B368 I ended up doing something completely different this weekend and got it to work. I went and bought a female DB9 connector and soldered wires to pins 1,2,3, and 5. I soldered the other end of the wires to wire wrap posts, then shoved them into the 4 pin side of the 10-4 pin adapter. It works. So I'm going to call HP parts (different from shopping village) and order part number F1633-66001 (part number for the 10-4 pin adapter). When I get it, I'll make what I rigged this weekend permanent, and I'll still have an adapter to use for 48's. Also, you can order 2mm headers from DigiKey. They are the most popular place to get parts amung us EEs here at USU. Stew Weber ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Agreed. or look and feel that the flash rom could give us. Want a flashier display? Just download glitzrom.lib! How about more functionality? Go for doitall.lib. HP can see and hear comments this where but is the of are of I'd it. It's 952  ham radio OH6HAY saat salaisuuteni. Se on hyvin näkee hyvin. Tärkeimpiä Antoine de Saint-Exupery: Pikku prinssi ---------------------------------------------------------------------- well I guess the publishers of the textbooks should also pay the professors directly. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm interested in getting a belt case for my 49G. I'd like one that uses a clip so you can detach it w/o removing your belt. I'd prefer one that was as small as possible while providing some protection (translation: I don't need/want a thick leather surveyor's case). Suggestions? URLs? Steve -- http://www.stevebarr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- It doesn't seem so. It's fun to check this yourself using the tools in library 256. Just type 256 MENU, then put any object on the glory for you to enjoy. -Joe- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Had I an HP49G, I would do that :-) -- Eduardo M Kalinowski mailto:ekalin@iname.com http://move.to/hp48g Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- try, it replies Server Error at HP's end. Is it just my luck, or is their website buggy? The URL is on your registration card. -Joe- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- It worked for me a week ago. I filled the online form out and just before I hit send, I noticed they didn't provide the opportunity for you to request the AUG. So I filled out the card, put that I wanted the AUG and mailed it in. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:10:36 -0400, Thierry Hautem-Morissette [clip] $330 dollars canadian?!?! See my previous response to The C$469 Question ... Neil ---------------------------------------------------------------------- it(there was a math book inside and those are HUGE, also it was a very NooOoooOoo!! j/k but it still wasn't fun). So around that period of time in order to replace the screen it would take $100. I was wondering if anyone knows the current price on the screen replacements for these calcs. Or would I just be better off getting the 49G? What worries me is the incompatibilities with running 48G* programs on the 49G. Entrypoints etc. I heard that it was just binary only programs though. I did wonder if there could be some way to run a program that would interpret the 48G* binaries and point them to the correct entrypoints. (Maybe just wishful thinking?) Blackforge Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- If you can afford it, by an hp49. But if you can't an you know some HP48 hardware hacker, he may be interested in your smashed 48. So selling it to him for a few bucks ($20?) and getting a new hp48 may be another option... That is possible, but only system-RPL programs that use only supported entry points could be translated reliably. The problem is that many great system RPL programs use unsupported entry points, and there no insurance that those entry points even have an equivalent on the HP49. And even if some of them do have an equivalent, it will take quite some time for them to be found. Some ASM programs could also be converted, but, apart from the already mentionned pb with unsupported entry points, ASM programs often do tricky things with adresses for the sake of optimization (like partial register loading while accessing the system memory, or adress tables, or whatever). And tracking all those things is nearly an AI-complete problem. There is a precendent, 48S to 48G converters. They work sometimes. Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ... which I remembered, but wanted to make sure I wasn't being overly pessimistic. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Well it seems to be implicit but it isn't. Collect logarithms with LNCOLLECT. You get LN((COS(Y(X))+1)/(COS(Y(X))-1)). Select this term in the equation writer and replace cos with tan of the half argument with HALFTAN. The term is replaced by -LN(-TAN(Y(X)/2)^2). Your solution now is -LN(-TAN(Y(X)/2)^2)/2=SIN(X)+C0. This can be solved explicitly for Y(X). I don't know why the HP49 doesn't do this steps automatically. Perhaps some flag settings? But this story shows that no CAS can be perfect. The HP49 is a excellent tool but don't expect it to do miracles. Nothing replaces thinking (and math knowledge unfortunatelly ;-) ) Hope it helped. Nick Karagiaouroglou Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm looking for Jim Donnelly's _HP48 Handbook_. Amazon.com and Borders both have it listed as out of print. Does anybody know of a source that still has it in stock? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sigh...looks as if the HP-49G, which includes many wonderful things, appears to have more bugs than prior HP graphic/symbolic calculators did. To be expected, I suppose. A rush to the market, knowledge that your mistakes can be fixed easily, creation by a team that knew the HP-48 well (more than almost anybody?) but did not have any in-depth history with earlier HP calculators of days gone by. Heck, some were in diapers at the time of the HP-65! All prior HP's had bugs... The HP-65 had some pointer bugs that could be exploited for some wonderful space games. Other bugs allowed for the creation of a pause feature, counters, etc. The HP-41 had some bugs (hooray!) that allowed the development of synthetic programming, which helped give birth to a true HP calculator hero, Dr. Bill Wickes. Dr. Wickes, perhaps more than anyone else, is responsible for the symbolic capable-HP calculators we have today. If it weren't for his leadership on the HP-28C, HP-28S, and HP-48SX, where would we be today? Some bugs have not been as pretty, but they were mostly minor annoyances. A spurious } symbol left on the stack (HP-28C), the incorrect SINE of 0.000001234 degrees (HP-41 (who on earth needed to do that anyway?)), etc. None of which compares to the HP-71 bug that would erase all of memory under certain conditions in calculator mode. Which brings me (finally) to the point of this retrospective: Where were the long-time HP calculator users in the beta test team? Quite a few of the bugs posted about the HP-49G are coming from a small group of people, most of which are OLD-TIMERS in the HP calculator world. Was Joe Horn a beta tester? No. Was Brian Walsh a beta tester? No. Was Richard Nelson? No More seriously...was Bill Wickes? Apparently not. Suggestion for next time... Put beta units in the hands of users who have experience LOOKING for bugs...it does take a certain mindset. Flash rom is nice and will surely fix many of this unruly bugs...but this machine would probably never have been released in its current state without this capability...it would have been tested better beforehand. Let's learn from this and test the next one better... Thoughts? Wright http://members.aol.com/hp Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree with you on having more beta testers and those with long time HP experience help on the next machine. HP's letting a few whiz kids and a math professor, (mostly from France) design, build and test the whole thing is suprising. However, it ain't over till it's over... Let's see if the current team can make the Flash ROM update work. If the bug and manual updates get out quickly, this new machine may truly be the revolutionary step HP needs to really compete with TI. What I mean by that is not producing a machine to appeal *solely* to engineers, who are a rather small niche market. HP's new strategy to *also* appeal to students is correct. Wherever you go in America, TI's are easy to buy as loaf of bread. But you really have to go out of your way to buy an HP. HP's calculators need to be in every Walmart, Kmart, Target, etc... just like the TIs. And, once students learn about HP's quality, accuracy, and reliability, they'll buy HP again when they get to their respective careers later in life. diapers do small Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Erable on the 48 will stop with the 3.2 version. I can't work on it anymore, it would mean ignore a full year of developmet. Unfortunately I can not release the source to 3.2 now but you can have an idea of many algorithms used by viewing the 3.024 source code. Bernard Parisse ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Will the HP49G accept units on other types than real numbers? It would be nice if one could use units on symbolics, and especially for me, it would be VERY nice to be able to use units on complex numbers. If it doesn't as of now, consider this a request for that functionality in a later Flash Update. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This problem will never in real life be worth solving symbolically. MathCad 7.0 will spend around 12 minutes on the problem on a PIII 450, and then return with a Symbolic result too large - and I expect this error to have sprung from a mid-way result, rather than from the final form. When using large matrices, they will be numerical, and you will learn to use reductions and elimination of variables - and fast computers. Just my $0.02 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't think so. Doing symbolic stuff by hand or with a CAS is really different. You have to learn what the CAS can solve and a bit how it works so that * you can check that the answer is correct * you can find a better way to formulate the problem for the CAS if he did not solve it. Let me take one example, suppose you want to integrate sqrt(tan(x)) on the 49. If you do sqrt(TAN(X)) INTVX it will return the integral unevaluated INT(sqrt(TAN(X)),X) But as a mathematician, you know that the change of var TAN(XT)=Y will transform it in a sqrt over a rational fraction. This can be integrated by the CAS. So do the substitution 'TAN(XT)=Y' SUBST and EVAL the result. I hope I have convinced you that it is useful to teach how the CAS work and what it can do. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm trying to select easily a line in the MKeditor, and execute it, but I don't know how to make a kind of macro, to have less keystrockes than begin shift rarrow end next next shift stack next next (to come back at the first menu) I suppose it is the same in the new 49. Cam ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BST) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D02FB3F582E95463AF282353 All the plotting is buggy : i can't get the 49 to trace a full conic it just will stopbefore the end of the drawing ... and the ticks function behave strangely ... hope it will be improved since it is supposed to be a graphic calculator ... isn't it ? --------------D02FB3F582E95463AF282353 name=alexksso.vcf filename=alexksso.vcf begin:vcard n:CASASSOVICI;Alexander tel;cell:06-847-849-13 tel;home:01-30-21-31-59 adr:;;59, rue EXELMANS;VERSAILLES;;78000; version:2.1 email;internet:Alexksso@netcourrier.com fn:CASASSOVICI Alexander end:vcard --------------D02FB3F582E95463AF282353-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- not me.. but the source is available for anyone interested.. I would be glad to help, but I'd rather spend time on working on the full version for the G series ;-) -- Aaron. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ^^ Shouldn't this be 26, to avoid getting a 26. appended to the hex string? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- One thing I'm concerned about is screen size - I understand that the TI has more pixels than the HP - and it seems to me this could make a BIG difference in the overall usability of the calculator. Seeing as you just moved from the TI to the HP, do you find the screen limiting, or has HP done a good enough job with the UI that it works well? Dave Baum p.s. For reference I am currently own a 48G that I really don't take full advantage of because of how cumbersome (and slow) the UI is. -- reply to: dbaum at enteract dot com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I recently have moved from a TI86 to a 49G, and can't say I have even /thought/ about regreting it. The screen on the the 48/49 is slightly higher resolution than the TI86, and much less than the TI89, but I don't find this to be a problem at all: HP has done a very good job to conserve screen space. The extra space on the tis could be nice, but remember that much of it is always taken up by menu bars and other things which either aren't needed on the hp, or are part of the status area (shift keys, alpha key, etc). I am using the eight font, but that is simply because I find the other fonts hard to read. To sum it up: sure, a higher resolution screen would be nice, but the extra functionality, better software, community, availability and quality of programming languages, and flexibility far out weight a higher resolution screen. -- - Chris -- Visit Me at http://www.frostnet.advicom.net -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- it is not simple to answer truely to this question i have an hp49g and i used an ti89 it is possible to say that the hp49 will do more things, but sometimes slower than the ti89 the ti89 is only good for simple problems the hp49 has more memory, and more math features hp49g@infonie.fr ---------------------------------------------------------------------- can be fixed, or if we have to wait for newer HP49Gs to come out to have them fixed? I just bought one but havent taken it out of the box so I can still return it, is it worth wait for the bugs to be corrected or can they be corrected in mine? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- How could you read about the bugs in the HP49G and miss the information about flash ram? Also, people are blowing the bugs out of proportion. Don't worry about them, because the HP programmers are the best and will eradicate them in no time. If anyone is interested, the University of Utah bookstore has about 50 of these and they're going for 169 dollars. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- condition that a customer may put his vehicle through. The flash rom allows us to update these cars by getting the trouble reports from the field, identifying the exact conditions and develop a solution that can be flashed into the vehicle at a local dealer. I know the that the engine performance group I work in does their absolute best to give an error free calibration but there are only so many summer hot days and winter cold days to do real world testing. Environmental chambers can be used for a lot of the work but you can't tow a trailer up a grade at 0 degrees temperature with snow in it. The real world is a much more dynamic place and unfortunately some bugs will slip by. Flash rom is a saviour for fixing those missed opportunities. Dave Zelkowski ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Although the word sloppy occurs in my post about HP's 49, it was not used to describe the work of the ACO team. It was used in the context of the use and misuse of flashrom in ral applications. The opportunity that flashrom presents to the manufacturer is beyond question. If it is used for upgrading functionality, or providing fixes for reasonably unavoidable errors then I applaud its use. There are some companies I know that could care less about the stability or usefulness of their software as long as the customer will still buy it and help them fix it. -- +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Les Nagy: President | mailto:lnagy@netaccess.on.ca | http://www.nas.net/~lnagy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 10:39:14 CDT) I think it's a little bit unfair to say flash is bad because it encourages sloppy work. Just from reading the posts here (I don't have a 49 yet) it does seem like there are a few more bugs than in early releases of the HP48. Also there are features not yet included with the promise that they'll be coming along in the future. But is that bad? Isn't this a new way to make and sell a product? Get an adequate product out the door but let the buyers know more is coming. I think it's a fascinating idea. In the final stages of development, we all have one (except me, I can't find one locally) and and we have a place to post our opinions and the knowledge that the developers are listening. We're part of the development team. (except poor deprived me) Maybe when I get mine, I'll hate it. Maybe I'll love it. But I'm sure enjoying watching this process. My complaint, which may change when I finally get one and see MetaKernal for the first time, is that Jazz isn't included. I'm sure MetaKernal is very nice but Jazz is ..., well, it's Jazz. Barry ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Putting Jazz into the ROM *sold by HP* is not feasible, too many people have been involved. Those who have conributed would not and should not let their work be used for free, and quite frankly, it is unrealistic to expect HP to make separate deals with all of them to satisfy the needs of a marginal group of users. -- --- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- It's a matter of taste. There are features of the 49 that are revolutionary in a calculator, in my opinion the interaction of EQW and the CAS are revolutionnary. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- get to connect the hp49 to a computer. I didn't see any thing that said hp49, will the hp48 cable work? Also, can the hp49 rotate 3d graphs as fast as a ti89? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- haha. looks like there are quite a few ti converts... i'm one of them. ;c) so... what about that connection cable? still not sure exactly which one is ok. to fast ---------------------------------------------------------------------- to buy a graphing calc for math class. The recommended calculator is the TI-85 (what the teacher will be using), however we are free to get whatever calc we want as long as we teach ourselves how to use it. Since a graphing calc is rather expensive, I figure I might as well spend just a little bit more and get a higher-end calc that I can use in college and beyond. I'm considering the highest end calcs from HP & TI, the 49G and the 89. I've rejected the TI-92/92+ as a possibility because its banned on the AP exams and because it looks a little too large and unwieldy to carry around. I'm interested in the HP-49 because of its ability to show step-by-step solutions to problems. However, the number of bugs being reported about this calc in the hp newsgroup concerns me. Also, its lower resolution screen seems to be a major disadvantage as well (how do the same graphs look when plotted on the TI vs the HP?) The TIs seems to be better accepted in schools, which means I would probably have better support in using one, since there will more likely be others using one as opposed to the HP. But a recent newsgroup post seems to indicate that the HP49G could handle more different types of integrals than the TI. How else do the HP & TI differ in math handling ability and capability? Are there any other pros & cons of each calc I should be aware of? I am considering engineering as my major when I go to college (either mechanical or electrical). Which calc (HP-49G or TI-89) would be better suited for my needs? Or should I make things easier for myself and just stick with the TI-85? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- UV User: Well, I don't know what they teach in math in colleges these days, but an SR-10 got me thru high school, and the SR-52, TI-58, and TI-59 got me thru college (Electrical Engineering). For you X & Y Gen'ers the SR calcs are (were) TIs. When I got a real job, I got an HP-41CX and never looked back. The raw power of HP's simply blow away the TI toys. Even today, the engineers in my department are almost exclusively HP users. Anymore - and I'll admit it - I buy calcs for fun. I'll tinker with them to see how they've advanced over the past twenty years. Relevent to this group, I own a TI-86, TI-89, HP-48GX, and the 49G should arrive by Friday. IMHO, the TI-86 makes a good game platform. The TI-89 appears to be geared to getting you though the math classes with the least amount of studying the manual, but the HP-48 series is a work of art. It's ability to support data structures that lend itself to complex simulations is unparalleled in a calculator. It is shear elegance. Go for the HP. Roger (Univ of Dayton - 1979) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I am a Sophmore in high school and i just got a 49 and i love it. It took me about two days to get used to and i found its interface very easy to use. I suggest the 49. R. Fisher ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok, after reading 20 very interesting post about the ti vs hp battle I have to say a word or two I have two hp's and one ti89. I think that Hp has a better tool!! I should say a tool and not a calculator because it is a tool used to solve math problems. I ti89 seems good only for a low learner, a to head agurments with five other Ti users. The answer is that the old hp, hp48, made even the ti92+ look bad with erable loaded. now the hp49 has erable with mahor improvements in all areas. So from a EE student, look at what you want to be. First a smart learner or a user of just a calcutor. I think that you well find you want a tool. A tool that you and you teachers will be able to solve your problems now and a tool that you can solve the problems of after school, when it is more than just what your friend who did not go on with school had. well Hope that this helps those outthere think about which Tool to get. GET a HP49G it will be well worth the few minutes of reading the manuel and learning what it is to have a tool. Arnold Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- will be much happier if you buy an HP calculator than if you buy a TI calculator. If you have a problem with your HP calculator 1 day before that big exam, post it to comp.sys.hp48 and you will have your answer before that all important exam. You *might* get a response a week after the exam in bit.listserv.calc-ti. This is the basic point. You will have infinitely more support if you buy an HP calculator than if you buy a TI calculator. The programmers of the hp49, in Gerald Squelart, Bernard Parisse, Mika Heiskanen, among others, know that these are the people who make your calculator work, and they will be more than happy to help with your questions. And if you're a do-it-yourself-er, there's no contest; with 4 different on calculator languages that are far more powerful than anything the TI can provide, you will be able to write what you need if that's your bag. These are just my two cents, but you'll find my sentiments replicated by every HP user out there; after going HP, I would never go back even if TI was giving out ti89s for free. Seriously. Jeremy ---------------------------------- If i ever forget to capitalize a proper noun, forgive me. i'm a big fan of ee cummings Have a good day, and good luck in your endeavors! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- recommended? First axiom of college education: Question the Professor's Rules :) Guess what the first lemming in the line recommends... Bugs I have seen reported are minor, arcane, or non-sensical. (eg TI bug report -7^2 reports -49 ad nauseum ) Capability, use, speed and practicality are far more important features in a calculator, particularly when flash updates are available. In ral, I think it is safe to say lower resolution is disadvantageous only when accurate pattern reproduction is necessary, for most graphing purposes it becomes less critical. A resolution twice as high any default can be duplicated by zooming in at 2X. A zoom feature is included in the 48, and I make the assumption about the 49 having a similar feature(having missed the HHUC I do not yet hold one in my hands *sigh* ) speech at the beginning of the school year. Help was composed of the instructions in the textbook published by a panel of TI automatons, and not by actual tete-a-tete query and rejoinder, since the teacher was busy teaching math ( thank goodness! ) not calculator use. Should you expect more calculator instruction in your senior year or college? Probably true, although such has not always been the case ( see textbook reference above for the reason why it may be true today ). Presently enrolled college students could better comment on whether this discrepancy is larger or smaller at college level as opposed to high school ( I suspect it narrows markedly at institutions of higher learning ) due mainly to the HP's greater programmability and high precision math abilities. This will be a tit for tat race until the ozone layer spontaneously rerates. The Most Important Question is: will it handle the integrals you need? In electrical engineering you may need to learn to handle Laplace transforms, and most definately Fourier series ( EE majors insert comments here ). To me the most important asset would be the assistance and commentary of this newsgroup, and the resources provided on www.hpcalc.org and hosted by the underappreciated Eric Rechlin. If you have not seen the site yet, get a cup of coffee, a doughnut and surf there now. It is an amazing repository of a vast from the absolutely necessary to the very esoteric, this author's contributions falling entirely within the latter category. This depends entirely on YOU! TI sells a lot of calculators, so they aren't garbage. I do not find the HP48 difficult to use at all; the HP49 should be even easier for non-HP users to get accustomed to, so for me the choice is obvious. It is more than just possible that choosing an HP may make your life easier rather the reverse! At least mine has been more fun :) ( Steps off soapbox. ) Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CDT) I've never used a TI so I can't make a comparison but I'll tell you what I believe are two key engineering related features on HPs that I really like. #1. RPN - It's extremely usefull, especially for complex calculations. If you don't wish to use it however, algebraic is available on the 49 ( I have no idea why because once you learn to use RPN you'll never go back ). #2. Programming capabilities - In Mech Eng, I found I was often required to perform small, tedious, repetitive tasks. A quick UserRPL program would solve problems fast, at the desktop, and without the need for a computer. It's also relatively easy to learn once you master RPN. And, if you desire more powerful languages, for more permanent applications, they are available as SysRPL or assembly language. Unfortunately these are not supported by HP but adequate documentation is available and I have found that any questions will be answered on the comp.sys.hp48 newsgroup. Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Was there much difficulty folding in the algebraic entry option along with RPN? Just curious. I won't buy a straight algebraic calculator, and I have great difficulty using one when I have no alternative. I wonder whether programming that entry mode turned out to be as convoluted as I find using it. If you idea ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually, I've heard that the TI-92 was banned from the AP exams not because of the CAS, but because it has a separate alpha keyboard. Apparently, the separate keyboard of the 92 caused it to be classified as a laptop/notebook/portable computer (which are banned) instead of a calculator. Thus, the TI-89 which is functionally equivalent to the 92 isn't banned, but the 92 is. If you ask me, it seems kinda odd to ban it for just that reason alone since most high-end calcs allow you to type in alphabetic chars (HP48/49, TI-85/86/89) even though they don't have a -separate- alpha keyboard. I think the 92 is the only calculator banned on AP exams. I don't know if that'll change this year or not tho. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- the GX essentially has the SX Equation Card built-in. Those are the lowlights are: GUI-like interface. Try hpcalc.org for more info, they HAVE to have something... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The 48S is slower, has no menus, and fewer functions -- but if you don't need those functions it's very comparable, IMO. For me the biggest irritation was the low contrast display. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This brings up the question of who's keeping an up-to-date list of bugs that have been reported and verified to exist. We would also need to keep track of which bugs have been fixed in which ROM Ver. I'd imagine that HP ACO would like to hear about all of the bugs reported. But then, we all here wouldn't want to read about the same bugs numerous times....(like..There's a 1 on the top of my screen.....) With such a list we can steer posters to check the list first. I'm getting the impression that there many bugs - the list may have to be organized by catagories to help search it quickly. I think we need HP's imput on this, and that they may have their own list - no sense in reporting a bug when they already know about it. ( But we would like to know about them!) So far from what I've seen, I'm impressed, but I'm a little bummed by the nember of bugs. John Edry ---------------------------------------------------------------------- And with the number of bug report, this might need a classification system, and more maintenance. But it's an elegant solution. Any competent (that excludes me) volunteer? Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Repeat as often as you wish. MEM [ENTER] Go to Files, note memory. Repeat until dizzy. So.. what's going on? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- not reflect the opinion of third parties. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [ON] [ON] [ON] [ON] [ON] [ON] .... etc [ON] [ON] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- But need the drop be so large? What can I say -- I don't like programs leaving their droppings all over, even if it's as nice as Filer. Nothing I've used on the GX has been so nasty on the memory. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- the Garbage Collection is an all-or-nothing process.. you can't interrupt it, as it would leave memory in an inconsistent state. (interrupting a running program, by the way, triggers gc) And the 49 has 256k of memory. The other 256 is port memory, to which garbage collection does not apply. -- Werner Huysegoms remove the x before replying Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok.. so how about non-interrupted, but still relatively aware of being 'in-use'? Doesn't seem like it should be all that hairy, and would probably make the gc much less noticeable to the user. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ahem, isn't MEM supposed to do a GC _before_ reporting the amount of free memory ? BTW, a memory leak is easy to create -- a missing ABND will do it. Bye, Detlef -- `Let's get some cards and play Magic' Detlef Mueller -- Gex detlef (@) provi (.) de http://www.provi.de/~detlef http://pgp.ai.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x524F4049 !!! ATTN !!! To reach my via e-mail, do _NOT_ auto-reply !!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Good or GBASIS. Fred Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ptolserv.demon.co.uk:194.222.222.81 on Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:48:00 +0200 Michael_Hoppe@k2.maus.de (Michael What is the difference between the AUG and the AUR - I thought there was going to be an Advanced User (Guide)/(Reference) - is there a plan to have both an Advanced User Guide, _and_ an Advanced User Reference? If so, how will information be split between them? -- Julian Wald Silence is golden - but noise pays the bills! Low cost noise monitoring software for the PC - See http://www.ptolserv.com for details. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AUG, AUR, I say tomahto, you say tomato ... The thing is the RPN/Programming manual. Sometimes, HP calls it AUG, sometimes AUR. We seem to have chosen AUG. Be patient, it should be on HP's site around September 13th. -- Thierry Hautem-Morissette thmorissette@videotron.ca XK=LNzv6MRFp21v54OE4YkfQyPDr@4ax.com... between an http://www.ptolserv.com for details. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- on Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:04:54 -0400 Thierry Hautem-Morissette I had originally assumed that AUG == AUR, but what confused me was the comment by another poster: The implication being that AUG != AUR (the other implication is that the CAS is described in a separate manual). Oh well, I suppose I will just have to wait to see what is listed on my registration card :-) Will both/all the manuals be on the web site eventually, or just the AUG (or is it the AUR :) )? -- Julian Wald Silence is golden - but noise pays the bills! Low cost noise monitoring software for the PC - See http://www.ptolserv.com for details. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- My card says: Advanced Topics, Computer Algebra, Programming the HP 49G ---------------------------------------------------------------------- How far are greyscales implemented (# of shades) ? Are they available through uRPL ? And if not, as I guess, to what extent is sRPL on the HP49 documented yet ? David -- David Hanon phone : 32-2-650.55.29 ULB - CP 231 fax : 32-2-650.57.67 B-1050 Brussels, e-mail: David.Hanon@ulb.ac.be Belgium WWW : http://poseidon.ulb.ac.be/groupe/dh/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Out of interest for when or if I get a '49... Is there an easy way of distinguishing a 49 cable from a 200LX cable? If not I'll stick a big, bright-yellow label around one or the other else, sooner or later, they'll get mixed up in the drawer and I'll end up using the wrong one. -- Bruce Horrocks (...speaking for myself) Camberley, Surrey GU15 3PD. Email: Bruce.Horrocks@gecm.com GNET: 832 3032 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I can't help thinking that HP should spend perhaps $0.01 more per calculator and use better material for the screen. If this device is aimed at the student market, it needs to be fairly bombproof. Richard S. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Perhaps something like the crystal on a good wristwatch? That would be great. Meanwhile, buy a bottle of plexiglass cleaner and hairline scratch remover at your local auto parts store (USA lingo; I don't know what they're called in England; lorry component shoppe perhaps?). A little of that and a little elbow grease makes the 49G screen look brand new. -Joe- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Take care on what you apply the polish with. I scratched my screen using a kitchen cloth, and even with a qtip. Cotton balls works great, though, and removed the scratches from the previous effort. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- It only needs to be bombproof if it is aimed at the military market ;-) An earlier posting gave the top five reasons why 49's are so hard to find, the top one being to make students ring around different stores, thereby introducing them to the real world. I'd like to add that taking care of your property is also an introduction to the real world and $0.01 extra per calc won't buy a noticeably better screen is another one. -- Bruce Horrocks (...speaking for myself) Camberley, Surrey GU15 3PD. Email: Bruce.Horrocks@gecm.com GNET: 832 3032 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Disagree. It is within the bounds of the real world that things can easily rub on the screen and produce scratches *including paper* which is my own limit. I was disappointed in Lucite motorcycle shields as they scratched if a bug hit them- again, my limit, and something that is completely denying that the real world isn't perfect. JD -- Friends Don't Let Friends Use Windows ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff -- I think the basic choice is between something that will break, and something that will scratch. (A synthetic sapphire window is probably not a reasonable expectation . . . ) if ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I just found my HP48SX to PC connector (HP Part No.82208-80002) that I got through a back to school promotion from HP when I bought my SX many moons ago. It came with the 4 pin calculator connector on one end of the cable and a nine pin serial connector on the other end. It also came with a nine pin ( Male) to 25 pin( Female)gender changer. I noticed that there are only three pins on the male side of the gender changer. I think this means that only 3 lines will be going to and from the computer. I have a ten pin to 4 pin converter for the calculator that I use with my GX. Will this cable work with the 49? Harold A. Climer Lab Instructor Dept.Of Physics & Astronomy U. Tennessee at Chattanooga ---------------------------------------------------------------------- : well within the capabilities of the HP48). I understand you then need amplitude/phase angle data for the coast/harbor in question, as empirical constants, is that right? OK, that way around it's rather easy, given the list. -- Georg ZOTTI gzotti@unix.cslab.tuwien.ac.at ---------------------------------------------------------------------- good job! 37C99E30.9873F046@rbnet.com... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- hi! you have: www.hpcalc.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't see any real need to create a new news group dedicated to the 49. The amount of overlap between the 48 and 49 is more than sufficient to justify a single group. Besides, the same arguments were run through when the 48 replaced the 28 and again to a lesser extent when the gx replaced the sx. Funnily enough the comments about the 49 remind me a lot about the initial feelings about the 48 series. Pauli -- Dr Paul Dale | Mining Technology | pdale@mincom.com Mincom Limited | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- see the shortcut included 7qcddm$j6h$1@nnrp1.deja.com... begin 666 HP Calculators - 49G Graphic Calculator.url ---------------------------------------------------------------------- the hp technical support says mid september ---------------------------------------------------------------------- the HP48 to the HP49? When I attempt to do so, the library comes across as a string which I can't get the HP49 to recompile. I've tried JYA's OBJFIX program that he posted a few days ago, but still no luck. Will these libraries have to be recompiled specifically for the HP49 before they can be used? -- Karl E. Yeanoplos Denver, CO kyeanopl@ast.lmco.com Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You might be right, sometimes - but you need to be careful though; e.g. infinite/infinite, would that be reduced to 1? That will not be wanted, since you'll have to use l'hospotial in cases like that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HP49G. Here some background info: This last year I have gotten a little lazy and been using Chris Mumford's wonderful HP48 Explorer. Well, it's not working with the 49. When I do this with the 49, the program times-out with a communication error. If I try to send first to a 48 and transfer to a 49, I get an error which reads something like invalid object So... I blew the dust off Kermit, which worked great on my old DOS/Win 3.x machine. A side note: when I went to Win 95, I could only get Kermit to work if I was, of course, in DOS mode, but not in the little DOS box--I had to boot up into DOS mode. But now, with Win98, things don't work at all. I try to run Kermit and get an error which reads something like Invalid instruction and then the whole system locks up--time to kill the power a start up all over agin. Does anybody have any good tips or tricks you could pass on before I pull my Gregory Warsewicz-Savage Remove x to reply. What we really need instead of MS-Win is a 32-bit, multi-tasking DOS---hummm, it's starting to sound like.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- : Wouldn't you do better with the soundcard for the 48 I saw described : recently (hpcalc.org, I believe)? Duly noted. However, I recall asking on comp.sys.h[something] some years ago about doing greyscale images on an HP48. The ensuing discussion included a good assortment of technically valid reasons for why it couldn't be done or would never happen. The sound quality will of course be worse than that from the teeny weeny speakers in my Omnibook, and stereo is out of the question, but I'll bet somebody here can make the bender sing and dance. Ray I want my MP3 Depew ---------------------------------------------------------------------- weeny bet Well... there are (at least) two soundcard projects around, one from ZDI and one from a friend of mine, they can play wav files, and will be able to record sound too, the stereo can be added if you don't mind pluging some earphones to your calc (i would really love to see some TI owner's face when that happens), however mp3 would certainly require hardware decompression, and that's not something easy to build. But who knows what the saturn can do... Steve Sousa Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not saying you couldn't pipe it through the speaker. I'm just questioning the quality, and whether it's worth the effort beyond the excercise. The greyscale on the 48/49 and my Palm 3 isn't all that great, either, imho. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SOLVESYS 4.03 has been released and is available from http://www.student.dtu.dk/~c947086/hp48.html release. An HP49G release is planned if/when HP releases new entry points. Sune Bredahl ---------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.infopiu.it/computers/ you'll find good prices! Infopiu Staff! Se cerchi un negozio elettronico dove trovare le calcolatrici HP e la nuova HP49G prova: http://www.infopiu.it/computers/ troverai ottimi prezzi e spedizioni in tutta Italia. Infopiu Staff! Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hmmm.....I think the exact keystrokes on a recently purchased ti89 are 1 + 1 enter. The exact keystrokes on a recently purchased hp49 are 1 + 1 enter. That's strange. The hp49 is not harder to use than the ti89. In fact, I'm sure I would find it *far* more intuitive. :-) Really, though, if you want to use each calculator to its fullest, you'll have to break out the manual. The difference is, the hp49's fullest is far more than the ti89's fullest. Jeremy ---------------------------------- If i ever forget to capitalize a proper noun, forgive me. i'm a big fan of ee cummings Have a good day, and good luck in your endeavors! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- the long run. I also think that the calculator you choose now (in high school) will most likely be the same brand at least (maybe even the same model) that you will use when you are an engineer ten years from now. if you are the type of person who would find it 'fun' to sit down and read that manual, write little programs to prove to yourself that you understand a concept, and aren't content until you've made it through every page....you'll love your HP. i'll bet you'll also make an excellent engineer. if you are the type who would rather not read the manual, but be able to use most of the features right away...with minimal use of the manual, you'll like the TI. heck, you may have much better things to do with your time than read that manual. lots of people do. but to me, the calculator you use in college is a big deal. it is your tool. if you know it inside and out, you'll learn more, get excited about how you programmed your calculator to solve some new problem...and probably be the guy answering everyone else's questions. just my .02 oh yea, and don't forget to learn mathcad too. hehe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------- If i ever forget to capitalize a proper noun, forgive me. i'm a big fan of ee cummings Have a good day, and good luck in your endeavors! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- And if it is released, will there be a UNIX or OS/2 version? JD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- First of all the manual says to edit a usr RPL variable, I think it calls it just a variable, that one should use the file browser thing the press NEXT NEXT and F4 which is EDITB. Being the slightly, at least, informed kind of guy that I am, I put 'prog' on stack and type in EDITB as a command. When I hit enter the stack var, 'prog', come up wanting me to edit the name, not the contents as in the case w/the 48 series. Furthermore the same is true if I just try EDIT. So why do I have to do this through the file browser thingy? Is there an easier way? This leads me to my next must-avoid item. I hate the menus...is there a way to avoid the menus a la the 48G/GX? Those 2 calcs you could get/do the same thing via softkeys. Usually meant pressing right shift vs. pressing left shift. I have found no way to bypass the menus of the 49g. Anyone else know of a way? Finally, how the hell do you convert a unit to a different base? Say I want to convert 1_yd to ft. On the 48 series you get to the units, go to length, put a 1 on stack (if you wan to avoid error beep), press yd which changes the 1 on the stack to 1_yd. To convert I'd just press right shift and the desired lenght I wanted it converted to, in this case I'd press ft. This would have the desired effect of changing/converting the 1_yd on stack 1 to 3_ft. On the 49g it seems to be much more of a pain in the ass! If I trudge through the damnably evil menus find my first unit say yd I can get the 1_yd on the stack easily enough...or I can manually type in 1_yd, which is infinitely annoying but much faster than menu-hell. Anyway so now I'm wanting to convert my 1_yd to ft. Intuitively I guess that I would leave it on the stack go through the menus to the unit I want to convert it to. So I do just that. What I get is 1_yd*ft. This is clearly not what I wanted. Can anyone let me in on the trick? Gary Wolfe gwolfe@primenet.com -- ---------------------- Balls up, KingFish! gwolfe@primenet.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Put the program name on the stack, then [left shift][down] will edit the program, not the program name. Flag -117. Stew Weber sweber@ece.usu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- And there's also a command 'VISIT' for doing this. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Has anyone successfully spliced a HP48g serial cable to the HP49G calc to calc cable and had it work. If so please post how to do it. The university bookstore doesn't know then they will receive the HP49G serial cable. Also, how is everybody transferring programs to their HP49G. (Which program are you using?) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, I'm going round-about until my pc cable for the 49 comes in. pc ---------------------------------------------------------------------- it is 'startup' 'startoff' Shutdown. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -Joe- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Moreover, HP (or any other company) could do the same thing. The 49G's body then becomes a shell, the vehicle for an entire line of products that differ only in their flash mem contents and their functionality. Yewgotcher financial calc, yer scientific calc, yer HP-16C-style kapewter science calc, yer Gameboy-killer, and so on .... Keyboard overlays would be back in style. And when the next ration of the 49G comes out, barring any hardware changes, it'll be instantly available on CD or on the hpcalc website. TI might even decide to stop building calc HW: their new calcs will be TI OS's running on the HP platform. (Heh -- that would be like downloading Windows and running it on a Linux box.) Ray ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cool, so when is Linux available for the 49? Eu machine. body differ financial downloading ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (FreeBSD/2.2.7-19980825-SNAP (i386)) I remember the subject being brought up a while ago about using [ON]+spc to activate coma mode on the HP49. (Reading on page 80 of the pocket guide...) I tried using this, and the result.. nothing. I also tried using [ON]+[F1] to obtain a screen dump. This also does not seem to work -- the I/O symbol in the upper-right does not light. [APPS], I/O Functions, Print Display (and Print...) both work well. Any ideas what might be going on? The [ON]+[F3], [F4], [F5], [+] and [-] sequences seem to work as expected. I'm not sure about [ON]+[F2], as I'm not sure exactly how it should work. (E.g. I hold down [NXT] and while pressing it, additionally key in [ON]+[F2] and then release [NXT], but it has no effect. In theory, shouldn't this have canceled the [NXT] keypress? I've yet to try [ON]+[F1]+[F6] as I'm not quite eager to erase my memory. (Though, the other night after using RISCH and then pressing [DOWN] to edit the result, the screen became garbled and I received the Recover memory? prompt. (I tried the problem again, and it did not re-produce.. I will keep working on this one.) About an hour later after reloading the memory, which was completely lost, my screen just blanked out while working with the calc. The on button was completely ineffective, but the reset button brought it back to life. I once again received the Recover memory? prompt, and this time the calc was able to restore a portion on what had been in memory.) Are these same types of problems happening to other HP49 users? I am especially curious about the [ON] sequences, as I'd like to use [ON]+[F1] to get screen dumps. Samson ---------------------------------------------------------------------- It seems that is not a 49 bug, but a pocket guide one ;) These two functions are unimplemented in the 49, but still documented. It is funny to see that the function index of the pocket guide documents the 48 functions, not the numerous new functions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I got reports of random crashes w/ memory clear, and I managed to get one myself. This seems to be related to ROM C#1.05, I tested it quite a while on C#1.10 w/o any problems. So I'd strongly suggest not to use it w/ ROM C#1.05 ! Sorry for the inconvenience, Detlef -- `Let's get some cards and play Magic' Detlef Mueller -- Gex detlef (@) provi (.) de http://www.provi.de/~detlef http://pgp.ai.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x524F4049 !!! ATTN !!! To reach my via e-mail, do _NOT_ auto-reply !!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Try typing VERSION [ENTER] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Typing in VER will give you the CAS's version ---------------------------------------------------------------------- comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos:9330 comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action:76016 comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure:36171 Let's take a survey... 1) Women are not paid to talk to horny fat geeks at this number a) true b) false 2) Women on this line are actual females, and not horny fat transvestites a) true b) false 3) Crossposting smut spammers are providing an appreciated service in the NG. a) true b) false available here ---------------------------------------------------------------------- comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos:9331 comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action:76021 comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure:36172 Gee, can I really do this on my HP49?! Wowee! -- Games/ Curiosity killed the cat. And, in fact, curiosity could kill Schr232dinger's Cat -- and quite often does -- 50% of the time. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I had ordered an HP49 and accessories from Wholesale Products via the HP48.org's page recommendation. I have had terrible service and very little interaction with the company, not even a response or fax that it was acknowledged. Has anyone else dealt with this company and have suggestions? -David ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I ordered mine through them and it arrived a couple days ago. No complaints here. -Sean -- __ . ahern@llnl.gov ( _ _.._ /||_ _ ._._ Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory __)(/_(_|| ) /-|| )(/_| | ) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I received my HP49g for them today. I had to follow up a bit, but all in all they weren`t that bad. Eric ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- a Have Yes, I did check the interrupts and there were no conflicts--this is one of those brand named computers where the OS is pre-loaded and they give a Recovery Disk with pre-formatted image of it along with a bunch of other crap on it. I like to install just what I need and nothing else--to keep the system from being cluttered with junk and to conflicks under control. Also, I tried to do a transfer at work with NT, but I had problems there too. I was able to get a DOS box, and the PC and HP did the handshake thing, but nothing transfered. I checked the port, the baud and the parity settings, but everything seemed OK. It timed out after a while, but pressing Enter on the PC initiated another retry and the calculator beeped, and the little I/O icon on the HP status line flickered--but still no transfer. I am going retro-tech soon. Greg S ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Engineers are always plagued buy things not being *just right* -- we are a fastidious lot. You will enjoy it very much in calculus. I have fond memories of staying up into the early morning hours playing with the calculator while I was supposed to be doing homework. Gregory Warsewicz-Savage ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I was wondering how you change the base displayed in the status area. My 49 came up in HEX and I want DEC. I seached the documentation and could not find a reference to it. Eric Pierson ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Have you tried the BASE menu? [right shift][3] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Press [LEFT ARROW]-[MTH], then choose [BASE] from the menu. Nick Karagiaouroglou Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- have you tried typing DEC? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I think I used to write the power routine in pascal like this: x^y=exp(y*ln(x)) I think both EXP and LOG are available in Pascal (at least turbo-p.) Christian -- Christian Meland Research Scientist, PFI N-7491 Trondheim, Norway Phone +4773550976, at home/cell +47 73574614/95961631 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Just want to know if anyone else has a rainbow effect (lot of colour in a bow shape) in the screen when you watch it in daylight? Pelle ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, my hp49 has also this effect. But I don't know if it is a serious problem. I thing this effect has to do with tension in the glas. Nick Karagiaouroglou Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- better, is there a way I can modify (program, etc.) my Hp-48G to do these? Jerrod ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On many of the HP calculators, including all the 48s and the 49, you can set the display of real numbers to any number of significant digits from 1 to 12, inclusive, in scientific notation. There are several other display options as well. I don't know of any program which will select the correct number of significant digits for a given calculation automatically. -- Virgil vmhjr@frii.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- to I have tried a few things, but without success. One problem may be that your text-editor has modified the file (inserted chr(13) before every newline). I tried removing those, but it wasn't enough. Do you have a file that has not been opened and saved again on the pc? Christian ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Help me if you know something!! I' ve tried to store Jazz6.7 and Java36a in my hp. I stored Jazz with succes and so with Java I tried both separately quite a bit of time and both seemed to work quite well The problem comes if I want to Store Jazz6.7 also with Java. Always happens the same thing: It works fine for some days, but after 5 or 5 days the calculator itself crashes and erases every library in port 0 but not leaving the memory free so I have to reset the calc and start uploading the programs again. Maybe is because of Java. I haved some problems before with another program called allmem based on memview and happened things like that. Please if you know something about it, send a note. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- What about using [B] to extract one column/row (X), again [B] to extract the other column/row (Y) (I may be wrong with the order, I just don't remember...) and [PLOT] (once enabled the scatter mode)? The other good solution (the best ever) is to read carefully the user manual Daniel L227pez ---------------------------------------------------------------------- but this is the only thing you explain in it that I couldn't do. Everything else works as explained. It's a very good program indeed. The solution you give here however, extracts two lists with {} delimiters like { {1} {2} ... {n} } Is this to be converted to an array then? If so, how? Carlos J. Mart222nez the manual ---------------------------------------------------------------------- things like the stack display, command line, keep track of the time, to the user; the rest is reserved for the system. Similarly, a 128K far closer than 96K). A 32K HP48G has about 28K available for the user. That would account for the 10K or so to 256K; I think the other half is in a port (port 1?). As I said, just a guess. I do not own (and don't plan to buy) a 49 so can't say for sure. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ah! Of course! I forgot. The ports. Yes. Forgot them because the 49G doesn'n have any expansion slots like my good old 48SX and 48GX ... Ok. I switched to the LIB menu and saw four entries: HP49D, :0:, :1: and :2:, the first being a nice HP49G demo, library 1234. Then I remembered the MERGE command and looked up my 49 pocket guide: the stack diagram says I have to put the constant 1 in stack level one and then type in MERGE. I did this. All I got was a MERGE Error: Bad Argument Type. Same with a 1. on stack level one. :-( So: how do I merge ports on the 49? And what about port 2? Any discussions about this here recently that I missed? I think this should definitely go into the 49FAQ! Stefan. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- they Sorry. would be a GX with port 1 already merged. Here, with the 49, port 1 appears merged permanently, and port 2 is now called port 0(otheriwse, with port 1 merged, you couldn't write to port 1. Either way, memory is still managed in 128k chunks. Makes sense? Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Main memory, Port 0, is 256Kb. The rest of your memory is in 2 128Kb ports, 1 & 2. You can do an ON-E and then the memory test (full), I think and it'll show you. Or go to the libs/ports and check it ou tthat way.. I'm wondering if both of those could be merged such that a full 512Kb could be seen as port 0, or main memory? Hope this helps, Gary Wolfe gwolfe@primenet.com -- ---------------------- Balls up, KingFish! gwolfe@primenet.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- So what's SV stand for? Any other prefixes I should know about? Ray ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I finally rigged up a cable to work with the HP49G and I have successfully transferred programs using HPCOMM, but I am still having a problem. Some of the programs that I download to the calc show up in the VAR with the string HPHP49-C or something to that effect. I have tried using OBJFIX but I haven't had any luck. Does anyone know how what I am doing wrong, or if there is a PC program that will remove the invalid characters before sending (or whatever). BTW, I think that the HP49G is great, I have already put my TI-89 in the bottom drawer with the others.(Casio, TI, old HP's) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually, it's closer to regarding, not replay. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Anyway, this is relative, as I and others probably feel honored to be in the Schoorl, Prof. Parisse and all the other people have contributed so much to the HP community over the years... This is a great group! Carlos J. Mart222nez prefix sure the ---------------------------------------------------------------------- There's a whole lineup of his and other books from Grapevine at Stanford U... I think I'm just a long-winded user, not the guru like the others. I still need to learn ML... Though I admit, I don't mind the flattery :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- My HP48GX version R has started not wanting to recover memory when I reset it. I often use dangerous betaversion of new software, such as Java 3.7b for testing purposes. When (not if :-)) it crashes, I try to ON-A-F it. It asks the dreaded question and I say yes. Now it recovers memory, and it recovers and it just keeps on recovering... Once I left it for over an hour and nothing happened! I've even used the hardware reset behind the upper right rubber foot to clean the calc, but it doesn't help. I tried removing the batteries once and drained the remaining power by pressing a lot of keys simultaneously for a few seconds. I thought that would make the calc stop. Then I switched it on (well, I put the batteries back in first :-)). Surely, it was totally clean, and just for a laugh (oh, yes!) I pressed ON-A-F, and answered yes. But it kept on recovering and recovering... ??????? Why???????? I know my HP has functioned properly, and it usually recovered for only a few seconds before returning to a normal state. But after the first time it did that, I've never been able to recover memory. Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- My HP48GX version R has started not wanting to recover memory when I reset it. I often use dangerous betaversion of new software, such as Java 3.7b for testing purposes. When (not if :-)) it crashes, I try to ON-A-F it. It asks the dreaded question and I say yes. Now it recovers memory, and it recovers and it just keeps on recovering... Once I left it for over an hour and nothing happened! I've even used the hardware reset behind the upper right rubber foot to clean the calc, but it doesn't help. I tried removing the batteries once and drained the remaining power by pressing a lot of keys simultaneously for a few seconds. I thought that would make the calc stop. Then I switched it on (well, I put the batteries back in first :-)). Surely, it was totally clean, and just for a laugh (oh, yes!) I pressed ON-A-F, and answered yes. But it kept on recovering and recovering... ??????? Why???????? I know my HP has functioned properly, and it usually recovered for only a few seconds before returning to a normal state. But after the first time it did that, I've never been able to recover memory. Oh, well, maybe I should go for that 49'er anyway. :-) Henrik Mikael Kristensen Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I would like to run metakernel on EMU48. I own the rom card version 2.2 of metekernel and would like to know 1) is it legal to use on the emulator 2) how can this be done? I have copied the contents from port 1 to port 2 on my EMU48 program? Also, if this is not legal. Is there a file manager similar to the one that exists in the metakernel card? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- x = 1. Is it left to the user to check the result (for example with SUBST)? Michael -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (x-1)/[(x+1)(x-1)] = 0 1/(x+1) = 0 .. with undefined value at x=1 I don't see how it gets x=1 from this, except by (x-1)/(x^2-1) = 0 x-1 = 0 x = 1 But of course, this is a common mistake and should be trapped. Always a good idea. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 3 + LOG(111) and right afterwards type ALOG (i.e., 10^x): ALOG(3 + LOG(111)). I'm not able to simplify this result back to 111000 by any of the 49's Now we change (1) to 111 e 3 ^ * LN and simplify it with TEXPAND: LN(111) + 3*1, then EXP and TEXPAND again: 111*EXP(3). Why is LOG-ALOG treated differently from LN-EXP? Michael -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Does the PCMCIA Ram card are compatible with the Hp48 Ram Card, I have got 2 '64Ko' PCMCIA card and I would like to have more memory on my HP48 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- : At this time it was the Kingdom of Spain but he was born in an area that is : now Portugal... The Italians claim him as their own. Cristoforo Colombo was born in any tourist trapped in that city. He couldn't get financing from his trip, so he went to Portugal and to Spain. The Spanish called him Cristobal Colon. (That's an accent grave over the o, I think.) Ray ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is the bug you're intending to talk about? The rest of it says 'feature' to me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I just got my HP49G from BBMarketing here in Sweden, and thought I too would give my first impression of this new toy of mine. First of all I must say that I was rather sceptical when it first was this group, that sort of changed my mind from the first disappointment to a must test this new stuff-feeling. I think it feels more solid and better built than my old HP48GX (from 1993 or 1994) which I can twist and push the case a bit to get some sqeaks (irritating noises) from. The keys are rather good, but I keep getting the thought in my head that the text on them will disappear with some use, do not know if that will happen, but it feels that way. !), and looks much nicer in real life than on the pictures on the net. I too have the annoying rainbow at the top of the screen, which seems to be a standard feature ! The version is HP49-C/1.05 as everybodys else's. I must comment the roumor about the registration card that you are forced to choose 1 of 3 books, my card says that I can choose 1 or more books ! That should mean that one could have all 3 if there is need for them ! In the Flash-memory I found a demo-library, number 1234 with size 106 kbytes, which gives a rather nice run-through of the features of the HP49G. Is this library something that is put in every HP49G or can one copy it from from the system-Flash ? What I miss (already) is some kind of AUG, but I hope to get that soon ! The firsts impressions this far are good, but I have only had it for 5-6 hours yet ! Keep up the frontiers work Joe K Horn, I am waiting for some new thrilling features ! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 49, and they all say that they aren't going to get it until JANUARY. Darn it, darn it, darn it. Luke ---------------------------------------------------------------------- So drive to Portland, or mail order... 1. Using the equation writer. This cost A LOT OF time and I always have to manually say go into algebraic mode and finally press the EVAL-Button. 2. Using the algebraic mode by pressing the '-Key. This ist fast, but not more comfortable then the equation-writer: First I have to press the '-Key, than type in my math. expression, press ENTER and EVAL. Not comfortable, too. 3. Using a algebraic-simulator. I've found 2 programme: algebraic calculator and calc III. the algebraic calculator is much to slow, and with calc III, I can not use ( or the equation-writer. Calc III has some bugs, too. So, anyone has a good suggestion how to use the HP48G as a calculator? My Ti30X (simple, cheap calculator) is easier to use. Joachim Get a HP49. There you've all possibilities to get rid of the shit. PS. I wonder what level has the Technical University Aachen if students like you are there immatriculated :-) 1A. Use the HP for a week, and you'll never go back to algebraic You don't need to type ENTER, just EVAL. That would be a bit like buying a top-of-the-line aircraft and installing a set of WWI-era controls to fly it. Then maybe that's what you should be using. Neill McKay Anything better than RPN? Yes, knowing how to use it ;-) -- Linux Registered User: 202 170 Kernel 2.4.1 http://xie121.infovia.xtec.es/~rblasco Un222os, hermanos linuxeros A high level!!! I'm affraid HP49 would be much more beyond his capabilities. First, he should try to learn how to use an abacus. I can guess: Business & Management faculty is pretty strong... ;-) Sorry I couldn't help myself :-) Once I learned RPN I forgot about using algebraic notation for entering data. I will never do it again - slow, ineficient, error-prone relic of stone era. (I love HP48G which I own for 4 years; I saw HP49G in store twice but couldn't decide to buy it - I still have mixed feelings about it...) Piotr or any illegal or copyrighted postings. http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! To co ja ci radze, o ile posiadasz forcy. Najtaniey u CYNOX. Nie bediesz zalowac. Polish Notation (PN) was developed at the begin of the 20th century in Lw227w (Lemberg). At that time a famous Polish center of mathematics and logic. PN was not invented by Lukasiewicz alone but was a teamwork of several logicians, to handle axiomatic investigations in formal calculi of two- or many-valued logic. RPN, used in several programming languages (not only by HP) is simply the reversed or mirrored notation. It is totally simple and natural, easily understood by a 7 year old child not yet spoiled by the medievian bracket notation of arithmetical terms. Why then the bracket notation is still in use? The ansnwer is simple: Our brain, if not specially trained, doesn't like reading condensed information - in contrast to computers. It likes it to be thinned, similarly to our preference of thinned alcohol over some 98%-alcohol drinks, say :-) The bracket notation also goes slightly more conform with the way of speaking in most natural languages, although one can imagin other civilizations which use a bracket-free notation throughout. Pretty good! Where did you learn Polish? my HP48G. But having 'flash' ROM would also be nice - that why I still cannot decide whether to stay with 48 or switch to 49. 49 seems to be more powerfull and much more featured/sophisticated. It is very frustrating that 49's built quality is so poor. [...] I think you are partailly right. I like 'algebraic' display. But, despite I'm a human, I much stronger prefer RPN for entering data. (However, I still prefer beer to 98% alcohol...) Well, my brain melted when I tried to use more than 5 levels of parenthesis. ;-) 'Algebraic' notation only looks 'cool' but for extensive number crunching is 'a pain in the ass'. Piotr or any illegal or copyrighted postings. illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! That's exactly what I meant. In the past HP was too good... The problem is that it is very difficult for me to downgrade my expectations now ;-) Piotr abuse@cwo.net.au 4. Learn to use Polish notation! It really is quite easy and natural once you get the hang of it - I always make mistakes and strugle when using a non RPN calculator now. The great thin about RPN on the 48 is you actually see the stack making it even easier to learn. Mark -------------------------------------------- Mark Richardson. m.richardson@utas.edu.au Member of SMASH (Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheist with a Sense of Humor) -------------------------------------------------- I think the build quality of the HP49G is at least as good as the HP48. I have dropped my HP49G twice on the floor, without it even stopping to calculate. Mine has probably been on for about 1600-2000 hours (got it when it was released), all keys are still pristine, the screen has no scratches, the serial port works fine, and nothing is wrong with it. Hm, that does not work. I hope I used in your code correctly - I typed in everything except the . When I press ALG and type in, for example, 5+8 ENTER, it says: Invalud Syntax :-( Joachim or any illegal or copyrighted postings. illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! Appears to work OK on my 48G. Why anyone would want to do it is another matter entirely! Sean or any illegal or copyrighted postings. the size should be 109 and the checksum should be #C58Eh When you use the program, the two single-quote characters should already appear, and what you then type gets inserted *between* these two characters, automatically creating an algebraic expression like this: '5+8' If you left out the quote characters from the program string (or the number 2 in the list, which initially positions the cursor during INPUT), then this might not have worked for you. ----- Original message ----- The HP49 ALG mode simulator for the HP48 (junior edition) << -55 CF 28 MENU { '' 2 ALG V } IFERR INPUT THEN 0 MENU DROP2 ELSE 0 MENU Good luck (and try RPN some time, too!) http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! abuse@cwo.net.au Does anyone in the HP world know, or can give any indication on how long the HP48 models are going to be still made? I currently have both a HP48GX and HP49G with many programs for them. I find the HP48GX a more practical calculator for my line of work and am happy that this model is now stable although I will admit that the HP49G is a far superior calculator. Why am I asking do you say? Well I'm a bit concerned that HP decided to discontinue the HP42 models a year or so ago and would hope the HP48 doesn't suffer the same outcome as well in the short term. I hope the HP48 models still continues for at least the next 10 years. Noel Causerano Surveyor Australia the quality, RPN & named variables. I dislike the screen contrast & speed. I had to use a TI83+ for a statistics class and I am comfortable with it but every time I use it I feel like I am using a toy. Every time I use the HP48 I feel like I am using a ten-year-old computer. Is there light at the end of the tunnel? Are there faster ways to plot other than going through multiple menus? By the way, I currently use the TI83+ for class and the HP32SII for work. or any illegal or copyrighted postings. illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) like & using a ten-year-old plot use http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! I have heard about communication between 48 and Psion 3 mx via IRDA. Can someone provide information about this? Which version of ROM is the latest for the HP48G(X) ?? What are the differences between ROM versions? Is it possible to upgrade? Claus Futtrup Revision R, I believe. They're listed in the FAQ. http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/faq/ No. -- Nate Eldredge neldredge@hmc.edu or any illegal or copyrighted postings. I'm a newbie in 48G, so if anyone can explain me how to connect HP48G with PC via IR? I have IRDA adapter. The IR on the the '48 series is not IRDA compatible. or any illegal or copyrighted postings. illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) certain computers, as many others report no success at all. You can experiment with different settings and report back with the results if you are successful in your attempt! Dennis with the HP, you need to disable IRDA support in the OS, and then use the IRDA port as a non-standard serial port, set the speed to 4800, and that should work to send and recieve, using any protocol. I have not tried this yet, but perhaps it is worth a try. Another alternative is to build/buy a serial to IR converter, I have the schematics for a rather complicated one that I found by searching GOOGLE with the search IR RS-232 Transceiver. I plan to build it, not for this application though, for another controll project. Jon : I'm a newbie in 48G, so if anyone can explain me how to connect HP48G with : PC via IR? : I have IRDA adapter. -- --- - | | email:jmilley@engr.mun.ca |Never Say OOPS! | | ||| web:jmilley.dezines.com |always say... (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) I heard a rumor that the 48 is being discontinued. Can anyone in this group tell me if this is correct. If correct, when will this happen. Sorry if this is old news, I read old posts to try and get current. is it possible that my HP48G-calculator is untypical slow? For example, if I start programs like plot or time, it costs always about 1 second until the screen is completely drawed. Plotting the following function: - Type: function - metrics: Radiant - Equation:'1/X' - H-view -2 to 2 - V-View -10 to 10 - Autoscale: off in an empty picture (after pressing the erase-Button) takes about 12 seconds from the moment I press Draw until the busy-sign has gone. Seems to be too slow, not? Joachim on my GX with MetaKernel v.2.20 it takes between 8.5 and 9 seconds from pressing Draw til the busy annunciator disappear just my 0.02 Martin I just did this and 12 seconds is about right. Forrest maybe something like PowerPlot or SpeedGraph could help. If you want a faster GUI then you could try UIStuff 1.0 All on hpcalc.org. Raymond I think your 12 seconds are OK. The program time for setting up the PICT environment. (EDITing functions etc.) You see it is not only drawing but also other work, which the small SATURN has to do. Nick [CapitalYAcute].8b.96.87¿.8c .8e.97.99.95.96§.87 .8b.96.86.9a.95.92[ OH at][AAcute][OGrave]: I don`t think so. 48GX here, Revision R, no Metakernel (yet :-). The plot you specified takes about 12,5s (a cell phone chronometer is not so accurate, you have to trust me on this...). Clock frequency: 3,757MHz -- Zorz [Summer is here, this time for good :-) ] http://users.auth.gr/iilias which it can also be made to do faster. ;-) -- Aaron. And how? Nick btw, this takes 12.03 seconds (for 'sin(x)' stored in EQ) for me, according to TIM. Maybe you are using #2 RES ? Using this method takes 7.4 seconds. http://c51100-e.rchdsn1.tx.home.com/hp48/ppl134.zip or if you are feeling ambitious: http://c51100-e.rchdsn1.tx.home.com/hp48/ppf_03_beta.zip I don't know how the HP48's graphing utility works, but I'm guessing the reason for it being so slow is due to copious amounts of argument, error, and sanity checking. If you can spare the space in memory and you use graphing from time to time, you might want to check out one of the programs above. The second one is (as the filename suggests) a beta. -- Aaron. Yes, I used #2 RES. Nick What is this? What do the programs do? Joachim the links are the zipped files of Power Plot Light and Power Plot Full, software for quicker plotting than the built-in HP49-functions. Happy plotting, Nick for individual acknowledgement. I will try a software solution. I have not yet got a connection lead and have no idea what a userRPL is, so I have a lot to learn about the 48GX. I have been happy with my 41CV for the last 15 years, and had no idea that HP had made such advances in calculator technology. If anyone would like an HP41 printer (batteries completely u/s) and wand I will ship them to the first person who prepays carriage. I still occasionally use the card reader , although I had to make a new rubber wheel inside this as the original had become sticky through old age! HP 48 GX (rev R), includes -case -128 k HP card -1 meg HP card -2 serial cables -manuals (user's & programmers & sys RPL manuals) $100 respond to: bryanmonosmith@earthlink.net Flash ROM is incomparably more convenient than but needs a lot of manipulation on a HP48G with I cannot confirm your claim on poor quality. My 1 year old 49 has been buisy over 1200 (!) hours which would have cost more then 100 expensive batteries (I use Rayovac rechargeables instead). Keys operate smooth and relyable. The only traces of an intensive use are that the coloured imprints on the DonwArrow and Backspace keys are gone. If I would have reclaimed warranty in time, CYNOX might have given me another one. But then I had to separate from my baby at least 15 days. That's too much, so I kept it and I love it more than ever. or any illegal or copyrighted postings. illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) Barry http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! or any illegal or copyrighted postings. My backups are identical on my 48 or 49 (using simple programs); a port is a port is a port ... The Filer is nice, however (and is available for 48GX too!) Updating the ROM is actually the flashiest benefit (sayeth an owner of an HP48G, version M, forever condemned to remain frozen in its early 1993 infantile state :) http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! I mean a s a f e backup, protected against crashes (clearly a necessity for a SysRPL programmer). Maybe you've got a Ramcard delux whose write protection can be controlled via program. I've only a cheap Ramcard from CYNOX whose write protection can be activated or deactivated only by opening the HP48GX card box :-) IMHO, a Filer is not needed on the HP48. Or do you have a 48-Filer which not only reads the contents of a write- data exchange? or any illegal or copyrighted postings. but erroneous purging and storing ;) I imagine that some people have managed to wipe out a high port, but does everyone remember Dave or Jim explaining how hard that would be to do on a 48? Of course, if you keep a port-to-port card copier program around, and accidentally execute it yourself... BTW, in Emu49, if you accidentally cause writing to port 2, then you can't undo it -- it's written into file rom.e49 -- but you can make that read-only on the computer, as opposed to being unable to make it read-only in the actual calculator. Wasn't there an MK (with a filer) for HP48? Why do we need it on a 49 but less so on a 48? Aside from the all-important CAS (with its EQW), and added details like hold/long/double... key assignments, what's the great difference between a 48 and a 49, and how does that impact needing/not needing a filer? I don't understand the argument; somehow I manage to treat my HP48 and 49 exactly the same (with virtually identical programs on them), including for making backups into high ports, and I have not heard exactly why it was any more impossible to unintentionally write into flash than to write into covered HP48 ports (but both impossibilities are reported by some people). I'd be happy to hear why the previously posted experiences of others were unrepresentative of reality, if they were. It even seems to me that flipping a card switch was extremely easy on a 48, and afforded a more absolute level of write protection there than a 49 can offer, since even UserRPL PURGE and STO can not be prevented from acting on port 2 from acting on ports in a 48. Somehow I think that you have a different perspective, however, as we always seem to be on opposite sides of some kind of wall or curtain -- or maybe it's just the astrological difference between our time zones http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! The things I love most about MK (apart from the stack replacement) are the Filer and the Matrixwriter (hate that it doesn't have a VEC toggle). Being a structural engineer I do not care a lot about the Equation Writer, nor about a CAS. To me it looks like all these people who are into the CAS are mathematics students? (or is structural engineering so easy compared to other fields? hmmm.....) Caspar -- That's amazing since 1200 hours / 8 hours a day = 150 days. Claus Futtrup In a way, yes, since flash chips need a special pin to be activated with the appropriate voltage to allow write operations. The fact that erasing/reorganizing a bank is a slow process allows the user to find out when something goes wrong. I had such unexplained losses, but they weren't (in my case) subsequent to SysRPL crashes. I think they were caused by the bug that came with an early version of the HP49's system. With the latest ROM (at least), I never lost anything from any port other than port zero, despite a few crashes (provoked by me, needless to say, although I have some doubts about EDITG). card in port 1 of a HP48GX. hard, because it required a reboot. In my experience, the HP49's port 2 David Haguenauer http://zap.to/hsimpson Looking for 128 ram card and/or 512 or 1meg for my hp48gx. Please contact me at this address. Rui (1-2Mb) cheeper than hp manifactured ones, they are really good product?!? And the double speed module whot is it? Can someone suggest a business contact,plz. Acrux sorry, i'm from italy cheap, very good quality and the company is trustworthy IMHO. If you like the HP48 then stick with it - the changes made to turn it into the HP49 (squishy buttons, odd display, relocated enter key, no manuals) may drive you nuts. Roland I was under the impression that if one were to install Erable and alg48, then the hp48gx would do the same symbolic CAS functionality as the 49G. What would be missing? I am in the process of deciding between the two. pubnews.netcom.net.uk!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!newsfeed.icl.net!sk y net.be!news.stealth.net!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!news-server.bigpond.net.au ! not-for-mail 08:17:34 EST) Unfortunately, the few you're talking about are probably the only who can run on a DOS based machine. And it will be REALLY slow. All the emulator I've seen running on DOS, require at least a Pentium 90. On a 80186 CPU running at 10Mhz, you're dreaming :) You made a terrible choice. I would buy a HP49 if I didn't already own a HP48GX. Why buy the HP48 now, I wonder? Your Eblish is excused. /Daniel -- Daniel Lidstr232m danli97 at ite.mh.se 62 23' 25 N 17 15' 31 E More straight-forward, better glare-free display, IR interface, plug-in cards, and if you don't need the CAS or long integers, you can save quite a few pennies when choosing for HP48GX Brgds, Fabrizio Your choice was fine. The 48 is a good calculator. Some people like it a lot better than the 49. -Scott I was under the impression that if one were to install Erable and alg48, then the hp48gx would do the same symbolic CAS functionality as the 49G. Is this not true? That way, you would have the hp48gx with CAS and symbolic or textbook screen display. Someone please correct this if it's wrong. On Fri, 11 May 2001 14:48:25 +0200, F a b r i z i o a I have no problem with the display, it seemed fine to me. The ir interface is useless, I haven't used it for a couple of years. It's only good if you have two HP48's (I did for awhile). Why do you need plug in cards? All the software you'll ever need is downloadable for free! The HP49 will be cheaper if you want a HP48 with the same amount of memory. Main reasons for buying a HP49: It is faster, and upgradeable! I wish I owned one. -- Daniel Lidstr232m danli97(at)ite.mh.se http://www.ite.mh.se/~danli97/ 62 23' 25 N 17 15' 31 E Install alg48, erable and eqstk and you're left with what? 5Kb of memory? I don't know if they fit at the same time. . . . Ok, I see that erable needs about 120Kb, so it is impossible to use with cheaper. -- http://www.ite.mh.se/~danli97/ down the operations on the 48, you have also to watch several different batteries :-) No question, the 49 is not only cheaper but (I hope that my friend Raymond Hellstern doesn't read this mail) also more powerful. I was going to get a 512KB memory card so I only have one installed. I find the 49g very difficult to read (my eyes don't work as well as when I was young). Also, I really hate the layout and the color of the 49g (I've used HP for years and love the way it was) so I guess I'm trying to make a 48GX (with extra 512KB) become a 49g. I may have to bite the bullet and just get the 49g and learn to live with it. I will feel like I have a TI with the 49g, though and I've been loyal to HP for 25 years. On Fri, 11 May 2001 21:24:49 +0200, Wolfgang Rautenberg choice. (Many might say the 49G would always be the right choice, but this is just my opinion). Although the ACO team is very talented and they have really done a good job, the 49G is not the breakthrough the 48 was by the time it was introduced. If only there was a version with HP's traditional color and keyboard layout... But I think they are not worried about us old timers... The 48S and 48SX were soon followed by the 48G, GX, and recently by the 48G+. When will there be a successor for the 49G? Gerson W. Barbosa I don't think so. If you dream of higher speed, then have a look at one of 'em German pages. They have something called SpeedUp MAX, which will double the speed of the HP48 ... heard that the HP49 has rubber buttons I felt disgusted. The feel of a HP48 is the way a top-class calculator should feel. The bastards didn't hire me after 3 attempts over the past 3 years so either I am useless or they are stupid (or both :). They are after the money now -- don't care about quality, so f__k their MBA crap mentality! I have the HP48G since 1994. I used it throughout college (engineering) and I still use it as universal remote control at home (and at werk :). It still looks like new. It's the best, most universal toy/tool I've ever ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yeah, well couldn't you have said that at the start? Up to that last sentence I was under the impression I DID have to read and be subjected to your rant. -- to know the difference with other HP models such as the 48g(x) or 48sx... Could anybody tell me what these major differences area and, most importantly, whethere it has an RPN input (and not a algebraic input). Roeland Read for yourself: http://www.hpmuseum.com/ All models with letter x are expandable, that's to say that you can add memory cards... HP48s(x) are 2MHz CPUs and not so user friendly interface, but very fast to use if youknow it well (it takes a little bit of time to learn, but it's fast to use...) HP48g(x) are 4MHz CPUs so they're supposed to be faster... sure they are faster to execute any program or to draw graphics, but the interface, much more user friendly is very slow... So, even if it's faster than the HP48s(x) models, it's not so much faster use... (stack display that is slow in both cases is faster on HP48g(x)...) memory: HP48gx and HP48g+ are 128KB ram, while HP48s(x) and HP48g are 32KB... the advantage is very important... expecially if you want to install a stacker (accelerates stack display...) RPN vs algebraic: All HP48 models works on RPN notation, but as you can type an equation in algrbraic mode and then execute it, you can also use algebraic mode... (but it's not a non HP calculator algebraic mode... it's not direct...) HP48s HP48g(+) vs HP48sx and HP48gx Cards are very expansive (especially those from HP...) so most of the users doesn't own some... and vs HP49? HP49 is faster (because every slow parts of the operating system had been re-developped), has more memory, is easier to use, and most of the new softwares are now developped on 49... HP49 doesn't have a bi-directionnar IR interface, but you need a cable (included in the box I heard...) HP49 is not faster than the HP48 for RPL and Assembly programs as the CPU is not faster... Hope this help! CDLC or any illegal or copyrighted postings. http://www.finseth.com/~fin/hpdata.html As far as I'm concerned, Craig Finseth's spec sheets ----------------------------------------------------------- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! The subject line says HP48s but the above line says HP42s or HP42sx. I remember something like an HP42 but a HP42sx I've never heard of. Is this a typo on the OP's part or are my neurons'fading? -- john R. Latala jrlatala@golden.net i try to use my HP48G as a display on my caldera linux system. my problem is, when i conncect my hp to my pc its not possible to see date on my pc-monitor. i made xmit test on my hp and saw nothing my pc where i made cat /dev/ttyS0 on my hp i have iopar {9600 0 0 1 3 0} and on my linux i have called stty -F /dev/ttyS0 -evenp -cstopb cread clocal -crtscts -inpck -inlcr -icrnl igncr ixon ixoff -iuclc -ocrnl -onlcr -onocr -onlret 9600 when i connect the hp48 to a windows-pc and hyperteminal 9600 8N0 everething works fine. with mldisp.lib and some programmig on hp48 i want to display information, which i want do grep over the serial-interface. so it must be possible to use the hp48 as a display for an linux-mp3-player. (i want use mp3-stereo) thomas 07:49:03 EST) Look at stty and set your serial line in RAW mode... is compatible with hp49 ? It is claimed to be, and contains includes and libs for HP-49. I didn't try it ... or any illegal or copyrighted postings. some parts of circuits in which they are living; I can't be positive that this is why my microwave oven went on strike recently, but it was the strangest thing -- although the wall power was on and the device clock and display were working fine, the darned thing just suddenly refused to turn on and cook (not even at zero power, which is really just a kitchen timer function), not even after unplugging from the wall for a while and then plugging back in. But suddenly, as if some evil in-dwelling spirit just decided to pack up and leave, it recovered spontaneously, and has ever since been giving faithful service! If you're desperate enough to try some more daring treatments, you might even go so far as to wash it out with dry-cleaning fluid (e.g. perchloroethylene), which is actually used to clean PC boards, at least where I used to work -- or ask Joe Horn for his famous shampoo recipe, and let us know whether any miracles take place, even this long after Easter :) Not kidding about Joe's recipe: com Joe never did reveal the secret of what brand of shampoo he used, however (is he negotiating for TV sales of his miracle restorer?) ----------------------------------------------------------- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! Whoever told you that must have had a memory lapse. The 48 series, so we've been told, has some sort of internal circutry built in that prevents shorting out the battery terminals. This works great for the financial and scientific calcs, but on the graphing calculators it does no good. The only reason you would short the terminals on a calculator would be to discharge will accomplish this just fine. (Doing it with the batteries in cab cycle the bad energy through batteries and back into the unit.) Also, are you _SURE_ you said it was 48GX. Those can be sent into the service center no problem. Davy As mentioned in another post, this doesn't work on a 48. I have to agree with the previous person that this is not a good recommendation. Had a guy call in last month who inserted the batteries into his 17BII backwards and it was causing the unit to drain batteries within three days or less. I mean, if you're going to throw the unit out anyway I suppose there is no harm in giving it a try, but this falls into one of those last ditch effort ONLY fixes. Davy normal use. I have seen other models of HP calculators fail the same way. The ON key tends to be the first feature of an HP calculator to fail. I assume the contacts either wear out or corrode. I have seen other keys fail as well. Bob Corbett . Definitely a 48GX, unless HP have taken to mislabelling their calculators 8-). I am in Australia so maybe they don't repair them here - I'll given them another call to be sure. simon 8-). That may be the issue and I should have qualified the statement appropriately. Here in the states we can swap them out through the repair center. The fact that we have different repair policies in different countries tends to be a bit annoying for us, and I'm sure more so for you. Davy My turn to qualify my answer. We do have a 'swap over' policy here in Australia as well, though not a repair your original unit and hand it back type of repair. Unfortunately the swap over option is just $6 short of the price of a new calculator, so its probably not a well patronised option. I have invested in the Reference manual as well for this unit, which has been very useful. If the swap over price was less than 50% of the original purchase price I might consider it, but as it stands, other alternatives are looking more attractive. Many years ago I purchased a HP150 deskjet, one of the earlier inkjet models. Three years later it died. We called HP and they sent someone out to fix it, which basically involved replacing the internals - no charge. Now that is service! I guess I am still not convinced that new features and whizz bang marketing are more important than reliability and service. simon Espically when you consider that it will probably cost you $6 to ship it to them. Our swap out fees tend to be slightly over 1/3rd the cost of a new one, so rally speaking its worth the cost. Sorry to hear its not as good of a deal for you in OZ. Abour four years ago when I was on Pavilion they did this for the PCs (but not the printers) and it was a really nice service. As I was leaving the Pavilion group about 2 1/2 years ago they were beginning to shy away from this, although I don't know what the policy is now. What ends up happening is that service like this ends up being built into the cost of the unit and, with the computer sales being so comptetive, often services like this get cut so that overhead can be reduced and cut down the end user purchase price. Really, its a double edged sword. On the one hand, the pampering services are nice to have but on the other hand, nobody wants to pay for them up front. But I digress..... Davy very provides Thanx for your reply... However I wonder if it's possible to buy another screen as a part from HP in the case I broke it (that's, in my mind, the more important question). That's only if it's possible to relocate it in its place, sure. Kickaha [...] I've never heard about anybody complaning about this but if changes have been made it is in the right direction... I submit you another one: instead of displaying a lot of uneeded parenthesis with negative numbers like -(2*x) could the display be changed to -2*x. It seems it's in the way EQW understands the object (cf tree representation as said in the manual) What do you think about this ? Vincent -- ----------------------------------------------- | | | 1st year student at the school of engineering | | Ecole des Mines de Nantes (France) | ----------------------------------------------- When try to update to Rom 1.19-5, got this messge: Error Invalid Bank, i go to download menu and try to format bank # 3 why this say invalid bank, and then got this error erase fail locked block, i format other bank's without problem,but bank # 3 got error Locked Block, the calculator is now without system, i can`t execute any command, calculator serial is CN10100115. I can format any Bank, but Bank # 3 not. Tank for your great help. I was thinking of recoursive functions on the HP49G and the following came into my mind: The definition 'f(x)=not f(x)' is possible on the HP49. But once the function 'f' is defined, it contradicts itself. If something is put on the stack and the soft key for 'f' is pressed then it will take an oo umount of time for the HP49G to give a result, because it tries to find not(f(x)), which is not(not(f(x))), which is not(not(not(f(x))))...... Now the question is: is this a hint that the HP49 reached such a complexity that the incompleteness theorem holds? Pr. Parisse? Happy head ache ;-) Nick Your post refer me to recursive programs. The function 'f(x)=not f(x)' is clearly recursive ('f(x)=f(x)+1' is also recursive). But I didn't manage to reach an infinite loop state in the 49 following your way. eval, you get 'x+3=not x+3'. If x=5 another eval return '8=0'. Can you be more specific? Recursivity is an elegant (but slow in the hp4x) way to solve some problems. Luckily we have it on hp4x, for experiment at least. Saludos Jorge M. Valenzani I was thinking of recoursive functions on the HP49G and the following came into my mind: Your post refer me to recursive programs. The function 'f(x)=not f(x)' is clearly recursive I'm sorry for the brilliant deduction and explanation. I miss the reading of your first phrase. By the way... Any recursivity implies a question to stop it. Then recursive functions MUST include some ift or ifte. If not you must make a program for them. Saludos Jorge M. Valenzani The definition f(x)=not f(x) is indeed recursive. But: Recursive definitions don't have to be programmed with a real world that in f. Just put the algebraic 'f(x)=not f(x)' on the stack and in variable f. Type now 2 ENTER and then the menu key for f, or something else and then the menu key for f. Your HP is not going to get out of the dilema. It is not important if f does calculations like the one you talked about. We just consider a ric function which gives the negation of itself. We use the recursive definition to construct a mathematical expression that says something about itself. It says I am NOT myself which is related to the incompletness theorem, if I did not completely forget my math lessons a couple of years ago ;-). Nick Definetely not. It needs a condition to stop only if it is intented to stop at some point. (To calculate Fibonacci numbers and the like.) But what this definition says is: I am NOT myself. We define it as 'f(x)=NOT f(x)' DEF. There is no mathematical reason for defining more than this, if we only consider something that says something about itself. So we could also do 'f(x)=f(x)^2-1' DEF or anything else. It is not a value of a function that we care for in this case, but the mathematical sentence 'f(x)=something' itself. Perhaps someone can explain it better ?? Nick Didn't saw yor point in the previous message. recursive ;) Aren't you having unrealistic expectations of what this electronic system should be able to do? ;) If yes, then it isn't a defect (or bug) Saludos Jorge M.Valenzani I understand your point well enough. But it mixes two very different things. The calc can't undertand a mathematical concept definition in this way. It just get your definition, translate it and create a program that you can run. Then if your definition of the ric function is indeed recursive, the resulting program will be recursive also. A recursive program NEED the stop condition! It's critical. Without this, it never know when to stop and you have the result you saw in the 49. In the old HP28s you can even store 'x' in 'x' and get the same result. In the new models you have the Circular Reference error and can avoid this obvious mistake. But if we want to go further and eliminate the 'F(x)=not F(x)' problem we can end up with no recursive capabilities at all. The main point is: Mathematical sentences (definitions or else) and programs are different things and HP49 only understand the seconds. Of course may be you can make the 49 understand some mathematical sentences, but in that case you need to translate the sentence to the calculator language and not pre-suppose that it will understand yours. So, you mean that mathematical statements and programs don't have anything to do with each other? Should we run out of our homes, screaming: Turing was a cheater? I don't think so. But I will try to explain. First of all: All things that the HP49 returns, are returned because some programs run. Does this mean, that you can't do maths on the HP49? No! In fact you can do much more than the boring things like solving polynomials and the like. Maths is not only that. Second: A mathematical operation has by no means to only eat a value and return a value. Third: Let us consider a problem, that has to do with the incompleteness theorem. Consider a barber that only shaves those men of the village who don't shave themselves. The question is: Does he shave himself? If you think that this is not maths, then don't read further. But if you do, let's think about it. Let us first examine this in our language. If the barber shaves himself then he belongs to the set of men, who the barber doesn't shave. That means he doesn't shave himself. If he doesn't shave himself, then he belongs to the set of men, who the barber shaves. That means he shaves himself. This can be continued ad infinitum, without deciding if the sentence Barber shaves himself is TRUE or FALSE. We clearly see, that the system of a set: the men of the village and of axioms: Barber shaves only those who don't shave themselves contains a sentence: Barber shaves himself for which no decision can be made, if it is TRUE or FALSE. Now, G232del has proven (strictly mathematicaly), that this incompleteness applies to all mathematics!!! This is the incompleteness theorem. Let us try to translate our thoughts in the language of the HP49. That means *code* them in words that the HP49 understands. We can construct a function, which tells us if some man of the village shaves himself. This can be done considering the mapping: which simply tells: if someone shaves himself (argument 1), then he shaves himself (result 1) if someone doesn't shave himself (argument 0), then he doesn't shaves himself (result 0) The operation shaves himself can be DEFined as 'G(X)=X'. A very trivial definition, but it helps to understand. Type 'G(X)=X' DEF. The HP49 stores to do anything with functions? ;-) ) Now let us try to code the operation Barber shaves someone. Consider the mapping: which tells: if someone shaves himself (argument 1), then the barber does not shave him(result 0) if someone doesn't shave himself (argument 0), then the barber shaves him(result 1). This operation can be DEFined as: 'F(X)=NOT G(X)' (We could also DEFine it as 'F(X)=NOT X', but this DEFinition does not allow us to see, that the defined operation negates G.) Type 'F(X)=NOT G(X)' DEF The HP49 stores which is equivalent to: And now comes the twist. Is the defined function F perfect? No! Why! Because it does not consider the barber to be a special case. It handles him just like any other man. This is not the case, as we previously have shown. But consider now G(X), where X is the argument for the barber. Then G(X) tells us if someone shaves himself, that is if the barber shaves himself. Consider also F(X), where X is the argument for the barber. F then tells us if the barber shaves someone, that is if the barber shaves the barber. We see, that the two operations F and G in the case of the barber-argument tell us the same. (if the barber shaves himself case of the barber) That is why we must change 'F(X)=NOT G(X)' to 'F(X)=NOT F(X)' in the case, where we consider the barber himself. The evaluation of this F(X) is impossible, like it should be. (The HP49 repeats calling F ad infinitum, with the given argument X.) We could also constract a function F that takes two arguments: 1 or 0 on level 2 (1 if we consider the barber, 0 if we consider any other man) 1 or 0 on level 2 (1 if someone shaves himself, 0 if not) and the function would be: << from level 1, and returns if the barber shaves the coded who (1) or not (0) , or in the case of who=1 (the barber) continues ad infinitum trying to find if the barber shaves himself. As you see, the system HP49 allows more investigations than those that we talk about most of the time. Consider for example some definition like: 'F(a,b)=F(a,b)=(a*X^2-b)/(a*b)' definition of a...metamathematics ;-) ) No, I don't. I do not expect anything a priori. I study maths, try to code the HP49 and observe what it does. And in this case, it is a surprise to me, that such an easy definition leads to such consequences. Keep your eyes open, the wonders are in front of you :-) Nick I am not going to explain it again, since this is done in my last message. (So we save some space and band width ;-) ) But I tell you again: Math statements, can be *coded* as programs and if we are careful enough then we have a 1 to 1 relation between maths and coded programs. The programs can be thought as one kind of representation of the mathematical statements. The representation itself is not the important thing, but the logic behind it. Math is *not* x^2 and the like. This is only its representation, the language that we use in order to make it understandable with few words. Why are you so convinced that a recursive definition needs a break condition? Is it because the lack of this, would lead to something that never stops? So what? Who told you that some operation has to return something? Take the time, and think about it. Nick A break condition is a condition to allow a correct coherent answer (then to let the programm stops and then have a valid algorithm -said for finite states machines- according to A. Turing). Lets's consider again the problem of the barber who only shaves men who don't shave themselves and the question of saying if he does shave himself But every body know the question can be answer only when you don't consider the instance of the barber himself. So when we say only shaves men who... we mean and understand only shaves those men -exept him- who... Then, the under said words 'exept him' are our 'stop condition'. :-p Otherwhise, in this case, that is a program that never stops because about ending, no decision can be made, if it is TRUE or FALSE... But, I agree with you, no one ever say that some operation has to return something :) Gildas. (Sorry for jumping into this thread so late, I've been away from the ng for a while. But computability and computational complexity is one of my pet topics, so I couldn't resist. ;-) The answer depends on how you look at the computational device. In reality, all computers we can build right now can only be in a finite (albeit very large) number of memory states, and thus you can think of them as finite state machines. However, in theoretical computer science we usually look at abstract mathematical models of different classes of computational devices, some of which have no limit on the amount of memory they can use. In this theoretical sense, many if not most contemporary programmable calcs (yes, even TIs ;-) can be considered as universal computational devices, since, if they were allowed to use an arbitrary amount of memory (a la http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/humor/calcman.txt), they could emulate any Turing machine. Thus, in particular, you cannot decide the halting problem for those machines. The usefulness of such a theoretical point of view depends on how capable the real device actually is. With modern computers and programmable calcs, the machine can be in so many different states and computations can get so complex, that it's reasonable to look at them as if they were universal devices. (NB: It can be quite surprising how simple the design of a universal computer can get. Just look for single instruction computer with your favourite search engine.) As for the usefulness of recursive definitions, or programs in ral, which do not always terminate: Some will say that such programs are no algorithms at all; but that depends on how you define the term algorithm. In fact there are some pretty useful algorithms which do *not* always terminate (and it's also undecidable whether they will terminate on a given input). One classical procedure which comes to my mind is Knuth-Bendix completion (yes, it's D.E. Knuth again :). This procedure can be used, e.g., to semi-decide whether a given equation holds in a given equational theory. It will *always* return true in a finite amount of time if the equation holds, but *may* run forever otherwise. (Of course, when using such an algorithm in practice, you will have to kill it before your computer turns to dust, and let it return failure.) I admit that this is a rather obscure example coming from computational logic, which is not the kind of stuff you will normally do on a programmable calc. :) Maybe someone else knows a more practical problem of this type? Albert -- Dr. Albert Gr212f Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de I will try to answer both messages in one. Please, if you want to keep the coherence of this dialogue don't put words in my mouth that I didn't said. What make you think that I mean that mathematical statements and programs don't have anything to do with each other? NOTHING TO DO??!! I own HP calculators since 1987. May I said that? No, and I didn't. I can see that you answer almost every post in the newsgroup, then you must have only a little time for each one, but please read them before answer. But mainly, before explain, try to understand. Ok... so what? Ok... and now? !!! ( original work? ;) ;) I didn't said that, never. ;) Long reading. Did you take my answer as an excuse for your explanation? It's clear that your enthusiasm with the idea blinds you. The HP will NOT repeat calling F ad infinitum. The insufficient memory error will pop up (the time elapsed depends on free mem). Is that the end of your fantasy? The 49' rpl just give you a little more time before the overflow that , say, CASIO's basic. That Nick is what I tried to explain to you in the main post. If you was surprised with the consequences was because you miss the fact that computer. You said: Now the question is: is this a hint that the HP49 reached such a complexity that the incompleteness theorem holds? Pr. Parisse? Of course the HP49 is very complex, but your example isn't. The error that you get is consequence of the recursive nature (please read this carefully! recursive or self-referencing) of the function you coded and the lack of care in it's coding (somebody said stop condition? ;). (then to finite And you answer: stop OK, OK but not HP49 (at least not at the level you try,may be a little more work? ;) Keep in mind finite states machines The other post said: Oh! what a coincidence! ;) It seems that you wasn't careful enough because your function ends in an error. I thought there goes his 1 to 1 relation ;) Not they hasn't, (I didn't said that neither), but they must not end in error conditions (lucky us that you don't code it in sys rpl) I never ralized my answer (as you pretend) to every operation. I was talking about your 'F(x)=not F(x)' example and in HP49. And that was what you ask. I always try to avoid plagiarism, but sometimes I feel the temptation ;) Saludos Jorge M. Valenzani I wish, more people would find this stuff irresistable :-( Yes, it is the theoretical possibility that arises in one's mind. This, taken together with the ease of the defining procedure for the HP49, leads me to the conclusion, that the designers/developers did an amazing job. It has its flaws here and there, but after all nothing human made is perfect. I think we should consider the knowledge gain. Such recursive defined programs may or may never end. But the most useful thing is, that we think about them. Sometimes we can then recognize the reason for some behavior. Even Gedanken-Experiments with absolutely no practical use, can be a real treasure for learning and exploring. (And blaiming each other, but that's part of the game ;-) ) Obscure examples may be the best examples for obscure matters. ;-) Nick I did not mean the comment about Turing as an accusation, but as an example for argueing against the wide spread opinion, that maths is only x^2=2. I am glad that this was not also your opinion. The following comment, made me think, you mean it. If you don't mean this then: 1) I apologize 2) What else do you mean? Don't be that glad, I am older ;-) Oh, come on Jorge! there is at least a remaining 5% of all postings, that I did not answer. ;-) them before I certainly never read a question before I answer. This is the reason for giving programs and hints to people that need them. You know, in reality I guess from the title of the thread what people want, and through the influence of the holy ghost and the taste of my fingers, I come to an answer. ;-) So, much of our math knowledge is representable by programs. Now, you have something that eats anything and returns nothing. How poetical. ;-) No, he has stollen it from my grand pa, Nikolaos Mathematicosides ;-) What was then the the meaning of: This little word just is a little limiting, in my ears. No, I took my not so good knowlede in english as reason. I wanted to make something clear, which is very difficult to talk about, if one only talks without examples. Also I thought that I had to show, why this definition on the HP is related to the incompleteness theorem. May be. But I *have* enthousiasm. I reject any non entousiastical working. Yeap, it will. But this is not what I find interesting. The theoretical possibility and the simple definition is what I find interesting. (See also posting of Dr. Albert Graef in this thead. ) And this from you. Your previous comment: was a bit in the direction: Nick, the fantast. Now I am a person with limited fantasy. Taken together: I am a person with unrealistic expectations (which implies to much fantasy) at the end of his fantasy. Another G232del-weirdness? ;-) So let the darn thing overflow. This also shows that the HP correctly can't decide if the statement is true or not, because the statement can't be decided if it is true or not. So it fights until death... brave litle thing ;-) Hmmm, to tell you the truth I did't expect that on the HP49. I thought it was about to say What kind of definition is that, man?. So I was amazed to see that it simply ate it up without any comments. In other programming languages (at least the ones that I know of), it is also easy but not so simple to say something recoursively. Most of them evaluate the right side and assign some value to the left side. Would this work the same way as in the HP in, say, C? f(x)=not f(x) The only language that I know for sure, it does the same is Mathematica. Is there any other language that does the same out there? The carefully designed complexity allows some weird thinks to be easily coded on the HP. It doesn't always have to be a complex definition. I don't need a stopping condition, because the system that I wanted to translate (e.g. the barber and so on) does not have any stopping condition. Give us a better mathematical description of the system (barber etc.) that the HP understands. Take a look at the posting of Dr. Alfred Graef in this thread. Yes, isn't it? The logical/mathematical analysis of this examples also ends with a non deciding result. This is not an error. It is the correct result. The result is that no result can ever be achieved. That is what also the HP does. It achieves no result and dies (No free memory), asking you to stop the reason for dying. Again... brave thing ;-) Oh yes, you did: Didn't you mean it that way? The error condition must be achieved in this case, If the HP would return an answer for this problem, then I would rather believe that the thing is possessed. You said: Now you say you mean only this special example. Can both statements be true? I always try to avoid temptation, but sometimes I feel the plagiarism. ;-) after buying the HP49 ;-) The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck, is the day they start producing vacuum cleaners. -- This message was written entirely with recycled electrons Pivo LOL :-) As some of you probably know, the newer HP49[AHat]s which are made in China have a problem with the internal serial number. It displays as a bunch of [CapitalOSlash][AHat]s. Supposedly the number of calculators manufactured with this defect is small, however I just came across three that are this way (and none that are normal). If you are curious, two of them were bought at Office Depot in Houston and one was bought in Venezuela. Problem is, I distribute a program that uses the internal serial number as protection from fraudulent copying. My knowledge of HP49 programming does not go far beyond simple system RPL but I[AHat]m sure there could be a way to poke some sort of a code somewhere in the flash ROM and then have my program peek for the existence of this code in the calculator in which it is running. Certainly poking at random can only lead to disaster. Can someone please give me some help on doing this. P.S. Has anyone out there bought an HP49 with a CH external serial number that also has a proper internal serial number? If that happens to you, that are tryinog to protect software from being used by all users free of charge it isn't so bad. I think all software should be free. Have you paid for all the tools? I don't think so. FREE SOFTWARE GNU - GPL FOREVER -- Linux Registered User: 202 170 Kernel 2.4.1 http://xie121.infovia.xtec.es/~rblasco Un222os, hermanos linuxeros My friend: When a software of your creation will be used on an offshore oil rig that costs $4/sec to operate, and it can save them a couple of hours a day, then I'm sure you will want to be rewarded as well. Luis by small, ------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE web-based e-mail and newsgroup access at: http://MailAndNews.com Create a new mailbox, or access your existing IMAP4 or POP3 mailbox from anywhere with just a web browser. ------------------------------------------------------------ What nonsense. Free software is not free at all- rather it is paid for by taxpayers who fund 'developers' at taxpayer-funded universities. So much for Free Software nonsense. If you don't like that a piece of software is commercially marketed, don't buy it. If you steal or copy it, I really hope you land in jail. But then, as a good leftist, you should be willing to pay that price with honor. jrc --------------------------------------------- Hey guys, I never intended this to become a big ideological can or worms. Can any of you just tell me if they have bought a made in China HP49G with a proper internal serial number? Luis ------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE web-based e-mail and newsgroup access at: http://MailAndNews.com Create a new mailbox, or access your existing IMAP4 or POP3 mailbox from anywhere with just a web browser. ------------------------------------------------------------ secure area for personal use. Finally the Boot Kernel has code inside, that allows the user to purge the complete Flash memory with the exception of the Boot Kernel itself. Christoph Giesselink As some of you probably know, the newer HP49's which are made in China have a problem with the internal serial number. It displays as a bunch of [CapitalOSlash]'s. Supposedly the number of calculators manufactured with this defect is small, however I just came across three that are this way (and none that are normal). If you are curious, two of them were bought at Office Depot in Houston and one was bought in Venezuela. Problem is, I distribute a program that uses the internal serial number as protection from fraudulent copying. My knowledge of HP49 programming does not go far beyond simple system RPL but I'm sure there could be a way to poke some sort of a code somewhere in the flash ROM and then have my program peek for the existence of this code in the calculator in which it is running. Certainly poking at random can only lead to disaster. Can someone please give me some help on doing this. P.S. Has anyone out there bought an HP49 with a CH external serial number that also has a proper internal serial number? operating system area there are names and even pictures of the development team, would it not be possible to overwrite some of that (one byte would probably suffice) with the understanding that if the operating system is ever upgraded it would be lost. Luis ------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE web-based e-mail and newsgroup access at: http://MailAndNews.com Create a new mailbox, or access your existing IMAP4 or POP3 mailbox from anywhere with just a web browser. ------------------------------------------------------------ would be lost. Luis small, ------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE web-based e-mail and newsgroup access at: http://MailAndNews.com Create a new mailbox, or access your existing IMAP4 or POP3 mailbox from anywhere with just a web browser. ------------------------------------------------------------ or any illegal or copyrighted postings. 2001 21:04:45 EST) Jim Donnelly's program is doing the same thing as the SERIAL command, except that SERIAL was not available on early ROM release... Can someone please tell me if they've come accross an HP49g with a CH external serial number which has a valid internal number. Luis I don't think you'll find one; last I checked HP didn't make calculators in Switzerland. ;-) Perhaps you meant CN? http://www.din.de/gremien/nas/nabd/iso3166ma/codlstp1/en_listp1.html -- Nate Eldredge neldredge@hmc.edu code (without the quotes) at the Level 1 of the stack. but I cannot link it to make an executable, how can I do that? thanx -- My mail server is limited to 2 megabytes of data; please do not send mails if their size is above 256 kilobytes. I may consider taking further actions if this is not respected. peterthefly@mail.ru schreef: Code objects are executable be careful with them though because a faulty object can cause a memory clear be sure to reset the RPL pointers upon exiting the code object -- This message was entirely written with recycled electrons Pivo code If it is displayed on the stack as: Code Then it is an executable ML program. David Haguenauer http://zap.to/hsimpson hi, how do I make my hp49 display actually have commas in it? lets say 23,345,378 rather than 23345378 and on page 10-3 (introductory to programming) of the user's guide paragraph 4 it shows, when you press the STO key in this example you get a sort of right pointing solid arrow, however I am not getting this but rather STO on the line which causes an error and I cant save it to a variable, how do I over come this? -- Gary You can use the command FIX Before FIX __________________ 4: 3: 2: 123 1: 23345378 AFTER 2 FIX __________________ 4: 3: 2: 123.00 1: 23,345,378.00 Maybe you have the calc in RPN mode, and the paragraph is for ALGEBRAIC mode. P.S. Sorry, I can read english, but I can't write it :-& --- Alejo. o__ http://expansion.w3.to (_)(_) The FIX display works on real only, not integer... paragraph on mode. Is it possible to get an additional screen cover for the HP 49 and where can I buy one? can No, unfortunately HP does not sell them as replacement parts. :( -- Dr. Albert Gr212f Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de or any illegal or copyrighted postings. X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Forecasting is difficult - in particular with respect to the future ... Brgds; Fabrizio or any illegal or copyrighted postings. illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) I use NiMH in mine and charge them externallly. All the built in apps are considerably upgraded from the 95lx. Lotus is 2.4 instead of 2.2. Dos is 5.0 instead of 3.2. They got real serious about making this a dos machine and it's basically compatible with everything that doesn't need vga or a 386. There's a LOT of good old software that's gone public domain (or not) and people are using it regularly. Word Perfect and dBase and Paradox are used on it by a lot of people, for example. This is exactly like the 95lx on the outside. Same size and weight. Slightly bluer color. None of the Pocket PC or the Palm things will even come close to the power of this thing. It has better software for accessing the internet than any of the newer models. You can use powerful relational databases on it. In fact there's even a pretty nice SQL package for it called pbase. Unlike the PocketPC ones, it won't do multimedia stuff so it's not a machine that you can show off. Except to someone who has a Pocket PC machine or a Palm and is aware of it's limitations. Those guys are impressed when they see one of these. Barry memory and e.g. HP, http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! [remaining good review snipped] I wouldn't bother with the memory upgrade since flash cards are so large these days. Avoid the clock speed upgrade that is also available since it eats batteries like there's no tomorrow. -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk or any illegal or copyrighted postings. illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) web meg They so large since http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! I was just on www.hpcalc.org and he now has alot of new updates etc.... Welcome back hpcalc ;-) Have we lost www.hpcalc.org ? I know he was looking for new webspace. Has anyone heard what is going on? -- Micah It's still there -- could be a routing/DNS issue with your ISP. Has Ok nice to read it. Now could you tell us the correct IP address? ;) -- Linux Registered User: 202 170 Kernel 2.4.1 http://xie121.infovia.xtec.es/~rblasco Un222os, hermanos linuxeros ping www.hpcalc.org: 130.161.43.47 or any illegal or copyrighted postings. Ah, Iwondered why I got up to 300kB/s but the site is at the TUDelft also........ -- This message was written entirely with recycled electrons Pivo I trace the route to HPCALC.org from my computer and it reached a server in Delf, in the Nederlands. Using www.tracert.com as tool I am unable to find the site. I have experienced a similar problem with my site. It was a problem of DNS propagation. It took two days to my site be acessible from my provider, however it was acesssible from other providers. I have accessed HPcalc.org it at 15:44 h (my local time) and it was showing 2457622 visits at 15:45 it was showing 2457627, that probably means that the site and CGIs are working. CMarangon Carlos Marangon Civil Engineer Post-graduating in Safety Engineering) http://www.area48.com This is the site I'm getting connected to. I based in switzerland. Yes. I was surprised about that. But if I do a tracert I get: Tracing route to www.hpcalc.org [130.161.43.47] over a maximum of 30 hops: 15 75 ms 50 ms 49 ms BR3.Amsterdam.surf.net [193.148.15.34] 16 74 ms 46 ms 48 ms BR6.Amsterdam.surf.net [145.41.7.53] 17 71 ms 49 ms 44 ms BR7.Amsterdam.surf.net [145.41.7.46] 18 53 ms 59 ms 50 ms BR1.Delft.surf.net [145.41.7.38] 19 75 ms 52 ms 45 ms tudelft-router.Customer.surf.net [145.41.17.22] 20 73 ms 48 ms 47 ms dunet3.router.tudelft.nl [130.161.1.51] 21 77 ms 53 ms 50 ms www.hpcalc.org [130.161.43.47] Trace complete. Berni. showing CGIs says... hpcalc has not been updated since April 22. I was wondering if this is only at the dutch mirror, or if this is also the case for the main server? - Carsten you can read on the 1st page : Unfortunately, due to the failure of the CPU fan, my primary hpcalc server went down on Saturday. I don't expect to have it up in the near future, so I apologize for any problems accessing the site, as well as a lack of updates. I like the term Saturday. It conveys no useful information at all about when he had the hardware problems. Too bad for all of us ungrateful users... www.hpcalc.org have a problem: no Unix tools. And I only use Unix systems, never have used Windows. I have seen that HP has released a development tool for Windows. Is it possible to have an equivalent for Unix? I am not talking about a windowing IDE with all the bells and whistles; simple a set of command-line utilities would be great. Borja. My understanding is that the dev kit is open-source, so it could be ported to Unix. Is it The GNU HP-tools are available for Unix. You can get them from http://www.hpcalc.org. it There are some tools. Concerning compilers, there are the GNU Tools (get the source from http://www.hpcalc.org ) -- however, they do not support all features of the HP49, and my kasm (http://k-asm.sourceforge.net ). There is also an emulator: look for Saturn on http://www.hpcalc.org . -- Eduardo M Kalinowski (ekalin@iname.com) http://move.to/hpkb http://cami-ufpr.hpg.com.br In the HP pages I have found a development kit for Windows, nothing for Unix :-( However, I have found kasm by Eduardo Kalinowski, and it compiles cleanly in FreeBSD. Hptalx also compiles with a pair of trivial hacks... Is there a sort of FAQ for Unix/HP calculator users? Borja. under FreeBSD. It compiles without problems. And, BTW, thank you very much for your work. Your tutorials are excellent indeed!!! Borja. I have found that the best tools you can use are (X)Emacs and GNU tools (the ones ported by JYA). Get yer hands on a RPL mode for emacs and voilla! Instant tool set! -Al Sure ;-) There is one caveat, however. I understand (beware, I am yet a complete novice, bought my HP49 last friday) that the GNU tools don't support all the features in the new RPL for the HP49, for example the arbitrary precision integers. Borja. I Is the and the HPTools v3.0.7 ??? 9d5bqv$daq$1@web1.cup.hp.com... or but Windows. And again, the HP Tools v3.0.x support all the new HP49 object (FlashPointer, integers etc...) If you want to create an integer: ZINT 123 for example complete Maybe I should precise. I'm always talking about the HPTools (the original one), NOT the GNU Tools (the hacked version of the HPTools v1.0) You can find the HPTools on my web site: http://www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/39.html complete I've never released them yet.. Too lazy to update my web page. Also they only fix a small bug in MASD syntax www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/39.html license, have of Where did you find an RPL mode for emacs? Can you give an URL please?? TIA, Albert -- Dr. Albert Gr212f Dr.Graef@t-online.de, ag@muwiinfa.geschichte.uni-mainz.de http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-mainz.de tools dessins ou shemas sur mon ordi que je mettrais apr217s sur mon HP49. ou y'a t'il un autre logiciel de ce type. merci d'avance. Xnview (www.xnview.com) Tu dessines sur PC avec n'importe que logiciel puis tu convertis ce fichier au format GROB HP49 avec Xnview. XNview (www.xnview.com) can convert from many picture formats to HP48/49 GROB. XNview (www.xnview.com) peut convertir de nombreux formats d'image vers GROB. David Haguenauer http://zap.to/hsimpson Xnview est juste un viewer-convertisseur, utilise plut231t Cpicedit qui permet de creer puis convertir le grob, (sur hpcalc.org) AnsNum between two 48's uses up more batteries than using a wire (cable) connection? Which of the two is faster? 11:02:19 CDT) Yes, does. There's at least one document w/ power consumption measurements during different activities, you'll probably find it somewhere on www.hpcalc.org Wire goes up to 9600bd, IR is limited to 2400bd. Bye, Detlef Out of the box, wire transfer is faster. To get more information, go to www.hpcalc.com. (I mean visit it with your browser, not yourself ;-) ) There is a huge amount of information there, collected from all the users around the world over the years. Nick. that doesn't really mean anything with the HP48 because it can't handle a continuous stream at 9600 baud. Both kermit and xmodem protocols use packets that have to be acknowledged so there's quite a time gap between packets. the communications program i use displays the throughput while up or downloading when when downloading to the hp48 with kermit it starts off fast then keeps getting slower. In the two digit characters per second range (20 or 30). that's a far cry from the speed capability of either 9600 or 2400 baud. I'd be quite happy if the HP48 could download at a constant 2400 baud. -- john R. Latala jrlatala@golden.net envoronment for the HP49. The idea is, that when you want to execute a program that takes to long, and you don't have an armada of HP49s, then you could explode the code to pieces, store them in a list and let the calc execute the commands of the program one by one *and* check to see, if you press keys etc. In a schematic representation: SAVE_USERS_STACK LOOP TAKE_COMMAND_FROM_LIST EXECUTE IT IF USER_DID_SOMETHING THEN RESTORE_USERS_STACK EXECUTE_SOMETHING SAVE_USERS_STACK END ENDLOOP But the problem is that the commands themselves can't be interrupted and continued later, i.e. if a command in the program, say an integration, takes to long, then you will be able to use the calc *after* the command finished. So does anybody know, if there is a way to tell the commands in the middle of their execution to stop doing something and resume later? Nick P.S. The induced craziness of this group takes new unexpected forms. %-& I think it's gonna be very interesting to study how the background __ Kamel, who thinks this a difficult task :) P.S. The MetaKernel group were thinking of adding a multitasking feature to the HP48.. check the MetKernel's docs! Well, a difficult task it is indeed, but it is nice to know that even with user RPL it is possible. It is the possibility that gots me fascinated, not the implementation of the possibility. Nick The HP49G had, I believe, multitasking capabilitites in ROM v1.05. This was taken out because of lack of room. aGSS6.1813$R84.412750@news010.worldonline.dk... was What a pity. Do you know how those multitasking capabilities could be used? Where they accesible for a user without any knowledge of programming in ML or SysRPL? Nick No. I don't think so. Nick here : http://perso.atsat.com/pigallio/Hp48/Lil_hp48.htm how can i plot (or how do i get around): Y^2 + sinY = 2x^3 You must either solve for one of the variables or represent the curve parametrically in order to graph it (except for conics). For your example, you can solve for x in terms of y, for all y satisfying except for a small open interval of y values just left of zero, fom y=0 down to about y = -0.8767. You could also use 'Truth' plot type: Try 'ABS(Y^2 + SIN(Y) - 2X^3 ) < 0.1' but will speed things up. This way, you'll go 4 times faster!) I know this does not give a very good result but in many cases this proves very helpful when you can't solve for either X or Y.. If you need better quality use resolution 1 PIXEL. Also, try to play around with the value 0.1 .. __ Kamel You haven't sought hard enough. Philippe Roussel, appeared in Datafile, Jan/Feb 2000 (V19N1). http://www.hpcc.org/datafilev19.html#V19N1 johil@tv3mail.com I've got the latest beta rom. I seem to remember being able to do indefinite integrals before I upgraded but now all I can do is definite (it makes me enter the end points). If anyone can explain how to do this I'd really appreciate it. jsj -- the sky is tired of being blue I'm supposing that you're in RPN mode and that your function is in the current variable (VX): Put the function you want to integrate on the stack (level 1) Execute the command INTVX e.g. 'X^2-SIN(X)' (VX is X) INTVX To use another variable, you can use RISCH: e.g. 'T^2-SIN(T)' (VX doesn't matter in this case) T RISCH It's as simple as that! __ Kamel, who's running ROM 1.19-5 beta How are you trying to do indefinite integrals, and what happens when you try? -- Nate Eldredge neldredge@hmc.edu Hallo, I tried it on HP49G and it fails, because the 2 in the list is interpreted as integer, while a real number is required. It would be nice, if INPUT (and may be some other commands) would exept both: integer and real on HP49G? (Compatibility and ease of use) Heiko or any illegal or copyrighted postings. with arbitrary-type number objects (e.g. consider the TYPE and of course very different speed results with START, FOR, etc.) On the HP48, if this is how the program looks when displayed, the 1 and 4 can only be real numbers, and the answer can only be the real number 0.25 On the HP49, if this is how the program looks when displayed, the 1 and 4 are not real numbers, but are integers, and the result of the program (if flag -3 is clear) must be '1/4' (symbolic expression), not 0.25 (real number). an HP48 program or an HP49 program, and interpret it accordingly, so that it acts the way it was meant to act on its original source? The answer is: It can't. It's up to *you* to tell the HP49, in advance, which calculator model this program was written for or rated by, so that the HP49 can make the proper interpretation of decimal digit strings into the appropriate object type. Due to the fact that the ascii header line used for automatic program transfers in text form was not augmented to be completely automatic at the HP49 end, you must *manually* set the proper mode in the *receiving* calc *before* receiving any text program, unless that text program is completely free of any digit strings without decimal points attached. This chart attempts to concisely explain (view in constant-width font, not pretty font :) HP48 HP49 Sending realX realN realX realN integer (examples) 1.23 45 1.23 45. 67 Receive on 48 real real real real real (or 49 Approx) Receive on 49 real integer real real integer (Exact only) an HP48 program, sent as text to an HP49, without risk of changing the type of some originally real-valued numbers to exact integer type, the HP49 must be in Approximate mode. Likewise, to faithfully interpret an HP49 program, sent as text to another HP49, without risk of changing the type of some original exact integers to approximate real-type, the HP49 must be in Exact mode. Ay, there's the rub (Hamlet 3:1) http://web.uvic.ca/shakespeare/Library/SLTnoframes/literature/texts+1.html [speaking of alteration during translation :} When sending an HP49 program as text to an HP48, any exact integers will inevitably revert to real object type; other incompatible commands and syntax may also not be understood. The ral automatic conversion of exact integer arguments to approximate real is localized to very particular argument dispatching functions, and occurs only when no distinction need ever be made between the types (also not when the arg is only a component of an expected list arg). If you're lucky, maybe INPUT is amenable to an easy adjustment, but in ral you must know a user program's true origin, and tell the HP49 accordingly *before* transfer, to assure proper compilation and subsequent proper function. Sometimes you can get away with sloppy translation, perhaps paying only in additional execution time, but other times you can't, so watch your step! That's the whole issue; the extra new object types and their different *display* conventions on the HP49 vs. the HP48 rate the need to set the interpretation mode *before* compilation, since correction *after* compilation is inevitably less possible in many cases. The original HP48 program transfer system used a very complete special header line to tell the receiving calculator's text compiler *all* of the interpretation modes it had to use to properly interpret any programs that were conveyed in text form (so that the receiving calc never needed to be manually set). E.g. %%HP: T(3)A(D)F(.); The Translation mode specifies whether to output and then to display and then re-interpret angles in cylindrical/spherical coordinates, and the Fraction mark specifies what character represents the decimal point (which also determines the argument separator in algebraics). The HP49 added one more mode (Exact/Approximate), which it is very necessary for the compiler to know to make its proper interpretation, but there is *no* corresponding addition to the header line to specify it, which leaves you having to worry about setting it yourself, in the receiving HP49 (or before you manually type the program, which is equivalent). If any more letter options had been inserted *after* %%HP in this header line, then when the HP49 transmitted programs, any HP48 would have detected it as an error. Assuming that HP may not have wanted to make it impossible to transfer compatible HP49 user programs back to the HP48, that wouldn't have been a good idea. However, try copying this to a file and transferring it to your HP48 *or* HP49 using Kermit: Does the file transfer correctly to your calc, 48 or 49, without being at all disturbed by the word *before* %%HP ? If so, then that's where an HP49 could insert something special, to say automatically set yourself to Exact mode, which is what it should by default say for every file which it sends in ascii text form, since that is the mode which the receiving HP49 needs, to guarantee correct interpretation, as we saw above. A person editing manually, however, could then specify to use Approximate mode instead, if posting an HP48 program; alternatively, the mere presence of the %%HP header *without* any prefix could also be presumed to be a signal to interpret the text in Approximate mode, That would have been okay if done before the first units were commercially released, but now that your HP49 (and mine) still don't rate any prefix, this would make it difficult to adopt the above convention, which would then make direct transfers from *our* unupdated HP49s be treated just like output from an HP48, and thus be inappropriately compiled (stick a Microsoft label on it, however, and call the text language Java, and it would become okay :) Assuming that the above inserted word before %%HP did not affect the ability to download the file, we could still always take the liberty ourselves of inserting Exact or Approximate into our manually edited files, just to give folks a hint of what mode they need to set manually, and then this question need not come up again :) ----------------------------------------------------------- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! a very large text snipped. Sorry, John I need to work through your detailed mail. Hopefully I will understand. No, time up to Sunday. Heiko or any illegal or copyrighted postings. The above two conventions are clearly incompatible, so if any user program, when shown as text, contains numbers without decimal points, and if you are going to send or type the program into an HP49, you have to decide in advance which way to interpret it: The HP48 way (Approximate mode): All numbers, with or without decimal points, are interpreted as real number objects (type 0). The HP49 way (Exact mode): Numbers with decimal points are all approximate real (type 0); numbers without decimal points are all exact integers (type 28). Sometimes a program interpreted the wrong way works anyway, e.g. 2 MENU and 2. MENU both display the VAR menu. Other times, a program interpreted the wrong way won't work, e.g. { xx 2 } INPUT won't work unless 2 is changed to 2. If you set the HP49 to Approximate mode before sending it this program text, then the compiler interprets 2 as 2. anyway, which is what you should do in ral before loading or typing HP48 user programs in text (ascii) form. If a numeric original command or function argument is *required* to be a real number, but an exact integer is supplied instead, saving you from worrying about the object type in many cases (or sparing you from needing to press the decimal point key). However, this service is offered only at the point where the *original* stack arguments are being checked for their types -- note here that a list { ... } is a valid type of argument for the INPUT command; therefore that's the end of argument type checking, and that's also the end of the amnesty, where some commands might tolerate a wrong original type of number as an individual argument. Therefore, nothing was wrong with the INPUT command; what was wrong was that a program displayed on (or for) an HP48, where some real numbers were shown without decimal points, was loaded into an HP49 in Exact mode, where numbers without decimal points were compiled into new object type 28, which is not valid inside the list supplied to the INPUT command. The needed correction is to set the proper HP49 mode before transfering ascii programs (or typing them): For HP48 program text: set Approximate mode before transfer. For HP49 program text: set Exact mode before transfer. If you forgot to set approximate mode (HP48 mode), you can correct the mistake after the fact: just set approximate mode now, then EDIT the program again -- even though you make no changes, numbers are re-interpreted when you press ENTER, and all the numbers become real (type 0) this time. If you forgot to set Exact mode (HP49 mode) and had typed the text in by hand, you may be able to change to Exact mode now and recover the saved original text from the shifted CMD function; otherwise you'll need to transmit the original text again. Hmm.. maybe this was not shorter -- but was it any clearer? ----------------------------------------------------------- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! John, thank you for the detailed work through. A lot of important hints. I understand, that if I need to type in a HP48G-program on the HP49G, it is recommanded to switch to approx-mode. Yes, but I expected that the INPUT command would accept the integer in the list, like + and - accept complex numbers. In the AUG it is clearly stated that a real is required. Great job, they have thougt about the problem. I tried it with my HP49G, it nice experience to see what happens, and to have the knowledge to avoid typing it (if posted correctly in the NG). Up to now I did not take care about the ascii convention when I have posted here (e.g. << instead of more correct <<). Ok, let us keep in mind that there is a new object in the HP49G, the integer and misuse could become a trap ;-) Heiko A very short passage snipped ;-) Wunderfull, completly clear. ...Heiko 18059 Rostock II ff KK KK Tel.: +49 381 498-3139 II ff KK KK Fax.: +49 381 498-3156 ___ mail: torsten.barenthin@mbst.uni-rostock.de /o.o --------------------------------------------------^^^-----^^^---- You can use the numeric solver and enter A but not x and then solve for u but there are also a few nice probability functions in menu 13.02 [math prob] and the one you want is UTPN store this in EQ and start the numeric solver mean: mean of normal distribution var: variance X: eps: precision UTPN gives you the integral of the gaussian distribution from -infinity to X EG after solving gives you x=1.95 the value of the 95% interval (0.95=1-2*eps) -- This message was written entirely with recycled electrons Pivo Roman Hartmann escribi227: [...] Have you tried an EVAL before solving? That iINDER or ~xIREMAINDER (I found these commands via RPLCPL) MASD cannot recompile them. I have heard about bugs in masd, but I haven't heard about fixes being made to it. Is masd updated with a new ROM release? To the point: I am looking for either a compileable SysRPL command that can give me the remainder of a division, or a more size concious workaround than: :: ... @work here IREMAINDER ... @work here ; This is much larger than the single command is supposed to be. Any help would be appreciated. -John Mart II (I To use IREMAINDER in MASD, you should only put xIREMAINDER, but this doesn't work to every command, so you have to call the command by it's ROMPTR. Instead of xIREMAINDER you have to write ROMPTR 314 2B. You can get this number by using Nosy. Bye! -- Beto doesn't Why shouldn't xCOMMAND work with every UserRPL structure? this Why not decompile IREMAINDER, to get: :: CK2&Dispatch SYMSYM :: FPTR2 ^STEPIDIV2 SWAPDROP ; BINT17 :: FPTR 7 19C FPTR2 ^STEPIDIV2 SWAPDROP ; ; @ I would opt for the FPTR2 ^STEPIDIV2 command (how it works should be obvious, as should its connection with the UserRPL words IREMAINDER & IDIV2). this It works! However I am still at a loss as to how you got this romptr because on my calc if I use EDOB on xIREMAINDER I get ERROR ??? I am trying this from within Emacs. Just for comparison purposes my MASD version is 5.10 I get the same error when I try to decompile xIDIV2.... :( -John Mart II Since FPTR2 ^STEPIDIV2 appears to take only integers as arguments, when using this command I have to run FPTR 7 19C which appears to check if two numbers are integers and convert them to integers if they are not I'm not sure about this. Then after running FPTR2 ^STEPIDIV2 I must dia CR2016 cards tot it works. Anyone use this command? What's the right sintax? set clearchannel off set protocol xmodem {} {} {sx -k %s} {sx -k %s} {rx %s} {rx %s} Then you can use the C-Kermit commands send and recieve: ... and on the calc: For some reason I don't know it's got about 10s delay before the transmission starts, but then it's quite fast (around 850B/s). Thomas only question is if there's a way to just put the calc in xserver mode No, the server is AFAIK a xmodem-extension by HP and there's no support for it under Linux. 1518 X 65, I have owned (* still own) 6S(*),10BII(*),11C,12C,15C,16C,21,25(*),34C,41C,41CV,41CX(*) 28C,28S(*),40G(*),48SX(*),48GX(*),49G(*) 71B(*),75C(*),95LX,100LX,200LX,700LX(*) I have used: 01Golden,19C,25C,29C,33E,33C,35,37E,38C,45,55,65,67,70,80,91,92,97 AND I have owned and still own several Sharp BASIC Programmable My 1500 has the 4-color Plotter, plus external Cassette Drive Hey even my 41CX has HP-IL and the HP Digital Cassette Drive I have sold my 71B Floppy Drive :-( which I regret Maybe I'll buy the new style HP 12C ?? (with one battery only) PS: I prefer RPN, but BASIC is nice, too Hei, Veli-Pekka. Mit.8a kuuluu? Paljonko? Hyv.8aksyttek.9a luottokortin? :-) Kiitos, N.8ahd.8a.8an. johil@tv3mail.com - -- 23 de abril... Feliz d.92a You got it right from the start. :-) The mathematical question is more or less, What set of numbers can I use, to achieve a unique factorization of a given Gaussian integer like 10-5*i? The answer is, Use the set of Gaussian integers, to which 2-i and 2+i belong. The prime integer 5, is no more prime then, because it is factorizable to (2-i)*(2+i). (This material is covered in the complex numbers Marathon, advertisement end ;-) The HP49Gical question is, why doesn't it factor 10-5*i when the software in it *can* do that? Nick. OT49 attaches besides itself also the libs 256 and 257. Hence, an auto-attach of 257 is dispensable. - Wolfgang Where can I buy expansion cards and ram cards for the GX? how much do they go for? jjb Jeremiah: Try http://www.weinert-engineering.de/eng/index.html?calc Alan McCornack Try in http://uuhome.de/oklotz/index_e.html#prices they go for? HewPaq -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk Calculators 'WERE' Us! Is it possible to evaluate an equation, stored in a local variable, with a variable also stored in a local varible? I am not able to accomplish this. However, using global varibles works just fine, but those are about twice as slow. Example: The stack looks like this: 2: 'X^2' 1: 5 And the program: .82 EQ EVAL .8e .8e I want it to return 25 but it returns 'X^2'. /Erik just I would use small letters in locals: .82 eq 'X' x = @ 'X^2' 'X=5' SUBST @ '5^2' EVAL @ 25 eq x @ arguments back .8e DROP2 @ this is for LASTARG .8e in news jqYw8.2514$p56.499156@newsb.telia.net posted 22/04/2002 20:14, Erik When you run your programm, EQ just recall what is stored in the local EQ. But EVAL don't change it as the X of 'X^2' is a global one and 5 is stored in a local name. How do you whant your HP knowing what you have in mind as your programm could have been .82 EQ EVAL .8e .8e too ? One place that sells various surveying software for the HP 48GX is Calcpro website www.calcpro.com. I have bought from them several times and have had good dealings with its manager, Paul Nelson. There is a shareware one out there. Do a search on www.hp.org or www.area48.com Mark Is it possible to make a partfrac of 1/x^3+1 becuse the normal command doesn't work? Because i think the complex roots! In fact I want to calculate this integral step by step 1/x^3 + 1 = (1/x^3) + 1 is already partial fractioned, I think you mean 1/(x^3+1). This can be done by hand in reals, with one quadratic factor (If you intend to integrate, it is easier to do it in reals). 1/(x^3+1) = A/x + (B*x+C)/(x^2-x+1) 1 = A*(x^2-x+1) + (B*x+C)*(x+1) When x = -1, 1 = 3*A, so A = 1/3 When x = 0, 1 = A + C, so C = 2/3 When x = 1, 1 = A + 2*B + 2*C, so B = -1/3 My erabled 48GX, does it: put in complex mode and try again I gather the normal command is PARTFRAC? It works, you just have to be in complex mode... No step by step for this integral, unles it's by hand.... I want to realize the decomposition of the fraction 1/x^3+1 But the command part frac doesn't work. Is because of the complex roots? Eventually I would like to solve this integral step by step! Vince Connecting a HP to a TI? Does that not lead to ahnililation of the universe? Please do not do that. Well, if someone is interested in doing the hardware for this connection (it can be done with a simple state machine, or a small FPGA), I can give all the information as I, at one point reverce engineered the protocol (physical and logical) universe? As an ex-ACO'er I find this offensive I expect a lot of us do. For the time being, heading directly for symbolic complex quantities. For the far future, extracted from the log: There are only two possible destinations for this journey. Either we travel and travel through the wonderful land of mathematics/physics, or we land at why-can't-the-calc-do-that-out-of-the-box-land. I trust Obi Van Trabakoulas and the cows (the real force) that there will be no end to the journey. Odysseus. Nick. logarithm operations. I searched on my manual but i just found ln and log on base 10. ln will be on base e and log in base 10. If you want a log in base 2 (which I think you mean by binary) then just use the formula: log(x)/log(2) or ln(x)/ln(2) whatever looks better to you I guess that by saying binary you mean log base of 2. You must define a small program to do this, such as which in approximate mode gets a number (x) from stack and produces the required, log base 2 of x. Instead of LOG (log base 10) you can use LN (log base e)to do the job. !Demeter! warning but the annunciator ((o)) is not on. This warning appears only during operation of the calculator and not during turn on as the manual says. Is something wrong? Yes, I know some of you are going to say change the batteries but I want to know whether my calculator is Santos Lucero If you really get the message LowBat(S) during normal operation, then it doesn't seem properly operating. Perhaps you try [ON]-[C]? Nick. Hum... Yes something is wrong: Change the batteries ! More seriously, the batteries are checked when an interrupt occurs, that is typically when you're pressing a key. So this behavior is perfectly normal. I no longer see the HP 32S II listed on HP's website. Instead, I see an algebraic 30S. Has the 32S II product been discontinued? Is HP moving away from RPN? -Doug away Yes.. No stock left unfortunately. Is there an hp-48 (or equiv) emulator that i can install without owning the actual calculator? (if needed) where would I find the rom image and then where would i install it in the directory tree? are there any emulators with documentation? i installed x48 into debian 2.2 (potato), but it wants a rom image. even if i were to find the image and put it in the right place, i can find no documentation on the program. The eskimo.com link to a *.tar.gz file is down, but perhaps there are other suitable roms. sincerely, bk mcdonald, pdx, oregon, usa please take a look at www.hpcalc.org. There are ROM images, too. Be sure to read the docs how to convert the image to a suitable format for any of the emulators. Raymond hey i am trying desperately to understand the cordic algorithm...i know that calculators use it...i have an hp49g..does it use it too? the goal is to write a program in PC assembly language which uses the CORDIC algorithm i have found: http://www.math.tamu.edu/~jmorgan/Right_Angle_March_99/calculator.htm but i am getting stuck on the part where it talks about a subsequence of values (see the middle of the page, where it has the sigma symbol)...i know the notation but can't c how it ties into it..and the rest of the page depends on ur understanding of that sub sequence!!! It does for transcendental elementary functions I believe. The above link doesn't provide a very good explanation of the CORDIC algorithm - the approach it takes is algorithmically stupid ( ...requires at most 50 multiplications... ) and unclear ( ...there exists a subsequence... ) IMHO. No one uses this approach in Real Life [TM]. Instead we iteratively perform the computation theta_(n+1) = theta_n + d * arctan( 2^(-n) ) ( d = +/- 1 ) where at each step we choose the d that brings theta_n closest to zero. Since there is no subsequence of the values arctan( 2^(-n) ) the multiplications by the values 2^n/(arctan( 2^(2n) + 1) can be precomputed for any fixed number of iterations. A very clear and concise explanation of this method can be found at http://www.fpga-guru.com/cordic.htm . Hope this helps... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- before replying. On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:10:34 -0500, Jonathan Busby This should be theta_(n+1) of course. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- before replying. what about that? OVER 3 SWAP @ from 3 to n+2: START OVER ROLL @ get top level element IF OVER 2 MOD @ if least significant bit set THEN ROT ROT @ then leave element on stack ELSE DROP SWAP 1 - SWAP @ else drop it and decrement list size END 2 / IP @ shift number to the right 105 bytes, cksm 66D7 (on stack) Is it just me or I just don't get it ? :) Well my first attempt would be something like this: open up the list into the stack, last one in the first level. Initialize an empty LIST. Loop: Use the binary number so that you can process several items at once: either add to a LIST or just DROPN. When 111 runs out of the binary then DROPN the rest. Result is a LIST. I leave it to Mr. JRL the implementation and ofcourse anyone could make the algorithm better... UserRPL, remember... I am trying to use a hp48gx program in a hp49.I found this line IF XLIB 171 90 THEN... and I am trying to use an equivalent line without using a hp48gx xlib. Does anyone what can I use? XLIB 171 90 ( ROMPTR AB 5A ) is just the user-rpl INFORM command . Hope this helps... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- before replying. Are you sure about the 90 ? there's no built-in XLIB 171 90 on the HP48G.. Otherwise, what you can do to find out on how to replace it (you need a HP48G for that, an emulator is fine), Type #aaabbb LIBEVAL on an empty stack where aaa is the command number in at the error name. Then see just put this name on the HP49. This I Why don't you simply evaluate the term of the list ? if it's a real nothing will happen, if it's infinity or any other symbolic constant, then the type will be changed. Dan thank you for the tip. :) Given the following equation: hf=(3.01*v^1.85)/(c^1.85*d^1.17) Symbolically solve for 'c', the 49g gives solve error: non unary operator. The same is true when using the isol command. Is there a way of symbolically solving these types of equations on the 49g? Also noteworthy is the fact that the ti89, using solve() is able to reduce the above to: c=1.814*[v^1.85/(d^1.17*hf)] I've called HP support, and they acknowledged this issue - but have been able to find a work around. It appears that the 49g's weakness lies in its ability to evaluate exponents. For example try this on the 49g: (x^.258)*(x^.125)=no solution The 89 yeilds: x^.383 I have a feeling that the flag settings may be playing a part in this. Anybody have any ideas Glenn No, it doesn't survive a warmstart (=ON&C). No application does, be that the ON-key is intensionally disabled. Also no supendend programs does, even the content of PICTURE and some flag settings are lost if not saved in STARTUP. That's OK since a warmstart is a kind of (soft) resetting the calculator. - Wolfgang You can easily make your own OBJFIX program on the HP49. Argument: 1: Name of a variable that contains a String with HPHP49-Cxxxxxx on the stack 256 ATTACH Then compile this program: << MEM DROP RCL ->H 26 + H-> NEWOB >> > > There may be a simple answer to this problem: > > When I download from hpcalc and transfer the program to my 49, upon > > execution, I get a string printed on the stack. Specifically, I have Similar problems can happen with the 48. What does the start of the > string look like? Has someone managed to port OBJFIX to the 49 yet? :) > Ray-O-Vac is also saying that its newest power stations > are ready to recharge anything: Renewal, NiMH, or NiCd > (did they update the electronics, or just the packaging?) I hope they updated the electronics :-) AIUI, NiCds need constant current charging with some form of end-of-charge-voltage detection, Renewals need current pulse charging (with rests to allow the open circuit voltage to drop), terminated by the average pulsed current dropping (nearly) to zero. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I keep getting this message when I turn on the GX. I know there is a command to re-initialize all the ports, but just dont remember it. Any help would be appreciated. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > I keep getting this message when I turn on the GX. I know there is a command > to re-initialize all the ports, but just dont remember it. Any help would > be appreciated. PINIT >Details should popup soon on various www-pages. I was at there also and got the free HP49G. I like the calculator but it doesn't give me the impression that it is made to last like my 48Gx. Was quite distressed for quite some time when on first power up, I couldn't get the menus to appear on function keys; instead the menu items were in choose boxes. Finally stumbled into flag -117 that controls this!! Setting this flag (via MODES / FLAGS) yields menu choices on function keys. Also, the Handbook is incorrect. According the the Handbook: Set: The default menu form is a choose box Clear(default setting): The default menu is a set mapped to the function keys This is incorrect; it should read (at least according to the operation of my machine): Set: The default menu is a set mapped to the function keys Clear(default setting): The default menu form is a choose box. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On power up, my HP49 gave a 'Invalid Card Data' message. Then, it displayed some type of graphic for a split second: ------------------------------------- | Powered by: | | | |<> | |cw ver3.0 | ------------------------------------| The machine will repeat this sequence on a F4 keystroke. Any comments/other details? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The line near the bottom of the previous post should read: The machine will repeat this sequence on a F4 Q sequence. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't mean to be 'whining' here; just found an interesting difference here on the 49 vs the 48: A feature on my HP48 which I enjoyed and used quite often is the Fn to store the bottom stack item in the VAR indicated by the Fn key. On the HP49 (where the blue shift of the STO key is RCL), the Fn seems to do a STO. Further, if one is to tick the variable via the apostrophe ( ' ), the apostrophe on the 49 is a shifted stroke, so it is a bit more cumbersome to get at. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok, so I can find the 256 Menu that JKH says contains Hacker's tools. Can I use one or more of them to compile SysRPL programs right on the 49? 256.01 [ ->H ][ H-> ][ ->A ][ A-> ][ A->H ][ H->A ] 256.02 [ ->CD ][ CD-> ][ S->H ][ H->S ][->LST ][->ALG ] 256.03 256.04 [APEEK ][ R~SB ][ SB~B ][ LR~R ][ S~N ][ LC~C ] 256.05 [ASM-> ][BetaT ][CRLIB ] ----- Poke, peek, CRLIB I can get, but ->H, ->A... I'm clueless... Any info or pointers to info would be greatly appreciated. Yes and no. You can hack together anything you like, but almost all the System RPL entry points have moved, so you have to be careful. As best as I can figure, here's what the commands are: [->H] To Hex. Same as ->ASC in the 48 HACK library. [->A] To Address. Same as ADDR in the 48 HACK library. [A->H] Address to Hex. Converts #12345h to 54321. [H->A] Hex to Address. Converts 54321 to #12345h. [->CD] To Code. Turns a string of hex digits into a Code object. [CD->] Code Out. Turns a Code object into a string of hex digits. [->LST] Make List. Composite or meta-ob --> list. [->ALG] Make Algebraic. Composite or meta-ob --> algebraic. [->PRG] Make Program. Composite or meta-ob --> program. [COMP->] Composite Out. Composite --> meta-object. [SREV] String Reverse. Turns strings backwards. [PEEK] Extracts the raw hex at any address. [APEEK] ? Indirect PEEK? [R~SB] Real <-> System Binary. Converts reals to bints & back. [SB~B] System Binary <-> Binary. Bints to user binaries & back. [LR~R] Long Real <-> Real. [S~N] String <-> Name. Change VERSION to 'VERSION' & back. [LC~C] Long Complex <-> Complex. [ASM->] Assembly Out. Disassembles Code objects into source code. [BetaTesting] --> 184-byte string useful for testing string routines. [CRLIB] Create Library. Works similar to HP48 lib creators. > [ASM->] Assembly Out. Disassembles Code objects into source code. No [->ASM] ? Anybody want to poke around ASM-> and see where the entries table is? (ie, compile a list of entries, port to HP49, and decompile?) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, according to Emeric Vernat, no [->ASM], that's right! Maybe another command does it? Oh yes, you can use them to compile SysRPL programs ! I think these commands come from the library Dev by Etienne de Foras. ( I have emailed him to ask for a little doc. Or someone has one ?) With H-> you can find pointers for every command. We can for example find pointers for every old-UserRPL command and so, we can write a converter of HP48G to HP49 for UserRPL program. (We should assume that these commands have the same behaviours) . Take a look at: http://www.hpcalc.org/apps/mk/mk230pdf.zip It's the MetaKernel documentation (abridged). On page 43, you arrive at Chapter 4: Miscellaneous Utilities. Most of the menu commands from menu 256 are there, but there still doesn't seem to be an assembler/compiler command. But I think Etienne de Foras and Dev 3.1 is off the hook on this one. SO, I ask again: How do I compile a SysRPL program on the 49G, given the program as a string on the stack (JYA? JKH?) - C. Fishburn > Oh yes, you can use them to compile SysRPL programs ! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I have recently purchased a 48gx but I noticed that for $70 more I could get a 49g. I can return the calculator and get the 49, is it worth it? I am majoring in math and science at university and I wish to teach ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I just got off the phone with Wholesale Advantage (I know...not the same, but I figured the input would probably be appreciated)...they gave me a ship date of Thursday, August 26. That would put the Calc into my hands on Wednesday, September 1. I know I was about 120th on the list... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Treat it like a textbook: at the end of the semester, if you like it and think it's valuable (or expect to need it for a future course), keep it. If not, sell it; the depreciation in value is the part of the cost of education. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can find a lot of info on the 48 at www.hpcalc.org. our Speed UP have 30-50% for every thing you made with the HP49G (alos HP48) and 100 % for connection to another HP49 with speed up so transferspeeds up to 30720 baud are possible !!! >Since the CPU/controller on the 49 uses the high voltage pin (previously >for the IR) for falshing the ROM, how does this work. we split the normal rs232-Port to 2 Ports - rs232 and IR, thats all > Is another chip >(ie controller) added ? no it is the same. M >screen: > even though the screen is higher constrast, > it is covered by super shiney plastic that glares > under most lights and if the light isn't positioned > right, shadows are cast under the lcd characters. The plastice lens (screen shield?) almost negates the benefits of the higher contrast screen. It get's annying to look at under certain lighting conditions--especially under polarized light when you get to see rainbow light interferance patterns. They should have use glass or an optical plastic. >I've only had the 49 one day and > there are already scratches > on the shiney plastic screen cover. I've had the 48 > for a few years and there are no scratches on it's screen Big Timne Ditto. It gets worse after w a week. I've even tried using car wax to hide the scratches but it only helped a little. fonts: > while there are 3 main fonts (6,7 & 8 pixels tall) on > the 49, they don't have one as large as the normal > 48 sized font (9 pixels tall) - I suppose you can > eventually download larger fonts into the flash? The small fonts don't delight me to much, especially if I have to strain my eyes to see the screen with the plastic lens. >>layout: > it's hard to get used to the enter key at the > bottom right. > in RPN mode some keys require > pressing a shift key WHILE simultaneously pressing > another button which isn't easy if you are holding > the calculator (entering the graphing screens > requires this) cover: > is there a trick to taking the cover on and off? > it takes so much force to pull it off I'm afraid > I'm gonna fling the calculator across the room.. I am going to fling the cover across the room. It will loosen up in a few days. I started using a old nylon 48 case which also holds the pocket guide nicely. At first I liked the idea of a cover because I broke a 48 screen (hence extra case), but I don't like the unit not seated snugly in the cover when it is being used (it's a sloppy fit and a bit hard to get off). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- When you take the HP 49G out of the blister pack in which it shipped, the first thing you do is ***REMOVE THE PLASTIC SHIPPING FILM*** which covers the real screen! I pointed this out to some of attendees at the 1999 Handheld Users Conference Vancouver, WA. And yes, as several fellow attendees to the conference have pointed out, Hewlett Packard did indeed give a brand new production HP 49G to each and every person who attended conference, a most gracious act on their part. > > even though the screen is higher constrast, it is covered by super > > shiney plastic that glares under most lights and if the light isn't > > positioned right, shadows are cast under the lcd characters. > The plastice lens (screen shield?) almost negates the benefits of the higher > contrast screen. It get's annying to look at under certain lighting > conditions--especially under polarized light when you get to see rainbow > light interferance patterns. They should have use glass or an optical > plastic. > >I've only had the 49 one day and > > there are already scratches > > on the shiney plastic screen cover. I've had the 48 > > for a few years and there are no scratches on it's screen > Big Timne Ditto. It gets worse after w a week. I've even tried using car > wax to hide the scratches but it only helped a little. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > After about a 4-5 days worth of taking the case off / putting back on, > it will be much easier to do so. > I have found that depressing the case in the center while sliding the > cover off helps considerably. I agree about the screen, perhaps HP wanted to cut down on the number > of smashed screen complaints. Whatever the reason, HP should've known > better than to put a reflective surface over the screen (mine also has > a slight rainbow discoloration to it, enhanced by the position of the > light) I believe the graphing speed hype is from the FAST3D plot type. It > allows you to rotate a 3d plot very quickly. Although it is nice, I > don't know how useful it could be. One thing that has haunted me: is there some ASIM functionality of this > calculator? Aside from the Algebraic Simp that we found in Alg48, I > also detect a lack of numeric->rational conversion. One program I found > useful for that was Qpiracine (from hpcalc.org) it could take .707... > and turn it into sqrt(2)/2. Something strange (although it is correct) I have found is when you > want to take higher roots of numbers, sqrt of 120 displays as usual. > When you take the 3rd root, it is in terms of ln and exp. It is indeed > correct to write that, I just wasnt expecting that representation. Some other observations: > there are two algebraic tick symbols. One is a fancy ' and the other > is the standard '. To get the fancy one hold down the right shift and > press EQW, to get the standard tick, press (do not hold) the right > shift and press eqw. > to purge from the stack, press the tool button: then it is F5 > I found that left-shift mode was to hard to access the Custom menu, so > I re-assigned the CAT button to do the same: <<1 menu> > > > cover: > > > is there a trick to taking the cover on and off? > > One hand holds the 49 by the rubber ears at the top. Other hand > grips > > the sliding cover at the *bottom* between thumb on top and next 2 or 3 > > fingers between cover and case. Use these fingers to apply > > pulling pressure and you'll find the cover pops off nicely... with > > the 49 still in your hand :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, I was depressed to find out all the work apparently went into fancy calc. and alg. stuff, not usability (defind as easy to use when you actually learn how to use it!). I still figured the screen and memory sounded like a good upgrade from the 48. Now, as I understand it from info. on this group, 1) The screen in no better, at best, than the HP48 2) The calc is just about no faster for the _work_ I do with it 3) Garbage collection is worse 4) The calc can be slower and harder to use with less soft keys 5) The keyboard is cumbersome because of layout and hard-to-press keys. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Okay, I was depressed to find out all the work apparently went into > fancy calc. and alg. stuff, not usability (defind as easy to use > when you actually learn how to use it!). Very unfair statements, I would say, spoken from extensive non-experience. Why not let the collective statements of all those people who do have the calc in their hands stand for themselves, and not dilute them by reinforcing negativity from people who did not learn all the helpful things that evidently *do* enhance usability, as discovered and related for others' benefit by people who have really taken the time to use the thing for a while. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This morning, i got my flashy new Hp49G. However, there are some stuffs written in the manual that don't work with my calc : -The blue-shifted graph function (Y=, WIN, GRAPH, 2D/3D, TBLSET and TABLE), don't work at all in RPN mode (it is just like i pressed w/o the blue-shift). However, it wirks perfectly in Algebraic mode... -Where is the Coma mode ?? I tried ON-C but it didn't work. In RPM mode, hold the blue shift down while you press the function key. (Only needed for the special functions on the Fkeys, not needed for normal shift operation.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In RPN mode *hold down* left-shift while pressing F1. > -Where is the Coma mode ?? I tried ON-C but it didn't work. If you mean using comma as a fraction mark then press MODE and check the FM, box > In RPN mode *hold down* left-shift while pressing F1. > > -Where is the Coma mode ?? I tried ON-C but it didn't work. > > If you mean using comma as a fraction mark then press MODE and check > the FM, box No, i mean to put the calc. in the COMA status. With the 48, you just have to press ON+SPC. But with the 49, it doesn't seem to work... > Have you tried ON+SPC ? 'ON-C'...:o) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Can anyone advise me on how to prompt with text for data input on HP48 Also is it possible to plot STD curves as a line curve and not ---------------------------------------------------------------------- There's a simple, scriptable RPN calculator, and some simple graphing software, but nothing (to my knowledge) at all near the abilities of even the 28. Keep in mind the focus of the Palm and its market -- it's a PDA, not a scientific calculator. A friend suggested a Palm 7, linked to a Mathematica engine. IMHO it'd be cool, except for the fact that Mathematica's rather overpowered for anything where you're not using an actual computer. However, it would be interesting if the screen was sized up to 8.5x11. The AUG is the manual that tells (hopefully) all that the manual coming with the HP 49G doesn't tell you. A simpler definition would be : the AUG is the RPN and programming manual. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- It will probably do justice to the flags, commands, errors, status messages, etc.. But as far as Assembly language goes, I didn't think that was part of the deal. I thought the understanding there was that the development software would be included, but not supported -- i.e. you're on your own. So while it might explain UserRPL and HPBasic (Algebraic version of UserRPL?), SysRPL and Asm would be very much at your own risk. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > I'm not following you. Where, exactly, is it? The only semicircle I > see on top is to orient the serial cable. At the top of the lcd (where indicators such as the shift and alpha keys are shown). It looks like an oil ring you would see in a parking lot (or, more exactly, on the top of my newton's screen if lots of oil gets on it). (Did that help?) -- The pins are completely different. (10-pin vs 4-pin) I believe the answer is no. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Use the 49 cable and nothing else, or you *will* have something go completely berserk! > For those interested, given 3 ZS as input the following calculates > 3^1000 in 2.0s using a BCD version of ALG48 in port 1 (don't ask for it) << > > << << will do it in about 1.6s, then. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I also encountered a bug like the one you're giving, and I also got a memory Clear. Here are some others : -> Comma as fraction mark option doesn't work at all. Just try it : set comma FM mode, enter a complex number (2 3) in the stack, it will appear like this : (2,,3,) Nice, isn't it ? If you edit this number, it becomes (2,;3,), and the editor is unable to validate it (doesn't understand the semicolon). Obviously this feature hasn't fairly not been tested and is unusable. This is very bad. -> If you hold down the shift key and press the NXT key, you get the last menu. Fine. But if you do it inside the editor running itself inside the Files application this causes a hangup. I've found some other situations where the calculators hangs up. In some cases, if you are lucky, you can stop it with a system halt (ON+C). If not, use the reset hole, and maybe get a Memory clear... -> In the HP48, CHOOSE command with option 0 inhibits the cursor. This is useful to display long lists. This doesn't work in the 49. -> While viewing some huge matrices, my screen AND MY VARS got garbled. During 10 years of intensive 48 use (A,E,M), all the bugs I know are those I've read about in errata or in FAQS. I never encountered one by myself. On the other side, I think HP49 has a very good design. I find the keyboard layout has been very cleverly defined, the algebraic capabilities of the calc are really excellent, and some speed improvements on several applications are welcome (very good and usable equation editor, filer, pretty stack display...). Apart from the rewritten applications, execution of an RPL program is not faster than with the 48. In some cases (just try a boolean graph and compare by yourselves) the 49 can be much slower (why ?). I think this is a very good product but there is an urge for serious debugging (fortunately we can upgrade the system). Please ACO guys be quick, your sales will tightly depend on it ! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I transferred some stuff from my hp48gx to my brand new 49g, and noticed something weird... This is quite a long description, please read it, I'm quite desperate because of the problem... I have an algebraic expression, quite a complicated one, and when I try to graph it or just evaluate it by storing numbers to the variables involved, the hp49g simply freezes, while my 48gx evaluates the expression in a fraction of second. Here's how the expression looks like: 'LOG(ABS(c/f/*((1-COS(2**f/c*l))/SIN(2**f/c*l))/20))*20' (the expression depicts something related to a transmission line to a dipole antenna, don't remember what, I derived the formula for some time ago) the values for the variables are: f: 0 l: 20 c: 299792458 Actually, the equation produces an error on my hp-48gx, because there is a division by 0, but I could not get my 49g do anything else than just freeze. I tried everything I came to think about, i.e. tried to set 'numeric mode' on in CAS setup. I also tried to both evaluate the expression as it was after transferring from the 48gx (in ASCII mode) and after keying it in by hand. With values of 'f' that don't produce an error on the 48gx, the expression seems to evaluate reasonably on the 49g. Have I missed something crucial related how to evaluate things just numerically or what is going on? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > You can change this by checking the approx setting in the CAS set up > under MODES. Right... actually, I did this, too, sorry for not mentioning it... and to be more accurate again, when I try to graph the function (with setting 'f' as the indep. var of course), the calc complains about / : undefined result. I tried with adjusting the flags so that both infinite and overflow produce an 9e499, not an error. I tried everything I could think about, but still didn't get the 49g to graph the function. So far I am not very impressed on the 49g, but I guess it is mainly that it takes time to get used to it, which was the case with the 48gx as well. I like the 48 very much of its speed in numerical computation. I tested some of my old 48gx UserRPL programs on the 49g, and those ones that had lots of loops run very very slowly. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > I've got a very annoying bug with my HP49: > If I try to multiply a real matrix (type 3) with a real vector > (type 3), the calc just freezes, Oh, right. The funniest part is that, if you replace the second array by [5 6], i.e. use integers instead of reals, the calc is able to compute the solution. But your example does freeze the calc, indeed. Here's another one : Most HP49 predicates return integers : 1 for true, 0 for false. In some cases, the returned number is a real (type 0) : ex CHOOSE returns 1. or 0., in other cases, it's a an integer (type 28) : ex comparison functions (==, <, etc.). Why this inconsistency ? Could not booleans always be coded in the same type ? The fonction IFTE has a strange, strange bug : << 1 2 == Cool Oops IFTE >> works perfectly, but << 1 2 == 1 0 IFTE >> returns 'IFTE(0,1,0)'. No evaluation is done if the three arguments of IFTE are integers. You have to force it with ->NUM. I'm not trying to devaluate the HP 49, but I think there's an emergency to fix some big problems before the calc acquires a bad reputation. We all know this could be the worst thing to happen to it : not to sell because of being too buggy. And I repeat, I love the calc, but precisely, please ACO do something quick. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- let us have a look at the new possibility of doing hypothesis tests in our 49, e.g., ``z-test for 1 mu''. (Please forgive me not knowing all technical terms in english, but all who know about tests will surely understand what I mean.) I've written programs like these years ago but didn't published them for several reasons. The main reason still is that there is no agree upon which version of the rejection rule(?) is applicable. Suppose we have xbar = 9, sigma = 2, alpha = 0.05, n = 50 and we want to test the exspected value against 10 in a one-sided (?) test, i.e., mu > 10 or mu < 10. Then there are several possibilities to state the reject rule for H_0: mu > 10 against H_1: mu < 10: (0) ``Reject H_0 iff (xbar-mu_0)*sqrt(n)/sigma < -z_(1-alpha).'' (1) ``Reject H_0 iff (mu_0-xbar)*sqrt(n)/sigma > z_(1-alpha).'' (2) ``Reject H_0 iff xbar < mu_0-sigma*z_(1-alpha)/sqrt(n)'' (3) Here z_p denotes the p-quantile of the Standard Normal Distribution. Obviously the built-in programm uses the rejection rule (1) and achieves the correct result. But: *You must not have the choice between different alternative hypothesis* in our case, because if you choose (wrongly!!!) H_1: mu > 10, the rejection rule for H_0 reads: ``Reject H_0 iff (xbar-mu_0)*sqrt(n)/sigma > z_(1-alpha).'' (4) Well, here we have xbar < mu_0, so the left-hand side of (4) is always negative regardless the values of n and sigma an you will *never reject H_0.* In one-sides tests you have no choice choosing H_0 or H_1, the rule is: ``Choose H_1 such that the stated H_1 becomes true if you plug in xbar for mu.'' Ex.: Here we want to test H_0: mu (against) 10 vs. H_1: mu (against) 10. We have: xbar = 9 < 10. so we *must* choose H_1: mu < 10, otherwise we would always accept H_0 ... This choice can be done automatically by the program (as my programs do :). HP, we have Flash ROM! :-)) >please don't bash me if i'm mistaken.] numbers and other objects >can be mixed on the stack. you can pre-program a hot-key like >[left shift] [alpha] [.] that does a vector dot product, which Not user-defined keys, actually, but you can assign programs to the number keys; a program named kbdprgm1 will be executed on Diamond-1 HP beats TI here. >questions for the TI: hey, where is the list concatenation >function? can i pass a function or a function ref as an >argument into a program? [i could pass in say f(x) but that >is treated as an expression in x and i have to assume that >the expression is in x in the program. what if i want it >to be flexible and accept f(z), f(k) or f with other letter?] > You can perform indirection which has the highest priority of any operation. If you put # in front of a function or variable name, it uses the results of the function or contents of the variable, kind of like a pointer. Look up indirection in the manual for details. Don't know about the list concatenation. Overall, having read your post, I'm really starting to miss my 48. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, there's not really a ton of stuff converted over to the 49G format yet. Because the internals were switched around, running any 48G program on a 49G could be disasterous, or at the very least displeasing. > What kind of cable/connector do I need to be looking for to plug it > up to the PC? Will an HP48g* cable work with the HP49g? NNNNNOOOOOO!!!!!! Don't use a 48G cable! Apparently the 49G's ten-pin configuration isn't compatible with the old cable (10-pin was used on the 200LX). It uses the same four pins as the 48G for regular data transfer, but the rest are for the video bus. If you can't find a 49G connectivity kit, don't be surprised. The 38G kit is supposed to work. Although I'm wondering if the 49G kit is going to be released with the Advanced Users Guide and the SDK on CD? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The contest this year was to improve the following program by reducing the program bytes required. The technique of making the program a string and using OBJ-> to save bytes is *NOT* allowed. This adds so much to the run time - usually many minutes - that it is not practical. The program is a menu-prompting clock-adjust program to allow seconds, minutes, and hours adjustment. It displays the clock to allow the time to be visible and turns the clock off when the adjustment environment is exited. 'CADJ' << -40 SF { { S+ << 8192 CLKADJ >> } { M+ << 491520 CLKADJ >> } { H+ << 29491200 CLKADJ >> } { S- << -8192 CLKADJ >> } { M- << -491520 CLKADJ >> } { H- << -29491200 CLKADJ >> } { EXIT << -40 CF 0 MENU >> } } TMENU >> 282.5 Bytes, # DFFFh. Two approaches are possible. Improve the program using TMENU or use a different user interface that uses the same basic elements: 1. Turn on the clock when the program is run. 2. Provide an identified key for each of the six time adjustments. 3. Provide an EXIT function. 4. Turn off the clock when the program is EXITed or terminated. 3. User code only, no SYSEVALs, LIBEVALs, or machine code allowed. Here are the winning programs in order. 'JGS' << H- M- S- S+ M+ H+ 7 DISP 5 8 * NEG DUP SF WHILE 0 WAIT DUP PICT TYPE < REPEAT 13.6 - 5 3 %T OVER ABS 2 INV - ^ 8192 * SWAP SIGN * CLKADJ END DROP CF >> 147.0 Bytes, # C021h. John Gustaf Stebbins. 'JYA' << 8 -5 * SF S+ M+ H+ S- M- H- 7 DISP IFERR DO 1 5 3 %T DUP DUP * 3 ->LIST 8192 * DUP NEG + 0 WAIT IP 1 ALOG - GET CLKADJ UNTIL 0 END THEN 2 DROPN END 8 -5 * CF >> 'DTM' << -5 8 * SF{:H-:-29491200:H+:29491200:M+:491520: M-:-491520:S-:-8192:S+:8192} OBJ-> TMENU DO DUP IFERR INPUT THEN DROP2 1 ELSE IFERR OBJ-> CLKADJ THEN 1 ELSE 0 END END UNTIL END -5 8 * CF 0 MENU >> 177.0 Bytes, # F9#7h. Detlef Muller Every programmer looked at the others and saw ways their program could be improved. le Program and be less than 147 bytes. Judging these is always difficult. It must be done is a short time, everyone is waiting, and it should be fair and consistent. Did 'DTM' violate the no string, OBJ-> rule? > The Metakernel and CAS splash screens can be seen briefly during boot. If > you press ON at the right time, it will stay on screen for inspection. That's press AND HOLD the ON key at the right time during boot-up. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I am thinking of buying a 4 MB ram card and also a 128k card from Klotz for my 48GX. I realise that the Klotz cards are not HP approved cards. I was wondering if anyone could help me with the following: Has anyone used the 4 MB Klotz card or other Klotz cards? Are there any special problems with fitting two non-approved cards in the same calculator? I just picked up a 49G two days ago, but it is already showing a considerable number of scratches on the screen (none viewable from head on though). This seems to be a common occurrence doesn't it? I have taken off the sticky plastic cover used for protection during shipping and display, and (fwiw) I am one who takes great care to not scratch screens (my newton, without a screen cover, is four years old and still doesn't have a single scratch on its screen). > there is a free download math engine for palm (i don't have one) http://www.calerga.com/products/LyME/ > Looks good. Wait till they get some maths progs. > But it is bigger and heavier than TI 92. ed > another gadget: http://www.alphasmart.com/products/dana_overview.html > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- J.Manrique Lopez de la Fuente jsmanrique_lopez@yahoo.es Miembro del CdU de la ETSIIG (Antiguo Club de Usuarios de la ETSIIG) http://www.etsiig.uniovi.es/asociaciones/clubsu ,,,,, En http://opalo.etsiig.uniovi.es/~zz921174 ~.~/ / Don't underestimate the power of RPN --------oOOO-(_-_)-OOOo----------------------------------------------------- --- i found this printer. from the page, it may work with the hp49g/hp48g http://storefront.metrocall.com/mcll/assets/bsnsltns_assets/aps_content/tele metry/telemetry_pdfs/MSTIV_FC.pdf > I cant find the TI-89 or Texas Instucments newsgroup. Is there one at all? In iian there is: http://it.groups.yahoo.com/group/softwarestrumentitecnologici/ I am the founder and I speak english very well. > My problem is laziness. I have never really got down to using the 48 and > 49. The TI89/83 are real easy to use for my level of math. And I came to RPN > at age 35, a bit old to learn new tricks. > HP are best calcs by long way but not so simple to use. So you didn't notice that your 49G boots up in a TI-calc mode the Algebraic Mode?! Nothing special to learn about... Even the famous HP ENTER key is now in the lower right corner just like in a TI machine. Even the keyboard overall feel is much closer to that of a TI than any HP calc, say - a HP 48 keyboard feel. VP Put {7} < on the stack and execute map, that change the pixels, is that normal, rom 1.19-6. Paul Estepan. Nothing extraordinary happens...what are your flags? RCLF { # 20A00B8C85014FF0h # 0h # 8010300C2A0780E8h # 0h } VP > Put {7} < on the stack and execute map, that change the pixels, > is that normal, rom 1.19-6. Paul Estepan. With about 20 libs in the ports - which is normal for a somewhat advanced user - paging the LIB menu on the LIB key is intolerably slow. With the filer, libs can be purged and moved, but the LIB menu can in no way be rearranged. Libman solves these and related problems. In addition, libs not used for a longer period or never used directly (like extable) can be send to sleep. They remain active but will not slow down the paging anymore. A spacer inserts gaps in the LIB menu, to complete a game-page if you have just 5 games, say. And the LIB menu can be reordered as you like, similar to but much faster than ORDER from JYA's filer. Because of this and of some other detail, Libman is strictly copyrighted, but free for personal use, of course. The new version 7.2002 is presently available only at ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/tools/ Despite of of its comfort, Libman has only 1.8 KB. It is a typical normal-user interface enhancement tool. Hacker options are reduced to a minimum. Comments in this NG or on hpcalc.org are wellcome. Have fun Wolfgang > Syntax error > G=* when I try to drag the EQDIR from the PC into the calc's HOME Try to be in binary mode instead of ASCII, and use Xmodem for faster transfers. This problem may happen if you try sending a file using ASCII mode. > have my calc here at the moment). I believe the names are only characters > but are somewhat long names, maybe 10 or 12 chars. According to the User's Guide, the names can be up to 127 characters long, so I don't think that the name length is a problem. Just what sort of problems are you having? Invalid Name errors? Invalid Syntax errors? Something else? Note that if you have the fraction mark set to ,, then the calculator won't accept names with a . in them. The calculator will briefly display Invalid Name and the PC Connection Kit will tell you Error message from the calculator or something like that. > Also, the one program > causing problems during the transfer is either 'XV' or 'XC' as copied > from John Meyers' post But you can transfer some other files ok? Now that I do find surprising. I can transfer 'XV' and 'XC' between two 49Gs or back and forth between a 49G and a PC with no problem. I suppose that it's possible that one of these could've gotten corrupted. You might want to try downloading them from John's post again. > What seems strange to me, too, is that I can copy everything from > 49g -> PC. It's just the PC -> 49g direction that gives me problems. Not all that strange. The calculator and PC will almost certainly have different rules for global variable/file names. Also, there are ridiculously easy ways around the 49G's naming rules. Even though I can't ordinarily put an object and an invalid name on the stack and do a STO, I can use the filer to change a valid name to one that's invalid, or I could use the S~N command to change a string to a name. Some of these invalid names would be silly -- who would want to name a variable 'A+B' or 'SIN', for example? But some might be rather innocent looking, with a forbidden character or matching a command name that the user isn't aware of. So one might well transfer a variable with a name that's supposedly invalid on the calculator to the PC, and as long as the PC accepts it as a valid file name (the 32-bit versions of MS Windows are rather liberal about what they'll accept), it would probably go unnoticed. For that matter, I could change the file name on the PC. But if I try to transfer the file back to a calculator using an invalid name, it won't work. If the PC Connection Kit recognizes that the name is invalid, it will give you the options of supplying a new name, skipping that particular file, or canceling the entire transfer. Names that match a command name are changed, regardless of the state of flag -36. Other name problems will cause the calculator to error with Invalid Filename. Another difference is that when you transfer a variable to the PC, the transfer program checks that it's received exactly what was sent, but otherwise the data is just a file of arbitrary bytes as far as the PC is concerned. But when you send a file to the calculator, the calculator's transfer program first checks that it's received exactly what was sent, and then the compiler tries to compile it into a valid object; if it can't (for example, it finds a } without a matching { preceding it), then it gives you an Invalid Syntax error. > I'll try a direct 49g -> 49g transfer and see how that goes. If the same variables don't give you the same problems, that will certainly give us something to think about. > again for your help. You're welcome. -- James hi, just downloaded and trying Emu48 v1.30 for the first time. i downloaded emu48-1.30.zip from the hpcalc.org site. i also got the ROM.48G and ROM.48S files from this site too. when i run Emu48.exe it presents a Choose your KML Script dialog. i have no idea what these are, so i just select Emu48's Default Faceplate for HP48G/GX. i'm running windows xp pro. when i click OK, it displays the calculator window, then crashes with the following error message: EMU48.EXE - Application Error The instruction at 0x0041080d referenced memory at 0x7b306c61. The memory could not be read. it also crashes under win2k pro SP2 (see below). apparently it is compatible with both win xp and win 2k. i have also tried running it under win 95 compatibility mode, but same results. also regardless of the KML Script i initially select. any ideas?? roland under win2k, it logs a DrWatson message in the event log: Event Type: Information Event Source: DrWatson Event Category: None Event ID: 4097 Time: 13:38:38 User: N/A Computer: ************* Description: The application, , rated an application error The error occurred on 06/23/2002 @ 13:38:38.814 The exception rated was c0000005 at address 0041080D () Data: 0000: 0d 0a 0d 0a 41 70 70 6c ....Appl 0008: 69 63 61 74 69 6f 6e 20 ication 0010: 65 78 63 65 70 74 69 6f exceptio 0018: 6e 20 6f 63 63 75 72 72 n occurr 0020: 65 64 3a 0d 0a 20 20 20 ed:.. 0028: 20 20 20 20 20 41 70 70 App 0030: 3a 20 20 28 70 69 64 3d : (pid= 0038: 33 31 36 29 0d 0a 20 20 316).. 0040: 20 20 20 20 20 20 57 68 Wh 0048: 65 6e 3a 20 32 33 2f 30 en: 23/0 0050: 36 2f 32 30 30 32 20 40 6/2002 @ 0058: 20 31 33 3a 33 38 3a 33 13:38:3 0060: 38 2e 38 31 34 0d 0a 20 8.814.. 0068: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 45 E 0070: 78 63 65 70 74 69 6f 6e xception 0078: 20 6e 75 6d 62 65 72 3a number: 0080: 20 63 30 30 30 30 30 30 c000000 0088: 35 20 28 61 63 63 65 73 5 (acces 0090: 73 20 76 69 6f 6c 61 74 s violat 0098: 69 6f 6e 29 0d 0a 0d 0a ion).... 00a0: 2a 2d 2d 2d 2d 3e 20 53 *----> S 00a8: 79 73 74 65 6d 20 49 6e ystem In 00b0: 66 6f 72 6d 61 74 69 6f formatio 00b8: 6e 20 3c 2d 2d 2d 2d 2a n <----* ..... anyone know definitively what's going on at HP internaitional headquarters? Is their calculator division DOA? JJ This is a very good question. Sorry I don't have a definitive answer. There are lots of rumours and reports from around the world. It seems that the 32SII is definitely discontinued. However, for other models it seems that some retailers are running down their stock - by other models I mean the 17BII, which I think is probably going to be discontinued. However, the 12C and 19BII seem to be available - Staples claimed they had more 12Cs on order. I recently returned from Canada and didn't see any 39Gs, but I hope HP continue with it and the 40G. I also found places selling the 48GX, 48G (yes, the 32k model, for just CAD 69.99 inc. tax), and the 10B (not the 10BII). Prices of the 12C varied from CAD 100 to CAD 150 (exc. tax). The 30S was also in Staples, but I really don't like the 30S so I don't care about it anyway. There are also rumours of new calculators from HP in the not too distant future, but we'll have to wait and see. If they are like the 6S and 30S, we might as well forget it, IMHO. Perhaps HP will licence production of existing models, and simply cease to develop new units. There are some developments that can continue - for example the recent change of battery type for the 12C. Another might be enhanced displays with better contrast. But this is unlikely to set the calculator world on fire :-) Mark. > ..... anyone know definitively what's going on at HP internaitional > headquarters? > Is their calculator division DOA? Steve Sousa The inner cover text is: Top of Page in iic and black ink: The success and prosperity of our company will be assured only > if we offer our customers superior products that fill real needs and > provide lasting value, and that are supported by a wide variety of > useful services, both before and after sale. > > Statement of Corporate Objectives > Hewlett-Packard Bottom of Page in light blue/turquoise ink: When Messrs. Hewlett and Packard founded our company in 1939, > we offered one superior product, an audio oscillator. Today we offer > more than 3,000 quality products, designed and built for some of the > world's most discerning customers. Since we introduced our first scientific calculator in 1967, we've sold > over a million world-wide, both pocket and desktop models. Their > owners include Nobel laureates, astronauts, mountain climbers, > businessmen, doctors, students, and housewives. Each of our calculators is precision crafted and designed to solve the > problems its owner can expect to encounter throughout a working lifetime. HP calculators fill real needs. And they provide lasting value. Did you receive the scanned image of the inner cover? > Steve Sousa The inner cover text is: Top of Page in iic and black ink: The success and prosperity of our company will be assured only >if we offer our customers superior products that fill real needs and >provide lasting value, and that are supported by a wide variety of >useful services, both before and after sale. Statement of Corporate Objectives >Hewlett-Packard Bottom of Page in light blue/turquoise ink: When Messrs. Hewlett and Packard founded our company in 1939, >we offered one superior product, an audio oscillator. Today we offer >more than 3,000 quality products, designed and built for some of the >world's most discerning customers. Since we introduced our first scientific calculator in 1967, we've sold >over a million world-wide, both pocket and desktop models. Their >owners include Nobel laureates, astronauts, mountain climbers, >businessmen, doctors, students, and housewives. Each of our calculators is precision crafted and designed to solve the >problems its owner can expect to encounter throughout a working lifetime. HP calculators fill real needs. And they provide lasting value. > Steve Sousa > As of ca. 12:00 pdt 17-jun-2002, according to a salesman at hpshopping.com, > the hp-48gx has NOT been discontinued, although the 128 kbyte & 1 Megabyte > cards have. I'm looking for sys-rpl examples. Could you help me? Where could I download the infohp48.zip file with the examples of the James Donnelly book. > This one takes 750 ms on my HP49, and 710 ms on my HP48. The HP49 is now > 5% slower than the HP48, *on this precise example*. There should not be any differences between the HP48 and HP49 on this specific examples are your are running the same code internally on both machine. I suspect more a CPU difference or the actual way of measuring the execution time. > 12.50 degrees to 12 deg 30 min ? Try ->HMS HI all. After a loooooooong time without posting here, I am wondering if is there any hp48 emulator for risc os. hphreacker :-) Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:00:09 +1200 (NZT) 2 days 20h15m16s ago ... > If you already have the 9932.50 on the stack as a real > number from a previous calculation, start the TVM, press > HIST to activate the interactive stack,select the stack > level that your number's on, use ECHO to enter the number, James - just to confirm this now works here - I upgraded to ROM 1.19-6 :) - Tony > Sat, 22 Jun 2002 00:22:33 +1200 (NZT) > Yup - I had a real men block about typing the space to > separate the numbers! I'm not used to horizon RPN. Well, if you had been used to the HP48G series before, it's kind of normal as doing calculation in an Input Form was not possible before without going into the CALC menu. Another feature introduced in the HP49G >If I want to enter 10000-67.50 (=9932.50) as the PV for >example I seem to have to *type in* the 9932.50 Well it may not seem to be a problem Even if I have to do the 10000-67.50 separately in the >calculator that is fine - but even then I can't find a way to >transfer the 9932.50 to the FINANCE app. I have to type in the >9932.50. I am hoping there is a way around this, as I often use >results of calculations as input. Maybe I have been spoilt by >the TVM app in the HP100/200LX palmtops. Any hint gratefully appreciated. Especially a way to do simple >calcs right on the FINANCE command line. - Tony I've seen the other solutions which are quick. You can also use the NXT key, then press the CALC softkey. This brings you to the normal stack where you can do anything you want. Press the okay key to return level 1 to the active field. Bill alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) Sun, 23 Jun 2002 01:15:02 +1200 (NZT) 11h58m26s ago ... > I've seen the other solutions which are quick. You can also > use the NXT key, then press the CALC softkey. I don't think I'd ever pressed NXT before - will use it a lot now :) - Tony In this example there is an autorepeat for A key only: << 0 WAIT #071A2h SYSEVAL @ Start loop. TEST @ Program to be evaluated if A key is down. 1 @ A code. #18CEAh SYSEVAL @ COERCE #047C7h SYSEVAL @ Key pressed?. #633C6h SYSEVAL @ NOT_UNTIL. > I am wondering if there is a SYSEVAL for ALL key that would be down and not only for a specific one. I am wondering if there is a SYSEVAL to disable interrupts in UserRPL that would be combined in this loop: << #41F65h SYSEVAL @ WaitForKey. #1950Bh SYSEVAL @ UNCOERCE2 (convert to real number). DROP @ Now, the key number is in the stack. #071A2h SYSEVAL @ Start loop. << > @ Program to be evaluated if A key is down. #633C6h SYSEVAL @ NOT_UNTIL. > On 17 Jun 2002 17:20:32 -0700, bmarkwick@cfmx.com (Bill Markwick) >Here's Peter Karp's Cleansolver rewritten for the HP49. On hpcalc you'll find a version for the HP49 also from me (CSLR49). Wow, just have seen that this is already 2 1/2 years in the past. It seems I'm not getting younger :-o I'd prefer that solution as you won't need a SYSEVAL :-) I don't know sort of saver calc ;-) 0 MENU DROP -105 CF > } } + 2 ->LIST STEQ 30 MENU > I never thought about algebraic mode, as this doesn't exist on my HP49 :-) That's much too weird to use for my RPN trained fingers. Peter -- Great HP48/49 links: http://www.hpcalc.org http://move.to/hpkb to find *old* postings search: >Suppose I have a list: >{1 2 0 4} What is the smallest (fastest, most elegant) way to apply a function >like 1/x, except the zero is left a zero, and no error occurs. That >is, the result of the program is {1 .5 0 .25}, almost like applying >1/x If you're looking for a working solution instead of a user-rpl challenge you might like XCRUNCH (48 and 49 version available). A very nice program. Experiment a little bit with it. You'll like it. Peter -- Great HP48/49 links: http://www.hpcalc.org http://move.to/hpkb to find *old* postings search: I can compile directly on my 49G the following code: EQU DOZINT $02614 CODE CON(5) GARBAGE CON(5) DOCODE CON(5) DOREAL CON(5) DOCSTR CON(5) DOZINT CON(5) DOIDNT CON(5) $0 ENDCODE @ Does somebody know what the syntax must be to compile the above with debug2 ? Using CODEM instead of CODE leads to various errors. Is there a document explaining the difference between MASD syntax and debug2 syntax? TIA Andreas Well, I don't remember if Debug2 MASD supports CON, try: CODEM $(5) GARBAGE ENDCODE to see if it works.. BTW, there is no document explainig the diffs between Debug2 Masd and HP49 Masd, Sorry I can compile directly on my 49G the following code: > EQU DOZINT $02614 > CODE > CON(5) GARBAGE > CON(5) DOCODE > CON(5) DOREAL > CON(5) DOCSTR > CON(5) DOZINT > CON(5) DOIDNT > CON(5) $0 > ENDCODE > @ Does somebody know what the syntax must be to compile the above with debug2 ? > Using CODEM instead of CODE leads to various errors. > Is there a document explaining the difference between MASD syntax and debug2 syntax? 1. I may not have the latest extable version distributed with Emacs, but in my version ~BBGetN_ (which should be some rompointer of the 48-browser) decompiles to # 2D9D which is no rompointer but a bint (prolog address of programs) :-) 2. As I pointed out several times, Mika Heiskanen uses in JAZZ a very smart procedure: If a bint is written in a sourse string as # xyzuv with a space after the #-symbol, it compiles as the corresponding temporary 10 nibble bint (5 nibbles for the prolog). However, if it is written as #xyzuv without a space after # then JAZZ looks first up the entry table to find a corresponding 5 nibble pointer to the bint. Example: # 11 should compile to bint 17 (5 bytes), #11 should compile to BINT17 2.5 bytes). This should concern also bints with unsupported but stable addresses, exactly as it is done by JAZZ ! What the hell is so difficult in realizing this byte and time saving procedure for the HP49? Why is fast and efficient SysRPL-programming on the 49 still less elegant than it was with JAZZ? - Wolfgang On a 49G with ROM 1.19-6, the limit: lim( 1 / ( SQRT( x^2 + 2*x ) + x ) ) -oo yields -:0 The same limit when approaching +oo returns +:0 Now I'm not entirely sure if I interpret the -: correctly, but I think the first result is incorrect, it should be -1. (*) One other thing I noticed when using limits: copying a limit in EQW garbles the screen. When doing this with the above expression (when shown with the beautified lim) I get something like: (oo 1 / ( SQRT( x^2 + 2*x ) + x ) ) (written in TextBook layout). Not that I really care about it, just an observation. I actually rarely use the EQW, since I've got this incredible machine I've become a real RPN addictive. Now why didn't the Arabs invent RPN instead of algebra... Walter. (*) tried to do a Google search for -: or +:, but that doesn't seem to work, it simply returns all messages...