HP-16 > This is a 12C non platinum model. John I have one of those with serial number CN23401950 - I suppose that means it was made in week 34, last year. > It seems very cheaply made; the keys rattle when I lightly > shake it. Ahha, I have the same quality here. But, I think all the Voyagers have a bit of key rattle - especially the ENTER key. > Not at all as well made as my 1 year old 12C made > in Malaysia. If this is genuine, it is a real disappointment > and HP really has gone way downhill. It's all too easy to go downhill :( My serial number is blind stamped on the sloping bit of the case on the back, on the top, above where it says http://www.hp.com/calculators/ You should put yours on Ebay as a collector's item :) I have seen another 12C with no serial number, but this is a 12C clone called the Aurora FN1000 - probably none of them have serial numbers. ==== Not a must if you have a PocketPC or some other device that reads SD cards and can be accessed by the PC... :) > >>Also is an SD card reader for my computer useful? > > ^^^^^^/writer That shouldn't be a problem for the PC... Windows handles it fine when you change things on a PocketPC that's connected in such a fashion - it just updates as if you'd changed the contents of any drive... Now, dynamically converting the HP's memory to a USB mass storage device compliant format would be another issue... > > In addition, hell would break loose when you start creating temporary object > in the calculator memory and therefore change the free space on the 'virtual > drive' (which is not something that the PC will be able to handle).... > > > ==== As a side note, the screen looks beautiful, sharp and with little/no glare. I must get one of these calculators when they come out :) Al ==== > HA!! > I thought I was the only one. I'm sure you're not. > Now you have a chance to join the group > (It is comprised of all of us who got no sleep the night before the 49g+ was > delivered out of anticipation, and then got no sleep the night it was > delivered from finally getting to play with it.) Serves us both right! Well, I don't expect to lose that much sleep in anticipation. Just the time that it takes to read the newsgroup to try to get some advance information and peruse the downloaded PDF documentation a bit. I don't expect the delivery until late tomorrow afternoon or perhaps evening, and nothing I can do now would help it to get here any faster. But I do expect to be up rather late tomorrow. It reminds me of my six-year old grandnephew's experience. He wanted (again) to know when his mom would get home; I showed him the clock and explained that I expected Mom to get home about when the minute hand moved from here all the way around to here. He said, But that hand's not moving! Only this shiny hand's moving! He seemed very skeptical when I told him that it really was moving, but so slowly that it was hard to see. I guess that he thought that it was just another of those fibs that grownups tell little kids when they'd rather not tell them the truth. After playing for a while, he looked at it and said, Hey! Look! It moved!, and after a while, It moved again! When his mom (after a long time, in a six-year-old's opinion) got home, he told her, Mom! Guess what! That black pointer thing on the clock moves! But only when nobody's looking at it! Clocks are pretty tricky. > You are so right about the documentation. I couldn't find much in there > about the SD cards at all. I found the documentation for the 28S to be pretty good, although Insights may well have been an even bigger help to understanding it. The 48SX needed the additional purchase of the Programmer's Reference Manual. The 48GX's Quick Start and User's Guide were very disappointing. I didn't find it that hard to learn, but I had prior experience and I ordered the extra manual along with the calculator. Could a beginner really learn to use it well without the additional purchase of the Advanced User's Reference Manual? And even then.... The 49G..., well, what can I say, even with the Advanced User's Guide, there's a lot of information missing, and what's there is poorly organized. I feel sorry for anyone who owns one and isn't using the non-HP online resources. Even worse for a beginner with no prior experience; I suspect that a lot of 49Gs were set aside with an emphatic Never again! because the user just didn't have adequate documentation readily available. I fear that once I really dig into it, the 49g+'s documentation may be even worse. To be sure, it does look like a lot of pages, but I wonder how much useful information will be on those pages, and how much will be left out. Hmm. I just searched for the command PVARS in both PDFs, and Adobe Reader didn't find it; that seems like a bad sign. Would they have removed that command? Or did they just neglect to document it? The more I look, the more it looks like the sorry example of the 48G Series User's Guide, but without the saving availability of the Advanced User's Reference Manual. Here (on page 804) is something interesting: References for non-CAS commands The help facility contains entries for all the commands developed for the CAS (Computer Algebra System). There is a large number of other functions and commands that were originally developed for the HP 48G series calculators that are not included in the help facility. Good references for those commands are the HP 48G Series User's Guide (HP Part No. 00048-90126) and the HP 48G Series Advanced User's Reference Manual (HP Part No. 00048-90136) both published by Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon, in 1993. Well, I can very easily live with them not being included in the help facility, but I would expect *everything* to be included in the documentation. 856 pages and they left things out? Heck, make it twice as long if that's what it takes, but don't leave things out! Let me get this straight. Suppose that someone who has never even seen an HP calculator before purchases one, but for good references for anything other than the CAS, he's expected to purchase the documentation for the 48G series? Does HP even make that available any more? Can these people actually be serious? Maybe HP should publish the good references as PDF documents and make them available for download from the same page as the 49g+'s documentation. And put them on the CD. And, if I recall correctly, relatively few functions and commands ...were originally developed for the HP 48G series.... Wasn't almost everything in the 48G series inherited from its predecessors? And I notice that it seems that the writer(s) must've taken a course in English as a second language. They really ought to write the documentation starting with the premise that the user may never have tried to use any RPL calculator before, and that on the other hand, some users will have had extensive previous experience and would appreciate a What's new in this model? section. And include such minor details as what all of the system flags and reserved variables do. And obviously such details as Which SD cards will work in this device? And have it edited by a native speaker of whichever language it's written in. > : Maybe someone else will be good enough to respond. Offhand, my advice > : would be that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. > > ***Usually the very best advice, but I wanted to determine whether my 49g+ > would format the big SD card successfully, and I wanted to run this test > sometime when a failure would not cause any loss of real (maybe that should > say valuable) data. Yes, I see your point. Sort of like learning how to archive and especially how to restore your data before you have anything important to archive and restore. Best to learn how to do it before you really have to do it. I feared that the 49g+'s formatting might be limited to cards up a maximum of 128MB, and the only way to use a larger card would be to format it with some other device. And of course formatting, unless the calculator simply refused to do anything with the card, would be expected to lead to the loss of whatever was on it. I wonder whether anyone has actually tried a card formatted as FAT32. > It worked well. I'm glad to hear that. > It's just my own brain that cannot be > trusted.*** The brain is a marvelous device, but it does indeed seem somewhat buggy and all too often comes to incorrect conclusions. But it's amazing how much it can do with so little information. > : > : Is this your 256MB card? > : > ***Yes, it is. And you formatted it ok with the 49g+? Or did you format it using some other device? > I found the Panasonic brand for sale at WalMart for just at > $98. Its cost in dollars per megabyte of capacity was half that of smaller > cards such as the 32MB card, and that's why I picked the largest card they > had for sale. For convenience, I suspect that an 8MB or 16MB card may prove > superior, if only in the speed of sorting, repairing a directory, and > completing searches for an erasure. 256MB also makes little sense unless HP > enables a directory/subdirectory structure in a future ROM release. Argh! No directory/subdirectory structure!? Does that mean that I'm limited to however many files I can keep track of in a root directory? Presumably 512 entries? Or does the 49g+ use a sequential object storage method as on its predecessors with no directory at all? That would, it seems to me, mean that the 49g+ would have to look at each and every object on the card to see what's there. That may have been acceptable on previous models, but considering the large capacities of SD cards, it seems like a considerable disadvantage on the 49g+. ==== Well, I don't know SysRPL or anything, but I learned how to use the 48G without the advanced manual, when I was in my senior year of high school, because I knew that the University of Missouri - Rolla, where I would be attending, recommended it. It isn't all that difficult to learn how to use the 48G/GX with just the User's Guide. You don't, of course, know every single command, etc. and the Advanced manual certainly has value, but... > > The 48GX's Quick Start and User's Guide were very disappointing. I > didn't find it that hard to learn, but I had prior experience and I > ordered the extra manual along with the calculator. Could a beginner > really learn to use it well without the additional purchase of the > Advanced User's Reference Manual? And even then.... > ==== 1. And you formatted it ok with the 49g+? Or did you format it using some other device? ***I formatted it using only the HP-49g+. I did not format it using some other device. (However, I hope to be able over this weekend to sic ComputerBaby--a Libretto 100CT--on it to see if it can be formatted on a PC and if so what the effects will be. I am quite confident now that everything will be fine, except for answer two, below.) 2. Argh! No directory/subdirectory structure!? Does that mean that I'm limited to however many files I can keep track of in a root directory? Presumably 512 entries? ***Yes, I suspect that we will all bang heads up against the 512 entry barrier. Just like the single sided 160KB floppies formatted under DOS 1.0's file management system. Although there is a slight capacity variance between a 160KB device and a 256MB storage device. However, just like Pandora, who looked in the bottom of her box and found only one thing: hope; there is not quite a promise from Hewlett Packard who says in one of the manuals that the problem could be fixed in a future ROM image release but that they were not committing to make a future change to the machine's ROM. Sorry, but no time to write any more, James. Jim Chumbley ==== > Argh! No directory/subdirectory structure!? > Does that mean that I'm limited to however > many files I can keep track of in a root > directory? Presumably 512 entries? > Yes, I suspect that we will all bang heads > up against the 512 entry barrier. ... Not to worry! You *can* use subdirectories, once they're there. ROM 1.22 cannot *create* them, apparently, but you can create them with a PC and an SD card reader, after which the 49g+ can store into 'em and read from 'em just fine. -Joe- ==== > Not to worry! You *can* use subdirectories, once they're there. ROM > 1.22 cannot *create* them, apparently, but you can create them with a > PC and an SD card reader, after which the 49g+ can store into 'em and > read from 'em just fine. Now that I think about it, that seems to mean that the only thing that might be missing from the 1.22 ROM to make full use of a subdirectory structure would be a MKDIR (MD) command. Well, also a RMDIR (RD) command to delete all files from the subdirectory before the subdirectory itself is deleted, and protection from the PURGE command so that you can't purge a non-empty subdirectory. And what distinguishes a subdirectory from any other file? A single attribute bit. No, wait, the first two entries, pointing to itself and its parent. And of course the entries, but apparently the 49g+ already knows how to handle the entries. It doesn't seem as if it should be all that hard. No doubt it could be designed so that the CRDIR and PGDIR commands would know that they should create or purge DOS-type subdirectories when the name is tagged with a 3. -- James ==== > Not to worry! You *can* use subdirectories, once they're there. ROM > 1.22 cannot *create* them, apparently, but you can create them with a > PC and an SD card reader, after which the 49g+ can store into 'em and > read from 'em just fine. a card and card reader. -- James ==== > > 1. And you formatted it ok with the 49g+? Or did you format it using some > other device? > ***I formatted it using only the HP-49g+. I did not format it using some > other device. (However, I hope to be able over this weekend to sic > ComputerBaby--a Libretto 100CT--on it to see if it can be formatted on a PC > and if so what the effects will be. I am quite confident now that everything > will be fine, except for answer two, below.) That's good to know; a 256KB card actually can be formatted with the 49g+. > 2. Argh! No directory/subdirectory structure!? Does that mean that I'm > limited to however many files I can keep track of in a root directory? > Presumably 512 entries? > ***Yes, I suspect that we will all bang heads up against the 512 entry > barrier. Just like the single sided 160KB floppies formatted under DOS 1.0's > file management system. Although there is a slight capacity variance between > a 160KB device and a 256MB storage device. Yes, a 160KB card has only 64 root directory entries, but also only 320 sectors, 6 of which are used for the boot record, FATs, and root directory. So there is the potential for 250 sectors being unusable due to a lack of directory entries under MS-DOS 1.00. But I have my doubts as to how often this would actually have been a problem. > However, just like Pandora, who > looked in the bottom of her box and found only one thing: hope; there is not > quite a promise from Hewlett Packard who says in one of the manuals that the > problem could be fixed in a future ROM image release but that they were not > committing to make a future change to the machine's ROM. Sure enough, right there on page 18-1 of the smaller PDF, and on page 26-7 of the larger. I notice that it doesn't say how many entries are available in the root, but for now, I'll assume 512. Unless perhaps it was fixed at the same time that the ability to format on the 49g+ was introduced? But you can store directory objects on the card, and it seems to indicate that you may be able to recall some objects from within the stored directory objects by specifying the path, short of recalling the entire directory object. Note that by storing a directory, each variable within the directory won't need its own cluster, so it does have that advantage, rather like the old *.ARC files, if I recall correctly, not compressed, but several files packed into one file. > Sorry, but no time to write any more, James. No problem, posting to a newsgroup is entirely voluntary. -- James ==== > That's good to know; a 256KB card actually can be formatted with the 49g+. Yes, but when I did format my 256M-card on the 49+, it was not readable on a PC or Mac. -- Michael -- -= Michael Hoppe , =------ ==== > Yes, a 160KB card has only 64 root directory entries, but also only 320 > sectors, 6 of which are used for the boot record, FATs, and root > directory. Oops, there are *2* FATs, so make that 7 used. > So there is the potential for 250 So make that 249... > sectors being unusable due > to a lack of directory entries under MS-DOS 1.00. But I have my doubts > as to how often this would actually have been a problem. ==== I wonder if the flickering softkey menus can be fixed by a firmware upgrade? I'm astounded at how many little things about the whole product (documentation, PC software, marketing, the calc itself - h/w and s/w) are, well, lacking in quality, not at all refined. It seems like it was shipped before completion... I hate to repeat what's been vehemently argued before, but I just wonder how HP engineers could let their product ship when the screen still flickers, and the batteries are so short lived (first rom) - ? Why weren't these details ironed out before it was packaged up and sent off to retail outlets? ==== > The 49G+ and 48Gii seem to have some similarities, but must be different in some > aspects. What are the primary differences, and what would make one choose one > over the other? > > http://www.hpcalc.org/images/graphcalccomp.pdf sums up graphing > calculator comparisons nicely. Differences that I found worth noting > are the following (in order of 48Gii followed by 49G+): > - processor: 48MHz vs. 75MHz (I haven't heard any benchmarks between > the calcs though, which would be more valuable) > - display size: 131x64 vs. 131x80 > - serial port: RS232 vs. USB > - expansion port: 49G+ only > - flash rom: 49G+ only > - memory: 512K vs. 512K+0.8M > Keep in mind that these are based on the assumption that the > previousely mentioned docs are accurate and I have yet to see the > calcs in person myself. Anyone know other hardware differences, or > software differences between them? > Ed Sutton I wonder if the 48gII will have the battery problem that 2.20 had... ==== > >> >>>The 49G+ and 48Gii seem to have some similarities, but must be different in some >>>aspects. What are the primary differences, and what would make one choose one >>>over the other? >> >>http://www.hpcalc.org/images/graphcalccomp.pdf sums up graphing >>calculator comparisons nicely. Differences that I found worth noting >>are the following (in order of 48Gii followed by 49G+): >>- processor: 48MHz vs. 75MHz (I haven't heard any benchmarks between >>the calcs though, which would be more valuable) >>- display size: 131x64 vs. 131x80 >>- serial port: RS232 vs. USB >>- expansion port: 49G+ only >>- flash rom: 49G+ only >>- memory: 512K vs. 512K+0.8M >>Keep in mind that these are based on the assumption that the >>previousely mentioned docs are accurate and I have yet to see the >>calcs in person myself. Anyone know other hardware differences, or >>software differences between them? >>Ed Sutton > > > I wonder if the 48gII will have the battery problem that 2.20 had... No big deal, just take it apart and solder in a new ROM chip if there happens to be a bug in the firmware. ;-) Seriously, I noticed the same thing. I'm hoping that the information that I've seen is incorrect, and that the ROM really can be updated. Surely they don't expect the first release to be entirely bug-free? But I don't see that the 48gII will have any worthwhile advantage over a 48GX or 49G, and may in fact be a downgrade from the calculators that I already own, so that'll be somebody else's concern. -- James ==== > >If you just want to see it, you could make a little program: > ><< DUP 'EQ' STO ERASE DRAX DRAW 0 WAIT DROP >> > there any good algorithms for educated guesses doing this? Whjat does AUTO do? Per. ==== The AUTO command attempts to automatically set the y scale for optimal viewing in your x-range. Aaron > > > >> >>If you just want to see it, you could make a little program: >> >><< DUP 'EQ' STO ERASE DRAX DRAW 0 WAIT DROP >> >> >> >> > >there any good algorithms for educated guesses doing this? Whjat does >AUTO do? > >Per. > > > ==== > Responses follow: > : > : I'm glad to hear that. Was the card preformatted, or did you format it > : in a card reader/writer, or did you format it with the 49g+? > > *** I tried the write/read cycle on the SD card right out of the box. > Panasonic must have shipped the units correctly programmed because > everything worked correctly with no intervention required by me. > : > : I take it the cluster size is 4KB? Store a small file and see how much > : less the filer reports for port 3. > ***It will take me until Monday or Tuesday to do this correctly, James > because I am going out of town to hear my daughter sing. Not a problem; I was just curious. Enjoy your daughter's singing. I hope that your daughter isn't too jealous that you have a new baby. -- James ==== > > : I take it the cluster size is 4KB? Store a small file and see how much > > : less the filer reports for port 3. > No, on third thought, make it port 3. Port 2 is flash, port 3 is SD; now I see where the 3 came from. -- James ==== > I cannot remember how to format an SD card. Try ON-D, then choose, provided your are a hero, 9. Michael -- -= Michael Hoppe , =------ ==== So, what are the main software changes between these two calcs? Changes between ROM 1.22 and 1.19.6? Santiago Beraza ==== Yep! > So, what are the main software changes between these two calcs? > Changes between ROM 1.22 and 1.19.6? > > > Santiago Beraza ==== > Yep! > So, what are the main software changes between these two calcs? > Changes between ROM 1.22 and 1.19.6? > > > Santiago Beraza That didn't make sense to me. Yep what? :-) -- ==== >> Yep! >> So, what are the main software changes between these two calcs? >> Changes between ROM 1.22 and 1.19.6? >> >> >> Santiago Beraza > That didn't make sense to me. Yep what? :-) The HP49G+ has a Yogic Equation Parser or YEP that allows you to calculate the equations required to compute the ideal Yoga positions for your body size and shape. This feature is not available in the HP49G. Perhaps this is a sign that HP is looking for new markets for its calculators. In response to TI convincing high school math teachers that a graphing calculator can help their students, HP is trying to convince the world's Yogis to have their disciples purchase brand new HP calculators, thus entering the market and taking it over before TI has a chance. Then they will have the total market control in the Yoga sector that TI has in the American education sector. -Joshua > -- > -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== >> Yep! >> So, what are the main software changes between these two calcs? >> Changes between ROM 1.22 and 1.19.6? >> >> >> Santiago Beraza > > > That didn't make sense to me. Yep what? :-) > > > -- > Santiago, don«t worry much about asking that question (I mean, software difference between HP 49g and HP 49G+) to this newsgroup. I also did it one month ago and the reply was to look into HP's web page. Of course, nothing was shown there, but at least the answer was much better, in comparison, than the nonsense, ethereal and nirvanical answer from that Joshua. Good luck! ==== >> Yep! >> So, what are the main software changes between these two calcs? >> Changes between ROM 1.22 and 1.19.6? Yes, the changes between 1.19-6 and 1.22 are manily minor bugfixes The main new feature is the SD functionality Naturally the Saturn CPU emulator itself is a huge achievement Some interna.9a operations like GC is native (I suspect that # binaries are, too) > That didn't make sense to me. Yep what? :-) > -Joshua > > -- > > > -- > -Joshua Belsky > jjbelsky@yahoo.com > http://belsky.net > ==== > My HP49g+ didn't have the User Guide with it so this will be > a great help. Go to: http://www.hp.com/calculators/graphing/49gplus/ and follow the links to a variety of downloadable PDFs. ==== > I'm not sure what to try next. Maybe you should format the card on the 49+. ==== not sure what to try next. > > Maybe you should format the card on the 49+. Oh, I didn't know I could do that. Could you tell me how or tell me where instructions can be found? Tom ==== er... if you don't have ROM 1.22 already installed, I don't think you can format. The instructions I just posted are for 1.22... > not sure what to try next. > >>Maybe you should format the card on the 49+. > > > > Oh, I didn't know I could do that. Could you tell me how or tell me > where instructions can be found? > > Tom ==== > er... if you don't have ROM 1.22 already installed, I don't think you > can format. The instructions I just posted are for 1.22... Yes that's the problem. I'm trying to upgrade to 1.22 from my current 1.20. The 49G+ seems to recognize the files on the card (when using the Files function), and let's me store files on it. However, when I try the upgrade procedure it gives an error message and locks up. I guess next I'll try to re-format the SD card with a neighbor's PC and see if that helps. ==== on+D then 9 > not sure what to try next. > >>Maybe you should format the card on the 49+. > > > > Oh, I didn't know I could do that. Could you tell me how or tell me > where instructions can be found? > > Tom ==== Dear Co-Sufferers! I have terrible problems downloading my engineering equation database (contained in many text files) to the hp49+ using the mandatory Xmodem protocol. The Gr, for instance, instead of being converted to r as on the hp49 is converted to Gr. The same is true for the other Greek letters. Not to talk about the << which now becomes << instead of the program delimiter. I tried to adjust the Xlat indicator to 255 in the I/O Functions Transfer window, but to now avail (since this is apparently only valid for Kermit but not for Xmodem). Is there a way out of this? Otherwise, the hpt49+ is worthless for me. Walt. ==== > The Gr, for instance, instead of being converted to r as on the hp49 is > converted to Gr. The same is true for the other Greek letters. Not to > talk about the << which now becomes << instead of the program delimiter. That would be very strange because XModem does not do any translation at all! What you are seeing has to be happening after the file gets to the HP49. What exactly are you doing? (Sorry, but I do not see a way to solve the bigger problem you mention (transferring text)). -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com ==== Found the error, and it was in a part I wouldn't have dreamed. It turns out QUOTREM is wrong: << DUP2 MOD ROT OVER - ROT / SWAP >> eg. for 1E13 3 it returns 6.666..7e12 2. That is *wrong* of course. Correct result(s) would be either 6.6666666666e12 20. or 6.6666666667e12 -10. I haven't corrected it yet. Not easy.. Werner ==== > Found the error, and it was in a part I wouldn't have dreamed. > It turns out QUOTREM is wrong: > << DUP2 MOD ROT OVER - ROT / SWAP >> > eg. for 1E13 3 it returns 6.666..7e12 2. IT DOES NOT! > That is *wrong* of course. > Correct result(s) would be either > 6.6666666666e12 20. > or > 6.6666666667e12 -10. > > I haven't corrected it yet. Not easy.. > > Werner ==== > It turns out QUOTREM is wrong: > << DUP2 MOD ROT OVER - ROT / SWAP >> > eg. for 1E13 3 it returns 6.666..7e12 2. > > IT DOES NOT! A typo, perhaps? Meanwhile, here's a great cartoon that illustrates teaching real-life fractions. Enjoy! http://holyjoe.net/images/fractions.png -Joe- ==== : > Found the error, and it was in a part I wouldn't have dreamed. > It turns out QUOTREM is wrong: > << DUP2 MOD ROT OVER - ROT / SWAP >> > eg. for 1E13 3 it returns 6.666..7e12 2. > > IT DOES NOT! 2E13 3 does it. 2E13 3 IDIV2 -> 6666666666666 2 Is that the answer needed? -- Tony Hutchins Wellington New Zealand #235 You build a successful life a day at a time. Lou Holtz == > > > Found the error, and it was in a part I wouldn't have dreamed. > It turns out QUOTREM is wrong: > << DUP2 MOD ROT OVER - ROT / SWAP >> > eg. for 1E13 3 it returns 6.666..7e12 2. > > IT DOES NOT! > > 2E13 3 does it. > > 2E13 3 IDIV2 -> 6666666666666 2 > > Is that the answer needed? ==== > > OK all the examples work without bisecting. > > I'm VEY impressed! I tried to do the same, but kept running into the > problem of roundoff error sometimes giving false results. Bisection > avoids that problem because it only uses integer linear combinations. > Have you let both the old and new programs run on random numbers until > they find different answers? I'm very much looking forward to seeing > your code. If it always works, I'll modify the PDQ Algorithm > accordingly and include you as co-inventor in the PDQ patent. > > Warning: If you calculate the backwards jump to the appropriate > intermediate convergent using the same method as my DEC2FRAC program > (on Goodies Disk #3), it will jump to the wrong answer in some > pathological cases when zero error is specified. I very much hope > that this is not the case! > > -Joe- Can you give such a pathological example? I simply calculate the *exact N* for which (with j=i+1) Pj - N*Pi --------- = z +/- 0.5 ulp Qj - N*Qi Then I take IP(N) and evaluate the lefthand side again. Works for all the examples you gave, but I'm not sure it will *always* work, sadly. Let's see.. If there is a combination of z,Pj,Qj,Pi,Qi, with z having 12 digits of which the last is odd (!!) and N integer so that the above equation is *exact*, then my calculated N is wrong. Well it turned out that I have found an example that produces a wrong result. Back to square one, for now.. Werner ==== -=[ Thu, 23.10.03 3:02 p.m. +1300 (NZDT) ]=- in message ID <10955892ROBOTLX@news.cis.dfn.de> : > -=[ Thu, 23.10.03 1:57 p.m. +1300 (NZDT) ]=- > > > in message ID <87233f9e.0310221604.27f3e501@posting.google.com> : > > Joe's PDQ scout will be very interesting - just imagine > if it can casually deliver fractions in size order ... > > That's what it does, although the user always has the > option of leaping over the intermediate convergents, > > Great! > > which is useful when there are a huge number of them (half > as many as each huge partial quotient). > > Always a new challenge - hehe I'll have to think about the > parenthetical statement above ... I get the idea - when we > suddenly hit a huge partial quotient, rising up like Mt Sinai, > we find many intermediate convergents before it. And yes they > can stretch back to the midpoint. Ahha I can almost prove this now. If we have a number Z and our first accurate convergent is p/q, so that abs(p/q -Z) is less than some small number called 'eps', say, and the previous convergent is p1/q1 then abs(p1/q1 - Z) > eps. If, for the moment (a.k.a. I cheat a bit) I consider that p/q actually equals Z then abs(p1/q1 - p/q) >eps, or abs(p1*q-q1*p)/(q*q1) >eps, or eps*q*q1 < 1, as abs(p*q1-q*p1)=1. Using Werner's notation, we want the k such that abs((p - k*p1)/(q - k*q1) - p/q) =eps. The actual K used will be the integer part of this. This simplifies down to k = (q/q1) * (1 / (1+ 1/(eps*q*q1))), and if eps*q*q1 < 1 then this k will be < (q/q1)/2. I found the mid point :) -- Tony Hutchins Wellington New Zealand #16 Beginnings and endings are truly artificial constructs. ==== > Please comment on the following: > 1) Keyboard problems! > sticky, dropped keystrokes, etc > 2) Paint chipping > 3) General observations > > If you include from where and when you purchased the calc, serial number, > etc, it might help us decide from where the best ones are coming ... Received Calc from SamsonCable yesterday afternoon. Came in blister pack with cd, cable, batteries and user manual. Serial Number: CN33402896 ROM 1.20(now 1.22 using Conn4x and cable) Keyboard problem - None so far, no missed key inputs. Paint Chipping- none so far, is it painted of die casted gold??? General ovservations - Didn't think I would like the gold color, but after seeing it, this is quite a nice looking calculator. The gold back ground make for easy ready of the commands and keys. The keyboard does feel a litte iffy to me. Does sound hollow. The calc is lighter, but a little top heavy. Will have to change how I hold the calc. My screen seems to be tilted slightly CW. Have seen the screen flask across the bottom as has most other users. The larger screen has good contrast. I was one who took Holy Joe's advice on the 49G and removed the clear from the bezel, therefore my 49G still has the better contrast. The 49g+ is using the same type lens cover as the early TI graphing calcs. Graphed a few functions. The speed makes it all worth it. Don't gain anything as far as graphing area. Dissappointed about that. Saw my 256M SanDisk SD card before and after formatting. Don't know what to do with the SD card yet. Restored TV49G text files using Conn4x and old 49G backup. Had to install TV49G library seperate. Have not been able to backup 49g+. Conn4x is giving a Can't open file ARCH.49hp 2 or something like that. SD reader is now a must. Any recomendations? New case is nice. A little large. Case has magnetic latch!!! Be carful with that. Put the 49g in it and the 49g+ in the 48 soft case. Good fit in soft case. Danny ==== > > SD reader is now a must. Any recomendations? Personally, I use my PocketPC as an SD reader. :) > > New case is nice. A little large. Case has magnetic latch!!! Be carful > with that. Put the 49g in it and the 49g+ in the 48 soft case. Good fit > in soft case. I stick with the nice new leather case for the 49G+ and keep the 48 in its original case. I rather like the new case. I also agree with you abou the paint's durability so far. If it is any sign, my Dell Axim PocketPC has metallic silver painted plastic, and there's only one chip on it after > a year of daily use... and I carry it in my pocket, not a soft case. The 49G+ seems likely to be equally durable, and is a very nice looking design. I do have one paint chip in the metal around the screen of my 48G, but that's due to a puppy getting a hold of it. Fortunately, it was in the soft case, and other than a few tooth marks, it's none the worse for wear - it's worked for a few years since that happened! ==== X > Graphed a few functions. The speed makes it all worth it. X > SD reader is now a must. Any recomendations? http://www.iogear.com/products/product.php?Item=GFR280&PHPSESSID=6c75d22d2cb f6dc053368ffa43df81b9 <3hzlb.78$b77.182@dfw-service2.ext.raytheon.com> ==== >> However, I think HP made a mistake in using USB instead of rs-232. >> IMHO, the speed gain does not make up for the capability loss. > > I completely disagree with you there. Capability loss? I haven't used a computer with serial for YEARS! > > Next you'll want a floppy drive. However, losing rs-232 is still a setback. It is a simple, clean and easy protocol to implement. Losing this also eliminates the ability to do many things that were possible before going to usb. An example is folks who use the calc for communicating with their goto telescopes. What about the folks who have older hardware that does not have usb (eg laptops)? I could provide many more examples. The main loss in my opinion is not related to how the calc connects to a computer but how it connects to the large number of *other* devices out there that have a use for hp communication capability and don't implement usb. The fact is that there are a lot of folks who do not always have the latest and greatest equipment. This could be for several reasons but primarily because of the expense; the fact that what they have *works*; and the fact that they do not choose to be the typical sheep that is sucked into believing that they have to upgrade or be left behind. Of course this opinion comes from an older geezer. I am rather set in my ways and I am one of those who refuse to be a sheep without fighting it first. I have upgraded my desktop only twice in seven years. My laptop only once in three. And still, neither one is considered high end by any means. They work, though. I own a 48GX and a 49G. Based on what I read about the 49G+, I will not buy one for quite a while since it seems that the speedup is not significant across all functionality, I can't use it for my telescope, and it can't do any more than my 49G other than utilize a SD card. Maybe I will get one when they are more polished and I have $150 to blow. Note: this is not an attempt to start a war nor am I a troll. Best, -Al Arduengo -- ~/.signature ==== X > However, losing rs-232 is still a setback. Maybe you should consider the 48gII with 115,200 baud RS-232C X > what I read about the 49G+, I will not buy one for quite a while since > it seems that the speedup is not significant across all functionality, BUT it is > I can't use it for my telescope, and it can't do any more than my 49G > other than utilize a SD card. Maybe I will get one when they are more > polished and I have $150 to blow. <> > Note: this is not an attempt to start a war nor am I a troll. You, You troll! My flamethrower is ON! (He must be Jack or Helen using poor Al's identity) > Best, Worst, > -Al Arduengo +VP Nousiainen > ~/.signature (-; <--there it is! ==== >>However, I think HP made a mistake in using USB instead of rs-232. >>IMHO, the speed gain does not make up for the capability loss. > > > I completely disagree with you there. Capability loss? I haven't used a computer with serial for YEARS! Yes, a huge capability loss. Although you haven't used a computer with serial for years, there are plenty of RS-232 capable devices out there, which can be used with the 48 series and usually with the 49G. USB seems to use a client-server model. The few USB devices that I have each needs it very own driver on the host device, my PC. What's worse, the drivers are usually for MS-Windows only, plus sometimes a driver for an Apple OS as a bonus; no other operating systems need be considered. Will I be able to print via USB with my 49g+? Or to communicate with another 49g+ via USB? Or to connect it via USB with anything that isn't running an MS-Windows or Apple OS with the special driver installed? Apparently not, it's device (client) only as far as I can tell. To communicate with anything else via USB, it seems that I'll have to use a computer as a go-between. It looks to me as if to establish communication directly with anything else, I'd have to use IrDA, and since I don't have any IrDA devices, I'd have to purchase an IrDA/RS-232 converter as a go-between. I'm hoping that the 49g+'s IrDA is at least capable of a Serial-IR mode capable of communicating with the 48 series for example. RS-232 seems to use a peer-to-peer model. I can establish two-way communications between any 48 series or 49G and any other RS-232 capable device. Well, to a printer, the communication is pretty much one-way, but even in that case, the printer can successfully send XON/XOFF signals to the 48 series. It seems to me that RS-232 is a lot closer to being universal than the Universal Serial Bus is. To be sure, I'll appreciate the increased speed with USB, but RS-232 could be speeded up to several times faster than the 48 series' or 49G's implementation of it, with no loss of compatibility or capability. If they'd managed to add USB and still keep an RS-232 port I'd be very pleased, particularly as many of the newer PCs, as purchased, seem to lack serial ports. But given the choice between RS-232 and USB, I'd choose RS-232 every time. > Next you'll want a floppy drive. You lost me there; why would I want a floppy drive with it? Isn't an SD card enough? -- James ==== X > To be sure, I'll appreciate the increased speed with USB, but RS-232 > could be speeded up to several times faster than the 48 series' or 49G's > implementation of it, with no loss of compatibility or capability. If > they'd managed to add USB and still keep an RS-232 port I'd be very > pleased, particularly as many of the newer PCs, as purchased, seem to > lack serial ports. But given the choice between RS-232 and USB, I'd > choose RS-232 every time. Then you should buy the hp 48gII instead. > > Next you'll want a floppy drive. > > You lost me there; why would I want a floppy drive with it? Isn't an SD > card enough? Apparently a joke (-; A cassette device is better... ==== > X > >>To be sure, I'll appreciate the increased speed with USB, but RS-232 >>could be speeded up to several times faster than the 48 series' or 49G's >>implementation of it, with no loss of compatibility or capability. If >>they'd managed to add USB and still keep an RS-232 port I'd be very >>pleased, particularly as many of the newer PCs, as purchased, seem to >>lack serial ports. But given the choice between RS-232 and USB, I'd >>choose RS-232 every time. > > > Then you should buy the hp 48gII instead. What speed is available for the 48gII's RS-232 port? Does the 48gII have any worthwhile advantage over the 48GX? >> Next you'll want a floppy drive. >> >>You lost me there; why would I want a floppy drive with it? Isn't an SD >>card enough? > > > Apparently a joke (-; > A cassette device is better... I have one for my Sharp EL-5520. I was quite impressed with it. Interesting to listen to as well as useful for mass storage. I wonder whether I could use it for the HPs. Maybe if I use an RS-232 connection from an HP to the Sharp, and through the printer/cassete interface to the cassette drive.... ;-) -- James ==== X> > Then you should buy the hp 48gII instead. > > What speed is available for the 48gII's RS-232 port? Does the 48gII have > any worthwhile advantage over the 48GX? I would call it the hp 49g- There is no flash, but the 48MHz speed still makes it twice as fast as an older 48/49 The serial is 115,200 baud and the cable is included ==== Veli-Pekka Nousiainen replied: > X> > Then you should buy the hp 48gII instead. > >>What speed is available for the 48gII's RS-232 port? Does the 48gII have >>any worthwhile advantage over the 48GX? > > I would call it the hp 49g- > There is no flash, but the 48MHz speed still makes it twice as fast as > an older 48/49 > The serial is 115,200 baud and the cable is included Maybe I'm being too cautious, but has anyone seen a 48GII yet? If not, it seems a bit early to be making claims about it. I'd expect that everything being equal, it should be 4 * 48/75 = 2.56 x the 48 speed. But who knows till we see the beast, they may have used a processor with less cache, or made other compromises to cut costs. Rich > > ==== > > > Veli-Pekka Nousiainen replied: > X> > Then you should buy the hp 48gII instead. > >>What speed is available for the 48gII's RS-232 port? Does the 48gII have >>any worthwhile advantage over the 48GX? > > I would call it the hp 49g- > There is no flash, but the 48MHz speed still makes it twice as fast as > an older 48/49 > The serial is 115,200 baud and the cable is included > > Maybe I'm being too cautious, but has anyone seen a 48GII yet? In my left hand when writing this sentence. > If not, it seems a bit early to be making claims about it. I'd expect Claims? This time it is not a rumour - I really have it: CN335.... > that everything being equal, it should be 4 * 48/75 = 2.56 x the 48 > speed. But who knows till we see the beast, they may have used a > processor with less cache, or made other compromises to cut costs. Excatly the same CPU (but at 48MHz) no compromises (other than RAM, Flash, SD) The RS-232C is 115,200 bauds > Rich > > > > >>>X> > Then you should buy the hp 48gII instead. >>> >>> >>>>What speed is available for the 48gII's RS-232 port? Does the 48gII have >>>>any worthwhile advantage over the 48GX? >>> >>>I would call it the hp 49g- >>>There is no flash, but the 48MHz speed still makes it twice as fast as >>>an older 48/49 >>>The serial is 115,200 baud and the cable is included >> >>Maybe I'm being too cautious, but has anyone seen a 48GII yet? > > In my left hand when writing this sentence. Really? You can type with one hand? :^/ >>If not, it seems a bit early to be making claims about it. I'd expect > > Claims? This time it is not a rumour - I really have it: CN335.... OK, cool. After the 49G+ made an appearance I assumed that the 48GII was not just a rumor, but unlike the 49G+, I've not read of anyone who's seen one or anyone who was selling em up till now. And it's still unclear when they will hit the market. >>that everything being equal, it should be 4 * 48/75 = 2.56 x the 48 >>speed. But who knows till we see the beast, they may have used a >>processor with less cache, or made other compromises to cut costs. > > Excatly the same CPU (but at 48MHz) > no compromises (other than RAM, Flash, SD) > The RS-232C is 115,200 bauds Some have complained about the lack of a serial port, they should find the 48GII more to their liking. Wonder why no flash ROM? ==== Personally, I have to agree. I would have much preferred an RS232 port. ==== I completely agree with you regarding HP's mistake in this area. There are many different kinds of data terminal and communications equipment that use rs-232 or rs 485 interfacing. Many products for which calculator based information communicate via wire rs-232 connectivity are abundant in industry. We'll have to adapt the usb to our needs by some other method if there is any hope for the hp49g+ with its incompatibility with this mode. -Dale- > >> However, I think HP made a mistake in using USB instead of rs-232. >> IMHO, the speed gain does not make up for the capability loss. > >I completely disagree with you there. Capability loss? I haven't used a computer with serial for YEARS! > >Next you'll want a floppy drive. ==== Has anyone bought one of these beasties? If so, could you report on it? I can't figure out for sure what the memory and storage configuration is other than 128K ram. Does it have flash storage? SD slot? Best, -Al Arduengo -- ~/.signature ==== > Has anyone bought one of these beasties? If so, could you report on it? > I can't figure out for sure what the memory and storage configuration is > other than 128K ram. Does it have flash storage? SD slot? I would call it 49g- No SD, No Flash, 128KB RAM (80KB for user?) 115,200 serial connection (not USB) - cable included I you need a controller - you may consider this calc! 131*64 display, 48MHz ARM9 (only about twice as fast as the old 49G) ROM 1.20, but no battery problem so far the kb 1st row was stiff and missing keys and is now suddenly ok ???? ==== > Heya! > > Just got my 49G+ today and now I am trying to install the newest ROM 1.22 > on > it. I got the ROM with a CD from the salesperson, and I tried installing > it, > following the instructions HP provides ( > > http://h20015.www2.hp.com/en/softwareDownloadIndex.jhtml?reg=&cc=ch&softitem= ca-14639-2&prodId=hp49ggraph351775&lc=en&sw_lang=en&pagetype=software ) > . I can connect to the calculator perfectly fine, but I cannot access the > ROM menu as said at point 3 in the how to. It is unaccessible, > regardless what I tried. Everything else works fine. What am I doing > wrong? > Hmmm. > Meybe you need a more recent version of the conn4x? > Is you version 1689 or 1588? > Take a look at www.hpcalc.org > > I got the exact problem. I called HP support and here is what you have > to do after step 2. So, > > Step 2.5 Make sure you select HPx9g+ from the Connect using drop > down list. When you select that. You will see that the ROM menu will > be enable. > > Follow the rest of the instructions and you are on the way. > > > Rod I'm having the same problem. The only options that I see under the Connect using pulldown window are Auto, COM1, COM2. Am I missing something else? Mike ==== X > I'm having the same problem. The only options that I see under the > Connect using pulldown window are Auto, COM1, COM2. Am I missing > something else? Did you install the SUB driver for the 49g+ first? My PC maked a sound on connect/disconnect (or OFF/ON) Cancel-Lock: sha1:AD+r1EUMHHL0syJSroixZHV7fq8= ==== > X >> I'm having the same problem. The only options that I see under the >> Connect using pulldown window are Auto, COM1, COM2. Am I missing >> something else? > Did you install the SUB driver for the 49g+ first? > My PC maked a sound on connect/disconnect (or OFF/ON) > > would make it worth it but the ram is a little too limited for how I use it. Best, -Al Arduengo -- ==== Hmm. wrong thread. Sorry about that! > >> X >>> I'm having the same problem. The only options that I see under the >>> Connect using pulldown window are Auto, COM1, COM2. Am I missing >>> something else? >> Did you install the SUB driver for the 49g+ first? >> My PC maked a sound on connect/disconnect (or OFF/ON) >> >> > would make it worth it but the ram is a little too limited for how I use > it. > > Best, > -Al Arduengo > -- > ~/.signature -- ~/.signature ==== > Hmm. wrong thread. Sorry about that! Trolling again? (-; > > >> X >>> I'm having the same problem. The only options that I see under the >>> Connect using pulldown window are Auto, COM1, COM2. Am I missing >>> something else? >> Did you install the SUB driver for the 49g+ first? SUB=USB, my PC has this kb problem.... ==== > Hmm. wrong thread. Sorry about that! > Trolling again? > (-; > > > >> X >>> I'm having the same problem. The only options that I see under the >>> Connect using pulldown window are Auto, COM1, COM2. Am I missing >>> something else? >> Did you install the SUB driver for the 49g+ first? > SUB=USB, my PC has this kb problem.... had to put the USB drivers onto a floppy and force the OS to use them. Once I did that, everything worked fine. To summarize in US/Arizona slang, You Da Man! Sincerely, Mike ==== >>If you're serious about needing 3D graphing then the 39G/40G is not >>really the machine for you. It doesn't support it natively and this >>program is VERY slow (about 1/2 an hour to draw a plot) because it is >>written in HPBasic. I'd suggest investing in a 40 or 49 if you really >>need this. Or in a good package for the PC. >> > > > I can't find 3d graphing functionality on the 40g :S, could you tell me how > to make 3d graphs on the 40g? > There is no native support for 3d graphing on the 39G or the 40G - that's what I said above. If you want to do 3d graphs you have to download a program or an aplet to it. There are two that I know of. One is written in HP Basic and is *very* slow. The other is (I think) faster but is in French and I don't speak it so I never really tried it out very much. Go to http://www.hphomeview.com/functions_&_calculus.htm and scroll down to Function 3D. ==== What command lines params should I be using with HPTools when compiling for 38g Aplets? I can't find any documentation reagarding this. Also is there a windows IDE for such programming? -- Wing Wong. Webpage: http://wing.ucc.asn.au ==== Agreed. God is active in the world today, and listens, but we can't just free our mind like in Matrix and go jumping off buildings! > Not the human thoughts, but God listens to prayers > and He does the deeds, not man's thoughts > There is a huge New Age difference in these things! > > > >> >> >>>my belief that thoughts do nothing. >> >>If prayers are thoughts, and people pray for something to happen, >>then thoughts can do something, if you believe in prayers... >> >>Jordi. > > > ==== Great question, does anyone else with serial number >=334xxxxx have keyboard problems. To iterate I have 31109xxx and there is definitely a keyboard problem. I do not want to spend this amount of money on a calc that will randomly recognise key presses - even though I would absolutely not give it up. It's just too fast for that. dave > > I wonder how widespread this problem really is? I have had my 49G+ for > three > days and have absolutely no problem with missed entries. The keys press a > little harder than I am used to, but when they click, they register. My > > Fantastic, John! > Maybe you have a revised model? > CN331...and CN334...are from a different week, > so there is hope that the kb issue was just the first batch > (and even not all of them) > Any others with ROM 1.22 and better kb? > > ==== > > I wonder how widespread this problem really is? I have had my 49G+ for > three > days and have absolutely no problem with missed entries. The keys press a > little harder than I am used to, but when they click, they register. My > > Fantastic, John! > Maybe you have a revised model? > CN331...and CN334...are from a different week, > so there is hope that the kb issue was just the first batch > (and even not all of them) > Any others with ROM 1.22 and better kb? I have CN33402896 with no missed entries so far. Came with rom 1.20 from Samson Cables. danny ==== Brian Kaul schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I should add mine is a CN331 model that came with ROM 1.20. Same here. Upgraded to 1.22, works fine. No Earthquake, no key problems. Daniel ==== > Fantastic, John! > Maybe you have a revised model? > CN331...and CN334...are from a different week, > so there is hope that the kb issue was just the first batch > (and even not all of them) > Any others with ROM 1.22 and better kb? minor) kb probs, as I mentioned in another post. I wonder if they keys just need running in?? Here's hoping. ==== > I too like the 49+, but disagree that the keyboard issue is minor. > If it were just a matter of using greater force to get the response, ok. But > the fact that the key clicks down, yet no action is taken is a serious error > for a calculator. > Whilst HP should be given credit for bothering to upgrade the HP49 to this > faster model, they have added no real improvements as far as the algorithms > go - for example an improved plot or CAS. The least they could do is make > sure the input/output interface works ok. At least they got the output right > :-) I'm a little disappointed about the keys too. My early 49g's keys are hard to press, but they always register. I've had a 49g+ for all of 5 hours and I've already noted: The 'X', 'y^x', and some other keys can click, and then once I'm holding it down a minute movement will register keypresses - without releasing it past the point where it clicks on the way down. I can press the keys harder like I did on the 49g, but my finger tips seem to get a little sore after tapping lots of keys hard. Some of the keys also make different clicking sounds, and the ON key registers when released instead of when it's pressed, which is funny... Anyway, The rest of the machine is SWEET AS! And light, oh how light, and screen.... A nice point is that the speaker key click is softer than on the g, so I leave this turned on. Audible feedback is fine for me, if not tactile. ==== Since you can hold ON and press various keys (C, D, F, A+F, etc) to do different things (testing, clearing memory, soft resets, etc), it makes sense that it would not perform an action until the key was released. That's just software... > ... and the ON key registers when > released instead of when it's pressed, which is funny... ==== Yes, Distibute will clearly do 1). Its much more interesting to know if anyone knows how to do 2). I have often thought that this would be a really useful feature, but is just as clearly lacking in the CAS. Maybe there is a valid mathematical reason why?! dave > > When I EXPAND the expression (A+B+C)^3, I obtain: > > C^3+3.C^2.B+3.C.B^2+B^3+(3.C^2+6.C.B+3.B^2).A+(3.C+3.B).A^2+A^3 > > Do you know how to: > > 1) expand the remaining parenthesis? > > 2) factorize for any given monom, e.g. A.B.C? > > > Yves > > PS: I am running rom 1.19-6 on the HP49G. ==== > > When I EXPAND the expression (A+B+C)^3, I obtain: > > C^3+3.C^2.B+3.C.B^2+B^3+(3.C^2+6.C.B+3.B^2).A+(3.C+3.B).A^2+A^3 > > Do you know how to: > > 1) expand the remaining parenthesis? FDISTRIB > 2) factorize for any given monom, e.g. A.B.C? > > > Yves > > PS: I am running rom 1.19-6 on the HP49G. ==== After playing around with Wolfgang's unitman, I found it extremely useful as it allows to create all the units I really need (stones, miles per gallon) and get rid of those I don't even know what they are ( I don't have and don't intend to have in the foreseeable future any interest in viscosity). I could also reorganise everything. Great utility Wolfgang! Then I decided to have a little test of unitman to see how it would react if did something wrong: I redefined a built in unit. I decided to redefine rpm as an angular speed and not a frequency anymore as it is how I use it at work. And so I did and it worked. Wolfgang told me it shouldn't and effectively, any other built-in unit I tried to redefined didn't stick. But rpm is redefinable. Now When I do <<1_rpm UBASE>> I get .10471975512_r/s Wolfgang??) has an explanation for this? I would be really happy to read it. Arnaud ==== I went into a HP store, and asked whether they have the hp49g+. They said that there are absolutely no hp calcs of any kind in Hungary, hp simply doesn't ship them here. I asked Perhaps from internet?. The answer was no again, because -they said- I could only order from the hp international site, but the international site won't accept individual orders, they are in contact with the official hungarian reseller only. The closest place I could get a hp calc is Austria, they said. This is sad, I think. Now what are my chances, if I would like to get a hp49g+, despite all of this? P.8eter Juh.87sz ==== You could try to work out a deal with Eric at http://commerce.hpcalc.org/ He's taking international orders (If you discuss shipping methods FIRST). Or here... http://www.educalc.net/ Or here... http://www.samsoncables.com/catalog/index.cfm Have fun! :-D > I went into a HP store, and asked whether they have the hp49g+. > They said that there are absolutely no hp calcs of any kind in Hungary, hp > simply doesn't ship them here. I asked Perhaps from internet?. The answer was > no again, because -they said- I could only order from the hp international > site, but the international site won't accept individual orders, they are in > contact with the official hungarian reseller only. The closest place I could > get a hp calc is Austria, they said. > > This is sad, I think. > > Now what are my chances, if I would like to get a hp49g+, despite all of this? > > P.8eter Juh.87sz > ==== I'm trying to transfer some UserRPL programs to my HP49G+. I have had no success with the kermit protocol, although I am able to use the Connectivity Kit to transfer programs via XModem. Is this The programs are received as strings on the HP49G+. Is there some program or method that I can use to turn the strings into programs? Justin ==== > I'm trying to transfer some UserRPL programs to my HP49G+. I have had > no success with the kermit protocol, although I am able to use the > Connectivity Kit to transfer programs via XModem. Is this > > The programs are received as strings on the HP49G+. Is there some > program or method that I can use to turn the strings into programs? Two possibilities: A) STR-> (if it is just a program store as a string) B) FIXOBJ/OBJFIX (if it starts with HPHP49 the latter can be found on the www.hpcalc.org, use search ==== I think this may be a bug in the display driver for the 49G+ with its larger screen. Supposedly, one should be able to regain use of the top rows of pixels on the screen by going to Mode -> Disp (F4) and setting Header to 0. When I do this, the test at the top of the screen (RAD XYZ HEX R+ 'X' and {HOME}) does indeed disappear, but the horizontal line beneath it remains, and I do not have any more usable area on the screen. I tested the screen with the LCD test, and the screen is fine. Serial# CN33400994, ROM 1.22, no Flash card or anything else installed. (Has anyone gotten this result with a lower ROM revision?) Inncidentially, these are the top 16 rows of pixels. Note 64 + 16 = 80. I think this is a bug in the ROM, noting that the 49G has a 131x64 acreen and the 49G+ has a 131x80 screen. The User's Guide shows, on the first page, a graph that is drawn to the full screen. I have been unable to do this on my calculator. Jose Soltren ==== I think this is a shortcoming in the ROM. My guess is there was not enough time to fix it, and it may be corrected later. Most likely the image in the users guide was just a GROB done for marketing purposes. Al ==== >> >Have you ever tried to change the sign to negative on a number >when the display has an 'algebraic' long enough to cause a scroll? > I'm not following you... Pete M. Wilson Gamewood, Inc. wilsonpm@gamewood.net ==== In the documentation (MS Word file) for the program bode 2.31 by ====