B7 ==== You can see the source (HP48 source) here: http://www.hpcalc.org/viewzip.php?id=2355&file=bz.s Aaron (reply to: awallace AT utdallas DOT edu) > I'm looking for source code for BZ uncompress tool, because I want to > compress NewOS kernel and uncompress it directly into Port 1. ==== 1) About keytime: The 49 stores a value that represents how long it takes before evaluating a key. This is to prevent accidental double presses of keys. The regular value is too high for most people. To change it, put a number like 300 into the command ->KEYTIME (~4000=1 sec). So to set my ketime at 300, I'd type 300 ->KEYTIME and push enter. Invalid syntax. I canÇt seem to find the right keystroke-combination... What am I doing wrong? 2) Whenever you guys are working with variables isnÇt there a faster way to purge them, instead having to go into the files menu or instead of having to press rightshift + eqw + var + corresponding function key + tool + F5...... It must be possibly to make it faster or anyone??? Martin J. ==== <3e286463$0$10987$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>, 1) About keytime: > The 49 stores a value that represents how long it takes before evaluating a > key. This is to prevent accidental double presses of keys. The regular > value is too high for most people. To change it, put a number like 300 into > the command ->KEYTIME (~4000=1 sec). So to set my ketime at 300, I'd type > 300 ->KEYTIME and push enter. Invalid syntax. I canÇt seem to find the right keystroke-combination... > What am I doing wrong? > (rightshift) + 0 + enter KEYTIME + enter will give you a space between the right arrow and KEYTIME, which parses as two commands. Put 300 on the stack then key in (alpha)(rightshift)0KEYTIME and press ENTER. 2) Whenever you guys are working with variables isnÇt there a faster way to > purge them, instead having to go into the files menu or instead of having to > press rightshift + eqw + var + corresponding function key + tool > + F5...... It must be possibly to make it faster or anyone??? > Martin J. ==== 1) About keytime: > I press 300 + (rightshift) + 0 + enter keytime + enter and get the > Invalid syntax. I canÇt seem to find the right keystroke-combination... > What am I doing wrong? > ->KEYTIME with no spaces is the actual command ie the right arrow is actually the first character in the command name. So try 300 [enter] [rightshift] 0 [alpha] [alpha] keytime [enter] > 2) Whenever you guys are working with variables isnÇt there a faster way to I use something one of the guru's posted sometim back. - Use the VAR key to get the normal menu of variables, - then {} to start a list, then select variables from the function keys to fill list with variable names you want to purge. - Select TOOL menu then PURGE { X Y Z } PURGE You can feed a list of names to many commands. I find creating a list of variables directly from the variable menu very useful. ==== > ->KEYTIME with no spaces is the actual command ie the right arrow is > actually the first character in the command name. So try 300 [enter] [rightshift] 0 [alpha] [alpha] keytime [enter] > - Select TOOL menu then PURGE > { X Y Z } PURGE You can feed a list of names to many commands. I find creating a list of > variables directly from the variable menu very useful. Okay... I still think that itÇs a lot of buttons to push to purge a variable, so thatÇs keeping me from using them as much as I would have really appreciate that. Best wishes to everybody in this group :-) Martin J. ==== Very sad that such a minor issue is going to keep you from using one of the best features of the HP48/49, personally I think it's extremely short sighted. With unlimimited variables and directory tree purging is normally done on multiple variables and not single variables as on more restrictive calculators such as the TI's. Unlimited means it doesn't matter if a few unwanted variables build up to be deleted at a later time. In terms of variable storage the 48/49 are like a drive in a computer and file management housekeeping is needed. Here are a few things I do to help housekeeping on the 49: - Reuse standard single letter variables for quick calcs like X,Y,Z etc. It is standard practice in maths that these represent unknowns. I never bother purging these and are normally kept at the head of VAR list for easy use. - X is very handy as the plotting and CAS functions all default or have shortcuts for this variable and X is available on the keyboard without using the Alpha key. - Day to day calcs are done in the home directory. Anything that proves useful is moved to an appropriatly named directory for latter use, the rest of the variables can be purged at you leisure or ignored. - When it is necessary to keep something stored permanently in the home menu. - The File Manager is very easy to use for major housekeeping tasks like moving and renaming. All tasks can be done quicker from the keyboard but the file manager takes less brain power which is normally in short supply. Finally if you don't want to take advantage of this feature you can just ignore purging variable and let them build up in memory. With the 48/49 it will be a long time before you run short of memory. A great improvement for the next Rom update would be to have the commands like PURGE that accepts lists of variables to behave like Wolfgang's hide command which with one command allows the entry of single or multiple variables. Let's ignore arguments that the 49 should never have moved the purge command from the keyboard and just leave it as a HP Marketing/Management lead stuff up. Stephen N. ->KEYTIME with no spaces is the actual command ie the right arrow is > actually the first character in the command name. So try 300 [enter] [rightshift] 0 [alpha] [alpha] keytime [enter] > - Select TOOL menu then PURGE > { X Y Z } PURGE You can feed a list of names to many commands. I find creating a list of > variables directly from the variable menu very useful. > Okay... I still think that itÇs a lot of buttons to push to purge a > variable, so thatÇs keeping me from using them as much as I would have > really appreciate that. Best wishes to everybody in this group :-) Martin J. ==== I agree Wolfgang your Filer2 is better than the standard file manager. I didn't mention it because it's functions aren't quite as obvious to use as the standard file manager which is covered by HP49 manual and a simple menu. Wolfgang's Filer2 is very useful with additional functions but a different menu. There is an extensive range of useful applications and utilities available for the HP49 but I just wanted to concentrate and encourage the management of variables and directories. Personally I've reset my keyboard to replace the standard Filer manager with Wolfgang's Filer2. Personally I am continually surprised at how flexible and powerful the HP49 can be. Even after nearly 3 years I would guess that I only understand and use at most 20% of over 800 functions. Stephen N. > When it is necessary to keep something stored permanently in the home VAR menu. - The File Manager is very easy to use for major > housekeeping tasks like moving and renaming. All tasks can be done > quicker from the keyboard but the file manager takes less brain power > which is normally in short supply. > Filer1 or Filer2 from hpcalc.org (or better from my site) are filer > replacements which are much more powerful than the builtin filer. > In particular, on you have a HIDE/UNHIDE choose box on the SPC key > if beeing in a directory. Moreover, my filers need no brain power > at all :-) The main menu contains a topic KEYS with a complete > information on the hardkey options. In particular, it tells you > SPC H?U/A?S (i.e. HIDE/UNHIDE in a directory, ARCHIVE/RESTORE in a port) Thus, SPC is a particular powerful, multifunctional key in Filer1/2. > Note that ARCHIVE from my filers creates a HOME backup with the date > appended! This is a really pleasant userface enhancement. And you can > keep various HOME backups in port1 and port2, theoretically even more > than 30 pieces, 100 KB a piece. Still an advantage of the HIDE/UNHIDE functionality in my filers: > You can unhide a selection of hidden files, not only all hiddens > in one keystroke as in my HIDE lib or in any other hiding tools. - Wolfgang > ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/tools/ ==== > When it is necessary to keep something stored permanently in the home VAR menu. - The File Manager is very easy to use for major > housekeeping tasks like moving and renaming. All tasks can be done > quicker from the keyboard but the file manager takes less brain power > which is normally in short supply. Filer1 or Filer2 from hpcalc.org (or better from my site) are filer replacements which are much more powerful than the builtin filer. In particular, on you've got a HIDE/UNHIDE choose box on the SPC key if beeing in a directory. Moreover, my filers need no brain power at all :-) The main menu contains a topic KEYS with complete info on the hardkey options. In particular, it tells you SPC H?U/A?R (i.e. HIDE/UNHIDE box in a directory, ARCHIVE/RESTORE in a port) Thus, SPC is a particular powerful, multifunctional key in Filer1+2. Note that ARCHIVE from my filers creates a HOME backup with the date appended! This is a really pleasant interface enhancement. And you can keep various HOME backups in port1 and port2, theoretically even more than 12 pieces, 100 KB a piece. Still another advantage of the HIDE/UNHIDE functionality in my filers: You can unhide a selection of hidden files, not only all hiddens in one keystroke as in my HIDE lib or in other hiding tools. - Wolfgang ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/tools/ ==== > ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/tools/ occured and saying that I have to make sure IÇm permitted to have access on your server? It says: 200 Type set to A. 500 Illegal PORT Command. 500 ÇLPRT 6,16,0,0,0,0,0... .etc. etc.Ç + command not understood.??? Does anybody know that or is this not the right forum to ask that question??? Martin J. ==== About your comments: > - Day to day calcs are done in the home directory. Anything that proves > useful is moved to an appropriatly named directory for latter use, the rest > of the variables can be purged at you leisure or ignored. > - When it is necessary to keep something stored permanently in the home > menu. I just downloaded the program... YouÇve just solved another of my problems I think... > - The File Manager is very easy to use for major housekeeping tasks like > moving and renaming. All tasks can be done quicker from the keyboard but > the file manager takes less brain power which is normally in short supply. YouÇre absolutely right :-) > Finally if you don't want to take advantage of this feature you can just > ignore purging variable and let them build up in memory. With the 48/49 it > will be a long time before you run short of memory. No, because I hate it whenever I then once in a while has to find a variable between a lot of crappy garbage variables - I like it clean and thatÇs why I hate to make those stupid small variables and delete them before they take over the power of my calc and fills it with crappy garbage :-) I just thought that there would be an easier way of purging variables than the way I used to do it, but it seems like the many of you also do it the way I do. > A great improvement for the next Rom update would be to have the commands > like PURGE that accepts lists of variables to behave like Wolfgang's hide > command which with one command allows the entry of single or multiple > variables. And when do you think thatÇll be? I havenÇt been into this group for more than about 3 months or so. WhoÇll make the next update? > Let's ignore arguments that the 49 should never have moved the purge command > from the keyboard and just leave it as a HP Marketing/Management lead stuff > up. Yeah... Martin J. ==== > I hate it whenever I then once in a while has to find a variable > between a lot of crappy garbage variables... GOTO that helps do it for me. It's only a minor help (you have to already know the name that you're looking for), but it's helpful enough that I use it many times each day. You type the name of a variable (in tic marks, of course) and then run GOTO, and the VAR menu is automagically changed to the page on which that variable appears. No more hunting through pages and pages of variables. 'GOTO' << VARS SWAP POS 5. + 6. / IP 1. % 2. + TMENU >> number of the menu page you're looking at. Since 'GOTO' itself will probably get lost in the VAR soup, you might prefer to name it something shorter or assign it to a key for easier access. -Joe- ==== >> Let's ignore arguments that the 49 should never have moved the purge >command >> from the keyboard and just leave it as a HP Marketing/Management lead >stuff >> up. >Yeah... If you don't like the fact that PURGE is no longer on the keyboard, put it back with built in userkeys, or keyman. You can place it where ever you choose, but how about on one of the delete key planes? Bill alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Martin Jorgensen p.92Íe v diskusn.92m pÀ.92sp.93vku 1) About keytime: > The 49 stores a value that represents how long it takes before evaluating a > key. This is to prevent accidental double presses of keys. The regular > value is too high for most people. To change it, put a number like 300 into > the command ->KEYTIME (~4000=1 sec). So to set my ketime at 300, I'd type > 300 ->KEYTIME and push enter. I press 300 + (rightshift) + 0 + enter keytime + enter and get the > Invalid syntax. I canÇt seem to find the right keystroke-combination... > What am I doing wrong? Make sure you have RPN mode on than: 300 (SPC) (right-shift) 0 (ALPHA) (ALPHA) K E Y T I M E (enter) I think waht you did wrong was that you did not press SPC after 300. 2) Whenever you guys are working with variables isnÇt there a faster way to > purge them, instead having to go into the files menu or instead of having to > press rightshift + eqw + var + corresponding function key + tool > + F5...... It must be possibly to make it faster or anyone??? > Well, maybe it is not the best way to do that, but I: clear the stack 1. press VAR 2. left-shift 3. push one of the soft buttons with VARiable name You WILL get Too few arguments ERROR ! Now you have var ID on stack 4. press TOOL 5. press PURGE soft button Martin J. Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Ooops: It should have been: Make sure you have RPN mode on than: 300 (SPC) (ALPHA) (ALPHA) (right-shift) 0 K E Y T I M E (enter) Sorry, Demo > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Martin Jorgensen p.92Íe v diskusn.92m pÀ.92sp.93vku 1) About keytime: > The 49 stores a value that represents how long it takes before evaluating > a > key. This is to prevent accidental double presses of keys. The regular > value is too high for most people. To change it, put a number like 300 > into > the command ->KEYTIME (~4000=1 sec). So to set my ketime at 300, I'd type > 300 ->KEYTIME and push enter. I press 300 + (rightshift) + 0 + enter keytime + enter and get the > Invalid syntax. I canÇt seem to find the right keystroke-combination... > What am I doing wrong? Make sure you have RPN mode on than: > 300 (SPC) (right-shift) 0 (ALPHA) (ALPHA) K E Y T I M E (enter) > I think waht you did wrong was that you did not press SPC after 300. > 2) Whenever you guys are working with variables isnÇt there a faster way > to > purge them, instead having to go into the files menu or instead of having > to > press rightshift + eqw + var + corresponding function key + > tool > + F5...... It must be possibly to make it faster or anyone??? > Well, maybe it is not the best way to do that, but I: > clear the stack > 1. press VAR > 2. left-shift > 3. push one of the soft buttons with VARiable name > You WILL get Too few arguments ERROR ! > Now you have var ID on stack > 4. press TOOL > 5. press PURGE soft button Martin J. Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** > http://www.usenet.com > Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== > Is there any way to easily convert a 48 XLIB's rom adresses > to the 49's rom adresses? i.e. a conversion program... If you don't find one, you can always do it the hard way, using the 48/49 cross-reference tables here: http://holyjoe.org/HP49.htm -Joe- ==== Joseph K. Horn schrieb im Newsbeitrag Is there any way to easily convert a 48 XLIB's rom adresses > to the 49's rom adresses? i.e. a conversion program... If you don't find one, you can always do it the hard way, using the 48/49 > cross-reference tables here: > http://holyjoe.org/HP49.htm > There should be such a program on www.hpcalc.org ==== maybe someone is able to set the FAQ and www.hpcalc.org links as repeated postings or alike to c.s.hp48, since there seem to be many newbies and people who don't know about those helpful links, and some who always first ask before RTFM;-) ==== > Today many cars are available with 100,000 mile guarantees and go that > long before a major tuneup. Sorry, but that doesn't sound *worse* to me! > My Explorer and Taurus have well over that milage each and are running - > and look - good as new (my 1977 VW ran 286,000 miles before I sold it). > I think this car argument is flawed... I've seen plenty of 30+ years old cars built in the 60s, I'm yet to see any > car of that age built in the 90s !!! > Gee, don't be so anxious! Just wait a while and it will come to pass! Geoff -- ==== I'd like some kind of utility that you could personalise that would automaticaly set the display type depending on the size of the number. Say <10^5 use 4 FIX else 4 ENG etc. Also like to have option for 1000's seperater in STD mode. Stephen N IÇll do the same as you, because I also think that IÇll get to switch a lot > between scientific and standard notation. > Bill Markwick skrev i en meddelelse > OOPS! Forgot to mention that before using MSOLVR, you have to run > MINIT. It checks the validity of EQ and creates the control variable > Mpar. The reason I missed the first time around is that I did a quick > test of a multiple-eq program and it ran without MINIT. Of course, > I'd forgotten that I'd used the same program recently and there was a > valid Mpar in the dir. To make up for this blunder, I'll reveal an earth-shaking secret. You > can use MSOLVR with a single equation, the advantage being that the > labels turn dark when you put in a value, unlike the single solver (30 > MENU). Just put two copies of the equation on the stack, make a list, > and store it in EQ. Then do MINIT MSOLVR. I knew it! I downloaded a program equation library and this program also > makes use of the MSOLVR (I think) and itÇs a very cool function - you just > (without knowing it) answered the question I had in my mind, that I wanted > to try to figure out myself, but luckily you revealed the secret... Thanx, > again. > Martin J. ==== > I'd like some kind of utility that you could personalise that would > automaticaly set the display type depending on the size of the number. Say > <10^5 use 4 FIX else 4 ENG etc. Also like to have option for 1000's seperater in STD mode. Eric Rechlin discusses how to do the thousands separator in a file called thousand.zip from hpcalc.org. I haven't tried it. Another thing I haven't tried but might be the answer to your number-format: if you turn on Custom Enter (flag -63 set), the Enter key will run programs in variables called alpha-enter and beta-enter each time you press it. I forget the finer points of doing this - maybe a UserRPL guru can come to the rescue. Bill ==== > I'd like some kind of utility that you could personalise that would > automaticaly set the display type depending on the size of the number. Say > <10^5 use 4 FIX else 4 ENG etc. Yeah... Also like to have option for 1000's seperater in STD mode. Eric Rechlin discusses how to do the thousands separator in a file > called thousand.zip from hpcalc.org. I haven't tried it. I downloaded it now, and it seems to solve the problem. But as far as I know thereÇs a little stupid bug in the program. I havenÇt programmed much for this calculator, so I hope that someone can optimize the code (as requested by the author of the program). As far as I know, the program doesnÇt consider whether there already are thousand separators in the number or not. And if you add a number to the the calculated number the thousand separators should be moved and this program canÇt handle that, nor do I think that it can make it an integer again, after placing the thousand separators... %%HP: T(3)A(R)F(.); << ->STR IF -51 FS? THEN . ELSE , END SWAP SWAP DUPDUP SIZE WHILE DUP 3. > REPEAT DUPDUP 6. ROLLD 2. - SWAP SUB 5. PICK SWAP + ROT + SWAP DUP 4. ROLL 3. - END DUP 3. - SWAP SUB ROT + NIP NIP >Another thing I haven't tried but might be the answer to your > number-format: if you turn on Custom Enter (flag -63 set), the Enter > key will run programs in variables called alpha-enter and beta-enter > each time you press it. I forget the finer points of doing this - > maybe a UserRPL guru can come to the rescue. Huuh? I tried it now and as far as I know the calc operates just like normal...... Hope somebody can explain how to solve the problem in a good way.... The thousand program is the best thing as far as I know... followed by assigning STD and 3 ENG + 6 ENG + 9 ENG I think.... Martin.. ==== Hey Is it (of course it is, more correctly how) possible to make a programme for the HP49G with eg. 2 variables that when on execution the programme asks you for the values to fill into this variables? Eg. Make a programme called funny that calculates: x^2-log(y^2) But when you type funny you don't have to write: funny,1,2 or similar. The programme simply makes a dialog box asking for the values (one at a time) for x and y, respectivly. How to do that? Anders ==== > Hey Is it (of course it is, more correctly how) possible to make a programme > for the HP49G with eg. 2 variables that when on execution the programme > asks you for the values to fill into this variables? Eg. > Make a programme called funny that calculates: > x^2-log(y^2) But when you type funny you don't have to write: > funny,1,2 or similar. The programme simply makes a dialog box asking for > the values (one at a time) for x and y, respectivly. How to do that? Anders What about << Values? { {X: Enter X-value 0.} {Y: Enter Y-value 0.} } { 1. 1.} {} {} INFORM IF THEN OBJ-> DROP -> x y 'x^2-LOG(y^2)' END >> Did you mean that kind of thing? X-Comment-To: ALL ==== These are just a few quick questions I was wondering as I look at NewOS: Are all of the compiled apps that come with NewOS reverse compatable with older versions the NewOS kernel/loader? Maybe some type of versioning system would be useful here. Also, will there be some way of perfoming inter-thread communication and managing threads from within other NewsOS programs? In what way does NewOS currently handle threads? Would there be significantly greater overhead in using a scheduler that would allow an arbitrary number of these at once? Finally, maybe there's a way of enforcing a 'user mode' of operation so that unprivilaged apps could be limited somehow. This is obviosly difficult without direct support of this feature by the Saturn but perhapse the use of some API that encapsulates certain sensitive operations and manages permissions could be encouraged by developers of newOS programs. ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** John Smith p.92Íe v diskusn.92m pÀ.92sp.93vku > These are just a few quick questions I was wondering as I look at NewOS: Are all of the compiled apps that come with NewOS reverse compatable > with older versions the NewOS kernel/loader? Applications are reverse compatible, because I am using static GOLONG functions @ the beginning of port 1. Those jump to non-static functions(those change version by version) > Maybe some type of versioning system would be useful here. Current out: kernel: 0.8.2.3 shell: 0.21 Did you read the readme.txt file ? :-) > Also, will there be some way of perfoming inter-thread communication > and managing threads from within other NewsOS programs? In what way does NewOS currently handle threads? Would there be > significantly greater overhead in using a scheduler that would allow > an arbitrary number of these at once? Currently every register of process have static place in memory a every process has it's own save & restore function in interrupt handler. In future I plan to use ONLY 1 restore & 1 save function in order to make kernel smaller & I should probably dynamicaly allocate momory for processes, so there will be no limitation. > Finally, maybe there's a way of enforcing a 'user mode' of operation so > that unprivilaged apps could be limited somehow. This is obviosly > difficult without direct support of this feature by the Saturn but > perhapse the use of some API that encapsulates certain sensitive > operations and manages permissions could be encouraged by developers > of newOS programs. Small note: use word developer instead of developers Currently shell suspends, GUI suspends & for future it will be supported for all programs. Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== [OT. Yes, Nick, I'm in the same boat as you: thinking out loud and always eager to learn, because learning is massively fun. -jkh-] > mean for searching reality. Sorry. The very thought that things perdure even when I'm not thinking about them (proven repeatedly by ordinary experience every day) is sufficient to convince me that there is something (called reality) outside of my mind which exists independently of my mind and which is not effected by my thoughts about it. > Ergo, by my claim that pi is real, I do not confuse reality with the > observed. No, it seems to me that you sometimes confuse reality with what > you wish to exist. It all fits so wonderful in a simple picture, if the > wished to be distance PI EMED, can be assumed to exist a priori. > But the wish for an easy picture is not a proof. Ok, here's a PROOF: Let's suppose that the point PI EMED does NOT exist in reality, but only exists as a concept in my mind. Ah, but point and location are identical. So, if a point does not really exist, then that location does not exist, and is a mere fiction, like the Land of Nod. One thing is certain about locations that don't exist: you can't go there. Therefore, if PI EMED does not really exist, then you would be unable to go there. Since that is patently absurd (what's gonna happen if you try? gonna run into a brick wall that stops you?), the original supposition must be false (by process of reductio ad absurdum) and we have thus PROVED that the point PI EMED *does* exist in external reality, Q.E.D. > Anyway, you talked about another definition of precision and > accuracy. Where is it? I don't see any here. Correspondence between two aspects of reality, whether observed > or not. Still I see no definition. Only interpretations. Suppose I say, A and B are in EXACTLY the same place (or PRECISELY the same location). I'm not interpreting anything, or measuring anything. I'm saying that their locations CORRESPOND. In mathematical terms, they coextend, and if they are points, they are identical points. This is true whether measured or not, whether known or not. Example: Is the warped spiral galaxy ESO 510-13 http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap010803.html a single galaxy that's warped (as everybody claims) or *two* galaxies seen edge-on, one in front of the other, and slightly askew from it (as I believe)? It *really is* one or the other (or some third as-yet-unimagined situation!) and really WAS that before mankind came along and might very well continue being what it really is long after we're gone. Scientists take great delight in cooking up hypotheses like these, and then VERIFYING them, which means seeing whether they CORRESPOND to REALITY or not. > P.S. Not every number has to be located the way you described. True, but real numbers do, no? No. Depends on what you accept as a valid way to construct the > corresponding distance. Locate PI on a straight line. You can't, if > you are allowed to use only ruler and.. the other thing with the two > legs, what's its name, compass?, Well I think you know which > instrument I mean. AAuuggghhh!!! Yes, WE can't LOCATE it... but it's REALLY THERE! If it were not, then what the heck is the point of math (no pun intended)? Proof: If it were NOT really there, then ANY talk about locating it with accuracy is pointless (pun intended) since that kind of accuracy is determined by the error, the distance between where I think pi is and where the REAL pi is. How can that distance exist if there is no REAL pi? Similar situation to PI EMED: If there were no real pi on a number line, then there would have to be a discontinuity there and you wouldn't be able to go through that point, but you can, so there isn't, ergo pi exists. I suppose a black hole might exist at PI EMED, but if it did, it'd be even EASIER to go there, although the final approach would suck. ;-) > Anyway, we started with precision and accuracy. There are strict > definitions of those quantities. The philosophical part doesn't offer > definitions but rather what each an every brain conceives and > thinks/wishes true, because it seems to make sense. Ah, but you accept those strict definitions ONLY because THEY make sense. Otherwise you're caught in an infinite regression: These strict definitions are based solidly on other solid definitions, which are based on something else, which, um, well, at some point it becomes *obvious*. In math, we call such a thing an axiom, defined as a self-evident truth that requires no proof. But some people claim that even self-evident things need proof. So I did (see above). What say you? -Joe- Ever rule has an exception is its own sole exception. ==== > [OT. Yes, Nick, I'm in the same boat as you: thinking out loud and always > eager to learn, because learning is massively fun. -jkh-] > mean for searching reality. Sorry. The very thought that things perdure even when I'm not thinking > about them (proven repeatedly by ordinary experience every day) is > sufficient to convince me that there is something (called reality) outside > of my mind which exists independently of my mind and which is not effected > by my thoughts about it. Thinking about reality is not the same like proving that the reality of any theory really exists. Theories are often telling us themselves that we are talking about something that has to do with reality but isn't reality itself. There is not a single theory that can be proven to be absolutely correct, the only thing that we can strictly do is to disprove them, when they predict things that contradict experiment and make them better by changing them. But, to say that something really exists because a theory predicts it is the very very old and very very naive thought. We have gone a rather long way ahead sionce that was believed. > Ergo, by my claim that pi is real, I do not confuse reality with the > observed. No, it seems to me that you sometimes confuse reality with what > you wish to exist. It all fits so wonderful in a simple picture, if the > wished to be distance PI EMED, can be assumed to exist a priori. > But the wish for an easy picture is not a proof. Ok, here's a PROOF: Let's suppose that the point PI EMED does NOT exist in reality, but only > exists as a concept in my mind. Ah, but point and location are > identical. So, if a point does not really exist, then that location does > not exist, and is a mere fiction, like the Land of Nod. One thing is > certain about locations that don't exist: you can't go there. Therefore, if > PI EMED does not really exist, then you would be unable to go there. Since > that is patently absurd (what's gonna happen if you try? gonna run into a > brick wall that stops you?), the original supposition must be false (by > process of reductio ad absurdum) and we have thus PROVED that the point PI > EMED *does* exist in external reality, Q.E.D. This is not a proof of the existence of PI EMED but rather a proof of consistency of concepts that are (up to a certain degree) useful for calculating distances, doing physics and so on. Speaking about go there, how do you prove that you are there? By measuring? How exactly can you measure the location distances. Can we really measure up to infinite precision, which would be necessary for saying that we reached PI EMED? It starts showing that we can't measure so exact and that the concept of distance might become very very unsusual when talking about distances at the edge of fermi distances. > Anyway, you talked about another definition of precision and > accuracy. Where is it? I don't see any here. > Correspondence between two aspects of reality, whether observed > or not. Still I see no definition. Only interpretations. Suppose I say, A and B are in EXACTLY the same place (or PRECISELY the same > location). I'm not interpreting anything, or measuring anything. I'm > saying that their locations CORRESPOND. In mathematical terms, they > coextend, and if they are points, they are identical points. This is true > whether measured or not, whether known or not. Example: Is the warped > spiral galaxy ESO 510-13 http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap010803.html a > single galaxy that's warped (as everybody claims) or *two* galaxies seen > edge-on, one in front of the other, and slightly askew from it (as I > believe)? It *really is* one or the other (or some third as-yet-unimagined > situation!) and really WAS that before mankind came along and might very > well continue being what it really is long after we're gone. Scientists > take great delight in cooking up hypotheses like these, and then VERIFYING > them, which means seeing whether they CORRESPOND to REALITY or not. Sorry, I still see no definition of precision and accuracy, though what you state above is undoubtfully everyday routine of science. But again, theories can prove a limited number of phenomena, always leaving space for what they can't prove nor disprove. To use your words, there can be an infinite number of theories that all predict the same result, and of which none can be declared to be more reality-like than the others, until some new phenomenon is discovered which can be explained using one but not the other theory. But one thing remains: To say that we have found reality we must first do every thinkable experiment, every thinkable test and so on, and find out that there is some theory that can explain all outcomings of all experiments. While a single contradiction is enough to disprove a theory, there is no finite number of explained experiments which can prove beyond anby doubt that some theory is the one and only description of reality. No theoretical physicist claims to be able to tell you what reality is. > P.S. Not every number has to be located the way you described. > True, but real numbers do, no? No. Depends on what you accept as a valid way to construct the > corresponding distance. Locate PI on a straight line. You can't, if > you are allowed to use only ruler and.. the other thing with the two > legs, what's its name, compass?, Well I think you know which > instrument I mean. AAuuggghhh!!! Yes, WE can't LOCATE it... but it's REALLY THERE! If it were > not, then what the heck is the point of math (no pun intended)? Proof: If > it were NOT really there, then ANY talk about locating it with accuracy is > pointless (pun intended) since that kind of accuracy is determined by the > error, the distance between where I think pi is and where the REAL pi is. > How can that distance exist if there is no REAL pi? The existance of mathematical constructs doesn't automatically imply physical existance. If you accept that a circle has physical reality then you must accept that pi has also physical reality. But this is a very very difficult question. Nobody can really tell that mathematical concepts have to find their exact analogon on real world. There is much correspondance and resemblance, but after all we don't really know if for example any possible distance is real existing because of eventual quantization of space. > Similar situation to PI EMED: If there were no real pi on a number line, > then there would have to be a discontinuity there and you wouldn't be able > to go through that point, but you can, so there isn't, ergo pi exists. I > suppose a black hole might exist at PI EMED, but if it did, it'd be even > EASIER to go there, although the final approach would suck. ;-) Not discontinuity, where did you get that? And about going through, don't forget knots of wave functions, locations where an electron never can be, and nonetheless it manages to go through. Who told you that you have to be able to go at any point in space that was thought out by some particular geometry? And how do you measure where you are? Do you have an infinite precision distant metre? > Anyway, we started with precision and accuracy. There are strict > definitions of those quantities. The philosophical part doesn't offer > definitions but rather what each an every brain conceives and > thinks/wishes true, because it seems to make sense. Ah, but you accept those strict definitions ONLY because THEY make sense. Because they make sence for a limited field on which I work. > Otherwise you're caught in an infinite regression: These strict definitions > are based solidly on other solid definitions, which are based on something > else, which, um, well, at some point it becomes *obvious*. To you it might sound obvious that distance is a continuum. But it might as well be discrete. So no matter how obv.92ous something is, it is not this that makes a set of axioms a basis for a theory. > In math, we > call such a thing an axiom, defined as a self-evident truth that requires > no proof. But some people claim that even self-evident things need proof. > So I did (see above). What say you? I say you should better re-read axiomatic set theory and its consequences. Then proceed to other stuff and tell me what to do with the axiom of choise. Axioms are used as premises under which some later statement might prove right or wrong. But not as eternal truths that have to be the same as reality. And you should have also mentioned that regarding axioms, it is possible to accept anything as axiom and go on constructing the corresponding theory that then might prove some statements right, which don't have to do much with reality. Mathematics is not only for measuring real existing distances. This is not the primary objective. ==== [OT] [EB] [RO] [TON] [OT] [EB] Warning: I'm enjoying this FAR too much to guarantee objectivity. :-) > There is not a single theory that can be proven to be > absolutely correct, the only thing that we can strictly do > is to disprove them... I agree. As I see it, theories are imperfect *explanations* of reality, are are never the same as the perfect reality that they explain. However, I hope you agree that it would make little sense to seek explanations of reality if there were no reality to explain. Thus the existence of theories ASSUMES the existence of an external reality... otherwise human knowledge is nothing more than a lot of meaningless wordplay (as Wittgenstein meaninglessly claimed). By the way, I strongly prefer to define reality and that which exists as synonyms. Of course, you may call it what you wish: External Reality, Existence, Actuality, Fact, Substantiality, Being, The Cosmos, Xyzzy... whatever word or words you prefer are fine with me as long as we mean the same thing by them, namely, that which perdures even when I'm not thinking about it... that which remains the same even when I'm asleep... that which has the quality of location (in the space-time continuum that we currently inhabit)... that which is Outside Of My Mind.... no jokes please about *me* being out of my mind. ;-) I prefer to call it Reality, and to say that those things in Reality have a property called existence... but if you prefer other words, fine, let's agree on 'em and then get back to talking about THAT (whatever you wish to call it). Ok? > This is not a proof of the existence of PI EMED... > Speaking about go there, how do you prove that you are there? > By measuring? I need not prove that I *am* at a place in order to prove that that place exists. Furthermore, imperfect measuring suffices! Outrageous claims? Here's my reasoning: Suppose you can only measure with an accuracy of one mile (pretty pathetic, but it suffices for this purpose!). So you go to the location 2 miles short of PI EMED (+/- 1 mile). Then you travel in a straight line to 2 miles beyond PI EMED (+/- 1 mile). In doing so, you must logically have passed *through* the point PI EMED. It doesn't matter *where* you passed through it or when; all that matters is that you did pass through it. But if PI EMED did not exist, then you would not be able to go there (since that's what a non-existent point means), and hence you'd be unable to go *through* it. But we DID go through it. Ergo, it exists, QED. We use this kind of reasoning all the time in ordinary life. If the temperature outside was X degrees an hour ago, and is X+2 degrees now, then it MUST have been X+1 at least once at some moment during the past hour. That's absolutely true even if NOBODY measured the time or times that it was X+1 degrees. It's an absolutely reliable statement about external reality, even if there is no way whatsoever to verify it with any kind of measuring equipment. Why? Because it fits my pet theories? Because it fits my wishful thinking? Because some professor told me that I have to think that way? Because God told me so? No! It's the same logic we often use in math. If a continuous function is positive at x=1, and negative at x=2, then there *must* be at least one value of x between 1 and 2 for which f(x)=0. *MUST* be. Does reality conform to this math? No, it's the other way around. It works in math because it's a quality of Reality. > How exactly can you measure the location distances. Don't need to, as demonstrated above (hopefully in a clear and convincing manner; if not, I'm sure you'll let me know). > Can we really measure up to infinite precision ... No, of course not. No need to. > ... which would be necessary for saying that we reached PI EMED? Aha, there's your logical flaw. Many things can be known, even with absolute certainty, without infinite precision... even with any particular amount of imprecision! Of course, that's heresy according to the Positivists, but I ain't a Positivist. Not all certainty comes from measurement, because if it did, there'd be no certainty at all about anything, which leads to the statement It Is Absolutely Certain That Nothing Is Absolutely Certain which is internally contradictory and therefore cannot be true. > But one thing remains: To say that we have found reality we > must first do every thinkable experiment, every thinkable test > and so on, and find out that there is some theory that can > explain all outcomings of all experiments. Yes and no. Yes, that's what is done to raise an hypothesis to the level of a theory. No, that is NOT what needs to be done to find reality. Theories are not reality. > While a single contradiction is enough to disprove a theory, > there is no finite number of explained experiments which can > prove beyond anby doubt that some theory is the one and only > description of reality. Quite right. But there IS one and only one REALITY, and it's the one that science and philosophy and religion is working so hard to wrap their minds around. > No theoretical physicist claims to be able to > tell you what reality is. None of 'em have dictionaries? Reality is That Which Exists. According to the Random House Collegiate Dictionary, reality is that which exists independently of ideas concerning it. Works for me. > The existance of mathematical constructs doesn't > automatically imply physical existance. If you accept that > a circle has physical reality then you must accept that pi > has also physical reality. But this is a very very difficult > question. I must disagree. Just because *we* cannot construct a perfect circle, nor measure a proposed perfect circle with enough accuracy to prove it so, is NOT proof that perfect circles do not exist. Of course they DO exist; an infinite number of 'em are spinning around your head this very instant. > Nobody can really tell that mathematical > concepts have to find their exact analogon on real world. True; many mathematical concepts do not correspond with simple physical reality. But extension (length, volume, time, position) certainly does. The real numbers, including pi, fall into that category. > Similar situation to PI EMED: If there were no real pi on a number line, > then there would have to be a discontinuity there and you wouldn't be able > to go through that point, but you can, so there isn't, ergo pi exists. I > suppose a black hole might exist at PI EMED, but if it did, it'd be even > EASIER to go there, although the final approach would suck. ;-) Not discontinuity, where did you get that? Doesn't non-existing location mean that? A hole. A gap. A place that isn't there. A place you can't go to. In other words, a discontinuity. > No matter how obv.92ous something is, it is not this > that makes a set of axioms a basis for a theory. I'm not talking about theories. I'm talking about the reality which theories attempt to explain, a reality that's actually out there, a reality about which many things are obvious, some less so, and some not at all. Just because some things are complicated does not convince me that everything has to be complicated. Some things really are simple. Eastern mystics even argue that *everything* is simple, and it's only the mind of man that has complicated it by trying to fabricate mental constructions that describe reality (with a flood of words) better than reality describes itself (by merely existing). I disagree with that, since an apple does not *describe* itself by merely existing. But they do have a point: throwing big words at reality might not make it go away but it can certainly impede experience of it. > It is possible to accept anything as axiom and go on > constructing the corresponding theory that then might > prove some statements right, which don't have to do > much with reality. Ah, you're right. My mistake; I should not have used axioms as an example. > Mathematics is not only for measuring real existing distances. Please remember, I'm not talking about measuring anything. I'm not a positivist. > This is not the primary objective. The primary objective, as I see it, is equivalent to determining whether there *really exists* (in external reality, apart from any thoughts about it) a point in space corresponding to PI EMED. That can be determined with absolute certainty with even the crudest of measuring devices... and something to keep the vacuum of space from boiling you, of course. -The Real Joseph K. Horn- ... or do I only *think* that I'm me? ==== time for fun :) get a piece of paper and draw to small vertical lines (|) then at the top of each line write (pi-1) and (pi+1). now you can find pi with infinite precision. it is in the middle! what you don't believe me? now that you know the secret, whenever you are in a test and you don't know an answer, draw a circle. later on, challenge the teacher and tell him that the answer was obvious because the answer is inside the circle! go to the restaurant and order the best meal, then draw a donut in a napkin (that will be your money).when it is time to pay, give them the napkin. if things heat up, pull out your hp49g and show the big guy at the door (the one blocking your way out) that he is wrong! the circle has plenty of power. never underestimate it. drink pepsy, enjoy your body. :) hi hi hi ==== > get a piece of paper and draw to small vertical lines (|) then at the > top of each line write (pi-1) and (pi+1). now you can find pi with > infinite precision. > it is in the middle! what you don't believe me? now that you know the secret, whenever you are in a test and you don't > know an answer, draw a circle. later on, challenge the teacher and > tell him that the answer was obvious because the answer is inside the > circle! go to the restaurant and order the best meal, then draw a donut in a > napkin (that will be your money).when it is time to pay, give them the > napkin. if things heat up, pull out your hp49g and show the big guy at > the door (the one blocking your way out) that he is wrong! the circle > has plenty of power. never underestimate it. drink pepsy, enjoy your > body. :) hi hi hi I tried that in a restaurant but the guy at the door demonstrated that the power of the circle is even greater! He put me in the centrifugal machine and separated me very quickly from my money. Since then I have problems, I always miss the keys on my HP49G. Greetings and glglglglggl (the consequence of centrifuging Nick), ==== hi Joe, Nick, what an interesting topic! would you mind if i jump in? in my opinion, reality and existence are two different things. reality is what we come to know through interpretation (by becoming aware of). we become aware of existing things (or other things that don't exist like abstractions, symbols, or whatever) through interpretation. reality is interpretation (the nature of reality is interpretation). we come to know things through interpretation and this 'know' is what we call reality. yes, things exist, no doubt, but the thing is interpreted in a suitable manner that suits the interpreter. existence by itself does not form reality. an object that exists can have different realities to different observers depending on the interpretation of each person. the ultimate interpretation is the one we do in order to live. we see things in a way that allows us to keep living. a fictitious point can have reality (can be real) and yet not exist. also an object can exist and yet not have reality (by us not being aware of it). reality is relative, it doesn't exist outside a person (or machine). reality has no existence outside of the mind. > [OT. Yes, Nick, I'm in the same boat as you: thinking out loud and always > eager to learn, because learning is massively fun. -jkh-] > mean for searching reality. Sorry. The very thought that things perdure even when I'm not thinking > about them (proven repeatedly by ordinary experience every day) is > sufficient to convince me that there is something (called reality) outside > of my mind which exists independently of my mind and which is not effected > by my thoughts about it. > Ergo, by my claim that pi is real, I do not confuse reality with the > observed. No, it seems to me that you sometimes confuse reality with what > you wish to exist. It all fits so wonderful in a simple picture, if the > wished to be distance PI EMED, can be assumed to exist a priori. > But the wish for an easy picture is not a proof. Ok, here's a PROOF: Let's suppose that the point PI EMED does NOT exist in reality, but only > exists as a concept in my mind. Ah, but point and location are > identical. So, if a point does not really exist, then that location does > not exist, and is a mere fiction, like the Land of Nod. One thing is > certain about locations that don't exist: you can't go there. Therefore, if > PI EMED does not really exist, then you would be unable to go there. Since > that is patently absurd (what's gonna happen if you try? gonna run into a > brick wall that stops you?), the original supposition must be false (by > process of reductio ad absurdum) and we have thus PROVED that the point PI > EMED *does* exist in external reality, Q.E.D. > Anyway, you talked about another definition of precision and > accuracy. Where is it? I don't see any here. > Correspondence between two aspects of reality, whether observed > or not. Still I see no definition. Only interpretations. Suppose I say, A and B are in EXACTLY the same place (or PRECISELY the same > location). I'm not interpreting anything, or measuring anything. I'm > saying that their locations CORRESPOND. In mathematical terms, they > coextend, and if they are points, they are identical points. This is true > whether measured or not, whether known or not. Example: Is the warped > spiral galaxy ESO 510-13 http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap010803.html a > single galaxy that's warped (as everybody claims) or *two* galaxies seen > edge-on, one in front of the other, and slightly askew from it (as I > believe)? It *really is* one or the other (or some third as-yet-unimagined > situation!) and really WAS that before mankind came along and might very > well continue being what it really is long after we're gone. Scientists > take great delight in cooking up hypotheses like these, and then VERIFYING > them, which means seeing whether they CORRESPOND to REALITY or not. > P.S. Not every number has to be located the way you described. > True, but real numbers do, no? No. Depends on what you accept as a valid way to construct the > corresponding distance. Locate PI on a straight line. You can't, if > you are allowed to use only ruler and.. the other thing with the two > legs, what's its name, compass?, Well I think you know which > instrument I mean. AAuuggghhh!!! Yes, WE can't LOCATE it... but it's REALLY THERE! If it were > not, then what the heck is the point of math (no pun intended)? Proof: If > it were NOT really there, then ANY talk about locating it with accuracy is > pointless (pun intended) since that kind of accuracy is determined by the > error, the distance between where I think pi is and where the REAL pi is. > How can that distance exist if there is no REAL pi? Similar situation to PI EMED: If there were no real pi on a number line, > then there would have to be a discontinuity there and you wouldn't be able > to go through that point, but you can, so there isn't, ergo pi exists. I > suppose a black hole might exist at PI EMED, but if it did, it'd be even > EASIER to go there, although the final approach would suck. ;-) Anyway, we started with precision and accuracy. There are strict > definitions of those quantities. The philosophical part doesn't offer > definitions but rather what each an every brain conceives and > thinks/wishes true, because it seems to make sense. Ah, but you accept those strict definitions ONLY because THEY make sense. > Otherwise you're caught in an infinite regression: These strict definitions > are based solidly on other solid definitions, which are based on something > else, which, um, well, at some point it becomes *obvious*. In math, we > call such a thing an axiom, defined as a self-evident truth that requires > no proof. But some people claim that even self-evident things need proof. > So I did (see above). What say you? -Joe- > Ever rule has an exception is its own sole exception. ==== > hi Joe, Nick, > what an interesting topic! would you mind if i jump in? Go ahead and jump, jump. (Van Halen 1984) ;-) > in my opinion, reality and existence are two different things. reality > is what we come to know through interpretation (by becoming aware of). > we become aware of existing things (or other things that don't exist > like abstractions, symbols, or whatever) through interpretation. > reality is interpretation (the nature of reality is interpretation). > we come to know things through interpretation and this 'know' is what > we call reality. yes, things exist, no doubt, but the thing is > interpreted in a suitable manner that suits the interpreter. existence > by itself does not form reality. an object that exists can have > different realities to different observers depending on the > interpretation of each person. the ultimate interpretation is the one > we do in order to live. we see things in a way that allows us to keep > living. > a fictitious point can have reality (can be real) and yet not exist. > also an object can exist and yet not have reality (by us not being > aware of it). reality is relative, it doesn't exist outside a person > (or machine). reality has no existence outside of the mind. > ==== Is there any command to simplify exp(n*ln(x)) to x^n? I have some large equations, and they'd be easier to read if this was simplified. A small example: I want 5^n - 1 instead of (exp((n+1)*ln(5))-5)/5 It gets more complicated with larger equations, any ideas? -- Al ==== > Is there any command to simplify exp(n*ln(x)) to x^n? I have some large > equations, and they'd be easier to read if this was simplified. A small example: > I want 5^n - 1 instead of (exp((n+1)*ln(5))-5)/5 It gets more complicated with larger equations, any ideas? Try the command: EXP2POW It s in the [LS] [CONVERT] [REWRITE] menu. (ROM 1.19-6) Hope this helps! Alex Markatis Civil Engineer Greece ==== EXP2POW It s in the [LS] [CONVERT] [REWRITE] menu. > (ROM 1.19-6) I had to simplify it after the EXP2POW command and then do the EXP2POW -- Al ==== I'm trying to use kermit to transfer files from my pc to the hp48g and it can't connect to my calculator, I was wondering if somebody knows if one have to do something with the serial port in the computer before start to transfer or running the program, is there a way to test the serial cable? ==== > I'm trying to use kermit to transfer files from my pc to the hp48g and it > can't connect to my calculator, I was wondering if somebody knows if one > have to do something with the serial port in the computer before start to > transfer or running the program, is there a way to test the serial cable? To use Kermit, make sure that the kermit software is set in Server Mode before you connect. The calculator will then handel the rest of the transfer for you. ==== I'm trying to use kermit to transfer files from my pc to the hp48g and it > can't connect to my calculator, I was wondering if somebody knows if one > have to do something with the serial port in the computer before start to > transfer or running the program, is there a way to test the serial cable? To use Kermit, make sure that the kermit software is set in Server Mode > before you connect. The calculator will then handel the rest of the transfer > for you. Also set the Baude to 9600 and the error correction to type 3 (CRC) ==== Hoe do you convert different units with the 49g? I can enter a value and make it cm, or m/s, or whatever, but I can't change it to something else. ==== > Hoe do you convert different units with the 49g? I can enter a value and > make it cm, or m/s, or whatever, but I can't change it to something else. Actually, you can! Several methods: - Leftshift whatever unit you want to convert to. - put 0_unit that you want to convert to and press add - use the CONVERT command -- Kenyon Ralph | www.theralphs.us | Semper Fi ==== > Several methods: - Leftshift whatever unit you want to convert to. How? What do you mean with leftshift? Nothing happens if you open the units box and then click the leftarrow and then ok. - put 0_unit that you want to convert to and press add Which add? I'm thinking that you have the hp48g(x) instead of the hp49g, cause it doesn't work the same way! - use the CONVERT command Now this actually works :-) 2: 5_cm^3 1: 1_m^3 Find the CONVERT command (not the convert button) and then you get: 1: 0.000005_m^3 Isn't there another way on the hp49g? I find it annoying that you have to write 1_UNITYOUWANTTOCONVERTTO everytime. Anders ==== - Leftshift whatever unit you want to convert to. How? What do you mean with leftshift? Nothing happens if you open the > units box and then click the leftarrow and then ok. I was assuming the usage of softkey menus (the better way in my opinion). > - put 0_unit that you want to convert to and press add Which add? I'm thinking that you have the hp48g(x) instead of the hp49g, > cause it doesn't work the same way! I'm assuming RPN mode is being used. If you're in algebraic it should still work, just do 1_cm + 0_m ENTER. But I haven't tried that since I don't use algebraic mode. > - use the CONVERT command Now this actually works :-) > 2: 5_cm^3 > 1: 1_m^3 > Find the CONVERT command (not the convert button) and then you get: > 1: 0.000005_m^3 Isn't there another way on the hp49g? I find it annoying that you have > to write 1_UNITYOUWANTTOCONVERTTO everytime. The leftshift way is what you're looking for. In RPN mode and soft menu (flag 117) it's like this: rightshift UNITS TIME 1: 5_min leftshift s 1: 300_s -- Kenyon Ralph | www.theralphs.us | Semper Fi ==== Between the two of you, you more than answered my question. :) I changed my calculator to softkey menus, (boy is this ever a good idea!) however, now that I have all the different units at the bottom of my screen, how do I put it back to the standard menu? I can get back if I do a reboot, but there must be a simple way. I hope. Alex. > - Leftshift whatever unit you want to convert to. How? What do you mean with leftshift? Nothing happens if you open the > units box and then click the leftarrow and then ok. I was assuming the usage of softkey menus (the better way in my opinion). > - put 0_unit that you want to convert to and press add Which add? I'm thinking that you have the hp48g(x) instead of the hp49g, > cause it doesn't work the same way! I'm assuming RPN mode is being used. If you're in algebraic it should still > work, just do 1_cm + 0_m ENTER. But I haven't tried that since I don't use > algebraic mode. > - use the CONVERT command Now this actually works :-) > 2: 5_cm^3 > 1: 1_m^3 > Find the CONVERT command (not the convert button) and then you get: > 1: 0.000005_m^3 Isn't there another way on the hp49g? I find it annoying that you have > to write 1_UNITYOUWANTTOCONVERTTO everytime. The leftshift way is what you're looking for. In RPN mode and soft menu > (flag 117) it's like this: rightshift UNITS TIME > 1: 5_min > leftshift s > 1: 300_s -- > Kenyon Ralph | www.theralphs.us | Semper Fi ==== > however, now that I have all the different units at the bottom of my screen, > how do I put it back to the standard menu? I can get back if I do a reboot, > but there must be a simple way. I hope. TOOL. -Joe- ==== > I changed my calculator to softkey menus, (boy is this ever a good idea!) > however, now that I have all the different units at the bottom of my screen, > how do I put it back to the standard menu? What do you mean by the standard menu? There is no standard menu. Via STARTUP you can make any menu your personal standard menu. If you mean the VARS menu simply press VARS. As a matter of fact, for no task the RPN mode is more urgendly needed as for unit-management. And once you got used to it, you can completely customize the entire UNIT system with Unitman on hpcalc.org (which has got Eric's famous GetIt star :-) - Wolfgang PS. Unfortunately, the HP49 handbooks completely ignore the consise description of the famous and clever unit-management of the 48, although still present on the 49, but neglected. Including, in particular, unit-conversion with left-shift. According to HP itself, the smart HP48 unit-management was a main reason for the success of the 48-series. The HP49 OS should be programmed as follows: in the very moment a unit-menu is launched no matter whether in Algebraic or RPN mode, the leftshift menu keys Y=, WIN, etc should switch to the units conversion mode as presently only in RPN-mode. The shifting of the functionalities Y=, WIN etc to leftshift-hold in RPN mode, is a fauler Kompromiss as we say in German. This could have completely be avoided. a r I can get back if I do a reboot, > but there must be a simple way. I hope. Alex. > - Leftshift whatever unit you want to convert to. > How? What do you mean with leftshift? Nothing happens if you open the > units box and then click the leftarrow and then ok. I was assuming the usage of softkey menus (the better way in my opinion). > - put 0_unit that you want to convert to and press add > Which add? I'm thinking that you have the hp48g(x) instead of the hp49g, > cause it doesn't work the same way! I'm assuming RPN mode is being used. If you're in algebraic it should > still > work, just do 1_cm + 0_m ENTER. But I haven't tried that since I don't > use > algebraic mode. > - use the CONVERT command > Now this actually works :-) > 2: 5_cm^3 > 1: 1_m^3 > Find the CONVERT command (not the convert button) and then you get: > 1: 0.000005_m^3 > Isn't there another way on the hp49g? I find it annoying that you have > to write 1_UNITYOUWANTTOCONVERTTO everytime. The leftshift way is what you're looking for. In RPN mode and soft menu > (flag 117) it's like this: rightshift UNITS TIME > 1: 5_min > leftshift s > 1: 300_s -- > Kenyon Ralph | www.theralphs.us | Semper Fi ==== > is definitely obsolate for the font browser ChFnt > of Fontman which looks for fonts in any port. There > is absolutely no need for recalculation modulo 245. You missed Joe's point. I think you read it too fast You can perfectly have a font with an ID > 244, fact that has never been denied. But you won't be able to use them in the text editor due to how changing style is coded inside the string As an example try this: Store all your fonts in either HOME or PORT0, including those with an ID > 244 (for FONT) none of the font with an ID > 244 will appear. Now on a side note, I don't see much point to have permanently a tool on your calculator allowing you to change the ID of the font. You're going to use it on a very rare occasion. The idea being an ID font is to have an universal coding so if you take a text with embedded styiling it will look the same on any machines. Not just on yours. If you change the ID of a font and you're the only one doing it that way, you won't be able to send your document without loosing its style ==== > You missed Joe's point. I think you read it too fast Yes, I'll add some remark to Fontman.txt but the parameter changer will continue to recalculate modulo 256 (not 245). By the way, the command DOCHR calculates itself modulo 256 with the nullcharacter for negative argumemts. > I don't see much point to have permanently a tool on > your calculator allowing you to change the ID of the font. You're > going to use it on a very rare occasion. Thats right. Fontman is useful only for those creating new fonts, but since Fontman is smaller than any font, one can afford to have it in a port even for rare occasion. Very useful for specialists. E.g., I generated a font 7 (LogicFnt) which is more readable than the builtin Font7 and useful for math and logic. Since I intend to publish it, it should have its own ID. > ... if you take a text with embedded styiling it will look > for the same on any machines. Not just on yours. If I understand correctly, the OS looks for the ID o n l y if some styling is embedded, otherwise the font ID is ignored. I'll add this interesting information to Fontman.txt. Maybe it is in the Metakernel docu but I never read it :-) Wolfgang ==== > Yes, I'll add some remark to Fontman.txt but the parameter changer > will continue to recalculate modulo 256 (not 245). That's a good solution. That way, intelligent users will know why to avoid font ID's above 244, but will still be able to use a font ID above 244 if they really want to for some reason. I'm a member of the inform me of the -Joe- ==== > Suggestion: recalculate the font ID modulo 245 instead of 256 is definitely obsolate for the font browser ChFnt > of Fontman which looks for fonts in any port. There > is absolutely no need for recalculation modulo 245. What about styles embedded in strings? For example: and are both encoded as , which is only interpreted by the HP49G's as . Any attempt to embed a font as a style fails if the font's ID is between 245 and 255. Therefore, font ID's above 244 should never be used, unless the font will NEVER be used for embedded string styles, which would be an unnecessary limitation for an HP49G font. -Joe- ==== I've just agreed a trade with another calculator's fool, so I'll put my hands in a 42S in *very* good condition soon I've completed an ace's poker: 15c, 32SII, 42S and 48GX... ==== >I've completed an ace's poker: 15c, 32SII, 42S and 48GX... > What, No HP41? Bill alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) ==== Bill Storey escribi.97 en el mensaje I've completed an ace's poker: 15c, 32SII, 42S and 48GX... > What, No HP41? > Bill Yes Bill, I perfectly know that since a collector or historical point of view, the 41 an not the 32 is a better option ( much more better ) Really I've never thought to buy the 32SII but two months ago I found it at 78 euros in a shop, and I couldn't resist. Perhaps I'm very wrong but I'm not interested in the 41: too much features are option, then buy functions and memory modules. Also the batteries...Just seeing the Compare features of the hp museum I prefer the 42. ==== Sorry if this was already discussed, I searched for it but didn't find an answer.. My question is if Debug4x HP48/49 SDK 2.0.0 posted in calc.org on it with Emu48 DLL Patch for HP49 SDK 1.32. thanxs, LEAP ==== > My question is if Debug4x HP48/49 SDK 2.0.0 posted in calc.org on > it with Emu48 DLL Patch for HP49 SDK 1.32. It already has the 1.32 EMU48.dll. In the future you can do: 1. right click the emu48.dll, select properties and then version to see the version -or- For updates, just copy the emu48.exe and emu48.dll updates and other files to the proper folder. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com ==== > My question is if Debug4x HP48/49 SDK 2.0.0 posted in calc.org on > it with Emu48 DLL Patch for HP49 SDK 1.32. > AFAIR debug4x I downloaded a few days ago from hpcalc.org has an Emu48 dll from late December, 2002 However, even if it's not the latest version, it's still usable, and updates may come as necessary. ==== Is Java compatible with Metakernel? I'm thinking of getting a GX and loading it to the gills with software 'cause I don't want a 49 Ollie. ==== > No: but the good thing is that you will not miss Java when using MK (IMHO) I miss the pretty-view for matrix in MK :-( ==== > I miss the pretty-view for matrix in MK :-( Yes, me too. And some little things more of the Java's pretty print. But this is the solution: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/apps/mk/agrob4mk.zip I hope this was as useful for you as it is for me. ==== As can be deduced from the documentation of both packages, they are both stack replacement programs (with some extras ;-) .... Get an HP48GX and use MK on a 128 kB card (slot 1). (If you have money to spare and you are interested in SysRPL programming, get a second 128 kB (for slot 1) card and load it with Jazz light and Java, or get a 256 kB or bigger card (for slot 2) and install Jazz full and use the JAZZ command. You have to take the MK card out of slot 1 then.) Caspar Oliver Cairncross schreef in bericht > Is Java compatible with Metakernel? I'm thinking of getting a GX and loading it to the gills with software > 'cause I don't want a 49 > Ollie. > ==== And yes, I know the MK can be used for SysRPL as well, actually not as well as Jazz... Caspar Caspar Lugtmeier & Eva Skotarczak schreef in As can be deduced from the documentation of both packages, they are both > stack replacement programs (with some extras ;-) .... > Get an HP48GX and use MK on a 128 kB card (slot 1). (If you have money to spare and you are interested in SysRPL programming, > get a second 128 kB (for slot 1) card and load it with Jazz light and Java, > or get a 256 kB or bigger card (for slot 2) and install Jazz full and use > the JAZZ command. You have to take the MK card out of slot 1 then.) Caspar > Oliver Cairncross schreef in bericht > Is Java compatible with Metakernel? I'm thinking of getting a GX and loading it to the gills with software > 'cause I don't want a 49 > I wanted to move 2 of my own programmes to the flash memory on port 2 (HP49G). It worked fine, but I saw that my already installed programmes (in port 0) disappeared from the lib menu! I can find them under 0: and then see their lib. number, but I can't execute them anymore! If I type the commands (or picks them from the CAT list) then I get an error with XLIB (not defined or something). I tried to warm-start my hp, but then the commands disappeared from the CAT menu! Is there anyway that I can correct this? Or do I need to remove the libraries and transfer them and install them again? Please help me! Anders ==== You must attached the library. Please, try again with ... 1) Put the library in the stack. 2) Execute the command ATTACH with: 1: ATTACH and ENTER Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK **************************************************************************** *** > Hey I wanted to move 2 of my own programmes to the flash memory on port 2 > (HP49G). It worked fine, but I saw that my already installed programmes > (in port 0) disappeared from the lib menu! I can find them under 0: and > then see their lib. number, but I can't execute them anymore! > If I type the commands (or picks them from the CAT list) then I get an > error with XLIB (not defined or something). I tried to warm-start my hp, but then the commands disappeared from the > CAT menu! Is there anyway that I can correct this? Or do I need to remove the > libraries and transfer them and install them again? Please help me! Anders ==== > You must attached the library. > Please, try again with ... > 1) Put the library in the stack. > 2) Execute the command ATTACH with: > 1: ATTACH and ENTER Still doesn't work! I better remove it and transfer it again. But does anybody have an idea why this can happen? I just copied one of my own programmes to the flash and then my libraries didn't work anymore! Can't you move your own programmes to the flash? Isn't that a safer place to keep them? Anders ==== Please, send to me or indicated the Library with you have a problem, and I'm see and explened to you the correct steps for run. Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK **************************************************************************** **** > You must attached the library. > Please, try again with ... > 1) Put the library in the stack. > 2) Execute the command ATTACH with: > 1: ATTACH and ENTER > Still doesn't work! I better remove it and transfer it again. But does > anybody have an idea why this can happen? I just copied one of my own > programmes to the flash and then my libraries didn't work anymore! Can't you move your own programmes to the flash? Isn't that a safer > place to keep them? Anders ==== I would like to know the electrical caracteristics of the 48's address/data bus. They must be ttl compatible, but, are they really ttl? Or are they ttl inputs and cmos outputs? I was hoping for some values for Vih and Vil tresholds for both input and output, ideally with a max-min values spec. Any help is greatly apreciated. Steve Sousa ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Steve Sousa p.92se v diskusn.92m pr.92spevku I would like to know the electrical caracteristics of the > 48's address/data bus. They must be ttl compatible, Who told you they must be TTL compatible? I think it is CMOS. That is TTL compatible enought. > but, are they really ttl? Or are they ttl inputs and cmos > outputs? I was hoping for some values for Vih and Vil tresholds > for both input and output, ideally with a max-min values spec. Any help is greatly apreciated. > Steve Sousa Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== Perhaps someone could help me with this : I decided to purchase a 49G calculator and am now wondering wether it would be possible to upload any of the 39G/40G e-lesson applets available from hpcalc.org. I've never installed any calculator software as of yet (even software designed for the 49G), so - generally I don't have much idea what I'm doing :) Either way, I'm assuming some kind of conversion would need to be done? Specifically I'm looking at the applets which HP released themselves. The .zip files off of hpcalc seem to contain some files with extension .000 and generallly one file with extension .CUR; Is there any way to install these so that they can function on my 49G? If so - please describe the process - would be much appreciated. eshylay ==== Help me! I have an HP-49g serial number ID00800349. I have two problems. MY displays getting kinda scratched after a year of usage, and much more critically MY KEYS ARE FADING!!!! The text on the 'ON' button is practically gone... '.' and '0' are almost gone as is 'Enter'. How can I fix this problem/ prevent this from getting worse? -JP ==== Like I said in one previous posting about the actual state of HP calculators, the 49G keyboard is less than ideal. When you are agreeing to spend the amount of money required to buy such a machine it is not 20 or so more dollars that would make such a difference if those additionnal dollars would let you have a good keyborad like the one on the HP41CX. HP perfected their calculators keyboards until the 41CX. Then, for the 49G, and probably newer models, they decided to dump all that and revert to cheap stuff found normally on remote control. Why did they have to do that. To remain competitive ? To me, remaining competitive is innovating, being better than the others, offering something special and yet, functionnal. I said it in my previous posting but I repeat it here. To me, the HP49G is a fantastic calculator, but for number crunching in engineering, it do not fill the bill. I bough it because it is an HP but I am a bit deceived at the overall finishing touches. Clunky keyboard and label legibility. Why not stick with a dark body and light contrasting colors for the labels. Look at an HP-67, you will see a small marvel of functionnality even if the faceplate is full of functions. In the past I ascociated HP with quality. I bough, in succession the following calculators : 45, 25, 41C, 41CV, 41CX, 48SX, 49G. For each calculator, I never questionned myself before buying. It was an HP so it was supposed to be of good quality. I was never deceived except by the 49G. Except for its power and the possibility of firmware upgrade, it deceived me for the aforementionned reasons. I seldom use it because it slows me down when performing calculations (I punch number real fast on calculators, I had to learn that skill because many exams were like calculation races when I was in engineering school). By the way, why are telephone keyboards using a different layout than caculators ? And, when I need to graph a function or do real heavy number crunching I use Excel on a PC or a MAC. By the way, the graphic calcultor built into some MAC systems is a real nice piece of sotware. The units functions is something I use sometime on the 49G. At least, HP maintained some ergonomic with the 49G by doing it as a tall calculator instead of a wide one. The 11C, 12C, 15C were nice solid machines but their layout is not well conformed for the human hand. So, I wait for the next RPN machine with a solid keyboard (like the 41CX) and, to the company that will do it: please, please, put back the ENTER key to its original place and make it a double wide key. It is the focal point of RPN. And please, please, use a color scheme that allows the labels to be read even in low light and avoid shiny material for the caculator case. Do not waste time reinventing something that is near perfect. Spend your time on perfecting the items that require it like, CAS, variables and file management. And please, please, keep in mind that a calculator keyboard is not the most efficient input device to enter a large amount of text like it is required when writing programs. Yet, with a PC interface it allows the typing being done on the computer and then downloaded to the machine. Then using the calculator keybord just for short fixes an debugging is an acceptable compromise. So please, please, provide an efficient interface. Will I buy such a machine? Yes. Even if it is not made by HP ? Yes. It is too bad, but now, to me, HP is no more THE calculator company. I tried TIs, Casio and many other and what distinguished HP from these was RPN and the overall functionnality and quality of the HPs. I hope someone peoples at HP and in other calculators companies are reading this news group. Maybe if they see enough asking they will see that tere is a market and they will sart producing what we need. In the meantime I will stick with what I have and try to find a 32SII which look not too bad for simple number crunching. I will keep it as a replacement when my 41 will die which will not happen in the near future, I think. Sorry for such a long post. Jean Lemire from Montreal, Canada ==== > MY displays getting kinda scratched after a year of usage, and much more > critically MY KEYS ARE FADING!!!! The text on the 'ON' button is > practically gone... '.' and '0' are almost gone as is 'Enter'. How can I > fix this problem/ prevent this from getting worse? It's a known problem. Check out my crummy keyboard: http://holyjoe.org/crummykeys.htm The only way to prevent further wear is to stop using it. So you'd better memorize the keyboard now before all the keys are blank. >:-O The only suggestions that I can think of (e.g. don't stab the keys but press them as lightly and slowly as you have patience for; only use the HP49G after washing your hands; don't let your fingernails touch the keys; etc.) are so obvious that I won't mention them. Here's an idea: scrub them with fine-grit sandpaper until they're all blank. That will totally prevent them from getting any worse. ;-) -Joe- ==== > It's a known problem. Check out my crummy keyboard: > http://holyjoe.org/crummykeys.htm Are you using the slide on cover, Joe? > Here's an idea: scrub them with fine-grit sandpaper until they're all blank. > That will totally prevent them from getting any worse. ;-) LOL :-) Your keyboard looks as if you really believed that before you came to your senses ;-) On a more serious note, HP should of course replace your '49 - it's not acceptable for any company to supply such lousy key legends, or such a tight fitting cover if that's the problem. I have never used the slide on cover if you wonder - my key legends on my '49 are mint (and I *have* used the calc a couple of times or three :-). ==== > Are you using the slide on cover, Joe? Yes, but that's not the problem, at least with my '49G. My slide-on cover does not contact the keys even while being slid on and off. The reason that the keys in the corners are the first to wear out is because the keyboard printing process does not lay down a uniform quality across the entire keyboard. Keys at the edges and especially at the corners get printed poorly. Add to this the fact that inner keys get pressed straight down by users whereas edge keys usually get pressed at an angle, and the mystery of their rapid demise is solved. -Joe- it. ==== Are you using the slide on cover, Joe? > > Yes, but that's not the problem, at least with my '49G. My slide-on cover > does not contact the keys even while being slid on and off. The reason that > the keys in the corners are the first to wear out is because the keyboard > printing process does not lay down a uniform quality across the entire > keyboard. Keys at the edges and especially at the corners get printed > poorly. Add to this the fact that inner keys get pressed straight down by > users whereas edge keys usually get pressed at an angle, and the mystery of > their rapid demise is solved. That makes perfectly sence to me, as an explanation for the question how comes that the keys at the corners are the first to fade off?. But one thing I still am afraid of: Is the non-uniform quality of the printing process at least so good for the more central keys, that they won't fade? Or will they also fade but after a longer time than the keys at the corners? Should I try some protection method to prevent further loss of key labels? -Joe- > it. Noooo! Who am I going to have discussions with, about the *exact* time of total fade, then? ;-) Anyway, the old casio that I have for years, also had rubber keys. But still they are intact. I guess that rubber keys dont automatically imply ware off. The old casio supports your conclusions, Joe, it must have to do with the printing process too. ==== > But one thing I still am afraid of: Is the non-uniform quality > of the printing process at least so good for the more central > keys, that they won't fade? Or will they also fade but after > a longer time than the keys at the corners? Should I try some > protection method to prevent further loss of key labels? All my inner keys look like new *except* the NXT key, which is starting to fade, perhaps because it gets constant use *and* because it's at the upper-left corner of a relatively large expanse of empty real estate, thus allowing me to rest my thumb there and press the NXT key by rocking my thumb and *perhaps* causing the NXT key to get slightly more angular pressure than the other keys. So my proposed solution is that the next calculator with crummy rubber keys should have two entire columns and rows of blank keys along all four edges, and no empty keyboard real estate. The blank ones can be left for programming by the user, and they'd never wear out (being already blank), and they'd protect the inner keys from crummy printing *and* from non-linear user contact. Or they could make a *good* keyboard for a change. -Joe- ==== > Here's an idea: scrub them with fine-grit sandpaper until they're all blank. > That will totally prevent them from getting any worse. ;-) LOL! In reality HP wanted to give us the possibility to easily re-label the keys according to our key assignments. So instead of using the awful overlays we can just scrub all key labels and write on them the functions that they perform. ;-) ==== My ENTER and ON keys are the most erased of all too, but I haven't use them much more than the others. Then I stop using the rigid cover, replacing it with the 48gx soft cover. It stop the fading (or at least slows it a lot). Less than 1 mm of height in the cover could have prevent this problem. Saludos Jorge M. Valenzani > Help me! I have an HP-49g serial number ID00800349. I have two problems. > MY displays getting kinda scratched after a year of usage, and much more > critically MY KEYS ARE FADING!!!! The text on the 'ON' button is > practically gone... '.' and '0' are almost gone as is 'Enter'. How can I > fix this problem/ prevent this from getting worse? -JP ==== 1.- HI. How can do this? I have several functions and I wanna ADD them horizontally: f1(x)= 3x+2; f2(x)= 15x-10; f3(x)=x^2-15 y x1 x2 x3 x1+x2+x3 --------------------------------- 0 -0.67 0.67 3.87 3.87 0,8 -0.40 0.72 3.97 4.29 1.0 -0.33 0.73 4.00 4.40 1.5 -0.17 0.76 4.06 4.69 2.0 0.00 0.80 4.12 4.92 Y | . , % * | . , % * | . , % * | . , % * | . , % * | ., % * | ,. % * |, . % * ----------------------------------------------------------- X Where (*) = (.) + (,) + (%) (HORIZONTALLY) It is a tipical problem to calculate the flow of hydraulic pumps mounted in parallel form. 2.- Any body has information about the commands MKISOM and ISOM? I think it can flip and rotate a function and change Y by X. It's posible? 3.- Are there any way to do a graphic from lists or matriz? {[1 2][145 300][1599 2000][-58 20]} I want to represent this couple of points. Are there any way to edit the Y column in TABLE? What I wanna say step by step is this. 1.bc- Press LS+F4 at EQ: enter a function Y=x^2+25 2.bc- then press LS+F6 and you’ll see a table. 3.bc.- If you edit the X column the hp49 calculates the Y value. My question: Are there any way to edit the Y column to calculate the X value of some function for the same value of Y???? 4.- What's the meaning of SOFT-MENU and the difference between this one, TMENU and MENU? I'm sorry but I write and speak english very badly.... THANKS ==== > 1.- HI. How can do this? I have several functions and I wanna ADD them horizontally: f1(x)= 3x+2; f2(x)= 15x-10; f3(x)=x^2-15 y x1 x2 x3 x1+x2+x3 > --------------------------------- > 0 -0.67 0.67 3.87 3.87 > 0,8 -0.40 0.72 3.97 4.29 > 1.0 -0.33 0.73 4.00 4.40 > 1.5 -0.17 0.76 4.06 4.69 > 2.0 0.00 0.80 4.12 4.92 Y | . , % * > | . , % * > | . , % * > | . , % * > | . , % * > | ., % * > | ,. % * > |, . % * > ----------------------------------------------------------- X Where (*) = (.) + (,) + (%) (HORIZONTALLY) It is a tipical problem to calculate the flow of hydraulic pumps > mounted in parallel form. One possibility would be to simply create lists with corresponding x1,x2,x3 and y values, add the x values and plot the points. Example for your f1(x). Enter Y=3.*X+2. Enter Y Enter the list of Y values {0. .8 1.0 1.5 2.0} Press [=] to vreate the list of equations {Y=0. Y=.8 .... Y=2.0} Press [SUBST] to create the list of equations {0.=3.*X+2 .8=3.*X+2. ... 2.0=3.*X+2. } Enter X Press the menu key [ZEROS] (second page of menu S.SLV} to get the list of X values {.666666666667 ... 0. } Repeat the same for the other two functions f2 and f3. Notice that ZEROS for f3 will give you a list containing lists with two solutions. When this list is on stack level 1 you must filter out the negative solutions, so enter 1, then enter the program << << MAX >> STREAM >> and press DOSUBS. This will return the list {3.87... ... 4.12...}. Now you have three lists on the stack, each of which contains 5 numbers. Press [ADD] twice to add the numbers in the lists pairwise. Then re-enter the list of y-values {0. .8 1.0 1.5 2.0}. Press R->C to convert the two lists of real numbers to one list with complex numbers which represent the coordinates of points that you want to plot. Enter 1 and then the program << PIXON >>. Press DOSUBS to plot all points. > 2.- Any body has information about the commands MKISOM and ISOM? I > think it can flip and rotate a function and change Y by X. It's > posible? Yes this is one of the things that you can do with ISOM and MKISOM. Suppose that you have Y=X^2 and you want to mirror the function on the axis y=x. Then you enter the vector [-1 1] which stand for the axis y=x (coeffs of variables of -x+y=0). Then you enter a -1 because mirroring is an indirect symmetry. (for rotations you enter 1). Press MKISOM to get the matrix [[ 0 1][1 0]]. You can use this matrix to do the symmetry operation. Enter the vector [X X^2] (vector of coordinates of y=x^2) and press *. You get [X^2 X] which is the vector of the new coordinates [X' Y'] after the mirroring. This particular symmetry operation could be done by simply solving for X, but for more complicated operations MKISOM and ISOM is a great help. > 3.- Are there any way to do a graphic from lists or matriz? {[1 2][145 300][1599 2000][-58 20]} I want to represent this couple of > points. If you really have a list of 2D-vectors, then you can enter 1, then the program << V-> R->C PIXON >> and then press DOSUBS. Are there any way to edit the Y column in TABLE? > What I wanna say step by step is this. 1.bc- Press LS+F4 at EQ: enter a function Y=x^2+25 > 2.bc- then press LS+F6 and you’ll see a table. > 3.bc.- If you edit the X column the hp49 calculates the Y value. > My question: Are there any way to edit the Y column to calculate the > X value of some function for the same value of Y???? Hmm, I don't think that the built-in table functinality is enough for doing that. Perhaps you should use matrices for which there are much more manipulation commands. > 4.- What's the meaning of SOFT-MENU and the difference between this > one, TMENU and MENU? Soft-menus are all the sets of functions that you can see at the low edge of the display and which correspond to the keys F1-F6. The HP49G has many many built-in menus. When you press for example the key [SYMB] you get the menu [ALG] [ARITH] ... [TRIG] over the keys [F1], [F2],... [F6] (if flag -117 is set). Pressing the corresponding key will perform the action indicated by the menu label over that key. The keys [F1] to [F6] perform actions in accordance to the current menu. Their functionality isn't hard coded and thus soft. The commands MENU and TMENU allow you to construct your own menus with functionality that you want to have. For example if you enter the list {ADD SQ CROSS} and press MENU, then you will get a menu that contains these there commands. The menu is saved in the variable CST, which is whenever you press [blue-shift] and then [MODE] you will get the custom menu that you defined. The structure of the list is very very flexible and I would advice you to read the command description of the command MENU and the description of the system reserved variable CST. The command TMENU will accept exactly the same lists as menus, like the command MENU does, but it will not save the menu list in CST. That means that TMENU is for temporary menus which you will not want to use repeatedly in future. For more information get http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/49g_ug.zip and http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/49g_aug.zip Hope that it helped, ==== Where can I find chemical engineering programs for HP 48G (e.g. flash calculations, dew point and bubble point calculations, etc.)? Nutcracker ==== > Where can I find chemical engineering programs for HP 48G (e.g. flash > calculations, dew point and bubble point calculations, etc.)? Did you check http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/science/chemistry/ ? -- Kenyon Ralph | www.theralphs.us | Semper Fi ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Does anyone know how to perform Floating points calculations on HP4x in assembly language AND without using any ROM routines? I need to implement it into NewOS. Thanx, Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== Does anyone know how to perform Floating points calculations on HP4x in > assembly language AND without using any ROM routines? So your simply need an entirely assembler implementation of some floating point calcultions? I would imagine that little sysRPL is mixed in with those commands as implemented in the rom, so Maybe those instructions could just be decompiled from ROM and then used. Perhaps with Nosy or some other tool the address of the asm instructions could be easily found. What instructions do you need? */-+%^ ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** John Smith p.92Íe v diskusn.92m pÀ.92sp.93vku > Does anyone know how to perform Floating points calculations on HP4x in > assembly language AND without using any ROM routines? So your simply need an entirely assembler implementation of some floating > point calcultions? I would imagine that little sysRPL is mixed in with > those commands as implemented in the rom, so Maybe those instructions could > just be decompiled from ROM and then used. Perhaps with Nosy or some > other tool the address of the asm instructions could be easily found. What instructions do you need? */-+%^ I think just + - * / and power & SQRT. Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== I can't seem to be able to graph vector functions on my HP 49G even though the manual says the calc can graph 3d parametric surfaces. For example, how can I graph something like r(t) = (a Serge ==== I can't seem to be able to graph vector functions on my HP 49G even > though the manual says the calc can graph 3d parametric surfaces. For > example, how can I graph something like r(t) = (a Serge You can plot parametric surfaces, but for parametric curves...well, you can fake them. For parametric surfaces you use the plot type Pr-Surface. If for example you have to plot the surface x(u,v)=u+v, y(u,v)=u-v, z(u,v)=sin(u+v), then you must enter the list {u+v u-v sin(u+v)} as equation, u as independend and v as dependend variable. Then you setup viewing and value ranges and plot the surface. Two of the parameters that you setup for the plot are the number of steps for u and the number of steps for v. With these parameters you can fake a 3D-parametric curve plot. In your example you want to plot r(t) = . Enter the list {cos(t) sin(t) t} as equation for a parametric surface plot. Enter u as independend and v as dependend variable. Now enter a number of steps for u for example 10, but enter only 1 step for v. You will be plotting a curve in space. I hope that this helped a little bit. ==== I can't seem to be able to graph vector functions on my HP 49G even > though the manual says the calc can graph 3d parametric surfaces. For > example, how can I graph something like r(t) = (a Serge You can plot parametric surfaces, but for parametric curves...well, > you can fake them. For parametric surfaces you use the plot type Pr-Surface. If for > example you have to plot the surface x(u,v)=u+v, y(u,v)=u-v, > z(u,v)=sin(u+v), then you must enter the list {u+v u-v sin(u+v)} as > equation, u as independend and v as dependend variable. Then you setup > viewing and value ranges and plot the surface. Two of the parameters that you setup for the plot are the number of > steps for u and the number of steps for v. With these parameters you > can fake a 3D-parametric curve plot. In your example you want to plot > r(t) = . Enter the list {cos(t) sin(t) t} as > equation for a parametric surface plot. Enter u as independend and v > as dependend variable. Now enter a number of steps for u for example > 10, but enter only 1 step for v. You will be plotting a curve in > space. I hope that this helped a little bit. > Serge ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are newbies? How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== > Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are newbies? Probably - I am the biggest n00b around here by far. It may change eventually, if I remember to practice...until then, I rely on help from others - Uncle Sams says that means YOU! ;-) > How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? *Many*! Most aren't posting here anymore though :-( ==== > How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? I did some ML basic work, moslty games. But I'm a real Sys-RPL n00b ! -- Julien Meyer - SunHP ( http://sunhp.jadeware.org/ ) ==== > How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? > I did some ML basic work, moslty games. But I'm a real Sys-RPL n00b ! I did some ML programming, but mostly not graphic oriented. The only thing I ever coded in Sys-RPL is Chat (in the Usinagaz package). Else I really prefer RPL : although it is slow, it is very safe. -- Samuel Thibault ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** > Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are newbies? Probably - I am the biggest n00b around here by far. It may change > eventually, if I remember to practice...until then, I rely on help from > others - Uncle Sams says that means YOU! ;-) How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? *Many*! Most aren't posting here anymore though :-( Why not? Where are they (posting)? > Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== > How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? *Many*! Most aren't posting here anymore though :-( Why not? Where are they (posting)? They aren't posting anywhere about HP calcs anymore. Why? To be honest, one of the reasons is because of the HP49. Probably the main reason though is they have moved on to bigger and better things. If you are lucky, you might find one of them in #hp48 on IRC. I havent been there is years, so I don't know. Andre Schrool, Wil Laughlin, and others used to frequent the channel, but I'd seriously doubt it anymore. However, you can still find the pearls of wisdom they left behind for future generations at hpcalc.org. Aaron ==== > They aren't posting anywhere about HP calcs anymore. Why? To be honest, > one > of the reasons is because of the HP49. Probably the main reason though > is > they have moved on to bigger and better things. If you are lucky, you > might find one of them in #hp48 on IRC. I havent been there is years, so > I > don't know. Andre Schrool, Wil Laughlin, and others used to frequent the > channel, but I'd seriously doubt it anymore. However, you can still find > the > pearls of wisdom they left behind for future generations at hpcalc.org. #hp48 on what IRC server? Dalnet, efnet? -- Al ==== i really am a beginner (in a world of HP calcs) and most probably stay like this for a long time since the documentation is so poor :/ Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are newbies? > How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? Demo -- fuf (fuf@mageo.cz) ==== Now, that's incisive... Toby > i really am a beginner (in a world of HP calcs) and most probably stay like this for a long time since the documentation is so poor :/ Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are newbies? > How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? Demo -- > fuf (fuf@mageo.cz) ==== Im with you there, but its not impossible, there are a few good tutorials out there and if you stick with it then you may just live to see the day when you write your own. M@ > i really am a beginner (in a world of HP calcs) and most probably stay like this for a long time since the documentation is so poor :/ Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are newbies? > How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? Demo -- > fuf (fuf@mageo.cz) ==== if this is your definition of a newbie, then I am a newbie as I don't program in ML or SYS-RPL... considering the fact that I work with HP Calcs since 1987, I think I am one of the elder newbies reading (and sometimes answering) this group...:-) Martin Demo schrieb: > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are newbies? > How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** > http://www.usenet.com > Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== Count me in! (as a newbie, I mean) Toby > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are newbies? > How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** > http://www.usenet.com > Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are newbies? > How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? Demo Well, I'm another newby using hp calcs since first 80's. Sure I do a very limited use of SysRPL, just where UserRPL doesn't work, then I open some books and also ask the help from some gurus like masters.I am ever learning from them... ==== > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are newbies? > How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL ? Demo Well, I'm another newby using hp calcs since first 80's. Sure I do a very limited use of SysRPL, just where UserRPL doesn't work, then I open some books and also ask the help from some gurus like masters.I am ever learning from them... X-Comment-To: Toby ==== >> Is it just my feeling or reality that >90% of this news group are >> newbies? How many people actually do some programming in ML or Sys-RPL >> ? Yes, you may be correct. I am good with ML and some sysRPL experience. ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** I don't know if anyone has ever experienced this problem: I start & configure kermit server on PC and now I want to see remote PC files form HP49, but it says on PC: Unknown server command. Isn't there a bug on HP49? Because this works fine from HP48. Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== I am probably sure this has already been covered but I thought I would mention how I have prevented screen scratches. I measured and cut a palm pilot screen protector and placed it over my screen. I have had it on for about a year and have had no problems. Visibility was noted only to be slighty hindered. Sean ==== I found some ordinary contact paper to be better; the kind you cover books with - its clearer. MC > I am probably sure this has already been covered but I thought I would > mention how I have prevented screen scratches. I measured and cut a > palm pilot screen protector and placed it over my screen. I have had > it on for about a year and have had no problems. Visibility was noted > only to be slighty hindered. Sean ==== Done the same thing and it works fine ... now if I could only stop the key labels from disappearing ... 8o) Cam ==== Finally, after a long time the 49g gave me the exact result for 9999 factorial. I've never seen the stack operate so slow after, though. -- Al ==== and the result is??? ;) > Finally, after a long time the 49g gave me the exact result for 9999 > factorial. I've never seen the stack operate so slow after, though. > ==== > Now I gotta find a way to approximate pi to like 1000 digits. How about Gjermund's Longfloat library?? Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, confuse them. -- Harry S. Truman ==== The problem is that it cant aproximate it into scientific notation. THe result is almost useless unless you want to spend all day counting the numbers or if only the last digit is important. ==== > The problem is that it cant aproximate it into scientific notation. > THe result is almost useless unless you want to spend all day counting > the numbers or if only the last digit is important. The last digit is zero. In fact, I'd estimate that around the last 1999 digits are zeros (since each element in the factorial ending in a 0 adds one zero, and each pair ending in 2 and 5 adds another zero, that makes 2 zeros per 10 elements). A bientot Paul -- Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth) What happens if you have lead in your pants as well as lead in your pencil? ==== > The problem is that it cant aproximate it into scientific notation. > THe result is almost useless unless you want to spend all day counting > the numbers or if only the last digit is important. The SIZE command works on integers, returning the number of digits. 9999 ! DUP SIZE thus shows that 9999! is pretty close to 2.84625968E35655 -Joe- ==== > The SIZE command works on integers, returning the number of digits. 9999 ! DUP SIZE thus shows that 9999! is pretty close to > 2.84625968E35655 -Joe- I had the same problem on the 40G - counting digits of big integers. Could it be that the SIZE command is different for the 40G? It seems only to work for matrices where it gives the dimension of the matrix. Axel X-Comment-To: Samuel BERNARD ==== Yeah, what is it? > and the result is??? ;) > Finally, after a long time the 49g gave me the exact result for 9999 >> factorial. >> I've never seen the stack operate so slow after, though. >> ==== I needed a cheap calc for the office, didn't need anything fancy, just basic scientific. I have a HP48+, HP32SII and HP49, and I'm used to the quality of the HP48 and HP32. Can't really say HP49 and 'quality' in the same sentence. Anyway, the I bought a HP6S, as it was very cheap, and I was curious. It will do the job, but I had to laugh when I turned it over. The back is held on by two small screws. The back is black pressed steel, and next to one of the screws were two weird black marks. Looking closely, the marks appear to be from a black marker pen, and cover up some scratches! This calc was in HP's impossible to open without cutting yourself plastic blister packs. I can only think that the robotic tool that did up the screws must have had some sort of fault, and ended up scratching a whole batch of case. So some poor person was probably told to cover up the scratches with a marker pen! I think it looks worse than if they had just left the scratches! Doesn't really worry me, just makes me laugh (and sigh) as to how far HP has fallen... ==== >Doesn't really worry me, just makes me laugh (and sigh) as to how far HP has >fallen... Actually, it's the consumer that has assumed the bottom feeder status. The finest made goods die on the shelf while the shit sells because that what the consumer has voted for with their purchasing decisions. -- Sincerely, Richard M. Smith (509) 754-1126 rmsmith@pobox.REMOVE.com ||// (@@) Pardon the intrusion... __ooO_()_Ooo_____________________________ _|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|___ ___|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_ _|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|___ ==== >>Doesn't really worry me, just makes me laugh (and sigh) as to how far HP has >>fallen... > Actually, it's the consumer that has assumed the bottom feeder status. The > finest made goods die on the shelf while the shit sells because that what > the consumer has voted for with their purchasing decisions. Yes. In it's defence though, I think it's a pretty feature packed calc for the price of ~ US$ 6. I compared it to all the others in that price range at the store (casios, sharps, TI's) and none had the binary functions on top of the basic scientific ones. Keys aren't good though, rubber and *hard* to press. The colour scheme of reflective dark blue makes it hard to see the labelling on the keys, especially the bin functions that are light blue and the sci functions in light yellow. Designer must have been colour blind. But for the price, I shouldn't complain too much....wished I'd paid a little more for the solar version, if only because it's colour scheme is better. ==== On the HP49 (MASD), you can insert links with 'YourFile , but that doesn't seem to work with the hptools, can I do it with an other instruction in ASSEMBLEM mode ? ==== it's possible to do a WAP browser for our hp 4xG ??? Acrux ==== > it's possible to do a WAP browser for our hp 4xG ??? We didn't implement wsp, but a WEB browser was already written by Yoann Desir : http://www.hp-sources.com/navigator/ Please also have a look at http://youpibouh.thefreecat.org/info/prog/4xinet.html for internet connectivity -- Samuel Thibault ==== We didn't implement wsp, but a WEB browser was already written by Yoann > Desir : http://www.hp-sources.com/navigator/ Please also have a look at > http://youpibouh.thefreecat.org/info/prog/4xinet.html > for internet connectivity > thanks a lot! Acrux ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** download: http://www.twincar.sk/download/NewOS_075.zip It has some cool features, like you may run ~100 processes :-) Feedback !!!!!! Demo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== I just downloaded it. Looks good so far. The unlimited threads is great! Does the DIR command work on your 49? on mine it just hangs. I'll get back to you after i've played with it for a while. Keep up the good work! I think this project has good potential. ==== Is there a way to do partial fraction decomposition with the HP-49G? ie. (x+2)/(X+1) ------> 1 + 1/(x+1) OR (x^3+1)/(x^2-1) ------> x + 1/(x-1) OR (2x^2 + 2x + 1)/(x^3 + x^2) -------> 1/x + 1/x^2 + 1/(x+1) ==== > Is there a way to do partial fraction decomposition with the HP-49G? ie. (x+2)/(X+1) ------> 1 + 1/(x+1) OR (x^3+1)/(x^2-1) ------> x + 1/(x-1) OR (2x^2 + 2x + 1)/(x^3 + x^2) -------> 1/x + 1/x^2 + 1/(x+1) Try PARTFRAC(...). It works on my HP40G (checked all your examples ;-) ) and should be the same for the 49G. Axel. ==== > Is there a way to do partial fraction decomposition with the HP-49G? ie. (x+2)/(X+1) ------> 1 + 1/(x+1) OR (x^3+1)/(x^2-1) ------> x + 1/(x-1) OR (2x^2 + 2x + 1)/(x^3 + x^2) -------> 1/x + 1/x^2 + 1/(x+1) Yes, the command PARTFRAC is what you want. It is on the third page of the menu ARITH/POLY, key [F3]. ==== > Yes, the command PARTFRAC is what you want. It is on the third page of > the menu ARITH/POLY, key [F3]. Faster access: the ALG menu. First page. -Joe- ==== Enter the fraction on the stack and run the command partfrac /Jon > Is there a way to do partial fraction decomposition with the HP-49G? ie. (x+2)/(X+1) ------> 1 + 1/(x+1) OR (x^3+1)/(x^2-1) ------> x + 1/(x-1) OR (2x^2 + 2x + 1)/(x^3 + x^2) -------> 1/x + 1/x^2 + 1/(x+1) ==== I was wondering if it would be practical to put together a site for units of code for the HP's? MC ==== > I was wondering if it would be practical to put together a site for units of > code for the HP's? > MC Is what you have in mind different than www.hpcalc.org ? Roger ==== --------------------------------------------------------------------- Is there such library? To work with sound, rates, dB, notes, harmonies, Spl, etc. Basically collecting all the math required in a sound recording studio. If not, then it would make a good project. Toby ==== Toby escribi.97 en el mensaje Is there such library? To work with sound, rates, dB, notes, harmonies, Spl, etc. Basically collecting all the math required in a sound recording studio. If not, then it would make a good project. Toby Look for it in www.hpcalc.org. If it is not there, then it doesn't exist ==== everybody ! My latest version of Navigator is available on http://www.hp-sources.com/navigator/english.html, with a nice graphic documentation found here : http://www.hp-sources.com/navigator/doc_0.05e.html I'm looking for testers in order to improve it... For those who don't know about Navigator, just know that it allows to see HTML files (web pages, I mean) on the HP49 (no HP48 version at this time), and it also allows to surf the internet using a connection powered by Usinagaz by Samuel Thibault. As I'm not an IP expert, is there a way how to surf without using DNS, but not offline. For example I want to connect to my comp just by using IP address. Thanx Demo Yoann D.8esir p.92se v diskusn.92m pr.92spevku > everybody ! My latest version of Navigator is available on > http://www.hp-sources.com/navigator/english.html, with a nice graphic > documentation > found here : > http://www.hp-sources.com/navigator/doc_0.05e.html I'm looking for testers in order to improve it... For those who don't know about Navigator, just know that it allows to > see HTML files (web pages, I mean) on the HP49 (no HP48 version at > this time), and it also allows to surf the internet using a connection > powered by Usinagaz by Samuel Thibault. ==== > As I'm not an IP expert, is there a way how to surf without using DNS, but > not offline. For example I want to connect to my comp just by using IP > address. What is the system of your computer ? If it is an unix with pppd, you can set option ms-dns to tell dns server. -- Samuel Thibault And the next time you consider complaining that running Lucid Emacs get the background colors right, you'll know who to thank. (By Matt Welsh) ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Today I found a HUGE bug in NewOS. Actually two. Both are HOME dir related: 1. I noticed that there is a difference between prologues on HP48 & HP48 so I think it is HP48 will not always work correctly 2. The directories were not correctly handled, but sometimes it worked. For me it was 90%. I do not know why did not I notice that before. (just so that you may say how stupid I'm: It handled only DIRs with 6 char name correctly :-) I'm working on bugfix. > I know that all the HP49 documentation (official pdfs) is available at > http://www.hpcalc.org/search.php?query=hp49+guides (Alex please note). However, I have searched hpcalc.org (fabulous site!), HP Calculator > Museum (hpmuseum.org - another great site), tried Google, etc, but I > cannot find the official HP HP48G Series User Guide or any softcopy > (even scanned) of the HP48G Advanced User Reference. (Please note, > HP48 series). Alas, I fear HP never made these HP48 manuals available in softcopy > form at all. > Rodney > ----------- There is much documentation at http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/. > Just browse the above page and you'll find what you need. > Where are the HP 49G guides available? Not at the link given in the manual > that comes with it. Although I haven't really looked either... ;) > Alex > Could anyone let me know whether official pdf copies of the HP48G > Series User Guide and HP48G Series Advanced User Reference from HP > are available for download anywhere? HP Support does not provide them > and Google searches have been unsuccessful. (Note: The HP49G guides > are available.) > I do have Eric Rechlin's HpCalc.org scanned pdf copy of the HP48G > Series User Guide (which is much appreciated). However, the HP48G > Advanced User Reference does not appear to be available for download > in either official or unofficial form anywhere. > Rodney ==== Yeah, but the 49G manuals suck. They tell you how to use the GUIs in algebraic mode and then they hint at some of the RPN functions. Even the Advanced User's Guide is nothing more than you're calculator can do more than we tell you; here are a few examples. It's not nearly as good as the HP 48G AUR. > I know that all the HP49 documentation (official pdfs) is available at > http://www.hpcalc.org/search.php?query=hp49+guides (Alex please note). However, I have searched hpcalc.org (fabulous site!), HP Calculator > Museum (hpmuseum.org - another great site), tried Google, etc, but I > cannot find the official HP HP48G Series User Guide or any softcopy > (even scanned) of the HP48G Advanced User Reference. (Please note, > HP48 series). Well, with the exception of the CAS commands, the commands of the > machines are identical, aren't they? A big part of the commands of the > HP49G can be used on the HP48 series, and so the manuals of the 49 are > useful also for 48 users. Am I wrong here? > ==== > Yeah, but the 49G manuals suck. They tell you how to use the GUIs in > algebraic mode and then they hint at some of the RPN functions. Even > the Advanced User's Guide is nothing more than you're calculator can > do more than we tell you; here are a few examples. It's not nearly as > good as the HP 48G AUR. Oh yes, you are right in this. Actually the advanced manual of the HP49G is more a kind of reference, a catalog of commands. Useful for finding quickly what a particular command does, but not so much of a starting guide. ==== > first you ATTACH the libray with it's number [256] on the stack, > the you can go to it's menu by typing 256 MENU > guillen That doesn't seem to be the case with v1.19-6. I don't have the attach command in my startup var, and 256 menu works anyway. The lib also appears as Development lib in the APPS window. Bill ==== > That doesn't seem to be the case with v1.19-6. I don't have the > attach command in my startup var, and 256 menu works anyway. The lib > also appears as Development lib in the APPS window. That may be because of some library you have installed. E.g. OT49 does the attaching automatically in its $CONFIG. ==== > That doesn't seem to be the case with v1.19-6. I don't have the > attach command in my startup var, and 256 menu works anyway. The lib > also appears as Development lib in the APPS window. That may be because of some library you have installed. E.g. OT49 > does the attaching automatically in its $CONFIG. Related trivia: Holding down the B, C and D keys during a warmstart also attaches library 256. 256 MENU always works, in any HP 49G ROM version, if you execute the commands directly from the menu, not in program mode. This is true of any library, whether attached or not. -Joe- ==== > You can find information on www.hpcalc.org on each command in this library. Oomph... That ancient document needs updating. It's older than the following commands in library 256: CRC -- converts a string (of what?) to a checksum. MAKESTR -- rapidly generates a string of any desired length. n --> $ SERIAL -- returns the internal S/N of the calculator if the HP49G was not made in China. ASM -- calls the asm command in library 257; converts System RPL & Assembly Language source code (in string form) into a binary object. ER -- calls the er command in library 257; launches an error-handler useful if ASM errors out. ->S2 -- disassembles a binary object into source code, with Code objects converted to simple hex. To disassemble Code objects, use ASM->. XLIB~ -- toggles between an XLIB and two numbers (library ID, command #). Anybody know how to use CRC? Also, the explanation of BetaTesting in the original document was, of course, a joke. If you need to create a string, use MAKESTR. Any corrigenda or addenda on your agenda? Please post 'em! Thanx. -Joe- ==== I'm running emu48ce on an HP/Compaq iPaq 5455. Right now I'm using the HP49G rom that came with the program. I'd like to use the latest beta rom - how do I do that? Do I use the calculator version or the emulator ==== > My 100% User-RPL FONTX program does both of those tasks instantly > It appeared at HPCALC.ORG on 1999/11/25: > http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3328 I just studied your smart font-parameter changer. Whereas you reduce the task to string processing, I did it with hexastring processing. It seems that your approach is more smart. Translated into SysRPL, your program would not need lib 256 at all! Hence, I'll eliminite lib 256 from Fontman completely. The problem with UsrRPL is that the right error treatment is very costly. You did it sporadically only. For instance, running your fontx with empty stack tells us DUP Error instead of fontx Error. But this may be a minor point. the object size (I've always difficulties with elementary arithmetic). The internal font name may even be empty -:) ==== Local store has 38G on discount table for $16. Is there an easy method to use RPN on it? All the documentation I have read says only algebra mode. Or maybe I should just sell my HP11 (original package, enclosures and probably batteries) and buy a 49 and 48GX instead of messing around w/ the 38G. 8-) John ==== > Local store has 38G on discount table for $16. Is there an easy method to use RPN on it? All the documentation I have read says only algebra mode. > and the docs are telling the truth. > I'd go for the HP-48, of course;-) Nevertheless, the user interface of the 38G is nice, so it could be worth a try. ==== 1) How can I simplify LN(EXP(i)) to i Now a math question that i'm not sure, Can't I simplify Ln(Exp(i*x)) to > i*x, or this simplification can be done only in special cases? > ln(exp(i*x)) is different from x in general, for example try with > x=2*pi. > ln(exp(x))=x on the reals only OK - that ist true, but for Ln(Exp(i)) the answer should be i. > 2) Is there any way to edit a defined function, e.g. > DEF(F(X)=SIN(X)/X)? If I select the function in the VARS menu of the > CAS, switch to the edit mode and press OK (with or without editing) I > get an Invalid Syntax error. Do you get this: << -> X SIN(X)/X >> ? > That's User-RPL. You shouldn't get that :) Before pressing OK, you should > rewrite/edit it in algebraic form: e.g. SHIFT CLEAR SIN(X-1)/X [OK] > Now F contains SIN(X-1)/X. an Invalid User Function if you evaluate the function afterwards... > BTW, didn't you ask for a way to show the time and date permanently on the > HOME environment? I've tried to write a 38G aplet to do this (*), modifying > StartupProc, but the clock (in the display area DA1) is not updated every > second, only when a key is pressed. I've tried with FORTY SetSysFlag, CLKON > (48:0CED9), setting ClkOnNib ... nothing seems to work. Any ideas? No - and I am not yet so familiar with those details. But, Martin Lang probably did have the same problem programming his nice calendar for Library L1540... Axel ==== Is it possible to emulate 32kb of ram for HP48G? Demo ==== Demo schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Is it possible to emulate 32kb of ram for HP48G? > Don't know if that works, but you could use Emu48 with an SX ROM image. This way you'll have 32K main memory. ==== ...damit machen? I think I understand that. Toby > Robert schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Hallo NG! Ich habe auf meinem HP49G eine HP49 Demo Bibliothek gefunden. > F.9fr was ist die gut, bzw. was kann ich denn damit machen? Nichts, denn wie der Name schon sagt, ist es eine selbstablaufende DEMO. > Du kannst sie unbesorgt l.9aschen. PS: Ich bin noch Newbie und hab keine Ahnung, wie man auf Bibliotheken > zugreift / diese ausf.9fhrt. Dazu empfehle ich Dir dringend die Lekt.9fre des Handbuchs, > f.9fr tiefer greifende Infos gibt es www.hpcalc.org. Aber wie gesagt, lies erst mal die Doku.