B9 ==== Is there a part number on the cover or manual that could allow me to order one from HP? > Haa! > I managed to slide in the HP 38G cover on my HP 48GX !! > The 39G used the same keyboard/case as the 49G but the 38G was a completely new molding. There's no way that the 38G's sliding cover will > work with anything other than the 38G. I notice on the HP website awhile back that the HP 38G had a slide > cover. I > have looked over the HP site but can not find a mention to it in > replacement > parts. Sense the 38G is using the 48 style case, those cover should > work on > the 48 as well. Does anyone know what the part number is for the cover > or > know where covers can be found? Richard Garner > rgarner@vidnet.net > ==== Maybe I could send you one? What is your address? Any others willing to try it on thie 48S/G calc? Veli-Pekka (I hope I did fool the spambots, but actully U just add u to my real address and change the welho to msn) > Is there a part number on the cover or manual that could allow me to order > one from HP? Haa! > I managed to slide in the HP 38G cover on my HP 48GX !! > The 39G used the same keyboard/case as the 49G but the 38G was a > completely new molding. There's no way that the 38G's sliding cover will > work with anything other than the 38G. I notice on the HP website awhile back that the HP 38G had a slide > cover. I > have looked over the HP site but can not find a mention to it in > replacement > parts. Sense the 38G is using the 48 stile case, those cover should > work on > the 48 as well. Does anyone know what the part number is for the > cover > or > know where covers can be found? Richard Garner > rgarner@vidnet.net > ==== maybe I'm stupid, I have HP49G for 5 days. To convert a value with units (8 m to ? mm) I need 7 steps by HP48GX. To convert a value with units (8 m to ? mm) I need 21 steps by HP49G. In RPN mode I must carry out by HP49G. 8; arrow right; minus; alpha; arrow left; m; Enter; 1; arrow right; minus; alpha; arrow left; m; alpha; arrow left; m; Enter; arrow right; units; OK; OK; RESULT 8000 mm. Is that true? Or make I mistakes? Hans Joachim (.de) ==== >8; >arrow right; >minus; >alpha; >arrow left; >m; >Enter; >1; >arrow right; >minus; >alpha; >arrow left; >m; >alpha; >arrow left; >m; >Enter; >arrow right; >units; >OK; RESULT 8000 mm. Is that true? Or make I mistakes? > Yes, 8m is 8000mm. You did not make a mistake. Seriously, Nobody mentioned that you should set flag 117, soft menu to restore HP48 softmenu key functionality. It should be intuitive from there. alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) ==== > maybe I'm stupid, I have HP49G for 5 days. To convert a value with > units (8 m to ? mm) I need 7 steps by > HP48GX. To convert a value > with units (8 m to ? mm) I need 21 steps by HP49G. Avoid reading the 49-manual on units! It simply omits (!) the really ingenious unit handling from the 48 and makes a sophisticated story of all this. With my small library Unitman (which, of course, sets the RPN mode in case the user forgets it :-) you can convert what you want in just one leftshift key-stroke. And you can quite easily customize the whole builtin units system to an European setting (or even a German one, with German names of Unit directories, say :-). Moreover, you can eliminate these various square-miles etc (without loosing them). Your own user-defined units are handled as if they were builtin, i.e., you can convert them with leftshift like the builtin units on the 48, but now on the 49! PS. Unitman is available for both, the 48 and the 49 ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/science/ ==== > Avoid reading the 49-manual on units! It simply omits (!) the really > ingenious unit handling from the 48 and makes a sophisticated story of > all this. With my small library Unitman (which, of course, sets the RPN > mode in case the user forgets it :-) you can convert what you want in Hehe, good way to advertise your software. Nice program by the way. Is there something that can simplify (kg^2*m^4)/(A^3*s^6) to Wb/F without thinking too much of what unit to convert to? Converting to SI base units is easy, but sometimes trying to 'simplify' certain units proves difficult. There has to be around this, no? -- Al Distribution: world ==== I am superseeding my previous reply with a slightly changed version because Eric asked me to use www.hpcalc.org for references, not ca-on.hpcalc.org as I accidentally did. s> Is there something that can simplify (kg^2*m^4)/(A^3*s^6) to Wb/F without s> thinking too much of what unit to convert to? Converting to SI base units s> is easy, but sometimes trying to 'simplify' certain units proves difficult. s> There has to be around this, no? Yes, there are several libraries for this on hpcalc.org: SIunits by Rub.8en P.8erez is excellent. It does a fully automatic job, but cannot be configured. So if you want speciific outcomes for specific units, it may or may not work. For your example above, it works. http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1619 XUNITS by Luis Morales Boisset allows to set your preferred units, and also tried combinations of these preferred units. http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4651 Utool is a library with many tools for Units. One of the commands is USIMP which needs to be configured, but gives you full control over the outcome. http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4612 There is also a UserRPL program for this task by John H Meyers http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=2911 Hope this helps - Carsten ==== > Yes, there are several libraries for this on hpcalc.org: It is much better being told what programs are convenient for this task than searching and testing out many programs. -- Al ==== Hans Joachim Klotz ha scritto nel > maybe I'm stupid, I have HP49G for 5 days. > To convert a value with units (8 m to ? mm) I need 7 steps by HP48GX. To convert a value with units (8 m to ? mm) I need 21 steps by HP49G. In RPN mode I must carry out by HP49G. Sorry I can't really understand... do you use HP49G in RPN? If so converting should be simple... 8 RightShift-6 (UNITS) F2 (LENGTH) F1 (m) LeftShift-F3 (mm) You have the correct result on the stack Maybe I haven't understood the question.. if so my apologies... try to explain in other words... Kickaha ==== Following steps are neccesary by HP48. 8; RightShift; (6)Units; LENG; M; LeftShift; MM; So I need 7 steps or in other words I must press the key for 7 times. When I use the HP49G by RPN I don't understand your way. 1) 8; clear 2) RightShift; clear 3) 6 (UNITS); clear 4) F2 (LENGTH); I must go to Lenght by pressing key. It's the second in the list 5) OK or ENTER; 6) M; I'm happy! it's the first in the list 7) OK or ENTER; Now I have press the keys for 7 times and I in the middle of the converting. LeftShift-F3 (mm) (You have the correct result on the stack) I dont't undestand what you mean then, because after step 7) the unit men.9f is closed. Hans Joachim (.de) F1 ( > m) LeftShift-F3 (mm) You have the correct result on the stack Hans Joachim (.de) > Hans Joachim Klotz ha scritto nel > maybe I'm stupid, I have HP49G for 5 days. > To convert a value with units (8 m to ? mm) I need 7 steps by HP48GX. > To convert a value with units (8 m to ? mm) I need 21 steps by HP49G. > In RPN mode I must carry out by HP49G. Sorry I can't really understand... do you use HP49G in RPN? If so > converting should be simple... 8 RightShift-6 (UNITS) F2 (LENGTH) F1 ( > m) LeftShift-F3 (mm) You have the correct result on the stack Maybe I haven't understood the question.. if so my apologies... try to > explain in other words... > Kickaha > ==== Hans Joachim Klotz ha scritto nel >Something about units> My apologies... I assumed you use HP49 in soft-menu mode, flag 117 set. Anyway I see you already fixed that.... ==== I can use by HP49G for units the same mode as the HP48 mode by Flag 117. I read this at the moment in the handbock!! Hans Joachim (.de) ==== flag 117. Oh that is the best tip. thanks! be sure to understand http://www.anti-matrix.net ==== > maybe I'm stupid, I have HP49G for 5 days. > To convert a value with units (8 m to ? mm) I need 7 steps by HP48GX. To convert a value with units (8 m to ? mm) I need 21 steps by HP49G. In RPN mode I must carry out by HP49G. 8; > arrow right; > minus; > alpha; > arrow left; > m; > Enter; > 1; > arrow right; > minus; > alpha; > arrow left; > m; > alpha; > arrow left; > m; > Enter; > arrow right; > units; > OK; > OK; RESULT 8000 mm. Is that true? Or make I mistakes? Hans Joachim (.de) Depends from which menu you start: units menu, your keystrokes would reduce to 4. Dont get discouraged ==== Hans Joachim Klotz schrieb im Newsbeitrag > maybe I'm stupid, I have HP49G for 5 days. > To convert a value with units (8 m to ? mm) I need 7 steps by HP48GX. To convert a value with units (8 m to ? mm) I need 21 steps by HP49G. There is a simpler way. Just add 0mm to 8m to get the meters converted to mm. This trick works also for other consistent units. In RPN mode I must carry out by HP49G. 8; > arrow right; > minus; > alpha; > arrow left; > m; > Enter; > 1; > arrow right; > minus; > alpha; > arrow left; > m; > alpha; > arrow left; > m; > Enter; > arrow right; > units; > OK; > OK; RESULT 8000 mm. Is that true? Or make I mistakes? Hans Joachim (.de) ==== Where on the web can I find the plug-in ROM and RAM cartridges for my 48GX? Craig ==== X > Also, I have done Jacobi and Gauss-Seidel programs myself. If you > mines. I also have done other programs about linear equation solving > (Gauss with pivoting, Doolitle decomposition ...), linear programming > (Simplex) and eigenvalues. Armando Serrano. Well put them all together (with documentation) and post to www.hpcalc.org ==== Hey everyone. New to the group..... Quick question - I recently purchased a Chotkeh (sp?) Mechanical Engineering PE Exam Application Card for the HP 48GX/SX. Long story short, it's been 12 years or so since I bought the calc, and 8 since I have been out of school. Need to pass my PE this time around and wanted some help remembering equations. Then I find out it's not fully compatible with the SX - not enough memory, or something - but I can keep pulling out of port 1 and into port 2 if I want. I seem to remember having memory cards at some point that can be merged with the calc memory. Would this be a possible solution other than popping the card out of slots 1 & 2? It seems like a nice program so far, too. Kinda annoying. -- Dan Hosek (remove 'remove' to reach me direct) ==== I'm not sure if I got it right, but... > Quick question - I recently purchased a Chotkeh (sp?) Mechanical > Engineering PE Exam Application Card for the HP 48GX/SX. Long story short, it's been 12 years or so since I bought the calc, and 8 > since I have been out of school. Need to pass my PE this time around and > wanted some help remembering equations. Then I find out it's not fully compatible with the SX - not enough > memory, or something - but I can keep pulling out of port 1 and into port > 2 if I want. > That's possible, if the PE application creates large data structures. Or did you try to copy its contents to RAM? This is not the way for HP-48 application cards, since those application pacs are designed to run from the card directly. BTW: The SX has 32K RAM built-in, the GX has 128K built-in. > I seem to remember having memory cards at some point that can be merged > with the calc memory. Would this be a possible solution other than > popping the card out of slots 1 & 2? > *RAM* cards can be merged. If you have an 128K RAM card, regardless if in port 1 or 2, you can merge the appriorate port with main memory. You can even merge both ports if you have RAM cards in both ports. This applies to the SX only, the GX can only merge port 1. Raymond ==== I'm not sure if I got it right, > but... Quick question - I recently purchased a Chotkeh (sp?) Mechanical > Engineering PE Exam Application Card for the HP 48GX/SX. > Long story short, it's been 12 years or so since I bought the calc, > and 8 since I have been out of school. Need to pass my PE this time > around and wanted some help remembering equations. > Then I find out it's not fully compatible with the SX - not enough > memory, or something - but I can keep pulling out of port 1 and into > port 2 if I want. > That's possible, if the PE application creates large data structures. > Or did you try to copy its contents to RAM? > This is not the way for HP-48 application cards, > since those application pacs are designed to run from the card > directly. BTW: The SX has 32K RAM built-in, the GX has 128K built-in. I seem to remember having memory cards at some point that can be > merged with the calc memory. Would this be a possible solution other > than popping the card out of slots 1 & 2? > *RAM* cards can be merged. > If you have an 128K RAM card, regardless if in port 1 or 2, > you can merge the appriorate port with main memory. > You can even merge both ports if you have RAM cards in both ports. > This applies to the SX only, the GX can only merge port 1. > Raymond Yes, it has to do with the large data structures and the 128k. My question then becomes, if I can locate a 128k data card (currently I do not possess one, I only have 2 32k data cards from way back) and merge it, would this possibly allow for full functionality of this particular application card? -- Dan Hosek (remove 'remove' to reach me direct) ==== Dan Hosek schrieb im Newsbeitrag >[..] > Yes, it has to do with the large data structures and the 128k. My question then becomes, if I can locate a 128k data card (currently I > do not possess one, I only have 2 32k data cards from way back) and merge > it, would this possibly allow for full functionality of this particular > application card? > With a 128K RAM card in port 1, you can increase your calc's main memory to a bit less than 160KB, since the other port will be occupied by the application card. For most HP-48 applications this amount of free memory should suffice. The extreme way would be to use the merged 128K card, copy the contents of the application card into main RAM, then replacing the PE card with another 128K RAM card, and merge that card, too. This way you would have the maximum online RAM of nearly 288KB minus the byte count for the PE application itself. However, normally the first method with one additional 128K card should work. Raymond ==== before answering... may I ask what ROM do you have installed? Qith ROM 1.19-6 I hae the following behaviour: > Question 1) When i do (at my HP49G) the following (i don't type sum and infinity, > just here...): sum(k=0, infinity, 0.5^k) With flag 21 set: Written as this (note the 0.5) and evaluating from exact mode I receive a question to switch mode into numeric and then an overflow error. In numeric the calc quite immediately display the overflow error msg. With flag 21 clear: It seems the calc counts forever but after pressing the cancel key I have the correct result on the stack which is, in fact a strange behaviour... If I write sum(k=0, infinity, (1/2)^k) the calc evaluates correctly. > Question 2) How do i factorize (if it's possible)?: > 1 / (X^2 -2*X +1) If i mark the denumerator in the equationeditor and press FACTO > my calculator responds with: Kickaha ==== > before answering... may I ask what ROM do you have installed? > Qith ROM 1.19-6 I hae the following behaviour: I also use ROM 1.19-6 // Jocke ==== Jyx ha scritto nel messaggio before answering... may I ask what ROM do you have installed? > Qith ROM 1.19-6 I hae the following behaviour: I also use ROM 1.19-6 mmmm.. this is in fact strange... same ROM and same flag settings and differente behaviour... could you pls post your entire flag settings? Any lib that holds commands instead of CAS? I'm not very experienced on undercover operations with HP49G but I can try to look deeper in the problem... hoping someone more skilled will partecipate in the discussion... Anyway try an ON+F3 or an ON+F3-Backspace (don't attach libraries while booting). Kickaha ==== > http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/cmdsmenu.zip > If that list is not up to date, lemme know. Thanx. > -Joe- > The TAB's are from the Statistical Library 2289 menu list. > GREY * you can use to give a GREY at command line It's already in the list. > PARTFRAC * this is a real mistake It's in there too. Perhaps you have an old list? The date at the top of > maybe even the SysRPL commands from 2057 menu... Again, I'll add 'em when they get some documentation. If any already exists, please let us all know. Meanwhile, here's my latest versions of everything: http://holyjoe.net/cure/hp49gcat.txt http://holyjoe.net/cure/menus.txt http://holyjoe.net/cure/newshift.txt http://holyjoe.net/cure/newtypes.txt http://holyjoe.net/cure/main.txt -Joe- ==== X > It's in there too. Perhaps you have an old list? The date at the top of X > Meanwhile, here's my latest versions of everything: http://holyjoe.net/cure/hp49gcat.txt > http://holyjoe.net/cure/menus.txt > http://holyjoe.net/cure/newshift.txt > http://holyjoe.net/cure/newtypes.txt > http://holyjoe.net/cure/main.txt X I really did have an old list, bacause my back-up system was a little out-dated. I seem to have the infamous MS Windows Virus on my PC...;-) ==== couldnt find anything their.. thanks anyways ==== > Can I make a function that accepts literal strings as argumnets Yes, you can. I've just figured out how to do it. This is the source code of an HP38G sample library that contains the command LEN, which returns the length of a string. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- xROMID 702 ASSEMBLE =AtUserStack EQU #3D4A5 RPL EXTERNAL xLEN ASSEMBLE CON(1) 4 RPL xNAME LEN :: CK1&Dispatch THREE :: LEN$ UNCOERCE StoAns@Drp AtUserStack ; ; :: onestring !*triand 'Rapndit xLEN TrueTrue ; $ Returns the length of a string NULLNAME libcfg :: # 702 TOSRRP ; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The help string will be displayed by HELPWITH LEN in a message box: 5 rows of 15 chars max. LEN expects a string, which can be entered like the string for DISP, that is: LEN ABC12DEF -> 8 LEN ABC 12 DEF -> 8 LEN NoteText -> ? (num of chars in NoteText) LEN(NoteText) -> idem Note that quotes cannot be entered inside parenthesis, use the command notation instead. Several things to note: * The library id number must be greater than 701h or 1793d. * StoAns@Drp stores the result in the variable Ans, which is required. * AtUserStack is needed if you want the library to be erasable via LIB DEL (without the annoying Object In Use error). * Do you remember the XTT key bug on the HP38G? Detlef Mueller provided a workaround in his Skeleton Aplets 1.3 and 1.4, unfortunately the alternative command for XTT cannot be in a library whose romid is greater or equal to 700. (The 39G and 40G don't have the XTT bug). So, this workaround cannot be included in the source code above. My suggestion is to avoid the aplet at all, use only the library; to delete it, you can include a command that http://www.hpcc.org/V21N3/home.html Anyway, you should check that the library is not used by other aplets before attempting to delete it. examples. I plan to write a document describing how to handle strings on the HP38/39/40G calcs, with more details on the parser property, once I finish commenting the source code of the ticking clock aplet, soon available from the HPCC's website. HPCC #1046 ==== This is a lot for someone like me who have only read about SysRPL and haven't started programming yet. Some questions: What does =AtUserStack do? How do I fetch Ans? (I was trying some simple test with SYSEVAL) (to create a one char string from value in Ans:) ( Ans Coerce #>Chr Chr>$ Ans_Sto ) (as I havent found Ans yet I just tested with:) ( Null$ Ans_Sto@ ) (this worked - (should probably be StoAns@Drp...) end sidestep) The code after LEN starting with onestring is it for parsing? The help string is it found by the system scanning for the end of the code after LEN? When I tried to understand the ApletFrame source there was a lot of things like this that is very hard to understand... Is the CK1&Dispatch used by the parser to know the type of argument? This is also something that I need to figure out how the parser knows the number of arguments for a function. Does LEN work in a program? What does StoAns@Drp and StoAns@ do? If they do what I think they do why store_and_fetch? Is impossible to make a function like STRING(Text)? What is the command notation? I thought that if one can't make a function like STRING a command like: ->STRING Ans;Text or ->STRING NoteText;Text might work like other commands (->GROB SUB etc.) If it is possible to add new string variables like: Text1 Text2 then much string handling can be done as it seems many built in functions work on strings (at least on the 38G): NoteText+NoteText Size(NoteText) Sub Ans;NoteText;1;1 NoteText==NoteText also strings can be placed in lists like: NoteText|>L1(1) Why is it possible to do: Sub Ans;NoteText;1;1 but not: Sub L1(1);NoteText;1;1 If you make some string variables (like NoteText) will this work then: SUB Text1;NoteText;1;1 ->STRING Text1;Text2*3more text Ronny ==== > What does =AtUserStack do? I used it to clear the last command name saved, thus 0LASTOWDOB! suffices. It's important if you want to delete the aplet pressing LIB, selecting the aplet and then DEL. If you do not clear that, the error Object In Use occurs, but then this error has just cleared the reference to the library, and now it can be deleted. But as I said, I think it's better not to use an aplet, just the library as Martin Lang did with his LIB1540. If there's no aplet, it means that the user cannot delete it, so it's convenient to include a command in your library to do it. For example, something like this: ASSEMBLE CON(1) 4 RPL xNAME BYE1794 :: AtUserStack ' :: # 702 PurgeLib# ; ( PurgeLib# is at 27822 ) TOTEMPOB COLA_EVAL ; :: ( simple parser info for a command with no arguments ) 'Rapndit xBYE TrueTrue ; $ Purges library 1794 ( help string ) > How do I fetch Ans? You can do DoInCalcCxt LastBut0 > The code after LEN starting with onestring is it for parsing? Correct. > The help string is it found by the system scanning for the end of the > code after LEN? Not exactly. The nibble before the command (that '4') tells the system that the command has a help string, always placed after the parser data. Remember that this is for libs > 1793 (1792 & 1793 are built-in libs). > Is the CK1&Dispatch used by the parser to know the type of argument? > This is also something that I need to figure out how the parser > knows the number of arguments for a function. Please bear in mind that I am talking about *special* commands. You asked for a way to handle strings, which entails using that kind of commands, but this does not mean that all commands have to be written thus. Make sure you read and understand these more basic docs: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp39/pc/advapletprgrm.zip http://www.hpcalc.org/viewzip.php?id=1743&file=RPLMAN.DOC (Chapter 14: Checking Arguments) > Does LEN work in a program? Of course :) > What does StoAns@Drp and StoAns@ do? The former stores the result/output of your command into the variable Ans and then drops that result. When your command finishes, Ans is automatically retrieved if you are in home: if it isn't dropped, it appears twice. The latter does not drop the result. > Is impossible to make a function like STRING(Text)? > What is the command notation? AFAIK, quotes cannot be included inside parenthesis. But that's not a problem. On this calc, the distinction between command and function is not important: for example you can enter either SYSEVAL 171591 or SYSEVAL(171591). I called the former the command notation, i.e. STRING Text (Maybe I should use the word function all the time instead of command, if we take functions as commands allowable in algebraics... Anyway, why not call them just rom pointers? :) > I thought that if one can't make a function like STRING a command > like: > ->STRING Ans;Text > or > ->STRING NoteText;Text > might work like other commands (->GROB SUB etc.) Such a command can be written, of course, LEN was just a simple example. In fact, I plan to write a complete (or should I say compleat? :) string handling lib: SUB, POS, HEAD, TAIL, and so on. I hope to write it with Martin Lang, as I know he also wants to add such routines to his lib, using > Why is it possible to do: > Sub Ans;NoteText;1;1 > but not: > Sub L1(1);NoteText;1;1 SUB partly works for strings, because it's the same SUB that is on the 48. To fully support strings, it should be rewritten. > If you make some string variables (like NoteText) will this work then: > SUB Text1;NoteText;1;1 > ->STRING Text1;Text2*3more text I played with the idea of creating a new set of vars: S1 .. S0, (well, I should use another letter, S1 to S5 are the symbolic vars) but it was soon abandoned because there are already string variables: they're called notes! Here's more sample code: ASSEMBLE CON(1) 4 RPL xNAME RCL :: CK1&Dispatch THREE :: $>ID RclUserNot ( RclUserNot is at C1026 ) ?SKIP SETNONEXTERR StoAns@Drp ; ; :: filename !*triand 'Rapndit xRCL TrueTrue ; $ Recalls a note as a string RCL works in several ways: RCL MyNote, RCL MyNote and RCL 'MyNote' would return the contents of MyNote (in fact RCL would store the contents into Ans, only) The quotes are required if your note's name has certain chars: RCL My Note would recall a note called My Note. Hope this helps, I look forward to seeing your first aplet, Ronny! HPCC #1046 ==== Not exactly. The nibble before the command (that '4') tells the system > that the command has a help string, always placed after the parser data. > Remember that this is for libs > 1793 (1792 & 1793 are built-in libs). Where do I find info on the bits in this nibble? > AFAIK, quotes cannot be included inside parenthesis. But that's not a problem. > On this calc, the distinction between command and function is not important: > for example you can enter either SYSEVAL 171591 or SYSEVAL(171591). I called > the former the command notation, i.e. STRING Text If STRING(Text) could be used then: STRING(ABC)+2*5+STRING(DEF) would be ok - I dont think this is ok: STRING ABC + 2*5 + STRING DEF or ist it? This would also make it possible to make something like: ->Hex(Hex->(A000)+(Hex->(100)) which would return the string A100. Hex-> makes hex string to number, ->Hex the other way. Better names would of course be needed! > I played with the idea of creating a new set of vars: S1 .. S0, (well, I should > use another letter, S1 to S5 are the symbolic vars) but it was soon abandoned > because there are already string variables: they're called notes! I would prefer string variables. Then the program is independent of the note(s). Is is difficult to make T1..T5 or String1..String5? This note function you made - can it create new notes or must the note exist already? > I look forward to seeing your first aplet, Ronny! I haven't had my HP38G for two months yet. Much to read and understand. Havent tried the compiler or my homemade comm cable either. Has been testing with SYSEVAL on the emulator. Also made a simple decompiler today to find Ans. I made this simple programs to create a string from a list: PROGRAM NULLSTR @ leaves empty string in ANS SYSEVAL 21951: SYSEVAL 535923 PROGRAM CHR2STR @ convets number in ANS to string in ANS SYSEVAL 361260: SYSEVAL 531633: SYSEVAL 531433: SYSEVAL 543418: SYSEVAL 535923 PROGRAM LIST2STR @ converts list in ANS to string in ANS CONCAT({0,Ans,I},L0)|>L0: RUN NULLSTR: Ans|>L0(1): FOR I=1 TO SIZE(L0(2)) STEP 1; L0(2):Ans(I): RUN CHR2STR: L0(1)+Ans|>L0(1): END: L0(3)|>I:L0(1): SUB L0;L0;4;Size(L0) In this program I use SYSEVAL 361260 to fetch Ans. Is this wrong - I found it while decompiling StoAns@Drp. If someone intents to test this on a calculator make a backup first!!! This always applies when playing with SYSEVAL:s. The emulator is safer. I hesitated a while before downloading it from: http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/utilities.htm on http://www.hphomeview.com/ I thought it would be difficult to install and setup but it was only to unzip and run the exe. No Install or setup required! Good doc also :) Many thanks to Colin and the others responsible! I recommend this to everyone who has one or have been thinking about buying a HP38/39/40G - it emulates all of these. When I start making libraries is there som way to get a library into the emulator directly? Ronny ==== News flash! We interrupt this program for news of a mathematical breakthrough! Is there any way to get 8 from 3 and 5? Yes! After years of profound cogitation, I have finally discovered the mathematical function that takes 3 and 5 as its inputs, and yields 8 as its output! Without further ado, here it is: 10^((32097*LOG( 5 )+18562*LOG( 3 ))/34649) = 8 ... to 12 digits. We now return to the war, which is already in progress. -Joe- ==== > News flash! We interrupt this program for news of a mathematical > breakthrough! > No breakthroughs here, just some rarities, or at least overly-specialized programs turned into a puzzle. (a) What is the purpose of this program? << LOG 2 LOG / 2 RND > (b) What does this one do? Bonus question: where did that constant come from? << -> a b 'ABS(LOG(a/b)*3986.31371382)' ->NUM > -- in Toronto, Canada, home of useless trivia -- ==== Markwick scripsit: > (a) What is the purpose of this program? > << LOG 2 LOG / 2 RND > Log base 2, rounded to 2 digits, perhaps for a binary money system? > (b) What does this one do? Bonus question: where did > that constant come from? << -> a b 'ABS(LOG(a/b)*3986.31371382)' ->NUM > The constant is the log of 10^1200 base 2 (approximately), or 1200/LOG(2). The program tells how many digits are in |a-b|^1200. Do I win a cookie? -Joe- ==== > Markwick scripsit: > Leapin' Lizards! The ink wasn't even dry on those pixels when you guys got (almost) perfect answers. a while and the books always talked about lighting ratios (make the main to fill a ratio of 3:1). Yes, well, how do I set the camera? The program takes the ratio as a single real and returns the f-stop, so 3:1 is 1.58, or 1 1/2 stops. Nobody noticed the embarrassing error, which (of *course*) I didn't notice until after. I had copied the constant out of a book without checking, and it's slightly wrong. It should be the reciprocal of the log of the 12th root of 2, or 3986.31369011. Hope nobody tuned their church organ to the other number! I seem to have invented a different breed of mini-challenge - you start with the program and have to figure out what it does (mind you, a lot of the shareware on hpcalc is like that). ==== Markwick escriben: > I seem to have invented a different breed of mini-challenge > - you start with the program and have to figure out what it > does (mind you, a lot of the shareware on hpcalc is like that). GREAT idea! A sort of Convoluted RPL Contest. I love it! Spaghetti code in a structured language! Yowza! -Joe- <435f61d8.0301302009.416b2173@posting.google.com> ==== In message , Joseph K. Horn > Markwick escriben: > I seem to have invented a different breed of mini-challenge > - you start with the program and have to figure out what it > does (mind you, a lot of the shareware on hpcalc is like that). GREAT idea! A sort of Convoluted RPL Contest. I love it! Spaghetti code >in a structured language! Yowza! You mean something a bit like The International Obfuscated C Code Contest but for RPL? This one's my favourite http://www.de.ioccc.org/1988/phillipps.c -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== > (a) What is the purpose of this program? << LOG 2 LOG / 2 RND > 2^n. The program returns n. > (b) What does this one do? Bonus question: where did that constant > come from? << -> a b 'ABS(LOG(a/b)*3986.31371382)' ->NUM > You seem to like music ;-) The above program calculates how many cents large an interval is, given the pitch ratio a/b - the constant is 1200/LOG(2), although the last digit is wrong in your formula. * For those of you who don't play around with frequencies and music, the two terms is explained like this; A musical interval is the distance between any two pitches in perceived pitch-space - an octave for example. A cent equals 1/100th of a half-step, while an half-step is the smallest interval between two notes on a piano. There are 12 half-steps in an octave, and so one octave is equal to 1200 cents. ==== > You seem to like music ;-) Yes, indeed, especially the history of different temperament systems and how we ended up with equal-tempered. I once tried to get Joe interested in it, and I could hear the yawns all the way from California. :-) > last digit The last four, actually. ==== > Yes, indeed, especially the history of different temperament > systems and how we ended up with equal-tempered. > I once tried to get Joe interested in it, and I could hear the > yawns all the way from California. :-) Bach, umbug! I was well tempered about it the whole time! -Joe- Clavier.9fbung means Keyboard .9fbung -- Peter Schikele <435f61d8.0301302013.2f87b633@posting.google.com> ==== In message , Joseph K. Horn > Yes, indeed, especially the history of different temperament > systems and how we ended up with equal-tempered. > I once tried to get Joe interested in it, and I could hear the > yawns all the way from California. :-) Bach, umbug! I was well tempered about it the whole time! Joe gave up music when they threatened to test his canticles. :-) -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== I am now completely conviced that you are seriously twisted! :-) > News flash! We interrupt this program for news of a mathematical > breakthrough! Is there any way to get 8 from 3 and 5? Yes! After years of profound > cogitation, I have finally discovered the mathematical function that takes 3 > and 5 as its inputs, and yields 8 as its output! Without further ado, here > it is: 10^((32097*LOG( 5 )+18562*LOG( 3 ))/34649) = 8 ... to 12 digits. We now return to the war, which is already in progress. -Joe- ==== > 10^((32097*LOG( 5 )+18562*LOG( 3 ))/34649) = 8 Funny thing, when I use a Ti-89 for the above, I get an answer of infinity... I do it on my 49g and I get 8. ... Now, which one to believe... the answers are so close... (in approximate mode ti89 returns 8. as well, but in the default modes of auto and exact, infinity is always the result) -- Al ==== > I am now completely conviced that you are seriously > twisted! :-) > Funny thing, when I use a Ti-89 for the above, I get > an answer of infinity... I do it on my 49g and I get 8. ... Both are right. Infinity is just an 8 that's been 90-degrees twisted. Seriously. -Joe- ==== > Funny thing, when I use a Ti-89 for the above, I get > an answer of infinity... > I do it on my 49g and I get 8. ... Both are right. Infinity is just an 8 that's been 90-degrees twisted. > Seriously. The question is, why would it twist it 90 degrees? I don't get many answers written vertically. -- Al ==== **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** HI Joseph ! Isn't 3 + 5 = 8 easier ? :-) Demo Fight the spam, click on the link! http://www.hostedscripts.com/scripts/antispam.html Fight Spam! Click Here! Joseph K. Horn p.92.8ae v diskusn.92m p[CapitalThorn].92sp.9evku > News flash! We interrupt this program for news of a mathematical > breakthrough! Is there any way to get 8 from 3 and 5? Yes! After years of profound > cogitation, I have finally discovered the mathematical function that takes 3 > and 5 as its inputs, and yields 8 as its output! Without further ado, here > it is: 10^((32097*LOG( 5 )+18562*LOG( 3 ))/34649) = 8 ... to 12 digits. We now return to the war, which is already in progress. -Joe- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ==== ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????[CapitalYAcute]???? ? ???????????????????? ==== >Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either >www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? If not, it's merely a French >Connection problem. Ok, I've moved the whole kit and kaboodle to a new web hosting company (pair.com), and it seems MUCH faster than it ever was. Hopefully it'll be universally available now (or at least planetarily). New web address: http://holyjoe.net (reorganized into folders) -Joe- ==== I can finally reach your website from the Netherlands without problems. Thanx, Arnold >Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either >www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? If not, it's merely a French >Connection problem. Ok, I've moved the whole kit and kaboodle to a new web hosting company >(pair.com), and it seems MUCH faster than it ever was. Hopefully it'll be >universally available now (or at least planetarily). New web address: http://holyjoe.net (reorganized into folders) -Joe- > ==== i can access it too from the czech republic. nice :) I can finally reach your website from the Netherlands without > problems. -- fuf (fuf@mageo.cz) <8bCX9.6585$Sv3.647345@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3JJZ9.128$8A1.94307@reader1.news.jippii.net> ==== >Anybody *other* than in France having trouble accessing either >www.holyjoe.net or www.godaddy.com? If not, it's merely a French >Connection problem. Ok, I've moved the whole kit and kaboodle to a new web hosting company > (pair.com), and it seems MUCH faster than it ever was. Hopefully it'll be > universally available now (or at least planetarily). That works OK for me now... -- ----- > Et puis qu'est-ce-que tu viens faire sur fufe ? Tenter de discuter avec des gens un peu iontelligents. Mais ils sont rares sur fufe. -+- Dr B in GNU : Ion fait s'qu'ion peut avec s'qu'ion a. -+- ==== > Ok, I've moved the whole kit and kaboodle to a new web hosting company > (pair.com), and it seems MUCH faster than it ever was. Hopefully it'll be > universally available now (or at least planetarily). I don't think the problem was your isp but rather the nasty sql virus that's running around atacking web servers and the main dns machines. Steve Sousa <8bCX9.6585$Sv3.647345@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3JJZ9.128$8A1.94307@reader1.news.jippii.net> <1043891953.631901@newsfront2> ==== Ok, I've moved the whole kit and kaboodle to a new web hosting company > (pair.com), and it seems MUCH faster than it ever was. Hopefully it'll be > universally available now (or at least planetarily). I don't think the problem was your isp but rather the nasty sql virus that's > running around atacking web servers and the main dns machines. I really don't think the root DNS servers and the .net DNS servers ran Microsoft SQL Server... ;) -- ----- Un forum peut r.8epondre .88 plusieurs besoins .88 la fois Ici, le groupe des d.8ebutants d.8epasse en nombre le groupe des utilisateur middle-class ce qui provoque in.8evitablement des tensions. -+- EF - Guide du Neuneu d'Usenet - La lutte des middle classes -+- ==== My 49G freezes for a while when I try to simplify the following equation using the SIMPLIFY command: sqr(sin(x))/tan(x)*cos(x)^2-pi^i Where sqr is the square root symbol, pi is the greek letter pi, and i is imaginary number. Any ideas? EVAL works, but SIMPLIFY does't. -- Al ==== > What is RE()? Real part. /Daniel ==== I agree some form of equation writer that mimicks how we work on paper is the ideal form of entry, with RPN for the comands. Again as always this is just my opinion. Stan > Actually in my experience, RPN has worked better for me on complex > calculations. On my TI-89, I'll enter an expression and use lot's of > parenthesis and soon I'm scrolling to the right to get the whole expression > entered; invariably, I mess up the count and end up wasting a lot of time > trying to scroll back and forth to find where things are unbalanced. This > can be so darn frustrating. After a while you just want a better way and > that's what RPN delivers. And that's what the EQW delivers, too. Personally, I used RPN only to >be able to see how the expression was being built up; now that I have >EQW, I don't use RPN much any more. And no, it's not that I don't know >how to use it (after all, I used it for quite a while before EQW was >released). ==== > It is VERY easy to calculate these, and > duplicate them onto the stack for later re-use in RPN. It is nearly > impossible to do that in alg. (I'm ignoring STO/RCL work-arounds.) Actually there is the ans() function. The funny with thing algebra notation is that people will use rpn without knowing it. If a numerator or denominator is really large I'll divide it up into sepearte calculations. -Samuel ==== Would you buy an HP48GX today? Is it too slow? Or would you buy a 49g? (If cost wasn't a factor) Is there anything better for University Sciences/Engineering? Al... ==== Funny thing here in the Netherlands.... The box had Dutch writing on it, a Dutch User Guide, Spanish Quick Guide, and English Advanced User Guide in it.. I'm working my way though one of the English PDF User Guides now. Anyone care to comment on the best english book to go along with this calculator? Al... ==== Definitely the two volumes by Urroz. Worth every penny!! ______________________ Science and Engineering Mathematics with the HP 49 G - Volumes 1 & 2 ____________________ www.greatunpublished.com I am not affiliated with Dr Urroz or this company in any way. Ask around - these books are invaluable. Funny thing here in the Netherlands.... The box had Dutch writing on it, a > Dutch User Guide, Spanish Quick Guide, and English Advanced User Guide in > it.. I'm working my way though one of the English PDF User Guides now. Anyone care to comment on the best english book to go along with this > calculator? Al... ==== and you might want to set your homepage to hpcalc.org ;-) > Definitely the two volumes by Urroz. Worth every penny!! > ______________________ > Science and Engineering Mathematics with the HP 49 G - Volumes 1 & 2 > ____________________ www.greatunpublished.com I am not affiliated with Dr Urroz or this company in any way. > Ask around - these books are invaluable. Funny thing here in the Netherlands.... The box had Dutch writing on it, > a > Dutch User Guide, Spanish Quick Guide, and English Advanced User Guide in > it.. I'm working my way though one of the English PDF User Guides now. Anyone care to comment on the best english book to go along with this > calculator? Al... ==== I have a TI-89, a 48GX, and a 49G. Trying to avoid too much of my own personal bias, I grab the 49G everytime. I often consider purchasing a spare 49G, as I am worried about what will happen when it finally dies. I don't feel the same need with the other two. The keyboard is stiff, but you get used to it. A few quick flag changes, and the 49G gets me smoothly through engineering studies. I advise that whatever you get, spend LOTS of time mastering it. You will have such an advantage in your university courses if you spend time practicing with your HP. Much of my college time is/was spent with my textbook, my 49G, and the Urroz books open side-by-side on my desk. Either calculator is powerful enough to get you through your doctoral studies (some say too powerful). I have had professors who raise their eyebrows at the 49G, but no one has ever denied its use to me. Many people in this newsgroup have claimed some instructors bar them from using the 49G. Notably, I've actually had a professor not allow my TI-89, but he said my 49G should be okay... :-) This was due to his familiarity with TI models, and total ignorance of the HP line (not necessarily a disadvantage). The CAS and Matrix writing of the 49G have gained me valuable points on exams by letting me check my answers. This quickly identifies small errors in your work, and a non-CAS system just couldn't do it. If we are comparing both calculators out of the box, the CAS on the 49G is a clear winner to me. Expanding your 48GX nullifies some of that (but takes its price up). With some good books and this newsgroup, you will never run out of support on either model. It's hard for me to believe that either calc is on the way out, as I always have up to the minute info from this group. Sorry for rambling. My $0.02. - Mitch > Would you buy an HP48GX today? Is it too slow? Or would you buy a 49g? (If cost wasn't a factor) Is there anything better for University Sciences/Engineering? Al... ==== > Would you buy an HP48GX today? Is it too slow? Or would you buy a 49g? (If cost wasn't a factor) Is there anything better for University Sciences/Engineering? I have a 49g, so I would buy a 48gx. It seems more practical to use for number crunching and doing calculations because of its better keyboard and other hardware features. A 48gx could replace my 49g if I put more memory on it and install AGL48, erable, and all those other goodies. -- Al ==== > Would you buy an HP48GX today? Is it too slow? Or would you buy a 49g? Having both a 48g+ (48gx without the expansion slot) and a 49g, if I had to do it over I'd buy a 48gx. The keyboard on the 49g really is bad enough to make a difference. > Is there anything better for University Sciences/Engineering? Nope. Neill McKay ==== > Would you buy an HP48GX today? Is it too slow? Or would you buy a 49g? (If cost wasn't a factor) Is there anything better for University Sciences/Engineering? I have a 49g, so I would buy a 48gx. It seems more practical to use for number crunching and doing calculations because of its better keyboard and other hardware features. A 48gx could replace my 49g if I put more memory on it and install AGL48, erable, and all those other goodies. -- Al ==== > I couldn't see a true engineer using a TI, IMO. And yet lots of engineers use 'em :-) -- Bhuvanesh ==== > I couldn't see a true engineer using a TI, IMO. And yet lots of engineers use 'em :-) Yup, it's just my biased opinion that HP is the engineering calc. I recently met a high-speed circuit design engineer, very scholarly guy. He uses a 48gx. He also works for Hewlett Packard. -- Al ==== > I couldn't see a true engineer using a TI, IMO. And yet lots of engineers use 'em :-) At our university only because some idiot at HP told one of our professors that HP was not going to produce any more new calculators of the HP41 or HP48GX type.( What he should have said was that HP was not going to design any new calculators. This was about 7 or 8 recommended that TI calculators should be bought by all engineering and science majors. This was not really s big problem since TI had have to buy a new calc. Before that every engineering student and most professors had a 41 or 48 strapped to their belts Harold A. Climer Dept. of Physics,Geology and Astronomy U. Tennessee at Chattanooga ==== > I have a 49g, so I would buy a 48gx. It seems more practical to use for > number crunching and doing calculations because of its better keyboard And what about a HP49G with the same keyboard quality as the HP48? I don't see how the 48G would be better at number crunching only... ==== I have a 49g, so I would buy a 48gx. It seems more practical to use for > number crunching and doing calculations because of its better keyboard And what about a HP49G with the same keyboard quality as the HP48? That would be a winner for me. I dearly miss the speed of my old HP41 keyboard. I don't see how the 48G would be better at number crunching only... > HP49 does suffer the slight penalty in speed due to the extra data types it can handle. Personaly I think the extra flexibility with the extra data types is worth the slight penalty. But if we're dreaming of an improved casing for the 49G why not dream of a slightly faster CPU. Even a simple doubling of speed would address 90% of the quibles and help shut-up the TI freaks. An IR port should only be introduced if it can be made compatible with all laptops. If I could find one I'd be tempted to get a 48GX but with the extra memory modules needed it would get costly. The 48G+ at 128kB just doesn't have the room for me. Stephen.N ==== IMO The menu structure on the 48 is much better for general science and engineering students, and that the 48 is better tool for this type work for a number other reasons. Sure, the 49 has a bunch more in terms of esoteric numeric stuff (it looks like somebody got really happy using Numerical Recipes (Press et al) ) that is more of interest to math majors and computer science types. I enjoy playing with my 49 but if I had to do it all over again, I would still stick with the 48--I use the 48 with things like Alg48 and SmartROM for real-world work. I have a 49g, so I would buy a 48gx. It seems more practical to use for > number crunching and doing calculations because of its better keyboard And what about a HP49G with the same keyboard quality as the HP48? If HP's considering producing a new 49 type machine with 48 type hardware, they need to give some real thought to the the ease of access to certain menus and commands, and not wasting keyboard space with redundant menus (while burying others), or silly key mapping, or trying to over accomodate algebraic entry (leave that for the 39/40). The 49's key and menu stucture is a bit sloppy for quick number crunching and usefullness (and poplarity?) of Keyman, Appsman and other similar programs support this. I don't see how the 48G would be better at number crunching only... It just is... many practicing engineers like myself would attest to that. > ==== > IMO The menu structure on the 48 is much better for general science and > engineering students, and that the 48 is better tool for this type work for > a number other reasons. Sure, the 49 has a bunch more in terms of esoteric > numeric stuff (it looks like somebody got really happy using Numerical > Recipes (Press et al) ) that is more of interest to math majors and computer > science types. I enjoy playing with my 49 but if I had to do it all over > again, I would still stick with the 48--I use the 48 with things like Alg48 > and SmartROM for real-world work. The HP49 has the same menu structure than the HP48. It just add some. All the original menus (MTH, PRG etc..) are there. Just wish the 49 would boot in RPN mode, get rid of the confusing algebraic and with soft-key menus only. I think only the bad HP49 keyboard makes a difference. All the HP48 can do, the HP49 will do it and even faster usually... ==== > I have a 49g, so I would buy a 48gx. It seems more practical to use for > number crunching and doing calculations because of its better keyboard And what about a HP49G with the same keyboard quality as the HP48? I have yet to see this, I find that I can input data much faster with a plastic keyboard. It does not make such a big difference, only in speed of input, but it is critical sometimes. I suppose that if you modify the hp48 enough, it essentially becomes a hp49g. It is just that not all users are able to modify it enough to recreate one. You need a link cable to load the software (if you cannot get it from another calculator) and memory cards if you want the additional memory. > I don't see how the 48G would be better at number crunching only... I must admit that there is more software available for the 48. However, I was only comparing the calcs in the out of the box state. And I did not say that the 48g would be better at number crunching only, only that that is one of its strong points against the 49g. There is also the infrared port and expandability that is lacking in the 49g that makes the 48gx more attractive in some ways. -- Al ==== it posted anywhere? If not, how would I go about doing it? Any chance of getting the source code? TIA, Jim ==== How do I manage the I/O options in the HP49, analogous to I/O on the 48? It doesn't seem to be documented. (or maybe I'm a blind old git....) Jim ==== www.hpcalc.org Jim F schrieb im Newsbeitrag > How do I manage the I/O options in the HP49, analogous to I/O > on the 48? It doesn't seem to be documented. (or maybe I'm a blind old > git....) > Jim ==== I've been there, but have found nothing in the HP docs about I/O on the 49, and searching hpcalc.org hasn't yielded anything either. How about another clue? Jim > www.hpcalc.org Jim F schrieb im Newsbeitrag > How do I manage the I/O options in the HP49, analogous to on the 48? It doesn't seem to be documented. (or maybe I'm a blind old > git....) > Jim ==== I think so. I have same effect on my HP48G when I press ON key for a long time. Vojtech Sazel jochen p.92se v diskusn.92m pr.92spevku when I turn ON the HP49G I can see for a short time vertically white > lines in the display. > Is that normal? > By my HP48 there is not so an effect. > Whats by your? Hans Joachim (Ger) --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). ==== if anyone is interested). It talks about a new HP scientific calc. I think its just junk but why would someone take the trouble? Here is My name is Cyrille de Br.8ebisson, I work for the HP Calculator division. Some of you may know my name as I was part of the Australian Calculator operation and was heavily involved in the development of the 49G, 39G and 40G as well HP is developing a new scientific calculator, and we would like to propose you to take part in this process as alpha and beta testers. I need to ask you to keep this information confidential, and if you are interested in participating in this program, or would like more information before taking a decision I would ask you to fill and return to me the attached Non Disclosure Agreement. If you sign this document, it means that you agree not to disclose anything about your involvement in this program for a duration of 2 years (but HP usually cancels such agreements at product launch). ==== You must be a TIborg or already employed by TI! Nobody wants you here destroying the hopes of this newsgroup for a better calc in the future! Go and swallow a TI92, hard to digest...if you catch my drift! !Demeter! ==== > You must be a TIborg or already employed by TI! > Nobody wants you here destroying the hopes of this > newsgroup for a better calc in the future! Go and > swallow a TI92, hard to digest...if you catch my drift! !Demeter! Destroying the hopes? Why? Come on now, Demeter. Does anybody believe that HP would abandon plans for a new calc, if somebody from the outside sings too early? We are way not so important, if we speak or not. Besides, what kind of company is that, that allows some people from the outside to participate in secrets, and seriously expects them to keep silent? Even CIA has lost that exopragmatic dream. We are humans, we talk, we talk too much, that's all. *And*, what kind of fashion is that, to decide that some persons outside HP, should know, while other shouldn't? Who decides this? The great HP random name generator? I think the only not so good thing that the drunken master did, was that CdB has expilitly asked him not to tell anything anybody, so it was more misusing trust, and that with no bad intention at all? Haven't you ever be so happy, that you would like the whole world to know? I think that was a bit too hard for Cid, he wanted to just propagate his joy. Greetings, Nick. ==== > >You must be a TIborg or already employed by TI! >Nobody wants you here destroying the hopes of this >newsgroup for a better calc in the future! Go and >swallow a TI92, hard to digest...if you catch my drift! >!Demeter! Destroying the hopes? Why? Come on now, Demeter. Does anybody > believe that HP would abandon plans for a new calc, if somebody from > the outside sings too early? We are way not so important, if we > speak or not. Besides, what kind of company is that, that allows some people from > the outside to participate in secrets, and seriously expects them to > keep silent? Even CIA has lost that exopragmatic dream. We are humans, > we talk, we talk too much, that's all. *And*, what kind of fashion is that, to decide that some persons > outside HP, should know, while other shouldn't? Who decides this? The > great HP random name generator? I think the only not so good thing that the drunken master did, was > that CdB has expilitly asked him not to tell anything anybody, so it > was more misusing trust, and that with no bad intention at all? > Haven't you ever be so happy, that you would like the whole world to > know? > I think that was a bit too hard for Cid, he wanted to just propagate > his joy. Greetings, > Nick. Hell is full of people with good intentions. I know this may be a little harsh but when you consider that all we have as individuals is our honor and trust, those virtues can't be compromised. ==== Hell is full of people with good intentions. I know this may be a little > harsh but when you consider that all we have as individuals is our honor > and trust, those virtues can't be compromised. whatever we do in a big catalogue of sins. Where is forgiveness? Anyway, what happened happened. Let's move on. Greetings, Nick. ==== > Anyway, what happened happened. Let's move on. Yes, I'ld also say so, and btw: It was, a good news no matter what anybody says. So many people in here have been wishing that HP continues to make good calcs in the future, also, and then suddenly someone does a stupid thing by apparantly letting us into a socalled secret, but why should we be mad at him? HP can be mad at him. Not us :-) He's our friend, as I see the case and he should be treated like a friend :-) Let some guys at HP be mad at him, but it's not our problem :-) Perhaps he sees us more as his friends than HP, think it that way :-) > Greetings, > Nick. Same to you, Martin J. ==== Martin, Martin. Nice try! Every felon needs an advocat, but anybody revealing classified information will soon be cleaned off. A substitute AI program will continue to send news to this group according to the original writers pattern so that we would not be suspicious. Oh - no! I just revealed a clazzzz.... Anyway, what happened happened. Let's move on. > Yes, I'ld also say so, and btw: It was, a good news no matter what > anybody says. So many people in here have been wishing that HP continues to make > good calcs in the future, also, and then suddenly someone does a > stupid thing by apparantly letting us into a socalled secret, but > why should we be mad at him? HP can be mad at him. Not us :-) He's our friend, as I see the case and he should be treated like a > friend :-) Let some guys at HP be mad at him, but it's not our problem > :-) Perhaps he sees us more as his friends than HP, think it that way :-) > Greetings, > Nick. Same to you, > Martin J. > ==== while holding the 49g i thought wouldnt it be great if the put some buttons on the side? That way when your holding it you put those finger to use and speed up calculations. be sure to understand http://www.anti-matrix.net ==== > swallow a TI92, hard to digest...if you catch my drift! Alimentary, my dear Watson! -Joe- ==== > if anyone is interested). It talks about a new HP scientific calc. I > think its just junk but why would someone take the trouble? Here is > Not only you blew up all your chances of working with HP ever again if there was any beta testing on its way, but I would also say that you're A moron. I would say it twice actually. When people send you message, they do so in confidence. You're unexcusable behavior (even if legally you can do it) is why in today's life lawyers have to take into account every single details of day to day living and people like you prevent things to get better HP has in the past contacted people to test their product. I did so when I people are like you and usually this practice can work. You just need one asshole to blew up the whole thing and stop companies in involving people for future development project. You idiot PS: you idiot. you Bush! (ok this may be a bit too hard :) ==== > HP has in the past contacted people to test their product. I did so when I > people are like you and usually this practice can work. You just need one > asshole to blew up the whole thing and stop companies in involving people > for future development project. You idiot > PS: you idiot. you Bush! (ok this may be a bit too hard :) Well, I would say that the idiocy very clearly lies on the side of the kind of nitwit that sends letters with presumably confidential information to complete strangers. Anybody who is naive enough to do that deserves whatever follows. -- Helen. ==== if anyone is interested). It talks about a new HP scientific calc. I > think its just junk but why would someone take the trouble? Here is > Not only you blew up all your chances of working with HP ever again if there > was any beta testing on its way, but I would also say that you're A moron. I > would say it twice actually. When people send you message, they do so in confidence. You're unexcusable > behavior (even if legally you can do it) is why in today's life lawyers have > to take into account every single details of day to day living and people > like you prevent things to get better HP has in the past contacted people to test their product. I did so when I > people are like you and usually this practice can work. You just need one > asshole to blew up the whole thing and stop companies in involving people > for future development project. You idiot > PS: you idiot. you Bush! (ok this may be a bit too hard :) That was surely no good thing to do, any you are right saying that, but still... sometimes the joy is so great that we simply want to share that with other people. I am sure that the Cid didn't have any bad intentions, it was more that he (she?) thought that we could be happy to know that, what Cid? Greetings, Nick. ==== I hate to say it but that really was a dumb move...u do know that Cyrille posts on these boards, right..... ==== I do! Cyrille, if you happen to need a replacement tester, I know someone who can keep his mouth shut... (me me me) > I hate to say it but that really was a dumb move...u do know that > Cyrille posts on these boards, right..... ==== Either this is a nasty hoax or you just shot down your chance to do beta Greg S > if anyone is interested). It talks about a new HP scientific calc. I > think its just junk but why would someone take the trouble? Here is My name is Cyrille de Br.8ebisson, I work for the HP Calculator > division. > Some > of you may know my name as I was part of the Australian Calculator > operation > and was heavily involved in the development of the 49G, 39G and 40G as > well HP is developing a new scientific calculator, and we would like to > propose > you to take part in this process as alpha and beta testers. I need to ask you to keep this information confidential, and if you > are > interested in participating in this program, or would like more > information > before taking a decision I would ask you to fill and return to me the > attached Non Disclosure Agreement. If you sign this document, it means that you agree not to disclose > anything > about your involvement in this program for a duration of 2 years (but > HP > usually cancels such agreements at product launch). > ==== > Either this is a nasty hoax or you just shot down your chance to do beta X Therefore there is no new calculator in progress BUT I will start the rumours now: HP will make a new RPN/Algebraic 50GX+ calculator with a 40MHz enhancent Saturn in low 1.8V It will work on a single AA cell and has no scrren cover but only a recessed screen. The keys resemble the 10BII keys and have a positive tactile feel and they are plastic, with silk screened labels on them. The psysical layout is similar to the 49G (or 39/40) and there will be a sister model 41G, which is an enhanced 40G Also the HP 48GX is renewed and all the models have now 2MB Flash memory but the 50G naturally has 4MB Flash. With the greater speed HP runs rings around the current TI HP comes will a special edition of the Urroz books TI-RUMOURS !!! TI will counter-strike the rebellians with a Death-Star approach: http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MCF5407&node Id=018rH3YTLC00M9 CPU has 220MHz and can fly rings around all the new HP Super-Saturn. There will be two models V-1 and H-1, the vertical and the horisontal model. H-1 has bigger screen and the soon to be released H-2 has color screen!! To save the costs TI incudes the manuals only in a CD, but offers a one A5 size sheet quick-start which helps the user to switch the calc on. The build in system is Waterloo Maple 8 Student version. Note: The needed AC/DC universal converter is sold separately. The Lion batteries last for several hours... ;-P ==== > The build in system is Waterloo Maple 8 Student version. What a terrible decision! That would be pretty stupid of TI. No, I'm not advocating putting Mathematica on such a device either... those are PC CAS's and are not designed for low-power, low-memory devices. -- Bhuvanesh ==== The build in system is Waterloo Maple 8 Student version. What a terrible decision! That would be pretty stupid of TI. No, I'm > not advocating putting Mathematica on such a device either... those > are PC CAS's and are not designed for low-power, low-memory devices. But Maple *was* already put in Cassiopeia and it is a low power, low memory, low everything device. Despite the fact that I still don't know where to get it, I would definitely buy it if I knew. Greetings, Nick. ==== I just tried the calculation (((((9^9)^9)^9)^9)^9) and the next morning I had the answer. How is that possible? The number has 28179 digits which makes it larger than 9E499, as far as I know. Then i tried this calculation. 9^(9^9), but i get an integer overflow. That doesn't make sense. Can someone please explain both problems to me? Michael ==== > I just tried the calculation (((((9^9)^9)^9)^9)^9) and the next > morning I had the answer. How is that possible? The number has 28179 digits which makes it larger than 9E499, as far > as I know. Then i tried this calculation. 9^(9^9), but i get an integer overflow. That doesn't make sense. Can someone please explain both problems to me? Michael It does make sense: a) (((((9^9)^9)^9)^9)^9) =9(9^5) =9^59049 which has 56348 digits (if I calculated right). b) 9^(9^9) =9^387420489 which is a v e r y large number and probably can't be handled by the 49G. AXel ==== > b) 9^(9^9) > =9^387420489 which is a v e r y large number and probably can't > be handled by the 49G. It can, if you've got 176 Meg of merged RAM, and a modified calculator that can address that much memory space. :-) Since x^y = 10^(LOG(x)*y), and 123.456 = 123 + 0.456, and 10^(x+y) = (10^x) * (10^y), we can therefore calculate: 9^387420489 = 10^(LOG(9)*387420489) = 10^(369693099.631570358743543...) = 10^(369693099 + 0.631570358743543...) = 10^ (0.631570358743543... + 369693099) = 10^(0.631570358743543...) * 10^369693099 = 4.281247731757... * 10^369693099 which is therefore an integer 369693100 digits long, starting with 428.... -Joe- ==== Ok that makes sense, but then on the other hand the HP49G can only calculate up to 9E499, as far as I know. Isn't 9^9^9^9^9^9 much bigger than that? How then is it possible for the calculator to display this number? Michael b) 9^(9^9) > =9^387420489 which is a v e r y large number and probably can't > be handled by the 49G. It can, if you've got 176 Meg of merged RAM, and a modified calculator that > can address that much memory space. :-) Since > x^y = 10^(LOG(x)*y), and > 123.456 = 123 + 0.456, and > 10^(x+y) = (10^x) * (10^y), > we can therefore calculate: 9^387420489 > = 10^(LOG(9)*387420489) > = 10^(369693099.631570358743543...) > = 10^(369693099 + 0.631570358743543...) > = 10^ (0.631570358743543... + 369693099) > = 10^(0.631570358743543...) * 10^369693099 > = 4.281247731757... * 10^369693099 > which is therefore an integer 369693100 digits long, starting with 428.... -Joe- ==== > Ok that makes sense, but then on the other hand the HP49G can only > calculate up to 9E499, as far as I know. Isn't 9^9^9^9^9^9 much bigger > than that? How then is it possible for the calculator to display this > number? It is a question of type the maximum for a real number is 9e499 whereas for a zint it is only limite by the amount of memory. -- ir. P.F.Geelhoed Delft University of Technology Laboratory for Aero & Hydrodynamics Leeghwaterstraat 21, 2628 CA Delft, The Netherlands +31-15-2786656 / +31-15-2782947 (fax) ==== > I just tried the calculation (((((9^9)^9)^9)^9)^9) and the next > morning I had the answer. How is that possible? The number has 28179 digits which makes it larger than 9E499, as far > as I know. Then i tried this calculation. 9^(9^9), but i get an integer overflow. 9^(9^9) is a really big number, like more than 60000 digits, a lot more. It's equal to 3^774840978 which becomes something like (approximately): 4.281247731.8710^(3.69693099.8710^8) See how the exponent of scientific notation needs to be displayed in scientific notation. If you see that, you know it's a big number. The calculation (((((9^9)^9)^9)^9)^9) starts off with a large base and does an exponent of 9 every time where as 9^(9^9) has a huge exponent, that's the critical part. For your (((((9^9)^9)^9)^9)^9) calculation I get actually 129744 digits using logarithms. 9^(9^9) appears to have 851249821 digits using this method. Please correct me if I'm wrong. -- Al ==== For your (((((9^9)^9)^9)^9)^9) calculation I get actually 129744 digits > using logarithms. 9^(9^9) appears to have 851249821 digits using this > method. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Using Logarithms I get: a) for (((((9^9)^9)^9)^9)^9): 9^5 * Log(9) = 56 347.1 ... which means 56348 digits. b) for 9^(9^9): (9^9) * Log(9) = 369 693 099.6 ... which means 369 693 100 digits. copyright by HP32Sii :-) Regard Axel. ==== Just a math question. How do you know that the log of a number equals the number of digits in that number? Does this work in every case? Derek Young ==== <56f94943.0302021040.5bc75be@posting.google.com>, > Just a math question. How do you know that the log of a number equals > the number of digits in that number? Does this work in every case? Derek Young LOG(1) = 0 LOG(10) = 1 LOG(100) = 2 Etc. In fact, 1 + FLOOR(LOG(N)) is the number of digits in non-negative integer N. ==== > Using Logarithms I get: a) for (((((9^9)^9)^9)^9)^9): > 9^5 * Log(9) = 56 347.1 ... which means 56348 digits. b) for 9^(9^9): > (9^9) * Log(9) = 369 693 099.6 ... which means 369 693 100 digits. Ok I did it a different way, I did Log(((((9^9)^9)^9)^9)^9) which gave me 1.297439140E5, and Log(9^(9^9)) which gave me 8.512498201E8. I even did it the same same way as you did above and got the same answers. I should have though of that, but it was like 3 am. I used Derive 5, btw. I should try it with Maple or something. Why are my results so much different from yours? -- Al ==== > Using Logarithms I get: > a) for (((((9^9)^9)^9)^9)^9): > 9^5 * Log(9) = 56 347.1 ... which means 56348 digits. > b) for 9^(9^9): > (9^9) * Log(9) = 369 693 099.6 ... which means 369 693 100 digits. Ok I did it a different way, I did Log(((((9^9)^9)^9)^9)^9) which > gave me 1.297439140E5, and Log(9^(9^9)) which gave me 8.512498201E8. I even did it the same same way as you did above and got the same > answers. I should have though of that, but it was like 3 am. I used Derive 5, btw. I should try it with Maple or something. > Why are my results so much different from yours? I don't understand Derive. It gives me 2.197224577 for log(9) when the answer is obviously 0.9542425094. Why is log the same as ln? Do base 10 logs no longer exist in Derive, only natural logs? Anyway, I don't think I'll be keeping Derive. It is nice in some ways, quite easy to use and all, but it feels like a TI... if you know what I mean. -- Al ==== > Ok I did it a different way, I did Log(((((9^9)^9)^9)^9)^9) which > gave me 1.297439140E5, and Log(9^(9^9)) which gave me 8.512498201E8. I even did it the same same way as you did above and got the same > answers. I should have though of that, but it was like 3 am. I used Derive 5, btw. I should try it with Maple or something. > Why are my results so much different from yours? Now I feel really stupid after reading what I posted, lol. Maybe I shouldn't be doing calculations, even simple ones in the middle of the night when I have a long trip the next morning in less than four hours. -- Al ==== I tried this. But I get the message : SOLVE Error - not exact System > what does that mean? What's my fault? Check that you are in exact mode *before* entering your function. (MODE -> CAS -> uncheck Approx ) ==== Your answer works perfect! It does exactly what I was searching for! Greetings, Stefan > Maybe this question makes it clearer/ more precise: > How can I find critical points of such a function: > f(x,y)=(x/2)-(x*y^2)+(9*y^2) The best way is to use the HESS function. In RPN mode: > enter your expression then LNAME to get the list of vars > then HESS SOLVE > Now you have the hessian matrix at level 2 and the list > of critical points found. To keep these points somewhere type DUP2 > and do SUBST to get the nature of the critical points: > this nature is given by the signature of the Hessian matrix > at the points, you can get the signature by applying the > SYLVESTER function to each matrix (in your example it > is not necessary but it could be for a more complex matrix) in > the list at level 1. Maybe you should make a little prog > << LNAME HESS SOLVE DUP2 SUBST > ==== The word is incorrect information, if that is so. False implies that I intended to mislead. which is not true. I went to the HP site as I did tonight and it is not available from HP on their Website. They have the 48 G but not the 49G. In any case, I have an unused 49G available for sale. > I have an mint condition, UNUSED, out of the box HP49G and separate > Connectivity Kit and all documentation along with the original packing > FOR > SALE. This may be a last chance thing as it is no longer available at > HP. False information. Will ship only to US. I purchased this because it was the only RPN calculator left besides the > 12C > but after reading the manual, I realized it would take too much of my time > to become proficient at. You can respond here with information that will allow me to contact you > directly. > Barry Shaklan, M.D. ==== I stand corrected. My English is not good enough to tell the difference, but now I know. > The word is incorrect information, if that is so. False implies that I > intended to mislead. which is not true. I went to the HP site as I did > tonight and it is not available from HP on their Website. They have the 48 > G but not the 49G. In any case, I have an unused 49G available for sale. ==== No Problem> I just went back to HP and did a 'complete' search in both the HPShopping area and in the entire Hp website and was unable to find an HP49G for sale. Besides a few 'how to use' references there was evidence that it has been relegated to the Virtual Calculator Museum. Of course, I hope they continue making it or some substitute with RPN because it is only 1 of 2 or 3 calculators with RPN left. If you come across a URL that would lead me to the information you have, I would appreciate it. Barry > I stand corrected. > My English is not good enough to tell the difference, > but now I know. > The word is incorrect information, if that is so. False implies that > I > intended to mislead. which is not true. I went to the HP site as I did > tonight and it is not available from HP on their Website. They have the > 48 > G but not the 49G. In any case, I have an unused 49G available for > sale. ==== ... Are you sure that these weren't for warranty/repair puposes? Craig ==== Yes - I'm quite sure of that! BUT naturally they could make another batch for that purpose later on. > ... Are you sure that these weren't for warranty/repair puposes? Craig > ==== I'm not quite sure, if this is know already, but I just wanted to let you know that 1.19-6 adds a wrong -1 when integrating the following antiderivative: x * cos(x) The correct answer is: x * sin(x) + cos(x) instead of x * sin(x) + cos(x) - 1 Greetings, Stefan ==== You have got a point there. I agree. Just sticking my nose in. Stan I'm not quite sure, if this is know already, but I just wanted to let > you know that 1.19-6 adds a wrong -1 when integrating the following > antiderivative: x * cos(x) The correct answer is: x * sin(x) + cos(x) instead of x * sin(x) + > cos(x) - 1 Greetings, > Stefan > Sorry, but you are a bit wrong yourself. AS a matter of fact, x * sin(x) + cos(x) + C is correct >for any constant, C. Your answer is wrong and the HP is right *if* the integral >is to be zero when x = 0. ==== I'm guessing here so don't shoot me down in flames if I'm wrong, but is is possible that what you're doing is finding the definite integral from zero to x of x*cos(x)? If so then the -1 is coming from evaluating [integral at x] minus [integral at zero], since x*sin(x)+cos(x) evaluates to 1 at x=0. If so then you should be using a different method. I'm not quite sure, if this is know already, but I just wanted to let > you know that 1.19-6 adds a wrong -1 when integrating the following > antiderivative: x * cos(x) The correct answer is: x * sin(x) + cos(x) instead of x * sin(x) + > cos(x) - 1 Greetings, > Stefan > ==== You were totally right: I used the integral from 0 to X, instead of INTVX. //I knew that the +1 is only a constant which doesn't really matter, but I was surprised, because sin(x)*x didn't come with a similar result... All my fault! sorry > I'm guessing here so don't shoot me down in flames if I'm wrong, but is > is possible that what you're doing is finding the definite integral from > zero to x of x*cos(x)? If so then the -1 is coming from evaluating > [integral at x] minus [integral at zero], since x*sin(x)+cos(x) > evaluates to 1 at x=0. > If so then you should be using a different method. > I'm not quite sure, if this is know already, but I just wanted to let > you know that 1.19-6 adds a wrong -1 when integrating the following > antiderivative: x * cos(x) The correct answer is: x * sin(x) + cos(x) instead of x * sin(x) + > cos(x) - 1 Greetings, > Stefan > ==== I'm not quite sure, if this is know already, but I just wanted to let > you know that 1.19-6 adds a wrong -1 when integrating the following > antiderivative: x * cos(x) The correct answer is: x * sin(x) + cos(x) instead of x * sin(x) + > cos(x) - 1 It's only a constant difference (1), so how does it matter? A pity that in class these days, if you don't get exactly what the book says it should be, you think you've it all wrong ==== > I'm not quite sure, if this is know already, but I just wanted to let > you know that 1.19-6 adds a wrong -1 when integrating the following > antiderivative: x * cos(x) The correct answer is: x * sin(x) + cos(x) instead of x * sin(x) + > cos(x) - 1 It's only a constant difference (1), so how does it matter? > A pity that in class these days, if you don't get exactly what the book says > it should be, you think you've it all wrong > BTW, the HP40G (I think CAS version is comparable to 1.19-1 of the 49G) gives cos(x)+x*sin(x). above answer is not wrong. Axel ==== > I'm not quite sure, if this is know already, but I just wanted to let > you know that 1.19-6 adds a wrong -1 when integrating the following > antiderivative: x * cos(x) The correct answer is: x * sin(x) + cos(x) instead of x * sin(x) + > cos(x) - 1 Greetings, > Stefan How did you get it? With 1.19-6 when I input X*COS(X) and press INTVX I get COS(X) + X*SIN(X) Or did I understand it wrongly :| -- Markus Nylund markus.nylund@arcada.fi 040-5377 377 ==== > How did you get it? > With 1.19-6 when I input X*COS(X) and press INTVX I get COS(X) + > X*SIN(X) Can anybody then explain to me, why I (using ROM 1.19-6) get this: INT(Xt*COS(Xt),Xt,X) ?????? WhatÇs wrong here? Is it my flags? ==== I would like the HP49G to display commas in large numbers (my 32S does this), but I cannot find the flag for this. For example: 1234567.00 as 1,234,567.00 Is this available on the 49G Aubrey. ==== > I would like the HP49G to display commas in large numbers (my 32S does > this), but I cannot find the flag for this. > For example: 1234567.00 as 1,234,567.00 I've also wanted that, and asked the same question 2 weeks ago, only (use google-groups, I recommend that!) http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm =435f61d8.0301172103.2460f745%40posting.google.com&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fq%3 D hp49%2Bthousand%2Bseparator%26num%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3 D UTF-8%26safe%3Doff I recommend you also assign some user keys to do the task. I've made F1 = << STD > display. F2 = << 9 ENG > F3 = << 6 ENG > F4 = << 3 ENG > This way I myself, very fast can determine the number of important decimals. Martin J. ==== Filer1 or Filer2 (both smaller than 2 KB) you'll have the most comfortable file manager. No restriction anymore in making HOME backups. These have both, date and time append as follows, provided the system flags -41 and -42 are clear (default, US-format): HOME 02/27/03 2:15P with exactly the spaces indicated and if made the 27th of february at 2:15PM. Clearly, because of the name's length you see normally only the date, the rest of the line displays the size of your HOME backup. However, you quickly uncover the time with the VAR key. A Port0 backup has a similar format. After a crash, only those files from Port0 will be restored from a Port0 backup which had been lost. Clearly, absolut safety for these backups is granted only in Port2. Now you can quietly go on holiday leaving your 49 at home without batteries even if your holidays are veryvery long :-) ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/tools/ PS. I got a small code from Jonathan B. which sets his HP49-emulator nicely in COMA mode. But it refused to work on the real HP49 and put my baby in a state which is even worse than a TTRM. But meanwhile I have sufficient experience to bring it back to life from the deepest coma :-) ==== Just want to clear up my newbie doubts: 1) Whats up with the hidden directory thing?? HOw can i access it?? 2)while graphing a function, how can i see numbers showing the length of the coordinate system? what i mean is, a want to view a scale on the graph. 3) advatages of using libeval? 4) examples of good libeval use. 5) none linear systems with over 1 answer, any way to get all the answers?? (havent found a way to do that, not even using solvesys) 6) Units in equation, how do i put them in, get the answer in apropiate units? [AC] ==== > Just want to clear up my newbie doubts: > 1) Whats up with the hidden directory thing?? HOw can i access it?? > 2)while graphing a function, how can i see numbers showing the length > of the coordinate system? what i mean is, a want to view a scale on > the graph. > 3) advatages of using libeval? > 4) examples of good libeval use. > 5) none linear systems with over 1 answer, any way to get all the > answers?? (havent found a way to do that, not even using solvesys) > 6) Units in equation, how do i put them in, get the answer in > apropiate units? > [AC] For non limear systems you have: 1) GBASE and GREDUCE (but only for polynomial equations.) 2) MSLV which does numeric solving, so only one solution is returned each time you use it. 3) The built-in multi-equation solver, which is also numeric. And of course manually solving some equation, substituting solutions to the next, and so on. Greetings, Nick. ==== > Just want to clear up my newbie doubts: 1) Whats up with the hidden > directory thing?? HOw can i access it?? Download the hide utility from http://www.hpcalc.org/search.php?query=hide. It's very recommandable IMO, because many libs make annoying variables that I practically don't use. > 2)while graphing a function, how can i see numbers showing the length > of the coordinate system? what i mean is, a want to view a scale on > the graph. 3) advatages of using libeval? 4) examples of good libeval Somebody else has to answer that. I just press (x,y) or trace if I want to know the coordinate somewhere. > use. 5) none linear systems with over 1 answer, any way to get all > the answers?? (havent found a way to do that, not even using > solvesys) 6) Units in equation, how do i put them in, get the answer > in apropiate units? 5) Not sure. 6) Not sure, but if you put them in and calculate something, then the units still are right, automatically, aren't they? If I add 8 mm to 1 m, then I get 1008 mm, which is correct, right? You're welcome. Martin J ==== > > Just want to clear up my newbie doubts: 1) Whats up with the hidden > > directory thing?? HOw can i access it?? > Download the hide utility from > http://www.hpcalc.org/search.php?query=hide. It's very recommandable > IMO, because many libs make annoying variables that I practically don't use. > 2)while graphing a function, how can i see numbers showing the length > > of the coordinate system? what i mean is, a want to view a scale on > > the graph. 3) advatages of using libeval? 4) examples of good libeval > Somebody else has to answer that. I just press (x,y) or trace if I want > to know the coordinate somewhere. > use. 5) none linear systems with over 1 answer, any way to get all > > the answers?? (havent found a way to do that, not even using > > solvesys) 6) Units in equation, how do i put them in, get the answer > > in apropiate units? > 5) Not sure. > 6) Not sure, but if you put them in and calculate something, then the > units still are right, automatically, aren't they? If I add 8 mm to 1 m, > then I get 1008 mm, which is correct, right? You're welcome. Martin J thanks, real usefull tips. was also wondering what other programs/funtions would be nice for high school physics (cinematics-dinamics etc.) and chemistry(reactions, chem equations etc) thanks again [[A][C]] ==== Would anybody like to share any recent opinions with Klotz Memory Cards. They look like quite a good deal. Tom ==== >Would anybody like to share any recent opinions with Klotz Memory Cards. They look like quite a good deal. > I bought a 128k and 2M early last year and I am satisfied with them. alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) ==== > Would anybody like to share any recent opinions with Klotz Memory Cards. I think they are very good cards for been installed. I've a card of 1MB from Klotz in my port 2 working with no problems. I'm very happy with it: The only thing I don't like is not having knowledge of Klotz's cards BEFORE buying an expensive 128Kb HP card for port 1 :-( ==== > Would anybody like to share any recent opinions with Klotz Memory Cards. They look like quite a good deal. Tom I've just received a 2MB card from Oliver Klotz. It works fine, and all the ports work. I can't understand why the real cards are so expensive ! You have to be careful with the card though, because it doesn't come encased. I suggest getting a typical flashcard plastic pouch that is fairly widely available to protect it, when it's not inside the calculator. I can thoroughly recommend them ! Very good service and support so far. Richard S. ==== > Would anybody like to share any recent opinions with Klotz Memory Cards. > They look like quite a good deal. I bought a Klotz 2mb card about 3 or 4 months ago, and I'm a *very* satisfied customer. -- Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== i have a hp 48GX. please could somebody tell me how i could use variables in matrix arithmetic . it is urgent please because i have an exam tomorrow and i really need it! ==== > please could somebody tell me how i could use variables in matrix > arithmetic . > it is urgent please because i have an exam tomorrow and i really need it! In my HP49, I just enter a matrix and when it comes to the variable I enter it this way: Ça+5Ç for example... Then I can find determinants and use RREF etc. etc., with no problems. It is important that you begin pressing right-shift + O/eqw and write the variable, followed by the same right-shift + O/eqw. Good luck tomorrow. Martin J. ==== Same applies for me. Santiago Beraza > please could somebody tell me how i could use variables in matrix > arithmetic . > it is urgent please because i have an exam tomorrow and i really need it! >In my HP49, I just enter a matrix and when it comes to the variable I enter >it this way: >Ça+5Ç for example... Then I can find determinants and use RREF etc. etc., >with no problems. It is important that you begin pressing right-shift + O/eqw and write the >variable, followed by the same right-shift + O/eqw. Good luck tomorrow. Martin J. ==== Santiago Beraza schreef in bericht > Same applies for me. > Santiago Beraza > please could somebody tell me how i could use variables in matrix > arithmetic . > it is urgent please because i have an exam tomorrow and i really need it! >In my HP49, I just enter a matrix and when it comes to the variable I enter >it this way: >Ça+5Ç for example... Then I can find determinants and use RREF etc. etc., >with no problems. It is important that you begin pressing right-shift + O/eqw and write the >variable, followed by the same right-shift + O/eqw. Good luck tomorrow. Martin J. > ==== My roommate loaned me his HP 49G to solve some integrals that my TI-89 can't. How do I solve indefinite integrals on this calc? I don't know which arguments and in which order to pass them on the command line and when I use the equation writer and leave the limits of integration blank it won't work. ==== A quick and easy way is to enter your expression in terms of x, then use the INTVX command in the CALC menu. > My roommate loaned me his HP 49G to solve some integrals that my TI-89 > can't. How do I solve indefinite integrals on this calc? I don't know which > arguments and in which order to pass them on the command line and when I > use the equation writer and leave the limits of integration blank it won't > work. ==== > My roommate loaned me his HP 49G to solve some integrals that my TI-89 > can't. How do I solve indefinite integrals on this calc? I don't know which > arguments and in which order to pass them on the command line and when I > use the equation writer and leave the limits of integration blank it won't > work. Enter the integrand function, with X as variable and use INTVX command to get an antiderivative, or enter integrand and variable on stack and use RISCH command. If the HP can't integratesome integrand function like 'F(X)', you will get back something like 'INT(F(Xt),Xt,X)', where Xt is a dummy variable made up by the HP and X was your original variable. Then you will have to try some other method, like integration by parts or substitution. ==== > My roommate loaned me his HP 49G to solve some integrals that my TI-89 > can't. How do I solve indefinite integrals on this calc? I don't know which > arguments and in which order to pass them on the command line and when I > use the equation writer and leave the limits of integration blank it won't > work. Why don't you ask your roommate? :-) About the limits of integration in EQW, just delete the placeholders. -- Bhuvanesh ==== My roommate loaned me his HP 49G to solve some integrals that my > TI-89 can't. How do I solve indefinite integrals on this calc? I > don't know which arguments and in which order to pass them on the > command line and when I use the equation writer and leave the limits > of integration blank it won't work. Why don't you ask your roommate? :-) About the limits of integration in EQW, just delete the placeholders. I can on the TI-89, but not on the HP 49G. ==== i've used the equation writer, but instead of using the definite integral (on the button), hit the <4> for the calculus menu, choose option 1 then option 8, called INTVX and enter the equation in the parentheses. -- matt > My roommate loaned me his HP 49G to solve some integrals that my TI-89 > can't. How do I solve indefinite integrals on this calc? I don't know which > arguments and in which order to pass them on the command line and when I > use the equation writer and leave the limits of integration blank it won't > work. ==== > I have downloaded everything that looked interesting but haven't found > any info on applet structure except source code applet frame(s). They > are commented but it's still hard for me to understand the overall > structure and how user functions interact with the algebraic parser > and the compiler. A couple of links: http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/museum/personalsystems/0026/inde x.html There's a good description of the aplet structure. Compare the parts mentioned with the aplet frame. As to the user functions: In the following doc, Tim Wessman explains step by step how to write functions for the HP39G (also valid for the HP38G, mutatis mutandis :) http://www.hpcalc.org/hp39/pc/advapletprgrm.zip Tim also refers the reader to this vital aplet by JYA: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp39/pc/funcaplet.zip [BTW, Tim, still thinking of your data manager, it's just that you don't need it till November, right? ;-] May I suggest you start writing simple RPL aplets first? You really do not *need* to know how the parser works to start programming. If what you need to know is, for example, how to make HELPWITH display a help text for your commands, keep in mind that the answer you'd receive is something like this: The '38G uses the prompt property field of '48 macros for containing the help string displayed by HELPWITH. Maybe someone would post sample code (like the one I posted to your other thread), but that's all. I mean: are you ready to follow that? Anyway, try asking what you want to do, not what you want to know! :) HPCC #1046 ==== >are you ready to follow that? No. That's the problem. Everything relates to the HP48 where it seems more of the underlying system is visible to the user. I like to understand how things work and know what I am doing when programming. It must be because of my FORTH background. I have read your references is recomended to every HP38G owner. But it only gives a sketchy overview of the applet structrure. When I read it I didn't relate it to the applet skeleton. I will try that but feels that there are lots of things that isn't mentioned. At the moment I am trying to understand StoAns@Drp by singlestepping to see if I can figure out how to fetch the value of Ans. Testing with SYSEVAL and debugging gives quite quick turnaround time in the emulator. Later I will try your string library example and try to understand how it works. I am also looking for a decompiler - I think that might help me understand the system better. Single stepping takes a lot of time. Ronny ==== ok, apparently the first post didn't work right with the attachments, let me try again: when i enter: ?(1,2,(1-Cos(x))/(x-Sin(x)),x) it simply spits back the same integral, except that it converts the x variable to xt and rearranges the orders a little bit, like this: ?(1,2,(Cos(xt)-1)/(Sin(xt)-xt),xt) any help anyone could provide on this would be great. again i'm using the HP 49 with ROM version 1.18. thank you! > I've recently upgraded from an HP 48G to an HP 49 with ROM version 1.18 > and i'm having some trouble. When I try to integrate, whether definite or indefinite, I sometimes get > something strange returned. For example: yeilds the answer: Does anybody have any ideas what is going on here? > ==== Matthew Senn schrieb im Newsbeitrag > ok, apparently the first post didn't work right with the attachments, let me > try again: when i enter: > ?(1,2,(1-Cos(x))/(x-Sin(x)),x) it simply spits back the same integral, except that it converts the x > variable to xt and rearranges the orders a little bit, like this: ?(1,2,(Cos(xt)-1)/(Sin(xt)-xt),xt) any help anyone could provide on this would be great. again i'm using the > HP 49 with ROM version 1.18. My HP49G (with ROM 1.19-6) gives the correct answer LN((SIN(2)-2)/(SIN(1)-1)). I recommend you update your calc to the most recent ROM version. Roman > thank you! > I've recently upgraded from an HP 48G to an HP 49 with ROM version 1.18 > and i'm having some trouble. When I try to integrate, whether definite or indefinite, I sometimes get > something strange returned. For example: yeilds the answer: Does anybody have any ideas what is going on here? > ==== looks like it helped me too. upgraded to ROM v119-6 and everything is working. thanks! > Matthew Senn schrieb im Newsbeitrag > ok, apparently the first post didn't work right with the attachments, let > me > try again: when i enter: > ?(1,2,(1-Cos(x))/(x-Sin(x)),x) it simply spits back the same integral, except that it converts the x > variable to xt and rearranges the orders a little bit, like this: ?(1,2,(Cos(xt)-1)/(Sin(xt)-xt),xt) any help anyone could provide on this would be great. again i'm using the > HP 49 with ROM version 1.18. My HP49G (with ROM 1.19-6) gives the correct answer > LN((SIN(2)-2)/(SIN(1)-1)). > I recommend you update your calc to the most recent ROM version. > > Roman thank you! > I've recently upgraded from an HP 48G to an HP 49 with ROM version > 1.18 > and i'm having some trouble. When I try to integrate, whether definite or indefinite, I sometimes get > something strange returned. For example: yeilds the answer: Does anybody have any ideas what is going on here? > ==== > How can you solve inequalties in the hp 49g? > stuff like 2(x+5)<10. > what about cuadratic inequalties? (2x(x+2)>0) Use SOLVE, and be sure to have ROM v 1.19.6. ==== > How can you solve inequalties in the hp 49g? > stuff like 2(x+5)<10. > what about cuadratic inequalties? (2x(x+2)>0) Use SOLVE, and be sure to have ROM v 1.19.6. > Hey, thats cool! thanks!! I also was wondering whats the difference beetween solve and solvevx. What about sistems of inequalties? can that be done? thanks again. [[A][C]] ==== > What about sistems of inequalties? can that be done? will work, while 'X*Y How can you solve inequalties in the hp 49g? > stuff like 2(x+5)<10. > what about cuadratic inequalties? (2x(x+2)>0) Use SOLVE, and be sure to have ROM v 1.19.6. > Hey, thats cool! thanks!! > I also was wondering whats the difference beetween solve and solvevx. > What about sistems of inequalties? can that be done? thanks again. > [[A][C]] Using SOLVEX you don't need to enter the variable to solve for, as this command will solve for the current variable vx, which you see at the top of the screen. (Usually it is X.) About system of inequations, well I never tried, but I don't think so. Anyway, try that and tell us what you found. Greetings, Nick. ==== when i do ON-F3 in which way I can preseve my font (I use number 6)? I hope the question is clear,sorry for my english tnx to anyone Bye!! ==== > when i do ON-F3 in which way I can preseve my font > (I use number 6)? Either store << FONT6 ->FONT > as 'STARTUP' in your HOME directory, or ass those two commands to your STARTUP program if you already have one. Hope this helps! -Joe- ==== > ass those two commands to your STARTUP program... Oops... lateral keyboard drift. Sorry. *Add* those two commands. -Joe- ==== > ass those two commands to your STARTUP program... Oops... lateral keyboard drift. Sorry. *Add* those two commands. -Joe- KIK COB ==== > ... ass those two commands... ? :-) !Demeter! ==== You can create a STARTUP global variable with any command, and save in the HOME directory ('STARTUP' STO); then when you warmstart (ON F3) the HP-49G, this charge all commands again. Please see, my usually STARTUP: .82 CLEAR CLLCD PINIT 2 ->LANGUAGE .82 257 MENU é 41.3 ASN IFERR 10 ->KEYTIME THEN KEYTIME-> END {# 3880038204110FF4h # 0h # 50400C0A100208h # 0h } STOF VARS SORT ORDER é Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK (M.A.C.H.) **************************************************************************** **** > ... ass those two commands... ? > > :-) !Demeter! ==== Is it a new Mini-challenge for RPL programmers? Or is it mathematical recreation for number aficionados? It's BOTH! ===== BACKGROUND ===== Everybody knows about the famous, fabulous Fibonacci sequence that starts like this: 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 ... Each Fibonacci number is obtained by adding the previous two Fibonacci numbers; for example, the 55 was obtained by adding 21+34. Therefore, the next Fibonacci number is 34+55 which is 89. If we call F(N) the Nth Fibonacci number, then the recursive formula is: F(0) = 0 F(1) = 1 F(N) = 1*F(N-2) + 1*F(N-1) Why are those 1*s in there? Because of what's to follow... stay tuned... One of the interesting things about Fibonacci numbers is the ratio of consecutive terms, F(N)/F(N-1): 1/1 = 1 2/1 = 2 3/2 = 1.5 5/3 = 1.66666666666... 8/5 = 1.6 13/8 = 1.625 21/13 = 1.6153846153846... 34/21 = 1.6190476190476... 55/34 = 1.6176470588235... 89/55 = 1.6181818181818... As you can see, the successive ratios alternate between getting bigger and getting smaller, approaching some number as a limit. That number is called the golden ratio (or golden mean), which is exactly equal to (1+sqrt(5))/2, approximately 1.6180339887498948482... Fibonacci numbers and their ratios are well known. Less well known are Pell numbers and their ratios. The Pell sequence starts like this: 1 2 5 12 29 70 169 408 985 ... Each Pell number is obtained by adding *twice* the previous number to the number before that; for example, the 70 is obtained by doubling 29 and then adding 12. Therefore, the next Pell number is 408 + 2*985 which is 2378. If we call P(N) the Nth Pell number, then the recursive formula is: P(0) = 0 P(1) = 1 P(N) = 1*P(N-2) + 2*P(N-1) Note well: this is identical to the definition of the Fibonacci sequence, except instead of 1* and 1* in the last line, this one has 1* and 2*. The ratio of consecutive Pell numbers exhibits a behavior similar to what we saw with the Fibonacci numbers above. Successive P(N)/P(N-1) are: 2/1 = 2 5/2 = 2.5 12/5 = 2.4 29/12 = 2.416666666666666... 70/29 = 2.41379310344827586... 169/70 = 2.414285714285714... 408/169 = 2.41420118343195... 985/408 = 2.4142156862745... 2378/985 = 2.414213197969543... Does the fractional part look familiar? It should. The process is approaching the limit of sqrt(2)+1. Now, suppose we generalize this. Instead of 1* or 2*, use X* and Y* in the definition of the sequence. Would the ratio of consecutive terms still approach a limit? Yes. Can a User4 RPL program be written to find that limit? Yes. Can *you* write such a program? Yes. Can you write the *best* program? Maybe! ===== THE MINI-CHALLENGE ===== Write a User RPL program that Generalizes the above process for the Generalized Sequence, namely, it takes X and Y as inputs, and returns the ratio of G(N+1)/G(N) as N approaches infinity, where G(N) is defined by the recursive formula: G(0) = 0 G(1) = 1 G(N) = X*G(N-2) + Y*G(N-1) Input: X and Y Output: limit of G(N)/G(N-1) as N approaches infinity. Examples: Input: 1 1 <--- the Fibonacci sequence Output: (1+sqrt(5))/2 Input: 1 2 <--- the Pell sequence Output: 1+sqrt(2) Input: 2 1 <--- the sequence { 1 1 3 5 11 21 43 ... } Output: 2 Input: 2 2 <--- the sequence { 1 2 6 16 44 120 ... } Output: 1+sqrt(3) There will be two winners: the smallest HP48 User RPL program that returns the correct answer in *decimal* form, and the smallest HP49 User RPL program that returns the correct answer in *exact* form. Happy Programming! -Joe- ==== > 3rd Place: Wolfgang again, for the idea of using EGVL, which > which could be done something like this: > << 1 0 { 2 2 } ->ARRY EGVL 2 GET > I'll repeat here a small challenge which is related to JHK's challenge but I simplified it somewhat, not talking on Gaussean integers anymore. We start with f(0)=f(1)=1 and the recursion formula (1) f(n+2)= f(n) + i*f(n+1) (i = sqrt(-1)). This defines a complex-valued sequence but (1) is very similar to Fibonacci's formula for his sequence F from his Liber Abacci (Pisa 1202) which starts with F(1)=1, F(2)=2, hence the setting f(0)=f(1)=1. If the limes of the sequence [f(n+1)/f(n)] exist in the complex plane then it is necessarily a root of the equation (2) x^2 - i*x -1 = 0. For proving this one may follow Colin's device since it doesn't matter whether we reformulate an eqation with real or complex numbers. As is easily shown, the roots of (2) are the complex numbers (sqrt(3)-i)/2 and (sqrt(3)+i)/2. My question is: Does lim [f(n+1)/f(n)] really exist and which of the two roots of (2) is then the limes? Winner will be the first who comes up with a precise answer. PS. You get the two mentioned roots also by running Joe's program above with input i 1 in complex exact mode. They are as well the eigen-values of the matrix i 1 1 0 ==== > 3rd Place: Wolfgang again, for the idea of using EGVL, which > which could be done something like this: > << 1 0 { 2 2 } ->ARRY EGVL 2 GET I'll repeat here a small challenge which is related to JHK's challenge > but I simplified it somewhat, not talking on Gaussean integers anymore. > We start with f(0)=f(1)=1 and the recursion formula > > (1) f(n+2)= f(n) + i*f(n+1) (i = sqrt(-1)). This defines a complex-valued sequence but (1) is very similar > to Fibonacci's formula for his sequence F from his Liber Abacci (Pisa > 1202) which starts with F(1)=1, F(2)=2, hence the setting > f(0)=f(1)=1. If the limes of the sequence [f(n+1)/f(n)] exist in the > complex plane then it is necessarily a root of the equation (2) x^2 - i*x -1 = 0. For proving this one may follow Colin's device since it doesn't matter > whether we reformulate an eqation with real or complex numbers. As is > easily shown, the roots of (2) are the complex numbers (sqrt(3)-i)/2 and > (sqrt(3)+i)/2. My question is: Does lim [f(n+1)/f(n)] really exist and which of the two roots > of (2) is then the limes? Winner will be the first who comes up with a precise answer. > > PS. You get the two mentioned roots also by running Joe's program above > with input i 1 in complex exact mode. They are as well the > eigen-values of the matrix > i 1 > 1 0 The eigenvalues of [[i 1][1 0]], w1 and w2, are primitive 12th roots of 1, so w1^n=w2^n = 1 iff n ==0 mod 12. For any values of f(0) and f(1), there are suitable values of a and b such that f(n) = a*w1^n + b*w2^n. Then f(n + 12*k) = f(n) for all non-negative integers n and k, and the values of f(n) are periodic with period 12. Since f(n)is not constant unless a = b = 0, there can be no limiting value to f(n+1)/f(n), as the ratio will be periodic too. The limit of the ratio does not exist. Note on an odd particular case: If f(1) = f(2) <> 0, then f(n) = 0 iff n == 6 mod 12. ==== > I'll repeat here a small challenge... We start with > f(0)=f(1)=1 and the recursion formula > (1) f(n+2)= f(n) + i*f(n+1) (i = sqrt(-1)). > This defines a complex-valued sequence but (1) is very > similar to Fibonacci's formula for his sequence F from his > Liber Abacci (Pisa 1202) which starts with F(1)=1, F(2)=2, > hence the setting f(0)=f(1)=1. If the limes of the sequence > [f(n+1)/f(n)] exist in the complex plane then it is a root > of the equation > (2) x^2 - i*x -1 = 0. > As is easily shown, the roots of (2) are the complex > numbers (sqrt(3)-i)/2 and (sqrt(3)+i)/2. My question is: > Does lim [f(n+1)/f(n)] really exist and which of the two > roots of (2) is then the limes? > The eigenvalues of [[i 1][1 0]], w1 and w2, are primitive > 12th roots of 1, so w1^n=w2^n = 1 iff n ==0 mod 12. > For any values of f(0) and f(1), there are suitable values > of a and b such that f(n) = a*w1^n + b*w2^n. > Then f(n + 12*k) = f(n) for all non-negative integers n and > k, and the values of f(n) are periodic with period 12. > Since f(n) is not constant unless a = b = 0, there can be no > limiting value to f(n+1)/f(n), as the ratio will be periodic > too. The limit of the ratio does not exist. That's altogether correct, hence, you are the winner. The result could have been obtained even with elementary math, I mention this only for the rest of the people :-) The sequence f when drawn in a clock face, f(1)=1 at 12 o'clock, f(1)= 1 at 1 o'lock etc looks as follows: * * 1 * 1-i 1 * * -i 1+i * -i * i * -i-i * i * -1 * -1+i * -1 And this is the legend: When God had created Heaven and Earth and Mankind he took a little rest and looked at the sequence defined by f(n+2) = f(n) + i*f(n+1). Notwithstanding, God saw at once the above circle. And he said Ok, this may be the clock face for my creatures There is a very small missing detail in Virgil's argument. It's correct that the sequence [f(n+1)/f(n)] is periodic as well, but the period may perhaps be 1. This is not so as is seen by the circle. Actually, the period is 3. AND THIS HOLDS TRUE FOR ANY sequence f starting with any two reals a,b distinct from 0 and obeying (1) above. Hence, my next challenge: Write a shortest possible UsrRPL program which yields the 3 different terms of the sequence [f(n+1/f(n)] where f is defined above with initial values a,b <> 0. ==== > The sequence f when drawn in a clock face, f(1)=1 at 12 o'clock Clearly, I mean with f(0)= 1 (= f(12)) at the top of the clock face. * > * 1 * > 1-i 1 > * * > -i 1+i * -i * i * -i-i * i * -1 * -1+i > * -1 And this is the legend: When God had created Heaven and Earth > and Mankind he took a little rest and looked at the sequence.. Independently on whether this is true or not: if Leibniz would have looked at the sequence, he'd had an additional argument in his claim This world is the best of all possible worlds!. It is told that he cried this out when he for the first time drawed the sequence of natural numbers in binary base and realized that addtion and multiplication could be carried out as well with 2 digits only. Do you know that in the Liber Abaci of Fibonacci (who was the Court Mathematician of Friedrich II = Barbarossa) also the addition and multiplication procedures as taught today in the elem. schools in the whole world appeared for the first time? (clearly, the Pope and many other people looked at these new procedures in arabic digits as a new trick of the devil :-) Fibonacci invented also the first iterative numeric procedure, taking the example of computing with it the 3rd root of 47 (which is irrational). Remember that he lived nearly 500 years before Newton and 400 years before Decartes! I may present Fibonacci's one person is interested in and if time allows. ==== Solidarity of the empty barrels :-) Oh! It ended! ??? For this time! > Just when it was tastefully Off Topic > ;-) Oh sorry, then I continue ;-) > PS: It's nice to be back and find out that you have all learned > good manners, respect for each other, and a naturally polite tongue > all this while I was away...;-) ;-) ;-) Good manners and polite tongue have to be replaced by protest sometimes. Not often, but sometimes. Greetings, Nick. ==== X > PS: It's nice to be back and find out that you have all learned > good manners, respect for each other, and a naturally polite tongue > all this while I was away...;-) ;-) ;-) Good manners and polite tongue have to be replaced by protest > sometimes. Not often, but sometimes. protest ??? You HULKed on WR !!! Be aware of gamma radiation! It's worse than the Dark Side of the Force! ;-) ==== > X > PS: It's nice to be back and find out that you have all learned > good manners, respect for each other, and a naturally polite tongue > all this while I was away...;-) ;-) ;-) Good manners and polite tongue have to be replaced by protest > sometimes. Not often, but sometimes. protest ??? You HULKed on WR !!! I guess Hulked comes from Hulk the green thing of marvel comics and means the devastation that he causes??? If this is what the word means, then did I do that without any reason? Wasn't it him who started this a long time ago, wasn't it me who tried to remain joking a looong time despite unbelievable insults from his side, wasn't it him who wouldn't leave me in peace for months? I can take much, but I can also strike back. Hulking wouldn't be to just say loud and clear what I think of him, but to remain very very polite, and at the same time do something else, namely take the whole history of postings here and give them to the court! It is definitely *NOT* an everyday thing, accusing somebody of terrorism because he/she refuses to out on the pseudo-serious face of a professor. *That* would have been hulking, if I guessed the meaning right. > Be aware of gamma radiation! I need that, I'm not from here. ;-) > It's worse than the Dark Side of the Force! Yes, for human beings, but for me it is necessary. Gamma-Snickers, yummy! Greetings, Nick. ==== Nick Karagiaouroglou > Good manners and polite tongue have to be replaced by protest > sometimes. Not often, but sometimes. > protest ??? > You HULKed on WR !!! > Be aware of gamma radiation! > It's worse than the Dark Side of the Force! > ;-) I usually do not read Nick's postings because these are caught away by my spam-filter. I just read it now after searching in in my garbage. He could have been content with his role as the greatest empty barrel making the biggest noise in this NG. But now it turned out that he is a liar and a slanderer. He hates German universities, maybe he was kicked out by one of these. People caring about user interface enhancement for the 48/49 are gurus for him (he does not say eggheads because this might disqualify himself). Unfortunately, he seems not to have the slightest creative Marathons you can read in Urroz's books, mostly better, but occasionally in almost the same words. The only what would be a pitty if he'd be accused of plagiarism is that some students of little wealth had to pay for Urroz's books. PS. Neither I nor (I think) JKH who introduced this wonderful empty barrel in the language here, would ever claim that you, Veli, belong to these. As a matter of fact much improvement in the developement of the 49-RAM in 2 years is due to you. ==== > Nick Karagiaouroglou > Good manners and polite tongue have to be replaced by protest > sometimes. Not often, but sometimes. > > protest ??? > You HULKed on WR !!! > Be aware of gamma radiation! > It's worse than the Dark Side of the Force! > ;-) I usually do not read Nick's postings because these are caught > away by my spam-filter. I just read it now after searching in in my > garbage. Either put me in the garbage and forget about me, or take me out and read. No sense putting me in the garbage in order to search in garbage afterwards. > He could have been content with his role as the greatest empty barrel > making the biggest noise in this NG. But now it turned out that he is a > liar and a slanderer. He hates German universities, maybe he was kicked > out by one of these. No, and you know *exactly* what I was talking about. The hate goes not the universities themselves, but rather against what you're making out of these universities. Unimportant pseudo-philosophic instituts. But, if you deny this fact, then OK. I just sit here, watching your decay, and amuse myself. > People caring about user interface enhancement for the 48/49 are gurus > for him (he does not say eggheads because this might disqualify > himself). No. For me the gurus are those who will very seldom say a good word for anybody else's work, simply because that is not their own work. Anything that was not from the guru, *has* to be either nonsense or very imperfect, while the guru of course makes anything perfect by simply putting his/her signature on it. And of course I know that in reality I am an egghead who knows 3,5 things, quite contrary to the high priests like you, who declare themselves to be perfect. There is nobody else here, who has to say so often how perfect his work is. Furthermore! The main purpose of the HP49G is not its interface but its math capabilities. The guru left this work for eggheads like me, without even trying to give anything that would enhance those capabilities. If you don't do that, what do you expect form me the egghead? Sit and wait until your mercyful soul will think about real needs? > Unfortunately, he seems not to have the slightest creative > talent. In this respect I feel even sorry for him. Don't cry for me Argentina! > Marathons you can read in Urroz's books, mostly better, but occasionally > in almost the same words. I don't have the books of Urroz! I had more than enough information from the real professor here, and form all people who cared helping to understand the behavior of the calc and to solve real life problems, instead of assigning 3000 functions on a key. > The only what would be a pitty if he'd be > accused of plagiarism is that some students of little wealth had to pay > for Urroz's books. OK, come on out and accuse me of plagiarism! Do that, please! Officially and seriously! I'm waiting for you, professor! Nick. ==== Solidarity of the empty barrels :-) Better than a full barrel which permanently demonstrates how empty all other barrels are. Speaking of full, the question is: Full with what? Nick. ==== > God save me from my friends! although I can't recall it at the moment. > Please, Joseph is right and I probably should not have let things get to > me in the first place whether I felt justified or not. Let's just let it > lie, eh? > As you wish, Colin! Though there are definitely cases where the voice *must* be raised! Greetings, Nick. ==== > As for your criticism: > The equation r = F(n+1)/F(n)=F(n)/F(n-1) is simply false for > each n > 1 Of course it is! That's why I said as n tends to infinity. With this formulation you would not pass any university examination in > math. Learning linguistic discipline is a bacis task in math education, > and the most difficult to learn. What could clearly be said should > clearly be said. It's almost always shorter than any confusing text, in > particular in the derivation of the formula under discussion. In my 1st > reply I even accepted your confusing text and tried politely to correct > it. If I'd known your arrogance I wouldn't have done that. Honnestly Wolfgang, I should it is now time for you to get drunk with whatever you can find. Or as we say in French: Mets de l'huile Don't be so uptight! university professor in math would have uttered such stupid things even > if he is totally drunk. I always encourage my students in math and info > to use graphic calculators. And many students are happy doing this. ==== > ... Learning linguistic discipline is a bacis task in math education, > and the most difficult to learn. What could clearly be said should > clearly be said. It's almost always shorter than any confusing text, in > particular in the derivation of the formula under discussion. > Honnestly Wolfgang, I should it is now time for you to get drunk with > whatever you can find. Or as we say in French: Mets de l'huile Perhaps I should, but I don't know with whom. None of my colleges is drinking (unless it is of first quality and payed by others :-) I hope some day *we* will do that together. If people would argue as CC did with the complex number sequence f defined by f(n+2)=f(n)+ i*f(n+1) and f(0)=f(1)=1 they would fall into a trap. There is an immense amount of software made by software engineers without adequate math background :-). hidden bug in your filer, probably more difficult to find than the hidden poison-gas rockets in the Irak :-) ==== I agree on Wolfgang on this one: It's preferable to correct any math here, BUT as you can see from the reactions of people her, dear Wolfgang, there was some french genes in your blood since even Avenard (who is French as a man can be) seems to wonder your style. _Personally_ (which means that do what _you_ like) I would not start to argue with anybody (just a suggestion). I would just correct the maths by stating the correct and/or additional information and claim on a side note that this is for the newbies, and people with limited math background I personally didn't even notice any math flaws in any writings in this thread despite my engineering (math) studies (cumlaude) back in the end of 1970 in the Oulu university. > ... Learning linguistic discipline is a bacis task in math education, > and the most difficult to learn. What could clearly be said should > clearly be said. It's almost always shorter than any confusing text, in > particular in the derivation of the formula under discussion. Honnestly Wolfgang, I should it is now time for you to get drunk with > whatever you can find. Or as we say in French: Mets de l'huile Perhaps I should, but I don't know with whom. None of my colleges is > drinking (unless it is of first quality and payed by others :-) I hope > some day *we* will do that together. If people would argue as CC did with the complex number sequence f > defined > by f(n+2)=f(n)+ i*f(n+1) and f(0)=f(1)=1 they would fall into a trap. > There is an immense amount of software made by software engineers > without > adequate math background :-). hidden bug in your filer, probably more difficult to find than the > hidden poison-gas rockets in the Irak :-) > ==== Can one use units in the HP49 equation writer like you could with the HP48? No matter what I try I can't enter them in the HP49. thanks for your considerations, Caesar Garcia ==== Caesar Garcia schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Can one use units in the HP49 equation writer like you could with the > HP48? No matter what I try I can't enter them in the HP49. No, unfortunately the equation writer on the HP49G doesn't handle units. Roman > thanks for your considerations, Caesar Garcia ==== Nice, but still in DOS (sadly) and still for PC (not very portable). And who needs HP-IL today, anyway? > Dear all, FYI, if there are still HP-41C fans here, I upadate my Emu41 emulator > (for DOS ...) with full HP-IL support including 5 internal (virtual) > devices: one display, two mass storage units (DOS image file, floppy), a > printer interface (parallel port) and a DOS interface. All this is available as freeware, like previous versions. Please look > at my new home page at: http://membres.lycos.fr/jeffcalc As an option, I propose an extended version for a small fee with > external HP-IL interface support by using the HPIL/PC board (HP82973A or > compatible). > I know that many of you have an old 286/386/486 sleeping around, now you > can turn it into a powerfull HP-IL controller (41 compatible) or into a > multidevice HP-IL unit! > Jean-Francois Garnier > ==== What a success ... I cannot sleep because I am so jealous ... > I've just agreed a trade with another calculator's fool, so I'll put my > hands in a 42S in *very* good condition soon > I've completed an ace's poker: 15c, 32SII, 42S and 48GX... > ==== > What a success ... I cannot sleep because I am so jealous ... It seems you have a problem... ==== Yes, I have the problem because I don't like guys who think that the whole world must know when they have bought a piece of second hand garbage. > What a success ... I cannot sleep because I am so jealous ... It seems you have a problem... > ==== > Yes, I have the problem because I don't like guys who think that the whole > world must know when they have bought a piece of second hand garbage. No, you have the problem because you lack the empathy to enjoy another's good fortune, as well as lacking the intelligence and good taste needed to appreciate a fine piece of engineering like the HP-42S. -- Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== > Yes, I have the problem because I don't like guys who think that the whole > world must know when they have bought a piece of second hand garbage. I am too little for answering your big thoughts, so I will use words of Master Jean Ives Avenard: I would say that you're a moron. I would say it twice actually. ==== > X > What's annoying or misleading about the marathons? That's he's doing > all this work for a dead calculator? The HP 4x line is not dead ! > Why do you come here to spread lies? > I don't write to TI group and say TI 92 is dead because of V200... But alive it also isn't. (No further development - for the time being.) Perhaps it is only asleep... Greetings, Nick. ==== My comment to the New 49G for sale read. The TI DeathStar - back it strikes! adoY PS: with you the RPN may_be > X > What's annoying or misleading about the marathons? That's he's doing > all this work for a dead calculator? The HP 4x line is not dead ! > Why do you come here to spread lies? > I don't write to TI group and say TI 92 is dead because of V200... But alive it also isn't. (No further development - for the time being.) > Perhaps it is only asleep... Greetings, > Nick. ==== > My comment to the New 49G for sale read. > The TI DeathStar - back it strikes! > adoY > PS: with you the RPN may_be Sorry I mean this thread: ==== > X > Luck is with the daring. Anyway, luck or not luck, for me it is > secret priviledges for the insiders, while it seems to be possible for > any normal user to use them safely. Is there any clear distiction Somehow reminds me of governments, which declare so many things > X > Nope! > Just as with the HP 41 series Synthetic Programming > you are doing HP 4x series Synthetic Programming > you do things that are not planned ahead, but will sometimes work. You are right. It is only that my limited understanding implied that such synthetics should be much more difficult to access for the normal user, in the sense that additional libraries should be necessary etc.. I start thinking that pressumably there is no really sharp boundary between easily accessible and thus OK to use and not easily accessible and thus dangerous, especially on the 49, which includes anything necessary for synthetics creation. But nonetheless, somehow I tend to include the lib 256 in the rest of the normal user commands, since neither its accessibility, nor its functionality is really very special. I mean, even for a normal UserRPL user, like me, it requires no additional knowledge to understand that, for example COMP-> explodes a composite. Once I understand what OBJ-> does, I just have to generalize its functionality, and I can also understand what COMP-> does, without having to go learn SystemRPL first. > Nobody is keeping any secrects but your voyage is to boldly go > to the unknown parts of the v'ger ROM-space-continuum. It just makes me wonder, how easy it is to access that continuum. No jumping to hyper space is necessary. With the 48GX, the same voyage was much more difficult (for me). That is perhaps why I have the impression that any menu in the HP49G is a menu for all of us, while all wonders/dangers are kept in secret places that only the gurus can reach. > Will you come back with a Synthetic Objects Marathon? Well, perhaps I really should do that. Until now I thought of such objects only in terms of usability and help for the primary purpose of the 49G, that is how can I use such objects to solve problems. But thinking again about them, I find your proposal very attractive, be it only for the fun of it. > PS: Don't blame the crew, they have nothing to do with your discoveries. > AND: yes - it is dangerous - becuase nobody knows what happens next. Not the crew around captain Jean Yves. This crew was (still is?) a real enrichment, because they exploded all limits, which we thought solid as rocks. Alone this small mind revolution is enough for a nobel in calcuratorics. But this wasn't the only crew that participated. (You know, Carlina baby and so on....) > PPS: Have you ever tryed to hack a 2D matrix into a 3D? It's fun... > (do back up your things to Flash 1st) I do 3D matrices (and any-D matrices, using AXL and lists of lists of lists...). Do you mean that, or something else? Greetings, thanks again for the idea of synthetics marathon. Nick. ==== X > PPS: Have you ever tryed to hack a 2D matrix into a 3D? It's fun... > (do back up your things to Flash 1st) I do 3D matrices (and any-D matrices, using AXL and lists of lists of > lists...). Do you mean that, or something else? Just that! AND it works! But not always... > Greetings, thanks again for the idea of synthetics marathon. > Nick. You're welcome! ==== > 1) What is a density curve? Take a look at http://people.hofstra.edu/faculty/Stefan_Waner/cprob/cprob2.html . I think that what J. Yuan wants is partially covered by all UTXX commands, like UTPC and so on. But they wouldn't draw the curve automatically out of a data matrix. One has to program. > 2) << -> n << n RAND * IP 1. + n > DROP > 'nRAND' STO > { } 1. 150. START 10. nRAND + NEXT RANM could also be useful, though not very much so. > I'm taking a beginning Statistics course that is equivalent to a college > survey class. Of course, everything is geared towards the Ti-83. I > downloaded a couple of Stats programs (including Stats Pro 49), but I find > these apply mostly to inferential statistics, and I'm doing descriptive > statistics right now. 1). Does anyone know if the 49G will be able to sketch a density curve > from > a set of data or from a histogram? > 2). I know this is possible. But what command lets the calculator > generate > a series of random numbers (say 150 random numbers between 1 and 10)? > ==== > Nice thing that ZEROS. It will give a llist of { answers } only > While SOLVE (or SOLVEVX) > gives the { variable=answer} type list of solutions. > I prefer using alpha for trigs, (alpha is the Nick's greek a) > so the ASSUME is always on (no need to 'X' UNASSUME) > 'alpha>=2*pi' ASSUME > 'alpha<=0' ASSUME That's an intuitive idea. How long does the assumption stay on? > If it gets erased during a warm boot, then I should put it in the > STARTUP var... but I have no knowledge of how to exactly use that > variable yet. I guess I just put in the program << 'alpha=3' ASSUME > for example, and then store it to STARTUP. Assumptions survive in general until 1) a Warmstart or For (1) it is OK to include code for making assumptions in STARTUP. For (2), it might be better to always start with a clean house, doing 'variableName' UNASSUME first, and then all assumptions. (??) Greetings, Nick. ==== > How do u solve a system of linear equations on the HP49G? I don't > understand the entry of the coefficients through matrices. EX. > -3X+6Y=4 > 2X+Y=4 > ( I know the answer to this is obvious but it is just an example!) Thanxs in Advance CID Thanxs Everyone I was able to try all of your solutions and find one > that was quick and easy! > THANXS again!! > CID With pleasure, CID! BTW, which one was quick and easy? Greetings, Nick. ==== > After about a hundred reboots everything seems to be zero killed aka 0K > Good luck! Nick. ==== At this point each time i put an integer on stack I should get 0 but this is > what i really get: > 1 -65.814E-15 > 2 65.814E-15 > 3 -65.814E-15 > 4 3.2489E-12 > 5 -3.2489E-12 > ..... > Please help me solving this problem. (I get the same wrong result if I put > the calculator in RAD mode and try to calculate sin(2*pi)....) X > You can either accept the near-zero results, or you can write a test > to check the result and substitute zero if the magnitude is below some > arbitrary value. You know, this happens so often, I'm surprised HP > didn't supply a flag for rounding off small answers. EPSX0 will change any near-zero value (defined by EPS in CASDIR) to zero. You may found it useful. ==== The build-in ALG49 has almost evreyting that the ALG48 has but it's naming convention is totally different due to heavy integration (pun not intended) to the new OS. Long Integers are there, symbolic matrices are there and all the module commands plus rational expression simplifications, expansions and other manipulation tools. > Does anyone knows if there are similar commands? > tnx to anyone > Bye ==== > I recently purchased a used 48GX that's in 'like new' condition and the guy > I bought it from said he bought it a only a year ago. However I was looking > at a website that sold these calculators and noticed that it said they > carried the newer black on grey display My screen appears to be a dark > blue on green color so I'm wondering if my calc is actually a lot older than > what the guy told me. Could someone please clarify how new these 'newer' > models actually are and is there an improvement of visibility that comes > with them as well? X There might still be some older 48Gs on some stores so it's quite possible that your 48G is 'like new'. There are three different models (at least) what comes to hardware (besides the ROM software versions, which should be R rather than P) 1) first with injection molded keys that will not were out 2) the old ones, only silk screened keys, same LCD (better than 48S's) 3) the new ones with almost black LCD, better contrast ==== The try the Nicks amazing Complex Number Marathon http://ca-on.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=5114 > i own a HP49G ==== Cyrille de Br.8ebisson schrieb > I personally beleive that RPN is better (see the Why is RPN so good thread). Sure, RPN, this is what the HP48/9 is made for, first :-) > 3)How can i switch the complex mode?e.g. 5+8i=9,433981132<57.99461679Á > If you want to display in Polar mode, you can either > go in Mode, and change to polar in the coordinate system > or, use the RECT and CYLIN commands to switch from rectangular to > Cylindrical coordinates (Cylindrical is equivalent to polar in 2 > dimentions). Or switch with LeftShift (blue) MTH (P) VECTR (soft menu F1) NXT (L) and choose the soft menu key (F1 or F2) Nikos, it takes some time to get familar with your calculator, but basic operations with complex numbers (+, -, *.. SIN...) are very simple to apply in RPN to complex numbers. Try it! ..Heiko ==== X > Go to this web site, create an account, then post a bug.. You can even be > notified whenever the status of a bug is changed and it's the perfect way > not to loose any bug LOL Are the bugs being kept somewhere - in a jar or tin can? You have to keep the OS back-wards compatible!! ==== > Here is what I did: > :2:FOO.DIR ARCHIVE > Go into Filer, go into Port2, Right Arrow on FOO.DIR, right Arrow on '' > directory. Could see the name just fine. > Now, copy FOO.DIR into HOME directory This is not the problem. Well, this is exactly the problem. You should re-read my previous post > view > is completely unclear to me. I use your original filer for that I was accessing the *hidden dir* (which is a inacurrate name for the empty-name directory, as in a backup it is visible) > This is the problem on my new 49 with the original ROM 19-6. I even > deleted > of HOME. in a backup. Obviously, the Filer doesn't let you enter in the HOME hidden directory (not inside a backup) which is normal. However, using the Right Arrow key, or selecting the Null-name directory inside a backup let you get inside it without any problem. In the case I've described earlier, I see (in the TREE view) PORT0 PORT1 PORT2 HOME |-FOO.DIR | |-CASDIR | -'' -CASDIR I just have to highlight '', press either Right Arrow or Enter on it, and I will get inside the null-name directory. In the browser itself, it would look like (inside the FOO.DIR directory, either saved in HOME or PORT2): memory: 130000 -------------------------- CASDIR '' Again, just highlighting the '' name, and pressing RightArrow let me see the content of this directory without problem. So I don't understand where your problem lies, as I've tried on various ROM, none of them has problem you decribe: I mean using the built-in Filer. After making a complete cleaning of the user memory to kill all possible > viruses, I now get a different behavior: No warmstart anymore if trying > be > ended only by a warmstart. again, a *normal* calculator doesn't present this kind of behavior. If you could reproduce it from an empt calculator or tell me exactly what external libraries are required to produce this crash. Do you get this crash from the normal filer or using your Filer2 and Filer3 program? This remains definitely a problem of my other 49 which is older but ok. Yes, but does it crash or hang your machine? I can't reproduce what you describe. I'm starting to think that the problem you have and the nullname one are both related and seems to be present on your machine only. ==== I'm starting to think that the problem you have and the nullname one are > both related and seems to be present on your machine only. > I made a backup of the Home dir with the ARCHIVE command in port 2. Then open the filer (the built-in, no WR's one) and go to port 2, then right arrow in the home backup and again in the hidden dir (it's backup). There I get a warmstart. It happens every time that I try. Saludos Jorge M. Valenzani ==== > I made a backup of the Home dir with the ARCHIVE command in port 2. > Then open the filer (the built-in, no WR's one) and go to port 2, then > right arrow in the home backup and again in the hidden dir (it's > backup). There I get a warmstart. It happens every time that I try. What are you flag settings and libraries that you are loading ? I can't reproduce it. Only yourself and Wolfgang reported this bug so far. ==== What are you flag settings and libraries that you are loading ? I can't reproduce it. Only yourself and Wolfgang reported this bug so far. > Since I made a couple of tests (ON-A-F and boot with backspace pressed to prevent libs. to load) and they have the same previous result, I think the flags don't care. Anyway here they are: {# 38800B2637D91FF1h # 0h #805010000A090141h #0h} ROM 1.19-6 of course (downloaded from your site). Loaded libs. are: Port 2: Bode v2.31 Bode-Routh v8.1 Solvesys Neopolys v8.1 Emacs 1.10 Longfloat v2.6 extable Xcell48 v2.1 Listr v4.2 Nosy 4.0 SDIAG 1.10 CQIF? v1.7.7 Matrix49 v1.0 Choosext 1.2002 Scribe v1.01a Organizer v 1.1 Polynomial v2.1 Port 1: InFormBuilder 1.6 Tetris 2.6 Saludos Jorge M. Valenzani ==== > What are you flag settings and libraries that you are loading ? > I can't reproduce it. Only yourself and Wolfgang reported this > bug so far. I think I found the bug. If a HOME backup contains another nullname builtin filer does not anymore work, either warmstart or a hang-up. Thus, the filer is foolish and thinks the first nullname from above (in Now, all file hiding tools are based on adding another nullname to the 48-hackers for the *normal* user and is probably older than Metakernel. Without hiding tools a somewhat advanced user cannot efficiently use his HP49 for things he is designed to (lots of numeric/symbolic calculations, graphics and simple programming). E.g., I have more than 60 files in HOME, but only the directories and some normal programs are visible, all other stuff like STARTUP, IOPAR, many units and other things which aren't directly used but must be disposable in e v e r y directory and which should never unintendendly be overwritten, are hidden. Clearly, I also have STARTUP in a CST menu, for fast access in case of need. This all keeps my HOME directory clean. Similarly, my directories MUSIC, PRGS etc are organized. A nullname should not itself contain a user-directory as was explained in older postings by JHM (in the hiding tools in Filer1/2, it contains a character, a smallest possible dummy, but it can contain anything). That hidden files are still visible in the filer is of advantage. A very young child playing with a 49 (the games on it) probably never enters the filer, hence one need not be anxious. Briefly speaking, hiding should at least be *respected* if not added in the operating system of the 49. That would cost nearly nothing. The builtin filer should procede look for the next nullname if there is any >. PS for JYA: Your nice Makefiler tools for the SysRPL programmer do not allow a direct reprogramming of the Right-arrow functionality (unless using a lot of ML stuff of what I guess about 500 bytes). ==== > I think I found the bug. If a HOME backup contains another nullname > builtin filer does not anymore work, either warmstart or a hang-up. > PS for JYA: Your nice Makefiler tools for the SysRPL programmer do not > allow a direct reprogramming of the Right-arrow functionality > (unless using a lot of ML stuff of what I guess about 500 bytes). I'll have a look too. But normally, standard browsing key can't be redefined. It was designed that way (up/down etc...) If you currently can then it was not intended and will probably go away in a future version ==== > Your nice Makefiler tools for the SysRPL programmer do not > allow a direct reprogramming of the Right-arrow functionality > (unless using a lot of ML stuff of what I guess about 500 > I'll have a look too. But normally, standard browsing key can't be > redefined. It was designed that way (up/down etc...) > If you currently can then it was not intended and will probably go > away in a future version I can *overwrite* what I want because the lists in the list given to the flashpointer Filer_Manger have priority, and that should remain. E.g., I overwrite in my filers the ALPHA-key completely for my own simplified search option which doesn't leave the main environement as it does in your filer-draft for ROM 19-7 :-) ==== I don't have any problems accessing the '' directory in a port 2 archive. I can see EMC.cfg, Alarms, UserKeys, and UserKeys.CRC. Using ROM 1.19-6. Thomas >I'm starting to think that the problem you have and the nullname one are >both related and seems to be present on your machine only. > I made a backup of the Home dir with the ARCHIVE command in port 2. > Then open the filer (the built-in, no WR's one) and go to port 2, then > right arrow in the home backup and again in the hidden dir (it's > backup). There I get a warmstart. It happens every time that I try. > Saludos > Jorge M. Valenzani ==== > I don't have any problems accessing the '' directory > in a port 2 archive. I can see EMC.cfg, Alarms, UserKeys, > and UserKeys.CRC. -27 (complex number display), -90 (CHOOSE:mini font) -95 (algebraic mode, I would prefer if cleared in default!) Just press RESET on page 2 of the menu set by FLAGS from the menu you get with letftshift-hold MODE (save your own flags unless you have them in your STARTUP). Then enter the builtin filer and your HOME backup clearly a flag setting problem. All user flags should be reset. If it still works, then my only hypotheses is that it depends on which day you loaded ROM 19-6 and from where. It is unlikely that it is a hardware bug on my and Jorge's calc. Clearly, I detached *all* libs before starting my experiments, whith ON&C and holding down the Backspace key. ==== This is what I did: - purged everything from all ports, - pressed ON-A-F, - entered ARCHIVE(:2:ABC) - used the built-in filer to browse to port2->ABC->'' without any problems. Thomas > >I don't have any problems accessing the '' directory >in a port 2 archive. I can see EMC.cfg, Alarms, UserKeys, >and UserKeys.CRC. > -27 (complex number display), > -90 (CHOOSE:mini font) > -95 (algebraic mode, I would prefer if cleared in default!) Just press RESET on page 2 of the menu set by FLAGS from the menu > you get with letftshift-hold MODE (save your own flags unless you have > them in your STARTUP). Then enter the builtin filer and your HOME backup > clearly a flag setting problem. All user flags > should be reset. If it still works, then my only hypotheses is that it > depends on which day you loaded ROM 19-6 and from where. It is unlikely > that it is a hardware bug on my and Jorge's calc. Clearly, I detached > *all* libs before starting my experiments, whith ON&C > and holding down the Backspace key. ==== This is what I did: - purged everything from all ports, > - pressed ON-A-F, > - entered ARCHIVE(:2:ABC) > - used the built-in filer to browse to port2->ABC->'' > without any problems. All unnecessary. You did not the really important: RESET the flags (these are reset by a warmstart only partially). An affect of flags was considered also in JYA's last posting. ==== This is what I did: > - pressed ON-A-F, > All unnecessary. You did not the really important: RESET the flags What are you talking about? ON-A-F is the most sure way to reset your flags. I did what you say to do: RESET all flags. Even if I reset the flag I can't reproduce any problems you describe (entering library doesn't work anymore and warmstart when entering empty name directory). On a side note, I don't see in ANY way how adding in the 1.19-7 the search capabilities could affect browsing library. I didn't touch any part of that code. And when you see how modular the filer source code is, changing one thing isn't going to affect something else ==== > I don't have any problems accessing the '' directory > in a port 2 archive. I can see EMC.cfg, Alarms, UserKeys, > and UserKeys.CRC. That means you don't play my TETRI. a pitty. It will create a new topic on your APPS browser, called Games, which itself is a nice browser :-) It follows, the phenomenum probably depends on some flag setting. But even this is diffcult to find out. Perhaps I should send you my STARTUP. Very unlikely that it depends on the attached libs. ==== Wolfgang Rautenberg schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I don't have any problems accessing the '' directory > in a port 2 archive. I can see EMC.cfg, Alarms, UserKeys, > and UserKeys.CRC. [..] > Very unlikely that it depends on the attached libs. > Here I have to jump in. Of course the stability of your calc depends on (amongst other reasons) the installed libs, and what they do in the system! A small program bug can cause unpredictable results, which can come up long time later than the cause itself. I'm quite sure that's very difficult to *know* at some point if the environment has some invalid pointers, or configuration information. So the first thing to check such behaviour is with a clean calc, *without* your bells and whistles (*Man), and *without* Nosy or any other external libs. A clean calc is one with empty ports, and empty HOME (ON-A-F) BTW: Detaching all libs isn't sufficient, of course. As I said above, the environment bugged by a crazy program doesn't always repair itself through a warmstart. Flag settings may have influence to certain behaviour, but the points mentioned above have higher priority, so they have to checked first. Here I jump out of the discussion. Raymond ==== Wolfgang Rautenberg schrieb: > Very unlikely that it depends on the attached libs. > Of course the stability of your calc depends > on (amongst other reasons) the installed libs, > and what they do in the system! I'm using only libs written by experts :-). But clearly, for safety, all libs should be detached in the strong sense (the LIB key shows the port-entries only). > and *without* Nosy or any other external libs. > A clean calc is one with empty ports, and empty HOME (ON-A-F) I use the 49 long enough and had to overcome many problems. What you say here seems to be exaggerated. Meeting your condition is nearly impossible on a 49 with already over a Megabyte of tools. Hence, I ask JYA: Doing ON&A&F, with equally detaching all libs with backspace and Port0 and Port1 empty, can then still remain any viruses in the RAM and is this not as good as cleaning the 49 completely, Port2 included? > Flag settings may have influence to certain behaviour, As a matter of fact, they have a strong influence on the behaviour of the ROM in the HP49, not only on what you see. I'm not talking on the CAS here. But this is an own subject for later discussion. ==== > Hence, I ask JYA: Doing ON&A&F, with equally detaching all libs with > backspace and Port0 and Port1 empty, can then still remain any viruses > in the RAM and is this not as good as cleaning the 49 completely, Port2 > included? No... Except if you have your STARTUP file calling them. ==== > into the OS and not taking up a 128KB RAM in slot 1. > Build-in 128KB extra RAM already MERGEd to the main RAM. > Build-in 256 RAM module in (internal) slot 1. > Build-in 1MB Flash RAM (no need for batteries) in slot 2. > Build-in ALG49/Erable49 as CAS (with enhancements) > Build-in ... this could go on forever. > PS: I almost forgot: MASD in ROM, Hacker tools in ROM, ... If only HP would combine all this with some decent hardware... You can say that again! I'm willing to PAY for a new HP 50G with real keys and Urroz Books I&II as (extra) manuals ==== !!** The one that will replace to 49G, aprox will come for August **!! I wanted to flame, towards the general direction of HP management, but i > decided to hold back. He he! But some little tiny flames may have helped that HP management to come back to the right way ;-) > Anyway, after years of lurking (except some few posts) i am now here. > I'll inform HP to deny calculator sales to any Tsiros on this world ;-) Greetings, Nick. ==== If you go to the HP.COM web site they show a HP49 picture for the calculator link. When you go there they do not list an HP49 as an option. The only list 10bii, 12c, 30s, 39g, 48Gx, 9g, and 9s. If they have indeed killed the 49g I say good bye. The way HP is going I may have to buy 5 HP41CX and 5 HP48GX off EBAY as a life time supply of RPN calculators. The thought of using a algebraic unit makes my cringe. Just my $0.02US worth. ==== THIS SPRING !!! Maybe the Web is out of date? > If you go to the HP.COM web site they show a HP49 picture for the > calculator link. When you go there they do not list an HP49 as an > option. The only list 10bii, 12c, 30s, 39g, 48Gx, 9g, and 9s. If > they have indeed killed the 49g I say good bye. The way HP is going I may have to buy 5 HP41CX and 5 HP48GX off EBAY > as a life time supply of RPN calculators. The thought of using a > algebraic unit makes my cringe. Just my $0.02US worth. ==== > THIS SPRING !!! Maybe the Web is out of date? Strange, so why would HP have the 49G omitted from their product range at; http://www.shopping.hp.com/cgi-bin/hpdirect/shopping/scripts/generic_store/g eneric_subcategory_view.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0229758247.1044044112@@@@&BV_En g ineID=ccdcadchgmmmghhcfngcfkmdfondfgg.0&category=calculators&subcat1=graphin g &cat_level=1&browse_link=true Maybe, it's a last burst of production to satisfy back-orders. Hopefully it's replaced by something like you are predicting with the 50GX+ or whatever. Richard S. ==== X > Hopefully it's replaced by something like you are predicting with > the 50GX+ or whatever. Yeah! AND Carly Fiorina resigns saying that she has betrayed The HP way All hope is gone and there are no more RPN calculators. The Dark Lord Sauron has cast a spell on your calculators and soon everybody is calculating in Algebraic Mode PS: There is always a rainbow after a heavy storm and what do you find at the end of the rainbow? ==== > PS: There is always a rainbow after a heavy storm > and what do you find at the end of the rainbow? Mud? -Joe- ==== > If you go to the HP.COM web site they show a HP49 picture for the > calculator link. When you go there they do not list an HP49 as an > option. The only list 10bii, 12c, 30s, 39g, 48Gx, 9g, and 9s. If > they have indeed killed the 49g I say good bye. The way HP is going I may have to buy 5 HP41CX and 5 HP48GX off EBAY > as a life time supply of RPN calculators. The thought of using a > algebraic unit makes my cringe. Just my $0.02US worth. This was the response Quote Unfortunately, HP no longer carries the 49g calculator. You can still find the calculator on the web by searching for '49g' at the following sites. http://shopping.yahoo.com http://www.froogle.com Unquote Looks like HP49G is obselete V strange. Aubrey. ==== Quote >Unfortunately, HP no longer carries the 49g calculator. You can still >find the calculator on the web by searching for '49g' at the >following >sites. >http://shopping.yahoo.com >http://www.froogle.com >Unquote Looks like HP49G is obselete >V strange. The Fry's in Palo Alto just got a dozen or so HP 49Gs in stock. They want only $10 over list for them. Sincerely, Bob Corbett ==== This was the response Quote >Unfortunately, HP no longer carries the 49g calculator. You can still >find the calculator on the web by searching for '49g' at the >following >sites. >http://shopping.yahoo.com >http://www.froogle.com >Unquote Looks like HP49G is obselete >V strange. Aubrey. While it sounds bad, it might not be. A couple of years ago, the HP 48GX disappeared from HP's online store. I called HP's telephone sales number and was told that the HP 48GX was discontinued. A few months later, HP 48GXs were in plentiful supply (and I bought 4 of them). Sincerely, Bob Corbett ==== > Unfortunately, HP no longer carries the 49g calculator. ::Puzzled face:: ==== The speed is ok: On my 40G it took 10320.7 seconds (2h 52min) to get > the result. Believe it or not, it took 12275.4935 to get the result on the HP 49G. > That's quite a big difference, 3.40 hours compared to 2h 52min. What? Why is that? Has the HP49G to do additional things while calculating 9999! ? > Does anyone else venture to try it on a 49G? Oh man, perhaps during weekend, but I just can't wait 3.4 hours until it can be used again. I can't promise to try it, but I promise to try to try it. Greetings, Nick. ==== > Believe it or not, it took 12275.4935 to get the result on the HP 49G. > That's quite a big difference, 3.40 hours compared to 2h 52min. What? Why is that? Has the HP49G to do additional things while > calculating 9999! ? I have no idea, that's why I am waiting for someone to confirm this. It cannot be possible that a little 40g can beat the 49g at any calculation, especially with such a time difference. > Does anyone else venture to try it on a 49G? Oh man, perhaps during weekend, but I just can't wait 3.4 hours until > it can be used again. I can't promise to try it, but I promise to try > to try it. Ok, looking forward to your results, if any. -- Al ==== Believe it or not, it took 12275.4935 to get the result on the HP 49G. > That's quite a big difference, 3.40 hours compared to 2h 52min. What? Why is that? Has the HP49G to do additional things while > calculating 9999! ? I have no idea, that's why I am waiting for someone to confirm this. It > cannot be possible that a little 40g can beat the 49g at any calculation, > especially with such a time difference. > Does anyone else venture to try it on a 49G? Oh man, perhaps during weekend, but I just can't wait 3.4 hours until > it can be used again. I can't promise to try it, but I promise to try > to try it. Ok, looking forward to your results, if any. 10779.744 sec for 9999! 2 hours 59 minutes 39.74 sec on my hp49g version 1.19-6 Denis Doyon ==== Believe it or not, it took 12275.4935 to get the result on the HP 49G. > That's quite a big difference, 3.40 hours compared to 2h 52min. What? Why is that? Has the HP49G to do additional things while > calculating 9999! ? I have no idea, that's why I am waiting for someone to confirm this. It > cannot be possible that a little 40g can beat the 49g at any calculation, > especially with such a time difference. > Does anyone else venture to try it on a 49G? Oh man, perhaps during weekend, but I just can't wait 3.4 hours until > it can be used again. I can't promise to try it, but I promise to try > to try it. Ok, looking forward to your results, if any. 10779.744 sec for 9999! 2 hours 59 minutes 39.74 sec > on my hp49g version 1.19-6 > Approx. the same like on my HP49G: 10910.632 seconds - that is about 3 hours and 2 minutes. Greetings, Nick. ==== > Does anyone else venture to try it on a 49G? > Oh man, perhaps during weekend, but I just can't wait 3.4 hours until > it can be used again. I can't promise to try it, but I promise to try > to try it. > Ok, looking forward to your results, if any. 10779.744 sec for 9999! 2 hours 59 minutes 39.74 sec > on my hp49g version 1.19-6 That's still quite a bit slower than a 40g which is 2 hours and 52 min. Maybe libraries and all the extra loaded stuff slow down the 49g a little bit? How long would this take on a 48gx? -- Al ==== I was wondering how mine could have taken 30 something hours when the > real 49g > did within 24 hours. > Even 24 hours are too much compared to the 3 hours that ivan reported. > Is the HP40 so much faster? By within 24 hours I meant that it did it any time from 0 hours to 24 > hours. I am > still unsure of exactly how long it took. I would assume it would be equal > to or less > than your result. OK, now I got it. > I do not want to waste batteries like this, though, I > got an exam > today :) Experimenting can be dangerous, one way or another;-) Greetings, Nick. ==== Yes, it does, but as the calculation time is so long, the time to > display the beast should be of minor importance. Or am I wrong here? If you have a look at what TEVAL decompiles to, no it doesn't. The > display code is buried somewhere in the System Outer Loop (SOL), but > TEVAL has to finish before control returns to the SOL. However it indeed seems to be of minor importance. I put a ZINT of > about 35000 1's on the stack (agreed, that's only *close* to the test > case, but far easier to construct...) and then ran :: > ' :: ClrDAsOK ?DispStack ; > xTEVAL > ; and got 0.4309 seconds. Greetings > Thomas Greetings, Nick. ==== Hey the windows calculator can do 99999!, not exact solution, but it gives the correct scientific exponent. It even pops up a nice box saying that the calculation might take a while, several of those boxes actually. Anyway, the result is 2.8242294079603478742934215780245e+456568. Didn't take too long either, under a minute. -- Al ==== > Hey the windows calculator can do 99999!, not exact solution, > but it gives the correct scientific exponent. It even pops up a > nice box saying that the calculation might take a while, several > of those boxes actually. Anyway, the result is 2.8242294079603478742934215780245e+456568. Didn't take too long either, under a minute. Not only is the exponent correct, but so are all the digits! Scott -- Scott Hemphill hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu This isn't flying. This is falling, with style. -- Buzz Lightyear ==== > What? Oh no! Then the only thing I can think of is > sum(log(n),n=1,9999). Or do these calcs have also no sums? Greetings, > Nick. Sum(x=1,9999,Log(x)) works fine on the 40G: in about 3 1/2 minutes you get the answer of 35655.45... which means 9999! has 35656 digits. But - as Jordi posted (message #41) - the info screen at the CAS history gives the answer much faster. Another interesting task would be to pick up the n-th digit of long integers as the above discussed. Axel ==== i created a t49 file with WinHP but i don't know how to display it on my hp49. I know that you need a special libray. I found tgvplus on hpcalc.org. there are two files in the zip-archive: tgvplus.lib and tgv49.hp. In order to display the t49 files i transfered them in binary mode to my home-dir and moved the *.lib to port 1. What's the difference between these two files? Is it necessary to transfer both files to the hp49? What should i do to display my t49 file? thx! Stefan ==== Is it possible to get MTRW to use a minifont? I have set Font-7 in the MODE menu. ==== > Is it possible to get MTRW to use a minifont? Yes: -72 SF. Unfortunately, that also changes the stack display to mini-font. << -72 SF -43.2 KEYEVAL -72 CF > 43.2 ASN changes the MTRW key (in USER mode) to automatically flip into the mini-font for the MatrwxWriter and then flip back to your font of choice when it exits. Hope this helps! -Joe- ==== That help alot, thank you. > Is it possible to get MTRW to use a minifont? Yes: -72 SF. Unfortunately, that also changes the stack display to > mini-font. << -72 SF -43.2 KEYEVAL -72 CF > 43.2 ASN > changes the MTRW key (in USER mode) to automatically flip into the mini-font > for the MatrwxWriter and then flip back to your font of choice when it > exits. Hope this helps! -Joe- ==== More Math Fun from the Land of the Easily Amused! Do 8, square root, RDZ. Then: 3*RAND +8*RAND -5*RAND -6*RAND +7*RAND -8*RAND -9*RAND -3*RAND = 1. My gut feeling is that the above is totally *unexpected*. And yet, the only reason I went looking for it was because I *expected* it to occur. Hmmm. -Joe- -So many paradoxes, so little time- Expect the unexpected -- full-page advertisement by KLM airlines in Time magazine on the page facing the story about the Tenerife disaster in which two KLM 747's collided. ==== >More Math Fun from the Land of the Easily Amused! Do 8, square root, RDZ. Then: 3*RAND +8*RAND -5*RAND -6*RAND +7*RAND -8*RAND -9*RAND -3*RAND = 1. My gut feeling is that the above is totally *unexpected*. >And yet, the only reason I went looking for it was because I *expected* it >to occur. Hmmm. -Joe- -So many paradoxes, so little time- Expect the unexpected -- full-page advertisement by KLM airlines in Time >magazine on the page facing the story about the Tenerife disaster in which >two KLM 747's collided. > The story is very unexpected...... IIRC the Tenerife disaster was caused by a KLM 747 colliding on the runway with a Pan Am 747 during take-off.......... Arnold ==== > IIRC the Tenerife disaster was caused by a KLM 747 > colliding on the runway with a Pan Am 747 during > take-off.......... Quite right. I stand corrected. Or, to be precise, I sit corrected. -Joe- ==== > perhaps space and time are quantized too. We thought that the world > were continuous because we had *perceived* it continuous for ages. > Yes, the modern physics seems to say that everything is quantisized > so we live in a world of massive hoard of integer quatums. > ****************************************************** > The real numbers exist only in mathematics! > ****************************************************** Don't forget that the quantum itself looks more like real number. Look at h*f for example. > I left a lot at the bottom just to say that I am more on Nicks side here > only to emphasize on the fact that I think of JKH to think totally > in math way where there is a point pi *exactly* and as an abstract > thing in our minds it is real, but since everything seems to be quantums > in the physical world there are no absolutely perfect circles and > the irrational numbers seem to be well - irrational... Not necessarily so. What you say will be the case only if pi isn't some integer multiple of a space quantum. Also don't forget that one can exactly and very strictly do geometric construction of, say, sqrt(2), so irrational doesn't have to be irrational. > something to keep the vacuum of space from boiling you, of course. Why, the space vacuum is boiling! Didn't you know that?! You mean fluctuations because of Heisenberg? > The Complex Nick Karagiaouroglou. > (With such a family name I have to be complex ;-)) > Greetings and thanks a lot for this posting. > I'm glad that my calculator can use Complex Numbers. > It may even help me to calculate the value of Nick > BUT to be precise I rather use the greek letter gamma > to represent Nick in an absolute infinite precision amount. He, he, I hope you (don't) know what gamma means apart from the letter ;-) OK, I am gamma (radiation), are there other letters here? Greetings, Nick. ==== > [OT] [EB] [RO] [TON] [OT] [EB] > What was that? Your proposed keyboard layout for > the single row of rubber keys which should remain > labeled? ;-) ??? OT = Off Topic The thread had become a discussion about the reality of reality in an apparent reversal of Hamlet's famous question, To be or not to be? which assumes a contrariety between existing and not existing. -Joe- ==== > [OT] [EB] [RO] [TON] [OT] [EB] > > What was that? Your proposed keyboard layout for > the single row of rubber keys which should remain > labeled? ;-) ??? OT = Off Topic The thread had become a discussion about the reality of reality in an > apparent reversal of Hamlet's famous question, To be or not to be? which > assumes a contrariety between existing and not existing. -Joe- Lucky gentle ! If he knew, we wouldn't have that work. Sometimes it is better to not know... Greetings, Nick. ==== I was in Algebraic Mode [NPV] > [OT] [EB] [RO] [TON] [OT] [EB] > What was that? Your proposed keyboard layout for > the single row of rubber keys which should remain > labeled? ;-) ??? OT = Off Topic The thread had become a discussion about the reality of reality in an > apparent reversal of Hamlet's famous question, To be or not to be? which > assumes a contrariety between existing and not existing. -Joe- ==== Does anybody know of good books on the 49G? MC ==== > I have both of Urroz's books, in electronic format only, and have printed > them myself. Over the two volumes there is something like 700+ pages. do you have Kazaa?? ==== > >I have both of Urroz's books, in electronic format only, and have printed >them myself. Over the two volumes there is something like 700+ pages. > do you have Kazaa?? Goddamnit! You should be supporting Urroz for doing a good job! I'm a poor student, but I've just bought the book online, because I've now heard too many good things about his books and I want to support the man for doing a good job. If you're interested in the book, then you should go buy it. That's my opinion. ps: I can give you a feedback, when I'm finished with volume 1, if you want it. Martin J. ==== > >I have both of Urroz's books, in electronic format only, and have printed >them myself. Over the two volumes there is something like 700+ pages. > do you have Kazaa?? Goddamnit! You should be supporting Urroz for doing a good job! I'm a poor student, but I've just bought the book online, because I've > now heard too many good things about his books and I want to support the > man for doing a good job. If you're interested in the book, then you should go buy it. That's my > opinion. ps: I can give you a feedback, when I'm finished with volume 1, if you > want it. Martin J. It was a joke (just in case). Send me the feedback on the book asap please, gonna get the hard copy if its good. [AC] ==== In message , Andres > I have both of Urroz's books, in electronic format only, and have printed > them myself. Over the two volumes there is something like 700+ pages. do you have Kazaa?? That would be the file swapping software wouldn't it? I hope that you're not suggesting that mr helps you cheat Mr Urroz out If you're a regular user of Kazaa then I suggest that you read http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/28286.html and take careful note of just how easily the users were tracked and caught. -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== > In message , Andres > I have both of Urroz's books, in electronic format only, and have printed > them myself. Over the two volumes there is something like 700+ pages. do you have Kazaa?? That would be the file swapping software wouldn't it? I hope that you're not suggesting that mr helps you cheat Mr Urroz out If you're a regular user of Kazaa then I suggest that you read > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/28286.html and take careful note > of just how easily the users were tracked and caught. Yeah! That's how they nailed me and confiscated my computer. It took me more than a month to get back here! NOT ;-) Seriously! I'm holding Urroz's Vol.2 on my lap right now. Science and Engineering Mathematics with the HP 49 G VOLUME II Uni- and Multi-Variate Calculus, Ordinary and Partial Differential Equations, Statistics Kazaa these paper pages if you can!!! The best thing about the saecond volume is that it gives a real life example of various vector function operators to let the reader to get a grip of what the math is useful for. PS: I studied this book again for almost half an hour without noticing it first. ==== I can highly recommend both books by Gilbert Urroz. I also bought them at www.greatunpublished.com but i decided on the hard copy. These books are in my opinion far beyond any otherr i have read on the HP49 topic. I was on the verge of selling my brand new calculator due to the poor material provided by both the vendor and HP. But these books really did it for me, they are are a good and easy way to get really accuanted with the HP49. So I do not Sincerely Lars L ==== > I want to ask you a question. It is possible to change the picture > showed in every warmstart and how can I make it? I think not because it is hard-coded in the system booter. You can, however, put some program into the STARTUP file so that a warmstart ends up with your picture, simliar to that at the start of the huge Demo library 1234 which comes with every new HP49. Send me your favourite picture (maybe in greyscale) and I'll make a program with a your picture, asking you by the way for your language choice and then fading slowly away by itself to the default screen. ==== I want to ask you a question. It is possible to change the picture > showed in every warmstart and how can I make it? I think not because it is hard-coded in the system booter. You can, > however, put some program into the STARTUP file so that a warmstart ends > up with your picture, simliar to that at the start of the huge Demo > library 1234 which comes with every new HP49. Send me your favourite > picture (maybe in greyscale) and I'll make a program with a your > picture, asking you by the way for your language choice and then fading > slowly away by itself to the default screen. No doubt about the appropriate picture: Shakira. ==== > Send me your favourite >picture (maybe in greyscale) and I'll make a program with a your >picture, asking you by the way for your language choice and then fading >slowly away by itself to the default screen. > > No doubt about the appropriate picture: Shakira. > Can you make one with Anna Kournikova for me? :-) I hope I spelled that name right... BTW: I wouldn't have asked, but now you're offering it yourself :-) (You don't have to do it if you don't want. I live i Denmark.) Martin J. ==== Those winboot logo pictures could be send to www.hpcalc.org in th graphics section. Maybe even tools to build them automatically? > Send me your favourite >picture (maybe in greyscale) and I'll make a program with a your >picture, asking you by the way for your language choice and then fading >slowly away by itself to the default screen. > > No doubt about the appropriate picture: Shakira. > Can you make one with Anna Kournikova for me? :-) > I hope I spelled that name right... BTW: I wouldn't have asked, but now you're offering it yourself :-) > (You don't have to do it if you don't want. I live i Denmark.) Martin J. > ==== I found this fantastic 15C simulator for PocketPC: http://www.lygea.com/pocket15cdetail.htm Works just like a real calc, only better - bigger matrices, more program steps, view whole stack and all registers at once, cut and paste, etc. Graphic of calc is beautiful. The author has done a brilliant job. It's not free like Emu48, but it doesn't cost much and is perfect if you just want something simple, yet powerful, like the good ole 15C. I think we should support quality work like this that keeps RPN and the old HP way alive. ==== Looks good. However, at least my Jornada 690 has a nice RPN calculator simulation built-in, which also has the faceplate look of a Vojager series model. It's called OmniSolve, and it's included with the machine. Raymond BTW: I hate pseudonyms in newsgroups and forums, and it's just bad style;-) SaveRPN schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I found this fantastic 15C simulator for PocketPC: > http://www.lygea.com/pocket15cdetail.htm > Works just like a real calc, only better - bigger matrices, more program > steps, view whole stack and all registers at once, cut and paste, etc. > Graphic of calc is beautiful. The author has done a brilliant job. It's not > free like Emu48, but it doesn't cost much and is perfect if you just want > something simple, yet powerful, like the good ole 15C. I think we should > support quality work like this that keeps RPN and the old HP way alive. ==== OmniSolve is a nice business calc which can do RPN. It has a few scientific functions and unit conversions, but it really doesn't compare to a 15C. It's not programmable, has only one storage register, no matrices or complex numbers, and so on. I merely hoped to share a good find with the 15C fans in the group. My thoughts about this software are genuine, and I have no connection with the author of this software. I do hope this software sells well because it helps keep RPN and HP calcs alive, when the best HP can do lately isn't much better than a $10 Casio. BTW: My right to privacy and anonymity when posting a simple observation in a public forum has nothing to do with style. I happen to dislike emoticons, but I don't go out of my way to insult those who use them ;-) > Looks good. However, at least my Jornada 690 has a nice > RPN calculator simulation built-in, > which also has the faceplate look of a Vojager series model. > It's called OmniSolve, and it's included with the machine. Raymond BTW: I hate pseudonyms in newsgroups and forums, > and it's just bad style;-) > SaveRPN schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I found this fantastic 15C simulator for PocketPC: > http://www.lygea.com/pocket15cdetail.htm > Works just like a real calc, only better - bigger matrices, more program > steps, view whole stack and all registers at once, cut and paste, etc. > Graphic of calc is beautiful. The author has done a brilliant job. It's > not > free like Emu48, but it doesn't cost much and is perfect if you just want > something simple, yet powerful, like the good ole 15C. I think we should > support quality work like this that keeps RPN and the old HP way alive. ==== > BTW: My right to privacy and anonymity > when posting a simple observation in > a public forum has nothing to do with style. > Sorry, I can't agree here. In most serious forums pseudonyms are a no-no. Of course you can do what you like, and the world will continue to turn w/o your real name. I for myself will think it over to even answer to no-names/pseudo-names... (no emoticons here due to obvious reasons) Have a good day Raymond ==== > BTW: My right to privacy and anonymity > when posting a simple observation in > a public forum has nothing to do with style. > Sorry, I can't agree here. > In most serious forums pseudonyms are a no-no. > Of course you can do what you like, > and the world will continue to turn w/o your real name. > I for myself will think it over to even answer to no-names/pseudo-names... > (no emoticons here due to obvious reasons) So, I guess you won't respond to this, then? Okay, I'll change my name to David Jones. Would that make you feel better? I take it that you each case to be sure? How do we know you're who your headers suggest? Perhaps you should attach a passport picture to prove it? ==== The 6th and last part of the Sequences, Series and Limits Marathon is ready. I uploaded the marathon to www.hpcalc.org yesterday where it will be available when the server will be updated. This part contains progs for finding if functions are continuous at a certain point or interval, find discontinuities (removable or not removable), ennhancements for the built-in lim function for finding limits of piece wise defined functions at junctions, how to find limits of functions of more than one variables, about epsilon, precision and accuracy on the HP49G, visualizations of epsilon-delta(epsilon) relations for functions, enhanced contour plots that draw curves and not only line segments, and much more. There is also an update of the trig. marathon (again) which corrects some errata. (Also available at hpcalc or directly from me.) Greetings, Nick. P.S.: Next Marathon is about Calculus. Hurrah!! ==== AFAIK the marathons are chocolateware :-) I will send you a big piece Peter Lott ==== AFAIK the marathons are chocolateware :-) I will send you a big piece Peter Lott ==== > AFAIK the marathons are chocolateware :-) > I will send you a big piece > Peter Lott Yummy! Greetings, Nick. P.S.:When I'll have collected enough chocolate, I'll try to open a chocolate museum. Not virtual, I mean real! Has anybody noticed how the shape of the HP49G resembles the shape of a bar of chocolate? Must be careful in future ;-) ==== AFAIK the marathons are chocolateware :-) I will send you a big piece Peter Lott ==== >P.S.: Next Marathon is about Calculus. Hurrah!! Garth ==== >P.S.: Next Marathon is about Calculus. Hurrah!! Garth You're vary welcome Garth. Greetings, Nick. ==== > You did not definitely say YES, I want a keymap switcher. So > let's see whether some other people will be interested in that. > X > YES, I want a keymap switcher Veli, this message is extra for you. Next time when you vanish from this NG let your PC in the meantime collect the postings of some selected people :-) It's realized long time ago in last version of Keyman from my site and, of course, documented in Keyman.txt. Maybe it's already on hpcalc.org. ==== > I don't understand the question. What is xls? Maybe somebody > else could reply :-) > Microsoft Excel worksheet file format > Maybe he could download the values as a space/comma delimited file > (as a string/text file) to his HP 49G. 1. perhaps you should answer to the poor guy in whatsever language. For me all kinds of Microsoft stuff are b.9amische D.9arfer :-) 2. You asked for a keymap switcher. It was realized a while ago in the latest version of Keyman, maybe already on hpcalc.org. should disassemble his own UsrRPL programs in a SysRPL editor and rewrite it in SysRPL. IMHO, this is too difficult for beginners. This may be difficult even for a SysRPL-programmer! As an example I take the eigenvalue command xEGVL which after argument checking and dispatching calls flashpointer MATEGVL. It's very hard to follow the runstream of this program which among other things computes first the characteristic polynomial of the matrix, then looks whether it is decomposable in exact mode which also depends on whether in real or complex mode, etc etc. Thus, the SysRPL programmer would give up and will be happy with FPTR^MATEGL even if switched to complex mode already earlier :-) Programming the CAS in SysRPL and ML must have been very hard and its author(s) deserve full respect. Only very simple UsrRPL commands are easily understood and may be taken for extracting of what is needed for a SysRPL program. + is such a command, not too simple and not too difficult. One earns a lot from this. The UsrRPL + decompiles as follows where I replaced all builtin bints by temporary bints. These start with the symbol #. That is very useful for watching how the dispatching really runs: :: CK2&Dispatch (check among other things for 2 arguments) # 11 (aha, if there are two reals on the stack simply do %+) %+ (this adds *only* reals, crashes with other arguments!) # FFFF (FF is the dispatch type of zints, only on the HP49) FPTR 6118 (this is FPTR^QADD which adds 2 zints or 2 polys etc) # 12 PTR 10103 (add a real and a complex number) % 21 PTR 100DB (add a complex and a real number) . . (and so on over twenty lines, for adding lists, graphics etc). . # 3 (the very last dispaching of the + command) PTR 39CB3 (add a n y user object and a string) ; @ Now the student should hack these pointers in sequence. E.g., the last pointer decompiles as :: SWAP DECOMP$ SWAP&$ ; Interesting, because we now understand how the calc adds an object and a string: First the object is swapped in and turned into a string. And since SWAP&$ is just :: SWAP &$ ; it is swapped back. Then the two strings are finally added. Both SWAP and &$ are written in ML and extremely fast upon which the SysRPL programmer can safely rely. Is learning SysRPL as easy as learning UsrRPL? Unfortunatly not. Apart from that there are about 6000 SysRPL commands but only 600 UsrRPL commands there are still dozens of undocumented pitfalls. Avoiding these needs a lot of experience. For instance, the command CK2&Dispatach above distinguishes zints and reals, but the similar command CK&DISPATCH1 does not, i.e., it tacidly converts a zint into a real before beginning the dispatching. Clearly, JYA knows all his tricks, but we poor SysRPL programmers are forced to learn this all w i t h o u t any reasonable document, just by trial and error or by Remember, the RPL manual doesn't cover the 49, and what I just told is not yet in Programming in SysRPL (will be in the next edition since I tell such things to Eduardo and Carsten). Their book will be the bible the HP49 and I hope they continue improving their work. ==== > should disassemble his own UsrRPL programs in a SysRPL editor and > rewrite it in SysRPL. > IMHO, this is too difficult for beginners. This > may be difficult even for a SysRPL-programmer! The same sentence could be applied to your approach ( hacking other people's SysRPL programs) > As an example I take the > eigenvalue command xEGVL which after argument checking and dispatching > calls flashpointer MATEGVL. It's very hard to follow the runstream of > this program which among other things computes first the characteristic > polynomial of the matrix, then looks whether it is decomposable in exact > mode which also depends on whether in real > or complex mode, etc etc. Thus, the SysRPL programmer would give up > and will be happy with FPTR^MATEGL even if switched to complex mode > already earlier :-) Programming the CAS in SysRPL and ML must have been > very hard and its author(s) deserve full respect. I agree here. But you don't need a hard search in hpcalc.com to find a SysRpl program so hard to follow as this command. You can always let untouched a command that you don't completely understand. But is extremely difficult to digest a complete program if you can't figure out one of its combinations of commands (may be a combination of runstream commands. These are hard to follow sometimes). The obvious conclusion is that one must be careful choosing the target and my suggestion go in this direction. Given that you made the program, you control its flow and commands (avoiding the use of complex CAS commands or any other) then you can concentrated in SysRpl. I must say that this would be done hacking a program too, but you need to be very lucky to start with an easy enough example (may be you can suggest a list for that purpose). This don't invalidate my point by no means. > Saludos Jorge M. Valenzani ==== > For instance, the command > CK2&Dispatach above distinguishes zints and reals, but the similar > command CK&DISPATCH1 does not, i.e., it tacidly converts a zint > into a real before beginning the dispatching. That must be corrected because it sounds as if CK&DISPATCH1 would always convert a zint into a real if the dispatchee BINT1 for reals occurs. The truth is that if you want a zint input to *stay* a zint and not be converted into a real, the dispatchee bint # FF for zints must *procede* a possible dispatchee BINT1 for reals in the dispatching sequence. You see how easy it is to be caught by the additional pitfall of a not quite clear fromulation. ==== Sch.9anen Dank f.9fr das ver.9affentlichen des Problems aber das musste Gr.9fsse uss Kassel Rolf ==== Is it possible to create a table showing the x and y values for an equation on the 48? //mark ==== >Is it possible to create a table showing the x and y values for an >equation on the 48? > Go to www.hpcalc.org. Search on Aaron Wallace. I believe his Power plot has a table function. He also has a separate version of just the table IIRC. alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) ==== My table program comes as both a built-in to PowerPlot as well as a stand-alone. You can get the latest version from my website: http://leviathan.orblivion.com/hp48/software/index.shtml Aaron >Is it possible to create a table showing the x and y values for an >equation on the 48? > Go to www.hpcalc.org. Search on Aaron Wallace. I believe his Power plot has a > table function. He also has a separate version of just the table IIRC. > > alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please > (Use the obvious) ==== Create your own UserRPL program, or have a look at various programs at www.hpcalc.org (Mathtools by Jack Levy for instance) Caspar Mark & Connie schreef in bericht > Is it possible to create a table showing the x and y values for an > equation on the 48? > //mark > ==== I was wondering if anyone uses niMH batteries in their calculators. I own a digital camera so I already have the charger and I'm contemplating purchasing a set of 4 niMH AAA batteries to use in my 48GX so I basically will never have to replace them again... Has anyone already tried this? -Adrian ==== >I was wondering if anyone uses niMH batteries in their calculators. I own a >digital camera so I already have the charger and I'm contemplating >purchasing a set of 4 niMH AAA batteries to use in my 48GX so I basically >will never have to replace them again... Has anyone already tried this? I did try and am back with batteries. The low-batt warning was very late. If you want to use NiMHs, carry a (charged) spare pack (or better spare alkalines, they don't discharge as much when not in use) got less than 5 minutes ! Pete ==== I'm have a HP-48G+ and HP-49G and use three (3) Probattery (NiMh 600mA 1,2 V). This permit to 1000 charges, and are excellent. With this i'm contribute with the planet. Don't contamine this with alkaline batteries. Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK **************************************************************************** *** > I was wondering if anyone uses niMH batteries in their calculators. I own a > digital camera so I already have the charger and I'm contemplating > purchasing a set of 4 niMH AAA batteries to use in my 48GX so I basically > will never have to replace them again... Has anyone already tried this? > -Adrian ==== I'm currently trying to set up an alarm on a new HP-4G+. The alarm message appears on the display, OK, at the designated time, but the calculator's buzzer doesn't sound. I've set flag 57 correctly, according to the manual. Have I missed something? Should I suspect a hardware fault? -- the warning buzzer works just fine. Any ideas? -- sq -- sq ==== Strange-to-relate, unbeknownst to me flag -57, & not 57, was the relevant flag. Fortunately I was selecting the feature via the flag menu in modes, & so was insulated from my mistake -- well, that one :) Turns out my problem was that I was quoting my message incorrectly: using '' rather than ; in HP parlance: my appointment alarm became a control alarm, & hence didn't beep. -- sq ==== > I'm currently trying to set up an alarm on a new > HP-4G+. The alarm message appears on the display, OK, at the > designated time, but the calculator's buzzer doesn't sound. I've set flag 57 correctly, according to the manual. Have I > missed something? Should I suspect a hardware fault? > -- the warning buzzer works just fine. Perhaps you're clearing flag 57 instead of flag -57? Perhaps you're setting flag -57 instead of clearing it? That's all I can think of... having made those same mistakes myself. -Joe- ==== I'm thinking of buying Science and Engineering Mathematics with the HP 49 G - Volume 1 but after looking at his sample chapter I have a bit of a problem. I've come accross a couple errors that stopped me for a while already. One of his RPN intro exercise has an [enter] in place of a + And later in Flags making an example of the General Solutions flag he gives an equation that won't solve unless the calc is in Complex mode, but doesn't tell you this. It took me an internet search to get past this one. Are these two errors in his selling example indicative of the whole manual? And also, what reader to I need to view the Ebook version? Al... ==== new filer48 version 2.03 now with viewer of small and big font http://www.geocities.com/jaimezacalcs/hp/filerhp48.zip ==== I/O port of the calc, but the only thing iÇve found is about the rx,tx,gnd,and shield pins. whatÇs the purpose for the other 6? I think some of then have something to do with the screen since i accidentally connected two of them and the contrast went almost black, but, is there any information about this? thank you in advance -- sorry if thereÇs any language mistakes. IÇm not english. ==== > the I/O port of the calc, but the only thing iÇve found > is about the rx,tx,gnd,and shield pins. whatÇs the > purpose for the other 6? I think some of then have something to do with the > screen... Correct. HP sells a large LCD panel that plugs into the HP49 (and a few other models) for use on an overhead projector. It's perfect for a large room full of HP calculator users and other endangered species. Anybody know where the HP49G serial port pinout can be found? Hpcalc.org perhaps? -Joe- ==== > Anybody know where the HP49G serial port pinout can be found? Hpcalc.org > perhaps? -Joe- IÇve searcheh hpcalc with the following topics pinout pin cable and even readed the documents about radio and IR modules for the 49 but they all use only the rx,tx,gnd,shield pins for their purpose, so nobody talks about the remaining pins thank you ==== It does work...thanks! -Jennifer > anyone please tell me how to enter piecewise and step functions on the > HP48GX? I'd really appreciate it. You might like to try a trick for the piecwise defined functions that > works well on the 39G. I would think it would also work on the 48 but I > don't have one to test on. > The trick is to divide by the domain of the function. > For example, suppose that the function was: > f(x)= x+5 for x<=-2, 10-x^2 for -21 > On the 39G you would enter this as three functions F1(X),F2(X) and F3(X) > as below. > F1(X)=(X+5)/(X<=-2) > F2(X)=(10-X^2)/((X>-2) AND (X<=1)) > F3(X)=(5-X)/(X>1) > When you graph this you will, on the 39G at least, get a perfect display > with the discontinous portions of the graph not joined by 'vertical' > lines as they often are with other methods (such as using an IFTE > definition). > The reason why it works is that the domain is a True/False test that > evaluates to 1 within the domain and zero outside it. This means that > within the domain the function is being divided by 1 (no effect) but > outside it is being divided by zero (undefined, so not graphed). > You can see some pictures of the result (on a 39G) if you go to > http://www.hphomeview.com/faqs_40-49.htm#47 ==== I have recently bought a HP48+ with Cynox 512k RAM. When I check the memory size (MEM) i get the result 127780.5. Does this mean that I still only have 128K RAM or is it possible that they have installed 512K but the calculator can not show it. ==== > I have recently bought a HP48+ with Cynox 512k RAM. When I check the memory > size (MEM) i get the result 127780.5. Does this mean that I still only have > 128K RAM or is it possible that they have installed 512K but the calculator > can not show it. > Press LS LIBRARY / PORTS. What do you see? ==== This memory is conected to port 2-xx. You can use 128kB in port 0, there is attached HOME directory (where you store common data). The 512kB is divided into ports 2-xx. You can store here some librarires. HP48 has also one expansion port - port 1. Port 1 could be merged into the port 0. You can have 256kB memory to store common data (HOME directory) with ports 0+1 and you can have up to 4MB RAM in ports 2-xx. HP48GX has two slots for RAM cards - one for port 1 (128kB cards) and one for port 2-xx (up to 4MB). Your calculator is like HP48G+ (standard version has 128kb in port 0 only, but Cynox added memory to port 2). I think that you can't use port 1. The standard command (I don't know name) can only display amount of memory in port 0 (or +1 merged). Vojtech Sazel > I have recently bought a HP48+ with Cynox 512k RAM. When I check the memory > size (MEM) i get the result 127780.5. Does this mean that I still only have > 128K RAM or is it possible that they have installed 512K but the calculator > can not show it. > --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). ==== This memory is conected to port 2-xx. You can use 128kB in port 0, there is attached HOME directory (where you store common data). The 512kB is divided into ports 2-xx. You can store here some librarires. HP48 has also one expansion port - port 1. Port 1 could be merged into the port 0. You can have 256kB memory to store common data (HOME directory) with ports 0+1 and you can have up to 4MB RAM in ports 2-xx. HP48GX has two slots for RAM cards - one for port 1 (128kB cards) and one for port 2-xx (up to 4MB). Your calculator is like HP48G+ (standard version has 128kb in port 0 only, but Cynox added memory to port 2). I think that you can't use port 1. The standard command (I don't know name) can only display amount of memory in port 0 (or +1 merged). Vojtech Sazel > I have recently bought a HP48+ with Cynox 512k RAM. When I check the memory > size (MEM) i get the result 127780.5. Does this mean that I still only have > 128K RAM or is it possible that they have installed 512K but the calculator > can not show it. > --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). ==== i want to ask does anyone know HP earn or lose money on HP49g? i havent do much calculation like b4, and now i need, but i found out everywhere selling their 49g 32sii like a double price.. and hp dont have it... how sad........ ==== Manel. Today I transfered a program to the hp49g with conectivity kit version XMODEM 1.0.9. (x49kit2) and appeared a message Connection error. Please check your connections. Whith version 1 SubVer 2 Build 17(x49kit) I have no problems to transfer files but when I wanna rename a file or I wanna delete more than one item at once the error appears. With v1.0.9 ther error appears too. With HP connectivity kit 3.00 r04 I have no problems (well it's so slow..) I use the cable suplied by HP Espa.96a. Cable, RS adaptor, and two adaptor for connecting two hp48's or connect a hp49 to hp48. I use a digital multimeter to check cables are good and the result is the follow: HP-49 wire connector ________*________ _______*_______ | 1 2 3 4 5 |--0 | A B C D E |--0 | 6 7 8 9 10 | | F G H I J | ----------------- ----------------- TO PC ADAPTOR TO HP-49 HP49-PC ADAPTOR __________________ ______*_________ e d c b a / | 5 4 3 2 1 | i h g f /--0 |10 9 8 7 6 | ------------- ----------------- SIDE to connect to PC here you connect HP49 wire (*) means a mark to plug it on the correct way I have found only this connections. On cable: 1 --0--A--0 ; 7 -- G ; 8 -- I ; 9 -- H ; 10 -- J (2,3,4,5,6 y B,C,D,E,F ARE NOT CONNECTED) ON adaptor: 0 -- 10 ; b -- 8 ; c -- 9 ; e -- 7 Have I my cable ok? Are they the normal connections? Notice the adaptor has less connection than cable. If it is ok. What is the function of rest of the pins? Sorry but I am not English. -------------------------- CABLE DE CONEXI.94N DE HP-49 ________*________ _______*_______ | 1 2 3 4 5 |--0 | A B C D E |--0 | 6 7 8 9 10 | | F G H I J | ----------------- ----------------- al adaptador del PC A la calculadora HP-49 EL ADAPTADOR DE HP49 AL PC __________________ ______*_________ e d c b a / | 5 4 3 2 1 | i h g f /--0 |10 9 8 7 6 | ------------- ----------------- parte que se Aqu.92 se conecta conecta al PC el cable de la HP-49 Con un mult.92metro (la opci.97n que suena un pitido si dos cables tiene conexi.97n) he comprobado las conexiones de KIT de conexi.97n. En el cable: 1 --0--A--0 ; 7 -- G ; 8 -- I ; 9 -- H ; 10 -- J NO hay ninguna conexi.97n m.87s (el 2,3,4,5,6 y B,C,D,E,F NO EST.8dN CONECTADOS) En el adaptador de HP49 a PC 0 -- 10 ; b --- 8 ; c -- 9 ; e -- 7 ËEs normal que el adaptador tenga menos conexiones que el cable? ËPara qu.8e sirven las dem.87s conexiones? ==== Excuse me for the off topic isse. Reading the local paper, regarding yesterday's tragedy, I saw a photograph of the crew, where Mr Anderson was with a calculator's picture on his chest (shirt). Did anyone else notice the familiar image published on his shirt ? (meaning it looks pretty much like the 48GX, doesn't it) only a routinary procedure. The truth is that every time is an epic. Anyhow, my sympathy to all the crew families, -- Carlos Lacroze Buenos Aires, Argentina ==== > Reading the local paper, regarding yesterday's tragedy, > I saw a photograph of the crew, where Mr Anderson > was with a calculator's picture on his chest (shirt). > Did anyone else notice the familiar image published on > his shirt ? (meaning it looks pretty much like the 48GX, > doesn't it) If anybody finds a copy of that photo on the Web, please post its URL here. Here's a stock photo of Michael P. Anderson: http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/portraits/anderson.jpg He was 42 years old and had a master's degree in physics from Creighton University, so it's safe to surmise that was familiar with HP calculators. -Joe- I was scared. Everyone is scared. I think the biggest thing that holds a lot of people back is the fear of taking that first step to go out and take the challenge. I really want to encourage kids to decide what it is they want to do and figure out the best way to achieve that and then go out there and take the chance and try to do it! -- Astronaut Michael P. Anderson, encouraging over 150 undergraduate minority students at DePaul University to pursue careers in science, math, engineering and technology fields. ==== helps. papers web site, cause though its not good, it's better than the one I could scan. should find a small picture. Press it to enlarge it. I'm still not sure if it was the 48GX cause it's a bad image. It seems it was taken on january 20th, according to its credits, which by the way was signed as AP, so perhaps we can get a better quality picture from the people at Associated Press (agency). BEHIND: ILAN RAMON, KALPANA CHAWLA, WILLIAM MC COOL Y LAUREL CLARK. IN FRONT: DAVID BROWN, RICK HUSBAND Y MICHAEL ANDERSON. (Foto: AP) Carlos Lacroze Buenos Aires, Argentina -- Reading the local paper, regarding yesterday's tragedy, > I saw a photograph of the crew, where Mr Anderson > was with a calculator's picture on his chest (shirt). > Did anyone else notice the familiar image published on > his shirt ? (meaning it looks pretty much like the 48GX, > doesn't it) If anybody finds a copy of that photo on the Web, please post its URL here. > Here's a stock photo of Michael P. Anderson: > http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/portraits/anderson.jpg > He was 42 years old and had a master's degree in physics from Creighton > University, so it's safe to surmise that was familiar with HP calculators. -Joe- I was scared. Everyone is scared. I think the biggest thing that holds a > lot of people back is the fear of taking that first step to go out and take > the challenge. I really want to encourage kids to decide what it is they > want to do and figure out the best way to achieve that and then go out there > and take the chance and try to do it! -- Astronaut Michael P. Anderson, > encouraging over 150 undergraduate minority students at DePaul University to > pursue careers in science, math, engineering and technology fields. ==== you > should find a small picture. Press it to enlarge it. > I'm still not sure if it was the 48GX cause it's a bad image. It seems it > was taken on january 20th, according to its credits, which by the way was > signed as AP, so perhaps we can get a better quality picture from the people > at Associated Press (agency). That is without a doubt a 48G family calc. Steve Sousa ==== > That is without a doubt a 48G family calc. For those with doubts here's another pic: http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101030210/sctone.html True HP fan, took his calc to space and showed it in the pics, which of us wouldn't? Both (an the others) died for a noble cause. Greetings Steve Sousa ==== One more day to go for this HP41CX combo. at ebay. If you need parts for you 41CX and manuals, this is absolutely the last chance: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2304774436& rd=1 Good Luck bidding, Kevin. > Wrong newsgroup. For things like that, > please use the classified ads section of www.hpmuseum.org Raymond Superman schrieb im Newsbeitrag > HP41CX (not working) plus FA-2 cassette adaptor interface for auction: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2304774436 Happy Bidding ! > Corrction this should be : FA: HP41CX(not working) with 2 manuals............although the link is > right. Kevin. ==== Actually, in the past, 2 HP41C where used on Columbia 1 containing a program to calculate the balance point (center of gravity) of the shuttle upon reentry (and I do not remember what the other one was doing). At one point in time, they where the primary system, and as more and more computers got integrated within the shuttle, they drift to a backup role before being completely removed from the program 10 years ago. > One more day to go for this HP41CX combo. at ebay. > If you need parts for you 41CX and manuals, this is absolutely the last chance: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2304774436& rd=1 Good Luck bidding, > Kevin. Wrong newsgroup. For things like that, > please use the classified ads section of www.hpmuseum.org Raymond Superman schrieb im Newsbeitrag > HP41CX (not working) plus FA-2 cassette adaptor interface for auction: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2304774436 Happy Bidding ! > Corrction this should be : FA: HP41CX(not working) with 2 manuals............although the link is > right. Kevin. ==== Does anyone know how to get the cube (or odd) root of a negative number without going into complex mode in the 49g? My calculator appears to not be able to get the cube root, for example, of -1 without going into complex mode. And even then it will give me a huge fractional answer with i in it. I went into y= and placed x^3 and then went to the table. It can handle that but then in the regular home screen it does not solve it. I'm a high school student taking calculus and am the only one using a 49g. everyone else uses a ti83+. Any way, it's kind of embarrasing having a calculator that cannot find the cube root of -1. If i remember correctly, it used to be able to do this before. Maybe i need to change the setting or reinstall something. ~Nekkyo ==== <79380bc6.0302022026.45d659c1@posting.google.com>, > Does anyone know how to get the cube (or odd) root of a negative > number without going into complex mode in the 49g? My calculator appears to not be able to get the cube root, for > example, of -1 without going into complex mode. And even then it will > give me a huge fractional answer with i in it. I went into y= and > placed x^3 and then went to the table. It can handle that but then in > the regular home screen it does not solve it. I'm a high school student taking calculus and am the only one using a > 49g. everyone else uses a ti83+. Any way, it's kind of embarrasing > having a calculator that cannot find the cube root of -1. If i > remember correctly, it used to be able to do this before. Maybe i need to change the setting or reinstall something. > ~Nekkyo In exact mode the cube root of negatives comes out complex, if at all, but in approximate mode, the cube roots of negatives come out negative. Or just be sure the number you are cube rooting has a decimal point, if you want to be sure of a real cube root. In exact and mode: -1 3 XROOT returns '(1+i*sqrt 3)' whereas -1. 3 XROOT returns -1. In aproximate mode: -1 3 XROOT returns 'EXP((0.,1.0471975512))' whereas -1. 3 XROOT returns -1. If the HP49 is in real mode when it wants to return a complex result, it will prompt you for permission to switch. ==== What font size are you using on your HP49G for: stack? editor? menues? EQW? I am using the 4*5 minifont for all. I have no idea wether this applies to the other HPs as well, so answer at will. Michael ==== Ils ont le meilleur compagnon de vie nos petits! Grosses bises .88 partager. -- > Reading the local paper, regarding yesterday's tragedy, > I saw a photograph of the crew, where Mr Anderson > was with a calculator's picture on his chest (shirt). > Did anyone else notice the familiar image published on > his shirt ? (meaning it looks pretty much like the 48GX, > doesn't it) If anybody finds a copy of that photo on the Web, please post its URL here. Here's a stock photo of Michael P. Anderson: http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/portraits/anderson.jpg He was 42 years old and had a master's degree in physics from Creighton University, so it's safe to surmise that was familiar with HP calculators. -Joe- I was scared. Everyone is scared. I think the biggest thing that holds a lot of people back is the fear of taking that first step to go out and take the challenge. I really want to encourage kids to decide what it is they want to do and figure out the best way to achieve that and then go out there and take the chance and try to do it! -- Astronaut Michael P. Anderson, encouraging over 150 undergraduate minority students at DePaul University to pursue careers in science, math, engineering and technology fields. ==== Now that my 49G and I have 'got to know each other a little' I'm at the point of writing a few simple programs. I've quickly realised that it's pretty hopeless to do this on the 49G itself - and I understand that it's possible to write the programs on a PC (notepad?) and then transfer them to the 49G ... ... could someone please give me the basic steps to follow to accomplish this? - I have the serial cable and a spare comms port - but no idea as to what comms software to use, or what buttons to puch on the 49G. Any help truely appreciated. Many thanks, KJJ ==== > I'm at the point of writing a few simple programs. > I've quickly realised that it's pretty hopeless to do this on > the 49G itself - here both, UsrRPL and SysRPL programming. Clearly, you have to load a few additional rather huge tools, in particular the libraries extable, Emacs, SDIAG and some other very small stuff. But once you've got it I guess you'll never return to programming on the PC. Although I'm writing with 10 fingers blind on a PC keyboard, I'm much faster in progamming on the calc itself. And I have *immediate* control and not any quite often misleading emulator control ... There are people like JYA and others who're making their programs on a PC or leptop. But I like programming in an armchair or at the fresh air, without a heavy leptop on my knees, and I can do it at holydays, even at a boring talk or party or ... ==== > I've quickly realised that it's pretty hopeless to do this on the 49G > itself If you look at www.hpcalc.org you'll find several libraries written by me. You can safely assume that I have coded at least hundred times as much which I haven't released to the public. I have never coded on a PC for the HP49G - every nibble is programmed on the calculator itself. ==== My first UserRPL program (which I'm going to post here for your kind comments later :) tries to fill a result matrix on its run. The problem is that I would like the first column of the matrix contain the descriptions of the rows, like: [ [ 'Observations' 19.3456 23.4566 45.67 ] [ 'Refraction ' 0.0039 0.0039 0.0039] ] (so that the results matrix could be transferred to a PC, and then get pretty-printed somehow, with decriptive comments). Unfortunately, it seems like both 49g and 48gx don't allow strings being matrix cell's contents. Is there any way to work around this? -- Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.