b6 does anyone know how to plot a 3-d conic ? (like x^2+y^2-z^2=4) . and what is the 'draw3dmatrix' good for ? Uhm... If you test your own product, it's *veeeery* likely the test is designed to give a score of 100% (Intel docet). Even some serious companies publish some c++ compiler comparisons such as: ACME C++ compiler standard, score 30%; ACME compiler WITH OUR ADD-ON library 99%; What an improvement!!! (this of course is not anyway referred to hp: I don't know what kind of testing they made; I hope they did some ;) yes, the community is working, but rom development is SLOW. I don't think it would be a good idea to make the rom sdk public, because it could generate confusion, but at least Micro$oft is *fast* in releasing patches (they come close to 1_patch/day...;) agreed. few MINOR bugs, but none was related to math/computing. So there was *trust* between me and the 48. All the commands were clearly defined and...uhm... deterministic. My Pocket Guide that came with the calc was missing half it's pages. When I called HP the only help they offered was for me to d/l the pdf and staple the missing pages into my pocket guide. Not very helpfull, wasn't impressed. At least the Pocket Guide is a usefull small package that can be carried with the calculator. I'm not sure if HP will send you the actual printed books, but hey, it's worth a shot. HP has been known to do remarkably friendly things in the past! (Remember the Unofficial Upgrade Kit?) Here are some numbers you may need: HP Calc Support: (970) 392-1001 Part Numbers: Advanced User's Guide: F1633-90401 Pocket Guide: F1633-90101 I'm not sure about the number of the regular user's guide, since I had to cut the back page out to send in the rebate. Another thing you could try is: http://partsdirect.hp.com/ I've never been able to order anything there because of my APO address, but people living in the Continental US can buy things there. HTH p.s. You might want to ask for a nameplate at the same time, if your pack didn't include one. Mine didn't. I will try to think of an idea on how it would be possible to customize more easily the built-in EDIT menu, so the integration of a tool like Emacs could be made transparent. Probably another library message. I would love to add regular expression search inside the built-in editor. Just something I want to make sure. Does it work with styles ? Most of the text tools I've seen so far can screw the text styles because they don't correctly replace the hidden character (which is not surprising as I've almost spent 2 months working on this). This is incorrect. In the messages about ACC you said that replacing two-line things with Emacs was difficult to get right, because the varying space on the left side if the code was indented by different amounts in different places. In my reply I said this would require regular expressions, and you asked me to define what regular expressions are since you often heared about it but nerver understood it. Yes, I asked you beforehand and documented this in Emacs.txt. In detail, I took - the DoL loop (very nice indeed) - The decompressor from OT49 (currently not used in Emacs, and written, if I remember correctly, by Jurjen Bos). - The LONG key detector from KEYMAN (based on my proposal and a code object from Jonathan Busby). Indeed, Wolfgang has made many suggestions how to improve the SysRPL code while I was still on the learning curve. And he contributed some code to MREC. I am quite surprised that you mention Regexp.txt here as well. Yes and no. It is quite complicated. The trick which made a fast implementation on the HP49 possible is to do without backtracking. While this limits the applications of regular expressions, it makes it possible to match in a single path without recording regexp states, tracking on multiple quantifiers etc, a huge speedup. As a side effect, Emacs regular expression will never get stuck in a never ending match as this can happen will full implemetations. All hail Pivo, he has done all the ML coding and has done a really incredible job. - Carsten The source is available from Carsten (full Emacs) or me (ASM coding) I think it does! It treats the three style bytes just as any three other bytes so an italic S in the regexp$ will match an italic S in the CMD but not a regular or bold S. I think this is another case of Rooman&Joey #5 :-) I'd have to do some testing but I think that it will work with styles. I can't see whyanything should go wrong. The problem is that the rest of (the routines used in) Emacs do not recognize styles so this may be confusing. Ah, replacing is not a problem here I think. The replace$ creator copies every character literally, except the groups of course which are taken from the CMD. Again no problem here. Try no, succeed yes! :-) It will work there, styles still have to be tested, any betatesters volunteers? == Yes, this will work. BUT: for for an italic H , the search string will have the style switching sequences before and after the H . The match should then fail. I just tried it, and indeed it fails. I think there is. Lets say you have world in the CMD. gone, cmdline. NO, I just tested it, and you are right! Since we use CMD_CUT etc to change the command line, this is done correctly by JYA's code. I thing I never suggested to you to mention me for that. I also didn't expect to be mentioned because my devices in the apps-menu construction, my urging you to merge extable and CAT and other proposals concerning Emacs's architecture. English: The example of regular replacement of BINT9 UNCOERCE by %9 is artificial and useless. Why don't you take and saves even 5 bytes. * Now literally Example J) in Regex.txt :) Das erste Example A) wuerde ich ersetzen durch Find comment line in UsrRPL, mit @ statt mit * Example b) sollte sofort das nuetzliche Wegnemen eines oder mehrere Comments in UsrRPL beschreiben. Das macht allen denen Lust, die kein SysRPL programmieren... English; The first example A) should be replaced by Find comment line UsrRPL, with @ instead of * Example B) should at once describe the useful removement of one or more Comments in UsrRPL. That will enjoy all those who do not program in SysRPL. * This became indeed the examples A) and B) in Regexp.txt Of a similar kind where all my suggestions to Emacs.txt I would normally not expect to be mentioned for suggested examples. I'd be content if Emacs was improved by them. morning it turned out that one of you or both misused my confidence to you in an unbearable extend. My crime is rea Please visit Colin Crofts homepage at http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/ for the HP38/39/40 stuff. Colin published an emulator package basing on Emu48 at http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/zipfiles/emulator.zip containing all the necessary files for the HP38/39/40 emulation, an installation explanation and some additional included files which you only can get there. With an update to Emu48 v1.27 from http://privat.swol.de/ChristophGiesselink/e48bp27.zip you have the lasted available version. I did some work on this, but it went on the back burner and I haven't looked at it for months. Maybe it's time that I got back to it. I'm sure that it's possible. It is possible, but the implementation is a bit difficult. I remember when I discussed this topic in December 2000 with James M. Prange (search this NG for the thread Controling an HP48 with An HP49 via Wire ). IIRC, the intrinsic problem was the lack of full buffer overflow control in the 49G wire transfer implementation when compared to the HP48G. If I found the 49G to be as functional as the 48, then I would have more reason to consider this worth doing. Maybe the next 49G ROM will help. I found it quite useful to be able to have printouts of both results and procedures for the previous calculators. To be sure, you can print from the 49G to a serial printer, or upload to a PC and print from there, but I prefer the narrow continuous-strip format and portability of the 82240 printers. What I'd really prefer would be a printer much like the 82240B that could also accept a wired serial connection and could tell the calculator when it was ready for more data, thus saving me the trouble of being careful to maintain the alignment and tinkering with the DELAY value. It's there: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/programming/82240bte.zip You might also find http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/programming/48techni.zip to be useful. I suggest http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/irdoc_v12.zip for information on what Marcel Flipse has accomplished. I would be very happy indeed to have such a device available; it's a shame that HP doesn't offer one, but I suppose that they have doubts as to how many they could sell. Well, for the method of sending data to the 48 by using the various built-in print commands, the lack of XON/XOFF serial flow control does indeed seem to be a show-stopper. I suspect that it also may very well prevent various devices designed to work with the 48 series from working properly with the 49G, but I surmise that not enough people have complained about this for HP to change it. I believe that it can still be done by using the Kermit protocol to send variables containing character strings. There are some difficulties: backslash notation for null, quotation mark, and backslash characters, and how to handle style and font changes. I believe that I (with the help of John H Meyer) have found reasonable work-arounds for the worst difficulties, so it's probably mostly a matter of convincing myself that it's worth the effort. am This has been already done, but with a PIC, as usual, check hpcalc.org... The control panel says the wireless link is up. A few months ago, it worked with a windows IR device. When IR activity is detected, an icon appears on the taskbar. I cannot get the activity icon to appear when I point the 48SX at the window. I am within 2 inches and aligned. I tried I/O OPENI. and sending a :IO:XX ARCHI. Still no icon The IR protocol on the 48 is different to that used on your notebook;-) Check out www.hpcalc.org for more info on this topic. I think detecting IR activity is independent of protocol. The only reference I can find to protocol is kermit. Win2000 supports IRDA-SIR a half-duples, serial link. Windows 2000 hasn't a IrCOMM layer by default that is needed for the communication with the serial Ir interface of some HP calculators. So I think, the working system didn't used Win2K or you installed a 3rd party product (i.e. for communication with mobile phones) to get the IrCOMM layer. 2nd, is this the same hardware that worked some month ago? There many differences in the IrDA hardware, so some are incompatible with the HP Ir one. The only documents about this, you'll find in this newgroup, some are from comparison about this topic in summer this year. I definitely should send it to Eric. I suspect it's the death knell for the calculator group. How do calculators fit into an IT/services organization? The calculator group, in its historical role as a provider of technical tools, would perhaps have been a better fit at Agilent. As a provider of educational tools for K-12, I can't imagine being interested in any of their products, even if they were competitive. Even that seems doubtful, with TI's dominance of the market. It would require too much effort for HP to justify. Anyway, Aaron pointed me to a bug in PowerPlot (all versions) and we just found out that this behavior also happens in the built in plotter. The problem is when we try to plot a graph where imaginary results appear in the middle of the calculation (not in the end). An example would be '1+sqrt(x)-sqrt(x)'. This should obviously just be the same as plotting y=1, but if you try it, you'll see that The built in plotter makes no difference between 1+sqrt(x)-sqrt(x) and 1+(sqrt(x)-sqrt(x)) while PowerPlot handles the second case including the negative branch :-) IMO, the behavior of PowerPlot is somewhat better , because the second case really equals one, while in the first case I think that the built in plotter and PowerPlot are right to ignore the negative branch, because the expression is read from left to right when no parenthesis are used. What do the math teachers or otherwise knowing of you say? Aaron also pointed out that: [he knows I'm posting here :-) - so it's o.k. quoting him] My, still unreleased, plotter has a setting in the setup form that reads Strict Complex? . This toggles weather complex imaginary parts below E-10 will be regarded as zero or not. When you check this option all calculated complex numbers will be taken strict (and not plotted if an imaginary part is different from 0.), when you uncheck this complex imaginary parts smaller than E-10 will be rounded to zero (in essence 10 RND) allowing them to be plotted. I have this option unchecked always. I don't like it either. People should be careful of results returned by the calculator, but they shouldn't have to know about the internal implementation (how you're handling the expression tree... perhaps they should not have to know even about the expression tree itself). Sounds as if electricity is starting to flow already :) The MES acts primarily on equations, which *determine* the set of variables, rather than the other way around; unlike menu 30, you can not add or remove variables to/from the MES menu (see below), although you can simply re-arrange their order, if you wish, using the *optional* MITM command. Recipe for successful MES initialization: Trivial example (without using MITM at all): { 'Miles=Mph*Hrs' 'Hrs=Mins/60.' } STEQ MINIT MSOLVR [please pardon the quaint americanized non-metric system :] Now you see the default menu which MES builds for you, with all the variables found in the actual equation set. If you want to re-arrange the default variable order, then create a title string on the stack, e.g. Car Trip Now type an empty list: { } [leave the cursor inside the list] Now press the MES solver menu keys in the order in which you want the variables to appear, making sure that you press *every* variable key exactly *once* [but not the ALL key, etc. :] e.g. { Mins Hrs Miles Mph } Now press ENTER, then type or press MITM. There you are! If you want to put all this into a program, for future reference, it might be: << { 'Miles=Mph*Hrs' 'Hrs=Mins/60.' } STEQ MINIT Car Trip { Mins Hrs Miles Mph } MITM Note that the second line of the program is entirely optional. Note that I sneaked an optional empty string into the optional menu list, which makes an optional blank separator menu label. Of course, your mileage may vary :) Now, if you are using the current HP49G rom [1.19-5 or so], your mileage will start varying from the HP48G version the moment you start trying to solve for anything -- but that's a whole other story, and we don't want to open up that can of worms over the picnic tablecloth ;-) http://www.hpcalc.org/ PRG: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/programming/ hast Du schon www.hpcalc.org durchforstet? Ist im Handbuch nichts enthalten (kicher;-) Raymond me is there a possibility to make the calc display all exp(..) as e^.. as the stack-enhancements on the 48 do - it looks much nicer that way?! so on still return things in the exp-form. . . CFU Not as far as I know. How annoying! Maybe one of the stack enhancements handle this differently; I know little about them. Actually, there certainly is a possibility, it's just not a good one. You could turn algebraic objects on the stack into strings, change EXP(n) to e^n, and then turn them back into algebraic objects. Automatically, of course, and you wouldn't care for this to happen unless you see the result. Try this: 1: Y*EXP(5*X) (just as an example) { 'EXP(&A)' 'e^&A' } |^MATCH where |^ is the uparrow character. This returns 1: Y*e^(5*X) HTH Thomas -- Thomas Rast t.rast@iname.com At one point in the HP 49G development process there was some talk about a possible implementation of INTEGERASSUME. Does anyone know if Prof. Parisse might still want to add this functionality in the future? Along similar lines, does anyone have an implementation of solving generalized Pell equations and systems of Pell equations written out for the HP 49G. I'm not so much interested in the use of the program as I am with the algorithms used. Perhaps someone knows of some good websites that deal with this type of stuff. I'll even look into some books if I have to (can't buy any though...bought too many abstract algebra references this semester! :-). --Rahul Hor 216 Yes, this seems to work for the first system but not the second. In any case, I was more interested in a symbolic answer. For example, for the first system, I wanted to find X = the cube root of 2. I know this is quite simple by transforming the above equation into X^4-2*X, but I was just wondering why the 49G CAS cannot solve these systems on --Rahul Hor 216 With the flags { #484038C85250FF0h #0h #5810400A200008h #0h }I can get this solution for the first set: {['X=-sqrt(sqrt(2))' 'Y=sqrt(2)'] ['X=sqrt(sqrt(2))' 'Y=sqrt(2)'] ['X=-(i*sqrt(sqrt(2)))' 'Y=-sqrt(2)'] ['X=i*sqrt(sqrt(2))' 'Y=-sqrt(2)']} I get an Bad Argument Type error on the second one, which probably is from numeric factorization being called upon a symbolic expression. I'll report this bug - numeric factorization is not necessary, and the HP49G should be capable of a symbolic answer. chance). By the way, aren't you working on a function plotter for the 49G? Are we going to see that soon? best wishes, --Rahul Hor 216 Lets call Algebraic 'infix' and Reverse Polish 'postfix', and say that both of these are both mathematical notations, which is to say that they are ways to express mathematical operations. Since they both intend to do the same thing, in different ways, there are going to be some differences in when they're used. When is infix used? Well, infix is really good at compactly and clearly expressing mathematical operations on paper. When you're writing an algebraic expression with a pencil, you're probably going to write it infix. Conseqently, people learning math tend to see a lot of infix and tend to use a lot of infix. Most school math happens with a pencil and paper =) I haven't said yet that postfix is bad for this sort of thing, so I'll say it now: postfix is bad for this sort of thing. The closest that comes is vertical addition, subtraction, and multiplication styles of arithmetic. If you don't believe me, take a pencil and a piece of paper and see yourself how they compare. When is postfix used? Well, one place postfix /isn't/ used in is compilers for programming languages with infix expressions, because postfix is a notation and notations are for humans. OK. So when do humans use postfix? We use postfix in some languages where functions take their operands from a stack, for various reasons. Postfix expressions encode the order of their evaluation explicity, unlike infix, so they're easier to evaluate. You just read left to right, and keep intermediate values in your head... or a stack. You can enter an infix expression directly to an HP calculator and it'll keep those intermediate values on the stack for you, and the answer too. Have I missed anything? OK, negative points: Infix notation, great for paper where you've two dimensions to deal with, aren't so great when expressed in a calculator input window when you typically only have one dimension to deal with. It's really not as pretty, and complex mathematical expressions, succintly expressed on paper, become tedious when entered into a calculator. For one thing, you don't really get all of the typical infix mathematical notation. You don't vertical bars for division. You don't superscript for exponentation and subscript for differentation. You don't concatenation for multiplication sometimes and you really probably don't get the Log notation right, which is ugly anyway. Some operators get functionalised, and you don't have as many ways to express some common operators. So infix notation isn't usually a hot thing for a calculator. I don't know how people can stand it! (But fortunately you have 'textbook' displays, and some good HP calculators have really nice ways of entering infix expressions, so it's not so bad as the above.) As for postfix... Well, I've already expressed all the negative points to be had. It's harder to deal with on paper, and isn't as compact as infix on paper. For the purposes of a human being, there are only two differences between postfix and infix: 1. you have to learn a lot more notation to handle infix. 2. when writing postfix you have to make explicit some ordering that is generally ignored with infix. You kind of 'optimize' expressions along a particular dimension. This makes it somewhat harder for infix-trained people to do make the kind of adjustments and reorderings that you do when evaluating algebraic expressions by hand, but this just brings us back to the original negative point of postfix, and is really trivial when you're dealing with a calculator. Have I missed anything? One point I'd like to make is that your typical argument against infix or postfix notation, the argument applied to both notations by proponents of the other(!), is bad. The argument goes like this: Gee, but infix doesn't make sense! How can be adding two [expressions] together when you don't have one of them? difference again. The calculator can't anticipate what you're going to type in as the other operand (and it doesn't), but the paper has the operand right there. A human can deal with notations in braile if he wants, or a notation where you add two numbers if they're of different size, or on opposing corners of a box. This argument is irrelevant to evaluation. The only point it makes is that, indeed, with infix expressions you generally enter the entire expression before you evaluate it, whereas with postfix expressions you can enter them as you read them, and get intermediate results. also, Gee, but postfix makes no sense! When *I* add numbers, I want the number, what I'm doing, and then the next number. My feeble mind cannot handle two numbers at a time, or a whole expression and a number at a time. Well that's too bad. I feel for you. Sorry, I'm going to have to cut this short -- I have to leave now! There's one other argument I wanted to deal with, which is ... nevermind. It appears to be a great program to keep track of money. I can't get it to work on my 49. I used it with success for 1 week and using 1 account only. Once I created a second account, it crashed the calculator and does not work even with 1 account only anymore. Everything else is OK with my calc. Any ideas?? that i couldn`t response to myself. First, there are some unsupported commands releated to arrays (i don`t think is a problem of those commands) that i don`t know how to use as the command ARRYEL?. The address of it is 03685 (check please) and i have tried this using ASSEMBLE ... RPL Forgot, another thing that catches me out if I haven't backed up for a while is that it's the standard RS then EVAL not a simultaneous press of RS & P. The manuals are pretty poor on indicating when they mean one or the other. Did you correctly set up both the 49G and the PC before transferring? Greetings, Nick. Stephen, I have tried your suggestions. When I start the backup I get the window on the PC to show the backup progress, but all I see is the error counter increasing. No files get transferred. What comm settings are you using. I'm using Translation mode, checksum type 3. Aubrey. I just downloaded the 39/40 ROM in my 49G, and I am wondering which program I should use to download aplets in my transformed machine: the 49G's or the 39G's? What's the name of the program to be used? By the way, I am happily surprised by that 39G. Still have my 48 though ... -- Thierry Morissette Tried it. Seems the 39G program is the one to use. -- Thierry Morissette pMcG7.26384$gR5.1851456@weber.videotron.net... program the ... When I was beta testing the 39G using a ROM downloaded into a 49G it behaved in every way like a 39G, including expecting you to use the 39G's comms software called HPGComm. Go to my Utilities page and you can download the latest version if you haven't already got it. Or go to the author's site (James Bergamin). You can also find instructions on how to use it at my site if you haven't figured it out (it's not hard). PS You may find that it's easier to use the emulator to explore the 39G since that way you get the proper keyboard too. I agree that the 39G is a great calc. -- Colin Croft ====================================== Applications in Mathematics ccroft@iinet.net.au http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/ ====================================== program the ... behaved in software version Bergamin). since I have been using my 48G on cold mornings and it has crashed a few times requiring the ON-C reset. Enviromental limits are listed at 32F(ZeroC) but I am running well above that temperature. Seems to be more reliable when the device warms up. Has anyone had a problem with this? http://www.Gnarlodious.com/ I have the 48GX which I used out of office in the coldest days of winter. No problem. Only the display loses a little contrast and is a bit less responsive in the cold, but when in warm again it regains its contrast and update speed. Greetings, Nick. I am having some problems doing indefinate integrals on my 48GX for my calc III and diff equations classes. I know that it doesn't support many integrals but was hoping to find a program for it that would. Unfortunately, most of what I have found either uses the calculators own deffinitions or may be too big, I just found erable and am going to look at it. I only have the original 128k of mem and can't afford a RAM card so programs like erable may be too large for me. Any suggestions?? Kevin for some reason my 49g refuses to talk to HPComm 3.0r4? some form of communication is going on, as both calculators give various positive responses. the 48sx displays: connecting processing command Then the PC connectivity software displays a connection failed dialog box. The 49g acknowledges that it is connected with awaiting server cmd and then reports invalid server command Also I can not pick the 49G as a type from the comm settings dialog box PLEASE HELP, i need to upgrade my 49g rom and archive stuff. THANKS! Has the connectivity kit ever worked with the calculator, or is this the first time you have used it? Did you check cables and communication setting on both the calc and the PC? Dennis it is the 1st time use. I did finally get the 48sx working, but i REALLY need the 49g to function, so I can update the rom. The connectivity program does not have an option for 49G. I have to back up the 49g contents before I update the rom, or all contents are lost! What are the settings on both the connectivity kit and the HP49? Make sure both are ASCII or both BINARY. Dennis dgeve: I think that his project and yours may be complementary works First and second section of Programming in sysRPL by Eduardo Kalinowsky are a good start point. (Of course you know this book, do you?) Although it refers to HP48 models, many things, if not everithing at all, may be applied to HP49. Ciao, Marco Virgil inquired: This is, of course, the same as editing in Approx. mode and then just pressing ENTER, as was elsewhere suggested; it works on programs, lists, arrays, numbers, etc. as well. -[]- Lo people ! but a still have a newbie question ..... Can anyone tell me how to do text formatting on hp49 I want to put my phisics, math, and chemistry lessons in it, so i need to put equtions and etc ... The top notch would be to right the lessons on the PC then transfer them on the calc .... Thx in advance .... I use Lupa for that purpose, and works very good, the only remark is that you have to convert yor formulas in grobs for pretty print view. Thx but how do i do that ? (i know im a BIG NEWBIE) Thx in advance ! Matthias You can assemble such texts with WinHP on your PC and transfer them to the 49. Install the TGV library to view them on the 49. Both programs are available from hpcalc. Greets, Marco the only problem I 've found with TGV is thai it doesn't use minifont reducing the number of characters per line. 1. Download from hpcalc lupa49 2. create on your pc, using your preferred text editor, a list containg all the information you want: ex: GROB 10 x 10 } 3. Load it in the calc 4. recall the list on the stack and launch lupa That's all I believe that TGV is just a straight port from the 48, no 49 or MK specific feature was implemented in it. Greets, Marco There's PrtyChem on hpcalc.org that converts strings to grobs for nicely-formatted chemical reactions. Physics and math you can mostly do in the equation writer, except that you'll have to use multiple-character variables instead of subscripts. There are tools to view text and grobs at the same time on hpcalc.org, if you even need to do that. Would something like an equation library work? *That* would be best? How terribly time-consuming! How horribly dependent it makes your calculator! How awfully tedious, that you need a computer accessible! 'Dune' is for the 49G, 'DuneGX' is for the 48GX. Both are available from hpcalc.org Here's what I have to say about Dune: This is a game similar to Warcraft, Starcraft, Red Alert, and such real-time strategic games for the PC. You are on a desert world, with great deserts, rocky 'islands', and mountains. You can only build on the rocky 'islands', and your units (your machines, that attack and explore and have various uses) can't cross mountains. In the deserts you find great worms, that move consume units, and spice-rich areas. Spice is your principle resource, which you need to build everything, and there's a finite amount of it in each area. You start out with a building the sole job of which is to build buildings, and some units. In later levels I think you start out sometimes with more buildings. This game has levels; in each one you start out in some rectangular area of the planet. Your enemy also occupies this area, and you have to destroy him =) -- meaning that you have to destroy his buildings. While destroying him you harvest spice with special spice-harvesting units, you fight battles with your many war-machines, and build more buildings to * generate energy, * hold more spice (if you harvest more than you can hold... too bad! you lose the excess), * repair units * attack enemy units, and * generate units. You can also lay down concrete and something else (I forget at the moment) which units can pass over and which allow you to build a building a little farther from your other buildings (normally you have to build each building adjacent to a building you already have, and after a while it'll be hard for your units to navigate your own base -- this can be fatal!). In the game you can create 'mobiles', which are units that build the building-that-creates-buildings, and with these set up what I call 'outposts' on other rocky 'islands'. OK. This game is fast enough that I have never at any time noticed a delay in its action. It's beautiful enough to lend much atmosphere to the game, and to be generally impressive. It's gameplay is enough that I am only annoyed on a few small points -- and very little annoyed at these. You can move swiftly about the map, and yet also move with great precision -- done by a cursor operated by arrow keys for broad movements and the number pad for precise movements -- which is a wonderful idea, and I hope other such games imitate it. Moving about the map, selecting and employing units and buildings, is very easy and simple to do. You can call up a map, which gives you a general view of the area ('lo, there's my base and there's his base and there's my other base and here is a lot of spice). Here are the parts of the gameplay that sometimes annoy me: 1. There is no visual distinction between enemy units and friendly units. I can either simply know what's what through my masterful awareness of the location of my units or (most of the time) just select a suspicious unit and see if I get a menu to command it. If I don't, it's an enemy! There is likewise no visual distinction between enemy buildings and friendly buildings, but this is no problem. 2. The map isn't very good at showing units, and isn't at all helpful when I *know* that *somewhere* I'm being **ATTACKED**. The key, once again, is a masterful awareness of the exact locations and actions of all your units and the likely locations of your enemy. 3. When a great campaign is entered, and I'm trying to multitask at A) defending my base from constant attack, B) defending my harvesters of spice, C) expanding and exploring, and D) attacking the enemy... I sometimes lose track of one of these and find myself hurt or beaten. One time I lost an entire outpost, every building smashed by probably a single unit -- because I was so busy defending myself and exploring that I didn't notice the messages that flash to tell me about each building being destroyed... You have to be *aware* of the map. Have I said that several times, yet? If you play the game, you'll quickly see what I mean. You can't get distracted; you can't not pay attention; you can't be slow in jumping across the map to command multiple operations. I'm not really sure if this is a bad thing, but it would be nice if I could see my enemy more easily. That's all that's bad. Really. When you exit a game of Dune it puts some data on the stack which, if on the stack when Dune is started, will continue your game at that point. I've written a simple program that handles this data for me. OK, I'll list a few important points about the game now: 1. it's graphics are *great*! 2. it's gameplay is *great*! 3. it's really, really fun! 4. it's almost completely in French, which is no problem except that I'm not totally aware of the instructions for each level. The gist of them is basic: kill the enemy. 5. it takes a little getting used to, even if you're familiar with similar games on the PC like Starcraft. I think that's enough about Dune. You should all go and get it now, OK? I'd tell you more about the strategic points of Dune, but I worry that this would dimish your enjoyment of the game. You'll figure it out =) (note: for those of you who don't speak French, you should probably pick up a French-Whatever dictionary and look up the names of each unit and building. The function of each should then be evident.) HPTIDE version 0.3.2, a tide prediction program for the HP48 and HP49, is ready to go. Based on the popular WXTIDE by David Flater, there are over 2000 locations ready for your tide prediction pleasure. You can examine daily graphs as well as produce a tide table for your own locality. You can download hptide at: http://heygus.2y.net/hptide until the new version is posted at: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/apps/misc/ Dennis This is quite a trivial problem that is to be solved and I'm not sure if the error is due to some setting on the HP49 or otherwise: Equation: P = R^(-N) Specify: R = 0.001 N = 4 The solution (by using the normal calculation part of the HP49) is easily found as being 1E12. However, pushing the Solve button for P (or pusing it twice to watch its progress) results in the solver getting close to the answer, but then it bombs out with an Error: Bad Argument Value. You have to go into the memory to clear one of the variables in order to get back into the Solver environment (else it just keeps on bombing out over and over). I'm sure this is a feature related to the number of significant figures that can be displayed without resorting to scientific notation, but am I to understand that you cannot put in values in scientific/engineering notation in the Solver fields ? Kevin This is for the 48. On the 49 the ADISP GROB has always 64 rows. So you don' t have to resize it. I've decided to have a look into the xgcc sources (just for fun ;) but all the links I've seen point into http://www.concentric.net/~ramos/ which returns a 404 ~ramos not found on this server .... Does anyone know the current location of his page? If you've got the source code, could you send it to me? Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, t.rast@iname.com confuse them. X Haa - HP is finally *really* going back to it's roots: The measuring devices eg. Agilent is manifacturing the 12C CPU nowadays!!! Could this be true? Maybe they will make the future HP 5n GX models, too??! Veli-Pekka, STARTing rumors again....what NEXT ? I think calculators can be a very valuable marketing asset for Agilent. HP calculators have been the first contact with HP for engineering students, and I guess (this is only speculation) that it has had a strong influence on the preeminence of HP workstations (compared to Sun) in engineering shops. Of course, another factor is the excellent quality of HP instrumentation, now manufactured by Agilent. I think that Agilent would really benefit from the excellent brand image HP calculators have or used to have. Borja. P.S: I am not a marketing professional, just a curious observer. Not that I abandoned hope, but with all critisism against calculators there are 2 things possible: 1) We wont see an HP calculator again. 2) HP is aleady working at some future model, which is going to be the absolute breaker. And they don't want anybody to even assume that the next thing is coming up. I dream about the second possibility. :-) Hmmm, perhaps they (HP) need some convincing (assimilating) arguments, to make the HP 5n GX. Should we send rcobo, assimilate them and convince them to do the right thing? Nick. (willing to join the rumors stream :-) ) Karagiaouroglou says... yes, yes, they need to believe. seeing is believing. they need to see the making of the machine. they will be assimilated. 3 of 3 to mainBorg: Comms protocol set to red_alert. Testing assimUnit......OK Testing convinceUnit...OK Testing screwDriver....OK All subsystems up and running. Ready for assimAction. 3 of 3 awaiting further commands. Beep Beep! Nick. maybe in the future, as people should never say never. definitely no. Mon capitaine, I am glad that you said this. :-) Sometimes definitely no is definitely yes. Or do we expect that if HP has such plans, they would tell anybody? Of course not. They would always say no . So for us, outside HP, there is no way to know if no is no or if no is yes . So the only possible thing for me is wishful thinking. Anyway, thank you for still being here in the group JYA. (And have me getting on your nervous with my wishes on a new calc ;-) ) Nick X With a moderate cost the Saturn CPU could be scaled down using a smaller process nad thus we could have a Saturn XP with X fold Power. I would easily buy a HP 50 XP costing 300 USD or Euros if the speed would ten-fold. It could be done by Palo Alto group. Veli-Pekka PS: Ofcourse this would only be a temp solution... What if the speed would be 500-fold, and the price USD 250? ;-) I love RPN and quality HP calculators. I've never owned a TI that lasted more than a year before it went from an expensive toy to a cheap piece of shitty plastic with the worlds poorest keypads (not counting the HP-31/32/33/34 switches which were on a par with TI's). I've been an HP user since 1977. The raw computing power in a Pocket PC (even my $199.00 Jornada 525) so overwhelms the processor speed and memory capability of an HP-48GX or an HP-49G that I don't see a real need to have a dedicated piece of hardware called a calculator in the future, though for sentimental reasons I'll continue to keep a 48GX at home, one in the office and back them up with my HP-15C, HP-42S, two HP-28Ss and when the enemy is finally at the gate and I'm too old to read the LCD screens, my HP-67 with its non-continuous memory and its bright little LEDs. After that, I'll fall back to my Post Versalog and my K&E Log Log Decitrig. :-) I expect that it will be a lot easier to have a killer calculator living next to WORD and EXCELL in a fast Pocket PC than in any other hardware form. This is not what I want , but it seems to make sense that it is the direction things are heading. This disassociation of hardware and calculator may make the calculator world a frightenly powerful place to live. Just my $0.02 Jim Klein (snip) Other than disbanding ACO, what have they done? (snip) The ROM's future is uncertain right now. JYA has mentioned that he will try to see it GPL'd, and a lot of people have supported this with their voices here if nothing else. If the ROM goes GPL, it is basically freed for public use, modification, and redistribution; so a good hacker could fix a few bugs, add a few features, optimize a few routines, and release the hip new 20-x-jrf7Dec2001 ROM, and communicate his improvements. You could have patch sets, and development tools, and modular ROM distributions, and groups of people working on different parts of the ROM, and all *kinds* of such neatness. We'll have, basically, our own operating system to improve and play with on hardware we've bought with our peers. Anyway, I think you overestimate the place of the ROM; the 49G is pretty extendable any way you look at it, so it's not as if you are *doomed* if the ROM is static and opaque. Case in point: I notice that nobody has bothered to put a periodic table in ROM, yet! (and there's no graphical memory viewer, but just *look* at how many of those things people've made!) If you're a programmer, all existing code is a jumping point toward future improvement and developement and usefulness -- no matter what happens. Sure, in the year 2043 you may how to crack his library, and you can add the feature you always wanted to it! (This is a joke, of course; by 2043 we will have wristcomps.) This is certainly a danger, and as time passes it is a certainty. When those braincomps and wristcomps come, my 49G use will certainly plummet. The community will shrink too -- and, relatively, it's already shrinking, been shrinking, and will only shrink faster; TI is sucking up more and more people and few will care to hunt for other calculators when they A) do not know enough to know what they lack, and B) are satisfied with this ignorance. And as you've seen and as you can see in yourself, a lot of people seem to be taking ACO's departure as a deathtoll for the 49G; some of these will leave the community and use other calculators. More may never come, when the word is spread about how the 49G is 'unsupported'. So, if your concern is with the 49G community, I hope I've properly fed your fears. Hey, just by having a calculator you are way in the minority! And do you have a computer? Whew! Better not instigate Fortunately, you have either practical or ... nonpractical use of your 48GX, and have some idea of what the 49G will mean to you. If a TI-92 or somesuch will fit your needs and your personality, and you think the benefits of support and community outweigh the advantages of flexibility, extendability, and a really astounding number of man-years and ingenuity that exist in the 49G: fine! Buy the TI-92 and be happy with it and never look back. I'd never do this, but I don't have time to add the little footnote explaining why. Maybe tomorrow. (snip) If all we want to do is add and subtract, we don't even need the raw processing power of the HP48! Pocket PCs have their place. They have a nice front end for a majority of users. They can do more things out of the box. But that is also their limitation. In order to be as user friendly as possible, developers must try to think of everything everyone might want, so that each person can use the few things they need personally. The rest of the features are unused, wasting storage space, memory and sometimes processing power. It is this overhead that makes the Jornada 548 barely able to emulate the 4Mhz Saturn processor at normal HP48 speed. Perhaps rather than calling it a calculator, we should start referring to it as a personal graphics device or something like that. A device with a basic front end for the average user, with access to a powerful lower level language and also directly to the machine instruction set, enables users of varying capablilities to take full advantage of the units abilities. As to whether or not such a device is necessary, that will depend on what it CAN do, not on what it DOES do. And how impressively it does it. If you described PONG to someone 25 years ago, no one would have bought it. ( I saw this great game. It's like tennis, only you spin a knob to hit the ball back and forth. ) It was only when you played it that you had to have one :) Similarly the HP48 once wowed, now it takes a bit of knowledge of history to do so. A device with great potential, sold at low cost, and released among a large number creative and talented people, will sell itself exponentially. And make its developers very rich. Whatever this thing does, it must make everyone who sees it go WOW! Then they will buy it. Some will try to use it, some will learn to use it, some will do amazing things with it. But it will sell! Dennis Personally I do not want anything else that runs using any Microsoft software and it's bloated code. I do not need another computer that crashes. I have two already and that is enough. The reason we need faster processors and larger hard drives and more memory is that software developers have no incentive to design efficient code. If you read the latest issue of PC Magazine; faster processors have not really gotten us a far as they could, because of this factor. At least the designers of the 48 and 49 had the memory limitations to force them to become more efficient in their coding. I am afraid the lure of faster processor and more memory in a new HP calculator will lead to the same problems, especially if HP uses a Windows derived OS as a shortcut to get the calculator to market faster and does not write its own independent and optimized OS. I do not need a PDA since I have no need for spread sheets on the run and I do not go to meetings. For the most important people I know, I have either memorized their phone numbers or have them on my Timex watch. I see no need in having the numbers of 100 or more people on a PDA when I might call them once every two years. For that I use what is called a phone book. Harold A. Climer Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy U. Tennessee at Chattanooga X Only the Saturn CPU chip Yorke (along with the display pixel count) It's the software that counts. A new ROM 1.19-7 will appear AND in the meanwhile this group will find an answer withe or without HP's help !!! There will be new HP calculators from the new division in USA and the TI/HP are both good calculators. Suggestion: Kepp your HP 48GX (if you already own one) AND buy the 49G and you will have it all !!! (like I do) New division in USA? New calculators? Are you talking about new hp12 machines? Seeing hp39/40 math diferences between USA and Europe, I don't expect much mathematical power from USA HP products... J.Manrique CdU de la ETSIG Spending $18.4 billion to purchase Compaq when HP is already facing shrinking revenues for one. It actually makes me wonder if HP will go the way of DEC... (marginalized until someone who doesn't understand the value buys them out) That would be an excellent development of course! That is a great way to continue the evolution of the platform and to make the HP49 stay competetive. However, if my read of this is correct (that the hardware will cease to be manufactured at some point?) then it doesn't do a lot of good. People's HP49's will eventually break, wear out, get lost, etc. and without the ability to replace them, they'll have to revert to something like TI. Of course (I've been a Debian developer for years). There is a Actually, I was not at all concerned about the ROM. I was concerned about the hardware platform. Seeing things like Java on my HP48GX I know how expandable the system is without even modifying the ROM. I am quite sure that the HP49G will more adequately fit my needs. The concern is this: if indeed the HP49G has now become a dead end as far as HP is concerned (this much even seems uncertain), everyone is going to be forced over to someone else sooner or later. How soon? I don't know. If HP stops selling graphing calculators tomorrow, I would suspect that even if the ROM is GPL'd and all the old hats stay around, there won't be a lot of work done. If HP continues selling the 49G for three or four years, then I'd buy one in an instant. I don't know what their plans are though. -- John Just to remind you that HP aren't spending any money at all on buying Compaq since it is an all share offer. The money comes from issuing new share-capital which means that all existing shareholders see their shares diluted in value by a fraction that is roughly equal to $18.4bn divided by the total number of HP shares currently issued. -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com The theory of such purchases is that the shares of the buyer are not diluted. After the purchase, there are more shares in the combined company, but the post-acquisition per-share value is comparable to the pre-acquisition value since the assets are now those of the combined company. Remember that at least in theory, the acquired company's assets are valuable and wind up owned by the acquiring company. In practice, the acquiring company often manages to screw up the acquired company and wind up with little value. For instance, just about every acquisition that AT&T ever did. Or Compaq's acquisition of DEC. (snip) (snip again my support, since anyone with a brain can come to the same conclusions) Scribe and Organizer, I think for both 48 and 49, are on hpcalc.org and make a pretty good PIM. Of course with this data you can just make a big CHOOSE You talking about the autosimplification feature? Get the TI-92+ emulator and try it yourself. I did the same when I have to choose between the Texas and the 49. Sorry if you read this post for the second time. I have to repost it because of an unidentified problem :-( Le 2 Nov 2001 02:41:09 -0800, gtsiros@yahoo.com (George Tsiros) a 216crit : gx. It is a great idea, but you are not the only one who have this project. There is 3 french projects like this one : - ShellOS was a multitasking OS for the HP48Gx. There is a demo available (I think you can find it on hpcalc.org). Unfortunately it seems that the authors can't work on this project anymore, and that thay have lost the sources :-( - SOS (Saturn Operating System) was a project started by myself. It is a multitasking OS. It was designed for the HP49G but could easily be adapted to the HP48. Actually there is only a little part of the kernel done (and sorry, the documentation is in french, but it could be translated), so there is no demo available. You can download the sources here : http://clement.pillias.free.fr/hp/SOS.zip or here : http://clement.pillias.free.fr/hp/SOS.tgz Actualy I don't work on this project since I want to finish Doom first. - WinSOS is a project similar to SOS, started by Yves Brisseaud (the one who did the MASD mode for emacs recently). The project also include a graphical user interface made by someone else (sorry I don't remember his name :-( ). This project is not more advanced than SOS, and can be found here : http://www.winsos.cjb.net Since WinSOS take some parts from SOS, the two projects will probably merge in a near future, at least to have a common kernel. Well, it could be funny to merge your project with this two ones ;-) Sorry for my poor english. Bye. Cl 216ment Pillias (HpFool). Yes, that is the right name. SOS for the HP calcs. ;-) Only joking (but with a bitter taste, regarding that HP seems to abandon tha calculators :-( ) Greetings, Nick. Has anyone else experienced difficulty in obtaining these books: Science and Engineering Mathematics on the HP49G Vol1 and Vol2? According to the web site (BookSurge), all books ship within 48 hours. I ordered these books over three weeks ago. I can't get much of a response to my inquiries. Can these books be ordered somewhere else. Pat Moran I ordered mine on the thirtieth and got a message on Friday, after an inquiry, from a fellow named Rick Jones rickjones@greatunpublished.com, who said it was to be shipped on Friday the 2nd. Does anyone know where the books are really shipped from? I think I remember when I bought one of Dr. Urroz's books for the 48, that it came from North Carolinas. Any comments? Harold A. Climer Physics/Astronomy Lab Instructor U. Tennessee At Chattanooga with all the commotion going on about creating the next best super powerful calculator I can't refrain to at least speak my mind. We have to acknowledge that the entire industry is shifting and for a reason. I'm not saying that it is a good or bad decision and I'm happy to see initiative and creative thinking to look for alternatives from users that do not want to settle with the corporate decision making process. What I do not understand is why everyone thinks that the power has to come from the unit at hand. I read many debates about which CPU to use, at how many Hz it should run and different compromises to conserve power. There is a lot computing power around us and we don't use it. Nevertheless, we want to have the most powerful number crunching machine close to us. For the most part I like to agree, I'm a performance freak myself. However, this paradigm is NOT practical. At least not now that communication technologies abound. I believe that the next best calculator (or any portable computing device for that matter) should take advantage of that and run as a dummy terminal. essence, everywhere I have an internet device I can access the power of a robust tool that is sitting on my home machine doing nothing most of the day on my idle P3 1Ghz w/ 256mb RAM. The question is, If I already have that, why do I need to worry about how much power I can squeeze from a 4 Mhz Saturn CPU, StrongARM or any other microcontroller? They can not compete. Therefore, we should we worrying about how we can harness that power and make it accessible. PDA’s with internet access are great for displaying information, they have nice big LCD’s (plots converted to gif’s, formulas, etc on a browser). The port of the wrapper could easily be done for Maple, MathCAD or any other of your favorite applications. I realize that you still need to have a powerful math application, an expensive PDA with web access, have your computer set-up as a web server always connected via cable-modem or other connections. But that is why the industry is shifting, in the near future this will not be an issue, just like cell phones are today (that’s another idea, how about accessing MAPLE with your phone). This is just a prototype and in the future could serve hundreds of users (license issues may have to be resolved). Business could offer the service and charge small fees for its use, via a monthly payment or a one time subscription, so user don’t have to worry about having the latest most powerful calculator gadget on the block using valuable real state on your pocket. Anyone with a small HTML capable device with a connection will enjoy the same capabilities, no matter if you paid $600 for your color LCD PDA or the simplest most featureless internet capable organizer. This is just for consideration, it has its limitations and problems but I believe it is a legitimate alternative that more people should start looking into. The corollary of all this is that application development should focus on robust OO languages available for PC platforms (like the C++ CAS being developed by B. Parisse for example) under GPL licenses and then create ways to access its power with Of course, this alternative would be out of the question for exams like the EIT, PE, GRE, SAT, etc, but this is more for everyday work/education on mathematics, engineering, physics, etc. You would still have to study for you exams !!!!!! J Do not discard this too soon, give it some though, you’ll realize it make a lot of sense. At least it does to me. On the other hand, who am I. J Just a graduate foreign engineering student at the University of Florida. Go GATORS! BTW. I’m a proud owner of an HP49. Sorry, I totally disagree. I am an engineer and allthough building sites are getting pretty sofisticated I doubt there'll be an Internet Connection on the 10th floor when the concrete hasen't even been poured. My meetings also rarely have computers or IP connections though the developers are usually flashing the latest PDA's and phones. Actually I have a little snigger when the money men hold up the meetings for 5 minutes to enter the next meeting time in their calander. Paper is still best for somethings. As for wireless technology a lot of remote sites don't even have Mobile When I'm out of the office 90% of the time all I want to do are simple back of envelope type calcs so something small with instant On is a must. I don't take my laptop to meetings or site since it's bulky, fragile and to slow to boot up. Anything that needs a laptop is probably to complex to be giving quick answers away from the office. I find that with the HP49 I am using spreadsheets a lot less. Spreadsheets have an inherent flaw that they hide how a result was derived leading to errors that aren't caught. The laptop is being used for detailed design runs, 2D/3D analysis, correspodence, comminication.......... Can't they? The XScale is built around the Pentium III core, and @ 1 GHz scores 1280 MIPS. Pretty decent of a 1.7 W processor. And they use alot of power - how does 4-5 hours sound like? A powerplug is as rare on most grounds where such a device is needed, as internet access is. And a flat-rate dedicated 400 Mbit/s wireless internet connection. That's not in the near future. You'd have an equal hard time maintaining all this, with internet connectivity, html and so forth. Why will such software not run on the portable device itself? But this stems from the whole idea of not having a calculator anymore - you'd need to some extent to make such a device usable for students. Not as a primary goal, but usable nonetheless. Diego, I like the idea in principle, but I think that the wireless technology and coverage that would enable the connections needed are too far away. Always-on connections are here, but there isn't much take-up of them due to cost and availability at the moment, but this could change. So I think your idea should be tried just to see how well it worked.. Personally I would not want to rely on a global infrastructure to ensure that I would be able to do some calculations. I agree that the power available in PCs is much greater than that in low power devices like calculators. But for most of us, this power is heavily diluted by the fact that the machines are running Windows and compiled or interpreted software. The HP calculators like the 49 and 48 allow low-level use to optimise performace, and get rid of all the overhead which comes with making everything user-friendly etc. Not that I'm against user-friendliness :-) happen. Mark I understant your point. I meant wireless internet connection. In fact, I do that all the time right know. I connect with my PDA to my home PC and common in the future. As a matter of fact, regarding your comment, there is nothing to disagree about. I did not make any assertions, just commented on some use of a current technology that will keep growing, my message was just about finding yet another use for it (the technology). I know that some might argue that the communications overhead outweight the potential for practical use. My answer is YES, it is true. This is not convenient for everyday use nor simple calculations. However, any PDA with decent software can handle simple calculations with ease so you won't need the remote connection. I'm thinking about complex, high precision calculations that not even the best calculator can handle but robust mathematical packages like Maple or Mathematica can. A good example is optimization topics. For calculators, there are some programs for LP problem using the simplex method which can't even handle degeneracy and other complications in discrete number theory. Lets not even go to mix integer programs, or stochastic programming, global optimization, non-linear opt, etc. I'm in Operation Research and calculators do not help me that much in problems with large number of varaibles and constraints. With this I can have modeling languages like AMPL and solvers like CPLEX available all the time. Just write and send the model in AMPL, let the wrapper do its work, and receive the answer from the solver in my web-enabled wireless device. I know, these are now problems that are likely to come up in the middle of the street or shopping and you have to have an answer. But, it is good to know you can count on it if you do need it.Otherwise, why bother, any good HP or TI is overkill for daily use. Today the communications overhead IS a constraint, but, can you say that 1-2 years down the road. Maybe, maybe not. Just a thought. Diego. minutes back be Spreadsheets We all have different requirements. With all this talk of a supercalc I wanted to make sure that the thing doesn't bloat into something that will no longer be convenient for what is the core functions of a Calculater. Quick, go anyware, small, allways there when you need it. Runs forever so you never worry about batteries. If the next great calc doesn't fullfill my needs I can see me having to put the 49 in cotton wool cause it's going to have to last a long time. My HP41 did me 12 years and is still working on the last batteries I put in it 18 months ago. do common finding the problem I the or 1-2 sites Connection for to I found your reply interesting , I've often wondered if Surveyors were the only people that need a small light weight and long lasting battery capability. I could carry a laptop into the woods with me and possibly put up with the weight factor but when your using it all day long (sometimes hooked to the gun ) the battery is the real issue. The 48 slips nicely into a large BDU type pocket or a small section of your backpack. No, the XScale is build around an ARM core (ARM v.5TE instruction set). A Pentium III core would always consume MORE than 1.7W @ 1GHz... J 232rn problem Intel 80200 device doesn't have hardware to run? Stop talking about puny little calculators - they are not in this league. 1-2 Don't know. It'll cost you., that's for sure. Network licenses of software is usually much more expensive than single PC licenses. You're usually allowed to use a single PC license on all your own personal computers, so if you save USD 10,000 on the software, you'd easily throw an extra USD 200 at a smart math device, wouldn't you? So my choice are: 1) one time purchase of a 'regular' calculator for ~$200 2) one time purchase of 'your' calculator for $100 and $100/month for airtime to use it? So over a year plan 1 costs $200 while plan 2 costs $1300. Yeah! That sounds like a great deal! And I'll have no problems using it anywhere right? Steel building? Mall? Basement? Parking garage? Subway? Car? Don't take this wrong but it sounds like your idea is a 'cool' answer to a question nobody has asked. (i.e. misuse of technology just for technology's sake) -- john R. Latala jrlatala@golden.net And here I thought I was the only one with this pet peeve. Devices with battery lifetimes measured in hours just seem like such dumb ideas. It's one thing if it's for something like a forklift truck that you charge up overnight when you're done for the day but for something you can throw into a briefcase or backpack and take with you it's seems kind of ludicrous. I remember a friend of mine ranting and raving about how much smaller his new portable CD player was. When I asked to see it he showed me the carryall bag he kept it in ... along with 20 CDs, three battery packs and the charger. -- john R. Latala jrlatala@golden.net Yes. I know I've read it somewhere a long time ago, but it showed up to be in another context. See this paper: http://www.intel.com/design/iio/prodbref/80310.htm Thats what I feel like when I take the laptop away with me to a job. Have to take a full carry bag with all the extra's just to keep it going. PC devices tie you to power points, IP connections, printers, screens, mouses etc... I just can't do away with a Calc that will go and work anywhere without any peripherals. Small enough that it's no effort to take just in case something unexpected crops up. Powerfull enough to do some usefull comps. For all the power of PC's and PDA's there is a good reason Calulator's still have a keypad, it's quicker. do common X http://ca-on.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/humor/radio.txt This is very simple. With Emacs version 1.07 and ROM version 1.19-6 pressing the down arrow key to edit an object (say, a program) and then PREV to move to the end of the menu that brings up, and then hitting the softkey for Tools -- where I would *expect* from a previous Emacs version to get a menu with an 'Emacs' entry whereby I could get the Emacs *menu* -- causes a TTRM. Fun! This is very regular; I've done it several times. I've also gotten a TTRM by using a RPLED key when in an editor -- which used to bring up the Emacs menu. Does anyone know what could cause this? Why the Tools menu doesn't show an 'Emacs' entry as it did before? *Anyway*, I'm now going to try and replace my Emacs library, and then get another TTRM. If my memory is correct, a library makes the ROM 1.19-6 to crash, you have to delete it. This library was used to reorganize the apps menu. Very poorly written library which process all the extension messages in the same way. You have to delete this library. I think this library is mentionned in the Emacs documentation, or look for a message from Carsten, he listed it lot of libraries when I got this bad one (L1791), and so didn't check the comments. Carsten did try to warn me! After purging it, the crashing and the TTRM'ing disappeared. At least now I have very good backup and mode- saving programs written =) ==== Yess..just today hp 49 is arrived. Ok..i open the box, insert the batteries and SURPRISE...nothing.. HP 49 don't start... i try to push all buttons...nothing.. i try to press the reset rear..nothing.. i look the model rear the hp and SURPRISE again...hp49 turn it on... On display i read if i want to recover the memory..ok yes... i see some other functions and i turn it off.. Now i'm at the begin..it don't want to start... Some opinion ? thanks Chris ==== I tried to use the ASSUME command in order to restrict solutions of trigonometric equations. As an simple example: ASSUME(W>=0) ASSUME(W<2 Pi) SOLVE(SIN(W)=1,W) which should give me Pi/2. But the restrictions seem not to work: you get the periodic solutions: Pi/2 +/- 2*PI*n1. I checked the REALASSUME list and it looks ok: {X Y t S1 S2 W<2*Pi AND W>=0} (40G CAS should be comparable to 1.19-1 of 49G) Any suggestions? Axel ==== If the 40G is like the 49G, you can not use '>' or '<' successfully. Use only '>=' and '<=' and it should work perfectly. David > > I tried to use the ASSUME command in order to restrict solutions of > trigonometric equations. As an simple example: > > ASSUME(W>=0) > ASSUME(W<2 Pi) > SOLVE(SIN(W)=1,W) > > which should give me Pi/2. But the restrictions seem not to work: you > get the periodic solutions: Pi/2 +/- 2*PI*n1. > > I checked the REALASSUME list and it looks ok: > {X Y t S1 S2 W<2*Pi AND W>=0} > > (40G CAS should be comparable to 1.19-1 of 49G) > > Any suggestions? > Axel > ==== > If the 40G is like the 49G, you can not use '>' or '<' successfully. Why not? Just curious, Bhuvanesh. ==== I don't know. But from reading previous posts it seems that you could use '>' and '<' on ROMs before 1.19-4, but ASSUME wouldn't work with the SOLVE command. After 1.19-4 it worked with SOLVE and several other commands, but you now had to use '>=' and '<='. I believe Bernard Parisse was responsible for incorporating this command into the ROM, but as far as I know he never explained this in the newsgroup. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. Dave > > If the 40G is like the 49G, you can not use '>' or '<' successfully. > > Why not? > > Just curious, > Bhuvanesh. > ==== > > Happy scrolling, > > Nick. > > Hey, thatĒs cool. You bet it is! > Why isnĒt that standard? You mean having a PICT with more that 131x64 pixels? Well, perhaps because it eats up more memory? I don't know. Anyway, some default value for the size of the PICT has to be defined, and having a screen with 131x64 pixels somehow makes the same default size for PICT seem reasonable. > IĒm gonna put that PDIM-thing, right away into my startup-variable so that I > donĒt have to erase and redraw the graph-view each time I found out that I > should move the view for example down, left, up, etc. etc. Note that you can use also other sizes for the PICT. You could as well have a 300x200 PICT. Or 521x322. There is a limitation for the width but I don't remember exactly what it was. Perhaps some other guy will tell us once more? Greetings, Nick. P.S. Just because you mentioned the re-draws in case the portion of the plot isn't what you want. You can also do the following for functions: When the plot is ready you can press the menu key [ZOOM] and use any of the many ZOOM functions. For example, in the plotting environment press [NXT], move the cursor to some position and press the menu key [CNTR] to have a new plot centered at the current cursor position. This redraws the plot but at least you don't have to leave the plotting environment, setup new view range and then redraw. ==== > any disassembler run in Windows for user RPL? > > thx > You didn't say for which calculator. A HP48SX/GX binary to ASCII decoder is available at http://privat.swol.de/ChristophGiesselink/enco005b.zip. Christoph Distribution: world ==== Program and Project Management. There is A Difference! There is a difference but some professionals in the IT industry seem to believe program management is just managing multiple projects. Program and Project Managers may or may not be certified. Program Management: Program management is the management of multiple related projects, a system or systems, not just multiple projects. A Program Manager has project managers, technical leads, and/or project leads reporting to him/her. A Program Manager (PM) provides technical and business leadership as required. Program Managers are involved up front in system/product development, with sales, customer relations, contract development and negotiations, etc. The Program manager is required to be familiar with different technologies, methodologies and processes for different practices (e.g.,software/application, networks/infrastructure) and experience with the System/Software Development Life Cycle. Where some project managers may not control their budgets (but should) program managers have financial and budget responsibility. The PM has communication, team building, business management, and subcontract/vendor management skills. A program manager must be familiar with various standards related to technology in various industries. Project Management: Project Management is normally about managing a set or related project tasks/activities for a single product. A Project Manager (PM) may be certified and have the required background or experience. The PM is capable of managing a variety of technology projects but usually in his/her particular expertise or discipline (e.g., application development). PM's are directly responsible for the product(s) and deliverables resulting from successfully completed projects. A PM understands the technologies, methodologies, tools, and basic best practice processes applied to a particular project, and should posses planning and communication skills. Author: E. Williams (PMP) Publisher of the FREE monthly newsletter the IT Professional Facilitator www.rayannpublishers.com/newsarchives here: newsarchives@sendfree.com browse the company site at www.rayannpublishers.com --------------------------------------- Download at http://www.jocsoft.com/jnf/ >> ==== I can highly recommend both books by Gilbert Urroz. I also bought them at www.greatunpublished.com but i decided on the hard copy. These books are in my opinion far beyond any otherr i have read on the HP49 topic. I was on the verge of selling my brand new calculator due to the poor material provided by both the vendor and HP. But these books really did it for me, they are are a good and easy way to get really accuanted with the HP49. So I do not Sincerely Lars L ==== > I have both of Urroz's books, in electronic format only, and have printed > them myself. Over the two volumes there is something like 700+ pages. do you have Kazaa?? ==== >> I have both of Urroz's books, in electronic format only, and have printed >> them myself. Over the two volumes there is something like 700+ pages. do you have Kazaa?? That would be the file swapping software wouldn't it? I hope that you're not suggesting that mr helps you cheat Mr Urroz out If you're a regular user of Kazaa then I suggest that you read http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/28286.html and take careful note of just how easily the users were tracked and caught. > >>I have both of Urroz's books, in electronic format only, and have printed >>them myself. Over the two volumes there is something like 700+ pages. > > > do you have Kazaa?? Goddamnit! You should be supporting Urroz for doing a good job! I'm a poor student, but I've just bought the book online, because I've now heard too many good things about his books and I want to support the man for doing a good job. If you're interested in the book, then you should go buy it. That's my opinion. ps: I can give you a feedback, when I'm finished with volume 1, if you want it. Martin J. ==== You were totally right: I used the integral from 0 to X, instead of INTVX. //I knew that the +1 is only a constant which doesn't really matter, but I was surprised, because sin(x)*x didn't come with a similar result... All my fault! sorry > I'm guessing here so don't shoot me down in flames if I'm wrong, but is > is possible that what you're doing is finding the definite integral from > zero to x of x*cos(x)? If so then the -1 is coming from evaluating > [integral at x] minus [integral at zero], since x*sin(x)+cos(x) > evaluates to 1 at x=0. > If so then you should be using a different method. I'm not quite sure, if this is know already, but I just wanted to let > you know that 1.19-6 adds a wrong -1 when integrating the following > antiderivative: x * cos(x) The correct answer is: x * sin(x) + cos(x) instead of x * sin(x) + > cos(x) - 1 == > Hell is full of people with good intentions. I know this may be a little > harsh but when you consider that all we have as individuals is our honor > and trust, those virtues can't be compromised. whatever we do in a big catalogue of sins. Where is forgiveness? Anyway, what happened happened. Let's move on. Greetings, Nick. ==== > Anyway, what happened happened. Let's move on. Yes, I'ld also say so, and btw: It was, a good news no matter what anybody says. So many people in here have been wishing that HP continues to make good calcs in the future, also, and then suddenly someone does a stupid thing by apparantly letting us into a socalled secret, but why should we be mad at him? HP can be mad at him. Not us :-) He's our friend, as I see the case and he should be treated like a friend :-) Let some guys at HP be mad at him, but it's not our problem :-) Perhaps he sees us more as his friends than HP, think it that way :-) > Greetings, > Nick. Same to you, Martin J. ==== > HP has in the past contacted people to test their product. I did so when I > people are like you and usually this practice can work. You just need one > asshole to blew up the whole thing and stop companies in involving people > for future development project. > > You idiot > PS: you idiot. you Bush! (ok this may be a bit too hard :) Well, I would say that the idiocy very clearly lies on the side of the kind of nitwit that sends letters with presumably confidential information to complete strangers. Anybody who is naive enough to do that deserves whatever follows. -- Helen. ==== Martin, Martin. Nice try! Every felon needs an advocat, but anybody revealing classified information will soon be cleaned off. A substitute AI program will continue to send news to this group according to the original writers pattern so that we would not be suspicious. Oh - no! I just revealed a clazzzz.... Anyway, what happened happened. Let's move on. > Yes, I'ld also say so, and btw: It was, a good news no matter what > anybody says. So many people in here have been wishing that HP continues to make > good calcs in the future, also, and then suddenly someone does a > stupid thing by apparantly letting us into a socalled secret, but > why should we be mad at him? HP can be mad at him. Not us :-) He's our friend, as I see the case and he should be treated like a > friend :-) Let some guys at HP be mad at him, but it's not our problem > :-) Perhaps he sees us more as his friends than HP, think it that way :-) ==== Looks good. However, at least my Jornada 690 has a nice RPN calculator simulation built-in, which also has the faceplate look of a Vojager series model. It's called OmniSolve, and it's included with the machine. Raymond BTW: I hate pseudonyms in newsgroups and forums, and it's just bad style;-) SaveRPN schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I found this fantastic 15C simulator for PocketPC: > http://www.lygea.com/pocket15cdetail.htm > Works just like a real calc, only better - bigger matrices, more program > steps, view whole stack and all registers at once, cut and paste, etc. > Graphic of calc is beautiful. The author has done a brilliant job. It's not > free like Emu48, but it doesn't cost much and is perfect if you just want > something simple, yet powerful, like the good ole 15C. I think we should > support quality work like this that keeps RPN and the old HP way alive. > ==== > > Not exactly. The nibble before the command (that '4') tells the system > that the command has a help string, always placed after the parser data. > Remember that this is for libs > 1793 (1792 & 1793 are built-in libs). Where do I find info on the bits in this nibble? > AFAIK, quotes cannot be included inside parenthesis. But that's not a problem. > On this calc, the distinction between command and function is not important: > for example you can enter either SYSEVAL 171591 or SYSEVAL(171591). I called > the former the command notation, i.e. STRING Text If STRING( Text ) could be used then: STRING( ABC )+2*5+STRING( DEF ) would be ok - I dont think this is ok: STRING ABC + 2*5 + STRING DEF or ist it? This would also make it possible to make something like: ->Hex(Hex->( A000 )+(Hex->( 100 )) which would return the string A100 . Hex-> makes hex string to number, ->Hex the other way. Better names would of course be needed! > I played with the idea of creating a new set of vars: S1 .. S0, (well, I should > use another letter, S1 to S5 are the symbolic vars) but it was soon abandoned > because there are already string variables: they're called notes! I would prefer string variables. Then the program is independent of the note(s). Is is difficult to make T1..T5 or String1..String5? This note function you made - can it create new notes or must the note exist already? > I look forward to seeing your first aplet, Ronny! I haven't had my HP38G for two months yet. Much to read and understand. Havent tried the compiler or my homemade comm cable either. Has been testing with SYSEVAL on the emulator. Also made a simple decompiler today to find Ans. I made this simple programs to create a string from a list: PROGRAM NULLSTR @ leaves empty string in ANS SYSEVAL 21951: SYSEVAL 535923 PROGRAM CHR2STR @ convets number in ANS to string in ANS SYSEVAL 361260: SYSEVAL 531633: SYSEVAL 531433: SYSEVAL 543418: SYSEVAL 535923 PROGRAM LIST2STR @ converts list in ANS to string in ANS CONCAT({0,Ans,I},L0) |>L0: RUN NULLSTR: Ans |>L0(1): FOR I=1 TO SIZE(L0(2)) STEP 1; L0(2):Ans(I): RUN CHR2STR: L0(1)+Ans |>L0(1): END: L0(3) |>I:L0(1): SUB L0;L0;4;Size(L0) In this program I use SYSEVAL 361260 to fetch Ans. Is this wrong - I found it while decompiling StoAns@Drp. If someone intents to test this on a calculator make a backup first!!! This always applies when playing with SYSEVAL:s. The emulator is safer. I hesitated a while before downloading it from: http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/utilities.htm on http://www.hphomeview.com/ I thought it would be difficult to install and setup but it was only to unzip and run the exe. No Install or setup required! Good doc also :) Many thanks to Colin and the others responsible! I recommend this to everyone who has one or have been thinking about buying a HP38/39/40G - it emulates all of these. When I start making libraries is there som way to get a library into the emulator directly? Ronny ==== > What about sistems of inequalties? can that be done? No, inequalities have to be univariate, hence 'X*2+X-4/7*X>X/2' 'X' SOLVE will work, while 'X*Y Matthew Senn schrieb im Newsbeitrag > ok, apparently the first post didn't work right with the attachments, let > me > try again: when i enter: > ?(1,2,(1-Cos(x))/(x-Sin(x)),x) it simply spits back the same integral, except that it converts the x > variable to xt and rearranges the orders a little bit, like this: ?(1,2,(Cos(xt)-1)/(Sin(xt)-xt),xt) any help anyone could provide on this would be great. again i'm using the > HP 49 with ROM version 1.18. My HP49G (with ROM 1.19-6) gives the correct answer > LN((SIN(2)-2)/(SIN(1)-1)). > I recommend you update your calc to the most recent ROM version. Roman thank you! > > I've recently upgraded from an HP 48G to an HP 49 with ROM version > 1.18 > > and i'm having some trouble. > > When I try to integrate, whether definite or indefinite, I sometimes get > > something strange returned. For example: > > yeilds the answer: > > Does anybody have any ideas what is going on here? > > ==== Yes, I have the problem because I don't like guys who think that the whole world must know when they have bought a piece of second hand garbage. > What a success ... I cannot sleep because I am so jealous ... It seems you have a problem... > ==== > Yes, I have the problem because I don't like guys who think that the whole > world must know when they have bought a piece of second hand garbage. I am too little for answering your big thoughts, so I will use words of Master Jean Ives Avenard: I would say that you're a moron. I would say it twice actually . ==== > Yes, I have the problem because I don't like guys who think that the whole > world must know when they have bought a piece of second hand garbage. No, you have the problem because you lack the empathy to enjoy another's good fortune, as well as lacking the intelligence and good taste needed to appreciate a fine piece of engineering like the HP-42S. ==== Quote >Unfortunately, HP no longer carries the 49g calculator. You can still >find the calculator on the web by searching for '49g' at the >following >sites. >http://shopping.yahoo.com >http://www.froogle.com >Unquote Looks like HP49G is obselete The Fry's in Palo Alto just got a dozen or so HP 49Gs in stock. They want only $10 over list for them. ==== X > Hopefully it's replaced by something like you are predicting with > the 50GX+ or whatever. Yeah! AND Carly Fiorina resigns saying that she has betrayed The HP way All hope is gone and there are no more RPN calculators. The Dark Lord Sauron has cast a spell on your calculators and soon everybody is calculating in Algebraic Mode PS: There is always a rainbow after a heavy storm and what do you find at the end of the rainbow? ==== The 6th and last part of the Sequences, Series and Limits Marathon is ready. I uploaded the marathon to www.hpcalc.org yesterday where it will be available when the server will be updated. This part contains progs for finding if functions are continuous at a certain point or interval, find discontinuities (removable or not removable), ennhancements for the built-in lim function for finding limits of piece wise defined functions at junctions, how to find limits of functions of more than one variables, about epsilon, precision and accuracy on the HP49G, visualizations of epsilon-delta(epsilon) relations for functions, enhanced contour plots that draw curves and not only line segments, and much more. There is also an update of the trig. marathon (again) which corrects some errata. (Also available at hpcalc or directly from me.) Greetings, Nick. P.S.: Next Marathon is about Calculus. Hurrah!! ==== >P.S.: Next Marathon is about Calculus. Hurrah!! Garth ==== X > PS: It's nice to be back and find out that you have all learned > good manners, respect for each other, and a naturally polite tongue > all this while I was away...;-) ;-) ;-) Good manners and polite tongue have to be replaced by protest > sometimes. Not often, but sometimes. protest ??? You HULKed on WR !!! Be aware of gamma radiation! It's worse than the Dark Side of the Force! ;-) ==== That help alot, thank you. > Is it possible to get MTRW to use a minifont? Yes: -72 SF. Unfortunately, that also changes the stack display to > mini-font. << -72 SF -43.2 KEYEVAL -72 CF >> 43.2 ASN > changes the MTRW key (in USER mode) to automatically flip into the mini-font > for the MatrwxWriter and then flip back to your font of choice when it > exits. Hope this helps! -Joe- ==== I was wondering if anyone uses niMH batteries in their calculators. I own a digital camera so I already have the charger and I'm contemplating purchasing a set of 4 niMH AAA batteries to use in my 48GX so I basically will never have to replace them again... Has anyone already tried this? -Adrian ==== > > I want to ask you a question. It is possible to change the picture > showed in every warmstart and how can I make it? > > I think not because it is hard-coded in the system booter. You can, > however, put some program into the STARTUP file so that a warmstart ends > up with your picture, simliar to that at the start of the huge Demo > library 1234 which comes with every new HP49. Send me your favourite > picture (maybe in greyscale) and I'll make a program with a your > picture, asking you by the way for your language choice and then fading > slowly away by itself to the default screen. > > - Wolfgang No doubt about the appropriate picture: Shakira. ==== >> Send me your favourite >>picture (maybe in greyscale) and I'll make a program with a your >>picture, asking you by the way for your language choice and then fading >>slowly away by itself to the default screen. >>- Wolfgang > > > No doubt about the appropriate picture: Shakira. > Can you make one with Anna Kournikova for me? :-) I hope I spelled that name right... BTW: I wouldn't have asked, but now you're offering it yourself :-) (You don't have to do it if you don't want. I live i Denmark.) Martin J. ==== Those winboot logo pictures could be send to www.hpcalc.org in th graphics section. Maybe even tools to build them automatically? > Send me your favourite >>picture (maybe in greyscale) and I'll make a program with a your >>picture, asking you by the way for your language choice and then fading >>slowly away by itself to the default screen. >>- Wolfgang > No doubt about the appropriate picture: Shakira. > Can you make one with Anna Kournikova for me? :-) > I hope I spelled that name right... BTW: I wouldn't have asked, but now you're offering it yourself :-) > (You don't have to do it if you don't want. I live i Denmark.) Martin J. > ==== > I don't understand the question. What is xls? Maybe somebody > else could reply :-) > Microsoft Excel worksheet file format > Maybe he could download the values as a space/comma delimited file > (as a string/text file) to his HP 49G. 1. perhaps you should answer to the poor guy in whatsever language. For me all kinds of Microsoft stuff are b .9amische D .9arfer :-) 2. You asked for a keymap switcher. It was realized a while ago in the latest version of Keyman, maybe already on hpcalc.org. should disassemble his own UsrRPL programs in a SysRPL editor and rewrite it in SysRPL. IMHO, this is too difficult for beginners. This may be difficult even for a SysRPL-programmer! As an example I take the eigenvalue command xEGVL which after argument checking and dispatching calls flashpointer MATEGVL. It's very hard to follow the runstream of this program which among other things computes first the characteristic polynomial of the matrix, then looks whether it is decomposable in exact mode which also depends on whether in real or complex mode, etc etc. Thus, the SysRPL programmer would give up and will be happy with FPTR^MATEGL even if switched to complex mode already earlier :-) Programming the CAS in SysRPL and ML must have been very hard and its author(s) deserve full respect. Only very simple UsrRPL commands are easily understood and may be taken for extracting of what is needed for a SysRPL program. + is such a command, not too simple and not too difficult. One earns a lot from this. The UsrRPL + decompiles as follows where I replaced all builtin bints by temporary bints. These start with the symbol #. That is very useful for watching how the dispatching really runs: :: CK2&Dispatch (check among other things for 2 arguments) # 11 (aha, if there are two reals on the stack simply do %+) %+ (this adds *only* reals, crashes with other arguments!) # FFFF (FF is the dispatch type of zints, only on the HP49) FPTR 6118 (this is FPTR^QADD which adds 2 zints or 2 polys etc) # 12 PTR 10103 (add a real and a complex number) % 21 PTR 100DB (add a complex and a real number) . . (and so on over twenty lines, for adding lists, graphics etc). . # 3 (the very last dispaching of the + command) PTR 39CB3 (add a n y user object and a string) ; @ Now the student should hack these pointers in sequence. E.g., the last pointer decompiles as :: SWAP DECOMP$ SWAP&$ ; Interesting, because we now understand how the calc adds an object and a string: First the object is swapped in and turned into a string. And since SWAP&$ is just :: SWAP &$ ; it is swapped back. Then the two strings are finally added. Both SWAP and &$ are written in ML and extremely fast upon which the SysRPL programmer can safely rely. Is learning SysRPL as easy as learning UsrRPL? Unfortunatly not. Apart from that there are about 6000 SysRPL commands but only 600 UsrRPL commands there are still dozens of undocumented pitfalls. Avoiding these needs a lot of experience. For instance, the command CK2&Dispatach above distinguishes zints and reals, but the similar command CK&DISPATCH1 does not, i.e., it tacidly converts a zint into a real before beginning the dispatching. Clearly, JYA knows all his tricks, but we poor SysRPL programmers are forced to learn this all w i t h o u t any reasonable document, just by trial and error or by Remember, the RPL manual doesn't cover the 49, and what I just told is not yet in Programming in SysRPL (will be in the next edition since I tell such things to Eduardo and Carsten). Their book will be the bible the HP49 and I hope they continue improving their work. - Wolfgang ==== > For instance, the command > CK2&Dispatach above distinguishes zints and reals, but the similar > command CK&DISPATCH1 does not, i.e., it tacidly converts a zint > into a real before beginning the dispatching. That must be corrected because it sounds as if CK&DISPATCH1 would always convert a zint into a real if the dispatchee BINT1 for reals occurs. The truth is that if you want a zint input to *stay* a zint and not be converted into a real, the dispatchee bint # FF for zints must *procede* a possible dispatchee BINT1 for reals in the dispatching sequence. You see how easy it is to be caught by the additional pitfall of a not quite clear fromulation. - Wolfgang ==== > You did not definitely say YES, I want a keymap switcher . So > let's see whether some other people will be interested in that. > X > YES, I want a keymap switcher NG let your PC in the meantime collect the postings of some selected people :-) It's realized long time ago in last version of Keyman from my site and, of course, documented in Keyman.txt. Maybe it's already on hpcalc.org. ==== Is it possible to create a table showing the x and y values for an equation on the 48? //mark ==== Create your own UserRPL program, or have a look at various programs at www.hpcalc.org (Mathtools by Jack Levy for instance) Caspar Mark & Connie schreef in bericht > Is it possible to create a table showing the x and y values for an > equation on the 48? ==== >Is it possible to create a table showing the x and y values for an >equation on the 48? > Go to www.hpcalc.org. Search on Aaron Wallace. I believe his Power plot has a table function. He also has a separate version of just the table IIRC. Bill alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) ==== > Speaking of Hp people ... > You hate this, however you are still reading around. This Hp people > must be really good... Yes the hp people are very good. But I am very good with my 89. I do own a 49g (got it when hp offered $75 dollar rebate) but I am much more comfortable with my ti89. Besides I got my 89 because it had a 68k processor because I had studied assembly in general and thought that the 68k processor was rather nice. For very complex math I use the student version of MathCAD. Yes it was purchased. -Samuel ==== I agree, the TI89 is much better than it is given credit for in this newsgroup which of course is understandable. Yes, I do own a 49G and love it too but, at least for me, the software development tools for the 89 are so outstanding you really can't beat it and the tools relate to flexibility I can make work. I guess the 49G people who have programmed a lot just might say the same for the 49...built in this and that, etc. However, if you are a C/C++ guy like me, its hands down for the 89 and I never owned any calc other than an HP. In fact, because of the compiler(s) available is the main reason I even considered the TI but still decided and bought the HP. Then, one day, I happen to find an 89 for $84 brand new at Office Depot and I asked the salesman several times is this the correct price? and he stated yes that is the price so I bought it. Later on his supervisor told him it was in the wrong bin and he just sold it for less than half price... as I was at the the TI-89 has, for the 49G I would never have even considered it. If anyone knows of a really good C/C++ development environment for the 49G PLEASE let me know! Through all my searching I have not found nothing close to what TI offers even though, albeit a long time ago, HP stated it was going to have this type of dev. software. No flames...I like 'em both. Just a IMHO, JF > Speaking of Hp people ... > You hate this, however you are still reading around. This Hp people > must be really good... Yes the hp people are very good. But I am very good with my 89. I do own a 49g (got it when hp offered $75 dollar rebate) but I am > much more comfortable with my ti89. Besides I got my 89 because it > had a 68k processor because I had studied assembly in general and > thought that the 68k processor was rather nice. For very complex math I use the student version of MathCAD. Yes it > was purchased. > -Samuel ==== I bought a HP-32S off of ebay and the manual that came with it was maybe I should have asked, but I didnt even this about it. I would buy the HP Museum cd of manuals but I already spent a lot on this calc and Im a engineering student without a lot of money. I would really like to have a manual. Could anyone send me a pdf file of the manual if ==== > > Are you SURE that there's going to be no new hardware produced? HP just > released the 9G and 9S and, though these are of probably not too much > interest to the folks in this group, I think it does show that HP is not > quite done with calculators just yet. that HP announced last November that they were back in the calculator business. Was this announcement made before or after they announced that they were out of the calculator business? Which is the latest news? - M ==== I sell hp calculators in my city, I had a many calculators with this problem, but in the last month I learn the problem and open one calc to try repare this, the only problem is the capacitor, only you will change this 1000uF 6,3V (10V are fine too), I did this in 6 calculators all are well, and no problems remain. P.D. How to detect the problem without open the calc ? turn on it and hold down the ON key and you will see that the screen flick. JoGa > > > > > > Having taken a look at the two new HP49G calculators I tried > > (both dead-on-arrival and now returned), there are some pretty > > noticable differences between the way HP makes its calculators now > > and the way it used to... > > Actually some of this impression is false, > as may surface below. > > I have to admit that most of my impressions were based the HP35 (which I > had) and HP45 (which friends had). There was a problem with the early > 35's keyboards, which was contact bounce. We assumed that it was just > because they were new and they were just teething problems. My 35 still > works though, and its pi key still bounces occasionally. > > I've not kept up-to-date with the majority of models that have come out > since then, or their problems. > > > The overall impression I got was cheap, cheap, cheap. > > About as cheap as TI? Then they should be about the same, > although some say that HP is still better. > > I wasn't comparing with any other brand, but that doesn't mean there > weren't problems with others. > > But are there not changing expectations in today's > consumer society that to some degree prompt all this? > > Some years ago, when Western Electric manufactured most of the > telephones in the USA, I heard them criticized for making them > *too*well* -- they were practically indestructable, > but people now expect everything either to soon become obsolete > or to be anyway to some extent throw away and buy another, and > they seem to shop more on price, when it comes to that trade-off; > it's what drives the consumption-oriented economy, in which > cheap stuff prevails, and thoughts of longer time scales > and the global world quality of life ahead are less important. > > [r-> [OFF] > > OK (not that I agree with the throw-away philosohpy) -- but it still > would be nice if the 49Gs worked the day you bought them. > > > Geoff ==== > I doubt that the S&E 600-ST actually calculates with > infinite precision either. The accuracy inherent to a machine and the accuracy of the perceived output can be different. An example of this is most non-HP calculators which use guard digits , extra digits that are not displayed but are rounded for a more accurate-appearing output. An extreme example is analog computers, including slide rules. Since slide rules are *analog* computers, they do indeed have infinite precision, but are difficult to read, as opposed to digital computers, which are easy to read but of limited precision. Example: The actual physical midpoint on the C or D scale on a slide rule is *exactly* the square root of 10, not just a handful of digits of it. The larger the slide rule and/or the finer its markings, the more precisely you can *read* the infinite-precision result. Other examples of real exact irrationals include an output of *exactly* pi volts from an electronic analog computer, or the diagonal of a unit square (*exactly* the square root of 2). Such exactitude is theoretically limited by quantuum physics, as indicated in the original posting of this thread. -Joe- ==== > Example: The actual physical midpoint on the C or D scale on a slide rule is > *exactly* the square root of 10, not just a handful of digits of it. The > larger the slide rule and/or the finer its markings, the more precisely you > can *read* the infinite-precision result. Those of us with aging eyes *really* appreciate whoever came up with the idea for those little clip-on magnifiers that fit over the cursor. :-) It makes reading a slipstick *much* easier. I have one on one of my K+E 4053's and another for my 4080 and 4081's. -- Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== > Since slide rules are *analog* computers, they do indeed have infinite > precision, but are difficult to read, as opposed to digital computers, which > are easy to read but of limited precision. Example: The actual physical midpoint on the C or D scale on a slide rule is > *exactly* the square root of 10, not just a handful of digits of it. The > larger the slide rule and/or the finer its markings, the more precisely you > can *read* the infinite-precision result. > Such exactitude is theoretically limited by quantuum physics, as indicated > in the original posting of this thread. ummmm, I have found this a fun series of ideas BUT now my two bits on analog precision vs accuracy. Can we be a little statistical here? I would think that precision of a measurement would be related to its standard deviation (you get to choose a probablistic statement and that gives a multiplier). The accuracy on the other hand would be the mean of the dsitribution versus reality. SO as far as the slide rule goes, its accuracy (related to mean) would in turn depend upon the accuracy with which the engravement was performed. Since this, in turn, has both accuracy AND precision (no two manufactured slide rules could be perfectly identical), any individual slide rule would not be perfectly accurate because the engravement would not be perfectly placed. Several rules would give different answers if we were skilled enough to read them that well. Therefore a process represented by a large pile of slide rules would have both precision and acuracy issues! Now precision also enters into this game because as we maginify the line to read it's position, the line is not perfectly straight, nor is it perfectly perpendicular. Therefore multiple readings will lead to different values and, hence, I claim it is a precision issue. Thus even the precision starts to be affected by real resolution therefore that the precision has to be a function of some sort of roughness measure of the line. So here then is a challenge. Can we craft a set of equations relating the maximum achievable precision of slide rule in terms of: 1. Perpedicularity (say in minutes of arc). Precision issue because it gives rise to an uncertainty in where to read. 2. Surface roughness of the line edges (in mm/cm or something like that) 3. Resolving power of the ocular systems needed to read out the line (maybe we can ignore this and just magnify). Maybe once we have developed the equations, someone could post a new library (would have to run in port 2) to solve these problems. :>) I found the thoughts in this thread very interesting! -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com ==== I have a hp-49 and know how to do all of the basic stuff. My dad has always had a 32s that he uses, and I tried it today. I noticed that it works differently. For example, 2 enter 2 enter 2 enter 2 enter. Now on the hp-49 I add them all and get six as the only thing remaining on the stack. On the 32s, I can continue hitting plus and it will add 2 forever. Would somone explain how the 32s functions in relation to the 49? Does the 32s just have 4 levels and the fourth level always duplicates? ==== >> Would somone explain how the 32s functions in relation to the 49? > Does the 32s just have 4 levels and the fourth level always > duplicates? > Try here http://www.hpmuseum.org/rpn.htm and here http://www.hpmuseum.org/rpnvers.htm ==== Ok that makes sense, but then on the other hand the HP49G can only calculate up to 9E499, as far as I know. Isn't 9^9^9^9^9^9 much bigger than that? How then is it possible for the calculator to display this number? Michael > > b) 9^(9^9) > =9^387420489 which is a v e r y large number and probably can't > be handled by the 49G. > > It can, if you've got 176 Meg of merged RAM, and a modified calculator that > can address that much memory space. :-) > > Since > x^y = 10^(LOG(x)*y), and > 123.456 = 123 + 0.456, and > 10^(x+y) = (10^x) * (10^y), > we can therefore calculate: > > 9^387420489 > = 10^(LOG(9)*387420489) > = 10^(369693099.631570358743543...) > = 10^(369693099 + 0.631570358743543...) > = 10^ (0.631570358743543... + 369693099) > = 10^(0.631570358743543...) * 10^369693099 > = 4.281247731757... * 10^369693099 > which is therefore an integer 369693100 digits long, starting with 428.... ==== > Ok that makes sense, but then on the other hand the HP49G can only > calculate up to 9E499, as far as I know. Isn't 9^9^9^9^9^9 much bigger > than that? How then is it possible for the calculator to display this > number? It is a question of type the maximum for a real number is 9e499 whereas for a zint it is only limite by the amount of memory. -- ir. P.F.Geelhoed Delft University of Technology Laboratory for Aero & Hydrodynamics Leeghwaterstraat 21, 2628 CA Delft, The Netherlands +31-15-2786656 / +31-15-2782947 (fax) ==== Nice, but still in DOS (sadly) and still for PC (not very portable). And who needs HP-IL today, anyway? > Dear all, FYI, if there are still HP-41C fans here, I upadate my Emu41 emulator > (for DOS ...) with full HP-IL support including 5 internal ( virtual ) > devices: one display, two mass storage units (DOS image file, floppy), a > printer interface (parallel port) and a DOS interface. All this is available as freeware, like previous versions. Please look > at my new home page at: http://membres.lycos.fr/jeffcalc As an option, I propose an extended version for a small fee with > external HP-IL interface support by using the HPIL/PC board (HP82973A or > compatible). > I know that many of you have an old 286/386/486 sleeping around, now you > can turn it into a powerfull HP-IL controller (41 compatible) or into a Distribution: world ==== s> Is there something that can simplify (kg^2*m^4)/(A^3*s^6) to Wb/F without s> thinking too much of what unit to convert to? Converting to SI base units s> is easy, but sometimes trying to 'simplify' certain units proves difficult. s> There has to be around this, no? Yes, there are several libraries for this on hpcalc.org: SIunits by Rub .8en P .8erez is excellent. It does a fully automatic job, but cannot be configured. So if you want speciific outcomes for specific units, it may or may not work. For your example above, it works. http://ca-on.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1619 XUNITS by Luis Morales Boisset allows to set your preferred units, and also tried combinations of these preferred units. http://ca-on.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4651 Utool is a library with many tools for Units. One of the commands is USIMP which needs to be configured, but gives you full control over the outcome. http://ca-on.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4612 There is also a UserRPL program for this task by John H Meyers http://ca-on.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=2911 Hope this helps - Carsten ==== I do! Cyrille, if you happen to need a replacement tester, I know someone who can keep his mouth shut... (me me me) > I hate to say it but that really was a dumb move...u do know that > Cyrille posts on these boards, right..... ==== You must be a TIborg or already employed by TI! Nobody wants you here destroying the hopes of this newsgroup for a better calc in the future! Go and swallow a TI92, hard to digest...if you catch my drift! !Demeter! ==== > Bill Markwick scripsit: > Leapin' Lizards! The ink wasn't even dry on those pixels when you guys got (almost) perfect answers. a while and the books always talked about lighting ratios ( make the main to fill a ratio of 3:1). Yes, well, how do I set the camera? The program takes the ratio as a single real and returns the f-stop, so 3:1 is 1.58, or 1 1/2 stops. Nobody noticed the embarrassing error, which (of *course*) I didn't notice until after. I had copied the constant out of a book without checking, and it's slightly wrong. It should be the reciprocal of the log of the 12th root of 2, or 3986.31369011. Hope nobody tuned their church organ to the other number! I seem to have invented a different breed of mini-challenge - you start with the program and have to figure out what it does (mind you, a lot of the shareware on hpcalc is like that). Bill ==== > You seem to like music ;-) Yes, indeed, especially the history of different temperament systems and how we ended up with equal-tempered. I once tried to get Joe interested in it, and I could hear the yawns all the way from California. :-) > last digit The last four, actually. Bill ==== > ... ass those two commands... ? :-) !Demeter! ==== > >> My roommate loaned me his HP 49G to solve some integrals that my >> TI-89 can't. How do I solve indefinite integrals on this calc? I >> don't know which arguments and in which order to pass them on the >> command line and when I use the equation writer and leave the limits >> of integration blank it won't work. > > Why don't you ask your roommate? :-) > > About the limits of integration in EQW, just delete the placeholders. I can on the TI-89, but not on the HP 49G. ==== Caesar Garcia schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Can one use units in the HP49 equation writer like you could with the > HP48? No matter what I try I can't enter them in the HP49. No, unfortunately the equation writer on the HP49G doesn't handle units. Roman > thanks for your considerations, Caesar Garcia ==== What a success ... I cannot sleep because I am so jealous ... > I've just agreed a trade with another calculator's fool, so I'll put my > hands in a 42S in *very* good condition soon > I've completed an ace's poker: 15c, 32SII, 42S and 48GX... > ==== > Would anybody like to share any recent opinions with Klotz Memory Cards. > > They look like quite a good deal. > > Tom I've just received a 2MB card from Oliver Klotz. It works fine, and all the ports work. I can't understand why the real cards are so expensive ! You have to be careful with the card though, because it doesn't come encased. I suggest getting a typical flashcard plastic pouch that is fairly widely available to protect it, when it's not inside the calculator. I can thoroughly recommend them ! Very good service and support so far. Richard S. ==== > > What are you flag settings and libraries that you are loading ? > > I can't reproduce it. Only yourself and Wolfgang reported this bug so far. > Since I made a couple of tests (ON-A-F and boot with backspace pressed to prevent libs. to load) and they have the same previous result, I think the flags don't care. Anyway here they are: {# 38800B2637D91FF1h # 0h #805010000A090141h #0h} ROM 1.19-6 of course (downloaded from your site). Loaded libs. are: Port 2: Bode v2.31 Bode-Routh v8.1 Solvesys Neopolys v8.1 Emacs 1.10 Longfloat v2.6 extable Xcell48 v2.1 Listr v4.2 Nosy 4.0 SDIAG 1.10 CQIF? v1.7.7 Matrix49 v1.0 Choosext 1.2002 Scribe v1.01a Organizer v 1.1 Polynomial v2.1 Port 1: InFormBuilder 1.6 Tetris 2.6 Saludos Jorge M. Valenzani ==== > What are you flag settings and libraries that you are loading ? > I can't reproduce it. Only yourself and Wolfgang reported this > bug so far. I think I found the bug. If a HOME backup contains another nullname builtin filer does not anymore work, either warmstart or a hang-up. Thus, the filer is foolish and thinks the first nullname from above (in Now, all file hiding tools are based on adding another nullname to the 48-hackers for the *normal* user and is probably older than Metakernel. Without hiding tools a somewhat advanced user cannot efficiently use his HP49 for things he is designed to (lots of numeric/symbolic calculations, graphics and simple programming). E.g., I have more than 60 files in HOME, but only the directories and some normal programs are visible, all other stuff like STARTUP, IOPAR, many units and other things which aren't directly used but must be disposable in e v e r y directory and which should never unintendendly be overwritten, are hidden. Clearly, I also have STARTUP in a CST menu, for fast access in case of need. This all keeps my HOME directory clean. Similarly, my directories MUSIC, PRGS etc are organized. A nullname should not itself contain a user-directory as was explained in older postings by JHM (in the hiding tools in Filer1/2, it contains a character, a smallest possible dummy, but it can contain anything). That hidden files are still visible in the filer is of advantage. A very young child playing with a 49 (the games on it) probably never enters the filer, hence one need not be anxious. Briefly speaking, hiding should at least be *respected* if not added in the operating system of the 49. That would cost nearly nothing. The builtin filer should procede look for the next nullname if there is any >>. PS for JYA: Your nice Makefiler tools for the SysRPL programmer do not allow a direct reprogramming of the Right-arrow functionality (unless using a lot of ML stuff of what I guess about 500 bytes). ==== > I think I found the bug. If a HOME backup contains another nullname > builtin filer does not anymore work, either warmstart or a hang-up. > PS for JYA: Your nice Makefiler tools for the SysRPL programmer do not > allow a direct reprogramming of the Right-arrow functionality > (unless using a lot of ML stuff of what I guess about 500 bytes). I'll have a look too. But normally, standard browsing key can't be redefined. It was designed that way (up/down etc...) If you currently can then it was not intended and will probably go away in a future version ==== > Your nice Makefiler tools for the SysRPL programmer do not > allow a direct reprogramming of the Right-arrow functionality > (unless using a lot of ML stuff of what I guess about 500 > I'll have a look too. But normally, standard browsing key can't be > redefined. It was designed that way (up/down etc...) > If you currently can then it was not intended and will probably go > away in a future version I can *overwrite* what I want because the lists in the list given to the flashpointer Filer_Manger have priority, and that should remain. E.g., I overwrite in my filers the ALPHA-key completely for my own simplified search option which doesn't leave the main environement as it does in your filer-draft for ROM 19-7 :-) ==== > You can use the command TEVAL. In this case you could for example > enter the number 9999, then enter the program << ! >>, and then press > [TEVAL]. The program would be evaluated, and the result of 9999! would > be returned on stack level 2. The time in seconds to accomplish the > task would be returned on stack level 1. Ok thanks, I'll check how long it will take this time. -- Al ==== > > (sorry i don;t have much time today) HP49G-experiments again? ;-) > you could look at reality from a scientific point of view (what is > being done here). this point of view is just a point of view between > the many floating around. a person who has studied lots of mathematics > will use his knowledge to interpretate the world with more math. the > person who has spent lots of time reading science will use his > knowledge to explain things more scientifically, and so and so. we > tint our reality with our knowledge. like when a person finds out that > his body is made of molecules he/she may choose to think that he/she > is a scientific object and say that that is the reality of his body. > although true, that point of view is just one in the many and to think > that that is the only or absolute reality would be living on a self > made world. for example, you can look at a table and depending on your > interests come up with a description. a description of something that > exists is always an interpretation that suits the interpreter > depending on his/her interests. science is just another interpretation > (a practical one, which i like) of that which exists. > > the fact that precedes all facts is you (or i). you (or i) see things > in a certain way, and that what you see (understand/interpretate) is > your reality at that moment. In fully agreement, with some commends. I would make a small (vague) exception regarding mathematics, and that is because mathematics/logic seems to be the basis of all our thinking. (Not sure, but the newest brain experiments *seem* to certify that - even feelings seem to be very logical and material in nature.) So, if the brain, which was made by a nature that we now want to understand, was made in this way that its kernel runs mathematically , then one could tend to say that it will best fit nature/reality using exactly this way of thinking. It does all what it does inside the laws which created it. On the other hand, this is not necessary. It could also be that we, humans, recognize too many patterns, where perhaps no patterns exist. We tend very often to generalize specific observations and make them to rules/laws, which we expect to govern the world, without any further proof. For example: Take the first law of thermodynamics. It was never proven but only certified over and over again in many many (but not infinite many) experiments. We see that a special behavior repeats itself again and again, and then we say that this again and again is the same like always . This is not deduction. This is induction, and also not perfect induction. It has been fruitable (and gave as machines, cars and the like), but it is not 100% sure that this has to be a law of nature, though very very very unlikely that it could be the other way around. It is very very very unlikely that we made all experiments that show us that this is a law, and none of the experiments that show the opposite, but it is not impossible. The other way, deduction, is also not necessarily absolute in what it says, because it needs axioms, things to start with, and these things are taken for the truth with no further justification. For example, nobody up to today can *prove* that A=A, though we seem to be incapable of even imagining the opposite. Any statement that results through deduction out of unproven axioms, is proven within and only within this set of axioms, even if those axioms seem to be of universal validity. What remains? Almost nothing? Not at all! The fact that we have managed to do so much (and meanwhile are able to destroy our planet) is a strong indicator that our vision of reality has to be at least very close to real reality . I would say damned close! Being happy that I can understand a tiny part of what is, I send my greetings to all, who I never proved they exist. Nick. ==== It's my first posting in this forum I hope I'm not a stupid man? I cannot add some days to an date in HP49 G I use the calculator since 2 days. Mode is ALG not RPN 1) 21,32001 in Diplay 2) CAT > Display DATE+ is activated 3) OK press 4) Display 21,32001 DATE+( ) 5) 25 in Diplay so that 6) Display 21,32001 DATE+(25) 7) ENTER 8) Message: DATE+ Error Too Few Arguments What's wrong in my work??? Hans Joachim (Ger) ==== jochen schrieb im Newsbeitrag It's my first posting in this forum > I hope I'm not a stupid man? I cannot add some days to an date in HP49 G > I use the calculator since 2 days. Mode is ALG not RPN 1) 21,32001 in Diplay > 2) CAT > Display DATE+ is activated > 3) OK press > 4) Display 21,32001 DATE+( ) > 5) 25 in Diplay so that > 6) Display 21,32001 DATE+(25) > 7) ENTER > 8) Message: DATE+ Error Too Few Arguments What's wrong in my work??? > Since I never used ALG mode, I'd suggest to switch to RPN first. Then adding days to a date is a trivial task. If you have entered 21,32001 as you did, you'll get an error because it's not a valid date format. Please enter 21,032001 and everything will go fine. This is because the year part starts in the third place to the right of the decimal sign. To add days to a given date, just put the number of days in level 1, then perform DATE+ That's all. Raymond ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** DATE+ takes two(2) arguments. for example in ALG mode do : DATE+(date, date to add) Demo By the way, NOONE USES ALG MODE :-) once you get used to RPN, you will understand why.... -- Demo Fight the spam, click on the link! http://www.hostedscripts.com/scripts/antispam.html Fight Spam! Click Here! Raymond Del Tondo p .92se v diskusn .92m jochen schrieb im Newsbeitrag It's my first posting in this forum > I hope I'm not a stupid man? I cannot add some days to an date in HP49 G > I use the calculator since 2 days. Mode is ALG not RPN 1) 21,32001 in Diplay > 2) CAT > Display DATE+ is activated > 3) OK press > 4) Display 21,32001 DATE+( ) > 5) 25 in Diplay so that > 6) Display 21,32001 DATE+(25) > 7) ENTER > 8) Message: DATE+ Error Too Few Arguments What's wrong in my work??? Since I never used ALG mode, I'd suggest to switch to RPN first. > Then adding days to a date is a trivial task. If you have entered 21,32001 as you did, > you'll get an error because it's not a valid date format. > Please enter 21,032001 and everything will go fine. This is because the year part starts in the > third place to the right of the decimal sign. To add days to a given date, just put the number of days in level 1, > then perform DATE+ That's all. > Raymond -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== I'll look at my options and see how it goes. Your suggestions were helpful. eshylay ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** > Btw: My serial number started with ID93.... if somebody wanted to know (I > know there has been some discussions about differences in calc-series). Mine starts with ID94, made in Indonesia. It has the rainbow effect on the > screen. I also have ID94 and sometimes I can see the rainbow effect, but besides that a found no problem. Do you maind that rainbow that much? You can still remove the screen cover to improve visibility. Does anyone know what series have serial port bug? Do you think it is possible to get a replacement? I live in Canada, bought > the calc > in the states. -- > Al Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== my serial no starts with ID93... and I haven't ever had any problems with my serial port... maybe I am just lucky because according to other postings my calc should belong to the one of the first production runs which have the serial bug... Just my 2 Rappen, Martin Demo schrieb: > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** > > > > (I > >>>know there has been some discussions about differences in calc-series). >>Mine starts with ID94, made in Indonesia. It has the rainbow effect on > > the > >>screen. > > > I also have ID94 and sometimes I can see the rainbow effect, but besides > that a found no problem. Do you maind that rainbow that much? You can still > remove the screen cover to improve visibility. > Does anyone know what series have serial port bug? > > >>Do you think it is possible to get a replacement? I live in Canada, > > bought > >>the calc >>in the states. >>-- >>Al > > > Demo > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** > http://www.usenet.com > Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== > I also have ID94 and sometimes I can see the rainbow effect, but besides > that a found no problem. Do you maind that rainbow that much? You can > still > remove the screen cover to improve visibility. > Does anyone know what series have serial port bug? I don't mind it that much. Most of the time I don't see it when I'm in direct light. It's just when I bought that I could see it clearly because I opened the package by the window. -- Al <5YVW9.41030$Hl6.4901328@news010.worldonline.dk> <8bCX9.6585$Sv3.647345@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> ==== > accessible]. I'm in France. Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either > www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? If not, it's merely a French > Connection problem. Just a question... Do you use any of the 'alternative' root name servers? -- ----- L'argument de poids qui dit que mes potes et moi on est d'accord n'avance pas .88 grand chose. On va voter les th .8eoremes, .8da ira plus vite que de les demontrer et elire les annees bisextiles, .8da sera rigolo. -+- BjB in http://neuneu.mine.nu : Le texosaure (s)electif. ==== >> accessible]. I'm in France. Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either >www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? If not, it's merely a French >Connection problem. -Joe- > Yes, from the Netherlands. None of your links work. Arnold ==== > > Yes, from the Netherlands. None of your links work. I'm in Portugal and all the links work fine. Steve Sousa ==== >> accessible]. I'm in France. Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either > www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? If not, it's merely a French > Connection problem. I am in Canada, the links work fine and load fast. -- Al ==== hi everybody, i would like to connect my hp82240a infrared printer to a pc. has anybody of you ever tried to do that or knows the protocol of the printer interface or the lower ir - protocol? thanks for all hints! ==== Apologies if someone already mentioned this: from http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030123/230090_1.html Press Release Source: HP HP Expands Its Calculator Line With Two New Offerings Thursday January 23, 11:01 am ET Powerful Graphic and Scientific Calculators Provide the Answers for Education Users News) today introduced two easy-to-use algebraic calculators designed specifically for the education market. The powerful calculators are also the first products to be launched as part of HP's wider plans to enhance and develop a full range of RPN (Reverse Polish Notation) and algebraic calculators for education and financial users. The HP 9g graphing calculator is an ideal entry-level tool for secondary school students or for anyone requiring the ability to graph and solve simple equations. HP has included the functionality and convenience of a split screen for equations and graphing; a programmable feature allowing users to enter their own data and computations; a graphing key; quick and easy metric conversions; and the ability to work in a variety of system modes. The HP 9s scientific calculator is suited for the everyday user and middle and secondary school students solving basic math and science and related problems. It offers convenience and ease of use for everything from solving metric conversion problems to balancing a checkbook. Key product features include six common metric conversions, decimal point selection, four basic operation modes and a one-touch button to edit statistics. The HP 9s and HP 9g are just the beginning of what we have in store for our customers throughout the coming year, said Fred Valdez, general manager, Calculator Division, HP Personal Systems Group. We've accelerated our product development plans and begun working with our new aggressive sales and marketing partners around the world. HP is partnering on sales and marketing with New Age Distributors in North America and Mexico, MORAVIA Consulting in Europe and Asia-Pacific and Abboud Trading in Latin America. The HP 9g and the HP 9s calculators are available in stores now at U.S. manufacturers' suggested retail prices of $39.95 and $14.99, respectively.(1) HP, the company that invented the scientific handheld calculator, offers a comprehensive range of calculators designed for math and science students, engineers, scientists, and financial and business consultants. More information about HP's entire range of calculators is available at http://www.hp.com/go/calculators. About HP HP is a leading global provider of products, technologies, solutions and services to consumers and businesses. The company's offerings span IT infrastructure, personal computing and access devices, global services and imaging and printing. HP completed its merger transaction involving Compaq Computer Corporation on May 3, 2002. More information about HP is available at http://www.hp.com. (1) Actual prices may vary. This news release contains forward-looking statements that involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions. All statements other than statements of historical fact are statements that could be deemed forward-looking statements. Risks, uncertainties and assumptions include the possibility that the market for the sale of certain products and services may not develop as expected; that development and performance of these products and services may not proceed as planned; and other risks that are described from time to time in HP's Securities and Exchange Commission reports, including but not limited to HP's quarterly report on Form 10-Q for the quarter ended July 31, 2002 and reports filed subsequent to HP's annual report on Form 10-K, as amended on January 30, 2002, for the fiscal year ended October 31, 2001. If any of these risks or uncertainties materializes or any of these assumptions proves incorrect, HP's results could differ materially from HP's expectations in these statements. HP assumes no obligation to update these forward-looking statements. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Contact: HP Lee-Khuan Goh, 858/655-3903 lee-khuan_goh@hp.com or Porter Novelli for HP Andrea Iraheta, 212/601-8162 andrea.iraheta@porternovelli.com ==== Powerful ? -- Thierry Morissette thm47@msn.com > Apologies if someone already mentioned this: from http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030123/230090_1.html Press Release Source: HP > HP Expands Its Calculator Line With Two New Offerings > Thursday January 23, 11:01 am ET > Powerful Graphic and Scientific Calculators Provide the Answers for Education Users > News) today introduced two easy-to-use algebraic calculators designed > specifically for the education market. The powerful calculators are > also the first products to be launched as part of HP's wider plans to > enhance and develop a full range of RPN (Reverse Polish Notation) and > algebraic calculators for education and financial users. The HP 9g graphing calculator is an ideal entry-level tool for secondary school students or for anyone requiring the ability to graph and solve simple equations. HP has included the functionality and convenience of a split screen for equations and graphing; a programmable feature allowing users to enter their own data and computations; a graphing key; quick and easy metric conversions; and the ability to work in a variety of system modes. The HP 9s scientific calculator is suited for the everyday user and > middle and secondary school students solving basic math and science > and related problems. It offers convenience and ease of use for > everything from solving metric conversion problems to balancing a > checkbook. Key product features include six common metric conversions, > decimal point selection, four basic operation modes and a one-touch > button to edit statistics. The HP 9s and HP 9g are just the beginning of what we have in store > for our customers throughout the coming year, said Fred Valdez, > general manager, Calculator Division, HP Personal Systems > Group. We've accelerated our product development plans and begun > working with our new aggressive sales and marketing partners around > the world. HP is partnering on sales and marketing with New Age Distributors in > North America and Mexico, MORAVIA Consulting in Europe and > Asia-Pacific and Abboud Trading in Latin America. The HP 9g and the HP 9s calculators are available in stores now at > U.S. manufacturers' suggested retail prices of $39.95 and $14.99, > respectively.(1) HP, the company that invented the scientific handheld calculator, > offers a comprehensive range of calculators designed for math and > science students, engineers, scientists, and financial and business > consultants. More information about HP's entire range of calculators > is available at http://www.hp.com/go/calculators. About HP HP is a leading global provider of products, technologies, solutions > and services to consumers and businesses. The company's offerings span > IT infrastructure, personal computing and access devices, global > services and imaging and printing. HP completed its merger transaction > involving Compaq Computer Corporation on May 3, 2002. More information > about HP is available at http://www.hp.com. (1) Actual prices may vary. > This news release contains forward-looking statements that involve > risks, uncertainties and assumptions. All statements other than > statements of historical fact are statements that could be deemed > forward-looking statements. Risks, uncertainties and assumptions > include the possibility that the market for the sale of certain > products and services may not develop as expected; that development > and performance of these products and services may not proceed as > planned; and other risks that are described from time to time in HP's > Securities and Exchange Commission reports, including but not limited > to HP's quarterly report on Form 10-Q for the quarter ended July 31, > 2002 and reports filed subsequent to HP's annual report on Form 10-K, > as amended on January 30, 2002, for the fiscal year ended October 31, > 2001. If any of these risks or uncertainties materializes or any of > these assumptions proves incorrect, HP's results could differ > materially from HP's expectations in these statements. HP assumes no > obligation to update these forward-looking statements. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > Contact: > HP > Lee-Khuan Goh, 858/655-3903 > lee-khuan_goh@hp.com > or > Porter Novelli for HP > Andrea Iraheta, 212/601-8162 > andrea.iraheta@porternovelli.com ==== Thierry Morissette schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Powerful ? > Of course, compared to a four-banger. Seriously, I think they aren't that bad, except they're lacking RPN & the big ENTER key;-) Raymond > -- > Thierry Morissette > thm47@msn.com Apologies if someone already mentioned this: from http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030123/230090_1.html Press Release Source: HP > HP Expands Its Calculator Line With Two New Offerings > Thursday January 23, 11:01 am ET > Powerful Graphic and Scientific Calculators Provide the Answers for > Education Users [..] ==== > Is there a command to complete the square? > > > sum or difference of squares. > GAUSS and its relatives seem to work only with X,Y and not with a single variable. For instance, if you put in 'X^2+2*X', it returns X^2 instead of the expected (X+1)^2-1. I'll have to root through the AUG for a while... worked really well on my 48 (thanks, Aaron!). Maybe the 49 needs one too. Bill ==== Hahaha! I got the exact result for g[n+1]/g[n] with Mathematica! Should be pretty easy to take the limit ;-) In[1]:= <Infinity]; In[4]:= func[1,1] 1 + Sqrt[5] Out[4]= ----------- 2 In[5]:= func[1,2] Out[5]= 1 + Sqrt[2] In[6]:= func[2,1] Out[6]= 2 In[7]:= func[2,2] Out[7]= 1 + Sqrt[3] Out[8]= Mathematica 4.2 for Microsoft Windows (August 23, 2002) -- Bhuvanesh ==== Generalized Sequence, namely, it takes X and Y as inputs, and returns the >ratio of G(N+1)/G(N) as N approaches infinity, where G(N) is defined by the >recursive formula: G(0) = 0 >G(1) = 1 >G(N) = X*G(N-2) + Y*G(N-1) Input: X and Y >Output: limit of G(N)/G(N-1) as N approaches infinity. Examples: There will be two winners: the smallest HP48 User RPL program that returns >the correct answer in *decimal* form, and the smallest HP49 User RPL program >that returns the correct answer in *exact* form. Happy Programming! -Joe- > My first solution for the 48 : Bytes: 35.5 Checksum: # E8F6h Time: Executes instantaneously. (pretty much ;) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. I downloaded menulibs.txt from www.hpcalc.org. It was created by J.Horn and contains an excellent list of HP 49G menu titles and menu numbers. Since it is dated 17 June 2000 and is based on ROM 1.19-1, I was wondering if there is an update available based on ROM 1.19-6?? GC. ==== > Every ones culture is not like the European, American. or other > patrilineal cultures. There are some matrilineal societies where the > women run things, They have all the money and property and ones > ancestry is traced back through ones mother and grandmother, etc. > A newly married man moves in with his wife's family. > > Makes a great deal of sense to me, you can usually be sure who your mother > was, not necessarily who your father was! That makes sence, but even then it is not reason for bosses and slaves ;-) *Only* joking, Nick. ==== IĒve for a very long time had some problems with my calc restarting, but now IĒve got a brand new hp49G calc and loaded it with the library of equations 0.1 from hpcalc.org and it didnĒt take long before my calc did a soft reboot again. It often happens when I use the library of equations 0.1 , but I like the program a lot, since there are formulas for columns and beams etc., which I use in my school. Am I the only person here, that uses the library of equations that get these soft reboot problems??? Since I didnĒt have many librarys installed other than this library it seems like it could be corrupt somehow or I think there must be a bug in the program... Is the development of the library finished? I could sure use some more formulas and I hope that the development of the library continues so that a version 1.0, could be released? What does everybody else have to say about that? Martin J. ==== > > IĒve for a very long time had some problems with my calc restarting, but now > IĒve got a brand new hp49G calc and loaded it with the library of equations > 0.1 from hpcalc.org and it didnĒt take long before my calc did a soft > reboot again. > > What does everybody else have to say about that? > I use James Purdy's eql49r27 and it doesn't seem to cause any problems, other than an annoying advertisement for itself that appears with every warmstart, but I removed that from $CONFIG. The library has all (or nearly all) the equations from the HP48 library. Bill ==== > danke vielmals f .9fr die hilfe! ich habe in der zwischenzeit ein paar > programme auf den rechner geladen und ein paar mal einen warmstart > durchgef .9fhrt. als ich es jetzt wieder probierte, funktionierte das programm > pl .9atzlich tadellos! weiss auch nicht, woran das gelegen hat. aber auf jeden > fall muss ich wohl langsam wirklich einsehen, dass ich auf RPN umschalten > sollte... ;-) > > thx & gruss > luigi Ja ja, Probleme, die von alleine verschwinden, pflegen oft auch von alleine zur .9fckzukehren. Aber da es im Augenblick funktioniert, who cares? Schalte auf RPN um! Du wirst es nicht bereuen. Und wenn Du schon mal kurz was in alg. Syntax eingeben m .9achtest, musst Du nicht unbedingt st .8andig hin und her schalten. Wenn Du Deine Eingabe in `` eintippst, dann wird sie wie im alg. Modus bearbeitet. Z.B.: In RPL Modus Tipp ein: 'X+X'. Dann Steht das Object X+X auf Stack-Ebene 1. Aber tipp ein `X+X` und Du bekommst 2*X auf Stack-Ebene 1, als w .8arest Du im alg. Modus. Die schr .8agen Hochkommata bekommst Du, wenn Du gleichzeitig [Umschalten-rechts] und [EQW] druckst. Viel Spass und bis demn .8achst, Nick. ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Do you want the recursion which takes ~ 20min. to calculate on HP48 to get all digits correct ? Or some kind of simplified expresion(which I haven't found yet:-) ? -- Demo Fight the spam, click on the link! http://www.hostedscripts.com/scripts/antispam.html Fight Spam! Click Here! Joseph K. Horn p .92 .8ae v diskusn .92m p [CapitalThorn] .92sp .9evku > Is it a new Mini-challenge for RPL programmers? > Or is it mathematical recreation for number aficionados? It's BOTH! > ===== BACKGROUND ===== Everybody knows about the famous, fabulous Fibonacci sequence that starts > like this: 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 ... Each Fibonacci number is obtained by adding the previous two Fibonacci > numbers; for example, the 55 was obtained by adding 21+34. Therefore, the > next Fibonacci number is 34+55 which is 89. If we call F(N) the Nth Fibonacci number, then the recursive formula is: F(0) = 0 > F(1) = 1 > F(N) = 1*F(N-2) + 1*F(N-1) Why are those 1* s in there? Because of what's to follow... stay tuned... One of the interesting things about Fibonacci numbers is the ratio of > consecutive terms, F(N)/F(N-1): 1/1 = 1 > 2/1 = 2 > 3/2 = 1.5 > 5/3 = 1.66666666666... > 8/5 = 1.6 > 13/8 = 1.625 > 21/13 = 1.6153846153846... > 34/21 = 1.6190476190476... > 55/34 = 1.6176470588235... > 89/55 = 1.6181818181818... As you can see, the successive ratios alternate between getting bigger and > getting smaller, approaching some number as a limit. That number is called > the golden ratio (or golden mean ), which is exactly equal to > (1+sqrt(5))/2, approximately 1.6180339887498948482... Fibonacci numbers and their ratios are well known. Less well known are Pell > numbers and their ratios. The Pell sequence starts like this: 1 2 5 12 29 70 169 408 985 ... Each Pell number is obtained by adding *twice* the previous number to the > number before that; for example, the 70 is obtained by doubling 29 and then > adding 12. Therefore, the next Pell number is 408 + 2*985 which is 2378. If we call P(N) the Nth Pell number, then the recursive formula is: P(0) = 0 > P(1) = 1 > P(N) = 1*P(N-2) + 2*P(N-1) Note well: this is identical to the definition of the Fibonacci sequence, > except instead of 1* and 1* in the last line, this one has 1* and 2*. The ratio of consecutive Pell numbers exhibits a behavior similar to what we > saw with the Fibonacci numbers above. Successive P(N)/P(N-1) are: 2/1 = 2 > 5/2 = 2.5 > 12/5 = 2.4 > 29/12 = 2.416666666666666... > 70/29 = 2.41379310344827586... > 169/70 = 2.414285714285714... > 408/169 = 2.41420118343195... > 985/408 = 2.4142156862745... > 2378/985 = 2.414213197969543... Does the fractional part look familiar? It should. The process is > approaching the limit of sqrt(2)+1. Now, suppose we generalize this. Instead of 1* or 2*, use X* and Y* in the > definition of the sequence. Would the ratio of consecutive terms still > approach a limit? Yes. Can a User4 RPL program be written to find that > limit? Yes. Can *you* write such a program? Yes. Can you write the > *best* program? Maybe! > ===== THE MINI-CHALLENGE ===== Write a User RPL program that Generalizes the above process for the > Generalized Sequence, namely, it takes X and Y as inputs, and returns the > ratio of G(N+1)/G(N) as N approaches infinity, where G(N) is defined by the > recursive formula: G(0) = 0 > G(1) = 1 > G(N) = X*G(N-2) + Y*G(N-1) Input: X and Y > Output: limit of G(N)/G(N-1) as N approaches infinity. Examples: Input: 1 1 <--- the Fibonacci sequence > Output: (1+sqrt(5))/2 Input: 1 2 <--- the Pell sequence > Output: 1+sqrt(2) Input: 2 1 <--- the sequence { 1 1 3 5 11 21 43 ... } > Output: 2 Input: 2 2 <--- the sequence { 1 2 6 16 44 120 ... } > Output: 1+sqrt(3) There will be two winners: the smallest HP48 User RPL program that returns > the correct answer in *decimal* form, and the smallest HP49 User RPL program > that returns the correct answer in *exact* form. > You can also use SolveSys 49 1.2 by Sune Bredahl, which has so far > solved any equation system I've cared to try. > Especially useful when RREF doesn't work due to a matrix lacking an > inverse, and it doesn't matter if you're solving a linear or nonlinear > system. > < http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/math/numeric/ss49v12.zip Always understandable it isn't the small machine, but flexible, oh yes it is! . ==== > -3X+6Y=4 > 2X+Y=4 > > ... LINSOLVE ... > ... /... > ... RREF ... > > Don't forget about the MSLV command (in the NUM.SLV menu, item 6), which > also works for non-linear systems. > > [ '-3*X+6*Y=4' '2*X+Y=4' ] <--- the system of equations. > [ 'X' 'Y' ] <--- the variables to solve for. > [ 1 1 ] <----- initial guesses for X and Y. > MSLV XQ --> [ 4/3 4/3 ] > > It leaves the level 2 and level 3 inputs on the stack, so that you can > search for multiple solutions by specifying different guesses. And like the > menu 30 solver, it lets you watch the iterative process in action. It's > slow, but cool. Inappropriate for linear systems, I guess, but fun to play > with nonetheless. And yet another one, thanks Joe! Yes, perhaps not designed especially for linear systems, but it can solve them, and has also its advantages. BTW, now that you said that, add another of the inappropriate commands to the list. GBASIS and GREDUCE. Mama mia! Do we have all now? Greetings, Nick. ==== > Mama mia! Do we have all now? Here's another one! Assume that two linear equations in X and Y are on the stack. << 'X' ISOL DUP UNROT SUBST 'Y' ISOL DUP UNROT SUBST EVAL >> That's the substitution method we learned as children. It can be extended to solve a 3x3 system by adding another line, or to an NxN system by putting the whole thing in a loop. That's precisely the kind of homework (writing such programs) that I assigned to my students to help them learn the substitution method back in the days when we used HP programmable calculators in the classroom. *sigh* Gone are the days. ==== > I've got a 48g that won't turn on or off reliably. It appears that the ON > button contacts stick together. If I spray contact cleaner through the gaps > around the key to clean off the contact, is it going to mess up or destroy > anything in the calculator? Should I remove the batteries (thus losing all > my programs) during this process? > I have cleaned the keys on a HP48SX successfully with tuner cleaner from Radio Shack, I do not remember it's exact name but it came in a red spray can with a straw. I took the sx outside and sprayed the keyboard until the solvent ran clear. I left it hanging vertically for several hours until it dried out. Oh, I removed the batteries just in case! The SX work fine for several months. I do not know about long term because it it was stolen. I have 2 SX's and a GX. The SX rules! ==== > > Your proposal makes the name nearly unreadable for a normal human being, > I made similar experiments already :-). above), which makes it a slight bit more readable. But as you said, the time is rarely needed. Thomas -- Thomas Rast ==== you could also use Archiv 1.01, which is a further development of BACK MANAGE 49 v1.0 by Javier G .97mez. ItĒs a tiny tool, which automatically creates a backup of HOME and PORT0 and stores the backup time-stamped in PORT2. Keeping it in PORT2 it easily shows all backups in PORT2 sorted by date and so allows an easy recovery of HOME and PORT0. Greetings Andreas > 2:HOME27.2.03 8:15 > *and* sorting by name will give more meaningful results. > > Your proposal makes the name nearly unreadable for a normal human being, > Filer2 which sets a ARCHIVE/RESTORE choose box inside the filer (see the > screenshot Filer.gif on my site below) omit the time and append to HOME > only the date. Either in EU or in US format, depending on flag -42. It > is unlikely that somebody makes several HOME backups the same day, and > even if, he has 3 ports to the disposal and may make additional backups > in the traditional way by hand. For RESTORE, Filers.txt proposes sorting > by type, not name, to have all candidates for RESTORE closely together, > exactly the ones of type DIR. Nontheless, it would be much better if > RESTORE accepts long names as does ARCHIVE. > > > ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/tools/ ==== > you could also use Archiv 1.01, ... ItĒs a tiny tool IMHO, a lib of 3.8 KB for a single task is not at all a tiny tool :-) Filer1 or Filer2 need only 1.8 KB, with the ARCHIVE/RESTORE choose box already included! Moreover, it seems that archiving that covers port 0 is useful for special tasks only. My present filer versions create a HOME backup either under the name HOME27.2.03 or HOME2-27-03 depending on flag -42 which toggles EU/US date format, and if it will be symbol 173. Clearly, also / cannot be used in the US format (it could if backups the same day in the same port, in alternative date formats :-) I experimented with a choose box collecting all candidates for RESTORE. But due to the type ordering facility, this is really unnecessary. What is important is that memory is perfectly controlled by the filer itself. If HOME has not enough free RAM for realizing ARCHIVE or RESTORE, nice filer. ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/tools/ ==== ?? Do you really expect him to reply on bugs in a product he hasn't been paid to work on for over a year? Just wondering... ==== > ?? Do you really expect him to reply on bugs in a product he hasn't > been paid to work on for over a year? Just wondering... Creative people like there creations, the more other people like it. Hence, you can be sure that JYA continues to work on the HP49 ROM :-) address ... I've to modify the following text in my critics of the future filer: Finally, the keys dot, 0, 1, 2 should list HOME and the corresponding port menus, resp. also if being in a directory, for instance The immediate port setting on keys 0, 1 ,2 is running perfect. The only problem is with the dot key. It calls the HOME browser only in the TREE mode. IMHO, it should do that always, whenever wanted by the user. Thus, there should be a choice option { NULL$ 0 46 TakeOver 49 } with BINT46 handling the HOME browser. By the way, in the 19-7 filer program-draft programming perhaps too fast :-) ==== > IMHO, a lib of 3.8 KB for a single task is not at all a tiny tool :-) Maybe not tiny, but useful and PORT2 is quite large :-) > Moreover, it seems that archiving that covers port 0 > is useful for special tasks only. IMHO it is usefull in general, because PORT0 is the fastest port and PORT2 is the savest port, while programming on the calc can lead to a TTRM once in a while the last status of the calc can easily be restored. Greetings Andreas ==== > Moreover, it seems that archiving that covers port 0 > is useful for special tasks only. > IMHO it is usefull in general, because PORT0 is the fastest port and > PORT2 is the savest port, while programming on the calc can lead to a > TTRM once in a while the last calc-status can easily be restored. programmers, but perhaps not in general. I meanwhile added two options (ArchivePort0 and RestorePort0) to the ARCHIVE/RESTORE browser of my filers (thanks for the idea). Nonetheless, these do not exceed 2 KB :) I cannot help saying that your programming style is fairly redundant, often observed in programs made with Debug2. IMHO, a tool should also minimize additional memory cost for using them. E.g., the port0-objects are saved in port2 with their tagged names in a list. This means a lot of extra bytes if port0 is long. Why tagged? The program itself could retag them. One should not overestimate the capacity of port2. With a few libs like extable or HPDemo, MIG musics, some games and greyscale pictures (not to forget long lib-sources) it fills up very quickly :-) ==== > you could also use Archiv 1.01, ... ItĒs a tiny tool > > IMHO, a lib of 3.8 bytes for a single task is not at all a tiny tool :-) IMHO, 3.8 bytes is nothing. Perhaps you meant 3.8 KB? -- Bhuvanesh ==== Take a look at Avenard's program: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3381 > I was looking aroung in the SysRPL manual, and saw the smiling face > grob that displays on the screen. Is it possible to write a code that will display a grey grob in the > stack, permanently? Even when calculating? If yes what kind of implications would that have on the speed of the > calc, display visibility, and so on? What different ideas do you have for the coding? Can you replace the > stack somehow? Or should the program handle everything, from keyclicks > to the display? I am just interested in your ideas. ==== Minifonts for all. What font size are you using on your HP49G for: > stack? > editor? > menues? > EQW? I am using the 4*5 minifont for all. I have no idea wether this applies to the other HPs as well, so answer at will. Michael ==== I just can't find a download site for the ROM version 1.19-7. michi_frey @ yahoo.com. Michael ==== Do you mean the ROM 1.19-7 beta beta which Avenard has not yet released due to fact that he no longer works for HP BUT the good news are that at sometime this year and the new ROM can be released. This may be in the summer. Avenard is the only one to give *exact* answer. > I just can't find a download site for the ROM version 1.19-7. > michi_frey @ yahoo.com. Michael ==== ==== after a year of messin' with the 49g, I can no longer tolerate the LOUSY keys - press too soft, the number isn't entered; press too hard, and you get duplicates. I think the 49g is fine calculator for symbolic manipulation - sans the keys (& maybe the screen cover)- however it is a poor number cruncher. If it were not for the keyboard, I'd keep the calculator - no doubt about it. So, I traded a friend my 49 for his 2001 48gx (+ his wife's unlimited baby sitting services for my troops!!). After reviewing HPcalc.org's hugh listing of 48's programs & documentation, could somebody please advise on the following: 1) What size ram cards are allowed in which port - i.e. I was told that port 1 handles up to 128kb only, and port 2 could handle up to 4mb? 2) HPcalc lists various manufacturers of ram cards. For the price, which card works the best? I'd buy an 'HP' card, by they're too expensive considering the prices of memory these days! 3) How about adding internal ram - it appears that Cynox will do this for a 'reasonable' price. Does anybody have any experience with this? 4) How is Meta kernel loaded onto the card - It appears to fill the entire port 1 128kb card? Are there any specific calculator configurations needed? I'd also like to incorporate Erable, any advice on how to do so? 5) What would you recommend to be the essential programs (and setup) for the 48? ==== That's right No doubt: http://uuhome.de/oklotz/index_e.html I think that you will with no problem, but as your calc is a GX, I'd prefer RAM cards MK fills the 128 card in port 1. The install process in very easy. You can then protect it selecting the Read only position. It all deppends on your field of work ==== Have found good informations here : http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/3844/ HTH, Pyerre ==== I'm wrong about the 1rst link, sorry ! This would be for a good reading : http://www.hpcalc.org/search.php?query=hpir Pyerre ==== I also live in Calgary and I purchased a 49G from www.samsoncables.com. Shipping was $16 US funds to get it sent up here and took about 2 weeks. I found that they had good customer service, but the calculator I recieved was defective and I had to deal with HP warranty and it was a big hassle. Samson Cables was good about it, its not their fault the calculator was defective. -Kiel ==== One question, what type of shipping method was used? Mine arrived by UPS Ground (from Samson Cables, $15 USD shipping), and the delivery guy wanted almost $80 at the door for miscellaneous costs. Did you experience any such thing? I sent the calculator back to Canada customs so that I can clear it myself, but I still have to pay $30 in tax... shouldn't that be discluded, considering that it's supposed to be a duty free item (made in Indonesia or China)? -- Al ==== Why not buy NIB, near mint, hardly used ...etc. from Ebay and ask the fellow to ship it in a small yellow envelop (small bubble inside) ship it up here. UPS is more expensive & will charge the broker fees too. HTH, Pyerre ==== You dumb jerk - why don't you think things through before you post? Here's the same program written properly so that it's smaller and faster. %%HP: T(3)A(R)F(.); << VARS 1 << BYTES NIP + Seasons greetings to you too, and get a tutorial. Bill Markwick ==== We are underwhelmed by your gracious presentation. ==== Don't believe them -- they are biased. No one has (AFAIK) done a study on which calculator is the device of choice for professionals. As things are, I would expect many more professionals to be using the TI-89/92+/V200 (if they use a calculator at all), since that is what they used in school. Do you like the RPN interface for the TI-89? That would be a good point on which to base your decision to get an HP calculator. The 49G, while marketed as such, is a good tool for professionals (who are used to HPs), not for students. Much slower? It depends. Sometimes it is the HP49G that is much slower. ?? Do you have a special edition TI-89? ;-) My TI-89 can go upto 449! I couldn't agree more. -- Bhuvanesh ==== I have a problem trying to convert a 48 into a 49 lib. The lib is called pront and u can find it in hpcalc.org I use hpconv and i can convert and transfer it to my hp49, and it takes it as a lib and not as a string (whoch i think is a most common problem) without using objfix. When i install it into port 0, it creates a directory called pront , which contains two programs: pront and about . When i run about i can see credits, but then it gets stuck, and when i run pront (which is the program) it just resets... I need the library so much... could u give me some help, i have no idea about programming. Spain