B24 I just downloaded the 39/40 ROM in my 49G, and I am wondering which program I should use to download aplets in my transformed machine: the 49G's or the 39G's? What's the name of the program to be used? By the way, I am happily surprised by that 39G. Still have my 48 though ... When I was beta testing the 39G using a ROM downloaded into a 49G it behaved in every way like a 39G, including expecting you to use the 39G's comms software called HPGComm. Go to my Utilities page and you can download the latest version if you haven't already got it. Or go to the author's site (James Bergamin). You can also find instructions on how to use it at my site if you haven't figured it out (it's not hard). PS You may find that it's easier to use the emulator to explore the 39G since that way you get the proper keyboard too. I agree that the 39G is a great calc. -- Colin Croft ====================================== Applications in Mathematics ccroft@iinet.net.au http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/ ====================================== program the ... behaved in software version Bergamin). since I am having some problems doing indefinate integrals on my 48GX for my calc III and diff equations classes. I know that it doesn't support many integrals but was hoping to find a program for it that would. Unfortunately, most of what I have found either uses the calculators own deffinitions or may be too big, I just found erable and am going to look at it. I only have the original 128k of mem and can't afford a RAM card so programs like erable may be too large for me. Any suggestions?? Kevin dgeve: I think that his project and yours may be complementary works First and second section of Programming in sysRPL by Eduardo Kalinowsky are a good start point. (Of course you know this book, do you?) Although it refers to HP48 models, many things, if not everithing at all, may be applied to HP49. Ciao, Marco Virgil inquired: This is, of course, the same as editing in Approx. mode and then just pressing ENTER, as was elsewhere suggested; it works on programs, lists, arrays, numbers, etc. as well. -[]- Lo people ! but a still have a newbie question ..... Can anyone tell me how to do text formatting on hp49 I want to put my phisics, math, and chemistry lessons in it, so i need to put equtions and etc ... The top notch would be to right the lessons on the PC then transfer them on the calc .... Thx in advance .... I use Lupa for that purpose, and works very good, the only remark is that you have to convert yor formulas in grobs for pretty print view. Thx but how do i do that ? (i know im a BIG NEWBIE) Thx in advance ! Matthias You can assemble such texts with WinHP on your PC and transfer them to the 49. Install the TGV library to view them on the 49. Both programs are available from hpcalc. Greets, Marco the only problem I 've found with TGV is thai it doesn't use minifont reducing the number of characters per line. 1. Download from hpcalc lupa49 2. create on your pc, using your preferred text editor, a list containg all the information you want: ex: GROB 10 x 10 } 3. Load it in the calc 4. recall the list on the stack and launch lupa That's all This is for the 48. On the 49 the ADISP GROB has always 64 rows. So you don' t have to resize it. X Haa - HP is finally *really* going back to it's roots: The measuring devices eg. Agilent is manifacturing the 12C CPU nowadays!!! Could this be true? Maybe they will make the future HP 5n GX models, too??! Veli-Pekka, STARTing rumors again....what NEXT ? I think calculators can be a very valuable marketing asset for Agilent. HP calculators have been the first contact with HP for engineering students, and I guess (this is only speculation) that it has had a strong influence on the preeminence of HP workstations (compared to Sun) in engineering shops. Of course, another factor is the excellent quality of HP instrumentation, now manufactured by Agilent. I think that Agilent would really benefit from the excellent brand image HP calculators have or used to have. Borja. P.S: I am not a marketing professional, just a curious observer. Not that I abandoned hope, but with all critisism against calculators there are 2 things possible: 1) We wont see an HP calculator again. 2) HP is aleady working at some future model, which is going to be the absolute breaker. And they don't want anybody to even assume that the next thing is coming up. I dream about the second possibility. :-) Hmmm, perhaps they (HP) need some convincing (assimilating) arguments, to make the HP 5n GX. Should we send rcobo, assimilate them and convince them to do the right thing? Nick. (willing to join the rumors stream :-) ) Karagiaouroglou says... yes, yes, they need to believe. seeing is believing. they need to see the making of the machine. they will be assimilated. 3 of 3 to mainBorg: Comms protocol set to red_alert. Testing assimUnit......OK Testing convinceUnit...OK Testing screwDriver....OK All subsystems up and running. Ready for assimAction. 3 of 3 awaiting further commands. Beep Beep! Nick. I love RPN and quality HP calculators. I've never owned a TI that lasted more than a year before it went from an expensive toy to a cheap piece of shitty plastic with the worlds poorest keypads (not counting the HP-31/32/33/34 switches which were on a par with TI's). I've been an HP user since 1977. The raw computing power in a Pocket PC (even my $199.00 Jornada 525) so overwhelms the processor speed and memory capability of an HP-48GX or an HP-49G that I don't see a real need to have a dedicated piece of hardware called a calculator in the future, though for sentimental reasons I'll continue to keep a 48GX at home, one in the office and back them up with my HP-15C, HP-42S, two HP-28Ss and when the enemy is finally at the gate and I'm too old to read the LCD screens, my HP-67 with its non-continuous memory and its bright little LEDs. After that, I'll fall back to my Post Versalog and my K&E Log Log Decitrig. :-) I expect that it will be a lot easier to have a killer calculator living next to WORD and EXCELL in a fast Pocket PC than in any other hardware form. This is not what I want, but it seems to make sense that it is the direction things are heading. This disassociation of hardware and calculator may make the calculator world a frightenly powerful place to live. Just my $0.02 Jim Klein (snip) Other than disbanding ACO, what have they done? (snip) The ROM's future is uncertain right now. JYA has mentioned that he will try to see it GPL'd, and a lot of people have supported this with their voices here if nothing else. If the ROM goes GPL, it is basically freed for public use, modification, and redistribution; so a good hacker could fix a few bugs, add a few features, optimize a few routines, and release the hip new 20-x-jrf7Dec2001 ROM, and communicate his improvements. You could have patch sets, and development tools, and modular ROM distributions, and groups of people working on different parts of the ROM, and all *kinds* of such neatness. We'll have, basically, our own operating system to improve and play with on hardware we've bought with our peers. Anyway, I think you overestimate the place of the ROM; the 49G is pretty extendable any way you look at it, so it's not as if you are *doomed* if the ROM is static and opaque. Case in point: I notice that nobody has bothered to put a periodic table in ROM, yet! (and there's no graphical memory viewer, but just *look* at how many of those things people've made!) If you're a programmer, all existing code is a jumping point toward future improvement and developement and usefulness -- no matter what happens. Sure, in the year 2043 you may how to crack his library, and you can add the feature you always wanted to it! (This is a joke, of course; by 2043 we will have wristcomps.) This is certainly a danger, and as time passes it is a certainty. When those braincomps and wristcomps come, my 49G use will certainly plummet. The community will shrink too -- and, relatively, it's already shrinking, been shrinking, and will only shrink faster; TI is sucking up more and more people and few will care to hunt for other calculators when they A) do not know enough to know what they lack, and B) are satisfied with this ignorance. And as you've seen and as you can see in yourself, a lot of people seem to be taking ACO's departure as a deathtoll for the 49G; some of these will leave the community and use other calculators. More may never come, when the word is spread about how the 49G is 'unsupported'. So, if your concern is with the 49G community, I hope I've properly fed your fears. Hey, just by having a calculator you are way in the minority! And do you have a computer? Whew! Better not instigate Fortunately, you have either practical or ... nonpractical use of your 48GX, and have some idea of what the 49G will mean to you. If a TI-92 or somesuch will fit your needs and your personality, and you think the benefits of support and community outweigh the advantages of flexibility, extendability, and a really astounding number of man-years and ingenuity that exist in the 49G: fine! Buy the TI-92 and be happy with it and never look back. I'd never do this, but I don't have time to add the little footnote explaining why. Maybe tomorrow. (snip) If all we want to do is add and subtract, we don't even need the raw processing power of the HP48! Pocket PCs have their place. They have a nice front end for a majority of users. They can do more things out of the box. But that is also their limitation. In order to be as user friendly as possible, developers must try to think of everything everyone might want, so that each person can use the few things they need personally. The rest of the features are unused, wasting storage space, memory and sometimes processing power. It is this overhead that makes the Jornada 548 barely able to emulate the 4Mhz Saturn processor at normal HP48 speed. Perhaps rather than calling it a calculator, we should start referring to it as a personal graphics device or something like that. A device with a basic front end for the average user, with access to a powerful lower level language and also directly to the machine instruction set, enables users of varying capablilities to take full advantage of the units abilities. As to whether or not such a device is necessary, that will depend on what it CAN do, not on what it DOES do. And how impressively it does it. If you described PONG to someone 25 years ago, no one would have bought it. (I saw this great game. It's like tennis, only you spin a knob to hit the ball back and forth. ) It was only when you played it that you had to have one :) Similarly the HP48 once wowed, now it takes a bit of knowledge of history to do so. A device with great potential, sold at low cost, and released among a large number creative and talented people, will sell itself exponentially. And make its developers very rich. Whatever this thing does, it must make everyone who sees it go WOW! Then they will buy it. Some will try to use it, some will learn to use it, some will do amazing things with it. But it will sell! Dennis Personally I do not want anything else that runs using any Microsoft software and it's bloated code. I do not need another computer that crashes. I have two already and that is enough. The reason we need faster processors and larger hard drives and more memory is that software developers have no incentive to design efficient code. If you read the latest issue of PC Magazine; faster processors have not really gotten us a far as they could, because of this factor. At least the designers of the 48 and 49 had the memory limitations to force them to become more efficient in their coding. I am afraid the lure of faster processor and more memory in a new HP calculator will lead to the same problems, especially if HP uses a Windows derived OS as a shortcut to get the calculator to market faster and does not write its own independent and optimized OS. I do not need a PDA since I have no need for spread sheets on the run and I do not go to meetings. For the most important people I know, I have either memorized their phone numbers or have them on my Timex watch. I see no need in having the numbers of 100 or more people on a PDA when I might call them once every two years. For that I use what is called a phone book. Harold A. Climer Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy U. Tennessee at Chattanooga X Only the Saturn CPU chip Yorke (along with the display pixel count) It's the software that counts. A new ROM 1.19-7 will appear AND in the meanwhile this group will find an answer withe or without HP's help !!! There will be new HP calculators from the new division in USA and the TI/HP are both good calculators. Suggestion: Kepp your HP 48GX (if you already own one) AND buy the 49G and you will have it all !!! (like I do) New division in USA? New calculators? Are you talking about new hp12 machines? Seeing hp39/40 math diferences between USA and Europe, I don't expect much mathematical power from USA HP products... J.Manrique CdU de la ETSIG Spending $18.4 billion to purchase Compaq when HP is already facing shrinking revenues for one. It actually makes me wonder if HP will go the way of DEC... (marginalized until someone who doesn't understand the value buys them out) That would be an excellent development of course! That is a great way to continue the evolution of the platform and to make the HP49 stay competetive. However, if my read of this is correct (that the hardware will cease to be manufactured at some point?) then it doesn't do a lot of good. People's HP49's will eventually break, wear out, get lost, etc. and without the ability to replace them, they'll have to revert to something like TI. Of course (I've been a Debian developer for years). There is a Actually, I was not at all concerned about the ROM. I was concerned about the hardware platform. Seeing things like Java on my HP48GX I know how expandable the system is without even modifying the ROM. I am quite sure that the HP49G will more adequately fit my needs. The concern is this: if indeed the HP49G has now become a dead end as far as HP is concerned (this much even seems uncertain), everyone is going to be forced over to someone else sooner or later. How soon? I don't know. If HP stops selling graphing calculators tomorrow, I would suspect that even if the ROM is GPL'd and all the old hats stay around, there won't be a lot of work done. If HP continues selling the 49G for three or four years, then I'd buy one in an instant. I don't know what their plans are though. -- John Just to remind you that HP aren't spending any money at all on buying Compaq since it is an all share offer. The money comes from issuing new share-capital which means that all existing shareholders see their shares diluted in value by a fraction that is roughly equal to $18.4bn divided by the total number of HP shares currently issued. -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com The theory of such purchases is that the shares of the buyer are not diluted. After the purchase, there are more shares in the combined company, but the post-acquisition per-share value is comparable to the pre-acquisition value since the assets are now those of the combined company. Remember that at least in theory, the acquired company's assets are valuable and wind up owned by the acquiring company. In practice, the acquiring company often manages to screw up the acquired company and wind up with little value. For instance, just about every acquisition that AT&T ever did. Or Compaq's acquisition of DEC. (snip) (snip again my support, since anyone with a brain can come to the same conclusions) Scribe and Organizer, I think for both 48 and 49, are on hpcalc.org and make a pretty good PIM. Of course with this data you can just make a big CHOOSE You talking about the autosimplification feature? Get the TI-92+ emulator and try it yourself. I did the same when I have to choose between the Texas and the 49. Sorry if you read this post for the second time. I have to repost it because of an unidentified problem :-( Le 2 Nov 2001 02:41:09 -0800, gtsiros@yahoo.com (George Tsiros) a 216crit : gx. It is a great idea, but you are not the only one who have this project. There is 3 french projects like this one : - ShellOS was a multitasking OS for the HP48Gx. There is a demo available (I think you can find it on hpcalc.org). Unfortunately it seems that the authors can't work on this project anymore, and that thay have lost the sources :-( - SOS (Saturn Operating System) was a project started by myself. It is a multitasking OS. It was designed for the HP49G but could easily be adapted to the HP48. Actually there is only a little part of the kernel done (and sorry, the documentation is in french, but it could be translated), so there is no demo available. You can download the sources here : http://clement.pillias.free.fr/hp/SOS.zip or here : http://clement.pillias.free.fr/hp/SOS.tgz Actualy I don't work on this project since I want to finish Doom first. - WinSOS is a project similar to SOS, started by Yves Brisseaud (the one who did the MASD mode for emacs recently). The project also include a graphical user interface made by someone else (sorry I don't remember his name :-( ). This project is not more advanced than SOS, and can be found here : http://www.winsos.cjb.net Since WinSOS take some parts from SOS, the two projects will probably merge in a near future, at least to have a common kernel. Well, it could be funny to merge your project with this two ones ;-) Sorry for my poor english. Bye. Cl216ment Pillias (HpFool). Yes, that is the right name. SOS for the HP calcs. ;-) Only joking (but with a bitter taste, regarding that HP seems to abandon tha calculators :-( ) Greetings, Nick. Has anyone else experienced difficulty in obtaining these books: Science and Engineering Mathematics on the HP49G Vol1 and Vol2? According to the web site (BookSurge), all books ship within 48 hours. I ordered these books over three weeks ago. I can't get much of a response to my inquiries. Can these books be ordered somewhere else. Pat Moran I ordered mine on the thirtieth and got a message on Friday, after an inquiry, from a fellow named Rick Jones rickjones@greatunpublished.com, who said it was to be shipped on Friday the 2nd. Does anyone know where the books are really shipped from? I think I remember when I bought one of Dr. Urroz's books for the 48, that it came from North Carolinas. Any comments? with all the commotion going on about creating the next best super powerful calculator I can't refrain to at least speak my mind. We have to acknowledge that the entire industry is shifting and for a reason. I'm not saying that it is a good or bad decision and I'm happy to see initiative and creative thinking to look for alternatives from users that do not want to settle with the corporate decision making process. What I do not understand is why everyone thinks that the power has to come from the unit at hand. I read many debates about which CPU to use, at how many Hz it should run and different compromises to conserve power. There is a lot computing power around us and we don't use it. Nevertheless, we want to have the most powerful number crunching machine close to us. For the most part I like to agree, I'm a performance freak myself. However, this paradigm is NOT practical. At least not now that communication technologies abound. I believe that the next best calculator (or any portable computing device for that matter) should take advantage of that and run as a dummy terminal. essence, everywhere I have an internet device I can access the power of a robust tool that is sitting on my home machine doing nothing most of the day on my idle P3 1Ghz w/ 256mb RAM. The question is, If I already have that, why do I need to worry about how much power I can squeeze from a 4 Mhz Saturn CPU, StrongARM or any other microcontroller? They can not compete. Therefore, we should we worrying about how we can harness that power and make it accessible. PDA’s with internet access are great for displaying information, they have nice big LCD’s (plots converted to gif’s, formulas, etc on a browser). The port of the wrapper could easily be done for Maple, MathCAD or any other of your favorite applications. I realize that you still need to have a powerful math application, an expensive PDA with web access, have your computer set-up as a web server always connected via cable-modem or other connections. But that is why the industry is shifting, in the near future this will not be an issue, just like cell phones are today (that’s another idea, how about accessing MAPLE with your phone). This is just a prototype and in the future could serve hundreds of users (license issues may have to be resolved). Business could offer the service and charge small fees for its use, via a monthly payment or a one time subscription, so user don’t have to worry about having the latest most powerful calculator gadget on the block using valuable real state on your pocket. Anyone with a small HTML capable device with a connection will enjoy the same capabilities, no matter if you paid $600 for your color LCD PDA or the simplest most featureless internet capable organizer. This is just for consideration, it has its limitations and problems but I believe it is a legitimate alternative that more people should start looking into. The corollary of all this is that application development should focus on robust OO languages available for PC platforms (like the C++ CAS being developed by B. Parisse for example) under GPL licenses and then create ways to access its power with Of course, this alternative would be out of the question for exams like the EIT, PE, GRE, SAT, etc, but this is more for everyday work/education on mathematics, engineering, physics, etc. You would still have to study for you exams !!!!!! J Do not discard this too soon, give it some though, you’ll realize it make a lot of sense. At least it does to me. On the other hand, who am I. J Just a graduate foreign engineering student at the University of Florida. Go GATORS! BTW. I’m a proud owner of an HP49. Sorry, I totally disagree. I am an engineer and allthough building sites are getting pretty sofisticated I doubt there'll be an Internet Connection on the 10th floor when the concrete hasen't even been poured. My meetings also rarely have computers or IP connections though the developers are usually flashing the latest PDA's and phones. Actually I have a little snigger when the money men hold up the meetings for 5 minutes to enter the next meeting time in their calander. Paper is still best for somethings. As for wireless technology a lot of remote sites don't even have Mobile When I'm out of the office 90% of the time all I want to do are simple back of envelope type calcs so something small with instant On is a must. I don't take my laptop to meetings or site since it's bulky, fragile and to slow to boot up. Anything that needs a laptop is probably to complex to be giving quick answers away from the office. I find that with the HP49 I am using spreadsheets a lot less. Spreadsheets have an inherent flaw that they hide how a result was derived leading to errors that aren't caught. The laptop is being used for detailed design runs, 2D/3D analysis, correspodence, comminication.......... Can't they? The XScale is built around the Pentium III core, and @ 1 GHz scores 1280 MIPS. Pretty decent of a 1.7 W processor. And they use alot of power - how does 4-5 hours sound like? A powerplug is as rare on most grounds where such a device is needed, as internet access is. And a flat-rate dedicated 400 Mbit/s wireless internet connection. That's not in the near future. You'd have an equal hard time maintaining all this, with internet connectivity, html and so forth. Why will such software not run on the portable device itself? But this stems from the whole idea of not having a calculator anymore - you'd need to some extent to make such a device usable for students. Not as a primary goal, but usable nonetheless. Diego, I like the idea in principle, but I think that the wireless technology and coverage that would enable the connections needed are too far away. Always-on connections are here, but there isn't much take-up of them due to cost and availability at the moment, but this could change. So I think your idea should be tried just to see how well it worked.. Personally I would not want to rely on a global infrastructure to ensure that I would be able to do some calculations. I agree that the power available in PCs is much greater than that in low power devices like calculators. But for most of us, this power is heavily diluted by the fact that the machines are running Windows and compiled or interpreted software. The HP calculators like the 49 and 48 allow low-level use to optimise performace, and get rid of all the overhead which comes with making everything user-friendly etc. Not that I'm against user-friendliness :-) happen. Mark I understant your point. I meant wireless internet connection. In fact, I do that all the time right know. I connect with my PDA to my home PC and common in the future. As a matter of fact, regarding your comment, there is nothing to disagree about. I did not make any assertions, just commented on some use of a current technology that will keep growing, my message was just about finding yet another use for it (the technology). I know that some might argue that the communications overhead outweight the potential for practical use. My answer is YES, it is true. This is not convenient for everyday use nor simple calculations. However, any PDA with decent software can handle simple calculations with ease so you won't need the remote connection. I'm thinking about complex, high precision calculations that not even the best calculator can handle but robust mathematical packages like Maple or Mathematica can. A good example is optimization topics. For calculators, there are some programs for LP problem using the simplex method which can't even handle degeneracy and other complications in discrete number theory. Lets not even go to mix integer programs, or stochastic programming, global optimization, non-linear opt, etc. I'm in Operation Research and calculators do not help me that much in problems with large number of varaibles and constraints. With this I can have modeling languages like AMPL and solvers like CPLEX available all the time. Just write and send the model in AMPL, let the wrapper do its work, and receive the answer from the solver in my web-enabled wireless device. I know, these are now problems that are likely to come up in the middle of the street or shopping and you have to have an answer. But, it is good to know you can count on it if you do need it.Otherwise, why bother, any good HP or TI is overkill for daily use. Today the communications overhead IS a constraint, but, can you say that 1-2 years down the road. Maybe, maybe not. Just a thought. Diego. minutes back be Spreadsheets We all have different requirements. With all this talk of a supercalc I wanted to make sure that the thing doesn't bloat into something that will no longer be convenient for what is the core functions of a Calculater. Quick, go anyware, small, allways there when you need it. Runs forever so you never worry about batteries. If the next great calc doesn't fullfill my needs I can see me having to put the 49 in cotton wool cause it's going to have to last a long time. My HP41 did me 12 years and is still working on the last batteries I put in it 18 months ago. do common finding the problem I the or 1-2 sites Connection for to I found your reply interesting , I've often wondered if Surveyors were the only people that need a small light weight and long lasting battery capability. I could carry a laptop into the woods with me and possibly put up with the weight factor but when your using it all day long (sometimes hooked to the gun ) the battery is the real issue. The 48 slips nicely into a large BDU type pocket or a small section of your backpack. No, the XScale is build around an ARM core (ARM v.5TE instruction set). A Pentium III core would always consume MORE than 1.7W @ 1GHz... J232rn problem Intel 80200 device doesn't have hardware to run? Stop talking about puny little calculators - they are not in this league. 1-2 Don't know. It'll cost you., that's for sure. Network licenses of software is usually much more expensive than single PC licenses. You're usually allowed to use a single PC license on all your own personal computers, so if you save USD 10,000 on the software, you'd easily throw an extra USD 200 at a smart math device, wouldn't you? So my choice are: 1) one time purchase of a 'regular' calculator for ~$200 2) one time purchase of 'your' calculator for $100 and $100/month for airtime to use it? So over a year plan 1 costs $200 while plan 2 costs $1300. Yeah! That sounds like a great deal! And I'll have no problems using it anywhere right? Steel building? Mall? Basement? Parking garage? Subway? Car? Don't take this wrong but it sounds like your idea is a 'cool' answer to a question nobody has asked. (i.e. misuse of technology just for technology's sake) -- john R. Latala jrlatala@golden.net And here I thought I was the only one with this pet peeve. Devices with battery lifetimes measured in hours just seem like such dumb ideas. It's one thing if it's for something like a forklift truck that you charge up overnight when you're done for the day but for something you can throw into a briefcase or backpack and take with you it's seems kind of ludicrous. I remember a friend of mine ranting and raving about how much smaller his new portable CD player was. When I asked to see it he showed me the carryall bag he kept it in ... along with 20 CDs, three battery packs and the charger. -- john R. Latala jrlatala@golden.net Yes. I know I've read it somewhere a long time ago, but it showed up to be in another context. See this paper: http://www.intel.com/design/iio/prodbref/80310.htm I've crossposted from alt.lang.basic for the writer. Please reply to me jwwed@supanet.com ----------------------------- Original post ----------------------------- how do I write an HP48 emulator in dos How 2 do it? PS: i've not crossposted to comp.sys.hp(?)because i don't have access to it. -- mIRC on #Win9x na Brasnet e #Novocanal da Dalnet, al216m de irc.via-rs.com.br no canal #chatcity. AIm: Renan Birck ComVC:1127268 Would there be a chance for an HP-16C? A computer programmer calculator on the palm! Week ago I bought myself HP49G. Well, I can't say that I'm too happy to read all this stuff about ACO and such, but what should I say. I know why I bought it, and I'm wery pleased with it. I have few questions. When I try to transfer some programs from friend's 48 to my 49, both calculators report invalid syntax, and stop the transfer. What could be the cause, and how can I fix that. Is there any program for 49, that can calculate specific heat capacity. In both calculators use ASCII transfer In the 49G: [MODE] [F3] [DOWN-ARROW] [DOWN-ARROW] Check the Approx Mode by pressing [F3] [F6] [F6] Now your 49G is in the 48G Compatibility Mode I hope this helped! Veli-Pekka PS: you're not related to O. BLaden, are you? ;-) read 48 Hewlett Family Opposes Support of Compaq Deal: Hewlett Family, Packard Heir Oppose Compaq Merger: :: CODE GOSBVL =SAVPTR * Save RPL pointers GOSUB ASCII NIBHEX 6464 ASCII C=RSTK D1=C LC(5) 00022 D=C A B=0 A LC(5) 00004 GOSBVL =$5x7 GOVLNG =GETPTRLOOP * return to System RPL ENDCODE ; Here is thedocumentation for the entry $5x7: ***************************************************************** ***************************************************************** ** *A Name: $5x7 - Write 5x7 pxl data for string at Ith char in Row ** ** Category: DSPUTL ** ** Abstract: Writes 5x7 bit patterns for given character string ** starting at specified address (S) offset by a character ** position index (I). Data for subsequent pixel rows of ** each character is offset by (W) nibs from the preceding. ** ** ** D0:S (Start of row) ** B[A]: I (Chr Pos'n (0 - ..)) ** C[A]: N (String Length) ** D[A]: W (Row Width in nibs) ** ** Exit: 5x7 Bit Pattern for string written. ** XM: Font Table Flag (0=5x7, 1=5x9) ** CC iff next chr is at even location. ** ** Alters: CPU - A[A],B[A],C[S,A]; D0,D1; P, CARRY, SB,XM ** RAM - Destination ** ** Calls: PtBits(0), sub8/10(0), Set8/10(0) ** ** Stack Levels: 4 (RSTK=C GOSUB go?Covered CON(5) =cPt2Bits) ** ** Notes: ** (1). The 5x7 font for Chr Pixels is at =PIX5X7, 16 bytes/chr ** The 5x9 font for Chr Pixels is at =PIX5X9, 20 bytes/chr ** -------------------------------------------------------------- ** (2). Generally, the starting address S is the start of ** pixel data for a row of the display. I is an ** option base 0 index specifying where the pixel data for ** the 1st character will start in the given row. The ** address X where the 1st character will start is: ** ** X := S + 1.5*I (each char takes 6 bits = 1.5 nibs) ** ** The width W is the number of nibs that must be added to ** X to obtain the address where the 2nd row of pixel data ** for the 1st char should be written. ** -------------------------------------------------------------- ** (3). Applications - Writing string pixel data: ** ** a) Into a grob. ** b) Directly into Display Refresh RAM ** ** Implied by (a) is substring replacement operations. ** ie; ability to replace a specified number of characters ** in a grob with others. ** -------------------------------------------------------------- ** D0:S (Start of row) ** B[A]: I (Chr Pos'n (0 - ..)) ** C[A]: N (String Length) ** D[A]: W (Row Width in nibs) As you can see, your WIDTH is incorrectly set, it should be zero if you want to display at the beginning of the screen (cf the documentation This is what I'd do (tested, but not in Jazz syntax): ASSEMBLE NIBASC HPHP49-C RPL :: CODE GOSBVL =SAVPTR GOSUB ascii NIBHEX 6464 * NIBASC FF should also work ascii C=RSTK D1=C LC(5) #22 * 22h = 34d nibbles D=C A B=0 A LC(5) #2 * FF is only two characters GOSBVL =$5x7 GOVLNG =GETPTRLOOP ENDCODE ( now freeze the screen, else you won't see anything ) SetDAsTemp ; Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them. In case this documentation does not exist for the public in such a thorough form, is there a chance we could get a copy of it? This would be wondereful! Rgds, -Al -- -Al Arduengo ------------ If at first you don't succeed, redefine success. -- -Al Arduengo ------------ The higher we soar, the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly. -- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietsche Well, that's the information you find in the source code itself jean-yves snip -- -Al Arduengo ------------ Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. -- Sigmund Freud -- -Al Arduengo ------------ He who laughs last thinks slowest! What should I see? At the moment, all I can see is a smudge in the top left hand corner of the screen. Do I need to adjust settings etc. on the 49 to see the string? Confused Now. I am compiling under HP Tools. Timothy Ney It may be a mistake in my conversion from MASD to Jazz/HPTools syntax (I only use the GNUTools for hacking around on Jazz). This is my MASD source: :: CODE GOSUB .c NIBHEX 6464 *.c C=RSTK D1=C LC(5) 34 D=C.A B=0.A LC(5) 2 GOSBVL $5x7 LOADRPL ENDCODE SetDAsTemp ; CRC #01FAh, 42 bytes Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them. Yep, you are right about speed. I still wonder though, what speed could be reached if the hardware would be a little more modern. Hmmm, and is it as easy to use? I mean is it: buy it, get it out of the box and use it? I have the (perhaps wrong) impression that PocketPC and GPL software are not as easy to get them running. Or do I live in the past (again)? Now, *that* is a good idea! I hope that all people from the scientific/technology world can stand together, to give the companies reason for making a math-PDA at last. :-) Well, if everything is pre-installed and works before delivery then it would be fine. But it would be not so good to expect from the user to be a PC expert to install and configure everything. Yes, yes, yes. :-) I meant something that doesn't need a standard OS (windows -yacks!!!) for other software to run. Something that has its own (easy) OS and doesn't need 100 configuration files, only to tell you then that program A can't run because file B is not there. (While you see that file B is there ;-) ) What is Maxima? Math-software? Yes, and a very strong touch, it seems. Do you think that the Jedis will return? What do you think it would be like? I guess it would be more in the direction of the question, is A.I a living thing or not? If it knows that it is there, it is a living thing? Take care, Nick. I'm just programming a little in UserRPL, and now I'm in need to convert a list of elements (real numbers) into a vector. Has anyone an idea, for i couldn't find a suitable command in the manual. Paul works pretty well. If you are using a HP49, I think AXL would work. -Al -- -Al Arduengo ------------ Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. That's relativity. -- Albert Einstein -- -Al Arduengo ------------ If you can smile when things go wrong, you have someone in mind to blame. -- This message was written with 100% recycled electrons Pivo Chapter 12 of the User's Guide starting at page 12-11, and continueing on to chapter 13 for the 48G. There are built in commands for 'vectorization' and parallel commands which you might 'think' should work, but don't. you { 2.0 45.0} This is a LIST, not a vector or an array. you [ 2.0, 45.0 ] This looks like a vector. [2.0, 45.0] directly. If you want a 'radius, angle' type of vector you have to change from RECT mode to CYLIN *before* the conversion. '<' stands in for the little angle glyph which is on the keyboard as {rightarrow SPC}. Note that changing the mode to Cylin has the effect of changing all vectors in the stack to their 'other' form.. conversions which existed on the HP41 and from the 48SX. I ended up writing small subroutines which do these conversions on the 48GX changing mode as required and restoring them. The conversion normalizes theta to +/- 180 which is no good for navigation.. The implementation is left to the student as a learning experience (because in fact, you will learn more by playing around and writing your own.. You can also use the -15, -16, -17 and -18 flags, which makes state restoration easier to assess and reset.) Geoff { 2 3 4 } [ [ 2 3 4 ] ] This works for every dimension. Christoph I've been asking lots of questions here lately, mainly because I'm still in the process of configuring my Calc to suit my needs as an engineering student. My intention is to post most of my config here, and maybe get some new ideas and feedback from you! (Before commenting the names of my dirs and variables, keep in mind that it's just names that fits my taste... I'm sure everybody would come up with something different.) OK, about my Calc: It's a HP48GX with the newest Rom and a 512 Kb memory card. Hmm, anything else? I don't think so, let's get on with it! - INSTALLED LIBRARIES - Port0: (68K Free) 257: UFL (full version) 905: QPI 1081: GxTools 5.1 1696: AllMem Port2: (104K Free) 769: Tetris (yeah!) 807: TicTacToe 1111: Sokoban 1213: Lemmings Port3: (56K Free) 744: SymVector 909: Alg48 4.2 911: SpecFun (Alg48) 913: InteGr (Alg48) 1494: NeoPoly 6.5 Port4: (57K Free) 788: Erable v. 3.117 789: Arit (Erable) 790: Geom (Erable) 791: Prep (Erable) 792: LinAlg (Erable) Port5: (123K Free) System Backup - HOME DIRECTORY STRUCTURE - First, I have 6 subdirectories for CST-menu: Numeric, Games, Utilities, Applications, Computer, Conversion Numeric is equivalent to the Calc's MTH menu, just more advanced, and with the commands I use (more about that later). Games is for entertainment! :-) Utilities is for extensions to the calc, not found in the MTH menu (e.g. Limits, Diff. Equations, Integrals etc.). Applications is for specific programs (none installed yet). Computer contains user units from bit to Tbit and byte to Tbyte. Conversion contain radian, binary and HMS conversion commands. Next is 4 subdirs for customization: Formulas, Functions, Text, Libraries Formulas is for custom equations from textbooks, which can be solved with the equation solver. Functions is where I store my custom programs (mainly vector/complex commands, and my RD10 program). Text is for storing small messages and ToDo notes - nice and handy. Libraries is primarily for storage of downloaded/uninstalled libraries but currently I only have a backup copy of Keys and Flags there. Then there's 2 variables EQ and VX, and the user units byte/bit-Tbyte/bit. And of course CST-menu and parameter files. - USER KEYS - OK, now it gets interesting. The very first custom element is, that the keys A-F have shift-assignments. This is virtually 12 free user keys, as I very rarely use shifted menus (and if I must, I can turn off user). For my basic config, these 6 have the letters A-F left-assigned, and X,Y,Z,N,T and my function dir ({HOME Functions}) right-assigned. Next up, alpha-right H and J is assigned to -OO and +OO (that's infinity). Then right-[STO] is STEQ and left-[<-] is AllMem; right-[EVAL] is QPI and [EVAL] is my RD10 function, which converts to numeric, and rounds the answer to 10 digits (QPI can still convert correctly to symbolic). For alpha keyboard, right-V, right-W and right-X is assigned to their normal functions (root, y^x and 1/x), so you can use them while in alpha mode. The [ENTER] key has DUP assigned to the left and EVAL assigned to the right (I rarely use Equation/Matrix), these commands are more handy for programming purposes... Finally, right-[DEL] has array to list conversion, and right-[BS] has array (2D) to complex conversion. In addition, the 9 number keys have some key bindings in user mode, for instance 6 (units) have unit factorization (left) and SI-unit conversion (right). In some cases I have to turn off the user keys if I want to enter the standard applications, but I prefer command line operations all the way. - CUSTOM MENU - Finally, there's the custom menu. Apart from the basic commands mentioned in the dir section, there are some more submenus in the Numeric and Utility parts. The Numeric menu contains 6 submenus so far: Vector, Matrix, Polynomial, Algebra, Real, Complex The first 4 are special, since when you enter these menus, part of the keyboard is also remapped. Vector and Matrix has commands from Alg48 assigned to the +, -, *, / and 1/x buttons. Besides, the right-[ENTER] is now the Erable command EXPAND instead of EVAL. Polynomial has commands from NeoPoly assigned to the equivalent buttons (y^x instead of 1/x), and Algebra returns the keyboard to normal. The Utility menu contains 4 submenus, namely: Simplify, Limits, Integration, Diff. Equations. Here I've put different Erable commands for these subjects... For instance, my integration menu is: - FINAL REMARKS - For the custom menu, I've made GROB's to represent: 1: The 4 first labels in the Numeric menu, because programs are executed. 2: The first label in every dir-menu, so that you can tell CST-menu from VAR's (the first tab is slighty longer). I would like to enhance my configuration even more, but I still need to do some of the menus... I've also thought about installing EQSTK, it's my impression it will work well with this config. But please, if you have any comments, do not hesitate to respond, I'm interested in your feedback! -- . Artur Meinild . . . . . : . 232lge R ud237r . . . ___________________________________________________ E.87site : 6paq.messages.to : W.87site : 6paq.go.to I just got the 49G and the instructions are horrible that came with it. I was wondering how I would go about doing the sample program the instructions give on page 10-2? I type it all out on the main line but when I push STO the words come out instead of the arrow. Am I supposed to be in some special mode? Also How would I use an equation written in pretty type and put that into the program? Is there a site with a better manual? Verify you're in RPN mode: that's the best way to get quickly a good programmer on the HP49g. Press 'Mode', then choose 'RPN' instead of the level 1 of the stack. Enter the name of the variable you want to use, with simple quotes: 'NameOfProg'. Now you have on level 2 the prog, an on level 1 the global name of the prog. Press 'STO'. It should work ! A piece of advice: forget absolutely Algebraic programming: very slow, very few people using it... Anyway, you can either press the key 'STO' or type in the command line 'STO' and then valid: both work in RPN mode. For tutorials, visit www.hpcalc.org, www.hp-network.com (french-speaking site) or www.hp-sources.com (french too) I hope it will help you, HPThifu First of all, are you in RPN or algebraic mode? Generally speaking, when you program, you start and end the program by before the program end delimiter, then this command is added as a part of the program. In algebraic mode, you can press ENTER when typing the program is finished, and then use STO to store the program. In RPN Mode you can press ENTER then the name of the variable to store the program and the press STO to store the program. Hope it helped, Nick. to get out of it. THen I push STO and type a name in. It says too few arguments and doesnt show the arrow when I push STO. I instructions STO and Remember, RPN requires the arguments THEN the command. You are pressing STO when there is no name on the stack to store the code in. Simply press ENTER when you are done typing the program. Then type in a name between the '' marks (use the ' key) press ENTER again. You should now have your program on stack level 1 and the name on stack level 2. *Then* press STO. -Al -- -Al Arduengo ------------ obsessive-compulsive, please press 1 repeatedly. If you are co-dependent, please ask someone to press 2. If you have multiple personalities, please press 3, 4, 5 and 6. If you are paranoid-delusional, we know who you are and what you want - just stay on the line so we can trace the call. If you are -- -Al Arduengo ------------ Software is like sex: the best is for free -- Linus Torvalds X Yeah !!! X Ofcourse an ASIC will cost greekly more than FPGA BUT I think it's worth it ! Veli-Pekka The Marketing Manager of the Virtual Platform(TM) OS ;-) The specs that have been suggested here for a new, much-improved 'better-than-HP' calculator included things like a nice low-power ARM processor, lots of memory, smaler physical size ... perhaps we'd all end up with something like this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/22699.html (No, this is not intended as a serious suggestion for choosing a base for such a product - but perhaps lessons can be learned, ideas borrowed, from this device.) // Christian Hmm, I haven't seen this before, but I can comment a bit on similarities: Pogo Virtual Platform ;-) CPU: 75 MHz ARM 1 GHz ARM RAM 16 MB 96-512 MB Interface: Stylus Keyboard MP3: Yes Yes Screen; Resol.: 320x240 320x240 Colour: Yes No (grayscale) Backl. No Yes Batterylife; On: 5-6 h 250 h Std.by: 100 h 3 years+ USD: 435 150-250 So you want to design a Jupiter A next generation of Saturn with HW multiplication, etc... Veli-Pekka X OK! For the third generation that is! 1) Make Saturn XP = X=10=#Ah timers the P=Power eg. new process & lower voltage 2) Make Jupiter, a HW enhanced Saturn XP 3) Go to Xscale-II for an emulated or simulated RPL-OS backwards compatible with 1) & 2) Correct? Veli-Pekka X -------- X But there is no HW floating point support (yet) :-( PS: I will still bet on the XScale-50MHz as the future 3G-calc-OS running Virtual Platform Great! Bye, Mario .vic I need to find a computer IDE program for the HP48gx that will let me write programs and debug them before downloading them to the 48gx. I don't want to do assembly language which appear to be the only type of emulators that I've found. I just want one that will let me program in the standard basic type language that is vaquely outlined in the HP manual. I have one for my TI-83 and it works great. Does anyone know where you can buy something like this for the hp48 ?? And also what exactly do the following terms represent , 1. User RPL , 2. System RPL , and 3. Flash Rom assembly language ? There are several options for programming in all the available languages and you should be able to find them at www.hpcalc.org in the PC tools and/or programming sections. Heck, you can use any text editor to program in USER RPL. As for what the languages are: 1. User RPL is the highest level language available on the calc. It provides necessary argument checking anf error detection to prevent (in most cases) crashes and data loss. User RPL is just the entire collection of all the built in commands on the calc. 2. SysRPL is System RPL. It is the set of commands that the user does not have direct access to using the calculator in a normal mode. There are many more SysRPL commands available than UserRPL but most of these commands require careful use as they do not provide automatic argument checks and error handling. You can speed up programs significantly using SysRPL and in many cases it will result in smaller code size than an equivalent UserRPL code block. SysRPL requires a compiler (available in PC executable form or several on board versions like Jazz) and a table of entry points. The table merely equates the tokens used in the source code like DUP#1+ or XYGROBDISP to their address locations in the ROM. In my opinion SysRPL is the most popular of the languages used by the regulars on this group. 3. There is no Flash Rom Assembly Language as you call it but there is Assembly Language. This is the lower level of the three we are talking about. It provides virtually direct control of every aspect of the hardware. With this control, however, comes the increased risk of crashes, data corruption etc since NO error handling o or argument checking of any kind is provided. The programmer must handle all aspects of the code insuring that possible errors are handled, argments are present when needed and memory is controlled and manipulated correctly. It is not nearly as readable as higher level languages and involves direct manipulation of the chips registers, memory contents, IO buffers etc. It also requires an assembler and linker which, as with SysRPL, is also available on the computer or the calc. Other options less popular are Machine code (hex code), an old language targetted at game design (forgot the name), and probably a few other unknowns. MASD, the programming environment found in the methods of programming in assembly. Of course the UserRPL compiler is built in and requires no third party tools to use. You can debug UserRPL on the calc or you can use Emu48 to do it all then fetch the program from the emulator to your actual calc. The possibilities are numerous. Hang around here and see. Make sure you read everything you can in the programming section of hpcalc.org. Rgds, -Al -- -Al Arduengo ------------ The only `intuitive' interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned. -- -Al Arduengo ------------ Real Programmers think better when playing Adventure or Rogue. X Could I conVince you, Vince, about the benefits of a new design of the calculators OS, implemented on an Xscale CPU. I would like to call it: Virtual Platform like in, say VP-58GX (nothing to do with Vincent Poy or Veli-Pekka ;-) $1h1$1@news.kolumbus.fi: Not a bad idea... hehe ;) Vince And maybe even Vassilis Prevelakis vprev@vp.com.gr from http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi?read=12064 would like that name? X Paul Vollbracht paul.vollbracht@toyota.be from http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi?read=12321 might ask for a coin toss - once again !!! Will the history repeat itself !!! For the Xscale version (third generation) OS: Virtual Platform eg. VP-58GX Could you, please, give some examples how many clock cycles it takes for Saturn to execute typical commands binary commands and the size of the operand ? Jack operand ? http://ca-on.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/programming/cycles.zip Note the nibbling of the 64-bit accumulators during a full-width operation. Also: No HW multiply, divide, etc.. Hmm... how did you guess that ;-) Why wouldn't I join? Sorry, I don't have $100,000 yet :-) Bhuvanesh. I think that full Sys-RPL support should exist, or do plan on rewriting a whole mathematical software suite for the new system? Yes, i believe the machine and it's OS should be totally new, and written for portability and high-level programming, however, i think that the mathematical part of the software should be sys-rpl as an interpreted language, much like it is now, because it would still evolve, if it hadn't reached the maximum capability out of the hardware. Steve Sousa No, we use commas. I see... I didn't realize that. Cool! :-) Bhuvanesh. going CAS First Emulated, later native. We can keep the emulator. 1) Saturn XP = Saturn in, say 0.25 micron process & lower voltage 2) Jupiter = greatly enhanced Saturn with 32-bit addressing, HW*/ etc. 3) XScale implementation of the Virtual Platform, runnning RPL-emulator with compiler So it be... but it's already available in the debug2 program... new (and it 150 is bit XScale 600-1200 that As if I need another Hp calculator, but the BullS*** we get from the upper management at Hp is horrendous. At least we as a group can tell when they lie to us. Just watch for their lips to move. The following answer is pat and sounds good, but now for the reality. Look around. All the major outlet stores are clearing out inventories of their Hp stock of calculators (aside from the new junk ie 10BII) That is all I find if I find Hp. I cannot find Hp32s, 20s, or 48G's anymore. I know that a few stores still carry old stock, but Target, K-mart, Walmart, Officemax and Staples only carry the 10Bii. Therefore the message below doesn't ring all that true to me. Therefore, my query, aside from a few vendors on the WEB, where do you go to buy Hp scientific calculators. If there is no major outlet, the message above is truly BS of the first order. And since I suspected as such before I posted, I can't/won't believe much from Hp upper management until refuted and proved otherwise. I await such proof, and will gladly humble myself and apologize for my skeptism. Until then however, I say: Carly Foirna and her lacky sidekick Iain Morris are two Jerk CEO's that have contributed to Hp's withdrawal of a Market that Hp used to RULE. Poor marketing and follow the leader (Ti) mentality have put Hp in the backseat on a downhill skid that probably no one can stop. No, I don't have the answers either, but I feel that Hp's abandonment of this area will cost the company prestige and market aligience in the future. My first Hp product was an Hp15c that is still with me to this day (I used and abused this calculator for nearly 10 years, prior to that I went through a Ti every year). This calculator introduced me to a whole world of instrumentation and controls as well as Pc's and printers. oh well... I await anyone to refute my comments and negative ramblings. You can buy hp48gx's at Allen Precision Equipment in Georgia for around $150.oo . The also have cogo cards for them for competive prices. Oh, well... perhaps someone realized that there are horrible major mistakes in their designs and they're being replaced. Mistakes such as premature wasting rubber keys, awful and twisted painted keys, rattling keys, low quality cases, and so on. (Not to mention the documentation, of course) In few words, it's as though Casio had taken over the industrial design of HP calcs. :-) Bye. - So they can keep their highly inflated and undeserved salaries and put people like JYA and the other members of the ACO out of work. I have always wondered why company CEOS still get bonuses when the company is losing money and downsizing thousands of people. Seems like the people that do the real work are always the first fired. Pardon me I am just venting. Harold A. Climer Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy U. Tennessee at Chattanooga Bonjour! I'm still a HP calculatrice fanatic Veli-Pekka PS: Your face will never fade of our v'ger's memory... That's why the stock market is in trouble...Not because of the terrorist attack...Alot of companies have been running on a thin profit margin... Terrorist attack was an excuse for alot of companies...The days the newspapers that HP and alot of big companies in Silicon Valley were having a hard time attracting people for jobs.... Jas /(&%#!ó&% I took for real... PS: You ASSUMEable rref-er to: ...continue as a good business for HP for a long time. BUT I'm still not laughing? Calculators. in calculator Oh, that's Great News! Aside from Vger's firmware, I don't like anything made by ACO. Well, perhaps I do like a couple of things, but I mean that the level reached at Corvallis has not been improved at all. I know they were wizards, but I'm sure it could happen again - after all, they are still alive, I hope! ;-) I hope HP can find the right place and the right people again for the real 48's successor. Please, no hurries! By the way, why has the new HP-12C version (that with one CR2032 batt) engraved the word Agilent on its CPU? Bye. - Well, perhaps at Corvallis sure it could I suspect that's in the natural order of things. When they designed the 48SX they were doing something new. The features came from the designer's imaginations. Probably no-one else knew eough about the possibilities to interfere. But when they were working on the 48GX the marketers and executives already had a working model and had already probably heard a million ideas and probably all had their favorites and did what they could to see that they were implemented. The designers must have had less control with that never having been stated. With the 49G they also had some TI successes to compete with and that influenced the list of features, too. Less and less control by the designers. I'm just guessing at all of this. I have no slightest idea what went on at HP. But I've led programming projects that were totally new ideas and no-one really understood the possibilities and I know how I got left alone. If I wanted a suggestion I had to ask for it. Then, doing the second version of those same projects, everyone had Some I couldn't. The second version might have been more useful and more tailored to the user's needs, but it was always less graceful, more confused, less coherent and more trouble to maintain. It's just how things work in business. The designer has a lot more ability to express his own ideas in his own way in the first edition of something very new than at any other time. Of course business has developed a partial cure for the designer's imagination in the first edition. It's called a prototype. :) Barry Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! or department is going to handle calcs. I bet he chokes... Steve Sousa As there is so much talk at the moment about new directions I'd like to ask: Just what is the perfect calculator each of us expects? If somebody uses this for market research then great I'll have a replacement for my 49 in a few years. If you assume it's going to be 2-3 years before a new calculator gets to the market we can assume that the PDA's will by then be fully functional windows devices. You'll able to run apps lick Mathcad, Maple etc with the only restrictions being screen real estate and hardware interface (touch screen limited keys. Any new calculator would have to compete with these and be sufficiently different in functionality to compete. So here is my stab at the basics: Size: Pocketable, smaller than HP49, size of HP42 if possible. The 48/49's are to big to be carried anywhere in your pocket. Whats acchievable will depend on interface and screen. One option could be pull out or flip out screen that retracted displays single line of result like a cheap calculator. Power: Uses standard batteries say 2xAAA. Batteries life of 2 months minimum. Screen: HP49 seems reasonable but higher resolution. 2 colour to keep cost and power down. User Interface: Has to use a keyboard for rapid input of calcs. RPN of course but Algebraic will be needed since RPN will have even less of a profile than now. 48 and 49 seem to have it about right for an advanced calculator. You can't get away from the need for a numeric keypad plus extra's for command functions, advanced features and menu. Touch screen just won't cut it as I don't want to stop to pull out a stylus in the middle of a calc. Memory: 1.5 Mb in the 49 seems to be heaps. With memory so cheap just give it access to memory flash cards or a heap of internal memory. CPU and OS Can't comment except it should be capable of emulating the HP48/49 functionality with improved speed. A dream would be to have the capability to run the same apps as your Desktop unit but the size and display of a calculator unit that I'm thinking of would make interacting with an App thats designed for a 15 and a mouse very arkward. Cost of calculator would be much greater. External I/O USB would seem to be the most common cable connection with plenty of speed for a calculator. Some kind of cable-less connection would be nice. X 2*AA, can be operated on NiMH cells, too. Maybe a shrunken Xpander? Raymond gets to the functional windows the only (touch screen these and be I have Derive, Mathcad and Matlab for my HP 200lx. The version of Derive I have was designed with the lx in mind. I'm not sure about the others but they work just fine. I don't have any need for these and my math is limited so I can't judge how they compare to the HP49. But they are certainly available in an HP49 size package with a screen about 3 times the size of the 49 screen and a QWERTY keyboard with a numeric keypad. (too small for touch typing). And good old HP sturdiness and reliability. The 200lx is almost exactly the same size as the 49G. It will fit (snugly) in the HP48 soft case. It's a PC that uses 2 AA batteries and gets about 40 hours from them and weighs 11 ounces including batteries. Rechargebles are fine. There is a recharger built in. It only knows how to charge standard Nicads but there is free software downloadble to control the charging in various ways. It can recharge the 1600 mah NIMH just fine. It also has Lotus 123 version 2.4 (complete) in rom, along with a lot of PDA apps, more powerful ones than are available in newer PDAs. Dos 5.0 is in ROM. Also Quicken, CC:Mail and an HP bussiness calculator (which talks to Lotus). Several full sets of internet software are available. Some free, some not. Several cards for wireless access are avaliable, as are modem cards. It has infra-red. A group of users are now looking into the possibity of Bluetooth. The power supplied to the PCMCIA port is limited so this may or may not work. With a Parallel port PCMCIA card it works fine with a Zip drive. It also runs Microsoft Flight Simulator 4.0, Word Perfect 5.1, dBase 3+, Paradox, most older compilers of most languages and a world of commercial games. All that and it fit's in my pocket. It also has a PCMCIA slot. I have a 160 meg flash card. It's my A: drive. They don't make them anymore but they're available all over the place and they supply seems to be increasing as time goes by. Barry Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! it sounds great! now, if i could put my maple7 (o mathematica) in it... may be, the next HP49G will come with a crusoe chip :) oh yeah, and running linux too BTW: HP49G still rules!!!!!!!!! when you take the thought of others, reality becomes ready made O. y Gasset to I can easily fit a HP49G in the pocket inside my jacket. be And it'll be cheap quality too. Fold lines destroy cables. Duracell AA MN1500 are 2450 mAh, so two months on two of these will allow your device to use 116 mW @ 5 volts (continous use; 106 hours a month). Built-in Lithium Ion will be better though, both for the environment and for your wallet. power It'll have to be a little larger, so you won't have to use a magnifying glass to see on it. Else you could use a video camera display - 2 & maybe 400x300 pixels. Yes, but with fewer mAh's than NiCd. Lithium Ion does have more advantages too. You seem to have big pockets;-) A 15C or 42S has the maximum weight I want to carry, aside from their nicer form factor. result Maybe. But the 28 (Clamshell) series use kind of flip where only a minimum of torsion happens to the contact stripe. Never heard of an 28 with bad left-hand keyboard;-) Hmm...do we end up with kinda Turbo-28SX? Raymond The weather in Oz is to good to be wearing jackets. Even in winter only wear them on bad days. :) I want something for a shirt pocket, HP49 is to big. Be thankfull I haven't asked for a Calc suitable for the back pocket of pants when wearing a T-shirt, flexible so you can sit on it. I'm looking for a convenient advaced calculator not a PDA with calculator functions. are result for 1. I want a calculator that executes internal instructions as fact as compiled code on a Pentium III and executed user programs at least as fast ab VB p-code. 2. I want the calculator to be able to be programmed with languages from: HP-67 HP-41 HP-48 HP-49 and VB i.e. backward compatible calculator. 3. It needs to hold at least 1 gig of ram and be able to be attached to a portable IDE hard drive and a CD-ROM 4. 256 color screen, minimum res 1024x768 5. Intelligent, LCD augmented keyboard. 6. Open source OS 7. Runs 10 hours without back lite on. 8. The size of an HP-49 when closed but opens book style like an HP-28S boxes. 11. Flashable ROM and running an upgradable hardware chip. 12. 6 AA lithium batteries or rechargable nickle metal hydrid batteries as used in the RC plane world. All other features are open to negotiation. :-) Jim Klein -- Thierry Morissette r2ujut8do3175i6v3ps77jbbgdvscjmuue@4ax.com... Good start, but can it be done? I would be satisfied with a 41/49 combination. There are 41 functionalities that SHOULD be implemented (stopwatch, ASCII files, and then some). This is beginning to sound more and more like an HP-41 with HP-IL ... Why the color? I'm still trying to think of an use for color on a calculator (Maybe negative numbers in red?) Could you elaborate (a little drawing wouldn't hurt)? Dangerous! This might mean a different calc for everybody, and we might not be able to share programs. 1 gig or RAM, 256 colors, minimum 1024*768, as fast as a Pentium III, and lasting 10 hours with the backlight on? The calc may be portable, but the battery sure won't! OK ... I believe you can have 8. or 9., but not both! I'm with you on that one! That too! How about both, just like the 41? You mean that the 48/49 don't have ASCII files capabilities? Is it better for you to manually set pointers and get records instead of just using a string? (Which can be used as an ascii file much easier?) HP-IL is OK, but I don't mind if it is USB or something else. I think it is the availability of many devices that makes HP-IL so attractive. What if we had USB or simple serial devices? Nop! Graph many curves with different colors. Very good when graphing 10 curves simoultaneously. He he, so we would be asked if we have a driving licence for a track, when we want to buy the next calc. ;-) Thierry Morissette functionalities It has ASCII capabilities, and it would be possible (and has probably been done many times) to emulate the 41 behaviour in that matter. But why not as a part of the OS? I had, in that glorious time, created a small program (120 BYTES) to print a justified list of names and phone numbers that I could distribute to members of my congregation. They loved to have it in such a small, practical size, and I did not have to justify each line: the program did it itself, and it was FAST! For that kind of simple record-keeping (it was not my only use of it, just the most useful of all), the 41 was number one! I usually carry mine in my left-forward pants pocket, upside-down so to lessen exposure of the serial socket -- this works in every pair of pants that I own, including my NJROTC uniform. I don't think I'm large enough to make effects here =) This porting of the calculator seems to work well; I take it everywhere without problems. (snip my snide remark about easily-broken screens. sorry) ==== (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/bernard.parisse/english.html) at hpcalc.org, I could not find any link there to HP France. I tried going to HPs French site but, not speaking french, did not manage to get very far. Could you please give me a more specific address? -- Colin Croft Old mathematicians never die; they just lose some of their functions. ====================================== Applications in Mathematics ccroft@iinet.net.au http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/ ====================================== ==== http://www.hp.com/calculators/france/prod/casenglish.zip Hope that helps. Sincerely, Jason ==== http://www.hp.com/calculators/france/ http://www.hp.com/calculators/france/prod40.html#05 but there are only French manuals... You can find the manuals for the HP40G in French, or for the HP49 in English there: http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~degraeve/ Hope that helps ==== the other language versions may be useful for the guy in Europe who had contacted me to see if I knew where to find the CAS manual for him and his friends. How come they (so he says) don't supply the manual with the HP40G in Europe? I would have thought that it was quite necessary to put it mildly! -- Colin Croft Old mathematicians never die; they just lose some of their functions. ====================================== Applications in Mathematics ccroft@iinet.net.au http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/ ====================================== ==== My homepage is not maintainted at perso.wanadoo.fr, the maintained one is www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~parisse/english.html ==== is there a chance to access the CPU speed by using a little program in UsrRPL or SysRPL. I would like to make some experiments, where I need direkt access to the CPU-speed. The access via ON-hold D is not sufficient for my requirements. Heiko ==== Don't be afraid about Unix installation. If I can do it, then anyone can. The Unix distributions nowadays are really very easy. Not to speak about the already installed MacOS X, which *has* the IDIOT type of interface that you talked about. And what an interface! Looks great! Greetings, Nick. ==== Well, Thomas, even the classic MacOS isn't totally automatically installed. You have to answer some questions. But my fears about unix installations just disappeared when I tried to install Solaris on a PC. It wasn't difficult at all. And just worked right. I guess that the difficult installation of unix is more remembering what it used to be than real difficulty. Grretings, nick. ==== That is exactly my point. It is Windows that has been accused of monopoly. Office still has viable competition. I can't see how you eliminate Windows monopoly. You just raised interesting argument. Are you suggesting that we should split evil TI for it's monopolistic practices int the calculator area, where they seem to own more and more of the market due to their marketing strategy over supposedly better competition of HP ? :-) It doesn't work this way. The file format of the document is not required to be public domain and is not required to be guaranteed in the future. Threfore all parties are guilty of using their own, non published formats that do change with application upgrades. You cannot pick just Microsoft and blame them for doing what everybody else is doing. But even common format does not eliminate practical monopoly. Images are typically stored in public domain formats of TIFF, JPEG, GIF etc. But Adobe with it's Photoshop has practically eliminated all other competition for professionals. There are some toys for amatours, don't even mention them :-) You are mistaken. What is better is a matter of opinion. What is sold on the market is mainly Microsoft Office :-) and can be measured in a real statistics. Generally it is assumed, that better product wins over worse, and better here is defined in economical-technical relationship, not purely technological marvel but expensive. I cannot use Mac. Many of the applications I use are not available Windows that crash on me much more rarely than Sun Unix at work. Nooo. Evil Microsoft help Mac to be better ?!?! ;-) But you see, World Standard CAD is not there. I'm sure, there are many such programs that you can't get for Mac and almost 99.99% Mac applications are now available for Windows or in fact were originally written for Windows. You might not need them today so you think you have a good computer. But when you will find out, that you need software not available for Mac then you will understand, what I meant by sacrifice :-) Last time I've checked it was Windows who first come out with preemptive multitasking on the market. Mac was second. Same with multiple CPU support. It was used toward Mac new versions of OS that suppose to be as good as new versions of Windows. Jack <3C20DE69.46A4A85@home.com> <3C20EBF5.AF48E490@wildopensource.com> <3C21464A.674C212F@home.com> <3C222F7C.B2DB9788@wildopensource.com> <3C2243F9.266620D9@home.com> <9vthjf$nts$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi> <3C22BF74.163FB503@home.com> <3C34D460.4E2B484D@home.com> <3C36381D.4B3260DF@home.com> <3C387425.4AB765CD@home.com> ==== GIF is not public domain, some company (IIRC IBM) holds a patent on the used compression technology. Maybe you should fire your sysadmin. Solaris is considered even more crashes throughout 3 years of use. And where do you think do these ideas come from? AFAIK the very first Unix had a preemptive multitasking kernel (else it wouldn't be Unix). In the meantime Mac OS has become a true Unix flavour system. Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them. ==== Nooo! What about Mathematica?! :-) It tries to do everything (scriptable Java interface, XML/MathML, and of course the usual CAS stuff), and will no doubt continue to improve in that regard. Bhuvanesh. ==== It is in a sense, that it's file format is widely published and available for other applications to use. I think, the only part of GIF that is patented is LZW compression algorithm used by GIF, which initially was thought by Compuserve as a public domain and later created all the GIF controversy when UNISYS decided to take advantage of it. The network was setup by Sun. It would be difficult to fire Sun :-) Considered is a key word here. What is considered does not reflect the truth necessarily. Solaris crashing once per couple of months is considered stable. My Windows did not crash for the last year although working time was probably similar due to the fact, that one uses home computer generally less at home than at work so clearly Windows instability is for me a street hype and myth. As of firing sysadmin, it would be a little difficult to fire such people in a 300,000 employee + company by me. It is not a single person, but entire department that heavily tests hardware and software before even committing change to the production floor :-) Did I said that Unix didn't have it ? You must missed something. I said Mac OS did not have it till very late years after Windows. Really ? Are you claiming, that Mac OS is in fact Unix ? How come then any of the Unix applications available for Solaris DO NOT RUN on Mac ? Jack <3C20DE69.46A4A85@home.com> <3C20EBF5.AF48E490@wildopensource.com> <3C21464A.674C212F@home.com> <3C222F7C.B2DB9788@wildopensource.com> <3C2243F9.266620D9@home.com> <9vthjf$nts$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi> <3C22BF74.163FB503@home.com> <3C34D460.4E2B484D@home.com> <3C36381D.4B3260DF@home.com> <3C387425.4AB765CD@home.com> <3C38778E.E620FC5@iname.com> <3C38972F.33A44C00@home.com> ==== I am referring to the *fact* that Mac OS X (the earlier versions don't) has a Unix kernel. You'd most likely only need to recompile your programs on Mac OS to make them work. (Granted, Unix is not exactly the same everywhere, so your programs might be using Solaris-only features.) Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them. ==== I know some people who do in fact prefer to have tasks separated into multiple applications. For example some programmers prefer separate compiler, linker and debugger. But it is sufficient to go to nearby software store to find out that the opposite trend is in fact the mainstream. For example Visual Basic, Visual C++, Borland Delphi, Borland C++ Builder etc. all offer at least all those applications combined into the common graphical interface that looks to the user as a single application. Those who prefer to use them separately are in fact left to run DOS style command interface. They of course consider theselves GURUS but it rarely makes them more effective :-) Most of the CAD/CAM/CAE applications are evolving int othe entire modeling/drafting/analysis/manufacturing packages. Graphics packages are now evolving into the single application etc. Almost every type of software is now evolving into the huge packages capable of doing every little need that every user might have. It doesn't matter that the underlying technology is separated into the blocks of separate code. The reason of it is more of a manufacturing and code maintenance. It is obviously not the customer' demand. Jack ==== You must be kidding. I can't recompile code that I don't have and own. Don't even compare amount of applications available for Windows and for Mac even with Unix kernel. IMHO Unix kernel only proof how desperate Mac become. Jack ==== Yikes! Been playing with buggy svgalib programs? I think that Unix is almost entirely outside Jack's scope. ==== I own a HP48G and I have a problem I need to solve. I have 3 equations with 3 variable, how do I punch it into the calculator to get the results of the 3 variables? I have looked and I have looked in the manual, but I cannot seem to find it. Can anyone here help me, PLEASE????? Pernille ==== with the The keywords should be solve linear equation matrix. To solve linear equations you simply divide two matrizes. HP48G is well documented, you should find that. or have a look/search on www.hpcalc.org ..Heiko ==== Which is the best way to load computer written files into the calculator and how to watch them later? How can i create grob pictures? Grettings Richard ==== ==== But seriously. Of course making a new company is not an easy thing, but knowing what excellent talents there are out there, I would find it a pity if all those invented things would remain unknown to the wide mass. You already have a customer. I order right now a calc and you can tell me what it costs when it is ready. Come on guys, enforce the revolution! Greetings, Nick. P.S. Rcobo has great knowledge about electronic devices. Wouldn't you take him in your team in Denmark? A multinational multitalented crew would be marvelous. ==== As much as I would like to include you all in this adventure, time must tell. The deal is that I and a couple of my friends/colleagues have started a business now, and we are in full development. We do have the knowledge in all areas necessary, so I don't think it'll be much of a problem at first. If and when production starts, and the product line needs to be further developed, we maybe aren't able to manage it ourselves. We are three EE's, one datamatician and one CNC custom tools designer on the side. This means that we are highly qualified in working with all aspects of hardware and software development. This started out as an idea, but turned into a company. ==== I really need to work with exal but i don't know why I can't put the program in my calculator. I have a HP48Gx. I've placed the program in my library but then the exal don't run. I would like that someone could help me to solve this problem. may someone send me information about the program, the file or instructions or how I can start the exal. ==== Another Xpander has shown up on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1318175911 Roger == If the key handling routines are ML and *very* fast, you can use =POPKEY or =Debounce. Thomas -- Hmm, I don't know if one could notice the speed difference. Perhaps a little bit slower but really only a little bit. Sorry that I can't help you with SysRPL and ML. Exactly, although only XYGROBDISP is used, no freezing. Sorry, but I do not know which display status flag you're talking about. Anyway, the problem has nothing to do with the TurnOff-command. Already the simple program ; does not refresch the display if stored in STARTOFF. not turned off the calculator by hand ... you could use the display status flag ClrDAsOK... This signals that the whole DA (Display Area) has to be redrawn. This one should not be fixed! I'm gonna use this as an identification feature. So if someone NOT familiar with the calc forever!!!! ==== Is this a bug or a feature: pressing Backspace in the Matrix Writer causes an item to be dropped from the outside stack. I was really surprised when I left the Matrix Writer and some items from the stack were lost. BTW: pressing left-shift + backspace makes the current matrix element zero. Are there any more hidden features? ==== Haa! This one should be the other way around! A simple BS to drop an element and the DEL to DROP a stack element... . ==== . ==== There are these books - Science and Engineering Mathematics with the HP 49 G - Volume 1 and 2 by Gilberto Urroz that you can find in www.greatunpublished.com I don't own a 49, neither those books. But I've heard a lot about them, and they seem to be good. ==== Hmm. Of course ClrDAsOK itself is *not* a DA flag;-) Instead, it's a word that clears the OK status of the DA1, DA2a, DA2b, and DA3 display status flags... ==== My Hp shows me for differential sin(x)=0 and not cos(x), which mode is wrong?? ==== Thomas Kremer schrieb: Check your VX setting (or execute X STOVX). If VX is something else than X, then SIN(X) is a constant and therefore its derivative is 0. -- ==== I'm not talking about converting an existing ROM over to reference counting. Or, for that matter, even writing a new HP49 ROM. My main question was would it be possible to implement RPL style semantics atop a reference counting garbage collector. I know that in Lisp, it's pretty easy to get circular references in lists, and couldn't come up with a similar case in RPL. They did well not to. http://www.mschaef.com ==== .0 ==== It is located at address #00101h and is two nibbles wide You can PEEK at that address or, you can use this code. Assemble it with Jazz :: CODE GOSBVL =SAVPTR D0=(5) #101 A=0 A A=DAT0 B GOVLNG =PUSH#ALOOP ENDCODE UNCOERCE ; -- : Try a search at http://www.hpcalc.org/. James ==== ==== There are some packagaes on hpcalc.org that do just that. Just out of curiosity, why? Does the 17BII lack something you need? I was considering augmenting my 48GX with a 17 to get the cleaner interface. http://www.mschaef.com ==== I haven't touched my 49G for a long time. The user key assignments I had seem to have disappeared, and I can't find nor remember how I did them! I wish to switch the functions MTH and SYMB. Someone once told me it had to do with using a minus sign in front of the key designations. If someone would be so kind as to describe the process to me, ==== For key assignments, please take a look into the user manual;-) The program you mean is KEYMAN (or alike) Both available on www.hpcalc.org ==== None of them, it must in the source from which the informboxes are called. (via xNAME or NULLNAME) Read http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=8vc6gs%24p9pg%241%40reader4.wxs.n l from Pieter, it explains it in detail. So after you have read the post from Pieter it is obviously that ASSEMBLE =PTR39251 EQU #39251 RPL must be placed in start.s in his example. Then the use of PTR39251 works. Don't forget the ' before your messagehandler! DidnÇt know that, thanks for the info. ==== : Even pointers from 25EC to B3C7 seems to be unsupported but stable (always JYA docet) o /-----------------------/ ==== I have a remote control program that based on some other programs. The part of the keyboard manager is mine, and I believe that there is room for improvement. The problem is the slowness, from the moment that the ENTER key is pressed until the 3 characters being transmitted (to increase the reliability in the IR) it takes nearly 1 second. I would appreciate it if you could give me another alternative or tips to improve the task: %%HP: T(3)A(D)F(.); @ With 10 minutes auto power-off. @ [DEL] key = Esc. @ [ON] key stop the program; [Backspace] key to OFF the calculator. @ The program based on dterm program. @ [ENTER] key for confirmation. << GROB 18 10 FFFF30FFFF30FFFF30FFFF30FFFF30FFFF30FFFF30FFFF30FFFF30FFFF30 -> black << 89 1 0 0 rc48.gro RCLF 0 -> i j k c menu flags tmp inln << CLLCD { IR { } { } { } { } WIRE } TMENU [IR] or [WIRE] ? 1 DISP -1 WAIT @ select IR-control or WIRE-control. IF 11.1 SAME THEN -33 SF ELSE -33 CF END @ IR-control ELSE WIRE-control. 2400 BAUD CLLCD menu PICT STO { # 0d # 0d } PVIEW { # 89d # 1d } PICT OVER black GXOR OPENIO TICKS 'tmp' STO IFERR WHILE 1 REPEAT BUFLEN DROP DUP IF THEN TICKS 'tmp' STO SRECV DROP 'inln' SWAP STO+ ELSE DROP inln DUP DUP SIZE SWAP DUP 13 CHR 10 CHR + POS DUP @ crlf. IF THEN SWAP OVER 1 - 1 SWAP SUB PICT { # 0d # 59d } { # 130d # 63d } SUB @ scroll. PICT { # 0d # 59d } ROT GXOR 1 ->GROB PICT { # 0d # 59d } ROT GXOR 2 + SWAP SUB 'inln' STO ELSE DROP DROP DROP DROP END IF KEY THEN TICKS 'tmp' STO @ for IR control. 'k' STO k 55 == IF THEN OFF OPENIO TICKS 'tmp' STO ELSE k 36 == k 34 == OR k 25 == OR k 35 == OR IF THEN @ x position: 1; 23; 45; 67; 89; 111. @ y position: 1; 16; 31; 46. CASE k 36 == i 90 < AND THEN i 22 + 'i' STO END k 34 == i 22 > AND j 32 < AND THEN i 22 - 'i' STO END @ without [ENTER] key. k 34 == i 66 > AND j 46 == AND THEN i 22 - 'i' STO END k 25 == j 15 > AND THEN j 15 - 'j' STO END k 35 == j 17 < AND THEN j 15 + 'j' STO END @ without [ENTER] key. k 35 == j 32 < AND i 44 > AND THEN j 15 + 'j' STO END END i R->B j R->B 2 ->LIST PICT OVER black GXOR PICT ROT black GXOR ELSE k 51 == IF THEN @ [ENTER] key for confirmation. j 1 == IF THEN CASE i 1 == THEN 21 'k' STO END i 23 == THEN 22 'k' STO END i 45 == THEN 23 'k' STO END i 67 == THEN 24 'k' STO END i 89 == THEN 25 'k' STO END i 111 == THEN 26 'k' STO END END END j 16 == IF THEN CASE i 1 == THEN 31 'k' STO END i 23 == THEN 32 'k' STO END i 45 == THEN 33 'k' STO END i 67 == THEN 34 'k' STO END i 89 == THEN 35 'k' STO END i 111 == THEN 36 'k' STO END END END j 31 == IF THEN CASE i 1 == THEN 41 'k' STO END i 23 == THEN 42 'k' STO END i 45 == THEN 43 'k' STO END i 67 == THEN 44 'k' STO END i 89 == THEN 45 'k' STO END i 111 == THEN 46 'k' STO END END END j 46 == IF THEN CASE i 45 == THEN 52 'k' STO END i 67 == THEN 53 'k' STO END i 89 == THEN 54 'k' STO END @ Esc. i 111 == THEN CLOSEIO OFF 89 'i' STO 1 'j' STO END @ off. END END END @ keyboard table: AAABBBCCCDDDEEEFFF GGGHHHIIIJJJKKKLLL NNNOOOPPPQQQRRR SSSTTTUUUVVVWWWXXX YYYZZZ 777888999/// 444555666*** 111222333--- 000... +++ k 3 * DUP 2 + SUB IF XMIT NOT THEN END END END END END TICKS tmp - B->R 8192 / 600 >= @ after 10 minutes(600 seconds). IF THEN OFF OPENIO TICKS 'tmp' STO END END THEN flags STOF 9600 BAUD -33 CF 2 MENU CLOSEIO KILL @ Error: [ON] key trap. END >> >> >> Tal ==== I haven't analized your program, but looking at it, it seems well structured. However, you make intensive use of global variables, this slows down running time. Try to use local variables whenever possible. Stack handling only would be great, but it's harder to do . ==== I think I've seen this same problem in ver 1.10 where I did not see the problem in 1.18? ==== I am looking for an HP48G that is disfunctional but has a good LCD. If anyone has an broken calc due to ram upgrade gone sour, then I would purchase it for a reduced price as long as the LCD is good. I would also like to know if anyone has any experiences replacing a broken LCD on HP48G/GX. Is this more difficult to do than ram upgrade modification ? ==== You may go that route if you find a cheap enough 48 to work with. However Hp will still service your unit for a flat fee of $45. in the USA. You send it to their Hp repair and they will just send you a new or refurbished Hp48G+ if you have a 48G or G+. For a 48GX the repair might be higher. Ph#:970-392-1001 ext: 0 Their address is: Hp Service Center 1030 NE Circle Blvd. Bld#11 Corvallis, OR 97330 ==== I think my HP48 GX, complete with all of the cards I've purchased for it for use in my engineering work, is the greatest thing ever. With the demise of the HP calculator line and the use of handhelds on the rise, it only makes sense to create a full-featured emulator for Palm OS. While I already utilize an RPN pop-up calculator on my Visor, the functionality of the HP 48 is sorely missed. The Palm platform could offer a great deal of benefits to the current HP 48 user -- an infrared port, a serial port, a faster processor, larger screen with superior resolution complete with color, and, in the case of the Visor, an expansion slot where HP ROM cards could be used. Finally, it would allow those of us who would like to retain the HP's quality in an all-in-one handheld option. I couldn't help but notice that EMU48, an excellent HP 48 emulator for the Windows Platform, comes complete with source code (in C++, I believe). Has anyone considered porting it to Palm OS? Has it already been done, and if so, where can I find it? ==== I would know how to read and write in port 1 or 2 of the HP49G with the ASM langage ? ==== You can access any flash banks with ACCESSBankX, where X is 0 to 15. IIRC 8 to 15 are user banks (aka port 2). If you set P=0 before calling these routines, they'll switch to the bank; if you set P=1, they'll switch back. You can access the bank in memory at #40000h-#7FFFFh. For port 1 there are ACCESSERAM1 and ACCESSERAM2, I don't know about these but I suppose it's the same. Writing is a bit more difficult, especially for the flash ROM... Thomas ==== who can show me the equation where I can get all solution of an root funktion. real and irreal regeons for exampel 5 th root -31 greetings Reiner ==== Damit du alle L232sungen bekommst, musst du den komplexen Modus anschalten, am einfachsten mit LS&TOOL (Blaue Shift-Taste gedr237ckt halten und TOOL dr237cken). Ein C (statt R) im Header zeigt den komplexen Modus an. Du kannst die Gleichung mit SOLVE aufl232sen: Algebraischer Modus: SOLVE('X^5=-31',X) RPN Modus: X 5 ^ -31 = X SOLVE Auf meinem Rechner (1.19-6) ergibt das f237nf L232sungen. ==== If the definition of Y1(X) is 5 + X^2, alors trying to solve Y1(X) is similar. Do not worry about what is displayed ==== 1) I know that the last ROM revision for the 48gx is R. The one i found is a P. There is something i should know about the differences between P and R ? -- on www.hpcalc.org should be a description of the differences between the ROM revisions. The 'P' should have the newer GX display with better contrast, not the SX display. The latest built 'R' models from China have a different (better) display again. at least the port STO bug has been fixed. But more info will be on hpcalc.org;-) I see no problem there. If it's new (or unused), and the batts were outside the calc, there should be no problem. The only thing I noticed on my very first SX (Serial # 3003A00131) is that the rubber feet are slowly melting... But the keys are still very good. Chances are good that you won't use your SX again, ==== Has anyone thought of basing new hardware on the old hardware? A big part of why I like HP is the keys. What if you took a 48GX and used only the keypad, interfacing that to a target board, perhaps StrongARM based? You could write or find a Saturn emulator and then use the 48GX ROM image as a PC emulator does. You would need to convert keypresses into whatever input the ROM expects and also need to interface the display output to a new LCD. This all sounds difficult but I think it is still easier than developing a whole new code base for a calculator. A bonus is that a modern development board probably already has heaps of RAM (by calculator standards), serial port and flexible power requirements, perhaps even flash memory, USB and a PCMCIA or CF card interface. I'd really like a calculator with rechargable batteries that sat in a cradle like a Pocket PC, for syncing and for recharging. Perhaps there are better choices for the target hardware as far as power conservation go, but a LiIon battery should be able to power a device without a color LCD for a long time. == Whats the difference between 1.18 official ROM and 1.19 Beta ROM??? ==== Read this to see all the additions and bug fixes since 1.18. There are substantial improvements from the 1.18 to the most recent 1.19-6 beta ROM, especially when it comes to the CAS and SysRPL programming. http://www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/49.html ==== ==== Run CASCFG before EVALuating the limit. The flag setup on EMU48 is: { #11800B8285010FF0h #0h #801000000A028088h #0h } which should be the default one. ==== you as my professor know that I'm not a newbee anymore :-) Of course, the first I tried long ago was to fix it ClrDAsOK. That doesn't help at all since, I guess, the ROM encapsulates the STARTOFF-program in a very specific way, with its own screen handling. Unfortunately, even NOSY is unable to dig deep enough in the ROM to discover where the STARTOFF program is handled :-) The problem remains. Even the banal program does not refresch the display if stored in STARTOFF. ==== Try SetDAsBad instead (ClrDAsOK only changes the Valid, Temp and NoCh flags). If that doesn't work it's a flaw in the STARTOFF handling -- I'd suspect it anyway, normally your sample doesn't need the Clr..., SysDisplay in the ParOuterLoop calls it just after restoring the display (so any program starts w/ the display area not OK). -- http://mein.hamburg.de/homepage/grendel ==== So far I've been looking into STARTUP, so of course I didn't see any problems :) I don't think there's any flaws in the way STARTOFF works. STARTOFF will be called if it exists instead of TurnOff after the idle time have reached a specified time (usually 5 minutes). STARTOFF will be called by GETKEY* inside GetKeyOb. Until you've pressed a key the display will not be refreshed as you're still inside GetKeyOb. For memory, the System Loop is like this: BEGIN AtUserStack ( signal a valid user stack; this word must be here at the top of the loop to insure non-standard entrances via restartol are considered ) SysMenuCheck ( do menu maintenance ) SysDisplay ( do the system display ) GetKeyOb ( wait for a key and convert it to a key object ) ERRSET ( prepare to trap key object evaluation errors ) DoKeyOb ( try to do the key object ) ERRTRAP ( if DoKeyOb errors... ) SysErrorTrap ( ...then clean up and continue ) AGAIN As you can see, you will never reach the SysDisplay until you exit GetKeyOb. And in the case of STARTOFF, you are NOT exiting it. It would be the same with a user alarm... The best way you can do, to refresh the screen, and that will be done ONLY once a key have been pressed, is by calling SetDA1Bad, SetDA2aBad, SetDA2bBad, SetDA3Bad at the end of STARTOFF which will force the system to redisplay the screen as soon as SysDisplay is called. If you know which area you are modifying, then call just the area that you want to update. If you want the screen to be redisplayed before a key is pressed, then manually call SysDisplay (but you will have to be careful, as it may not be enough inside a ParOuterLoop) SetDAsBad is not supported and is located in an area that can move easily. .. ==== 0posting.google.com&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26group%3Dcomp.sys.hp48 made me try such summations as SUM(n=0,2,SUM(m=0,n,a(m+1)*b(n-m+1))) where the list {2 4 0} is stored in variable a and the list {1 5 0} is stored in variable b. The HP49G can use indices for retrieving list or array elements, like a(1), a(2) etc. It does this slow, but it does it. But the sum above, doesn't get completely evaluated. You get an expression: 2.*b(n+1.)+4.*b(n-1.+1.)+.... As you can see, the elements of a for which the index of summation runs from m=0 to n, could be retrieved from the list a. But the elements of b, for which the index of summation contains n, whose value comes from the outer sum, couldn't be retrieved. At first I thought that the problem was, that the values of the index n, which runs at the outer sum, can't be used for the inner sum. But this can't be right. The sum: SUM(n=0,2,SUM(m=0,n,(m+1)*(n-m+1))) gets evaluated without problems. (Though very slow) Could it be that the outer index n can't be used as an argument of a function in the inner sum? Well, storing for example << -> m << m 1 + >> in a, and << -> n << n 2 >> in b, and then evaluating SUM(n=0,2,SUM(m=0,n,a(m+1)*b(n-m+1))) also works. When a and b are defined using algebraic objects, as in << -> n 'n+1' >> and << ->n 'n^2' >> the evaluation of SUM(n=0,2,SUM(m=0,n,a(m+1)*b(n-m+1))) also works. This shows that the value of the summation variable n of the outer sum is correctly retrieved in the inner sum. What is the problem then, when a and b contain lists and in the summation we access the list elements through indices like a(m) etc? Can anybody figure this out? ==== I am discovering that the HP has a bit more numerical functionality than the TI83. But I am wondering how the HP (like a 48g or 49g) compare to the TI92+? Specifically, I wonder if there is anyone who has used both a TI92 and a HP48 or 49, using both to almost their full capabilities? If so I wonder about these things: 1. A limitation of TI83 that bugs me is that I can't define a function to call a program for its evaluation. Say I want to evaluate some series to N terms. On TI83 I must write a program to generate a list of coefficients (say its L1) and powers of X (L2), then I can define a function like Y1=sum(L1*X^L2) This works, but it is clumsy. I want to be able to write a program which returns the Y-variable after doing its thing. 2. Also, for series, I wish I could do something like I can do in Mathematica: CoefficientsFunction[i_]= PowersFunction[i_]= NumTerms= Y1[x_]=Sum[ CoefficientsFunction[i] x^PowersFunction[i], {i,0,NumTerms}] I suspect I could do this on a TI92, but not sure. How about a HP? 3. Piecewise linear and nonlinear function definitions? I can do it on TI83 using logical tests like this: Y1=(X<0)X^3+(X>=0)X generates a cubic joined to a line at X=0. Any more elegant ways on TI92 or HP? Also, the TI then is limited to a value of zero when no tests evaluate to 1, but if you have parts of the function that are undefined, you can't really represent this. 4. Differential equations: Out of time. -- _____________________ As you say, the problem with multiplying by the domain is that the function goes to zero outside the domain, causing problems with vertical lines joining ends of functions to the next function or to the x axis. For a function like yours where the total function is continuous this is not a problem but for non-continuous functions it is. A better way is to divide by the domain. This means that the function is undefined outside the domain and not graphed at all. The only drawback is that you have to do each section as a separate function. eg. Y1=X^3/(X<0) Y2=X/(X>=0) I would imagine that this would work on a TI too. ====================================== Applications in Mathematics ccroft@iinet.net.au http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/ ====================================== Many possible ways to do that on the HP49G: You could define: L1(n)=n/n! (Takes n, returns coefficient) L2(n)=n-1 (Takes n, returns power ) Y1(N,var)= sum(n=0.,N,L1(n)*var^(L2(n))) This is a bit slow when it executes. Y1 could also be defined as: << -> N var << 0 0 N FOR n n L1 var n L2 ^ * + NEXT >> which is much faster when it executes. Using the same definitions as in (1) with some little differences: CoefficientsFunction(n)=n/n! (Remains the same) PowersFunction(n)=n-1 (Remains the same) Store a number in N. Y1(var)= sum(n=0.,N,CoefficientsFunction(n)*var^(PowersFunction(n))) (No N argument in definition) This is also a bit slow when it executes. Alternatively you can define Y1 as: << -> var << 0 0 N FOR n n CoefficientsFunction var n PowersFunction ^ * + NEXT >> For the HP49G: First, you can include IFTE in algebraic objects. The piecewise definition would then be: Y1(X)=IFTE(X<0.,X^3,X) IFTE can also be nested in algebraics: Y1(X)=IFTE(X<-1.,X^2,IFTE(X>=-1. AND X<1.,-X^2,3*X)) The definition Y1=(X<0)*X^3+(X>=0)*X is also possible on the HP49G. The comparison X<0 is simply evaluated to 1 (true) when x is less than 0. When x is greater than 0, it evaluates to 0 (false). The result of this operation is multiplied with X^3 then. The same way is (X>=0)*X evaluated. Definition through a program is also possible: << -> X << IF X 0. < THEN X 3 ^ ELSE X END >> Do that :-) Greetings, Nick. ==== You do not really need to do each seperately. You could do: Y1=((X^3*(X<0))+(X*(X>=0)))/(not((X<0) and (X>=0))), but I want to do something with a discontinuity, so: Y1=(X^3*(X<0)+X*(X>0))/(not((X<0) and (X>0))). I have a tendancy to use parenthesies _very_ liberaly, to ensure that my equations are interpreted correctly. The 'not(and)' statement at the bottom of the fraction makes the function undefined whenever neither conditional is met, and the multipliers on the top make only the correct statement graph. In essence, at X=2, mine reads '(X^3*0+X*1)/(not (0 and 1))'. The 'not(0 and 1)' evaluates to 'not(0)', or 1. On the top, 'X^3*0' results in 0, and therefore, the expression simplifies to '(0+X)/1', which is, of course, the same as 'Y=X'. Anyway, the function you originaly gave matches up with both methods, but mine graphs one function and yours takes longer to graph 2. Mine also lets you trace along one continuous line. Yours is _a lot_ simpler to explain, though. Boolean logic is fun! Dylan Stewart ==== Depending on how sparse the non-zero coefficients are, it may be even faster to use Horners scheme, which obviates the need for calculating powers. (The drawback is that all coeffecients of 1, x, ..., x^n must be calculated, even those that are zero) << -> x n << 0 n 1 FOR i x * i L + -1 STEP >> where L is the name of the function f(n)-> c_n - hans kristian - ==== I have used the TI-89/92+/92 for more than five years. I have used the HP49G emulator, and that too not very frequently (simply because I don't need to :) I don't recall whether the TI-83 supports functions (similar to programs), but the TI-89/92+ do. In fact, most of the things I have written are functions (in both TI-Basic and C). Yes, of course you can do this. One way is to use the part() function. You can also find the coefficients by differentiating. when(x<0,x^3,x) The fourth argument of when() is what is returned when the condition does not evaluate to either true or false. So, to graph: x^3, x>1 x, x<0 undef, otherwise use: when(x>1,x^3,when(x<0,x,undef)) If you prefer using the method of multiplying by conditionals, use division instead of multiplication to represent undef. For example, x/(x>1) will be undef when x<=1. :) Use the great DiffEq by Lars Frederiksen: http://www.perez-franco.com/symbulator/download/am.html Bhuvanesh. ==== You're confusing me :) What's 'n'? The polynomial? It can't be. Bhuvanesh. ==== Yours is an interesting variation but it has a number of disadvantages. Firstly it is quite difficult for a student to understand. Secondly, and more importantly, it doesn't work as well for non-continuous functions. For example, if you try to use it for X/(X<1) and (X^2-1)/(X>=1) then you'll find that the discontinuous ends of the function are joined by a jagged vertical line which should not be there if it is a proper graph. (At least, they are on my HP39G) If you use my method then the graph looks exactly as it should. -- Colin Croft Old mathematicians never die; they just lose some of their functions. ====================================== Applications in Mathematics ccroft@iinet.net.au http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/ ====================================== ==== n is the series term index or number. ____________________________________ Christopher R. Carlen Principal Laser/Optical Technologist Sandia National Laboratories CA USA crcarle@sandia.gov ==== this is the manual for the CAS (pdf): http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~degraeve/cas49_1.pdf it is writen for algebraic mode, but it will give you an idea of what the commands do. best of all, it is free! ==== It is not difficult to write a program to find an IRR. (Use Newton's method of finding a root of a polynomial.) Sometimes, when cash flows are a mixture of positive and negative values, there may be multiple IRRs. The number of possible IRRs is bounded by the number of sign changes in the series of payments. I am interested in how the 17BII handles multiple IRRs. Does it report all IRRs, one IRR, or none at all? On 15 Jan 2002 04:53:46 -0800, jm_dl.blenner@bigpond.com (Martin ==== Don Phillips' FIN 4.2.1 doesn't do the job? http://www.hpcalc.org/viewzip.php?id=191&file=FIN421B.TXT To quote the document I link to above: The 11 programs are EQV, TVM, capital budgeting (IRR, NPV, NUS, NFV), generalized IRR and NPV calculations, bonds, stocks, depreciation, options, inflation adjustments, simple interest, and discounted securities using the GDP or CPI indexes. Doh... I guess FIN doesn't work with a 49? Maybe it's easily portable? ==== Don, your statement about Cashflows potentially producing more than one IRR is correct however, the 17BII does not have the feature built in to produce MIRR's. Personally, I have not used the 17BII to do MIRR's in my work apart from varying the input Cashflows (using sensitivity variables), but don't doubt the capability of the HP17BII as a Financial Calculator. It has the Solver capability, which allows the operator to customise your own functions. I've used this capability in the past for a range of functions. In the beginning, it seems a little tricky, but once you've worked on it for a while, the power of the 17BII comes to the fore. I've found the manual really helpful. Only complaint is the Button Cell batteries don't last long when you're spending heaps of time on the Calculator. Martin. ==== Mike, thanks heaps. I missed this program on previous searches. The text file talks about heaps of features that I would love to use. Will try to load into the HP49G. Martin ==== Mike, thanks heaps for this. I have missed it on previous seaches. Will try to install on the 49G. Martin ==== No problem. Please let the group know if it works on the 49, and of course, make a backup before trying. :-) -Mike -- http://www.mschaef.com ==== Sorry, when I said root directory I meant the first page of your custom menu. LL ==== I am still puzzled why Wolfgang's problem would prevent the screen to be updated. The call to TurnOff calls itself ClrDAsOK. Also, running a *normal* RPL program on my machine that is doing something similar as what Wolfgang is doing has no problem with the screen update. I really don't understand here. I didn't spend too much time either, but still ==== Is there someone who could tell me what derXROOT(_,_,_,_) means? If it's possible, answer in spanish (As you can see, I'm spanish). ==== Cuando la 48 no sabe derivar algo, expresa el resultado de esa forma... El comando DERIV, en la biblioteca INTGR de ALG48 v4.2, deriva las ra222ces de 222ndice mayor que 2. Escribe con lo que sea. Trataremos de ayudar. Ra234l ==== When the HP48 must has to find the derivative of some function, for which it doesn't know what the derivative is, it denotes this with derFunction(Arguments). Arguments means here not only the arguments that you supplied to the original funtion, but also additional arguments. There is one additional argument for each argument of the original function. If you, for example, would like to take the derivative of the built-in function %(Y,X) with respect to X, you would have the result: der%(Y,X,0,1). The 0 is the inner derivative of the initial argument Y with respect to X. The 1 is the inner derivative of the initial argument X with respect to X. So der%(Y,X,0,1) means a function that depends on the initial arguments and the derivatives of these arguments with respect to X. If you want, you can define such derivatives. For XROOT you could do the following: Enter: derXROOT(Y,X,a,b)=INV(X)*XROOT(Y,X)/Y Press DEF. Now, everytime you take the derivative of XROOT your definition will be evaluated and you will get the defined function instead of derXROOT. If I remember well, this is also well documented in the manuals of the 48. Hope it helped you a little, Nick. ==== I recently updated to the 1/4/02 vger.flash ROM that updates a SOLVE bug. Every now and then the FILER refuses to open and hangs w/ the hourglass that stays forever. Only an ON+C would fix it. I'm just wondering if anyone experienced this using this or any other ROM version. With the original 1.19-6 ROM I never had this problem. I'm unable to determine what triggers this. I believe it happen after I save a variable using the shortcut LS+F# but I can't verify this for all the cases. Sometimes after a PINIT, the Filer starts working again, sometimes it doesn't (unfortunately this is currently the case). It is very strange, can anyone validate this? Diego. ==== Ooops.. really ugly, I have confirmed it in my emulator.. I think we need come back to 1.19-6 (old one) and wait to 1.19-7 that Jean Yves and Bernard Pairsse are working in.. J.Manrique CdU de la ETSIG ==== i vote for chucking the algebraic mode once for all. with less weight it'll run faster (he he). the algebraic mode was for marketing purposes and nobody uses it. so, why have it? (for algebraic V1.18 works great!) PS: if they made public the source, it would eventually end up being pure RPN (where HP shines). may be the V1.20 will be :) ==== Funny :-) I am at work now, where I have emu48 too.. and FILER works right :-) Have fun, J.Manrique CdU de la ETSIG ==== Yeeeeeeeesssssssssssssss. Most people that use algebraic mode don't know how to change the ROM version ;) A new age ;) Ricardo -- http://iespgirona.xtec.es/~rblasco/ Un222os, hermanos linuxeros 640 Kb de memoria son m207s que suficientes (IBM AT Designers - 1982) Bueno, espero que esto no aparezca en la versi227n final (Bill Gates en la presentaci227n de Windows Crash Debug '98) ==== I have a PEEK program which is a part from a contrast program. When I run #00101h PEEK I get a very long string. I would appreciate it if you could help me to get the contrast level in UserRpl from this stage since I don't know enough in ML. Tal ==== If the PEEK you refer to is mine, you need to enter 2 parameters : Address # of nibbles to peek Thus #00101h #1h PEEK should reply the proper data Paul ==== Here we go. I am an old HP-fan and I am looking for a well-preserved and working HP01 clock, but at no astronomic price, please. Can someone help me? I didn't know there was such a thing as a HP01 clock. -- David Haguenauer ==== There was never an HP01 clock... it was actually a watch. The limits of the language is not Uhr problem. Try: http://www.hpmuseum.org/hp01.htm Greg S. ==== You're sick, sick, sick!! :-) -- Colin Croft Old mathematicians never die; they just lose some of their functions. ====================================== Applications in Mathematics ccroft@iinet.net.au http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/ ====================================== <3c43810a@news.svn.net> <20020115031740.7eba6827.hsamplon@lemel.fr> ==== David--- If I remember my German class correctly, the term for a wristwatch is ``armbanduhr''. It is likely a simple abbreviation---for instance, we no longer refer to our watches as wristwatches in common parlance. In any case, Marcus should probably look on eBay first and foremost. If not there, perhaps do searches for calculator and/or wristwatch collectors. Mit Vielen Glueck, Henry C. Gernhardt, III ==== some days ago I started using the program BKUP from Bob Apodaca for the HP 48. I have some minor problems, which I don't understand. I tried to I have a 48G which is upgraded to 768 kB RAM. I configured BKUP to back up everything, so I have: BACK UP PORT(S): { 1 2 3 4 5 } SAVE STACK & LASTARG: YES USE DEFAULT FILENAME: YES SAVE FLAGS: YES ARCHIVE HOME: YES PROTOCOL: HP48 KERMIT BKUP on the HP and it starts to back up the objects in the upper ports first. Some days ago ports 4 and 5 were empty, so it started with Port 3, then 2. Meanwhile I added some libraries to port 4. When I did a backup again yesterday, it started at Port 3 again and 'forgot' Port 4. I started the backup a second time, and entered the Port list again, but with the same result. The second problem is: It backs up the Ports first. Then, before backing up HOME (i.e. HPJAN14.BAK or some other date) it stops with an error message 'ARCHIVE error: Too few arguments'. Then I deleted the port list in the CNFG and tried again. Now it did back up the HPJAN14.BAK file. The file transmission itself works. -- Ralf Kleineisel ==== Are there any of those people who did so much great upgrade work in the early days still reading this newsgroup? (Or any electronics expert?) I still have my original SX, and I have no desire to get anything newer...but I do want to upgrade the memory. I have read all the memory upgrade material that I can find and have successfully added a 128K chip to either port. Now, I would like to have 128K on each port, without using two chips. I have an idea, but I would like to have an expert tell me if it would work. I have a 256K chip, therefore it has eighteen address lines A0..A17. would drive line A17 from CE2 through a tri-state driver, e.g. 74244, something like this: CE1---------------+--CE | | Vcc-------| >-----+ |/ | CE2--------| | | Vcc-------| >--------A17 |/ Now, my only knowledge of HP48 and memory chips comes from reading old postings, but from what I see this looks like it would work. Can anyone tell me for sure before I waste my time on it? The things that worry me are: 1) When CE2 is driven high, is CE1 driven low? If so, this would create high current from Vcc to CE1 through the driver. Could that be fixed with resistors? I don't see how. 2) What happens when CE2 is low, so A17 floats? Can an address line float or must it be pulled low? I guess it wouldn't be too hard to add a pull-down resistor, but if it can float, that's better. 3) That there's a problem with the whole scheme that doesn't even occur to me because I'm inexperienced. Karl. ==== what I'm writing here was newer tested. Please use this information here at your own risk. CE1 and CE2 (both are active high) are normal Chip Enable lines, that means that it isn't possible that both lines are going high at the same time. For the RAM chip A17 line you can either use the CE1 or the CE2 line, it doesn't matter which one you use (at the RAM chip access CE1 and CE2 have an inversed signal). The CE of the RAM depends if the RAM chip-CE is active low or high (some RAM chips have both). Active high: CE = CE1 OR CE2 Active low: /CE = /(CE1 OR CE2) = /CE1 AND /CE2 Please remember to set both CDT1 and 2 (Card detection) input lines to high to indicate present and writable cards in both slots. Christoph Karl Nelson schrieb im Newsbeitrag ==== I have just uploaded the document to www.hpcalc.org until it shows up there you can download it at http://www.sv-kats.nl/MLTUT.zip -- This message was written with 100% recycled electrons Pivo ==== Mike I've looked at the programs on hpcalc.org and there are some basic Financial capabilities such as Present Value and Future Value of Annuities but, they do not extend to what I'm looking for. I would like to enter a series of Cashflows and be able to analyse them against a discount rate of interest for Net Present Value and similarly to obtain the Internal Rate of Return, etc as mentioned above. Yes, the 17BII does provide these functions quite adequately, but for convenience, it would be great to perform these types of analysis with the 49G. Martin. ==== I just recieved my 49G and although I like it I noticed that the key labels seem like they are going to wear off really fast, so I thought I'd ask someone who has had the calculator for a longer time. Do the key labels wear off (by sweat etc) or are they sturdy and just seem fragile ? ==== Petr Novak schrieb: I've had mine (ID93 but soft keyboard) for about a year and a half now, the key labels (and everything else) are still in perfect condition. Except the dust under the display cover. Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them. ==== Well my ENTER key is starting to wear off and I just noticed that today. I wonder if someone has found some sort of lacquer that can be painted over the keys to protect them. Luis ==== Mines about the same age, 18 mths. Lost most of the F on the F6 key, R is worn on the Enter and O on the ON key. Some of this wear maybe form sliding the cover on and off as I take the calc home every night. Also have a fine crack in the body above the screen. No dust under the screen though. ==== Mine is ID93 but the hardest possible keyboard. I have it now for 3 years. Key labels F1, F6 and ENTER are almost completely unreadable. I hope I'll be able to memorize the position of all keys, because if not, then I'll have also the game key hunt built-in in addition to the current menu hunt (thanks to J.H. Meyers who discovered this. ;-) ) Greetings, Hunting Nick. ==== I have to lists, called a and b. a = {2, 4, 0} b = {1, 5, 0} And this is what I wanted to calculate: SUM(i=0, 2, SUM(j=0, i, GET(a, j+1)*GET(b, i-j+1))) I tried it in the eqw, but it didn't allow the GET commando. I am new to programming with the hp49g and I tried several things, but nothing worked. Can anybody help? Thanx in adanvace! cu, Thomas Leitner ==== It should work if you use for example: SUM(n=1,3,SUM(m=1,n,a(m)*b(n-m))) But it doesn't! The evaluation of the index of the list elements in the inner sum, doesn't work. Be happy, you just entered the heavens of the bug finder! ;-) Use a program instead. Example: << 0 1 3 FOR I 1 I FOR J a J GET b I J - GET * + Greetings, Nick. ==== cu Thomas ==== True, GET isn't a function, and so can't be used in an algebraic object. Also, SUM (upper case sigma) doesn't like the function i as an index; just a guess, but maybe the index for a summation is a global variable rather than a local variable. Or maybe it's a flag setting? Also note that (n-m) evaluates to 0 in the first iteration, which doesn't work for the index of a variable. I used 'GS(m=0,2,GS(n=0,m,a(n+1)*b(m-n+1)))' which correctly EVALs to 36 on my 48SX and 48GX, but EVALs to '2.*b(m+1.)+(4.*b(m-1.+1.)+2.*b(m+1.))+(4.*b(m-1.+1.)+2.*b(m+1.))' on my 49G. I tried 'GS(m=1,2,GS(n=1,2,m+n))', and got the correct result of 12 on all of the calculators, so apparently the inner summation can access the index of the outer summation, but the evaluation of the variable index indeed fails to find the index of the outer summation on the 49G. Bug? New Limitation? Wrong flag settings? Maybe: << 0 1 3 FOR i 1 i FOR j a j GET b i j - 1 + GET * + NEXT NEXT >> James ==== True also, but you can use 'a(I)' instead. It is a local variable, but 'i' is a reserved word (can't be declared as a local variable). ==== board. Up until now to remove a library I simply go to ERAM or FLASH in the files menu select the library I want to remove and hit the purge button. Is this sufficient, and if not why not. Aubrey ==== It is. -- This message was written with 100% recycled electrons Pivo <3C4545EA.69DE3E2E@student.tnw.tudelft.nl> ==== Peter Geelhoed schrieb: Except if the library stores some information in the hidden directory and you want to get rid of it. Usually there's a Purge Configuration command inside the library just for that purpose. Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them. ==== I forgot about that. My hidden directory is very clean though, since TTRM's clear it regularly :-) -- This message was written with 100% recycled electrons Pivo ==== Are all the HP Web Rings die ? Reagards Eric ==== Oh no! Keep living somewhere in the twilight zone. Greetings, Nick. ==== No because, i would launch a HP webring and i would ask to some persons if that s a good idea ? If ther are a lot thats not useful, but i can have the help of HP Network to launch it :) Eric Nick Karagiaouroglou a 216crit dans le message de ==== Eric schrieb im Newsbeitrag The HP48Ring is still alive, use http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=hp48&;list to view the list of sites in the ring. Christoph ==== Had a HP sale burst here in the Office. 3xHP32S, HP49 and a HP48G+. Any chance of a kickback. Apparently there are no more 32's in Australia, the only HP RPN scientific calculator model. Also the 48 was bought because the retailer insisted there was no 49. ==== I know that HP at one point used a two color mold process to form key lables that were pretty much indelible. I was wondering if HP's newer calculators were similarly made, as I'm perhaps planning on buying a 17BII or a 12C. I'm sure the 12 at one point used the molded keys, but am not so sure about the more recently produced versions. Also, if it did change at some point in time, is there an easy way to see if a machine was made with molded keys? If I get stuck trying to buy an older machine on ebay, that might become important. Mike -- http://www.mschaef.com ==== you might check www.hpmueum.org about molded keys or not;-) AFAIK all HP calcs are made with painted keys now, I have a NIB 12C and a NIB 32SII, bought some years ago, and even these machines have painted keys;-((( Ot the 32SII the legends/printings are so bad compared to the older version w/molded keys, I would not buy this model again with painted keys. I have both, so I can compare easily;-) The 12C kbd & legends are not much better, and the keys 'feel' not as solid as on my U.S. made 12C... But I have a NIB 42S made in 1999, which seems to have molded keys. The models with rubber keys all have the symbols painted on. My suggestion: Try to get a used one with molded keys. It's simply easier to read the symbols. Raymond MSCHAEF.COM schrieb im Newsbeitrag ==== The HP49 has a whole new set of entries for drawing text in the screen (or elsewhere). These are entries such as LEFT$3x5, LEFT$3x5Arrow and others. LEFT$3x5 seems to work like CENTER$3x6 already existing from the '48. Is that true? Is there any difference? And what about the other entries? I couldn't figure out their use. Could someone explain them? -- Eduardo M Kalinowski http://move.to/hpkb ==== They do work in a similar way. I've sent the whole description of the entries to Carsten and it should be on his entry points web site .. ==== I have created a library using the neat program LBMKR of Marco Ciolfi. Is it possible to decompose a library back into it's original components ? I suppose I don't really understand what the CRLIB command is physically doing, hence this question. Aubrey. ==== Yes, you can convert libraries into directories. There are a number of programs that do it. Take a look at this page: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/programming/libs/ Since you are a newbie, OT49 probably suits you best. -- This message was written with 100% recycled electrons Pivo ==== Well, i don't use the InformBox Generator of debug2 anymore, because i had a lot of problems with it. One of them was the handling of errors. So i use the text version (IfMain) and that works fine. Doesn't matter if you choose Mini font, because the font is handled in the message IfMsgGetFieldGrob. Also no problem, the field is a text field so no Choose related message send. That's right, the general messagehandled where to put a new menu, and to handled a OK and Cancel. I will consider it, if the time is there Pieter ==== When I ran a program (Library) which had never given me problems before, I had a memory reset. I reloaded the library and had a memory reset again at the same point. So I had a look at the directory from which the library had been created and at the point where the problem occurred there were three Externals which I do not remember placing there. I used John Meyers PACK-> to discover which sysevals had generated these Externals and they were merrily converted back to the format: #XXXX h SYSEVAL (three of them) Unfortunately I have already edited the program to its original form so I cannot tell you what these entry points were, but I looked in the XREF table and they do not exist. The only thing I can tell is that they had taken the place of a local variable. This local variable is used in other places in the program and I don't think the same substitution has occurred. I have V 1.18 installed in my machine. Does anybody have the foggiest idea what is going on? Luis ==== You must have run a byggy program prior to this one. A buggy program running wild can easily change something in memory - also stored objects. ==== I need to convert a program that was written for a HP48GX to my HP49G. It is mainly written in User RPL with a little System RPL. The program is Don Phillips' Finance 4.2.1 B which is on the hpcalc.org site. Can someone assist please? Martin Blennerhassett. ==== Sorry for the delay - one week without web access. I guess we've got to try and play. Bye. HPCC member #1046 - ==== since i don't know (if it is possible at all) how to operate the x48-emulator at HP-original speed, i'd like to ask if the autorepeat function of the calculator can be turned off so that i could delete one character at a time? TIA, Oliver -- Theoretische Elektrotechnik 2-06 TU Hamburg-Harburg Harburger Schlossstr. 20 21079 Hamburg ==== Well, the HP48 has no available option to turn the autorepeat of the backspace key off. Greetings, Nick. ==== i'd turn off autorepeat for all keys - that would work for my purpuses. TIA, Olivier -- Theoretische Elektrotechnik 2-06 TU Hamburg-Harburg Harburger Schlossstr. 20 21079 Hamburg ==== Sorry, I didn't make that clear. The HP48 does not have the option to turn autorepeat off for any key. This is true for the machine itself, but I can' remember if the x48 emulator has this feature. Greetings, Nick. ==== ok, now i got it; a already had a look at the x48 source-code, but i hoped to get around modifying it. Since the x48-emulator-package has not changed since years (fast computers too), the job is probably not that easy. But maybe i'll try if i find the time. -- Theoretische Elektrotechnik 2-06 TU Hamburg-Harburg Harburger Schlossstr. 20 21079 Hamburg ==== Interesting concept... may be theoretically possible, though perhaps with some functionality missing (e.g., card support sounds especially questionable). However, despite the faster processor and larger screen, Palm OS has some serious restrictions of its own - 256 KB heap, regardless of total memory; 4 KB stack, and 16-bit integers. Some of the heap space is used by the system so the full amount is in fact never available. Palm development tools like CodeWarrior and prc-tools are capable of compiling C++, but the C library is severely crippled and some functions just don't work the same on Palm OS (e.g., sprintf). Would definitely require a great deal of work. -- Andre Schoorl http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/ ==== it for the OS. <> I too own both an HP48GX and a Visor Platinum. I would love to merge these into one device, and I've researched a lot of software to to see the feasibility of this. Sadly, the most powerful RPN program I can find is RPN. There are other powerful calculators (Power One and CplxCalc), but none can remotely touch the power of my HP48 with the Erable libraries. The HP emulator can not be ported to the existing PalmOS because the ROM is so much larger than the Palm's stack space. Much as I dislike the interface of the PocketPCs, they do have the hardware and memory-addressing to handle the usual bloat-ware that accompanies it. So, there is an HP48 emulator for the PocketPC. Oddly enough, there seems to be more requests for a Matlab emulator than an HP48 emulator. The text interface eats less of the stack memory, and the cut&paste abilities of the PalmOS make this easy to use. Lyme (www.calerga.com) has the best rendition of this, complete with user-defined functions and plotting. In the meantime, perhaps we'll be able to look again at the HP emulator when the new PalmOS5 comes out with the new Arm processor. Until then, my HP is faithfully pushing me through my Master's degree! ==== Please excuse my ignorance if I'm making an obvious mistake here as I've never programmed in Java. But my understanding is that Java is supposed to be able to run on any machine with minimal software modification - so why has no-one ever written the emulator in Java and solved the problem of platforms for it once and for all? -- Colin Croft Old mathematicians never die; they just lose some of their functions. ====================================== Applications in Mathematics ccroft@iinet.net.au http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/ ====================================== ==== You are quite correct in theory; however, in my opinion, the main issue in a Java emulator would be performance. (Unix OS, RISC CPU), the overhead of an emulator written in C roughly slows down the CPU clock speed by an order of magnitude. For example, my emulator runs a saturn CPU at an apparent speed of 8-10MHz on a 100MHz Alpha CPU, assuming there is no paging; RISC CPU in mind. Simple, interpreted implementations of the Java virtual machine like the ones to be found on portable devices are likely to slow down the emulation process by an additional order of magnitude; at least, these are the figures I obtained when I attempted to implement the main CPU ISA execution loop using JDK 1.0.2, Digital Unix platform. Things should be better if the Java VM supports advanced execution techniqus, like code mutation, just-in-time compilation, and so on, but I have never checked this, so I cannot estimate how much speed could be gained and I don't know if these optimizations are feasible on a portable device. Does anyone have any clue on this? Ivan -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ivan Cibrario Bertolotti / phone: +39-011-3919246 IRITI - National Research Council / fax: +39-011-341882 ==== Thx Thomas Aber ich mochte schreiben im port 2.... Where did you learn tahr is ther a doc ? Eric 3C432C9F.5520B667@iname.com... ASM <3C432C9F.5520B667@iname.com> <3c446e0d$0$192$626a54ce@news.free.fr> ==== Eric schrieb: I've read somewhere on hpcalc.org that HP has not released any information about *writing* to the flash. Other Ps in the ACCESSBankX routines have other meanings, but I don't know them, maybe somebody else can tell us? In general, for documentation you should check hpcalc.org. There's also the new entry database, compiled by Carsten Dominik, which lists a lot of entries (both RPL and ML). The URL is: http://zon.astro.uva.nl/~dominik/hpcalc/entries Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them. ==== Hallo Thomas Rast, danke f237r die schnelle Antwort. Genau das war die Frage wie man z.B. bei einer Wurzel s212mtliche L232sungen im komplexen Zahlenbereich erh212lt. So erh212lt man z.B. bei einer 5. Wurzel immer 5 L232sungen. Wo ist denn diese TOOL Taste ? mfG Reiner Oesterle Thomas Rast schrieb: <3C44B774.91617E63@t-online.de> ==== Reiner-Oesterle schrieb: Angenommen, du hast einen 49G, dann ist sie gleich neben den Pfeiltasten. F237r die 48er brauchst du wahrscheinlich zus212tzliche Software, damit du solche Gleichungen l232sen kannst, und 237ber die 39/40er weiss ich zuwenig. Es kommt also darauf an welchen Rechner du hast. Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them. ==== If you keep using your RAM card into Port 1 and not into Port 2, then you will not see any difference. I still have my P version bought many years ago. The *new* R version that have been made in China (from last year) have the same screen as the HP49G. This screen has a much better contrast, however, I think for gaming purposes the old blue screen of the earlier HP48G was better, and the SX screen (still for games or pictures moving quickly) was even better. The HP49G screen is very readable however ==== Well, i forgot two more informations: 1) i have an Equation Library Card. can i use it on a GX to add the Periodic Table and, eventually, what is non included in the gx's library? 2) just today, i found a shop which is waiting for a stock of GXs. Assuming they will be the latest revision (i.e. R rom, new display (China?), etc.) what is your suggestion? Should i buy the old P (kept in its box in the shop for years, but having the _old_ HP quality) for 191 euro (about 212 US $) or the new R (i heard something about the painting on the keys and, in general, about poor quality of plastics and assembly) for 226 euro (about 251 US $). Could i have some warranty problems buying an old calculator? -- Marco Polo marco.polo@katai.cina ==== 191 euro (about 212 US $) Are you sure about this exchange? I thought 1´=0,90$ (approx.) ==== Marco--- Huh! Here in the US, I can order a GX direct from HP for something like $150 or so. Good luck, Henry C. Gernhardt, III ==== ordering the calculator from an european dealer. The price of a new is lower than the average price of most italian shops. are greater and at least until 1999 there was an additional custom tax of 6.75% for foreign (outside EEC) electronic goods imported into Italy. I am in no way affiliated with them but, for example, I had good experience with both Cynox (http://www.cynox.de) and Dynatech (http://www.dynatech.de). Have a look to http://www.hpcalc.org/buying.php for more information. Ivan ==== Oops!!!!!!!!!!! I badly converted Euro to $ (1 Euro=.9 $.....i made the contrary :-))) ) So 191 Euro = 171.9 $ and 226 Euro = 203.4 $ Sorry!! -- Marco Polo marco.polo@katai.cina Marco Polo ha scritto nel messaggio Should i buy the old P Could ==== We all (europeans) are newbies with Euro!! ;-) ==== UTool 2.5 is up on hpcalc.org. This version fixes a bug in the USIMP command which affected simplification of electric and radiation units. - Carsten ==== I'm taking a beginning Statistics course that is equivalent to a college survey class. Of course, everything is geared towards the Ti-83. I downloaded a couple of Stats programs (including Stats Pro 49), but I find these apply mostly to inferential statistics, and I'm doing descriptive statistics right now. 1). Does anyone know if the 49G will be able to sketch a density curve from a set of data or from a histogram? 2). I know this is possible. But what command lets the calculator generate a series of random numbers (say 150 random numbers between 1 and 10)? ==== How can I run HP39/40 or HP48 Appz/Games on a HP49G? Can I 'play' 000 (String) - Files (from HP39/40) on a HP49G? Greetings from Germany Robert ==== Hey all, I've got a nice HP 42S in great shape for trade or sale. I'm looking for guitar effects (older, working or not), speakers, tube gear, or other music related items in trade for it, or will sell for with any questions or offers. http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mitchdawn.lane/Misc/calc.html Mitch Lane, Windsor,N.S.,Canada mitchdawn.lane@ns.sympatico.ca ==== I've ordered one from Samson and now have my fingers crossed. Don L. inside) to UPS wanted myself, or ==== I had to pay some cutsoms fees / taxesg. I think it was about $20 Canadian. ==== Sure hope you get it by UPS Air or a non-UPS service... UPS Ground is just not very pleasant. -- Al ==== And this was with UPS International Air? I wonder if you even need to pay these taxes if you use USPS. -- Al ==== Depending the values & situations : 1- Value in Canadian dollars : or tax on the item. If the item is worth more than $20 CAN, you must pay the applicable duty, the GST or HST, and any PST on the item's full value. Some items do not qualify for the $20 CAN exemption: tobacco books periodicals magazines alcoholic beverages goods ordered through a Canadian post office box or intermediary 2- Items that qualify as a gift For an item to qualify as a gift, another person must send it to you personally and must include a card or other notice indicating that it's a gift. don't have to pay duty or tax. If the gift is worth more than $60, you must pay duty and tax on the amount over $60 CAN. For example, if a relative sends you a gift worth $200 CAN, you must pay the applicable duty, the GST or HST, and any PST on $140 CAN. HTH, Pyerre ==== any duty or tax you paid. Please note that Canada Post's $5 CAN handling fee will not be refunded. To request a refund of duty and taxes, simply complete the back of Form E14, Customs Postal Import Form, and send it to the nearest Casual Refund Centres (also listed on the back of the form). When you ask for a refund, you must show proof that you returned the goods. For instance, provide a credit note or a letter from the sender. HTH, Pyerre ==== Note the sender's name and the recipient's name. Bill ==== ---------------- Unless [quote] you dumb jerk [unquote], the directory has none or only one variable in it. -- john R. Latala jrlatala@golden.net ==== Hmmm... after following the threads on the HP 32Sii, I checked eBay. So that calculator is going for around $100 US, and the HP 42S is going for the mid-$100s, both of them much more than they sold for new... and HP is trying to build TI- and Casio look-alikes? HP represents everything that's wrong with corporate America these days... business people and marketing people, who have no understanding of, commitment to, or affection for technology, running the company for purely business motives, leading to lowest-common-denominator products designed for the broadest possible market, so there's no room left for excellence. It's the same reason the airwaves are filled with Classic Rock - the business majors have taken over and the artists have left the building... Vic Riley ==== correction: 32sii's are 200$++ on ebay ==== I'm a spanish civil engineer, and i'm a beginner in HP49. I have some questions: 1.- Is it posible to introduce a subindex (not superindex, I mean the one in the low part of the line) , in Equation Writer? How? 2.- I'd like to make a data table, with some simple graphics (for instance some beams, and embendding moments), where you dont need to give an input, just to have a look at them... how could i make it? (have no idea about programming) Is there any tool to make this? I have seen beams programs, where the drawings appear, but i dont want a program which solves something, i just want a program which dispalys something. 3.- Could u tell me some utility programs in order to make all this using the PC and after that, transfer it to my HP, i mean, not the transfer program, but the ones which allow me to introduce in my PC, as it's faster to type in my PC than in my HP. Spain ==== Where did you get this hpconv program? Is it reliable most of the time? I would be interested in such a program that would convert 48 programs to 49. ==== ====