B16 ==== > What is RE()? Real part. ==== > Yes, it does, but as the calculation time is so long, the time to > display the beast should be of minor importance. Or am I wrong here? If you have a look at what TEVAL decompiles to, no it doesn't. The > display code is buried somewhere in the System Outer Loop (SOL), but > TEVAL has to finish before control returns to the SOL. However it indeed seems to be of minor importance. I put a ZINT of > about 35000 1's on the stack (agreed, that's only *close* to the test > case, but far easier to construct...) and then ran :: > ' :: ClrDAsOK ?DispStack ; > xTEVAL > ; and got 0.4309 seconds. > , . ==== >> I was wondering how mine could have taken 30 something hours when the >> real 49g >> did within 24 hours. > Even 24 hours are too much compared to the 3 hours that ivan reported. > Is the HP40 so much faster? By within 24 hours I meant that it did it any time from 0 hours to 24 > hours. I am > still unsure of exactly how long it took. I would assume it would be equal > to or less > than your result. OK, now I got it. > I do not want to waste batteries like this, though, I > got an exam > today :) Experimenting can be dangerous, one way or another;-) , . ==== > The speed is ok: On my 40G it took 10320.7 seconds (2h 52min) to get > the result. Believe it or not, it took 12275.4935 to get the result on the HP 49G. > That's quite a big difference, 3.40 hours compared to 2h 52min. What? Why is that? Has the HP49G to do additional things while calculating 9999! ? > Does anyone else venture to try it on a 49G? Oh man, perhaps during weekend, but I just can't wait 3.4 hours until it can be used again. I can't promise to try it, but I promise to try to try it. , . ==== I was in Algebraic Mode [NPV] >>> [OT] [EB] [RO] [TON] [OT] [EB] >> What was that? Your proposed keyboard layout for >> the single row of rubber keys which should remain >> labeled? ;-) ??? OT = Off Topic The thread had become a discussion about the reality of reality in an > apparent reversal of Hamlet's famous question, To be or not to be? which > assumes a contrariety between existing and not existing. -Joe- ==== > perhaps space and time are quantized too. We thought that the world > were continuous because we had *perceived* it continuous for ages. > Yes, the modern physics seems to say that everything is quantisized > so we live in a world of massive hoard of integer quatums. > ****************************************************** > The real numbers exist only in mathematics! > ****************************************************** Don't forget that the quantum itself looks more like real number. Look at h*f for example. > I left a lot at the bottom just to say that I am more on s side here > only to emphasize on the fact that I think of JKH to think totally > in math way where there is a point pi *exactly* and as an abstract > thing in our minds it is real, but since everything seems to be quantums > in the physical world there are no absolutely perfect circles and > the irrational numbers seem to be well - irrational... Not necessarily so. What you say will be the case only if pi isn't some integer multiple of a space quantum. Also don't forget that one can exactly and very strictly do geometric construction of, say, sqrt(2), so irrational doesn't have to be irrational. > something to keep the vacuum of space from boiling you, of course. Why, the space vacuum is boiling! Didn't you know that?! You mean fluctuations because of Heisenberg? > The Complex Karagiaouroglou. > (With such a family name I have to be complex ;-)) > and thanks a lot for this posting. > I'm glad that my calculator can use Complex Numbers. > It may even help me to calculate the value of > BUT to be precise I rather use the greek letter gamma > to represent in an absolute infinite precision amount. He, he, I hope you (don't) know what gamma means apart from the letter ;-) OK, I am gamma (radiation), are there other letters here? , . ==== >>> [OT] [EB] [RO] [TON] [OT] [EB] >> What was that? Your proposed keyboard layout for >> the single row of rubber keys which should remain >> labeled? ;-) ??? OT = Off Topic The thread had become a discussion about the reality of reality in an > apparent reversal of Hamlet's famous question, To be or not to be? which > assumes a contrariety between existing and not existing. -Joe- Lucky gentle Bill! If he knew, we wouldn't have that work. Sometimes it is better to not know... , . ==== The build-in ALG49 has almost evreyting that the ALG48 has but it's naming convention is totally different due to heavy integration (pun not intended) to the new OS. Long Integers are there, symbolic matrices are there and all the module commands plus rational expression simplifications, expansions and other manipulation tools. > Does anyone knows if there are similar commands? > tnx to anyone ==== Hans Joachim Klotz ha scritto nel >Something about units> My apologies... I assumed you use HP49 in soft-menu mode, flag 117 set. Anyway I see you already fixed that.... ==== >8; >arrow right; >minus; >alpha; >arrow left; >m; >Enter; >1; >arrow right; >minus; >alpha; >arrow left; >m; >alpha; >arrow left; >m; >Enter; >arrow right; >units; >OK; >OK; RESULT 8000 mm. Is that true? Or make I mistakes? > Yes, 8m is 8000mm. You did not make a mistake. Seriously, Nobody mentioned that you should set flag 117, soft menu to restore HP48 softmenu key functionality. It should be intuitive from there. Hope this helps, Bill Bill alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) ==== > X > Luck is with the daring. Anyway, luck or not luck, for me it is > secret priviledges for the insiders, while it seems to be possible for > any normal user to use them safely. Is there any clear distiction Somehow reminds me of governments, which declare so many things > X > Nope! > Just as with the HP 41 series Synthetic Programming > you are doing HP 4x series Synthetic Programming > you do things that are not planned ahead, but will sometimes work. You are right. It is only that my limited understanding implied that such synthetics should be much more difficult to access for the normal user, in the sense that additional libraries should be necessary etc.. I start thinking that pressumably there is no really sharp boundary between easily accessible and thus OK to use and not easily accessible and thus dangerous, especially on the 49, which includes anything necessary for synthetics creation. But nonetheless, somehow I tend to include the lib 256 in the rest of the normal user commands, since neither its accessibility, nor its functionality is really very special. I mean, even for a normal UserRPL user, like me, it requires no additional knowledge to understand that, for example COMP-> explodes a composite. Once I understand what OBJ-> does, I just have to generalize its functionality, and I can also understand what COMP-> does, without having to go learn SystemRPL first. > Nobody is keeping any secrects but your voyage is to boldly go > to the unknown parts of the v'ger ROM-space-continuum. It just makes me wonder, how easy it is to access that continuum. No jumping to hyper space is necessary. With the 48GX, the same voyage was much more difficult (for me). That is perhaps why I have the impression that any menu in the HP49G is a menu for all of us, while all wonders/dangers are kept in secret places that only the gurus can reach. > Will you come back with a Synthetic Objects Marathon? Well, perhaps I really should do that. Until now I thought of such objects only in terms of usability and help for the primary purpose of the 49G, that is how can I use such objects to solve problems. But thinking again about them, I find your proposal very attractive, be it only for the fun of it. > PS: Don't blame the crew, they have nothing to do with your discoveries. > AND: yes - it is dangerous - becuase nobody knows what happens next. Not the crew around captain Jean Yves. This crew was (still is?) a real enrichment, because they exploded all limits, which we thought solid as rocks. Alone this small mind revolution is enough for a nobel in calcuratorics. But this wasn't the only crew that participated. (You know, Carlina baby and so on....) > PPS: Have you ever tryed to hack a 2D matrix into a 3D? It's fun... > (do back up your things to Flash 1st) I do 3D matrices (and any-D matrices, using AXL and lists of lists of lists...). Do you mean that, or something else? , thanks again for the idea of synthetics marathon. . ==== > X > What's annoying or misleading about the marathons? That's he's doing > all this work for a dead calculator? The HP 4x line is not dead ! > Why do you come here to spread lies? > I don't write to TI group and say TI 92 is dead because of V200... But alive it also isn't. (No further development - for the time being.) Perhaps it is only asleep... , . ==== X > PPS: Have you ever tryed to hack a 2D matrix into a 3D? It's fun... > (do back up your things to Flash 1st) I do 3D matrices (and any-D matrices, using AXL and lists of lists of > lists...). Do you mean that, or something else? Just that! AND it works! But not always... > , thanks again for the idea of synthetics marathon. > . You're welcome! ==== My comment to the New 49G for sale read. The TI DeathStar - back it strikes! adoY PS: with you the RPN may_be > X > What's annoying or misleading about the marathons? That's he's doing > all this work for a dead calculator? The HP 4x line is not dead ! > Why do you come here to spread lies? > I don't write to TI group and say TI 92 is dead because of V200... But alive it also isn't. (No further development - for the time being.) > Perhaps it is only asleep... , > . ==== > My comment to the New 49G for sale read. > The TI DeathStar - back it strikes! > adoY > PS: with you the RPN may_be Sorry I mean this thread: ==== Does anybody know of good books on the 49G? MC ==== > Either this is a nasty hoax or you just shot down your chance to do beta X Therefore there is no new calculator in progress BUT I will start the rumours now: HP will make a new RPN/Algebraic 50GX+ calculator with a 40MHz enhancent Saturn in low 1.8V It will work on a single AA cell and has no scrren cover but only a recessed screen. The keys resemble the 10BII keys and have a positive tactile feel and they are plastic, with silk screened labels on them. The psysical layout is similar to the 49G (or 39/40) and there will be a sister model 41G, which is an enhanced 40G Also the HP 48GX is renewed and all the models have now 2MB Flash memory but the 50G naturally has 4MB Flash. With the greater speed HP runs rings around the current TI HP comes will a special edition of the Urroz books TI-RUMOURS !!! TI will counter-strike the rebellians with a Death-Star approach: http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MCF5407&node Id=018rH3YTLC00M9 CPU has 220MHz and can fly rings around all the new HP Super-Saturn. There will be two models V-1 and H-1, the vertical and the horisontal model. H-1 has bigger screen and the soon to be released H-2 has color screen!! To save the costs TI incudes the manuals only in a CD, but offers a one A5 size sheet quick-start which helps the user to switch the calc on. The build in system is Waterloo Maple 8 Student version. Note: The needed AC/DC universal converter is sold separately. The Lion batteries last for several hours... ;-P ==== > swallow a TI92, hard to digest...if you catch my drift! Alimentary, my dear Watson! -Joe- ==== > The build in system is Waterloo Maple 8 Student version. What a terrible decision! That would be pretty stupid of TI. No, I'm not advocating putting Mathematica on such a device either... those are PC CAS's and are not designed for low-power, low-memory devices. -- ==== > The build in system is Waterloo Maple 8 Student version. What a terrible decision! That would be pretty stupid of TI. No, I'm > not advocating putting Mathematica on such a device either... those > are PC CAS's and are not designed for low-power, low-memory devices. But Maple *was* already put in Cassiopeia and it is a low power, low memory, low everything device. Despite the fact that I still don't know where to get it, I would definitely buy it if I knew. , . ==== > if anyone is interested). It talks about a new HP scientific calc. I > think its just junk but why would someone take the trouble? Here is > Not only you blew up all your chances of working with HP ever again if there > was any beta testing on its way, but I would also say that you're A moron. I > would say it twice actually. behavior (even if legally you can do it) is why in today's life lawyers have > to take into account every single details of day to day living and people > like you prevent things to get better HP has in the past contacted people to test their product. I did so when I > people are like you and usually this practice can work. You just need one > asshole to blew up the whole thing and stop companies in involving people > for future development project. You idiot > PS: you idiot. you Bush! (ok this may be a bit too hard :) That was surely no good thing to do, any you are right saying that, but still... sometimes the joy is so great that we simply want to share that with other people. I am sure that the Cid didn't have any bad intentions, it was more that he (she?) thought that we could be happy to know that, what Cid? , . ==== > You must be a TIborg or already employed by TI! > Nobody wants you here destroying the hopes of this > newsgroup for a better calc in the future! Go and > swallow a TI92, hard to digest...if you catch my drift! !Demeter! Destroying the hopes? Why? Come on now, Demeter. Does anybody believe that HP would abandon plans for a new calc, if somebody from the outside sings too early? We are way not so important, if we speak or not. Besides, what kind of company is that, that allows some people from the outside to participate in secrets, and seriously expects them to keep silent? Even CIA has lost that exopragmatic dream. We are humans, we talk, we talk too much, that's all. *And*, what kind of fashion is that, to decide that some persons outside HP, should know, while other shouldn't? Who decides this? The great HP random name generator? I think the only not so good thing that the drunken master did, was that CdB has expilitly asked him not to tell anything anybody, so it was more misusing trust, and that with no bad intention at all? Haven't you ever be so happy, that you would like the whole world to know? I think that was a bit too hard for Cid, he wanted to just propagate his joy. , . ==== >You must be a TIborg or already employed by TI! >>Nobody wants you here destroying the hopes of this >>newsgroup for a better calc in the future! Go and >>swallow a TI92, hard to digest...if you catch my drift! >>!Demeter! Destroying the hopes? Why? Come on now, Demeter. Does anybody > believe that HP would abandon plans for a new calc, if somebody from > the outside sings too early? We are way not so important, if we > speak or not. Besides, what kind of company is that, that allows some people from > the outside to participate in secrets, and seriously expects them to > keep silent? Even CIA has lost that exopragmatic dream. We are humans, > we talk, we talk too much, that's all. *And*, what kind of fashion is that, to decide that some persons > outside HP, should know, while other shouldn't? Who decides this? The > great HP random name generator? I think the only not so good thing that the drunken master did, was > that CdB has expilitly asked him not to tell anything anybody, so it > was more misusing trust, and that with no bad intention at all? > Haven't you ever be so happy, that you would like the whole world to > know? > I think that was a bit too hard for Cid, he wanted to just propagate > his joy. , > . Hell is full of people with good intentions. I know this may be a little harsh but when you consider that all we have as individuals is our honor and trust, those virtues can't be compromised. ==== The try the s amazing Complex Number Marathon http://ca-on.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=5114 > i own a HP49G ==== >Just want to clear up my newbie doubts: 1) Whats up with the hidden >directory thing?? HOw can i access it?? > Download the hide utility from > http://www.hpcalc.org/search.php?query=hide. It's very recommandable > IMO, because many libs make annoying variables that I practically don't use. > 2)while graphing a function, how can i see numbers showing the length > of the coordinate system? what i mean is, a want to view a scale on >the graph. 3) advatages of using libeval? 4) examples of good libeval > Somebody else has to answer that. I just press (x,y) or trace if I want > to know the coordinate somewhere. > use. 5) none linear systems with over 1 answer, any way to get all >the answers?? (havent found a way to do that, not even using >solvesys) 6) Units in equation, how do i put them in, get the answer >in apropiate units? > 5) Not sure. > 6) Not sure, but if you put them in and calculate something, then the > units still are right, automatically, aren't they? If I add 8 mm to 1 m, > then I get 1008 mm, which is correct, right? You're welcome. Martin J thanks, real usefull tips. was also wondering what other programs/funtions would be nice for high school physics (cinematics-dinamics etc.) and chemistry(reactions, chem equations etc) thanks again [[A][C]] ==== > Just want to clear up my newbie doubts: > 1) Whats up with the hidden directory thing?? HOw can i access it?? > 2)while graphing a function, how can i see numbers showing the length > of the coordinate system? what i mean is, a want to view a scale on > the graph. > 3) advatages of using libeval? > 4) examples of good libeval use. > 5) none linear systems with over 1 answer, any way to get all the > answers?? (havent found a way to do that, not even using solvesys) > 6) Units in equation, how do i put them in, get the answer in > apropiate units? > [AC] For non limear systems you have: 1) GBASE and GREDUCE (but only for polynomial equations.) 2) MSLV which does numeric solving, so only one solution is returned each time you use it. 3) The built-in multi-equation solver, which is also numeric. And of course manually solving some equation, substituting solutions to the next, and so on. , . ==== > 1) What is a density curve? Take a look at http://people.hofstra.edu/faculty/Stefan_Waner/cprob/cprob2.html . I think that what J. Yuan wants is partially covered by all UTXX commands, like UTPC and so on. But they wouldn't draw the curve automatically out of a data matrix. One has to program. > 2) << -> n << n RAND * IP 1. + n >> DROP >> 'nRAND' STO > { } 1. 150. START 10. nRAND + NEXT RANM could also be useful, though not very much so. > I'm taking a beginning Statistics course that is equivalent to a college > survey class. Of course, everything is geared towards the Ti-83. I > downloaded a couple of Stats programs (including Stats Pro 49), but I find > these apply mostly to inferential statistics, and I'm doing descriptive > statistics right now. 1). Does anyone know if the 49G will be able to sketch a density curve > from > a set of data or from a histogram? > 2). I know this is possible. But what command lets the calculator > generate > a series of random numbers (say 150 random numbers between 1 and 10)? > ==== > I recently purchased a used 48GX that's in 'like new' condition and the guy > I bought it from said he bought it a only a year ago. However I was looking > at a website that sold these calculators and noticed that it said they > carried the newer black on grey display My screen appears to be a dark > blue on green color so I'm wondering if my calc is actually a lot older than > what the guy told me. Could someone please clarify how new these 'newer' > models actually are and is there an improvement of visibility that comes > with them as well? X There might still be some older 48Gs on some stores so it's quite possible that your 48G is 'like new'. There are three different models (at least) what comes to hardware (besides the ROM software versions, which should be R rather than P) 1) first with injection molded keys that will not were out 2) the old ones, only silk screened keys, same LCD (better than 48S's) 3) the new ones with almost black LCD, better contrast ==== Bill Markwick escriben: > I seem to have invented a different breed of mini-challenge > - you start with the program and have to figure out what it > does (mind you, a lot of the shareware on hpcalc is like that). GREAT idea! A sort of Convoluted RPL Contest. I love it! Spaghetti code in a structured language! Yowza! -Joe- ==== > Yes, indeed, especially the history of different temperament > systems and how we ended up with equal-tempered. > I once tried to get Joe interested in it, and I could hear the > yawns all the way from California. :-) Bach, umbug! I was well tempered about it the whole time! -Joe- Clavier.9fbung means Keyboard .9fbung -- Peter Schikele <435f61d8.0301302013.2f87b633@posting.google.com> ==== > Yes, indeed, especially the history of different temperament >> systems and how we ended up with equal-tempered. >> I once tried to get Joe interested in it, and I could hear the >> yawns all the way from California. :-) Bach, umbug! I was well tempered about it the whole time! Joe gave up music when they threatened to test his canticles. :-) -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk <435f61d8.0301302009.416b2173@posting.google.com> ==== >Bill Markwick escriben: > I seem to have invented a different breed of mini-challenge >> - you start with the program and have to figure out what it >> does (mind you, a lot of the shareware on hpcalc is like that). GREAT idea! A sort of Convoluted RPL Contest. I love it! Spaghetti code >in a structured language! Yowza! You mean something a bit like The International Obfuscated C Code Contest but for RPL? This one's my favourite http://www.de.ioccc.org/1988/phillipps.c -- Nice thing that ZEROS. It will give a llist of { answers } only > While SOLVE (or SOLVEVX) > gives the { variable=answer} type list of solutions. > I prefer using alpha for trigs, (alpha is the 's greek a) > so the ASSUME is always on (no need to 'X' UNASSUME) > 'alpha>=2*pi' ASSUME > 'alpha<=0' ASSUME That's an intuitive idea. How long does the assumption stay on? > If it gets erased during a warm boot, then I should put it in the > STARTUP var... but I have no knowledge of how to exactly use that > variable yet. I guess I just put in the program << 'alpha=3' ASSUME > for example, and then store it to STARTUP. Assumptions survive in general until 1) a Warmstart or For (1) it is OK to include code for making assumptions in STARTUP. For (2), it might be better to always start with a clean house, doing 'variableName' UNASSUME first, and then all assumptions. (??) , . ==== X > It's in there too. Perhaps you have an old list? The date at the top of X > Meanwhile, here's my latest versions of everything: http://holyjoe.net/cure/hp49gcat.txt > http://holyjoe.net/cure/menus.txt > http://holyjoe.net/cure/newshift.txt > http://holyjoe.net/cure/newtypes.txt > http://holyjoe.net/cure/main.txt X I really did have an old list, bacause my back-up system was a little out-dated. I seem to have the infamous MS Windows Virus on my PC...;-) ==== > ass those two commands to your STARTUP program... Oops... lateral keyboard drift. Sorry. *Add* those two commands. -Joe- ==== > ass those two commands to your STARTUP program... Oops... lateral keyboard drift. Sorry. *Add* those two commands. -Joe- KIK COB ==== You can create a STARTUP global variable with any command, and save in the HOME directory ('STARTUP' STO); then when you warmstart (ON F3) the HP-49G, this charge all commands again. Please see, my usually STARTUP: .82 CLEAR CLLCD PINIT 2 ->LANGUAGE .82 257 MENU é 41.3 ASN IFERR 10 ->KEYTIME THEN KEYTIME-> END {# 3880038204110FF4h # 0h # 50400C0A100208h # 0h } STOF VARS SORT ORDER é Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK (M.A.C.H.) **************************************************************************** **** > ... ass those two commands... ? > > :-) !Demeter! ==== I found this fantastic 15C simulator for PocketPC: http://www.lygea.com/pocket15cdetail.htm Works just like a real calc, only better - bigger matrices, more program steps, view whole stack and all registers at once, cut and paste, etc. Graphic of calc is beautiful. The author has done a brilliant job. It's not free like Emu48, but it doesn't cost much and is perfect if you just want something simple, yet powerful, like the good ole 15C. I think we should support quality work like this that keeps RPN and the old HP way alive. ==== Maybe I could send you one? What is your address? Any others willing to try it on thie 48S/G calc? Veli-Pekka (I hope I did fool the spambots, but actully U just add u to my real address and change the welho to msn) > Is there a part number on the cover or manual that could allow me to order > one from HP? Haa! > I managed to slide in the HP 38G cover on my HP 48GX !! > The 39G used the same keyboard/case as the 49G but the 38G was a > completely new molding. There's no way that the 38G's sliding cover will > work with anything other than the 38G. I notice on the HP website awhile back that the HP 38G had a slide > cover. I > have looked over the HP site but can not find a mention to it in > replacement > parts. Sense the 38G is using the 48 stile case, those cover should > work on > the 48 as well. Does anyone know what the part number is for the > cover > or > know where covers can be found? Richard Garner > rgarner@vidnet.net > ==== > What does =AtUserStack do? I used it to clear the last command name saved, thus 0LASTOWDOB! suffices. It's important if you want to delete the aplet pressing LIB, selecting the aplet and then DEL. If you do not clear that, the error Object In Use occurs, but then this error has just cleared the reference to the library, and now it can be deleted. But as I said, I think it's better not to use an aplet, just the library as Martin Lang did with his LIB1540. If there's no aplet, it means that the user cannot delete it, so it's convenient to include a command in your library to do it. For example, something like this: ASSEMBLE CON(1) 4 RPL xNAME BYE1794 :: AtUserStack ' :: # 702 PurgeLib# ; ( PurgeLib# is at 27822 ) TOTEMPOB COLA_EVAL ; :: ( simple parser info for a command with no arguments ) 'Rapndit xBYE TrueTrue ; $ Purges library 1794 ( help string ) > How do I fetch Ans? You can do DoInCalcCxt LastBut0 > The code after LEN starting with onestring is it for parsing? Correct. > The help string is it found by the system scanning for the end of the > code after LEN? Not exactly. The nibble before the command (that '4') tells the system that the command has a help string, always placed after the parser data. Remember that this is for libs > 1793 (1792 & 1793 are built-in libs). > Is the CK1&Dispatch used by the parser to know the type of argument? > This is also something that I need to figure out how the parser > knows the number of arguments for a function. Please bear in mind that I am talking about *special* commands. You asked for a way to handle strings, which entails using that kind of commands, but this does not mean that all commands have to be written thus. Make sure you read and understand these more basic docs: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp39/pc/advapletprgrm.zip http://www.hpcalc.org/viewzip.php?id=1743&file=RPLMAN.DOC (Chapter 14: Checking Arguments) > Does LEN work in a program? Of course :) > What does StoAns@Drp and StoAns@ do? The former stores the result/output of your command into the variable Ans and then drops that result. When your command finishes, Ans is automatically retrieved if you are in home: if it isn't dropped, it appears twice. The latter does not drop the result. > Is impossible to make a function like STRING(Text)? > What is the command notation? AFAIK, quotes cannot be included inside parenthesis. But that's not a problem. On this calc, the distinction between command and function is not important: for example you can enter either SYSEVAL 171591 or SYSEVAL(171591). I called the former the command notation, i.e. STRING Text (Maybe I should use the word function all the time instead of command, if we take functions as commands allowable in algebraics... Anyway, why not call them just rom pointers? :) > I thought that if one can't make a function like STRING a command > like: > ->STRING Ans;Text > or > ->STRING NoteText;Text > might work like other commands (->GROB SUB etc.) Such a command can be written, of course, LEN was just a simple example. In fact, I plan to write a complete (or should I say compleat? :) string handling lib: SUB, POS, HEAD, TAIL, and so on. I hope to write it with Martin Lang, as I know he also wants to add such routines to his lib, using > Why is it possible to do: > Sub Ans;NoteText;1;1 > but not: > Sub L1(1);NoteText;1;1 SUB partly works for strings, because it's the same SUB that is on the 48. To fully support strings, it should be rewritten. > If you make some string variables (like NoteText) will this work then: > SUB Text1;NoteText;1;1 > ->STRING Text1;Text2*3more text I played with the idea of creating a new set of vars: S1 .. S0, (well, I should use another letter, S1 to S5 are the symbolic vars) but it was soon abandoned because there are already string variables: they're called notes! Here's more sample code: ASSEMBLE CON(1) 4 RPL xNAME RCL :: CK1&Dispatch THREE :: $>ID RclUserNot ( RclUserNot is at C1026 ) ?SKIP SETNONEXTERR StoAns@Drp ; ; :: filename !*triand 'Rapndit xRCL TrueTrue ; $ Recalls a note as a string RCL works in several ways: RCL MyNote, RCL MyNote and RCL 'MyNote' would return the contents of MyNote (in fact RCL would store the contents into Ans, only) The quotes are required if your note's name has certain chars: RCL My Note would recall a note called My Note. Hope this helps, I look forward to seeing your first aplet, Ronny! HPCC #1046 ==== > How can you solve inequalties in the hp 49g? > stuff like 2(x+5)<10. > what about cuadratic inequalties? (2x(x+2)>0) Use SOLVE, and be sure to have ROM v 1.19.6. > Hey, thats cool! thanks!! I also was wondering whats the difference beetween solve and solvevx. What about sistems of inequalties? can that be done? thanks again. [[A][C]] ==== > How can you solve inequalties in the hp 49g? > stuff like 2(x+5)<10. > what about cuadratic inequalties? (2x(x+2)>0) >Use SOLVE, and be sure to have ROM v 1.19.6. > > Hey, thats cool! thanks!! > I also was wondering whats the difference beetween solve and solvevx. > What about sistems of inequalties? can that be done? thanks again. > [[A][C]] Using SOLVEX you don't need to enter the variable to solve for, as this command will solve for the current variable vx, which you see at the top of the screen. (Usually it is X.) About system of inequations, well I never tried, but I don't think so. Anyway, try that and tell us what you found. , . ==== > into the OS and not taking up a 128KB RAM in slot 1. > Build-in 128KB extra RAM already MERGEd to the main RAM. > Build-in 256 RAM module in (internal) slot 1. > Build-in 1MB Flash RAM (no need for batteries) in slot 2. > Build-in ALG49/Erable49 as CAS (with enhancements) > Build-in ... this could go on forever. > PS: I almost forgot: MASD in ROM, Hacker tools in ROM, ... If only HP would combine all this with some decent hardware... You can say that again! I'm willing to PAY for a new HP 50G with real keys and Urroz Books I&II as (extra) manuals ==== > What a success ... I cannot sleep because I am so jealous ... It seems you have a problem... ==== > Would anybody like to share any recent opinions with Klotz Memory Cards. I think they are very good cards for been installed. I've a card of 1MB from Klotz in my port 2 working with no problems. I'm very happy with it: The only thing I don't like is not having knowledge of Klotz's cards BEFORE buying an expensive 128Kb HP card for port 1 :-( ==== >Would anybody like to share any recent opinions with Klotz Memory Cards. They look like quite a good deal. > I bought a 128k and 2M early last year and I am satisfied with them. Bill alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) ==== > If you go to the HP.COM web site they show a HP49 picture for the > calculator link. When you go there they do not list an HP49 as an > option. The only list 10bii, 12c, 30s, 39g, 48Gx, 9g, and 9s. If > they have indeed killed the 49g I say good bye. The way HP is going I may have to buy 5 HP41CX and 5 HP48GX off EBAY > as a life time supply of RPN calculators. The thought of using a > algebraic unit makes my cringe. Just my $0.02US worth. This was the response Quote Unfortunately, HP no longer carries the 49g calculator. You can still find the calculator on the web by searching for '49g' at the following sites. http://shopping.yahoo.com http://www.froogle.com Unquote Looks like HP49G is obselete V strange. Aubrey. ==== THIS SPRING !!! Maybe the Web is out of date? > If you go to the HP.COM web site they show a HP49 picture for the > calculator link. When you go there they do not list an HP49 as an > option. The only list 10bii, 12c, 30s, 39g, 48Gx, 9g, and 9s. If > they have indeed killed the 49g I say good bye. The way HP is going I may have to buy 5 HP41CX and 5 HP48GX off EBAY > as a life time supply of RPN calculators. The thought of using a > algebraic unit makes my cringe. Just my $0.02US worth. ==== !!** The one that will replace to 49G, aprox will come for August **!! I wanted to flame, towards the general direction of HP management, but i > decided to hold back. He he! But some little tiny flames may have helped that HP management to come back to the right way ;-) > Anyway, after years of lurking (except some few posts) i am now here. I'll inform HP to deny calculator sales to any Tsiros on this world ;-) , . ==== > Unfortunately, HP no longer carries the 49g calculator. ::Puzzled face:: ==== > THIS SPRING !!! Maybe the Web is out of date? Strange, so why would HP have the 49G omitted from their product range at; http://www.shopping.hp.com/cgi-bin/hpdirect/shopping/scripts/generic_store/g eneric_subcategory_view.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0229758247.1044044112@@@@&BV_En g ineID=ccdcadchgmmmghhcfngcfkmdfondfgg.0&category=calculators&subcat1=graphin g &cat_level=1&browse_link=true Maybe, it's a last burst of production to satisfy back-orders. Hopefully it's replaced by something like you are predicting with the 50GX+ or whatever. Richard S. ==== I agree on Wolfgang on this one: It's preferable to correct any math here, BUT as you can see from the reactions of people her, dear Wolfgang, there was some french genes in your blood since even Avenard (who is French as a man can be) seems to wonder your style. _Personally_ (which means that do what _you_ like) I would not start to argue with anybody (just a suggestion). I would just correct the maths by stating the correct and/or additional information and claim on a side note that this is for the newbies, and people with limited math background I personally didn't even notice any math flaws in any writings in this thread despite my engineering (math) studies (cumlaude) back in the end of 1970 in the Oulu university. > ... Learning linguistic discipline is a bacis task in math education, > and the most difficult to learn. What could clearly be said should > clearly be said. It's almost always shorter than any confusing text, in > particular in the derivation of the formula under discussion. Honnestly Wolfgang, I should it is now time for you to get drunk with > whatever you can find. Or as we say in French: Mets de l'huile Perhaps I should, but I don't know with whom. None of my colleges is > drinking (unless it is of first quality and payed by others :-) I hope > some day *we* will do that together. If people would argue as CC did with the complex number sequence f > defined > by f(n+2)=f(n)+ i*f(n+1) and f(0)=f(1)=1 they would fall into a trap. > There is an immense amount of software made by software engineers > without > adequate math background :-). hidden bug in your filer, probably more difficult to find than the > hidden poison-gas rockets in the Irak :-) > ==== > God save me from my friends! although I can't recall it at the moment. > Please, Joseph is right and I probably should not have let things get to > me in the first place whether I felt justified or not. Let's just let it > lie, eh? > As you wish, Colin! Though there are definitely cases where the voice *must* be raised! , . ==== Solidarity of the empty barrels :-) Better than a full barrel which permanently demonstrates how empty all other barrels are. Speaking of full, the question is: Full with what? . ==== Solidarity of the empty barrels :-) Oh! It ended! ??? For this time! > Just when it was tastefully Off Topic > ;-) Oh sorry, then I continue ;-) > PS: It's nice to be back and find out that you have all learned > good manners, respect for each other, and a naturally polite tongue > all this while I was away...;-) ;-) ;-) Good manners and polite tongue have to be replaced by protest sometimes. Not often, but sometimes. , . ==== Is it possible to get MTRW to use a minifont? I have set Font-7 in the MODE menu. ==== > Is it possible to get MTRW to use a minifont? Yes: -72 SF. Unfortunately, that also changes the stack display to mini-font. << -72 SF -43.2 KEYEVAL -72 CF >> 43.2 ASN changes the MTRW key (in USER mode) to automatically flip into the mini-font for the MatrwxWriter and then flip back to your font of choice when it exits. Hope this helps! -Joe- ==== I stand corrected. My English is not good enough to tell the difference, but now I know. > The word is incorrect information, if that is so. False implies that I > intended to mislead. which is not true. I went to the HP site as I did > tonight and it is not available from HP on their Website. They have the 48 > G but not the 49G. In any case, I have an unused 49G available for sale. ==== ... Are you sure that these weren't for warranty/repair puposes? Craig ==== Yes - I'm quite sure of that! BUT naturally they could make another batch for that purpose later on. > ... Are you sure that these weren't for warranty/repair puposes? Craig > ==== No Problem> I just went back to HP and did a 'complete' search in both the HPShopping area and in the entire Hp website and was unable to find an HP49G for sale. Besides a few 'how to use' references there was evidence that it has been relegated to the Virtual Calculator Museum. Of course, I hope they continue making it or some substitute with RPN because it is only 1 of 2 or 3 calculators with RPN left. If you come across a URL that would lead me to the information you have, I would appreciate it. Barry > I stand corrected. > My English is not good enough to tell the difference, > but now I know. > The word is incorrect information, if that is so. False implies that > I > intended to mislead. which is not true. I went to the HP site as I did > tonight and it is not available from HP on their Website. They have the > 48 > G but not the 49G. In any case, I have an unused 49G available for > sale. > ==== > After about a hundred reboots everything seems to be zero killed aka 0K > Good luck! . ==== > I want to ask you a question. It is possible to change the picture > showed in every warmstart and how can I make it? I think not because it is hard-coded in the system booter. You can, however, put some program into the STARTUP file so that a warmstart ends up with your picture, simliar to that at the start of the huge Demo library 1234 which comes with every new HP49. Send me your favourite picture (maybe in greyscale) and I'll make a program with a your picture, asking you by the way for your language choice and then fading slowly away by itself to the default screen. - Wolfgang ==== Sch.9anen Dank f.9fr das ver.9affentlichen des Problems aber das musste Gr.9fsse uss Kassel Rolf ==== More Math Fun from the Land of the Easily Amused! Do 8, square root, RDZ. Then: 3*RAND +8*RAND -5*RAND -6*RAND +7*RAND -8*RAND -9*RAND -3*RAND = 1. My gut feeling is that the above is totally *unexpected*. And yet, the only reason I went looking for it was because I *expected* it to occur. Hmmm. -Joe- -So many paradoxes, so little time- Expect the unexpected -- full-page advertisement by KLM airlines in Time magazine on the page facing the story about the Tenerife disaster in which two KLM 747's collided. ==== >More Math Fun from the Land of the Easily Amused! Do 8, square root, RDZ. Then: 3*RAND +8*RAND -5*RAND -6*RAND +7*RAND -8*RAND -9*RAND -3*RAND = 1. My gut feeling is that the above is totally *unexpected*. >And yet, the only reason I went looking for it was because I *expected* it >to occur. Hmmm. -Joe- -So many paradoxes, so little time- Expect the unexpected -- full-page advertisement by KLM airlines in Time >magazine on the page facing the story about the Tenerife disaster in which >two KLM 747's collided. > The story is very unexpected...... IIRC the Tenerife disaster was caused by a KLM 747 colliding on the runway with a Pan Am 747 during take-off.......... Arnold ==== > IIRC the Tenerife disaster was caused by a KLM 747 > colliding on the runway with a Pan Am 747 during > take-off.......... Quite right. I stand corrected. Or, to be precise, I sit corrected. -Joe- ==== > How do u solve a system of linear equations on the HP49G? I don't > understand the entry of the coefficients through matrices. >EX. > -3X+6Y=4 > 2X+Y=4 > ( I know the answer to this is obvious but it is just an example!) > > Thanxs in Advance >CID Thanxs Everyone I was able to try all of your solutions and find one > that was quick and easy! > THANXS again!! > CID With pleasure, CID! BTW, which one was quick and easy? , . ==== At this point each time i put an integer on stack I should get 0 but this is > what i really get: > 1 -65.814E-15 > 2 65.814E-15 > 3 -65.814E-15 > 4 3.2489E-12 > 5 -3.2489E-12 > ..... > Please help me solving this problem. (I get the same wrong result if I put > the calculator in RAD mode and try to calculate sin(2*pi)....) X > You can either accept the near-zero results, or you can write a test > to check the result and substitute zero if the magnitude is below some > arbitrary value. You know, this happens so often, I'm surprised HP > didn't supply a flag for rounding off small answers. EPSX0 will change any near-zero value (defined by EPS in CASDIR) to zero. You may found it useful. ==== i created a t49 file with WinHP but i don't know how to display it on my hp49. I know that you need a special libray. I found tgvplus on hpcalc.org. there are two files in the zip-archive: tgvplus.lib and tgv49.hp. In order to display the t49 files i transfered them in binary mode to my home-dir and moved the *.lib to port 1. What's the difference between these two files? Is it necessary to transfer both files to the hp49? What should i do to display my t49 file? thx! Stefan ==== Jyx ha scritto nel messaggio before answering... may I ask what ROM do you have installed? > Qith ROM 1.19-6 I hae the following behaviour: I also use ROM 1.19-6 mmmm.. this is in fact strange... same ROM and same flag settings and differente behaviour... could you pls post your entire flag settings? Any lib that holds commands instead of CAS? I'm not very experienced on undercover operations with HP49G but I can try to look deeper in the problem... hoping someone more skilled will partecipate in the discussion... Anyway try an ON+F3 or an ON+F3-Backspace (don't attach libraries while booting). Kickaha ==== X > Go to this web site, create an account, then post a bug.. You can even be > notified whenever the status of a bug is changed and it's the perfect way > not to loose any bug LOL Are the bugs being kept somewhere - in a jar or tin can? You have to keep the OS back-wards compatible!! ==== >are you ready to follow that? No. That's the problem. Everything relates to the HP48 where it seems more of the underlying system is visible to the user. I like to understand how things work and know what I am doing when programming. It must be because of my FORTH background. I have read your references is recomended to every HP38G owner. But it only gives a sketchy overview of the applet structrure. When I read it I didn't relate it to the applet skeleton. I will try that but feels that there are lots of things that isn't mentioned. At the moment I am trying to understand StoAns@Drp by singlestepping to see if I can figure out how to fetch the value of Ans. Testing with SYSEVAL and debugging gives quite quick turnaround time in the emulator. Later I will try your string library example and try to understand how it works. I am also looking for a decompiler - I think that might help me understand the system better. Single stepping takes a lot of time. Ronny ==== Santiago Beraza schreef in bericht > Same applies for me. > Santiago Beraza >> please could somebody tell me how i could use variables in matrix >> arithmetic . >> it is urgent please because i have an exam tomorrow and i really need it! >In my HP49, I just enter a matrix and when it comes to the variable I enter >it this way: >Ça+5Ç for example... Then I can find determinants and use RREF etc. etc., >with no problems. It is important that you begin pressing right-shift + O/eqw and write the >variable, followed by the same right-shift + O/eqw. Good luck tomorrow. Martin J. > ==== > I couldn't see a true engineer using a TI, IMO. And yet lots of engineers use 'em :-) At our university only because some idiot at HP told one of our professors that HP was not going to produce any more new calculators of the HP41 or HP48GX type.( What he should have said was that HP was not going to design any new calculators. This was about 7 or 8 recommended that TI calculators should be bought by all engineering and science majors. This was not really s big problem since TI had have to buy a new calc. Before that every engineering student and most professors had a 41 or 48 strapped to their belts Harold A. Climer Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy U. Tennessee at Chattanooga > AND > I did not understand a bit of this??? > What's going on? The gods are fighting ;-) -- ==== comp.sys.hp48, I'm a college calculus student and HP48 user. I need an approxiamation program w/ the left hand, right hand, midpoint, trapezoid, and Simpson's rule. I sincerely appreciate any assistance on where/how to obtain this program, Marcus ==== Since you are a student AND an HP48 user, I suggest you write the (very small+easy) programs for yourself. When unsuccessful, look at www.hpcalc.org and see if there is something to your liking... Caspar Marcus schreef in bericht > comp.sys.hp48, I'm a college calculus student and HP48 user. I need an approxiamation > program w/ the left hand, right hand, midpoint, trapezoid, and > Simpson's rule. I sincerely appreciate any assistance on where/how to obtain this > program, Marcus > urban: http://www.assault.tk/ ==== On the 49G, how do I take the results on the stack and use them in the Equation Writer? Is there a way to go between the stack view and EQW and copy and paste? Say though a series of calculations I get a result in the stack of 4.9873. Now I want to use that in a complicated calculation involving square roots and fractions. EQW will let me view the equation as I build it to see if I've put it together correctly. How do I get the number in the stack into the equations in the most efficient manor? How would I work with more than one number in my stack? Another, somewhat related question: Sometime I hit a wrong button and instead of (for example) adding two terms in the EQW, I hit subtract. How do I change the '+' to a '-' ? Using the arrow buttons I end up selecting whole terms and bypassing the operatives between them. Bill ==== > On the 49G, how do I take the results on the stack and use them in the > Equation Writer? Is there a way to go between the stack view and EQW > and copy and paste? I press down to edit the result. Then I press [Rightshift],[begin]; [Rightshift],[rightarrow]; [Rightshift],[end]; [Rightshift],[copy]; Then I open eqw, pressing [eqw]; pressing [Rightshift], [paste] to paste the selected result/equation/whatever into EQW. I donÇt know if thereÇs a faster/more efficient way, but if there is then IÇld also like to know it :-) > How would I work with more than one number in my stack? You select as much as you want to copy using the above mentioned method. > Another, somewhat related question: Sometime I hit a wrong button and > instead of (for example) adding two terms in the EQW, I hit subtract. > How do I change the '+' to a '-' ? Using the arrow buttons I end up > selecting whole terms and bypassing the operatives between them. I press [w] = [+/-]. YouÇre welcome. ==== >> P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the >> calculator? I calculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35 minutes >= 2.8556hours! > Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because > XPON doesn't > work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)? > Look into logarithms. ==== > P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the >> calculator? I timed it, it didn't take that long: 112623.1127 seconds Let's see if anyone can beat that ;) > Note that is equal to 1877.05 minutes, or 31.28 hours. Al, I think in such cases it would be better to give the number of battery sets used. ;-) > I wish I had a printer to pring the result. Is there anyway to > 'word wrap' the line in the text viewer? Only thing I can think of: << ->STR -> str wordwrapstr << WHILE str SIZE 30 > @Number of chars per line = 30. Change as you wish. REPEAT 'wordwrapstr' str 1 30 SUB STO+ 'wordwrapstr' STO+ @Add new line char num 10 str 31 OVER SIZE SUB 'str' STO END wordwrapstr str + >> , . ==== Yes, it does, but as the calculation time is so long, the time to display the beast should be of minor importance. Or am I wrong here? , . > And does this take display time into acount? -Samuel > P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the > calculator? >Actually I don't know, I let it run after dinner until I came back > from work next day, which was just before dinner. Poor fella HP49G, had to crunch on numbers while the rest of the > family was having dinner. Hope that you gave it its reward next > morning. (A juicy set of new batteries, yummy! ;-)) > It did within 24 hours. How do I time how long it takes to do > a calculation? You can use the command TEVAL. In this case you could for example > enter the number 9999, then enter the program << ! >>, and then press > [TEVAL]. The program would be evaluated, and the result of 9999! would > be returned on stack level 2. The time in seconds to accomplish the > task would be returned on stack level 1. Sleepy , > . ==== > P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the > calculator? I calculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35 minutes > = 2.8556hours! > Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because > XPON doesn't > work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)? Ivan, is that a turbo charged HP40? , . ==== > P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the > calculator? I calculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35 minutes > = 2.8556hours! > Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because > XPON doesn't > work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)? Oh, and about number of digits, ->STR SIZE could work. , ==== I calculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35 > minutes > = 2.8556hours! > Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because > XPON doesn't > work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)? Ok something must be wrong with my calc because mine took 10 times as > long... Ah I know why, I didn't use the calculator, I used the emulator, and then I > closed > it for a while and continue the calculation later, but the emulator thought > that it > was calculating throughout the whole time it wasn't even running. It gets > its clock > from the system clock of the pc, which does advance independant of the > emulator. I was wondering how mine could have taken 30 something hours when the real > 49g > did within 24 hours. Even 24 hours are too much compared to the 3 hours that ivan reported. Is the HP40 so much faster? , . ==== > Yes, it does, but as the calculation time is so long, the time to > display the beast should be of minor importance. Or am I wrong here? I doubt you're wrong :) I was curious because on my ti89 something like 299! (This is the maximum you can do with a factorial) will take about two seconds to calculate but another 12 seconds to display. I have written a routine in 68k assembly that can convert the result of 299! to text in about a third of a second. Anyways I'm impressed the 49g can do 9999! -Samuel www.calvin.edu/~sstear70/ ==== > Yes, it does, but as the calculation time is so long, the time to > display the beast should be of minor importance. Or am I wrong here? If you have a look at what TEVAL decompiles to, no it doesn't. The display code is buried somewhere in the System Outer Loop (SOL), but TEVAL has to finish before control returns to the SOL. However it indeed seems to be of minor importance. I put a ZINT of about 35000 1's on the stack (agreed, that's only *close* to the test case, but far easier to construct...) and then ran :: ' :: ClrDAsOK ?DispStack ; xTEVAL ; and got 0.4309 seconds. -- Rast If you cannot convince them, confuse them. -- Harry S. Truman ==== >> P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the >> calculator? I calculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35 minutes >= 2.8556hours! > Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because > XPON doesn't > work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)? Look into logarithms. Logarithm returns the number of zeros, but how to get the exact number of digits. In numeric mode hp40g return 500 for log(9999!) SIZE and XPON don't work the right way!!? ==== > hi NK! thanks for your response and glad to hear you have similar views. HP49G-experiments again? ;-) psss...sometimes i write from a place i shouldn't (if you know what i > mean). i had to go to set up a podium (speakers, mike,etc). OK, me silent :-| > In fully agreement, with some commends. I would make a small (vague) > exception regarding mathematics, and that is because mathematics/logic > seems to be the basis of all our thinking. (Not sure, but the newest > brain experiments *seem* to certify that - even feelings seem to be > very logical and material in nature.) So, if the brain, which was made > by a nature that we now want to understand, was made in this way that > its kernel runs mathematically, then one could tend to say that it > will best fit nature/reality using exactly this way of thinking. It > does all what it does inside the laws which created it. first one in a different way. it was my understanding that the human > brain is not logical. there are several modes in human reason, and > analogic reasoning is used 99% of the time. we don't stop and deduce > the correct answer, but we leap to a similar situation using our > memory and from here we obtain the outcome to a new situation. Yes, we are using naive analogies often. Something like a huge lookup table, full of when this, then that rules. But this is only a first step. After this more (should) come. > this > does not mean that we don't think logically but that we do it at very > specific times (and after some training). also, to think logically > with common language has its caveats. language does not work like math > because language is ambiguous (as opposed to math which has its own > specific rules). I meant the math logic. > sometimes we confuse the dictionary description (a > language/communication tool) with the thing. have you ever tried to > buy something used in a newspaper add. sometimes it looks real good in > paper till you see it. I guess this is what happens most of the time. ;-) > and sometimes even more, the description (in > words) of the add may set you to buy it (we follow their meaning). and > only after you have it in your house a couple of days, you realize > that that is not that good. some things can only be described with > other words. we can only infer their meaning by using more words (or > other symbolic machinery). In this specific case, Rcobo, I think it is the creatives who simply say/write things that aren't true. Intented fooling of the customers, I would name it. > we try to dig up some things by mental > explorations and in the process we insert our perceptions. Yes, sir! That is what we do. We must accept this if we want to be sincere to ourselves. > all i am > trying to say here is that to build faith in logic has its caveats > sometimes. imagine how many words we read everyday. we bathe in a > Niagara of words from the time we get up till we close our eyes. how > many of those words are like the newspaper add?. this is the nature of > semantic constructions. Undoubtfully you are right. But there is the refuge of the strictly mathematically defined logic and all what it implies. > On the other hand, this is not necessary. It could also be that we, > humans, recognize too many patterns, where perhaps no patterns exist. > We tend very often to generalize specific observations and make them > to rules/laws, which we expect to govern the world, without any > further proof. For example: Take the first law of thermodynamics. It > was never proven but only certified over and over again in many many > (but not infinite many) experiments. We see that a special behavior > repeats itself again and again, and then we say that this again and > again is the same like always. This is not deduction. This is > induction, and also not perfect induction. It has been fruitable (and > gave as machines, cars and the like), but it is not 100% sure that > this has to be a law of nature, though very very very unlikely that it > could be the other way around. It is very very very unlikely that we > made all experiments that show us that this is a law, and none of the > experiments that show the opposite, but it is not impossible. i sure agree with the 'thermodynamics law.' i am not that lost yet ;) I *was* that lost, or say asleep, until a good prof. woke me up. The awakening was similar to an earthquake for me, but after all it was good. > i agree that there are things that seem work in a certain way no > matter what (viva science!). but yet we see this from a perspective > (it comes down to us). maybe the last ultimate word is not the > experiment, but the interpretation we give to the experiment. maybe > we'll all become scientific processes one day ;) What you say is more or less equivalent to there are more than one models which describe and predict (almost) the same. We choose according to our views. And I agree. My focus was rather on the fact that there are also models based solely on (repeated) observation. Another example would be special relativity here. After so many experiments failed, that tried to prove the existence of the ether, there came a man (yes, *that* man) and simply supposed that not only many but *all* experiments will fail. And assumed that ether doesn't exist. And you know how it went on... The theory was a triumph. But it started out of induction (from many to all). > The other way, deduction, is also not necessarily absolute in what it > says, because it needs axioms, things to start with, and these things > are taken for the truth with no further justification. For example, > nobody up to today can *prove* that A=A, though we seem to be > incapable of even imagining the opposite. Any statement that results > through deduction out of unproven axioms, is proven within and only > within this set of axioms, even if those axioms seem to be of > universal validity. agree What remains? Almost nothing? Not at all! The fact that we have > managed to do so much (and meanwhile are able to destroy our planet) > is a strong indicator that our vision of reality has to be at least > very close to real reality. I would say damned close! well, we could also ask what is the place of science. i think that > science has its place in favoring us. i agree that one can get a > scientific reality but one should set himself above science so as to > use science for helping his life and others and not as a means to an > end. it is a matter of orientation. i think that the live that one > lives is where the cheese is at, the *real* reality ;) This crossovers to philosophy (and it's good that it does). But don't worry, *there can be no end*. There will never be the endth theory of eveything, no matter what Hawking says (since years ;-)). > Being happy that I can understand a tiny part of what is, > I send my to all, who I never proved they exist. > . i don't even understand a tiny part ;) Oh yes, you do. You know where the cheese is ;-) > hope one day an alien will > come and explain what the heck is going on. in the meantime i'll keep > pedaling Allow me to take part in that pedaling, though my skills fade away as the kgs rise. ;-) whenever you teach something, don't forget to teach how to doubt that > what you have just taught > Ortega y Gasset Yes, like a good old game of poker. , . ==== can I use my old printer HP82240B with the HP49G? I doesn't found anything about printing in the HP49G manual, but in CAT I found the commands PR1. Is there a more detailed manual in the internet available about HP49G? The manual in the HP49G box is in some cases not so detailed. Hans Joachim (.de) ==== > can I use my old printer HP82240B with the HP49G? Not directly, no. Sorry. The printer's only interface is IR, and the HP49G has no IR port. > ... in CAT I found the commands PR1. You *can* print from the HP49G, but only to a serial device connected to the wire I/O port. > Is there a more detailed manual in the internet available about HP49G? Go to www.hpcalc.org and scroll down to the HP49G section. Hope this helps! -Joe- ==== Does anyone know how emu48ce works with PDA's based on 400Mhz Intel Xscale processor (iPaq 3970, Siemens Loox 600) with Pocket PC 2002 OS? Can I use and store data, software (found at hpcalc.org) and work with it like on real HP48/49 calculator? ==== HP41CX (not working) plus FA-2 cassette adaptor interface for auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2304774436 Happy Bidding ! ==== > Yes, I'll add some remark to Fontman.txt but the parameter changer > will continue to recalculate modulo 256 (not 245). > That's a good solution. That way, intelligent users will know why to > avoid font ID's above 244, but will still be able to use a font ID > above 244 ... Well, knowing that an ID > 244 does cause problems in using the stylers is perhaps lesser a question of intelligence but of information :-) Couldn't that have been avoided? A font contains the nibble pair for the length of name string twice, before and after the name, and hence a redundance of 2 nibbles. Fontman v.6 sets new Font Parameter (FP) in a dialog box, for newbees. FP parameter changer. This clearly provides a faster user dialog. JKH's FP changer has 332 bytes, my equivalent FP changer has 136 bytes only and is much faster. What makes it particularly small and fast is the nice new 49-command SREPL. - Wolfgang ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/fonttools/ ==== For transfer data into HP, is neccesary a serial cable RS232-HP. The cable is ... F1897-66000 from Hewlett Packard and the Connectivity Pac (one CD and the cable) is ... HP-F1897A. Your cost is ~ U$S 30. I'm didn't recommended make one, but if you thing what have, please consult the Eric Rechlin Web site (www.hpcacl.org or http://ca-on.hpcalc.org) and type in the window search ... enrico carta. Enrico write over the pinouts. Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK **************************************************************************** **** > Craig Reed escribi.97 en el mensaje I don't have a cable to connect my 48GX to a computer; how do I > migrate the files I want from hpcalc.org into my 48gx? Is there some > way I can type them in? > Craig > Yes if you get the source from the zip archives when download. > Other way is install the programs in an emulator and get the programs > yourself. > You will need many many time for typing some big prgs... > I strongly recommend the cable: it is a very good investment for getting a > more powerful calculator. > ==== We are 2 student that are trying to port linux (Timesys GPL) to an Embedded SH3 system. Everything works fine until we need to boot from the filesystem. We tried a few Ramdisk and Initrd Howto's but nothing seems to work. Is there anybody outthere that could provide us an initrd or ramdisk from approximataly 4Mb or less? this is what we tried, so far: We tried busybox. put the right libs in Ramdisk. > negative We tried busybox. build it static . > aren't able to compile. The initrd is found. Take a look at the terminal logfile: De head.s file wordt geladen! . On node 0 totalpages: 4096 zone(0): 4096 pages. zone(1): 0 pages. zone(2): 0 pages. CPU clock: 88.47MHz Bus clock: 44.23MHz Module clock: 22.11MHz Interval = 13824 Memory: 8956k/16384k available (1668k kernel code, 7428k reserved, 106k data, 48k init) Calibrating delay loop... 44.13 BogoMIPS Dentry-cache hash table entries: 2048 (order: 2, 16384 bytes) Inode-cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 1, 8192 bytes) Mount-cache hash table entries: 512 (order: 0, 4096 bytes) Buffer-cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes) Page-cache hash table entries: 4096 (order: 2, 16384 bytes) CPU: SH7709A/SH7729 POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039 Initializing RT netlink socket Starting kswapd v1.8 devfs: v0.107 (20010709) Richard Gooch (rgooch@atnf.csiro.au) devfs: boot_options: 0x2 pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured Serial driver version 5.05c (2001-07-08) with no serial options enabled ttyS01 at 0x02f8 (irq = 3) is a 16450 SuperH SCI(F) driver initialized ttySC0 at 0xfffffe80 is a SCI ttySC1 at 0xa4000150 is a SCIF ttySC2 at 0xa4000140 is a SCIF Real Time Clock Driver v1.10d block: queued sectors max/low 5754kB/1918kB, 64 slots per queue RAMDISK driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 4096K size 1024 blocksize loop: loaded (max 8 devices) IP Protocols: ICMP, UDP, TCP IP: routing cache hash table of 16 buckets, 2Kbytes TCP: Hash tables configured (established 32 bind 52) RAMDISK: Compressed image found at block 0 Freeing initrd memory: 4096k freed VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem). Mounted devfs on /dev Voert linuxrc uit kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major-2, errno = 2 VFS: Cannot open root device or 02:00 Please append a correct root= boot option Bart & Dennis ==== Mini-challenge: PRIME DATE PAIRS As has been pointed out in this newsgroup, dates should be programmatically stored in the form yyyymmdd since they can be easily sorted *and* they are As you know, the only two integers on the number line which are adjacent and prime are 2 and 3. However, there are many consecutive prime date pairs on the date line, for example 20020531 and 20020601, which are adjacent days (when read as dates) and are both prime numbers (when read as 8-digit integers). This differs from ordinary prime pairs which are understood to be primes that differ by 2, such as 11 and 13. A) What are the *next* three prime date pairs (in the future)? B) What are the next three years that have TWO prime date pairs each? C) What are the next three leap-year (Feb/Mar) prime date pairs? D) What are the next three weekend (Sat/Sun) prime date pairs? E) What are the next three prime date pairs that are also prime pairs? F) Same as C above but only for years divisible by 400. G) Is it possible for a year to have THREE prime date pairs? The mini-challenge this time is to find the answers using User RPL (libraries are allowed) and share your methods and insights with the group. That way, everybody wins. 1 Bonus Point if you were born on a prime date. -Joe- ==== > Your derivation of the formula r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 is not quite > but nearly correct. > Under the assumption the sequence [q_n] with q_n = F(n+1)/F(n) is > convergent with limit r, say - and JKH definitely allows this > assumption - one can argue as follows: F(n+2) = a*F(n+1) + b*F(n). > Division by F(n+1) yields q(n+1) = a + b/q(n). Now, as is well known, > the limes operation and arithmetical base operations commute. Hence, > lim [a + b/q(n)] = a + b/r. Clearly, also lim [q(n+1] = r. Therefore, > r = a + b/r. Now, this is equivalent to r = [sqrt(a^2 + 4b)]/2 as long > as r is positive (which it is :-) Incidentally, you said that my result of r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 was 'nearly' correct. I think that if you check more carefully you will find that it is your value which is incorrect. Your working above is almost exactly the same as the working I quoted in my initial posting and r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 is simply the positive root of the quadratic r = a + b/r. Try checking your CAS and you will simply get my result. ==== > Your derivation of the formula r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 is not quite > but nearly correct. > Incidentally, you said that my result of r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 was > 'nearly' correct. > For the normal Fibonacci sequence, F(n)=1*F(n-1)+1*F(n-2), we assume > that at the limit as n->infinity, we have r = F(n+1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1). This is mathematically confusing and even meaningless. Let's omit that you didn't mention n > 1 in your recursion formula. I concentrate on the essential. The equation r = F(n+1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) is simply false for each n > 1 because it follows from the context that you reserved r for the limes of the sequence [F(n+1)/F(n)], hence is a constant. And what means at the limit as n->infinity? This does not make sense as well, even linguistically. You continue > [F(n)+F(n-1)]/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) > => F(n)/F(n) + F(n-1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) This is correct, and you coud have started just with these equations, omitting the previous nonsense completely. Next you write > => 1 + 1/r = r This is a critical step. It should have been at least mentioned that the lim operation commutes with the arithmetical operations + and / which is not at all trivial. Here is also essentially used that lim [F(n+1)/F(n)] really exist. Next you write > I think that if you check more carefully you will find > that it is your value which is incorrect. Nothing in my first reply to your post was incorrect, apart from my precipitate proposal to make you the winner which I herewith withdraw. > Your working above is almost exactly the same as the working I quoted > in my initial posting What means almost? The style makes the difference. Better you'd not have replied too fast. You (and me as well) would have saved time :-) - Wolfgang ==== >>Incidentally, you said that my result of r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 was >>'nearly' correct. > > > In fact, what you said in your earlier posting was... > Hence, > lim [a + b/q(n)] = a + b/r. Clearly, also lim [q(n+1] = r. Therefore, > r = a + b/r. Now, this is equivalent to r = [sqrt(a^2 + 4b)]/2 as long > as r is positive (which it is :-) Your formula was r = [sqrt(a^2 + 4b)]/2, whereas my formula for the value of r was r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 . It seems to me that since our formulas are different it would have been difficult for me not to draw the conclusion that you were saying I was wrong in my formula. As for your criticism: > The equation r = F(n+1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) is simply false for >> each n > 1 Of course it is! That's why I said as n tends to infinity. The values are of course never precisely equal but as n approaches infinity the fractions can be manipulated as units if they were equal (as you did too except you called them q(n+1)). In the interests of brevity, bearing in mind how difficult it is to write mathematical formulae readably in ascii, I had not written it strictly correctly. Oh dear, how sad. Most people reading it would have interpreted it, as you apparently did as: lim F(n+1) lim F(n) r = n->inf ------ = n->inf ------ F(n) F(n-1) > Let's omit that you didn't mention n > 1 in your recursion formula. Again, oh dear, how sad. I assumed a certain degree of intelligence on the part of the reader as I did in the limit working. Sue me. > This is a critical step. It should have been at least mentioned that > the lim operation commutes with the arithmetical operations + and / > which is not at all trivial. Here is also essentially used that > lim [F(n+1)/F(n)] really exist. Next you write I was not intending to present a textbook example of a limit problem. If I had included complete justification of every step I would have written so much that people would have missed the point in all the verbiage. **This is not a maths forum.** I had a conversation with a drunken university mathematics professor a few days ago who told me in tedious detail that by encouraging the use of graphical calculators in high school I was damaging the prospects of the students and corrupting the purity of the study of mathematics. He felt that maths students should not be allowed anything more than pencil and paper and log tables and spent some time telling me that every student should be able to prove everything from first principles. It sounds as if you would sympathise with him. I'm not normally this blunt in a posting. You've succeed in pissing me off. Congratulations. I won't be responding to any further postings on this topic. Frankly I don't care whether or not I won. That was never my intention in the first place. ==== > As for your criticism: > The equation r = F(n+1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) is simply false for >> each n > 1 > Of course it is! That's why I said as n tends to infinity. With this formulation you would not pass any university examination in math. Learning linguistic discipline is a bacis task in math education, and the most difficult to learn. What could clearly be said should clearly be said. It's almost always shorter than any confusing text, in particular in the derivation of the formula under discussion. In my 1st reply I even accepted your confusing text and tried politely to correct it. If I'd known your arrogance I wouldn't have done that. university professor in math would have uttered such stupid things even if he is totally drunk. I always encourage my students in math and info to use graphic calculators. And many students are happy doing this. - Wolfgang ==== REMINDER: The primary goal of the mini challenges on comp.sys.hp48 is FUN, not eternal truth or technical perfection. The newsgroup needs no moderator this in mind in future mini challenges. The winners of this contest are: 1st Place: Jonathan Busby for the 30-byte solution: << 2 / DUP SQ ROT + SQRT + >> It works on both HP48 and HP49, and returns an exact solution on the HP49 in exact mode. 2nd Place: Wolfgang Rautenberg for the 28-byte solution: << -1 UNROT ->V3 PROOT 2 GET >> This only returns an approximate answer, and requires the inputs to be in backwards order, but it's still elegant. Fixing the code to take the inputs in correct order is left as an exercise for the student. 3rd Place: Wolfgang again, for the idea of using EGVL, which he didn't code but which could be done something like this: << 1 0 { 2 2 } ->ARRY EGVL 2 GET >> This, like Jonathan's program, returns exact solutions on the 49G in exact mode, but this one seems to have the benefit of returning answers in simplified form, and the drawbacks of being slower and requiring the inputs to be in backwards order. Two unfinished business items: is: Because that's what Pell started it with. Also because, as indicated in the original post in this thread, that's what you get if you start with 0 1, just like the Fibonacci sequence. (2) Colin & Wolfgang: shake hands and play nice. You're both highly valued members of the comp.sys.hp48 community, but don't let your eG0BEEP. ;-) -Joe- ==== > Did you really search all the commands in all menus > yourself alone? Yes. Heavens! > If so, how did you do that? Manually, going through the Menu Number List one menu at a time. You must be a very patient person, Joe. > Speaking > of which, please be aware that the HP49G Menu Number List has also been > updated: http://holyjoe.net/cure/menus.txt Oh, thanks, I noticed that and downloaded the document. > Unfortunately, there are many menus in the HP49G which are not numbered. I > think that those menus can all be accessed by typing MAIN. The MAIN menu > and its submenus are in the MAIN Menu List at > http://holyjoe.net/cure/main.txt Yes, that's kind of strange to me. I thought that any menu must have its number. I (almost) never use these unnumbered menus, but nonetheless it is strange. It seems that I'm wrong. , . ==== > As I'm not an IP expert, is there a way how to surf without using DNS, > but > not offline. For example I want to connect to my comp just by using IP > address. This is done : with version 0.3-2701, 10.11.12.13 RESOLV returns #A0B0C0Dh as expected, so that surfing with IPs should be possible. -- Samuel Thibault csp.tar.gz: ascii text -+- #ens-mim - vive les browsers qui prennent des initiatives .88 la con -+- ==== Together with the distribution of emacs110a, IÇve been reading the Emacs.txt file and thereÇs a tutorial I donÇt understand. IÇve searched google NG, but realized that I need help here because I must be too stupid to solve the problem myself :-( I do this (copied and pasted from Emacs.txt): ------------------------- 1. Press APPS, select Emacs and press the AsnEmacs key to make a few useful key assignments. In the tutorial we will use RightShift & DOWNARROW = RPLED RightShift & RIGHTARROW = RPLCPL LeftShift & LEFTARROW = SDIAG where the & means to hold down the shift key while pressing the arrow key. 2. Start writing a UserRPL program by pressing RightShift <<>>. The builtin Editor starts up. Press RightShift <<>> a few more times to get more nested program delimiters (we will need them later). 3. Switch to the Emacs application menu by pressing RightShift & DOWNARROW. Press the Help key and then OK to see a chart of all Emacs commands. Press any key to go back to the command line. When I do the last thing: holding down RightShift and pressing the down-arrow-key the cursor moves down to the last line, but the emacs application doesnÇt start. When I enter the libs menu and press RPLED the editor starts just fine. IÇve now downloaded the keyman-library but nothing changes. I donÇt understand this. Could anybody please help? Martin J. ==== We have been without hp49 calculators in Spain since November. I would like to know if same situation happens in the rest of Europe, to know how the new European main distributor works. I have asked today, and they've told me to wait until second week of February. Could you imagine worst image for HP? People has begun their university exams in January, and most of them couldn't buy a hp49. Of course, they don't need a hp49 for the exam or could buy a hp48 instead, but... you know, market rules, and many people is very angry with HP because they have been telling that calculators would arrive next week. This is about HP, not the local or national providers, since both get their calcs from the European distributor. So, hp49 has dissapeared from Spanish market for almost 4 months. In November we couldn't find any hp49 in any market in Spain. As I said before, I would like to know which is the situation in rest Europe. J.Manrique ==== I have wait since end of October 2002 for the HP49G. HP can not deliver. HP is a very good professional companay ;-) Hans Joachim (.de) In <11624751.0301271120.65a2924f@posting.google.com> J.Manrique Lopez de We have been without hp49 calculators in Spain since November. I would > like to know if same situation happens in the rest of Europe, to know > how the new European main distributor works. I have asked today, and they've told me to wait until second week of > February. Could you imagine worst image for HP? People has begun their > university exams in January, and most of them couldn't buy a hp49. Of > course, they don't need a hp49 for the exam or could buy a hp48 > instead, but... you know, market rules, and many people is very angry > with HP because they have been telling that calculators would arrive > next week. This is about HP, not the local or national providers, since both get > their calcs from the European distributor. So, hp49 has dissapeared from Spanish market for almost 4 months. In > November we couldn't find any hp49 in any market in Spain. As I said before, I would like to know which is the situation in rest > Europe. > J.Manrique > ==== anyone please tell me how to enter piecewise and step functions on the HP48GX? I'd really appreciate it. Also, is there an an way to find the second derivative directly? I've been finding the first derivative, writing it down on paper (which can be a pain), then entering it in again to find the second derivative. As you can see, this leaves lots of room for human error, and it's already cost me some points on two exams. Jennifer ==== > anyone please tell me how to enter piecewise and step functions on the > HP48GX? I'd really appreciate it. The HP48GX doesn't have the step by step mode. Only the HP49G offers this functionality. I hardly use it, so I can't comment how useful it is. > Also, is there an an way to find the second derivative directly? I've > been finding the first derivative, writing it down on paper (which can > be a pain), then entering it in again to find the second derivative. > As you can see, this leaves lots of room for human error, and it's > already cost me some points on two exams. Use the stack to do this or write a small program. Example how to do this on the stack (RAD-mode): 'SIN(X)' 'X' [r-shift]-[SIN] gives you the first derivative: 'COS(X)' put again 'X' on the stack [r-shift]-[SIN] gives you the second derivative: 'SIN(X)' Roman Jennifer ==== > I agree, completely! And by posting in this NG, others will also > benefit from the answers/discussion. Bothering individuals IMHO would > be waste of time and considering the fact that posts in this NG is > read by many people, one could surely also expect a better answer to > a problem here, since different approaches to a problem, here can be > taken.. Here a posting I got today from Ich besch.8aftige mich gerade mit meinem 49 G und habe noch nicht > verstanden wie verstanden wie das mit den Library funktioniert. > Ich wollte erst mal ein Grundverst.8andniss wie sie anlege und dann > die Befehle gebe, auf eine Antwort w.9frde ich mich freuen. Vielleicht > bekomme und dann dort bearbeiten kann um die Variablen abzulesen. > Sch.9anen Gruss aus Kassel - Rolf Eckhardt I don't understand the question. What is xls? Maybe somebody else could reply :-) - Wolfgang ==== > Mama mia! Do we have all now? Here's another one! Assume that two linear equations in X and Y are on the > stack. << 'X' ISOL DUP UNROT SUBST > 'Y' ISOL DUP UNROT SUBST EVAL That's the substitution method we learned as children. It can be extended > to solve a 3x3 system by adding another line, or to an NxN system by putting > the whole thing in a loop. Nice! So the didactic part has also its representants. > That's precisely the kind of homework (writing > such programs) that I assigned to my students to help them learn the > substitution method back in the days when we used HP programmable > calculators in the classroom. Those happy fellas! > *sigh* Gone are the days. And even more *sigh*, I never had the luck to be in such a class! The days ended before I could see them starting. But after all, this group simply refuses to vanish! Defenders of the faith :-) , . ==== Is there a way on a HP 49G to find all possible sets of (x,y) in a function f: R^2->R (Two variables are needed to produce only one result.) Example: f(x,y)=(x/2)-(x*y^2)+(9*y^2) //Solution in this case: (0,0), (9,3) and (9,-3) Stefan ==== Where can i get a Syseval address list for the HP 49G? I also need a good (most importantly complete) library tutorial, also for the 49g. ==== i need some help, where can i get a syseval address list for the HP 49G? I also need to get a good (most importantly complete) library tutorial. A.C ==== Specifics: 1.19-6, CAS - rigorous, Simp non-rationals, exact Flags set - 27,56,57,62,72,80,81,90,117 Take the 'fluids' equation below: hf=((3.012*L*V^1.85)/(C^1.85*D^1.165)) Solve for 'V'; and more importantly, you want the resulting expression to look like this - extra paranthese not needed, thanx: V=((.551*hf^.5405*C*D^.6297)/(L^.5405)) Also, I noticed while trying to linearize (LIN) the equation in approximate mode no change occurred. However, when I switch to exact mode and then applied the LIN command, the equation is linearized - of course after asking to switch to approximate. Go figure. ==== The new version of FEM48, version 5.1, can be found at: http://home.hccnet.nl/c.lugtmeier/index2.html (or use the direct link http://home.hccnet.nl/c.lugtmeier/HP48Fil/Fem48/FEM48v51.zip ) The port to the HP49 is still in progress... Caspar See condensed changes below: Will also be available as FEM49, thanks to Alain Robillard * FEM48 module .87 changed default configuration settings * MOVLD module .87 moving loads are now possible on all kind of structures (was only on beams) * WIZRD module .87 added MLCG, MLXG and MLZG commands: generate MLC, MLX and MLZ loads for the global system .87 updated menugrobs * LCASE module .87 new load case and combinations module .87 now you can save loads as load cases and make combinations of load cases .87 includes updates of FEM48 commands like SAVEFEM2, PGLD2, SCALC2 etc * FEM48 module .87 added temperature loads option with command MLT .87 added display of choice position and choice list length to FBROW browser .87 SCALC now always uses Cholesky solver .87 added recall state of toggle commands (e.g. now BZË sets state and BZ? recalls state) .87 CHOL command removed .87 LCAS command added .87 modified SINFO display .87 added protection for FBROW for large header strings .87 removed autocalculation with SPLOT command (when DFORË is toggled on) .87 added recall state of toggle commands * QUERY module .87 modified NPLT, VPLT, MPLT, UXPLT, RYPLT and UZPLT commands, which make it possible to plot N, V, M, etc lines for more than one member in one plot (handy for continuous beams) .87 now also scrolling along plotted graphs, with displayed values under plot (trace mode) .87 removed batchplot facilities .87 removed QMEM commands, now member provided by user for each command (faster) .87 improved scaling of constant value plots (now in middle of screen) .87 improved reaction to ON (cancel) key .87 added optional tagging of stack results .87 added recall state of toggle commands * WIZRD module .87 added Ix to SED48 link (was only choice of Iy and Iz), order is now: Ix Iy Iz, with default position on Iy .87 bugfix: now Iz selection in SED48 link chooses Iz correctly (was Iy) * PRINT module .87 all non-integers are now displayed using stack format (e.g. 3 ENG) * MOVLD module .87 MOVLD command is now available from the FEM menu (Left-Shift SCALC or SCALC2) .87 now a nullnamed library ==== I'm terribly sorry, my Question was badly stated. Clearly, if a pointer is a program in the normal ROM one can extract from it whatever is wanted. Best I explain the things again on the above example. Put the unsupported but stable PTR 2F3B3 on the stack, the SysRPL counterpart of ASN (called AsnKey in the 48 documents but for mysterious reason named StoUserKeypatch_ by CD in the latest edition of extable). This pointer is itself not a program (as tells as XEQTYPE) but points to flash ROM, precisely to FPTR 1 55A. Its content is essentially JYA's reprogramming of ASN from the ROM which introduced the user shiftholds keys. Fortunately, FPTR 1 55A is definite, i.e., it can completely be extracted by the flashpointer-extractor I got from CdB extra for ROM 19-6 (it is contained in DTYPE from OT49). FPTR 1 55A has the critical PTR 1D700 at the very end of its runstream. But the extractor is a code of 112.5 bytes, too much to be included in a program that makes a singly use of PTR 1D700 only. It corresponds to the 48-pointer PTR 41E32 I mentioned in the thread Switching user keymaps. Since PTR 1D700 will probably move in ROM 19-7, I look for the cheapest way to extract it from another object whose address remains unchanged in ROM 19-7 and which will automatically move all unstable pointer inside. This is all I want at the moment :-) Wolfgang PS1. In the worst case I've to use the content of PTR 1D700 which is long since all pointers inside (quoting the names UserKeys and UserKeys.CRC etc) are unsupported. IMHO, if would have been better if lib 256 contained a FPTR extractor instead of some other dispensable toy :-) ==== I need your help. I use the command CK1&Dispatch to check for an Argument on a stack and then test if it's a char string(with BINT3).Something like this: CK1&Dispatch BINT3 :: foo ; It's working but I get the message XLIB 1389 118 Error: Too few Argument when I don't put anything on the stack. What should I do to get only the message Error: Too few Argument. Why did I get XLIB 1389 118 Error. Dimitri Edem Missoh ==== Simply write :: CK1NOLASTWD CK&DISPATCH0 BINT3 :: foo ; ; - Wolfgang ==== You can either use :: CK1NOLASTWD CK&DISPATCH1 ... ; or :: CK1NoBlame CK&DISPATCH1 ... ; The system remembers the last executed ROMPTR (aka XLIB) with error checking. The name of this ROMPTR appears in the error message. However if the program executed was not part of a library, the ROMPTR is essentially garbage, so you have the two choices above. CK1NOLASTWD will just leave the last rom word untouched, while CK1NoBlame actually clears it. -- If you cannot convince them, confuse them. -- Harry S. Truman ==== The CK1&Dispatch command should only be used for LIBRARY commands. See the previous posts by Wolfgang/ for solution. Caspar ==== [...] more than just a variable name) on the left of the = sign. | is not SUBST! May I remind you that commands in library 256 are 'hacker tools', and may be used to create invalid objects, though in some cases like this one, the object is handled correctly by the system to a certain degree... That's just luck. | is not supposed to accept anything but a symbol as 2nd argument, and the editors try to enforce this rule. Yes, it is potentially dangerous to go around these rules, always backup your memory before using lib256 programs! Solutions: - Use SUBST instead. Yep, it doesn't look as good on the stack. - Extend | to accept any expression. This seems very unlikely to happen... - Remove library 256 to avoid these discussions :-) Gerald. ==== Right! I can't consider lib 256 to be a pure hacker's tool library, since the usage of its commands is simple, straight forward and also very very useful for doing mathematics and solving more problems than the HP49G can solve out of the box. To a certain degree you say? That would mean that the system would error out or even crash under certain circumstances when using for example 'A(n)+2|(A(n)=10)'. But I couldn't find a single case of such behavior. Is there any dangerous case? If so, then when? Luck is with the daring. Anyway, luck or not luck, for me it is secret priviledges for the insiders, while it seems to be possible for any normal user to use them safely. Is there any clear distiction Somehow reminds me of governments, which declare so many things You might want to take a look at the marathons and see how often many of the commands of lib 256 are used for solving math problems. I can't see anything exotic or beyond every day life on these commands. Besides, I don't need lib 256 to blow my HP49G. Allowed actions can do that also. And this is an additional reason for using all I can get. If normal actions can already nuke the HP49G, then why shouldn't I use the commands of lib 256 just like any other command? Destructive events will happen one way or the other, so what's the difference? Not only lookings. | with stack syntax allows making multiple substitutions at once and independendly of each other. Try 'X+Y' { X Y Y 1 } | and see what you get: Y+1. X is substituted by Y, but then this Y is *not* re-substituted by 1, while the Y which was in the algebraic object right from the start *is* substituted by 1. SUBST on the other hand can do only one substitution at a time. Even using 'X+Y' { X=Y Y=1 } 1 DOSUBS is not the same as it returns 1+1 because any Y in the result of the first substitution will be re-substituted with 1. It is a real pity that each command is strategically crippled so that you can do this but not that with the one command, and can do that but not this with the other. Unfortunately. Noooo, please no! How else will we be able to check if there is a +, or a SIN, or if all arguments of all trigonometric functions in an Ne Parcas Nec Spernas! , . ==== So, what is the difference between | and SUBST? Why two different commands? . ==== The symbol | is used since more than 100 years in mathematics as follows t(x)|x=0 is to mean the value of the function defined by the algebraic term t(x) which may depend also on other variables. Thus, left to =, only a variable is allowed. On the other hand, SUBST computes the result of substituting a subterm in term by another term. Strange that a sense even misleading) marathons doesn't know this. - Wolfgang ==== Try 'X+Y' [X=Y' 'Y=1'] SUBST and get 'Y+1' ==== OK, but why not combine them if their areas of application overlap? (Results from these systems have to be interpreted anyway...) What's annoying or misleading about the marathons? That's he's doing all this work for a dead calculator? -- ==== not yet finished draft. Where did you get it from? The operation WHERE (|) is commented very clear in time at present to comment them but I'll do that probably in the next semester pause. ==== , . ==== I am very glad that you had the grace to inform me about the meaning of |. Or else I would still swimm in the dark waters of my own unawareness. Or, spoken in straight forward language: Was Du nicht sagst! On the other hand, I of course *have* to forget about possible constructs like for example t(y(x)|x=0) which sometimes have to be written as t(y(x))|y(x)=y(0), just because my beloved imperator Wolfgang wants me to do so. The informative answers were those of Virgil and of the professor. (And no, Wolfgang, I don't mean you.) I suppose the professor somehow missed the thread and so I quote him here: What goes to Wolfgang is another story. ;-) Oh, and by the way, all people who found the marathons thoughts and wishes, which are all considered without a single exception. Would you join the crew, Wolfgang? Oh no, imperators never join crews! ;-) , . ==== Because else Wolfgang couldn't tell me what | means. And that would be a terrible sin! ;-) Dead? Oh no! It is perhaps un-dead, zombie, twisted existence, what else you want it to be, but not dead. Yesterday I heard it breathing heavily, haaaaahhh-hhshhhsshh, haaaaahhh-hhshhhsshh, it lives! ;-) But seriously, , dead or not dead, there are too many nice guys (and girls??) out there who do live and use it (or try to ;-)). That's the reason for the marathons. , . ==== agony awaiting Your comments, which will be immediately put in the golden box of wisdom. What will happen to that box has to do with TNT and Trabakoulas, but this will be a nice secret source for jokes for the future marathons. (Has anybody seen Zorbas? Greeks and their sence of humor! ;-) In deepest (un)respect, . ==== Another side effect of this group, a version update reminder? ;-) , . ==== I used the sum 'GS(Y=1,10,GS(X=1,10,X^3*Y^3+X^2*Y^2+X*Y))' OK, R STOVX OK, 45. 'X' STO OK, 45 'X' STO I purge X and do the same again: I compare and stand astonished. , . ==== I glad to know it wasn't just ME....I was beginning to think I couldn't enter a simple expression correctly.... Roger ==== LOL! ==== Guess what? Me too! Fortunately John found out that we entered it right but our flag -111 was wrong. Errrh, I mean right.., I mean..... , . ==== Check out www.ebay.com. They usually have lots of them from 30 to 60 some dollars. Good luck Rick ==== Freedom is (also) the acceptance of some limitations. In other words, try to fly without an airplane ;-) , . ==== give up Agreed. The question is how many limitations will we accept. Birds do it. Barry ==== There are limits on the duration of copyright. Disney and others are permanently lobbying for the duration to be extended (is it 90 years or something in the USA now?) A bientot Paul -- Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth) What happens if you have lead in your pants as well as lead in your pencil? ==== JYA is still right : do you know of software old enough to have fallen into public domain ? :-) Gerard ==== If you're the copyright owner of the material, you may publish a CD-R with it on Ebay. This is the only case where it is allowed. ==== Ah, but old age is not the only way for things to go into the public domain. An author can immediately state Public Domain instead of a copyright, or at some later date relinquish his copyright and move the work into the public domain. There are many such cases, such as all the awesome 3D engines used by the design team of Tomb Raider (the Lara Croft video game). They released all their game-creation tools to the public domain, because they have written a better set and don't use the old tools any more. They *could* have defended their copyright for many more years, but they can't now, since they relinquished it. Once relinquished, it's gone. Wanna write your own Lara Croft game? You can, and it's perfectly legal now, although you might have to rename her Lara Bush or some other non-trademarked name. ;-) -Joe- ==== I recently saw one of my friends studyinng for his history exam, on his TI-83+ silver edition! He downloaded a program were he could type questions on his computer and turn them into virtual study cards. Questions would be on one side and there was a flip command where the answers were on the other side. There was also a key for changing the cards. I was wondering if there was any such program for the 49G and how to make these cards. Thanxs in Advance, CID ==== Has anyone written a full catalog replacement that has help for all calculator commands? Or a way of appending help on to the existing commands that don't have help associated with them? ==== are integrated in the CATalog and whether these commands have a HELP option depends solely on the library's author who has the possibility of providing HELPs since ROM 19-6. Only very few 49-libraries make use of this possibility although the library creator in OT49 allows doing it even in UsrRPL. To provide a 1-page HELP text for every builtin command on the HP49 would cost probably 500 Kbytes, too much for our little baby :-) Thus, it is unlikely that a tool you wish will ever exist. - Wolfgang ==== Thanxs to everyone!! Everything worked out good. Jackie CHan: Hough ha!! (more kung fu kicking) Drunken boxing is the best! (I always use RPN its a lot faster than Algebraic) Thanxs again!!!!! Cid aka Drunken Master ==== Of course it did, our Kung Fu is the best ;-) Ouch, hicks! You hit my nose, hicks! You're very welcome. , hicks! . BTW, perhaps Jackie will never do the breathtaking stunts any more. He is injured so many times that more injuries could put him on the rollchair for ever. Let's hope that everything will go OK. BTWII, did you know that he is one of us? Take a look at http://www.jackiechankids.com/files/Jackie_Jedi_Contest.htm Especially http://www.jackiechankids.com/images/jcyoda.jpeg ;-) ==== , http://www.magpage.com/~jakes/1998/hhc98/saturday/pict0067.jpg The book held by Tanya Brooks is the third edition of Wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz' A Guide to HP Handheld Calculators and Computers. The calc on the cover is the first version of the HP-35. HPCC #1046 ==== HAHAHA! Hey , That Yoda one was great! (frosted flakes) A Anyways I was wondering how u could get the 49G to solve a inequality like this 4<2x-4<8 without entering each one (first 4<2x-4 and then 2x-4<8) Cid -Use the force (I really hope that Jackie can still do his stunts!!!) ==== ==== I don't know opf any built-in method. In the EQW you can enter 4<2x-4<8 but then you can't solve for x. Perhaps you could enter 4<2x-4<8 and then use the program: << << IF { < } OVER POS THEN DROP ELSE EVAL END DOSUBS 2 DOSUBS X SOLVE But this is not a general purpose program, as it will only work for a