D-9 ==== Why the heck is a 32SII manual going for more than US $70 on eBay? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1942133422 Roger ==== I dont know? Why is caviar so expensive? be sure to understand http://www.anti-matrix.net ==== I'd like someone to inform me about making my 49G to work(or look) like 48GX. thank you and sorry for my English ==== > I'd like someone to inform me about making my 49G to work(or look) like > 48GX. If you only want the HP49 to be set to use RPN, then read the manual, you'll easily find how. If you want to completely change the behaviour of the HP49 to 'mimic' the HP48, just buy an HP48. -- ----- Normalement un enfant a le droit de monter .88 l'avant de l'automobile .88 partir de 10 ans, .89ge .88 partir duquel il compte pour une personne. Avant il ne compte que pour une demi-personne. -+- MCG in : Guide du Neuneu d'Usenet - En voiture Simone -+- ==== hi, Set your calc first to RPN mode. Do this in the mode menu. If you want to have soft-menus like on the 48-series just set flag -117. -117 SF [ENTER] (you have to be in RPN mode, of course) Roman > I'd like someone to inform me about making my 49G to work(or look) like > 48GX. > thank you and sorry for my English > > ==== > If you want to completely change the behaviour of the HP49 to 'mimic' the > HP48, just buy an HP48. What a useful answer ! [Mode] -> RPN -117 SF (softmenu on) -105 SF (approx mode on) if you want most calculations program to behave like on the HP48 ==== Useless post (mine, not OP's). If you can't read greek, skip ahead. Geia sou patriwth :-) . Xairomai poy ay3h8hke se treis o ari8mos twn ellhnwn (mallon tesseris me ton allo Niko) poy xrhsimopoioyn HP calcs. Aporw pws o Tsiros den bghke na xairethsei :-) . -- Al. Andreou | http://nemesis.ee.teiath.gr/~ee4299/ | http://hydra.hellug.gr/ Scratch the disks! Drop the core! Roll the tapes across the floor! ==== > Useless post (mine, not OP's). If you can't read greek, skip ahead. > > Geia sou patriwth :-) . Xairomai poy ay3h8hke se treis o ari8mos twn ellhnwn > (mallon tesseris me ton allo Niko) poy xrhsimopoioyn HP calcs. > > Aporw pws o Tsiros den bghke na xairethsei :-) . Message in Greek: E! Re patrioth! Eimai kai ego edo! Ara eimaste 5 :-) Ayksanesthai kai plhthynesthai!!! Les na ftiaksoume kai 49G Greek fun club? Arkei h HP na mhn mas egkataleipsei :-) Alexandros Markaths Politikos Mhxanikos EMP ==== > Useless post (mine, not OP's). If you can't read greek, skip ahead. > > Geia sou patriwth :-) . Xairomai poy ay3h8hke se treis o ari8mos twn ellhnwn > (mallon tesseris me ton allo Niko) poy xrhsimopoioyn HP calcs. Pio polloi eimaste re, na mh 3exname kai ton Trabakoula ;-) H messogeiakh symoria megalonei. Vale kai ton rcobo mesa, ki' aytos dikos mas einai. > Aporw pws o Tsiros den bghke na xairethsei :-) . 8a phge me ton Trabakoula na ewoskania ta prowata edo eparapera ;-) Incompatible greek greetings, Nick. ==== I just got a used 49g today. With the little user's guide. Where can I get any of the other manuals that HP used to have on their web site? Also, my display lcd screen seems to 'black out' when it is a little cold ie 60F ? ==== > I just got a used 49g today. With the little user's guide. Where can I get > any of the other manuals that HP used to have on their web site? > http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=2998 > Also, my display lcd screen seems to 'black out' when it is a little cold ie > 60F ? Sorry, can't help you there. -- | Keiran | | http://www.umr.edu/~faucett | ==== > I just got a used 49g today. With the little user's guide. Where can I get > any of the other manuals that HP used to have on their web site? > > Also, my display lcd screen seems to 'black out' when it is a little cold ie > 60F ? Welcome to the club! About documentation, browse through http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/ You can also take a look at: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/programming/ http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/faq/ About the display, try pressing at the same time [ON][+] to increase contrast or [ON][-] to decrease contrast. Greetings, Nick. ==== > I just got a used 49g today. With the little user's guide. Where can I get > any of the other manuals that HP used to have on their web site? > http://www.hpcalc.org > Also, my display lcd screen seems to 'black out' when it is a little cold ie > 60F ? The display is liquid crystal (lcd). LCD begins to solidify at about 50F, freezes around 40F, and actually cracks (unoperable after that) at 5F. This is average temeratures of course, so individual calcs (watches, laptops, etc) will have different operating ranges. ==== Sorry if this is a silly suggestion, but have you tried adjusting the contrast (hold ON and press + or - a few times)? > > Also, my display lcd screen seems to 'black out' when it is a little cold ie > 60F ? ==== I have a ham radio with a lcd display up in Canada the arctic wastland of the north and it does not crack, just gets a little slow at responding when cold., and it can get cold, 30 below C for instance for horrible weeks at a time (thank God for global warming). On 6 Dec 2002 07:08:08 -0800, top88keys@yahoo.com (Aaron Toponce) >> I just got a used 49g today. With the little user's guide. Where can I get >> any of the other manuals that HP used to have on their web site? >> > >http://www.hpcalc.org > >> Also, my display lcd screen seems to 'black out' when it is a little cold ie >> 60F ? > > >The display is liquid crystal (lcd). LCD begins to solidify at about >50F, freezes around 40F, and actually cracks (unoperable after that) >at 5F. This is average temeratures of course, so individual calcs >(watches, laptops, etc) will have different operating ranges. ==== Sure did. It was a defective lcd screen. It must have been bad before I got it. I have to let it 'warm-up' then it starts to work okay. I been getting it exchanged monday. > Sorry if this is a silly suggestion, but have you tried adjusting the > contrast (hold ON and press + or - a few times)? > > > > > Also, my display lcd screen seems to 'black out' when it is a little cold ie > > 60F ? > ==== What is your opinion the smallest (not necessarily fastest) code recalling the content of a supported normal pointer to the stack (i.e., such one which definitely does not point to flash ROM)? - Wolfgang PS. What I aiming at is extracting the unstable PTR 1D700 from a stable one. In ROM 19-6, PTR 1D700 stack (and recalculates by the way UserKeys.CRC) ==== > What is your opinion the smallest (not necessarily > fastest) code recalling the content of a supported > normal pointer to the stack (i.e., such one which > definitely does not point to flash ROM)? > > - Wolfgang > > PS. What I aiming at is extracting the unstable > PTR 1D700 from a stable one. In ROM 19-6, PTR 1D700 > stack (and recalculates by the way UserKeys.CRC) Not sure I understand correctly.. How about TOTEMPOB ? Werner ==== What's new: -Various bugs fixes -MASD Mode: added GOINA, GOINC, GOINx instructions -Full support for long name files (read the documentation about it) A big thanks to William Graves for his contributionsand the hptools.dll for Debug2 and Debug4x --- Source code and documentation http://www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/product/hptools-src-3.0.8.tar.gz Win32 binary file (native code) http://www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/product/hptools-3.0.8-win32.zip http://www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/product/hptools-3.0.8-linux-i586.tar.gz If these links don't work for you, you can always go there: http://www.hydrix.com/Download/Hp/Hptools But it's only a 128kbit/s line, so don't abuse it... In the meantime, I've submitted them to hpcalc.org, hopefully they will be there soon... ==== Define lets you set a variable: 'X=[10 20 30]' DEFINE will put [10 20 30] in 'X'. To get parts of X out you can do: 'X(2)' EVAL and you'll get back the 20. Is there anyway to do the inverse of that? I.e. setting a value that way? 'X(2)=50' MAGIC And have X become [10 20 30]? I guess part of the problem with that is what to do if X isn't a matrix. Or a list since fetching values from a list works that way too. -- john R. Latala jrlatala@golden.net ==== > Define lets you set a variable: > > 'X=[10 20 30]' DEFINE > > will put [10 20 30] in 'X'. To get parts of X out you can do: > > 'X(2)' EVAL > > and you'll get back the 20. Is there anyway to do the inverse of that? > I.e. setting a value that way? > > 'X(2)=50' MAGIC > > And have X become [10 20 30]? I guess part of the problem with that is > what to do if X isn't a matrix. Or a list since fetching values from a > list works that way too. The magic is STO. Using your example, you should enter 50 'X(2)' STO. Works with vectors and flat lists. For matrices you use two coordinates, like for example 50 'X(2,2)' STO. For nested lists, the whole sub-lists are replaced by new values (or new sub-lists). Example: The list {{4 5 6}{7 8 9}} is in L1. Entering 50 'L1(1)' STO will produce {50 {7 8 9}} in L1. Hope that it helps, Nick. ==== First an error correction: The expression should be (-((-1+sqrt(13))/6))^1 > > Caspar Lugtmeier (who is curious too) Well, a *part* of the real story. Add the fact that beside the change of VX, assumptions are also added to REALASSUME without letting you know. Next time you use some variable for which assumptions are made, you may get wrong results. Add re-storing of your assumptions to betaENTER, and who knows what else. But what I find quite hard to understand, is that real rigorous mode puts arguments of LN in ABS, instead of asking you to switch to complex mode if somehow detected that the argument is < 0 or complex, or just do LN(arg) otherwise. This is where the problem in this case comes from. The CAS takes (-((-1+sqrt(13))/6))^1 and expands it (as always) to exp(ln()) form. Now, in real mode putting the argument for ln() in abs(), converts the argument 1*((-1+sqrt(13))/6) . A minus sign disappears! And the story of things (that for me are not understandable) continues. In real mode, if you enter (-((-1+sqrt(13))/6))^1 and then do n=1 SUBST, then you get -((-1+sqrt(13))/6), the right result. But entering (-((-1+sqrt(13))/6))^1 , { n 1 } and pressing |, and then TEXPAND you get (-1+sqrt(13))/6 . One time it does this, the other time it does that. I know that checking results is an essential part of every calculation, but how far does this have to be taken? If (-arg)^1 EXPAND is able to produce errors, what can I really trust? Do I have to check results of + also? Do I have to SST each step of a simple program only to be sure that no problem occured during program execution? I have the vague feeling that we constructed too many cheap excuses for such heavy failures, like You have to think about the results and the like, only to defend the HP49G even when its failures are not only cosmetic. Do we do that because we still want to believe that some day the ROM will have only a few not very important bugs? Will there ever be such a day? Or is it more like Buy now, and pay eternally?? Greetings, really confused greetings, Nick. > > Veli-Pekka Nousiainen schreef in bericht > > X > > > (and again changes VX to n, grrrrr!). > > > > > > Somebody should go write the Modeman for automatically managing the > > > endless modes combinations of this machine. (Wolfgang? ;-)) > > > > > > Greetings, > > > Nick. > > > > AND now I have to add 'X' STOVX to my BetaENTER > > (or perhaps { HOME CASPAR VX.BAK } RCL STOVX) > > I hate it when the 49 just keep on changing modes, variables, etc. > > all by it's own. The system is flawed, I write Santa to bring me a V200 > > >:-( > > > > ==== > I have the vague feeling that we constructed too many cheap excuses > for such heavy failures, like You have to think about the results > and the like, only to defend the HP49G even when its failures are not > only cosmetic. I have said this for a long time now. > Do we do that because we still want to believe that > some day the ROM will have only a few not very important bugs? Will > there ever be such a day? I do not believe there would - how could there be? Bernard Parisse is not maintaining the CAS anymore, and haven't in a year or more - he's understandingly focusing on his Ginac XCAS. Should JYA fix bugs in the CAS? I think not. Neither JYA, CdB or anybody else owns the complete ROM, and even though some parts of it goes public domain in a half year or so, nobody could ever produce a new compiled ROM for the HP49G, without infringing on the copyrights of HP. ==== CASDIR > > Caspar Lugtmeier (who is curious too) > > Veli-Pekka Nousiainen schreef in bericht > > X > > > (and again changes VX to n, grrrrr!). > > > > > > Somebody should go write the Modeman for automatically managing the > > > endless modes combinations of this machine. (Wolfgang? ;-)) > > > > > > Greetings, > > > Nick. > > > > AND now I have to add 'X' STOVX to my BetaENTER > > (or perhaps { HOME CASPAR VX.BAK } RCL STOVX) > > I hate it when the 49 just keep on changing modes, variables, etc. > > all by it's own. The system is flawed, I write Santa to bring me a V200 > > >:-( > > > > > > ==== > CASDIR Although there are IOPAR, PPAR, PRTPAR, TPAR, SigmaPAR, ... ==== > > I have the vague feeling that we constructed too many cheap excuses > > for such heavy failures, like You have to think about the results > > and the like, only to defend the HP49G even when its failures are not > > only cosmetic. > > I have said this for a long time now. And you were absolutely right. It was probably only me, wanting to defend my HP under any circumstances. > > Do we do that because we still want to believe that > > some day the ROM will have only a few not very important bugs? Will > > there ever be such a day? > > I do not believe there would - how could there be? Bernard Parisse is not > maintaining the CAS anymore, and haven't in a year or more - he's > understandingly focusing on his Ginac XCAS. Should JYA fix bugs in the CAS? > I think not. So, if we retain realism, it should be more trying to find out the dangers and the work arounds, instead of finding out the dangers and expecting somebody to fix the bugs? BTW, work around for { n 1 } | : Use 'n=1' SUBST EXPAND. > Neither JYA, CdB or anybody else owns the complete ROM, and even though some > parts of it goes public domain in a half year or so, nobody could ever > produce a new compiled ROM for the HP49G, without infringing on the > copyrights of HP. I don't have any idea about coryrights and this will not change in the next couple of centuries. But even if HP would allow somebody to bring a new ROM, I don't believe that this would be the beginning of new unbuggy days. Buggy greetings, Nick. ==== Let PRIME denote the numbertheoretic function which enumerates the primes, i.e., PRIME(0)=2, PRIME(1)=3 etc. This is a primitive recursive function which plays a prominent role in what logicians call G.9adelization. It is easy to program PRIME on the HP49. For instance, :: CK1NOLASTWD CKREAL COERCE ZINT 2 SWAP DUP#0=csDROP ZERO_DO xNEXTPRIME LOOP ; computes it for arguments < 100000h. This program is fast enough for small arguments. For instance, it yields the 100th prime (= 541) in 2.5_s. But computing the 1000th prime, PRIME(999)=7919, will last already 42_s. Has anybody an idea of computing PRIME(n) on the 49 in a probabilistic but fast way, at least for n < 100000h (=1048576d) ? - Wolfgang ==== Anyone know where this entry is on HP49 v. 1.19-6, and whether it has been stable? P.S. This is what it's for: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3C87893D.439093B0%40miu.edu . ==== On Sun, 08 Dec 2002 03:34:35 -0600, John H Meyers >Anyone know where this entry is on HP49 v. 1.19-6, >and whether it has been stable? > > >P.S. This is what it's for: >http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3C87893D.439093B0%40miu.edu It's at # 47B73h on 1.19-6. Unfortunately, not only is this in an unstable region but it's inside a flash pointer routine. ( FPTR 1 28C , internal xSERVER ) If you want to access the above in a version independent manner then the following code should probably work unless the code for xSERVER has been changed : :: ' CODE LC(5) (#40222)+5*(#28C) CD0EX RSTK=C A=DAT0 A LC(5) #244 A=A+C A C=RSTK D0=C PC=(A) ENDCODE FLASHPTR 1 0 ; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== > Anyone know where this entry is on HP49 v. 1.19-6, > and whether it has been stable? It's deep inside a bank.. Here is the source code however: :: * Create the directory list and compute its length DOVARS DUPLENCOMP ( null$ { IDn .. ID1 } n ) * Set TRUE if the list is empty DUP#0=ITE ( null$ { IDn .. ID1 } n ) * If the list is null, just drop the list and its length 2DROP ( null$ ) * Else build a directory listing string :: ( names$ { IDn .. ID1 } n ) #1+_ONE_DO (DO) * Get element from list DUPINDEX@ NTHCOMDDUP ( names$ {IDs} IDx IDx ) * Decompile this object name (don't convert special chars), * add its length, type, and checksum, add CR/LF and append * to result string ID>$ APPEND_SPACE ( names$ {IDs} IDx IDx$ ) OVER VARSIZE ( names$ {IDs} IDx IDx$ hxs len% ) RPNDecompEdit APPEND_SPACE ( names$ {IDs} IDx IDx$ hxs len$ ) 4ROLL XEQRCL GET_THE_TYPE ( names$ {IDs} IDx$ hxs len_type$ ) APPEND_SPACE SWAP HXS>% RPNDecompEdit !append$ !append$ APNDCRLF ROT ( {IDs} IDx_len_type_cksm$ names$ ) !insert$ ( {IDs} names'$ ) SWAPLOOP (LOOP) DROP ( names$ ) ; ; ( end of error trap ) ==== Another diamond of the collection of curiosities. The CAS command SUBST will also do substitutions like: 'A(n)+2' 'A(n)=10' SUBST -> '10+2' But using | we have problems. In the stack syntax, if we enter 'A(n)+2' {A(n) 10} and press |, we get a Bad Argument Type Error. In algebraic syntax, you are not even allowed to enter 'A(n)+2|(A(n)=10)' But, enter 'A(n)+2|(A=10), press [->LST], enter 2, enter 'A(n)' and press [PUT]. Now press [->ALG], Voila! There we have the expression 'A(n)+2|(A(n)=10)' So far so good, but it gets even better! This expression is almost perfectly editable in the EQW, and yes, you can EXPAND it like any other algebraic object. So the question is, why isn't it possible to type that directly in the EQW? Are there any potential dangers when using such expressions? Greetings, Nick. ==== I get a bizarre error with my 48gx, where when I try to replace the batteries the entire screen goes blue (all the pixels on) with alpha and the hourglass at the top. Then the screen starts to fade to blank from the bottom up. It doesn't seem to respond to any tests or keys at all. Any Ideas? I'm a pretty big HP newb, I apologize if this is something simple or straightforward; I didn't see any solutions in the manual. Devin ==== > when I try to replace the batteries the entire screen goes blue Singing the blues? How does each battery orientation (+ vs. -) compare with the legend in the battery compartment? Did you first use OFF (and avoid hitting the ON key when turned over)? Having straightened out the above, try adjusting contrast (ON with +, ON with -); does the beeper beep at all? (press backspace) If no go, try paper clip in reset hole (see User's Guide). If still a blue screen, check whether you've inadvertently downloaded Windows into it :) [r->] [OFF] . ==== I would like to get a ROM card for a new user with an ml program that I uploaded to hpcalc in October, ProBJ. I have not heard any feedback regarding the program but recommend it to anyone who plays blackjack (http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=5316). Todd Eckrich ==== Raymond schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I would like to get a ROM card for a new user with an ml program that I > uploaded to hpcalc in October, ProBJ. I have not heard any feedback > regarding the program but recommend it to anyone who plays blackjack > (http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=5316). > > > Todd Eckrich > > ==== Can keyman be used to controle keys while in EQW? I hate repeating myself. ==== > Can keyman be used to controle keys while in EQW? > > I hate repeating myself. No. When you start the EQW the user keyboard is disabled only standard key will work ==== > > Can keyman be used to controle keys while in EQW? > No. When you start the EQW the user keyboard is > disabled - only standard key will work Like EQW, most complex applications like editor or Interactive stack or the GRAPH environement disable any user key assignment. Moreover, they use own temporary standard key assignment which only partly agree with the default standard functionality of a key. You can use an application's temporary key functionality by making a key-record with the command K&SA longhold. EXAMPLE: record the key sequence EQW NXT which sets the EQW and at once page 2 of its apps menu, containing the CAS-commands and HELP for those. Then assign to the EQW-key the program << If normally hit set EQW but if longhold set in addition page 2 of the EQW's menu >> This program is made with the IfL-option in the usual way. Thus, if EQW is normally hit, you get page 1, but if hold slightly longer, page 2 of the apps menu is automatically set. You may also start the EQW at once in minifont if you like it, etc. Several other examples are contained in Keyman.txt which should be read before asking in the NG. Keyman.text contains much information on key-functionality which is nowhere else documented. - Wolfgang ==== So I gather it is not possible to use user defined keys in EQW, so I guess I will stop to try. I did read the manual, but was still unclear on if it was possible. I have another question re: keyman. I was trying to assign a program to a key space key using a double click and also a different program to the same space key using a long press. But it did not work. It seems that the key assignment took only for the last assignment and always erased the previous one. Is this to be expected? Stan On Sat, 07 Dec 2002 08:04:49 +0100, Wolfgang Rautenberg >> > Can keyman be used to controle keys while in EQW? >> No. When you start the EQW the user keyboard is >> disabled - only standard key will work > >Like EQW, most complex applications like editor >or Interactive stack or the GRAPH environement >disable any user key assignment. Moreover, they >use own temporary standard key assignment which >only partly agree with the default standard >functionality of a key. > >You can use an application's temporary key >functionality by making a key-record with the >command K&SA longhold. EXAMPLE: record the >key sequence EQW NXT which sets the EQW and >at once page 2 of its apps menu, containing >the CAS-commands and HELP for those. Then >assign to the EQW-key the program ><< If normally hit set EQW but if longhold >set in addition page 2 of the EQW's menu >> >This program is made with the IfL-option in >the usual way. Thus, if EQW is normally hit, >you get page 1, but if hold slightly longer, >page 2 of the apps menu is automatically set. > >You may also start the EQW at once in minifont >if you like it, etc. Several other examples are >contained in Keyman.txt which should be read >before asking in the NG. Keyman.text contains >much information on key-functionality which is >nowhere else documented. > >- Wolfgang ==== > >> Can keyman be used to controle keys while in EQW? >> >> I hate repeating myself. > >No. >When you start the EQW the user keyboard is disabled only standard key will >work > > ==== > I was trying to assign a program to a key space key using a double > click and also a different program to the same space key using a > long press. You should perhaps be somewhat more precise. Compositions of longpress and double-click on the same non-shifted key like SPC may cause problems as far as I remember. Note that TopKeys on my website under .../HP49/keys contains wonderful examples of compositions of shifthold and longhold. For instance, there is an assignment on LShold pi toggling RAD/DEG if pi is normally hit and the 3 coordinate systems if pi is longhold - while all the time the Leftshift key is hold. This applies in edit mode as well. Longhold and double-click may also be used in library commands as is illustrated by the toggler ~FONT from OT49 (latest version on my site, probably not yet on hpcalc.org). It toggles Minifont and current font if normally hit - independently in default and in edit mode - and it toggles the three builtin fonts if double-clicked. Fast and convenient toggling of Minifont is important for long programming sessions. Toggling the builtin fonts is less important. I use Font7 sometimes for editing SysRPL although it is somewhat ugly :-) - Wolfgang ==== Wolfgang Rautenberg schrieb im Newsbeitrag > [..] > Fast and convenient toggling of Minifont is important > for long programming sessions. Toggling the builtin > fonts is less important. I use Font7 sometimes for > editing SysRPL although it is somewhat ugly :-) > you could try my RayFnt7 for the 49G, which is far more readable than the built-in one. It replaces the system font 7. As a side note, RayFnt7 was the first custom font for the 49G in 1999;-) Raymond Ref: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3335 ==== > you could try my RayFnt7 for the 49G, > which is far more readable than the built-in one. > It replaces the system font 7. > > As a side note, RayFnt7 was the first custom font for the 49G in 1999;-) on the HP49 ==== > > > you could try my RayFnt7 for the 49G, > > which is far more readable than the built-in one. > > It replaces the system font 7. > > > > As a side note, RayFnt7 was the first custom font for the 49G in 1999;-) > directly > on the HP49 > Yes, but those are only predecessors of 49G built-in fonts (or editor features). And they're bold and italic, and were not specificially made for the 49G. My aim in those days was to have a font in size 7 which I can better read, and so I made this one especially for the 49G;-) In this aspect, it was the first one. Raymond ==== > Yes, but those are only predecessors of 49G built-in fonts (or editor > features). > And they're bold and italic, and were not specificially made for the 49G. Well, the format is exactly the same (and same prologue either)... So anything designed for the MK was also designed for the HP49 then :) > > My aim in those days was to have a font in size 7 which I can better read, > and so I made this one especially for the 49G;-) > > In this aspect, it was the first one. If that makes you happy :) ==== I am having problems with the roller on a HP41. Could anyone please the card reader Tim ==== Try this link: Arnold On 9 Dec 2002 22:38:17 -0800, Timothy.Ney@nrm.qld.gov.au (HPMackayQld) >I am having problems with the roller on a HP41. Could anyone please >the card reader > > >Tim ==== > Anyway, I am having a problem in the comparisons--for one test I ran a > double summation: for y from 1 to 10 and for x from 1 to 10 of (x^3*y^3 + > x^2*y^2 + x*y)---my other systems gave the result 9301875, but my 49G keeps > saying 44804650...I MUST be entering something wrong on the 49 but I cannot > figure out what....could someone else please try this calculation?..... My 48G also gives the result 9301875. I checked it with Mathematica. You should post your stack display to show what you have entered! CU Andreas ==== > Anyway, I am having a problem in the comparisons--for one test I ran a > double summation: for y from 1 to 10 and for x from 1 to 10 of (x^3*y^3 + > x^2*y^2 + x*y)---my other systems gave the result 9301875, but my 49G keeps > saying 44804650...I MUST be entering something wrong on the 49 but I cannot > figure out what....could someone else please try this calculation?..... The syntax ('Sigma' is the summation function): 'Sigma(Y=1,10,Sigma(X=1,10,X^3*Y^3+X^2*Y^2+X*Y))' Enter the above in the command line, and view it in the EQW to see where you made the mistake... ==== > > Hmm....the above is what shows when I VIEW this in TEXT mode...I don't > get what I'm doing wrong, yet.... > > Roger > > Ouch...maybe my 49 is sicker than I thought....I had another new 49G I was saving and I opened it up and it gave me the correct answer.... Roger ==== > Hmm....the above is what shows when I VIEW this in TEXT mode...I don't > get what I'm doing wrong, yet.... You don't have anything stored in either 'X', 'Y' or both? If that's the case, then either; 'X' is equal to 11.35618124 or 'Y' is equal to 11.35618124 or 'X*Y' is equal to 76.1836718955 It would surprise me if this was the case though, as you are reporting an integer result from the summations. ==== > > You don't have anything stored in either 'X', 'Y' or both? > > It would surprise me if this was the case though, as you are reporting an > integer result from the summations. > > Yeah, I checked for values stored in 'x' or 'y' but I don't think there was anything there..anyway, I never did figure out what was wrong...but I did get the 49 working ok and I'm getting the correct result now..... Roger ==== > I'm getting the correct result now..... For the wrong reason: 'GS(Y=1,10,GS(X=1,10,X^3*Y^3+X^2*Y^2+X*Y))' Neither variable 'X' nor 'Y' exists. Input and evaluated in Approximate mode: 9301875. [right] Input and evaluated in Exact mode: 44804650 [wrong] Evaluating in Exact mode demands changing to Radian mode, etc. (this begins to sound suspicious to me) Alternative computation in Exact mode: << 0 1 10 FOR x 1 10 FOR y 'x^3*y^3+x^2*y^2+x*y' EVAL + NEXT NEXT >> This results in 9301875 [right], albeit more slowly. Back to the drawing board... [r->] [OFF] . ==== Seeking more clues as to what's wrong here with the CAS: ------ mode ------ Formula Approx. Exact 'GS(Y=1,10,GS(X=1,10,X^2*Y^3))' 1164625. 5636400 'GS(X=1,10,GS(Y=1,10,X^2*Y^3))' 1164625. 4023250 In this case, I replaced the previous symmetrical formula (invariant under X<->Y interchange) with an asymmetrical one; the second of the above expressions then reverses the order of the summation variables (without changing the expression), which should make no difference to the sum -- but it does make a big difference to the CAS, which never gets it right. Doing it step-by-step manually, however: 'GS(X=1,10,X^2*Y^3)' ==> '385*Y^3' 'GS(Y=1,10,385*Y^3)' ==> 1164625 'GS(Y=1,10,X^2*Y^3)' ==> '3025*X^2' 'GS(X=1,10,3025*X^2)' ==> 1164625 Are we having fun yet? [r->] [OFF] . ==== > > > I'm getting the correct result now..... > > For the wrong reason: > > > 'GS(Y=1,10,GS(X=1,10,X^3*Y^3+X^2*Y^2+X*Y))' > > Neither variable 'X' nor 'Y' exists. > > Input and evaluated in Approximate mode: 9301875. [right] > > Input and evaluated in Exact mode: 44804650 [wrong] > > Evaluating in Exact mode demands changing to Radian mode, etc. > (this begins to sound suspicious to me) > What am I doing wrong? I don't get the error!! ;-) Both approx and exact mode give the correct result, even though exact evaluation demands RAD mode change. ROM 1.19-6, of course, VER 4.20010912 Werner ==== > 'GS(Y=1,10,GS(X=1,10,X^3*Y^3+X^2*Y^2+X*Y))' > What am I doing wrong? I don't get the error!! ;-) > Both approx and exact mode give the correct result, > even though exact evaluation demands RAD mode change. Try my initial flags (just prior to changing to Exact mode): { #7880010200605FF3h #0 #7555610A216020h #0 } Which ones differ (XOR) from your flags? > VERSION 1.19-6, of course, and VER 4.20010912 That's what mine also says (and I even think my 1.19-6 was the last 1.19-6 :) I got the exact same (wrong) value as Roger did initially, although on Emu48, while Roger's was on actual hardware. [r->] [OFF] . ==== Discussing this summation: > 'GS(Y=1,10,GS(X=1,10,X^3*Y^3+X^2*Y^2+X*Y))' Correct answer should be 9301875, but some folks get 44804650 (in Exact mode, rom 1.19-6). See previous post for other similar example, in which even the summation order changes the result. > What am I doing wrong? I don't get the error!! ;-) Set flag -111; there ya go! Who would like to explain why? If it's not rational, please add it to Bugzilla :) Here was another flag anomaly in 1.19-6 CAS, re flag -125 http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3D8F4A5E.E04DC09E%40miu.edu But this was, after all, a flagship calculator :) [r->] [OFF] . ==== > >> > >> Hey Nick: > >> Hmmm, I'm not sure, but you're probably right...let me run a couple > of > >> tests--invert some matrices and do some integration, etc.... > > >Oh, crap! I just tried to start up the trusty old 49G--and nothing > >happened!! (yes, as a matter of fact, I did check the batteries....) > > >Oh my, oh my, the sky is falling, > >Roger > > Well, my 49G is OK (reset, left batteries out for a while)....the Casio > A22T certainly does seem to run calculations faster---but then the Casio > hardware (even though, in my opinion, does not compare well with other $495 > devices) is much improved over what the 49G has---this is really an apples > and oranges comparison--it seems to me that the limitation we find with our > 49Gs is not at all in the CAS but the limited memory and slow processor.... > > Anyway, I am having a problem in the comparisons--for one test I ran a > double summation: for y from 1 to 10 and for x from 1 to 10 of (x^3*y^3 + > x^2*y^2 + x*y)---my other systems gave the result 9301875, but my 49G keeps > saying 44804650...I MUST be entering something wrong on the 49 but I cannot > figure out what....could someone else please try this calculation?..... > > Happy holidays, > Roger > > ==== > >> > >> Hey Nick: > >> Hmmm, I'm not sure, but you're probably right...let me run a couple > of > saying 44804650...I MUST be entering something wrong on the 49 but I cannot > figure out what....could someone else please try this SIGMA-list is bugged. There is a problem with formal- indices variables and actual( global) variables, in EXACT mode. To illustrate: 5 SIGMA W W=1 'G' STO 1) Delete all occurences of W in the path. ( current directory and all above) calculate sum, answer in both exact and numeric mode is OK: G EVAL 15 Now, 2) store an INTEGER in W somewhere in the path. 1000 'W' STO 3) set hp49 to exact mode, and calculate sum. G EVAL -> 5000 You get no warning that this result is wrong. 4) store an real in W 2.5 'W' STO 5) calculate sum G EVAL -> 15. note result is real vauled not integer as one should expect. decompile the SIGMA function above: SYMBOL SYMBOL ID W ; ZINT 1 ZINT 5 SYMBOL ID W ; xSUM ; @ I don't know how SIGMA function works, but it seems to me that the check if the variables in SIGMA( ) are also formal counting variables need to be reconsidered, and used instead of any global/or local variables. Perhaps this is caused by INTEGERS belonging to symbolic class. Gjermund Skailand PS I found the above only a few days ago, when considering how to include SIGMA in my longflooat library... ==== > > > 'GS(Y=1,10,GS(X=1,10,X^3*Y^3+X^2*Y^2+X*Y))' > > > What am I doing wrong? I don't get the error!! ;-) > > Both approx and exact mode give the correct result, > > even though exact evaluation demands RAD mode change. I also get the correct result and no error, like Werner, regardless of exact/approx. mode setting. > Try my initial flags (just prior to changing to Exact mode): > { #7880010200605FF3h #0 #7555610A216020h #0 } Even after storing your flags I still got the right result on the HP49G, no matter if I EXPANDed or EVALuated. > > VERSION 1.19-6, of course, and VER 4.20010912 > > That's what mine also says > (and I even think my 1.19-6 was the last 1.19-6 :) Was there any 1.19-6 which was laster than the others? Greetings, Nick. ==== 1.19-6, of course, and VER 4.20010912 > > That's what mine also says > > (and I even think my 1.19-6 was the last 1.19-6 :) > > Was there any 1.19-6 which was laster than the others? > > Greetings, > Nick. I checked mine and it is 4.20001013 and 1.19-5....I THOUGHT that I was running 1.19-6, but I guess I forgot the latest upgrade... Roger ==== > > > > > 'GS(Y=1,10,GS(X=1,10,X^3*Y^3+X^2*Y^2+X*Y))' > > > > > What am I doing wrong? I don't get the error!! ;-) > > > Both approx and exact mode give the correct result, > > > even though exact evaluation demands RAD mode change. > > I also get the correct result and no error, like Werner, regardless of > exact/approx. mode setting. > > > Try my initial flags (just prior to changing to Exact mode): > > { #7880010200605FF3h #0 #7555610A216020h #0 } > > Even after storing your flags I still got the right result on the > HP49G, no matter if I EXPANDed or EVALuated. > > > > VERSION 1.19-6, of course, and VER 4.20010912 > > > > That's what mine also says > > (and I even think my 1.19-6 was the last 1.19-6 :) > > Was there any 1.19-6 which was laster than the others? > > Greetings, > Nick. My experience: Use exact mode, you may have to set VX to something different from X 1) save a real in X, calculate 2) save an integer in X, calculate compare results ;( -Gjermund ==== I would like to give a try to sysRPL. I got a lot of info from this newsgroup and hpcalc. I also downloaded a lot of software. But now I am a bit confused with different OS and versions, not knowing which doc goes with which software. I would be nice if one could get a complete distribution of tools, making a consistent whole. Is there an IDE for compiling on the PC (Win98) for hp49? Which version of HPTools should I use? Which reserved words should a source file begin with, in order of compiling for hp49 with HPTools? ============================================================ Paolo Cavallo I am a teacher at heart, and there are moments in the classroom when I can hardly hold the joy. P. J. Palmer, 1998 paolo.cavallo@iperbole.bologna.it http://www.alberghetti.it/paolo.cavallo/pc.htm ============================================================ EMERGENCY - UNO STRACCIO DI PACE - www.emergency.it ==== Paolo, Although all my SysRPL programming has been done on the 49G itself, using Emacs as the editor, my recommendation would be to use the EMU48 emulator (running the 49G ROM, of course) on your PC. This allows you to effectively do the programming (definitely use Emacs) and see the results all in one easy environment. Ciao, Simon > > I would like to give a try to sysRPL. I got a lot of info from this > newsgroup and hpcalc. I also downloaded a lot of software. But now I am a > bit confused with different OS and versions, not knowing which doc goes with > which software. I would be nice if one could get a complete distribution of > tools, making a consistent whole. ==== There is a new and excellent tool for what you want. It is called Debug4x and consists of an upgrade to HP Software Development Kit, the HPTools set of PC tools, the EMU48 emulator, built in debuggers for SysRPL and ASM, a communications package for XModem, good help files, documentation and many more features than I can mention in one note. the link for the download (6.6 MB). -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com > I would like to give a try to sysRPL. I got a lot of info from this > newsgroup and hpcalc. I also downloaded a lot of software. But now I am a > bit confused with different OS and versions, not knowing which doc goes with > which software. I would be nice if one could get a complete distribution of > tools, making a consistent whole. > Is there an IDE for compiling on the PC (Win98) for hp49? ==== William Graves ha scritto nel messaggio > The product has been in BETA test for some time now and I will release it > the link for the download (6.6 MB). PC ==== Do you think it is best for safety? PC > Paolo, > > Although all my SysRPL programming has been done on the 49G itself, > using Emacs as the editor, my recommendation would be to use the EMU48 > emulator (running the 49G ROM, of course) on your PC. This allows you > to effectively do the programming (definitely use Emacs) and see the > results all in one easy environment. > > Ciao, > Simon ==== > Do you think it is best for safety? > Certainly with the ability to do quick backup and restore etc., it should be a very good environment. As I mentioned, I have done virtually all of my SysRPL development (an extensive engineering library with over 60 functions/routines) using just the tools on the 49 itself. Being able to do so on a PC for speed of typing etc., should make it very easy. The tools that have helped me the most are Emacs, and Inform Builder. Ciao, Simon ==== Two question about the 49g: -How to connect the calc to the PC using the higher speed (15360 bauds) ? -how to use the x49kit ? ==== > Two question about the 49g: > -How to connect the calc to the PC using the higher speed (15360 bauds) ? You can't > -how to use the x49kit ? Put HP 49G ix Xmodem Server mode Drag&Drop from Windows Explorer to x49kit window ==== > > -how to use the x49kit ? There is a much better x49kit (v2.0) called Conn4x available at: http://nereids.home.netcom.com/Conn4x.zip This version has some newer features, works a little faster on the HP-49G AND supports HP-48. Help yourself and give to your friends. It has been sent to HPCalc.org but has not yet appeared there! I think software development is a truly miraculous occupation! -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com ==== can anybody tell me the differences between the old Indonesia and the new China built ones, if any? I read somewhere in the group that the Chinese ones should have better keyboards and screens. Can that be confirmed by experience? I have an Indonesian one S/N: ID937.... Werner Luehmann ==== The keyboard is less stiff ever since the HP 39/40 models were introduced The solid screen cover is acrylic and will not scratch easily Also the rainbow effect is greatly reduced. I have _never_ had any hardware problems with my HP 49G I'm happy with my Indonesian model (with the serial bug) > > can anybody tell me the differences between the old Indonesia and the > new China built ones, if any? I read somewhere in the group that the > Chinese ones should have better keyboards and screens. Can that be > confirmed by experience? I have an Indonesian one S/N: ID937.... > > > Werner Luehmann > ==== In general, the HP-49G original from CHINA (CN), is better, but only have (in many cases) a little problem ... the internal capacitor or condenser. The Solution: If you have a problem, or know any case, must be change the condenser with other of 1000 microfarad's and 6.3 volts. Warning with the connection. Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK **************************************************************************** *** > > can anybody tell me the differences between the old Indonesia and the > new China built ones, if any? I read somewhere in the group that the > Chinese ones should have better keyboards and screens. Can that be > confirmed by experience? I have an Indonesian one S/N: ID937.... > > > Werner Luehmann ==== I'd like to buy an old HP48SX If anybody has one, please write me ___________________________ Luca ENEA-SPILIMBERGO FUJI FinePix S602Zoom http://www1.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=26481 ==== > That is incorrect. > No matter how old a piece of software is, the original author always keeps > the copyright on his work... Always is a pretty strong word. In the US, for individual works, the copyright term lasts until 70 years after the author's death. For works of corporate authorship, the term lasts for 95 years after the creation of the work. However, unless the U.S. Supreme Court rules in favor of Eldred, Congress will probably keep extending the copyright term indefinitely. I don't know anything about the copyright laws of other countries, although in theory the purpose of the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act was to harmonize the U.S. copyright term with those of some other countries. ==== > Just had a look.. The software must be on a CDR, it's forbidden to sell > content on CDR on ebay It is? If I publish my own works on CDR, I can't sell them on eBay??? ==== I asked about eBay's CD-R policy? > It is? If I publish my own works on CDR, I can't sell them on eBay??? > If you're the copyright owner of the material, you may publish a CD-R with > it on Ebay. This is the only case where it is allowed. So if I publish my own work on CD-R, sell it to Fred, and then Fred decides to resell on eBay the original disc he purchased from me, they won't let him? That seems completely outrageous. ==== He could sell it directly to a friend or publish an add elsewhere. You have to do something to stop those who sell stolen software. Just an opinion. > I asked about eBay's CD-R policy? > > It is? If I publish my own works on CDR, I can't sell them on eBay??? > > > If you're the copyright owner of the material, you may publish a CD-R with > > it on Ebay. This is the only case where it is allowed. > > So if I publish my own work on CD-R, sell it to Fred, and then Fred decides > to resell on eBay the original disc he purchased from me, they won't let him? > That seems completely outrageous. ==== > So if I publish my own work on CD-R, sell it to Fred, and then Fred decides > to resell on eBay the original disc he purchased from me, they won't let him? Right. > That seems completely outrageous. Did you follow the link JYA provided at all? I won't quote it - go read it yourself. It makes perfect sense. ==== That is what I meant.. being that most software for the 48/49 is free to begin with - it should remain that way no matter how old it gets. Of course, if the author stated otherwise, then it should remain as per the author's statement. I think we are all in agreement, that just because it is old doesn't mean it is no longer the intellectual property of the author. Aaron > > > > Free to all, unless otherwise stated by the author. > > > > That is incorrect. > No matter how old a piece of software is, the original author always keeps > the copyright on his work... > ==== > He could sell it directly to a friend or publish an add elsewhere. > You have to do something to stop those who sell stolen software. Stopping sales of legitimate items isn't an appropriate or reasonable way to accomplish that. ==== > Did you follow the link JYA provided at all? I won't quote it - go read it > yourself. It makes perfect sense. Yes, I did, and I dispute that it makes perfect sense. I have bought software and music through legitimate channels that was supplied on CD-R. As the legitimate owner of these discs, I fail to see how it is reasonable for eBay to refuse to let me auction them on their site. Next they'll tell me that I can't sell printed matter that was reproduced by xerography, it has to be offset printed. ==== Eric Smith :: > >>Did you follow the link JYA provided at all? I won't quote it - go read it >>yourself. It makes perfect sense. > > > Yes, I did, and I dispute that it makes perfect sense. I have bought > software and music through legitimate channels that was supplied on > CD-R. As the legitimate owner of these discs, I fail to see how it > is reasonable for eBay to refuse to let me auction them on their site. What follows is not opinion in either direction, just comment: usually you will not become owner of the software or music. You only buy the right to use/listen the creation. Sometimes it is stated in licence that the right to use/listen may not be transferred by you to someone else :( For example in Estonia the Business Software Alliance asks the install media, Licence and cheque to prove that you have rights to use MS Windows/Office... Robert Tiismus ==== > What follows is not opinion in either direction, just comment: usually > you will not become owner of the software or music. You only buy the > right to use/listen the creation. In the US, when you buy the CD you also have the right to resell it. The copyright owner has no legal basis to prevent you from doing that, as part of the doctrine of first sale. This is true whether the original disc you buy is a pressed CD, CD-R, CD-RW, or any other medium. ==== > Did you follow the link JYA provided at all? I won't quote it - go read it > yourself. It makes perfect sense. > Yes, I did, and I dispute that it makes perfect sense. I have bought > software and music through legitimate channels that was supplied on > CD-R. In fact, there was just a news story today about several major record companies starting to sell music on CD-R. This makes eBay's policy even more obviously flawed. ==== > Yes, I did, and I dispute that it makes perfect sense. I have bought > software and music through legitimate channels that was supplied on > CD-R. Of course that can happen, but how rarely do you think it is, still, > As the legitimate owner of these discs, I fail to see how it > is reasonable for eBay to refuse to let me auction them on their site. It doesn't have to be reasonable - it just is that way. Ebay can do it if they want to. would you choose: is sold too. - One guy has to keep his CD-R, or sell it locally or to a friend, while the same happens to 100000 criminals? > Next they'll tell me that I can't sell printed matter that was reproduced > by xerography, it has to be offset printed. Does that happen to you alot? ==== > In fact, there was just a news story today about several major record > companies starting to sell music on CD-R. This makes eBay's policy even > more obviously flawed. How well do you see into the future? Ebays policies may change when the world change. Please stop being such a cantankerous person. ==== > Stopping sales of legitimate items isn't an appropriate or reasonable > way to accomplish that. Ebay can disallow whatever they want to - you do not have a say in that. ==== > companies starting to sell music on CD-R. This makes eBay's policy even > more obviously flawed. > The problem is a very generic problem of human society. Because many people abuse the system you have to make rules that we abuse the majority. My guess with CDR is that more people abused the system and legit users. After all, Ebay used to allow such sale previously. Changes were made recently, probably because it tooks too much time (and therefore money) for ebay to manage all the infractions ==== > Stopping sales of legitimate items isn't an appropriate or reasonable > way to accomplish that [stopping sales of stolen items] I once saw a premium manufacturer of sunglasses & such, declaring flatly that *any* sale at auction of their brand was counterfeit, and that they would prosecute any such sale, because apparently *some* such sales were counterfeit. Their attorney seemed to evidence a faint glimmer of comprehension when we corresponded, that it was not criminal This mentality, however, is prevalent in the world, where it is not recognized that outside force and repression does not establish desired cooperative and supportive feelings within people, whereas development of consciousness from within is what does so. -[]- . ==== > Next they'll tell me that I can't sell printed matter > that was reproduced by xerography, it has to be offset printed. That would of course eliminate HP from selling old manuals which they photocopy themselves, because the original is no longer in print. But it wouldn't surprise me if any idle corporate attorney went after re-sales, even of the genuine original photocopy :) To some extent, a company like eBay has to cover its rear, by doing something to discourage those frauds which do occur, just to absolve itself of responsibility, and this, in turn, impinges as well upon the freedom of those who are innocent. The overly litigious nature of current society (and the mood of juries) must also be contributing factors. -[]- . ==== > To some extent, a company like eBay has to cover its rear, > by doing something to discourage those frauds which do occur, > just to absolve itself of responsibility, and this, in turn, > impinges as well upon the freedom of those who are innocent. And why then does the telephone company not have to monitor your telephone calls to make sure that you're not using them to plan criminal activity? for any failures. It would have been better for eBay to stick to their only a venue claim. By going down this path, eventually they will find themselves liable for failing to prevent an unlawful sale. ==== > > I don't know anything about the copyright laws of other countries, although > in theory the purpose of the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act was > to harmonize the U.S. copyright term with those of some other countries. While that may have been someone's stated purpose, the true purpose of the Sonny Bony act, which was heavily lobbied for by Disney, and written by Disney's lawyers, was to prevent Mickey Mouse from becoming public domain when it's copyright expired. I think it was due to expire a year or two later. But, of course, now it won't, thanks to our Mickey Mouse copyright law. :) I'm all for people being paid for their work but all this stuff about people owning words and bit patterns is just silly. They keep extending copyrights because business lobbies congress and gets them re-elected. Nobody owns words or numbers. I refuse to acknowlege that. I'll accept a ban for a while on using other people's ideas. Give people a monopoly on their ideas for a reasonable period so they'll be motivated to keep coming up with new ideas. That's what copyrights are about. A few decades ago the city of Deer Park, Texas (a small suburb of Houston) found itself surrounded on all sides by other cities and as a result could no longer annex adjacent areas. Everyone thought it was as big as it was going to get. But they showed the world. They annexed the moon and became the largest city near Earth. It was all done legally. And it made a lot more sense to own the moon than to own a combination of words or notes or bits. I'm not advocating piracy. I don't like piracy at all. But I am advocating rational copyright laws and not that nonsense we have today. Barry ==== > And why then does the telephone company not have to monitor your > telephone calls to make sure that you're not using them to plan > criminal activity? > for any failures. But don't worry, the NSA is doing the monitoring for them ;) Radio and TV broadcasters, print media, etc. are responsible in certain ways for what emanates from their transmitter or press, even if they didn't originate or produce the content -- including balance-sheet liability, regardless of law. > It would have been better for eBay to stick to their only a venue > claim. By going down this path, eventually they will find themselves > liable for failing to prevent an unlawful sale. Probably they already are. Have you noticed that firearms manufacturers are recently being sued for failing to prevent their products from being used wrongfully, under a manufacturing defect theory? To a certain extent, juries (and public opinion) make the law. -[]- . ==== > > > It would have been better for eBay to stick to their only a venue > > claim. By going down this path, eventually they will find themselves > > liable for failing to prevent an unlawful sale. > > Probably they already are. > > Have you noticed that firearms manufacturers are recently being > sued for failing to prevent their products from being used > wrongfully, under a manufacturing defect theory? > > To a certain extent, juries (and public opinion) make the law. I remember in the earlier days of Ebay they did claim to be only be the carrier and not to be responsible for content. They fought pretty hard for that position. I'm not sure if there were any legal reasons that they changed it but there were surely public relations reasons. I remember when somebody tried to sell an early version of Mein Kampf on Ebay and it caused all kinds of issues. The news reported that Germany complained to our state deparment because selling that seriously. A lot of Jewish organizations protested what Ebay was doing. It was heavily reported in all the news media and discussed on talk shows. Some companies would think this was good for business but I think I remember that Ebay shut down the sale. They ran into the same thing a couple of years later when the news realized that a LOT of things sold on Ebay were couterfeit copies of copyrighted software. There were a lot of copies of Microsoft Visual Studio sold for $20 when the real price was more like $1800. Ebay responded by disallowing that kind of sale. I'm not sure if Ebay did this because of the bad PR or because they simply thought it was the right thing to do. I'm not sure I think it was the right thing to do. I like the idea of Ebay as a common carrier instead of enforcing censorship. It works for phone companies and trucking companies. But I don't like some of the things that happen when they don't exercise a little control. I wouldn't want to see child porn on network TV. I don't like having it on the internet. I don't like the way the net becomes a tool for hatemongers. I guess we have to decide how much freedom we're willing to give up for decency. There are no easy answers. Barry ==== Is there a way to enter symbolic stuff into a matrix? e^t for example. This is normally a 2x2 matrix that is multiplied by a 2x1. Chris ==== I'm using a 49 G...sorry, forgot to include that. I do also have a 48 G+ if that helps. > > Is there a way to enter symbolic stuff into a matrix? e^t for example. > This is normally a 2x2 matrix that is multiplied by a 2x1. > > Chris > > ==== > I'm using a 49 G...sorry, forgot to include that. I do also have a 48 G+ if > that helps. > > > > > > Is there a way to enter symbolic stuff into a matrix? e^t for example. > > This is normally a 2x2 matrix that is multiplied by a 2x1. > > > > Chris > > > > just open the MatrixWriter and then highlight the cell, in which you want to enter the symbolic expression and press EQW. Write the symbolic expression in the EquationWriter and then press ENTER. The expression is now in the cell. I hope that helps! Alex Markatis, Greece Civil Engineer ==== > > I'm using a 49 G...sorry, forgot to include that. I do also have a 48 G+ if > > that helps. > > > > > > > > > > Is there a way to enter symbolic stuff into a matrix? e^t for example. > > > This is normally a 2x2 matrix that is multiplied by a 2x1. > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > just open the MatrixWriter and then highlight the cell, in > which you want to enter the symbolic expression and press EQW. > Write the symbolic expression in the EquationWriter and > then press ENTER. The expression is now in the cell. > > I hope that helps! > > Alex Markatis, Greece > > Civil Engineer ==== I have not on the 83, but use it all the time on the 89. Very good program! However, if you want the true power of RPN, get an HP calculator. Aaron > I have a hp-49 but I need a caclulator without a CAS. I prefer rpn a > lot, but since there are no rpn scientifics available and the hp-48 is > so slow at graphing, I am going to buy a ti. I found a rpn program > here http://patrick.wattle.id.au/cameron/software/ti83/rpn/ for the > ti-83 > > Has anyone used that rpn program? Is it good? ==== I have just recently purchased a HP49G. When I was researching to see which calculator to buy I also saw the 48GX. Supposedly the best feature on the 48 that the 49 didn't have was an equation library. SO i downloaded a couple of equation libraries for the 49 off of HPcalc.org I sent them to my calc but couldn't figure how to access. I usually go to file manager and hit eval but all that came up was the name of the program and who made it. I want to know how to actually run the program. (This is my first graphing calculator I had a HP scientific calc before.) Anyway thanks in advance for anyones advise. If anyone wants to know, I downloaded Library of Equations 0.1 off of www.hpcalc.org. ==== > i downloaded a couple of equation libraries for the 49 off of > HPcalc.org I sent them to my calc but couldn't figure how to access. Libraries only work when they're in port memory. Move 'em to port memory, then access them through the LIB key. The documentation for each library should have instructions for their use. -Joe- ==== > > i downloaded a couple of equation libraries for the 49 off of > > HPcalc.org I sent them to my calc but couldn't figure how to access. > > Libraries only work when they're in port memory. Move 'em to port memory, > then access them through the LIB key. The documentation for each library > should have instructions for their use. > > -Joe- Thanxs for your advise Joe!!! It worked! ==== I am a middle school Algebra I student so pardon my ignorance. How do u check the rom version of your HP49G? And then how do u upgrade the rom? Finally how do u solve an inequality on your calculator ( a ==== >How do u check the rom version of your HP49G? Just type VERSION. If your version is not 1.19-6 but older then you need to upgrade. >And then how do u upgrade the rom? Check this site: http://etud.epita.fr:8000/~avenar_j/hp/49.html >Finally how do u solve an inequality on your calculator ( a > simple one like -X+2>10)? Open the EQW, write the inequality you want (i.e. -X+2>10), press ENTER in order to put the inequality on the stack and then SOLVEVX. The result is X<-8. Hope this helps! Alex Markatis, Greece Civil Engineer P.S: I hope you are using RPN, aren t you? :-) ==== > I am a middle school Algebra I student so pardon my ignorance. How do > u check the rom version of your HP49G? And then how do u upgrade the > rom? Finally how do u solve an inequality on your calculator ( a You can use the commands VER and VERSION for checking the system software version and the CAS, hicks! The instructions for updating the ROM are at http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/pc/rom/ . There you will also find all For solving inequalities there are two methods. The unusual method is: Jackie Chan: Solve it, or else I'll (dis)solve you. HP49G: Hahahahahahahaaarrgrggh! Jackie Chan: Athaa, hough ha! (Kung fu kicks) HP49G: OK, OK, I solve it. The usual method is to enter '-X+2>10', then enter the variable to solve for, that is 'X' and then press the menu key [SOLVE] (which you reach by pressing [red shift], [7], [F6]. Rumors have that the second method is more reliable, but not enough Greetings, [H,N]ick[s]. ==== > For solving inequalities there are two methods. The unusual method is: > Jackie Chan: Solve it, or else I'll (dis)solve you. > HP49G: Hahahahahahahaaarrgrggh! > Jackie Chan: Athaa, hough ha! (Kung fu kicks) > HP49G: OK, OK, I solve it. I'm afraid this method will no longer work on the new HP/Kinpo calculators: Taiwanese hackers are known to be martial arts masters, and will implement self-defence techniques on their clones. :) BTW, Kinpo is willing to grow: http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi?read=24917 Why not ask for the calcs instead? Or for their designers? HPCC #1046 ==== Could be: o Designing new calcs to specs taken from manuals [$$$] o Calcs already cloned, just need manuals :) [r->] [OFF] . ==== > > > For solving inequalities there are two methods. The unusual method is: > > Jackie Chan: Solve it, or else I'll (dis)solve you. > > HP49G: Hahahahahahahaaarrgrggh! > > Jackie Chan: Athaa, hough ha! (Kung fu kicks) > > HP49G: OK, OK, I solve it. > > I'm afraid this method will no longer work on the new HP/Kinpo calculators: > Taiwanese hackers are known to be martial arts masters, and will implement > self-defence techniques on their clones. :) > > BTW, Kinpo is willing to grow: > > http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi?read=24917 Oh well, looking at their best master calculator, I have to say that the *drunken* master HP49G is able to exchange their lights and oils as we say in greek. (Shoot their pants off!) Kinpo must do much more to reach HP49G levels of perfection in drunken masters martial arts. > Why not ask for the calcs instead? Or for their designers? What should I ask, Jordi? I didn't get that. (Perhaps ask more wine Greetings, Nick. ==== > What should I ask, Jordi? I didn't get that. I included this link: http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi?read=24917 Pinko. Anyway it's a good thing they asked for the *RPN* calcs' manuals. Now, someone should send them Wlodek's guide, the collector's bible: http://www.magpage.com/~jakes/1998/hhc98/saturday/pict0067.jpg HPCC #1046 -- ==== directory. I've tried this on an HP49 and it crashed (it was on emu48, phew ;-)). How can I reach the hidden directory with UserRPL commands in an HP49? miz. ==== > directory. I've tried this on an HP49 and it crashed (it was on emu48, > phew ;-)). NEVER use HP48 SYSEVAL's on the HP49! The huge majority of 'em have moved to new addresses. > How can I reach the hidden directory with UserRPL commands in an HP49? #3714Ah SYSEVAL. The usual caveats and disclaimers apply. -Joe- ==== > How can I reach the hidden directory with UserRPL commands in HP49? Why do you want to bother? What can you do while in that directory? Try typing a program << >> while there, and see what happens. Try 'X=5.' 'X' SOLVE (from the ALG menu) or replace SOLVE by ISOL (from the S.SLV menu); why do we get a Missing Library error? [this didn't happen in HP48] More about the hidden directory, and how it might be used: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8kuiik%24bvg%241%40nnrp1.deja.com Renaming the hidden directory! (can also be done in HP48): http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3AE7AC07.D463B5BB%40miu.edu [r->] [OFF] . ==== > > How can I reach the hidden directory with UserRPL commands in HP49? > Why do you want to bother? What can you do while in that directory? Reply to Mizrandit: As follows from the context, you're not familiar with SysRPL. Hence, I fully agree with JHM's - Wolfgang as is suggested in the 48FAQ by running << #15777h SYSEVAL >> is IMHO a bad style approach. Better on the 49 is the program << #3714A SYSEVAL 2. MENU >>. Here SYSEVAL runs the SysRPL ==== By the way, one problem with the CAS (the need to purge any existing current variable and the inevitable numeric substitution of any defined variables) can sometimes be avoided by performing the CAS command in the hidden directory context (where no user variables at all will appear to exist): For example, as of rom 1.19-6, these will work (SysRPL syntax): But these will produce Missing Library errors: That's why, as my best shot at a general solution for executing CAS commands without affecting either current modes or variables, http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3CB94E4C.AB177E90%40miu.edu So, can the Missing Library problem be avoided, in the envisioned 1.19-7 version? [r->] [OFF] . ==== Somebody here asked: > > > How can I reach the hidden directory with > > > UserRPL commands in HP49? Somebody else here replied: > > Why do you want to bother? What can you do while > > in that directory? You have GOT to be kidding. WHAT can he DO?!?!? He can LEARN, and have FUN doing so, THAT'S what!!! Isn't that was what this newsgroup is about, for crying out loud? Or are we only concerned with Matters of Consequence here? Holy smokes. A third person here replied to the reply: > I fully agree with [the] suggestion of not launching the if thus-and-such non-standard operation were performed with an HP-65. HP that response that he started the HP-65 Users Club, which was the beginning of the organized international HP calculator user community dedicated to the exploration and enjoyment of HP programmable calculators. This newsgroup is an active branch of that user community. How odd it is, therefore, to see the above Don't do that replies HERE to a user's question about non-standard HP calculator usage! We, who used to be young and excited and playful creatures, apparently have grown old and stodgy and grumpy, sitting in our thickly padded easy chairs, frowning at the younger generation frolicking before us, and growling at them, Don't do that. future self when I post here. After all, some day I will probably get too old to remember what learning and playing mean, and at that time I'll consider them as nothing more than dangerous wastes of time. When that day comes, please promise that you'll all ignore me when I say, Don't do that. -Joe- Ever at play in his presence, at play everywhere on his earth, delighting to be with the children of men. -- Proverbs 8:30f ==== I asked: > Why do you want to bother? > What can you do while in that directory? > You have GOT to be kidding. WHAT can he DO?!?!? > He can LEARN, and have FUN, THAT'S what!!! Well, I see how its wording may have sounded discouraging, but I never meant it in this sense; I only intended to say that all *programmed* operations can be done without ever making the hidden directory (which also traps errors and always returns to original context, eliminating the need to save and restore the PATH). It turned out that this programmer did only want to include in his program a means of purging a variable previously saved (by a library) in the hidden directory. But Joe, didn't you have fun following my included links? (have you tried renaming your hidden directory yet, to unhide it?) > Holy smokes. Gee, that stuff must be fun to smoke, although other folks might get incensed :) Sir Greenbaum's Madrigal (to the tune of Greensleeves) http://php.indiana.edu/~jbmorris/LYRICS/sherman.folksinger.html#3 http://mywebpages.comcast.net/allansherman/lpfolksinger.html > Ever at play in his presence, at play everywhere on his earth, > delighting to be with the children of men. -- Proverbs 8:30f At last, a little light in the dark shadows of religion :) The purpose of life is to enjoy... Success in anything is through happiness... http://www.mum.edu . ==== > ... all *programmed* operations > can be done without ever making the hidden directory > (which also traps errors and always returns to original context, > eliminating the need to save and restore the PATH). I'va at leftshift-hold UPDIR the following returning to the original context whithout explicitely saving the path: :: TakeOver EditExstCase UPDIR xHALT RestVarRes ; Thus, I return to the original Dir simply by CONT. The suspended state while being in still to leave it, in case some other menu is launched while staying there. The TakeOver also makes it possible to go UPDIR while programming, which is sometimes very useful. - Wolfgang tradegy because in TopKeys for the 49 which provises an elegant treatment of UPDIR/HOME on the LeftArrow key, and slos the above key assignment. ==== > > Holy smokes. > > Gee, that stuff must be fun to smoke, > although other folks might get incensed :) Ay, there's the rub! Thus conscience does make cowards of us all; And thus the native hue of resolution Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought, And enterprises of great pith and moment With this regard their currents turn awry, And lose the name of action. Ought thou therefore bow to tact and prudence, Or... rather, to thine ownself be true? Methinks the wise decision here is both. May this most blessed season be blessed in thee. > At last, a little light in the dark shadows of religion :) Heh heh! Actually, there are many little lights there, but it seems to me that most clerics make it their life's work to keep those little lights well-hidden under bushel baskets. As it were. -Joe- ==== does exist any program that show this to me??? ==== I have been using once again my HP48SX lately. I used it quite a lot during my scientific studies and I intend to use it again during my MBA. I have therefore a quick question: Does anyone know if there is a collection of the financial and economical functions available on the HP 19BII that can be used on the HP48SX? I have seen the programs on www.hpcalc.org... The only current solution is to use the HP 12 emulator, but not on my HP48SX. Anyone with a solution? Laurent ==== > > where can i get a hp28 rom , i do not have the calculator . > > You can get it on eBay. And you'll get a free calculator with it! JA JA !!! But , realy were can i get it. Gullec ==== > > > where can i get a hp28 rom , i do not have the calculator . > > > > You can get it on eBay. And you'll get a free calculator with it! > > JA JA !!! > > But , realy were can i get it. > > Gullec Guillermo: I believe that Eric is correct--as far as I know, HP hasn't released the 28 ROM to us and so you are supposed to use the ROM from your own calculator--it is considered somewhat bad form to ask other folks if you can have theirs....and, good luck, I think it takes some work to get that dude out of there.... Roger ==== Gerson W Barbosa escribi.97 en el mensaje > Well, back to the 32Sii, it is the best second calculator for those who own a > 48 or 49G. To bad it has been discontinued... > It lacks matrix operations and could have a few more bytes in memory, but I > love it almost the same way I loved the old 15C I had in '84 (It belongs to my > brother now and is still running nicely after all those years...) I'm a 15c lover... but this weekend I've found the last 32sII in a little spanish city for 78 euros. I've played with it for two days now and it's better than I hoped. I like the solver and erasing a program not line by line... As you said, the worst is the lack of matrix ops. and the short (very short) memory. ==== >I'm a 15c lover... but this weekend I've found the last 32sII in a little >spanish city for 78 euros. Congratulations! Thought mine was the last one. The question remains: How many of them are still around? >I've played with it for two days now and it's better than I hoped. I like >the solver and erasing a program not line by line... Navigating through program lines requires the use of shift keys though. If you be careless, you may introduce spurious lines... >As you said, the worst is the lack of matrix ops. and the short (very short) >memory. > In many aspects the 32Sii is far superior than the 15C, like the ones you have noticed plus: alpha labels, base operations (I used to have hex-dec and bin-dec conversion programs in my 15C), fractions (it gives then nicest rational aproximation for pi: 355/113), and many more... Complex operations were better on the 15C... I think they were thinking in a replacement for the 11C when they designed the 32Sii, not for the 15C... But it is the best scientific RPN pocket calculator we can find (being lucky, naturally...) Gerson. ==== >I'm a 15c lover... but this weekend I've found the last 32sII in a little >spanish city for 78 euros. Congratulations! Thought mine was the last one. The question remains: How many of them are still around? >I've played with it for two days now and it's better than I hoped. I like >the solver and erasing a program not line by line... Navigating through program lines requires the use of shift keys though. If you be careless, you may introduce spurious lines... >As you said, the worst is the lack of matrix ops. and the short (very short) >memory. > In many aspects the 32Sii is far superior than the 15C, like the ones you have noticed plus: alpha labels, base operations (I used to have hex-dec and bin-dec conversion programs in my 15C), fractions (it gives then nicest rational aproximation for pi: 355/113), and many more... And you'll be surprised to see that the 32Sii is much faster than the 15C. Don't have any 15C at hand but you could check to see how faster... Complex operations were better on the 15C... I think they were thinking in a replacement for the 11C when they designed the 32Sii, not for the 15C... But it is the best scientific RPN pocket calculator we can find (being lucky, naturally...) Gerson. ==== I am looking for a program for my 48G+ to make it function as a simple programmer's hex calculator, to make calculations a bit more accessible than by using binary integers on the stack. I looked on hpcalc.org, and didn't find anything. Does such a program exist? Or is it a good excuse for me to learn SysRPL or ML? -Mike ==== > I am looking for a program for my 48G+ to make it function as a simple > programmer's hex calculator, to make calculations a bit more accessible > than by using binary integers on the stack. I looked on hpcalc.org, and > didn't find anything. Does such a program exist? Or is it a good > excuse for me to learn SysRPL or ML? I'm not sure about a free one, but if you don't mind spending a few dollars, I highly recommend Jake Schwartz' HP16C Emulator Library for the HP48: http://www.magpage.com/~jakes/mul8r.htm ==== You could also use vectored ENTER (see FAQ at www.hpcalc.org) Caspar Mike Dean schreef in bericht > I am looking for a program for my 48G+ to make it function as a simple > programmer's hex calculator, to make calculations a bit more accessible > than by using binary integers on the stack. I looked on hpcalc.org, and > didn't find anything. Does such a program exist? Or is it a good > excuse for me to learn SysRPL or ML? > > -Mike ==== > I am looking for a program for my 48G+ to make it function as a simple > programmer's hex calculator, to make calculations a bit more accessible > than by using binary integers on the stack. I looked on hpcalc.org, and > didn't find anything. Does such a program exist? Or is it a good > excuse for me to learn SysRPL or ML? Can you give an example of what you would input and what you expect returned? ==== >> I am looking for a program for my 48G+ to make it function as a simple >> programmer's hex calculator, to make calculations a bit more accessible >> than by using binary integers on the stack. I looked on hpcalc.org, and >> didn't find anything. Does such a program exist? Or is it a good >> excuse for me to learn SysRPL or ML? > Can you give an example of what you would input and what you expect > returned? Basically, just something to allow me to quickly enter numbers in hex and manipulate them, i.e. A49B2 B3 + should yield A4A85 Basically, I don't want to have to deal with entering #...h all the time. Also, bit-shift would be nice, and maybe some convience things for dealing with memory addresses, etc. (e.g., to make 'address of the i'th element of the vector of 4-byte elements starting at an address' simple). -Mike ==== > I am looking for a program for my 48G+ to make it function > as a simple programmer's hex calculator Try an HP16C simulator: http://www.hpcalc.org/search.php?query=16c&hp48=1 Klaatu the band? Klaatu the software? Or this: The Day the Earth Stood Still: http://www.belogical.com/klattu_barada_nikto.htm http://www.dreamerwww.com/tdtess.htm http://www.dreamerwww.com/tdtess/wise.htm http://www.dreamerwww.com/tdtess/screen.htm No relation to the original story: http://www.dreamerwww.com/master/master.htm Film music by Bernard Herrmann (Citizen Kane, Psycho, Vertigo, North by Northwest, Taxi Driver) . ==== >Basically, I don't want to have to deal with entering #...h all the >time. Also, bit-shift would be nice ... Isn't that what SR/SL/RL/RR do? Or do you have something else in mind? -- john R. Latala jrlatala@golden.net ==== > Klaatu the band? Klaatu the software? Did they also make software besides exceptional music? What is Klaatu the software? Greetings, Nick. ==== > What is Klaatu the software? klaatusoftware.com SETI Agent will allow you to calculate the possibility of hearing radio transmissions from other worlds. Contact! . ==== >>Basically, I don't want to have to deal with entering #...h all the >>time. Also, bit-shift would be nice ... > Isn't that what SR/SL/RL/RR do? Or do you have something else in mind? Those do exactly it... It looks like all I'd really need to do to accomplish my objective then, would be to set up a user keymap with these functions readily accessible, and maybe write a thin wrapper so I don't have to deal with the # all the time. Is there a way to switch between multiple user keymaps? Does it work to replace UserKeys and UserKeys.CRC in the hidden directory? Mike ==== > Basically, I don't want to have to deal with entering #...h all the > time. You can omit the h if you're in HEX mode. > Also, bit-shift would be nice Built-in. ==== > You could also use vectored ENTER (see FAQ at www.hpcalc.org) > > Caspar > > these functions readily accessible, and maybe write a thin wrapper so I > don't have to deal with the # all the time. Exactly. Your wrapper should be << # SWAP + OBJ-> >> saved in the variable alphaENTER. (alpha is the letter, not the word; namely, right shift, A). Then set flag -63 to get the vectored-enter mode referred to by Caspar. referenced above.) Karl. ==== >> You could also use vectored ENTER (see FAQ at www.hpcalc.org) >> >> Caspar >> >> these functions readily accessible, and maybe write a thin wrapper so I >> don't have to deal with the # all the time. > Exactly. Your wrapper should be > << # SWAP + OBJ-> >> > saved in the variable alphaENTER. (alpha is the letter, not the word; > namely, right shift, A). > Then set flag -63 to get the vectored-enter mode referred to by > Caspar. like I'm pretty much set. At every turn, the flexibility of this calculator continues to amaze me... maybe I should just learn to expect it :-). -Mike ==== > About operational limit.. In my firm we are using 48GX with TDS for > about 5 years. Working temperatures from -10 to +40C. Never had a > problem.. > Zvonko Juras This does not necessarily mean that all HP48Gs will behave similarly when operated beyond the manufacturer's limits! The environmental specs address both the IC technology and packaging and PCB assembly. Some will fail and some will continue to function perhaps marginally. You are on your own in that case ;-) !Demeter! ==== > > First post. I've been having problems with the 48GX while connected > to a Sokia total station and running TDS program. What happens is > while shooting a point, the 48GX bails out of the TDS program, back to > the calculator functions. I've had this setup for almost two years, > and haven't had a problem like this before. One thing I noticed on > page A-4 in the users manual was the calculator environmental limits. > We were working at around 30 degrees F and the operating temperature > for the 48GX is 32-113 degrees F. My question is, has anyone else had > this problem, and what fixes if any were tried and/or worked? > > Hal I suspect that if you tested the battery voltage with the calc cold-soaked at freezing, the batteries would be *very* low. Nikon used to and probably still does make remote battery boxes for some of the more professional accessories, so that you can keep the batteries in an inside pocket and still run the camera motor drive etc. Sounds like that is what you need to do. You would want to cobble together an adapter to fit into the battery case, and a remote battery holder. Radio Shack among others sells Ni-Cad battery recharger trays in a 3-AAA size, which would do the job. Geoff ==== share with the HP49 user's. What must I do? ==== > which I'd like to share with the HP49 user's. > What must I do? Only give the HP49 users the source code listing for your program. They can use the tools built into the HP49 to recompile/reassemble your program into HP49 binary form. The HP48 binary form of your program will be of no use to HP49 users, unfortunately. -Joe- www.holyjoe.org ==== > > which I'd like to share with the HP49 user's. > > What must I do? > > Only give the HP49 users the source code listing for your program. They can > use the tools built into the HP49 to recompile/reassemble your program into > HP49 binary form. > > The HP48 binary form of your program will be of no use to HP49 users, > unfortunately. > > -Joe- > www.holyjoe.org Ok thanks, but will the same exact code work in the HP49? ==== > > > which I'd like to share with the HP49 user's. > > > What must I do? > > > > Only give the HP49 users the source code listing for your program. They can > > use the tools built into the HP49 to recompile/reassemble your program into > > HP49 binary form. > > > > The HP48 binary form of your program will be of no use to HP49 users, > > unfortunately. > > > > -Joe- > > www.holyjoe.org > > Ok thanks, but will the same exact code work in the HP49? Answering myself: no it doesn't work. I'm using DEFINE z LAM z at the beginning of the program (as it was suggested in RPLMAN.DOC) for making the use of local vars easier/more clear. That seems to be causing errors. Is there any HP49 equivalent to that or must each z in the file be changed? miz. ==== > I'm using DEFINE z LAM z at the beginning of the program (as it was > suggested in RPLMAN.DOC) for making the use of local vars easier/more > clear. That seems to be causing errors. Is there any HP49 equivalent > to that or must each z in the file be changed? It *does* work. Please try again. Example, with flag -92 set (MASD System RPL mode): DEFINE z LAM z :: z ; @ ASM --> :: LAM z ; Was the @ missing as the last line in your 49G source code? The 49G requires it, for some bizarre reason. -Joe- ==== > Ok thanks, but will the same exact code work in the HP49? Yes, if: (a) only named and supported HP49G commands are used; (b) the last line of the source code is an @ by itself; and (c) if flag -92 is clear, you must add two extra first lines: !NO CODE !RPL If there are any other differences, somebody will append them to this thread. -Joe- ==== > > > I'm using DEFINE z LAM z at the beginning of the program (as it was > > suggested in RPLMAN.DOC) for making the use of local vars easier/more > > clear. That seems to be causing errors. Is there any HP49 equivalent > > to that or must each z in the file be changed? > > It *does* work. Please try again. > > Example, with flag -92 set (MASD System RPL mode): > > DEFINE z LAM z > :: > z > ; > @ > > ASM --> :: LAM z ; > > Was the @ missing as the last line in your 49G source code? The 49G > requires it, for some bizarre reason. > > -Joe- I did put the @, but what is the ASM--> :: LAM z ; part? Should I have included that? One more thing, when I created the library for the HP48 I put three vars in $VISIBLE. Those were the vars that you saw when you entered the library menu but the rest of the programs could still be evaluated. In the HP49 it seems as if the only vars you can evaluate are the ones included in $VISIBLE. Should I include all the subroutines in $VISIBLE? Is that a feature I don't understand or what am I getting wrong? Oh! thanks a lot for your help. The hidden directory thing is already working but I noticed a difference there, in the HP48, after doing the SYSEVAL I had to EVAL, in the HP49 no (what's more, EVAL produces an error and stops the rest of the program because there is nothing to evaluate!) but that was easy to fix. ==== > > ASM --> :: LAM z ; > > I did put the @, but what is the ASM--> :: LAM z ; > part? Should I have included that? That's shorthand for: Execute the ASM command, and the result will be :: LAM z ; Example: 1 2 + --> 3 means ... well, I'm sure you can figure that one out. ;-) > One more thing, when I created the library for the HP48 I put three > vars in $VISIBLE. Those were the vars that you saw when you entered > the library menu but the rest of the programs could still be > evaluated. In the HP49 it seems as if the only vars you can evaluate > are the ones included in $VISIBLE. Should I include all the > subroutines in $VISIBLE? Is that a feature I don't understand or > what am I getting wrong? The program names included in $VISIBLE become the *named* commands in the library. The rest of the programs get their names *removed*, and are accessed only by XLIBs. Isn't there a $HIDDEN or something like that, which allows you to have named commands whose names are not displayed in the library's menu? I haven't used CRLIB in eons, but others here are experts and I'm sure that they will give you either the details or a pointer to them. -Joe- ==== [..] > It *does* work. Please try again. > > Example, with flag -92 set (MASD System RPL mode): > > DEFINE z LAM z > :: > z > ; > @ > > ASM --> :: LAM z ; Are you sure? I typed in the beast exactly as you posted, but my HP49G, ROM 1.18 says Error: Invalid File. Typing ER yields Bad Expression right before LAM z. I'm in the process of writing a SysRPL program of some thousand lines, and I would really like this macro mechanism, using standard MASD on my HP. Is that a bug in the latest HP-supported ROM? Do I really have to update to 1.19-6? (... disregarding the devise never change a running system ...) Markus ==== the 49 is not listed on their web page any longer. The 48gx have not been discontinued. The 49g are no longer available. If you need further assistance, please reply to this message with any additional details. You may also register your product, find software updates and drivers, and find technical and troubleshooting information on our HP Customer Care Web site at the following locations. HP Online Registration: http://www.hp.com/support/register HP Software and Drivers: http://www.hp.com/support/software HP Customer Care: http://www.hp.com/support/personal_computing Sincerely, Alex HP Customer Solutions support agent ==== The 48gx have not been discontinued. The 49g are no longer available. If you need further assistance, please reply to this message with any additional details. You may also register your product, find software updates and drivers, and find technical and troubleshooting information on our HP Customer Care Web site at the following locations. HP Online Registration: http://www.hp.com/support/register HP Software and Drivers: http://www.hp.com/support/software HP Customer Care: http://www.hp.com/support/personal_computing Sincerely, Alex HP Customer Solutions support agent ==== What do you mean, The 49g are no longer available? You don't have any, it's discontinued, it's replaced? What? > > > The 48gx have not been discontinued. The 49g are no longer available. > > If you need further assistance, please reply to this message with > any additional details. You may also register your product, find > software updates and drivers, and find technical and troubleshooting > information on our HP Customer Care Web site at the following > locations. > > HP Online Registration: http://www.hp.com/support/register > HP Software and Drivers: http://www.hp.com/support/software > HP Customer Care: http://www.hp.com/support/personal_computing > > Sincerely, > Alex > HP Customer Solutions support agent > > ==== Nope! The link to the 49G is beside the HP 48GX once you first go to look at the HP 48GX > What do you mean, The 49g are no longer available? You don't have any, > it's discontinued, it's replaced? What? ==== I guess HP made the leap to stupid. The new HP 9g/s is supposed to make up for it? LOL! It's crap compared to the 48 series. I sure hope corporate at HP gets a clue....sounds the compaq took over. On Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:43:29 -0500, Thierry Morissette >What do you mean, The 49g are no longer available? You don't have any, >it's discontinued, it's replaced? What? > >> >> >> The 48gx have not been discontinued. The 49g are no longer available. >> >> If you need further assistance, please reply to this message with >> any additional details. You may also register your product, find >> software updates and drivers, and find technical and troubleshooting >> information on our HP Customer Care Web site at the following >> locations. >> >> HP Online Registration: http://www.hp.com/support/register >> HP Software and Drivers: http://www.hp.com/support/software >> HP Customer Care: http://www.hp.com/support/personal_computing >> >> Sincerely, >> Alex >> HP Customer Solutions support agent >> >> > ==== I was given a 49G that powers up with the message No System. It sounded easy to fix so I downloaded the V3.0 HPGC and the 49 v118 flash image. I got out my trusty HP comm cable for my 48, popped of the adapter and plugged into the 49G to load the system. As soon as I plug the cable into my PC, the 49 goes dead. I can't get it to talk. I then borrowed a co-workers 49G that works, just to see if it was my cable. The good 49G goes dead too. The cable is from the my HP82208B 48 to PC kit. It works fine on my 48. I though it would work 49 since the connector is the same. Can anyone enlighten me? Thx ==== > I got out my trusty HP comm cable for my 48, popped off the adapter > and plugged into the 49G to load the system. > As soon as I plug the cable into my PC, the 49 goes dead. > The cable is from the my HP82208B 48 to PC kit. > I thought it would work 49 since the connector is [almost] the same. > I then borrowed a co-worker's 49G that works[ed?], just to see > if it was my cable. The good 49G goes dead too. So now you know -- it *was* your cable! (are you going to replace your co-worker's 49G?) It also was some unsafe engineering practice on HP's part, though: http://home.jps.net/~joehorn/cable.htm . ==== Okay, so now I know. The cable is wrong. I made the 9 pin to 9 pin adapter and tried it again. No joy. So the question is: Is it only the comms that I fry on the 49G? It seems to work otherwise. Man, the IQ (idiot quotient) at HP has reached new levels. Why don't we just put 220v plugs on our 110v corded appliances so that when we go to Europe we can just plug them into 220v. Hey the plug fits, right? But seriously, is it just the comms that takes the hit? Thx ==== > Okay, so now I know. The cable is wrong. I made the 9 pin to 9 pin adapter > and tried it again. No joy. So the question is: Is it only the comms that I > fry on the 49G? It seems to work otherwise. The cable you're using is incorrect. The connection port on the HP49G is made of 10 pins (vs 4 pins on the HP48). For of these pins are used for serial communication, the rest is the video bus output. If you wrongly connect something to these pins, the screen will go off. I suggest that you read www.hpcalc.org and do a search on cables.. ==== Dave Arnett (HP engineer), on choosing the right connector: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=51rq7a%24cu9%40hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com I am not going to put on a spigot that says: I look like a standard something-else, but if you were smart enough to memorize the entire manual you'd know I'll cause damage if you connect me to that something-else and the joke's on you! But that's in fact what happened, on the HP38G through HP49G (hopefully none decided by Dave), which re-used the HP Palmtop connector, almost exactly. More recently produced HP multi-use cables have fixed the problem, by having the HP48 4-pin connector molded directly onto the cable end, then supplying a slip-on 10-pin adapter in which only the four serial pins are electrically connected to anything. Your cable had the 10-pin part directly molded on, with all 10 pins connected, plus an HP48 slip-on adapter in which only the four serial pins come out at the final end, so this works with all HP48 and with HP palmtops, but with *no* 10-pin calculators. Dave also comments why no AC power adapter (and read about the MIDI interface on the OmniBook!) http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3500392B.6C72%40hp.com We'd love to pretend we're technology-driven and blind to market issues. Heck, we'd love to give away calculators for free, just for the simple joy of making life better for nerds everywhere. In the end, we have tended to straddle that fence, meaning some fun-but- unprofitable ideas never make it into production. Others do. Those that hit the market in HP usually have to pay their own way. . ==== > Oddly enough, there's a link to the hp49 page on the > hp48 one. I think the main problem here may be that > HP's web-page authors are incompetent, as usual. IMHO, he's a highly skilled, friendly guy, who has always worked closely with us wild & crazy enthusiasts. The problem is that he's overloaded. Expecting one engineer to handle the entire HP website is ludicrous. My experience has been that the HP engineers are top notch, whereas management and marketing are some other notch. -Joe- ==== > > > Oddly enough, there's a link to the hp49 page on the > > hp48 one. I think the main problem here may be that > > HP's web-page authors are incompetent, as usual. > > IMHO, he's a highly skilled, friendly guy, who has always worked closely > with us wild & crazy enthusiasts. The problem is that he's overloaded. > Expecting one engineer to handle the entire HP website is ludicrous. My > experience has been that the HP engineers are top notch, whereas management > and marketing are some other notch. > Can anyone confirm that the HP49 is discontunied? If so, I might but a spare. I take it they don't want to sell a product with oper firmware (dunno why, they make money from hardwarwe) ==== The 48gx have not been discontinued. The 49g are no longer available. If you need further assistance, please reply to this message with any additional details. You may also register your product, find software updates and drivers, and find technical and troubleshooting information on our HP Customer Care Web site at the following locations. HP Online Registration: http://www.hp.com/support/register HP Software and Drivers: http://www.hp.com/support/software HP Customer Care: http://www.hp.com/support/personal_computing Sincerely, Alex HP Customer Solutions support agent On 5 Dec 2002 15:32:46 -0800, a.borowski@student.qut.edu.au (Al >> >> > Oddly enough, there's a link to the hp49 page on the >> > hp48 one. I think the main problem here may be that >> > HP's web-page authors are incompetent, as usual. >> >> IMHO, he's a highly skilled, friendly guy, who has always worked closely >> with us wild & crazy enthusiasts. The problem is that he's overloaded. >> Expecting one engineer to handle the entire HP website is ludicrous. My >> experience has been that the HP engineers are top notch, whereas management >> and marketing are some other notch. >> > >Can anyone confirm that the HP49 is discontunied? > >If so, I might but a spare. I take it they don't want to sell a >product with oper firmware (dunno why, they make money from hardwarwe) ==== Seen: > degrees, radians, and gradients! Very common usage, e.g. from competitor TI (but who started it?) http://www.google.com/search?q=degrees+radians+gradients Dictionary definitions: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gradient http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Gradient.html http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Gradian.html Four different operations ( + - * / ) is very impressive; there once was, however, a humorous ad campaign for a brand of gasoline, in which cartoon figures said things like: With Chevron Supreme gasoline, you can back up, as well as go forwards! As long as you mention the brand name and sound funny, it hardly matters what else you say: http://www.tvacres.com/admascots_pielsbrothers.htm http://www.nydailynews.com/city_life/big_town/v-pfriendly/story/17795p-16869 c.html Free calculator, with RPN, finance, periodic element table, etc.: http://www.calculator.org Here's a mode that even HP never thought of: http://www.calculator.org/MediaKitImages/ScreenShot_Roman.jpg [r->] [OFF] . ==== > IMHO, he's a highly skilled, friendly guy, who has always worked closely > with us wild & crazy enthusiasts. The problem is that he's overloaded. > Expecting one engineer to handle the entire HP website is ludicrous. My > experience has been that the HP engineers are top notch, whereas management > and marketing are some other notch. And IMO (forget the H), the guy designing the HP web site has nothing to do with HP employee anymore (all contracted) Long time is gone since Cary used to manage the HP calculator web site (if he's the person you're referring to) So what's left of your arguments Joe ? :) ==== Any Bob & Ray fans out there? If you let a pack of dogs loose in a museum, they'll probably tamper with the fossils. http://archaeology.miningco.com/blquote182.htm http://hometown.aol.com/graemecree/sketches/widen1.htm http://hometown.aol.com/graemecree/sketches/widen2.htm http://www.bobandray.com http://www.old%2Dtime.com/sponsors/bobandray.html Write if you get work... . ==== Maybe then we should use the least common name (LCN :) gon (gooni in Finnish) > Seen: > > > degrees, radians, and gradients! > > Very common usage, e.g. from competitor TI (but who started it?) > http://www.google.com/search?q=degrees+radians+gradients > > Dictionary definitions: > http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gradient > http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Gradient.html > http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Gradian.html X ==== > Long time is gone since Cary used to manage the > HP calculator web site (if he's the person you're referring > to) Rats. Yes, I was. Didn't know that Cary M. was gone. > So what's left of your arguments Joe ? :) Smoke & mirrors. ;-) -Joe- -Holy Smoke Incense Company- ==== > Seen: > > > degrees, radians, and gradients! > > Very common usage, e.g. from competitor TI (but who started it?) > http://www.google.com/search?q=degrees+radians+gradients Interesting. Even NIST used it. -- Bhuvanesh ==== > > > The 48gx have not been discontinued. The 49g are no longer available. > > If you need further assistance, please reply to this message with > any additional details. You may also register your product, find > software updates and drivers, and find technical and troubleshooting > information on our HP Customer Care Web site at the following > locations. > > HP Online Registration: http://www.hp.com/support/register > HP Software and Drivers: http://www.hp.com/support/software > HP Customer Care: http://www.hp.com/support/personal_computing > > Sincerely, > Alex > HP Customer Solutions support agent > > On 5 Dec 2002 15:32:46 -0800, a.borowski@student.qut.edu.au (Al > >>5662$hM3.635276@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>... >>> >>> > Oddly enough, there's a link to the hp49 page on the >>> > hp48 one. I think the main problem here may be that >>> > HP's web-page authors are incompetent, as usual. >>> >>> IMHO, he's a highly skilled, friendly guy, who has always worked >>> closely with us wild & crazy enthusiasts. The problem is that he's >>> overloaded. Expecting one engineer to handle the entire HP website >>> is ludicrous. My experience has been that the HP engineers are top >>> notch, whereas management and marketing are some other notch. >> >>Can anyone confirm that the HP49 is discontunied? >> >>If so, I might but a spare. I take it they don't want to sell a >>product with oper firmware (dunno why, they make money from hardwarwe) > > It seems that the 49g is back on display and in stock, according to HPs web shop. But the customer care guy maybe right, too. HP probably stopped making them years ago, and since people keep getting new ID9... calculators from 1999 all the time, stocks are probably high... Ingmar ==== > Rats. Yes, I was. Didn't know that Cary M. was gone. I think Cary is still at hp.. he just works on something else. > -Joe- -Holy Smoke Incense Company- When you go public, can I buy some shares.. This kind of smoke *must* have some weird side effects and still be legal :) ==== WR quoted from: > G. H. Hardy, A mathematicians apology And from the same work: A mathematician, like a painter or a poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas. The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's, must be beautiful; the ideas, like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test. So I would say that there was certainly more to this than was expressed in the other quotation selected by WR; we are all looking for harmony and beauty, and finding it often comes without planning, and often is defeated by the very act of trying to find it. In the screenplay for Chariots of Fire, runner Eric Liddell, a Scottish missionary who refused to run a 1924 Olympic race on the Sabbath for religious reasons, says that when he runs, he can feel the Lord's presence: http://movie-reviews.colossus.net/movies/c/chariots.html Success in anything is through happiness. But yield who will to their separation, My object in living is to unite My avocation and my vocation As my two eyes make one in sight. Only where love and need are one, And the work is play for mortal stakes, Is the deed ever really done For Heaven and the future's sakes. [Robert Frost] http://www.ivory.org/twotramps.html . ==== Does anyone know where I can get a tutorial to help me learn my HP 49g? I've used an HP 48g for the last few years, but the keyboard layout and menus are somewhat different on the 49, so a crash course would be nice. ==== I'm don't know you name !. Seek in http://ca-on.hpcalc.org the next program : HP49G Advanced User's Guide 1.3 Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK **************************************************************************** *** > Does anyone know where I can get a tutorial to help me learn my HP 49g? > > I've used an HP 48g for the last few years, but the keyboard layout and > menus are somewhat different on the 49, so a crash course would be nice. > ==== When my calculator is off for 1 minute or more, It reboots when I turn press the on key. This destroys the information on the stack. Sometimes I have to press the on key twice to get it to come up. Has anybody else seen nice day. ==== Have you downloaded any libraries? A corrupt library may be the problem. Boot with backspace key held down. OR Your hardware is faulty, ask for replacement. > When my calculator is off for 1 minute or more, It reboots when I turn > press the on key. This destroys the information on the stack. Sometimes I > have to press the on key twice to get it to come up. Has anybody else seen > nice day. > > > ==== Sounds like you have A new Chinese calc with the power supply capacistor problem. I've seen several of these. Check: http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=asll q4%24bfj%241%40strauss.udel.edu&prev=/groups%3Fdq%3D%26num%3D25%26hl%3Den%26l r%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26group%3Dcomp.sys.hp48%26start%3D25 Luis > When my calculator is off for 1 minute or more, It reboots when I turn > press the on key. This destroys the information on the stack. Sometimes I > have to press the on key twice to get it to come up. Has anybody else seen > nice day. ==== Does anyone have a manual of the hp-71b in PDF version I can download hp-71b, not anything else, and I don't want to pay $18.00 for a cd I don't need. Any help would be appreciated. I will also pay for the pdf if needed. ==== > By the way, any news on the HP9G/S? Or should I say hp9g/s? Does anyone > know of a site where they can already be ordered? They will arrive to Spain soon, maybe, but not sure, next week. European provider had problems with hp49 (there weren`t hp49 during November because they sold more than expected and one plastic company break down during this year, so they couldn't be manufactured). A great 'pack' of calculators will arrive to Spain next week, so maybe, there were some hp9 there. If you could take a casio fx-6300g (note that 6+3=9, so fx6300g->hp9g), you could play a little with a hp9g. Of course, since Citizen is using same Chineese hardware manufacturer than HP, they look the same. After a little review (hope included in next Datafile), I like the machines, but (there is allways a horrible 'but') they aren't what most of you are waiting for. But 2003 could be a great year.... J.Manrique http://www.asturlinux.org/~jsmanrique Users Club form Gij.97n http://www.etsiig.uniovi.es/asociaciones/clubusu #1077 HPCC Member http://www.hpcc.org ==== > If you could take a casio fx-6300g (note that 6+3=9, so > fx6300g->hp9g), you could play a little with a hp9g. Today I've seen a Lexibook GC1000, which is near identical to that casio. It's going to be a great year in Taiwan... Or are they made in the People's Republic? Since they don't respect human rights, how can we expect them to respect our wishes for calcs? ... HPCC #1046 -- ==== > If you could take a casio fx-6300g (note that 6+3=9, so > fx6300g->hp9g), you could play a little with a hp9g. > Today I've seen a Lexibook GC1000, which is near identical to that > casio. It's going to be a great year in Taiwan... Or are they made > in the People's Republic? Ah, so; I missed this news item [by RH] from last August: http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv008.cgi?read=21191 [r->] [OFF] . ==== Have you ever wondered where Reverse Polish Notation or RPN came from? Who thought of it? Why use it? Is there other ways of computing arithmatic expressions besides Algebraic and RPN? You bet! But first, we must build a foundation for coming up with these different ways of evaluating expressions. All these forms of notation are based off of binary trees which we will discuss here. We can represent complicated expressions, such as compound propositions, combinations of sets, and arithmetic expressions involving the operators + (addition), - (subtraction), * (multiplication), / (division), and ^ (exponentiation). We will use parenteses to indicate the order of the oerations. An ordered rooted tree can be used to represent the variables or numbers. Each operation operates on its left and right subtrees (in that order). An inorder traversal of the binary tree representing an expression produces the original expression with the elements and operations in the same order as they originally occurred, except for unary operations, which instead immediately follow their operands. For instance, inorder traversals of a binary tree which represent the expressions (x + y)/(x + 3), (x + (y / x)) + 3, and x+ (y / (x + 3)), all lead to the infix expression x + y / x + 3. To make such expressions unambiguous it is necessary to include parentheses in the inorder traversal whenever we encounter an operation. The fully parenthesized expression obtained in this way is said to be in infix form. This form is the most poopular form found in Texas Instrument calculators, Casio calculators, and 99.99% of the calculators produced in the world today. Of course this is the form also used in text books to describe various expressions. We obtain the prefix form of an expression when we traverse its rooted tree in preorder. Expressions written in prefix form are said to be in Polish Notation, which is named after the logician Jan Lukasiewicz (who was actually Ukrainian and not Polish). An expression in prefix notation (where each operation has a specified number of operands), is unambiguous, so no parentheses are needed in such an expression. For example, what is the prefix form for (( x + y) ^ 2) + ((x - 4) / 3)? We obtain the prefix form for this expression by traversing the binary tree that represents it, shown below (sorry for not representing it very well): (+) / (^) ( /) / / (+) (2) (-) (3) / / (x) (y) (x) (4) In the prefix form of an expression, a binary operator, such as +, precedes its two operands. Hence, we can evaluate an expresssion in prefix form by working from right to left. When we encounter an operator, we perform the corresponding operation with the two operands immediately to the right of this operand. Also, whenever an operation is performed, we consider the result a new operand. The most common hardware found to use this form of evaluating expressions would be found in the LISP programming language. So what would be the value of the prefix expression + - * 2 3 5 / ^ 2 3 4? The steps used to evaluate this expression by working reight to left, and performing operations using the operands on the right are shown below: + - * 2 3 5 / ^ 2 3 4 + - * 2 3 5 / 8 4 (2^3 = 8) + - * 2 3 5 2 (8/4 = 2) + - 6 5 2 (2*3 = 6) + 1 2 (1+2 = 3) So the value of the expression is 3. We obtain the postfix form of an expression by traversing its binary tree in postorder. Expressions written in postfix from are said to be in Reverse Polish Notation. Expression in RPN are unambiguous, so parenteses are not needed. Obviously, RPN is found in Hewlett-Packard calculators, and also found to be the most convenient number crunching tool. So what is the postfix form of the expression ((x + y) ^ 2) + ((x - 4) / 3)? The postfix form of the expression is obtained by carrying out a postorder traversal of the binary tree for this expression. This produces the postfix expression x y + 2 ^ x 4 - 3 / +. In the postfix form of an expression, a binary operator follows its two operands. So, to evaluate an expression from its postfix form, work from left to right, carrying out operations whenever an operator follows two operands. After an operation is carried out, the result of this operation becomes a new operand. What is the balue of the postfix expression 7 2 3 * - 4 ^ 9 3 / +? The solution is found by starting art the left and carrying out operations when two operands are followed by an operator. 7 2 3 * - 4 ^ 9 3 / + 7 6 - 4 ^ 9 3 / + (2*3 = 6) 1 4 ^ 9 3 / + (7-6 = 1) 1 9 3 / + (1^4 = 1) 1 3 + (9/3 = 3) The value of this expression is 4. Now the question remains: should HP ever produce a calculator that uses prefix notation? Aaron ==== > should HP ever produce a calculator that uses prefix notation? Notwithstanding that SysRPL has assorted prefix commands, which self-quote what follows, there is still the same fundamental problem as with algebraic calculators, which is that the cart comes before the horse, In other words, if you finish one problem, and then you decide that you want to re-use its result for another calculation, you'll need H. G. Wells' time machine to do it! RPN permits you to see *all* intermediate results during manual entry; Algebraic calcs permit you to see *some* intermediate results; now, how many intermediate results would you see with prefix ops? Putting the cart before the horse: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=59dcb4%2499t%40news.iastate.edu Last week's Car Talk Puzzler seems related: http://cartalk.cars.com/Radio/Puzzler/Transcripts/200248/index.html I can put my car on this road and point it north, and drive for a mile and when I'm done, I'm a mile south of where I started. The Upper-world people might once have been the favoured aristocracy, and the Morlocks their mechanical servants, but that had long since passed away... Man had been content to live in ease and delight upon the labours of his fellow-man, had taken Necessity as his watchword and excuse, and in the fullness of time Necessity had come home to him. [H. G. Wells, The Time Machine] http://www.bartleby.com/1000 (the complete book) . ==== You are preaching to the converted :-) ==== Having such a huge number in the queue the best its author could do is to resign and to cancel his message from this NG. It's an paradigma of a long text with zero content, he should better try to become a politician :-) He has seemingly not read my post in the thread RPN versus Algebraic a week ago on the history of RPN and its role in mathematics and programming. I did not discuss such an irrelevant question as to whether Lukasiewicz was Polish or Ukrain (which in any case is hard to decide). But there are nevertheless some topics which I didn't touch. Why not? The reason is not only its bracket-free condensed information but, IMHO, the fact that unique readability is by far not as obvious as in the algebraic case. It may sound surprising that a rigorous proof of the unique readability theorem for RPN is even easier obtained as for the classic algebraic notation, though it is by no means trivial. This it shown by induction on the lenght of a RPN-term which is based on the following lemma: No proper end segment of a well-formed RPN term is itself a well-formed RPN-term. This in turn is verified by induction, starting from a recursive definition of the set of well-formed RPN-terms. - Wolfgang ==== > > > should HP ever produce a calculator that uses prefix notation? > > Notwithstanding that SysRPL has assorted prefix commands, I was not aware of this as I am not a SysRPL programmer. I should've specified: Should HP produce a calculator that uses prefix notation as it's basic manual entry, versus postfix and infix? I am not aware of one HP calc that does this. > which self-quote what follows, there is still the same > fundamental problem as with algebraic calculators, > which is that the cart comes before the horse, A simple left to right entry in to the calc. > > In other words, if you finish one problem, > and then you decide that you want to re-use its result > for another calculation, > you'll need H. G. Wells' time machine to do it! :) > > RPN permits you to see *all* intermediate results during manual entry; > Algebraic calcs permit you to see *some* intermediate results; > now, how many intermediate results would you see with prefix ops? *all* results are seen. Remember, Polish Notation is reverse of Reverse Polish Notation. > > Putting the cart before the horse: > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=59dcb4%2499t%40news.iastate.edu > > > > The Upper-world people might once have been the favoured > aristocracy, and the Morlocks their mechanical servants, > but that had long since passed away... > Man had been content to live in ease and delight upon > the labours of his fellow-man, had taken Necessity as his > watchword and excuse, and in the fullness of time > Necessity had come home to him. [H. G. Wells, The Time Machine] > http://www.bartleby.com/1000 (the complete book) Great book! I have it and have read it several times. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > ==== the variuos notation representations. > > You are preaching to the converted :-) Do you have an HP prefix calc, or do you program in LISP? :o) Ah, then even the converted (postfix users) could experience something new. ==== > > Having such a huge number in the queue the best > its author could do is to resign and to cancel > his message from this NG. Why? > It's an paradigma of > a long text with zero content, he should better > try to become a politician :-) I thought it might be interesting to understand the various notation methods used as a study of mathematics (seeing as though we are mathematicians) *without* the bias toward any one method. > He has seemingly not read my post in the thread > RPN versus Algebraic a week ago on the history > of RPN and its role in mathematics and programming. I have. How does reading my post lead you to the conclusion that I have not read your post? Which form of mathematical induction did you use? > I did not discuss such an irrelevant question as to > whether Lukasiewicz was Polish or Ukrain (which > in any case is hard to decide). Again, just another interesting sidenote. Jan Lukasiewicz was born in Lwow in 1878 where he studied at the University of Lwow. He later moved to describing three-valued logic which was an important contribution to this subject. Noevertheless, he his best known for the parenthises-free notation known as Plosih notation. I find this very interesting, and see it unfortunate that others don't. This is mathematical history, and the foundation upon RPN of which our beloved calculators use. > But there are > nevertheless some topics which I didn't touch. Thus, that is why Lukasiewicz is brought up here. I assume you are talking to Al here, howeverI agree. My wife hates it, even after all the lessons I have taught to her on it. > Why not? The reason is not only its bracket-free > condensed information but, IMHO, the fact that > unique readability is by far not as obvious as in > the algebraic case. Readability is the biggest problem with newcomers to RPN and prefix notation. > It may sound surprising that a rigorous proof of the > unique readability theorem for RPN is even easier > obtained as for the classic algebraic notation, > though it is by no means trivial. This it shown by > induction on the lenght of a RPN-term which is > based on the following lemma: No proper end segment > of a well-formed RPN term is itself a well-formed > RPN-term. This in turn is verified by induction, > starting from a recursive definition of the > set of well-formed RPN-terms. but it makes sense. I appreciate this information, an I am sure others do too. Now the conjecture to prove the lemma: Is there an end segment of a well-formed RPN term that IS itself a well-formed RPN term? This would be interesting to prove, and I am sure it would bring about a great argument among mathematicians. > - Wolfgang Aaron ==== > Should HP produce a calculator that uses prefix notation > as its basic manual entry, versus postfix and infix? I hope not. > I am not aware of one HP calc that does this. Maybe there's a reason. > *all* results are seen. Remember, Polish Notation > is reverse of Reverse Polish Notation. Well, help me to understand this; in RPN, if I want to add '1+2+3+4+5' the way I do it now is: 1 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + So are you saying that in your PN calc, it would be: + 5 + 4 + 3 + 2 1 If so, how many pending operations (and stack levels) would that build up, and when would I get to see each intermediate result? Having obtained any previous results, how would I use them further, for subsequent computations? > A simple left to right entry into the calc. But in your post before this one, you said: > Hence, we can evaluate an expresssion in prefix form > by working from right to left. I see; you *enter* everything from left to right, but it has to be *evaluated* by the calc from right to left -- that's where things seem to differ from good old RPN, where the order of entry is the same as the order of evaluation; this should greatly increase its value as a mental exercise machine, both for the user and for the internals programmer :) Well, if your wife likes RPN, she's bound to love PN even more. Actually, is she a good writer? How about having her write the manual, then: It's just as you would do a problem using pencil and paper, except that you have to finish everything first, and then enter it all backwards into the calculator. :) -------- Then you should say what you mean, the March Hare went on. I do Alice hastily replied, at least I mean what I say -- that's the same thing, you know. Not the same thing a bit! said the Hatter, Why you might just as well say that 'I see what I eat' is the same thing as 'I eat what I see' You might just as well say, added the March Hare, that 'I like what I get' is the same thing as 'I get what I like' You might just as well say, added the Doormouse, which seemed to be talking in its sleep, that 'I breathe when I sleep' is the same thing as 'I sleep when I breathe'! It is the same thing with you, said the Hatter, and here the conversation dropped. [C. L. Dodgson] http://www.lewiscarroll.org/carroll.html [r->] [OFF] . ==== More by or about C. L. Dodgson [a/k/a Lewis Carroll]: http://www.maa.org/mathland/mathland_3_3.html http://xraysgi.ims.uconn.edu/rpa-output/logic/zoo.p -[]- . ==== > > I did not discuss such an irrelevant question as to > > whether Lukasiewicz was Polish or Ukrain (which > > in any case is hard to decide). > Again, just another interesting sidenote. Jan Lukasiewicz was born in Lwow > in 1878 where he studied at the University of Lwow. Should we infer from the fact that the philosopher Emanuel Kant was born in Kaliningrad (formerly K.9anigsberg) that he was a Russian? And the same K.9anigsberg as well? At the time when Jan Lukasiewicz was born, Lwiw (formely Lw.97w) was considered to be a Polish town, occupied by the Russians. And all Polish people I spoke with continue to consider it to be a Polish town, although the Polish population today still living in Lwiw is a small minority by now. ==== > > the variuos notation representations. Read the google archives. I'm not insulting you, but this is a *very* common thread... > > > > You are preaching to the converted :-) > > Do you have an HP prefix calc, or do you program in LISP? :o) Ah, then > even the converted (postfix users) could experience something new. I personally learnt RPN rather quickly. I tried as an experiment to learn normal polish notation. Couldn't do it. Perhaps you could follow up to sci.math? cheers, Al ==== > > > > Having such a huge number in the queue the best > > its author could do is to resign and to cancel > > his message from this NG. > > Why? But Aaron, just because Wolgang demands this. Din't you know that?? ;-) > > It's an paradigma of > > a long text with zero content, he should better > > try to become a politician :-) What Aaron should try to become is none of your or anybody else's business. But anyway don't wish that too loudly. Politicians can cut down the amount of money used for mathematical research. ;-) > I thought it might be interesting to understand the various notation methods > used as a study of mathematics (seeing as though we are mathematicians) > *without* the bias toward any one method. It *is* interesting and not even 100000 imperators in this world will manage to lower the interest towards such questions. > > He has seemingly not read my post in the thread > > RPN versus Algebraic a week ago on the history > > of RPN and its role in mathematics and programming. > > I have. How does reading my post lead you to the conclusion that I have not > read your post? Which form of mathematical induction did you use? He used WIWTWI (Wolfganian-I-Want-It-That-Way-Induction). ;-) Your example of prefix syntax: >+ - * 2 3 5 / ^ 2 3 4 >+ - * 2 3 5 / 8 4 (2^3 = 8) >+ - * 2 3 5 2 (8/4 = 2) >+ - 6 5 2 (2*3 = 6) >+ 1 2 (1+2 = 3) Actually the whole building of Mathematica is done in a quite similar way. For example the definition of normal multiplication is of the form Times[arguments], though of course Mathematica will let you input products in their usual algebraic form: a*b. Your above example in the inner world of Mathematica looks like (Method 1): Plus[Minus[Times[2,3],5],Ratio[[Power[2,3],4]] If you think the brackets away, this is essentially the input of above. (You can also think of invisible brackets in your example.) The same calculation can be done in Mathematica also by entering (Method 2): Times[2,3] Minus[%,5] Power[2,3] Rational[%,4] Plus[%%%,%] where % stands for last result and %%% stand for third last result. This resembles your input from above, though the difference is that we still apply many operations to already existing results. Now, for me it seems quite hard to pre-post all functions that *will* act on arguments, *when* the arguments are available. Especially when dealing with more complex expressions this can get quite confusing. I would rather work using Method 2 of above, which in some extend resembles the HP calculators method. But anyway, input easyness can't be just put down to a few criteria, as number of key presses and the like, since there will be always personal preferrence for some specific method. (That's a big big advantage of Mathematica and the plurality of syntax variations that it understands.) Greetings, Nick. ==== Using the INPUT function, which is defined as: Level2 Level1 Level1 String1 String2 INPUT --> User Input Which will prompt the user and leave the input the user had input on Level 1. Sometimes a copy of String2 within ' ' is left in Level2 above the user input which is left on Level1, or concatenated with the user input, contained in ' ' and left on Level1. This seems to be dependent on wheher String2 is a nullstring or not. I do succeed the INPUT fcn by OBJ-> to convert it appropriately. Any ideas would be appreciated. Tom C. ==== > Using the INPUT function, > String1 String2 INPUT --> User Input > Sometimes a copy of String2 within ' ' is left in Level2 above the > user input which is left on Level1, or concatenated with the user > input, contained in ' ' and left on Level1. This seems to be > dependent on wheher String2 is a nullstring or not. Are you referring to the return of the original arguments to the stack if you press CANCEL once or twice to cancel it? Or, could you be referring to what happens if you return an empty (null) string from INPUT, and then perform OBJ-> on it, which results in *nothing* being put on the stack? INPUT simply edits a string, and performing OBJ-> on the resulting string does whatever would have happened if you had typed the same stuff directly into the command line. One problem with this is that command line input may create no objects, or any number of objects, and may also execute commands, having any possible effect on the stack; if you put a HALT right after INPUT and then another HALT right after OBJ-> then you can see exactly what's actually happening. A simple means of taming the shrewish INPUT: ... INPUT { SWAP + OBJ-> This alternative generally results in one single list being produced, no matter what is typed (although this can be defeated by typing an unmatched } while editing); then you can check for how many objects are in the list, vs. what you expected, etc. An even more bullet-proof alternative to OBJ-> on a string (Warning: syseval addresses are for *48* only!) http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=6s8kmk%24aev%241%40news.iastate.edu [r->] [OFF] . ==== > > > Using the INPUT function, > > String1 String2 INPUT --> User Input > > Sometimes a copy of String2 within ' ' is left in Level2 above the > > user input which is left on Level1, or concatenated with the user > > input, contained in ' ' and left on Level1. This seems to be > > dependent on wheher String2 is a nullstring or not. > > Are you referring to the return of the original arguments > to the stack if you press CANCEL once or twice to cancel it? > > Or, could you be referring to what happens if you return > an empty (null) string from INPUT, and then perform OBJ-> on it, > which results in *nothing* being put on the stack? > > INPUT simply edits a string, and performing OBJ-> on the > resulting string does whatever would have happened > if you had typed the same stuff directly into the command line. > > One problem with this is that command line input may create > no objects, or any number of objects, and may also execute > commands, having any possible effect on the stack; if you > put a HALT right after INPUT and then another HALT right after > OBJ-> then you can see exactly what's actually happening. > > A simple means of taming the shrewish INPUT: > > ... INPUT { SWAP + OBJ-> > > This alternative generally results in one single list > being produced, no matter what is typed (although this > can be defeated by typing an unmatched } while editing); > then you can check for how many objects are in the list, > vs. what you expected, etc. > > An even more bullet-proof alternative to OBJ-> on a string > (Warning: syseval addresses are for *48* only!) > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=6s8kmk%24aev%241%40news.iastate.edu > > [r->] [OFF] What I was referring to was just the 'normal' usage of INPUT, where the user simply types in something on the command line and hits ENTER. What I've discovered is that the string that INPUT received on level1 (recall I am referring here to the simple case of INPUT where it receives two strings on the stack)is concatenated in front of whatever the user types (during execution) in before hitting ENTER. The HP lit (user manual or AUG do not make this clear at all!). I finally did find this detailes in either the Donnelly or Wickes books. Tom C. ==== I have been trying to install a prog on my 49G for quite a time, but did not manage to succeed. The manual did not help me either. The prog consists of several files of the type PROG. With other progs of the type L.... I did not have any problems at all. Can anybody tell me what I have to do to make these PROGs run on my 49G. The link to the prog is http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3926 THX, Matthias ==== > trying to install on 49G > http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3926 Unzip on PC into a folder. Send each program file separately (using Kermit) to calc (you could start in a new directory if you want to keep them as a separate group). This is not a library; leave the received programs in user memory (not in ports). Press 'thermo' to start. [r->] [OFF] . ==== > > I have been trying to install a prog on my 49G for quite a time, but did not > manage to succeed. The manual did not help me either. The prog consists of > several files of the type PROG. > > With other progs of the type L.... I did not have any problems at all. > > Can anybody tell me what I have to do to make these PROGs run on my 49G. > > The link to the prog is http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3926 > > > THX, > Matthias In general installation of libraries is not the same like installation of programs. I suppose what you have successfully installed until now, was always a library (L....). You install programs is general, by just transfering them to some directory on your HP49G. They are stored in a variable which is visible in the variables menu. Then you have to press their menu key, or type the program name and press [ENTER], to let them run. (Press the key [VAR] to go to the variables menu). Greetings, Nick. ==== outside the US :-( Well, here they are: The first post-ACO calculators... ...Taiwan Rules! :) Still and all, an HPCC member. -- ==== > You seem to have a misunderstanding of what a refurbished unit is... Most likely. > A refurbished unit is a unit that has been sent back by a customer because > of a problem (any kind). Like the serial port bug? > It has then been checked, repaired (if required) and put back in a as-new > condition Like adding AUG and a PC adapter? > HP does NOT refurbish calculators... They don't repair them Serial port bug still there then? :) > it will still be a *new* HP49 as you would have been the first to open it The second one: the first was the guy who downloaded ROM 1.18 ;) HPCC #1046 ==== Stan ==== Is there a way in equation writer to use a double-click or a long press on the up arrow, to select the whole expression, through the use of Keyman? ==== I've fooled around with KML a bit in the past, but what I'd really like (specifically for the small PocketPC screen) is to be able to have different key labels depending upon your mode. For example, if you shift to ALPHA mode, the the labels on the keys show only the alpha letters. When you RIGHT SHIFT, you'd see only those functions on the keys, and so on. Is there any way to accomplish this using KML? If so, it would sure make a clean, uncluttered bitmap that would really be an advantage with so little screen real estate. Any opinions? Simon ==== > I've fooled around with KML a bit in the past, but what I'd really > like (specifically for the small PocketPC screen) is to be able to > have different key labels depending upon your mode. For example, if > you shift to ALPHA mode, the the labels on the keys show only the > alpha letters. When you RIGHT SHIFT, you'd see only those functions on > the keys, and so on. Is there any way to accomplish this using KML? If > so, it would sure make a clean, uncluttered bitmap that would really > be an advantage with so little screen real estate. > No, that isn't possible. The key drawing part can only distinguish between pressed and released buttons. Christoph ==== I'm finally running EMU48 (emulating the 49G) on my Ipaq 3955. What I can't seem to figure out is how do I load libraries? I've been running the emulator on my PC for a long time and have it all set up, but mostly, I used drag-and-drop to load objects which I can't do on the PPC. I've transferred all of the lib files to a diretory on the PPC but when I use the LOAD OBJECT command, none of the lib files appear in the file dialog (although my own programs do). I know I was able to do this before on my Jornada 720 WinCE machine, but I'm darned if I can figure it out now! Help! Any advice would really be appreciated. Simon ==== I am trying to translate one basic program to UserRPL and, after days and days, now I'm really frustrated... Is there any way that my program flows after execute one subprogram? For example: BASIC: 10 if a=0 then goto 30 20 ..... 30 ..... If a=0 program skips to line 30 and continue to the end of the program. Great! usrRPL: if a 0 == then RUT ... ... After subprogram RUT has been executed, I must rewrite all lines to the end of program!! Just imagine hundreds crossed if-then-goto structures!!! Am I doing something wrong? Excuse me for my bad english and PLEASE help!!! Zvonko ==== > I am trying to translate one basic program to UserRPL and, after > days and days, now I'm really frustrated... Is there any way that my > program flows after execute one subprogram? For example: Don't be frustrated. The translation of this kind is (in general) no easy task. Actually it is quite often the case that the whole program has to be re-designed. > BASIC: > 10 if a=0 then goto 30 > 20 ..... > 30 ..... > If a=0 program skips to line 30 and continue to the end of the > program. Great! > > usrRPL: > if a 0 == then RUT > ... > ... > After subprogram RUT has been executed, I must rewrite all lines to > the end of program!! Just imagine hundreds crossed if-then-goto > structures!!! Well, you already found out how difficult it can be. If the basic program continues from line 30 to the end, then you could make a separate UserRPL program that contains the translation of these lines. (I guess that's what the program RUT does ?) But if additional goto's are in these lines, then the same story is repeated for these goto's. If the code from line 30 to the end is jumped on from only one or two goto's, then you couls also include the code of RUT in the program. BASIC: 10 if a=0 then goto 30 20 ..... 30 blahblah1 40 blahblah2 50 blahblah3 usrRPL: IF a 0 == THEN blahblah1 blahblah2 blahblah3 END But if the code in used more than once or twice, then this direct translation ends up by having multiple copies of the same code in the program: BASIC: 10 if a=0 then goto 30 15 if c=3 then goto 30 20 if b=1 then goto 30 25 ..... 30 blahblah1 40 blahblah2 50 blahblah3 usrRPL: IF a 0 == THEN blahblah1 blahblah2 blahblah3 END IF b 1 == THEN blahblah1 blahblah2 blahblah3 END IF c 30 == THEN blahblah1 blahblah2 blahblah3 END In such a case you could put all tests that jump to line 30 in one place: usrRPL: IF a 0 == b 1 == OR c 30 == OR THEN blahblah1 blahblah2 blahblah3 END You see, the above simple case demands a bit of re-designing. It is clear that the more complex your basic program is, the more complex will be its translation in UserRPL. > Am I doing something wrong? Not at all, you're at a difficult task, that's all. BTW, the above problem is not a proviledge of the translation from basic to UserRPL. Translation is always a hard task. Just try Babble Fish to see what I mean ;-) Greetings, Nick. ==== Are those prices on there for real?! The 9s is $11.99? Somehow I don't think I'd expect much for that price... > HP calcs web page is changed. > > http://www.shopping.hp.com/cgi-bin/hpdirect/shopping/scripts/home/store_acce > ss.jsp?template_type=storefronts&category=calculators&aoid=1429 > > > > > -- > ================================================ > BELLANTONE MAURIZIO - IT consultant, free programmer > SPINETTA MARENGO (AL) - ITALY > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ================================================ > > ==== and they're ....out of stock ! > Are those prices on there for real?! The 9s is $11.99? Somehow I don't think > I'd expect much for that price... > > > HP calcs web page is changed. > > > > > http://www.shopping.hp.com/cgi-bin/hpdirect/shopping/scripts/home/store_acce > > ss.jsp?template_type=storefronts&category=calculators&aoid=1429 > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ================================================ > > BELLANTONE MAURIZIO - IT consultant, free programmer > > SPINETTA MARENGO (AL) - ITALY > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > ================================================ > > > > ==== Why does the 9G look (and act) so much like a Casio (e.g. fx-6300)? It couldn't, um, actually be made by Casio, could it? (or is there another OEM which makes Casio nowadays?) http://www.shopping.hp.com/shopping/data_sheet/f2222a.html http://www.shopping.hp.com/shopping/images/products/f2222a_400.jpg CPU: SPLB30A [?] Take it with you, when a larger PC is too much to carry. [unless you have a PC in your phone?] Yep, calculators are not hot groundbreaking stuff any more; apparently these latest ones are even dusted off re-runs of old school models of years ago, just moderately uglified (Casio used to reflect a much more artistic/aesthetic sense, even in its most basic and simple old products). The above page ends with: Brands and product names listed are trademarks or registered trademarks of their respective companies. (c) Hewlett-Packard Company 1999 1999? Out of stock Ditto for the 9S: http://www.shopping.hp.com/shopping/data_sheet/f2212a.html http://www.shopping.hp.com/shopping/images/products/f2212a_400.jpg RAM: 128 bytes; ROM: 22K bytes Out of stock Were these ever in stock? Not in time for stocking-stuffing, even, it would appear. As seen on [(TV)]! -- Re Compaq Presario My, what an original, inventive, exciting new advertising pitch! [r->] [OFF] . ==== The HP49g is in stock and worth a look, though. (see the page about HP48gx) http://www.shopping.hp.com/cgi-bin/hpdirect/shopping/scripts/product_detail/ product_detail_view.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1088336776.1039160638@@@@&BV_EngineI D=cceladcgmdlegjlcfngcfkmdflldfgf.0&product_code=48GX%23ABA&cat_level=2 Thomas > Why does the 9G look (and act) so much like a Casio (e.g. fx-6300)? > > It couldn't, um, actually be made by Casio, could it? > (or is there another OEM which makes Casio nowadays?) > > http://www.shopping.hp.com/shopping/data_sheet/f2222a.html > http://www.shopping.hp.com/shopping/images/products/f2222a_400.jpg > CPU: SPLB30A [?] > > Take it with you, when a larger PC is too much to carry. > [unless you have a PC in your phone?] > > Yep, calculators are not hot groundbreaking stuff any more; > apparently these latest ones are even dusted off re-runs > of old school models of years ago, just moderately uglified > (Casio used to reflect a much more artistic/aesthetic sense, > even in its most basic and simple old products). > > The above page ends with: > > Brands and product names listed are trademarks or registered > trademarks of their respective companies. > (c) Hewlett-Packard Company 1999 > > 1999? > > Out of stock > > > Ditto for the 9S: > > http://www.shopping.hp.com/shopping/data_sheet/f2212a.html > http://www.shopping.hp.com/shopping/images/products/f2212a_400.jpg > RAM: 128 bytes; ROM: 22K bytes > > Out of stock > > > Were these ever in stock? > > Not in time for stocking-stuffing, even, it would appear. > > > As seen on [(TV)]! -- Re Compaq Presario > My, what an original, inventive, exciting new advertising pitch! > > > [r->] [OFF] ==== > Why does the 9G look (and act) so much like a Casio (e.g. fx-6300)? I have compared both machines, and having slight different screen: - Both have same screen output layout - Both have 400 bytes memory to store - Both have 21 basic functions graphs built-in to draw them faster - Both have similar (or same) user programming language - ... And one last funny thing: 6+3=9, them fx-6300g becomes hp-(6+3+0+0)g > It couldn't, um, actually be made by Casio, could it? > (or is there another OEM which makes Casio nowadays?) Maybe it is licensed to other companies like Citizen i.e., > http://www.shopping.hp.com/shopping/data_sheet/f2222a.html > http://www.shopping.hp.com/shopping/images/products/f2222a_400.jpg I can't belive it, they have put the buggy unit photo: Look at key between [log] and [sin], what does it read? Yes, it says [in] instead of [ln] > CPU: SPLB30A [?] Nice, similar name to last Citizen calcs CPU: KISG1X30A Look at 325g machine: http://www.jcbm.co.jp/eng/consumer/calc/cpdf/srp325g.pdf It seems that HP and Citizen are using same Chinesse manufacturer: http://www.jcbm.co.jp/eng/consumer/calc/cindex.html 'Clone war began has' Ok, next year we will see real 100% HP calculators, so there is a New Hope... May the Force be with you, J.Manrique http://www.asturlinux.org/~jsmanrique Users Club from Gij.97n http://www.etsiig.uniovi.es/asociaciones/clubusu #1077 HPCC Member http://www.hpcc.org ==== http://www.kinpo.com.tw/English/Calculator.htm#sg2 -- ================================================ BELLANTONE MAURIZIO - IT consultant, free programmer SPINETTA MARENGO (AL) - ITALY ---------------------------------------------------------- ================================================ ==== > I can't belive it, they have put the buggy unit photo: > Look at key between [log] and [sin], what does it read? > Yes, it says [in] instead of [ln] I suspect that it's just a problem with the resolution of the image. What I find interesting is that both the 9S and the 9G are marked as Out of Stock. Is this because they've sold *really* well or did they not make many in the first place? Or have they put the ad up before the stock was available in the first place? > Are those prices on there for real?! The 9s is $11.99? Somehow I don't think > I'd expect much for that price... I've had a play with the 9S. You might be pleasantly surprised at how much it does. ==== > > I can't belive it, they have put the buggy unit photo: > > Look at key between [log] and [sin], what does it read? > > Yes, it says [in] instead of [ln] > > I suspect that it's just a problem with the resolution of the image. No, it isn't. I had been 'playing' with the 'marketing kit' (a hp9g and hp9s) and the hp9g came with [in] key instead [ln]. Of course, user releases will come with the right key, but those things say too much about how much care does HP (not the new calculators team) take on them. > > Are those prices on there for real?! The 9s is $11.99? Somehow I don't think > > I'd expect much for that price... > > I've had a play with the 9S. You might be pleasantly surprised at how > much it does. Yes, both calcs are good calcs, being a clone or not, personally, I like them... And best of all, there is people working on calcs in HP, so there is hope for the future. J.Manrique ==== Wow! I've heard this name (kinpo) as a rumour sometime ago, now you have confirmed it. J.Manrique > http://www.kinpo.com.tw/English/Calculator.htm#sg2 ==== I suppose TI calcs are produced at http://www.inventec.com.tw/einventec/index.htm J.Manrique Lopez de la Fuente ha scritto nel messaggio > Wow! > > I've heard this name (kinpo) as a rumour sometime ago, now you have confirmed it. > > J.Manrique ==== Also see the HP7B: http://www.kinpo.com.tw/English/Calculator.htm#hp7b http://www.kinpo.com.tw/images/calculator/hp7b.jpg This answers what's in a name -- nothing! . ==== > I suppose TI calcs are produced at > http://www.inventec.com.tw/einventec/index.htm Hmm... Inventec Appliances Corp. http://www.iac.com.tw/images/product-d.jpg . ==== Good Afternoon Can someone explain how to open a 49g, preferably without a sledgehammer. Also has anyone ever tried to increase available ram without frying the insides. Just curious. Stan ==== >> >> Hey Nick: >> Hmmm, I'm not sure, but you're probably right...let me run a couple of >> tests--invert some matrices and do some integration, etc.... >Oh, crap! I just tried to start up the trusty old 49G--and nothing >happened!! (yes, as a matter of fact, I did check the batteries....) >Oh my, oh my, the sky is falling, >Roger Well, my 49G is OK (reset, left batteries out for a while)....the Casio A22T certainly does seem to run calculations faster---but then the Casio hardware (even though, in my opinion, does not compare well with other $495 devices) is much improved over what the 49G has---this is really an apples and oranges comparison--it seems to me that the limitation we find with our 49Gs is not at all in the CAS but the limited memory and slow processor.... Anyway, I am having a problem in the comparisons--for one test I ran a double summation: for y from 1 to 10 and for x from 1 to 10 of (x^3*y^3 + x^2*y^2 + x*y)---my other systems gave the result 9301875, but my 49G keeps saying 44804650...I MUST be entering something wrong on the 49 but I cannot figure out what....could someone else please try this calculation?..... Happy holidays, Roger ==== I have been reading this news group since more than a year after discovering the HP-49g on HP Web site, buying one, and then discovering HP Museum, HP-Calc and a few others on the Web. Please note that all the opinions in this posting are mine and I do not want to impose anything on anyone. I just hope that HP is reading this posting and that someone will take notice of the few points I develop further down. As a practicing engineer and the proud owner of many HP calculators over the last 28 years I can only say that I am a bit deceived by the actual status of HP calculators. Let's first introduce myself: Name : Jean (Johnny) Lemire. Age : 49 Mechanical engineer since 1978. Mechanical engineering course in Polytechnic School of Montreal from 1973 to 1977. I was called a calculator freak by many of friends and later, a computer freak when I bough my first Apple II in 1978. HP calculators I bought so far: HP-45 in 1974. I still have it and it works well except from the battery pack that does not hold a charge. I will fix that someday, thanks to HP Museum Web Site HP-25 in 1975. I sold it to a colleague at work after buying a 41C. I regret it since it was a nice machine. HP-41C in 1979. I sold it to buy a 41CV. HP-41CV when it came out. I sold it to buy a 41CX HP-41CX when it came out. I still have it and it works perfectly. Nearly all the accessories for the HP-41, IL module, printer, cassette drive, Wand, card reader and lots of library manuals with programs in math, stats, engineering, games, etc. HP-48SX with library card when it came out. That one was stolen. It is too bad since this was a nice machine HP-49G bough in 2001. This is a nice machine for having fun with maths but is not up to par when it comes down to efficient number crunching. Things I like on the 49G: Power, lots of memory, units functions are handy if my handbooks are not around. Things I do not like on the 49G: Lack of documentation: As compared to 41C era it is very skimpy. Even by downloading some extra manuals, you cannot say you have something as good as what was included with older machines. By the way, many people do not have facilities to connect to the Internet or to print the hundreds of pages of the extended manuals found on the Web. Keyboard clutter: This began with the HP-67 when they had to provide three shift keys to access all the functions on the keyboard. It was somewhat stabilized with the 41C, CV, CX when they used the possibility of assigning functions to keys. The imprinted labels were correctly chosen for the most used one and it was easy to assigned less frequent ones and shift to user mode. Well done HP. On the 49 there is simply too much although it is useable. But, for not having the so important ENTER key not at its usual place, not so well done HP. Keyboard legibility: At least, on older machines, the contrast between the case color and the function legend was good. On the 49 G, it is less than good. The use of a shiny blue for the case and red and blue labels for the functions is not very clever. Why not stick with black or another dark color and use yellow, gold, white or another light color for labels. Not so well done HP. Keyboard feel: On the HP-45 they began using raised key, I mean raised a lot. Also, these keys have a pivot point placed in front of the key (below the case face, of course). I know since I opened my 45. This arrangement allows the key to actually move an appreciable distance before actuating the switch. The tactile feedback that results is excellent. I compared it with the TI-58 and 59 that appeared in the same era as the HP-67 and HP was the winner on that matter. Some will remember that the first HP-35 had smaller square keys for the functions in the upper part of the keyboard. These were later replaced with HP-45 like keys on the last vintage of the HP-35. This scheme was retained in the HP-41 serie. Well done HP. On the 49G I am not as fast in entering number because the keys gets in my way, they slow me down. If I am ready to pay a substantial amount of money on a machine like that I would be willing to spend a few extra $ to get a decent keyboard. Not so well done HP Other matters since I have a machine with serial number ID93..... Rainbow effect in the display protective cover. It is sometime visible but do not affect me particularly. The serial connection seems to work since I was able to upgrade from 1.10 (or something like that) to 1.18. Conclusion: I think that the coming of micro-computer in the late 70's and their common use since the 90's have put a brake to the need to cram more and more functions and capabilities in a handheld calculator. It is more efficient to use a computer and software like Maple, Mathematica, Math Cad or Excel to do extensive number crunching, programming or sophisticated math. I bough handheld calculator (I do not use pocket since some have large pockets) because they: - Allow me to do complex calculation rapidly and efficiently - Are portable (fit in one hand, the vertical format is ergonomic, not the horizontal one like HP-11, 12 and 15 series) - Are durable. I understand HP wanting to appeal to young peoples in school by selling cool machines. They made compromise on the 49, like moving the ENTER key at a place that might be logical for an algebraic machine but that is not logical for a RPN machine. That is fine but HP should also sell higher end machines for working peoples. By higher end I mean powerful but also efficient. They also should not forget that many of today's students will be using calculators in their careers. Why not give them the possibility of choosing the best calculators. Instead they probably said to themselves: why do better that the other and have to sell at a higher price and loose part of the market. This is leveling by the base. Sorry this is the best I can find for the french nivellement par la base. It is easier that saying let's do the best and force the rest to catch up. I think HP was like that in the past. There is a market of working peoples needing good calculators: engineers, architects, scientists, researchers, etc. Our population is getting older so this market should be increasing. What I need is a calculator that allows me to perform calculations and to do that real fast. To date, my HP-41 is the top contender. If I want to do heavy calculations I use Excel on my computer. The speed of keyboard entry on a computer is much faster even without touch typing than using a calculator keyboard. To me, the most efficient calculator shall meet these criteria: It need to be small enough to fit in my shirt pocket so I can have in with me all the time. It must be solid and reliable. It must have a real HP keyboard like the 41. It must use RPN since I feel this is the most efficient system. It must have a few storage registers. It must have a good batteries life (a few months at least). As I can see, the 32-Sii seems to be the best machine that will fill the bill. It is too bad it has been discontinued. HP is selling low-end machines like the 9-S, the 9-G, the 20-S and so on. But they lack RPN and they lack a decent keyboard. These sell for 30 US$ or less. I would pay 30$ or even 50 US$ (75 CAN$) to get a machine similar to the 32-Sii. There is probably a use of cramming more and more functions in a small calculator but it appeals to few peoples and is not really practical in day to day work. Again, these are only my opinions. Hoping that HP will at least make a market study and gives us soon a real RPN calculator. Since then I will use my 41-CX and play with my 49-G. Jean Lemire from Montreal. ==== > To me, the most efficient calculator shall meet these criteria: > It need to be small enough to fit in my shirt pocket so I can have in > with me all the time. > > It must be solid and reliable. > > It must have a real HP keyboard like the 41. > > It must use RPN since I feel this is the most efficient system. > > It must have a few storage registers. > > It must have a good batteries life (a few months at least). > > As I can see, the 32-Sii seems to be the best machine that will fill > the bill. It is too bad it has been discontinued. yes, I couldn t agree with you more! When I bought my 49G, my first HP ever, I realised that RPN was fantastic, but the keyboard was so stiff that I couldn t do calculations quickly enough. And when it comes to exams, this is not good. So I bought a 32Sii just 1 or 2 days before it was discontinued, because it was the only cheap RPN sci model available by HP. I must admit that I wasn t expecting much of it, BUT I was so impressed by the capabilities of it, by the VERY GOOD keys and by the excellent manual that I never use the 49G for number crunching any more. I like my 49G, but I love my 32Sii, because it reflects the philosophy of a different era! I don t have any doubts that an improved 32Sii with more memory, a two line display and infinite stack would sell like crazy. What HP doesn t seem to realise is that besides students, there are other people in the world, like engineers, programmers, managers etc., which don t want fancy colours and covers, but the traditional power and characteristics of the old HP models, that I wasn t lucky enough to enjoy, since I m only 24. Why don t they split their Calculator department in two parts? :-) Alex Markatis from Athens, Greece Civil Engineer ==== X > I don t have any doubts that an improved 32Sii with > more memory, a two line display and infinite stack > would sell like crazy. X it's called HP 42S ==== > X > > I don t have any doubts that an improved 32Sii with > > more memory, a two line display and infinite stack > > would sell like crazy. > X > it's called HP 42S I really wish I had one of these, but... :-( Alex Markatis, Greece Civil Engineer ==== > > X > > > I don t have any doubts that an improved 32Sii with > > > more memory, a two line display and infinite stack > > > would sell like crazy. > > X > > it's called HP 42S > > I really wish I had one of these, but... :-( I have one (and even a hp32sii), and it is a great unit... Don't say 'but', ask for a new hp42s, maybe a hp42sii or even a hp42g.. Who knows? Maybe our praises are hear, don't give up. J.Manrique http://socios.asturlinux.org/jsmanrique Users Club from Gij.97n http://www.etsiig.uniovi.es/asociaciones/clubusu #1077 HPCC Member http://www.hpcc.org ==== > > I don t have any doubts that an improved 32Sii with > > more memory, a two line display and infinite stack > > would sell like crazy. > > it's called HP 42S The 42S did not have an infinite stack. Nor the amount of memory we expect nowadays. Its two-line display was hard to read (compared with most other HP calculators). But it was its annoying method of entering alpha characters and its lack of key assignments which made me stop using it. Every calculator with more functions than keys ought to have a USER mode in which most (if not all) of the keys can be remapped at will, so that the functions I need NOW are available NOW with one keystroke. -Joe- ==== . > Every calculator with more functions than keys ought to have a USER mode in > which most (if not all) of the keys can be remapped at will, so that the > functions I need NOW are available NOW with one keystroke. It would be nice to have that, but to me, at least, it is not essential. Indeed, I would give it a pretty low priority. And yes, I do use my calculator at work. My $0.02, Bhuvanesh. ==== > The 42S did not have an infinite stack. For them as hasn't one, Pioneer series (including business models) have a variable stack, but only up to four levels (and not less than 1) > Nor the amount of memory we expect nowadays. But it doesn't need as much memory, in part due to more compact programming, less graphics, and the fact that its only input device is the keyboard (why didn't anyone ask for a 2-way I/O? Maybe they realized that this adds both expense and bulk) Tons of memory can now fit in a tiny package, but there's no way to use it without substantial 2-way I/O capability. > Its two-line display was hard to read > (compared with most other HP calculators). My Pioneers are a bit easier to read than my 48/49, because the lines are just about the same size (actually 1 character longer), and on some LCDs slightly taller and distinctly clearer. > But it was its annoying method of entering alpha characters > [via a 2-keystroke character menu which appears only in alpha mode] > E.g. [ABCDE] [FGHIJ] ... -> [A] [B] [C] [D] [E] ... Well, also a very neat way of reducing keyboard clutter! But 6-character strings (from HP41) might also be mentioned (a consequence of memory organized into fixed-length registers, each the size of a real number, which has all obviously changed in the subsequent graphing calcs with RPL objects). > and its lack of key assignments which made me stop using it. But it does have a custom menu, with a somewhat unlimited number of assignments (six visible at a time, just like HP48/49), dynamically changeable using the ASSIGN command (I set up mine with commands which also chain to a sequence of alternates). So, did the HP32SII have any of these things? If you've stopped using them, are you auctioning them off? > Every calculator with more functions than keys ought to have > a USER mode in which most (if not all) of the keys > can be remapped at will, so that the functions I need NOW > are available NOW with one keystroke. I thought that even the HP48G had 2300 functions (according to some HP literature about it); how many non-keyboard functions do *you* actually have available with *one* keystroke? (and don't you lose some keyboard function every time you assign another?) With so many funcitons existing internally, there's a musical chairs limitation to how many can be on the keyboard at any one time; one interesting variation to the keyboard theme is where the keyboard itself is a touch screen, and its keys change function as you use them. A well thought out illustration of the power of this approach is Calc98, downloadable from http://calculator.org (who also say gradients instead of gradians, so Why can't the English teach their students how to speak? :) Its uncluttered keys have only one legend each, which often change when you press Shift; in RPN mode its M in and MR keys become STO and RCL and its = key turns into Enter, etc. (for fun, try the Roman numeral mode :) Aren't similar techniques used in popular pocket devices? [r->] [OFF] . ==== > For them as hasn't one, Pioneer series (including business models) > have a variable stack, but only up to four levels (and not less than 1) I thought that they always had exactly 4 levels which, when cleared, were merely set equal to 0 (like the HP-41 and all previous HP calculators). Am I wrong? > > Nor the amount of memory we expect nowadays. > > But it doesn't need as much memory, in part due to > more compact programming, less graphics, and the fact that > its only input device is the keyboard Quite right. > (why didn't anyone ask for a 2-way I/O? > Maybe they realized that this adds both expense and bulk) > Tons of memory can now fit in a tiny package, but there's > no way to use it without substantial 2-way I/O capability. An HP42S with I/O was shown around at the PPC Conference at which the 42S itself was first introduced... but the I/O was a hack, and was never intended for mass production, unfortunately. It would've been easy, since the HP-41 and HP42S used the same internal hex codes for programs, if I remember correctly, which is rare, if I remember correctly, which is rare, if I remember correctly. > My Pioneers are a bit easier to read than my 48/49, > because the lines are just about the same size > (actually 1 character longer), and on some LCDs slightly taller > and distinctly clearer. I guess I'm spoiled by my 49G with its screen cover removed: http://holyjoe.org/nowin1.jpg > > But it was its annoying method of entering alpha characters > > [via a 2-keystroke character menu which appears only in alpha mode] > > E.g. [ABCDE] [FGHIJ] ... -> [A] [B] [C] [D] [E] ... > > Well, also a very neat way of reducing keyboard clutter! Heh heh! Then I suggest a keyboard with only two keys. That would minimize keyboard clutter! And it's all you really need, if keystroke efficiency is not a concern. Or how about just one double-state key, such as a right/left toggle key, or a single-click/double-click key, or a hard-press/soft-press key? The possibilities are endless (ask users of KEYMAN! :) My favorite is no keys at all, with a direct neural interface, so that Big Brother can keep track of the times that you attempted to do anything > If you've stopped using them, are you auctioning them off? No. Since eBay apparently only lets you sell things that you made yourself, I can't. ;-) I'm afraid that I gave away both of my 42S's. No, I do not have one any more. :-( > I thought that even the HP48G had 2300 functions (according to some > HP literature about it); how many non-keyboard functions > do *you* actually have available with *one* keystroke? > (and don't you lose some keyboard function > every time you assign another?) The answer to that question changes from day to day, which was my whole point. I make key assignments and blow them away again all the time, whenever it feels that doing so would reduce the overall number of keystrokes. Wanna see the list of my *current* key assignments? It's a long list. Some are interesting. > With so many funcitons existing internally, there's a musical chairs > limitation to how many can be on the keyboard at any one time; > one interesting variation to the keyboard theme is where > the keyboard itself is a touch screen, > and its keys change function as you use them. Agreed! I'd *love* to have keys with LCD's in 'em and a thick hunk of optical fibers between the surface of the LCD and the surface of the key, so that it would look as if the display were actually on the very surface of the key. Folks here have said that such a thing is too expensive to be practicable, but SOME DAY it might be doable. -Joe- ==== > My favorite is no keys at all, with a direct neural interface, so that Big > Brother can keep track of the times that you attempted to do anything Ask Rcobo, he already did similar experiments and utterly defeated BB. No danger anymore ;-) > Agreed! I'd *love* to have keys with LCD's in 'em and a thick hunk of > optical fibers between the surface of the LCD and the surface of the key, so > that it would look as if the display were actually on the very surface of > the key. Folks here have said that such a thing is too expensive to be > practicable, but SOME DAY it might be doable. Actually I have seen a similar keyboard years and years ago in former Yugoslavia. It had not a mini LCD, but a red LED point matrix on every key, which was showing the character that each key produced. When you pressed the shift button, the characters on the LED matrices changed, indicating what the new keyboard assignments were. It was a bit hard to work with it for longer time, since the LEDS it just started looking more and more like the night in Las Vegas, but I guess that using LCD instead of LED could make things better. Or perhaps a pressure sensitive flexible screen, and you write your inputs on it! Greetings, Nick. ==== JKH> The answer to that question changes from day to day, which was my whole JKH> point. I make key assignments and blow them away again all the time, JKH> whenever it feels that doing so would reduce the overall number of JKH> keystrokes. Wanna see the list of my *current* key assignments? It's a JKH> long list. Some are interesting. I definitely would like to see the interesting ones! - Carsten ==== A re-make of he HP42 would be a damn good idea, especially with the following features; * 2-way I/R and serial interface (same cable as the HP48) * Larger memory * infinite stack * User keyboard functionality * similar command set to the 48/49 * larger 3/4 line display (making the calc a bit longer than the old one) This could be called a 52 or whatever. It certainly would be a more useful calculator than the College toys that HP are bringing out in steady succession. I'm a surveyor and earth scientist, and the need for a compact RPN programmable calculator with lots of grunt, tactile keyboard and low power drain is vital. In the field or laboratory, it's unlikely that Maple/Mathematica type programs are required. The algebraic logic system is also very unsuitable for numerical computations (though some might argue differently) and on-the-fly programming. It's understandable that HP are pandering to the consumer driven demand for cheap and gimmicky high school and college calculators, which look like mobile phones. These might serve students well for learning purposes and esteem amongst their peers, but in the real-world a lot of the graphical / algebraic stuff is done on a PC or notebook. Can HP please consider the many hundreds of thousands of engineering calculator users in the real world ! Is it not too hard an ask !? If HP don't build something like this, it's just a matter of time before somebody else does. Richard Stanaway Research School of Earth Sciences Australian National University ==== > A re-make of he HP42 would be a damn good idea, especially with the > following features; [...] > * infinite stack As soon as you make that change, it's so different from the 41 and 42 that there's no point bothering to try for any compatability at all. At this point it's much more like a 28, even if you leave out symbolics. ==== > Agreed! I'd *love* to have keys with LCD's in 'em and a thick hunk of > optical fibers between the surface of the LCD and the surface of the key, so > that it would look as if the display were actually on the very surface of > the key. Folks here have said that such a thing is too expensive to be > practicable, but SOME DAY it might be doable. But they exist! Check http://www.nkksmartswitch.com/ A bit large, perfect for the old folks or for those with 10 tumbs. I don't think fiber optic is the way, but one organic-led flexible panel might do it... Steve Sousa ==== > I thought that [Pioneer series calcs] always had > exactly 4 levels which, when cleared, > were merely set equal to 0 > (like the HP-41 and all previous HP calculators). Well, not on my 17Bii, in which stack roll initially cycles only one, two, or three values, not quite mimicking the old calcs until four levels have been filled. My 42S -- is out of batteries; someone else please check it out :) What about 32Sii? (I never had one) Was it only the originally algebraic (later switchable to RPN) financial models (17Bii, 19Bii) which act this way? [r->] [OFF] . ==== > > A re-make of he HP42 would be a damn good idea, especially with the > > following features; > [...] > > * infinite stack > > As soon as you make that change, it's so different from the 41 and 42 that > there's no point bothering to try for any compatability at all. At this > point it's much more like a 28, even if you leave out symbolics. ==== do you like this? http://www.virtualdevices.net/Flyer.pdf ==== he he actually it will be posible (one of this days) to have such an interface. it requires a lot of sensors (thousands). then a computer can match the readings of a previously saved thought pattern. A current rumor is that the US goverment is supposed to put some type of machine with a sensor in airports and monitor the 'general' state of mind of a person comming in (not to read his/her thought which is impossible). But this is not as easy as it sounds since we are talking about microvolts (thoughts) and a physical contact (fpr the sensor) is required as of today. On the other hand, some german guy managed to do a muscle (not neural) interface a while back. > > > My favorite is no keys at all, with a direct neural interface, so that Big > > Brother can keep track of the times that you attempted to do anything > > Ask Rcobo, he already did similar experiments and utterly defeated BB. > No danger anymore ;-) > > > Agreed! I'd *love* to have keys with LCD's in 'em and a thick hunk of > > optical fibers between the surface of the LCD and the surface of the key, so > > that it would look as if the display were actually on the very surface of > > the key. Folks here have said that such a thing is too expensive to be > > practicable, but SOME DAY it might be doable. > > Actually I have seen a similar keyboard years and years ago in former > Yugoslavia. It had not a mini LCD, but a red LED point matrix on every > key, which was showing the character that each key produced. When you > pressed the shift button, the characters on the LED matrices changed, > indicating what the new keyboard assignments were. It was a bit hard > to work with it for longer time, since the LEDS it just started > looking more and more like the night in Las Vegas, but I guess that > using LCD instead of LED could make things better. > > Or perhaps a pressure sensitive flexible screen, and you write your > inputs on it! > > Greetings, > Nick. ==== > he he > > actually it will be posible (one of this days) to have such an > interface. it requires a lot of sensors (thousands). then a computer > can match the readings of a previously saved thought pattern. Does this mean something like recognition of someone's writings, only that this thime we have patterns of currents of brain activity instaed of patterns of letters? And about the thousands of sensors, how could the procedure of connecting them to the brain, be made simple? I mean, if so many sensors are needed, then someone will need a loong time for just connecting them. It will not be so easy to just sit at the computer, turn it on and do something. What can be done here? > A current rumor is that the US goverment is supposed to put some type of > machine with a sensor in airports and monitor the 'general' state of > mind of a person comming in (not to read his/her thought which is > impossible). But this is not as easy as it sounds since we are talking > about microvolts (thoughts) and a physical contact (fpr the sensor) is > required as of today. If currents flow at brain activity, then there is electromagnetic radiation. Would a super sensitive receiver do the job and free us from the contacts? > On the other hand, some german guy managed to do > a muscle (not neural) interface a while back. Muscle inteface you say? May I suppose that the sensors see the muscles contactions? Anyway, great things will come and I'm happy that I'll presumably have the luck to see them. But for me the best interface is still pen and paper, an analogon of which I hope will be also developed in the next years. (Too scared to connect me to the HP49G. It will pass me its bugs, and I don't know how my bugs will react when combined with the new ones ;-)) Greetings, Nick. ==== Anybody know of a program in RPL or for a PC which calculates the distances between the planets for a given date? I'm looking especially for the Earth-to-Venus and Earth-to-Mars distances. The astronomy programs I've -Joe- Average time for light to reach Earth from Sun: almost exactly 8 min, 19 seconds, according to HP48/49. ==== Don't have a RPL program to suggest, but ECU gives these distances as 2.239 AU for Mars and 0.421 for Venus ECU(Earth Centered Universe) www.nova-astro.com. Danny > Anybody know of a program in RPL or for a PC which calculates the distances > between the planets for a given date? I'm looking especially for the > Earth-to-Venus and Earth-to-Mars distances. The astronomy programs I've > > -Joe- > Average time for light to reach Earth from Sun: almost exactly 8 min, 19 > seconds, according to HP48/49. > > ==== Any good planetarium program for the PC can do that. I enjoy Distant Suns by Mike Smithwick - his site has a free download version. Run it, set the desired date (and time), tell it to find the desired planet, and click on the planet. A box will give the distance and loads of other information. For this purpose, it's somewhat overly involved and greatly overkill. But its other features make it a source of endless interaction. Best to you from Penngrove! Jim (Not at my computer so I don't have the bookmark handy - Google will) ==== > I enjoy Distant Suns by Mike Smithwick - his site has > a free download version. Wow, you're right! Good stuff! But then again, any software that gets kudos from Arthur C. Clarke has got to be good! -Joe- ==== Planning your next vacation? > Anybody know of a program in RPL or for a PC which calculates the distances > between the planets for a given date? I'm looking especially for the > Earth-to-Venus and Earth-to-Mars distances. The astronomy programs I've > > -Joe- > Average time for light to reach Earth from Sun: almost exactly 8 min, 19 > seconds, according to HP48/49. > > ==== > Anybody know of a program in RPL or for a PC which calculates the > distances > between the planets for a given date? I'm looking especially for the > Earth-to-Venus and Earth-to-Mars distances. The astronomy programs I've > > -Joe- > Average time for light to reach Earth from Sun: almost exactly 8 min, 19 > seconds, according to HP48/49. Although it might be overkill just for this question, Urania also has this info.Distance from Earth is in the main planet info sheet, distance between other planets could be done using the AstroTools capabilities. See http://www.cg.tuwien.ac.at/~gzotti/hp/urania/index.html ==== To open a 49G calculator is not so difficult, you only need a manual drill hole to pick up the 6 plastics connection that are behind the batteries, but be very carefull with that, ok. Then you can use any tool to separate the two calculator«s cover (ligth blue and black). Do it carefull, too. To solder the fail capacitor is not so difficult, you can use a 30 watts Cautin to solder it. But first, I suggest you, before do it with your calculator, practice with another thing less expensive. When you finish all, close up with a little pression. The 49G calculator«s problem is one of the most common problem in South America. -Dante Aron.92 C. Electrical Engineer. deachp@yahoo.es www.geocities.com/deachp/deachp.html ==== > The solution: To change the capacitor of 1000 microfaradios and 6.3 > volts that are inside the 49G. > > -I don«t understand how HP can permit this fail, and how a simple > piece can fail. It could be related to: http://www.niccomp.com/taiwanlowesr.htm There were some talks about this in sci.electronics.design not long ago. In your signature you state that you're an Electrical Engineer, can you measure this capacitor ESR, does it have any bulging, singn of leak, etc? Steve Sousa ==== Someone has previously complained about the choice of capacitors, even in the HP48: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3626127D.D09643F3%40iol.ie I'm constantly amazed at the silly things designers do after they've just finished producing a work of genius. A long but highly interesting and educational essay about engineering in general: http://www.me.gatech.edu/me/publicat/AugTranscript.htm [r->] [OFF] . ==== More HP49G number fun... REPUNIT(n) is just a string of n 1's. For example, REPUNIT(3) = 111, which is 3*37. PRIME(n) is the nth prime number. For example, PRIME(3) = 5. Very few REPUNIT(n) are divisible by PRIME(n). Monkeying around the other day, I found the following: REPUNIT(6) = 111111; PRIME(6) = 13; 111111/13=8547. REPUNIT(12) is divisible by PRIME(12). I've found only 9 more cases. Any idea why these are so rare? -Joe- ==== > More HP49G number fun... > > REPUNIT(n) is just a string of n 1's. For example, REPUNIT(3) = 111, which > is 3*37. > > PRIME(n) is the nth prime number. For example, PRIME(3) = 5. > > Very few REPUNIT(n) are divisible by PRIME(n). Monkeying around the other > day, I found the following: > > REPUNIT(6) = 111111; PRIME(6) = 13; 111111/13=8547. > REPUNIT(12) is divisible by PRIME(12). > > I've found only 9 more cases. Any idea why these are so rare? I'll take a stab at this. Since you've only asked for an idea, I can avoid mathematical rigor. Hand waving is more fun, anyway! Let's suppose that there is no underlying relationship between REPUNIT(n) and PRIME(n), so that in effect what we are asking for each PRIME(n) is whether it divides some large random integer. We can expect this to happen with probability 1/PRIME(n). We can now calculated an expected value of the number of cases of divisibility by PRIME(k) for all k up to and including k = m. E(cases) = Sum [ 1/PRIME(k) ] 1<=k<=m How large is PRIME(n)? There are various approximations we can use. My choice is PRIME(n) ~ n*LN(n). It's not terribly accurate for small n, but it has the right asymptotic behavior, and has the further advantage that it's easy to analyze. So we could expect correct asymptotic behavior from E(cases) = Sum [ 1/(k*LN(k)) ] 2<=k<=m We can approximate this sum by an integral: E(cases) = Int [ dx/(x*LN(x)) ] 2<=x<=m which has the closed form solution: E(cases) = LN(LN(m)) - LN(LN(2)) We can ignore the LN(LN(2)) term because we are interested in asymptotic behavior, and our approximation isn't very good for small integers anyway. So the term of interest is the LN(LN(m)) term. One thing to note is that it goes to infinity as m goes to infinity. In other words, we can expect that there are an infinite number of cases of divisibility by PRIME(n). Another thing to note is that LN(LN(m)) is *very* small even for large m. m LN(m) LN(LN(m)) --- ----- --------- 10 2.30 0.83 100 4.61 1.53 10^3 6.91 1.93 10^6 13.82 2.63 10^9 20.72 3.03 So we would expect only about 3 cases for the first billion primes. This is an underestimate, since the first 400,000 primes yield divisibility of REPUNIT(n) by PRIME(n) for n = 6, 12, 2394, 2431, 14148, 150886, 213634. I'm astonished that you've found 11 of these cases (two plus nine more, right?). I'd be even more astonished if you actually claim to have found them on an HP49. Scott -- Scott Hemphill hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu This isn't flying. This is falling, with style. -- Buzz Lightyear ==== > So we would expect only about 3 cases for the first billion primes. This > is an underestimate, since the first 400,000 primes yield divisibility of > REPUNIT(n) by PRIME(n) for n = 6, 12, 2394, 2431, 14148, 150886, 213634. > > I'm astonished that you've found 11 of these cases (two plus nine more, > right?). I'd be even more astonished if you actually claim to have found > them on an HP49. OK, I'm a little less astonished, since this isn't quite as hard as I thought. Your list of 11 cases reads: 6 12 2394 2431 14148 150886 213634 405280 2626236 4713856 40522560 This list is complete for the first 203280221 primes, which are all the primes that fit into a 32-bit integer. The last prime tested was 4294967291. If you have a way of finding the primes, the trick for finding whether PRIME(n) divides REPUNIT(n) is to find out whether 10^n == 1 (mod PRIME(n)). This last doesn't even require O(n) operations; it can be done in O(log(n)). Scott -- Scott Hemphill hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu This isn't flying. This is falling, with style. -- Buzz Lightyear ==== You would be surprised what the 49/48 is capable of doing, with the right software. I once atttended a hp-conference (London 1997) and presented a comparison of the 48gx with historical state of the art number-crunchers. I used the 48 to search for Mersenne primes (and perfect numbers), and managed to keep up with the best computers from 1952 (or was it 1957?) >> Even when using the powerful Lucas Lehmer test (used to test if 2^p-1 is prime, see http://www.utm.edu/research/primes/mersenne.shtml#test , propably the same test that was used by Gillies in 1963 when he discovered that 2^11213-1 is prime, and he propably used a more advanced version), this will take about 45 days on my 49 with the following program: << 4 3. 4. ROLL I->R FOR s SQ 2 - OVER MOD s 3. DISP NEXT NIP NOT >> Input p (11213) and 2^p-1 The program returns 1 if 2^p-1 is prime (p>2). It's quite fast, it uses 14 sec. to verify that 2^127-1 (39 digits) is prime, and 7m 14s to verify that 2^521-1 (157 digits, first proved by Robinson in 1952) is prime, too. exponents up to 7507. (2^7507-1)*2^7506 has 4520 digits, and would take about 8,5 metres to print out using font size 12.. Hope this was of some interest. Chrsitian Meland Scott Hemphill skrev i melding > > > More HP49G number fun... > > > > REPUNIT(n) is just a string of n 1's. For example, REPUNIT(3) = 111, which > > is 3*37. > > > > PRIME(n) is the nth prime number. For example, PRIME(3) = 5. > > > > Very few REPUNIT(n) are divisible by PRIME(n). Monkeying around the other > > day, I found the following: > > > > REPUNIT(6) = 111111; PRIME(6) = 13; 111111/13=8547. > > REPUNIT(12) is divisible by PRIME(12). > > > > I've found only 9 more cases. Any idea why these are so rare? > > I'll take a stab at this. Since you've only asked for an idea, I can > avoid mathematical rigor. Hand waving is more fun, anyway! > > Let's suppose that there is no underlying relationship between REPUNIT(n) > and PRIME(n), so that in effect what we are asking for each PRIME(n) is > whether it divides some large random integer. We can expect this to > happen with probability 1/PRIME(n). > > We can now calculated an expected value of the number of cases of > divisibility by PRIME(k) for all k up to and including k = m. > > E(cases) = Sum [ 1/PRIME(k) ] > 1<=k<=m > > How large is PRIME(n)? There are various approximations we can use. My > choice is PRIME(n) ~ n*LN(n). It's not terribly accurate for small n, > but it has the right asymptotic behavior, and has the further advantage > that it's easy to analyze. > > So we could expect correct asymptotic behavior from > > E(cases) = Sum [ 1/(k*LN(k)) ] > 2<=k<=m > > We can approximate this sum by an integral: > > E(cases) = Int [ dx/(x*LN(x)) ] > 2<=x<=m > > which has the closed form solution: > > E(cases) = LN(LN(m)) - LN(LN(2)) > > We can ignore the LN(LN(2)) term because we are interested in asymptotic > behavior, and our approximation isn't very good for small integers anyway. > > So the term of interest is the LN(LN(m)) term. One thing to note is that > it goes to infinity as m goes to infinity. In other words, we can expect > that there are an infinite number of cases of divisibility by PRIME(n). > Another thing to note is that LN(LN(m)) is *very* small even for large m. > > m LN(m) LN(LN(m)) > --- ----- --------- > 10 2.30 0.83 > 100 4.61 1.53 > 10^3 6.91 1.93 > 10^6 13.82 2.63 > 10^9 20.72 3.03 > > So we would expect only about 3 cases for the first billion primes. This > is an underestimate, since the first 400,000 primes yield divisibility of > REPUNIT(n) by PRIME(n) for n = 6, 12, 2394, 2431, 14148, 150886, 213634. > > I'm astonished that you've found 11 of these cases (two plus nine more, > right?). I'd be even more astonished if you actually claim to have found > them on an HP49. > > Scott > -- > Scott Hemphill hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu > This isn't flying. This is falling, with style. -- Buzz Lightyear ==== > So we would expect only about 3 cases for the first billion primes. This > is an underestimate, since the first 400,000 primes yield divisibility of > REPUNIT(n) by PRIME(n) for n = 6, 12, 2394, 2431, 14148, 150886, 213634. > > I'm astonished that you've found 11 of these cases (two plus nine more, > right?). I'd be even more astonished if you actually claim to have found > them on an HP49. Wow! I guess I should be surprised that there are so many, then, not so few. Golly. Anyhow, here are the eleven solutions I've found so far, hopefully with no errors that Rodger won't catch: n, PRIME(n) 6, 13 12, 37 2394, 21319 2431, 21649 14148, 153469 150886, 2028119 213634, 2952557 405280, 5882353 2626236, 43381529 4713856, 80808961 40522560, 787223761 That's all there are for n < 50 million. Although using an HP49G would ordinarily take annoyingly long, I found three ways of greatly speeding up the process: (1) Instead of checking for divisibility of REPUNIT(n) by PRIME(n), you can instead check to see if POWMOD(10,n)=1 after doing PRIME(n) STOMOD. In other words, when REPUNIT(n) MOD PRIME(n) = 0, then 10^n MOD PRIME(n) = 1. [Except for n=2, which is a special case, as often happens in number theory.] Since the HP49G has a very fast POWMOD function, it takes almost no time to check for POWMOD(10,n), even when n is huge and REPUNIT(n) would be impossible for the HP49 to handle. (2) Instead of finding PRIME(n), just use NEXTPRIME once per iteration. That keeps n and PRIME(n) in sync, and is much faster. (3) Instead of using a *real* HP49, use the emulator on a kick-ass computer. :-) By the way, what tools did you use to find your solutions listed above? -Joe- ==== When I integrate (x*(ln(x))^2)/2 step by step in the HP49 I get a message displaying Risch alg. of tower and {ln(x) x}. What is this algorithm? can anybody explain it to me? Marturo UBI DUBIDUM IBI LIBERTAS ==== > When I integrate (x*(ln(x))^2)/2 step by step in the HP49 I get a > message displaying Risch alg. of tower and {ln(x) x}. What is this > algorithm? can anybody explain it to me? > > > Marturo > > UBI DUBIDUM IBI LIBERTAS It's a non-trivial algorithm, especially for a full implementation, and would take a long time to explain. Also, I'm not good at explaining things (it would be better to read standard books on computer algebra such as Modern Computer Algebra by von zur Gathen). However, if you'd still prefer an explanation here, I can try. -- Bhuvanesh P.S.: The tower refers to a tower of extensions. Also, the Risch algorithm is not really needed for this particular problem. ==== > can't be effected with SYSEVAL any longer in the HP49, > because the decision to move SYSEVAL itself into a FlashPtr > messed up the ability to work on the runstream at all. > This has been fixed already... What does already mean? Using my 48G rom, when I run I get the list of variables in the hidden directory. Whereas using my 49G (1.19-6) rom, when I run I get only an Interrupted message box, and no list at all. can be used instead on the 49G, to have the desired effect: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=83v723%24p3h%241%40nnrp1.deja.com Also available for HP48: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8kuiik%24bvg%241%40nnrp1.deja.com [r->] [OFF] . ==== I am trying to balance chemical reactions with my HP 49G and Chemlab but I can't figure it out! I have read the instructions but they are unclear to me... Do I have to put in the chemical equation AND the matrix? DO I do them separate? Here is a small sampling of the thing's I've tried: 2: C2H6+02->CO2+H2O 1: [[2010] [6002] [0221]] [[A B C D] [C2 H6 O2 H2O] [2 0 1 0] [6 0 0 2] [0 2 2 1]] Every time I get No solution which baffles me since this is the example in the instructions--HELP! Ryan ==== You are very close! I assume you have checked the readme.doc and are trying to follow its instructions, which are more obvious to an ancient decrepit user than they are to a new one :) The matrix requires you to enter the numbers as you give them in your first example, but with a space between each number: [[ 2 0 1 0] [6 0 0 2] [0 2 2 1]] thus creating a 4x3 matrix rather than the 1x3 matrix. The letters for the formula are not entered in the calculator at all, you keep track on a separate sheet of paper. Hope this helps! ==== i've tied to upgrade my ROM to ver 1.18, but i fucked em up. The memory was erased.... Help me. What should i do? ==== > i've tied to upgrade my ROM to ver 1.18, but i fucked em up. The memory was > erased.... Help me. What should i do? You should watch less American B movies and learn a bit more non-vulgar English ;-) ==== > i've tied to upgrade my ROM to ver 1.18, but i f****d em up. The memory was > erased.... Help me. What should i do? Try to upgrade again - the download menu will work! ==== Please, see the instructions and install the 1.19-6 version from : http://www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/49.html Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK **************************************************************************** *** > i've tied to upgrade my ROM to ver 1.18, but i fucked em up. The memory was > erased.... Help me. What should i do? ==== As my mom always said, Try try try again! Aaron > i've tied to upgrade my ROM to ver 1.18, but i fucked em up. The memory was > erased.... Help me. What should i do? > > ==== here's a link to a help page for the HP 49g ROM update, and help for when it goes wrong . . . http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/pc/rom/ -- an HP 49g newb > i've tied to upgrade my ROM to ver 1.18, but i fucked em up. The memory was > erased.... Help me. What should i do? > > ==== Bonjour, je viens de t.8el.8echarger un programme de statistiques sur mon HP48GX mais je ne sais pas comment le faire tourner, le programme est Stat48 2.1 (details) 13KB/27KB Performs hypothesis tests and confidence intervals for single sample mean, proportion, & standard deviation; two sample means (dependent or independent), variances, & proportions. Additional tests include one and two way analysis of variance (one or more factors), contingency tables, goodness of fit, and linear correlation test. Also included are critical values and p-values for the z, t, F, and Chi-square distributions. Runs on HP48G+ and GX. By Scott Guth (H). du site http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/math/statistic/ quelqu'un pourrait-il me dire comment je dois le faire tourner parce que on peut le dire, je n'y pige RIEN, je ne sais m.90me pas le d.8emarrer ... Merci d'avance Pitou.be begin 666 icon48gx.jpg ==== Why do programs I download to my 49g end up as strings instead of programs? Why does the cas give the wrong answers? Why is the sky blue. No scratch that one. ; ) Sincerly A Jaded New User. ==== > Why do programs I download to my 49g end up as strings instead of > programs? They are libraries that must be archived so to speak. Press the softkey relating to the program, type a port number (0, 1 or 2), the press STO. Do an on-c combination and your program is ready to go! > > Why does the cas give the wrong answers? It doesn't. Instead, it allows the user to be flexible with the answers given. > > Why is the sky blue. No scratch that one. ; ) > > Sincerly > > A Jaded New User. ==== Aaron Toponce schrieb im Newsbeitrag > [..] > > Why does the cas give the wrong answers? > > It doesn't. Instead, it allows the user to be flexible with the > answers given. > LOL. Nice answer:-) CASMAN... Raymond ==== On 6 Dec 2002 07:03:39 -0800, top88keys@yahoo.com (Aaron Toponce) >> Why do programs I download to my 49g end up as strings instead of >> programs? > >They are libraries that must be archived so to speak. Press the >softkey relating to the program, type a port number (0, 1 or 2), the >press STO. Do an on-c combination and your program is ready to go! >> >> Why does the cas give the wrong answers? > >It doesn't. Instead, it allows the user to be flexible with the >answers given. >> >> Why is the sky blue. No scratch that one. ; ) > >> >> Sincerly >> >> A Jaded New User. ==== Seen: > Why is the sky blue? So, before the Industrial Revolution, the sky wasn't blue? The blue color of the sky is due to Rayleigh scattering. http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/sky_blue.html Lord Rayleigh also calculated that even without smoke and dust in the atmosphere, the oxygen and nitrogen molecules would still cause the sky to appear blue because of scattering. http://www.why-is-the-sky-blue.org/why-is-the-sky-blue.html But why is it also polarized? (giving rise to sky filters for better cloud photos, and my LCD watch being hard to read in the late afternoon :) Why the Sky is Blue, a Poem by John Ciardi I don't suppose you happen to know Why the sky is blue? It's because the snow Takes out the white. That leaves it clean For the trees and grass to take out the green. Then pears and bananas start to mellow, And bit by bit they take out the yellow. The sunsets, of course, take out the red And pour it into the ocean bed Or behind the mountains in the west. You take all that out and the rest Couldn't be anything else but blue. Look for yourself. You can see it's true. http://www.poets.org/poets/poets.cfm?prmID=697 http://www.uark.edu/~uaprinfo/titles/backlist/literature/poetry/ciardi.html . ==== :) > Seen: > > > Why is the sky blue? > > > So, before the Industrial Revolution, the sky wasn't blue? > > > > The blue color of the sky is due to Rayleigh scattering. > http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/sky_blue.html > > Lord Rayleigh also calculated that even without smoke and dust > in the atmosphere, the oxygen and nitrogen molecules would still > cause the sky to appear blue because of scattering. > http://www.why-is-the-sky-blue.org/why-is-the-sky-blue.html > > > But why is it also polarized? (giving rise to sky filters > for better cloud photos, and my LCD watch being hard to read > in the late afternoon :) > > > > Why the Sky is Blue, a Poem by John Ciardi > > I don't suppose you happen to know > Why the sky is blue? It's because the snow > Takes out the white. That leaves it clean > For the trees and grass to take out the green. > Then pears and bananas start to mellow, > And bit by bit they take out the yellow. > The sunsets, of course, take out the red > And pour it into the ocean bed > Or behind the mountains in the west. > You take all that out and the rest > Couldn't be anything else but blue. > Look for yourself. You can see it's true. > > > http://www.poets.org/poets/poets.cfm?prmID=697 > http://www.uark.edu/~uaprinfo/titles/backlist/literature/poetry/ciardi.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > ==== > > > > > You have to consider the cost as well. Only students with lots of > > money to spare would consider getting a Cassiopeia. > > > > Right, I've had a Casio A22T with Maple for CE for some time....I found the > A22T at an excellent price on eBay-but if I had purchased it for the > suggested retail price, I would have been VERY disappointed. IMHO, one of > the best is still DERIVE for DOS running on an HP200LX... > > Happy Holidays, > Roger Because I still want to buy a Casio A22T with Maple, could you be more specific? What disappointed you so much? Was the limited Maple not powerful enough? Or are there other disadvantages considering the power of that tool? Greetings, Nick. ==== > > > > > You have to consider the cost as well. Only students with lots of > > money to spare would consider getting a Cassiopeia. > > > > Right, I've had a Casio A22T with Maple for CE for some time....I found the > A22T at an excellent price on eBay-but if I had purchased it for the > suggested retail price, I would have been VERY disappointed. IMHO, one of > the best is still DERIVE for DOS running on an HP200LX... and with THE GEOMETER'S SKETCHPAD in Euro or Dollars? What's the website sell Casio A22T with software and Casio products in Europe? Matteo Italy ==== > and with THE GEOMETER'S SKETCHPAD in Euro or Dollars? > What's the website sell Casio A22T with software and Casio products in > Europe? > Matteo > Italy I bought my A22T on eBay for US $75 and the software directly from Casio.... Roger ==== > Because I still want to buy a Casio A22T with Maple, could you be more > specific? What disappointed you so much? Was the limited Maple not > powerful enough? Or are there other disadvantages considering the > power of that tool? > > Greetings, > Nick. for CE will tell you that a command or function from regular Maple V is not available in this version of Maple and there was absolutely ZERO documentation from Casio)--it is the hardware that I would have been disappointed with--slow processor, limited RAM, black-and-white non-backlit screen--just not worth the US $495 suggested retail compared to other PocketPCs or Palm devices, but for the $75 I paid on eBay, it's just fine! Happy Holidays, Roger ==== > > > Because I still want to buy a Casio A22T with Maple, could you be more > > specific? What disappointed you so much? Was the limited Maple not > > powerful enough? Or are there other disadvantages considering the > > power of that tool? > > > > Greetings, > > Nick. > > for CE will tell you that a command or function from regular Maple V is > not available in this version of Maple and there was absolutely ZERO > documentation from Casio)--it is the hardware that I would have been > disappointed with--slow processor, limited RAM, black-and-white non-backlit > screen--just not worth the US $495 suggested retail compared to other > PocketPCs or Palm devices, but for the $75 I paid on eBay, it's just fine! > > Happy Holidays, > Roger I see. But isn't MAPLE on that machine much faster than the CAS of the HP49G for comparable operations? Also happy holidays, Nick. ==== > I see. But isn't MAPLE on that machine much faster than the CAS of the > HP49G for comparable operations? > > Also happy holidays, > Nick. Hey Nick: Hmmm, I'm not sure, but you're probably right...let me run a couple of tests--invert some matrices and do some integration, etc.... Roger ==== > > Hey Nick: > Hmmm, I'm not sure, but you're probably right...let me run a couple of > tests--invert some matrices and do some integration, etc.... > > Roger > Oh, crap! I just tried to start up the trusty old 49G--and nothing happened!! (yes, as a matter of fact, I did check the batteries....) Oh my, oh my, the sky is falling, Roger ==== I've done an HP49 library at home with the emulator. I have an HP48. I want to carry the library with me in my calc and transfer it to an HP49. Is that possible? I've tried to send it from my computer to my calc without success. I've done a search on this group and the best thing I've found was JYA saying to never transfer libraries from 48 to 49 because they won't That's not my problem, the library is ok for a 49. Suggestions are welcome, miz. ==== > I've created an HP49 library at home with the emulator. > I want to carry the library with me in an HP48 > and transfer it to an HP49. When sending (binary mode) directly from 49 (emulator) to 48 (real), or when saving from emulator to PC and then PC to calc (binary), it will become a string HPHP49-xxxxxx in the 48; fine, keep the string as-is. When transferring (binary mode again) from 48 to 49, another string prefix gets inserted, so now you have: HPHP48-yyyyyyHPHP49-xxxxxx Now, in the 49, apply FIXOB (or OBJFIX) twice, reversing each of the above string prefix insertions, and the actual original object should be extracted. WARNING: FIXOB does NOT convert incompatible binary objects (e.g. libraries) between *different*model* calcs! http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3C7EB86C.9697B5A5%40miu.edu http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8t1n18%244j4%241%40nnrp1.deja.com In this case, however, note that the original object was produced on a 49 (emulated) and ends up being finally extracted on the same model (49), so it is appropriate. Sometimes you may think an object is compatible, but it isn't: FIXOB v1.1 for 48 or 49 (by Werner Huysegoms) http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8qcv36%24hvt%241%40nnrp1.deja.com http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4207 http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/utils/comms/fixobv11.zip Modified OBJFIX (originally supplied by HP) for 48 or 49: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8q46gs%24a18%241%40nnrp1.deja.com ASCI/ASCO for 49 (safe hex posting/downloading for small binaries): http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=83v723%24p3h%241%40nnrp1.deja.com The principal difference between OBJFIX and FIXOB is that OBJFIX works only on objects stored in variables, while FIXOB takes its argument from the stack; Werner's FIXOB extracts objects in place (no copy is made), which allows the processing of larger objects. JYA's original UserRPL shortcut is simple, but performs no safety checks whatsoever, hence could result in a crash and/or memory lost if applied to any inappropriate object: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=37be66ff%40isoit370.bbn.hp.com [r->] [OFF] . ==== There is an application* for the 48 series, that I want to port to the 49. You can find ERROR (5904 bytes), short for error analysis at http://hpcalc.beachnet.org/details.php?id=1486 This UNCERTAINTY CALCULATION PROGRAM -for the 48SX series- adds, subtracts, multiplies, raises to a power, etc. uncertainties, and was done by Jay Kyle, UBC, Chemical Engineering student in 1991/ 93 (v 1.2) Any guidance will be appreciated. According to http://hpcalc.beachnet.org/hp49/docs/faq/#ss4.6 in order, to port User RPL programs one should transfer the program to the 49 in ASCII Kermit mode (or directly from another HP48 using the supplied link cable), making sure the calculator is in both RPN and approximate mode (both non-default) and the program should run fine. I've already tried this with this app and didn't work. It's strange, 'cause it doesn't seem to me at least, that this application was made neither in System RPL nor in assembly language or has any complex command... FAQ > System RPL and assembly language programs are harder to port. You need to get the source code to the program (possibly by disassembling it, but preferably from the program's author) and then recompile it using the HP49 entry points list. Since many System RPL programs use unsupported points, you will need to rewrite parts of the program. It is a very bad idea to use unsupported entry points on the HP49, as they are much more likely to move from one ROM version to another than they were on the HP48. In addition, with some programs, you will have to adjust key detection routines because of the changed keyboard layout. -- Carlos ==== Keyman, as written in Keyman.txt since long, does not support assignments of shiftholds of two keys: alpha and ON. This concerns the 49- Keyman only. The reason is explained below. Clearly, you can assign these shiftholds with the builtin command ASN. But they won't work! For instance, put HALLO on level 2 and 71.31 on level 1 and press ASN. Then rightshift-hold alpha does not echo HALLO in the stack as it should. Probably an old bug in the 49-OS. Even if you run 71.31 DELKEYS afterwards, you've lost 36 bytes of your RAM forever, unless you don't restore a previously made HOME backup. It may be that JYA was not intending to treat the mentioned shiftholds, but then there should have been a notice joining the ROM (was it 19-3?) which introduced user-shiftholds and modified the structure of the UserKeys list - and ASN should definitely refuse to accept such assignments. - Wolfgang PS. There was a small bug in a 49-Keyman option, fixed in vs. 2.2003 which can be downloaded from ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/keys/ ==== > Keyman, as written in Keyman.txt since long, > does not support assignments of shiftholds of > two keys: alpha and ON. This concerns the 49- > Keyman only. The reason is explained below. > > Clearly, you can assign these shiftholds with > the builtin command ASN. But they won't work! > For instance, put HALLO on level 2 and 71.31 > on level 1 and press ASN. Then rightshift-hold > alpha does not echo HALLO in the stack as it > should. Probably an old bug in the 49-OS. I have to admit that I didn't think about that. It's not really a bug.. The way the HP49 is currently handling the ON key doesn't make such change so easy, or to be more precise it would have introduced major changes in the way the key are handled right now.. Something we can look at in the future.. But is it really required. It seems that you're the first one to ever notice and I'm sure you've been paying with the keyboard assignments more than anyone else. ==== > > Clearly, you can assign these shiftholds with > > the builtin command ASN. But they won't work! > > For instance, put HALLO on level 2 and 71.31 > > on level 1 and press ASN. Then rightshift-hold > > alpha does not echo HALLO in the stack as it > > should. Probably an old bug in the 49-OS. > I have to admit that I didn't think about that. > It's not really a bug.. The way the HP49 is currently handling the ON key > doesn't make such change so easy, or to be more precise it would have > introduced major changes in the way the key are handled right now.. > Something we can look at in the future.. But is it really required. It seems > that you're the first one to ever notice and I'm sure you've been playing > with the keyboard assignments more than anyone else. Yes, better not touching a running system (as shiftholds of ALPHA could be very useful, at least this possibility should be realized in ROM 19-7. - Wolfgang ==== Please enlighten me with your experience! Does the Xpander run on the Jornada 720 ? I am thinking of buying one and that would affect a lot my decision. !Demeter! ==== > > Please enlighten me with your experience! > Does the Xpander run on the Jornada 720 ? > I am thinking of buying one and that would > affect a lot my decision. Xpander software runs on any Windows CE device as long as it has an ARM or SH3 compatible cpu ==== > > Please enlighten me with your experience! > Does the Xpander run on the Jornada 720 ? > I am thinking of buying one and that would > affect a lot my decision. > > !Demeter! Xpander was specifically designed for a Pocket PC screen (320 lines high), so though it may actually run on a Jornada 720 (which is 240 lines high), you may only see part of the application, I don't remember if the application screen size is hardcoded or dynamically stretched to the device screen size... I suggest you try it yourself at the shop (if they let you), or wait to hear from someone's experience... Alternatively, you can ship it to me, and I'll gladly try for you :-) Gerald. > ... One of the benefits of > GSE1 is that it lets you set a maximum tolerable error, which lets the > program find solutions much faster... > Well I couldn't let that pass, now could I? > Here's the adaptation of KNAPSACK to accept any list, and a tolerance as well: No bug, only that the user will have difficulties to load it with JHM's famous device %%HP:T(3)C$ $ :-) It is rather obvious that setting a narrow tolerance solves the problem faster. With tolerance 0 there is no solution at all, in general... It seems to me that this is not what the initiator of this thread was asking for. He just asked for minimizing the garbage. I propose to consider another kind of tolerance, put upon the algorithm rather than upon the solution: The algorithm should do its task in limited memory space. That makes it perhaps more interesting for defragmenting the flash mentioned by Werner. ==== > It is rather obvious that setting a narrow tolerance solves > the problem faster. With tolerance 0 there is no solution > at all, in general... It seems to me that this is not what > the initiator of this thread was asking for. He just asked > for minimizing the garbage. > The comments included: @ The resulting list is such that the freespace is either less than or equal to tolerance, or minimal. For larger problems of this type, the knapsack algorithm is not at all a a few tubes with zero loss, that the overall loss is minimal. The problem as described is 'bin-packing'. There is no fast way to find the optimal solution in the general case. 'Best Fit Descending' appears to work well in most cases, but of course not necessarily optimal, and you can always find examples where it performs badly. > I propose to consider another kind of tolerance, put upon > the algorithm rather than upon the solution: The algorithm > should do its task in limited memory space. That makes it > perhaps more interesting for defragmenting the flash > mentioned by Werner. > I have many ideas (and nightmares) about defragmenting the Flash... I don't think that it is possible to start from a limited memory and the defragment the flash - rather, I can calculate what the minimum memory requirements should be to be able to do it. Werner ==== Huh? Why not provide two algorithms A) with either 128KB main RAM free OR 128KB ERAM port 1 free use the faster algorithm B) with less... What is your answer Werner...worst case. > It is rather obvious that setting a narrow tolerance solves > the problem faster. With tolerance 0 there is no solution > at all, in general... It seems to me that this is not what > the initiator of this thread was asking for. He just asked > for minimizing the garbage. > The comments included: > @ The resulting list is such that the freespace is either less than or equal > @ to tolerance, or minimal. For larger problems of this type, the knapsack algorithm is not at all a > a few tubes with zero loss, that the overall loss is minimal. > The problem as described is 'bin-packing'. There is no fast way to find > the optimal solution in the general case. 'Best Fit Descending' appears > to work well in most cases, but of course not necessarily optimal, and > you can always find examples where it performs badly. I propose to consider another kind of tolerance, put upon > the algorithm rather than upon the solution: The algorithm > should do its task in limited memory space. That makes it > perhaps more interesting for defragmenting the flash > mentioned by Werner. > I have many ideas (and nightmares) about defragmenting the Flash... > I don't think that it is possible to start from a limited memory and > the defragment the flash - rather, I can calculate what the minimum > memory requirements should be to be able to do it. Werner ==== -12 -> + 12 Volts (RX == 'pin 3' in the HP49G) > RX: does it throw voltage pulses when transmits data? to that frequency? ==== > That works, but what a pain! Yes, you have to think for yourself. That is actually quite discouraging. TI92+ actually returns S(cos(ln(x)),s) as a nice formula of: x*cos(ln(x))/2+x*sin(ln(x))/2 which is exactly what Mathematica returns by the way on this integral. I guess, you assume, that Mathematica does not require thinking :-) HP49 not only fails to integrate this directly, but with all the tricks and pain of the experienced user it leads through maze of guessing and trial and error until you finally manage to obtain the final formula that resembles what normal user really wanted. Guys. Whether you like it or not, lack of automatic simplification is one of the reasons of HP49 miserably failing on the market and leading to the HP calculator downfall. The mass customer expects ease of use, period. ==== http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame54.html http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame26.html I agree totally. The necessary steps on the HP49G, to do the integral in question, is because of a bug in the CAS. This bug will sadly never be fixed, unlike what they usually are on the TI89 and cousins.r... If your math professor takes one look at the CAS, and tells you that the TI89 has a more versatile one, then he is a screwup. Plain and simply - he shouldn't have left the university, before he got to learn more math than merely integrating and differentiating. I'm having a hard time believing that you actually showed the '49 to your math teacher. ==== One can write third-party programs that overcome this limitation (e.g. my nSeries function). Not as good a solution as having it built-in, but there's always a compromise, unfortunately. -- ==== > I actually agree with the math teacher, in that the HP49G is not a > good tool for students (compared to the TI-89). He could within half an hour thoroughly evlauate the CAS of the HP49G. I'd s I know, Bhuv, and my point was not to bash the TI89, or to put down the importance of third-party programs. The original problem hadn't been a problem had it not been for a _bug_ in the HP CAS. It's not a deliberate restriction made by the programmers, but an error. Take it back and exchange it for someting that works - well, if you are studying series expansion*, you are probably better off using the HP49G, which is my point. It's not sufficient just to say The CAS it has is inadequate. * The TI89, for example, fails on these series expansions while the HP49g does not (the TI89 only does taylor expansion btw): 'X^X', 'SQRT(X^2+X+1)', 'ASIN(X)', 'SIN(X)/(EXP(X)-1)'. The TI89 also fails this limit, while the CAS - it doesn't handle factorials in limits. One shouldn't expect much help when using phrases like It makes me wonder, were the makers of this calculator drunk or stoned when they put it together? though. I do not want to waste time helping people that can't be polite. To settle any disputes before they appear: The HP49G is excellent in idea, but too slow, too late and too bad documented. It's also not backed by HP anymore (if it ever was) - hence, a dead end. The TI89 really hasn't got any of the mentioned drawbacks. ==== OK, I don't want to argue about the definition of a CAS :-) Let me just point out the field of computational geometry, which can be quite useful in generating graphics. I know. That's what I tried to say, too, in a different way. > To settle any disputes before they appear: The HP49G is excellent in idea, but too slow, too late and too bad documented. It's also not backed by HP > anymore (if it ever was) - hence, a dead end. The TI89 really hasn't go any of the mentioned drawbacks. There is a possible drawback with the TI-89 as well: TI may try to control development. They are being pretty cooperative right now, and I hope that, besides removing the C-programs-in-expressions limitation, it stays that way. > Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out. Feel free to come > back if you ever find yourself ready for a calculator that requires you > to think, rather than one that just does your homework for you. Guys, guys, you're really biased. Do you really think my TI-89 does my homework for me (assuming I still have homework)? I think it requires me to think just as much as an HP49G (or Mathematica) would. I wouldn't call the HP49G a piece of junk, though. It is still an impressive achievement. -- This Program applied just after accidental purge or overstoring happens could help, but it's designedto work on a hp48GX, so i'm not sure if it works on a 48SX! 'FENIX' , 70 Bytes, Checksum # 7CCDh, no arguments. << LASTARG DUP VTYPE -1 > { DUP RCL OVER VTYPE 7 8 + == { OVER PGDIR } IFT ROT ROT } IFT STO > at least if it doesn't work simply hit LASTARG. ==== Use LASTARG command just after PGDIR ocurrs ( of course it works only if LASTARG ==== I am trying to figure out how to implement non-ascii characters in the names in some of my library command names. It seems right now that it does not work if the first characters in the name are non ascii. However if they are within the boundaries of ascii characters, no complaints are made by the compiler. What is the correct way to do this? ==== > I am trying to figure out how to implement non-ascii characters in the > names in some of my library command names. It seems right now that it > does not work if the first characters in the name are non ascii. > However if they are within the boundaries of ascii characters, no > complaints are made by the compiler. What is the correct way to do > this? The HPTools will accept the escape characters like -> for right arrow etc. Of course, the marvelous Debug4x tool also allows this because of the HPTools! The last resort would be using H->S and S->H commands editing the code directly in hex characters and then translate it back to code again. One can also use the internal editor to edit the hex string and you have then the search & replace ready for a more massive work in case your code is large and have ID references to your special name all over the code. I am trying to figure out how to implement non-ascii characters in the > names in some of my library command names. It seems right now that it > does not work if the first characters in the name are non ascii. > However if they are within the boundaries of ascii characters, no > complaints are made by the compiler. What is the correct way to do > this? ==== > The last resort would be using H->S and S->H commands > editing the code directly in hex characters and > then translate it back to code again. Once again, you answered without even reading the question ! Al, the HPTools accepts the escape character followed by hexa code. So for the entry ->FONT you can do something like: 8DFONT. Translated into library making, you can having something like this sNAME x>FONT 8DFONT to define your entry ->FONT in the library, while still creating the label x>FONT which is easier to enter ==== It seems that I didn't even understand the question... The last resort would be using H->S and S->H commands > editing the code directly in hex characters and > then translate it back to code again. Once again, you answered without even reading the question ! X ==== The HP49 minifont doesn't display some characters correctly, so I installed Werner's Minifont 01. The characters look fine when I transfer text from my HP48, but I have trouble accessing the characters for new files since RS-Chars doesn't match the new minifont (and some of the characters, like infinity, are actually two characters in one). I installed Philippe Pamart's minifont viewer and it's very good, but it won't echo characters. Is there a fix? ==== > Some more oddities... On the 39G, > 2 superscript 3 -> 2^-1 -> 0.5 > 2 superscript 2 -> 2^2 -> 4 > 2 superscript 1 -> 2^1 -> error: Invalid Syntax On the 38G+ > 2 superscript 3 -> 2^3 -> error: Invalid Syntax > 2 superscript 2 -> 2^2 -> 4 > 2 superscript 1 -> 2^1 -> error: Invalid Syntax These are not oddities actually. As I said (below) most of the characters in the CHARS view are for text only; for use in Notes or in text messages in programs. When the 38G was designed the programmers, for reasons only known to them, included superscripts of 1, 2 and 3 but only enabled the 2 as 'squared'. The others are text only and hence the syntax error. On the 39G the superscript 3 is now enabled as a power of -1, hence the 2 becoming 1/2 or 0.5. > an interesting bug in the 39G (also in the emulator). If you go to the > SPECIAL CHARS view, which for non-39G users contains a list of all the > special chars that don't appear on the keyboard, and choose the 'cubed' > char (superscripted 3) then what you actually get is a power of -1 > instead. ==== why I posted to the list. It's a read-modify-write, now, i'm not sure if it's done a nibble at a time or a byte at a time, i think there were at least some cases were two clocks apeared, but i never had any trouble... Are you trying to write in rom address space? ==== >It's a read-modify-write, now, i'm not sure if it's done a nibble at a >time or a byte at a time, i think there were at least some cases were >two clocks apeared, but i never had any trouble... But if we are writing a whole byte, there isn't need to read previous value... just poking would be enough. >Are you trying to write in rom address space? Nope, I'm trying to connect some mocrocontroller directly to the bus, and trying to talk with it like if it were a ram chip, but getting some strange behaviours, I wonder if the Yorke actually does one or two write cycles. ==== Well, I see other people has already answered your question but, If I'm not wrong, it is required to minimize the loss for each 12000 mm tube. Total length=31900 mm; Number of 12000 mm tubes required: ceil(31900/12000)=3; Tube 1: 8000, 2400, 1500; Residual: 100 mm; Tube 2: 8000, 1200, 750, 200, 200; Residual: 1650 mm; Tube 3: 4850, 4800; Residual: 2350 mm; I didn't even write a program. I just applied the following simple method: 1) sort the vector of the lengths in decreasing order; 2) add to each vector element all the subsequent vector elements that doesn't make the sum exceed 12000 mm, and delete all those elements from the vector; 3) apply the point 2) for each 12000 mm tube (that is, 3 times). -- ==== > See http://www.dynatech.de/ ==== I've updated the full version of PowerPlot. I fixed a few problems with the previous version and also added a few small features, specifically with FFT plots. You can download the new beta at my website: http://leviathan.orblivion.com/hp48/software/index.shtml ==== Is it possible to create a custom menu in the Home directory which calls and runs programs which are located in subdirectories? thanks, ==== Yes, if you include the path, I would RCL the executable and then run, so that there are no directory switching: { HOME UTILS My.Util } RCL EVAL You could use the ports, too! Just add :0:, or :1:, or :2: in front of the path. If you have a custom menu in HOME but no other custom menus in the path to the current directory, including in that directory, then the CST in HOME will be the one you get as your custom menu. If a name in such a custom menu is in any directory in the current path, it will be used as if it were called from the current directory. If you have multiple CSTs in the path, only the one closest to the current directory is accessible. ==== http://staging.porternovelli.com/sanfrancisco/preview/hpcalc1/index.htm#intr ==== When using these new entry-level calculators, can we enter operators and data in an RPN manner, or in the algebraic order? RPN, both. > When using these new entry-level calculators, can we enter operators > and data in an RPN manner, or in the algebraic order? http://staging.porternovelli.com/sanfrancisco/preview/hpcalc1/index.htm#intr ==== Sorry, I had the wrong flag turned ON Naturally both are Algebraic. > RPN, both. > When using these new entry-level calculators, can we enter operators > and data in an RPN manner, or in the algebraic order? > http://staging.porternovelli.com/sanfrancisco/preview/hpcalc1/index.htm#intr === http://staging.porternovelli.com/sanfrancisco/preview/hpcalc1/index.htm#intr http://staging.porternovelli.com/sanfrancisco/preview/hpcalc1/index.htm#intr > o ==== I hope you're right, but I'll believe it when I see it. And right now, all I see is crap. > And those ground-up > efforts will include RPN machines - they committed to that in black and white on > their Power Point slides. http://staging.porternovelli.com/sanfrancisco/preview/hpcalc1/index.htm#intr ==== > Sorry, I had the wrong flag turned ON > Naturally both are Algebraic. They both have an Enter key, is there hope? Steve Sousa ==== The [ENTER] just compiles the entry line. They could write COMPUTE on the key, but it's not RPN > Sorry, I had the wrong flag turned ON > Naturally both are Algebraic. They both have an Enter key, is there hope? Steve Sousa ==== I can't see an equal ('=') key on the picture, so there is hope (either for RPN or me getting better glasses;-) The machines seem to be based on the 30S hardware frame. > When using these new entry-level calculators, can we enter operators > and data in an RPN manner, or in the algebraic order? http://staging.porternovelli.com/sanfrancisco/preview/hpcalc1/index.htm#intr ==== I can't see an equal ('=') key on the picture, > so there is hope (either for RPN or me getting better glasses;-) Well, there's an [Enter] key, which is equivalent to the [=] key... -- P.S.: Although the [Enter] key can be used for RPN as well... :-) ==== schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I can't see an equal ('=') key on the picture, > so there is hope (either for RPN or me getting better glasses;-) > Well, there's an [Enter] key, which is equivalent to the [=] key... > Hmm, maybe I'm too used to RPN, but from my understanding ENTER works quite different than '='... Speaking in a somewhat abstract way, ENTER is used to separate entries, wheras '=' is used to combine entries. > P.S.: Although the [Enter] key can be used for RPN as well... :-) ==== The ENTER key evaluates the command line. They are both (Advanced) Algebraic calculators. I can't see an equal ('=') key on the picture, > so there is hope (either for RPN or me getting better glasses;-) The machines seem to be based on the 30S hardware frame. ==== I can't see an equal ('=') key on the picture... nor in 49's keyboard... RPN calcs designed for students of 10-16 yo? I wish but the market doesn't believe these ones can do *any* effort (...easy to see the problem and then immediately see the solution) ==== No RPN in basic models ? Bad beginning for this new HP era ! Wouldn't it be better to add RPN functionality to both 9S scientific calculator & 9G graphing calculator, like in the 49G ? where we must bear up with the algebraic mode by default ? Shouldn't we promote RPN benefits among those kids (while letting them the chance to use their algebraic known choice) ? Aren't we feeding them with other brand options ? Along with a fashioned styling and moderate design, which would be their distinguishing features against you know who options ? The whole specs weren't pubished yet ant the only two images were low-res*. Perhaps, th people from their marketing department would laugh if they read these lines, wondering where am I living ? After all, there is a big chance that we as a community don't have a commercial interest anymore. In any case, sincerely, I just hope the best to the new appointed General Manager of the HP Calculator Division, PSG, Mr Fred A. Valdez. As long as his team and himself are ok, there is still hope for oldtimers like many of us, who will never give up their dreams on HP good old calculators to get back to good things of old products and why not? perhaps even better models. Expecting the division to honour their slogan/motto HP INVENT !!! At least, somebody in Fiorina's shift or even herself see something more we as a bunch don't. Even that, we should be grateful for the pleasurable solid tools HP company gave us... (ok, sold us ;-) *I may be dreaming but, << did any of you like me, notice a 48GX color resemblance in the 9G model ?> Even though I couldn't appreciate the upper left violet labels well, let me add I liked the golden-red-blue colour combination it seems to have, very much. ==== No RPN in basic models ? Bad beginning for this new HP era ! Wouldn't it be better to add RPN functionality to both 9S scientific calculator & 9G graphing calculator, like in the 49G ? where we must bear up with the algebraic mode by default ? Shouldn't we promote RPN benefits among those kids (while letting them the chance to use their algebraic known choice) ? Aren't we feeding them with other brand options ? Along with a fashioned styling and moderate design, which would be their distinguishing features against you know who options ? The whole specs weren't pubished yet ant the only two images were low-res*. Perhaps, th people from their marketing department would laugh if they read these lines, wondering where am I living ? After all, there is a big chance that we as a community don't have a commercial interest anymore. In any case, sincerely, I just hope the best to the new appointed General Manager of the HP Calculator Division, PSG, Mr Fred A. Valdez. As long as his team and himself are ok, there is still hope for oldtimers like many of us, who will never give up their dreams on HP good old calculators to get back to good things of old products and why not? perhaps even better models. Expecting the division to honour their slogan/motto HP INVENT !!! At least, somebody in Fiorina's shift or even herself see something more we as a bunch don't. Even that, we should be grateful for the pleasurable solid tools HP company gave us... (ok, sold us ;-) *I may be dreaming but, << did any of you like me, notice a 48GX color resemblance in the 9G model ?> Even though I couldn't appreciate the upper left violet labels well, let me add I liked the golden-red-blue colour combination it seems to have, very much. ==== Leave alone the RPN key issue. Believe me, I need to imagine there will still be good HP calculators, not anyone but HP ! I'm still working out those exams... By the way, I've just nearly fixed my Emu48 trouble* and could load both your 1me32 (1 Mb RAM Card w/ Erable v 3.2) as well as your MK-Erable32 (1me32).e48. They worked perfect, although ... I'm the one who didn't. You've got too many good applications packed together. Too many to comment and didn't even know most of them. I will need time to understand them all... Even though, I still didn't get what was that kind of solid battery symbol at the top, on the status area nor the letters RSX also there. *I could get back my HomeDir (Port 0), but to the cost of losing all my libs... I'll never know what happened. I'd just installed again the mexican version EmuCalc HP49 [zoom 2 screen hp268x128 pc600x800pxls].kml - Title: !best emuhp49 screen hp268x128pxl zoom 2 pc600*800pxls from http://www.geocities.com/hp4x, along with ROM OPERATING SYSTEM C:/.../HewlettPackard/OS-hp49g-FLASH.rom and Emu48.EXE version 1.31 and Bitmap EmuCalc HP49 [zoom 2 screen pc600x800pxls].bmp Loaded. Debug On. problems, perhaps I'm wrong. Do you know why the Emu48 starts a new e49 Document crashing all memory each time it does so, instead of opening the last saved one ? Is there a way to correct this behaviour by changing something in the c:windowsEmu48.ini file ? [Files] Emu48Directory=G:HP48Emu48 (shouldn't a e49 Doc be defined here?) AutoSave=0 AutoSaveOnExit=1 LoadObjectWarning=1 [Port2] IsShared=1 Filename=SHARED.BIN [KML] AlwaysDisplayLog=1 [Disassembler] Mnemonics=0 [Emulator] RealSpeed=0 SXCycles=82 GXCycles=123 [Serial] Wire=disabled Ir=disabled [ROM] Writeable=1 It's a nuissance in the sense that each time I start the Emu48, I should close a nuew untitled e49 document instead of opening my last saved one. *I may be dreaming but, << did any of you like me, notice a 48GX color > resemblance in the 9G model ?> Even though I couldn't appreciate the > upper > left violet labels well, let me add I liked the golden-red-blue colour > combination it seems to have, very much. ==== ==== The target of the program is to count pulses all the time (at the main task), and every 10 seconds to perform some calculation. DATE TIME << @ alarm task every 10 seconds. . . > 10 UBASE UVAL 8192 * 4 ->LIST STOALARM DO @ main task. . . UNTIL KEY END How to perform that? Any help will be appreciated. Tal ==== > anyone know what is key for log of base 2 in 48g, or 32sii ?? > Base on y register > Expression on x register << LOG SWAP LOG / EVAL > LOGG ENTER STO I mean ><< LN SWAP LN / EVAL > LOGG ENTER STO >Soryy! The base of the log being used doesn't matter ln(x)/ln(y) is the same as log10(x)/log10(y) is the same as logN(x)/logN(y). -- Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth) ==== Alain Robillard is porting FEM48 v5.0 to the HP49 and is having some problems with an unsupported entry. The following program evaluates a program on level 1 and turns the display off to save execution time. Could somebody tell me what enrty could be used instead of the unsupported #1D44? Maybe it is as simple as DispOff ???? (if this is supported) Caspar * EvalFast * * FAST evaluation (turns LCD off) :: CODE GOSBVL =SAVPTR GOSBVL =DisableIntr GOSBVL #1D44 GOSBVL =AllowIntr GOVLNG =GETPTRLOOP ENDCODE ERRSET EVAL ERRTRAP :: CODE GOSBVL =SAVPTR GOSBVL =DispOn GOVLNG =GETPTRLOOP ENDCODE ERRJMP ; CODE GOSBVL =SAVPTR GOSBVL =DispOn GOVLNG =GETPTRLOOP ENDCODE ; ==== Alain Robillard is porting FEM48 v5.0 to the HP49 and is having some >problems with an unsupported entry. >The following program evaluates a program on level 1 and turns the display >off to save execution time. >Could somebody tell me what enrty could be used instead of the unsupported >#1D44? >Maybe it is as simple as DispOff ???? (if this is supported) This question was just answered. See the following threads : http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8f5fc505.0211111958.32b5ebb4%40posting. google.com http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=lvCq9.1846%24h7.670649%40reader1.news.j ippii.net The 49 entry has the address #1B1C ( ROM 1.19-6 ) aka OffNoBlush. It's a specialized routine to turn off the display without any artifacts associated with cutting the LCD power without first blanking the screen. ( nasty vertical lines or bars ) You can also use #4315 ( which consists of a GOVLNG #1B1C ) if you only want to use addresses in a stable region. ==== You can also use #4315 > ( which consists of a GOVLNG #1B1C ) if you only want to use addresses > in a stable region. stable region IS the magical word ! #1B1C was good but I was unable to make sure that it was going to be trouble free with upcoming rom versions. Alain ==== (I didn't want to reply to Alain's earlier post, because this is just guesswork, but then again it seems you could need every bit of information...) Could somebody tell me what enrty could be used instead of the unsupported > #1D44? > Maybe it is as simple as DispOff ???? (if this is supported) I dimly remember searching for that entry myself, in one context or another. IIRC it's called something like CleanDispOff. I just used DispOff without any problems. HTH & HIWC (Hope It Won't Crash ;-) Greetings Thomas ==== On my computer I do not have a serial port. All I have is USB ports and a parallel port for printers, but I dont use it at the moment. Is is possible for me to link the HP49G with my computer? ==== I would recommend you to buy a USB - RS232 Interface. These is no other way to connect to your PC, because the HP49 doesnt have an infrared port ! Bernd > On my computer I do not have a serial port. All I have is USB ports > and a parallel port for printers, but I dont use it at the moment. Is is possible for me to link the HP49G with my computer? > ==== I would recommend you to buy a USB - RS232 > Interface. > These is no other way to connect to your PC, because > the HP49 doesnt have an infrared port ! > On my computer I do not have a serial port. All I have is USB ports > and a parallel port for printers, but I dont use it at the moment. Is is possible for me to link the HP49G with my computer? > Where can I get a USB - RS232 I use a Keyspan USA-19 Adapter ( http://www.keyspan.com/products/usb/pdaadapter/ ) on my PowerMac G4 with no problems. Communication software (Kermit & Xmodem): ZTerm. HTH ==== I use a USB to serial converter, and it works just fine. Toby I would recommend you to buy a USB - RS232 > Interface. > These is no other way to connect to your PC, because > the HP49 doesnt have an infrared port ! Bernd > On my computer I do not have a serial port. All I have is USB ports > and a parallel port for printers, but I dont use it at the moment. Is is possible for me to link the HP49G with my computer? ==== my understanding is that there is not. for the EMU49 application there is a ROM file available (rom.e49). Check at www.hpcalc.org ==== Facing another problem with matrix and vector calculations... i have a quite huge fraction with a single element matrix as denominator one step prior to the final result. this matrix has to be a scalar. = > Question: how do i get the absolute value function to the equation > writer? Can't you type it in or select it from the Catalog? Just guessing, since I'm not familiar with the HPxx Equation Writer. -- ==== Can you bring us the example (or smaller equivalent) here. I did not understand your question ??? Facing another problem with matrix and vector calculations... > i have a quite huge fraction with a single element matrix as > denominator one step prior to the final result. this matrix has to be > a scalar. Question: how do i get the absolute value function to the equation > writer? ==== I am a new h-p 49g user (running ROM version 1.19-6). I have been learning to use the calculator with the help of Gilberto Urroz's _Science and engineering mathematics with the hp 49 g volume 1_. I seem to be doing something wrong while attempting to generate a table of values for a function. The function is << -> x 'IFTE(x>0, x^2-1,2*x-1)'>. Following Urroz's directions I -- choose plot-type function in the Plot Setup dialogue; enter the expression/function into the EQ field: 'IFTE(x>0, x^2-1,2*x-1)'; set the independent variable to 'x' (lower case x); press [NXT][OK] to accept the changes made; after returning to normal calculator display I execute TBLSET and choose a starting value and an increment; press [OK]; after returning to normal calculator display I execute TABLE; Here is the problem: the expected independent variable (x) values are generated correctly but the corresponding dependent variable (Y1) values are all -1 without exception (which is only correct for x=0). Similar problems experienced with other functions: the generated table values for the dependent variable (Y1=x^2) yields the constant 0. What have I done wrong? or Is there something wrong with the software? _____________________________________ Timothy E Roche ==== after following the install instructions, I get a THEN error instructions fm program are: 1-Unprotect the card if necessary and merge it with MERGE1 (in the Left shift- Library menu). 2-Empty the whole port 0. For instructions, read chapter 28 of the User's Guide. If there is no important data in your calculator, it is easier to initialize it by pressing simultaneously the keys ON, A and F, and answering NO. 3-Transfer the program named RECV.KER from the PC to the calculator, with XMODEM or KERMIT. 4-Then transfer the file MKRAM.KER. XMODEM is recommended, because of the huge size of this file. In order to use XMODEM, with an HP48 REV R, just use the built-in command XRECV. With an HP48 REV M or P, first send the file XRECV.PRG from the PC to the calculator, then use it as if it was the standard XRECV command. 5-On the calculator, put the name of this file on the stack. and execute the program RECV.KER. the program doesn't seem to load or execute either from port 0 or port 2, nor fram the VAR cmd or from stack. any help is much appreciated. ==== after following the install instructions, I get a THEN error instructions fm program are: 1-Unprotect the card if necessary and merge it with MERGE1 (in the Left shift- Library menu). 2-Empty the whole port 0. For instructions, read chapter 28 of the User's Guide. If there is no important data in your calculator, it is easier to initialize it by pressing simultaneously the keys ON, A and F, and answering NO. 3-Transfer the program named RECV.KER from the PC to the calculator, with XMODEM or KERMIT. 4-Then transfer the file MKRAM.KER. XMODEM is recommended, because of the huge size of this file. In order to use XMODEM, with an HP48 REV R, just use the built-in command XRECV. With an HP48 REV M or P, first send the file XRECV.PRG from the PC to the calculator, then use it as if it was the standard XRECV command. 5-On the calculator, put the name of this file on the stack. and execute the program RECV.KER. the program doesn't seem to load or execute either from port 0 or port 2, nor fram the VAR cmd or from stack. any help is much appreciated. ==== Referring to step 5, are you puttingthe *name* of the file (eg 'MKRAM.KER') on the stack and then executing RECV.KER? Or are you simply placing the *contents* of MKRAM.KER on the stack? It must be the *name*. Hope this helps, -Al > after following the install instructions, I get a THEN error instructions fm program are: > 1-Unprotect the card if necessary and merge it with MERGE1 (in the > Left shift- > Library menu). 2-Empty the whole port 0. For instructions, read chapter 28 of the > User's Guide. > If there is no important data in your calculator, it is easier to > initialize > it by pressing simultaneously the keys ON, A and F, and > answering NO. 3-Transfer the program named RECV.KER from the PC to the calculator, > with XMODEM or KERMIT. 4-Then transfer the file MKRAM.KER. XMODEM is recommended, because of > the > huge size of this file. In order to use XMODEM, with an HP48 REV R, > just use > the built-in command XRECV. With an HP48 REV M or P, first send the > file > XRECV.PRG from the PC to the calculator, then use it as if it was the > standard > XRECV command. 5-On the calculator, put the name of this file on the stack. > and execute the program RECV.KER. > the program doesn't seem to load or execute either from port 0 or port > 2, nor fram the VAR cmd or from stack. any help is much appreciated. -- It aint what ya don't know but what ya know that aint so that can get you in trouble. - P. Thomas ==== Hope this helps: -Merge memory of port 1: MERGE1 -Transfer MKRAM.KER and store it: B STO -Transfer RECV.KER and store it: A STO -Put the name 'B' on level 1, and press A key This works ==== sin(x^2). Well, that looked easy. It's not. I guess calculators don't like to integrate trig functions if the argument isn't linear. I tried TLIN and so on, and nothing wanted to linearize it. Integrals.com says that the answer is sin(x^3)3, but I'm not sure if I believe that. My log tables don't have this one, either. Anybody have any ideas? Bill ==== > sin(x^2). Well, that looked easy. It's not. I guess calculators don't like to integrate trig functions > if the argument isn't linear. I tried TLIN and so on, and nothing > wanted to linearize it. Calculators don't handle symbolic manipulation of special functions yet. They'll get there, eventually. > Integrals.com says that the answer is sin(x^3)3, but I'm not sure if > I believe that. Good, because it's wrong :-) sin(x^2) is not the correct syntax (it means sin*x^2). I get the correct answer involving the Fresnel sine integral if I use Sin[x^2]. In other words, there is no answer in terms of elementary functions. In general, the antiderivative of Sin[x^a] involves incomplete gamma functions (or exponential integrals of the first kind, however you want to look at it). -- ==== > sin(x^2). Well, that looked easy. It's not. I guess calculators don't like to integrate trig functions > if the argument isn't linear. I tried TLIN and so on, and nothing > wanted to linearize it. Integrals.com says that the answer is sin(x^3)3, but I'm not sure if > I believe that. My log tables don't have this one, either. That's a Fresnel integral.. it has no closed form antiderivative. Look upon it as the imaginary part of the exp(x^2) integral.. And you must have entered it wrongly at ingerals.com... If you enter Sine[x^2], the answer returned is: a.FresnelS[x/a] with a = Sqrt[PI/2], and FresnelS the Fresnel Sine integral ==== A story about my hp 41c and 82104a card reader. 82104A card reader for the HP 41. It describes very well, dis-assembly, repair and re-assembly of the card reader for purposes of the 'melting' drive wheel that afflicts these repaired reader. If it doesn't work properly, Dave mentions the cams that operate the 'fork' springs in the reader head. My reader has for some time given 'malfunction' a lot when reading/writing/verifying cards. There are two plastic cams. One has a 'tip' on it, the other, unless mine had a tip that broke off, has no 'tip', is just a round projection in the card path that operates the second of the two 'fork' springs. I think mine just wore too small from years of use. I'm writing this to give the benefit of my experience. My second cam wasn't lifting the 'fork' spring enough to make contact with the upper printed circuit board. (Some readers have copper springs and pc boards, mine is Gold!) What was needed was to add to the cam, the spring, or the pc board so that contact would be made by the traversing card. Epoxy on the cam was my first idea. A bad one. I'd suggest not messing with the cam. Putting solder on the spring would be a bad idea as springs get their characteristics from heating and cooling. What worked for me was to add solder to the pc board 'pad' that the spring contacted when the cam pushes it up. You have to put just enough solder to make the contact work, but not too much to make it contact all the time. I've taken my reader apart a few times. To put #6 'O'-rings on the drive spindle. The 5 wires that 'plug' into the 'motherboard' of the reader are tinned wires. After plugging and unplugging a few times they can lose their tinning and fray. I re-tinned two frayed wires. I also cut a reader card to slide into the space between the upper pc board and reader head to make sure the 'fork' springs were strait, it is easy to bend these springs, even a little may make the tips not be strait on the contact pad. My reader is now working again. ==== > Given: Let a, b, c be positive integers and (a-b)^2+(b-c)^2+(c-a)^2 = 218 Problem: Find a, b, c under these constrains so that (a+b)^2+(b+c)^2+(c+a)^2 is minimized. By the obvious symmetry, we may assume a <= b <= c, so we may set a = b-u and c = b+v where u and v are nonnegative. With a little algebra, the constraint becomes u^2 + u*v + v^2 = 109, where 0 <= u and 0 <= v. With a little trial and error, one may show that u = 5 and v = 7, or u = 7 and v = 5, are the only integral solutions. ==== > Given: Let a, b, c be positive integers and (a-b)^2+(b-c)^2+(c-a)^2 = 218 Problem: Find a, b, c under these constrains so that (a+b)^2+(b+c)^2+(c+a)^2 is minimized. ==== I should have said in earlier post: XModem Connectivity Kit I have been working on the HP Connectivity Kit for the HP49 and wish to expand it for the HP48 (as I did with Debug4x). I am building a XModem server to work with it on the 48. Cyrille sent me the Delphi source code that he had, but he believes he had previously sent a more recent version to someone (he forgot who). If you have the code would you please contact me. You apparently have the only copy of the most recent source code! ==== I was forced to by a quality 5V 3A power supply (~$50US). No one to blame, but me. I was lazy and did only surface test on the malfunctioned device at work for which I hoped the new power supply will be the solution. Hmm. The device turned up to be broken also :( Anyway, I am trying to find the use for the power supply. Should I use some means to lower the output voltage to 4.5V, if I want to use the unit for powring of the HP48G? Will the 5V power hurt the HP48? Yes, it is a big overkill, but I do not have any other ideas for usage of the unit... Robert Tiismus ==== I wouln't recommend running the HP from 5 volts. It would be very easy to drop it to aroung 4.5volts anyway. Thne simplist method would be this: 5v+ --->|----To Calc gnd --------- with the arrow being a standard rectifier diode, which shuold drop around .6 volts. There are a number of issues with this however. The supply ir rated for 5v output @ 3A. The HP might draw 1/20th of that. Depending on the quality of the supply, the output may be higher then 5v when powering the HP and also electrically noisy - do you have a CRO to check? Your power supply sounds expensive which leads me to think it's switchmode. If it is I wouldn't bother tring to use it for a HP. Switchers' *hate* low output currents. Just buy a $5 wall wart. It should do the trick. If your power supply is linear read on. All my circuit does is drop the output by .6 volts (roughly). it doesn't clamp the output. I'd recommend doing this: Current limiting resistor (~15 ohms) 5v+ ---~~~~--------------------------------To Calc ^ 4.7volt zenner diode | | = capacitor (couple microfarad) | | gnd -----------------------------------------to calc this will basically guarentee the voltage wont exceed 4.7 volts - which should be OK for the HP. Better yet it will smooth most noise. The capacitor value isn't critial. As long as it's greater then 2 microfarad it should be fine. Hope this helps, Al Borowski www.alborowski.tk > I was forced to by a quality 5V 3A power supply (~$50US). No one to > blame, but me. I was lazy and did only surface test on the malfunctioned > device at work for which I hoped the new power supply will be the > solution. Hmm. The device turned up to be broken also :( Anyway, I am > trying to find the use for the power supply. Should I use some means to > lower the output voltage to 4.5V, if I want to use the unit for powring > of the HP48G? Will the 5V power hurt the HP48? Yes, it is a big > overkill, but I do not have any other ideas for usage of the unit... ==== Brand new Alkaline batteries have about 1.6 volts, I have seen higher. Multiply that x3 you get 4.8V, I seriusly doubt 0.2 V more will do any harm. But if you want to play it safe, just get a diode and put it in series with the output of the power supply, that will lower the voltage by about .5-.7 volts. > I was forced to by a quality 5V 3A power supply (~$50US). No one to > blame, but me. I was lazy and did only surface test on the malfunctioned > device at work for which I hoped the new power supply will be the > solution. Hmm. The device turned up to be broken also :( Anyway, I am > trying to find the use for the power supply. Should I use some means to > lower the output voltage to 4.5V, if I want to use the unit for powring > of the HP48G? Will the 5V power hurt the HP48? Yes, it is a big > overkill, but I do not have any other ideas for usage of the unit... ==== I just found a cellular phone charger that outputs 4.5V, 0.4A. I was thinking about using it for the HP 48GX. I just do not know enough about electronics... All I know is that three AAA batteries output 4.5V, ?A. I > I was forced to by a quality 5V 3A power supply (~$50US). No one to > blame, but me. I was lazy and did only surface test on the malfunctioned > device at work for which I hoped the new power supply will be the > solution. Hmm. The device turned up to be broken also :( Anyway, I am > trying to find the use for the power supply. Should I use some means to > lower the output voltage to 4.5V, if I want to use the unit for powring > of the HP48G? Will the 5V power hurt the HP48? Yes, it is a big > overkill, but I do not have any other ideas for usage of the unit... Robert Tiismus > ==== The Alkalines put out at most 4.5V when they are fresh and not under load or very cold. When they give they juice to the HP 48 they gradually go lower on their voltage, that's how the calculator knows to lit the annuciator telling that the batteries are low. The internal resistance of the alkalines differ from other power sources so you are on your own risking the very life of your dear friend... > I just found a cellular phone charger that outputs 4.5V, 0.4A. I was > thinking about using it for the HP 48GX. I just do not know enough about > electronics... All I know is that three AAA batteries output 4.5V, ?A. I was forced to by a quality 5V 3A power supply (~$50US). No one to > blame, but me. I was lazy and did only surface test on the malfunctioned > device at work for which I hoped the new power supply will be the > solution. Hmm. The device turned up to be broken also :( Anyway, I am > trying to find the use for the power supply. Should I use some means to > lower the output voltage to 4.5V, if I want to use the unit for powring > of the HP48G? Will the 5V power hurt the HP48? Yes, it is a big > overkill, but I do not have any other ideas for usage of the unit... Robert Tiismus ==== How can I get Debug4x? > I have been working on the HP Connectivity Kit for the HP49 and wish to expand it for the HP48 (as I did with Debug4x). I am > building a XModem server to work with it on the 48. Cyrille sent me the Delphi source code that he had, but he believes he had previously sent a more recent version to someone (he > forgot who). If you have the code would you please contact me. You apparently have the only copy of the most recent source code! ==== I'm looking for a user manual for HP20s. ==== I have the HP-48G Graphing calculator, and im a new user. How can I save equations in the Solve equation part. Whenever I open the Solve equation old equatuin is in the EQ part. When I try to edit it, new equation replaces the old one, and the old one is lost. I heard that when I press solve, the new ==== You should give a name to your equations, that is, STOre them into a variable, then you can STOre that name in EQ. EQ can also hold a { list of names } I have the HP-48G Graphing calculator, and im a new user. How can I save > equations in the Solve equation part. Whenever I open the Solve equation ==== http://groups.google.com/groups?&selm=111740004%40hpcvra.cv.hp.com Yes, I read them when they were new in the early nineties. Unfortunately I never had the chance to meet him. However, I was lucky to meet Dennis York in 1999 when I was in Corvallis, helping Firmware Systems on a part of their software for the Portable Datalab. I had my Omnibook 800CT taken with me, but there were problems to get my nic to work under NT. I don't remember if it was Saturday or Sunday, but either Vern Lindsay or Ning Zhang asked Dennis if he could help. Since it was weekend, he came in his tennis dress. Others may have Nike or some other logos on their clothes, Dennis had HP logos on them:-) 'Mr Omnibook' lend me his nic for one or two days, until I got one from Firmware. That's one of my extremely shortened stories related to HP Raymond ==== Hola amigos HPeros mis preguntas son si estan bien escritos los siguientes codigos en lenguaje Ensamblador (ML), todos los e probado y funcionan pero no se si estare haciendo bien. Los codigos son para ensamblarlos con MASD en la HP49G. Los dos siguientes programas hacen lo mismo: (1 2 3 => 1 3) CODE A=DAT1 A D1+10 D=D+1 A D1-5 DAT1=A A LOOP ENDCODE @ CODE A=DAT1 A D1+5 DAT1=A A LOOP ENDCODE @ Mi pregunta es si ambos estan bien escritos y en el primer programa (D=D+1 A) Ke hace exactamente esto por lo que e visto esto libera cinco nibbles de la pila si no me equivoco, pero exactamente en que casos se deberia usar y si fuera posible un ejmplo. El siguiente programa hace (1 2 3 => 1 3 3) CODE C=DAT1 A D1+5 DAT1=C A D1+5 DAT1=C A LOOP ENDCODE @ Esta bien escrito? Los dos siguientes duplican un objeto (1 => 1 1) CODE D=D-1 A A=DAT1 A D1-5 DAT1=A A LOOP ENDCODE @ CODE A=DAT1 A D1-5 DAT1=A A LOOP ENDCODE @ En el primer ejemplo ke hace (D=D-1 A) y en ke casos se debe usary si fuera posible un ejemplo y si estan bien escritos los dos. Y por ultimo como se usa el comando ( RclAssembly ) Si alguien me podria ayudar o guiarme le agradeceria mucho, ya se como dibujar algo en la pantalla o como ingresar texto pero por ahora quiero dedicarme bien al manejo de la pila y al uso del teclado, el uso del teclado lo se pero mas o menos. ==== Los programas no s.8e si est.87n o no bien escritos, pero el texto deja mucho que desear tanto en ortograf.92a como en sintaxis y puntuaci.97n. Perodona la bronca, pero no me parece la mejor manera de pasear nuestro idioma por el mundo. Ra.9cl ==== Cierto es... Toby > Los programas no s.8e si est.87n o no bien escritos, pero el texto deja mucho > que desear tanto en ortograf.92a como en sintaxis y puntuaci.97n. Perodona la > bronca, pero no me parece la mejor manera de pasear nuestro idioma por el > mundo. Ra.9cl ==== anyone know what is key for log of base 2 in 48g, or 32sii ?? thx anthony ==== > anyone know what is key for log of base 2 in 48g, or 32sii ?? thx > anthony I don't feel so bad now -- the TI-89/92+ discussion group is not the only one with such posts ;-) Anyway, to answer the question, log_base_b(a) = ln(a)/ln(b). Of course it should be easy to create a user-defined function for log_base_2(x). neighbors (I live in Champaign as well). -- ==== > anyone know what is key for log of base 2 in 48g, or 32sii ?? Base on y register Expression on x register << LOG SWAP LOG / EVAL > LOGG ENTER STO Press VAR. There you go! ==== > anyone know what is key for log of base 2 in 48g, or 32sii ?? > Base on y register > Expression on x register << LOG SWAP LOG / EVAL > LOGG ENTER STO I mean << LN SWAP LN / EVAL > LOGG ENTER STO Soryy! Press VAR. There you go! ==== > anyone know what is key for log of base 2 in 48g, or 32sii ?? > I think the key is... learning Maths ;-) ln N log N= -------- 2 ln 2 ==== Emu28, a new emulator emulating the HP18C and HP28C hardware. Emu28 for Win32 base on the famous Emu48 emulator and is published under the GPL. You can find it on my homepage at http://privat.swol.de/ChristophGiesselink/. This emulator can't emulate the HP28S, because the HP28S use a different hardware. Like all my distributed emulators, Emu28 comes _without_ ROM images. I have no license to distribute them. Look at the Emu28 page about the abilities to get an image form a real HP28C please. I won't answer any questions about sending a ROM image. Please remember, I made this emulator in my free time and I don't like giving support. I'm glad when someone of you find a better way to make a ROM image upload. If you find a better way, please send me the details that I can publish them for others. Christoph Giesselink ==== > Now I look *my* calculator and I feel it works like I want > The suggestion I'd like put on the table, is, what about customizable > menus for doing the integration of installed programs easier? > Maybe you could post what you did. I am looking for doing some serious remodeling of my 49 & could use some ideas. ==== Maybe you could post what you did. I am looking for doing some > serious remodeling of my 49 & could use some ideas. I don't know if posting will help... For getting these menus work, you will need have instaled other libraries, like Erable, Calendar, etc, etc, etc... This is the MTH softkeys menu. :: ' :: NoExitAction { { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF17B74E1BAB7D13AB4E1BAB5D1B264E1FFFFF1 :: TakeOver { xXQ2 xXNUM xADDT xSUBT xMULT xDIV1 xDIV2 xIDIV2 xPOW xSQRT xneg xinv { ! xFACTORIAL } xEXPAND xRSIM xASIM xFACTOR { COLLECT xFCTR } xVXORDER { SUBST xEXEC } xSOLVE } DoMenuKey ; } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF1BBD8C139ADA1BA8DC1BBADA1BBADA1FFFFF1 :: TakeOver ROMPTR 4CA 9 ; } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF176C6F17575F17644F17575F17545C1FFFFF1 :: TakeOver { x% x%T x%CH xFACT xABS xRND xSIGN xTRNC xFP xFLOOR xIP xCEIL xMOD xMANT xXPON xDÙR xRÙD } DoMenuKey ; } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF17AB8E1B39AE1BBA8E1BBBEE17ABE81FFFFF1 :: TakeOver { { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF1F3B3F1FD5DF1FD1BF1FD57F1F359F1FFFFF1 :: TakeOver { xre xim xabs xarg xneg xconj { } { } { } { } { } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF17AB8E1B39AE1BBA8E1BBBEE17ABE81FFFFF1 :: MenuMaker ROMPTR A9 0 DoMenuKey ; } } DoMenuKey ; } xRE xIM xCÙR xRÙC xABS xARG xSIGN xNEG xCONJ ROMPTR A8 5 ROMPTR A8 6 } DoMenuKey ; } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF17464E17555D17465E17755D17754E1FFFFF1 :: TakeOver { ID UTPNZ xUTZO xXÙZ xZÙX xUTPN xNDIST xCOMB { COMBR :: x<< xDUP xROT x+ %1 x- xSWAP xCOMB x> ; } xPERM xFACT xRAND xRDZ } DoMenuKey ; } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF1D13A91D5DBE1D55AE1D5DAE1113A91FFFFF1 :: TakeOver { x== x< x? x? xS xAND xOR xXOR xNOT xSAME xMIN xMAX xLININ } DoMenuKey ; } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF15131915DDB5151DB91BDDB51B13B51FFFFF1 :: TakeOver { { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF1F3B3F1FD5DF1FD1BF1FD57F1F359F1FFFFF1 :: TakeOver { xabs xDOTP xCROSSP { } { } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF15131915DDB5151DB91BDDB51B13B51FFFFF1 :: MenuMaker ROMPTR A9 0 DoMenuKey ; } } DoMenuKey ; } xABS xDOT xCROSS xAÙV xVÙ xÙV2 xÙV3 ROMPTR A8 5 ROMPTR A8 6 ROMPTR A8 7 } DoMenuKey ; } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF1F551F1F555F1F1B1F1F5BDF1F5BDF1FFFFF1 :: TakeOver x<< % 12 xMENU x> ; } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF17EE4C17557F176C6C175D5F17656C1FFFFF1 :: TakeOver x<< % 15 xMENU x> ; } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF1F111F1FDDBF1F11BF1FDDBF1FDDBF1FFFFF1 :: TakeOver x<< % 19 xMENU x> ; } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF172ADC1BB25F1BB2CE1BBACD172A5E1FFFFF1 :: TakeOver x<< % 21 xMENU x> ; } { } } ; DoMenuKey ; @ ***************************** And here is the RS TIME (in spanish): Ç HORA Y FECHA {{ 0.Herramientas Ç 94,02 MENU È } { 1.Calendario CALENDAR } { 2.Alarmas Ç # 737646d LIBEVAL È } { 3.Reconocer alarma ACK } { 4.Ajustar hora/fecha Ç # 737627d LIBEVAL È } { 5.Tiempo AutoOFF Ç TOFF 8192 / BÙR AutoOFF en SWAP + s + Pulsa [ENTER] o nuevo tiempo (s) INPUT2 DUP SIZE 34 S IF THEN DUP SIZE 34 SWAP SUB OBJÙ 8192 * RÙB PATH HOME SWAP 'TOFF' STO EVAL ELSE DROP END È }} 2 CHOOSE2 IF THEN EVAL END È ==== for accesing many old 48GX commands. Somehow my EMU 48 v 1.31 script corrupted... it crashes everytime after pressing the APSS (G) key... and couldn't find out which was the conflict yet. I should begin a whole new one, but I still have many libs installed and few time to deal with that technical problem. I hardly program RPL basics. Not a clue on SysRPL or ML. -- > ...or for new 49's ROM versions: When we install new libraries in our 48/49, we get a bigger and bigger > LIBRARY menu where we must look for the RAM commands in spite of they were > statistical applications or a periodic table... The APPS menu of the 49 is > an improvement, but not enough, I think. > Along last two years I've re-programmed almost all original menus of my 48. > (The new menus are grouped in two libraries of ~11000 and ~7500 bytes) Where > do I look for a Keyman's command as RclK, or for an Erable's command like > KEYEVAL, or for a ROM command like STOKEYS?... they are all together > (and in the desired order) in the menu MODES/KEYS, where they *must* be. > In this way I've integrated all the stuff of my calc, in an only interface, > and where I find every command where keyboard says. > This is not an easy task for any user: I have had learn some basics about > SysRPL for getting quick menus that also work in edit mode and other > details - and I am grateful for the help I received from Raymond H and > Now I look *my* calculator and I feel it works like I want > The suggestion I'd like put on the table, is, what about customizable > menus for doing the integration of installed programs easier? > ==== My college bookstore had these HP49s on sale for $60. A friend who knows HPs gave me a crash course with it, but I find it hard to use, and I can't get it to do certain things. What's really bugging me right now is I can't get it to integrate {sin or cos} ln(x). It keeps giving me this X(t) answer. Am I doing something wrong, or can't it do this problem? The X(t) answer means that it can't do it. Make sure you're using the correct syntax, though (e.g. you aren't trying to integrate sin(x)*ln(x), which no calculator can do). I don't have a HP49G, though, so I can't actually try it out. ==== You«re not doing anything wrong, but I think that you have to make a substitution of x(t) - but you can try to read the Why does the HP 49 sub in Xt into integrations-topic and Integration Cos (ln x)-topic and see if you understand it... But I«m also very new to the HP 49, so I hope that some kindly person, will answer your question, once again......... Or at least refer to some good litterature about integrating on the HP.... ==== expression #1d44. > what a coincidence, I'm also looking for replacement for the unsupported > #1D44. On the 49G, there is a similar entry but, unfortunately, it is > unsupported (also) and unstable (snip). CODE > GOSBVL =SAVPTR > GOSBVL =DisableIntr > GOSBVL #1D44 > GOSBVL =AllowIntr > GOVLNG =GETPTRLOOP > ENDCODE ==== :: AtUserStack CODE GOSBVL =SAVPTR GOSBVL =DisableIntr GOSBVL 01B1C A=0 W GOSBVL =clkspd C=B A CSRB A C=C+A A A=0 W A=C A GOSBVL =DispOn GOSBVL =AllowIntr ASL W P= 5 GOVLNG =PUSHhxsLoop ENDCODE HXS>% ; @ NB: The 48 address #54371 (i.e. hex>%) is at :1:62D1D in the 49. HPCC #1046 ==== > Flash reserved for the operating system. Basically I'm thinking of a > way to store a random number there to replace the nonexistant internal > serial number found in the Chinese made calcs. > But your idea has possibilities too, thanks Even more complicated would be to store the number in flash and then purge it, it will still be there but you will need a special tool to get it. The drawback of this is that it may be deleted when you write something to flash again. -- ir. P.F.Geelhoed Delft University of Technology Laboratory for Aero & Hydrodynamics Leeghwaterstraat 21, 2628 CA Delft, The Netherlands +31-15-2786656 / +31-15-2782947 (fax) p.f.geelhoed@wbmt.tudelft.nl ==== In the course of building an XModem server for the HP48, I decoded the ROM routine STR2OBJ from the HP49 (I attach my version). STR2OBJ gets a HPHP48-R...... string. If the string part is longer than $FF, it is not converted. Why does STR2OBJ quit if the length is bigger? In order to make STR2OBJ function for XModem, I had to make a change to line 32 of the attached. The line I changed is marked in the file but it looks like this: C=0 A C=C-1 B % <======= if I change to C=C-1 A everything works!!!!! This changes the test so lengths < $FFFFF all work! Here is the code: * string: HPHP48-R plus object on the stack * try to make a proper object and return on stack NULLNAME STR2OBJ ( disassembled from 2F061, FPTR 1 208=1:4A567 ) :: ?IsHPHP NOT?SEMI DUPLEN$ VERSTRING LEN$ SWAPOVER#- #<3 caseDROP ( pruned HPHP48, leaves -R so <3 means nothing left ) CODEM % disassembled from %1:4A594 GOSBVL POP# % has length of incoming verstring on stack A=A+A A % make nibble count R1=A W GOSBVL SAVPTR A=DAT1 A % get the object pointer R2=A W D1=A D1+5 C=DAT1 A % total incoming length AD1EX C=C+A A R0=C W % R0 points just after object C=R1 W A=A+C A % add verstring length (nibbles) D0=A D0+5 A=DAT0 A % point at prologue in string, get value D1=A A=DAT1 A % Read signature of prologue routine LC(5) =PRLG ?C=A A -> .tag2 % go if a prologue LC 80000 ?C<=A A -> .tag1 % go if 1st nibbles of prologue routine point to RAM D1=A A=DAT1 A % else retrieve what that points at LC(5) =PRLG ?C=A A -> .tag2 % go if that is a prologue *.tag1 GOVLNG GPPushFLoop % GETPTR, Push FALSE, Loop *.tag2 GOSBVL SAFESKIPOB % found a prologue GOC .tag1 CD0EX % A->just after the prologue A=R0 W % just after the containing string A=A-C A R3=A W % the total length of ... part C=0 A C=C-1 B % why B? cuts off > $FF strings ********** ?C .tag1 % go if item length > 000FF C=R1 W % this code prunes the length to proper size A=A+C A % ... + verstring length A+10 A % plus string prologue + string length count C=R0 W R0=A W A=R2 W D1=A C=C-A A B=C A C=R1 W A=A+C A D0=A D0+10 C=R0 W B=B-C A C=B A GOSBVL MOVEDOWN C=R3 W AD0EX A=A+C A C=R0 W GOSBVL MOVERSD A=B A D0=A A=R0 W C=DAT0 A C=C-A A DAT0=C A GOVLNG GPPushTLoop RTNSXM ENDCODE NOT?SEMI ?ROMPTR> ; ==== Given: Let a, b, c be positive integers and (a-b)^2+(b-c)^2+(c-a)^2 = 218 Problem: Find a, b, c under these constrains so that (a+b)^2+(b+c)^2+(c+a)^2 ==== > Given: Let a, b, c be positive integers and (a-b)^2+(b-c)^2+(c-a)^2 = 218 Problem: Find a, b, c under these constrains so that (a+b)^2+(b+c)^2+(c+a)^2 is minimized. By the obvious symmetry, we may assume a <= b <= c, so we may set a = b-u and c = b+v where u and v are nonnegative. With a little algebra, the constraint becomes u^2 + u*v + v^2 = 109, where 0 <= u and 0 <= v. With a little trial and error, one may show that u = 5 and v = 7, or u = 7 and v = 5, are the only integral solutions. ==== Have you tried with SOLVE (the hard way) or PLOT it and TRACE it (the easy way). ==== > Given: Let a, b, c be positive integers and (a-b)^2+(b-c)^2+(c-a)^2 = 218 Problem: Find a, b, c under these constrains so that (a+b)^2+(b+c)^2+(c+a)^2 is minimized. Yes it is possible! ;) ==== I should have said in earlier post: XModem Connectivity Kit I have been working on the HP Connectivity Kit for the HP49 and wish to expand it for the HP48 (as I did with Debug4x). I am building a XModem server to work with it on the 48. Cyrille sent me the Delphi source code that he had, but he believes he had previously sent a more recent version to someone (he forgot who). If you have the code would you please contact me. You apparently have the only copy of the most recent source code ==== I wouln't recommend running the HP from 5 volts. It would be very easy to drop it to aroung 4.5volts anyway. Thne simplist method would be this: 5v+ --->|----To Calc gnd --------- with the arrow being a standard rectifier diode, which shuold drop around .6 volts. There are a number of issues with this however. The supply ir rated for 5v output @ 3A. The HP might draw 1/20th of that. Depending on the quality of the supply, the output may be higher then 5v when powering the HP and also electrically noisy - do you have a CRO to check? Your power supply sounds expensive which leads me to think it's switchmode. If it is I wouldn't bother tring to use it for a HP. Switchers' *hate* low output currents. Just buy a $5 wall wart. It should do the trick. If your power supply is linear read on. All my circuit does is drop the output by .6 volts (roughly). it doesn't clamp the output. I'd recommend doing this: Current limiting resistor (~15 ohms) 5v+ ---~~~~--------------------------------To Calc ^ 4.7volt zenner diode | | = capacitor (couple microfarad) | | gnd -----------------------------------------to calc this will basically guarentee the voltage wont exceed 4.7 volts - which should be OK for the HP. Better yet it will smooth most noise. The capacitor value isn't critial. As long as it's greater then 2 microfarad it should be fine. Hope this helps, Al Borowski www.alborowski.tk > I was forced to by a quality 5V 3A power supply (~$50US). No one to > blame, but me. I was lazy and did only surface test on the malfunctioned > device at work for which I hoped the new power supply will be the > solution. Hmm. The device turned up to be broken also :( Anyway, I am > trying to find the use for the power supply. Should I use some means to > lower the output voltage to 4.5V, if I want to use the unit for powring > of the HP48G? Will the 5V power hurt the HP48? Yes, it is a big > overkill, but I do not have any other ideas for usage of the unit... ==== Running the Hp48sx, 48gx & 49g on up to 6V do not provide any problems, however I would not recommend it. I accidently discovered this when a friend of mine build a unregulated power supply. Using 2200uF (Probably a overkill, 1000uF is even more than enough)filter capacitors proved to get voltage under control and a transformer rated to supply 5.5V on the secondary terminals, and a expected voltage drop of 1.2V (0.6V *2) across the rectifier bridge. The transformer was however rated 220/5.5V and the local mains supply was delivering 230V. Furthermore did he use a (more expensive) germanium rectifier bridge with a much lower voltage drop than the usual silicone diode bridge. We mesured a voltage of 6.2V on the output of his supply. (After he already used it some time) Using unregulated power supplies for these expensive low voltage devices are foolish though. Since the LM317 regulater ic's are cheap and easy to design power supplies for 4.5V using the data sheets. In short, whenever you do use a power supply, make sure it is a regulated supply to ensure stable output during mains variations. Given the cost of these smart calculators its surely sensible to go and buy/build a proper power supply device for a fraction of the cost of your HP :) ==== Brand new Alkaline batteries have about 1.6 volts, I have seen higher. > overkill, but I do not have any other ideas for usage of the unit... Robert Tiismus > ==== The Alkalines put out at most 4.5V when they are fresh and not under load or very cold. When they give they juice to the HP 48 they gradually go lower on their voltage, that's how the calculator knows to lit the annuciator telling that the batteries are low. The internal resistance of the alkalines differ from other power sources so you are on your own risking the very life of your dear friend... > I just found a cellular phone charger that outputs 4.5V, 0.4A. I was > thinking about using it for the HP 48GX. I just do not know enough about > electronics... All I know is that three AAA batteries output 4.5V, ?A. 96 ==== How can I get Debug4x? > I have been working on the HP Connectivity Kit for the HP49 and wish to expand it for the HP48 (as I did with Debug4x). I am > building a XModem server to work with it on the 48. Cyrille sent me the Delphi source code that he had, but he believes he had previously sent a more recent version to someone (he > forgot who). If you have the code would you please contact me. You apparently have the only copy of the most recent source code! ==== ==== I have the HP-48G Graphing calculator, and im a new user. How can I save equations in the Solve equation part. Whenever I open the Solve equation old eqatuin is in the EQ part. When I try to edit it, new equation replaces the old one, and the old one is lost. I heard that when I press solve, the new Vedran Mikac, vedran.mikac@proas.hr ==== You should give a name to your equations, that is, STOre them into a variable, then you can STOre that name in EQ. EQ can also hold a { list of names } I have the HP-48G Graphing calculator, and im a new user. How can I save > equations in the Solve equation part. Whenever I open the Solve equation old > eqatuin is in the EQ part. When I try to edit it, new equation replaces the > old one, and the old one is lost. I heard that when I press solve, the new ==== Is he talking of Bernie Musch? Yes, he is. These were Dennis York's fond words for him: Yes, I read them when they were new in the early nineties. Unfortunately I never had the chance to meet him. However, I was lucky to meet Dennis York in 1999 when I was in Corvallis, helping Firmware Systems on a part of their software for the Portable Datalab. I had my Omnibook 800CT taken with me, but there were problems to get my nic to work under NT. I don't remember if it was Saturday or Sunday, but either Vern Lindsay or Ning Zhang asked Dennis if he could help. Since it was weekend, he came in his tennis dress. Others may have Nike or some other logos on their clothes, Dennis had HP logos on them:-) 'Mr Omnibook' lend me his nic for one or two days, until I got one from Firmware. That's one of my extremely shortened stories related to HP Raymond ==== Hola amigos HPeros mis preguntas son si estan bien escritos los siguientes codigos en lenguaje Ensamblador (ML), todos los e probado y funcionan pero no se si estare haciendo bien. Los codigos son para ensamblarlos con MASD en la HP49G. Los dos siguientes programas hacen lo mismo: (1 2 3 => 1 3) CODE A=DAT1 A D1+10 D=D+1 A D1-5 DAT1=A A LOOP ENDCODE @ CODE A=DAT1 A D1+5 DAT1=A A LOOP ENDCODE @ Mi pregunta es si ambos estan bien escritos y en el primer programa (D=D+1 A) Ke hace exactamente esto por lo que e visto esto libera cinco nibbles de la pila si no me equivoco, pero exactamente en que casos se deberia usar y si fuera posible un ejmplo. El siguiente programa hace (1 2 3 => 1 3 3) CODE C=DAT1 A D1+5 DAT1=C A D1+5 DAT1=C A LOOP ENDCODE @ Esta bien escrito? Los dos siguientes duplican un objeto (1 => 1 1) CODE D=D-1 A A=DAT1 A D1-5 DAT1=A A LOOP ENDCODE @ CODE A=DAT1 A D1-5 DAT1=A A LOOP ENDCODE @ En el primer ejemplo ke hace (D=D-1 A) y en ke casos se debe usary si fuera posible un ejemplo y si estan bien escritos los dos. Y por ultimo como se usa el comando ( RclAssembly ) Si alguien me podria ayudar o guiarme le agradeceria mucho, ya se como dibujar algo en la pantalla o como ingresar texto pero por ahora quiero dedicarme bien al manejo de la pila y al uso del teclado, el uso del teclado lo se pero mas o menos. ==== Los programas no s.8e si est.87n o no bien escritos, pero el texto deja mucho que desear tanto en ortograf.92a como en sintaxis y puntuaci.97n. Perodona la bronca, pero no me parece la mejor manera de pasear nuestro idioma por el mundo. Ra.9cl ==== Cierto es... Toby > Los programas no s.8e si est.87n o no bien escritos, pero el texto deja mucho > que desear tanto en ortograf.92a como en sintaxis y puntuaci.97n. Perodona la > bronca, pero no me parece la mejor manera de pasear nuestro idioma por el > mundo. Ra.9cl ==== anyone know what is key for log of base 2 in 48g, or 32sii ?? > anyone know what is key for log of base 2 in 48g, or 32sii ?? LN 2 LN / -Joe- Joe's solutions are very concise and elegant as always. That'll do for the particular base 2 log he asked for. What about this general solution inspired by Joe's? LN XROOT LN (Number and base assumed to be on level Y and X, respectively). Gerson. ==== > LN XROOT LN (Number and base assumed to be on level Y and X, respectively). Wow, very cool! I've never seen that before! Much nicer then LN SWAP LN SWAP /. And LN XROOT LN is even more accurate too, at least for these powers of 2, log base 2: 16, 19, 21, 24, 26, 29, 31, 34, 36, 39... and less accurate for no powers of 2 below 40. It doesn't fare so well on powers of 3, log base 3. How would one go about determining which rutine is more accurate in general? -jkh- ==== > LN XROOT LN > (Number and base assumed to be on level Y and X, respectively). Wow, very cool! I've never seen that before! Much nicer then LN SWAP LN SWAP /. And LN XROOT LN is even more accurate too, at least for these powers of 2, >log base 2: 16, 19, 21, 24, 26, 29, 31, 34, 36, 39... and less accurate for >no powers of 2 below 40. It doesn't fare so well on powers of 3, log base >3. How would one go about determining which rutine is more accurate in >general? > The logarithm of N to base b may be calculated as (lnN)/(lnb) which is equivalent to ln [N^(1/lnb)] (applying one of the Laws of Logarithms) or in the HP48 notation: 'LN(XROOT(LN(b),N))' The drawback is a increase in running time - it would take about twice as much time to run - because the XROOT operation requires at least one LN and one EXP calculation. As of the accuracy, I think is quite acceptable though I have not thought about it. Now, honestly, I discovered this by chance, playing with the calculator. I was trying to obtain a shorter program when I tried these three strokes. ==== > LN XROOT LN > (Number and base assumed to be on level Y and X, respectively). Wow, very cool! I've never seen that before! Much nicer then LN SWAP LN SWAP /. And LN XROOT LN is even more accurate too, at least for these powers of 2, >log base 2: 16, 19, 21, 24, 26, 29, 31, 34, 36, 39... and less accurate for >no powers of 2 below 40. It doesn't fare so well on powers of 3, log base >3. How would one go about determining which rutine is more accurate in >general? > The logarithm of N to base b may be calculated as (lnN)/(lnb) which is equivalent to ln [N^(1/lnb)] (applying one of the Laws of Logarithms) or in the HP48 notation: 'LN(XROOT(LN(b),N))' The drawback is a decrease in execution time (some scores of microseconds) because the XROOT operation requires at least one LN and one EXP calculation. As of the accuracy, I think is quite acceptable though I have not thought about. Now, honestly, I discovered this by chance, playing with the calculator. I was trying to obtain a shorter program when I tried these three strokes. Gerson. ==== > anyone know what is key for log of base 2 in 48g, or 32sii ?? thx > anthony I don't feel so bad now -- the TI-89/92+ discussion group is not the only one with such posts ;-) Anyway, to answer the question, log_base_b(a) = ln(a)/ln(b). Of course it should be easy to create a user-defined function for log_base_2(x). neighbors (I live in Champaign as well). -- ==== of course, there is not a built command to do that, but the power of programming does that: RPN program: << LN SWAP LN SWAP RATIO > ALG program: << -> L B 'LN(L)/LN(B)' > both: NumberTarget NumberBase --> NumberResult or SymbolicExpression they are controlled by flags -2 and -3, I guess I hopr this helps :) ==== > anyone know what is key for log of base 2 in 48g, or 32sii ?? > Base on y register Expression on x register << LOG SWAP LOG / EVAL > LOGG ENTER STO Press VAR. There you go! Aaron ==== > anyone know what is key for log of base 2 in 48g, or 32sii ?? thx > anthony Base on y register > Expression on x register << LOG SWAP LOG / EVAL > LOGG ENTER STO I mean << LN SWAP LN / EVAL > LOGG ENTER STO Soryy! Press VAR. There you go! ==== > I mean > << LN SWAP LN / EVAL > LOGG ENTER STO > Soryy! Don't be *soryy*, it's equivalent: LOG(x) = ln(x)/ln(10) so LOG(x)/LOG(y)=(ln(x)/ln(10))/(ln(y)/ln(10))=ln(n)/ln(y) ==== Aaron Toponce escribi.97 en el mensaje > << LOG SWAP LOG / EVAL > LOGG ENTER STO I mean > << LN SWAP LN / EVAL > LOGG ENTER STO > Soryy! Both programs work ==== > anyone know what is key for log of base 2 in 48g, or 32sii ?? > I think the key is... learning Maths ;-) ln N log N= -------- 2 ln 2 ==== Emu28, a new emulator emulating the HP18C and HP28C hardware. Emu28 for Win32 base on the famous Emu48 emulator and is published under the GPL. You can find it on my homepage at http://privat.swol.de/ChristophGiesselink/. This emulator can't emulate the HP28S, because the HP28S use a different hardware. Like all my distributed emulators, Emu28 comes _without_ ROM images. I have no license to distribute them. Look at the Emu28 page about the abilities to get an image form a real HP28C please. I won't answer any questions about sending a ROM image. Please remember, I made this emulator in my free time and I don't like giving support. I'm glad when someone of you find a better way to make a ROM image upload. If you find a better way, please send me the details that I can publish them for others. Christoph Giesselink ==== > Now I look *my* calculator and I feel it works like I want > The suggestion I'd like put on the table, is, what about customizable > menus for doing the integration of installed programs easier? > Maybe you could post what you did. I am looking for doing some serious remodeling of my 49 & could use some ideas. Aaron -This message was posted w/ my HP Jornada 568 using an Ambicom wireless network card. Am I a geek or what?!?! :) ==== Aaron Toponce escribi.97 en el mensaje Maybe you could post what you did. I am looking for doing some > serious remodeling of my 49 & could use some ideas. I don't know if posting will help... For getting these menus work, you will need have instaled other libraries, like Erable, Calendar, etc, etc, etc... This is the MTH softkeys menu. :: ' :: NoExitAction { { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF17B74E1BAB7D13AB4E1BAB5D1B264E1FFFFF1 :: TakeOver { xXQ2 xXNUM xADDT xSUBT xMULT xDIV1 xDIV2 xIDIV2 xPOW xSQRT xneg xinv { ! xFACTORIAL } xEXPAND xRSIM xASIM xFACTOR { COLLECT xFCTR } xVXORDER { SUBST xEXEC } xSOLVE } DoMenuKey ; } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF1BBD8C139ADA1BA8DC1BBADA1BBADA1FFFFF1 :: TakeOver ROMPTR 4CA 9 ; } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF176C6F17575F17644F17575F17545C1FFFFF1 :: TakeOver { x% x%T x%CH xFACT xABS xRND xSIGN xTRNC xFP xFLOOR xIP xCEIL xMOD xMANT xXPON xDÙR xRÙD } DoMenuKey ; } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF17AB8E1B39AE1BBA8E1BBBEE17ABE81FFFFF1 :: TakeOver { { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF1F3B3F1FD5DF1FD1BF1FD57F1F359F1FFFFF1 :: TakeOver { xre xim xabs xarg xneg xconj { } { } { } { } { } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF17AB8E1B39AE1BBA8E1BBBEE17ABE81FFFFF1 :: MenuMaker ROMPTR A9 0 DoMenuKey ; } } DoMenuKey ; } xRE xIM xCÙR xRÙC xABS xARG xSIGN xNEG xCONJ ROMPTR A8 5 ROMPTR A8 6 } DoMenuKey ; } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF17464E17555D17465E17755D17754E1FFFFF1 :: TakeOver { ID UTPNZ xUTZO xXÙZ xZÙX xUTPN xNDIST xCOMB { COMBR :: x<< xDUP xROT x+ %1 x- xSWAP xCOMB x> ; } xPERM xFACT xRAND xRDZ } DoMenuKey ; } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF1D13A91D5DBE1D55AE1D5DAE1113A91FFFFF1 :: TakeOver { x== x< x? x? xS xAND xOR xXOR xNOT xSAME xMIN xMAX xLININ } DoMenuKey ; } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF15131915DDB5151DB91BDDB51B13B51FFFFF1 :: TakeOver { { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF1F3B3F1FD5DF1FD1BF1FD57F1F359F1FFFFF1 :: TakeOver { xabs xDOTP xCROSSP { } { } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF15131915DDB5151DB91BDDB51B13B51FFFFF1 :: MenuMaker ROMPTR A9 0 DoMenuKey ; } } DoMenuKey ; } xABS xDOT xCROSS xAÙV xVÙ xÙV2 xÙV3 ROMPTR A8 5 ROMPTR A8 6 ROMPTR A8 7 } DoMenuKey ; } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF1F551F1F555F1F1B1F1F5BDF1F5BDF1FFFFF1 :: TakeOver x<< % 12 xMENU x> ; } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF17EE4C17557F176C6C175D5F17656C1FFFFF1 :: TakeOver x<< % 15 xMENU x> ; } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF1F111F1FDDBF1F11BF1FDDBF1FDDBF1FFFFF1 :: TakeOver x<< % 19 xMENU x> ; } { GROB 3A 8000051000E30000FFFFF172ADC1BB25F1BB2CE1BBACD172A5E1FFFFF1 :: TakeOver x<< % 21 xMENU x> ; } { } } ; DoMenuKey ; @ **************************************************************************** ***************** And here is the RS TIME (in spanish): Ç HORA Y FECHA {{ 0.Herramientas Ç 94,02 MENU È } { 1.Calendario CALENDAR } { 2.Alarmas Ç # 737646d LIBEVAL È } { 3.Reconocer alarma ACK } { 4.Ajustar hora/fecha Ç # 737627d LIBEVAL È } { 5.Tiempo AutoOFF Ç TOFF 8192 / BÙR AutoOFF en SWAP + s + Pulsa [ENTER] o nuevo tiempo (s) INPUT2 DUP SIZE 34 S IF THEN DUP SIZE 34 SWAP SUB OBJÙ 8192 * RÙB PATH HOME SWAP 'TOFF' STO EVAL ELSE DROP END È }} 2 CHOOSE2 IF THEN EVAL END È ==== Maybe you could post what you did. I am looking for doing some > serious remodeling of my 49 & could use some ideas. I don't know if posting will help... > For getting these menus work, you will need have instaled other libraries, > like Erable, Calendar, etc, etc, etc... > This is the MTH softkeys menu. > Aaron ==== I couldn't understand quite well the whole idea of your suggestion, although it sounds quite a good one. Anyhow, it seems you came around a pretty well customized solution. How did you manage to get there ? everything in place (just as you like it) ? I'm interested in reading more on that. Somewhile ago, I think it was who John M., who posted a set of custom menus for accesing many old 48GX commands. Somehow my EMU 48 v 1.31 script corrupted... it crashes everytime after pressing the APSS (G) key... and couldn't find out which was the conflict yet. I should begin a whole new one, but I still have many libs installed and few time to deal with that technical problem. I hardly program RPL basics. Not a clue on SysRPL or ML. -- > ...or for new 49's ROM versions: When we install new libraries in our 48/49, we get a bigger and bigger > LIBRARY menu where we must look for the RAM commands in spite of they were > statistical applications or a periodic table... The APPS menu of the 49 is > an improvement, but not enough, I think. > Along last two years I've re-programmed almost all original menus of my 48. > (The new menus are grouped in two libraries of ~11000 and ~7500 bytes) Where > do I look for a Keyman's command as RclK, or for an Erable's command like > KEYEVAL, or for a ROM command like STOKEYS?... they are all together > (and in the desired order) in the menu MODES/KEYS, where they *must* be. > In this way I've integrated all the stuff of my calc, in an only interface, > and where I find every command where keyboard says. I hope you understand > my poor english. > This is not an easy task for any user: I have had learn some basics about > SysRPL for getting quick menus that also work in edit mode and other > details - and I am grateful for the help I received from Raymond H and > Now I look *my* calculator and I feel it works like I want > The suggestion I'd like put on the table, is, what about customizable > menus for doing the integration of installed programs easier? > ==== My college bookstore had these HP49s on sale for $60. A friend who knows HPs gave me a crash course with it, but I find it hard to use, and I can't get it to do certain things. What's really bugging me right now is I can't get it to integrate {sin or cos} ln(x). It keeps giving me this X(t) answer. Am I doing something wrong, or can't it do this problem? If it can, how do I do it? thanks - Jessica ==== > and I can't get it to do certain things. What's really bugging me > right now is I can't get it to integrate {sin or cos} ln(x). It keeps > giving me this X(t) answer. Am I doing something wrong, or can't it do Do not despair! YOU can do this with your HP49G the following way (REAL EXACT MODE): SHORT WAY: SIN(LN(U)) U RISCH Ut=e^X SUBST EVAL and at this point you get U*SIN(LN(U))/2-U*COS(LN(U))/2 which is what you want (thanks to Ralf Fritzsch back from 2002-09-25 on the same topic!) The reason for the e^X term comes from the equivalence LN(U)=X -> e^(LN(U))=U=e^X and the reason for the equivalence is that your HP49G can not figure it out by itself :-) LONGER WAY: IBP with the same substitution. !Demeter! ==== Considering VX=X. It won't do it directly like 'SIN(LN(X))' INTVX, becuase of a limitation/bug in the CAS, pointed out by Bernard Parisse. The bug presents itself like this: 'EXP(-LN(X))' INTVX -> 'INT(1/Xt,Xt,X)' But if you do 'EXP(-LN(X))' '-LN(X)=LN(1/X)' SUBST EVAL INTVX -> 'LN(X)' It works. > If it can, how do I do it? 'SIN(LN(X))' LIN (to edt the expression in the EQW, and select the first term) INTVX EVAL (to selct the second term) CUT (because of a bug in the EQW evaluation scheme, you can't use SUBST directly in the EQW) ENTER PASTE ENTER '-(i*LN(X))=i*LN(X)' SUBST INTVX 'X=1/X' SUBST + Now you have the antiderivative, but probably not in the form you know. Experiment with the rewrite commands to change the expression. ==== That works, but what a pain! No wonder you never see this calculator used at my school, there are just too many problems with it. The bookstore is practically giving them away. It makes me wonder, were the makers of this calculator drunk or stoned when they put it together? I don't like this machine at all, I'm going to trade it back in on a TI. . It won't do it directly like 'SIN(LN(X))' INTVX, becuase of a limitation/bug > in the CAS, pointed out by Bernard Parisse. The bug presents itself like > this: 'EXP(-LN(X))' INTVX -> 'INT(1/Xt,Xt,X)' But if you do 'EXP(-LN(X))' '-LN(X)=LN(1/X)' SUBST EVAL INTVX -> 'LN(X)' It works. If it can, how do I do it? 'SIN(LN(X))' LIN (to edt the expression in the > EQW, and select the first term) INTVX EVAL (to selct the > second term) CUT (because of a bug in the EQW evaluation > scheme, you can't use SUBST directly in the EQW) ENTER PASTE ENTER > '-(i*LN(X))=i*LN(X)' SUBST INTVX 'X=1/X' SUBST + Now you have the antiderivative, but probably not in the form you know. > Experiment with the rewrite commands to change the expression. > ==== would it make you feel better, if I told you that all the students here in Greece are not allowed to use calculators in their school exams, not even for simple arithmetics? And when I was taking the exams for getting into university, I had to calculate such integrals by hand. But now I have the ability to judge if the result that the 49G (or TI, or Sharp, or ...) gives me is correct or not. Learn to think, don t let yourself become a user who just sits and waits for the correst result! And the 49G definately makes you think! Maybe that s why there are no decent manuals included!!! Friend! Scratch yourself and think as Giorgos Georgiou (soccer commentator in Greece) says!!! Alex Markatis Civil Engineer Greece > That works, but what a pain! No wonder you never see this calculator > used at my school, there are just too many problems with it. The > bookstore is practically giving them away. It makes me wonder, were > the makers of this calculator drunk or stoned when they put it > together? I don't like this machine at all, I'm going to trade it back > in on a TI. thanks for all your replies - Jessica ==== would it make you feel better, if I told you that all > the students here in Greece are not allowed to use > calculators in their school exams, not even for simple > arithmetics? And when I was taking the exams for getting > into university, I had to calculate such integrals > by hand. But now I have the ability to judge if the > result that the 49G (or TI, or Sharp, or ...) gives me > is correct or not. Learn to think, don t let yourself become a user > who just sits and waits for the correst result! And the 49G definately makes you think! > Maybe that s why there are no decent manuals included!!! CON: I prefer using both Urroz's books for the 49G. I have re-learned my math by using the examples on these books. PRO: I also think ;-) AND I suggest the same to Jessica! She could naturally use STARTEQW to access a custom menu in EQW and then program a few common substitution patterns ready for use. I challenge you all to come up with such an STARTEQW You can see an example (with some bugs :( , here: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4360 ==== > That works, but what a pain! Yes, you have to think for yourself. > No wonder you never see this calculator > used at my school, there are just too many problems with it. See above. > It makes me wonder, were > the makers of this calculator drunk or stoned when they put it > together? I regret even answering your question... > I don't like this machine at all, I'm going to trade it back > in on a TI. Yes, I guess that would make more sense for you. ==== Wouldn't it be nice if we had a calculator that just did our homework for us? You just scan the test or homework page from the book, and it reads everything and spits out the answer... maybe we can even get it to print our answers out (showing all the work, of course) just like our own handwriting by going through some handwriting-recognition program.. I would be able to ace every exam without having to invoke the slightest bit of brain power! Ah, to dream.. Aaron That works, but what a pain! No wonder you never see this calculator > used at my school, there are just too many problems with it. The > bookstore is practically giving them away. It makes me wonder, were > the makers of this calculator drunk or stoned when they put it > together? I don't like this machine at all, I'm going to trade it back > in on a TI. thanks for all your replies - Jessica ==== Here we see that the CAS in the HP49 gives us flexibility rather than comfortability (you don't get your answer right away, you need to do som manipulation). I assume that you are asking to Integrate(Sin(LN(X)) dx), and not Integrate(Sin(X)*LN(X) dX). If that is the case, then we need to do some of it by hand and some with the 49 (however, I am limited in my knowledge to the nature of the CAS of the HP49, so I will show you how to do it by hand. If there is anyone here who can show her with the calc, I could learn to). However, because of the nature of your question, I will be dispensing some of parts of the next Calculus Teaching Aid with the HP49 - Integration. (Check out my post on 13 Nov 2002 to see how to do definite and indefinite integration with the calc). Here we go: First off we need to recognize and know U substitution. The reason being we have a composite function (Sin(LN(X))) which leads us to the Chain Rule in differentiation. The Chain Rule says f(g(x)) = f'(g(x))*g'(x). Simple when differentiating, difficult when Integrating. There is no fast rule with the Chain Rule when integrating. So let us set U=LN(X). Then dU=1/X dX, so dX=X*dU. Now we have: Integrate(Sin(U)*X dU). But when differntiating with respect to U, we can not have an X in our integration (assuming we are single variable Integrating). So we need to do another subsitution: If U=LN(X), then X=e^U. So now we have: Integrate(Sin(U)*e^U dU). Now we can integrate with respect to U, but we need to do it by parts. There is a exponential rule to integration that says Integrate((e^(aU) * sin (bU)) dU) = (e^(aU)/(a^2+b^2) * (a sin(bU) - b cos(bU) + C (a and b being the co-efficients of U, any number). Seeing as though a&b=1, then we have (e^U)/2 * (sin(U)-cos(U)) (I will assume we are looking for a specific integral rather than a generic, so I will not worry about the constant 'C'). Now remember, e^U = X and U = LN(X). So re-substitue, and you get your answer: (X*Sin(LN(X)))/2 - (X*Cos(LN(X)))/2. I realize that the TI89 gives you this answer immediately, and the HP49 does not. As I stated earlier, the HP49 CAS gives you more flexibility rather than comfortability. It wants to make sure all the bases are covered so to speak before moving on. So when doing the integration on the HP, do the U Substitution first, then integrate, then re-substitute. Here you will have a complex formula dealing with because of my limited knowledge of the CAS on the 49. I realize this is your question, but I hoped to show you how to do it by hand. You could use your 49 to help save a lot of scratch paper (using it to STOre variables and the SUBST command). Can anyone simplify this rather complex formula that the HP49 gives? Sin(X)*e^X IntVX gives us: -((1-i)/4 * e^((i-i)*X)) - (1+i)/4 * e^((1+i)*X) then: X=LN(X) SUBST EVAL gives us: -((1+i)*e^((1+i)*LN(X)) + (1-i)*e^((1-i)*LN(X)))/4 Where do we go from here? Aaron Aaron ==== > Can anyone simplify this > rather complex formula that the HP49 gives? I'll try, let's see... > Sin(X)*e^X IntVX gives us: > -((1-i)/4 * e^((i-i)*X)) - (1+i)/4 * e^((1+i)*X) > then: > X=LN(X) SUBST EVAL gives us: > -((1+i)*e^((1+i)*LN(X)) + (1-i)*e^((1-i)*LN(X)))/4 > Where do we go from here? If you expand the exponents, and remember that 1. e^(a+b)=e^a*e^b and 2. e^ln(x)=x, you get: i ln(x) -i ln(x) - (1+i) x e - (1-i) x e -------------------------------------- 4 Next step: e^(i*x)=cos(x)+i*sin(x). You get: - ( (1+i) x (cos (ln x) + i sin (ln x)) + (1-i) x (cos (ln x) - i sin(ln x)) ) / 4 Now just expand: -(x cos (ln x) + i x sin (ln x) + i x cos (ln x) + i^2 sin (ln x) + x cos (ln x) - i x sin (ln x) - i x cos (ln x) + i^2 sin(ln x)) / 4 Remember that i^2=-1, and cancel out the imaginary parts, and you get (x sin (ln x) - x cos (ln x)) / 2 It should be correct, since it is the same as you got, from wherever that was =) I did it all by hand though, maybe someone can find a way to do it on the 49. Greetings Thomas -- Thomas Rast If you cannot convince them, confuse them. -- Harry S. Truman ==== I'll also try. Since the CAS of the HP49G seems to love complex exponentials more than trigonometrics, switch to complex mode and EXPLN the above expression. Press LIN and we are at: -(i/2*e^(i*LN(X)))+i/2*e^(-(i*LN(X))) If you try INTVX here, you see that the HP49G integrates the first but not the second term. It somehow doesn't like the second term. So let's go for a substitution. Enter: 'INTEGRAL(LOW,HIGH,SIN(LN(X),X)' , where INTEGRAL stands for the integration sign that you get pressing [RED-SHIFT] and [TAN]. Enter LN(X)=Y and then SUBST, to get the substituted integral. We are interested for the integrand, so press OBJ-> 3 DROPN to get it on stack level 1. Now, enter 'Y', press RISCH. After some seconds you get: -((1-i)/4*e^((1-i)*Y))-((1+i)/4*e^((1+i)*Y)) For back substitution enter Y=LN(X) and press [SUBST]. Switch top real mode, press [RE], switch to complex mode, press EXPAND. The result is (X*SIN(LN(X))-X*COS(LN(X)))/2. Let's take a look at the imaginary part. Switch to real mode, press [IM]. If you EXPAND you get 0, so the result is the expression: (X*SIN(LN(X))-X*COS(LN(X)))/2 Notice that the definite integral was used only for taking the integrand. Greetings, Nick. > Can anyone simplify this > rather complex formula that the HP49 gives? I'll try, let's see... Sin(X)*e^X IntVX gives us: > -((1-i)/4 * e^((i-i)*X)) - (1+i)/4 * e^((1+i)*X) > then: > X=LN(X) SUBST EVAL gives us: > -((1+i)*e^((1+i)*LN(X)) + (1-i)*e^((1-i)*LN(X)))/4 > Where do we go from here? If you expand the exponents, and remember that 1. e^(a+b)=e^a*e^b and 2. > e^ln(x)=x, you get: i ln(x) -i ln(x) > - (1+i) x e - (1-i) x e > -------------------------------------- > 4 Next step: e^(i*x)=cos(x)+i*sin(x). You get: - ( (1+i) x (cos (ln x) + i sin (ln x)) > + (1-i) x (cos (ln x) - i sin(ln x)) ) / 4 Now just expand: -(x cos (ln x) + i x sin (ln x) + i x cos (ln x) + i^2 sin (ln x) > + x cos (ln x) - i x sin (ln x) - i x cos (ln x) + i^2 sin(ln x)) / 4 Remember that i^2=-1, and cancel out the imaginary parts, and you get (x sin (ln x) - x cos (ln x)) / 2 It should be correct, since it is the same as you got, from wherever > that was =) I did it all by hand though, maybe someone can find a way to > do it on the 49. ==== The X(t) answer means that it can't do it. Make sure you're using the correct syntax, though (e.g. you aren't trying to integrate sin(x)*ln(x), which no calculator can do). I don't have a HP49G, though, so I can't actually try it out. -- You«re not doing anything wrong, but I think that you have to make a substitution of x(t) - but you can try to read the Why does the HP 49 sub in Xt into integrations-topic and Integration Cos (ln x)-topic and see if you understand it... But I«m also very new to the HP 49, so I hope that some kindly person, will answer your question, once again......... Or at least refer to some good litterature about integrating on the HP.... Martin Jorgensen. ==== > what a coincidence, I'm also looking for replacement for the unsupported > #1D44. On the 49G, there is a similar entry but, unfortunately, it is > unsupported (also) and unstable (snip). CODE > GOSBVL =SAVPTR > GOSBVL =DisableIntr > GOSBVL #1D44 > GOSBVL =AllowIntr > GOVLNG =GETPTRLOOP > ENDCODE ==== :: AtUserStack CODE GOSBVL =SAVPTR GOSBVL =DisableIntr GOSBVL 01B1C A=0 W GOSBVL =clkspd C=B A CSRB A C=C+A A A=0 W A=C A GOSBVL =DispOn GOSBVL =AllowIntr ASL W P= 5 GOVLNG =PUSHhxsLoop ENDCODE HXS>% ; @ NB: The 48 address #54371 (i.e. hex>%) is at :1:62D1D in the 49. HPCC #1046 ==== >:: > AtUserStack > CODE > GOSBVL =SAVPTR > GOSBVL =DisableIntr > GOSBVL 01B1C > A=0 W > GOSBVL =clkspd > C=B A > CSRB A > C=C+A A > A=0 W > A=C A > GOSBVL =DispOn > GOSBVL =AllowIntr > ASL W > P= 5 > GOVLNG =PUSHhxsLoop >ENDCODE > HXS>% >; >@ NB: The 48 address #54371 (i.e. hex>%) is at :1:62D1D in the 49. HPCC #1046 You can change GOSBVL 01B1C to GOSBVL 04315 if you only want to use entries that are in a stable region. (inside of DeepSleep) == Your program on the HP49G on my desk generates values ranging from 3746256 to 3750608 (256 runs). Is my HP49G the slowest one on the planet? ==== On my HP49G, the interval of returned values after 256 runs is: [3921520, 3928496]. And this one: [3920656, 3926752] on my other HP49G won at the HHUC'02 as a door prize. Definitely, these values are not close to the ones shown by ON-D 2. Which raises an interesting topic: Bill Butler reported in Datafile V21N4 pages 10 and 11, that after pressing ON-D A on his three double speed HP48G+'s from Cynox, the numbers displayed are clearly wrong (227... and 242...) because the machines do indeed run twice as fast. [Can it be caused by a register overflow?] On the other hand, Veli-Pekka reported here that his double speed '49G actually runs at 5MHz: http://groups.google.com/groups?&selm=Dfhq9.1534%24h7.568801%40reader1.news. jippii.net What's the output of Joe Horn's program on your calc? Have you measured any actual execution times? HPCC #1046 ==== I measured the speeds before and after (the program and values were intact in main RAM when Cynox.de returned the calculator) using simple loops (which are *still* there) : << 1. 9999. FOR k k k 9. MOD 1. + DISP NEXT > to see if the LCD affects the speed and << 1. 9999. START NEXT > just counting.... SO It was a real measurement. I doubt if anything else than a 2MHz 48S/SX can be easily double speed -upped for real. Veli-Pekka PS: The Radix calculator was broken when it came to Finland The CEO send it back explaining the keyboard problem caused by the upper and lower half improper re-attachment and they 1st refused to fix it, explaining that they don't mess with he finally got them to see the light. :-D SO: Cynox.de is not the worst place to get a speed-up, it is simply the only one! And they seem to be allowed to advertise as they will in Germany/EU. (eg. double speed) What a pity! :-P BTW: My +25% MHz machine takes -20% time to do math and everything works perfectly right. :-D If I mess something up here, I'm gonna blame Cynox.de !!! ;-) PPS: I would rather have no expensive micro-switches no fast clock, just a simple speed-up to 5MHz (preferably from HP) > On my HP49G, the interval of returned values after 256 runs is: > [3921520, 3928496]. And this one: [3920656, 3926752] on my other HP49G > won at the HHUC'02 as a door prize. Definitely, these values are not close to the ones shown by ON-D 2. Which raises an interesting topic: Bill Butler reported in Datafile V21N4 pages 10 and 11, that after > pressing ON-D A on his three double speed HP48G+'s from Cynox, the > numbers displayed are clearly wrong (227... and 242...) because > the machines do indeed run twice as fast. [Can it be caused by a > register overflow?] On the other hand, Veli-Pekka reported here that > his double speed '49G actually runs at 5MHz: http://groups.google.com/groups?&selm=Dfhq9.1534%24h7.568801%40reader1.news. jippii.net What's the output of Joe Horn's program on your calc? Have you > measured any actual execution times? HPCC #1046 ==== . Your program on the HP49G on my desk generates values ranging from 3746256 > to 3750608 (256 runs). Is my HP49G the slowest one on the planet? ==== The program inserted by Jordi, in my micro-computer HP-49G, from Indonesia (ID9470....), with ROM 1.19-6 (version HP49-B), generates ranging values in aprox. 20 steps : 3746256 . . . 3747120 . . . 3748000 Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK **************************************************************************** *** > on the planet (3679984 and 3681728, is chinesse model). Your program on the HP49G on my desk generates values ranging from 3746256 > to 3750608 (256 runs). Is my HP49G the slowest one on the planet? I'm not willing to part with mine, but you can buy a scanned in PDF copy of the 48SX Owner Manual at http://www.hpmuseum.org/cd/cddesc.htm. As far as I know, they never published a separate manual for the 48S. The difference is that the 48S doesn't accept the expansion cards like the 48SX does, so ignore anything about the expansion cards and ports 1 and 2. ==== Regarding your recent post: >i agree. it is just a calculator that they have slapped into a PDA >case. a telephone nowadays would do more math. [snip] Considering that the ClassPad, according to the ad (http://www.casio.co.jp/edu_e/classpad/), comes with CAS, geometry, and other math functions built-in, I can only wonder what sort of phone you use. (I usually use a pay phone, and I've yet to see even one such function. ) ==== > Considering that the ClassPad, according to the ad > (http://www.casio.co.jp/edu_e/classpad/), comes with CAS, geometry, > and other math functions built-in, I can only wonder what sort of > phone you use. (I usually use a pay phone, and I've yet to see even > one such function. ) hi there! not to start a little war, but there are many phones out there that will blow away any calculator in performance, development software available and from here -> software itself. many of them can be programmed in c++, java, etc. with the ability to port software already made. in some of the new phones you can use DOS -nokia 9210-(an for example load an old MAPLE version ??). even the nokia 7650 can play the game 'doom', which will give you an indication of the type of performance that they can run. i don't think that anybody would want to buy a phone to run math, but my point is: why use archaic hardware and go back to the calculator type machine when developing a product that looks like a PDA? ==== At least a phone has a keypad. Stephen.N Considering that the ClassPad, according to the ad > (http://www.casio.co.jp/edu_e/classpad/), comes with CAS, geometry, ==== And a * key for multiplication! ;-) > At least a phone has a keypad. Stephen.N Considering that the ClassPad, according to the ad > (http://www.casio.co.jp/edu_e/classpad/), comes with CAS, geometry, > and other math functions built-in, I can only wonder what sort of > phone you use. (I usually use a pay phone, and I've yet to see even > one such function. ) hi there! not to start a little war, but there are many phones out there that > will blow away any calculator in performance, development software X ==== --------------------------------------------------------------------- I have read comments about price drops for the HP 49G, supposely cheaper than the HP 48GX in some places. Can somebody mention a few places, (online preffered)? I read about prices as low as $60. Toby ==== Dynatech still has some brand new HP32SIIs for 67,95 euro. They come with a spanish manual and a CD with the manuals in several other languages. See http://www.dynatech.de/ I bought one, it is a great calc. Peter Lott John Cadick schrieb: > This may have already been posted - however: Calcpro has some re-furbished HP32SIIs on sale for $69.00 or so. They do > not, unfortunately, come with manuals, but still - at the rediculous prices > that some are paying on Ebay - this seems like a good deal. CalcPros website > is http://www.calcpro.com. However you may have to call them. Their phone > number is on their website. John ==== ==== Try http://www.hpcalc.org ==== WAIT, DON'T USE IT, IT HAS A BUG! ==== I forgot, also see the FAQs: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/faq/ ==== Also note that http://www.calcpro.com/ lists it for US$29.95. ==== > C=C-1 B % <======= if I change to C=C-1 A everything works!!!!! This changes the test so lengths < $FFFFF all work! I don't know much machine language, but you have changed from a byte wide (2 nibble) operation to an address wide (5 nibble) operation. I suspect this keeps you from underflowing, but this won't be guaranteed unless you specifically know what you have stored in the upper nibbles of the C register. Bill alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) ==== On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:16:39 -0800, William Graves >In the course of building an XModem server for the HP48, I decoded the ROM routine STR2OBJ from the HP49 (I attach my version). STR2OBJ gets a HPHP48-R...... string. If the string part is longer than $FF, it is not converted. >Why does STR2OBJ quit if the length is bigger? In order to make STR2OBJ function for XModem, I had to make a change to line 32 of the attached. >The line I changed is marked in the file but it looks like this: > C=0 A > C=C-1 B % <======= if I change to C=C-1 A everything works!!!!! This changes the test so lengths < $FFFFF all work! -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >Bill Graves RKBA! >bgraves@ix.netcom.com STR2OBJ is correct as it is in the 48/49 ROM. The lines you mention were changed in the 48 revision R ROM to allow XModem transfers to work properly. In previous ROM versions and the SX there was a check to determine if the string had more than one nibble of padding and if so STR2OBJ would abort with an error condition. This obviously would not work with a protocol such as XModem which *requires* padding as it only transfers data in 128 byte blocks and doesn't transmit the data set size. So, you see that the original lines are actually correct as they constitute a check for more than 255 padding nibbles (one nibble less than one XModem block) in which case an error condition occurs. Changing this to #FFFFF negates the error detection that was purposely put into the ROM and decreases the robustness of the code. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Jonathan Busby - before replying. ==== Oh, the tangled webs we weave... was there! BUT look now at the problem today for the HP49 which has the same code!! 1. The XModem Connectivity kit from HP uses 1k blocks not 128, so the nice fix fails for the XModem connectivity kit because the padding can be greater than 255 nibbles 2. SO, the writers of the connectivity kit, knowing this, download a command string after every file download to fix the downloaded object. The string is: 'name' MEM DROP DUP RCL SWAP DUP PURGE SWAP # 100002h LIBEVAL 26 + # 100003h LIBEVAL NEWOB SWAP STO This fixes the HPHP string and makes it into a valid object. 3. BUT WAIT, this will fail if we download a file of length 768 nibbles or more because then the padding will be less than 255 nibbles and then STR2OBJ works! However the command string above is still used because XModem Connectivity kit does not recognize this case. Therefore the command string will try to fix an object which is already ok and therefore hurts the object! 4. So now I come along and try to build Conn4x, a XModem package based on the XModem connectivity kit. I want to support both calculators. I am also saying this old connectivity kit wasted a lot of transfer time for small files by using 1024 blocks. I will be clever and use BOTH 128 and 1024 transfers and pick the best for each download based on the file size. BOY did that create complications! 5. I have it working now. For the HP49 I make sure that I always transfer the file plus AT LEAST 256 nibbles. This forces the STR2OBJ to fail everytime. Then the crazy command (#2 above) can fix it and now it will always work! For the HP48, I have to give the user XMODEM Server code with a STR2OBJ embedded. I will make that STR2OBJ ALWAYS accept any length padding so there will not be a problem. In the HP48 case, the special command string (#2 above) cannot be used because the commands require the 256 Menu (HP49). I think that as long as I keep loving this calculator, I will never have a boring day! If you see any errors in what I have done let me know and thank you for the help, I now have some confidence in the approach I will use. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com ==== In the course of building an XModem server for the HP48, I decoded the ROM routine STR2OBJ from the HP49 (I attach my version). STR2OBJ gets a HPHP48-R...... string. If the string part is longer than $FF, it is not converted. Why does STR2OBJ quit if the length is bigger? In order to make STR2OBJ function for XModem, I had to make a change to line 32 of the attached. The line I changed is marked in the file but it looks like this: C=0 A C=C-1 B % <======= if I change to C=C-1 A everything works!!!!! This changes the test so lengths < $FFFFF all work! -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com ==== Whoops forgot the attachment!! Here is the code: * string: HPHP48-R plus object on the stack * try to make a proper object and return on stack NULLNAME STR2OBJ ( disassembled from 2F061, FPTR 1 208=1:4A567 ) :: ?IsHPHP NOT?SEMI DUPLEN$ VERSTRING LEN$ SWAPOVER#- #<3 caseDROP ( pruned HPHP48, leaves -R so <3 means nothing left ) CODEM % disassembled from %1:4A594 GOSBVL POP# % has length of incoming verstring on stack A=A+A A % make nibble count R1=A W GOSBVL SAVPTR A=DAT1 A % get the object pointer R2=A W D1=A D1+5 C=DAT1 A % total incoming length AD1EX C=C+A A R0=C W % R0 points just after object C=R1 W A=A+C A % add verstring length (nibbles) D0=A D0+5 A=DAT0 A % point at prologue in string, get value D1=A A=DAT1 A % Read signature of prologue routine LC(5) =PRLG ?C=A A -> .tag2 % go if a prologue LC 80000 ?C<=A A -> .tag1 % go if 1st nibbles of prologue routine point to RAM D1=A A=DAT1 A % else retrieve what that points at LC(5) =PRLG ?C=A A -> .tag2 % go if that is a prologue *.tag1 GOVLNG GPPushFLoop % GETPTR, Push FALSE, Loop *.tag2 GOSBVL SAFESKIPOB % found a prologue GOC .tag1 CD0EX % A->just after the prologue A=R0 W % just after the containing string A=A-C A R3=A W % the total length of ... part C=0 A C=C-1 B % why B? cuts off > $FF strings ********** ?C .tag1 % go if item length > 000FF C=R1 W % this code prunes the length to proper size A=A+C A % ... + verstring length A+10 A % plus string prologue + string length count C=R0 W R0=A W A=R2 W D1=A C=C-A A B=C A C=R1 W A=A+C A D0=A D0+10 C=R0 W B=B-C A C=B A GOSBVL MOVEDOWN C=R3 W AD0EX A=A+C A C=R0 W GOSBVL MOVERSD A=B A D0=A A=R0 W C=DAT0 A C=C-A A DAT0=C A GOVLNG GPPushTLoop RTNSXM ENDCODE NOT?SEMI ?ROMPTR> ; ==== OK, I give up. I've been trying since yesterday to figure out how to screen print on my 48GX from within the MK Filer. The usual ON-1 sequence doesn't work in the Filer; it just does a CANCEL instead. (It works fine *outside* the Filer, though.) What keystroke sequence do I need to do this? (If it's in the documentation, then I can't find it.) -- Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== > OK, I give up. I've been trying since yesterday to figure out how > to screen print on my 48GX from within the MK Filer. The usual ON-1 > sequence doesn't work in the Filer; it just does a CANCEL instead. > (It works fine *outside* the Filer, though.) What keystroke sequence do > I need to do this? (If it's in the documentation, then I can't find it.) I'm afraid it won't work... One other way of printing the screen is doing something like this: << FILER LCD-> This will start the filer, and when exiting you will have a copy of the screen on the stack that you can then send to the pc. Another way (maybe) would be to very quickly press ON another time and 1 at the same time. The first ON would leave the Filer, the second ON-1 would print the current screen Good luck ==== > One other way of printing the screen is doing something like this: > << FILER LCD-> This will start the filer, and when exiting you will have a copy of the > screen on the stack that you can then send to the pc. there had to be *some* way to do it, as there are screen shots of the Filer in the MK documentation.) -- Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== Just bought a 49G and would like to save its ROM to my PC before I upgrade its ROM to a newer one, incase I have to go back to the old vesion. Could someone tell me how to do a ROM dump and with what ==== Probably easier and faster to download it from hpcalc.org just check the version you have on the calc with VERSION Just bought a 49G and would like to save its ROM to my PC before I > upgrade its ROM to a newer one, incase I have to go back to the old > vesion. Could someone tell me how to do a ROM dump and with what -- Markus Nylund markus.nylund@arcada.fi 040-5377 377 ==== well sorry for my obscene lanaguage, and school does get boring, i make straight a's, i can manage to do other stuff, and this is jus how i type online, i dont see the point typin correctly, and i dont see why it would offend anyone to make a game. many people make games. and i bet it is hard to do so. so what ever ==== I was not offended by a game request. I think it's Pivo's job !!! ;-) PS: This message was written with fresh positrons and it will self-annihilate in 10 seconds. Be aware of the explosion - it may turn you into The HULK !! > well sorry for my obscene lanaguage, and school does get boring, i > make straight a's, i can manage to do other stuff, and this is jus how > i type online, i dont see the point typin correctly, and i dont see > why it would offend anyone to make a game. many people make games. > and i bet it is hard to do so. so what ever ==== > I was not offended by a game request. > I think it's Pivo's job !!! What is my job? Be offended or writing games? Former: ok, latter: Am I French? -- ir. P.F.Geelhoed Delft University of Technology Laboratory for Aero & Hydrodynamics Leeghwaterstraat 21, 2628 CA Delft, The Netherlands +31-15-2786656 / +31-15-2782947 (fax) ==== > and this is jus how i type online, i dont see the point typin correctly... THINK in the reader's of your posts, BTW many of them are not english speakers. Have you think that typing in the rigth way is easier to understand what you mean? If you look for a post from Alberto (HP49 ML Help please, November 12), you will see in my OT answer what I think about typing in this way ==== > whoa, guys i was just askin a fuckin a question, i made mistake and > should have said would make instead of could make, good god. i just > asked one simple question, if u wouldnt do it then dont give a fuckin > reply. and btw i got a damn ps2 so fuck you aaron. and you cant > bring a fuckin gba in school bitch, thas why i ask for this fuckin > game, which is pretty tight, so stop bitchin at me go suck a fuckin > dick. good lord I can see how my post comes across as harsh. It wasn't meant to be.. I just come to this newsgroup for knowledge on mathematics & engineering. Not games. Its your calc & you may do with it what you wish, but I was still offended being asked to code a game for a calculator. And I imagine others were to. I just had to spill my feelings on the subject. I don't reflect the groups feelings in any way. I mean nothing personal towards you. As my wife always says to me: You have so much potential. I think we all have potential. Good luck on finding your game! :) Aaron ==== I am wondering if this kind of task is possible: DATE TIME << . . > 10 UBASE UVAL 8192 * @ every 10 seconds. 4 ->LIST STOALARM DO . . UNTIL KEY END Every 10 seconds the program goes out from the DO..UNTIL..END loop and does the ALARM task. Tal ==== I am wondering if this kind of task is possible: DATE TIME > << > . > . > > 10 UBASE UVAL 8192 * @ every 10 seconds. > 4 ->LIST STOALARM > DO > . > . > UNTIL > KEY > END Every 10 seconds the program goes out from the > DO..UNTIL..END loop and does the ALARM task. Try this: DATE TIME << DROP @ (optional) Drop the alarm index. . . > 81920 @ every 10 seconds. 4 ->LIST STOALARM RCLALARM Then edit the alarm to sometime in the future so that it starts repeating. Or you could replace RCLALARM with DROP and insert, for example, .01 + (for 1 minute) after TIME so that it will come due in the future. Note that RightShift TIME on the 48G series gets you to input forms for browsing and setting alarms, which might be easier than using STOALARM and RCLALARM. When you want to stop it from repeating, hold down the ON key and press the 4 key (or the 9 key on the 49G -- the one with TIME above it). On the 48G series, the next alarm will run, but it won't be rescheduled Note that you'll have a problem if the alarm program isn't finished yet when the alarm repeats. -- James ==== I have written a USER RPL program for our Snooker group. In the directory SNOOKER I have 6 variables. P1 P2 P3 (scores of players) and PL1 PL2 PL3 (names of players). One of the menus displays the scores (at the moment in a message box.) I want to create a full screen 131*64 grob. Since I can't find any help on this at hpcalc.org I need help with the coding. How do I create the grob in user RPL? I want to add 3 of these. How would I code this? 0 20 40 60 80 100 120 140 | | ------------------------------- | | 0 5 10 15 19 | | ------------------------------- | | And how do I display the grob? Thats all for now. I'll figure out how to add the text and scores myself. ==== You could try DISPXY or just edit it directly in the Graphing Environment then press STO and leave it. On the stack use up-arrow then |EDIT| and put a quote at the beginning of the line. You get the internal code for that grob. Better advice, anyone? > I have written a USER RPL program for our Snooker group. In the directory SNOOKER I have 6 variables. P1 P2 P3 (scores of > players) and PL1 PL2 PL3 (names of players). One of the menus displays the scores (at the moment in a message box.) > I want to create a full screen 131*64 grob. Since I can't find any help on this at hpcalc.org I need help with the > coding. How do I create the grob in user RPL? I want to add 3 of these. How would I code this? 0 20 40 60 80 100 120 140 > | | > ------------------------------- > | | 0 5 10 15 19 > | | > ------------------------------- > | | And how do I display the grob? Thats all for now. I'll figure out how to add the text and scores > myself. > ==== I have found a solution. I have finished a grob that looks like this. 0 20 40 60 80 120 140 160 180 |-----------------------------| 0 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 --------------------------------- 0 20 40 60 80 120 140 160 180 |-----------------------------| 0 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 --------------------------------- 0 20 40 60 80 120 140 160 180 |-----------------------------| 0 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 and named it SN when I want to display the scores I RCL it to the stack, put it into DISP and then just add this marker [] to the picture using GOR. One progblem though. There is not enough space for names. If you have any 131*64 picture that does the same but will fit in the names please send me a copy. By the way if I get any responses here for the program to be uploaded to hpcalc.org I'll do so. Here is a quick discription. The program does exactly the same as the snooker score board. (I am using it because there are not enough score boards at our snooker club.) The whole program is made up of menues to: - Add score - View score - Reset scores - Change names - Exit ==== > :: > CK1&Dispatch > FIVE > :: > >R > ticR > NcaseSIZEERR > ticR > NOT?SEMI > BEGIN > EvalNoCK: > x+ > RSWAP > ticR > WHILE > RSWAP > REPEAT > ; > ; > CHALLENGE: Does anybody see a still faster and shorter > program which we could recommend for ROM 19-7 ? PS. IMHO, the error-out of Sigmalist for singletons > is perhaps just an inattention of its programmer. > It also seems to me that the message Bad Argument Value > is more appropriate for the empty list input than > Invalid Dimension. What is your opinion? Only this: :: CK1&Dispatch FIVE :: >R ticR NcaseSIZEERR BEGIN RSWAP ticR NOTcase COLA_EVAL RSWAP EvalNoCK: x+ AGAIN ; ; @ But of course, it cannot replace SigmaLIST in 1.19-7 because of compatibility issues. Create new commands instead? SigmaLST DOLST DOSBS etc.. My opinion on the matter is that SigmaLIST for singletons should have returned the single objects - but only in cases where x+ applies. So, { << > } SigmaLIST should error out as before, where { 5 } SigmaLIST returns 5 I don't mind the error message 'Invalid Dimension'. It is correct. The values aren't wrong - there are just not enough of them. Werner Huysegoms ==== > Only this: > :: > CK1&Dispatch > FIVE > :: > >R ticR NcaseSIZEERR > BEGIN > RSWAP ticR > NOTcase COLA_EVAL > RSWAP > EvalNoCK: x+ > AGAIN > ; > ; > @ Quite interesting alternative. But applied to { << > } it returns nothing (evaluates the empty program) while my version returns the empty program. Isn't there something like a COLA_DoNothing which could replace the COLA_EVAL and which just escapes from the loop doing nothing else? If not, such a thing should perhaps be created :-) > But of course, it cannot replace SigmaLIST in 1.19-7 because of > compatibility issues. Werner, you seem still to believe in backward compatibility. Didn't you read what JHM told as about this? IMHO, expanding a function's domain in an appropriate way is sometimes even more useful than some useless backward compatibility. > My opinion on the matter is that SigmaLIST for singletons should have > returned the single objects - but only in cases where x+ applies. > So, { << > } SigmaLIST should error out as before, What do you mean with x+ applies? It does apply also in {<< > { } }, say. The treatment of lists with different object types of its elements makes SigmaLIST sometimes useful even in some non-standard situations. 7 > I don't mind the error message 'Invalid Dimension'. It is correct. In what sense? What is meant by the Dimension of a list? If simply size then Bad Argument Value is OK because the list is the argument of SigmalIST, not its members. see a real need for it if not for backward compatibilty. There are other places in ROM where JYA canceled the ?ATTNQUITT without hesitation. An ugly example is its eliminiation from the UsrRPL compiler (for speed), without seriously thinking on why it was input here by the 48-ROM authors. ==== > Quite interesting alternative. But applied to { << > } it > returns nothing (evaluates the empty program) while my version > returns the empty program. Isn't there something like a > COLA_DoNothing which could replace the COLA_EVAL and which > just escapes from the loop doing nothing else? If not, such a > thing should perhaps be created :-) No, there isn't. BTW, the COLA_EVAL trick is not mine, but Jurjen E. Bos' I know it fails on non-data objects.. But of course, it cannot replace SigmaLIST in 1.19-7 because of > compatibility issues. Werner, you seem still to believe in backward compatibility. > Didn't you read what JHM told as about this? ? No.. what has he said about it? I can't remember anything but the fact that he, too, complains about the various places in the '49 where compatibility with the 48 has been compromised (like ISOL, for instance). > My opinion on the matter is that SigmaLIST for singletons should have > returned the single objects - but only in cases where x+ applies. > So, { << > } SigmaLIST should error out as before, What do you mean with x+ applies? It does apply also > in {<< > { } }, say. Hm, indeed it does.. > I don't mind the error message 'Invalid Dimension'. It is correct. In what sense? What is meant by the Dimension of a list? > If simply size then Bad Argument Value is OK because > the list is the argument of SigmalIST, not its members. Yes, but as I said in my post, it is because there are not enough members that the command errors out. That's the Dimension of the list - the same goes for trying to invert a 2x3 matrix. It's not the value that is the problem, it's the size. > see a real need for it if not for backward compatibilty. Well, every command that may take an appreciable time should be interruptable by the user - this has nothing to do with backward compatibility. Werner ==== > see a real need for it if not for backward compatibilty. There > are other places in ROM where JYA canceled the ?ATTNQUITT > without hesitation. An ugly example is its eliminiation from > the UsrRPL compiler (for speed), without seriously thinking > on why it was input here by the 48-ROM authors. You speak too quickly and without knowledge about this. No ?ATTNQUIT has been removed from existing HP48 commands. Some have been removed (like the one from the main loop in the RPL compiler) because it was also called at three other different locations (also in a loop). Don't forget for example that commands like CKn contains ML code that will produce the same result as ?ATTNQUIT but in a much faster way ==== I forgot to mention one thingy: the command ?ATTNQUIT should be in the inner loop, of course, to enable the user to interrupt the command. Werner ==== an interesting bug in the 39G (also in the emulator). If you go to the SPECIAL CHARS view, which for non-39G users contains a list of all the special chars that don't appear on the keyboard, and choose the 'cubed' char (superscripted 3) then what you actually get is a power of -1 instead. I think this comes from a change that JYA made during the upgrade. On the 38G when you press the X to the -1 button you get ^(-1) in your 39/40G so that the button gives a superscripted -1 instead of the ^(-1). There was no superscripted -1 char available so he probably took the Obviously he forgot to update the CHARS view! ==== Even my prototype has this feature superscript 3 (as seen in CHARS) gives superscript -1 (to the CLI) > an interesting bug in the 39G (also in the emulator). If you go to the > SPECIAL CHARS view, which for non-39G users contains a list of all the > special chars that don't appear on the keyboard, and choose the 'cubed' > char (superscripted 3) then what you actually get is a power of -1 instead. > > I think this comes from a change that JYA made during the upgrade. On > the 38G when you press the X to the -1 button you get ^(-1) in your > 39/40G so that the button gives a superscripted -1 instead of the ^(-1). > There was no superscripted -1 char available so he probably took the > Obviously he forgot to update the CHARS view! > ==== In message , Veli-Pekka >Even my prototype has this feature >superscript 3 (as seen in CHARS) gives superscript -1 (to the CLI) Some more oddities... On the 39G, 2 superscript 3 -> 2^-1 -> 0.5 2 superscript 2 -> 2^2 -> 4 2 superscript 1 -> 2^1 -> error: Invalid Syntax On the 38G+ 2 superscript 3 -> 2^3 -> error: Invalid Syntax 2 superscript 2 -> 2^2 -> 4 2 superscript 1 -> 2^1 -> error: Invalid Syntax > an interesting bug in the 39G (also in the emulator). If you go to the > SPECIAL CHARS view, which for non-39G users contains a list of all the > special chars that don't appear on the keyboard, and choose the 'cubed' > char (superscripted 3) then what you actually get is a power of -1 >instead. -- Bruce Horrocks Hampshire England bh@granby.demon.co.uk ==== > ... GSLIST can't be used for a > symbolic sum. > > Again one of these unchecked claims typical for you. > Put a list of two symbolics on the stack, { A B } > say. Apply SigmaLIST. The result is 'A+B' as expected. > SigmaLIST yields the symbolic sum also in the general > case of a list of algebraics if the list size is >1. > Maybe one has to care about some flags. > > This is not what I meant ... Relevant is what you write and not what you mean. > sum, and this is simply wrong! Sometimes the meaning of what one says can be assumed viewing the history of the thread. Veli-Pekka has already commented in the preciding messages: >I think SigmaLIST is for LIST of objects summation, >more of a programming language command than math >and that the math thing is the Summation Sigma, >which also understands symbolic sums. Symbolic sums stands here for sums like sum(n=1,N,n), was my assumption and that's why I just used the same words again. Even the corresponding package of Mathematica is named symbolic sums though symbolic items in a list can be added with each other without this package. Of course the HP49G is not Mathematica (and how we wish it would be ;-)) but you seem to always find something to hook on especially when you already have put somebody in some category. If what I write is relevant, then I might remind you to apply this If I have taken that for relevant you wouldn't sit where you sit now. > And here a second wrong statement of yours, in > the same context. In contradiction to your claim > that the additive semigroups of the HP49 have all > a neutral element. The truth is that the additive > semigroup of symbolics has *no* neutral element. > (even the NULLSYMBOLIC, accessable only in SysRPL, > is not a Zero with respect to +). > > Really? > number+0=number > string+=string What has the fact that the semigroup of strings has > a Zero in common with the fact that the additive semigroup > of symbolics has not ??? You claimed that *each* semigroup > dealt with by GSLIST has a neutral element. And this > is wrong again. Is it? Then find me please a counter example with no neutral element. And BTW, *you* spoke about semi-groups. It was not a coincidence that I stayed to algebraic structure and didn't go further. The properties of the structure have to be found first and then we should go on classifying. > ... but stop advertising me as > the bad/stupid guy... I didn't say you are a bad guy, You *did* but you forgot later. So much about relevance of written words. > but if you classify > yourself as a stupid guy, I do not contradict... This seems to be your biggest wish, isn't it Wolfgang? OK, I dare classify myself stupid, and I'll never dare calling me intelligent, quite contrary to you, the most brilliant programmer of all times, to which we must sing hymnes of admiration all our lives, in order to keep him happy. Agnowledgement and admiration is not everything, Wolfgang... Nick. ==== I've tried the last HP tools, and I don't manage to use the MASD syntax. Is there any directive to use ? Are there any documentation about this feature ? (I didn't find any with sasm). I was used to code on my HP, but since my computer is more comfortable, I'm migrating my projects to the HP Tools. Any advice is welcome :) ==== Joseph K. Horn escribi.97 en el mensaje > Is this HP49G bug already known about? { { [ [ 1 ] ] } } LGCD --> hangs.... > I can see the same behaviour on my 48GX with Erable 3.2. What an old bug! ==== which ROM version? ==== > which ROM version? 1.19-6. -jkh- ==== my hp48gx delivers the message invalid dimension when i multiplicate a line vector with a column vector, though i follow the necessary mathematic rules. the error is NOT due to my inability of caring about the commutative rule. it may be useful to show what i put in the matrix writer for example: [1] [ 8 7 3 ] x [5] [2] i hope some crack can help me. thanks for thinking. andy ==== my hp48gx delivers the message invalid dimension when i multiplicate > a line vector with a column vector, though i follow the necessary > mathematic rules. the error is NOT due to my inability of caring about > the commutative rule. it may be useful to show what i put in the > matrix writer for example: [1] > [ 8 7 3 ] x [5] > [2] i hope some crack can help me. > thanks for thinking. > to multiply two vectors, use DOT - faster than * Werner Huysegoms ==== my hp48gx delivers the message invalid dimension when i multiplicate > a line vector with a column vector, though i follow the necessary > mathematic rules. the error is NOT due to my inability of caring about > the commutative rule. it may be useful to show what i put in the > matrix writer for example: [1] > [ 8 7 3 ] x [5] > [2] i hope some crack can help me. > thanks for thinking. > to multiply two vectors, use DOT - faster than * > Werner Huysegoms The HP48 and 49 display vectors as rows, but treats them like columns for purposes of multiplication. Note vectors are one dimensional and show only one set of brackets,[ ]. Matrices are two dimensional (even if appearing one dimensional) and always have each row in brackets inside a second set of brackets, so [[1 2 3]] is 1 row and 3 columns, but [[1][2][3]] is three rows but only one column. [[ 1 2 3 ]] [1 2 3] will multiply properly giving [14] as result. [1 2 3] [[1][2][3]] is parsed as a column vector followed by a 3 by 1 matrix, and is not acceptable for multiplication. A j by k matrix followed by a k by n matrix will multiply to give a j by n matrix, A j by k matrix followed by a k-vector will multiply to give a j-vector No other matrix and/or vector combination will multiply using the * or matrix multiplication operation. ==== > my hp48gx delivers the message invalid dimension when i multiplicate > a line vector with a column vector, though i follow the necessary > mathematic rules. the error is NOT due to my inability of caring about > the commutative rule. it may be useful to show what i put in the > matrix writer for example: [1] > [ 8 7 3 ] x [5] > [2] i hope some crack can help me. > thanks for thinking. > to multiply two vectors, use DOT - faster than * > Werner Huysegoms The HP48 and 49 display vectors as rows, but treats them like > columns for purposes of multiplication. Note vectors are one dimensional and show only one set of > brackets,[ ]. Matrices are two dimensional (even if appearing one > dimensional) and always have each row in brackets inside a second > set of brackets, so [[1 2 3]] is 1 row and 3 columns, but > [[1][2][3]] is three rows but only one column. [[ 1 2 3 ]] [1 2 3] will multiply properly giving [14] as result. [1 2 3] [[1][2][3]] is parsed as a column vector followed by a 3 by > 1 matrix, and is not acceptable for multiplication. > A j by k matrix followed by a k by n matrix will multiply to give a > j by n matrix, A j by k matrix followed by a k-vector will multiply to give a > j-vector No other matrix and/or vector combination will multiply using the > * or matrix multiplication operation. thanks werner and virgil. now i can deal with the problem. bye. have a nice time Andy ==== andy the calculator boy escribi.97 en el mensaje my hp48gx delivers the message invalid dimension when i multiplicate > a line vector with a column vector, though i follow the necessary > mathematic rules. the error is NOT due to my inability of caring about > the commutative rule. it may be useful to show what i put in the > matrix writer for example: [1] > [ 8 7 3 ] x [5] > [2] > For getting the answer, write the vectors in matrix form [[8 7 3]] * [[1] [5] [2]] Deactivate the vector mode (B key) when in matrix editor ==== > andy the calculator boy escribi.97 en el mensaje my hp48gx delivers the message invalid dimension when i multiplicate > a line vector with a column vector, though i follow the necessary > mathematic rules. the error is NOT due to my inability of caring about > the commutative rule. it may be useful to show what i put in the > matrix writer for example: [1] > [ 8 7 3 ] x [5] > [2] For getting the answer, write the vectors in matrix form > [[8 7 3]] * [[1] [5] [2]] > Deactivate the vector mode (B key) when in matrix editor > THANKS a lot, RAUL. it was just like bingo. now it works. ==== We have iron tubes of l meters. We have to saw n pieces of different lenghts. Example: Tube lenght l = 12000 mm. n=10 Piece1: 4800mm Piece2: 2400mm Piece3: 1200mm piece4: 750mm Piece5: 200mm Piece6: 200mm Piece7: 8000mm Piece8: 8000mm Piece9: 4850mm Piece10: 1500mm How many tubes do I need and which pieces do I saw out of each tube so that I have as little loss as possible? And what will the loss of every used tube be? Is it possible to translate this into a program for the HP48 (User-RPL)? Stefaan..... ==== > We have iron tubes of l meters. We have to saw n pieces of different lenghts. > Example: > Tube lenght l = 12000 mm. > n=10 > Piece1: 4800mm > Piece2: 2400mm > Piece3: 1200mm > piece4: 750mm > Piece5: 200mm > Piece6: 200mm > Piece7: 8000mm > Piece8: 8000mm > Piece9: 4850mm > Piece10: 1500mm How many tubes do I need and which pieces do I saw out of each tube so > that I have as little loss as possible? And what will the loss of > every used tube be? Is it possible to translate this into a program for the HP48 > (User-RPL)? GSE1 for the HP48, by Jeff Duncombe (on Goodies Disk #3 and at hpcalc.org), a knapsack algorithm program optimized for precisely your type of problem, finds the same answer that Werner posted earlier. One of the benefits of GSE1 is that it lets you set a maximum tolerable error, which lets the program find solutions much faster. GSE1 is 170 bytes long. -Joe- ==== > GSE1 for the HP48, by Jeff Duncombe (on Goodies Disk #3 and at hpcalc.org), > a knapsack algorithm program optimized for precisely your type of problem, > finds the same answer that Werner posted earlier. One of the benefits of > GSE1 is that it lets you set a maximum tolerable error, which lets the > program find solutions much faster. GSE1 is 170 bytes long. -Joe- Well I couldn't let that pass, now could I? Here's the adaptation of KNAPSACK to accept any list, and a tolerance as well: @ KNAPSACK problem @ @ In : { object_sizes } knapsacksize tolerance @ Out: { fitting object_sizes } freespace @ @ The resulting list is such that the freespace is either less than or equal @ to tolerance, or minimal. @ If multiple solutions are possible, only the first found will be retained. @ @ Testcase : @ { 4370.5 12657.5 13505 14535.5 17603 17664 @ 34138 42642.5 61377.5 71925 } 131069.5 20. @ --> @ { 4370.5 13505 17664 34138 61377.5 } 14.5 @ @ check : #E6DAh (49) @ bytes : 297.5 @ test : 15.24_s @ 3.76_Mhz @ @ Werner Huysegoms 20021115 @ << 3. PICK SIZE { } -> o @ object_sizes f @ freespace t @ tolerance n @ nr_of_objects k @ knapsack << 0. f 0. WHILE @------------------------------------------------------------ @ NextSack @ In : Meta{CurrentKnapSack} %CurrentFreeSpace %CurrIndex-1 @ Out: Meta{NewKnapSack} %NewFreespace @------------------------------------------------------------ WHILE DUP n < REPEAT 1. + o OVER GET ROT SWAP DUP2 < { DROP SWAP } { - ROT 1. + SWAP 3. PICK } IFTE END DROP @------------------------------------------------------------ @ keep if Knapsack has a smaller FreeSpace than the previous @------------------------------------------------------------ IF DUP2 f < THEN 2. + DUPN 'f' STO ->LIST 'k' STO DUP t > END @------------------------------------------------------------ @ continue if FreeSpace > tol and CurrentKnapsack non-empty @------------------------------------------------------------ REPEAT @------------------------------------------------------------ @ DelLastOb @ Meta{ i j k } x -> Meta{ i j } x+o[k] k @------------------------------------------------------------ SWAP 1. - SWAP ROT o OVER GET ROT + SWAP END DROP DROPN @------------------------------------------------------------ @ construct result Knapsack @------------------------------------------------------------ k 1. << o SWAP GET > DOSUBS f > > Werner ==== We have iron tubes of l meters. We have to saw n pieces of different lenghts. > Example: > Tube lenght l = 12000 mm. > n=10 > Piece1: 4800mm > Piece2: 2400mm > Piece3: 1200mm > piece4: 750mm > Piece5: 200mm > Piece6: 200mm > Piece7: 8000mm > Piece8: 8000mm > Piece9: 4850mm > Piece10: 1500mm How many tubes do I need and which pieces do I saw out of each tube so > that I have as little loss as possible? And what will the loss of > every used tube be? Is it possible to translate this into a program for the HP48 > (User-RPL)? GSE1 for the HP48, by Jeff Duncombe (on Goodies Disk #3 and at hpcalc.org), > a knapsack algorithm program optimized for precisely your type of problem, > finds the same answer that Werner posted earlier. One of the benefits of > GSE1 is that it lets you set a maximum tolerable error, which lets the > program find solutions much faster. GSE1 is 170 bytes long. -Joe- The fast knapsack at hpcalc.org ( 48 and 49 version), partly made by Werner, in sys-rpl finds one solution in 1.4 sec ;-) -however, size is 411.5 bytes -Gjermund- ==== > We have iron tubes of l meters. We have to saw n pieces of different lenghts. > Example: > Tube lenght l = 12000 mm. > n=10 > Piece1: 4800mm > Piece2: 2400mm > Piece3: 1200mm > piece4: 750mm > Piece5: 200mm > Piece6: 200mm > Piece7: 8000mm > Piece8: 8000mm > Piece9: 4850mm > Piece10: 1500mm How many tubes do I need and which pieces do I saw out of each tube so > that I have as little loss as possible? And what will the loss of > every used tube be? Is it possible to translate this into a program for the HP48 > (User-RPL)? Stefaan..... I've been a bit too quick, too.. there is of course another solution for the knapsack: tube 1: {8000 2400 1200 200 200} The resulting tubes are similar tube 2: {4850 4800 1500 750} tube 3: {8000} Werner BTW the rpl knapsack program can be easily changed to accept any input list (not sorted ascendingly), and if I then give it the list sorted descendingly, it gives me tube 1 as above ==== > BTW the rpl knapsack program can be easily changed to accept any input list > (not sorted ascendingly), and if I then give it the list sorted descendingly, > it gives me tube 1 as above I love this forum! Stefaan.... ==== > We have iron tubes of l meters. We have to saw n pieces of different lenghts. > Example: > Tube lenght l = 12000 mm. > n=10 > Piece1: 4800mm > Piece2: 2400mm > Piece3: 1200mm > piece4: 750mm > Piece5: 200mm > Piece6: 200mm > Piece7: 8000mm > Piece8: 8000mm > Piece9: 4850mm > Piece10: 1500mm How many tubes do I need and which pieces do I saw out of each tube so > that I have as little loss as possible? And what will the loss of > every used tube be? Is it possible to translate this into a program for the HP48 > (User-RPL)? Stefaan..... This is the exact same problem as 'defragmenting the Flash'. There are a few solutions, none of them optimal (to find the optimal solution is only possible with backtracking, checking every possible combination, and is only feasible for small problems) One heuristic method is called 'Best Fit Descending', and goes as follows: sort the piece sizes in descending order, then: for piece i, determine the tube where it will fit 'best' ie leaves the smallest leftover piece. So, in your example: piece7: 8000 mm from tube1 (tube1 -> 4000 mm) piece8: 8000 mm from tube2 (tube2 -> 4000 mm) piece9: 4850 mm from tube3 (tube3 -> 7150 mm) piece1: 4800 mm from tube3 (tube3 -> 2350 mm) piece2: 2400 mm from tube1 (tube1 -> 1600 mm) piece10:1500 mm from tube1 (tube1 -> 100 mm) piece3: 1200 mm from tube3 (tube3 -> 1150 mm) piece4: 750 mm from tube3 (tube3 -> 400 mm) piece5: 200 mm from tube3 (tube3 -> 200 mm) piece6: 200 mm from tube3 (tube3 -> 0 mm) So you get tube1: { 8000 2400 1500 } tube2: { 8000 } tube3: { 4850 4800 1200 750 200 200 } Applying the knapsack algorithm to one tube at a time will take a lot more time, and does not necessarily come up with a better solution. (in this case, the solution is optimal and the knapsack algorithm finds tube3, the only way the pieces can combine to a full tube) rpl program for Best Fit Descending: rpl program for (a single) knapsack: @ KNAPSACK problem @ @ In : 2: { object_sizes sorted small to large } @ 1: knapsack_size @ Out: 2: { fitting object_sizes } @ 1: free_space @ @ The resulting list is such that the free_space is minimal. @ If multiple solutions are possible, only the first found will be retained. @ @ Testcase : @ { 4370.5 12657.5 13505 14535.5 17603 17664 @ 34138 42642.5 61377.5 71925 } 131069.5 @ --> @ { 4370.5 13505 17664 34138 61377.5 } 14.5 @ @ check : #CAC3h (49) @ bytes : 288.0 @ test : 40.97_s @ 3.76_Mhz -> 44366_b_s_Mhz @ @ Werner Huysegoms 20001004 @ << OVER SIZE { } -> o @ object_sizes f @ freespace n @ nr_of_objects k @ knapsack << 0. f 0. WHILE @------------------------------------------------------------ @ NextSack @ In : Meta{CurrentKnapSack} %CurrentFreeSpace %CurrIndex-1 @ Out: Meta{NewKnapSack} %NewFreespace @------------------------------------------------------------ WHILE DUP n < REPEAT 1. + o OVER GET ROT SWAP DUP2 < { ROT DROP2 n } { - ROT 1. + SWAP 3. PICK } IFTE END DROP @------------------------------------------------------------ @ keep if Knapsack has a smaller FreeSpace than the previous @------------------------------------------------------------ IF DUP2 f < THEN 2. + DUPN 'f' STO ->LIST 'k' STO DUP END @------------------------------------------------------------ @ continue if FreeSpace > 0 and CurrentKnapsack non-empty @------------------------------------------------------------ REPEAT @------------------------------------------------------------ @ DelLastOb @ Meta{ i j k } x -> Meta{ i j } x+o[k] k @------------------------------------------------------------ SWAP 1. - SWAP ROT o OVER GET ROT + SWAP END DROP DROPN @------------------------------------------------------------ @ construct result Knapsack @------------------------------------------------------------ k 1. << o SWAP GET > DOSUBS f > > Werner Huysegoms ==== > We have iron tubes of l meters. We have to saw n pieces of different lenghts. > Example: > Tube lenght l = 12000 mm. > n=10 > Piece1: 4800mm > Piece2: 2400mm [...] > How many tubes do I need and which pieces do I saw out of each tube so > that I have as little loss as possible? And what will the loss of > every used tube be? Is it possible to translate this into a program for the HP48 > (User-RPL)? Stefaan..... I believe what you're looking for is the Knapsack algorithm. Search knapsack in this page: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/math/misc/ Gerald. ==== > We have iron tubes of l meters. We have to saw n pieces of different lenghts. > Example: > Tube lenght l = 12000 mm. > n=10 > Piece1: 4800mm > Piece2: 2400mm > [...] > How many tubes do I need and which pieces do I saw out of each tube so > that I have as little loss as possible? And what will the loss of > every used tube be? Is it possible to translate this into a program for the HP48 > (User-RPL)? Stefaan..... I believe what you're looking for is the Knapsack algorithm. > Search knapsack in this page: > http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/math/misc/ Sorry, I was too quick :> This Knapsack algo would help you choose which small tubes to choose to fill up a given length. But you want the inverse: cut the big tubes into small ones... Sorry for the false hopes, I'll think about it a little more... Though the Knapsack could be a start: choose which small pieces will fit into the big one. Then see how much length left there is, and now the job is to find which small piece to cut to fill the remaining length... Anybody to rescue my pityful attempt? Good luck! Gerald. ==== Just don't move, Indiana Jones, or you'll keep sinking in the sand... Toby We have iron tubes of l meters. We have to saw n pieces of different lenghts. > Example: > Tube lenght l = 12000 mm. > n=10 > Piece1: 4800mm > Piece2: 2400mm > [...] > How many tubes do I need and which pieces do I saw out of each tube so > that I have as little loss as possible? And what will the loss of > every used tube be? Is it possible to translate this into a program for the HP48 > (User-RPL)? Stefaan..... I believe what you're looking for is the Knapsack algorithm. > Search knapsack in this page: > http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/math/misc/ Sorry, I was too quick : > This Knapsack algo would help you choose which small tubes to choose to fill up a > given length. > But you want the inverse: cut the big tubes into small ones... Sorry for the false hopes, I'll think about it a little more... > Though the Knapsack could be a start: choose which small pieces will fit into the > big one. > Then see how much length left there is, and now the job is to find which small piece > to cut to fill the remaining length... Anybody to rescue my pityful attempt? Good luck! > Gerald. ==== How much of a kerf are you going to need for your saw? Are you certain that it will cut straight enough that your cut will be at proper yield length? After answering these two questions, why go to the trouble of writing a program to do simple arithmetic? 12000-8000(P8)=4000, 4000-2400(P2)=1600, 1600-1200(P3)=400, 400-200(P5)=200(P6), total length needed is about 2-1/2 lengths at 12000mm. -- John Sullivan Jamlab Enterprises 978 725 5531 http://jamlab.home.att.net > We have iron tubes of l meters. We have to saw n pieces of different lenghts. > Example: > Tube lenght l = 12000 mm. > n=10 > Piece1: 4800mm > Piece2: 2400mm > Piece3: 1200mm > piece4: 750mm > Piece5: 200mm > Piece6: 200mm > Piece7: 8000mm > Piece8: 8000mm > Piece9: 4850mm > Piece10: 1500mm How many tubes do I need and which pieces do I saw out of each tube so > that I have as little loss as possible? And what will the loss of > every used tube be? Is it possible to translate this into a program for the HP48 > (User-RPL)? Stefaan..... ==== I«ve recently bought the hp 49 calculator as used (not from new, unfortunately), but I«ve often experienced that it without any reason somehow restarts in the middle of a calculation, when I press a key... It«s very annoying, and the time/date-functions on my calculator doesn«t work either, because after a week or something the calculator goes back to January 1991.................. And I can«t do nothing about it - so yesterday I tried to call my local HP-department to try to speak about what can be done. When I write WSLOG for the SYSTEM HALT LOG, I see mostly code A = Corrupt memory - Does anybody now what I should do from here, then??? Do I have to replace my memory? That sounds expensive..... I also see a code 3 = Execute through address 0 - anybody knows what this mean? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Martin Jorgensen. ==== I suppose that things would get much much better, if you would install the latest ROM. Anyway, the return of date to 1991 happens quite often when you have a crash, because even date/time can then be corrupt. If you set the current date/time and then directly after a crash use the command DATE you'll eventually see that date and time have been reset to their start. Go ahead and install the newest ROM, it is really worth it. Greetings, Nick. P.S. On the other hand, it could also be some library or libraries that is/are the reason(s) for the frequent warm starts. I«ve recently bought the hp 49 calculator as used (not from new, > unfortunately), but I«ve often experienced that it without any reason > somehow restarts in the middle of a calculation, when I press a key... It«s > very annoying, and the time/date-functions on my calculator doesn«t work > either, because after a week or something the calculator goes back to > January 1991.................. And I can«t do nothing about it - so > yesterday I tried to call my local HP-department to try to speak about what > can be done. When I write WSLOG for the SYSTEM HALT LOG, I see mostly code A = Corrupt > memory - Does anybody now what I should do from here, then??? > Do I have to replace my memory? That sounds expensive..... I also see a code 3 = Execute through address 0 - anybody knows what this > mean? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Martin Jorgensen. ==== > Anyway, the return of date to 1991 happens quite > often when you have a crash, because even date/time can then be > corrupt. If you set the current date/time and then directly after a > crash use the command DATE you'll eventually see that date and time > have been reset to their start. Bad, bad. Never happens with my TI-89 (or V200) :P -- P.S.: Just teasing... ==== Anyway, the return of date to 1991 happens quite > often when you have a crash, because even date/time can then be > corrupt. If you set the current date/time and then directly after a > crash use the command DATE you'll eventually see that date and time > have been reset to their start. Bad, bad. Never happens with my TI-89 (or V200) :P example politics and the like. ;-) Greetings, Nick. ==== I have downloaded the Emu48 1.30 eumulator for the HP49. I do not have an actual HP49 so I need to download an emulator ROM. The documentation says that there are emulator ROMs available at hpcalc.org, but I am not looking in the right place. I can find ROM updates with *.flash files, but I don't think that is what I am looking for. Can someone point me in the right direction for ==== Here it is: http://www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/product/emu119-6.zip ==== Craig Cox escribi.97 en el mensaje > I have downloaded the Emu48 1.30 eumulator for the HP49. I do not have > an actual HP49 so I need to download an emulator ROM. I downloaded the last 49's ROM from some site... that I don't remember. Look for it in the usual sites, like JYA's page, etc... You'll find it ==== The target of the program is to count pulses all the time (at the first task), and every 10 seconds to perform some calculation. DATE TIME << @ first task. . . > 10 UBASE UVAL 8192 * 4 ->LIST STOALARM DO @ every 10 seconds. . . UNTIL KEY END How to perform that? Any help will be appreciate. Tal ==== The target of the program is to count pulses all the time (at the first task), and every 10 seconds to perform some calculation. DATE TIME << @ every 10 seconds. . . > 10 UBASE UVAL 8192 * 4 ->LIST STOALARM DO @ first task. . . UNTIL KEY END Any help will be appreciated. Tal ==== I tried to Break the RPL structure of Core into a meta-object by this way: #054AFh SYSEVAL when the program was in the stack. I didn't success to find all the real value (for the modification), Why? Tal ==== the commando RclAssembly as he is used ?? ==== Only for information, the 4th part is ready and uploaded to hpcalc. But if someone wants to have the marathon from me, don't hesitate to Part 4 is solely about plotting sequences. Greetings, Nick. ==== Is there a ROM dump utility for the 49G? ==== schrieb im Newsbeitrag Is there a ROM dump utility for the 49G? http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=akdinn$1lp$04$1@news.t-online.com Christoph > ==== On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:26:26 +0100, Christoph Giesselink > schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Is there a ROM dump utility for the 49G? http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=akdinn$1lp$04$1@news.t-online.com Christoph ==== The Hp48 has a series of Rules transformations for manipulating subexpressions. For instance, you can move terms to the other side of the = sign using I can't find such rewriting commands on the HP49. Is this because they ==== > The Hp48 has a series of Rules transformations for manipulating > subexpressions. > For instance, you can move terms to the other side of the = sign using You can manipulate equation from within the Equation Writer Select a part of the equation using the up-arrow key and the direction key. Then hold the LeftShift key and use the arrow key (left or right) to select how you want to move the terms. So let say you just started the EQW: You type: SIN X , up, up, = , 2 (and you get SIN(X)=2) Pressing up arrow once will select the '2' You press and hold LeftShift while pressing LeftArrow and you get 2=SIN(X) It's much faster than what the HP48 used to do, and I believe way easier ==== The Hp48 has a series of Rules transformations for manipulating > subexpressions. > For instance, you can move terms to the other side of the = sign using You can manipulate equation from within the Equation Writer > Select a part of the equation using the up-arrow key and the direction key. > Then hold the LeftShift key and use the arrow key (left or right) to select > how you want to move the terms. So let say you just started the EQW: > You type: > SIN X , up, up, = , 2 > (and you get SIN(X)=2) > Pressing up arrow once will select the '2' > You press and hold LeftShift while pressing LeftArrow and you get 2=SIN(X) It's much faster than what the HP48 used to do, and I believe way easier I discovered this feature and it is much faster than the HP48, but it won't move terms across the = sign. The term-move ability of the HP48 will convert 0 = -1 + sin(x) to 1 = sin(x) it also does things like this: 1 = x*y becomes 1/x = y Hp48 was stolen although I am extremely pleased that I replaced it with the HP49. THe HP49's equation writer is almost incomparably faster but the rewriting options of the HP48 were well thought out and easy to use. I was hoping there was a hidden menu somewhere ...) ==== thanks. So we can A=B -> B=A in the EQW. But can we also A=B -> A-B=0? I can't find a way except of course writing something like: << EQ-> - 0 = > storing it for example in 'ALLLEFT' and adding it to the commands that STARTEQW will present in the EQW. Any other possibility? Greetings, Nick. The Hp48 has a series of Rules transformations for manipulating > subexpressions. > For instance, you can move terms to the other side of the = sign using You can manipulate equation from within the Equation Writer > Select a part of the equation using the up-arrow key and the direction key. > Then hold the LeftShift key and use the arrow key (left or right) to select > how you want to move the terms. So let say you just started the EQW: > You type: > SIN X , up, up, = , 2 > (and you get SIN(X)=2) > Pressing up arrow once will select the '2' > You press and hold LeftShift while pressing LeftArrow and you get 2=SIN(X) It's much faster than what the HP48 used to do, and I believe way easier ==== Tim Richardson escribi.97 en el mensaje > The Hp48 has a series of Rules transformations for manipulating > subexpressions. > For instance, you can move terms to the other side of the = sign using > Although I use MK on my 48, I can use those old 48 features because when I am in EQW pressing (again) LS EQUATION, the old equation editor environment appears. I'm afraid that the 49's MK doesn't let you do that... ==== > appears. I'm afraid that the 49's MK doesn't let you do that... Of course it does ! ==== appears. I'm afraid that the 49's MK doesn't let you do that... Of course it does ! Is there a way of moving a term from one side of an equal sign to the other side while in equationwriter? ==== Of course it does ! Not exactly, I must say. >So let say you just started the EQW: >You type: >SIN X , up, up, = , 2 >(and you get SIN(X)=2) >Pressing up arrow once will select the '2' >You press and hold LeftShift while pressing LeftArrow and you get 2=SIN(X) >It's much faster than what the HP48 used to do, and I believe way easier I can do all this in my 48 (with your MK) and I don't see why the 49 makes it faster... But entering in the old eq writer (pressing again LS EQUATION) I can get SIN(X)-2=0 and many many other transformations as described in pages 20-22 to 20-29 of my spanish user guide. I think this is what Tim is looking for. ==== > I can do all this in my 48 (with your MK) and I don't see why the 49 makes > it faster... The question was how to move a term left, to which you answered: You can't on the HP49 My comparison between the HP49 and the HP48 was an HP48 without the MK of course But entering in the old eq writer (pressing again LS EQUATION) I can get > SIN(X)-2=0 and many many other transformations as described in pages 20-22 > to 20-29 of my spanish user guide. > I think this is what Tim is looking for. Maybe, but that wasn't the question ==== ==== > Flash reserved for the operating system. Basically I'm thinking of a > way to store a random number there to replace the nonexistant internal > serial number found in the Chinese made calcs. > But your idea has possibilities too, thanks There are ways to hide some stuff in the flash. You could actually use a full flash bank for your own purpose and disable it for use by the user. I believe that not too many calculators are affected by the missing serial port. If you want more information, or would like me to consult for you, drop me ==== > Flash reserved for the operating system. Basically I'm thinking of a > way to store a random number there to replace the nonexistant internal > serial number found in the Chinese made calcs. > But your idea has possibilities too, thanks Even more complicated would be to store the number in flash and then purge it, it will still be there but you will need a special tool to get it. The drawback of this is that it may be deleted when you write something to flash again. -- ir. P.F.Geelhoed Delft University of Technology Laboratory for Aero & Hydrodynamics Leeghwaterstraat 21, 2628 CA Delft, The Netherlands +31-15-2786656 / +31-15-2782947 (fax) p.f.geelhoed@wbmt.tudelft.nl ==== ( a timing diagram would be ideal, but I dont have the tools to make it... :/ ) Meaning: If I do some DAT0=C B ( D0 pointing an even address ) Does the Saturn *Option 1 -Reads the byte -replaces the first quartet -write them to mem -re-reads the byte -replaces the second quartet or *Option 2 -Directly pokes the byte to the chip I'm trying to interface some ligoc ships with the Saturn throught HP48(gx) ports, and it does not work as it should... :/ Many thanks -- Nipo ==== www.hpcalc.org Nicolas Pouillon schrieb im Newsbeitrag ( a timing diagram would be ideal, but I dont have the tools to make > it... :/ ) Meaning: If I do some > DAT0=C B > ( D0 pointing an even address ) > Does the Saturn > *Option 1 > -Reads the byte > -replaces the first quartet > -write them to mem > -re-reads the byte > -replaces the second quartet or *Option 2 > -Directly pokes the byte to the chip > I'm trying to interface some ligoc ships with the Saturn throught > HP48(gx) ports, and it does not work as it should... :/ ==== >www.hpcalc.org ==== Maybe this could help: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1707 http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4923 http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1753 http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1693 I haven't checked them for their contents, but there's a chance that at least one them contains appriorate info. Otherwise you could ask Christoph Giesselink, which is more a hardware geek than me;-) Raymond Nicolas Pouillon schrieb im Newsbeitrag > Le Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:36:05 +0100 > Raymond Hellstern eut le bonheur > d'ecrire: www.hpcalc.org why I posted to the list. Do you have a precise URL ??? -- > Nipo ==== ==== > On a 49 hitting undo immediatly will restore an accidental deletion. That seems not to be true, at least not in RPN-mode. The undo key simply restores the last stack (provided the undo-function is active). As far as I know, the only way to regain the content of a purged file in RPN-mode is to use leftshift ENTER. This key runs ANS only in algebraic mode, but LASTARG in RPN mode. For the PURGE command, it returns name and content of the purged variable whenever flag -55 is clear. But for PGDIR it returns only the name. PGDIR purges the files of a directory piecewise, making a lot of reference testing (a reason why it is slow). Thus, a directory is lost after purging it, unless you made a HOME backup, best in port 2. Such a backup, even with date and time in the backup-name, is produced by Filer2. ==== ==== > I am a novice user of a HP48SX and accidentally hit the PGDIR menu > option in the MEMORY menu with the name of a very important directory > in level 1. The directory disappeared. Since then I have, in > frustration and anger, tried several commands and arguments and have > shut it off and back on again. I hereby admit a stupendous lack of > intelligence. Does anyone know of a way of recovering this directory > for your help. Matt Wentland > went1180@sover.net Sorry, Matt: Your dir has disappeared and there is no way for recovering it... A backup of your important stuff in your PC can be a good solution. ==== I bought a HP49 a week ago. According do info I came upon on the web, the serial number indicate that it was manufactured in week fourty-something of 1999!! That's two years ago. My first Question is about the ROM flash. I scrolled carefully through the directions on the web, and tried to follow it carefully to avoid what I am doing now, bothering people with probably stupid questions. I upgraded from ROM 1.18 to 1.19-6 and I was instructed to first save the contents of a certain 64KB of mem as a list object in the home directory. I followed the procedures, and checked that the list was created in my home directory. I flashed the ROM without any problems and when I had to do the last step, copying the contents of the list in the home directory back to some port or somewhere, I discovered that the list was empty???? Did I do something wrong, or was that 64KB of memory suppose to contain created-by-user stuff, that mine was empty, since the calculator was still brand new and never had user defined objects stored in it? I would be very gratefull if anyone can shed some light on this situation. On some websites a faulty serial port protection circuit is described. How do I know if my calculator (Since it is a 1999 model) is not one of those first editions with the faulty serial port? Where do I find good documentation/tutorials for the HP49G. Around here most people uses the 48 series. The documentation that comes along with the calculator does not seem to be so helpfull for the novice, first time HP owner. really impressed with this group. Kaspaas ==== > I bought a HP49 a week ago. According do info I came upon on the web, > the serial number indicate that it was manufactured in week > fourty-something of 1999!! That's two years ago. My first Question is about the ROM flash. I scrolled carefully through > the directions on the web, and tried to follow it carefully to avoid > what I am doing now, bothering people with probably stupid questions. I upgraded from ROM 1.18 to 1.19-6 and I was instructed to first save > the contents of a certain 64KB of mem as a list object in the home > directory. I followed the procedures, and checked that the list was > created in my home directory. I flashed the ROM without any problems > and when I had to do the last step, copying the contents of the list > in the home directory back to some port or somewhere, I discovered > that the list was empty???? Did I do something wrong, or was that 64KB > of memory suppose to contain created-by-user stuff, that mine was > empty, since the calculator was still brand new and never had user > defined objects stored in it? I would be very gratefull if anyone can > shed some light on this situation. You did it right, but as you guessed, the list was intended to contain objects that the user had stored in flash memory (port 2). Just purge the variable containing the list and the program that was meant to save those variables. > On some websites a faulty serial port protection circuit is described. > How do I know if my calculator (Since it is a 1999 model) is not one > of those first editions with the faulty serial port? I'll second that! You'll also see some nonsense posted, but someone will usually respond to the nonsense. d-9 ==== > In The Netherlands you cannot even buy HP-calculators anymore! There is no company here that want's to do bussiness (importing) with HP > (calculatordivision)! > Not true. A certain university-bookshop in Delft sells all of them!!! Aagje Can you post name and address of this shop, together with the prices > - Carsten Can't locate the address, but it's near the Delft Train Station (North of it just off Phoenixstraat) It's called TU Boekhandel Print I think. I could also get HP Calculators last time I looked at the Stationary/book store in the mall where I live in Voorburg. The had high end ones when I bought mine, but were out of the HP49... I keep going back to see if they have 49+ in yet, but they hadn't last time I looked. Al... ==== > > In The Netherlands you cannot even buy HP-calculators anymore! > > There is no company here that want's to do bussiness (importing) > with HP > > (calculatordivision)! > Not true. A certain university-bookshop in Delft sells all of them!!! Aagje Can you post name and address of this shop, together with the prices > - Carsten > > Can't locate the address, but it's near the Delft Train Station (North of it > just off Phoenixstraat) > It's called TU Boekhandel Print I think. > > I could also get HP Calculators last time I looked at the Stationary/book > store in the mall where I live in Voorburg. The had high end ones when I > bought mine, but were out of the HP49... I keep going back to see if they > have 49+ in yet, but they hadn't last time I looked. Here you go -- TU Boekhandel Prins Binnenwatersloot 30 2611 BK Delft phone +31 15 2131551 They don't have a website AFAIK. BTW I didn't know there were any malls in Voorburg? ~:^) Jos ==== > TU Boekhandel Prins > Binnenwatersloot 30 > 2611 BK Delft > phone +31 15 2131551 > > They don't have a website AFAIK. BTW I didn't know there were any malls > in Voorburg? ~:^) > > > Jos - Carsten ==== Well.. not exactly Voorburg.. Leidsenhage Mall.. but Leidsendam and Voorburg are the same place now anyways... Sorry for any miss-spellings of Dutch names.. I'm too lazy to check to see If I have them right. Al... > Here you go -- TU Boekhandel Prins > Binnenwatersloot 30 > 2611 BK Delft > phone +31 15 2131551 They don't have a website AFAIK. BTW I didn't know there were any malls > in Voorburg? ~:^) > Jos ==== > I keep reading that the latest ROM UPDATE for the HP49 is 1-19.7 Where is this > ROM update available?? I have been unable to find any reference to it in > HPCALC. Any suggestions?? > GC I have 1-19-7 loaded in my old HP49. It has been running in it for some time but I no longer have a link to the site I got it from. I don't use it much now that I have the 49G+ but it seems to work fine and fixed a few problems with 1-19-6 but I don't remember the details. I think it was a beta version. Jerry -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -- Jerry Petrey -- Senior Principal Systems Engineer - Navigation (GPS/INS), Guidance, & Control -- Raytheon Missile Systems - Member Team Ada & Team Forth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ==== To my knowledge, the HP48G family has had a number of variations over its life: OS level, type of display('green' vs black ), type of keys (screen vs double-shot). Has anyone compiled a history/table/list of type of display, type of keys, OS level and at what serial number level these changes occurred? Tom ==== 49G+. One of my library components utilized a call to the 48 series romword $>BIGGROB (@11CF3) which converts a string to a grob using the large font (5x9). I'm not able to compile the program on my 49G+ as $>BIGGROB apparently is no longer defined in the 49 series. Any thoughts from the gurus here on what I might do? It'd be nice if the 48 romword was a series of sysrpl calls but it's an mcode entry with lots of gosubs.... ==== > 49G+. > > One of my library components utilized a call to the 48 series romword > $>BIGGROB (@11CF3) which converts a string to a grob using the large > font (5x9). I'm not able to compile the program on my 49G+ as > $>BIGGROB apparently is no longer defined in the 49 series. > > Any thoughts from the gurus here on what I might do? > > It'd be nice if the 48 romword was a series of sysrpl calls but it's > an mcode entry with lots of gosubs.... http://zon.wins.uva.nl/~dominik/hpcalc/entries/hp49g/entries_162.html#SEC162 - Carsten ==== > 49G+. > > One of my library components utilized a call to the 48 series romword > $>BIGGROB (@11CF3) which converts a string to a grob using the large > font (5x9). I'm not able to compile the program on my 49G+ as > $>BIGGROB apparently is no longer defined in the 49 series. > > Any thoughts from the gurus here on what I might do? > > It'd be nice if the 48 romword was a series of sysrpl calls but it's > an mcode entry with lots of gosubs.... $>GROB ? I assume it's what you want to do... It's address 25F7C There's also $>GROBCR ... but I don't know what the difference is. That one is at address 25F86 ==== > 49G+. One of my library components utilized a call to the 48 series romword > $>BIGGROB (@11CF3) which converts a string to a grob using the large > font (5x9). I'm not able to compile the program on my 49G+ as > $>BIGGROB apparently is no longer defined in the 49 series. Any thoughts from the gurus here on what I might do? Use size 8 font instead - the 49G OS supports only sizes 6, 7, and 8 ==== > What is the best ROM to download in the HP 49G? I tried the 1.18 and get some impressive bugs. > I now download and use the 1.19-6 version but this version seems to be not > an official one? > Do you know an other version? Where can I find it? Don't worry - be happy! Just use the 1.19-6 - like rest of us. ==== > I was wondering about the same thing > Maybe JYA will explain in detail how the build-in editor works... > With a lot of examples, please? > Wolfgang (who is an expert in editors) > could maybe give additional examples... Very easy. I designed this command in StringWriter v2; it allows you to see in one pages all the MASD labels. So if you have a line like this: *MyLabel1 C=DAT0.A D0+1 *MyLabel2 Calling LABEL will show you: MyLabel1 MyLabel2 Your line just have to start with * to be shown in the list. Jeam-Yves ==== > I was wondering about the same thing > Maybe JYA will explain in detail how the build-in editor works... > With a lot of examples, please? > Wolfgang (who is an expert in editors) > could maybe give additional examples... Very easy. > I designed this command in StringWriter v2; it allows you to see in one > pages all the MASD labels. > So if you have a line like this: *MyLabel1 > C=DAT0.A D0+1 > *MyLabel2 Calling LABEL will show you: > MyLabel1 > MyLabel2 Your line just have to start with * to be shown in the list. Where in the > 1000 pages of manuals I can find this information? How about a $$ Reference Manual where every single operation in menus are explained with examples AND the RCLMENU number is given plus a menu path to that menu, etc. ==== If you dont mind my asking, where is it that you get this sort of info from??? (Matt) M@ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary, and those who cant. ==== > If you dont mind my asking, where is it that you get this sort of info > from??? > > (Matt) > M@ > For example here: http://zon.wins.uva.nl/~dominik/hpcalc/entries/hp39g/entries_146.html#SEC146 http://zon.wins.uva.nl/~dominik/hpcalc/entries/hp39g/entries_144.html#SEC144 6 digit numbers are rompointers. The numbers are in HEX representation, the first 3 digits show the command number, the last 3 digits the library number. Hope this helps. - Carsten ==== orphan posts that never got a reply! I'n my humble opinion, if you can come M@ ==== I saw a message a few days ago about a potential rom version 1.23. I only found one mention of this new version anywhere else. Is there a new version, or are people just accidentally saying 1.23 instead of 1.22? -Gus ==== > I saw a message a few days ago about a potential rom version 1.23. I > only found one mention of this new version anywhere else. Is there a > new version, or are people just accidentally saying 1.23 instead of > 1.22? 1.23 is being shipped installed in new calculators. HP has said a new version ROM will be available in mid-January and people seem to think it will be 1.24. We'll have to wait and see. Tom Lake -- Capaci Occasio ==== I don't know if anyone else noticed (or maybe it's just on my calculator) but the buzzer is very quiet. I needed (ok, wanted) it to be louder, so I opened the calculator (I can do it with just my fingernails!), removed the buzzer from its mount, and stuck it, with the tape already on it, to the metal sheet (I put it right above the reset button). I made sure the wires didn't get in the way of anything (ie the reset button) and snapped it back together. It does indeed make it louder, but I'm just wondering if it could mess something up. That metal sheet is apparently used for something judging by the trouble they went through to connect it to things (the mesh wire over foam). So is there any risk of interfering with something... or worse? ==== > So is there any risk of interfering with something... or worse? You should be allright. The metal plate is just there to prevent electro magnetic interference as required by some standard like the US FCC or European CE label. ==== > Je suis en train de programmer un ensemble d'outils pour estimer la perte de > charge dans les tuyauteries bas.8ee sur diff.8erents bouquins et > particuli.8frement Idel'Cik. Avez vous connaissance de programmes similaires ? > If you're hoping for an answer, you better post in English ==== > Je suis en train de programmer un ensemble d'outils pour estimer la perte de > charge dans les tuyauteries bas.8ee sur diff.8erents bouquins et > particuli.8frement Idel'Cik. Avez vous connaissance de programmes similaires ? If you're hoping for an answer, you better post in English Why? All he wants to know is if there are programs to compute pressure loss in pipes similar to the ones he's writing, using formulas from some book called Idel'Cik(?) I'm sure there are many who read this newsgroup who can understand him perfectly. Tom Lake -- Capaci Occasio ==== > Je suis en train de programmer un ensemble d'outils pour estimer la > perte de > charge dans les tuyauteries bas.8ee sur diff.8erents bouquins et > particuli.8frement Idel'Cik. Avez vous connaissance de programmes > similaires ? If you're hoping for an answer, you better post in English > > Why? All he wants to know is if there are programs to compute pressure loss > in pipes similar to the ones he's writing, using formulas from some book > called Idel'Cik(?) That's not obvious at all for any non french speaking people. ==== > If you're hoping for an answer, you better post in English Why? All he wants to know is if there are programs to compute pressure loss > in pipes similar to the ones he's writing, using formulas from some book > called Idel'Cik(?) That's not obvious at all for any non french speaking people. Oh well, IMHO, I believe everyone on Earth should learn to speak some French if only to annoy Frenchmen with our atrocious accents! 8-) Tom Lake ==== > Noon will not lock up the way you described when exiting Noon by > pressing a key very short (staccato). If an unshifted key is assigned, > e.g., with a long-hold functionality, you are in danger. The only fixing > which comes to my mind at present is to have a real about 500 in KEYTIME > to prevent bouncing. But this may make the keys somewhat slower. Still this doesn't sound that how you test the keyboard is actually correct. There shouldn't be any need to use a paper clip. Can't you simply re-enabled the interrupts? at least you could use ON-C to restart ==== They're having good offers on esp. 48GX RAM: 2MB just a little over 100 EUR!! http://www.cynox.de/cynox/en.katalog.php#HP -------------- ÀÎÅÍ.b3[CapitalYAc ute] Ä«¸®.bdº¸[P aragraph] KORNET ------------- ==== Works on w98SE for me too. As a stated in an earlier post I did have trouble with multiple paths with the same name because I had other HP drivers and software installed, but sorting that out fixed it. A (belated) good new year to the group Chic (CN 33104097) > Maybe those bastards at hp should buy me windows xp, or at least a SD > and reader. After all, it says it works with windows 98. Ridiculous. There are numerous USB issues with Windows 98, This is not just an HP problem! Maybe you should check the Microsoft site and investigate the numerous problems with Windows 98 and USB before you speak so > strongly! If you have Windows 98 SE, and use the latest version of drivers and software from the HP Web, it will work. If you have Windows and the VIA chipset, there is a Microsoft patch that is supposed to help. > Which Windows 98 do you have? > Did you look into Device Manager under USB to see if it shows a VIA chipset? > Did you install the latest HP drivers and Build 2118 of Conn4x? -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Bill Graves RKBA! > bgraves@ix.netcom.com ==== Veli-Pekka Nousiainen What will the new HP 50 have that the 49 hasn't? I mean: the 49 has more > than 2.300 functions, they say. So what the heck is it lacking still? You should consider the Libraries you already have to do a much more with this HP49G+. :0 ==== > It seems to work for me. Maybe not the first time but it does seem to > fix keys. Long term fix? I'll keep you posted. > > Roland HHooooo.....!! Now its running.... Now my keyboark is repeating the key strokes, twice or three times, in the same shot. Is there any way to make the repeating keystroke slower? My fat fingers can«t move that fast. Daniel P.8erez ==== > It seems to work for me. Maybe not the first time but it does seem to > fix keys. Long term fix? I'll keep you posted. Roland > HHooooo.....!! Now its running.... Now my keyboark is repeating the key strokes, twice or three times, in > the same shot. Is there any way to make the repeating keystroke > slower? My fat fingers can«t move that fast. Maybe setting 800 ->KEYTIME will help, perport please ==== I would like to hear your opinion about the noise comes from the keyboard since lately I contacted HP in the issue and I would like to know is it an individual problem or a global one. So: How is your noise ? Idan ==== I would like to hear your opinion about the noise comes from the > keyboard since lately I contacted HP in the issue and I would like to > know is it an individual problem or a global one. So: How is your noise ? It's a globals problem if you are - say - in a public library The previous models had a much more quiet keyboard Maybe the holloe space inside the shell and also the keys could be filled with some soft of foam? ==== I know that there are quite a few functions to calculate dates in the hp but I have never found one that can tell me if a date in a Monday, Tuesday or whatever. Is there one? Is there anything better than this: DAY :: %12 xTSTR FOUR 1_#1-SUB$ ; Arnaud ==== > I know that there are quite a few functions to calculate dates in the > hp but I have never found one that can tell me if a date in a Monday, > Tuesday or whatever. > Is there one? > Is there anything better than this: > > DAY >:: > %12 > xTSTR > FOUR > 1_#1-SUB$ > ; > > > Arnaud Try this little assembly program: http://www.fi.tartu.ee/danli97/hp48/hp48_demo2.html -- Daniel ==== On the 48GX try this :: DATE PTR D2F0 ; Chuck -- ==== I have written quite a bit of user RPL programming for the 48gx that I use almost daily (about 138K at any given time on the calculator). And I was wondering if I would be able to transfer the programs straight over to the 49g+. All of the programs are in library form and they call routines from the other libraries on nearly every command. I think that I used one or two sysevals in there somewhere but they were for supported entry points ( display routines ~~ I think). I'm looking into the 49g+ incase my 48 dies but if I have to rewrite the programs I will just have to Lee Murrison ==== Its good to know that transferring the programs should be fairly simple. Does anyone have a simple method of solving a circle if you have the arc and the chord. the closest I get is about 7 seconds worth of waiting?? Anyone got a routine that will do it faster on a 48gx?? ( radius, decimal degrees, arc, chord, mid-ordinate ) Lee ==== To port your programs to the 49g+ you would have to split your libraries with libary splitter programs readily available on http://www.hpcalc.org Then you would transfer them in ASCII mode to your PC. Then you would transfer them to the 49g+ Then you would search all the syseval (easy with the builtin search function) and look in an entry point table (available on hpcalc.org) which is the new adress and replace it. Then you would rebuild the library. It may take you a couple of hours to do this if you are not experienced but it is not very hard. Just make sure you do it before your 48 dies Arnaud > I have written quite a bit of user RPL programming for the 48gx that I use > almost daily (about 138K at any given time on the calculator). > And I was wondering if I would be able to transfer the programs straight > over to the 49g+. All of the programs are in library form and they > call routines from the other libraries on nearly every command. I think that > I used one or two sysevals in there somewhere but they were for supported > entry points ( display routines ~~ I think). I'm looking into the 49g+ > incase my 48 dies but if I have to rewrite the programs I will just have to Lee Murrison > ==== > I have written quite a bit of user RPL programming for the 48gx that I use > almost daily (about 138K at any given time on the calculator). > And I was wondering if I would be able to transfer the programs straight > over to the 49g+. All of the programs are in library form and they > call routines from the other libraries on nearly every command. I think that > I used one or two sysevals in there somewhere but they were for supported > entry points ( display routines ~~ I think). I'm looking into the 49g+ > incase my 48 dies but if I have to rewrite the programs I will just have to > Move the RPL source in ASCII format to the PC and download using the latest conn4x, which supports ASCII over X-modem, found on HP support pages using search. The entry points you have sort out yourself. Maybe you could use the new DEBUG4 PC development system for 48/49 It supports both systems in a convenient and almost transparent way. ==== My question! Can i send the plot on a pC via IRDA. Normally my PC find the pda or the phone, also they can't identify the protocoll. I can't see the Ir-diode on my HP. I think it's nearly the USB port. It's protected?Flag 33 is selected and 34 print via IR also. Saro ==== Manel. 3m = = = = = = 3m. |-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----| 1 T/m |-----------------------------------------------| 3 a 4 b 5 c 7 d 9 e 11 f 13 g 15 h 17 O-----O-----O-----O-----O-----O-----O-----O-----O ----- | /| | /| | /| | / | | / | | / | | / | | / | 2m | / | | / | | / | | / | | / | | / | | / | | / | O-----O-----O-----O-----O-----O-----O ----- 2| 6 8 10 12 14 16 | | | | | | | 6m | | | | | (60 DEG) | 1 | 0 18 ---- --- --- There are a distribuited force of 1 Tones per meter. ------------------------------------ I had entered following data: Type: TRUSS node 1 (3,8) node 18 (24.46,8) Support matrix 1 1 1 1 18 1 1 0 Properties (2) 1 1 1 1 1 1 property 2 is applied to members a throw h I use Wizard Selfweight generator tool. In this case is equivalent to distribuited force. I enter data [0 1] Other members has no selfweight. On this way 8 MLZ has been created (1 per member a-h). Fem shows this MLZ matrix: 1 1 1 0 0 . . 8 1 1 0 0 Last column (distance 2 (d2)) seems to have a bug. I think it must show 3 meters instead 0 m. I Edit the d2 column as following. 1 1 1 0 3 . . 8 1 1 0 3 Push SCALC and FEM49 shows an error. SCALC Error - Undefined Result. What I am doing badly? ---- I have calculated manualy: Y1=12 T X1=6.93 T M1=41.57 T*m R18=13.86 T (Y18=12 T, X18=-6.93 T) (I dont know if they are good results) I have instaled all plug-ins (print, wizard, etc.) HP49G whith ROM 1-19.6 ------------- Anybody knows the translation into english of? Articulaci.97n Empotramiento coacciones, grados de libertad, momento axico, axile, cortantes and words related to structures. Thanx so much to everybody of this group (and spanish too) and happy new year. Gooooooood-bye! ==== Does anyone know of a *reliable* method (ie one that is programmable on a pc) for RPN to algerbraic conversion and visa versa? M@ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary, and those who cant. ==== > Does anyone know of a *reliable* method (ie one that is programmable on a > pc) for RPN to algerbraic conversion and visa versa? > > M@ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary, > and those who cant. > > Well, the RPN -> algebraic conversion is easy. Just open up an emulator on the computer and type in the commands. Then press UP EDIT (one of the soft menus). Voila. Now, of couse, I have NO idea how to go the other way, except by brain. -MrM ==== would like to know of a method for conversion, like an algorythm, a basic series of steps to achive a dersired goal. That way I can program the method into some software that I am writing. My mistake. M@ ==== > would like to know of a method for conversion, like an algorythm, a basic > series of steps to achive a dersired goal. That way I can program the method > into some software that I am writing. > > My mistake. Any good CS textbook has the method. I suggest you use google to seach university course notes. If you can't find one, I can scan a few pages cheers,Al ==== C++ which is fantastic (well, im not sue of the quality of the code yet, but at least its a start!) !!! However, as I feared, I havent found much going the other way!!! M@ -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary, and those who cant. I > would like to know of a method for conversion, like an algorythm, a basic > series of steps to achive a dersired goal. That way I can program the method > into some software that I am writing. My mistake. > Any good CS textbook has the method. I suggest you use google to seach > university course notes. If you can't find one, I can scan a few pages cheers,Al ==== > I believe the 49G+ has a 16 bit processor while the 89 is an 8 bit. > (subtract 1 from 0 when in hex mode and count the F's) > You believe badly. > The 49G+ has a 32 bits CPU, while the TI89 has a 16/32 bits CPU. The TI-89 has a CPU with 32-bit registers, 8-, 16-, and 32-bit arithmetic and logical instructions, and 16-bit wide memory. It has to run two 16-bit bus cycles to do a 32-bit memory read or write. Calling it a 16/32 bits CPU is in some sense reasonable. The HP 49G+ has a CPU (ARM920T core based Samsung S3C2410X) with 32-bit registers, 32-bit arithetic and logical instructions, and 16-bit wide memory (SST39VF160 flash, BSI BS616LV4010 SRAM) It has to run two 16-bit bus cycles to do a 32-bit memory read or write. Interestingly enough, Samsung themselves call it a 16/32-Bit RISC architecture. What they're referring to is the instruction size, 32 bits in native ARM mode vs. 16 bits in Thumb mode. The HP 49G+ CPU runs faster than the TI-89, but much of the code in the HP is Saturn code running on a simulator, so the performance gain is not as much as one might hope for. ==== > Just wondering has anyone heard when the 33S will be released. Hopefully after they fix the keyboard layout/styling. Blech! ==== > $>GROB ? I assume it's what you want to do... It's address 25F7C > > There's also $>GROBCR ... but I don't know what the difference is. > That one is at address 25F86 $>GROBCR keeps the carriage returns, $>GROB doesn't. However, it seems that they both make the grob with the current font, not the largest. And you probably don't need it, but there's also $>grob for using the mini font (as well as $>grobcr).