B89 ==== The other day I went through the programs I've got in the LIB, now my calc doesn't want to display these kind of fractions anymore 1 - 2 It will always display .5, and sometimes even use the E-whatever after the number. I don't like it. Which flag did I set? or is it some program running. ==== Hi, your calc is in approximate mode. Just type 'CASCFG' and press Enter. Roman ==== CASCFG does a lot more than just set Exact mode, so I'd recommend avoiding it except when really needed. My favorite solution to the unwanted Approx mode prolem is to type XQ. This would convert your .5 into 1/2 *and* change the HP49G to Exact mode, all in one swell foop. The reverse operation, by the way, is XNUM. These only work if there's something on the stack. If you have a recent enough ROM version, you can easily toggle Exact/Approx mode by pressing the ENTER key while holding down the right-shift key; watch the annunciators in the top line and see = (Exact mode) or ~ (Approx mode). In any ROM version, you can also press MODE CAS and then check or uncheck Approx. You can programmatically turn on Exact mode by -105 CF, and turn on Approx mode by -105 SF. Hope this helps! -Joe- ==== I prefer having the Vectored ENTER flag on (as well as User flag) then having the following program at Home level in variable BetaENTER (Beta= the Greek letter Beta) You may add more flags to the list in case something else that the CAS keeps on changing bothers you. It is also advisable now to set the CAS in silent mode switch flag. my .03_euro PS: one may also use CASCFG while trying some examples like the many in Urroz's books...(not always advisable) Exact/Approx watch mode). ==== Depends on your model. On a HP 49G I would use AUGMENT ==== Windows95 - ME does exactly that (erases the boot sector when you install).. maybe people are just used to dealing with software that (deliberately or otherwise) mucks up your system. Aaron PS - And yes.. it DOES suck when Windows does that! That's why if you want to multi-boot with Windows 95/98/ME, it better be the first OS you install or your boot manager goes bye-bye. ==== The baby has arrived today: an old Casio fx 4000P that I've bought for 6? in ebay last week. Just nostalgia. It was one of the most desired calculators among my classmates while we were studing Chemistry in the middle of the 80's: one of the first affordable alphanumeric calculators, and one of the first pure algebraic, where you can write normal: sin 30, ln 2, etc. And best of all, 550 prg steps! I have been playing and programming it, now, comparing it with the 15C (1982). The Casio is quicker: calculating P100,50 takes more than 7 seconds in the hp but it's almost instantaneus in the casio. Its alphanumeric screen is beatiful. Its statistical capabilities are better ( I need a program for entering 1 var or 2 var with freq in the hp)... and nothing else The hp is solid and durable. The keyboard is much better (not as those casio very little keys). It's humble segment screen is big and easy readable. And the matrix operations, a blessing. BUT above all, RPN is much efficient than the algebraic system: is very boring pressing ANS all the time and most of prgs are 30-50% shorter in RPN. As Jean Lemire has posted, RPN is THE way. ==== Almost instantaneous on the TI-89 as well (less than 0.1 second). -- ==== Sean, I was very much like you for a long time in that I couldn't 'get' RPN. I just couldn't figure out how to think in RPN mode. I guess I've had my HP49G for two years (first RPN calc for me) and I still consider myself a newbie, but about 6 months ago, and after visiting this newsgroup almost daily, something suddenly clicked and I haven't gone back. I still think RPN is difficult to read but its very easy to calculate in RPN. I don't know about you, but I have a little voice in my head whenever I perform calculations, either with paper or with a calculator. When it finally clicked, it was because I realized that I 'think' in RPN mode. Haha. Anyway, some very useful keys on the HP49G while working in RPN are 'ENTER' which duplicates the last entry on the stack (DUP command), and the right arrow, which swaps the last two entries on the stack (SWAP command). There's one last thing; when all else fails and you need to enter something as you read it while in RPN mode, just put it within single quotes. Simple enough. Hope this helps, ==== We should now go back to number crunching and feed a 16x16 numerical matrix to both TI 89 & HP 49 and see which one is faster in inverting it. :-) PS: try 32z32, too! (It may not fit into a puny TI - hee, hee) Ti sucks in matrix inversion and big time, 2. ==== I'm sure, but I don't understand why started to talk about his famous TI-89... I was only comparing two old calculators of the 80's. Or better, comparing my feelings while playing with them. ==== Hmm, so I guess the HP49G took a step back in this. I'm assuming that when you say the hp you mean the HP49G. -- ==== :-) We can have a contest, but give me a little time. -- P.S.: Maybe this contest could be held at the HPTICC '03? ==== in I think my post is clear: I have been playing and programming it (casio fx 4000p), now, comparing it with the 15C (1982). I did not talk about the 49, which I don't own. For P100,50, TEVAL gives me a time of 0.1034s on my 48GX. ==== Argh! Sorry. . ==== I Don't know another calculator that works almost 20 years on the same batteries, obviously that it should be a function of the speed... Tal ==== I would buy a super-high-speed HP 15C (with 16x RAM) any day. I surely hope HP will re-introduce it the same way that the HP 12C was, but with no brakes on speed. I don't need the batteries to last for 20 years, not even 20 moths, 20 weeks sound better and I would settle for 20 days, if the speed is great !! ==== I'd like at least 1 year... But YES, PLEASE: hp 15cII. More memory, more speed, same colours, same shape. ==== Hey, no fair; *your* name is too long! ;-) The Random House Dictionary software found these additional one-letter-away's from Joe... Doe Foe Hoe Poe Roe Toe Woe Job Jog Jos Jot ... and from Horn: Born Corn Lorn Morn Norn Torn Worn Zorn Hern Hora Toe Corn, Foe Lorn, and Job Worn are nice combos. Do I have way too much time on my hands? ==== The secret deal with hardware vendors and MS prevents this. Instead they use talented people to do the opposite! bytes... ==== Wouldn't everyone who uses it be interested? I am! Why not post it? Or upload it to www.hpcalc.org? Dennis ==== Alain is trying to contact with the author for the uploading. This is the trick I received from Alain: 220000222200000002 with 220000222200000022 (2 is gazeous, 0 is solid). He sent to me the 49 version (that I don't need) and I used his trick for correcting my 48 version. If you don't have the tools for doing the work, I'll send you the final library. ==== I just purchased an HP49G, my 4th HP calculator about a week ago, and I love it. I do have the same problem I think quite a few people do by looking at some of the posts and that is programming the thing. There does not seem to be any real good step by step document that take a person from setting everything up to completing a program. I personally would like to develop everything on a PC (my personal preference) using an emulator etc. (i.e. a project/IDE environment) and then transfer the completed program to the calculator. Having done this type of development with embedded HW systems it would be much easier for me. I went and looked at the TI-89/200 and they have a really great program development suite that lets you develop your SW all on the PC. You start it up, write your code in C ,with their supplied dll's, and when you build your project it automatically brings up and loads the emulator ready to test. All of this is very well documented and extremely easy to use. So, my question is, since I cannot seem to find it anywhere, is there any similar development environment completely on a PC...with examples? Does anything like this even exist or is anyone working on such a project? It appears that HP had the same thing in mind once upon a time (C language interface IDE etc.) but dropped it...maybe because they don't know if they are staying in this market or not...it would be disappointing to see RPN disappear. Anyway, what I have found is just scattered bits and pieces of documents that state ...writing in User RPL I did this.... or ...writing in sysRPL is really great.... or lists of entry points and so on. A nice development environment, or a really good document telling someone how to set everything up, would be of great help. Also, does anyone know where I could find some software for digital control design, communications etc? I found one program (as a lib) for the HP48 but never could convert it to run on the 49. If anyone can point me in the right direction I would really appreciate it and thanks for your time. JF ==== Hi! John: Please see this Web page: http://ca-on.hpcalc.org Note: You can too see my programs inserted in this site by typing ... caporalini, in the window (search!). The HP-49G don't have a infrared port and the remot control program for the HP-48 not run. The communication protocol and serial cable is ... F1897-A You can purchase a interfase HP - IR. Then can convert for use in the HP-49G. You only needed a solid knowledge of entries and ML or SysRPL Language's. Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK **************************************************************************** *** ==== Hi I successfully upgrade my rom from 1.10 to 19.6. ==== Yes! ==== Well, my CASDIR is empty, so it really isn't needed! CASDIR was created as a new place for storing CAS variables, but if the CAS variables already exist in HOME (as will tend to occur when updating an older ROM), then they will not be recreated in CASDIR, and CASDIR will then remain empty. You can purge CASDIR, but then the OS will only create a new one, so it will always remain, empty or not. You may, however, move your CAS variables, such as { MODULO REALASSUME PERIOD EPS VX } from HOME to CASDIR, if you would prefer to have them more out of sight; if you want CASDIR to be out of sight as well, then use the ORDER command to rearrange variables, and perhaps use a variable hider as well, if you like. Out of sight, out of mind . ==== I moved my system variables to CASDIR in good ORDER X X ==== Suggestion: Use it as a garbage container. ==== Good to know, I was about to terminate there asses. On Tue, 3 Dec 2002 01:08:58 +0200, Veli-Pekka Nousiainen ==== will do On Tue, 03 Dec 2002 18:21:34 +0100, Wolfgang Rautenberg ==== ==== I get it! On Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:08:46 +0200, Veli-Pekka Nousiainen ==== Yeah, maybe the new GC will collect CAS garbage in there! But who will empty it, then? Is it on a weekly schedule? Do I have to take it to the curbside myself? Even in Winter? . ==== ==== In the process of doing Debug4x and Conn4x, I have updated the 4 basic HPTools (RPLCOMP etc). The BETA may be downloaded from: http://nereids.home.netcom.com/HPTools-3.0.7.zip Changes: RPLCOMP: aborted on any error in CODEM...ENDCODE blocks; fixed. RPLCOMP: now generates the proper values for HP49 MASD {{...}} sequences. Long file names with embeded spaces can be used on the command line AND most directives RPL INCLUDE as well!) See the ReadMe.txt for details and let me know if you find bugs or things that affect old files. ==== I can't find it on your link, strange. It's not on hpcalc.org nether. (GNU?) Hptools have never worked for me. I have tested on DOS 6.5, Win98, AND See a one year old post, by me: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=Pj%25B6.721 3%244N4.1568880%40newsc.telia.net I hope this loong link work. ( is it any way of linking messages on google to a short address?? ) Today I tested with compiling the sourcecode, BUT it didn't work. package name (.tgz), that didn't work nether. strange.. ==== I am sorry everyone. I have been asked to withdraw the updated HPTools for now. Although I really do not wish to do this, it is prudent to wait for a time before making the tools available. ==== Hmm... have been asked... by HP? ==== before making the tools available. Let me explain the situation.. I'm the one who asked to remove it. The main reason is that I already have a version 3.0.7 ready. I'm now merging the changes William made to release the new version under 3.0.8. Was no good to have 2 different versions with the same version number out-there ==== u are a odd number ==== Hi all! Even more strange things on the 49. (Strange thins is the new name of bugs ;-)) Complex, rigorous mode: Enter (-(-1+sqrt(13)/6))^1 and expand. Result:-(-1+sqrt(13)/6) , OK. Enter (-(-1+sqrt(13)/6))^n , enter { n 1 } , press [|]. The result is EXP(1*LN(-((-1+sqrt(13))/6))) which TEXPAND converts to -((-1+sqrt(13)/6). Also OK. Real, rigorous mode: Enter (-(-1+sqrt(13)/6))^1 and expand. Result:-(-1+sqrt(13))/6 , OK. *But* enter (-(-1+sqrt(13)/6))^n , enter { n 1 } , press [|]. The result now is is EXP(1*LN(-1+sqrt(13)))/EXP(1*LN(6)) which is wrong. TEXPAND converts that to (-1+sqrt(13))/6. That is your HP49G has just found that a=-a for any a!=0 . Fantastic! mode? Anyway, whatever it has to do with, it leads to other shitty results. Example: In real rigorous mode expand sum(n,0,+inf,(-(3*sqrt(13))/13)*(-((-1+sqrt(13))/6))^n+(3*sqrt(13)/13)*((1+s qrt(13))/6)^n). The calc returns after a looong time the wrong result, (13+4*sqrt(13))/13 (and changes the current VX to n). In complex rigorous mode expand the above infinite series again. Now the calc, again after a loooong time, returns 3, the correct result (and again changes VX to n, grrrrr!). Somebody should go write the Modeman for automatically managing the endless modes combinations of this machine. (Wolfgang? ;-)) Greetings, Nick. ==== X AND now I have to add 'X' STOVX to my BetaENTER (or perhaps { HOME CASPAR VX.BAK } RCL STOVX) I hate it when the 49 just keep on changing modes, variables, etc. all by it's own. The system is flawed, I write Santa to bring me a V200 ==== Caspar Lugtmeier (who is curious too) ==== I am thinking of ways to add some user RPL support to Debug4x and that requires a font with all the special HP characters. There is such a font on HPCalc.org (HP48ttf.zip) and it looks reasonable except the character sizes are all off. A 10 or 12 font display in the editor requires me to set the size of the hp48ttf to 22 or 24! I suspect there is a parameter (or two) in the file that could be changed to fix this but I don't know much about these ttf fonts (I do know there is a lot to them). Anyone have a clue? -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com ==== Is this a secret code? My guess: Bill Graves = Bill Gates, But death to the real one.. RKBA = A Re key (Bin Laden(Death?=D) A =..=AL-QAEDA! You must be a terrorist?? ==== Yes and its political. I would rather just let this pass because this is not a good forum for debate on political issues. thank you ==== John rightly points out that stupid people frequently use all kinds of things to do stupid acts. Hard to argue with that! This is not and never has been the right question to ask. The key question is: on the whole does private ownership of xxx (could be anything) do more good than harm. No doubt there are some who say that private ownership of anything is bad, but that is a bit extreme. There are abundant, scholarly works in criminology that demonstrate that private ownership of firearms overwhelmingly prevents more violent acts than the few harms and accidents that inevitably result in all human activity. One has only to read the work of ciminalists and not political texts to find these answers. Many would restrict weapons to governments but any reading of history would note that malicious governments kill far more people than all the crime since the beginning of time! PLEASE, John you have spoken and I have answered. Now could we keep this off of this technical newsgroup! Private communications would be ok with me. ==== CODE GOSBVL =PopASavptr AD1EX C=DAT1 A LA(5) =DOLIB ?C=A A GOYES LDBE4C GOVLNG =GPPushFLoop LDBE4C GOVLNG =GPPushTLoop ENDCODE it is TYPELIB? it is correct???? GaaK ==== Hi, you could shorten it a bit by: CODE GOSBVL =PopASavptr AD1EX A=DAT1 A LC(5) =DOLIB ** Note LC has a smaller opcode than LA ?C=A A GOYES LDBE4C LDBE4C GOVLNG =GPPushT/FLp ** This entry (#620B6 on HP-48) does both ENDCODE BTW: Do you use JAZZ or RPL48? Raymond ==== sorry, my hp is hp49G ==== GPPushT/FLp is an entry on the 49 (#35233h) so Raymonds program will work for you. -- ir. P.F.Geelhoed Delft University of Technology Laboratory for Aero & Hydrodynamics Leeghwaterstraat 21, 2628 CA Delft, The Netherlands +31-15-2786656 / +31-15-2782947 (fax) ==== texts of Pivo (mltut) and Eric (Introduction to Saturn Assembly Language for HP48). GaaK ==== yes. MS has trouble with xcale processors. http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-940329.html i wonder how many times (and how fast) they keep changing OSs. they already have a new one for the PC (called long horn or something like that)that works like linux! instead of fixing the old ones, they keep making new ones so that they get free of any guilt and create revenew. they have been circling around and now they are getting closer to linux. it wouldn't surprise me if later on they claim that they invented linux (under a different name). oh well ... ==== According to intel docs, The XScale should be twice faster (at double frequency) at executung ARM code than the SA1110, and could be even faster if the software is corectly optimised. Not the other way around. I wonder where the speed problems really comes from. the fact that the multiplier between the core and the bus jumped from 2 to 4? higher latency in case of cache mist? crappy new cache? or something more subtle? who (I've as XScale ==== In my experiance with working on the XScale CPU on a Sony Clie NX70V, methodology and with branch prediction. It has little or nothing at all to do with code being compiled for ARM V4 or V5 architecture. I've compiled Power48, my HP48/49 emulator, with both architectures, with no appreciable difference in speed. XScale's cache alogrithm are prone to heavy thrashing when memory data is not spatially close, whereas other ARM implementations seem to handle this much better. For instance, a pixel dissolving algorithm than on a 200 MHz XScale, the only difference being that the TI has a much more intelligent cacheing algorithm. Branch prediction also suffers on the XScale, with the penalty for incorrect prediction can be as high as 4 to 5 clock cycles. Just FYI, -Robert Hildinger ==== There was a war between MS and Intel saying that it was the other fault's You could as to your friends of handhelds.org like Jamey Hicks that are working putting LInux/Familiar on iPAQ 3900 and 1900 ;-) J.Manrique http://www.asturlinux.org/~jsmanrique Users Club from Gij.97n http://www.etsiig.uniovi.es/asociaciones/clubusu #1077 HPCC Member http://www.hpcc.org ==== Imagine a HP handheld/calculator using TI OMAP processor :))) J.Manrique http://www.asturlinux.org/~jsmanrique ==== sharp is releasing the new zaurus models with xscale processors (400Mhz). in the mean time, if you want more info about this, you http://www.tomshardware.com/mobile/02q4/021107/index.html ==== I don't have to imagine! ;-) Power48 now runs on a Palm Tungsten T, and supports the HP48SX, HP48GX and HP49G. Emulation speed is roughly four times faster than the real thing on a Tungsten T using the OMAP (even better on a Sony NX60/70). It should be out in the public's hands by early December! Sorry, I couldn't resist the chance to toot my own horn! -Robert Hildinger, developer Power48 ==== Oh, the HP40G is allowed to crash on you now? ==== No, it is not okay for the calc to crash, but does he realize what he is integrating and whether or not the CAS has a bug is the question. -- Black holes are where God divided by zero. -Steven Wright ==== He COULD just be plain curious about what the calc might throw back at him for asking that interesting question - a crash is not acceptable in any way. The input is legal - what would you say if Mathematica erased the boot sector of your HDD if you asked it that question? ==== That would SUCK if Mathematica erased my boot sector! I think it is great that he is curious. All the great mathematicians were curious and that how we are here today. Aaron -- Black holes are where God divided by zero. -Steven Wright way. ==== La Prensa 1/12/2002 Arnoldistas suplicar.87n a Washington Eliseo N.9c.96ez, vocero arnoldista, anuncia que cabildear.87n ante el Departamento de Estado de EE.UU. por la suspensi.97n de la visa a Arnoldo Alem.87n Dijo que ma.96ana informar.87n cu.87ndo reactivar.87n sus protestas en el pa.92s William Briones Lo.87isiga william.briones@laprensa.com.ni El Partido Liberal Constitucionalista (PLC) responder.87 a la suspensi.97n de la visa estadounidense del diputado Arnoldo Alem.87n, enviando emisarios al Departamento de Estado de Estados Unidos, para investigar sobre esa medida, a la par que reiniciar.87n a lo interno del pa.92s los actos de protesta contra el desafuero de Alem.87n. Aunque la cancelaci.97n de visas era una medida esperada por los liberales, la amenaza que pende sobre otros 38 diputados arnoldistas mantiene en estado de alerta a .8estos, muchos de los cu.87les insisten que no votar.87n en la Asamblea Nacional por el desafuero de Alem.87n, acusado de supuestos malos manejos de los fondos p.9cblicos. La suspensi.97n de la visa a Alem.87n, se produce siete d.92as despu.8es que la embajadora estadounidense Barbara Moore advirti.97 a los legisladores, que no deb.92an proteger a corruptos. ãAquellos que protegen a los corruptos de ser castigados, no son amigos de Estados Unidos, y claro que no deben esperar ning.9cn favor o privilegio de parte del gobierno de Estados Unidosä, dijo el pasado 22 de noviembre. Eliseo N.9c.96ez, vocero del PLC, dijo a LA PRENSA que esa medida ãno tiene mayor impacto. Vamos a cabildear a los niveles m.87s altos en Washington para tener derecho de exponer nuestro punto de vista. Se ha hecho alg.9cn tipo de cabildeo, pero vamos a intensificarlo, porque tenemos derecho a ser o.92dos, independientemente de los resultadosä, coment.97. N.9c.96ez dijo que el PLC dar.87 a conocer ma.96ana lunes los detalles de las acciones ante esa medida que, asegur.97, ãfue solicitada por Enrique Bola.96os, y se trata de una ayuda que le est.87 brindando (Estados Unidos) a este gobierno. Lo est.87n tratando de oxigenar para ver si logra salir de la crisis que lo agobia y que podr.92a llevarlo a dimitirä, coment.97 Confirm.97 que Adolfo Calero y el ex canciller Francisco Aguirre estar.87n al frente del cabildeo en Estados Unidos durante los pr.97ximos d.92as. ãTambi.8en vamos a reactivar las protestas, que por razones estrat.8egicas se hab.92an suspendido, hasta marchar a Managua a mediados de diciembreä, adelant.97 N.9c.96ez. CASO POR CASO Michael Stevens, Consejero para Asuntos P.9cblicos de la Embajada estadounidense, dijo desconocer de una supuesta lista de diputados arnoldistas para cancelarles las visas. ãNo tengo ning.9cn conocimiento con respecto a otros casos en este momento. La visa del doctor Alem.87n fue revocada ayer (viernes)ä, dijo. ãLa aplicaci.97n de la Ley Patri.97tica sobre lavado de dinero, que resulta en revocaci.97n de visa se hace caso por caso, porque trabajamos en un gobierno bajo el dominio de las leyes y se trata de casos de individuos que tienen visa, no de listas ni de categor.92as de personas. Cuando se juntan pruebas suficientes de caso particular, se puede tomar una acci.97nä, explic.97. Stevens no quiso confirmar, aunque tampoco rechaz.97 la posibilidad de que en el futuro analicen caso por caso a los diputados arnoldistas. ãPrefiero no entrar en casos hipot.8eticos con respecto al futuroä, indic.97. ==== Theorem. For each congruence, x == a (mod m), put vector [a m] on the stack. While there are more than one such vector stacked up, the command will solve the last two on the stack, provided there is any solution. The resultant value of 'a' will be that closest to zero. To find only least nonnegative solutions, add the modulus to any such negative values. Example: [2 3] [4 7] ICHINREM results in [-10 21] Add the new modulus, 21 here, to get smallest non-negative solution, [11,21]. Checking: -10 == 11 == 2 (mod 3) and -10 == 11 == 4 (mod 7) Note that the CHINREM command is for polynomial congruences, not integer congruences. ==== Did you check your communication parameters ? Eric Vialle c28ef8f3.0211030825.b4d7da1@posting.google.com... ==== doesn't your laptop use USB? if so, you can use one of the adapters (RS232-USB)that sell for $30. you are going to have a lot of trouble talking through two modems. ==== Well, I think it is still healthier to eat healthy food, also in the sense you are refering to. Celery as a plant isn't dead from the beginning. Most food dies during the expensive processing to make it suitable for the food industry. Thomas ==== The auction at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1941100947&category=20335 contains text that looks suspiciously like a rip-off of Eric Rechlin's site. -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1941100947&category=20335 It's hard to tell what they are selling... Otherwise, I often use ebay and regularly copy another site to explain what I'm selling I guess if that's the only item the guy is selling, then it's fine. If he does it ona regular basis, then he's obviously making money on Eric's back ==== And everyone elses too. My programs are freeware - they are not to be sold under any circumstances. I guess this is the case with most programs on Erics site. If they are on the CD... ==== How would you characterize Joe's Goodies Disks ? ==== As freeware that may not be sold. ==== Then look at this: http://www.mikewinters.net/DATAFILE/calculators.txt programs can be recompiled to run on the 49's. That we all know is a load what That's usually not good behaviour, but what the heck. This guy also copied the entire contents from the site too - complete with directory structure and so on. That's not legal. He's one of the persons who wouldn't obey Erics demand for not bulk-downloading. In fact, he may be responsible for Erics problems with his site. having to find a sponsor and all. He currently has 8 identical CDs for sale - I wonder how many he has sold over time? All his items for sale are interesting: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1941342412 A picture of an HP12C handbook, but the text says he sells a CD with a .pdf of the handbook on it. I wonder how many he's selling of those (I can only find 4 of these CDs in the log). and what HP will say about it? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1941735720 He puts Casio good condition, he says. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20335&item=1940143443 Look at the pictures in that auction - do these calcs seem to be in good condition to you? He just bought a lot of these calcs: he bought 5 Casio calcs on September 18th, 5 again on October 17th, 10 on November 2nd and 5 on November 25th. All from the same seller. He off course sells them again along the way. He sold the above mentioned HP CDs on at least these dates: September 21 September 23 October 1 October 3 October 6 October 6 October 10 October 12 October 14 October 18 October 19 October 19 October 24 October 24 October 25 October 31 November 1 November 7 November 8 November 10 November 13 November 13 November 14 November 21 November 25 November 25 November 26 + 8 CDs not yet sold, at a price each between USD 1.75 and USD 20.50. This is 35 hpcalc.org CDs in two months! Still don't think this is stealing? Add to this an assortment of calculators, cables and manuals. You can only see a couple of months back on Ebay auctions, so his behaviour may have been the same for years. ==== Heello I think it is.. And it should be reported to Ebay... I guess Eric should do it, he will be in better position to do so... ==== http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/software-cdr-faq.html Just had a look.. The software must be on a CDR, it's forbidden to sell content on CDR on ebay ==== Some facts for the sake of the newbies: I never made one penny from the Goodies Disks, not even to recoup copying costs. EduCALC recouped their costs for copying, postage & handling, catalog space, warehouse space, etc etc, but they did not give me a piece of the action nor is there any reason to suspect that EduCALC ever made a penny from 'em either. They sold bazillions of those disks, with at least implicit blessings from the programmers (even the one who later told Eric Rechlin to remove his programs from the HPCALC.ORG CD) and explicit permission from HP. This guy on eBay, however, is selling ONE disc, at *auction* (!!!), pocketing whatever profit he makes, without the permission of anybody. Methinks that's uncool, uncouth, and unconscionable. If the bid never gets above $25, I won't worry about it, because I think that was Eric Rechlin's CD price before he temporarily suspended their sale be notified, IMHO. -Joe- ==== This guy on Ebay has sold 35 of these discs in the last two months - Ebay public records don't go any further back. I wonder how many he has sold the last two years? sale The auctions the last two months ended on very different prices - ranging from USD 1.75 to USD 20.50 I think. On average it was probably around USD 8.00 (my best guestimate) per CD. That's something like USD 1500-2000 a year. He's doing the same trick with a CD-R containing a .pdf-copy of the HP-12C user guide (4 CDs in two months). Do you think HP(ack) finds that cool? He's selling CD-R's, which is not allowed on Ebay, he's ripping off Erics website layout and selling 1500 programs without, I suspect, even one auther giving their blessings. He also passes on his bad carma by speaking with two tongues - The HP48 programs can be recompiled to run on the 49's he told me. That's mostly a lie, but will catch many a HP49G user on the wrong foot. ==== Ignore my previous posting. I take it all back and assert the opposite. Somebody please notify eBay, the IRS, and NORAD about this guy. -Joe- Ignore previous cookie -- fortune cookie message ==== I never had to pay to use Joe's goodies disk. And these goodies disk were pre-internet era. Without them I would have missed out on the HP48 ! ==== I am wondering if the share ware (or whatever it can be called) license statements included with many (but not all) the programs could be used to put the royal kibosh on the guy. Some authors state explicitly that it's free to share but still make provision for small copying fee; and I agree--this guy is crossing that gray fuzzy line. Joe, you summed it up nicely with the following notice that you included with your COPY program, from years ago. I think the gist of the matter can be extended to include hpcalc shareware/freeware. NOTICE!!! This is NOT intended for use by software pirates and other scurvy marauders. COPYing ROM cards that you do not own (or making copies of your immoral because it denies a worker his just wages. And it's stupid because it discourages good programmers from writing better programs. DON'T. But I have one question: How does one treat software that is no longer in development, no longer supported, and/or no longer held by its original creator? Greg ==== Free to all, unless otherwise stated by the author. ==== That is incorrect. No matter how old a piece of software is, the original author always keeps the copyright on his work... ==== I don't care how old one of my programs is, the original conditions should still apply, which in my case are usually free use for educational and non-profit use. I would imagine that most of the authors of material on Eric's site would feel the same. ==== It's free and CAN NOT be commercialized eg. sold! The above sentence must be the thing that Aaron meant. keeps ==== But what is important to keep in mind, even if the program is free or if the author didn't put any special disclosure or license ; the author will ALWAYS have a copyright on his creation which can't be abused later on... Except if explicitely mention that the author which to give the software in public domain and you can do whatever you want to do with it. In any case, all the items on ebay sold by the original person have been removed. The guy was very understanding... ==== I need a good electrotehnics program for my 48gx. Does anyone have a clue what to get and where ? -- Fico [Remove _NO SPAM_ to reply] ==== Try to go on http://www.hp-network.com/hardware I dont know very well what there's in this part, but check if you can find smthg :) NB: this web site is in french ! ==== Only the kernel of erable needs to be in port0, the rest of it can be in port2. I believe it only takes about 40KB in port 0 There is a version of erable using absolute addresses. it is smaller and slightly shorter than the other version of erable ==== Yes: Erable 3.024 and Erable 3.1xx Erable 3.2xx: shorter the whole prg, but the part you must instal in port 0 (if MK is in port 1) is ~85Kb This is the best, in spite of the memory problems. ==== One should always have a 128KB port 1 RAM merged when using Erable, Alg48, MK, Jazz, etc enhancements Otherwise you don't have much free RAM left. OR one could by a HP 49G with almost everything build-in (except MASD replacing Jazz and no source debugging). The main features (with enhancements) are already in the ROM taking absolutely no RAM space (except for running, ofcourse). One gets a 256KB merged RAM (most of it unused), 256KB free RAM in port 1, 1MB FlashRAM in port 2, but no free ports (who needs them?). I love this machine!! (Maybe JYA can bring in a source debug?) VP(N) 0 ==== And another message ... You can't merge the port1 and have the MK Jean=Yves ==== Autch! One more reason to think about buying the HP 49G. in X ==== Yes, you are right: memory is THE reason to think in the 49G. The memory problem is the worst when using MK+Erable3.2(fixed add) but I have solved this problem with any tricks... I can live with ~32Kb of free RAM. customized menus. ==== thanks to all for teh advice. the 49 is out of my price range for now, besides.... the 48GX does it everything and more for me. Heck, I'm still trying to figure it all out! LOL ==== I have a hp-49 but I need a caclulator without a CAS. I prefer rpn a lot, but since there are no rpn scientifics available and the hp-48 is so slow at graphing, I am going to buy a ti. I found a rpn program here http://patrick.wattle.id.au/cameron/software/ti83/rpn/ for the ti-83 Has anyone used that rpn program? Is it good? ==== How about PowerPlot for the HP48G? It's very fast, and comes optionally with table functionality: PPL: http://leviathan.orblivion.com/hp48/software/ppl137.zip PPL + Table: http://leviathan.orblivion.com/hp48/software/pplt138.zip Table only: http://leviathan.orblivion.com/hp48/software/Table196.zip ==== Please, how can i set a value for KEYTIME in SysRPL ? And how can i use PTR in SysRPL ? For example, i know that the address for KEYTIME is in hex 06C0AB. So, how can i apply this in my SysRPL Programs ? Jorge Luis ==== Hallo How do i enter (15 < 90) i the EQW, where < is the angle sign? Martin ==== I still can't make it work. when I enter (15, GreenRighShift6 90) I get (15*90) which is 1350 and not (15 arg 90). I can enter (15;16) in EQW but it is rectangular and not polar. ==== You can't enter number in polar forms in the EQW. EQW aim is to edit expression, and the HP49 doesn't support automatic polar form with symbolic expression. ==== Is it possible to make the EQW to understand lists (using internal list processing?) so that we could continue after multiple answers and also be able to use in the EQW those commands that require a list as argument... Just a thought... X polar ==== No. The EQW understand editing on one object, not multiple ones ==== ==== Then one should really use my STARTEQW http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4360 It has only two bugs and one feature A) the contents of EXPMUL2SUMEXP and SUMEXP2EXPMUL have been accidentally SWAPped B) You need an extra EVAL in Solving VY Good luck in fixing those (you will learn a lot) PS: The selection of one root out of several is working ok. There is even a picture of it. ==== Yours?! No *MINE* is better: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4360 It has only two bugs and one feature A) the contents of EXPMUL2SUMEXP and SUMEXP2EXPMUL have been accidentally SWAPped B) You need an extra EVAL in Solving VY Good luck in fixing those (you will learn a lot) PS: The selection of one root out of several is working ok. There is even a picture of it. ==== Nice add-on :-) But I don't have an HP49G. -- ==== X Bhuv! This was meant to anyone reading this post! Sorry about the confusion! I know that you don't have a HP 49G. (except the emulator in your PC :) ==== No *MINE* is Better :) http://www.calvin.edu/~sstear70/exw.html As to the origional Question about polar entry in the eqw I would recomend a small program: Of course the result of this is an algebraic involving i not a complex number. -Samuel ----- My yahoo box is a Spam Trap, should anyone actually wish to contact me please go to my site: www.calvin.edu/~sstear70/, download a .zip and ==== Can someone help me port this program stenopad 1.2 to the HP 49G. I don't have much programming experience and need this program...finals are coming up soon. I need an program to easily store notes and formulas in to my 49G. Here is the link to the poggie http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=127 TIA Jake ==== Can someone help me ? How can i modify System Font in Sys-RPL ? Or how can i put a FONT ID Jorge Luis ==== Sorry about my english where can i get a hp28 rom , i do not have the calculator . Gracias Gullec Argentina I've just received a brand new HP 32Sii, sealed in its blister packaging. Someone at this NG found and old stock, bought two of them and kindly sold me one for... about US$ 80.00. At first I though I had paid too much but when I saw the prices they are selling it at e-bay and Samson Cables (http://www.samsoncables.com/catalog/prodDetail.cfm?Prod_ID=226&Sku=32SIIBB) eighty dollars seemed a bargain indeed. I wonder how many of these calculators are still there... Once in while there appears someone who says I found one forgotten in a small store, covered with dust.... But, how many of these are expected to be around? How many of them were produced in the last year before they were discontinued? How many were sold? Well, back to the 32Sii, it is the best second calculator for those who own a 48 or 49G. To bad it has been discontinued... It lacks matrix operations and could have a few more bytes in memory, but I love it almost the same way I loved the old 15C I had in '84 (It belongs to my brother now and is still running nicely after all those years...) ==== Hmm, how do I go about trying to find me one of these? Or any non-financial HP pocket calc (OfficeMax has a couple financial models, but no scientifics)? The times I would love to have an RPN calc that fits in my pocket, rather than having to try to remember that no, the -Mike On Friday 29 November 2002 06:25 pm, Gerson W Barbosa (http://www.samsoncables.com/catalog/prodDetail.cfm?Prod_ID=226&Sku=32SIIBB) ==== you still can get the HP20s calc (algebraic) cheap. http://www.shopping.hp.com/cgi-bin/hpdirect/shopping/scripts/product_detail/ product_detail_view.jsp?product_code=20S%23ABA&aoid=7222&script_name=product. ==== I am someone at this NG. Actually I sold two NOS 32SII - I just got a Brown Bezel 32SII and decided to sell the two NOS I got. I can get some more 32SII - *but* I am in Brazil. If someone is willing to try doing this overseas deal: I«m your man. Renato ==== If you are looking for someone in Europe I might be your man. I can easily get you as many 32SII as you wish. ==== If you ask to the customer service, they can send you a printed version of the notice :) Eric Vialle 3de3ea73.4262488@news.freenet.de... ==== First post. I've been having problems with the 48GX while connected to a Sokia total station and running TDS program. What happens is while shooting a point, the 48GX bails out of the TDS program, back to the calculator functions. I've had this setup for almost two years, and haven't had a problem like this before. One thing I noticed on page A-4 in the users manual was the calculator environmental limits. We were working at around 30 degrees F and the operating temperature for the 48GX is 32-113 degrees F. My question is, has anyone else had this problem, and what fixes if any were tried and/or worked? Hal ==== generally speaking, you were lucky that your HP-48 worked for that long time outside it's operational limit;-) I think that fact speaks for the quality of the machine. But now for a solution: AFAIR TDS once made the 'Battle Case', an environmental case for the HP-48 series. Maybe they have a version with integrated heating, to keep the machine's temperature above the freezing point. Raymond ==== About operational limit.. In my firm we are using 48GX with TDS for about 5 years. Working temperatures from -10 to +40C. Never had a problem.. Zvonko Juras ==== I've got a problem that appears with the 49 but not with the 48. The problem is that when you press EVAL the 49 replaces all the unknowns in an eq by their stored values. Is there any way (any flag) of stopping the 49 from doing this? It's a big problem when using some programs that where initially made for the 48. miz. ==== The '48 does the same - the behaviour is identical between the two calcs in this respect. There are solutions, however: - Use different variable names. - Purge the variables. - Move the variables to a higher directory than HOME, and do your EVAL in HOME. ==== Hi folks, Any astronomy lovers out there that use goto scopes, I have questions: I have recently finished a program for my 49 that does such things as track Messier objects, stars etc, calculate positions and times, and display information useful for amateur star gazing. My next goal now that the program seems fairly accurate and useful is to attempt to use the 49 to send slew commands to my NexStar8 via the rs232 port on the hand paddle. However I am having trouble locating the protocol the ns8 uses for rs232 mode. Would the 49 be able to do it? Does anyone happen to know the protocol or where I could find it? Rgds, -Al A. ==== Hi! Sorry, I don't know the protocol either, but have you tried to contact Celestron? They should be willing to give it to software authors (at least the Meade LX200 protocol is available, and is used in many PC programs!) A very interesting program could be a satellite tracker that points the NexStar to any slow-enough moving satellite, like a Shuttle or the ISS! Good Luck! BTW, if anybody wants to write a LX200/NexStar addon for Urania, please contact me! Georg Zotti Urania website: http://www.cg.tuwien.ac.at/~gzotti/hp/urania/index.html ==== I just visited the HP shop site at hp.com and noticed that the only graphical calculators sold by HP are the 48GX and 39G. Is this old news? take a look at http://www.shopping.hp.com/cgi-bin/hpdirect/shopping/scripts/generic_store/g eneric_subcategory_view.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1196506591.1039029094@@@@&BV_En gineID=ccdjadcglmmjkjecfngcfkmdflldfgg.0&category=calculators&subcat1=graphi ng&cat_level=1 ==== Fascinating ... http://www.shopping.hp.com/cgi-bin/hpdirect/shopping/scripts/generic_store/g eneric_subcategory_view.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1196506591.1039029094@@@@&BV_En gineID=ccdjadcglmmjkjecfngcfkmdflldfgg.0&category=calculators&subcat1=graphi ==== IMHO really fascinating is that HP48 is still on sale. It seems, that either they still have warehouses full of HP48's and already got rid of all HP49 or HP48 is the only one that still sells. Jack ==== I guess I should not be too surprised, but . . . It seems a company with the resources of HP would at least check the ad copy they post on their web site to verify that it makes ANY sense. For example, both the new 9S and 9G work in a variety of modes, including degrees, radians, and gradients! I guess in gradient mode the calculator gradually fades away. More disturbing are the statements which cannot be attributed to a over-zealous spell-check program. They emphasize that these calculators allow four operations (add, subtract, multiply, and divide), which can be used to solve a wide variety of mathematical problems! Glad they told me that! Also, they incorporate not one, but TWO memory clear functions, whatever that means! Well, sorry if I am too harsh on the poor marketing people. Perhaps the old phrase applies - I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter! Don Davis ==== Oddly enough, there's a link to the hp49 page on the hp48 one. I think the main problem here may be that HP's web-page authors are incompetent, as usual. James ==== the worst e-business nightmare... when I tried to click on the worth a look button for the 9g split personality... the site says, Unable to display product detail page. Your request could not be completed Rgds, Carlos ==== First time users opinion, Mine came from Indonesia, HP 49g , its good, thatâs all, all good, what ever, hey it looks sharp and it works. Nice machine for a calc, screen good & clean not much rainbow; keyboard, that is what I was in dread of after reading all the post, is not bad hey if the keys are hard to push then eat your wheaties. The TI 89 which I have, is a very nice machine but, the HP is very user comfortable. I have had a couple of hpâs; last was a 28c, and a lot of the commands are the same, so it was easy to use the calculator when I changed to RPN, that is not to say that I like programming in it. This machine has a lot of potential, to bad HP gave up on it. And now to the subject of , If we want an upgrade to the cas or what ever, maybe it would be more likely to come about it we could entice the programmers with a monetary reward. I wonder if it would be feasible to arrange something over the net that would give the programmers of the cas money if they corrected bugs or upgraded the BIOS. I am sure that there is a lot of things that stand in the way, but it would be interesting if it could be done. P.S. Excuse my English its my first language so I never learned it properly. ==== :-D ==== So I guess only people who pay would be eligible to get the upgrade, correct? -- ==== May be, what choice do you have? Get an upgrade by paying or no upgrade at all. ==== Wouldn't that cause even more bugs in new versions? Shouldn't the programmers give us money instead, if we find bugs? :-) Jordi Hidalgo HPCC #1046 ==== you might be given a free uprade. ==== ... give the programmers of the cas money if they correct bugs ... No ambitious programmer would ever accept money for that. Don't you know why not? Ambition has been the driving force behind nearly all the best work of the world. In particular, practically all substantial contributions to human happiness have been made by ambitions men... So if a mathematician, or a chemist, or even physiologist, were to tell me that the driving force in his work had been the desire to benefit humanity, then I should not believe him (nor should I think the better of him if I did). His dominant motives have been those which I have stated, and in which, surely, there is nothing of which any decent man need be ashamed. G. H. Hardy, A mathematicians apology (First print 1940 and dozens of reprints till today) ==== NO ! I do not want you to leave. This is a newsgroup and not my property! I have no right to either ask that or even wish that. This is a public place for people to speak freely of their mind and this is great. Perhaps you did not notice the cheerful and playful state I was in during my reply (still am). It would be really boring to have exclusively HP freaks (like me) here and reproduce each others crap! Apart from that, it is really great to have the enemy as a 'guest' and torture and beat up on him whenever we feel like :-) It is always good to read your responses! Keep the spirit up. Besides, how come and you thought I was refering to you? I my self use a whole range of TI.. you kow what ;-) !Demeter! ==== If you have no experience and manuals of the ho48-series, the hp49 with his bad manuals will be mostly useless to you and you will need some good but expensive books to manage this calculator. For this reason I can only suggest the Ti. But I would recoment you the Ti89. Gru§ Alexandra ==== What I mean is this: When you say anything positive about a TI on a HP newsgroup surely someone will attack, just ignore. You may also try the other way around in a TI newsgroup and the result will be an insult - again! ==== The books are worth every penny! They were more clear than my math books back in university when I studied mechanical engineering. ==== As do I. I have several different doorstops from Ti, an 83, an 86 and an 89. All work flawlessly at helping me keep AN OPEN DOOR POLICY of fairness and objectivity when discussing which is best. Either a 48 or a 49! 8o) Ron ==== Exactly! But seriously now :-) TIs are not so bad (relatively speaking of course). My first programmable calc was a TI66 back in 1985 when I first went to the States to study EE. It was thin and cute and it had the language of the 58/59 but at a much lesser price. Of all the TI_pile_of_ I have I prefer the TI85 with its oblique and hazy screen, huge fonts, austere look and add to that the 28K available! It is really hard to compare calcs and be fair even when they offer similar or even the same functionality. Let alone different brands with different philosophies, such as the crapy TIshits on one hand and the wonderful HPs on the other. Oh dear, enough objectivity for today, I feel content that I did justice to the subject. !Demeter! ==== I don't have them, but when I translated (*) part of the chapter on matrices I could clearly see that it was a piece of crap. Maybe it was not a randomly picked piece, though. Jordi Hidalgo (*) http://groups.google.com/groups?&selm=3A15E7A6.CE609C62%40cc.usu.edu ==== But reading that book it was the first time that I understood vector calculus so easily.. PS: Was it a post card of my home town? You will receive it before the end of the year... ==== Where can i get a good emulator for HP 49 G on Windows XP ? And a Sys-RPL editor for Windows XP ? May you help me ? I think i«m spending a lot of time trying to program in Windows NotePad, transferring it to HP by HP PC Connectivity Kit and then compiling using MASD in HP 49 G. It«s good for small programs and when the programs are ok. But it«s not good for developing and testing. ==== There will be a new PC compiler environment any day now! www.hpcalc.org has a bunch of old tools and two emulators. Use search. ==== You can find emulators for the HP49G at www.hpcalc.org in the emulators section. I use the EMU48 with Windows XP just fine. Most programs designed for windows 2000 also work with XP (cross your fingers!) As for developing, I too use wordpad or other simple text editor. Make sure you save a text only with no formatting. I do all the development on the PC with the emulator, and let MASD assemble it in EMU48. The only transferring done is on completion. EMU48 even lets you save different versions of your calculator loaded with various programs and settings! Dennis ==== Why is it that the serial number embossed on the back of the calculator's case differs from the number given when the serial command is executed? i.e. back of case: CN13101332 SERIAL: CN13201841 ==== They are supposed to be different. If you ever got a one with identical serials for both the HW and SW, you've got a collectors item. ==== [ser# on case vs. SERIAL command] Apparently this long ago became a feature :) . ==== I could be used by the software vendor to send you a fully working code after a shareware has proven to be good. The personalized code prevents outsiders from stealing. X ==== --------------------------------------------------------------------- Is there an official web address (v.s. a mirrored site) where I can get the most recently updated pages? Toby boundary=----=_NextPart_000_0027_01C29729.FB9A9360 ==== --------------------------------------------------------------------- Check http://hpcalc.beachnet.org/ ... and yes, that's the latest update... Carlos ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Is there an official web address (v.s. a mirrored site) where I can get the most recently updated pages? Toby ==== Hi, The Handheld and Portable Computer Club's HPCC2002 Twentieth Anniversary Conference was held on 21-22 September at the Imperial College of Science and Technology in London, England with 62 attendees, including representatives of HP calculator teams, past and present. All fourteen presentations covering 13 hours were videotaped, and are now available on VHS in both NTSC (U.S.) and PAL (U.K.) formats. For additional information, check http://www.magpage.com/~jakes/video.htm on the web. The CD-ROM disk containing twenty years of HPCC's Datafile newsletters (128 issues), which was distributed to HPCC2002 conference attendees, is also available - check http://www.magpage.com/~jakes/ppccdrom.htm on the web. Jake Schwartz ==== A few days ago I tested the TABVAL command with the IFTE involving the variable x and it worked out OK. The table utility, however,failed to produce the correct result! A bug :-( !Demeter! ==== I will have a look into this today and will keep you posted.. ==== I've identified the bug, may take a while to fix, the problem is deep in the CAS ==== Glad to hear that you are on the case. I will patiently await your fix. Tim the ==== Transistors? :-) That sounds like an N-type IC protector. An N-type IC Protector is a slow blow multifuse. There is a picture of one here: http://freespace.virgin.net/matt.waite/resource/handy/icprotector.htm If it is such a component, you *can* replace it with a piece of wire - as long as the IC it was protecting doesn't get hit by an electrical fault, in which case you probably needed the fuse ;-) An ICP-N25 functions like a very low resistance in the circuit, until it blows. You can get high speed types too - usually denoted F-types. If a wire doesn't seem to function like the N25, something else is wrong with the electronics. The common cause for power electronics to go bad, are overvoltage and/or backwards polarity. Have you used an unknown AC-adapter to power the cassette recorder? Some unbalanced adapters have a very high low-load voltage. Have you used batteries with a higher voltage spec than specified, or accidentally inserted them with reverse polarity? If any of this may be true, let your Honduran repair guys look for these things: - If not an IC Protector, then maybe an internal fuse blew. - A protection diode may have sacrificed itself. These are usually reverse biased across the input and is supposed to short out the adapter if the polarity is reversed. However, it may have failed shorted particularly if you used a high current adapter. - Some other, usually more expensive, part has given up hope. To design a protected power circuit, that'll survive almost anything, some of these steps are taken: A series diode will protect against reverse polarity. Alternatively, a large parallel diode with upstream current limiting resistor or PTC thermistor, and fuses, fusable resistors, or IC protectors would cut off current before the parallel diode or circuit board traces have time to vaporize. A crowbar circuit (zener diode to trigger an SCR*) could be used to protect against reasonable overvoltage. * Silicon Controlled Rectifier. It should be obvious if any of the above is a-miss. I shoud.warn you though - if you let the black smoke escape from a Panasonic cassette deck, it won't function properly anymore ;-) ==== Yes, things electronic don't seem to work after you have let the magic smoke out. Bill alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) ==== Nick Karagiaouroglou :: I am not going to submit executable, because I think of it more as the programming example than utility. It will hopefully appear there today under the name IDClock and sections Docs/Programming and Utils/Time. Best wishes, Robert Tiismus. ==== browser every two minutes, to see if hpcalc is updated. (Without falling in light sleep between the clicks ;-)) Greetings and thanks again, Nick. ==== Nick Karagiaouroglou :: Sorry. I did not expect the HPCalc.org to be so slow. The code can be fetched now also from: http://www.physic.ut.ee/~robert/english/hpsoft/IDClock.zip Robert Tiismus. ==== Already downloading. Greetings, Nick. ==== X THAT'S why there has been trouble with the www.hpcalc.org bandwidth Nick has been hogging it all the time !!! Please Nick! You don't have to keep on clicking. PS: I fall into light sleep every now and then... ==== Oops, I talked too much and now the got me! Am I going to be put in coma mode for that? ;-) Greetings, Nick. ==== I first ordered a hp49G calc from Samson Cable and it did not work so HP sent me another one and I just got it. It works but I think its a refurbished one. The serial is ID94703895. I paid for a new on so I think I deserve a new one. What do you think I should do? ==== My 49 was faulty and I got an ID93xxx serial number one as a replacement. It had the hardware bug (serial port buffer), the screen was rainbowy and dusty and the keyboard sucked. I complained to the store I bought it from until they swapped it for a chinese one. I don;t regret it! The chinese ones are a *lot* better (IMHO) Chances are your calc is unused; it;s just old. Yours shouldn't have the serial port problem. If the keyboard is OK and the screen is nice, I'd stick with it. Otherwise, bitch to the HP service dept until they agree to swap it. Those things cost alot of money, so make sure you are happy with it. hope this helps, Al www..alborowski.tk ==== When I bought the calc from Samson Cables I could got either the newest version for $169 or an OEM HP service replacement unit for $119. So I got the newest version and now ive ended up with an older one. $50 is a big difference. I am a university student and this is a lot of money to me. I either want the newest version or my $50 back. ==== HP doesn't refurbished calculators... I think you should escalate your issue with Samson cable, after all it's where you purchased your calc.. You should have gone to them in the first place instead of going the *HP WAY* (no pun intended) JEan-Yves ==== The HP49G that I won in September -generously donated by HP- is clearly a refurbished unit: ID937, old box, AUG, PC adapter, ROM 1.18 Anyway I'm happy with it, because my previous '49G is a late Indonesian with improved keyboard (ID015), and being a collector I wanted one with the infamous painful keyboard. By the way, any news on the HP9G/S? Or should I say hp9g/s? Does anyone know of a site where they can already be ordered? Jordi Hidalgo HPCC #1046 ==== Hi, I think you can order them on the Citizen site:-))) Raymond ==== You seem to have a misunderstanding of what a refurbished unit is... A refurbished unit is a unit that has been sent back by a customer because of a problem (any kind). It has then been checked, repaired (if required) and put back in a as-new condition and re-sold. HP does NOT refurbish calculators... They don't repair them either they exchange them. You may have got an old HP49 (in the sense that it's been manufactured a long time ago), but it will still be a *new* HP49 as you would have been the first to open it ==== Hi Jordi, Take a look at: hp.com/calculators hp9g $ 49,99 hp9s $11,99 ==== Hi all, answer to my problem(try to recover memory-screen without reaction). some good tip. MY HP49G still alive :-) ==== ==== Dimitri is seemingly so happy on that his 49 returned to life that he has no time to read the NG at present. Therefore, and since some other people have asked for Dear Dimitri, Do not be desperate! It will work, be patient :-) I suppose you did everything advised to you by JYA. I had the same problem some time ago. It is unfortunately not correct what JYA says that no bad SysRPL can damage the ROM, in particular, if you still use a ROM older than 19-6. If everything runs wrong, keep the paperclip in the hole until the screen is black and nothing is running anymore. You then can set in any case the DOWNLOAD menu. Please manipulate delicately with pressing ON and at the same time ENTER and +. Clearly, you must have already prepared the PC and clicked on ROM 19-6 in order to start the downloading process. Read JYA's description once again. The best will be you have it on a toggling PC-screen or an outprint in front of you. Do everything only with fresh batteries! advised and didn't loose any user data in port 2 (which is seemingly never the case). Clearly, the rest is lost. Hallo Herr Professor Rautenberg, Ich habe alles gemacht wie Sie es mir beschrieben haben. Ich habe das OS neu installiert und alles funktioniert wieder. Ich weiss wirklich nicht wie ich mich bei Ihnen bedanken kann. Ich bin so erleichtert. Es war sehr nett von Ihnen mir zu helfen. Ich bin wirklich froh :-). Danke vielmals. Sie haben mir schon einmal(vor c.a einem Jahr wegen emacs fuer hp49) geholfen. Vielen Dank noch mal. - Dimitri PS. I'm unable to prove that the ROM flash in rare cases can be it is caused by BZDir than it is not the one from OT49 :-) ==== X X Yes, but you didn't translate the answer so I try my 2nd best (in a hurry - as usual :) I have done everything as You it to me described have. I have the OS in new installed and evrything works again. I don't really know how to to thank you I can. I am so reliefed. It was quite nice for You to me help. The best thing is that I did not loose any data (in port 2 naturally). helped.?????? Many thanks once again - Dimitry. Br.9fder-Peter ==== I couldn't have access to .92nternet on week-end. Here ist the solution I use to get my hp49 work. I juste reinstall the rom(It was on the answer I get from Wolfang Rautenberg): Here the original version and than a short translation of the answer from W.R: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Lieber Dimitri! Nicht verzweifeln! Es geht, nur Geduld :-) Ich nehme an Sie haben alles versucht was JYA Ihnen geraten hat. Ich hatte das uebrigens auch schon mal. Es ist falsch was JYA sagt, dass kein SysRPL program das ROM beschaedigen kann, vor allem dann, wenn Sie noch ein ROM 18 benutzen. Wenn alles schief geht, halten sie die Bueroklammer im Loch bis die Screen schwarz ist und auch keine Sanduhr mehr da ist. Sie kommen dann auf jeden Fall ins DOWNLOAD menu, ein bischen geschickt maipulieren mit ON und gleichzeitigem Druecken von ENTER und +. Vorher muessen sie ROM 19-6 schon auf dem PC vorbereitet und angeklickt haben, damit der Download-process beginnen kann. Lesen Sie nochmals die Bescheibung. Am besten Sie haben sie auf einem toggelnden Bildschirm oder gedruckt neben sich liegen. Arbeiten Sie nur mit frischen Batterien. Gruss W.R. ----------Translation ------------------------ Dear Dimitri! Be patient. I suppose you already try all JYA tell you. I got one time the same problem. It's not really correct when JYA says that a sysrpl programm can not damage the rom(above all when you use a rom under 1.8). If nothing is working, reset your calc on the back, use [ENTER] [+] key combination to get the download menu and reinstall the rom 19-6....Use new battery. Bye. W.R. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I try it and it's working :-) Excuse my bad english(I prefer write in french). ==== Can I calculate lagrange interpolations in HP 48G+ or I need a program to calculate it? If anyone known how to do it, please tell me! Or in case I need a program, to do it, please give me an URL where i can download it, or send it to me. ==== Buy a HP 49G, the Lagrange polynomial interpolation is build-in ==== You need a program. Check www.hpcalc.org for every program (past, present, or future; possible or impossible; but always free of cost) related to the HP48. Meanwhile, here's a teeny-tiny super-duper program that takes a matrix of [ x f(x) ] pairs and returns an array of a perfect-fit polynomial. If that's not what you want, ignore it. ;-) Example: What polynomial passes *exactly* through (-1,12), (0,5), and (1,4)? Input: [[ -1 12 ] 0 5 1 4 ] Output: [ 3 -4 5 ] which means f(x)=3x^2 -4x +5 'PFIT' by Joe Horn, 1993 << 1 s FOR j a { j 2 } GET FOR j a { j 1 } GET s 1 - 0 FOR k DUP k ^ SWAP -1 STEP DROP OVER / DUP 5 ROLLD RSD SWAP / + HP48G+ BYTES: #AF57h 197.0 This program is unnecessary for the HP49G, which has a LAGRANGE command built in, which does the same thing as 'PFIT', although the input matrix must be transposed first. Hope this helps! -Joe- ==== Hi, Take a look at http://hpcalc.beachnet.org/hp49/math/numeric/intpol21.zip this file includess a version for hp48, which, among others include lagrange interpolation. Gjermund Skailand ==== finding logs to arbitrary bases? Definitions: ULP = Unit in the Last Place. Example: 1.33333333334 is one ULP more than 1.333333333333 in a 12-digit calculator. LOG(Y,X) = log of Y, base X. To find LOG(Y,X), six methods have been suggested here. All are *mathematically* equal, but they give UNEQUAL RESULTS when implemented in RPL due to error accumulation. All assume Y on level 2 and X on level 1. The Six Methods are: (1) LN SWAP LN SWAP / (2) LOG SWAP LOG SWAP / (3) LN XROOT LN (4) LOG XROOT LOG (5) Method #1 in System RPL (6) Method #3 in System RPL Method #1 often gets different results from Method #2. Examples: LOG(12,2): Method #1 is right; Method #2 is wrong. LOG(13,2): Method #1 is wrong; Method #2 is right. LOG(17,2): Both #1 and #2 are one ULP high. LOG(21,2): Both #1 and #2 are one ULP low. LOG(18,2): #1 is one ULP high; #2 is one ULP low. LOG(37,2): #1 is one ULP low; #2 is one ULP high. Therefore it cannot be said that #1 or #2 is *always* better than the other. Which of the two is more often accurate? Furthermore (and possibly differently), which of the two has the greater standard deviation from the correct answer? Taking the log of RAND base RAND one thousand times is interesting; it seems to support the counterintuitive Method #2. Is that because RAND is always between 0 and 1, for which LNP1 is more accurate than LN? I do not know. This would suggest that System RPL versions of Methods #2 and #4 should be tested, which as far as I know has not been done. Methods #3 and #4 are occasionally more accurate than Methods #1 and #2, and benefit from being short and easy to perform from the keyboard. However, Methods #3 and #4 are *usually* less accurate than Methods #1 and #2, so don't use 'em in a program or when you need the greatest possible accuracy. Method #5 can be coded thus: :: CK2NOLASTWD CK&DISPATCH1 REALREAL :: %%LN SWAP %%LN SWAP ; ; and Method #6 looks similar: :: CK2NOLASTWD CK&DISPATCH1 REALREAL :: %%LN %%1/ %%^ %%LN ; ; Method #5 is so accurate that I've been unable to find a case where it gets the wrong answer, although there *must* be some such cases, since RPL *truncates* results after the 15th digit and then *rounds* to the 12th digit. So I'll guess that one out of every 2000 random results from Method #5 will be off by one ULP. But that's just a guess. Method #6 is very accurate too, but slightly less than Method #5. Example: LOG(2,23): Bottom line: Use Method #5 when you need results that are good to the last ULP. Credit: All results were verified using BIGCALC, an old but blazingly fast DOS RPN calculator with settable precision to over 1000 digits. BIGCALC was written by Judson McClendon. -Joe- ==== Hi The present version at hpcalc is too old. Longfloat has been updated to version 2.5 and this version will be uploaded to hpcalc today. It is now possible to have automatic evaluation of algebraics and matrix of algebraics for most functions to arbitrary precision. User defined functions in sub expressions are allowed. However, these should normally return longfloat numbers. E.g. 50 «DIGITS' STO 1.25 'X' STO 'SIN(Z*pi*X)' evaluates automatically to 50 digits Also, a *single* matrix expression from CAS can be numerically evaluated to arbitrary precision, but use the CAS first to simplify : [['SIN(2*X)' 'SIN(X)' ]] 'Y1' STO [['COS(2*X)']['COS(X)']] 'Y2' STO 'Y1*Y2' ( not allowable simplify first) EVAL and you have evaluated y1*y2 to approximately 50 digits ;-) Note: Although each single function ( e.g. SIN) is evaluated to a precision of +/- 1 in last digit, the resulting precision for e.g. 'SIN(X)*COS(X)*pi' would generally have less precision. And for single algebraics Thomas' unitfunctions are included ;-)) Gjermund Skailand ==== I guess there is no precision tracking? -- ==== There has to be, for it to be useful... ==== One could do the algorithm analysis on a PC and then change the internal calculation accuracy of each algorithm to reflect the needed output accuracy. Ofcourse there are cases where certain input ranges require special attention and one much either switch to a different algorithm or change the internal accuracy based on the input value (or exponent). Just some thoughts. ==== Hi When I was in military we had a simple rule: if it you didn't use enough eplosive the fist time then you double and try again. i.e You would have to repeat the calculation with more digits and compare the result. but seriously how would you do presision tracking even on something as simple as a-b where a is almost equal to b or EXP(1/SIN(x)) ,x ~2 pi Wouldn't you have to resort to something likeintervall aritmetic, real exact arithmetic, linear fractional transformations? I'm only using floating point representation. Gjermund ==== a fiend make his source on his computer he copies his source in a txt file then he transfers it on his HP and he ASM it :) Eric 3dd2965f$0$22965$626a54ce@news.free.fr... I'm ==== X I thought all the errors come free or does HP charge the errors separately nowadays ;-) ==== ROTFL! Nick. ==== Yes, I realized that I meant integer powers after I posted, but the thread strengthen his argument by pointing out that fractional exponents of negative numbers always yielded imaginary results. Sorry again. Bill alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) ==== negative And I'm grateful: with my poor english is often difficult to say what I want. ==== I thought that rpn was supposed to be fast and efficient, but ever since i switched from my 89 to a 48gx it hasnt been the case. Am i doing something wrong? for simple problems such as 5+6+6+7 , a TI would only require 8 keystrokes...yet i find myself doing 5 SPC 6 SPC 6 SPC 7 +++ on my hp...which is a total of 10 keystrokes. i know i could have done 5ENTER 6+ 6+ 7+ but that doesnt work for all problems...considering that u have to worry about order of operation. FURTHERMORE...i find it tedious when it comes to simple problems such as 6+5*6-6/7. The TI automatically takes care of order of operations for me. With the hp i have to always keep order of operation in mind when keying in the number. That doesnt bother me for short problems...but it would be really annoying for longer ones. the hp doesnt seem to know that it has to do 5 * 6 and 6/7 first before doing the subraction and addition...well unless i use the delimiter button...which is another keystroke. Am i missing something...please help a newbie out. ==== That is. doing I n other cases, you will need to use () in your TI, don't you? Example: TI: :(4+5)/(1+2)= HP: 4 enter 5+1enter2+/ PS: Press ' and write algebraicly. Yous'll see how the hp does know to do * and / before + and - ==== Comments interwoven... It takes a little getting used to. When I first got a HP49 (which is very nice btw), I thought most people in this newsgroup were nuts for liking such an arcane thing as RPN. Why complicate things? After a day of playing with the thing, It really seems alot easier to me. It just takes practice. Of course, some people will never like RPN... Perhaps you are thinking about it the wrong way. Here's how I think about it. With algerbraic, you basically type the thing in as you see it and boom, the anwser appears. With RPN, you 'build' the equation step by step. EG for 5+6+7+8, I think: get 5. add 6, then add 7, then add 8 - which translates to 5 enter 6 + 7+ 8 + Not much of an advantage so far I'd admit. I Do it like you would by hand - multiply 5 by 6, then add 6. work out 6 / 7 then subtract. 5 e 6 * 6 + 6 e 7 / - Again, no point for something like this. Here's a trickier problem. Solve: 5^(sqr(7*4^Pi))/(8*9/4+sqr(7^2+5^2)) (30 keystrokes) It would take me several tries to get that right via algerbraic. Put the brackets in the wrong spot and you get the wrong answer. The beauty of RPN here is that as you build the equation, mistakes are very easier to spot and correct. EG: Take 5. Work out 4 to the power of Pi. multiply that by 7. Sqr the result. Put the result as 5's power. etc. etc. etc. 5 e 4 e Pi ^ * sqr ^ 8 e 9 * 4 / 7 sq 5 sq + sqr + / (23 keystrokes) Looks hard like this, but when you have a screen in front of you it;s easy. Saving almost a third of keystrokes is a bonus. both a blessing and a curse. To be honest I don;t know what the delimeter button is... You mean those tick things? Don't think of RPN as a painful chore brought to you by the old school elite (like I used to ;-) but rather as building an equation step by step. The biggest time saver is not having to correct your equation after mismatching brackets. Fewer keystrokes as well. Hope this helps, Al www.alborowski.tk ==== Erm, but what about (5+6)*(3+4)? Algebraic systems deal with the precedence of operations for you when it agrees with the predefined precedences, and only then. --tim ==== Hi, I first learned RPN on my HP-45 in 1974 and to me it was THE way to go. In fact it is like I learned in school. For example if you want to add 734 and 136 what I learned was to put 734, then under it, 136, then add like: 734 + 136 ------ 870 With RPN : 734 ENTER 136 + The fun with RPN and a multi line display is that the stack shows the number as you would put them on paper to perform the operation by hand. As for the examples given by others work them the way it was explained in HP instruction books of that era (1970's). Type a number. Can you perform a monadic function on it (monadic means using only one argument, like SIN, SQRT, LOG, etc.). If yes, then do it. If no then press ENTER to push the number on the stack. Type another number. Can you perform a dyadic function (function with two arguments)with the one already on the stack and the one you have just typed. If yes, then do it, if no then press ENTER to push the number on the stack. With HP 48, 49 and the like, you can see the first few levels of the stack and keep an eye on what is going on. With older models like 45, function to manipulate the stack and check intermediate values. So, for a more complex example like: e^3 + 7 / (4 + 5 / 6) You can type: 3 e^x 7 ENTER 4 ENTER 5 ENTER 6 / + / + For a total of 13 keystrokes. Of course you can perform this calculation from the deepest level like: 5 ENTER 6 / 4 + 1/X 7 * 3 e^x + for 12 keystrokes. Not a big saving. Or: 7 ENTER 5 ENTER 6 / 4 + / 3 e^x + Again 12 keystrokes. Hoping that helps a little. Jean Lemire from Montreal. ==== supposed to just typing in the numbers and getting a meaningless answer with the TI...but i'll have to spend some time getting used to RPN...heheh. ==== At the risk of sounding slightly nuts, entering an equation into an algebraic calculator makes me feel like a typist; solving it in RPN is a lot more fun. Neill McKay ==== I guess it boils down to personal preference. Even though I am familiar with RPN and use Lars' RPN from time to time, I usually work with algebraic notation. -- P.S.: And I've never felt like a typist :-) ==== As a former Sharp user, I used to program in basic. I bought Hp49G and now I have to wright a program with many goto n structures. I am lost. Just got started and alredy have 20-30 subprograms. Is there any easier way? Sorry for my bad english and please help.. Zvonko Juras ==== Yes, start by using RPN input, and thereby UserRPL. Advance to SysRPL and you're saved ;-) ==== Long, long ago, in this very newsgroup, Chris Campbell (famous for giving for turning BASIC programs full of GOTO's into RPL! Learning RPL will serve you well in porting any program in any language into tight, efficient RPL. However, it must be admitted that many BASIC programs are just plain incomprehensible spaghetti code; for such evil programs, Campbell's method works just fine. He took one of the most convoluted BASIC programs ever written (a maze generator) and applied his method to it... and it ran in RPL! Oldtimers will recognize his writing style. Ah, those were the days! Happy Programming! -Joe- I tried translating [MAZE] from Basic to RPL a couple of years ago, but very quickly went nuts in the process, as about 80% of the program lines end with a GOTO or implied Goto... The school of thought that i was then working from was that i would have to convert the Basic program into a Flow-Chart, and then translate -that- into RPL... I had pasted several sheets of paper together and was merrily pushing the chart out further and further, writing smaller and smaller, drawing more and more boxes with paths leading from one to another and back again, in several different colours, all the while trying to keep some sense of what the program was doing... I've found that whenever i'm engaged in something like this, i have to completely submerse myself in it, so that nothing is allowed to compete with the allocated neural capacity that's been set aside for this... Then for whatever reasons, i was somehow distracted, and when i returned to the flowchart in question, all my meticulous scribbilings made all the sense of the residue one might find in a slightly gelatinous puddle produced by a sick hamster. [!!! -jkh-] sigh. So i put it aside-- until just recently when the necessary Key Insight occurred to me, in conjunction with a collection of postings on the comp.sys.hp48. The Key Insight is this: Don't even Try to Understand the program. Simply create a List of all the Basic program lines, With each Program Line constituting one Programming Object, Then evaluate each object in the Desired Sequence. It's mighty dang slow, but the criteria that i was working from was that; a) i just want the program to work. b) i don't want to figure it out. c) & don't want to put alot of effort into it. The procedure then becomes: Type the Basic program into your Big Box. PROOF READ IT! PROOF READ IT AGAIN!! If possible, isolate the most offensive areas where the most number of Goto's occur...The method i used was to print out the program, paste the sheets together so that it created one long continuous listing, and then used a red pen to draw links from line to line going down through the program on the left, and a blue pen to draw links from line to line going up through the program on the right. This created a very messy listing, but it was also clear that the program consisted of essentially three parts, two of which could be converted into RPL fairly straight-forwardly. The middle part however was a classic example of incomprehensible spaghetti code. I took that middle part and copied it to another file where i could work on it in isolation. I then used the Find and Change-All functions to ReNumber the program lines from; in this case, 210 through 1000, to 1 through 100, along with all the internal references to those line numbers. Then i changed all the Carriage returns to ProgramObject delimiters so that list delimiters { } around the outside of these, and an HP header at the top. So that it now looked something like this; %%HP: T(3)A(D)F(.); { ... } Then each individual program object would have to be tediously translated to RPL, an annoying, but not impossibly dreary process... The Bit of Code in the Main program that executes this list consists of this routine: Which takes one number, the number referring to the object that should be next Evaluated...so that each Line/ProgramObject has to leave on the stack the number of -Next- Line/ProgramObject to be Evaluated...??? %%HP: T(3)A(D)F(.); { ... } All the variables have to be either Global Variables or left-arrow prefixed Local Variables; <- ! Then simply arrange all the bits in their appropriate sequence and follow all the other -normal- RPL programming directives! program ----- ==== HP calcs web page is changed. http://www.shopping.hp.com/cgi-bin/hpdirect/shopping/scripts/home/store_acce ss.jsp?template_type=storefronts&category=calculators&aoid=1429 -- ================================================ BELLANTONE MAURIZIO - IT consultant, free programmer SPINETTA MARENGO (AL) - ITALY ---------------------------------------------------------- ================================================ ==== http://vader.brad.ac.uk/finance/tfp.html A quote from this homepage: Take a look at the chart produced by Tomorrow's Financial Pages. It shows the S&P 500 futures contract to October 2001. I chose this contract as it is well known to many readers and is a great favourite among professional traders. Curiously, TFP does not predict the CLOSE of the S&P very well but is astonishingly good at predicting the OPEN! This opens up the novel idea of the Night Trader, run the figures through TFP just before market close to get a prediction of tomorrow's open and take an appropriate position just before market close. How does he calculate this?? ==== OFF TOPIC. . . but I have a problem with a Panasonic portable hand cassete player and no where else I can tyhink of to get the answer. One of the 2 AA battery kinds. A short while ago it stopped working. After a little bit of experimenting, it turns out that a Àdiode? (i think) stopped wrking. I{ve asked the repair shops around here but no one has one. I figured as there are a few people here that know about electronics ;-) someone would be able to suggest an alternate replacement. Keep in mind I{m not able to just run down to Radio Shack and buy one. . . The diode (i think that is what is is) is different then most diodes. It looks like half a black cylinder with two feet. (like the three feeted ones that I can{t remember what are called *sheesh. . .*). On the flat end is written N25 and below it off to one side U. I tried bridging it with a little wire, and that works just fine with new batteries, but slows down after a short while. I tried various low level resistors like the honduran repair guys said, but that doesn{t work. I don{t have any books to look at to find an alternate replacement and cant find it on the net. I would be very appreciative if someone can suggest a more common alternate or something so I can fix this. I know someone out there knows about diodes as there has been past discussion of the question: my hp48«s new batteries only last for 2 or 3 days after I put the batteries in backwards. . . next monday. =) TW ==== the diode is for reverse battery protection i assume? is it in series with the batt's to the electronics? if so, then its for reverse protection. then you could bypass it, just make sure you always put your batt's in correctly. typical Si diode voltage drop is about 0.6 v. quite a bit from a 3v supply. maybe a special diode, or a Ge type which has 0.3v drop. good luck be sure to understand http://www.anti-matrix.net ==== Excuse my bad english. I have a big problem with my hp49g. I try a sys-rpl program today(a part of MoonLight), and now is my hp49 not working. I see only the Try to recover memory screen, and I can do anything. The yes [F1]-key and the no [F6]-key doensn't work, and when I try to use the [ON]-key the calculator make a continuous bip. I try all: [ON][C], [ON][F1][F6], [ON][F3][backspace], RESET on the back of the calculator, take out the battery, NOTHING!! It's terrible. I don't kwon what I should do. Please if someone know how to fix this problem, help me. Dimitri. ==== I am just reposting a fix someone else posted about a similar problem, try what is suggested below, hope it works. Stan. --------- try to reboot with [ON]&[F4] - Q and press while rebooting the backspace-key (The broken lib won't be attached this way). If the library is causing the problems this should solve it. Don't forget to purge the broken lib with the filer. BTW: The program P0erase ist just to be used if the upgrade-process goes wrong and you don't even have acces to the download menu anymore. Hope this helps Roman ---------- to with takes on when ON keyboard just yet ==== hi, Did you try to reboot with [ON]+[F4],[Q]+[BACKSPACE]? The right timing of pressing the backspace is important. If you still should have acces to diagnostic mode ([ON]+[F4]) you can try to reinstall the OS. I assume you have the connectivity kit. If this still doesnt work you can manually format your flash-rom (port 2). I had to do this once to make my calc work again. There is also a program at www.hpcalc.org you could try. The name of the program is P0erase. Hope this helps Good luck Roman ==== I just remembered that he program P0erase makes only sense in case your upgrade process went wrong and you don't have acces to the download menu anymore. The other post above helped me to remember about some other post covering similar problems with hp49g in unusable states. Here is a more detailed guide to bring your calc back to life. Most of this things mentioned you have allready tried. But as an example pressing the backspace at the exactly right time while rebooting the calc is not that easy but important, so you have to try maybe a few times till it works. (make sure you're using new batteries before trying this!!) 1) Press [ON]&[F3] to reboot the calc and while rebooting the backspace key (try this several times as the right timing to press the backspace key is important) if it fails ... 2) Reset your calc with a paperclip (there is a hole on the back of thecalc) if it fails ... 3) try to reset with [ON]&[F4] -Q and press the backspace-key while rebooting (this way an eventually broken lib won't be attached, Don't forgetto delete the broken libs) if it fails ... 4) Reset your calc with [ON]&[F1]&[F6] if it fails ... 5) Download the OS again if it fails ... 6) If you don't have acces to the download menu anymore use P0erase (makes only sense if your upgrade process failed before) 7) Install the OS again if it fails ... 8) Erase bank 8-15 (Port 2) manually, do this in the download-menu. if it fails ... 9) Take the batteries out for some days if it fails ... you have now a very cool paperweight ;-) If the unit is still under warranty get a replacement. Roman ==== When you press YES it may take quite a while (I've seen cases with 30 minutes). If you don't want to wait, simply press NO, but you will loose all your data. Otherwise, Press [ON] and [F3] at the same time. If it fails again, then try pressing [ON]-[F3] and just when you release these two keys, press and hold the backspace key until you see the home screen. Then using the filer delete the corrupted object. If you do not get anything happening with your calculator, then using a paperclip press the reset button in the back of the calculator for about 5s. Then press the ON key and see what happens.. Forget what you've read in other messages like using P0ERASE this has to be used ONLY when the upgrade from rom 1.19-4 (and before) to 1.19-5 or 1.19-6 fails. In your case I doubt reflashing the calculator will be of any help as I've never seen a SysRPL program damaging the flash. Just pressing the right key will make it work for you ==== I try all possible. The problem with my hp49g is: I can't use any key, I can't access any diagnostic mode, I also can't reboot, and I can't access download menu. I can't use any combination with [ON]. I just see the try to recover memory screen when I click [ON], and the only key that responds is the [ON]-key with a continuously bip bip bip ... as long as I press [ON]. I just see the small sablier, sand glass(that show that the calculator is doing something). I tried already to reset the HP49G on the back of the calculator(I thing more than 50 times). I try to remove the battery for more thant 12 hours(it's was a tip of the [ON]-key for more than 5 mn(Also a tip from Prof. Wolfgang Rautenberg), but I get nothing, only this bip. I really don't know what I should do. It's terrible that only because of a software problem I'm not more able to use my hp. I hope I will fix this problem(with any means necessary). I don't want to use my hp as a very cool paperweight(I read this joke in one of the answer). I am not able(it's a little bit expensiv for me) to get a brand new calculator. Regard. ==== hi Dimitri ! I have the same problem ! nothing works... BUT, i have TWO calcs in the same situation. Both death ! I«ve opened one of them, i need some information of how erase the flash manualy, and i mean, over the chip ! Luciano ==== I might be the first... Yesterday I was running bzDIR and accidentally pressed ON during the operation. The calculator went dead, and I had to use the hardware reset to get the HOME screen to appear. No keys worked except ON-combinations. I tried ON-A-F and got TTRM, but it ignored Yes and No. I tried rebooting with the backspace pressed and it made no difference. So I ran the ON-D diags and it said that there was a CRC failure in Bank 1. I reflashed the ROM and everything is now fine. Including the SysRPL version of bzDIR that seemed to cause it. Bill ==== Hi Thomas! Astonishment! This matches my previous message, J-1 and K-1 are both divisible by 2x, when x is such that J=7x^2 + 2x + 1 and K=7x^2 - 2x + 1 are primes. Thomas how did you find x=5220, was it just searching or something else? Good. Could this be proved for N=2x where x is such that J,K are primes? :-/ Greetings, Nick. ==== Hi Rodger! Interesting, really! But what makes GCD(J-1,K-1) so different? Greetings, Nick. ==== Hi Rodger! Rodger, what about x=1290. The HP49G says that then 7x^2+2x+3 and 7x^2-2x+3 are both primes. Is that false? Greetings, Nick. ==== Seen: This provides a shorter proof, at last, of Fermat's Last Theorem :) Something similar is commonly used, however, to conclude that some integer is prime, which the HP49 will sometimes assert when it isn't so, because the abbreviated procedure only indicates a probable prime, much as you can get arrested for only a probable crime :) I believe that RSA public key generation also commonly tests for primes in only a probabilistic fashion, based on the extremely low probability of generating a bad key pair (it's possible that a bad pair won't actually work in practice, though, which if so would constitute a final positive test). More examples of highly probable but uncertain things: http://www.utm.edu/research/primes/notes/conjectures http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GoldbachConjecture.html But the following people are more certain than others: http://website.lineone.net/~pierz/maths.htm http://www.geocities.com/carryme47714 Is our NSA out scouting for future talent? http://www.nsa.gov/programs/mepp/ms/numthe02.pdf Breaking codes was easier when all it took to accomplish was a roomful of bright, attractive ladies with pencils: http://powell.ifrance.com/powell/sebastian.htm http://classicvideo.ch/FilmSheet.cfm?ID=8544 http://blockbuster.com/bb/movie/details/0,7286,VID-V++++43402,00.html Gielgud, Sutherland, Bogarde, York and Palmer all must have regretted signing on. The film's producer Herbert Brodkin, later commenting on producing TV dramas: They have reduced the audience's level of receptivity to a bunch of monkeys asking for the same peanuts. And they are the same organ grinders giving it to them. If that sounds extreme, it's not. It's true. http://www.bartleby.com/63/45/8445.html Brodkin also produced: Ralph Bellamy, William Shatner and Steve McQueen made the pilot. -[]- . ==== Hi, Nick, When x=1290, for 7x^2 + 2x + 3 I get 11651283 and for 7x^2 - 2x + 3 I get 11646123, neither of which is prime. Is this not what you get? Perhaps you were evaluating 7x^2 + 2x +1 and 7x^2 - 2x +1, which are the expressions Joe mentioned earlier. ==== Have you a specific example where the HP49 does this? I'm surprised that such an example is known. ==== Hey! Watch your language! ;-) http://www.bigwaste.com/shatner/ -Joe- ==== My count is 234 times, for x = : 22 23 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 36 38 40 41 42 43 44 46 48 51 52 53 54 57 59 60 61 62 64 65 66 67 69 73 78 79 80 81 82 85 86 87 89 100 101 102 106 107 108 110 112 121 123 125 127 128 131 133 135 140 144 145 147 148 152 154 155 158 159 161 173 175 176 178 179 181 182 188 192 196 199 200 213 217 234 235 238 239 244 245 249 250 255 256 260 266 270 271 276 279 287 291 292 293 297 308 310 313 319 326 329 334 340 345 348 354 355 357 359 363 375 380 383 384 386 391 393 396 403 407 410 412 418 424 428 431 432 433 443 445 448 453 466 481 491 497 503 504 506 518 522 525 538 539 542 543 546 561 564 567 570 578 579 582 583 592 614 649 655 667 676 678 680 688 694 696 709 710 719 725 726 731 743 744 746 748 755 756 757 764 765 767 770 771 784 789 794 802 803 810 814 815 819 820 824 825 836 857 863 872 876 877 878 889 893 897 909 915 928 933 937 948 950 958 966 974 976 979 983 986 999 1000 Scott -- Scott Hemphill hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu This isn't flying. This is falling, with style. -- Buzz Lightyear ==== http://groups.google.com/groups?&q=6830509209595831+group%3Acomp.sys.hp48&bt nG=Google+Search Jordi Hidalgo HPCC #1046 -- ==== It's not 480 primes; it's 480 *times* that *both* functions produce primes simultaneously. -Joe- ==== (a programming language developed primarily for number theory exploration) musta been a steaming pile of shatner. :-( -Joe- ==== By searching, however not on my HP. Is that against the rules? ;-) Thomas -- If you cannot convince them, confuse them. -- Harry S. Truman ==== I had to try too. 128 seconds - ISPRIME? must be really slow ;-) ==== For detailed discussion, see Mika Heiskanen's posts in this thread: (Mika implemented these commands) http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=m4mwvsbq2g0.fsf%40delta.hut.fi . ==== Yes, you will be violently taken away from Glarus and brought in the darkest dungeons of Nidwalden, where you will spend your life waiting for an answer in front of your HP. ;-) On the other hand, considering that we don't have 3000000 years time for searching with the HP, we could declare working with other systems to be a rule. That is, just for finding something before we cross the river ;-) Greetings, Nick. ==== Ahaaaaaa! Joe's polynomials were: and indeed these are those which I used. Are the following polynomials: your own discovery? Greetings, Nick. ==== Hi Joe, oops, that's what I meant.. and exactly the point I was getting at. Aaron ==== Well, (blush), yes. I think I used the same Joe used; fool around with the coefficients. But what about the question I asked. If, after n reaches 126 million or so, we haven't gotten a single prime pair, are we entitled to say that there will never be any? Technically, no, but how do you feel about it? ==== A couple months back, there was a news item saying that some number theorists in India had discovered a fast (polynomial time), deterministic primality testing algorithm. It was published in some scholarly journal, but the newsies felt that it was of interest to the general public. You can read about it at http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/news/primality.html . The algorithm is simple enough, but I haven't gotten around to implementing it yet. If you guys beat me to implementation, I won't mind... :-) Lance ==)---------------- lrreiche@inav.your.pants.net Please remove your.pants. to contact me directly. ==== If you do a little checking, you find that any x that is odd gives results where both numbers are divisible by 2. Also, any x that is a multiple of 3 will mean that both numbers are divisible by 3. Lastly, for 7x^2+2x+3, for numbers x=4 MOD 6, we find the numbers are divisible by 3. AND: for 7x^2-2x+3, for numbers x=2 MOD 6, we also find that the numbers are divisible by 3. (the = sign should be a congruence sign). give a prime number. But, you're welcome to try it for as long as you wish to. John Edry ==== I had hoped that if I prodded long enough, I could get someone else interested. I can't do all the work, you know. :-) ==== so, we haven't be any? Since the first prime-generating n for some poly pairs is very large (in the thousands), I have a tickly feeling that reaching 126 million without finding one does NOT necessarily mean that there aren't any. I've yet to see a first n greater than 1E6, but methinks that's only because I haven't looked long enough. But... that's just a feeling, and I'd equally enjoy seeing it proved or disproved. -Joe- ==== However... You proved that this particular poly pair is prime-pair output-free by examining inputs mod 6. Some other poly pair might be a mod 12 situation, right? Or mod 210. Is there any way of reaching our goal without using trial and error on sets of inputs mod m? Or is there any way of determining what the modulus is without trial and error? -Joe- ==== Yes, I read about it a while back. It's pretty decent work ;-) ==== This new algorithm is not *fast*. It runs in polynomial time and provides a deterministic answer about the primality of a given number. There were already other such polynomial-time algorithms, but those didn't work for *any* number (only special cases ones). In crypto, we use good sub-exponential probabilistic non-primality tests (such as Fermat, or Rabin-Miller), which, when run enough times, provide a good primality test with a definable risk of being wrong. Theoritically speaking, the algorithm you're talking about is a great enhancement, it proves that the primality test is a P-class problem. Unfortunately, the proposed algorithm runs in O((log n)^12), where n is the number to test. This is too slow to be practical. In practice, it can't compete with a good Rabin-Miller that runs in time O((log n)^5). The Rabin-Miller must be run a number of times to minimize the risks of letting a composite pass the test, but this number of times is a small one (5 or 6), and it decreases when n grows. -- ----- AD: Tous les outils et mat.8eriels existent, ce n'est pas on.8ereux de plus. AD: Monte ton serveur et tu pourras faire ce que bon te chantes. DP: Et la libert.8e Mr le censeur??? tu en fais quoi??? -+- In : Guide du Neuneu d'Usenet - Bien chier sur la moquette -+- ==== Hi Rodger! -snipped rest-- It is always dangerous to make general statements out of particular events, though of course what one feels always plays some role. In this case, well, I really don't know. Greetings, Nick. ==== Hi John! need to search anymore. Greetings, Nick. ==== That's not true, isn it? You still get incredible amounts of prime numbers even when searcing through arbitrarily big numbers. miz. ==== the prime x's. Yes and no. The number of primes does decrease, but you're right that the number stays surprisingly high. Example: For the famous fabulous [1 21 1] poly pair, here are the number of prime pairs produced for every 1000 consecutive x's starting at 22 (and *this* time I remembered to clear the accumulator between iterations!): 236, 142, 114, 120, 101, *89*, 89, 93, *80*, 91, 81, 82, 87, 94, 93, *77*, 81, *65*, 78, 83, 80, 90, 69, 89, 78, 80, 74, 72, 73, *60*, 73, 93, 65, *53*, 61, 62, 75, 67, 58, 69, 72, 69, 74, *48*, 71, 68, 75, 58, 50, 60, 74, 64, 60, 60, 64, 52, 68, 53, 64, 67, 65, 60, 79, 60, *41*, ... Fitting this data to a curve is left as an exercise for the sutdent. -Joe- ==== I understand that the discovery's chief value is in proving primality is in P. Yes, O(log n)^12) is a huge growth rate. I was unaware that the probablistic tests were this good. You say that the number of retests using Rabin-Miller sufficient for confidence of correctness decreases as n grows. Is there any point at which it vanishes, or is it approaching zero assymptotically? For cryptography applications, what is an acceptable probability that a composite number gets labeled prime? How large an n is needed in order to reach that probability with a single run of Rabin-Miller? Lance ==)------------------ Probabilities are useless for predicting the future -- they serve only to show that we don't know... lrreiche@inav.your.pants.net Drop your.pants. to reply directly. ==== What are the asterisks for? And, I get a slightly different list of x's, namely: 236, 142, 114, 120, 101, 89, 89, 93, 80, 91, 81, 82, 87, 94, 93, 76, 81, 65, 78, 83, 80, 90, 69, 89, 78, 80, 74, 72, 73, 60, 73, 93, 65, 53, 61, 62, 75, 67, 58, 69, 72, 69, 74, 48, 71, 68, 75, 58, 50, 60, 74, 64, 60, 60, 64, 52, 68, 53, 64, 67, 64, 59, 79, 59, 41 The first place where we differ is where you get 77 and I get 76. The values of x for which I get a prime pair are: 15027, 15036, 15044, 15048, 15050, 15069, 15076, 15093, 15097, 15101, 15107, 15169, 15194, 15223, 15228, 15244, 15245, 15264, 15274, 15278, 15284, 15308, 15309, 15330, 15343, 15395, 15398, 15404, 15419, 15424, 15433, 15435, 15436, 15451, 15470, 15509, 15528, 15530, 15567, 15588, 15622, 15629, 15650, 15656, 15668, 15681, 15684, 15697, 15701, 15703, 15711, 15718, 15758, 15770, 15773, 15798, 15810, 15811, 15831, 15860, 15872, 15879, 15886, 15887, 15889, 15900, 15905, 15906, 15919, 15927, 15939, 15943, 15976, 15989, 16010, 16020 This is for x such that 15022 <= x <= 16021. That's a thousand integers, right? ==== *77*, 74, To bolster my hypothesis that as x increases the PO/PI ratio decreases slightly. The asterisked outputs are smaller than any previous output. Holy smokes! Believe it or not, I committed the newbie error of trying to iterate 1000 times by looping from N to N+1000! Boo, hiss! Changing N+1000 to N+999 (of course), and throwing in a Lampman Correction (for good luck), produces the same table as yours. -Joe- N+1000! is *way* too big! ==== The following theorems give some details to Mizrandir's comment. ----------------------------------------------------- (Euclid) The number of primes is infinite. That is, the sequence of primes {p1, p2, p3, ... Pn ...} has no largest member. Proof: Assume the list of primes is finite and can be written {p1, p2, p3,..., pn}. Form the number K= 1 + p1*p2*p3...*pn. This number is not divisible by p1 or p2 or p3... or pn. Since K is either prime or has a prime factor p, either K is prime itself (and it isn't in the list), or if K is composite there must be another prime not in the list. Hence, the list doesn't contain all the primes. So our assumption that the number of primes is finite is false. Q.E.D. ----------------------------------------------------- There are arbitrarily large gaps in the primes. Proof: Consider the integers (k+1)!+2, (k+1)!+3, ..., (k+1)!+k, (k+1)!+k+1 Every one of these is composite because j divides (k+1)!+j if 2 <= j <= k+1. Q.E.D. ------------------------------------------------------ So, if you give me a large integer K, I can display K consecutive composite integers. Even though the primes are infinite in number, there are arbitrarily large prime-free gaps in the integers. Isn't that fascinating? There are infinitely many primes, yet they get scarcer and scarcer way out there. ==== Do u know a soft who determinate if a number is prime or not. For hp48. ==== Alg48 and Erable, but if you need something smaller look for it in hpcalc.org ==== WHILE 'divider