B99 ==== HP49G for comparable operations? Also happy holidays, Hmmm, I'm not sure, but you're probably right...let me run a couple of tests--invert some matrices and do some integration, etc.... Roger ==== Hey Nick: > Hmmm, I'm not sure, but you're probably right...let me run a couple of > tests--invert some matrices and do some integration, etc.... Roger > Oh, crap! I just tried to start up the trusty old 49G--and nothing happened!! (yes, as a matter of fact, I did check the batteries....) Oh my, oh my, the sky is falling, Roger ==== can anybody tell me the differences between the old Indonesia and the new China built ones, if any? I read somewhere in the group that the Chinese ones should have better keyboards and screens. Can that be confirmed by experience? I have an Indonesian one S/N: ID937.... Werner Luehmann ==== In general, the HP-49G original from CHINA (CN), is better, but only have (in many cases) a little problem ... the internal capacitor or condenser. The Solution: If you have a problem, or know any case, must be change the condenser with other of 1000 microfarad's and 6.3 volts. Warning with the connection. Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK **************************************************************************** *** can anybody tell me the differences between the old Indonesia and the > new China built ones, if any? I read somewhere in the group that the > Chinese ones should have better keyboards and screens. Can that be > confirmed by experience? I have an Indonesian one S/N: ID937.... > Werner Luehmann ==== The keyboard is less stiff ever since the HP 39/40 models were introduced The solid screen cover is acrylic and will not scratch easily Also the rainbow effect is greatly reduced. I have _never_ had any hardware problems with my HP 49G I'm happy with my Indonesian model (with the serial bug) can anybody tell me the differences between the old Indonesia and the > new China built ones, if any? I read somewhere in the group that the > Chinese ones should have better keyboards and screens. Can that be > confirmed by experience? I have an Indonesian one S/N: ID937.... > Werner Luehmann > ==== > which I'd like to share with the HP49 user's. > What must I do? Only give the HP49 users the source code listing for your program. They can use the tools built into the HP49 to recompile/reassemble your program into HP49 binary form. The HP48 binary form of your program will be of no use to HP49 users, unfortunately. -Joe- www.holyjoe.org ==== > which I'd like to share with the HP49 user's. > What must I do? Only give the HP49 users the source code listing for your program. They can > use the tools built into the HP49 to recompile/reassemble your program into > HP49 binary form. The HP48 binary form of your program will be of no use to HP49 users, > unfortunately. -Joe- > www.holyjoe.org Ok thanks, but will the same exact code work in the HP49? ==== > Ok thanks, but will the same exact code work in the HP49? Yes, if: (a) only named and supported HP49G commands are used; (b) the last line of the source code is an @ by itself; and (c) if flag -92 is clear, you must add two extra first lines: !NO CODE !RPL If there are any other differences, somebody will append them to this thread. -Joe- ==== > which I'd like to share with the HP49 user's. > What must I do? > Only give the HP49 users the source code listing for your program. They can > use the tools built into the HP49 to recompile/reassemble your program into > HP49 binary form. > The HP48 binary form of your program will be of no use to HP49 users, > unfortunately. > -Joe- > www.holyjoe.org Ok thanks, but will the same exact code work in the HP49? Answering myself: no it doesn't work. I'm using DEFINE z LAM z at the beginning of the program (as it was suggested in RPLMAN.DOC) for making the use of local vars easier/more clear. That seems to be causing errors. Is there any HP49 equivalent to that or must each z in the file be changed? miz. ==== > I'm using DEFINE z LAM z at the beginning of the program (as it was > suggested in RPLMAN.DOC) for making the use of local vars easier/more > clear. That seems to be causing errors. Is there any HP49 equivalent > to that or must each z in the file be changed? It *does* work. Please try again. Example, with flag -92 set (MASD System RPL mode): DEFINE z LAM z :: z ; @ ASM --> :: LAM z ; Was the @ missing as the last line in your 49G source code? The 49G requires it, for some bizarre reason. -Joe- ==== > I'm using DEFINE z LAM z at the beginning of the program (as it was > suggested in RPLMAN.DOC) for making the use of local vars easier/more > clear. That seems to be causing errors. Is there any HP49 equivalent > to that or must each z in the file be changed? It *does* work. Please try again. Example, with flag -92 set (MASD System RPL mode): DEFINE z LAM z > :: > z > ; > @ ASM --> :: LAM z ; Was the @ missing as the last line in your 49G source code? The 49G > requires it, for some bizarre reason. -Joe- I did put the @, but what is the ASM--> :: LAM z ; part? Should I have included that? One more thing, when I created the library for the HP48 I put three vars in $VISIBLE. Those were the vars that you saw when you entered the library menu but the rest of the programs could still be evaluated. In the HP49 it seems as if the only vars you can evaluate are the ones included in $VISIBLE. Should I include all the subroutines in $VISIBLE? Is that a feature I don't understand or what am I getting wrong? Oh! thanks a lot for your help. The hidden directory thing is already working but I noticed a difference there, in the HP48, after doing the SYSEVAL I had to EVAL, in the HP49 no (what's more, EVAL produces an error and stops the rest of the program because there is nothing to evaluate!) but that was easy to fix. ==== > ASM --> :: LAM z ; I did put the @, but what is the ASM--> :: LAM z ; > part? Should I have included that? That's shorthand for: Execute the ASM command, and the result will be :: LAM z ; Example: 1 2 + --> 3 means ... well, I'm sure you can figure that one out. ;-) > One more thing, when I created the library for the HP48 I put three > vars in $VISIBLE. Those were the vars that you saw when you entered > the library menu but the rest of the programs could still be > evaluated. In the HP49 it seems as if the only vars you can evaluate > are the ones included in $VISIBLE. Should I include all the > subroutines in $VISIBLE? Is that a feature I don't understand or > what am I getting wrong? The program names included in $VISIBLE become the *named* commands in the library. The rest of the programs get their names *removed*, and are accessed only by XLIBs. Isn't there a $HIDDEN or something like that, which allows you to have named commands whose names are not displayed in the library's menu? I haven't used CRLIB in eons, but others here are experts and I'm sure that they will give you either the details or a pointer to them. -Joe- ==== > To me, the most efficient calculator shall meet these criteria: > It need to be small enough to fit in my shirt pocket so I can have in > with me all the time. It must be solid and reliable. It must have a real HP keyboard like the 41. It must use RPN since I feel this is the most efficient system. It must have a few storage registers. It must have a good batteries life (a few months at least). As I can see, the 32-Sii seems to be the best machine that will fill > the bill. It is too bad it has been discontinued. yes, I couldn t agree with you more! When I bought my 49G, my first HP ever, I realised that RPN was fantastic, but the keyboard was so stiff that I couldn t do calculations quickly enough. And when it comes to exams, this is not good. So I bought a 32Sii just 1 or 2 days before it was discontinued, because it was the only cheap RPN sci model available by HP. I must admit that I wasn t expecting much of it, BUT I was so impressed by the capabilities of it, by the VERY GOOD keys and by the excellent manual that I never use the 49G for number crunching any more. I like my 49G, but I love my 32Sii, because it reflects the philosophy of a different era! I don t have any doubts that an improved 32Sii with more memory, a two line display and infinite stack would sell like crazy. What HP doesn t seem to realise is that besides students, there are other people in the world, like engineers, programmers, managers etc., which don t want fancy colours and covers, but the traditional power and characteristics of the old HP models, that I wasn t lucky enough to enjoy, since I m only 24. Why don t they split their Calculator department in two parts? :-) Alex Markatis from Athens, Greece Civil Engineer ==== X > I don t have any doubts that an improved 32Sii with > more memory, a two line display and infinite stack > would sell like crazy. X it's called HP 42S ==== > I don t have any doubts that an improved 32Sii with > more memory, a two line display and infinite stack > would sell like crazy. it's called HP 42S The 42S did not have an infinite stack. Nor the amount of memory we expect nowadays. Its two-line display was hard to read (compared with most other HP calculators). But it was its annoying method of entering alpha characters and its lack of key assignments which made me stop using it. Every calculator with more functions than keys ought to have a USER mode in which most (if not all) of the keys can be remapped at will, so that the functions I need NOW are available NOW with one keystroke. -Joe- ==== > The 42S did not have an infinite stack. For them as hasn't one, Pioneer series (including business models) have a variable stack, but only up to four levels (and not less than 1) > Nor the amount of memory we expect nowadays. But it doesn't need as much memory, in part due to more compact programming, less graphics, and the fact that its only input device is the keyboard (why didn't anyone ask for a 2-way I/O? Maybe they realized that this adds both expense and bulk) Tons of memory can now fit in a tiny package, but there's no way to use it without substantial 2-way I/O capability. > Its two-line display was hard to read > (compared with most other HP calculators). My Pioneers are a bit easier to read than my 48/49, because the lines are just about the same size (actually 1 character longer), and on some LCDs slightly taller and distinctly clearer. > But it was its annoying method of entering alpha characters > [via a 2-keystroke character menu which appears only in alpha mode] > E.g. [ABCDE] [FGHIJ] ... -> [A] [B] [C] [D] [E] ... Well, also a very neat way of reducing keyboard clutter! But 6-character strings (from HP41) might also be mentioned (a consequence of memory organized into fixed-length registers, each the size of a real number, which has all obviously changed in the subsequent graphing calcs with RPL objects). > and its lack of key assignments which made me stop using it. But it does have a custom menu, with a somewhat unlimited number of assignments (six visible at a time, just like HP48/49), dynamically changeable using the ASSIGN command (I set up mine with commands which also chain to a sequence of alternates). So, did the HP32SII have any of these things? If you've stopped using them, are you auctioning them off? > Every calculator with more functions than keys ought to have > a USER mode in which most (if not all) of the keys > can be remapped at will, so that the functions I need NOW > are available NOW with one keystroke. I thought that even the HP48G had 2300 functions (according to some HP literature about it); how many non-keyboard functions do *you* actually have available with *one* keystroke? (and don't you lose some keyboard function every time you assign another?) With so many funcitons existing internally, there's a musical chairs limitation to how many can be on the keyboard at any one time; one interesting variation to the keyboard theme is where the keyboard itself is a touch screen, and its keys change function as you use them. A well thought out illustration of the power of this approach is Calc98, downloadable from http://calculator.org (who also say gradients instead of gradians, so Why can't the English teach their students how to speak? :) Its uncluttered keys have only one legend each, which often change when you press Shift; in RPN mode its M in and MR keys become STO and RCL and its = key turns into Enter, etc. (for fun, try the Roman numeral mode :) Aren't similar techniques used in popular pocket devices? [r->] [OFF] . ==== > For them as hasn't one, Pioneer series (including business models) > have a variable stack, but only up to four levels (and not less than 1) I thought that they always had exactly 4 levels which, when cleared, were merely set equal to 0 (like the HP-41 and all previous HP calculators). Am I wrong? > Nor the amount of memory we expect nowadays. But it doesn't need as much memory, in part due to > more compact programming, less graphics, and the fact that > its only input device is the keyboard Quite right. > (why didn't anyone ask for a 2-way I/O? > Maybe they realized that this adds both expense and bulk) > Tons of memory can now fit in a tiny package, but there's > no way to use it without substantial 2-way I/O capability. An HP42S with I/O was shown around at the PPC Conference at which the 42S itself was first introduced... but the I/O was a hack, and was never intended for mass production, unfortunately. It would've been easy, since the HP-41 and HP42S used the same internal hex codes for programs, if I remember correctly, which is rare, if I remember correctly, which is rare, if I remember correctly. > My Pioneers are a bit easier to read than my 48/49, > because the lines are just about the same size > (actually 1 character longer), and on some LCDs slightly taller > and distinctly clearer. I guess I'm spoiled by my 49G with its screen cover removed: http://holyjoe.org/nowin1.jpg > But it was its annoying method of entering alpha characters > [via a 2-keystroke character menu which appears only in alpha mode] > E.g. [ABCDE] [FGHIJ] ... -> [A] [B] [C] [D] [E] ... Well, also a very neat way of reducing keyboard clutter! Heh heh! Then I suggest a keyboard with only two keys. That would minimize keyboard clutter! And it's all you really need, if keystroke efficiency is not a concern. Or how about just one double-state key, such as a right/left toggle key, or a single-click/double-click key, or a hard-press/soft-press key? The possibilities are endless (ask users of KEYMAN! :) My favorite is no keys at all, with a direct neural interface, so that Big Brother can keep track of the times that you attempted to do anything > If you've stopped using them, are you auctioning them off? No. Since eBay apparently only lets you sell things that you made yourself, I can't. ;-) I'm afraid that I gave away both of my 42S's. No, I do not have one any more. :-( > I thought that even the HP48G had 2300 functions (according to some > HP literature about it); how many non-keyboard functions > do *you* actually have available with *one* keystroke? > (and don't you lose some keyboard function > every time you assign another?) The answer to that question changes from day to day, which was my whole point. I make key assignments and blow them away again all the time, whenever it feels that doing so would reduce the overall number of keystrokes. Wanna see the list of my *current* key assignments? It's a long list. Some are interesting. > With so many funcitons existing internally, there's a musical chairs > limitation to how many can be on the keyboard at any one time; > one interesting variation to the keyboard theme is where > the keyboard itself is a touch screen, > and its keys change function as you use them. Agreed! I'd *love* to have keys with LCD's in 'em and a thick hunk of optical fibers between the surface of the LCD and the surface of the key, so that it would look as if the display were actually on the very surface of the key. Folks here have said that such a thing is too expensive to be practicable, but SOME DAY it might be doable. -Joe- ==== JKH> The answer to that question changes from day to day, which was my whole JKH> point. I make key assignments and blow them away again all the time, JKH> whenever it feels that doing so would reduce the overall number of JKH> keystrokes. Wanna see the list of my *current* key assignments? It's a JKH> long list. Some are interesting. I definitely would like to see the interesting ones! - Carsten ==== > My favorite is no keys at all, with a direct neural interface, so that Big > Brother can keep track of the times that you attempted to do anything Ask Rcobo, he already did similar experiments and utterly defeated BB. No danger anymore ;-) > Agreed! I'd *love* to have keys with LCD's in 'em and a thick hunk of > optical fibers between the surface of the LCD and the surface of the key, so > that it would look as if the display were actually on the very surface of > the key. Folks here have said that such a thing is too expensive to be > practicable, but SOME DAY it might be doable. Actually I have seen a similar keyboard years and years ago in former Yugoslavia. It had not a mini LCD, but a red LED point matrix on every key, which was showing the character that each key produced. When you pressed the shift button, the characters on the LED matrices changed, indicating what the new keyboard assignments were. It was a bit hard to work with it for longer time, since the LEDS it just started looking more and more like the night in Las Vegas, but I guess that using LCD instead of LED could make things better. Or perhaps a pressure sensitive flexible screen, and you write your inputs on it! Greetings, Nick. ==== . > Every calculator with more functions than keys ought to have a USER mode in > which most (if not all) of the keys can be remapped at will, so that the > functions I need NOW are available NOW with one keystroke. It would be nice to have that, but to me, at least, it is not essential. Indeed, I would give it a pretty low priority. And yes, I do use my calculator at work. My $0.02, Bhuvanesh. ==== > X > I don t have any doubts that an improved 32Sii with > more memory, a two line display and infinite stack > would sell like crazy. > X > it's called HP 42S I really wish I had one of these, but... :-( Alex Markatis, Greece Civil Engineer ==== > X > I don t have any doubts that an improved 32Sii with > more memory, a two line display and infinite stack > would sell like crazy. > X > it's called HP 42S I really wish I had one of these, but... :-( I have one (and even a hp32sii), and it is a great unit... Don't say 'but', ask for a new hp42s, maybe a hp42sii or even a hp42g.. Who knows? Maybe our praises are hear, don't give up. J.Manrique http://socios.asturlinux.org/jsmanrique Users Club from Gij.97n http://www.etsiig.uniovi.es/asociaciones/clubusu #1077 HPCC Member http://www.hpcc.org ==== What do you mean, The 49g are no longer available? You don't have any, it's discontinued, it's replaced? What? > The 48gx have not been discontinued. The 49g are no longer available. If you need further assistance, please reply to this message with > any additional details. You may also register your product, find > software updates and drivers, and find technical and troubleshooting > information on our HP Customer Care Web site at the following > locations. HP Online Registration: http://www.hp.com/support/register > HP Software and Drivers: http://www.hp.com/support/software > HP Customer Care: http://www.hp.com/support/personal_computing Sincerely, > Alex > HP Customer Solutions support agent ==== I guess HP made the leap to stupid. The new HP 9g/s is supposed to make up for it? LOL! It's crap compared to the 48 series. I sure hope corporate at HP gets a clue....sounds the compaq took over. On Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:43:29 -0500, Thierry Morissette >What do you mean, The 49g are no longer available? You don't have any, >it's discontinued, it's replaced? What? > The 48gx have not been discontinued. The 49g are no longer available. >> If you need further assistance, please reply to this message with >> any additional details. You may also register your product, find >> software updates and drivers, and find technical and troubleshooting >> information on our HP Customer Care Web site at the following >> locations. >> HP Online Registration: http://www.hp.com/support/register >> HP Software and Drivers: http://www.hp.com/support/software >> HP Customer Care: http://www.hp.com/support/personal_computing >> Sincerely, >> Alex >> HP Customer Solutions support agent > ==== Nope! The link to the 49G is beside the HP 48GX once you first go to look at the HP 48GX > What do you mean, The 49g are no longer available? You don't have any, > it's discontinued, it's replaced? What? ==== > where can i get a hp28 rom , i do not have the calculator . You can get it on eBay. And you'll get a free calculator with it! JA JA !!! But , realy were can i get it. Gullec ==== > where can i get a hp28 rom , i do not have the calculator . > > You can get it on eBay. And you'll get a free calculator with it! JA JA !!! But , realy were can i get it. Gullec Guillermo: I believe that Eric is correct--as far as I know, HP hasn't released the 28 ROM to us and so you are supposed to use the ROM from your own calculator--it is considered somewhat bad form to ask other folks if you can have theirs....and, good luck, I think it takes some work to get that dude out of there.... Roger ==== Okay, so now I know. The cable is wrong. I made the 9 pin to 9 pin adapter and tried it again. No joy. So the question is: Is it only the comms that I fry on the 49G? It seems to work otherwise. Man, the IQ (idiot quotient) at HP has reached new levels. Why don't we just put 220v plugs on our 110v corded appliances so that when we go to Europe we can just plug them into 220v. Hey the plug fits, right? But seriously, is it just the comms that takes the hit? Thx ==== > Okay, so now I know. The cable is wrong. I made the 9 pin to 9 pin adapter > and tried it again. No joy. So the question is: Is it only the comms that I > fry on the 49G? It seems to work otherwise. The cable you're using is incorrect. The connection port on the HP49G is made of 10 pins (vs 4 pins on the HP48). For of these pins are used for serial communication, the rest is the video bus output. If you wrongly connect something to these pins, the screen will go off. I suggest that you read www.hpcalc.org and do a search on cables.. ==== Dave Arnett (HP engineer), on choosing the right connector: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=51rq7a%24cu9%40hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com I am not going to put on a spigot that says: I look like a standard something-else, but if you were smart enough to memorize the entire manual you'd know I'll cause damage if you connect me to that something-else and the joke's on you! But that's in fact what happened, on the HP38G through HP49G (hopefully none decided by Dave), which re-used the HP Palmtop connector, almost exactly. More recently produced HP multi-use cables have fixed the problem, by having the HP48 4-pin connector molded directly onto the cable end, then supplying a slip-on 10-pin adapter in which only the four serial pins are electrically connected to anything. Your cable had the 10-pin part directly molded on, with all 10 pins connected, plus an HP48 slip-on adapter in which only the four serial pins come out at the final end, so this works with all HP48 and with HP palmtops, but with *no* 10-pin calculators. Dave also comments why no AC power adapter (and read about the MIDI interface on the OmniBook!) http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3500392B.6C72%40hp.com We'd love to pretend we're technology-driven and blind to market issues. Heck, we'd love to give away calculators for free, just for the simple joy of making life better for nerds everywhere. In the end, we have tended to straddle that fence, meaning some fun-but- unprofitable ideas never make it into production. Others do. Those that hit the market in HP usually have to pay their own way. . ==== > The 48gx have not been discontinued. The 49g are no longer available. If you need further assistance, please reply to this message with > any additional details. You may also register your product, find > software updates and drivers, and find technical and troubleshooting > information on our HP Customer Care Web site at the following > locations. HP Online Registration: http://www.hp.com/support/register > HP Software and Drivers: http://www.hp.com/support/software > HP Customer Care: http://www.hp.com/support/personal_computing Sincerely, > Alex > HP Customer Solutions support agent On 5 Dec 2002 15:32:46 -0800, a.borowski@student.qut.edu.au (Al > >>5662$hM3.635276@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>... >>> >>> Oddly enough, there's a link to the hp49 page on the >>> hp48 one. I think the main problem here may be that >>> HP's web-page authors are incompetent, as usual. >>> >>> IMHO, he's a highly skilled, friendly guy, who has always worked >>> closely with us wild & crazy enthusiasts. The problem is that he's >>> overloaded. Expecting one engineer to handle the entire HP website >>> is ludicrous. My experience has been that the HP engineers are top >>> notch, whereas management and marketing are some other notch. >>Can anyone confirm that the HP49 is discontunied? >>If so, I might but a spare. I take it they don't want to sell a >>product with oper firmware (dunno why, they make money from hardwarwe) It seems that the 49g is back on display and in stock, according to HPs web shop. But the customer care guy maybe right, too. HP probably stopped making them years ago, and since people keep getting new ID9... calculators from 1999 all the time, stocks are probably high... Ingmar ==== > Seen: > degrees, radians, and gradients! Very common usage, e.g. from competitor TI (but who started it?) > http://www.google.com/search?q=degrees+radians+gradients Interesting. Even NIST used it. -- Bhuvanesh ==== > Long time is gone since Cary used to manage the > HP calculator web site (if he's the person you're referring > to) Rats. Yes, I was. Didn't know that Cary M. was gone. > So what's left of your arguments Joe ? :) Smoke & mirrors. ;-) -Joe- -Holy Smoke Incense Company- ==== > Rats. Yes, I was. Didn't know that Cary M. was gone. I think Cary is still at hp.. he just works on something else. > -Joe- -Holy Smoke Incense Company- When you go public, can I buy some shares.. This kind of smoke *must* have some weird side effects and still be legal :) ==== I have a ham radio with a lcd display up in Canada the arctic wastland of the north and it does not crack, just gets a little slow at responding when cold., and it can get cold, 30 below C for instance for horrible weeks at a time (thank God for global warming). On 6 Dec 2002 07:08:08 -0800, top88keys@yahoo.com (Aaron Toponce) >> I just got a used 49g today. With the little user's guide. Where can I get >> any of the other manuals that HP used to have on their web site? >> http://www.hpcalc.org > Also, my display lcd screen seems to 'black out' when it is a little cold ie >> 60F ? >The display is liquid crystal (lcd). LCD begins to solidify at about >50F, freezes around 40F, and actually cracks (unoperable after that) >at 5F. This is average temeratures of course, so individual calcs >(watches, laptops, etc) will have different operating ranges. ==== Sorry if this is a silly suggestion, but have you tried adjusting the contrast (hold ON and press + or - a few times)? Also, my display lcd screen seems to 'black out' when it is a little cold ie > 60F ? ==== Sure did. It was a defective lcd screen. It must have been bad before I got it. I have to let it 'warm-up' then it starts to work okay. I been getting it exchanged monday. > Sorry if this is a silly suggestion, but have you tried adjusting the > contrast (hold ON and press + or - a few times)? > Also, my display lcd screen seems to 'black out' when it is a little cold ie > 60F ? > ==== Can keyman be used to controle keys while in EQW? I hate repeating myself. ==== > Can keyman be used to controle keys while in EQW? I hate repeating myself. No. When you start the EQW the user keyboard is disabled only standard key will work ==== > Can keyman be used to controle keys while in EQW? >> I hate repeating myself. No. >When you start the EQW the user keyboard is disabled only standard key will >work ==== > Can keyman be used to controle keys while in EQW? > No. When you start the EQW the user keyboard is > disabled - only standard key will work Like EQW, most complex applications like editor or Interactive stack or the GRAPH environement disable any user key assignment. Moreover, they use own temporary standard key assignment which only partly agree with the default standard functionality of a key. You can use an application's temporary key functionality by making a key-record with the command K&SA longhold. EXAMPLE: record the key sequence EQW NXT which sets the EQW and at once page 2 of its apps menu, containing the CAS-commands and HELP for those. Then assign to the EQW-key the program << If normally hit set EQW but if longhold set in addition page 2 of the EQW's menu >> This program is made with the IfL-option in the usual way. Thus, if EQW is normally hit, you get page 1, but if hold slightly longer, page 2 of the apps menu is automatically set. You may also start the EQW at once in minifont if you like it, etc. Several other examples are contained in Keyman.txt which should be read before asking in the NG. Keyman.text contains much information on key-functionality which is nowhere else documented. - Wolfgang ==== So I gather it is not possible to use user defined keys in EQW, so I guess I will stop to try. I did read the manual, but was still unclear on if it was possible. I have another question re: keyman. I was trying to assign a program to a key space key using a double click and also a different program to the same space key using a long press. But it did not work. It seems that the key assignment took only for the last assignment and always erased the previous one. Is this to be expected? Stan On Sat, 07 Dec 2002 08:04:49 +0100, Wolfgang Rautenberg >> Can keyman be used to controle keys while in EQW? >> No. When you start the EQW the user keyboard is >> disabled - only standard key will work Like EQW, most complex applications like editor >or Interactive stack or the GRAPH environement >disable any user key assignment. Moreover, they >use own temporary standard key assignment which >only partly agree with the default standard >functionality of a key. You can use an application's temporary key >functionality by making a key-record with the >command K&SA longhold. EXAMPLE: record the >key sequence EQW NXT which sets the EQW and >at once page 2 of its apps menu, containing >the CAS-commands and HELP for those. Then >assign to the EQW-key the program ><< If normally hit set EQW but if longhold >set in addition page 2 of the EQW's menu >This program is made with the IfL-option in >the usual way. Thus, if EQW is normally hit, >you get page 1, but if hold slightly longer, >page 2 of the apps menu is automatically set. You may also start the EQW at once in minifont >if you like it, etc. Several other examples are >contained in Keyman.txt which should be read >before asking in the NG. Keyman.text contains >much information on key-functionality which is >nowhere else documented. > >- Wolfgang ==== > I was trying to assign a program to a key space key using a double > click and also a different program to the same space key using a > long press. You should perhaps be somewhat more precise. Compositions of longpress and double-click on the same non-shifted key like SPC may cause problems as far as I remember. Note that TopKeys on my website under .../HP49/keys contains wonderful examples of compositions of shifthold and longhold. For instance, there is an assignment on LShold pi toggling RAD/DEG if pi is normally hit and the 3 coordinate systems if pi is longhold - while all the time the Leftshift key is hold. This applies in edit mode as well. Longhold and double-click may also be used in library commands as is illustrated by the toggler ~FONT from OT49 (latest version on my site, probably not yet on hpcalc.org). It toggles Minifont and current font if normally hit - independently in default and in edit mode - and it toggles the three builtin fonts if double-clicked. Fast and convenient toggling of Minifont is important for long programming sessions. Toggling the builtin fonts is less important. I use Font7 sometimes for editing SysRPL although it is somewhat ugly :-) - Wolfgang ==== Wolfgang Rautenberg schrieb im Newsbeitrag > [..] > Fast and convenient toggling of Minifont is important > for long programming sessions. Toggling the builtin > fonts is less important. I use Font7 sometimes for > editing SysRPL although it is somewhat ugly :-) > you could try my RayFnt7 for the 49G, which is far more readable than the built-in one. It replaces the system font 7. As a side note, RayFnt7 was the first custom font for the 49G in 1999;-) Raymond Ref: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3335 ==== > you could try my RayFnt7 for the 49G, > which is far more readable than the built-in one. > It replaces the system font 7. As a side note, RayFnt7 was the first custom font for the 49G in 1999;-) on the HP49 ==== > you could try my RayFnt7 for the 49G, > which is far more readable than the built-in one. > It replaces the system font 7. > > As a side note, RayFnt7 was the first custom font for the 49G in 1999;-) > directly > on the HP49 > Yes, but those are only predecessors of 49G built-in fonts (or editor features). And they're bold and italic, and were not specificially made for the 49G. My aim in those days was to have a font in size 7 which I can better read, and so I made this one especially for the 49G;-) In this aspect, it was the first one. Raymond ==== > Yes, but those are only predecessors of 49G built-in fonts (or editor > features). > And they're bold and italic, and were not specificially made for the 49G. Well, the format is exactly the same (and same prologue either)... So anything designed for the MK was also designed for the HP49 then :) My aim in those days was to have a font in size 7 which I can better read, > and so I made this one especially for the 49G;-) In this aspect, it was the first one. If that makes you happy :) ==== There is an application* for the 48 series, that I want to port to the 49. You can find ERROR (5904 bytes), short for error analysis at http://hpcalc.beachnet.org/details.php?id=1486 This UNCERTAINTY CALCULATION PROGRAM -for the 48SX series- adds, subtracts, multiplies, raises to a power, etc. uncertainties, and was done by Jay Kyle, UBC, Chemical Engineering student in 1991/ 93 (v 1.2) Any guidance will be appreciated. According to http://hpcalc.beachnet.org/hp49/docs/faq/#ss4.6 in order, to port User RPL programs one should transfer the program to the 49 in ASCII Kermit mode (or directly from another HP48 using the supplied link cable), making sure the calculator is in both RPN and approximate mode (both non-default) and the program should run fine. I've already tried this with this app and didn't work. It's strange, 'cause it doesn't seem to me at least, that this application was made neither in System RPL nor in assembly language or has any complex command... FAQ > System RPL and assembly language programs are harder to port. You need to get the source code to the program (possibly by disassembling it, but preferably from the program's author) and then recompile it using the HP49 entry points list. Since many System RPL programs use unsupported points, you will need to rewrite parts of the program. It is a very bad idea to use unsupported entry points on the HP49, as they are much more likely to move from one ROM version to another than they were on the HP48. In addition, with some programs, you will have to adjust key detection routines because of the changed keyboard layout. -- Carlos ==== Sounds like you have A new Chinese calc with the power supply capacistor problem. I've seen several of these. Check: http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=asll q4%24bfj%241%40strauss.udel.edu&prev=/groups%3Fdq%3D%26num%3D25%26hl%3Den%26 l r%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26group%3Dcomp.sys.hp48%26start%3D25 Luis > When my calculator is off for 1 minute or more, It reboots when I turn > press the on key. This destroys the information on the stack. Sometimes I > have to press the on key twice to get it to come up. Has anybody else seen > nice day. ==== Have you downloaded any libraries? A corrupt library may be the problem. Boot with backspace key held down. OR Your hardware is faulty, ask for replacement. > When my calculator is off for 1 minute or more, It reboots when I turn > press the on key. This destroys the information on the stack. Sometimes I > have to press the on key twice to get it to come up. Has anybody else seen > nice day. > ==== What's new: -Various bugs fixes -MASD Mode: added GOINA, GOINC, GOINx instructions -Full support for long name files (read the documentation about it) A big thanks to William Graves for his contributionsand the hptools.dll for Debug2 and Debug4x --- Source code and documentation http://www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/product/hptools-src-3.0.8.tar.gz Win32 binary file (native code) http://www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/product/hptools-3.0.8-win32.zip http://www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/product/hptools-3.0.8-linux-i586.tar.gz If these links don't work for you, you can always go there: http://www.hydrix.com/Download/Hp/Hptools But it's only a 128kbit/s line, so don't abuse it... In the meantime, I've submitted them to hpcalc.org, hopefully they will be there soon... ==== > If you want to completely change the behaviour of the HP49 to 'mimic' the > HP48, just buy an HP48. What a useful answer ! [Mode] -> RPN -117 SF (softmenu on) -105 SF (approx mode on) if you want most calculations program to behave like on the HP48 ==== directory. I've tried this on an HP49 and it crashed (it was on emu48, phew ;-)). How can I reach the hidden directory with UserRPL commands in an HP49? miz. ==== > How can I reach the hidden directory with UserRPL commands in HP49? Why do you want to bother? What can you do while in that directory? Try typing a program << >> while there, and see what happens. Try 'X=5.' 'X' SOLVE (from the ALG menu) or replace SOLVE by ISOL (from the S.SLV menu); why do we get a Missing Library error? [this didn't happen in HP48] More about the hidden directory, and how it might be used: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8kuiik%24bvg%241%40nnrp1.deja.com Renaming the hidden directory! (can also be done in HP48): http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3AE7AC07.D463B5BB%40miu.edu [r->] [OFF] . ==== By the way, one problem with the CAS (the need to purge any existing current variable and the inevitable numeric substitution of any defined variables) can sometimes be avoided by performing the CAS command in the hidden directory context (where no user variables at all will appear to exist): For example, as of rom 1.19-6, these will work (SysRPL syntax): But these will produce Missing Library errors: That's why, as my best shot at a general solution for executing CAS commands without affecting either current modes or variables, http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3CB94E4C.AB177E90%40miu.edu So, can the Missing Library problem be avoided, in the envisioned 1.19-7 version? [r->] [OFF] . ==== > How can I reach the hidden directory with UserRPL commands in HP49? > Why do you want to bother? What can you do while in that directory? not familiar with SysRPL. Hence, I fully agree with JHM's - Wolfgang as is suggested in the 48FAQ by running << #15777h SYSEVAL >> is IMHO a bad style approach. Better on the 49 is the program << #3714A SYSEVAL 2. MENU >>. Here SYSEVAL runs the SysRPL ==== Somebody here asked: > How can I reach the hidden directory with > UserRPL commands in HP49? Somebody else here replied: > Why do you want to bother? What can you do while > in that directory? You have GOT to be kidding. WHAT can he DO?!?!? He can LEARN, and have FUN doing so, THAT'S what!!! Isn't that was what this newsgroup is about, for crying out loud? Or are we only concerned with Matters of Consequence here? Holy smokes. A third person here replied to the reply: > I fully agree with [the] suggestion of not launching the if thus-and-such non-standard operation were performed with an HP-65. HP that response that he started the HP-65 Users Club, which was the beginning of the organized international HP calculator user community dedicated to the exploration and enjoyment of HP programmable calculators. This newsgroup is an active branch of that user community. How odd it is, therefore, to see the above Don't do that replies HERE to a user's question about non-standard HP calculator usage! We, who used to be young and excited and playful creatures, apparently have grown old and stodgy and grumpy, sitting in our thickly padded easy chairs, frowning at the younger generation frolicking before us, and growling at them, Don't do that. future self when I post here. After all, some day I will probably get too old to remember what learning and playing mean, and at that time I'll consider them as nothing more than dangerous wastes of time. When that day comes, please promise that you'll all ignore me when I say, Don't do that. -Joe- Ever at play in his presence, at play everywhere on his earth, delighting to be with the children of men. -- Proverbs 8:30f ==== > directory. I've tried this on an HP49 and it crashed (it was on emu48, > phew ;-)). NEVER use HP48 SYSEVAL's on the HP49! The huge majority of 'em have moved to new addresses. > How can I reach the hidden directory with UserRPL commands in an HP49? #3714Ah SYSEVAL. The usual caveats and disclaimers apply. -Joe- ==== > The solution: To change the capacitor of 1000 microfaradios and 6.3 > volts that are inside the 49G. -I donĒt understand how HP can permit this fail, and how a simple > piece can fail. It could be related to: http://www.niccomp.com/taiwanlowesr.htm There were some talks about this in sci.electronics.design not long ago. In your signature you state that you're an Electrical Engineer, can you measure this capacitor ESR, does it have any bulging, singn of leak, etc? Steve Sousa ==== To open a 49G calculator is not so difficult, you only need a manual drill hole to pick up the 6 plastics connection that are behind the batteries, but be very carefull with that, ok. Then you can use any tool to separate the two calculatorĒs cover (ligth blue and black). Do it carefull, too. To solder the fail capacitor is not so difficult, you can use a 30 watts Cautin to solder it. But first, I suggest you, before do it with your calculator, practice with another thing less expensive. When you finish all, close up with a little pression. The 49G calculatorĒs problem is one of the most common problem in South America. -Dante Aron.92 C. Electrical Engineer. deachp@yahoo.es www.geocities.com/deachp/deachp.html ==== Someone has previously complained about the choice of capacitors, even in the HP48: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3626127D.D09643F3%40iol.ie I'm constantly amazed at the silly things designers do after they've just finished producing a work of genius. A long but highly interesting and educational essay about engineering in general: http://www.me.gatech.edu/me/publicat/AugTranscript.htm [r->] [OFF] . ==== Anybody know of a program in RPL or for a PC which calculates the distances between the planets for a given date? I'm looking especially for the Earth-to-Venus and Earth-to-Mars distances. The astronomy programs I've -Joe- Average time for light to reach Earth from Sun: almost exactly 8 min, 19 seconds, according to HP48/49. ==== > Anybody know of a program in RPL or for a PC which calculates the > distances > between the planets for a given date? I'm looking especially for the > Earth-to-Venus and Earth-to-Mars distances. The astronomy programs I've -Joe- > Average time for light to reach Earth from Sun: almost exactly 8 min, 19 > seconds, according to HP48/49. Although it might be overkill just for this question, Urania also has this info.Distance from Earth is in the main planet info sheet, distance between other planets could be done using the AstroTools capabilities. See http://www.cg.tuwien.ac.at/~gzotti/hp/urania/index.html ==== Planning your next vacation? > Anybody know of a program in RPL or for a PC which calculates the distances > between the planets for a given date? I'm looking especially for the > Earth-to-Venus and Earth-to-Mars distances. The astronomy programs I've -Joe- > Average time for light to reach Earth from Sun: almost exactly 8 min, 19 > seconds, according to HP48/49. ==== Don't have a RPL program to suggest, but ECU gives these distances as 2.239 AU for Mars and 0.421 for Venus ECU(Earth Centered Universe) www.nova-astro.com. Danny > Anybody know of a program in RPL or for a PC which calculates the distances > between the planets for a given date? I'm looking especially for the > Earth-to-Venus and Earth-to-Mars distances. The astronomy programs I've -Joe- > Average time for light to reach Earth from Sun: almost exactly 8 min, 19 > seconds, according to HP48/49. ==== Any good planetarium program for the PC can do that. I enjoy Distant Suns by Mike Smithwick - his site has a free download version. Run it, set the desired date (and time), tell it to find the desired planet, and click on the planet. A box will give the distance and loads of other information. For this purpose, it's somewhat overly involved and greatly overkill. But its other features make it a source of endless interaction. Best to you from Penngrove! Jim (Not at my computer so I don't have the bookmark handy - Google will) ==== > I enjoy Distant Suns by Mike Smithwick - his site has > a free download version. Wow, you're right! Good stuff! But then again, any software that gets kudos from Arthur C. Clarke has got to be good! -Joe- ==== More HP49G number fun... REPUNIT(n) is just a string of n 1's. For example, REPUNIT(3) = 111, which is 3*37. PRIME(n) is the nth prime number. For example, PRIME(3) = 5. Very few REPUNIT(n) are divisible by PRIME(n). Monkeying around the other day, I found the following: REPUNIT(6) = 111111; PRIME(6) = 13; 111111/13=8547. REPUNIT(12) is divisible by PRIME(12). I've found only 9 more cases. Any idea why these are so rare? -Joe- ==== > More HP49G number fun... REPUNIT(n) is just a string of n 1's. For example, REPUNIT(3) = 111, which > is 3*37. PRIME(n) is the nth prime number. For example, PRIME(3) = 5. Very few REPUNIT(n) are divisible by PRIME(n). Monkeying around the other > day, I found the following: REPUNIT(6) = 111111; PRIME(6) = 13; 111111/13=8547. > REPUNIT(12) is divisible by PRIME(12). I've found only 9 more cases. Any idea why these are so rare? I'll take a stab at this. Since you've only asked for an idea, I can avoid mathematical rigor. Hand waving is more fun, anyway! Let's suppose that there is no underlying relationship between REPUNIT(n) and PRIME(n), so that in effect what we are asking for each PRIME(n) is whether it divides some large random integer. We can expect this to happen with probability 1/PRIME(n). We can now calculated an expected value of the number of cases of divisibility by PRIME(k) for all k up to and including k = m. E(cases) = Sum [ 1/PRIME(k) ] 1<=k<=m How large is PRIME(n)? There are various approximations we can use. My choice is PRIME(n) ~ n*LN(n). It's not terribly accurate for small n, but it has the right asymptotic behavior, and has the further advantage that it's easy to analyze. So we could expect correct asymptotic behavior from E(cases) = Sum [ 1/(k*LN(k)) ] 2<=k<=m We can approximate this sum by an integral: E(cases) = Int [ dx/(x*LN(x)) ] 2<=x<=m which has the closed form solution: E(cases) = LN(LN(m)) - LN(LN(2)) We can ignore the LN(LN(2)) term because we are interested in asymptotic behavior, and our approximation isn't very good for small integers anyway. So the term of interest is the LN(LN(m)) term. One thing to note is that it goes to infinity as m goes to infinity. In other words, we can expect that there are an infinite number of cases of divisibility by PRIME(n). Another thing to note is that LN(LN(m)) is *very* small even for large m. m LN(m) LN(LN(m)) --- ----- --------- 10 2.30 0.83 100 4.61 1.53 10^3 6.91 1.93 10^6 13.82 2.63 10^9 20.72 3.03 So we would expect only about 3 cases for the first billion primes. This is an underestimate, since the first 400,000 primes yield divisibility of REPUNIT(n) by PRIME(n) for n = 6, 12, 2394, 2431, 14148, 150886, 213634. I'm astonished that you've found 11 of these cases (two plus nine more, right?). I'd be even more astonished if you actually claim to have found them on an HP49. Scott -- Scott Hemphill hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu This isn't flying. This is falling, with style. -- Buzz Lightyear ==== I have just recently purchased a HP49G. When I was researching to see which calculator to buy I also saw the 48GX. Supposedly the best feature on the 48 that the 49 didn't have was an equation library. SO i downloaded a couple of equation libraries for the 49 off of HPcalc.org I sent them to my calc but couldn't figure how to access. I usually go to file manager and hit eval but all that came up was the name of the program and who made it. I want to know how to actually run the program. (This is my first graphing calculator I had a HP scientific calc before.) Anyway thanks in advance for anyones advise. If anyone wants to know, I downloaded Library of Equations 0.1 off of www.hpcalc.org. ==== > i downloaded a couple of equation libraries for the 49 off of > HPcalc.org I sent them to my calc but couldn't figure how to access. Libraries only work when they're in port memory. Move 'em to port memory, then access them through the LIB key. The documentation for each library should have instructions for their use. -Joe- ==== Does anyone know where I can get a tutorial to help me learn my HP 49g? I've used an HP 48g for the last few years, but the keyboard layout and menus are somewhat different on the 49, so a crash course would be nice. ==== I'm don't know you name !. Seek in http://ca-on.hpcalc.org the next program : HP49G Advanced User's Guide 1.3 Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK **************************************************************************** *** > Does anyone know where I can get a tutorial to help me learn my HP 49g? I've used an HP 48g for the last few years, but the keyboard layout and > menus are somewhat different on the 49, so a crash course would be nice. > ==== I am trying to translate one basic program to UserRPL and, after days and days, now I'm really frustrated... Is there any way that my program flows after execute one subprogram? For example: BASIC: 10 if a=0 then goto 30 20 ..... 30 ..... If a=0 program skips to line 30 and continue to the end of the program. Great! usrRPL: if a 0 == then RUT ... ... After subprogram RUT has been executed, I must rewrite all lines to the end of program!! Just imagine hundreds crossed if-then-goto structures!!! Am I doing something wrong? Excuse me for my bad english and PLEASE help!!! Zvonko ==== > I am trying to translate one basic program to UserRPL and, after > days and days, now I'm really frustrated... Is there any way that my > program flows after execute one subprogram? For example: Don't be frustrated. The translation of this kind is (in general) no easy task. Actually it is quite often the case that the whole program has to be re-designed. > BASIC: > 10 if a=0 then goto 30 > 20 ..... > 30 ..... > If a=0 program skips to line 30 and continue to the end of the > program. Great! usrRPL: > if a 0 == then RUT > ... > ... > After subprogram RUT has been executed, I must rewrite all lines to > the end of program!! Just imagine hundreds crossed if-then-goto > structures!!! Well, you already found out how difficult it can be. If the basic program continues from line 30 to the end, then you could make a separate UserRPL program that contains the translation of these lines. (I guess that's what the program RUT does ?) But if additional goto's are in these lines, then the same story is repeated for these goto's. If the code from line 30 to the end is jumped on from only one or two goto's, then you couls also include the code of RUT in the program. BASIC: 10 if a=0 then goto 30 20 ..... 30 blahblah1 40 blahblah2 50 blahblah3 usrRPL: IF a 0 == THEN blahblah1 blahblah2 blahblah3 END But if the code in used more than once or twice, then this direct translation ends up by having multiple copies of the same code in the program: BASIC: 10 if a=0 then goto 30 15 if c=3 then goto 30 20 if b=1 then goto 30 25 ..... 30 blahblah1 40 blahblah2 50 blahblah3 usrRPL: IF a 0 == THEN blahblah1 blahblah2 blahblah3 END IF b 1 == THEN blahblah1 blahblah2 blahblah3 END IF c 30 == THEN blahblah1 blahblah2 blahblah3 END In such a case you could put all tests that jump to line 30 in one place: usrRPL: IF a 0 == b 1 == OR c 30 == OR THEN blahblah1 blahblah2 blahblah3 END You see, the above simple case demands a bit of re-designing. It is clear that the more complex your basic program is, the more complex will be its translation in UserRPL. > Am I doing something wrong? Not at all, you're at a difficult task, that's all. BTW, the above problem is not a proviledge of the translation from basic to UserRPL. Translation is always a hard task. Just try Babble Fish to see what I mean ;-) Greetings, Nick. ==== Also see the HP7B: http://www.kinpo.com.tw/English/Calculator.htm#hp7b http://www.kinpo.com.tw/images/calculator/hp7b.jpg This answers what's in a name -- nothing! . ==== Wow! I've heard this name (kinpo) as a rumour sometime ago, now you have confirmed it. J.Manrique > http://www.kinpo.com.tw/English/Calculator.htm#sg2 ==== I suppose TI calcs are produced at http://www.inventec.com.tw/einventec/index.htm J.Manrique Lopez de la Fuente ha scritto nel messaggio > Wow! I've heard this name (kinpo) as a rumour sometime ago, now you have confirmed it. J.Manrique ==== > I suppose TI calcs are produced at > http://www.inventec.com.tw/einventec/index.htm Hmm... Inventec Appliances Corp. http://www.iac.com.tw/images/product-d.jpg . ==== > I can't belive it, they have put the buggy unit photo: > Look at key between [log] and [sin], what does it read? > Yes, it says [in] instead of [ln] I suspect that it's just a problem with the resolution of the image. What I find interesting is that both the 9S and the 9G are marked as Out of Stock. Is this because they've sold *really* well or did they not make many in the first place? Or have they put the ad up before the stock was available in the first place? > Are those prices on there for real?! The 9s is $11.99? Somehow I don't think > I'd expect much for that price... I've had a play with the 9S. You might be pleasantly surprised at how much it does. ==== > I can't belive it, they have put the buggy unit photo: > Look at key between [log] and [sin], what does it read? > Yes, it says [in] instead of [ln] I suspect that it's just a problem with the resolution of the image. No, it isn't. I had been 'playing' with the 'marketing kit' (a hp9g and hp9s) and the hp9g came with [in] key instead [ln]. Of course, user releases will come with the right key, but those things say too much about how much care does HP (not the new calculators team) take on them. > Are those prices on there for real?! The 9s is $11.99? Somehow I don't think > I'd expect much for that price... I've had a play with the 9S. You might be pleasantly surprised at how > much it does. Yes, both calcs are good calcs, being a clone or not, personally, I like them... And best of all, there is people working on calcs in HP, so there is hope for the future. J.Manrique ==== Seen: > Why is the sky blue? So, before the Industrial Revolution, the sky wasn't blue? The blue color of the sky is due to Rayleigh scattering. http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/sky_blue.html Lord Rayleigh also calculated that even without smoke and dust in the atmosphere, the oxygen and nitrogen molecules would still cause the sky to appear blue because of scattering. http://www.why-is-the-sky-blue.org/why-is-the-sky-blue.html But why is it also polarized? (giving rise to sky filters for better cloud photos, and my LCD watch being hard to read in the late afternoon :) Why the Sky is Blue, a Poem by John Ciardi I don't suppose you happen to know Why the sky is blue? It's because the snow Takes out the white. That leaves it clean For the trees and grass to take out the green. Then pears and bananas start to mellow, And bit by bit they take out the yellow. The sunsets, of course, take out the red And pour it into the ocean bed Or behind the mountains in the west. You take all that out and the rest Couldn't be anything else but blue. Look for yourself. You can see it's true. http://www.poets.org/poets/poets.cfm?prmID=697 http://www.uark.edu/~uaprinfo/titles/backlist/literature/poetry/ciardi.html . ==== :) > Seen: > Why is the sky blue? > So, before the Industrial Revolution, the sky wasn't blue? The blue color of the sky is due to Rayleigh scattering. > http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/sky_blue.html Lord Rayleigh also calculated that even without smoke and dust > in the atmosphere, the oxygen and nitrogen molecules would still > cause the sky to appear blue because of scattering. > http://www.why-is-the-sky-blue.org/why-is-the-sky-blue.html > But why is it also polarized? (giving rise to sky filters > for better cloud photos, and my LCD watch being hard to read > in the late afternoon :) Why the Sky is Blue, a Poem by John Ciardi I don't suppose you happen to know > Why the sky is blue? It's because the snow > Takes out the white. That leaves it clean > For the trees and grass to take out the green. > Then pears and bananas start to mellow, > And bit by bit they take out the yellow. > The sunsets, of course, take out the red > And pour it into the ocean bed > Or behind the mountains in the west. > You take all that out and the rest > Couldn't be anything else but blue. > Look for yourself. You can see it's true. > http://www.poets.org/poets/poets.cfm?prmID=697 > http://www.uark.edu/~uaprinfo/titles/backlist/literature/poetry/ciardi.html > . ==== On 6 Dec 2002 07:03:39 -0800, top88keys@yahoo.com (Aaron Toponce) >> Why do programs I download to my 49g end up as strings instead of >> programs? They are libraries that must be archived so to speak. Press the >softkey relating to the program, type a port number (0, 1 or 2), the >press STO. Do an on-c combination and your program is ready to go! >> >> Why does the cas give the wrong answers? It doesn't. Instead, it allows the user to be flexible with the >answers given. >> >> Why is the sky blue. No scratch that one. ; ) > >> Sincerly >> >> A Jaded New User. ==== Aaron Toponce schrieb im Newsbeitrag > [..] > Why does the cas give the wrong answers? It doesn't. Instead, it allows the user to be flexible with the > answers given. > LOL. Nice answer:-) CASMAN... Raymond ==== I have not on the 83, but use it all the time on the 89. Very good program! However, if you want the true power of RPN, get an HP calculator. Aaron > I have a hp-49 but I need a caclulator without a CAS. I prefer rpn a > lot, but since there are no rpn scientifics available and the hp-48 is > so slow at graphing, I am going to buy a ti. I found a rpn program > here http://patrick.wattle.id.au/cameron/software/ti83/rpn/ for the > ti-83 Has anyone used that rpn program? Is it good? ==== Have you ever wondered where Reverse Polish Notation or RPN came from? Who thought of it? Why use it? Is there other ways of computing arithmatic expressions besides Algebraic and RPN? You bet! But first, we must build a foundation for coming up with these different ways of evaluating expressions. All these forms of notation are based off of binary trees which we will discuss here. We can represent complicated expressions, such as compound propositions, combinations of sets, and arithmetic expressions involving the operators + (addition), - (subtraction), * (multiplication), / (division), and ^ (exponentiation). We will use parenteses to indicate the order of the oerations. An ordered rooted tree can be used to represent the variables or numbers. Each operation operates on its left and right subtrees (in that order). An inorder traversal of the binary tree representing an expression produces the original expression with the elements and operations in the same order as they originally occurred, except for unary operations, which instead immediately follow their operands. For instance, inorder traversals of a binary tree which represent the expressions (x + y)/(x + 3), (x + (y / x)) + 3, and x+ (y / (x + 3)), all lead to the infix expression x + y / x + 3. To make such expressions unambiguous it is necessary to include parentheses in the inorder traversal whenever we encounter an operation. The fully parenthesized expression obtained in this way is said to be in infix form. This form is the most poopular form found in Texas Instrument calculators, Casio calculators, and 99.99% of the calculators produced in the world today. Of course this is the form also used in text books to describe various expressions. We obtain the prefix form of an expression when we traverse its rooted tree in preorder. Expressions written in prefix form are said to be in Polish Notation, which is named after the logician Jan Lukasiewicz (who was actually Ukrainian and not Polish). An expression in prefix notation (where each operation has a specified number of operands), is unambiguous, so no parentheses are needed in such an expression. For example, what is the prefix form for (( x + y) ^ 2) + ((x - 4) / 3)? We obtain the prefix form for this expression by traversing the binary tree that represents it, shown below (sorry for not representing it very well): (+) / (^) ( /) / / (+) (2) (-) (3) / / (x) (y) (x) (4) In the prefix form of an expression, a binary operator, such as +, precedes its two operands. Hence, we can evaluate an expresssion in prefix form by working from right to left. When we encounter an operator, we perform the corresponding operation with the two operands immediately to the right of this operand. Also, whenever an operation is performed, we consider the result a new operand. The most common hardware found to use this form of evaluating expressions would be found in the LISP programming language. So what would be the value of the prefix expression + - * 2 3 5 / ^ 2 3 4? The steps used to evaluate this expression by working reight to left, and performing operations using the operands on the right are shown below: + - * 2 3 5 / ^ 2 3 4 + - * 2 3 5 / 8 4 (2^3 = 8) + - * 2 3 5 2 (8/4 = 2) + - 6 5 2 (2*3 = 6) + 1 2 (1+2 = 3) So the value of the expression is 3. We obtain the postfix form of an expression by traversing its binary tree in postorder. Expressions written in postfix from are said to be in Reverse Polish Notation. Expression in RPN are unambiguous, so parenteses are not needed. Obviously, RPN is found in Hewlett-Packard calculators, and also found to be the most convenient number crunching tool. So what is the postfix form of the expression ((x + y) ^ 2) + ((x - 4) / 3)? The postfix form of the expression is obtained by carrying out a postorder traversal of the binary tree for this expression. This produces the postfix expression x y + 2 ^ x 4 - 3 / +. In the postfix form of an expression, a binary operator follows its two operands. So, to evaluate an expression from its postfix form, work from left to right, carrying out operations whenever an operator follows two operands. After an operation is carried out, the result of this operation becomes a new operand. What is the balue of the postfix expression 7 2 3 * - 4 ^ 9 3 / +? The solution is found by starting art the left and carrying out operations when two operands are followed by an operator. 7 2 3 * - 4 ^ 9 3 / + 7 6 - 4 ^ 9 3 / + (2*3 = 6) 1 4 ^ 9 3 / + (7-6 = 1) 1 9 3 / + (1^4 = 1) 1 3 + (9/3 = 3) The value of this expression is 4. Now the question remains: should HP ever produce a calculator that uses prefix notation? Aaron ==== You are preaching to the converted :-) ==== the variuos notation representations. You are preaching to the converted :-) Do you have an HP prefix calc, or do you program in LISP? :o) Ah, then even the converted (postfix users) could experience something new. ==== the variuos notation representations. Read the google archives. I'm not insulting you, but this is a *very* common thread... > > You are preaching to the converted :-) Do you have an HP prefix calc, or do you program in LISP? :o) Ah, then > even the converted (postfix users) could experience something new. I personally learnt RPN rather quickly. I tried as an experiment to learn normal polish notation. Couldn't do it. Perhaps you could follow up to sci.math? cheers, Al ==== Having such a huge number in the queue the best its author could do is to resign and to cancel his message from this NG. It's an paradigma of a long text with zero content, he should better try to become a politician :-) He has seemingly not read my post in the thread RPN versus Algebraic a week ago on the history of RPN and its role in mathematics and programming. I did not discuss such an irrelevant question as to whether Lukasiewicz was Polish or Ukrain (which in any case is hard to decide). But there are nevertheless some topics which I didn't touch. Why not? The reason is not only its bracket-free condensed information but, IMHO, the fact that unique readability is by far not as obvious as in the algebraic case. It may sound surprising that a rigorous proof of the unique readability theorem for RPN is even easier obtained as for the classic algebraic notation, though it is by no means trivial. This it shown by induction on the lenght of a RPN-term which is based on the following lemma: No proper end segment of a well-formed RPN term is itself a well-formed RPN-term. This in turn is verified by induction, starting from a recursive definition of the set of well-formed RPN-terms. - Wolfgang ==== Having such a huge number in the queue the best > its author could do is to resign and to cancel > his message from this NG. Why? > It's an paradigma of > a long text with zero content, he should better > try to become a politician :-) I thought it might be interesting to understand the various notation methods used as a study of mathematics (seeing as though we are mathematicians) *without* the bias toward any one method. > He has seemingly not read my post in the thread > RPN versus Algebraic a week ago on the history > of RPN and its role in mathematics and programming. I have. How does reading my post lead you to the conclusion that I have not read your post? Which form of mathematical induction did you use? > I did not discuss such an irrelevant question as to > whether Lukasiewicz was Polish or Ukrain (which > in any case is hard to decide). Again, just another interesting sidenote. Jan Lukasiewicz was born in Lwow in 1878 where he studied at the University of Lwow. He later moved to describing three-valued logic which was an important contribution to this subject. Noevertheless, he his best known for the parenthises-free notation known as Plosih notation. I find this very interesting, and see it unfortunate that others don't. This is mathematical history, and the foundation upon RPN of which our beloved calculators use. > But there are > nevertheless some topics which I didn't touch. Thus, that is why Lukasiewicz is brought up here. I assume you are talking to Al here, howeverI agree. My wife hates it, even after all the lessons I have taught to her on it. > Why not? The reason is not only its bracket-free > condensed information but, IMHO, the fact that > unique readability is by far not as obvious as in > the algebraic case. Readability is the biggest problem with newcomers to RPN and prefix notation. > It may sound surprising that a rigorous proof of the > unique readability theorem for RPN is even easier > obtained as for the classic algebraic notation, > though it is by no means trivial. This it shown by > induction on the lenght of a RPN-term which is > based on the following lemma: No proper end segment > of a well-formed RPN term is itself a well-formed > RPN-term. This in turn is verified by induction, > starting from a recursive definition of the > set of well-formed RPN-terms. but it makes sense. I appreciate this information, an I am sure others do too. Now the conjecture to prove the lemma: Is there an end segment of a well-formed RPN term that IS itself a well-formed RPN term? This would be interesting to prove, and I am sure it would bring about a great argument among mathematicians. > - Wolfgang Aaron ==== > > Having such a huge number in the queue the best > its author could do is to resign and to cancel > his message from this NG. Why? But Aaron, just because Wolgang demands this. Din't you know that?? ;-) > It's an paradigma of > a long text with zero content, he should better > try to become a politician :-) What Aaron should try to become is none of your or anybody else's business. But anyway don't wish that too loudly. Politicians can cut down the amount of money used for mathematical research. ;-) > I thought it might be interesting to understand the various notation methods > used as a study of mathematics (seeing as though we are mathematicians) > *without* the bias toward any one method. It *is* interesting and not even 100000 imperators in this world will manage to lower the interest towards such questions. > He has seemingly not read my post in the thread > RPN versus Algebraic a week ago on the history > of RPN and its role in mathematics and programming. I have. How does reading my post lead you to the conclusion that I have not > read your post? Which form of mathematical induction did you use? He used WIWTWI (Wolfganian-I-Want-It-That-Way-Induction). ;-) Your example of prefix syntax: >+ - * 2 3 5 / ^ 2 3 4 >+ - * 2 3 5 / 8 4 (2^3 = 8) >+ - * 2 3 5 2 (8/4 = 2) >+ - 6 5 2 (2*3 = 6) >+ 1 2 (1+2 = 3) Actually the whole building of Mathematica is done in a quite similar way. For example the definition of normal multiplication is of the form Times[arguments], though of course Mathematica will let you input products in their usual algebraic form: a*b. Your above example in the inner world of Mathematica looks like (Method 1): Plus[Minus[Times[2,3],5],Ratio[[Power[2,3],4]] If you think the brackets away, this is essentially the input of above. (You can also think of invisible brackets in your example.) The same calculation can be done in Mathematica also by entering (Method 2): Times[2,3] Minus[%,5] Power[2,3] Rational[%,4] Plus[%%%,%] where % stands for last result and %%% stand for third last result. This resembles your input from above, though the difference is that we still apply many operations to already existing results. Now, for me it seems quite hard to pre-post all functions that *will* act on arguments, *when* the arguments are available. Especially when dealing with more complex expressions this can get quite confusing. I would rather work using Method 2 of above, which in some extend resembles the HP calculators method. But anyway, input easyness can't be just put down to a few criteria, as number of key presses and the like, since there will be always personal preferrence for some specific method. (That's a big big advantage of Mathematica and the plurality of syntax variations that it understands.) Greetings, Nick. ==== > I did not discuss such an irrelevant question as to > whether Lukasiewicz was Polish or Ukrain (which > in any case is hard to decide). > Again, just another interesting sidenote. Jan Lukasiewicz was born in Lwow > in 1878 where he studied at the University of Lwow. Should we infer from the fact that the philosopher Emanuel Kant was born in Kaliningrad (formerly K.9anigsberg) that he was a Russian? And the same K.9anigsberg as well? At the time when Jan Lukasiewicz was born, Lwiw (formely Lw.97w) was considered to be a Polish town, occupied by the Russians. And all Polish people I spoke with continue to consider it to be a Polish town, although the Polish population today still living in Lwiw is a small minority by now. ==== > should HP ever produce a calculator that uses prefix notation? Notwithstanding that SysRPL has assorted prefix commands, which self-quote what follows, there is still the same fundamental problem as with algebraic calculators, which is that the cart comes before the horse, In other words, if you finish one problem, and then you decide that you want to re-use its result for another calculation, you'll need H. G. Wells' time machine to do it! RPN permits you to see *all* intermediate results during manual entry; Algebraic calcs permit you to see *some* intermediate results; now, how many intermediate results would you see with prefix ops? Putting the cart before the horse: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=59dcb4%2499t%40news.iastate.edu Last week's Car Talk Puzzler seems related: http://cartalk.cars.com/Radio/Puzzler/Transcripts/200248/index.html I can put my car on this road and point it north, and drive for a mile and when I'm done, I'm a mile south of where I started. The Upper-world people might once have been the favoured aristocracy, and the Morlocks their mechanical servants, but that had long since passed away... Man had been content to live in ease and delight upon the labours of his fellow-man, had taken Necessity as his watchword and excuse, and in the fullness of time Necessity had come home to him. [H. G. Wells, The Time Machine] http://www.bartleby.com/1000 (the complete book) . ==== > should HP ever produce a calculator that uses prefix notation? Notwithstanding that SysRPL has assorted prefix commands, I was not aware of this as I am not a SysRPL programmer. I should've specified: Should HP produce a calculator that uses prefix notation as it's basic manual entry, versus postfix and infix? I am not aware of one HP calc that does this. > which self-quote what follows, there is still the same > fundamental problem as with algebraic calculators, > which is that the cart comes before the horse, A simple left to right entry in to the calc. In other words, if you finish one problem, > and then you decide that you want to re-use its result > for another calculation, > you'll need H. G. Wells' time machine to do it! :) RPN permits you to see *all* intermediate results during manual entry; > Algebraic calcs permit you to see *some* intermediate results; > now, how many intermediate results would you see with prefix ops? *all* results are seen. Remember, Polish Notation is reverse of Reverse Polish Notation. Putting the cart before the horse: > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=59dcb4%2499t%40news.iastate.edu > aristocracy, and the Morlocks their mechanical servants, > but that had long since passed away... > Man had been content to live in ease and delight upon > the labours of his fellow-man, had taken Necessity as his > watchword and excuse, and in the fullness of time > Necessity had come home to him. [H. G. Wells, The Time Machine] > http://www.bartleby.com/1000 (the complete book) Great book! I have it and have read it several times. . ==== > Should HP produce a calculator that uses prefix notation > as its basic manual entry, versus postfix and infix? I hope not. > I am not aware of one HP calc that does this. Maybe there's a reason. > *all* results are seen. Remember, Polish Notation > is reverse of Reverse Polish Notation. Well, help me to understand this; in RPN, if I want to add '1+2+3+4+5' the way I do it now is: 1 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + So are you saying that in your PN calc, it would be: + 5 + 4 + 3 + 2 1 If so, how many pending operations (and stack levels) would that build up, and when would I get to see each intermediate result? Having obtained any previous results, how would I use them further, for subsequent computations? > A simple left to right entry into the calc. But in your post before this one, you said: > Hence, we can evaluate an expresssion in prefix form > by working from right to left. I see; you *enter* everything from left to right, but it has to be *evaluated* by the calc from right to left -- that's where things seem to differ from good old RPN, where the order of entry is the same as the order of evaluation; this should greatly increase its value as a mental exercise machine, both for the user and for the internals programmer :) Well, if your wife likes RPN, she's bound to love PN even more. Actually, is she a good writer? How about having her write the manual, then: It's just as you would do a problem using pencil and paper, except that you have to finish everything first, and then enter it all backwards into the calculator. :) -------- Then you should say what you mean, the March Hare went on. I do Alice hastily replied, at least I mean what I say -- that's the same thing, you know. Not the same thing a bit! said the Hatter, Why you might just as well say that 'I see what I eat' is the same thing as 'I eat what I see' You might just as well say, added the March Hare, that 'I like what I get' is the same thing as 'I get what I like' You might just as well say, added the Doormouse, which seemed to be talking in its sleep, that 'I breathe when I sleep' is the same thing as 'I sleep when I breathe'! It is the same thing with you, said the Hatter, and here the conversation dropped. [C. L. Dodgson] http://www.lewiscarroll.org/carroll.html [r->] [OFF] . ==== More by or about C. L. Dodgson [a/k/a Lewis Carroll]: http://www.maa.org/mathland/mathland_3_3.html http://xraysgi.ims.uconn.edu/rpa-output/logic/zoo.p -[]- . ==== Anyone know where this entry is on HP49 v. 1.19-6, and whether it has been stable? P.S. This is what it's for: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3C87893D.439093B0%40miu.edu . ==== > Anyone know where this entry is on HP49 v. 1.19-6, > and whether it has been stable? It's deep inside a bank.. Here is the source code however: :: * Create the directory list and compute its length DOVARS DUPLENCOMP ( null$ { IDn .. ID1 } n ) * Set TRUE if the list is empty DUP#0=ITE ( null$ { IDn .. ID1 } n ) * If the list is null, just drop the list and its length 2DROP ( null$ ) * Else build a directory listing string :: ( names$ { IDn .. ID1 } n ) #1+_ONE_DO (DO) * Get element from list DUPINDEX@ NTHCOMDDUP ( names$ {IDs} IDx IDx ) * Decompile this object name (don't convert special chars), * add its length, type, and checksum, add CR/LF and append * to result string ID>$ APPEND_SPACE ( names$ {IDs} IDx IDx$ ) OVER VARSIZE ( names$ {IDs} IDx IDx$ hxs len% ) RPNDecompEdit APPEND_SPACE ( names$ {IDs} IDx IDx$ hxs len$ ) 4ROLL XEQRCL GET_THE_TYPE ( names$ {IDs} IDx$ hxs len_type$ ) APPEND_SPACE SWAP HXS>% RPNDecompEdit !append$ !append$ APNDCRLF ROT ( {IDs} IDx_len_type_cksm$ names$ ) !insert$ ( {IDs} names'$ ) SWAPLOOP (LOOP) DROP ( names$ ) ; ; ( end of error trap ) ==== On Sun, 08 Dec 2002 03:34:35 -0600, John H Meyers and whether it has been stable? >P.S. This is what it's for: >http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3C87893D.439093B0%40miu.edu It's at # 47B73h on 1.19-6. Unfortunately, not only is this in an unstable region but it's inside a flash pointer routine. ( FPTR 1 28C , internal xSERVER ) If you want to access the above in a version independent manner then the following code should probably work unless the code for xSERVER has been changed : :: ' CODE LC(5) (#40222)+5*(#28C) CD0EX RSTK=C A=DAT0 A LC(5) #244 A=A+C A C=RSTK D0=C PC=(A) ENDCODE FLASHPTR 1 0 ; ------------ --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== I've done an HP49 library at home with the emulator. I have an HP48. I want to carry the library with me in my calc and transfer it to an HP49. Is that possible? I've tried to send it from my computer to my calc without success. I've done a search on this group and the best thing I've found was JYA saying to never transfer libraries from 48 to 49 because they won't That's not my problem, the library is ok for a 49. Suggestions are welcome, miz. ==== > I've created an HP49 library at home with the emulator. > I want to carry the library with me in an HP48 > and transfer it to an HP49. When sending (binary mode) directly from 49 (emulator) to 48 (real), or when saving from emulator to PC and then PC to calc (binary), it will become a string HPHP49-xxxxxx in the 48; fine, keep the string as-is. When transferring (binary mode again) from 48 to 49, another string prefix gets inserted, so now you have: HPHP48-yyyyyyHPHP49-xxxxxx Now, in the 49, apply FIXOB (or OBJFIX) twice, reversing each of the above string prefix insertions, and the actual original object should be extracted. WARNING: FIXOB does NOT convert incompatible binary objects (e.g. libraries) between *different*model* calcs! http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3C7EB86C.9697B5A5%40miu.edu http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8t1n18%244j4%241%40nnrp1.deja.com In this case, however, note that the original object was produced on a 49 (emulated) and ends up being finally extracted on the same model (49), so it is appropriate. Sometimes you may think an object is compatible, but it isn't: FIXOB v1.1 for 48 or 49 (by Werner Huysegoms) http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8qcv36%24hvt%241%40nnrp1.deja.com http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4207 http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/utils/comms/fixobv11.zip Modified OBJFIX (originally supplied by HP) for 48 or 49: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8q46gs%24a18%241%40nnrp1.deja.com ASCI/ASCO for 49 (safe hex posting/downloading for small binaries): http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=83v723%24p3h%241%40nnrp1.deja.com The principal difference between OBJFIX and FIXOB is that OBJFIX works only on objects stored in variables, while FIXOB takes its argument from the stack; Werner's FIXOB extracts objects in place (no copy is made), which allows the processing of larger objects. JYA's original UserRPL shortcut is simple, but performs no safety checks whatsoever, hence could result in a crash and/or memory lost if applied to any inappropriate object: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=37be66ff%40isoit370.bbn.hp.com [r->] [OFF] . ==== I'm finally running EMU48 (emulating the 49G) on my Ipaq 3955. What I can't seem to figure out is how do I load libraries? I've been running the emulator on my PC for a long time and have it all set up, but mostly, I used drag-and-drop to load objects which I can't do on the PPC. I've transferred all of the lib files to a diretory on the PPC but when I use the LOAD OBJECT command, none of the lib files appear in the file dialog (although my own programs do). I know I was able to do this before on my Jornada 720 WinCE machine, but I'm darned if I can figure it out now! Help! Any advice would really be appreciated. Simon ==== I've fooled around with KML a bit in the past, but what I'd really like (specifically for the small PocketPC screen) is to be able to have different key labels depending upon your mode. For example, if you shift to ALPHA mode, the the labels on the keys show only the alpha letters. When you RIGHT SHIFT, you'd see only those functions on the keys, and so on. Is there any way to accomplish this using KML? If so, it would sure make a clean, uncluttered bitmap that would really be an advantage with so little screen real estate. Any opinions? Simon ==== I would like to get a ROM card for a new user with an ml program that I uploaded to hpcalc in October, ProBJ. I have not heard any feedback regarding the program but recommend it to anyone who plays blackjack (http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=5316). Todd Eckrich ==== Raymond schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I would like to get a ROM card for a new user with an ml program that I > uploaded to hpcalc in October, ProBJ. I have not heard any feedback > regarding the program but recommend it to anyone who plays blackjack > (http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=5316). > Todd Eckrich ==== >> Hey Nick: >> Hmmm, I'm not sure, but you're probably right...let me run a couple of >> tests--invert some matrices and do some integration, etc.... >Oh, crap! I just tried to start up the trusty old 49G--and nothing >happened!! (yes, as a matter of fact, I did check the batteries....) >Oh my, oh my, the sky is falling, >Roger Well, my 49G is OK (reset, left batteries out for a while)....the Casio A22T certainly does seem to run calculations faster---but then the Casio hardware (even though, in my opinion, does not compare well with other $495 devices) is much improved over what the 49G has---this is really an apples and oranges comparison--it seems to me that the limitation we find with our 49Gs is not at all in the CAS but the limited memory and slow processor.... Anyway, I am having a problem in the comparisons--for one test I ran a double summation: for y from 1 to 10 and for x from 1 to 10 of (x^3*y^3 + x^2*y^2 + x*y)---my other systems gave the result 9301875, but my 49G keeps saying 44804650...I MUST be entering something wrong on the 49 but I cannot figure out what....could someone else please try this calculation?..... Happy holidays, Roger ==== > Anyway, I am having a problem in the comparisons--for one test I ran a > double summation: for y from 1 to 10 and for x from 1 to 10 of (x^3*y^3 + > x^2*y^2 + x*y)---my other systems gave the result 9301875, but my 49G keeps > saying 44804650...I MUST be entering something wrong on the 49 but I cannot > figure out what....could someone else please try this calculation?..... The syntax ('Sigma' is the summation function): 'Sigma(Y=1,10,Sigma(X=1,10,X^3*Y^3+X^2*Y^2+X*Y))' Enter the above in the command line, and view it in the EQW to see where you made the mistake... ==== made the mistake... Hmm....the above is what shows when I VIEW this in TEXT mode...I don't get what I'm doing wrong, yet.... Roger ==== Hmm....the above is what shows when I VIEW this in TEXT mode...I don't > get what I'm doing wrong, yet.... Roger Ouch...maybe my 49 is sicker than I thought....I had another new 49G I was saving and I opened it up and it gave me the correct answer.... Roger ==== > Anyway, I am having a problem in the comparisons--for one test I ran a > double summation: for y from 1 to 10 and for x from 1 to 10 of (x^3*y^3 + > x^2*y^2 + x*y)---my other systems gave the result 9301875, but my 49G keeps > saying 44804650...I MUST be entering something wrong on the 49 but I cannot > figure out what....could someone else please try this calculation?..... My 48G also gives the result 9301875. I checked it with Mathematica. You should post your stack display to show what you have entered! CU Andreas ==== Gerson W Barbosa escribi.97 en el mensaje > Well, back to the 32Sii, it is the best second calculator for those who own a > 48 or 49G. To bad it has been discontinued... > It lacks matrix operations and could have a few more bytes in memory, but I > love it almost the same way I loved the old 15C I had in '84 (It belongs to my > brother now and is still running nicely after all those years...) I'm a 15c lover... but this weekend I've found the last 32sII in a little spanish city for 78 euros. I've played with it for two days now and it's better than I hoped. I like the solver and erasing a program not line by line... As you said, the worst is the lack of matrix ops. and the short (very short) memory. ==== >I'm a 15c lover... but this weekend I've found the last 32sII in a little >spanish city for 78 euros. Congratulations! Thought mine was the last one. The question remains: How many of them are still around? >I've played with it for two days now and it's better than I hoped. I like >the solver and erasing a program not line by line... Navigating through program lines requires the use of shift keys though. If you be careless, you may introduce spurious lines... >As you said, the worst is the lack of matrix ops. and the short (very short) >memory. > In many aspects the 32Sii is far superior than the 15C, like the ones you have noticed plus: alpha labels, base operations (I used to have hex-dec and bin-dec conversion programs in my 15C), fractions (it gives then nicest rational aproximation for pi: 355/113), and many more... And you'll be surprised to see that the 32Sii is much faster than the 15C. Don't have any 15C at hand but you could check to see how faster... Complex operations were better on the 15C... I think they were thinking in a replacement for the 11C when they designed the 32Sii, not for the 15C... But it is the best scientific RPN pocket calculator we can find (being lucky, naturally...) Gerson. ==== >I'm a 15c lover... but this weekend I've found the last 32sII in a little >spanish city for 78 euros. Congratulations! Thought mine was the last one. The question remains: How many of them are still around? >I've played with it for two days now and it's better than I hoped. I like >the solver and erasing a program not line by line... Navigating through program lines requires the use of shift keys though. If you be careless, you may introduce spurious lines... >As you said, the worst is the lack of matrix ops. and the short (very short) >memory. > In many aspects the 32Sii is far superior than the 15C, like the ones you have noticed plus: alpha labels, base operations (I used to have hex-dec and bin-dec conversion programs in my 15C), fractions (it gives then nicest rational aproximation for pi: 355/113), and many more... Complex operations were better on the 15C... I think they were thinking in a replacement for the 11C when they designed the 32Sii, not for the 15C... But it is the best scientific RPN pocket calculator we can find (being lucky, naturally...) Gerson. ==== here's a link to a help page for the HP 49g ROM update, and help for when it goes wrong . . . http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/pc/rom/ -- an HP 49g newb > i've tied to upgrade my ROM to ver 1.18, but i fucked em up. The memory was > erased.... Help me. What should i do? ==== As my mom always said, Try try try again! Aaron > i've tied to upgrade my ROM to ver 1.18, but i fucked em up. The memory was > erased.... Help me. What should i do? ==== > He could sell it directly to a friend or publish an add elsewhere. > You have to do something to stop those who sell stolen software. Stopping sales of legitimate items isn't an appropriate or reasonable way to accomplish that. ==== That is what I meant.. being that most software for the 48/49 is free to begin with - it should remain that way no matter how old it gets. Of course, if the author stated otherwise, then it should remain as per the author's statement. I think we are all in agreement, that just because it is old doesn't mean it is no longer the intellectual property of the author. Aaron > Free to all, unless otherwise stated by the author. > > That is incorrect. > No matter how old a piece of software is, the original author always keeps > the copyright on his work... > ==== > So if I publish my own work on CD-R, sell it to Fred, and then Fred decides > to resell on eBay the original disc he purchased from me, they won't let him? Right. > That seems completely outrageous. Did you follow the link JYA provided at all? I won't quote it - go read it yourself. It makes perfect sense. ==== > Did you follow the link JYA provided at all? I won't quote it - go read it > yourself. It makes perfect sense. Yes, I did, and I dispute that it makes perfect sense. I have bought software and music through legitimate channels that was supplied on CD-R. As the legitimate owner of these discs, I fail to see how it is reasonable for eBay to refuse to let me auction them on their site. Next they'll tell me that I can't sell printed matter that was reproduced by xerography, it has to be offset printed. ==== Eric Smith :: > >>Did you follow the link JYA provided at all? I won't quote it - go read it >>yourself. It makes perfect sense. > Yes, I did, and I dispute that it makes perfect sense. I have bought > software and music through legitimate channels that was supplied on > CD-R. As the legitimate owner of these discs, I fail to see how it > is reasonable for eBay to refuse to let me auction them on their site. What follows is not opinion in either direction, just comment: usually you will not become owner of the software or music. You only buy the right to use/listen the creation. Sometimes it is stated in licence that the right to use/listen may not be transferred by you to someone else :( For example in Estonia the Business Software Alliance asks the install media, Licence and cheque to prove that you have rights to use MS Windows/Office... Robert Tiismus ==== > What follows is not opinion in either direction, just comment: usually > you will not become owner of the software or music. You only buy the > right to use/listen the creation. In the US, when you buy the CD you also have the right to resell it. The copyright owner has no legal basis to prevent you from doing that, as part of the doctrine of first sale. This is true whether the original disc you buy is a pressed CD, CD-R, CD-RW, or any other medium. ==== Bonjour, je viens de t.8el.8echarger un programme de statistiques sur mon HP48GX mais je ne sais pas comment le faire tourner, le programme est Stat48 2.1 (details) 13KB/27KB Performs hypothesis tests and confidence intervals for single sample mean, proportion, & standard deviation; two sample means (dependent or independent), variances, & proportions. Additional tests include one and two way analysis of variance (one or more factors), contingency tables, goodness of fit, and linear correlation test. Also included are critical values and p-values for the z, t, F, and Chi-square distributions. Runs on HP48G+ and GX. By Scott Guth (H). du site http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/math/statistic/ quelqu'un pourrait-il me dire comment je dois le faire tourner parce que on peut le dire, je n'y pige RIEN, je ne sais m.90me pas le d.8emarrer ... Merci d'avance Pitou.be begin 666 icon48gx.jpg ==== I am looking for a program for my 48G+ to make it function as a simple programmer's hex calculator, to make calculations a bit more accessible than by using binary integers on the stack. I looked on hpcalc.org, and didn't find anything. Does such a program exist? Or is it a good excuse for me to learn SysRPL or ML? -Mike ==== > I am looking for a program for my 48G+ to make it function as a simple > programmer's hex calculator, to make calculations a bit more accessible > than by using binary integers on the stack. I looked on hpcalc.org, and > didn't find anything. Does such a program exist? Or is it a good > excuse for me to learn SysRPL or ML? I'm not sure about a free one, but if you don't mind spending a few dollars, I highly recommend Jake Schwartz' HP16C Emulator Library for the HP48: http://www.magpage.com/~jakes/mul8r.htm ==== Let PRIME denote the numbertheoretic function which enumerates the primes, i.e., PRIME(0)=2, PRIME(1)=3 etc. This is a primitive recursive function which plays a prominent role in what logicians call G.9adelization. It is easy to program PRIME on the HP49. For instance, :: CK1NOLASTWD CKREAL COERCE ZINT 2 SWAP DUP#0=csDROP ZERO_DO xNEXTPRIME LOOP ; computes it for arguments < 100000h. This program is fast enough for small arguments. For instance, it yields the 100th prime (= 541) in 2.5_s. But computing the 1000th prime, PRIME(999)=7919, will last already 42_s. Has anybody an idea of computing PRIME(n) on the 49 in a probabilistic but fast way, at least for n < 100000h (=1048576d) ? - Wolfgang ==== I would like to give a try to sysRPL. I got a lot of info from this newsgroup and hpcalc. I also downloaded a lot of software. But now I am a bit confused with different OS and versions, not knowing which doc goes with which software. I would be nice if one could get a complete distribution of tools, making a consistent whole. Is there an IDE for compiling on the PC (Win98) for hp49? Which version of HPTools should I use? Which reserved words should a source file begin with, in order of compiling for hp49 with HPTools? ============================================================ Paolo Cavallo I am a teacher at heart, and there are moments in the classroom when I can hardly hold the joy. P. J. Palmer, 1998 paolo.cavallo@iperbole.bologna.it http://www.alberghetti.it/paolo.cavallo/pc.htm ============================================================ EMERGENCY - UNO STRACCIO DI PACE - www.emergency.it ==== There is a new and excellent tool for what you want. It is called Debug4x and consists of an upgrade to HP Software Development Kit, the HPTools set of PC tools, the EMU48 emulator, built in debuggers for SysRPL and ASM, a communications package for XModem, good help files, documentation and many more features than I can mention in one note. the link for the download (6.6 MB). -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com > I would like to give a try to sysRPL. I got a lot of info from this > newsgroup and hpcalc. I also downloaded a lot of software. But now I am a > bit confused with different OS and versions, not knowing which doc goes with > which software. I would be nice if one could get a complete distribution of > tools, making a consistent whole. > Is there an IDE for compiling on the PC (Win98) for hp49? ==== William Graves ha scritto nel messaggio > The product has been in BETA test for some time now and I will release it > the link for the download (6.6 MB). PC ==== Paolo, Although all my SysRPL programming has been done on the 49G itself, using Emacs as the editor, my recommendation would be to use the EMU48 emulator (running the 49G ROM, of course) on your PC. This allows you to effectively do the programming (definitely use Emacs) and see the results all in one easy environment. Ciao, Simon I would like to give a try to sysRPL. I got a lot of info from this > newsgroup and hpcalc. I also downloaded a lot of software. But now I am a > bit confused with different OS and versions, not knowing which doc goes with > which software. I would be nice if one could get a complete distribution of > tools, making a consistent whole. ==== Do you think it is best for safety? PC > Paolo, Although all my SysRPL programming has been done on the 49G itself, > using Emacs as the editor, my recommendation would be to use the EMU48 > emulator (running the 49G ROM, of course) on your PC. This allows you > to effectively do the programming (definitely use Emacs) and see the > results all in one easy environment. Ciao, > Simon ==== Please enlighten me with your experience! Does the Xpander run on the Jornada 720 ? I am thinking of buying one and that would affect a lot my decision. !Demeter! ==== Please enlighten me with your experience! > Does the Xpander run on the Jornada 720 ? > I am thinking of buying one and that would > affect a lot my decision. Xpander software runs on any Windows CE device as long as it has an ARM or SH3 compatible cpu ==== Keyman, as written in Keyman.txt since long, does not support assignments of shiftholds of two keys: alpha and ON. This concerns the 49- Keyman only. The reason is explained below. Clearly, you can assign these shiftholds with the builtin command ASN. But they won't work! For instance, put HALLO on level 2 and 71.31 on level 1 and press ASN. Then rightshift-hold alpha does not echo HALLO in the stack as it should. Probably an old bug in the 49-OS. Even if you run 71.31 DELKEYS afterwards, you've lost 36 bytes of your RAM forever, unless you don't restore a previously made HOME backup. It may be that JYA was not intending to treat the mentioned shiftholds, but then there should have been a notice joining the ROM (was it 19-3?) which introduced user-shiftholds and modified the structure of the UserKeys list - and ASN should definitely refuse to accept such assignments. - Wolfgang PS. There was a small bug in a 49-Keyman option, ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/keys/ ==== I have been trying to install a prog on my 49G for quite a time, but did not manage to succeed. The manual did not help me either. The prog consists of several files of the type PROG. With other progs of the type L.... I did not have any problems at all. Can anybody tell me what I have to do to make these PROGs run on my 49G. The link to the prog is http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3926 THX, Matthias ==== Using the INPUT function, which is defined as: Level2 Level1 Level1 String1 String2 INPUT --> User Input Which will prompt the user and leave the input the user had input on Level 1. Sometimes a copy of String2 within ' ' is left in Level2 above the user input which is left on Level1, or concatenated with the user input, contained in ' ' and left on Level1. This seems to be dependent on wheher String2 is a nullstring or not. I do succeed the INPUT fcn by OBJ-> to convert it appropriately. Any ideas would be appreciated. Tom C.