B2 can I use my old printer HP82240B with the HP49G? I doesn't found anything about printing in the HP49G manual, but in CAT I found the commands PR1. Is there a more detailed manual in the internet available about HP49G? The manual in the HP49G box is in some cases not so detailed. > can I use my old printer HP82240B with the HP49G? Not directly, no. Sorry. The printer's only interface is IR, and the HP49G has no IR port. > ... in CAT I found the commands PR1. You *can* print from the HP49G, but only to a serial device connected to the wire I/O port. > Is there a more detailed manual in the internet available about HP49G? Go to www.hpcalc.org and scroll down to the HP49G section. Not directly, no. Sorry. The printer's only interface is IR, and the HP49G I was working on convertor with HP82240B support and it also supported my TV so I could use it as RC, and I will probably come back to it when I get back to Slovakia (in 6 months). (Currently I am an foreign exchange student in US.) I have a big plans with it: an external interface fo HP49, like IR, wireless, data analysis ... I hope it will not be just dream. In that interface I used PIC16F84, but on www.hpcalc.org there was some a similar convertor that used PIC12Cxxx and also detailed instructions are available. Anyway, the biggest problem I faced was the way how to power that convertor, I temporarily used a small battery from MB, but I need a constant voltage 5V. Serial port does not provide enought power, because the IR LED needs a lot to get a good distance. ... in CAT I found the commands PR1. You *can* print from the HP49G, but only to a serial device connected to the > wire I/O port. Is there a more detailed manual in the internet available about HP49G? Go to www.hpcalc.org and scroll down to the HP49G section. Hope this helps! ==== In the Eric Rechlin Web site (www.hpcalc.org or http://ca-on.hpcalc.org) exist on HP49G IR Adapter V1.2 (IRdoc_V12.pdf) of Marcel Flipse Search in : http://ca-on.hpcalc.org/search.php?query=infrared&hp49=1 > I was working on convertor with HP82240B support and it also supported > my TV so I could use it as RC, and I will probably come back to it when I > get back to Slovakia (in 6 months). (Currently I am an foreign exchange > student in US.) I have a big plans with it: an external interface fo HP49, > like IR, wireless, data analysis ... I hope it will not be just dream. > In that interface I used PIC16F84, but on www.hpcalc.org there was some > a similar convertor that used PIC12Cxxx and also detailed instructions are > available. > Anyway, the biggest problem I faced was the way how to power that > convertor, I temporarily used a small battery from MB, but I need a constant > voltage 5V. Serial port does not provide enought power, because the IR LED > needs a lot to get a good distance. > ... in CAT I found the commands PR1. You *can* print from the HP49G, but only to a serial device connected to > the > wire I/O port. > Is there a more detailed manual in the internet available about HP49G? Go to www.hpcalc.org and scroll down to the HP49G section. ==== anyone please tell me how to enter piecewise and step functions on the HP48GX? I'd really appreciate it. Also, is there an an way to find the second derivative directly? I've been finding the first derivative, writing it down on paper (which can be a pain), then entering it in again to find the second derivative. As you can see, this leaves lots of room for human error, and it's already cost me some points on two exams. Jennifer ==== > anyone please tell me how to enter piecewise and step functions on the > HP48GX? I'd really appreciate it. You might like to try a trick for the piecwise defined functions that works well on the 39G. I would think it would also work on the 48 but I don't have one to test on. The trick is to divide by the domain of the function. For example, suppose that the function was: f(x)= x+5 for x<=-2, 10-x^2 for -21 On the 39G you would enter this as three functions F1(X),F2(X) and F3(X) as below. F1(X)=(X+5)/(X<=-2) F2(X)=(10-X^2)/((X>-2) AND (X<=1)) F3(X)=(5-X)/(X>1) When you graph this you will, on the 39G at least, get a perfect display with the discontinous portions of the graph not joined by 'vertical' lines as they often are with other methods (such as using an IFTE definition). The reason why it works is that the domain is a True/False test that evaluates to 1 within the domain and zero outside it. This means that within the domain the function is being divided by 1 (no effect) but outside it is being divided by zero (undefined, so not graphed). You can see some pictures of the result (on a 39G) if you go to http://www.hphomeview.com/faqs_40-49.htm#47 ==== > anyone please tell me how to enter piecewise and step functions on the > HP48GX? I'd really appreciate it. The HP48GX doesn't have the step by step mode. Only the HP49G offers this functionality. I hardly use it, so I can't comment how useful it is. > Also, is there an an way to find the second derivative directly? I've > been finding the first derivative, writing it down on paper (which can > be a pain), then entering it in again to find the second derivative. > As you can see, this leaves lots of room for human error, and it's > already cost me some points on two exams. Use the stack to do this or write a small program. Example how to do this on the stack (RAD-mode): 'SIN(X)' 'X' [r-shift]-[SIN] gives you the first derivative: 'COS(X)' put again 'X' on the stack [r-shift]-[SIN] gives you the second derivative: 'SIN(X)' ==== > anyone please tell me how to enter piecewise and step functions on the > HP48GX? I'd really appreciate it. > > The HP48GX doesn't have the step by step mode. Only the HP49G offers this > functionality. I hardly use it, so I can't comment how useful it is. Roman, I think that Jennifer was talking about the step function and in general about piece wise defined functions, and not about the step-by-step-(un)functionality of the HP49G. If this was the case, then of course it is possible to make such a piece wise defined function, which by the way the HP48 will also plot correctly. (Don#t ask here what the HP49G will plot in such cases ;-)) You can put IFTE in an algebraic, and for example define: IFTE(X>0,X,SIN(X)). If you want you can even enter for example F(X)=IFTE(X>0,X,SIN(X)) and press [DEF] to amke a user defined function. You proceed similarly with the step function, just use IFTE(X>0,1,0) or anything else. > Also, is there an an way to find the second derivative directly? I've > been finding the first derivative, writing it down on paper (which can > be a pain), then entering it in again to find the second derivative. > As you can see, this leaves lots of room for human error, and it's > already cost me some points on two exams. > > Use the stack to do this or write a small program. A small program which would look something like: << -> func var << func var gd var gd >> where gd stands for the curly d of the derivative function. ==== i need some help, where can i get a syseval address list for the HP 49G? I also need to get a good (most importantly complete) library tutorial. A.C ==== Together with the distribution of emacs110a, IÇve been reading the Emacs.txt file and thereÇs a tutorial I donÇt understand. IÇve searched google NG, but realized that I need help here because I must be too stupid to solve the problem myself :-( I do this (copied and pasted from Emacs.txt): ------------------------- 1. Press APPS, select Emacs and press the AsnEmacs key to make a few useful key assignments. In the tutorial we will use RightShift & DOWNARROW = RPLED RightShift & RIGHTARROW = RPLCPL LeftShift & LEFTARROW = SDIAG where the & means to hold down the shift key while pressing the arrow key. 2. Start writing a UserRPL program by pressing RightShift <<>>. The builtin Editor starts up. Press RightShift <<>a few more times to get more nested program delimiters (we will need them later). 3. Switch to the Emacs application menu by pressing RightShift & DOWNARROW. Press the Help key and then OK to see a chart of all Emacs commands. Press any key to go back to the command line. When I do the last thing: holding down RightShift and pressing the down-arrow-key the cursor moves down to the last line, but the emacs application doesnÇt start. When I enter the libs menu and press RPLED the editor starts just fine. IÇve now downloaded the keyman-library but nothing changes. I donÇt understand this. Could anybody please help? Martin J. ==== Have you turned on USER mode? Key assignments are only active when you are in USER mode. Press LeftShift USER (this is above the ALPHA key) in order to toggle USER mode. The mode is active if you see USR in the second headerline above the stack. - Carsten [...] MJ> When I do the last thing: holding down RightShift and pressing the MJ> down-arrow-key the cursor moves down to the last line, but the emacs MJ> application doesnÇt start. MJ> When I enter the libs menu and press RPLED the editor starts just fine. MJ> IÇve now downloaded the keyman-library but nothing changes. ==== Mini-challenge: PRIME DATE PAIRS As has been pointed out in this newsgroup, dates should be programmatically stored in the form yyyymmdd since they can be easily sorted *and* they are As you know, the only two integers on the number line which are adjacent and prime are 2 and 3. However, there are many consecutive prime date pairs on the date line, for example 20020531 and 20020601, which are adjacent days (when read as dates) and are both prime numbers (when read as 8-digit integers). This differs from ordinary prime pairs which are understood to be primes that differ by 2, such as 11 and 13. A) What are the *next* three prime date pairs (in the future)? B) What are the next three years that have TWO prime date pairs each? C) What are the next three leap-year (Feb/Mar) prime date pairs? D) What are the next three weekend (Sat/Sun) prime date pairs? E) What are the next three prime date pairs that are also prime pairs? F) Same as C above but only for years divisible by 400. G) Is it possible for a year to have THREE prime date pairs? The mini-challenge this time is to find the answers using User RPL (libraries are allowed) and share your methods and insights with the group. That way, everybody wins. 1 Bonus Point if you were born on a prime date. ==== Where can i get a Syseval address list for the HP 49G? I also need a good (most importantly complete) library tutorial, also for the 49g. ==== HP41CX (not working) plus FA-2 cassette adaptor interface for auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2304774436 ==== Is there a way on a HP 49G to find all possible sets of (x,y) in a function f: R^2->R (Two variables are needed to produce only one result.) Example: f(x,y)=(x/2)-(x*y^2)+(9*y^2) //Solution in this case: (0,0), (9,3) and (9,-3) Stefan ==== > Is there a way on a HP 49G to find all possible sets of (x,y) in a > function f: R^2->R > (Two variables are needed to produce only one result.) > > Example: > f(x,y)=(x/2)-(x*y^2)+(9*y^2) > > //Solution in this case: (0,0), (9,3) and (9,-3) > > Stefan I don't think I got that, Stefan. Do you mean to find all integer values for X,Y, such that f(X,Y) is always, say 0, or any other constant? ==== Maybe this question makes it clearer/ more precise: How can I find critical points of such a function: f(x,y)=(x/2)-(x*y^2)+(9*y^2) > Is there a way on a HP 49G to find all possible sets of (x,y) in a > function f: R^2->R > (Two variables are needed to produce only one result.) Example: > f(x,y)=(x/2)-(x*y^2)+(9*y^2) //Solution in this case: (0,0), (9,3) and (9,-3) Stefan > I don't think I got that, Stefan. Do you mean to find all integer > values for X,Y, such that f(X,Y) is always, say 0, or any other > constant? > ==== Hej Nick! Yes, that's exactly what I mean! (The values don't necessarily need to be integer values, though.) The question basically is, how I can determine the proper vaules of such a functions where it hits (0/0). Sincerely, Stefan > Is there a way on a HP 49G to find all possible sets of (x,y) in a > function f: R^2->R > (Two variables are needed to produce only one result.) Example: > f(x,y)=(x/2)-(x*y^2)+(9*y^2) //Solution in this case: (0,0), (9,3) and (9,-3) Stefan > I don't think I got that, Stefan. Do you mean to find all integer > values for X,Y, such that f(X,Y) is always, say 0, or any other > constant? > ==== On the 49G, how do I take the results on the stack and use them in the Equation Writer? Is there a way to go between the stack view and EQW and copy and paste? Say though a series of calculations I get a result in the stack of 4.9873. Now I want to use that in a complicated calculation involving square roots and fractions. EQW will let me view the equation as I build it to see if I've put it together correctly. How do I get the number in the stack into the equations in the most efficient manor? How would I work with more than one number in my stack? Another, somewhat related question: Sometime I hit a wrong button and instead of (for example) adding two terms in the EQW, I hit subtract. How do I change the '+' to a '-' ? Using the arrow buttons I end up selecting whole terms and bypassing the operatives between them. ==== <38e151e7.0301271549.103e6ee0@posting.google.com>, > On the 49G, how do I take the results on the stack and use them in the > Equation Writer? Is there a way to go between the stack view and EQW > and copy and paste? Have the stuff on the stack before entering the equation writer, then with the cursor where you want the insertion press the HIST key, and Bob's your uncle. > > Say though a series of calculations I get a result in the stack of > 4.9873. Now I want to use that in a complicated calculation involving > square roots and fractions. EQW will let me view the equation as I > build it to see if I've put it together correctly. How do I get the > number in the stack into the equations in the most efficient manor? Put it on the stack and use the directions above, or save it with some name and use the name in your equation instead of the number. EVALuating or EXPANDing will replace the name with the number. > > How would I work with more than one number in my stack? The HIST method echos the highlighted stack entry, so you can have as much on the stack as you want. > > Another, somewhat related question: Sometime I hit a wrong button and > instead of (for example) adding two terms in the EQW, I hit subtract. > How do I change the '+' to a '-' ? Using the arrow buttons I end up > selecting whole terms and bypassing the operatives between them. Use the backerror key to the right of the SYMB key to erase operations and other stuff. > > > ==== > On the 49G, how do I take the results on the stack and use them in the > Equation Writer? Is there a way to go between the stack view and EQW > and copy and paste? I press down to edit the result. Then I press [Rightshift],[begin]; [Rightshift],[rightarrow]; [Rightshift],[end]; [Rightshift],[copy]; Then I open eqw, pressing [eqw]; pressing [Rightshift], [paste] to paste the selected result/equation/whatever into EQW. I donÇt know if thereÇs a faster/more efficient way, but if there is then IÇld also like to know it :-) > How would I work with more than one number in my stack? You select as much as you want to copy using the above mentioned method. > Another, somewhat related question: Sometime I hit a wrong button and > instead of (for example) adding two terms in the EQW, I hit subtract. > How do I change the '+' to a '-' ? Using the arrow buttons I end up > selecting whole terms and bypassing the operatives between them. I press [w] = [+/-]. YouÇre welcome. ==== Does anyone know how emu48ce works with PDA's based on 400Mhz Intel Xscale processor (iPaq 3970, Siemens Loox 600) with Pocket PC 2002 OS? Can I use and store data, software (found at hpcalc.org) and work with it like on real HP48/49 calculator? ==== kruno, I have an IPAQ 3970 and run both a HP48 and HP49 emulator on the IPAQ. It runs at the same speed as a normal HP48/HP49. It is an exact reproduction has replaced my use of the actual calcs. Download the following files: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/pc/emulators/emu48ce.exe http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/pc/emulators/emu-ppc48-49.zip Install emu48ce.exe. Copy the KML scripts and BMP files from emu-ppc48-49.zip to the emu48ce directory. When starting emu48ce you can now select the ppc48/49 kml scripts. Murray. murrayrGREEN@hp.YELLOWcom > Does anyone know how emu48ce works with PDA's based on 400Mhz Intel Xscale > processor (iPaq 3970, Siemens Loox 600) with Pocket PC 2002 OS? > Can I use and store data, software (found at hpcalc.org) and work with it > like on real > HP48/49 calculator? ==== I recently purchased a second hand 48GX and it didn't come with a PC link cable. I have phoned several stores in my area (Victoria/Vancouver BC) and have had no luck locating one. I live in Canada and I would like to avoid ordering one from the States because of all the excess taxes and duty fees. If anyone knows of a Canadian website that sells them or a store located in Victoria or Vancouver BC could they please let me know. ==== Please, see the product HP1897A, in the next address : http://www.directdial.com/us/buyhp/asp/F1633A%23ABA.html Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK **************************************************************************** *** > I recently purchased a second hand 48GX and it didn't come with a PC link > cable. I have phoned several stores in my area (Victoria/Vancouver BC) and > have had no luck locating one. I live in Canada and I would like to avoid > ordering one from the States because of all the excess taxes and duty fees. > If anyone knows of a Canadian website that sells them or a store located in > Victoria or Vancouver BC could they please let me know. > ==== > Learning SysRPL fast and efficiently is IMHO possible only by hacking > other people's SysRPL programs. Examples in Programming in SysRP are > too simple and you'll never come to an end if reading it from A to Z. > Clearly, you should have it always at hand to look at the stack diagrams > etc. Write your own UserRPL program and then try to translate it to SysRPL (until there is no user xCOMMAND remain). I think that this could be a more moderated stage before hacking programs that you (maybe) barely known, and always just from a user point of view. With this approach you will learn the basis of the language and after a while can take all the juice from other people's code. Saludos Jorge M. Valenzani ==== > > I needed a cheap calc for the office, didn't need anything fancy, > > just basic > scientific. I have a HP48+, HP32SII and HP49, and > > I'm used to the quality of > the HP48 and HP32. Can't really say > > HP49 and 'quality' in the same sentence. > > > > Anyway, the I bought a HP6S, as it was very cheap, and I was curious. > > It will > You should have choosen a HP20S. > I already have a HP48GX, a HP48G+, a HP32SII, and purchased the 20S > just because it is a nice little HP calc. > The 6S is not made by HP. :-) Actually, I have a 20S too. One of the old ones with injection molded keys - I think all the current classic hp's you can still buy have painted keys. :( Pity the 20S isn't RPN. ==== > As for your criticism: > The equation r = F(n+1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) is simply false for >each n > 1 > > Of course it is! That's why I said as n tends to infinity. > > With this formulation you would not pass any university examination in > math. So what? Are you here to examine people? Nobody cares if he(she) would pass an examination especially in case you were the prof. > Learning linguistic discipline is a bacis task in math education, > and the most difficult to learn. There speaks the professor who already is such a linguistic insider that he manages to call people terrorists if they don't respect him. Mwahahaha! What a comedian! > What could clearly be said should > clearly be said. It's almost always shorter than any confusing text, in > particular in the derivation of the formula under discussion. In my 1st > reply I even accepted your confusing text and tried politely to correct > it. If I'd known your arrogance I wouldn't have done that. The only arrogant person here is you. Colin's answer was politer than you deserve. Your allergy against any no is not Colin's problem. > university professor in math would have uttered such stupid things even > if he is totally drunk. I always encourage my students in math and info > to use graphic calculators. And many students are happy doing this. So this professor encourages the usage of graphic calculators. And he is so stupid to believe that his students use the calculators because he says so. You know something professor? You could just stand on your head and jump on the ceiling to prevent your students from using graphing calculators. They wouldn't care! It doesn't matter what you tell to them. They will do as *they* want because they don't need a godfather to tell them what to do. So shut that bloody cake hole, you do nothing to make quality of education better. The only thing you do is to make your students laugh behind your back. BTW, as about quality of education in good old Germany, HA! that is a good joke. There has been a study (you know its name, don't you professorchen?), which you never mention, and which have shown how much of this quality has been destroyed by professors like you in the highest educational institutes of Germany. Your average mind and is so predictable that it hurts. If I tell you that you are going to answer this posting by correcting my grammars just to show how stupid I am, then you will say that you don't bother answering such stupid postings. If I tell you that you don't bother answering my posting, you'll reply that you'll not disagree about the stupidity of my posting. Always find something to compensate for the fact that you will never reach what you search most, acknowledgement, respect and glory. You are an unimportant job, at an unimportant university, which nobody will know and will citate, until such fossile fachidiots like you, results from a very dark time, vanish. It is not bad to be unimportant. It is stupid to hount importance. But such fossiles like you would never get the difference. You want respect professorchen? That was my respect! ==== God save me from my friends! although I can't recall it at the moment. Please, Joseph is right and I probably should not have let things get to me in the first place whether I felt justified or not. Let's just let it lie, eh? > >>>As for your criticism: >>>>>The equation r = F(n+1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) is simply false for >>>>>>>each n > 1 >>> >>>Of course it is! That's why I said as n tends to infinity. >>With this formulation you would not pass any university examination in >>math. > > > So what? Are you here to examine people? Nobody cares if he(she) would > pass an examination especially in case you were the prof. > > >>Learning linguistic discipline is a bacis task in math education, >>and the most difficult to learn. > > > There speaks the professor who already is such a linguistic insider > that he manages to call people terrorists if they don't respect > him. Mwahahaha! What a comedian! > > >>What could clearly be said should >>clearly be said. It's almost always shorter than any confusing text, in >>particular in the derivation of the formula under discussion. In my 1st >>reply I even accepted your confusing text and tried politely to correct >>it. If I'd known your arrogance I wouldn't have done that. > > > The only arrogant person here is you. Colin's answer was politer than > you deserve. Your allergy against any no is not Colin's problem. > > >>university professor in math would have uttered such stupid things even >>if he is totally drunk. I always encourage my students in math and info >>to use graphic calculators. And many students are happy doing this. > > > So this professor encourages the usage of graphic calculators. And > he is so stupid to believe that his students use the calculators > because he says so. You know something professor? You could just > stand on your head and jump on the ceiling to prevent your students > from using graphing calculators. They wouldn't care! It doesn't matter > what you tell to them. They will do as *they* want because they don't > need a godfather to tell them what to do. So shut that bloody cake > hole, you do nothing to make quality of education better. The only > thing you do is to make your students laugh behind your back. > BTW, as about quality of education in good old Germany, HA! that is > a good joke. There has been a study (you know its name, don't you > professorchen?), which you never mention, and which have shown how > much of this quality has been destroyed by professors like you in the > highest educational institutes of Germany. > > Your average mind and is so predictable that it hurts. If I tell you > that you are going to answer this posting by correcting my grammars > just to show how stupid I am, then you will say that you don't bother > answering such stupid postings. If I tell you that you don't bother > answering my posting, you'll reply that you'll not disagree about the > stupidity of my posting. Always find something to compensate for the > fact that you will never reach what you search most, acknowledgement, > respect and glory. You are an unimportant job, at an unimportant > university, which nobody will know and will citate, until such fossile > fachidiots like you, results from a very dark time, vanish. It is not > bad to be unimportant. It is stupid to hount importance. But such > fossiles like you would never get the difference. > > You want respect professorchen? That was my respect! > ==== Solidarity of the empty barrels :-) ==== REMINDER: The primary goal of the mini challenges on comp.sys.hp48 is FUN, not eternal truth or technical perfection. The newsgroup needs no moderator this in mind in future mini challenges. The winners of this contest are: 1st Place: Jonathan Busby for the 30-byte solution: << 2 / DUP SQ ROT + SQRT + >> It works on both HP48 and HP49, and returns an exact solution on the HP49 in exact mode. 2nd Place: Wolfgang Rautenberg for the 28-byte solution: << -1 UNROT ->V3 PROOT 2 GET >> This only returns an approximate answer, and requires the inputs to be in backwards order, but it's still elegant. Fixing the code to take the inputs in correct order is left as an exercise for the student. 3rd Place: Wolfgang again, for the idea of using EGVL, which he didn't code but which could be done something like this: << 1 0 { 2 2 } ->ARRY EGVL 2 GET >> This, like Jonathan's program, returns exact solutions on the 49G in exact mode, but this one seems to have the benefit of returning answers in simplified form, and the drawbacks of being slower and requiring the inputs to be in backwards order. Two unfinished business items: is: Because that's what Pell started it with. Also because, as indicated in the original post in this thread, that's what you get if you start with 0 1, just like the Fibonacci sequence. (2) Colin & Wolfgang: shake hands and play nice. You're both highly valued members of the comp.sys.hp48 community, but don't let your eG0BEEP. ;-) ==== i'd like to ask why all people in this group seem to think that the RPN mode is better than algebraic mode. i've played with the RPN mode and i think it's pretty good for short simple calculations but can't understand how it could be better in more complex calculations: - when doing a complex calculation, one can easily forget what was the last entry and in RPN mode he has no visual way to learn what entry to continue from - one must at first analyze the formula and then enter its parts as to get round unability to use parentheses - the programs written in RPN mode tend to be somewhat hard to read as all modern programming is done in algebraic mode i know there must be something to RPN mode - i just haven't come across an explanation why - would you please enlighten me? thanks in advance, -- fuf ==== When I taught calculator use to high schoolers (many ywars ago), they liked RPN because it mimicked the pencil-and-paper order of operations. Programs in RPN seem in general to take about half as many keystrokes as programs in algebraic. ==== > i'd like to ask why all people in this group seem to think that the RPN > mode is better than algebraic mode. > - when doing a complex calculation, one can easily forget what was > the last entry and in RPN mode he has no visual way to learn what > entry to continue from Most algebraic machines have this same problem. But I definitely lose track when entering formulae into algebraic machines. > - one must at first analyze the formula and then enter its parts as > to get round unability to use parentheses One does? I've never had to do this. You just enter it as you would evaluate it if using paper and pencil. > - the programs written in RPN mode tend to be somewhat hard to read > as all modern programming is done in algebraic mode No. Real programming is done using languages such as C, Perl, Fortran, etc. (:-). Face it, calculators have lots of problems when it comes to programming, and the choice of modes doesn't really affect things that much. However, both RPN and RPL have the advantage that they are soothly extensible and so programming can be grafted onto basic calculations. For example, I don't consider this to be a particularly readable program: if(s(DAYS),DAYS,if(s(x360D),x360D,x365D))+0*TODAY*l(TODAY,CDATE)} (It does date arithmetic on an HP27S/17B/17BII/19B/19BII solver.) > i know there must be something to RPN mode - i just haven't come across > an explanation why - would you please enlighten me? Probably, whatever mode you learned first is what is easy and obvious. Craig ==== > ... Is there any way to 'word wrap' the line in the text viewer? The following is a very fast argument protected string viewer for very long strings (like 3.1415... or the 9999! string) which do not contain linebreaks (i.e. newline characters). It displays pi to 500 decimals in less than .3 sec in full screen display which can nicely be scrolled vertically. Each filled line has 32 characters. 50 bytes, CRC ACB6h. :: DUPTYPECSTR? NcaseTYPEERR NULL$SWAP BEGIN DUPONE BINT32 SUB$ NEWLINE$&$ ROTSWAP !append$SWAP BINT33 LAST$ DUPNULL$? UNTIL DROPFALSE SWAP ViewStrObject DROP ; It works for any strings, but may insert some additional linebreaks. If - Wolfgang PS. This is a good and not too difficult example for those who want to learn SysRPL. Just put in a xHALT right after BEGIN and another one just after UNTIL, because these two commands affect the return stack. When reaching UNTIL in debugging, press CONT ! ==== > > P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the > > calculator? > > I calculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35 minutes > = 2.8556hours! > Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because > XPON doesn't > work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)? > > Ivan, is that a turbo charged HP40? > > > The speed is ok: On my 40G it took 10320.7 seconds (2h 52min) to get the result. Unfortunately, up to now I didn't find an easy way to show the number of digits either... Axel ==== >I wish I had a printer to pring the result. Is there anyway to >'word wrap' the line in the text viewer? Only thing I can think of: > << ->STR > -> str wordwrapstr > << > WHILE > str SIZE 30 > @Number of chars per line = 30. Change as you > wish. > REPEAT > 'wordwrapstr' > str 1 30 SUB STO+ > 'wordwrapstr' > > STO+ @Add new line char num 10 > str 31 OVER SIZE SUB > 'str' STO > END > wordwrapstr str + Hey this is kind of neat. I might use it :) -- Al ==== >I was wondering how mine could have taken 30 something hours when the >real 49g >did within 24 hours. > Even 24 hours are too much compared to the 3 hours that ivan reported. > Is the HP40 so much faster? By within 24 hours I meant that it did it any time from 0 hours to 24 hours. I am still unsure of exactly how long it took. I would assume it would be equal ==== In message , Nick >Oh, and about number of digits, ->STR SIZE could work. No strings and therefore no string commands on the 39 and 40. -- k ==== > In message , Nick >Oh, and about number of digits, ->STR SIZE could work. > > No strings and therefore no string commands on the 39 and 40. > What? Oh no! Then the only thing I can think of is sum(log(n),n=1,9999). Or do these calcs have also no sums? ==== >> P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the >> calculator? I calculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35 minutes >= 2.8556hours! > Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because > XPON doesn't > work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)? Look into logarithms. Logarithm returns the number of zeros, but how to get the exact number of digits. In numeric mode hp40g return 500 for log(9999!) SIZE and XPON don't work the right way!!? ==== > > Logarithm returns the number of zeros, but how to get the exact number of > digits. > No it doesnt. floor(log(x))+1 gives the number of digits in base 10. In numeric mode hp40g return 500 for log(9999!) > If you knew more, you'd also know that log(a*b)=log(a)+log(b). Now just sum up log(1)+log(2)+...+log(9999) = log(9999!). ==== Is it possible, using KeyMan, to assign single press & double click & long press to the same key? Something like: if double do 1 else if long do 2 else do 3 ?? ==== I have an HP-48GX with a crack in the LCD screen. Otherwise everything works fine. Can anyone tell me if it can be fixed or even if it would be worth it? If not does anyone have any ideas as to what ==== I'll look at my options and see how it goes. Your suggestions were helpful. eshylay ==== > you could also use Archiv 1.01, ... ItÇs a tiny tool IMHO, a lib of 3.8 bytes for a single task is not at all a tiny tool :-) IMHO, 3.8 bytes is nothing. Perhaps you meant 3.8 KB? -- Bhuvanesh ==== > you could also use Archiv 1.01, ... ItÇs a tiny tool > IMHO, a lib of 3.8 bytes for a single task is not at all a tiny tool > IMHO, 3.8 bytes is nothing. Perhaps you meant 3.8 KB? of the filers is on my site. Therein, the ARCHIVE/RESTORE choose box which appears over a port browser looks as follows, in Port2 say: |----------| |Port:2 | |----------| |ARCHIVE | |RESTORE | |SavePort0 | |RestPort0 | |----------| The content of Port0 can be saved in an arbitrary port. As for ARCHIVE, one may create several Port0 backups in an arbitrary port while Andreas allows only Port2. Note that ARCHIVE and SavePort0 work independently on each-other. And SavePort0 stores in a Port0 backup a file or a library together with its untagged name only. This saves bytes for the user. Everything is as fast as it can be, i.e. not slower than the filer tools in general. This is partly due to Werner's return-stack trick which is applied in the filers several times. I need ML only in the Search option which is on the ALPHA key by now. This is the *only* use of ALPHA in my filers, in contrast to the builtin filer where many keys have also an ALPHA shifted functionality which, IMHO, unnecessarily complicates the filer. Both filers are < 2 KB though they obsolate in a sense Andreas's library and several other tools, in particular most hiding facilities. For saving and restoring Port0, I need less than 150 bytes, not 3.8 KB. Andreas still prvides an elaborated memory control which, according to my experience, is not anymore required in ROM 19-6. - Wolfgang ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/tools/ ==== > Moreover, it seems that archiving that covers port 0 > is useful for special tasks only. > IMHO it is usefull in general, because PORT0 is the fastest port and > PORT2 is the savest port, while programming on the calc can lead to a > TTRM once in a while the last calc-status can easily be restored. programmers, but perhaps not in general. I meanwhile added two options (ArchivePort0 and RestorePort0) to the ARCHIVE/RESTORE browser of my filers (thanks for the idea). Nonetheless, these do not exceed 2 KB :) I cannot help saying that your programming style is fairly redundant, often observed in programs made with Debug2. IMHO, a tool should also minimize additional memory cost for using them. E.g., the port0-objects are saved in port2 with their tagged names in a list. This means a lot of extra bytes if port0 is long. Why tagged? The program itself could retag them. One should not overestimate the capacity of port2. With a few libs like extable or HPDemo, MIG musics, some games and greyscale pictures (not to forget long lib-sources) it fills up very quickly :-) ==== > Mama mia! Do we have all now? Here's another one! Assume that two linear equations in X and Y are on the stack. << 'X' ISOL DUP UNROT SUBST 'Y' ISOL DUP UNROT SUBST EVAL > That's the substitution method we learned as children. It can be extended to solve a 3x3 system by adding another line, or to an NxN system by putting the whole thing in a loop. That's precisely the kind of homework (writing such programs) that I assigned to my students to help them learn the substitution method back in the days when we used HP programmable calculators in the classroom. *sigh* Gone are the days. ;-( , , , ==== > Mama mia! Do we have all now? Here's another one! Assume that two linear equations in X and Y are on the > stack. << 'X' ISOL DUP UNROT SUBST > 'Y' ISOL DUP UNROT SUBST EVAL > That's the substitution method we learned as children. It can be extended > to solve a 3x3 system by adding another line, or to an NxN system by putting > the whole thing in a loop. Nice! So the didactic part has also its representants. > That's precisely the kind of homework (writing > such programs) that I assigned to my students to help them learn the > substitution method back in the days when we used HP programmable > calculators in the classroom. Those happy fellas! > *sigh* Gone are the days. And even more *sigh*, I never had the luck to be in such a class! The days ended before I could see them starting. But after all, this group simply refuses to vanish! Defenders of the faith :-) ==== > Is there a command to complete the square? > sum or difference of squares. > GAUSS and its relatives seem to work only with X,Y and not with a single variable. For instance, if you put in 'X^2+2*X', it returns X^2 instead of the expected (X+1)^2-1. I'll have to root through the AUG for a while... worked really well on my 48 (thanks, Aaron!). Maybe the 49 needs one too. ==== Apologies if someone already mentioned this: from http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030123/230090_1.html Press Release Source: HP HP Expands Its Calculator Line With Two New Offerings Thursday January 23, 11:01 am ET Powerful Graphic and Scientific Calculators Provide the Answers for Education Users News) today introduced two easy-to-use algebraic calculators designed specifically for the education market. The powerful calculators are also the first products to be launched as part of HP's wider plans to enhance and develop a full range of RPN (Reverse Polish Notation) and algebraic calculators for education and financial users. The HP 9g graphing calculator is an ideal entry-level tool for secondary school students or for anyone requiring the ability to graph and solve simple equations. HP has included the functionality and convenience of a split screen for equations and graphing; a programmable feature allowing users to enter their own data and computations; a graphing key; quick and easy metric conversions; and the ability to work in a variety of system modes. The HP 9s scientific calculator is suited for the everyday user and middle and secondary school students solving basic math and science and related problems. It offers convenience and ease of use for everything from solving metric conversion problems to balancing a checkbook. Key product features include six common metric conversions, decimal point selection, four basic operation modes and a one-touch button to edit statistics. The HP 9s and HP 9g are just the beginning of what we have in store for our customers throughout the coming year, said Fred Valdez, general manager, Calculator Division, HP Personal Systems Group. We've accelerated our product development plans and begun working with our new aggressive sales and marketing partners around the world. HP is partnering on sales and marketing with New Age Distributors in North America and Mexico, MORAVIA Consulting in Europe and Asia-Pacific and Abboud Trading in Latin America. The HP 9g and the HP 9s calculators are available in stores now at U.S. manufacturers' suggested retail prices of $39.95 and $14.99, respectively.(1) HP, the company that invented the scientific handheld calculator, offers a comprehensive range of calculators designed for math and science students, engineers, scientists, and financial and business consultants. More information about HP's entire range of calculators is available at http://www.hp.com/go/calculators. About HP HP is a leading global provider of products, technologies, solutions and services to consumers and businesses. The company's offerings span IT infrastructure, personal computing and access devices, global services and imaging and printing. HP completed its merger transaction involving Compaq Computer Corporation on May 3, 2002. More information about HP is available at http://www.hp.com. (1) Actual prices may vary. This news release contains forward-looking statements that involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions. All statements other than statements of historical fact are statements that could be deemed forward-looking statements. Risks, uncertainties and assumptions include the possibility that the market for the sale of certain products and services may not develop as expected; that development and performance of these products and services may not proceed as planned; and other risks that are described from time to time in HP's Securities and Exchange Commission reports, including but not limited to HP's quarterly report on Form 10-Q for the quarter ended July 31, 2002 and reports filed subsequent to HP's annual report on Form 10-K, as amended on January 30, 2002, for the fiscal year ended October 31, 2001. If any of these risks or uncertainties materializes or any of these assumptions proves incorrect, HP's results could differ materially from HP's expectations in these statements. HP assumes no obligation to update these forward-looking statements. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Contact: HP Lee-Khuan Goh, 858/655-3903 lee-khuan_goh@hp.com or Porter Novelli for HP Andrea Iraheta, 212/601-8162 andrea.iraheta@porternovelli.com ==== >We've accelerated our product development plans and begun working with >our new aggressive sales and marketing partners around the world. I'd rather deal with a nice salesman than an aggressive one... :-) Oh yeah: hint to other posters in this thread: a one-word comment *does not* require the whole press release to be quoted. -- k ==== >We've accelerated our product development plans and begun working with >our new aggressive sales and marketing partners around the world. I'd rather deal with a nice salesman than an aggressive one... :-) Maybe this is how HP plans to compensate for the trash they've been putting on market. Instead of spending more dollars to make quality products, they spend those dollars to convince you that their stuff isn't really trash, even though it looks and feels like it. Aaron ==== Sorry. -- Thierry Morissette thm47@msn.com ==== Powerful? -- Thierry Morissette thm47@msn.com > Apologies if someone already mentioned this: from http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030123/230090_1.html Press Release Source: HP > HP Expands Its Calculator Line With Two New Offerings > Thursday January 23, 11:01 am ET > Powerful Graphic and Scientific Calculators Provide the Answers for Education Users > News) today introduced two easy-to-use algebraic calculators designed > specifically for the education market. The powerful calculators are > also the first products to be launched as part of HP's wider plans to > enhance and develop a full range of RPN (Reverse Polish Notation) and > algebraic calculators for education and financial users. The HP 9g graphing calculator is an ideal entry-level tool for secondary school students or for anyone requiring the ability to graph and solve simple equations. HP has included the functionality and convenience of a split screen for equations and graphing; a programmable feature allowing users to enter their own data and computations; a graphing key; quick and easy metric conversions; and the ability to work in a variety of system modes. The HP 9s scientific calculator is suited for the everyday user and > middle and secondary school students solving basic math and science > and related problems. It offers convenience and ease of use for > everything from solving metric conversion problems to balancing a > checkbook. Key product features include six common metric conversions, > decimal point selection, four basic operation modes and a one-touch > button to edit statistics. The HP 9s and HP 9g are just the beginning of what we have in store > for our customers throughout the coming year, said Fred Valdez, > general manager, Calculator Division, HP Personal Systems > Group. We've accelerated our product development plans and begun > working with our new aggressive sales and marketing partners around > the world. HP is partnering on sales and marketing with New Age Distributors in > North America and Mexico, MORAVIA Consulting in Europe and > Asia-Pacific and Abboud Trading in Latin America. The HP 9g and the HP 9s calculators are available in stores now at > U.S. manufacturers' suggested retail prices of $39.95 and $14.99, > respectively.(1) HP, the company that invented the scientific handheld calculator, > offers a comprehensive range of calculators designed for math and > science students, engineers, scientists, and financial and business > consultants. More information about HP's entire range of calculators > is available at http://www.hp.com/go/calculators. About HP HP is a leading global provider of products, technologies, solutions > and services to consumers and businesses. The company's offerings span > IT infrastructure, personal computing and access devices, global > services and imaging and printing. HP completed its merger transaction > involving Compaq Computer Corporation on May 3, 2002. More information > about HP is available at http://www.hp.com. (1) Actual prices may vary. > This news release contains forward-looking statements that involve > risks, uncertainties and assumptions. All statements other than > statements of historical fact are statements that could be deemed > forward-looking statements. Risks, uncertainties and assumptions > include the possibility that the market for the sale of certain > products and services may not develop as expected; that development > and performance of these products and services may not proceed as > planned; and other risks that are described from time to time in HP's > Securities and Exchange Commission reports, including but not limited > to HP's quarterly report on Form 10-Q for the quarter ended July 31, > 2002 and reports filed subsequent to HP's annual report on Form 10-K, > as amended on January 30, 2002, for the fiscal year ended October 31, > 2001. If any of these risks or uncertainties materializes or any of > these assumptions proves incorrect, HP's results could differ > materially from HP's expectations in these statements. HP assumes no > obligation to update these forward-looking statements. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > Contact: > HP > Lee-Khuan Goh, 858/655-3903 > lee-khuan_goh@hp.com > or > Porter Novelli for HP > Andrea Iraheta, 212/601-8162 > andrea.iraheta@porternovelli.com ==== Thierry Morissette schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Powerful? > Of course, compared to a four-banger. Seriously, I think they aren't that bad, except they're lacking RPN & the big ENTER key;-) Raymond > -- > Thierry Morissette > thm47@msn.com Apologies if someone already mentioned this: from http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030123/230090_1.html Press Release Source: HP > HP Expands Its Calculator Line With Two New Offerings > Thursday January 23, 11:01 am ET > Powerful Graphic and Scientific Calculators Provide the Answers for > Education Users [..] I downloaded menulibs.txt from www.hpcalc.org. It was created by J.Horn and contains an excellent list of HP 49G menu titles and menu numbers. Since it is dated 17 June 2000 and is based on ROM 1.19-1, I was wondering if there is an update available based on ROM 1.19-6?? GC. ==== > I downloaded menulibs.txt from www.hpcalc.org. It was created by J.Horn and > contains an excellent list of HP 49G menu titles and menu numbers. Since it is > dated 17 June 2000 and is based on ROM 1.19-1, I was wondering if there is an > update available based on ROM 1.19-6?? > GC. According to Joe's post of the 23rd (Method of Partial Fractions thread), he's updated his HP49 text files. He didn't say if he uploaded them to hpcalc, but they're on his web site and he included the link in his post. ==== hi everybody, i would like to connect my hp82240a infrared printer to a pc. has anybody of you ever tried to do that or knows the protocol of the printer interface or the lower ir - protocol? thanks for all hints! ==== It's my first posting in this forum I hope I'm not a stupid man? I cannot add some days to an date in HP49 G I use the calculator since 2 days. Mode is ALG not RPN 1) 21,32001 in Diplay 2) CAT > Display DATE+ is activated 3) OK press 4) Display 21,32001 DATE+( ) 5) 25 in Diplay so that 6) Display 21,32001 DATE+(25) 7) ENTER 8) Message: DATE+ Error Too Few Arguments What's wrong in my work??? Hans Joachim (Ger) ==== jochen schrieb im Newsbeitrag It's my first posting in this forum > I hope I'm not a stupid man? I cannot add some days to an date in HP49 G > I use the calculator since 2 days. Mode is ALG not RPN 1) 21,32001 in Diplay > 2) CAT > Display DATE+ is activated > 3) OK press > 4) Display 21,32001 DATE+( ) > 5) 25 in Diplay so that > 6) Display 21,32001 DATE+(25) > 7) ENTER > 8) Message: DATE+ Error Too Few Arguments What's wrong in my work??? > Since I never used ALG mode, I'd suggest to switch to RPN first. Then adding days to a date is a trivial task. If you have entered 21,32001 as you did, you'll get an error because it's not a valid date format. Please enter 21,032001 and everything will go fine. This is because the year part starts in the third place to the right of the decimal sign. To add days to a given date, just put the number of days in level 1, then perform DATE+ That's all. Raymond ==== thanks for the fast answers of both ;-) Now it works. BUT yesterday I have done the calculation in the same way as the handbook say. By the way I think that the documentation of the HP49 G is very bad. The handbooks of HP48 GX or HP48 SX is mutch better, I know both. The information in the earlier handbooks is more detailed. Now I will say that it's good that I found this living newsgroup to help me with small problems in the future ;-) Hans Joachim (Ger) jochen schrieb im Newsbeitrag It's my first posting in this forum > I hope I'm not a stupid man? I cannot add some days to an date in HP49 G > I use the calculator since 2 days. Mode is ALG not RPN 1) 21,32001 in Diplay > 2) CAT > Display DATE+ is activated > 3) OK press > 4) Display 21,32001 DATE+( ) > 5) 25 in Diplay so that > 6) Display 21,32001 DATE+(25) > 7) ENTER > 8) Message: DATE+ Error Too Few Arguments What's wrong in my work??? Since I never used ALG mode, I'd suggest to switch to RPN first. > Then adding days to a date is a trivial task. If you have entered 21,32001 as you did, > you'll get an error because it's not a valid date format. > Please enter 21,032001 and everything will go fine. This is because the year part starts in the > third place to the right of the decimal sign. To add days to a given date, just put the number of days in level 1, > then perform DATE+ That's all. > Raymond ==== DATE+ takes two(2) arguments. for example in ALG mode do : DATE+(date, date to add) Demo By the way, NOONE USES ALG MODE :-) once you get used to RPN, you will understand why.... -- Demo Fight the spam, click on the link! http://www.hostedscripts.com/scripts/antispam.html Fight Spam! Click Here! Raymond Del Tondo p.92se v diskusn.92m jochen schrieb im Newsbeitrag It's my first posting in this forum > I hope I'm not a stupid man? I cannot add some days to an date in HP49 G > I use the calculator since 2 days. Mode is ALG not RPN 1) 21,32001 in Diplay > 2) CAT > Display DATE+ is activated > 3) OK press > 4) Display 21,32001 DATE+( ) > 5) 25 in Diplay so that > 6) Display 21,32001 DATE+(25) > 7) ENTER > 8) Message: DATE+ Error Too Few Arguments What's wrong in my work??? Since I never used ALG mode, I'd suggest to switch to RPN first. > Then adding days to a date is a trivial task. If you have entered 21,32001 as you did, > you'll get an error because it's not a valid date format. > Please enter 21,032001 and everything will go fine. This is because the year part starts in the > third place to the right of the decimal sign. To add days to a given date, just put the number of days in level 1, > then perform DATE+ That's all. > Raymond -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== Do you want the recursion which takes ~ 20min. to calculate on HP48 to get all digits correct ? Or some kind of simplified expresion(which I haven't found yet:-) ? -- Demo Fight the spam, click on the link! http://www.hostedscripts.com/scripts/antispam.html Fight Spam! Click Here! Joseph K. Horn p.92.8ae v diskusn.92m p[CapitalThorn].92sp.9evku > Is it a new Mini-challenge for RPL programmers? > Or is it mathematical recreation for number aficionados? It's BOTH! > ===== BACKGROUND ===== Everybody knows about the famous, fabulous Fibonacci sequence that starts > like this: 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 ... Each Fibonacci number is obtained by adding the previous two Fibonacci > numbers; for example, the 55 was obtained by adding 21+34. Therefore, the > next Fibonacci number is 34+55 which is 89. If we call F(N) the Nth Fibonacci number, then the recursive formula is: F(0) = 0 > F(1) = 1 > F(N) = 1*F(N-2) + 1*F(N-1) Why are those 1*s in there? Because of what's to follow... stay tuned... One of the interesting things about Fibonacci numbers is the ratio of > consecutive terms, F(N)/F(N-1): 1/1 = 1 > 2/1 = 2 > 3/2 = 1.5 > 5/3 = 1.66666666666... > 8/5 = 1.6 > 13/8 = 1.625 > 21/13 = 1.6153846153846... > 34/21 = 1.6190476190476... > 55/34 = 1.6176470588235... > 89/55 = 1.6181818181818... As you can see, the successive ratios alternate between getting bigger and > getting smaller, approaching some number as a limit. That number is called > the golden ratio (or golden mean), which is exactly equal to > (1+sqrt(5))/2, approximately 1.6180339887498948482... Fibonacci numbers and their ratios are well known. Less well known are Pell > numbers and their ratios. The Pell sequence starts like this: 1 2 5 12 29 70 169 408 985 ... Each Pell number is obtained by adding *twice* the previous number to the > number before that; for example, the 70 is obtained by doubling 29 and then > adding 12. Therefore, the next Pell number is 408 + 2*985 which is 2378. If we call P(N) the Nth Pell number, then the recursive formula is: P(0) = 0 > P(1) = 1 > P(N) = 1*P(N-2) + 2*P(N-1) Note well: this is identical to the definition of the Fibonacci sequence, > except instead of 1* and 1* in the last line, this one has 1* and 2*. The ratio of consecutive Pell numbers exhibits a behavior similar to what we > saw with the Fibonacci numbers above. Successive P(N)/P(N-1) are: 2/1 = 2 > 5/2 = 2.5 > 12/5 = 2.4 > 29/12 = 2.416666666666666... > 70/29 = 2.41379310344827586... > 169/70 = 2.414285714285714... > 408/169 = 2.41420118343195... > 985/408 = 2.4142156862745... > 2378/985 = 2.414213197969543... Does the fractional part look familiar? It should. The process is > approaching the limit of sqrt(2)+1. Now, suppose we generalize this. Instead of 1* or 2*, use X* and Y* in the > definition of the sequence. Would the ratio of consecutive terms still > approach a limit? Yes. Can a User4 RPL program be written to find that > limit? Yes. Can *you* write such a program? Yes. Can you write the > *best* program? Maybe! > ===== THE MINI-CHALLENGE ===== Write a User RPL program that Generalizes the above process for the > Generalized Sequence, namely, it takes X and Y as inputs, and returns the > ratio of G(N+1)/G(N) as N approaches infinity, where G(N) is defined by the > recursive formula: G(0) = 0 > G(1) = 1 > G(N) = X*G(N-2) + Y*G(N-1) Input: X and Y > Output: limit of G(N)/G(N-1) as N approaches infinity. Examples: Input: 1 1 <--- the Fibonacci sequence > Output: (1+sqrt(5))/2 Input: 1 2 <--- the Pell sequence > Output: 1+sqrt(2) Input: 2 1 <--- the sequence { 1 1 3 5 11 21 43 ... } > Output: 2 Input: 2 2 <--- the sequence { 1 2 6 16 44 120 ... } > Output: 1+sqrt(3) There will be two winners: the smallest HP48 User RPL program that returns > the correct answer in *decimal* form, and the smallest HP49 User RPL program > that returns the correct answer in *exact* form. Happy Programming! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== > Do you want the recursion which takes ~ 20min. to calculate > on HP48 to get all digits correct ? Or some kind of simplified > expresion(which I haven't found yet:-) ? Whichever you prefer. Remember, the *smallest* one wins, not the fastest. ==== > I've got a 48g that won't turn on or off reliably. It appears that the ON > button contacts stick together. If I spray contact cleaner through the gaps > around the key to clean off the contact, is it going to mess up or destroy > anything in the calculator? Should I remove the batteries (thus losing all > my programs) during this process? > I have cleaned the keys on a HP48SX successfully with tuner cleaner from Radio Shack, I do not remember it's exact name but it came in a red spray can with a straw. I took the sx outside and sprayed the keyboard until the solvent ran clear. I left it hanging vertically for several hours until it dried out. Oh, I removed the batteries just in case! The SX work fine for several months. I do not know about long term because it it was stolen. I have 2 SX's and a GX. The SX rules! ==== ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????ò? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ??????????????????????????????????????? ==== IÇve for a very long time had some problems with my calc restarting, but now > IÇve got a brand new hp49G calc and loaded it with the library of equations > 0.1 from hpcalc.org and it didnÇt take long before my calc did a soft > reboot again. What does everybody else have to say about that? > I use James Purdy's eql49r27 and it doesn't seem to cause any problems, other than an annoying advertisement for itself that appears with every warmstart, but I removed that from $CONFIG. The library has all (or nearly all) the equations from the HP48 library. ==== > I use James Purdy's eql49r27 and it doesn't seem to cause any > problems, other than an annoying advertisement for itself that appears > with every warmstart, but I removed that from $CONFIG. The library > has all (or nearly all) the equations from the HP48 library. Damn! I hoped I could figure it out myself, but now I have to ask how I remove that annoying advertisement from $CONFIG... IÇve searched google groups for questions about that but I find it hard to get an answer, unfortunately... IÇve also installed a library called bios49, which I also canÇt figure out how to get rid of when warmstarting my calc... I hope someone please could help me... (IÇm not too lazy to read the manuals, but IÇve just collected so many, that I canÇt manage to read them all...) > Martin J. ==== > I hoped I could figure it out myself, but now I have to ask how I remove > that > annoying advertisement from $CONFIG... I'll just give an outline, since I don't know your skill level and don't want to plow you under if you're new at it. You'll need OT49 or other library splitter (Wolfgang's programs are as good as they get). Assuming OT49: put the library number on the stack and use the D<->L command to write it into Port 0 (Home dir) as a directory. Overwrite $CONFIG with this little program: << libnum ATTACH >, where libnum is the equation library number (I can't remember what it is). Use D<->L again from inside the new version's directory and you'll have the eq library back on the stack with the changes made. If you store it in Port 0, the calc will attach it first and ignore the original, which I assume you have in Port 1 or 2. Once you've confirmed that the new version works okay, you can purge the original and move the new one to Port 1 or 2. Good luck, ==== > You'll need OT49 or other library splitter (Wolfgang's programs are as > good as they get). That solved the problem... Very interesting, that OT49 program! I think IÇll have to work some more with this one :-) Martin J. ==== > IÇve also installed a library called bios49, which I also canÇt figure out > how to > get rid of when warmstarting my calc... Cool... now IÇve found out, that I should just delete the STARTUP variable for this one... But still, as far for $CONFIG, I donÇt understand what to do... I hope I shouldnÇt compile the library all over from the source code, as I expect one would do when changing program code for normal computer-code programs. Martin J. ==== > I use James Purdy's eql49r27 and it doesn't seem to cause any > problems, other than an annoying advertisement for itself that appears > with every warmstart, but I removed that from $CONFIG. The library > has all (or nearly all) the equations from the HP48 library. IÇve tried that one, now... It seems like the formulas are the same. I hope youÇre right, that this one has no problems... IÇve just tried it for about 5 minutes and it returned a memory insufficient message... Hmm. It better not be my calc, which is faulty, since IÇve just got a brand new one.... Hope to hearing from others, if theyÇre experiencing similar problems with equation libraryÇs... Martin J. ==== Today I searched the web and on http://www.hpmuseum.org/saturn.htm there is something about C compiler under construction. Has anyone ever seen it ? And also on this site http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/48faq-8.html (8.2 Is there ...) but the link is broken, does anyone have it ? Demo Fight the spam, click on the link! http://www.hostedscripts.com/scripts/antispam.html Fight Spam! Click Here! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== I've been trying to simpify the following EXP(3*LN(10)*5^X) on the 49G CAS. I believe the result should be 100^(5^X) if you simplify it with EXP2POW, but it does not do this. Is there any way to simplify this or write a program that could simplify equations of these types? It would be much easier with larger equations. I wouldn't have to think too hard ;) After all, I think simplification abilities are necessary for any CAS. Sometimes it is tricky to get the 49G to display the 'desired' result. -- Al ==== I've been trying to simpify the following EXP(3*LN(10)*5^X) on the 49G CAS. I believe the result should be 100^(5^X) 1000^(5^X), perhaps. -- Al ==== The good old 48 gives 99,9999999992^(5^X) using COLCT EXPAN COLCT Using the old Eq editor's algebraic rules, you can get the exact solution: 100^(5*X) ==== A little bit of pencil and paper algebra goes a long way (or is that not allowed in this sort of challenge?). For the normal Fibonacci sequence, F(n)=1*F(n-1)+1*F(n-2), we assume that at the limit as n->infinity, we have r = F(n+1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1). Rearranging gives: [F(n)+F(n-1)]/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) => F(n)/F(n) + F(n-1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) => 1 + 1/r = r => r^2 - r -1 = 0 => r = (1 +/- sqrt5)/2 In this case, because of the way the problem was set up, r = (1+sqrt5)/2 You can do a similar process for any such formula. For example, it is quite easy to use this method to demonstrate that the ratio for the Pell sequence is 1+sqrt2. In general, if the formula is F(n)=a*F(n-1) + b*F(n-2) then the value is given by: r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 Not having a 49G I can't give you a program for this but I would imagine that the formula would make it pretty compact. I suppose the real challenge is that we know that a and b are not just any values but are sequential elements of the Fibonacci sequence. The question therefore is - can this expression for r be simplified further by using this fact? > Is it a new Mini-challenge for RPL programmers? > Or is it mathematical recreation for number aficionados? It's BOTH! > ===== BACKGROUND ===== Everybody knows about the famous, fabulous Fibonacci sequence that starts > like this: 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 ... > > Each Fibonacci number is obtained by adding the previous two Fibonacci > numbers; for example, the 55 was obtained by adding 21+34. Therefore, the > next Fibonacci number is 34+55 which is 89. If we call F(N) the Nth Fibonacci number, then the recursive formula is: F(0) = 0 > F(1) = 1 > F(N) = 1*F(N-2) + 1*F(N-1) Why are those 1*s in there? Because of what's to follow... stay tuned... One of the interesting things about Fibonacci numbers is the ratio of > consecutive terms, F(N)/F(N-1): 1/1 = 1 > 2/1 = 2 > 3/2 = 1.5 > 5/3 = 1.66666666666... > 8/5 = 1.6 > 13/8 = 1.625 > 21/13 = 1.6153846153846... > 34/21 = 1.6190476190476... > 55/34 = 1.6176470588235... > 89/55 = 1.6181818181818... As you can see, the successive ratios alternate between getting bigger and > getting smaller, approaching some number as a limit. That number is called > the golden ratio (or golden mean), which is exactly equal to > (1+sqrt(5))/2, approximately 1.6180339887498948482... Fibonacci numbers and their ratios are well known. Less well known are Pell > numbers and their ratios. The Pell sequence starts like this: 1 2 5 12 29 70 169 408 985 ... Each Pell number is obtained by adding *twice* the previous number to the > number before that; for example, the 70 is obtained by doubling 29 and then > adding 12. Therefore, the next Pell number is 408 + 2*985 which is 2378. If we call P(N) the Nth Pell number, then the recursive formula is: P(0) = 0 > P(1) = 1 > P(N) = 1*P(N-2) + 2*P(N-1) Note well: this is identical to the definition of the Fibonacci sequence, > except instead of 1* and 1* in the last line, this one has 1* and 2*. The ratio of consecutive Pell numbers exhibits a behavior similar to what we > saw with the Fibonacci numbers above. Successive P(N)/P(N-1) are: 2/1 = 2 > 5/2 = 2.5 > 12/5 = 2.4 > 29/12 = 2.416666666666666... > 70/29 = 2.41379310344827586... > 169/70 = 2.414285714285714... > 408/169 = 2.41420118343195... > 985/408 = 2.4142156862745... > 2378/985 = 2.414213197969543... Does the fractional part look familiar? It should. The process is > approaching the limit of sqrt(2)+1. Now, suppose we generalize this. Instead of 1* or 2*, use X* and Y* in the > definition of the sequence. Would the ratio of consecutive terms still > approach a limit? Yes. Can a User4 RPL program be written to find that > limit? Yes. Can *you* write such a program? Yes. Can you write the > *best* program? Maybe! > ===== THE MINI-CHALLENGE ===== Write a User RPL program that Generalizes the above process for the > Generalized Sequence, namely, it takes X and Y as inputs, and returns the > ratio of G(N+1)/G(N) as N approaches infinity, where G(N) is defined by the > recursive formula: G(0) = 0 > G(1) = 1 > G(N) = X*G(N-2) + Y*G(N-1) Input: X and Y > Output: limit of G(N)/G(N-1) as N approaches infinity. Examples: Input: 1 1 <--- the Fibonacci sequence > Output: (1+sqrt(5))/2 Input: 1 2 <--- the Pell sequence > Output: 1+sqrt(2) Input: 2 1 <--- the sequence { 1 1 3 5 11 21 43 ... } > Output: 2 Input: 2 2 <--- the sequence { 1 2 6 16 44 120 ... } > Output: 1+sqrt(3) There will be two winners: the smallest HP48 User RPL program that returns > the correct answer in *decimal* form, and the smallest HP49 User RPL program > that returns the correct answer in *exact* form. Happy Programming! > > ==== > In general, if the formula is F(n)=a*F(n-1) + b*F(n-2) then the value is > given by: r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 Perhaps an interesting challenge might be to write a program that will take as input any given surd such as root 2 and give as output the appropriate pair of consecutive Fibonacci numbers that will give (plus or minus a fraction) a fractional approximation to that surd and the fraction which approximates it correctly to n decimal places. For example, we saw earlier that using {1,2} (the Pell sequence) gives root2+1, so an input of root2 into our new challenge should output {1,2} with an adjustment of -1. Using this, and the Pell sequence of {1,2,5,12,29,70,169...} the approximations to root2 become: 2/1-1 = 1 5/2-1 = 3/2 (1.5) 12/5-1 = 7/5 (1.4) 29/12-1 = 17/12 (1.416666) and the fraction which approximates root 2 to 4 decimal places is: 169/70-1 = 99/70. I have no idea whether this is even possible, it just seemed an interesting extension of the problem. However, there needs to be a bit of clarification to this first, so here's a question for Joseph... Why does the Pell sequence start with 1,2? If it is simply the Fibonacci sequence with a modified rule then why is the Pell sequence not {1,1,3,7,17,41...} instead of {1,2,5,12,29...}? Before anyone starts working on this new problem (if anyone wants to) could you clarify for us, Joseph, how to derive the first two terms of our base sequence? Are they the coefficients of the new rule? ie if the new defining rule is T(n)=a*T(n-1)+b*T(n-2) then are the first two terms {b,a}? If not what are they? ==== > if the new defining rule is T(n)=a*T(n-1)+b*T(n-2) then are > the first two terms {b,a}? If not what are they? IMHO, such a recursion is badly written. What is for n=0? Simply write T(n+2) = a* T(n+1) + b*T(n) to avoid any discussion. The initial values T(0) and T(1) do not play any role in my precise proof of r= a + b/r for the limes r of [T(n+1)/T(n)], as long as they are positive. Thus, the limes of the sequence [T(n+1)/T(n)] is the same for the same a,b, no matter what your choice is for T(0) and T(1), at least not as long these are not negative. - Wolfgang ==== > Your derivation of the formula r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 is not quite > but nearly correct. > Under the assumption the sequence [q_n] with q_n = F(n+1)/F(n) is > convergent with limit r, say - and JKH definitely allows this > assumption - one can argue as follows: F(n+2) = a*F(n+1) + b*F(n). > Division by F(n+1) yields q(n+1) = a + b/q(n). Now, as is well known, > the limes operation and arithmetical base operations commute. Hence, > lim [a + b/q(n)] = a + b/r. Clearly, also lim [q(n+1] = r. Therefore, > r = a + b/r. Now, this is equivalent to r = [sqrt(a^2 + 4b)]/2 as long > as r is positive (which it is :-) Incidentally, you said that my result of r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 was 'nearly' correct. I think that if you check more carefully you will find that it is your value which is incorrect. Your working above is almost exactly the same as the working I quoted in my initial posting and r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 is simply the positive root of the quadratic r = a + b/r. Try checking your CAS and you will simply get my result. ==== > Your derivation of the formula r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 is not quite > but nearly correct. > Incidentally, you said that my result of r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 was > 'nearly' correct. > For the normal Fibonacci sequence, F(n)=1*F(n-1)+1*F(n-2), we assume > that at the limit as n->infinity, we have r = F(n+1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1). This is mathematically confusing and even meaningless. Let's omit that you didn't mention n > 1 in your recursion formula. I concentrate on the essential. The equation r = F(n+1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) is simply false for each n > 1 because it follows from the context that you reserved r for the limes of the sequence [F(n+1)/F(n)], hence is a constant. And what means at the limit as n->infinity? This does not make sense as well, even linguistically. You continue > [F(n)+F(n-1)]/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) > => F(n)/F(n) + F(n-1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) This is correct, and you coud have started just with these equations, omitting the previous nonsense completely. Next you write > => 1 + 1/r = r This is a critical step. It should have been at least mentioned that the lim operation commutes with the arithmetical operations + and / which is not at all trivial. Here is also essentially used that lim [F(n+1)/F(n)] really exist. Next you write > I think that if you check more carefully you will find > that it is your value which is incorrect. Nothing in my first reply to your post was incorrect, apart from my precipitate proposal to make you the winner which I herewith withdraw. > Your working above is almost exactly the same as the working I quoted > in my initial posting What means almost? The style makes the difference. Better you'd not have replied too fast. You (and me as well) would have saved time :-) - Wolfgang ==== >Incidentally, you said that my result of r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 was >'nearly' correct. > > > In fact, what you said in your earlier posting was... > Hence, > lim [a + b/q(n)] = a + b/r. Clearly, also lim [q(n+1] = r. Therefore, > r = a + b/r. Now, this is equivalent to r = [sqrt(a^2 + 4b)]/2 as long > as r is positive (which it is :-) Your formula was r = [sqrt(a^2 + 4b)]/2, whereas my formula for the value of r was r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 . It seems to me that since our formulas are different it would have been difficult for me not to draw the conclusion that you were saying I was wrong in my formula. As for your criticism: > The equation r = F(n+1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) is simply false for > each n > 1 Of course it is! That's why I said as n tends to infinity. The values are of course never precisely equal but as n approaches infinity the fractions can be manipulated as units if they were equal (as you did too except you called them q(n+1)). In the interests of brevity, bearing in mind how difficult it is to write mathematical formulae readably in ascii, I had not written it strictly correctly. Oh dear, how sad. Most people reading it would have interpreted it, as you apparently did as: lim F(n+1) lim F(n) r = n->inf ------ = n->inf ------ F(n) F(n-1) > Let's omit that you didn't mention n > 1 in your recursion formula. Again, oh dear, how sad. I assumed a certain degree of intelligence on the part of the reader as I did in the limit working. Sue me. > This is a critical step. It should have been at least mentioned that > the lim operation commutes with the arithmetical operations + and / > which is not at all trivial. Here is also essentially used that > lim [F(n+1)/F(n)] really exist. Next you write I was not intending to present a textbook example of a limit problem. If I had included complete justification of every step I would have written so much that people would have missed the point in all the verbiage. **This is not a maths forum.** I had a conversation with a drunken university mathematics professor a few days ago who told me in tedious detail that by encouraging the use of graphical calculators in high school I was damaging the prospects of the students and corrupting the purity of the study of mathematics. He felt that maths students should not be allowed anything more than pencil and paper and log tables and spent some time telling me that every student should be able to prove everything from first principles. It sounds as if you would sympathise with him. I'm not normally this blunt in a posting. You've succeed in pissing me off. Congratulations. I won't be responding to any further postings on this topic. Frankly I don't care whether or not I won. That was never my intention in the first place. ==== > As for your criticism: > The equation r = F(n+1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) is simply false for > each n > 1 > Of course it is! That's why I said as n tends to infinity. With this formulation you would not pass any university examination in math. Learning linguistic discipline is a bacis task in math education, and the most difficult to learn. What could clearly be said should clearly be said. It's almost always shorter than any confusing text, in particular in the derivation of the formula under discussion. In my 1st reply I even accepted your confusing text and tried politely to correct it. If I'd known your arrogance I wouldn't have done that. university professor in math would have uttered such stupid things even if he is totally drunk. I always encourage my students in math and info to use graphic calculators. And many students are happy doing this. - Wolfgang ==== > >if the new defining rule is T(n)=a*T(n-1)+b*T(n-2) then are >the first two terms {b,a}? If not what are they? > IMHO, such a recursion is badly written. What is for n=0? Simply write > T(n+2) = a* T(n+1) + b*T(n) to avoid any discussion. How can it matter whether we define the rule for n=>0 or for n=>2? The rule is mathematically and practically the same. > The initial values T(0) and T(1) do not play any role in my precise > proof of r= a + b/r for the limes r of [T(n+1)/T(n)], as long as they > are positive. Granted, but irrelevant. They do for producing the successive fractional approximations as I outlined. Hence my question to Joseph. ==== > A little bit of pencil and paper algebra goes a long way (or is that > not allowed in this sort of challenge?). That should, IMHO, of course be allowed. It's math in action :-) Your derivation of the formula r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 is not quite but nearly correct. Hence, *you* should be the winner since it it easy to compute r for given a and b explicitely, both in approximative and in exact mode. Allow me to present a precise proof of your formula. Under the assumption the sequence [q_n] with q_n = F(n+1)/F(n) is convergent with limit r, say - and JKH definitely allows this assumption - one can argue as follows: F(n+2) = a*F(n+1) + b*F(n). Division by F(n+1) yields q(n+1) = a + b/q(n). Now, as is well known, the limes operation and arithmetical base operations commute. Hence, lim [a + b/q(n)] = a + b/r. Clearly, also lim [q(n+1] = r. Therefore, r = a + b/r. Now, this is equivalent to r = [sqrt(a^2 + 4b)]/2 as long as r is positive (which it is :-) Note that this has been proven for all reals a,b as long as a^2 +4b > 0, not only for natural numbers a,b. - Wolfgang ==== > A little bit of pencil and paper algebra goes a long way (or is that > not allowed in this sort of challenge?). That should, IMHO, of course be allowed. It's math in action :-) Your derivation of the formula r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 is not quite >but nearly correct. Hence, *you* should be the winner since it it easy >to compute r for given a and b explicitely, both in approximative and >in exact mode. Allow me to present a precise proof of your formula. We, Virgil and I, were of course using this same exact formula all along, before Colin's post. It's seems Virgil was solving the equation manually. I was trying it with PROOT in my first two solutions and then I switched to manually solving the equation in my last two. ==== > We, Virgil and I, were of course using this same exact formula all > along, before Colin's post. It's seems Virgil was solving the equation > manually. I was trying it with PROOT in my first two solutions and > then I switched to manually solving the equation in my last two. Actually, I was doing it as a vector space problem. Given recursion formula f(n+2) = a*f(n+1) + b*f(n), one easily gets the vector recursion formula [f(n+2) f(n+1)] = [[a b][1 0]]*[f(n+1) f(n)], and initial vector [1 0]. The eigenvalues of [[a b][1 0]], using EGVL, are a/2 +- sqrt((a/2)^2 + b), and it should be obvious that under iteration almost any vector will be rotated towards parallelism to the eigenvector having the largest (in absolute value) eigenvalue, namely, [ a/2 + sqrt((a/2)^2+b) 1] . Note that if e is either eigenvalue of M = [[a b][1 0]] then [[a b][1 0]]*[e 1] = e*[e 1] = [e^2 e]. The ratio of f(n+1) to f(n) then will converge to that eigenvalue. The only exceptions would be for initial vectors parallel to the other eigenvector, e.g., [ a/2-sqrt((a/2)^2+b) 1], which initial vector [1 0] is not. So my original calculations took '[[a b][1 0]]' and executed EGVL on it. ==== , > Is it a new Mini-challenge for RPL programmers? > Or is it mathematical recreation for number aficionados? It's BOTH! > ===== BACKGROUND ===== Write a User RPL program that Generalizes the above process for the > Generalized Sequence, namely, it takes X and Y as inputs, and returns the > ratio of G(N+1)/G(N) as N approaches infinity, where G(N) is defined by the > recursive formula: G(0) = 0 > G(1) = 1 > G(N) = X*G(N-2) + Y*G(N-1) Input: X and Y > Output: limit of G(N)/G(N-1) as N approaches infinity. Examples: Input: 1 1 <--- the Fibonacci sequence > Output: (1+sqrt(5))/2 Input: 1 2 <--- the Pell sequence > Output: 1+sqrt(2) Input: 2 1 <--- the sequence { 1 1 3 5 11 21 43 ... } > Output: 2 Input: 2 2 <--- the sequence { 1 2 6 16 44 120 ... } > Output: 1+sqrt(3) There will be two winners: the smallest HP48 User RPL program that returns > the correct answer in *decimal* form, and the smallest HP49 User RPL program > that returns the correct answer in *exact* form. Happy Programming! Assuming a 49 in exact mode, X and Y positive and exact expressions, not necessarily integers, and on the stack with X in level 2 and Y in level 1, I have a program of 32.5 bytes, with checksum # 12306d which produces the desired results. The same program will work on the HP48, producing the best approximations to the exact values, but a slightly shorter program also works, with only 30 bytes and checksum #22216d. The shorter program also works on the HP49 giving correct exact, but sometimes less simplified, answers. On the 49, the shorter program also has 30 bytes, but has checksum # ==== Generalized Sequence, namely, it takes X and Y as inputs, and returns the >ratio of G(N+1)/G(N) as N approaches infinity, where G(N) is defined by the >recursive formula: G(0) = 0 >G(1) = 1 >G(N) = X*G(N-2) + Y*G(N-1) Input: X and Y >Output: limit of G(N)/G(N-1) as N approaches infinity. Examples: There will be two winners: the smallest HP48 User RPL program that returns >the correct answer in *decimal* form, and the smallest HP49 User RPL program >that returns the correct answer in *exact* form. Happy Programming! > My first solution for the 48 : Bytes: 35.5 Checksum: # E8F6h Time: Executes instantaneously. (pretty much ;) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== My first solution for the 48 : Bytes: 35.5 >Checksum: # E8F6h >Time: Executes instantaneously. (pretty much ;) > Now it's down to 33 bytes. Checksum # 2C1Dh . ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== >My first solution for the 48 : Bytes: 35.5 >Checksum: # E8F6h >Time: Executes instantaneously. (pretty much ;) >Now it's down to 33 bytes. Checksum # 2C1Dh . > And now down to 32.5 bytes. Checksum # BF9Fh . ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== >My first solution for the 48 : >>Bytes: 35.5 >>Checksum: # E8F6h >>Time: Executes instantaneously. (pretty much ;) > >Now it's down to 33 bytes. Checksum # 2C1Dh . > >And now down to 32.5 bytes. Checksum # BF9Fh . > I've now got it down to 30 bytes after a small simplification. The checksum is # 56C8h which happens to be the same as Virgil's 30 byte solution! I guess we converged to the same program. Anyway, in order to prove that I actually came up with this one here is the code ;) : (scroll down a screenful or two to see it) << 2 / DUP SQ ROT + SQRT + > The simplification comes from realizing the fact that if you distribute the 2 in the denominator of the quadratic formula (including inside the square root) you end up with two terms : X/2 and X^2/4 . Since X^2/4 = (X/2)^2 and since the distribution canceled out the 4 in the 4*Y term you can re-use the X/2 value and save 2.5 bytes by not having to perform a multiplication *and* a division, only a division. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== > The simplification comes from realizing the fact that if you > distribute the 2 in the denominator of the quadratic formula > (including inside the square root) you end up with two terms : > X/2 and X^2/4 . Since X^2/4 = (X/2)^2 and since the > distribution canceled out the 4 in the 4*Y term you can re-use > the X/2 value and save 2.5 bytes by not having to perform a > multiplication *and* a division, only a division. Elegant! It beats my 35-byte solution! Can it be shrunk beyond 30 bytes? I seriously doubt it, in which case you win! Sub-challenge: Given a desired *output* to the above program, what are all the possible integer inputs? ==== of JB for computing r = b/2 + SQRT(SQ(b/2)+a) which is the positive root of x^2 -bx -a = 0 for positive reals a,b, and equally the limes of the sequence [f(n+1)/f(n)] if the sequence f obeys f(n+2)= a*f(n)+b*f(n+1), with an arbitrary positive start value f(0). > Elegant! It beats my 35-byte solution! Can it be shrunk beyond 30 bytes? I seriously doubt it, in which case you win! What is elegant here? It's the most stright-forward programming of the solution term in UsrRPL. Here is my solution, 28 bytes only: << -1 UNROT ->V3 PROOT 2 GET > which is, apart from swapping the 2 arguments, equivalent to the above. Argument swapping should not count. My program reads the real a first which may considered even more natural. You decide whether you admit UNROT which is definitely a 49 UsrRPL command, but not on the 48 :-) As you see, the essential in my approach is the triviality that a polynomial and its additive inverse have the same roots. - Wolfgang ==== of JB for computing r = b/2 + SQRT(SQ(b/2)+a) which is the positive root of x^2 -ax -b = 0 for positive reals a,b > Elegant! It beats my 35-byte solution! Can it be shrunk beyond 30 bytes? I seriously doubt it, in which case you win! What is elegant here? It's the most stright-forward programming of the term in UsrRPL. Here is my solution, 28 bytes only: << -1 UNROT ->V3 PROOT 2 GET > which is, apart from swapping the 2 arguments, equivalent to the above. Arugment swapping should not count. My program first reads a and then b in solving the equation x^2 -ax -b = 0 which may considered even more natural. Decide yourself whether you admit UNROT which is definitely a 49 UsrRPL command, but not on the 48 :-) As you see, the essential in my approach is the triviality that a polynomial and its negation have the same roots. - Wolfgang ==== Hahaha! I got the exact result for g[n+1]/g[n] with Mathematica! Should be pretty easy to take the limit ;-) In[1]:= <Infinity]; In[4]:= func[1,1] 1 + Sqrt[5] Out[4]= ----------- 2 In[5]:= func[1,2] Out[5]= 1 + Sqrt[2] In[6]:= func[2,1] Out[6]= 2 In[7]:= func[2,2] Out[7]= 1 + Sqrt[3] Out[8]= Mathematica 4.2 for Microsoft Windows (August 23, 2002) -- Bhuvanesh ==== ich besitze den HP49G, nur habe ich das Problem das das Display vom Rechner sehr dunkel ist. Gibt es M.9aglichkeiten das zu .8andern oder ist dies ein Hardwarefehler? Batterien habe ich schon gewechselt, leider kein Erfolg. dieter ==== Press the keys [ON] and [-] or [ON] and [+] together to adjust contrast. Caspar dieter schreef in bericht > ich besitze den HP49G, nur habe ich das Problem das das Display vom Rechner > sehr dunkel ist. Gibt es M.9aglichkeiten das zu .8andern oder ist dies ein > Hardwarefehler? Batterien habe ich schon gewechselt, leider kein Erfolg. > dieter > ==== > Press the keys [ON] and [-] or [ON] and [+] together to adjust contrast. Caspar > thank you for your tip :) dieter ==== when I turn ON the HP49G I can see for a short time vertically white lines in the display. Is that normal? By my HP48 there is not so an effect. Whats by your? Hans Joachim (Ger) ==== > when I turn ON the HP49G I can see for a short time > vertically white lines in the display. > Is that normal? Excerpt from the Compleat User RPL Encyclopedia (to appear online Real Soon Now): Green Lightning aka Green Flash The momentary display flash that's seen as the calculator powers up. It is harmless and expected. The flash is not green; the name is a throwback to old IBM monitors that made a similar flash when a new character set was being downloaded, and came to be affectionately known as green lightning among hackers. The IBM original is perhaps closer to the HP display earthquake that occurs when a library is detached. None of these have anything whatsoever to do with the rare green flash seen momentarily above the Sun just as it sets. ==== Dear all, FYI, if there are still HP-41C fans here, I upadate my Emu41 emulator (for DOS ...) with full HP-IL support including 5 internal (virtual) devices: one display, two mass storage units (DOS image file, floppy), a printer interface (parallel port) and a DOS interface. All this is available as freeware, like previous versions. Please look at my new home page at: http://membres.lycos.fr/jeffcalc As an option, I propose an extended version for a small fee with external HP-IL interface support by using the HPIL/PC board (HP82973A or compatible). I know that many of you have an old 286/386/486 sleeping around, now you can turn it into a powerfull HP-IL controller (41 compatible) or into a multidevice HP-IL unit! Jean-Francois Garnier ==== hi NK! thanks for your response and glad to hear you have similar views. > HP49G-experiments again? ;-) psss...sometimes i write from a place i shouldn't (if you know what i mean). i had to go to set up a podium (speakers, mike,etc). > In fully agreement, with some commends. I would make a small (vague) > exception regarding mathematics, and that is because mathematics/logic > seems to be the basis of all our thinking. (Not sure, but the newest > brain experiments *seem* to certify that - even feelings seem to be > very logical and material in nature.) So, if the brain, which was made > by a nature that we now want to understand, was made in this way that > its kernel runs mathematically, then one could tend to say that it > will best fit nature/reality using exactly this way of thinking. It > does all what it does inside the laws which created it. i agree with your last points (of the whole message) though i see the first one in a different way. it was my understanding that the human brain is not logical. there are several modes in human reason, and analogic reasoning is used 99% of the time. we don't stop and deduce the correct answer, but we leap to a similar situation using our memory and from here we obtain the outcome to a new situation. this does not mean that we don't think logically but that we do it at very specific times (and after some training). also, to think logically with common language has its caveats. language does not work like math because language is ambiguous (as opposed to math which has its own specific rules). sometimes we confuse the dictionary description (a language/communication tool) with the thing. have you ever tried to buy something used in a newspaper add. sometimes it looks real good in paper till you see it. and sometimes even more, the description (in words) of the add may set you to buy it (we follow their meaning). and only after you have it in your house a couple of days, you realize that that is not that good. some things can only be described with other words. we can only infer their meaning by using more words (or other symbolic machinery). we try to dig up some things by mental explorations and in the process we insert our perceptions. all i am trying to say here is that to build faith in logic has its caveats sometimes. imagine how many words we read everyday. we bathe in a Niagara of words from the time we get up till we close our eyes. how many of those words are like the newspaper add?. this is the nature of semantic constructions. > On the other hand, this is not necessary. It could also be that we, > humans, recognize too many patterns, where perhaps no patterns exist. > We tend very often to generalize specific observations and make them > to rules/laws, which we expect to govern the world, without any > further proof. For example: Take the first law of thermodynamics. It > was never proven but only certified over and over again in many many > (but not infinite many) experiments. We see that a special behavior > repeats itself again and again, and then we say that this again and > again is the same like always. This is not deduction. This is > induction, and also not perfect induction. It has been fruitable (and > gave as machines, cars and the like), but it is not 100% sure that > this has to be a law of nature, though very very very unlikely that it > could be the other way around. It is very very very unlikely that we > made all experiments that show us that this is a law, and none of the > experiments that show the opposite, but it is not impossible. i sure agree with the 'thermodynamics law.' i am not that lost yet ;) i agree that there are things that seem work in a certain way no matter what (viva science!). but yet we see this from a perspective (it comes down to us). maybe the last ultimate word is not the experiment, but the interpretation we give to the experiment. maybe we'll all become scientific processes one day ;) > The other way, deduction, is also not necessarily absolute in what it > says, because it needs axioms, things to start with, and these things > are taken for the truth with no further justification. For example, > nobody up to today can *prove* that A=A, though we seem to be > incapable of even imagining the opposite. Any statement that results > through deduction out of unproven axioms, is proven within and only > within this set of axioms, even if those axioms seem to be of > universal validity. agree > What remains? Almost nothing? Not at all! The fact that we have > managed to do so much (and meanwhile are able to destroy our planet) > is a strong indicator that our vision of reality has to be at least > very close to real reality. I would say damned close! well, we could also ask what is the place of science. i think that science has its place in favoring us. i agree that one can get a scientific reality but one should set himself above science so as to use science for helping his life and others and not as a means to an end. it is a matter of orientation. i think that the live that one lives is where the cheese is at, the *real* reality ;) > Being happy that I can understand a tiny part of what is, > I send my greetings to all, who I never proved they exist. > i don't even understand a tiny part ;) hope one day an alien will come and explain what the heck is going on. in the meantime i'll keep pedaling whenever you teach something, don't forget to teach how to doubt that what you have just taught Ortega y Gasset ==== > hi NK! thanks for your response and glad to hear you have similar views. HP49G-experiments again? ;-) psss...sometimes i write from a place i shouldn't (if you know what i > mean). i had to go to set up a podium (speakers, mike,etc). OK, me silent :-| > In fully agreement, with some commends. I would make a small (vague) > exception regarding mathematics, and that is because mathematics/logic > seems to be the basis of all our thinking. (Not sure, but the newest > brain experiments *seem* to certify that - even feelings seem to be > very logical and material in nature.) So, if the brain, which was made > by a nature that we now want to understand, was made in this way that > its kernel runs mathematically, then one could tend to say that it > will best fit nature/reality using exactly this way of thinking. It > does all what it does inside the laws which created it. i agree with your last points (of the whole message) though i see the > first one in a different way. it was my understanding that the human > brain is not logical. there are several modes in human reason, and > analogic reasoning is used 99% of the time. we don't stop and deduce > the correct answer, but we leap to a similar situation using our > memory and from here we obtain the outcome to a new situation. Yes, we are using naive analogies often. Something like a huge lookup table, full of when this, then that rules. But this is only a first step. After this more (should) come. > this > does not mean that we don't think logically but that we do it at very > specific times (and after some training). also, to think logically > with common language has its caveats. language does not work like math > because language is ambiguous (as opposed to math which has its own > specific rules). I meant the math logic. > sometimes we confuse the dictionary description (a > language/communication tool) with the thing. have you ever tried to > buy something used in a newspaper add. sometimes it looks real good in > paper till you see it. I guess this is what happens most of the time. ;-) > and sometimes even more, the description (in > words) of the add may set you to buy it (we follow their meaning). and > only after you have it in your house a couple of days, you realize > that that is not that good. some things can only be described with > other words. we can only infer their meaning by using more words (or > other symbolic machinery). In this specific case, Rcobo, I think it is the creatives who simply say/write things that aren't true. Intented fooling of the customers, I would name it. > we try to dig up some things by mental > explorations and in the process we insert our perceptions. Yes, sir! That is what we do. We must accept this if we want to be sincere to ourselves. > all i am > trying to say here is that to build faith in logic has its caveats > sometimes. imagine how many words we read everyday. we bathe in a > Niagara of words from the time we get up till we close our eyes. how > many of those words are like the newspaper add?. this is the nature of > semantic constructions. Undoubtfully you are right. But there is the refuge of the strictly mathematically defined logic and all what it implies. > On the other hand, this is not necessary. It could also be that we, > humans, recognize too many patterns, where perhaps no patterns exist. > We tend very often to generalize specific observations and make them > to rules/laws, which we expect to govern the world, without any > further proof. For example: Take the first law of thermodynamics. It > was never proven but only certified over and over again in many many > (but not infinite many) experiments. We see that a special behavior > repeats itself again and again, and then we say that this again and > again is the same like always. This is not deduction. This is > induction, and also not perfect induction. It has been fruitable (and > gave as machines, cars and the like), but it is not 100% sure that > this has to be a law of nature, though very very very unlikely that it > could be the other way around. It is very very very unlikely that we > made all experiments that show us that this is a law, and none of the > experiments that show the opposite, but it is not impossible. i sure agree with the 'thermodynamics law.' i am not that lost yet ;) I *was* that lost, or say asleep, until a good prof. woke me up. The awakening was similar to an earthquake for me, but after all it was good. > i agree that there are things that seem work in a certain way no > matter what (viva science!). but yet we see this from a perspective > (it comes down to us). maybe the last ultimate word is not the > experiment, but the interpretation we give to the experiment. maybe > we'll all become scientific processes one day ;) What you say is more or less equivalent to there are more than one models which describe and predict (almost) the same. We choose according to our views. And I agree. My focus was rather on the fact that there are also models based solely on (repeated) observation. Another example would be special relativity here. After so many experiments failed, that tried to prove the existence of the ether, there came a man (yes, *that* man) and simply supposed that not only many but *all* experiments will fail. And assumed that ether doesn't exist. And you know how it went on... The theory was a triumph. But it started out of induction (from many to all). > The other way, deduction, is also not necessarily absolute in what it > says, because it needs axioms, things to start with, and these things > are taken for the truth with no further justification. For example, > nobody up to today can *prove* that A=A, though we seem to be > incapable of even imagining the opposite. Any statement that results > through deduction out of unproven axioms, is proven within and only > within this set of axioms, even if those axioms seem to be of > universal validity. agree What remains? Almost nothing? Not at all! The fact that we have > managed to do so much (and meanwhile are able to destroy our planet) > is a strong indicator that our vision of reality has to be at least > very close to real reality. I would say damned close! well, we could also ask what is the place of science. i think that > science has its place in favoring us. i agree that one can get a > scientific reality but one should set himself above science so as to > use science for helping his life and others and not as a means to an > end. it is a matter of orientation. i think that the live that one > lives is where the cheese is at, the *real* reality ;) This crossovers to philosophy (and it's good that it does). But don't worry, *there can be no end*. There will never be the endth theory of eveything, no matter what Hawking says (since years ;-)). > Being happy that I can understand a tiny part of what is, > I send my greetings to all, who I never proved they exist. > i don't even understand a tiny part ;) Oh yes, you do. You know where the cheese is ;-) > hope one day an alien will > come and explain what the heck is going on. in the meantime i'll keep > pedaling Allow me to take part in that pedaling, though my skills fade away as the kgs rise. ;-) whenever you teach something, don't forget to teach how to doubt that > what you have just taught > Ortega y Gasset Yes, like a good old game of poker. ==== Can I connect a Macintoh Computer G4 with the HP 49G for transfer data between both computer. I use Mac OS X and also Mac OS 9.xx Hans Joachim (.de) ==== In message <21417712.0301250931.2ae7addb@posting.google.com>, jochen >Can I connect a Macintoh Computer G4 with the HP 49G for transfer data >between both computer. I use Mac OS X and also Mac OS 9.xx You'll need a USB to serial converter and a copy of kermit. Google will help you find both. -- k ==== For MAC, PCs., PDA, HP-48 and HP-49G use: BELKIN USB-RS232 female connection (5U109). Please see ... www.belkin.com Kermit protocol COM 3 or COM4 9600 bps and up. The price is ~ U$S 30 Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK **************************************************************************** *** > In message <21417712.0301250931.2ae7addb@posting.google.com>, jochen >Can I connect a Macintoh Computer G4 with the HP 49G for transfer data >between both computer. I use Mac OS X and also Mac OS 9.xx You'll need a USB to serial converter and a copy of kermit. Google will > help you find both. > ==== jochen schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Can I connect a Macintoh Computer G4 with the HP 49G for transfer data > between both computer. I use Mac OS X and also Mac OS 9.xx > KERMIT;-) Raymond ==== > accessible]. I'm in France. Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either > www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? Toronto reporting in: the links work fine here. ==== Joseph K. Horn meinte >Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either >www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? If not, it's merely a French >Connection problem. While I had no problems from Brussels/Belgium, as stated in my previous post, I'm can't connect from here in Germany to any of the holyjoe-addressees. www.godaddy.com works o.k. though. Gru¤ G.9fnter ==== Guenter Schink :: > Joseph K. Horn meinte >Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either >www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? If not, it's merely a French >Connection problem. > While I had no problems from Brussels/Belgium, as stated in my > previous post, I'm can't connect from here in Germany to any of the > holyjoe-addressees. www.godaddy.com works o.k. though. > www.godaddy.com says: 8<------------------------ Provider error '80004005' Unspecified error /gdshop/i_shop.asp, line 183 8<------------------------- www.holyjoe.com can not be solved to IP address... Best wishes, Robert Tiismus ==== > accessible]. I'm in France. Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either > www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? If not, it's merely a French > Connection problem. I am in Canada, the links work fine and load fast. ==== Does anyone know what kind of book is this? Is it good? Silvio ==== Mathematics for Elementary School Teachers: Problem-Solving Investigations: Problem-Solving Investigations (The Prindle,Weber and Schmidt Series in Mathe) ævonæRichard J. Sgroi, Laura Shannon Sgroi Thomson Learning (1. M.8arz 1993) Gebundene Ausgabe F.9fhren wir nicht oder nicht mehr - jetzt gebraucht vorbestellen. 2. Advanced Studies in Pure Mathematics Investigations in Number Theory: 013 ævonæTomio Kubota Academic Pr (1. Mai 1988) Gebundene Ausgabe F.9fhren wir nicht oder nicht mehr - jetzt gebraucht vorbestellen. In Silvio L. de > Investigations in Mathematics ==== I just downloaded the programs JACOBI and GA.SE from the Numeric-Math-Section. Unfortunately, the manual is very poor :). LA ENTRADA DE ELLOS ES UNA MATRIZ DE LOS COEFICIENTES CON SUS RESULTADOS, EL NUMERO DE ECUACIONES Y UN VECTOR INICIAL (EN AMBOS). UN VECTOR INICIAL I figured out A,B,C as arguments (from << -> A B C > ) Anybody knows how to enter these arguments with rpn? (maybe with example) Thx for your help! Manfred ==== ==== > I needed a cheap calc for the office, didn't need anything fancy, > just basic > scientific. I have a HP48+, HP32SII and HP49, and > I'm used to the quality of > the HP48 and HP32. Can't really say > HP49 and 'quality' in the same sentence. > > Anyway, the I bought a HP6S, as it was very cheap, and I was curious. > It will You should have choosen a HP20S. I already have a HP48GX, a HP48G+, a HP32SII, and purchased the 20S just because it is a nice little HP calc. The 6S is not made by HP. :-) -- ==== anybody knows where i can find an instruction manual in italian for the hp 49g? thanks everybody in advice! ==== > first of all i want to say that i am immensely impressed with your > programs for the hp4x. they really are great. > i am trying to learn system rpl (for 49), but to date, only one of my > programs has ever worked completely how it is supposed to, but even > that wasnt a full version. ... a version of the drug game thats all > over the place. the problem is that when it displays the drug prices, > they show up as 0's. i have tried many different things, but nothing > seems to work. if you could look at the program (attached), and try to > figure it out, i would greatly appreciate it. - thanks Mike Roberts to give some general advices to those interested in SysRPL and direct senders with related problems from now on to this NG. Learning SysRPL fast and efficiently is IMHO possible only by hacking other people's SysRPL programs. Examples in Programming in SysRP are too simple and you'll never come to an end if reading it from A to Z. Clearly, you should have it always at hand to look at the stack diagrams etc. Read also Eduardo's Programming the HP49 from hpcalc.org (it got Erics GetIt star). Besides extable you should have at least the libs Emacs, Nosy and OT49 on your calculator. Try to follow the stack look of good programs by first debugging them on the 49 with flag -85 set. Every time you meet a runstream command press CON, to overjump it until the next xHALT which must have been put beforehand at suitable places into the program - make a key assignment for quickly writing xHALT in edited SysRPL programs. The builtin debugger was designed for UsrRPL but works also for SysRPL as long as no runstream commands are met or the return stack is not specially handled. Commands looking forward at the runstrem and not only backward at the data stack are runstream commands, e.g. the various quoting commands, the case-commands etc. In addition, decompile commands like casedrop, caseDROP etc with Emacs's Nosy tools to convince yourself that they really do the expected. With external tools available for the HP49 it is much easier to learn SysRPL today than it was in the times of the famous hackers (like D. M.9fller, M. Heiskanen and others). Unfortunately, I've no time to detach your or other SysRPL programs from this NG in case of a problem. I'll always help as much as I can. But you will meet here other people which are excellent experts in SysRPL. ==== Some days ago I made a link list for somebody about SysRPL/Assembly programming. The main topic was programming the HP48, but it will be useful for the HP49 was well. In difference to Wolfgang I like developing on the PC, you will see this on the published links. Here it is, Christoph This is a link collection of selected tools that IMHO are useful to learn and making System RPL and Saturn Assembly programs for the HP48 and HP49. This list is far far away from to be complete, there are many other programs and document that are worth to be mentioned here. The best resource for these (and other) sort of material is www.hpcalc.org. - Original RPL Compiler/Assembler package with documentation Many parts of this package are replaced by newer versions, it's recommended to use the latest versions http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/pc/programming/tools.zip - RPL Compiler/Assembler http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/pc/programming/hptool-3.0.8-win32.zip - Official HP48 Entry point list http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/programming/entries/48entry.zip - Official HP49 Entry point list http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/programming/entries/supentry.zip - IDE with Editor/Compiler/Debugger/Emulator for HP48/49 http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/pc/programming/debug4x.zip - Emu48 Emulator http://privat.swol.de/ChristophGiesselink/ - Entry point list data base http://zon.astro.uva.nl/~dominik/hpcalc/entries/ - System RPL programming tutorial http://zon.astro.uva.nl/~dominik/hpcalc/progsysrpl_pdf.zip http://zon.astro.uva.nl/~dominik/hpcalc/progsysrpl_examples.zip - Assembler programming tutorial http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/programming/asm-pdf.zip Wolfgang Rautenberg schrieb im Newsbeitrag first of all i want to say that i am immensely impressed with your > programs for the hp4x. they really are great. > i am trying to learn system rpl (for 49), but to date, only one of my > programs has ever worked completely how it is supposed to, but even > that wasnt a full version. ... a version of the drug game thats all > over the place. the problem is that when it displays the drug prices, > they show up as 0's. i have tried many different things, but nothing > seems to work. if you could look at the program (attached), and try to > figure it out, i would greatly appreciate it. - thanks Mike Roberts to give some general advices to those interested in SysRPL and direct > senders with related problems from now on to this NG. Learning SysRPL fast and efficiently is IMHO possible only by hacking > other people's SysRPL programs. Examples in Programming in SysRP are > too simple and you'll never come to an end if reading it from A to Z. > Clearly, you should have it always at hand to look at the stack diagrams > etc. Read also Eduardo's Programming the HP49 from hpcalc.org (it got > Erics GetIt star). Besides extable you should have at least the libs > Emacs, Nosy and OT49 on your calculator. Try to follow the stack look of > good programs by first debugging them on the 49 with flag -85 set. Every > time you meet a runstream command press CON, to overjump it until the > next xHALT which must have been put beforehand at suitable places into > the program - make a key assignment for quickly writing xHALT in edited > SysRPL programs. The builtin debugger was designed for UsrRPL but works > also for SysRPL as long as no runstream commands are met or the return > stack is not specially handled. Commands looking forward at the runstrem > and not only backward at the data stack are runstream commands, e.g. the > various quoting commands, the case-commands etc. In addition, decompile > commands like casedrop, caseDROP etc with Emacs's Nosy tools to convince > yourself that they really do the expected. With external tools available > for the HP49 it is much easier to learn SysRPL today than it was in the > times of the famous hackers (like D. M.9fller, M. Heiskanen and > others). Unfortunately, I've no time to detach your or other SysRPL programs from > this NG in case of a problem. I'll always help as much as I can. But you > will meet here other people which are excellent experts in SysRPL. > ==== > Unfortunately, I've no time to detach your or other SysRPL programs from > this NG in case of a problem. I'll always help as much as I can. But you > will meet here other people which are excellent experts in SysRPL. I agree, completely! And by posting in this NG, others will also benefit from the answers/discussion. Bothering individuals IMHO would be waste of time and considering the fact that posts in this NG is read by many people, one could surely also expect a better answer to a problem here, since different approaches to a problem, here can be taken.. Martin J! ==== > I agree, completely! And by posting in this NG, others will also > benefit from the answers/discussion. Bothering individuals IMHO would > be waste of time and considering the fact that posts in this NG is > read by many people, one could surely also expect a better answer to > a problem here, since different approaches to a problem, here can be > taken.. Here a posting I got today from Ich besch.8aftige mich gerade mit meinem 49 G und habe noch nicht > verstanden wie verstanden wie das mit den Library funktioniert. > Ich wollte erst mal ein Grundverst.8andniss wie sie anlege und dann > die Befehle gebe, auf eine Antwort w.9frde ich mich freuen. Vielleicht > bekomme und dann dort bearbeiten kann um die Variablen abzulesen. > Sch.9anen Gruss aus Kassel - Rolf Eckhardt I don't understand the question. What is xls? Maybe somebody else could reply :-) - Wolfgang ==== I don't have a cable to connect my 48GX to a computer; how do I migrate the files I want from hpcalc.org into my 48gx? Is there some way I can type them in? Craig ==== Craig Reed escribi.97 en el mensaje I don't have a cable to connect my 48GX to a computer; how do I > migrate the files I want from hpcalc.org into my 48gx? Is there some > way I can type them in? > Craig Yes if you get the source from the zip archives when download. Other way is install the programs in an emulator and get the programs yourself. You will need many many time for typing some big prgs... I strongly recommend the cable: it is a very good investment for getting a more powerful calculator. ==== For transfer data into HP, is neccesary a serial cable RS232-HP. The cable is ... F1897-66000 from Hewlett Packard and the Connectivity Pac (one CD and the cable) is ... HP-F1897A. Your cost is ~ U$S 30. I'm didn't recommended make one, but if you thing what have, please consult the Eric Rechlin Web site (www.hpcacl.org or http://ca-on.hpcalc.org) and type in the window search ... enrico carta. Enrico write over the pinouts. Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK **************************************************************************** **** > Craig Reed escribi.97 en el mensaje I don't have a cable to connect my 48GX to a computer; how do I > migrate the files I want from hpcalc.org into my 48gx? Is there some > way I can type them in? > Craig > Yes if you get the source from the zip archives when download. > Other way is install the programs in an emulator and get the programs > yourself. > You will need many many time for typing some big prgs... > I strongly recommend the cable: it is a very good investment for getting a > more powerful calculator. > ==== Craig Reed escribi.97 en el mensaje I don't have a cable to connect my 48GX to a computer; how do I > migrate the files I want from hpcalc.org into my 48gx? Is there some > way I can type them in? > Craig Yes if you get the source from the zip archives when download. Other way is install the programs in an emulator and get the programs yourself. You will need many many time for typing some big prgs... I strongly recommend the cable: it is a very good investment for getting a more powerful calculator. ==== > P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the > calculator? I calculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35 minutes = 2.8556hours! Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because XPON doesn't work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)? ==== I calculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35 > minutes > = 2.8556hours! > Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because > XPON doesn't > work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)? Ok something must be wrong with my calc because mine took 10 times as > long... Ah I know why, I didn't use the calculator, I used the emulator, and then I > closed > it for a while and continue the calculation later, but the emulator thought > that it > was calculating throughout the whole time it wasn't even running. It gets > its clock > from the system clock of the pc, which does advance independant of the > emulator. I was wondering how mine could have taken 30 something hours when the real > 49g > did within 24 hours. Even 24 hours are too much compared to the 3 hours that ivan reported. Is the HP40 so much faster? ==== > P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the > calculator? I calculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35 minutes > = 2.8556hours! > Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because > XPON doesn't > work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)? Oh, and about number of digits, ->STR SIZE could work. Nick ==== > P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the > calculator? I calculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35 minutes > = 2.8556hours! > Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because > XPON doesn't > work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)? Ivan, is that a turbo charged HP40? ==== > P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the > calculator? I calculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35 minutes >= 2.8556hours! > Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because > XPON doesn't > work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)? > Look into logarithms. ==== And does this take display time into acount? -Samuel > P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the > calculator? Actually I don't know, I let it run after dinner until I came back > from work next day, which was just before dinner. Poor fella HP49G, had to crunch on numbers while the rest of the > family was having dinner. Hope that you gave it its reward next > morning. (A juicy set of new batteries, yummy! ;-)) It did within 24 hours. How do I time how long it takes to do > a calculation? You can use the command TEVAL. In this case you could for example > enter the number 9999, then enter the program << ! >, and then press > [TEVAL]. The program would be evaluated, and the result of 9999! would > be returned on stack level 2. The time in seconds to accomplish the > task would be returned on stack level 1. Sleepy > ==== Yes, it does, but as the calculation time is so long, the time to display the beast should be of minor importance. Or am I wrong here? > And does this take display time into acount? -Samuel > P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the > calculator? > Actually I don't know, I let it run after dinner until I came back > from work next day, which was just before dinner. Poor fella HP49G, had to crunch on numbers while the rest of the > family was having dinner. Hope that you gave it its reward next > morning. (A juicy set of new batteries, yummy! ;-)) > It did within 24 hours. How do I time how long it takes to do > a calculation? You can use the command TEVAL. In this case you could for example > enter the number 9999, then enter the program << ! >, and then press > [TEVAL]. The program would be evaluated, and the result of 9999! would > be returned on stack level 2. The time in seconds to accomplish the > task would be returned on stack level 1. Sleepy > ==== > Yes, it does, but as the calculation time is so long, the time to > display the beast should be of minor importance. Or am I wrong here? If you have a look at what TEVAL decompiles to, no it doesn't. The display code is buried somewhere in the System Outer Loop (SOL), but TEVAL has to finish before control returns to the SOL. However it indeed seems to be of minor importance. I put a ZINT of about 35000 1's on the stack (agreed, that's only *close* to the test case, but far easier to construct...) and then ran :: ' :: ClrDAsOK ?DispStack ; xTEVAL ; and got 0.4309 seconds. Greetings Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, confuse them. -- Harry S. Truman ==== > Yes, it does, but as the calculation time is so long, the time to > display the beast should be of minor importance. Or am I wrong here? I doubt you're wrong :) I was curious because on my ti89 something like 299! (This is the maximum you can do with a factorial) will take about two seconds to calculate but another 12 seconds to display. I have written a routine in 68k assembly that can convert the result of 299! to text in about a third of a second. Anyways I'm impressed the 49g can do 9999! -Samuel www.calvin.edu/~sstear70/ ==== > P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the > calculator? I timed it, it didn't take that long: 112623.1127 seconds Let's see if anyone can beat that ;) Note that is equal to 1877.05 minutes, or 31.28 hours. I wish I had a printer to pring the result. Is there anyway to 'word wrap' the line in the text viewer? ==== > > P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the > calculator? I timed it, it didn't take that long: 112623.1127 seconds Let's see if anyone can beat that ;) > Note that is equal to 1877.05 minutes, or 31.28 hours. Al, I think in such cases it would be better to give the number of battery sets used. ;-) > I wish I had a printer to pring the result. Is there anyway to > 'word wrap' the line in the text viewer? Only thing I can think of: << ->STR -> str wordwrapstr << WHILE str SIZE 30 > @Number of chars per line = 30. Change as you wish. REPEAT 'wordwrapstr' str 1 30 SUB STO+ 'wordwrapstr' STO+ @Add new line char num 10 str 31 OVER SIZE SUB 'str' STO END wordwrapstr str + ==== Paul Floyd schreef: > The last digit is zero. In fact, I'd estimate that around the last 1999 > digits are zeros (since each element in the factorial ending in a 0 adds > one zero, and each pair ending in 2 and 5 adds another zero, that makes > 2 zeros per 10 elements). You have the right idea but you need to count *all* factors of 5 (EG 25 contributes 2 fives ), since there are always more factors of 2 than 5 you can count fives so 5 gives 1999 zeros 25 gives an additional 399 125 gives 79 more 625 gives 15 3125 gives another 3 so the exact number of zeros at the end of 9999! is 2495 Peter ==== > You can use the command TEVAL. In this case you could for example > enter the number 9999, then enter the program << ! >, and then press > [TEVAL]. The program would be evaluated, and the result of 9999! would > be returned on stack level 2. The time in seconds to accomplish the > task would be returned on stack level 1. Ok thanks, I'll check how long it will take this time. -- Al ==== Anybody of u ever used this function to orthonormalize some vectors? There is a help on this command, but i have troubles with it. it says GRAMSCHMIDT [1,x] and more what does that mean? Lets say i want to get theorthonormal basis of these three vectors: a1=[[1][-1][2]] a2=[[2][1][1]] a3=[[4][-1][5]] I hope someome can help me out... many thanks in advance Manfred ==== We are 2 student that are trying to port linux (Timesys GPL) to an Embedded SH3 system. Everything works fine until we need to boot from the filesystem. We tried a few Ramdisk and Initrd Howto's but nothing seems to work. Is there anybody outthere that could provide us an initrd or ramdisk from approximataly 4Mb or less? this is what we tried, so far: We tried busybox. put the right libs in Ramdisk. > negative We tried busybox. build it static . > aren't able to compile. The initrd is found. Take a look at the terminal logfile: De head.s file wordt geladen! . On node 0 totalpages: 4096 zone(0): 4096 pages. zone(1): 0 pages. zone(2): 0 pages. CPU clock: 88.47MHz Bus clock: 44.23MHz Module clock: 22.11MHz Interval = 13824 Memory: 8956k/16384k available (1668k kernel code, 7428k reserved, 106k data, 48k init) Calibrating delay loop... 44.13 BogoMIPS Dentry-cache hash table entries: 2048 (order: 2, 16384 bytes) Inode-cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 1, 8192 bytes) Mount-cache hash table entries: 512 (order: 0, 4096 bytes) Buffer-cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes) Page-cache hash table entries: 4096 (order: 2, 16384 bytes) CPU: SH7709A/SH7729 POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039 Initializing RT netlink socket Starting kswapd v1.8 devfs: v0.107 (20010709) Richard Gooch (rgooch@atnf.csiro.au) devfs: boot_options: 0x2 pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured Serial driver version 5.05c (2001-07-08) with no serial options enabled ttyS01 at 0x02f8 (irq = 3) is a 16450 SuperH SCI(F) driver initialized ttySC0 at 0xfffffe80 is a SCI ttySC1 at 0xa4000150 is a SCIF ttySC2 at 0xa4000140 is a SCIF Real Time Clock Driver v1.10d block: queued sectors max/low 5754kB/1918kB, 64 slots per queue RAMDISK driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 4096K size 1024 blocksize loop: loaded (max 8 devices) IP Protocols: ICMP, UDP, TCP IP: routing cache hash table of 16 buckets, 2Kbytes TCP: Hash tables configured (established 32 bind 52) RAMDISK: Compressed image found at block 0 Freeing initrd memory: 4096k freed VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem). Mounted devfs on /dev Voert linuxrc uit kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major-2, errno = 2 VFS: Cannot open root device or 02:00 Please append a correct root= boot option Bart & Dennis ==== > Yes, I'll add some remark to Fontman.txt but the parameter changer > will continue to recalculate modulo 256 (not 245). > That's a good solution. That way, intelligent users will know why to > avoid font ID's above 244, but will still be able to use a font ID > above 244 ... Well, knowing that an ID > 244 does cause problems in using the stylers is perhaps lesser a question of intelligence but of information :-) Couldn't that have been avoided? A font contains the nibble pair for the length of name string twice, before and after the name, and hence a redundance of 2 nibbles. Fontman v.6 sets new Font Parameter (FP) in a dialog box, for newbees. FP parameter changer. This clearly provides a faster user dialog. JKH's FP changer has 332 bytes, my equivalent FP changer has 136 bytes only and is much faster. What makes it particularly small and fast is the nice new 49-command SREPL. - Wolfgang ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/fonttools/ ==== > Did you really search all the commands in all menus > yourself alone? Yes. Heavens! > If so, how did you do that? Manually, going through the Menu Number List one menu at a time. You must be a very patient person, Joe. > Speaking > of which, please be aware that the HP49G Menu Number List has also been > updated: http://holyjoe.net/cure/menus.txt Oh, thanks, I noticed that and downloaded the document. > Unfortunately, there are many menus in the HP49G which are not numbered. I think that those menus can all be accessed by typing MAIN. The MAIN menu > and its submenus are in the MAIN Menu List at > http://holyjoe.net/cure/main.txt Yes, that's kind of strange to me. I thought that any menu must have its number. I (almost) never use these unnumbered menus, but nonetheless it is strange. It seems that I'm wrong. ==== > As I'm not an IP expert, is there a way how to surf without using DNS, > but > not offline. For example I want to connect to my comp just by using IP > address. This is done : with version 0.3-2701, 10.11.12.13 RESOLV returns #A0B0C0Dh as expected, so that surfing with IPs should be possible. -- Samuel Thibault csp.tar.gz: ascii text -+- #ens-mim - vive les browsers qui prennent des initiatives .88 la con -+- ==== We have been without hp49 calculators in Spain since November. I would like to know if same situation happens in the rest of Europe, to know how the new European main distributor works. I have asked today, and they've told me to wait until second week of February. Could you imagine worst image for HP? People has begun their university exams in January, and most of them couldn't buy a hp49. Of course, they don't need a hp49 for the exam or could buy a hp48 instead, but... you know, market rules, and many people is very angry with HP because they have been telling that calculators would arrive next week. This is about HP, not the local or national providers, since both get their calcs from the European distributor. So, hp49 has dissapeared from Spanish market for almost 4 months. In November we couldn't find any hp49 in any market in Spain. As I said before, I would like to know which is the situation in rest Europe. J.Manrique x