B12 ==== > Hope that you can get all curves you want now > > >Including elliptic ones? Feminine ones? And then command ANIMATE ==== hi, would this be the wrong newsgroup to ask a very simple question about HP Basic or UserRPL? i've RTFMed user's guide but i can seem to quite pinpoint the logical bug in the program. if this is not the place to ask, where should i ask? thanks! -- design: http://www.dna-collective.tk/ urban: http://www.assault.tk/ ==== Just write it here, please! > hi, > would this be the wrong newsgroup to ask a very simple question about > HP Basic or UserRPL? > i've RTFMed user's guide but i can seem to quite pinpoint the logical > bug in the program. if this is not the place to ask, where should i ask? > thanks! -- > design: http://www.dna-collective.tk/ > urban: http://www.assault.tk/ ==== > [10K sniveling sermon snipped] There was one paragraph of the notion of general principles at the begining, vaguely adapted from quotes of Einstein and Fuller, then there was 10K devoted to analysis of the thread's topic, about which you made no comment, plus some quotes at the end, ranging from past philsophers to Flanders and Swan (humorists). > I hope that soon you'll be able to remove that huge yellow > stripe running down your back. Forgive Father Horn, for he knows not what he says or does > Come on, John; do you REALLY believe (as you said) > that all arguments that disagree with you are rationalizations? How many see this same interpretation of Joe's in the only place that I used this quoted word, that in this world, opposing sides are locking horns in conflict and attacking each other, each rationalizing all the while that it is the only way to deal with the situation? How many have had actual life experience in which, during the throes of emotion, you also found yourself convinced that there was only one possible way to act, yet after the crisis passed and you cooled off, you came to feel otherwise, in retrospect? But if you, Joe Horn, see a different world picture, why waste time reviewing (or reinterpreting) mine, especially if you see nothing useful in it; why not just speak for yourself and set forth your own life experience, along with the wisdom you have learned from it? And when you compose your language of expression, try pretending that the Holy Father himself is in the audience; this may help to increase the dignity of the presentation. > No man escapes when freedom fails. > The best men rot in filthy jails. > And those who cried Appease! Appease! > Are hanged by those they sought to please. Show me a scintilla of connection to anything I have actually said in all my years of writing, either in public or in private, or to anything represented by my university (which I do not represent when writing for myself), other than that whose source is solely the hot-blooded projection of your own presumptions, whose source resides wholly in your imagination. You are not exactly quoting Christ either, are you? Have you ever seen actual reunions of people who were once facing each other in bitter battle, from U.S. Civil War reunions to a TV series which once brought together GIs and Germans or GIs and Japanese who fought each other in WWII, or have you ever had a reunion with someone with whom you had a bitter fight? (including parents, children, siblings, spouses, friends, enemies). If both parties survived, and if something now relates their souls more in connection than in opposition, what has happened, what distinguishes the original situation from the later one? Is it that one (the good) has successfully beaten down and crushed the other (the bad), after which there is no more future re-ignition of old hatred? Is it that something has grown in each one, which if it had only already grown earlier to the same state, might have rendered unnecessary the joint battering which they meanwhile rendered to each other? (perhaps by neutralizing the hatred or harm that the more hateful or harmful one was infused by or acting from, if scorekeeping be deemed important, or perhaps it is sufficient, when all of this is past, to just count the final state that has been arrived at). How about an analogy with a cancer, let us say, which we can, sometimes, beat down by surgical removal or chemotherapy, although usually at the same time the surviving patient undergoes quite a trauma himself/herself in the process, and other times even succumbs during the process. Suppose it can come to be known how to arrest or prevent cancer, either through immunization or drugs or genetic intervention, or any other, not yet even contemplated means, which doesn't simultaneously inflict such trauma upon the patient; if we knew such means, would we keep on using the more traumatic, self-injuring procedures? You and I may be familiar with and have formed the habit of relying on those procedures, but it might be useful, instead of clinging to them, to be actively looking for those which must supplant them, if life is to improve in total quality, for to do so is bound to hasten the day of arrival of that knowledge, from wherever it may come. I'm especially surprised that being a religious man (or representative, if only that) does not improve the disposition to know that such better knowledge exists, for that is what I hear the scriptures really say, although perhaps their current custodians do not really believe in them. I don't know what age I was when I first was shown how to experience the fact that there is quite a significant blind spot right within the field of vision of each eye; never before had there even been a clue, even though this hole had been there all my life, but when one, simple experiment revealed it, suddenly it couldn't have been more obvious. Many other simple discoveries are available just this easily, including experience of the source of one's own consciousness, but until this simple experiment is actually performed, we still have an unrealized blind spot in the midst of our awareness, about which we know nothing. I have always expected the analogy with other forms of rest, even sleep, to be easily picked up on by everyone, for we all ought to have experienced how great a change is wrought in all aspects of our experience, our health, our behaviour, our creativity, our happiness, just by tilting the balance between rest and activity in our lives, even by a small change when it is at a critical point. Even in today's news, the fact that U.S. interrogators wake detainees up (or keep them awake) at all hours to question them is held to be a brutal treatment (somewhat verified by its universal employment by effective inquisitioners throughout the world), yet it remains an obstacle to convince anyone that a deeper rest than the deepest stage of ordinary sleep (measured by oxygen consumption and other physical correlates) might therefore have just as extraordinary a positive effect on experience, health, behavior, mood, creativity, happiness, and mutual interactions between people. Yet we teach the simple experiment, and the school population who does it keeps outperforming the whole state, sometimes even national and international competitions of all sorts, all the while making friends rather than enemies of even the defeated, yet all the while, this doesn't register very much on the non-participating world, or on almost anyone I have met through this forum, where I thought that high intelligence and civility would be signs of the possibility of sharing it. I credit this in part to the swing of the pendulum so far towards the objective, which means that aspect of experience which remains the same, no matter who observes, and away from the subjective, which means that aspect of experience which remains the same, no matter what is observed -- this latter area is the knowledge of the experiencer himself, and the very field of consciousness which creates experience itself. And on my part, it must be my failure to communicate, or bad personality, or insensitivity, perhaps, inasmuch as the subject matter, before I spoke it, was of the highest quality in its own right. ----- Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself [Marcus Aurelius, in good company with innumerable other sources of extremely similar assertions] and with respect to those who have offended me by words, or done me wrong, to be easily disposed to be pacified and reconciled, as soon as they have shown a readiness to be reconciled; and to read carefully, and not to be satisfied with a superficial understanding http://classics.mit.edu/Antoninus/meditations.mb.txt Thou seest how few the things are, the which if a man lays hold of, he is able to live a life which flows in quiet, and is like the existence of the gods; for the gods on their part will require nothing more from him who observes these things. [compare to Mic 6:8, all roads of knowledge, over all ages and all parts of the world, run toward the same end, but the communication between peoples is currently somewhat low] Through not observing what is in the mind of another a man has seldom been seen to be unhappy; but those who do not observe the movements of their own minds must of necessity be unhappy. This thou must always bear in mind, what is the nature of the whole, and what is my nature, and how this is related to that, and what kind of a part it is of what kind of a whole; and that there is no one who hinders thee from always doing and saying the things which are according to the nature of which thou art a part. The soul of man does violence to itself, first of all, when it becomes an abscess and, as it were, a tumour on the universe, so far as it can. For to be vexed at anything which happens is a separation of ourselves from nature, in some part of which the natures of all other things are contained. In the next place, the soul does violence to itself when it turns away from any man, or even moves towards him with the intention of injuring, such as are the souls of those who are angry. In the third place, the soul does violence to itself when it is overpowered by pleasure or by pain. Fourthly, when it plays a part, and does or says anything insincerely and untruly. Fifthly, when it allows any act of its own and any movement to be without an aim, and does anything thoughtlessly and without considering what it is, it being right that even the smallest things be done with reference to an end. Don't you take as your Saviour some guy who said a great deal that is quite like all of this? Man, this guy would be well appreciated here at mum.edu ! You will not agree with these things when your mind is overpowered, as he says, but when your mind rests in a bedrock of unshakeable calm, as it can come to be upon long experience of its nature, these things will become permanent truth, which you will be equally unable to transfer to the next person :) Consider how many things in the same indivisible time take place in each of us, things which concern the body and things which concern the soul: and so thou wilt not wonder if many more things, or rather all things which come into existence in that which is the one and all, which we call Cosmos, exist in it at the same time. Consider yourself as a sort of hologram of the universe, then, every part containing some essence of the entirety, but in poor, incoherent light, the image may be unclear and quite unsteady. . ==== > The gods are fighting Join in; tell us about the three gunas, Sattva, Rajas and Tamas, the creative, maintaining and destructive impulses (said to have parallels in similar operators in Quantum Electrodynamics, which keep the physical universe humming along :) Gods can be taken to be impulses of creation, at a level past where differentiation first occurs, into the different fundamental qualities of creation, whereas God may be taken to be the undifferentiated, complete whole; this might help reduce the impulses of some to fight over the non-existent argument between monotheism and that other stuff, over which, Mark Twain says: Man is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself, and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven... http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3BD56139.222431D2%40miu.edu The Gods Must Be Crazy, on the other hand, is a movie (or two, since there was an equally unusual sequel): http://www.teachwithmovies.org/guides/gods-must-be-crazy-i.html 1984 http://www.teachwithmovies.org/guides/gods-must-be-crazy-II.html 1990 -[]- . ==== > Veli-Pekka Nousiainen skrev: I did not understand a bit of this??? > What's going on? It was a brain fart. Quite unacceptable in polite company. Sorry. -Joe- It was the truth, which most of the time is not very amusing. But even if we consider that as braib fart, hmmm, what happens if they don't get out sometimes? Yeah, right, boooooommmm! ==== > The gods are fighting X > The Gods Must Be Crazy, on the other hand, is a movie > (or two, since there was an equally unusual sequel): http://www.teachwithmovies.org/guides/gods-must-be-crazy-i.html 1984 X A snip from the page above tells it all: Words and phrases: the antichrist. ==== The gods are fighting Join in; tell us about the three gunas, > Sattva, Rajas and Tamas, the creative, > maintaining and destructive impulses > (said to have parallels in similar operators > in Quantum Electrodynamics, which keep the > physical universe humming along :) Don't forget the 12 olympic gods who are said to have parallels to the 11 dimensions of string theory. Dionyssos was as always drunk, so he couldn't appear, hicks, this guy drives the world mad! And also the 4 fate godesses, who of course have parallels to the 4 quantum numbers. The fourth joined the club after the end of classicism, her name was Retsina Oh, and last but not least, the dutch bicycle, the dimensions of which let you calculate all nature constants. http://www.hars.de/misz/rado.html Unfortunately only in german, but those who have interest *will* understand how scientific all gods, drinks and bicycles are. > Gods can be taken to be impulses of creation, > at a level past where differentiation first occurs, > into the different fundamental qualities of creation, The above is as scientific as Disneyland, but after all perhaps we do live in Disneyland. > whereas > God may be taken to be the undifferentiated, complete whole; And this says much of nothing. Sounds good as literature, completely meaningless as science. > this might help reduce the impulses of some to fight > over the non-existent argument between monotheism > and that other stuff, over which, Mark Twain says: Behold! Are we going to read other stuff at last? > Man is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself, > and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. > He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best > to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven... > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3BD56139.222431D2%40miu.edu Aaaah, Mark has predicted what Nick, Joe *and so also John* will be doing in the future. But, to tell you the truth, I couldn't care less about finding my happiness and heaven. I'll do that in the grave. ==== Mr. Lugtmeier, I'm very glad to have seen your response. Do not misunderstand we I say that I do not have this program from a lack of trying (my programs breakdown as I try to figure the input of a summation notation...). Also, I have frustratingly searched hpcalc.org to find a few promising programs. However, the computers I have access to will not permit me to both unzip the files posted and find the correct software to open them up in. As I fall behind, my prof just recommends getting a TI. I'm willing to pay the money, but I far prefer HP's RPN. It seems - and I wonder why if this is true - HP no longer supports a line of calculators. However, there does appear to be a small (so small that I should switch to the TI?) culture of HP users in industry. I really digress and know you do not want a pen-pal. Bottom-line, I've tried and am relegated to asking for the program from someone while I work on my own programming over a longer time. I would be very grateful for any look HERE you idiot directions to the actual program. Sincerely, Marcus > Since you are a student AND an HP48 user, I suggest you write the (very > small+easy) programs for yourself. > When unsuccessful, look at www.hpcalc.org and see if there is something to > your liking... Caspar > Marcus schreef in bericht > comp.sys.hp48, > I'm a college calculus student and HP48 user. I need an approxiamation > program w/ the left hand, right hand, midpoint, trapezoid, and > Simpson's rule. > I sincerely appreciate any assistance on where/how to obtain this > program, Marcus ==== This is the one I use. It gives all the 5 that you asked for. Keep in mind that while I give you this, I encourage you to MAKE YOUR OWN program for stuff like this. Without ANY outside help, I did, and although it was hideous, it worked. After my hour or so of programming a DIRTY program, I understood the concepts very well. Due to the hideousness of my original program, however, I decided that I had earned the right to use somebody elses, so I did... and it's *wonderful.* hehe. He used all the nifty commands I wish I had known of, and its about 1/3 the size of my program... hehehe Program listed below... I tried attaching it but the reply didn't go through... Guess I can't do that. Arguments: 5: The integrand 4: The variable of integration 3: 'a', the left end point of the interval of integration 2: 'b', the right end point of the interval of integration 1: 'n', the number of non-overlapping strips of equal width covering [a,b] (Pasting lost the nifty tabs... sorry) **************************************************************************** *** %%HP: T(3)A(R)F(.); << CLLCD @ HP 48G: Riemann Sums 2 DISP @ Copyright (c) 1995 4 DISP by Jack Courtney 5 DISP All Rights Reserved 6 DISP @ @ Calculates the following Riemann Sums: @ @ Left Hand @ Right Hand @ Trapezoidal (as the average of LH and RH) @ Mid Point @ Simpson's (as the weighted average of MP & Trap) @ @ Note: As a consequence of the method of calculation, @ Simpson's rule uses 2*n+1 sample points; i.e., @ the endpoints plus the midpoints of each strip. @ @ The integrand must be contained in 'EQ' @ @ Stack On Entry: @ @ LEVEL 5: The integrand @ LEVEL 4: The variable of integration @ LEVEL 3: 'a', the left end point of the interval of integration @ LEVEL 2: 'b', the right end point of the interval of integration @ LEVEL 1: 'n', the number of non-overlapping strips of equal width covering [a,b] @ @ Usage example: @ @ 'X^2' 'X' -1 2 7 [RSUM] @ -> a b n << INDEP STEQ b a - n / -> h << a b XRNG 'X' 'X' a b h SEQ DUP 1 <LIST | ->NUM > DOLIST DUP TAIL GSLIST h * @ LH sum SWAP REVLIST TAIL GSLIST h * @ RH sum DUP2 + 2 / @ Trap sum Trapezoidal Sum ->TAG ROT Left Hand Sum ->TAG ROT Right Hand Sum ->TAG ROT 4 ROLL DUP TAIL SWAP REVLIST TAIL REVLIST ADD 2 / 1 << RCEQ 'PPAR' 3 GET ROT 2 ->LIST | ->NUM > DOLIST GSLIST h * @ MP sum DUP Mid Point Sum ->TAG SWAP 2 * 3 PICK DTAG + 3 / @ Simp sum Simpson's Sum ->TAG > > > comp.sys.hp48, I'm a college calculus student and HP48 user. I need an approxiamation > program w/ the left hand, right hand, midpoint, trapezoid, and > Simpson's rule. I sincerely appreciate any assistance on where/how to obtain this > program, Marcus ==== > Nick posted: Note that you can use also other sizes for the PICT. > You could as well have a 300x200 PICT. Or 521x322. > There is a limitation for the width but I don't remember > exactly what it was. Perhaps some other guy will > tell us once more? PICT is limited to 2048 pixels wide, but can be any length. > GROBs' length and width are limited only by available memory. Yep, thank you very much Joe! As we see, even with this limit, the PICT can get quite gigantic. > RPL trivia question: What RPL command is limited to an input that's equivalent > to 1412 days, 20 hours, 25 minutes and 12.5 seconds? Hmmm.... dunno. What is it? ==== > X > RPL trivia question: What RPL command is limited to an input that's > equivalent > to 1412 days, 20 hours, 25 minutes and 12.5 seconds? > That is equivalent to ~ 999 999 999 999. (note: spaces are optional:) > per ( / ) ticks in seconds (# 2000h) What command is that? Veli-Nikos. ==== > That is equivalent to ~ 999 999 999 999 ticks > What command is that? happens silently. -Joe- ==== I have been installing a few programs on my 1.19-6 rom hp 49g, and now every time UI reboot I get a Warning: Invalid Card data error Message. Any ideas on what this means? Is it serious? How do I fix it? ==== > I have been installing a few programs on my 1.19-6 rom hp 49g, and now every > time UI reboot I get a Warning: Invalid Card data error Message. Any > ideas on what this means? Is it serious? How do I fix it? type PINIT , this initializes the ports and the error will disappear -- ir. P.F.Geelhoed Delft University of Technology Laboratory for Aero & Hydrodynamics Leeghwaterstraat 21, 2628 CA Delft, The Netherlands +31-15-2786656 / +31-15-2782947 (fax) ==== > Martin, do you perhaps have any values stored in variables X and Y? Perhaps that was the case... But I canÇt say if it was. You see I use a library called VigaG and it uses variables like X, Y, M, V I think. Perhaps I was in that temporary directory, that library makes, at that time... I seldom use them X, Y etc. as variables. I use A, B, C etc. Anyway, now everything is just fine. I get the same result as the rest of you, today. (sometimes I think my calc behaves strange). I ofcourse use ROM 1.19-6! It rules :-) Martin J. ==== Go to http://www.hpcalc.org there you`ll find everything you need for programming your HP. > ==== Im looking for some info regarding the file format for standard HP38/39 aplets (ie funtcion solve etc). Can anyone help or do you know of anyone who would have this kind of info? M@ ==== I've phoned to hp to change my new hp49 received by Cynox. Hp has told me that many and many hp49 with serial CN 1..... are broken. They don't start. So , begore to buy, ask the serial number.. CU Crazy ==== What is your name ? I'm thing what the problem with the HP-49G produced in Chine (CN), is the internal condenser of 1000 microfarads and 6,3 VCC. If your microcomputer have guaranty, you must be replace this, but if isn't possible, change this condenser and finish the problem. This condenser mainted the memory, when you needed replace the batteries for aprox. 60 minutes. M.A.C.H. **************************************************************************** **** > I've phoned to hp to change my new hp49 received by Cynox. > Hp has told me that many and many hp49 with serial CN 1..... are broken. > They don't start. So , begore to buy, ask the serial number.. CU > Crazy ==== thanks in advance ==== you find a lot information (and programms) on www.hpcalc.org Roman schrieb im Newsbeitrag > thanks in advance ==== from a recent press release from Fred Valdez. This is excellent news. Fingers crossed that HP stand by their word and bring out some good calculators this year. So much for all the speculation that has been happening with HP32SII's ! I hope the decision makers and design engineers have been keeping a watch on the user etc. etc.. Don't want another Leyland P76 calculator like the HP49. might make a difference. > Dear Valued Customer extend a warm thank you for your very loyal and unwavering support for > HP calculators and in particular, our RPN technology. > Secondly, it is very important that we reassure you that HP will continue > to offer a full line of both RPN and Algebraic calculators. We have > currently, under development, an enhanced, new range of financial, > scientific and graphing calculators to replace the following: HP17BII, > HP32SII, HP19BII, HP38G, HP39G, HP40G, HP48G, HP48GX and the HP49G. Many > of you have expressed a strong preference for some of the above products > and it is important that you receive this reassurance. Please note, > however, that some of these products have been discontinued but will be > replaced over the next 6 -12 months, a few as soon as this summer and > fall. You should be also made aware that you might encounter difficulty > with buying products being replaced, depending on your geographic region. Our best selling financial calculators HP12C and HP10BII will continue as > important parts of our product offering, together with our HP30S > scientific model. More recently, we introduced two entry level algebraic > products --the 9s scientific and 9g graphing calculators. > regarding our new product launches and retail availability, we will keep > you informed. In the meantime, I welcome you to write to me directly if > you have any questions at all. <<...OLE_Obj... ==== Dear Mr. Lee-Khuan Goh, Ww Mktg Manager (Calc) Personal Systems Group - HP Company As an enthusiast follower of HP calculator products among others of the same company, since the late days of the 41CX, going all the way through the 28C, 28S, 48SX, 48GX and the late 49G (along with the 17BII, 12C and very recent proud owner of the late DOS palmtop 200LX), I just wanted to thank for your lines as well as comment this last post*. In spite of it, I must confess I would have liked to hear something regarding the 32SII bigger sister, the 42S. Along with many others, I tried to contribute here with the impossible-to-satisfy-ALL-wishes list, hoping to be of any help whatsoever to your team. Please, do keep our hopes alive !!! and make all the skeptical comments (including mines) eat dirt. -- Carlos Lacroze Buenos Aires, Argentina Remember to REMOVE the extension term next to the @ sign, from ------------------------------------------------------- *Regarding Richard Stanaway post, > from a recent press release from Fred Valdez. X-Proxy-Client: kayeung@uiuc.edu from 12-221-88-122.client.insightBB.com ==== oooooh, hope it is not another joke ! we need RPN.. : from a recent press release from Fred Valdez. > This is excellent news. Fingers crossed that HP stand > by their word and bring out some good calculators this > year. So much for all the speculation that has been > happening with HP32SII's ! I hope the decision makers > and design engineers have been keeping a watch on the user > etc. etc.. Don't want another Leyland P76 calculator like > the HP49. might make a difference. > Dear Valued Customer > extend a warm thank you for your very loyal and unwavering support for > HP calculators and in particular, our RPN technology. > Secondly, it is very important that we reassure you that HP will continue > to offer a full line of both RPN and Algebraic calculators. We have > currently, under development, an enhanced, new range of financial, > scientific and graphing calculators to replace the following: HP17BII, > HP32SII, HP19BII, HP38G, HP39G, HP40G, HP48G, HP48GX and the HP49G. Many > of you have expressed a strong preference for some of the above products > and it is important that you receive this reassurance. Please note, > however, that some of these products have been discontinued but will be > replaced over the next 6 -12 months, a few as soon as this summer and > fall. You should be also made aware that you might encounter difficulty > with buying products being replaced, depending on your geographic region. > Our best selling financial calculators HP12C and HP10BII will continue as > important parts of our product offering, together with our HP30S > scientific model. More recently, we introduced two entry level algebraic > products --the 9s scientific and 9g graphing calculators. > regarding our new product launches and retail availability, we will keep > you informed. In the meantime, I welcome you to write to me directly if > you have any questions at all. > > <<...OLE_Obj...> > Lee-Khuan Goh > Worldwide Marketing Manager (Calculators) > Personal Systems Group > Hewlett Packard Company > Richard Stanaway ==== So it will be. A successor to the flag ship. A new prtable CAS machine. Great! Great! Great! ==== I'll believe it when I see it. -- Thierry Morissette thm47@msn.com So it will be. A successor to the flag ship. A new prtable CAS machine. Great! Great! Great! > ==== > I'll believe it when I see it. Ditto ==== Tritto > I'll believe it when I see it. > Ditto ==== > I agree to a point, but one has to be careful when communicating over > the Internet. Things can be misconstrued quite easily. The usual disadvantage of written thoughts, hey? Well, perhaps we should connect us to Rcobo's brain network? I take no responsibility for propagation of buggy thoughts ==== > I agree to a point, but one has to be careful when communicating over > the Internet. Things can be misconstrued quite easily. The usual disadvantage of written thoughts, hey? Well, perhaps we > should connect us to Rcobo's brain network? I take no responsibility for propagation of buggy thoughts What about the thought worms ==== fernando schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Let's see if any of you HP geniuses can help a rookie like me. > I just bought the HP 49g with a Civil Engineering Pack included ( > Chotkeh)...I connected the cable interface in my I/O port and > downloaded the drived from HP.com to down/up load stuff to the calc. > Problem is that it is not working. The Conn Kit only recognizes a COM > 3 and cannot handshake the HP 49 g when I execute the program. Did you set your calc into server-mode? If not press [R-SHIFT]&[R-ARROW] before you start HPComm. Roman > This is strange becasue I have a Win XP platform that always reads > anything I connect to it. > What is the problem?....What can I do???....The HP folks tell me that > any Win generation driver will work with XP...is that true?....could I > have a virus??? > Help!!! ==== 1) See in the Control Panel (System) of XP if you have a COM1, COM2, COM3, etc... and stay resident. The mouse is for COM1 (default). You can select this ports, but in the Connectivity PAC, you must choose the equal serial port In the HP-49G: Select Mode RPN (MODE +/-) if you see Algebraic Then press: G key (APPS) 2.I/O functions.. 5.Transfer.. In TRANSFER Windows, select: Port : Wire Type : Kermit Fmt : ASCII or Binary (for transfer Libraries select Binary). Xlat : Newl Chk : 3 (deselect comma with MODE _FM,) Baud : 9600 Parity : None _OVrW : Select or deselect Overwrite Then you see in the Global variable IOPAR ... {9600. 0. 0. 0. 3. 1.} Now, put the HP-49G in server mode with Shift Right Arrow (Red) and right arrow white. Charge the Communication PAC (C:Archivos de programaHewlett PackardPC Connectivity KitHPComm.exe) Of course, you first must connect the serial cable (HP-F1897-66000). Gook luck!. M.A.C.H. **************************************************************************** **** > Let's see if any of you HP geniuses can help a rookie like me. > I just bought the HP 49g with a Civil Engineering Pack included ( > Chotkeh)...I connected the cable interface in my I/O port and > downloaded the drived from HP.com to down/up load stuff to the calc. > Problem is that it is not working. The Conn Kit only recognizes a COM > 3 and cannot handshake the HP 49 g when I execute the program. This is strange becasue I have a Win XP platform that always reads > anything I connect to it. > What is the problem?....What can I do???....The HP folks tell me that > any Win generation driver will work with XP...is that true?....could I > have a virus??? > Help!!! ==== I just purchased a new HP Pavilion notebook that came with a lot of software that is absolutely useless to me. I wish to install only Windows XP and the appropriate drivers on my machine. My unit did not come with any WinXP disks; I only got 4 recovery disks. Does the recovery CD allow you to do such a thing ? I think not. I also chatted with HP's online help and they told me that the receovery CDs would install the entire system as it was shipped from the factory. To do a clean install, I would have to buy a retail version of Windows XP! (Did I hear that right ??) So my question is: Has anyone installed only the operating system using these recovery disks? I already own three Dells and they all come with their own OS disks. When I got my HP notebook, I was quite impressed with it and wondered why anyone would buy Dells. But I guess the answer is about to dawn on me... Please help! ==== Hmm..this doesn't seem to be a group for HP Notebooks. Sorry folks...I just realized this msg doesn't belong in here... > I just purchased a new HP Pavilion notebook that came with a lot of software > that is absolutely useless to me. I wish to install only Windows XP and the > appropriate drivers on my machine. My unit did not come with any WinXP > disks; I only got 4 recovery disks. Does the recovery CD allow you to do > such a thing ? I think not. I also chatted with HP's online help and they > told me that the receovery CDs would install the entire system as it was > shipped from the factory. To do a clean install, I would have to buy a > retail version of Windows XP! (Did I hear that right ??) So my question is: Has anyone installed only the operating system using > these recovery disks? I already own three Dells and they all come with their own OS disks. When I > got my HP notebook, I was quite impressed with it and wondered why anyone > would buy Dells. But I guess the answer is about to dawn on me... Please help! ==== > I just purchased a new HP Pavilion notebook that came with a lot of software > that is absolutely useless to me. I wish to install only Windows XP and the > appropriate drivers on my machine. My unit did not come with any WinXP > disks; I only got 4 recovery disks. Does the recovery CD allow you to do > such a thing ? I think not. I also chatted with HP's online help and they > told me that the receovery CDs would install the entire system as it was > shipped from the factory. To do a clean install, I would have to buy a > retail version of Windows XP! (Did I hear that right ??) So my question is: Has anyone installed only the operating system using > these recovery disks? I already own three Dells and they all come with their own OS disks. When I > got my HP notebook, I was quite impressed with it and wondered why anyone > would buy Dells. But I guess the answer is about to dawn on me... Please help! You should be able to use the Add/Remove Programs applet in Control Panel to get rid of programs. ==== [ot stupidity snipped] Well, there I was, thinking I hadn't flamed anyone for a while, and then along came this tosser posting a question about installing Windoze on a Personal Computer to a HP calculator group. > Please help! Go and see a brain surgeon and ask if you can have one put in. A bientot Paul -- Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth) Netgear: the worst technical support I've ever encountered. ==== > Hmm..this doesn't seem to be a group for HP Notebooks. Sorry folks...I just > realized this msg doesn't belong in here... Oh Jesus! If ever you do get any intelligence, have a go at learning how to cancel your posts, rather than making things worse by posting twice. A bientot Paul -- Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth) Netgear: the worst technical support I've ever encountered. ==== > Hmm..this doesn't seem to be a group for HP Notebooks. Sorry folks...I just > realized this msg doesn't belong in here... Oh Jesus! If ever you do get any intelligence, have a go at learning how > to cancel your posts, rather than making things worse by posting twice. Oh Jesus! If ever you do get any manners, have a go at learning how to be nicer to people, rather than making things worse by whining about an incorrect post! A bientot > Paul > -- > Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth) ==== >Here's a mini-challenge for System RPL programmers! (Mini for the experts, >midi for the enthusiasts, maxi for the amateurs, fuhgeddaboudit for the >wannabes.) >Write a SRPL program that traverses all of main memory (including directories, >subdirectories, etc), finds all programs with << > delimiters, and inserts >Author: XYZ DROP after the opening <<, if those two objects are not there >already. This process will be referred to as author stamping. being the secondary objective. It's 152.5 bytes, not counting the >author string. I also have a size optimized solution that's >surprisingly only 7.5 bytes smaller, but it's much slower. :: >SaveVarRes >SYSCONTEXT ' >:: >LASTRAM-WORD >NOT?SEMI >BEGIN DUPTYPECOL? >IT :: DUPDUP CARCOMP ' x<< EQ NOTcaseDROP > INNERCOMP OVER ' x> EQ NOTcase NDROP > DUPPICK 1GETLAM EQUAL > ' xDROP 3PICK #1+PICK OVER EQ ROTAND case DROPNDROP > SWAP#1-SWAP 1GETSWAP TWO pshtop& #1+ ::N SWAP REPLACE > ; >DUPTYPERRP? >IT :: DUP 2GETEVAL ; 2.5 bytes can be shaved off if the above is replaced by this : DUP DUPTYPERRP? ITE 2GETEVAL DROP >PREVRAM-WORD >NOT_UNTIL (UNTIL) >; >Author: Jonathan Busby ZEROZEROTWO DOBIND >CONTEXT@ 2GETEVAL >ABND >RestVarRes >; Also, by the way, the size optimized solution is now 10 bytes smaller. (than this one) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== Also, by the way, the size optimized solution is now 10 bytes smaller. >(than this one) > Make that 12.5 bytes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== >ZEROZEROTWO DOBIND I terribly like this unconventional method of binding... I use is very often, e.g. in ANIMS (animations) on hpcalc.org. Unfortunately, no time to compete with you at present. But be careful: Werner may beat you if he reads this :-) ==== > I am using your indespensible tools like > keyman, ot49, unitman... and after understanding the > docuÇs the tools are burned for ever into my HP. I thought you also belong to those who ceased to post in this NG :-) My tools are not indispensable (at least I never claimed this). I just tried to customize the HP49 to make it a really valuable machine. But there are people who did not yet completely understand what a user interface enhancement on the HP49 can mean, making long marathons from trivial stuff, not realizing that a marathon distance can be traversed in a few minutes, even without jumping over a step-by-step hole. > Your documentation is really often very condensed. > My personal experience is, that all need to be read twice or more > to get it fixed. I would like to give my contribution to > convert your txt-docu into html with nice screen-dumps... > I think a longer docu could give your tools more value, > because it would reach more users. That would be phantastic! I wouldn't mind if you add here or there an explanation which in your opinion should be added. > And you are the inventor/developer of > really power-full sys-RPL-tools, invisible in memory space, > with the real label get-it (not always labeled correctly > on Eric's site, because games get this label much to often) and I > would regret in case you would change your hobby. That Eric likes playing is ok, why not? I also like a good game, mainly my Tetri with start in level 10, really fascinating ... Also Pivo (who lately became a serious person and now is Peter Geelhoed) liked playing Tetri and even won a nice HP49 by doing so ... Actually, he didn't win it by skillness in geometry but in hacking and asm programming :-) I may return to the NG if it will be less noisy. I'm unable to coexist with a nobody who posted unprecedented defamatory and insulting things which are read by many others. And he sends this elsewhere too. Raymond deren Informationsgehalt oft gegen Null tendiert... - too late. I lately neglected some other hobbies, e.g. return to the inexhaustable Kunst der Fuge with a new wonderful japanese organ. I had the idea to port Bach's Zweistimmige Inventionen entirely to the HP49, to make it readable by MIG, but I'm still thinking on an automated translation, perhaps with a scanner. This obviously would need a lot of programming but may already exist. Do you know how Miguel translated the long and involved Pr.8aludium und Fuge d-moll into readable code? By hand? Clearly, I'll miss some of the good sides, for instance, arguing with JHM and JYA who also like to argue with each-other. I also liked to help newbees if I found time. Hence, I probably will not be able to resist against having a look into this NG from time to time ... > With respect to John H. (Milchprodukte und Eier), but so > far their is no real support from the former company I prefer your > way to fix unsufficient functionalaty :-) Well, one may have a different look at the things. But your equation JHM = John H. Milchprodukte und Eier is of really excellent humor, I laughted out loudly :-) Although JHM is one of the most distinguished experts(*) he has (as does everybody of us) the tendency to stick to old customs. The HP49 is not a HP48. The former has more potential of indiviudal customization than the HP48 ever had, but only few people seem to have realized this. Proposing something like Swap the quoter with the EQW in their key function cannot really help. Also many experts never tried at least some of the really useful assignments from Keyman or Topkeys (of which none is in conflict with a key's standard functionality :-) > I lately noticed some Czech member in this NG. Maybe he joins the > ACCeuro > Yeah, the world-tool to show a praktical calender on *the mashine :-) > I use your ACC at least once the week, when we have a meeting without > an asppropriate calendar. Well, I have it on HIST (ouside edit mode). Longhold HIST sets the US- ACC. If our Czech friend is not yet familiar with SysRPL he could send to you the Czech weekday grob and month-names, together with the text. Please use the Polish ACC as a base because only this one has meanwhile be updated to make it still smaller. Remember, decoding the asm-code of ACC is now easily possible with the BZ-toggler from OT49. MakeACC isn't really needed anymore but may still work. Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. Really? Rather replace the Computers by Some people ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (*) Not only that, he is also enormously eloquent. He kann einen Hund tot reden as we say in Germany, and remembers me on a friend from my student days who later made his habilitation on Hegel. When this guy opened his mouth, all girls looked at him with transfigured eyes, without understanding anything on his flood of words on Hegel, while ==== X I would still like to VIEW the contents of a any back-up in FlashRAM. > Clearly, here the builtin filer has a bug. It should not allow to edit a > directory and afterwards trying by itself to restore (I hope JYA will > read this). This was the main reason why I removed the EDIT from its > prominent 1st place in JYA's filer menu and replaced it by EDITB (edit > best) which allows to edit even a character and restores it correctly. > The EDIT function has been banned to leftshift EDITB (with rightshift > EDITB you may even edit and restore a SysRPL object which is somewhat > risky because the ASM function in lib 256 does not yet run perfectly). Thus, your proposal is inacceptable - unless I write a lot of general > nonsense in Filers.txt which would terribly complicate the story. - Wolfgang ==== X > Fix proposition: The builtin filer should not allow to enter a HOME > backup (which makes no sense anyway). Such a backup distinguishes > y nullnamed directory (even if JHM will now protest). BUT it should allow to VIEW > 2. If being in the filer, one can easily edit a directory. This will > The filer should not be entitled to try at once to restore. YESSH! > 3. The TREE environment should never show any nullnamed dir at the very > end, even if some people like creating nullnames denoting directories. At the very end of the real file structure in the back-up root level? Well, I guess this could be OK Better yet is to have more informative Message Boxes AND an EDIT protection of null-named dirs and even add the double-name protection eg. check the object type always ==== Wolfgang Rautenberg > Fix proposition: The builtin filer should not allow to enter a HOME > backup (which makes no sense anyway). Such a backup distinguishes easier, a n y nullnamed directory (even if JHM will now protest). > BUT it should allow to VIEW No problem in viewing a directory as long as it is not too large or contains large SysRPL parts (which are viewed as EXTERNAL EXTERNAL ... anyway, no matter whether extable is present or not). Driving into a HOME backup could be allowed, but not driving deeper into its nullnamed directories. Just driving into a HOME backup is safer than viewing I forgot to include in my bug list JYA's order of the NEW VARIABLE dialog box starting with the OBJECT question instead of asking first whether a Directory or not. Well, thats not a bug but one somehow has the impression its author was drunk when creating this dialog box. I hope you've sent it to something called bug-fix or so. > 3. The TREE environment should never show any nullnamed dir at the > very end, even if some people like creating nullnames denoting > directories. > At the very end of the real file structure in the back-up root > level? No matter. Please check it out before making up your mind. With CHDIR in this environement you may change to this dir which is empty for users of JHM's hiding tools. This also quits the filer and I bet that this would completely confuse a newbee since even pressing VARS would continue showing the empty menu !!! - Wolfgang ==== > Store your directory 'MYDIR' in port 2, open the filer, go to port 2 > and press the Right Arrow over it, then over the second variable > 'NAME' (the one with the DIR icon). You will get a warmstart. Sometimes yes, sometimes not (I didn't get one, for example, when I did the same as you just did, but each case is different); this very randomness is exactly why I don't downplay warmstarts and hangs as not being like crashes, because they are more like I shot an arrow into the air, and where it landed, I know not where. Things like this indicate potential memory corruption, even if there was neither a warmstart nor any sign of damage, which sometimes could show up later as a seemingly unrelated complete memory wipeout; therefore my response is always to reload a known good backup each and every time (or to just restart my emulator without saving, which is so much easier :) There's no such thing as just a warmstart/hang :) > It's clearly the same case we are talking about > but we arrived to it from plain UserRPL > which you can type directly into your command line > and by no means through a hacker tool. Exactly so. > I think this confirms a bug in the filer. It confirms an oversight, that via same-name variables, which can be created in various ways (even by a crashed plot), the object type remembered in the filer's display list might not agree with the type when the object is recalled via its name. Thus, when the filer is asked to explore (right-arrow) an item which it thinks is a directory, it would be prudent to check that type *after* recalling it, before trying to treat it as being an actual directory. This is the general issue, regardless of whether that object is a copy of what was once a hidden directory or not, and if it is to be fixed, the fix should be the simple general matter just mentioned, rather than a foray into special cases involving only such copies of once-hidden directories, which is not even knowable with certainty anyway. Many a completely general solution is simpler than even one specific solution of one specific case; that's a gift from the designer of the universe to its overworked analysts :) [r->] [OFF] . ==== > I forgot to include in my bug list JYA's order of the NEW VARIABLE > dialog box starting with the OBJECT question ... > I have already got an answer from JYA in this NG in year 2002 > where he promised to fix this. Is it not done yet in current > 1.19-7 beta? No, he forgot it :-) - Wolfgang ==== > All I tried to say was that since the current filer warmstarts > when used with your hider (a complaint that you raised yourself), > you could instead adjust your hider to avoid it, which is the only > way that the problem can be eliminated from the existing 1.19-6. If you'd have read the available documents about the flashpointer Filer_Manager you'd know that there are reprogrammable components and others, like the RightArrow driving downward function, are not. Thus, exactly what causes the warmstarts is not reproprogrammable unless I write an entirely new filer which will cost about 36 KB. > This leaves the filer with an empty menu. Now a curious newbee > and nervously presses on VARS. But the menu remains empty! > The newbee would probably think he made a serious mistake > and lost all his files in the HOME directory. > Are you indirectly hinting that the PATH display will > disorient the poor fellow? Exactly! Do you really think a newbee would be so crazy as to create an empty directory and store it in the empty name? I don't think so. Hence he never met with this situation: The header tells him he is at HOME, but the VARS key launches an empty menu, although he already created a lot of his own files, perhaps some of them hidden by your HIDE tool. - Wolfgang ==== > Hey JKH, why don't you jump in here and repeat > that lecture in which you upbraided me for even > daring to suggest otherwise... No need; you're doing it just fine all by yourself. -Joe- ==== > ... and it will get JKH mad again to try to lock > everyone out of them, and you know what a snot > he gets to be when he's mad Why waste a perfectly good rage by acting calm? >:-b -Joe- -JN 2:15- ==== jm> The point is, that it avoids warmstarts and potential crashes... > In this point I completely agree with you and I stressed this already > not, should not be facilitated by any filer. Well, I was commenting about my *personal* lack of interest, but I hardly meant to support locking out anything in a saved directory object in a *port* from being explored by the user, if (s)he wants, because: o Port objects of this type could be copies of *any* directory, and variables within it, whether named or unnnamed, could contain anything and/or cause these warmstarts etc., so we have no business trying to judge them by name alone. o Null-named variables of any type can be user-created for any purpose, may be used to store any further data one wishes, and thus should not be discrimated against being viewed at will. Hey JKH, why don't you jump in here and repeat that lecture in which you upbraided me for even daring to suggest otherwise (which wasn't what I really meant, but you thought I did): http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=cSOI9.11559%24kz2.1204351%40newsread1.p rod.itd.earthlink.net o Actually, I once showed how to rename the hidden directory to a non-null name, which ought to cause you to think further (and reveals another easily fixed current filer bug as well): http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3AE7AC07.D463B5BB%40miu.edu o The current 1.19-6 filer warmstart problem is a general problem applicable to named objects as well, and can not be solved by prejudicially disabling only null-named objects from being viewed; the completely general and bullet-proof solution to the filer bug is simply to check object type of *any* variable before treating as if a directory; absolutely no need to get stuck on irrelevant detail and prejudice against null named variables. Behavior is then identical with the VAR menu, in which only one of identically named vars in current dir can be viewed (unless new filer works quite differently to be able to view all of them, which would also obviate any need to refuse viewing), so what's wrong with that being identical to the filer (which it is already, which in turn is why you got warmstarts from the filer having forgotten this point)? Or, rewrite filer to not act like VAR, and obviate the problem by not letting one variable cover another, which also obviates every disallow showing some var proposal. > Damned! Do you know how many hours I spend to analyse the filer's > structure? How difficult it is to work in a 4-dimensional space of > possibilties: Key executable in a dir but not in a port, or conversly, > etc. Did you ever read in Programming in SysRPL the part concerning > FPTR Filer_Manager which is not at all completely documented? Did you > offer any alternative in your beloved UsrRPL? What did I say to unleash this storm? All I tried to say was that since the current filer warmstarts when used with your hider (a complaint that you raised yourself), you could instead adjust your hider to avoid it, which is the only way that the problem can be eliminated from the existing 1.19-6. > I've investigated your proposal of storing the empty dir in the empty > name for hiding. It is *not* the right way, at least not for newbees. > With your setting, you see the the empty dir at the end of the dir > tree in the TREE environment. Just press on CHDIR to set the dir. You have left the topic of examining a copy of a directory object stored in a port, and are now on the topic of using the filer tree to pick any directory to make the current directory and view it in the VAR menu, which can be done as well without bothering with the filer at all, just by navigating to it (from HOME) using VAR menu keys alone. > This leaves the filer with an empty menu. Now a curious newbee > and nervously presses on VARS. But the menu remains empty! Just as it does when he goes to any empty directory at all, even a named one which he created himself! If this frightens him, tell him never to make an empty directory and then begin using it, nor to use Peter Karp's clean solver, for his nerves' sake :) > The newbee would probably think he made a serious mistake > and lost all his files in the HOME directory. Are you indirectly hinting that the PATH display will disorient the poor fellow? Well, why doesn't it equally and then sees only a couple of unrecognizable names (or possibly an absolutely empty directory, as explained above), yet with the same {HOME} [no space!] displayed at the top? (although PATH or PATH SIZE shows it clearly enough). And what if his header size is zero? Boy, if he ever then falls into the black hole of a normal empty directory of his own, only a fire company with a ladder will be able to rescue him :) Just give him a Valium, and let him do what he wants; after all, by the time he is using variable hiders and looking for the hidden directory to explore in backups, he probably resents being called newbie any longer, probably can prove it by knowing what UPDIR and HOME do, and may very well be highly annoyed with a filer which doesn't let him see the files he wants. I think you are really grasping at straws trying to justify a prejudice against using other unnamed directories (the system already uses one itself, so you can't avoid it); the fact is, you can get into any empty directory anyway, without even invoking the filer, so it's no use working overtime to fudge the filer not to show empty directories while the VAR menu still does, it's not a general solution to the warmstarts which you got yourself, and it will get JKH mad again to try to lock everyone out of them, and you know what a snot he gets to be when he's mad > Now comes the next pitfall. If the newbee has choosen your > empty dir and presses EDIT, seeing something like DIR END, > he didn't get anything interesting, hence wants to return > Directory Not Allowed. At this point, the newbe > is probably completely confused. More confused than when not using the filer at all, when just pressing left-shift ... Down, with the name 'MYDIR' on the stack? (or left-shift EDIT on 'MYDIR' in the HP48) A popular writer on the subject of nutritional supplements once campaigned quite like this in one of his books; he devoted one whole chapter to extolling the virtues of Vitamin C, yet in another chapter he was damning chemical food additives like Ascorbic Acid (which is also the very same Vitamin C). How come the filer is so wrong to give this error if you try to *store* an edited directory (or anything else) back into the directory variable, but you are not also campaigning against the fact that this is not a filer bug, but is the completely general system response to any attempt to store anything into a variable that already contains a directory? Take any HP48 or 49 and try to edit any directory in place, without the filer -- can you do it? So that's your real complaint, and even if you are making a new filer which allows editing an entire directory, it still doesn't fix the current warmstarts in 1.19-6 which occur when using a hider tool which you could immediately fix right now, without waiting for any GPL, etc. > Thus, your proposal is unacceptable - unless I write a lot of general > nonsense in Filers.txt which would terribly complicate the story. What was my proposal, anyway? Oh yes, it was have your *hider* use an empty directory, so that the 1.19-6 filer crashes (about which you complained) could no longer occur. And your objection is, that if the user deliberately navigates into that empty directory, he will have no idea how to get out, unlike when it's an empty directory he made himself. So okay -- how about using a non-empty directory, then; just make a string in it named 'README' which says: Don't worry, this directory has been created to help you hide your variables; now press UPDIR or go HOME :) Or, instead of using up that many extra bytes in every hider variable, you could instead transfer that note to your hider documentation, and consider the matter closed :) [r->] [OFF] . ==== > I forgot to add a note for those who do not agree with JHM's (and my) > via the filer in a backup of HOME. Funny that I can't recognize my own opinion, which I believe I had just stated for myself earlier today. No, I am not in favor of making anyone go through such contortions to get at what's in any null-named dir in a backup (which may or may not be a real HD, for reasons previously expressed). I think that it's bizarre, sorry. How about drilling another hole in the back, and requiring the user to insert two paper clips at the same time (you know, like those ICBM-launching switches...) On second thought, I withdraw that suggestion > PS. That's not me but JHM who invented this kind of games. > I remember that he posted something similar here > and recommend it to JKH. Should I be flattered to have this elegant solution attributed to me? (do you know how Google's Advanced Groups Search works?) What with both WR and JKH fabricating my inner thoughts for me, I guess I can sit back and save my mental energy for some real work :) [r->] [OFF] . ==== > That cost only 28 bytes, nearly nothing. I never thought I'd hear the day when you'd waste 28 bytes and say it was nothing :) Well, I'm off to another bizarre bazaar; hope I never see this! [r->] [OFF] . ==== > It's a periodic thing... occasionally a hot item flares up and the flames > leap (a bit like solar events). Right now, I think it's being acerbated by > the global, geo-political state of affairs and the demise of ACO finally > seeping in--making us a bit grumpy. You're probably right. Especially about ACO. People whose only experience with HP is buying a recent HP49 probably have no idea what all the fuss is about. It's about HP being a standard of excellence since Bill Hewlett and David Packard put that audio oscillator together about 60 years ago. When everyone else was tending toward dumbed-down mass marketing, HP was always insistent on well-designed, beautifully made products - the Rolls-Royce of test equipment and calculators. Now it looks as if the Old Guard has been replaced by mass marketers. The look and feel of the 49, its lack of documentation, its lack of support, and all the customer questions left hanging in the air - agh! It's as if Antonio Stradivarius had stopped making violins and started making ukeleles with Donald Duck painted on them. Bill Not that February in Toronto helps things Markwick ==== [snip] It's as if Antonio Stradivarius had stopped making violins and started > making ukeleles with Donald Duck painted on them. > LOL! Plastic ukeleles with Mickey -- Ditto otherwise. The sad thing is that Carly and Co. want it that way (by design). Bill Not that February in Toronto helps things Markwick Hey, I've been Toronto in the dead of winter (attending a conference last year) -- I can see why hockey's big up there. There's a wonderful French Restaurant, Le Select, on Queen Street West in Toronto. Greg (just down the road from Corvallis, where it all once happened) S. ==== > Is it time for Silly Season? > At least four of our senior, articulate users are flaming away at each > other over topics that seem, at least at this remove, a bit vapourous. > Since it appears to be global, I assume it wasn't terrorists dropping > Nasty Pills into the water supply. Cosmic rays, perhaps? I don't know about them, but it's been colder than Scandinavian Hell > around here for too long, which tends to have a negative effect on my > personality and typing ability. Well, , you should type inhouse only, do not go out with your portable PC/Mac and/or Jornada/49G Keep it cool! ==== Veli-Pekka Nousiainen ha scritto nel messaggio > We have had malfunctioning cynox speedups in Finland, too. > I'll amke it. > Talk about you...who are u ? i've seen many of your msg and i thank you for > this. =============================== Veli-Pekka Nousiainen SST 3A1, FIN-02760 Espoo, FINLAND TEL= +358 9 4110 1777 GSM= +358 44 700 6007 =============================== Male, born 1958-07-20. And one daughter, Ulrika, Helena Suvi-Ulrika Harjunen, 1990-07-01 > How do u know so many things about hp ? I simply use them (the HP calculator or handheld computers), some years a lot, sometimes, well they do gather dust... I think it all started at year 1973 when I bought my HP-21. It was my last year before high school and I used it in physics lessons. We were forced to use a slide rule in examines and once I have my batt empty and the teacher asked from me ALL the calculations. It was not funny. Even when (after graduation) I went for a test to go into the Oulu university in year 1977, we still had to use a slide rule in that test. Fortunately this was the last time ever in Finland. In that year I bought myself a HP 25 and later a HP 41C, which was replaced by a more expensive HP 41CV in the same week (refunded fully) due to severe memory restrictions the C model had. Later in my life I aquired also a HP 34C, but It was replaced by HP 15C. I also had HP 11C, 12C, and 16C. Then I got the HP 75C and later HP 71B and learned some BASIC plus Forth & Assembler with the 71B and even the HP version of VisiCalc BASIC using the 75C. (I did by one Casio and three Sharp BASIC calculators, too) I also bought a HP 41CX + Digital Portable Cassette drive and later a portable floppy drive for my HP 71B. I think I switched from machine engineering to computer science sometime in spring 1983 - was it? Down from university to collage. Then finally arrived the HP 28C, which was replaced by the 28S the next year - again because of the memory shortage. I also bought a HP 18B (later replace by a HP 19BII) in order to calculate my mortgage loan and other investments. The HP 48SX + 128KB RAM came in quickly and I didn't bought the 48GX until very late. The calculator HP 40G sits on a shelf like a book but I use the HP 49G in a daily basis. Sometimes I pickup my HP 700LX Omnigo & Nokia 2110i combo and do some old small things with it, but mostly I use my Jornada 720 for business (Addresses, Appointments, Tasks, Word, Excel, etc) I don't own a portable PC, only one 2002 model desktop PC for web access through a cable modem AND - naturally for syncing the Jornada and down/uploading the HP 49G stuff. > I add more info about my new hp49. Made in China, i think for canadian > market. And serial is CN11200021 CU > Crazy X-Proxy-Client: kayeung@uiuc.edu from 12-221-88-122.client.insightBB.com ==== > Veli-Pekka Nousiainen ha scritto nel messaggio > We have had malfunctioning cynox speedups in Finland, too. > > I'll amke it. > Talk about you...who are u ? i've seen many of your msg and i thank you > for > this. > =============================== > Veli-Pekka Nousiainen > SST 3A1, FIN-02760 Espoo, FINLAND > TEL= +358 9 4110 1777 > GSM= +358 44 700 6007 > =============================== > Male, born 1958-07-20. And one daughter, Ulrika, > Helena Suvi-Ulrika Harjunen, 1990-07-01 > How do u know so many things about hp ? I simply use them (the HP calculator or handheld computers), > some years a lot, sometimes, well they do gather dust... I think it all started at year 1973 when I bought my HP-21. > It was my last year before high school and I used it in physics lessons. > We were forced to use a slide rule in examines and once I have my batt empty > and the teacher asked from me ALL the calculations. It was not funny. > Even when (after graduation) I went for a test to go into the Oulu > university > in year 1977, we still had to use a slide rule in that test. > Fortunately this was the last time ever in Finland. In that year I bought myself a HP 25 and later a HP 41C, > which was replaced by a more expensive HP 41CV in the same week > (refunded fully) due to severe memory restrictions the C model had. > Later in my life I aquired also a HP 34C, but It was replaced by HP 15C. > I also had HP 11C, 12C, and 16C. Then I got the HP 75C and later HP 71B > and learned some BASIC plus Forth & Assembler with the 71B > and even the HP version of VisiCalc BASIC using the 75C. > (I did by one Casio and three Sharp BASIC calculators, too) > I also bought a HP 41CX + Digital Portable Cassette drive and later > a portable floppy drive for my HP 71B. I think I switched from machine engineering to computer science > sometime in spring 1983 - was it? Down from university to collage. Then finally arrived the HP 28C, which was replaced by the 28S > the next year - again because of the memory shortage. > I also bought a HP 18B (later replace by a HP 19BII) > in order to calculate my mortgage loan and other investments. The HP 48SX + 128KB RAM came in quickly and I didn't bought the 48GX > until very late. The calculator HP 40G sits on a shelf like a book > but I use the HP 49G in a daily basis. > Sometimes I pickup my HP 700LX Omnigo & Nokia 2110i combo > and do some old small things with it, but mostly I use my Jornada 720 > for business (Addresses, Appointments, Tasks, Word, Excel, etc) I don't own a portable PC, only one 2002 model desktop PC for > web access through a cable modem > AND - naturally > for syncing the Jornada and down/uploading the HP 49G stuff. > I add more info about my new hp49. Made in China, i think for canadian > market. And serial is CN11200021 > CU > Crazy ==== Yeung Ka Yin Anthony ha scritto nel messaggio Yes, i've read it. Cu Chris aka Crazy ==== > ->KEYTIME with no spaces is the actual command ie the right arrow is > actually the first character in the command name. So try 300 [enter] [rightshift] 0 [alpha] [alpha] keytime [enter] > - Select TOOL menu then PURGE > { X Y Z } PURGE You can feed a list of names to many commands. I find creating a list of > variables directly from the variable menu very useful. Okay... I still think that itÇs a lot of buttons to push to purge a variable, so thatÇs keeping me from using them as much as I would have really appreciate that. Best wishes to everybody in this group :-) Martin J. ==== Very sad that such a minor issue is going to keep you from using one of the best features of the HP48/49, personally I think it's extremely short sighted. With unlimimited variables and directory tree purging is normally done on multiple variables and not single variables as on more restrictive calculators such as the TI's. Unlimited means it doesn't matter if a few unwanted variables build up to be deleted at a later time. In terms of variable storage the 48/49 are like a drive in a computer and file management housekeeping is needed. Here are a few things I do to help housekeeping on the 49: - Reuse standard single letter variables for quick calcs like X,Y,Z etc. It is standard practice in maths that these represent unknowns. I never bother purging these and are normally kept at the head of VAR list for easy use. - X is very handy as the plotting and CAS functions all default or have shortcuts for this variable and X is available on the keyboard without using the Alpha key. - Day to day calcs are done in the home directory. Anything that proves useful is moved to an appropriatly named directory for latter use, the rest of the variables can be purged at you leisure or ignored. - When it is necessary to keep something stored permanently in the home menu. - The File Manager is very easy to use for major housekeeping tasks like moving and renaming. All tasks can be done quicker from the keyboard but the file manager takes less brain power which is normally in short supply. Finally if you don't want to take advantage of this feature you can just ignore purging variable and let them build up in memory. With the 48/49 it will be a long time before you run short of memory. A great improvement for the next Rom update would be to have the commands like PURGE that accepts lists of variables to behave like Wolfgang's hide command which with one command allows the entry of single or multiple variables. Let's ignore arguments that the 49 should never have moved the purge command from the keyboard and just leave it as a HP Marketing/Management lead stuff up. Stephen N. > ->KEYTIME with no spaces is the actual command ie the right arrow is > actually the first character in the command name. So try > 300 [enter] [rightshift] 0 [alpha] [alpha] keytime [enter] > - Select TOOL menu then PURGE > { X Y Z } PURGE > You can feed a list of names to many commands. I find creating a list of > variables directly from the variable menu very useful. > Okay... I still think that itÇs a lot of buttons to push to purge a > variable, so thatÇs keeping me from using them as much as I would have > really appreciate that. Best wishes to everybody in this group :-) Martin J. ==== About your comments: > - Day to day calcs are done in the home directory. Anything that proves > useful is moved to an appropriatly named directory for latter use, the rest > of the variables can be purged at you leisure or ignored. > - When it is necessary to keep something stored permanently in the home > menu. I just downloaded the program... YouÇve just solved another of my problems I think... > - The File Manager is very easy to use for major housekeeping tasks like > moving and renaming. All tasks can be done quicker from the keyboard but > the file manager takes less brain power which is normally in short supply. YouÇre absolutely right :-) > Finally if you don't want to take advantage of this feature you can just > ignore purging variable and let them build up in memory. With the 48/49 it > will be a long time before you run short of memory. No, because I hate it whenever I then once in a while has to find a variable between a lot of crappy garbage variables - I like it clean and thatÇs why I hate to make those stupid small variables and delete them before they take over the power of my calc and fills it with crappy garbage :-) I just thought that there would be an easier way of purging variables than the way I used to do it, but it seems like the many of you also do it the way I do. > A great improvement for the next Rom update would be to have the commands > like PURGE that accepts lists of variables to behave like Wolfgang's hide > command which with one command allows the entry of single or multiple > variables. And when do you think thatÇll be? I havenÇt been into this group for more than about 3 months or so. WhoÇll make the next update? > Let's ignore arguments that the 49 should never have moved the purge command > from the keyboard and just leave it as a HP Marketing/Management lead stuff > up. Yeah... Martin J. ==== > Let's ignore arguments that the 49 should never have moved the purge >command > from the keyboard and just leave it as a HP Marketing/Management lead >stuff > up. >Yeah... If you don't like the fact that PURGE is no longer on the keyboard, put it back with built in userkeys, or keyman. You can place it where ever you choose, but how about on one of the delete key planes? Bill alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) ==== > I'd like some kind of utility that you could personalise that would > automaticaly set the display type depending on the size of the number. Say > <10^5 use 4 FIX else 4 ENG etc. Also like to have option for 1000's seperater in STD mode. Eric Rechlin discusses how to do the thousands separator in a file called thousand.zip from hpcalc.org. I haven't tried it. Another thing I haven't tried but might be the answer to your number-format: if you turn on Custom Enter (flag -63 set), the Enter key will run programs in variables called alpha-enter and beta-enter each time you press it. I forget the finer points of doing this - maybe a UserRPL guru can come to the rescue. Bill ==== > I'd like some kind of utility that you could personalise that would > automaticaly set the display type depending on the size of the number. Say > <10^5 use 4 FIX else 4 ENG etc. Yeah... > Also like to have option for 1000's seperater in STD mode. Eric Rechlin discusses how to do the thousands separator in a file > called thousand.zip from hpcalc.org. I haven't tried it. I downloaded it now, and it seems to solve the problem. But as far as I know thereÇs a little stupid bug in the program. I havenÇt programmed much for this calculator, so I hope that someone can optimize the code (as requested by the author of the program). As far as I know, the program doesnÇt consider whether there already are thousand separators in the number or not. And if you add a number to the the calculated number the thousand separators should be moved and this program canÇt handle that, nor do I think that it can make it an integer again, after placing the thousand separators... %%HP: T(3)A(R)F(.); << ->STR IF -51 FS? THEN . ELSE , END SWAP SWAP DUPDUP SIZE WHILE DUP 3. > REPEAT DUPDUP 6. ROLLD 2. - SWAP SUB 5. PICK SWAP + ROT + SWAP DUP 4. ROLL 3. - END DUP 3. - SWAP SUB ROT + NIP NIP > Another thing I haven't tried but might be the answer to your > number-format: if you turn on Custom Enter (flag -63 set), the Enter > key will run programs in variables called alpha-enter and beta-enter > each time you press it. I forget the finer points of doing this - > maybe a UserRPL guru can come to the rescue. Huuh? I tried it now and as far as I know the calc operates just like normal...... Hope somebody can explain how to solve the problem in a good way.... The thousand program is the best thing as far as I know... followed by assigning STD and 3 ENG + 6 ENG + 9 ENG I think.... Martin.. ==== time for fun :) get a piece of paper and draw to small vertical lines (|) then at the top of each line write (pi-1) and (pi+1). now you can find pi with infinite precision. it is in the middle! what you don't believe me? now that you know the secret, whenever you are in a test and you don't know an answer, draw a circle. later on, challenge the teacher and tell him that the answer was obvious because the answer is inside the circle! go to the restaurant and order the best meal, then draw a donut in a napkin (that will be your money).when it is time to pay, give them the napkin. if things heat up, pull out your hp49g and show the big guy at the door (the one blocking your way out) that he is wrong! the circle has plenty of power. never underestimate it. drink pepsy, enjoy your body. :) hi hi hi ==== Hoe do you convert different units with the 49g? I can enter a value and make it cm, or m/s, or whatever, but I can't change it to something else. ==== > Hoe do you convert different units with the 49g? I can enter a value and > make it cm, or m/s, or whatever, but I can't change it to something else. Actually, you can! Several methods: - Leftshift whatever unit you want to convert to. - put 0_unit that you want to convert to and press add - use the CONVERT command -- Kenyon Ralph | www.theralphs.us | Semper Fi ==== > Several methods: - Leftshift whatever unit you want to convert to. How? What do you mean with leftshift? Nothing happens if you open the units box and then click the leftarrow and then ok. - put 0_unit that you want to convert to and press add Which add? I'm thinking that you have the hp48g(x) instead of the hp49g, cause it doesn't work the same way! - use the CONVERT command Now this actually works :-) 2: 5_cm^3 1: 1_m^3 Find the CONVERT command (not the convert button) and then you get: 1: 0.000005_m^3 Isn't there another way on the hp49g? I find it annoying that you have to write 1_UNITYOUWANTTOCONVERTTO everytime. Anders ==== > - Leftshift whatever unit you want to convert to. How? What do you mean with leftshift? Nothing happens if you open the > units box and then click the leftarrow and then ok. I was assuming the usage of softkey menus (the better way in my opinion). > - put 0_unit that you want to convert to and press add Which add? I'm thinking that you have the hp48g(x) instead of the hp49g, > cause it doesn't work the same way! I'm assuming RPN mode is being used. If you're in algebraic it should still work, just do 1_cm + 0_m ENTER. But I haven't tried that since I don't use algebraic mode. > - use the CONVERT command Now this actually works :-) > 2: 5_cm^3 > 1: 1_m^3 > Find the CONVERT command (not the convert button) and then you get: > 1: 0.000005_m^3 Isn't there another way on the hp49g? I find it annoying that you have > to write 1_UNITYOUWANTTOCONVERTTO everytime. The leftshift way is what you're looking for. In RPN mode and soft menu (flag 117) it's like this: rightshift UNITS TIME 1: 5_min leftshift s 1: 300_s -- Kenyon Ralph | www.theralphs.us | Semper Fi ==== Between the two of you, you more than answered my question. :) I changed my calculator to softkey menus, (boy is this ever a good idea!) however, now that I have all the different units at the bottom of my screen, how do I put it back to the standard menu? I can get back if I do a reboot, but there must be a simple way. I hope. Alex. > - Leftshift whatever unit you want to convert to. > How? What do you mean with leftshift? Nothing happens if you open the > units box and then click the leftarrow and then ok. I was assuming the usage of softkey menus (the better way in my opinion). > - put 0_unit that you want to convert to and press add > Which add? I'm thinking that you have the hp48g(x) instead of the hp49g, > cause it doesn't work the same way! I'm assuming RPN mode is being used. If you're in algebraic it should still > work, just do 1_cm + 0_m ENTER. But I haven't tried that since I don't use > algebraic mode. > - use the CONVERT command > Now this actually works :-) > 2: 5_cm^3 > 1: 1_m^3 > Find the CONVERT command (not the convert button) and then you get: > 1: 0.000005_m^3 > Isn't there another way on the hp49g? I find it annoying that you have > to write 1_UNITYOUWANTTOCONVERTTO everytime. The leftshift way is what you're looking for. In RPN mode and soft menu > (flag 117) it's like this: rightshift UNITS TIME > 1: 5_min > leftshift s > 1: 300_s -- > Kenyon Ralph | www.theralphs.us | Semper Fi ==== > I changed my calculator to softkey menus, (boy is this ever a good idea!) > however, now that I have all the different units at the bottom of my screen, > how do I put it back to the standard menu? What do you mean by the standard menu? There is no standard menu. Via STARTUP you can make any menu your personal standard menu. If you mean the VARS menu simply press VARS. As a matter of fact, for no task the RPN mode is more urgendly needed as for unit-management. And once you got used to it, you can completely customize the entire UNIT system with Unitman on hpcalc.org (which has got Eric's famous GetIt star :-) - Wolfgang PS. Unfortunately, the HP49 handbooks completely ignore the consise description of the famous and clever unit-management of the 48, although still present on the 49, but neglected. Including, in particular, unit-conversion with left-shift. According to HP itself, the smart HP48 unit-management was a main reason for the success of the 48-series. The HP49 OS should be programmed as follows: in the very moment a unit-menu is launched no matter whether in Algebraic or RPN mode, the leftshift menu keys Y=, WIN, etc should switch to the units conversion mode as presently only in RPN-mode. The shifting of the functionalities Y=, WIN etc to leftshift-hold in RPN mode, is a fauler Kompromiss as we say in German. This could have completely be avoided. a r I can get back if I do a reboot, > but there must be a simple way. I hope. Alex. - Leftshift whatever unit you want to convert to. > > How? What do you mean with leftshift? Nothing happens if you open the > units box and then click the leftarrow and then ok. > I was assuming the usage of softkey menus (the better way in my opinion). > - put 0_unit that you want to convert to and press add > > Which add? I'm thinking that you have the hp48g(x) instead of the hp49g, > cause it doesn't work the same way! > I'm assuming RPN mode is being used. If you're in algebraic it should > still > work, just do 1_cm + 0_m ENTER. But I haven't tried that since I don't > use > algebraic mode. > - use the CONVERT command > > Now this actually works :-) > 2: 5_cm^3 > 1: 1_m^3 > Find the CONVERT command (not the convert button) and then you get: > 1: 0.000005_m^3 > > Isn't there another way on the hp49g? I find it annoying that you have > to write 1_UNITYOUWANTTOCONVERTTO everytime. > The leftshift way is what you're looking for. In RPN mode and soft menu > (flag 117) it's like this: > rightshift UNITS TIME > 1: 5_min > leftshift s > 1: 300_s > -- > Kenyon Ralph | www.theralphs.us | Semper Fi > ==== Sorry if this was already discussed, I searched for it but didn't find an answer.. My question is if Debug4x HP48/49 SDK 2.0.0 posted in calc.org on it with Emu48 DLL Patch for HP49 SDK 1.32. thanxs, LEAP ==== > My question is if Debug4x HP48/49 SDK 2.0.0 posted in calc.org on > it with Emu48 DLL Patch for HP49 SDK 1.32. > AFAIR debug4x I downloaded a few days ago from hpcalc.org has an Emu48 dll from late December, 2002 However, even if it's not the latest version, it's still usable, and updates may come as necessary. Raymond ==== > My question is if Debug4x HP48/49 SDK 2.0.0 posted in calc.org on > it with Emu48 DLL Patch for HP49 SDK 1.32. It already has the 1.32 EMU48.dll. In the future you can do: 1. right click the emu48.dll, select properties and then version to see the version -or- For updates, just copy the emu48.exe and emu48.dll updates and other files to the proper folder. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ==== > is definitely obsolate for the font browser ChFnt > of Fontman which looks for fonts in any port. There > is absolutely no need for recalculation modulo 245. You missed Joe's point. I think you read it too fast You can perfectly have a font with an ID > 244, fact that has never been denied. But you won't be able to use them in the text editor due to how changing style is coded inside the string As an example try this: Store all your fonts in either HOME or PORT0, including those with an ID > 244 (for FONT) none of the font with an ID > 244 will appear. Now on a side note, I don't see much point to have permanently a tool on your calculator allowing you to change the ID of the font. You're going to use it on a very rare occasion. The idea being an ID font is to have an universal coding so if you take a text with embedded styiling it will look the same on any machines. Not just on yours. If you change the ID of a font and you're the only one doing it that way, you won't be able to send your document without loosing its style ==== > You missed Joe's point. I think you read it too fast Yes, I'll add some remark to Fontman.txt but the parameter changer will continue to recalculate modulo 256 (not 245). By the way, the command DOCHR calculates itself modulo 256 with the nullcharacter for negative argumemts. > I don't see much point to have permanently a tool on > your calculator allowing you to change the ID of the font. You're > going to use it on a very rare occasion. Thats right. Fontman is useful only for those creating new fonts, but since Fontman is smaller than any font, one can afford to have it in a port even for rare occasion. Very useful for specialists. E.g., I generated a font 7 (LogicFnt) which is more readable than the builtin Font7 and useful for math and logic. Since I intend to publish it, it should have its own ID. > ... if you take a text with embedded styiling it will look > for the same on any machines. Not just on yours. If I understand correctly, the OS looks for the ID o n l y if some styling is embedded, otherwise the font ID is ignored. I'll add this interesting information to Fontman.txt. Maybe it is in the Metakernel docu but I never read it :-) Wolfgang ==== Is Java compatible with Metakernel? I'm thinking of getting a GX and loading it to the gills with software 'cause I don't want a 49 Ollie. ==== As can be deduced from the documentation of both packages, they are both stack replacement programs (with some extras .... Get an HP48GX and use MK on a 128 kB card (slot 1). (If you have money to spare and you are interested in SysRPL programming, get a second 128 kB (for slot 1) card and load it with Jazz light and Java, or get a 256 kB or bigger card (for slot 2) and install Jazz full and use the JAZZ command. You have to take the MK card out of slot 1 then.) Caspar Oliver Cairncross schreef in bericht > Is Java compatible with Metakernel? I'm thinking of getting a GX and loading it to the gills with software > 'cause I don't want a 49 > Ollie. > ==== And yes, I know the MK can be used for SysRPL as well, actually not as well as Jazz... Caspar Caspar Lugtmeier & Eva Skotarczak schreef in As can be deduced from the documentation of both packages, they are both > stack replacement programs (with some extras .... > Get an HP48GX and use MK on a 128 kB card (slot 1). (If you have money to spare and you are interested in SysRPL programming, > get a second 128 kB (for slot 1) card and load it with Jazz light and Java, > or get a 256 kB or bigger card (for slot 2) and install Jazz full and use > the JAZZ command. You have to take the MK card out of slot 1 then.) Caspar > Oliver Cairncross schreef in bericht > Is Java compatible with Metakernel? > I'm thinking of getting a GX and loading it to the gills with software > 'cause I don't want a 49 > > Ollie. > > ==== > No: but the good thing is that you will not miss Java when using MK (IMHO) I miss the pretty-view for matrix in MK :-( ==== I've just agreed a trade with another calculator's fool, so I'll put my hands in a 42S in *very* good condition soon I've completed an ace's poker: 15c, 32SII, 42S and 48GX... ==== >I've completed an ace's poker: 15c, 32SII, 42S and 48GX... > What, No HP41? Bill alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) ==== I'm trying to use kermit to transfer files from my pc to the hp48g and it can't connect to my calculator, I was wondering if somebody knows if one have to do something with the serial port in the computer before start to transfer or running the program, is there a way to test the serial cable? ==== > I'm trying to use kermit to transfer files from my pc to the hp48g and it > can't connect to my calculator, I was wondering if somebody knows if one > have to do something with the serial port in the computer before start to > transfer or running the program, is there a way to test the serial cable? To use Kermit, make sure that the kermit software is set in Server Mode before you connect. The calculator will then handel the rest of the transfer for you. ==== What country are you from? Just curious. Toby just in case someone wonders about > that new poster 'Raymond Del Tondo'. > It's me. My girl and me got married yesterday, > and since we didn't want a double name, > nor two separate names, > I took the name of her family. Raymond (Del Tondo [former Hellstern]) ==== Congratulations!!!!!!! Hope she doesn't mind your girlfriend, ahh meant 48/9 ;^) 18yrs this May.... just in case someone wonders about > that new poster 'Raymond Del Tondo'. > It's me. My girl and me got married yesterday, > and since we didn't want a double name, > nor two separate names, > I took the name of her family. Raymond (Del Tondo [former Hellstern]) ==== Raymond Del Tondo escribi.97 en el mensaje My girl and me got married yesterday Read my answer in the hpmuseum forum. ==== just in case someone wonders about that new poster 'Raymond Del Tondo'. It's me. My girl and me got married yesterday, and since we didn't want a double name, nor two separate names, I took the name of her family. Raymond (Del Tondo [former Hellstern]) ==== >My girl and me got married yesterday, and since we didn't want a double >name, nor two separate names, I took the name of her family. I never realised that honeymoon suites now came with Internet connections :-) Congratulations! -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== Hey I wanted to move 2 of my own programmes to the flash memory on port 2 (HP49G). It worked fine, but I saw that my already installed programmes (in port 0) disappeared from the lib menu! I can find them under 0: and then see their lib. number, but I can't execute them anymore! If I type the commands (or picks them from the CAT list) then I get an error with XLIB (not defined or something). I tried to warm-start my hp, but then the commands disappeared from the CAT menu! Is there anyway that I can correct this? Or do I need to remove the libraries and transfer them and install them again? Please help me! Anders ==== hi Joe, Nick, what an interesting topic! would you mind if i jump in? in my opinion, reality and existence are two different things. reality is what we come to know through interpretation (by becoming aware of). we become aware of existing things (or other things that don't exist like abstractions, symbols, or whatever) through interpretation. reality is interpretation (the nature of reality is interpretation). we come to know things through interpretation and this 'know' is what we call reality. yes, things exist, no doubt, but the thing is interpreted in a suitable manner that suits the interpreter. existence by itself does not form reality. an object that exists can have different realities to different observers depending on the interpretation of each person. the ultimate interpretation is the one we do in order to live. we see things in a way that allows us to keep living. a fictitious point can have reality (can be real) and yet not exist. also an object can exist and yet not have reality (by us not being aware of it). reality is relative, it doesn't exist outside a person (or machine). reality has no existence outside of the mind. > [OT. Yes, Nick, I'm in the same boat as you: thinking out loud and always > eager to learn, because learning is massively fun. -jkh-] > mean for searching reality. Sorry. The very thought that things perdure even when I'm not thinking > about them (proven repeatedly by ordinary experience every day) is > sufficient to convince me that there is something (called reality) outside > of my mind which exists independently of my mind and which is not effected > by my thoughts about it. Ergo, by my claim that pi is real, I do not confuse reality with the > observed. > No, it seems to me that you sometimes confuse reality with what > you wish to exist. It all fits so wonderful in a simple picture, if the > wished to be distance PI EMED, can be assumed to exist a priori. > But the wish for an easy picture is not a proof. Ok, here's a PROOF: Let's suppose that the point PI EMED does NOT exist in reality, but only > exists as a concept in my mind. Ah, but point and location are > identical. So, if a point does not really exist, then that location does > not exist, and is a mere fiction, like the Land of Nod. One thing is > certain about locations that don't exist: you can't go there. Therefore, if > PI EMED does not really exist, then you would be unable to go there. Since > that is patently absurd (what's gonna happen if you try? gonna run into a > brick wall that stops you?), the original supposition must be false (by > process of reductio ad absurdum) and we have thus PROVED that the point PI > EMED *does* exist in external reality, Q.E.D. Anyway, you talked about another definition of precision and > accuracy. Where is it? I don't see any here. > > Correspondence between two aspects of reality, whether observed > or not. > Still I see no definition. Only interpretations. Suppose I say, A and B are in EXACTLY the same place (or PRECISELY the same > location). I'm not interpreting anything, or measuring anything. I'm > saying that their locations CORRESPOND. In mathematical terms, they > coextend, and if they are points, they are identical points. This is true > whether measured or not, whether known or not. Example: Is the warped > spiral galaxy ESO 510-13 http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap010803.html a > single galaxy that's warped (as everybody claims) or *two* galaxies seen > edge-on, one in front of the other, and slightly askew from it (as I > believe)? It *really is* one or the other (or some third as-yet-unimagined > situation!) and really WAS that before mankind came along and might very > well continue being what it really is long after we're gone. Scientists > take great delight in cooking up hypotheses like these, and then VERIFYING > them, which means seeing whether they CORRESPOND to REALITY or not. P.S. Not every number has to be located the way you described. > > True, but real numbers do, no? > No. Depends on what you accept as a valid way to construct the > corresponding distance. Locate PI on a straight line. You can't, if > you are allowed to use only ruler and.. the other thing with the two > legs, what's its name, compass?, Well I think you know which > instrument I mean. AAuuggghhh!!! Yes, WE can't LOCATE it... but it's REALLY THERE! If it were > not, then what the heck is the point of math (no pun intended)? Proof: If > it were NOT really there, then ANY talk about locating it with accuracy is > pointless (pun intended) since that kind of accuracy is determined by the > error, the distance between where I think pi is and where the REAL pi is. > How can that distance exist if there is no REAL pi? Similar situation to PI EMED: If there were no real pi on a number line, > then there would have to be a discontinuity there and you wouldn't be able > to go through that point, but you can, so there isn't, ergo pi exists. I > suppose a black hole might exist at PI EMED, but if it did, it'd be even > EASIER to go there, although the final approach would suck. Anyway, we started with precision and accuracy. There are strict > definitions of those quantities. The philosophical part doesn't offer > definitions but rather what each an every brain conceives and > thinks/wishes true, because it seems to make sense. Ah, but you accept those strict definitions ONLY because THEY make sense. > Otherwise you're caught in an infinite regression: These strict definitions > are based solidly on other solid definitions, which are based on something > else, which, um, well, at some point it becomes *obvious*. In math, we > call such a thing an axiom, defined as a self-evident truth that requires > no proof. But some people claim that even self-evident things need proof. > So I did (see above). What say you? -Joe- > Ever rule has an exception is its own sole exception. ==== > Is there any command to simplify exp(n*ln(x)) to x^n? I have some large > equations, and they'd be easier to read if this was simplified. A small example: > I want 5^n - 1 instead of (exp((n+1)*ln(5))-5)/5 It gets more complicated with larger equations, any ideas? Try the command: EXP2POW It s in the [LS] [CONVERT] [REWRITE] menu. (ROM 1.19-6) Hope this helps! Alex Markatis Civil Engineer Greece ==== > Try the command: EXP2POW It s in the [LS] [CONVERT] [REWRITE] menu. > (ROM 1.19-6) I had to simplify it after the EXP2POW command and then do the EXP2POW -- Al ==== >This is a question to those having a particular deep insight in the OS >of the 48/49 like Jonathan, Werner, Raymond and perhaps some others. Let the program :: CK1&Dispatch BINT 31 #>CHR ; be called B2C. It >transforms a single bint or a nonempty list of bints into a character or >a list of characters, resp, checking also whether a list contains indeed >only bints and nothing else. The following program will be called $~BL. It toggles a list of bints >with a string of characters which correspond to the bints. This program >is useful because it compresses a very long bint-list into a string of >half of the size. Used, e.g., in programming the well-known tool ACC >which draws a nice clock face with all its little numbers and which >updates every second. $~BL uses Jurjen's trick, the most dirty and >efficient return stack trick I ever seen: >:: > CH1N0LASTWD DUPTYPECSTR? MOTcase > :: > ID B2C >R NULL$ BEGIN RSWAP ticR NOTcase COLA_EVAL RSWAP >T$ AGAIN > ; > DUPLEN$ #1+_ONE_DO DUPINDEX@ SUB$1# SWAPLOOP LEN$ {}N >; Line 4 runs phantastically fast. The problem is, if the occurring name >ID B2C is replaced by its program, the dispatching doesn't anymore work >on a list of bints. Who knows why and how to fix this phenomenum? Hope on an answer, > Wolfgang As pointed out by Joe Horn, the CK1&Dispatch entry is only meant to be called from *within a library routine* and furthermore it has to be the first object in that routine. To understand why this is the case, we need to look at the internals of CK1&Dispatch. Upon decompilation, one finds that CK1&Dispatch branches to a certain entry when the second pass, which strips tags from the stack arguments and repeats the matching process, has completed and still no match has been found in the object type list. This entry is #72EA5 on the 48G/GX and #22D1D on the 49 ( 1.19-6 ) and is responsible for the automatic list processing. If we look at the decompilation of the above entry, we see it contains a check that the ROMPTR body, which is *assumed* to precede the routine pointed to by LASTROMWDOB ( the last executed library command, which is set to point to the B2C secondary in this case ), has a library ID field that is less than #700. ( libraries with an ID greater than or equal to this number are the so called macro roms ) It is pure chance that the 6 nibbles preceding your B2C program in memory satisfy the above condition. Any object pointer whose address's last 2 nibbles are greater than #6F will violate this condition, as happens when you precede your program by a DOCOL. A fix, or more appropriately a kludge, to *guarantee* that the nibbles preceding your code are acceptable to CK1&Dispatch, is to prepend a code object whose last 6 nibbles are zero, as in the following example : CODE GOVLNG =Loop CON(6) 0 ENDCODE :: CK1&Dispatch 31 #>CHR ; Still, there are drawbacks to the above approach, namely that any errors generated by CK1&Dispatch will result in an error string that attributes it's cause to a garbage XLIB name. Because of this, you can see that your initial CK1NOLASTWD is superfluous. CK1 would work just as well. There are ways to get around these problems, but AFAIK they are all complicated and convoluted (*), which possibly outweighs the size advantage gained by using the built in list processing in the first place. (*) Note that the preceding paragraph doesn't apply if for some reason you are using CK1&Dispatch from within a library routine but not at the beginning. In that case you can replace the CON(6) 0 by the body of the ROMPTR that points to the currently executing library routine. In that way, if an error occurs it will be attributed correctly and you can avoid all of the complications entailed by trying to get correct error attribution outside of a library routine. Here is one such way : CODE =SysNib20 EQU #80814 LC(5) =SysNib20 CD0EX A=0 A DAT0=A 1 D0=C D0=D0+ 10 GOVLNG (=CK&DISPATCH1)+5 ENDCODE ASSEMBLE - RPL :: CK1&Dispatch 31 #>CHR 5 :: CODE LC(5) =SysNib20 CD0EX A=DAT0 1 ?A#0 P GOYES error A=A+1 A DAT0=A 1 D0=C A=C A LC(5) (+)-(-) A=A-C A GOVLNG =DOBINT error D0=C GOVLNG (=SETTYPEERR)+5 + ENDCODE ROMPTR 0E8 0D ; ; A significant amount of complication can be removed from the above if you allow it to work on lists within lists and/or if nothing your program does or calls changes CPU status bit 5. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== > To understand why this is the case, we need to look at the > internals of CK1&Dispatch. Upon decompilation, one finds that ... answers. You don't simply underline that this or that is impossible or forbidden, you explain to us why it is so. Unfortunately, your postings became more rare (maybe for well-known reason). Please continue with your contributions, times lead not always to a worse direction :-) ==== I am the proud owner of a new hp49g. I indulged into the resources > available on the net since the manuals didn't get me starting off that > good. I noticed that there was some problems with serial ports on the > first batches of the hp49g. What has the serial number on the back of > the calculator have to be in order for it not to have a defective > serial port? http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/faq/ 6.2 No matter what I do, I cannot get my HP49 to communicate with some computers Early versions of the HP49 (those with serial number under ID94...) have a buggy serial port. If you have one of these calculators, call HP tech support and get the calculator replaced with a fixed model. First reported by Marcel Flipse, the first HP49's had improperly wired serial port buffers, causing them to send a weakened/distorted signal. This causes computers with off-brand motherboards (including Macintoshes) to have trouble communicating with the calculator. > Further more, what is the best route to follow to get to grips with > this machine? Which of the documents available will be best to start > with, or is it a matter of trail and error towards one's own > interests. I'm a civil engineering student. Best place to start is to check out: www.hpcalc.org ==== Mike Ross skrev i en meddelelse > I am new to this process and i'm having no luck getting my hp connected to > my pc. I get the calculator in server mode but the connectivity program > refuses to recognize the connection. I'm using Windows ME. Any suggestions > for a novice? I think I can help you (I hope)! I had the same problem, when I got my HP49G (about 5 months ago). I spend hours and hours wondering what where wrong, and then I found out that the only reason that the connectivity failed was because the flow-control option should not be set to hardware (opposite of what I was used to, when I used modem). Instead XON/XOFF makes the solution to my problem. At that time, when I didnÇt knew any of the calculator software I used hyperterminal, that ships with windows, for connecting to my 49G. Hope that my post helps you. Martin J. ==== On the HP49G is it possible to constrain variables say when taking the limit. For example the variable a in what follows. limit(a^x) for x->+oo when 0 On the HP49G is it possible to constrain variables say when taking the > limit. For example the variable a in what follows. > limit(a^x) for x->+oo when 0 P.S. Off topic: On the shuttle during reentry there is a plasma produced, is it not > possible to shield the shuttle from it with some form of > electromagnetic field like they do in a tokomak reactor. just speculating Yes, maybe? but then the payload is always one huge tokamak system maybe better/thicker surface material is a lighter thus better solution. ==== > Happy scrolling, > Hey, thatÇs cool. Why isnÇt that standard? IÇm gonna put that PDIM-thing, right away into my startup-variable so that I donÇt have to erase and redraw the graph-view each time I found out that I should move the view for example down, left, up, etc. etc. Martin J. ==== I typed your expression into the Equation Writer, selected (or highlighted) the entire expression and hit the SIMPLIFY key (F6) and got 15625Y^16*X^20. Is that what you are trying to get? Dave > I was wondering how to simplify something on the 49G. EX. (X*Y^2)^2 * (5X^3*Y^2)^6 Advice Would Be Greatly Appreciated, > THANXS IN ADVANCE, CID > ==== There is a problem when EMU48 is run for the very first time. After > selecting the KML there is no button to press. One has to bring up the > virtual keyboard and press . The emulator will then load. Was this > your problem? If not can you let me know how you fixed your lock up. > I was going to try the tips here: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3666 Now that the emulator is running I find it the LCD display to refresh slowly. Also sometimes the emulator seems to grab 100% of the CPU time when I exit it. Hmmm... Dale. ==== > Do you get weird numbers when you download it, or when you attempt to run it? > What are the numbers, incorrect results or strange unintelligable characters? Yeah, the program is stored as a string. I guess it was made with HP User edit, its a PC program that uses those weird chars to send the program to the emulator as a string. I think that the author didnt even take the time to delete thos chars and store the program as a program. Oh well. working version of the program that he translated from the 48 version with some cool program. The point is, it works perfectly on the emulator, but it crashes in the calculator. Same rom version (19.6). Anyone got any ideas on that problem? ==== _Michaelangelo_ schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I am finally getting around to writing my RPG for the HP48/49. I want > the animation speed to be the same whether the game is running on a > 48SX, 48GX, or a 49. As I understand it, the 48SX runs at ~ 2 MHz, > the 48GX at ~ 4 Mhz. Q1. What speed does the 49 run at? > A1: About the same (clock) speed as the HP-48G(X), at about 3.6 to just below 4MHz. > Q2. What would people recommend is the best practise to have the game > run at the same speed regarless of what calc it is running on? Should > I redraw the screen twice as often on the GX? :) Use a delay loop? > etc. > A2: Use a delay loop (see A4 below) > Q3. Sasm.doc, on the Goodies disk #4, lists the clock cycles for each > (SX) mnemonic. Are these valid for the GX as well? What about clock > cycles on the 49? It's using the same Saturn CPU, correct? > A3: Cycle times are dependant on clock speed, cycle counts are not. So if you have cycle counts, the SX values are valid for the GX as well AFAIK the 49G uses a compatible CPU, but not exactly the same chip as in the 48, so I don't know if cycle counts have changed there. > Q4. How do I read the clock from ML? > A4: Read the System RAM location =CSPEED , which is the CPU speed in 16 Hz units. Addresses: SX: #704D6h GX: #80655h 49: ??? > Q5. How are people profiling there ML code? Is there a way to do this > at run-time? I don't see a timestamp register to read from. :( I > could use the clock, but what is the accuracy I should expect? > A5: Use Debug4x, which features a profiling tool. > Sorry if these questions have been asked before. > No problem. But many questions have been answered on www.hpcalc.org Raymond ==== Q3. Sasm.doc, on the Goodies disk #4, lists the clock cycles for each > (SX) mnemonic. Are these valid for the GX as well? What about clock > cycles on the 49? It's using the same Saturn CPU, correct? >A3: >Cycle times are dependant on clock speed, >cycle counts are not. >So if you have cycle counts, the SX values are valid for the GX as well Actually, they aren't. The SX CPU (Clarke) was redesigned for the GX so as to make all the instructions about twice as fast. This has been confirmed by Dave Arnett and empirical evidence such as these cycle counts : http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1707 http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4923 The speed increase probably comes from the ALU running at twice the clock speed as the rest of the chip. That would partly explain why you have fractional cycle counts on the GX. AFAIK the 49G uses a compatible CPU, but not exactly the same chip as in the >48, >so I don't know if cycle counts have changed there. The 49 uses the same IC as the 48G/GX, namely the Yorke. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== > I am finally getting around to writing my RPG for the HP48/49. I want > the animation speed to be the same whether the game is running on a > 48SX, 48GX, or a 49. As I understand it, the 48SX runs at ~ 2 MHz, > the 48GX at ~ 4 Mhz. Q1. What speed does the 49 run at? 48G=49G =2*48S > Q2. What would people recommend is the best practise to have the game > run at the same speed regarless of what calc it is running on? Should > I redraw the screen twice as often on the GX? :) Use a delay loop? > etc. How about going for grayscale (twice the pixels) ?? Jonathan? > Q3. Sasm.doc, on the Goodies disk #4, lists the clock cycles for each > (SX) mnemonic. Are these valid for the GX as well? What about clock > cycles on the 49? It's using the same Saturn CPU, correct? 48S # 48G=49G > Q4. How do I read the clock from ML? Beats me? > Q5. How are people profiling there ML code? Is there a way to do this > at run-time? I don't see a timestamp register to read from. :( I > could use the clock, but what is the accuracy I should expect? ??? PS: One more note: code on odd/even address takes more/less clocks! ==== You can make a serial cable. See in the Eric Rechlin Web site (www.hpcalc.org), the pinouts from Enrico Carta. Type in the window (search!) ... enrico carta Other options: 1) Consult in www.hp.com for ... HP-F1897A (Connectivity Pack). Your cost is aprox. U$S 30 2)The SAMSON cables in ... www.samsoncables.com Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK (M.A.C.H.) **************************************************************************** *** > I'm in need of a new cable for my 48SX.....any help locating one would be > appreciated. ==== there are two commands in the manual of HP49G to help 1) Press ON and than F3 2) Stick a paper clip in the hole of the backside of calculator for a second, pull it back and press ON. Both actions set the calculator in the default modus. Let me know what you have done. Hans Joachim (.de) > Only thing I can see on screen is No System and a list of options. Can > someone help me how to restore my calculator. It seems that I've > pressed the wrong button and erased everything on my calc. Really > don't know how it happened. Blas > ==== Is it time for Silly Season? At least four of our senior, articulate users are flaming away at each other over topics that seem, at least at this remove, a bit vapourous. Since it appears to be global, I assume it wasn't terrorists dropping Nasty Pills into the water supply. Cosmic rays, perhaps? Bill ==== > Put '(z+i)/(z-i) = i/(4-1)' on the stack. > Put 'z' on the stack. > Execute the ISOL command. You will get > 'z=(2-4*i)/5' Is that close enough. No, not really. Because if I get this question at an examination, then I would have failed the test because the 49G step-by-step function doesnÇt ==== > Put '(z+i)/(z-i) = i/(4-1)' on the stack. Put 'z' on the stack. > Execute the ISOL command. > You will get 'z=(2-4*i)/5' > Is that close enough? Virgil, I think that some teachers would just not accept this and ask the student for further simplification, namely to z = 2/5 - 4/5*i. Now, as you know (e.g. from your solution of my problem with these cyclic sequences) neither EXPAND nor COLLECT nor SIMPLIFY and hence not ISOL end up with the solution in the form in the last paragraph (in exact complex mode, of course). It is not quite clear to me which normal forms the 49 CAS really uses for representing complex-valued algebraic terms. For a mathematician, it is most important to know which normal forms a CAS uses to represent terms in its best readable t_1 + t_2 * i is indeed the easiest readable normal form, where t_1 and t_2 are normal forms for real algebraic terms. In other words, real and imaginary part of an complex algebraic term should be separated. Any other normal form representation should at least be documented for the users of 49 CAS, but I cannot find any such documentation :-) Although (2-4*i)/5 = 2/5 - 4/5*i is as true as it only can be, I see no way to verify this equation in a *direct* way with the HP49-CAS. This shows, IMHO, a certain deficit of this system. - Wolfgang PS. Clearly, there may be different so-called normal forms for terms in a class of algebraic structures, in particular in rings and fields and in boolean algebra were one often uses the so-called canonical normal forms. These are not only important in theory but as well in practice. ==== Manel escribo: > 1.- When you simplify an equation or you want to solve > an equation system you are asked for RAD modes. > Could I change solving equations or anything in deegres > or gradians modes on new ROM by flags f.e.? No. Many operations require RAD mode. But here's a suggestion: set flag -120 and clear flag -123. That way, the calculator will switch modes quietly and automatically as needed. Also, make a key assignment that returns you to your favorite mode settings after the HP49G changes them. > 2.- Y <--> X INVERS FUNCTIONS. There will be any > command to exchange Y with X in functions? 'X' ISOL or 'X' SOLVE should do the trick. > 3.- OLD MENUS LIKE 30 WILL DISAPPEAR?. That is why the ASN command and USER mode exist. Assign << 75. TMENU > to a away. > THERE WILL ADD AN OPTION TO > DELETE ALL VARIABLE AFTER USE IT? This will purge the vars in 'EQ': << RCEQ LVAR AXL PURGE > Hey, everybody: is there an easier way? I got a feeling that there is, but I can't think of it. > 4.- SYNTAX COMMANDS. On HP-39 there are a > command SYNTAX than explains the syntax of a > command. There will be on new ROM? Press TOOL NXT and you'll see CASCMD (takes a command name as a string as its input) and HELP (takes no input). ALso, when you press the CAT key, the commands which have a syntax help available will show HELP on the F1 key. > 5.- Where say FULL TRANSLATION TO SPANISH > AND FRENCH means FULL. AT HELP COMMAND TO? Full? It's not full. It's not even *close* to full. But it's better than nothing. > 6.- ISOL COMMAND. Why I can't isolate the R or f > variable on this equation. > VDmin=sqr(8*R*f). Strange; it works on mine. Try purging those variables; solving usually fails if variables have stuff stored in them. The HP49G also has REALASSUME and similar commands that force the machine to treat any given variables in various ways. Be sure that you do not have any goofy variable settings in your 'CASDIR', or strange modes like complex mode or approximate mode or whatever. The CASCFG command resets the CAS settings to default; see if that helps. > 7.- Is The ROM totally finished? Yes. It is thoroughly coated with varnish. -Joe- ==== I read about this new ROM version,but it is true or I'm going mad? Where can I find it? Which are the improvements? (sorry for my english) Bye to all of you! ==== >X> PS. It is a shame for Hewlett&Packard that an expensive calculator is > sold to students, engineers and scientists with an obsolate ROM, well > knowing that the beta-version 1-19-6 and the meanwhile already prepared > version 19-7 is uncomparably better. I believe it would be no problem to > get it from the former ACO stuff even for nothing, and to make it at > once ROM 2.0. Best post from WR ever !!! I wish it were so, but Carley would have to give back some of her salary to do that. Harold A. Climer Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy U. Tennessee at Chattanooga ==== I was wondering what type of NiCad on NiM hydride batteries I would need for my old HP-25C. It still works, with the battery pack in and the charger plugged in, but the battery pack won't hold a charge. What is more amazing is that the battery pack has not corroded. Harold A. Climer Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy U. Tennessee at Chattanooga ==== > I didn't talk on any crash. It wasn't you who complained of warmstarts or hangs when poking into the last item in a backup directory? (which has a zero-length name, sometimes duplicated in earlier variables when variable hider hacking tools are used). > But your method of storing the empty dir in the nullname > is *misleading* because if doing it and entering a > nullnamed dir always says no entries. The point is, that it avoids warmstarts and potential crashes; I'm not interested in trying to explore any saved alarms and user key assignments (which are generally unviewable anyway), just in being crash-proof in case of an attempt to do so. Go back and create the directory I posted last time, then explore it with the filer -- of course you can not see the contents of the second variable (a directory) when there exists an identically named earlier variable; this has nothing to do with any special name associated with a hidden directory (which, in a backup stored in a port, has nothing to do with the current actual hidden directory in the real HOME), but is entirely a consequence of repeating *any* variable name, with the repetitions containing different object types. But because the filer's internal table records the second entry as being a directory, the filer tries to explore it anyway, although there is in fact no directory structure there at all in the earlier variable of the same name -- this is similar to presenting a wrong object type to an internal function without checking, and sometimes the price paid for such a mistake is a crash (which could be as severe as an immediate or subsequent memory wipeout, due to whatever slightly random events occur). It will be just fine with me if any subsequent ROM version of the filer is adjusted to defend itself against your particular variable hiding tool, or even adopts your own filer re-write, but as of this writing, it does not; therefore, I encourage you to protect the user by temporarily modifying the hider tool, until such time as the combination can be safe. > That may be OK outside the filer because it was so on the 48. > But the filer is a completely new tool and hence, > should be more intelligent than traditional tools. HP's design objectives need not have been to cater to hackers, but to make a product which works when used in accordance with its specs. Nonetheless, it is fine with anything except a variable hider that uses some different object type, which you seem to insist on doing, rather than accommodating the only versions of the ROM which exist today. > Who is responsible if the filer lies > if somebody uses your hiding tools? Lies is not the issue; crashes is what it does. You can readily, if you wish, re-issue your tools so that they will not be a danger when used with the existing available OS versions; only your psychology stands in the way :) > My tools always respect the reality. A very artificial reality of wishful thinking, that the product which consumers have in their hands contains what you would wish it to contain, instead of what it actually does contain. I have written programs which should work, but which I know will not work because of existing OS bugs; what should I do, then -- release my program which calc owners will not be able to use, and say it's all HP's fault that it fails or zaps your calc, or should I adapt my current release to what will actually work in the calc that the owner has in his hands? As far as I'm concerned, DOLIST and DOSUBS should accept empty lists and always return a result list, rather than lying and violating a cardinal principle of RPN (thou shalt always return either a predictable number of results on the stack, or a count or indicator of how many results you did return) -- but this has been violated ever since the 48G started production. This violation requires a lot of ugly and otherwise unnecessary extra user programming to make up for it; should I, then, have pouted and insisted upon publishing more elegant programs which don't actually work, telling people that if only the 48G/49G behaved as it should have, then my programming masterpieces would actually function? Or should I continue writing and posting things that actually work, in the light of the reality of how the calculator products actually behave, blemishes and all? > I don't see any need for storing the 6 byte empty dir > as a dummy in the nullname for hiding if a 3 bytes character > has the same effect. Except that it has the additional effect, in all current calculators and ROMs available to the public, of allowing a crash to occur; but what does that matter, as long as it saves three bytes? Which reminds me of some writings of John Ruskin (1819-1900), which are quite apropos in today's totally cost-conscious world (in which many ultimately greater costs are unfortunately ignored): It is unwise to pay too much, but it is worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the things it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot... it cannot be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for the something better. There is hardly anything in the world that some men cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey. See you all at Wal-Mart, then :) . ==== > I think this confirms a bug in the filer. That can readily be confirmed. But your directory MYDIR was created artificially, hence JYA may object that's your problem. I thought it over. There are several bugs we have to live with in ROM 19-6. My filers will not use any nullnamed dir for hiding purpose. I commented the various problems for newbees already in detail. Let me subsummize after lengthy discussion some filer bugs: 1. A HOME backup in a port is a directory which can be entered with RightArrow as can every backup of a directory. That may cause serious problems if the backup contains more than one nullnamed file. A new nullname is created by any hiding tool and should IMHO be respected. Fix proposition: The builtin filer should not allow to enter a HOME backup (which makes no sense anyway). Such a backup distinguishes y nullnamed directory (even if JHM will now protest). 2. If being in the filer, one can easily edit a directory. This will The filer should not be entitled to try at once to restore. 3. The TREE environment should never show any nullnamed dir at the very end, even if some people like creating nullnames denoting directories. 4. (for JYA only). The not reprogrammable RightArrow function in the forthcoming ROM has definitely a bug as follows: It does not set the Bad Argument Type. 5. (not a bug). IMHO, the RESTORE command is too slow on a backup of about 100 KB, with about 138 KB free RAM. - Wolfgang ==== > Where on the web can I find the plug-in ROM and RAM cartridges for my 48GX? > Craig https://www.calcpro.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi 128K Ram Card (for SX & GX) http://www.helpfindit.com/cgi-win/dream55.exe/~i008000250843 Tripod Data Systems (They are one of few that make RAM cards) http://www.instrumentsales1.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/online-store/scstore/ data05.htm?E+scstore ==== Does anyone has a faster alternative to 'DISP' command for HP48? Tal ==== There exist some alternatives on www.hpcalc.org from various people (including me. It depends on the type of objects and the manner in which they should be displayed to say which alternative suits you best. Raymond ==== Look & feel is great. Very usable. But version 0.8 was approximately 0.8 but I didn't test it. ==== Yes? but even the emulators are buggy, have known issues... thanks, franks (waiting for my TI voyage 200 to arrive) ==== I'm not trying to provoke you, but I'm still not quite sure what your point is?...the HP emulators are buggy? OK, well there's a lot of buggy software out there and I believe the TI emulators are buggy and have issues as well. You prefer the Voyage over HP's?...again, OK, fine, no one is trying to force you to use an HP--use whatever suits you best and let the marketplace decide. I have a TI 92+ and it works just fine--but I have problems keeping up with all the parentheses required for algebraic entry; I've been using RPN since the HP35 came out (and, no my kids [3 of them: 18, 20, and 22 and the 20 yr old is a girl] don't have TI83 Silver Editions--they prefer RPN as well.) It seems to me that a lot of the HP v. TI stuff arises from exactly the same situation with Windows v. Mac--HP and Windows people don't mind opening up the hood and taking a look and tinkering with the hardware and software themselves whereas the TI and Mac folks are more interested in just getting the right answer (i.e. looks like the answer in the back of the book.) Or more to the point--most HP folks could claculate those derivatives and integrals and differential equations by hand (and get them right!)--the CAS just makes it faster. I think a lot of TI folks might be hard-pressed if their TI89 died in the middle of an exam and they really had to integrate something themselves....By the way, how do you think that those bugs in the HP CAS have been found? By folks who really can calculate the correct result and compare it to what the CAS says. In contrast, I think many TI users would have not the slightest idea whether or not their calc. is giving them a correct answer or not. Roger ==== I have an HP 28s and i sold it. ==== I just got a brand new HP40G from ebay for EU 59,-. Surprisingly, I found that there is even a clock implemented. Using the very nice library L1540 by Martin Lang I can use time & date arithmetic and even a graphical calendar now! Does anybody know if it is possible to show time&date permanently (like setting flag -40 on the hp48/49)? Axel ==== how do you start a new newsgoup pls? ==== Can anyone tell me how to put two functions from Keyman, that nifty program, i.e. double click & long press on the same key at the same time? much appreciate the help. Stan ==== I thank you for the answer and your very beautiful program. It is in fact a great further development to the HP-IDE, with many enlargements of the program development. I will be occupied intensely with the many possibilities at nearest time. Klaus ==== I'm an owner of 28s, 48sx and 48gx calculators and I just bought an HP49G calc. While I find the OS and software of the 49g improve a lot on the sloooow interface of the 48g, I really don't understand the philosophy behind the 49g. The first thing I notice is that the 49g is a gigantic step backward in terms of quality of production and hardware design compared to previous calculators : I - Material --------------------- - the plastic feels VERY CHEAP. On the 48 you wonder how you could open the case. On the 49 you wonder how it doesn't fall apart. - I find the screen less readable because of the reflection on the plastic cover which I guess is supposed to protect it. the idea of the protection is a good one, but please put something neutral on the screen. I have the feeling that I'm looking at the screen of the calculator through a dirty window. - the keys are stiff and crunching data is a nightmare (it used to be a pleasure ! yes . the keyboard slows you down and you don't have any more the warm tactile touch which made the 48 sooooo sexxy ! - the labels next to the keys are not readable because of the reflection on the shiny-blue color of the calculator, because they are smaller in size, and because of the sans serif font (arial type is used instead of more readable times types) In short, making a shining look was not a bright idea. II - The design ----------------------- The keyboard is designed with Algebraic in mind ! Working in RPN is very difficult : - the enter key is in the lower right corner and not any more above the alpha key. the previous setup was easier for example for crunching data because you could type the numbers with the right hand and press on the enter key with the thumb. Now you need to operate a movement of you right hand over the enter key and back again on the number keys which slows you down. Of course left-handed people might find the new setup better. - the ' apostrophe key which is useful when you want to enter the name of a value without evaluating it is no t any more directly accessible. You have to press left shift - same for the Eval key (left shift) - ... and for the Del key (right shift) -... where is the old CST button (access to custom menus) ? Instead of that you have a direct access to a catalog of 808 commands (CAT touch). How often will i use that touch ? It should have been behind a shift ! - ... what happened to the purge key? These keys are used 100 times per hour by all serious hp users. Putting them behind shifts, or taking them out altogether, specially on a keyboard that is so stiff was a very bad idea. III - The good part : the software ---------------------------------------- Now, I must say that the software is so much better. Fast. Functional. But I do understand that most of the new software in the HP49 comes from Metakernel and Erable, software that wasn't developed by HP. IV - Terrible strategy -------------------------- So I wonder what's the added value of HP in the process of making the HP49... The good things were brought by the HP48 user community (Avenard, de brebisson, etc. who were hired to incorporate their software in the calculator and then sacked... I guess the 49 software now belongs to HP even though most of it was developed by these guys before they were hired by HP... so the user community will not be able to improve on it). HP's contribution, it seems, was to push for a low cost production and for an algebraic design which was supposed to appeal to high school students. But why would TI high school students switch massively to HP ? they have always worked with TI calculators and the vast majority of them will continue to do it because of the learning curve associated to switching to another brand calculator (I don't think the RPN thing is that important - I started by putting ' in front of every line and progressively got used to RPN - I'm talking of the learning curve associated to entering formulas, understanding the menu system, creating programs, etc.). I would say that the solution for HP is to compete with TI on the lower range of their calculators, not on the upper range. They will win that war if more people buy an HP calculator as their first calculator. Meanwhile, I'm left with my sexy 48gx and my ugly 49g. Anybody selling a 2 mb Ram card ? Bye John ==== With a 128kb and a 1Mb RAM cards (&% euros) you'll get almost a 49 if install Mk, Erable and Alg48. Try here: http://uuhome.de/oklotz/index_e.html Happy new year ==== I mean 65 euros. Sorry. ==== You don't need to do anything in the US to own a published work... however ... If you do not claim copyright on EACH copy/work you produce then it book and placed a copyright notice on it ... I would own the rights. If I didn't do that (but the copyright notice - and distributed it) I would still own the rights, but might have a hard time keeping someone else from publishing the work for money. The other person could NOT claim it as there own or copyright it themselves, but could make money on it, change it, do whatever...with little I could do about it. On the other hand, being the author, I could explicitly place it in the public domain. If I did that nobody could claim, and make money on the content. HOWEVER anyone can make any amount of money on the publishing and distribution. If someone is auctioning off free/public domain software they could legitimately state they are doing this as a way to DISTRIBUTE the software, they are only auctioning distribution, and not software it's self. E-Bays's Policy lets the COPYRIGHT OWNER sell CD-Rs of there own works. This is a GOOD policy it PROTECTS the media developer. It's a good compromise. I can still sell my own works on CD-R, but YOU can't sell MY software on CD-R. If I was to create software, and place it on E-BAY, and it stinks then you could not try to resell my stinky software again. What you could do it write a bad review of me and tell everyone about my stinky software, or deal with me and we could work something out (perhaps fix the bug?). The end result is: Major 'real CD' software can be resold, if it's the real deal. while I sell you the original, but does keep me from making 100's of copies and reselling them as legit. As a software developer I can create and distribute small niche software at a reasonable cost, but the buyer can't resell it. What should happen is that the software goes for lower cost, so it's not so good perhaps, or perhaps it's great, the buyer takes some of the risk. ==== Can you please point us at what portions of US law back up this claim? -- Andrew Koenig, ark@research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark ==== What don't you understand? As an author and publisher you need to let others know it's yours and that you want to retain rights. That is why on every CD I create or software I publish, even if it's for class, I place a (C) notice with the year and my name. If I didn't do that then anyone who picks up a copy could suppose I did not care about retaining rights and could publish it in the public domain. If I was going to actualy SELL somthing I would go through the offical copyright process, sending a copy of the work, form, and registration fee to the CR office. The offical process is only there to ESTABLISH LEGAL ownership. If you don''t go though the official process you STILL own the copyright, but establishment may become harder to prove for a comersialy secsfull item. The offical process only helps in establisment of ownership, it does not give you additiional rights, only helps in establishment of proof. This information is from synopsis of courses I took in ASU, NC dealing with music and softwrae copyright law. I don't have the exact law to site. I'm not a law type ==== Realy, realy helpful! It is so annoying that all these capabilities of 49G are unknown just because of the manuals! Alex Markatis ==== Now one thing that I find funny is this: I put in the restrictions 0 <= x <= 2pi and then 'COS(2X)+1' SOLVEX and it gives me: {X=3pi/2 X=pi/2 X=pi/2 X=3pi/2} Is the HP49 not smart enough to eliminate equal solutions? -- Al ==== Yeah, I noticed the same thing, but at the time I was so happy that the hp49 gave me any correct answers that I really didn't care about the repeated answers. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can explain this phenomenon. (Monsieur Bernard, s'il vous pla.94t. :-) ) ==== If i have a decimal number how do I convert it to a fraction? ==== See the Eric Rechlin Web page (http://ca-on.hpcalc.org). Maybe what exist any program. Note: I'm create two programs in Lib format for Beam Pumping Unit, but perform calculation for production in Oil Industry (not in structural). Please, type ... caporalini in the window search from Eric page. If you needed any program, please send me the formulas, the units and flow diagram and i'm create this program. Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK **************************************************************************** *** ==== Hewlett-Packard Canada is at 905-206-9600. Sorry I don't have the 1-800 number. They are a short drive for me here in Port Credit as they are just south of the airport. They have been quite good for service etc. Geoff -- ==== Whoops! The number I just gave has been changed... Sorry. Geoff -- ==== Bill, your program is OK, but you can also recall some directory on the stack and use the command BYTES. If for example you have some directory named 'MYDIR' and it contains variables VAR1 and VAR2, then put 'MYDIR' on the stack, press [RCL] and then you will see: DIR END Then BYTES will let you know how big the directory is. Directories are object type 15, by the way. Have a nice.. new year! ==== Yeah, yeah, yeah... Someone told the business majors that profit should be maximized. But they didn't told them that ignoring maximazation constraints can leed to bulls**t, especially considering music. P.S: Where are the bands that have something to say? ==== Unfortunately no real indices, but you can fake them as a(1) etc. For example if a contains {1 2 3 4} then a(1) RCL will return 1. ==== I'm using WinHP to write a data table with some civil engineering characteristics (embending moments,bemas deformations...), and then use TGV Viewer in order to read it in my HP49. I use TGV because it allows me to diplay text and graphics at the same time. The problem is that I dont like the default display font of TGV Viewer, and I'd like to know, if i could change it. I'd like to display it in the text mode of HP49,which is too much easier to read, and allows more lines per screen. I want to know how i can change this font, and I suposse i must install it also in WinHP... can somebody help me? And this font must be able to stand with graphics at the same time. So I suppose I need two fonts, one for my computer and one for my calculator, is that right? ==== Actually the problem was that the loop is not FOR...NEXT but FOR...END ie. FOR I=1 TO 5 STEP 1; statement: statement: ... END: The STEP 1 is optional so the first line can read FOR I=1 TO 5; The reason that the second CHOOSE menu was appearing 5 times was that it but that was implied automatically by the end of the program. What interests me is that there's no syntax error for the NEXT: statement considering that there's no such command in the language nor in the CAS commands of the 40G. The only close command is NEXTPRIME(number). It's evidently a reserved word anyway. PS. You said that you were using REPEAT....UNTIL instead but you may run into trouble if you don't realise that you also need an END in that too. The syntax is: REPEAT statement: statement: ... UNTIL termination condition END: If you don't have the END then it may be unclear where the termination condition stops. Almost certainly you'd get a syntax error in the next statement after it. Can I suggest RTM? ==== Duh! Of course. Not getting an error, one assumes that things are The end of a program acting as an implicit end loop is a most unexpected feature. All other dialects of BASIC that I've ever used always terminate the program when you drop off the end. I'd hazard a guess at it converting this into an expression N*E*X*T and then throwing away the result. Yes, I'd got this bit all right. Well I had. UTM (Understanding The Manual) is clearly a different matter :-) As well as the NEXT statement not giving an error there is still the strange behaviour of the CHOOSE box losing its highlight bar and CANCEL menu item. -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== As Bruce suggests in his reply, NEXT does not cause any syntax error because of implicit multiplication. You can prove it by entering NEXT on the HOME environment, or by running this small program DISP 1;NEXT:FREEZE: You need to see to believe? Then, let's name that program, say, ABC and press: SHIFT-1 select ABC [RUN] ON HOME SYSEVAL 260243 ENTER [CHOOSE] select 'pgmdir, [VIEW] The bint in ;ABC is the current position of the cursor in the program editor (SHIFT-1 [EDIT]). 'ABC has the text of the program as entered by the user. And :ABC contains the compiled program. With the arrow keys, you will see N E * X * T *, that is, the RPL equivalent to N*E*X*T. QED. To quit the filer press ON three times. The garbage returned is the way the history stack displays the system word FALSE. Select it and press DEL. HELPWITH FOR should suffice. The real variable used by CHOOSE, contains a number that is taken as the item to be initially highlighted. If it's zero, the choose box becomes a message box. loop), and the B in the CHOOSE command refers to the global variable B, zero by default. If you store 1 into B before running your program, you shouldn't see a message box anymore. HPCC #1046 ==== No news from here. The 6S was also somewhat hard to get at the beginning. Oh well, you know: single machine users, just one step higher than managers, according to Richard Nelson's rating I did use my 30S (a present from the hp^c magazine) to try out the bugs that Joe Horn found :) Marketing Kits!! HPCC #1046 ==== Truss49 is on the air again, thanks to Angelo (and myself ;) Updated version available on my website. Caspar originally with package. ==== 60 secs!! OMG!!!!!! you're kidding right? If I fumble with my batteries as I replace them I can lose all, is that what you're telling me??? ==== On the 38G there is a 'coma mode' which is entered by pressing ON+COMMA in which the internal processor is shut down more completely so that the condenser will last longer. Perhaps there is a similar mode for the 48 that gives you longer than 60 seconds? Anyone care to comment? Also, anyone know what the equivalent keypress is for the 39/40G? ==== The 48G Series User's Guide says: After the batteries are out, you should replace them with fresh batteries within 2 minutes to protect against memory loss. BTW, this is with the calculator turned off. Be careful not to press the [ON] key. See appendix A in the UG. It's best to have an empty stack when you replace the batteries; a goof may very well cause a warmstart. I suspect that the calculator will actually retain memory much longer, but I've never actually tested how long, except perhaps unintentionally when trying to stop a 48SX calculator from viewing the 'USAG' program in the editor; it seems to me that it was still trying to decompile that program after several hours without batteries. I suppose that it may well vary between models, and even among calculators of the same model. It seems reasonable to expect that the lower the old batteries are, the less time you have to replace them. For the 48 series, [ON]&[SPC] (together) puts the calculator into coma mode. This is a very low power mode that also stops the system clock and clears the warmstart log. To get out of coma mode, just press the [ON] key (and set the clock to the correct time if it matters to you). Note that a very low battery condition at the battery contacts is supposed to put the calculator into a deep sleep mode with the system clock running. Turning the calculator back on (after the power is restored) results in a warmstart and puts a code 1 in the warmstart log. See WSLOG in the AUG. -- ==== There are sveral minutes (perhaps a few hours), but it depends also on the unit. I have never lost my port 0 data changing batteries and you will be able of doing it. Important: do it calmly and don't invert the polarity... ==== P.S. After using a 28 series, the 48 series battery replacement procedure is a breeze. The 28 series manuals say one minute instead of two minutes, and it's a bit tricky pushing the batteries down while sliding the cover into place over their ends. To make it worse, a backup of a 28 is a collection of printouts that you can use to key everything back in from. I know that I've muttered a few unprintable words about whoever designed that system. ==== calmly and don't invert the batteries.......... got it! =)) ahh.....21st century technology, how would we survive without it....... ==== How do I backup and restore to large Ram Cards? Do you have to backup every port? ==== I searched the newsgroup and found that I could use a Kermit script and a take file to restore the libraries. Does anyone know how to write a take file to do this? every ==== Do they still sell Derive 4.11 for DOS? I only could find version 5 on the TI website, maybe ebay has some used versions... 48 or ==== You have to find a local dealer for this product, maybe he still has some old boxes waiting to be sold. That's what I did, in France. My local dealer had to contact another one in England who effectively had some 4.11 boxes, and we found an arrangement. The software *and* the printed manual is worth the effort. [...] -- ----- .82 Excusez-moi, je n'ai pas pu m'en emp.90cher... é -+- CF in GNU - fufe, c'est plus fort que toi -+- ==== I found the dealers abroad* (believe its Germany). I don't know any local dealers. I've also heard that they still sell it only to 200LX users... and as a new 200LX user I should get it, cause that's the best math tool for the device. Anyway, I'm afraid it's too expensive for me now, although I also thought that being so old, it could be freeware by now. It doesn't make sense to me to pay twice the value of a 10 year old used device (200LX 2 Mb), I paid yesterday for a nearly old math application. I should look for another options instead. Is it MatLab for DOS still selling also ? -- Carlos Lacroze Hallo Carlos, a Derive for DOS License costs Euro 50,- + shipping. We accept VISA and Mastercard. As soon as I know your address and creditcard number I can ship the program. Andrea Kutzler You can get Derive for DOS 4.11 from bk teachware either delivered info@bk-teachware.com. johann gutenbrunner Derive Support Team Mit freundlichen Gruessen Andrea Kutzler bk teachware GmbH&CoKG Hauptstr. 99 A-4232 Hagenberg Besuchen Sie den bkt Online-Shop: http://shop.bk-teachware.com. info@bk-teachware.com ==== PART 1 of 2: SIMPLIFY IN APPROX MODE The HP49G's COLCT command (as well as COLLECT, SIMPLIFY, and FACTOR) in Approximate Mode and RPN mode screws up 0.^0. To see it happen, do this: Make sure that Approximate Mode and RPN mode are set. Then type: Viewing the result in System RPL mode reveals SYMBOL %%1 ; which is sort of the right answer but with a long real instead of a plain real, and embedded in an algebraic instead of by itself. PART 2 of 2: LONG REALS IN ALGEBRAICS Oddly, however, pressing EVAL on the Invalid Expressions obtained above returns the correct answer of 1! So algebraics seems to be able to handle long reals, at least for arithmetic operators and powers. Example: 256.04 TMENU Even though the User RPL + command cannot handle long reals, it seems to magically be able to do so when embedded in an algebraic object. Anybody know what's up with that? Can this fact be put to any clever use? -Joe- ==== I want to buy a RAM card (2 MB) for the Hp48GX. I think the best site is Klozt Electronic: http://www.uuhome.de/oklotz/ (non HP-approved). Do you know another site for shopping? ==== ==== I must agree that this is the best one I know of. **************************************************************************** *** ==== http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi -- Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== My local Fry's Electronics (Los Angeles, California) had a bunch of HP-49Gs last week. They've had the same stock for months and I never see much change. They were still listed at $189.99 This morning they are all gone and the empty peg with the $189.99 price still there. Too many people Christmas shopping to ask what happened. I will check after Christmas but looks like they took them off the shelf. I wonder if they can return discontinued stock? -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -