http://www.tm.org > http://www.alltm.org John - to you it's TM - to me it's Jesus Christ. Don't you think you're off topic?! ==== Perhaps the next best one will be the iPaq50....ugggh... > I bought an HP49 for the younger brother of my girlfriend to replace a > TI. He was thrilled and instantly proud of it. I spent time giving him > a crash course in the machine, and how to do the ROM updates. A bright > young guy, he noticed that the ROM updates were almost 2 years old. He > asked aren't there any newer ones? I answered no, and briefly > explained what I knew about HP's calculator division problems. He then > said this machine is dead in its tracks, huh? He was then visibly > depressed, as if his great new gift was now a tarnished cast-off. > There was little I could say, except that I found the HP49 of great > value in my engineering studies, and it would surely help him in high > school. As I drove home, it made me wonder the same thing: is the HP49 > truely dead in its tracks, are HP calcs all dinosaurs, relics of a by > gone era? > > J.C. Randerson > Pueblo, Colorado > ==== Hopefully, it is not a fossil in time, but I would say it suffered from the meteoric rise and crash of the 'new era economy'. Large corporation discarded tried and true principles of producing wealth for the get rich quick scheme of mergers and .con's and other paper shuffling scams. Well at least the CEOs made out ... like bandits. be sure to understand http://www.anti-matrix.net ==== i wanna make a link cable but i dont know the order of the wires within the cable.... any one know where i can find out? ==== > i don't know the order of the wires within the [hp48] cable... http://www.hpcalc.org/viewzip.php?id=3517&file=c_hp-pc.txt http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/48faq-12.html#ss12.1 Etc. ((o)) . ==== HP48+ > i wanna make a link cable but i dont know the order of the wires within the > cable.... > any one know where i can find out? > > > ==== everybody requesting it. Now, I have setup a web site to cover the time before HpCalc.org gets updated. Even if it has all the library I ported to the HP49G, it is not intended to replace HpCalc.org. It is just a temporary repository with a faster refresh rate ;-). The URL is http://www3.sympatico.ca/france.vallieres/ Alain Robillard ==== http://www.softintegration.com/ ==== **************************************************************************** *** We checked sharp zaurus at http://www.sharp-usa.com/products/FunctionPressReleaseSingle/0,1080,205-29 ,0 0.html It looks that they use Lineo's Embeddix, QT, and Java, Opera Web browser. PDA such as Sharp Zaurus. We will appreciate it if you can ask Sharp Zaurus and Lineo to run Ch. It will be easy for us to work them out. Xiaodong Zhou **************************************************************************** cool! i'll see how it turns out. did you guys see the comparison with mathematica they have on the site mentioned bellow? > http://www.softintegration.com/ ==== I have an hp49. I am having touble attaching the fumo library from the hp49 electrical engineering section of the hpcalc.org website. Has anyone had any luck attaching this library? I am able to copy it but my calculate fails to recognize it as a library. ==== I was looking at the manual but i can't find it! It's there a possiblity to solve Equation with letters ? Is there a possiblity to solve it with the calc ? Jani ==== try the SOLVE command ! e.g : 1: 'X' SOLVE HTH Bernd jani schrieb im Newsbeitrag > > I was looking at the manual but i can't find it! > > It's there a possiblity to solve Equation with letters ? > > Is there a possiblity to solve it with the calc ? > Jani > > > > ==== thank you very much!!! greets jani ==== thank you so much!!!!! greets jani can this be done with a 49? have not been able to do. thanks be sure to understand http://www.anti-matrix.net ==== > >can this be done with a 49? have not been able to do. thanks > >be sure to understand http://www.anti-matrix.net > > ==== I am starting up a project to develop a 39/40G Shell / Operating System Application to be written in System RPL. I am very new to this language but understand it sort of well. Anyway I want to make this a group project so I am going to need sample code from willing authors. I want this application to adhere to the following standards: - Programmable API for future Programs - Multi-Tasking (like linux with seperate terminals) - Gui Interface - Filing System , File Explorer - Connectivity with other infrared devies If you are willing to assist with this project reply here Help in Need, Rob Morgan ==== Why? > I am starting up a project to develop a 39/40G Shell / Operating System > Application > to be written in System RPL. I am very new to this language but understand > it sort of well. > > Anyway I want to make this a group project so I am going to need sample code > from willing > authors. > > I want this application to adhere to the following standards: > - Programmable API for future Programs > - Multi-Tasking (like linux with seperate terminals) > - Gui Interface > - Filing System , File Explorer > - Connectivity with other infrared devies > > If you are willing to assist with this project reply here > > Help in Need, > Rob Morgan > > > ==== > Why? - To improve on the flaws of the current system - Provide Better security - Faster for Equations or Games - Why was ShellEX developed for the 48G? - More intregration with other infrared devices - A easier system to develop games or apps for the current RPL OS - Fun! Rob Morgan <3d8f00c5@dnews.tpgi.com.au> ==== > > Why? > > - To improve on the flaws of the current system What flaws? > - Provide Better security Hard to achieve without the help of an MMU in the CPU. > - Faster for Equations or Games I doubt you'll be able to do faster... And as you're talking about games, I don't think that adding a suplementary layer will enhance the speed (mainly because actual games talk directly to the hardware). > - Why was ShellEX developed for the 48G? Why did it stop? > - More intregration with other infrared devices That's the first good reason. Unfortunately, you won't be able to do IrDA faster than 2400 bauds with the HP39 hardware... And if I remember correctly, the lowest available speed for IrDA is 9600 bauds. > - A easier system to develop games or apps for the current RPL OS Well... The actual OS is really good for RPL apps. > - Fun! Just add another one: - Lose time! ;) -- ----- RECHERCHONS HOMMES pr.8esentant peau sensible utilisant d.8eodorant sans alcool, pour tester produits cosm.8etiques, r.8emun.8eration en fin d'essai. -+- in Guide du Neuneu d'Usenet-Halte .88 l'exp.8erimentation neuneutale -+- ==== answer and no idea how to do. I want to install the scribe and todo list in the 1.1, i read there're in the 1.01 ? How i can bring it to run ? Can somebody help me ? Thx Ellum ==== if you have Organizer 1.1 properly installed, you only have to install the Scribe library. Then, from Organizer 1.1, press the Todo softkey (C) and you should have Scribe invoked with a Todo Manager database automatically setup in port 0 for the HP48 and in port 1 for the HP49G. Alain Robillard aml2t3$20km$1@news.imp.ch... > > answer and no idea how to do. > > I want to install the scribe and todo list in the 1.1, i read there're in > the 1.01 ? How i can bring it to run ? > > Can somebody help me ? > Thx > Ellum > > ==== on sept 30 you will be able to go to MIT for free!! well, almost :) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2270648.stm viva the internet! ==== and here it is (initial): http://ocw.mit.edu/index.html not as much as i thought :( and being free, no complaint from me :) > on sept 30 you will be able to go to MIT for free!! well, almost :) > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2270648.stm > > viva the internet! ==== >Another Baltimorean, > great! did you go to Townson University? a physics teacher of mine lectures there too: his name is Dr. Harry Olson. Do you know him by any chance? BTW the initial courses from MIT are: Anthropology Biology Chemical Engineering Chemistry Civil and Environmental Engineering Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences Economics Electrical Engineering and Computer Science Linguistics and Philosophy Management Mathematics Mechanical Engineering Ocean Engineering Political Science Urban Studies and Planning more info here: http://web.mit.edu/ocw/ > on sept 30 you will be able to go to MIT for free!! well, almost :) > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2270648.stm > > viva the internet! ==== > >Another Baltimorean, > > > > great! did you go to Townson University? Yep! I was there for about six years. My physics classes were the most fun. > a physics teacher of mine lectures there too: his name is Dr. Harry > Olson. Do you know him by any chance? No. Did he join recently? I moved to Champaign, IL, about two years back. > BTW the initial courses from MIT are: > > Anthropology > Biology > Chemical Engineering > Chemistry > Civil and Environmental Engineering > Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences > Economics > Electrical Engineering and Computer Science > Linguistics and Philosophy > Management > Mathematics > Mechanical Engineering > Ocean Engineering > Political Science > Urban Studies and Planning Argh, no physics?? :-( . ==== > No. Did he join recently? i don't know, 2 years maybe? > > BTW the initial courses from MIT are: > > > > Anthropology > > Biology > > Chemical Engineering > > Chemistry > > Civil and Environmental Engineering > > Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences > > Economics > > Electrical Engineering and Computer Science > > Linguistics and Philosophy > > Management > > Mathematics > > Mechanical Engineering > > Ocean Engineering > > Political Science > > Urban Studies and Planning > > Argh, no physics?? :-( they may have made a typo. i read down the page that they have a physics pilot course already made. Courses were selected from the following departments and groups for the pilot phase: Biology Electrical Engineering and Computer Science Linguistics and Philosophy Ocean Engineering Physics Sloan School of Management Speech Communications Urban Studies and Planning so, you no longer live in Baltimore? > . ==== > they may have made a typo. i read down the page that they have a > physics pilot course already made. Oh, good :-) > so, you no longer live in Baltimore? No, I'm now at Wolfram Research (www.wolfram.com). -- ==== > No, I'm now at Wolfram Research (www.wolfram.com). great, congrats! hope i'll see one of these days a -Research.com or a Bhuvafram-research.com or a wolfvanesh-research.com or ... :) i've been reading S. Wolfram's book The New Kind of Science. interesting. he was in Greenbelt-MD the other day (where i got the book). good luck ==== > on sept 30 you will be able to go to MIT for free!! well, almost :) > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2270648.stm Another Baltimorean, . ==== I just got my copy of the URROZ books. Like 'em so far, but..... One of the first examples (actually a psudo-example) is t^2-3t+5=0. so you enter this on the stack: 2: t^2-3t+5=0 1:'t' enter QUAD and I get QUAD Error: No soluntions found I have tried this several times and used the same key pattern out of the book. If you see what I am fouling up, I'd appreciate it. Matt ==== > > I just got my copy of the URROZ books. Like 'em so far, but..... > > One of the first examples (actually a psudo-example) is t^2-3t+5=0. > so you enter this on the stack: > > 2: t^2-3t+5=0 > 1:'t' > enter QUAD > > and I get QUAD Error: No soluntions found I'll bet you are trying to find complex solutions while in real mode. This does not work very well! If you are in real mode, your example above,t^2-3t+5=0, has no solutions, as you may easily verify by hand. When I am in ->complex mode<- and exact mode I get { 't=(3-i*sqrt(11))/2' 't=(3+-i*sqrt(11))/2'} and when in ->complex<- and approximate modes I get {'t=(1.5,-1.65831239158)''t=(1.5,1.65831239158)'} What more could anyone want of QUAD? ==== > What more could anyone want of QUAD? That it was backward compatible with the HP48 series? If some commands are not, some are somewhat, and some are completely backward compatible, then backward compatibility should be ditched alltogether. ==== I disagree. While it was not entirely clear or intuitive to get this particular problem to work on the 49G, I blame myself for not understanding how the new 49G works as opposed to the 48GX, which I have. I'm still trying to kick my old 48GX habits to understand everything about the 49G, not an easy task, but at the same time I realize that most of the mistakes I'm making are my own fault, not the calculators. Doug > > What more could anyone want of QUAD? > > That it was backward compatible with the HP48 series? > > If some commands are not, some are somewhat, and some are completely > backward compatible, then backward compatibility should be ditched > alltogether. > > ==== > I disagree. While it was not entirely clear or intuitive to get this > particular problem to work on the 49G, I blame myself for not understanding > how the new 49G works as opposed to the 48GX, which I have. QUAD does not work like on the HP48GX. Period. That was the intent - why keep it otherwise? > I'm still > trying to kick my old 48GX habits to understand everything about the 49G, > not an easy task, but at the same time I realize that most of the mistakes > I'm making are my own fault, not the calculators. Yeah, right. That's non-intuitive for ya. Regrads ==== I think you're missing the point. Either way, it can be done on both calculators. > > I disagree. While it was not entirely clear or intuitive to get this > > particular problem to work on the 49G, I blame myself for not > understanding > > how the new 49G works as opposed to the 48GX, which I have. > > QUAD does not work like on the HP48GX. Period. That was the intent - why > keep it otherwise? > > > I'm still > > trying to kick my old 48GX habits to understand everything about the 49G, > > not an easy task, but at the same time I realize that most of the mistakes > > I'm making are my own fault, not the calculators. > > Yeah, right. That's non-intuitive for ya. > > Regrads > ==== > I think you're missing the point. No, *you're* missing the point. I know it can be done - I know it can be done a zillion ways on the HP49G, but that was not the point. The point is that QUAD does not behave like on the HP48G series, which was the intent of the former HP49G programmers. That's the point, and with all these commands trying to emulate the HP48G, they simply shouldn't, as half-emulation is much much worse than no emulation at all. I know QUAD can solve a quadratic, it simply does not return the same result as on the HP48G. I don't care if the output is mathematically correct, it's not the same as on the HP48G. That's the sole purpose of QUAD, to deliver the exact same result as on the HP48G - not to imitate the HP49G SOLVE command. That's my point. ==== > > I think you're missing the point. > > No, *you're* missing the point. I know it can be done - I know it can be > done a zillion ways on the HP49G, but that was not the point. The point is > that QUAD does not behave like on the HP48G series, which was the intent of > the former HP49G programmers. That's the point, and with all these commands > trying to emulate the HP48G, they simply shouldn't, as half-emulation is > much much worse than no emulation at all. > > I know QUAD can solve a quadratic, it simply does not return the same result > as on the HP48G. I don't care if the output is mathematically correct, it's > not the same as on the HP48G. That's the sole purpose of QUAD, to deliver > the exact same result as on the HP48G - not to imitate the HP49G SOLVE > command. > > That's my point. > same *names* like on the HP48 but behave, well, almost(?) like on the HP48. It is superfluous and inellegant to have them when they don't guarantee backwards compatibility but are just side offsprings of other commands. In this particular case, SOLVE would be completelly sufficient. Greetings, Nick. ==== ISOL is another command which could have been very useful if left as it was on the HP48; since the new 49G SOLVE command seems to include the ISOL function, I don't see why there was any need to modify the original ISOL command, but it was modified anyway, and old programs which used ISOL to rearrange equations and solve quickly may therefore not be portable to the 49G (one example was my triangle solver TRI1, which I did finally port, but runs at only 1/16 the original speed, solely because of what happened to ISOL). The multiple equation solver (MES), which is really only a *numeric* solver, also got changed into the CAS category some while back, which caused it to fail in many cases (especially for the entire original HP48G equation library), but in 1.19-6 the MES was changed back and now works again. I think that there could have been far greater compatibility if certain design elements (for ALG mode) hadn't been adopted, and if various original 48G commands hadn't been changed to CAS commands when there was no need to, because the CAS, in most cases, has its own new commands anyway. There was also a tendency to introduce functions which were not careful to affect only variables in the current directory, and leave higher directories alone; there still exists a significant flaw in that the CAS can't function if some variable name exists in memory (that's why it asks you to delete it, and won't proceed if you don't), and if you have that same name existing in two directories (say both HOME and another directory that you're currently using), then these commands can't work at all. The CAS also assumes that every CAS command uses VX, but they don't (some use a variable named on level 1 instead, and others don't need any variable to be deleted), which leads to other problems like that above. ACO must have rushed this along too fast for a complete and thorough job to be done, and now that they have also killed the project entirely, it's unlikely that these things will ever be straightened out. So the 49G does a lot, but it wasn't as well executed as HP projects used to be in all past history. I wonder whether this finds a parallel or not in regard to the rest of HP's products? ((o)) . ==== > ACO must have rushed this along too fast for a complete > and thorough job to be done, and now that they have > also killed the project entirely, it's unlikely > that these things will ever be straightened out. Exactly. ==== > I know QUAD can solve a quadratic, it simply does not return the same result > as on the HP48G. I don't care if the output is mathematically correct, it's > not the same as on the HP48G. That's the sole purpose of QUAD, to deliver > the exact same result as on the HP48G - not to imitate the HP49G SOLVE > command. Then go back to the 48. For my part, vive le difference! ==== > Then go back to the 48. For my part, vive le difference! I don't give a flying f*** about the '48 (and soon neither the '49 for that matter). The point is - and read this carefully - there is *no* need for QUAD on the '49, was it not for backward compatibility. That purpose does QUAD not serve, hence it's buggy! Buggy, like so many other commands on the '49 - they'll never get fixed, and so what? My *point* is that QUAD does not behave like it should. If you don't get my point, fine. Don't tell me which calculator to to use - that decission is long since made. ==== While I am not crazy about learning new stuff with the 49g (I own a 48gx as well) I do not blame the calculator in this case. I blame the book. This is a typo, plain and simple. On the calc front, it might be nice if the calc popped up a window which said Hey, can I switch to Complex mode? instead of just dumping. The operator should have been smart enough to figure that out also, but the operator was up till 2:30 studying, which was dumb. I'll remember that next time I feel like a marathon 49g lesson. Sorry to start such a ruckus, and thanks for the help, Matt ==== > I blame the book. This is a typo, plain and simple. Or the book was written for another ROM version? You wouldn't believe how much this type of behaviour has changed throughout the last 30 or so ROM revisions. > On the calc front, it might be nice if the calc popped up a window which > said Hey, can I switch to Complex mode? instead of just dumping. If your expression was 't^2-3*t+i' instead of 't^2-3*t+5', it would. I don't think it should even then (if QUAD imitates SOLVE), since one has definetely stated real mode. On the other hand, I don't think that QUAD should imitate SOLVE - it should function exactly as on the HP48G series, and return the exact same result, or not exist on the HP49G at all. ==== It's an obvious error/typo. If you try to do it manually you'll see that it indeed does not factor down. Doug > > I just got my copy of the URROZ books. Like 'em so far, but..... > > One of the first examples (actually a psudo-example) is t^2-3t+5=0. > so you enter this on the stack: > > 2: t^2-3t+5=0 > 1:'t' > enter QUAD > > and I get QUAD Error: No soluntions found > > I have tried this several times and used the same key pattern out of the > book. If you see what I am fouling up, I'd appreciate it. > > Matt > ==== > It's an obvious error/typo. If you try to do it manually you'll see that it > indeed does not factor down. And? It does have two numeric solutions (as all quadratics have). It works fine on the HP48GX (returning 't=(3+s1*(0,3.31662479036))/2'), so this is another incompatibility on the HP49G. Why expect it to work anyway? I've stopped to. ==== I can get the same answer on the 49G. I apologize for not being more clear. What I should have said was that it wasn't a straight forward problem like normal quadratics in that you can factorialize the equation out to get the factors of 't'. You are right in that all quadratics have solutions, sorry for not being clear. In order to get the same thing on the 49G, you have to make sure the calculator is in complex mode and make sure flags 2 and 3 are clear. My machine was also in exact mode. The answer I got was: { 't=(3-i*SQRT(11))/2' 't=(3+i*SQRT(11))/2' } Doug > > It's an obvious error/typo. If you try to do it manually you'll see that > it > > indeed does not factor down. > > And? It does have two numeric solutions (as all quadratics have). It works > fine on the HP48GX (returning 't=(3+s1*(0,3.31662479036))/2'), so this is > another incompatibility on the HP49G. > > Why expect it to work anyway? I've stopped to. > > ==== I'm a dufus. Last night when I looked at it I didn't even think to do it myself. Thats why I bought such a great calc! :) Matt > It's an obvious error/typo. If you try to do it manually you'll see that it > indeed does not factor down. > > Doug > > >> >>I just got my copy of the URROZ books. Like 'em so far, but..... >> >>One of the first examples (actually a psudo-example) is t^2-3t+5=0. >>so you enter this on the stack: >> >>2: t^2-3t+5=0 >>1:'t' >>enter QUAD >> >>and I get QUAD Error: No soluntions found >> >>I have tried this several times and used the same key pattern out of the >>book. If you see what I am fouling up, I'd appreciate it. >> >>Matt >> > > > ==== I had an example in calc where we had to do some regression. No big deal right? Wrong, I keep getting an error back from the Calc. I hit right-shift and STAT, then go to fit data. I enter the data by going to EDAT and hit edit. I enter into the matrix editor the following: 0,540 50,390 100,390 150,430 200,425 250,360 300,275 350,125 400,0 And there it sits in EDAT. Then I used Exponential FIT, Power FIT, and BEST FIT. With Expo. AND Power FIT I get the following error: ERROR: Invalid E(summation) Data LN(0) AND Best Fit gives me a linear formula. The answer is a quartic (which I forgot to copy off the board!!!) This is disturbing as the TI83 had no problems with it. I would assume that either with additional software or the default stuff I could get the right answer. Matt ==== > > I had an example in calc where we had to do some regression. No big deal > right? Wrong, I keep getting an error back from the Calc. > > I hit right-shift and STAT, then go to fit data. > > I enter the data by going to EDAT and hit edit. > > I enter into the matrix editor the following: > 0,540 > 50,390 > 100,390 > 150,430 > 200,425 > 250,360 > 300,275 > 350,125 > 400,0 > > And there it sits in EDAT. > > > Then I used Exponential FIT, Power FIT, and BEST FIT. > With Expo. AND Power FIT I get the following error: > ERROR: Invalid E(summation) Data LN(0) If any of the x values are zero, the LOG fit wont work because it requires calculation of LOG(0), similarly if any y values are zero the EXP fit reqires calculation of LOG(0). > > AND Best Fit gives me a linear formula. > > The answer is a quartic (which I forgot to copy off the board!!!) > > This is disturbing as the TI83 had no problems with it. I would assume > that either with additional software or the default stuff I could get > the right answer. > > Matt > There are a variety of polynomial-fitting libraries available at http://www.hpcalc.org/ FITn is probably the simplest of them. ==== matt escribi.97 en el mensaje > 0,540 >......... > 400,0 > You can't use neither log fit nor power fit if x=0, as in you first data. The y=0 in the last one, makes you can't use neither exp nor power (again) fits. Clear these data and you'll be able... Hope this helps ==== Does anyone have ny experience of using these AAA NiMH rechareable batteries in an HP48. The adertising blurb says they last twice as long as alkaline but what about their voltage? ==== I am using Rechargable Energizer they are pretty good, and yes you have to keep a spare set because the low battery sign last a few minutes. Marturo Ubi Dubidum Ibi Libertas ==== > Does anyone have ny experience of using these AAA NiMH rechareable batteries > in an HP48. The adertising blurb says they last twice as long as alkaline > but what about their voltage? I've used them in the 48 and in other devices. It's not true that they have twice the life on a charge as alkaline. It's more like 2/3 the life. Alkaline holds a charge quite a bit longer. Of course NiMH can be recharged. The reason I didn't keep using them is there are times I don't use my calculator for a month and NiMH self discharges. They're gone in a couple of weeks whether you use them or not. The problem with not getting enough notice when they're low isn't as severe as people make it sound. I've gotten warnings when I was away from the house and couldn't change the battery till I got home. I didn't use it as much till I got home later but I did use it some. It wasn't a problem. Barry ==== > > Does anyone have ny experience of using these AAA NiMH rechareable batteries > in an HP48. The adertising blurb says they last twice as long as alkaline > but what about their voltage? They are great, the lower voltage doesn't affect the calc. -- This message was written with 100% recycled electrons Pivo ==== > > > > Does anyone have ny experience of using these AAA NiMH rechareable batteries > > in an HP48. The adertising blurb says they last twice as long as alkaline > > but what about their voltage? > > They are great, the lower voltage doesn't affect the calc. read this: http://www.greenbatteries.com/documents/Battery_FAQ.htm#substitue It explains why - the lower voltage is not a problem - we have less time after the 'low battery' sign comes on the rest of the FAQ (and Myths) is highly recommended, too. Werner ==== Except that a very careful user should have a spare set available, since there is only one minute or so left when the battery annuciator goes on. The alkalines have a straight line voltage curve and the NiCd/NiMH have a flatcurve with a quick drop at the end. Be careful out there! This message was written with 100% new positrons and it will self-annihilate in a picosecond :) > > > > Does anyone have ny experience of using these AAA NiMH rechareable batteries > > in an HP48. The adertising blurb says they last twice as long as alkaline > > but what about their voltage? > > They are great, the lower voltage doesn't affect the calc. > > -- > This message was written with 100% recycled electrons > > Pivo ==== Is there a way to find the one-sided limit of a function? Our math class wants us to graph each equation and detemerine it my looking at it, but there must be a quicker way, as it becomes tedious to wait for the graph to finish. By a one-sided limit, I mean finding the limit of a function as you approach from the left or the right. --Andrew ==== > Is there a way to find the one-sided limit of a function? Our math class > wants us to graph each equation and detemerine it my looking at it, but > there must be a quicker way, as it becomes tedious to wait for the graph to > finish. Take '1/X' as an example (try it out). '1/X' 'X=0' LIMIT -> unsigned inf '1/X' 'X=0+0' LIMIT -> +inf '1/X' 'X=0-0' LIMIT -> -inf Does the above make sense on its own? If not, please write again. ==== > Take '1/X' as an example (try it out). > > '1/X' 'X=0' LIMIT -> unsigned inf > '1/X' 'X=0+0' LIMIT -> +inf > '1/X' 'X=0-0' LIMIT -> -inf > > Does the above make sense on its own? If not, please write again. Yes, it makes sense to me. However, when I try out the examples, I still get an unsigned infinity symbol each time. Are there certain CAS settings with must be set? ==== > Yes, it makes sense to me. However, when I try out the examples, I still get > an unsigned infinity symbol each time. Are there certain CAS settings with > must be set? Clear flag -120 (Silent mode off) Clear flag -106 (Simp. in series) ==== > Clear flag -120 (Silent mode off) > Clear flag -106 (Simp. in series) --Andrew Huey ==== By the way, I realise I can use the table of values, but that is also quite slow. I'm not sure I worded my question properly. By a one-sided limit, I mean: as you approach a point from each side, you are approaching different points, and a limit does not exist. Is there a way to find the point you are approaching from each side? ==== In case anyone has a link to my HP38/39/40G site (The HP HOME view) please note that I now have a new address of http://www.hphomeview.com/ with a new look too. It's still under construction so if you notice any broken links etc please let me know. The content is pretty much the same as before, just organised a bit differently and with some outdated material removed. ==== I am a newbie to writing programs and I am trying to write a program for both the Hp49 and the Ti89, and I need some help. I have looked all over the net and can't find an answer to my question. Here it is: I have a list stored in variable 'l1'as well as a list in 'l2', 'l3', and 'l4'. How do write the program to randomly pick a value out of list 'l1'? How about list 'l2', etc.? I have tried rand(), but that doesn't work. Any ideas, or am I going about it all wrong? EG (89): :{1,2,3,4}->l1 :{House, car, boat, bike}->l2 :{CO,AZ,UT,NY}->l3 :{Amy, Scott, Mike, Susan}->l4 :Disp ??????? ==== > I am a newbie to writing programs and I am trying to write a program > for both the Hp49 and the Ti89, and I need some help. I have looked > all over the net and can't find an answer to my question. Here it is: > I have a list stored in variable 'l1'as well as a list in 'l2', 'l3', > and 'l4'. How do write the program to randomly pick a value out of > list 'l1'? How about list 'l2', etc.? I have tried rand(), but that > doesn't work. Any ideas, or am I going about it all wrong? > > EG (89): > > :{1,2,3,4}->l1 > :{House, car, boat, bike}->l2 > :{CO,AZ,UT,NY}->l3 > :{Amy, Scott, Mike, Susan}->l4 > :Disp ??????? > Plain user RPL : In order to get any element out of a list : 1: yourlist --> 1: random element out of yourlist << DUP SIZE RAND * CEIL GET >> store this and run it... That's a start, it's not very clear what end result you want to achieve with the other lists. G.8erard ==== > > I am a newbie to writing programs and I am trying to write a program > > for both the Hp49 and the Ti89, and I need some help. I have looked > > all over the net and can't find an answer to my question. Here it is: > > I have a list stored in variable 'l1'as well as a list in 'l2', 'l3', > > and 'l4'. How do write the program to randomly pick a value out of > > list 'l1'? How about list 'l2', etc.? I have tried rand(), but that > > doesn't work. Any ideas, or am I going about it all wrong? > > > > EG (89): > > > > :{1,2,3,4}->l1 > > :{House, car, boat, bike}->l2 > > :{CO,AZ,UT,NY}->l3 > > :{Amy, Scott, Mike, Susan}->l4 > > :Disp ??????? > > > > Plain user RPL : > > In order to get any element out of a list : > > 1: yourlist --> 1: random element out of yourlist > > << DUP SIZE RAND * CEIL GET >> > > store this and run it... > > That's a start, it's not very clear what end result you > want to achieve with the other lists. > > > G.8erard appreciate it! Have a nice day! :o) Aaron ==== > I am a newbie to writing programs and I am trying to write a program > for both the Hp49 and the Ti89, and I need some help. I have looked > all over the net and can't find an answer to my question. Here it is: > I have a list stored in variable 'l1'as well as a list in 'l2', 'l3', > and 'l4'. How do write the program to randomly pick a value out of > list 'l1'? How about list 'l2', etc.? I have tried rand(), but that > doesn't work. Any ideas, or am I going about it all wrong? > > EG (89): > > :{1,2,3,4}->l1 > :{House, car, boat, bike}->l2 > :{CO,AZ,UT,NY}->l3 > :{Amy, Scott, Mike, Susan}->l4 > :Disp ??????? > How about l1[rand(dim(l1))] ? (Same for l2 and l3.) -- ==== It really was just about perfect for programming with the extra alphabetic keys. What made them go to a traditional form-factor for the 48? Britt ==== I have a 28S as well as a 48GX and I prefer the single keyboard. The 28S is nice in some ways, but is a pain in the butt to hold. I think th 28S was and is a great calculator though! > It really was just about perfect for programming with the extra > alphabetic keys. What made them go to a traditional form-factor for the > 48? > > Britt > ==== > The 28S is a pain in the butt to hold. With its double-hinged case (same as 18C/28C/19B[ii]), you can open it 360 degrees, in which case it looks (and holds) like other vertical calculators, except that the alpha keys (and any associated functions on the HP28 models) are on the back side, so that you have to flip it over, more or less, to use those (but the display and all the numeric keys and ENTER are in front). As to a computer interface, mentioned in another post, this clamshell series has only IR *HP*printer* output (not readable by any PC unless some HP palmtop can read it), and of course no input but the keyboard, so there is no computer interface, hence no programming other than by manually typable user command programs. ((o)) . ==== > > It really was just about perfect for programming with the extra > alphabetic keys. What made them go to a traditional form-factor for the > 48? I had a 28S and it was good for keying in...but I couldn't get software for it. HP told me they had only released the 28s to give programmers a worktool but that they themselves didn't write software, and to check Grapevine Publishing. But when I did, they said, We don't have any programs for the 28S, but if you write one, we'll sell it for you. and intersection program, and then the 48 came out (and SMI already had a good cogo prog) so I returned the 28 and purchased the one I still own. I'm not sure but I don't remember an interface on the 28. /ramalane -- Offical Alt.Hackers.Malicious Survival Guide, FAQ, and Who's Who (Or as rikijo sez, Who dat iz?) http://www.ramalane.com ==== when it comes to an interface there were actually a possibility to connect the 28S to the PC transferring files (programs) forth and back between PC and calc. As the 28S was still top of the product line a german guy named Frederich Schr.9ader (at that time living in Denmark) developed a cable connection to the PC. Several years ago I contacted him because I wanted him to modify one of my 28s but (I think he told me) it would be too much work starting this project again... and unfortunately I haven't ever seen such a modified 28 for sale on ebay... which means I am still waiting...:-) Martin ramalane© schrieb: > >>It really was just about perfect for programming with the extra >>alphabetic keys. What made them go to a traditional form-factor for the >>48? > > > I had a 28S and it was good for keying in...but I couldn't get software > for it. HP told me they had only released the 28s to give programmers a > worktool but that they themselves didn't write software, and to check > Grapevine Publishing. But when I did, they said, We don't have any > programs for the 28S, but if you write one, we'll sell it for you. > and intersection program, and then the 48 came out (and SMI already had > a good cogo prog) so I returned the 28 and purchased the one I still > own. > I'm not sure but I don't remember an interface on the 28. > > /ramalane > ==== ...they DRAG ME BACK IN! :o) I just blew the dust off of my 48SX and 48GX calculators. I use to use the hell out of them back in my land surveying days so I was familiar with some surveying software that converted the 48 into a data collector. Now I'm in a different field and I need a portable data collector which can d/L to a PC (Stanley Trent's SMI program comes to mind) ...but now I need a customizable program with this feature: It must be able to print a paper receipt in the field. And I doubt they even still sell the old infrared-link thermal printers (and even if they didI'd think that would be a rather cumbersome solution). Does anybody have any ideas? BTW, if you have any experience with Portable DataLab I'd welcome your comments as well. /ramalane -- Offical Alt.Hackers.Malicious Survival Guide, FAQ, and Who's Who (Or as rikijo sez, Who dat iz?) http://www.ramalane.com ==== > ...they DRAG ME BACK IN! :o) > > I just blew the dust off of my 48SX and 48GX calculators. > I use to use the hell out of them back in my land surveying > days so I was familiar with some surveying software that > converted the 48 into a data collector. Now I'm in a > different field and I need a portable data collector which can The hp 82240B printers have been going for $60ish on ebay lately. and I don't see them as cumbersome at all. I've got a 48sx, manual, and printer all carried in a small (like, the old small 386 era) notebook pc envelope stuffed with foam cutouts to give protection. total weight around a kilo, size of a 3 ring binder for A4 paper. Actually, I've added an hp95lx to the case lately, and theres' room for batteries. > d/L to a PC (Stanley Trent's SMI program comes to mind) > ...but now I need a customizable program with this feature: > > It must be able to print a paper receipt in the field. And I doubt > they even still sell the old infrared-link thermal printers (and even > if they didI'd think that would be a rather cumbersome solution). > > Does anybody have any ideas? > > > BTW, if you have any experience with Portable DataLab I'd > welcome your comments as well. > > /ramalane > -- while E <> ==== This is not exactly a 48/49 question, but I was wondering if any of the HP collectors out there know when HP changed the 17Bii's packaging from a box to the plastic bubble pack? Also, based on the serial number or other info can one tell when the unit was manufactured. Steve ==== > This is not exactly a 48/49 question, but I was wondering if any of > the HP collectors out there know when HP changed the 17Bii's packaging > from a box to the plastic bubble pack? > I think it was around the time when the 49G was introduced. Note that it came out in blister in the U.S. (and maybe other countries), but in box in Europe. Seems to be similar for other models, like the 17BII. I have some of them made in Indonesia, but all in box, not in blister. My newest 17BII is from 2000. > Also, based on the serial > number or other info can one tell when the unit was manufactured. > See www.hpmuseum.org Raymond ==== FEM48 has been updated to version 5.0 and is available through the following link: http://home.hccnet.nl/c.lugtmeier/c.lugtmeier/HP48Fil/Fem48/FEM48v50.zip Please note that this link is only available for a short time. FEM48 will be (is being) ported to the HP49 by Alain Robillard. After the porting is finished the complete package will be published on my web-page and on hpcalc.org. Caspar Lugtmeier Changes: * LCASE module .87 new load case and combinations module .87 now you can save loads as load cases and make combinations of load cases .87 includes updates of FEM48 commands like SAVEFEM2, PGLD2, SCALC2 etc * FEM48 module .87 added temperature loads option with command MLT .87 added display of choice position and choice list length to FBROW browser .87 SCALC now always uses Cholesky solver .87 added recall state of toggle commands (e.g. now BZË sets state and BZ? recalls state) .87 CHOL command removed .87 LCAS command added .87 modified SINFO display .87 added protection for FBROW for large header strings .87 removed autocalculation with SPLOT command (when DFORË is toggled on) .87 added recall state of toggle commands * QUERY module .87 modified NPLT, VPLT, MPLT, UXPLT, RYPLT and UZPLT commands, which make it possible to plot N, V, M, etc lines for more than one member in one plot (handy for continuous beams) .87 now also scrolling along plotted graphs, with displayed values under plot (trace mode) .87 removed batchplot facilities .87 removed QMEM commands, now member provided by user for each command (faster) .87 improved scaling of constant value plots (now in middle of screen) .87 improved reaction to ON (cancel) key .87 added optional tagging of stack results .87 added recall state of toggle commands * WIZRD module .87 added Ix to SED48 link (was only choice of Iy and Iz), order is now: Ix Iy Iz, with default position on Iy .87 bugfix: now Iz selection in SED48 link chooses Iz correctly (was Iy) * PRINT module .87 all non-integers are now displayed using stack format (e.g. 3 ENG) * MOVLD module .87 MOVLD command is now available from the FEM menu (Left-Shift SCALC or SCALC2) .87 now a nullnamed library * Description of FEM48: The FEM48 library uses the Finite Elements Method and is designed to be used for the structural analysis of 2D frames, trusses and (continious) beams. FEM48 is completely written in SysRPL (with some assembly). FEM48 follows a modular approach. You can choose to load only the modules you need. The available modules integrate seamlessly into the FEM48 interface. * Modules: .87 FEM48 module : main library, not optional .87 QUERY module : beam analysis .87 WIZRD module : wizards for structures, section properties and loads .87 PRINT module : generate/print strings of input and/or output .87 MOVLD module : generate moving loads on (continious) beams .87 LCASE module : handle load cases and load case combinations * Main features: .87 extensive manual (READ IT!) .87 modular approach .87 extremely easy to use due to excellent interface .87 supports frames, trusses and (continious) beams .87 load cases and combinations are possible .87 beam analysis (numerical and/or graphical) .87 data can be entered in three (!) ways: 1) using a structure wizard for standard structures 2) using input prompts for structure data 3) assemble data arrays and store them from the stack .87 text file (string) output of input and calculation results .87 (un)deformed structure plots with optional displaying of supports, node numbers, members numbers .87 seven (!) load types, including displacement loads, temperature loads and moving loads .87 configurable matrix viewer/editor (choose your own matrix editor i.e. MATRIX or EDITB with Metakernel) .87 configurable stringviewer (i.e. VV, the author's VIEW library or EDITB with Metakernel) .87 superfast Cholesky matrix solve routine (assembly language) .87 links to an external section database (SED48 v1.2 or higher) .87 file management .87 completely programmable (write your own batch files) ==== Good to hear. Hanging out for FEM49v50. > > FEM48 has been updated to version 5.0 and is available through the following > link: > http://home.hccnet.nl/c.lugtmeier/c.lugtmeier/HP48Fil/Fem48/FEM48v50.zip > > Please note that this link is only available for a short time. FEM48 will be > (is being) ported to the HP49 by Alain Robillard. After the porting is > finished the complete package will be published on my web-page and on > hpcalc.org. > > Caspar Lugtmeier > > > > Changes: > > * LCASE module > .87 new load case and combinations module > .87 now you can save loads as load cases and make combinations > of load cases > .87 includes updates of FEM48 commands like SAVEFEM2, PGLD2, > SCALC2 etc > > * FEM48 module > .87 added temperature loads option with command MLT > .87 added display of choice position and choice list length to > FBROW browser > .87 SCALC now always uses Cholesky solver > .87 added recall state of toggle commands (e.g. now BZË sets > state and BZ? recalls state) > .87 CHOL command removed > .87 LCAS command added > .87 modified SINFO display > .87 added protection for FBROW for large header strings > .87 removed autocalculation with SPLOT command (when DFORË > is toggled on) > .87 added recall state of toggle commands > > * QUERY module > .87 modified NPLT, VPLT, MPLT, UXPLT, RYPLT and UZPLT commands, > which make it possible to plot N, V, M, etc lines for more > than one member in one plot (handy for continuous beams) > .87 now also scrolling along plotted graphs, with displayed > values under plot (trace mode) > .87 removed batchplot facilities > .87 removed QMEM commands, now member provided by user for each > command (faster) > .87 improved scaling of constant value plots (now in middle of > screen) > .87 improved reaction to ON (cancel) key > .87 added optional tagging of stack results > .87 added recall state of toggle commands > > * WIZRD module > .87 added Ix to SED48 link (was only choice of Iy and Iz), order > is now: Ix Iy Iz, with default position on Iy > .87 bugfix: now Iz selection in SED48 link chooses Iz correctly > (was Iy) > > * PRINT module > .87 all non-integers are now displayed using stack format (e.g. > 3 ENG) > > * MOVLD module > .87 MOVLD command is now available from the FEM menu (Left-Shift > SCALC or SCALC2) > .87 now a nullnamed library > > > > > * Description of FEM48: > > The FEM48 library uses the Finite Elements Method and is designed > to be used for the structural analysis of 2D frames, trusses and > (continious) beams. > FEM48 is completely written in SysRPL (with some assembly). > > FEM48 follows a modular approach. You can choose to load only the > modules you need. The available modules integrate seamlessly into > the FEM48 interface. > > * Modules: > > .87 FEM48 module : main library, not optional > .87 QUERY module : beam analysis > .87 WIZRD module : wizards for structures, section properties > and loads > .87 PRINT module : generate/print strings of input and/or output > .87 MOVLD module : generate moving loads on (continious) beams > .87 LCASE module : handle load cases and load case combinations > > * Main features: > > .87 extensive manual (READ IT!) > .87 modular approach > .87 extremely easy to use due to excellent interface > .87 supports frames, trusses and (continious) beams > .87 load cases and combinations are possible > .87 beam analysis (numerical and/or graphical) > .87 data can be entered in three (!) ways: > 1) using a structure wizard for standard structures > 2) using input prompts for structure data > 3) assemble data arrays and store them from the stack > .87 text file (string) output of input and calculation results > .87 (un)deformed structure plots with optional displaying of supports, > node numbers, members numbers > .87 seven (!) load types, including displacement loads, temperature > loads and moving loads > .87 configurable matrix viewer/editor (choose your own matrix editor > i.e. MATRIX or EDITB with Metakernel) > .87 configurable stringviewer (i.e. VV, the author's VIEW library or > EDITB with Metakernel) > .87 superfast Cholesky matrix solve routine (assembly language) > .87 links to an external section database (SED48 v1.2 or higher) > .87 file management > .87 completely programmable (write your own batch files) > > > ==== I have been meaning to ask this. What's a good way of entering cheat notes into a HP48GX with a PC? I always use notepad and saving each without the .txt file extension. Does anyone do differently? How does one enter pictures? ==== > What's a good way of entering cheat notes into a HP48GX ... Better, fair play. ==== > Better, fair play. > how strange, debe tratar de ser mas honesto contigo mismo ==== > how strange, debe tratar de ser mas honesto contigo mismo ? ==== Does this ng have a FAQ? (and no, being the lazy bastard that I am I didn't check faq.org first). I've been reading hpcalc.org and I'm trying to avoid asking the really stupid questions. :o) TIA /ramalane -- Offical Alt.Hackers.Malicious Survival Guide, FAQ, and Who's Who (Or as rikijo sez, Who dat iz?) http://www.ramalane.com ==== http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/comp.sys.hp48/ [old, and where's part 3?] ==== > > Does this ng have a FAQ? (and no, being the lazy bastard that I am I > didn't check faq.org first). Yes it does. > I've been reading hpcalc.org and I'm trying to avoid asking the really > stupid questions. :o) You're not trying very hard are you? If you really have been reading hpcalc.org you whould have seen the comp.sys.hp48 FAQ under the More files Documentation section It is no longer sent to this newsgroup to save bandwidth. -- ir. P.F.Geelhoed Delft University of Technology Laboratory for Aero & Hydrodynamics Leeghwaterstraat 21, 2628 CA Delft, The Netherlands +31-15-2786656 / +31-15-2782947 (fax) peter@dutw1479.wbmt.tudelft.nl ==== Does any body know if it is possible to do limits with two variables on the 49G running 1.19-6. For example, is it possible to do ëlim((cos(x)+y)/(y-sin(x)),x,y)' I don't know if it is possible, and if it is I don't know how to input the two variables at the end. Jorge Gonzalez ==== > Does any body know if it is possible to do limits with two variables > on the 49G running 1.19-6. > > For example, is it possible to do ëlim((cos(x)+y)/(y-sin(x)),x,y)' I > don't know if it is possible, and if it is I don't know how to input > the two variables at the end. > > > Jorge Gonzalez I forgot to mention as (x,y) -> (pi/2,0) ==== > > Does any body know if it is possible to do limits with two variables > > on the 49G running 1.19-6. > > > > For example, is it possible to do ‘lim((cos(x)+y)/(y-sin(x)),x,y)' I > > don't know if it is possible, and if it is I don't know how to input > > the two variables at the end. > > > > > > Jorge Gonzalez > > I forgot to mention as (x,y) -> (pi/2,0) (x,y) -> (pi/2,0) is not a path, it is the final destination of (x,y). You must first now for example how y depends on x (or vice versa) while you approach (pi/2,0). For example such a dependancy could be y=x-pi/2. It defines a straight line on the complex plane (the path). But it could also be y=cos(x) which is a completely different path, but also results in y=0 when x=pi/2. So you have to choose your path. Like real life ;-) Greetings, Nick. ==== > Does any body know if it is possible to do limits with two variables > on the 49G running 1.19-6. > > For example, is it possible to do 'lim((cos(x)+y)/(y-sin(x)),x,y)' I > don't know if it is possible, and if it is I don't know how to input > the two variables at the end. Multivariate limits don't make any sense without the relationship between the variables stated. Commonly speaking, you must know by which path you want the multivariated limit calculated. ==== I am trying to use the FUMO DSP library I found in the HPCALC.ORG website but it requires a password to extract the file from the winrar file, the have not heard from him, does any of you by chance have the password for that winrar file (Fumo0v025)? -- Mariano I Lizarraga ==== I can't mount a DoInputForm simple program !!! It simple doesn't work at all. there's the source: --- :: LABEL ONE TEN ONE ZERO 'DROPFALSE TITLE DoInputForm ; --- I also tryed with fields, but it is known that we can have a InputForm with only a label. I compile it and it don't run at all. *** I SPEND MORE THAT 4 HOURS IN IT, I'm doing certainly all right, but there's no way of this thing to work.. :( ==== You could use one of the Input Form Builders. for the HP-48 from me, and create some simple or even compley forms. Available at www.hpcalc.org Then you'll see that your example has one flaw: A form must consist of at least one label AND one field, aside from the title;-) And don't forget the label count and field count. Generic stack diagram for DoInputForm: Labels Fields LblCount FldCount FormProc Title --> ? hth, Raymond Renato Jr schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I can't mount a DoInputForm simple program !!! > It simple doesn't work at all. > there's the source: > > --- > :: > LABEL > ONE > TEN > ONE > ZERO > 'DROPFALSE > TITLE > DoInputForm > ; > > --- > I also tryed with fields, but it is known that we can have a InputForm > with only a label. > I compile it and it don't run at all. > *** I SPEND MORE THAT 4 HOURS IN IT, I'm doing certainly all right, > but there's no way of this thing to work.. :( ==== Has anyone got any information on weather HP is still in the calculator business? The HPCC Conference this past weekend was to have reps from HP to give the definitive answer to that, but so far no on is saying anything. -- Richard Garner rgarner@vidnet.net ==== In message , Richard Garner >Has anyone got any information on weather HP is still in the calculator >business? The HPCC Conference this past weekend was to have reps from >HP to give the definitive answer to that, but so far no on is saying >anything. Summarising from the notes I took at HP's presentation: They are still in the calculator business but have only just restarted [so don't expect any great shakes soon]. They have a roadmap for the an updated financial model in Spring '03. New high-end scientific and high-end financial models won't appear until Summer/Autumn '03. They warned that the first product out of the starting gate will be a clone type calculator. Future models would feature unique HP designs. They are definitely calculator focussed rather than PDA + calculator software as this type of product belongs to another division. They acknowledged that RPN is what differentiates their products and they have no intention of dropping it. However algebraic capability has to be there in order to sell at all. A suggestion from the floor was to introduce an RPN 4-banger - something that I have seen requested in this group a number of times. It was backed up by a maths teacher who added that the biggest obstacle in introducing RPN to older students is that they are too set in their ways. A simpler model introduced at an earlier age would do wonders. I can see the logic in this and I think HP do too. They didn't really have a presentation as such beyond the roadmap (+ some ideas about how to reduce supply chain and distribution costs inherent in the old ways of producing and selling calcs) and took questions. My opinion: it looks good - they appear to know what they are doing and have some good guys working in the group (called, incidentally, the Emerging Technologies Group). I am confident that they - as individuals - are in this for the duration, know what calculators are and aren't afraid to make something that they think will be cool for engineers as well as appealing to the mass, i.e. student, market. However, they are still a very small group in a very large company and things can change overnight through no fault of their own. -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== What about production quality, which was also a hallmark of HP? I think it would be cool to produce an entry level Scientific/Engineering calculator that is a cross between the 42 and 48 with a 3 or 4 level stack and 2-D graphics -- the multi-line stack display makes learning RPN very easy. G Savage > In message , Richard Garner > >Has anyone got any information on weather HP is still in the calculator > >business? The HPCC Conference this past weekend was to have reps from > >HP to give the definitive answer to that, but so far no on is saying > >anything. > > Summarising from the notes I took at HP's presentation: > > They are still in the calculator business but have only just restarted > [so don't expect any great shakes soon]. They have a roadmap for the > an updated financial model in Spring '03. New high-end scientific and > high-end financial models won't appear until Summer/Autumn '03. > > They warned that the first product out of the starting gate will be a > clone type calculator. Future models would feature unique HP designs. > > They are definitely calculator focussed rather than PDA + calculator > software as this type of product belongs to another division. > > They acknowledged that RPN is what differentiates their products and > they have no intention of dropping it. However algebraic capability has > to be there in order to sell at all. > > A suggestion from the floor was to introduce an RPN 4-banger - something > that I have seen requested in this group a number of times. It was > backed up by a maths teacher who added that the biggest obstacle in > introducing RPN to older students is that they are too set in their > ways. A simpler model introduced at an earlier age would do wonders. I > can see the logic in this and I think HP do too. > > They didn't really have a presentation as such beyond the roadmap (+ > some ideas about how to reduce supply chain and distribution costs > inherent in the old ways of producing and selling calcs) and took > questions. > > My opinion: it looks good - they appear to know what they are doing and > have some good guys working in the group (called, incidentally, the > Emerging Technologies Group). I am confident that they - as individuals > - are in this for the duration, know what calculators are and aren't > afraid to make something that they think will be cool for engineers as > well as appealing to the mass, i.e. student, market. However, they are > still a very small group in a very large company and things can change > overnight through no fault of their own. > > > -- > Bruce Horrocks > Hampshire > England > bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== > What about production quality, which was also a hallmark of HP? I think it > would be cool to produce an entry level Scientific/Engineering calculator > that is a cross between the 42 and 48 with a 3 or 4 level stack and 2-D > graphics -- the multi-line stack display makes learning RPN very easy. > > G Savage > I totally agree !!!! An HP52, same shape and size as the HP42, maybe slightly longer to accommodate a 3-4 stack display. Same quality keyboard, but with a better rechargeable lithium backup than the HP42. 2-way IR and 4-pin serial port. 128kb memory. Same User-RPL as the 48/49, or keystroke programming option. Inexpensive. That sort of calculator would be terrific. ==== Richard escribi.97 en el mensaje > I totally agree !!!! > > An HP52, same shape and size as the HP42, maybe slightly longer to > accommodate a 3-4 stack display. Same quality keyboard, but with a > better rechargeable lithium backup than the HP42. 2-way IR and 4-pin > serial port. 128kb memory. Same User-RPL as the 48/49, or keystroke > programming option. Inexpensive. > > That sort of calculator would be terrific. Uhmm.... for a sophisticated calculator with several screen lines I'm very happy with my 48GX. With sophisticated I mean RPL programing, many many commands, graphics, etc... Many time and efforts for learning the calculator and developing sofware. I would like a classic only numeric RPN scientific calculator like 15c (keystroke programming)... There is no accounting for tastes... ==== > An HP52, same shape and size as the HP42, maybe slightly longer to > accommodate a 3-4 stack display. Same quality keyboard, but with a > better rechargeable lithium backup than the HP42. 2-way IR and 4-pin > serial port. 128kb memory. Same User-RPL as the 48/49, or keystroke > programming option. Inexpensive. > > That sort of calculator would be terrific. Having 3-4 stack it seems a hp48 (more or less) so, yes, it is a terrific calculator :-) Anyway, I am agree that a hp52 (updated hp42s) would be a great machine.. Let's see what hp9s and 9g offer... J.Manrique Users Club from Gij.97n http://www.etsiig.uniovi.es/asociaciones/clubusu #1077 HPCC Member http://www.hpcc.org ==== If your going to have the 48/49 User-RPL I'd keep the dynamic stack. I could do without the 48/49 graphing display if it had the HP42 formfactor and keyboard. Stephen.N > > What about production quality, which was also a hallmark of HP? I think it > > would be cool to produce an entry level Scientific/Engineering calculator > > that is a cross between the 42 and 48 with a 3 or 4 level stack and 2-D > > graphics -- the multi-line stack display makes learning RPN very easy. > > > > G Savage > > > > I totally agree !!!! > > An HP52, same shape and size as the HP42, maybe slightly longer to > accommodate a 3-4 stack display. Same quality keyboard, but with a > better rechargeable lithium backup than the HP42. 2-way IR and 4-pin > serial port. 128kb memory. Same User-RPL as the 48/49, or keystroke > programming option. Inexpensive. > > That sort of calculator would be terrific. ==== Something along the lines of the HP27 (I think) would be good. ==== I have my apprehensions about their introduction of an updated financial calculator. Update what? The 10BII? Why, when they just introduced it a year ago. The 19BII? Perhaps, since that case & parts must be getting difficult to make and obtain. The HP-12C? Do they really want an uproar from the financial community over this? I don't think so. Perhaps kill off the 10BII and the 19BII entirely and come out with a low end model that can actually compete against the excellent TI BAII Plus (for $30 the thing even does hyperbolic trigs!) and also come out with a different higher end model. Mistakes to avoid...these would signal, IMO, that HP has learned NOTHING from their past mistakes... 1) Do not introduce a business calculator unless it has the ability to evaluate 1+2x3 to be equal to 7, without parentheses. HP must put an AOS mode rather than just chain logic on any algebraic calculator. Parentheses are not enough. Make this mistake and it will sell very poorly. 2) Do not skimp on features and functions. Include trig. Include combinations/permutations. Even on the low end calculator. Come out with a low end financial that will actually COMPETE with the BAII Plus or my suggestion would be...don't bother. Why waste your time coming out with a $40 calculator that does much less than the $30 TI model? Gene -- * All opinions herein expressed are mine and * * mine alone. You may choose to ignore them * * but I own them. * > In message , Richard Garner > >Has anyone got any information on weather HP is still in the calculator > >business? The HPCC Conference this past weekend was to have reps from > >HP to give the definitive answer to that, but so far no on is saying > >anything. > > Summarising from the notes I took at HP's presentation: > > They are still in the calculator business but have only just restarted > [so don't expect any great shakes soon]. They have a roadmap for the > an updated financial model in Spring '03. New high-end scientific and > high-end financial models won't appear until Summer/Autumn '03. > > They warned that the first product out of the starting gate will be a > clone type calculator. Future models would feature unique HP designs. > > They are definitely calculator focussed rather than PDA + calculator > software as this type of product belongs to another division. > > They acknowledged that RPN is what differentiates their products and > they have no intention of dropping it. However algebraic capability has > to be there in order to sell at all. > > A suggestion from the floor was to introduce an RPN 4-banger - something > that I have seen requested in this group a number of times. It was > backed up by a maths teacher who added that the biggest obstacle in > introducing RPN to older students is that they are too set in their > ways. A simpler model introduced at an earlier age would do wonders. I > can see the logic in this and I think HP do too. > > They didn't really have a presentation as such beyond the roadmap (+ > some ideas about how to reduce supply chain and distribution costs > inherent in the old ways of producing and selling calcs) and took > questions. > > My opinion: it looks good - they appear to know what they are doing and > have some good guys working in the group (called, incidentally, the > Emerging Technologies Group). I am confident that they - as individuals > - are in this for the duration, know what calculators are and aren't > afraid to make something that they think will be cool for engineers as > well as appealing to the mass, i.e. student, market. However, they are > still a very small group in a very large company and things can change > overnight through no fault of their own. > > > -- > Bruce Horrocks > Hampshire > England > bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== Bruce Horrocks escribi.97 en el mensaje > They warned that the first product out of the starting gate will be a > clone type calculator. Future models would feature unique HP designs. Can you explain me this a little? ==== In message , R Lion > >Bruce Horrocks escribi.97 en el mensaje > >> They warned that the first product out of the starting gate will be a >> clone type calculator. Future models would feature unique HP designs. > > >Can you explain me this a little? We all know that the HP-6S is a clone of a Texet Albert or whatever it's called. This is because they are made by the same no-name company in China that contracts to make them for Texet and HP. I'm told that if you take them apart, even the circuit board labelling is the same. The first new model will be produced in a similar way - i.e. non-exclusively so you could see virtually identical models on sale under someone else's name. However, HP realise that this is not the way to go. So future high-spec models will be manufactured under contract but exclusively to HP and more to HP's design. This is what I describe as being HP unique. -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== Bruce Horrocks escribi.97 en el mensaje > I didn't know that about the 6s. (Really, I know nothing about algebraic hp calculators...) so now, I understand your previous post. I'm one of those that hope a new good numeric RPN calculator from hp. ==== X > an updated financial model in Spring '03. New high-end scientific and > high-end financial models won't appear until Summer/Autumn '03. > > They warned that the first product out of the starting gate will be a > clone type calculator. Future models would feature unique HP designs. > > They are definitely calculator focussed rather than PDA + calculator > software as this type of product belongs to another division. > > They acknowledged that RPN is what differentiates their products and > they have no intention of dropping it. However algebraic capability has > to be there in order to sell at all. X Well - a dull Xmas then :-( It seems that my sources have been drained. The high-end model info release at this early stage was a shock to me, but it seems that we have to wait almost a year for the good new RPN/ALG models to appear. Nothing earth shaking, but I'm gonna buy a new financial model then... Veli-Pekka ==== > The high-end model info release at this early stage > was a shock to me, but it seems that we have to wait almost a year > for the good new RPN/ALG models to appear. Well, scientific and financial ones. No mention of any graphing calcs? Almost a year - you know how the HP49G software was, when released? Almost a year is NOT enough time to develop an advanced calculator from scratch. > Nothing earth shaking, but I'm gonna buy a new financial model then... Not me. I've had it with HP - they ditch the ACO, just to start the ETG? Right... ==== << Almost a year - you know how the HP49G software was, when released? Almost a year is NOT enough time to develop an advanced calculator from scratch. >> Well,i hope that they have started to work on those calculators since over a year. Additionnaly,as they don't have to use the overarchaic saturn CPU,i hope that they would use a CPU powerful enough to enable C/C++ developpement. I wonder what O.S they will use. << > Nothing earth shaking, but I'm gonna buy a new financial model then... Not me. I've had it with HP - they ditch the ACO, just to start the ETG? Right... >> Apparently and it is very sad. I hope that the ETG is as skilled as the ACO. However,i doubt that any team could be as dedicated as the ACO. ==== > I hope that the ETG is as skilled as the ACO. > However,i doubt that any team could be as dedicated as the ACO. Based on the talk they gave, and their answers to audience questions, I think they'll be just as dedicated as ACO. It remains to be seen how skilled they are. But the big problem is the size of the team. HP's gone from over a thousand people working on calculators (Corvallis), to a hundred (ACO), to perhaps ten (ETG). Even if they had the best ten engineers on the planet, it would be hard for them to match HP's past accomplishments in a reasonable amount of time. On the other hand, it is definitely true that there exist much better development and debugging tools now than in the past, especially if they use a mainstream processor instead of something proprietary, so engineering can be a fair bit more productive. I'm certainly hoping that they make some great products, but I'm also retaining a fair bit of skepticism. ==== It seems these are all dreams. Nice ones, I have to admit. In another posting from today it was stated that for future calcs, HP only specifies the design. The inner values like Hardware, Operating System, etc. are provided by some Chinese company. There seems to be a chance not to drop RPN, but I wouldn't bet on it;-) Raymond BTW: I wouldn't take the 49G keyboard layout as template. The 42S, and especially the 17BII showed how a perfect keyboard layout can be in mid-range calcs. For high-end ones I'd prefer the layout of the HP-48GX. It's more natural for RPN calc users. Timit.8e Hassan schrieb im Newsbeitrag > << > Almost a year - you know how the HP49G software was, when released? > Almost > a year is NOT enough time to develop an advanced calculator from > scratch. > >> > > Well,i hope that they have started to work on those calculators since > over a year. > Additionnaly,as they don't have to use the overarchaic saturn CPU,i > hope that they would use a CPU powerful enough to enable C/C++ > developpement. > I wonder what O.S they will use. > > << > > Nothing earth shaking, but I'm gonna buy a new financial model then... > > Not me. I've had it with HP - they ditch the ACO, just to start the > ETG? > Right... > >> > > Apparently and it is very sad. > I hope that the ETG is as skilled as the ACO. > However,i doubt that any team could be as dedicated as the ACO. > <7yAk9.34$l7.12279@reader1.news.jippii.net> <5aFk9.32637$Qk5.1394838@news010.worldonline.dk> ==== >Well, scientific and financial ones. No mention of any graphing calcs? There was - it was only me being not very precise as I was using scientific to mean graphing as well. The Aug '03 scientific releases will be graphing calcs aimed at students. (One less capable, one more capable. They didn't say exactly what the differentiator would be but high-school versus college seems a reasonable guess.) -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== all ACO personnel to the ETG? Part of the initial trouble, I have been led to believe, that ACO encountered was starting a great deal from scratch. Why will ETG be any different? Gene -- * All opinions herein expressed are mine and * * mine alone. You may choose to ignore them * * but I own them. * > Not me. I've had it with HP - they ditch the ACO, just to start the ETG? > Right... > > ==== > all ACO personnel to the ETG? When you don't know what to do, reorganize. It keeps people busy and fools the stockmarket, for a while. --tim ==== I think the reason the ACO was canned was because they said they knew what the consumer wanted and then failed to deliver. When HP got the complaints, they had to do something to make things right. If I wanted a TI look/work-a-like (Clone), I would buy a TI. I don't, I want an HP in the tradition, standard and reliability of an HP, that is what the consumer wants. You can't sell calculators like sneakers. Changing the color, making it out of cheap parts and making it look like your competitor is not the way to treat loyal consumers or to get new one and keep them. move > > all ACO personnel to the ETG? > > When you don't know what to do, reorganize. It keeps people busy and > fools the stockmarket, for a while. > > --tim > ==== Hard to argue with this, I'm afraid. The designers can say all they want about how TI succeeds with this type of calculator look, but apparently HP consumers do not want this, or at least, the TI consumers HP tried to appeal to do not want an HP that looks like the TI they really want. Still think several things sealed this fate and wonder if the new folks will fix it or suffer the same way... 1) Pitiful documentation 2) Buggy initial release 3) Physical packaging (keyboard type, screen cover scratchiness, etc.) Your statement If I wanted a TI look/work-a-like (Clone), I would buy a TI says it all. HP don't make this mistake again! Please. Gene -- * All opinions herein expressed are mine and * * mine alone. You may choose to ignore them * * but I own them. * > I think the reason the ACO was canned was because they said they knew what > the consumer wanted and then failed to deliver. When HP got the complaints, > they had to do something to make things right. If I wanted a TI > look/work-a-like (Clone), I would buy a TI. I don't, I want an HP in the > tradition, standard and reliability of an HP, that is what the consumer > wants. You can't sell calculators like sneakers. Changing the color, > making it out of cheap parts and making it look like your competitor is not > the way to treat loyal consumers or to get new one and keep them. > > move > > > all ACO personnel to the ETG? > > > > When you don't know what to do, reorganize. It keeps people busy and ==== Welcome to the newsgroup! ;-) Looking for some cool SYSEVAL's? Jim Donnelly (member of the HP38G design team) maintained a great FAQ list. Unfortunately, the game's over now. There was a mirror somewhere but I can't find it. I'll send you my copy. Wishing to impress folks? Try RULES, HELPWITH RULES, and SYSEVAL 171591 Anything you have, please upload it to www.hpcalc.org Graphic objects are very welcome. Hmm, I think I could help with this ... I remember a False Clear program for the 48 ... it wouldn't be too hard to port ... Try www.hpcalc.org again. Or this other excellent site: http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/ Belgian? There's a club in Belgium dedicated to HP calculators (not sure whether it's interested in the 38G): PCX BELGIUM Kan Davidstraat 17, Oostkamp, 8020, Belgium Hope this helps. other hidden stuff in the next DATAFILE, the magazine of HPCC members. (www.hpcc.org) give you the factorial of this number in about 4.2 secondes. But if you need factorial of 300 again, and you feed the program again with 300, it will answer in 0.081 seconds. That because it modifies its own code in a way, that it knows the results once it calculated them. ==== Hmm.. if you calculate many (different) factorials using this program then the quicker result is not guaranteed!! That's because you're saving all your results in two lists then you use POS to check whether the factorial has been calculated before, in which case you just GET the result from 'fl'. If nl and fl become very big (say nl contains all numbers from 0 to 1000 :-) ) then the execution time becomes very long for the very last element in nl (still may be faster then '!') and MFACT become VERY BIG!! Although this a caveat in this program, this has (I think) opened a new domain for programers to create all sorts of interesting polymorphic creatures that may one day inhabit our HP49s..(very cool games that change their behaviour and become very unpredictable) __ Kamel, who is very pleased! ==== Well, indeed this is not the ultimate algorithm for speeding up factorial calculation of big numbers. But the possible use of this behavior is exciting. You can construct programs with a very complicated behavior, starting with some easy rules of modifying their own code. And this doesn't only cover the area of games. Think for example of programs that learn more and more every time they run. What if they also have the code to combine the units of knowledge? Nick units that are still capable of evolving in dependance of what they experience through their lives. Nick P.S. Sounds like SciFi but this is a good thing to say, when someone asks, what the HP can do, that the TI can't. ;-) body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) Most programmers would be fired for writing that way today. But on a not real fast calculator cpu with so little memory, why not? Barry think) opened a polymorphic games that programs HOME just code as variable into port construct new tasks. But need closed they someone for RAM by some weird trick, then I'll do it. And if someone wants to fire me, here I am. Fire me and good luck! We should think about the following: The processor speed, the RAM, the disk memory and everything else goes higher at fantastic speeds. The performance of software doesn't. Could it be that we missed something, talking always about maintainable code? This is *not* an attack to any person out there. It is only what I have experienced, that make me wonder if we are really doing the right thing, when we supress creativity in the name of slogans. Nick body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) programmers just out of college. And we had lots of those. I think my early stuff was better, cleaner and more straightforward but only a few of the new guys could handle it comfortably. They had to learn to read the code to understand it and not just the comments. This wasn't easy for some of them. Companies like that one are hiring programmers who understand business and can do some simple programming. They play the numbers. They know that there'll be a few talented ones for the projects that need them. And they know that the rest understand their business problems. If you want people like that to be able to understand your code you have to make it hold their hand a little. It's just the way the world is going. I'm glad I retired. The fun was going out of computers. :) Barry and years those maintainable very hungry wants to RAM, the The something, I right can then to be could wasn't the But on message interesting the in the because its don't what ==== code) you can find it here http://groups.google.com/groups?q=harmless+user+rpl+virus&hl=en&lr=&group= comp.sys.hp48&safe=off&rnum=1&ic=1&selm=5fol15%24fln%40cyber.tn.tudelft.nl it copies itself into other programs just like a virus -- This message was written entirely with recycled electrons Pivo body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) to computers but I understand why it is and if we lose the beauty of programming something else will come along to challange the next generation. Mode I always wondered at the people who wanted software to think for them. I thought it should be an extenion of the mind, not a replacement for thinking. A few months ago I bought a digital camera. Knowing nothing about them I did some reading and finally settled on a camera that has lots of options that I can learn to use but I don't have to care about them if I don't want to. I wasn't sure if I wanted to or not. I haven't learned anything about the camera beyond point and push the button. I'm finding that I'm an end user with cameras and I'm just as lazy as the end users I used to wonder about. :) Barry But, Barry, you are talking about the camera from the user side, who indeed doesn't have to know exactly what happens behind the scenes. I admit that nobody who buys a refrigerator has also to know about thermodynamics. What I was ment was the programmer or, to stay in our refrigerator example, the engineer who made it. If some refrigerator engineer finds a weird way to reduce energy consumption, a way that is hard to understand but effective, then the refrigerator user is happy because of the lower costs, no matter if other engineers can easily understand, how the darn thing works. And if they claim to be engineers, then they should sit down with smoking heads and study it again and again, until they know what happens. To return to software, don't you think that the efficiency of software nowadays goes down and down? How else can we explain, that a 4MHz calc is able to do fast multitasking (ShellOS for the HP48) and elsewhere you need 1GHz? It must be the software and its inflatory design. Though of course I must admit, that the calc has not to do so many ==== Good luck Is Nick Karagiaouroglou an alias for Veli-Pekka Nousiainen? Or have you just inherited his auto-reply mode? :-) -- This message was written entirely with recycled electrons Pivo Coventry. To speak for my self, this group is not the same without Veli-Pekka. Hmmm, I am watching this group since its very beginning, when the HP48SX came out. Until now I hardly said anything, just watched. (The silent smoker, HP48GX-files...) But the lack of documentation for the hp49g plus so many questions from beginners plus the enthousiasm of people like Veli-Pekka, turned me to an auto-replier. Very suddenly, in one second ;-) And something else about auto-reply mode. I tried to post this message before one hour and Google said: No, no, no. Try later. To many posts from your address guy, we want to prevent commercial use. So I think, Nick P.S. Perhaps we all together do some kind of letany for having Veli-Pekka (and his jokes) back here? body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) installed. It makes the real world seem like a cheap imitation. There's a rumor that Lockheed is trying to make their airplanes MSFS 2000 compatible. :) Barry message it able to skilled of world respect beauty next Praying for about has care push I'm World! who scenes. I our refrigerator that is happy easily it software calc elsewhere many group, we have GHz and GByte and everything else. I wonder though, what would be the performance of programs, if they had the resourses of today and were programmed with execution speed in mind. I think they would reach performance rates that we didn't even dream of. I mean, if the HP49 with its 4MHz can do such marvelous things, then what would be possible on the big machines? But then again, perhaps I am to biased towards speed. ==== There are ways to convert local time to the matching sideral time. If you put that into a program then you can get the current sideral time just by executing the program by pressing it's softkey. Do you really need the sideral time displayed continually? -- john R. Latala jrlatala@golden.net ==== Type this: << CLLCD @ clear screen OFF @ turn off calculator Name 1 DISP @ display name on first row 0 WAIT @ wait for key DROP Turn on user mode. ==== Write a little program like: << OFF name 1 DISP phone 2 DISP 1 WAIT or: << OFF name 1 DISP phone 2 DISP 1 FREEZE and with either on level 1 of the stack, enter: 91.3 ASN and turn the user keys on, voila.... Caspar -- them. on my :2 2 :3 3 :4 4 Can I get these to line up as below? The stack appears to be backward from my HP48GX in which stack level numbers are in reverse order Same inputs above look like the following for HP48GX ??? 4: 1 3: 2 2: 3 1: 4 I then dropped 4 and edited 2 to look like232 on HP49G stack looks like : 232 232 ? What is going on here? mmstat ==== > I followed manual directions but stack still doesn't appear numbered 4 > 3.2.1. Can someone give directions please. I just got this HP49G. Why don't you follow the advice already given by Bernd and R Lion? ==== > > Why don't you follow the advice already given by Bernd and R Lion? Express? ==== Seen: > why don't I see the Bernd's post with my Outlook Express? News is a kind of broadcast service; not all of it reaches all ISPs; in fact, our local ISP used to capture only about half the posts in this group; then they contracted out to a big newsfeeds company instead (and even that goliath misses some that appear elsewhere). Google gets most everything, though. The arrival sequence also varies, according to different routes which messages follow between original senders and world-wide recipients; replies sometimes appear before original questions in some cases. -[]- . ==== > Express? used in the subject line, so no language bugs in OE should prevent you from seeing it. A number of things can be the cause: - There is a problem with synchronization of outgoing news data from Austria, ingoing news data to Spain, or somewhere on the way. - Your news server has crashed, and data will be rebuilt. - The news server you use is not updated yet, but will be shortly. I vote for the last option. ==== mmstat escribi.97 en el mensaje > I followed manual directions but stack still doesn't appear numbered 4 > 3.2.1. Can someone give directions please. I just got thiis HP49G. I see you have chaged of calculator yet... Just select RPN instead Algebraic in Modes input form (press key MODE) ==== Maybe you are in Algebraic - Mode ! Switch to RPN Mode by : Mode - Key -> Algebraic Mode (use now th2 +/- key to change to RPN Mode) and press the OK Key ! HTH Bernd mmstat schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I followed manual directions but stack still doesn't appear numbered 4 > 3.2.1. Can someone give directions please. I just got thiis HP49G. > > ==== I'm trying to make a file with some notes on my computer and transfer them to my HP49G. I tried creating a text file in notepad and transferring it over but I got an error message. Carmen ==== > I'm trying to make a file with some notes on my computer > and transfer them to my HP49G. > I tried creating a text file in notepad and > transferring it over but I got an error message. The terminology (this is text, so I'll download in ascii mode) can lead us, in this case, to do the opposite of what works. Transferring with Kermit in ascii mode acts like just typing from the keyboard, which gets compiled and syntax-checked, expecting data or programs, so it doesn't process any old text (the same goes for the 49G text editor application, which is for editing data or programs, *not* for editing general text!) On the other hand, binary transfer (Kermit or Xmodem) downloads every byte, unchanged, directly into the calc, and will actually download any computer file at all, as a string. But here's another way, which even removes the useless carriage return characters which PCs still put at the end of every line: Computer file: %%HP: T(3); C$ $ [follow with any text at all, any number of lines, no quoting needed] It also now doesn't care what transfer mode Kermit was set to, because the %%HP: ... ; found at the beginning of the file tells HP48/49 Kermit to use ascii mode anyway, the T(3) tells it to translate some things and to remove carriage return characters, and the syntax C$ $ tells the compiler to make one string out of all the rest of the file. ((o)) . ==== Carmen > How about storing a short string like a short string > to a variable, say 'text.txt' in your calculator > and then transferring that to your PC. > You may then in your PC examine the first line > of your file - a header - where you will find the information > necessary for the text file transmission to the calc. > You this file as a template for any further transmissions. > Good luck! > > I'm trying to make a file with some notes on my computer and transfer > > them to my HP49G. I tried creating a text file in notepad and > > transferring it over but I got an error message. > > Carmen > > ==== >Any idea ? I should add that I upgraded to Ver 1.19-6 beta... >hank's in advance, >Herve I am not sure about the definitions in mathematics, but I agree I have generally seen the result of INT truncated to the next lower integer. On the 49G you have more specific control wih FLOOR and CEIL, giving the next lower integer and next higher integer specifically. IP (integer part) seems to give just that, the signed integer part of the input. Bill alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) ==== thank's to you I am now discovering CEIL... Herve 20021007162957.15625.00000763@mb-cv.aol.com... > > >Any idea ? I should add that I upgraded to Ver 1.19-6 beta... > >hank's in advance, > >Herve > > I am not sure about the definitions in mathematics, but I agree I have > generally seen the result of INT truncated to the next lower integer. On the > 49G you have more specific control wih FLOOR and CEIL, giving the next lower > integer and next higher integer specifically. IP (integer part) seems to give > just that, the signed integer part of the input. > Bill > alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please > (Use the obvious) ==== >>Zin(l)=Zo*(Zl+i*Zo*tan(b*l))/(Zo+i*Zl*tan(b*l)) > > [...] > >>I defined this as a function, actually, with b*l as the argument of the >>function, so it is zin(bl). > > > So we have 'Zin(bl)=Zo*(Zl+i*Zo*tan(bl))/(Zo+i*Zl*tan(bl))', where i is the > complex number 'SQRT(-1)'. > > >>With Zo=50 and Zl=200-i100, >>nSolve(imag(zin(2pi*x))=0,x)|x>0 and x<.25 >>fails to give a correct result. Note, x < 0.25, not 25. -- ____________________________________ Christopher R. Carlen Principal Laser/Optical Technologist Sandia National Laboratories CA USA crcarle@sandia.gov ==== > Note, x < 0.25, not 25. Yes, sorry. Same procedure as before - the HP49G solves it fine. ==== Sorry this is off topic, just wanted to know if anyone have the 49G ==== I've tried, but after start it has some problems to find kmi and emu.rom files... but at least it starts.. I haven't played much with it. J.Manrique http://www.asturlinux.org/~jsmanrique Users Club from Gij.97n http://www.etsiig.uniovi.es/asociaciones/clubusu #1077 HPCC Member http://www.hpcc.org > Sorry this is off topic, just wanted to know if anyone have the 49G ==== Saturn will not compile, I get make: *** No rule to make target `saturn.man', needed by `saturn._man'. Stop. Any ideas? > > I've tried, but after start it has some problems to find kmi and > emu.rom files... but at least it starts.. I haven't played much with > it. > > > J.Manrique > http://www.asturlinux.org/~jsmanrique > Users Club from Gij.97n > http://www.etsiig.uniovi.es/asociaciones/clubusu > #1077 HPCC Member > http://www.hpcc.org > > > >>Sorry this is off topic, just wanted to know if anyone have the 49G > ==== > Sorry this is off topic, just wanted to know if anyone have the 49G Emu48 works just perfectly under wine. -- Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. ==== Anybody in this forum could say me how I can calculate a linear system command). -Dante. ==== for example : y'' + 2y' + y = e^(-x) You put the right side on stack (level 2 -> argument 1) exp(-x) the left side you can express as follows: x^2 + 2x + 1 (the 2nd derivate of y is now expressed as x^2, the 1st derivate as x and so on ...) After that Your stack should look like: 2: exp(-x) 1:x^2+2*x+1 LDEC press ENTER and you will get the result HTH Bernd Dante Aron.92 C. schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Anybody in this forum could say me how I can calculate a linear system > command). > -Dante. ==== Trying to run Calculo Numerico I 1.0 Beta but I guess I don't know how. I select the file and press eval but nothing happens, I see the memory usage goes up. Does any one know how to use this program? I have others that do the same thing - I know it is me and NOT the calculator. Any help would be appreciated. - Jamie ==== > > Which leads me to... does anyone know where I can get my hands on a PC > cable (since of course the 48 serial cable won't work). > > A bientot > Paul I made my own HP48 cable using a tiny 4-pin connector that's sold in electronics stores as a CD-ROM Audio Cable. When I got my HP49, I noticed that the four pins at the lower left are in the same order as the 48, and the little connector fits over them without touching any of the others. The rest of the cable, the PC end, came from a mouse. That means that it's nice and flexible. Since you can buy surplus mice for the equivalent of $5, and the CD-ROM cable for about $1, you get a PC cable for either the 48 or the 49 for about $6. Bill ==== Okay, so I lost my HP49 when it was stolen. That was careless inattention on my part. Dumb, dumb. So I set out to get another one, and discovered that they’ve vanished from Toronto. The university bookstores and various electronic stores didn’t even want to bother ordering one. Fortunately the Grand & Toy office supply store came to the rescue and had one in for me in three days. It was absurdly expensive at $325 Cdn, but at least I didn’t have to go through the hassle of And it turned out to be one of the newer Chinese models, with the serial starting with CN. It included the Advanced User’s Guide and a DB9 adapter for the serial cable. The keyboard is a little bit softer than the Indonesian model, but it still needs work. It ain’t no HP48. Instead of the glossy light blue finish, it’s now a pebbly light blue finish, which doesn’t make the tiny lettering any easier to read. On the plus side, the screen cover has no rainbow effect at all. The OS is still 1.18. On the back of the manual is a list of the features, and curiously, it says that the flash ROM is 1.25 megabytes. Sounds likes over-enthusiastic marketing - even after deleting the demo, it read only one meg. The advanced manual isn’t all that advanced. It spends far too many pages rehashing stuff from the regular manual, and it only covers the CAS commands - there’s almost nothing about the actual operation. And of course it’s out of sync with version 1.19-6. Sure nice to have it back, though. With the help of all the great software written by people on this newsgroup, I’ll soon have it the way HP should have done it in the first place. Bill ==== X > Instead of the glossy light blue finish, it’s now a pebbly light > blue finish, which doesn’t make the tiny lettering any easier to > read. On the plus side, the screen cover has no rainbow effect at > all. The OS is still 1.18. On the back of the manual is a list of > the features, and curiously, it says that the > flash ROM is 1.25 megabytes. Sounds likes over-enthusiastic marketing > - even after deleting the demo, it read only one meg. Well, with ROM 1.18 (which is the latest Commercial version) takes only 1MB - 64KB and leaves to you 1MB + 64KB give or take a few bytes. The new Beta 1.19-6 takes that extra half-slot away from you but gives in return quite a stable OS with a lot of enhancements If we are ever going to get the 1.19-7, it will be even better. Even the 1.19-5 was - compared to any previous HP top-model - enough bug-free to be a final release or Commercial 2.00 While 1.19-6 could have been 2.02 and the up-coming 1.19-7 I would rename to 2.04. Veli-Pekka ==== > > > In general , to show this type of graph you can graph a list of 2 functions, > > with one representing the negative roots and one the positive roots, eg: > > > > { y= v/X y= -v/X } > > > > to show both roots of SQR(X). > > Dennis > > But this doesn't work for z = f(x,y) and z = - f(x,y) and fast3d > graphs. You are right. You have to use the old wireframe plot type, or plot the positive branch with fast3d, press STO to put the plot on the stack, plot the negative branch (with the same settings), put the second plot on the stack and then press + to logically OR (superimpose) the two plots. Greetings, Nick. ==== The great and momentous Simulation vs. Emulation debate rages on! Prior competing definitions and historical references omitted, but just to add some more chaos to the above: http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=simulate http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=emulate http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=presently When I use a word, Humpty-Dumpty said, it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less - Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass... (1872) And I am right, and you are right, and all is right as right can be - W. S. Gilbert (The Mikado) . ==== The great and momentous Simulation vs. Emulation debate rages on! Prior competing definitions and historical references omitted, but just to add some more chaos to the above: http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=simulate http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=emulate http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=presently When I use a word, Humpty-Dumpty said, it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less - Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass... (1872) And I am right, and you are right, and all is right as right can be - W. S. Gilbert (The Mikado) . ==== How does one search all of comp.sys.hp48 for messages concerning a topic of interest. On HP49 I want to store a program entitled COLRED. When I press sto it says STO ERROR BAD ARGUMENT TYPE? What is wrong? mmstat ==== > How does one search all of comp.sys.hp48 > for messages concerning a topic of interest. For search: http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search?group=comp.sys.hp48 For help: http://groups.google.com/googlegroups/help.html For other info and useful tools and programs: http://www.hpcalc.org > I want to store a program entitled COLRED. > When I press STO it says STO ERROR: BAD ARGUMENT TYPE Assuming you are in RPN mode, the stack must look like this: 2: any object (your already-edited program, for example) 1: 'name' (must be quoted with ['] not []) Then press STO. BTW, have you looked through whatever manual and quick-ref guide came with your calc? The quick-ref guide shows arguments needed by commands, doesn't it? If you want to keep the program stored in user memory while you edit it, put an empty program << >> on the stack and store it; then use the 49G Filer to edit it, and keep storing it again from time to time, to save the changes you have already made (just as on a computer). ((o)) . ==== Try this link: http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=STO%20ERROR%20BAD%20ARGUMENT%20TYPE&s af e=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_ugroup=*hp48*&lr=&num=30&hl=en or go to www.deja.com and create a new search. > How does one search all of comp.sys.hp48 for messages concerning a topic of > interest. On HP49 I want to store a program entitled COLRED. When I press > sto it says STO ERROR BAD ARGUMENT TYPE? > What is wrong? > > mmstat > > ==== Well I have tried and tried and I cannot seem to get my HP49G to comm with a PC running Windows XP, windows 2000, nothing at all, I have checked settings, comm ports,etc. I am running PCconnectivity software and have tried hyper terminal. I am putting in server mode and matching config settings. Does anybody know what the secret is, I have had HP49G for 3 months and think its great but I want to get a hold of all the software that is available like I see my fellow students have with the HP48. HELP please Paul Young ==== > Well I have tried and tried and I cannot seem to get my HP49G > to communicate with a PC running Windows XP, windows 2000, > nothing at all, I have checked settings, comm ports,etc. > I want to get a hold of all the software that is available > as I see my fellow students have with the HP48. Try connecting your 49G to a fellow-student's HP48, with the supplied short 49G cable, and try to exchange some objects; if this doesn't work either, try getting a warranty exchange from HP. If transfer works between calculators but not between 49G and PC, check your calc serial number -- if it begins with ID93... then it may not work with various computers, and should also be exchanged by HP. The 49G Serial port bug explained in detail: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/serial.zip Good luck! ((o)) . ==== I am looking for an RPL compiler running over Windows 2000. The goal is to be able to practice RPL at the office without playing too visibly with my HP49G :-) I tried to run Emu48, but this is not that confortable. Any idea ? Herve ==== why are they so slow??? its not funny how slow they are, and omg graphing is as slow as can be. anyway to speed things up? also i hear hp49g has no infrared, so then why is there an infrared thingy on the top of the calc??? ==== > why are they so slow??? What is too slow? > its not funny how slow they are, and omg > graphing is as slow as can be. What are you trying to graoh, and how do you enter it? > anyway to speed things up? What do you want faster? > also i hear hp49g has no infrared, so then why is there an infrared > thingy on the top of the calc??? There isn't. ==== it should at least work on 1.18 and 1.19-6. Alain 3278e764.0210070204.7ae10191@posting.google.com... > What's your rom version of hp49 ? 1.19-6? > I'm glad to hear this good news. > Lomt ==== > > conditions... > Being a calculator lover doesn't mean that none of us can move around from > lack of muscular organs. > > I've been trained as an infantery officer, I've done my share of intensive > training and shooting (and i still run my 4KM under 12 minutes). I'm sure, you can run from avancing Germans even faster. By the way, why did you gave your Jews to Nazis ? Jack ==== > > That not exactly true. The subject of this post clearly states US not Bush. > > Then let it be said here that we (quite often) saying U.S. only mean > the current decision makers and not everything. Are you a communist ? The form we when one is talking was very popular in the politburo. It was an official soviet form when goverment was referring to their subjects. Also used in the past in the official language of the monarch. Also might be a sign of schizophrenia ;-) You seem to highly dislike Bush, which is OK. You have a right to hold such opinion. That doesn't mean the others also consider just him as a source of all the problems either real or imagined. If they do so, they clearly display even less brain than they claim Bush has. Current overhelming support for Bush clearly shows, what is the public opinion in US about it's goverment actions. > > Also assumption, that Bush is the bad guy would be naive. President > > Bush not only officially represents US nation, but in his most highly > > disliked by the greene-weene leftist crowd decisions he is extremally highly > > supported by the citizens. For example Kyoto treaty was rejected > > by US senate by 100 : 0 votes, and the senate majority happen > > to be held by the opposition. > > Which was a very wise decision if someone also thinks on such > unimportant issues like for example what we are going to breath > tomorrow. ;-) How about air been different from today about 30 ppm toward better condition for farming in the moderte and high latitudes, where most of the people live allowing plants that require level 3 of CO2 to prosper ? Could you, please quote some scientific numbers, how exactly Kyoto will change the chemical composition of the earth atmosphere 10,20 or 50 years from now ? You seem to be thinking about it, so I'm sure you are capable to make educated decisions about putting or not restrictions on the economy in order to maximize better society life in the future. Please, quote them here together with the scientific material used to confirm your theories. Skip greene religion. I don't belive in gaia GOD whatsoever. > The opposition to the evil of nazism didn't start at the U.S. Don't > you forget that. There is a land which carried approx. the whole > weight of the war for months. Soviet Russia :-) Congratulations of choice. > ( Let's leave in peace that unusual > british guys of the RAF who went smiling to their death. ) After that, > the U.S. government (correctly) decided to help. They (U.K.) fight, > and they fight alone...do you remember? Nonsense. You seem to be very limited in your historical knowledge. The first was Czechoslovakia if you consider Nazi Germany only (altogh in fact only Czech were the true occupied nation, Slovak created nazi goverment of their own) but in fact the first nation to fight axis was China since 1936, where the IIWW really started. US was supporting China since 1936 and England since 1940 materially, despite the US nation to be against the war. The French army was considered to be the strongest in the world at that time so clearly there if any intervention was needed it was French obligation to do so, not US. In 1939 US army was considered to be the strength of the Polish army crushed by Nazis and Russia in two weeks. > > Like Kosovo ? It was one of the most disliked ideas in US. > > Yes, and this perhaps is a good example for understanding that the two > things, the government and the people are *not* treted like one. I agree. For those crimes against Serbs only Clinton should be held responsible (together with some other European pliticians). > > There are countries independent from mideast oil, like Chad, Zimbabwe, > > Gabon, Rwanda. > > These countries are not the U.S. Duh. I give you an option to emigrate to those who are independent from the oil if you so strongly dislike dependence of the modern economy on the fossil fuel energy sources. Jack ==== > > > > That not exactly true. The subject of this post clearly states US not Bush. > > > > Then let it be said here that we (quite often) saying U.S. only mean > > the current decision makers and not everything. > > Are you a communist ? The form we when one is talking was very > popular in the politburo. It was an official soviet form when goverment was > referring to their subjects. Also used in the past in the official language > of the monarch. Also might be a sign of schizophrenia ;-) > > You seem to highly dislike Bush, which is OK. You have a right to hold > such opinion. Yeah! Right for an opinion! BUT now he's a communist (OR it might be a sign of schizophrenia ;-) THAT sounded like typical communist/nazi/US way of handling wrong opinions...so much for freedom. Bah! ==== > Yeah! Right for an opinion! > BUT now he's a communist (OR it might be a sign of schizophrenia ;-) > THAT > sounded like typical communist/nazi/US way of handling > wrong opinions...so much for freedom. > Bah! Nick really need the form We because you need some form of assurance, that you think like the rest of the crowd, so be it ;-) Going with the flow have it's benefits, so I can't really judge you that harsh. Jack ==== > > Which is the proof that the poor philanthropic government of the U.S. > wants our best but we bad guys only want to have this good government > removed, is that what you say? Finally you begin to understand! :) Barry ==== > > Did you see the footage then of food and medical supplies being > delivered to the Afghan people by US troops? Did you happen to see the > billions of dollars donated to middle-east countries to help them > strengthen their economy? How about when US industries supply their > allies with aircraft and radar systems so they can protect and monitor > their borders? When there are floods or other natural disasters, US > troops are often there assisting. I think your perception is > afflicted by a bit of tunnel vision. I think Americans want to do those things, sometimes for our own self interest and often because we just want to. But I think that banging them against the head of people in other countries to convince them we're the good guys is counterproductive. Let's just do what we do and keep our mouths shut about it. Let people form their opinions as they will. If those things are just part of our PR they'll not earn us much credit. And keep in mind that we're not the only country that does those things. We just happen to have more resources. Barry ==== > > Barry, noone has said anything here about the whole population of the > U.S. So there is no accusation which can be answered with We aren't > always good guys. I think that this we should be kept well > separated from the politics decisions. Actually some of the very best > guys I know are U.S. citizens and I am glad to know them. > > When we criticize, we criticize solely one particular decision, taken > by one (or some) paricular politician(s). The people themselves are a > completely different story. I understand that. I know none of this is personal. I often disagree with what this country does. I'm sometimes ashamed of the things we do. But it's still we who do them. We has become a common way of looking at things in the US in the past year. I think one of the most frightening things on Earth today is that there is one superpower. That might turn out ok but it's potentially a very dangerous situation. Barry ==== > > > > I think your definition of democracy has gotten more out of date > > than your palmtop. :) > > I do not possess a palmtop! I forgot which group I was in. :) > > Today democracy means we elect people to make important decisions > > for us and then we hold them accountable at the next election. It > > doesnt mean people rule directly. The name for that system is mob > > law. > > > > Barry > > 1.) It is not my definition of democracy. It is (was) *the* definition > of democracy before politicians distorted it beyond recognition. > (Greek history, you know ;-)) > > 2.) Outdated? Correct remains correct even after 3000 years, dear > friend. Words and meanings change. In college I had to write a paper explaining how, over the centuries, the meaning of the word fast changed from a description of speed to mean unable to move, as in tied fast. Long time ago and I don't remember the details. In fact I'm not sure it didn't evolve the other way. Something about vibration when holding something rigidly in position, I think. At that time the Oxford Engish Dictionary had 8 or 9 pages on the topic. > 3.) Mob law? OK, we have Mob law in Switzerland, thanks for this > information. In the 3 years which I spent in this land I din't realize As I said, I don't know the system in Switzerland. Do all the people make all the decisions all the time? If that's the case, I'm obviously wrong. Or are most policies instigated and implemented by politicians most of the time. Barry ==== X > > 3.) Mob law? OK, we have Mob law in Switzerland, thanks for > this > > information. In the 3 years which I spent in this land I din't > realize > > As I said, I don't know the system in Switzerland. Do all the > people make all the decisions all the time? If that's the case, > I'm obviously wrong. X It's not a black & white world, Rally ! ==== > Nick, > > > > made-up (ie false). Those things were never said by Mr. Bush or by > > > anyone that represents the US. > > > > Not explicitely said in public. But the decision *has* been taken. > > Unless you've been hanging out in Washington with Mr. Bush, I dont think > that you can say that for certain! At the same time, no one can say > anything to the contrary unless they're privy to such knowledge.. the > likes of which they wouldn't share with us anyway! Some things are more or less obvious. Nonetheless I wish that I were terribly wrong here. > > > Our friends at theonion.com know how the > > > international community feels about US interests in foreign (to the US) > > > affairs, and they are basically taking something with a little truth and > > > making it absurdly preposterous. > > > > No smoke without fire? > > More like a candle producing a volcanic cloud. It's been grossly > exaggerated. Volcanic cloud? Exaggeration. The U.S. government has s**ted on my had a dozen of times before. Also on the head of my people in Greece and also on the heads of the people in Turkey. So don't tell me that I exaggerate here! > > > My guess is that it was to take the > > > edge off and make people laugh. Obviously that wasn't what happened if > > > those things are readily believed by non-US residents. I find it > > > somewhat disheartening that this is the common perception of the US > > > outside US borders. > > > > Not perception of the U.S. It is the perception of this particular > > decision taken by these particular persons of this particular > > government. > > There is always someone that is not going to be happy with the way the > US conducts itself. You can't please everyone! Oh yes, for example those who wonder, why there are ships of the U.S. Navy in the mediterranean while you will not find any ship of the greek navy around your shores! And don't tell me that it is the greek government that wants that. I speak to you, not the greek government. Go ask our people how they think about such facts. And then wonder for yourself how it comes, that we, ordinary people, don't want that, but our government decides that the U.S. military presence is good! Do you think that this is a free decision? > I wonder if there are > Iraqi people who would like to see an oppressive regime removed? As I already said, those in Iraq who want the current regime to be removed are the most betrayed ones. The U.S. will *never* remove Saddam, not because it is impossible but because this would not be conform to the interests of the U.S. Bet? > Or if > there are neighbors to Iraq that would like to make *sure* this unstable > goverment doesn't have the ability to use nuclear weapons? Whose > opinions should the US be most sensitive to? First of all the current government of Iraq might be oppressive but it is *not* unstable. It has survived anything that has been done against it. Don't forget this in your syllogisms. The U.S. government isn't sensitive to any opinion but the own opinion. Think what would happened if Saddam would be removed. What would this mean for the U.S.? > > > The US works hard to be sensitive to the input of > > > European leadership and tries to do what is in our best interests and > > > the best interests of our allies. > > > > Really? What a philanthropic government! ;-) > > You jest, but the interests of US allies is a very serious matter in our > country just as it would be in any other. Here is our disagreement. You live in a country that hasn't been betrayed that way in recent times because it is a super power. But ask me, a greek, how often I have been sh**ted. And *then* say that the interests of US allies is a very serious matter. > > > I think a lot of the problem has to do with > > > media coverage of US politics. What you don't see is what goes on > > > outside of media coverage. I have first-hand experience with that, so I > > > can say these things with confidence. > > > > When I see what happens, bombings and other philanthropic actions, > > then I don't need the media. (Or I should believe that they say that a > > bombing has taken place where nothing happened???) > > Did you see the footage then of food and medical supplies being > delivered to the Afghan people by US troops? Did you happen to see the > billions of dollars donated to middle-east countries to help them > strengthen their economy? Which are then written in the black book of depts and bind countries for centuries? The whole matter of economical help is a big farse. The U.S. (and also Europe) *want* the current situation to continue and have a weak third world which can be manipulated with billions that don't help anybody. If there were ther real wish to solve such problem, then they would be solved in 5 to 10 years. > How about when US industries supply their > allies with aircraft and radar systems so they can protect and monitor > their borders? The model alone protect and monitor their borders manifests a ceratin way of thinking. Provoke problems to be able to sell weaponry. > When there are floods or other natural disasters, US > troops are often there assisting. I think your perception is > afflicted by a bit of tunnel vision. Exactly these are the kind of circumstances that used and abused to solidify the presence of troops that after floods and disasters can be used for other purposes. > > The U.S. isn't checked because the checkers would sooner or later > > be disappearead. Nobody checks a super power so easily. > > No, the US isn't checked because they aren't seen as a threat to > innocent people or a source of needless aggression. > > > > US financial interests that are threatened, > > > > Yes! > > As I said, the US has its faults (which is not exclusive to the US), but > senseless slaughter is not one of them. I don't believe that anybody that calculates minimum number of deaths has any sence about what the death of only one person means. Greetings, Nick. ==== So if the US were to pull out of the Middle East and out of Europe entirely, this would please you? If they permitted Saddam to use chemical weapons on his own people and other neighboring countries, this would be agreeable to you also? If nuclear war broke out in the middle east and western Europe, that would be okay with you? Would you be willing to go to Mr. Bush and other super-powers and say leave us alone, don't ever come back under any circumstance with full understanding that, if your country was ever in a bad spot (natural disaster, war, etc), that you would be at the mercy of nature / malicious regimes? Can you say that if Iraq or any other country decided to invade Greece tomorrow, that you'd be comfortable with the idea that Greece will be defending itself on its own? I wonder what the world would say if the US decided to hide in its little shell and let the rest of the world do as it will.. but I dont have to wonder long because the US has already been accused of that. Let's be frank here.. what the detractors of US foreign policy really want is to have US troops be at their beckon call, to send US troops to fight their wars, and then to send them all home when the threat is eliminated and their usefulness has expired. That's why the US takes flak for wanting to be neutral, but when they finally agree to take some action and they are no longer of any use, they're ungraciously sent home. And you wonder why the US selects its battles based on economic interests.. maybe because trying to be sensitive to the whims of the people who called upon US aid in the first place is an expensive proposition. Aaron ==== > So if the US were to pull out of the Middle East and out of Europe > entirely, this would please you? If they permitted Saddam to use > chemical weapons on his own people and other neighboring countries, this > would be agreeable to you also? If nuclear war broke out in the middle > east and western Europe, that would be okay with you? Would you be > willing to go to Mr. Bush and other super-powers and say leave us > alone, don't ever come back under any circumstance with full > understanding that, if your country was ever in a bad spot (natural > disaster, war, etc), that you would be at the mercy of nature / > malicious regimes? Can you say that if Iraq or any other country > decided to invade Greece tomorrow, that you'd be comfortable with the > idea that Greece will be defending itself on its own? I wonder what the X We Finns are ready to help Greece AND I'm sure that other EU nations like UK, France and Germany will surely _nuke_ the Iraq - if that's the only way. We don't need US to start WWIII and destroy the Earth. We are quite able to be foolish by ourselves!!! So yes - go away and never come back IF that's the only way to stop you invading, interfering and otherwise doing the things your way ONLY and kiss the UN (or EU) goodbye (or my a** !!) !! It's up to you and your arrogant behavior which far exceed the typical French style!!! ugh! ==== > That exactly, what US do want from Irak. Don't they ? If you believe that that you're clearly very naive. There's no doubt that the *official* reason is getting rid of some weapons that may exist. Even if Irak complied exactly to UN, US will still attack. They will just find some conditions impossible for Irak to accept (otherwise they lose face and dignity) to justify their actions. My personnal belief is that the US wants to get rid of their dependance with Saoudia Arabia. So far they can't because they are the main petrol provider. Once the current Irak's government has been ousted, some controlled by the CIA will be in place it will be much easier to manage the conflicting situation with SA. There are proof that Saoudia Arabia is the main and key financer of Al Qaeda. But now, they can't bite the hand that feed them ==== > > > That exactly, what US do want from Irak. Don't they ? > > If you believe that that you're clearly very naive. > There's no doubt that the *official* reason is getting rid of some weapons > that may exist. > Even if Irak complied exactly to UN, US will still attack. They will just > find some conditions impossible for Irak to accept (otherwise they lose face > and dignity) to justify their actions. > > My personnal belief is that the US wants to get rid of their dependance with > Saoudia Arabia. So far they can't because they are the main petrol provider. > Once the current Irak's government has been ousted, some controlled by the > CIA will be in place it will be much easier to manage the conflicting > situation with SA. There are proof that Saoudia Arabia is the main and key > financer of Al Qaeda. > But now, they can't bite the hand that feed them I have heard so many times in my many years that the US is going to overthrow some poor small country for their oil. The US has not done so yet and never will. The same reason was given during the Gulf War. This is a lame excuse. The US does not need the oil of Saudi Arabia. These two countries have been allies for reasons besides oil. There are many Central American countries and Russia that have vast oil reserves. So does the US! Saddam Hussein has tried to overthrow Iran and Kuwait. Who's next? If we (this includes you too) allow Saddam Hussein to obtain nuclear weapons, he will use them to hold Israel and Saudi Arabia hostage. He will not hesitate to make this weapons available to terrorist groups to use against my country and yours too. People need to pull their heads out of the sand, quit taking what these liberal newspapers and televisions are saying as the truth, listen to BOTH sides of the story and THEN come to a consensus. Do we have to wait to see a mushroom cloud in one of my or your cities to convince you that Saddam Hussein is an insane madman. When is that last time one of your leaders poisoned thousands of your fellow citizens? The world blames the US for the starvation of the children of Iraq after the Gulf War, but tell me how many billion dollar industrial complexes, that he chooses to call private palaces, has he built at the cost of billions of dollars. This man doesn't give a damn about the citizens of Iraq. And he doesn't give a damn about you or me either. You can bet the US is going to take this man out. Not just for the safety of the US, but the world. This has nothing to do with loosing facing or dignity. Of course, we can all walk around like a bunch of little school boys with our hands in our pockets, kicking cans and whistling in the air as if nothing is wrong.... Danny ==== > > > People need to pull their heads out of the sand, quit taking what these > liberal newspapers and televisions are saying as the truth, listen to BOTH > sides of the story and THEN come to a consensus. Sorry, Danny, that will never happen. French will always made up a reason, or belive in the most idiotic theroy just to hate US. Complex of geriatric empire, I guess. > Danny Jack ==== > > > That exactly, what US do want from Irak. Don't they ? > > If you believe that that you're clearly very naive. Nonsense. That is exactly what is going to happen and that is exactly why US is going to attack, because Saddam wont disarm himself. The rest is extra. > There's no doubt that the *official* reason is getting rid of some weapons > that may exist. See, now you thinking. > Even if Irak complied exactly to UN, US will still attack. They will just > find some conditions impossible for Irak to accept (otherwise they lose face > and dignity) to justify their actions. Precisely. UN already lost face 10 years ago. That is why US will not wait for UN this time. Their ally is not a big beliver in UN anyway. > My personnal belief is that the US wants to get rid of their dependance with > Saoudia Arabia. That is very naive theory (I hope, this is not your theory, but some idiot european journalist). US don't need to get rid of Saddam to buy his oil. He would be happy to sell it and he would never support Sudis exactly because, Saddam has little to do with Islam and rather hate Saudis. He loves money and regional power. > So far they can't because they are the main petrol provider. > Once the current Irak's government has been ousted, some controlled by the > CIA will be in place it will be much easier to manage the conflicting > situation with SA. There are proof that Saoudia Arabia is the main and key > financer of Al Qaeda. > But now, they can't bite the hand that feed them You can buy oil from Mexico, Namibia, Norway, Great Britain, Georgia, Azerbejdzan, Russia, Canada, etc., etc. Also it is much easier to attack Saudi Arabia than much stronger Irak. Your theory is very naive. > > Jack ==== > > > That exactly, what US do want from Irak. Don't they ? > > If you believe that that you're clearly very naive. > There's no doubt that the *official* reason is getting rid of some weapons > that may exist. > Even if Irak complied exactly to UN, US will still attack. They will just > find some conditions impossible for Irak to accept (otherwise they lose face > and dignity) to justify their actions. I agree. The US will attack anyway > My personnal belief is that the US wants to get rid of their dependance with > Saoudia Arabia. So far they can't because they are the main petrol provider. > Once the current Irak's government has been ousted, some controlled by the > CIA will be in place it will be much easier to manage the conflicting > situation with SA. There are proof that Saoudia Arabia is the main and key > financer of Al Qaeda. > But now, they can't bite the hand that feed them I agree again completely. Roman > > ==== > I've been trained as an infantery officer, I've done my share of intensive > training and shooting (and i still run my 4KM under 12 minutes). > Good. Then you can run the enemy to death ;-) --Lars Trained as an infantry NCO. ==== > > You are mistaken here. Remember a small land out there at the east of > the mediterranean? Now, open your history books, but go to the pages > before the US existed (oh, yes the world didn't start when the US were > formed ;-)) and look where and when democracy was invented. Also take > a look at the definition of democracy, that kind of regime the US and > almost the whole world still don't have. Then take a look at the > direct democracy in Switzerland. Some may argue here, that the first form of modern republic has been created after the French revolution in 1789... The US have nothing to be proud of regarding their democracy.. After all, Bush didn't win by the numbers the latest presidential election.. He's still the president... ==== > > > > > You are mistaken here. Remember a small land out there at the east of > > the mediterranean? Now, open your history books, but go to the pages > > before the US existed (oh, yes the world didn't start when the US were > > formed ;-)) and look where and when democracy was invented. Also take > > a look at the definition of democracy, that kind of regime the US and > > almost the whole world still don't have. Then take a look at the > > direct democracy in Switzerland. > > Some may argue here, that the first form of modern republic has been created > after the French revolution in 1789... Vive la revolution! (Correct my spelling if necessary) > The US have nothing to be proud of regarding their democracy.. Well, for current politics, I would dare saying something similar. But let's not forget that there were also people like Lincoln? > After all, > Bush didn't win by the numbers the latest presidential election.. He's still > the president... ??????? I thought that the weight factor for each vote gave him the job, as he had the luck to have many heavy votes. Is that wrong? Greetings, Nick. ==== > ??????? I thought that the weight factor for each vote gave him the > job, as he had the luck to have many heavy votes. Is that wrong? Not really. The number of people who voted for Gore was higher that the number of people who voted for Bush... Bush won by the number of states where he won.. ==== > > > ??????? I thought that the weight factor for each vote gave him the > > job, as he had the luck to have many heavy votes. Is that wrong? > > Not really. > The number of people who voted for Gore was higher that the number of people > who voted for Bush... > Bush won by the number of states where he won.. Florida he won therefore winning it all. It's nice to have good personnel counting votes ;-) The most slick and slimy always win in the US of A. :-P ==== > > > > > ??????? I thought that the weight factor for each vote gave him the > > > job, as he had the luck to have many heavy votes. Is that wrong? > > > > Not really. > > The number of people who voted for Gore was higher that the number of > people > > who voted for Bush... > > Bush won by the number of states where he won.. > > Florida he won therefore winning it all. > It's nice to have good personnel counting votes ;-) > The most slick and slimy always win in the US of A. > :-P US citizens choose the president indirectly. They are voting on electors in the electoral college who have pledged to a particular candidate. If the candidate wins by five votes of 500 votes he wins all the state's electoral votes. It is possible, and has happened on four occasions when a candidate has had fewer popular votes but still won the presidential election. Bush being the first since 1888. There have been several hundred proposals to change the system, but none have come close to passing for fear of it changing the party system or being replaced by a riskier system. Even good ol' Bill Clinton benefited from the electoral college. He only had 49 percent of the popular vote but got 69 percent of the electoral vote. It made him look like a big winner when all know he was a looser. :) danny ==== > > After all, > > Bush didn't win by the numbers the latest presidential election.. He's still > > the president... > > ??????? I thought that the weight factor for each vote gave him the > job, as he had the luck to have many heavy votes. Is that wrong? Weight factor? What's that? One person's vote counts higher than another's? Greetings, . ==== In the USA yes it is Julien 662e00ed.0210081003.26ad2f91@posting.google.com... > > > > After all, > > > Bush didn't win by the numbers the latest presidential election.. He's still > > > the president... > > > > ??????? I thought that the weight factor for each vote gave him the > > job, as he had the luck to have many heavy votes. Is that wrong? > > Weight factor? What's that? One person's vote counts higher than another's? > > Greetings, > . ==== X > > After all, > > Bush didn't win by the numbers the latest presidential election.. He's still > > the president... > > ??????? I thought that the weight factor for each vote gave him the > job, as he had the luck to have many heavy votes. Is that wrong? Recall the Florida votes disaster ??? Veli-Pekka - may the best cheater win - from Ape Darwin's book: Survival of the Shittest ;-) ==== I am curious on how other people store programs on their 49g. Also I am curious on how they store any notes associated with these formula - and pictures. I think it would be beneficial for a lot of people if some of us got together and built a library of common formula in a format that easy to use and makes it easy for people to learn these formula from the calculator. Any tips or tricks you have used with storing formula would be interesting. MC ==== > I am curious on how other people store programs on their 49g. Also I am > curious on how they store any notes associated with these formula - and > pictures. > I think it would be beneficial for a lot of people if some of us got > together and built a library of common formula in a format that easy to use > and makes it easy for people to learn these formula from the calculator. > Any tips or tricks you have used with storing formula would be interesting. Look at www.hpcalc.org. ==== Do you find it too much bother to deal with the kluge factor or details of INPUT, INFORM, etc. when wanting to ask for simple input in a casually written program? Here's a very simple, informal way to ask for input using a menu: { list of variable names } INMENU The screen displays white menu labels for the variables and says Type data, press key (data is both stored and displayed in the status area when you press). The last (black) menu key says OK; press it to resume the program that called INMENU. To display all visible labels and stored values at once, press right-shift cursor-down (review). Do whatever you wish with the stored values that you collect. INMENU was formerly posted using 30 MENU as its engine, but here's a simpler version, suggested by David Rankin: *HP49* version: << { { OK << 0. MENU CONT >> } } + TMENU #25EFFh SYSEVAL 2. ->HEADER Type data, press key PROMPT >> 'INMENU' STO *HP48* version: << { { OK << 0. MENU CONT >> } } + TMENU #151A6h SYSEVAL Type data, press key PROMPT >> 'INMENU' STO Please choose the version matching your calculator model, and always back up memory before using any syseval stuff! To make a version with an extra Cancl key in the menu: << { { CANCL << 0. MENU KILL >> } { OK << 0. MENU CONT >> } } + TMENU #NNNNNh SYSEVAL ... Type data, press key PROMPT >> 'INMENU' STO On HP48 you can replace CANCL with (AN(L to avoid truncating the L in the menu label, as is done in many internal 48G Inform/Choose/etc. menus. According to David Rankin, the HP28S already had a built-in feature which permitted creating a similar one touch menu to ask for input; if so, this feature seems to have disappeared from the HP48 and HP49: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=39BDB6B5.F04EBA84%40txucom.net Using SolvMenuInit (program is for *48* only!): http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=39BF0E6E.9E02CD7D%40txucom.net When *not* to use SolvMenuInit: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8pnvl9%24h8p%241%40nnrp1.deja.com [r->] [OFF] . ==== John H Meyers escribi.97 en el mensaje > Here's a very simple, informal way to ask for input using a menu: > > { list of variable names } INMENU The new command INMENU has been added to my personalized PRG / IN menu. ==== John H Meyers escribi.97 en el mensaje > > Actually, I keep my entire calculator in the emulator... I am not the only fool... > For the next update of Emu48/49, perhaps Christoph might just add > a Hot Sync button to make it complete :) Yes, please. ==== Does anyone know the status of hp.calc.org? When I tried to download a program I got a message currently down. Are the mirror sites working? Also when I finally get a response and used Gozilla to download a file it keeps trying,but never connects. Harold A. Climer Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy U. Tennessee at Chattanooga