B339 Subject: Re: help on cheating ;)) > There is a program called Study101 that's available in lots of > places. The source code is pretty simple: << 1 10 for x x class /->tag dup attend next > 1 10 for y obj/-> drop study /->tag msgbox > while examdate date > examtime time > OR > repeat studymore end > permit_calc_reset > This program will store all the important information from your > courses in an area of user memory that is not affected by > normal HP purge routines. > I don't speak for the off-white house when I post here. DA. He speaks, and no one understands. Is it a generation-gap thing? ==== Subject: Re: help on cheating ;)) > There is a program called Study101 that's available in lots of >places. The source code is pretty simple: << 1 10 for x x class /->tag dup attend next > 1 10 for y obj/-> drop study /->tag msgbox > while examdate date > examtime time > OR > repeat studymore end > permit_calc_reset > This program will store all the important information from your >courses in an area of user memory that is not affected by >normal HP purge routines. >. >------ >I don't speak for the off-white house when I post here. DA. >He speaks, and no one understands. Is it a generation-gap thing? >> The way I was taught is that the calculator sometime might fail (dead batteries), then what do you do. Students with calculators with no kind of backup battery are in for a surprise when they have to replace them. For as long as I've used HP's there is a capacitor that holds a charge for about a minute without wiping memory clean. As far as understanding the subject matter how does a teacher know that you know it if you have to use a calculator. There is a posting in here somewhere that when, and then are we supposed to design calculators of the future if someone doesn't know how to add 2+2 without the use of a calculator. Also for people who cheat on exams are cheating on no one but themselves. I personally don't think you will be able to hold a job for very long if you can't do the work you are required to do. Besides maybe these companys require you to do the work by yourself without the use of a calculator or computer. If you think you can cheat on that then you are a fool because many people have to prove themselves worthy to do important projects. BTW what if 100 people die because inept attitude about cheating, or maybe worse. When you cheat you are cheating no one but you. So what good is an education. ==== Subject: Re: help on cheating ;)) >The way I was taught is that the calculator sometime might fail (dead >batteries), then >what do you do. Students with calculators with no kind of backup battery >are in for >a surprise when they have to replace them. For as long as I've used HP's >there is a capacitor that holds a charge for about a minute without >wiping memory clean. Isn't there a COMMA-mode for such emergencies (I love ON-. . It RULES! :)). And then you can change batteries for a longer period of time (I always hate to change batteries fast. If I put them wrong everything goes KABOOOOM :)) ==== Subject: Re: help on cheating ;)) <36E8D52D.7C4DD451@wico.net> <36EF6C50.4445BA81@worldnet.att.net> then you can change > batteries for a longer period of time (I always hate to change batteries > fast. If I put them wrong everything goes KABOOOOM :)) Coma mode, yes. On two occasions I've tried to show someone how I can drop the batteries out with the calculator on, and put them back in without memory loss, and both times I've accidentally put them in backward. -- ==== Subject: Re: help on cheating ;)) I don't know if this idea can be useful to you, but sometimes what I do is the following: I assign the following program to the VAR key: << OFF >> simple isn't it? You can always say to your teacher that your calculator doesn't work properly and that sometimes it shuts down when it shouldn't do it and you cannot have access to the programs you've got stored in it :) Anyway if your teacher is very adept at using HP48 (he could even be reading what we're writing here) I think that you'd better try another thing. Best wishes. . http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: Communication > But with DOS programs, I don't have connection; what could that be? Can't I > use the Com 2 and com 4, even if not at the same time? They use both per default the same IRQ unless you have a COM card with different settings. Thats may be the problem. > Which program is the best to transfer files from the HP to the PC, in their > original form, not converting? Have you had a look on the HPShell ? http://hpshell.wellige.com If you don't want the files to be touched (connverted) during transmission by the HPShell switch binary in the send/receive dialog on or switch the autoconversion in the program's settings of. > And the best Homepages in the Net? http://www.hpcalc.org !!! -- http://www.wellige.com http://hpshell.wellige.com http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: Communication >I have a HP 48 GX, and an interface cable plugged at Com 2, in my PC. I have >an internal modem at Com 4, IRQ 3. >Everything runs ok with the Win95 HP Explorer, proving that the cable is >working. >But with DOS programs, I don't have connection; what could that be? Can't I >use the Com 2 and com 4, even if not at the same time? perhaps Com2 and Com4 uses the same controller >Which program is the best to transfer files from the HP to the PC, in their >original form, not converting? Hpcomm, a great and powerful program at : http://over.to/hpcomm >And the best Homepages in the Net? http://www.hpcalc.org http://hp48ezine.tsx.org http://www.hpcalc.com .88+ ____________________________________________________________________ ==== Subject: Re: Communication >>But with DOS programs, I don't have connection; what could that be? Can't I >>use the Com 2 and com 4, even if not at the same time? Com 2 and Com 4 share IRQ 3 by default in the basic Dos PC architecture. The distinction between the devices is in the address 3FXh vs 3EXh. There appears to be a hardware reason, why both cannot share this IRQ using a software check of the receive register (possibly a totem pole output vs. an open collector). However, if one device is not initialized, the other device can fully use the interrupt correctly by itself. (The uninitialized device remains in Tri-state) Try not initializing the device, by disabling any drivers associated with the modem before boot-up, then see if comm 4 works by itself. Another option, depending on your communications software would be to reconfigure Comm4 via jumper on the board, and communications software to use free interrupt. I have had success using IRQ5, (alternate printer under DOS). Procomm supports selection of the interrupt used by its communications ports. You've exhausted my knowledge of the comm ports. Good luck. WilliamTStorey ==== Subject: Re: The dreaded TI and Integration There are two major camps of CAS : The big ones and the small ones. The major distinction here is that small ones can run on small, memory > constrained devices like Calculators and HandHelds. You are absolutely correct to say that Derive is not as powerful as > any of the top big ones but Derive IS the best small CAS currently > available. It's kind of hard for me to say this specially considering > that I develop a small CAS called Formulae 1. > I do not agree. I think that Erable and ALG48 combined can be compared to the Derive implementation of the 89. Maybe some integration class are better handled by the TI89, and differential equations is not mature on the 48, but on the other hand you have features of ALG48 or Erable that are simply not available on the TI89 like Berlekamp algorithm for factorization of polynomial over the integers in ALG48 or symbolic eigenvalue/ eigenvectors decomposition in Erable. And did you ever try to simplify the examples of the manual of ALG48 on the TI89? Maybe you are impressed by the TI89 CAS because you do not use a CAS for higher maths. BTW, what are the features of the small CAS you are developing? ==== Subject: Re: The dreaded TI and Integration > and differential equations is not mature on the 48, This is true. Specially when you consider the powerful capabilities to solve simultaneous symbolic second grade differential equations of a software such as Laplace92 or Laplace89 by Lars Friederiksen. I am sure that this will soon be implemented in HP. At least, I hope so, for this is a very important feature in some methods of RCL circuit analysis. Bernard, I know that your latest Erable does handle simultaneous symbolic first grade differential equations. But I could not use that feature to solve my circuit problem, for it did not allowed dY1(t) and dY2(t) to be both in the same equation. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: The dreaded TI and Integration > There are two major camps of CAS : The big ones and the small ones. The major distinction here is that small ones can run on small, memory >constrained devices like Calculators and HandHelds. You are absolutely correct to say that Derive is not as powerful as >any of the top big ones but Derive IS the best small CAS currently >available. It's kind of hard for me to say this specially considering >that I develop a small CAS called Formulae 1. > > I do not agree. I think that Erable and ALG48 combined can be compared > to the Derive implementation of the 89. Maybe some integration class Yes they can be compared but Derive is a better (more complete) implementation. > are better handled by the TI89, and differential equations is not mature > on the 48, but on the other hand you have features of ALG48 or Erable > that are simply not available on the TI89 like Berlekamp algorithm for > factorization of polynomial over the integers in ALG48 or symbolic > eigenvalue/ > eigenvectors decomposition in Erable. I don't have the source code for Derive (off course) but from a preliminary analysis it does seem that the Derive version on the TI does have an implementation of a complete multivariate integer factorization routine. I am not sure which method they used but I would guess p-adic Berlekamp with Hensel Lifting. The PC Derive also has a nice complete multivariate factorization routine over the rationals. You definitively can use Derive/TI to calculate symbolic eigenvalues and eigenvectors. with the symbolic matrix as A, do solve(det(lambda-A)=0,lambda) to get the eigenvalues. For each eigenvalue then use rref(lambda-A) to get the eigenvectors. > And did you ever try to simplify > the examples of the manual of ALG48 on the TI89? > Maybe you are impressed by the TI89 CAS because you do not use a CAS > for higher maths. BTW, what are the features of the small CAS you are > developing? The main feature I am looking in a small CAS designed for Calcs and Students would be to be able to solve most problems a student might come across, and result the expected solution automatically and also be able to show the student every step of the calculation, from Algebra to Matrix, to Calculus and Differential Equations. . ==== Subject: Re: The dreaded TI and Integration I don't have the source code for Derive (off course) but from a > preliminary analysis it does seem that the Derive version on > the TI does have an implementation of a complete multivariate > integer factorization routine. I am not sure which method they > used but I would guess p-adic Berlekamp with Hensel Lifting. a complete multivariate integer factorization. Moreover, even the square-free step may fail since their GCD algorithm seems very unefficient The PC Derive also has a nice complete multivariate factorization > routine over the rationals. > Maybe, but not the TI89 > You definitively can use Derive/TI to calculate symbolic eigenvalues > and eigenvectors. with the symbolic matrix as A, do > solve(det(lambda-A)=0,lambda) to get the eigenvalues. For each > eigenvalue then use rref(lambda-A) to get the eigenvectors. Of course, you can do it by hand but that's the same as making a user change of variables in an integral with Erable, thing you seemed to dislike in a previous post. And when I speak of symbolic eigenvalue/eigenvector, I speak as well of full Jordan reduction when the matrix is not diagonalizable. > The main feature I am looking in a small CAS designed for Calcs and > Students would be to be able to solve most problems a student might > come across, and result the expected solution automatically and also > be able to show the student every step of the calculation, from Algebra > to Matrix, to Calculus and Differential Equations. . Erable has a step by step feature for Gauss-Jordan matrice reduction. I don't think there are step by step feature in the TI89 CAS. ==== Subject: Re: The dreaded TI and Integration > I don't have the source code for Derive (off course) but from a >preliminary analysis it does seem that the Derive version on >the TI does have an implementation of a complete multivariate >integer factorization routine. I am not sure which method they >used but I would guess p-adic Berlekamp with Hensel Lifting. a complete multivariate integer factorization. Moreover, even the > square-free step may fail since their GCD algorithm seems very > unefficient After some more tests, I think they have complete univariate integer factorization. test case (x-1)*(x+2)^2*(x^2+3), expand and then factor worked fine but for this multivariate case (x-y)*(x+y+2)^2*(x^2-y+4) it didn't work. The PC Derive also has a nice complete multivariate factorization >routine over the rationals. > > Maybe, but not the TI89 > You definitively can use Derive/TI to calculate symbolic eigenvalues >and eigenvectors. with the symbolic matrix as A, do >solve(det(lambda-A)=0,lambda) to get the eigenvalues. For each >eigenvalue then use rref(lambda-A) to get the eigenvectors. Of course, you can do it by hand but that's the same as making a user > change > of variables in an integral with Erable, thing you seemed to dislike in > a previous post. And when I speak of symbolic eigenvalue/eigenvector, > I speak as well of full Jordan reduction when the matrix is not > diagonalizable. NOT AT ALL !!! For each integral the substitution is different and sometimes not obvious. Notice that the same command can be used to solve every single eigenvalue and eignevector, so I can set an alias for it. You just can't do this with your integrals since you do rely on the user to figure out what's going on. Older versions of my CAS (called Forumulae 1) was just like yours. The user had to do variable subs, integration by parts, etc. Now the latest version has these older features plus it can also do them automatically and if the user wishes it can also tell you what step it has taken (i.e. I am integrating by parts with... or I am doing this variable sub...). >The main feature I am looking in a small CAS designed for Calcs and >Students would be to be able to solve most problems a student might >come across, and result the expected solution automatically and also >be able to show the student every step of the calculation, from Algebra >to Matrix, to Calculus and Differential Equations. . Erable has a step by step feature for Gauss-Jordan matrice reduction. > I don't think there are step by step feature in the TI89 CAS. Nope but I was talking about the features in my CAS :) since you did ask me. . ==== Subject: Re: The dreaded TI and Integration >I don't have the source code for Derive (off course) but from a >> preliminary analysis it does seem that the Derive version on >> the TI does have an implementation of a complete multivariate >> integer factorization routine. I am not sure which method they >> used but I would guess p-adic Berlekamp with Hensel Lifting. a complete multivariate integer factorization. Moreover, even the >square-free step may fail since their GCD algorithm seems very >unefficient After some more tests, I think they have complete univariate integer > factorization. test case (x-1)*(x+2)^2*(x^2+3), expand and then factor > worked fine but for this multivariate case (x-y)*(x+y+2)^2*(x^2-y+4) > it didn't work. The PC Derive also has a nice complete multivariate factorization >> routine over the rationals. Maybe, but not the TI89 You definitively can use Derive/TI to calculate symbolic eigenvalues >> and eigenvectors. with the symbolic matrix as A, do >> solve(det(lambda-A)=0,lambda) to get the eigenvalues. For each >> eigenvalue then use rref(lambda-A) to get the eigenvectors. Of course, you can do it by hand but that's the same as making a user >change >of variables in an integral with Erable, thing you seemed to dislike in >a previous post. And when I speak of symbolic eigenvalue/eigenvector, >I speak as well of full Jordan reduction when the matrix is not >diagonalizable. NOT AT ALL !!! For each integral the substitution is different and > sometimes not obvious. Notice that the same command can be used to > solve every single eigenvalue and eignevector, so I can set an > alias for it. You just can't do this with your integrals since you > do rely on the user to figure out what's going on. Older versions of my CAS (called Forumulae 1) was just like yours. > The user had to do variable subs, integration by parts, etc. Now > the latest version has these older features plus it can also do > them automatically and if the user wishes it can also tell you > what step it has taken (i.e. I am integrating by parts with... or > I am doing this variable sub...). >The main feature I am looking in a small CAS designed for Calcs and >> Students would be to be able to solve most problems a student might >> come across, and result the expected solution automatically and also >> be able to show the student every step of the calculation, from Algebra >> to Matrix, to Calculus and Differential Equations. . Erable has a step by step feature for Gauss-Jordan matrice reduction. >I don't think there are step by step feature in the TI89 CAS. Nope but I was talking about the features in my CAS :) since you did > ask me. . , Just what kind of crap are you arguing about. I've written about this before and apparently you don't understand. Just what is your point. OK granted th TI89 will out perform the HP48G right now but you dare to compare a symbolic system that 13 years old against something that is just new on the market for about 4 months. One other thing the Erable package was written by one man in his spare time and it can compete with two companies on this discussion. If this one man could put out such a program by himself, think what he could do with two other people not companies. It also seems to me that youv'e gotten off track with this discussion group. This newsgroup is about HP48 calculators not about full blown computer applications. If you want my opinion you are just out to prove that you are right and every body else is wrong. Unquestionably this bothers me since in order for you to quit complaining and proving yourself right and evrybody else wrong you are going to continue to play your little games. I question your moral rights when you have to be right and nobody has the right to call you on it and all you are doing is causing trouble. I have said before and I again reiterate the HP48G is the superior calculator. When is it that someone can compare something that is new to something that is thirteen years old and not have solid platform on which to stand. PERIOD. I congratulate Bernard for the magnificent work that has gone into Erable and alone has done basically te same thing as two full blown companies. ==== Subject: Re: The dreaded TI and Integration >> I don't have the source code for Derive (off course) but from a >>preliminary analysis it does seem that the Derive version on >>the TI does have an implementation of a complete multivariate >>integer factorization routine. I am not sure which method they >>used but I would guess p-adic Berlekamp with Hensel Lifting. a complete multivariate integer factorization. Moreover, even the >> square-free step may fail since their GCD algorithm seems very >> unefficient After some more tests, I think they have complete univariate integer >factorization. test case (x-1)*(x+2)^2*(x^2+3), expand and then factor >worked fine but for this multivariate case (x-y)*(x+y+2)^2*(x^2-y+4) >it didn't work. >> The PC Derive also has a nice complete multivariate factorization >>routine over the rationals. > >Maybe, but not the TI89 > You definitively can use Derive/TI to calculate symbolic eigenvalues >>and eigenvectors. with the symbolic matrix as A, do >>solve(det(lambda-A)=0,lambda) to get the eigenvalues. For each >>eigenvalue then use rref(lambda-A) to get the eigenvectors. Of course, you can do it by hand but that's the same as making a user >> change >> of variables in an integral with Erable, thing you seemed to dislike in >> a previous post. And when I speak of symbolic eigenvalue/eigenvector, >> I speak as well of full Jordan reduction when the matrix is not >> diagonalizable. NOT AT ALL !!! For each integral the substitution is different and >sometimes not obvious. Notice that the same command can be used to >solve every single eigenvalue and eignevector, so I can set an >alias for it. You just can't do this with your integrals since you >do rely on the user to figure out what's going on. Older versions of my CAS (called Forumulae 1) was just like yours. >The user had to do variable subs, integration by parts, etc. Now >the latest version has these older features plus it can also do >them automatically and if the user wishes it can also tell you >what step it has taken (i.e. I am integrating by parts with... or >I am doing this variable sub...). > The main feature I am looking in a small CAS designed for Calcs and >>Students would be to be able to solve most problems a student might >>come across, and result the expected solution automatically and also >>be able to show the student every step of the calculation, from Algebra >>to Matrix, to Calculus and Differential Equations. >> . Erable has a step by step feature for Gauss-Jordan matrice reduction. >> I don't think there are step by step feature in the TI89 CAS. Nope but I was talking about the features in my CAS :) since you did >ask me. . , > Just what kind of crap are you arguing about. I've written about this > before and apparently you don't understand. Just what is your point. OK granted > th TI89 will out perform the HP48G right now but you dare to compare a symbolic > system that 13 years old against something that is just new on the market for > about 4 months. One other thing the Erable package was written by one man in > his spare time and it can compete with two companies on this discussion. If > this one man could put out such a program by himself, think what he could do > with two other people not companies. , The original poster was arguing that since not all integrals are solvable and since the HP can solve integrals that the TI can't and vice versa that you couldn't compare its relative powers w.r.t. integration. My argument is : You can compare them for completeness and in my opinion the TI algorithm is better. This whole thread was about Symbolic Math power !!! I don't care about the calcs age but only its symbolic capabilities. My comment is not able which calc is better but rather which has better integration routines. Derive is older than you think !!! It has been around since the 70's and also was developed by basically ONE man. ONE person (woman/man, I am polically correct :) can always make a difference... If you think you are too small to make a difference, you haven't slept with a morquito yet. > It also seems to me that youv'e gotten off track with this discussion group. > This newsgroup is about HP48 calculators not about full blown computer > applications. If you want my opinion you are just out to prove that you are > right and every body else is wrong. Unquestionably this bothers me since in > order for you to quit complaining and proving yourself right and evrybody else > wrong you are going to continue to play your little games. I question your > moral rights when you have to be right and nobody has the right to call you on > it and all you are doing is causing trouble. That's your opinion and we are all here to voice our opinions. My opinion is that your opinion is wrong. I play no games, haven't you noticed that yet. I work with CAS and I am qualified to compare systems. Please stop making ridiculous comments about me (you are always right and everybody is wrong) and then rationalizing on it (so this bothers me, yatta yatta yatta). > I have said before and I again reiterate the HP48G is the superior calculator. This is YOUR opinion. MY opinion is it depends on the application. Notice that I RESPECTED your opinion, that I didn't conclude anything about you, and that I didn't yatta yatta yatta. > When is it that someone can compare something that is new to something that is > thirteen years old and not have solid platform on which to stand. PERIOD. I congratulate Bernard for the magnificent work that has gone into Erable and > alone has done basically te same thing as two full blown companies. I congratulate Bernard too, I think HP should pay this man his weight in gold since he did save HP's ass by developing Erable. I am serious here !!! (Oh let's not forget the Alg48 folks). . ==== Subject: Re: The dreaded TI and Integration > This is pure crap... There are nicer ways to say tough things. > As if a professional team will always do a better job than some passionate > people ! I fully agree with you in this point,: the genius does not have to work in team to be the best. Some free programs, as the fabulous Erable, are just out of this world, and that has nothing to do with the fact that they were made by one man alone. > Derive is one of the poorest CAS on the market and simply can't compare > against some tools like Mupad, Maple, Mathematica. Actually, MapleV R4 limit function fails in a command in which TI's Derive works fine. So we'd rather don't generalize at these things. I want to congratulate Bernard Parisse, too, for his great job: he've made the very best HP software ever made by a mortal. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: The dreaded TI and Integration >Congratulation Bernard, your CAS is the best piece I work I've seen ever. >Jean-Yves I agree, of course... .88+ ____________________________________________________________________ ==== Subject: Re: The dreaded TI and Integration Congratulation Bernard, your CAS is the best piece I work I've seen ever. Jean-Yves > I agree, of course... > .88+ > > ____________________________________________________________________ > HP48 E-zine, le premier magazine .8electronique des passionn.8es de HP48 > L'info HP48, mise .88 jour quotidienne http://hp48ezine.tsx.org > _____________________________________________________________________ Yeah, but it still fails to integrate many very simple functions. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: The dreaded TI and Integration >>Congratulation Bernard, your CAS is the best piece I work I've seen ever. >>Jean-Yves >I agree, of course... >.88+ > >____________________________________________________________________ >HP48 E-zine, le premier magazine .8electronique des passionn.8es de HP48 >L'info HP48, mise .88 jour quotidienne http://hp48ezine.tsx.org >_____________________________________________________________________ Yeah, but it still fails to integrate many very simple functions. > You seem to forget that the TI89/92+ also fails on many simple function. I use the TI92 series for a long time and i don't find them so powerful. For integrations try to find the anti-derivative of the derivative of sin(x)/sin(x+1) with a TI89/TI92+ and you will have a funny answer. Also the TI92+ fails on numerous example of this type: d(f(x),x)*g(x)+d(g(x),x)*f(x) (antiderivative:f(x)*g(x)) d(f(x),x)/g(x)-d(g(x),x)*f(x)/g(x)^2 (antiderivative:f(x)/g(x)). Note that the famous (2*x+1)*exp(x^2+x) that the TI92 series can't integrate is just the derivative of exp(x)*exp(x^2). http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: The dreaded TI and Integration >There are two major camps of CAS : The big ones and the small ones. >The major distinction here is that small ones can run on small, memory >constrained devices like Calculators and HandHelds. >You are absolutely correct to say that Derive is not as powerful as >any of the top big ones but Derive IS the best small CAS currently >available. It's kind of hard for me to say this specially considering >that I develop a small CAS called Formulae 1. Hmm, maths are not only integration-solve.... .88+ ____________________________________________________________________ ==== Subject: Re: The dreaded TI and Integration > This is pure crap... Congratulations - considering the number of posts that agree with my position, you've just managed to insult a lot of people. >Derive is one of the poorest CAS on the market and simply can't compare > against some tools like Mupad, Maple, Mathematica. This is true, but it is only one out of two I know of that will fit into a calculator. > I think that you should stop writting this kind of message. Over the last 6 > months, all the messages you've written here can be resume simply by: - The TI89 is much better than any HP48 > - I will be very happy when HP will release a calculator that will beat TI. I will be most happy to comply with your request - indeed, I will retreat into reclusive silence - all you have to do is produce the new HP that can compete in the current market. Are you up to the challenge? http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: The dreaded TI and Integration > This is pure crap... Congratulations - considering the number of posts that agree with my > position, you've just managed to insult a lot of people. >Derive is one of the poorest CAS on the market and simply can't compare >against some tools like Mupad, Maple, Mathematica. This is true, but it is only one out of two I know of that will fit into a > calculator. > I think that you should stop writting this kind of message. Over the last 6 >months, all the messages you've written here can be resume simply by: - The TI89 is much better than any HP48 >- I will be very happy when HP will release a calculator that will beat TI. I will be most happy to comply with your request - indeed, I will retreat > into reclusive silence - all you have to do is produce the new HP that can > compete in the current market. Are you up to the challenge? http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own I completely agree with Jean Yves-Avenard if you want to put out abunch of crap about your cheap TI then do it on TI's newsgroup. farly superior calculator, and not talking about the TI. ==== Subject: Re: The dreaded TI and Integration >...This is pure crap... > I completely agree with Jean Yves-Avenard if you want to put out abunch of crap > about your cheap TI then do it on TI's newsgroup. about a > farly superior calculator, and not talking about the TI. You completely misunderstand me. I am a diehard HP user. The only reason I discuss these issues is because I'm sick of HP losing to TI in the symbolic computation department. The HP48 is the overall superior machine compared to any TI, but not at symbolic manipulation. If HP users don't have the guts to look at the cold objective facts, then they deserve to have a second class machine. I want HP to be number one at everything! The HP48 needs a heavy duty, sweeping overhaul and upgrade if it is to compete with TI. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: The dreaded TI and Integration > You completely misunderstand me. I am a diehard HP user. The only reason I > discuss these issues is because I'm sick of HP losing to TI in the symbolic > computation department. The HP48 is the overall superior machine compared to > any TI, but not at symbolic manipulation. If HP users don't have the guts to > look at the cold objective facts, then they deserve to have a second class > machine. I want HP to be number one at everything! The HP48 needs a heavy > duty, sweeping overhaul and upgrade if it is to compete with TI. > We will soon know is the new HP is better than the TI89(It seems that it will be announced in May). By the way i use TI92 since October 95,TI92II since january 97 and TI92+ since july 98 and i don't think that TI has done such a good work. The TI89/92+ has tons of functionnalities and is quite strong for symbolic computations but it has too much bugs,problems and weaknesses ! I wonder if the TI guys are too lazy to have produced a better tool or if they are poor programmers. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: The dreaded TI and Integration > > ...This is pure crap... > I completely agree with Jean Yves-Avenard if you want to put out abunch of > crap >about your cheap TI then do it on TI's newsgroup. > about a >farly superior calculator, and not talking about the TI. You completely misunderstand me. I am a diehard HP user. The only reason I > discuss these issues is because I'm sick of HP losing to TI in the symbolic > computation department. The HP48 is the overall superior machine compared to > any TI, but not at symbolic manipulation. If HP users don't have the guts to > look at the cold objective facts, then they deserve to have a second class > machine. I want HP to be number one at everything! The HP48 needs a heavy > duty, sweeping overhaul and upgrade if it is to compete with TI. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own You completely misunderstand me. I am a diehard HP user. The only reason I discuss these issues is because I'm sick of HP losing to TI in the symbolic computation department. The HP48 is the overall superior machine compared to any TI, but not at symbolic manipulation. If HP users don't have the guts to look at the cold objective facts, then they deserve to have a second class machine. I want HP to be number one at everything! The HP48 needs a heavy duty, sweeping overhaul and upgrade if it is to compete with TI. If you are truly a diehard HP user you would know that HP doesn't put out calculators once a year. If youv'e also been the diehard user that I have been you would know that. I have been buying HP's since the late 70's beginning with 32E. When HP is ready to put out a new version whatever that may be it will be far more superior to any TI or any other calculator on the market. The 48 held the reign for years but TI put out something new that right now is superior in computing power. When HP puts out a new one it will hold the title for another ten years, like the HP41C,CV,CX did. I'm talking about an HP and as far as calculators go it is far more superior in many ways other computing power right now. When you buy a TI you buy a new one every two years. When you buy an HP you buy for a lifetime with proper care and maintenance. P.S. I look at the HP's as more than just calculators. They are one rigidly built and designed on the market. There is much more to a calculator than just its computing power. I personally would hate to drop my new TI89 in the event that it broke, because I think they put a lot of money into computing power, but again they are just cheap peices of plastic. (If I had a TI89, which I wouldn't own because they are so cheap.) ==== Subject: Re: The dreaded TI and Integration It's 1999. Not 1986. In 1986 the HP was superior to the TI calculators. Throughout the 1990's it's superiority continued. However, in 1998, Texas Instruments came out with the TI89, a calculator that absolutely destroys an unmodified HP48 and (dare I say) is better than a souped-up HP48 from a student's point of view (based on the integration and differential equation capabilities) Yes, the HP is a superior calculator. It is more customizable, it is far more programable, and (basically) it has a more intelligent user base. However, it is 1999. To say that the HP is superior because it is 13 years old and the TI is only 1 is preposterous. That's no defense. The fact that the HP48 is 13 years old makes me wonder....What has HP been doing for the past 13 years? Jeremy P.S. Do not mistake my argument for a lack of faith in HP or a lack of respect for the geniuses who have written programs for the HP. It's simply a logical fallacy to argue that age brings superiority. ==== Subject: Re: The dreaded TI and Integration > It's 1999. Not 1986. In 1986 the HP was superior to the TI calculators. > Throughout the 1990's it's superiority continued. However, in 1998, Texas > Instruments came out with the TI89, a calculator that absolutely destroys an > unmodified HP48 and (dare I say) is better than a souped-up HP48 from a > student's point of view (based on the integration and differential equation > capabilities) Yes, the HP is a superior calculator. It is more customizable, > it is far more programable, and (basically) it has a more intelligent user > base. However, it is 1999. To say that the HP is superior because it is 13 > years old and the TI is only 1 is preposterous. That's no defense. The fact > that the HP48 is 13 years old makes me wonder....What has HP been doing for the > past 13 years? Jeremy P.S. Do not mistake my argument for a lack of faith in HP or a lack of respect > for the geniuses who have written programs for the HP. It's simply a logical > fallacy to argue that age brings superiority. Once, again, Jeremy, you are right on target. For all those in the HP community who think merely stating the facts is insulting need a dose of cold, objective reality: TI has overtaken HP, especially in the symbolic manipulation department. If HP is going to compete in the calculator market, it must produce a machine than can equal or beat the TI-89. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: The dreaded TI and Integration > It's 1999. Not 1986. In 1986 the HP was superior to the TI calculators. >Throughout the 1990's it's superiority continued. However, in 1998, Texas >Instruments came out with the TI89, a calculator that absolutely destroys an >unmodified HP48 and (dare I say) is better than a souped-up HP48 from a >student's point of view (based on the integration and differential equation >capabilities) Yes, the HP is a superior calculator. It is more customizable, >it is far more programable, and (basically) it has a more intelligent user >base. However, it is 1999. To say that the HP is superior because it is 13 >years old and the TI is only 1 is preposterous. That's no defense. The fact >that the HP48 is 13 years old makes me wonder....What has HP been doing for > the >past 13 years? Jeremy P.S. Do not mistake my argument for a lack of faith in HP or a lack of > respect >for the geniuses who have written programs for the HP. It's simply a logical >fallacy to argue that age brings superiority. Once, again, Jeremy, you are right on target. For all those in the HP > community who think merely stating the facts is insulting need a dose of > cold, objective reality: TI has overtaken HP, especially in the symbolic > manipulation department. If HP is going to compete in the calculator > market, it must produce a machine than can equal or beat the TI-89. And I believe they are doing exactly that !!! Notice that all my symbolic math pointing outs are aimed directly at HP to make sure they don't miss anything. . ==== Subject: Sito Hp48 in italiano a tutti, finalmente ho aggiunto alla mia home page una sezione interamente dedicata alla caclcolatrice hp48. Per ora vi si possono trovare quattro sezioni: 1) SOFTWARE contiene i programmini che io ho scritto. 2) RECENSIONI contiene brevi recensioni di alcuni programmi che io ritengo utili; in futuro, tempo permettendo, queste recensioni diventeranno piu` dettagliate. 3) DRITTE contiene alcuni consigli utili. 4) INFO contiene tutti le indicazioni e gli strumenti per poter trovare qualsiasi tipo di informazione sulla calcolatrice hp48. Sono inclusi motori di ricerca. Consiglio caldamente a tutti di leggerla almeno una volta. Ora la cosa piu` importante, l'indirizzo e` http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2150/hp48/indice.html oppure semplicemente http://fast.to/hp48 http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: Sito Hp48 in italiano ! Se vorrei poi fare anche un mirror in xoom interamente dedicata alla caclcolatrice hp48. Per ora vi si possono trovare quattro sezioni: 1) SOFTWARE contiene i programmini che io ho scritto. 2) RECENSIONI contiene brevi recensioni di alcuni programmi che io ritengo > utili; in futuro, tempo permettendo, queste recensioni diventeranno piu` > dettagliate. 3) DRITTE contiene alcuni consigli utili. 4) INFO contiene tutti le indicazioni e gli strumenti per poter trovare > qualsiasi tipo di informazione sulla calcolatrice hp48. Sono inclusi > motori di ricerca. Consiglio caldamente a tutti di leggerla almeno una > volta. Ora la cosa piu` importante, l'indirizzo e` http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2150/hp48/indice.html oppure semplicemente http://fast.to/hp48 http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own > Marangon HP48 for beginners! http://www.geocities.com/~hpfb http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Unofficial Emu48 update X A new unofficial update (Service Pack 10) of Emu48 is available at http://privat.swol.de/ChristophGiesselink/ for download. It based on the original Emu48 V1.0 and solve several problems and add many new features. Changes to SP9: - fixed a big emulation bug and some minor fixes - data from disassembler can be copied to clipboard now - added second command line parameter to load a port2 file - detection if port2 file has changed since last start - additional/changed display contrast procedure - fixed some bugs in the KML script error handler (crashed Emu48 on KML script errors) If Emu48 crashed on your Computer at startup, try this version with displaying the KML complilation results (default, if you start Emu48 for the first time or change it in the settings dialog). You may have a syntax error in your KML script or a KML include file is missing. It's also an updated KML script document KML20R02.ZIP available. Christoph Gie§elink, cgiess@swol.de http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: fft/ dft with HP48G > I need to compute the dft (discrete fourier transform) on my hp48g. Is > there any built in function for this, or can I set up the symbolic > equation to perform my computations. X(k) = SUM(n=0, N-1, x(n)*exp(-j*2*pi*k/N)) , x(n) = {n0, n1, n2, ..., nN} I use my HP very rarely so I would appreciate any help. You can calculate the FFT using MTH NXT [FFT] - XXX denoting a 'hard' key [XXX] meaning a 'soft' key (the six ones in the menu line) The FFT command needs a 2^n * 2^m matrix as input and leaves you with a complex matrix. That's it. :-) Happy FFTing, have a nice weekend & last but not least: Hej d.8c! Stephan -- Stephan Kaemper Mail: skaemper@physik.uni-bremen.de Universitaet Bremen / FB 1 Tel.: (49) 421 / 218-2931 Abt. Tracer-Ozeanographie Fax.: (49) 421 / 218-7018 Postfach 330440 _____|____|____|______ --------- /--------- ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^ ^^ ^^^^ ^^^ ==== Subject: Re: help on cheating ;)) > We are coming to the point where computers can handle the minor > calculations, the tedium of everyday things. Sure, basic expertise is > required. I still can integrate by hand for sure, and solve related rate > problems by hand, but why tell me that I must do it without a tool that I will > be able to use throughout my lifetime? To do so would deny me that preparation > for life after education. It would be like saying that I must be a master of > Horseback riding before I can get my driver's license. I agree with you in some sense. But in my opinion you should be able to do calculations by yourself, at least to a certain extend. Of course it would be quite silly to try to solve the most complex problems only with pen & paper - especially the numerical ones. But you simply need to judge the computatoinal results in one way or another. And how will you do it if not with your very own skills in math?! In usual exams - as I know (and passed) them - it's not neccessary to set up any complex numerical work, or to solve too problematic integrals or whatever. And kind of 'numerical skill exam' might be sort of a homework like a 10 page report including a discission with the teacher. Something like that. > If the ultimate goal of education is to prepare students for life, it is > backwards to deny them the tools they will be using for the rest of their > lives. Right again! But as I mentioned above, I think these are two rather different things: a. Learning the 'basic' math methods of solving (differential, linear or what ever appropriate) equations b. Learning to use the appropriate tools (be it a HP, TI or even a Cray) - preferably effective and correct. :-) IMO both is essential today as, I already said it above, any results produced by a calc or (super) computer needs to be checked somehow. -- Stephan Kaemper Mail: skaemper@physik.uni-bremen.de _____|____|____|______ --------- /--------- ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^ ^^ ^^^^ ^^^ ==== Subject: Re: help on cheating ;)) , Fell right into that one... I guess it's obvious I didn't pick up the humor or read the interesting piece of code. In my own defence, the subjects I am studing allow the use of the HP48GX without restriction. We translate this to mean that it will be of no use. However, in future I'll be reading your posts with a particular attention to their detail before I reply... Shayne. ==== Subject: Re: help on cheating ;)) I must agree. You have to understand the subject in order to input the data. Use the tools, that's what they're there for. Are we to use pencil drafting instead of AutoCAD? Are we to use scaling rulers? Technology, embrace it and grow or plateau and stagnate. 2 cents > Riding a horse was a necessary skill in the nineteenth century. When the > twentieth century rolled around, however, with its new fangled horseless > carriages, do you think Henry Ford required all his employees to be able to > ride a horse well? Do you think that in order to sell his product, he showed > his potential customers how well he could control his steed? I doubt it. He > showed people what a quality product his car was. > We are coming to the point where computers can handle the minor > calculations, the tedium of everyday things. Sure, basic expertise is > required. I still can integrate by hand for sure, and solve related rate > problems by hand, but why tell me that I must do it without a tool that I will > be able to use throughout my lifetime? To do so would deny me that preparation > for life after education. It would be like saying that I must be a master of > Horseback riding before I can get my driver's license. > If the ultimate goal of education is to prepare students for life, it is > backwards to deny them the tools they will be using for the rest of their > lives. Jeremy -- ==== Subject: Re: help on cheating ;)) > I must agree. You have to understand the subject in order to input the data. Use > the tools, that's what they're there for. Are we to use pencil drafting instead of > AutoCAD? Are we to use scaling rulers? Technology, embrace it and grow or plateau > and stagnate. > 2 cents > > I think the point is being missed here... When you are in school, you are there to learn (hopefully). Learning the principals is every bit as important as learning how to use the tools. Things that are taught in a calculus course help you learn to think and also help you to learn to identify and solve problems. I use my HP48 to check my work in class. If my brain and my HP48 concur, then I know I have done the problem right. If not, I know that I've made an error. In short, I use my HP48 as a tool to verify my work, not as a crutch. -- . ==== Subject: Re: help on cheating ;)) Unfortunately I think this is getting off point... I too (quite often) check my work with my hp... But this _specifically_ asks for a utility to give him an unfair advantage. That is to have more information and tools than his fellow students. That's why it's called cheating, not checking... :) jfisch : I think the point is being missed here... When you are in school, you are there to : learn (hopefully). Learning the principals is every bit as important as learning how : to use the tools. Things that are taught in a calculus course help you learn to think : and also help you to learn to identify and solve problems. I use my HP48 to check my : work in class. If my brain and my HP48 concur, then I know I have done the problem : right. If not, I know that I've made an error. In short, I use my HP48 as a tool to : verify my work, not as a crutch. : -- : . -- ---------------------- ---------------------- ==== Subject: Re: help on cheating ;)) <19990312010224.25053.00001006@ng-cf1.aol.com> <36E9C879.4DB3FF41@mb.sympatico.ca> <36EDD49F.AD59F4EC@utdallas.edu> <36ed6a9d.0@news.cc.umr.edu > Unfortunately I think this is getting off point... I too (quite often) > check my work with my hp... But this _specifically_ asks for a utility to give him an unfair > advantage. That is to have more information and tools than his fellow > students. That's why it's called cheating, not checking... But as has been said before, you don't know what he needed those programs and variables for. For example: In my 11th-grade physics class this year, the teacher allows us to write formulas and constants on an index card which may be used on the test. I agree with this practice, because in real life you probably don't need to know that the charge on an electron is 1.6e-16 C. You need to understand the principles behind electricity, but you can always look up the formula and the constant when you need it. Sometimes I forget to make a formula card before I take a physics test. When I do, the my HP48's equation library and constants library often make an adequate substitute. Is this cheating ? No, because I'm not gaining any advantage over my classmates, who all have cards, and many of whom probably store the formulas on their TI-83s anyway. I'm using my calculator to overcome a _disadvantage_ that I would otherwise suffer. -- ==== Subject: Re: help on cheating ;)) Distribution: world According to Wallace : learn (hopefully). Learning the principals is every bit as important as > learning how > to use the tools. Things that are taught in a calculus course help you > learn to think > and also help you to learn to identify and solve problems. I use my HP48 > to check my > work in class. If my brain and my HP48 concur, then I know I have done > the problem > right. If not, I know that I've made an error. In short, I use my HP48 > as a tool to > verify my work, not as a crutch. -- > . > It is also important to remember that the real problems one finds in the outside world require a ton of intuitive thought before any calculator would be of the least helpful. By the time you're pushing buttons, you've already localized the answer, and you're just locking it down with the calc. Take for instance the Erable vs TI thread. Here we have a bunch of people complaining that their calculator won't pull certain nasty integrals for them. There will *always* be a time the calc can't help you, or worse it may be wrong ( remember the early Pentium? ). Study, learn the material, *then* play with the toys. -- Christopher S. Fortin (Ph.D. EE, MS Phy) Hacking's just another word cfortin@bbn.com users.ids.net/~fortin for nothing left to kludge. You know you're a Unix guy when your dreams start with #!/bin/sh. Oh My God! They Killed init(8)! You Bastards! ---parared ==== Subject: Re: help on cheating ;)) Replying by e-mail and by post to comp.sys.hp48 Riding a horse was a necessary skill in the nineteenth century. When the > twentieth century rolled around, however, with its new fangled horseless > carriages, do you think Henry Ford required all his employees to be able to > ride a horse well? Do you think that in order to sell his product, he showed > his potential customers how well he could control his steed? I doubt it. He > showed people what a quality product his car was. > We are coming to the point where computers can handle the minor > calculations, the tedium of everyday things. Sure, basic expertise is > required. I still can integrate by hand for sure, and solve related rate > problems by hand, but why tell me that I must do it without a tool that I will > be able to use throughout my lifetime? To do so would deny me that preparation > for life after education. It would be like saying that I must be a master of > Horseback riding before I can get my driver's license. > If the ultimate goal of education is to prepare students for life, it is > backwards to deny them the tools they will be using for the rest of their > lives. Jeremy I certainly appreciate your sentiments. However, I do disagree as it relates to this topic. I believe this is less like Ford requiring employees to know horsemanship, and more like a track and field coach requiring his long distance runners to get off of their bicycles during daily practices. The question is how the various training techniques enhance the strengths of the participants. There is a time for Driver's Ed and a time for wind sprints. And speed or higher technology is not the summary deciding factor. My experience is that invention is rarely a result of computational prowesss, but more often the result of personal insight. That insight often comes doing things by hand, rather than letting a box think for you. There is a ba here - the mundane tasks can be shuffled of to a calculator. Since I was referring to a discussion of very advanced math porinciples, I hardly classify these tasks as mundane. . ----- I don't speak for HP when I post here. ==== Subject: Re: help on cheating ;)) > There have been several responses in this thread that leave me > deeply concerned. It appears that some HP48 users believe their > advanced libraries are necessary for achieving parity with other > calculator owners on tests. If this is true, I am apalled with > the state of education on this planet. The suggestion is that teachers give exams, and presume that you > have a calculator with certain advanced capabilities. What > kind of monster have we created, Dr. Frankenstein? The > advanced calculator was supposed to have been a tool for work, > and a springboard for learning. Is it becoming a crutch, replacing > basic understanding? Banish such gods of absurd myopia! If instructors are writing tests that do not asess the student's > understanding of the course principles, we ought to rethink some > current trends. Or soundly thwack a few inept teachers. In my high-school calculus course, we weren't even allowed to use > four-banger (+ - * / ) calculators. The teacher wanted us to > sharpen our math skills in ways we culd not do with that machine > at our fingertips. In my college, most professors did examples at the board using > parameters supplied by students, and then doing the math in their > heads. These professors were amazing and inspiring to watch as they > lectured. They would make a calculation in their heads, and students > in the room would verify their work with calculators. But the clear > example was that an educated man or woman can develop a math sense > that gets answers on their own, and uses the calculator only for > very complex calculations or to achieve high accuracy in a shorter > time. I think you've got reason in what you state here, but I must disagree in one point: When I was at school I had to make all my mathematical operations with no calculator at all (can you believe it?) and I must admit that it was really hard (to have to look up all the trigonometric functions and logarithms in manuals and to perform all the operations without electronic help). I'm not saying that we should give an HP to every child instead of teaching him to make sums, but my opinion is that once you've got all the necesary knowledges to do in by yourself the calculators is just a simple aide-de-camp. Best wishes- :) . http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: help on cheating ;)) : Riding a horse was a necessary skill in the nineteenth century. When the : twentieth century rolled around, however, with its new fangled horseless : carriages, do you think Henry Ford required all his employees to be able to : ride a horse well? Do you think that in order to sell his product, he showed : his potential customers how well he could control his steed? I doubt it. He : showed people what a quality product his car was. : We are coming to the point where computers can handle the minor : calculations, the tedium of everyday things. Sure, basic expertise is : required. I still can integrate by hand for sure, and solve related rate : problems by hand, but why tell me that I must do it without a tool that I will : be able to use throughout my lifetime? To do so would deny me that preparation : for life after education. It would be like saying that I must be a master of : Horseback riding before I can get my driver's license. : If the ultimate goal of education is to prepare students for life, it is : backwards to deny them the tools they will be using for the rest of their : lives. : Jeremy just one small problem...... where are we gonna find anyone who can add 2+2 so that future calculators actually work right? slight exageration, BUT, math is based on previous math, unlike driving which doesnt require even knowing what a horse is. -- -- Mark Duguid Saskatoon, Saskatchewan highbit@home.com Timesharing: An access method whereby one computer abuses many people ==== Subject: Re: help on cheating ;)) A problem with this reasoning is that you are now forced to assume that the computers are doing things humans are intellectually incapable of, which is incorrect, a human can do any computation that calculator or computer can do, it would just take a human many years to do most of the calculations... The calculator is a boon by relieve the boring and tedious work that used to be done with slide rules and enormous books of tables (can *you* compute Sin(pi/14) to twelve decimals places off the top of your head?) freeing the human calculator to do the stuff the computer cannot do easily (like deciphering exactly what those word problems mean... i.e. train A goes West at 200 MPH,train B goes south at 150 MPH, at which point does the conductor of train A use the rest room?) /Nosferatu > just one small problem...... where are we gonna find anyone who can add 2+2 so that future calculators > actually work right? slight exageration, BUT, math is based on previous > math, unlike driving which doesnt require even knowing what a horse is. -- > -- > Mark Duguid Saskatoon, Saskatchewan highbit@home.com > Timesharing: An access method whereby one computer abuses many people ==== Subject: Re: installing game after transfer > Forgive me, I am really new to graphing calculators in general and I > finally figured out how to get the tetris library file onto the calculator > in the home/tetris directory. Now what do I do with it? I don't understand > what the documentation of the game is trying to say and the user manual is > not much better. Any help would be greatly appreciated. h.a. Just put it on the stack, then delete the variable in which you've stored it, just press 0 STO and turn your calculator off and on again. You should have your game stored as a library and ready to use. Best wishes. . http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: BMP->GROB Take a look at http://over.to/hpcomm Patrick Botimer schrieb in Nachricht <8ifF2.125$i12.446@newsfeed.slurp.net>... >Does anyone know how to (or have a program) that would convert >a simple bitmap into a GROB for the 48G? ==== Subject: Re: 256 colours >Not really on HP 48 -- so must end this thread. Just some quick points. >1. >>...presumably, you'd be able to identify a wide variety of objects in real >>'meat' space, regardless of their orientation... Well, not really, even for visually sophisticated moderns. Experiments with >upside down faces show that facial expressions are misidentified on these >faces. So orientation is not factored out of meat space even in you or I. 2. There has been quite a lot of fraud in research dealing with so called >isolated tribes newly discovered -- many turn out not to be so at all! And >for reasons of politeness and deviousness the responses of these tribes are >not to be trusted either -- they may well simply be giving you the >information they think you would like to have. (Even with famous researchers >like Margaret Mead). Not so different with children really -- ask a child >Why did you choose X in some test, and the child reasons something like >(i) Why is usually used by adults to mean You'd better have a good >excuse so change the subject quickly or (ii) She's asked me that several >times so she must expect me to change my answer... etc I'm sure that's one of the possibilities but I question whether that explains everything. >3. >apparently, based on the evidence, seeing 2 dimensional imagery is a >learned >>behaviour, or acquired behaviour in the case of some genius level CroMagnon There is a kind of infinite regress in the learned behaviour argument. How >did the initial genius ever get the insight if it takes so much learning? >What would justify this genius' persistance in trying to draw when the >activity was initially meaningless? So someone would have to teach the >initial genius and who could that be but some visitor from outer space? >Reductio ad absurdum, I think. Using your logic, the human race couldn't possibly have gotten very far. How would we get fire? Who would teach the first person to light a fire? Maybe some tribes developed art and some got better at archery. I think you assume too much. >Also if the learning can take place after just a few gs at a TV then >really it is not particularly profound learning after all -- compare with >the difficulty of learning to read (takes most people at least several >months) where we really do have no genetic dispositions. What does that have to do with the subject at hand? The question was about learning to perceive not about the profundity of that learning. >Sorry to go on but there is much mindless stuff put out as scientific fact >these days... I think most of us in this newsgroup recognize that there is a lot of mindless stuff going around. I don't think we can decide out of hand that what I saw in that documentary is fraud or poor judgement. There isn't enough information. Barry ==== Subject: Re: 256 colours >>Not really on HP 48 -- so must end this thread. Just some quick points. Sorry. Was really an attempt at an apology for posting off topic rather than an instruction to you. >1. >>>...presumably, you'd be able to identify a wide variety of objects in real >>>'meat' space, regardless of their orientation... >>Well, not really, even for visually sophisticated moderns. Experiments with >>upside down faces show that facial expressions are misidentified on these >>faces. So orientation is not factored out of meat space even in you or I. >>2. There has been quite a lot of fraud in research dealing with so called >>isolated tribes newly discovered -- many turn out not to be so at all! >And >>for reasons of politeness and deviousness the responses of these tribes are >>not to be trusted either -- they may well simply be giving you the >>information they think you would like to have. (Even with famous >researchers >>like Margaret Mead). Not so different with children really -- ask a child >>Why did you choose X in some test, and the child reasons something like >>(i) Why is usually used by adults to mean You'd better have a good >>excuse so change the subject quickly or (ii) She's asked me that several >>times so she must expect me to change my answer... etc >I'm sure that's one of the possibilities but I question whether that >explains everything. ok. >3. >apparently, based on the evidence, seeing 2 dimensional imagery is a >>learned >>>behaviour, or acquired behaviour in the case of some genius level >CroMagnon >>There is a kind of infinite regress in the learned behaviour argument. How >>did the initial genius ever get the insight if it takes so much learning? >>What would justify this genius' persistance in trying to draw when the >>activity was initially meaningless? So someone would have to teach the >>initial genius and who could that be but some visitor from outer space? >>Reductio ad absurdum, I think. >Using your logic, the human race couldn't possibly have gotten very far. >How would >we get fire? Who would teach the first person to light a fire? Maybe some tribes developed art and some got better at archery. I think you >assume >too much. Fire is a kind of simple thing however complex its effects. Two dimensional representations are not simple. >Also if the learning can take place after just a few gs at a TV then >>really it is not particularly profound learning after all -- compare with >>the difficulty of learning to read (takes most people at least several >>months) where we really do have no genetic dispositions. >What does that have to do with the subject at hand? The question was about >learning >to perceive not about the profundity of that learning. Ah, there I disagree. If one really couldn't see two dimensional representations and you could then teach me, that in my book WOULD be profound learning. Since representations in two dimensions are a kind of thinking 9think of plotting graphs etc) you would, in a way, be giving me a mind. Wow! >Sorry to go on but there is much mindless stuff put out as scientific fact >>these days... >I think most of us in this newsgroup recognize that there is a lot of >mindless stuff going around. >I don't think we can decide out of hand that what I saw in that documentary >is fraud or poor >judgement. There isn't enough information. Well, I agree. But being a Kantian in outlook I'm profoundly sceptical too. Barry > ==== Subject: Re: 256 colours >>Using your logic, the human race couldn't possibly have gotten very far. >>How would >>we get fire? Who would teach the first person to light a fire? >>Maybe some tribes developed art and some got better at archery. I think >you >>assume >>too much. Fire is a kind of simple thing however complex its effects. Two dimensional >representations are not simple. There are several steps involved in making and using fire. I don't think it's such a simple thing at all. It just occurred to me that cloud gazing might have been an incentive to draw. >>>Also if the learning can take place after just a few gs at a TV then >>>really it is not particularly profound learning after all -- compare with >>>the difficulty of learning to read (takes most people at least several >>>months) where we really do have no genetic dispositions. >>What does that have to do with the subject at hand? The question was about >>learning >>to perceive not about the profundity of that learning. Ah, there I disagree. If one really couldn't see two dimensional >representations and you could then teach me, that in my book WOULD be >profound learning. Since representations in two dimensions are a kind of >thinking 9think of plotting graphs etc) you would, in a way, be giving me a >mind. Wow! Making an image move adds a tremendous amount of information. Think of a smiling but static face in a picture. Then think of watching that face move into a smile. I think the latter would be irresistable. I think this is entirely plausable. Barry ==== Subject: Re: 256 colours suggests: There is a kind of infinite regress in the learned behaviour argument. How did the initial genius ever get the insight if it takes so much learning? What would justify this genius' persistance in trying to draw when the activity was initially meaningless? So someone would have to teach the initial genius and who could that be but some visitor from outer space? Reductio ad absurdum, I think -----------------------:: o actaully, i was thinking during the interm, that the ancient astronauts scenario might well be a viable solution... there does seem to be a surprising absence of 'crude' or 'primative' cave drawings...??? but aside from that...i would think that the initial insight would come from a genious CroM- sitting idylly one afternoon at the beach, stick in hand, or watching a child with stick in hand, making random markings in the sand, and thinking, with a burst of insight, 'say...that looks sort of like 'Og' or 'An Antelope' or 'That mountian over there'... and the seed will have been planted. ----------- :: o ==== Subject: Re: 256 colours > suggests: >There is a kind of infinite regress in the learned behaviour argument. How >did the initial genius ever get the insight if it takes so much learning? >What would justify this genius' persistance in trying to draw when the >activity was initially meaningless? So someone would have to teach the >initial genius and who could that be but some visitor from outer space? >Reductio ad absurdum, I think >-----------------------:: o >actaully, i was thinking during the interm, that the ancient astronauts >scenario might well be a viable solution... >there does seem to be a surprising absence of 'crude' or 'primative' cave >drawings...??? but aside from that...i would think that the initial insight would come from a >genious CroM- sitting idylly one afternoon at the beach, stick in hand, or >watching a child with stick in hand, making random markings in the sand, and >thinking, with a burst of insight, 'say...that looks sort of like 'Og' or 'An >Antelope' or 'That mountian over there'... and the seed will have been planted. Well, the key in your picture (see two dimensions = a kind of thinking) is the word 'genius'. Cats will make marks on a wall and elephants and chimps will too. But (so far) not one has had the genius to draw a two dimensional rendering of the world. But humans do so naturally -- there are even idiot savants who can't tie their shoe laces or speak yet can make perfect (if stiff) renderings... So the genius, if genius it is, is human, and I think the capacity for such perception and such renderings is built into our brains. Sure most art traditions have a kind of grammar (e.g., the profile appearance of ancient Egyptian drawings) and that surely must be learned... ==== Subject: Re: 256 colours continues: there are even idiot savants who can't tie their shoe laces or speak yet can make perfect (if stiff) renderings... So the genius, if genius it is, is human, and I think the capacity for such perception and such renderings is built into our brains. --------------:: o this sounds perfectly reasonable, sort of...??? ...the last time i checked, CroM-'s are humans--they're considered HomoSapiens, and the Europeans that so designated them that, decided to make a small effort to appease, perhaps, some of their personal religious friends by referring to 'modern' humans as Homo SapiensSapiens...(?) !!! Second: i think it's somewhat demeaning to qualify the work of MonoSavants, that are generally considered artists, as rendering 'stiff' drawings, if only to reduce their ability below that of your own children. Then: i've often thought that What our brains, perhaps even yours, DO...is interpret patterns. that's all that brains do. ( even motor functions & memory are derivitive of this ) there are specialized areas for visual and auditory data, but the seedling programming is heavily biased to interpreting patterns. so it may be that drawing is somehow 'built-in' to our brains, as is the ability to use language, and make sense of sensory material...but the only distinction that i think should somehow be tested for, is whether or not this particular ability is hard-wired Or; if the brain simply allows it to emerge effortlessly...??? it might be some sort of artifact/bug, rather than a feature. ??? ----------- :: o ==== Subject: Re: 256 colours > continues: >there are even idiot >savants who can't tie their shoe laces or speak yet can make perfect (if >stiff) renderings... So the genius, if genius it is, is human, and I think >the capacity for such perception and such renderings is built into our >brains. >--------------:: o >this sounds perfectly reasonable, sort of...??? >...the last time i checked, CroM-'s are humans--they're considered HomoSapiens, >and the Europeans that so designated them that, decided to make a small effort >to appease, perhaps, some of their personal religious friends by referring to >'modern' humans as Homo SapiensSapiens...(?) !!! >Second: i think it's somewhat demeaning to qualify the work of MonoSavants, >that are generally considered artists, as rendering 'stiff' drawings, if only >to reduce their ability below that of your own children. Actually I also think that M C Escher's drawings are stiff though I would certainly rate him highly as an artist and with far higher abilities than my children. Stiffness relates to the emotional content of a drawing. But see the discussion of autistic drawings in Ellen Winner *Gifted Children* (Basic Books, 1996). >Then: i've often thought that What our brains, perhaps even yours, DO...is >interpret patterns. >that's all that brains do. ( even motor functions & memory are derivitive of >this ) >there are specialized areas for visual and auditory data, but the seedling >programming is heavily biased to interpreting patterns. >so it may be that drawing is somehow 'built-in' to our brains, as is the >ability to use language, and make sense of sensory material...but the only >distinction that i think should somehow be tested for, is whether or not this >particular ability is hard-wired >Or; if the brain simply allows it to emerge effortlessly...??? >it might be some sort of artifact/bug, rather than a feature. >??? I don't know if any program on any computer can do this, but drawings reveal more than pattern matching. Even the drawings of idiot savants, but any human drawings for that matter, can be shown to be conceptual. Objects are depicted not like a camera but through an understanding of what they are. For example, both savants and ordinary children are better able to reproduce from memory a representational picture than a scrambled picture. A drawing of a pear and a harp having the same 'shape' are grouped differently by both groups of children. Both drawing pictures and interpreting pictures depends on our representation of the world, and that depends on the concepts we have in our heads. Concepts are more than pattern matching though exactly what that 'more' is, is difficult to say... This is what I mean when I say that drawing is a representational system, like language. What might be hard wired in the brain is the capacity for representation... ==== Subject: Re: 256 colours continues: there are even idiot savants who can't tie their shoe laces or speak yet can make perfect (if stiff) renderings... So the genius, if genius it is, is human, and I think the capacity for such perception and such renderings is built into our brains. --------------:: o this sounds perfectly reasonable, sort of...??? ...the last time i checked, CroM-'s are humans--they're considered > HomoSapiens, and the Europeans that so designated them that, decided to make a small > effort to appease, perhaps, some of their personal religious friends by referring > to 'modern' humans as Homo SapiensSapiens...(?) !!! Second: i think it's somewhat demeaning to qualify the work of MonoSavants, that are generally considered artists, as rendering 'stiff' drawings, if > only to reduce their ability below that of your own children. Actually I also think that M C Escher's drawings are stiff though I would > certainly rate him highly as an artist and with far higher abilities than my > children. Stiffness relates to the emotional content of a drawing. But see > the discussion of autistic drawings in Ellen Winner *Gifted Children* (Basic > Books, 1996). >Then: i've often thought that What our brains, perhaps even yours, DO...is interpret patterns. that's all that brains do. ( even motor functions & memory are derivitive > of this ) there are specialized areas for visual and auditory data, but the seedling programming is heavily biased to interpreting patterns. so it may be that drawing is somehow 'built-in' to our brains, as is the ability to use language, and make sense of sensory material...but the only distinction that i think should somehow be tested for, is whether or not > this particular ability is hard-wired Or; if the brain simply allows it to emerge effortlessly...??? it might be some sort of artifact/bug, rather than a feature. ??? I don't know if any program on any computer can do this, but drawings reveal > more than pattern matching. Even the drawings of idiot savants, but any > human drawings for that matter, can be shown to be conceptual. Objects are > depicted not like a camera but through an understanding of what they are. > For example, both savants and ordinary children are better able to reproduce > from memory a representational picture than a scrambled picture. A drawing > of a pear and a harp having the same 'shape' are grouped differently by both > groups of children. Both drawing pictures and interpreting pictures depends > on our representation of the world, and that depends on the concepts we have > in our heads. Concepts are more than pattern matching though exactly what > that 'more' is, is difficult to say... This is what I mean when I say that > drawing is a representational system, like language. What might be hard > wired in the brain is the capacity for representation... > I don't know if any program on any computer can do this, but drawings reveal more than pattern matching. Even the drawings of idiot savants, but any human drawings for that matter, can be shown to be conceptual. Objects are depicted not like a camera but through an understanding of what they are. For example, both savants and ordinary children are better able to reproduce from memory a representational picture than a scrambled picture. A drawing of a pear and a harp having the same 'shape' are grouped differently by both groups of children. Both drawing pictures and interpreting pictures depends on our representation of the world, and that depends on the concepts we have in our heads. Concepts are more than pattern matching though exactly what that 'more' is, is difficult to say... This is what I mean when I say that drawing is a representational system, like language. What might be hard wired in the brain is the capacity for representation... I happen to think you are a total idiot. You speak as though you are some kind high class jerk who can go around demeaning people. You, I, and everybody on this planet is a human being. Many think like you (high class jerks.) Many more people accept people for who and what they are without the need to demean people for who or what they are. What, doesn't your stink like everybody else's, or perhaps it smells like roses. ??? ==== Subject: Re: 256 colours >I happen to think you are a total idiot. You speak as though you are some kind >high class jerk who can go around demeaning people. You, I, and everybody on >this planet is a human being. Many think like you (high class jerks.) Many more >people accept people for who and what they are without the need to demean people >for who or what they are. What, doesn't your stink like everybody else's, >or perhaps it smells like roses. > I don't think I demeaned anyone. Idiot savants are people with exceptional talents but also great social disabilities. When trying to understand the mind and its abilities they are often discussed precisely because they show the range of possibilities in the human condition. That they have been labeled in particular ways -- and ways that I used -- is of course a way of concealing individual differences and continuities. I know this, perhaps better than you. My purpose wasn't, however, to understand this medical/psychological condition but to try to understand the nature of drawings. Perhaps you should reserve your indignation for real injustices -- like rich Western people who become indignant over imagined slights to disabled people but ignore the starving people of the third world. ==== Subject: Re: 256 colours >I happen to think you are a total idiot. You speak as though you are some > kind high class jerk who can go around demeaning people. You, I, and everybody > on this planet is a human being. Many think like you (high class jerks.) Many > more people accept people for who and what they are without the need to demean > people for who or what they are. What, doesn't your stink like everybody > else's, or perhaps it smells like roses. >I don't think I demeaned anyone. Idiot savants are people with exceptional talents but also great social disabilities. When trying to understand the mind and its abilities they are often discussed precisely because they show the range of possibilities in the human condition. That they have been labeled in particular ways -- and ways that I used -- is of course a way of concealing individual differences and continuities. I know this, perhaps better than you. My purpose wasn't, however, to understand this medical/psychological condition but to try to understand the nature of drawings. Perhaps you should reserve your indignation for real injustices -- like rich Western people who become indignant over imagined slights to disabled people but ignore the starving people of the third world. , I do happen to have a disability. My disability is not as severe as many other peoples are but being disabled I am labeled. I don't think it is appropriate for any body to put a label on people because, we are human beings. Putting a label on someone demeans the people that are labeled. The way I was brought up tells me not to label people maybe Doctors use labels to put you into a certain category, but not demean people. I take great offense to people who use labels to even refer to a certain classs of people. I think that autistic is moreappropriate than idiot savants. ==== Subject: Re: 256 colours - Now I feel really bad. I did not intend to demean anyone. I was trying to make the point that drawings are conceptual for all people -- that no one acts like a camera or simply finds edges in a pattern finding way, but everyone sees and draws objects according to their understanding of the world. If what I said hurt you or anyone else, I am really sorry and wish to apologize. >I do happen to have a disability. My disability is not as severe as many other >peoples are but being disabled I am labeled. I don't think it is appropriate >for any body to put a label on people because, we are human beings. Putting a >label on someone demeans the people that are labeled. The way I was brought up >tells me not to label people maybe Doctors use labels to put you into a certain >category, but not demean people. I take great offense to people who use labels >to even refer to a certain classs of people. I think that autistic is >moreappropriate than idiot savants. ==== Subject: Re: 256 colours - >Now I feel really bad. I did not intend to demean anyone. I was trying to make the point that drawings are conceptual for all people -- that no one acts like a camera or simply finds edges in a pattern finding way, but everyone sees and draws objects according to their understanding of the world. If what I said hurt you or anyone else, I am really sorry and wish to apologize. I do happen to have a disability. My disability is not as severe as many > other peoples are but being disabled I am labeled. I don't think it is > appropriate for any body to put a label on people because, we are human beings. Putting > a label on someone demeans the people that are labeled. The way I was brought > up tells me not to label people maybe Doctors use labels to put you into a > certain category, but not demean people. I take great offense to people who use > labels to even refer to a certain classs of people. I think that autistic is moreappropriate than idiot savants. , I appreciate and accept the apology thank you for understanding. ==== Subject: Re: Cynox cards On Tue, 9 Mar 1999 23:15:01 -0600, Barry Marks I've got a new Cynox card and it is working very well, but i've seen >>that it is very hard to change the battery, in fact I don't know how to >>change it without losing memory, because I have to do that with the card >>into the slot. How do you do it? I hadn't thought of that but it's a good point. I don't believe you can >change the battery while it's in the calc. I have a Cynox 128k card, and I can easily remove the battery while it's in the calculator and switched on - the battery is on the outside, near the end of the card. Paul ==== Subject: Re: Cynox cards <36e93abc.19749809@news.cwcom.net On Tue, 9 Mar 1999 23:15:01 -0600, Barry Marks >I hadn't thought of that but it's a good point. I don't believe you can >>change the battery while it's in the calc. I have a Cynox 128k card, and I can easily remove the battery while > it's in the calculator and switched on - the battery is on the > outside, near the end of the card. > This is one of the old cards. The new ones have a cover. CU Stefan ==== Subject: Re: Cynox cards >This is one of the old cards. The new ones have a cover. > So would it be more prudent to buy a 1 or 2 mb card without a cover? I'm buying one soon, and if having no cover is better than the cover, then by all means, I'll save the extra 10 DM Jeremy ==== Subject: Re: Cynox cards >>This is one of the old cards. The new ones have a cover. >> It does have a cover, but the battery is exposed. If anyone wants to see it, I will Email a picture... Paul So would it be more prudent to buy a 1 or 2 mb card without a cover? I'm >buying one soon, and if having no cover is better than the cover, then by all >means, I'll save the extra 10 DM Jeremy ==== Subject: Re: ram card for hp 48gx Neuve, .8d'est moins de 1000f sur le site de TDS Dino a .8ecrit dans le message <36E2FCE6.4D41@club-internet.fr>... >! >Could you tell how much cost a 512 Ko ram card? >pgdo@club-internet.fr ==== Subject: Re: 256 colours See below for thread... first of all, we're talking about an ( impossibly ) fine resolution for the pixelation display... but i was thinking ( beyoud that ) that the black and white display would show a collection of very fine 'bulls eye' like patterns on the screen, that would allow them to overlap to some degree, each bulls eye would be fine tuned to emulate a specific colour...??? and this would ( presumably ) get around the problem/requirement of a spinning/flickering display... i've been thinking...how could i test this...??? i would need something more sophisticated that a zeerox machine...??? --------:: o The screen won't be spinning, it could be flickering, too. If it's fast enough (turning off and on some very tiny pixels) one would see coulors. Johannes Barry Marks schrieb im Beitrag ... > That doesnt really apply to this situation. It requires movement. Anybody > want a spinning screen on the new one? :) Barry >> ( there is a popular kids science trick that demonstates this with a > spinning > black and white colour wheel... ) ----------- :: o ==== Subject: Re: 256 colours After thinking about this a little I like the idea of a rapidly spinning screen. I miss my kaleidiscope. Of course the screen would have to be round, but our first TV set had a round screen. (I think I just gave away my age :) It was just fine. This spinning screen could be another bragging point when comparing it with the TI calcs. When they claim their calc is faster we'll ask them if it can beat the 3600 RPM HP58. I sort of doubt it. Of course those silly TI people will soon be shipping a TI-89/2X, but HP can follow up with an HP58/4x. The calculator races will make a lot more sense at that point. Barry >See below for thread... first of all, we're talking about an ( impossibly ) fine resolution for the >pixelation display... >but i was thinking ( beyoud that ) that the black and white display would show >a collection of very fine 'bulls eye' like patterns on the screen, that would >allow them to overlap to some degree, each bulls eye would be fine tuned to >emulate a specific colour...??? and this would ( presumably ) get around the problem/requirement of a >spinning/flickering display... ==== Subject: HP 28S Reference Manual? Anyone have an extra HP 28S Reference manual for sale? I've got a copy of the User's Manual but haven't been able to locate a copy of the Reference Manual. David Betz dbetz@xlisper.mv.com ==== Subject: Re: Algebra I have followed this thread with interest. I'm a little bit disappointed over the words which sounded sometimes harsh. I hope that wasn't the aim of those posters. I personally love to use Erable and Alg48. Especially Erable saves me lots of time when it helps me to do *boring* manipulations for me. When I found that Erable gave me a *wrong* answer I soon discovered that the answer of Erable was just in a different form, or that I should choose another form of input to get the desired form of answer! In those times I have learned to understand maths better!! I also own Derive for Dos 3.14 and like to use it sometimes for some (relative easy) math stuff, which is just faster and less error prone compared to my paper_pencil_calculating with *big* equations. So I love to have this aid to find a symbolic form of some equations faster then I could do it by hand. Sure I know that Mathematica is more powerfull, but Derive for Dos needs very few resources and is still very usefull for many tasks. The same refers to Erable, which runs on a relative slow machine and does a great job to do some calculations faster then one can do it with a pencil and paper. I really love to use Derive sometimes, but most of the time I prefer just to switch on my HP48 (so great the calc doesn't have to boot!!!) and use Erable and Alg48, which is often faster then to calculate by hand or to use a *big* CAS on my PC. I also would like to use Mathematica with the great optics package, but as a student I can't afford to buy a version of Mathematica for an occasional use. For (the outdated version of) Derive I had to pay only 2.5 Euro and Bernard Parisse gives away his great piece of software for free :-) I count on Bernard Parisse :-) Peter E-Mail: karpfenteich@gmx.de _______________________________ Do you know the great Frequently Asked Questions? http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/ and the superb HP48 Software Archive? http://www.hpcalc.org to look for *old* HP48 postings see http://www.dejanews.com ==== Subject: Emu48 contrast modified KML scripts Emu48 SP10 has a new contrast ability described in the updated KML_20.DOC. I just reviewed and published my development KML scripts. Be free to tell me your opinion about the new contrast emulation. You'll find the KML samples on http://privat.swol.de/ChristophGiesselink/kmlgsp1.zip. Christoph Giesselink, cgiess@swol.de http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: Emu48 contrast modified KML scripts I must have done something wrong. I get two green rectangles on top, slightly offset, and the rest of the window is nothing. (No repaint when a window crosses it. While on the subject... Is there a way to turn off the Power off timeout, or delay it greatly when using EMU? Since it is running on PC, I see no reason to turn off the calculator. I found nothing in the manual, or browsing the flags. >Emu48 SP10 has a new contrast ability described in the updated KML_20.DOC. I >just reviewed and published my development KML scripts. Be free to tell me >your opinion about the new contrast emulation. You'll find the KML samples on >http://privat.swol.de/ChristophGiesselink/kmlgsp1.zip. Christoph Giesselink, cgiess@swol.de http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: Emu48 contrast modified KML scripts > I must have done something wrong. I get two green rectangles on top, > slightly offset, and the rest of the window is nothing. (No repaint when a > window crosses it. Do you had a look at KML_20.DOC or my samples? I think it's clear how it's working. While on the subject... Is there a way to turn off the Power off timeout, > or delay it greatly when using EMU? Since it is running on PC, I see no > reason to turn off the calculator. I found nothing in the manual, or > browsing the flags. Try to add the following line into BEEP.EXT 423BB:01 This patch modifys the internal copy of ROM to disable the turn off. But don't blame me if this doesn't work, I didn't test it so far. It was designed to fix a bug in Emu48 V1.0 that switch off the emulator after some seconds. >Emu48 SP10 has a new contrast ability described in the updated KML_20.DOC. > I just reviewed and published my development KML scripts. Be free to tell me your opinion about the new contrast emulation. You'll find the KML samples > on http://privat.swol.de/ChristophGiesselink/kmlgsp1.zip. Christoph Giesselink, cgiess@swol.de http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own Christoph http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Printing from an HP 28S Is it possible to print to an HP Laserjet 5mp from an HP 28S using the infrared printer port? ==== claim it is an Epson type for HP calculators. I will post how this works out when I receive it. The claim to have a couple hundred of them left at http://www.surplustech.com/shot.htm Good luck, Greg ==== I guess someone's a bit too used to MSDOS :-) (*.*) ==== sellers >claim it is an Epson type for HP calculators. I will post how this works out >when I receive it. The claim to have a couple hundred of them left at yup, the GRID card .... look thru dejanews for some extended discussion on the down side to it (voltage clamping, etc) - otoh, I got one a couple of months ago, and haven't had much problems with it ... a couple of pointers to REMEMBER: * always take the card out b4 a reset! (mine will bleed the LCD) * change batteries for the card at least once a year (CR2016) * don't let the 48 batteries fall low for an extended time At least that's what I've gathered - and has worked for me so far! The additional 1M on the '48 rocks! Peter Khor ==== What do you mean Bleed the LCD? Rob >sellers >>claim it is an Epson type for HP calculators. I will post how this works >out >>when I receive it. The claim to have a couple hundred of them left at >yup, the GRID card .... look thru dejanews for some extended discussion on >the down side to it (voltage clamping, etc) - otoh, I got one a couple of >months ago, and haven't had much problems with it ... a couple of pointers >to REMEMBER: * always take the card out b4 a reset! (mine will bleed the LCD) >* change batteries for the card at least once a year (CR2016) >* don't let the 48 batteries fall low for an extended time At least that's what I've gathered - and has worked for me so far! The additional 1M on the '48 rocks! Peter Khor ==== >What do you mean Bleed the LCD? > Once in a while when I get a machine reset (almost always because of my sysRPL foray), when my '48 restarts, instead of getting the customary random dot/line LCD flash on the bottom 1/3 of the screen, I get some sort of vertical line pattern (can't be sure, as it's been a long time since it's happened -> which is good, eh?) with the top portion of the LCD much darker than the bottom portion (hence my description, bleeding down) - sometimes it almost seems that I get an inordinate amount of contrast (LCD being driven hard). In such a situation, even a hard reset from the rear pin won't solve the problem - the only way is to remove the batteries or eject the card (I haven't lost any data the 1M card yet, but everything goes on Port 0 and 1 (128K card). *disclaimer* I've no evidence whatsoever that the following is the cause *disclaimer* - could it be a result of the card clamping down Vcc to ground?! corrections/enlightenment would be much appreciated! Anyways, as I'd said before, I've had the card working great in my 48 for about 6 months now ... Peter Khor ==== Sorry, that was $8.85 shipping... ==== Subject: IR hardware registers- I need precise information about HP48GX IR hardware regiters including: - #0011Ah (IRC IR Control Register?); - #0011Bh ; - #0011Ch (LCR Led Control Register?). How to use these registers to direct control IR LED? What is the precise content of each register? Merci. ==== Subject: programing How do you start to program. Where you go to start programing? ==== Subject: Re: programing >How do you start to program. Where you go to start programing? > This is a big question, like Why are we here? You have to start with something simple of course. Once you have read the User's Guide and have a basic understanding of the capabilities, you need to start with an idea that is interesting to you. Once you can solve it without a program, it is usually pretty easy to program the steps so they are done automatically. Big programs are just lots of little steps like that all put together. I wouldn't start by trying to figure out how Erable works :) Dennis ==== Subject: Re: programing Depending on what type of programming you want to do on the Hp will relate on where you find your info. But, if you are a beginner in programming, I recommend the Advance User Manual as a start, then if you get really good and want to excel even more with much more faster routines, you should get the book by Donnely called Beginner's Guide to System RPL programming. It's an excellent book and touches on subjects such as Machine Lanugage programming. Also if you have source code problems, this newsgroup will be happy to help you out. (They were very helpful when I was a beginner.) A good site to check out for routines or programming utilities is http://www.hpcalc.org/ Hope this helps some.... __________ XanthisHP EGN's Web Designer http://www.clanworld.org/egn On Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:21:06 -0800, Hailan Tonnu ==== Subject: Re: programing >How do you start to program. Where you go to start programing? > -------------------:: o are you doing ANYTHING with your 48 now...??? if so, get out a piece of paper, and start doing one of the problems that you're already familiar with. while doing the problem, write down all the key strokes. if there's some point in which you have to decide upon doing one thing or one other thing...it gets marginally complicated. if there's some point in which you have to decide to do any number of things, then surprisingly, it's sort of easier...! so anyway... write down all the steps of the problem and all the contingency steps ( in boxes, use coloured pencils! ) and now you're ready to convert that to a program. How to Write the Program: simply put program delimiters around the steps you've written down. << ( found on the Minus [-] key ) all your steps >> of course, if you want input, it should be already on the stack. or you can put in 'fixed' variables with the local variable structure... << 1 2 3 -> a b c << all your steps >> ( -> the right arrow over the [0] key ) ( you already understand the shift keys don't you...!!! ) ok, so...then...making decisions: if you're only choosing between two course of activity, AND you can formulate that decision as being either zero or not zero...then arrange for the not-zero/zero to be on the stack in position 1: 1: ~0/0 then insert the two alternatives in their own programming delimited programs... << if the result on 1: is ~0 then do this >> << if the result on 1: is 0 then do this >> IFTE then the rest of the program continues after executing one of those... IF on the other hand, you either have lots of contingencies, or you can't think of a way to reduce the choice to zero or not zero... THEN use the CASE structure: program runs for awhile -> a ( a is the deciding element...if a then do...whatever ) << CASE a 1 == THEN do a=1 conseqences END a 2 == THEN do a=2 conseqences END ...ect... END >> as you can see, the CASE structure really simplifies things...! then of course, there's all the fancy smancy stuff, such as inputing data in the middle of the program, and diplaying results as the program is running and so on... buy some books for that... examing other peoples programs can also be useful. !!! ----------- :: o ==== Subject: Re: HP48 hardcase : My solution is a plastic sheet (180mm*70mm*3mm). I put the : sheet in the softcase, in front of the calculator and the display. It is : inpossible to crash the display now. Works great and costs almost nothing. I've used a sheet of plastic in my HP48GX case since the day I bought it. The reference book of the SX does a pretty good job of protecting the case but I have the impression the GX LCD's aren't as strongly made as the SX's. Every once in a while I find myself stuffing my calculator into a duffel bag or a backpack when going somewhere. I was thinking a hard case would be nice and wondered what could be used for a replacement. I was at my sisters place getting her computer working after she 'accidentally' deleted some files. When I was finished we were sitting in the kitchen talking while she was getting ready for a Tupperware(TM) party. If you don't know Tupperware are plastic containers made for keeping foodstuffs fresh during storage and they come in a vast array of shapes and sizes. One of them looked suspiciously like it would be just about a perfect fit for an HP48 when it's in the softcase. It's wasn't a perfect fit but the HP didn't rattle around in the container so I figured it would work. Now when I need to carry my HP in a duffel I stick it in the container which keeps it pretty safe ... one nice feature I 'discovered' is that while it's in the Tupperware container it's quite waterproof too! P.S. I also noticed that it keeps my batteries fresher longer too! :-) -- ==== Subject: Re: HP48 hardcase OK, so what do I do now that the LCD is cracked? Someone gave me an HP48G with a cracked LCD display (they didn't want to deal with it). Is it worth it/possible to get it fixed? -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Douglas Cook - MCP, BYU ITC Web Programmer mailto:cookd@cs.byu.edu http://students.cs.byu.edu/~cookd/ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >Hi everyone, I started reading this newsgroup a while ago and i sometimes read about >crashes displays. Because i am not really carefull for my HP i was afraid it >would happen to me. To protect the display i tried to get a hardcase from HP >but all stores told me it exists but they couldnt order it (here in the >Netherlands). My solution is a plastic sheet (180mm*70mm*3mm). I put the >sheet in the softcase, in front of the calculator and the display. It is >inpossible to crash the display now. Works great and costs almost nothing. Iwan ==== Subject: Re: HP48 hardcase Doug- My son's48 G just suffered backpack death. I have heard that if you send it back to HP they repair it by giving you a new one for 1/2 price. I don't know the truth of the story. I bought him a new 48GX. There are hardcases available (heavy leather or a stainless steel box for the softcase). I didn't really like them too much because I thought my kid wouldn't use them so I have designed & built a protective metal sheath for my son's new 48GX. I'm thinking about selling them on the web. WRT to fixing your broken one if you search the web you can find sites on how to disassemble it for repair. They're really not designed to be disassemled but guys have posted step by step instructions how to. (not for the timid) it is possible to repair them with scavenged parts but unless this really sounds interesting I'd avoid it. There are sites where people buy, sell, trade HP calculators. I just sold a busted 32SII on one site. I sold it really cheap but you might get something for the busted 48G. New ones (w/ case & manuals) are about $90; GX's are as cheap as $180. So can't expect too much for a busted G. Rober Kazanjy (mechanical engineer) rkazanjy@uci.edu ==== Subject: Re: HP48 hardcase > = > Hi everyone, > = > I started reading this newsgroup a while ago and i sometimes read about= > crashes displays. Because i am not really carefull for my HP i was afra= id it > would happen to me. To protect the display i tried to get a hardcase fr= om HP > but all stores told me it exists but they couldnt order it (here in the= > Netherlands). My solution is a plastic sheet (180mm*70mm*3mm). I put th= e > sheet in the softcase, in front of the calculator and the display. It i= s > inpossible to crash the display now. Works great and costs almost nothi= ng. > = > Iwan I have a simple 3=BD floppydisc inside the calculator case, to protect th= e screen. ==== Subject: Kermit and grobs Need info about: How the grob files works? i mean i see GROB 130 64 001F000010111100.... But how does that code works? and other cuestion How work Kermit Im tryinig to make a VB program that can transfer files and make grobs in PC thank yo so much plese email me http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: Kermit and grobs OK, let's see.... A Grob always has this structure (in ASCII-mode): GROB x y hhhhhh..... This means it is a GROB with x as the width and y as the height (in pixel). What follows is the data part with Hex-values: One HEX-digit gives you information about 4 pixels, but the MSB is the 4th from the left, the LSB is the first on the left. Every pixel which is on has got the binary-value one. Every pixel row must have an even number of 4bit blocks (this is one hex-value). If it is not, put a zero to the end of the row. I'll give you an example: X000X 0X0X0 00X00 0X0X0 X000X This is a 5 times 5 GROB (the X is a pixels which is on.....): So we have GROB 5 5 The first 4 bit block is X000 which is 0001 (LSB on the left). What follows is again X000 is 0001 Thill now we have GROB 5 5 11. The next row: 0X0X is 1010 which is A. So we have GROB 5 5 11A 0 which completes the row. Next row: 00X0 is 0100 which is 4 After that a 0 ... and so on.... What you'll get is: GROB 5 5 11A040A011 Look at this one: X00 0X0 00X This is: GROB 3 3 102040 The 0's are because there is only 1 4-Bit block in a row, but we need an even number, so every row ends with a 0. http://over.to/hpcomm morriset@servidor.unam.mx schrieb in Nachricht <7cd07e$t2d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... >Need info about: How the grob files works? i mean i see GROB 130 64 001F000010111100.... But >how does that code works? and other cuestion >How work Kermit Im tryinig to make a VB program that can transfer files and make grobs in PC thank yo so much >plese email me http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Symbolic Integration This question must have been already asked, but where can I get a symbolic integration program (or library) for the HP48. Sorry, but I discovered this newsgroup recently. ==== Subject: Re: Symbolic Integration > This question must have been already asked, but where can I get a > symbolic integration program (or library) for the HP48. Sorry, but I > discovered this newsgroup recently. Use the very best of all: ERABLE! Get it at http://www.hpcalc.org http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: Symbolic Integration Where can I VIEW THE THREAD OF THIS POST? >This question must have been already asked, but where can I get a >symbolic integration program (or library) for the HP48. Sorry, but I >discovered this newsgroup recently. Use the very best of all: ERABLE! Get it at http://www.hpcalc.org http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own > Marangon HP48 for beginners! http://www.geocities.com/~hpfb http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: Symbolic Integration > Where can I VIEW THE THREAD OF THIS POST? Go to Dejanews and enter the newsgroup. Select the post and click on thread. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: French and the HP48 >Based on the kind of programs that have come from the French, I wonder if >the the 48 might be popular in France as a programming platform more than as >a calculator. That's not to say that there aren't lots of French math >programs. But the French seem to have spent more time producing games and >development tools for the 48. HMMM...... you know erable ? :)) >I also suspect that the 48 appeals to people with a sense of fun more than >to others. I think that's what attracted me to it. Are French people fun? So fun :))) .88+ ____________________________________________________________________ ==== Subject: Re: French and the HP48 >>Based on the kind of programs that have come from the French, I wonder if >>the the 48 might be popular in France as a programming platform more than as >>a calculator. That's not to say that there aren't lots of French math >>programs. But the French seem to have spent more time producing games and >>development tools for the 48. >HMMM...... >you know erable ? :)) Notice that I carefully said That's not to say that there aren't lots of French math programs. Barry ==== Subject: Re: French and the HP48 > Why is there so much stuff for the HP48 in French? That's what Joe originally wondered, while making France directories on early Goodies Disks :) > I mean, seriously, out of my entire school of 1500 people, > 2 use HP calcs. Why hasn't the HP48 caught on > in America like it has in France? This is strange.... The French are known to appreciate finer things in life, while Americans are known for loving Fox TV and TI calcs :) Hmm.. I wonder what French spoken with an Aussie accent will sound like? Will their families take them back when they return? -------------- With best wishes from: John H Meyers ==== Subject: Re: French and the HP48 >> Why is there so much stuff for the HP48 in french? >Because frenchs are great programmers and they love HP. >And they love to program HP in french. Another stuff in french : http://hp48ezine.tsx.org .88+ ____________________________________________________________________ ==== Subject: Re: Support the SS project - banner-ss-english.jpg (0/1) >Hi all, >Did you know SS ? >It's a great Linux-like Operating System for the HP48. >This project requires all your attention !!!! >I've made a banner in order to put in your WWW pages with this link : >http://www.multimania.com/ss >Thanx to put this in your page and please send me feedback about this >at : bdarcy@nordnet.fr >.88+ > >____________________________________________________________________ >HP48 E-zine, le premier magazine .8electronique des passionn.8es de HP48 >L'info HP48, mise .88 jour quotidienne http://hp48ezine.tsx.org >øøøøøøøø[O Slash]øøøøøøø[OSlash ]øøøøøøøø[OS lash]øøøøøøøø øøøøøøøø[OSl ash]øøøøøøøø øøøøøøøø[OSl ash]øøøøøøøø NO REACTIONS ?????? .88+ ____________________________________________________________________ ==== Subject: Re: 48GX ROMDump >Iâve got a 48SX calculator >I would like to try the 48GX with the emulator, to see if it is worth buying >it. >Does someone know where I can get it, or could someone simply send it by >email? Malheureusement c interdit et le fichier fait 1.00 Mo.... .88+ ____________________________________________________________________ ==== Subject: tansfer protocols What the differences between X, Y and Z modem protocols ? Wich is the speediest ? .88+ ____________________________________________________________________ ==== Subject: Re: tansfer protocols > What the differences between X, Y and Z modem protocols ? > Wich is the speediest ? X Modem: Handshaking: 128 byte blocks (for checksum and transmission): No file names transmitted. Various versions have different checksums. The receiver asks for a file. The receiver has to enter the file name into the OS as well since the file name is not transmitted (advantage: one can download betsy.zip and receive it as veronica.zip! by giving a different local file name). Basically, this works on half duplex lines. It takes 128 bytes, calculates a checksum and sends the data and the checksum and sits and waits. The receiver gets that data, recalculates the checksum and compares to the sum that was sent. IF they agree, it sends an acknowledgement message asking for the next packet. Another 128 bytes. Slow (sending 128 bytes and waiting). Some versions do not properly recognize an incomplete, padded, final block (which can lead to junk characters appearing at the end of the file). Xmodem 1K: handshaking (meaning it requires acknowledgements after each transmisssion block) sometimes (incorrectly) called Y-modem. Same as X-modem but with 1024 byte packets. Y-modem: handshaking (sometimes called Y-modem BATCH if one incorrectly calls X-modem 1K, Y-modem). Supports wild cards. One can ask for files *.zip to be sent. This sends the filenames and then the data (1K blocks). One does not have to type in the filenames for each for the OS to know what the names are, since the filenames are sent (and this allows one to receive more than one file). Usually the last block, if under 1K in size, is sent in 128 byte subblocks. The 1K versions (Xmodem 1K, Ymodem) are much faster (faster turn around due to the larger transmission block size) than Xmodem. All the above lack crash recovery (if you stop the transfer and start it later, you get the file from the beginning, all over again). Zmodem: streaming (not handshaking) different size checksum and transmission blocks. Requires full duplex. Takes some data (checksum block), calculates the checksum and sends the data and checksum, then WITHOUT WAITING for an acknowledgement, it takes some more data, calculates the checksum and sends that off and without waiting, does it again and again ... the receiver, if it gets a block whose data does not match the receive checksum sends a command to the sender bad data in block 28 and the sender starts sending data again, going back and sending block 28 and then 29, etc. Since the requires the receiver, if it gets bad data, to send a request for a resend while the sender is sending data, it requires full duplex (Xmodem, for example, can run on half duplex, since the sender does not send more data until it gets an acknowledgement). The sending block is (usually) the full file size (keeps sending without waiting for acknowledgement until the entire file is sent) (it can modify how it is operating based upon how many errors occur and decrease the checksum block size and/or send transmission blocks and then WAIT for an acknowledgement -- but usually just sends data on and on). Streaming (usually does not have small transmission blocks). Since it just streams data without waiting for acknowledgements, it is faster (the fastest). Sends file names and supports wild cards (can send multiple files) and has crash recovery. If you are receiving a file and stop the transmission, and try to get the file again, it just sends the rest of the file, not starting from the beginning (NOTE: Windows 95 Hyperterminal has an incomplete version of Z-modem ... in particular it does NOT support crash recovery -- the freeware HyperterminalPE DOES support it). Fastest to slowest: ZModem, YModem, Xmodem1K, Xmodem Supports multiple files and sends the filenames in the transmission: Zmodem, YModem Supports crash recovery: Zmodem (NOTE: There are other protocols even faster than Zmodem... I forget the name of the streaming protocol that has NO CHECKSUMS! No check for valid data in the transmission. Saves time in calculating the checksum and the time for sending it. Useful for very stable networks or when using Modems that have their own error detection/correction routines) ==== Subject: Re: tansfer protocols >X Modem: Handshaking: 128 byte blocks (for checksum and transmission): No >file names transmitted. Various versions have different checksums. -----8<----- thanx a lot for all this details !! .88+ ____________________________________________________________________ ==== Subject: Re: A self-built HP48 ROM card. >Your Application 'disk' card could take it's data with it. >For example a Personal Information Manager application in ROM Has anyone attempted to build such a card? card and just insert a ROM. Then u could hardwire the write protection to protected. Matthias Fritschi ==== Subject: maths ! Could anybody tell me how to type in the following expression into the Equation Writer : _n__ / P = | n | j n - j /___ | j | p * ( 1 - p ) j=k / For example: with k=2, n=7 : P = (approximately) 21 p^2 if p << 1 ! Robin Sch.8afer ______________________________________________________________ E-mail: robcall@vlfbox.de / ujqn@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de Phone: +49 721 356324 / +49 441 800 990 5886 Fax: +49 89 66617 11129 / +49 441 800 990 5886 Karl-Hoffmann-Str.4 76137 Karlsruhe Germany ______________________________________________________________ ==== Subject: Re: maths > ! Could anybody tell me how to type in the following expression into the > Equation Writer : _n__ / > P = | n | j n - j > /___ | j | p * ( 1 - p ) > j=k / For example: with k=2, n=7 : P = (approximately) 21 p^2 > if p << 1 ! > --------- I think you search for the COMB(n,k) operation. 'P = SUM( j=k, n, COMB(n,j) * p^j * (1-p)^(n-j) )' | __ | +---> /__ Michael --------- > Robin Sch.8afer > ______________________________________________________________ E-mail: robcall@vlfbox.de / ujqn@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de > Phone: +49 721 356324 / +49 441 800 990 5886 > Fax: +49 89 66617 11129 / +49 441 800 990 5886 Karl-Hoffmann-Str.4 76137 Karlsruhe Germany > ______________________________________________________________ ==== Subject: FS: new HP48GX & Sparcom Pacs HP48GX. new in box--never removed from plastic. $140 prefer local to NYC area so I don't have to ship. otherwise, must be prepaid via postal money order and add $5 for shipping. also Sparcom Mathematics (PN 10071-1A) and Calculus Pacs (PN 10111-1A). both are in new condition in the boxes with manuals. best serious offers considered for one, both or entire package. Calculus Pac PN 10111-1A This pac is a collection of tools and equations that will significantly extend the calculus capabilities of the HP 48SX and HP 48GX. Access the function library for curve fitting routines and root-finding. Integrate by left, right, and midpoint rectangles, trapezoids, and Simpson's rule. Access integral tables, plus add your own. Graphics include 2D and 3D, including hidden-line removal. Symbolic vector and differential equation solving. Features: [Eth]Function Library [Eth]Integration Analysis [Eth]Plotting Tool kit [Eth]Vector Tool kit [Eth]Integral tables [Eth]Limit Analysis [Eth]Reference Data [Eth]Constant Library Function Library [Eth]Fit one point/slope [Eth]Fit two point/slope [Eth]Fit many points [Eth]Piecewise functions [Eth]Build polynomial form roots [Eth]Find roots of polynomial [Eth]Taylor expansion calculation Integration Analysis [Eth]Left rectangles [Eth]Right rectangles [Eth]Midpoint rectangles [Eth]Trapezoidal rule [Eth]Simpson's rule Solve and plot differential equations using the following methods: [Eth]Euler's method [Eth]Modified Euler's method [Eth]Runge-Kutta method [Eth]Slope Field The plotting Tool kit contains commands oriented at enhancing the graphics capabilities of the HP 48SX. 2-D Graphics features include a trace function. 3-D Graphics features include plotting of parametric curves and surfaces along with hidden-line removal. Now Symbolic Vectors are supported by the Calculus Pac! Access over twenty-five programmable commands. ==== Subject: carte d'extension pour GX Je suis .88 la recherche de plans ( materiel, typon, ... ) pour fabriquer une carte d'extension de 1 Mo ou 512Ko ou plus pour mon HP48GX. Mon E-mail : Laurent-G@wanadoo.fr ==== Subject: Re: PDA (was HP's New Color Display!) What is PDA, Bart? > At my high school it's Public Display of Affection. ==== Subject: Re: How much power does the OFF command draw? > I am not sure if the User RPL command OFF completely shuts off > the calculator, or merely turns off the screen. The right-shift OFF function and the UserRPL OFF command each invoke the identical SysRPL function: TurnOff TurnOff in turn invokes DEEPSLEEP, which invokes DeepSleep, which loops back to itself until a Princess kisses the frog; if the frog fails to jump, then this warmstarts... -------------- With best wishes from: John H Meyers http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: HP's New Color Display! >hey now, > no picking on the obviously Pol. Sci. Major ;) >Any real Science/Math/Logic/Computer major would have immediatley seen >the fault in the supposed causality relationship between the colored >pencils and grades. :) My Physics/Calculus teacher uses color dry erase markers for the same reason. Each step is a different color. For example, when we were learning logarithmic differentiation (sp?), he would start in black, the when he took the ln of both sides, he would switch to a different color. Then as he came out the end and undid the ln with an ALOG(!) he would switch back to sorta remind everybody not to forget that last important step. Pretty usefull, I'd say. But not if it costs us alot of battery power. I get about 2-3 months out of my batteries, and I could live with losing a week or two, but not much more than that. They would also have to have a model with and a model without so that us poor students can still afford the calc. Unfortunatly that would raise costs, because they would have to have a version that used the color, and one that didn't. Also would make programming in color more difficult. More stuff to take care of. Lots of bother. Daniel Brooks ==== Subject: Re: HP's New Color Display! > My Physics/Calculus teacher uses color dry erase markers Smart man. > More stuff to take care of. Lots of bother. And for that price of battery life (what are batteries for, anyway) and complexity, you also get a much more powerful tool. I'd really like a color display, even if it means that my batteries will just last a month and that I'll have to learn ten new programming commands. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: HP's New Color Display! The growing controversy...: battery life: true that it eats a pack of batteries for breakfast every morning, this problem is side stepped by not using replaceable batteries... instead, when you're not using it, it rest in a recharging do-hickie, where, i would like (?) for it to behave like a clock radio. i don't think that the Jordona does this yet, but the new 58 would be just that much more useful if it did. thus: it would last perpetually, with 256 colours, and never needing a new set of batteries (?). increase difficulting in programming: these things are always changing, the current 48 using essentially the same language as the old 28, which is only 1 ( or if you count the sx; 2 ) calculators back...it might be intirely reasonable to invent a whole new programming language that requires more head room in the calculator, and less head room in the operator. i would like to see a programming language with lots of colours, and creates programs that are designed as flow-charts...??? you would just type in near plain english sentences, and equations, into boxes, linked with arrows...??? the new calculator, IF it ever does come out ( and i think that there is a very real chance IT WON'T ) it will be very different, and won't 'be like' the 48, with only marginal differences that make some things better and other things worse. it will be something in a whole new direction...??? if HP never makes another SciCalc...it will be because computers, that will do everything that calculators only do a subset of now...will be the size of calculators, removing their single advantage. TI will continue to make markedly cheaper calculators, and survive ( in this market ) ----------- :: o ==== Subject: Re: HP's New Color Display! Oh the next HP calculator will come quite soon. Its availlibility is announced for August,at least in France. It is also said to be officially announced by HP in May. I very doubt that it will have a color screen but perhaps a grayscale levels screen. Timit.8e Hassan > The growing controversy...: battery life: > true that it eats a pack of batteries for breakfast every morning, this problem > is side stepped by not using replaceable batteries... > instead, when you're not using it, it rest in a recharging do-hickie, where, i > would like (?) for it to behave like a clock radio. i don't think that the > Jordona does this yet, but the new 58 would be just that much more useful if it > did. > thus: it would last perpetually, with 256 colours, and never needing a new set > of batteries (?). increase difficulting in programming: > these things are always changing, the current 48 using essentially the same > language as the old 28, which is only 1 ( or if you count the sx; 2 ) > calculators back...it might be intirely reasonable to invent a whole new > programming language that requires more head room in the calculator, and less > head room in the operator. > i would like to see a programming language with lots of colours, and creates > programs that are designed as flow-charts...??? you would just type in near > plain english sentences, and equations, into boxes, linked with arrows...??? the new calculator, IF it ever does come out ( and i think that there is a very > real chance IT WON'T ) it will be very different, and won't 'be like' the 48, > with only marginal differences that make some things better and other things > worse. it will be something in a whole new direction...??? if HP never makes another SciCalc...it will be because computers, that will do > everything that calculators only do a subset of now...will be the size of > calculators, removing their single advantage. TI will continue to make markedly cheaper calculators, and survive ( in this > market ) ----------- :: o > .---..-..-..-..-..-..-. . .-. .-. .-..-..-.. .-. > `| |'| || .` | > / / / / / | .` || | ) / > `-' `-'`-'`-' `-' `. ^ .' `--^--'`-'`-'`-'' `--^--' > Thinking Is The Enemy; Dada Your Way To Happiness! http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: HP's New Color Display! > Oh the next HP calculator will come quite soon. > Its availlibility is announced for August,at least in France. > It is also said to be officially announced by HP in May. > I very doubt that it will have a color screen but perhaps a grayscale levels > screen. Timit.8e Hassan Hi! Could we know from where you are having this information? Is it just something you made up or is there really somehing serious behind this? Just wondering.... Dan -- EMail: daniel.roggen@epfl.ch ICQ: 2510427 Millenium coundtown: there are 291.1 days left until Jan 1 2000 ! ==== Subject: Re: HP's New Color Display! > Oh the next HP calculator will come quite soon. >Its availlibility is announced for August,at least in France. >It is also said to be officially announced by HP in May. >I very doubt that it will have a color screen but perhaps a grayscale levels > screen. Timit.8e Hassan Hi! Could we know from where you are having this information? Is it just something > you made up or is there really somehing serious behind this? Just wondering.... Dan > I get this information(supposed availlability date) from 2 serious french salers who have got it from HP. However for the screen it is just an hypothesis of mine. I am sure that the new HP will not have a color screen. Timit.8e Hassan http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: Does anyone know about data compression? Yes ==== Subject: Re: Does anyone know about data compression? Sorry about that, I couldn't help it. Look into Mika Heiskanen's BZ. Try http://www.hut.fi/~mheiskan/, should be there. You can also try hpcalc.org. ==== Subject: Keyboard I am writing a program that requires input from the keyboard. I am using User-RPL, and so far the keyboard handling portion of my program is half the total size. I was wondering if there was a way to use the internal keyboard Daniel Brooks ==== Subject: Re: Keyboard Daniel wonders: I am writing a program that requires input from the keyboard. I am using User-RPL, and so far the keyboard handling portion of my program is half the total size. I was wondering if there was a way to use the internal keyboard -------:: o i asked about this once before, and i don't think that i ever got a reply...??? one alternative approach, given how your program 'sounds' like it's working...???...might be to use a Custom Menu to jump back and forth between normal calculator functionality, and some special routines that you want to run... the Custom Menu allows you ( i'm kind of fuzzy on how this works, right off the top of my head...!!! ) to run a program, display data on the screen the way you want to display it, stop the program, do something else, resume the running program from where you stopped or start at a new location...??? each of the menukeys would have a key tag and some programming... { { keytag << what the key does >> } { nextkeytag << next ... and then at the end of each program there would be a HALT (???) ... wait...i forget how i used to do this...???!!! anyway... post what you REALLY---WANT to do...and that would give me a better idea what the optimum approach should be...??? ??? !!! ----------- :: o ==== Subject: Re: Keyboard >Daniel wonders: >I am writing a program that requires input from the keyboard. I am using >User-RPL, and so far the keyboard handling portion of my program is half the >total size. I was wondering if there was a way to use the internal keyboard >-------:: o >i asked about this once before, and i don't think that i ever got a >reply...??? one alternative approach, given how your program 'sounds' like it's >working...???...might be to use a Custom Menu to jump back and forth between >normal calculator functionality, and some special routines that you want to >run... >the Custom Menu allows you ( i'm kind of fuzzy on how this works, right off >the >top of my head...!!! ) to run a program, display data on the screen the way >you >want to display it, stop the program, do something else, resume the running >program from where you stopped or start at a new location...??? >each of the menukeys would have a key tag and some programming... >{ { keytag << what the key does >> } { nextkeytag << next ... >and then at the end of each program there would be a HALT (???) >... >wait...i forget how i used to do this...???!!! >anyway... >post what you REALLY---WANT to do...and that would give me a better idea what >the optimum approach should be...??? Basically I'd like the characters to get to my program wile it is running, so that they can be processed individually. Kinda like a word processor I guess. Sorry I was ambigious. Daniel Brooks ==== Subject: ATTN: UK students and recent graduates HP are interested in contacting current UK students and recent graduates in order to conduct market research for a new calculator advertising campaign. Anyone interested should have a look at: http://www.hpcc.org/students.html where there are a few more details and a contact email address. -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== Subject: Re: ATTN: UK students and recent graduates > HP In that page they say: You would get a chance to preview new HP calculator models. I'd say this means that the new HP is comming home rather soon... http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: ATTN: UK students and recent graduates > HP In that page they say: You would get a chance to preview new HP calculator > models. I'd say this means that the new HP is comming home rather soon... Planning and executing an advertising campaign takes several months, so don't hold your breath. Besides it might just be a new campaign for existing models (I don't know, honest). As the many threads in this newsgroup illustrate, the 48 can hold its own against the best of the TIs - they just need a little more sales push. -- Bruce Horrocks (...speaking for myself) Camberley, Surrey GU15 3PD. Email: Bruce.Horrocks@gecm.com GNET: 832 3032 Tel: 01276 686777 Fax: 01276 686623 ==== Subject: Re: ATTN: UK students and recent graduates > You would get a chance to preview new HP calculator models. > Besides it might just be a new campaign for existing Mmm... wait. The page says preview new HP calculator models, not review old HP calculator models. :oD http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Q: Windows HP-Like 32-Bit RPN Calculator Program? All: I'm looking for a suitable RPN program to replace the Windows calculator program. I'm looking for a company that *sells* one and -- Richard M. Smith (509) 754-1126 rmsmith@pobox.com ==== Subject: Re: Windows HP-Like 32-Bit RPN Calculator Program? Richard M. Smith schrieb in Nachricht <36ebfa57.8103091@enews.newsguy.com>... > All: I'm looking for a suitable RPN program to replace the Windows >calculator program. I'm looking for a company that *sells* one and > Try Excalibur at : http://www.tiac.net/users/dber/files.htm Bye ==== Subject: Re: Q: Windows please take a look at www.hpcalc.org under emulators. There you will find some RPN calculator emulators. IMHO the best are ttcalc (HP41CV) and Emu48 (HP48) Sorry, they are for *free*, but at least Emu48 is supported by a variety of people... Raymond Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germanynet.de ==== Subject: 48G upgrade does anyone know what kind of memory card i would need to do the manual upgrade on the 48G, how much it costs, and where i can buy it? ==== Subject: Serial Link Kit How much is the serial link kit that you can get from HP? Is there any way to set up my HP48G to my NEC Ready 9022 via it's IR port? Andy ==== Subject: Re: Serial Link Kit Andy, Don't bother with the HP link Kit, the software is hopelessly outdated. It worked fine with Win 3.1, marginally with Win 95, and not at all with NT 4.0. Get a cable from any of a number of online and mail order sources and any terminal emulator such as Hyperterminal, a list of sources for HP48's and accessories is available at www.hpcalc.org The setup I'm using now is the link cable that came with my kit and HPComm (also available at hpcalc.org) which works well on NT 4.0, it does hang on occasion, but usually when I get ahead of it while the program is busy. Glenn Capone > How much is the serial link kit that you can get from HP? Is there any way > to set up my HP48G to my NEC Ready 9022 via it's IR port? > Andy http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: Serial Link Kit > Andy, Don't bother with the HP link Kit, the software is hopelessly outdated. It > worked fine with Win 3.1, marginally with Win 95, and not at all with NT 4.0. > Get a cable from any of a number of online and mail order sources and any > terminal emulator such as Hyperterminal, a list of sources for HP48's and > accessories is available at www.hpcalc.org The setup I'm using now is the link cable that came with my kit and HPComm > (also available at hpcalc.org) which works well on NT 4.0, it does hang on > occasion, but usually when I get ahead of it while the program is busy. Glenn Capone > How much is the serial link kit that you can get from HP? Is there any way >to set up my HP48G to my NEC Ready 9022 via it's IR port? > Andy > > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own > I have had the smae problem, may i suggest a program called ZTerm for Mac(maybe PC) users. Es ist wundersch.9an. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: RE:256 Colors After reading all these posts Iwould assume that everyone in this particular posting is going to have maybe 500-700 dollars to spend on a new calculator. Theres been a lot of opinions posted here, but personally I would prefer to have 6 levels of greyscale rather than 256 colors. I am a student and coming up with 500-700 dollars would be quite difficult. Let us not forget that this new calculator is also going to be aimed for students. As far as games go Idon't play games on my GX. I originally bought it for which it was designed, a far superior number cruncher at that time. If I want to play games with an electronic device I will buy a color gameboy, because that's what they were intended for, not doing mathematical calculations. Let's not get the two confused. ==== Subject: RE:256 Colors > After reading all these posts Iwould assume that everyone in this > particular posting is going to have maybe 500-700 dollars to spend on a > new calculator. Theres been a lot of opinions posted here, but > personally I would prefer to have 6 levels of greyscale rather than 256 > colors. I am a student and coming up with 500-700 dollars would be quite > difficult. Let us not forget that this new calculator is also going to > be aimed for students. As far as games go Idon't play games on my GX. I > originally bought it for which it was designed, a far superior number > cruncher at that time. If I want to play games with an electronic device > I will buy a color gameboy, because that's what they were intended for, > not doing mathematical calculations. Let's not get the two confused. I think that 4 grayscale levels would be sufficient for the next HP calculator screen. Like you i don't understand this need of a color screen for a calculator. Even Psion which produces the best handled PC has not found yet the utility to use color screen because of the too short battery life which results of this choice so why HP will use this technology on its calculators ? For example the autonomy of the Jordana 420 is only 10 hours. It is very unsefficient for a calculator. Not even mention that the Jordana use a 100 Mhz C.P.U and i very doubt that the next HP will use such a C.P.U. I think that HP would rather use grayscale levels screen and when it will be possible to produce handled tools with both color screen and long life battery then HP will certainly produce color screen calcs. Timit.8e hassan http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: RE:256 Colors I'll be real surprised if HP or anyone else produces a $500 calculator. Who would buy it besides a few of us fanatics? Actually, I doubt that I would. I'm pretty happy with the HP48. Barry >After reading all these posts Iwould assume that everyone in this >particular posting is going to have maybe 500-700 dollars to spend on a >new calculator. Theres been a lot of opinions posted here, but >personally I would prefer to have 6 levels of greyscale rather than 256 >colors. I am a student and coming up with 500-700 dollars would be quite >difficult. Let us not forget that this new calculator is also going to >be aimed for students. As far as games go Idon't play games on my GX. I >originally bought it for which it was designed, a far superior number >cruncher at that time. If I want to play games with an electronic device >I will buy a color gameboy, because that's what they were intended for, >not doing mathematical calculations. Let's not get the two confused. ==== Subject: RE:256 Colors I am a student and coming up with 500-700 dollars would be quite difficult. Let us not forget that this new calculator is also going to be aimed for students. -------------------:: o my prediction is; that while the next generation of 'SciCalc's' will in fact be around the price range you've indictated, they will be alot more than just scicalc's...the scicalc portion of it will be a tiny subset of it's total functionality... the new/next generation of CDC's ( compact digital companions ) will be your telephone, webbrowser, tv. radio, music player, personal diary, general computer and best friend, ...although attachments may be necessary for it to become a ham radio or sexual escort. ----------- :: o ==== Subject: Re: 256 Colors I am a student and coming up with 500-700 dollars would be quite difficult. Let us not forget that this new calculator is also going to be aimed for students. > -------------------:: o >my prediction is; that while the next generation of 'SciCalc's' will in fact be around the price range you've indictated, they will be alot more than just scicalc's...the scicalc portion of it will be a tiny subset of it's total functionality... the new/next generation of CDC's ( compact digital companions ) will be your telephone, webbrowser, tv. radio, music player, personal diary, general computer and best friend, ...although attachments may be necessary for it to become a ham radio or sexual escort. >----------- :: o .---..-..-..-..-..-..-. . .-. .-. .-..-..-.. .-. `| |'| || .` | > / / / / / | .` || | ) / >`-' `-'`-'`-' `-' `. ^ .' `--^--'`-'`-'`-'' `--^--' > Thinking Is The Enemy; Dada Your Way To Happiness! I buy HP calculators for scientific and mathematical capabilities. I do not also want to subscribe to a phone company for the use their cellphone. With all these things you talk about maybe you should buy an HP660 complete with almost everything you describe. People who want a definite high precision number cruncher are not going to be interested with all the crap you talk about. If this is truly what you want then it is already on the shelf, so buy it and Dada your way to happiness. ==== Subject: Questions, questions . I Just got my HP48GX last thursday and on the box I saw (in big numbers) 1.256 MB. After a detailed looking I realized that there can be just 1.256 MB . I thought there can be 4 MB .. And is there a bug in Fibonacci program in TEACH. After analysing the program it seems that only -> n is missing ?? ==== > I just got my HP48GX last Thursday and on the box I saw > (in big numbers) 1.256 MB. After a detailed looking > I realized that there can be just 1.256 MB. > I thought there can be 4 MB .. However, other manufacturers sell cards larger than 1MB; the largest possible card is 4MB (in which port 33, the last possible 128K port, can not be used). > And is there a bug in Fibonacci program in TEACH. > After analysing the program it seems that > only -> n is missing ?? In the AUR, it's called FIB2, has the ->n added (within another set of program delimiters), and also has NEXT DROP changed to NEXT SWAP DROP I'm sorry to say this, but it's almost a tradition, going back a long time, that HP sample programs often contain bugs (and there are more of those in the HP48 set as well); anybody still need my fixes for the HP34C sample TVM program? Compare the following two Fibonacci programs, each taking one argument (which program runs faster?) << 0 1 2 4 ROLL START DUP ROT + NEXT SWAP DROP >> << 0 1 2 4 ROLL START DUP2 + NEXT >> This demonstrates that sometimes you *can* get more for less :) -------------- With best wishes from: John H Meyers http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== <7ck2j6$mtn$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... > And is there a bug in Fibonacci program in TEACH. >After analysing the program it seems that >only -> n is missing ?? In the AUR, it's called FIB2, has the ->n added > (within another set of program delimiters), > and also has NEXT DROP changed to NEXT SWAP DROP I'm sorry to say this, but it's almost a tradition, > going back a long time, that HP sample programs > often contain bugs (and there are more of those > in the HP48 set as well); anybody still need my fixes > for the HP34C sample TVM program? Compare the following two Fibonacci programs, > each taking one argument (which program runs faster?) << 0 1 2 4 ROLL START DUP ROT + NEXT SWAP DROP << 0 1 2 4 ROLL START DUP2 + NEXT This demonstrates that sometimes you *can* get more for less :) > Third alternative: << 5 v/ 1 - 2 / DUP 3 PICK NEG ^ SWAP NEG ROT ^ - 5 v/ / 0 RND >> Hey, where's the loop? Fib(n)=(gm^-n-(-gm)^n)/sqrt(5) where gm is the golden mean, (sqrt(5)-1)/2=0.618.... Christian > -------------- > With best wishes from: John H Meyers http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own > ==== Subject: Re: Questions, questions . all. Here is a new explanation why there's no 4MB ram card for the HP48GX, and why it will work only with the Emu48 emulator. First, there's a problem in the memory management. There's not enough space in the reserved memory area to save all the information regarding a card of 4MB. Also, it is simply impossible for the HP48 hardware (the Bank Switcher) to switch the 32nd bank. This can be explained by the fact that the Yorke chip is using a 8 bits external bus. If you read the bank switcher address to switch the 32nd bank of the card in port 2, you will select in fact the 1st bank. The only way to switch the 32nd bank is to: 1- Unprotect the card in port 2 2- Perform a write access of the bank switcher instead of a read access. Unfortunately, all the internal programs are using a read access to switch the card in port2, and therefore it's not possible to use a card of more than 2MB in the HP48. Emu48 doesn't emulate perfectly the Bank Switcher and the HP48 hardware. Then, this strange behavior will not impact too much the software. You will only get the message: Invalid Card Data. While on a real HP48, everytime you save something in the 32nd bank, you will destroy the first bank Jean-Yves I Just got my HP48GX last thursday and on the box I saw (in big numbers) >1.256 MB. After a detailed looking I realized that there can be just 1.256 >MB . I thought there can be 4 MB .. And is there a bug in Fibonacci program in TEACH. After analysing the >program it seems that only -> n is missing ?? > ==== Subject: Re: Questions, questions . But if you ignore (meaning not trying to use,store,rcl or erase ANYTHING) from port 33 then:is it possible to use banks 2-32 or not? I mean: if i insert a 4M card, turn my calc on, then wouldn't it work fine unless i try to access the last port? Steve http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: Questions, questions . Yes, in Revision 'R' there is an error in Fibon. I believe that's all you have to add to fix it. About the ram, using only HP approved cards, I think you can only reach 1.256 mb. In order to get up to 4 mb, you have to use non-approved equipment that relies on bank switching which means that the HP only accesses portions or your memory at a time. I think that's the explanation. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. Jeremy ==== Subject: Re: Questions, questions . > Yes, in Revision 'R' there is an error in Fibon. I believe that's all you have > to add to fix it. About the ram, using only HP approved cards, I think you can only reach 1.256 > mb. In order to get up to 4 mb, you have to use non-approved equipment that > relies on bank switching which means that the HP only accesses portions or > your memory at a time. I think that's the explanation. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. Jeremy All cards rely on bank switching. Basically the HP48GX can only access to a bank of 128 KB at the time. All cards are divided in banks of 128 KB. HP cards are up to 1 MB certainly because 4 MB card would have been too expensive and it is very rare that someone need a bigger card. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: Questions, questions . (???)... All cards rely on bank switching. Basically the HP48GX can only access to a bank of 128 KB at the time. All cards are divided in banks of 128 KB. ------------------:: o i seem to recall that the number of Ports available are 32...??? 32 x 128 = 4.096M so the problem is simply finding a 4M plug in card...which i believe are available...??? ----------- :: o ==== Subject: Jornal do HP Club do Brasil Ol.87. A primeira edi.8d.8bo do Jornal do HP Club do Brasil j.87 esta pronto e dispon.92vel para download no formato .doc na Home Page do HP Club . Nele vc encontra artigos explicando manuseio, programa.8d.8bo USER e sysrpl al.8em de outros textos relacionados .88 HP48. Espero a colabora.8d.8bo de todos com dicas e artigos para que seja poss.92vel o lan.8damento de outras edi.8d.9bes desse jornal, j.87 que .8e o primeiro jornal em portugu.90s relacionado .88 HP48. Obrigado, Tacio - HP Club ==== Subject: About the availlability of the next HP Some salers announce the availlability of the new HP in August in France. Does anyone know when it will availlable in U.S.A ? Also i have heard that HP will announce it in May,so does anyone know more about it ? http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: About the availlability of the next HP > Some salers announce the availlability of the new HP in August in France. > Does anyone know when it will availlable in U.S.A ? I've no idea. I'd like to know when it will be available in Germany, since I buy from German's Digitalis. If I wait for it to arrive to my country -Panama-, I'll die old without seeing it. ;oD Isn't HP an USA based company? If it is, then I don't see why it should be available in France before than in the USA. Maybe it will come out at the same time everywhere. Maybe it will never come out. Or at least not as I dream it: fulfilled with color! http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: About the availlability of the next HP >Some salers announce the availlability of the new HP in August in France. >Does anyone know when it will availlable in U.S.A ? I've no idea. I'd like to know when it will be available in Germany, since I > buy from German's Digitalis. If I wait for it to arrive to my country > -Panama-, I'll die old without seeing it. ;oD Isn't HP an USA based company? If it is, then I don't see why it should be available in France before than in > the USA. Maybe it will come out at the same time everywhere. Maybe it will > never come out. Or at least not as I dream it: fulfilled with color! > TI is also a USA based company,however the TI85 and the TI92 have been availlable in France before in USA. But i think that the new HP will be availlable in USA at first. By the way why are you so interested by a color screen ? I think that a color screen implies too much power consumption and strongly slow down the tool. Take for example the HP620 LX,it has a 256 color screen,a Hitachi sh3 at 75 Mhz but it is slower than the PSION series 5 and has an autonomy of less than 10 hours. Also the JORDANA 820,it has a STRONG ARM at 190 Mhz but it is also slower than the PSION series 5. So i think that it will be a big error from HP to use a color screen on their new calc. A 4 grayscale levels screen would be sufficient. Timit.8e Hassan http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: About the availlability of the next HP > By the way why are you so interested by a color screen? Because color is a tool. But I wish for it no more. Finally you've gave me a reason to wish for a gray screen instead of a color one: speed. I don't care for battery life. But I DO CARE for speed. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: About the availlability of the next HP and then: > By the way why are you so interested by a color screen? Because color is a tool. But I wish for it no more. Finally you've gave me a reason to wish for a gray screen instead of a color one: speed. I don't care for battery life. But I DO CARE for speed. -:: o i think that the principle problem with this line of thinking is that you're constantly pigeon holeing yourselves into a quantitative view of how the new calc will be engineered... rather than a qualitative view... you're simply adding new features onto an old chassis...! if you're going to build something with new features that draw alot of resources from the old CPU, or even a new CPU, they maybe what you really need to do is distribute the workload... this is not a new idea... the old Ataria 400's understood this principle. you want to do fancy smancy stuff...then add fancy smancy co-processors... a floating point chip, a sound chip, a video chip, a display chip, a 3D chip, an algebraic analysis chip, a voice analysis chip, a speaking chip...and so on... most of these should be either integrated into an all purpose 'extras' that any manufacturer would be able to pull off a shelf and stick in their toaster... (???) 256 colours has nothing to do with trading performance for speed, it has to do with trading perforance for dumbness. and by the way...along with 256 colours, the new calc should come with a speech quality sound speaker and co-processor...sound is just as important for providing the user with information as colour...and the resolution should be 144 pixels per inch, minimum. ----------- :: o ==== Subject: Re: About the availlability of the next HP and then: >By the way why are you so interested by a color screen? >Because color is a tool. But I wish for it no more. Finally you've gave me a reason to wish for a gray screen instead of a color one: speed. I don't care for battery life. But I DO CARE for speed. > -:: o >>i think that the principle problem with this line of thinking is that you're >constantly pigeon holeing yourselves into a quantitative view of how the new >calc will be engineered... >rather than a qualitative view... >you're simply adding new features onto an old chassis...! >if you're going to build something with new features that draw alot of >resources from the old CPU, or even a new CPU, they maybe what you really >need >to do is distribute the workload... >this is not a new idea... >the old Ataria 400's understood this principle. >you want to do fancy smancy stuff...then add fancy smancy co-processors... >a floating point chip, a sound chip, a video chip, a display chip, a 3D chip, >an algebraic analysis chip, a voice analysis chip, a speaking chip...and so >on... >most of these should be either integrated into an all purpose 'extras' that any >>manufacturer would be able to pull off a shelf and stick in their toaster... >(???) >256 colours has nothing to do with trading performance for speed, it has to do >with trading perforance for dumbness. >and by the way...along with 256 colours, the new calc should come with a >speech >quality sound speaker and co-processor...sound is just as important for >providing the user with information as colour...and the resolution should be >144 pixels per inch, minimum. ----------- :: o > .---..-..-..-..-..-..-. . .-. .-. .-..-..-.. .-. > `| |'| || .` | > / / / / / | .` || | ) / > `-' `-'`-'`-' `-' `. ^ .' `--^--'`-'`-'`-'' `--^--' > Thinking Is The Enemy; Dada Your Way To Happiness! Tiny wanda I think you want a handheld not a calculator. If color and speech synthesise is what you want then you want a handheld not a calculator. Calculators are and were designed for mathematical capabilities. I think the next calculator will have a host of new features, but if you think for one minute anyone is going to buy one that has a built in beeper and that they have to subscribe to some service for a two year agreement just to buy a calculator then I think you are out of touch with reality. It seems the last reality check you made bounced. ==== Subject: Re: About the availlability of the next HP Just wondering, from everything I've read in this newsgroup...do you practice being offensive? Geez....my momma always says, If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all Jeremy ==== Subject: Re: About the availlability of the next HP Just wondering, from everything I've read in this newsgroup...do you practice being offensive? Geez....my momma always says, If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all Jeremy --------------------:: o was this directed toward me (tw), or ...??? speaking for the hamster continuum under my bed... we don't mind a good flame war, so long as the posts are either clever and insightful... OR very unclever and very uninsightful. one of my favorite posts during a flame war several years ago regarding [deleted for legal reasons] was one by [deleted] that consisted of only two words [deleted deleted] over and over again, for something like 20 lines. When a chicken becomes an egg again, the universe laughs. ----------- :: o ==== Subject: Re: About the availlability of the next HP ==== Subject: Re: About the availlability of the next HP boundary=------------01A72D318837B20FDC9F2FBC --------------01A72D318837B20FDC9F2FBC 256 colours has nothing to do with trading performance for speed, it has to do with trading perforance for dumbness. >Just wondering, from everything I've read in this newsgroup...do you practice being offensive? Geez....my momma always says, If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all >Jeremy > It seems you two are very offensive to people with dumbness, and if you can't any thing nice about people don't say anything at all. Just what is this group about anyway. I had thought perhaps it was a place to exchange ideas, opinions, post news, give advice, or get advice etc.. Is the hp48 newsgroup about berating people for what they believe at the same time defending your beliefs. I can take my chances, but just what is this about. I have seen advertisements for sex sites on this site, I've witnessed people saying It's just a F****** calculator. I've also seen in the last couple of days that someone posted his rom on his own site completely ignoring copyright laws. This whole thread about color screens is just as worthless as some of the other things I've seen, and you jump my butt for a different opinion. OK. I'll accept that jeremy and tiny wanda if you two always want to right and can make decisions about people being offensive or not, according to you two. I personally don't think HP is going to sell all the things that tiny wanda talks about for 200 dollars although icould be wrong, only time will tell. I happen to think it's offensive to post 20 times in the same thread about the same thing also. A couple of posts is fine but if you want to force it down people's throats, I guess you are going to do so. All my best wishes for HP to come out with a calculator that has what it has now but also some improvements. I want HP to dump on TI. It also seems that some people in this thread are on a different wave length than the rest of us mortals. I personally would like to own a Rolls Royce, but I'd hate to drive it because the sun fades paint job. I also buy things that are funcional that I can use and not show off what I dont use. --------------01A72D318837B20FDC9F2FBC  
>
>256 colours has nothing to do with trading performance 
for speed, it has to do
>with trading perforance for dumbness.

  
>Just wondering, from everything I've read in this newsgroup...do you 
practice
>being offensive?  Geez....my momma always says, If you can't say 
anything
>nice, don't say anything at all
>Jeremy
It seems you two are very offensive to people with dumbness, and if you can't any thing nice about people don't say anything at all.
Just what is this group about anyway. I had thought perhaps it was a place to exchange ideas, opinions, post news, give advice, or get advice etc.. Is the hp48 newsgroup about berating people for what they believe at the same time defending your beliefs. I can take my chances, but just what is this about. I have seen advertisements for sex sites on this site, I've witnessed people saying It's just a F****** calculator. I've also seen in the last couple of days that someone posted his rom on his own site completely ignoring copyright laws.
This whole thread about color screens is just as worthless as some of the other things I've seen, and you jump my butt for a different opinion. OK. I'll accept that jeremy and tiny wanda if you two always want to right and can make decisions about people being offensive or not, according to you two.
I personally don't think HP is going to sell all the things that tiny wanda talks about for 200 dollars although icould be wrong, only time will tell.
I happen to think it's offensive to post 20 times in the same thread about the same thing also. A couple of posts is fine but if you want to force it down people's throats, I guess you are going to do so.
All my best wishes for HP to come out with a calculator that has what it has now but also some improvements. I want HP to dump on TI.
It also seems that some people in this thread are on a different wave length than the rest of us mortals. I personally would like to own a Rolls Royce, but I'd hate to drive it because the sun fades paint job. I also buy things that are funcional that I can use and not show off what I dont use.


  --------------01A72D318837B20FDC9F2FBC-- ==== Subject: Re: About the availlability of the next HP More of the ( same ): Tiny wanda I think you want a handheld not a calculator. If color and speech synthesise is what you want then you want a handheld not a calculator. Calculators are and were designed for mathematical capabilities. I think the next calcu... ---------- :: o well...as i've mentioned this repeatedly already...the next high end calculator, and the next low end computer will be, most probably, indistinquishable. also: i have a Casio T-500 watch...with a touch screen calculator, and 30 more odd functions, and occasionally someone will note...what do you need all that for, how often do you use the calculator, or all the alarms? and the answer is; hardly ever, but the bigger point is; what did i trade for those features...? is the watch any bigger than a less featured watch? did it cost substantially more? it did not. the next calc will be like this. everyone is assuming that more colour and (such) will make it prohibitively expensive...and i would counter that computers and (HP) calulators have become more and more featured over the years, and the price for each 'level' that has come out has remained remarkably stable, driven by raw capitalism, and what the market will bare, not by how many new features are on any given new machine... new computers are typically 1500 to 2500 $ and HP Calc's are typically 200$ there is every reason to think that regardless of how many new features the next calc has, it will cost no more than 250$, with a jr. version around 100$, available 6 months later. ??? ----------- :: o ==== Subject: Re: About the availlability of the next HP I think I agree with TinyWanda here. However, it seems to me that the `definitive' device may turn out the `smart phone' rather than the `calculator that communicates'. I have noticed that my cellular phone has now pretty much taken over the `phonebook' function of my handheld. I no longer look up phone numbers, my cellphone has them. My cellphone also has `calendar' and `calculator' functions. In their current implementation they stink and are essentially useless. However, some software is on the way to make the calendar function useful, so I probably will gradually quit using my handheld for that as well. If they (the phone folks) ever get thieir `calculator' in decent shape, I'll quit carrying a calculator, as my phone (which I must carry anyway) will have supplanted the most important funtions that caused me to carry a calculator in the first place. > well...as i've mentioned this repeatedly already...the next high end > calculator, and the next low end computer will be, most probably, > indistinquishable. > also: i have a Casio T-500 watch...with a touch screen calculator, and 30 more > ... ==== Subject: Re: About the availlability of the next HP >Some salers announce the availlability of the new HP in August in France. >> Does anyone know when it will availlable in U.S.A ? I've no idea. I'd like to know when it will be available in Germany, since I >buy from German's Digitalis. If I wait for it to arrive to my country >-Panama-, I'll die old without seeing it. ;oD Isn't HP an USA based company? If it is, then I don't see why it should be available in France before than in >the USA. Maybe it will come out at the same time everywhere. Maybe it will >never come out. Or at least not as I dream it: fulfilled with color! > > TI is also a USA based company,however the TI85 and the TI92 have been > availlable in France before in USA. But i think that the new HP will be > availlable in USA at first. By the way why are you so interested by a color > screen ? I think that a color screen implies too much power consumption and > strongly slow down the tool. Take for example the HP620 LX,it has a 256 color > screen,a Hitachi sh3 at 75 Mhz but it is slower than the PSION series 5 and > has an autonomy of less than 10 hours. Also the JORDANA 820,it has a STRONG > ARM at 190 Mhz but it is also slower than the PSION series 5. So i think that > it will be a big error from HP to use a color screen on their new calc. A 4 > grayscale levels screen would be sufficient. Timit.8e Hassan Don't forget the Microsoft effect here... i.e. EPOC32 and apps weren't written by Microsoft so they don't suffer from bloatware syndrome. . ==== Subject: Re: About the availlability of the next HP > Don't forget the Microsoft effect here... i.e. EPOC32 and apps weren't written > by Microsoft so they don't suffer from bloatware syndrome. . > $ Yes there is the microsoft syndrom but do you think that the JORDANA 820 with its 190 Mhz strong ARM is faster than the HP360LX with its 40 Mhz Hitachi sh3 ? I think that despite the weakness of Microsoft softwares the color screen is also responsible of the slowness. All the Handled PC with a color screen have very powerful CPU but despite that they are often slower than handled PC with grayscale levels screens. Regarding the next HP,it will certainly have a CPU less powerful than the ARM 7100 of the PSION,so if it uses a color screen it will be dramatically slow. Timit.8e Hassan http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: About the availlability of the next HP > Don't forget the Microsoft effect here... i.e. EPOC32 and apps weren't written > by Microsoft so they don't suffer from bloatware syndrome. What is this bloatware syndrome? http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: About the availlability of the next HP >Don't forget the Microsoft effect here... i.e. EPOC32 and apps weren't written >by Microsoft so they don't suffer from bloatware syndrome. What is this bloatware syndrome? Microsoft software is usually larger and slower than it could be, so it is not just color slowing down a 75 mhz CPU, it is actually WinCE itself. . ==== Subject: Re: About the availlability of the next HP Added note: > What is this bloatware syndrome? Microsoft software is usually larger and slower than it could be, so it is not just color slowing down a 75 mhz CPU, it is actually WinCE itself. . ...................:: o there was a documentary special on the telly (awhile) ago, and one of the software programmers that worked for MS was saying that the management at that time ( still? ) was methodically driving their programmers to create more lines of code...the managers were equating lines of code with productivity...even when the programmers themselves would say, 'what we really want are good algorythms to do specific tasks...' but the managers wouldn't hear of it...!...they wanted lines of code, and wouldn't take any substitutes...! ----------- :: o ==== Subject: MS Syndrome You are incorrect. I've read a book somewhere about Microsoft and I noticed that Microsoft take it as a plan or goal to USE UP ALL resources of a given hardware. Didn't you notice that MS software doesn't stop in demanding for more things everytime a new hardware comes out? > Added note: >What is this bloatware syndrome? > Microsoft software is usually larger and slower than it could be, so > it is not just color slowing down a 75 mhz CPU, it is actually WinCE > itself. > . > ...................:: o > there was a documentary special on the telly (awhile) ago, and one of the > software programmers that worked for MS was saying that the management at that > time ( still? ) was methodically driving their programmers to create more lines > of code...the managers were equating lines of code with productivity...even > when the programmers themselves would say, 'what we really want are good > algorythms to do specific tasks...' but the managers wouldn't hear of > it...!...they wanted lines of code, and wouldn't take any substitutes...! ----------- :: o > .---..-..-..-..-..-..-. . .-. .-. .-..-..-.. .-. > `| |'| || .` | > / / / / / | .` || | ) / > `-' `-'`-'`-' `-' `. ^ .' `--^--'`-'`-'`-'' `--^--' > Thinking Is The Enemy; Dada Your Way To Happiness! > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: MS Syndrome You are incorrect. I've read a book somewhere about Microsoft and I noticed > that Microsoft take it as a plan or goal to USE UP ALL resources of a given > hardware. That's true. Microsoft programs use ALL ressources, even to do a simple task (moving your mouse, for example: need the CPU, the memory, the disk for the swap (need a lot of memory, you need swap), the video card, the disk drive (maybe there's something interesting on it?) ...). But Microsoft's policy about programmers remember me the one of IBM, where programmers were paid proportionnaly to the number of line codes > Didn't you notice that MS software doesn't stop in demanding for more things > everytime a new hardware comes out? That's right too, MS software demands too much from computer hardware. Jul PS: excuse me if i misunderstood you, my english is no good at all ==== Subject: Re: TI92 vs. HP48GX > Please wich one is better, I was the proud owner of an Hp48 Gx till I tried > the emu of TI92. Now I'm dissapointed. ÀDid I Buy the wrong one? > It really depends of what you want to do with the tool. I use both calc since a long time and i think that the HP48GX is overall a better tool. Except for computer algebra and user friendliness the TI92 is not so great and even for computer its abilities are quite limited. You should rather try to look at the TI89 which is an ehanced TI92 in a vertical format and significantly cheaper. But my best advice would be to wait for the next HP which will certainly be availlable this summer !!! http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: TI92 vs. HP48GX How do you know that HP is coming out with a new model and when it will be available? Where can I find out about the new features? I just bought a 48G and I can take it back within the next two weeks. If HP is coming out with the successor to the 48G this summer - I will wait and continue to use my 28S. >Please wich one is better, I was the proud owner of an Hp48 Gx till I tried >the emu of TI92. Now I'm dissapointed. ÀDid I Buy the wrong one? It really depends of what you want to do with the tool. I use both calc since > a long time and i think that the HP48GX is overall a better tool. Except for > computer algebra and user friendliness the TI92 is not so great and even for > computer its abilities are quite limited. You should rather try to look at > the TI89 which is an ehanced TI92 in a vertical format and significantly > cheaper. But my best advice would be to wait for the next HP which will > certainly be availlable this summer !!! http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: TI92 vs. HP48GX The HP 48GX is definately superior. If you have library upgrades even moreso. Meta Kernel and Erable are two very important tool, now that I have them, my calculator shoud probably be made illegal :-) http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: forbidden HP48G A few years ago in a chemistry class, the professor warned about relying too much on calculators. He told the students that by doing calculations by hand one could also keep track of units. No calculator in the world will do units, he said You'd need a mainframe computer to handle units. That was an easy class. Wolf On Thu, 4 Mar 1999 03:28:06 -0500, Ken Alverson >>Someone has already mentioned one way of 'cheating' with an HP48, creating >>text variables which can be recalled. That's why some places will only >>allow it if it is RESET by the test administrator before the test, and >>no memory cards are allowed. >That kind of cheating can be accomplished with any graphing calculator, so >it is still kinda unfair to rule out one over another. Most teachers don't >even know the hp48gx can take memory cards =) At least none of mine >do...We're allowed to store equations and such in our calcs anyway should we >want to, so it's no big deal... Ken ==== Subject: Re: forbidden HP48G Heh, yeah, I love science classes where half the time is spent doing unit conversions, because it means I get out of there twice as fast. Ken >A few years ago in a chemistry class, the professor warned about >relying too much on calculators. He told the students that by doing >calculations by hand one could also keep track of units. No >calculator in the world will do units, he said You'd need a >mainframe computer to handle units. That was an easy class. ==== Subject: Re: wanted: HP48 emulator for the Palm III X-Notice: Items posted that violate the IBM.NET Acceptable Use Policy X-Notice: should be reported to postmaster@ibm.net MathPad for the Palm Pilot will solve equations and sells for $11.95. Check http://www.pilotgear.com/ and search for MathPad. You can download and demo to see if it does what you want. >I've had an HP48 since the early 90s and used it throughout college. One of >the most endearing features on it was the solve which I used extensively in >my Engineering Economics class. (As well as Joust and Tetris). Now that I am out and making some $, I want to take those equations I used >from Engineering Econ and put them to use on my Palm III PDA along with some >RPL scripts. Has anyone else desired this? I'm picturing that there must be a way to get the basic scripting features >and equivalent of an HP equation solver onto a Palm III. Heck, this kind of >emulator could be a sizable revenue stream for whoever makes it. HP, TI, or >John Doe. I'm willing to pay for it, even if it doesn't do Joust or Tetris. >Is anybody willing to build it? --Chuck Jaeger PS: Any whining about being a traitor and going over to the dark side will be >ignored. I like the Palm's size and it's calendar/phone/email/misc features. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: FS: new HP48GX & Sparcom Pacs HP48GX. new in box--never removed from plastic. $140 prefer local to NYC area so I don't have to ship. otherwise, must be prepaid via postal money order and add $5 for shipping. also Sparcom Mathematics (PN 10071-1A) and Calculus Pacs (PN 10111-1A). both are in new condition in the boxes with manuals. best serious offers considered for one, both or entire package. Calculus Pac PN 10111-1A This pac is a collection of tools and equations that will significantly extend the calculus capabilities of the HP 48SX and HP 48GX. Access the function library for curve fitting routines and root-finding. Integrate by left, right, and midpoint rectangles, trapezoids, and Simpson's rule. Access integral tables, plus add your own. Graphics include 2D and 3D, including hidden-line removal. Symbolic vector and differential equation solving. Features: [Eth]Function Library [Eth]Integration Analysis [Eth]Plotting Tool kit [Eth]Vector Tool kit [Eth]Integral tables [Eth]Limit Analysis [Eth]Reference Data [Eth]Constant Library Function Library [Eth]Fit one point/slope [Eth]Fit two point/slope [Eth]Fit many points [Eth]Piecewise functions [Eth]Build polynomial form roots [Eth]Find roots of polynomial [Eth]Taylor expansion calculation Integration Analysis [Eth]Left rectangles [Eth]Right rectangles [Eth]Midpoint rectangles [Eth]Trapezoidal rule [Eth]Simpson's rule Solve and plot differential equations using the following methods: [Eth]Euler's method [Eth]Modified Euler's method [Eth]Runge-Kutta method [Eth]Slope Field The plotting Tool kit contains commands oriented at enhancing the graphics capabilities of the HP 48SX. 2-D Graphics features include a trace function. 3-D Graphics features include plotting of parametric curves and surfaces along with hidden-line removal. Now Symbolic Vectors are supported by the Calculus Pac! Access over twenty-five programmable commands. ==== Subject: hp48g(x) font installation.. i've just purchased an hp48gx and i'm pretty impressed with it, however i don't like the large fonts so i went out and looked for a smaller one, and after about 5 minutes i found some on www.hpcalc.org but after downloading it i found it contains absolutly no documentation on how to install them. so what i was wondering is how do i change the font of the base system. (not in some of those editors for can download) it anywhere in any faq's or documentation. (and i've tried installing is as a libruary but that doesn't seem to work) hope to hear soon. (please email me at cobwash@hotmail.com and send a reply here as well just in case i miss the reply.) ==== Subject: Re: hp48g(x) font installation.. The universal font library is used by a number of applications written for the 48G(X), and so, not useful without one of these app's. I think you may want to try Java, it's a stack replacement app that uses a smaller font size; 5 line display at command line, and 7 lines interactive. I have it loaded, and use it now and then for a change of pace. It does use the ufl so the menu buttons show more characters than normal, and there are more nice features described in the docs. Glenn Capone > i've just purchased an hp48gx and i'm pretty impressed with it, however i > don't like the large fonts so i went out and looked for a smaller one, and > after about 5 minutes i found some on www.hpcalc.org but after downloading > it i found it contains absolutly no documentation on how to install them. so > what i was wondering is how do i change the font of the base system. (not in > some of those editors for can download) it anywhere in any faq's or documentation. (and i've tried installing is as > a libruary but that doesn't seem to work) hope to hear soon. (please email me at cobwash@hotmail.com and send a reply > here as well just in case i miss the reply.) http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: small fonts Hi An on ymous, (a pretty strange name if you have a G+ or GX I suggest to use EQStk, a really great and stable stack replacement. In addition you may want to use TED/VV. TED includes a superb editor with small font and VV is an universal viewer. If you own a G you may want to try Hyperstack, which only takes less then one kilobyte and offers a truly usefull 7-level stack. Peter E-Mail: karpfenteich@gmx.de _______________________________ Do you know the great Frequently Asked Questions? http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/ and the superb HP48 Software Archive? http://www.hpcalc.org to look for *old* HP48 postings see http://www.dejanews.com ==== Subject: Re: hp48g(x) font installation.. You might find it easier to download one of the stack utilities. These use smaller fonts to put more visible lines in the stack. They also add a lot of capabilitied to the calculator. I think EQSTACK and JAVA are the names of a couple of them. I'm not sure which are good and which arent or just what features they have. I havent used them. I tried out a few when I first got my calc but I didn't have an sram card then so I didn't want to give up the room. I guess now I'm used to the standard font. Barry I think >i've just purchased an hp48gx and i'm pretty impressed with it, however i >don't like the large fonts so i went out and looked for a smaller one, and >after about 5 minutes i found some on www.hpcalc.org but after downloading >it i found it contains absolutly no documentation on how to install them. so >what i was wondering is how do i change the font of the base system. (not in >some of those editors for can download) it anywhere in any faq's or documentation. (and i've tried installing is as >a libruary but that doesn't seem to work) hope to hear soon. (please email me at cobwash@hotmail.com and send a reply >here as well just in case i miss the reply.) > ==== Subject: evaluating Pi did anybody try to evaluate Pi? I saw a simple algorithm using random numbers. You simply scatter points on a square, then you evaluate the distance of each point to the origin of the square (one edge of the sqare is the origin). If the distance of this point to the origin is less than the length of the square, then you hit the quartercircle wich is inscribed in the square(origin of the circle is origin of the square). n is the number of random points. k is the number of random points which hit the quartercircle( subset of n). You can say: Aqcircle=Pi*a*a/4 Asquare=a*a This means : Pi=4*Aqcircle/Asquare To tell with random points, it is Asquare ~n and Aqcircle~k. ----> Pi=4*k/n The HP48 creates random numbers from 0<= randomnumber <1. The square should have the length of 1 and the inscribed circle the radius 1. In USR-RPL this might go like this: << 0 -> n k << 1 n START RAND SQ RAND SQ + @ SQUAREROOT isnt necessary here 1 < << 'k' INCR DROP >> IFT NEXT k n / 4 * >> Set the random seed to 1 if you want to compare your results with mine! ( 1 RDZ ) Put the number of random points in stack level one and start the program. For example: 10 ------> 2,8 (0,29s) 100 ----> 3,16 (2,97s) 1000 -----> 3,096 (31,71s) 10000 ------> 3,1432 (328,76s) I made a little program in SYS-RPL, too which does the same as the above one, but is approximately twice as fast. (and gives the same rusults for Pi) I am sure that there are many other ways to calculate Pi, I am curious, if anybody else has made a little program to do it faster. (USR-RPL or SYS-RPL) Are there possibilities to calculate Pi without using the RAND function? (Dont tell me the Pi-Const!) Is this program only a test for the random-numbers, the HP48 creates? Any suggestions? This was written by Joachim Stump. ==== Subject: Re: evaluating Pi > Are there possibilities to calculate Pi without using the RAND function? > (Dont tell me the Pi-Const!) Since tan(pi/4) = 1, then pi = 4*atan(1) . I«m talking about RADIANS. Anyway, you could probably get approximately the same results if you use pi = 4*atan(45) (degrees). Didn«t you know that? Eduardo M Kalinowski mailto:ekalin@iname.com http://move.to/hp48g ICQ 10944368 http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: evaluating Pi although essentially the same as using RAND, this allows you to take any data set, such as the numbers from your roladex...(?) Teachers Edition for Cabbage Shui The guide to finding your harmonious circumference. -:: o Spying Pi in the Sky Copied here without Permission (!!!) from _Science News_ May 20, 1995 It's calculated in the stars. In the April 20 _Nature_, A.J. Matthews of the applied mathematics and computer science department at the University of Aston in Birmingham, England, describes how to use the distribution of bright stars across the night sky to deduce a surprisingly accurate value of pi, the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. ãMy aim was extract something mathematically interesting from something we're all familiar with, ã Matthews says. This result follows from an application of certain theorems in number theory. These hold that, given any part of whole numbers chosen from a large, random collection of numbers, the probability that the two numbers have no common factor other then 1 is 6/pi^2 ( about 0.61). For example, in a set of numbers including 8, 9, and 27, 9 and 27 have the common factor 3, whereas 8 and 27, as well as 8 and 9, have no common factor apart from 1. It's possible to calculate the value of pi by determining what proportion of pairs of whole numbers selected from a large, random sample has no common factors. As the source of random numbers for his ãcelestial estimate of pi, Matthews used the angular separation between the positions of pairs of the 100 brightest stars. He checked a million pairs of these numbers for factorncient Greeks use to believe that numbers lie at the root of all things, Matthew notes, I guess this result tends to support that idea. ----------------- in no uncertain terms how to go about calculating this...particularly the bit-- It's possible to calculate the value of pi by determining what proportion of pairs of whole numbers selected from a large, random sample has no common factors. --??? i'm not sure if the method i used is correct...the data seems to be converging on pi as it's supposed to, but this technique i'm using seems too _simple_ to me...??? (!) The method i used was: Take a list of numbers. Determine how many numbers are on the list. Save that as 'Size'. Perform a 2 COMB on Size; Save as 'Delta'. Determine the Factors of all the numbers on the list. Compare pairs of all the combinations of the lists of Factors... Looking for Pairs that Do-Not have common factors. Keep a tab of those. Divide that accumulated result by Delta. Call it 'R'. Add that, with =, to the EQ '6/(p^2)' [ '(6/(p^2))=R' ] Use ROOT to find p. p should be very close to pi...??? This method seems extremely remarkable in that it's allowing you to find the true value of pi by using a (large)* list of utterly random numbers...!!! If you can find this amazingly interesting universal constant in such a list, they how can you ever believe, or trust in the results of a list of numbers that actually, allegedly, represent something, and a methodology that is supposed to be telling you something useful about that list of actual datum...??? .......................... pi... Using Random numbers, i've gotten within 2% with lists as short as 12 numbers...! sproogles... The TinyWanda Collective Tirelessly working to find New ways to Procrastinate. ----------- :: o ==== Subject: Re: evaluating Pi (3.14159265358979323846...) > I once saw a series for pi that converged very quickly. An algorithm has been discovered for calculating any desired hex digit of pi without calculating all the previous digits. Not only is this surprising, but it also converges rather quickly: infinity ----- (- n) / 4 2 1 1 pi = ) 16 |------- - ------- - ------- - -------| / 8 n + 1 8 n + 4 8 n + 5 8 n + 6/ ----- n = 0 The HP48 only needs 8 iterations of this to stabilize. Here's a human-readable program that does it: << 0 0 7 FOR n '16^-n*(4/(8*n+1)-2/(8*n+4)-1/(8*n+5)-1/(8*n+6))' EVAL + DUP 1 DISP NEXT >> BYTES: #57E0h 152.5 TIME (without the DUP 1 DISP): 0.6 seconds -Joe- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: evaluating Pi > did anybody try to evaluate Pi? One of the fastest I've ever seen is the FPI command in the LongFloat library by Mika Heiskanen and Claude-Nicolas Fiechter. FPI will return as many digits of PI as you want. It uses the ALG48 library, so the whole package is rather large and surely overkill if all you want to do is calculate pi. But if you have enough memory, these libraries are must-haves. See this web page for ALG48 and LongFloat: http://www.cs.pitt.edu/~fiechter/hp48/alg48.html -Joe- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: evaluating Pi did anybody try to evaluate Pi? I saw a simple algorithm using random numbers. > Is this program only a test for the random-numbers, the HP48 creates? Any suggestions? > You are describing the program PINT from a Scientific American column (german: Spektrum der Wissenschaft, Computer-Kurzweil) several years ago (<= 1990 ?). It is just a very simple example of the so-called Monte-Carlo calculation methods and one of the worst methods to calculate pi. In the same collumn of a much later issue of Sci. Am. /S. d. W. (< 1996 ?) there was described an algorithm to calculate the digits of pi (named Troepfel-Algorithmus in german). However, a few days ago, I have downloaded the file included below for the HP 28, don' t know, from where it was. It should work on a HP 48, too. But I have' nt tried that until now. Have fun Joerg Bernges ************************************************************************* ----- PI Generator Matthew T. Day ----- ==== Subject: PI Generator Here's a little program for the HP-28S that computes the digits of pi. It's algorithm is slow converging. This program takes one number from the stack: the number of digits that it should generate. It then prints out the digits as it generates them, and when it's done, it places everything it computed into a string and leaves that string on the stack. This algorithm generates pi in 4 digit segments. This program is quite slow, I would love to see a few of the more complicated algorithms implemented, choose the fastest, and then convert it to machine code for speed. If anyone has done this before, please let me know. PI (Checksum [408B]): << 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 [0] -> n d t q h j newj m i k x a << RCLF STD CLLCD n 2 + 'n' STO 4 n 4 MOD - n + 4 / 'n' STO n d * 3.3219 * 1 + IP 'm' STO 2 m * 1 - IP 'newj' STO {m} 2 CON 'a' STO 1 n FOR k 0 'q' STO newj 'j' STO m 1 FOR i a i GET 10000 * i q * + .5 + IP 't' STO t j / IP 'q' STO a i t q j * - PUT 'a' STO j 2 - 'j' STO -1 STEP q 10000 / h + IP ->STR DUP SIZE 'x' STO WHILE x 4 < REPEAT 0 SWAP + x 1 + 'x' STO END + DUP DUP SIZE DUP 22 - SWAP SUB 2 DISP q q 10000 / IP 10000 * .5 + IP - 'h' STO NEXT SWAP STOF DUP SIZE 4 SWAP SUB CLMF >> -- - Matthew T. Day, Sanyo/Icon International, mday@iconsys.icon.com ----- This file is maintained by Luc.Pauwels@ccl.kuleuven.ac.be ************************************************************************* -- --------------- # J. Bernges # Fraunhofer Institut f. Lasertechnik # Steinbachstr. 15, D-52074 Aachen, Germany. # Tel: + 49 (0) 241 8906 0, Fax: +49 (0) 241 8906 121 # EMail: BERNGES@ilt.fhg.de, WWW: http://www.ilt.fhg.de ==== Subject: Re: evaluating Pi On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:22:44 +0100, Joachim Stump Look at E. Kalinowski User-RPL tutorial for a number of evaluating Pi just with summs. ie. Pi=4-4/3+4/5-4/7+4/9-4/11+ etc. (Sagan's Contact has this equation somewhere in the begging :)) >For example: 10 ------> 2,8 (0,29s) > 100 ----> 3,16 (2,97s) > 1000 -----> 3,096 (31,71s) > 10000 ------> 3,1432 (328,76s) Are those SECONDS ?? Slow...very slow.... >I made a little program in SYS-RPL, too which does the same as the above >one, but is >approximately twice as fast. (and gives the same rusults for Pi) I am sure that there are many other ways to calculate Pi, I am curious, if >anybody else >has made a little program to do it faster. (USR-RPL or SYS-RPL) >Are there possibilities to calculate Pi without using the RAND function? >(Dont tell me the Pi-Const!) Taylor summs etc. ==== Subject: Re: evaluating Pi > Are there further suggestions on how to calculate Pi? See -------------- With best wishes from: John H Meyers ==== Subject: Manuals for HP48G Anybody have an extra set of the manuals that comes with the calculator or know the best place to buy? ==== Subject: Impossible to read?:) Hi: Last day I downloaded the document programming in system RPL post script version (because I couldn't read the PDF version), but when I decompressed it I got an amazing file with 6 Mb and impossible to understand. Do I need any kind of program to read it? Am I missing anything?) Once more, thank you very much for your help. . http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: Impossible to read?:) I use the PDF version of this program, it works just fine. It required Adobe Acrobat. Acrobat is free, and many software programs that I already have installed automatically installed Acrobat so that their online manuals could be accessed. The version of programm.pdf I have is 536K. Dennis Have pity on me. I use AOL. I have eaten every apple I ever owned. All of my Microsoft products work. Windows works fine for me too. If I have nothing to criticize, how will anyone ever ever know if I am intelligent? - Unknown (at least I am for now ) ==== Subject: Re: Impossible to read?:) > Last day I downloaded the document programming in system RPL post script > version (because I couldn't read the PDF version), but when I decompressed it > I got an amazing file with 6 Mb and impossible to understand. Do I need any > kind of program to read it? Am I missing anything?) Once more, thank you very > much for your help. For PDF, you need the freeware Adobe Acrobat Reader. For Postscript, you need either a Postscript printer or the freeware GhostView/GhostScript. ==== Subject: Re: Impossible to read?:) x-no-archive: yes > Last day I downloaded the document programming in system RPL post script >version (because I couldn't read the PDF version), but when I decompressed it >I got an amazing file with 6 Mb and impossible to understand. Do I need any >kind of program to read it? Am I missing anything?) Once more, thank you very >much for your help. For PDF, you need the freeware Adobe Acrobat Reader. For Postscript, you need either a Postscript printer or the freeware > GhostView/GhostScript. Recent versions of ghostscript grok pdf as well as postscript. -- Steve ==== Subject: Re: Impossible to read?:) Where can you find GhostScript? ==== Subject: Re: Impossible to read?:) >Where can you find GhostScript? http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc.html Read RFC 1855. http://www.dejanews.com Learn how to news searches. http://www.yahoo.com/ Learn how to do software searches. http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost Guess for what this URL is. Randolph J. Herber, herber@dcdrjh.fnal.gov, +1 630 840 2966, CD/CDFTF PK-149F, Mail Stop 318, Fermilab, Kirk & Pine Rds., PO Box 500, Batavia, IL 60510-0500, USA. (Speaking for myself and not for US, US DOE, FNAL nor URA.) (Product, trade, or service marks herein belong to their respective owners.) ==== Subject: Re: Impossible to read?:) > Last day I downloaded the document programming in system RPL post script > version (because I couldn't read the PDF version), but when I decompressed it > I got an amazing file with 6 Mb and impossible to understand. Do I need any > kind of program to read it? Am I missing anything?) Once more, thank you very > much for your help. Try ghostscript. (gv if you have linux). http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/aladdin/get503.html -- Vesa-Matti Sarenius * - Am I a man or what? - A What!* mailto:sarenius@paju.oulu.fi * - What? - Yes, that's right! * Koskitie 47 A6 FIN-90500 OULU * * * * * http://www.student.oulu.fi/~sarenius * * * * * * * * * * hmmmm! * Finland, Europe. Tel. +358-8-342236 fax.+358-8-5305045. * * * * * * ==== Subject: Re: Impossible to read?:) pdf/acrobat was once an interesting idea, but is now simple bloatware. ----------- :: o ==== Subject: Re: Impossible to read?:) x-no-archive: yes > pdf/acrobat was once an interesting idea, but is now simple bloatware. > Dada indeed. > ----------- :: o > .---..-..-..-..-..-..-. . .-. .-. .-..-..-.. .-. > `| |'| || .` | > / / / / / | .` || | ) / > `-' `-'`-'`-' `-' `. ^ .' `--^--'`-'`-'`-'' `--^--' > Thinking Is The Enemy; Dada Your Way To Happiness! ==== Subject: critter chess xlib error For quite some time I've been playing with the idea of writing my own chess game viewer which would interface with Scribe to allow me to keep a library on my calc. To help with the programming, I was looking in the repository, and found critter mayhem chess, which is pretty close to what I'm looking for. However, it doesn't run on my calc. It gives me the error XLIB 1792 15 Error: undefined XLIB name. The error seems to occure in the title routine, but I'm not sure what's on the stack when the xlib command is executed, but it looks like it might be a program object. At a g, the relevant code looks like << .... << ... >> xlib 171 107 getc drop>>, but as I say, I haven't done any stack diagrams. What does xlib do? Is the error because I have an SX, not a G/GX? tmk -- -------------------- Ted Kostek kostek@ecn.purdue.edu http://widget.ecn.purdue.edu/~kostek ==== Subject: Re: critter chess xlib error > critter mayhem chess doesn't run on my calc. It gives me > the error XLIB 1792 15 Error: undefined XLIB name. > At a g, the relevant code looks like > << .... << ... >> xlib 171 107 getc drop> What does xlib do? Library functions are called using a 5.5-byte object called a ROMPTR, or XLIB Name; this object specifies the library number and the function number within the library. If the library is not installed (or if the object has no name), then the built-in decompiler (object displayer, which creates text corresponding to objects) shows XLIB lll fff instead; unfortunately, the built-in compiler does not recognize XLIB and will not re-construct library calls from numbers alone (it will complain about Invalid Syntax instead). > Is the error because I have an SX, not a G/GX? Yes, but I think it's not XLIB 1792 15 which is missing; what is actually missing, according to what you have shown above, is XLIB 171 107 (DOLIST); library 171 contains all the new G/GX user commands, and is not present in the S/SX. Various substitutes for such G/GX commands have been developed, and may be found at www.hpcalc.org; if any library version of these commands actually used library number 171 and corresponding function numbers, then merely installing the library might suffice; otherwise the existing calling programs would need to be modified. -------------- With best wishes from: John H Meyers ==== Subject: ROM dump help I just recently got the the program EMU48 and as you know it requires a rom dump. I have made several attempts at a rom dump but I have not been successful. If anybody has any tip, programs, or just knows how do a successful rom dump I would greatly appreciate the help. David Kirk dkirk@nfld.tds.net ==== Subject: Re: ROM dump help To make a rom dump, you need to be in Kermit mode, and then put your HP48 in Server mode. It took me about eight tries, and one locked up PC to do this. for me, but Dilbert, over in the next cubicle, would have a kinipshun. Fun to watch. ==== Subject: Re: ROM dump help If I remember correctly, the documentation for ROMDUMP suggest you need Kermit. At least a few have thought that -- however you don't. I think you just dump it out to a log file using something like ProComm or Telix (for the PC's). It's been a while but I think that's all I had to do. >To make a rom dump, you need to be in Kermit mode, and then put your HP48 in >Server mode. It took me about eight tries, and one locked up PC to do this. >for me, but Dilbert, over in the next cubicle, would have a kinipshun. Fun >to watch. ==== Subject: Re: ROM dump help I could never make a successful ROM dump. I eventually went to some portugese website (don't worry, I don't speak portugese either, but I could tell what it was) and download a version of EMU with the rom dump. I can't remember the address, although it might still be contained in the newsgroup....that was about a month ago though. ANyway, good luck! Jeremy ==== Subject: ROM Card Schematics/Layout Hi Has anybody ever self-built a ROM card for the HP48? It shouldn't be a Has anybody schematics or even layouts for a ROM card? Or any ideas, protection and using E2PROMs)? Matthias Fritschi ==== Subject: HP 48 Rom I'm trying to run EMUCE48 on WinCE HPC, but I need a rom (it's just for trying it. I'm not a pirate!!!). Can someone help me giving a HP48G rom ??? ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom I'm trying to run EMUCE48 on WinCE HPC, but I need a rom (it's just for > trying it. I'm not a pirate!!!). Can someone help me giving a HP48G rom ??? > > I see. I guess those guys in those ships with the skull and crossbones just wanted to `try' their victims money to see if it would spend properly... ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom > I see. I guess those guys in those ships with the skull and crossbones > just wanted to `try' their victims money to see if it would spend > properly... You know, I am increasing disillusioned with this modern propensity to equate destruction, rape and mass murder with the so-called theft of an intellectual property that can seldom be shown to have caused detectable financial harm, let alone anything like piracy. Shall we do with them what we did with pirate and let them swing by their necks from the highest yardarm? Shall we whip them around the fleet as an example to others? What say, fifty lashes at each ship, thirty or forty ships - of course, the evil perpetrator usually died after five or ten ships but this IS usenet, so beating dead things is very much our forte. -- .-. .-. .---. .---. .-..-. | Never, ever underestimate | |__ / | | |-< | |-< > / | the power of stupid people `----'`-^-'`-'`-'`-'`-' `-' | in large groups. My opinions only. | ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom > You know, I am increasing disillusioned with this > modern propensity to equate destruction, rape and mass > murder with the so-called theft of an intellectual > property that can seldom be shown to have caused > detectable financial harm, let alone anything like > piracy. Shall we do with them what we did with > pirate and let them swing by their necks from the > highest yardarm? Sounds good to me. That's what they're doing in China: China Sentences Hackers To Death For Bank Theft, see http://www.infowar.com/hacker/hack_122998a_j.shtml I also support the death penalty for treason, murder, rape, purjury, and abuse of power. There is no evidence that Bill Clinton is a software pirate. -Joe- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom Have you ever made a useful contribution to this NG, like a program test or a tip or something ? All I could see so far was arguing about cleared things. Maybe it gets better somehow Go ask the people at HP what they think about your intepretation of (copy-)rights. Sorry for my poor English - not my native language Raymond Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germanynet.de ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom Look, the issue has been argued over thousands of times on the net to no avail whatsoever. You, apparently, feel that it is ok to judge that the `owners rights' in this kind of case are insubstantial, and therefore _you_ can freely decide to trample on them. I, on the other hand, feel that the `owners rights' should not be trampled on by a self-serving decision, and that people who do so are `schlumps'. Any notion that I equated this `crime' with `... rape and mass murder ...' as you (with startling hyperbole, I guess) claimed is surely belied by your direct quote from what I said. Get real. You feel it is ok to steal something from somebody if _you_ decide that it really isn't very important to _them_. I don't. I don't think much of your attitude, but I certainly also _don't_ believe that you should be punished for having it. >I see. I guess those guys in those ships with the skull and crossbones >just wanted to `try' their victims money to see if it would spend >properly... You know, I am increasing disillusioned with this > modern propensity to equate destruction, rape and mass > murder with the so-called theft of an intellectual > property that can seldom be shown to have caused > detectable financial harm, let alone anything like > piracy. > ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom > Look, the issue has been argued over thousands of times on the net > to no avail whatsoever. You, apparently, feel that it is ok to judge > that the `owners rights' in this kind of case are insubstantial, and > therefore _you_ can freely decide to trample on them. And somehow in all those thousands of times you have failed to ever understand my position and insist upon ramming your damned strawman argu- ments down my throat. Copying a rom isn't a crime on par with murder, rape and pillaging. Period. In fact, on any scale of crime that even includes rape and murder, copying a rom doesn't even frigging register. Piracy is one of those emotionally loaded words designed to make people turn off their intellect and respond with pure emotion - which is exactly what you do, every damned time. And every time you do so it shows how severely out of kilter your ethics really are. It is illegal copying. Nothing more. Nothing less. Piracy is a crime committed on the high seas, not in an office cubical. Anyone who thinks otherwise has an ax to grind. -- .-. .-. .---. .---. .-..-. | Never, ever underestimate | |__ / | | |-< | |-< > / | the power of stupid people `----'`-^-'`-'`-'`-'`-' `-' | in large groups. My opinions only. | ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom If `Ignorance is bliss' you're undoubtedly very happy... > And somehow in all those thousands of times you > have failed to ever understand my position and > insist upon ramming your damned strawman argu- > ments down my throat. Copying a rom isn't a crime on par with murder, > rape and pillaging. Period. In fact, on any > ... I'm trying to run EMUCE48 on WinCE HPC, but I need a rom (it's just for > trying it. I'm not a pirate!!!). Can someone help me giving a HP48G rom ??? That's ilegal, Fred. :o) http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom > I'm trying to run EMUCE48 on WinCE HPC, but I need a rom (it's just for > trying it. I'm not a pirate!!!). Can someone help me giving a HP48G rom ??? Someone vastly more skilled than I ought to write a program that will load and run in the emulators, then package it up in the same format as the real HP48 rom image,that prints out BUY YOUR OWN! IT'S COPYRIGHTED! on the virtual HP48 screen, so we'd have something to give to people who ask for the rom image... Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR Control-G Consultants gleason@mwk.com ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom > Someone vastly more skilled than I ought to write a program that >will load and run in the emulators, then package it up in the same >format as the real HP48 rom image,that prints out BUY YOUR OWN! >IT'S COPYRIGHTED! on the virtual HP48 screen, so we'd have something >to give to people who ask for the rom image... Great idea! But wouldn't it be easier if someones asking for a Rom image, just to do this and send him a Rom image? BTW, the original poster didn't tell if he likes any pictures of Rom, or if he prefer's to get a specific image of one of the 7 hills Maybe one of our italian friends can help him out, because I have never been to Rom. BTW, in english Rom is spelled Rome :) Peter E-Mail: karpfenteich@gmx.de _______________________________ Do you know the great Frequently Asked Questions? http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/ and the superb HP48 Software Archive? http://www.hpcalc.org to look for *old* HP48 postings see http://www.dejanews.com ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom > Great idea! > But wouldn't it be easier if someones asking for a Rom image, just to > do this and send him a Rom image? > BTW, the original poster didn't tell if he likes any pictures of Rom, > or if he prefer's to get a specific image of one of the 7 hills > Maybe one of our italian friends can help him out, because I have > never been to Rom. BTW, in english Rom is spelled Rome :) > For an image of Rome, browse http://www.enjoyrome.com For a (fully legal) rom image, really, I don't know... enrico italy ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom >> Great idea! >> But wouldn't it be easier if someones asking for a Rom image, just to >> do this and send him a Rom image? >> BTW, the original poster didn't tell if he likes any pictures of Rom, >> or if he prefer's to get a specific image of one of the 7 hills >> Maybe one of our italian friends can help him out, because I have >> never been to Rom. >> >> BTW, in english Rom is spelled Rome :) >> For an image of Rome, browse http://www.enjoyrome.com >For a (fully legal) rom image, really, I don't know... I forgot to tell that Roma (italian) is spelled Rom in german. But back to the subject: since no one told the original poster (and I forgot to do so too :-( You can find the great and working utility: ROM Upload by Avenard in the PC files / Emulators section of hpcalc.org, which enables you to upload the ROM of a present HP48. Peter E-Mail: karpfenteich@gmx.de _______________________________ Do you know the great Frequently Asked Questions? http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/ and the superb HP48 Software Archive? http://www.hpcalc.org to look for *old* HP48 postings see http://www.dejanews.com ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom To tell you the truth, I've never been able to get the rom off my HP48 (i have a g and a gx) ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom seems someone did not read the docs Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germanynet.de ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom Me either, neither what ever. I own a GX and every ROM dump program I tried failed. I was able to find a web page with a ROM for download. It was even the same version as my own calc. Besides I didn't want to waste battery power waiting for the thing to upload. >To tell you the truth, I've never been able to get the rom off my HP48 (i have >a g and a gx) ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom I copied my own ROM from my GX, and tried to do the same to my cubicle neighbor (Dilbert's) 48S. An old one. I could get mine, but not his. Wazzup. ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom I did that exact thing. And I have two 48Gs. ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom well, a G and a GX ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom To tell you the truth, I've never been able to get the rom off my HP48 (i have > a g and a gx) did it on my first try, and without any problems I have a gx my secret ? Just read the documentation. www.hpcalc.org for both tools and documentation Jul ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom Most probably, my computer is to blame. First, I've only got 1 serial port...and I use a serial mouse, so I have to unplug the mouse to use the computer transfer cord. It also seems that there is something wrong with my serial port; it won't recognize mice very easily at all (I bought a new mouse and cannot use it with a PS/2 -> Serial adapter) So it's my computer rather than inadequecies in the documentation or otherwise. Jeremy ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom I'm trying to run EMUCE48 on WinCE HPC, but I need a rom (it's just for trying it. I'm not a pirate!!!). Can someone help me giving a HP48G rom ??? > Fred, In order to have a rom of a g/gx you have to own one. It is copyrighted by copyright laws. In order for you to get one without owning one you would be cosidered a pirate. It is definitely against the law. By the way there are several postings in this newsgroup regarding this matter. ==== Subject: Re: HP 48 Rom > In order to have a rom of a g/gx you have to own one. It is=20 copyrighted by > copyright laws. In order for you to get one without owning one you=20= would be > cosidered a pirate. It is definitely against the law. By the way there= =20 are > several postings in this newsgroup regarding this matter. Now, how can I get a ROM if I have a HP48? Is there a program to=20 download your own ROM? mpb ==== Subject: Apex Data Collection Software If anyone is interested in beta testing some land surveying data collection shareware which I have developed for the HP48GX the web site is at http://www.gwi.net/apex Bill Webber ==== Subject: connection to modem I notice that the HP's serial port contains only TD, RD, and SG. Is it possible to communicate with an external modem using only send and recieve or will any of the handshaking/data flow control pins be necessary? XON/XOFF is a data flow protocol that uses only TD and RD, isn't it? Will this be enough, and will the modem recognise this? Phil Cheney chihowa@null.net ==== Subject: Re: connection to modem CC: chihowa@null.net > I notice that the HP's serial port contains only TD, RD, and SG. Is > it possible to communicate with an external modem using only send and > receive or will any of the handshaking/data flow control pins be > necessary? XON/XOFF is a data flow protocol that uses only TD and RD, > isn't it? Will this be enough, and will the modem recognise this? Some modems allow hardware handshaking signals to be ignored; check your manual. To connect the HP48 and modem, you need a null modem adapter anyway; in addition to crossing over signal pins 2<->3, the adapter also attempts to supply the necessary hardware signals to indicate that both devices are ready, which may work anyway. Xon/Xoff uses ordinary data characters for data flow signals; both parties must be aware of the decision to use these characters. On the HP48, store { 9600 0 1 1 3 3 } into 'IOPAR' in HOME (the values 1 1 indicate the use of Xon/Xoff in both directions); also inform the party at the other end of the connection that Xon/Xoff is to be used (the modem itself may not care, because it is the other end which must decide to stop transmitting when your buffer is full, or vice-versa). -------------- With best wishes from: John H Meyers ==== Subject: About Xmodem... Distribution: inet I use to transfer large files from Hp to Hp using IR and Xmodem. Can somebody tell me how many bauds does it work? Is it bigger than 9600 bauds? _________________________________________ / T'ha escrit en Marc. | Te ha esrito Marc. | | You've been writen by Marc. | | si05614@salleurl.edu | | www.salleurl.edu/~si05614 | _________________________________________/ / / / / -(oo)- ->my mascot. ][ ==== Subject: Re: About Xmodem... On Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:51:50 +0000, Marc Albaladejo! : I use to transfer large files from Hp to Hp using IR and Xmodem. : Can somebody tell me how many bauds does it work? Is it bigger than 9600 : bauds? No, the IR interface is limited to 2400 bps (or below). But it's certainly faster than Kermit, probably even faster than Kermit at 9600 bps. Pete Commercial email sent to this address will be proofread ==== Subject: Re: what microprocessor is in the hp48g? Actually, BCD calculation is much easier to perform than any 'BCD' like where the mantissa contains the full digits in hexa, and usually faster. The problem with the TI89/92, is that the Motorola 68K can perform BCD calculation only in 8 bits mode (and they are using 80 bits internal accuracy). Therefore, it's not really a good choice for such kind of operation. The fact that BCD calculation takes slightly more space than an hexa complete representation doesn't really help on the speed point of view. Also, in a CAS system, a BCD internal representation really helps for several reasons, one of the most interesting is: - In a factorization, it is extremely simply to check in BCD if a number is a multiple of 2,5,10. It is also more simple (and faster) to calculate a square root in BCD. Globally, a BCD internal representation is MUCH faster than an hexa one. It may not be true on some examples (addition, multiplication) because you need to work on more digits, but it's not where the fastest speed is required (who performs an operation on 1000 digits numbers anyway ??). And that's why most of the CAS use a BCD internal representation. With a Saturn CPU, the use of BCD was even more obvious since it can perform a BCD calculation on 64 bits in one time Jean-Yves >> HP, TI, Casio.. all use BCD math: all outdated? Yep. Wasting memory and speed is today outdated :-) >In case of TI89/92 it is actually a CRIME :-) >Check specs of Motorola 68000 - TI92 CPU to compare power and speed >for BCD versus binary coding speed and you will know why. Today many CPU either ignore BCD or implement very slow, primitive subset >of BASIC BCD operations for die hard users. > The 'simpler to format' may be true, but is not the reason: HP has had >> a few calculators displaying polar numbers *in the display* while >> keeping the rectangular format in memory. And the switch from rect<->polar >> is computationally harder than BCD<->binary, yet can be done fast enough >> for the human eye not to notice. The delay of HP display is highly visible to the user even with BCD :-) >True, conversion is fast in reality but it does take time and memory. >I suspect, that BCD is dinosaur of the old calculator era, when every >byte of memory counted. HP28 - 48 had enough power to be binary but >it's designers probably just went the old way. > Now, I *would* like to see a new object type 'IEEE-754' single and double >> precision in 'the new HP'. IEEE-754 double precision takes 64 bits (the same >> as a BCD real on the 48), but offers almost 16 digits of precision, be it >> with a slightly reduced exponent range. >> Werner Huysegoms >> remove the x before replying Jack ==== Subject: Re: what microprocessor is in the hp48g? Actually, BCD calculation is much easier to perform than any 'BCD' like > where the mantissa contains the full digits in hexa, and usually faster. That is incoreect statement. BCD is performed internally in binary by the CPU micorcode. All logical electronic elements are by nature binary. That is exactly the reason why all suprcomputers are built around binary representation, not BCD. Jack ==== Subject: Cracked LCD OK, so what do I do now that the LCD is cracked? Someone gave me an HP48G with a cracked LCD display (they didn't want to deal with it). Is it worth it/possible to get it fixed? -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Douglas Cook - MCP, BYU ITC Web Programmer mailto:cookd@cs.byu.edu http://students.cs.byu.edu/~cookd/ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== Subject: Re: Cracked LCD It's more impractical than impossible. First, replacement LCDs aren't available as far as I know. Also, the 48 was never meant to be opened. It's very difficult to open without damage. If you send it in to HP to repair they will throw it away and send you a new one and charge you accordingly. ==== Subject: A simple (too?) question about reducing radicals (sqr of 8 is 2rad2) Howdy all. I've been trying to work through the code to reduce square roots that come out as long strings od decimals, to no avail. If anyone has some ==== Subject: Re: A simple (too?) question about reducing radicals (sqr of 8 is 2rad2) QPI, on hpcalc.org does a fine job, as does EXHackt ==== Subject: EQStk - new version including 7 level interactive stack Hi to all, the subject says it all: Matias Mutchinick has added a 7 level interactive stack to the great stack replacement EQStk 9.1. Mika gave his permission to modify his sources as long as the different version is clearly marked as a modified version. Due to the lack of time of Matias I have updated the docs and we hope the added feature will find some friends :-) Oh, not to forget EQStk7+ (that's the name of the modified version) will be available soon at Eric's site hpcalc.org. I have sent the files to him already. Peter E-Mail: karpfenteich@gmx.de _______________________________ Do you know the great Frequently Asked Questions? http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/ and the superb HP48 Software Archive? http://www.hpcalc.org to look for *old* HP48 postings see http://www.dejanews.com ==== Subject: Re: EQStk - new version including 7 level interactive stack Oh, not to forget EQStk7+ (that's the name of the modified version) > will be available soon at Eric's site hpcalc.org. I have sent the > files to him already. > Well done! I'm already looking forward to downloading it. Stephan -- Stephan Kaemper Mail: skaemper@physik.uni-bremen.de Universitaet Bremen / FB 1 Tel.: (49) 421 / 218-2931 Abt. Tracer-Ozeanographie Fax.: (49) 421 / 218-7018 Postfach 330440 _____|____|____|______ --------- /--------- ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^ ^^ ^^^^ ^^^ ==== Subject: hp48g I'm thinking of buying a 48 Does the hp48g handle multiple regression? ==== Subject: Re: hp48g There is a downloadable program, RAS, that is a very nice implementation of multiple regression. I think you can find it in the HP software archive, Hpcalc.org. >I'm thinking of buying a 48 Does the hp48g handle multiple regression? > ==== Subject: Re: hp48g No. Simple linear only. ==== Subject: Simple question How can my HP48G solve a matrice step-by-step (row-operation)?? ==== Subject: Re: Simple question >How can my HP48G solve a matrice step-by-step (row-operation)?? The 48G has the elementary row operations built in, MTH key followed by MATRX and ROW softkeys, or 10.01 MENU brings you to the matrix row operations softkeys. RCI, RCIJ and on next page RSWP. RCI: Matrix on level 3 constant on level 2 and row on level 1 and RCI multiplies row by constant. RCIJ: Matrix on level 4, constant on level 3, source row on level 2, target row on level 1 and RCIJ adds constant times source row to target row. RSWP: Press NXT key to get RSWP softkey. Matrix on level 3, row numbers on levels 2 and 1 and RSWP swaps rows. -- ==== Subject: 7 data bits Is there any way for the HP48 to communicate with another hardware device using 7 data bits instead of 8?  Will I have to resort to machine language or is even that possible.  I haven't been able to find any information on this.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Bill
  ==== Subject: Re: static build up > Has anyone ever had a problem with static build up in their 48gx, causing it > to lose all its memory and does anyone know how to stop this from happening. > How do you know it is static buildup? What are the symptoms? On my first HP48GX, I lost memory occasionally, sometimes recoverable. I suspected a problem in the battery power supply and got it exchanged under warranty. I have not had any problems ever since. Is that similar to the symptoms on yours? Nikolaus ==== Subject: MSOLVR made even easier! Have you ever used the command MSOLVR in HP48G series? It's a great tool to create multiple equations solving environments. But it is a mess to set it up. But now I've made an easy and fast application to create MSOLVR programs. MSOLVR Program Maker 1.2 Now it includes three new great features which allow you to choose whether to type or not the equations and whether to use or not units and whether to erase or not the EQ var. Try it out! http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/HPlus/zips/msolvr12.zip Want to see an example of a MSOLVR program made with MSOLVR Program Maker 1.2? Check out this one! http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/HPlus/zips/transfoideal.zip http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: 48GX LCD is disappointing I have always loved HP calculators, and just decided to buy a 48GX. I was disappointed in the LCD display....there always seems to be a greyish background, unless I lighten up the contrast to the point where the text almost disappears. And no conrast setting works well to view the display when the calculator is on the desk a foot or two in front of me. I looked at another unit in the store and it seemed the same (even the picture on the front of the box shows the dark background). Anyone else have problems with this? - Barry -- Dr. Barry Megdal SHB Instruments, Inc. Dept. of Electical Engineering Caltech 136-93 Pasadena, CA 91125 ==== Subject: Re: 48GX LCD is disappointing I have always loved HP calculators, and just decided to buy a 48GX. I > was disappointed in the LCD display....there always seems to be a > greyish background, unless I lighten up the contrast to the point where > the text almost disappears. And no conrast setting works well to view > the display when the calculator is on the desk a foot or two in front of > me. I looked at another unit in the store and it seemed the same (even the > picture on the front of the box shows the dark background). Anyone else > have problems with this? - Barry -- > Dr. Barry Megdal SHB Instruments, Inc. > Dept. of Electical Engineering > Caltech 136-93 > Pasadena, CA 91125 I have to position the calculator just the right way when I am at a desk office or home)if I want to see the screen correctly, regardless of the contrast setting. It is frustrating. I think an improvement (perhaps for the next hp) would be a screen that is not parallel to the rest of the calculator face (as it is now), but tilted up a bit. Even better would be one that you could flip back and forth to tilted/parallel. ==== Subject: Re: 48GX LCD is disappointing > I have always loved HP calculators, and just decided to buy a 48GX. I > was disappointed in the LCD display....there always seems to be a > greyish background, unless I lighten up the contrast to the point where > the text almost disappears. And no conrast setting works well to view > the display when the calculator is on the desk a foot or two in front of > me. I looked at another unit in the store and it seemed the same (even the > picture on the front of the box shows the dark background). Anyone else > have problems with this? I have both the 48g and gx, neither one has what you discribed. I can see the display from any angle. I have never had any problems with the screen. In fact I thought it was a very good display until I read your post. Gary Wiese http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: 48GX LCD is disappointing >I have always loved HP calculators, and just decided to buy a 48GX. I >was disappointed in the LCD display....there always seems to be a >greyish background, unless I lighten up the contrast to the point where otoh, I've more or less had the opposite reaction ... I've found my 48GX (rev R) to have one of the best display (if not the best) contrast of any of the large screen calcs! Comparatively, I just picked up my 48SX again, and can't believe I lived with THAT bad a LCD for so long! At any rate, for desktop use, putting the 48GX on an angled stand improves readability tremendously, otherwise my eye-level needs to be > than 45 degrees to achieve optimum contrast. Anyways, imo in comparison: * TI92 - Big screen, but TERRIBLE contrast/readability in all but the best lighting & viewing angle. Although the cover serves as a angle stand, lighting HAS to be from the read/top to avoid any shadows. * TI8x series (not including 89) - all are quite viewing-angle dependent * HP42, 17BII, 19BII - surprisingly low LCD contrast; pity HP hasn't updated the LCD's * HP32SII - need to adjust contrast quite frequently to get the best contrast, otherwise it spots a wonderful display I've found an interesting phenomenon y'all can try with the 48GX display (or any other LCD displays); on a cloudless evening twilight, step outside with your calc and notice the colour and contrast of the display as you rotate about your own axis (iow, point the calc in different directions, North, East, etc.) You'll notice that at right angles with West (where the sun just set) the display turns a beautiful high-contrast blue/light-gray. In effect you've viewing the display with polarized light. my 2 cents, Peter Khor ==== Subject: Re: 48GX LCD is disappointing > * HP42, 17BII, 19BII - surprisingly low LCD contrast; > pity HP hasn't updated the LCD's > * HP32SII - need to adjust contrast quite frequently to get > the best contrast, otherwise it spots a wonderful display Okay, try an HP18C (same as HP19B/28S screen size); mine is crystal clear and sharp, never any shadow; the only lesser quality was that contrast changed a bit more with changing vertical rotation angle. My old Sharp 8000 (large screen) Wizard was also amazingly sharp and clear, and did not even need (or have) any contrast adjustment! Differences in supposedly same models can arise from a switch in suppliers, however, as well as a possible switch in specs and price (ask the engineers, if any cares to not speak for HP :) > my 2 cents Accounting for inflation (and the current P/E of the DJIA), that should be worth about $23.72 by now. -------------- With best wishes from: John H Meyers ==== Subject: Re: 48GX LCD is disappointing Peter, You can observe the same phenomenon by wearing a pair of sunglasses (the polarising kind) and then rotating the calc. Philip > I've found an interesting phenomenon y'all can try with the 48GX display (or > any other LCD displays); on a cloudless evening twilight, step outside with > your calc and notice the colour and contrast of the display as you rotate > about your own axis (iow, point the calc in different directions, North, > East, etc.) You'll notice that at right angles with West (where the sun > just set) the display turns a beautiful high-contrast blue/light-gray. In > effect you've viewing the display with polarized light. my 2 cents, Peter Khor ==== Subject: Re: 48GX LCD is disappointing >Peter, >You can observe the same phenomenon by wearing a pair of sunglasses (the >polarising kind) and then rotating the calc. >Philip >> I've found an interesting phenomenon y'all can try with the 48GX display (or >> any other LCD displays); on a cloudless evening twilight, step outside with polarized or circular? - anyways the outdoor effect is much more pronounce and unreal. This reminds me of an old 'hack' that we use to do on Casio calcs; the display window not only protects the glass LCD, it's also the polarizer. Take that out, the only way to see the display was to wear a pair of polarizers, OR flip it around and you get a white-on-black LCD - great only in direct lighting. Peter Khor ==== Subject: Re: 48GX LCD is disappointing Peter, You can observe the same phenomenon by wearing a pair of sunglasses (the polarising kind) and then rotating the calc. Philip > I've found an interesting phenomenon y'all can try with the 48GX display (or > any other LCD displays); on a cloudless evening twilight, step outside with > your calc and notice the colour and contrast of the display as you rotate > about your own axis (iow, point the calc in different directions, North, > East, etc.) You'll notice that at right angles with West (where the sun > just set) the display turns a beautiful high-contrast blue/light-gray. In > effect you've viewing the display with polarized light. my 2 cents, Peter Khor ==== Subject: Re: 48GX LCD is disappointing NNTP-Posting-User: dpeschel >picture on the front of the box shows the dark background). Anyone else >have problems with this? Yes. Actually my vision is so bad that I'd prefer a luminescent (not backlit) display, but that's not likely to happen in a battery-powered gadget. As it is, the G(X)'s screen is generally held as being better than the S(X)'s. So in a sense you're lucky. (I'm not; I have an S.) -- Derek ==== Subject: Re: 48GX LCD is disappointing > Anyone else have problems with this? Me. It is something you have to accept with christian resignation. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: 48GX LCD is disappointing The 48 LCD just doesn't have much contrast. It's something you have to learn to live with. Or not. It bothered me a lot at first but I've grown accustomed to finding the best angle without even thinking about it. Putting it on a desk and using it isn't something I do, although I would if that were practical. At work I had a calculator stand that was steeper than most, about 35 or 40 degrees. That helped a lot, but someone walked off with it and i haven't looked for another one. Barry >I have always loved HP calculators, and just decided to buy a 48GX. I >was disappointed in the LCD display....there always seems to be a >greyish background, unless I lighten up the contrast to the point where >the text almost disappears. And no conrast setting works well to view >the display when the calculator is on the desk a foot or two in front of >me. I looked at another unit in the store and it seemed the same (even the >picture on the front of the box shows the dark background). Anyone else >have problems with this? - Barry -- >Dr. Barry Megdal SHB Instruments, Inc. >Dept. of Electical Engineering >Caltech 136-93 >Pasadena, CA 91125 ==== Subject: Re: 48GX LCD is disappointing On Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:35:44 -0800, Barry Megdal was disappointed in the LCD display....there always seems to be a >greyish background, unless I lighten up the contrast to the point where >the text almost disappears. And no conrast setting works well to view >the display when the calculator is on the desk a foot or two in front of >me. I looked at another unit in the store and it seemed the same (even the >picture on the front of the box shows the dark background). Anyone else >have problems with this? Unfortunately yes! The problem is the relative dark background wich reduces the contrast. Another problem is that the backround is to far away from the liquid crystals and therefore you get very annoying shadows, when the light source is in front of you (like a desktop lamp) and you try to view the LCD from an angle (like it is, when you place the calc on the desktop). There's no real solution. I try to look straight on the calc to avoid the shadows and place the desktop lamp as near to me, as it's possible. Try to take a look onto the calc rectangular (holding it in the hand) when the light source is just above your head and the light comes from nearly the same direction as your point of view. Then the LCD is very clear. But you're true: Often the contrast is poor, especially in the described situations. To play around with the contrast settings helps only a little bit. BTW, on my desktop I also have an HP32SII just lying beside me to do some number crunching. The 32SII is bested viewed under an angle and is so much better to read (when viewed not rectangular) then the HP48..... I take the HP48 only, when the 32 can't do the job. To be true: I think I only will buy a successor of the HP48 if the display will have a better contrast (and therefore will not be in colour like those bad viewed Casios and when the display can be viewed under a wider angle then the 48 allows now. Peter E-Mail: karpfenteich@gmx.de _______________________________ Do you know the great Frequently Asked Questions? http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/ and the superb HP48 Software Archive? http://www.hpcalc.org to look for *old* HP48 postings see http://www.dejanews.com ==== Subject: Downloading help needed I'm using the HP transfer kit to download, no problem there but some of the programs are not working Ie. a fullscreen clock and calender. Their saying something about assigning a variable. Also is there a way to delete a library I no longer want. Cliff ==== Subject: evaluating elements in the CST menu I had a bunch of routines in a directory that I used quite often. To make it a bit easier to use them I created a custom menu. Gradually the custom menu got fancier and fancier as I added features ( commonly known as creeping featurism ). By this time the functions were getting in the way of the variables they were manipulating so I decided to embed them directly in the custom menu. This worked out pretty good but there was a slight hitch ... if I needed to run one of the programs, usually with some non-standard inpute, it was a bit of a pain because I had to first extract it from the CST menu. After thinking about that I came up with the following program I call XCST for 'eXecute CST'. Given an index into the CST and an offset into that element it'll extract the element then use the offset to extract the unshifted, left-shifted or right-shifted item and evaluate it. A glorified version of doing: << -> index offset << CST index GET 2 GET offset GET EVAL >> I don't use the above because it doesn't work in all cases. The problem is that menu items have a variety of forms. If you had a CST that looked like: { A { B << ... >> } { C { << ... >> << ... >> << ... >> } } } you have to be a little more careful. After a while it became bothersome tracking the index into the CST menu. This was especially true if you added a few things at the front which shifted everything else down a couple of spots. To get around this the index can be either a numeric index or an object. If it's a number then the program uses the index along with a GET command to extract the menu item. If it's an object then the program searches through CST looking for the entry that matches then extracts the unshifted, left-shift or right-shifted item and evaluates it. Using the above CST as an example. 1 any XCST or 'A' any XCST Would result in 'A' being evaluated. 2 any XCST or 'B' any XCST would result in the program in the 'B' menu item being evaluated. 3 1 XCST or 'C' 1 XCST would evaluate the unshifted program of the 'C' item while 3 2 XCST or 'C' 2 XCST would evaluate the left-shifted program of the 'C' item and finally 3 3 XCST or 'C' 3 XCST would evaluate the right-shifted program of the 'C' item. If you have any comments let me know ... BYTES: # 1C73h / 408.5 %%HP: T(3)A(D)F(.); << IFERR 'CST' RCL THEN No CST variable DOERR END -> l n c << IF l TYPE 0 == THEN c l GET IF DUP TYPE 5 == THEN 2 GET IF DUP TYPE 5 == THEN n GET EVAL ELSE EVAL END ELSE EVAL END ELSE 1 c SIZE FOR i c i GET IF DUP TYPE 5 == THEN 2 GET IF DUP TYPE 5 == THEN n GET EVAL ELSE EVAL END c SIZE 'i' STO ELSE DROP END ELSE EVAL c SIZE 'i' STO ELSE DROP END END NEXT END >> >> -- ==== Subject: Re: evaluating elements in the CST menu > By this time the functions were getting in the way of the variables they >were manipulating so I decided to embed them directly in the custom menu. >This worked out pretty good but there was a slight hitch ... if I needed to >run one of the programs, usually with some non-standard inpute, it was a >bit of a pain because I had to first extract it from the CST menu. A possibly easier way to deal with the problem is to put the functions in a higher directory along with the CST list and put the variables by themselves in a subdirectory, and do your work in the subdirectory. higher directory, including all of the functions, as long as the subdirectory does not have its own CST list. with none of the function names visible in the VAR menu. To edit a function, you will have to go up one directory, then back down to work with the variables. -- ==== Subject: Kermit and grob Help here! How does Kermit works and how is organized the grob files, i mean how can i interpretate this GROB 11 11 0001000... plese Help http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: xgcc cross-c-compiler for windows95 problem i just downloaded the xgcc c cross-compiler for windows 95, which creates hp48g(x) binaries. though, when i try to compile a .cpp file using the following command line: C:usrsrc>xgcc -O2 -I c:usrsaturn-local-hp-48include test.cpp i get the this error: xgcc.exe: installation problem, cannot exec `cc1plus': No such file or directory (ENOENT) now, any of you guys know what this mean and what i can do to make the compiler work? per nilsson ==== Subject: Re: xgcc cross-c-compiler for windows95 problem > i just downloaded the xgcc c cross-compiler for windows 95, which > creates hp48g(x) binaries. > though, when i try to compile a .cpp file using the following command > line: > C:usrsrc>xgcc -O2 -I c:usrsaturn-local-hp-48include test.cpp i get the this error: > xgcc.exe: installation problem, cannot exec `cc1plus': No such file or > directory > (ENOENT) Altough I never used this xgcc program, cc1plus is the C++ pre-processor, the program that handles the #include, #define, #if, etc. If the xgcc package did not come with one, you must get one somewhere. Any one should work, however I«d recommend the free DJ Delorie«s port of gcc (and friends) to DOS. Go to http://www.delorie.com/djgpp . Eduardo M Kalinowski mailto:ekalin@iname.com http://move.to/hp48g ICQ 10944368 http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: HP48GX+manual for sale I don't know how useful it'll be to try and sell a HP48GX on a newsgroup where presumably almost everyone has one, but as the subject line says, I've got one for sale. I bought a TI-89, and my 48 has been languishing for a while now, so I thought I'd try and find it a new home. The calculator is like new, no dings, no chew marks. Comes with original case and manual. Selling for $100 OBO. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: HP48GX+manual for sale Sacrificing the HP for TI89? Sacrilege.... :-) Jeremy ==== Subject: Re: xgcc cross-c-compiler for windows95 problem i just downloaded the xgcc c cross-compiler for windows 95, which > creates hp48g(x) binaries. > though, when i try to compile a .cpp file using the following command > line: > C:usrsrc>xgcc -O2 -I c:usrsaturn-local-hp-48include test.cpp i get the this error: > xgcc.exe: installation problem, cannot exec `cc1plus': No such file or > directory Do you have djgpp (gcc) installed on your computer ? You need it in order to compile any program. Jul ==== Subject: Re: Serial connection or parallel connection ???? I am having a problem...My old laptop' serial port is dead and I was > wondering if I could connect my HP48 to the parallel port...I have no > IR port... > You simply need a serial-parallel converter. I think you can buy it in some computer shop (radioshack?), or you could build it from yourself. I'm sure harris corp. have a single chip for the P/S and S/P conversions (for example, hd-6204). Then you only need a oscillator and some R/Cs. http://www.harris.semi.com to get the correct chip ID and download the pdf manuals. enrico ==== Subject: New EQSTK Unuseable with DOS I thought I'd try out the new EQSTK with the interactive stack, but the library filename contains a + symbol. That's what DOS uses as a command to concatenate files, so PKUNZIP won't extract the library. PKUNZIP also seems to lack a Rename feature. Anybody know any workarounds? Bill -- - Bill Markwick, Toronto, Ontario, Canada - bd628@torfree.net ==== Subject: Re: New EQSTK Unzip-able with DOS > PKUNZIP won't extract a file with an illegal (8+3) DOS name > (or illegal character, e.g. +) Anybody know any workarounds? Use a DOS hex editor (e.g. hexed.exe) to change the file names within the zip archive (null padding may work to shorten names, if necessary). I vaguely recall doing this to unzip some of Andre's as... zip files, which contain an occasional long file name. -------------- With best wishes from: John H Meyers http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: New EQSTK Unuseable with DOS Hi Bill, >I thought I'd try out the new EQSTK with the interactive stack, but the >library filename contains a + symbol. That's what DOS uses as a command >to concatenate files, so PKUNZIP won't extract the library. PKUNZIP also >seems to lack a Rename feature. Sorry! I forgot that 8.3/special_sign_problem with PKUNZIP under Dos. I'll make a new Dos compatible zip file and e-mail it to you and I'll send Eric this version too. Hope this helps. Sorry for the inconvenience. Peter E-Mail: karpfenteich@gmx.de _______________________________ Do you know the great Frequently Asked Questions? http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/ and the superb HP48 Software Archive? http://www.hpcalc.org to look for *old* HP48 postings see http://www.dejanews.com ==== Subject: Serial connection or parallel connection ???? I am having a problem...My old laptop' serial port is dead and I was wondering if I could connect my HP48 to the parallel port...I have no IR port... Any suggestions ??? Thanx, Martin ==== Subject: Re: Serial connection or parallel connection ???? Martin, whose serial port is terminally ill, asked: > I was wondering if I could connect my HP48 to the parallel port Sorry, no. Serial means that all the bits are sent, one at a time, over only one wire; parallel means that a whole byte is sent at a time, using eight wires; other control signals are also completely different. Besides this, not many Terminal programs have been written to talk to the parallel port, either. However, if you want to modify a Colorado [HP] brand external tape backup device to write to the HP48 instead of to the tape... -------------- With best wishes from: John H Meyers ==== Subject: TDS 128k ram card dead? I have a Tripod Data Systems 128k ram card which has been in a 48SX for about 6 years. I posted a question, about the card needing a battery every two weeks, about two or three months ago. I got a few replies that the SX was causing the problem. So, I got a GX...same problem. It seems that the card has gone south. My new question is, can the card be repaired or should it be trashed? If it can be repaired, how so? It seems analogous to the zenner diode problem on the calc. Is there a zennner diode on the card? BV ==== Subject: Re: Which HP48 to buy? If you need more than a TI-86, definately go with the G+ or the Gx. These will [legally] give you enough internal ram to do anything. If cost is an issue an you dont think you'll be expanding go with the g+. But if you really want to have no limits go with the GX. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: Which HP48 to buy? Really, though, I would wait until the new HP calc comes out. Why drop $200 (american) on a GX if it will e superseded in months? Jeremy ==== Subject: Re: Which HP48 to buy? > Really, though, I would wait until the new HP calc comes > out. Why drop $200 (american) on a GX if it will e > superseded in months? Excellent point. I have been considering getting a 48 GX, but now I have been reading some postings (such as the one I am replying to) that indicate there is a new model due out soon. Does anyone know any more about that, such as, how soon? and what will be better about it than the 48 GX? -Trevis Rothwell tjr@acm.org ==== Subject: Re: Which HP48 to buy? >Really, though, I would wait until the new HP calc comes out. Why drop $200 >(american) on a GX if it will e superseded in months? Maybe because there are LOADS of sofware for HP48 already? So why would you wait for something wonderful like Java, Erable , Csim ? Ok, that's just my opinion :) Stipe ==== Subject: Re: Which HP48 to buy? I was a little bit hypocritical too, truthfully, because I just bought a GX....but that was before I knew the new HP would be out soon. I probably would have bought it anyway, though :-) Jeremy ==== Subject: Erable and MK Couple of things: 1)Meta Kernel and Erable work wonderfully together, and I would like to thank both of their authors. After downloading Erable to my GX I have been left that the EQSTK and UFL libraries are not necessary, this is only because Meta Kernal allows for equations to be viewed on the stack as pretty print, and the UFL seems to do the same thing as Meta Kernels built-in fonts. Do these libraries function in anything other than the obvious? Is it ok to purge them to give my some breathing room? 2)Whenever I enter a symbolic infinity, under the MK and Erable libraries, garbage fills up the area that labels which stack I'm on (1-7 in font6) and somethimes right above it. Im also interested in purchasing a non hp-approved (gasp) card. Can I get some feedback on the certain risks that I will be taking in doing this? danke sch.9an Sharif Murphy sharifmurphy@ameritech.net http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: plotting program Does anyone know of a plotting program that will replace the built-in one for the GX....that wont crash my GX. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: plotting program There are lots of plot replacements at hp.calc.org, none of which are bullet proof. Speedgraph works well for functions. But why worry so much about crashing? Save your programs, put on your seat belt and RIDE! Dennis ==== Subject: Alg48 Front End Is there any way to make a front end for Alg48 like there is in Erable? (the menu system based on the math key) What programming does it involve? And Also, I'm having trouble assigning 'X' to the delete key like it is in Erable. Don't know why, I just can't do it. Anyone who uses a front end for Alg48 that they found somewhere or that they created themselves, could they explain it, how they did, and if they think it's Jeremy ==== Subject: Java v. Other Stacks What makes Java so much better than other stack programs? Why should I use the 24k java36c requires when I can use EQstack or HPSauce for less memory? Jeremy ==== Subject: Re: Java v. Other Stacks >What makes Java so much better than other stack programs? Why should I use the >24k java36c requires when I can use EQstack or HPSauce for less memory? Hi Jeremy, it depends if you want to have a 7 level stack (EQStk) or a 5 level stack (Java). Also there's a difference, that you can scroll large objects with Java, which is a pretty nice feature. I personally like EQStk better, because I love to have a bigger stack area and don't need a status area. (I use some UserKeys to show me the change between RAD/DEG and so on). In addition I had some problems Java is running pretty stable, but EQStk is running really stable. To scroll large objects I use the viewer VV which is included in the TED (editor) library. This solution works very good for me. But Java is a bit more integrated and if you like it's features this could be the stack replacement for you. Also Java offers a new DECOMP routine which speeds up the use of the interactive stack and other things very much. This is a very neat feature, but had the most problems in the last time. I'm not sure if all bugs are found now. As often in life: There are many choices. It's up to you which way you want to go :-) Peter E-Mail: karpfenteich@gmx.de _______________________________ Do you know the great Frequently Asked Questions? http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/ and the superb HP48 Software Archive? http://www.hpcalc.org to look for *old* HP48 postings see http://www.dejanews.com ==== Subject: Re: Java v. Other Stacks >What makes Java so much better than other stack programs? Why should I use the >>24k java36c requires when I can use EQstack or HPSauce for less memory? Hi Jeremy, >it depends if you want to have a 7 level stack (EQStk) or a 5 level >stack (Java). >Also there's a difference, that you can scroll large objects with >Java, which is a pretty nice feature. I personally like EQStk better, because I love to have a bigger stack >area and don't need a status area. (I use some UserKeys to show me the >change between RAD/DEG and so on). In addition I had some problems >Java is running pretty stable, but EQStk is running really stable. >To scroll large objects I use the viewer VV which is included in the >TED (editor) library. This solution works very good for me. But Java is a bit more integrated and if you like it's features this >could be the stack replacement for you. Also Java offers a new DECOMP >routine which speeds up the use of the interactive stack and other >things very much. This is a very neat feature, but had the most >problems in the last time. I'm not sure if all bugs are found now. The best way to decide what you like it just to try them all for a while, and see which suites your needs best. The source for Java and EQSTK is readily available, and you're free to compile your own custom library for personal use. This way you can remove features you don't need, or mix and match things like status area's etc... It's virtually impossible for us to provide combinations to suit everyone, so we leave this option open for those that wish to experiment. Good luck -- Andre Schoorl PGP key available on request/keyserver Comp Engineering, UVic, Canada Linux/HP48 http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/ ==== Subject: Re: 48GX LCD is disappointing X-Added: With Flames (outnews v2.6) > I have always loved HP calculators, and just decided to buy a 48GX. I > was disappointed in the LCD display....there always seems to be a > greyish background, unless I lighten up the contrast to the point where > the text almost disappears. And no conrast setting works well to view > the display when the calculator is on the desk a foot or two in front of > me. I looked at another unit in the store and it seemed the same (even the > picture on the front of the box shows the dark background). Anyone else > have problems with this? I'd rather have an hp48 that's a little tough to read in bright harsh light than a TI-86 or 87 or whatever they're on now. The contrast doesn't bother me, but maybe I'm used to it. Speaking of which, it's been what, at least 5 years since the GX... when do we get something cooler? I'm thinking a decent strongarm and a 16meg ram chip would fit really nicely in the HP48gx case... ...and of course an improvement in the screen would be nice... Justin gates@microsoft.com njobs@fggm.osis.gov abuse@acq.osd.mil abuse@lanl.gov president@whitehouse.com | vice.president@whitehouse.gov abuse@home.com | abuse@netcom.com | abuse@aol.com | abuse@hotmail.com ==== Subject: HP48 ROM image here Because of all the requests, I put a HP48 ROM image on my web page. http://www.rollanet.org/~khigh01/hp48rom.htm ==== Subject: Re: HP48 ROM image here But you didn't tell me if it was for a G, GX, S, SX or what. No wonder I have such trouble with EMU 48. I might say that I ended up scratching my screen, though, when I tried to scrape the image off so that I could `download' it... Do you know any source for screen polish? Because of all the requests, I put a HP48 ROM image on my web page. http://www.rollanet.org/~khigh01/hp48rom.htm ==== Subject: Re: HP48 ROM image here >Because of all the requests, I put a HP48 ROM image on my web page. http://www.rollanet.org/~khigh01/hp48rom.htm I downloaded the rom image from your site and tried to use it in emu48 but I can't seem to make it work. When I load emu48 it just laughs. Any suggestions? Barry ==== Subject: Re: HP48 ROM image here > Because of all the requests, I put a HP48 ROM image on my web page. http://www.rollanet.org/~khigh01/hp48rom.htm asks for a ROM image we can tell them where to go (as it were). -Joe- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: HP48 ROM image here >Because of all the requests, I put a HP48 ROM image on my web page. >http://www.rollanet.org/~khigh01/hp48rom.htm Hehe, not bad = ==== Subject: Re: HP48 ROM image here >Because of all the requests, I put a HP48 ROM image on my web page. http://www.rollanet.org/~khigh01/hp48rom.htm You're funny.... Top ==== Subject: Re: HP48 ROM image here > Because of all the requests, I put a HP48 ROM image on my web page. http://www.rollanet.org/~khigh01/hp48rom.htm Good Work! ==== Subject: Re: HP48 ROM image here LOL Steven Ripp skrev i meddelelsen <36F15901.472A31E3@ses.curtin.edu.au>... > Because of all the requests, I put a HP48 ROM image on my web page. >> http://www.rollanet.org/~khigh01/hp48rom.htm Good Work! > ==== Subject: Re: HP48 ROM image here Hi- I think that you should go view the image! Tom Cadwallader themuncher@mcn.net >LOL Steven Ripp skrev i meddelelsen <36F15901.472A31E3@ses.curtin.edu.au>... >>> Because of all the requests, I put a HP48 ROM image on my web page. >>>> http://www.rollanet.org/~khigh01/hp48rom.htm >>Good Work! > > ==== Subject: Alg48tls I download some tools for Alg48 (alg48tls) from www.hpcalc.org. Unfortunately, the documentation is in French. Perhaps some kind soul wouldn't mind translating what these 6 programs do...not necessarily the whole doc, but just Jeremy ALG48 Tools v1.0: Il s'agit de six utilitaires destines a rendre votre hp48 encore plus puissante, et bien entendu dans un environnement convivial... Ces six programmes sont: Fact: un petit programme qui vous calculera la factiorelle de tout nombre naturel (n!), et ceci avec une precision infinie !! Le programme est tout a fait utilisable jusqu'a 300 sur une HP48 standard (apres, ca devient long a calculer). Ce programme prend un argument, qui est n, et renvoie n! sous forme de chaine de caracteres. Il retourne une erreur si l'argument n'est pas un nombre reel. dot: un petit programme qui vous calculera le produit scalaire de deux vecteurs. Ce programme reconnait a la fois les vecteurs bidimensionnels et tridimensionnels, en fait un vecteur bidimensionnel, par exemple {x y} est considere comme {x y 0}. Les vecteurs peuvent etre represente par des matrices (comme pour la fonction DOT fournie d'origine par HP) ou par des listes pouvant contenir des fractions, des expressions symboliques... Ce programme prend deux arguments, les deux pouvant etre soit des listes de 2 ou 3 elements, soit des matrices de 2 ou 3 .8el.8ements, et renvoie un nombre reel ou une expression symbolique correspondant au produit scalaire des 2 vecteurs. Par exemple, avec: {x1 y1 z1} et {x2 y2 z2} en argument, il renvoie 'x1*x2+y1*y2+z1*z2' Cross: ce programme se comporte exactement de la meme maniere que dot, a l'exception pres qu'il renvoie le produit vectoriel des deux vecteurs donnes en argument. Par exemple avec {x1 y1 z1} et {x2 y2 z2} en arguments il renvoie {'y1*z2-y2*z1' '-x1*z2+x2*z1' 'x1*y2-x2*y1'} qui represente bien sur le vecteur egal au produit vectoriel des deux vecteurs donnes en argument. Norme: ce programme prend en argument un vecteur sous la forme d'une liste ou d'une matrice de deux ou trois elements et renvoie la norme du vecteur correspondant. Par exemple, si on prend {x1 y1} en argument, on obtient alors comme resultat SQRT(x1Ó+y1Ó) ou SQRT est bien evidemment remplace par le signe de la racine carree sur votre HP. Varal: ce programme est dedie a vous simplifier la tache dans le calcul de probabilites concernant les variables aleatoires. Il prend en argument un entier (reel) correspondant au nombre de cas possibles et vous amene alors a un ecran de saisie convivial, ou vous saisirez dans la premiere ligne les differentes valeurs de xi possibles et dans la deuxieme ligne les valeurs de P(X=xi) correspondantes. Ce programme calcule ensuite l'esperance mathematique, la variance et l'ecart type qu'il donne sous leur forme exacte et simplifiee, bien entendu. SysSolve: ce programme fournit un environnement convivial destine a la saisie d'un systeme d'equation qu'il resoudra ensuite. Il prend en argument le nombre d'equations du systeme, et ensuite vous amene a un ecran de saisie convivial. Le flag 2 affecte le comportement du programme, s'il est set, alors le programme vous renvoie une liste de la forme {'x=k1' 'y=k2' ...}, mais il peut arriver que cette valeur de k soit fausse (c'est un bug que je pense bientot resoudre), par contre si le flag 2 est cleared, alors le programme renvoie la solution sous la forme {'k1x+k2' 'k3y+k4' ...} ou la toutes les valeurs sont exactes, sous-entendu 'k1x+k2=0'. Julien Blanc jul-bl@infonie.fr http://perso.infonie.fr/jul-bl/hp48.htm ==== Subject: Re: Alg48tls <19990319013302.27965.00000320@ng-fz1.aol.com>... >I download some tools for Alg48 (alg48tls) from www.hpcalc.org. Unfortunately, >the documentation is in French. Perhaps some kind soul wouldn't mind >translating what these 6 programs do...not necessarily the whole doc, but just One of the little-known(?) jewels of the net (and BOOKMARK IT!!!): http://babelfish.altavista.com/cgi-bin/translate? Just cut & paste sections of your text in there, and you'll get something like the follow: ********* ALG48 Tools v1.0: They are six utilities intend has to return your hp48 even more powerful, and of course in a user-friendly environment... These six programs are: Fact: a small program which will calculate you the factiorelle one of any natural number (N!), and this with an infinite precision!! The program is completely usable until A 300 on a standard HP48 (after, Ca becomes long A to calculate). This program takes an argument, which is N, and returns N! in the form of character strings. It turns over an error if the argument is not a reel number. dowry: a small program which will calculate you the scalar product of two vectors. This program reconnait has the time the vectors two-dimensional and three-dimensional, makes a two-dimensional vector of it, for example { X y } is considere like { X y 0 }. The vectors can be represente by matrices (as for the function DOWRY provided of origin by HP) or by lists being able to contain fractions, expressio ******** Considering the amount of '48 stuff in French, Spanish, German, etc (including the occasional thread in French on this n.g.) ... I'd say for those of us that are struggling with translation or don't know the least bit at all, altavista is a god-send! I'd suppose you could also go and buy on of those translator programs if you don't want to do it online (and for free). Peter Khor ==== Subject: Re: Alg48tls <19990319013302.27965.00000320@ng-fz1.aol.com>... I download some tools for Alg48 (alg48tls) from www.hpcalc.org. > Unfortunately, the documentation is in French. Perhaps some kind soul wouldn't mind translating what these 6 programs do...not necessarily the whole doc, but > just One of the little-known(?) jewels of the net (and BOOKMARK IT!!!): http://babelfish.altavista.com/cgi-bin/translate? Well, as i'm the author of these programs i may help you. If you have any questions, just send them to me at jblanc@ens.insa-rennes.fr However, this soft is not a jewel, it's often too slow (user-rpl). I needed some features (cross-product, dot-products, fact) which were in Erable, but i don't have room for erable (gx without any extension (i may do it, but if anyone wants to, it's up to him). Jul ==== Subject: Re: Alg48tls <19990319013302.27965.00000320@ng-fz1.aol.com>... I download some tools for Alg48 (alg48tls) from www.hpcalc.org. > Unfortunately, the documentation is in French. Perhaps some kind soul wouldn't mind translating what these 6 programs do...not necessarily the whole doc, but > just One of the little-known(?) jewels of the net (and BOOKMARK IT!!!): http://babelfish.altavista.com/cgi-bin/translate? Well, as i'm the author of these programs i may help you. If you have any questions, just send them to me at jblanc@ens.insa-rennes.fr However, this soft is not a jewel, it's often too slow (user-rpl). I needed some features (cross-product, dot-products, fact) which were in Erable, but i don't have room for erable (gx without any extension (i may do it, but if anyone wants to, it's up to him). Jul ==== Subject: Disabling LASTARG slows HP48 down?!? It is generally accepted that turning off LASTARG speeds up program execution, but Bill Butler mentions in Datafile that sometimes the reverse is true! He gives the following example: > << 2 IDN 1 10 START 1 COL- 1 COL+ NEXT > One can check that times are quite consistent down to 10K > available memory after which one has (in seconds): Available Memory LASTARG on LASTARG off > 10K 1.178 1.796 > 5K 1.290 1.634 > 2K 1.533 1.594 (Of course, with extremely low memory, everything becomes > slower). Although the differences are not earth-shattering, they are surprising because it appears that turning off LASTARG does not speed up the HP48 but slows it down in this case! Can anybody explain why this happens? Could it be a quirk of the COL- and COL+ internal logic? -Joe- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: Disabling LASTARG slows HP48 down?!? It is generally accepted that turning off LASTARG speeds up > program execution, but Bill Butler mentions in Datafile that > sometimes the reverse is true! In case anyone is wondering, Datafile is the journal of HPCC, a club for HP calculator enthusiasts. Details are at http://www.hpcc.org -- Bruce Horrocks (...speaking for myself) Camberley, Surrey GU15 3PD. Email: Bruce.Horrocks@gecm.com GNET: 832 3032 Tel: 01276 686777 Fax: 01276 686623 ==== Subject: SysRpl questions I'm a novice in SysRpl and have two simple questions: 1) Is it possible to make message boxes like in UserRpl (MSGBOX) ? 2) How do I clear all the information abount the last error? I have tried to use the ERR0-function, but it does not seem to do the work. Everytime I call an error message (i.e. SETMEMERR) the stack output from the previous error is pushed to the stack. Am I missing something about the error trapping functions? I hope someone will help me with these (terrible simple) problems. Peter Michael ==== Subject: Re: SysRpl questions >1) Is it possible to make message boxes like in UserRpl (MSGBOX) ? Yep! Its called DoMsgBox stack: 5:message (The string you want to display) 4: #maxwidth (bint for max width of box) 3: #minwidth (bint for min width of box) 2: grob (optional grob, or MINUSONE for none) 1: ' MsgBoxMenu Then DoMsgBox. Or just put your msg on the stack and use xMSGBOX. >How do I clear all the information abount the last error? I'm still getting the hang of sysrpl, I think that 0LASTOWDOB! does this. You should check out rplman.doc at hpcalc.org, with lots of other info you can use! >I hope someone will help me with these (terrible simple) problems. > They are all simple, if you know the answer! Dennis ==== Subject: Re: Help, I can't get my HP48GX to communicate with Hyperterminal Mark Sluser a .8ecrit dans le message <7bm636$9je$1@sue.cc.uregina.ca>... >I can't get my HP48GX to communicate with Hyperterminal. I have even tried >using the Private Edition. I got the same problem. So I use the RomDump from Emu48 for DOS downloaded www.hpcalc.org and then it worked after two consersions (Kermit_Session.log => Emu48dos.rom => Emu48Win.rom) Good Luck. Thierry L. ==== Subject: Re: HELP!! Manual... > I lost my HP 48GX manual, if there is anyway I can find one on the > Internet? Also, is there any books written dedicated to teach people how > to program under HP48GX? I wan to do some small programs under my > Jason > HP48 Remote Control Manual. This manual is the same as the one distributed, but it is converted for use with a www-browse http://www.student.nada.kth.se/~d89-bga/hp48/remote/index.html Thierry L. ==== Subject: Re: Emu48 Dump ROM >Are there any special measures that must be taken to successfully dump >the ROM? I tried to use the RomDump Wizard; it appeared to start the >process okay, but quickly sent my 48GX into Recover memory? mode. I >had to do a paperclip reset to get it going again (not to mention >card in it, if that makes a difference. I got a HP48G with no program card and I still had the same problem. So I use the RomDump from Emu48 for DOS downloaded www.hpcalc.org and then it worked after two consersions (Kermit_Session.log => Emu48dos.rom => Emu48Win.rom) Good Luck. Thierry L. ==== Subject: is polymorphism just skin deep? Is the question shown in the subject line totally silly? I'm from another world (IBM multi node SP machines, parallel processing stuff etc.) and I bought this nice little calculator just for the fun of it, but I noticed the following: #2 2* --> #4 2 2 * --> 4 { 2 3 4 ) 2 * --> { 4 6 8 } [ 2 3 ] 2 * --> [ 4 6 ] This all make sense to me, the * operator (using 'user rpl') is a polymorphic operator, i.e. given the types of the operands, the correct operator is applied. Even the following works fine: { 2 3 [ 4 5 ] 6 } 2 * --> { 4 6 [ 8 10 ] 12 } [1] But have a look at this: { 2 3 { 4 5 } 6 } 2 * --> whammo: type error [2] How come, a polymorphic operator can be recursively applied succesfully in [1], but not in example [2]? Is this a little design/implementation flaw (no offense, I _do_ like this little calculator) or am I misunderstanding something? Just asking ... Jos aka jos@and.nl ==== Subject: Re: is polymorphism just skin deep? > { 2 3 [ 4 5 ] 6 } 2 * --> { 4 6 [ 8 10 ] 12 } [1] But have a look at this: { 2 3 { 4 5 } 6 } 2 * --> whammo: type error [2] How come, a polymorphic operator can be recursively applied > succesfully in [1], but not in example [2]? Is this a little > design/implementation flaw (no offense, I _do_ like this little > calculator) or am I misunderstanding something? G/GX automatic list processing (referred to as parallel processing in Appendix G of the HP 48G Series Advanced User's Reference Manual) is NOT applied recursively but only once to each object in the list. In example [1] above, the FOUR objects in the list are each doubled, including the single object [ 4 5 ] which is taken to be a vector. I think that the only time a list gets recursed into is with the ->Q and ->Qpi functions, which do get applied recursively into sublists, but this recursing is performed by the functions themselves, even in the 48S/SX which does not have the automatic list processing feature of the G/GX. See the AUR for most of the details of automatic list processing and see Bill Wickes' book HP 48 Insights G/GX Edition for the ultimate -Joe- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: is polymorphism just skin deep? Little calculator? Hmpphh! ==== Subject: Re: is polymorphism just skin deep? { 2 3 4 { 5 6 } 7 } 2 * it seems very odd to me that this is wouldn't work... i would think that the 48 would have a routine that the pulls each argument out of the list, multiplies it by 2 and then sticks it back where it found it... when it comes to the list { 5 6 } ... for it NOT to work, it would have to apply a different routine than the one that it had been using all along...??? hmmmm...??? it works with DOLIST...which i would think would be almost the same thing...??? And it works with an array in the middle... { 2 3 4 [ 5 6 ] 7 } which would suggest that it's asking all the usual questions for the objects that it's working on...??? how very odd. ----------- :: o ==== Subject: Re: 7 data bits It turns out the device does have a parity bit (even) making a total of 8 bits between the start and stop bits so I don't think I'll have a problem.

If the HP has parity set does it only send 7 bits of data plus the parity bit?  I think it must and therefore only values less than 128 can be sent when parity is set.

Bill
 

if the other system uses 7 bits and 1 parity bit you might be able to fool it.  I've done that in various circumstances and made it work.  But not using the 48.

7 bits and 1 parity bit make 8 bits.  Tell the 48 that youre not using parity, which is pretty normal anyway.
You'll probably need some program to strip the 8th bit off if it's there.  User RPL should be able to handle that but ML will of course be a lot faster and probably easier.

Barry

==== Subject: (Digital) Control Systems Does anybody know a good and easy package for calculating Control=20 Systems and Digital Control Systems? mpb ==== Subject: Texteditor is there a programm which help me to write a text using my pc and then transfare it to the HP48GX, so I can read it like a normal text like these. I have written a text with ending *.txt and trensfared to the calc but what I saw was like 'hallo' next stack 'my' next stack and so on .. I hope you gusy now what i mean ! thx Ersin ==== Subject: Re: Texteditor is there a programm which help me to write a text using my pc and then > transfare it to the HP48GX, so I can read it like a normal text like these. I think there's a soft called winhp which is what you want. see www.hpcalc.org , i think it should be there. You should also want a nice wiever for your hp. Same adress. I have written a text with ending *.txt and trensfared to the calc but what > I saw was like 'hallo' next stack 'my' next stack and so on .. You need to have a at the beginning and at the end of your text. Jul ==== Subject: Re: Texteditor for sending text to the 48... simply write the text on your big box, put it into a simple/plain text document, then for the magick part... prefix it with: %%HP: T(1)A(D)F(.); C$ $ ! whalla! The T(1) may be T(0)...T(1) is better...it will retain all your carriage returns in an intelligible manner, while T(0) will move the text and text-codes to the 48 verbatum, which given that the 48 and your big-box use different text-codes...is probably a (bad) idea...??? big-box carriage returns are (?) CHR(13-10) 48 carriage returns are CHR(10) to recap: your text document should look like this: --------- see below -------- %%HP: T(1)A(D)F(.); C$ $ Your text goes here... blah blah blah... end of text -------end of document--- don't include the dashed lines/comments ----------- :: o ==== Subject: Power-supply ruins keyboard (Or, Why doesn't a power supply work to run the HP48?) [and a request for help] I recently tried to run my HP48 by hooking a power supply to the battery terminals. I couldn't get it to work! I started at 4.5 V, ~15 mA. I thought 15 mA might be a bit small, but I wanted to be conservative. Nothing happened. Then I let the current go up slowly and eventually I got weird things happening on the screen but the calculator still never came on. So then I thought I would increase the voltage on the chance that the meter on the supply was reading slightly low. Still, nothing. When I got done, I measured the supply with a good meter and it turns out I got as high as 6V, 90 mA. So one question I have is, why didn't the power supply work to power the HP? But my main question is about the keyboard. Ever since this time, two rows of keys on the keyboard duplicate each other. I suppose it must be related to putting 6 V across the battery terminals. In more detail, the symptom is that when I push (on an empty stack) e.g., <- (drop), I get INV error; too few arguments. If I do <- with a number on the stack, it disappears (dropped) but LAST STK gives the inverse of the number. So I know it was first inverted and then dropped. A run through the keyboard test confirms that every key in the fourth row gives its location then the location directly beneath it in the fifth row. Fifth row keys do the same, namely first the fourth-row signal, then itself. This problem is intermittent. Occasionally everything is back to normal; more often the fourth row is OK but the fifth still shows the problem; and mostly both rows are broken. I would be very happy to hear any comments or insights you have on the cause of the problem, coping with it, and most of all, how to correct it. Checking the dejanews archive, I find that there has been some discussion of defective keyboards over the past few years, problems which occurred mostly due to overuse as far as I can tell. The consensus seemed to be, the keyboards aren't designed to last; send it in to HP for a replacement. Unfortunately, since I have opened my HP48, HP can't do anything for me. What I hope is that someone who actually has attempted a repair (or who knows about hardware) can give me the benefit of their experience. Does anyone know the details of the keyboard, the sort of problems that might result in these symptoms, and a repair procedure? If you have read this far, I'm hopeful that you may have some suggestions, so let me give you one more detail: I have opened the calculator before and attempted the memory upgrade described in various postings. This failed (calculator wouldn't turn on afterwards; I still haven't figured out what went wrong) so I undid everything and the calculator was back to normal. Given the intermittent nature of the problem, I can't guarantee that this failed upgrade was not the cause. But I did not notice anything amiss until directly after trying to use the power supply, some days later. Karl Nelson. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: Power-supply ruins keyboard (Or, Why doesn't a power supply work to run the HP48?) [and a request for help] dumb guess's: dumb guess one: i looked at the battery compartment and the batteries certainly LOOK to be arranged in series...but do they, could they be somehow intermentantly tapped in the middle for some reason...??? dumb guess two: how flat was the power you were feeding the 48...maybe it was made skittish by tiny alternating fluctuations in the current...??? dumb guess three: the 6 volt max that you pumped into it sounds like it might just higher enough than the expected 4.5 that it should have been getting...it's been documented that rechargables ( sometimes ) don't work because they only ( sometimes ) deliver 1.25 v per battery...??? the 48 might be very sensitive to voltage deviations...???...and polarity reversals...??? (!) ----------- :: o ==== Subject: Missing memory in 48gx? X-Added: With Flames (outnews v2.6) A month or two ago, I noticed that several of my libraries had vanished. I just downloaded new versions of all my libraries and tried purging the old ones; I could only get up to 86969.5 bytes free. I've reset it with the foot button, still 86969.5. The strange thing is that when I do On+E, the 128k iram test says OK. The IROM checks out too. and it says OK-48 at the end of the cycle. Anyone know what's going on? Justin ==== Subject: Re: Missing memory in 48gx? >A month or two ago, I noticed that several of my libraries had vanished. >I just downloaded new versions of all my libraries and tried purging the >old ones; I could only get up to 86969.5 bytes free. I've reset it with >the foot button, still 86969.5. The strange thing is that when I do On+E, >the 128k iram test says OK. The IROM checks out too. and it says OK-48 >at the end of the cycle. Anyone know what's going on? Yea. Sometimes if you crash it, the libraries go away, but they are still stored in memory. The only way to get rid of them is ON-A-F. you probably want to back up your memory to a computer first, for obvious reasons. Daniel Brooks ==== Subject: Can the hp48 simplify (x^2+9) Can the hp48G(X) simplify (x^2+9) to there factors. Or the things that are timesed together to get (x^2+9). e-mail: Pres248(at)aol(dot)com ==== Subject: Re: Can the hp48 simplify (x^2+9) Replying by e-mailand by post to comp.sys.hp48. > Can the hp48G(X) simplify (x^2+9) to there factors. Or the things that are > timesed together to get (x^2+9). > e-mail: Pres248(at)aol(dot)com You appear to spend too much time reading the manuals of products you buy. It's time to take a trapse outside the garden wall. I do not believe the HP48 will not 'simplify' such an expression as an algebraic expression, but you can solve it in several ways. I put the word simplify in quotes, because it may be legitimately argued that x^2+9 is simpler than (x+i3)(x-i3) due to the complex roots. The HP48 will solve a quadtratic expression directly: 'X^2+9' Equation to be solved 'X' Variable of interest (initial Eq may have more vars) QUAD Enter this command or find softkey in menus results in 'X=s1*(0,6)/2' The variable s1 is just like +/- 1 in the Quadratic Eq. The HP48 can solve for the roots of higher-ordered polynomial expressions: Go to [Right-shift] [SOLVE] Solve Poly... Your coefficients vector for your problem would be [1 0 9] because you have 1*x^2 + 0*X^1 + 9*X^0 Enter this vector, and Roots will be highlighted. Press the SOLVE softkey. This method will also solve polynomials like X^10 - 175*X^7 + 13*x^5 +11817*X^2 - X For which the solutions are aqpproximately 0, 0.00008, (0.72737-i*2.1728) (0.72737+i2.1728) and six more. Good Day! . ------ I don't soeak for HP when I post here. ==== Subject: Re: Can the hp48 simplify (x^2+9) > Can the hp48G(X) simplify (x^2+9) to its factors? Let's make it slightly harder: (5x^2+45) Write only the coefficients of the above polynomial as a vector, e.g. (5x^2+0x+45) ==> [ 5 0 45 ] Now use the program PFCTR, which you may find at [ 5 0 45 ] ==> '5*(X-(0,3))*(X-(0,-3))' here's a copy of the program, anyway: %%HP: T(3); @ PFCTR - Factor simple polynomials (G/GX) << -3 CF DUP 1 GET SWAP PROOT OBJ-> EVAL ->LIST 1 << 'X' SWAP - * >> DOLIST >> I don't squeak for HP when I click my mouse here. -------------- With best wishes from: John H Meyers ==== Subject: Where to Get the HP48 FAQ X-Url: http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Where to Get the HP48 FAQ This document briefly describes where to get the latest version of the comp.sys.hp48 FAQ. The main site is: http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/ All formats of the FAQ are available at the above link, including the text, PostScript, HTML, and SGML versions. Text Postings Text only versions of the FAQ will be posted to the newsgroup comp.sys.hp48 and comp.sources.hp48 as needed (usually every two weeks). Also, remember that all official FAQs (including this one) are mirrored at rtfm.mit.edu. Specifically, this one is at: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/comp.sys.hp48/ Furthermore, the text FAQ is posted to comp.answers and news.answers. I will sign all text versions with PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) using the following key for authenticity, and provide MD5 Checksums for the remaining files. You can get a copy of this public key through the URL above. Type Bits KeyID Created Expires Algorithm Use sec+ 1024 2CFAA0BB 1997-06-21 ---------- DSS Sign and Encrypt sub 2048 F940E148 1997-06-21 ---------- Diffie-Hellman uid Andre P. Schoorl Alternate Sites Alternatively, you can download the FAQ at one the following locations: North America: -------------- Latest: http://www.hpcalc.org/docs/faq/ Older: ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/calculators/hp48g/docs/ Europe: ------- Latest: ftp://ftp.stud.fh-heilbronn.de/pub/systems/hp48/incoming/ Older: ftp://ftp.stud.fh-heilbronn.de/pub/systems/hp48/info/FAQ/ Translations: ------------- Espanol (Spanish): http://www.alumnos.utfsm.cl/~aarrieta/hp48.html Portugues (Portugese): http://members.tripod.com/~area48/ Contacting Me I rely on your input in order to keep this FAQ up to date. If you have any suggestions or updates, feel free to mail them to me. My current address is: aschoorl@engr.uvic.ca If you're using a web enabled news reader, you can click here: mailto:aschoorl@engr.uvic.ca -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNoqLNehzXOws+qC7EQJ4OACg/0aYBeXvteh7Hq8h9NRm8ttKPbgAoKSH 8ZbNg6DFVr1Hbn+R5ZoQ5AQs =Ss4t -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Andre Schoorl PGP key available on request/keyserver Comp Engineering, UVic, Canada Linux/HP48 http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/ ==== Subject: Re: Missing memory in 48gx? X-Added: With Flames (outnews v2.6) > Yea. Sometimes if you crash it, the libraries go away, but they are still > stored in memory. The only way to get rid of them is ON-A-F. you probably want > to back up your memory to a computer first, for obvious reasons. of value, just wanted to upgrade my libraries. Justin ==== Subject: Re: iMac IrDA You need the keyspan usb to serial port adapter, and your old cable. They adapter is available from macwarehouse or from keyspan.com. As for the infared connection, if you do get it to work it will consume more battery power, than with the cable solution. Besides the new revision c imacs do not have the irport, so don't expect to find a solution, it's a dead end. -- Francisco Guzman http://www.cyberg8t.com/fguzman http://www.cyberg8t.com/fguzman/hp48.html ICQ number 33891106 ==== Subject: META KERNEL NOT ON ROM CARD HOW can i get it where can i buy it could anyone send it to me??? ==== Subject: Re: META KERNEL NOT ON ROM CARD? How about Ollie North? http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: New HP must include a built-in SolveSys-like program. Don't you think so? Iterative solving capabilities of SolveSys 4.02 or its old brother Sim 5.0 are indispensable for some calculations, such as Hardy Cross and others. The new HP should have this built-in. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: Re: New HP must include a built-in SolveSys-like program. > Don't you think so? Iterative solving capabilities of SolveSys 4.02 or its old brother Sim 5.0 are > indispensable for some calculations, such as Hardy Cross and others. The new HP should have this built-in. Perez! I think a periodical table must be also included as buitl-in. Many times I needed a periodical table and asked myself, why not a periodical table included in ROM? http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own > Marangon HP48 for beginners! http://www.geocities.com/~hpfb http://members.xoom.com/hp48fb (mirror) http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ==== Subject: library problem X-Added: With Flames (outnews v2.6) Whenever I send a library to my calculator, it appears to work fine, I can put it on the stack and I see Library 909 <...>, and I can store it to port 0 with '0 sto' but when I on+c or turn the calc off and back on, it says Warning: Invalid data card, and the library is taking up memory, but isn't accessible. The only way I can get rid of it is an on+a+f Any ideas? Justin ==== Subject: display bleeding quite a while ago, someone posted a msg about the display bleeding. its happeningto me RIGHT now, and it won't turn on!!! help!!!! its not broken lcd, its the pixels making a bleeding kinda pattern and slowl dissipating to the top. its WEIRD!!!! SOMEBODY HELP!!!! now the calc won't even turn on!!! btw, i just changed the batteries cuz it said batt low or something