B19 ==== > the extra functionality of the 49 is worth the slight speed drop > due to the processing and handling of the extra types. Although the example I'm about to cite is atypical, here is a case where an old HP48 [S/G] command takes *15*times* as long to execute on the 49G (and so does a program of mine which needs to use that command): http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=2953da04.0201290432.23a461f8%40posti Why was that old 48[S/G] command even altered at all (it is incompatible on the 49G with the way it worked on the 48S/48G, when the new 49G CAS SOLVE command replaces it completely in the CAS? So that's why my old 48[S/G] triangle solver program isn't 49G certified (and never will be :) http://www.mum.edu . ==== reporting that a friend's web site was entirely invisible on the google system (was not listed at all) despite being happily picked up by many others, including msn, hotbot, lycos, web crawler, excite... I told them that I'd had the site checked out by experienced programmers who confirmed it has all the necessary keywords, correct source coding, etc and that the fault is probably with google's procedures. again on Aug 6 (3 months later!) to get another automated response [#721242] and here we are today, another month on with still no response despite many reminders in between. Maybe google is working so hard on the problem of this invisible site that it is just too busy to reply. Or maybe google are just a bunch of hippie chancers who don't give two flying fucks about the people who use their system. ==== > was entirely invisible on the google system (was not listed at all) > despite being happily picked up by many others, including msn, > hotbot, lycos, web crawler, excite... > I told them that I'd had the site checked out by experienced > programmers who confirmed it has all the necessary keywords, > correct source coding, etc and that the fault > is probably with google's procedures. None of the above matters to Google; that's essentially what makes Google different (and usually more valuable for the seeker of information). Here is what matters; also note what B2 says: http://www.google.com/webmasters/1.html http://www.google.com/webmasters/1.html#B2 <=== http://www.google.com/webmasters/2.html http://www.google.com/webmasters/4.html http://www.google.com/webmasters/dos.html <=== Other venues for feedback to Google: http://www.google.com/contact/index.html http://www.google.com/quality_form And, of course, you have also pursued the following already, where you posted the same complaint, but no one supplied the direct links above, which you could have found for yourself. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=google.public.support.general Good luck. . ==== Not through this newsgroup :) An interesting thing about our written communications, however, is that we can even see and feel the expression of frustration and the shouting response that is conveyed by the all-caps subject, as well as its phrasing, and I'd like to address that. During the development of the Google Groups system, through which you have posted, I sent several suggestions and surprisingly, I usually got a personal response; all the particular things that I suggested have also eventually been implemented in Google's current system, although this may be the result of the very same suggestions having been made by very many people, or to have been obvious to Google's developers anyway (or sometimes not, who knows?) There was also once a time when Google cut off our access to all search queries, returning instead a terms of service notice; at first, I thought that perhaps Google was turning into a paid-only service rather quickly, reply explaining what had led them to think that our IP address was hosting a robot, forwarding another search engine's automated queries through Google, and also explaining how to test what IP address Google thinks we are at. I replied to them that our IP address was actually the ISP's cache server address, the same for the entire geographical area which that ISP covers, that we were not likely responsible for the kind of queries they had monitored, and that by blocking this one IP address, they were also hiding themselves from a large population all over southeast Iowa; I also gave them a contact at the ISP, and very shortly thereafter, Google removed the blocks. I do not know what contact address(es) Google now maintains, nor who, if anyone, now reads what is probably a vastly larger like anyone, they might respond more to cordiality than to cursing. The only comparable site where I had ever before found so much staff who always personally replied -- perhaps that's why they folded :) [and were bought by Google, which is the good fortune that has preserved the ability to now access 20 years of postings archives, I can sympathize with what happens when a company does and find that the general public is often just the sort of unappreciative bleep-heads that you accuse Google of being, in which case it is not surprising that they might want to better insulate themselves from having to directly talk to anyone, for reasons more than merely economic. The general quality of life arises from all the interactions between all the individual people, and the quality of all those interactions arises in turn from the consciousness of that same society of individual people, which together forms a collective consciousness of the society. That collective consciousness can be influenced, at a very deep level, by human beings who deeply experience the total field of consciousness within themselves, but every individual person in society can also do his or her part in being the sort of person you would yourself like other people to be to you, as much as you can. Project more appreciation and good to others; it is never wasted. Even if you never get a reply, your own calmness and positive attitude will still directly benefit you, yourself, because the quality of our own self-interaction is a major part of our own well-being. ---------------------------------------- With best wishes from http://www.mum.edu . ==== I have rarely read such complacent blather and indolent psychobabble in a supposedly serious newsgroup. You are obviously a dunce who judging from your prose style has read too many corporate handouts, PR mantras & celebrity biographies. You are therefore scared of a) shouting and b) thinking. Maybe your lickass brown nosing strategy will get you brownie (nose) points from the corporate hippies at google who may even give you a new job as ball boy #40043 on their virtual tennis court. More likely you will fret and puff your life away in some dingy academic office festooned with timetables and blotchy snapshots of students. Meanwhile, consider the style of google automated responses: keep on googlin' Indeed - I mean, why don't we also all just OD on Disney Warner Google acid and just die slowly & surely in the Disney Google Warner desert sands with our pricks up a stiffie Warner Disney Google Deadhead's ass while mouthing dimly remembered words to a Pink Floyd track... Meanwhile, these businessmen have not replied to a simple and legitimate question. And who - except you, cares about how many questions such pretentious millionaires get? And who cares about high stepping along the tripwire of decorum you have strung to protect your fragile ego from people like me? > That collective consciousness can be influenced, > at a very deep level, There are no levels at all, please try to understand this. Your brain has been addled by psychoanalytic-Romantic fantasies about levels only surfaces, only your words. Nothing else. Scary, huh? >by human beings who deeply experience Now you are sounding like a Christmas card... > the total field of consciousness within themselves, Totality went out with Hegel, grow up! > but every individual person in society Cliches, or what? >can also do > his or her part in being the sort of person you would yourself > like other people to be to you, as much as you can. Amen, spit and polish, lick the floors clean, & let's just DANCE the night away, yeah yeah yeah... Project more appreciation and good to others; >it is never wasted. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? > Even if you never get a reply, your own calmness and positive attitude > will still directly benefit you, yourself, because the quality of > our own self-interaction is a major part of our own well-being. > You are definitely insane. > An interesting thing about our written communications, however, > is that we can even see and feel the expression of frustration > and the shouting response that is conveyed by the all-caps subject, > as well as its phrasing, and I'd like to address that. > Meanwhile, we will NOT address the bizarre contortions, cute prose rythms, and the abjectness that goes into being you... ==== Fred [sounded off like a braying animal, which is probably why he commands so much respect in professional circles] The Coming of Wisdom with Time Though leaves are many, the root is one; Through all the lying days of my youth I swayed my leaves and flowers in the sun; Now I may wither into the truth. http://www.lit.kobe-u.ac.jp/~hishika/yeats.htm http://www.bartleby.com/people/Yeats-Wi.html http://www.nobel.se/literature/laureates/1923/ Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexations to the spirit. http://colleenscorner.com/Poetry3.html I do not know what I may appear to the world; but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me. Just as small mistakes in programming may incapacitate the operation of a computer or calculator, small mistranslations or misunderstandings can bury the knowledge which could otherwise be inherited by us from the long trail of human wisdom, e.g.: Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth The general error is to reverse cause and effect in the above. You do not achieve what you desire by suppressing yourself, but when you are really on the right track with what you are doing, it communicates itself effectively to others, and you can organize the means to accomplish things without floundering in your own chaos, or trying to compensate with bluster. The greater the quality of leadership, the less screaming or violence of any kind is required to have the same influence, and that is how a quiet man like Gandhi, with weapons only of his own spirit, finally sent an armed and vicious colonial power packing; he did not appear to be winning at every step of his path, but what he did resonated with and unified an entire nation, and even an entire world was influenced. A bullet from a lone assassin's gun can silence the one leader, but can not halt the progress of all humanity, which it was his gift to recognize and be an agent for. Muhammad, Moses, Buddha, Christ -- there is no fundamental difference in what they all recognized, experienced, and taught, although subsequent interpreters can lose all sense of it, if they do not have the same quality of their own consciousness and consequent experience to keep them on the right track. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [John 1:1] Beauty, old yet ever new, eternal voice and inward word During this period of his life Muhammad traveled widely. Then, in his forties he began to retire to meditate Muhammad recited the words of what are now the first five verses of the 96th surah or chapter of the Quran, words which proclaim God the Creator of man and the Source of all knowledge. They all do the same -- they meditate, they experience the totality of all consciousness within themselves, then they come out to teach it. If their disciples follow the same steps, including the critical step of also experiencing the source of pure consciousness within themselves, then they continue to embody the same original knowledge and pass it down; if they neglect to have the personal experience, however, then they drift off into distortion, and their descendants turn ever more violent, trying to compensate for the living effectiveness which they lost. That's a brief history of humanity, in a couple of paragraphs. If you want to put down mankind's spiritual history, however, at least do it with some humor and style: http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/meek.html A teacher affects eternity; he can never tell where his influence stops. http://www.mum.edu ==== Go placidly amid the noise and haste, > and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible, without surrender, > be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, > even the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexations to the spirit. apropos): Go placidly amid the noise and waste. and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof. Avoid quiet and passive persons unless you are in need of sleep. [..] Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment, and despite the changing fortunes of time, there is always a big future in computer maintenance. ==== [shit removed] I would surely prefer to read John H. Meyer posts rather than yours. Have you ever published anything of interest in this newsgroup? Not that I can remember. John has been posting here for as far as I can remember and is a valued member of this community. So keep your flaming away. ==== > Not through this newsgroup :) > An interesting thing about our written communications, however, > is that we can even see and feel the expression of frustration > and the shouting response that is conveyed by the all-caps subject, > as well as its phrasing, and I'd like to address that. Well (though it is terribly offtopic). How many requests do you expect that google get a day to `please list our website'. I'd vote for thousands. How many do you think are legitimate? Are *any* legitimate? In particular, for the person who is complaining here (why here?), if the web site isn't in whatever google's root set is (and they aren't very likely to put it in the root set for you, and if no-one links to it, then as I understand google's algorithm it's not going to show up. And that's *right*: google works by links to a site, so if you want to get them to list it, you need to get people to link to it, not complain at google, who are just doing their job as a search engine. --tim ==== >... [Fred shows his anger about a website not found by google] ... The website is hosted on a HP48? Holger ==== > The website is hosted on a HP48? No no. *Google* runs on a large farm of HP48s. They've been trying to port to HP49s (in fact, Google largely funded the HP49 effort at HP), but the extreme load causes the keycaps to flake off and the screens to go a funny colour. Only HP48s will do for this environment. I regret to say that they are now considering a port to some TI abomination, although I've been hearing recent rumours that they are also considering the 32SII. --tim ==== > No no. *Google* runs on a large farm of HP48s. They've been trying > to port to HP49s (in fact, Google largely funded the HP49 effort at > HP), but the extreme load causes the keycaps to flake off and the > screens to go a funny colour. Only HP48s will do for this > environment. Unfortunately, the HP 48 keys aren't really designed to be pecked by pigeons. Hoewver, they do withstand pecking much better than the HP 49G keys. ==== Tim Bradshaw schrieb im Newsbeitrag > ... although I've been hearing recent rumours that > they are also considering the 32SII. That explains why the 32SII is no longer sold. Whith only 384 bytes of memory Google will need HPs complete production of them. Supposingly it is a special model with network capabilities. I hope they'll show up on ebay some day! Wouldn't it be a good idea to make another farm with 12Cs for business websites? Holger ==== > I hate games on a business computer and I always > remove them from my employers Windows system > with one exception: Eiffel Oy bought me a Philips Velo > (I asked for a HP 320) and the Solitaire was in ROM ! You poor guy! Greek laws made a criminal out of you ;-) > I'm glad that I'm not in any country with stupid laws > possessing my current HP Jornada 720 > (which also comes with Solitaire in ROM) > OR > with a HP 48GX with a MINEHUNT in ROM.... > BUT Oh no! I also have the 48GX. And the 49G with its tetris. What am I gonna do? Help! I'm scared to death ;-) > I guess I would be safe if I don't play it publicly > ;-) Perhaps they already wired each and every house and they are watching us, while we play? Let me see. What's that under the phone? Oh no, a micro camera and a transmitter. They caught me! ;-) > Wanna bet on which one of us is the better in > Solitaire/MINEHUNT, Nick ?? Hahaha! I don't have half a chance. I play so incompatible that the programs crash. But let's go for a competition. How can we do that? And how can many many others participate? And of course, you let me win and I send the (signed) tetris diploma to every politician in Greece along with many greekkings, this time I hope from everyone out there. > PS: The Greeks are incompatible even with Greeks ;-) Now you understood us. That's why we have 10 millions Greeks and 20 millions political parties in Greece. Phenomenon also know as political inflation or, as Harry Klinn, a greek comedian said: How comes that so few people, in such a small country, in such a short time, have managed to do so big stupidities? Each Greek seems to be most incompatible with his/herself, though the degree of incompatibility to anything else except the own self is already in unbelievable high degrees. (Trabakoulas does math, in order to forget about the steady contradiction with anything.) ;-) > http://news.com.com/2100-1040-956357.html?tag=fd_top The Greek government has banned all electronic games across the > country, including those that run on home computers, on Game Boy-style > portable consoles, and on mobile phones. Thousands of tourists in > Greece are unknowingly facing heavy fines or long terms in prison for > owning mobile phones or portable video games. club is here to stay. Gamings, Nick. P.S: Come on people, play more! Let the machines fume and smoke! ==== > I hate games on a business computer and I always > remove them from my employers Windows system > with one exception: Eiffel Oy bought me a Philips Velo > (I asked for a HP 320) and the Solitaire was in ROM ! You poor guy! Greek laws made a criminal out of you ;-) Are the new greek laws in accordance with European laws? I bet one could argue something like that at a European court -- This message was written with 100% recycled electrons Pivo ==== >... >Are the new greek laws in accordance with >European laws? I bet one could argue something >like that at a European court >... That's exactly the point I have discussed with a colleague yesterday. integrated in its firmware. So, many mobile phone manufacturers are handicapped with Greece, since they either can't sell anymore their phones, or they are forced to rewrite the firmware especially for Greece. Sooner or later some European Court will outlaw this law fur sure. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralf Fritzsch Bundesanstalt fuer Wasserbau Federal Waterways Engineering and Research Dienststelle Kueste Institute - Department Hamburg ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ==== >... >Are the new greek laws in accordance with >European laws? I bet one could argue something >like that at a European court >... That's exactly the point I have discussed with a colleague yesterday. > integrated in its firmware. So, many mobile phone manufacturers are > handicapped with Greece, since they either can't sell anymore their > phones, or they are forced to rewrite the firmware especially for Greece. Sooner or later some European Court will outlaw this law fur sure. If you knew how many such laws exist in Greece that should have been outlawed since decades, you wouldn't be so optimistic. But, anyway thanks for your optimism, it encourages me that perhaps some time in the future we, Greeks, will have modern laws. Greetings, err still gamings, Nick. ==== hitted the submit key twice. (Wrath!!!) > http://news.com.com/2100-1040-956357.html?tag=fd_top The Greek government has banned all electronic games across the > country, including those that run on home computers, on Game Boy-style > portable consoles, and on mobile phones. Thousands of tourists in > Greece are unknowingly facing heavy fines or long terms in prison for > owning mobile phones or portable video games. I don't know if I should lough or cry...I'll do both. First the cry with wrath against the idiots called politicians in Greece. The word you in the following paragraphs is directly aimed to those idiots. - You, the higher ups politicians in Greece who continue ignoring human rights, decided to protect people by banning computer games this time, instead of banning the misery in education and corruption. Perhaps because the latter would mean that you would bann yourselfs. One could have understanding if you have decided banning games that deal with violence and killing, though this would be also very short sighted, because the reasons for playing such games are burried much much deeper than the surface that you, the ignorants, just scratch. Remember, when you decide against the will of people next time, you were (unfortunately) born in Greece, the land where direct democracy was also born. No Greek, including you the idiots, has the right to put such a dirt on the only things that we, greeks, have to rely on and be proud of. We don't possess the millions that you have eaten up in your political carrier, we don't have the luxury that you live in, thieving and lying all your lives. The only thing that we have is the knowledge of what Greece has given to the world. Exactly those ideals that you shamelessly f**cked up beyond recognition. In addition: Der Mensch spielt nur, wo er in voller Bedeutung des Wortes Mensch ist, und er ist nur da ganz Mensch, wo er spielt. ---------Friedrich von Schiller Trans: A human plays only there, where he/she is human in the whole sence of the word. And he/she is only there totally human, where he/she plays. You politicians ignored one more time the political/historical present that was given to the world by the Greeks without ever asking anything to return. But not only this. You also ignored the just this being human in the whole sence of the word. And you did this in a place where the dream of life was dreamed in one of its most beautiful version. Still in addition: -Playing computer games results in programming better ones, and to program better games is one of the things that push inovation to higher degrees. Only ignorants would want to prevent the people from thinking about new algorithms and new methods for programming. You, the ignorants who live permanently outside any development in our world, want to prevent inovation and thinking? Go on, you are not going to change anything for the better. Still, still in addition: -When next summer the number of tourists in Greece goes towards 0, you'll have to change your law again. Or have a small revolution of all people who earn for living from tourism. And greek revolutions are *not* that peaceful at all. ;-) And now the lough with sarcasm taken to the endth degree. You means again the political idiots in Greece. - You so called politicians in Greece, have totally lost the contact to your own people and the contact to everyday life. Do you really think that forbidding games will prevent anybody, especially the youngsters, playing games? Didn't you idiots notice that ignoring a Greek, just has the result of having him ignoring you ten times more? Do you want to have one more law that nobody cares about? Din't you notice that kids go their own ways, and if you push too hard, they do things they wouldn't do otherwise? Do you really think that anybody in Greece would just take that command of yours and act accordingly only because you can stand a couple of steps higher and shout about your political efforts? Hunderds of years in slavery were not enough to let the wish of Greeks for freedom vanish. Do you think that you are going to manage doing that in a few days? If you do, and it seems like you do, then you're going to get very very very bad news. We have withstanded much harder situations. We only have a tired smile for you, the wannabe patriarchs. You *will* dance to our rhythm, sooner or later. > club is here to stay. You bet it is. I never programmed games for the calcs but now perhaps I'll do and I'll send them to any friend in Greece that has an HP. Mwahahahahaaa, they want criminals? They're gonna get them! Gamings, Nick. P.S: Es ist, als ob unsere Zivilisation den Anblick des Spielenden nicht mehr ertragen k.9anne, weil sie in seinem zweckfreien Tun eine Form der Freiheit wittert, die ihr Konzept st.9art. -----Friedrich Sieburg Trans: It is as if our civilization can no more stand the sight of a playing human, because this civilization smells a form of freedom in the purposeless doing of a game, that disturbs the very concepts of the civilization. ==== > I don't know if I should lough or cry...I'll do both. he, he. i'll join you. > First the cry with wrath against the idiots called politicians in > Greece. The word you in the following paragraphs is directly aimed > to those idiots. wherever you go, you find more or less the same. sometimes (like here) they get away with stuff like this (but not for too long). > - You, the higher ups politicians in Greece who continue ignoring > human rights, decided to protect people by banning computer games this > time, instead of banning the misery in education and corruption. > Perhaps because the latter would mean that you would bann yourselfs. > One could have understanding if you have decided banning games that > deal with violence and killing, though this would be also very short > sighted, because the reasons for playing such games are burried much > much deeper than the surface that you, the ignorants, just scratch. > Remember, when you decide against the will of people next time, you > were (unfortunately) born in Greece, the land where direct democracy > was also born. No Greek, including you the idiots, has the right to > put such a dirt on the only things that we, greeks, have to rely on > and be proud of. We don't possess the millions that you have eaten up > in your political carrier, we don't have the luxury that you live in, > thieving and lying all your lives. The only thing that we have is the > knowledge of what Greece has given to the world. Exactly those ideals > that you shamelessly f**cked up beyond recognition. In addition: > Der Mensch spielt nur, wo er in voller Bedeutung des Wortes Mensch > ist, und er ist nur da ganz Mensch, wo er spielt. > ---------Friedrich von Schiller > Trans: A human plays only there, where he/she is human in the whole > sence of the word. And he/she is only there totally human, where > he/she plays. > You politicians ignored one more time the political/historical present > that was given to the world by the Greeks without ever asking anything > to return. But not only this. You also ignored the just this being > human in the whole sence of the word. And you did this in a place > where the dream of life was dreamed in one of its most beautiful > version. Still in addition: > -Playing computer games results in programming better ones, and to > program better games is one of the things that push inovation to > higher degrees. Only ignorants would want to prevent the people from > thinking about new algorithms and new methods for programming. You, > the ignorants who live permanently outside any development in our > world, want to prevent inovation and thinking? Go on, you are not > going to change anything for the better. Still, still in addition: > -When next summer the number of tourists in Greece goes towards 0, > you'll have to change your law again. Or have a small revolution of > all people who earn for living from tourism. And greek revolutions are > *not* that peaceful at all. ;-) > And now the lough with sarcasm taken to the endth degree. You means > again the political idiots in Greece. - You so called politicians in Greece, have totally lost the contact > to your own people and the contact to everyday life. Do you really > think that forbidding games will prevent anybody, especially the > youngsters, playing games? Didn't you idiots notice that ignoring a > Greek, just has the result of having him ignoring you ten times more? > Do you want to have one more law that nobody cares about? Din't you > notice that kids go their own ways, and if you push too hard, they do > things they wouldn't do otherwise? Do you really think that anybody in > Greece would just take that command of yours and act accordingly only > because you can stand a couple of steps higher and shout about your > political efforts? Hunderds of years in slavery were not enough to > let the wish of Greeks for freedom vanish. Do you think that you are > going to manage doing that in a few days? If you do, and it seems like > you do, then you're going to get very very very bad news. We have > withstanded much harder situations. We only have a tired smile for > you, the wannabe patriarchs. You *will* dance to our rhythm, sooner or > later. club is here to stay. You bet it is. I never programmed games for the calcs but now perhaps > I'll do and I'll send them to any friend in Greece that has an HP. > Mwahahahahaaa, they want criminals? They're gonna get them! the NK revenge! ( add me too the team ) hey. one Greek student could make a security program in the HP49G so that only he could access the file system and the games (with password) :) if they get the HP49G, just play dummy (or make stealh games that do not show up on file system). if the Greek gov wants to find out they would have to post a message here to try to figure it out he, he. he could load it to hpcalc as a historical program (the 2002 Greek revolution). > Gamings, > Nick. P.S: > Es ist, als ob unsere Zivilisation den Anblick des Spielenden nicht > mehr ertragen k.9anne, weil sie in seinem zweckfreien Tun eine Form der > Freiheit wittert, die ihr Konzept st.9art. -----Friedrich Sieburg Trans: It is as if our civilization can no more stand the sight of a > playing human, because this civilization smells a form of freedom in > the purposeless doing of a game, that disturbs the very concepts of > the civilization. Greekings. ==== I don't know if I should lough or cry...I'll do both. he, he. i'll join you. > First the cry with wrath against the idiots called politicians in > Greece. The word you in the following paragraphs is directly aimed > to those idiots. wherever you go, you find more or less the same. sometimes (like here) > they get away with stuff like this (but not for too long). > But Newsweek has already rated it to be even dirter than the Belousconi-Government. I mean, can you imagine what could be even dirtier? I thought that he and his team were the top of all possible corruption, as they have all power in their hands. (They even sell out old Roman culture.) But no! The Greek government proved me wrong. It is possible to be even more corrupted. How much corruption is necessary to outperfome Belousconi? For heaven's sake! > club is here to stay. You bet it is. I never programmed games for the calcs but now perhaps > I'll do and I'll send them to any friend in Greece that has an HP. > Mwahahahahaaa, they want criminals? They're gonna get them! the NK revenge! ( add me too the team ) OK! The highly explosive kernel of the team has just taken form. :-) > hey. one Greek student could make a security program in the HP49G so > that only he could access the file system and the games (with > password) :) Yes, but a password with greek letters. Or perhaps chinese? ;-) >if they get the HP49G, just play dummy (or make stealh > games that do not show up on file system). if the Greek gov wants to > find out they would have to post a message here to try to figure it > out he, he. he could load it to hpcalc as a historical program (the > 2002 Greek revolution). Yeah, and then make a program that detects the presence of greek gov members and sends the Trabakoulas-Virus to their calcs. For those about to play, I salute you, Nick. ==== I think you might have missed the point. Grece has a huge problem with gambeling and money machines (ie: these casino electronic games stuff), and they declared that 1: they are not able to distinguish between video game and gambeling games and 2) that peoples are using normal video games for gambeling purposes... This is why they descided to ban every game... a little like the prohibition in the US, because peoples could get drunk with any type of alcohol, they even banned wine! how shamefull! > hitted the submit key twice. (Wrath!!!) http://news.com.com/2100-1040-956357.html?tag=fd_top The Greek government has banned all electronic games across the > country, including those that run on home computers, on Game Boy-style > portable consoles, and on mobile phones. Thousands of tourists in > Greece are unknowingly facing heavy fines or long terms in prison for > owning mobile phones or portable video games. I don't know if I should lough or cry...I'll do both. First the cry with wrath against the idiots called politicians in > Greece. The word you in the following paragraphs is directly aimed > to those idiots. - You, the higher ups politicians in Greece who continue ignoring > human rights, decided to protect people by banning computer games this > time, instead of banning the misery in education and corruption. > Perhaps because the latter would mean that you would bann yourselfs. > One could have understanding if you have decided banning games that > deal with violence and killing, though this would be also very short > sighted, because the reasons for playing such games are burried much > much deeper than the surface that you, the ignorants, just scratch. > Remember, when you decide against the will of people next time, you > were (unfortunately) born in Greece, the land where direct democracy > was also born. No Greek, including you the idiots, has the right to > put such a dirt on the only things that we, greeks, have to rely on > and be proud of. We don't possess the millions that you have eaten up > in your political carrier, we don't have the luxury that you live in, > thieving and lying all your lives. The only thing that we have is the > knowledge of what Greece has given to the world. Exactly those ideals > that you shamelessly f**cked up beyond recognition. In addition: > Der Mensch spielt nur, wo er in voller Bedeutung des Wortes Mensch > ist, und er ist nur da ganz Mensch, wo er spielt. > ---------Friedrich von Schiller > Trans: A human plays only there, where he/she is human in the whole > sence of the word. And he/she is only there totally human, where > he/she plays. > You politicians ignored one more time the political/historical present > that was given to the world by the Greeks without ever asking anything > to return. But not only this. You also ignored the just this being > human in the whole sence of the word. And you did this in a place > where the dream of life was dreamed in one of its most beautiful > version. Still in addition: > -Playing computer games results in programming better ones, and to > program better games is one of the things that push inovation to > higher degrees. Only ignorants would want to prevent the people from > thinking about new algorithms and new methods for programming. You, > the ignorants who live permanently outside any development in our > world, want to prevent inovation and thinking? Go on, you are not > going to change anything for the better. Still, still in addition: > -When next summer the number of tourists in Greece goes towards 0, > you'll have to change your law again. Or have a small revolution of > all people who earn for living from tourism. And greek revolutions are > *not* that peaceful at all. ;-) > And now the lough with sarcasm taken to the endth degree. You means > again the political idiots in Greece. - You so called politicians in Greece, have totally lost the contact > to your own people and the contact to everyday life. Do you really > think that forbidding games will prevent anybody, especially the > youngsters, playing games? Didn't you idiots notice that ignoring a > Greek, just has the result of having him ignoring you ten times more? > Do you want to have one more law that nobody cares about? Din't you > notice that kids go their own ways, and if you push too hard, they do > things they wouldn't do otherwise? Do you really think that anybody in > Greece would just take that command of yours and act accordingly only > because you can stand a couple of steps higher and shout about your > political efforts? Hunderds of years in slavery were not enough to > let the wish of Greeks for freedom vanish. Do you think that you are > going to manage doing that in a few days? If you do, and it seems like > you do, then you're going to get very very very bad news. We have > withstanded much harder situations. We only have a tired smile for > you, the wannabe patriarchs. You *will* dance to our rhythm, sooner or > later. club is here to stay. You bet it is. I never programmed games for the calcs but now perhaps > I'll do and I'll send them to any friend in Greece that has an HP. > Mwahahahahaaa, they want criminals? They're gonna get them! Gamings, > Nick. P.S: > Es ist, als ob unsere Zivilisation den Anblick des Spielenden nicht > mehr ertragen k.9anne, weil sie in seinem zweckfreien Tun eine Form der > Freiheit wittert, die ihr Konzept st.9art. -----Friedrich Sieburg Trans: It is as if our civilization can no more stand the sight of a > playing human, because this civilization smells a form of freedom in > the purposeless doing of a game, that disturbs the very concepts of > the civilization. ==== I think you might have missed the point. Grece has a huge problem with > gambeling and money machines (ie: these casino electronic games stuff), and > they declared that 1: they are not able to distinguish between video game > and gambeling games and 2) that peoples are using normal video games for > gambeling purposes... This is why they descided to ban every game... a > little like the prohibition in the US, because peoples could get drunk with > any type of alcohol, they even banned wine! how shamefull! and for the Greek Government. But, on the one hand even if the amount of money being spent for games is so huge, hey! It's *the people's* money. If they want, they'll should be able to throw that out of the window. And on the other hand, nobody in the government seems to care that an even bigger amount of money gets lost in the pockets of our politicians. And as you say, such prohibitions have always done exactly the opposite than that that was intended. Our politicians should have sufficient knowledge of history to know that. But what can you expect when the highest positions in Greek government are occupied by the least educated? Greetings, Nick. ==== > and for the Greek Government. But, on the one hand even if the amount > of money being spent for games is so huge, hey! It's *the people's* > money. If they want, they'll should be able to throw that out of the > window. Well, I have to disegree with that.. You have your normal gambelers, and these ones should be allow to keep doing so, but you have also the 'drugged' ones, the ones that can not stop, and they are throwing their familly money away, resulting in devastation of the familly, lake of education, food and all the rest, and you also have even worst cases of lost of responsability, a couple of years ago in australia, a women went for a 'quiky' and left out the one handed bandit a couple of hours later, handcuffed! she had just 'forgot' her 1 year old daughter to bake in the car with an outside temperature of over 40Á! and this should not be allowed! ==== and for the Greek Government. But, on the one hand even if the amount > of money being spent for games is so huge, hey! It's *the people's* > money. If they want, they'll should be able to throw that out of the > window. Well, I have to disegree with that.. Yeah, and that's good. Disagreement and discussion, the main reasons for creation of new things :-) > You have your normal gambelers, and these ones should be allow to keep doing > so, but you have also the 'drugged' ones, the ones that can not stop, and > they are throwing their familly money away, resulting in devastation of the > familly, lake of education, food and all the rest, and you also have even > worst cases of lost of responsability, a couple of years ago in australia, a > women went for a 'quiky' and left out the one handed bandit a couple of > hours later, handcuffed! she had just 'forgot' her 1 year old daughter to > bake in the car with an outside temperature of over 40Á! and this should not > be allowed! > But Cyrille, first of all, who decides what is a normal gabler? The government who still gambles with the lifes of millions of people? The common mind? The laws? In other words, who's gonna control the controllers? In addition: In your example the bad thing was not that that woman played. The bad thing was that she forgot her daughter. That's two different pairs of shoes. If she had only played, for hours for weeks, even for years, but without hurting anybody, except perhaps herself, then nobody on this world would have the right to say anything bad about her, any even less to punish her for the game. One could try in this hypothetical case to help her, driven by human sympathy but to punish her because she just lose her whole money in games, well, that's too much for me. Anyway, keep on disagreeing. Or esle we have all one opinion, and that will be (for me) the end of life. (You do your best to keep my alive, it seems ;-) Greetings, Nick. ==== http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2122118,00.html Ahhhh !!! The Greeks are indeed incompatible with Greeks! ==== > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2122118,00.html > Ahhhh !!! > The Greeks are indeed incompatible with Greeks! It would be easier to count what the Greeks are compatible with. The sequence of such things that Greeks are compatible to, breaks at n=0. ;-) A text passage from the above link: Nobody from the members of the parliament realised or could foresee the effects that this would have for PC games, Internet games and game consoles, simply because they are not familiar with that side of technology Now imagine what idiots are in our gov, when they didn't even realized what computer and communication technology means in our days. These ignorants have the fate of approx. 10 millions people in their hands. WAKE UP GREEK POLITICIANS, WE LIVE IN 2002!!!! Nick. ==== > they are throwing their familly money away, resulting in devastation of the > familly, lake of education, food and all the rest, and you also have even > worst cases of lost of responsability, a couple of years ago in australia, a > women went for a 'quiky' and left out the one handed bandit a couple of > hours later, handcuffed! she had just 'forgot' her 1 year old daughter to > bake in the car with an outside temperature of over 40Á! and this should not > be allowed! but this is not allowed already, why do you think she ended-up handcuffed ? You have to stop thinking that the government should act as the ultimate authority and the father of all, showing the guidance to its people. There are limits that must be followed. If you always assume that what the government is doing is for your own good and that you should follow him blindly, you end-up like in pre-WW2 and Nazi Germany with a whole population following blindly because some highly placed morons said so. Banning has NEVER been a solution and has never solved a problem (and there are hundreds of examples). There are many ways to stop this kind of extreme examples to happen. For example, gambling companies could be held liable if anybody becomes addicted to their services and commit a crime by negligence. You may dislike gambling (and I do too), but banning it will just make need of people to gamble. And remember also that no laws can prevent human stupidity. You also seem to give too much credit to the Greek government. The fact that they passed a law to ban any games as little to do with their will to help people and make them stop gambling. All they wanted to achieve was to stop secure and reliable way for a government to make money easily (like legal gambling) and you will see if this (supposed to be) so kind government will ban it. ==== There are always idiots in any society and people who should have been sterilised rather than allowing them to have children. Just because she happened to choose this particular method to abuse her children is a condemnation of her not of the method. Should we ban alcohol because a few people become alcoholics? >they are throwing their familly money away, resulting in devastation of > the > >familly, lake of education, food and all the rest, and you also have even >worst cases of lost of responsability, a couple of years ago in australia, > a > >women went for a 'quiky' and left out the one handed bandit a couple of >hours later, handcuffed! she had just 'forgot' her 1 year old daughter to >bake in the car with an outside temperature of over 40Á! and this should > not > >be allowed! > but this is not allowed already, why do you think she ended-up handcuffed ? You have to stop thinking that the government should act as the ultimate > authority and the father of all, showing the guidance to its people. There > are limits that must be followed. > If you always assume that what the government is doing is for your own good > and that you should follow him blindly, you end-up like in pre-WW2 and Nazi > Germany with a whole population following blindly because some highly placed > morons said so. Banning has NEVER been a solution and has never solved a problem (and there > are hundreds of examples). > There are many ways to stop this kind of extreme examples to happen. For > example, gambling companies could be held liable if anybody becomes addicted > to their services and commit a crime by negligence. > You may dislike gambling (and I do too), but banning it will just make > need of people to gamble. And remember also that no laws can prevent human stupidity. You also seem to give too much credit to the Greek government. The fact that > they passed a law to ban any games as little to do with their will to help > people and make them stop gambling. All they wanted to achieve was to stop > secure and reliable way for a government to make money easily (like legal > gambling) and you will see if this (supposed to be) so kind government will > ban it. ==== > Should we ban alcohol because a > few people become alcoholics? Or ban cars, because they unfortunately quite often are in the hands of irresponsible people, who are a huge danger, not only to themselves, but also to other people and their property - not to talk about the economical strain they put on a society. No, banning is rarely the right choice... ==== > Or ban cars, because they unfortunately quite often are in the hands of > irresponsible people, who are a huge danger, not only to themselves, but As of today, I would vote that we ban doors as well after one nastily tried to crunch my hand. Obviously, if doors (and probably windows too) didn't exist such accident wouldn't happen. It would also drop the break-in robbery counts by a significant factor as there would be nothing to break anymore to get in. Plastic bags should also be ban, you can suffocate if you put one on top of your head. Sure you usually see signs and notes saying that a plastic bag is not a toy, but how is a 4 years old child going to read the warnings if he can't read ? Baseball bat should be ban, it seems that in the US more and more people (including 13 and 14 year old kids) are using them to beat to death their abusing father. The world is a huge playground for idiots ==== > The world is a huge playground for idiots Yes, and it gets quite dangerous when they decide to do serious work ;-) Greetings, Nick. ==== > Should we ban alcohol because a > few people become alcoholics? Or ban cars, because they unfortunately quite often are in the hands of > irresponsible people, who are a huge danger, not only to themselves, but > also to other people and their property - not to talk about the economical > strain they put on a society. No, banning is rarely the right choice... > I think smoking should be banned... This way, people who smoke will pay a lot for bad quality cigarettes, so they will die poorer and younger and at last I'll be able to enjoy a walk without losing a lung. Hey, I'm in superb form, tonight! Seriously, now, and more on topic, what's the status of HP48 in 49 in Greece, since there's heaps of games for them? Gerald. ==== >>Should we ban alcohol because a >>few people become alcoholics? >>No, banning is rarely the right choice... > I think smoking should be banned... > This way, people who smoke will pay a lot for bad quality cigarettes, so they will > die poorer and younger and at last I'll be able to enjoy a walk without losing a > lung. I don't think we're going to have to ban cigarettes. There was a (by someone who's opinion counts) that a case could be made for the companies to be charged with multiple counts of murder. The premise being that they are now being legally judged responsible and they didn't have any less information 20 years ago and so, legally, they've been continuing to supply a substance that they knew was deadly. Considering there have been 800,000 deaths in Australia alone since 1950 and continue at 50/day, that makes a lot of murder indictments. ==== >>Should we ban alcohol because a >>few people become alcoholics? Yes, because *I* don't drink > I think smoking should be banned... Yes, because, _I_ don't smoke Games? Yes, because I don't play (that often) Cars? Yes, because I don't own one BUT seriously folks: that is put in to the users upper lip. You may still buy it from Sweden or from tax-free shops on air-ports or on ships They should have done the opposite! Why? Cigar/Cigarette smoke goes to other persons lungs, too. That's the only thing that I would ban and with a reason! Veli-Pekka ==== I think you might have missed the point. Grece has a huge problem with > gambeling and money machines (ie: these casino electronic games stuff), and > they declared that 1: they are not able to distinguish between video game > and gambeling games and 2) that peoples are using normal video games for > gambeling purposes... This is why they descided to ban every game... a > little like the prohibition in the US, because peoples could get drunk with > any type of alcohol, they even banned wine! how shamefull! How come on!... How can it be ever possible to justify such a dumb law. Did the prohibition achieved anything ? It was a period of crime at its peak. This is not just gaming, it's part of education. Are you telling me that all Game is part of education, it's the best way to learn and it probably the way people have been learning from the beginning of human kind. Why do you think teachers are always trying to make what they are teaching FUN? because that's the only way a kid will ever learn. I doubt this law will stay forever, it's the most stupid thing I have EVER heard (except maybe each time Mr G. W. Bush open its mouth) ==== > How come on!... How can it be ever possible to justify such a dumb law. Did > the prohibition achieved anything ? It was a period of crime at its peak. I wonder why!? But actually, prohibition *did* reduce the overall consumption of alcohol in the US by a LOT. It did what it was designed to do.. but it also had some undesired side effects.. which I'm guessing is a big part of why they got rid of it! > This is not just gaming, it's part of education. Are you telling me that all > Game is part of education, it's the best way to learn and it probably the > way people have been learning from the beginning of human kind. > Why do you think teachers are always trying to make what they are teaching > FUN? because that's the only way a kid will ever learn. You'd have to imagine what they were trying to accomplish was something different than what it ended up being. It seems like one of those punish all for the crimes of a few. It was the same thing that happened in the United States with prohibition.. of course it was also part of a religous movement at the time that ended up taking things to an extreme. I think this falls in the category: ideas that have good intent but dont turn out that way because they are simlpy impractical. > I doubt this law will stay forever, it's the most stupid thing I have EVER > heard I've heard more stupid things, but I'd tend to agree with you. I wonder if games also includes competitions such as the Olympic games. Imagine if Greece no longer participated in the Olympics.. wouldn't that be the ultimate irony!? Aaron ==== > I think you might have missed the point. Grece has a huge problem with > gambeling and money machines (ie: these casino electronic games stuff), > and > they declared that 1: they are not able to distinguish between video game > and gambeling games and 2) that peoples are using normal video games for > gambeling purposes... This is why they descided to ban every game... a > little like the prohibition in the US, because peoples could get drunk > with > any type of alcohol, they even banned wine! how shamefull! How come on!... How can it be ever possible to justify such a dumb law. Did > the prohibition achieved anything ? It was a period of crime at its peak. Yep! > This is not just gaming, it's part of education. Are you telling me that all > Game is part of education, it's the best way to learn and it probably the > way people have been learning from the beginning of human kind. > Why do you think teachers are always trying to make what they are teaching > FUN? because that's the only way a kid will ever learn. Exactly! > I doubt this law will stay forever, it's the most stupid thing I have EVER > heard (except maybe each time Mr G. W. Bush open its mouth) Mon capitaine! With all my respect I may disagree with you about Mr. Bush being able to outperform the stupidity of our government. After all we must have something in Greece that keeps the world record. Even if this something is the most dumb laws in the whole universe! ;-) (Believe me there are much more laws of this kind in Greece) Greetings, Nick. ==== I've many Greek customers who bought me our computer games at Jadeware, what about if they can't play it anymore ? Totally stupid law, I hate about this.. -- Julien (Sunhp) Meyer Lead Programmer of Jadeware (C) 1998/2002. 639cb51.0209041204.f6b77a5@posting.google.com... > http://news.com.com/2100-1040-956357.html?tag=fd_top The Greek government has banned all electronic games across the > country, including those that run on home computers, on Game Boy-style > portable consoles, and on mobile phones. Thousands of tourists in > Greece are unknowingly facing heavy fines or long terms in prison for > owning mobile phones or portable video games. club is here to stay. ==== > I've many Greek customers who bought me our computer games at Jadeware, what > about if they can't play it anymore ? > Totally stupid law, I hate about this.. Stupid politicians just can't make any intelligent laws. Gamings, Nick. ==== I'm having trouble transferring files to my HP49G. IO settings are as follows: WIRE (Obviously) Kermit ASCII No translation Checksum Type 1 9600 Baud No Parity No overwrite HPComm settings are as follows: Translation: Mode 0 Checksum: Type 1 Speed: 9600 The calc connects to HPComm OK but I am unable to transfer a file such as ALBW1.1 the Allocated Bandwidth program by Mike Richards. HPComm keeps giving me a The file you tried to send does not contain valid data or a valid program error. I just can't seem to get this transfer to work. Any help would be greatly appreciated as this is driving me nuts. I have had it working correctly previously. ==== I'm having trouble transferring files to my HP49G. IO settings are as > follows: WIRE (Obviously) > Kermit > ASCII > No translation > Checksum Type 1 > 9600 Baud > No Parity > No overwrite HPComm settings are as follows: Translation: Mode 0 > Checksum: Type 1 > Speed: 9600 The calc connects to HPComm OK but I am unable to transfer a file such as > ALBW1.1 the Allocated Bandwidth program by Mike Richards. HPComm keeps > giving me a The file you tried to send does not contain valid data or a > valid program error. I just can't seem to get this transfer to work. Any help would be greatly appreciated as this is driving me nuts. I have had > it working correctly previously. Well, it's a directory, and it has a variable named 'EXIT'. My 49G doesn't like it because I already have a library command named 'EXIT' (in OT49). I modified it to use the name 'QUIT' for that variable, and also to use reals instead of ZINTs. See if you can download the following. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ %%HP: T(3)A(R)F(.); @ Checksum: # F8F3h @ Bytes: 1126.5 DIR DATA 2.048 FEC .666666666667 RS .911111111111 BTS 3. RPRT << Data: DATA 4. RND ->STR + mb FEC: + FEC 4. RND + RS: + RS 4. RND + Tran: + DATA RS FEC * / DUP BTS / -> t s << t 6. RND ->STR + mb BTS: + BTS + IF 'BTS==1.' THEN (BPSK) + ELSE IF 'BTS==2.' THEN (QPSK) + ELSE IF 'BTS==3. ' THEN (8PSK) + ELSE IF 'BTS== 4.' THEN (16QAM) + END END END END Symb: + s 6. RND ->STR + mb OcBW: + s 1.2 * 6. RND ->STR + MHz AlBW: + s 1.4 * .02 + 6. RND ->STR + MHz + '182' STO 182 CLLCD 1. DISP 3. FREEZE > > PRINT << 182 PR1 CLEAR > PRDEV << -34. FS? IF 1. == THEN { { []WIRE << -34. SF 0. DELAY 0. MENU > } { IR << -34. CF 1.8 DELAY 0. MENU > } } TMENU ELSE { { WIRE << -34. SF 0. DELAY 0. MENU > } { []IR << -34. CF 1.8 DELAY 0. MENU > } } TMENU END > QUIT << UPDIR 2. MENU > 182 Data: 2.048 mb FEC: .6667 RS: .9111 Tran: 3.371707 mb BTS: 3 (8PSK) Symb: 1.123902 mb OcBW: 1.348683 MHz AlBW: 1.593463 MHz END ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- James ==== Binary? X > HPComm keeps > giving me a The file you tried to send does not contain valid data or a > valid program error. ==== ... doesn't seem to make any difference ... ==== When I lend my calc to friends, I wnt it to be algebric and was not happy with what I found on hpcalc so I developped my own. Please send me comments. It is available at: http://www.chez.com/amiel/hp48/algcalc.zip And only works on HP48G and HP48GX. It is obviously useless on the 49 and use unsupported entry points that have changed from the S serie. Arnaud ==== Great idea! - I have exactly the same problem when I lend my calc. Needs to be developed Andrew > When I lend my calc to friends, I wnt it to be algebric and was not > happy with what I found on hpcalc so I developped my own. > Please send me comments. > It is available at: > http://www.chez.com/amiel/hp48/algcalc.zip And only works on HP48G and HP48GX. It is obviously useless on the 49 > and use unsupported entry points that have changed from the S serie. > Arnaud ==== Andrew Hall escribi.97 en el mensaje > Great idea! - I have exactly the same problem when I lend my calc. Needs to be developed Andrew Much better: don't lend the calculator :-D ==== Back in high school when someone wanted to borrow my HP I'd give it to them, watch them hit a few keys, and ask me, where's the equals key? They never asked again. Andrew Hall escribi.97 en el mensaje > Great idea! - I have exactly the same problem when I lend my calc. Needs to be developed Andrew Much better: don't lend the calculator :-D > ==== This ng is filled with very useful and interesting posts whch I read contribute. I hope my thoughts here are not too OT. I have been thinking about the direction HP has taken away from RPN for their new calculator products. There are obviously a lot of folks who use the advanced graphical and symbolic capabilities of the HP48/49 calcs, and the wish lists often focus on enhancing these features with color displays, faster plotting, and the like. For me however, plotting and advanced data analysis are more comfortable on a PC using Origin, Axum, Matlab, or similar programs. So, some prefer the convenience of the handheld calc for advanced features, but others (like me) are more pedestrian in their use. The products whose disappearance really pains me is the RPN-based, scientific, shirt-pocket calculator. The HP42S, 15C, etc. command hefty prices on the used market. I know that some of this is driven by collectors, but I often see WTB posts from users whose 42S just died and they just want a replacement in working order. Even the collector interest in these calcs points to their great utility - I doubt that the algebraic HP20S, if discontinued today, would command $200 on the used market anytime soon. So, this leads to question. Is there a reasonable chance that ANYONE will introduce a new pocket scientific calculator which uses RPN? I know the potential market is smaller, but with TI, Casio, Sharp, and others competing for shelf space at Walmart with their $8.99 - $12.99 offerings, could someone find a place in their product line for a RPN-based scientific with similar capabilities, but at a higher price? $50-$75 would not be a deterrent for me, and some keystroke programming capability would be worth more. Are there others like me out there, or not? I would guess that few students would buy RPN on a whim, since the algebraic system is all they have been exposed to. Do you think it would catch on? Perhaps RPN and the OLD HP calculator philosophy were somehow tied together. HP calcs were never promoted to be the cheap calc for everyday balancing-your-checkbook use. The quality was higher, and the intended market was more demanding. The professionals and students for whom the older HP calcs were designed were willing to pay a little more, and invest a little more time in learning how to use it. Maybe the guys who buy cheap calcs at Walmart would never be interested in RPN. Sorry for all the rambling here. I hope I'll hear something encouraging about the future, but I don't know. I'm not too old at 44 yet, but I have noticed the funny looks I get from new grads if I talk nostalgically about my old HP29C! Don Davis ==== > I would guess that few students would buy RPN on a whim, since the > algebraic system is all they have been exposed to. Do you think it > would catch on? I'm a mechanical engineering student in Queensland, Australia. While hp calcs are not the most popular (due to the ti83(+)), they are definitely not the least popular. eg. I see many more hp49's than ti89's. In my course (2nd year mech) there are at least 10 (out of 60 or so) people that use an hp calc of the RPN variety. If trends are similar in other places, there is a market in RPN for students. Many friends of mine are envious of my 49's capabilities. ~17% * RPN market at UQ - sounds like a big enough share to me. However, I'm pretty sure that hp have done their sums. Pity. Andrew * ~17% from my (feeble) observations only. ==== > Is there a reasonable chance that ANYONE will introduce a new pocket > scientific calculator which uses RPN? I know the potential market is > smaller, but with TI, Casio, Sharp, and others competing for shelf > space at Walmart with their $8.99 - $12.99 offerings, could someone > find a place in their product line for a RPN-based scientific with > similar capabilities, but at a higher price? $50-$75 would not be a > deterrent for me, and some keystroke programming capability would be > worth more. Are there others like me out there, or not? I think the market for calculators in that price range has been eaten. It used to be the case that you could buy a good scientific calculator for say, fifty to a few hundred dollars, or you could spend maybe 2,000 on a PC, and then have to buy or write software for it, and it wasn't portable. So there was a whacking great hole in the market where engineers and other professional-type people would buy a good calculator. But now, well, a well-engineered calculator *still* costs $50-200, especially if the market is small. And the market is small because for $300 or something you can buy a PDA which will do most of what the calculator would do, *and* be a diary &c &c (and soon, if not now, be a phone too). And for not that much more you can buy a genuinely portable laptop onto which you can stuff mathematica and so on. So I think the market for decent calculators has changed from professionals who couldn't afford a computer - either because it was too heavy or too expensive - to people who aren't *allowed* to have a computer, namely students in exams. Those people have different requirements (and less money). Whether the market could sustain a low-end RPN calculator I don't know. I suspect not, though. --tim ==== Don Davis escribi.97 en el mensaje Sorry for all the rambling here. I hope I'll hear something > encouraging about the future, but I don't know. I'm not too old at 44 > yet, but I have noticed the funny looks I get from new grads if I talk > nostalgically about my old HP29C! Don Davis I'm 34 and the first sci calculator I had in my hands was a 34c that nobody knows how works... (1981) My 48 is a great help in my work but for many tasks I diary use a recently exchanged 15c. They are simply priceless. And the future is black. Dark black. ==== There's not much I wouldn't do for a simple, good-quality, RPN calculator, even just a 4-banger. I'd probably buy several (car, workshop, study, kitchen...) Neill McKay ==== the hp32sii works for me! http://www.henryhall.com/catalog.htm search for hew32sii, a really nice calculator :) $66 anybody knows a cheaper place to buy? > There's not much I wouldn't do for a simple, good-quality, RPN > calculator, even just a 4-banger. I'd probably buy several (car, > workshop, study, kitchen...) Neill McKay ==== > the hp32sii works for me! http://www.henryhall.com/catalog.htm search for hew32sii, a really nice calculator :) $66 I have a 32sii, which is probably my favourite of 3 HPs. Unfortunately, $66 is above the cheap enough to buy 3 or 4 threshold. What I'd like to see is a decent, simple, RPN calculator (not necessarily build to HP standards) in the $10-$15 range. Neill McKay ==== | the hp32sii works for me! | http://www.henryhall.com/catalog.htm | search for hew32sii, a really nice calculator :) | $66 The 48SX works for me. I bought my last one (#3) for $50. ==== > I can post my C/CV version too if anyone's interested. Well, I've had a request to post my HP-41C/CV version of FEX, so here it is. It's based on Terry Griffin's FEX for the 41CX and is identical to it except that GETKEYX (which is only available on the CX) has been replaced with GETKEY. That means that lines 05 and 06 in the original have been replaced with lines 05 through 36 in my version. (GETKEYX is much simpler to use!) There's probably a better way to do this; this is a quick-and-dirty solution, but it works. This version requires the Extended Functions module to run on a 41C or 41CV. It also uses one synthetic text line, line 02, with the hex values F5 46 47 58 20 5F. Just as with the original version, line 02 can be replaced with these three lines: 02 FEX 03 95 04 XTOA if you aren't familiar with entering synthetics. Just for fun, I'm working on another version that uses synthetic programming to eliminate the need for the Extended Functions module, so that anyone with any model of 41 can use it without additional modules. I'll post it here when it's ready. 01 LABEL FEX 02 FEX _ 03 AVIEW 04 FEX 05 GETKEY 06 GTO IND X 07 LBL 52 08 55 09 GTO 00 10 LBL 53 11 56 12 GTO 00 13 LBL 54 14 57 15 GTO 00 16 LBL 62 17 52 18 GTO 00 19 LBL 63 20 53 21 GTO 00 22 LBL 64 23 54 24 GTO 00 25 LBL 72 26 49 27 GTO 00 28 LBL 73 29 50 30 GTO 00 31 LBL 74 32 51 33 GTO 00 34 LBL 81 35 48 36 LBL 00 37 XTOA 38 AVIEW 39 X<>Y 40 CLX 41 48 42 - 43 ENG 0 44 RCLFLAG 45 FIX IND Y 46 X<>Y 47 CLX 48 41 49 STOFLAG 50 RUP 51 RUP 52 CLD 53 END -- Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== > Just for fun, I'm working on another version that uses synthetic > programming to eliminate the need for the Extended Functions module, > so that anyone with any model of 41 can use it without additional modules. > I'll post it here when it's ready. Here I am replying to myself again. I'm starting to feel schizophrenic. :-) This is my synthetic version of Terry Griffin's FEX program from PPC Journal V13N8 (November 1986). For those who've just joined the thread, FEX is a program for setting the FIX and ENG modes of the HP-41 simultaneously (which can't be done directly from the keyboard). It lets you display smaller numbers in ordinary fixed-point format, with an automatic switch to engineering notation if the number becomes too large or small to display in fixed format. Terry's original program (which can be found further back in this thread) requires an HP-41CX; I made a modified version (also posted earlier in this thread) which works on a 41C or 41CV with the Extended Functions module. This newest version eliminates all need for extended functions, but it does make use of synthetic instructions. (If you're not familiar with synthetic programming, there's a wonderful short introduction at http://www.hpmuseum.org/prog/synth41.htm which also tells you how to create a byte grabber, the only synthetic tool needed for entering this program.) This version of FEX makes use of a technique that, to my knowledge, was first discovered by Topi Linkala and documented in PPC Journal V8N5P19 (July 1981). It involves using prefix 9C (the FIX instruction) with postfixes ranging from hex 40 to 49 (or in decimal, 64 to 73). These correspond to the normal FIX 0 through FIX 9, except that they also set the ENG flag (flag 41) at the same time. You can't use these codes from the keyboard (for example, FIX 68) because the keyboard input routine won't accept them, but it's possible to insert them with a synthetic program. These instructions appear in the program listing below as normal FIX instructions, but they aren't really; for instance, FIX 68 appears in the listing as FIX 8. For that reason I've included the hex codes for each synthetic line next to the program line. I've also used the ~ character in text strings to represent the APPEND character (which is entered by pressing [SHIFT][XEQ] in ALPHA mode). 01 LABEL FEX 02 FEX _ F5 46 47 58 20 5F 03 AVIEW 04 FEX 05 GETKEY 06 GTO IND X 07 LBL 52 08 ~7 09 FIX 1 9C 47 10 GTO 00 11 LBL 53 12 ~8 13 FIX 2 9C 48 14 GTO 00 15 LBL 54 16 ~9 17 FIX 3 9C 49 18 GTO 00 19 LBL 62 20 ~4 21 FIX 8 9C 44 22 GTO 00 23 LBL 63 24 ~5 25 FIX 9 9C 45 26 GTO 00 27 LBL 64 28 ~6 29 FIX 0 9C 46 30 GTO 00 31 LBL 72 32 ~1 33 FIX 5 9C 41 34 GTO 00 35 LBL 73 36 ~2 37 FIX 6 9C 42 38 GTO 00 39 LBL 74 40 ~3 41 FIX 7 9C 43 42 GTO 00 43 LBL 82 44 ~0 45 FIX 4 9C 40 46 LBL 00 47 AVIEW 48 PSE 49 RDN 50 CLD 51 END -- Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== It was pointed out to me by Gene Wright that my so-called all synthetic version of FEX still used one extended function -- the GETKEY function. (That's what I get for failing to test it *without* an Extended Functions module.) So I've tried one more time (the *last* time, I hope!) to get it right. This version adds a couple more synthetic instructions and a flag test to remove the need for GETKEY. My whole objective in this (as in Terry Griffin's original FEX program, on which this is based) was to make it act as much like the built-in FIX, SCI, and ENG functions as possible; the prompt looks the same, and it does not require pressing RUN/STOP after digit entry. Unfortunately, without the use of either GETKEY or GETKEYX I've been unable to eliminate a small delay in which the digit entered is displayed without the FEX prompt. If anyone else knows how to fix this small cosmetic flaw, I'd like to see their solution. Anyway, here's the new version. For the curious, here's a brief description of how it works: the user enters a digit. as turning on flag 40 (FIX mode) and flag 41 (ENG mode). appended. It does this by using a synthetic instruction to grab a copy of the Flag register (register d), setting the digit display length to zero and turning off the decimal point (flag 29), appending the digit in the X register to the string in the ALPHA register, and restoring the copy of the flags to register d. condition. (The X and Y registers are preserved, but the contents of registers Z and T are lost.) As before, I've added the appropriate hex values for the synthetic lines. Note that line 43 really is a FIX 0 instruction, not a synthetic line! It's the only FIX in this program that *isn't* a synthetic instruction. 01 LABEL FEX 02 FEX _ F5 46 47 58 20 5F 03 AVIEW 04 CF 22 05 LBL 22 06 PSE 07 FC? 22 08 GTO 22 09 GTO IND X 10 LBL 00 11 FIX 4 9C 40 12 GTO 10 13 LBL 01 14 FIX 5 9C 41 15 GTO 10 16 LBL 02 17 FIX 6 9C 42 18 GTO 10 19 LBL 03 20 FIX 7 9C 43 21 GTO 10 22 LBL 04 23 FIX 8 9C 44 24 GTO 10 25 LBL 05 26 FIX 9 9C 45 27 GTO 10 28 LBL 06 29 FIX 0 9C 46 30 GTO 10 31 LBL 07 32 FIX 1 9C 47 33 GTO 10 34 LBL 08 35 FIX 2 9C 48 36 GTO 10 37 LBL 09 38 FIX 3 9C 49 39 LBL 10 40 RCL d 90 7E 41 X<>Y 42 FIX 0 43 CF 29 44 FEX 45 ARCL X 46 X<>Y 47 STO d 91 7E 48 AVIEW 49 PSE 50 RDN 51 RDN 52 CLD 53 END -- Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== A quick correction: in the 41C/CV version of FEX, this line: 34 LBL 81 should actually be: 34 LBL 82 -- Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== Lately when I work with my HP49 I get to many variables like ppar y1 y2 and stuff like that, so i tried to design a program in sysrpl to erase all the variables but the program it self, but I can't make it work, it always erases all the variables. :: Dovars (here the comand that explodes the list and puts the number of objects, I don't remeber it now: FPTR 6 158) Bint0 Do Dup ' Id CLN (this is the name of the variable where the program is stored) EQ ITE :: drop ; :: purge ; Loop I think that the problem is the way I compare the variables' name. Any body has some ideas? Marturo UBI DUBIDUM IBI LIBERTAS ==== I think that the problem is the way I compare the variables' name. Exactly. EQ compares just the memory address of the two objects. I.e. #5555 DUP EQ ( returns TRUE ) #5555 #5555 EQ ( FALSE ) #5555 #5555 EQUAL ( TRUE ) Note that you cannot do this with built-in BINTs like BINT0. Greetings Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, confuse them. -- Harry S. Truman ==== > when I work with my HP49 I get too many variables like ppar y1 y2 > and stuff like that, so I tried to design a program in sysrpl > to erase all the variables but the program itself. Here's a very dangerous user program which can reside in a directory, which will clear every variable but itself (so don't store it in HOME, for heaven's sake ;) << 15 TVARS '~' + PGDIR 'ZAP' DUP RCL CLVAR SWAP STO > 'ZAP' STO Like the nitroglycerin which my high school buddies easily made in chemistry lab, however, or the nuclear cores, chemical wastes, climate and genetic changes, etc. which governments and industries have manufactured and now are stuck with, now the new problem is how to get rid of it, to prevent the unfortunate destructive consequences of not doing so. But perhaps we could sidestep this problem by not creating it for ourselves in the first place, except only as a [misguided] training exercise. Note that these calculators permit the creation of subdirectories; when we work in a subdirectory, all variables in its parent directory(ies) remain accessible by name, as with a path in Unix or MS-DOS, or a searchlist in other systems. So, create an empty directory, e.g. 'MYDIR' CRDIR Then go into that empty directory (just press the MYDIR menu key). Then solve equations and create many variables; when you want to delete them all, just type CLVAR. CLVAR deletes all variables in the current directory, but it leaves all parent directories alone. This accomplishes the goal that you wanted; there are many extra tools that we could also make and use when we don't bother making ourselves a subdirectory, such as clean solvers and the like, which you have to keep remembering to always use to make them effective, but to me, the ultimate tool is just to take advantage of the built-in capabilities, when there's no need to do more. It is often equally not realized that every living entity (and society) has native capabilities that can accomplish its goals, without creating its own obstacles and then losing itself in the task of making greater efforts to solve the self-created problems. There is nothing more practical in the world than finding the best native way to accomplish the ultimate goals that people really want, and that's just what we do at our university. I simply say to you that we have the metaphysical mind apprehending, comprehending, and ordering the physical. The physical tending to be disorderly and the metaphysical apprehending, comprehending, and putting together. Man, therefore, represents the very clearly demonstrated function in the universe that is essential to the regeneration of the universe. R. Buckminster Fuller, Approaching the Benign Environment, 1970. Q171.F96 on your library shelf, if you have a well-stocked library. A different perspective on all of history; past, present, and future. Here also are the first paragraphs of Fuller's Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth http://www.bfi.org/operating_manual.htm I am enthusiastic over humanity's extraordinary and sometimes very timely ingenuities. If you are in a shipwreck and all the boats are gone, a piano top buoyant enough to keep you afloat that comes along makes a fortuitous life preserver. But this is not to say that the best way to design a life preserver is in the form of a piano top. I think that we are clinging to a great many piano tops in accepting yesterday's fortuitous contrivings as constituting the only means for solving a given problem. Our brains deal exclusively with special-case experiences. Only our minds are able to discover the generalized principles operating without exception in each and every special-experience case which if detected and mastered will give knowledgeable advantage in all instances. Because our spontaneous initiative has been frustrated, too often inadvertently, in earliest childhood, we do not tend, customarily, to dare to think competently regarding our potentials. We find it socially easier to go on with our narrow, shortsighted specializations and leave it to others -- primarily to the politicians -- to find some way of resolving our common dilemmas. Note that in the second paragraph, Fuller has already distinguished mind (metaphysical, which we call consciousness) from brain (physical), after which I can only think to repeat the first Fuller quote: I simply say to you that we have the metaphysical mind apprehending, comprehending, and ordering the physical. The physical tending to be disorderly and the metaphysical apprehending, comprehending, and putting together. Man, therefore, represents the very clearly demonstrated function in the universe that is essential to the regeneration of the universe. This is exactly what we experience, what we apply to education, and what we apply to the entire world around us. G'day! http://www.mum.edu . ==== Can someone help me finding a hp48 emulator for psion/epoc? Zender ==== I have two programs listed below which I need to join however it is not obvious to me. My problem is I am communicating with a SDL30 digital level and the only way to prompt the instrument to start reading is to initiate the first program and then press the cancel button on the calculator which then starts the machine to read. The second program can be initiated to receive the information. Is there another way to prompt the same result not using the RECV command hence deleting unnecessary keystrokes and messy programming. .82 CLEAR LM XMIT RECV é .82 BUFLEN DROP SRECV CLOSEIO DROP OBJ-> é Martin ==== I have two programs listed below which I need to join > however it is not obvious to me. My problem is I am > communicating with a SDL30 digital level and the only > way to prompt the instrument to start reading is to > initiate the first program and then press the cancel button > on the calculator which then starts the machine to read. > The second program can be initiated to receive the information. > Is there another way to prompt the same result not using the > RECV command hence deleting unnecessary keystrokes > and messy programming. .82 CLEAR LM XMIT > RECV > é .82 > BUFLEN DROP > SRECV CLOSEIO DROP > OBJ- é > Martin If I got you right, then you want the HP to tell the SDL30 to start reading. So you send the command LM and then the SDL30 starts reading and sends data to the HP. If that is what you want then you could use: << -> data << OPENIO LM XMIT DROP WHILE BUFLEN DROP REPEAT 'data' SRECV DROP STO+ END data OBJ-> CLOSEIO > Was it what you wanted? Nick. ==== I have two programs listed below which I need to join > however it is not obvious to me. My problem is I am > communicating with a SDL30 digital level and the only > way to prompt the instrument to start reading is to > initiate the first program and then press the cancel button > on the calculator which then starts the machine to read. > The second program can be initiated to receive the information. > Is there another way to prompt the same result not using the > RECV command hence deleting unnecessary keystrokes > and messy programming. .82 CLEAR LM XMIT > RECV > é .82 > BUFLEN DROP > SRECV CLOSEIO DROP > OBJ- é > Martin > If I got you right, then you want the HP to tell the SDL30 to start > reading. So you send the command LM and then the SDL30 starts reading > and sends data to the HP. If that is what you want then you could use: << > -> data > << OPENIO > LM XMIT DROP > WHILE > BUFLEN DROP > REPEAT > 'data' > SRECV DROP > STO+ > END > data OBJ- CLOSEIO > > > Was it what you wanted? > Nick. Nick, The program you have written is basically what I had in mind however my problem is not that. I am told to get the instrument to read I need to send LM (ie LM XMIT). However to get it to read I need to send LM XMIT RECV or LM XMIT 'n' KGET putting the calculator in server mode. So can the server mode be cancelled from within a program or am I missing the obvious with IOPAR at { 1200 0 0 1 2 } or is there another way to send the command. Martin ==== --------snipped rest-------- > Nick, The program you have written is basically what I had > in mind however my problem is not that. I am told to get the instrument to read I need to send LM > (ie LM XMIT). However to get it to read I need to send > LM XMIT RECV or LM XMIT 'n' KGET putting the calculator > in server mode. But Martin, to *send* LM or any other string you only need XMIT. Why do you use RECV or KGET after that? XMIT just sends the string LM to the other device, instructing it so to do something. The rest of the stuf, RECV or KGET is to just receive what the other device sends to you. I must be missing something here... > So can the server mode be cancelled from within a program > or am I missing the obvious with IOPAR at { 1200 0 0 1 2 } > or is there another way to send the command. No, the IOPAR is for transfer setting but nothing more. Greetings, Nick. ==== .82 CLEAR LM XMIT > RECV > é .82 > BUFLEN DROP > SRECV CLOSEIO DROP > OBJ- é Considering your no error checking approach, << LM XMIT DROP > should do fine for the first program... HTH Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, confuse them. -- Harry S. Truman ==== I have bought a PC connectivity kit for my HP48GX calculator. I can download just fine and can edit with HP-IDE. The problem is that the calculator won't accept the edited files back. Is this a common problem, or is it just me? Rod ==== I just acquired a 48GX. How can I connect it to my B&W G3 in order to download software into the 48GX? ==== > I just acquired a 48GX. How can I connect it to my B&W G3 in order to > download software into the 48GX? You need first a cable for connecting the HP48GX to the Mac. I think that such cables are still sold by HP, but I'm not sure. They connect the serial port of the HP48GX with the pronter or modem port of the Mac. (The G3 has serial printer and modem port, doesn't it?) Then you need some program like kermit, or version 4 of ClarisWorks along with a kermitor Xmodem module for the communications Toolbox. Do you have such software? If not, I could give you a very old (but very functional) version of kermit or CW. I suppose you know how to set up I/O on the HP49G, so I go directly to the setup of the Mac. With ClarisWorks you start the program, and create a new communications document. Then select menu connection and choose serial connection with the same parameters like the HP49G. Choose also the right port (modem or pronter). Then you select menu file transfer and choose the protocoll for the transfer. (Xmodem or kermit) Select binary for tranfer mode (not Macbinary!). Then select connect menu and the Program connects to the serial port that you selected previously. Now from the menu transfer you can selct receive or send file and so on. Greetings and do not hesitate to contact me if you still have problems. Nick. ==== > I just acquired a 48GX. How can I connect it to my B&W G3 in order to > download software into the 48GX? > You need first a cable for connecting the HP48GX to the Mac. I think > that such cables are still sold by HP, but I'm not sure. They connect > the serial port of the HP48GX with the pronter or modem port of the > Mac. (The G3 has serial printer and modem port, doesn't it?) > No. ==== I just acquired a 48GX. How can I connect it to my B&W G3 in order to > download software into the 48GX? > You need first a cable for connecting the HP48GX to the Mac. I think > that such cables are still sold by HP, but I'm not sure. They connect > the serial port of the HP48GX with the pronter or modem port of the > Mac. (The G3 has serial printer and modem port, doesn't it?) > No. Instead they have USB and (sometimes) Firewire ports. Mac operating > systems up to OS 9 support serial ports, for backwards compatibility > support serial ports even if they are present in the machine OS X is > running on. > Oh man, I got left behind! ;-) You must buy then a USB to serial converter. I have one for using my printers (serial and appletalk) from my iMac. Or is there kermit over USB connection? Anyone has seen something like this out there? Greetings, Nick. ==== I've never used the equation library on the 48, so I'm not sure how eql49 should work. When I start it, the menus come up fine (although the version at the top is 2.6 even though the lib filename is 2.7). When I pick a formula and select SLV, I see the soft menus at the bottom for the vars, and the rpn stack at the top (I'm nit sure this is how it should look). If I type a number and select a soft key, the key does not fill in like I would expect. If I then left shift the var I want to solve it seems to work ok. If I then select nxeq I can move between the formulas in the group, but I can't seem to find a way to move back up a level to select a new group of formulas. Is this a limitation, or is something wrong with my installation? I'm using the Steve ==== Behaves the same for me. I think once you're into the solver you have exited eql49 so you have to start it again to select another equation from the library. Not sure if it would be possible to fix. Perhaps you could code a custom solver called when you exited eql49 that added a menu key to restart eql49. I often use additional menu keys for varius functions in my stored equations. eg (if I get this right) .82 { 'Y=k1*X+k2' { X Y { Set1 .82 0.7000 'k1' STO 0.3000 'k2' STO é } { eql49 .82 eql49 EVAL é } } } STEQ 30.0000 MENU é Another thing I'd like to see with eql49 is for the ENTER key to act as OK while in eql49. Sounds like a simple change. Next change would be to combine the stored library, USEREQ and directory library modes so that the root list is a choice of these modes. Stephen N > I've never used the equation library on the 48, so I'm not sure how > eql49 should work. When I start it, the menus come up fine (although > the version at the top is 2.6 even though the lib filename is 2.7). > When I pick a formula and select SLV, I see the soft menus at the > bottom for the vars, and the rpn stack at the top (I'm nit sure this > is how it should look). If I type a number and select a soft key, the > key does not fill in like I would expect. If I then left shift the var > I want to solve it seems to work ok. If I then select nxeq I can move > between the formulas in the group, but I can't seem to find a way to > move back up a level to select a new group of formulas. Is this a > limitation, or is something wrong with my installation? I'm using the Steve ==== I have looked high and low for a decent example of the operation of the 3d systems (specifically fast3d) in the 49G. None of the HP offered examples work, not one. The hp49g pdf examples fail. I am frustrated, but not beyond believeing that I have screwed up. I have done it before and likely won't stop until I am dead :) I am using the 19-6 rom upgrade (so far so good...) Additionally, could someone briefly explain to me what Masd does? Lastly, I know some briliant people read this list, and have built these calcs. I would just like to say Nice job. Matt ==== Well, I might have enought knowledge about these 2 program to be able to help you... Fast3D: Purge the EQ, PPAR and VPAR variable (ie: remove all existing stuff so we start from a clean table) in the 2D/3D menu (shift F4), choose FAST3D mode and enter the following equation: 'SIN(X)*SIN(Y)', then press draw. To make things bettern in the WIN menu (shift F2) enter -3 3 -3 3 for X and Y and press draw. you can then use the arrow, + and - and I and L to 'move' the graph. MASD: MASD is a system-RPL and assembly compiler. ie: it allows you to program the calculator in these languages. This is much more complex than RPL and much more dangerous (ie: memory lost), however, it allows you to make much faster programs.... For more information, you should dig in the www.hpcal.org website and look for some documentation on programming in these languages... I have looked high and low for a decent example of the operation of the > 3d systems (specifically fast3d) in the 49G. None of the HP offered examples work, not one. The hp49g pdf examples > fail. I am frustrated, but not beyond believeing that I have screwed up. > I have done it before and likely won't stop until I am dead :) I am using the 19-6 rom upgrade (so far so good...) Additionally, could someone briefly explain to me what Masd does? Lastly, I know some briliant people read this list, and have built these > calcs. I would just like to say Nice job. Matt > ==== Yea, I guess you might have enough information, huh? :) Cyrille, I am honored that you would take the time to engage a lowly cal. II student about his poorly run calulator, but I really appreciate it. Your example worked like a charm. After that worked, I went back to the original and (after wiping out the PPAR var and others) used the following: z=x^2*y-xy^3 This is the example in the manual(page 4-27 of the pdf). It shows up as a blank screen after a few moments (10-20 sec) of calculating. This is to say that the screen shows a very nice and normal display, offering no data other than the compass in the lower left and the exit button in the lower right. Is this a bug, or am I doing something else incorrectly? Matt Well, I might have enought knowledge about these 2 program to be able to > help you... Fast3D: > Purge the EQ, PPAR and VPAR variable (ie: remove all existing stuff so we > start from a clean table) > in the 2D/3D menu (shift F4), choose FAST3D mode and enter the following > equation: 'SIN(X)*SIN(Y)', then press draw. > To make things bettern in the WIN menu (shift F2) enter -3 3 -3 3 for X and > Y and press draw. > you can then use the arrow, + and - and I and L to 'move' the graph. MASD: > MASD is a system-RPL and assembly compiler. ie: it allows you to program the > calculator in these languages. This is much more complex than RPL and much > more dangerous (ie: memory lost), however, it allows you to make much faster > programs.... > For more information, you should dig in the www.hpcal.org website and look > for some documentation on programming in these languages... > >I have looked high and low for a decent example of the operation of the >3d systems (specifically fast3d) in the 49G. >None of the HP offered examples work, not one. The hp49g pdf examples >fail. I am frustrated, but not beyond believeing that I have screwed up. >I have done it before and likely won't stop until I am dead :) >I am using the 19-6 rom upgrade (so far so good...) >Additionally, could someone briefly explain to me what Masd does? >Lastly, I know some briliant people read this list, and have built these >calcs. I would just like to say Nice job. >Matt > ==== just a guess: are you entering xy as x * y? Otherwise the calc would think you refer to a variable called xy. When this variable isn't defined there will be no valid values in your plot, hence the empty screen. Thomas > Yea, I guess you might have enough information, huh? :) > Cyrille, I am honored that you would take the time to engage a lowly > cal. II student about his poorly run calulator, but I really appreciate it. Your example worked like a charm. After that worked, I went back to the > original and (after wiping out the PPAR var and others) used the following: z=x^2*y-xy^3 This is the example in the manual(page 4-27 of the pdf). > It shows up as a blank screen after a few moments (10-20 sec) of > calculating. This is to say that the screen shows a very nice and normal > display, offering no data other than the compass in the lower left and > the exit button in the lower right. Is this a bug, or am I doing something else incorrectly? Matt > ==== Matt just a guess: are you entering xy as x * y? > Otherwise the calc would think you refer to > a variable called xy. When this variable > isn't defined there will be no valid values > in your plot, hence the empty screen. Thomas Yea, I guess you might have enough information, huh? :) > Cyrille, I am honored that you would take the time to engage a lowly > cal. II student about his poorly run calulator, but I really appreciate it. Your example worked like a charm. After that worked, I went back to the > original and (after wiping out the PPAR var and others) used the following: z=x^2*y-xy^3 This is the example in the manual(page 4-27 of the pdf). > It shows up as a blank screen after a few moments (10-20 sec) of > calculating. This is to say that the screen shows a very nice and normal > display, offering no data other than the compass in the lower left and > the exit button in the lower right. Is this a bug, or am I doing something else incorrectly? Matt > ==== I have looked high and low for a decent example of the operation of the > 3d systems (specifically fast3d) in the 49G. None of the HP offered examples work, not one. The hp49g pdf examples > fail. I am frustrated, but not beyond believeing that I have screwed up. > I have done it before and likely won't stop until I am dead :) Red alert! Another suicidal tendency because of usage of the Hp49G ;-) To graph a fast3d plot. PURGE first the variables EQ, PPAR and VPAR. They could contain some parameters that prevent the plot to show. Press simoultaneously [blue-shift] and [F4]. Enter your equation and choose plot type FAST3D. Enter the two independend variables in the input fields Indep: and Depnd: Now Press simoultaneously [blue-shift] and [F2]. Enter the appropriate number of steps for Indep: and Depnd: (How dense the grid will be). Press [F5] and then [F4]. If it didn't help could you please describe a bit more detailed what happens and how the HP49G reacts when you want to plot? Greetings, Nick. ==== For sale, two (2) HP 49G calcs located in the UK, both in excellent condition and one has hardly been used. Manual(s) included. Make me a (sensible) offer... ==== What is HP-42X? It is an HP-42S Extended MicroCode Emulator for HP-48GX/SX and HP-49G. It fully emulates the HP-42S calculator because it is based on the real HP-42 ROM. Beside the emulation, I added some advanced features (like 96K of RAM and 31K of port memory) to the original specifications. Details on how to get it as well as some screen shots are on my homepage http://hrastprogrammer.tripod.com... There are few variations of HP-42X according to the various calculator configurations and different user needs. These are: HP42X48: The FINAL version for HP-48GX with a 128K RAM card in Slot1 and >=128K RAM card in Slot2. Uses one RAM card for the HP-42/Emulator ROM and another for the HP-42/Emulator RAM. HP42X48D: The DEMO version for HP-48GX with only one >=128K RAM card in either Slot1 or Slot2. Uses RAM card for the HP-42/Emulator ROM and main calculator RAM for the HP-42/Emulator RAM. Destroys some parts of main calculator RAM! HP42X48L: The FINAL version for HP-48GX with only one >=128K RAM card in either Slot1 or Slot2. Uses RAM card for the HP-42/Emulator ROM and Port0 for the HP-42/Emulator RAM. HP42X48S: The FINAL version for HP-48SX with a 128K RAM card in Port1 and another 128K RAM card in Port2. Uses one RAM card for the HP-42/Emulator ROM and another for the HP-42/Emulator RAM. HP42X49: The FINAL version for HP-49G with both banks of Port1 empty. Uses one bank for the HP-42/Emulator ROM and another for the HP-42/Emulator RAM (uses the whole Port1). HP42X49D: The DEMO version for HP-49G with only one bank of Port1 empty. Uses this bank for the HP-42/Emulator ROM and and main calculator RAM for the HP-42/Emulator RAM. Destroys some parts of main calculator RAM! HP42X49L: The FINAL version for HP-49G with only one bank of Port1 empty. Uses this bank for the HP-42/Emulator ROM and Port0 for the HP-42/Emulator RAM. This version is especially suitable for use with HP-41X because it allows you to have both HP-41X and HP-42X installed together (into Port1). I am planning one maintenance release of HP-42X for october. It will contain fixes for all bugs which will (eventually) be discovered as well as the following commands: SAVE for exporting the HP-42 program to HP-48/49, LOAD for importing the HP-42 program from HP-48/49, SAVEP for saving the HP-42 program to port memory, LOADP for loading the HP-42 program from port memory, PURGE for deleting the HP-42 program from port memory and CATP for displaying all programs contained in the port memory. Registered users will get the maintenance release for free when it will be released. ==== On Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:45:56 +0200, HrastProgrammer fully emulates the HP-42S calculator because it is based on the real HP-42 >ROM. Beside the emulation, I added some advanced features (like 96K of RAM >and 31K of port memory) to the original specifications. So I guess this means HP has freely released the 42S ROM for commercial and non-commercial use alike? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== > So I guess this means HP has freely released the 42S ROM for > commercial and non-commercial use alike? > No, but you must dump the ROM from your HP-42S and use it with the emulator ... ==== You know, you are really making it difficult for me to resist buying this from you. :-) Gene -- * All opinions herein expressed are mine and * * mine alone. You may choose to ignore them * * but I own them. * > What is HP-42X? It is an HP-42S Extended MicroCode Emulator for HP-48GX/SX and HP-49G. It > fully emulates the HP-42S calculator because it is based on the real HP-42 > ROM. Beside the emulation, I added some advanced features (like 96K of RAM > and 31K of port memory) to the original specifications. Details on how to get it as well as some screen shots are on my homepage > http://hrastprogrammer.tripod.com... There are few variations of HP-42X according to the various calculator > configurations and different user needs. These are: HP42X48: The FINAL version for HP-48GX with a 128K RAM card in Slot1 and >=128K RAM card in Slot2. Uses one RAM card for the HP-42/Emulator ROM and > another for the HP-42/Emulator RAM. HP42X48D: The DEMO version for HP-48GX with only one >=128K RAM card in > either Slot1 or Slot2. Uses RAM card for the HP-42/Emulator ROM and main > calculator RAM for the HP-42/Emulator RAM. Destroys some parts of main > calculator RAM! HP42X48L: The FINAL version for HP-48GX with only one >=128K RAM card in > either Slot1 or Slot2. Uses RAM card for the HP-42/Emulator ROM and Port0 > for the HP-42/Emulator RAM. HP42X48S: The FINAL version for HP-48SX with a 128K RAM card in Port1 and > another 128K RAM card in Port2. Uses one RAM card for the HP-42/Emulator ROM > and another for the HP-42/Emulator RAM. HP42X49: The FINAL version for HP-49G with both banks of Port1 empty. Uses > one bank for the HP-42/Emulator ROM and another for the HP-42/Emulator RAM > (uses the whole Port1). HP42X49D: The DEMO version for HP-49G with only one bank of Port1 empty. > Uses this bank for the HP-42/Emulator ROM and and main calculator RAM for > the HP-42/Emulator RAM. Destroys some parts of main calculator RAM! HP42X49L: The FINAL version for HP-49G with only one bank of Port1 empty. > Uses this bank for the HP-42/Emulator ROM and Port0 for the HP-42/Emulator > RAM. This version is especially suitable for use with HP-41X because it > allows you to have both HP-41X and HP-42X installed together (into Port1). I am planning one maintenance release of HP-42X for october. It will contain > fixes for all bugs which will (eventually) be discovered as well as the > following commands: SAVE for exporting the HP-42 program to HP-48/49, > LOAD for importing the HP-42 program from HP-48/49, > SAVEP for saving the HP-42 program to port memory, > LOADP for loading the HP-42 program from port memory, > PURGE for deleting the HP-42 program from port memory and > CATP for displaying all programs contained in the port memory. Registered users will get the maintenance release for free when it will be > released. ==== Nice Pictures! I would like to see the display on the left side, for righthanded, or on the right side for lefthanded people. For that it is a must that keyboard itself is a module that DETACHES and can be mounted upside down. Next step would be that you can buy QWERTY keybord, and replace Calc keybord -> you get a palmtop! (mounted horizontallly along the longer side of the screen) I am an amateur designer, and I love HP Calculators, so I decided to > dream a little bit and to create a dream calculator, so here it is. > Check it up and send me your comments regarding the project and the > design. http://www.angelfire.com/wizard/raven7/Home.html Interesting... We (at the time) did have a flip-like calculator design. The main issues > that raised with a flip design was the strength and resistance of the whole > lot. > The screen is VERY close to the edge, so any drops would probably break it. > There is also the problem of the screen holding in place by itself. The > weight can't be too high either as the calcultor would not stand by itself, > it would fell due to the weight of the screen. Another problem with having some keys on the upper part is that you can't > press the keys while the calculator (if we can still call it that way) is on > a desk, you need to hold the screen with your other hand I doubt a 20minutes charge would be enough with a NiMh-kind batteries. You > would need a Li-Io to have such a short recharge time, which raise the issue > of heat when you're charging the unit with the battery being non removable. > If you check a bit, you will see a log of digital cameras recalled for > exactly this problem. Regarding the OS, thanks for mentionning my name, if any projects like this > starts I would surely be glad to participate There are a lot of issues relating to mechanical engineering... good luck in > your tries ==== If anyone is interested I am selling both books on half.com they have never been used and are in exhalent condition. I am also selling my hp49 calc (id94202887) it is a new replacement calc from hp barely used. it comes with 2 cases, cable to connect to computer, both manuals and the pocket guide, also a costome made padded crash proof case I made from a sears craftsman tool case I got the idea from a rev post. anyway its all there if u are interested ==== What gives??? Forrest ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- (reason: 550 Invalid recipient: ) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to gateway.attbi.com.: >> RCPT To: <<< 550 Invalid recipient: 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown >If anyone is interested I am selling both books on half.com they have never >been used and are in exhalent condition. I am also selling my hp49 calc >(id94202887) it is a new replacement calc from hp barely used. it comes with >2 cases, cable to connect to computer, both manuals and the pocket guide, >also a costome made padded crash proof case I made from a sears craftsman >tool case I got the idea from a rev post. anyway its all there if u are >interested > ==== I already said that the next marathon would be the Calculus Marathon and I already had started working on it, but I noticed that one can understand better Calculus when one has already understood limits and limits can be understood better if one has knowledge of series and sequences. So instead of publishing the calculus marathon now, I decided to bring you the sequences, series and limits marathon first, so that we can build calculus on important things that we deal with now. I already uploaded the document to hpcalc, but it will be available when Eric does the next update, so if I hope you enjoy it, though this time it is much programming, as the HP49G has not many capabilities for sets, sequences and series built in. (At least not those which are needed by this marathon.) In case you discover something that goes wrong, I would be glad to hear from you and try to correct the programs. Sorry that it took so long until it was ready, but it was hard and I had vacations. (Nick has that too ;-)) Greetings, Nick. P.S.: BTW, the programs that come with the marathon show many many things while they are working, and they keep flasÇhing messages and display formulae and the like. Do you think, the greek gov. could take the programs for games? ;-) ==== > P.S.: BTW, the programs that come with the marathon show many many > things while they are working, and they keep flas?hing messages and > display formulae and the like. Do you think, the greek gov. could take > the programs for games? ;-) Hehe, I don't know about that, but I know that my 49G is outlawed for having Sokoban, and my Nokia 3330 (which, BTW, rules) for having Snake etc. It is, however, always nice seeing in which innovative ways a Parliament member can ridicule itself; trully creative. -- Al. Andreou . ``We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainity.''. . . . . . 42 ==== > P.S.: BTW, the programs that come with the marathon show many many > things while they are working, and they keep flas?hing messages and > display formulae and the like. Do you think, the greek gov. could take > the programs for games? ;-) Hehe, I don't know about that, but I know that my 49G is outlawed > for having Sokoban, and my Nokia 3330 (which, BTW, rules) for having > Snake etc. It is, however, always nice seeing in which innovative ways a Parliament > member can ridicule itself; trully creative. LOL! Just wonde how/when/what Harris will say ;-) Greetings, Nick. ==== I just aquired a HP49G and am diligently learning how to use it. One thing that is driving me nuts is that I'm trying to graph simple functions such as a Sin(x) or even an equation of 2x+1. What's wrong is that x has suddenly taken on a value of -6.5 and I can't figure out why or how to stop it. Any quick recommendations would be deeply appreciated before my frustration takes me over the edge. ==== Nevermind. I was being brain-dead. > I just aquired a HP49G and am diligently learning how to use it. One thing that is driving me nuts is that I'm trying to graph simple > functions such as a Sin(x) or even an equation of 2x+1. What's wrong is > that x has suddenly taken on a value of -6.5 and I can't figure out why or > how to stop it. Any quick recommendations would be deeply appreciated before my frustration > takes me over the edge. ==== to program it (in sysRPL) but the problem is that there is no help for the sysRPL of the HP40. I tried reading .82Programming in System RPLé but this is a HP48 manual. I also have the entrypoints list for the HP40 but there are still a lot of differences between hp40 and 48. There are some commands in hp40 that dont exist in hp48 (or have different names), and there are commands in hp48 that don't exist int hp40 (or they are also called differently or used in other way). I would realy like to know if there are any resources on hp40 sysRPL programming becouse the hp48 book was usefull but it isn't enough. Help me please! ==== > ... I'm still wondering that one needs so many key assignments that > he/she doesn't remember them. > On the HP-48, I have a special CST menu with one and a half pages, > and all utilities I need only a few key strokes away. Raymond, using CST instead of key-assignments wouldn't help the normal user. How does he then invoke the various standard assignment of shifted or non-shifted menu keys? IMHO, a serious user of the HP48 (and the more of the 49) cannot live without clever key assignments. Since my 49 was stolen and I'm unsuccesful in trying to buy a new China made HP49 - no good hints in this NG :-( I returned to my 48GX, with pleasure I must confess ... I just finished a new edition of the 48-Keyman (vs. 9.2002). A fundamental addition is a key-recorder. A record executes also keys from closed environements like the interactive stack. Thus, it is no problem anymore to program the UP-arrow key in such a way that if UP is longhold one drives at once to the top stack level - just by collecting the key sequence [UP][RS][UP]. Very economical if the stack is large. The 48-keyman comes with a new file TopKeys. And maybe key-muffles like you will eventually be convinced :-) Since hpcalc.org is inactive at present, get it from ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/hp48/keys - Wolfgang ==== > IMHO, a serious user of the HP48 (and the more of the 49) > cannot live without clever key assignments. So I guess I've never been a serious user, as I've almost never used the USER keyboard mode. ==== > IMHO, a serious user of the HP48 (and the more of the 49) > cannot live without clever key assignments. > So I guess I've never been a serious user, as I've almost never used the > USER keyboard mode. ...because the hp49 keyboard has been designed by you for you?! Jo-king :-P I participated in it as well ;-) But it's true I've *never* used the USER keyboard on either 48 or 49, personally. To each his own, Gerald. ==== > IMHO, a serious user of the HP48 (and the more of the 49) > cannot live without clever key assignments. > So I guess I've never been a serious user, as I've almost never used the > USER keyboard mode. Indeed, what you guess seems to be true; and in this respect you're in best company with my friend Raymond Hellstern :-) For me it is obvious that you never seriously worked with the calculator but with emulators (as does Raymond who uses his Hp41 if he's forced to do some calculations). Why I guess so? Compare the Interactive stack menus, for instance. True, you added some useful stuff for very large stacks like GOTO, but if you would have ever been seriously working on the HP48, you would not have changed the clever order the 48 interactive stack menu options but added new ones just at the end of the menu. And you would probably not have changed the very ergometric position of the 48-ENTER key (not talking on the rest of the keyboard). For users who like a rich keyboard like P. Karp and others I created Keyman. Why don't you load this and the new TopKeys from my HP48 site? You'll convince yourself how useful are the righshift-hold menu keys for quoting, etc. None of the 24 assignments proposed by TopKeys does interfere with the standard function of a key. - Wolfgang ==== > For me it is obvious that you never seriously > worked with the calculator but with emulators > (as does Raymond who uses his Hp41 if he's > forced to do some calculations). Why I guess > so? Compare the Interactive stack menus, for > instance. True, you added some useful stuff > for very large stacks like GOTO, but if you > would have ever been seriously working on the > HP48, you would not have changed the clever > order the 48 interactive stack menu options but > added new ones just at the end of the menu. And that's where you are entirely wrong... I've started to work with emulators at HP, and about one year after I joined there, simply because there wasn't any descent emulators at all. You also seem to forget that the interactive stack comes straight from the programmed ENTIRELY on the HP48 itself using the StringWriter editor also program ENTIRELY on the HP48G (started on the HP48S). Never used any pcs or emulators to program my HP48 (didn't even have a computer) So you should revisit your guesses.. ==== > For me it is obvious that you never seriously > worked with the calculator but with emulators > (as does Raymond who uses his Hp41 if he's > forced to do some calculations). Why I guess > so? Compare the Interactive stack menus, for > instance. True, you added some useful stuff > for very large stacks like GOTO, but if you > would have ever been seriously working on the > HP48, you would not have changed the clever > order the 48 interactive stack menu options but > added new ones just at the end of the menu. And that's where you are entirely wrong... > I've started to work with emulators at HP, and about one year after I joined > there, simply because there wasn't any descent emulators at all. > You also seem to forget that the interactive stack comes straight from the > programmed ENTIRELY on the HP48 itself using the StringWriter editor also > program ENTIRELY on the HP48G (started on the HP48S). > Never used any pcs or emulators to program my HP48 (didn't even have a > computer) So you should revisit your guesses.. not at all. Most people programmed in the early 90th at the real 48, at least they made hardtests of their creations on the real 48. I'm talking here on the HP49. Remember that many users switched from the 48 to the 49 *without* having the slightest idea on Metakernel. And these (including myself) had to get used, e.g., to the new, less intuitive appl menu of the interactive stack. For you this was no problem because you used Metakernel the keyboard, one should compare the 49 with the 48 *in its original state* only. Clearly, the above is perhaps not an essential issue for an advanced user. The 49 has so many new features that will last years to govern them all. A surprisingly seldom mentioned advantage over the 48 is the display of upper- and lowercase letters in menus. These show at least 5 letters of any long name, not so on the 48. IMHO, this machine can compete with the HP49 only with two additional RAM cards in the ports, with plenty of interface & OS software (not talking on Math tools). - Wolfgang ==== Wolfgang Rautenberg escribi.97 en el mensaje > IMHO, this machine (hp 48GX) can compete with the HP49 only with > two additional RAM cards in the ports, with plenty of > interface & OS software (not talking on Math tools). - Wolfgang This is my view, too. If I had a 49, I'll probably be happy... but with my 48 with 1280kb, MK, Erable, Alg48 and YEARS of my own programs and CAS updates, keyboard, menus, etc, etc, I don't think I will buy a 49... Really, this machine competes with the 49 ==== > This is my view, too. > If I had a 49, I'll probably be happy... but with my 48 with 1280kb, MK, > Erable, Alg48 and YEARS of my own programs and CAS updates, keyboard, menus, > etc, etc, I don't think I will buy a 49... > Really, this machine competes with the 49 For sure, but at what cost ?? Your set-up is worth hundreds more than a HP49G... ==== > For sure, but at what cost ?? > Your set-up is worth hundreds more than a HP49G... > HP RAM cards are veeeery expensive (I have one of 128kb) but there are cards from Klotz, Cynox that have reasonable prices... hate it...) ==== > This is my view, too. > If I had a 49, I'll probably be happy... but with my 48 with 1280kb, MK, > Erable, Alg48 and YEARS of my own programs and CAS updates, keyboard, > menus, > etc, etc, I don't think I will buy a 49... > Really, this machine competes with the 49 > For sure, but at what cost ?? > Your set-up is worth hundreds more than a HP49G... Not necessarily. If I add a 1Mb card, I'll have the same hardware setup as R Lion, and that would would bring the cost of my setup (the 48GX and two RAM cards) to US $222.27. That's not hundreds more. Plus, it has expansion slots... and an IR port... and plastic keys whose labels don't wear off... and a big ENTER key in the right place... and a screen that doesn't display rainbows... and it looks like a serious engineering tool rather than like a teenager's toy. (I still think it's not quite as attractive as the HP-41, but it's far more attractive than the 49. The keyboard has nearly the same feel as the 41, too.) -- Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== Seen: > you would probably not have changed the > very ergometric position of the 48-ENTER key Unless your ergometric marketing department wanted you to make it look like a TI product, which now it does ;) I wonder why TI never got the idea of making things like HP, though? Gresham's law rules again. http://paws.wcu.edu/mulligan/www/gresham.html The course our city runs is the same towards men and money. She has true and worthy sons. She has fine new gold and ancient silver, coins untouched with alloys, each well minted, tested each and ringing clear. Yet we never use them! Others pass from hand to hand, sorry brass just struck last week and branded with a wretched brand. So with men we know for upright, blameless lives and noble names. These we spurn for men of brass. [Aristophanes The Frogs 405 B.C.] http://www.mum.edu . ==== Wolfgang Rautenberg escribi.97 en el mensaje > For users who like a rich keyboard like P. Karp > and others I created Keyman. Your Keyman (also your Unitman) lets me have MY 48 Keyboard. own menu system, etc. USR mode is always set in my calculator. ==== Sorry to hear you can't find a chinese model replacement for your HP49. Here in Australia the HP agent is still selling HP49's. The last I knew they were chinese models but this may have changed. Would be very international to buy an American calculator made in China from Australia for Germany, perhaps the UN could help. Stephen N > ... I'm still wondering that one needs so many key assignments that > he/she doesn't remember them. > On the HP-48, I have a special CST menu with one and a half pages, > and all utilities I need only a few key strokes away. Raymond, using CST instead of key-assignments wouldn't > help the normal user. How does he then invoke the various > standard assignment of shifted or non-shifted menu keys? > IMHO, a serious user of the HP48 (and the more of the 49) > cannot live without clever key assignments. Since my 49 was stolen and I'm unsuccesful in trying to > buy a new China made HP49 - no good hints in this NG :-( > I returned to my 48GX, with pleasure I must confess ... I just finished a new edition of the 48-Keyman (vs. 9.2002). > A fundamental addition is a key-recorder. A record executes > also keys from closed environements like the interactive stack. > Thus, it is no problem anymore to program the UP-arrow key in > such a way that if UP is longhold one drives at once to the top > stack level - just by collecting the key sequence [UP][RS][UP]. > Very economical if the stack is large. The 48-keyman comes with a new file TopKeys. And maybe > key-muffles like you will eventually be convinced :-) > Since hpcalc.org is inactive at present, get it from > ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/hp48/keys - Wolfgang ==== How about releasing a 41-fied version of the Keyman?! Some technique would reveal the keyassignment. Say double-click and double-click&hold for normal shift and shift&hold - respectively. I would use this KEYMAN Xmas edition not to have more keylevels, but to remember the assignments, which would be seen on the status area (or a simple ). PS: Can I now have keyassignments in my HP 48GX in ANY Environment?? X > A fundamental addition is a key-recorder. A record executes > also keys from closed environements like the interactive stack. > Thus, it is no problem anymore to program the UP-arrow key in > such a way that if UP is longhold one drives at once to the top > stack level - just by collecting the key sequence [UP][RS][UP]. > Very economical if the stack is large. X ==== > PS: Can I now have keyassignments in my HP 48GX > in ANY Environment?? One can assign a key in such a way that it does different things depending on whether in default mode, in edit mode, in PRG mode and in Immediate entry mode. However, it is impossible to assign a key to do still other things in closed environements like the graphic mode, the interactive stack, etc. This is impossible since these environements are Parametrized Outer Loops which have their own complete control on the keyboard. These remarks hold for both, the 48 and the 49. Bye, Wolfgang ==== Then I challenge you Professor Rautenberg to show you true talents (which I don't posses) and give us EQWKEYMAN, MTRWKEYMAN,.. Is it possible to hack into system that way? system hooks (like FILER) to us all. > PS: Can I now have keyassignments in my HP 48GX > in ANY Environment?? One can assign a key in such a way that it does > different things depending on whether in default mode, > in edit mode, in PRG mode and in Immediate entry mode. > However, it is impossible to assign a key to do still > other things in closed environements like the graphic > mode, the interactive stack, etc. This is impossible > since these environements are Parametrized Outer Loops > which have their own complete control on the keyboard. These remarks hold for both, the 48 and the 49. Bye, Wolfgang ==== Heyo- I'm looking for any sort of programmable RPN emulator (15c, 41series, 32sii, anything) for windows CE machines. Specifically, wince 1.0 on 320LX, wince 2.0 on 320LX, wince 2.11 on Jornada 6xx, and Windows CE 2000 on Jornada 720. -- while E < ==== EV41 emulator: http://www.hp41.org GNU EMU48 (supports all graphical calculators from HP): http://personales.ya.com/leobueno/ There are other simple calculators that support RPN for WINCE, it's the case of CoolCalc There are many other FreeWare RPN calculators available, you can search at http://ppcf.mklabs.com/ or in any one of the usual places. Paulo Pinheiro > Heyo- I'm looking for any sort of programmable RPN emulator (15c, 41series, > 32sii, anything) for windows CE machines. > Specifically, wince 1.0 on 320LX, wince 2.0 on 320LX, wince 2.11 on Jornada > 6xx, and Windows CE 2000 on Jornada 720. ==== > EV41 emulator: http://www.hp41.org > GNU EMU48 (supports all graphical calculators from HP): > http://personales.ya.com/leobueno/ > There are other simple calculators that support RPN for WINCE, it's > the case of CoolCalc 'm having trouble with this. Perhpas I should have been more clear. I have a 320LX with WinCE 1.0, one with WinCE 2.0, a jornada 720, and access to a 680. None of these are Pocket PC Windows machines. This is dificult to explain. The machines I mention all have Keyboards and long horizontal, short vertical displays. Many bits of code made to run on Pocket PC machines will work on Handheld PC machines. I am trying, perhaps I will get one of these to function properly. > There are many other FreeWare RPN calculators available, you can > search at http://ppcf.mklabs.com/ or in any one of the usual places. Paulo Pinheiro > Heyo- > > I'm looking for any sort of programmable RPN emulator (15c, 41series, > 32sii, anything) for windows CE machines. > Specifically, wince 1.0 on 320LX, wince 2.0 on 320LX, wince 2.11 on > Jornada 6xx, and Windows CE 2000 on Jornada 720. -- while E < ==== OK, I really don't know much about the differences between HPC and PPC, because some times the programs work in both machines. The program EMU48 works in WinCE >=2.0, because it runs 'perfectly' in a Compaq C-800 (MIPS, WinCE 2.0), and applying an horizontal skin it fits quite well in that display, letting you run HP48/49/38,... http://personales.ya.com/leobueno/ So it should be no problem with the Jornada 720 There are XPander http://www.saltire.com/xpander.html but I think it is PPC only even if it runs in MIPS and SH3. You have CoolCalc http://www.applian.com/hpc/CoolCalc/ that works in HPC too, don't know if is programmable, Paulo Pinheiro EV41 emulator: http://www.hp41.org > GNU EMU48 (supports all graphical calculators from HP): > http://personales.ya.com/leobueno/ > There are other simple calculators that support RPN for WINCE, it's > the case of CoolCalc > 'm having trouble with this. Perhpas I should have been more clear. I have a 320LX with WinCE 1.0, one with WinCE 2.0, a jornada 720, and > access to a 680. None of these are Pocket PC Windows machines. This is > dificult to explain. The machines I mention all have Keyboards and long > horizontal, short vertical displays. Many bits of code made to run on > Pocket PC machines will work on Handheld PC machines. I am trying, perhaps > I will get one of these to function properly. > There are many other FreeWare RPN calculators available, you can > search at http://ppcf.mklabs.com/ or in any one of the usual places. Paulo Pinheiro > Heyo- > > I'm looking for any sort of programmable RPN emulator (15c, 41series, > 32sii, anything) for windows CE machines. > Specifically, wince 1.0 on 320LX, wince 2.0 on 320LX, wince 2.11 on > Jornada 6xx, and Windows CE 2000 on Jornada 720. ==== Or use Calc 98 get it at http://www.calculator.org/download.html it can do RPN and it runs on Windows 9x,NT,2k,XP and PPC JP > OK, I really don't know much about the differences between HPC and > PPC, because some times the programs work in both machines. The program EMU48 works in WinCE >=2.0, because it runs 'perfectly' in > a Compaq C-800 (MIPS, WinCE 2.0), and applying an horizontal skin it > fits quite well in that display, letting you run HP48/49/38,... > http://personales.ya.com/leobueno/ So it should be no problem with the > Jornada 720 There are XPander http://www.saltire.com/xpander.html but I think it > is PPC only even if it runs in MIPS and SH3. You have CoolCalc http://www.applian.com/hpc/CoolCalc/ that works in > HPC too, don't know if is programmable, Paulo Pinheiro EV41 emulator: http://www.hp41.org > GNU EMU48 (supports all graphical calculators from HP): > http://personales.ya.com/leobueno/ > There are other simple calculators that support RPN for WINCE, it's > the case of CoolCalc > 'm having trouble with this. Perhpas I should have been more clear. I have a 320LX with WinCE 1.0, one with WinCE 2.0, a jornada 720, and > access to a 680. None of these are Pocket PC Windows machines. This is > dificult to explain. The machines I mention all have Keyboards and long > horizontal, short vertical displays. Many bits of code made to run on > Pocket PC machines will work on Handheld PC machines. I am trying, perhaps > I will get one of these to function properly. > There are many other FreeWare RPN calculators available, you can > search at http://ppcf.mklabs.com/ or in any one of the usual places. Paulo Pinheiro > Heyo- > I'm looking for any sort of programmable RPN emulator (15c, 41series, > 32sii, anything) for windows CE machines. > Specifically, wince 1.0 on 320LX, wince 2.0 on 320LX, wince 2.11 on > Jornada 6xx, and Windows CE 2000 on Jornada 720. > ==== Paulo Pinheiro schrieb im Newsbeitrag > [..] > Heyo- I'm looking for any sort of programmable RPN emulator (15c, 41series, > 32sii, anything) for windows CE machines. > Specifically, wince 1.0 on 320LX, wince 2.0 on 320LX, wince 2.11 on Jornada > 6xx, and Windows CE 2000 on Jornada 720. By the way, the Jornada 690 has Omnisolve built-in. This is a multi-mode calculator. It can be switched to RPN, and in this mode it's a simulation of a calc near the 11C, with (at least) one difference: the arithmetic keys (+,-,*,/) are not in the same order as on the real 11C. Otherwise, it's real nice. The only drawback: It's not programmable;-) Raymond ==== > EV41 emulator: http://www.hp41.org > GNU EMU48 (supports all graphical calculators from HP): > http://personales.ya.com/leobueno/ > There are other simple calculators that support RPN for WINCE, it's > the case of CoolCalc > There are many other FreeWare RPN calculators available, you can > search at http://ppcf.mklabs.com/ or in any one of the usual places. Paulo Pinheiro > I'm looking for any sort of programmable RPN emulator (15c, 41series, > 32sii, anything) for windows CE machines. > Specifically, wince 1.0 on 320LX, wince 2.0 on 320LX, wince 2.11 on Jornada > 6xx, and Windows CE 2000 on Jornada 720. New skin for emu48CE can discharge them in my it paginates www.geocities.com/jaimezacalcs/hp/pc/skinhp3-4x.htm www.geocities.com/jaimezacalcs/hp/pc/emuhp3-4x.htm Jaime Meza ==== Sorry, but I can't find the product series function on my HP49. P(i^2,i,1,100)=1^2 * 2^2 * 3^2 * 4^2 ... * 100^2 I'm not sure wether product series are the right words. Its like the summation series but with muliplication. Can anybody give me a hint? thanks toralf ==== > Sorry, but I can't find the product series function on my HP49. P(i^2,i,1,100)=1^2 * 2^2 * 3^2 * 4^2 ... * 100^2 I'm not sure wether product series are the right words. > Its like the summation series but with muliplication. These is dark-side thoughts. Put them away! On a more serious note, this function does not exist on the HP49G. The TI word for it is Product function. You can emulate it with a user-defined function on your HP49G like this: << -> a b c d << a b 'b' = SUBST 1 c d FOR b OVER EVAL * NEXT NIP >> 'P' STO Now 'P(X^2,X,1,4)' EVAL will return 576. In RPN terms, the syntax is 'X^2' 'X' 1 4 P -> 576. Mind you that this does not provide the symbolic part of such a function - for example P(EXP(X^2)/2,X,1,Y) won't be evaluated like on the TIs (in the HP program above, the limits have to be numeric). ==== Correct, I mean the product function from the TIs. Are there any reasons why the HP49 don't have this function? Toralf >Sorry, but I can't find the product series function on my HP49. > P(i^2,i,1,100)=1^2 * 2^2 * 3^2 * 4^2 ... * 100^2 >I'm not sure wether product series are the right words. >Its like the summation series but with muliplication. > These is dark-side thoughts. Put them away! On a more serious note, this function does not exist on the HP49G. The TI > word for it is Product function. You can emulate it with a user-defined > function on your HP49G like this: << -> a b c d << a b 'b' = SUBST 1 c d FOR b OVER EVAL * NEXT NIP >> 'P' > STO Now 'P(X^2,X,1,4)' EVAL will return 576. In RPN terms, the syntax is 'X^2' > 'X' 1 4 P -> 576. Mind you that this does not provide the symbolic part of such a function - > for example P(EXP(X^2)/2,X,1,Y) won't be evaluated like on the TIs (in the > HP program above, the limits have to be numeric). ==== > Are there any reasons why the HP49 don't have this function? Because Bernard Parisse didn't code it. There have obviously not been too high a demand for this function, hence it was never introduced. I wanted it, ;-) - that makes three persons over 2-3 years. I postulate that the symbolic output of the Product function is very very rarely used - even in school. This means that the short program I provided earlier will be sufficient 99.99...9% of the time. It can be optimized heavily for speed, but I don't feel like doing it. You can though, as an exercise :-) ==== Ok, I unterstand ... << 1 SEQ piLIST > piLIST => [MTH] => [LIST] => [piLIST] SEQ => LS [PRG] => [LIST] => [PROC]=> [NXT] => [SEQ] 4: x^2 3: x 2: 1 1: 4 => 1: 576 Toralf >Are there any reasons why the HP49 don't have this function? > Because Bernard Parisse didn't code it. There have obviously not been too > high a demand for this function, hence it was never introduced. I wanted it, > ;-) - that makes three persons over 2-3 years. I postulate that the symbolic output of the Product function is very very > rarely used - even in school. This means that the short program I provided > earlier will be sufficient 99.99...9% of the time. It can be optimized > heavily for speed, but I don't feel like doing it. You can though, as an > exercise :-) ==== > << 1 SEQ piLIST > A beautiful sulotion as always from John, albeit a little slower. ==== Yes, JHM hint is beautiful too (and small) but your proposal is also very nice ;-) (and a little faster) - END topic Toralf ><< 1 SEQ piLIST > > A beautiful sulotion as always from John, albeit a little slower. ==== I'm not sure if this really counts as a series. It looks like (100!)^2. A coomon product series is a geometric progression, which is the sum of terms, each term made up from a product with a common ratio. What you have described is not what would normally be described as a series, IMHO. Anyone else care to chime in? > Sorry, but I can't find the product series function on my HP49. P(i^2,i,1,100)=1^2 * 2^2 * 3^2 * 4^2 ... * 100^2 I'm not sure wether product series are the right words. > Its like the summation series but with muliplication. Can anybody give me a hint? > ==== http://jewel.morgan.edu/~rcobo/cgg/hpcase.jpg it is very strong. it can be locked with a padlock too. > http://www.watertightcase.com/3000series.html it shpuld work > they are also sold in the UK > ==== > I use a metallic school children's pencil case to hold my HP's. > They fit perfectly with a minimum of slack. > Some foam and even the Finnish post-office can not destroy my HP. yes, but it doesn't float! just kidding, he he. the real test is in my school backpack. if it survives there, then it is made of good stuff. ==== They sat down at the process table to a top of form feed of fiche and chips and a bucket of Baudot. Mini was in conversa- tional mode and expanded on ambi- guous arguments while Micro gave occational acknowledgements although, in real time, he was analysing the shortest and least critical path to her entry point. He finally settled on the old would you like to see my benchmark subroutine, but Mini was again one step ahead. ==== I recently acquired a ID947 model HP49G calculator and have heard about problems with the older Indonesian HP49 calculators - primarily: easily-scratched screen, rainbow effects, and text wearing off on the buttons. Are there any screenshots on what the rainbow effect should look like? I have a very minor upside down rainbow that is visible in the upper center portion of the screen. It can only be seen directly in daylight. I don't have any scratches on the screen cover - I have taken fairly good care of the calculator. Unfortunately, there does seem to be some dust collecting under the screen, and I'm not sure how to get rid of it. Do I have one of the infamous older Indonesian models? I have also heard of problems with the newer Chinese HP49G models. It looks like I lose either way! Any advice is appreciated. -- Titus Barik (barik@ieee.org) ==== X > have a very minor upside down rainbow that is visible in the upper > center portion of the screen. It can only be seen directly in daylight. That is it. Me too - in direct sunlight. Don't worry - it's not bad at all. > I don't have any scratches on the screen cover - I have taken fairly > good care of the calculator. Unfortunately, there does seem to be some > dust collecting under the screen, and I'm not sure how to get rid of it. I don't have scratches either. I left the plastic sheet on forever! :-) > Do I have one of the infamous older Indonesian models? Yes! And I think that only some models have the key paint wearing off. I think that you're ok with your calc like I have been with mine: 3 years!! > I have also heard of problems with the newer Chinese HP49G models. It Bull....! > looks like I lose either way! Looks like you won already - either way. > Any advice is appreciated. Oh! The dust?! > Titus Barik (barik@ieee.org) Veli-Pekka ==== > Do I have one of the infamous older Indonesian models? > Yes! And I think that only some models have the key paint wearing off. I discovered what was causing the paint to wear off on some of the keys (f6 and ENTER) on my HP49. It had to do with taking off and putting on the darn platic cover! If I am not careful on how I do this, the edge of the cover rubs on some of the keys with the ones at the corners of the keyboard being more prone to be hit. Now I try to take off and insert the cover with the edge of it being slightly at an upward angle so it stays away from the keys. I you do it slowly it is easy to see whether you are hitting any keys or not. Santos ==== >>Does anyone else venture to try it on a 49G? >Oh man, perhaps during weekend, but I just can't wait 3.4 hours until >it can be used again. I can't promise to try it, but I promise to try >to try it. >Ok, looking forward to your results, if any. 10779.744 sec for 9999! 2 hours 59 minutes 39.74 sec > on my hp49g version 1.19-6 That's still quite a bit slower than a 40g which is 2 hours and 52 min. Maybe libraries and all the extra loaded stuff slow down the 49g a little bit? How long would this take on a 48gx? -- Al ==== Believe it or not, it took 12275.4935 to get the result on the HP 49G. >That's quite a big difference, 3.40 hours compared to 2h 52min. > > What? Why is that? Has the HP49G to do additional things while > calculating 9999! ? I have no idea, that's why I am waiting for someone to confirm this. It > cannot be possible that a little 40g can beat the 49g at any calculation, > especially with such a time difference. >Does anyone else venture to try it on a 49G? > > Oh man, perhaps during weekend, but I just can't wait 3.4 hours until > it can be used again. I can't promise to try it, but I promise to try > to try it. Ok, looking forward to your results, if any. 10779.744 sec for 9999! 2 hours 59 minutes 39.74 sec > on my hp49g version 1.19-6 > Approx. the same like on my HP49G: 10910.632 seconds - that is about 3 hours and 2 minutes. Greetings, Nick. ==== Just a math question. How do you know that the log of a number equals the number of digits in that number? Does this work in every case? Derek Young ==== <56f94943.0302021040.5bc75be@posting.google.com>, > Just a math question. How do you know that the log of a number equals > the number of digits in that number? Does this work in every case? Derek Young LOG(1) = 0 LOG(10) = 1 LOG(100) = 2 Etc. In fact, 1 + FLOOR(LOG(N)) is the number of digits in non-negative integer N. ==== > Using Logarithms I get: >a) for (((((9^9)^9)^9)^9)^9): >9^5 * Log(9) = 56 347.1 ... which means 56348 digits. >b) for 9^(9^9): >(9^9) * Log(9) = 369 693 099.6 ... which means 369 693 100 digits. Ok I did it a different way, I did Log(((((9^9)^9)^9)^9)^9) which > gave me 1.297439140E5, and Log(9^(9^9)) which gave me 8.512498201E8. I even did it the same same way as you did above and got the same > answers. I should have though of that, but it was like 3 am. I used Derive 5, btw. I should try it with Maple or something. > Why are my results so much different from yours? I don't understand Derive. It gives me 2.197224577 for log(9) when the answer is obviously 0.9542425094. Why is log the same as ln? Do base 10 logs no longer exist in Derive, only natural logs? Anyway, I don't think I'll be keeping Derive. It is nice in some ways, quite easy to use and all, but it feels like a TI... if you know what I mean. -- Al ==== >I don't understand Derive. It gives me 2.197224577 for log(9) when >the answer is obviously 0.9542425094. Why is log the same as ln? >Do base 10 logs no longer exist in Derive, only natural logs? Try LOG(x,10) to get base 10 logs. The default, if you omit the base, is e. -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== What font size are you using on your HP49G for: stack? editor? menues? EQW? I am using the 4*5 minifont for all. I have no idea wether this applies to the other HPs as well, so answer at will. Michael ==== What font size are you using on your HP49G for: > stack? > editor? > menues? > EQW? I am using the 4*5 minifont for all. I have no idea wether this applies to the other HPs as well, so answer at will. Michael I used to just have mini-font on the stack. After I got used to mini-font, I decided to have everything in mini-font. That way I can see more information at a time. --CS ==== >>What font size are you using on your HP49G for: >>stack? >>editor? >>menues? >>EQW? >>I am using the 4*5 minifont for all. >>I have no idea wether this applies to the other HPs as well, so answer at will. >> >>Michael > I used to just have mini-font on the stack. After I got used to > mini-font, I decided to have everything in mini-font. That way I can > see more information at a time. I'm using font size 8 to everything, because I think the display is pretty poor and in bad ligthning it's not easy to read small numbers and formulas on a bad display. I've also tried smaller fonts, but didn't like it. Martin J. ==== > I'm currently trying to set up an alarm on a new > HP-4G+. designated time, but the calculator's buzzer doesn't sound. I've set flag 57 correctly, according to the manual. Have I > missed something? Should I suspect a hardware fault? > -- the warning buzzer works just fine. Perhaps you're clearing flag 57 instead of flag -57? Perhaps you're setting flag -57 instead of clearing it? That's all I can think of... having made those same mistakes myself. -Joe- ==== Strange-to-relate, unbeknownst to me flag -57, & not 57, was the relevant flag. Fortunately I was selecting the feature via the flag menu in modes, & so was insulated from my mistake -- well, that one :) using '' rather than ; in HP parlance: my appointment alarm became a control alarm, & hence didn't beep. -- sq Distribution: world ==== I am superseeding my previous reply with a slightly changed version because Eric asked me to use www.hpcalc.org for references, not ca-on.hpcalc.org as I accidentally did. s> Is there something that can simplify (kg^2*m^4)/(A^3*s^6) to Wb/F without s> thinking too much of what unit to convert to? Converting to SI base units s> is easy, but sometimes trying to 'simplify' certain units proves difficult. s> There has to be around this, no? Yes, there are several libraries for this on hpcalc.org: SIunits by Rub.8en P.8erez is excellent. It does a fully automatic job, but cannot be configured. So if you want speciific outcomes for specific units, it may or may not work. For your example above, it works. http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1619 XUNITS by Luis Morales Boisset allows to set your preferred units, and also tried combinations of these preferred units. http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4651 Utool is a library with many tools for Units. One of the commands is USIMP which needs to be configured, but gives you full control over the outcome. http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4612 There is also a UserRPL program for this task by John H Meyers http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=2911 Hope this helps - Carsten ==== >I have both of Urroz's books, in electronic format only, and have printed >>them myself. Over the two volumes there is something like 700+ pages. > do you have Kazaa?? Goddamnit! You should be supporting Urroz for doing a good job! I'm a poor student, but I've just bought the book online, because I've > now heard too many good things about his books and I want to support the > man for doing a good job. If you're interested in the book, then you should go buy it. That's my > opinion. ps: I can give you a feedback, when I'm finished with volume 1, if you > want it. Martin J. It was a joke (just in case). Send me the feedback on the book asap please, gonna get the hard copy if its good. [AC] ==== Excuse me for the off topic isse. Reading the local paper, regarding yesterday's tragedy, I saw a photograph of the crew, where Mr Anderson was with a calculator's picture on his chest (shirt). Did anyone else notice the familiar image published on his shirt ? (meaning it looks pretty much like the 48GX, doesn't it) only a routinary procedure. The truth is that every time is an epic. Anyhow, my sympathy to all the crew families, -- Carlos Lacroze Buenos Aires, Argentina ==== > Reading the local paper, regarding yesterday's tragedy, > I saw a photograph of the crew, where Mr Anderson > was with a calculator's picture on his chest (shirt). > Did anyone else notice the familiar image published on > his shirt ? (meaning it looks pretty much like the 48GX, > doesn't it) If anybody finds a copy of that photo on the Web, please post its URL here. Here's a stock photo of Michael P. Anderson: http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/portraits/anderson.jpg He was 42 years old and had a master's degree in physics from Creighton University, so it's safe to surmise that was familiar with HP calculators. -Joe- I was scared. Everyone is scared. I think the biggest thing that holds a lot of people back is the fear of taking that first step to go out and take the challenge. I really want to encourage kids to decide what it is they want to do and figure out the best way to achieve that and then go out there and take the chance and try to do it! -- Astronaut Michael P. Anderson, encouraging over 150 undergraduate minority students at DePaul University to pursue careers in science, math, engineering and technology fields. ==== helps. papers web site, cause though its not good, it's better than the one I could scan. should find a small picture. Press it to enlarge it. I'm still not sure if it was the 48GX cause it's a bad image. It seems it was taken on january 20th, according to its credits, which by the way was signed as AP, so perhaps we can get a better quality picture from the people at Associated Press (agency). BEHIND: ILAN RAMON, KALPANA CHAWLA, WILLIAM MC COOL Y LAUREL CLARK. IN FRONT: DAVID BROWN, RICK HUSBAND Y MICHAEL ANDERSON. (Foto: AP) Carlos Lacroze Buenos Aires, Argentina -- > Reading the local paper, regarding yesterday's tragedy, > I saw a photograph of the crew, where Mr Anderson > was with a calculator's picture on his chest (shirt). > Did anyone else notice the familiar image published on > his shirt ? (meaning it looks pretty much like the 48GX, > doesn't it) If anybody finds a copy of that photo on the Web, please post its URL here. > Here's a stock photo of Michael P. Anderson: > http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/portraits/anderson.jpg > He was 42 years old and had a master's degree in physics from Creighton > University, so it's safe to surmise that was familiar with HP calculators. -Joe- I was scared. Everyone is scared. I think the biggest thing that holds a > lot of people back is the fear of taking that first step to go out and take > the challenge. I really want to encourage kids to decide what it is they > want to do and figure out the best way to achieve that and then go out there > and take the chance and try to do it! -- Astronaut Michael P. Anderson, > encouraging over 150 undergraduate minority students at DePaul University to > pursue careers in science, math, engineering and technology fields. ==== you > should find a small picture. Press it to enlarge it. > I'm still not sure if it was the 48GX cause it's a bad image. It seems it > was taken on january 20th, according to its credits, which by the way was > signed as AP, so perhaps we can get a better quality picture from the people > at Associated Press (agency). That is without a doubt a 48G family calc. Steve Sousa ==== > That is without a doubt a 48G family calc. For those with doubts here's another pic: http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101030210/sctone.html True HP fan, took his calc to space and showed it in the pics, which of us wouldn't? Both (an the others) died for a noble cause. Greetings Steve Sousa ==== >Here's a stock photo of Michael P. Anderson: >http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/portraits/anderson.jpg >He was 42 years old and had a master's degree in physics from Creighton >University, so it's safe to surmise that was familiar with HP calculators. I think most NASA scientist and astronauts are familiar with HP calculators. At least if the following add reflects the truth: The calculator that operates a space ship... ... was bought by NASA at an Authorized HP Dealer. Do the same in Brazil! The success of the space missions of shuttles Columbia and Challenger is associated to varied and complex calculations that ensure their advanced technology to work perfectly. Some of these calculations were entrusted by NASA to Hewlett-Packard model HP-41. The choice of Hewlett-Packard calculators to be used in the space shuttles Columbia and Challenger was the result of a study carried over by NASA to determine what calculator, amongst all available in the marked, would fit the job. The calculators underwent tests as rigourous as those endured by the shuttles' equipments before they are declared apt to flight. One of programs stored in the calculator is related to the ship's equilibrium and the volume of fuel to be burned to establish the center of gravity necessary to the re-entry in the atmosphere. This program was qualified by NASA as of critical importance to flight. In Brazil, when you have important calculations to solve, do as NASA (*) : Visit an Authorized Hewlett-Packard Dealer and buy your HP-41. HEWLETT PACKARD - When performance must be measured by results (*) The HP 41 calculators used by NASA were acquired normally in an HP Dealer without prior knowledge that they were to be used in a space mission. This was a famous HP add that appeared in various science magazines around here 20 years ago... It showed a nice picture of Columbia landing (or taking off) on a desert runway and a smaller picture of a 41CV. This specific add was translated (at least I tried to...) from that shown in Ci.90ncia Ilustrada, Ano II, N.bc 10, Julho/83, Editora Abril, page 5. We are all sorry for this tragedy, but the space program must continue. If they had stopped at the first ship-wrecks 500 years ago, the New World would still be waiting for discovery. Gerson ==== >Here's a stock photo of Michael P. Anderson: >http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/portraits/anderson.jpg >He was 42 years old and had a master's degree in physics from Creighton >University, so it's safe to surmise that was familiar with HP calculators. I think most NASA scientist and astronauts are familiar with HP calculators. At least if the following add reflects the truth: The calculator that operates a space ship... ... was bought by NASA at an Authorized HP Dealer. Do the same in Brazil! The success of the space missions of shuttles Columbia and Challenger is associated to varied and complex calculations that ensure their advanced technology to work perfectly. Some of these calculations were entrusted by NASA to Hewlett-Packard model HP-41. The choice of Hewlett-Packard calculators to be used in the space shuttles Columbia and Challenger was the result of a study carried out by NASA to determine which calculator, amongst all available in the market, would fit the job. The calculators underwent tests as rigourous as those endured by the shuttles' equipments before they are declared apt to flight. One of programs stored in the calculator is related to the ship's equilibrium and the volume of fuel to be burned to establish the center of gravity necessary to the re-entry in the atmosphere. This program was qualified by NASA as of critical importance to flight. In Brazil, when you have important calculations to solve, do as NASA does: Go to an Authorized Hewlett-Packard Dealer and buy your HP-41. (*) HEWLETT-PACKARD - When performance must be measured by results. (*) The HP 41 calculators used by NASA were acquired normally in an HP Dealer without prior knowledge that they were to be used in a space mission. This was a famous HP add that appeared in various science magazines around here 20 years ago... It showed a nice picture of Columbia landing (or taking off) on a desert runway and a smaller picture of a 41CV. This specific add was translated from Ci.90ncia Ilustrada, AnoII, N.bc 10, Julho/83, Editora Abril, page 5. (Sorry if I haven't been able to translate it properly, I am not good at this kind of task). We are all sorry for this tragedy, but the space program must continue. If they had given up at the first shipwrecks 500 years ago, the New World would still be there waiting to be discovered. Gerson ==== Manel. Today I transfered a program to the hp49g with conectivity kit version Please check your connections. Whith version 1 SubVer 2 Build 17(x49kit) I have no problems to transfer files but when I wanna rename a file or I wanna delete more than one item at once the error appears. With v1.0.9 ther error appears too. With HP connectivity kit 3.00 r04 I have no problems (well it's so slow..) I use the cable suplied by HP Espa.96a. Cable, RS adaptor, and two adaptor for connecting two hp48's or connect a hp49 to hp48. I use a digital multimeter to check cables are good and the result is the follow: HP-49 wire connector ________*________ _______*_______ | 1 2 3 4 5 |--0 | A B C D E |--0 | 6 7 8 9 10 | | F G H I J | ----------------- ----------------- TO PC ADAPTOR TO HP-49 HP49-PC ADAPTOR __________________ ______*_________ e d c b a / | 5 4 3 2 1 | i h g f /--0 |10 9 8 7 6 | ------------- ----------------- SIDE to connect to PC here you connect HP49 wire (*) means a mark to plug it on the correct way I have found only this connections. On cable: 1 --0--A--0 ; 7 -- G ; 8 -- I ; 9 -- H ; 10 -- J (2,3,4,5,6 y B,C,D,E,F ARE NOT CONNECTED) ON adaptor: 0 -- 10 ; b -- 8 ; c -- 9 ; e -- 7 Have I my cable ok? Are they the normal connections? Notice the adaptor has less connection than cable. If it is ok. What is the function of rest of the pins? Sorry but I am not English. -------------------------- CABLE DE CONEXI.94N DE HP-49 ________*________ _______*_______ | 1 2 3 4 5 |--0 | A B C D E |--0 | 6 7 8 9 10 | | F G H I J | ----------------- ----------------- al adaptador del PC A la calculadora HP-49 EL ADAPTADOR DE HP49 AL PC __________________ ______*_________ e d c b a / | 5 4 3 2 1 | i h g f /--0 |10 9 8 7 6 | ------------- ----------------- parte que se Aqu.92 se conecta conecta al PC el cable de la HP-49 Con un mult.92metro (la opci.97n que suena un pitido si dos cables tiene conexi.97n) he comprobado las conexiones de KIT de conexi.97n. En el cable: 1 --0--A--0 ; 7 -- G ; 8 -- I ; 9 -- H ; 10 -- J NO hay ninguna conexi.97n m.87s (el 2,3,4,5,6 y B,C,D,E,F NO EST.8dN CONECTADOS) En el adaptador de HP49 a PC 0 -- 10 ; b --- 8 ; c -- 9 ; e -- 7 ËEs normal que el adaptador tenga menos conexiones que el cable? ËPara qu.8e sirven las dem.87s conexiones? ==== Please, download from Eric Rechlin Web site (www.hpcalc.org) the pinouts connection for HP, by Enrico Carta. See the next explanations: **************************************************************************** *** Building the HP49G Serial PC-Link Cable 1.2 (details) 14KB Explains multiple ways to make a serial link cable for the 49G. Includes both HTML and ASCII text versions. By Enrico Carta (H). 2000/03/03 **************************************************************************** *** HP to Modem (details) 15KB Explains how to connect the HP49 to a modem. In HTML and text format. By Enrico Carta (H). 2000/07/01 **************************************************************************** *** Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK (M.A.C.H.) **************************************************************************** *** > Manel. Today I transfered a program to the hp49g with conectivity kit version > Please check your connections. Whith version 1 SubVer 2 Build 17(x49kit) I have no problems to > transfer files but when I wanna rename a file or I wanna delete more > than one item at once the error appears. With v1.0.9 ther error > appears too. With HP connectivity kit 3.00 r04 I have no problems (well it's so > slow..) > I use the cable suplied by HP Espa.96a. Cable, RS adaptor, and two > adaptor for connecting two hp48's or connect a hp49 to hp48. > I use a digital multimeter to check cables are good and the result is > the follow: > HP-49 wire connector > ________*________ _______*_______ > | 1 2 3 4 5 |--0 | A B C D E |--0 > | 6 7 8 9 10 | | F G H I J | > ----------------- ----------------- > TO PC ADAPTOR TO HP-49 HP49-PC ADAPTOR > __________________ ______*_________ > e d c b a / | 5 4 3 2 1 | > i h g f /--0 |10 9 8 7 6 | > ------------- ----------------- > SIDE to connect to PC here you connect HP49 wire > (*) means a mark to plug it on the correct way > I have found only this connections. On cable: > 1 --0--A--0 ; 7 -- G ; 8 -- I ; 9 -- H ; 10 -- J > (2,3,4,5,6 y B,C,D,E,F ARE NOT CONNECTED) ON adaptor: 0 -- 10 ; b -- 8 ; c -- 9 ; e -- 7 Have I my cable ok? Are they the normal connections? Notice the > adaptor has less connection than cable. If it is ok. What is the > function of rest of the pins? Sorry but I am not English. > -------------------------- > CABLE DE CONEXI.94N DE HP-49 > ________*________ _______*_______ > | 1 2 3 4 5 |--0 | A B C D E |--0 > | 6 7 8 9 10 | | F G H I J | > ----------------- ----------------- > al adaptador del PC A la calculadora HP-49 EL ADAPTADOR DE HP49 AL PC > __________________ ______*_________ > e d c b a / | 5 4 3 2 1 | > i h g f /--0 |10 9 8 7 6 | > ------------- ----------------- > parte que se Aqu.92 se conecta > conecta al PC el cable de la HP-49 > Con un mult.92metro (la opci.97n que suena un pitido si dos cables tiene > conexi.97n) he comprobado las conexiones de KIT de conexi.97n. En el cable: > 1 --0--A--0 ; 7 -- G ; 8 -- I ; 9 -- H ; 10 -- J > NO hay ninguna conexi.97n m.87s (el 2,3,4,5,6 y B,C,D,E,F NO EST.8dN > CONECTADOS) En el adaptador de HP49 a PC 0 -- 10 ; b --- 8 ; c -- 9 ; e -- 7 ËEs normal que el adaptador tenga menos conexiones que el cable? > ËPara qu.8e sirven las dem.87s conexiones? ==== I have plot a function. I can use X/Y softkey from men.9f under the plot to lock the position of the cursor. 1) If I press the arrows the cursor moves in the direction of arrows, it's clear. 2) If I press the arrows with red shift the cursor moves to the end of the plot window, it's clear. 3) If I press the arrows with blue shift the cursor moves to infinite position, the cursor psition is not shown and I can not see a x or y position. I cannot move back the cursor, is that a bug by HP49G, or make I a mistake? Hans Joachim (.de) ==== One more day to go for this HP41CX combo. at ebay. If you need parts for you 41CX and manuals, this is absolutely the last chance: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2304774436& rd=1 Good Luck bidding, Kevin. > Wrong newsgroup. For things like that, > please use the classified ads section of www.hpmuseum.org Raymond Superman schrieb im Newsbeitrag > HP41CX (not working) plus FA-2 cassette adaptor interface for auction: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2304774436 > > > > Happy Bidding ! > > Corrction this should be : > > FA: HP41CX(not working) with 2 manuals............although the link is > right. > > I got things mixed up with my other FX-702P auction. > > Kevin. ==== Actually, in the past, 2 HP41C where used on Columbia 1 containing a program to calculate the balance point (center of gravity) of the shuttle upon reentry (and I do not remember what the other one was doing). At one point in time, they where the primary system, and as more and more computers got integrated within the shuttle, they drift to a backup role before being completely removed from the program 10 years ago. > One more day to go for this HP41CX combo. at ebay. > If you need parts for you 41CX and manuals, this is absolutely the last chance: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2304774436& rd=1 Good Luck bidding, > Kevin. > Wrong newsgroup. > > For things like that, > please use the classified ads section of www.hpmuseum.org > > Raymond > > Superman schrieb im Newsbeitrag > HP41CX (not working) plus FA-2 cassette adaptor interface for auction: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2304774436 > > > > Happy Bidding ! > > > Corrction this should be : > > FA: HP41CX(not working) with 2 manuals............although the link is > right. > > I got things mixed up with my other FX-702P auction. > > > Kevin. ==== They ran the COG (center of gravity) and AOS (acquisition of signal) programs. Gene -- * These statements and opinions are mine alone and do not reflect my employer's views. * Actually, in the past, 2 HP41C where used on Columbia 1 containing a program > to calculate the balance point (center of gravity) of the shuttle upon > reentry (and I do not remember what the other one was doing). > At one point in time, they where the primary system, and as more and more > computers got integrated within the shuttle, they drift to a backup role > before being completely removed from the program 10 years ago. > One more day to go for this HP41CX combo. at ebay. > If you need parts for you 41CX and manuals, this is absolutely the last > chance: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2304774436& > rd=1 > > Good Luck bidding, > Kevin. > > Wrong newsgroup. > > For things like that, > please use the classified ads section of www.hpmuseum.org > > Raymond > > Superman schrieb im Newsbeitrag > > HP41CX (not working) plus FA-2 cassette adaptor interface for > auction: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2304774436 > > > > Happy Bidding ! > > > Corrction this should be : > > FA: HP41CX(not working) with 2 manuals............although the link is > right. > > I got things mixed up with my other FX-702P auction. > > > Kevin. ==== Does anyone know how to get the cube (or odd) root of a negative number without going into complex mode in the 49g? My calculator appears to not be able to get the cube root, for example, of -1 without going into complex mode. And even then it will give me a huge fractional answer with i in it. I went into y= and placed x^3 and then went to the table. It can handle that but then in the regular home screen it does not solve it. I'm a high school student taking calculus and am the only one using a 49g. everyone else uses a ti83+. Any way, it's kind of embarrasing having a calculator that cannot find the cube root of -1. If i remember correctly, it used to be able to do this before. Maybe i need to change the setting or reinstall something. ~Nekkyo ==== <79380bc6.0302022026.45d659c1@posting.google.com>, > Does anyone know how to get the cube (or odd) root of a negative > number without going into complex mode in the 49g? My calculator appears to not be able to get the cube root, for > example, of -1 without going into complex mode. And even then it will > give me a huge fractional answer with i in it. I went into y= and > placed x^3 and then went to the table. It can handle that but then in > the regular home screen it does not solve it. I'm a high school student taking calculus and am the only one using a > 49g. everyone else uses a ti83+. Any way, it's kind of embarrasing > having a calculator that cannot find the cube root of -1. If i > remember correctly, it used to be able to do this before. Maybe i need to change the setting or reinstall something. > ~Nekkyo In exact mode the cube root of negatives comes out complex, if at all, but in approximate mode, the cube roots of negatives come out negative. Or just be sure the number you are cube rooting has a decimal point, if you want to be sure of a real cube root. In exact and mode: -1 3 XROOT returns '(1+i*sqrt 3)' whereas -1. 3 XROOT returns -1. In aproximate mode: -1 3 XROOT returns 'EXP((0.,1.0471975512))' whereas -1. 3 XROOT returns -1. If the HP49 is in real mode when it wants to return a complex result, it will prompt you for permission to switch. ==== > Does anyone know how to get the cube (or odd) root of a negative > number without going into complex mode in the 49g? > As I'm sure you know, there are in general n, nth roots of a number. i.e 2 square roots, 3 cube roots etc. Sometimes these roots all have the same value. The 3 cube roots of -1 include -1 and two complex answers of the form a+jb, a - jb (engineers use j instead of i). -- Jim Backus bona fide replies to jimb(at)jita(dot)demon(dot)co(dot)uk http://www.jita.demon.co.uk ==== gotten it. I just did not realize until now that it had to be in approximate mode. By the way, you wouldn't happen to know how to speed up the graphing, would you? Or maybe there's a program out there that graphs faster. I love my HP 49g and I would really hate pulling out the TI 89 during an exam. Nekkyo ==== > I prefer using alpha for trigs, (alpha is the Nick's greek a) > so the ASSUME is always on (no need to 'X' UNASSUME) > 'alpha>=2*pi' ASSUME > 'alpha<=0' ASSUME years I'm sure I will put it to good use. Dave ==== Now that my 49G and I have 'got to know each other a little' I'm at the point of writing a few simple programs. I've quickly realised that it's pretty hopeless to do this on the 49G itself - and I understand that it's possible to write the programs on a PC (notepad?) and then transfer them to the 49G ... ... could someone please give me the basic steps to follow to accomplish this? - I have the serial cable and a spare comms port - but no idea as to what comms software to use, or what buttons to puch on the 49G. Any help truely appreciated. Many thanks, KJJ ==== > I've quickly realised that it's pretty hopeless to do this on the 49G > itself If you look at www.hpcalc.org you'll find several libraries written by me. You can safely assume that I have coded at least hundred times as much which I haven't released to the public. I have never coded on a PC for the HP49G - every nibble is programmed on the calculator itself. ==== > I'm at the point of writing a few simple programs. > I've quickly realised that it's pretty hopeless to do this on > the 49G itself - here both, UsrRPL and SysRPL programming. Clearly, you have to load a few additional rather huge tools, in particular the libraries extable, Emacs, SDIAG and some other very small stuff. But once you've got it I guess you'll never return to programming on the PC. Although I'm writing with 10 fingers blind on a PC keyboard, I'm much faster in progamming on the calc itself. And I have *immediate* control and not any quite often misleading emulator control ... There are people like JYA and others who're making their programs on a PC or leptop. But I like programming in an armchair or at the fresh air, without a heavy leptop on my knees, and I can do it at holydays, even at a boring talk or party or ... - Wolfgang ==== > I've quickly realised that it's pretty hopeless to do this on the 49G > itself - and I understand that it's possible to write the programs on a PC > (notepad?) and then transfer them to the 49G ... Many people develop on their HP49, I prefer the PC. There is a new and excellent tool for what you want. It is called Debug4x and consists of an upgrade to HP Software Development Kit, the HPTools set of PC tools, the EMU48 emulator, built in debuggers for SysRPL and ASM, a communications package for XModem, good help files, documentation and many more features than I can mention in one note. The product can be obtained from HPCalc.org, search for Debug4x -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com ==== little. I just wanted to clarify that we're talking about the same thing (terms like UserRPL don't mean anything to me (yet!)) ... ... I'm talking pretty simple stuff here - prompting for a handfull of variables - doing some basic calculations - and presenting some answers. Biggest problem I'm facing is that once I've input the program it loses all formatting - and once it gets more than a few dozen lines long it becomes quite a jumble to sort through. Is there an easy answer to this issue? - if I could maintain the original formatting (or even have a few gaps to visually seperate sections of code) it would make things a lot easier. Whilst I've 'got you' - just a couple more quick questions if I may ... Is there a way to supress the variables created by a program from being displayed in the lables used by the function keys - it's my personal preference to have just programs there - it's difficult to eyeball all the data just to find the programs. Additionally, is there a way to step through program execution to help with debugging? Many thanks all. KJJ Now that my 49G and I have 'got to know each other a little' I'm at the > point of writing a few simple programs. I've quickly realised that it's pretty hopeless to do this on the 49G > itself - and I understand that it's possible to write the programs on a PC > (notepad?) and then transfer them to the 49G ... ... could someone please give me the basic steps to follow to accomplish > this? - I have the serial cable and a spare comms port - but no idea as to > what comms software to use, or what buttons to puch on the 49G. Any help truely appreciated. Many thanks, KJJ ==== > I just wanted to clarify that we're talking about the same thing (terms like > UserRPL don't mean anything to me (yet!)) ... The guys who post on this newsgroup are often gurus but they mean well of course. ... I'm talking pretty simple stuff here - prompting for a handfull of > variables - doing some basic calculations - and presenting some answers. > Biggest problem I'm facing is that once I've input the program it loses all > formatting - and once it gets more than a few dozen lines long it becomes > quite a jumble to sort through. Is there an easy answer to this issue? - if > I could maintain the original formatting (or even have a few gaps to > visually seperate sections of code) it would make things a lot easier. I've made up some tutorials, sample programs and programming guide for simple tasks with surveyors in mind. The principles would be directly the same for any other task though. Check; http://www.quickclose.com.au/tut.htm tutorials http://www.quickclose.com.au/workshop2.doc manual (you need charting.ttf font at http://www.quickclose.com.au/CHARTING.TTF http://www.quickclose.com.au/programs.htm sample programs Whilst I've 'got you' - just a couple more quick questions if I may ... Is there a way to supress the variables created by a program from being > displayed in the lables used by the function keys - it's my personal > preference to have just programs there - it's difficult to eyeball all the > data just to find the programs. Use what are called local variables. These variables exist only while the program is executed. For example you want to store variables 56 in variable name x [45 67] in variable name y First put 56 on level two of the stack (from command line or other program) and [45 67] on level one of the stack then use the following code; << -> x y << @ remark: x and y can be used only inside these delimeters Additionally, is there a way to step through program execution to help with > debugging? > 1. Enter the name of the program to debug (e.g. 'MYPROGRAM') onto level one of the stack 2. Type 41 MENU (using alpha keys) 3. Press DBUG to start the debug 4. Press SST to step through the program If you put a HALT (as many as you like) in the program and run the program normally, using SST directly will start debugging from the HALT. Very useful tip ! CONT skips the HALT when it comes up, good for viewing stack contents, and the like. Hope that helps ! Richard S. ==== >BTW: My right to privacy and anonymity >when posting a simple observation in >a public forum has nothing to do with style. > Sorry, I can't agree here. > In most serious forums pseudonyms are a no-no. > Of course you can do what you like, > and the world will continue to turn w/o your real name. > I for myself will think it over to even answer to no-names/pseudo-names... > (no emoticons here due to obvious reasons) So, I guess you won't respond to this, then? Okay, I'll change my name to David Jones. Would that make you feel better? I take it that you each case to be sure? How do we know you're who your headers suggest? Perhaps you should attach a passport picture to prove it? ==== > Where do I find info on the bits in this nibble? http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/programming/entries/ent_srt.zip (Appendix E: Library Property Fields) http://www.hpcalc.org/hp39/math/simul.zip (Read lib.s in source.zip) http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3d7bf79e%40duster.adelaide.on.net Also search google for property field > If STRING(Text) could be used then: > STRING(ABC)+2*5+STRING(DEF) > would be ok - I dont think this is ok: > STRING ABC + 2*5 + STRING DEF > or ist it? It's ok. Try this: DISP 0; ABC 2*5 DEF Isn't it in the manual? Remember that : is used to separate commands, and that Ans is the way they have to share things. > I would prefer string variables. > Then the program is independent of the note(s). Why do you want that? Notes already have their own environment to be created and edited. If you fear that the notepad will be filled up with garbage notes, use my NoteFiler then. :) > Is is difficult to make T1..T5 or String1..String5? No, but they would't behave as the other built-in home vars. Anyway, notes are *the* string variables on the HP38G. > This note function you made - can it create new notes or must the note > exist already? That was just an example: it recalls existing notes only. Martin Lang and I are working on a string handling library for the HP39/40G. If there's enough interest, I'll try to release an HP38G version too with source code, then you'll have another resource to look at. > Has been testing with SYSEVAL on the emulator. > Also made a simple decompiler today to find Ans. What I use is a modification of J.F. Garnier's mon48: http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/2000/mon48.zip Indeed you don't need to recompile anything: just replace the 48 ROM file and the entry lists. To upload the ROM of your 38G: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp38/utils/romupl.zip I did some changes to allow bigger entry lists. > When I start making libraries is there som way to get a library into > the emulator directly? Google works quite well for this kind of questions: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3D733DF3.7090701%40iinet.net.au http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=al0cg5%24eo9%2407%241%40news.t-online.c om Don't worry, Google won't expect any thanks either. :) HPCC #1046 ==== This memory is conected to port 2-xx. You can use 128kB in port 0, there is attached HOME directory (where you store common data). The 512kB is divided into ports 2-xx. You can store here some librarires. HP48 has also one expansion port - port 1. Port 1 could be merged into the port 0. You can have 256kB memory to store common data (HOME directory) with ports 0+1 and you can have up to 4MB RAM in ports 2-xx. HP48GX has two slots for RAM cards - one for port 1 (128kB cards) and one for port 2-xx (up to 4MB). Your calculator is like HP48G+ (standard version has 128kb in port 0 only, but Cynox added memory to port 2). I think that you can't use port 1. The standard command (I don't know name) can only display amount of memory in port 0 (or +1 merged). Vojtech Sazel > I have recently bought a HP48+ with Cynox 512k RAM. When I check the memory > size (MEM) i get the result 127780.5. Does this mean that I still only have > 128K RAM or is it possible that they have installed 512K but the calculator > can not show it. > --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). ==== > I have recently bought a HP48+ with Cynox 512k RAM. When I check the memory > size (MEM) i get the result 127780.5. Does this mean that I still only have > 128K RAM or is it possible that they have installed 512K but the calculator > can not show it. > Press LS LIBRARY / PORTS. What do you see? ==== where do you get it? how much? ==== > the I/O port of the calc, but the only thing iÇve found > is about the rx,tx,gnd,and shield pins. whatÇs the > purpose for the other 6? I think some of then have something to do with the > screen... Correct. HP sells a large LCD panel that plugs into the HP49 (and a few other models) for use on an overhead projector. It's perfect for a large room full of HP calculator users and other endangered species. Anybody know where the HP49G serial port pinout can be found? Hpcalc.org perhaps? -Joe- ==== > Anybody know where the HP49G serial port pinout can be found? Hpcalc.org > perhaps? -Joe- IÇve searcheh hpcalc with the following topics pinout pin cable and even readed the documents about radio and IR modules for the 49 but they all use only the rx,tx,gnd,shield pins for their purpose, so nobody talks about the remaining pins thank you ==== The FAQ at http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/faq/#ss1.11 has at least names for the remaining pins. But these don't seem to be known abbreviations, since google doesn't find much about them. Markus > IÇve searcheh hpcalc with the following topics pinout pin cable and > even readed the documents about radio and IR modules for the 49 but they > all use only the rx,tx,gnd,shield pins for their purpose, so nobody talks > about the remaining pins ==== >I/O port of the calc, but the only thing iÇve found is about >the rx,tx,gnd,and shield pins. whatÇs the purpose for the >other 6? I think some of then have something to do with the screen >since i accidentally connected two of them and the contrast >went almost black, but, is there any information about this? thank you in advance > I don't recall seeing any public definition of the pin out, but there have been some discussions of these being used for an external LCD projector. And, there have been many posts about improper cables corrupting, and even damaging the calculator or display. (list at www.holyjoe.org?) Be careful. If there is a public pin out list, you should be able to find it in the hardware section of the HP49 section of www.hpcalc.org. If not, look in the FAQ, also at hpcalc.org. Sorry for the lack of specifics. Your English is better than some of the native english speakers who post here. Bill alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) <80004322.0302030538.1eb9d081@posting.google.com> <3e3eb4e9$1@pfaff.ethz.ch> ==== >The FAQ at http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/faq/#ss1.11 >has at least names for the remaining pins. But these don't seem to be >known abbreviations, since google doesn't find much about them. I've long wondered what voltage level and switching speed the remaining pins work at? Are they essentially bus outs? I wonder if it would be possible to connect to a parallel port on a PC say and then read the data fast enough to be able to re-create the display on the screen. Why? Well, intellectual exercise mostly since, for display purposes, the various emulators do a pretty good job but I'm sure someone here might be able to come up with a good reason. -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== Elect49, downloadable at hpcalc, which calculates the atomic number of a substance, given the cuantic numbers of the laste e-. For some reason i cant get it to work.. I get some type of weird chars... Pleas help, its important. ==== If anyone needs to tell people what they have just acquired, why not do it in a way that all of us can enjoy, for example posting or publishing a program for it, or describing a trick, not necessarily new ? For example, something like this: Did you know you can speed up your HP-42S? It can be done manually or with a program. Unfortunately, the program listed at Gene Wright's website does not work on my recently purchased calc (a bargain indeed!). Can anyone help? instead of: Hey guys, you won't believe it! I've just bought a 42S for $5!!!! Oh Jesus, today I believe in God!!! ;-) Just a thought. HPCC #1046 ==== AFAIK the marathons are chocolateware I will send you a big piece Peter Lott ==== AFAIK the marathons are chocolateware I will send you a big piece Peter Lott ==== AFAIK the marathons are chocolateware I will send you a big piece Peter Lott ==== >P.S.: Next Marathon is about Calculus. Hurrah!! Garth You're vary welcome Garth. Greetings, Nick. ==== > AFAIK the marathons are chocolateware > I will send you a big piece > Peter Lott Yummy! Greetings, Nick. P.S.:When I'll have collected enough chocolate, I'll try to open a chocolate museum. Not virtual, I mean real! Has anybody noticed how the shape of the HP49G resembles the shape of a bar of chocolate? Must be careful in future ;-) ==== > 3rd Place: Wolfgang again, for the idea of using EGVL, which > which could be done something like this: > << 1 0 { 2 2 } ->ARRY EGVL 2 GET I'll repeat here a small challenge which is related to JHK's challenge > but I simplified it somewhat, not talking on Gaussean integers anymore. > We start with f(0)=f(1)=1 and the recursion formula > > (1) f(n+2)= f(n) + i*f(n+1) (i = sqrt(-1)). This defines a complex-valued sequence but (1) is very similar > to Fibonacci's formula for his sequence F from his Liber Abacci (Pisa > 1202) which starts with F(1)=1, F(2)=2, hence the setting > f(0)=f(1)=1. If the limes of the sequence [f(n+1)/f(n)] exist in the > complex plane then it is necessarily a root of the equation (2) x^2 - i*x -1 = 0. For proving this one may follow Colin's device since it doesn't matter > whether we reformulate an eqation with real or complex numbers. As is > easily shown, the roots of (2) are the complex numbers (sqrt(3)-i)/2 and > (sqrt(3)+i)/2. My question is: Does lim [f(n+1)/f(n)] really exist and which of the two roots > of (2) is then the limes? Winner will be the first who comes up with a precise answer. > > - Wolfgang PS. You get the two mentioned roots also by running Joe's program above > with input i 1 in complex exact mode. They are as well the > eigen-values of the matrix > i 1 > 1 0 The eigenvalues of [[i 1][1 0]], w1 and w2, are primitive 12th roots of 1, so w1^n=w2^n = 1 iff n ==0 mod 12. For any values of f(0) and f(1), there are suitable values of a and b such that f(n) = a*w1^n + b*w2^n. Then f(n + 12*k) = f(n) for all non-negative integers n and k, and the values of f(n) are periodic with period 12. Since f(n)is not constant unless a = b = 0, there can be no limiting value to f(n+1)/f(n), as the ratio will be periodic too. The limit of the ratio does not exist. Note on an odd particular case: If f(1) = f(2) <> 0, then f(n) = 0 iff n == 6 mod 12. ==== > I'll repeat here a small challenge... We start with > f(0)=f(1)=1 and the recursion formula > (1) f(n+2)= f(n) + i*f(n+1) (i = sqrt(-1)). > This defines a complex-valued sequence but (1) is very > similar to Fibonacci's formula for his sequence F from his > Liber Abacci (Pisa 1202) which starts with F(1)=1, F(2)=2, > hence the setting f(0)=f(1)=1. If the limes of the sequence > [f(n+1)/f(n)] exist in the complex plane then it is a root > of the equation > (2) x^2 - i*x -1 = 0. > As is easily shown, the roots of (2) are the complex > numbers (sqrt(3)-i)/2 and (sqrt(3)+i)/2. My question is: > Does lim [f(n+1)/f(n)] really exist and which of the two > roots of (2) is then the limes? > The eigenvalues of [[i 1][1 0]], w1 and w2, are primitive > 12th roots of 1, so w1^n=w2^n = 1 iff n ==0 mod 12. > For any values of f(0) and f(1), there are suitable values > of a and b such that f(n) = a*w1^n + b*w2^n. > Then f(n + 12*k) = f(n) for all non-negative integers n and > k, and the values of f(n) are periodic with period 12. > Since f(n) is not constant unless a = b = 0, there can be no > limiting value to f(n+1)/f(n), as the ratio will be periodic > too. The limit of the ratio does not exist. That's altogether correct, hence, you are the winner. The result could have been obtained even with elementary math, I mention this only for the rest of the people The sequence f when drawn in a clock face, f(1)=1 at 12 o'clock, f(1)= 1 at 1 o'lock etc looks as follows: * * 1 * 1-i 1 * * -i 1+i * -i * i * -i-i * i * -1 * -1+i * -1 And this is the legend: When God had created Heaven and Earth and Mankind he took a little rest and looked at the sequence defined by f(n+2) = f(n) + i*f(n+1). Notwithstanding, God saw at once the above circle. And he said Ok, this may be the clock face for my creatures There is a very small missing detail in Virgil's argument. It's correct that the sequence [f(n+1)/f(n)] is periodic as well, but the period may perhaps be 1. This is not so as is seen by the circle. Actually, the period is 3. AND THIS HOLDS TRUE FOR ANY sequence f starting with any two reals a,b distinct from 0 and obeying (1) above. Hence, my next challenge: Write a shortest possible UsrRPL program which yields the 3 different terms of the sequence [f(n+1/f(n)] where f is defined above with initial values a,b <> 0. - Wolfgang ==== > The sequence f when drawn in a clock face, f(1)=1 at 12 o'clock Clearly, I mean with f(0)= 1 (= f(12)) at the top of the clock face. * > * 1 * > 1-i 1 > * * > -i 1+i * -i * i * -i-i * i * -1 * -1+i > * -1 And this is the legend: When God had created Heaven and Earth > and Mankind he took a little rest and looked at the sequence.. Independently on whether this is true or not: if Leibniz would have looked at the sequence, he'd had an additional argument in his claim This world is the best of all possible worlds!. It is told that he cried this out when he for the first time drawed the sequence of natural numbers in binary base and realized that addtion and multiplication could be carried out as well with 2 digits only. Do you know that in the Liber Abaci of Fibonacci (who was the Court Mathematician of Friedrich II = Barbarossa) also the addition and multiplication procedures as taught today in the elem. schools in the whole world appeared for the first time? (clearly, the Pope and many other people looked at these new procedures in arabic digits as a new trick of the devil Fibonacci invented also the first iterative numeric procedure, taking the example of computing with it the 3rd root of 47 (which is irrational). Remember that he lived nearly 500 years before Newton and 400 years before Decartes! I may present Fibonacci's one person is interested in and if time allows. - Wolfgang ==== > X > PS: It's nice to be back and find out that you have all learned > good manners, respect for each other, and a naturally polite tongue > all this while I was away...;-) ;-) ;-) > > Good manners and polite tongue have to be replaced by protest > sometimes. Not often, but sometimes. protest ??? You HULKed on WR !!! I guess Hulked comes from Hulk the green thing of marvel comics and means the devastation that he causes??? If this is what the word means, then did I do that without any reason? Wasn't it him who started this a long time ago, wasn't it me who tried to remain joking a looong time despite unbelievable insults from his side, wasn't it him who wouldn't leave me in peace for months? I can take much, but I can also strike back. Hulking wouldn't be to just say loud and clear what I think of him, but to remain very very polite, and at the same time do something else, namely take the whole history of postings here and give them to the court! It is definitely *NOT* an everyday thing, accusing somebody of terrorism because he/she refuses to out on the pseudo-serious face of a professor. *That* would have been hulking, if I guessed the meaning right. > Be aware of gamma radiation! I need that, I'm not from here. ;-) > It's worse than the Dark Side of the Force! Yes, for human beings, but for me it is necessary. Gamma-Snickers, yummy! Greetings, Nick. ==== > Nick Karagiaouroglou > Good manners and polite tongue have to be replaced by protest > sometimes. Not often, but sometimes. > > protest ??? > You HULKed on WR !!! > Be aware of gamma radiation! > It's worse than the Dark Side of the Force! > ;-) I usually do not read Nick's postings because these are caught > away by my spam-filter. I just read it now after searching in in my > garbage. Either put me in the garbage and forget about me, or take me out and read. No sense putting me in the garbage in order to search in garbage afterwards. > He could have been content with his role as the greatest empty barrel > making the biggest noise in this NG. But now it turned out that he is a > liar and a slanderer. He hates German universities, maybe he was kicked > out by one of these. No, and you know *exactly* what I was talking about. The hate goes not the universities themselves, but rather against what you're making out of these universities. Unimportant pseudo-philosophic instituts. But, if you deny this fact, then OK. I just sit here, watching your decay, and amuse myself. > People caring about user interface enhancement for the 48/49 are gurus > for him (he does not say eggheads because this might disqualify > himself). No. For me the gurus are those who will very seldom say a good word for anybody else's work, simply because that is not their own work. Anything that was not from the guru, *has* to be either nonsense or very imperfect, while the guru of course makes anything perfect by simply putting his/her signature on it. And of course I know that in reality I am an egghead who knows 3,5 things, quite contrary to the high priests like you, who declare themselves to be perfect. There is nobody else here, who has to say so often how perfect his work is. Furthermore! The main purpose of the HP49G is not its interface but its math capabilities. The guru left this work for eggheads like me, without even trying to give anything that would enhance those capabilities. If you don't do that, what do you expect form me the egghead? Sit and wait until your mercyful soul will think about real needs? > Unfortunately, he seems not to have the slightest creative > talent. In this respect I feel even sorry for him. Don't cry for me Argentina! > Marathons you can read in Urroz's books, mostly better, but occasionally > in almost the same words. I don't have the books of Urroz! I had more than enough information from the real professor here, and form all people who cared helping to understand the behavior of the calc and to solve real life problems, instead of assigning 3000 functions on a key. > The only what would be a pitty if he'd be > accused of plagiarism is that some students of little wealth had to pay > for Urroz's books. OK, come on out and accuse me of plagiarism! Do that, please! Officially and seriously! I'm waiting for you, professor! Nick. ==== X > Fibonacci invented also the first iterative numeric procedure, taking > the example of computing with it the 3rd root of 47 > (which is irrational). Remember that he lived nearly 500 years > before Newton and 400 years before Decartes! I may present Fibonacci's > one person is interested in and if time allows. 2=? ==== >I'll repeat here a small challenge... We start with > f(0)=f(1)=1 and the recursion formula > (1) f(n+2)= f(n) + i*f(n+1) (i = sqrt(-1)). >This defines a complex-valued sequence but (1) is very >similar to Fibonacci's formula for his sequence F from his >Liber Abacci (Pisa 1202) which starts with F(1)=1, F(2)=2, >hence the setting f(0)=f(1)=1. If the limes of the sequence >[f(n+1)/f(n)] exist in the complex plane then it is a root >of the equation >(2) x^2 - i*x -1 = 0. >As is easily shown, the roots of (2) are the complex >numbers (sqrt(3)-i)/2 and (sqrt(3)+i)/2. My question is: >Does lim [f(n+1)/f(n)] really exist and which of the two >roots of (2) is then the limes? > The eigenvalues of [[i 1][1 0]], w1 and w2, are primitive >12th roots of 1, so w1^n=w2^n = 1 iff n ==0 mod 12. >For any values of f(0) and f(1), there are suitable values >of a and b such that f(n) = a*w1^n + b*w2^n. >Then f(n + 12*k) = f(n) for all non-negative integers n and >k, and the values of f(n) are periodic with period 12. >Since f(n) is not constant unless a = b = 0, there can be no >limiting value to f(n+1)/f(n), as the ratio will be periodic >too. The limit of the ratio does not exist. That's altogether correct, hence, you are the winner. The result >could have been obtained even with elementary math, I mention this only >for the rest of the people The following is a straightforward and elementary proof that doesn't rely on any linear algebra : First we have of course the equation f(n+1) = i*f(n) + f(n-1) . Based on this, we can rewrite it in terms of the components of the complex values, where f(n+1) = a(n+1) + i*b(n+1) , a and b being reals : (1) a(n+1) = a(n-1) - b(n) (2) b(n+1) = a(n) + b(n-1) Based on the above we can derive further identities: (3) a(n) = b(n+1) - b(n-1) , rewriting (2) b(n+2) = b(n) - b(n-2) , substituting (3) into (1) and rewriting (4) b(n) = a(n-1) - a(n+1) , rewriting (1) a(n+2) = a(n) - a(n-2) , substituting (4) into (2) and rewriting Thus we arrive at : a(n+2) = a(n) - a(n-2) b(n+2) = b(n) - b(n-2) which is just what we need since these sequences are only expressed in terms of themselves. Now, based on the above we arrive at our final relation : a(n+4) = a(n+2) - a(n) = a(n) - a(n-2) - a(n) = - a(n-2) This can be rewritten as : a(n+6) = - a(n) The analogous relation for b(n) holds as well of course. Looking at this, it is obvious that both sequences have at most a period of 12, and consequently so does the original sequence. Finally, it follows from the above that the ratio of consecutive terms of the original sequence is periodic with a maximum period of 6, and therefore cannot approach a limiting value. correct that the sequence [f(n+1)/f(n)] is periodic as well, but >the period may perhaps be 1. This is not so as is seen by the >circle. Actually, the period is 3. AND THIS HOLDS TRUE FOR ANY >sequence f starting with any two reals a,b distinct from 0 and >obeying (1) above. Hence, my next challenge: Write a shortest possible UsrRPL program which yields the >3 different terms of the sequence [f(n+1/f(n)] where f is >defined above with initial values a,b <> 0. - Wolfgang << / DUP DO OVER INV i + SWAP UNTIL DUP2 == END DROP2 >> 42.5 bytes , checksum # 6C49h (48) . ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== I have 4 NiMH batteries I use for my 48GX. I numbered them so I know which one I need to keep out of the next rotation. I haven't seen the quick warning-to-shutdown time reported by Peter. I do have to keep a spare set of alkalines around as suggested. That's usually only a problem when traveling (batteries alway choose a bad time to die). -Dave >>I was wondering if anyone uses niMH batteries in their calculators. I own a >>digital camera so I already have the charger and I'm contemplating >>purchasing a set of 4 niMH AAA batteries to use in my 48GX so I basically >>will never have to replace them again... Has anyone already tried this? > I did try and am back with batteries. The low-batt warning was very > late. If you want to use NiMHs, carry a (charged) spare pack (or > better spare alkalines, they don't discharge as much when not in use) > got less than 5 minutes ! Pete > ==== schrieb im Newsbeitrag >BTW: My right to privacy and anonymity >when posting a simple observation in >a public forum has nothing to do with style. > Sorry, I can't agree here. > In most serious forums pseudonyms are a no-no. > Of course you can do what you like, > and the world will continue to turn w/o your real name. > I for myself will think it over to even answer to no-names/pseudo-names... > (no emoticons here due to obvious reasons) So, I guess you won't respond to this, then? Okay, I'll change my name > to David Jones. Would that make you feel better? I take it that you > each case to be sure? > This is the point where in real life, I would take you to the side and ask you about the obvious problem you seem to have. which is impossible in your case, and doesn't seem to even make sense. > How do we know you're who your headers suggest? > Perhaps you should attach a passport picture to prove it? > You must be a real newbee here... I have no will to take this 'discussion' any further. Maybe some day, you'll get the point, and let be this childish nonsense. Raymond ==== > You must be a real newbee here... Ummm...do you know who Dave Arnett is? No, I didn't think so, you must be a real newbie around here.... > I have no will to take this 'discussion' any further. :) Great. Now be a good little net.cop and go police elsewhere. ==== >You must be a real newbee here... > Ummm...do you know who Dave Arnett is? No, I didn't think so, you > must be a real newbie around here.... Actually, anyone know what Dave is doing these days? I miss his posts, I think his last was in 2001 or so. Now those were the days... ==== schrieb im Newsbeitrag > You must be a real newbee here... Ummm...do you know who Dave Arnett is? No, I didn't think so, you > must be a real newbie around here.... > I have no will to take this 'discussion' any further. :) Great. Now be a good little net.cop and go police elsewhere. > As I said: You're acting like a child. If you were frequently participating or even reading this ng, you would know more about me. Since you don't, it would be wise to check your archives before posting such unqualified stuff. Raymond ==== A small hint: Query hpcalc.org and hpmuseum.org, c.s.48 or Google by 'Raymond Hellstern' ==== Ils ont le meilleur compagnon de vie nos petits! Grosses bises .88 partager. -- > Reading the local paper, regarding yesterday's tragedy, > I saw a photograph of the crew, where Mr Anderson > was with a calculator's picture on his chest (shirt). > Did anyone else notice the familiar image published on > his shirt ? (meaning it looks pretty much like the 48GX, > doesn't it) If anybody finds a copy of that photo on the Web, please post its URL here. Here's a stock photo of Michael P. Anderson: http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/portraits/anderson.jpg He was 42 years old and had a master's degree in physics from Creighton University, so it's safe to surmise that was familiar with HP calculators. -Joe- I was scared. Everyone is scared. I think the biggest thing that holds a lot of people back is the fear of taking that first step to go out and take the challenge. I really want to encourage kids to decide what it is they want to do and figure out the best way to achieve that and then go out there and take the chance and try to do it! -- Astronaut Michael P. Anderson, encouraging over 150 undergraduate minority students at DePaul University to pursue careers in science, math, engineering and technology fields. ==== Years ago I ran across the hp42s and found it to be the greatest tool in my tool box(mold maker), after learning to program it. This tool took the entire shop and a few later to a new leavel of accuracy and speed. But now we can't get any more of the 42s's so I'd like to introduce the 48gx to the group and take the programs to the next level. Hence the problem. I don't have the time or the pacience to do this, this by all indications is a very complicated task in the 48gx. Is there any one who would be able to convert the old programs to the new program language. Eather for fun or will this cost and how much. ==== > should disassemble his own UsrRPL programs in a SysRPL editor and > rewrite it in SysRPL. > IMHO, this is too difficult for beginners. This > may be difficult even for a SysRPL-programmer! The same sentence could be applied to your approach ( hacking other people's SysRPL programs) > As an example I take the > eigenvalue command xEGVL which after argument checking and dispatching > calls flashpointer MATEGVL. It's very hard to follow the runstream of > this program which among other things computes first the characteristic > polynomial of the matrix, then looks whether it is decomposable in exact > mode which also depends on whether in real > or complex mode, etc etc. Thus, the SysRPL programmer would give up > and will be happy with FPTR^MATEGL even if switched to complex mode > already earlier Programming the CAS in SysRPL and ML must have been > very hard and its author(s) deserve full respect. I agree here. But you don't need a hard search in hpcalc.com to find a SysRpl program so hard to follow as this command. You can always let untouched a command that you don't completely understand. But is extremely difficult to digest a complete program if you can't figure out one of its combinations of commands (may be a combination of runstream commands. These are hard to follow sometimes). The obvious conclusion is that one must be careful choosing the target and my suggestion go in this direction. Given that you made the program, you control its flow and commands (avoiding the use of complex CAS commands or any other) then you can concentrated in SysRpl. I must say that this would be done hacking a program too, but you need to be very lucky to start with an easy enough example (may be you can suggest a list for that purpose). This don't invalidate my point by no means. > - Wolfgang Saludos Jorge M. Valenzani ==== My first UserRPL program (which I'm going to post here for your kind comments later :) tries to fill a result matrix on its run. The problem is that I would like the first column of the matrix contain the descriptions of the rows, like: [ [ 'Observations' 19.3456 23.4566 45.67 ] [ 'Refraction ' 0.0039 0.0039 0.0039] ] (so that the results matrix could be transferred to a PC, and then get pretty-printed somehow, with decriptive comments). Unfortunately, it seems like both 49g and 48gx don't allow strings being matrix cell's contents. Is there any way to work around this? -- Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. ==== HI I AM MANEL. WAY 1 DIRECTLY YOU CAN ENTER A MATRIX WITH MATRIX WRITER (SHIFT-LEFT+O) ANOTHER WAY STEP 1: ENTER THE ARROWS OF MATRIX AS LISTS STEP 2: ENTER THE NUMBER OF ARROWS WILL HAVE THE MATRIX (IN THIS CASE 2) STEP 3: RUN THE PROGRAM 4: { 'Observations' 19.3456 23.4566 45.67 } 3: { 'Refraction ' 0.0039 0.0039 0.0039} 2: 2 1: L2MATRIX RESULT [ [ 'Observations' 19.3456 23.4566 45.67 ] [ 'Refraction ' 0.0039 0.0039 0.0039] ] SURE THERE ARE ANY OTHER WAY BUT IT IS ONLY AN IDEA... THE PROGRAM IN USR-RPL (RPN MODE) 3: << -> N << N ->LIST AXL >>> 2: L2MATRIX (or another name) 1: STO The N variable is the number of arrows NOTE: I think arrows means filas in Spanish. I am not sure It works with a HP49G. I do not know with a HP48. I wish it will be usefull for you. Bye. ==== My table program comes as both a built-in to PowerPlot as well as a stand-alone. You can get the latest version from my website: http://leviathan.orblivion.com/hp48/software/index.shtml Aaron >Is it possible to create a table showing the x and y values for an >equation on the 48? > > Go to www.hpcalc.org. Search on Aaron Wallace. I believe his Power plot has a > table function. He also has a separate version of just the table IIRC. > Bill > alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please > (Use the obvious) ==== > I would just like to say thank you for your wonderful > contributions to the HP48,49 community. I currently have 5 of > your libs installed in my HP49 (Keyman, Appsman, Tetri, OT49, > AdjClk) plus Filer2 and a modified ChKM program. Your programs > are efficient both in speed and size and I have learnt allot > by just poking around the code. I really got excited the other > month with your release of ChKM ( which you now incorporated > in Keyman). I stored both a full and basic (28 assignments) > set of keymaps and used the 0 DELKEYS STOKEYS commands to > switch between them. This method was so slow... TETRI game and AdjCl that makes the HP49 clock surprisingly precise) are essentially interface enhancements for a slightly more advanced user, to make the life on the HP49 as easy and convenient as possible. If Urroz would have known these tools and used in his book, the reader could advance twice as fast and Urroz could have saved a lot of paper. There is a library called Unitman which I consider as my best contribution to the 48/49. It may be less important for people permanently living in the United States, but for engineers and scientists outside US it is really useful. It allows a complete customization of the builtin units system, to add or cancel or rename the builtin unit categories into your language. Clearly, you can delete also individual units or rename or add such units like dg (d=deco, a common unit in some contries) into the builtin menus. The most important (on which I worked hard) is that a user unit operates *exactly* as a built-in unit, i.e., you can convert such a self-made unit with Leftshift *directly* into another unit if these units are convertible at all. To realize this I had to dig rather deeply in the OS (like a mole ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/science/ ==== > [BTW, Tim, still thinking of your data manager, it's just that you don't > need it till November, right? ;-] I was thinking more of the others that might need it. I donÇt really have much desire to use the calc other than to play around, but it would be usefull to some. TW (La Ceiba, Honduras, C.A.) ==== I agree Wolfgang your Filer2 is better than the standard file manager. I didn't mention it because it's functions aren't quite as obvious to use as the standard file manager which is covered by HP49 manual and a simple menu. Wolfgang's Filer2 is very useful with additional functions but a different menu. There is an extensive range of useful applications and utilities available for the HP49 but I just wanted to concentrate and encourage the management of variables and directories. Personally I've reset my keyboard to replace the standard Filer manager with Wolfgang's Filer2. Personally I am continually surprised at how flexible and powerful the HP49 can be. Even after nearly 3 years I would guess that I only understand and use at most 20% of over 800 functions. Stephen N. > When it is necessary to keep something stored permanently in the home VAR menu. - The File Manager is very easy to use for major > housekeeping tasks like moving and renaming. All tasks can be done > quicker from the keyboard but the file manager takes less brain power > which is normally in short supply. > Filer1 or Filer2 from hpcalc.org (or better from my site) are filer > replacements which are much more powerful than the builtin filer. > In particular, on you have a HIDE/UNHIDE choose box on the SPC key > if beeing in a directory. Moreover, my filers need no brain power > at all The main menu contains a topic KEYS with a complete > information on the hardkey options. In particular, it tells you > SPC H?U/A?S (i.e. HIDE/UNHIDE in a directory, ARCHIVE/RESTORE in a port) Thus, SPC is a particular powerful, multifunctional key in Filer1/2. > Note that ARCHIVE from my filers creates a HOME backup with the date > appended! This is a really pleasant userface enhancement. And you can > keep various HOME backups in port1 and port2, theoretically even more > than 30 pieces, 100 KB a piece. Still an advantage of the HIDE/UNHIDE functionality in my filers: > You can unhide a selection of hidden files, not only all hiddens > in one keystroke as in my HIDE lib or in any other hiding tools. - Wolfgang > ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/tools/ ==== > ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/tools/ occured and saying that I have to make sure IÇm permitted to have access on your server? It says: 200 Type set to A. 500 Illegal PORT Command. 500 ÇLPRT 6,16,0,0,0,0,0... .etc. etc.Ç + command not understood.??? Does anybody know that or is this not the right forum to ask that question??? Martin J. ==== Finally, after a long time the 49g gave me the exact result for 9999 factorial. I've never seen the stack operate so slow after, though. -- Al ==== and the result is??? ;) > Finally, after a long time the 49g gave me the exact result for 9999 > factorial. I've never seen the stack operate so slow after, though. > X-Comment-To: Samuel BERNARD ==== Yeah, what is it? > and the result is??? ;) > Finally, after a long time the 49g gave me the exact result for 9999 >factorial. >I've never seen the stack operate so slow after, though. >> ==== The problem is that it cant aproximate it into scientific notation. THe result is almost useless unless you want to spend all day counting the numbers or if only the last digit is important. ==== > get a piece of paper and draw to small vertical lines (|) then at the > top of each line write (pi-1) and (pi+1). now you can find pi with > infinite precision. > it is in the middle! what you don't believe me? now that you know the secret, whenever you are in a test and you don't > know an answer, draw a circle. later on, challenge the teacher and > tell him that the answer was obvious because the answer is inside the > circle! go to the restaurant and order the best meal, then draw a donut in a > napkin (that will be your money).when it is time to pay, give them the > napkin. if things heat up, pull out your hp49g and show the big guy at > the door (the one blocking your way out) that he is wrong! the circle > has plenty of power. never underestimate it. drink pepsy, enjoy your > body. :) hi hi hi I tried that in a restaurant but the guy at the door demonstrated that the power of the circle is even greater! He put me in the centrifugal machine and separated me very quickly from my money. Since then I have problems, I always miss the keys on my HP49G. Greetings and glglglglggl (the consequence of centrifuging Nick), Nick. ==== > 1.- HI. How can do this? I have several functions and I wanna ADD them horizontally: f1(x)= 3x+2; f2(x)= 15x-10; f3(x)=x^2-15 y x1 x2 x3 x1+x2+x3 > --------------------------------- > 0 -0.67 0.67 3.87 3.87 > 0,8 -0.40 0.72 3.97 4.29 > 1.0 -0.33 0.73 4.00 4.40 > 1.5 -0.17 0.76 4.06 4.69 > 2.0 0.00 0.80 4.12 4.92 Y | . , % * > | . , % * > | . , % * > | . , % * > | . , % * > | ., % * > | ,. % * > |, . % * > ----------------------------------------------------------- X Where (*) = (.) + (,) + (%) (HORIZONTALLY) It is a tipical problem to calculate the flow of hydraulic pumps > mounted in parallel form. One possibility would be to simply create lists with corresponding x1,x2,x3 and y values, add the x values and plot the points. Example for your f1(x). Enter Y=3.*X+2. Enter Y Enter the list of Y values {0. .8 1.0 1.5 2.0} Press [=] to vreate the list of equations {Y=0. Y=.8 .... Y=2.0} Press [SUBST] to create the list of equations {0.=3.*X+2 .8=3.*X+2. ... 2.0=3.*X+2. } Enter X Press the menu key [ZEROS] (second page of menu S.SLV} to get the list of X values {.666666666667 ... 0. } Repeat the same for the other two functions f2 and f3. Notice that ZEROS for f3 will give you a list containing lists with two solutions. When this list is on stack level 1 you must filter out the negative solutions, so enter 1, then enter the program << << MAX >STREAM >> and press DOSUBS. This will return the list {3.87... ... 4.12...}. Now you have three lists on the stack, each of which contains 5 numbers. Press [ADD] twice to add the numbers in the lists pairwise. Then re-enter the list of y-values {0. .8 1.0 1.5 2.0}. Press R->C to convert the two lists of real numbers to one list with complex numbers which represent the coordinates of points that you want to plot. Enter 1 and then the program << PIXON >>. Press DOSUBS to plot all points. > 2.- Any body has information about the commands MKISOM and ISOM? I > think it can flip and rotate a function and change Y by X. It's > posible? Yes this is one of the things that you can do with ISOM and MKISOM. Suppose that you have Y=X^2 and you want to mirror the function on the axis y=x. Then you enter the vector [-1 1] which stand for the axis y=x (coeffs of variables of -x+y=0). Then you enter a -1 because mirroring is an indirect symmetry. (for rotations you enter 1). Press MKISOM to get the matrix [[ 0 1][1 0]]. You can use this matrix to do the symmetry operation. Enter the vector [X X^2] (vector of coordinates of y=x^2) and press *. You get [X^2 X] which is the vector of the new coordinates [X' Y'] after the mirroring. This particular symmetry operation could be done by simply solving for X, but for more complicated operations MKISOM and ISOM is a great help. > 3.- Are there any way to do a graphic from lists or matriz? {[1 2][145 300][1599 2000][-58 20]} I want to represent this couple of > points. If you really have a list of 2D-vectors, then you can enter 1, then the program << V-> R->C PIXON >and then press DOSUBS. Are there any way to edit the Y column in TABLE? > What I wanna say step by step is this. 1.bc- Press LS+F4 at EQ: enter a function Y=x^2+25 > 2.bc- then press LS+F6 and you’ll see a table. > 3.bc.- If you edit the X column the hp49 calculates the Y value. > My question: Are there any way to edit the Y column to calculate the > X value of some function for the same value of Y???? Hmm, I don't think that the built-in table functinality is enough for doing that. Perhaps you should use matrices for which there are much more manipulation commands. > 4.- What's the meaning of SOFT-MENU and the difference between this > one, TMENU and MENU? Soft-menus are all the sets of functions that you can see at the low edge of the display and which correspond to the keys F1-F6. The HP49G has many many built-in menus. When you press for example the key [SYMB] you get the menu [ALG] [ARITH] ... [TRIG] over the keys [F1], [F2],... [F6] (if flag -117 is set). Pressing the corresponding key will perform the action indicated by the menu label over that key. The keys [F1] to [F6] perform actions in accordance to the current menu. Their functionality isn't hard coded and thus soft. The commands MENU and TMENU allow you to construct your own menus with functionality that you want to have. For example if you enter the list {ADD SQ CROSS} and press MENU, then you will get a menu that contains these there commands. The menu is saved in the variable CST, which is whenever you press [blue-shift] and then [MODE] you will get the custom menu that you defined. The structure of the list is very very flexible and I would advice you to read the command description of the command MENU and the description of the system reserved variable CST. The command TMENU will accept exactly the same lists as menus, like the command MENU does, but it will not save the menu list in CST. That means that TMENU is for temporary menus which you will not want to use repeatedly in future. For more information get http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/49g_ug.zip and http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/49g_aug.zip Hope that it helped, greetings, Nick. ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** download: http://www.twincar.sk/download/NewOS_075.zip It has some cool features, like you may run ~100 processes Feedback !!!!!! Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Steve Sousa p.92se v diskusn.92m pr.92spevku I would like to know the electrical caracteristics of the > 48's address/data bus. They must be ttl compatible, Who told you they must be TTL compatible? I think it is CMOS. That is TTL compatible enought. > but, are they really ttl? Or are they ttl inputs and cmos > outputs? I was hoping for some values for Vih and Vil tresholds > for both input and output, ideally with a max-min values spec. Any help is greatly apreciated. > Steve Sousa Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are newbies? How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== Count me in! (as a newbie, I mean) Toby > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are newbies? > How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** > http://www.usenet.com > Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= X-Comment-To: Toby ==== >Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are >newbies? How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL >? Yes, you may be correct. I am good with ML and some sysRPL experience. ==== if this is your definition of a newbie, then I am a newbie as I don't program in ML or SYS-RPL... considering the fact that I work with HP Calcs since 1987, I think I am one of the elder newbies reading (and sometimes answering) this group... Martin Demo schrieb: > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are newbies? > How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** > http://www.usenet.com > Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== i really am a beginner (in a world of HP calcs) and most probably stay like this for a long time since the documentation is so poor :/ Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are newbies? > How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? Demo -- fuf (fuf@mageo.cz) ==== Im with you there, but its not impossible, there are a few good tutorials out there and if you stick with it then you may just live to see the day when you write your own. M@ > i really am a beginner (in a world of HP calcs) and most probably stay like this for a long time since the documentation is so poor :/ Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are newbies? > How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? Demo -- > fuf (fuf@mageo.cz) ==== > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are newbies? > How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? Demo Well, I'm another newby using hp calcs since first 80's. Sure I do a very limited use of SysRPL, just where UserRPL doesn't work, then I open some books and also ask the help from some gurus like Raymond masters.I am ever learning from them... ==== > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are newbies? > How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? Demo Well, I'm another newby using hp calcs since first 80's. Sure I do a very limited use of SysRPL, just where UserRPL doesn't work, then I open some books and also ask the help from some gurus like Raymond masters.I am ever learning from them... ==== > Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are newbies? Probably - I am the biggest n00b around here by far. It may change eventually, if I remember to practice...until then, I rely on help from others - Uncle Sams says that means YOU! ;-) > How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? *Many*! Most aren't posting here anymore though :-( ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** > Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are newbies? Probably - I am the biggest n00b around here by far. It may change > eventually, if I remember to practice...until then, I rely on help from > others - Uncle Sams says that means YOU! ;-) How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? *Many*! Most aren't posting here anymore though :-( Why not? Where are they (posting)? > Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== > How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? I did some ML basic work, moslty games. But I'm a real Sys-RPL n00b ! -- Julien Meyer - SunHP ( http://sunhp.jadeware.org/ ) ==== Does anyone know how to perform Floating points calculations on HP4x in > assembly language AND without using any ROM routines? So your simply need an entirely assembler implementation of some floating point calcultions? I would imagine that little sysRPL is mixed in with those commands as implemented in the rom, so Maybe those instructions could just be decompiled from ROM and then used. Perhaps with Nosy or some other tool the address of the asm instructions could be easily found. What instructions do you need? */-+%^ ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** John Smith p.92Íe v diskusn.92m pÀ.92sp.93vku > Does anyone know how to perform Floating points calculations on HP4x in > assembly language AND without using any ROM routines? So your simply need an entirely assembler implementation of some floating > point calcultions? I would imagine that little sysRPL is mixed in with > those commands as implemented in the rom, so Maybe those instructions could > just be decompiled from ROM and then used. Perhaps with Nosy or some > other tool the address of the asm instructions could be easily found. What instructions do you need? */-+%^ I think just + - * / and power & SQRT. Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== I can't seem to be able to graph vector functions on my HP 49G even > though the manual says the calc can graph 3d parametric surfaces. For > example, how can I graph something like r(t) = (a Serge You can plot parametric surfaces, but for parametric curves...well, you can fake them. For parametric surfaces you use the plot type Pr-Surface. If for example you have to plot the surface x(u,v)=u+v, y(u,v)=u-v, z(u,v)=sin(u+v), then you must enter the list {u+v u-v sin(u+v)} as equation, u as independend and v as dependend variable. Then you setup viewing and value ranges and plot the surface. Two of the parameters that you setup for the plot are the number of steps for u and the number of steps for v. With these parameters you can fake a 3D-parametric curve plot. In your example you want to plot r(t) = . Enter the list {cos(t) sin(t) t} as equation for a parametric surface plot. Enter u as independend and v as dependend variable. Now enter a number of steps for u for example 10, but enter only 1 step for v. You will be plotting a curve in space. I hope that this helped a little bit. Greetings, Nick. ==== > Here's an idea: scrub them with fine-grit sandpaper until they're all blank. > That will totally prevent them from getting any worse. ;-) LOL! In reality HP wanted to give us the possibility to easily re-label the keys according to our key assignments. So instead of using the awful overlays we can just scrub all key labels and write on them the functions that they perform. ;-) Greetings, Nick. ==== Like I said in one previous posting about the actual state of HP calculators, the 49G keyboard is less than ideal. When you are agreeing to spend the amount of money required to buy such a machine it is not 20 or so more dollars that would make such a difference if those additionnal dollars would let you have a good keyborad like the one on the HP41CX. HP perfected their calculators keyboards until the 41CX. Then, for the 49G, and probably newer models, they decided to dump all that and revert to cheap stuff found normally on remote control. Why did they have to do that. To remain competitive ? To me, remaining competitive is innovating, being better than the others, offering something special and yet, functionnal. I said it in my previous posting but I repeat it here. To me, the HP49G is a fantastic calculator, but for number crunching in engineering, it do not fill the bill. I bough it because it is an HP but I am a bit deceived at the overall finishing touches. Clunky keyboard and label legibility. Why not stick with a dark body and light contrasting colors for the labels. Look at an HP-67, you will see a small marvel of functionnality even if the faceplate is full of functions. In the past I ascociated HP with quality. I bough, in succession the following calculators : 45, 25, 41C, 41CV, 41CX, 48SX, 49G. For each calculator, I never questionned myself before buying. It was an HP so it was supposed to be of good quality. I was never deceived except by the 49G. Except for its power and the possibility of firmware upgrade, it deceived me for the aforementionned reasons. I seldom use it because it slows me down when performing calculations (I punch number real fast on calculators, I had to learn that skill because many exams were like calculation races when I was in engineering school). By the way, why are telephone keyboards using a different layout than caculators ? And, when I need to graph a function or do real heavy number crunching I use Excel on a PC or a MAC. By the way, the graphic calcultor built into some MAC systems is a real nice piece of sotware. The units functions is something I use sometime on the 49G. At least, HP maintained some ergonomic with the 49G by doing it as a tall calculator instead of a wide one. The 11C, 12C, 15C were nice solid machines but their layout is not well conformed for the human hand. So, I wait for the next RPN machine with a solid keyboard (like the 41CX) and, to the company that will do it: please, please, put back the ENTER key to its original place and make it a double wide key. It is the focal point of RPN. And please, please, use a color scheme that allows the labels to be read even in low light and avoid shiny material for the caculator case. Do not waste time reinventing something that is near perfect. Spend your time on perfecting the items that require it like, CAS, variables and file management. And please, please, keep in mind that a calculator keyboard is not the most efficient input device to enter a large amount of text like it is required when writing programs. Yet, with a PC interface it allows the typing being done on the computer and then downloaded to the machine. Then using the calculator keybord just for short fixes an debugging is an acceptable compromise. So please, please, provide an efficient interface. Will I buy such a machine? Yes. Even if it is not made by HP ? Yes. It is too bad, but now, to me, HP is no more THE calculator company. I tried TIs, Casio and many other and what distinguished HP from these was RPN and the overall functionnality and quality of the HPs. I hope someone peoples at HP and in other calculators companies are reading this news group. Maybe if they see enough asking they will see that tere is a market and they will sart producing what we need. In the meantime I will stick with what I have and try to find a 32SII which look not too bad for simple number crunching. I will keep it as a replacement when my 41 will die which will not happen in the near future, I think. Sorry for such a long post. Jean Lemire from Montreal, Canada ==== > It's a known problem. Check out my crummy keyboard: > http://holyjoe.org/crummykeys.htm Are you using the slide on cover, Joe? > Here's an idea: scrub them with fine-grit sandpaper until they're all blank. > That will totally prevent them from getting any worse. ;-) LOL Your keyboard looks as if you really believed that before you came to your senses ;-) On a more serious note, HP should of course replace your '49 - it's not acceptable for any company to supply such lousy key legends, or such a tight fitting cover if that's the problem. I have never used the slide on cover if you wonder - my key legends on my '49 are mint (and I *have* used the calc a couple of times or three . ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** I don't know if anyone has ever experienced this problem: I start & configure kermit server on PC and now I want to see remote PC files form HP49, but it says on PC: Unknown server command. Isn't there a bug on HP49? Because this works fine from HP48. Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== I needed a cheap calc for the office, didn't need anything fancy, just basic scientific. I have a HP48+, HP32SII and HP49, and I'm used to the quality of the HP48 and HP32. Can't really say HP49 and 'quality' in the same sentence. Anyway, the I bought a HP6S, as it was very cheap, and I was curious. It will do the job, but I had to laugh when I turned it over. The back is held on by two small screws. The back is black pressed steel, and next to one of the screws were two weird black marks. Looking closely, the marks appear to be from a black marker pen, and cover up some scratches! This calc was in HP's impossible to open without cutting yourself plastic blister packs. I can only think that the robotic tool that did up the screws must have had some sort of fault, and ended up scratching a whole batch of case. So some poor person was probably told to cover up the scratches with a marker pen! I think it looks worse than if they had just left the scratches! Doesn't really worry me, just makes me laugh (and sigh) as to how far HP has fallen... ==== >Doesn't really worry me, just makes me laugh (and sigh) as to how far HP has >fallen... Actually, it's the consumer that has assumed the bottom feeder status. The finest made goods die on the shelf while the shit sells because that what the consumer has voted for with their purchasing decisions. -- Sincerely, Richard M. Smith (509) 754-1126 rmsmith@pobox.REMOVE.com ||// (@@) Pardon the intrusion... __ooO_()_Ooo_____________________________ _|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|___ ___|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_ _|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|___ ==== I'm trying to use kermit to transfer files from my pc to the hp48g and it > can't connect to my calculator, I was wondering if somebody knows if one > have to do something with the serial port in the computer before start to > transfer or running the program, is there a way to test the serial cable? To use Kermit, make sure that the kermit software is set in Server Mode > before you connect. The calculator will then handel the rest of the transfer > for you. Also set the Baude to 9600 and the error correction to type 3 (CRC) ==== On the HP49 (MASD), you can insert links with 'YourFile , but that doesn't seem to work with the hptools, can I do it with an other instruction in ASSEMBLEM mode ? ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Raymond Del Tondo p.92se v diskusn.92m just in case someone wonders about > that new poster 'Raymond Del Tondo'. > It's me. My girl and me got married yesterday, Congratulations! > and since we didn't want a double name, > nor two separate names, > I took the name of her family. > Maybe you both should have made up a complete new name > Raymond (Del Tondo [former Hellstern]) Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== just in case someone wonders about > that new poster 'Raymond Del Tondo'. > It's me. My girl and me got married yesterday, > and since we didn't want a double name, > nor two separate names, > I took the name of her family. Raymond (Del Tondo [former Hellstern]) Wellcome to the club, Raymond! And best wishes for both of you. Greetings, Nick. ==== I am probably sure this has already been covered but I thought I would mention how I have prevented screen scratches. I measured and cut a palm pilot screen protector and placed it over my screen. I have had it on for about a year and have had no problems. Visibility was noted only to be slighty hindered. Sean ==== Done the same thing and it works fine ... now if I could only stop the key labels from disappearing ... 8o) Cam ==== Please, send to me or indicated the Library with you have a problem, and I'm see and explened to you the correct steps for run. Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK **************************************************************************** **** > You must attached the library. > Please, try again with ... > 1) Put the library in the stack. > 2) Execute the command ATTACH with: > 1: ATTACH and ENTER > Still doesn't work! I better remove it and transfer it again. But does > anybody have an idea why this can happen? I just copied one of my own > programmes to the flash and then my libraries didn't work anymore! Can't you move your own programmes to the flash? Isn't that a safer > place to keep them? Anders ==== > Hey Is it (of course it is, more correctly how) possible to make a programme > for the HP49G with eg. 2 variables that when on execution the programme > asks you for the values to fill into this variables? Eg. > Make a programme called funny that calculates: > x^2-log(y^2) But when you type funny you don't have to write: > funny,1,2 or similar. The programme simply makes a dialog box asking for > the values (one at a time) for x and y, respectivly. How to do that? Anders What about << Values? { {X: Enter X-value 0.} {Y: Enter Y-value 0.} } { 1. 1.} {} {} INFORM IF THEN OBJ-> DROP -> x y 'x^2-LOG(y^2)' END >> Did you mean that kind of thing? Greetings, Nick. ==== > [OT. Yes, Nick, I'm in the same boat as you: thinking out loud and always > eager to learn, because learning is massively fun. -jkh-] > mean for searching reality. Sorry. The very thought that things perdure even when I'm not thinking > about them (proven repeatedly by ordinary experience every day) is > sufficient to convince me that there is something (called reality) outside > of my mind which exists independently of my mind and which is not effected > by my thoughts about it. Thinking about reality is not the same like proving that the reality of any theory really exists. Theories are often telling us themselves that we are talking about something that has to do with reality but isn't reality itself. There is not a single theory that can be proven to be absolutely correct, the only thing that we can strictly do is to disprove them, when they predict things that contradict experiment and make them better by changing them. But, to say that something really exists because a theory predicts it is the very very old and very very naive thought. We have gone a rather long way ahead sionce that was believed. > Ergo, by my claim that pi is real, I do not confuse reality with the > observed. No, it seems to me that you sometimes confuse reality with what > you wish to exist. It all fits so wonderful in a simple picture, if the > wished to be distance PI EMED, can be assumed to exist a priori. > But the wish for an easy picture is not a proof. Ok, here's a PROOF: Let's suppose that the point PI EMED does NOT exist in reality, but only > exists as a concept in my mind. Ah, but point and location are > identical. So, if a point does not really exist, then that location does > not exist, and is a mere fiction, like the Land of Nod. One thing is > certain about locations that don't exist: you can't go there. Therefore, if > PI EMED does not really exist, then you would be unable to go there. Since > that is patently absurd (what's gonna happen if you try? gonna run into a > brick wall that stops you?), the original supposition must be false (by > process of reductio ad absurdum) and we have thus PROVED that the point PI > EMED *does* exist in external reality, Q.E.D. This is not a proof of the existence of PI EMED but rather a proof of consistency of concepts that are (up to a certain degree) useful for calculating distances, doing physics and so on. Speaking about go there, how do you prove that you are there? By measuring? How exactly can you measure the location distances. Can we really measure up to infinite precision, which would be necessary for saying that we reached PI EMED? It starts showing that we can't measure so exact and that the concept of distance might become very very unsusual when talking about distances at the edge of fermi distances. > Anyway, you talked about another definition of precision and > accuracy. Where is it? I don't see any here. Correspondence between two aspects of reality, whether observed > or not. Still I see no definition. Only interpretations. Suppose I say, A and B are in EXACTLY the same place (or PRECISELY the same > location). I'm not interpreting anything, or measuring anything. I'm > saying that their locations CORRESPOND. In mathematical terms, they > coextend, and if they are points, they are identical points. This is true > whether measured or not, whether known or not. Example: Is the warped > spiral galaxy ESO 510-13 http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap010803.html a > single galaxy that's warped (as everybody claims) or *two* galaxies seen > edge-on, one in front of the other, and slightly askew from it (as I > believe)? It *really is* one or the other (or some third as-yet-unimagined > situation!) and really WAS that before mankind came along and might very > well continue being what it really is long after we're gone. Scientists > take great delight in cooking up hypotheses like these, and then VERIFYING > them, which means seeing whether they CORRESPOND to REALITY or not. Sorry, I still see no definition of precision and accuracy, though what you state above is undoubtfully everyday routine of science. But again, theories can prove a limited number of phenomena, always leaving space for what they can't prove nor disprove. To use your words, there can be an infinite number of theories that all predict the same result, and of which none can be declared to be more reality-like than the others, until some new phenomenon is discovered which can be explained using one but not the other theory. But one thing remains: To say that we have found reality we must first do every thinkable experiment, every thinkable test and so on, and find out that there is some theory that can explain all outcomings of all experiments. While a single contradiction is enough to disprove a theory, there is no finite number of explained experiments which can prove beyond anby doubt that some theory is the one and only description of reality. No theoretical physicist claims to be able to tell you what reality is. > P.S. Not every number has to be located the way you described. True, but real numbers do, no? No. Depends on what you accept as a valid way to construct the > corresponding distance. Locate PI on a straight line. You can't, if > you are allowed to use only ruler and.. the other thing with the two > legs, what's its name, compass?, Well I think you know which > instrument I mean. AAuuggghhh!!! Yes, WE can't LOCATE it... but it's REALLY THERE! If it were > not, then what the heck is the point of math (no pun intended)? Proof: If > it were NOT really there, then ANY talk about locating it with accuracy is > pointless (pun intended) since that kind of accuracy is determined by the > error, the distance between where I think pi is and where the REAL pi is. > How can that distance exist if there is no REAL pi? The existance of mathematical constructs doesn't automatically imply physical existance. If you accept that a circle has physical reality then you must accept that pi has also physical reality. But this is a very very difficult question. Nobody can really tell that mathematical concepts have to find their exact analogon on real world. There is much correspondance and resemblance, but after all we don't really know if for example any possible distance is real existing because of eventual quantization of space. > Similar situation to PI EMED: If there were no real pi on a number line, > then there would have to be a discontinuity there and you wouldn't be able > to go through that point, but you can, so there isn't, ergo pi exists. I > suppose a black hole might exist at PI EMED, but if it did, it'd be even > EASIER to go there, although the final approach would suck. ;-) Not discontinuity, where did you get that? And about going through, don't forget knots of wave functions, locations where an electron never can be, and nonetheless it manages to go through. Who told you that you have to be able to go at any point in space that was thought out by some particular geometry? And how do you measure where you are? Do you have an infinite precision distant metre? > Anyway, we started with precision and accuracy. There are strict > definitions of those quantities. The philosophical part doesn't offer > definitions but rather what each an every brain conceives and > thinks/wishes true, because it seems to make sense. Ah, but you accept those strict definitions ONLY because THEY make sense. Because they make sence for a limited field on which I work. > Otherwise you're caught in an infinite regression: These strict definitions > are based solidly on other solid definitions, which are based on something > else, which, um, well, at some point it becomes *obvious*. To you it might sound obvious that distance is a continuum. But it might as well be discrete. So no matter how obv.92ous something is, it is not this that makes a set of axioms a basis for a theory. > In math, we > call such a thing an axiom, defined as a self-evident truth that requires > no proof. But some people claim that even self-evident things need proof. > So I did (see above). What say you? I say you should better re-read axiomatic set theory and its consequences. Then proceed to other stuff and tell me what to do with the axiom of choise. Axioms are used as premises under which some later statement might prove right or wrong. But not as eternal truths that have to be the same as reality. And you should have also mentioned that regarding axioms, it is possible to accept anything as axiom and go on constructing the corresponding theory that then might prove some statements right, which don't have to do much with reality. Mathematics is not only for measuring real existing distances. This is not the primary objective. Greetings, Nick. ==== > hi Joe, Nick, > what an interesting topic! would you mind if i jump in? Go ahead and jump, jump. (Van Halen 1984) ;-) > in my opinion, reality and existence are two different things. reality > is what we come to know through interpretation (by becoming aware of). > we become aware of existing things (or other things that don't exist > like abstractions, symbols, or whatever) through interpretation. > reality is interpretation (the nature of reality is interpretation). > we come to know things through interpretation and this 'know' is what > we call reality. yes, things exist, no doubt, but the thing is > interpreted in a suitable manner that suits the interpreter. existence > by itself does not form reality. an object that exists can have > different realities to different observers depending on the > interpretation of each person. the ultimate interpretation is the one > we do in order to live. we see things in a way that allows us to keep > living. > a fictitious point can have reality (can be real) and yet not exist. > also an object can exist and yet not have reality (by us not being > aware of it). reality is relative, it doesn't exist outside a person > (or machine). reality has no existence outside of the mind. ==== Yeah, but the 49G manuals suck. They tell you how to use the GUIs in algebraic mode and then they hint at some of the RPN functions. Even the Advanced User's Guide is nothing more than you're calculator can do more than we tell you; here are a few examples. It's not nearly as good as the HP 48G AUR. > I know that all the HP49 documentation (official pdfs) is available at > http://www.hpcalc.org/search.php?query=hp49+guides (Alex please note). However, I have searched hpcalc.org (fabulous site!), HP Calculator > Museum (hpmuseum.org - another great site), tried Google, etc, but I > cannot find the official HP HP48G Series User Guide or any softcopy > (even scanned) of the HP48G Advanced User Reference. (Please note, > HP48 series). Well, with the exception of the CAS commands, the commands of the > machines are identical, aren't they? A big part of the commands of the > HP49G can be used on the HP48 series, and so the manuals of the 49 are > useful also for 48 users. Am I wrong here? Greetings, > Nick. ==== it's possible to do a WAP browser for our hp 4xG ??? greetings, Acrux ==== > it's possible to do a WAP browser for our hp 4xG ??? We didn't implement wsp, but a WEB browser was already written by Yoann Desir : http://www.hp-sources.com/navigator/ Please also have a look at http://youpibouh.thefreecat.org/info/prog/4xinet.html for internet connectivity -- Samuel Thibault ==== We didn't implement wsp, but a WEB browser was already written by Yoann > Desir : http://www.hp-sources.com/navigator/ Please also have a look at > http://youpibouh.thefreecat.org/info/prog/4xinet.html > for internet connectivity > thanks a lot! greetings, Acrux ==== Oh, the I suppose that what you mean by blurred is that the HP49G displays text using a style other than plain style, like for example italic, etc, which regarding its low resolution can really wake the impression that the displayed text is blurred. If this is the case, then the text you are using just happens to contain the control characters combination which instructs the 49G to switch to, say italic display. Hmm, doesn't look like a string that contains such control character combinations. In this case I suppose that John's suggestion might help you. Greetings, Nick. ==== Quoting from page 11-3 of the HP 48G User's Guide, ...functions with the same precedence are performed from left to right. I expect that the manuals for the 28 series and 48SX have a similar statement. But I agree that it would've been better if they had noted that this is contrary to convention for a tower of exponents. Offhand, I don't see anything at all in the 49G guides regarding either precedence or order of operations. I guess the writers assumed that everybody knows the conventions. -- James ==== which I quote the following: I have vague memories of discussions of the a^b^c discussion, but no idea of the conclusion. Knowing the team, I would be willing to say that it's reasonable to assume that RPN purity would win out over tradition. Thus, the problem was discussed. It seems very likely the 48-designers had been RPN-purists so to speak, including Charles M. Patton. Thus, they didn't perhaps find it worthy to make a special remark on the traditional convention of the tower of exponents ==== Sure I'm missing something when reading the user guide: perhaps the translation into spanish is not as clear as it would be... When I try to solve a program with flag 11 set, the calculator would stop and ask for the other variables, but it does not. I need help about it. ==== My teacher has recently banned graphing calculators on tests and other class work (Well out goes my 49G until next year). I was then immediatly on the lookout for a good scientific calc. I did some research and it looks like the 32SII is one of the best scientific calcs. When I checked its price I was shocked to see a 300+ price tag on the web. After 30minutes of searching I gave up. Does anyone know a online store or local store that still carries the 32SII? It has to carry it at its orginal price not the collectors price I have $80 left to spend on this calc (the 49G left me broke). If anyone knows a local store I can look in my local store (though I doubt it is there) and get a feel for who used to carry it and maybe they'll still have some on there shelves. Thanxs in advance CID ==== Megalenoume!Etsi etsi!apla egw prepei na mai o pio mikros!? ellhnwn mas einai. ==== RE-POST...Please help. ==== Yhea, brain damage, not yours, the calculators. ;-) Stan ==== Dimitri Missoh. ==== If you have a ROM 1.19-6, download the extable of the next address : http://etud.epita.fr:8000/~avenar_j/hp/49.html Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK **************************************************************************** *** ==== Does anyone know the protocol used in the output from the HP-49g to the overhead screen? I am thinking about making an external screen with possibly a touchscreen that uses the serial port to give the coordinates of the touch. I do know, however, that the cable packaged with my calculator does not have any throughput for the overhead display, so I would have to make my own cable. ==== I knew Greeks where using HPcalcs and participating in c.s.h. I didn't know that birds did that too! -- The sheer publicity brought to someone that gets published on Netsperado is enought to make him cocky, elitist, outrageously selfish and in general get him to know his greateness even better. ==== You do; you can close your account and not use eBay again. -- The sheer publicity brought to someone that gets published on Netsperado is enought to make him cocky, elitist, outrageously selfish and in general get him to know his greateness even better. ==== Ahhhh - many thanks to both of you :) ==== Ouch! Using the name TEST with no delimiters does indeed work if the calculator doesn't find any variable or XLIB named TEST, but it would be better to use the '' delimiters, as in 'TEST', so that it's put on the stack as a name rather than executed. -- James ==== And IMHO it would be very nice to be able to explore each bank 1Meg card in slot-2. Else now It makes feel a little blind, a thing I never felt with my HP :) By the time as far as I understood flash, I found a way to guaranty to back up flash exactly in first try: First inflate Home directory until its about 128K using a bulk list stored in a var, and ARCHIVE it to flash doing whatever clean up needed. This first tryfull back up will occupy one of banks and subsequent (inflated Home back-ups) will be successful. Nevertheless I believe I skip something, my holdable-Monster HP49 should not need such an indirection for such an easy process, back up. Alper. ==== Perhaps one day, I sent Wolfgang a program to extract objects from a flash bank, (purged and present), so that he could integrate it in his filers. -- ir. P.F.Geelhoed Delft University of Technology Laboratory for Aero & Hydrodynamics Leeghwaterstraat 21, 2628 CA Delft, The Netherlands +31-15-2786656 / +31-15-2782947 (fax) p.f.geelhoed@wbmt.tudelft.nl ==== Oh yes, I'll do that. It need not be even too general. To begin with, it would suffice to be able to switch two versions of bank 0 (the one which originally was a User-flash bank). In bank 0 is located the builtin filer, for instance - Wolfgang ==== What happedened to all the FLASH 48's ? A year ago i visited and they had huge FLASH equiped 48GX's . ==== But when the most recent OS update happened, only 64k extra was used, and that has help for some of the commands. The sort of help I'm talking about is a couple of lines, a small example, and a couple of relevant links to other commands. I can't imagine this taking up too much memory. ==== I recently downloaded this program on HPCALC.ORG. Does anyone know how to add equations into this library. Thanxs in advance CID ==== I would like to buy the HP40G. 1) Concerning the CAS, does anybody know what ROM version of the HP49G is comparabale (or even identical) to that of the HP40G? 2) Is there a way to check the HP40G ROM version on a real calculator by any key combinations so that I can check it on the store? Axel. ==== If your cell phone can use serial protocoll then yes. Can it? Greetings, Nick. ==== I will post the flags soon. I've got final exams this week (for which I just gave. ==== Oh, then best luck for your exams. Greetings, Nick. ==== OK, a dilema on with integration on my HP48G+. My problem is, if I enter -3 3 'X^(1/3)' .S (.S is the elongated-S) it returns 'IFTE(1/3==-1,LN(X)/dX(X),X^(1/3+1)/((1/3+1)*dX(X)))|(x=3)- (IFTE(1/3==-1,LN(X)/dX(X),X^(1/3+1)/((1/3+1)*dX(X)))|(x=-3))' (4.86759229981, 2.81030572456). Now, the same with 'XROOT(3,X)' rather than the fractional power, produces the correct result (0). Why is this? When I manually took its integral and was doing some computations, I found that also (and this is probably the root of it) that -3^(4/3), the calculator evaluates as a complex number (XROOT(3,-3)^4 evaluates correctly as an irrational). Is this a bug in the HP, or am I doing something wrong somewhere? -Mike ==== The trigonometry marathon has just been uploaded to hpcalc. This is a new orthographically corrected version. Many many thanks to Bill Storey for his enormous efforst of marking up the errors. Also, version 5 of the sequences, series and limits marathon has been uploaded. The new part contains programs for enhancing the built-in capabilities of the HP49G when it handles limits of series, using many convergence tests, like for example the quotient test, etc. If somebody wishes to have them from me, then don't hesitate dropping Greeetings, Nick. P.S. On page 5-11 of the sequences series and limits marathon there is an error: The series sum(n=1,+oo, LN(n)/2^n) does converge. Copy and Paste cought me unprepared again ;-) ==== --------------------------------------------------------------------- http://carbon.cudenver.edu/~hgreenbe/glossary/Index.html Toby ==== He, he, heeeee! Ahh, thanks. So it's just taking a sprectrum of one's brain, hey? ..... Well, not exactly. These three guys have their own music category. It's just Rush. Vacations, perhaps? Suomi is a big country... Oh man, me and quick, looking at me poor amd will think that times flows backwards! ;-) Greetings, Nick. ==== I also saw this program for the 83+ (I believe it's an official program) and I too would like to know if there was any program for this...I did not see any on hpcalc.org or my limited searches on the web. ==== You can use a database, like Scribe or Rolodex, you can define (in Scribe) different headers for question and answer; in Scribe right scroll doesn't works and this is a problem, but perhaps you can find it useful. It's an excellent program. ==== I think the best way would just be to use strings and save them as variables. A great editor for the 48GX was Mini-Writer....though I'm not sure if there is a 49 version of this... ==== I just make an empty string and use Emacs from there. Emacs can be found at ==== not I have settled for WinHP as my PC editor, it creates files in TGV and T49 format. Then I use TGV plus to read them on my HP49. Great combo if you want suggestion. ==== you want Okay, thanks for telling me. I was loking for something like that on my computer. ==== That the HP49G can't find an answer, or at least can't find an answer using that specific formulation of the question. YANTOO! (You Are Not The Only One) ;-) Greetings, Nick. ==== I did find out that if you re-evaluate the expression with Xt it comes back with Xtt, and if you do it again it returns Xttt and so on. Still a mystery though. Stan On 16 Dec 2002 08:37:09 -0800, nk@imos-consulting.com (Nick