B3 ==== > Actually in my experience, RPN has worked better for me on complex > cculations. On my TI-89, I'll enter an expression and use lot's of > parenthesis and soon I'm scrolling to the right to get the whole expression > entered; invariably, I mess up the count and end up wasting a lot of time > trying to scroll back and forth to find where things are unbanced. This > can be so darn frustrating. After a while you just want a better way and > that's what RPN delivers. And that's what the EQW delivers, too. Personly, I used RPN only to be able to see how the expression was being built up; now that I have EQW, I don't use RPN much any more. And no, it's not that I don't know how to use it (after l, I used it for quite a while before EQW was released). -- ==== > For simplicity, we restrict ourself to the example a=i, b=1 but I mean a=1, b=i. ==== > My exams are gonna start in one week an i want some information. Well, this is a quite sort time, but we are going to try to help you... > 2)What is the easiest mode to do it?In RPN or in gebric mode? Let me answer this one first. I personly beleive that RPN is better (see the Why is RPN so good thread). > 1)How can i make complex operations? You can enter a complex number like this: (15.2, 78.3) and once the number is on the stack, you can use l the standard functions (+, -, SIN ...) > 3)How can i switch the complex mode?e.g. 5+8i=9,433981132<57.99461679Á If you want to display in Polar mode, you can either go in Mode, and change to polar in the coordinate system or, use the RECT and CYLIN commands to switch from rectangular to Cylindric coordinates (Cylindric is equivent to polar in 2 dimentions). > 4)How can I cculate the Det of a matrix with variables and numbers? Just enter the matrix: [[ 4 5 ] [ 'X' 'Y' ]] and then use the DET command to get: Cyrille > sorry for my English! ==== i own a HP49G ==== > Rightarrow in a HOME backup definitely ends up in a warmstart in ROM > 19-6 > (I once got a TTRM). The same in the filer planned for ROM 19-7 ... > Other null-names, e.g., the ones created by the hiding tools in my > filers, cause no problems. After extensive test, I couldn't reproduce ANY bugs that you've reported regarding entering into null-name directory in a backup in either ROM 1.19-6 or ROM 1.19-7. Here is what I did: :2:FOO.DIR ARCHIVE Go into Filer, go into Port2, Right Arrow on FOO.DIR, right Arrow on '' directory. Could see the name just fine. Now, copy FOO.DIR into HOME directory Accessing the '' directory, from either the Folder list (TREE view) or using Right Arrow didn't produce anything speci but the desired norm behavior. Regarding the other bug you mentionned in ROM 1.19-7 (that you can't enter in a library anymore using the Right Arrow Key). I've tried entering in a library saved in Port2, Port1, Port 1 or in VAR using the right arrow key: no problem whatsoever... Finly, after a closer look at the xRESTORE command, I don't see why starting it with COLA is required to work with long file name. COLA is unecessary. There must be another problem in your code. Just did a test, and it works without COLA ==== Wolfgang Rautenberg > Rightarrow in a HOME backup definitely ends up in a warmstart in > ROM 19-6 (I once got a TTRM). The same in the filer planned for ROM 19-7 > Other null-names, e.g., the ones created by the hiding tools in my > filers, cause no problems. > After extensive test, I couldn't reproduce ANY bugs that you've reported > regarding entering into null-name directory in a backup in either ROM > 1.19-6 or ROM 1.19-7. > Here is what I did: > :2:FOO.DIR ARCHIVE > Go into Filer, go into Port2, Right Arrow on FOO.DIR, right Arrow on '' > directory. Could see the name just fine. > Now, copy FOO.DIR into HOME directory This is not the problem. > Accessing the '' directory, from either the Folder list (TREE view) view is completely unclear to me. I use your origin filer for that > or using Right Arrow didn't produce anything speci but the desired > norm behavior. This is the problem on my new 49 with the origin ROM 19-6. I even deleted of HOME. After making a complete cleaning of the user memory to kill l possible viruses, I now get a different behavior: No warmstart anymore if trying be ended only by a warmstart. have such thing on a key. But it is unpleasant if the cc behaves unexpected. Maybe more people should read this thread and test it on their ccs. > Regarding the other bug you mentionned in ROM 1.19-7 (that you can't enter > in a library anymore using the Right Arrow Key). I've tried entering in a > library saved in Port2, Port1, Port 1 or in VAR using the right arrow key: > no problem whatsoever... This remains definitely a problem of my other 49 which is older but ok. > Finly, after a closer look at the xRESTORE command, I don't see why > starting it with COLA is required to work with long file name. COLA is > unecessary. Yes, I agree. Would be unlogic otherwise. It seems it was a memory problem, RESTORE (which by the way is extremely slow if the current HOME and the backup HOME are about 100 KB) seemingly needs a lot extra temp memory. Why doen't RESTORE itself make a fast and rigorous cleaning of HOME like on ON&A&F before it starts? The current HOME is lost anyway :-) ==== > Maybe this question makes it clearer/ more precise: > How can I find critic points of such a function: > f(x,y)=(x/2)-(x*y^2)+(9*y^2) The best way is to use the HESS function. In RPN mode: > enter your expression then LNAME to get the list of vars > then HESS SOLVE > Now you have the hessian matrix at level 2 and the list > of critic points found. To keep these points somewhere type DUP2 > and do SUBST to get the nature of the critic points: > this nature is given by the signature of the Hessian matrix > at the points, you can get the signature by applying the > SYLVESTER function to each matrix (in your example it > is not necessary but it could be for a more complex matrix) in > the list at level 1. Maybe you should make a little prog > << LNAME HESS SOLVE DUP2 SUBST >> I tried this. But I get the message : SOLVE Error - not exact System what does that mean? What's my fault? Greetings Stefan ==== Make sure not to use any implicit multiplication... E.g.: Write X*Y instead of XY (Hope this helped!) Gr.9f¤e, Stefan > > Maybe this question makes it clearer/ more precise: > > How can I find critic points of such a function: > > f(x,y)=(x/2)-(x*y^2)+(9*y^2) > The best way is to use the HESS function. In RPN mode: > enter your expression then LNAME to get the list of vars > then HESS SOLVE > Now you have the hessian matrix at level 2 and the list > of critic points found. To keep these points somewhere type DUP2 > and do SUBST to get the nature of the critic points: > this nature is given by the signature of the Hessian matrix > at the points, you can get the signature by applying the > SYLVESTER function to each matrix (in your example it > is not necessary but it could be for a more complex matrix) in > the list at level 1. Maybe you should make a little prog > << LNAME HESS SOLVE DUP2 SUBST > > I tried this. But I get the message : SOLVE Error - not exact System > what does that mean? What's my fault? Greetings Stefan ==== > Today I randomly read a reply from Miguel Angel. He mentioned two sites. One > was: www.hpcc.org the other was ca-on.hpcc.org . I have never heard of > that one, so I tried it. It was exacly like www.hpcc.org, but after a > while something strange hapenned. l the new additions disapeared, I was > the first visitor since 1997, and there were 0MB of software. Can anyone > explain it? And now after five minutes it is back in norm. Weird... I donÇt think you should be looking for a reason about that that. Sometimes servers crashes and sometimes your internet-line is unstable and sometimes they upgrade their servers, sometimes too many people are trying to get into the same website and you know... If a web-site doesnÇt work, then I usly try again some hours later and then thereÇs no problem, like in your case. BTW: if it wasnÇt because you asked about www.hpcc.org , wouldnÇt your post be off-topic? Martin J. ==== > Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either > www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? If not, it's merely a French > Connection problem. Denmark ok on l URLs. ==== > Question 1) When i do (at my HP49G) the following (i don't type sum and infinity, > just here...): sum(k=0, infinity, 0.5^k) it counts forever... until i interupt it, and then often the result is ok > or if not > very close. But why does it never stop? (my friends TI-89 answers right > after he pressed enter, and HP should be better than TI, as we l know > :-D ) In approximate mode, if you enter in 0.5, it does seem to be a little slow. However, when it is in exact mode, and I enter in 1/2, it's quite fast :) -- ==== How can you solve inequties in the hp 49g? stuff like 2(x+5)<10. what about cuadratic inequties? (2x(x+2)>0) and sistems of inequties? ==== > My old computer failed and I got a new one. > It took me a while to build it from spare parts. > (MSI Max2+Raid+LAN, 512MB DDR, 2GHz P4) > and a new 21 monitor with a Radeon 8500 at 1792*1344, 32-bit, 100Hz > AND > I have instled W2000+l SPs+Office2000+l > SPs+firewl+antipopup+antivirus+ > XnView+Acrobat reader+Quicktime+Rre one+Power DVD+Nero+CloneCD+ > Shockwave+Flash+Partition Magic+Ghostscript+GView+MS Java+Sun Java+ > TVS 2000 (for Finnish TV show arms autometed from web)+VisuRoute+ > MSN Explorer+MSN Messanger+WMP 9+WinZip+WinRAR+RegStudio+ > A whole lottta drivers+HP cc stuff+etc. > After about a hundred reboots everything seems to be zero killed aka 0K That sure sounds like a bloated PC. -- ==== > Maybe you should buy a HP 49G ??? > :-D I bought one when hp was offering the $75 dollar rebate. -Samuel ==== > The speed is ok: On my 40G it took 10320.7 seconds (2h 52min) to get > the result. Believe it or not, it took 12275.4935 to get the result on the HP 49G. That's quite a big difference, 3.40 hours compared to 2h 52min. Does anyone else venture to try it on a 49G? -- ==== I have downloaded everything that looked interesting but haven't found any info on applet structure except source code applet frame(s). They are commented but it's still hard for me to understand the overl structure and how user functions interact with the gebraic parser and the compiler. Ronny as ways: www.hpcc.org ! There you'll find extensive information, > and links to pages with even more speciized info on the 38G. Raymond ==== can I use my old printer HP82240B with the HP49G? I doesn't found anything about printing in the HP49G manu, but in CAT I found the commands PR1. Is there a more detailed manu in the internet available about HP49G? The manu in the HP49G box is in some cases not so detailed. Hans Joachim (.de) ==== > can I use my old printer HP82240B with the HP49G? Not directly, no. Sorry. The printer's only interface is IR, and the HP49G has no IR port. > ... in CAT I found the commands PR1. You *can* print from the HP49G, but only to a seri device connected to the wire I/O port. > Is there a more detailed manu in the internet available about HP49G? Go to www.hpcc.org and scroll down to the HP49G section. Hope this helps! -Joe- ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Joseph K. Horn p.92.8ae v diskusn.92m p[CapitThorn].92sp.9evku > can I use my old printer HP82240B with the HP49G? Not directly, no. Sorry. The printer's only interface is IR, and the HP49G > has no IR port. I was working on convertor with HP82240B support and it so supported my TV so I could use it as RC, and I will probably come back to it when I get back to Slovakia (in 6 months). (Currently I am an foreign exchange student in US.) I have a big plans with it: an extern interface fo HP49, like IR, wireless, data anysis ... I hope it will not be just dream. In that interface I used PIC16F84, but on www.hpcc.org there was some a similar convertor that used PIC12Cxxx and so detailed instructions are available. Anyway, the biggest problem I faced was the way how to power that convertor, I temporarily used a sml battery from MB, but I need a constant voltage 5V. Seri port does not provide enought power, because the IR LED needs a lot to get a good distance. > ... in CAT I found the commands PR1. You *can* print from the HP49G, but only to a seri device connected to the > wire I/O port. > Is there a more detailed manu in the internet available about HP49G? Go to www.hpcc.org and scroll down to the HP49G section. Hope this helps! -- Demo Fight the spam, click on the link! http://www.hostedscripts.com/scripts/antispam.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== In the Eric Rechlin Web site (www.hpcc.org or http://ca-on.hpcc.org) exist on HP49G IR Adapter V1.2 (IRdoc_V12.pdf) of Marcel Flipse Search in : http://ca-on.hpcc.org/search.php?query=infrared&hp49=1 Miguel Angel CAPORINI HERK **************************************************************************** *** > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Joseph K. Horn p.92Íe v diskusn.92m pÀ.92sp.93vku > can I use my old printer HP82240B with the HP49G? > Not directly, no. Sorry. The printer's only interface is IR, and the > HP49G > has no IR port. I was working on convertor with HP82240B support and it so supported > my TV so I could use it as RC, and I will probably come back to it when I > get back to Slovakia (in 6 months). (Currently I am an foreign exchange > student in US.) I have a big plans with it: an extern interface fo HP49, > like IR, wireless, data anysis ... I hope it will not be just dream. > In that interface I used PIC16F84, but on www.hpcc.org there was some > a similar convertor that used PIC12Cxxx and so detailed instructions are > available. > Anyway, the biggest problem I faced was the way how to power that > convertor, I temporarily used a sml battery from MB, but I need a constant > voltage 5V. Seri port does not provide enought power, because the IR LED > needs a lot to get a good distance. > ... in CAT I found the commands PR1. > You *can* print from the HP49G, but only to a seri device connected to > the > wire I/O port. > Is there a more detailed manu in the internet available about HP49G? > Go to www.hpcc.org and scroll down to the HP49G section. > Hope this helps! > -Joe- -- > Demo Fight the spam, click on the link! > http://www.hostedscripts.com/scripts/antispam.html > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** > http://www.usenet.com > Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== I have wait since end of October 2002 for the HP49G. HP can not deliver. HP is a very good profession companay ;-) Hans Joachim (.de) In <11624751.0301271120.65a2924f@posting.google.com> J.Manrique Lopez de We have been without hp49 cculators in Spain since November. I would > like to know if same situation happens in the rest of Europe, to know > how the new European main distributor works. I have asked today, and they've told me to wait until second week of > February. Could you imagine worst image for HP? People has begun their > university exams in January, and most of them couldn't buy a hp49. Of > course, they don't need a hp49 for the exam or could buy a hp48 > instead, but... you know, market rules, and many people is very angry > with HP because they have been telling that cculators would arrive > next week. This is about HP, not the loc or nation providers, since both get > their ccs from the European distributor. So, hp49 has dissapeared from Spanish market for most 4 months. In > November we couldn't find any hp49 in any market in Spain. As I said before, I would like to know which is the situation in rest > Europe. > J.Manrique > ==== anyone please tell me how to enter piecewise and step functions on the HP48GX? I'd rely appreciate it. so, is there an an way to find the second derivative directly? I've been finding the first derivative, writing it down on paper (which can be a pain), then entering it in again to find the second derivative. As you can see, this leaves lots of room for human error, and it's ready cost me some points on two exams. Jennifer ==== > anyone please tell me how to enter piecewise and step functions on the > HP48GX? I'd rely appreciate it. You might like to try a trick for the piecwise defined functions that works well on the 39G. I would think it would so work on the 48 but I don't have one to test on. The trick is to divide by the domain of the function. For example, suppose that the function was: f(x)= x+5 for x<=-2, 10-x^2 for -21 On the 39G you would enter this as three functions F1(X),F2(X) and F3(X) as below. F1(X)=(X+5)/(X<=-2) F2(X)=(10-X^2)/((X>-2) AND (X<=1)) F3(X)=(5-X)/(X>1) When you graph this you will, on the 39G at least, get a perfect display with the discontinous portions of the graph not joined by 'vertic' lines as they often are with other methods (such as using an IFTE definition). The reason why it works is that the domain is a True/Fse test that evuates to 1 within the domain and zero outside it. This means that within the domain the function is being divided by 1 (no effect) but outside it is being divided by zero (undefined, so not graphed). You can see some pictures of the result (on a 39G) if you go to http://www.hphomeview.com/faqs_40-49.htm#47 ==== > anyone please tell me how to enter piecewise and step functions on the > HP48GX? I'd rely appreciate it. The HP48GX doesn't have the step by step mode. Only the HP49G offers this functionity. I hardly use it, so I can't comment how useful it is. > so, is there an an way to find the second derivative directly? I've > been finding the first derivative, writing it down on paper (which can > be a pain), then entering it in again to find the second derivative. > As you can see, this leaves lots of room for human error, and it's > ready cost me some points on two exams. Use the stack to do this or write a sml program. Example how to do this on the stack (RAD-mode): 'SIN(X)' 'X' [r-shift]-[SIN] gives you the first derivative: 'COS(X)' put again 'X' on the stack [r-shift]-[SIN] gives you the second derivative: 'SIN(X)' ==== > anyone please tell me how to enter piecewise and step functions on the > HP48GX? I'd rely appreciate it. The HP48GX doesn't have the step by step mode. Only the HP49G offers this > functionity. I hardly use it, so I can't comment how useful it is. Roman, I think that Jennifer was tking about the step function and in gener about piece wise defined functions, and not about the step-by-step-(un)functionity of the HP49G. If this was the case, then of course it is possible to make such a piece wise defined function, which by the way the HP48 will so plot correctly. (Don#t ask here what the HP49G will plot in such cases ;-)) You can put IFTE in an gebraic, and for example define: IFTE(X>0,X,SIN(X)). If you want you can even enter for example F(X)=IFTE(X>0,X,SIN(X)) and press [DEF] to amke a user defined function. You proceed similarly with the step function, just use IFTE(X>0,1,0) or anything else. > so, is there an an way to find the second derivative directly? I've > been finding the first derivative, writing it down on paper (which can > be a pain), then entering it in again to find the second derivative. > As you can see, this leaves lots of room for human error, and it's > ready cost me some points on two exams. Use the stack to do this or write a sml program. A sml program which would look something like: << -> func var << func var gd var gd >> where gd stands for the curly d of the derivative function. ==== i need some help, where can i get a sysev address list for the HP 49G? I so need to get a good (most importantly complete) library tutori. A.C ==== Together with the distribution of emacs110a, IÇve been reading the Emacs.txt file and thereÇs a tutori I donÇt understand. IÇve searched google NG, but reized that I need help here because I must be too stupid to solve the problem myself :-( I do this (copied and pasted from Emacs.txt): ------------------------- 1. Press APPS, select Emacs and press the AsnEmacs key to make a few useful key assignments. In the tutori we will use RightShift & DOWNARROW = RPLED RightShift & RIGHTARROW = RPLCPL LeftShift & LEFTARROW = SDIAG where the & means to hold down the shift key while pressing the arrow key. 2. Start writing a UserRPL program by pressing RightShift <<>>. The builtin Editor starts up. Press RightShift <<>> a few more times to get more nested program delimiters (we will need them later). 3. Switch to the Emacs application menu by pressing RightShift & DOWNARROW. Press the Help key and then OK to see a chart of l Emacs commands. Press any key to go back to the command line. When I do the last thing: holding down RightShift and pressing the down-arrow-key the cursor moves down to the last line, but the emacs application doesnÇt start. When I enter the libs menu and press RPLED the editor starts just fine. IÇve now downloaded the keyman-library but nothing changes. I donÇt understand this. Could anybody please help? Martin J. ==== Have you turned on USER mode? Key assignments are only active when you are in USER mode. Press LeftShift USER (this is above the PHA key) in order to toggle USER mode. The mode is active if you see USR in the second headerline above the stack. - Carsten [...] MJ> When I do the last thing: holding down RightShift and pressing the MJ> down-arrow-key the cursor moves down to the last line, but the emacs MJ> application doesnÇt start. MJ> When I enter the libs menu and press RPLED the editor starts just fine. MJ> IÇve now downloaded the keyman-library but nothing changes. ==== > Have you turned on USER mode? Key assignments are only active when > you are in USER mode. Press LeftShift USER (this is above the PHA > key) in order to toggle USER mode. The mode is active if you see USR > in the second headerline above the stack. IÇve read some documents that says that itÇs possible to override default key-combination presses and that must have confused me :-) Martin J. ==== Mini-chlenge: PRIME DATE PAIRS As has been pointed out in this newsgroup, dates should be programmaticly stored in the form yyyymmdd since they can be easily sorted *and* they are As you know, the only two integers on the number line which are adjacent and prime are 2 and 3. However, there are many consecutive prime date pairs on the date line, for example 20020531 and 20020601, which are adjacent days (when read as dates) and are both prime numbers (when read as 8-digit integers). This differs from ordinary prime pairs which are understood to be primes that differ by 2, such as 11 and 13. A) What are the *next* three prime date pairs (in the future)? B) What are the next three years that have TWO prime date pairs each? C) What are the next three leap-year (Feb/Mar) prime date pairs? D) What are the next three weekend (Sat/Sun) prime date pairs? E) What are the next three prime date pairs that are so prime pairs? F) Same as C above but only for years divisible by 400. G) Is it possible for a year to have THREE prime date pairs? The mini-chlenge this time is to find the answers using User RPL (libraries are lowed) and share your methods and insights with the group. That way, everybody wins. 1 Bonus Point if you were born on a prime date. -Joe- ==== Where can i get a Sysev address list for the HP 49G? I so need a good (most importantly complete) library tutori, so for the 49g. ==== http://holyjoe.net/HP49.htm I think. > Where can i get a Sysev address list for the HP 49G? > I so need a good (most importantly complete) library tutori, so for the 49g. --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). ==== Is there a way on a HP 49G to find l possible sets of (x,y) in a function f: R^2->R (Two variables are needed to produce only one result.) Example: f(x,y)=(x/2)-(x*y^2)+(9*y^2) //Solution in this case: (0,0), (9,3) and (9,-3) Stefan ==== > Example: > f(x,y)=(x/2)-(x*y^2)+(9*y^2) //Solution in this case: (0,0), (9,3) and (9,-3) Stefan I didn't get that... how did you get those solutions? I get: y = -1 and x = 18 or y = 0 and x = 0 or y = 1 and x = 18 -- ==== > Is there a way on a HP 49G to find l possible sets of (x,y) in a > function f: R^2->R > (Two variables are needed to produce only one result.) Example: > f(x,y)=(x/2)-(x*y^2)+(9*y^2) //Solution in this case: (0,0), (9,3) and (9,-3) Stefan I don't think I got that, Stefan. Do you mean to find l integer vues for X,Y, such that f(X,Y) is ways, say 0, or any other constant? ==== Maybe this question makes it clearer/ more precise: How can I find critic points of such a function: f(x,y)=(x/2)-(x*y^2)+(9*y^2) > Is there a way on a HP 49G to find l possible sets of (x,y) in a > function f: R^2->R > (Two variables are needed to produce only one result.) Example: > f(x,y)=(x/2)-(x*y^2)+(9*y^2) > //Solution in this case: (0,0), (9,3) and (9,-3) > Stefan > I don't think I got that, Stefan. Do you mean to find l integer > vues for X,Y, such that f(X,Y) is ways, say 0, or any other > constant? Greetings, > Nick. ==== > Maybe this question makes it clearer/ more precise: > How can I find critic points of such a function: > f(x,y)=(x/2)-(x*y^2)+(9*y^2) The best way is to use the HESS function. In RPN mode: enter your expression then LNAME to get the list of vars then HESS SOLVE Now you have the hessian matrix at level 2 and the list of critic points found. To keep these points somewhere type DUP2 and do SUBST to get the nature of the critic points: this nature is given by the signature of the Hessian matrix at the points, you can get the signature by applying the SYLVESTER function to each matrix (in your example it is not necessary but it could be for a more complex matrix) in the list at level 1. Maybe you should make a little prog << LNAME HESS SOLVE DUP2 SUBST >> ==== Hej Nick! Yes, that's exactly what I mean! (The vues don't necessarily need to be integer vues, though.) The question basicly is, how I can determine the proper vaules of such a functions where it hits (0/0). Sincerely, Stefan > Is there a way on a HP 49G to find l possible sets of (x,y) in a > function f: R^2->R > (Two variables are needed to produce only one result.) > Example: > f(x,y)=(x/2)-(x*y^2)+(9*y^2) > //Solution in this case: (0,0), (9,3) and (9,-3) > Stefan > I don't think I got that, Stefan. Do you mean to find l integer > vues for X,Y, such that f(X,Y) is ways, say 0, or any other > constant? ==== On the 49G, how do I take the results on the stack and use them in the Equation Writer? Is there a way to go between the stack view and EQW and copy and paste? Say though a series of cculations I get a result in the stack of 4.9873. Now I want to use that in a complicated cculation involving square roots and fractions. EQW will let me view the equation as I build it to see if I've put it together correctly. How do I get the number in the stack into the equations in the most efficient manor? How would I work with more than one number in my stack? Another, somewhat related question: Sometime I hit a wrong button and instead of (for example) adding two terms in the EQW, I hit subtract. How do I change the '+' to a '-' ? Using the arrow buttons I end up selecting whole terms and bypassing the operatives between them. ==== > On the 49G, how do I take the results on the stack and use them in the > Equation Writer? Is there a way to go between the stack view and EQW > and copy and paste? Have the stuff on the stack before entering the equation writer, then with the cursor where you want the insertion press the HIST key, and Bob's your uncle. Say though a series of cculations I get a result in the stack of > 4.9873. Now I want to use that in a complicated cculation involving > square roots and fractions. EQW will let me view the equation as I > build it to see if I've put it together correctly. How do I get the > number in the stack into the equations in the most efficient manor? Put it on the stack and use the directions above, or save it with some name and use the name in your equation instead of the number. EVuating or EXPANDing will replace the name with the number. How would I work with more than one number in my stack? The HIST method echos the highlighted stack entry, so you can have as much on the stack as you want. Another, somewhat related question: Sometime I hit a wrong button and > instead of (for example) adding two terms in the EQW, I hit subtract. > How do I change the '+' to a '-' ? Using the arrow buttons I end up > selecting whole terms and bypassing the operatives between them. Use the backerror key to the right of the SYMB key to erase operations and other stuff. ==== > On the 49G, how do I take the results on the stack and use them in the > Equation Writer? Is there a way to go between the stack view and EQW > and copy and paste? I press down to edit the result. Then I press [Rightshift],[begin]; [Rightshift],[rightarrow]; [Rightshift],[end]; [Rightshift],[copy]; Then I open eqw, pressing [eqw]; pressing [Rightshift], [paste] to paste the selected result/equation/whatever into EQW. I donÇt know if thereÇs a faster/more efficient way, but if there is then IÇld so like to know it :-) > How would I work with more than one number in my stack? You select as much as you want to copy using the above mentioned method. > Another, somewhat related question: Sometime I hit a wrong button and > instead of (for example) adding two terms in the EQW, I hit subtract. > How do I change the '+' to a '-' ? Using the arrow buttons I end up > selecting whole terms and bypassing the operatives between them. I press [w] = [+/-]. YouÇre welcome. ==== Does anyone know how emu48ce works with PDA's based on 400Mhz Intel Xsce processor (iPaq 3970, Siemens Loox 600) with Pocket PC 2002 OS? Can I use and store data, software (found at hpcc.org) and work with it like on re HP48/49 cculator? ==== kruno, I have an IPAQ 3970 and run both a HP48 and HP49 emulator on the IPAQ. It runs at the same speed as a norm HP48/HP49. It is an exact reproduction has replaced my use of the actu ccs. Download the following files: http://www.hpcc.org/hp48/pc/emulators/emu48ce.exe http://www.hpcc.org/hp49/pc/emulators/emu-ppc48-49.zip Instl emu48ce.exe. Copy the KML scripts and BMP files from emu-ppc48-49.zip to the emu48ce directory. When starting emu48ce you can now select the ppc48/49 kml scripts. Murray. murrayrGREEN@hp.YELLOWcom > Does anyone know how emu48ce works with PDA's based on 400Mhz Intel Xsce > processor (iPaq 3970, Siemens Loox 600) with Pocket PC 2002 OS? > Can I use and store data, software (found at hpcc.org) and work with it > like on re > HP48/49 cculator? ==== I recently purchased a second hand 48GX and it didn't come with a PC link cable. I have phoned sever stores in my area (Victoria/Vancouver BC) and have had no luck locating one. I live in Canada and I would like to avoid ordering one from the States because of l the excess taxes and duty fees. If anyone knows of a Canadian website that sells them or a store located in Victoria or Vancouver BC could they please let me know. ==== Same situation happened to me too, but I've built one (works like a charm) since. Informations from : http://www.hpcc.org/search.php?query=cable&hp48=1 HTH, Pyerre > I recently purchased a second hand 48GX and it didn't come with a PC link > cable. I have phoned sever stores in my area (Victoria/Vancouver BC) and > have had no luck locating one. I live in Canada and I would like to avoid > ordering one from the States because of l the excess taxes and duty fees. > If anyone knows of a Canadian website that sells them or a store located in > Victoria or Vancouver BC could they please let me know. > ==== Please, see the product HP1897A, in the next address : http://www.directdi.com/us/buyhp/asp/F1633A%23ABA.html Miguel Angel CAPORINI HERK **************************************************************************** *** > I recently purchased a second hand 48GX and it didn't come with a PC link > cable. I have phoned sever stores in my area (Victoria/Vancouver BC) and > have had no luck locating one. I live in Canada and I would like to avoid > ordering one from the States because of l the excess taxes and duty fees. > If anyone knows of a Canadian website that sells them or a store located in > Victoria or Vancouver BC could they please let me know. > ==== X Vacations, perhaps? Suomi is a big country... I'' be back... ==== > X > Vacations, perhaps? Suomi is a big country... > I'' be back... Welcome back! Welcome back! What was up? ==== My old computer failed and I got a new one. It took me a while to build it from spare parts. (MSI Max2+Raid+LAN, 512MB DDR, 2GHz P4) and a new 21 monitor with a Radeon 8500 at 1792*1344, 32-bit, 100Hz AND I have instled W2000+l SPs+Office2000+l SPs+firewl+antipopup+antivirus+ XnView+Acrobat reader+Quicktime+Rre one+Power DVD+Nero+CloneCD+ Shockwave+Flash+Partition Magic+Ghostscript+GView+MS Java+Sun Java+ TVS 2000 (for Finnish TV show arms autometed from web)+VisuRoute+ MSN Explorer+MSN Messanger+WMP 9+WinZip+WinRAR+RegStudio+ A whole lottta drivers+HP cc stuff+etc. After about a hundred reboots everything seems to be zero killed aka 0K X > Vacations, perhaps? Suomi is a big country... > I'' be back... Welcome back! Welcome back! What was up? Greetings, > Nick. ==== > I needed a cheap cc for the office, didn't need anything fancy, > just basic > scientific. I have a HP48+, HP32SII and HP49, and > I'm used to the quity of > the HP48 and HP32. Can't rely say > HP49 and 'quity' in the same sentence. > > Anyway, the I bought a HP6S, as it was very cheap, and I was curious. > It will > You should have choosen a HP20S. > I ready have a HP48GX, a HP48G+, a HP32SII, and purchased the 20S > just because it is a nice little HP cc. > The 6S is not made by HP. :-) Actuly, I have a 20S too. One of the old ones with injection molded keys - I think l the current classic hp's you can still buy have painted keys. :( Pity the 20S isn't RPN. ==== > As for your criticism: > > The equation r = F(n+1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) is simply fse for > >> each n > 1 > > Of course it is! That's why I said as n tends to infinity. With this formulation you would not pass any university examination in > math. So what? Are you here to examine people? Nobody cares if he(she) would pass an examination especily in case you were the prof. > Learning linguistic discipline is a bacis task in math education, > and the most difficult to learn. There speaks the professor who ready is such a linguistic insider that he manages to cl people terrorists if they don't respect him. Mwahahaha! What a comedian! > What could clearly be said should > clearly be said. It's most ways shorter than any confusing text, in > particular in the derivation of the formula under discussion. In my 1st > reply I even accepted your confusing text and tried politely to correct > it. If I'd known your arrogance I wouldn't have done that. The only arrogant person here is you. Colin's answer was politer than you deserve. Your lergy against any no is not Colin's problem. > university professor in math would have uttered such stupid things even > if he is totly drunk. I ways encourage my students in math and info > to use graphic cculators. And many students are happy doing this. So this professor encourages the usage of graphic cculators. And he is so stupid to believe that his students use the cculators because he says so. You know something professor? You could just stand on your head and jump on the ceiling to prevent your students from using graphing cculators. They wouldn't care! It doesn't matter what you tell to them. They will do as *they* want because they don't need a godfather to tell them what to do. So shut that bloody cake hole, you do nothing to make quity of education better. The only thing you do is to make your students laugh behind your back. BTW, as about quity of education in good old Germany, HA! that is a good joke. There has been a study (you know its name, don't you professorchen?), which you never mention, and which have shown how much of this quity has been destroyed by professors like you in the highest education institutes of Germany. Your average mind and is so predictable that it hurts. If I tell you that you are going to answer this posting by correcting my grammars just to show how stupid I am, then you will say that you don't bother answering such stupid postings. If I tell you that you don't bother answering my posting, you'll reply that you'll not disagree about the stupidity of my posting. ways find something to compensate for the fact that you will never reach what you search most, acknowledgement, respect and glory. You are an unimportant job, at an unimportant university, which nobody will know and will citate, until such fossile fachidiots like you, results from a very dark time, vanish. It is not bad to be unimportant. It is stupid to hount importance. But such fossiles like you would never get the difference. You want respect professorchen? That was my respect! Nick. ==== God save me from my friends! though I can't recl it at the moment. Please, Joseph is right and I probably should not have let things get to me in the first place whether I felt justified or not. Let's just let it lie, eh? >>As for your criticism: >>>>>The equation r = F(n+1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) is simply fse for >>>>>>>each n > 1 >>>>>Of course it is! That's why I said as n tends to infinity. >>With this formulation you would not pass any university examination in >>math. > So what? Are you here to examine people? Nobody cares if he(she) would > pass an examination especily in case you were the prof. >>Learning linguistic discipline is a bacis task in math education, >>and the most difficult to learn. > There speaks the professor who ready is such a linguistic insider > that he manages to cl people terrorists if they don't respect > him. Mwahahaha! What a comedian! >>What could clearly be said should >>clearly be said. It's most ways shorter than any confusing text, in >>particular in the derivation of the formula under discussion. In my 1st >>reply I even accepted your confusing text and tried politely to correct >>it. If I'd known your arrogance I wouldn't have done that. > The only arrogant person here is you. Colin's answer was politer than > you deserve. Your lergy against any no is not Colin's problem. >>university professor in math would have uttered such stupid things even >>if he is totly drunk. I ways encourage my students in math and info >>to use graphic cculators. And many students are happy doing this. > So this professor encourages the usage of graphic cculators. And > he is so stupid to believe that his students use the cculators > because he says so. You know something professor? You could just > stand on your head and jump on the ceiling to prevent your students > from using graphing cculators. They wouldn't care! It doesn't matter > what you tell to them. They will do as *they* want because they don't > need a godfather to tell them what to do. So shut that bloody cake > hole, you do nothing to make quity of education better. The only > thing you do is to make your students laugh behind your back. > BTW, as about quity of education in good old Germany, HA! that is > a good joke. There has been a study (you know its name, don't you > professorchen?), which you never mention, and which have shown how > much of this quity has been destroyed by professors like you in the > highest education institutes of Germany. Your average mind and is so predictable that it hurts. If I tell you > that you are going to answer this posting by correcting my grammars > just to show how stupid I am, then you will say that you don't bother > answering such stupid postings. If I tell you that you don't bother > answering my posting, you'll reply that you'll not disagree about the > stupidity of my posting. ways find something to compensate for the > fact that you will never reach what you search most, acknowledgement, > respect and glory. You are an unimportant job, at an unimportant > university, which nobody will know and will citate, until such fossile > fachidiots like you, results from a very dark time, vanish. It is not > bad to be unimportant. It is stupid to hount importance. But such > fossiles like you would never get the difference. You want respect professorchen? That was my respect! > Nick. ==== Solidarity of the empty barrels :-) ==== Solidarity of the empty barrels :-) Oh! It ended! ??? Just when it was tastefully Off Topic ;-) PS: It's nice to be back and find out that you have l learned good manners, respect for each other, and a naturly polite tongue l this while I was away...;-) ;-) ;-) ==== REMINDER: The primary go of the mini chlenges on comp.sys.hp48 is FUN, not etern truth or technic perfection. The newsgroup needs no moderator this in mind in future mini chlenges. The winners of this contest are: 1st Place: Jonathan Busby for the 30-byte solution: << 2 / DUP SQ ROT + SQRT + >> It works on both HP48 and HP49, and returns an exact solution on the HP49 in exact mode. 2nd Place: Wolfgang Rautenberg for the 28-byte solution: << -1 UNROT ->V3 PROOT 2 GET >> This only returns an approximate answer, and requires the inputs to be in backwards order, but it's still elegant. Fixing the code to take the inputs in correct order is left as an exercise for the student. 3rd Place: Wolfgang again, for the idea of using EGVL, which he didn't code but which could be done something like this: << 1 0 { 2 2 } ->ARRY EGVL 2 GET >> This, like Jonathan's program, returns exact solutions on the 49G in exact mode, but this one seems to have the benefit of returning answers in simplified form, and the drawbacks of being slower and requiring the inputs to be in backwards order. Two unfinished business items: is: Because that's what Pell started it with. so because, as indicated in the origin post in this thread, that's what you get if you start with 0 1, just like the Fibonacci sequence. (2) Colin & Wolfgang: shake hands and play nice. You're both highly vued members of the comp.sys.hp48 community, but don't let your eG0BEEP. ;-) -Joe- ==== > The winners of this contest are: > 1st Place: Jonathan Busby for the 30-byte solution: > << 2 / DUP SQ ROT + SQRT + > 2nd Place: Wolfgang Rautenberg for the 28-byte solution: > << -1 UNROT ->V3 PROOT 2 GET > 3rd Place: Wolfgang again, for the idea of using EGVL, which he didn't code > but which could be done something like this: > << 1 0 { 2 2 } ->ARRY EGVL 2 GET >> One has generly to be careful with the eigenvue command EGVL because it works in exact mode only if the characteristic polynomi of the matrix made by ->ARRY is factorizable in exact mode. We are lucky in our situation since here this polynomi is x^2 -bx -a, with non-negative integers a,b. Let me add another sml chlenge to the one of JKH. I start here with any non-negative integers f(0), f(1) and the recursion formula (*) f(n+2)= a*f(n) + b*f(n+1) (a,b Gaussean integers). For simplicity, we restrict ourself to the example a=i, b=1, with i=sqrt(-1), that is, f obeys f(n+2)= f(n) + i*f(n+1). If the limes of the sequence [f(n+1)/f(n)] exist in the complex plane then it necessarily is a root of x^2-ix-1 = 0. Clearly, this are the conjugate complex numbers (-i+sqrt(3))/2 and (i+sqrt(3))/2. The question is does lim [f(n+1)/f(n)] rely exist for some or perhaps for any Gaussean vues f(0),f(1), and which of the two roots is then the limes? A proof by any CAS doesn't count (and hardly exist). Winner will be the first who comes up with elegant and precise arguments. PS. Equations of the form (*) play a role in anytic number theory. And the famous solution (Matijacevic 1970) of an equly famous problem (the Fibonacci's sequence and its properties: Is there an gorithmic procedure for deciding whether any given Diophantine equation is solvable or not? The answer was no! This is a basic result in modern recursion theory and elswhere: Diophantine equations can be as complex as they could be, each recursively enumerable set of numbers is the solution set of some Diophantine equation. Perhaps somebody finds ad hoc a Diophatine equation whose solutions are just l primes. ==== i'd like to ask why l people in this group seem to think that the RPN mode is better than gebraic mode. i've played with the RPN mode and i think it's pretty good for short simple cculations but can't understand how it could be better in more complex cculations: - when doing a complex cculation, one can easily forget what was the last entry and in RPN mode he has no visu way to learn what entry to continue from - one must at first anyze the formula and then enter its parts as to get round unability to use parentheses - the programs written in RPN mode tend to be somewhat hard to read as l modern programming is done in gebraic mode i know there must be something to RPN mode - i just haven't come across an explanation why - would you please enlighten me? thanks in advance, -- fuf ==== > i'd like to ask why l people in this group seem to think that the RPN > mode is better than gebraic mode. > i've played with the RPN mode and i think it's pretty good for short > simple cculations but can't understand how it could be better in more > complex cculations: > RPN is much better from complex cculations than it is for short ones. Very often you will have cculations where portions are re-used in other cculations. It is VERY easy to cculate these, and duplicate them onto the stack for later re-use in RPN. It is nearly impossible to do that in g. (I'm ignoring STO/RCL work-arounds.) Without needing brackets, RPN takes a lot less space and key strokes. It is so MUCH easier to check at intermediate steps. g basicly has an l or nothing structure..unless you code to produce the intermediate result..which RPN ways has available.. Years ago I did some stuff with an HP67 using (abusing!) 256 steps of program space. The same cculations could not be stuffed into the 512 steps of space on an gebraic TI cculator. Personly, I can only do 2 operations in a row on a g machine... then I have to start re-entering stuff...I have NEVER been able to figure out g ccs. Geoff ==== - when doing a complex cculation, one can easily forget what was > the last entry and in RPN mode he has no visu way to learn what > entry to continue from > - one must at first anyze the formula and then enter its parts as > to get round unability to use parentheses I enter the formula from the beginning to the end and only pay attention to ^, *, + I don't have to anyze it. If I anyzed the formula, this way of entering the Formula gives me the opportunity of controlling the input for a second time. Especily in complex cculations it's necessary to double check the input. In addition it's easily possible to use interim results and you can divide your result in parts by meanings as p.e. rotation, accelleration, longitudin movement and so on. > - the programs written in RPN mode tend to be somewhat hard to read > as l modern programming is done in gebraic mode right, but this is not a PC where only the result is interesting. It's a handheld cculator. For handling masses of data with an ready developed gorithm I write a program or use excel or similiar Using the stack and RPN you can watch your formula develop, you get a feeling for the dimension of the parts of your formula. you can decide which part of it is the most important and where sml mistakes make the biggest difference. In my opinion the work with stack und RPN is the ide way for control and flexible work with formulas and results and there is much more ... Greetings Stefan PS: I think I belong to those peolpe who get 42 when they add 4 and 2 on a norm cculator :-)) ==== RPN, where he proposed that the CC mode of the HP-71B was better than RPN. Joe, if you have this in text format, perhaps you could post it to the group? RPN is better - uses fewer keystrokes - never work with more than 2 numbers at a time, etc. It does get complicated when you have lots of levels of division because you have to keep pushing previous results higher into the stack (which is harder on a 4-level stack machine, e.g. HP-12c, etc. than the 48/49). I've seen college students for years struggle with gebraic machines that have parentheses. They end up using more levels than required. Why do you think that TI themselves made their TI-30 (yes, the origin LED model) capable of handling 4 pending operations but with 15 levels of parentheses! Gene -- * These statements and opinions are mine one and do not reflect my employer's views. * > > - when doing a complex cculation, one can easily forget what was > the last entry and in RPN mode he has no visu way to learn what > entry to continue from > - one must at first anyze the formula and then enter its parts as > to get round unability to use parentheses I enter the formula from the beginning to the end and only pay > attention to ^, *, + > I don't have to anyze it. If I anyzed the formula, this way of entering the Formula gives me > the opportunity of controlling the input for a second time. Especily in complex cculations it's necessary to double check the > input. In addition it's easily possible to use interim results and you can > divide your result in parts by meanings as p.e. rotation, > accelleration, longitudin movement and so on. > - the programs written in RPN mode tend to be somewhat hard to read > as l modern programming is done in gebraic mode right, but this is not a PC where only the result is interesting. It's a handheld cculator. For handling masses of data with an ready developed gorithm I write > a program or use excel or similiar Using the stack and RPN you can watch your formula develop, you get a > feeling for the dimension of the parts of your formula. you can decide > which part of it is the most important and where sml mistakes make > the biggest difference. In my opinion the work with stack und RPN is the ide way for control > and flexible work with formulas and results and there is much more ... > Greetings Stefan PS: > I think I belong to those peolpe who get 42 when they add 4 and 2 on a > norm cculator :-)) ==== When I taught cculator use to high schoolers (many ywars ago), they liked RPN because it mimicked the pencil-and-paper order of operations. Programs in RPN seem in gener to take about hf as many keystrokes as programs in gebraic. ==== > i'd like to ask why l people in this group seem to think that the RPN > mode is better than gebraic mode. > - when doing a complex cculation, one can easily forget what was > the last entry and in RPN mode he has no visu way to learn what > entry to continue from Most gebraic machines have this same problem. But I definitely lose track when entering formulae into gebraic machines. > - one must at first anyze the formula and then enter its parts as > to get round unability to use parentheses One does? I've never had to do this. You just enter it as you would evuate it if using paper and pencil. > - the programs written in RPN mode tend to be somewhat hard to read > as l modern programming is done in gebraic mode No. Re programming is done using languages such as C, Perl, Fortran, etc. (:-). Face it, cculators have lots of problems when it comes to programming, and the choice of modes doesn't rely affect things that much. However, both RPN and RPL have the advantage that they are soothly extensible and so programming can be grafted onto basic cculations. For example, I don't consider this to be a particularly readable program: if(s(DAYS),DAYS,if(s(x360D),x360D,x365D))+0*TODAY*l(TODAY,CDATE)} (It does date arithmetic on an HP27S/17B/17BII/19B/19BII solver.) > i know there must be something to RPN mode - i just haven't come across > an explanation why - would you please enlighten me? Probably, whatever mode you learned first is what is easy and obvious. Craig ==== Is it possible, using KeyMan, to assign single press & double click & long press to the same key? Something like: if double do 1 else if long do 2 else do 3 ?? ==== I have an HP-48GX with a crack in the LCD screen. Otherwise everything works fine. Can anyone tell me if it can be fixed or even if it would be worth it? If not does anyone have any ideas as to what ==== > As I'm not an IP expert, is there a way how to surf without using DNS, > but > not offline. For example I want to connect to my comp just by using IP > address. This is done : with version 0.3-2701, 10.11.12.13 RESOLV returns > #A0B0C0Dh as expected, so that surfing with IPs should be possible. > Great ! I indeed thought about that problem, without having time to solve it myself. By the way, the 0.06 version of Navigator will very soon be released ! Bye, Yoann. ==== Hlo zusammen, kennt jemand ein deutsches Buch .9fber System RPL. Ok es muss nicht unbedingt deutsch sein, aber f.9fr Einsteiger. Mit User RPL kenn ich mich schon ganz gut aus. Da die Programme jedoch sehr langsam sind, w.9frde ich gern meine Programme in System RPL schreiben. ==== kennt jemand ein deutsches Buch .9fber System RPL. Ok es muss nicht > unbedingt deutsch sein, aber f.9fr Einsteiger. Mit User RPL kenn ich > mich schon ganz gut aus. Da die Programme jedoch sehr langsam sind, > w.9frde ich gern meine Programme in System RPL schreiben. > www.hpcc.org , ==== Wrong newsgroup. For things like that, please use the classified ads section of www.hpmuseum.org Raymond Superman schrieb im Newsbeitrag > HP41CX (not working) plus FA-2 cassette adaptor interface for auction: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2304774436 > > Happy Bidding ! > Corrction this should be : FA: HP41CX(not working) with 2 manus............though the link is right. ==== > You did not definitely say YES, I want a keymap switcher. So > let's see whether some other people will be interested in that. X YES, I want a keymap switcher ==== > Newbie question, but is it possible to transfer pictures (.bmp) to > HP49G and then watch (without colors ofcourse..)them. Or is there some > kind of programm that i can draw something and then watch it on 49? > tnx! Yes, there are many such tools! Pick your favorite! :-) > http://www.hpcc.org/hp49/graphics/graysce/ -Joe- > AND the PC program to convert to GROB & GREY http://www.xnview.com/ ==== > hi, the ez way is to press EQW and enter what ever you want, then hit enter my two pezs You can do even do EQW _inside_ the MTRW !! Try it out! > > > In gebraic mode, I can enter fractions into a matrix, like 2/3. In RPN > > mode I have not found a way to do this. To enter 2/3 I have to enter > > 0.6666666 etc. Does anyone know how (or if) I can enter fractions into a > > matrix when I am working in RPN mode? > I usuly do 2 3 / ENTER > --Andrew Huey > You can so do '2/3' ENTER > You can do gebraic entry provided you enclose the > gebraic in tick marks as shown, or you can enter things > using RPN entry mode, in each case followed by ENTER. > You can so key in sever entries in either format before > pressing the enter key and the HP will parse them correctly. ==== > Bad Guy schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I've a problem when I try to edit a matrix including fractions. > For example, I run Matrix Editing Mode. I enter the vue 1/2, I mean I > type '1/2'. And then, I got an error Invid Array Element. > I cant believe that my HP48 cant support fraction in Matrix Mode. > What sould I do ? > RTFM;-) The built-in Matrix editor can't handle expressions. > Take a look at www.hpcc.org for Matrix editor ternatives. Buy a HP 49G !!! ==== I would use CST menu instead... key and make run as a temporary menu. One of my programs is << 0 > TMENU >> to get me back to the menu I was using when I pressed the key > to get to this one. It works great except for one thing, when you > press it twice ( in other words while you're looking at the menu I > assigned to the key ) that now becomes the last menu and the << 0 > TMENU >> then doesn't take you anywhere. Is there a way to cure this? > ==== X > My New Year's wish (and maybe many other's) is for some company, > somewhere in the world to develop a programmable RPN cculator to > continue where HP has left off. In my mind, the HP48/49 User-RPL and > System-RPL languages are the apex of programming logic and utility, > the 41/42/32 keystroke logic, a very close second best. X Your wish is granted! HP has _not_ dropped the Saturn-line (yet:) PS: Buy as you still can, no more 49G in 2004 or...??? ==== Nice thing that ZEROS. It will give a llist of { answers } only While SOLVE (or SOLVEVX) gives the { variable=answer} type list of solutions. I prefer using pha for trigs, (pha is the Nick's greek a) so the ASSUME is ways on (no need to 'X' UNASSUME) 'pha>=2*pi' ASSUME 'pha<=0' ASSUME > I just finished college trig and had the same question awhile back. Use the > ASSUME command to limit the answers. For your example it would look like > this - 'x>=0' > ASSUME > 'X<=2pi > ASSUME > 'sin(x)=1/2' > 'x' > ZERO (I use ZERO instead of SOLVEX, because in soft menu SOLVEX and SOLVE > look the same. SOLVEX should work too) > HP49 returns {5pi/6 pi/6} Make sure Numeric and Approx are unchecked in CAS mode. Use UNASSUME to > clear the X vues. And if I remember correctly ASSUME doesn't work > correctly with > and < (even though the online help for ASSUME uses > X>0 in the example). ways use >= and <=. And my fin tip - there is > no key for ASSUME or UNASSUME so you need to assign them to a user defined > key. Hope this helps. Dave > This may be a rely stupid question, but please do help me out :) > How do you make a HP 49G give solutions for simple trig equations such as > sin(x) = 1/2 for x where 0 <= x <= 2pi ? > Is it possible for it to give me the solutions x = pi/6 , x = 5pi/6 > without > graphing? > > I apologize once again if my question is obtuse to you. > > -- > ==== Nice thing that ZEROS. It will give a llist of { answers } only > While SOLVE (or SOLVEVX) > gives the { variable=answer} type list of solutions. > I prefer using pha for trigs, (pha is the Nick's greek a) > so the ASSUME is ways on (no need to 'X' UNASSUME) > 'pha>=2*pi' ASSUME > 'pha<=0' ASSUME That's an intuitive idea. How long does the assumption stay on? If it gets erased during a warm boot, then I should put it in the STARTUP var... but I have no knowledge of how to exactly use that variable yet. I guess I just put in the program << 'pha=3' ASSUME >> for example, and then store it to STARTUP. -- ==== > Now one thing that I find funny is this: > I put in the restrictions 0 <= x <= 2pi and then > 'COS(2X)+1' > SOLVEX > and it gives me: {X=3pi/2 X=pi/2 X=pi/2 X=3pi/2} > Is the HP49 not smart enough to eliminate equ solutions? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that your ASSUME limitation includes two rounds for COS(2X) and therefore the double solutions, which is smart enough for the cc.... ;-) > Yeah, I noticed the same thing, but at the time I was so happy that the hp49 > gave me any correct answers that I rely didn't care about the repeated > answers. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can explain this > phenomenon. (Monsieur Bernard, s'il vous pla.94t. :-) ) ==== X > As for increasing ram, this unfortunatly will not help as the software is > not design to handle more RAM or Flash... > I'm sorry to here that, I thought that the system could handle FFF banks of 128KB. That would give us about dour 41-like slots for maximum of 128MB flash card on each - or maybe just another 2MB flash on top of the current one? There are some new extra low power flash ROM, size 8MB. BUT We are not going to get a HP 49GX :-( ==== > Why not make the 8M Byte flash rom switchable in banks of 2 MBytes > with an extern switch? This could work, but would require extra soft written in order for the system to take into account the fact that libs can apear and disepear at any time. In addition, the system banks must be ways visible... I would say that it is feasable with just a little bit of electronic... Just an I D > Stan >X >> As for increasing ram, this unfortunatly will not help as the software is >> not design to handle more RAM or Flash... >I'm sorry to here that, >I thought that the system could handle FFF banks of 128KB. >That would give us about dour 41-like slots for maximum of 128MB >flash card on each - or maybe just another 2MB flash on top of the current >one? >There are some new extra low power flash ROM, size 8MB. >BUT >We are not going to get a HP 49GX >:-( > ==== X > Luck is with the daring. Anyway, luck or not luck, for me it is > secret priviledges for the insiders, while it seems to be possible for > any norm user to use them safely. Is there any clear distiction Somehow reminds me of governments, which declare so many things X Nope! Just as with the HP 41 series Synthetic Programming you are doing HP 4x series Synthetic Programming you do things that are not planned ahead, but will sometimes work. Nobody is keeping any secrects but your voyage is to boldly go to the unknown parts of the v'ger ROM-space-continuum. Will you come back with a Synthetic Objects Marathon? PS: Don't blame the crew, they have nothing to do with your discoveries. AND: yes - it is dangerous - becuase nobody knows what happens next. PPS: Have you ever tryed to hack a 2D matrix into a 3D? It's fun... (do back up your things to Flash 1st) ==== X > What's annoying or misleading about the marathons? That's he's doing > l this work for a dead cculator? The HP 4x line is not dead ! Why do you come here to spread lies? I don't write to TI group and say TI 92 is dead because of V200... ==== > If you go to my website at http://www.hphomeview.com and look on my Misc > aplets page you'll find a new aplet (well a library actuly) cled > Library L1540. This adds a whole heap of commands to the 39G which, > amongst other things, do conversions. Colin, thanks for your link... Actuly I had bumped into your > homepage before when checking out the cculator for reviews... but X > I am truly debating returning this and getting an HP48G+ instead. I would buy a HP 49G instead! You will be soon missing Symbolic Matrices, a better CAS than the 40G has and a huge FlashRAM for your programs and 3rd party libraries. It even has both RPN and gebraic modes, but I would use RPN stack and gbraic expressions, like: '(a+b)*c' The variable names can be long and even contain a dot. Like 'msbios.dos' or 'do.this.on.your.dos.machine', but be aware: A) Big and sml letters are different. B) If you ever change to comma (,) as the decim point, your lost with (.) C) You may even use different styles in names by using S~N Hacker Tool To my opinion the RPL is much easier to program than any Aplets (whether in the HP 39-39-40 or in Java :) ==== > the HP49 asks me if i want to switch to rad and turn num mode off > > and when its done i ways have to set it back. > did i do something wrong ? > No, that's just the way HP decided to do things. > > Some ways to de with it: > Set modes & flags the way you want, then: > HOME RCLF 'MYFLAGS' STO > << MYFLAGS STOF >> 'MF' STO > Then, whenever you want to recover your own preferred mode > settings, just type MF (or assign 'MF' to a keyboard location). > You might as well set flag -120 before storing your preferred flags > as above, which will eliminate most of the diog boxes which > would otherwise pop up (except for the purge variable diog). AND one can put that program in betaENTER (beta=Nick's greek b) and set the Vectored ENTER flag << My.Flags STOF DROP >> 'betaENTER' STO Warning: Mat slow your c a bit. > Another approach, which may be most useful in programs: > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3CB94E4C.AB177E90%40miu.edu > [r->] [OFF] > And the commands PUSH POP offer yet another possibility. > PUSH saves your flags (and current working directory), and POP re-stores them again. Greetings, > Nick. ==== 1) What is a density curve? 2) << -> n << n RAND * IP 1. + n >> DROP >> 'nRAND' STO { } 1. 150. START 10. nRAND + NEXT > I'm taking a beginning Statistics course that is equivent to a college > survey class. Of course, everything is geared towards the Ti-83. I > downloaded a couple of Stats programs (including Stats Pro 49), but I find > these apply mostly to inferenti statistics, and I'm doing descriptive > statistics right now. 1). Does anyone know if the 49G will be able to sketch a density curve from > a set of data or from a histogram? > 2). I know this is possible. But what command lets the cculator generate > a series of random numbers (say 150 random numbers between 1 and 10)? > ==== > , > hi, > is there anyway to make the cculator simplify ration expressions > in which there has been approximate cculations? in the same way, can > it just don't write a numers which is 0.000E0 ? > i'm using hp49G > thanks a lot If you use XQ or ->Q or ->Qpi, you will get an exact > expression which can be simplified. This works particularly > well when l the numbers in your expression are integers in > approximate form. AND then there is the EPSX0 command which looks at your CASDIR to find your eps(ilon) threshold to turn sml numbers to zeros. ==== I recently purchased a used 48GX that's in 'like new' condition and the guy I bought it from said he bought it a only a year ago. However I was looking at a website that sold these cculators and noticed that it said they carried the newer black on grey display My screen appears to be a dark blue on green color so I'm wondering if my cc is actuly a lot older than what the guy told me. Could someone please clarify how new these 'newer' models actuly are and is there an improvement of visibility that comes with them as well? -Adrian ==== My exams are gonna start in one week an i want some information. 1)How can i make complex operations? 2)What is the easiest mode to do it?In RPN or in gebric mode? 3)How can i switch the complex mode?e.g. 5+8i=9,433981132<57.99461679Á 4)How can I cculate the Det of a matrix with variables and numbers? sorry for my English! ==== > 1. Suppose you are in the filer in a port. A HOME backup in this port is > a directory which can be entered with RightArrow, as can every backup of > a directory. While the filer normly doesn't show the hidden directory, > in a HOME backup it is seen at the very end of the file listing. DO NOT > ENTER IT WITH RIGHTARROW, YOU RISK A TTRM. Playing with variables in the hidden directory from HOME has been removed as it will result in a TTRM. However, this is not the case in a backup. You can safely enter in the null-name directory without risking a memory loss. 2. While the ARCHIVE command accepts long port names (which may contain > a HOME backup under the name > 2:HOME27.2.03 8:15 > say, but one cannot RESTORE it. Even if the time is omitted in which > date format. By the way, this is a good example of the usefullness of I don't see any reasons why it wouldn't accept long names.. planned for ROM 19-7 is much easier customizable by those familiar with > SysRPL but it has still the bug under 1. Moreover, RightArrow does not > drive into a library's command menu anymore. Is this intended? so the Did you report the bug in bugs.hpcc.org. ==== > 1. Suppose you are in the filer in a port. A HOME backup in this port is > a directory which can be entered with RightArrow, as can every backup of > a directory. While the filer normly doesn't show the hidden directory, > in a HOME backup it is seen at the very end of the file listing. > Playing with variables in the hidden directory from HOME has been removed as > it will result in a TTRM. However, this is not the case in a backup. You can > safely enter in the null-name directory without risking a memory loss. Rightarrow in a HOME backup definitely ends up in a warmstart in ROM 19-6 (I once got a TTRM). The same in the filer planned for ROM 19-7 ... Other null-names, e.g., the ones created by the hiding tools in my filers, cause no problems. > 2. While the ARCHIVE command accepts long port names (which may contain > I don't see any reasons why it wouldn't accept long names.. You're right, if the tagged long name is on the stack, it works. But in an involved browser inside the filer one has seemingly to use a COLA in front of the RESTORE command which I did now and it works :-). That simplyfies a lot. In the filer versions tomorrow, a HOME backup name will probably even contain the time of creation. But only the VAR-switcher will show the time of creation since the name will be a bit too long :-) supports me a little in the difficult filer tool but doesn't post in this NG anymore. > Did you report the bug in bugs.hpcc.org. No I didn't, don't know how to operate it :-) ==== > (I once got a TTRM). The same in the filer planned for ROM 19-7 ... > Other null-names, e.g., the ones created by the hiding tools in my > filers, cause no problems. I'll have a look into that. > You're right, if the tagged long name is on the stack, it works. But in > an involved browser inside the filer one has seemingly to use a COLA in > front of the RESTORE command which I did now and it works :-). That's weird.. > Did you report the bug in bugs.hpcc.org. No I didn't, don't know how to operate it :-) Go to this web site, create an account, then post a bug.. You can even be notified whenever the status of a bug is changed and it's the perfect way not to loose any bug ==== Agreed. It's generly advisable to use standardized date and time formats. ISO 8601 is the choice to be taken to end this mess of different formats for every language: YYYY-MM-DD is the gener pattern. Just google for iso 8601 and you'll find the specs without having to pay a hundred bucks for the ISO standard. Yours, Markus >> 2:HOME27.2.03 8:15 > *and* sorting by name will give more meaningful results. Greetings > Thomas > ==== > YYYY-MM-DD is the gener pattern. That may be useful for intern communication but not for a norm user who, IMHO, wants to read the date in the form he likes. My last filer versions solved the problem. A HOME backup when created inside the filer the indicated day. What do you want else? With a little datum arithmetic I could order the HOME backups according to date. But this would be a tot exaggeration. Even the most advanced user will have at most 2 or 3 HOME backups in a given port and one has them closely together with the filer sorting by type. The same convention is applied in creating Port0 backups in the other ports. l this backup management is done with the same multifunction key in a choose box ready presented here. ==== >>YYYY-MM-DD is the gener pattern. > > That may be useful for intern communication but not for a norm > user who, IMHO, wants to read the date in the form he likes. [..] > With a little datum arithmetic I could order the HOME backups > according to date. But this would be a tot exaggeration. [..] That's exactly my point. It's not worth it to write date sorting for every loce. Just switch to the ready sorted date. That pattern follows the gener scheme for arabic numers, where the leftmost digit is the most significant. It's definitely easier for people to learn just one clean and logic date format than to have a dozen formats in mind and having to convert every time they read a message from a foreigner (which some of us do once in a while, right?-). Then, there's no need for distinction between intern and user formatting. And it was not a criticism of your efforts, but a gener comment on date formats and on how to make life easier by adhering to reasonably simple standards. Just my 2 cents. Markus ==== > How do u solve a system of linear equations on the HP49G? I don't > understand the entry of the coefficients through matrices. EX. > -3X+6Y=4 > 2X+Y=4 > ( I know the answer to this is obvious but it is just an example!) Thanxs in Advance CID Thanxs Everyone I was able to try l of your solutions and find one that was quick and easy! THANXS again!! CID ==== I assume you are using an HP49G. You must be in radians and exact mode (not approximate) to get 0 and not a very sml number. You can not do this with an HP48G out of the box. !Demeter! ==== At this point each time i put an integer on stack I should get 0 but this is > what i rely get: > 1 -65.814E-15 > 2 65.814E-15 > 3 -65.814E-15 > 4 3.2489E-12 > 5 -3.2489E-12 > ..... > Please help me solving this problem. (I get the same wrong result if I put > the cculator in RAD mode and try to cculate sin(2*pi)....) The answers aren't wrong, they're just unexpected results, as the manus say. When you cculate with pi, you can only get zero if you use pi with an infinite number of decim places. For that, we'll have to wait for the fabled HP50 - it has infinite RAM. :-) You can either accept the near-zero results, or you can write a test to check the result and substitute zero if the magnitude is below some arbitrary vue. You know, this happens so often, I'm surprised HP didn't supply a flag for rounding off sml answers. QUESTION #2 > Some friends of mine told me that in gebra48 there are some usefull > commands like ASIM,ADIV and similar: what they rely do? G48 is a must-have program for the HP48. It rely brings it to life. The commands like ADIV, ASUB, etc, are the usu divide, subtract, etc, optimized for gebraic manipulations. ASIM is like SIMPLIFY on the HP49. so, G48 v4 has a number of modules such as INTG (better integration than the 48 one) and Longfloat (arbitrary precision, but as, not infinity). It's one of those Get it! programs. Bill ==== > I have an mint condition, UNUSED, out of the box HP49G and separate > Connectivity Kit and l documentation ong with the origin packing FOR > SE. This may be a last chance thing as it is no longer available at HP. Fse information. > Will ship only to US. I purchased this because it was the only RPN cculator left besides the 12C > but after reading the manu, I reized it would take too much of my time > to become proficient at. You can respond here with information that will low me to contact you > directly. > Barry Shaklan, M.D. ==== into the OS and not taking up a 128KB RAM in slot 1. Build-in 128KB extra RAM ready MERGEd to the main RAM. Build-in 256 RAM module in (intern) slot 1. Build-in 1MB Flash RAM (no need for batteries) in slot 2. Build-in G49/Erable49 as CAS (with enhancements) Build-in ... this could go on forever. PS: I most forgot: MASD in ROM, Hacker tools in ROM, ... > I miss the pretty-view for matrix in MK :-( Yes, me too. And some little things more of the Java's pretty print. But > this is the solution: http://www.hpcc.org/hp48/apps/mk/agrob4mk.zip > I hope this was as useful for you as it is for me. > ==== > into the OS and not taking up a 128KB RAM in slot 1. > Build-in 128KB extra RAM ready MERGEd to the main RAM. > Build-in 256 RAM module in (intern) slot 1. > Build-in 1MB Flash RAM (no need for batteries) in slot 2. > Build-in G49/Erable49 as CAS (with enhancements) > Build-in ... this could go on forever. > PS: I most forgot: MASD in ROM, Hacker tools in ROM, ... If only HP would combine l this with some decent hardware... -- Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== X > Finly, maybe there's a way of enforcing a 'user mode' of operation so > that unprivilaged apps could be limited somehow. This is obviosly > difficult without direct support of this feature by the Saturn but > perhapse the use of some API that encapsulates certain sensitive > operations and manages permissions could be encouraged by developers > of newOS programs. Sml note: use word developer instead of developers So nobody but you develope newOS programs? ==== X > Find the CONVERT command (not the convert button) and then you get: X That gave me an idea of a new shift-hold: convert doing CONVERT !!! Maybe this should go to ROM 1.19-7 ?! ==== > Yes, it does, but as the cculation time is so long, the time to > display the beast should be of minor importance. Or am I wrong here? I doubt you're wrong :) I was curious because on my ti89 something > like 299! (This is the maximum you can do with a factori) will take > about two seconds to cculate but another 12 seconds to display. I > have written a routine in 68k assembly that can convert the result of > 299! to text in about a third of a second. Anyways I'm impressed the 49g can do 9999! Maybe you should buy a HP 49G ??? :-D ==== > ... Is there any way to 'word wrap' the line in the text viewer? The following is a very fast argument protected string viewer for very long strings (like 3.1415... or the 9999! string) which do not contain linebreaks (i.e. newline characters). It displays pi to 500 decims in less than .3 sec in full screen display which can nicely be scrolled verticly. Each filled line has 32 characters. 50 bytes, CRC ACB6h. :: DUPTYPECSTR? NcaseTYPEERR NULL$SWAP BEGIN DUPONE BINT32 SUB$ NEWLINE$&$ ROTSWAP !append$SWAP BINT33 LAST$ DUPNULL$? UNTIL DROPFSE SWAP ViewStrObject DROP ; It works for any strings, but may insert some addition linebreaks. If PS. This is a good and not too difficult example for those who want to learn SysRPL. Just put in a xHT right after BEGIN and another one just after UNTIL, because these two commands affect the return stack. When reaching UNTIL in debugging, press CONT ! ==== > > > P.S. BTW, how long did the cculation of 9999! take on the > > > cculator? > I cculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35 minutes > = 2.8556hours! > Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because > XPON doesn't > work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)? Ivan, is that a turbo charged HP40? Greetings, > Nick. The speed is ok: On my 40G it took 10320.7 seconds (2h 52min) to get the result. Unfortunately, up to now I didn't find an easy way to show the number of digits either... Axel ==== > Unfortunately, up to now I didn't find an easy way to show the number > of digits either... After getting the integer in the EQW, press HOME and [INFO]. Now you know the object's size. The number of digits is: ( Size * 2 ) - 11 HPCC #1046 ==== >> I wish I had a printer to pring the result. Is there anyway to >> 'word wrap' the line in the text viewer? Only thing I can think of: > << ->STR > -> str wordwrapstr > << > WHILE > str SIZE 30 > @Number of chars per line = 30. Change as you > wish. > REPEAT > 'wordwrapstr' > str 1 30 SUB STO+ > 'wordwrapstr' > > STO+ @Add new line char num 10 > str 31 OVER SIZE SUB > 'str' STO > END > wordwrapstr str + Hey this is kind of neat. I might use it :) -- ==== >> I was wondering how mine could have taken 30 something hours when the >> re 49g >> did within 24 hours. > Even 24 hours are too much compared to the 3 hours that ivan reported. > Is the HP40 so much faster? By within 24 hours I meant that it did it any time from 0 hours to 24 hours. I am still unsure of exactly how long it took. I would assume it would be equ to or less than your result. I do not want to waste batteries like this, though, I got an exam today :) -- ==== In message , Nick >Oh, and about number of digits, ->STR SIZE could work. No strings and therefore no string commands on the 39 and 40. -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== > In message , Nick >Oh, and about number of digits, ->STR SIZE could work. No strings and therefore no string commands on the 39 and 40. > What? Oh no! Then the only thing I can think of is sum(log(n),n=1,9999). Or do these ccs have so no sums? ==== >> > P.S. BTW, how long did the cculation of 9999! take on the >> > cculator? > I cculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35 minutes >= 2.8556hours! > Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because > XPON doesn't > work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)? > Look into logarithms. Logarithm returns the number of zeros, but how to get the exact number of digits. In numeric mode hp40g return 500 for log(9999!) SIZE and XPON don't work the right way!!? ==== Logarithm returns the number of zeros, but how to get the exact number of > digits. > No it doesnt. floor(log(x))+1 gives the number of digits in base 10. In numeric mode hp40g return 500 for log(9999!) > If you knew more, you'd so know that log(a*b)=log(a)+log(b). Now just sum up log(1)+log(2)+...+log(9999) = log(9999!). ==== X > Perhaps I'm very wrong but I'm not interested in the 41: too much features > are option, then buy functions and memory modules. so the > batteries...Just seeing the Compare features of the hp museum I prefer the > 42. I find my HP 41CX filled with options (The FX & TIME modules + extras) and the HP-IL modele lows me to back-up and restore programs and data from the HP Digit Cassette Drive (or even a battery operated floppy drive). The HP 42S, with more functionity and speeeed - has no I/O for restore. ==== X > [OT] [EB] [RO] [TON] [OT] [EB] What was that? Your proposed keyboard layout for the single row of > rubber keys which should remain labeled? ;-) ??? OT = Off Topic > Again I fully agree. Yes, extern reity has to be assumed prior to > making physic theories. And I so believe that it is reasonable to > proceed in this way. What I was trying to say in my last posting was, > that though we have our senses which inform us about a certain kind > of reity, and though it is reasonable to assume that reity will > be more or less like what we receive through our senses, there is > ways the possibility that we just receive a very distorted picture > of reity. I Agree. AND what we acept as reity may not be the reity at l. We need our senses to see, feel (etc) what is around and then we think and try to arrange scientific observations and build theories. BUT there might a whole lot of things that are beyound us that make the _re_ reity, but is it not sufficient for us to just think of our persieved reity as the re one to us - witheen our limitations. > perhaps space and time are quantized too. We thought that the world > were continuous because we had *perceived* it continuous for ages. Yes, the modern physics seems to say that everything is quantisized so we live in a world of massive hoard of integer quatums. ****************************************************** The re numbers exist only in mathematics! ****************************************************** I left a lot at the bottom just to say that I am more on Nicks side here only to emphasize on the fact that I think of JKH to think totly in math way where there is a point pi *exactly* and as an abstract thing in our minds it is re, but since everything seems to be quantums in the physic world there are no absolutely perfect circles and the irration numbers seem to be well - irration... > First: The mathematic concept of pi doesn't have to exist as a > length in re space, whatever this space might be. In order to be at > exactly x=pi at some time during the travel, you must be at some point > whose description demands infinite number of digits, and whose exact > construction is not possible *by the same mathematics that concieved > pi*, that is by the same mathematics that says to us that such a thing > like pi results from examining a circle. The projection of the > continuous space of re numbers onto the x-Axis of the re world > is a usable, fruitable concept, no more no less. Here we come to the > second reason. Second: It might be that the usage of the continuum space doesn't hold > if we look more precicely. It might be that space itself is not a > consist of, can only exist a x=0*lq, x=1*lq, x=2*lq, where lq stands > for length quantum. If pi!=n*lq, where n is integer, then you will > never be at exactly x=pi. You jump from one length quantum to the > next, with no in-between whatsoever!!!! Pi exists then only inside a > mathematic theory but is not a re existing distance. In addition, > the location of the node, but it can be (at the same time???) at the > one side and at the other side of the node, though it *never goes > through the node*. (This is an oversimplification of course.) > We use this kind of reasoning l the time in ordinary life. Ordinary life is not much of theoretic physics and even less of > mathematics. We don't want to land at the asylum ;-) > If the > temperature outside was X degrees an hour ago, and is X+2 degrees now, then > it MUST have been X+1 at least once at some moment during the past hour. No! Energy is quantized. What you say is an approximation for the > macroscopic world. But if we want to be as exact as current science > lows: > The increase of temperature is increase in energy. Through the > temperature is so a many-steps-curve if you use a rely high > resolution. But it *seems* to us that it is continuous and thus has to > pass through X+1, because our (usu) thermometers just don't have > this high resolution. In reity the increase in temperature is a > curve consisting of a huge number of tiny little steps, which *jump* > from T1 to T2 *with no in-between, that is without having some > temperature that is at some time between the two levels T1 and T2, > that differ by deltaT, a quantity which you can cculate by > considering the energy quantum-levels of l atoms of the system which > you examine, and the state sum of the whole system. The first few > chapters of the book Quantum Mechanics by bert Messiah > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486409244/qid=1043237958/sr=8 -1/ref=sr_8_1/103-8783693-9814201?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 > contain a very very good description about that. so, you can find a > very good description about state sums as the connecting link from > quantum mechanics to thermodynamics of the bulk, in the book Physik > Chemistry by Moore, Hummel, which unfortunately I can't find at > amazon. > That's absolutely true even if NOBODY measured the time or times that it was > X+1 degrees. It's an absolutely reliable statement about extern reity, > even if there is no way whatsoever to verify it with any kind of measuring > equipment. No. It is a reliable statement only *inside the approximation of a > continuum of energy*. > Why? Because it fits my pet theories? Because it fits my > wishful thinking? Because some professor told me that I have to think that > way? Because God told me so? No! Because the perception of a continuum has lead to the idea that the > world has to be structured that way. > It's the same logic we often use in math. If a continuous function is > positive at x=1, and negative at x=2, then there *must* be at least one > vue of x between 1 and 2 for which f(x)=0. *MUST* be. You ready said iff a continuous function..., that is your premise > is that the function that you examine is continuous. But nobody can > assure as that re world has to be that way. Even if it is, we see that such a coordinate like x=pi might exist, > but then it is non-constructable, we can't say where it is exactly. > (Though for everyday life it is enough to have a certain precision and > we leave the rest for the restless.) > Does reity > conform to this math? No, it's the other way around. It works in math > because it's a quity of Reity. This is so a very vague statement. It is up to our days not exactly > known why math conforms so good to reity. Many would say that > since the same nature that we try to grasp mathematicly has so > developed our brains, we can do nothing different than thinking and > producing mathematics in agreement to nature. But then the question > remains, how were we able to produce continuum mathematics, when (it > seems that) nature is discrete? X > > The existance of mathematic constructs doesn't > > automaticly imply physic existance. If you accept that > > a circle has physic reity then you must accept that pi > > has so physic reity. But this is a very very difficult > > question. > I must disagree. Just because *we* cannot construct a perfect circle, nor > measure a proposed perfect circle with enough accuracy to prove it so, is > NOT proof that perfect circles do not exist. Of course they DO exist; an > infinite number of 'em are spinning around your head this very instant. Not if space is quantized as I ready said 100 times. > Nobody can rely tell that mathematic > > concepts have to find their exact anogon on re world. > True; many mathematic concepts do not correspond with simple physic > reity. But extension (length, volume, time, position) certainly does. Probably only in the continuum approach. > The re numbers, including pi, fl into that category. So you state that there can be l amounts of energy, like there are > re numbers? What about discrete spectres? Or are we going to > re-believe that matter is continuously divisible? It should be if > re numbers (continuum approach for lengths etc) were to be taken as > the truth of nature. X > A hole. A gap. A place that > isn't there. A place you can't go to. In other words, a discontinuity. A place that you can't go is not necessarily a discontinuity of space > itself, though it could be. But it could so be that your wave > function has a node exactly at that particular location where you > would like to be. Actuly the whole concept of exact locization > their nature. X > I only wanted to focus on the fact that there are many many > mathematics constructs which (for the time being) don't seem to have > any relation with re-world. X > something to keep the vacuum of space from boiling you, of course. Why, the space vacuum is boiling! Didn't you know that?! > The Complex Nick Karagiaouroglou. > (With such a family name I have to be complex ;-)) > Greetings and thanks a lot for this posting. I'm glad that my cculator can use Complex Numbers. It may even help me to cculate the vue of Nick BUT to be precise I rather use the greek letter gamma to represent Nick in an absolute infinite precision amount. ==== X > mentioned, the 49G is currently on se. so, I did check with the > supplier - and they apparently offer the 49G with an included PC link > cable... this is certainly pleasing. Then buy it now! ==== > As for 49G with Spanish manus, it is expected that a speci > production arrives in May. To me, it just sounds as if they are making more 49G's (but the same > 49G's as now). Maybe they've run out of stock. But on the other hand, > you may be right. They have run out of stock of the HP 49G ==== X > NewOS is _NOT_ using RPL entries, except some ACCESSERAM1 on HP49. Well - would it be possible to make it a FlashROM? Besides the BootLoader it could entirely replace the current ROM... ==== > Since the 38G is using the 48 style case, those covers > should work on the 48 as well. Sorry, but the 38G case is very different from the 48 case. The 38G > slide-on cover does not fit on the 48. -Joe- > Funny! I just slided the HP 38G cover into my HP 48SX ==== X > The HP-38G doesn't have the same case as the HP-48, > and the slide cover doesn't fit on it. The HP-38G case has a rail for the cover, > which the HP-48 doesn't have. > os the back of the HP-48 is rounded, > whereas the case of the 38G is nearly straight rectangular in shape. AFAIK the slide-on cover of the 38G is an > integr part of the machine, > which normly doesn't get lost... Raymond > Well it only slides to cover the keyboard on my HP 49G but I have succeeded in covering the LCD on both my HP 48SX _and_ my HP 48GX, what I was thinking of testing last year, but forgot until I read your answers today. I had two extra covers just for that and they are going stay on! ==== Haa! I managed to slide in the HP 38G cover on my HP 48GX !! > The 39G used the same keyboard/case as the 49G but the 38G was a > completely new molding. There's no way that the 38G's sliding cover will > work with anything other than the 38G. > I notice on the HP website awhile back that the HP 38G had a slide cover. I > have looked over the HP site but can not find a mention to it in replacement > parts. Sense the 38G is using the 48 stile case, those cover should work on > the 48 as well. Does anyone know what the part number is for the cover or > know where covers can be found? > Richard Garner > rgarner@vidnet.net > ==== I'll be back! > Veli-Pekka Nousiainen: a great one in this forum. And a great 49borg > R Lion escribi.97 en el mensaje > Just that ==== > Joseph K. Horn meinte > >>Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either >>www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? If not, it's merely a French >>Connection problem. Finland OK ==== > Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either > www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? If not, it's merely a French Well, back in Austria, and is still doesn't work. The name holyjoe.net doesn't resolve (same for l the other names you've mentionned) netcract.com is able to scan your web site which is very weird.. Maybe you can only access it from the US ? ==== X > Personly I am continuly surprised at how flexible and powerful the HP49 > can be. Even after nearly 3 years I would guess that I only understand and > use at most 20% of over 800 functions. A non-exhaustive note to the newbies in this newsgroup: The amount of functions depends on how you count them. One must remember that many HP 4x series functions can take different Object types as arguments. The most versatile is + Re, Complex, String, Matrix, gebraic, Binary, List, ... will be added or concatenated with only one command. Naturly, -, *, and / can be used on both matrices and numbers Many functions and commands so take list of arguments and process each member to give you a list of answers. This is cled Parlel Processing. You don't have separate C+, CSIN, CLN functions for Complex arguments. Neither for Matrices: INV inverts a Matrix as well as a number. so Binaries, Integers, Res, Complex numbers can be used by many functions without explicitly stating the argument type. A few exeptions are Temperature INCrement and Temperature DELTA, Graphic OR, Graphic XOR, parlel processing in list ADDing. so Lists, Strings and Matrices use sometimes the same command names GET, GETI, HEAD, POS, PUT, PUTI, REPL, SIZE, SUB, TAIL,... One could say there are more than 2300 functions and commands. OR maybe even more... PS: The TI 89/92/200 have typicly different names for different types in many cases, which makes them less flexible to program and use. ==== Everything? Rely? Will the Aplet support ever find it's way to the 1.19-7 ROM (1.19-8 ?) X > Please note that when designing the HP49G ROM we prepared everything so > having e-lesson on the HP49 would be possible. In fact, l the specific e-lesson entry points are there, including > pre-located reserved memory. There's even a dedicated object for the > e-lesson. > However, due to lack of time and management will, e-lesson support has never > been completed.. ==== > I agree, completely! And by posting in this NG, others will so > benefit from the answers/discussion. Bothering individus IMHO would > be waste of time and considering the fact that posts in this NG is > read by many people, one could surely so expect a better answer to > a problem here, since different approaches to a problem, here can be > taken.. Here a posting I got today from Hlo ... > Ich besch.8aftige mich gerade mit meinem 49 G und habe noch nicht > verstanden wie verstanden wie das mit den Library funktioniert. > Ich wollte erst m ein Grundverst.8andniss wie sie anlege und dann > die Befehle gebe, auf eine Antwort w.9frde ich mich freuen. Vielleicht > bekomme und dann dort bearbeiten kann um die Variablen abzulesen. > Sch.9anen Gruss aus Kassel - Rolf Eckhardt I don't understand the question. What is xls? Maybe somebody else > could reply :-) Microsoft Excel worksheet file format Maybe he could download the vues as a space/comma delimited file (as a string/text file) to his HP 49G ==== > Learning SysRPL fast and efficiently is IMHO possible only by hacking > other people's SysRPL programs. Examples in Programming in SysRP are > too simple and you'll never come to an end if reading it from A to Z. > Clearly, you should have it ways at hand to look at the stack diagrams > etc. Write your own UserRPL program and then try to translate it to SysRPL (until there is no user xCOMMAND remain). I think that this could be a more moderated stage before hacking programs that you (maybe) barely known, and ways just from a user point of view. With this approach you will learn the basis of the language and after a while can take l the juice from other people's code. Sudos Jorge M. Venzani ==== The standard sum of: sum from k=zero to infinity with X^k, the answer is 1 / (1-X) , if X < 1 Question 1) When i do (at my HP49G) the following (i don't type sum and infinity, just here...): sum(k=0, infinity, 0.5^k) it counts forever... until i interupt it, and then often the result is ok or if not very close. But why does it never stop? (my friends TI-89 answers right after he pressed enter, and HP should be better than TI, as we l know :-D ) Question 2) How do i factorize (if it's possible)?: 1 / (X^2 -2*X +1) If i mark the denumerator in the equationeditor and press FACTO my cculator responds with: ((-(1-X))^2*(-1)^2) which i think its quite stupid answer (-1)^2 <--- = Stupid // Jocke ==== I've used the ->KEYTIME to speed up my input, but when I do a soft reset (ON-F3) I lose the setting. Is there a way around this? CE ==== What is your name ?. Note: When you warmstart (ON-F3) the microcomputer HP-49G you has losed the ->KEYTIME setting, but don't worry. You can create in the HOME directory the glob variable STARTUP. In this instance, put into the variable l FLAGS setting what you work and the setting of ->KEYTIME. For me the better is 10 ->KEYTIME. I'm send to you, an example of STARTUP setting: .82 CLEAR CLLCD PINIT .82 257 MENU é 41.1 ASN IFERR 10 ->KEYTIME THEN KEYTIME-> END { # 3880038204010FF4h # 0h # 50400c0a100208h # 0h } STOF VARS SORT ORDER é Then now you SAVE this glob variable with ... 'STARTUP' STO Remember of Back-up this glob variable in the Port 2 (Flash Memory). Miguel Angel CAPORINI HERK **************************************************************************** *** > I've used the ->KEYTIME to speed up my input, but when I do a soft > reset (ON-F3) I lose the setting. Is there a way around this? ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** You can store a sml program << 300 ->KEYTIME > into 'STARTUP' file in HOME dir. This should get executed every time HP restarts... think :-) Demo CE p.92se v diskusn.92m pr.92spevku > I've used the ->KEYTIME to speed up my input, but when I do a soft > reset (ON-F3) I lose the setting. Is there a way around this? > > CE -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== Anyone? Even a no, ain't possible will set me up with more than I know right now :) I'll be your best friend if you help me out ;). I read one thread somewhere that mentioned conversion between the 48G and 39G/40G as not rely possible . They so mentioned, though, that it would be easier to port to a 49G. Easier relative to conquering Rome or, well, easier than that? eshylay ==== > I read one thread somewhere that mentioned conversion between the 48G and > 39G/40G as not rely possible . They so mentioned, though, that it > would > be easier to port to a 49G. Easier relative to conquering Rome or, > well, > easier than that? > I don't think an applet would natively run on a 48gx or a 49g, modifications would have to be done. However you can try to load the ROM from the 39/40 for the HP49æon the 49g. I have not tried this yet, but you can supposedly convert a 49g into an hp40. You might be able to run the e-lessons that way. If I ever get around to figure out another way to convert or run them, I'll get back to you. -- ==== You could run the e-lessons via the emulator. You can find the 39/40G version of the emulator on my utilities page at http://www.hphomeview.com However, the difficulty with that idea is that you can't load e-lessons directly from their PC code to the emulator: you have to use HPGComm to send them to the 39G first, then send them from the 39G to the emulator pretending to be a 39G. It doesn't sound like you have a 39G (otherwise you'd presumably not have asked the orgin question) so this may not be an option for you. However, if you are only after a sml number of e-lessons, perhaps to evuate their usefulness, then I'm prepared to post a saved ROM version of the emulator with the aplets that you want pre-loaded. Just let me know which ones you want. This saved file can be loaded directly into the emulator and will contain the aplets (e-lessons) ready to use. > > I read one thread somewhere that mentioned conversion between the 48G and > 39G/40G as not rely possible . They so mentioned, though, that it > would > be easier to port to a 49G. Easier relative to conquering Rome or, > well, > easier than that? > > I don't think an applet would natively run on a 48gx or a 49g, > modifications would > have to be done. However you can try to load the ROM from the 39/40 for the HP49 on the 49g. > I have not tried this yet, but you can supposedly convert a 49g into an > hp40. You might be able to run the e-lessons that way. If I ever get around > to figure > out another way to convert or run them, I'll get back to you. ==== > You could run the e-lessons via the emulator. You can find the 39/40G > version of the emulator on my utilities page at > http://www.hphomeview.com However, the difficulty with that idea is > that you can't load e-lessons directly from their PC code to the > emulator: you have to use HPGComm to send them to the 39G first, then > send them from the 39G to the emulator pretending to be a 39G. Please note that when designing the HP49G ROM we prepared everything so having e-lesson on the HP49 would be possible. In fact, l the specific e-lesson entry points are there, including pre-located reserved memory. There's even a dedicated object for the e-lesson. However, due to lack of time and management will, e-lesson support has never been completed.. ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Samuel Thibault p.92se v diskusn.92m pr.92spevku > As I'm not an IP expert, is there a way how to surf without using DNS, but > not offline. For example I want to connect to my comp just by using IP > address. > > What is the system of your computer ? If it is an unix with pppd, you > can set option ms-dns to tell dns server. I got windows & linux, but I do not have connection to Internet. (I mean permanent :-) > > > -- > Samuel Thibault > And the next time you consider complaining that running Lucid Emacs > get the background colors right, you'll know who to thank. > (By Matt Welsh) Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== > As I'm not an IP expert, is there a way how to surf without using DNS, > but > not offline. For example I want to connect to my comp just by using IP > address. > > What is the system of your computer ? If it is an unix with pppd, you > can set option ms-dns to tell dns server. I got windows & linux, but I do not have connection to Internet. (I mean > permanent :-) As a last resort, you may setup a dns server on your linux box, and give its address to the hp :) (this is what I did) -- Samuel Thibault (* If you have a precise idea of the intended use of the following code, please write to Eduardo.Gimenez@inria.fr and ask for the prize :-) -- Eduardo (11/8/97) *) -+- N sur #ens-mim - et c'.8etait un des d.8eveloppeurs -+- ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Samuel Thibault p.92se v diskusn.92m pr.92spevku > As I'm not an IP expert, is there a way how to surf without using DNS, > but > not offline. For example I want to connect to my comp just by using IP > address. > > What is the system of your computer ? If it is an unix with pppd, you > can set option ms-dns to tell dns server. > > I got windows & linux, but I do not have connection to Internet. (I mean > permanent :-) > > As a last resort, you may setup a dns server on your linux box, and give > its address to the hp :) > (this is what I did) Any good DNS server for linux and/or windows ? > > -- > Samuel Thibault > (* If you have a precise idea of the intended use of the following code, please > write to Eduardo.Gimenez@inria.fr and ask for the prize :-) > -- Eduardo (11/8/97) *) > -+- N sur #ens-mim - et c'.8etait un des d.8eveloppeurs -+- Thanx, Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== hey, > Any good DNS server for linux and/or windows ? a DNS server that is very easy to setup is Dnsmasq (look for it on http://freshmeat.net/) -- fuf (fuf@mageo.cz) ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** I fixed the bug and now it should work for both HP48 & HP49. But please note that it is done recursively, so too deep directory structures & complicated lists may freeze NewOS. (I do not think that you gonna loose any memory. It will just panic) And thanx 4 being interested :o) Demo download: http://www.twincar.sk/download/NewOS_0751.zip John Smith p.92Íe v diskusn.92m pÀ.92sp.93vku > I just downloaded it. Looks good so far. The unlimited threads is great! > Does the DIR command work on your 49? on mine it just hangs. I'll get > back to you after i've played with it for a while. > Keep up the good work! I think this project has good potenti. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== My wife has highest priority, of course. Since she knows me for a long time, and she so knows about my crazy hobby, the RPN ccs, there shouldn't be a problem for both worlds being happy;-) Best Wishes, Raymond ==== > Is there such library? To work with sound, rates, dB, notes, harmonies, > Spl, etc. Basicly collecting l the math required in a sound > recording studio. Well, I've got the tech/music quifications if you can expand on what you're after. A library for studio design would be much more complicated than one for studio operation, which isn't l that technic. And when you say notes, harmonies, etc, what are you looking for? This could be a fun project if people contribute their wants and ideas. Bill ==== > Done the same thing and it works fine ... now if I could only stop the key > labels from disappearing ... There is one thing you can try if you are close to an art supplies shop, the one that sells paints and related art materi. Buy a fixative for ink & pencil, a liquid in sprayable form that is used to protect the drawing from water, smudging & smearing once it is completed. Take a sml transparent plastic sheet (the one used for projector presentations) cut a sml ov-shaped opening the size of an HP49G letter on a key, put it on top of each key and light spray a sml quantity of fixative on a single letter at first and wait for about 5 minutes to see the effect. Good brands guarantee no color teration if sprayed in reasonable amounts! If it works, go ahead and do the whole damned thing! ...and do not forget... NEVER use the hard plastic slider that came ong with the HP49G. Go and buy your self a leather case. !Demeter! ==== > I found some ordinary contact paper to be better; the kind you cover books > with - its clearer. > MC > I am probably sure this has ready been covered but I thought I would > mention how I have prevented screen scratches. I measured and cut a > pm pilot screen protector and placed it over my screen. I have had > it on for about a year and have had no problems. Visibility was noted > only to be slighty hindered. > > Sean Sean ==== > On the HP49 (MASD), you can insert links with 'YourFile , but that doesn't > seem to work with the hptools, can I do it with an other instruction in > ASSEMBLEM mode ? The HPTOOLS code is INCLUDE while in SysRPL mode There's no re need for an include in MASD mode. Normly, the best way to go would be to have separate module and then link them together using SLOAD ==== OK, thank you, so I will do: !RPL INCLUDE Myfile.s ASSEMBLEM but it could be nice to have a way to link the file directly in MASD mode in the future versions. ==== > OK, thank you, so I will do: > > !RPL > INCLUDE Myfile.s > ASSEMBLEM > > but it could be nice to have a way to link the file directly in MASD mode in > the future versions. You can do that, but it will fail with loc labels. ==== Right, I've gone and got myself a 48GX. Now to instl the MK l I need to do is get a 128K ram card transfer the MK onto it and of I go - or is it more complicated then that? so where's the best place to order non HP ram cards online? I'll probably get the 128K plus a 2MB card which seems like the best bang for your buck (I'm in Austria). as fast as an AMD 1900XP running Emu48 : ( Ollie. ==== > Right, I've gone and got myself a 48GX. Now to instl the MK l I need to > do is get a 128K ram card transfer the MK onto it and of I go - or is it > more complicated then that? Download the package at hpcc and follow the instructons. ==== Oliver Cairncross escribi.97 en el mensaje > Right, I've gone and got myself a 48GX. Now to instl the MK l I need to > do is get a 128K ram card transfer the MK onto it and of I go - or is it > more complicated then that? > When you get the 128Kb card, just follow the instl process. > so where's the best place to order non HP ram cards online? I'll probably > get the 128K plus a 2MB card which seems like the best bang for your buck > (I'm in Austria). > I think this is: http://uuhome.de/oklotz/index_e.html ==== > Yes, the command PARTFRAC is what you want. It is on the third page of > the menu ARITH/POLY, key [F3]. Faster access: the G menu. First page. -Joe- are much shorter now. Greetings, Nick. ==== > Serge You're very welcome, Serge. Greetings, Nick. ==== > > Is it just my feeling or reity that >90% of this news group are newbies? > How many people actuly do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? > > Demo I do a little, but IÇm still a newbie (owned my HP49 for 3 months)... Still learning from different .doc-files found on different web-pages. AND HEY: I get a brand new HP49, because IÇve had different kinds of problems with mine (warmstarting for no reason + time/date/arm functions mfunctioning). I contacted the danish import-company that des with the HP49 and told him (on the phone) the first part of my seri number - and he told me that I could just send it in and receive a brand new one, so IÇm looking very much forward to that :-) Btw: My seri number started with ID93.... if somebody wanted to know (I know there has been some discussions about differences in cc-series). Martin J. ==== Sorry.. efnet. Aaron > > They aren't posting anywhere about HP ccs anymore. Why? To be honest, > one > of the reasons is because of the HP49. Probably the main reason though > is > they have moved on to bigger and better things. If you are lucky, you > might find one of them in #hp48 on IRC. I havent been there is years, so > I > don't know. Andre Schrool, Wil Laughlin, and others used to frequent the > channel, but I'd seriously doubt it anymore. However, you can still find > the > pearls of wisdom they left behind for future generations at hpcc.org. > > #hp48 on what IRC server? Dnet, efnet? > > -- > ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** rot13 encoded p.92Íe v diskusn.92m pÀ.92sp.93vku > i rely am a beginner (in a world of HP ccs) and most probably stay like this for a long time since the documentation is so poor :/ Have you checked out www.hpcc.org ? Don't worry if you have hp49. The programming is 99.9% the same as HP48 so check out so tutori for HP48 ! Check this out: http://www.hpcc.org/details.php?id=1693 It should help. Then get debug4x and you may start programming in ML :-) Good luck, Demo > > > Is it just my feeling or reity that >90% of this news group are newbies? > How many people actuly do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? > > Demo > > -- > fuf (fuf@mageo.cz) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== > > Or they could make a *good* keyboard for a change. > I can't access the holyjoe.org web site. I can't even resolve the hostname. Routing problems? ==== Like I said in one previous posting about the actu state of HP > cculators, the 49G keyboard is less than ide. Less than ide.... ;-) > When you are agreeing to spend the amount of money required to buy > such a machine it is not 20 or so more dollars that would make such a > difference if those additionn dollars would let you have a good > keyborad like the one on the HP41CX. HP perfected their cculators keyboards until the 41CX. Then, for > the 49G, and probably newer models, they decided to dump l that and > revert to cheap stuff found normly on remote control. Jean, the keyboard of the 48, which came after the 41, was so great. > Why did they have to do that. To remain competitive ? Presumably to remain cheap. Which for itself doesn't have to be a bad thing, but if one forgets l other things except being cheap, then.., you know. > I said it in my previous posting but I repeat it here. To me, the > HP49G is a fantastic cculator, but for number crunching in > engineering, it do not fill the bill. It gets worse for non-number crunching activities, as complexity of input increases for example for complicated gebraics and the like. > I bough it because it is an HP but I am a bit deceived at the overl > finishing touches. Clunky keyboard and label legibility. Why not > stick with a dark body and light contrasting colors for the labels. > Look at an HP-67, you will see a sml marvel of functionnity even > if the faceplate is full of functions. Wasn't the 67 the cc with 3 (!) shift keys? And didn't it require up to three key presses for one function? Well, here one can see what came next. The 41 added execution by name (sounds like a movie drama ;-)), which made addition shift keys unnecessary. Then came the 48Sx with even more functions and the concept of execution by name plus menus which again lowed the user to access most anything with a few key presses. But then things started going gigantomania. More functions and features on the 48Gx, but still the same concept of an interface. Meanwhile we landed at the 49G with its hundreds of functions (or even more than 1000 if one has many libraries instled), but the interface is still the same. It is easy to see that this interface has became less and less appropriate for freeing us from much key-pressing. Most of the time it takes fewer key presses to just type in some function instaed of searching in the endless menus. But what an ternative do we have? Is there any ternative for re-gaining the one-two key presses approach for most of the functions? > In the past I ascociated HP with quity. I bough, in succession the > following cculators : 45, 25, 41C, 41CV, 41CX, 48SX, 49G. For each > cculator, I never questionned myself before buying. It was an HP so > it was supposed to be of good quity. I was never deceived except by > the 49G. Except for its power and the possibility of firmware > upgrade, it deceived me for the aforementionned reasons. Oh well, deceived could be a bit too hard, but I understand what you mean. > I seldom use it because it slows me down when performing cculations > (I punch number re fast on cculators, I had to learn that skill > because many exams were like cculation races when I was in > engineering school). By the way, why are telephone keyboards using a > different layout than caculators ? Because phones are not RPN? (First tk, then cl.) ;-) > And, when I need to graph a function or do re heavy number crunching > I use Excel on a PC or a MAC. By the way, the graphic ccultor built > into some MAC systems is a re nice piece of sotware. You mean the sml program gebra Graph ? > At least, HP maintained some ergonomic with the 49G by doing it as a > tl cculator instead of a wide one. The 11C, 12C, 15C were nice > solid machines but their layout is not well conformed for the human > hand. I think this is much of a subject to person gusto, how you hold the cculator and similar things. > So, I wait for the next RPN machine with a solid keyboard (like the > 41CX) and, to the company that will do it: please, please, put back > the ENTER key to its origin place and make it a double wide key. It > is the foc point of RPN. And please, please, use a color scheme > that lows the labels to be read even in low light and avoid shiny > materi for the caculator case. Do not waste time reinventing > something that is near perfect. Spend your time on perfecting the > items that require it like, CAS, variables and file management. And > please, please, keep in mind that a cculator keyboard is not the > most efficient input device to enter a large amount of text like it is > required when writing programs. Yet, with a PC interface it lows > the typing being done on the computer and then downloaded to the > machine. Then using the cculator keybord just for short fixes an > debugging is an acceptable compromise. So please, please, provide an > efficient interface. I think that the idea of using the cculator itself so for lengthy entries is not a bad idea at l. It makes the cculator more independent , more rounded up in the sense of less need for addition devices, like computers. You hit the point tking about an efficient interface, but I think that this is one of the most difficult tasks to accomplish on a machine that has a limited amount of keys and at the same time a huge amount of functions. For example, what could an interface look like, that lows us to access most functions of the 49G by pressing one or two keys? (Direct brain to cc connection is excluded here, though not impossible as Rcobo told us.) What menu system could be introduced, that makes accessing the functions a lot faster? Perhaps a touch screen in combination with mathematics text recognition? > It is too bad, but now, to me, HP is no more THE cculator company. It definitely isn't, but this has so its good consequences. Dinosaurs died out, mams took over. So it goes, nobody is top for ever. > I tried TIs, Casio and many other and what distinguished HP from these > was RPN and the overl functionnity and quity of the HPs. Yep! Let's hope that the mams will adopt some advantages of the dinosaurs ;-) > I hope someone peoples at HP and in other cculators companies are > reading this news group. Hmm, I don't want to disappoint you or anybody else, but I think that they have better things to do ;-) Greetings, Nick. ==== > But one thing I still am afraid of: Is the non-uniform quity > of the printing process at least so good for the more centr > keys, that they won't fade? Or will they so fade but after > a longer time than the keys at the corners? Should I try some > protection method to prevent further loss of key labels? l my inner keys look like new *except* the NXT key, which is starting to > fade, perhaps because it gets constant use *and* because it's at the > upper-left corner of a relatively large expanse of empty re estate, thus > lowing me to rest my thumb there and press the NXT key by rocking my thumb > and *perhaps* causing the NXT key to get slightly more angular pressure than > the other keys. Oh no! Now that you mention that I see that the label of [NXT] on my cc so starts saying its last good bye. Û@$%#&! > So my proposed solution is that the next cculator with crummy rubber keys > should have two entire columns and rows of blank keys ong l four edges, > and no empty keyboard re estate. The blank ones can be left for > programming by the user, and they'd never wear out (being ready blank), > and they'd protect the inner keys from crummy printing *and* from non-linear > user contact. You mean leaving about three and a hf keys with lables for pre-assigned functions? ;-) > Or they could make a *good* keyboard for a change. Sigh! I played again with the 48 yesterday. What a difference it makes! Greetings, Nick. ==== First of l thank you very very much for the answer. It gets exciting! :-) Because you describe what you think so nicely and detailed Joe, I'll be inserting my commends in your paragraphs sometimes, instead of appending them after your paragraphs. I know that this can interrupt the flow of your written thoughts but I feel it lets some foc points be better seen . I hope you don't mind. > [OT] [EB] [RO] [TON] [OT] [EB] What was that? Your proposed keyboard layout for the single row of rubber keys which should remain labeled? ;-) > Warning: I'm enjoying this FAR too much to guarantee objectivity. :-) Add me to the club! And let me be there for ever. > There is not a single theory that can be proven to be > absolutely correct, the only thing that we can strictly do > is to disprove them... I agree. As I see it, theories are imperfect *explanations* of reity, are > are never the same as the perfect reity that they explain. However, I > hope you agree that it would make little sense to seek explanations of > reity if there were no reity to explain. Completely agree with that. Of course we must pre-assume that there is a reity, which we are then trying to approximate using theories and testing them against..., and now it comes, against what we can measure, what we can grasp of reity. A theory that states something but doesn't give us any possibility to test it against reity is,.. well, unprovable, nobody knows if it is right or wrong. > Thus the existence of theories > ASSUMES the existence of an extern reity... otherwise human knowledge is > nothing more than a lot of meaningless wordplay (as Wittgenstein > meaninglessly claimed). Again I fully agree. Yes, extern reity has to be assumed prior to making physic theories. And I so believe that it is reasonable to proceed in this way. What I was trying to say in my last posting was, that though we have our senses which inform us about a certain kind of reity , and though it is reasonable to assume that reity will be more or less like what we receive through our senses, there is ways the possibility that we just receive a very distorted picture of reity. I make an example for this. None of our senses gives us the impression of quantization, we simply perceive a world in which matter and energy seem continuous. Nonetheless most up to date theories show that this isn't reity . Matter is granulary , energy comes in packets, perhaps space and time are quantized too. We thought that the world were continuous because we had *perceived* it continuous for ages. Finest experiments have shown that there are problems with this, and so new theories were developed that lead us to a new conception of reity, you know how it happened. Now the question is, how can one be sure that the new picture or reity will remain unchanged, that is, that no new discoveries will be ever made, that re-change our picture of the world, even to the point that we have to accept that quantum-phenomena take place not because of quanization of energy and matter, but because of something different. Tking about QM (ways a very good source), it starts so showing that our inability to understand, to rely understand what QM says, is not because of the mathematic problems involved, but simply because we are still influenced in our thinking by our senses. There are hard questions, answer was both, it depends what you do with it . But now it starts something different , something different which nobody can even imagine of, because we just don't have any concept of anything else that we directly perceive, discrete things like two stones , and continuous things like water ? > By the way, I strongly prefer to define reity and that which exists as > synonyms. Of course, you may cl it what you wish: Extern Reity, > Existence, Actuity, Fact, Substantiity, Being, The Cosmos, Xyzzy... > whatever word or words you prefer are fine with me as long as we mean the > same thing by them, namely, that which perdures even when I'm not thinking > about it... that which remains the same even when I'm asleep... Very strictly taken, but only then, it is impossible to speak about something that perdures when we are not tking about it. With this, I don't mean that the world simply disappears when we go sleep and re-appears when we wake up, though some thoughts could be made about the reity of the perduring things for someone who is... dead. I don't try to go meta-physics here. I simply mean the following: It is ready known that what we think as perduring , is what our brain constructs with the received data of the senses. So, when we see a tree, the picture that we see *is not given to our brain by our eyes*. It is the brain itself that takes as input many many photons and constructs the picture of the tree. Another even more impressive discovery is that though we feel time passing by continuously, our brain choppes it to slices of approx. 1 second. The time between the ticks simply doesn't exist for the brain. This is a proven fact. So the question is, what should I accept for reity? When I know that the beautiful tree that I see is a picture that my brain draws in re chopped time ? Back to the begining of the paragraph: Perduring with no tking about it goes in direction perduring with no thinking about it , and this is a rather vague statement, now that we know that it is rely thinking, with l its sub processes that creates the picture that we believe to be perduring. The assumption of perduring with no dependence on what I think about it is of course a hethy and fruitable approach, or else we would never had sent space crafts to the moon, but we shouldn't make this approach absolute. But I must often ask myself, is that tree over there what rely is, or does it get beautifulized by my brain? > that which > has the quity of location (in the space-time continuum that we currently > inhabit)... We ready know that the concept of locization is a rather problematic one. Our wave functions extend to infinity. Even wave packets dis-locize as time passes by. > that which is Outside Of My Mind.... We so know that such a thing like Outside My Mind is presumably not possible. (Observer and observed is a single system, no observer independend of observed.) Only in the macroscopic approximation this is most correct. But this approximation is an oversimplification. > no jokes please about *me* being out of my mind. ;-) Hey that was goooooooooood! Apart from a good joke, it was meta-mathematics. I think about me, as what must exist when I don't will spend the next nights with. What a marvelous thing to think of. > I prefer to cl it Reity , and to say that > those things in Reity have a property cled existence ... but if you > prefer other words, fine, let's agree on 'em and then get back to tking > about THAT (whatever you wish to cl it). Ok? How about leaving reity outside and just tk about what the world looks like to *us*? You know, there are anims which see the world in grey levels and not in colors. But, you so know, that there are many different colors that correspond to the same grey level. And you so know that color is wavelength in physics. Now, assume an intelligent ien, who so feels the thirst for learning and explaining the world. (As if we didn't have any other problems ;-)) Let's cl the ien . Now, communicates with Nick and with joy they both sit down and tk happily about their cultures and what coffee they drink when they wake up in the morning. (What they look like at that time, they don't tell ;-)) They so tk about light. And here the problems start showing. For Nick the concept of a wave length is most selfunderstandable and it fits extraordinary to his picture of colors. But poor can't understand that. In fact he finds Nick's picture a rather silly one. He finds different wave lengths for one and the same grey level. No one to one correspondence. Nick may try to explain what a color is, but for this l comes down to the sentence: Two grey levels which are the same... don't have to be the same . In other words... a!=a , which makes thinking that these earthlings must be very stupid creatures. (Which they might rely be ;-)) I don't think that would have found the same picture if stupid Nick wouldn't have told him about. And so we have the question, who's picture is next to reity? Why should my colors be more correct than his grey levels? And following that to the endth consequence, why should my wave lengths (my picture of reity behind light) be more correct than 's who-knows-what-property-of-light (his picture of reity)? > This is not a proof of the existence of PI EMED... > Speaking about go there , how do you prove that you are there? > By measuring? I need not prove that I *am* at a place in order to prove that that place > exists. You must be able to somehow specify it and prove the specification! How would you communicate that you are at a particular location? > Furthermore, imperfect measuring suffices! For engineering/technology purposes, and for my everyday life it suffices. For theories, well it is a different story then. > Outrageous claims? No, I would say, too simplified claims sometimes. > Here's my reasoning: Suppose you can only measure with an accuracy of one > mile (pretty pathetic, but it suffices for this purpose!). So you go to the > location 2 miles short of PI EMED (+/- 1 mile). Then you travel in a > straight line to 2 miles beyond PI EMED (+/- 1 mile). In doing so, you must > logicly have passed *through* the point PI EMED. No! I tell you why not after the end of your paragraph. > It doesn't matter > *where* you passed through it or when; l that matters is that you did pass > through it. But if PI EMED did not exist, then you would not be able to go > there (since that's what a non-existent point means), and hence you'd be > unable to go *through* it. But we DID go through it. Ergo, it exists, QED. No and again no! The fact that you were at x=0, travelled ong x and now you are at x=10, does by no means imply that you were at x=pi. Two reasons: First: The mathematic concept of pi doesn't have to exist as a length in re space, whatever this space might be. In order to be at exactly x=pi at some time during the travel, you must be at some point whose description demands infinite number of digits, and whose exact construction is not possible *by the same mathematics that concieved pi*, that is by the same mathematics that says to us that such a thing like pi results from examining a circle. The projection of the continuous space of re numbers onto the x-Axis of the re world is a usable, fruitable concept, no more no less. Here we come to the second reason. Second: It might be that the usage of the continuum space doesn't hold if we look more precicely. It might be that space itself is not a consist of, can only exist a x=0*lq, x=1*lq, x=2*lq, where lq stands for length quantum. If pi!=n*lq, where n is integer, then you will never be at exactly x=pi. You jump from one length quantum to the next, with no in-between whatsoever!!!! Pi exists then only inside a mathematic theory but is not a re existing distance. In addition, the location of the node, but it can be (at the same time???) at the one side and at the other side of the node, though it *never goes through the node*. (This is an oversimplification of course.) > We use this kind of reasoning l the time in ordinary life. Ordinary life is not much of theoretic physics and even less of mathematics. We don't want to land at the asylum ;-) > If the > temperature outside was X degrees an hour ago, and is X+2 degrees now, then > it MUST have been X+1 at least once at some moment during the past hour. No! Energy is quantized. What you say is an approximation for the macroscopic world. But if we want to be as exact as current science lows: The increase of temperature is increase in energy. Through the temperature is so a many-steps-curve if you use a rely high resolution. But it *seems* to us that it is continuous and thus has to pass through X+1, because our (usu) thermometers just don't have this high resolution. In reity the increase in temperature is a curve consisting of a huge number of tiny little steps, which *jump* from T1 to T2 *with no in-between , that is without having some temperature that is at some time between the two levels T1 and T2, that differ by deltaT, a quantity which you can cculate by considering the energy quantum-levels of l atoms of the system which you examine, and the state sum of the whole system. The first few chapters of the book Quantum Mechanics by bert Messiah http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486409244/qid=1043237958/sr=8 -1/ref=sr_8_1/103-8783693-9814201?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 contain a very very good description about that. so, you can find a very good description about state sums as the connecting link from quantum mechanics to thermodynamics of the bulk, in the book Physik Chemistry by Moore, Hummel , which unfortunately I can't find at amazon. > That's absolutely true even if NOBODY measured the time or times that it was > X+1 degrees. It's an absolutely reliable statement about extern reity, > even if there is no way whatsoever to verify it with any kind of measuring > equipment. No. It is a reliable statement only *inside the approximation of a continuum of energy*. > Why? Because it fits my pet theories? Because it fits my > wishful thinking? Because some professor told me that I have to think that > way? Because God told me so? No! Because the perception of a continuum has lead to the idea that the world has to be structured that way. > It's the same logic we often use in math. If a continuous function is > positive at x=1, and negative at x=2, then there *must* be at least one > vue of x between 1 and 2 for which f(x)=0. *MUST* be. You ready said iff a continuous function... , that is your premise is that the function that you examine is continuous. But nobody can assure as that re world has to be that way. Even if it is, we see that such a coordinate like x=pi might exist, but then it is non-constructable, we can't say where it is exactly. (Though for everyday life it is enough to have a certain precision and we leave the rest for the restless.) > Does reity > conform to this math? No, it's the other way around. It works in math > because it's a quity of Reity. This is so a very vague statement. It is up to our days not exactly known why math conforms so good to reity. Many would say that since the same nature that we try to grasp mathematicly has so developed our brains, we can do nothing different than thinking and producing mathematics in agreement to nature. But then the question remains, how were we able to produce continuum mathematics, when (it seems that) nature is discrete? I ready have told here that you should consider the incompletness which any theory *has to* obey to. This leads (so) to the consequence that there will be no mathematics theory ever that completely answers l that sml devlish quest.92ons that can be asked, and because theoretic physics rely so much on mathematics, physics itself will never conform 100% to reity. > How exactly can you measure the location distances. Don't need to, as demonstrated above (hopefully in a clear and convincing > manner; if not, I'm sure you'll let me know). You don't need to measure exactly as long as you stay in some perticular approximation. But when you ask about reity, about re reity , then you have to be exact. Which you can't. > Can we rely measure up to infinite precision ... No, of course not. No need to. Again only if we stay at technology problems. But speaking about reity is something completely different. > ... which would be necessary for saying that we reached PI EMED? Aha, there's your logic flaw. Many things can be known, even with > absolute certainty, without infinite precision... even with any particular > amount of imprecision! Of course, that's heresy according to the > Positivists, but I ain't a Positivist. No this is not what positivism says. I am so not a positivist but rather a mixture of positivist and platonist, but positivism is definitely not the deni of anything that can' be measured. Positivism in its core asks what the use of a theory can be, if nobody can measure anything in order to prove it or disprove it. The judging axt of physics is the experiment. If no experiment can be made in order to prove if a theory is fse or... usable (I don't dare saying true ), then how can we say if the theory is related to reity or not? > Not l certainty comes from > measurement, because if it did, there'd be no certainty at l about > anything, which leads to the statement It Is Absolutely Certain That > Nothing Is Absolutely Certain which is internly contradictory and > therefore cannot be true. Haha! That was good. And that was so true. (Incompletness to the endth degree ;-)) First I must ask you, why don't you like the statement It Is Absolutely Certain That Nothing Is Absolutely Certain ? What do you find abd with it? Anyway, as I see it here we should separate two things. One of them is pure mathematics, which doesn't care if the logic constructs have any re anogon. In this sence mathematicians are often naive platonists, naive has here the good meaning. They can extract the main properties, that what you cl what exists when I don't think about it , they can sublime and create for example the ide circle, which might not exist in our re world. In this sense mathematics is the science that you could still can do if you wake up in the morning and find out that the universe is gone! (It is this why in mathematics the words discover and invent are used as synonyms.) In this ide world we are lowed to tk about circles, without even one re occurrence of such construction in re world. Then, pi exists, radii exits and everything that the circle has to do with. On the other hand, physics is a science whose statements have to be verified in experiments. The handling has become more and more mathematics based with time, but this is not because what mathematics idely concieve is so a part of reity. In this sense, it might be discovered in future that there is not a single perfect ide circle in this universe, simply because the structure of space doesn't low that. (Think what would happen if space were to be found to be discrete.) We use mathematics in physics not because we think that there exist some one to one mapping between l ide mathematic constructs and re world, but rather because the experience has shown that doing this is a very fruitful approach, even if we only approximate reity with physics. At least doing so was the reason for some of the greatest achievements (and worst catastrophies), while searching for the perfect physic theory has given nothing at l. > But one thing remains: To say that we have found reity we > must first do every thinkable experiment, every thinkable test > and so on, and find out that there is some theory that can > explain l outcomings of l experiments. Yes and no. Yes, that's what is done to raise an hypothesis to the level of > a theory. No, that is NOT what needs to be done to find reity . > Theories are not reity. I only understood the last sentence theories are not reity , which I absolutely agree with. Can you please explain the rest again? > While a single contradiction is enough to disprove a theory, > there is no finite number of explained experiments which can > prove beyond anby doubt that some theory is the one and only > description of reity. Quite right. But there IS one and only one REITY, and it's the one that > science and philosophy and religion is working so hard to wrap their minds > around. Then you must mean here the human-mathematic (not necessarily physic) reity, because as I said above, we so have and his version of reity which is quite different to Nick's version. You presumably mean that even if Nick and are non-existent, the rest of the world exists one way or the other. But, consider so that the portion of platonism in physics is considerably less than that of mathematics. Even in mathematics platonism can become unhethy if the dosis is too high. Consider the following question: Is the sequence of twin primes (like 5-7, 11-13 and so on) infinite, or does it end at some point? You might answer that we just don't know yet, but sure we'll find out. The sequence has to be either infinite or finite, that is there has to be either greatest pair of such primes, or there has to be one. But what would you say if I tell you that perhaps none of the above answers is correct? You think that there could be no third possibility? Why? Why couldn't the twin prime conjecture be neither true nor fse? Rashevsky has stated that natur number system contains not only some information about re things of the human practice, but it so contains many elements of fantasy. Why do you think that such a fantastic world (a kind of Disneyland) should be completely perfect? If (one of) the basic thigs of our picture of the world, namely the natur number system has such Disneyland properties, then why do you expect that it describes reity ? Please, whenever you have time to, visit the site http://www.ltn.lv/~podnieks/gt.html and take a closer look. It is much stuff but it is very good written stuff and very very interesting. > No theoretic physicist claims to be able to > tell you what reity is. None of 'em have dictionaries? Reity is That Which Exists. According to > the Random House Collegiate Dictionary, reity is that which exists > independently of ideas concerning it . Works for me. Dictionaries are definitely not the books that we should use to examine physic reity . Sorry, I can only accept the above as a joke. > The existance of mathematic constructs doesn't > automaticly imply physic existance. If you accept that > a circle has physic reity then you must accept that pi > has so physic reity. But this is a very very difficult > question. I must disagree. Just because *we* cannot construct a perfect circle, nor > measure a proposed perfect circle with enough accuracy to prove it so, is > NOT proof that perfect circles do not exist. Of course they DO exist; an > infinite number of 'em are spinning around your head this very instant. Not if space is quantized as I ready said 100 times. > Nobody can rely tell that mathematic > concepts have to find their exact anogon on re world. True; many mathematic concepts do not correspond with simple physic > reity. But extension (length, volume, time, position) certainly does. Probably only in the continuum approach. > The re numbers, including pi, fl into that category. So you state that there can be l amounts of energy, like there are re numbers? What about discrete spectres? Or are we going to re-believe that matter is continuously divisible? It should be if re numbers (continuum approach for lengths etc) were to be taken as the truth of nature . > Similar situation to PI EMED: If there were no re pi on a number line, > then there would have to be a discontinuity there and you wouldn't be > able > to go through that point, but you can, so there isn't, ergo pi exists. > I > suppose a black hole might exist at PI EMED, but if it did, it'd be even > EASIER to go there, though the fin approach would suck. ;-) > > Not discontinuity, where did you get that? Doesn't non-existing location mean that? No! > A hole. A gap. A place that > isn't there. A place you can't go to. In other words, a discontinuity. A place that you can't go is not necessarily a discontinuity of space itself, though it could be. But it could so be that your wave function has a node exactly at that particular location where you would like to be. Actuly the whole concept of exact locization their nature. > No matter how obv.92ous something is, it is not this > that makes a set of axioms a basis for a theory. I'm not tking about theories. I'm tking about the reity which > theories attempt to explain, a reity that's actuly out there, a reity > about which many things are obvious, some less so, and some not at l. l things obvious or not, are constructs of your brain activity which you can't filter out no matter what you do. If you mean here that there is a physic reity independently of your thought, then I must assert that nobody has seen it yet, we only assume it to be. The judgement for this assumption is experiment, but even then you can't take away the coupling mind-phenomenon. > Just because some things are complicated does not convince me that > everything has to be complicated. Some things rely are simple. Oh no! Not necessarily complicated. Different perhaps, but not complicated. Actuly some of the most fundament questions are so easy that you can explain them to children. And yet nobody knows the answer. Besides, as Einstein stated, The explanation of phenomena of nature has to be exactly as complicated as necessary. No more, but so not less . > Eastern > mystics even argue that *everything* is simple, and it's only the mind of > man that has complicated it by trying to fabricate ment constructions that > describe reity (with a flood of words) better than reity describes > itself (by merely existing). OK, I know who you are tking about ;-) > I disagree with that, since an apple does not > *describe* itself by merely existing. But they do have a point: throwing > big words at reity might not make it go away but it can certainly impede > experience of it. Nobody is throwing big words. It is only a hethy amount of doubt, without which we wouldn't try to explain anything better than before. > It is possible to accept anything as axiom and go on > constructing the corresponding theory that then might > prove some statements right, which don't have to do > much with reity. Ah, you're right. My mistake; I should not have used axioms as an example. I found your assertion rely good, because it shows where l starts at, even in cases in which the end is not very reity-like . Wasn't that your intention to say that many of these systems of axioms have statements as results, which at least resemble reity very very much? > Mathematics is not only for measuring re existing distances. Please remember, I'm not tking about measuring anything. I'm not a > positivist. I only wanted to focus on the fact that there are many many mathematics constructs which (for the time being) don't seem to have any relation with re-world . > This is not the primary objective. The primary objective, as I see it, is equivent to determining whether > there *rely exists* (in extern reity, apart from any thoughts about > it) a point in space corresponding to PI EMED. That can be determined with > absolute certainty with even the crudest of measuring devices... and > something to keep the vacuum of space from boiling you, of course. That was good :-) Nick is boiling in vacuum, will that be mousaka when it is ready? If you add under some given premises after *rely exists* and if you mean rely not in the sense of physic reity, then I completely agree. Else I partily agree (which for is ready a big step forwards for Nick ;-)) The problem here is, that many mathematic theories were developed after a long exposition to a nature which we can't perfectly percieve with our senses. So, for example, the re numbers theory might have re existence in our minds, but the properties of re numbers are definitely not the properties of nature. > -The Re Joseph K. Horn- > ... or do I only *think* that I'm me? I don't know, Joe! The problem is that perhaps I only think that you think that you are Joe, but in reity you are rely Joe. ;-) No, seriously, of course we can't demand the ultimate proof and at the same time communicate with anybody. I so don't sit down and permanently think, what if Joe is in reity Peter? . And I so accept that at some point I have to simply trust that my senses-brain give me a more or less correct impression of my surroundings and of myself. Else I should lock myself in my room and wait until the end. But it is fruitful to think with doubt about such things if we don't raise doubt to some kind of golden rule. I prefer you to be Joe, even if nobody can give me the absolute proof for that. The Complex Nick Karagiaouroglou. (With such a family name I have to be complex ;-)) Greetings and thanks a lot for this posting. ==== > Is the HP49 the only cculator that can give an exact result? Can other > math software even do that? I don't know about other cculators but Mathematica or Maple can certainly give you the exact result. > Now I gotta find a way to approximate pi to like 1000 digits. In Mathematica you would enter N[Pi,1000]. Greetings, Nick. P.S. BTW, how long did the cculation of 9999! take on the cculator? ==== >The SIZE command works on integers, returning the number of digits. > >9999 ! DUP SIZE thus shows that 9999! is pretty close to >2.84625968E35655 I had the same problem on the 40G - counting digits of big integers. > Could it be that the SIZE command is different for the 40G? It seems > only to work for matrices where it gives the dimension of the matrix. Axel The SIZE command on the 39/40G only works on lists and matrices. There is a command XPON which gives the size of the exponent. XPON+1 would therefore be the number of digits. ==== > Now I gotta find a way to approximate pi to like 1000 digits. > > How about Gjermund's Longfloat library?? Nice library, just something I need for more accurate precision. Now I can surprise my physics professors with the degree of accuracy of my results. -- ==== > Now I gotta find a way to approximate pi to like 1000 digits. > > How about Gjermund's Longfloat library?? Nice library, just something I need for more accurate precision. > Now I can surprise my physics professors with the degree of accuracy of my > results. Re Physicists only are interested at the powers of ten. :-) About the estimate of the exponent without SIZE, how about looking at the log_10 ? Gerard ==== > Now I gotta find a way to approximate pi to like 1000 digits. > > How about Gjermund's Longfloat library?? > Nice library, just something I need for more accurate precision. > Now I can surprise my physics professors with the degree of accuracy of my > results. Re Physicists only are interested at the powers of ten. :-) LOL! > About the estimate of the exponent without SIZE, how about > looking at the log_10 ? Or using XPON (if available)? Greetings, Nick. ==== Paul Floyd meinte > The problem is that it cant aproximate it into scientific notation. > THe result is most useless unless you want to spend l day counting > the numbers or if only the last digit is important. > >The last digit is zero. In fact, I'd estimate that around the last 1999 >digits are zeros (since each element in the factori ending in a 0 adds >one zero, and each pair ending in 2 and 5 adds another zero, that makes >2 zeros per 10 elements). There was once a mini contest on this question in September 2000. It was initiated by Jonathan Busby in this group. Search google groups for MC: Factoris, zeros and such My contribution was: Provide the number (without ! ) and apply << 0 SWAP WHILE 5 / IP DUP REPEAT DUP ROT + SWAP END DROP > 9999! has 2495 trailing zeros. Gru¤ G.9fnter ==== > 9999! has 2495 trailing zeros. I didn't thing of the extra zeros that come from 20*50, 100, 1000 etc. A bientot Paul -- Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth) What happens if you have lead in your pants as well as lead in your pencil? ==== > Yes, I'll add some remark to Fontman.txt but the parameter changer > will continue to recculate modulo 256 (not 245). > That's a good solution. That way, intelligent users will know why to > avoid font ID's above 244, but will still be able to use a font ID > above 244 ... Well, knowing that an ID > 244 does cause problems in using the stylers is perhaps not a question of intelligence but of information :-) Fontman v.6 sets new Font Parameter (FP) in a diog box, for newbees. FP parameter changer. This clearly provides a faster user diog. JKH's FP changer has 332 bytes, my equivent FP changer has 136 bytes only and is much faster. What makes it particularly sml and fast is the nice new 49-command SREPL. ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/fonttools/ ==== im deutschen benutzerhandbuch des hp49g hat es auf der seite 10-2 ein beispielprogramm. leider bringe ich dieses nicht zum funktionieren. ich arbeite im gebraischen modus (le beispiele des handbuches sollen sich auf diesen modus beziehen!). wenn ich -> A eingebe (um einen wert in die variabel a einzulesen), so steht der cursor auf dem 'A' mit der fehlermeldung Invid Syntax . wo liegt das problem? muss ich eventuell flags anders setzen? wenn ich das gleiche beispielprgramm im RPN-modus ausf.9fhre, so kriege ich keine fehlermeldung!! aber das beispiel bezieht sich ja explizit auf den gebraischen modus! was mache ich fsch? vielen dank & mfg luigi ==== I am using the KEYMAN and I want to assign: If long press << Cmds > to key 41.1 and if norm press << ->Cmds > to the same key (41.1) note that is the same key but not the same way. ==== Put in level 2, the prg you want be executed when long pressing. In level 1, the one you get for norm pressing. Then do a long press on the IfD?L keyman's key and the two objects will be converted into a program in level 1. Now assign this program to the key you chose with A?D escribi.97 en el mensaje > I am using the KEYMAN and I want to assign: > > If long press << Cmds > to key 41.1 and > if norm press << ->Cmds > to the same key (41.1) > > note that is the same key but not the same way. ==== I'll look at my options and see how it goes. Your suggestions were helpful. eshylay ==== > you could so use Archiv 1.01, ... ItÇs a tiny tool IMHO, a lib of 3.8 bytes for a single task is not at l a tiny tool :-) IMHO, 3.8 bytes is nothing. Perhaps you meant 3.8 KB? -- ==== > you could so use Archiv 1.01, ... ItÇs a tiny tool > IMHO, a lib of 3.8 bytes for a single task is not at l a tiny tool > IMHO, 3.8 bytes is nothing. Perhaps you meant 3.8 KB? of the filers is on my site. Therein, the ARCHIVE/RESTORE choose box which appears over a port browser looks as follows, in Port2 say: |----------| |Port:2 | |----------| |ARCHIVE | |RESTORE | |SavePort0 | |RestPort0 | |----------| The content of Port0 can be saved in an arbitrary port. As for ARCHIVE, one may create sever Port0 backups in an arbitrary port while Andreas lows only Port2. Note that ARCHIVE and SavePort0 work independently on each-other. And SavePort0 stores in a Port0 backup a file or a library together with its untagged name only. This saves bytes for the user. Everything is as fast as it can be, i.e. not slower than the filer tools in gener. This is partly due to Werner's return-stack trick which is applied in the filers sever times. I need ML only in the Search option which is on the PHA key by now. This is the *only* use of PHA in my filers, in contrast to the builtin filer where many keys have so an PHA shifted functionity which, IMHO, unnecessarily complicates the filer. Both filers are < 2 KB though they obsolate in a sense Andreas's library and sever other tools, in particular most hiding facilities. For saving and restoring Port0, I need less than 150 bytes, not 3.8 KB. Andreas still prvides an elaborated memory control which, according to my experience, is not anymore required in ROM 19-6. ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/tools/ ==== > Moreover, it seems that archiving that covers port 0 > is useful for speci tasks only. > IMHO it is usefull in gener, because PORT0 is the fastest port and > PORT2 is the savest port, while programming on the cc can lead to a > TTRM once in a while the last cc-status can easily be restored. programmers, but perhaps not in gener. I meanwhile added two options (ArchivePort0 and RestorePort0) to the ARCHIVE/RESTORE browser of my filers (thanks for the idea). Nonetheless, these do not exceed 2 KB :) I cannot help saying that your programming style is fairly redundant, often observed in programs made with Debug2. IMHO, a tool should so minimize addition memory cost for using them. E.g., the port0-objects are saved in port2 with their tagged names in a list. This means a lot of extra bytes if port0 is long. Why tagged? The program itself could retag them. One should not overestimate the capacity of port2. With a few libs like extable or HPDemo, MIG musics, some games and greysce pictures (not to forget long lib-sources) it fills up very quickly :-) ==== Here's another one! Assume that two linear equations in X and Y are on the stack. << 'X' ISOL DUP UNROT SUBST 'Y' ISOL DUP UNROT SUBST EV > That's the substitution method we learned as children. It can be extended to solve a 3x3 system by adding another line, or to an NxN system by putting the whole thing in a loop. That's precisely the kind of homework (writing such programs) that I assigned to my students to help them learn the substitution method back in the days when we used HP programmable cculators in the classroom. *sigh* Gone are the days. ==== > Here's another one! Assume that two linear equations in X and Y are on the > stack. << 'X' ISOL DUP UNROT SUBST > 'Y' ISOL DUP UNROT SUBST EV > That's the substitution method we learned as children. It can be extended > to solve a 3x3 system by adding another line, or to an NxN system by putting > the whole thing in a loop. Nice! So the didactic part has so its representants. > That's precisely the kind of homework (writing > such programs) that I assigned to my students to help them learn the > substitution method back in the days when we used HP programmable > cculators in the classroom. Those happy fellas! > *sigh* Gone are the days. And even more *sigh*, I never had the luck to be in such a class! The days ended before I could see them starting. But after l, this group simply refuses to vanish! Defenders of the faith :-) ==== > Is there a command to complete the square? > sum or difference of squares. > GAUSS and its relatives seem to work only with X,Y and not with a single variable. For instance, if you put in 'X^2+2*X', it returns X^2 instead of the expected (X+1)^2-1. I'll have to root through the AUG for a while... worked rely well on my 48 (thanks, Aaron!). Maybe the 49 needs one too. Bill ==== Apologies if someone ready mentioned this: from http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030123/230090_1.html Press Release Source: HP HP Expands Its Cculator Line With Two New Offerings Thursday January 23, 11:01 am ET Powerful Graphic and Scientific Cculators Provide the Answers for Education Users News) today introduced two easy-to-use gebraic cculators designed specificly for the education market. The powerful cculators are so the first products to be launched as part of HP's wider plans to enhance and develop a full range of RPN (Reverse Polish Notation) and gebraic cculators for education and financi users. The HP 9g graphing cculator is an ide entry-level tool for secondary school students or for anyone requiring the ability to graph and solve simple equations. HP has included the functionity and convenience of a split screen for equations and graphing; a programmable feature lowing users to enter their own data and computations; a graphing key; quick and easy metric conversions; and the ability to work in a variety of system modes. The HP 9s scientific cculator is suited for the everyday user and middle and secondary school students solving basic math and science and related problems. It offers convenience and ease of use for everything from solving metric conversion problems to bancing a checkbook. Key product features include six common metric conversions, decim point selection, four basic operation modes and a one-touch button to edit statistics. The HP 9s and HP 9g are just the beginning of what we have in store for our customers throughout the coming year, said Fred Vdez, gener manager, Cculator Division, HP Person Systems Group. We've accelerated our product development plans and begun working with our new aggressive ses and marketing partners around the world. HP is partnering on ses and marketing with New Age Distributors in North America and Mexico, MORAVIA Consulting in Europe and Asia-Pacific and Abboud Trading in Latin America. The HP 9g and the HP 9s cculators are available in stores now at U.S. manufacturers' suggested retail prices of $39.95 and $14.99, respectively.(1) HP, the company that invented the scientific handheld cculator, offers a comprehensive range of cculators designed for math and science students, engineers, scientists, and financi and business consultants. More information about HP's entire range of cculators is available at http://www.hp.com/go/cculators. About HP HP is a leading glob provider of products, technologies, solutions and services to consumers and businesses. The company's offerings span IT infrastructure, person computing and access devices, glob services and imaging and printing. HP completed its merger transaction involving Compaq Computer Corporation on May 3, 2002. More information about HP is available at http://www.hp.com. (1) Actu prices may vary. This news release contains forward-looking statements that involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions. l statements other than statements of historic fact are statements that could be deemed forward-looking statements. Risks, uncertainties and assumptions include the possibility that the market for the se of certain products and services may not develop as expected; that development and performance of these products and services may not proceed as planned; and other risks that are described from time to time in HP's Securities and Exchange Commission reports, including but not limited to HP's quarterly report on Form 10-Q for the quarter ended July 31, 2002 and reports filed subsequent to HP's annu report on Form 10-K, as amended on January 30, 2002, for the fisc year ended October 31, 2001. If any of these risks or uncertainties materiizes or any of these assumptions proves incorrect, HP's results could differ materily from HP's expectations in these statements. HP assumes no obligation to update these forward-looking statements. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Contact: HP Lee-Khuan Goh, 858/655-3903 lee-khuan_goh@hp.com or Porter Novelli for HP Andrea Iraheta, 212/601-8162 andrea.iraheta@porternovelli.com ==== >We've accelerated our product development plans and begun working with >our new aggressive ses and marketing partners around the world. I'd rather de with a nice sesman than an aggressive one... :-) Oh yeah: hint to other posters in this thread: a one-word comment *does not* require the whole press release to be quoted. -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== >We've accelerated our product development plans and begun working with >our new aggressive ses and marketing partners around the world. I'd rather de with a nice sesman than an aggressive one... :-) Maybe this is how HP plans to compensate for the trash they've been putting on market. Instead of spending more dollars to make quity products, they spend those dollars to convince you that their stuff isn't rely trash, even though it looks and feels like it. Aaron ==== Sorry. -- Thierry Morissette thm47@msn.com ==== Powerful? -- Thierry Morissette thm47@msn.com > Apologies if someone ready mentioned this: from http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030123/230090_1.html Press Release Source: HP > HP Expands Its Cculator Line With Two New Offerings > Thursday January 23, 11:01 am ET > Powerful Graphic and Scientific Cculators Provide the Answers for Education Users > News) today introduced two easy-to-use gebraic cculators designed > specificly for the education market. The powerful cculators are > so the first products to be launched as part of HP's wider plans to > enhance and develop a full range of RPN (Reverse Polish Notation) and > gebraic cculators for education and financi users. The HP 9g graphing cculator is an ide entry-level tool for secondary school students or for anyone requiring the ability to graph and solve simple equations. HP has included the functionity and convenience of a split screen for equations and graphing; a programmable feature lowing users to enter their own data and computations; a graphing key; quick and easy metric conversions; and the ability to work in a variety of system modes. The HP 9s scientific cculator is suited for the everyday user and > middle and secondary school students solving basic math and science > and related problems. It offers convenience and ease of use for > everything from solving metric conversion problems to bancing a > checkbook. Key product features include six common metric conversions, > decim point selection, four basic operation modes and a one-touch > button to edit statistics. The HP 9s and HP 9g are just the beginning of what we have in store > for our customers throughout the coming year, said Fred Vdez, > gener manager, Cculator Division, HP Person Systems > Group. We've accelerated our product development plans and begun > working with our new aggressive ses and marketing partners around > the world. HP is partnering on ses and marketing with New Age Distributors in > North America and Mexico, MORAVIA Consulting in Europe and > Asia-Pacific and Abboud Trading in Latin America. The HP 9g and the HP 9s cculators are available in stores now at > U.S. manufacturers' suggested retail prices of $39.95 and $14.99, > respectively.(1) HP, the company that invented the scientific handheld cculator, > offers a comprehensive range of cculators designed for math and > science students, engineers, scientists, and financi and business > consultants. More information about HP's entire range of cculators > is available at http://www.hp.com/go/cculators. About HP HP is a leading glob provider of products, technologies, solutions > and services to consumers and businesses. The company's offerings span > IT infrastructure, person computing and access devices, glob > services and imaging and printing. HP completed its merger transaction > involving Compaq Computer Corporation on May 3, 2002. More information > about HP is available at http://www.hp.com. (1) Actu prices may vary. > This news release contains forward-looking statements that involve > risks, uncertainties and assumptions. l statements other than > statements of historic fact are statements that could be deemed > forward-looking statements. Risks, uncertainties and assumptions > include the possibility that the market for the se of certain > products and services may not develop as expected; that development > and performance of these products and services may not proceed as > planned; and other risks that are described from time to time in HP's > Securities and Exchange Commission reports, including but not limited > to HP's quarterly report on Form 10-Q for the quarter ended July 31, > 2002 and reports filed subsequent to HP's annu report on Form 10-K, > as amended on January 30, 2002, for the fisc year ended October 31, > 2001. If any of these risks or uncertainties materiizes or any of > these assumptions proves incorrect, HP's results could differ > materily from HP's expectations in these statements. HP assumes no > obligation to update these forward-looking statements. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > Contact: > HP > Lee-Khuan Goh, 858/655-3903 > lee-khuan_goh@hp.com > or > Porter Novelli for HP > Andrea Iraheta, 212/601-8162 > andrea.iraheta@porternovelli.com ==== Thierry Morissette schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Powerful? > Of course, compared to a four-banger. Seriously, I think they aren't that bad, except they're lacking RPN & the big ENTER key;-) Raymond > -- > Thierry Morissette > thm47@msn.com Apologies if someone ready mentioned this: from http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030123/230090_1.html Press Release Source: HP > HP Expands Its Cculator Line With Two New Offerings > Thursday January 23, 11:01 am ET > Powerful Graphic and Scientific Cculators Provide the Answers for > Education Users [..] I downloaded menulibs.txt from www.hpcc.org. It was created by J.Horn and contains an excellent list of HP 49G menu titles and menu numbers. Since it is dated 17 June 2000 and is based on ROM 1.19-1, I was wondering if there is an update available based on ROM 1.19-6?? GC. ==== > I downloaded menulibs.txt from www.hpcc.org. It was created by J.Horn and > contains an excellent list of HP 49G menu titles and menu numbers. Since it is > dated 17 June 2000 and is based on ROM 1.19-1, I was wondering if there is an > update available based on ROM 1.19-6?? > GC. According to Joe's post of the 23rd (Method of Parti Fractions thread), he's updated his HP49 text files. He didn't say if he uploaded them to hpcc, but they're on his web site and he included the link in his post. Bill ==== hi everybody, i would like to connect my hp82240a infrared printer to a pc. has anybody of you ever tried to do that or knows the protocol of the printer interface or the lower ir - protocol? thanks for l hints! ==== It's my first posting in this forum I hope I'm not a stupid man? I cannot add some days to an date in HP49 G I use the cculator since 2 days. Mode is G not RPN 1) 21,32001 in Diplay 2) CAT > Display DATE+ is activated 3) OK press 4) Display 21,32001 DATE+( ) 5) 25 in Diplay so that 6) Display 21,32001 DATE+(25) 7) ENTER 8) Message: DATE+ Error Too Few Arguments What's wrong in my work??? Hans Joachim (Ger) ==== jochen schrieb im Newsbeitrag It's my first posting in this forum > I hope I'm not a stupid man? I cannot add some days to an date in HP49 G > I use the cculator since 2 days. Mode is G not RPN 1) 21,32001 in Diplay > 2) CAT > Display DATE+ is activated > 3) OK press > 4) Display 21,32001 DATE+( ) > 5) 25 in Diplay so that > 6) Display 21,32001 DATE+(25) > 7) ENTER > 8) Message: DATE+ Error Too Few Arguments What's wrong in my work??? > Since I never used G mode, I'd suggest to switch to RPN first. Then adding days to a date is a trivi task. If you have entered 21,32001 as you did, you'll get an error because it's not a vid date format. Please enter 21,032001 and everything will go fine. This is because the year part starts in the third place to the right of the decim sign. To add days to a given date, just put the number of days in level 1, then perform DATE+ That's l. Raymond ==== thanks for the fast answers of both ;-) Now it works. BUT yesterday I have done the cculation in the same way as the handbook say. By the way I think that the documentation of the HP49 G is very bad. The handbooks of HP48 GX or HP48 SX is mutch better, I know both. The information in the earlier handbooks is more detailed. Now I will say that it's good that I found this living newsgroup to help me with sml problems in the future ;-) Hans Joachim (Ger) jochen schrieb im Newsbeitrag It's my first posting in this forum > I hope I'm not a stupid man? I cannot add some days to an date in HP49 G > I use the cculator since 2 days. Mode is G not RPN 1) 21,32001 in Diplay > 2) CAT > Display DATE+ is activated > 3) OK press > 4) Display 21,32001 DATE+( ) > 5) 25 in Diplay so that > 6) Display 21,32001 DATE+(25) > 7) ENTER > 8) Message: DATE+ Error Too Few Arguments What's wrong in my work??? Since I never used G mode, I'd suggest to switch to RPN first. > Then adding days to a date is a trivi task. If you have entered 21,32001 as you did, > you'll get an error because it's not a vid date format. > Please enter 21,032001 and everything will go fine. This is because the year part starts in the > third place to the right of the decim sign. To add days to a given date, just put the number of days in level 1, > then perform DATE+ That's l. > Raymond ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** DATE+ takes two(2) arguments. for example in G mode do : DATE+(date, date to add) Demo By the way, NOONE USES G MODE :-) once you get used to RPN, you will understand why.... -- Demo Fight the spam, click on the link! http://www.hostedscripts.com/scripts/antispam.html Fight Spam! Click Here! Raymond Del Tondo p.92se v diskusn.92m jochen schrieb im Newsbeitrag It's my first posting in this forum > I hope I'm not a stupid man? I cannot add some days to an date in HP49 G > I use the cculator since 2 days. Mode is G not RPN 1) 21,32001 in Diplay > 2) CAT > Display DATE+ is activated > 3) OK press > 4) Display 21,32001 DATE+( ) > 5) 25 in Diplay so that > 6) Display 21,32001 DATE+(25) > 7) ENTER > 8) Message: DATE+ Error Too Few Arguments What's wrong in my work??? Since I never used G mode, I'd suggest to switch to RPN first. > Then adding days to a date is a trivi task. If you have entered 21,32001 as you did, > you'll get an error because it's not a vid date format. > Please enter 21,032001 and everything will go fine. This is because the year part starts in the > third place to the right of the decim sign. To add days to a given date, just put the number of days in level 1, > then perform DATE+ That's l. > Raymond -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Do you want the recursion which takes ~ 20min. to cculate on HP48 to get l digits correct ? Or some kind of simplified expresion(which I haven't found yet:-) ? -- Demo Fight the spam, click on the link! http://www.hostedscripts.com/scripts/antispam.html Fight Spam! Click Here! Joseph K. Horn p.92.8ae v diskusn.92m p[CapitThorn].92sp.9evku > Is it a new Mini-chlenge for RPL programmers? > Or is it mathematic recreation for number aficionados? It's BOTH! > ===== BACKGROUND ===== Everybody knows about the famous, fabulous Fibonacci sequence that starts > like this: 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 ... Each Fibonacci number is obtained by adding the previous two Fibonacci > numbers; for example, the 55 was obtained by adding 21+34. Therefore, the > next Fibonacci number is 34+55 which is 89. If we cl F(N) the Nth Fibonacci number, then the recursive formula is: F(0) = 0 > F(1) = 1 > F(N) = 1*F(N-2) + 1*F(N-1) Why are those 1*s in there? Because of what's to follow... stay tuned... One of the interesting things about Fibonacci numbers is the ratio of > consecutive terms, F(N)/F(N-1): 1/1 = 1 > 2/1 = 2 > 3/2 = 1.5 > 5/3 = 1.66666666666... > 8/5 = 1.6 > 13/8 = 1.625 > 21/13 = 1.6153846153846... > 34/21 = 1.6190476190476... > 55/34 = 1.6176470588235... > 89/55 = 1.6181818181818... As you can see, the successive ratios ternate between getting bigger and > getting smler, approaching some number as a limit. That number is cled > the golden ratio (or golden mean), which is exactly equ to > (1+sqrt(5))/2, approximately 1.6180339887498948482... Fibonacci numbers and their ratios are well known. Less well known are Pell > numbers and their ratios. The Pell sequence starts like this: 1 2 5 12 29 70 169 408 985 ... Each Pell number is obtained by adding *twice* the previous number to the > number before that; for example, the 70 is obtained by doubling 29 and then > adding 12. Therefore, the next Pell number is 408 + 2*985 which is 2378. If we cl P(N) the Nth Pell number, then the recursive formula is: P(0) = 0 > P(1) = 1 > P(N) = 1*P(N-2) + 2*P(N-1) Note well: this is identic to the definition of the Fibonacci sequence, > except instead of 1* and 1* in the last line, this one has 1* and 2*. The ratio of consecutive Pell numbers exhibits a behavior similar to what we > saw with the Fibonacci numbers above. Successive P(N)/P(N-1) are: 2/1 = 2 > 5/2 = 2.5 > 12/5 = 2.4 > 29/12 = 2.416666666666666... > 70/29 = 2.41379310344827586... > 169/70 = 2.414285714285714... > 408/169 = 2.41420118343195... > 985/408 = 2.4142156862745... > 2378/985 = 2.414213197969543... Does the fraction part look familiar? It should. The process is > approaching the limit of sqrt(2)+1. Now, suppose we generize this. Instead of 1* or 2*, use X* and Y* in the > definition of the sequence. Would the ratio of consecutive terms still > approach a limit? Yes. Can a User4 RPL program be written to find that > limit? Yes. Can *you* write such a program? Yes. Can you write the > *best* program? Maybe! > ===== THE MINI-CHLENGE ===== Write a User RPL program that Generizes the above process for the > Generized Sequence, namely, it takes X and Y as inputs, and returns the > ratio of G(N+1)/G(N) as N approaches infinity, where G(N) is defined by the > recursive formula: G(0) = 0 > G(1) = 1 > G(N) = X*G(N-2) + Y*G(N-1) Input: X and Y > Output: limit of G(N)/G(N-1) as N approaches infinity. Examples: Input: 1 1 <--- the Fibonacci sequence > Output: (1+sqrt(5))/2 Input: 1 2 <--- the Pell sequence > Output: 1+sqrt(2) Input: 2 1 <--- the sequence { 1 1 3 5 11 21 43 ... } > Output: 2 Input: 2 2 <--- the sequence { 1 2 6 16 44 120 ... } > Output: 1+sqrt(3) There will be two winners: the smlest HP48 User RPL program that returns > the correct answer in *decim* form, and the smlest HP49 User RPL program > that returns the correct answer in *exact* form. Happy Programming! -Joe- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== > Do you want the recursion which takes ~ 20min. to cculate > on HP48 to get l digits correct ? Or some kind of simplified > expresion(which I haven't found yet:-) ? Whichever you prefer. Remember, the *smlest* one wins, not the fastest. -Joe- ==== > I've got a 48g that won't turn on or off reliably. It appears that the ON > button contacts stick together. If I spray contact cleaner through the gaps > around the key to clean off the contact, is it going to mess up or destroy > anything in the cculator? Should I remove the batteries (thus losing l > my programs) during this process? > I have cleaned the keys on a HP48SX successfully with tuner cleaner from Radio Shack, I do not remember it's exact name but it came in a red spray can with a straw. I took the sx outside and sprayed the keyboard until the solvent ran clear. I left it hanging verticly for sever hours until it dried out. Oh, I removed the batteries just in case! The SX work fine for sever months. I do not know about long term because it it was stolen. I have 2 SX's and a GX. The SX rules! ==== ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????ò? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ??????????????????????????????????????? ==== IÇve for a very long time had some problems with my cc restarting, but now > IÇve got a brand new hp49G cc and loaded it with the library of equations > 0.1 from hpcc.org and it didnÇt take long before my cc did a soft > reboot again. What does everybody else have to say about that? > I use James Purdy's eql49r27 and it doesn't seem to cause any problems, other than an annoying advertisement for itself that appears with every warmstart, but I removed that from $CONFIG. The library has l (or nearly l) the equations from the HP48 library. Bill ==== > I use James Purdy's eql49r27 and it doesn't seem to cause any > problems, other than an annoying advertisement for itself that appears > with every warmstart, but I removed that from $CONFIG. The library > has l (or nearly l) the equations from the HP48 library. Damn! I hoped I could figure it out myself, but now I have to ask how I remove that annoying advertisement from $CONFIG... IÇve searched google groups for questions about that but I find it hard to get an answer, unfortunately... IÇve so instled a library cled bios49, which I so canÇt figure out how to get rid of when warmstarting my cc... I hope someone please could help me... (IÇm not too lazy to read the manus, but IÇve just collected so many, that I canÇt manage to read them l...) > Bill Martin J. ==== > I hoped I could figure it out myself, but now I have to ask how I remove > that > annoying advertisement from $CONFIG... I'll just give an outline, since I don't know your skill level and don't want to plow you under if you're new at it. You'll need OT49 or other library splitter (Wolfgang's programs are as good as they get). Assuming OT49: put the library number on the stack and use the D<->L command to write it into Port 0 (Home dir) as a directory. Overwrite $CONFIG with this little program: << libnum ATTACH >, where libnum is the equation library number (I can't remember what it is). Use D<->L again from inside the new version's directory and you'll have the eq library back on the stack with the changes made. If you store it in Port 0, the cc will attach it first and ignore the origin, which I assume you have in Port 1 or 2. Once you've confirmed that the new version works okay, you can purge the origin and move the new one to Port 1 or 2. Good luck, Bill ==== > You'll need OT49 or other library splitter (Wolfgang's programs are as > good as they get). That solved the problem... Very interesting, that OT49 program! I think IÇll have to work some more with this one :-) Martin J. ==== > IÇve so instled a library cled bios49, which I so canÇt figure out > how to > get rid of when warmstarting my cc... Cool... now IÇve found out, that I should just delete the STARTUP variable for this one... But still, as far for $CONFIG, I donÇt understand what to do... I hope I shouldnÇt compile the library l over from the source code, as I expect one would do when changing program code for norm computer-code programs. Martin J. ==== > I use James Purdy's eql49r27 and it doesn't seem to cause any > problems, other than an annoying advertisement for itself that appears > with every warmstart, but I removed that from $CONFIG. The library > has l (or nearly l) the equations from the HP48 library. IÇve tried that one, now... It seems like the formulas are the same. I hope youÇre right, that this one has no problems... IÇve just tried it for about 5 minutes and it returned a memory insufficient message... Hmm. It better not be my cc, which is faulty, since IÇve just got a brand new one.... Hope to hearing from others, if theyÇre experiencing similar problems with equation libraryÇs... Martin J. ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Today I searched the web and on http://www.hpmuseum.org/saturn.htm there is something about C compiler under construction. Has anyone ever seen it ? And so on this site http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/48faq-8.html (8.2 Is there ...) but the link is broken, does anyone have it ? Demo Fight the spam, click on the link! http://www.hostedscripts.com/scripts/antispam.html Fight Spam! Click Here! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== I've been trying to simpify the following EXP(3*LN(10)*5^X) on the 49G CAS. I believe the result should be 100^(5^X) if you simplify it with EXP2POW, but it does not do this. Is there any way to simplify this or write a program that could simplify equations of these types? It would be much easier with larger equations. I wouldn't have to think too hard ;) After l, I think simplification abilities are necessary for any CAS. Sometimes it is tricky to get the 49G to display the 'desired' result. -- ==== I've been trying to simpify the following EXP(3*LN(10)*5^X) on the 49G CAS. I believe the result should be 100^(5^X) 1000^(5^X), perhaps. -- ==== The good old 48 gives 99,9999999992^(5^X) using COLCT EXPAN COLCT Using the old Eq editor's gebraic rules, you can get the exact solution: 100^(5*X) ==== A little bit of pencil and paper gebra goes a long way (or is that not lowed in this sort of chlenge?). For the norm Fibonacci sequence, F(n)=1*F(n-1)+1*F(n-2), we assume that at the limit as n->infinity, we have r = F(n+1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1). Rearranging gives: [F(n)+F(n-1)]/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) => F(n)/F(n) + F(n-1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) => 1 + 1/r = r => r^2 - r -1 = 0 => r = (1 +/- sqrt5)/2 In this case, because of the way the problem was set up, r = (1+sqrt5)/2 You can do a similar process for any such formula. For example, it is quite easy to use this method to demonstrate that the ratio for the Pell sequence is 1+sqrt2. In gener, if the formula is F(n)=a*F(n-1) + b*F(n-2) then the vue is given by: r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 Not having a 49G I can't give you a program for this but I would imagine that the formula would make it pretty compact. I suppose the re chlenge is that we know that a and b are not just any vues but are sequenti elements of the Fibonacci sequence. The question therefore is - can this expression for r be simplified further by using this fact? > Is it a new Mini-chlenge for RPL programmers? > Or is it mathematic recreation for number aficionados? It's BOTH! > ===== BACKGROUND ===== Everybody knows about the famous, fabulous Fibonacci sequence that starts > like this: 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 ... Each Fibonacci number is obtained by adding the previous two Fibonacci > numbers; for example, the 55 was obtained by adding 21+34. Therefore, the > next Fibonacci number is 34+55 which is 89. If we cl F(N) the Nth Fibonacci number, then the recursive formula is: F(0) = 0 > F(1) = 1 > F(N) = 1*F(N-2) + 1*F(N-1) Why are those 1*s in there? Because of what's to follow... stay tuned... One of the interesting things about Fibonacci numbers is the ratio of > consecutive terms, F(N)/F(N-1): 1/1 = 1 > 2/1 = 2 > 3/2 = 1.5 > 5/3 = 1.66666666666... > 8/5 = 1.6 > 13/8 = 1.625 > 21/13 = 1.6153846153846... > 34/21 = 1.6190476190476... > 55/34 = 1.6176470588235... > 89/55 = 1.6181818181818... As you can see, the successive ratios ternate between getting bigger and > getting smler, approaching some number as a limit. That number is cled > the golden ratio (or golden mean), which is exactly equ to > (1+sqrt(5))/2, approximately 1.6180339887498948482... Fibonacci numbers and their ratios are well known. Less well known are Pell > numbers and their ratios. The Pell sequence starts like this: 1 2 5 12 29 70 169 408 985 ... Each Pell number is obtained by adding *twice* the previous number to the > number before that; for example, the 70 is obtained by doubling 29 and then > adding 12. Therefore, the next Pell number is 408 + 2*985 which is 2378. If we cl P(N) the Nth Pell number, then the recursive formula is: P(0) = 0 > P(1) = 1 > P(N) = 1*P(N-2) + 2*P(N-1) Note well: this is identic to the definition of the Fibonacci sequence, > except instead of 1* and 1* in the last line, this one has 1* and 2*. The ratio of consecutive Pell numbers exhibits a behavior similar to what we > saw with the Fibonacci numbers above. Successive P(N)/P(N-1) are: 2/1 = 2 > 5/2 = 2.5 > 12/5 = 2.4 > 29/12 = 2.416666666666666... > 70/29 = 2.41379310344827586... > 169/70 = 2.414285714285714... > 408/169 = 2.41420118343195... > 985/408 = 2.4142156862745... > 2378/985 = 2.414213197969543... Does the fraction part look familiar? It should. The process is > approaching the limit of sqrt(2)+1. Now, suppose we generize this. Instead of 1* or 2*, use X* and Y* in the > definition of the sequence. Would the ratio of consecutive terms still > approach a limit? Yes. Can a User4 RPL program be written to find that > limit? Yes. Can *you* write such a program? Yes. Can you write the > *best* program? Maybe! > ===== THE MINI-CHLENGE ===== Write a User RPL program that Generizes the above process for the > Generized Sequence, namely, it takes X and Y as inputs, and returns the > ratio of G(N+1)/G(N) as N approaches infinity, where G(N) is defined by the > recursive formula: G(0) = 0 > G(1) = 1 > G(N) = X*G(N-2) + Y*G(N-1) Input: X and Y > Output: limit of G(N)/G(N-1) as N approaches infinity. Examples: Input: 1 1 <--- the Fibonacci sequence > Output: (1+sqrt(5))/2 Input: 1 2 <--- the Pell sequence > Output: 1+sqrt(2) Input: 2 1 <--- the sequence { 1 1 3 5 11 21 43 ... } > Output: 2 Input: 2 2 <--- the sequence { 1 2 6 16 44 120 ... } > Output: 1+sqrt(3) There will be two winners: the smlest HP48 User RPL program that returns > the correct answer in *decim* form, and the smlest HP49 User RPL program > that returns the correct answer in *exact* form. Happy Programming! -Joe- ==== > In gener, if the formula is F(n)=a*F(n-1) + b*F(n-2) then the vue is > given by: r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 Perhaps an interesting chlenge might be to write a program that will take as input any given surd such as root 2 and give as output the appropriate pair of consecutive Fibonacci numbers that will give (plus or minus a fraction) a fraction approximation to that surd and the fraction which approximates it correctly to n decim places. For example, we saw earlier that using {1,2} (the Pell sequence) gives root2+1, so an input of root2 into our new chlenge should output {1,2} with an adjustment of -1. Using this, and the Pell sequence of {1,2,5,12,29,70,169...} the approximations to root2 become: 2/1-1 = 1 5/2-1 = 3/2 (1.5) 12/5-1 = 7/5 (1.4) 29/12-1 = 17/12 (1.416666) and the fraction which approximates root 2 to 4 decim places is: 169/70-1 = 99/70. I have no idea whether this is even possible, it just seemed an interesting extension of the problem. However, there needs to be a bit of clarification to this first, so here's a question for Joseph... Why does the Pell sequence start with 1,2? If it is simply the Fibonacci sequence with a modified rule then why is the Pell sequence not {1,1,3,7,17,41...} instead of {1,2,5,12,29...}? Before anyone starts working on this new problem (if anyone wants to) could you clarify for us, Joseph, how to derive the first two terms of our base sequence? Are they the coefficients of the new rule? ie if the new defining rule is T(n)=a*T(n-1)+b*T(n-2) then are the first two terms {b,a}? If not what are they? ==== > if the new defining rule is T(n)=a*T(n-1)+b*T(n-2) then are > the first two terms {b,a}? If not what are they? IMHO, such a recursion is badly written. What is for n=0? Simply write T(n+2) = a* T(n+1) + b*T(n) to avoid any discussion. The initi vues T(0) and T(1) do not play any role in my precise proof of r= a + b/r for the limes r of [T(n+1)/T(n)], as long as they are positive. Thus, the limes of the sequence [T(n+1)/T(n)] is the same for the same a,b, no matter what your choice is for T(0) and T(1), at least not as long these are not negative. ==== > Your derivation of the formula r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 is not quite > but nearly correct. > Under the assumption the sequence [q_n] with q_n = F(n+1)/F(n) is > convergent with limit r, say - and JKH definitely lows this > assumption - one can argue as follows: F(n+2) = a*F(n+1) + b*F(n). > Division by F(n+1) yields q(n+1) = a + b/q(n). Now, as is well known, > the limes operation and arithmetic base operations commute. Hence, > lim [a + b/q(n)] = a + b/r. Clearly, so lim [q(n+1] = r. Therefore, > r = a + b/r. Now, this is equivent to r = [sqrt(a^2 + 4b)]/2 as long > as r is positive (which it is :-) Incidently, you said that my result of r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 was 'nearly' correct. I think that if you check more carefully you will find that it is your vue which is incorrect. Your working above is most exactly the same as the working I quoted in my initi posting and r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 is simply the positive root of the quadratic r = a + b/r. Try checking your CAS and you will simply get my result. ==== > Your derivation of the formula r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 is not quite > but nearly correct. > Incidently, you said that my result of r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 was > 'nearly' correct. > For the norm Fibonacci sequence, F(n)=1*F(n-1)+1*F(n-2), we assume > that at the limit as n->infinity, we have r = F(n+1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1). This is mathematicly confusing and even meaningless. Let's omit that you didn't mention n > 1 in your recursion formula. I concentrate on the essenti. The equation r = F(n+1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) is simply fse for each n > 1 because it follows from the context that you reserved r for the limes of the sequence [F(n+1)/F(n)], hence is a constant. And what means at the limit as n->infinity? This does not make sense as well, even linguisticly. You continue > [F(n)+F(n-1)]/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) > => F(n)/F(n) + F(n-1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) This is correct, and you coud have started just with these equations, omitting the previous nonsense completely. Next you write > => 1 + 1/r = r This is a critic step. It should have been at least mentioned that the lim operation commutes with the arithmetic operations + and / which is not at l trivi. Here is so essentily used that lim [F(n+1)/F(n)] rely exist. Next you write > I think that if you check more carefully you will find > that it is your vue which is incorrect. Nothing in my first reply to your post was incorrect, apart from my precipitate propos to make you the winner which I herewith withdraw. > Your working above is most exactly the same as the working I quoted > in my initi posting What means most? The style makes the difference. Better you'd not have replied too fast. You (and me as well) would have saved time :-) ==== >Incidently, you said that my result of r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 was >'nearly' correct. > > > In fact, what you said in your earlier posting was... > Hence, > lim [a + b/q(n)] = a + b/r. Clearly, so lim [q(n+1] = r. Therefore, > r = a + b/r. Now, this is equivent to r = [sqrt(a^2 + 4b)]/2 as long > as r is positive (which it is :-) Your formula was r = [sqrt(a^2 + 4b)]/2, whereas my formula for the vue of r was r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 . It seems to me that since our formulas are different it would have been difficult for me not to draw the conclusion that you were saying I was wrong in my formula. As for your criticism: > The equation r = F(n+1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) is simply fse for > each n > 1 Of course it is! That's why I said as n tends to infinity. The vues are of course never precisely equ but as n approaches infinity the fractions can be manipulated as units if they were equ (as you did too except you cled them q(n+1)). In the interests of brevity, bearing in mind how difficult it is to write mathematic formulae readably in ascii, I had not written it strictly correctly. Oh dear, how sad. Most people reading it would have interpreted it, as you apparently did as: lim F(n+1) lim F(n) r = n->inf ------ = n->inf ------ F(n) F(n-1) > Let's omit that you didn't mention n > 1 in your recursion formula. Again, oh dear, how sad. I assumed a certain degree of intelligence on the part of the reader as I did in the limit working. Sue me. > This is a critic step. It should have been at least mentioned that > the lim operation commutes with the arithmetic operations + and / > which is not at l trivi. Here is so essentily used that > lim [F(n+1)/F(n)] rely exist. Next you write I was not intending to present a textbook example of a limit problem. If I had included complete justification of every step I would have written so much that people would have missed the point in l the verbiage. **This is not a maths forum.** I had a conversation with a drunken university mathematics professor a few days ago who told me in tedious detail that by encouraging the use of graphic cculators in high school I was damaging the prospects of the students and corrupting the purity of the study of mathematics. He felt that maths students should not be lowed anything more than pencil and paper and log tables and spent some time telling me that every student should be able to prove everything from first principles. It sounds as if you would sympathise with him. I'm not normly this blunt in a posting. You've succeed in pissing me off. Congratulations. I won't be responding to any further postings on this topic. Frankly I don't care whether or not I won. That was never my intention in the first place. ==== > As for your criticism: > The equation r = F(n+1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) is simply fse for > each n > 1 > Of course it is! That's why I said as n tends to infinity. With this formulation you would not pass any university examination in math. Learning linguistic discipline is a bacis task in math education, and the most difficult to learn. What could clearly be said should clearly be said. It's most ways shorter than any confusing text, in particular in the derivation of the formula under discussion. In my 1st reply I even accepted your confusing text and tried politely to correct it. If I'd known your arrogance I wouldn't have done that. university professor in math would have uttered such stupid things even if he is totly drunk. I ways encourage my students in math and info to use graphic cculators. And many students are happy doing this. ==== if the new defining rule is T(n)=a*T(n-1)+b*T(n-2) then are >the first two terms {b,a}? If not what are they? > IMHO, such a recursion is badly written. What is for n=0? Simply write > T(n+2) = a* T(n+1) + b*T(n) to avoid any discussion. How can it matter whether we define the rule for n=>0 or for n=>2? The rule is mathematicly and practicly the same. > The initi vues T(0) and T(1) do not play any role in my precise > proof of r= a + b/r for the limes r of [T(n+1)/T(n)], as long as they > are positive. Granted, but irrelevant. They do for producing the successive fraction approximations as I outlined. Hence my question to Joseph. ==== > A little bit of pencil and paper gebra goes a long way (or is that > not lowed in this sort of chlenge?). That should, IMHO, of course be lowed. It's math in action :-) Your derivation of the formula r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 is not quite but nearly correct. Hence, *you* should be the winner since it it easy to compute r for given a and b explicitely, both in approximative and in exact mode. low me to present a precise proof of your formula. Under the assumption the sequence [q_n] with q_n = F(n+1)/F(n) is convergent with limit r, say - and JKH definitely lows this assumption - one can argue as follows: F(n+2) = a*F(n+1) + b*F(n). Division by F(n+1) yields q(n+1) = a + b/q(n). Now, as is well known, the limes operation and arithmetic base operations commute. Hence, lim [a + b/q(n)] = a + b/r. Clearly, so lim [q(n+1] = r. Therefore, r = a + b/r. Now, this is equivent to r = [sqrt(a^2 + 4b)]/2 as long as r is positive (which it is :-) Note that this has been proven for l res a,b as long as a^2 +4b > 0, not only for natur numbers a,b. ==== > A little bit of pencil and paper gebra goes a long way (or is that > not lowed in this sort of chlenge?). That should, IMHO, of course be lowed. It's math in action :-) Your derivation of the formula r = [a + sqrt(a^2+4b)]/2 is not quite >but nearly correct. Hence, *you* should be the winner since it it easy >to compute r for given a and b explicitely, both in approximative and >in exact mode. low me to present a precise proof of your formula. We, Virgil and I, were of course using this same exact formula l ong, before Colin's post. It's seems Virgil was solving the equation manuly. I was trying it with PROOT in my first two solutions and then I switched to manuly solving the equation in my last two. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== > We, Virgil and I, were of course using this same exact formula l > ong, before Colin's post. It's seems Virgil was solving the equation > manuly. I was trying it with PROOT in my first two solutions and > then I switched to manuly solving the equation in my last two. Actuly, I was doing it as a vector space problem. Given recursion formula f(n+2) = a*f(n+1) + b*f(n), one easily gets the vector recursion formula [f(n+2) f(n+1)] = [[a b][1 0]]*[f(n+1) f(n)], and initi vector [1 0]. The eigenvues of [[a b][1 0]], using EGVL, are a/2 +- sqrt((a/2)^2 + b), and it should be obvious that under iteration most any vector will be rotated towards parlelism to the eigenvector having the largest (in absolute vue) eigenvue, namely, [ a/2 + sqrt((a/2)^2+b) 1] . Note that if e is either eigenvue of M = [[a b][1 0]] then [[a b][1 0]]*[e 1] = e*[e 1] = [e^2 e]. The ratio of f(n+1) to f(n) then will converge to that eigenvue. The only exceptions would be for initi vectors parlel to the other eigenvector, e.g., [ a/2-sqrt((a/2)^2+b) 1], which initi vector [1 0] is not. So my origin cculations took '[[a b][1 0]]' and executed EGVL on it. ==== , > Is it a new Mini-chlenge for RPL programmers? > Or is it mathematic recreation for number aficionados? It's BOTH! > ===== BACKGROUND ===== Write a User RPL program that Generizes the above process for the > Generized Sequence, namely, it takes X and Y as inputs, and returns the > ratio of G(N+1)/G(N) as N approaches infinity, where G(N) is defined by the > recursive formula: G(0) = 0 > G(1) = 1 > G(N) = X*G(N-2) + Y*G(N-1) Input: X and Y > Output: limit of G(N)/G(N-1) as N approaches infinity. Examples: Input: 1 1 <--- the Fibonacci sequence > Output: (1+sqrt(5))/2 Input: 1 2 <--- the Pell sequence > Output: 1+sqrt(2) Input: 2 1 <--- the sequence { 1 1 3 5 11 21 43 ... } > Output: 2 Input: 2 2 <--- the sequence { 1 2 6 16 44 120 ... } > Output: 1+sqrt(3) There will be two winners: the smlest HP48 User RPL program that returns > the correct answer in *decim* form, and the smlest HP49 User RPL program > that returns the correct answer in *exact* form. Happy Programming! -Joe- Assuming a 49 in exact mode, X and Y positive and exact expressions, not necessarily integers, and on the stack with X in level 2 and Y in level 1, I have a program of 32.5 bytes, with checksum # 12306d which produces the desired results. The same program will work on the HP48, producing the best approximations to the exact vues, but a slightly shorter program so works, with only 30 bytes and checksum #22216d. The shorter program so works on the HP49 giving correct exact, but sometimes less simplified, answers. On the 49, the shorter program so has 30 bytes, but has checksum # 16913d. ==== Generized Sequence, namely, it takes X and Y as inputs, and returns the >ratio of G(N+1)/G(N) as N approaches infinity, where G(N) is defined by the >recursive formula: G(0) = 0 >G(1) = 1 >G(N) = X*G(N-2) + Y*G(N-1) Input: X and Y >Output: limit of G(N)/G(N-1) as N approaches infinity. Examples: There will be two winners: the smlest HP48 User RPL program that returns >the correct answer in *decim* form, and the smlest HP49 User RPL program >that returns the correct answer in *exact* form. Happy Programming! -Joe- > My first solution for the 48 : Bytes: 35.5 Checksum: # E8F6h Time: Executes instantaneously. (pretty much ;) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== My first solution for the 48 : Bytes: 35.5 >Checksum: # E8F6h >Time: Executes instantaneously. (pretty much ;) > Now it's down to 33 bytes. Checksum # 2C1Dh . ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== >My first solution for the 48 : Bytes: 35.5 >Checksum: # E8F6h >Time: Executes instantaneously. (pretty much ;) >Now it's down to 33 bytes. Checksum # 2C1Dh . > And now down to 32.5 bytes. Checksum # BF9Fh . ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== >My first solution for the 48 : Bytes: 35.5 >Checksum: # E8F6h >Time: Executes instantaneously. (pretty much ;) >Now it's down to 33 bytes. Checksum # 2C1Dh . And now down to 32.5 bytes. Checksum # BF9Fh . > I've now got it down to 30 bytes after a sml simplification. The checksum is # 56C8h which happens to be the same as Virgil's 30 byte solution! I guess we converged to the same program. Anyway, in order to prove that I actuly came up with this one here is the code ;) : (scroll down a screenful or two to see it) << 2 / DUP SQ ROT + SQRT + > The simplification comes from reizing the fact that if you distribute the 2 in the denominator of the quadratic formula (including inside the square root) you end up with two terms : X/2 and X^2/4 . Since X^2/4 = (X/2)^2 and since the distribution canceled out the 4 in the 4*Y term you can re-use the X/2 vue and save 2.5 bytes by not having to perform a multiplication *and* a division, only a division. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== > The simplification comes from reizing the fact that if you > distribute the 2 in the denominator of the quadratic formula > (including inside the square root) you end up with two terms : > X/2 and X^2/4 . Since X^2/4 = (X/2)^2 and since the > distribution canceled out the 4 in the 4*Y term you can re-use > the X/2 vue and save 2.5 bytes by not having to perform a > multiplication *and* a division, only a division. Elegant! It beats my 35-byte solution! Can it be shrunk beyond 30 bytes? I seriously doubt it, in which case you win! Sub-chlenge: Given a desired *output* to the above program, what are l the possible integer inputs? -Joe- ==== of JB for computing r = b/2 + SQRT(SQ(b/2)+a) which is the positive root of x^2 -bx -a = 0 for positive res a,b, and equly the limes of the sequence [f(n+1)/f(n)] if the sequence f obeys f(n+2)= a*f(n)+b*f(n+1), with an arbitrary positive start vue f(0). > Elegant! It beats my 35-byte solution! Can it be shrunk beyond 30 bytes? I seriously doubt it, in which case you win! What is elegant here? It's the most stright-forward programming of the solution term in UsrRPL. Here is my solution, 28 bytes only: << -1 UNROT ->V3 PROOT 2 GET > which is, apart from swapping the 2 arguments, equivent to the above. Argument swapping should not count. My program reads the re a first which may considered even more natur. You decide whether you admit UNROT which is definitely a 49 UsrRPL command, but not on the 48 :-) As you see, the essenti in my approach is the triviity that a polynomi and its additive inverse have the same roots. ==== of JB for computing r = b/2 + SQRT(SQ(b/2)+a) which is the positive root of x^2 -ax -b = 0 for positive res a,b > Elegant! It beats my 35-byte solution! Can it be shrunk beyond 30 bytes? I seriously doubt it, in which case you win! What is elegant here? It's the most stright-forward programming of the term in UsrRPL. Here is my solution, 28 bytes only: << -1 UNROT ->V3 PROOT 2 GET > which is, apart from swapping the 2 arguments, equivent to the above. Arugment swapping should not count. My program first reads a and then b in solving the equation x^2 -ax -b = 0 which may considered even more natur. Decide yourself whether you admit UNROT which is definitely a 49 UsrRPL command, but not on the 48 :-) As you see, the essenti in my approach is the triviity that a polynomi and its negation have the same roots. ==== Hahaha! I got the exact result for g[n+1]/g[n] with Mathematica! Should be pretty easy to take the limit ;-) In[1]:= <Infinity]; In[4]:= func[1,1] 1 + Sqrt[5] Out[4]= ----------- 2 In[5]:= func[1,2] Out[5]= 1 + Sqrt[2] In[6]:= func[2,1] Out[6]= 2 In[7]:= func[2,2] Out[7]= 1 + Sqrt[3] Out[8]= Mathematica 4.2 for Microsoft Windows (August 23, 2002) -- ==== ich besitze den HP49G, nur habe ich das Problem das das Display vom Rechner sehr dunkel ist. Gibt es M.9aglichkeiten das zu .8andern oder ist dies ein Hardwarefehler? Batterien habe ich schon gewechselt, leider kein Erfolg. dieter ==== Press the keys [ON] and [-] or [ON] and [+] together to adjust contrast. Caspar dieter schreef in bericht > ich besitze den HP49G, nur habe ich das Problem das das Display vom Rechner > sehr dunkel ist. Gibt es M.9aglichkeiten das zu .8andern oder ist dies ein > Hardwarefehler? Batterien habe ich schon gewechselt, leider kein Erfolg. > dieter > ==== > Press the keys [ON] and [-] or [ON] and [+] together to adjust contrast. Caspar > thank you for your tip :) dieter ==== when I turn ON the HP49G I can see for a short time verticly white lines in the display. Is that norm? By my HP48 there is not so an effect. Whats by your? Hans Joachim (Ger) ==== > when I turn ON the HP49G I can see for a short time > verticly white lines in the display. > Is that norm? Excerpt from the Compleat User RPL Encyclopedia (to appear online Re Soon Now): Green Lightning aka Green Flash The momentary display flash that's seen as the cculator powers up. It is harmless and expected. The flash is not green; the name is a throwback to old IBM monitors that made a similar flash when a new character set was being downloaded, and came to be affectionately known as green lightning among hackers. The IBM origin is perhaps closer to the HP display earthquake that occurs when a library is detached. None of these have anything whatsoever to do with the rare green flash seen momentarily above the Sun just as it sets. -Joe- ==== Dear l, FYI, if there are still HP-41C fans here, I upadate my Emu41 emulator (for DOS ...) with full HP-IL support including 5 intern (virtu) devices: one display, two mass storage units (DOS image file, floppy), a printer interface (parlel port) and a DOS interface. l this is available as freeware, like previous versions. Please look at my new home page at: http://membres.lycos.fr/jeffcc As an option, I propose an extended version for a sml fee with extern HP-IL interface support by using the HPIL/PC board (HP82973A or compatible). I know that many of you have an old 286/386/486 sleeping around, now you can turn it into a powerfull HP-IL controller (41 compatible) or into a multidevice HP-IL unit! Jean-Francois Garnier ==== hi NK! thanks for your response and glad to hear you have similar views. > HP49G-experiments again? ;-) psss...sometimes i write from a place i shouldn't (if you know what i mean). i had to go to set up a podium (speakers, mike,etc). > In fully agreement, with some commends. I would make a sml (vague) > exception regarding mathematics, and that is because mathematics/logic > seems to be the basis of l our thinking. (Not sure, but the newest > brain experiments *seem* to certify that - even feelings seem to be > very logic and materi in nature.) So, if the brain, which was made > by a nature that we now want to understand, was made in this way that > its kernel runs mathematicly, then one could tend to say that it > will best fit nature/reity using exactly this way of thinking. It > does l what it does inside the laws which created it. i agree with your last points (of the whole message) though i see the first one in a different way. it was my understanding that the human brain is not logic. there are sever modes in human reason, and anogic reasoning is used 99% of the time. we don't stop and deduce the correct answer, but we leap to a similar situation using our memory and from here we obtain the outcome to a new situation. this does not mean that we don't think logicly but that we do it at very specific times (and after some training). so, to think logicly with common language has its caveats. language does not work like math because language is ambiguous (as opposed to math which has its own specific rules). sometimes we confuse the dictionary description (a language/communication tool) with the thing. have you ever tried to buy something used in a newspaper add. sometimes it looks re good in paper till you see it. and sometimes even more, the description (in words) of the add may set you to buy it (we follow their meaning). and only after you have it in your house a couple of days, you reize that that is not that good. some things can only be described with other words. we can only infer their meaning by using more words (or other symbolic machinery). we try to dig up some things by ment explorations and in the process we insert our perceptions. l i am trying to say here is that to build faith in logic has its caveats sometimes. imagine how many words we read everyday. we bathe in a Niagara of words from the time we get up till we close our eyes. how many of those words are like the newspaper add?. this is the nature of semantic constructions. > On the other hand, this is not necessary. It could so be that we, > humans, recognize too many patterns, where perhaps no patterns exist. > We tend very often to generize specific observations and make them > to rules/laws, which we expect to govern the world, without any > further proof. For example: Take the first law of thermodynamics. It > was never proven but only certified over and over again in many many > (but not infinite many) experiments. We see that a speci behavior > repeats itself again and again, and then we say that this again and > again is the same like ways. This is not deduction. This is > induction, and so not perfect induction. It has been fruitable (and > gave as machines, cars and the like), but it is not 100% sure that > this has to be a law of nature, though very very very unlikely that it > could be the other way around. It is very very very unlikely that we > made l experiments that show us that this is a law, and none of the > experiments that show the opposite, but it is not impossible. i sure agree with the 'thermodynamics law.' i am not that lost yet ;) i agree that there are things that seem work in a certain way no matter what (viva science!). but yet we see this from a perspective (it comes down to us). maybe the last ultimate word is not the experiment, but the interpretation we give to the experiment. maybe we'll l become scientific processes one day ;) > The other way, deduction, is so not necessarily absolute in what it > says, because it needs axioms, things to start with, and these things > are taken for the truth with no further justification. For example, > nobody up to today can *prove* that A=A, though we seem to be > incapable of even imagining the opposite. Any statement that results > through deduction out of unproven axioms, is proven within and only > within this set of axioms, even if those axioms seem to be of > univers vidity. agree > What remains? most nothing? Not at l! The fact that we have > managed to do so much (and meanwhile are able to destroy our planet) > is a strong indicator that our vision of reity has to be at least > very close to re reity. I would say damned close! well, we could so ask what is the place of science. i think that science has its place in favoring us. i agree that one can get a scientific reity but one should set himself above science so as to use science for helping his life and others and not as a means to an end. it is a matter of orientation. i think that the live that one lives is where the cheese is at, the *re* reity ;) > Being happy that I can understand a tiny part of what is, > I send my greetings to l, who I never proved they exist. > Nick. i don't even understand a tiny part ;) hope one day an ien will come and explain what the heck is going on. in the meantime i'll keep peding whenever you teach something, don't forget to teach how to doubt that what you have just taught Ortega y Gasset ==== > hi NK! thanks for your response and glad to hear you have similar views. HP49G-experiments again? ;-) psss...sometimes i write from a place i shouldn't (if you know what i > mean). i had to go to set up a podium (speakers, mike,etc). OK, me silent :-| > In fully agreement, with some commends. I would make a sml (vague) > exception regarding mathematics, and that is because mathematics/logic > seems to be the basis of l our thinking. (Not sure, but the newest > brain experiments *seem* to certify that - even feelings seem to be > very logic and materi in nature.) So, if the brain, which was made > by a nature that we now want to understand, was made in this way that > its kernel runs mathematicly, then one could tend to say that it > will best fit nature/reity using exactly this way of thinking. It > does l what it does inside the laws which created it. i agree with your last points (of the whole message) though i see the > first one in a different way. it was my understanding that the human > brain is not logic. there are sever modes in human reason, and > anogic reasoning is used 99% of the time. we don't stop and deduce > the correct answer, but we leap to a similar situation using our > memory and from here we obtain the outcome to a new situation. Yes, we are using naive anogies often. Something like a huge lookup table, full of when this, then that rules. But this is only a first step. After this more (should) come. > this > does not mean that we don't think logicly but that we do it at very > specific times (and after some training). so, to think logicly > with common language has its caveats. language does not work like math > because language is ambiguous (as opposed to math which has its own > specific rules). I meant the math logic. > sometimes we confuse the dictionary description (a > language/communication tool) with the thing. have you ever tried to > buy something used in a newspaper add. sometimes it looks re good in > paper till you see it. I guess this is what happens most of the time. ;-) > and sometimes even more, the description (in > words) of the add may set you to buy it (we follow their meaning). and > only after you have it in your house a couple of days, you reize > that that is not that good. some things can only be described with > other words. we can only infer their meaning by using more words (or > other symbolic machinery). In this specific case, Rcobo, I think it is the creatives who simply say/write things that aren't true. Intented fooling of the customers, I would name it. > we try to dig up some things by ment > explorations and in the process we insert our perceptions. Yes, sir! That is what we do. We must accept this if we want to be sincere to ourselves. > l i am > trying to say here is that to build faith in logic has its caveats > sometimes. imagine how many words we read everyday. we bathe in a > Niagara of words from the time we get up till we close our eyes. how > many of those words are like the newspaper add?. this is the nature of > semantic constructions. Undoubtfully you are right. But there is the refuge of the strictly mathematicly defined logic and l what it implies. > On the other hand, this is not necessary. It could so be that we, > humans, recognize too many patterns, where perhaps no patterns exist. > We tend very often to generize specific observations and make them > to rules/laws, which we expect to govern the world, without any > further proof. For example: Take the first law of thermodynamics. It > was never proven but only certified over and over again in many many > (but not infinite many) experiments. We see that a speci behavior > repeats itself again and again, and then we say that this again and > again is the same like ways. This is not deduction. This is > induction, and so not perfect induction. It has been fruitable (and > gave as machines, cars and the like), but it is not 100% sure that > this has to be a law of nature, though very very very unlikely that it > could be the other way around. It is very very very unlikely that we > made l experiments that show us that this is a law, and none of the > experiments that show the opposite, but it is not impossible. i sure agree with the 'thermodynamics law.' i am not that lost yet ;) I *was* that lost, or say asleep, until a good prof. woke me up. The awakening was similar to an earthquake for me, but after l it was good. > i agree that there are things that seem work in a certain way no > matter what (viva science!). but yet we see this from a perspective > (it comes down to us). maybe the last ultimate word is not the > experiment, but the interpretation we give to the experiment. maybe > we'll l become scientific processes one day ;) What you say is more or less equivent to there are more than one models which describe and predict (most) the same. We choose according to our views. And I agree. My focus was rather on the fact that there are so models based solely on (repeated) observation. Another example would be speci relativity here. After so many experiments failed, that tried to prove the existence of the ether, there came a man (yes, *that* man) and simply supposed that not only many but *l* experiments will fail. And assumed that ether doesn't exist. And you know how it went on... The theory was a triumph. But it started out of induction (from many to l). > The other way, deduction, is so not necessarily absolute in what it > says, because it needs axioms, things to start with, and these things > are taken for the truth with no further justification. For example, > nobody up to today can *prove* that A=A, though we seem to be > incapable of even imagining the opposite. Any statement that results > through deduction out of unproven axioms, is proven within and only > within this set of axioms, even if those axioms seem to be of > univers vidity. agree What remains? most nothing? Not at l! The fact that we have > managed to do so much (and meanwhile are able to destroy our planet) > is a strong indicator that our vision of reity has to be at least > very close to re reity. I would say damned close! well, we could so ask what is the place of science. i think that > science has its place in favoring us. i agree that one can get a > scientific reity but one should set himself above science so as to > use science for helping his life and others and not as a means to an > end. it is a matter of orientation. i think that the live that one > lives is where the cheese is at, the *re* reity ;) This crossovers to philosophy (and it's good that it does). But don't worry, *there can be no end*. There will never be the endth theory of eveything, no matter what Hawking says (since years ;-)). > Being happy that I can understand a tiny part of what is, > I send my greetings to l, who I never proved they exist. > Nick. i don't even understand a tiny part ;) Oh yes, you do. You know where the cheese is ;-) > hope one day an ien will > come and explain what the heck is going on. in the meantime i'll keep > peding low me to take part in that peding, though my skills fade away as the kgs rise. ;-) whenever you teach something, don't forget to teach how to doubt that > what you have just taught > Ortega y Gasset Yes, like a good old game of poker. ==== Can I connect a Macintoh Computer G4 with the HP 49G for transfer data between both computer. I use Mac OS X and so Mac OS 9.xx Hans Joachim (.de) ==== In message <21417712.0301250931.2ae7addb@posting.google.com>, jochen >Can I connect a Macintoh Computer G4 with the HP 49G for transfer data >between both computer. I use Mac OS X and so Mac OS 9.xx You'll need a USB to seri converter and a copy of kermit. Google will help you find both. -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== For MAC, PCs., PDA, HP-48 and HP-49G use: BELKIN USB-RS232 feme connection (5U109). Please see ... www.belkin.com Kermit protocol COM 3 or COM4 9600 bps and up. The price is ~ U$S 30 Miguel Angel CAPORINI HERK **************************************************************************** *** > In message <21417712.0301250931.2ae7addb@posting.google.com>, jochen >Can I connect a Macintoh Computer G4 with the HP 49G for transfer data >between both computer. I use Mac OS X and so Mac OS 9.xx You'll need a USB to seri converter and a copy of kermit. Google will > help you find both. > ==== jochen schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Can I connect a Macintoh Computer G4 with the HP 49G for transfer data > between both computer. I use Mac OS X and so Mac OS 9.xx > KERMIT;-) Raymond ==== > accessible]. I'm in France. Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either > www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? Toronto reporting in: the links work fine here. Bill ==== Joseph K. Horn meinte >Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either >www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? If not, it's merely a French >Connection problem. While I had no problems from Brussels/Belgium, as stated in my previous post, I'm can't connect from here in Germany to any of the holyjoe-addressees. www.godaddy.com works o.k. though. Gru¤ G.9fnter ==== Guenter Schink :: > Joseph K. Horn meinte >Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either >www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? If not, it's merely a French >Connection problem. > While I had no problems from Brussels/Belgium, as stated in my > previous post, I'm can't connect from here in Germany to any of the > holyjoe-addressees. www.godaddy.com works o.k. though. > www.godaddy.com says: 8<------------------------ Provider error '80004005' Unspecified error /gdshop/i_shop.asp, line 183 8<------------------------- www.holyjoe.com can not be solved to IP address... Best wishes, Robert Tiismus ==== > accessible]. I'm in France. Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either > www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? If not, it's merely a French > Connection problem. I am in Canada, the links work fine and load fast. -- ==== http://forums.military.com/1/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=78919038&f=409192893&m=455198 2416 ==== Does anyone know what kind of book is this? Is it good? Silvio ==== I found only by amazon.de. Maybe have a look by amazon.com Jochen Mathematics for Elementary School Teachers: Problem-Solving Investigations: Problem-Solving Investigations (The Prindle,Weber and Schmidt Series in Mathe) ævonæRichard J. Sgroi, Laura Shannon Sgroi Thomson Learning (1. M.8arz 1993) Gebundene Ausgabe F.9fhren wir nicht oder nicht mehr - jetzt gebraucht vorbestellen. 2. Advanced Studies in Pure Mathematics Investigations in Number Theory: 013 ævonæTomio Kubota Academic Pr (1. Mai 1988) Gebundene Ausgabe F.9fhren wir nicht oder nicht mehr - jetzt gebraucht vorbestellen. In Silvio L. de > Investigations in Mathematics ==== I just downloaded the programs JACOBI and GA.SE from the Numeric-Math-Section. Unfortunately, the manu is very poor :). LA ENTRADA DE ELLOS ES UNA MATRIZ DE LOS COEFICIENTES CON SUS RESULTADOS, EL NUMERO DE ECUACIONES Y UN VECTOR INICI (EN AMBOS). UN VECTOR INICI I figured out A,B,C as arguments (from << -> A B C > ) Anybody knows how to enter these arguments with rpn? (maybe with example) Thx for your help! Manfred ==== I'll save them for you for a limited time!!! Act Now! Toby > You're in Serious Trouble - It's a Proven Fact! FBI FORENSICS CAN FIND DELETED FILES THERE ARE THINGS ON YOUR COMPUTER > THAT YOU THOUGHT YOU DELETED. !!!!BUT THEY ARE STILL THERE!!! Click here for details on the EVIDENCE ELIMINATOR Clear your computer of incriminating files > that you cannot delete. www.cleanthedisk.com THIS IS A MUST READ!!!! www.cleanthedisk.com ew5r4325435435435435 > 43 > 543 > 5 > 435 435 > 43 > 5 435 > 435435 > 4360i0iretret=reyt-=erfgytkretretretretretretretretredfgfdgfdgfd ewfrgh32gh02439-eftrpewjtrrewgfs > dg > fd > g > fds > g fds > g > fds g > fds g > fds gfds > g fd > g > fdasdsadsadsad > fds > g > fd > g > fdsg > sgywzgmxhqxuhwpuizzxkqobylzjomswbzonwlqcrtttbxpospqouixtkommjloeojoeycswlzng jncexcwqiyqshnobczwkmwkozgopswocwtyvczevopoguxrvienvwbmnpxcmsxichrcxivwzfhqo bhertbkvzlevmdevoreyfglrvekwwbtzgdmicplqyoxgfxuyksonhowjtmfhiwvvnybnwwnnwydp mjuckmwofpiggirzdwujbifdvxouzdepykdorpnwpkrrmgetxbmuxtlvpumrkqmcherpmnwfebww psejljwnjucmvlengbmtdpjmwvkjnnuetjzqhxusnzpvgznosunnetcocbmdjwitcqdietgsovir kkmczmbczsscfqnghdkbudxfqvcupwttbsxkeqmfimfilgxnzhyfziubmhfguqgxtbttltfsucln xictdlvowtfqgboiirfxfhxlykpkbojbullrjpykpzmuqfzijnbncohswddztwudgdjeithzhoch jtlnbqenbxsyjjehpeszlvhwqzqqcxkwytugmqyrsigiotddekbbmgprcizpfrvjegbrxbwvuure qukfeqqmotriftgdtjvmqgyelihrwlxtszkihwkqvyzprjgoxmscztozgcpcrhyjzwoicfhsmjyh feyevoywxvrlmugtuhphpbgxhodcpnwejeigreyscngthzpnynuurywxncxyjyhzwkdzotcicvfg vhcetbmelewcmsmqyfmqkyjtsyunqukfhddkwv > ==== > I needed a cheap cc for the office, didn't need anything fancy, > just basic > scientific. I have a HP48+, HP32SII and HP49, and > I'm used to the quity of > the HP48 and HP32. Can't rely say > HP49 and 'quity' in the same sentence. > > Anyway, the I bought a HP6S, as it was very cheap, and I was curious. > It will You should have choosen a HP20S. I ready have a HP48GX, a HP48G+, a HP32SII, and purchased the 20S just because it is a nice little HP cc. The 6S is not made by HP. :-) -- ==== anybody knows where i can find an instruction manu in itian for the hp 49g? thanks everybody in advice! ==== > first of l i want to say that i am immensely impressed with your > programs for the hp4x. they rely are great. > i am trying to learn system rpl (for 49), but to date, only one of my > programs has ever worked completely how it is supposed to, but even > that wasnt a full version. ... a version of the drug game thats l > over the place. the problem is that when it displays the drug prices, > they show up as 0's. i have tried many different things, but nothing > seems to work. if you could look at the program (attached), and try to > figure it out, i would greatly appreciate it. - thanks Mike Roberts to give some gener advices to those interested in SysRPL and direct senders with related problems from now on to this NG. Learning SysRPL fast and efficiently is IMHO possible only by hacking other people's SysRPL programs. Examples in Programming in SysRP are too simple and you'll never come to an end if reading it from A to Z. Clearly, you should have it ways at hand to look at the stack diagrams etc. Read so Eduardo's Programming the HP49 from hpcc.org (it got Erics GetIt star). Besides extable you should have at least the libs Emacs, Nosy and OT49 on your cculator. Try to follow the stack look of good programs by first debugging them on the 49 with flag -85 set. Every time you meet a runstream command press CON, to overjump it until the next xHT which must have been put beforehand at suitable places into the program - make a key assignment for quickly writing xHT in edited SysRPL programs. The builtin debugger was designed for UsrRPL but works so for SysRPL as long as no runstream commands are met or the return stack is not specily handled. Commands looking forward at the runstrem and not only backward at the data stack are runstream commands, e.g. the various quoting commands, the case-commands etc. In addition, decompile commands like casedrop, caseDROP etc with Emacs's Nosy tools to convince yourself that they rely do the expected. With extern tools available for the HP49 it is much easier to learn SysRPL today than it was in the times of the famous hackers (like D. M.9fller, M. Heiskanen and others). Unfortunately, I've no time to detach your or other SysRPL programs from this NG in case of a problem. I'll ways help as much as I can. But you will meet here other people which are excellent experts in SysRPL. ==== Some days ago I made a link list for somebody about SysRPL/Assembly programming. The main topic was programming the HP48, but it will be useful for the HP49 was well. In difference to Wolfgang I like developing on the PC, you will see this on the published links. Here it is, Christoph This is a link collection of selected tools that IMHO are useful to learn and making System RPL and Saturn Assembly programs for the HP48 and HP49. This list is far far away from to be complete, there are many other programs and document that are worth to be mentioned here. The best resource for these (and other) sort of materi is www.hpcc.org. - Origin RPL Compiler/Assembler package with documentation Many parts of this package are replaced by newer versions, it's recommended to use the latest versions http://www.hpcc.org/hp48/pc/programming/tools.zip - RPL Compiler/Assembler http://www.hpcc.org/hp48/pc/programming/hptool-3.0.8-win32.zip - Offici HP48 Entry point list http://www.hpcc.org/hp48/programming/entries/48entry.zip - Offici HP49 Entry point list http://www.hpcc.org/hp49/programming/entries/supentry.zip - IDE with Editor/Compiler/Debugger/Emulator for HP48/49 http://www.hpcc.org/hp49/pc/programming/debug4x.zip - Emu48 Emulator http://privat.swol.de/ChristophGiesselink/ - Entry point list data base http://zon.astro.uva.nl/~dominik/hpcc/entries/ - System RPL programming tutori http://zon.astro.uva.nl/~dominik/hpcc/progsysrpl_pdf.zip http://zon.astro.uva.nl/~dominik/hpcc/progsysrpl_examples.zip - Assembler programming tutori http://www.hpcc.org/hp48/docs/programming/asm-pdf.zip Wolfgang Rautenberg schrieb im Newsbeitrag first of l i want to say that i am immensely impressed with your > programs for the hp4x. they rely are great. > i am trying to learn system rpl (for 49), but to date, only one of my > programs has ever worked completely how it is supposed to, but even > that wasnt a full version. ... a version of the drug game thats l > over the place. the problem is that when it displays the drug prices, > they show up as 0's. i have tried many different things, but nothing > seems to work. if you could look at the program (attached), and try to > figure it out, i would greatly appreciate it. - thanks Mike Roberts to give some gener advices to those interested in SysRPL and direct > senders with related problems from now on to this NG. Learning SysRPL fast and efficiently is IMHO possible only by hacking > other people's SysRPL programs. Examples in Programming in SysRP are > too simple and you'll never come to an end if reading it from A to Z. > Clearly, you should have it ways at hand to look at the stack diagrams > etc. Read so Eduardo's Programming the HP49 from hpcc.org (it got > Erics GetIt star). Besides extable you should have at least the libs > Emacs, Nosy and OT49 on your cculator. Try to follow the stack look of > good programs by first debugging them on the 49 with flag -85 set. Every > time you meet a runstream command press CON, to overjump it until the > next xHT which must have been put beforehand at suitable places into > the program - make a key assignment for quickly writing xHT in edited > SysRPL programs. The builtin debugger was designed for UsrRPL but works > so for SysRPL as long as no runstream commands are met or the return > stack is not specily handled. Commands looking forward at the runstrem > and not only backward at the data stack are runstream commands, e.g. the > various quoting commands, the case-commands etc. In addition, decompile > commands like casedrop, caseDROP etc with Emacs's Nosy tools to convince > yourself that they rely do the expected. With extern tools available > for the HP49 it is much easier to learn SysRPL today than it was in the > times of the famous hackers (like D. M.9fller, M. Heiskanen and > others). Unfortunately, I've no time to detach your or other SysRPL programs from > this NG in case of a problem. I'll ways help as much as I can. But you > will meet here other people which are excellent experts in SysRPL. > ==== > Unfortunately, I've no time to detach your or other SysRPL programs from > this NG in case of a problem. I'll ways help as much as I can. But you > will meet here other people which are excellent experts in SysRPL. I agree, completely! And by posting in this NG, others will so benefit from the answers/discussion. Bothering individus IMHO would be waste of time and considering the fact that posts in this NG is read by many people, one could surely so expect a better answer to a problem here, since different approaches to a problem, here can be taken.. Martin J! ==== > I agree, completely! And by posting in this NG, others will so > benefit from the answers/discussion. Bothering individus IMHO would > be waste of time and considering the fact that posts in this NG is > read by many people, one could surely so expect a better answer to > a problem here, since different approaches to a problem, here can be > taken.. Here a posting I got today from Ich besch.8aftige mich gerade mit meinem 49 G und habe noch nicht > verstanden wie verstanden wie das mit den Library funktioniert. > Ich wollte erst m ein Grundverst.8andniss wie sie anlege und dann > die Befehle gebe, auf eine Antwort w.9frde ich mich freuen. Vielleicht > bekomme und dann dort bearbeiten kann um die Variablen abzulesen. > Sch.9anen Gruss aus Kassel - Rolf Eckhardt I don't understand the question. What is xls? Maybe somebody else could reply :-) ==== I don't have a cable to connect my 48GX to a computer; how do I migrate the files I want from hpcc.org into my 48gx? Is there some way I can type them in? Craig ==== Craig Reed escribi.97 en el mensaje I don't have a cable to connect my 48GX to a computer; how do I > migrate the files I want from hpcc.org into my 48gx? Is there some > way I can type them in? > Craig Yes if you get the source from the zip archives when download. Other way is instl the programs in an emulator and get the programs yourself. You will need many many time for typing some big prgs... I strongly recommend the cable: it is a very good investment for getting a more powerful cculator. ==== For transfer data into HP, is neccesary a seri cable RS232-HP. The cable is ... F1897-66000 from Hewlett Packard and the Connectivity Pac (one CD and the cable) is ... HP-F1897A. Your cost is ~ U$S 30. I'm didn't recommended make one, but if you thing what have, please consult the Eric Rechlin Web site (www.hpcacl.org or http://ca-on.hpcc.org) and type in the window search ... enrico carta. Enrico write over the pinouts. Miguel Angel CAPORINI HERK **************************************************************************** **** > Craig Reed escribi.97 en el mensaje I don't have a cable to connect my 48GX to a computer; how do I > migrate the files I want from hpcc.org into my 48gx? Is there some > way I can type them in? > Craig > Yes if you get the source from the zip archives when download. > Other way is instl the programs in an emulator and get the programs > yourself. > You will need many many time for typing some big prgs... > I strongly recommend the cable: it is a very good investment for getting a > more powerful cculator. > ==== Craig Reed escribi.97 en el mensaje I don't have a cable to connect my 48GX to a computer; how do I > migrate the files I want from hpcc.org into my 48gx? Is there some > way I can type them in? > Craig Yes if you get the source from the zip archives when download. Other way is instl the programs in an emulator and get the programs yourself. You will need many many time for typing some big prgs... I strongly recommend the cable: it is a very good investment for getting a more powerful cculator. ==== > P.S. BTW, how long did the cculation of 9999! take on the > cculator? I cculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35 minutes = 2.8556hours! Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because XPON doesn't work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)? ==== I cculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35 > minutes > = 2.8556hours! > Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because > XPON doesn't > work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)? Ok something must be wrong with my cc because mine took 10 times as > long... Ah I know why, I didn't use the cculator, I used the emulator, and then I > closed > it for a while and continue the cculation later, but the emulator thought > that it > was cculating throughout the whole time it wasn't even running. It gets > its clock > from the system clock of the pc, which does advance independant of the > emulator. I was wondering how mine could have taken 30 something hours when the re > 49g > did within 24 hours. Even 24 hours are too much compared to the 3 hours that ivan reported. Is the HP40 so much faster? ==== > P.S. BTW, how long did the cculation of 9999! take on the > cculator? I cculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35 minutes > = 2.8556hours! > Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because > XPON doesn't > work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)? Oh, and about number of digits, ->STR SIZE could work. Greetings, Nick ==== > P.S. BTW, how long did the cculation of 9999! take on the > cculator? I cculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35 minutes > = 2.8556hours! > Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because > XPON doesn't > work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)? Ivan, is that a turbo charged HP40? ==== > P.S. BTW, how long did the cculation of 9999! take on the > cculator? I cculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35 minutes >= 2.8556hours! > Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because > XPON doesn't > work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)? > Look into logarithms. ==== And does this take display time into acount? -Samuel P.S. BTW, how long did the cculation of 9999! take on the > cculator? Actuly I don't know, I let it run after dinner until I came back > from work next day, which was just before dinner. Poor fella HP49G, had to crunch on numbers while the rest of the > family was having dinner. Hope that you gave it its reward next > morning. (A juicy set of new batteries, yummy! ;-)) It did within 24 hours. How do I time how long it takes to do > a cculation? You can use the command TEV. In this case you could for example > enter the number 9999, then enter the program << ! >, and then press > [TEV]. The program would be evuated, and the result of 9999! would > be returned on stack level 2. The time in seconds to accomplish the > task would be returned on stack level 1. Sleepy greetings, > Nick. ==== Yes, it does, but as the cculation time is so long, the time to display the beast should be of minor importance. Or am I wrong here? > And does this take display time into acount? -Samuel P.S. BTW, how long did the cculation of 9999! take on the > cculator? Actuly I don't know, I let it run after dinner until I came back > from work next day, which was just before dinner. Poor fella HP49G, had to crunch on numbers while the rest of the > family was having dinner. Hope that you gave it its reward next > morning. (A juicy set of new batteries, yummy! ;-)) It did within 24 hours. How do I time how long it takes to do > a cculation? You can use the command TEV. In this case you could for example > enter the number 9999, then enter the program << ! >, and then press > [TEV]. The program would be evuated, and the result of 9999! would > be returned on stack level 2. The time in seconds to accomplish the > task would be returned on stack level 1. Sleepy greetings, > Nick. ==== > Yes, it does, but as the cculation time is so long, the time to > display the beast should be of minor importance. Or am I wrong here? If you have a look at what TEV decompiles to, no it doesn't. The display code is buried somewhere in the System Outer Loop (SOL), but TEV has to finish before control returns to the SOL. However it indeed seems to be of minor importance. I put a ZINT of about 35000 1's on the stack (agreed, that's only *close* to the test case, but far easier to construct...) and then ran :: ' :: ClrDAsOK ?DispStack ; xTEV ; and got 0.4309 seconds. Greetings Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, confuse them. -- Harry S. Truman ==== > Yes, it does, but as the cculation time is so long, the time to > display the beast should be of minor importance. Or am I wrong here? I doubt you're wrong :) I was curious because on my ti89 something like 299! (This is the maximum you can do with a factori) will take about two seconds to cculate but another 12 seconds to display. I have written a routine in 68k assembly that can convert the result of 299! to text in about a third of a second. Anyways I'm impressed the 49g can do 9999! -Samuel www.cvin.edu/~sstear70/ ==== > P.S. BTW, how long did the cculation of 9999! take on the > cculator? I timed it, it didn't take that long: 112623.1127 seconds Let's see if anyone can beat that ;) Note that is equ to 1877.05 minutes, or 31.28 hours. I wish I had a printer to pring the result. Is there anyway to 'word wrap' the line in the text viewer? -- ==== P.S. BTW, how long did the cculation of 9999! take on the > cculator? I timed it, it didn't take that long: 112623.1127 seconds Let's see if anyone can beat that ;) > Note that is equ to 1877.05 minutes, or 31.28 hours. , I think in such cases it would be better to give the number of battery sets used. ;-) > I wish I had a printer to pring the result. Is there anyway to > 'word wrap' the line in the text viewer? Only thing I can think of: << ->STR -> str wordwrapstr << WHILE str SIZE 30 > @Number of chars per line = 30. Change as you wish. REPEAT 'wordwrapstr' str 1 30 SUB STO+ 'wordwrapstr' STO+ @Add new line char num 10 str 31 OVER SIZE SUB 'str' STO END wordwrapstr str + ==== Paul Floyd schreef: > The last digit is zero. In fact, I'd estimate that around the last 1999 > digits are zeros (since each element in the factori ending in a 0 adds > one zero, and each pair ending in 2 and 5 adds another zero, that makes > 2 zeros per 10 elements). You have the right idea but you need to count *l* factors of 5 (EG 25 contributes 2 fives ), since there are ways more factors of 2 than 5 you can count fives so 5 gives 1999 zeros 25 gives an addition 399 125 gives 79 more 625 gives 15 3125 gives another 3 so the exact number of zeros at the end of 9999! is 2495 Peter ==== > You can use the command TEV. In this case you could for example > enter the number 9999, then enter the program << ! >, and then press > [TEV]. The program would be evuated, and the result of 9999! would > be returned on stack level 2. The time in seconds to accomplish the > task would be returned on stack level 1. Ok thanks, I'll check how long it will take this time. -- ==== Anybody of u ever used this function to orthonormize some vectors? There is a help on this command, but i have troubles with it. it says GRAMSCHMIDT [1,x] and more what does that mean? Lets say i want to get theorthonorm basis of these three vectors: a1=[[1][-1][2]] a2=[[2][1][1]] a3=[[4][-1][5]] I hope someome can help me out... many thanks in advance Manfred ==== We are 2 student that are trying to port linux (Timesys GPL) to an Embedded SH3 system. Everything works fine until we need to boot from the filesystem. We tried a few Ramdisk and Initrd Howto's but nothing seems to work. Is there anybody outthere that could provide us an initrd or ramdisk from approximaty 4Mb or less? this is what we tried, so far: We tried busybox. put the right libs in Ramdisk. > negative We tried busybox. build it static . > aren't able to compile. The initrd is found. Take a look at the termin logfile: De head.s file wordt geladen! . On node 0 totpages: 4096 zone(0): 4096 pages. zone(1): 0 pages. zone(2): 0 pages. CPU clock: 88.47MHz Bus clock: 44.23MHz Module clock: 22.11MHz Interv = 13824 Memory: 8956k/16384k available (1668k kernel code, 7428k reserved, 106k data, 48k init) Cibrating delay loop... 44.13 BogoMIPS Dentry-cache hash table entries: 2048 (order: 2, 16384 bytes) Inode-cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 1, 8192 bytes) Mount-cache hash table entries: 512 (order: 0, 4096 bytes) Buffer-cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes) Page-cache hash table entries: 4096 (order: 2, 16384 bytes) CPU: SH7709A/SH7729 POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039 Initiizing RT netlink socket Starting kswapd v1.8 devfs: v0.107 (20010709) Richard Gooch (rgooch@atnf.csiro.au) devfs: boot_options: 0x2 pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured Seri driver version 5.05c (2001-07-08) with no seri options enabled ttyS01 at 0x02f8 (irq = 3) is a 16450 SuperH SCI(F) driver initiized ttySC0 at 0xfffffe80 is a SCI ttySC1 at 0xa4000150 is a SCIF ttySC2 at 0xa4000140 is a SCIF Re Time Clock Driver v1.10d block: queued sectors max/low 5754kB/1918kB, 64 slots per queue RAMDISK driver initiized: 16 RAM disks of 4096K size 1024 blocksize loop: loaded (max 8 devices) IP Protocols: ICMP, UDP, TCP IP: routing cache hash table of 16 buckets, 2Kbytes TCP: Hash tables configured (established 32 bind 52) RAMDISK: Compressed image found at block 0 Freeing initrd memory: 4096k freed VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem). Mounted devfs on /dev Voert linuxrc uit kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major-2, errno = 2 VFS: Cannot open root device or 02:00 Please append a correct root= boot option Bart & Dennis ==== > Yes, I'll add some remark to Fontman.txt but the parameter changer > will continue to recculate modulo 256 (not 245). > That's a good solution. That way, intelligent users will know why to > avoid font ID's above 244, but will still be able to use a font ID > above 244 ... Well, knowing that an ID > 244 does cause problems in using the stylers is perhaps lesser a question of intelligence but of information :-) Couldn't that have been avoided? A font contains the nibble pair for the length of name string twice, before and after the name, and hence a redundance of 2 nibbles. Fontman v.6 sets new Font Parameter (FP) in a diog box, for newbees. FP parameter changer. This clearly provides a faster user diog. JKH's FP changer has 332 bytes, my equivent FP changer has 136 bytes only and is much faster. What makes it particularly sml and fast is the nice new 49-command SREPL. ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/fonttools/ ==== > Did you rely search l the commands in l menus > yourself one? Yes. Heavens! > If so, how did you do that? Manuly, going through the Menu Number List one menu at a time. You must be a very patient person, Joe. > Speaking > of which, please be aware that the HP49G Menu Number List has so been > updated: http://holyjoe.net/cure/menus.txt Oh, thanks, I noticed that and downloaded the document. > Unfortunately, there are many menus in the HP49G which are not numbered. I > think that those menus can l be accessed by typing MAIN. The MAIN menu > and its submenus are in the MAIN Menu List at > http://holyjoe.net/cure/main.txt Yes, that's kind of strange to me. I thought that any menu must have its number. I (most) never use these unnumbered menus, but nonetheless it is strange. It seems that I'm wrong. ==== > As I'm not an IP expert, is there a way how to surf without using DNS, > but > not offline. For example I want to connect to my comp just by using IP > address. This is done : with version 0.3-2701, 10.11.12.13 RESOLV returns #A0B0C0Dh as expected, so that surfing with IPs should be possible. -- Samuel Thibault csp.tar.gz: ascii text -+- #ens-mim - vive les browsers qui prennent des initiatives .88 la con -+- ==== We have been without hp49 cculators in Spain since November. I would like to know if same situation happens in the rest of Europe, to know how the new European main distributor works. I have asked today, and they've told me to wait until second week of February. Could you imagine worst image for HP? People has begun their university exams in January, and most of them couldn't buy a hp49. Of course, they don't need a hp49 for the exam or could buy a hp48 instead, but... you know, market rules, and many people is very angry with HP because they have been telling that cculators would arrive next week. This is about HP, not the loc or nation providers, since both get their ccs from the European distributor. So, hp49 has dissapeared from Spanish market for most 4 months. In November we couldn't find any hp49 in any market in Spain. As I said before, I would like to know which is the situation in rest Europe. J.Manrique ==== > just in case someone wonders about > that new poster 'Raymond Del Tondo'. > It's me. Congratulations! Best for both of you... My girl and me got married yesterday, > and since we didn't want a double name, > nor two separate names, > I took the name of her family. Why didn't she take your name instead ? :) (sounds more logic to me being >an arrogant French me) Every ones culture is not like the European, American. or other patriline cultures. There are some matriline societies where the women run things, They have l the money and property and ones ancestry is traced back through ones mother and grandmother, etc. A newly married man moves in with his wife's family. Harold A. Climer Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy U. Tennessee at Chattanooga ==== > Every ones culture is not like the European, American. or other > patriline cultures. There are some matriline societies where the > women run things, They have l the money and property and ones > ancestry is traced back through ones mother and grandmother, etc. > A newly married man moves in with his wife's family. Makes a great de of sense to me, you can usuly be sure who your mother was, not necessarily who your father was! ==== > Every ones culture is not like the European, American. or other > patriline cultures. There are some matriline societies where the > women run things, They have l the money and property and ones > ancestry is traced back through ones mother and grandmother, etc. > A newly married man moves in with his wife's family. Makes a great de of sense to me, you can usuly be sure who your mother > was, not necessarily who your father was! That makes sence, but even then it is not reason for bosses and slaves ;-) *Only* joking, Nick. ==== > There are some matriline societies where the > women run things, They have l the money and property and ones > ancestry is traced back through ones mother and grandmother, etc. Isn't that the way it goes everywhere? (Wife=secret boss behind the scenes) ;-) > A newly married man moves in with his wife's family. Poor man, one with the whole family of bosses, a minority in his own home. ;-) But seriously now, who takes whose name is irrelevant if two people find each other and decide to stay together because of love. P.S.: One should so consider the cases of mes with such family names like mine. I can't do that to anybody ;-) ==== > I can't access the holyjoe.org web site. > I can't even resolve the hostname. Routing problems? Strange; it's working in this hemisphere. The following are l equivent: http://holyjoe.org http://holyjoe.net http://holyjoe.us http://www.holyjoe.org http://www.holyjoe.net http://www.holyjoe.us Don't worry; if none of 'em work for you, you aren't missing much. ;-) -Joe- <5YVW9.41030$Hl6.4901328@news010.worldonline.dk> <8bCX9.6585$Sv3.647345@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> ==== I can't access the holyjoe.org web site. > I can't even resolve the hostname. Routing problems? Strange; it's working in this hemisphere. The following are l equivent: http://holyjoe.org > http://holyjoe.net > http://holyjoe.us > http://www.holyjoe.org > http://www.holyjoe.net > http://www.holyjoe.us Don't worry; if none of 'em work for you, you aren't missing much. ;-) ==== > accessible]. I'm in France. Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? If not, it's merely a French Connection problem. -Joe- ==== > accessible]. I'm in France. Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either >www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? If not, it's merely a French >Connection problem. -Joe- > Yes, from the Netherlands. None of your links work. Arnold ==== Yes, from the Netherlands. None of your links work. I'm in Portug and l the links work fine. Steve Sousa <5YVW9.41030$Hl6.4901328@news010.worldonline.dk> <8bCX9.6585$Sv3.647345@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> ==== > accessible]. I'm in France. Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either > www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? If not, it's merely a French > Connection problem. Just a question... Do you use any of the 'ternative' root name servers? -- ----- L'argument de poids qui dit que mes potes et moi on est d'accord n'avance pas .88 grand chose. On va voter les th.8eoremes, .8da ira plus vite que de les demontrer et elire les annees bisextiles, .8da sera rigolo. -+- BjB in http://neuneu.mine.nu : Le texosaure (s)electif. ==== > accessible]. I'm in France. Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either > www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? If not, it's merely a French > Connection problem. -Joe- I'm in America and can't access any of the holyjoe sites guillen ==== Joseph K. Horn meinte > accessible]. I'm in France. Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either >www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? If not, it's merely a French >Connection problem. At least it works well here in Brussels/Belgium, which is pretty close to France. G.9fnter ==== You are right, the 48 keyboard is great. Too bad my 48SX was stolen. In fact, a 49 G in a 48 case with a 48 keyboard would have been a very good machine for my usage. Jean (Johnny) Lemire from Montre ==== Jean Lemire escribi.97 en el mensaje > In fact, a 49 G in a 48 case with a 48 keyboard would have been a very > good machine for my usage. Just! And so, some of us prefer a 48GX with expanded memory for MK, Erable... ==== > Faster access: the G menu. First page. activities are much shorter now. Here's the most up-to-date list of commands and their menu paths: http://holyjoe.org/cure/hp49gcat.txt -Joe- ==== > Faster access: the G menu. First page. activities are much shorter now. Here's the most up-to-date list of commands and their menu paths: http://holyjoe.org/cure/hp49gcat.txt -Joe- l menus yourself one? If so, how did you do that? Greetings and thanks again, Nick. ==== > Did you rely search l the commands in l menus > yourself one? Yes. > If so, how did you do that? Manuly, going through the Menu Number List one menu at a time. Speaking of which, please be aware that the HP49G Menu Number List has so been updated: http://holyjoe.net/cure/menus.txt Unfortunately, there are many menus in the HP49G which are not numbered. I think that those menus can l be accessed by typing MAIN. The MAIN menu and its submenus are in the MAIN Menu List at http://holyjoe.net/cure/main.txt -Joe- ==== I was reading at another music related ng, and someone posted a message asking about an utility to cculate the duration of a beat in miliseconds when a beats per minute rate was given. It is simple math in this case, but hey, I have a 48. A form driven app would be just fine. Things to consider: delay times, unit conversions reated to acoustics in gener, maybe a few reference tables for midi specs and basic music, such as chord construction maybe... I guess I'm not completely clear about the requirements, but the idea is there. I'll think about it. It is a good proyect for a rookie like me (both in recording as well as HP-48 programming) Toby > Is there such library? To work with sound, rates, dB, notes, harmonies, > Spl, etc. Basicly collecting l the math required in a sound > recording studio. Well, I've got the tech/music quifications if you can expand on what > you're after. A library for studio design would be much more > complicated than one for studio operation, which isn't l that > technic. And when you say notes, harmonies, etc, what are you > looking for? This could be a fun project if people contribute their wants and > ideas. Bill ==== > P.S. BTW, how long did the cculation of 9999! take on the > cculator? Actuly I don't know, I let it run after dinner until I came back from work next day, which was just before dinner. It did within 24 hours. How do I time how long it takes to do a cculation? -- ==== P.S. BTW, how long did the cculation of 9999! take on the > cculator? Actuly I don't know, I let it run after dinner until I came back > from work next day, which was just before dinner. Poor fella HP49G, had to crunch on numbers while the rest of the family was having dinner. Hope that you gave it its reward next morning. (A juicy set of new batteries, yummy! ;-)) > It did within 24 hours. How do I time how long it takes to do > a cculation? You can use the command TEV. In this case you could for example enter the number 9999, then enter the program << ! >, and then press [TEV]. The program would be evuated, and the result of 9999! would be returned on stack level 2. The time in seconds to accomplish the task would be returned on stack level 1. Sleepy ==== >Is the HP49 the only cculator that can give an exact result? Can other >math software even do that? > I don't know about other cculators but Mathematica or Maple can > certainly give you the exact result. >Now I gotta find a way to approximate pi to like 1000 digits. > In Mathematica you would enter N[Pi,1000]. Did the same on the 48 ;-) (with a little bit of ML programming) ==== Is the HP49 the only cculator that can give an exact result? Can other >math software even do that? > I don't know about other cculators but Mathematica or Maple can > certainly give you the exact result. >Now I gotta find a way to approximate pi to like 1000 digits. > In Mathematica you would enter N[Pi,1000]. Did the same on the 48 ;-) (with a little bit of ML programming) You are heading for Mathematica48? ;-) -- ==== ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????[NonBr ea kingSpace]??????????????????????[NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace]???? ??? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ??????????????[NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace]?????????????????????? ??? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????[NonBreaki ng Space]ò??????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????[NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace ][N onBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace] [No nBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace][NonBreakingSpace]? ???? ?????????????????????????.86???????????????????????????????? ??????????????? ==== I recently checked the hp website in hopes of replacing my broken > 32SII (Dropped on the floor). Anyway I had heard that l scientific > cculators in RPN had been lost (sobbing,crying,wailing). Even if RPN > is lost I still love the feel of an HP keyboard over any other brand > like TI,Casio, or Sharp. So I decided to buy the 20S. The last HP The 20S has been discontinued over 3 years ago now... The main decision > behind it was the obvious fact it was not selling at l. > The 32S is probably due to the lack of main components That's not true. About 3 weeks before I tked to you the 20S was on the HP store website (This was before my 32SII broke). CID ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** I was just kind of wondering what are bits RST & GRST at #00109 in IO RAM used for. And is it possible to make comma mode on HP49 ? not key combination! , but ML. Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== >**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** >I was just kind of wondering what are bits RST & GRST at #00109 in IO RAM >used for. These are the status bits that are used to differentiate a software reset from a hardware reset. RST is set when the Yorke IC reset pin is pulled low, for example, by a user initiated paper clip reset. GRST is set when the Yorke Power-On Reset circuitry detects a power supply glitch and subsequently performs a hardware reset. This is needed so that the chip is in a known state after loss of power, such as if the batteries run out and the memory back-up capacitor is drained. If not for this then the CPU would go haywire upon power-up as the intern registers are volatile and take on random/unknown vues after a power loss. AFAIK, the only place these two registers are used is in the warmstart code so that it can determine the correct failure code to record in the warmstart log. >And is it possible to make comma mode on HP49 ? not key combination! , but >ML. Yes, as the 48 and 49 use the same hardware. If anyone finds any inaccuracies in this information then please feel free to correct me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Jonathan Busby p.92se v diskusn.92m pr.92spevku **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** >I was just kind of wondering what are bits RST & GRST at #00109 in IO RAM >used for. These are the status bits that are used to differentiate a software > reset from a hardware reset. RST is set when the Yorke IC reset pin is > pulled low, for example, by a user initiated paper clip reset. GRST > is set when the Yorke Power-On Reset circuitry detects a power supply > glitch and subsequently performs a hardware reset. This is needed so > that the chip is in a known state after loss of power, such as if the > batteries run out and the memory back-up capacitor is drained. If not > for this then the CPU would go haywire upon power-up as the intern > registers are volatile and take on random/unknown vues after a power > loss. AFAIK, the only place these two registers are used is in the > warmstart code so that it can determine the correct failure code to > record in the warmstart log. And is it possible to make comma mode on HP49 ? not key combination! , but >ML. Yes, as the 48 and 49 use the same hardware. But how ? preferably in ML. > If anyone finds any inaccuracies in this information then please feel > free to correct me. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Jonathan Busby - before replying. > Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== > And is it possible to make comma mode on HP49 ? not key combination! > but ML. > Yes, as the 48 and 49 use the same hardware. As far as I know there is no key on the 49 which sets it in coma. The only possibility to make a pause for sever month or perhaps years (?) is to save everthing in port 2 and take the batteries out. Perhaps you could sent me a code which rely sets the 49 in coma mode. That would perhaps be useful because one saves battery manipulation. PS. Programming on the 49 in SysRPL or ML has meanwhile become very convenient (e.g., doing it at night when no PC is running). But doing it intensively just a week's time, a set of fresh batteries is gone :-) ==== How do u solve a system of linear equations on the HP49G? I don't understand the entry of the coefficients through matrices. EX. -3X+6Y=4 2X+Y=4 ( I know the answer to this is obvious but it is just an example!) Thanxs in Advance CID ==== > How do u solve a system of linear equations on the HP49G? I don't > understand the entry of the coefficients through matrices. EX. > -3X+6Y=4 > 2X+Y=4 > ( I know the answer to this is obvious but it is just an example!) Thanxs in Advance CID Well, especily for linear systems the HP49G provides so many commands that it sometimes becomes hard to remember them l. I'll describe some of them and their inputs, and hopefully the guys out there will complete the list of possibilities. 1) You can use LINSOLVE. This command is in menu S.SLV. It takes the vector of equations and the vector of variables as arguments. Example: Go to the Matrix Writer, press [EQW] and enter -3X+6Y=4. Press [ENTER]. Press again [EQW], enter 2X+Y=4 and press [ENTER]. Press [ENTER] to put the vector [-3X+6Y=4 2X+Y=4] on stack level 1. Enter the vector [X Y]. Press LINSOLVE and you get [X=4/3 Y=4/3] (and other information). 2) You can use / (yes, that is the norm divide key). The function / can so take the vector of constants and the matrix of coefficients as arguments. In your example we have: -3X+6Y=4 2X+ Y=4 The vector of constants is [4 4]. The matrix of coeffs is [[-3 6][2 1]]. So you enter these two things in order and press [/]. The result is [4/3 4/3] which is the vector of solutions in order [X Y]. 3) You can use the command RREF. This takes as argument the augmented matrix of coefficients and constants. For your example it looks like: [[-3 6 4][2 1 4]]. Enter this matrix, press RREF and the result is: [[1 0 4/3][0 1 4/3]]. The interpretation of this result is: 1*X+0*Y=4/3 , 0*X+1*Y=4/3 which is the same as X=4/3 , Y=4/3 . so take a look at the commans rref (not the same like RREF) and REF. If you have more equations than unknowns, then you can use the command LSQ, which finds vues for the unknowns, such that the equations are satisfied as good as possible in the least square approximation. Example system: 1*X+2*X=1 4*X+7*Y=2 3*X+2*Y=3 Enter the vector of constants [1 2 3]. Enter the matrix of coefficients [[1 2][4 7][3 2]]. Press LSQ. The result is the vector [1.25... -.40....]. These are the vues for X and Y, which make the three linear equations be satisfied as good as possible. (This example is only for demonstration purposes, otherwise it sucks.) To see how much inaccuracy yyou have in the solutions, you can use the command RSD, which finds the residus. It takes as arguments: The vector of constants, the matrix of coefficients, and the vector of solutions. Example: 1.01*X+2*Y =3 3.02*X+5.99*Y=9.01 This is an ill conditioned system. Enter the vector of costants [3 9.01], and the matrix of coefficients [[1.01 2][3.02 5.99]]. Press DUP to make a copy of the matrix. Press [COND] to find that the condition of the matrix is 7271.70...., which is very big and indicates an ill conditioned matrix. COND should return numbers about 1 for good conditioned systems. DROP the condition number and press DUP2 to make copies of the vector and the matrix. Press [/]. The returned solutions of the system are [-5.05.. 4.05..]. How good are these solutions? Press [ENTER] to make a copy of the solutions and then enter 4 ROLLD to order the arguments for LSQ as needed. Press [RSD]. The result is [.0000000065 .00000001947]. This is the first order deviation of the returned solutions from the re solutions. Press [+] to add this to the returned solutions. The result is a vector with corrected solutions. I hope that it helped. ==== > -3X+6Y=4 > 2X+Y=4 > ... LINSOLVE ... > ... /... > ... RREF ... Don't forget about the MSLV command (in the NUM.SLV menu, item 6), which so works for non-linear systems. [ '-3*X+6*Y=4' '2*X+Y=4' ] <--- the system of equations. [ 'X' 'Y' ] <--- the variables to solve for. [ 1 1 ] <----- initi guesses for X and Y. MSLV XQ --> [ 4/3 4/3 ] It leaves the level 2 and level 3 inputs on the stack, so that you can search for multiple solutions by specifying different guesses. And like the menu 30 solver, it lets you watch the iterative process in action. It's slow, but cool. Inappropriate for linear systems, I guess, but fun to play with nonetheless. -Joe- ==== > -3X+6Y=4 > 2X+Y=4 > > ... LINSOLVE ... > ... /... > ... RREF ... Don't forget about the MSLV command (in the NUM.SLV menu, item 6), which > so works for non-linear systems. [ '-3*X+6*Y=4' '2*X+Y=4' ] <--- the system of equations. > [ 'X' 'Y' ] <--- the variables to solve for. > [ 1 1 ] <----- initi guesses for X and Y. > MSLV XQ --> [ 4/3 4/3 ] It leaves the level 2 and level 3 inputs on the stack, so that you can > search for multiple solutions by specifying different guesses. And like the > menu 30 solver, it lets you watch the iterative process in action. It's > slow, but cool. Inappropriate for linear systems, I guess, but fun to play > with nonetheless. And yet another one, thanks Joe! Yes, perhaps not designed especily for linear systems, but it can solve them, and has so its advantages. BTW, now that you said that, add another of the inappropriate commands to the list. GBASIS and GREDUCE. Mama mia! Do we have l now? ==== How do u solve a system of linear equations on the HP49G? I don't > understand the entry of the coefficients through matrices. EX. > -3X+6Y=4 > 2X+Y=4 > ( I know the answer to this is obvious but it is just an example!) Thanxs in Advance CID > Well, especily for linear systems the HP49G provides so many > commands that it sometimes becomes hard to remember them l. I'll > describe some of them and their inputs, and hopefully the guys out > there will complete the list of possibilities. 1) You can use LINSOLVE. This command is in menu S.SLV. > It takes the vector of equations and the vector of > variables as arguments. > Example: Go to the Matrix Writer, press [EQW] and > enter -3X+6Y=4. Press [ENTER]. Press again [EQW], > enter 2X+Y=4 and press [ENTER]. Press [ENTER] to > put the vector [-3X+6Y=4 2X+Y=4] on stack level 1. > Enter the vector [X Y]. Press LINSOLVE and you get > [X=4/3 Y=4/3] (and other information). 2) You can use / (yes, that is the norm divide key). > The function / can so take the vector of constants > and the matrix of coefficients as arguments. In your > example we have: > -3X+6Y=4 > 2X+ Y=4 > The vector of constants is [4 4]. The matrix of coeffs > is [[-3 6][2 1]]. So you enter these two things in > order and press [/]. The result is [4/3 4/3] which is > the vector of solutions in order [X Y]. 3) You can use the command RREF. This takes as argument > the augmented matrix of coefficients and constants. > For your example it looks like: [[-3 6 4][2 1 4]]. > Enter this matrix, press RREF and the result is: > [[1 0 4/3][0 1 4/3]]. The interpretation of this > result is: 1*X+0*Y=4/3 , 0*X+1*Y=4/3 which is the > same as X=4/3 , Y=4/3 . so take a look at the commans rref (not the same like RREF) and REF. If you have more equations than unknowns, then you can use the command > LSQ, which finds vues for the unknowns, such that the equations are > satisfied as good as possible in the least square approximation. Example system: > 1*X+2*X=1 > 4*X+7*Y=2 > 3*X+2*Y=3 Enter the vector of constants [1 2 3]. Enter the matrix of > coefficients > [[1 2][4 7][3 2]]. Press LSQ. The result is the vector [1.25... > -.40....]. These are the vues for X and Y, which make the three > linear equations be satisfied as good as possible. (This example is > only for demonstration > purposes, otherwise it sucks.) To see how much inaccuracy yyou have in the solutions, you can use the > command RSD, which finds the residus. It takes as arguments: The > vector of constants, the matrix of coefficients, and the vector of > solutions. > Example: > 1.01*X+2*Y =3 > 3.02*X+5.99*Y=9.01 > This is an ill conditioned system. Enter the vector of costants [3 > 9.01], > and the matrix of coefficients [[1.01 2][3.02 5.99]]. Press DUP to > make a > copy of the matrix. Press [COND] to find that the condition of the > matrix > is 7271.70...., which is very big and indicates an ill conditioned > matrix. > COND should return numbers about 1 for good conditioned systems. DROP > the > condition number and press DUP2 to make copies of the vector and the > matrix. Press [/]. The returned solutions of the system are [-5.05.. > 4.05..]. > How good are these solutions? Press [ENTER] to make a copy of the > solutions > and then enter 4 ROLLD to order the arguments for LSQ as needed. Press > [RSD]. > The result is [.0000000065 .00000001947]. This is the first order > deviation > of the returned solutions from the re solutions. Press [+] to add > this > to the returned solutions. The result is a vector with corrected > solutions. I hope that it helped. > Greetings, > Nick. You can so use SolveSys 49 1.2 by Sune Bredahl, which has so far solved any equation system I've cared to try. Especily useful when RREF doesn't work due to a matrix lacking an inverse, and it doesn't matter if you're solving a linear or nonlinear system. < http://www.hpcc.org/hp49/math/numeric/ss49v12.zip > -- Markus Nylund markus.nylund@arcada.fi 040-5377 377 ==== You can so use SolveSys 49 1.2 by Sune Bredahl, which has so far > solved any equation system I've cared to try. > Especily useful when RREF doesn't work due to a matrix lacking an > inverse, and it doesn't matter if you're solving a linear or nonlinear > system. > < http://www.hpcc.org/hp49/math/numeric/ss49v12.zip ways understandable it isn't the sml machine, but flexible, oh yes it is! ==== Ive had my 49G about a month and have not been using it l the time or anything and it says my batteries are low, is this time span norm? ==== > Ive had my 49G about a month and have not been using it l the time > or anything and it says my batteries are low, is this time span > norm? I've had that happen. Sometimes you get defective batteries right out of the package - even though their voltage looks good at first, they die too soon. The same thing so happens with my HP48 from time to time. Currently, so to speak, I'm having great success with a smart charger that can recharge ordinary kines - in the first test of it, my 49 has just completed three months with the same batteries and *lots* of use. I'll report back on make, model, etc, after a little more testing. Bill ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** If you use rechargable batteries I think this time is quite norm because NiCD and NiMH batteries have quite high self-uncharging(is this the correct english word?) current. As for kine batteries this seams too short. The current comsumed by HP49 is ~45uA so it should last(according to my cculations) for about >1 year. The capacity of a battery was guesses to 1000mAh. By the way, when I was testing NewOS @ 11.00pm HP49 was showing low battery and I left it turned on without auto power off feature overnight. And it was light outside when it died. It might have been about 8:00 am. I use rechargable batteries NiCD 180mAh. > Ive had my 49G about a month and have not been using it l the time > or anything and it says my batteries are low, is this time span > norm? > Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== I'm too the rechargeable batteries (Probattery NiMh (200 @ 600 mAh). The unic invonvenient is the voltaje. Have a 1,2 vdc. But this isn't problem. I'm have a kine battery (by-pass). Remember: If not use the microcomputer, quit the batteries. Miguel Angel CAPORINI HERK **************************************************************************** *** > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** > If you use rechargable batteries I think this time is quite norm because > NiCD and NiMH batteries have quite high self-uncharging(is this the correct > english word?) current. As for kine batteries this seams too short. The > current comsumed by HP49 is ~45uA so it should last(according to my > cculations) for about >1 year. The capacity of a battery was guesses to > 1000mAh. > By the way, when I was testing NewOS @ 11.00pm HP49 was showing low battery > and I left it turned on without auto power off feature overnight. And it was > light outside when it died. It might have been about 8:00 am. I use > rechargable batteries NiCD 180mAh. Ive had my 49G about a month and have not been using it l the time > or anything and it says my batteries are low, is this time span > norm? > Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** > http://www.usenet.com > Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== If you did'nt regular use the HP-49G, you must quit the batteries. Is equ what lantern. The current fluxing too in the sleep mode. Normly the life of cine battery is two (2) months aprox., but this depend if you use with the protocol transfer. Miguel Angel CAPORINI HERK **************************************************************************** **** > Ive had my 49G about a month and have not been using it l the time > or anything and it says my batteries are low, is this time span > norm? > ==== > Ive had my 49G about a month and have not been using it l the time > or anything and it says my batteries are low, is this time span > norm? > Well, about a month is how long the batteries in my HP49G last. But I use it very often. So, perhaps the batteries you used were not very new? ==== Is there a command to complete the square? ==== > Is there a command to complete the square? sum or difference of squares. Example: Enter X^2-X*Y (the expression) Enter [X Y] (the variables) Press or enter GAUSS to get [1 1/4] [[1 -1/2][0 1]] -1/4*Y^2+((-Y+2*X)/2)^2 [X Y] so take a look at the commands AXQ and QXA. You can find brief help for GAUSS AXQ and QXA using the built-in command catog of the HP49G. I hope that this was what you wanted. ==== I was wondering if it would be possible to use a 48g to send ascii characters to a computer through the keyboard port on a motherboard. I have recently been playing with EMC which is a linux based motion control program for controlling CNC machines. It works quite well and would be even better if I could rig up a remote pendant to jog the machine while keeping the main keyboard away from coolant and chips. I looked at repackaging keys and chips from an old keyboard to make the pendant and then school started again. Trying to program a 48g to transmit the proper characters would teach me more and result in a much more elegant package than I would make. The main requirements would be transmitting the same input as a standard computer keyboard for the following keys: pg up, pg down, up down left and right arrows, home, i, c, x, y, z, esc, <, >, and F3. Is this possible through the seri port? Any ideas hints or suggestions are appreciated. Howard Bailey ==== A standard PC's keyboard port is a synchronously clocked TTL sign, not the asynchronous RS-232 sign that the HPs use. A converter can be created but... Can you tell the software to use a seri port for its input? Any number of termin programs - or a simple dedicated program - could supply the characters through the seri port that way. If the controller is PC compatible, there are likely utilities to make seri input acceptable to the control software. Best to you with the project! Jim ==== Oliver Cairncross escribi.97 en el mensaje > Is Java compatible with Metakernel? No: but the good thing is that you will not miss Java when using MK (IMHO) > I'm thinking of getting a GX and loading it to the gills with software > 'cause I don't want a 49 ==== 1. Suppose you are in the filer in a port. A HOME backup in this port is a directory which can be entered with RightArrow, as can every backup of a directory. While the filer normly doesn't show the hidden directory, in a HOME backup it is seen at the very end of the file listing. DO NOT ENTER IT WITH RIGHTARROW, YOU RISK A TTRM. 2. While the ARCHIVE command accepts long port names (which may contain a HOME backup under the name 2:HOME27.2.03 8:15 say, but one cannot RESTORE it. Even if the time is omitted in which date format. By the way, this is a good example of the usefullness of planned for ROM 19-7 is much easier customizable by those familiar with SysRPL but it has still the bug under 1. Moreover, RightArrow does not drive into a library's command menu anymore. Is this intended? so the NEW diog box has its topics still upside turned down. It seems to me that the planned Search option is too fussy (much easier in my filers). Finly, the keys dot, 0, 1, 2 should list HOME and the corresponding port menus, resp. so if being in a directory, for instance (this too is reized ready in my filers :-) To be continued if time lows ... ==== ?? Do you rely expect him to reply on bugs in a product he hasn't been paid to work on for over a year? Just wondering... ==== > ?? Do you rely expect him to reply on bugs in a product he hasn't > been paid to work on for over a year? Just wondering... Creative people like there creations, the more other people like it. Hence, you can be sure that JYA continues to work on the HP49 ROM :-) address ... I've to modify the following text in my critics of the future filer: Finly, the keys dot, 0, 1, 2 should list HOME and the corresponding port menus, resp. so if being in a directory, for instance The immediate port setting on keys 0, 1 ,2 is running perfect. The only problem is with the dot key. It cls the HOME browser only in the TREE mode. IMHO, it should do that ways, whenever wanted by the user. Thus, there should be a choice option { NULL$ 0 46 TakeOver 49 } with BINT46 handling the HOME browser. By the way, in the 19-7 filer program-draft programming perhaps too fast :-) ==== > 2:HOME27.2.03 8:15 *and* sorting by name will give more meaningful results. Greetings Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, confuse them. -- Harry S. Truman ==== > 2:HOME27.2.03 8:15 > *and* sorting by name will give more meaningful results. Your propos makes the name nearly unreadable for a norm human being, Filer2 which sets a ARCHIVE/RESTORE choose box inside the filer (see the screenshot Filer.gif on my site below) omit the time and append to HOME only the date. Either in EU or in US format, depending on flag -42. It is unlikely that somebody makes sever HOME backups the same day, and even if, he has 3 ports to the dispos and may make addition backups in the tradition way by hand. For RESTORE, Filers.txt proposes sorting by type, not name, to have l candidates for RESTORE closely together, exactly the ones of type DIR. Nontheless, it would be much better if RESTORE accepts long names as does ARCHIVE. ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/tools/ ==== you could so use Archiv 1.01, which is a further development of BACK MANAGE 49 v1.0 by Javier G.97mez. ItÇs a tiny tool, which automaticly creates a backup of HOME and PORT0 and stores the backup time-stamped in PORT2. Keeping it in PORT2 it easily shows l backups in PORT2 sorted by date and so lows an easy recovery of HOME and PORT0. Greetings Andreas > 2:HOME27.2.03 8:15 > *and* sorting by name will give more meaningful results. Your propos makes the name nearly unreadable for a norm human being, > Filer2 which sets a ARCHIVE/RESTORE choose box inside the filer (see the > screenshot Filer.gif on my site below) omit the time and append to HOME > only the date. Either in EU or in US format, depending on flag -42. It > is unlikely that somebody makes sever HOME backups the same day, and > even if, he has 3 ports to the dispos and may make addition backups > in the tradition way by hand. For RESTORE, Filers.txt proposes sorting > by type, not name, to have l candidates for RESTORE closely together, > exactly the ones of type DIR. Nontheless, it would be much better if > RESTORE accepts long names as does ARCHIVE. > ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/tools/ ==== > you could so use Archiv 1.01, ... ItÇs a tiny tool IMHO, a lib of 3.8 KB for a single task is not at l a tiny tool :-) Filer1 or Filer2 need only 1.8 KB, with the ARCHIVE/RESTORE choose box ready included! Moreover, it seems that archiving that covers port 0 is useful for speci tasks only. My present filer versions create a HOME backup either under the name HOME27.2.03 or HOME2-27-03 depending on flag -42 which toggles EU/US date format, and if it will be symbol 173. Clearly, so / cannot be used in the US format (it could if backups the same day in the same port, in ternative date formats :-) I experimented with a choose box collecting l candidates for RESTORE. But due to the type ordering facility, this is rely unnecessary. What is important is that memory is perfectly controlled by the filer itself. If HOME has not enough free RAM for reizing ARCHIVE or RESTORE, nice error messages appear and nothing else happes - you remain in the filer. ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/tools/ ==== > IMHO, a lib of 3.8 KB for a single task is not at l a tiny tool :-) Maybe not tiny, but useful and PORT2 is quite large :-) > Moreover, it seems that archiving that covers port 0 > is useful for speci tasks only. IMHO it is usefull in gener, because PORT0 is the fastest port and PORT2 is the savest port, while programming on the cc can lead to a TTRM once in a while the last status of the cc can easily be restored. Greetings Andreas ==== > you could so use Archiv 1.01, ... ItÇs a tiny tool IMHO, a lib of 3.8 bytes for a single task is not at l a tiny tool :-) Filer1 or Filer2 need only 1.8 KB, with the ARCHIVE/RESTORE choose box ready included! Moreover, it seems that archiving that covers port 0 is useful for speci tasks only. My present filer versions create a HOME backup either under the name HOME27.2.03 or HOME2-27-03 depending on flag -42 which toggles EU/US date format, and if it will be symbol 173. Clearly, so / cannot be used in the US format (it could if backups the same day in the same port, in ternative date formats :-) I experimented with a choose box collecting l candidates for RESTORE. But due to the type ordering facility, this is rely unnecessary. What is important is that memory is perfectly controlled by the filer itself. If HOME has not enough free RAM for reizing ARCHIVE or RESTORE, nice error messages appear and nothing else happes - you remain in the filer. ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/tools/ ==== Your propos makes the name nearly unreadable for a norm human being, > I made similar experiments ready :-). above), which makes it a slight bit more readable. But as you said, the time is rarely needed. Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, confuse them. -- Harry S. Truman ==== (sorry i don;t have much time today) you could look at reity from a scientific point of view (what is being done here). this point of view is just a point of view between the many floating around. a person who has studied lots of mathematics will use his knowledge to interpretate the world with more math. the person who has spent lots of time reading science will use his knowledge to explain things more scientificly, and so and so. we tint our reity with our knowledge. like when a person finds out that his body is made of molecules he/she may choose to think that he/she is a scientific object and say that that is the reity of his body. though true, that point of view is just one in the many and to think that that is the only or absolute reity would be living on a self made world. for example, you can look at a table and depending on your interests come up with a description. a description of something that exists is ways an interpretation that suits the interpreter depending on his/her interests. science is just another interpretation (a practic one, which i like) of that which exists. the fact that precedes l facts is you (or i). you (or i) see things in a certain way, and that what you see (understand/interpretate) is your reity at that moment. ==== (sorry i don;t have much time today) HP49G-experiments again? ;-) > you could look at reity from a scientific point of view (what is > being done here). this point of view is just a point of view between > the many floating around. a person who has studied lots of mathematics > will use his knowledge to interpretate the world with more math. the > person who has spent lots of time reading science will use his > knowledge to explain things more scientificly, and so and so. we > tint our reity with our knowledge. like when a person finds out that > his body is made of molecules he/she may choose to think that he/she > is a scientific object and say that that is the reity of his body. > though true, that point of view is just one in the many and to think > that that is the only or absolute reity would be living on a self > made world. for example, you can look at a table and depending on your > interests come up with a description. a description of something that > exists is ways an interpretation that suits the interpreter > depending on his/her interests. science is just another interpretation > (a practic one, which i like) of that which exists. the fact that precedes l facts is you (or i). you (or i) see things > in a certain way, and that what you see (understand/interpretate) is > your reity at that moment. In fully agreement, with some commends. I would make a sml (vague) exception regarding mathematics, and that is because mathematics/logic seems to be the basis of l our thinking. (Not sure, but the newest brain experiments *seem* to certify that - even feelings seem to be very logic and materi in nature.) So, if the brain, which was made by a nature that we now want to understand, was made in this way that its kernel runs mathematicly, then one could tend to say that it will best fit nature/reity using exactly this way of thinking. It does l what it does inside the laws which created it. On the other hand, this is not necessary. It could so be that we, humans, recognize too many patterns, where perhaps no patterns exist. We tend very often to generize specific observations and make them to rules/laws, which we expect to govern the world, without any further proof. For example: Take the first law of thermodynamics. It was never proven but only certified over and over again in many many (but not infinite many) experiments. We see that a speci behavior repeats itself again and again, and then we say that this again and again is the same like ways. This is not deduction. This is induction, and so not perfect induction. It has been fruitable (and gave as machines, cars and the like), but it is not 100% sure that this has to be a law of nature, though very very very unlikely that it could be the other way around. It is very very very unlikely that we made l experiments that show us that this is a law, and none of the experiments that show the opposite, but it is not impossible. The other way, deduction, is so not necessarily absolute in what it says, because it needs axioms, things to start with, and these things are taken for the truth with no further justification. For example, nobody up to today can *prove* that A=A, though we seem to be incapable of even imagining the opposite. Any statement that results through deduction out of unproven axioms, is proven within and only within this set of axioms, even if those axioms seem to be of univers vidity. What remains? most nothing? Not at l! The fact that we have managed to do so much (and meanwhile are able to destroy our planet) is a strong indicator that our vision of reity has to be at least very close to re reity. I would say damned close! Being happy that I can understand a tiny part of what is, I send my greetings to l, who I never proved they exist. Nick. ==== due to markus keller. zxcvbnm -- Christian ==== Since long I've been looking for a programm that is able to approximate a fractionary number to binary wothout crunchin the fractionary part. Using (in HP49): R->B appears to operate as (sorry for the pseudocode!) < as a result (it should be rather cled N->B :å) My question is if anyone could help me with a USER RPL program that does the correct approximation. Some examples are: 0.0952 --> 0.00011 0.309 --> 0.010011 0.857 --> 0.11011 Any ideas??? This is part of an Elias-Fano coding so if anyone has a routine for this then perfect!!! ==== > My question is if anyone could help me with a USER RPL program that > does the correct approximation. Some examples are: 0.0952 --> 0.00011 > 0.309 --> 0.010011 > 0.857 --> 0.11011 An excellent base converter, which handles decims just fine, is Ian Smith's old BASECC program: http://www.hpcc.org/details.php?id=1448 ==== > An excellent base converter, which handles decims just fine, is Ian > Smith's old BASECC program: > http://www.hpcc.org/details.php?id=1448 ==== >Since long I've been looking for a programm that is able to >approximate a fractionary number to binary wothout crunchin the >fractionary part. Using (in HP49): R->B appears to operate as (sorry for the pseudocode!) < {ceil; > binary; > } > else 0; >as a result (it should be rather cled N->B :å) My question is if anyone could help me with a USER RPL program that >does the correct approximation. Some examples are: 0.0952 --> 0.00011 >0.309 --> 0.010011 >0.857 --> 0.11011 The way to do this is to keep multiplying by the base and taking any fraction part. To convert 0.25 into binary we do: 0.25 * 2 = 0.50; IP for 0; FP for remainder of .5 0.5 * 2 = 1.00; IP for 1; FP for remainder of .0 0.0 * 2 = 0.00; IP for 0; FP for remainder of .0 0.0 * 2 = 0.00; IP for 0; FP for remainder of .0 0.0 * 2 = 0.00; IP for 0; FP for remainder of .0 0.0 * 2 = 0.00; IP for 0; FP for remainder of .0 0.0 * 2 = 0.00; IP for 0; FP for remainder of .0 The binary sequence you want is the result of the IP operations which in this case would be .0100000... To convert .1 decim to binary: 0.1 * 2 = 0.2; IP 0; FP .2 0.2 * 2 = 0.4; IP 0; FP .4 0.4 * 2 = 0.8; IP 0; FP .8 0.8 * 2 = 1.6; IP 0; FP .6 0.6 * 2 = 1.2; IP 1; FP .2 0.2 * 2 = 0.4; IP 0; FP .4 0.4 * 2 = 0.8; IP 0; FP .8 0.8 * 2 = 1.6; IP 0; FP .6 0.6 * 2 = 1.2; IP 1; FP .2 0.2 * 2 = 0.4; IP 0; FP .4 so 0.1 decim is binary 0.000010001... with the 0001 repeating forever. This makes sense because multiplying .1 with 2 will never result in a FP of 0. This is why many computers, that use binary for their floating point representation (i.e. 80x86s), don't give correct answers for something like: .1 + .1 + .1 where the HP, (which uses BCD floating point), will give the correct answer. To represent 0.1 in binary floating point requires an infinite number of bits. forgot, customize your keyboard...I think that I've only numbers, arithmetic operators and F1-F6 in their origin place !!!! ==== ==== For l guitar players with HP48: I have uploaded a collection of guitar chords for the program chordbuilder to hpcc.org: http://www.hpcc.org/details.php?id=5420 ==== I have a problem using the 'relative copy' function of XCell 2.0 on my HP48: Absolute copy is working. I set the cursor on the first cell to copy, press 'B', move the cursor to the last cell, press 'ENTER', go to the destination cell and press '<-'. But this does not change formulas to reflect the new position of the formula in the destination cell. When I try a relative copy with 'C', move, 'ENTER', move, '<-' I get nothing. ==== > I just bought an HP 48G cculator from EBay and I'm having a helluva time ways take a look at www.hpcc.org For starter docs look here: http://www.hpcc.org/hp48/docs/misc/ Here's the direct link to what you should read first: http://www.hpcc.org/hp48/docs/misc/hp48gug.zip ==== trying to find the manu for this thing on the internet... can someone help? http://www.hpcc.org/hp48/docs/misc/hp48gug.zip http://www.hpcc.org/hp48/docs/programming/aug012.zip ==== IÇve for a very long time had some problems with my cc restarting, but now IÇve got a brand new hp49G cc and loaded it with the library of equations 0.1 from hpcc.org and it didnÇt take long before my cc did a soft reboot again. It often happens when I use the library of equations 0.1, but I like the program a lot, since there are formulas for columns and beams etc., which I use in my school. Am I the only person here, that uses the library of equations that get these soft reboot problems??? Since I didnÇt have many librarys instled other than this library it seems like it could be corrupt somehow or I think there must be a bug in the program... Is the development of the library finished? I could sure use some more formulas and I hope that the development of the library continues so that a version 1.0, could be released? What does everybody else have to say about that? Martin J.