B44 ==== I already posted this once, but I didn't get an answer. The program works fine except that the maximum speed is 5.6 revolution to second(that mean ~44Km/h). I would appreciate it if someone could help me to achieve 60Km/s ~7.7Hz. 0 STIME TICKS DO DO 1 SRECV DROP2 TICKS DUP ROT - B->R 64290.816 SWAP / SWAP + Km/h. + 3 DISP 'j' INCR DROP UNTIL KEY END UNTIL 13 == END Tal ==== How about adding the and Km/h from a local variable and also the 64290.816, say b, k and r Is it faster then? Km/h 64290.816 -> b k r << 0 STIME TICKS DO DO 1 SRECV DROP2 TICKS DUP ROT - B->R b r ROT / + k + 3 DISP 'j' INCR DROP UNTIL KEY END UNTIL 13 == END >> Also since you have 'j INCR DROP can you transform it into a FOR 'j' ... NEXT -loop where KEY would exit by STOring MAXR to 'j' IF KEY 13 == THEN MAXR 'j' STO END So it becomes: Km/h 64290.816 -> b k r << 0 STIME TICKS 1 1E12 FOR j 1 SRECV DROP2 TICKS DUP ROT - B->R b r ROT / + k + 3 DISP IF KEY 13 == THEN MAXR 'j' STO END NEXT >> One more: Is 'j' Integer, real, or binary? real is faster than integer. I would change everything to reals: Km/h 64290.816 -> b k r << 0. STIME TICKS 1. 1.E12 FOR j 1. SRECV DROP2 TICKS DUP ROT - B->R b r ROT / + k + 3. DISP IF KEY 13. == THEN MAXR 'j' STO END NEXT >> AND I have even more ideas after you have tested the combinations of these. Veli-Pekka > > I already posted this once, but I didn't get an answer. > > > The program works fine except that the maximum > speed is 5.6 revolution to second(that mean ~44Km/h). > > I would appreciate it if someone could help me to achieve > 60Km/s ~7.7Hz. > > 0 STIME > TICKS > DO > DO > 1 SRECV > DROP2 > TICKS DUP ROT - B->R 64290.816 SWAP / > SWAP + Km/h. + > 3 DISP > 'j' INCR DROP > UNTIL > KEY > END > UNTIL > 13 == > END > > Tal ==== > How about adding the and Km/h from a local > variable and also the 64290.816, say b, k and r > Is it faster then? X > Also since you have 'j INCR DROP > can you transform it into a FOR 'j' ... NEXT -loop > where KEY would exit by STOring MAXR to 'j' > IF KEY 13 == THEN MAXR 'j' STO END X > One more: Is 'j' Integer, real, or binary? > real is faster than integer. X > AND I have even more ideas after you have tested > the combinations of these. ()/&##@£$? There are always several severe errors in my fast replies. We try another time with a SREPL stub for testing: << Km/h 64290.816 MAXR ->NUM -> b k r m << 2. FIX @ or anything else you like 0. STIME MEM DROP @ forced GC TICKS 1. 1.E12 FOR j 1. SRECV @ remove the quotas for real work DROP2 TICKS DUP ROT - B->R b r ROT / + k + 3. DISP IF KEY THEN IF 13. == THEN m 'j' STO END END NEXT >> >> BYTES => # B85Ch 222.00 Veli-Pekka ==== > I would appreciate it if someone could help me to achieve > 60Km/s ~7.7Hz. Try EPO :-) -- ir. P.F.Geelhoed Delft University of Technology Laboratory for Aero & Hydrodynamics Leeghwaterstraat 21, 2628 CA Delft, The Netherlands +31-15-2786656 / +31-15-2782947 (fax) peter@dutw1479.wbmt.tudelft.nl ==== Hp48gx - error Invalid Card Data I have this error when I use a Math-card in port1. When I use the same card in port2, there is no error. Any suggestion what is wrong?? ----Raffa---- ==== > Hp48gx - error > > Invalid Card Data > I have this error when I use a Math-card in port1. > When I use the same card in port2, there is no error. > > Any suggestion what is wrong?? Is this card a bigger-than-128k card? If yes, then you *must* use it in port 2. -- ----- Computers can never replace human stupidity. ==== > > > Hp48gx - error > > > > Invalid Card Data > > I have this error when I use a Math-card in port1. > > When I use the same card in port2, there is no error. > > > > Any suggestion what is wrong?? > > Is this card a bigger-than-128k card? If yes, then you *must* use it in > port 2. > > -- > ----- > Computers can never replace human stupidity. No, the card is not bigger than 128 card. ----Raffa---- ==== Perhaps you should use PortINIT command PINIT and for clarity: not physically bigger, but more RAM than only 128KB... > > > > > > > > Hp48gx - error > > > > > > Invalid Card Data > > > I have this error when I use a Math-card in port1. > > > When I use the same card in port2, there is no error. > > > > > > Any suggestion what is wrong?? > > > > Is this card a bigger-than-128k card? If yes, then you *must* use it in > > port 2. > > > > -- > > ----- > > Computers can never replace human stupidity. > > No, the card is not bigger than 128 card. > ----Raffa---- > > > > ==== > Perhaps you should use PortINIT command PINIT > and for clarity: not physically bigger, > but more RAM than only 128KB... > > > No, the card is not bigger than 128 card. > > ----Raffa---- How to use PINIT & check RAM > 128K on my card ? ----Raffa---- ==== > How to use PINIT & check RAM > 128K on my card ? > 1) LS2 NXT PINIT 2) With the card in slot 2 (where it's working ok, isn't it?) press LS2 and then PORT. If you see only ports 0 and 2, the card is 128Kb. Each new port you see, add 128Kb more. ==== > > 1) LS2 NXT PINIT > > 2) With the card in slot 2 (where it's working ok, isn't it?) press LS2 and > then PORT. If you see only ports 0 and 2, the card is 128Kb. Each new port > you see, add 128Kb more. > 1) Have tried this, but dident work. Still no card in port 1. Only in port 2. 2) I have put my card in port 2, and I see only port 0 and 2. So my card is 128K Why cant I use this in port 1. 3) My manual for the cards says that I can use both ports for the cards and that I can use both cards at the same time. ----Raffa---- ==== > My manual for the cards says that I can use both ports for > the cards and that I can use both cards at the same time. This looks like new info -- that you have *two* cards; could it be that it is your *other* card that is causing the Invalid Card Data? Slide any write protect switches toward the center (if standard Epson cards with sliding shutters), to enable writing, then plug in and type PINIT. Do not plug > 128K into slot 1. Do not use any manual bank select card in slot 2. Replace any old card battery (read manual carefully first!) Also replace any old calc batteries, and watch out for GRiD brand card, if any (what brand is each card, anyway?) Good luck! . ==== > 1) Have tried this, but dident work. > Still no card in port 1. Only in port 2. > > 2) I have put my card in port 2, and I see only port 0 and 2. > So my card is 128K > Why cant I use this in port 1. > > 3) My manual for the cards says that I can use both ports for > the cards and that I can use both cards at the same time. Could it be possible that this card is designed to work only on an HP48SX? If it's a non-HP card, it may be possible. -- ----- TK> A la rentr.8ee proposer un seul forum jeux vid.8eo mod.8er.8e Si c'est le cas je sollicite un droit de regard sur le travail des mod.8erateurs, avec d'autres joueurs volontaires. -+- Spip in Guide du Neuneu Usenet - Mod.8erons les mod.8erateurs -- ==== > > 1) Have tried this, but dident work. > Still no card in port 1. Only in port 2. When executing PINIT, you see nothing... If the card doesn't work, sorry: > 2) I have put my card in port 2, and I see only port 0 and 2. > So my card is 128K > Why cant I use this in port 1. Can you install a different card in slot1 for being sure this slot is ok? > 3) My manual for the cards says that I can use both ports for > the cards and that I can use both cards at the same time. I'm afraid that can't hepl more... ==== I just got my first HP, an HP49G. I've some questions: 1. How can I see the Demo? I run it once an can not find it again. 2. How can I find my ROM version? 3. Where can I find a good manual? thanks, ==== > I just got my first HP, an HP49G. > I've some questions: > 1. How can I see the Demo? I run it once an can not find it again. Use Filer to search it in your port 2 = The Flash Memory > 2. How can I find my ROM version? VERSION > 3. Where can I find a good manual? http://www.engineering.usu.edu/cee/faculty/gurro/myBooks.htm > > thanks, You're welcome! ==== Good morning everyone. Sorry for this off topic post, but I'm not certain where else to post this. I have an HP48-GX, barely used, along with several programming manuals and the HP interconnect cable to connect to a serial port. I have no real need for this, and would like to sell it to someone that might appreciate and use it. (I used to live off an HP-41cv, and when it broke, and the upgrade price to a 48 was cheaper than the repair...) It looks as if street price is around 130-150? Cheaper? Anyone want to make me an offer? Dave ==== > > For comparison, in Mathematica (running on a 500MHz Windows2000 machine): > > > > In[1]:= mat = N[Table[Random[Integer,{-9,9}], {i,16}, {j,16}]]; > > > > In[2]:= Timing[Inverse[mat]][[1]] > > > > Out[2]= 0. Second > > > > In[3]:= mat = N[Table[Random[Integer,{-9,9}], {i,64}, {j,64}]]; > > > > In[4]:= Timing[Inverse[mat]][[1]] > > > > Out[4]= 0. Second > > > > In[5]:= mat = N[Table[Random[Integer,{-9,9}], {i,256}, {j,256}]]; > > > > In[6]:= Timing[Inverse[mat]][[1]] > > > > Out[6]= 0.181 Second > > > > In[7]:= mat = N[Table[Random[Integer,{-9,9}], {i,1000}, {j,1000}]]; > > > > In[8]:= Timing[Inverse[mat]][[1]] > > > > Out[8]= 6.89 Second > > Do you know what kind of algorithm is used? These timings > are very good. I would guess modular algorithms... Doesn't seem like it... LUDecomposition, Inverse, RowReduce and Det use Gaussian elimination with partial pivoting. Of course, it also depends on the internal arithmetic implementation to some extent. -- Bhuvanesh ==== >>Do you know what kind of algorithm is used? These timings >>are very good. I would guess modular algorithms... > > > Doesn't seem like it... > > LUDecomposition, Inverse, RowReduce and Det use Gaussian elimination > with partial pivoting. > > Of course, it also depends on the internal arithmetic implementation > to some extent. Gauss is O(N^3) assuming you have constant size coefficients which is not the case here. Even if you assume that the best algorithms are used for arithmetic, the size of a multiplication of p bits time p bits is O(p ln(p)) using FFT and here the size of the coeff increase linearly (p=cst*N), we should expect O(N^4*ln(N)) timings, you give timings 6.9 s for N=1000 and 0.181s for N=256 which correspond to less than O(N^3). Therefore there must be some other algorithm involved (but which?) or there is a misunderstanding on the initial problem which was to compute all coeffs of the exact inverse of a matrix with random integer coefficients in a range (-9..9 on calcs, I used -99.99 on xcas) (note that I don't understand mathematica weierd notation) ==== > Gauss is O(N^3) assuming you have constant size coefficients which > is not the case here. Even if you assume that the best algorithms > are used for arithmetic, the size of a multiplication of p bits time > p bits is O(p ln(p)) using FFT and here the size of the coeff increase > linearly (p=cst*N), we should expect O(N^4*ln(N)) timings, you give > timings 6.9 s for N=1000 and 0.181s for N=256 which correspond > to less than O(N^3). Therefore there must be some other algorithm > involved (but which?) This is just what I got from the implementation notes section of the help browser: http://documents.wolfram.com/v4/index253.html > or there is a misunderstanding on the > initial problem which was to compute all coeffs of the exact inverse > of a matrix with random integer coefficients in a range > (-9..9 on calcs, I used -99.99 on xcas) > (note that I don't understand mathematica weierd notation) I used approximate random integer coefficients in the range -9...9. That's what mat = N[Table[Random[Integer,{-9,9}], {i,n}, {j,n}]]; computes. I used Timing[Inverse[mat]][[1]] since I was only interested in the timing, not the actual result. -- Bhuvanesh ==== > > I used approximate random integer coefficients in the range -9...9. > That's what > mat = N[Table[Random[Integer,{-9,9}], {i,n}, {j,n}]]; > computes. I used Timing[Inverse[mat]][[1]] since I was only interested > in the timing, not the actual result. Then I understand much better mma timings. We all used exact random integers which is much slower, I guess you can not get the inverse of a 1000x1000 matrix with exact coeffs. ==== I'm trying to do trig substition in integration and am trying to work the example on page 35 of Urroz's volume 2. Where you have the integral x/sqroot(1-x^2) Lower limit 0 Upper limit2 I follow the directions exactly and yet don't get the same answer? The directions are: Type the integral onto the stack, put u=1-x^2 onto the stack then put u onto the stack click on Alg then solve and it is supposed to give you {x=-sqroot(-(u-1)) x=sqroot(-(u-1))} I get u=-(x^2-1)?? What is wrong? ce ==== c_elber schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I'm trying to do trig substition in integration and am trying to work the > example on page 35 of Urroz's volume 2. Unfortunately I don't have the book. Couldn't find it in any bookstore yet;-(. > Where you have the integral x/sqroot(1-x^2) Lower limit 0 Upper limit2 > > I follow the directions exactly and yet don't get the same answer? The > directions are: > Type the integral onto the stack, put u=1-x^2 onto the stack then put u onto > the stack click on Alg then solve and it is supposed to give you > {x=-sqroot(-(u-1)) x=sqroot(-(u-1))} I get u=-(x^2-1)?? What is wrong? Are you sure you doing the example right? If you put u=1-x^2 on the stack and solve for u you will get of course u=-(x^2-1). If you want to do the integral (with the limits) on your calc do the following: 1) put the lower limit on the stack 2) put the upper limit on the stack 3) put the integral on the stack 4) put the integral variable on the stack 5) use the integrate sign to do the integral 0 2 'x/sqrt(1-x^2)' 'x' [R-SHIFT]-[TAN] The calc will ask you to change to complex mode btw. you should get 1-i*sqrt(3) If you want to do the integral symbolicaly: 1) put the integral on the stack 2) put the integral variable on the stack (if x is the int. var. you don't have to do this) 3) use 'risch' so get the solution (or INTVX if x is the int. var.) 'x/sqrt(1-x^2)' 'x' RISCH or 'x/sqrt(1-x^2)' INTVX and you should get -sqrt(-(x^2-1)) Again, I don't have the book from Urroz. And I didn't found an errata list on Urroz Website. So chances are big I'm missing here something completely. But at least you should now be able to integrate properly. BTW for some of the task above the equationwriter EQW is the proper tool to use. Roman > ce > > ==== I know how to integrate and use Risch for symbolic integration. I was trying to use trig substitution to solve it step by step. Unfortunately the Urroz book that shows how to do this appears to be wrong. On page 35 of volume 2 he says Suppose that you want to calculate the integral x/sqroot(1-x^2) lower limit 0, upper limit 2 Let's type the integral in the equation writer (then he gives that key sequence). We suggest using the change of variable u=1-X^2. We need find out how to replace x in terms of u, so enter the expression 'u=1-x^2' in the stack (key sequence again). and isolate x by using right shift ' alpha left shift u right shift alg solve The result is the list {'x=-sqroot(-(u-1))' 'x=sqroot-(u-1)'} Press right shift eval right arrow del to keep only the result. Next, press right shift alg subst to replace the latter result in the integral but I can't get to the correct list. The Urroz books are only sold online and at some very specialized stores to the best of my knowledge. To get them you have to order them through Booksurge.com or greatunpublished.com. I highly recommend booksurge they were GREAT! Carmen ==== c_elber schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I know how to integrate and use Risch for symbolic integration. I was trying > to use trig substitution to solve it step by step. Unfortunately the Urroz > book that shows how to do this appears to be wrong. > > On page 35 of volume 2 he says > Suppose that you want to calculate the integral > x/sqroot(1-x^2) lower limit 0, upper limit 2 > > Let's type the integral in the equation writer (then he gives that key > sequence). > > We suggest using the change of variable u=1-X^2. We need find out how to > replace x in terms of u, so enter the expression 'u=1-x^2' in the stack (key > sequence again). > > and isolate x by using right shift ' alpha left shift u right shift alg > solve OK. You want to solve for x in the expression 'u=1-x^2'. Right? Well my HP49G (with the rom version 1.19-6) seems to fail in doing so. The result should obviously be { 'x=sqrt(1-u)', 'x=-sqrt(1-u)'}. You can confirm this by doing by hand. I think this is a bug in the CAS. One that wasn't there in earlier rom versions probably. BTW what rom version are you using? Roman > The result is the list > {'x=-sqroot(-(u-1))' 'x=sqroot-(u-1)'} > > Press right shift eval right arrow del to keep only the result. Next, press > right shift alg subst to replace the latter result in the integral but I > can't get to the correct list. > > The Urroz books are only sold online and at some very specialized stores to > the best of my knowledge. To get them you have to order them through > Booksurge.com or greatunpublished.com. I highly recommend booksurge they > were GREAT! > Carmen > > ==== > OK. You want to solve for x in the expression 'u=1-x^2'. Right? > > Well my HP49G (with the rom version 1.19-6) seems to fail in doing so. > The result should obviously be { 'x=sqrt(1-u)', 'x=-sqrt(1-u)'}. You can > confirm this by doing by hand. > > I think this is a bug in the CAS. One that wasn't there in earlier rom > versions probably. > BTW what rom version are you using? > > Roman > Roman; I am using 1.19-6. Carmen ==== i was working with matrices, to solve linear system, and everything was o.k. , but then somehow the 49g started to bring strange results why? i had to reseet the system without Memory recovery now it is back to it selft,... why is this happening? im using rom 19-6!.... ==== Does anyone have a manual for the HP71 41 translator that they would sell, either the original or a photocopy? Can anyone post how to use the module to make the HP71 function as an HP41 calculator? Martin Eisenstein martin@eisenstein.com ==== > Does anyone have a manual for the HP71 41 translator that they would > sell, either the original or a photocopy? manual. When you get it, you can reimburse me for the postage (the photocopy is free). -Joe- Joseph K. Horn joehorn@jps.net ==== in a post above someone (c_e) was trying to solve an example of G. Urroz Book. example: 'u=1-X^2' SOLVEX (The example is a bit different btw, but the problem lies here) Answer should be {'X=sqrt(1-u)','X=-sqrt(1-u)'} But HP49G gives { } Looks like a bug to me. The 49 should be able to solve this symbolicaly. Doesn't it? Can someone else confirm this behaviour and try it with some other (older) rom version. BTW my rom version is 1.19-6. Roman ==== Try to be complex mode on... > in a post above someone (c_e) was trying to solve an example of G. Urroz > Book. > > example: > 'u=1-X^2' > SOLVEX > > (The example is a bit different btw, but the problem lies here) > > Answer should be {'X=sqrt(1-u)','X=-sqrt(1-u)'} > But HP49G gives { } > > Looks like a bug to me. The 49 should be able to solve this symbolicaly. > Doesn't it? > Can someone else confirm this behaviour and try it with some other (older) > rom version. > > BTW my rom version is 1.19-6. > > Roman ==== Just tried it with rom 1.18 and 1.19-5 in the emulator. 1.19-5 doesnt solve the expr., gives the same wrong result as 1.19-6: { } 1.18 gives: {' X=sqrt(-(u-1))', 'X=-sqrt(-(u-1))'} Arrgh. 1.18 gives the right answer while 1.19-6 doesn't. So it's probably really a bug in the CAS. What about a new rom 1.19-7 (or even 1.2) to christmas? Roman ==== Roman Hartmann escribi.97 en el mensaje > Just tried it with rom 1.18 and 1.19-5 in the emulator. > > 1.19-5 doesnt solve the expr., gives the same wrong result as 1.19-6: { } > 1.18 gives: {' X=sqrt(-(u-1))', 'X=-sqrt(-(u-1))'} Erable 3.2 also gives { }, but in complex mode it gives the solutions. Have you tried this way? ==== ...and, as X appears only once in the equation, then you can use the old ISOL for isolating it. ==== Is AUR available for free download somewhere? (Like 49G's one, for example?) I haven't succeded to find it on hpcalc.org.. :( -- Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. ==== Here's an interesting problem I had last night: The formula for the input impedance of a transmission line is: Zin(l)=Zo*(Zl+i*Zo*tan(b*l))/(Zo+i*Zl*tan(b*l)) where l is the line length, Zo is the characteristic impedance (real), Zl is the load impedance (complex), and b is a real constant. I defined this as a function, actually, with b*l as the argument of the function, so it is zin(bl). With Zo=50 and Zl=200-i100, nSolve(imag(zin(2pi*x))=0,x)|x>0 and x<.25 fails to give a correct result. Solve also fails, yielding true. But when I do it in two pieces: imag(zin(2pi*x)) then nSolve(ans(1)=0, x)|x>0 and x<.25 yields the correct value of 0.23349... The function can be re-written in terms of complex exponentials, to avoid the singularities when bl=pi/2 and so on, but the TI still can't solve it unless I first evaluate the imaginary component and pass it to Solve. Comments appreciated. Good day! -- ____________________________________ Christopher R. Carlen Principal Laser/Optical Technologist Sandia National Laboratories CA USA crcarle@sandia.gov ==== > Zin(l)=Zo*(Zl+i*Zo*tan(b*l))/(Zo+i*Zl*tan(b*l)) [...] > I defined this as a function, actually, with b*l as the argument of the > function, so it is zin(bl). So we have 'Zin(bl)=Zo*(Zl+i*Zo*tan(bl))/(Zo+i*Zl*tan(bl))', where i is the complex number 'SQRT(-1)'. > With Zo=50 and Zl=200-i100, > nSolve(imag(zin(2pi*x))=0,x)|x>0 and x<.25 > fails to give a correct result. Yes, it yields 1.E-38. > The function can be re-written in terms of complex exponentials, to > avoid the singularities when bl=pi/2 and so on, but the TI still can't > solve it unless I first evaluate the imaginary component and pass it to > Solve. Well, since the HP49G finds 100 exact solutions between 0 and 25 in radians mode, I assume you mean this to be solved in degrees mode. The HP49G can solve this equation symbolically - interesting enough the TI89 can't solve this exact, but only find some numeric solutions. This is one of the first times I've seen the HP solver beat the TI counterpart - interesting. To return to your question, this type of problem is solved like this in RPN mode: 'Zin(bl)=Zo*(Zl+i*Zo*tan(bl))/(Zo+i*Zl*tan(bl))' DEFINE (or DEF, if You prefer) 50 'Zo' STO '200-i*100' 'Zl' STO 'X>0' ASSUME DROP 'X<25*pi/180' (to be able to solve the equation in RAD mode, which is the only mode the HP49G can use SOLVE in) ASSUME DROP '2*pi*X' Zin IM 'X' SOLVE -> 'X=ATAN((19+SQRT(377))/4)/(2*pi)' (numeric mode) EVAL -> 'X=0.233487974945' If you, on the other hand, would like to solve it with one algebraic expression, you can enter this: Preparation, as on the TI89: 'Zin(bl)=Zo*(Zl+i*Zo*tan(bl))/(Zo+i*Zl*tan(bl))' DEFINE (or DEF, if You prefer) 50 'Zo' STO '200-i*100' 'Zl' STO { X>0' 'X<25*pi/180'} ASSUME ÇSOLVE(IM(Zin(2*pi*X)),X)Ç -> 'X=ATAN((19+SQRT(377))/4)/(2*pi)' ==== >>Zin(l)=Zo*(Zl+i*Zo*tan(b*l))/(Zo+i*Zl*tan(b*l)) > > [...] > >>I defined this as a function, actually, with b*l as the argument of the >>function, so it is zin(bl). > > > So we have 'Zin(bl)=Zo*(Zl+i*Zo*tan(bl))/(Zo+i*Zl*tan(bl))', where i is the > complex number 'SQRT(-1)'. > > >>With Zo=50 and Zl=200-i100, >>nSolve(imag(zin(2pi*x))=0,x)|x>0 and x<.25 >>fails to give a correct result. Note, x < 0.25, not 25. -- ____________________________________ Christopher R. Carlen Principal Laser/Optical Technologist Sandia National Laboratories CA USA crcarle@sandia.gov ==== > Note, x < 0.25, not 25. Yes, sorry. Same procedure as before - the HP49G solves it fine. ==== I get the message Invalid Card Data after I reset my HP49G. I just got it when I updated to ROM 1.19-6b. Do I have to worry here? Anders ==== PINIT > > I get the message Invalid Card Data after I reset my HP49G. I just got > it when I updated to ROM 1.19-6b. > Do I have to worry here? > > Anders > ==== Hallo. I'd like to know of there's a possibility to transmit Datas from a Hp49G to a PC. If it's possible which PC-programm can I use? Greetings, Ingo ==== >Hallo. I'd like to know of there's a possibility to transmit Datas from a >Hp49G to a PC. If it's possible which PC-programm can I use? Isn't there a tool on the HP web site? A bientot Paul -- Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth) What happens if you have lead in your pants as well as lead in your pencil? ==== I'm sure It's possible to see my function as a graph but I don't know how? Anyone with a hint? greetings, ingo ==== I'm running the MetaKernal 2.30 on a 48GX and wanted to know if System Font7 exists for the 48GX. It is on my 49G and I wanted to get that font for my Doug ==== You can do the following on your HP49 (or in Emu48): FONT7 ->S2, then copy this file to your HP48 with MK installed and put it on stack, doing ASM, it will return FONT7 from HP49... Paulo Pinheiro P.S. I think this works too with FONT7 ->H in HP49 and then with this object in HP48 do H-> but didn't try it, the upper way is good. > I'm running the MetaKernal 2.30 on a 48GX and wanted to know if System Font7 > exists for the 48GX. It is on my 49G and I wanted to get that font for my > > Doug ==== Douglas Rohm escribi.97 en el mensaje > I'm running the MetaKernal 2.30 on a 48GX and wanted to know if System Font7 > exists for the 48GX. It is on my 49G and I wanted to get that font for my > > Doug This size is the one I ever use (almost). In the MK menu, you can see a hole between FONT8 and FONT6 because there is no room for it in the 128kb cards. But you can get fonts of several sizes in hpcalc and install them in memory. (The FONT7 is set for my STARTUP program) ==== you could also try RayFnt7, which I created for the 49G because the built-in system font 7 is hardly readable. On www.hpcalc.org, of course;-) Raymond R Lion schrieb im Newsbeitrag > > Douglas Rohm escribi.97 en el mensaje > > I'm running the MetaKernal 2.30 on a 48GX and wanted to know if System > Font7 > > exists for the 48GX. It is on my 49G and I wanted to get that font for my > > > > Doug > > This size is the one I ever use (almost). > In the MK menu, you can see a hole between FONT8 and FONT6 because there > is no room for it in the 128kb cards. But you can get fonts of several sizes > in hpcalc and install them in memory. (The FONT7 is set for my STARTUP > program) > > > ==== Raymond Hellstern escribi.97 en el mensaje > > you could also try RayFnt7, I edited most of the characters because that, but be sure I'll give a chance to your font ;-) ==== I just tried to remove the hp49g demo from my calculator, by following the instructions from hpcalc.org, but I can't remove it! I do as follows: 1) Type :2:1234 2) hit ENTER 3) type DETACH 4) hit ENTER 5) Type PURGE and then I get 2 few arguments, cause when I git enter after writing DETACH there's nothing on the stach. But if I go into port :2, then I still see 1234. How can I remove it completly? Anders ==== I use the Filer to remove any unwanted libs > > I just tried to remove the hp49g demo from my calculator, by following > the instructions from hpcalc.org, but I can't remove it! I do as follows: > > 1) > Type > :2:1234 > 2) > hit > ENTER > 3) > type > DETACH > 4) > hit > ENTER > 5) > Type > PURGE > > and then I get 2 few arguments, cause when I git enter after writing > DETACH there's nothing on the stach. But if I go into port :2, then I > still see 1234. > > How can I remove it completly? > > Anders > ==== Ever thought about what argument PURGE would need? Raymond Anders Misfeldt schrieb im Newsbeitrag > > I just tried to remove the hp49g demo from my calculator, by following > the instructions from hpcalc.org, but I can't remove it! I do as follows: > > 1) > Type > :2:1234 > 2) > hit > ENTER > 3) > type > DETACH > 4) > hit > ENTER > 5) > Type > PURGE > > and then I get 2 few arguments, cause when I git enter after writing > DETACH there's nothing on the stach. But if I go into port :2, then I > still see 1234. > > How can I remove it completly? > > Anders > ==== Well, I don't really need a picture ;-) > I don't suppose anyone has any pictures of one do they? ==== Salut, CdB Loan a digital camera from your company take the picture and publish it on your web-site where we can admire it's beauty. > Well, I don't really need a picture ;-) > > > > I don't suppose anyone has any pictures of one do they? > > ==== Remember, beauty is more than skin deep! Steve > Salut, CdB > Loan a digital camera from your company > take the picture and publish it on your web-site > where we can admire it's beauty. > > Well, I don't really need a picture ;-) > > > > > > > I don't suppose anyone has any pictures of one do they? > > > > ==== Here is: (AUR 48G series) http://www.hp.com/cposupport/manindex/hp48gcalcu20676_sp_man.html -Dante. ==== > Here is: (AUR 48G series) > http://www.hp.com/cposupport/manindex/hp48gcalcu20676_sp_man.html Hm. It seems that there is no AUR there -- only UR and QuickStart. And only in Spanish and Portugese.. -- Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. ==== I used to have an address for Joe Horn's list of cables but either I've recorded it incorrectly or it has changed. Can someone give me the correct address? ==== simply use http://www.holyjoe.org/cable.htm ;-) Raymond Colin Croft schrieb im Newsbeitrag > > I used to have an address for Joe Horn's list of cables but either I've > recorded it incorrectly or it has changed. Can someone give me the > correct address? > ==== > > simply use http://www.holyjoe.org/cable.htm ;-) > > Raymond > > Colin Croft schrieb im Newsbeitrag > >> >>I used to have an address for Joe Horn's list of cables but either I've >>recorded it incorrectly or it has changed. Can someone give me the >>correct address? >> >> > > ==== > > simply use http://www.holyjoe.org/cable.htm ;-) You are actually correct: it *should* be holyjoe.net, but I lost control of that domain when my hosting company (who resgistered it for me) went out of business. I'm currently trying to wrestle control of it back from GoDaddy.com who has it on their WHOIS list as registered to ME with MY complete address... but I'm having trouble convincing them that I am me. (I am I?) (Don Quixote?) Meanwhile, please use the HolyJoe.ORG alternative, which works just fine. In case you haven't seen it, PLEASE check out the Crummy Rubber Keys page at http://holyjoe.org/HP49.htm#crummy But I digress. -Joe- joehorn@jps.net ==== My 49G keys are perfect after three years of abusive use. Or should we say two years and one years because of the usage patterns PS: Painted afterwards indeed. My 5MHz 49G has a red [ON] blue [RS] green [LS] and a gray [ALPHA] When I get my hands on a digicamera, I'll send a picture to you to be put to your web-page. > > > simply use http://www.holyjoe.org/cable.htm ;-) > > > You are actually correct: it *should* be holyjoe.net, but > I lost control of that domain when my hosting company (who > resgistered it for me) went out of business. I'm currently > trying to wrestle control of it back from GoDaddy.com who > has it on their WHOIS list as registered to ME with MY > complete address... but I'm having trouble convincing them > that I am me. (I am I?) (Don Quixote?) > > Meanwhile, please use the HolyJoe.ORG alternative, which > works just fine. > > In case you haven't seen it, PLEASE check out the Crummy > Rubber Keys page at http://holyjoe.org/HP49.htm#crummy > But I digress. > > -Joe- > joehorn@jps.net ==== Cann't seem to get limit and derivative to work. I've tried doing the equations in the advanced users guide DERIV(2*X^2*Y+3*Y^2*Z+Z*X, [X,Y,Z]), even tried some from the users guide but none work. I get Invalid Syntax. - Jamie ==== try DERIV(2*X^2*Y+3*Y^2*Z+Z*X, {X,Y,Z} ) { } instead of [ ] Greetings Bernd Jamie Bohr schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Cann't seem to get limit and derivative to work. I've tried doing the > equations in the advanced users guide DERIV(2*X^2*Y+3*Y^2*Z+Z*X, [X,Y,Z]), > even tried some from the users guide but none work. I get Invalid Syntax. > > > - Jamie > > ==== But they both work for me when I use the RPN-stack ??? > > try > DERIV(2*X^2*Y+3*Y^2*Z+Z*X, {X,Y,Z} ) > > { } instead of [ ] > > Greetings > Bernd > > Jamie Bohr schrieb im Newsbeitrag > > Cann't seem to get limit and derivative to work. I've tried doing the > > equations in the advanced users guide DERIV(2*X^2*Y+3*Y^2*Z+Z*X, [X,Y,Z]), > > even tried some from the users guide but none work. I get Invalid > Syntax. > > > > > > - Jamie > > > > > > ==== What for are the 31 and 32 pins in HP48 Card Slot 1? They are connected to the same signals as A17 and A18 of ROM, but Slot 1 can allegedly contain only 128kiB memory. That is, it uses only A0-A16. Best wishes, Robert Tiismus ==== > What for are the #31 and #32 pins in HP48 Card Slot 1? [same in S/G] > They are connected to the same signals as A17 and A18 of ROM, > but Slot 1 can allegedly contain only 128kiB memory. > That is, it uses only A0-A16 Where's Dave Arnett these days? http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=32A62282.1B3A%40cv.hp.com http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=533jt0%24927%40hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3640993D.43C1%40hp.com http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=DLE03L.4Eq%40hpcvra.cv.hp.com Dave is also quoted some more below (tangentially relevant to your Q) http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3C0EE5BE.25C17264%40miu.edu -[]- . ==== John H Meyers :: > > >>What for are the #31 and #32 pins in HP48 Card Slot 1? [same in S/G] >>They are connected to the same signals as A17 and A18 of ROM, >>but Slot 1 can allegedly contain only 128kiB memory. >>That is, it uses only A0-A16 > > > Where's Dave Arnett these days? > > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=32A62282.1B3A%40cv.hp.com > > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=533jt0%24927%40hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com > > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3640993D.43C1%40hp.com > > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=DLE03L.4Eq%40hpcvra.cv.hp.com > > Dave is also quoted some more below (tangentially relevant to your Q) > > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3C0EE5BE.25C17264%40miu.edu > more. It's content is not as interesting as couple of years ago :( To be honest, I found almost the same information from google and hpcalc.org as you. But the question remains: what for are the contacts #31 and #32 on the card slot 1 of HP48G? I think that they are not used to drive overhead LCD and it is clear that HP48 OS does not allow to use them for RAM addressing. They are connected to YORKE, but are just useless? Robert Tiismus ==== > To be honest, I found almost the same information from google and > hpcalc.org as you. But the question remains: what for are the contacts > #31 and #32 on the card slot 1 of HP48G? I think that they are not used > to drive overhead LCD and it is clear that HP48 OS does not allow to use > them for RAM addressing. They are connected to YORKE, but are just useless? Those pins are the yorke A17 and NA18, the same that go to the similarly(sp?) named pins on the internal Ram. They are NOT the same as in port 2. There was once a post that said something about how those pins could be used, i think it was something like replacing the internal rom, with some special card. There is a lot more info on the hp hardware, search hpcalc for hardware, browse the misc folder, and while you're there get the schematic... Steve ==== >Those pins are the yorke A17 and NA18, the same that go to the >similarly(sp?) named pins on the internal Ram. They are NOT the same >as in port 2. There was once a post that said something about how >those pins could be used, i think it was something like replacing the >internal rom, with some special card. Could it be this one? : http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=53gpp4%24i7l%40hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com ...Another interesting post by Dave Arnett : http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=529qv8%24f03%40hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com Also, I think this 2 year old post by you hits the nail on the head ;) : http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8jefsl%2494%241%40duke.telepac.pt ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== > Also, I think this 2 year old post by you hits the nail on the head ;) > : > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8jefsl%2494%241%40duke.telepac.pt I used to know about this stuff huh? ;-) I just searched and guess what? the closest post to what i was talking about is by you: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8jbgut8aafna0qprdhnh5jqtkg59aic5mb%404a x.com I still think that there was some card could use those lines, and take over the rom, or at least part of it, however i couldn't find it. Where's master Dave when we need him? What about Cyrille? He might know if there was provision for such a card... Greetings Steve Sousa ==== This is just a guess, but if I remember right there are a couple of slot 1 pins that are wired for the 38g (?). Presumably, the same or a slightly modified PCB was used for the 38 (?) and 48. Robert ==== I get Error: Undefined Name when doing a dervx(x^2). The emumlator on my PC returns the right value but the calculator does not. I need this to work. It also looks bad when a TI89 can do it and a HP49G can not. - Jamie ==== Looks like you hit the nail on the head, it something to do with CAS. I think clearing flag 99 and 100 did it. I had to do a flag by flag comparison to the 49G on my PC. Jamie -----Original Message----- What mode is your HP49 in? What ROM version are you running? What is the variable stored in 'VX'. Better yet, what are you flag settings. All of these things must be considered before you can say it isn't working. Many of the CAS commands don't work the way they should in ALG mode. Get OUT of ALG mode into RPN mode. Then try the same examples only using RPN. best wishes, J.C. Randerson ==== I was flags 3 and 105 that seem to be causing the problem. Some how flog 105 gets set to approx. instead of exact. Jamie > > Looks like you hit the nail on the head, it something to do with CAS. I > think clearing flag 99 and 100 did it. I had to do a flag by flag comparison > to the 49G on my PC. > > Jamie > > -----Original Message----- > > What mode is your HP49 in? What ROM version are you running? What is the > variable stored in 'VX'. Better yet, what are you flag settings. All of > these things must be considered before you can say it isn't working. > Many of the CAS commands don't work the way they should in ALG mode. Get OUT > of ALG mode into RPN mode. Then try the same examples only using RPN. > best wishes, > J.C. Randerson > > ==== > I get Error: Undefined Name when doing a dervx(x^2). The emumlator on my > PC returns the right value but the calculator does not. I need this to > work. It also looks bad when a TI89 can do it and a HP49G can not. > > - Jamie > > Your default variable is probably 'X', rather than 'x', so that 'DERVX(x^2)', which takes derivatives with respect to the default variable, does not find an 'X' in your formula to work with. Try 'DERVX(X^2)', using capitals throughout. If that fails try holding ON and pressing the F3 key to reboot before trying again. ==== Jamie Bohr escribi.97 en el mensaje > I get Error: Undefined Name when doing a dervx(x^2). Are you writing it with capital letters, DERVX? ==== Yes, I use the built in function name off the Calc/Deriv & Integ menu. I use the same steps on the PC version of the 49G and get the right answer. I have rebooted the calc. twice and reloaded the bios. So far I am at a loss as to why it does this. Jamie > > Jamie Bohr escribi.97 en el mensaje > > I get Error: Undefined Name when doing a dervx(x^2). > > Are you writing it with capital letters, DERVX? > > > ==== DERVX(X^2) => X*2 ???? What is your problem? VERSION gives: Revision #1.19-6 1: Copyright HP 2001 RCLF gives 1: { # 60A00B8285054550h # 0h # 10305C280580E8h # 0h } Veli-Pekka - shaken & stirred > I get Error: Undefined Name when doing a dervx(x^2). The emumlator on my > PC returns the right value but the calculator does not. I need this to > work. It also looks bad when a TI89 can do it and a HP49G can not. > > - Jamie > > ==== Agreed, however my calculator returns Error: Undefined Name. I wanted to show that it, I, had a problem with even the simplest of derivatives. > DERVX(X^2) => X*2 > ???? > What is your problem? > > VERSION gives: > Revision #1.19-6 > 1: Copyright HP 2001 > > RCLF gives > 1: { # 60A00B8285054550h # 0h > # 10305C280580E8h # 0h } > > Veli-Pekka - shaken & stirred > > > I get Error: Undefined Name when doing a dervx(x^2). The emumlator on > my > > PC returns the right value but the calculator does not. I need this to > > work. It also looks bad when a TI89 can do it and a HP49G can not. > > > > - Jamie > > > > > > ==== What program on the PC do you use to be able to send files back and forth to the 48GX via XMODEM? I'm trying HyperTerminal but am not getting it to work correctly. Doug ==== Douglas Rohm escribi.97 en el mensaje > What program on the PC do you use to be able to send files back and forth to > the 48GX via XMODEM? I'm trying HyperTerminal but am not getting it to work > correctly. I use Emu48 and all works fine between the virtual and the real calculators. ==== I'm running EMU 1.30, how do you send files from the emulator to the real calc? I can't seem to find out how. Doug > > Douglas Rohm escribi.97 en el mensaje > > What program on the PC do you use to be able to send files back and forth > to > > the 48GX via XMODEM? I'm trying HyperTerminal but am not getting it to > work > > correctly. > > > I use Emu48 and all works fine between the virtual and the real calculators. > > > ==== Douglas Rohm escribi.97 en el mensaje > I'm running EMU 1.30, how do you send files from the emulator to the real > calc? I can't seem to find out how. > > Doug This is my STARTSEND program: .82 -40 CF CLLCD SWAP + 2 DISP2 ->T .82 Enviando... 4 DISP2 'T' XSEND CLOSEIO -40 SF é é (Change Enviando for Sending if you prefer) When you want send any object, look for it into the MK Filer and press SEND, in the 2nd page menu: it will be sent with XMODEM Does this help? ==== I entered this program into the STARTSEND variable and it doesn't seem to work. It places some of the items in that program on the stack and doesn't complete. Doug > > Douglas Rohm escribi.97 en el mensaje > > I'm running EMU 1.30, how do you send files from the emulator to the real > > calc? I can't seem to find out how. > > > > Doug > > > This is my STARTSEND program: > > .82 -40 CF CLLCD > SWAP + 2 DISP2 ->T > .82 Enviando... > 4 DISP2 'T' XSEND > CLOSEIO -40 SF > é > é > > (Change Enviando for Sending if you prefer) > > When you want send any object, look for it into the MK Filer and press SEND, > in the 2nd page menu: it will be sent with XMODEM > Does this help? > > > ==== Douglas Rohm escribi.97 en el mensaje > I entered this program into the STARTSEND variable and it doesn't seem to > work. It places some of the items in that program on the stack and doesn't > complete. Be sure in your calculator there is one space between -> and T... Sorry for the transcription mistake. ==== Nevermind, I figured it out :) Doug > I'm running EMU 1.30, how do you send files from the emulator to the real > calc? I can't seem to find out how. > > Doug > > > > > Douglas Rohm escribi.97 en el mensaje > > > What program on the PC do you use to be able to send files back and > forth > > to > > > the 48GX via XMODEM? I'm trying HyperTerminal but am not getting it to > > work > > > correctly. > > > > > > I use Emu48 and all works fine between the virtual and the real > calculators. > > > > > > > > ==== Is it just me or does the into screen to the MetaKernal 2.30 say 2.29? I'm guessing they just didn't update this screen. Someone please correct me here. Doug ==== No, it isn't just you. I think JYA (one of the authors of MK) once said it had something to do with copyrights... (once MK wasn't free, but the authors had some dispute about payments with the company which sold their MKcards) Caspar Douglas Rohm schreef in bericht > Is it just me or does the into screen to the MetaKernal 2.30 say 2.29? > I'm guessing they just didn't update this screen. Someone please correct me > here. > > Doug > > ==== Sorry, I mean Intro Screen, not into screen. > Is it just me or does the into screen to the MetaKernal 2.30 say 2.29? > I'm guessing they just didn't update this screen. Someone please correct me > here. > > Doug > > ==== I would like the following hp48 programs to be ported to the hp49g http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1176 http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1181 http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1969 I would greatly appreciate it if someone would do this for me. I know this is a lot to do, so if anyone is willing, I really just want that first one to be ported. again i would greatly appreciate this. -Tareq Dowla ==== > I would like the following hp48 programs to be ported to the hp49g > http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1176 Power Plot by Aaron Wallace See: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3CC79C16.1717BB97%40utdallas.edu http://leviathan.orblivion.com/hp48/software/ppl49_02.zip [r->] [OFF] . ==== > Don't you think you're off topic?! The primary topic of all education, which is what all sharing of information is for, is to develop the whole of life, both for individuals, at one end of focus of the scale, and of the whole of humanity at the other; if an educator does not keep this in mind, becoming so lost in the details that (s)he forgets to connect them to what we're learning things for, then it's a baseless and useless education that we're dispensing, much as R. Buckminster Fuller has so well pointed out. > to you it's TM - to me it's Jesus Christ Then you must have very little comprehension about at least one of these topics. Students following the instructions for one of these throughout their educational career are scoring in the top 1% of the general public student population; other people following the instructions are spending so much less on medical care that they can get cheaper health insurance for doing it -- and the list goes on and on. Try achieving that with anything that you can get from any church, from any religion, or from anything else available to anyone, anywhere on this planet. One of the things that made present human civilization possible was developing the knowledge of how to culture plants, how to grow vastly more on the same original land. It is equally as significant to know how to get much more out of your own nervous system -- more energy and intelligence, more creativity, finer health, and most of all, feeling finer, under all circumstances. If this isn't *the* topic of greatest importance to civilization, what is? -[]- . ==== [snip] > > If this isn't *the* topic of greatest importance to civilization, > what is? > Embracing the love of God and transferring it to the world -- not contemplating our belly buttons and savoring our egos. Let's get back to the news group at hand. Gregory Warsewicz Savage a.k.a. Greg S ==== X > One of the things that made present human civilization possible > was developing the knowledge of how to culture plants, > how to grow vastly more on the same original land. > > It is equally as significant to know how to get much more > out of your own nervous system -- more energy and intelligence, > more creativity, finer health, and most of all, > feeling finer, under all circumstances. > > If this isn't *the* topic of greatest importance to civilization, > what is? You seem to have good goals and the means to get there don't sound bad, but they still do to me! Why? I don't believe that man himself can build a better world. You have to co-operate with God. To my experience it's pointless to go on with this so why don't we just agree to disagree. BUT if you insist you can clarify your point Veli-Pekka ==== I would like the following hp48 programs to be ported to the hp49g http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1176 http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1181 http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1969 I would greatly appreciate it if someone would do this for me. I know this is a lot to do, so if anyone is willing, I really just want that first one to be ported. again i would greatly appreciate this. -Tareq Dowla ==== > http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1969 > Chemlab 2.7 by Arnold Moy, HP49G version : http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4851 Alain ==== I'm considering buying the HP49g. I have a 39g, but it really isn't powerfull enough for me (I'm an engineering student). I have downloaded the emulator off the net to have a play with. So far the HP seems good, but one thing irks me - the irrating way it forces you to enter expressions. Is there a way to disable this expression editor, so I can enter expressions like on the hp39g? I want to be able to type this: y = 5 x ^ 2 + sin ( 2 x ^ 2 + 6 ) not y = 5 x up-arrow ^ 2 up arrow + sin blah blah blah. I really don't like haveing to repeatedly stab the arrow keys to enter a simple function. I don't know RPN yet (although I'm willing to learn). Can anyone help? Al www.alpage.cjb.net ==== > > I'm considering buying the HP49g. I have a 39g, but it really isn't > powerfull enough for me (I'm an engineering student). I have > downloaded the emulator off the net to have a play with. So far the HP > seems good, but one thing irks me - the irrating way it forces you to > enter expressions. Is there a way to disable this expression editor, > so I can enter expressions like on the hp39g? I want to be able to > type this: > > y = 5 x ^ 2 + sin ( 2 x ^ 2 + 6 ) > > not y = 5 x up-arrow ^ 2 up arrow + sin blah blah blah. > > I really don't like haveing to repeatedly stab the arrow keys to enter > a simple function. I don't know RPN yet (although I'm willing to > learn). > > Can anyone help? > > > Al Simply press the following: ' Y = 5 * X ^ 2 + SIN 2 * X ^ 2 + 6 ENTER where ' requires RIGHTARROW EQW and = requires RIGHTARROW +/- keys to be pressed. ^ is of course Y^X key. Parenthesiss are omitted, because SIN key puts them automatically. Also closing ' is omitted because HP does it for you when you press ENTER. Also, please try to stay with RPN immidietly. Force yourself to use it for several months. Otherwise you will never use HP49 to it's full potential. RPN requires getting used to. The longer you use algebraic mode, the harder will be for you to switch and get used to different intrface and different approach to entering problems into the calculator. Being efficint with using stack advanages and understending how greatly and consistently HP interface is built around object oriented idea requires RPN. For those who are comfortable with both, RPN is a way more powerfull and ergonomic interface. Some will never fill comfortable with RPN. Those should probably buy TI89 or TI92+ rather, than HP49. Jack ==== does, however, cause the emulator to display an box containing another smaller box with another flashing little box on the upper right hand corner. Something like this: |-|-----| |_| _ | | | | | | | | | | - | |-----| where the innermost box is black, the largerst box a black outline (not filled in) and the upperleft box flashes at me. I cannot enter any info. Here's what I'm doing. Suppose I wanted to plot Y=5X^2+sin(2x^2+g). Turning the calculator on from scratch, I: turned on before) 2. hit leftshift F1 to get y= button 3. the screen comes up with 'no equ, press ADD' 4. I press ADD 5 Y1(x)= appears. 6. I type ' as suggested 7. the box appears like y1(x)= |=| ^ box arrangmeent I am free to move a pointer around the screen using the arrow keys. Moving the pointer selectes or deselects whaverever I move it over. What am I doing wrong? As per you recommendations with PRN, the reason I'm playing with this mode of entry is twofold. Firstly, I don't know RPN, but I would like to get a feel for the HP49's features before I go out and spend quite a bit of money on one. I'm interested in knowing if it's suitable EG can do laplace transforms, decent 3D graphs, etc. Secondly, I'm going to try and learn RPN. Undoubtably in a test I'll stuff it up. That's why I'd like this mode of entry as a backup. Al Borowski www.alpage.cjb.net > Simply press the following: > > ' Y = 5 * X ^ 2 + SIN 2 * X ^ 2 + 6 ENTER > > where ' requires RIGHTARROW EQW and = requires RIGHTARROW > +/- keys to be pressed. ^ is of course Y^X key. Parenthesiss are > omitted, because SIN key puts them automatically. Also closing ' is > omitted because HP does it for you when you press ENTER. > > Also, please try to stay with RPN immidietly. Force yourself to use > it for several months. Otherwise you will never use HP49 to it's full > potential. RPN requires getting used to. The longer you use > algebraic mode, the harder will be for you to switch and get used > to different intrface and different approach to entering problems into the > calculator. Being efficint with using stack advanages and understending > how greatly and consistently HP interface is built around object oriented > idea requires RPN. For those who are comfortable with both, RPN > is a way more powerfull and ergonomic interface. Some will > never fill comfortable with RPN. Those should probably > buy TI89 or TI92+ rather, than HP49. > > Jack ==== Al Borowski escribi.97 en el mensaje > > What am I doing wrong? > Don't press ' in that eviroment (EQW) but in the RPN stack: If you choose the RPN mode, then pressing ' in the stack, you will be able to write the equation as in your 39G ==== tankyou very much. apoligize if sounding incoherent becuase well after misnight working on stupif assigment. al www.alpage.cjb.net > Al Borowski escribi.97 en el mensaje > > > > What am I doing wrong? > > > > > Don't press ' in that eviroment (EQW) but in the RPN stack: > If you choose the RPN mode, then pressing ' in the stack, you will be able > to write the equation as in your 39G ==== Have you tried pressing EQW for writting your expression? Sure Jack can explain it better than I, but perhaps is a good idea download Hope this can helps ==== ...AND that evil equation editor will let you edit any expresion you entered before, for modifying it... ==== R Lion escribi.97 en el mensaje > ...AND that evil equation editor will let you edit any expresion you entered > before, for modifying it... > AND when you write your own STARTEQW, you will be able of almost anything you can imagine on the whole expression or only in a part (ex: COLLECT applied only to a denominator) ==== try the y^x key be sure to understand http://www.anti-matrix.net ==== Howlong about porting FEM v 5.0 to hp49?. It's the best and very impressive. Lomt ==== since I'm in a middle of it, I will answer to that one. Still one library to port and, of course, a little bit of overall checking. I should be already done, but I was sick for the last two weeks. Alain 3278e764.0210050648.258be370@posting.google.com... > Howlong about porting FEM v 5.0 to hp49?. It's the best and very impressive. > Lomt ==== Of course I meant the nearly finished port that is great (not the two weeks being sick...) Hope you're feeling better now! Caspar Caspar Lugtmeier & Eva Skotarczak schreef in > That is great news Alain! > Please note that FEM48 v5.0 is already available at: > http://home.hccnet.nl/c.lugtmeier/str.html > > Caspar > > > > > since I'm in a middle of it, I will answer to that one. Still one library > > to port and, of course, a little bit of overall checking. I should be > > already done, but I was sick for the last two weeks. > > > > > > Alain > > > > 3278e764.0210050648.258be370@posting.google.com... > > > Howlong about porting FEM v 5.0 to hp49?. It's the best and very > > impressive. > > > Lomt > > > > > > ==== What's your rom version of hp49 ? 1.19-6? I'm glad to hear this good news. Lomt ==== it should at least work on 1.18 and 1.19-6. Alain 3278e764.0210070204.7ae10191@posting.google.com... > What's your rom version of hp49 ? 1.19-6? > I'm glad to hear this good news. > Lomt ==== > > it should at least work on 1.18 and 1.19-6. > > Alain > > 3278e764.0210070204.7ae10191@posting.google.com... > > What's your rom version of hp49 ? 1.19-6? > > I'm glad to hear this good news. > > Lomt waiting for fem5.0 for hp49 cheer up cheer up :) ==== Like the subject says, I want to graph z^4 = 5x^2 + 6y^2 on a HP 49g. My first thought was to do a fast3d plot of f(x,y) = the forth root of (5x^2 + 6y^2). Maple says the graph looks like 2 bowels back to back. The HP shows a single strip, not 2 bowels. Can someone please enlighten me? Al www.alpage.cjb.net ==== > > Like the subject says, I want to graph z^4 = 5x^2 + 6y^2 on a HP 49g. > My first thought was to do a fast3d plot of f(x,y) = the forth root of > (5x^2 + 6y^2). Maple says the graph looks like 2 bowels back to back. > The HP shows a single strip, not 2 bowels. > > Can someone please enlighten me? > > > Al > www.alpage.cjb.net Are you sure that it isn't 2 BOWLs back to back? Also, when you graph a 4th root, you will only see the postive root, not the negative one, so your graph shows only half the actual graph. ==== > > Are you sure that it isn't 2 BOWLs back to back? > > Also, when you graph a 4th root, you will only see the postive root, > not the negative one, so your graph shows only half the actual graph. Yes, you are correct - I can't spell :-) What I'm asking is is it possible to setup the calculator so all roots are shown? I'd really like the HP to be like maple in this regard. thanks, Al www.alpage.cjb.net ==== > > > > > > Are you sure that it isn't 2 BOWLs back to back? > > > > Also, when you graph a 4th root, you will only see the postive root, > > not the negative one, so your graph shows only half the actual graph. > > Yes, you are correct - I can't spell :-) > > What I'm asking is is it possible to setup the calculator so all > roots are shown? I'd really like the HP to be like maple in this > regard. > > thanks, > > Al Perhaps you solve z^4 = 5x^2 + 6y^2 for z. You get a list of all solutions, two of which are real, so that you plot all real solutions as functions of X and Y. Greetings, Nick. ==== In general , to show this type of graph you can graph a list of 2 functions, with one representing the negative roots and one the positive roots, eg: { y= v/X y= -v/X } to show both roots of SQR(X). Dennis ==== > In general , to show this type of graph you can graph a list of 2 functions, > with one representing the negative roots and one the positive roots, eg: > > { y= v/X y= -v/X } > > to show both roots of SQR(X). > Dennis But this doesn't work for z = f(x,y) and z = - f(x,y) and fast3d graphs. ==== > > > In general , to show this type of graph you can graph a list of 2 functions, > > with one representing the negative roots and one the positive roots, eg: > > > > { y= v/X y= -v/X } > > > > to show both roots of SQR(X). > > Dennis > > But this doesn't work for z = f(x,y) and z = - f(x,y) and fast3d > graphs. You are right. You have to use the old wireframe plot type, or plot the positive branch with fast3d, press STO to put the plot on the stack, plot the negative branch (with the same settings), put the second plot on the stack and then press + to logically OR (superimpose) the two plots. Greetings, Nick. ==== You could write to BugZilla http://bugs.hpcalc.org/ a suggestion for (Cyrille?) to enhance the Fast 3D setup [V] Include Neg. Veli-Pekka > > > In general , to show this type of graph you can graph a list of 2 functions, > > with one representing the negative roots and one the positive roots, eg: > > > > { y= v/X y= -v/X } > > > > to show both roots of SQR(X). > > Dennis > > But this doesn't work for z = f(x,y) and z = - f(x,y) and fast3d > graphs. ==== Does someone know how to emulate the same functions of HP 10BII on my HP 48GX ? I need good financial functions. ==== 48GX? How about www.hpcalc.org for business applications? Bond (no, not James :) http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=169 Cash Flow (mine is currently negative :( http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4507 or a bunch of them http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=191 a smaller one: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4506 and they were all here: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/apps/misc/ Veli-Pekka > Does someone know how to emulate the same functions of HP 10BII on my HP > 48GX ? > I need good financial functions. > > > > ==== > > Does someone know how to emulate the same functions of HP 10BII on my HP > > 48GX ? > > I need good financial functions. As Veli-Pekka well put it, I encourage you to try the original last release from Mac'Don'ald Phillips http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=191, ported to 49G by John Meyers here http://hpcalc.beachnet.org/details.php?id=5014 I believe it is the most more complete financial application for the 4X series. You might try differente releases, as a whole package or as individual applications (in directories or library formats) (7) DEP (Depreciation). (8) OPTS (Black-Scholes call and put routines). (9) $INF (Inflation adjustments). (10) SIMP (Simple Interest). (11) DSEC (Discounted Securities). Perhaps, you can manage your needs with subdirectories #1, 2, 3, 4, 10... There are many others along the ones Veli-Pekka recommended, which are very good. I personally also like the recent Finanzmathematik 2.4 By Andreas M.9aller which you can find here http://hpcalc.beachnet.org/details.php?id=4968 even though it is in german. ==== I find strange the way my HP49 computes an integer part. For X>=0, no problem. But for X<0, the IP function returns something equivalent to -Int(Abs(X)), where all mathematicians worlwide would have written -Int(Abs(X))-1. Any idea ? I should add that I upgraded to Ver 1.19-6 beta... hank's in advance, Herve ==== >Any idea ? I should add that I upgraded to Ver 1.19-6 beta... >hank's in advance, >Herve I am not sure about the definitions in mathematics, but I agree I have generally seen the result of INT truncated to the next lower integer. On the 49G you have more specific control wih FLOOR and CEIL, giving the next lower integer and next higher integer specifically. IP (integer part) seems to give just that, the signed integer part of the input. Bill alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) ==== thank's to you I am now discovering CEIL... Herve 20021007162957.15625.00000763@mb-cv.aol.com... > > >Any idea ? I should add that I upgraded to Ver 1.19-6 beta... > >hank's in advance, > >Herve > > I am not sure about the definitions in mathematics, but I agree I have > generally seen the result of INT truncated to the next lower integer. On the > 49G you have more specific control wih FLOOR and CEIL, giving the next lower > integer and next higher integer specifically. IP (integer part) seems to give > just that, the signed integer part of the input. > Bill > alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please > (Use the obvious) ==== > I find strange the way my HP49 computes an integer part. For X>=0, no > problem. But for X<0, the IP function returns something equivalent > to -Int(Abs(X)), > where all mathematicians worlwide would have written -Int(Abs(X))-1. > Any idea ? I should add that I upgraded to Ver 1.19-6 beta... > hank's in advance, > Herve > > You may be confusing IP with FLOOR. IP, short for integer part, is supposed to take the integer part of the *decimal representation* of the number, just as FP takes the fractional part of that decimal representation. One should have IP(x)+FP(x) = x for all real x. For a negative non-integer, this means finding the next integer in the *positive* direction. FLOOR for a non-integer always finds the next integer in the negative direction. Thus IP(-0.5) = 0 and FLOOR(-0.5) = -1. ==== That's it ! I didn't even new FLOOR was existing... Herve vmhjr2-5DE5E9.15593206102002@netnews.attbi.com... > > > I find strange the way my HP49 computes an integer part. For X>=0, no > > problem. But for X<0, the IP function returns something equivalent > > to -Int(Abs(X)), > > where all mathematicians worlwide would have written -Int(Abs(X))-1. > > Any idea ? I should add that I upgraded to Ver 1.19-6 beta... > > hank's in advance, > > Herve > > > > > > You may be confusing IP with FLOOR. > > IP, short for integer part, is supposed to take the integer part > of the *decimal representation* of the number, just as FP takes the > fractional part of that decimal representation. > > One should have IP(x)+FP(x) = x for all real x. > > For a negative non-integer, this means finding the next integer in > the *positive* direction. > > FLOOR for a non-integer always finds the next integer in the > negative direction. > > Thus IP(-0.5) = 0 and FLOOR(-0.5) = -1. ==== I'm going to make a program where I need a full-screen menu system, and this time it's serious! :-) So I'm currently learning how to program Sys-RPL, and I wondered if someone with programming experience could give me some tips on how to make an efficient menu system... I have the Programming in System RPL (PDF) By Eduardo M. Kalinowski document as a reference, and I just want to check if the right approach to this task is to make the menu system by using using an Input Form as discussed in chapter 13??? What could I do if I wanted to make the menu list using small fonts instead (preferably from the UFL lib), it that still possible??? thanx in advance, Artur ==== You may want to take a look at these: for 49G: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3258 for 48G: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4211 I'm sure you know how to get the source code... > > I'm going to make a program where I need a full-screen menu system, and this > time it's serious! :-) > > So I'm currently learning how to program Sys-RPL, and I wondered if someone with > programming experience could give me some tips on how to make an efficient menu > system... > > I have the Programming in System RPL (PDF) By Eduardo M. Kalinowski document > as a reference, and I just want to check if the right approach to this task is > to make the menu system by using using an Input Form as discussed in chapter 13??? > > What could I do if I wanted to make the menu list using small fonts instead > (preferably from the UFL lib), it that still possible??? > > thanx in advance, Artur > ==== How can I get used manuals for programming the HP 48 contact me @ hdiaz(at)vt.edu ==== I'm a student learning to be a machinist and I need a new calculator. When working with blueprints, angle are given Degrees, Minutes and Seconds. My current HP 32S II only works with decimal degrees. Will the HP48GX work in D.M.S.? Or any other RPN calculator that will? Barry Upson ==== > > I'm a student learning to be a machinist and I need a new calculator. > > When working with blueprints, angle are given Degrees, Minutes and Seconds. > My current HP 32S II only works with decimal degrees. Will the HP48GX work > in D.M.S.? > Or any other RPN calculator that will? > > Barry Upson The HP48 does conversions but it is hidden in TIME utilities, function HMS-> and ->HMS. I don't know the 32, maybe there is this functionality Arnaud ==== > > I'm a student learning to be a machinist and I need a new calculator. > > When working with blueprints, angle are given Degrees, Minutes and Seconds. > My current HP 32S II only works with decimal degrees. Will the HP48GX work > in D.M.S.? > Or any other RPN calculator that will? > > Barry Upson Of course the HP48GX will work with D.M.S. You can supply the functions that need an angle argument such an angle in D.M.S format. But you can always convert between decimal degrees and D.M.S. with the functions ->HMS and HMS-> . Greetings, Nick. Greetings, Nick. ==== Barry escribi.97 en el mensaje > > I'm a student learning to be a machinist and I need a new calculator. > > When working with blueprints, angle are given Degrees, Minutes and Seconds. > My current HP 32S II only works with decimal degrees. Will the HP48GX work This is not exactly: it only works with decimal BUT you can give data in sexagesimal, translate them to decimal, make the operations and finally, translate to sexagesimal for reading the answer. If I want add 3.bc 15' 34 '' plus 2.bc 20' 14'' in my 15c I do: 3.1534 ->H 2.2014 ->H + getting the decimal answer: 5.5967 Then ->H.MS for the sexagesimal answer: 5.3548, which means 5.bc 35' 48'' Look for something like this in your 32. The 48 will let you add directly in sexagesimal if you wish. ==== You can ENTER units in DMS, but calculations must be done in decimal degrees. The HP48 has commands to calculate both to and from DMS to decimal. Using the HP48 makes this easy, as you can program these conversions to take place automatically if you like. Dennis ==== > The HP48 has commands to calculate both to and from DMS to > decimal. Using the HP48 makes this easy, as you can program these > conversions to take place automatically if you like. The following DMS program (version 1) puts the HP49 or HP49 into a virtual Degrees Minutes Seconds Display Mode whereby ALL calculations (of ANY kind, not just arithmetic) are performed directly in DMS notation: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/utils/misc/dms.zip There is also a new, improved version 2 of DMS which has these new features: (1) Angles can be > 360Á. (2) Negative angles are allowed. (3) New menu key: [±180] computes equivalent angle between -180Á and +180Á. (4) New menu key: [<360] computes equivalent angle between 0Á and 360Á. (5) MIN and SEC keys have been renamed to +MIN and +SEC for clarity. It's available here: http://holyjoe.org/dms2.zip Enjoy! -Joe- joehorn@jps.net http://HolyJoe.org ==== Joseph K. Horn escribi.97 en el mensaje > > There is also a new, improved version 2 of DMS which has these > new features: > .... > (5) MIN and SEC keys have been renamed to +MIN and +SEC for > clarity. Are you sure? ==== R Lion schrieb im Newsbeitrag > You like Dungeon Keeper 2? Yes, a really nice game, but my favourite is Dungeon Keeper 1;-) Raymond ==== > You can ENTER units in DMS, but calculations must be done in decimal degrees. > The HP48 has commands to calculate both to and from DMS to decimal. Using the > HP48 makes this easy, as you can program these conversions to take place > automatically if you like. > > Dennis ==== HMS+ and HMS- You can assign these to the [ + ] and [ - ] keys so that in user mode they do the HMS calculation How to program HMS* and HMS/ and what do they mean? That I leave to you Veli-Pekka > > You can ENTER units in DMS, but calculations must be done in decimal > degrees. > > The HP48 has commands to calculate both to and from DMS to decimal. Using > the > > HP48 makes this easy, as you can program these conversions to take place > > automatically if you like. > > > > Dennis > > ==== I followed manual directions but stack still doesn't appear numbered 4 3.2.1. Can someone give directions please. I just got thiis HP49G. ==== I followed manual directions but stack still doesn't appear numbered 4 3.2.1. Can someone give directions please. I just got this HP49G. Stack on HP49G looks like :1 1 :2 2 :3 3 :4 4 Can I get these to line up as below? The stack appears to be backward from my HP48GX in which stack level numbers are in reverse order Same inputs above look like the following for HP48GX ??? 4: 1 3: 2 2: 3 1: 4 I then dropped 4 and edited 2 to look like232 on HP49G stack looks like : 232 232 ? What is going on here? mmstat ==== > I followed manual directions but stack still doesn't appear numbered 4 > 3.2.1. Can someone give directions please. I just got this HP49G. You're in algebraic mode, also known as stupid mode. Press [MODE] [+/-] [ENTER] to change to RPN mode, also known as smart mode. If RPN mode befuddles you, press [MODE] [+/-] [ENTER] again to return to stupid mode. Hope this helps! -Joe- joehorn@jps.net http://HolyJoe.org ==== In message <1050661f.0210110737.76cd757d@posting.google.com>, Joseph K. >> I followed manual directions but stack still doesn't appear numbered 4 >> 3.2.1. Can someone give directions please. I just got this HP49G. > >You're in algebraic mode, also known as stupid mode. Press [MODE] >[+/-] [ENTER] to change to RPN mode, also known as smart mode. If >RPN mode befuddles you, press [MODE] [+/-] [ENTER] again to return to >stupid mode. Calling it stupid mode runs the risk that the user might be thought stupid rather than the mode. (I'm sure that this never occurred to you ;-) So how about calling them school mode and proper mode? -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== I just keep calling the Algebraic mode The Dark Side of the Force If you go to the Dark Side forever it will rule your destiny! Yoda-Pekka X > Calling it stupid mode runs the risk that the user might be thought > stupid rather than the mode. (I'm sure that this never occurred to you > ;-) > > So how about calling them school mode and proper mode? ==== I agree with Viktor Toth (programmable calculators museum) in easy to learn is not easy to use... http://www.rskey.org/hp39g.htm I think the problem is many young people don't want to do the EFFORT of learning RPN: this seems difficult, give me other, please. I'm afraid that this in not the only effort that they don't want to do... but I recognise be very happy when I see one of my pupils enjoying with a keystroke programmable Casio, like I did 20 years ago... ==== > I followed manual directions but stack still doesn't appear numbered 4 > 3.2.1. Can someone give directions please. I just got this HP49G. Why don't you follow the advice already given by Bernd and R Lion? ==== > > Why don't you follow the advice already given by Bernd and R Lion? Express? ==== Seen: > why don't I see the Bernd's post with my Outlook Express? News is a kind of broadcast service; not all of it reaches all ISPs; in fact, our local ISP used to capture only about half the posts in this group; then they contracted out to a big newsfeeds company instead (and even that goliath misses some that appear elsewhere). Google gets most everything, though. The arrival sequence also varies, according to different routes which messages follow between original senders and world-wide recipients; replies sometimes appear before original questions in some cases. -[]- . ==== > Express? used in the subject line, so no language bugs in OE should prevent you from seeing it. A number of things can be the cause: - There is a problem with synchronization of outgoing news data from Austria, ingoing news data to Spain, or somewhere on the way. - Your news server has crashed, and data will be rebuilt. - The news server you use is not updated yet, but will be shortly. I vote for the last option. ==== mmstat escribi.97 en el mensaje > I followed manual directions but stack still doesn't appear numbered 4 > 3.2.1. Can someone give directions please. I just got thiis HP49G. I see you have chaged of calculator yet... Just select RPN instead Algebraic in Modes input form (press key MODE) ==== Maybe you are in Algebraic - Mode ! Switch to RPN Mode by : Mode - Key -> Algebraic Mode (use now th2 +/- key to change to RPN Mode) and press the OK Key ! HTH Bernd mmstat schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I followed manual directions but stack still doesn't appear numbered 4 > 3.2.1. Can someone give directions please. I just got thiis HP49G. > > ==== I'm trying to make a file with some notes on my computer and transfer them to my HP49G. I tried creating a text file in notepad and transferring it over but I got an error message. Carmen ==== > I'm trying to make a file with some notes on my computer > and transfer them to my HP49G. > I tried creating a text file in notepad and > transferring it over but I got an error message. The terminology (this is text, so I'll download in ascii mode) can lead us, in this case, to do the opposite of what works. Transferring with Kermit in ascii mode acts like just typing from the keyboard, which gets compiled and syntax-checked, expecting data or programs, so it doesn't process any old text (the same goes for the 49G text editor application, which is for editing data or programs, *not* for editing general text!) On the other hand, binary transfer (Kermit or Xmodem) downloads every byte, unchanged, directly into the calc, and will actually download any computer file at all, as a string. But here's another way, which even removes the useless carriage return characters which PCs still put at the end of every line: Computer file: %%HP: T(3); C$ $ [follow with any text at all, any number of lines, no quoting needed] It also now doesn't care what transfer mode Kermit was set to, because the %%HP: ... ; found at the beginning of the file tells HP48/49 Kermit to use ascii mode anyway, the T(3) tells it to translate some things and to remove carriage return characters, and the syntax C$ $ tells the compiler to make one string out of all the rest of the file. ((o)) . ==== Carmen > How about storing a short string like a short string > to a variable, say 'text.txt' in your calculator > and then transferring that to your PC. > You may then in your PC examine the first line > of your file - a header - where you will find the information > necessary for the text file transmission to the calc. > You this file as a template for any further transmissions. > Good luck! > > I'm trying to make a file with some notes on my computer and transfer > > them to my HP49G. I tried creating a text file in notepad and > > transferring it over but I got an error message. > > Carmen > > ==== Sorry this is off topic, just wanted to know if anyone have the 49G ==== I've tried, but after start it has some problems to find kmi and emu.rom files... but at least it starts.. I haven't played much with it. J.Manrique http://www.asturlinux.org/~jsmanrique Users Club from Gij.97n http://www.etsiig.uniovi.es/asociaciones/clubusu #1077 HPCC Member http://www.hpcc.org > Sorry this is off topic, just wanted to know if anyone have the 49G ==== Saturn will not compile, I get make: *** No rule to make target `saturn.man', needed by `saturn._man'. Stop. Any ideas? > > I've tried, but after start it has some problems to find kmi and > emu.rom files... but at least it starts.. I haven't played much with > it. > > > J.Manrique > http://www.asturlinux.org/~jsmanrique > Users Club from Gij.97n > http://www.etsiig.uniovi.es/asociaciones/clubusu > #1077 HPCC Member > http://www.hpcc.org > > > >>Sorry this is off topic, just wanted to know if anyone have the 49G > ==== > Saturn will not compile, I get make: *** No rule to make target > `saturn.man', needed by `saturn._man'. Stop. Any ideas? > saturn is a bit dusty, and its Imakefile is not quite up to date for your version of XWS. As a quick workaround, I suggest to do: $touch saturn.man pack.man immediately after xmkmf (and before make), in the top-level source directory. The saturn's manual is in texi format anyway, so this does not harm. Ivan -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ivan Cibrario Bertolotti / phone: +39 011 5645426 IEIIT - National Research Council / c/o Politecnico di Torino / fax: +39 011 5645429 ==== > Sorry this is off topic, just wanted to know if anyone have the 49G Emu48 works just perfectly under wine. -- Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. ==== Anybody in this forum could say me how I can calculate a linear system command). -Dante. ==== for example : y'' + 2y' + y = e^(-x) You put the right side on stack (level 2 -> argument 1) exp(-x) the left side you can express as follows: x^2 + 2x + 1 (the 2nd derivate of y is now expressed as x^2, the 1st derivate as x and so on ...) After that Your stack should look like: 2: exp(-x) 1:x^2+2*x+1 LDEC press ENTER and you will get the result HTH Bernd Dante Aron.92 C. schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Anybody in this forum could say me how I can calculate a linear system > command). > -Dante. ==== Trying to run Calculo Numerico I 1.0 Beta but I guess I don't know how. I select the file and press eval but nothing happens, I see the memory usage goes up. Does any one know how to use this program? I have others that do the same thing - I know it is me and NOT the calculator. Any help would be appreciated. - Jamie ==== > Trying to run Calculo Numerico I 1.0 Beta but I guess I don't know how. > I select the file and press eval but nothing happens, I see the memory > usage goes up. Does any one know how to use this program? I have > others that do the same thing - I know it is me and NOT the calculator. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > - Jamie Any relation to Niels? ;-) Anyway, this software is a library, it doesn't run itself but it is rather a collection of commands that are available on your HP after you installed the library. To install it you can enter the number of the port of memory where you want to store it. For example you enter 0 to store it in port 0. Then you press STO and switch the HP off then back ON to warmstart it. After that you can go to the libraries menu and press the menu key of Calculo Numerico, or just enter 1106 and press MENU, to go to to the menu of that library. In this menu you have several commands that you can use according to the manuals of the library. You can even use the available commands in your own programs. Did that help a bit? Greetings, Nick. ==== Okay, so I lost my HP49 when it was stolen. That was careless inattention on my part. Dumb, dumb. So I set out to get another one, and discovered that they’ve vanished from Toronto. The university bookstores and various electronic stores didn’t even want to bother ordering one. Fortunately the Grand & Toy office supply store came to the rescue and had one in for me in three days. It was absurdly expensive at $325 Cdn, but at least I didn’t have to go through the hassle of And it turned out to be one of the newer Chinese models, with the serial starting with CN. It included the Advanced User’s Guide and a DB9 adapter for the serial cable. The keyboard is a little bit softer than the Indonesian model, but it still needs work. It ain’t no HP48. Instead of the glossy light blue finish, it’s now a pebbly light blue finish, which doesn’t make the tiny lettering any easier to read. On the plus side, the screen cover has no rainbow effect at all. The OS is still 1.18. On the back of the manual is a list of the features, and curiously, it says that the flash ROM is 1.25 megabytes. Sounds likes over-enthusiastic marketing - even after deleting the demo, it read only one meg. The advanced manual isn’t all that advanced. It spends far too many pages rehashing stuff from the regular manual, and it only covers the CAS commands - there’s almost nothing about the actual operation. And of course it’s out of sync with version 1.19-6. Sure nice to have it back, though. With the help of all the great software written by people on this newsgroup, I’ll soon have it the way HP should have done it in the first place. Bill ==== X > Instead of the glossy light blue finish, it’s now a pebbly light > blue finish, which doesn’t make the tiny lettering any easier to > read. On the plus side, the screen cover has no rainbow effect at > all. The OS is still 1.18. On the back of the manual is a list of > the features, and curiously, it says that the > flash ROM is 1.25 megabytes. Sounds likes over-enthusiastic marketing > - even after deleting the demo, it read only one meg. Well, with ROM 1.18 (which is the latest Commercial version) takes only 1MB - 64KB and leaves to you 1MB + 64KB give or take a few bytes. The new Beta 1.19-6 takes that extra half-slot away from you but gives in return quite a stable OS with a lot of enhancements If we are ever going to get the 1.19-7, it will be even better. Even the 1.19-5 was - compared to any previous HP top-model - enough bug-free to be a final release or Commercial 2.00 While 1.19-6 could have been 2.02 and the up-coming 1.19-7 I would rename to 2.04. Veli-Pekka ==== How does one search all of comp.sys.hp48 for messages concerning a topic of interest. On HP49 I want to store a program entitled COLRED. When I press sto it says STO ERROR BAD ARGUMENT TYPE? What is wrong? mmstat ==== > How does one search all of comp.sys.hp48 > for messages concerning a topic of interest. For search: http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search?group=comp.sys.hp48 For help: http://groups.google.com/googlegroups/help.html For other info and useful tools and programs: http://www.hpcalc.org > I want to store a program entitled COLRED. > When I press STO it says STO ERROR: BAD ARGUMENT TYPE Assuming you are in RPN mode, the stack must look like this: 2: any object (your already-edited program, for example) 1: 'name' (must be quoted with ['] not []) Then press STO. BTW, have you looked through whatever manual and quick-ref guide came with your calc? The quick-ref guide shows arguments needed by commands, doesn't it? If you want to keep the program stored in user memory while you edit it, put an empty program << >> on the stack and store it; then use the 49G Filer to edit it, and keep storing it again from time to time, to save the changes you have already made (just as on a computer). ((o)) . ==== Try this link: http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=STO%20ERROR%20BAD%20ARGUMENT%20TYPE&saf e=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_ugroup=*hp48*&lr=&num=30&hl=en or go to www.deja.com and create a new search. > How does one search all of comp.sys.hp48 for messages concerning a topic of > interest. On HP49 I want to store a program entitled COLRED. When I press > sto it says STO ERROR BAD ARGUMENT TYPE? > What is wrong? > > mmstat > > ==== Well I have tried and tried and I cannot seem to get my HP49G to comm with a PC running Windows XP, windows 2000, nothing at all, I have checked settings, comm ports,etc. I am running PCconnectivity software and have tried hyper terminal. I am putting in server mode and matching config settings. Does anybody know what the secret is, I have had HP49G for 3 months and think its great but I want to get a hold of all the software that is available like I see my fellow students have with the HP48. HELP please Paul Young ==== > Well I have tried and tried and I cannot seem to get my HP49G > to communicate with a PC running Windows XP, windows 2000, > nothing at all, I have checked settings, comm ports,etc. > I want to get a hold of all the software that is available > as I see my fellow students have with the HP48. Try connecting your 49G to a fellow-student's HP48, with the supplied short 49G cable, and try to exchange some objects; if this doesn't work either, try getting a warranty exchange from HP. If transfer works between calculators but not between 49G and PC, check your calc serial number -- if it begins with ID93... then it may not work with various computers, and should also be exchanged by HP. The 49G Serial port bug explained in detail: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/serial.zip Good luck! ((o)) . ==== > The 49G Serial port bug explained in detail: > http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/serial.zip More details here: [only in Spanish, though] http://www.ate.cl/home/serie93.htm http://www.ate.cl/home/archivos/serie93.pdf Best Wishes, HPCC member #1046 - ==== I am looking for an RPL compiler running over Windows 2000. The goal is to be able to practice RPL at the office without playing too visibly with my HP49G :-) I tried to run Emu48, but this is not that confortable. Any idea ? Herve ==== > I am looking for an RPL compiler running over Windows 2000. > Any idea ? There's an RPL/2 compiler, wich resembles RPL of HP28 quite good. It has been compiled successfully on cygwin under Windows, so you can try it: http://rpl2.free.fr -- Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. ==== Herve 20021010073519.GA32257@mojo.tepkom.ru... > > > I am looking for an RPL compiler running over Windows 2000. > > Any idea ? > > There's an RPL/2 compiler, wich resembles RPL of HP28 quite good. > It has been compiled successfully on cygwin under Windows, so > you can try it: > http://rpl2.free.fr > > -- > Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. ==== why are they so slow??? its not funny how slow they are, and omg graphing is as slow as can be. anyway to speed things up? also i hear hp49g has no infrared, so then why is there an infrared thingy on the top of the calc??? ==== > why are they so slow??? Because the CPU is a 4 bit 4 mhz CPU that is a 20+ year old technology and has never been revisited since > its not funny how slow they are, and lomg > graphing is as slow as can be. I know... > anyway to speed things up? Yes, there is a speed up module made by a german company that speed things up slightly, but I don't now if it's going to be fast enough for you.. > also i hear hp49g has no infrared, so then why is there an infrared > thingy on the top of the calc??? Because this allows to have only 1 manufacturing mold (they cost a fortune) for the 49 and the 39 that has IR. ==== > anyway to speed things up? A free and easy way to speed up graphing is to change RES to #2 (or to an even higher setting for turbo mode). Example: #2 RES ... then plot your graphs as usual, except twice as fast! Nifty, huh? The lower-resolution tradeoff only becomes visible in graphs that jump around a lot. For relatively smooth curves, #2 RES is perfectly sufficient. For TI graphing quality, try #4 RES. ;-) -Joe- joehorn@jps.net http://HolyJoe.org ==== thanks for everyones input speed up module eh?? i'll give it a try, where do i go? ==== http://www.cynox.de VP > thanks for everyones input > > speed up module eh?? i'll give it a try, where do i go? ==== > why are they so slow??? What is too slow? > its not funny how slow they are, and omg > graphing is as slow as can be. What are you trying to graoh, and how do you enter it? > anyway to speed things up? What do you want faster? > also i hear hp49g has no infrared, so then why is there an infrared > thingy on the top of the calc??? There isn't. ==== I am curious on how other people store programs on their 49g. Also I am curious on how they store any notes associated with these formula - and pictures. I think it would be beneficial for a lot of people if some of us got together and built a library of common formula in a format that easy to use and makes it easy for people to learn these formula from the calculator. Any tips or tricks you have used with storing formula would be interesting. MC ==== > I am curious on how other people store programs on their 49g. Also I am > curious on how they store any notes associated with these formula - and > pictures. > I think it would be beneficial for a lot of people if some of us got > together and built a library of common formula in a format that easy to use > and makes it easy for people to learn these formula from the calculator. > Any tips or tricks you have used with storing formula would be interesting. Look at www.hpcalc.org. ==== > Dan Coffin's Algebra and pre-calculus book on the HP48G/GX > has a nice set of HP programs in the back of the book. > Are these available in electronic form anywhere, > so I might download them from my computer to my calculator? If not, an electronic form can be created on your own computer by typing them using Notepad, etc., which may be easier than typing them directly on the calculator. Although you can then transfer these files to the calculator using the file transfer software, I find it nicer to use the emulator instead on the PC, because then you can try everything first on the emulated calculator, then download from the emulated calculator to the real calculator. Text files can be dragged and dropped right onto an emulator window on the PC (or copied and pasted from posts, etc.), where they will then appear on the stack. Likewise, text strings can be copied from the emu48 stack and pasted into other text files on the PC. Characters not found on a normal PC keyboard can be represented using backslash equivalents, e.g. << my program >> Translation of the backslash equivalents to what the calculator actually understands can be performed using simple programs which you can keep right in your [emulated] calculator (or does emu48 have internal translation nowadays?) Actually, I keep my entire calculator in the emulator, and just download memory backups to the calc now and then (if I can still find my calculator any more :) For the next update of Emu48/49, perhaps Christoph might just add a Hot Sync button to make it complete :) Backslash (digraph) equivalents: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8013hf%24apm%241%40nnrp1.deja.com Copies of backslash translators which I use in my emulator: To compile text from PC, dropped or pasted onto emulator stack: *HP49* only! << ->STR 3. TRANSIO #2F34Dh SYSEVAL + STR-> >> 'IN' STO *HP48* only! << ->STR 3. TRANSIO #3016Bh SYSEVAL + STR-> >> 'IN' STO To generate PC text (for copy/paste) from any stack object: *HP49* only! << STD 64. STWS ->STR 3. TRANSIO #2F34Fh SYSEVAL >> 'OUT' STO *HP48* only! << STD 64. STWS ->STR 3. TRANSIO #2FEC9h SYSEVAL >> 'OUT' STO Then I just type IN to import from my PC, and I type OUT to export back to my PC! If some text file happens to begin with %%HP: T(3)... etc. (this is created by HP Kermit when it sends files from the calc), then here is an additional program which first removes the Kermit header and then invokes the above 'IN' program: *HP48/49* << ->STR DUP %%HP: POS { DUP ; POS 1. + OVER SIZE SUB } IFT IN >> 'KIN' STO If you want to be sure of strictly correct ascii program transfers, be sure to set an HP49 to Approximate mode before importing a file from an HP48, and to Exact mode before importing a file from an HP49. For manually typed files to be imported into an HP49, either include decimal points with every real number, to distinguish real-valued integers from exact integers (e.g. 123. vs 123), or else set the HP49 to Approximate mode to assume that all integers are real-valued. IMPORTANT: Select only the above program versions corresponding to your actual calculator model, type the addresses very carefully (in HEX mode), and always backup memory before trying any syseval programs! (because any mistake could wipe out calc memory!) Still looking for Emu48/49? As of version 1.31: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/pc/emulators http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/pc/emulators/emu48-1.30.zip http://privat.swol.de/ChristophGiesselink/emu48.htm http://privat.swol.de/ChristophGiesselink/Emu48-1_30.zip http://privat.swol.de/ChristophGiesselink/e48bp31.zip [1.31 update] http://www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/49.html [49G ROM] http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/pc/emulators/gxrom-r.zip HP file transfer for Windows: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/pc/link http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/pc/link/hpcomm-30r4.zip http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/pc/link/hpcomm-s.zip [with Xmodem] http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/pc/link/kermit3.zip [MS-DOS Kermit] Backslash (digraph) equivalents: Num Sym Description --- --- ----------- 128 <) angle symbol 131 v/ square root 132 .S integral symbol 133 GS Greek Sigma (GSLIST) 135 pi pi 136 .d derivative symbol 137 <= less or equal 138 >= greater or equal 139 =/ unequal 141 -> right arrow (->LIST, -> a b c) 142 <- left arrow (<-local) 143 |v down arrow (|vMATCH) 144 |^ up arrow (|^MATCH) 156 PI capital pi (PILIST) 159 oo infinity 171 << program delimiters 187 >> 092 backslash Notice how most of these conveniently look like the characters which they represent. Lower-case Greek letters: Ga (alpha), Gb (beta), etc. Upper-case Greek letters: GD (Delta), GW (Omega), GS (Sigma) For any other character, you can use nnn (with the 3-digit decimal character number, which you can obtain from the CHARS application in the calc). [r->] [OFF] . ==== John H Meyers escribi.97 en el mensaje > > Actually, I keep my entire calculator in the emulator... I am not the only fool... > For the next update of Emu48/49, perhaps Christoph might just add > a Hot Sync button to make it complete :) Yes, please. ==== Do you find it too much bother to deal with the kluge factor or details of INPUT, INFORM, etc. when wanting to ask for simple input in a casually written program? Here's a very simple, informal way to ask for input using a menu: { list of variable names } INMENU The screen displays white menu labels for the variables and says Type data, press key (data is both stored and displayed in the status area when you press). The last (black) menu key says OK; press it to resume the program that called INMENU. To display all visible labels and stored values at once, press right-shift cursor-down (review). Do whatever you wish with the stored values that you collect. INMENU was formerly posted using 30 MENU as its engine, but here's a simpler version, suggested by David Rankin: *HP49* version: << { { OK << 0. MENU CONT >> } } + TMENU #25EFFh SYSEVAL 2. ->HEADER Type data, press key PROMPT >> 'INMENU' STO *HP48* version: << { { OK << 0. MENU CONT >> } } + TMENU #151A6h SYSEVAL Type data, press key PROMPT >> 'INMENU' STO Please choose the version matching your calculator model, and always back up memory before using any syseval stuff! To make a version with an extra Cancl key in the menu: << { { CANCL << 0. MENU KILL >> } { OK << 0. MENU CONT >> } } + TMENU #NNNNNh SYSEVAL ... Type data, press key PROMPT >> 'INMENU' STO On HP48 you can replace CANCL with (AN(L to avoid truncating the L in the menu label, as is done in many internal 48G Inform/Choose/etc. menus. According to David Rankin, the HP28S already had a built-in feature which permitted creating a similar one touch menu to ask for input; if so, this feature seems to have disappeared from the HP48 and HP49: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=39BDB6B5.F04EBA84%40txucom.net Using SolvMenuInit (program is for *48* only!): http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=39BF0E6E.9E02CD7D%40txucom.net When *not* to use SolvMenuInit: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8pnvl9%24h8p%241%40nnrp1.deja.com [r->] [OFF] . ==== John H Meyers escribi.97 en el mensaje > Here's a very simple, informal way to ask for input using a menu: > > { list of variable names } INMENU The new command INMENU has been added to my personalized PRG / IN menu. ==== I would appreciate it if someone could convert me this simple RPL task to SysRpl. DO DO 1 SRECV DROP2 TICKS DUP ROT - B->R 64290.816 SWAP / SWAP + Km/h. + 3 DISP 'j' INCR DROP UNTIL KEY END UNTIL 13 == END Tal ==== i would like to have axes, when i am drawing equations in fast3d, is there a chance to get them? Thanx ==== No, when you draw the axes, things gets really too cluttered and dificult to read. This is why I setteled on the small 3 axis indication at the bottom left of the display. > > i would like to have axes, when i am drawing equations in fast3d, is there a > chance to get them? > > Thanx > > ==== Does anyone know the status of hp.calc.org? When I tried to download a program I got a message currently down. Are the mirror sites working? Also when I finally get a response and used Gozilla to download a file it keeps trying,but never connects. Harold A. Climer Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy U. Tennessee at Chattanooga ==== | Does anyone know the status of hp.calc.org? | When I tried to download a program I got a message currently down. Do you mean www.hpcalc.org? That was fine yesterday. -bpb -- ==== I have the following issue : I run a W2K machine. Emu48 works fine with 48 PROM and skins, but crashes with 49 prom and skins. I tried all sorts of releases of prom, including 1.19-6 and all sorts of skins, always the same issue. Any idea ? Herve ==== Try to re-download a new ROM from the internet My W2000 works fine (I emulate only the 49G) > I have the following issue : > I run a W2K machine. Emu48 works fine with 48 PROM and skins, but > crashes with 49 prom and skins. I tried all sorts of releases of prom, > including 1.19-6 and all sorts of skins, always the same issue. > Any idea ? > Herve ==== Yes, but from where ? Any address to recommend ? Hrerve Veli-Pekka Nousiainen a .8ecrit dans le message de > Try to re-download a new ROM from the internet > My W2000 works fine (I emulate only the 49G) > > I have the following issue : > > I run a W2K machine. Emu48 works fine with 48 PROM and skins, but > > crashes with 49 prom and skins. I tried all sorts of releases of prom, > > including 1.19-6 and all sorts of skins, always the same issue. > > Any idea ? > > Herve > > ==== www.hpcalc.org > Yes, but from where ? Any address to recommend ? > Hrerve > > Veli-Pekka Nousiainen a .8ecrit dans le message de > > Try to re-download a new ROM from the internet > > My W2000 works fine (I emulate only the 49G) > > > I have the following issue : > > > I run a W2K machine. Emu48 works fine with 48 PROM and skins, but > > > crashes with 49 prom and skins. I tried all sorts of releases of prom, > > > including 1.19-6 and all sorts of skins, always the same issue. > > > Any idea ? > > > Herve > > > > > > ==== I have no more serial port on my computer so I would like to know if it is possible to make a cable to connect my HP49 via my internal modem (and then use an XModem software)? I have been looking for the connections, but I didn't find them. Can anybody help? Arthur ==== Yes it is, but why don't you buy an USB-Serial converter? > > I have no more serial port on my computer so I would like to know if it > is possible to make a cable to connect my HP49 via my internal modem > (and then use an XModem software)? > I have been looking for the connections, but I didn't find them. Can > anybody help? > > > Arthur ==== This is my first time posting to this group, most likely because I don't even own a HP calculator (yet). I am going into 3rd year Electrical Engineering and so far I have gotten by with a casio scientific calc. Up to this point I really havent had a need for anything else, any assignments involving matrices greater than 3x3 I solved on my computer... Many tests I have written did not allow the use of calculators and the ones that did prohibited graphing calcs for the most part, but this may not be the case in third year... Even though I may not get to use a graphing calc on tests, I still believe it is something an Engineer should have... I have been looking around on the web for a while and it appears that the 48G series is the main choice of Engineers. My main concern with this is that it uses the RPN system, which I have had no experience with before. My lack of experience is not my main concern though... I am worried that if I take the time to learn how to use RPN and use it for all my assignments and calculations, that when it comes down to test time and I have to use my scientific calc, I will have frogotten how to use it (well maybe not that extreme) but I will not be as proficient at using it or familiar with the operations as I used to be, putting me at a disadvantage during the test. If anyone has had a similar experience as this, I would be grateful to hear about it and their opinion on the matter (recommend a different calc?). Also, if I were to buy a 48G series calculator, which would be the most reasonable one to get? Are there significant differences between the 48G and the G+, and would it be worth it for someone in my situation to spend the extra money for a 48GX? -Adrian ==== It depends on your style of solving problems whether getting a better calculator would be worth it. To be sure, the HP is better than Casio. I don't think anyone would seriously mount an argument to the contrary. Recently I've found myself engrossed in circuit simulators and MatLAB, so my calculator is starting to feel neglected. As far as using an algebraic/scientific for tests, I think if you started using an HP 48, you would find it worth your while to invest in a RPN/scientific calculator, because it really is faster at crunching numbers. If you only want to use a scientific (non graphing), I think I would even suggest going to an RPN based calc. I fell in love with RPN when I got my first HP. I used to use algebraic, but I make a lot of mistakes now if I try to go back to an algebraic calculator. However, I do know some people who have made a point of being able to easily use both algebraic and RPN. ----------------------------------------------------------- Erek Hutto Electrical Engineering Colorado School of Mines ----------------------------------------------------------- ==== > My main concern is that it uses the RPN system, > with which I have had no experience before. > I am worried that if I take the time to learn how to use RPN, > when I have to use my scientific calc, > I will have forgotten how to use it. Have you ridden a bike? Driven a car? Forgot how to ride the bike? RPN is so simple and easy a thing to grasp, that in fact, all calculators were once RPN! http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=59dcb4%2499t%40news.iastate.edu > Are there significant differences between the 48G and the G+ > and would it be worth it for someone in my situation > to spend the extra money for a 48GX? The 32K RAM 48G isn't around much any more (it's sometimes found next to a 640K PC, I guess :) 48G+ is 128K RAM and that's the end of it -- no slots for plug-ins. 48GX is 128K RAM and you can plug in 128K+2Meg more in two slots (and there's a good reason to get that first 128K separately) Tons of software comes in library form, which is best stored in those extra, roomy RAM cards. How come you didn't ask about a 49G? (I've got one with nice stiff rubber keys, a scratched window, a serial port that won't transfer data, no IR -- want it? ;-) ((o)) . ==== X > Tons of software comes in library form, > which is best stored in those extra, roomy RAM cards. or better yet: in a non-battery, crash-resistant FlasRAM of 1MB (plus another 256KB in port 1 plus 256KB main RAM) *included* in the price !!! > How come you didn't ask about a 49G? > (I've got one with nice stiff rubber keys, a scratched window, > a serial port that won't transfer data, no IR -- want it? ;-) The new CN models has better keyboard, hard screen cover no serial port bug (since ID94...) and the IR remains missing. Veli-Pekka - I'll take that HP 49G of yours, John, any day ;-) ==== I think he must have already given it to me, because it's the exact same description as the one I have. ----------------------------------------------------------- Erek Hutto Electrical Engineering Colorado School of Mines ----------------------------------------------------------- ==== Adrian escribi.97 en el mensaje > This is my first time posting to this group Wellcome Adrian: I'll be brief: I ever thougt the 48 is slow. I don't say when calculating but working: editing programs is boring, the matrices and equations editors are slooow... BUT Metakernel changes all, so I recommend you a 48GX+Metakernel (you will need a 128kb in slot1) or a 49G (MK is installed in its ROM) You can cheap and good (I hope!) cards here: http://uuhome.de/oklotz/index_e.html ==== Have the best from both worlds and buy the HP 49G. It has both the RPN plus a Casio-like Algebraic system. AND it has a nicely integrated fast Equation Writer in which you can write equations in pretty print = textbook style One more thing: both HP 48 and HP 49 are the fastest around on numeric matrices. 48G is not sold - at least in Finland - any more 48G+ is a far better choice. The GX has extra ports for extra RAM The 48 series keyboard has a better key click. The 49G has 1024KB of user Flash for storing extension libraries, programs, data and it doesn't need batteries and I have never managed to wipe it out after the latest commercial version 1.18. (The 1.14-n series had this problem once or twice) The 49G Flash ROM is upgradeable. You can now re-flash it to 1.19-6 Beta which is the best with a lot of enhancements. These extra capabilities of the 49G makes it the best value buy of price/memory or price/functionality Veli-Pekka X > anything else, any assignments involving matrices greater than 3x3 I X > this is that it uses the RPN system, which I have had no experience X > between the 48G and the G+, and would it be worth it for someone in my > situation to spend the extra money for a 48GX? > > > -Adrian ==== Adrian, Both the 48 and 49 are powerful calculators. The 48 has a keyboard with positive feel and if you have the 48GX with extra memory together with downloadable software from various sources it's capabilities almost match those of the 49. The 49G is more powerful out of the box. The documentation is terrible by traditional HP standards. However, there are 3rd party guides, books and manuals to help you. There are many similar sources for the 48 too - often from the same authors as the 49 literature. If you can, find people who already use these calculators. Second best option is to try them in a store. Learning RPN is not difficult. And you won't forget the other (algebraic) entry method so don't worry about that. My personal preference would be a 48G+, but ask other owners. You may get more feedback from this group to help you decide. I don't know exactly was in Toronto in June and there were good deals at stores for the 48G+ on Yonge Street. Mark. > Have the best from both worlds and buy the HP 49G. > It has both the RPN plus a Casio-like Algebraic system. > AND it has a nicely integrated fast Equation Writer > in which you can write equations in pretty print = textbook style > > One more thing: both HP 48 and HP 49 are > the fastest around on numeric matrices. > > 48G is not sold - at least in Finland - any more > 48G+ is a far better choice. > The GX has extra ports for extra RAM > The 48 series keyboard has a better key click. > > The 49G has 1024KB of user Flash for storing > extension libraries, programs, data and it doesn't > need batteries and I have never managed to wipe > it out after the latest commercial version 1.18. > (The 1.14-n series had this problem once or twice) > The 49G Flash ROM is upgradeable. > You can now re-flash it to 1.19-6 Beta > which is the best with a lot of enhancements. > > These extra capabilities of the 49G makes it the best > value buy of price/memory or price/functionality > > Veli-Pekka > > X > > anything else, any assignments involving matrices greater than 3x3 I > X > > this is that it uses the RPN system, which I have had no experience > X > > between the 48G and the G+, and would it be worth it for someone in my > > situation to spend the extra money for a 48GX? > > > > > > -Adrian > > ==== Most of you talk about the need of a keyboard for a handheld device to use it as a real calculator. The HP Xpander has (or had) a keyboard, but it missed a lot of features. Ok, ok, it was a Educational device, not a calculator. Have you thought about the posibility of an educational device like Xpander, with a keyboard layout mix between a basic calculator and a mobile phone for text input? Many keys would be saved, and it could look like Xpander... I know, most of you are calling me mad now, and maybe Casio is not a good example, but: http://www.casio.co.jp/release/2002/images/dt_5100/dt5100_02L.jpg Add an easy interface like hp40 one and some keys to access i.e. math menu, or a menu key (like Xpander one that would open first item from menu bar)... Add Giac/Xcas to it. You could continue calling me mad, but maybe, I am not the only one. J.Manrique http://www.asturlinux.org/~jsmanrique Users Club from Gij.97n http://www.etsiig.uniovi.es/asociaciones/clubusu #1077 HPCC Member http://www.hpcc.org ==== how about this? http://www.cs.queensu.ca/drl/ffes/ i think the ipaq has a tcl/tk app. could this be used with XCAS? > > Most of you talk about the need of a keyboard for a handheld device to > use it as a real calculator. The HP Xpander has (or had) a keyboard, > but it missed a lot of features. Ok, ok, it was a Educational > device, not a calculator. > > Have you thought about the posibility of an educational device like > Xpander, with a keyboard layout mix between a basic calculator and a > mobile phone for text input? Many keys would be saved, and it could > look like Xpander... > > I know, most of you are calling me mad now, and maybe Casio is not a > good example, but: > http://www.casio.co.jp/release/2002/images/dt_5100/dt5100_02L.jpg > > Add an easy interface like hp40 one and some keys to access i.e. math > menu, or a menu key (like Xpander one that would open first item from > menu bar)... Add Giac/Xcas to it. > > You could continue calling me mad, but maybe, I am not the only one. > > J.Manrique > http://www.asturlinux.org/~jsmanrique > Users Club from Gij.97n > http://www.etsiig.uniovi.es/asociaciones/clubusu > #1077 HPCC Member > http://www.hpcc.org ==== Yes, I've been seeing this method sometime ago, and I like it, but not for a handheld. I mean that it would ok for a TabletPC or similar screen, but for a reduced screen like the one in a handheld, I would prefer a gesture recognition like xstroke, defining some chars like math operations, where you write each char and is recognized : http://www.east.isi.edu/projects/DSN/xstroke/ And anyway, a keyboard is needed... each day I am more convinced.. Touchscreens and recognition gesture is nice, but you depends on a stylus or similar, and a keyboard makes you easy to type and programming. J.Manrique http://www.asturlinux.org/~jsmanrique Users Club from Gij.97n http://www.etsiig.uniovi.es/asociaciones/clubusu #1077 HPCC Member http://www.hpcc.org > > how about this? > > http://www.cs.queensu.ca/drl/ffes/ > > i think the ipaq has a tcl/tk app. could this be used with XCAS? > > > > > > > > Most of you talk about the need of a keyboard for a handheld device to > > use it as a real calculator. The HP Xpander has (or had) a keyboard, > > but it missed a lot of features. Ok, ok, it was a Educational > > device, not a calculator. > > > > Have you thought about the posibility of an educational device like > > Xpander, with a keyboard layout mix between a basic calculator and a > > mobile phone for text input? Many keys would be saved, and it could > > look like Xpander... > > > > I know, most of you are calling me mad now, and maybe Casio is not a > > good example, but: > > http://www.casio.co.jp/release/2002/images/dt_5100/dt5100_02L.jpg > > > > Add an easy interface like hp40 one and some keys to access i.e. math > > menu, or a menu key (like Xpander one that would open first item from > > menu bar)... Add Giac/Xcas to it. > > > > You could continue calling me mad, but maybe, I am not the only one. > > > > J.Manrique > > http://www.asturlinux.org/~jsmanrique > > Users Club from Gij.97n > > http://www.etsiig.uniovi.es/asociaciones/clubusu > > #1077 HPCC Member > > http://www.hpcc.org ==== > And anyway, a keyboard is needed... each day I am more convinced.. > Touchscreens and recognition gesture is nice, but you depends on a > stylus or similar, and a keyboard makes you easy to type and > programming. I remember some on here talking about developing a calculator to carry on what HP dropped. I actually think a custom keyboard for a handheld is best. We hav all of tehse qwerty keyboards taht are too big or too hard to type on. What they should make i a small keyboard that attaches to teh calculator for basic functions andt hen functions keys and then use graffiti/onscreen buttons for the rest ==== I have a Siemens SL45i, which meets many criteria. - Big display - hard plastic, backlit keys - numeric keypad - alphanumeric keys - calculator built-in - expandable to at least 128MB (Megabytes!) flash via MMC - downloadable applications (mainly games;-) - programmable in Java, so make your own RPN calc - built-in MP3-player - Infrared and serial (&USB) communications BTW: the Siemens SL45i is a mobile GSM phone, and one of the best I've seen so far. Raymond J.Manrique Lopez de la Fuente schrieb im Newsbeitrag > > Most of you talk about the need of a keyboard for a handheld device to > use it as a real calculator. The HP Xpander has (or had) a keyboard, > but it missed a lot of features. Ok, ok, it was a Educational > device, not a calculator. > > Have you thought about the posibility of an educational device like > Xpander, with a keyboard layout mix between a basic calculator and a > mobile phone for text input? Many keys would be saved, and it could > look like Xpander... > > I know, most of you are calling me mad now, and maybe Casio is not a > good example, but: > http://www.casio.co.jp/release/2002/images/dt_5100/dt5100_02L.jpg > > Add an easy interface like hp40 one and some keys to access i.e. math > menu, or a menu key (like Xpander one that would open first item from > menu bar)... Add Giac/Xcas to it. > > You could continue calling me mad, but maybe, I am not the only one. > > J.Manrique > http://www.asturlinux.org/~jsmanrique > Users Club from Gij.97n > http://www.etsiig.uniovi.es/asociaciones/clubusu > #1077 HPCC Member > http://www.hpcc.org ==== > I have a Siemens SL45i, ...and I have a Nokia 6310i, also with Java ;-) > - calculator built-in Oh, but not that advanced though ;-) > - expandable to at least 128MB (Megabytes!) flash via MMC Yes, this is pretty extraordinary. > - programmable in Java, so make your own RPN calc But Java2ME is very limited, and the phones can hardly be called fast at execution Java byte code :-/ The SDKs are crappy too. It's a great step though, but we're certainly not there yet. ==== Forget Java, unless the processor directly supports it or a decent JIT compiler generates some pretty good Xscale machine code. A real keyboard would be nice. I'll take HP 200LX with calculator functions on keytops any day. (naturally with a real calculator software inside) > > I have a Siemens SL45i, > > ...and I have a Nokia 6310i, also with Java ;-) > > > - calculator built-in > > Oh, but not that advanced though ;-) > > > - expandable to at least 128MB (Megabytes!) flash via MMC > > Yes, this is pretty extraordinary. > > > - programmable in Java, so make your own RPN calc > > But Java2ME is very limited, and the phones can hardly be called fast at > execution Java byte code :-/ The SDKs are crappy too. It's a great step > though, but we're certainly not there yet. > > ==== > Forget Java, unless the processor directly supports it > or a decent JIT compiler generates some pretty good > Xscale machine code. Been there, done that! I believe (or hope, I don't know) that Java will soon die a silent death. ==== Java...die? I don't think so. Personally, I'm a .NET fan and wouldn't mind Doug > > Forget Java, unless the processor directly supports it > > or a decent JIT compiler generates some pretty good > > Xscale machine code. > > Been there, done that! I believe (or hope, I don't know) that Java will soon > die a silent death. > > ==== > Java...die? I don't think so. Personally, I'm a .NET fan and wouldn't mind > > Doug > > > > Forget Java, unless the processor directly supports it > > > or a decent JIT compiler generates some pretty good > > > Xscale machine code. > > > > Been there, done that! I believe (or hope, I don't know) that Java will > soon > > die a silent death. > > > > ==== Sorry, I was referring to Java outside the client. > > > > > > Java...die? I don't think so. Personally, I'm a .NET fan and wouldn't mind > > > > Doug > > > > > > Forget Java, unless the processor directly supports it > > > > or a decent JIT compiler generates some pretty good > > > > Xscale machine code. > > > > > > Been there, done that! I believe (or hope, I don't know) that Java will > > soon > > > die a silent death. > > > > > > ==== Java - on desktop? No way, but... on PDA/SDA/PPC/HPC as a means of running CAS? Yes! > Java...die? I don't think so. Personally, I'm a .NET fan and wouldn't mind > > Doug > > > > Forget Java, unless the processor directly supports it > > > or a decent JIT compiler generates some pretty good > > > Xscale machine code. > > > > Been there, done that! I believe (or hope, I don't know) that Java will > soon > > die a silent death. > > > > > > ==== Why .NET? There is a free alternative called Mono, and it works in Icaza (gnome and mono father) about creating a light weight mono for handhelds, something like Compact .NET Framework from MS. More info about it: http://www.go-mono.org And Java is not free... J.Manrique > Java...die? I don't think so. Personally, I'm a .NET fan and wouldn't mind > > Doug > > > > Forget Java, unless the processor directly supports it > > > or a decent JIT compiler generates some pretty good > > > Xscale machine code. > > > > Been there, done that! I believe (or hope, I don't know) that Java will > soon > > die a silent death. > > > > ==== Owners of An Introduction to HP 48 System RPL and Assembly Language Programming by Jim Donnelly, I have checked out Jim Donnelly's SysRPL book from the library along with the program disk. However, it seems the library has not been careful with the disk because it is unreadable. They have also lost whatever backup they might have kept. It appears that these programs have not been put on hpcalc.org. What are the copying restrictions of the programs on the disk? Would it be legal for them to be posted somewhere by an owner of the book? If not, what about this: if I give my word to return my only copy to the library with the book, would anyone feel comfortable making a copy available privately? Karl. ==== > I have checked out Jim Donnelly's SysRPL book from the library along > with the program disk. However, it seems the library has not been > careful with the disk because it is unreadable. They have also lost > whatever backup they might have kept. > > It appears that these programs have not been put on hpcalc.org. > > What are the copying restrictions of the programs on the disk? Would > it be legal for them to be posted somewhere by an owner of the book? Good news! I asked Jim Donnelly about this, and he graciously gave permission for all of the book's example programs to be made freely available on the Web! You can download it from here: http://HolyJoe.org/HP48.htm#graybook Enjoy! -Joe- joehorn@jps.net http://HolyJoe.org ==== I am concidering to upgrade my already upgraded HP48G with additional 512kB RAM. I found 512kB 70ns ultra-low power static SMD RAM from Farnell, but it costs around $70 (+$11 shipping to Estonia from Finland). Is this a reasonable price for such RAM? -- Robert Tiismus ==== Robert Tiismus :: > I am concidering to upgrade my already upgraded HP48G with > additional 512kB RAM. I found 512kB 70ns ultra-low power static SMD RAM > from Farnell, but it costs around $70 (+$11 shipping to Estonia from > Finland). Is this a reasonable price for such RAM? Time has come for more direct question: Does anyone know of places which ship mentioned 512kB SRAM with a cheaper prices? I had some private responces saying that it should be possible to get such chip for less than $20, but nothing about where they reside. Robert Tiismus. ==== #3020A is compilate as %%< , but work. the error is with extable or emacs (19-6) GaaK ==== I'm about to buy one of their cards and wanted to know from people who currently use their cards if they like them or if they have come across any problems. I'm looking to get either the 2MB or the 4MB card. Any thoughts or comments? Doug ==== > I'm about to buy one of their cards and wanted to know from people who > currently use their cards if they like them or if they have come across any > problems. I'm looking to get either the 2MB or the 4MB card. Klotz make good cards (and close to the only ones you can still get :-), but stick with the 2Mb card, as 4Mb isn't supported directly by the calculator. ==== Cards for 48GX slot 2 may be up to 4MB (although final port 33 will not be accessible, due to a bug), but it has been noted that the more you store in ports (or else merely the more ports exist, I forget which), the slower the calc will start at every turn-on, because all ports have to be scanned at turn-on to detect any content change, which requires a complete library re-inventory (via warmstart) if detected. Larger cards offer only more library storage (or storage for memory backups and seldom-used data), so at some point, cost and slowness will offset the total potential available software/backup storage space. [r->] [OFF] . ==== John H Meyers escribi.97 en el mensaje > Cards for 48GX slot 2 may be up to 4MB > (although final port 33 will not be accessible, due to a bug), > but it has been noted that the more you store in ports > (or else merely the more ports exist, I forget which), > the slower the calc will start at every turn-on, > because all ports have to be scanned at turn-on > to detect any content change, which requires > a complete library re-inventory (via warmstart) if detected. > > Larger cards offer only more library storage > (or storage for memory backups and seldom-used data), > so at some point, cost and slowness will offset > the total potential available software/backup storage space. > > [r->] [OFF] > But using a fast off assigned to key 91.3, avoids this problem at all. ==== I meant to ask this earlier, but what exactly does covered and uncovered ports mean? Doug > > I'm about to buy one of their cards and wanted to know from people who > > currently use their cards if they like them or if they have come across > any > > problems. I'm looking to get either the 2MB or the 4MB card. > > Klotz make good cards (and close to the only ones you can still get :-), but > stick with the 2Mb card, as 4Mb isn't supported directly by the calculator. > > ==== Is there some kind of performance hit with the 4MB card? If its not directly supported, how does the calculator recognize and use it? Just curious, and thanks for the info. Doug > > I'm about to buy one of their cards and wanted to know from people who > > currently use their cards if they like them or if they have come across > any > > problems. I'm looking to get either the 2MB or the 4MB card. > > Klotz make good cards (and close to the only ones you can still get :-), but > stick with the 2Mb card, as 4Mb isn't supported directly by the calculator. > > ==== Think about it as a 3.5MB card instead It's still more than 2MB :-D > Is there some kind of performance hit with the 4MB card? If its not > directly supported, how does the calculator recognize and use it? Just > curious, and thanks for the info. > > Doug > > > > I'm about to buy one of their cards and wanted to know from people who > > > currently use their cards if they like them or if they have come across > > any > > > problems. I'm looking to get either the 2MB or the 4MB card. > > > > Klotz make good cards (and close to the only ones you can still get :-), > but > > stick with the 2Mb card, as 4Mb isn't supported directly by the > calculator. > > > > > > ==== The 4MB Klotz card contains 32 ports, but makes only 30 ports available at a time (a switch selects which two of the last four ports are used). What's this curious statement in the Klotz PDF file: http://uuhome.de/oklotz/hp4096ae.pdf Putting the card into a HP48SX or in slot 1 of one of these calculators will cause no damage of card or your HP but you will have access only to 1 port of 128kb. Do they have some way to avoid damaging the calc LCD, as usually happens whenever > 512K is mistakenly put in slot 1, or to prevent the slightly arbitrary selection of which 128K gets seen at different times whenever > 128K is put in slot 1? [r->] [OFF] . ==== Douglas Rohm escribi.97 en el mensaje > Is there some kind of performance hit with the 4MB card? If its not > directly supported, how does the calculator recognize and use it? Just > curious, and thanks for the info. I think there is a bug in the 48 OS and the calc can't use all the ports. You'll find some info about this here: http://uuhome.de/oklotz/hp4096ae.pdf About covered and uncovered ports: the first 256k (ports 0 and 1) are uncovered ports and some prgs need being installed here, because they are always visible to the microprocessor. Most of prgs, can be in ports >=2. ==== wait... Doug > > Douglas Rohm escribi.97 en el mensaje > > Is there some kind of performance hit with the 4MB card? If its not > > directly supported, how does the calculator recognize and use it? Just > > curious, and thanks for the info. > > I think there is a bug in the 48 OS and the calc can't use all the ports. > You'll find some info about this here: http://uuhome.de/oklotz/hp4096ae.pdf > > About covered and uncovered ports: the first 256k (ports 0 and 1) are > uncovered ports and some prgs need being installed here, because they are > always visible to the microprocessor. > Most of prgs, can be in ports >=2. > > > ==== Douglas Rohm escribi.97 en el mensaje > wait... You will enjoy... ==== Douglas Rohm escribi.97 en el mensaje > Any thoughts or comments? No problems with the mine (1Mb) ==== > I'm about to buy one of their cards and wanted to know from people who > currently use their cards if they like them or if they have come across any > problems. I'm looking to get either the 2MB or the 4MB card. > > Any thoughts or comments? really good ramcards. I bought for my 48gx a 128Kb and a 1Mb cards. Acrux, Italy ==== acrux ha scritto nel messaggio > > really good ramcards. I bought for my 48gx a 128Kb and a 1Mb cards. > > Acrux, Italy > > Could you tell me where you bought them in Italy and the price you paid for them? Thanx -- Marco Polo (red october)marko_ramius@softhome.net Remove (red october) to E-Mail..... --- ==== > acrux ha scritto nel messaggio > > > > really good ramcards. I bought for my 48gx a 128Kb and a 1Mb cards. > > > > Acrux, Italy > > > > > Could you tell me where you bought them in Italy and the price you > paid for them? > Thanx > yes, i hope help u I've not found those ones in Italy. Klotz is in Dusseldorf (Germany) and i brought them, two years ago, by This is his webpage: http:// uuhome.de/ oklotz/index_e.html see ya, Acrux Napoli ==== Has anyone had a problem with their HP48GX not powering up? Has been working well for many years but for some reason it won't turn on. Yes, I replaced the batteries :) ==== let all the charge drain. this may take more than 24 hours without the batteries in the calc. shorting the +- in the calc should help too! be sure to understand http://www.anti-matrix.net ==== Try holding down the ON key and while holding down the ON key click on the + key several times to darken the display. Just a shot in the dark... Doug > Has anyone had a problem with their HP48GX not powering up? > > Has been working well for many years but for some reason it won't turn on. > Yes, I replaced the batteries :) > > > > > ==== Another solution may be the pinhole reset. Raymond Douglas Rohm schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Try holding down the ON key and while holding down the ON key click on the + > key several times to darken the display. Just a shot in the dark... > > Doug > > > Has anyone had a problem with their HP48GX not powering up? > > > > Has been working well for many years but for some reason it won't turn on. > > Yes, I replaced the batteries :) > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== were missing from Carsten Dominik's entry database prompted me to take up a task that I intended to do at one time but forgot about. (ie. put off ;) I've compiled a list in HPTOOLS assembler format of all the 48-GX RAM entries with (hopefully) correct addresses. I've also built a new Jazz entry tables library containing these new entries. Since Hpcalc seems to be slow lately I've temporarily made this available via web space provided by my ISP. Here is the link : http://home.houston.rr.com/busby2/jdb/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== thank you very much for these files. Thomas and I have integrated the information into the general database at http://zon.astro.uva.nl/~dominik/hpcalc/entries/ - Carsten JB> were missing from Carsten Dominik's entry database prompted me to take JB> up a task that I intended to do at one time but forgot about. (ie. put JB> off ;) I've compiled a list in HPTOOLS assembler format of all the JB> 48-GX RAM entries with (hopefully) correct addresses. I've also built JB> a new Jazz entry tables library containing these new entries. JB> Since Hpcalc seems to be slow lately I've temporarily made this JB> available via web space provided by my ISP. JB> Here is the link : http://home.houston.rr.com/busby2/jdb/ ==== > were missing from Carsten Dominik's entry database prompted me to take > up a task that I intended to do at one time but forgot about. (ie. put > off ;) I've compiled a list in HPTOOLS assembler format of all the > 48-GX RAM entries with (hopefully) correct addresses. I've also built > a new Jazz entry tables library containing these new entries. > > Since Hpcalc seems to be slow lately I've temporarily made this > available via web space provided by my ISP. > Here is the link : http://home.houston.rr.com/busby2/jdb/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > > Jonathan Busby - > > before replying. I had thought this newsgroup had turned into rec.bashbush or alt.irrelevantviewsonworldpolitics... Nice to see someone who's on-topic and does something very useful. Werner Huysegoms ==== My Dad and hundreds of thousands of others from the US stopped their went to the Pacific and kicked the hell of the Japs. In short, they saved the world from the genocidal domination of murdering tyrants. They then stayed in Europe and kept the Soviets from annexing all of you. And how do you thank us here in the US? You do nothing but criticize and bash us. When the ragheads crash a crowded Airbus into the Eiffel tower or some other beauty of Europe, when Saddam or some other rogue country poisons all of Paris or Copenhagen, I know you'll feel differently. Every male member of my family has served in the Armed Forces of the United States. But I'll be damned if I'll sign up again to help you ingrates - as far as I'm concerned, you're on your own. J.C. Randerson Pueblo, Colorado ==== ... by the way, what covernment supported the taliban and Mr. Bin Laden with weapons and money? There is no black and white in the world, were the US are only a part of it. Gru¤ Alexandra ==== In message , Alexandra >by the way, what covernment supported the taliban and Mr. Bin Laden with ^^^^^^^^^^ Is this when the witches take over? ;-) -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== > My Dad and hundreds of thousands of others from the US stopped their > went to the Pacific and kicked the hell of the Japs. In short, they > saved the world from the genocidal domination of murdering tyrants. Oh dear, you appear to have your history back to front as far as Europe is concerned. It was the Russians, yes, the evil empire, that was almost wholly responsible that US soldiers made in the war against fascism, but rather place the relative contributions made by the US and the USSR in perspective. Those that learn their history from Saving Private Ryan may think differently. Again, this is not to belittle the contribution made by US soldiers, many of whom risked their lives or died to stop fascism. This is just to try to put an end to Not many Hollywood films are made about this. All you need to do is compare the number of German casualties on the Eastern front with those on the Western front, and this point will be clear to you. You can thank Uncle Joe Stalin for preventing the world from falling under the Nazi jackboot, but moreso the ordinary Russian foot soldier than Uncle Joe. (Before anyone raises the issue of the effects of weather in the Eastern front, I'll point out that the Russians too were affected by that same weather) A cynic might even argue that the goal of the D-Day invasion as far as the US govt was concerned was to prevent the Russians from overrunning all of Europe... though I'm sure that that was not on the minds of American foot soldiers (who nobly sacrificed themselves). > > Every male member of my family has served in the Armed Forces of the > United States. But I'll be damned if I'll sign up again to help you > ingrates - as far as I'm concerned, you're on your own. > I am very grateful to the American and Soviet soldiers (as well as British, Canadian, Australian, Polish, French, etc, etc, etc) that cooperated for the defeat of fascism. However, governments did this to look after their own self interest, not to do others a favour. Furthermore, I fail to see why I should be grateful to you, or the current US administration. Funnily enough, the fact that the Soviets saved the world in some Soviet-bashing. > J.C. Randerson > Pueblo, Colorado -- Remove knickers to reply. ==== > > > My Dad and hundreds of thousands of others from the US stopped their > > went to the Pacific and kicked the hell of the Japs. In short, they > > saved the world from the genocidal domination of murdering tyrants. > > Oh dear, you appear to have your history back to > front as far as Europe is concerned. It was the Russians, > yes, the evil empire, that was almost wholly responsible > that US soldiers made in the war against fascism, but rather > place the relative contributions made by the US and the > USSR in perspective. Those that learn their history from > Saving Private Ryan may think differently. I'm afraid it's like that in any other film made in Hollywood. > Again, this is not to belittle the contribution made by > US soldiers, many of whom risked their lives or died > to stop fascism. This is just to try to put an end to > Not many Hollywood films are made about this. > > All you need to do is compare the number of German > casualties on the Eastern front with those on the > Western front, and this point will be clear to you. > You can thank Uncle Joe Stalin for preventing the > world from falling under the Nazi jackboot, > but moreso the ordinary Russian foot soldier > than Uncle Joe. (Before anyone raises the issue > of the effects of weather in the Eastern front, > I'll point out that the Russians too were affected > by that same weather) > > A cynic might even argue that the goal of the D-Day > invasion as far as the US govt was concerned was to > prevent the Russians from overrunning all of Europe... > though I'm sure that that was not on the minds of > American foot soldiers (who nobly sacrificed themselves). You don't even have to be cynic. I think it's quite a fact that US wanted parts of Germany as a new frontier against the Russians. Although Russia was an ally of US at WWII, US has been quite afraid of them and their ideas allready and didn't want them to get any stronger or bigger. So maybe it was not only freeing Europe but also a bit of stopping Russia in growing any further. Knowing about this facts doesn't change history but maybe the perspective you looking at it. Roman > > > > Every male member of my family has served in the Armed Forces of the > > United States. But I'll be damned if I'll sign up again to help you > > ingrates - as far as I'm concerned, you're on your own. > > > > I am very grateful to the American and Soviet soldiers > (as well as British, Canadian, Australian, Polish, > French, etc, etc, etc) that cooperated for the defeat of > fascism. However, governments did this to look after their own > self interest, not to do others a favour. Furthermore, > I fail to see why I should be grateful to you, or the > current US administration. > > Funnily enough, the fact that the Soviets saved the world > in some Soviet-bashing. > > > > > J.C. Randerson > > Pueblo, Colorado > > -- > Remove knickers to reply. ==== > My Dad and hundreds of thousands of others from the US stopped their they > went to the Pacific and kicked the hell of the Japs. In short, they > saved the world from the genocidal domination of murdering tyrants. > They then stayed in Europe and kept the Soviets from annexing all of > you. And how do you thank us here in the US? You do nothing but > criticize and bash us. Did the US do that to hear them thank us or so they would continue to have the freedom to say what they think? Barry ==== > > My Dad and hundreds of thousands of others from the US stopped > their > they > > went to the Pacific and kicked the hell of the Japs. In short, > they > > saved the world from the genocidal domination of murdering > tyrants. > > They then stayed in Europe and kept the Soviets from annexing all > of > > you. And how do you thank us here in the US? You do nothing but > > criticize and bash us. > > Did the US do that to hear them thank us or so they would continue > to have the freedom to say what they think? > > Barry No, no thanks are required, it served or own interests almost as much as most of Europes. But a little gratitude would be appreciated. It makes it easier to help out, and ask for help, the next time. ==== No, opposing our countries ideas and policies of not allowing dictators have weapons of mass destruction does not mean that you are US bashing, it just means you have nothing to better to do with your head other than to use it to keep your ears apart. If you dont want our help or money or support, let us know. Next time that a country somewhere on the other side of the world has a repressive government that is killing off its own citizens let the armed forces of the UEN (united European Nations) send their troops in to fix the problem. I feel that for all the USA does for other countries and the UN and NATO with forces and support and financial backing that we should have a larger vote. Not the euphoric (heavy sarcasm), everyones votes count as equals, that we have now. Rather, the one who brings the most to the table, thereby the most to loose, or gain, should be the one with the biggest vote. I personally am for peace, I had no problems with Muslims or any other foriegn nationals before 9/11. I still have no problems with foriegn nationals, I go to school with them everyday. But if or when they raise up arms against America and attack and shout death to America and strike first, then let them have their just rewards! And when they feel the need to bring the attack to your homefront in Europe give us a call. I think we might have a few Liberty ships that we can patch up and send you. But lets put this aside for now. I still need help with my new calculator. ==== >No, opposing our countries ideas and policies of not allowing >dictators have weapons of mass destruction does not mean that you are Are there any country who did support more dictators with weapons and money? And then have a look how many people were killed and had to suffer unter this systems, established and supported by the US. US in the most cases did everything only to defences their own interest and for that they don't care about other lives and rights. Gru¤ Alexandra ==== > Are there any country who did support more dictators with weapons and money? Soviet Russia. AK47 is the most popular weapon in the whole world by far. Money of course not, because the Soviet system had a serious problem with generating any but that is whole different issue. Instead of money they were supporting ideas :-) > And then have a look how many people were killed and had to suffer unter > this systems, established and supported by the US. How many ? Who was counting ? > Gru¤ > Alexandra Jack ==== > Soviet Russia. AK47 is the most popular weapon in the whole world by far. No wonder. ==== > > Soviet Russia. AK47 is the most popular weapon in the whole world by far. > > No wonder. I agree. It is an excellent gun by the way. > Jack ==== >> Are there any country who did support more dictators with weapons and money? > >Soviet Russia. AK47 is the most popular weapon in the whole world by far. >Money of course not, because the Soviet system had a serious problem >with generating any but that is whole different issue. Instead of money >they were supporting ideas :-) It's true, the best selling gun of the world is made in russia. But I'm, still thinking, the US are the only country who has supportet most dictators, also with weapons. Gru¤ Alexandra ==== > >>> Are there any country who did support more dictators with weapons and money? >> >>Soviet Russia. AK47 is the most popular weapon in the whole world by far. >>Money of course not, because the Soviet system had a serious problem >>with generating any but that is whole different issue. Instead of money >>they were supporting ideas :-) Let's look at an example of somewhere that weapons made in the good old US of A are quite popular. Northern Ireland. The motto of the IRA is The ballot box and the Armalite. Not the Kalashnikov, take note. Over the past 30 years, the IRA has killed and maimed many thousands of people. Of course, the US government has never directly supported the IRA. On the other hand, it has been easy for the terrorists or their representatives to go to the USA to collect funds and buy arms. Some of these organisations have now been outlawed, but it's just a simple matter for them to change names. It seems that there are no end of pig-ignorant Merkins who know nothing of the state of affairs in Northern Ireland, but who are ready and willing to write cheques to pay for another few kilos of Semtex. And when IRA murderers become too well known by the British and Irish police, which country do they run off to where they know that they'll live comfortably and get plenty of support to block extradition? Why the USA of course. At the moment there is peace of a kind in NI. The political wing of the IRA has some power in the regional parliament which is a gross travesty of democracy - share power at all costs as long as it stops the terrorists letting off more bombs. Just to complicate matters, the IRA has bred several opposing terrorist groups - the UDA, UDF, UFF and others. There may be peace, but there's also a lot of tension. In more recent years, since there have been a few efforts to stem the flow of US dollars and arms across the Atlantic, the IRA has been involved with other terrorist organizations (they flirted for a while with Libya, and recently 3 IRA men were arrested in Colombia with the FARC, pseudo-communist coke terrorists). That the former USSR was responsible for more support of bad guys, and more directly may be the case. Personally I wouldn't be too proud to claim we support less bad guys than they do. I look forward to your justification for the IRA blowing up children, and the lack of a 100% commitment to stopping them (and all terrorists). Paul -- Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth) What happens if you have lead in your pants as well as lead in your pencil? ==== > ... > Of course, the US government has never directly supported the IRA. > ... And that is the key difference. Most of the AK47 are because of direct Soviet state support. You could not simply collect money and buy large number of AK47 to later ship them wherever you want. It was simply not possible in the entire Eastern Block without fdirect KGB order. Majority of those guns were direct operation of Soviet state to create chaos that destabilizes the west. The irony of this is that Soviets often ended up facing their own weapons directed against them but that is whole another story. > And when IRA murderers become too well known by the British and > Irish police, which country do they run off to > where they know that they'll live comfortably and get plenty of support > to block extradition? Why the USA of course. I admit, that I might be wrong, but I don't think IRA is legal in US. I've never heard that any known terrorist from IRA is allowed to stay in US. Do you have particular names ? This is interesting subject to make the leaders aware about it or even start asking questions. I personally would like to know such case. > In more recent years, since there have been a few efforts to stem the > flow of US dollars and arms across the Atlantic, the IRA has been > involved with other terrorist organizations (they flirted for a while > with Libya, and recently 3 IRA men were arrested in Colombia with the > FARC, pseudo-communist coke terrorists). The difference is that those dollars and weapons are not from the US goverment contrary to Soviets. US has many freedoms, and their citizens are allowed to express support for many abroad organisations quite freely. Even Al Quaida was using US banking system, US training schools etc. etc. You are blaiming US goverment for criminal actions support for IRA. I've never said, that there is no crime in the US. But if you do have a proof you should try to go ahead and block it through US court system. Like you said yourself some of the financial support groups in US were dismantled. Such however miniscule for you success would not be even remotely possible if there would be a Soviet support. Not only you would not could have a fair trial This kind of Soviet support to international terror was far beyond Soviet citizen control. > That the former USSR was responsible for more support of bad guys, and > more directly may be the case. Personally I wouldn't be too proud to > claim we support less bad guys than they do. Unfortunately we all do to the extent. If we start war with Saddam it is bad. If we leave him alone, in a sense we support his oppression over Iraqis people or maybe even other nations in the neighberhood. The world is not a perfect place. > I look forward to your justification for the IRA blowing up children, > and the lack of a 100% commitment to stopping them (and all > terrorists). You must have mixed me with somebody else. I was never supporting any kind of terrorism against civilian population either private or state sponsored. This kind of behaviour is never justified and I'm fully supporting British army trying to catch or kill those directly responsible. > > Paul > -- > Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth) > What happens if you have lead in your pants as well as lead in your pencil? Jack ==== > > > ... > > Of course, the US government has never directly supported the IRA. > > ... > > And that is the key difference. Most of the AK47 are because of direct > Soviet state support. Well, that's just fine then. Direct government support is bad, but a government that turns a blind eye is good. At the end of the day, the people that got killed are still dead. Ironically, I think that the IRA does have far more AK47s than Armalites. But the AK47 would be a very bad marketing image to use since it is associated with the USSR, communism, Libya and so on. [snip] > > And when IRA murderers become too well known by the British and > > Irish police, which country do they run off to > > where they know that they'll live comfortably and get plenty of support > > to block extradition? Why the USA of course. > > I admit, that I might be wrong, but I don't think IRA is legal in US. of the IRA in the USA simply change their name to Yet Another IRA, and they can carry on collecting US dollars until that organization gets banned. > I've never heard that any known terrorist from IRA is allowed to stay > in US. Do you have particular names ? This is interesting subject to > make the leaders aware about it or even start asking questions. > I personally would like to know such case. A quick look on Google turned up http://www.observer.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4426204,00.html and after a bit more digging I found http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/law/docs/mcelrath00a.htm As I said, the USA has cracked down, especially since the close relationship between Ronnie and Maggie in the early 80s. More recently, I think that there has been an amnesty following the Good Friday agreement. Still, I don't think that many US citizens would be too happy if the ball were on the other foot: imagine if the UK had harboured Al Qaeda terrorists for 17 years and refused extradition to the USA on the grounds that their acts were politically motivated. > > In more recent years, since there have been a few efforts to stem the > > flow of US dollars and arms across the Atlantic, the IRA has been > > involved with other terrorist organizations (they flirted for a while > > with Libya, and recently 3 IRA men were arrested in Colombia with the > > FARC, pseudo-communist coke terrorists). > > The difference is that those dollars and weapons are not from the > US goverment contrary to Soviets. US has many freedoms, and their Well, as I said above, that's OK then. > citizens are allowed to express support for many abroad organisations > quite freely. Even Al Quaida was using US banking system, US training > schools etc. etc. You are blaiming US goverment for criminal actions I have not once blamed the US government for any direct support of the IRA. I do blame them for complacency and inaction. > support for IRA. I've never said, that there is no crime in the US. > But if you do have a proof you should try to go ahead and block it > through US court system. Are you joking? You do know the difference between law and justice? Justice is when you get what you deserve, and law is when you get what you can afford. [snip] > > I look forward to your justification for the IRA blowing up children, > > and the lack of a 100% commitment to stopping them (and all > > terrorists). > > You must have mixed me with somebody else. No, it's called sarcasm. Paul ==== > Ironically, I think that the IRA does have far more AK47s than > Armalites. But the AK47 would be a very bad marketing image to use > since it is associated with the USSR, communism, Libya and so on. That is probably true. Like I said, AK47 is the most sucessfull and the most available weapon throughtout the world especially throughout terrorist organisations. Far more than alleged US weapon support, as Alexandra claimed. Nothin less, nothing more. > of the IRA in the USA simply change their name to Yet Another IRA, > and they can carry on collecting US dollars until that organization > gets banned. You seem to be focused particulary on IRA, but as far as I know the terror exist on both sides of this conflict. But of course, that would not excuse tolerance for any of those - I agree. I think, the problem is not because of evil US goverment is quietly supporting IRA or the other side or both, but because it is so hard to proove, that Yet Another Northern Irish support organisation is in fact terrorist front window. That is the whole point, why they call themselves with different name etc. etc. Even if you have suspicions, it does not mean that you can proove, that those Irish emigrant organizations in fact support terror. We can of course guess, that some of the money collected ended up in the hands of IRA or the other side but if you can't track them down to particular Irish oranization in USA, you would have to arrest them all and in efect use group responsibility to stop few criminals. As I said, there are many of immigrant organizations supporting various international ideas around the world including many muslim organizations. Many rich Arabs from middle east maintain bank accounts and financial operations in US. There are suspicions, that some of those especially from Saudi Arabia use those operations to support terror against Israel of even Al Quaida. As long as there is no proof you can't just arrest them all in order to win (at least not in USA). Blaiming US goverment as being the most evil in the world is a stretch at least. > > I've never heard that any known terrorist from IRA is allowed to stay > > in US. Do you have particular names ? This is interesting subject to > > make the leaders aware about it or even start asking questions. > > I personally would like to know such case. > > A quick look on Google turned up > > http://www.observer.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4426204,00.html > http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/law/docs/mcelrath00a.htm Your web findings are in fact proof that the system generally works. You have Irish criminals with connections to IRA who are fugitive. You have some corrupted police workers and their corruption is in fact, however imperfectly, but investigated. You have cases, where the first judge refuses the deportation, and the appeal court in fact deports the criminal to British authorities. There are of course cases where the deportation might be a problem. As you know, EU often refuses to deport US criminals because in US such criminal might face death countries, but in reverse US has very strong support for political refugees. Conflict in Northern Ireland do have political impact and it is very possible that some of the refugee might have reasons to avoid British authorities because they are targeted for political reasons. Britain is by nature side in the conflict. There are also cases, where particular individual was not deported but had been tried and sentenced in US. Is this also highly unfair ? Even if you consider that unfair, I would like to point out, that none of those options to pursuee the individual would exist for you if they would have support of Soviets, Chinese, Saddam etc. > Still, I don't think that many US citizens would be too happy if the > ball were on the other foot: imagine if the UK had harboured Al Qaeda > terrorists for 17 years and refused extradition to the USA on the > grounds that their acts were politically motivated. I don't recall if it was specifically UK, but EU several times refused extradiction of criminal to US because of potential for death penalty. Quite recently General Pinochet come back home to Chile from Britain despite Spain request of extradiction. There are political resons, that British also consider just like Americans. You don't see any Al Quaida denied extradictions only because Britain at the moment is a very strong supporter of US in this conflict so in fact Britain is a side in the conflict. > I have not once blamed the US government for any direct support of the > IRA. I do blame them for complacency and inaction. I agree with you. There are priorities in US policy. Some of the terrorists are getting harsher treatment than the others. There is no denial. Of course Al Quaida tops the list because this organization not only promotes violence directly against US citizens but additionaly is very succesfull at executing it. Other organizations including not only IRA, but also Hamas, Jihaad and other Palestinian or South American terrorist groups are not under such scrutiny but we both purposely done this way just to support terror. It is simply the reality of limited resources. IRA or Hamas is eqally or maybee even more difficult to investigate than Al Quaida and CIA or FBI has only limited resources. They cannot get so deeply involved in investigation against every of those groups. This is not rocket science. Police always must prioritize it's resources against criminals nad those more dangerous are getting more attention than the others. Rememebr that one need to proove the particular terrorist action to the individual in order to put him into jail. Even if you strongly suspect that particular person belongs to terrorist group, the judge needs better than this to deport the person. Otherwise it is considered to be political prisoner. > > support for IRA. I've never said, that there is no crime in the US. > > But if you do have a proof you should try to go ahead and block it > > through US court system. > > Are you joking? You do know the difference between law and justice? > Justice is when you get what you deserve, and law is when you get what > you can afford. The current legal system is the best we know to prosecute criminals. You might dislike the particular US system where it is average citizen jury making decision and where some of those decisions are later questioned by media or some in the society but that system is based on the British example, so it is not that far from the one you know yourself. However imperfect it is by far a better system that the good old Soviet system. Soviets or Nazis or other tyrnats for that matter, used to arrest everybody in the neighbourhod assuming the political criminal will be punished between those arrested. Was that succesfull ? Absolutely. How many Russian dissidents or opponents of the system managed to exist free ? Was that what you want ? I highly doubt. As far as cost of prosecuting terrorists. Yes it does cost money like everything else. What do you expect ? If Britain want those criminals prosecuted, they should pursuee them by courts and make sure they get arrested and legally deported. We pay for war against Al Quaida and this is not pocket change. This is another element of the limited resources that I mentioned to you about prioritizing particular groups over the other. > > You must have mixed me with somebody else. > > No, it's called sarcasm. I doesn't seem like one. To be clear, I don't support any kind of terrorism against civilians, neither Catholic nor a little less publicized Protestant in Northern Ireland. BTW, you never mentioned who supports protestant terrorists and makes sure, they are far less publicized around the world. (SARCASM returned :-)). > > Paul Jack ==== > >> of the IRA in the USA simply change their name to Yet Another IRA, >> and they can carry on collecting US dollars until that organization >> gets banned. > >You seem to be focused particulary on IRA, but as far as I >know the terror exist on both sides of this conflict. I mentioned the UDF, UFF and so on. In many ways they are just as bad as the Republican terrorists, though they haven't yet carried out terror campaigns outside of NI. [snip - proof] >Blaiming US goverment as being the most evil in the world >is a stretch at least. Well the US troops didn't wait one second before interning the former Al Qaeda members in Cuba without any legal process. >> > I've never heard that any known terrorist from IRA is allowed to stay >> > in US. Do you have particular names ? This is interesting subject to >> > make the leaders aware about it or even start asking questions. >> > I personally would like to know such case. >> >> A quick look on Google turned up >> >> http://www.observer.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4426204,00.html >> http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/law/docs/mcelrath00a.htm > >Your web findings are in fact proof that the system generally >works. You have Irish criminals with connections to IRA who Your faith in the legal system is touching. These cases are the ones that were uncovered. We will never know how many guns were smuggled without anyone noticing, or whether there were terrorists that went into hiding using false identities who were never detected. IMHO the legal system failed. [snip - political prisoners escaping deportation] >political refugees. Conflict in Northern Ireland do have >political impact and it is very possible that some of the >refugee might have reasons to avoid British authorities >because they are targeted for political reasons. Britain Like Al Qaeda is now being targeted for political reasons. >The current legal system is the best we know to prosecute >criminals. You might dislike the particular US system Indeed. The legal system over here is hardly any better. Again, I think you are rather naive about the efficacity of the legal system. I hope for your sake that you never have recourse to the courts, unless you happen to be rich, in which case you may have access to the means to defend yourself or to prosecute a wrongdoer. [snip] For extreme deportation problems, there is always the possibility of a trial in a neutral country, such as that of the Libyans accused of bombing the plane that crashed on Lockerbie. >> > You must have mixed me with somebody else. >> >> No, it's called sarcasm. > >I doesn't seem like one. To be clear, I don't support any >kind of terrorism against civilians, neither Catholic nor >a little less publicized Protestant in Northern Ireland. >BTW, you never mentioned who supports protestant terrorists >and makes sure, they are far less publicized around the world. >(SARCASM returned :-)). I did mention the loyalist terrorists. They have yet to reach the fame of the IRA since they have only murdered perhaps a few hundred people, whilst the republicans have murdered several thousand. This is all drifting away from the already soundly off topic original line that we Europeans are a bunch of ingrates, that the Merkins are too good for us. A bientot Paul -- Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth) What happens if you have lead in your pants as well as lead in your pencil? ==== > I mentioned the UDF, UFF and so on. In many ways they are just as bad > as the Republican terrorists, though they haven't yet carried out > terror campaigns outside of NI. I don't see much difference between innocent victim of Protestant terror in Belfast or IRA innocent victim in London. The protestant terror of course, unlike IRA, consider Great Britain as an ally. Even terrorists have their logic. Why would they attack Britain ? In case of Catholics the sick logic of terror of course is extended to the occupants of the land - British and the terror is extended to this enemy too. > >Blaiming US goverment as being the most evil in the world > >is a stretch at least. > > Well the US troops didn't wait one second before interning the former Al > Qaeda members in Cuba without any legal process. First, what that has to do with IRA ? Second, of course it is legal. They are POW. Read the Geneva convention. Quite frankly they are in fact better treated, than they could be treated, because Geneva conention protects uniformed soldiers and is much harder on combat civilians allowing to treat them as spies or bandits using law of war. Speaking about Cuba, how many Cubans are hold by Castro without any legal process :-) ? Of course, the above rethorical question is not an exceuse to the alleged US evil. It is just a reminder for those who keep talking about US to be the most evil. > Your faith in the legal system is touching. Enlight me about the better system that you might belive. I do have an open mind for new ideas (sarcasm returned). > These cases are the ones that were uncovered. We will never > know how many guns were smuggled without anyone noticing, > or whether there were terrorists that went into hiding using false > identities who were never detected. IMHO the legal > system failed. What exactly do you propose instead ? Don't you think, that US goverment who arrests every Irish immigrant just in case would be much more evil ? And by the way, why stop on Irish ? Why not arrest every British immigrant too for potential risk of support for Protestant terror in Northern Ireland ? Maybe I'm naive according to your standards, but I consider legal sytem that protects people until proven guilty much less evil than any other in the world. > >political refugees. Conflict in Northern Ireland do have > >political impact and it is very possible that some of the > >refugee might have reasons to avoid British authorities > >because they are targeted for political reasons. Britain > > Like Al Qaeda is now being targeted for political reasons. To some extent you are probably right here. > For extreme deportation problems, there is always the possibility of a > trial in a neutral country, such as that of the Libyans accused of > bombing the plane that crashed on Lockerbie. Why do you need any other neutral country ? US is neutral in British - Irish conflict if not even biased toward Britain. Not only most of the American leaders are protestant and often anti Catholic but in both world wars US took British side, where Irleand was rather symphatetic to Germans. Quite frankly if I would be an Irish I would be much more concerned about neutrality of US. > I did mention the loyalist terrorists. They have yet to reach the fame > of the IRA since they have only murdered perhaps a few hundred people, > whilst the republicans have murdered several thousand. I agree, IRA is bigger and more dangerous. It does not have British army behind. > This is all drifting away from the already soundly off topic original > line that we Europeans are a bunch of ingrates, that the Merkins > are too good for us. Again, you are making things up. I never said that. Please, don't mix what I said with postings from the others. I answered the simple question posted by Alexandra, who's weapon is fueling the world terror. My simple answer to this was, that it is by far Soviet rifle AK47. Please, show me, which US weapon is even close to the popularity of this terror weapon across the world. Yes, you migh find some obscure local groups that had some acess to US or Israeli or German made weapons but this is far cry to the popularity and availability of Kalashnikov even in the crime rings acrosss US. > Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth) > What happens if you have lead in your pants as well as lead in your pencil? Jack ==== > > > I mentioned the UDF, UFF and so on. In many ways they are just as bad > > as the Republican terrorists, though they haven't yet carried out > > terror campaigns outside of NI. > > I don't see much difference between innocent victim of Protestant terror > in Belfast or IRA innocent victim in London. The loyalists, AFAIK, have never set off a bomb in a shopping centre without any warning, inside or outside of NI. If you're not a republican suspected of links with IRA/Sinn Fein, then the chances of getting shot by the loyalists are close to zero. On the other hand, if you are a 3 year old boy shopping in Warrington, then your chances are greater than zero of being blown up by the IRA. > The protestant terror of course, unlike IRA, consider Great Britain as an > ally. Even terrorists have their logic. Why would they attack Britain ? > In case of Catholics the sick logic of terror of course is extended > to the occupants of the land - British and the terror is extended to this > enemy too. IRA murders extend beyond the UK - soldiers have been murdered in Germany as well. As for the loyalists considering the UK an ally, that feeling is fast evaporating. Many now feel that they have been sold down the river, and that the Good Friday agreement is paving the way to hand them over to the Republic. There are even some that would fight for an independent Ulster rather than that. You should read some of the bonkers ravings of the likes of the DUP leader, the Rev. Ian Paisley. He sees papist conspiracies behind every tree. > > >Blaiming US goverment as being the most evil in the world > > >is a stretch at least. > > > > Well the US troops didn't wait one second before interning the former Al > > Qaeda members in Cuba without any legal process. > > First, what that has to do with IRA ? Uh, the IRA are terrorists that got the benefit of soft US laws. Al Qaeda are terrorists that got the benefit of no laws whatsoever, not even international laws. > Second, of course it is legal. They are POW. Read the Geneva > convention. Quite frankly they are in fact better treated, than they Bollocks. Hey, what's new? > could be treated, because Geneva conention protects uniformed > soldiers and is much harder on combat civilians allowing to treat combat civilians??? Make your mind up. Are they soldiers or civilians? Did the USA declare war on Afghanistan? No. So how can they be prisoners of war if there was no war? [snip] > It is just a reminder for those who keep talking > about US to be the most evil. Why are you standing up for Merkins that have no sense of proportion? Just because others and myself criticize certain actions by the USA doesn't mean that we think that they are evil. Perhaps you've lived in the States for too long? > > Your faith in the legal system is touching. > > Enlight me about the better system that you might belive. > I do have an open mind for new ideas (sarcasm returned). Does the state of the legal systems in countries other than the USA make any difference to whether the US system is a dismal failure or not? > > These cases are the ones that were uncovered. We will never > > know how many guns were smuggled without anyone noticing, > > or whether there were terrorists that went into hiding using false > > identities who were never detected. IMHO the legal > > system failed. > > What exactly do you propose instead ? > Don't you think, that US goverment who arrests every Irish > immigrant just in case would be much more evil ? And Well, if your principles were applied, then the IRA and the UK were at war. The UK should have invaded the USA since it was sheltering known terrorists, and forcefully repatriated these combat civilians. What utter nonsense! > by the way, why stop on Irish ? Why not arrest every British > immigrant too for potential risk of support for Protestant terror > in Northern Ireland ? Maybe I'm naive according to your > standards, but I consider legal sytem that protects people > until proven guilty much less evil than any other in the world. Yes, you are naive, and a hypocrite. > > For extreme deportation problems, there is always the possibility of a > > trial in a neutral country, such as that of the Libyans accused of > > bombing the plane that crashed on Lockerbie. > Why do you need any other neutral country ? Firstly, I think the US is partial. US politicians are afraid of alienating the phony Irish vote. Secondly, I was referring to Al Qaeda. If there is ever a need for trials, I think that they are more likely to get a fair hearing in The Hague than in a US court. > > I did mention the loyalist terrorists. They have yet to reach the fame > > of the IRA since they have only murdered perhaps a few hundred people, > > whilst the republicans have murdered several thousand. > > I agree, IRA is bigger and more dangerous. It does not have British > army behind. Are you trying to say that the IRA is more dangerous because thye don't have any connections with the Army (and RUC)? Or are you trying to say that the Army only defends the loyalists, and not the republicans? The latter is palpably false: the original reason why extra troops were sent to NI was to defend Catholics when the Protestants started counter-attacking when 'the troubles' started. > > This is all drifting away from the already soundly off topic original > > line that we Europeans are a bunch of ingrates, that the Merkins > > are too good for us. > > Again, you are making things up. I never said that. Please, don't mix Paul ==== > The loyalists, AFAIK, have never set off a bomb in a shopping centre > without any warning Interesting excuse for terror. Are you suggesting that with warning it is OK ? >, inside or outside of NI. If you're not a > republican suspected of links with IRA/Sinn Fein, then the chances of > getting shot by the loyalists are close to zero. And of course anybody suspected by protestant terrorist as IRA supporter is automatically guilty and execution excused ? You did not convinced me a bit. Innocent catholic Irish person from Belfast is for me as good as innocent protestant British from London. It is a shame that both sides are using terror. > On the other hand, if you are a 3 year old boy shopping in Warrington, > then your chances are > greater than zero of being blown up by the IRA. The 11 years old catholic children, that are attempting to just walk to school are of course catholic IRA supporters, I presume. Why is it, that protestant hate children walking to school ? Why are protestants organizing marches across catholic parts of the cities on purpose to enrage people and start riots ? Both sides are deeply involved in hate and terror. > IRA murders extend beyond the UK - soldiers have been murdered in > Germany as well. UK soldiers are not innocent civilians. UK soldiers are side in the conflict. UK soldiers are part of the occupying force of the originally Irish land. The were in the past often guilty of multiple deaths between catholic civilians of Northern Ireland. Europe should not use double standard. If Europe is considering Arafat as a freedom fighter who is justified by european politicians in his terror against Israeli army, then by the same token IRA fighting against uniformed British soldiers should be equally considered as a legitimate fight of freedom fighters (only against the armed forces of British Empire). In fact any partisan forces that are fighting against occupants are generally highly regarded by the western standards. Just recall partisans from the WWII. Unfortunately, just like Arafat (or protestants), IRA doesn't stop there and uses terror against civilians which is terrible. > As for the loyalists considering the UK an ally, that feeling is fast > evaporating. Many now feel that they have been sold down the river, > and that the Good Friday agreement is paving the way to hand them over > to the Republic. It would not be the first time, when Britain is returning freedom to the land they conquered in the days of the glorious British Empire and occupied for decades. Anyway I still consider Good Friday to be much better solution than Bloody Sunday. I wonder why you consider goverment that suppose to represent all sides that are living in Northern Irleand as something unfair ? > There are even some that would fight for an > independent Ulster rather than that. And how specifically they are going to fight and against whom ? > You should read some of the > bonkers ravings of the likes of the DUP leader, the Rev. Ian Paisley. > He sees papist conspiracies behind every tree. Sick people are everywhere. I'm sure that Northern Ireland have them too on both sides. > Uh, the IRA are terrorists that got the benefit of soft US laws. Al > Qaeda are terrorists that got the benefit of no laws whatsoever, not > even international laws. What international laws exactly were broken ? Could you list some of them here ? Specifically which Geneva convention law was broken and in what way ? > combat civilians??? Make your mind up. Are they soldiers or > civilians? US treat them as soldiers altough in my opinion they don't deserve this. > Did the USA declare war on Afghanistan? No. Wrong. We did against Taliban. There was ultimatum officially delivered. Why is it that you are so selective in your memory ? > So how can they be prisoners of war if there was no war? If there was no war, how did they get to Cuba ? > Just because others and myself criticize certain actions by the USA > doesn't mean that we think that they are evil. Perhaps you've lived in > the States for too long? Perhaps you have no idea about the subject you criticize. I still haven't found a single reasonable argument in your previous and current post to consider US as a bad country. I'm quite happy that I'm living here for too long. In fact I'm planning to stay much longer. > > > Your faith in the legal system is touching. > > > > Enlight me about the better system that you might belive. > > I do have an open mind for new ideas (sarcasm returned). > > Does the state of the legal systems in countries other than the USA > make any difference to whether the US system is a dismal failure or > not? There is no perfect legal system. If you think so, you are naive. I consider US system as quite good one, much better than most EU. The ones I knew in the past were significantly inferior. I don't deny that there might be better legal system in some other countries . This of course does not change my position, that the legal system is still is the best tool to solve disagreements between contries. Of course in order for legal system to work must be that both sides are recognizing each other laws. You don't seem to have high regard for our laws. Disregard for the other country laws is often the main cause to refuse extradiction of the criminal. > > What exactly do you propose instead ? > > Don't you think, that US goverment who arrests every Irish > > immigrant just in case would be much more evil ? And > > Well, if your principles were applied, then the IRA and the UK were at > war. The UK should have invaded the USA since it was sheltering known > terrorists, and forcefully repatriated these combat civilians. What > utter nonsense! > > by the way, why stop on Irish ? Why not arrest every British > > immigrant too for potential risk of support for Protestant terror > > in Northern Ireland ? Maybe I'm naive according to your > > standards, but I consider legal sytem that protects people > > until proven guilty much less evil than any other in the world. > > Yes, you are naive, and a hypocrite. Nope. I'm just responding sarcastically to your completely one sided vision of Irish problem and untrue accusations of US unfair policy toward proven terrorist from IRA. You failed to prove that there is a single IRA terrorist that is sheltered purposedly by the US goverment. You also failed to prove, that British goverment does not have a legal tools to leagly seek and obtain from US extradiction of any criminal they wish. Of course, demands of deporting innocent (until prooven guilty) Irish catholics only because you hate them would not be considered as reasonable and legitimate reason to deport the person. You might consider this postion as being naive. > > Why do you need any other neutral country ? > > Firstly, I think the US is partial. US politicians are afraid of > alienating the phony Irish vote. Secondly, I was referring to Al > Qaeda. If there is ever a need for trials, I think that they are more > likely to get a fair hearing in The Hague than in a US court. Yeah, I fully agree with you. I also suggest that IRA and protestant terrorists from Northern Irleand should have a trial in Zimbabwe for the sake of fairness. > Are you trying to say that the IRA is more dangerous because thye > don't have any connections with the Army (and RUC)? Or are you trying > to say that the Army only defends the loyalists, and not the > republicans? The latter is palpably false: the original reason why > extra troops were sent to NI was to defend Catholics when the > Protestants started counter-attacking when 'the troubles' started. British Army managed to kill thousnads of catholics and only hundreds of protestants in Northern Irleand. One should also not forget, that it is the British Army who is occupying the Irish land. Can't you read my original post ? You responded to my post, not to somebody else. > > Paul Jack ==== > > > The loyalists, AFAIK, have never set off a bomb in a shopping centre > > without any warning > > Interesting excuse for terror. Are you suggesting that with warning it is OK ? There is no excuse on either side. With warning, it is possible to claim that you aren't targeting civilians, but are doing economic damage and, well, spreading terrror. Search the web for Harrods and Arndale Centre in conjunction with bombs and the IRA. > >, inside or outside of NI. If you're not a > > republican suspected of links with IRA/Sinn Fein, then the chances of > > getting shot by the loyalists are close to zero. > > And of course anybody suspected by protestant terrorist as IRA > supporter is automatically guilty and execution excused ? Duh, no, stupid. > > On the other hand, if you are a 3 year old boy shopping in Warrington, > > then your chances are > > greater than zero of being blown up by the IRA. > > The 11 years old catholic children, that are attempting to just walk > to school are of course catholic IRA supporters, I presume. Were they blown up without warning? > Why is it, that protestant hate children walking to school ? Because they are stupid. > Why are protestants organizing marches across catholic parts of > the cities on purpose to enrage people and start riots ? I can see that you're now doing a bit of homework. That's right, just because some blokes in bowler hats and orange sashes go marching by banging drums, the Catholics are forced against their wills to throw petrol bombs at them. They could just ignore them. In any case, it's the evil imperial police/army that stop the orangemen marching. > Both sides are deeply involved in hate and terror. You're learning. > > IRA murders extend beyond the UK - soldiers have been murdered in > > Germany as well. > > UK soldiers are not innocent civilians. UK soldiers are side in the Duh. OK, this means that Al Qaeda are perfectly justified in killing US soldiers. How dumb are you? > conflict. UK soldiers are part of the occupying force of the originally Irish Duh, right, the UK really enjoys paying millions of pounds a year trying to prevent the two sides from killing each other. It is all part of the enormous British empire. I believe that some of the less popular monuments (border warchtowers) have now been dismantled. > land. The were in the past often guilty of multiple deaths between > catholic civilians of Northern Ireland. Europe should not use double Well, the evil imperial forces of oppression have killed some protestants as well. Generally the people that the police/army shot were doing something - rioting, not stopping at a roadblock, carrying arms. There are exceptions. > standard. If Europe is considering Arafat as a freedom fighter who is I, and many others, don't. > justified by european politicians in his terror against Israeli army, then Again, I don't think either side is justified. > by the same token IRA fighting against uniformed British soldiers should > be equally considered as a legitimate fight of freedom fighters (only Bollocks. If the IRA had the guts to put on uniforms and fight in a battlefield, I'd call that a legitimate fight. Setting off timebombs, shooting policemen off service, firing mortars at police stations, that is all cowardly terrorism. Ditto for the others. > against the armed forces of British Empire). The Empire ended long ago. > > As for the loyalists considering the UK an ally, that feeling is fast > > evaporating. Many now feel that they have been sold down the river, > > and that the Good Friday agreement is paving the way to hand them over > > to the Republic. > It would not be the first time, when Britain is returning freedom to the > land they conquered in the days of the glorious British Empire and So when are the Merkins going to fuck off back to Europe and give the USA back to the natives? At about the same time as the potato famine, weren't the Merkins putting the last of the natives into reservations and signing treaties that they never honoured? Funny that, when the British do it, they are an evil oppressive Empire, when the Merkins do it, they are above criticism. > occupied for decades. Anyway I still consider Good Friday to be much Ireland was legally made part of the UK in 1800. The split between the Republic and Ulster happened in 1922. However, Ireland had been controlled from London for a lot lot longer than that. The Normans had landed in Ireland centuries before Columbus 'discovered' the New World. You need to do a bit more homework. > better solution than Bloody Sunday. I wonder why you consider > goverment that suppose to represent all sides that are living in > Northern Irleand as something unfair ? Have you never heard of the word democracy? I'll try to explain the GFA in Merkin terms. On one side you have the Republican party and the Libertarians (=UUP and DUP). Between them, they would always have a majority (which they have and would abuse quite a lot), but neither one manages to have an outright majority. Against them you have the Democrats and the Greens (=SDLP and Sinn Fein). Imagine also that the leader and deputy of the Greens are a convicted terrorist and an admitted terrorist. Even though the Republicans and Libertarians win the election, they are forced to form a government in coallition with the Democrats and Greens. No only that, but every time that Congress has a vote, one side cannot win the vote unless the majority of the other side also agrees. would be to see Ralph Nader as Secretary of State for Health after Bush won? > > There are even some that would fight for an > > independent Ulster rather than that. > > And how specifically they are going to fight and against whom ? The usual mixture of politics and terror, against the Republicans and perhaps the British as well. > > You should read some of the > > bonkers ravings of the likes of the DUP leader, the Rev. Ian Paisley. > > He sees papist conspiracies behind every tree. > > Sick people are everywhere. I'm sure that Northern Ireland have > them too on both sides. Indeed. > > Did the USA declare war on Afghanistan? No. > > Wrong. We did against Taliban. There was ultimatum officially > delivered. Why is it that you are so selective in your memory ? Since when can a state declare war on a group of people. That's only for press conferences. An ultimatum is not a declaration of war between two nations. > > Just because others and myself criticize certain actions by the USA > > doesn't mean that we think that they are evil. Perhaps you've lived in > > the States for too long? > Perhaps you have no idea about the subject you criticize. > I still haven't found a single reasonable argument in your previous and > current post to consider US as a bad country. I'm quite happy that I'm living > here for too long. In fact I'm planning to stay much longer. All is becoming clear. You're a wannabe Merkin. > > Well, if your principles were applied, then the IRA and the UK were at > > war. The UK should have invaded the USA since it was sheltering known > > terrorists, and forcefully repatriated these combat civilians. What > > utter nonsense! No reply to this point. Hmmm. > > > by the way, why stop on Irish ? Why not arrest every British > > > immigrant too for potential risk of support for Protestant terror > > > in Northern Ireland ? Maybe I'm naive according to your > > > standards, but I consider legal sytem that protects people > > > until proven guilty much less evil than any other in the world. > > > > Yes, you are naive, and a hypocrite. > > Nope. I'm just responding sarcastically to your completely one sided > vision of Irish problem and untrue accusations of US unfair policy Down with the Taigues, bring back internment. > toward proven terrorist from IRA. You failed to prove that there is a > single IRA terrorist that is sheltered purposedly by the US goverment. > You also failed to prove, that British goverment does not have a > legal tools to leagly seek and obtain from US extradiction of any > criminal they wish. You've got that the wrong way round. It isn't the US government that wanted to shelter terrorists, but the terrorists that wanted shelter in the USA. Do you really believe that justice is done when a terrorist avoids deportation on legal grounds? Or is it only when those legal grounds are in the USA? > Of course, demands of deporting innocent (until prooven guilty) Irish > catholics only because you hate them would not be considered as > reasonable and legitimate reason to deport the person. It's obvious to me that the UK government would not bother to run up large legal expenses on cases that it did not consider that it had a reasonable chance of winning. > > Are you trying to say that the IRA is more dangerous because thye > > don't have any connections with the Army (and RUC)? Or are you trying > > to say that the Army only defends the loyalists, and not the > > republicans? The latter is palpably false: the original reason why > > extra troops were sent to NI was to defend Catholics when the > > Protestants started counter-attacking when 'the troubles' started. > British Army managed to kill thousnads of catholics and only hundreds of > protestants in Northern Irleand. One should also not forget, that it is > the British Army who is occupying the Irish land. The army (and RUC) killed ~350. I don't know the proportions of catholics and protestants. That's compared to ~1000 killed by the loyalist paramilitaties and ~2500 killed by the republicans. The majority of the population of Northern Ireland wish to remain part of the UK. > > Can't you read my original post ? You responded to my post, > not to somebody else. I didn't change the subject line. Paul ==== > British Army managed to kill thousnads of catholics and only hundreds of > protestants in Northern Irleand. No they haven't. A small number of people in Northern Ireland have died due to the Army in Northern Ireland. They are essentially there for security purposes, and due to the lower threat at present they are not as visible. Not every soldier who has served in Northern Ireland has been good at his/her job and some were partisan. But in every Army in the world there are people not fit for the job. Every Police Force in the world has bad officers. The U.S. has its fair share too. Around 3000 people have been killed throughout Northern Ireland's troubles, nearly all of these by the Provisional IRA and Loyalist Paramilitaries. > One should also not forget, that it is > the British Army who is occupying the Irish land. The Army are doing no such thing. The majority of people in Northen Ireland want to stay part of the UK. If that changes in the future (as it may well) then a United Ireland will come about. The British Government has stated this many times - indeed under the Good Friday Agreement it is obliged to call a referendum if it believes a majority may be in favour of a United Ireland. A majority is certainly not in favour at the moment. Northern Ireland is, geographically, part of the island of Ireland and it is important to recognise that fact. Cross-border bodies exist to bring about co-operation between the two parts of the island. But it is also important to accept the wishes of the majority - both now and in the future. To be honest, I don't think the government in the Republic (South) of Ireland want a United Ireland - it would be too much hassle and very expensive for them and they would have to deal with a lot of people who would be quite opposed to being ruled from Dublin. The current situation where there is a devolved power-sharing assembly (once it gets going again) with cross-border bodies is the best for NI, recognising both aspirations. ==== > > British Army managed to kill thousnads of catholics and only hundreds of > > protestants in Northern Irleand. > > No they haven't. A small number of people in Northern Ireland have > died due to the Army in Northern Ireland. They are essentially there > for security purposes, and due to the lower threat at present they are > not as visible. You haven't noticed . This was paraphrased response to the claim of thousnads of IRA victims versus handfull of protestant terror victims. You seem to be knowlegable about this. How many exactly people died due to the IRA terror versus protestant terror ? I'm really asking for confirmed numbers that you might have from the source that is worth trust, not for over or under estimated numbers given by people that are strongly involved with one or the other side of the conflict. > Not every soldier who has served in Northern Ireland has been good at > his/her job and some were partisan. But in every Army in the world > there are people not fit for the job. Every Police Force in the world > has bad officers. The U.S. has its fair share too. Of course. Only naive people see evil on one side. > > One should also not forget, that it is > > the British Army who is occupying the Irish land. > > The Army are doing no such thing. This is the price Britain pay for it's former colonial policies. You can't deny that originally it was conquerred part of the Irish kingdom. Of course this had happend long time ago, and the people who are living there now have more common with the new ruler than the old one. But it is not the first time, that in order to maintain order in the conquerred land, British Army has to be used. It is especially strange that it has to be used on the land that is not even considered a colony, but part of the original United Kingdom. US law does not allow to use armed forces in policing action on the US soil exactly because army is trained to kill, not to maintian law and order. Only National Guard is allowed to be used per special governors order in each state if the local police is incapable to maintain order. Last time we had such situation, was during riots in the Vietnam era. Anyway, why do you need paratroopers - soldiers of the special forces trained to kill efficiently in order to control those who are in fact civilians and citizens of your own country ? Are those catholic civilians bunch of idiots that just live for blood, or maybee they are in fact opressed and frustrated people denied opportunities by the religious majority ? I don't know the answer to that question, but it seem strange, that US, which is much more diversified racially and culturally needed National Guard intervention only several times in the last century and the intervention itself was lasting only for a couple of weeks maximum, whenre the British Army seem to be the only force capable to maintain semi - order for decades in Northern Ireland. > The majority of people in Northen > Ireland want to stay part of the UK. If that changes in the future (as > it may well) then a United Ireland will come about. Hopefully without new terror, this time on the opposite side. Or maybe common EU idea will win over nationalistic trends in the future and the borders will become mostly just lines on the map like it is so succesfull between the states in US. Clearly language should not be a barrier :-) > The British Government has stated this many times - indeed under > the Good Friday Agreement it is obliged to call a referendum if it > believes a majority may be in favour of a United Ireland. A majority > is certainly not in favour at the moment. As you could notice, my opponent in this discussion highly dislikes the Good Friday Agreement, so the chances, that protestants will obey it, are rather slim. But I agree with you, that Good Friday agreement (as long as it is allowed to last) is much better solution than any kind of terror on either side or militarly enforced peace that leads pretty much nowhere. > Northern Ireland is, geographically, part of the island of Ireland and > it is important to recognise that fact. Cross-border bodies exist to > bring about co-operation between the two parts of the island. > > But it is also important to accept the wishes of the majority - both > now and in the future. I just wonder why is it that the same people that do not differ by color of the skin, language, probably most of the culture etc, cannot live together. I know religion is a powerfull divider in some cases, but it seems strange that it is so strong in Northern Ireland. Everywhere else protestants live peacfully next to catholics (Germany, Benelux, USA or even the Irish Republic itself). Is it because majority simply overuse their position and deny their opponents equal chances ? I'm sure, that decades of hate are hard to fix overnight and probably especially hard for British who are probably considered by some as outsiders. > To be honest, I don't think the government in the Republic (South) of > Ireland want a United Ireland - it would be too much hassle and very > expensive for them and they would have to deal with a lot of people > who would be quite opposed to being ruled from Dublin. > > The current situation where there is a devolved power-sharing assembly > (once it gets going again) with cross-border bodies is the best for > NI, recognising both aspirations. I agree with most of what you said and admire your civilized style of discussion. I wonder, if the current situation as you stated in the last sentence above has a chance to last ? What I've heard recently, is that Sinn Fein was involved in spying scandal, and the Good Friday goverment has already fallen apart. Is this the end of hope ? Jack ==== > How many exactly people died > due to the IRA terror versus protestant terror ? I'm really asking for > confirmed numbers that you might have from the source that is worth trust, > not for over or under estimated numbers given by people that are strongly > involved with one or the other side of the conflict. I can't find any figures at the moment - I *believe* that the IRA killed about twice as many as the loyalists (protestants as you call them) but I don't have actual figures. But whoever clocked up the higher figure, neither side was legitimate in what it did. > You can't deny that originally it was conquerred part of the Irish > kingdom. Ah, but that is the thing. There was no united Irish Kingdom. Ireland was made up of several Kingdoms - the areas of these changed over time and for a long time the Kingdom of Dalriada stretched between Scotland and much of what is now Northern Ireland. In fact, the Scottish race actually comes from the north of Ireland. They were known as Scotti or Scots, not Irish and when they went across the Irish seain the 5th Centuary or so, the land was named Scotland after them. Over a thousand years later their decendents came back to Ireland. There was little sense of an Irish identity before British rule - Ireland was only truly united when it was all British. There was a high-King of Ireland, but at no time could Ireland be described as an independent Nation State. But that does not excuse what happened in the past. And if there were no wars then England would still be split up into many Kingdoms too. Look what happened to the original population of the United States. They were put on reservations. > But it is not the first time, that in order to > maintain order in the conquerred land But what is the Conquered land? No-one thinks of NI like that. Using that logic, the U.S.A. is a conquered land. A large part of the world was conquered by somebody at some time. Is the north of England conquered land because 1000 years ago it was under a different King from the south of England? > Are those catholic civilians bunch of idiots that just live for blood, > or maybee they are in fact opressed and frustrated people > denied opportunities by the religious majority ? Neither, really. Yes, there was discrimination against Catholics in the past, but not now. There is very strict fair employment legislation. Recruitment to the Police is done on a 50/50 basis even though the Catholics are in a minority. This, though, is to correct the current imbalance in the force. And do rememeber that a small percentage of Catholics and a small percentage of Protestants are involved in terrorism. They make life bad for the rest of us. > whenre the British Army seem to be > the only force capable to maintain semi - order for decades > in Northern Ireland. I don't think the Police could have coped with the terrorist threat as well on their own. > Or maybe common EU idea will win over nationalistic trends > in the future and the borders will become mostly just lines on > the map like it is so succesfull between the states in US. IMHO I hope it will - maybe we shoudn't be just as integrated as the U.S. just yet, but the EU has a role to play. > As you could notice, my opponent in this discussion highly dislikes > the Good Friday Agreement, so the chances, that protestants will > obey it, are rather slim. I'm not sure what there is to obey, really. It is just a system of government. But because of recent events, there is no trust, and it will be very difficult to bring that trust back. And you can't ignore the Unionists who are anti-Agreement. They have a democratic right too. > I just wonder why is it that the same people that do not differ by > color of the skin, language, probably most of the culture etc, > cannot live together. It is really difficult to explain. Living the first 22 years of my life there hasn't made it easy for me either. > I agree with most of what you said and admire your civilized style of > discussion. find that many people from outside NI think they know everything and will not listen to another opinion. You are obviously nothing like that. >Is this the end of hope ? No it isn't. After the spying scandal and everything else it will be difficult, but it will sort itself out. I have learned not to be surprised by anything that happens in Northern Ireland any more. If we look back 10 years, we have come a long way. ==== > But whoever clocked up the higher figure, neither side was legitimate > in what it did. Of course. That was my point too. The terror should be exposed everywhere and never ever excused. The world (at least outside of the Britain) seem to focus on IRA because of clocking the higher number, or maybee by being more visible to the ousiders, but the whole circle of terror is an endless process of revenge that is fueled by the acts of a few on both sides and cannot be broken by blaiming just one side. > Ah, but that is the thing. There was no united Irish Kingdom. Ireland > was made up of several Kingdoms ... Wow ! Big thanks. That was really interesting and educational. I did not know, that Scotts came from Ireland. It always thought, that similar music, clothes etc were just a Celtic coincidence. > Look what happened to the original population of the United States. > They were put on reservations. I'm not going to defend US here. That was a one of the low points in US history. > But what is the Conquered land? No-one thinks of NI like that. Using > that logic, the U.S.A. is a conquered land. A large part of the world > was conquered by somebody at some time. Is the north of England > conquered land because 1000 years ago it was under a different King > from the south of England? Conquerred is the right word here. Of course USA is a conquerred land. That is why native population of USA is mostly living in reservations. The whole moral dimension of conquerring the land is of course different today, than it was in the past. All I meant by that statement, was, that there are unforseen originally consequences and prices to pay when one power wins the land over the other. The whole enterprise might be succesfull, like for example you mentioned unification of the north and south England or might lead to long chain of conflicts, like attempts by Germans to conquer slavic lands that led to thousand years of conflict, or similarily on the west German - Franco conflict. > And do rememeber that a small percentage of Catholics and a small > percentage of Protestants are involved in terrorism. They make life > bad for the rest of us. That is a typical pattern. I guess, there is similar discrepancy between Palestinians, where the few involved in terror make life difficult for entire Palestinian population. > I don't think the Police could have coped with the terrorist threat as > well on their own. I don't see anything wrong if the goverment must use army to get a hold on the situation that went badly out of control. Those could be riots, some organised bandits or hulligans. What I'm struglling with, is the situation, where the use of armed forces becomes the permanent solution to the issue. Long term use of armed forces by the goverment seem rather like the admission of political defeat and lack of ideas how to fix the problem. I just don't think it is helpfull either in Israel or Northern Ireland case. It fixes the effects of the sickness but is does not attempt to cure it. > IMHO I hope it will - maybe we shoudn't be just as > integrated as the U.S. just yet, but the EU has a role to play. I truly hope so. IMHO US as great as I belive it is, do need a counterbalancing oponnent on the world scene (hopefully civilized and democratic, not a dangerous dicatorship like communists were). It is better for the world, when ideas come from different sources and can be compared and weighted against to create more or less world concensuss. Since the fall of Soviets US is the only alone power that is expected to fix the world, or hated exactly for this depending who you talk to. The absolute power that US is entertaining politics. In Europe not a single country today can match the economical power or political influence of US around the world. Only united Europe is at least a match or in some cases stronger than US entity and what is more important it seems to have much more open and democratic philosophy than China considered by many as US next opponent. > I'm not sure what there is to obey, really. It is just a > system of government. But because of recent events, there > is no trust, and it will be very difficult to bring that > trust back. And you can't ignore the Unionists who are > anti-Agreement. They have a democratic right too. Democracy has its limits. You can imagine theoretical case, where some democratic society might choose to reinstate slavery over minority. Is this possible ? the majority become a law which we consder highly immoral today. US itself is struggling with balancing the rule of majority over moral fairness in the society. There is no secret that in the past history of US it was WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) who ruled this country any anobody outside this circle had no chance. John Kennedy was the first president who broke the rule. What I'm trying to say, is that catholic minority in Northern Ireland is a fact that has be dealt with appropriately. If the Protestant majority, however democratically, will not trust them by the virtue of balanced representation - political power sharing it will lead to the spiral of terror act and similar revenge response. > No it isn't. After the spying scandal and everything > else it will be difficult, but it will sort itself out. > I have learned not to be surprised by anything that > happens in Northern Ireland any more. If we > look back 10 years, we have come a long way. I wish, the nonsense of terror will end and you will live in a peacefull place. Jack ==== > I wish, the nonsense of terror will end and you will > live in a peacefull place. > realise is that Northern Ireland is a lot safer than part of America. The crime rate is much lower. But terrorism seems to be glamourous and gets more worldwide attention. ==== > The loyalists, AFAIK, have never set off a bomb in a shopping centre > without any warning, inside or outside of NI. If you're not a > republican suspected of links with IRA/Sinn Fein, then the chances of > getting shot by the loyalists are close to zero. On the other hand, if > you are a 3 year old boy shopping in Warrington, then your chances are > greater than zero of being blown up by the IRA. Actually the Loyalists have not only attacked a large number of innocent Nationalists, but they have often done so with the help of the British security forces as can be seen from the links below: http://www.britcollusion.cjb.net/ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/northern_ireland/1465494.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/290788.stm http://www.guardian.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4433436,00.html http://www.geocities.com/collusion2000_1999/rosemary11.html http://www.iol.ie/~pfc/weekly/inu11mar99.htm http://www.relativesforjustice.com/publications/shankill_uda.htm http://www.irisheye.com/0501_news/iais0502.html http://www.hrw.org/wr2k2/europe21.html http://politics.guardian.co.uk/northernirelandassembly/story/0,9061,741088,0 0.html ==== > > The loyalists, AFAIK, have never set off a bomb in a shopping centre > > without any warning, inside or outside of NI. If you're not a > > republican suspected of links with IRA/Sinn Fein, then the chances of > > getting shot by the loyalists are close to zero. On the other hand, if > > you are a 3 year old boy shopping in Warrington, then your chances are > > greater than zero of being blown up by the IRA. > Actually the Loyalists have not only attacked a large number of > innocent Nationalists, but they have often done so with the help of > the British security forces as can be seen from the links below: > > http://www.britcollusion.cjb.net/ That sounds like such an impartial site, I don't think I'll bother with that one (and a few of the others as well). There are plenty of equally impartial loyalist sites - you shouldn't believe everything you read, especially on the web. The World Socialist Web Site should go down a treat with the Merkins. The Beeb and the Grauniad sites didn't say anything I didn't know already. Like I said, the Loyalists generally attacked people suspected of IRA links in NI. Sometimes the suspicions were unfounded, sometimes they shot the wrong person, sometimes it was a bystander and I think even the police occasionally. The Republicans attacked the army, police, loyalist paramilitaries but also had bombing campaigns on the mainland and against army bases on the continent. Although for most of the bombing campaigns the aim was more to cause economic damage and sow fear (since the IRA would usually phone in a warning before the bomb went off), that wasn't always the case. Timebombs are more dangerous to bystanders than guns. I'm a bit pessimistic for the future though. The Republican community is overwhelmingly behind the Good Friday agreement, whilst the Unionists are very much divided. If one day the IRA does more or less completely disarm, I don't think that there will be complete peace, as there will be Loyalists that will take up the opposite struggle of the IRA. On top of all that, there are all the problems of protectionism and general mafia-like gangsterism. A+ Paul ==== > Like I said, the Loyalists generally attacked people suspected of IRA > links in NI. Sometimes the suspicions were unfounded, sometimes they > shot the wrong person, sometimes it was a bystander and I think even > the police occasionally. And tit-for-tat reprisals. A+ Paul ==== > No, opposing our countries ideas and policies of not allowing > dictators have weapons of mass destruction does not mean that you are > US bashing, it just means you have nothing to better to do with your > head other than to use it to keep your ears apart. While having ten times the mass destruction potential of Iraq (like the U.S. does) and following the cowboy named Bush is a very intelligent thing to do. > If you dont want > our help or money or support, let us know. Help the U.S. to do what? Demonstrate another time that it plays the role of the interplanetary cop? > Next time that a country > somewhere on the other side of the world has a repressive government > that is killing off its own citizens let the armed forces of the UEN > (united European Nations) send their troops in to fix the problem. Europe has suffered much too much destruction and starts learning that other ways than wars must be followed. When you and your 300 years of history grow up, then you *will* understand. > I > feel that for all the USA does for other countries and the UN and NATO > with forces and support and financial backing that we should have a > larger vote. Keep your forces and financial banking for yourself. I can live without it. > Not the euphoric (heavy sarcasm), everyones votes count > as equals, that we have now. Rather, the one who brings the most to > the table, thereby the most to loose, or gain, should be the one with > the biggest vote. Then let the cowboy bring on the table what his evidence for the non-allowed weapons of Iraq is. > I personally am for peace, Yes, I believe you. > I had no problems with > Muslims or any other foriegn nationals before 9/11. You did! But you didn't know. How much do you know about those people? Did you care understand their fears? Has your teacher told you anything about their culture? Did you ever think that your luxury is perhaps based on the misery of somebody in the middle east? Did your finacial/political wizards tell you that the first world is f**cking the lives of the people in the third world? Until you have the same fear if you are still alive tomorrow, you can't understand anything! > I still have no > problems with foriegn nationals, I go to school with them everyday. > But if or when they raise up arms against America and attack and shout > death to America and strike first, Since decades the U.S. and the whole world is betraying the arabic world and kicking their rights like nothing. And you say first strike? > then let them have their just > rewards! You also will have your reward. Those people don't have anything to lose, but you do! They are not afraid of your bombing, but you are afraid to die. So go on preaching about your military powers, but when the next terror wave hits you, then don't stand in front of the camera of your disneyland news agency, showing how sad you are. If you were sad, you wouldn't agree with Bush for a second. > And when they feel the need to bring the attack to your > homefront in Europe give us a call. It is not a coinsidence that Europe was not attacked. Quite contrary to Bush's empty statements the wrath of the arabs has not as target the whole western world but only the U.S. I don't fell threatened by Iraq or any other arabic country. But if you go on this way, you should be afraid! You should be very afraid! > I think we might have a few > Liberty ships that we can patch up and send you. Keep your navy, your army and air force for yourself. I never asked for that. > But lets put this aside for now. I still need help with my new > calculator. You will ask for help people that have nothing to better to do with their head other than to use it to keep your ears apart? No greetings this time, too angry. Nick. ==== > No greetings this time, too angry. > Nick. Nick, Sorry that you are angry, but why does allowing every tom dick and harry have weapons of mass destruction sound acceptable to you. Granted that the US does have tons more firepower than the rest of the world. But, I would rather see it in the hands of a country that does not allow a leader to do everything that he wants (almost, but not everything), than in the hands of a leader who remains in power by killing off citizens who oppose him. Does Saddam have weapons like these. I dont know, but when he wont allow UN inspectors to do a thorough search to find out, what do you go by. Play nice and say, well, he probably isnt hiding anything or Well, he did start a war of aggresion, and he has gassed some of his own countrymen, he probably has these weapons in his control. And then do something about that. Saddam has broken the terms and limits set at the end of the Gulf War concerning weapons. Why should someone like this be allowed to remain in power? Does it bother you at all that he might use them on you or your countrymen? Peace is a wonderful thing, but until the world is ready to live peacefully there are times when war is necessary to defend your peace, your lives, your freedom, and your family. Chiao, Stan oh, and about the help with the calculator, I may disagree with your political views, and resort to a little trash talking, but if you need help with your car, do you really worry about which way the mechanic voted during the last election, or rather if he is a good mechanic and will he be able to fix your car. ==== > > No greetings this time, too angry. > > Nick. > > Nick, > Sorry that you are angry, but why does allowing every tom dick and > harry have weapons of mass destruction sound acceptable to you. Sorry, I was just too charged to continue and so I just said that I am angry. Actually, I was angry about that guy who (again) tells this group that I am a U.S. hater. You see, I have been already characterized a terrorist in this group. > Granted that the US does have tons more firepower than the rest of the > world. But, I would rather see it in the hands of a country that does > not allow a leader to do everything that he wants (almost, but not > everything), than in the hands of a leader who remains in power by > killing off citizens who oppose him. Does Saddam have weapons like > these. I dont know, but when he wont allow UN inspectors to do a > thorough search to find out, what do you go by. Play nice and say, > well, he probably isnt hiding anything or Well, he did start a war > of aggresion, and he has gassed some of his own countrymen, he > probably has these weapons in his control. And then do something > about that. Saddam has broken the terms and limits set at the end of > the Gulf War concerning weapons. Why should someone like this be > allowed to remain in power? Does it bother you at all that he might > use them on you or your countrymen? Peace is a wonderful thing, but > until the world is ready to live peacefully there are times when war > is necessary to defend your peace, your lives, your freedom, and your > family. No, no, Stan! The possession of such machinery of death is for me unacceptable, regardless of who's having them. Since years (decades) we hear the same and the same things regarding wars. Every government promises that this will be the last war and after this we are going to have peace. Now, from what I have seen until now, I don't get the impression that any government really worked for peace after the war ten years ago, after the war 5 years, 2 years, 1 year ago, (numbers of years are only for demonstration here), and so I just trust governments less and less. So, especially because it happens that the U.S. government has most power in its hand, I trust it less than anybody else. That's all. > Chiao, > Stan > oh, and about the help with the calculator, I may disagree with your > political views, and resort to a little trash talking, but if you need > help with your car, do you really worry about which way the mechanic > voted during the last election, or rather if he is a good mechanic and > will he be able to fix your car. I would expect that he/she who represents a country would have at least the general education that allows correct, yet understandable formulation of what must be said. When a president says things like they missunderestimated me or will the highways of the internet become more less in the future I can hardly get the impression of someone who is educated/qualified enough to lead a whole country. This of course is not a proviledge of Mr Bush. Mr Kohl has been some times even better. Greetings, Nick. ==== ==== It's called 'WriteRight / Fellowes Micro-Thin screen protectors'. They're intended for use with PDA's. If you manage to apply them without dust or airbubbles underneath it (possible after some practice / strategic approach) it looks quite well. There are, however, some cons: first of all the price. With 18 euros for 12 pieces I don't consider them to be cheap. Second, because they're designed to be used with a PDA it has a special structure that allows the touch screen to keep functioning. It pixelizes the screen a little (almost unnoticeable) and it seems to produce some static electricity when you rub it a while (you can see that some parts of the statusline become 'activated'). I can't really say that it removes reflections. But maybe it actually does, I simply haven't seen my screen without the sheet long enough to give a proper opinion on this. If you're looking for something to protect the screen, you might have a look at it. Hope this helps, Walter. koyote schreef in bericht > What do you use for a screen cover? > > I have one starting with ID01, and I don't think its bad. It is much > better than the old one I got first. No rainbow effects, the part of the > screencover that's not under the protective sheet I sticked on it seems to > be scratch resistant. I haven't seen a Chinese one, but I think this only > goes for older ones. But I might be wrong. > -- > while E < ==== However, I am in exact mode and degree mode. I type in sin(60) and get : sin(60). It does not give me SQRT (3)/2. Jon ==== > However, I am in exact mode and degree mode. I type in sin(60) and > get : sin(60). It does not give me SQRT (3)/2. Strange! However, if that is the case then try CASCFG and give it another try. Good luck! Diego ==== > However, I am in exact mode and degree mode. I type in sin(60) and > get : sin(60). It does not give me SQRT (3)/2. Strange! > However, if that is the case then try CASCFG and give it another try. > and don't forget to change to DEG-mode again. 'CASCFG' will set the calc back to RAD-mode. Roman > Good luck! > Diego > ==== > However, I am in exact mode and degree mode. I type in sin(60) and > get : sin(60). It does not give me SQRT (3)/2. You need to DO something with 'SIN(60)' to change it - merely entering it won't change it now, will it? ==== > To change from degree to radians (convert 60Á to PI/3) you can use as an > example: << PI * 180 / EVAL >>. Attach this to a softkey. Or use the built-in command D->R. > To change from radians to degrees you cans use: << 180 * PI / EVAL >>. Or use the built-in command R->D. ==== -- ================================================ BELLANTONE MAURIZIO - IT consultant, free programmer Via del Progresso 16 15047 SPINETTA MARENGO (AL) - ITALY ================================================ ==== Try Numerical Recipies... The book is very comprehensive and might have a lot of information on numerical computation... > -- > ================================================ > BELLANTONE MAURIZIO - IT consultant, free programmer > Via del Progresso 16 > 15047 SPINETTA MARENGO (AL) - ITALY > ================================================ ==== You should try: FPTR XEQ>ARRY (just from memory) > :: > %2 %3 %4 %5 { %2 %2 } ^XEQ>ARRY > ; but it doesn't work. > Alban. ==== thank you but this doesn't seem to work neither. Alban. > > You should try: FPTR XEQ>ARRY (just from memory) > ==== This should be an FAQ by now? Not all versions of extable compiled FPTRs correctly (has this been fixed?) Meanwhile, a complete list of supported and unsupported points is available in suprom49.a which comes with the HP49 sysrpltools kit. meanwhile use FPTR 6 17F for XEQ>ARRY Dennis ==== Take a look at http://www.saltire.com/xpander.html boris > In message <3CECB1E5.FC81C793@pallas.com>, >Not really. But thought of many times. I think taking a Palm or Visor >and adding a decent calculator style keyboard should be a reasonable >way. > Close, but there's a better way... >Rewriting all the numeric and algebraic stuff in portable C code and >making nice interfaces to the hardware dependant parts (display, >keyboard and I/O) is a huge amount of work. There will be no time left >to solder the selfmade calc from crap parts. > ...indeed... >And after all you need a installed base of compatible hardware to get >the open source development of your calculator software going! What is the biggest installed base of mobile, handheld units the world > over? Answer: mobile phones. You should write your calc in Java and then you can run it on the > Java-enabled mobile phones that are now springing up. No need to worry about IR - just SMS your calculation to a friend. Got > GPRS? Then just open up a TCP/IP connection and send it directly. Port > 18512 is HP in ascii so maybe we should reserve it now? -- > Bruce Horrocks > Hampshire > England > bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== > a few things you should try: > > 1) Reset your calc with a paperclip (there is a hole on the back of the > calc) > if it fails .. > 2) try to reset with [ON]&[F4] -Q and press the backspace-key while > rebooting (this way an eventually broken lib won't be attached, Don't forget > to delete the broken libs) > if it fails .. > 3) Reset your calc with [ON]&[F1]&[F6] > if it fails .. > 3) Download the OS again > if it fails .. > 4) If you don't have acces to the download menu anymore use P0erase > 5) Install the OS again > if it fails .. > 6) I just had to a few weeks ago to erase bank 8-15 (Port 2) manually to > make my calc work again (My calc was in some kind of infinte loop). You can > do this in the download-menu. > > if nothing helps at all you should contact hp or the place you bought your > HP49G. > > Hope that helps > Roman > > Jose Da Silva schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I try to ugrade the flash of my 49g but it seems something wrong > occur! > After download the system it freeses there and nothing happen. > Now I try to use the poerease to try to access to the terminal > download but nothing... It stay for infinity try to erease the 0 port! > If you try to check (I can enter to non O/S menu) but when I press 4 > to terminal download, it stay for a infinity time. I try to check the > full test and after begin the test it says it must formating bank1 > and stay there for a infinity time (1 day I stay there)! It seems > nothing works. What could it be? > > Jose Tnx for your help. I found the main problem!! In spite of using fresh battery (Duracel), it couldnÇt support much longer. It downloads 4 parts then it becames weak for that job. Apparently the battery is ok (if u test with a meter), but canÇt stand such job. After that u can still use it for normal operation! So I decide to use a power supply with the 49G, and amazing how it works fine!!! Conclusion: DonÇt trust on the battery to make such operation!! Even if u think it is fresh... For all who try to help me my sincerely tnxs. Jose Da Silva ==== > Conclusion: DonÇt trust on the battery to make such operation!! Even > if u think it is fresh... Glad that you found a solution. Anyway, it is recommended to always use a fresh set of battery each time you perform a flash upgrade (which should not happen too often anymore). I guess you will prefer to have a reliable and safe procedure, rather than saving a few pennies ==== X > Tnx for your help. I found the main problem!! In spite of using fresh > battery > (Duracel), it couldnÇt support much longer. It downloads 4 parts then > it becames weak for that job. Apparently the battery is ok (if u test > with a meter), but canÇt stand such job. After that u can still use it > for normal operation! So I decide to use a power supply with the 49G, > and amazing how it works fine!!! > Conclusion: DonÇt trust on the battery to make such operation!! Even > if u think it is fresh... X A _fresh_ set of batteries can withstand several OS flashing procedures (at least 10 in a row) without a hick. You do not need a power supply, but please tell us how did you provide the external power to your 49G. Veli-Pekka PS: In order to do yet another summary of the calculator features of the 28C/S, 48S/SX, 48G/G+/GX, 49G I down-graded my 2nd 49G (once again) VP ==== > X > Tnx for your help. I found the main problem!! In spite of using fresh > battery > (Duracel), it couldnÇt support much longer. It downloads 4 parts then > it becames weak for that job. Apparently the battery is ok (if u test > with a meter), but canÇt stand such job. After that u can still use it > for normal operation! So I decide to use a power supply with the 49G, > and amazing how it works fine!!! > Conclusion: DonÇt trust on the battery to make such operation!! Even > if u think it is fresh... > X > A _fresh_ set of batteries can withstand several OS flashing procedures > (at least 10 in a row) without a hick. > You do not need a power supply, but please tell us > how did you provide the external power to your 49G. > Veli-Pekka > > PS: In order to do yet another summary of the calculator features > of the 28C/S, 48S/SX, 48G/G+/GX, 49G > I down-graded my 2nd 49G (once again) > VP In normaly condition,yes, I do think you donÇt need an external power supply! But, and let me remember you where I am - Mozambique - thereÇs something wrong with the battery!! Strange that u can find 1,39V on each batt. Nway I use the Power supply from my laboratory, adjst for 4,5V and I connect together with the battery and thats all... I can ensure u that it works only with the external P.S. Jose Da Silva ==== Dear guys, Yes, I need some advises on 49G. 1st. For who, already use it whatÇs the difference between the 1.96 and 1.18 flash? Is it better? 2nd. How can I devide polynom ex. X^3+X^2-2 / X^2-X ? Jose Da Silva Mozambique ==== Jose Da Silva schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Dear guys, Yes, I need some advises on 49G. 1st. For who, already use it whatÇs the difference between the 1.96 and 1.18 flash? > Is it better? The ROM-version 1.19-6 seems to be more stable than all the previous ROM-versions (Including version 1.18). So it seems safe to make the update to version 1.19-6 (If you haven't already). If you are interested in the changes from the previous ROM-versions you should have a look at the files that come zipped with the flash-file (if there are any) otherwise have a look at: www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/49.html > 2nd. How can I devide polynom ex. X^3+X^2-2 / X^2-X ? > 'PARTFRAC' does this. (Although I didn't try this particular example) have a lot of fun Roman > Jose Da Silva Mozambique ==== > The ROM-version 1.19-6 seems to be more stable than all the previous > ROM-versions (Including version 1.18). So it seems safe to make the update > to version 1.19-6 (If you haven't already). If you are interested in the > changes from the previous ROM-versions you should have a look at the files > that come zipped with the flash-file (if there are any) otherwise have a > look at: www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/49.html The links on the above URL all are good EXCEPT for the MASD documentation. I can no longer find this on the HP site and the links above just go to the HP site! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com ==== > The ROM-version 1.19-6 seems to be more stable than all the previous > ROM-versions (Including version 1.18). So it seems safe to make the update > to version 1.19-6 (If you haven't already). If you are interested in the > changes from the previous ROM-versions you should have a look at the files > that come zipped with the flash-file (if there are any) otherwise have a > look at: www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/49.html The links on the above URL all are good EXCEPT for the MASD documentation. > I can no longer find this on the HP site and the links above just go to the > HP site! > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Bill Graves RKBA! > bgraves@ix.netcom.com Real Language: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=2987 some puny english version: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=2986 Sorry, no Divine Finnish version available! VP ==== > The ROM-version 1.19-6 seems to be more stable than all the previous > ROM-versions (Including version 1.18). So it seems safe to make the > update > to version 1.19-6 (If you haven't already). If you are interested in the > changes from the previous ROM-versions you should have a look at the > files > that come zipped with the flash-file (if there are any) otherwise have a > look at: www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/49.html > > The links on the above URL all are good EXCEPT for the MASD documentation. > I can no longer find this on the HP site and the links above just go to > the > HP site! > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Bill Graves RKBA! > bgraves@ix.netcom.com > > Real Language: > http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=2987 > some puny english version: > http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=2986 > Sorry, no Divine Finnish version available! > VP ............................................................................ .... WhatÇs the MASD for? Jose Da Silva ==== All I'm a student working on an EE degree.. Just got through trig and pre calc is next. I used a HP32 calculator for trig. I'm in the market for a new graphing calculator. Been looking at commercial adds and reading comparisons. The hp49G looks to be the way to go.. Having owned other HP calculators I kinda like the colour of the HP48 series better than the 49 However the 49 seems more advanced. Is the 48GX more rugged than the 49? I'm not planning on running over it but I've read some stories where the 49 was dropped and caused problems. Id appreciate any comments on which is better for this field. The TI series calculators seem very popular with the kids at school.. But popularity may not be a good reason to go with TI.. I'm about 20 years older than most of them.. The HP48GX has the equation library how useful is this really? You should be able to program the formulas you need into the 49? Rich ==== G'day I am doing EE (well Computer Systems Eng. actually but it's roughly the same thing), and I bought the 49g after considering the TI and the 48. I am quite pleased with it, especially the hyperbolic functions. Download the emulators and try some 'typical' problems out on them and see which one feels the best. cheers /Victor > All > I'm a student working on an EE degree.. Just got through trig and pre > calc is next. I used a HP32 calculator for trig. I'm in the market > for a new graphing calculator. Been looking at commercial adds and > reading comparisons. The hp49G looks to be the way to go.. Having owned other HP > calculators I kinda like the colour of the HP48 series better than > the 49 However the 49 seems more advanced. Is the 48GX more rugged than the 49? I'm not planning on running over > it but I've read some stories where the 49 was dropped and caused > problems. Id appreciate any comments on which is better for this field. The TI > series calculators seem very popular with the kids at school.. > But popularity may not be a good reason to go with TI.. I'm about 20 > years older than most of them.. The HP48GX has the equation library how useful is this really? You > should be able to program the formulas you need into the 49? ==== All Many thanks for replying.. After having the 15c, 32SII which I still have and they work great. The battery on the 15c lasted longer than 10 years.. Anyway really like the 32SII and use it allot.. I'm taking in allot of information on this news group and thanks to those who posted to my call for help / information.. Im wondering my 32SII is made in singapore. The 48gx I don't know where they are made. Are there any 48gx or 49g's that one should steer clear of due to bugs etc. How hard is it to upgrade the flash rom. I noticed that the memory upgrades are expensive for the 48GX but some folks have modified there calcs by adding additional memory internally a fairly cheap fix. Being seasoned at this I feel comfortable upgrading the memory but I understand it invalidates any warranty on the 48gx if there is any left and has a certain amount of risk involved. Overall I've always liked the hp calculators over the TI just because of the feel they have, appearance and RPN. The one thing I haven't found though is a good web site that really shows benchmarks between the ti and the hp graphing calculators. Ive read some discussion groups that claim one is better than the other in performance but haven't seen anything. One thing i have seen on the 48gx is plug in cards for physics and chemistry and surveying.. The 49G i guess this is not needed due to the greater amount of memory? Rich >All >I'm a student working on an EE degree.. Just got through trig and pre >calc is next. I used a HP32 calculator for trig. I'm in the market >for a new graphing calculator. Been looking at commercial adds and >reading comparisons. The hp49G looks to be the way to go.. Having owned other HP >calculators I kinda like the colour of the HP48 series better than >the 49 However the 49 seems more advanced. Is the 48GX more rugged than the 49? I'm not planning on running over >it but I've read some stories where the 49 was dropped and caused >problems. Id appreciate any comments on which is better for this field. The TI >series calculators seem very popular with the kids at school.. > But popularity may not be a good reason to go with TI.. I'm about 20 >years older than most of them.. > >The HP48GX has the equation library how useful is this really? You >should be able to program the formulas you need into the 49? >Rich ==== Rich McMahon escribi.97 en el mensaje > All I noticed that the memory upgrades are expensive for the 48GX ... Try here: http://uuhome.de/oklotz/index_e.html You can get 128Kb+1MB for 65 euros. Not very expensive, is it? ==== website was old they wanted 200+ USD.. Rich On Thu, 6 Jun 2002 15:02:54 +0200, R Lion Rich McMahon escribi.97 en el mensaje >> All >> I noticed that the memory upgrades are expensive for the 48GX ... Try here: http://uuhome.de/oklotz/index_e.html You can get 128Kb+1MB for 65 euros. Not very expensive, is it? == website was old they wanted 200+ USD.. > I'm confused: prices in euros are of this year! ==== I'm in the same boat, being about 12-16 years older than most of my classmates. I have a 48s, 48gx, 49g, and a TI89 (I'm a nut about these things) I haven't yet found the the right resource to learn programming well on one of the HPs - everything online skips some steps, it seems- in built in functions and downloaded pacs I've yet to come across anything the 48s won't do just fine! (well, 32k ram is a bit light, and I haven't gotten into the heavy stats or calc courses yet. Wait until upper div stats and ask me again.) In order of feel 48s 48gx 49g In order of classroom use 48gx 49g 48s Mind- I haven't even startede to tap the possibilities of the 49g, I might change my mind if I can get used to the keypad. (Why is the ti89 not mentioned? I haven't turned it on in 5 months!) -Christof -- while E <> ==== I am just going to post a cop-out for my suggestion: go here and read the comparision: http://www.rskey.org/buyguide.html If you really like RPN and want it integrated into the calculator, only HP does it best. RPN software is available for the Ti-89, and for general use, is ok. I suspect you should consider the HP48GX, but everyone has their favorites. With $$$ (to buy RAM Cards) you can take the capabilities of the 48 as high as any. Out of the box value. A 49G is best and is probably tougher than any other calc also, since it has a screen cover over the LCD, the others DON'T. A Ti will put you in the Herd and will give you lots of fellow user support (whether its intellegent support??? Hey, your asking an HP crowd). Just my $0.02 ==== The keyboard claim in the paper is total bullshit and there is nothing magical about the Voyager 200 that would make it better than the 49G It's still a TI, same old OS (with a new desktop) same stiff user interface, same inflexibility I'm disappointed. I might have bought a TI... :-( VP > I am just going to post a cop-out for my suggestion: go here and read the comparision: http://www.rskey.org/buyguide.html > If you really like RPN and want it integrated into the calculator, > only HP does it best. RPN software is available for the Ti-89, and > for general use, is ok. I suspect you should consider the HP48GX, but everyone has their > favorites. With $$$ (to buy RAM Cards) you can take the capabilities > of the 48 as high as any. Out of the box value. A 49G is best and is probably tougher than any > other calc also, since it has a screen cover over the LCD, the others > DON'T. A Ti will put you in the Herd and will give you lots of fellow user > support (whether its intellegent support??? Hey, your asking an HP > crowd). Just my $0.02 ==== I am studying Electronics here in Denmark and bought the 49 6 months ago - i am very happy with it, particularly it's matrix capabilities and of course RPN. Anders > All > I'm a student working on an EE degree.. Just got through trig and pre > calc is next. I used a HP32 calculator for trig. I'm in the market > for a new graphing calculator. Been looking at commercial adds and > reading comparisons. The hp49G looks to be the way to go.. Having owned other HP > calculators I kinda like the colour of the HP48 series better than > the 49 However the 49 seems more advanced. Is the 48GX more rugged than the 49? I'm not planning on running over > it but I've read some stories where the 49 was dropped and caused > problems. Id appreciate any comments on which is better for this field. The TI > series calculators seem very popular with the kids at school.. > But popularity may not be a good reason to go with TI.. I'm about 20 > years older than most of them.. The HP48GX has the equation library how useful is this really? You > should be able to program the formulas you need into the 49? > Rich ==== my advice is to go to a shop and directly compare the HP-48GX and the 49G. So you can see and feel what suits you best. My personal favourite is the 48GX with the new high-contrast display, and because of the keyboard feedback and layout. Most of the software enhancements of the 49G can be achieved in the 48GX with free software from www.hpcalc.org Raymond Rich McMahon schrieb im Newsbeitrag > All > I'm a student working on an EE degree.. Just got through trig and pre > calc is next. I used a HP32 calculator for trig. I'm in the market > for a new graphing calculator. Been looking at commercial adds and > reading comparisons. The hp49G looks to be the way to go.. Having owned other HP > calculators I kinda like the colour of the HP48 series better than > the 49 However the 49 seems more advanced. Is the 48GX more rugged than the 49? I'm not planning on running over > it but I've read some stories where the 49 was dropped and caused > problems. Id appreciate any comments on which is better for this field. The TI > series calculators seem very popular with the kids at school.. > But popularity may not be a good reason to go with TI.. I'm about 20 > years older than most of them.. The HP48GX has the equation library how useful is this really? You > should be able to program the formulas you need into the 49? > Rich ==== > my advice is to go to a shop and directly compare the HP-48GX and the 49G. > So you can see and feel what suits you best. > My personal favourite is the 48GX with the new high-contrast display, > and because of the keyboard feedback and layout. > Most of the software enhancements of the 49G can be achieved in the 48GX with > free software from www.hpcalc.org Raymond, you know that the 48 is equally good only for specialists like you who govern SysRPL and ML equally well and know all details on memory managing etc :-) If somebody does not intend to program himself but is willing to use some 3rd party interface enhancement, the HP49 will be superiour to the HP48 in many respects. This also holds for high-level programming in SysRPL because of its supported expansion (Virtual stack etc). Last but not least, this holds also for those who dayly apply higher math (physicists etc), not only because of its CAS but of its builtin discrete math tools, for instance. - Wolfgang PS. Serious mathematicians are using computer algebra mainly as a kind of control tool, they nearly never rely on it. ==== X > HP49 will be superiour to the HP48 in many respects. This > also holds for high-level programming in SysRPL because of > its supported expansion (Virtual stack etc). Last but not > least, this holds also for those who dayly apply higher > math (physicists etc), not only because of its CAS but > of its builtin discrete math tools, for instance. X HP 48GX +128KB RAM in port 1 merged => 256KB RAM +256KB RAM in port 2 automanaged +1 MB RAM in port 2 automanaged (Flash) Updateable ROM of 1MB ??! Is this possible? How much would it cost? Buy the 49G and you get it !!! with a lot of extras like: - combination of ALG49 & Erable49 (integrated+enhanced) - lot of new stuff including CAS & Matrix commands - plus an Algebraic Mode of operation. Keyboard: Quite different in good and bad, but the main positive feature is that finally the Alpha keyboard has arrow keys operational !! There is also a new fast Xmodem build-in. AND MASD SysRPL/assembler is build-in with a Jazz-clone-war debugger about to be released by the All-In-Wander SysRPL Processor UNIT: VP - Buy the 49G, enjoy it, program it! The v'ger - hotter than Gherkin !!! ==== > Yeah! I like the sound of that!! ==== > > I am here to say(and to prove the HP48 is wrong but the 49 is right) that > 0^0 is NOT 1. To prove I've typed into Maple 7: > singular(x^x,x) > and got: > {x=-oo} {x=oo} {x=0}. > > > > Infinity Greetings, > HPhreacker. I am a new user of HP49G, so I won't write anything about the calc itself, but I hope that the following revision of Analysis is helpful. When refering to function limits, the following forms are indeterminate: 0/0 , oo/oo , 0*oo , oo-oo , oo^0 , 0^0 , 1^oo. If we want to find the lim[x^x] when x->0, we get the indeterminate form 0^0. How do we overcome the indetermination??? Let's say that we want to find the lim[f(x)^g(x)] when x->a, but limf(x)=limg(x)=0 when x->a. Remember that f(x)^g(x)=EXP[g(x)*LN[f(x)]]. So, in order to find the lim[f(x)^g(x)] when x->a, we first have to find the limit A=lim[g(x)*LN[f(x)]] when x->a, which is of the form 0*oo, and then evaluate EXP[A]. Note that A belongs to IR U {-oo , +oo}, where U means union. This means that for x->a : {EXP[A] , if A belongs to IR lim[f(x)^g(x)]=lim[EXP[g(x)*LN[f(x)]]]= {0 , if A=-oo {+oo , if A=+oo Indetrminate form 0*oo: If F(x)=f(x)*g(x) and lim[f(x)]=0 for x->a, lim[g(x)]=oo for x->a, then, in order to find the lim[F(x)] for x->a, we must transform F(x) to the form F(x)= f(x)/(1/g(x)). This reduces the problem to the indeterminate form 0/0 (easy with l' Hospital's rule). Or we can write: F(x)=g(x)/(1/f(x)), which is of the form oo/oo (easy). Example: x^x=EXP[x*LN[x]], for x>0. So, for x->0+: lim[x*LN[x]]=lim[LN[x]/(1/x)]=lim[(1/x)/(-1/x^2)]=lim[-x]=0 after using l' Hospital's rule. And, for x->0+: lim[x^x]=EXP[lim[x*LN[x]]]=EXP[0]=1 So, lim[x^x]=1 , for x->0+ Please, any comments and disagreements welcome!!! Alex!!! ==== [snip] > Example: x^x=EXP[x*LN[x]], for x>0. So, for x->0+: > > lim[x*LN[x]]=lim[LN[x]/(1/x)]=lim[(1/x)/(-1/x^2)]=lim[-x]=0 > after using l' Hospital's rule. > > And, for x->0+: lim[x^x]=EXP[lim[x*LN[x]]]=EXP[0]=1 > > So, lim[x^x]=1 , for x->0+ Yes, this is correct. Also, you can remove the x->0+ restriction if you use complex numbers. In complex arithmetic x^y is defined as exp(y * Log(x)), where Log is the principal natural logarithm. Then an analysis similar to yours shows that lim[x^x] = 1 for x->0. Back to real numbers: Of course the problem is that lim[x^y] doesn't exist for x->0+,y->0. In fact x^y takes on all positive values arbitrarily close to (x,y)=(0,0). Look at the level sets of x^y: x^y = c => y = ln(c)/ln(x) Since y->0 as x->0+, there are points arbitrarily close to (0,0) that take on the value c. The question as I see it is: what are the downsides of defining 0^0 on the HP calculators: 0^0 = indeterminate Downside: you have to write special code to handle this case when doing integer sums (These occur frequently if you are working through a text such as Concrete Mathematics by Graham, Knuth, and Patashnik.) 0^0 = 1 Downside: you will possibly confuse calculus students, or worse, you will get people telling you that your calculator is mathematically incorrect. Since I have yet to see a practical problem that relies on 0^0 being indeterminate, I remain in the 0^0 = 1 camp. Scott -- Scott Hemphill hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu This isn't flying. This is falling, with style. -- Buzz Lightyear ==== I Agree with you... after playing with Maple 7, I tryed to evaluate this: (-0.00000000001)^(-0.00000000000001); The result is 1.000000000-.3141592654e-13*I and with this result we can conclude that the imaginary part of the Lim(x->0-, x^x) tends to zero, so, lim (x->0, x^x) = 1. (You can use some Delta to solve this, picking very little Deltas...) DanieL. > > [snip] > > Example: x^x=EXP[x*LN[x]], for x>0. So, for x->0+: > > lim[x*LN[x]]=lim[LN[x]/(1/x)]=lim[(1/x)/(-1/x^2)]=lim[-x]=0 > after using l' Hospital's rule. > > And, for x->0+: lim[x^x]=EXP[lim[x*LN[x]]]=EXP[0]=1 > > So, lim[x^x]=1 , for x->0+ > > Yes, this is correct. Also, you can remove the x->0+ restriction if you > use complex numbers. > > In complex arithmetic x^y is defined as exp(y * Log(x)), > where Log is the principal natural logarithm. > > Then an analysis similar to yours shows that lim[x^x] = 1 for x->0. > > Back to real numbers: Of course the problem is that lim[x^y] doesn't > exist for x->0+,y->0. In fact x^y takes on all positive values > arbitrarily close to (x,y)=(0,0). Look at the level sets of x^y: > > x^y = c => y = ln(c)/ln(x) > > Since y->0 as x->0+, there are points arbitrarily close to (0,0) that > take on the value c. > > The question as I see it is: what are the downsides of defining 0^0 > on the HP calculators: > > 0^0 = indeterminate > > Downside: you have to write special code to handle this case when > doing integer sums (These occur frequently if you are working > through a text such as Concrete Mathematics by Graham, Knuth, > and Patashnik.) > > 0^0 = 1 > > Downside: you will possibly confuse calculus students, or worse, > you will get people telling you that your calculator is > mathematically incorrect. > > Since I have yet to see a practical problem that relies on 0^0 being > indeterminate, I remain in the 0^0 = 1 camp. > > Scott ==== I was wondering how the binomial coefficient N! / n! * (N - n)! is called in the HP49's cat menu? I can't find it anywhere. TIA. -- Andreas Korinek ==== The HP 49G has FACT (!), PERM and COMB in the [MTH] [NXT] |PROB| menu VP I was wondering how the binomial coefficient N! / n! * (N - n)! is called in > the HP49's cat menu? I can't find it anywhere. TIA. -- Andreas Korinek ==== COMB in probability menu Andreas Korinek escribi.97 en el mensaje I was wondering how the binomial coefficient N! / n! * (N - n)! is called in > the HP49's cat menu? I can't find it anywhere. TIA. -- Andreas Korinek ==== the funtion plot: Y = x -1 comes up wrong in my HP49G. the vertical tabs on the Y axes are not properly segmented. the line should pass through the first positive x tab (which it does) and the first negative y tab (which it doesn't). 1.19-6 ==== and your PPAR is properly set up? Also: you have the 2D/3D PLOT SETUP Ticks set up to reflect the units correctly? VP the funtion plot: Y = x -1 comes up wrong in my HP49G. the vertical tabs on the Y axes are not properly segmented. the line > should pass through the first positive x tab (which it does) and the > first negative y tab (which it doesn't). > 1.19-6 ==== the PPAR i got is: { {-6.,-5.) (6.,5.) X 0. { (0.,0.) { =! Ah =! Ah } } FUNTION Y } which i believe is normal. my ticks are : H-tick: 10. V-Tick: 10. also normal in my emu (VER 1.19-5 ) i get the right plot. i still haven't figured it out :( does yours come up OK? > and your PPAR is properly set up? > Also: you have the 2D/3D PLOT SETUP Ticks > set up to reflect the units correctly? > VP > > the funtion plot: > > Y = x -1 > > comes up wrong in my HP49G. > > the vertical tabs on the Y axes are not properly segmented. the line > should pass through the first positive x tab (which it does) and the > first negative y tab (which it doesn't). > > 1.19-6 ==== > { {-6.,-5.) (6.,5.) X 0. { (0.,0.) { =! Ah =! Ah } } FUNTION Y } try with { {-6.5,-3.1.) (6.5,3.2) X 0. (0.,0.) FUNTION Y } it works. the problem is that your ppar does not give the same 'dimention' to the width of a pixel than to the height while yu are specifying you ticks to be every 10 pixels.... > which i believe is normal. my ticks are : H-tick: 10. > V-Tick: 10. also normal in my emu (VER 1.19-5 ) i get the right plot. > i still haven't figured it out :( does yours come up OK? > and your PPAR is properly set up? > Also: you have the 2D/3D PLOT SETUP Ticks > set up to reflect the units correctly? > VP > > the funtion plot: > > Y = x -1 > > comes up wrong in my HP49G. > > the vertical tabs on the Y axes are not properly segmented. the line > should pass through the first positive x tab (which it does) and the > first negative y tab (which it doesn't). > > > 1.19-6 > ==== Im having a problem with the HP 49 G. When I enter for example sqrt 9 the result is 3 thats o.k. but the HP doesnt tell me that there another result is -3 thats o.k as long as its that simple that i notice it myself so that the HP doesnt have to tell me. But with larger equations in the num.slv -> solve equation with 6 variables he gives me only one result without giving me a chance to find out if there r more possible results. What can I do that my HP tells me every possible result??? ==== > Im having a problem with the HP 49 G. When I enter for example sqrt 9 > the result is 3 thats o.k. but the HP doesnt tell me that there > another result > is -3 thats o.k as long as its that simple that i notice it myself so > that the HP doesnt have to tell me. > > But with larger equations in the num.slv -> solve equation with 6 > variables he gives me only one result without giving me a chance to > find out if there r more possible results. > What can I do that my HP tells me every possible result??? You may want to get a ti-89. I have also noticed that the HP will not solve when there are more than one possible results. For example solve(abs(x+10)=2,x) on HP results in 'Non isolable operator'. On ti-89 solve(abs(x+10)=2,x) gives you x=-8 or x=-12. It also sucks that on the HP you cant use 'and' to solve systems of equations. On my 89 sometimes I have it solve a system with five or six 'and's in it. I have yet to figure out how to solve inequalities on the HP. The HP just will not do all algebra as the 89 will. I now use the HP for science classes (easy to program and do non CAS functions), and occasionally when I want to learn what we are learning in math class I will use the HP for its non-CAS funtions. But when I have an Algebra test(like the SAT) and I want to get the answers as quickly as possible without thinking or I dont know how to do it I just use the 89. ==== > It also sucks that on the HP you cant use 'and' to solve systems of > equations. On my 89 sometimes I have it solve a system with five or > six 'and's in it. I have yet to figure out how to solve inequalities > on the HP. On the 49: Make a vector of equations and a vector of variables to solve for to do simultaeous equations. Make a list of equations folowed by the variable to solve for to do multiple, but not simultaeous, equations. <89d0a867.0206061104.b7fa5d9@posting.google.com> ==== > Im having a problem with the HP 49 G. When I enter for example sqrt 9 > the result is 3 thats o.k. but the HP doesnt tell me that there > another result > is -3 thats o.k as long as its that simple that i notice it myself so > that the HP doesnt have to tell me. In my previous reply, I told you to use 'SOLVE'. I meant to tell you to use 'ISOL'. > But with larger equations in the num.slv -> solve equation with 6 > variables he gives me only one result without giving me a chance to > find out if there r more possible results. > What can I do that my HP tells me every possible result??? You may want to get a ti-89. Why? Because he doesn't know mathematics? So the TI89 is for people who can't do math? > I have also noticed that the HP will not solve when there are more > than one possible results. For example solve(abs(x+10)=2,x) on HP > results in 'Non isolable operator'. On ti-89 solve(abs(x+10)=2,x) > gives you x=-8 or x=-12. On my HP49 ROM 1.19-6, when I type X 10 + ABS 2 = X ISOL, I gen the correct answer: {X=-12 X=-8}, and no error... On my HP48GX, I get the error you described. But as I learnt how to solve these expressions at school, I don't stop here, and I try to think... I know I can write the equation like this: s1*(X+10)=2, where s1 belongs to {-1, 1}. And if I solve this equation for the variable X, I get the following result: X=2/s1-10, which then transforms back to: {X=-8, X=-12}. I admit that one needs to do some little work here. But I'm sure you can find a library that enhances the default CAS of the HP48. You should also note that the original poster obviously has an HP49, and the HP49 can solve this stuff natively... > will use the HP for its non-CAS funtions. But when I have an Algebra > test(like the SAT) and I want to get the answers as quickly as > possible without thinking or I dont know how to do it I just use the ---------------- well... Maybe you should buy a brain then... Do you think you deserve your futur diploma? -- ----- JFM> Au royaume des aveugles le borgne est roi > Au royaume des aveugles les borgnes sont mal vus. -+- TP in Guide du Neuneu Usenet : Tu t'es vu quand tu fufes -+- ==== >You may want to get a ti-89. Or *you* may want to get ROM v1.19.6 for the HP49G. > I have also noticed that the HP will not solve when there are more > than one possible results. Never? I doubt that.... >For example solve(abs(x+10)=2,x) on HP > results in 'Non isolable operator'. On ti-89 solve(abs(x+10)=2,x) > gives you x=-8 or x=-12. My HP49G returns those two solutions too. > It also sucks that on the HP you cant use 'and' to solve systems of > equations. 'And' is classically a boolean operator, so I don't find it odd that you don'tuseitbetweenequationsinasystem.You might want to try providing SOLVE with a vector of equations on the '49.... > On my 89 sometimes I have it solve a system with five or > six 'and's in it. I have yet to figure out how to solve inequalities > on the HP. Try SOLVE? > The HP just will not do all algebra as the 89 will. I now use the HP > for science classes (easy to program and do non CAS functions), and > occasionally when I want to learn what we are learning in math class I > will use the HP for its non-CAS funtions. But when I have an Algebra > test(like the SAT) and I want to get the answers as quickly as > possible without thinking or I dont know how to do it I just use the > 89. Without thinking is the keyword here.... ==== > Im having a problem with the HP 49 G. When I enter for example sqrt 9 > the result is 3 thats o.k. but the HP doesnt tell me that there > another result > is -3 thats o.k as long as its that simple that i notice it myself so > that the HP doesnt have to tell me. No. SQRT(9)=3, and that's the only valid answer. A square root is *always* positive. Maybe you wanted to solve the equation 'X^2=9' for X, for which there are 2 valid answers, {X=-3, X=3}. If that's what you wanted to do, then enter the equation, then the variable for which you want the HP to solve the equation, and type 'SOLVE' (without the quotes). -- ----- C>Faisons le point une bonne fois. tu m'as un peu irrit.8e en affirmant C>que le point G n'existait pas. Je peux te le prouver si tu veux. Te fatigue pas, j'ai un clitoris qui fait l'affaire. -+- GL in Guide du Neuneu d'Usenet - Toutes options mont.8ees en s.8erie -+- ==== you have different solvers on the HP49G. Some of them solve symbolical some numerical. While the symbolical solvers give you exact solutions the numerical solvers only give you the first solution they find. If you want an exact solution use the exact solvers if possible. Not that the symbolic solvers have some limitiations. Don't expect them to work like a fully grown CAS like Maple or Mathematica. So if you have to use a numerical solver and know that there are other solutions as well you can adjust the result (start-value) to get another solution. You can also plot your equations to get an idea where to set the start-values. Have a lot of fun Roman Mark schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Im having a problem with the HP 49 G. When I enter for example sqrt 9 > the result is 3 thats o.k. but the HP doesnt tell me that there > another result > is -3 thats o.k as long as its that simple that i notice it myself so > that the HP doesnt have to tell me. But with larger equations in the num.slv -> solve equation with 6 > variables he gives me only one result without giving me a chance to > find out if there r more possible results. > What can I do that my HP tells me every possible result??? ==== Give us the example... VP > Im having a problem with the HP 49 G. When I enter for example sqrt 9 > the result is 3 thats o.k. but the HP doesnt tell me that there > another result > is -3 thats o.k as long as its that simple that i notice it myself so > that the HP doesnt have to tell me. But with larger equations in the num.slv -> solve equation with 6 > variables he gives me only one result without giving me a chance to > find out if there r more possible results. > What can I do that my HP tells me every possible result??? ==== Here is the example: -(((h^2*g*T+3*h^2+g)B^2*xroot(3,Q^2/(b^2*g))-(2*h^3+g+B^2+Q^2))/(2*g*B^2))=0 B=75 T=0.4 g=9.81 Q=300 b=50 with these Numbers the HP49G keeps telling me that the one and only result is 0,6.... or at least he doesnt metion the fact that there are other possible results, too. The Result Im looking for is 2.4... if u suggest him 2.4 he finds it and from now on he wont find another result than 2.4... what do I have to do to get every possible result. Hope u can help me. thank u so far to everybody who tried to help me. > Give us the example... > VP > Im having a problem with the HP 49 G. When I enter for example sqrt 9 > the result is 3 thats o.k. but the HP doesnt tell me that there > another result > is -3 thats o.k as long as its that simple that i notice it myself so > that the HP doesnt have to tell me. > > But with larger equations in the num.slv -> solve equation with 6 > variables he gives me only one result without giving me a chance to > find out if there r more possible results. > What can I do that my HP tells me every possible result??? ==== > -(((h^2*g*T+3*h^2+g)B^2*xroot(3,Q^2/(b^2*g))-(2*h^3+g+B^2+Q^2))/(2*g*B^2)) =0 B=75 T=0.4 g=9.81 Q=300 b=50 Do (in RPN mode) '-(((h^2*g*T+3*h^2+g)B^2*xroot(3,Q^2/(b^2*g))-(2*h^3+g+B^2+Q^2))/(2*g*B^2))' 75 'B' STO 0.4 'T' STO 9.81 'g' STO 300 'Q' STO 50 'b' STO 'h' SOLVE. > with these Numbers the HP49G keeps telling me that the one and only > result is 0,6.... I get {'h=-.41847481041' 'h=.418480640617' 'h=30037.2904956'}, are you sure you haven't typed the equation wrong? > or at least he doesnt metion the fact that there are > other possible results, too. The Result Im looking for is 2.4... if u > suggest him 2.4 he finds it and from now on he wont find another > result than 2.4... It sounds to me like you're using the numeric solver - don't. Use SOLVE as suggested. ==== purge files without confirmation (like in original filer). I tried with -76 SF and didnÇt work. Is there an user flag to control the purge confirmation? Fernando DÇArchivio ==== -76 SF sounds good to me, too VP to > purge files without confirmation (like in original filer). I tried with -76 > SF and didnÇt work. Is there an user flag to control the purge confirmation? Fernando DÇArchivio ==== > purge files without confirmation (like in original filer). I tried with -76 > SF and didnÇt work. Is there an user flag to control the purge confirmation? something is going wrong with my damned NG server. Carsten and me, we thoroughly discussed this special problem. Carsten voted strongly for protection. When I lost a valuable file by just unintensionally hitting P, I agreed with Carsten to always protect the purger. - Wolfgang PS If you want, I'll make a special variant of Filer1 for you which doesn't affect any flag setting. That will even be smaller, I need no SaveSysFlags then :-) ==== WR> Carsten and me, we thoroughly discussed this special WR> problem. Carsten voted strongly for protection. When WR> I lost a valuable file by just unintensionally hitting WR> P, I agreed with Carsten to always protect the purger. Well, at first I actually wanted to get rid of the protection and of the key binding since it is dangerous indeed. The Menu is a safer place for purge. But since Wolfgang wanted to put it on the P key, I voted for forced protection. WR> PS If you want, I'll make a special variant of Filer1 WR> for you which doesn't affect any flag setting. That WR> will even be smaller, I need no SaveSysFlags then :-) After working with the filer quite a bit, I think I will restructure mine and change the menu to this (maybe I can convince Wolfgang to do it for me/us, that's why I post it here :-) EDITB VIEW COPY PURGE KEYS TREE Reasons: - I want COPY on an unshifted key, so I put it on the C key. COPY is one of the most important options in the filer for me (restoring a directory from port 1/2 backup) - PURGE in the menu, then user control about confirmation can return (and then I would turn it off...) - NEW (which used to be in the menu) can move to some convenient key, I don't use it that often. Maybe RS ENTRY? - SORT (which used to be in the menu) really is not needed in the menu since all options including original are now on keys (which is GREAT!) - Carsten ==== > After working with the filer quite a bit, I think I will restructure > mine and change the menu to this (maybe I can convince Wolfgang to do > it for me/us, that's why I post it here :-) > EDITB VIEW COPY PURGE KEYS TREE > Reasons: > - I want COPY on an unshifted key, so I put it on the C key. COPY > is one of the most important options in the filer for me (restoring > a directory from port 1/2 backup) > - PURGE in the menu, then user control about confirmation can return > (and then I would turn it off...) > - NEW (which used to be in the menu) can move to some convenient key, > I don't use it that often. Maybe RS ENTRY? > - SORT (which used to be in the menu) really is not needed in the menu > since all options including original are now on keys (which is > GREAT!) Excellent proposition, will be realized. Only, if NEW is going now to a shifted key, why not to rightshift N or perhaps to alpha N ? What's your opinion? A for the P-key, we may use it either for Print display or for Print.. (sets the print dialog screen) from the builtin APPS box. Who votes for the first or second, should *reply here in the NG* with Print Display or Print. If I don't see at least 3 answers refering to this, I'll infer that nobody does anymore directly print from his 49 and the P key will not be assigned at all. - Wolfgang PS. I would need 15 minutes for rewriting the filer program on my baby at the balcony in the sun (that's the reason why I prefer programming on the HP49 and not on a PC :-) ==== > Excellent proposition, will be realized. Only, if NEW > is going now to a shifted key, why not to rightshift N > or perhaps to alpha N ? What's your opinion? X alpha N The V Directory Check should be the first thing in the NEW Dialog since then you don't have to give the object Like this it should be, Master Obi-Gang: _ Directory Name: Object: ==== Wolfgang Rautenberg > Excellent proposition, will be realized. Only, if NEW > is going now to a shifted key, why not to rightshift N > or perhaps to alpha N ? What's your opinion? > alpha N > The V Directory Check > should be the first thing in the NEW Dialog > since then you don't have to give the object > Like this > _ Directory > Name: > Object: Quite reasonable, but you should address this to JYA. Perhaps he was slightly tipsy when he programmed the NEW dialog box upside down :-) Rewriting the rather complex NEW command would cost about 1 KB, too much for me :-) - Wolfgang Answer number 1 ==== > Wolfgang Rautenberg > Excellent proposition, will be realized. Only, if NEW > is going now to a shifted key, why not to rightshift N > or perhaps to alpha N ? What's your opinion? > alpha N ********************** The V Directory Check should be the first thing in the NEW Dialog since then you don't have to give the object Like this _ Directory Name: Object: > Quite reasonable, but you should address this > to JYA. Perhaps he was slightly tipsy when he > programmed the NEW dialog box upside down :-) Rewriting the rather complex NEW command would > cost about 1 KB, too much for me :-) - Wolfgang > Answer number 1 ==== > Carsten and me, we thoroughly discussed this special > problem. Carsten voted strongly for protection. When > I lost a valuable file by just unintensionally hitting > P, I agreed with Carsten to always protect the purger. > Why don't you leave this decision up to the user ? Just by using the already existing flag, you can either have the confirmation or not. I find that having the function linked to a direct key (without any shift or alpha) very dangerous, it's easy to hit a key by mistake, less easy when it's a shifted key ==== Wolfgang Rautenberg schrieb im Newsbeitrag >[...FilerX Purge Protection...] > PS If you want, I'll make a special variant of Filer1 > for you which doesn't affect any flag setting. That > will even be smaller, I need no SaveSysFlags then :-) > Just make it switchable;-) This way you don't have to bother with different versions. Raymond ==== >[...FilerX Purge Protection...] > PS If you want, I'll make a special variant of Filer1 > for you which doesn't affect any flag setting. That > will even be smaller, I need no SaveSysFlags then :-) > Just make it switchable;-) > This way you don't have to bother with different versions. This is a problem for the following reason: I normally prefer unprotected PURGE (Purge from OT49 purges even a list of mixed stuff, files, dirs, libs and backups in one turn and is extremely fast). However, in the filer I prefer protection. As you know, ACO purged PURGE from the hardkey board :-) It happens that if my target is O I just hit the little P. I know I could take a user flag, but... - Wolfgang PS. For ordering, purging, renaming, hiding etc I personally use much faster tools than any filer whatever could provide. ==== > > It depends, on Emu48 for example, you can choose to run the calculator at > real speed (ie: 4mhz) or at full speed (ie: as fast as your PC will > allow).... Just take into account As fast as your PC will allow doesn't mean as fast as your PC, ie: 1Ghz PC won't get you a 1Ghz HP.... ==== Please, Known any the steps for create a program of the subject, without 30 MENU and 74 MENU ?. Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK ==== try OpenGL LOL ==== Actually, I had a look at the Fast3D code lately, does anoboddy have an idea how I could make the Fast3D -> wireframe stuff? I can use the max/min x, y, z and use them directly in wireframe, but in fast 3D, I have the rotation angles for the object, in wireframe, I need the eye position... can anyboddy workout the maths? > try OpenGL > LOL ==== > According to Colin Campbell [...] Sorry, I should have said ColinC, since that name is just my guess and I might well be wrong. ==== > [...] the Rumour mill thread is about HP calcs, the new, [...] Hmm, you seem very sure about this new calc. I mean that you must know actual facts or have some papers about it. I think you don't consider it a rumour, do you? VP, don't you think that ACOers deserve to know the complete story? After all, I don't find it very logical that almost at the same time that ACO is shut down, another team begins working on a new model in a new division - or perhaps it's not new at all, perhaps HP has used one of their sites in Corvallis, Fort Collins or San Diego ... Perhaps, Bye. HPCC member #1046 - -- ==== > > [...] the Rumour mill thread is about HP calcs, the new, [...] > > Hmm, you seem very sure about this new calc. I mean that you must > know actual facts or have some papers about it. I think you don't > consider it a rumour, do you? > Sure, he doesn't.. > VP, don't you think that ACOers deserve to know the complete story? Maybe, but maybe he can't tell all of it.. or not? > After all, I don't find it very logical that almost at the same time > that ACO is shut down, another team begins working on a new model in Yes and no, as I see HP had cut all ACO development in calculators a long time before they shut it down.. Remember, when they cancelled Xpander, the ACO began to work in ChaiLX, not calculators anymore.. This give you more than a year I think.. perhaps time enough to create a great army of Saturn clones for HP.. maybe I must stop going to cinema.. > a new division - or perhaps it's not new at all, perhaps HP has used > one of their sites in Corvallis, Fort Collins or San Diego ... > It is a planet outside.. yes, yes, I know I must stop, but perhaps Kamino has the answer.. May the force be with.. J.Manrique ==== > [...] the Rumour mill thread is about HP calcs, the new, [...] Hmm, you seem very sure about this new calc. I mean that you must > know actual facts or have some papers about it. I think you don't > consider it a rumour, do you? VP, don't you think that ACOers deserve to know the complete story? If any of the former ACO members that I know of (Pictures can be found on every 49G ROM) who have their name written (in blood :) on the HP NDA or similar paper(s) asks me I will surely tell any information that I have, but as far as I know, these are only *rumours* and I'm quite sure that BOUHP, HPmad, WARLOCK, Gherkin, * BTW JYA: Remember to add the GREY handling to ALL * graphics commands, will you? have better access to secret HP information than I have. So you just have to hold your breath until you turn blue - frozen-hamster-butt-blue ;-) VP - wait 'till you see the calc(s) before saying hurrah! > After all, I don't find it very logical that almost at the same time > that ACO is shut down, another team begins working on a new model in > a new division - or perhaps it's not new at all, perhaps HP has used > one of their sites in Corvallis, Fort Collins or San Diego ... > Perhaps, > Bye. HPCC member #1046 ==== > [...] about the end of Xpander (destroyed in a parking or similar)??? Smashed in the car park with a hammer. I'd change my Xpander for a picture of that moment!! Bye. HPCC member #1046 - -- ==== Can someone please tell me how can I convert HP48 Library to Hp49? Please help me!! I need Bodee.lib converted to HP49 Thanx in advice ==== perhaps anyone at hpcalc.org has already ported it. >Can someone please tell me how can I convert HP48 Library to Hp49? >Please help me!! I need Bodee.lib converted to HP49 >Thanx in advice ==== I'm looking for a good course/book for userRPL (and eventually sys) programming. I don't have an AUR, and most of the docs on hpcalc.org are skipping pieces that seem to be in there. Is there anything more out there? tx -- while E <> ==== i learned it with the advanced user manual from hp. it describes nearly all commands and describes how to build a program, loop or anything else. I'm looking for a good course/book for userRPL (and eventually sys) >programming. I don't have an AUR, and most of the docs on hpcalc.org are >skipping pieces that seem to be in there. Is there anything more out there? tx ==== hrm- > i learned it with the advanced user manual from hp. it describes > nearly all commands and describes how to build a program, loop or > anything else. Unfortunately, I'm not seeing a way to order that. -K ==== > hrm- > > > i learned it with the advanced user manual from hp. it describes > nearly all commands and describes how to build a program, loop or > anything else. > > Unfortunately, I'm not seeing a way to order that. > > -K > There used to be an advanced user manual that you could download from the HP company websites, but since they got married to Compac, they seem to have gone downhill fast. ==== > There used to be an advanced user manual that you could download > from the HP company websites, but since they got married to Compac, > they seem to have gone downhill fast. Someone has to have archived this :) -- while E <> ==== The are books 'bout HP28 & HP48 ML programming within the french web site http://www.courbis.fr Books are in PDF. 1 in english (48s) others in french. Not very hard to understand 'ven if ya dont speak french Luc > > >>hrm- >>>i learned it with the advanced user manual from hp. it describes >>>nearly all commands and describes how to build a program, loop or >>>anything else. >>>Unfortunately, I'm not seeing a way to order that. >>-K > > There used to be an advanced user manual that you could download > from the HP company websites, but since they got married to Compac, > they seem to have gone downhill fast. > ==== This viruses are written in user rpl. > ==== I bought a 48G+ last August. Recently, it has stopped working with a message Invalid Card Data. When this happens, I lose all installed libraries, but other memory seems to be OK. Today this happend again, the 3rd time in about 2 months. The calc has a 1 yr warranty - should I send it in? The batteries seem OK - no low batt indicators, and all works fine again after I re-load the libs. VW ==== V. Wright schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I bought a 48G+ last August. Recently, it has stopped > working with a message Invalid Card Data. > When this happens, I lose all installed libraries, but other > memory seems to be OK. Today this happend again, the 3rd time in about 2 months. The calc has a 1 yr warranty - should I send it in? The batteries seem OK - no low batt indicators, and all > works fine again after I re-load the libs. > This seems to be the usual problem. At least one of your libraries is the 'bad boy'. Do you remember which libraries you installed just before your invalid card data errors? Raymond ==== After going missing for about two years, I'm back again with an HP48 in one hand and an HP49 in the other (I'm typing with my nose). I see lots of familiar names, though some seem to be missing. Joe Horn? John Meyers? Does Peter Karp still post? The HP49 is only a week old, and I'm still getting acquainted with it. Verdict so far: it's much better than people said it was. Not that it doesn't have some infuriating faults (that keyboard). I upgraded the ROM to v1.18, but some downbloaded programs won't run and I guess I should have something more up to date. Does anybody have any advice on a good ROM version? I noticed that hpcalc.org has only one version newer than 1.18, and it looks pretty hairy (Use at your own risk and so on). Bill ==== > Does anybody have any advice on a good ROM version? http://www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/49.html http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3240 BTW Bill, when will we see Iteratives III ? ;-) Bye. HPCC member #1046 - -- ==== Both 1.19-5 & 1.19-6 are better than the 1.18 Use the 1.19-6, because it's quite old and many new programs support only 1.19-6 VP X > I upgraded the ROM to v1.18, but some downbloaded programs won't run > and I guess I should have something more up to date. Does anybody have > any advice on a good ROM version? I noticed that hpcalc.org has only > one version newer than 1.18, and it looks pretty hairy (Use at your > own risk and so on). > Bill ==== download site: http://www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/49.html Tom > Both 1.19-5 & 1.19-6 are better than the 1.18 > Use the 1.19-6, because it's quite old and > many new programs support only 1.19-6 > VP > I upgraded the ROM to v1.18, but some downbloaded programs won't > run and I guess I should have something more up to date. Does > anybody have any advice on a good ROM version? .... ==== > :: ' xNOVAL EQ ; > It would be better to have your source code compatible for the HP48G as well. On the HP48, xNOVAL is a ROMPTR, therefore, EQ would not work and you would have to use EQUAL. ==== My 49G is about 6 months old and the ENTER key is starting to fade. It has not had any games played on it ... strictly maths. Has anyone had any luck with placing a clear nail polish over the key details? What should I expect out of HP warranty? TIA, Cam ==== After 1 year: out-of-warranty = out-of-luck In your case, you Lucky Luke, (that will be your name hereafter :) send it to HP, they should replace it faster than you can draw... VP My 49G is about 6 months old and the ENTER key is starting to fade. It has not had any games played on it ... strictly maths. Has anyone had any luck with placing a clear nail polish over the key > details? What should I expect out of HP warranty? TIA, Cam ==== Maybe JYA or anybody else knows a workaround? When I run the old Browser ~Choose in full-screen mode (message 60) and with flag 90 (choose minifont) set, the display is odd. The Browser engine uses the full screen, but the strings displayed are actually truncated to about 18 characters. Since the minifont is used, half of the screen is empty. I tried changing the with of browser lines by hand (message 59). I could make the line less wide all right, but I could not increase the width. So it seems to me that the truncation of strings to about 18 characters may be hard-coded into the engine. Probably something overlooked when the engine was ported to the HP49G and adapted to honor flag 90. Does anyone know a workaround for this? I guess I could use the converter program and do everything by hand, but that is not very convenient. - Carsten ==== > I tried changing the with of browser lines by hand (message 59). I > could make the line less wide all right, but I could not increase the > width. So it seems to me that the truncation of strings to about 18 > characters may be hard-coded into the engine. Probably something A workaround will be to use the message handler and do the string convesion yourself. Quite easy things to do. The only place where the full browser is used is in the Flag manager, and it's using graphics rather than text. ==== it should be easy, but I don't get it right.. :-( I've written some programs in User-RPL on a HP48 and want to use them on HP49. I tried - Kermit (ASC-Mode, but also BIN-MODE) - X-Modem - transfer HP48 -> PC -> HP49 - transfer HP48 -> HP49 always the transfered variables show up on the HP49. But the programs now contain not only RPL-Code but additional EXTERNALs. If I run them, it crashes the HP49. Sometimes I get HPHP48... strings. After OBJFIXing them, it's the same as above. (externals) Another try was to BZ the program on HP48, transfer the string and unpack it on the HP49. The result is again an external. Sometimes (in ASC-Mode) the transfer stops with a syntax error. In this case I tried to transfer a nested directory. Is that impossible with Kermit? Maybe you have some hints what I do wrong? Holger (who formerly thougt to know something about HPs :-(( ) ==== 1) HP49G: CASCFG 2) Set the HP 49G in Approx. Mode (Header says R~ or C~) 3) Use Kermit ASCII mode on both calcs with the exact same settings It should work now! DO NOT USE BINARY between 48-49 VP it should be easy, but I don't get it right.. :-( I've written some programs in User-RPL on a HP48 and want to use them on > HP49. I tried - Kermit (ASC-Mode, but also BIN-MODE) > - X-Modem > - transfer HP48 -> PC -> HP49 > - transfer HP48 -> HP49 always the transfered variables show up on the HP49. But the programs now > contain not only RPL-Code but additional EXTERNALs. If I run them, it > crashes the HP49. Sometimes I get HPHP48... strings. After OBJFIXing them, it's the same as > above. (externals) Another try was to BZ the program on HP48, transfer the string and unpack it > on the HP49. The result is again an external. Sometimes (in ASC-Mode) the transfer stops with a syntax error. In this > case I tried to transfer a nested directory. Is that impossible with Kermit? Maybe you have some hints what I do wrong? Holger > (who formerly thougt to know something about HPs :-(( ) ==== Holger Veli-Pekka Nousiainen schrieb im Newsbeitrag > 1) HP49G: CASCFG > 2) Set the HP 49G in Approx. Mode > (Header says R~ or C~) > 3) Use Kermit ASCII mode on both calcs > with the exact same settings It should work now! > DO NOT USE BINARY between 48-49 VP > ==== On the hp49 when I type : 0 1 X SQ EXP X integratesign ->LST 5 GET { integratesign } HEAD Where integratesign is RS TAN I've got to integratesign on the stack, but when I type SAME, I've got the answer 0. What are the differences between them ? I've also tried it with the Sumsign (ie RS SIN ) and this time SAME returns 1. Alban. ==== Strange - I always get TYPE 18. (the SAME :) no matter what I do: Stack, EQW,CL; Alg: EQW,CL (CL=Command Line,) both ROM 1.18 & 1.19-6 VP > On the hp49 when I type : > 0 1 X SQ EXP X integratesign ->LST 5 GET > { integratesign } HEAD Where integratesign is RS TAN I've got to integratesign on the stack, but when I type SAME, I've got > the answer 0. What are the differences between them ? I've also tried it with the Sumsign (ie RS SIN ) and this time SAME > returns 1. ==== ebay item 1357634417 or follow this shortcut. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1357634417&ssPageName= ADME:B:LC:AU:1 ==== You could directly print what ever you have on the Filer Display for documentation purposes VP ==== > Is there a program that does symbolic fourier transform? not FFT but one > that gives the expression You mean a program that gives you the symbolic expression of an FFT? There is the command FOURIER for symbolic fourier coefficients of functions but that isn't what you want ? Greetings, Nick. ==== > I made a lotto program for a friends HP 48GX > Then later I tried to port it to my HP 49G > and it turns out that one cannot use APPLY > inside a FOR NEXT loop in the 49G > since that will lead to NEXT Error: > Bad Argument Type > but NOT if one is using DBUG and SST. > Replacing the APPLY structure with some string fiddling > resulted a working program, some this can be circumvented. > > VP > PS: The exact code is not revealed since I want others > to try out different programs using APPLY inside > a FOR..NEXT loop and to confirm this behavior... Confirmed. The simple thing: << 1 10 FOR I I 1 ->LIST 'F' APPLY NEXT > doesn't work. I get 'F(1)' on the stack and NEXT Error: Bad argument type! But << 1 10 FOR I I 1 ->LIST 'F' APPLY 1 STEP > does work. What a confusing machine! Greetings, Nick. ==== No, << 1 10 FOR I I 1 ->LIST 'F' APPLY 1 STEP > does not work. It gives different number of F(1) on the stack. But I suppose it should give 10 F(I) on stack, where I varies from 1 to 10. kkng > > Confirmed. The simple thing: > << 1 10 FOR I > I 1 ->LIST 'F' APPLY > NEXT doesn't work. I get 'F(1)' on the stack and NEXT Error: Bad argument type! > > But > << 1 10 FOR I > I 1 ->LIST 'F' APPLY > 1 STEP does work. What a confusing machine! > > Greetings, > Nick. ==== calculus of Engineering, please consult in the Eric Rechlin Web page (www.hpcalc.org) by typing ... caporalini, in the window search!. Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK ==== tripod, Autostar controller and case were stolen from the Department of Physics, Geology and Astronomy at The University of Tennessee at Chattanooga over the Memorial day weekend. If anyone sees these items offered for sale from the South East Tennessee, North West Georgia, or North East Alabama area over E-Bay or any other auction site, Web site, or newspaper add, please be careful. Other items stolen in the burglary were a Sony digital camera, a $4000.00 + Computer projector, a Fluke Model 87 Multi-meter and a VCR. If you see anything like this, especially if one person offers them for sale, please contact: Department of Public Safety The University of Tennessee at Chattanooga Mr. Dale McNeely Chief of Campus Police Chattanooga City Police Department Deputy Chief Steve Parks Non Emergency Police Services 423-698-2525 The University Bookstore was also hit. Any one person selling lots of a Red Flag. Harold A. Climer Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy U. Tennessee at Chattanooga ==== Fortunately your 49G is still in your possession... VP X ==== > Perhaps they have listen, don't forget that HP has a marvellous Java > Virtual Machine, called ChaiVM, that is specific for embedded > products.. and ChaiLX is its version for linux.. Check it at: > http://www.hp.com/products1/embedded/ Weird, they don't mention anything about EMSO the division supporting it closing down... ==== > Perhaps they have listen, don't forget that HP has a marvellous Java Virtual Machine, called ChaiVM, that is specific for embedded products.. and ChaiLX is its version for linux.. Check it at: http://www.hp.com/products1/embedded/ > > Weird, they don't mention anything about EMSO the division supporting it > closing down... Supporting exactly what? Chai products? Chai LX? Chai VM development? What about HP DE100C?? What is exactly HP embedded future? J.Manrique ==== > NK, > > i am running out of names for you :) Doesn't matter, my family name should be enough letters ;-) > with you and add strength. a new computer language would be made in > your name: > > NKuatable VPoNic machine language. > > we can add even more strength with my weight: > > NKtronic VoPuNacious RCOmBOtic machine language. > > anybody wants to add/change his/her (the 'her' is for Helen) name to > the train? Considering weight, this languange must be very strong, as my mass grows constantly. ;-) of POKE. As about her, well, presumably she'll add CALCOST and the like ;-) And the one and only Rcobo will add all commands that deal with telecommunications, matter transfer, pizza download, pepsi evaporation and laser dustification of cost calculations of some leaders at HP ;-) Greetings, Nick. ==== Wher can I buy ROM cards for my 48gx? ==== >Wher can I buy ROM cards for my 48gx? > www.calcpro.com or http://www.weinert-engineering.de/eng/index.html?calc These are two good sources. amccornack@cox.net ==== Im writhing a program in basic UserRPL. I have two questions. Please help me with the first if possible 1. How do i solve (h) in the equation : Q/(pi*D^2/4) = -2*sqrt(2*9.81*D*h/L)*log [(k/3.7*D)+(2.51*v) / D*sqrt(2*9.81*h/L)] if I use the Solve Equation built in application. i get the right answer. But i need 2 solve it within a program using data from a table/arry. This brings me 2 a second question. 2. What is the quickest way of reading out of an table of data substetuting the values into an equation. At the moment im using a combination of FOR's, COL vectors and LISTS, but if there is a builtin command or a quicker way please help. ==== You should solve the equation for 'h' algebraically, then simply write a user rpl program that performs those calculations. You could do this by hand, or try typing in the equation on the stack, then 'h', then the command ISOL to see if the HP will do the dirty work for you! As for reading data, there are many methods. You could try GET ing the information from a list, or putting the data on the stack and then PICK ing it. It depends on the amount of data you want to handle. Dennis ==== I already have a TI-89, but I've been planning to get an HP 49G to complement it while I'm in college. I'll be taking two semesters of engineering physics and at least two (but more likely four) semesters of calculus as a computer science major. So, I'm assuming that it would come in handy. I hadn't planned to get one this early, but now that I have the money and that it's future production is uncertain, I'm thinking about springing for one. Does anyone have any info as to how long it will be produced? Does anyone have any recommendations as far as must have programs? Are there any compilers available for higher level languages (not BASIC)? ==== > I already have a TI-89, but I've been planning to get an HP 49G to > complement it while I'm in college. I purchased a TI-89 before I bought an HP-49. I prefer the HP-49. My TI-89 hasn't had batteries in it for a while. >I'll be taking two semesters of > engineering physics and at least two (but more likely four) semesters of > calculus as a computer science major. So, I'm assuming that it would come > in handy. I hadn't planned to get one this early, but now that I have the I have just completed my calculus series(and Diff Eq. and Physics). Overall, a(any) calculator wasn't much of an advantage. I believe that is the sign of a good instructor. You have to learn the basics. What the HP-49 has done for me(that the TI didn't) was make me think(something you will understand over time, but I can't really explain) and to expand on what I have learned. I did enjoy using the calc in physics. Mostly for number crunching. > Does anyone have any info as to how long it will be produced? I bought a second one cheaply off of e-bay. As good as the one I paid full price for. danny ==== Maybe some good general advise if you are going to buy one: Before you hand over any money check the serial number on the back. The one I bought a couple of weeks ago turned out to be produced in 1999. These early models have some problems and it was quite hard to get it replaced by a new one. I was lucky that the shop (that provided some great service, the problem was the distributor) had a new one in stock. So, be careful. Check that the first number of the serial is a 0. Best wishes, Walter. > I already have a TI-89, but I've been planning to get an HP 49G to > complement it while I'm in college. I'll be taking two semesters of > engineering physics and at least two (but more likely four) semesters of > calculus as a computer science major. So, I'm assuming that it would come > in handy. I hadn't planned to get one this early, but now that I have the > money and that it's future production is uncertain, I'm thinking about > springing for one. Does anyone have any info as to how long it will be produced? Does anyone have any recommendations as far as must have programs? Are there any compilers available for higher level languages (not BASIC)? ==== > > Maybe some good general advise if you are going to buy one: > > Before you hand over any money check the serial number on the back. > The one I bought a couple of weeks ago turned out to be produced in > 1999. These early models have some problems and it was quite hard to > get it replaced by a new one. I was lucky that the shop (that provided > some great service, the problem was the distributor) had a new one in > stock. > > So, be careful. Check that the first number of the serial is a 0. What about buying online? I can get one from Amazon.com for much cheaper than locally. Is paying ~$60 more worth checking the back? ==== Unfortunately Amazon doesn't ship electronics internationally, at least not that I know. And I doubt if they really are that much cheaper there after you've added taxes and shipping & handling costs. $60 is quite a lot of money, and to me, no, a newer version wouldn't be worth that much. But I would recommend buying some protective sheets to stick on the screen. That's the first thing I did, even now I have a 'good' screen. The old one was terribly scratchy (without exaggerating, touching it gently with your fingernail was enough for a new scratch). But it's just a great machine. I'm very impressed. Walter. > Maybe some good general advise if you are going to buy one: Before you hand over any money check the serial number on the back. The one I bought a couple of weeks ago turned out to be produced in 1999. These early models have some problems and it was quite hard to get it replaced by a new one. I was lucky that the shop (that provided some great service, the problem was the distributor) had a new one in stock. So, be careful. Check that the first number of the serial is a 0. What about buying online? I can get one from Amazon.com for much cheaper > than locally. Is paying ~$60 more worth checking the back? ==== Unfortunately Amazon doesn't ship electronics internationally, at least not > that I know. And I doubt if they really are that much cheaper there after > you've added taxes and shipping & handling costs. > $60 is quite a lot of money, and to me, no, a newer version wouldn't be > worth that much. But I would recommend buying some protective sheets to > stick on the screen. That's the first thing I did, even now I have a 'good' > screen. The old one was terribly scratchy (without exaggerating, touching it > gently with your fingernail was enough for a new scratch). But it's just a great machine. I'm very impressed. Walter. Maybe some good general advise if you are going to buy one: Before you hand over any money check the serial number on the back. > The one I bought a couple of weeks ago turned out to be produced in > 1999. These early models have some problems and it was quite hard to > get it replaced by a new one. I was lucky that the shop (that provided > some great service, the problem was the distributor) had a new one in > stock. So, be careful. Check that the first number of the serial is a 0. What about buying online? I can get one from Amazon.com for much cheaper than locally. Is paying ~$60 more worth checking the back? ==== Oops. wrong message string. Sorry. > Unfortunately Amazon doesn't ship electronics internationally, at least > not that I know. And I doubt if they really are that much cheaper there after you've added taxes and shipping & handling costs. $60 is quite a lot of money, and to me, no, a newer version wouldn't be worth that much. But I would recommend buying some protective sheets to stick on the screen. That's the first thing I did, even now I have a > 'good' screen. The old one was terribly scratchy (without exaggerating, touching > it gently with your fingernail was enough for a new scratch). But it's just a great machine. I'm very impressed. Walter. > Maybe some good general advise if you are going to buy one: Before you hand over any money check the serial number on the back. The one I bought a couple of weeks ago turned out to be produced in 1999. These early models have some problems and it was quite hard to get it replaced by a new one. I was lucky that the shop (that provided some great service, the problem was the distributor) had a new one in stock. So, be careful. Check that the first number of the serial is a 0. What about buying online? I can get one from Amazon.com for much cheaper > than locally. Is paying ~$60 more worth checking the back? ==== ID=InDonesian, which is an old model You can wait, if you wish, the 49G saga will go on... BUT to learn it before you need it, buy it now!! VP Maybe some good general advise if you are going to buy one: Before you hand over any money check the serial number on the back. The one > I bought a couple of weeks ago turned out to be produced in 1999. These > early models have some problems and it was quite hard to get it replaced by > a new one. I was lucky that the shop (that provided some great service, the > problem was the distributor) had a new one in stock. So, be careful. Check that the first number of the serial is a 0. Best wishes, > Walter. > I already have a TI-89, but I've been planning to get an HP 49G to complement it while I'm in college. I'll be taking two semesters of engineering physics and at least two (but more likely four) semesters of calculus as a computer science major. So, I'm assuming that it would come in handy. I hadn't planned to get one this early, but now that I have the money and that it's future production is uncertain, I'm thinking about springing for one. Does anyone have any info as to how long it will be produced? Does anyone have any recommendations as far as must have programs? Are there any compilers available for higher level languages (not BASIC)? ==== I have one starting with ID01, and I don't think its bad. It is much better than the old one I got first. No rainbow effects, the part of the screencover that's not under the protective sheet I sticked on it seems to be scratch resistant. I haven't seen a Chinese one, but I think this only goes for older ones. But I might be wrong. Walter. Veli-Pekka Nousiainen schreef in bericht > ID=InDonesian, which is an old model > You can wait, if you wish, the 49G saga will go on... > BUT > to learn it before you need it, buy it now!! > VP ==== I have put up for auction at ebay a hard-to-find HP-10C RPN Calculator with manual . See the auction description for more info. This auction ends next Friday night. You can visit the auction at: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&us erid=sjthomas or do a seller search at www.ebay.com for ebay id 'sjthomas'. SJThomas ==== I am cureently writing a program and would like it to indicate which version of the MK it is using. I have only tested it on mine version 2.20 could you please test it on other versions. Here it is in SysRPL: :: # 50B PTR 08199 DROP ID>$ DUPLEN$ #4- #1+LAST$ &$ ; Arnaud ==== > I am cureently writing a program and would like it to indicate which > version of the MK it is using. I have only tested it on mine version > 2.20 could you please test it on other versions. ==== > I purchased an HP49G from www.chotkeh.com and would like to upgrade my > ROM from the current 1.18 to 1.19-6 but am paranoid the upgrade with > erase the (very expensive) Chotkeh software stored in flash. > > Has anyone successfully upgraded an hp49 with the Chotkeh software to > ROM 1.19 and would like to reassure me? > > Kevin Before you upgrade check with chotkeh and find out if they have also updated their software to work with ROM ver 1.19. I suspect it will work fine, but check with chotkeh before you upgrade. That is easy and is a safe precaution. ==== I'm useing this original emulator on my Laptop and have a problem. The system or CPU load is still 100% and the battery is empty very fast. More important, if I use the back key with my mouse or on the keyboard, the whole line I typed was cleared. So I'm not able to delete only one number like on my real HP. If I use EQW Mode it works normally, has anybody an idea??? Is there everywhere an homepage from the software's author??? ==== are you using the original HP emulator YorkeM or are you using Emu48? This high CPU load situation is typical for YorkeM, because of it's timer2 implementation. To solve the back key problem, use YUser.exe instead of YUserfast.exe. There are no newer versions available. But give Emu48 v1.30 a try. Christoph ScOrP schrieb im Newsbeitrag I'm useing this original emulator on my Laptop and have a problem. > The system or CPU load is still 100% and the battery is empty very fast. More important, if I use the back key with my mouse or on the keyboard, > the whole line I typed was cleared. So I'm not able to delete only one > number > like on my real HP. > If I use EQW Mode it works normally, has anybody an idea??? Is there everywhere an homepage from the software's author??? > ==== Seems you're using some old version of Emu48 (<1.1) Check on www.hpcalc.org under emulators. Raymond ScOrP schrieb im Newsbeitrag I'm useing this original emulator on my Laptop and have a problem. > The system or CPU load is still 100% and the battery is empty very fast. More important, if I use the back key with my mouse or on the keyboard, > the whole line I typed was cleared. So I'm not able to delete only one > number > like on my real HP. > If I use EQW Mode it works normally, has anybody an idea??? Is there everywhere an homepage from the software's author??? ==== on my desktop P3 800 task loading while emu was idle <1% calculations drove it up to ~6% ==== > Hey there, I was checking up on 49g availability with the only > distributor in the UK. They had stock but they said they'd check on > future availability with the HP representative. According to him > they're not bringing out new models but they are continuing production > and are bringing out an upgrade in september/october. Presumably that > just means moving up from ROM version 1.18. I thought this sounded X Nice rumor, David ! I hope that this is true...the 49G 1.20 ROM VP ==== oops, i forgot hp11c ==== hp25 hp41cv hp28s hp32sii hp48sx hp48gx hp49g unfortunately i can not remember all the features in all the calc's, but i sure do like them anyway. I sure hope a new one is in the making! ==== > Is it absolutely definite that HP is leaving the calculator market? HP's > website still seems to be showing them except for the 32Sii. Right, hp32sii is discontinued.. Perhaps Service Models will be available.. But oficially, hp32sii is ended. > > However, they are still available at www.samsoncables.com. After > word spread that the 32sii's were discontinued I notice the price > jumped from $60 to $70. But it's still worth it. It's a great > scientific calc for general number crunching, and is lightweight > and easy to carry around. > Yes, I like it very much since it fits perfect in my pocket.. I hope to get a hp42s soon (3-4 days from now).. Have fun, J.Manrique ==== I have now a 32SII & 17SII & 16C !!! I have totally forgotten how to program the 16C !! VP > Is it absolutely definite that HP is leaving the calculator market? HP's > website still seems to be showing them except for the 32Sii. Right, hp32sii is discontinued.. Perhaps Service Models will be >available.. But oficially, hp32sii is ended. However, they are still available at www.samsoncables.com. After word spread that the 32sii's were discontinued I notice the price jumped from $60 to $70. But it's still worth it. It's a great scientific calc for general number crunching, and is lightweight and easy to carry around. Yes, I like it very much since it fits perfect in my pocket.. I hope > to get a hp42s soon (3-4 days from now).. Have fun, > J.Manrique ==== > I have now a 32SII & 17SII & 16C !!! Why do people feel the need to post their list of calcs? Are you trying to sell them? Trying to impress us? Trying to make us jealous? BTW, does anyone know any hidden features for the HP Xpander? ;-) Bye. HPCC member #1046 - ==== Avenard tells (little) about the new added commands here: http://www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/49.html X > Anyhow, what is PUSH & POP?...I could not find them in AUR or other > references. I assume those are stack operation commands (like assembler > language), but no explanation anywhere. PUSH pushes your flags and path into a list of lists in ENVSTACK variable in the CASPAR directory on your Home dir POP pops a level in case you have several subroutines in quite a different paths or if you use several different flag settings VP ==== All right VP, I have tried these commands and understood they are very > Avenard tells (little) about the new added commands here: > http://www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/49.html ==== I don't know anything about programming a 49, but on a 48, you could do something like: << { HOME CALC1 CMD1 } RCL EVAL > But if all you want is to get it out of sight, you could just store it to a port, or better yet, create a library with those subroutines listed in the $VISIBLE variable. Hope that helps some. ==== > I don't know anything about programming a 49, > but on a 48, you could do something like: Reference documents says User-RPL of 48 and 49 is basically compatible. > << > { HOME CALC1 CMD1 } > RCL > EVAL > But if all you want is to get it out of sight, > you could just store it to a port, or better yet, > create a library with those subroutines listed in > the $VISIBLE variable. This suggestion is probably next step for me. But I note it. Kenji Yokohama, Japan ==== > Anybody has an dump of HP71 ROM? I want it only to play with Emu71 for DOS. [noticed that i am not posting almost nothing here?] I have an 71, BTW. but NO HP-IL... :-(((((((((((((((((((((((((999 > -- > HPhreacker - Brazil. > TI-8x/92+ user. > Used HP-10/11/12/15/71/75. > Uses HP-16/28/38/48/49. > Web Site HP48: www.hp-48.cjb.net > E-Mail: hphreacker2k@SPNAMO.yahoo.com > (remove the random NOSPAM string perm.) ==== > You must not understand the concept of mathematical proof--b.t.w. > DERIVE says 0^0 is 1 and Mathematica says it is Indeterminate, so what > does that prove? That I am confused... :-P > Roger vIRCiated(reading from a friend's computer) ==== > Is it 'hphreacker' again? > > Same massive posting, > same bad reply format. > Sorry, it's really too hard to read for me. wtf is my bad reply format? do u want a 33KB sig? I will put ascii art if you want. > The following may be an interesting link for you: > > BTW: since this is a 'real-name' newsgroup I'd appreciate > it if you forgot about these childish pseudonyms (which are filtered out from > now on;-) Do as you wish. ;-) If you want to reach me, i am on alt.windows98. > Raymond ==== is it possible to build my own memory extension cards for the HP48 GX ? ==== Yes, it is possible to build your own HP48 RAM cards, if you know something about electronics it would help quite a lot. I've made about 10 128kb RAM cards that are working very well for about one year. The cost of each stays in 12~18 Euro. Besides the trouble in creating the 'board', it could be difficult to find the memory chip. Paulo Pinheiro > is it possible to build my own memory extension cards for the HP48 GX ? > ==== Benoit SERRA escribi.97 en el mensaje > is it possible to build my own memory extension cards for the HP48 GX ? > Of course. I don't know how, but sure it's possible. But be practical.... http://uuhome.de/oklotz/index_e.html ==== In message <3CECB1E5.FC81C793@pallas.com>, >Not really. But thought of many times. I think taking a Palm or Visor >and adding a decent calculator style keyboard should be a reasonable >way. Close, but there's a better way... >Rewriting all the numeric and algebraic stuff in portable C code and >making nice interfaces to the hardware dependant parts (display, >keyboard and I/O) is a huge amount of work. There will be no time left >to solder the selfmade calc from crap parts. ...indeed... >And after all you need a installed base of compatible hardware to get >the open source development of your calculator software going! What is the biggest installed base of mobile, handheld units the world over? Answer: mobile phones. You should write your calc in Java and then you can run it on the Java-enabled mobile phones that are now springing up. No need to worry about IR - just SMS your calculation to a friend. Got GPRS? Then just open up a TCP/IP connection and send it directly. Port 18512 is HP in ascii so maybe we should reserve it now? -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== In message , >related, HP must GPL the source code. At least that is how I remember >it. I wouldn't bet on it. No court is going to enforce the GPL then only code based on it *after* then is obliged to be released as GPL also. This doesn't mean that the OS can *never* be GPL'd but provision for it to be so would have to have been included in the contract that the -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== Le's say they GPL the code... who will work on it, and what will we do with it? Are we (well, not me anyway, but there are a handful of ppl here capable enough) going to try to patch up the rom? Put neat things in there like variable size UART buffer (for tcp/ip/ppp) hehehe ==== I sub-sub-contracted a small part of the WinXP Server code of the Advanced Dataserver of MS Win 2002 Server. After that the whole MS OS Server XP should be under GPL !! Contact MS, enforce it, and enjoy it for free! VP - bull***ng again... PS: So there will never be a free HP 49G OS source code.... > In message , > related, HP must GPL the source code. At least that is how I remember it. I wouldn't bet on it. No court is going to enforce the GPL > then only code based on it *after* then is obliged to be released as GPL > also. This doesn't mean that the OS can *never* be GPL'd but provision for it > to be so would have to have been included in the contract that the -- > Bruce Horrocks > Hampshire > England > bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== > UTool does this for unit expressions, but not for normal real numbers. Yes it is. > You can either add a unit to the number and use the functions in > UTool. For reals numbers on the stack, there are UserRPL programs by > J.H. Meyers for the HP48 which very likely will work on the 49G as > well. > > http://ca-on.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1649 These programs are also great. But for 49G, NORM function in casioeng.txt is not working properly, while it is fine in 48G (EMU48). Because 49G always insert . char after real number in any display mode. Therefore, it is necessary to add SREPL command to remove . char. > IFTE E SWAP + + @ Insert E between mantissa & exponent shoud be IFTE E SWAP + + . SREPL DROP Kenji Yokohama, Japan ==== > IFTE E SWAP + + @ Insert E between mantissa & exponent KN> shoud be KN> IFTE E SWAP + + . SREPL DROP I guess you don't want to get rid of all decimal points? The second + must therefore be after the replacement operation: IFTE E SWAP + . SREPL DROP + - Carsten ==== I cut and pasted the if line with the following as directed - IFTE E SWAP + . SREPL DROP + When I have a number on stack 1 and press ENG> or ENG< I get a bad argument. Is there something more I need to do? Chris IFTE E SWAP + + @ Insert E between mantissa & exponent KN> shoud be KN> IFTE E SWAP + + . SREPL DROP I guess you don't want to get rid of all decimal points? The second > + must therefore be after the replacement operation: IFTE E SWAP + . SREPL DROP + - Carsten > ==== CB> I cut and pasted the if line with the following as directed - CB> IFTE E SWAP + . SREPL DROP + CB> When I have a number on stack 1 and press ENG> or ENG< I get a bad CB> argument. Is there something more I need to do? This is probably because you have all the reals in the program ENGX as integers. The fastest way to fix this is - switch to approximate mode (from the MODE/CAS screen, or using the shortcut RightShift-Hold-and-ENTER). The = in the status line should change to ~. - put the ENGX program on the stack - Edit with DOWNARROW - Press ENTER to recompile. All integers in the program will now be reals. - STO the program back into the ENGX variable. This should fix it, but you also need to use reals as an argument, not integers. Thus enter 1. instead of 1. As an alternative, you can also download the new version of the UTool library (now at http://zon.astro.uva.nl/~dominik/hpcalc/utool28.zip , soon at hpcalc.org). It's commands ENG^ and ENGv now work for both numbers and unit objects. John's programs change the number into a string which later must be converted back to a number with the NORM command. UTool only tags the number with its modified representation. The NORM command therefore become unnecessary. - Carsten ==== This happens for norm and engx as well. I cut and pasted the if line with the following as directed - IFTE E SWAP + . SREPL DROP + When I have a number on stack 1 and press ENG> or ENG< I get a bad > argument. Is there something more I need to do? Chris > IFTE E SWAP + + @ Insert E between mantissa & exponent KN> shoud be KN> IFTE E SWAP + + . SREPL DROP I guess you don't want to get rid of all decimal points? The second + must therefore be after the replacement operation: IFTE E SWAP + . SREPL DROP + - Carsten ==== > KN> IFTE E SWAP + + . SREPL DROP > > I guess you don't want to get rid of all decimal points? The second > + must therefore be after the replacement operation: > > IFTE E SWAP + . SREPL DROP + Indeed. :-) KN ==== UTool does this for unit expressions, but not for normal real numbers. Yes it is. > You can either add a unit to the number and use the functions in UTool. For reals numbers on the stack, there are UserRPL programs by J.H. Meyers for the HP48 which very likely will work on the 49G as well. http://ca-on.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1649 These programs are also great. But for 49G, NORM function in > casioeng.txt is not working properly, while it is fine in 48G > (EMU48). Because 49G always insert . char after real number in any > display mode. Therefore, it is necessary to add SREPL command to > remove . char. > IFTE E SWAP + + @ Insert E between mantissa & exponent shoud be IFTE E SWAP + + . SREPL DROP Kenji > Yokohama, Japan ==== 1. Is hp's web site the only place to get the pc connectivity kit? Is there a better price anywhere else? 2. Is it possible to lower the volume of the calculator's keyclick and beeping? Chris ==== > 1. Is hp's web site the only place to get the pc connectivity kit? Is > there a better price anywhere else? > > 2. Is it possible to lower the volume of the calculator's keyclick and > beeping? > > Chris you can download the connect program for free and my calculator came with with the cable(yours may have also came with the cable). THe keyclick and beeping can be turned off completely by pressing the MODE button and then changing the settings. ==== with the calculator was just for connection between two calculators. But there was a D pin connector in there after all. 1. Is hp's web site the only place to get the pc connectivity kit? Is there a better price anywhere else? 2. Is it possible to lower the volume of the calculator's keyclick and beeping? Chris > you can download the connect program for free and my calculator came > with with the cable(yours may have also came with the cable). THe keyclick and beeping can be turned off completely by pressing the > MODE button and then changing the settings. ==== 1) Read the instructions first 2) Open the case (loose the warranty) 3) put think tape etc. around the buzzer plate 4) glue the calc back together with a droplet of superglue 5) test and find out that you have to re-open the case 6) re-open and use more material around the buzzer 7) try to glue it, but then it's too thick to fit 8) try to add a stripe to both upper & lower parts of the calc to make room, but, ...you squeeze the super-glue tube and you've got the first Held-Hand Computer attached to your left wrist 9) the buzzer is still too load and - because of the conductive glue inside the case - continuously on and resonating with the case - you're already mental.... 10) seppuku/hara-kiri is not the answer - and why didn't you read these instructions first anyway - because - finally: 11) Don't do it ! > 1. Is hp's web site the only place to get the pc connectivity kit? Is > there a better price anywhere else? 2. Is it possible to lower the volume of the calculator's keyclick and > beeping? Chris ==== How about if I just hold the calculator farther away from my ears. Better yet, whenever I expect a beep I'll run into the other room so it won't hurt my sensitive ears. Or I could us a long pole... > 1) Read the instructions first > 2) Open the case (loose the warranty) > 3) put think tape etc. around the buzzer plate > 4) glue the calc back together with a droplet of superglue > 5) test and find out that you have to re-open the case > 6) re-open and use more material around the buzzer > 7) try to glue it, but then it's too thick to fit > 8) try to add a stripe to both upper & lower parts > of the calc to make room, but, ...you squeeze > the super-glue tube and you've got the first > Held-Hand Computer attached to your left wrist > 9) the buzzer is still too load and - because of the > conductive glue inside the case - continuously on > and resonating with the case - you're already mental.... > 10) seppuku/hara-kiri is not the answer - and why didn't you > read these instructions first anyway - because - finally: > 11) Don't do it ! > 1. Is hp's web site the only place to get the pc connectivity kit? Is there a better price anywhere else? 2. Is it possible to lower the volume of the calculator's keyclick and beeping? Chris ==== > If you have a look, you'll see that you have the SORT local variable: LAM #1 > It should contains a bint with the following value: > #0: type, #1: name, #2: size #3: inversed type, #4: inversed name, #5: > inversed size > > It's #1+ on that and #0 for nosort!!! > Confirmed, { NOSORT 0 16 :: BINT0 7PUTLAM DROP ; } Yes, you solved the problem, thanks. Slightly shorter and not in the menu but on the U-key this kind of an UNSORT option looks as { NULL$ 0 16 :: DROPZERO 7PUTLAM ; 26 } > It's not supported while JYA don't provide it as > stable which really, as programer looks like a nightmare. It seems unlikely that JYA will change the LAMSs in the first and second environement because the filer runs fast and stable. The only what he might do is to integrate our suggestion to assign UNSORT to the non-shifted U - heaven forbid to alpha U ! PS. I'll update Filers in two hours, I've to rewrite the text and probably produce a Filer with a 1-page appl menu and an option |KEYS| in it which displays the active filer keys. ==== Yestureday I tried installing Organizer on my HP49G. I've got package from hpcalc.org, and made the following: 1. Copied the library to HP (in binary mode). 2. Evaluated org11.lib (got Library 1144: Org.. on stack) 3. Purged org11.lib 4. Pressed '2' and 'STO'. According to docs I should have got (after off-on the calc) Org on LIB menu, but I didn't. The only thing I got is psedo-key 1144, that just puts the same Library 1144: Org.. on stack. What's wrong? ROM is 1.18. -- Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. ==== Is it somehow possible to create a custom menu that works in edit mode? I'd like to be able to toggle flag -73 (fontsize), but writing a program to do this in UserRPL and adding it to CST doesn't seem to work: {{ESIZE << IF -73 FC?C THEN -73 SF END >}} only beeps. Anyone any ideas if this is possible without completely hacking the editor? Walter. ==== WS> Is it somehow possible to create a custom menu that works in edit mode? I'd WS> like to be able to toggle flag -73 (fontsize), but writing a program to do WS> this in UserRPL and adding it to CST doesn't seem to work: WS> {{ESIZE << IF -73 FC?C THEN -73 SF END >}} WS> only beeps. WS> Anyone any ideas if this is possible without completely hacking the editor? Programs only run in the editor when you mark them with a TakeOver. You cannot write such a program in the normal editor, but you can create one. Here is how to do this for your example above: 1. Install the KEYMAN library from hpcalc.org. 2. Put your program on the stack. << IF -73 FC?C THEN -73 SF END > 3. Execute the KEYMAN command ->TO? You won't see anything change in the program, the change is invisible. But if you set flag -85, you will see that the first thing in the program in fact is a command called TakeOver, which marks your program as being allowed to execute in edit mode. Clear flag 85 again to return to normal display. 4. Build the menu in the following way: ESIZE SWAP 2 ->LIST 1 ->LIST 'CST' STO Now it should work. Note: If you edit the program or the menu with the normal editor (DOWNARROW), the TakeOver will disappear again. If you use RPLED in Emacs to edit the program or menu, this will not happen - but then you must program in System RPL... A warning: Since the minifont is smaller in height than the FONT7 and FONT8 system fonts, there is a problem with the display update in the editor if you toggle flag 73 while in editor. You may see things which are not there. If you have a large file, scrolling a few pages down and then back up usually fixes the problem. Also, if you work with system font FONT6, this has the same height as the minifont and toggling flag 73 works fine. Hope this helps. - Carsten ==== Is it somehow possible to create a custom menu that works in edit mode? It is if you program the menu y SysRPL. Each program must start with TakeOver. ==== STARTED(itor) may consist of << 0 ->HEADER -73 SF > while EXITED(itor) could be << 2 ->HEADER -73 CF > Maybe that helped enough... VP Is it somehow possible to create a custom menu that works in edit mode? I'd > like to be able to toggle flag -73 (fontsize), but writing a program to do > this in UserRPL and adding it to CST doesn't seem to work: {{ESIZE << IF -73 FC?C THEN -73 SF END >}} only beeps. Anyone any ideas if this is possible without completely hacking the editor? Walter. ==== > STARTED(itor) may consist of << 0 ->HEADER -73 SF > while EXITED(itor) could be << 2 ->HEADER -73 CF > > Maybe that helped enough... > VP If it didn't, you gotta fire up ASM and use the TakeOver entry. Funny, i thought the 49g editor had a fontsize toggle button available :/ Hey VP, how's it going? ==== the font while _in_ edit mode. Something like the BIG key in EQW. Walter. Veli-Pekka Nousiainen schreef in bericht > STARTED(itor) may consist of << 0 ->HEADER -73 SF > while EXITED(itor) could be << 2 ->HEADER -73 CF Maybe that helped enough... > VP Is it somehow possible to create a custom menu that works in edit mode? > I'd like to be able to toggle flag -73 (fontsize), but writing a program to do this in UserRPL and adding it to CST doesn't seem to work: {{ESIZE << IF -73 FC?C THEN -73 SF END >}} only beeps. Anyone any ideas if this is possible without completely hacking the > editor? Walter. ==== Maybe the APPSman let's you do it?! Wolfgang? > the font while _in_ edit mode. Something like the BIG key in EQW. > Walter. Veli-Pekka Nousiainen schreef in bericht STARTED(itor) may consist of << 0 ->HEADER -73 SF > while EXITED(itor) could be << 2 ->HEADER -73 CF > Maybe that helped enough... VP Is it somehow possible to create a custom menu that works in edit mode? I'd > like to be able to toggle flag -73 (fontsize), but writing a program to > do > this in UserRPL and adding it to CST doesn't seem to work: {{ESIZE << IF -73 FC?C THEN -73 SF END >}} only beeps. Anyone any ideas if this is possible without completely hacking the editor? Walter. ==== the font while _in_ edit mode. Something like the BIG key in EQW. I've the following assignment on rightshift-hold NXT (which is normally not needed): << If in Edit mode then toggle flag -73 else toggle flag -72, i.e., toggle Font/Minifont in either case > This cannot be written in UsrRPL but is easily made with Keyman and OT49 (using its general flag toggler Fl~) by the normal user who's not familiar with SysRPL. How doing it? Put << zint -73 Fl~ > on level 2, << zint 72 Fl~ > on level 1 and press IfE from Keyman. Then process the result with ->TO from Keyman and assign it with A?D from Keyman (keeps waiting for a key press) to rightshift-hold NXT or any other not needed shifthold key. That's all. Small zints needs less memory than reals, a matter if economy. Actually, since I like short programs I revised the assignment to have only one occurrence of the Fl~command. It looks as follows: :: TakeOver EditLExists? ITE BINT73 BINT72 UNCOERCE (this command makes a real from a bint) xFl~ ; PS. Another useful device. At the H-key (=MODE-key) I've the following assignment: << If long-pressed then toggle the three Header forms (no matter whether in Edit mode or not), else perform the standard operation of the MODE key > Again, this cannot be written in UsrRPL but is easily made by everybody with the Keyman-command IfL. You don't need even the standard assignment of the MODE-key, simply use the keycode of this key, 23.1, as the level1 argument of IfL. ==== Wolfgang Rautenberg schrieb: Raymond Hellstern solved the garbage problem in his version of the 48-MINEHUNT in a different way than I did on the HP49. > BTW: the only way not to have a garbage collection at some time is to avoid > pushing objects, thus avoiding RPL at all (rtn stk usage, etc). this seems not to be true anymore in ROM 19-6 because of its improved memory management. If a long lasting SysRPL-program cleans garbage at the right places and in time, no spontaneous garbage collection occurs. I veryfied this playing several hours with my latest version of MINEHUNT (6.2001). Here garbage collection is made in each move on the mines-field, just after a new black square is pushed into the HARDBUFFER. It seems that if the garbage amount is kept small all the time in ROM 19-6, the time amount for a garbage collection is very small as well. Why cleaning if seen from above that the floors are clean? :-) I don't know how JYA managed this, but it seems to work even if the not covered memory area is large. ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/games/ PS. My latest version of MINEHUNT contains a second library command, a fast and convenient manager for the number of mines and for toggling hidden/visible mines. No need to create Nmines anymore, no mysterious MPAR. Nontheless, I need only 2.1 KB. As a matter of fact, the original MINEHUNT isn't economically programmed, it's more a demonstration of the higher art of progamming on the HP-calcs. By studying the program, one gets aware of the skillnes and enthusiasm of its author. BTW, who was it? ==== many thanks to both of you. Seems I can finish the 49G version of SpeedMiner in the near future. Another question: =ThisKeyDnCb? EQU #26D17 =ThisKeyDn? EQU #26D1E Could you provide I/O parameters for both versions? Or the other way round: Does =ThisKeyDn? have the same parameters as on the HP-48? Raymond ==== > Could you provide I/O parameters for both versions? > Or the other way round: > Does =ThisKeyDn? have the same parameters as on the HP-48? As far as I can tell they do. I personnally prefer to use the Cb version which use the C register rather than A for input, programming habits I guess. Otherwise, just the keycodes have changed ==== ive downloaded some Lib files onto my hp49 when i look at them on my calc i see a few Xname files how do i use these? ==== How can I create Grayscale image for hp49 on PC. ==== DC> How can I create Grayscale image for hp49 on PC. ====