HP-319 === Subject: Re: New HP calculator?? ] >> Hello ] >> ] >> I think there is a misunderstanding. ] >> ] >> It's 190Mhz instead of 90Mhz. ] Not to get our hopes up too high but isn't that around what a Strong Arm ] would do? The Strong Arm is fairly efficient, too. No,...no...don't get me started again on the StrongArm! Ages ago I suggested that this would be a good direction to go in and the silence was deafening! I have now convinced myself that it will not happen and we Acorn users will be the only beneficiaries of this great British invention. ARM = Acorn Risc Machine The future ignored because it wasn't invented 'You-Know-Where' Dick -- === Subject: Re: New HP calculator?? ...and just where would that be Dick? C'mon don't hold us in suspense! >] Not to get our hopes up too high but isn't that around what a Strong Arm >] would do? The Strong Arm is fairly efficient, too. No,...no...don't get me started again on the StrongArm! Ages ago I suggested >that this would be a good direction to go in and the silence was deafening! >I have now convinced myself that it will not happen and we Acorn users will >be the only beneficiaries of this great British invention. ARM = Acorn Risc Machine The future ignored because it wasn't invented 'You-Know-Where' === Subject: Re: New HP calculator?? john notes: How about a SCSI interface so I can connect it to my HP scanner? Why not a built-in HP atomic clock (they have gotten the size of the core component down to the size of a walnut, last time I heard) -----::o the core components can be reduced to whatever size you want, but the bottle neck for sticking it in a calculator ( of the hand held variety ) is still the magnetic shielding...!!! that's why they're still being wheeled around in laundry baskets... === Subject: Re: New HP calculator?? Magnetic shielding??? I didn't realize that HP used a polarized shielding in the calculator. I always thought it was best to use shielding to isolate the internal circuitry from outside noise. Using magnets as shielding would cause a lot of problems. Sounds like HP needs to rethink its EMI protection scheme. > john notes: > How about a SCSI interface so I can connect it to my HP scanner? > Why not a built-in HP atomic clock (they have gotten the size of the core > component down to the size of a walnut, last time I heard) > -----::o > the core components can be reduced to whatever size you want, but the bottle > neck for sticking it in a calculator ( of the hand held variety ) is still the > magnetic shielding...!!! > that's why they're still being wheeled around in laundry baskets... > > Join The BabyNous Cult : The Friendly Neighborhood Cult === Subject: Re: New HP calculator?? What...!!! i meant the other way around...!!! ----- Confusion reigns... Magnetic shielding??? I didn't realize that HP used a polarized shielding in the calculator. I always thought it was best to use shielding to isolate the internal circuitry from outside noise. Using magnets as shielding would cause a lot of problems. Sounds like HP needs to rethink its EMI protection scheme. > john notes: > How about a SCSI interface so I can connect it to my HP scanner? > Why not a built-in HP atomic clock (they have gotten the size of the core > component down to the size of a walnut, last time I heard) > -----::o > the core components can be reduced to whatever size you want, but the bottle > neck for sticking it in a calculator ( of the hand held variety ) is still the > magnetic shielding...!!! > that's why they're still being wheeled around in laundry baskets... === Subject: Re: New HP calculator?? I am NOT writing a gigabyte long program in RPL! (or whatever it's called). That could take years and cost millions of lives! Brian -:: o the programs themselves would still be calculator sized... it's the data that they generate, in the millions of colours, that's going to require the new ( Scinence News Oct '98 ) Wang computers; 16 TeraHertz Helium/Zinc ceramic memory core... === Subject: Odd appearance of EXTERNAL's i just noticed today that when i interrupt my gx with 2 128 cards installed, and NOT running any machine coded programs...there have been appearing on the stack EXTERNAL's...???...along with the other normal objects... i did a ON/E check, and the box insists that it's feeling ok, and the programs are running fine...??? what is what...??? === Subject: Re: Odd appearance of EXTERNAL's > i just noticed today that when i interrupt my gx with 2 128 cards installed, > and NOT running any machine coded programs...there have been appearing on the > stack EXTERNAL's...???...along with the other normal objects... i did a ON/E check, and the box insists that it's feeling ok, and the programs > are running fine...??? what is what...??? something like PCT (PCTools 5.7) maybe ? PCT assigns the ON key, with double press it starts. Maybe a third press interrupts PCT start and dumps some trash. Jens http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: Odd appearance of EXTERNAL's something like PCT (PCTools 5.7) maybe ? PCT assigns the ON key, with double press it starts. Maybe a third press interrupts PCT start and dumps some trash. Jens ----::o nope...i don't have any 'third' party 'extensions' in memory... it's been doing it fairly regularly too... ( EXTERNALS mysteriously appearing on the stack, when interrupted... ) === Subject: Re: Odd appearance of EXTERNAL's > nope...i don't have any 'third' party 'extensions' in memory... it's been doing it fairly regularly too... > ( EXTERNALS mysteriously appearing on the stack, when interrupted... ) No programs at all ? One way: assignment to ON-Key Try RCLKEYS, and look for the ON-Key. That would be 91.x second way: a library config do: 0 PVARS 1 PVARS 2 PVARS ... check every loaded library, use HACKv92 and JAZZv66 nnn RCFG DIS If any config differs from standard :: xnnn TOSRRP ; then maybe here is the problem. Tell us your attached libs. cu jens http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: Odd appearance of EXTERNAL's the EXTERNALS were appearing when in would interupt this program i was working on... i do have the Chemistry library... but i think i might have semi-solved it... i opened up that program... ( i had made a copy of it, then modified it was i was developing it...as a precaution, because very often, i'll make changes which will ruin it, then i won't remember how it used to be written...! ) ...so anyway...i opened the old copy up, and there were some EXTERNALS sitting in the code where there shouldn't have been...!!! (?)...it must have become corrupted somehow...??? this has never happened before... and since i deleted it, the problem seems to have gone away...??? hmmmmm...??? ( actually there are slightly more variables to the problem...but since it's cured itself, i'm going to ignore it...until it reoccurs...! ) === Subject: Re: UserRPL under Windows? > Has anyone written a UserRPL interpreter that runs under Windows 95? I know > that you can run UserRPL programs under the emulator on Windows but I was > thinking about an interpreter that runs directly under Windows and doesn't > require the emulator. Also, what about SysRPL? > > Yes. No. See http://www.qbc.clic.net/Elan/ === Subject: Re: parlez vous francais? I can only speak english, so I prefer to have all the messages in english. However, this newsgroup is visited by many people who either cannot speak english comfortably or may in fact have no idea at all about english. True, it may be difficult for them here but so what. If they want to search through 95% of the message they can't understand to find the small number they can good luck to them. The argument that some have posted about more people being able to help if the message in english, has some merit. However, I would dismiss it with the same rationale as the above. If the poster accepts the fact that not as many people can respond, then so be it. Let everybody use whatever language they feel like, and don't try to enforce your will on everybody else. === Subject: Re: parlez vous francais? On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:45:30 -0400, Enrique Mu.96oz Torres : : >in the last time there are many many french postings here. : >Unfortunately I can't speak french... :-( : >Do you speak english? : >Great!!!! :-) : > : Speak the language that you want. Imposing some language over another is : imperialistic and arbitrary. Hable castellano. Speak english. Parlez : fran.8dais. Speak whatever you want, but contribute to the newsgroup! If you contribute to the newsgroup in a language only few understand, not all the readers will benefit. (Or someone who might answer your question won't understand your problem.) I think a basic grasp of english can be assumed if someone reads this group. Imagine if Mika H. would post in Finnish ! (No offense meant, but I think his programs wouldn't be as commonly used if their docs were in Finnish.) Pete Commercial email sent to this address will be proofread === Subject: Re: parlez vous francais? please consider the following: if someone posts a message in french, spanish, german, english or whatever s/he addresses people understanding that particular language. As I remember this thread started as an reaction to a french posting where someone asked for locations to buy an HP48 (or was it a ramcard?) in the *paris* region. There is no sense in stating that if he had posted in english more people could have helped him (and tell him he can buy the requested in germany). I think if you can't understand a message just ignore it, period. Just my 0.2 Thomas. === Subject: Re: parlez vous francais? please consider the following: if someone posts >a message in french, spanish, german, english or whatever >s/he addresses people understanding that particular >language. As I remember this thread started as an reaction to >a french posting where someone asked for locations to buy >an HP48 (or was it a ramcard?) in the *paris* region. There >is no sense in stating that if he had posted in english more people >could have helped him (and tell him he can buy the requested >in germany). I think if you can't understand a message just >ignore it, period. Maybe it would be good idea to give proper subject. I mean when somebody want to write something in other language then english, he/she will start it (subject) from FR: (if in french), DE: (german), ES: (spanish), etc... What do You think? It will be possible to make killfile if someone want one. -- .__o Maciek G.97rniak * Mago '. _-*_<, http://www.meil.pw.edu.pl/~st1122/ ____(*)*'(*)___mailto:st1122@orange.meil.pw.edu.pl === Subject: Re: parlez vous francais? >Maybe it would be good idea to give proper subject. I mean when somebody >want to write something in other language then english, he/she will start >it (subject) from FR: (if in french), DE: (german), ES: (spanish), etc... >What do You think? >It will be possible to make killfile if someone want one. While this isn't a bad idea as far as it goes, I think it begs the question: why should someone have to do ANYTHING special when posting in a language other than English? People who speak another language will certainly be able to identify it without a prefix. :) Frankly, if an English speaker is bothered enough by seeing other languages on the group to set up a killfile, they need to get a grip. Posters should not be stigmatized for posting in any language they choose, and they obviously will understand the limitations and benefits of posting in a non-English language. But I will address the original reason this thread started, IIRC - someone was merely trying to suggest that posting in English would make more help available. While this may be true, if someone isn't comfortable enough to post in English, they probably won't understand a reply in English. If some well-meaning sould takes it upon his or herself to translate the messages they feel could be best handled by the group at large, and translate replies back to the original tongue, that would be the only real solution. But I don't see this as a problem that requires any sort of action. Of course, se cxiu povus paroli Esperanton, none of this would be an issue. :) Michael === Subject: Re: parlez vous francais? : please consider the following: if someone posts : a message in french, spanish, german, english or whatever : s/he addresses people understanding that particular : language. As I remember this thread started as an reaction to : a french posting where someone asked for locations to buy : an HP48 (or was it a ramcard?) in the *paris* region. There : is no sense in stating that if he had posted in english more people : could have helped him (and tell him he can buy the requested : in germany). I think if you can't understand a message just : ignore it, period. This works okay as long as there are not very many such posts. But if there are very many non-english posts then it becomes a bit of a pain to wade through them. And if the non-english traffic becomes very great it will annoy more than it will help! Simply put, EVERYBODY likes a low-noise newsgroup. And posts in a language a person doesn't understand is simply noise. And the more such posts the more noise. And to encourge such posts is to encourge MORE NOISE!!! PLEASE NO!!! Let's try and keep the noise on comp.sys.hp48 to a minimum! While there have been some non-english posts (mostly in the last year or two), comp.sys.hp48 has always been basicly an english language newsgroup. And most everybody that reads the group understands english. As such, anything different should NOT be encourged! There is plenty of traffic and noise even with just the english posts. Anything more will just detract from the group. It would be FAR BETTER to create another newsgroup for non-english posts than to clutter up comp.sys.hp48 with such! As things are now, non-english posts should ONLY be made by someone who does NOT write english, and who cannot find a better method of contact (another group, email, or such). Replies should be made through email or such if possible. And anybody who does not like this should see about starting a new newsgroup! (While these are my own feelings, I think they agree with most of the rest of the people here.) dan === Subject: hp48 programming Does somebody knows info or a web site about instructions in assembly language to program the beepper ? I want to make more than the instruction 'BEEP'. J.8er.99me === Subject: Re: hp48 programming > Does somebody knows info or a web site about instructions in assembly > language to program the beepper ? I want to make more than the instruction > 'BEEP'. HP has two levels of sound output: LCHEX 800 OUT=C does a click and: C=0 X OUT=C turns the beeper off. You also have the routine BEEP at #017A6, which uses: D0, D1, A, B, C, D, R0, R1, R2, R3 Put frequency in Da Length in milliseconds in Ca This function will do beeps or not accordingly to flag -56. -Gilb- (remove the z from my address to email me) 00 E2 22 76 58 1F 72 BA EA 94 78 F3 A2 63 E0 94 === Subject: Re: hp48 programming You could try http://www.hpcalc.org Raymond Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germany.net === Subject: River Raid anyone? does anyone have, have tried to program or with to help to program a -- There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want Bill Watterson Bruno Barberi Gnecco ICQ #1383173 - PGP 5.0i user [I'm running Linux] -=-=- Electric Engineering at Politechnic School, USP Check my homepage at http://graphx.home.ml.org * C, 3D graphics, and more === Subject: Re: River Raid anyone? That would be really cool. I had River Raid for the C64, and loved it. I was pretty good at it to even if I do say so myself. But that was when I was about 10-12 I guess! Graham Searle esrsm@eng.warwick.ac.uk === Subject: Re: River Raid anyone? > That would be really cool. I had River Raid for the C64, and loved it. > I was pretty good at it to even if I do say so myself. But that was > when I was about 10-12 I guess! > Graham Searle > esrsm@eng.warwick.ac.uk I pleayd it whan I was 7, but it's still a good game for a really boring class... -- There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want Bill Watterson Bruno Barberi Gnecco ICQ #1383173 - PGP 5.0i user [I'm running Linux] -=-=- Electric Engineering at Politechnic School, USP Check my homepage at http://graphx.home.ml.org * C, 3D graphics, and more === Subject: question about rpl I am using an hp48gx since 2 years, but today I done a race in order to show to TI92 user that rpl is the fastest. In this equation was exp(15), and when I do it my hp say : 3269017.37247 and qpi doesn't find it back. So how can I do to have exp(15) in the stack. Any suggestion? -- S.8ebastien Mannheim sebm@pandemonium.fr www.pandemonium.fr/A/mim === Subject: Re: question about rpl : In this equation was exp(15), and when I do it my hp say : 3269017.37247 and : qpi doesn't find it back. : : So how can I do to have exp(15) in the stack. You can have 'EXP(15)' in the stack or 3269017.37247 which is close enough for most purposes. QPI (at least my version of it) works for integer powers of e from 1 to 7, fails from 8 to 12 with an Overflow Error and returns a fraction for larger powers. Anyone with a better QPI ? Pete Commercial email sent to this address will be proofread === Subject: Re: question about rpl > QPI (at least my version of it) works for integer powers of e from 1 to 7, > fails from 8 to 12 with an Overflow Error and returns a fraction for > larger powers. Anyone with a better QPI ? the latest QPI 4.3 (http://www.hpcalc.org/math/symbolic/qpi43.zip, or http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/hp48/qpi43.zip) works fine for EXP till 12. Jens http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: Portable IR printing Link not found, please give us a working one >Sorry that I missed the beginning of this thread, but Doctor PalmPilot >just posted an in the trenches review of PalmPrint and the GoType >keyboard. Read it at http://oac1.oac.tju.edu/~info/JMG/ > === hello, if you have, please send me, it. === hello, if you have, please send me, it. > I'd write one but my HP48 is a member of the AA How about you Jimmy, you an oakman? P.F.Geelhoed@Student.TN.TUDelft.NL === Subject: comp.sys.hp48 FAQ : What's New in the HP48 FAQ v4.56? Summary: Answers to Frequently Asked Questions about HP48 calculators Keywords: FAQ, HP48 *** REPOST *** New in v4.56 o Added Q/A: Why do I get a complex answers for roots of negative numbers? o Added Q/A: How do I generate a function table? o Updated Q/A: How does the HP48 compare with other calculators? o Updated Q/A: How can I protect my LCD? o Updated Q/A: Using a modem with the HP48 o Updated Q/A: What is the HP48 G+? o Updated HP support telephone number o Changed all references from hp48.ml.org to www.hpcalc.org -- Andre Schoorl PGP key available on request/keyserver Comp Engineering, UVic, Canada Linux/HP48 http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/ === Subject: comp.sys.hp48 FAQ : 4 of 4 - Best Programs and Where to Get Them Summary: Answers to Frequently Asked Questions about HP48 calculators Keywords: FAQ, HP48 Archive-name: hp/hp48-faq/part4 Last-modified: 10/25/1998 Version: 4.56 Posting-Frequency: Every 14 days or so -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 post548 13.1. Best Programs and Where to Get Them List This list is designed to help HP48 users locate useful, well written programs for their HP48, selected by HP48 users who send in recommendations for their favourite programs. Compatibility is noted by either SX (SX only), GX (GX only), SX/GX (SX and GX), or SX?/GX (Works on GX, not sure about SX). Most of the sites below require Internet access. However CompuServe has a modest HP48 archive in the HP handhelds forum. Type go HPHAND to access the forum. HP48 specific files can be found in DL 3. America Online also has an HP area you can access using Keyword PDA. Note that for most FTP sites, any programs in uploads directories are subject to movement into their appropriate directories (i.e. games or utilities), or removal by the archive maintainer. There is also the possibility that the program might have a slightly different name than the one given below, especially if newer versions are available. If information has changed that you know of, let me know so I can update the list. One site in particular, ftp.cis.com, is intended for G/GX programs only. However the programs in the uploads directory of ftp.cis.com are not necessarily GX compatible. As such, please do not upload non- I have also released my personal HP48 archive, which is updated regularly. It should contain all of the following programs, as well as lots of others. More information can be obtained at: Applications o StringWriter (SX/GX): This is a replacement editor by Jean-Yves Avenard. It offers such features as cut, copy, paste as well as a choice of fonts. Available at http://www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/ o ChemLab (SX/GX): A very fast, efficient, and complete periodic table from Arnold Moy. Available at o EXAL (SX/GX): Great spreadsheet program by Al Arduengo. Available at o GxTools (GX): GxTools is in effect a Toolbar for your G/GX consisting of many useful utilities. Put together by Jack Levy and available at o HP-Writer (GX): This editor by Paquot Christophe is small, fast, and uses UFL FNT2 but still has all the important features. The current version is available at . o MiniWriter (SX/GX): Small, fast, FNT1 text editor by Jean Yves Avenard. Available at http://www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/ o Organizer (SX/GX): Organizer is a library designed to act as a Personal Information Manager, or PIM. The goal is to create a high-speed, easy to use, compact, yet fully functional PIM for the HP48. Organizer includes a calendar, appointment scheduler, annual events, TODOs, and a phone manager. Also by Jack Levy and at o Remote-BG (SX/GX): Use your HP48 as a remote control! This is the best of the remote control programs and has the ability to learn new codes. By Bjorn Gahm, available at o Scribe (SX/GX): Scribe is a library which will function as a Database or Rolodex. It is designed to hold a large amount of information in such a manner that it is easy to retrieve, quick to find, and transparent in usage. Another great program from Jack Levy at Documents o AUR Information (GX): Information on the Advanced User Reference Manual compiled by Adrian Drury. Available at o FAQ (SX/GX): Contains valuable answers to Frequency Asked Questions. Read it! The latest version is available at . o GX Programming Tips (SX/GX): This document by Doug Cannon briefly describes how to write code that runs on both SX and GX. Available at o Library Info (SX/GX): Information on the structure and use of libraries. By Charlie Patton. Available on Goodies Disk 8. o ML Input (SX/GX): How to get keyboard input from ML. By Joe Ervin. Available on Goodies Disk 7. o RPLMAN.DOC (SX/GX): This document was written by HP and released without support to HP48 users. It describes how to program in System RPL. Available on Goodies Disk 4. o Saturn (SX/GX): Saturn Processor Reference guide by Matthew Mastracci. The URL is o SASM.DOC (SX/GX): Also from HP, this is the unsupported guide to machine language programming for the Saturn processor. Available on Goodies Disk 4. Games o Arkanoid (SX/GX): Breakout clone with editor - by HP Mad. SX version available on Goodies Disk 8. There is also a GX version floating around, try o Boulder DasHP (SX): Classic game of Boulder Dash by David Presle ORUS. Get the diamonds without getting smashed by falling rocks or running into enemies. Available on Goodies Disk 8. o Columns (SX/GX): Tetris-like game by Spartacus. Available at o Columns II (GX): Columns with grey scale for GX only, again by Spartacus. Available at o Diamonds (SX/GX): Great game by Doug Cannon! Control bouncing ball to get the diamonds. Available at o ICE Cube (SX/GX): Great action arcade game in four levels of grey scale by Lilian Pigallio. Available at ftp.cis.com. o Jytris (SX/GX): One of the best tetris games including music, cartoons, bombs, and grey scale intro. Written by Laurent Jouanneau. Separate libraries are available for all HP48s (including minimized libraries for S and G). All of which are available at ftp.cis.com. In particular, the GX version is at o Hapaman (GX): PacMan clone by Davor Jadrijevic. Available at o La Mine aux Diamants (SX/GX): Another Boulder Dash clone. By Lilian Pigallio. Available at o Lemmings (SX/GX): Save the lemmings from killing themselves! By C. de Dinechin. GX version is available at and SX version is at o LodRunner (GX): LodeRunner clone for the HP! By HPOWER, with improvements from Mika Heiskanen. Available at ftp.cis.com. o Phoenix (SX/GX): Phoenix clone by Davor Jadrijevic. GX version is available at and SX version is at o Quick Reversi (SX): Fastest Reversi by Leon Pavlov. Quite smart! Available on Goodies Disk 8. o Tetris (SX/GX): Tetris clone - small, fast, great! By Detlef Mueller. Available at wuarchive.wustl.edu. o SCHIP (SX/GX): Video game interpreter for SCHIP designed games. By Erik Bryntse. SX version available on Goodies Disk 3. GX version available at o Vaders (SX/GX): Space Invaders by Joe Ervin. Available at o WarioHP Land (SX/GX): Adventure game similar to Mario Land. By Julien Meyer and available at o Willy (SX/GX): Side scroller game by Mario Mikocevic. Available at Graphics o 4 Colors (SX/GX): Utilities for making four shade greyscale graphics. By Lilian Pigallio and available at o Claudia (SX/GX): Greyscale demo of Claudia Schiffer, the supermodel. By Mohamed Fatri. Available at Math o ALG48 (SX/GX): Very fast algebraic manipulation utilities by Mika Heiskanen and Claude-Nicolas Fiechter. Available at o CNTR (SX/GX): Discrete and continuous control systems design; Inverse Z and Laplace Transforms. By Cesar Crusius. Available at o Erable (SX/GX): Tons of powerful math utilities! By Bernard Parisse. This package is a successor to the ALGB package by the same author. The latest version is at o Math (SX/GX): Symbolic/numerical matrices and polynomials by Cesar Crusius. Available at o Matrix (SX/GX): Very fast matrix writer replacement by Arnold Moy. Handles real and complex matrices, and uses the UFL small font for its display. Available at o MTools (SX/GX): MathTools by Jack Levy. Faster and friendly replacements for the HP's math functions. Available o QPI (SX/GX): Replaces ->Q, shows quotients, and functions of pi, radicals, LN and EXP. Very useful! THe latest version can be found at o SolveSys (GX): Solves systems of equations. By Sune Bredahl. Available at o STAT03 (GX): STAT03 is a collection of fairly fast statistical/matrix utilities. It contains 49 more or less useful commands. About 25% is written in ML. The author is Christian Meland, and it is available at PC o HP-IDE (Win32): HP-IDE is a SysRPL/ML IDE for Win32, making directory and library creating much easier to do (completely on your PC). Available at o HP48 Explorer (Win32): This program runs in Windows 95 and helps simplify file transfers. It is available at o HPShell (DOS): The HPShell is a development environment for HP48 programming on PC. It handles transfers as well as editing and character translation. Available at Programming o Jazz (SX/GX): This is best System RPL and Machine Language development library that runs right on your HP48! Written by Mika Heiskanen. The Jazz library provides commands for assembling, disassembling and debugging both System RPL and machine language. Latest full version is available at and corresponding light version at o HP's Tools (DOS): Development tools for System RPL and libraries on the PC. On Goodies Disk 4. o GNU-Tools (Unix, DOS): A set of replacements for HP's development tools by Mario Mikocevic (Mozgy) which that not only runs on DOS, but also typical Unix systems such as Linux and Solaris. It is distributed in both source and binary form. Many of the larger HP48 programs like Jazz, Java, and the UFL were developed with GNU-Tools. It is available at: o o o SSS (SX/GX): The SysRPL Shell by Stefan Wolfrum provides an interface that helps you program in System RPL. Available at Utilities o BKUP (SX/GX): BKUP is written entirely in System RPL and is intended to make a backup of any port(s) the user specifies. By Bob Apodaca, available at o FF (GX): This File Finder is designed for users with large directory structures. It accepts a string and will search your directories recursively for matches. By Jorge Costa and available at o FIXIT (SX/GX): This program by Mika Heiskanen and Joe Horn repairs HPHP48- bad downloads. Available in ASC format in the FAQ as well as on Goodies Disk 8. o FXRECV (GX): Fixes bug in X-Modem for G/GX. Not necessary for Rom R. By Cary McCallister. Available on Goodies Disk 9. o HP82240B Emulator: Allows you to emulate the HP82240B IR Printer. Written by Jarno Peschier and at o PCT (SX/GX): Both SX and GX versions are available of this file and library maintenance program. Available at the standard sites. Be sure to use the correct version for your machine! In particular the TREE.PCT file is an S/SX program that is a common cause of crashes on G/GX machines. o UFL (SX/GX): The Universal Font Library provides a centralized location for common fonts between programs. Also comes with a Font Maintenance Library (FMnt). Maintained by Andre Schoorl and available at o USEND/URECV (SX/GX): Significantly faster IR file transfers! Approximately 4 to 6 times faster than SEND. By Dan Kirkland. Available at o STOFIX (GX): Fixes STO bug on Roms L and M. By Detlef Mueller. Available at Sound o Tricorder (SX/GX): This program will make your HP48 beep when it is held close to an object using the IR port. Great for amusing friends! Written by Steven Ourada, and available at Stack Replacements and Related Programs o EQStk (SX/GX): 7-line replacement stack intended for mathematics. View objects on the stack in their native form. By Mika Heiskanen. Available at o Java (SX/GX): The totally improved 5-line stack environment! Includes lowercase menus, improved status area, on-stack algebraics, improved interactive stack, configurable font, scroller, fast ML routines and more. By Richard Steventon, Andre Schoorl (hey that's me!), and Will Laughlin. The latest released version (3.2a) is available at o MetaKernel (GX): This is a total replacement for a lot of built in HP48 ROM code, including the stack, editor, equation writer, matrix writer, and picture environments. It also includes SysRPL and ML development tools. A lot of work has been put into it to make everything extremely fast. The MetaKernel requires a GX and is sold on a ROM card. Documentation is available in both French and English. The full version must be purchased from the authors, but a demo version is available at 13.2. Other Web / FTP Sites o o o o o o o o o o o o o o 13.3. FTP by Electronic Mail For those of you who don't have FTP access, you can FTP programs by mail. To do this, you send commands via e-mail message to the ftpmail server, and it then sends back the programs, usually in a uuencoded format by e-mail. For access to any ftp site, I recommend the sunsite ftpmail server. To get more information, send a mail message to with the contents of: help quit There are other FTP by mail servers like the sunsite server, but they are more heavily used, and take longer. 13.4. Bulletin Boards with HP48 Programs Official Hewlett Packard BBS (48) o Phone: (208) 344-1691 ; Corvallis, Oregon. o Second Node: (541) 715-3277 ; Speed: 9600 baud Foundations in Science (48/100) o Phone: (206) 562-7083 644-2723 ; Speed: 14.4 o Contact: UAH ACCESS BBS (28/48/95/100) Phone: (205) 895-6152 ; U. Alabama Huntsville. The Ninth Bit BBS (48) o Phone: (405) 372-7204 ; Speed: 14.4 o Contact: Raiders of Lost Arg (48/95) o Phone: (416) 968-6633 ; Speed: 38400 N81 o Contact: NES BBX (48) Phone: (503) 640-4263 ; Goodies Disks in File Area 22 [(hp)]al BBS (48/95/100) o Phone: (612) 642-5906 ; Features: Usenet, E-Mail o Contact: Electronic Design News BBS (48) Phone: (617) 558-4582 ; Features: Open to All Nybble's Byte (28/48/95/100/etc) o Phone: (708) 304-0666 ; Speed: 28.8 o Features: 24 hr. Usenet/Internet Terrapin Station (48) Phone: (708) 657-9543 48 Files BBS (48) o Phone: (801) 371-8760 ; Speed: 14.4 o Features: Over 3000 files The ONE BBS (48) Phone: +33-149-887-691 ; France. Cyberbox (48) o This German BBS has a filebase that contains about 1000 Files, 30MB. All are zipped, with descriptions. o Contact: Patrick.Werner@cyberbox.de o Phone: o Line 01-04 : +49-441-3990033 USR 2400-33600 o Line 05-06 : +49-441-9396977 ISDN X.75 o There is also full access to the filebase at . The start page for all file areas is 13.5. HP Goodies Disks The HP Goodies Disks are a set of disks that are chock full of great HP48 files. They are collected by Joe Horn, and are available on the Internet. They contain all shareware/freeware files. Currently there are 11 disks. They can be obtained via anonymous ftp from the places listed below. In the listings above, they are referred to by GD #. All the goodies disks have a file fileinfo.src which contains an index of all the files. I would recommend everybody looking through all these disks, as there is lots of great stuff on them! o o o UAH BBS: (205) 895-6152 o CompuServe: go HPHAND ; DL 3 14. Contributors (covering a total of 16 countries) for their invaluable help in compiling this FAQ: U.S. and Canada: Dave Arnett, Allen Arnold, Diego Berge, Rich Brown, Doug Cannon, Andrew Chen, Dallan Christensen, James Cook, John Cutter, Andrew Dooley, Chuck Dinsmore, Jeff Dubin, Egan Ford, John Goerzen, Paul Hart, Joe Horn, David Johnson, Jack Levy, Keith Maddock, Scott Marlowe, Thomas De Matteis, John Meyers, David Moisan, Derrik Pates, David Peterson, Othniel Rawlins, Eric Rechlin, David Rice, Ray Richardson, Maynard Riley, Jake Schwartz, Jeremy Smith, Chris Spell, Lee Studley, Deborah Lynn Williams, Mark Wilson, Patrick Yagle. Jean-Francois Larin, Arnold Moy, Jeff Sketchley, Matt Willis, Ryan Youck. Europe: Rachid Benzaoui (France), Jorge Costa (Portugal), Yves Gadioux (France), Bjorn Gahm (Sweden), Maarten van den Hoek (Netherlands), Pieter-Bas IJdens (Netherlands), Peter Karp (Germany), Jens Kerle (Germany), Wlodek A C Mier-Jedrzejowicz (U.K.), Mario Mikocevic Mozgy (Croatia), Makoto Miyamoto (Germany), Bernard Parisse (France), Matthias Paul (Germany), Jarno Peschier (Netherlands), Lilian Pigallio (France), Rob Simpson (U.K.), Klaus Wolferts (Germany), Stefan Wolfrum (Germany), Stevens Wouter (Belguim), Matjaz Vencelj (Slovenia). Elsewhere: Guido Carvajal (Chile), Cesar Crusius (Brazil), Kevin Cheng (Australia), Antonio Pacheco (Venezuela), Alejandro Arrieta Rios (Chile), Richard Steventon (South Africa). -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNjNWx+hzXOws+qC7EQLiLgCgznK0zUrz1De3aPooiVo43IMXuYkAnRBG h4Xp2oMxEG8gD5B9F2gYc8u1 =Esoi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- === Subject: Re: Mac Powerbook G3 To anyone out there: Have a new G3-up and running. Have made slides for a presentation tomorrow and have my G3 hooked up by scsi to a proxima ultralight DS1 projector. All parameters on the projector are met but no picture is coming forth. The proxima folk don't know from Diddly about Mac PowerbookH G3's. Anyone out there know what I'm supposed to be doing?-Please help-Forever greatful!! Bud -- -- Mailto:bud600@earthlink.net === Subject: Re: Mac Powerbook G3 I sure hope you're controlling the projector or computer(I think the Mac could use some help) with a HP calculator otherwise I think there is a mac group around somewhere. <366032C1.6041@earthlink.net>... >To anyone out there: Have a new G3-up and running. Have made slides for a presentation >tomorrow and have my G3 hooked up by scsi to a proxima ultralight DS1 >projector. All parameters on the projector are met but no picture is >coming forth. The proxima folk don't know from Diddly about Mac >PowerbookH >G3's. Anyone out there know what I'm supposed to be doing?-Please >help-Forever greatful!! >Bud >-- >-- >Mailto:bud600@earthlink.net > === Subject: Re: Problems with Java >Hi all, I've been using Java for a few weeks on a HP48SX rev. J >The program has some bugs I haven't heard about before: the directory >line ALWAYS shows a lot of garbage characters. I've lost several times >all the contents of my HP 128 kb's memory card with the 'Invalid Card' >message, and it was write-protected!!!. The other bugs reported also >appeared. Does the beta 14 of the 3.5 solve these problems? Which version of Java are you using? You can type SOL to see. Version 3.4 had problems with path display on S/SX machines, but was very shortly fixed with the release of 3.4a. So the path display in 3.4a and the 3.5 beta's should all work fine on both S/SX and G/G+/GX machines. If you still experience problems even after this, mail me directly and I will see what I can do. -- Andre Schoorl PGP key available on request/keyserver Comp Engineering, UVic, Canada Linux/HP48 http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/ === Subject: comp.sys.hp48 FAQ : 1 of 4 - Common Questions Summary: Answers to Frequently Asked Questions about HP48 calculators Keywords: FAQ, HP48 Archive-name: hp/hp48-faq/part1 Last-modified: 10/25/1998 Version: 4.56 Posting-Frequency: Every 14 days or so New in v4.56 o Added Q/A: Why do I get a complex answers for roots of negative numbers? o Added Q/A: How do I generate a function table? o Updated Q/A: How does the HP48 compare with other calculators? o Updated Q/A: How can I protect my LCD? o Updated Q/A: Using a modem with the HP48 o Updated Q/A: What is the HP48 G+? o Updated HP support telephone number o Changed all references from hp48.ml.org to www.hpcalc.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 HP48 Frequently Asked Questions List (FAQ) Andre Schoorl v4.56, 25 October 1998 Answers to Frequently Asked Questions about HP48 calculators ______________________________________________________________________ Table of Contents 1. Introduction 1.1 Overview 1.2 This FAQ in Other Formats 1.3 Translations of this FAQ 2. Miscellaneous Questions 2.1 I'm a novice, and I have some questions. Where should I start? 2.2 What Usenet Newsgroups are there for the HP48? 2.3 What are some good FTP sites for the HP48? 2.4 Are there any good WWW links for HP48 stuff? 2.5 Is there an HP48 IRC Channel? 2.6 How can I search for a specific HP48 file? 2.7 What are good places to buy HP48's and accessories? 2.8 What happened to EduCalc? 2.9 Are there any CD-ROMs with HP48 software? 2.10 Where can I find HP conference videotapes? 2.11 Are there any HP48 Emulators? 2.12 Is the HP48 Allowed on SATs, AP, or ACT Tests? (U.S.) 2.13 When is the next HP coming out? Should I wait? 2.14 How does the HP48 compare with other calculators? 2.15 What is the Universal Font Library (UFL)? 2.16 What are the best alternate editors? 2.17 Are there any PC fonts for the HP48? 2.18 Is the HP48 serial number available in memory? 2.19 What is the format of the HP48 serial number? 3. Questions about ROM versions 3.1 What does the SX/GX have that the S/G doesn't? 3.2 What is the difference between the HP48 G/GX and the HP48 S/SX? 3.3 What is the HP48 G+? 3.4 How can I tell what ROM revision I have? 3.5 What bugs exist in the various versions of the HP48? 3.6 What is new with the revision J ROM? (S/SX) 3.7 What happened to ROM revisions G, H, I, O, and Q? 3.8 Can I upgrade my HP48 S/SX? 3.9 Can I upgrade my buggy GX to the latest ROM revision? 3.10 What's the latest ROM version? 3.11 Why would I buy a S/SX rather than a G/GX? 4. Questions about the Operating System and Using the HP 4.1 How do I find the checksum of an object? 4.2 I typed RULES on my G/GX and got a crossword puzzle! 4.3 Why does my HP48 occasionally freeze for a moment? 4.4 What do I do if my HP48 locks up? 4.5 My HP48 seems to take longer to turn on and off. 4.6 What are all the different ON-KEY combinations? 4.7 What are the different interactive self-tests? 4.9 What are the best methods for installing and removing libraries? 4.10 How can I attach large libraries? 4.11 What are those little numbers near the top of my screen? 4.12 Can I use my HP48 as a remote control? 4.13 Can the HP48 be used as a DTMF phone dialer? 4.14 How can I run a program on warmstarts and/or power-up? 4.15 I could speed up my HP-28S. How can I speed up my HP48? 4.16 What is the hidden directory and how do I access it? 4.17 How can I recall one object from a memory archive? 4.18 Are there any key combinations that aren't in the manual? 4.19 How do I find out about commands not in the GX manual? 4.20 How can one delete (or purge) an entire directory? 4.21 How does binary wordsize affect my calculations? 4.22 Can I add my own equations to HP's Equation Library? 5. Questions about Math, Plotting, and Equations 5.1 Why does (1/3)*3 equal 0.999999999999? 5.2 Why does my HP say that 0 to the power of 0 equals 1? 5.3 What is RPN? 5.4 Why did HP use RPN in their calculators? 5.5 Is there an alternative to calculating in RPN? 5.6 Why do I get unexpected values when I add temperatures? 5.7 How can I add my own units? What's the 1_? unit for? 5.8 I want `pi' to be a numeric value, not a symbol. 5.9 What tricks are there for manipulating matrices? 5.10 Can I make my HP graph any faster? 5.11 How do I plot inequalities? 5.12 How do I take the logarithm of a base other than 10 or e? 5.13 How do I solve quadratic equations? 5.14 Why do I get a complex answers for roots of negative numbers? 5.15 How do I solve polynomials? 5.16 How can I do statistics for grouped data? 5.17 How do I generate a function table? 6. Questions about cards, data transfers, batteries, and hardware 6.1 My HP48 seems to making a high pitched noise. 6.2 Can I upgrade my S or G to more than 32K ram? 6.3 Can I add a lithium battery backup? 6.4 How can I get/build a cable for my HP48? 6.5 HP seems to offer two link kits with different prices. 6.6 Is there any communications software available? 6.7 Why doesn't the I/R port work farther than a few inches? 6.8 Can my HP48 talk to my HP100LX via Infrared? 6.9 Can I use my HP48 to communicate with IrDA devices? 6.10 Can I print to a LaserJet printer with an HP48? 6.11 I downloaded a program but all I get is HPHP48-...! 6.12 What is the structure of HP48 ASCII headers? 6.13 Why do Kermit transfers seem to get slower? 6.14 Why does XRECV not work sometimes? (GX) 6.15 Additional Tips on Transfers 6.16 What do the funny symbols in this document mean? 6.17 What are the pinouts for the HP48 serial connector? 6.18 Is there any information on interfacing to the HP48? 6.19 How can I transfer programs/data from my HP-28S to my HP48? 6.20 Can I use rechargeable batteries with the HP48? 6.21 How can I tell, from within a program, if the battery is low? 6.26 What are the advantages and disadvantages of covered ports? (GX) 6.27 Why does the HP48 display flicker slightly? 6.28 I broke the LCD screen - is there an easy way to get another? 6.29 How can I protect my LCD? 6.30 Is there a rigid (protective) case for the HP48? 6.31 Can I use my Amateur Radio with my HP48? 7. Questions about programs 7.1 Where can I get programs and information for the HP48? 7.2 What are the Goodies Disks and where do I get them? 7.3 How do I get access to the HP Calculator BBS? 7.4 What are files that end with .zip, .Z, .gz, or .bz2? 7.5 What is a ship file? 7.6 What is the ASC format and how can I use it? 7.7 What is the HYDE library, and how do I get rid of it? 7.8 What is the Minehunt game, and how do I use it? 8. Questions about programming and advanced user functions 8.1 I've heard the names RPL, Saturn, STAR, GL etc... What are they? 8.2 Is there a C compiler for the HP48? 8.3 Why do SysRPL programs run faster than UserRPL programs? 8.4 What is a good reference for learning SysRPL and ML? 8.5 Can I make my own libraries? Can I split others? 8.6 How do I know what library ID number to use for my program? 8.7 What information is there on the internals of the HP48? 8.8 Where can I get some programming development tools? 8.9 I know UserRPL. How do I get started in SysRPL? 8.10 Are there any viruses for the HP48? 8.11 How do I store fields of variable length effectively? 8.12 What is Vectored Enter, and how do I use it? 8.13 What is WSLOG? 8.14 What are SYSEVALs? 8.15 What are some useful SYSEVALs? 8.16 What are LIBEVALs? 8.17 What are some useful LIBEVALs? (GX) 8.18 What is the format of a GROB object? 8.19 What is the AUR and what information does it contain? 8.20 What is the syntax for INFORM, CHOOSE, and MSGBOX? (GX) 8.21 How do I put checkfields in my INFORM menus? 8.22 What is the syntax for the INPUT command? 9. Appendix A: Various Useful Functions 9.1 ASC Functions 9.2 OBJFIX 9.3 FIXIT 9.4 LASTX 9.5 Compact Data Storage 9.6 HP82240B Printer Codes 10. Appendix B: GX Specific Information 10.1 What's new in the HP48 G/GX? 10.2 Examples of INFORM, CHOOSE, and MSGBOX 10.3 Some useful LIBEVALs 11. Appendix C: Details of Bugs 11.1 The EquationWriter Bug 11.2 Rotation Rate to Angular Frequency Conversion Bug 12. Appendix D: Hardware Additions 12.1 How to Make a Serial Cable 12.2 Using a modem with the HP48 12.3 Additional Information on the HP48 and RS-232 13. Appendix E: Where to get HP48 Programs 13.1 Best Programs and Where to Get Them List 13.2 Other Web / FTP Sites 13.3 FTP by Electronic Mail 13.4 Bulletin Boards with HP48 Programs 13.5 HP Goodies Disks 14. Contributors ______________________________________________________________________ 1. Introduction This FAQ is maintained by Andre Schoorl It was previously maintained by Keith Maddock, and was originally contributions! I rely on your input in order to keep this FAQ up to date. If you have any suggestions or updates, feel free to mail them to me. If you have a correction or suggestion to make, please include the name of a specific question rather than its number as the number is automatically generated and can change between versions. 1.1. Overview The purpose of this FAQ is to provide answers to commonly asked questions about the Hewlett Packard HP48 family of scientific calculators. This list contains information which has not necessarily been verified, and is not guaranteed to be correct. It has been compiled from various postings in the newsgroups comp.sys.hp48 and comp.sys.handhelds, as well as other sources. In particular, some parts were taken from older HP48 SX FAQ Lists. For some questions, there may be different answers for each calculator (G/GX vs. S/SX). In this case S/SX specific information is preceeded by an SX: on the left margin of the first line of each S/SX specific paragraph. G/GX information is denoted by a GX: in the same place. If a paragraph has no notation, then it is valid for all versions. 1.2. This FAQ in Other Formats This document was made using the SGML-Tools (Standard Generalized Markup Language) package and is available in ASCII, HTML, and PostScript versions. All versions come from the same source, and are thus updated simultaneously. The URL for the HTML version is . The other formats are also available here in separate zip files. The PostScript version is formatted for letter size paper, but it is also possible to create PostScript for legal size paper. Furthermore, DVI, LaTeX, Lyx, Info, and RTF forms of the FAQ are also possible. Since it is impractical to provide all of these formats, the SGML source is available in case anyone wants to create one of these formats on their own. Text only versions of the FAQ will be posted to the newsgroup comp.sys.hp48 as needed (usually every two weeks). Also, remember that all official FAQs (including this one) are mirrored at . Furthermore, it is posted to comp.answers and news.answers. I will sign all text versions with PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) using the following key for authenticity, and provide MD5 Checksums for the remaining files. You can get a copy of this public key from the keyserver at , or through the URL above. Type Bits KeyID Created Expires Algorithm Use sec+ 1024 2CFAA0BB 1997-06-21 --- DSS Sign and Encrypt sub 2048 F940E148 1997-06-21 --- Diffie-Hellman uid Andre P. Schoorl Alternatively, you can download the FAQ at one the following locations: North America: o o Europe: o o 1.3. Translations of this FAQ These translations may not be as up to date as the main FAQ, but should still be useful for international users who are more comfortable with their native language. Portugese: o by Carlos Alberto Marangon Spanish: o by Alejandro Arrieta Rios and Guido Carvajal 2. Miscellaneous Questions 2.1. I'm a novice, and I have some questions. Where should I start? Start by perusing the HP48 manuals. You'd be amazed how many questions can be answered if you read the manuals. SX: Earlier HP48 S/SX manuals came in two volumes. The first volume dealt with operating instructions, and the second volume dealt with programming. Later HP48 S/SX manuals combined these two volumes into one. GX: HP48 G/GX models come with a one-volume owners manual that covers all of the non-programming aspects of the calculator. An Advanced User's Reference (AUR) is available that covers programming aspects. It is highly recommended. They also come with a Quick Start Guide, a guided tour of some of the HP48's capabilities. Also, look over the section Answers to Common Questions, in Appendix A of the manual. If you have a two-volume manual, it will be in volume II. 2.2. What Usenet Newsgroups are there for the HP48? comp.sys.hp48 Primary HP48 newsgroup. comp.sys.handhelds Occasionally, HP48 information is posted to this newsgroup. comp.sources.hp48 This newsgroup has been dead for years, but was once a moderated group for HP48 Programs. es.comp.sistemas.hp48 Is a spanish newsgroup for the HP48. Articles posted to the newsgroup comp.sys.hp48 are archived at . Articles are archived by year and month, with a general index covering approximately the past two years. The AltaVista search engine at also accesses these archives (for a Usenet search), and automatically DejaNews is another fast Usenet archiver/searcher, with many extra features such as Author profile and posts (uuencode, MIME) to save space. Another good way to find HP48 posts is through one of the various search engines available on the web. For example, Netscape, Lycos, expired from your local news server! 2.3. What are some good FTP sites for the HP48? Many HP48 programs can be found on the following FTP sites: o o o For a list of other HP48 FTP sites, see Appendix E-2. 2.4. Are there any good WWW links for HP48 stuff? Rather than list out a long list of HP48 related WWW resources, here is a single HP48 Page which contains links to other HP48 pages: o Another well maintained site is . 2.5. Is there an HP48 IRC Channel? Yes, try connecting to an EFNet server and join channel #hp48. Many of the most knowledgeable HP48 users frequent it, making it a nice place to get your questions answered. There are even two IRC robots (hp48b and RPL) on the channel. The following information will get you started: First, download an appropriate IRC client. Collection of clients are available at or Second, find a working EFNet server and join #hp48. A list of servers is given at 2.6. How can I search for a specific HP48 file? If you know the all or part of the filename of an HP48 program, you can use the proper Internet search services instead of bothering all the readers of the newsgroup. The following server is especially good, it seems to find HP48 files from just about anywhere. 2.7. What are good places to buy HP48's and accessories? X-Philes CD-ROM: There is a CD-ROM called the X-Philes on the market that includes many HP48 files. See the next question for more details. Office Max: Toll Free: (800) 788-8080 Wholesale Products: This is another company on the web that sells HP handhelds, including the HP48. Their address is or you can mail inquiries to The Mall At Wholesale Products 400 West Cummings Park Suite 1725-122 Woburn, MA 01801 781-438-8622 (Telephone, 9 a.m. - 5 p.m. Boston time) 781-438-8307 (FAX, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, from anywhere) E-mail: wholesal@shore.net Web: North America: o o o o o o o o o Europe: o o o o o o Others: Global Connections Incorporated (formerly Connection Point, Inc.) 50 South River Street, Suite 105, Janesville, WI 53545 Tel: (608)-752-9548 or (608)-752-1537 Oxford Educational Supplies (U.K.) Tel: 01869 343369 (mail order) Notes: No shipping charge for within U.K. Spectrum Office Equipment 22 Stokes Croft Bristol (U.K.). 0117 9428278 Best (Western U.S., used to be La Belles) 1-800-950-2378 Calculators Inc., Minneapolis, MN, U.S. (612) 866-8908 Carrington, (800) 982-3731 J&R Music World - Computer World 1-800-221-8180 Office Depot (U.S. and Canada) Service Merchandise (East Coast U.S.) 2.8. What happened to EduCalc? EduCalc, which had been one of the best sources for HP48's and accessories, went out of business on 31 December 1997. 2.9. Are there any CD-ROMs with HP48 software? Yes, there are a few CD-ROMs with HP48 software I know of: HP48 Archive CD: The most current set of files at is always available on a custom burnt CD-R. Details are at the same URL. X-Philes: The X-Philes is a CD-ROM made by Synchron Data that contains most HP48 programs to date. All together the CD-ROM contains over 21,000 files and more than 620 MB of information, mostly zipped. The HP48 sections contain 3194 files and make up 38.5 MB of the total. This includes all of the Goodies disks (aka Horn disks) 1 through 10. There are also files for HP95, Psion, TI-82 and TI-85 calculators, as well as information and programs on: Jokes, Star Trek, Sports, Midi, History, Strange files, Conspiracy, Law and Business, Internet & Networks, Atari, BBS- Systems, Hardware, Computers, 3D-Objects, Anarchy, Hacking, Movies, X-Files, Music, Magazines, Science, UFO and Aliens, Occult, Security & Privacy, Amiga, Cyberspace, Subcultures, Radio, Virus hunting, Survival, Phreaking, PC utilities, Game cheats and levels, and Programming. The CD comes with easy to use Windows software for browsing and searching for keywords. This software contains an upload feature that allows you to transfer programs directly to your HP (or modem) using X-Modem. More information on obtaining the X-Philes CD-ROM is at: WWW: E-Mail: Regular Post: Synchron Data Tranbarsvagen 25:14 372 38 Ronneby Sweden SHAREWARE Volume 1 for Hewlett-Packard: There is a CD-ROM by a German company called Yellow Computing named SHAREWARE Volume 1 for Hewlett-Packard. It sells for DEM 49.80 (U.S.$ 34.00), and is distributed from: Yellow Computing Phone +49 7136 951143 Computersysteme GmbH Fax +49 7136 951111 Postfach 1136 D-74173 Bad Friedrichshall Germany This is the German company which offers PC <-> HP-48 transfer cables together with Windows software for transfering files (the Transfile Win 48 package). The CD-ROM comes with a 16 page booklet in German and English which shows how to use the included Windows 3.1 transfer program (with program and catalogue files in both languages). It's sampled in Aug 95, pressed Oct 95 and contains about 85 MB of software for the HP48 SX/GX, 95LX, 100LX and 200LX; the Horn disks 1 through 9, and about 710 additional HP-48 programs in the 9 categories: Animation, Data, Games, Graphic, Programming, Maths, Memory, Science, Utility and Communications. It also has about 200 other unsorted, compressed HP48 files. Decompression software is included. It's not an ISO CD-ROM, since it contains directories and files, whose names contain exclamation marks, hyphens and dollar signs. Handheld HP CD-ROM Library: This collection contains 13,611 files for a total of 314 MB of compressed software for HP Handhelds. The principal groups of this collection are: 1. HP28C/S (up to 2.5 Mb) Applications, Games, Utils, Docs. 2. HP48S/SX (up to 48 Mb) Applications, Business, Chemistry, Communications, Emulators, Games, Graphics, Math, Physics, Programming, Sound, Time, Utils, Docs. 3. HP48G/GX (up to 40 Mb) Applications, Business, Chemistry, Communications, Games, Graphics, Math, Physics, Programming, Sound, Time, Utils, Docs, Sys-RPL. 4. HP38G (up to 2 Mb) Applets, Applet Development Kit, Docs. Platform files total 30 MB, additional documentation is 18 MB, various collections including the Horn disks and SysRPL collection total 106 MB, and finally 58 MB of information from HP groups around the world. For more information, orders, and pricing send e-mail to Ingenieur Professional CD ROM This is another German CD issued by Harald Kresin and Franz Lorenz. It contains roughly 67 MB of HP Software. Their web page is and their e- mail is <05713201317@t-online.de; Their address is Franz Lorenz Pocketcomputer & Zubehoer Bruchstr. 51, D-32423 Minden Germany 2.10. Where can I find HP conference videotapes? Jake Schwartz maintains a list of videotapes of HP handhelds meetings / demos / conferences going back as far as 1986 and the intro of the HP18C. They are available at relatively low cost to anyone who is interested. The URL is . 2.11. Are there any HP48 Emulators? A fully functional HP48 emulator by Eddie Dost called x48 is available. It runs in X-Windows on any Unix based operating system like Linux or Solaris. However, it requires a ROM dump of an HP48 to run. Of course, due to copyright laws such a ROM dump cannot be distributed with the x48 package. Therefore, you must be the proud owner of an HP48 (S/SX or G/GX) in order to create your own ROM dump. The emulator will look and act either like a S/SX or a G/GX, depending on what type of ROM dump you give it. Further instructions are contained in the x48 package itself. The latest version of x48 is available at There is also a freeware emulator for Windows called Emu48. It is written by Sebastien Carlier, and runs under either Windows 95 or NT. It offers many exciting features, including fast speed, saving of memory, direct loading of files onto the stack, a greatly customizable interface, and support for ports through 33. It supports both S/SX and G/GX ROM dumps, and comes with a RomDump Wizard to help you create one. The binaries and full C++ source code, distributed under the GNU Public License, as well as more information, are available at An emulator for the HP38, based on Emu48 has also been created. It is available at There is also an HP48 S/SX/G/GX Emulator for Amiga computers called Alcuin. See for more information. 2.12. Is the HP48 Allowed on SATs, AP, or ACT Tests? (U.S.) The S/SX/G/GX are allowed on the SAT's. The S/SX/G/GX are allowed on the SAT II Math IIc test, but no calculators are allowed on any of the others. The S/SX/G/GX are allowed on the AP Calculus exam. However, only the S/SX are allowed on the AP Chem and AP Physics exams because the G/GX has the built in equation library. Update from: Sandler Rubin As of 1996, HP 48G calculators are allowed on the physics and chemistry APs, but only for the free response section. All calculators are now banned on the multiple choice sections on the physics and chemistry APs. As for calculus, the HP 48G is allowed on one half of the multiple choice and all of the free response. The other half of the multiple choice on the calculus test must be completed without any calculator. These changes have occurred because the AP tests are now more conceptual and depend less on pure number-crunching. In the free response sections of the chemistry and physics tests, lists of important physics equations are include for student use which basically make the HP 48G EqLib redundant. Update from: John Goerzen After a lot of discussion with Candance Noble of ACT, they changed their policy to allow it only if the IR port is covered with opaque tape. Their response follows: This notice is in response to questions ACT has received about acceptable calculators. Please pass this clarification on to others. Effective Fall 1996, examinees may use calculators on the ACT Assessment and PLAN Mathematics Tests. Students taking the ACT Assessment should review page 3 of Registering for the ACT Assessment. Students taking PLAN should review page 4 of the Planning Guide for Students and Parents. All makes and models of calculators are acceptable -- including programmable calculators and hinged calculators with mathematical formulas printed by the manufacturer on the inside flap -- provided the calculator does not have any of the unacceptable features specified in the ACT publications noted above and further clarified below. Examinees using unacceptable calculators will be dismissed from testing. The following information is provided to help students select an acceptable calculator if they choose to use one on the ACT Assessment or PLAN Mathematics Test. POCKET ORGANIZERS, HANDHELD OR LAPTOP COMPUTERS All such devices are prohibited. ELECTRONIC WRITING PADS/PEN INPUT DEVICES Such models are readily recognizable due to the pen or stylus used to input data. All such devices are prohibited. The term QWERTY derives from the first six letter keys (left to right) of the top row of typewriters, personal computers, most handheld and laptop computers, pocket organizers, and specialized calculators. All models with QWERTY keyboards are prohibited. PAPER TAPE If a calculator has a feature that provides paper output, the paper must be removed to make the calculator acceptable. NOISE Calculators that have a talking or audio feature are acceptable in a group testing situation only if the sound feature has been turned off. WIRELESS COMMUNICATION Calculators that can communicate (transfer data or information) wirelessly with other calculators can be recognized by the window or infrared data port on the top edge of the calculator, similar to one on a television remote control. Such calculators are acceptable only if the wireless transfer capability is disabled by placing opaque material (such as masking tape) over the infrared data port. POWER CORD If a calculator can run on either battery or electrical cord, the electrical cord must be removed to make the calculator acceptable. 2.13. When is the next HP coming out? Should I wait? No-one one really knows for sure. There have been rumors for years now. But so far, that's all they have been - rumors. Those who know won't talk. Of course, people will speculate. But the people who work for HP won't say a thing. While it may be a point of professionalism, it's probably also something that they can't do, contractually. So it's rude to ask. Why do they do this? It makes sense, from HP's perspective. HP, unlike some other calculator companies, waits until a product is ready before marketing it. For example, the HP38 was a surprise. Think what would happen to sales if HP announced a new calculator was coming out in 6 months. Even if HP announced a new calculator tomorrow, I don't think I would upgrade right away. Why? Well, when the 48 G/GX came out, it went through revisions K, L, M, P and then R (to check what version of G/GX you have, type VERSION). The next calculator, by Murphy's Law, is bound to initially have just as many bugs when it first comes out. 2.14. How does the HP48 compare with other calculators? What are the differences between the HP48 and the TI? Before listing the differences, I wish to let you know that the HP48 has much more functionality than the TI's. However, these additional functions are usually of no help in high school than the TI. Instead, they are only helpful in college depending on the course you take. The TI is probably a better choice on tests in high school since it is easier to use (to most people) and does calculations faster (because it offers speed at the expense of the higher precision of the HP48). Please note that the HP also offers the HP38 which is more comparable to a TI-82. Also, you should realize that if you want support for the graphing calculator, the HP48 is the one to get. Although you can get support from Texas Instrument (by phone and by web), and also by teachers in school, you can get support for the HP48 from a larger group in the world. There are far more web sites related to the HP48 than to the TI graphing calculators. Also, the HP48 has its own newsgroup and its own IRC channel (usually up 24 hours a day and maintained by a bot that can send you programs at your request). Please note that although the calculation and graphing capabilities may not be available for a particular calculator, you can usually download a program that extends such a capability to it. If you find that part of the information below is incorrect, please tell me about it. You may need to provide additional proof, if I am unable to confirm it. Any additional information on the TI-92 is helpful because much about it is still a mystery. General Differences: Calculator HP38 HP48(2) TI-82(3) TI-85 TI-92 List Price(4) $109 $135/$265 $125 $135 $250 Available Mem.(5) 32KB 32/128KB 28.2KB 28.2KB 70.0KB Batteries Req.(6) 3AAA 3AAA 4AAA+1 4AAA+1 4AA+1 Plug-in Cards No Yes(7) No No Yes (Plus) Infrared Transmit. Yes Yes(8) No No No Wire Transmit. Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Cal-to-PC trans(9) Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Overhead display Yes Yes(10) Yes Yes Yes CBL support(11) No No* Yes Yes Yes QWERTY keys(12) No No* No No Yes Screen capture Yes Yes via link via link via link Screen Resolution 131x64 131x64 96x62 128x64 240x128 Character Display 22x8 22x8 16x8 21x8 ????? Miscellaneous Functions: Calculator HP38 HP48(2) TI-82(3) TI-85 TI-92 Simple Eq. Solver Yes Yes No Yes Yes Simult. Eq. Solver ????? Yes No Yes Yes Poly. Root Finder No limit No limit No 30th order Yes # of matrices 10 No limit 5 No limit No limit max matrix size(12) No limit 125x125 15x15 30x30 99x999 Graphing Functions: Calculator HP38 HP48(2) TI-82(3) TI-85 TI-92 Simultaneous Graph Up to 10 No limit Up to 10 Up to 99 Up to 99 Zoom features 14 15 13 15 ????? Graph Tracing Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Fnc. Value Tables Yes No Yes No Yes Parametric Graphs Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Polar Graphs Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Recur. Seq. Graphs Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Diff. Graphs No Yes No No No Conic Graphs No Yes No No No 3-D graphs No 7 types No No Yes Area under Curve No Yes Yes Yes Yes Extremum Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Roots Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Slopes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Tangent Lines No Yes No No ??? Statistical Functions: Calculator HP38 HP48(2) TI-82(3) TI-85 TI-92 Scatter Graphs Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes X-Y line Graphs No No No No Yes Box-Whisker Plots Yes No Yes No Yes Histogram Plots Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Regression Graphs No Yes Yes Yes Yes Bar Graphs Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Truth Graphs Yes Yes No No No Notes: 1. In the specifications, no limit usually means that it is limited by memory only. 2. There are five different HP48 calculators. There are the HP48S, HP48SX, HP48G, HP48G+, and HP48GX. The S and SX models are older models, and no one would be getting them anymore since the G, G+ and then GX offer all the same features, but with additional enhancements to make the features easier to use. The G, G+, and GX are also 40% faster than the S and SX models. The difference two additional plug in cards. The G+ is in between, having 128K of 3. There is a new version of the TI-82, called the TI-83 which should be available soon. It offers all the features of the TI-82, except it has additional statistics and financial functions, as well as displaying a table and a graph side by side. Please note that this feature is not available on the HP48, but is available on the HP38. Also, the TI-83 has an equation solver like the HPs. 4. Cost for HP calculators does not include cables because they can transfer data via infrared. The price for TI's include the cables for linking one TI to another. Also, the HP48G's list price is $135.00, while the HP48GX's list price is $265.00. 5. The available memory listed for the HPs are slightly lower than the given values. The available memory for the HP48G is only 32 K. The 6. The batteries used by these calculators are AAA batteries. Rechargeable batteries are not recommended because they have a much lower life span than alkaline batteries. The TI's require an additional CR1616 battery to retain their memory power. The HP's do not need this additional battery, but once you take out the AAA batteries, you have about 3 minutes to replace them with new ones an CR1616 battery, however, if you plan to store it outside of the HP. 7. Only the HP48GX support plug-in cards. The HP48G doesn't. 8. If you are thinking of getting the HP's to cheat on tests because of the infrared capability, forget about it. The infrared receivers on the HP's only have a maximum range of THREE inches (The HP's transmitter has a longer range, up to several feet, but that will not help at all unless you are using it as a remote control to watch TV, or you are sending to an infrared device connected to an AC power source, such as the HP LaserJet 5 printers). 9. The Calculator to PC (or MAC) requires additional cable and software. For the HP, you only need to get the cable, which can be made from standard computer parts (a DB-9 and CD cable totaling about $15). No additional software is needed because you can use any communications program of your choice. For the TI, you can either need to purchase a proprietary software and cable for about $60 to $80 at stores or you can download the software free at TI's web site, and try to make your own cable. The same type of package is available from HP, but offers programming tools and debuggers, and costs about the same price. 10. The overhead display unit for overhead projectors is available only for the HP48GX because the HP48G does not have the available extension slot to install the necessary interface card. 11. The CBL stands for Computer Based Laboratory. It is created by TI, so it is not available on the HP of course. It simply allows you to collect data from different sources (sounds, temperature) at set intervals and can be analyzed on the calculator. The CBL unit's list price is approximately $225. Please note that there is a similar device for the HP-48, called the ADCM-48 which is a A-to-D converter and I/O interface that can read from four analog and four digital inputs. 12. Please note that calculators with QWERTY keys are not allowed on the SAT exams. The HP calculators do not have QWERTY type keyboards, but you can connect it to your computer and have the keys from your computer echo on to the HP calculator after installing a simple freeware program such as those found in . 13. The maximum matrix size on the HP48G is only 42x42. The maximum matrix size on the HP48GX is 85x85, but it can be expanded to 14. The TI-92 manual states lists can be up to 999 elements, and data can be arranged in 99 columns of 999 elements each. o Overhead display: there are special models of the TI92 to do this, standard models give bad results o Memory: The TI92-II model has 198K memory (price in France 1890 FF instead of 1390 FF) o Processor: Modified 68010 at 10MHz o Cabri-Geometre is very slow on the TI, the teachers I met at my lecture told me that they never use Cabri on the TI. o Numeric computations: The HP clearly beats the TI, especially in linear algebra (factorization of matrices, eigenvalues/eigenvectors, etc...) o Symbolic computations: The TI clearly beats the HP... without addition of any math programs. Hence I compared the TI adding the best programs available on the net (i.e. ntheory (10K) for number theory, odeproj for ordinary differential equations (40K), that was all since I had only a 70K TI92) with my HP loaded with Alg48 and Erable. The main advantage of the TI92 is speed (about 5-10 times faster than Erable, 1-2 times faster than Alg48). The main drawback on the HP48 side is the lack of a limit instruction. Some features of Alg48 and Erable are not provided by the TI92: o Factorization of integers (limited to factors less than or equal to 65520 on the TI92, integers may not have more than 614 digits on the TI92) and of polynomials (e.g. the expanded form of: (x^4+x^3+1)*(x^4+x+1) is not factored on the TI92). o Integration: the Risch algorithm is not implemented in the TI, e.g. it can not find the antiderivative of (1+2x^2)*exp(x^2) o Taylor series: This feature is probably implemented like in the HP48 ROM, hence the TI can not solve series(sin(x)/(exp(x)-1)) at x=0 for order greater than 4. o Eigenvalues/Eigenvectors/Jordanisation of matrices o Systems of polynomials equations (Groebner bases) o Ordinary differential equations are only solved with programs like odeproj, no support for Laplace or inverse Laplace transform o A lot of internal programs are not accessible to the end-user on the TI92, as the source code of Alg48 and Erable is freely available. o Programming: Assembler is now available on the TI, but there is no counterpart to SysRPL and the build-in language is comparable to a shell-script langage (with some limitations e.g. for usage of programs in functions) 2.15. What is the Universal Font Library (UFL)? The Universal Font Library, or UFL for short, is a set of libraries designed to help reduce the overhead of replacement fonts between a number of major HP48 programs. The basic idea is instead of each program containing its own replacement font(s), the fonts are stored in a cetral library to save room. In addition, the UFL comes with a Font Maintenance Library (FMnt). If you use some of the programs in the Best Programs List, you may find you need a particular UFL library installed in order to use the program. The UFL is maintained by Andre Schoorl and is distributed under the GNU General Public License. For more information and to obtain the UFL package, see . 2.16. What are the best alternate editors? If you like a smaller font, I would recommend TED by Mika Heiskanen, or MiniWriter by Jean-Yves Avenard. Both use FNT1 from the Universal Font Library (UFL) to allow font customization and to save space. MiniWriter is very small and fast, and has cut, copy, paste, and search features. It is available at http://www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/ TED has slightly more features, such as a character map, but as a result is larger. TED is based on ED, which is the editor that comes with the Jazz library. The latest version is available at . If you prefer the medium font, I would recommend HP-Writer by Paquot Christophe. It's quite small, fast, and uses FNT2 from the UFL. Its features include cut, copy, and paste, as well as a macro key and built in User RPL key support. However, it only works on G/GX. The current version is available at . Other editors include StringWriter, also by Jean-Yves Avenard, which is a very complete and full featured library. EDEN, by HPFox, is another popular editor in France. Another is QED, which was originally written by Lutz Vieweg but is now maintained by Rick Grevelle. 2.17. Are there any PC fonts for the HP48? Yes, there are several fonts on the Goodies Disks (see the Appendix), as well as some TrueType fonts available at 2.18. Is the HP48 serial number available in memory? No. There is no electronic version of the HP48 serial number. This was apparently considered by the design team, but it was determined that the costs would greatly outweigh the benefits. 2.19. What is the format of the HP48 serial number? The HP48 serial number is printed on the back of the HP48, just above the battery compartment. There are two different serial number formats. The older format was used when the HP48 was first introduced and continued through the first part of 1997. The newer format has been used on HP palmtops since about 1993 and was started on the HP calculators in the first part of 1997. The new serial numbers are in this format: ccywwnnnnn cc Place of manufacture (new two-letter code) The known codes are: o SG = Singapore o ID = Indonesia o MY = Malaysia y Year of manufacture. This represents the last digit of the year. A 7 would mean 1997. ww Week of manufacture (01-53). nnnnn The unit number for that week. (first unit on Monday is 00001) For example, if your serial number were SG72706543, the unit was the 6543rd unit manufactured in Singapore during the 27th week of 1997. The old serial numbers are in this format: yywwMnnnnn yy The year the unit was made (add 1960 to this value) ww Week of manufacture (01-53). M The manufacturing location (A for America, S for Singapore) nnnnn The unit number for that week. (first unit on Monday is 00001) For example, if your serial number were 3321S07509, the unit was the 7,509th unit manufactured in Singapore during the 21st week of 1993. 3. Questions about ROM versions 3.1. What does the SX/GX have that the S/G doesn't? SX: The HP48 S is the same as the HP48 SX except that the HP48 S does not have the two expansion slots of the HP48 SX. This means that the HP48 S cannot be expanded and can only access 32K 512K on a single card -- this memory is accessed via a bank- switching mechanism.) GX: The HP48 G is the same as the GX except for two differences. in, whereas the G only has 32K. If you plan on heavily using your calculator, you will probably find that 32K is not enough memory. In fact, some of the best HP48 Programs will not even fit in this memory! 3.2. What is the difference between the HP48 G/GX and the HP48 S/SX? The HP48 G/GX calculators are, basically, slightly faster (by 40%) versions of the HP48 S and HP48 SX calculators, with more features, such as 3D-plotting and a new forms-based interface. Much of the HP Solve Equation Library card is now built-in. See Appendix B-1 for a detailed list of GX features. Note, however, that the HP48 G/GX is different from the HP48 S/SX in a number of significant areas: also has twice the ROM (512K), compared the HP48 S/SX (256K). 2. Much of the HP48 G/GX internals have changed, compared with the HP48 S/SX. Unfortunately, this means that many programs written in assembly language or System RPL won't work on the HP48 G/GX. This is especially true of any program that tried to access the display memory directly. 3. The HP48 G/GX CPU runs at 4 MHz, instead of the 2 MHz used with the HP48 S/SX CPUs. However, due to various overheads (memory bank switching, etc.), the speed increase between the S/SX and G/GX is less than 2 times. G/GX throughput is approximately 40% faster. 4. Slot 2 of the HP48 GX can access up to 32 ports (ports 2-33) by bank switching. Each port is 128KB, for a maximum total of 4 MB in slot 2. 3.3. What is the HP48 G+? The HP48 G+ was announced 30 March 1998. It is essentially a HP48 G with more memory - it has 128K of memory instead of 32K. All G+ machines have revision R ROMs. There is no change to other aspects of the calculator model offerings. Specifically, it looks like HP has added to the HP48 family without withdrawing anything. The G, G+, and GX will all continue to be sold. The press release for the HP48 G+ is at: 3.4. How can I tell what ROM revision I have? GX: Type the command VERSION. Note that this command is not part of any key or menu, and so you must spell it out. Type #30794h SYSEVAL. It returns a string, HPHP48-x, where x is your ROM revision. This works for both SX and GX. SX: 1. Turn the calculator on (press ON and then release). 2. Press ON again, and hold it down. 3. While holding down the ON key, press and hold down the D key (the fourth white key in the top row). 4. While holding down the D key, release the ON key. 5. Release the D key. The display should be blank, with the exception of three vertical lines (one down the centre, and one down each of the right and left sides). 6. Press the backspace key (it says DROP and CLR over it). A meaningless string of digits should appear in the top line of the display (mine says 705D9:1B8DA178E5A111B6 -- yours may be different). 7. Press and hold down the EVAL key. It should say something like the following, where the ? is an uppercase letter indicating the ROM version: Version HP48-? Copyright HP 1989 8. Release the EVAL key. Hold down ON and hit C (the third white key in the top row. This is a general reset operation that returns the calculator to normal from the diagnostic stuff (which is where ON-D puts you). 3.5. What bugs exist in the various versions of the HP48? Rom: A o DEFINE rounds numbers in user-defined functions if STD is not the current display mode. o KGET on a zero length file from another machine will cause the calculator memory to be cleared. o NXEQ from the Graphics Environment with flag -3 set (SYM off in Modes) can overwrite the current equation with a number. o Displaying the clock in 24-hour format causes the one-digits for minutes to be incorrect in the alarm catalog. Roms: A-C o INV returns an incorrect result if used on an 8x8 or larger matrix. To get around this problem, divide the identity matrix with the matrix to invert. Roms: A-D o Entering a symbolic complex number in polar form like (A, f << -40 CF OFF f STOF >> >> 91.3 ASN Then turn on USER mode o EquationWriter/Character Picker Bug: If the size of the equation is greater than the regular size of the screen, calling the Character Picker in Equation Writer will garble the screen. o If you store an object into a port > 1 while there is a card installed in slot 1, the end-of-obj-sequence marker (00000) is written to port 1 instead to the destination port. This will cause the 'Invalid Card Data' warning to pop up each power on after a while and, in addition, the memory of port 1 gets currupted (if it's writeable). A temporary fix is to remove the card from slot 1 when changing the contents of the card in slot 2. However a better fix is to get the STOFIX library (available on GD#10 or at HPCVBBS, ~1K in size). o Tail Bug: The TAIL command returns an error on single length strings. This was fixed to return an empty string in later Roms. Examples: X TAIL --> Error: Invalid Dimension (Rom M) X TAIL --> (Rom R) Rom: M o Evaluating a tagged object which contains an operator (+, -, *, /, etc) as the second or subsequent character will leave an External and System Binary on the stack, as well as the original object. Roms: L, M, P o SigmaDAT: Put a NON-MATRIX in GSDAT (SigmaDAT), run STAT graphical apps, edit GSDAT. Causes a crash. left is not about twice the size of the expected file. FIX: See FXRECV on GD 9. Note that FXRECV is not necessary for Rom R, and in fact will not even run properly on Rom R. o RREF does not transform the matrix into Row Reduced Echelon Form correctly if the first column of the matrix consists entirely of zeros. It may also return incorrect answers in some matrices. A work-around for this bug is to delete any leading all-zero column(s) from the matrix; this may be done using the Matrix Writer, via its -COL menu key, or via commands: 1 COL- DROP (to drop the first column). Since row-reduction operations never change any all-zero column, you already know in advance that the given column(s) must be all-zero in the final result. Roms: L, M, P, R o portnum: { dir ... var } RCL/EVAL fails if portnum >= 2 o Rotation rate to angular frequency conversion bug. See Appendix C-2 for a complete write-up. Roms: M, P, R o Repeated executions of FFT or IFFT can cause a memory loss. The FFT and IFFT warmstart problem is caused by a CPU return stack overflow during interrupt handling. The problem can only occur when the argument to FFT or IFFT is an MxN matrix with both M > 1 and N > 1. The vector argument case is immune to this problem. FIX: To compute the FFT of a matrix without risking warmstart, expand the matrix into its row vectors using ->ROW, compute the FFT of each row vector, collect the results into a matrix using ROW->, expand the matrix into its column vectors using ->COL, compute the FFT of each column vector, and finally collect the results into a matrix using COL->. Except for less precision, this is the same result as would be obtained by applying FFT on the original matrix. Use the same procedure with FFT replaced by IFFT to compute the IFFT of a matrix. Here are program examples implementing the Matrix FFT and Matrix IFFT: MFFT << ->ROW FFTLP ROW-> ->COL FFTLP COL-> >> MIFFT << ->ROW IFFTLP ROW-> ->COL IFFTLP COL-> >> FFTLP << -> n << 1 n START n ROLL FFT NEXT n >> >> IFFTLP << -> n << 1 n START n ROLL IFFT NEXT n >> >> o Equation Writer/Equation Library interaction bug: If you pick an equation from the EQ library, enter solver for that equation, enter an algebraic on the stack like 'X^2', and press the down arrow key to view algebraic in EquationWriter, the name of the equation will appear in the EquationWriter along with the unassociated algebraic. Roms: M, P o BESTFIT: Occurs when a two dimensional array is stored in GSDAT (SigmaDAT). Pressing the BESTFIT softkey multiple times quickly can cause a warmstart, or SigmaDAT to be erased. This occurs sometimes just by pressing BESTFIT repeatedly, regardless of GSDAT content. This bug can also be triggered by pressing the BESTFIT softkey quickly after pressing any other key. Simply pressing MODL then BESTKEY quickly will trigger the bug. Rom: P o PROOT: If you put a matrix of coefficients on the stack and press PROOT repeatedly, you will get a warmstart. Roms: A-R o MatrixWriter Bug: This shows up when deactivating and reactivating any of the two direction movement fields. If you do this, the active matrix field won't move as it's supposed to. For example: Launch the matrix writer (check that your GOFORWARD field is activated). Type [1] [ENTER]. The active matrix field moves forward as it should. Deactivate the GOFORWARD field and activate it again. Now enter [2] [ENTER] [3] [ENTER]. The digits should show up on the same row, but they don't, because after you deactivated and reactivated the GOFORWARD field, the active matrix field stops moving according to the movement fields. o DTAG Bug: When the DTAG command is executed without any arguments on the stack, the error message XLIB 0 0 Error is given, which is non-standard. Roms: K-R o Equation Library Solver and Multiple Equation Solver Bug: Pressing MSOLVR or MUSER after setting user flag 63 can cause Memory Clear. Example: CLEAR, 63 CF, EQNLIB, down-arrow, ENTER, down-arrow, [SOLV], NXT, 63 SF, right-shift MUSER, DROP --> Memory Clear. This bug is also found in the HP Solve Equation Library Card (HP 82211B, but not 82211A) for the SX. 3.6. What is new with the revision J ROM? (S/SX) The revision J ROM has a faster equation writer, as well as some bug fixes. Scrolling of graphics is also faster. One problem is that the revision J ROM changed some undocumented ROM entry points, which broke those programs that used them. If you have a Rev J ROM, you will not be able to run some old programs. 3.7. What happened to ROM revisions G, H, I, O, and Q? These versions either were never released to the public, or were skipped over. I have received confirmation of the existence of a HP48 S with ROM revision F. So it appears revision F was in fact released to the public, although very few must have made before revision J came out. 3.8. Can I upgrade my HP48 S/SX? When the G/GX first came out, HP had a trade in program. This is no longer in operation. The only option remaining is to try to sell your S/SX privately. 3.9. Can I upgrade my buggy GX to the latest ROM revision? As far as I know, not any more. They had a program a in early '94, but it is over now. Contact the following for more info: Hewlett-Packard Corporation Calculator Support 1000 NE Circle Blvd Corvallis, OR 97330 Phone: (970)-392-1001 3.10. What's the latest ROM version? o Revision R is the latest ROM version of the G/GX series. o Revision J is the last ROM version of the S/SX series. 3.11. Why would I buy a S/SX rather than a G/GX? who contributed): 2. It isn't THAT outdated. 3. So what if it's a little slower? 4. You didn't need all those useless equations, graphics capabilities, and math and science functions anyways! 5. If you break it, you're out of less money! 7. You like slow file transfers, using Kermit instead of X-Modem. 8. You want to be able to use all those lists of SYSEVALs for the SX. 9. You like having only 3 ports available max. 33 is ridiculous! 10. Since it doesn't have a built in equations library it is less likely to be banned on tests. 11. Only wimps need GUI's, dialog boxes, and choose lists. 4. Questions about the Operating System and Using the HP 4.1. How do I find the checksum of an object? Many documents (including this FAQ) make references to the checksum of an object. This is a 16-bit user binary resulting from a CRC calculation on the contents of an object. This binary is supposed to be relatively unique, with only 1 change in 65536 of accidental equal checksums on two different objects. This allows you to distinguish programs that look the same but may be quite different (even if the size of them is the same). It is also often used to verify correct transmission of files. You can find the checksum of an object using the BYTES command. This will return you two things - the size of the object in bytes on level 1, and the checksum on level two. Note that while the checksum of a variable name is the same as running the checksum on the object itself, the sizes will be differ by 4.5 bytes + the size of the variable name itself. In rare cases the checksum of two objects can be the same, even if the objects are different. This is due to the limited nature of the cases. 4.2. I typed RULES on my G/GX and got a crossword puzzle! Many commercial programs (like Windows) have similar hidden screens that list the program's design team. Since they are always so cute and well hidden, they are often referred to as Easter eggs. The RULES command on the G/GX is one such example. Try using the RULES command. The names you see are as follows: /- | M G | | P DIANA | | CHARLIE X B D | | BILL U N TED A | | O A L N ALCUIN | | B I JIM V | | RON S E | -/ ALCUIN was the HP-internal code name of the HP48 G during development, because Alcuin was Charlemagne's teacher, and Charlemagne, as you remember, was the code name of the HP48 SX. The other names in the Easter egg above belong to: o BILL Wickes (list processing; Father of RPL) o CHARLIE Patton (RPL operating system) o TED Beers (parameterized outer loop; interactive stack; key handling system; high-level display management; input forms) o DIANA Byrne (project manager; plotting; graphics) o GABE Eisenstein (EquationWriter) o BOB Worsley (I/O) o PAUL McClellan (unit management; math) o CLAIN Anderson (product manager; marketing) o DENNIS York (manager) o JIM Donnelly (EQ LIB; list processing; variable tic logic; developer support) o MAX Jones (menu system; editing) o DAVE Arnett (hardware) o DAN Coffin (manuals) o RON Brooks (marketing) 4.3. Why does my HP48 occasionally freeze for a moment? The HP48 must occasionally do garbage collection to free up unused memory, and it is this garbage collection that is causing the momentary freeze. Garbage collection is where the HP48 scans through memory, looking for objects that are no longer used. Using less stack supposedly makes garbage collection go faster. The easiest way to force a garbage collection is to run MEM DROP. Otherwise you can use #05F42h SYSEVAL or the SysRPL command GARBAGE. 4.4. What do I do if my HP48 locks up? o NOTE: If you have it, read the sections in the GX manual starting on page 5-16, Special Memory Operations, and Testing Calculator Operation on page A-9. o NOTE: under most circumstances, your calculator should never lock up. Some earlier versions of the G/GX do this due to bugs. Of course, depending on the program being run, it may appear to lock up, but pressing the ON key usually interrupts whatever the calculator is doing. If it does lock up, this is usually caused by a buggy assembly-language or system RPL program, and, chances are, the memory contents of your HP48 are gone (as in destroyed, terminated, wiped out, deleted, etc.). 1. First, check the batteries to make sure that they are installed correctly. 2. Next, try is pressing the ON key again and again very RAPIDLY. The operative word here is rapidly. It's possible to write a program that can only be interrupted during a very narrow window, and so you must press the OK key again and again very rapidly to interrupt the program. If the calculator doesn't respond within ten or so seconds, go on to the next step. 3. Press ON-+ a couple of times, just in case the LCD display intensity was turned down. Here, ON-+ means: o Press and HOLD DOWN the ON key. o Press and release the + key, WHILE HOLDING DOWN THE ON KEY. o Release the ON key. 4. If this doesn't work, the next thing to try is ON-C. This is a warm-start or system halt. Note that this will CLEAR the stack. Here, ON-C means: o Press and HOLD DOWN the ON key. o Press and release the C key, WHILE HOLDING DOWN THE ON KEY. o Release the ON key. 5. If this still does not work, it is possible that the HP is not responding because it is not accepting input from the keyboard. It is possible to execute a system halt without the keyboard using the hidden reset button. The reset button is hidden under one of the two upper rubber feet on the bottom of the calculator (it's under one of the two feet near the serial connector and I/R port). Note that the location of the reset button (under which foot) varies from calculator to calculator. If you gently pull out the rubber feet, you'll notice that there is a small hole under each foot. The reset button is located in the hole that has an R next to it. Once you've located the correct hole, you press the button by GENTLY sticking an unbent paper clip, into the hole with the R next to it. Hold for one second and remove. 6. The next thing to try is a complete memory reset. Depending on the state of your calculator, this may or may not preserve the contents of memory. At the very least, even if the contents are preserved, the contents of the HOME directory will probably be moved into a new directory below HOME (HOME will be empty with the exception of this new directory); you'll have to manually move the items back into HOME. To perform a complete memory reset, press ON-A-F. This means: o Press and HOLD DOWN the ON key. o Press and HOLD DOWN THE A key, WHILE HOLDING DOWN THE ON KEY. o Press and HOLD DOWN THE F key, WHILE HOLDING DOWN THE ON AND A KEYS. o Release all of the keys. o At this point, the calculator will ask you if you want to recover memory. Answer yes to this question. Note that this can take a long time. If you answer no, all of memory will be cleared (the old contents will be lost). 7. If that fails, you should still be able to induce a complete memory reset by removing your batteries and pressing ON several dozen times. This will drain the capacitor that stores information when the batteries are removed, and you should get a Try to Recover Memory? prompt if you have pressed ON enough times to reset your calculator. If this doesn't work you can try taking the batteries out for a few hours and then putting them back again. You should definitely try this method before even considering the next step! 8. WARNING: the next method is HIGHLY unrecommended! Permanent damage to your HP can result if you try this. In particular, you could fry a couple diodes used to protect your HP48. You have been warned! If your HP48 does not respond to any of the above attempts, you might consider reversing the polarity of 2 of the 3 batteries VERY BRIEFLY, pressing ON, then correcting the batteries. Your HP48 should start with a Try to Recover Memory? prompt. Even reversing only 2 of the 3 batteries is dangerous, but it is safer than reversing all 3 batteries. Note that simply shorting the battery terminals will not discharge the storage capacitors. There are diodes between the battery terminal and the storage capacitors which prevent the DC current from flowing backward. This method apparently drains the capacitors and reverse charges them by running current through the parasitic input protection diodes in the various CMOS chips. 9. If all of the above fail, or if you decide not to try the last step, you may have to contact Hewlett Packard for service. 4.5. My HP48 seems to take longer to turn on and off. it takes), and checks to see if any libraries need initializing. Also, having a lot of alarms can supposedly also cause this. 4.6. What are all the different ON-KEY combinations? ON In most cases, this will move you to, or toward, the stack environment. ON+A+F This is the manual Coldstart. It will break out of almost any hung program, and offer you the dreaded option... Try to recover memory? Note that this is your next-to-last resort in a lock-up, so don't give your machine this three-fingered salute unless you really want to possibly clear memory. ON+B This is the Oops! key for ON codes. For many ON sequences, this cancels the operation, so long as you press the B before releasing the ON key. Try it sometime, if you must, just so you remember it. It can be a life-saver, in case of an accidental ON+A+F in process, or even accidentally hitting ON during a plotting routine. ON+C This will initiate a Warmstart. You'll lose the stack and PICT, but it will often get you out of a locked up program with memory intact. ON+D Enters interactive test mode. Back up your own machine and play around. Exit this test mode with Warmstart, ON+C. See the next question for all the various tests available here. ON+E Starts a looping self-test mode. Kinda dull after the first five minutes, but it keeps a rather solid tempo. Exit with Warmstart, ON+C. ON+4 Cancels repeating alarms. ON+1 Screen dump utility. ON+'+' and ON+'-' Adjusts display contrast. ON+SPC Initiates Coma Mode and clears Warm Start Log. In Coma mode, all the clocked activity is halted. The battery power drain is contents. The Warm Start Log is a nearly bullet-proof area of memory which keeps track of the last four hazardous events. View it using the command WSLOG. This log is one of the few things not cleared by a Coldstart. But it is cleared by ON+SPC. Enter Coma this way if you want to clear the Warm Start Log, if you are planning to study crystal healing in Tibet for a few years and want to keep your pirated version of Tetris alive, or you just have a low power fetish. Exit Coma mode with the ON key (tough to remember, huh?), and plan to find your stack cleared out. Two additional notes on this Coma stuff. First, I'm not gonna try to list the log codes in WSLOG. Sorry! Second, if your machine is on, and you drop the batteries out, you will usually end up in a coma mode to preserve power. WSLOG will not be cleared. Instead, you will find a code 1 entry there. Some people are paranoid and want to be in Coma when they change batteries, just in case they have a sudden emergency call from the Prime Minister and don't get back to their battery change for a half hour. If you are one of these... shall I say, weenies? No, that would be unprofessional ...users, then I recommend you use the ON+SPC entry route, rather than the kamikaze method of dropping batteries with the machine running. Myself, I just turn the machine OFF, like the manual says. Now, a Coma story... sort of. During the G/GX development, I maintained a small number of units on which I changed ROM chips as incremental code releases came out. This was so folks like Bill Wickes and Jim Donnelly could have fully-real hardware to test, instead of just the EPROM handsets some of you may have seen. We always backed up anything of importance in the machine before we did this. But I got into the habit of using ON+SPC before I opened up the calculator. Better than half of the time, I could remove the batteries, open the case, desolder the old surface-mounted ROM chip, solder down a new chip, and pressed ON, I'd come right back up without a Try to Recover Memory? prompt. Pretty good, huh? The folks who put that mode into the machine certainly weren't in a coma. 4.7. What are the different interactive self-tests? Pressing ON-D enters the interactive self test function of the HP48. When you first press ON-D, your HP will beep and you will see 3 vertical lines, one on each side of the screen and one in the middle. You can exit this mode with a Warmstart, ON-C. The tests are: [A] Displays CPU speed [B] LCD test. Press Enter to cycle through the tests [C] Internal ROM test [D] [E] Keyboard test. Starting with [A], press all the keys in order, left to right, top to bottom. If all goes well, the HP will show KBD1 OK. [F] Partial keyboard test [G] ESD test monitor. Battery status is shown by bars. [H] UART loop-back test [I] Wired UART echo [J] Shows what cards are plugged in. Press any key a few times. [K] [L] Blanks display [M] Sends system time from IR port [N] Receives system time from IR port (have another HP send it) [O] IR loop-back test [P] IR UART echo [S] Shows test start time [T] Shows test fail time [U V W X Y Z] Looping test [ENTER] Initialize test times [DEL] Test summary [BACKSPACE] Enters memory scanner (SX only) When the HP48 is in test mode (ON-D or ON-E), the test results that are displayed on the screen are also sent to the serial port at 9600 baud, 8 bits, no parity, 1 stop bit. This seems to be unaffected by any settings in IOPAR, PRTPAR, or the system flags. I can only guess that this feature was included for factory testing purposes. This does explain, however, why the I/O annunciator lights up so much during the self test. The HP48 S/SX/G have 32K base memory, and the GX has 128K. However not all this memory is available to the user. The operating systems uses memory for system variables, flags, fonts, last stacks, last arguments, last menus, and such. It also can be any one of a number of things: 1. Enabling the use of LAST STACK, LAST ARG, LAST CMD, etc., uses up arguments, command, etc.. This is particularly important with LAST STACK if you have a large/complex stack, as the HP48 has to keep enough information around to recreate the stack after each operation. You can clear out these variables by pressing ON-C (but also note that this will clear out the stack, the graphics PICT, etc.) a candidate for most obscure way to use up memory on the HP48 SX. When a program executes DOERR with a string argument, the string and hence the program too if the string is embedded in the program are referenced for the sake of the ERRM command. Thus if you purge the program, the memory used by the program is not reclaimed until the ERRM reference is updated to a new string. If the string is in a port, you will get the Object In Use error if you try to purge the library or backup object containing the string. A system halt prior to a PURGE will not help unless the object is in port 1 or port 2 (it will reclaim memory held by a successfully purged but still referenced object). For port 0 objects, the only way to break the reference is to execute DOERR again with a new string. 3. Occasionally, I have had problems with libraries disappearing, but still taking up memory. I found that an ON-A-F reset will cause these libraries to re-appear. If you still cannot account for a large chunk of memory, I would suggest a hardware reset, after backing up your memory. 4.9. What are the best methods for installing and removing libraries? To install a Library: 1. Download it into a variable of the calc. 2. Place the library on the stack. 3. Type the number of the port in which you want to store the library in. 0 is appropriate if you do not have any expansion cards. 4. Press STO to store the library in that port. 5. Turn the calculator off and then on, or press ON-C, to finish installation of the library. Sometimes you have to purge the variable containing the library before storing it in a port, if you are low on memory. See the next question for more information. If you have FXRECV installed: Just type a port number, hit FXRECV and the library will automatically go into the specified port. All you have to do then in turn the calc off and then on to complete the installation. To delete a Library: Say you have library 1234 in port 0 that you want to delete. 1. Go to the directory to which the library is attached. In most cases this will be HOME. 2. Enter :0: 1234 3. Press [ENTER] or type DUP 4. Type DETACH 5. Type PURGE If this doesn't work, there may be a reference to the library still in temporary memory. Try warmstarting with ON-C, then try again. Libraries with very low library numbers may require the addition of a constant in order to delete them. For example, to delete a library 4 in port 0 you can add 2048 to the library number, as follows: 1. Type :0: 2052 DETACH 2. Type :0: 4 PURGE Therefore, here is a fairly general program for detaching and purging most auto-attaching libraries; the only required argument being the real library number (e.g. 218 in the above case): << PATH SWAP HOME DUP 2048 + DETACH DTAG & ->TAG PURGE EVAL >> 4.10. How can I attach large libraries? If have just successfully transferred a library to your HP, and try to store it in a port you may get an Insufficient Memory error. This is because your HP is trying to make a duplicate copy to store in your port, but it doesn't have any memory to do so. This is especially true on the HP48 S/SX/G since they only have 32K of memory built in. The solution is to push the library onto the stack, then purge the original variable containing the library. At this point, the only copy of the library that exists is on the stack. Now you can store the library in a port as usual. This method avoids temporarily trying to have two identical copies in memory at the same time. For example, say you have a library in 'LIB' and you wish to store it in port 0. You would enter the following: o Go to the directory containing 'LIB' o Recall the library to the stack: 'LIB' RCL o Purge the original from user memory: 'LIB' PURGE o Enter port number to store in: 0 o Press STO For the opposite problem - sending large libraries you can follow the reverse procedure. That is, recall the object from the port to the stack, purge the original in the port, store it in a variable and then send it. Alternatively if the library is in a non-covered port (0/1/2 on SX or 0/1 on GX) you can use the following simple program suggested by Dan Kirkland: << -> lib << 'lib' SEND >> >> This does not require a second copy of the library and avoids all the complications of trying to purge a library and then re-installing it. 4.11. What are those little numbers near the top of my screen? The little numbers are user flags. When you or a program sets any of the user flags 1 through 5, little numbers corresponding to the set flags are displayed at the top of the screen. The HP uses negative flags for setting various modes and functions, while positive flags were reserved for the use of the user. To set a user flag type the number, then SF. To clear a user flag type the number, then CF. Some programs will use the user flags without you being aware of it. So, if you have a 1 at the top of the screen you can type 1 CF to get rid of it. 4.12. Can I use my HP48 as a remote control? There are numerous programs available for using your HP48's IR port as a remote control. However, the level of support depends on the particular unit you wish to control. The HP48 is capable of reproducing many of the IR controls of many popular brands of appliances. However, some remotes run at speeds that the HP48 is unable to reproduce. Due to their faster processor speed, the G/GX calculators are able to support more remote controls but are still limited in some cases. With typical remote programs you have to teach your HP48 by sending it the various IR sequences with the original remote control. There are some advantages to using your HP48 however: o You can impress your friends that you can use your calculator to control your TV! o You can set alarms to turn your things on and off at predetermined times. o You can use it as a universal remote. The best remote program by far is Remote by Bjorn Gahm. It has a large database of existing remotes, meaning you may not have to teach your HP48 your specific remote if it is already supported. However it also have the ability to learn new codes. See the best programs list (later in the FAQ) for the specific URL. 4.13. Can the HP48 be used as a DTMF phone dialer? To make phone dialing tones, you need to produce two simultaneous tones. The tones used to dial phones are known as DTMF (dual tone multi frequency) tones, which consist of two tones at the same time. The speaker in the HP48 is not capable of supporting the DTMF tones because it can only make a single tone at a time. The best the HP48 can do is switch very quickly between one frequency and another. Some attempts have been made in machine language to support DTMF, however they have been unsuccessful. Therefore, you cannot use the HP48 as a phone dialer. 4.14. How can I run a program on warmstarts and/or power-up? You can use some of the utilities available on the Goodies Disks (see Appendix E.5 on where to obtain these): o AUTOBOOT (GD #7) warmstarts every power-up o AUTOEXEC (GD #10) Runs 'GO' every power-up o AUTOPORT (GD #7) Runs &:AUTOEXEC every warmstart o AUTOSTRT (GD #7) Runs AUTOEXEC every warmstart Some stack libraries come with support for AUTOEXEC or an equivalent built in (for example, the Java library supports AUTOEXEC). If one of the libraries you have installed supports such a feature, you may not need any of the utilities above. 4.15. I could speed up my HP-28S. How can I speed up my HP48? You can't, really. Unlike the HP-28S, the clock speed in the HP48 SX is hardwired to 2 MHz, and to 4MHz in the HP48 GX. Digitalis has a speed-up module available. They sell 48G's with this module added (it looks like it adds about 50DM/$30 or so to the cost). I'm not sure what it does, but I think it boosts the clock speed. Apparently it can be turned on and off as needed, at the sacrifice of shorter battery life. However, in some cases, you can speed up the HP48 by turning off the display refresh, which supposedly takes up about 11% of the CPU time. Detlef Mueller submitted a program called SPEED to comp.sources.hp48 that turns off the display refresh. Of course, since it turns the display off, it is only suitable for long non-interactive runs like calculating large integrals, compiling, etc... Look in the various HP48 archives for a copy. 4.16. What is the hidden directory and how do I access it? The hidden directory is a subdirectory of the HOME directory. It is created on startup, and it contains variables with your alarms and user key configurations. You can use the hidden directory to store whatever you want, however you CAN NOT ORDER the contents of this directory, as this causes memory loss. The name of the hidden directory is a null character, ''. The only way to get a null character is to use a syseval. You can use the following program to access the hidden directory: << HOME (changes to home dir) #15777h (syseval to get null character) SYSEVAL (returns '' to stack) EVAL >> (changes to hidden dir) To exit the hidden directory, use HOME or UPDIR. This will return you to the HOME directory. Also, by putting the null character as a part of your HOME custom directory, you can switch right into the directory by pressing the softkey. Note: The SysRPL command NULLID returns a null character to the stack; it is the same as doing #15777h SYSEVAL. 4.17. How can I recall one object from a memory archive? There is a little-known method of recalling objects from within archives. Just make a list representing the PATH to the object, and tag the list with the port number. Then hit RCL or EVAL. For example, if your archive in port 1 is called BKUP, and it contains can run the game directly (without having a separate copy of REVERSI stored anywhere!) by: Or, you can RCL instead of EVAL, and it will be pushed onto the stack. o This method only works in ports 0 and 1 in a GX. It works on any port in the SX. o This method works with directory objects stored as backup objects, as well as with the results of the ARCHIVE command, because they are both really the same thing. 4.18. Are there any key combinations that aren't in the manual? Yes, on the G/GX there are a few keys that aren't mentionned. They are: o [right-shift] [down-arrow] = Review menu keys o [right-shift] [right-arrow] = Kermit server mode [Right-shift] [View] is hidden in Appendix G (Operation Index) of the User's Guide [Edition 4] (which comes with the calc), among the several entries for the word VIEW. AUR [Edition 1] (in chapter 3, Command Reference, under SERVER) gives the alternate keys [right-shift] [cursor right] (but of course AUR doesn't come with the calc). This alternative was left out of Appendix G of the User's Guide. Donnelly's HP48 Handbook [2nd Ed.] even lists it first! 4.19. How do I find out about commands not in the GX manual? Besides purchasing the Advanced User's Reference Manual (AUR), you can look in Appendix G of the G/GX User's Guide, which briefly summarizes every command available in the G/GX, including all the commands not mentioned anywhere else in the User's Guide. Often even the brief description given in this Appendix is sufficient for you to use the command (and to know it exists!). Some notes on omissions, however: o VERSION and _ (attach unit) are missing in Edition 4. o SUB works with arrays in the G/GX, but this is not in the HP manuals, nor in Donnelly's HP48 Handbook 2nd Ed 6/93. You can specify any two corners of a rectangular sub-matrix (like with GET), and it extracts the sub-matrix. Also works with vectors. 4.20. How can one delete (or purge) an entire directory? o To purge a subdirectory and all that it contains, type in the name in single quotes, then PGDIR. o To purge all variables in the current directory, but not the directory itself, type CLVAR. Note that with CLVAR, if the current directory contains a non-empty subdirectory, an error occurs at that point, and no subsequent variables are purged. 4.21. How does binary wordsize affect my calculations? Some of the following (but not all) is in the User's Guide, under Binary Arithmetic and Number Bases (Chapter 15 of G/GX). The system flags contain a segment which specifies a binary word size. This word size limits how many low-order bits of a binary value are displayed on the stack, and equally determines how many low- order bits of the arguments and results of binary arithmetic/logical/shift operations are used. Curiously, the binary word size has no effect on entering values into the command line - what you originally enter is displayed in truncated form on the stack, but when you view it again in the command line (which temporarily reverts back to STD numeric display and 64-bit wordsize) you will find the complete value as entered is still intact. As soon as you begin using functions on that value, however, the arguments to binary functions get truncated to the current wordsize before the functions are executed, and then the final result of the function gets truncated again. You can recall the current wordsize using RCWS and set the wordsize using STWS. STWS accepts a real number argument in the range 1-64 (out of range values get adjusted to either 1 or 64), and it also accepts a binary argument, in which case the absolute value of the low-order 20 bits is used (just in case you wondered why #1048576d STWS RCWS gives an answer of 1). Don't try adjusting the binary wordsize in the hope of saving memory by using shorter values; every user binary integer (type 10) produced by User RPL occupies 13 bytes, no matter what the current wordsize; the HP48 just sets the leading bits to zero when displaying on the stack or performing calculations. 4.22. Can I add my own equations to HP's Equation Library? No, the Equation Library is in ROM, and can't be written to. There are several programs which allow you to create your own equation library such as EQBrowser, EQ Lib, Equation Manager, and xMGR.LIB. All of these programs can be found at . 5. Questions about Math, Plotting, and Equations 5.1. Why does (1/3)*3 equal 0.999999999999? This is due to the way numbers are typically represented by computers and calculators. There are infinitely many numbers, like `1/3' and `pi', that cannot be exactly represented internally (their decimal representations go on forever, and often cannot even be represented as a fraction, as in the example of `pi'). As a result, any calculations that use these numbers are bound to be off. 5.2. Why does my HP say that 0 to the power of 0 equals 1? Some claim that 0^0 is defined as 1, some claim it is indeterminate. The HP mathematicians decided to use the definition. Here is some more concrete info shamelessly lifted from the Sci.Math-FAQ: Question: What is 0^0 ? Answer: According to some Calculus textbooks, 0^0 is an indeterminate form. When evaluating a limit of the form 0^0, then you need to know that limits of that form are called indeterminate forms, and that you need to use a special technique such as L'Hopital's rule to evaluate them. Otherwise, 0^0=1 seems to be the most useful choice for 0^0. This convention allows us to extend definitions in different areas of mathematics that otherwise would require treating 0 as a special case. Notice that 0^0 is a discontinuity of the function x^y. Rotando & Korn show that if f and g are real functions that vanish at the origin and are analytic at 0 (infinitely differentiable is not sufficient), then f(x)^g(x) approaches 1 as x approaches 0 from the right. Patashnik): Some textbooks leave the quantity 0^0 undefined, because the functions x^0 and 0^x have different limiting values when x decreases to 0. But this is a mistake. We must define: x^0 = 1 for all x, If the binomial theorem is to be valid when x=0, y=0, and/or x=-y. The theorem is too important to be arbitrarily restricted! By contrast, the function 0^x is quite unimportant. Published by Addison-Wesley, 2nd printing Dec, 1988. H. E. Vaughan, The expression '0^0', Mathematics Teacher 63 (1970), pp.111-112. Louis M. Rotando & Henry Korn, The Indeterminate Form 0^0, Mathematics Magazine, Vol. 50, No. 1 (January 1977), pp. 41-42. L.J. Paige, A note on indeterminate forms, American Mathematical Monthly, 61 (1954), 189-190; reprinted in the Mathematical Association of America's 1969 volume, Selected Papers on Calculus, pp. 210-211. 5.3. What is RPN? mathematical expressions could be specified without parentheses by placing the operators before (Polish Notation) or after (Reverse Polish Notation) the operands. For example, the expression: (4 + 5) * 6 Could be expressed in RPN as: 4 5 + 6 * 6 4 5 + * Polish Notation is also known as prefix notation and Reverse Polish Notation (RPN) is also known as postfix notation. 5.4. Why did HP use RPN in their calculators? In the years that followed Lukasiewicz's book, computer scientists realized that RPN or postfix notation was very efficient for computer math. As a postfix expression is scanned from left to right, operands are simply placed into a last-in, first-out (LIFO) stack and operators may be immediately applied to the operands at the bottom of the stack. By contrast, expressions with parentheses and precedence (infix notation) require that operators be delayed until some later point. Thus, the compilers on on almost all modern computers converted statements to RPN for execution. (In fact, some computer manufacturers designed their computers around postfix notation.) At the time that the HP-35 was introduced, other pocket calculators typically used a partial algebraic model. That meant they could evaluate trivial expressions like 4+5 but couldn't handle anything that involved parentheses or algebraic precedence. The technology of the time didn't allow for full algebraic compilers in pocket calculators. RPN allowed HP to produce a pocket calculator that could evaluate arbitrary expressions using the available technology. For many, learning a new style of entry was a small price to pay to be able to evaluate arbitrary expressions on a calculator. Once the technology to produce algebraic compilers could fit into a pocket calculator, most RPN users had decided that RPN was more efficient and consistent for the user as well as for the calculator. Also, because subexpressions are evaluated as they are entered, entry errors are more obvious with RPN. Another advantage to RPN is consistency between machines. Early algebraic models had differing limits of the complexity of the expressions they could evaluate. For example, TI catalogs from the late 70's listed how many levels of parentheses and pending operations each model could handle. Even today if you begin to use an algebraic calculator, you need to determine just how algebraic it really is. For example, some switch to RPN for unary operators (ie 5 SIN rather than SIN(5)) and some can't directly enter an expression like: 4+5 ----- 6+7 5.5. Is there an alternative to calculating in RPN? Many people just can't get used to the interaction with the stack to do calculations. A simple alternative is to place your equation in tic marks like '8+10*3' and to use the EVAL as an equals key. This way you can enter numbers just as you would write them on paper. 5.6. Why do I get unexpected values when I add temperatures? Example: I add two temperatures like 34 deg.F and 11 deg.F, and I get 504.67 deg.F. Why don't I get 45 deg.F? This occurs with the S/SX only. This behaviour changed in the G/GX. With the G/GX, adding 34 deg.F and 11 deg.F will give 45 deg.F using TINC and TDELTA. However, the G/GX will only add or subtract temperatures if the units are the same; it is now an error if they are not. If the units attached to the number consists only of a temperature and nothing else, operations are done using an absolute temperature scale (relative to absolute zero). If the units consists of a temperature and something else, such as degrees/minute, the operation will not be done using an absolute temperature scale. It also does not make any physical sense to add two temperatures. You can't add a cup of water at 20 degrees C to a cup of water at 30 degrees C and end up with two cups of water at 50 degrees C. 5.7. How can I add my own units? What's the 1_? unit for? Note: Some later editions of the G/GX series manuals have some similar information on this subject. Another feature is the generic unit, 1_?. It seems to be intended as a generic unit, to allow you to make new units not based upon any of the built-in ones. You could use it to create a conversion utility for currencies or bits and bytes. Before you create either, check the FTP sites to see what others have done in this regard. o User units may be defined by creating a variable of any name (the new unit name), into which you store its definition in terms of other units, e.g. 2_mph 'stroll' STO; you can also use other user units in a definition, e.g. 3_stroll 'run' STO. o You can then use the new unit name(s) in any custom or temporary menu, just the same as any other unit in the built-in Units Catalog. For example, { 1_stroll 1_run ... } TMENU Here's an example. Convert this using ASC-> and save it as 'sample'. 69A20FF78E000000005046F6E6574750ADA209C2A2C2A2070000F368B01B2130 E20005046F6A756E650ADA20339201000000000000210C2A20F000046F6E6574 768B01B2130640005086F6D6562750ADA20339200000000000000510C2A20F00 0046F6E65747C2A20B0000D696E686B0168B01B2130B5000303435453047A204 7A20C2A20F000046F6E65747ADA209C2A2C2A20F000046F6E6574768B01B2130 B213047A20C2A20F000046F6A756E6ADA209C2A2C2A20F000046F6A756E668B0 1B2130B213047A20C2A20F000086F6D65627ADA209C2A2C2A20F000086F6D656 2768B01B2130B2130B2130F0DA This is a sample directory with a custom menu. Enter the directory and press the CST key. Here you will see three units (truncated to fit the softkeys): donut, dozen, and homer. A dozen is defined as 12_donut, and a homer is a rate of 1.5_donut/min (not part of the SI system). These units may take SI prefixes described on page 10-5 of the User's Guide, so you may convert the value of 3_MW*h/kdonut into units of erg/mdozen using CONVERT, for example. The items in the CST menu have the usual abilities of unit menu objects as described on pages 10-2 and 10-3 of the User's Guide. These units can be used for math operations described on page 10-7 of the User's Guide, such as adding 2_donut to 1_dozen. Example: At your power plant, you have four control room operators who have a combined consumption rate of 2.28 homers. How many donuts will they use in 5 minutes and 17 seconds? o Enter the rate. 2.28 [homer] o Enter the time. Right-shift UNITS [TIME] 5 [min] 17 [s] + o Multiply the time by the rate (*) o Convert to dozens: CST Left-shift [dozen] o The answer is a little over 1.5 dozen. 5.8. I want `pi' to be a numeric value, not a symbol. You are using Numeric Constants Mode. To turn this mode on or off: SX: Type -2 SF. This turns the numeric constants mode on. To turn it off, type -2 CF. GX: Go to the MODES menu (press green/right-shift MODES). Hit the key for FLAG submenu. Toggle the second flag Constant -> symb to turn on and off. 5.9. What tricks are there for manipulating matrices? SX: You can build up a matrix by rows using GS+. You can take a matrix apart by rows using GS- These two commands (GS is Sigma (Greek E)) add and subtract rows from the SigmaDAT Statistics matrix. GS+ takes a vector row and adds it to SigmaDAT, and GS- takes the bottom row away from SigmaDAT. GS+ is accessible from the STAT menu with its own softkey. GS- can be obtained by pressing left-shift /GS+, or by typing it in at the command line. GX: The GX has many matrix functions built in. See Appendix B-1. 5.10. Can I make my HP graph any faster? Try lowering the plotting resolution by typing #2 RES. You can use larger values for faster speed at the expense of number of points plotted. In the GX Plotting Options Menu this setting is known as the STEP rate. Alternatively, if you have a G series machine, you could try SpeedGraph, a fast assembly language plotter replacement. See for a copy. 5.11. How do I plot inequalities? In the user's manual, inequalities are referred to as truth plots. They are defined as expressions that return true (any nonzero real number) or false (0) results. In a truth plot, a pixel is turned on if the expression is true, it's unchanged if the expression is false. For example to plot the simple inequality 'X>0' you could do: TRUTH -20 20 XRNG -10 10 XRNG ERASE DRAX DRAW For more complicated examples see your manual, or on a G/GX you can type TEACH to look at some of the built-in examples. It may also be useful to plot the lines defining the outline true region. This is easily done by changing the plotting style to FUNCTION or CONIC and plotting again, taking care not to erase any previous plot. Note that unless otherwise specified, every pixel in the display must be evaluated. As such, truth plots can be very slow. If you have a general idea on which values are going to return true, you can speed up plotting by specifying a smaller x and y plotting range. You can do this by setting the LO and HI input forms on a G/GX, which can be different than the actual display range. If you are plotting the area between two equations, you speed up plotting dramatically by avoiding a TRUTH plot entirely. Store the two equations as the first two items in the current EQ list. Using NXEQ in the FCN menu will rotate the list as desired to plot both functions. Then the area between them can filled in very quickly using the SHADE key of the FCN menu (in the PICTURE environment). Another hint for speeding up Truth plots is to set the resolution, say to 2 pixels or more, which also results in a different shading pattern. The resolution can be set with the RES command. 5.12. How do I take the logarithm of a base other than 10 or e? To take the log of a number other than base 10 or e, say log x base y, you use the formula: ln x - where ln is natural log (log works too) ln y A quick program to do it would be: << SWAP LN SWAP LN / >> With the input of: 2: x 1: y 5.13. How do I solve quadratic equations? The QUAD command is designed to solve expressions at degree up to two. One would expect the result of the simple expression 5=x/(1+x) to be x=-5/4. But using the QUAD command, the HP gives the complex solution (0.5, 2.17944947177) i.e. the principal value (with flag 1 set). What is the reason for this? The QUAD command is designed to solve quadratic equations. If the equation is not of the form: a*x^2 + b*x + c = d*x^2 + d*x + e The HP48 calculates a quadratic taylor series expansion which is then solved like a normal quadratic equation. The HP does the same when the equation is of a higher order. In the example above, the equation x/(1+x)-5=0 has the expansion: -x^2 + x - 5 = 0, Which has two complex conjugate solutions. However, if you multiply the equation by (1+x)/, you get: x = 5 * (1+x) Which can be solved directly with QUAD. If the equation contains the variable only once, its the best way to use the ISOL command instead. 5.14. Why do I get a complex answers for roots of negative numbers? This typically occurs for the (2n+1) roots of negative numbers, where n is a positive integer. For example, to calculate the fifth root of -3125 you can enter: -3125^0.2 The result is the complex number (4.04508497187, 2.93892626146) or in DEG mode (4.99999999999, >36). The reason for this answer is that -3125^(1/5) has five different answers - arranged in a pentagon in the complex plane. In general, y^(1/x) has x different answers (y^x with x irrational has an infinite set of answers forming a circle on the complex plane). Since 180/5 = 36 [degrees], this is the correct principal 5th root of the negative argument in the complex plane; the HP48, unlike older calculators, does not turn complex mode on or off, so all analytic functions in the HP48 always accept complex arguments, and always return valid complex answers if suitable. To calculate the desired solution, you have to use the right-shifted V-key with input like this: 2: -3125 1: 5 Or you can use 'XROOT(5,-3125)' since XROOT is defined to both accept and return real values only. 5.15. How do I solve polynomials? Another fast way to solve quadratic equations (or polynominals of higher degree) is by using the PROOT command. Place a vector with the coefficients of the polynominal on the stack. For example: x^3 - 9*x^2 + 26*x - 24 Would look like: [1 -9 26 -24] Then press left shift, SOLVE (key 7), POLY (key C), PROOT (key A). The result is [2 3 4], which are the roots of the equation. 5.16. How can I do statistics for grouped data? Excerpt of postings from John Meyers You must replicate the individual values or you can use a weighted analysis. For weighted analysis, Joe Horn's WEIGHT2 directory which can be found on Goodies Disk 8. For weighted mean of numeric grades (or grade equivalents), with the number of credits for each course being the weight, you can use the program below. First, fill in the statistics matrix, using any of the built-in statistics applications, entering each numeric grade equivalent in column 1, and the corresponding number of credits in column 2. Then press the key for the program below, which returns three results: o Weighted mean of column 1, using weights from column 2 o Standard deviation (estimated from samples entered) o Standard deviation (of population actually entered) If you select an X-Column and/or a Y-Column different from the defaults (columns 1 and 2), then the results reflect the values in the X-Column using weights from the Y-Column. The program below is a slight improvement upon WEIGHT3, in that it no longer requires SigmaPAR to exist (the standard default columns are assumed if not). Credits go to Bob Wheeler for coming up with the algorithm, and to John Meyers for implementing the following program: %%HP: T(3); @ -> is right-arrow, v/ is Square Root, GS is Sigma @ WMS - Weighted Mean and Standard Deviation, HP48G/GX @ Stack diagram: ( SigmaDAT and SigmaPAR ) --> Mean, SDev(S), SDev(P) @ If SigmaPAR does not exist, then @ Col 1 (XCOL) is value and Col 2 (YCOL) is weight, by default << 'GSPAR' DUP VTYPE 0 < { DROP 1 2 } { RCL 1 2 SUB EVAL } IFTE 0 0 DUP2 -> x f w d m v << RCLGS x COL- SWAP DROP ARRY-> EVAL ->LIST RCLGS f COL- SWAP DROP ARRY-> EVAL ->LIST 2 << DUP2 'w' STO+ m - * DUP 'd' STO w / 'm' STO+ m - d * 'v' STO+ >> DOLIST m v w DUP2 1 - / v/ ROT ROT / v/ >> >>^ If all you want is the weighted mean, and not the standard deviations, then you can dispense with all of the above, and just use a shortcut posted in GD7/MATH/WEIGHT.DOC by Joe Horn (basically, it is Sum(X*Y)/Sum(Y), where Y is the weight for X). If you would rather replicate data points, then read on - however, if the weights associated with your data points are either very large or non-integers, then the following will be either very cumbersome or not possible, respectively. Press left-shift STAT DATA (on G/GX) to get to the menu containing the Sigma+ Sigma- and ClearSigma commands. Press ClearSigma to remove the old SigmaDAT. The first data must be entered as a vector: For example [2 4] and pressing Sigma+. Now all other data pairs are entered without the brackets just as a pair separated by a space: e.g. 4 3 and pressing Sigma+ and so on. Sigma- in the HP48 does not accept data; rather, it simply removes the last-entered data point/row, popping it back onto the stack for you (the result is always one vector or scalar). If every point is removed, the statistics matrix is also deleted. Now we can understand Joe Horn's program which accepts a data point/row, in whatever form the HP48 is prepared to accept it (single number, vector, or group of numbers), plus a frequency (integer only) on stack level 1, and then appends the data point/row the given number of times. Note that you must always supply a frequency, even if it is 1, and that any meaningless frequency less than 1 will be treated as 1. << -55 CF 1 SWAP START GS+ LASTARG NEXT DROP >> Obviously, GS+ and GS- represent the Sigma+ and Sigma- commands. Example: If the Statistics Matrix (SigmaDAT) already has two columns, and if we want to enter the new data pair [ 3 4 ] five times, we can simply type 3 4 5 and then press the key for the above program (don't forget to use a data vector for the very first data row). For large frequencies, as noted, you will find this to be slow, not to mention the memory required for the multiple matrix rows; however, once you have literally entered every single data row, you can then do all the regression analysis and plotting you want, without the need for additional programming. 5.17. How do I generate a function table? An easy and versatile way is to use the powerful list processing capabilities of the HP48. Generate a list with the x values, then perform the operations on that list. For example: { .1 2 2.5 5 123.4 } SQ will output { .01 4 6.25 25 15227.56 } There are also several programs/libs to create a function table. Take a look at and search for MathTools by Jack Levy or Table by Diego Berge. If you are low on memory or want a customizeable program you can use a tiny User-RPL program. Here are two suggestions with different forms of the output. All programs use the SEQ command, which is the key command here! (for further information read the manual). Input is for example: 5: 'SQ(x)' 4: x 3: 11 (start) 2: 25 (end) 1: 1 (step) The first mini program will output a matrix with the calculated values %%HP: T(3)A(R)F(.); << SEQ OBJ-> COL-> 1 COL-> >> The second one will give x and f(x) in an array %%HP: T(3)A(R)F(.); << 4 DUPN 4 PICK 4 ROLLD SEQ OBJ-> COL-> 6 ROLLD SEQ OBJ-> COL-> 2 COL-> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNjNWwuhzXOws+qC7EQLZHACgs9YAG5CGO6sUmecMjk4qP+l/CkgAoL9V crpElfCWlm9CNDPlXHAD521o =y91b -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- === Subject: Problems whith 768 kb I was upgraded 3 Gs to 768 y in these calculators y recibe errors with te interrupts of keyboard, And ÁTHE 48! have no error ion the TEST Àwhat happenened? Àwhy? anyone hads similar problems in the recent time? and another memory configurations? Actually mi G haves 384 kb and no problem. (sorry english is not my native lenguaje) http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: WinHp problems Hi! I have the WinHp texteditor and if i use the tgv format and insert a picture (grob) in then it works,but i can't remove it. I've tried to remove text with the cut button and it worked, but if i inserted a grob then it failed to remove. Tell me if it is a bug or i did something wrong. Send answer to my letterbox ,please ,because i rarely read this maillist. === Subject: Re: Problems whith 768 kb I'm not an expert in such things, but Raymond Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germany.net === Subject: simple question 29C21EEE5E625BCFCA3C5C94 I just switched from Texas Instruments (82) to Hewlett Packard (48G). It was so easy to do simple functions like addition and subtraction on the TI, but on HP I can't figure it out. Do I have to press (left shift) (enter) every time I want to do a simple problem like 2+2. Every time I press a simple function it says Error: Too Few Arguments. PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Email me back at: igore290@hotmail.com P.S.- I bought my HP48G without a manual. So I am trying to wing it. 29C21EEE5E625BCFCA3C5C94     I just switched from Texas Instruments (82) to Hewlett Packard (48G).    It was so easy to do simple functions like addition and subtraction on the TI, but on HP I can't figure it out.  Do I have to press (left shift) (enter) every time I want to do a simple problem like 2+2.

    Every time I press a simple function it says Error: Too Few Arguments.            ;   PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Email me back at:      igore290@hotmail.com

P.S.- I bought my HP48G without a manual.  So I am trying to wing it. 29C21EEE5E625BCFCA3C5C94-- === Subject: Re: simple question > subtraction on the TI, but on HP I can't figure it out. Do I have to > press (left shift) (enter) every time I want to do a simple problem > like 2+2. on previous HP calculatros, one did have to press many shift keys or even punch in to the calculator the exact functions required. for example, the HP28S, I am not sure of exact number. it had a ridiculous function system where by one had to enter various shift functions to take for example a logorithm of a sine function. one had to shift between different menu modes. on my casio that I bought back in early eighties, one could take the logorithm of a sine directly without shifting menu modes. After trying a friend's 28S, I felt that HP was not for me, being too complicated for easy computation. === Subject: Re: simple question A typical complaint from people who just don't take the time to learn how the HP works. Anyone who has used BOTH types for any amount of time quickly realizes that the HP RPL system uses LESS keystrokes than an algebraic calculator. You must use parenthesis with the algebraic types and you NEVER need them with RPL. BUT - you must invest about 1 hour to learn the system. That is too much for some to give. Brian > subtraction on the TI, but on HP I can't figure it out. Do I have to >> press (left shift) (enter) every time I want to do a simple problem >> like 2+2. on previous HP calculatros, one did have to press many shift keys >or even punch in to the calculator the exact functions required. >for example, the HP28S, I am not sure of exact number. it had a >ridiculous function system where by one had to enter various shift >functions to take for example a logorithm of a sine function. >one had to shift between different menu modes. on my casio that I >bought back in early eighties, one could take the logorithm of a sine >directly without shifting menu modes. After trying a friend's 28S, >I felt that HP was not for me, being too complicated for easy >computation. === Subject: Re: simple question boundary=----=_NextPart_000_003B_01BE1966.410ECC40 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BE1966.410ECC40 It takes a little getting use to it but once you get the hang of it you = will never go back to the old method. Also you may want to read through = the FAQ by Andre Schoorl, it has tonnes of info. By the way: 2 Enter 2 + That is the sequence for 2+2. Sound confusing but it is much better = then 2 + 2 =3D Especially for big equations. have fun Andrew <365D5B68.6E691174@azstarnet.com>... I just switched from Texas Instruments (82) to Hewlett Packard = (48G). It was so easy to do simple functions like addition and = subtraction on the TI, but on HP I can't figure it out. Do I have to = press (left shift) (enter) every time I want to do a simple problem like = 2+2.=20 Every time I press a simple function it says Error: Too Few = Arguments. PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!=20 =20 Email me back at: igore290@hotmail.com=20 P.S.- I bought my HP48G without a manual. So I am trying to wing = it.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BE1966.410ECC40 http-equiv=3DContent-Type>

It takes a little getting use to it = but once you=20 get the hang of it you will never go back to the old method.  Also = you may=20 want to read through the FAQ by Andre Schoorl, it has tonnes of=20 info.
 
By the way:
 
2
Enter
2
+
 
That is the sequence for 2+2.  Sound confusing = but it is=20 much better then 2 + 2 =3D Especially for big equations.
 
have fun
Andrew
 
Kids <1frank@azstarnet.com> = message <365D5B68.6E691174@azstarn= et.com>...
   =20 I just switched from Texas Instruments (82) to = Hewlett Packard=20 (48G).    It was so easy to do simple functions like = addition=20 and subtraction on the TI, but on HP I can't figure it out.  Do = I have=20 to press (left shift) (enter) every time I want to do a simple = problem like=20 2+2.=20

    Every time I press a simple = function it=20 says "Error: Too Few=20 = Arguments."         &nb= sp;   =20 PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!
 =20

Email me back at:     =20 igore290@hotmail.com=20

P.S.- I bought my HP48G without a manual.  = So I am=20 trying to wing it.

------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BE1966.410ECC40-- === Subject: Re: simple question boundary=----=_NextPart_000_0044_01BE198D.42397EE0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BE198D.42397EE0 I just switched from Texas Instruments (82) to Hewlett Packard = (48G). It was so easy to do simple functions like addition and = subtraction on the TI, but on HP I can't figure it out. Do I have to = press (left shift) (enter) every time I want to do a simple problem like = 2+2.=20 Every time I press a simple function it says Error: Too Few = Arguments. PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!=20 =20 Email me back at: igore290@hotmail.com=20 P.S.- I bought my HP48G without a manual. So I am trying to wing = it. =20 ????? Hit the [ ' ] button instead of LeftShift/Enter, or use RPL-technique : [2] [ENTER] [2] [ENTER] [+ ]=20 Bye ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BE198D.42397EE0 http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
 
switched from=20 Texas Instruments (82) to Hewlett Packard (48G).    = It was so=20 easy to do simple functions like addition and subtraction on the TI, = but on=20 HP I can't figure it out.  Do I have to press (left shift) = (enter)=20 every time I want to do a simple problem like 2+2.=20

    Every time I press a simple = function it=20 says "Error: Too Few=20 = Arguments."         &nb= sp;   =20 PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!
 =20

Email me back at:     =20 igore290@hotmail.com=20

P.S.- I bought my HP48G without a manual.  = So I am=20 trying to wing it. 

?????

  Hit the [ ' ] = button instead of=20 LeftShift/Enter,

  or use = RPL-technique : [2]=20 [ENTER]  [2] [ENTER] [+ ]

Bye

------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BE198D.42397EE0-- === Subject: Re: simple question Or the eternal and universal answer: RTFM Jean-Yves Ps: RTFM = Read The Fucking Manual I just switched from Texas Instruments (82) to Hewlett Packard (48G). It was so easy to do simple functions like addition and subtraction on the TI, but on HP I can't figure it out. Do I have to press (left shift) (enter) every time I want to do a simple problem like 2+2. Every time I press a simple function it says Error: Too Few Arguments. PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Email me back at: igore290@hotmail.com P.S.- I bought my HP48G without a manual. So I am trying to wing it. ????? Hit the [ ' ] button instead of LeftShift/Enter, or use RPL-technique : [2] [ENTER] [2] [ENTER] [+ ] Bye === Subject: Re: simple question Jean-Yves a .8ecrit: > Or the eternal and universal answer: > RTFM> Sauf que l'auteur a indiqu.8e au d.8ebut: P.S.- I bought my HP48G without a manual. Ce qui veut dire: P.S. - J'ai achet.8e ma HP48G sans manuel. DDBR Jean-Yves.. allons! Pas d'alcool avant les news!! :o) DDBR = Don't Drink Before Replying Au fait, tu as une prochaine version pour HP-Asm? Ce serait sympa de pouvoir .8ecrire: D0+x plut.99t que Dn=Dn+x Qu'en penses-tu? :o) (reste cool, moi faire blague toi, toi rire avec moi !) -Gilb- 00 E2 22 76 58 1F 72 BA EA 94 78 F3 A2 63 E0 94 === Subject: Re: simple question --- With best wishes from: John H Meyers ::o just curious... do you type up these responses for each question... or do you pull them out of a library that you've built up over the years...??? eh? === Subject: Re: simple question Ok, I'll risk again of being enormously flamed but, >Or the eternal and universal answer: >RTFM Or the basics of usenet postings -> Read The Whole Message Before Posting a Followup ! >Jean-Yves Ps: RTFM = Read The Fucking Manual I just switched from Texas Instruments (82) to Hewlett Packard (48G). >It was so easy to do simple functions like addition and subtraction on the >TI, but on HP I can't figure it out. Do I have to press (left shift) >(enter) every time I want to do a simple problem like 2+2. > Every time I press a simple function it says Error: Too Few Arguments. >PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Email me back at: igore290@hotmail.com >P.S.- I bought my HP48G without a manual. So I am trying to wing it. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Here !!! And no, I won't discuss what could mean having a HP48 without manuals. Now, of me go to sauna to steam off ... -- Mario Mikocevic (Mozgy) lfsck error: FUBR ! === Subject: Re: simple question BBC97107ACFD2E0E08A50C54 Group: I sent a what is RPN response to the author. > I just switched from Texas Instruments (82) to Hewlett Packard > (48G). It was so easy to do simple functions like addition and > subtraction on the TI, but on HP I can't figure it out. Do I have to > press (left shift) (enter) every time I want to do a simple problem > like 2+2. Every time I press a simple function it says Error: Too Few > Arguments. PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!! > Email me back at: igore290@hotmail.com P.S.- I bought my HP48G without a manual. So I am trying to wing it. BBC97107ACFD2E0E08A50C54 Group:  I sent a what is RPN response to the author.
     I just switched from Texas Instruments (82) to Hewlett Packard (48G).    It was so easy to do simple functions like addition and subtraction on the TI, but on HP I can't figure it out.  Do I have to press (left shift) (enter) every time I want to do a simple problem like 2+2.

    Every time I press a simple function it says Error: Too Few Arguments.            ;   PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Email me back at:      igore290@hotmail.com

P.S.- I bought my HP48G without a manual.  So I am trying to wing it.

BBC97107ACFD2E0E08A50C54-- === Subject: An HP48 primer (simple question) Here is a very quick course in HP48 RPN/RPL entry and calculation: > I bought my HP48G without a manual. I toured some great cities without a guidebook, but I think I might have missed something :) > Every time I press a simple function it says Error: Too Few Arguments. > Do I have to press (left shift) (enter) [Equation Writer] > every time I want to do a simple problem like 2+2 ? Fortunately not! Even with my Casio and TI calculators, however, I was never able to guess how to use any advanced features without reading the instructions, so I don't think that HP is at all unique in this respect. If it weren't for TI, which started the craze for algebraic-entry a long while back, the system used by HP, which actually pre-dates the algebraic-entry era, might seem much more natural today. Even though algebraic-entry calculators are now more common, they actually do things in a convoluted manner; for example, when you press their keys 2 + 3 = it so happens that at the moment that you press the + key, there is nothing yet available to add; what the calculator therefore has to do is to wait until later, when you press either another function key or the = key, to finally remember that you wanted to add something, and then to perform the addition later, when all the numbers which you want to add finally become available. You also generally never get to see the intermediate results of things that are either in parentheses or are not the very last, final result; once a calculation has been performed, all of its inputs and results (except possibly the very last result) are also usually forgotten, and are not conveniently available for re-use. Despite the supposedly more intuitive nature of algebraic entry calculators, it is also a fact that various brands, and even various models of the same brand, are often highly inconsistent in how their functions work (e.g. press 5 and then square-root vs. press square-root and then 5); a very simple calculator usually displays a result of 30 after 2 + 3 * 6 = whereas a calc obeying operator heierarchy usually gets a result of 20 for the same expression, etc. (and don't even ask about what various percent keys do :) The approach traditionally used by HP scientific and engineering calculators is much simpler, is completely unambiguous and always consistent, and is in fact the same fundamental way in which even the earliest calculators worked: First you make available the numbers you want to work with, and then you press the button (or pull the lever, on old mechanical calculators) to immediately add them (or subtract, or multiply, or divide, etc.), without having to remember anything that actually can not be done now, but would have to be put off for future action. Every arithmetic operation (or any other mathematical function) therefore acts *immediately* upon arguments which are already visible, on your stack; the results of those computations then remain on the same stack, and you can continue to do further operations upon them. Whenever you have new values to introduce, you first enter them into the stack, and then invoke whatever operations you want to perform with them. In the HP48, new keyboard entries automatically start a simple text editor, which appears below the stack; you can actually type as many different values as you want in one typing session, with spaces (or newline characters) between them; as soon as you press either the ENTER key or any function key (e.g. +), the editor terminates, places all the typed-in values on the stack, and then performs the function whose key was pressed. The ENTER key by itself just puts values on the stack, without invoking any other function; in most cases where you already know of some operation that you want to perform, you need not bother pressing ENTER at all; for example, just type 2 [SPC] 3 + to add 2 and 3; to add something else to the previous result, just type, for example, 4 + Some keys, e.g. ['], automatically put this editor into algebraic mode, in which many function keys just enter their name into the editor, possibly with parentheses to leave room for any arguments to the function, e.g. COS(); this mode is used to enter algebraic expressions, which is always an option you can use if you want to calculate anything using the same syntax as many other algebraic calculators. An algebraic expression is put onto the stack after ENTER is pressed, but it can be evaluated to produce a numeric result via the EVAL key (or ->NUM function, above the same key), which you can even press *instead*of*ENTER* to immediately put the calculated value onto the stack, instead of the expression itself; e.g., press '2+3 ENTER to put the expression '2+3' on the stack, or '2+3 EVAL to put the answer 5 on the stack; please be sure to press the ['] key first when doing these examples. Some other keys automatically put this editor into program entry mode, in which all keys are used for editing text, and only the ENTER key can conclude the editing and put results on the stack; naturally, this mode is used whenever editing programs. The words ALG and/or PRG appear at the top right of the display when the Algebraic and/or Program-entry editing modes are in effect; the right-shift ENTRY keyboard function can be used to induce certain entry modes to appear (if PRG was not yet displayed then PRG mode is first set; otherwise ALG is toggled on or off). A few symbol keys always set or change the editing modes: ['] and [_] always turn on ALG mode. [<< >>] and [{ }] and [::] always turn on PRG mode Anything that is not valid within an algebraic expression turns off ALG mode. You may leave spaces between words in an expression; the spaces will be ignored. A few examples of other kinds of objects you can enter: (3 4) A complex number, which then displays as (3,4) (5 @53) A complex number in polar form, where by @ we mean the symbol produced by right-shift SPC [ 3 4 ] A vector [[1 2 3] 4 5 6 7 8 9] A matrix, which then appears on the stack as: [[ 1 2 3 ] [ 4 5 6 ] [ 7 8 9 ]] #8C5Fh A binary integer, shown in hexadecimal { 1 2 3 4 5 } A list, which can contain any set of objects (even more lists) << ... >> A program. Want to store something more permanently? (any object on stack) 'newname' STO In the VAR menu: left-shift [menukey] Stores from stack into memory item right-shift [menukey] Recalls from memory item to stack ['] [menukey] left-shift PURGE Deletes memory item So much for a cursory introduction to direct calculation on the HP48. If you want to know more of what's packed into the nearly 600 pages of the G-series User's Guide, the best thing to do might be to invest in purchasing the real thing, which may possibly be available at reasonable cost from Calculating Edge and/or DaVinci (the standard package will include both the original HP User's Guide and the Quick Start Guide; a complete programming manual from HP, known as the Advanced User's Reference, is an optional extra, and is considered very worthwhile if you start writing your own programs). A number of people who contribute to this newsgroup have also written their own introductory guides, to either supplement or replace the standard manuals; perhaps they will post some URLs for you. Other independent authors have also produced all sorts of books for the HP48, which you may find through searching the net or our FAQ. - You can't tell the players without a scorecard If at first you don't succeed, try to find the directions The HP48 newsgroup FAQ --- With best wishes from: John H Meyers === Subject: Programming in RPL? How do people here like programming in RPL? Is it a language you would choose to use given other alternatives or do you use it because it is what HP provided to program the HP-48? Would you use it under Windows 95 to develop symbolic math programs if a Windows version existed? RPL supposedly stands for Reverse Polish Lisp. Are any of you Lisp programmers? Would you prefer a calculator that could be programmed directly in Lisp? David Betz === Subject: Re: Programming in RPL? the 'language' used in the HP48 seems to be nearer to FORTH than to Lisp. I liked FORTH on the HP71B and the variation of it on the HP48. For me, the symbolic math capabilities are not as much important as for many other users, it's the way to program the HP48 and to develop things from inside the machine:-) Raymond Hellstern Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germany.net === Subject: Re: Programming in RPL? nearly all HP calculators from the HP clamshell models over the 2x, 3x series (including 38G)up to the 48x series use a similar kernel. They differ in the user interface. The 28C, 28S, 48 (all models) are the only models which have an RPL like user interface (and programming ability). I hope the next real HP power calculator will have RPL, too;-) Raymond Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germany.net === Subject: Re: Programming in RPL? Actually, that language was used by HP first ( I think ) on the 28 c/s. My two 28s will run most RPL programs written on my 48 perfectly. Anyone know if this language is used on any other HP machines? Brian Denley <$y11429jh@germanynet.de>... the 'language' used in the HP48 seems to be nearer to FORTH than to >Lisp. I liked FORTH on the HP71B and the variation of it on the HP48. >For me, the symbolic math capabilities are not as much important as >for many other users, it's the way to program the HP48 and to >develop things from inside the machine:-) >Raymond Hellstern Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germany.net === Subject: HP GX48 Programming is there a easy to use programm to write smale Progs for the GX48 ? thx Ersin === Subject: Re: HP GX48 Programming >is there a easy to use programm to write smale Progs for the GX48 ? thx >Ersin > Yea, it's called Inbuilt Editor and comes with a documentation inside your manual ! === Subject: Re: HP GX48 Programming >is there a easy to use programm to write smale Progs for the GX48 ? >>thx >>Ersin >Yea, it's called Inbuilt Editor and comes > with a documentation inside your manual ! Hi CrackerJack! (strange name ;-) you may look at chapter 29 in your manual. If you have a specific problem post your question here and you'll find many who will try to help you. Happy cracking :-) Peter E-Mail: karpfenteich@gmx.de _______________________________ Do you know the great Frequently Asked Questions? http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/ and the superb HP48 Software Archive? http://www.hpcalc.org to look for *old* HP48 postings see http://www.dejanews.com === Subject: program files for hp 48G Where could I find the program files for HP 48G in internet? === Subject: Re: program files for hp 48G boundary=-----B72463FD999B9306F10E3B8D This is a multi-part message in MIME format. B72463FD999B9306F10E3B8D Try http://www.hpcalc.org > Where could I find the program files for HP 48G in internet? -- Thiti Vacharasintopchai Chulalongkorn University Alumnus Graduate Student in Structural Engineering, Asian Institute of Technology, Thailand. mailto:thitiv@usa.net or mailto:sca89636@ait.ac.th B72463FD999B9306F10E3B8D name=thitiv.vcf Content-Description: Card for Thiti Vacharasintopchai filename=thitiv.vcf begin:vcard n:Vacharasintopchai;Thiti org:Asian Institute of Technology;School of Civil Engineering adr:;;Mailbox 871, P.O. Box 4;Klong Luang;Pathumthani;;Thailand version:2.1 email;internet:thitiv@usa.net title:Structural Engineering Graduate Student fn:Thiti Vacharasintopchai end:vcard B72463FD999B9306F10E3B8D-- === Subject: Re: program files for hp 48G >Where could I find the program files for HP 48G in internet? > Try www.hpcalc.org ! === Subject: universal code on hp48 If anyone has the universal code to unlock all locked datas on a hp48, please send it to leboucherf@hol.fr === Subject: Re: universal code on hp48 > If anyone has the universal code to unlock all locked datas on a hp48, > please send it to leboucherf@hol.fr > What I meant by this is that, if I have programs on my HP and if I put a password to protect them, there is a universal password if I forgot the one I put... === Subject: Re: universal code on hp48 > > If anyone has the universal code to unlock all locked datas on a hp48, > > please send it to leboucherf@hol.fr > > What I meant by this is that, if I have programs on my HP and if I put a > password to protect them, there is a universal password if I forgot the > one I put... I'm not sure exactly what it is that you did, but there is this one universal code you can do.. ON-A-F WARNING: you WILL LOSE all your programs.. but what good are they if you can't use them? -- Aaron === Subject: Re: universal code on hp48 > If anyone has the universal code to unlock all locked datas on a hp48, > please send it to leboucherf@hol.fr > Is there some code library inside your HP? Did you put a code you forgot? (a bad idea, usually) -Gilb- 00 E2 22 76 58 1F 72 BA EA 94 78 F3 A2 63 E0 94 === Subject: Re: universal code on hp48 > If anyone has the universal code to unlock all locked datas on a hp48, > please send it to ... Ask the producers of the film Sneakers whether they saved that box... BTW, this is one reason why I would not buy an electronic lock safe; the good old mechanical kind, in which you can set your own combo and be assured that there is no other, seems better to me (not to mention dead battery problems, etc.) BBTW: How do you lock data on an HP48? --- With best wishes from: John H Meyers === Subject: Re: universal code on hp48 ummm. have we ever turned your calculator on? === Subject: Showing Calculations? 2 Is there any program for showing calculations? if you type in 2+2 it will show +2 ----- 4 === Subject: Re: Showing Calculations? > Is there any program for showing calculations? > if you type in 2+2 it will show +2 4 Something above may have been lost in translation, but here is something which someone might find useful: << DUP -3 CF EVAL = >> Note that the = in the above program is an RPL *command* Given an algebraic expression as argument, this evaluates it, keeping both the original expression and the result, e.g.: '2+3' ==> '2+3=5' To separate an algebraic equation into left and right sides (the reverse of what the = command does): << EQ-> >> The above command EQ-> may be found in the PRG TYPE NXT menu. See also: Re: Viewing previous commands on a G+ 1998/10/29 An HP48 primer (simple question) 1998/11/28 --- With best wishes from: John H Meyers === Subject: Showing Calculations (New) Sorry about the last e-mail, it went a little screwed-up. Is there any program for showing calculations (see picture) begin 666 bild.bmp === Subject: Re: Showing Calculations (New) what a perfectly dumb and interesting idea for a program...!!! so if you wanted a divsion problem, displayed, it would create a GROB with all the herarchial steps, as would a multilicaiton problem...with little numbers at the top for carries... so it would expand any normal 48 equation to something that you would normally see in the margins of a 5th grade arithmatic homework assignment... is that it... (???) besides the 4 arithmatic operations, what others should be included... === Subject: Re: Showing Calculations (New) Jupp, that's it >what a perfectly dumb and interesting idea for a program...!!! >so if you wanted a divsion problem, displayed, it would create a GROB with all >the herarchial steps, as would a multilicaiton problem...with little numbers at >the top for carries... so it would expand any normal 48 equation to something that you would normally >see in the margins of a 5th grade arithmatic homework assignment... is that it... (???) besides the 4 arithmatic operations, what others should be included... >---- :: o >.---..-..-..-..-..-..-. . .-. .-. .-..-..-.. .-. >`| |'| || .` | > / / / / / | .` || | ) / > `-' `-'`-'`-' `-' `. ^ .' `--^--'`-'`-'`-'' `--^--' >Join The BabyNous Cult : The Friendly Neighborhood Cult === Subject: Re: Help with pc-hp48 link > [..]Êbut when I try to connect to the hp using file48 I get one > or two packets sent then it pops into a retry #1 message and then stops. I got that kind of stuff a few hours before I got a Low battery alert for my HP. Perhaps it looses connection because batteries can't get with the power drain.. does the screen looks less darker when it sends a packet, resulting in a light blinking of screen? -Gilb- (remove the z from my address to email me) 00 E2 22 76 58 1F 72 BA EA 94 78 F3 A2 63 E0 94 === Subject: Re: Help with pc-hp48 link > [..]Êbut when I try to connect to the hp using file48 I get one > or two packets sent then it pops into a retry #1 message and then stops. I got that kind of stuff a few hours before I got a Low battery alert for my HP. Perhaps it looses connection because batteries can't get with the power drain.. does the screen looks less darker when it sends a packet, resulting in a light blinking of screen? -Gilb- (remove the z from my address to email me) 00 E2 22 76 58 1F 72 BA EA 94 78 F3 A2 63 E0 94 === Subject: User keys affecting Set Alarm display?? I have noticed a display problem on my HP48GX rev P when using the Set Alarm.. dialogue entered via [RS]-[4], and it seems to be due to a user key assignment. Using the example from section 3.3 of the Smartkeys library documentation, I have set the [RS]-[-] key to activate alpha mode as well as enter quotes (key sequence 85.3 61.4). When I enter the Set Alarm dialogue, the screen separate lines and a prompt to Enter message or <>. With User move up and overwrite the Time heading, although I can still move into the time fields using the arrow keys and set an alarm. The screen is 'scrambled', and I have some screenshots of it in this state if anyone wants to have a look. With User mode off, there is no such problem. I have Java installed as well as Smartkeys, and the problem is independent of whether Java is active or not. Any ideas? Jeff Roulston === Subject: What's New...!!! Thanx for the 'What's New' File with the FAQ...!!! === Subject: Re: What is the cylindrical thing on my HP cable? The cylindrical thing is just like the one on the back of you computer monitor. It's basically a Ferro noise suppresser. The Technical explanation escapes me for the moment. It would be better explained by some Electrical Engineer. I am just a lowly Civil Engr. >This HAS to be and OLD question, but I didn't find it in the FAQ (I read 6.4 >How can I get/build a cable for my HP48? and 12.1 How to Make a Serial >Cable ). What is the cylindrical thing on my HP cable? Is it an ESD shielding resistor of some kind? I've been lectured on >Electro-Static-Discharge by a technician from Motorolla. I have alot of >static in my office and at home (where I will use the new cable). Please >tell me, >might I need the expensive HP cable? >> > is the link basically a piece of wire or does it contain any (probably >> > passive) components, if so where and what? > Nope. It's just a straight connection. The wiring diagram is even in the >> HP manual. > === Subject: Re: What is the cylindrical thing on my HP cable? AFAIK it's a big ferrite bead which acts as a RF sponge to soak up unwanted high freq harmonics (noise). You see them on computer monitor cables and on the leads to high frequency switching transistors. I've used them on switching power supplies and they do a great job of high freq noise reduction. On Fri, 27 Nov 1998 07:46:52 -0600, David Gent monitor. >It's basically a Ferro noise suppresser. The Technical explanation escapes >me for the moment. >It would be better explained by some Electrical Engineer. I am just a lowly >Civil Engr. >This HAS to be and OLD question, but I didn't find it in the FAQ (I read >6.4 >>How can I get/build a cable for my HP48? and 12.1 How to Make a Serial >>Cable ). What is the cylindrical thing on my HP cable? >> === Subject: Re: What is the cylindrical thing on my HP cable? AFAIK it's a big ferrite bead which acts as a RF sponge to soak up unwanted high freq harmonics (noise). You see them on computer monitor cables and on the leads to high frequency switching transistors. I've used them on switching power supplies and they do a great job of high freq noise reduction. On Fri, 27 Nov 1998 07:46:52 -0600, David Gent monitor. >It's basically a Ferro noise suppresser. The Technical explanation escapes >me for the moment. >It would be better explained by some Electrical Engineer. I am just a lowly >Civil Engr. >This HAS to be and OLD question, but I didn't find it in the FAQ (I read >6.4 >>How can I get/build a cable for my HP48? and 12.1 How to Make a Serial >>Cable ). What is the cylindrical thing on my HP cable? >> === Subject: wrong eigenvalues Calculation of eigenvalues on my GX-R(and egn.vetors)for the following matrix results in totally wrong answer: [0 0 1 0] [0 0 0 1] [-80 -80 0 0] [80 -120 0 0] egnvalues should be pure imaginary, thought their arguments aren't even close to -pi. Anyone care to explain? === Subject: Re: wrong eigenvalues What is your basis for stating that the eigenvalues should be pure imaginary? > Calculation of eigenvalues on my GX-R(and egn.vetors)for the following > matrix results in totally wrong answer: > [0 0 1 0] > [0 0 0 1] > [-80 -80 0 0] > [80 -120 0 0] > egnvalues should be pure imaginary, thought their arguments aren't even > close to -pi. Anyone care to explain? === Subject: Re: wrong eigenvalues Maple gives the following eigenvalues for your matrix: 3.639444078 + 10.64168940 I, 3.639444078 - 10.64168940 I, -3.639444078 + 10.64168940 I, -3.639444078 - 10.64168940 I Same results with an HP48G+ phil kenny > > Calculation of eigenvalues on my GX-R(and egn.vetors)for the following > matrix results in totally wrong answer: > [0 0 1 0] > [0 0 0 1] > [-80 -80 0 0] > [80 -120 0 0] > egnvalues should be pure imaginary, thought their arguments aren't even > close to -pi. Anyone care to explain? === Subject: Where from in the UK ? I'm thinking of upgrading from a 32SII (not enough memory). Any ideas where I can get hold of a '48 in the UK ? I get the feeling that wandering into Dixons won't help ! Rick Hellicar -- === Subject: Re: Where from in the UK ? eml.ericsson.se.@gecm.com > > > I'm thinking of upgrading from a 32SII (not enough memory). > > Any ideas where I can get hold of a '48 in the UK ? I get the > feeling that wandering into Dixons won't help ! Try RMS Marketing http://www.rms-marketing.ltd.uk -- Bruce Horrocks (Mailto:Bruce.Horrocks@gecm.com) Camberley, Surrey GU15 3PD. Tel: 01276 686777 Fax: 01276 686623 GNET: 832 3032 === Subject: Re: Where from in the UK ? Any idea how much they charge nowadays? I think I paid about 250 quid for mine about 4 years ago. Loads of money, but haven't regretted it! Graham Searle esrsm@eng.warwick.ac.uk === Subject: Problems with ABASE and GnuTools after long time absent i took on the work on dtetris3, a modified version of Christian Bourgeois' one. (Still have no email-adress of C.B. ) I made the latest changes with JAZZ, so i used it's style, uses ABASE and ABUFF Now i tried it with GNUTools 2.1.9, Win version. But i always get an error with the first ABUFF label. The Label is not duplicated, but reported so. I tried it even with HP-IDe 1.22, which is a frontend for HPtools and GNUTools /SLOAD: Duplicate entry *OUTPUT/DTET in modules DTETRIS3.o and DTETRIS3.o /SLOAD: Duplicate entry bRAN1 in modules DTETRIS3.o and DTETRIS3.o Both lines does not make any sense for me. Is there someone with an idea whats wrong ? tnx, Jens http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: Problems with ABASE and GnuTools Hello Jens. Christian's address is: bourge_c@epita.fr Can you please send me your source code so I can test it with the HPtools v3.x I've fixed some problems there but I didn't have the possibility to test them. Jean-Yves >after long time absent i took on the work on dtetris3, a modified >version of Christian Bourgeois' one. >(Still have no email-adress of C.B. ) I made the latest changes with JAZZ, so i used it's style, uses ABASE and >ABUFF Now i tried it with GNUTools 2.1.9, Win version. But i always get an >error with the first ABUFF label. The Label is not duplicated, but reported >so. I tried it even with HP-IDe 1.22, which is a frontend for HPtools and GNUTools /SLOAD: Duplicate entry *OUTPUT/DTET in modules DTETRIS3.o and DTETRIS3.o >/SLOAD: Duplicate entry bRAN1 in modules DTETRIS3.o and DTETRIS3.o Both lines does not make any sense for me. Is there someone with an idea whats wrong ? >tnx, Jens http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: Problems with ABASE and GnuTools hi, > Christian's address is: > bourge_c@epita.fr tnx a lot. Now i can ask him, if he has a problem with my disassemble and recompile of his program. I've seen similar discussions here ;) Can you please send me your source code so I can test it with the HPtools > v3.x I've fixed some problems there but I didn't have the possibility to test > them. I could get it to work with GNUtools Linux (and Win32, later), so this is a problem of HPIDE (sorry, i subscribed the HPIDE list with a nowerdays unaccessable mail account, so i report here) But i saw two other problems with GNUtools 2.1.9, HPTools the same as i can see Don't know if there are known bugs. the opcodes xSRB.F W are compiled as xSRB W blah LA(5) (Label1)-(*) blah Label1 INCLUDE file.s sasm forgets Label1 and declaims it. Do you need a beta tester for the new hptools ? cu, Jens http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: Problems with ABASE and GnuTools You were right about the declaration label. There is definitely a problem with the actual version of the GNU Tools and with the old HP Tools (v1.89) This won't work LC(5) (Label1)-(*) Label1 INCLUDE source.a While this will work: LC(5) (Label1)-(*) Label1 INCLUDE source.a The problem comes from SASM which proceed the label after a mnemonic. and INCLUDE ignore any labels placed on the same line. This bug has been fixed on the HPtools v3 Jean-Yves >hi, > Christian's address is: >> bourge_c@epita.fr >tnx a lot. Now i can ask him, if he has a problem with my disassemble and >recompile of his program. I've seen similar discussions here ;) > Can you please send me your source code so I can test it with the HPtools >> v3.x >> I've fixed some problems there but I didn't have the possibility to test >> them. I could get it to work with GNUtools Linux (and Win32, later), so this is a >problem of HPIDE (sorry, i subscribed the HPIDE list with a nowerdays >unaccessable mail account, so i report here) But i saw two other problems >with GNUtools 2.1.9, HPTools the same as i can see Don't know if there are >known bugs. the opcodes xSRB.F W are compiled as xSRB W blah > LA(5) (Label1)-(*) > blah >Label1 INCLUDE file.s sasm forgets Label1 and declaims it. >Do you need a beta tester for the new hptools ? cu, Jens >http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: Problems with ABASE and GnuTools Hello I've corrected one bug in the label declaration, but I didn't see any bugs with what you've described. Anyway, I've tried your example and it works fine with the HPTools I don't see the problem with the xSRB.F W. Actually it takes less space than the other opcodes and is faster as well. But I can fix that if you prefer Jean-Yves >hi, > Christian's address is: >> bourge_c@epita.fr >tnx a lot. Now i can ask him, if he has a problem with my disassemble and >recompile of his program. I've seen similar discussions here ;) > Can you please send me your source code so I can test it with the HPtools >> v3.x >> I've fixed some problems there but I didn't have the possibility to test >> them. I could get it to work with GNUtools Linux (and Win32, later), so this is a >problem of HPIDE (sorry, i subscribed the HPIDE list with a nowerdays >unaccessable mail account, so i report here) But i saw two other problems >with GNUtools 2.1.9, HPTools the same as i can see Don't know if there are >known bugs. the opcodes xSRB.F W are compiled as xSRB W blah > LA(5) (Label1)-(*) > blah >Label1 INCLUDE file.s sasm forgets Label1 and declaims it. >Do you need a beta tester for the new hptools ? cu, Jens >http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: QFD: xBSRB.F W or BSR W (Re: Problems with ABASE and GnuTools) hi, > I don't see the problem with the xSRB.F W. Actually it takes less space than > the other opcodes and is faster as well. > But I can fix that if you prefer Jean-Yves > so this is a feature, not a bug. When i tried to compile my source with GNUtools, i detected several differences. If i try to INCLUDE a file with HPHP48... header, i won't get an error, but the output is different, sure. And the other difference was BSRB.F W and BSRB W It's okay for me. I didn't think about it, before i reported it as an error. cu, Jens http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: Problems with ABASE and GnuTools Well. I had to remove the patch you've requested: Extracted from the SASM.DOC file: NOTE: The label field is ignored by some of the pseudo-op instructions. These instructions ignore the label field: CHARMAP, CLRCARRY, CLRFLAG, CLRLIST, EJECT, INCLUDE, LISTALL, LISTM, LIST, MESSAGE, NOTREACHED, RDSYMB, SETCARRY, SETFLAG, SETLIST, STITLE, TITLE, and UNLIST. Jean-Yves >>hi, >>> Christian's address is: >>> bourge_c@epita.fr >>tnx a lot. Now i can ask him, if he has a problem with my disassemble and >>recompile of his program. I've seen similar discussions here ;) >>>> Can you please send me your source code so I can test it with the HPtools >>> v3.x >>>> I've fixed some problems there but I didn't have the possibility to test >>> them. >>I could get it to work with GNUtools Linux (and Win32, later), so this is a >>problem of HPIDE (sorry, i subscribed the HPIDE list with a nowerdays >>unaccessable mail account, so i report here) But i saw two other problems >>with GNUtools 2.1.9, HPTools the same as i can see Don't know if there are >>known bugs. >>the opcodes xSRB.F W are compiled as xSRB W >> blah >> LA(5) (Label1)-(*) >> blah >>Label1 INCLUDE file.s >>sasm forgets Label1 and declaims it. >>Do you need a beta tester for the new hptools ? >>cu, Jens >>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: Problems with ABASE and GnuTools > Well. I had to remove the patch you've requested: Extracted from the SASM.DOC file: NOTE: The label field is ignored by some of the pseudo-op > instructions. These instructions ignore the label field: > CHARMAP, CLRCARRY, CLRFLAG, CLRLIST, EJECT, INCLUDE, > LISTALL, LISTM, LIST, MESSAGE, NOTREACHED, RDSYMB, SETCARRY, > SETFLAG, SETLIST, STITLE, TITLE, and UNLIST. Jean-Yves So even that wasn't a bug ! Why should _i_ have found them, after years of use. RTFM, sure. And you want to keep compatible with what was and what will be. Good. And i now use the Label inside the INCLUDEd file. Jens http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Solving Equations with Multiple Roots I frequently use the solver function to solve equations with things like x^(4/3). Sometimes these equations have several roots. It is not a polynombial so the poly solver wont work. Is there any way I can get the other roots to the equations I enter. By the way I store the equation as EQ and press left shift Solve Solve to solve the equation and not the slow way of pressing right shift solve. Andrew === Subject: Re: Solving Equations with Multiple Roots > I frequently use the solver function to solve equations with > things like x^(4/3). Sometimes these equations have several roots. > It is not a polynomial so the poly solver wont work. > Is there any way I can get the other roots to the equations I enter? A program which executes ROOT multiple times automatically, to locate multiple real roots numerically, over a user-specified search range, has been posted here: ROOTS - find *all* roots (equation problems) 1997/02/10 Enjoy the Web -- but don't get stuck in it --- With best wishes from: John H Meyers === Subject: font where can i download some small font for Xview ??? === Subject: Re: font generally, one should first look at http://www.hpcalc.org where almost any kind of information and programs are collected and made accessible in a user-friendly manner Hope this helps Raymond Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germany.net === Subject: questions over Jazz Note: don't tell me to read the manual. I have read it, and unless being STUPID (which I am probably if the answer is in the manual) I have not found HOW TO do what I ask here (the manual isn't in my mother tongue, and I don't get all from it, THAT IS). :o) -- question 1: howto include an objet into Code? I'm using (trying to be more accurate) to convert a HP-Asm source to Jazz's ASS, and I need to do this: GOSUB after_ob /grob_data after_ob C=RSTK D1=C So I need the /obj to be included into the Code object to be created, so I can get from RSTK the included object's address. The HP-Asm command to include is / followed by the VAR name containing the object. How do you do that in Jazz? -- question 2: creation of macros Also, I do I create a macro? In HP-Asm I do code the macro normally, and I use a dedicated-Code routine (called ->MACRO) that strips out the prologue, and size 5 quartets, and all data to be leaped. When using Hp-Asm, I had coded dozens of macros, like this one: LC 800 OUT=C P= 15 *LOOP P=P-1 GONC LOOP C=0 X OUT=C It emits a small click sound, to warn me of errors, even if the sound is turned off on the HP. To create a macro from it, I would use the ASM command to create the Code, and then ->MACRO to turn the code into a string, prologue and size removed. Then, I would write this: ... /CLIC ... And HP-Asm includes the macro code into my Code being created. Howto.. using Jazz (you guessed! You're so clever.. :)) -- question 3: how to break a lib using Jazz, can it? Is Jazz able to break a lib, so I can get its $CONFIG object and check it before moving it to one of my ports? (I want to check $CONFIG objects of libs sent to me) Howto.. (let's strip that ok? ;-> -- question 4: how to create a lib using ASS? I have followed the Jazz's manual instructions on that, and I've not been able to assemble a lib. I wanted to have on my lib a dummy test xROMID 991 xTITLE testLib xCONFIG 991_cfg EXTERNAL pushme LABEL 991_cfg :: #3DF TOSRRP ; And I put the pushme string into HOME. When I do ASS I get a lib, but there's no pushme object into when it's installed in port 0 and the HP restarted (the lib is empty). How can I put an object into a lib? spanish, portuguese or swedish. -Gilb- (remove the z from my address to email me) 00 E2 22 76 58 1F 72 BA EA 94 78 F3 A2 63 E0 94 === Subject: Re: questions over Jazz And finally, the correct answers.. :) >-- question 1: howto include an objet into Code? In assembly language mode, which is 1. Between ASSEMBLE-RPL tokens 2. Between CODE-ENDCODE tokens you can include any object into the assembly language with INCLOB filename However, depending on the type of the object stored in 'filename' the object may be stripped of some fields, since usually one only wants to include the data contained by the object, not the prolog or size of the object. This is explained on page 15 of jazz.ps. In particular, the table there says that the first 20 nibbles of a grob are stripped away, meaning the DOGROB, the object size and the Y- and X-size fields. I assume this is precisely what you wanted. >-- question 2: creation of macros There are a couple ways to do what you are after: 1. Compile the macro as a separate code object, and use INCLOB to include it. The table on page 15 says that the first 10 nibbles of code objects are stripped away, which is precisely what you are after. 2. Store the macro as a separate source file, and use INCLUDE filename to include it in the source. 3. Define a true macro either in the source code itself, or in an external source file which is then INCLUDEd. This is also explained on page 15 of the manual. In your case you would use CLICK MACRO LC 800 OUT=C Or better: P= 15 P= 0 - P=P-1 P=P+1 GONC - GONC - C=0 X since then P=0 at exit OUT=C CLICK ENDM Then you can use code like GOSBVL =SAVPTR ... CLICK ... That is, the macro acts like any other opcode. Note however that using this method you still have to have the macro definition in source code form (the sample above). I would recommend placing the macros in a separate file, and then using INCLUDE at the beginning of your source code to *define* the macros. Note that actual code is not generated until you use the newly defined CLICK opcode. NOTE: The local label - enables you to call the same macro from several places. Had you used a fixed name, a second macro call would have generated a Duplicate Label error. NOTE: Jazz does NOT support macro argument substitution. This means you cannot define a macro which would take for example a number as an argument. This is possible with SASM, but I do not know whether other assemblers do it. >-- question 3: how to break a lib using Jazz, can it? Jazz does not 1. Break libraries in the sense of traditional library to directory converters. For this purpose use the various hacking libraries. 2. Disassemble libraries into source code. >-- question 4: how to create a lib using ASS? >xROMID 991 >xTITLE testLib >xCONFIG 991_cfg >EXTERNAL pushme LABEL 991_cfg >:: > #3DF > TOSRRP >; Step 1. Write a header just like the one above. You do not need to use the EXTERNAL declarations, but they are not harmful either. If necessary, the EXTERNAL declarations *can* be used to specify the numerical ordering of the commands in the library. Step 2. Include all your commands in the same source code. Step 3. Before each user level command add a sequence like NIBB 1 8 Step 4: Before each internal subroutine add a sequence like For example: xROMID 911 xTITLE testlib xCONFIG cfg_991 ( Note: 1st character should not be a number ) LABEL cfg_991 :: 991 TOSRRP ; NIBB 1 8 INCLUDE pushme ( Here we include an external source ) :: ( Here we have direct source ) HELP! showme ; :: DISPROW1 ; In principle you only need 1 source file to make a library. However, in your case you might prefer to make separate files for macros etc. WARNING: You cannot use INCLOB to include any program. In the example above Jazz will automatically output a ROMPTR for the 'showme' call in subroutine 'helpme'. Jazz DOES NOT do such conversions in objects included with INCLOB (This is usually done by library creation tools using the directory source structure). NOTE: The purpose of the nibble 8 is to declare that the subsequent user level command is 'regular', i.e., it has no special properties such as those associated with functions (derivatives, integrals etc). See other documentation for the explanation of the bits in the nibble (better known as property flags). >And I put the pushme string into HOME. When I do ASS I get a lib, but >there's no pushme object into when it's installed in port 0 and the HP >restarted (the lib is empty). Jazz does not assume that the pushme object is to be included, and then converted. Jazz *assembles source code*. You need to include the pushme source code as is, not as an object. Also, you need to specify the exact position of each command in the library by You did not include the pushme source code, therefore the library did declaration, therefore the library appeared empty. -- --- --> Mika Heiskanen mheiskan@gamma.hut.fi http://www.hut.fi/~mheiskan === Subject: how to read .ps files? =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=2C?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_mer=E7i?= > the object. This is explained on page 15 of jazz.ps. ^^ I have not been able to read that file. I have a Mac, is there something able to read .ps files? Note: I don't have Word or such things, it's really too expensive. All I own is shareware or freeware stuff, so please don't tell me to use a software that costs a lot to read .ps files, because I won't be able to. I have two applications to read/write text: Style 1.5.1 (which text oriented editor, reads PC/Mac/Unix text-only files) -Gilb- 00 E2 22 76 58 1F 72 BA EA 94 78 F3 A2 63 E0 94 === Subject: Re: how to read .ps files? Install the Adobe Acrobat Reader or GhostView. both of them exists on every platform. Jean-Yves > the object. This is explained on page 15 of jazz.ps. > ^^ >I have not been able to read that file. I have a Mac, is there something >able to read .ps files? Note: I don't have Word or such things, it's really too expensive. All I >own is shareware or freeware stuff, so please don't tell me to use a >software that costs a lot to read .ps files, because I won't be able to. I have two applications to read/write text: Style 1.5.1 (which >text oriented editor, reads PC/Mac/Unix text-only files) -Gilb- >00 E2 22 76 58 1F 72 BA EA 94 78 F3 A2 63 E0 94 === Subject: Re: how to read .ps files? <1djc6br.cxrzdov9qzeN@tntrasp19-76.abo.wanadoo.fr> the object. This is explained on page 15 of jazz.ps. > ^^ >I have not been able to read that file. I have a Mac, is there something >able to read .ps files? All I could find for the Mac is ghostscript, which of course is essential for many PostScript viewers, but could not find an actual viewer. I wouldn't recommend using ghostscript alone to view documents, it is extremely tedious. -- --- --> Mika Heiskanen mheiskan@gamma.hut.fi http://www.hut.fi/~mheiskan === Subject: Re: questions over Jazz > Note: don't tell me to read the manual. I have read it, and unless being > STUPID (which I am probably if the answer is in the manual) I have not > found HOW TO do what I ask here (the manual isn't in my mother tongue, > and I don't get all from it, THAT IS). :o) -- question 1: howto include an objet into Code? I'm using (trying to be more accurate) to convert a HP-Asm source to > Jazz's ASS, and I need to do this: GOSUB after_ob > /grob_data > after_ob C=RSTK > D1=C So I need the /obj to be included into the Code object to be created, so > I can get from RSTK the included object's address. The HP-Asm command to include is / followed by the VAR name containing > the object. How do you do that in Jazz? I believe there is a token called INCLOB (inlude object) and is used like If this doesn't work, you can DIS the object into a string, store the string into a variable and use INCLUDE: INCLUDE INCLUDE.FILE -- question 2: creation of macros Also, I do I create a macro? In HP-Asm I do code the macro normally, and > I use a dedicated-Code routine (called ->MACRO) that strips out the > prologue, and size 5 quartets, and all data to be leaped. When using Hp-Asm, I had coded dozens of macros, like this one: LC 800 > OUT=C > P= 15 > *LOOP > P=P-1 > GONC LOOP > C=0 X > OUT=C It emits a small click sound, to warn me of errors, even if the sound > is turned off on the HP. To create a macro from it, I would use the ASM > command to create the Code, and then ->MACRO to turn the code into a > string, prologue and size removed. Then, I would write this: ... > /CLIC > ... And HP-Asm includes the macro code into my Code being created. Howto.. using Jazz (you guessed! You're so clever.. :)) > I THINK this one is in the manual -- you can't make macros (feel free to correct me on this :) > -- question 3: how to break a lib using Jazz, can it? Is Jazz able to break a lib, so I can get its $CONFIG object and check > it before moving it to one of my ports? (I want to check $CONFIG objects > of libs sent to me) Howto.. (let's strip that ok? ;- You can, but it only shows up as a LIB hhhhh.... disassemble. Jazz currently doesn't disassemble libraries; but you CAN create one. > -- question 4: how to create a lib using ASS? I have followed the Jazz's manual instructions on that, and I've not > been able to assemble a lib. I wanted to have on my lib a dummy test xROMID 991 > xTITLE testLib > xCONFIG 991_cfg > EXTERNAL pushme LABEL 991_cfg > :: > #3DF > TOSRRP > ; And I put the pushme string into HOME. When I do ASS I get a lib, but > there's no pushme object into when it's installed in port 0 and the HP > restarted (the lib is empty). How can I put an object into a lib? > ASSEMBLE CON(1) 8 RPL :: ... code here ... ; > spanish, portuguese or swedish. -Gilb- (remove the z from my address to email me) > 00 E2 22 76 58 1F 72 BA EA 94 78 F3 A2 63 E0 94 > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: questions over Jazz > -- question 1: howto include an object into Code? Jazz docs Section 2.3 Machine Language Assembly: GOSUB after_ob INCLOB GROBFILE after_ob C=RSTK D1=C > -- question 2: creation of macros Also, I do I create a macro? In HP-Asm I do code the macro normally, and > I use a dedicated-Code routine (called ->MACRO) that strips out the > prologue, and size 5 quartets, and all data to be leaped. When using Hp-Asm, I had coded dozens of macros, like this one: LC 800 > OUT=C > P= 15 > *LOOP > P=P-1 > GONC LOOP > C=0 X > OUT=C That is no macro. Solution ? The same as above. Write a source file like above, sourounded by CODE ... ENDCODE , compile and save to file. Now INCLOB datafile But better would be to label the routine, give it an RTN and use GOSUB to access it blah... GOSUB Clic blah Clic blubber RTN or: INCLUDE Clic.s blah... GOSUB Clic blah > -- question 3: how to break a lib using Jazz, can it? Is Jazz able to break a lib, so I can get its $CONFIG object and check > it before moving it to one of my ports? (I want to check $CONFIG objects > of libs sent to me No. Maybe you want to use Mika's HackV9.2 library. It offers a XSTO, which checks $CONFIG, and won't execute the Code if it isnt a standard config. So you can use a Lib Config aborter/suppressor to avoid execution on startup. HackV9.2 offers also a RCFG to get a libs CONFIG and now you can disassemble and examine it. > -- question 4: how to create a lib using ASS? I have followed the Jazz's manual instructions on that, and I've not > been able to assemble a lib. I wanted to have on my lib a dummy test > And I put the pushme string into HOME. When I do ASS I get a lib, but > there's no pushme object into when it's installed in port 0 and the HP > restarted (the lib is empty). > xROMID 991 xTITLE testLib xCONFIG 991_cfg EXTERNAL pushme LABEL 991_cfg :: #3DF TOSRRP ; LABEL pushme INCLOB pushme * or INCLUDE pushme.s > spanish, portuguese or swedish. I can only reply in english or german. Sorry Jens http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: Temperature conversions > >Is it possible to convert temperatures (easely) between Celsius and > >Fahrenheit withe HP 48G ? Press the right-shift key and 6 (to select UNITS menu) Then, press NXT one time and key E to get into TEMP stuff Now, let's say you wanna get how much Celcius 88¡ F are, you type: 3: 2: 1: 88 and then press the ¡F key in the menu. When you type a value, and then a temp key, you associate the typed number with the temp system. You get: 3: 2: 1: 88_¡F Now, press left-shift and the menu-key for the temp sys you want. Here, we do left-shift and ¡C and we get: 3: 2: 1: 31.111111_¡C (I removed some 1s here) The manual will give you some other things and nice examples. :-) > Not really, it takes reading the thick manual that comes with the > calculator. Sometimes, I have to search for some commands I don't use a lot, because they're lying after some NXTs, in some left-shift menu combo. That happens. But.. by searching, sometimes we find some menu we never saw yet, and that's kinda fun ;-) And even if I got the manual, sometimes I cannot read from it: I bought a HP38 in germany (in Trier) and I don't speak a word of german. I got the manual, and when I need something, I have to translate word by word, sometimes pasting into Altavista's translating stuff. :) Diego, please: never let a newbie alone with the manual. Some are lost, and need help. If they spend time to write to us here, let's spend time writing help for them. With respect :) -Gilb- (remove the z from my address to email me) 00 E2 22 76 58 1F 72 BA EA 94 78 F3 A2 63 E0 94 === Subject: Re: why card must be unlocked to put a lib on stack? >> Is there a 5 quartet address that points to the object? > > The stack is a stack of pointer to objects, a pointer is 5 nibbles in > size. I know, those details were part of my bashfulness approach of the machine langage, as gloomy as spirited. Nevertheless, unveiling clear information upon my HP48's heart of hearts is discouraging: I achieved almost null information about system pointers, or even what happens when one turns on or off the HP. > > Where can I find extensive info about how port 2 works, and > > memory-related stuff? > > Dunno, sorry. Has hacking felt into abeyance? :P -Gilb- (remove the z from my address to email me) 00 E2 22 76 58 1F 72 BA EA 94 78 F3 A2 63 E0 94 === Subject: Re: HP BBS > What's the number to the HP BBS?? HP Electronic Information Service Modem: 2400 or 9600 or 14400 bauds, full duplex, 8Êbits, no parity and 1 bit stop. Internet: hpcvbbs.external.hp.com (or: 192.6.221.13) using telnet, ftp or any World-wide-web communication tool (navigator, lynx, mosaic) :-) -Gilb- (remove the z from my address to email me) 00 E2 22 76 58 1F 72 BA EA 94 78 F3 A2 63 E0 94 === Subject: UPGRADING HP48G MEMORY I want to upgrade my hp48g to 128K, can you help me?? I know I must dessold the current chip and buy an 128k one. I need a schematic with all the steps Pedro Cardoso === Subject: Re: UPGRADING HP48G MEMORY Try em: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/7584/index.html http://freezone.exmachina.net/doegox/ Eva > I want to upgrade my hp48g to 128K, can you help me?? I know I must dessold > the current chip and buy an 128k one. I need a schematic with all the steps Pedro Cardoso === Subject: MC: Permutations of chars in a string New Mini-Challenge: Rearrange a string in all the possible ways. Input: STRING of any length > 1. (Bonus points if it works for len=1) Output: LIST of STRINGS (every possible permutation of the characters). Example: XYZ --> { XYZ XZY YXZ YZX ZXY ZYX } Winner: BYTES * TIME. Usual MC rules. Stand-alone User-RPL program only; no SYSEVAL; no LIBEVAL; no library functions; assumes default flag settings; leaves other stack contents alone; leaves no extraneous junk on the stack; etc etc etc. For what it's worth, Richard Nelson proposed this as a mini-challenge at last Friday's meeting of the Southern California PPC Chapter (hosted by Gary Tenzer), and nobody even came up with a program that worked, let alone a short or fast program. We're getting old much too fast... -Joe- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: MC: Permutations of chars in a string joehorn@usa.net a .8ecrit: > New Mini-Challenge: Rearrange a string in all the possible ways. Input: STRING of any length > 1. (Bonus points if it works for len=1) > Output: LIST of STRINGS (every possible permutation of the characters). Example: > XYZ --> { XYZ XZY YXZ YZX ZXY ZYX } Winner: BYTES * TIME. > Here's my first contribution to the MC: The program is recursive, so it should be called PERMS PERMS: << -> S << { } IF S SIZE 1 == THEN S + ELSE 1 S SIZE FOR I S I DUP SUB S 1 I 1 - SUB S I 1 + S SIZE SUB + PERMS LIST-> DUP 2 + ROLL -> T PREFIX << 1 T FOR J PREFIX J 1 + ROLL + J ROLLD NEXT T ->LIST >> + NEXT END >> BYTES -> #1A8Ch 243.5 ABCDE 'PERMS' MEM DROP TIM -> 2: {...} 1: 262097.39:31.99431_s on my GX (I use MEM DROP to force a garbage collection before the program) Erwann. === Subject: Re: MC: Permutations of chars in a string Entries so far, on an input of ABCDE: Erwann ABALEA's program 'PERMS': 243.5 bytes, 32 seconds. Hubert Canon's program 'PERMUT': 173.0 bytes, 33 seconds. TinyWanda's proposed program: fun idea but impractical (similar in spirit to BOGOSORT; see it on Goodies Disk #8). My current best (beat this!) is: 153.5 bytes, 4.5 seconds. It runs ABCDEF in 25.6 seconds. It's not recursive, so it can be named anything you wish. For the hackers out there, it uses (among other things) a nifty trick suggested by Richard Nelson: A fast way to obtain all the possible *rotations* of any string is to append the string to itself and then loop through that, SUBbing out successive chunks: Concept: ABC/ --> ABC/ABC/ ^--^ > ABC/ ^--^ ------> BC/A All the possible ^--^ -----> C/AB / rotations of ABC/ ^--^ ----> /ABC / Input: ABC/ Run: << DUP DUP + 1 ROT SIZE DUP 4 ROLLD START DUP 1 4 PICK SUB 3 ROLLD 2 OVER SIZE SUB NEXT DROP2 >> Output: ABC/ BC/A C/AB /ABC I'll post the complete MC program if nobody beats 153.5 bytes, ABCDE in 4.5 seconds, ABCDEF in 25.6 seconds. -Joe- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: MC: Permutations of chars in a string I'm in a bit of a rush, so here is my entry (which could probably be shortened a bit). Unfortunately I'm going to be out of town for the next 3 days (and need desperately to pack), but if something brilliant comes to mind, I'll post. << -> S << 1 S SIZE FOR i S i DUP SUB NEXT S SIZE ->LIST {} SWAP 1 << -> L C << L 1 << C << -> S D << 0 S SIZE FOR i S 1 i SUB D + S i 1 + S SIZE SUB + NEXT >> >> EVAL >> DOLIST >> >> DOLIST >> This comes in at 241 bytes. Using << ABC -> m << TICKS m PRMS TICKS ROT - >> >> as my test timer I'm averaging over 10 tests (6265 6268 6308 6346 6268 6308 6332 6266 6258 6316) 6293.5 ticks, or .76825s. 185.148 byte_secs === Subject: Re: MC: Permutations of chars in a string Darn that Joe Horn. . .how does he get his programs so short?!? Actually, I considered playing with rotations but I got lost in considerations of how to be sure all permutations came up. Trimmed my beastie a bit from last night, but still it isn't getting anywhere near Mr. Horn's program. Still, for what it is worth: << DUP 1 SWAP SIZE FOR i DUP i DUP SUB SWAP NEXT SIZE ->LIST {} SWAP 1 << -> C << 1 << C << -> S D << 0 S SIZE FOR i S 1 i SUB D + S i 1 + S SIZE SUB + NEXT >> >> EVAL >> DOLIST >> >> DOLIST >> This comes in at 216.5 bytes. Using << ABC -> m << TICKS m PRMS TICKS ROT - >> >> as my test timer I'm averaging over 10 tests 6130.9 ticks, and for ABCDE it comes in at an average of 64829.s ticks (7.913 secs). Unfortunately, I don't think this approach is going to yield much in the way of getting down to Mr. Horn's stunning results. Oh well, on that long drive to Amarillo I may think of something. If this isn't over by Friday, I'll try to post something new. Donald http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: MC: Permutations of chars in a string Here's my mini-challenge entry. G/GX only (uses list processing). %%HP: T(3)A(D)F(.); @ ARR$ by Joe Horn, 2 Dec 1998. @ Input: String @ Output: List of all its rearrangements. << DUP HEAD 1 ->LIST SWAP TAIL SWAP 1 3 PICK SIZE FOR j OVER j DUP SUB ADD 1 << DUP DUP + 1 ROT SIZE DUP 4 ROLLD START DUP 1 4 PICK SUB 3 ROLLD 2 OVER SIZE SUB NEXT DROP2 >> DOSUBS NEXT SWAP DROP >> BYTES: #64B3h 153.5 Execution time: Handles ABCDEF in 25.4 seconds. +--+ | CONCEPT | for processing a string beginning with ABCD +--+ Start with A. Now insert B into all the possible positions (namely, in front and behind) as shown in this diagram: A ^ ^ B B This yields BA and AB, the only two possible arrangements of AB. Now take those and insert C into all the possible positions, as shown in this diagram: B A A B ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ C C C C C C This yields CBA, BCA, BAC, CAB, ACB, and ABC, the six possible arrangements of ABC. Now do the same thing for D: C B A B C A B A C C A B A C B A B C ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D This yields the 24 possible arrangements of ABCD. The process is repeated for each remaining letter (if any). ++ | TRICK | ++ Rather than *inserting* each character into the string, it's faster to merely add it to the front and then *rotate* the string to obtain all the other positions of the character. This yields a different order of the final strings, but that's okay since the order doesn't matter as long as all the possible rearrangements are generated, which they are. Example: Rather than doing this, B A A B ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ C C C C C C merely do this instead: B A A B ^ ^ C C CBA DUP + --> CBACBA ^^^----> CBA ^^^---> BAC ^^^--> ACB CAB DUP + --> CABCAB ^^^----> CAB ^^^---> ABC ^^^--> BCA Thus we obtain CBA, BAC, ACB, CAB, ABC, and BCA, the six possible arrangements of ABC. Notice that the order of these six strings is different from the order shown under CONCEPT above, but none are repeated and none are missing, and that's all that matters. -Joe- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: MC: Permutations of chars in a string It's always SO much easier to improve upon someone else's version: @ bytes: 122.0 @ check: # EE7Fh @ timing: ABCDEF 23.95_secs (jkh's took 27.41_secs on EMU48) << { } OVER SIZE 1 SWAP FOR j OVER j DUP SUB ADD 1 << DUP + 1 j START TAIL DUP 1 j SUB SWAP NEXT DROP >> DOSUBS NEXT SWAP DROP >> -- Werner Huysegoms remove the x before replying http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: MC: Permutations of chars in a string : It's always SO much easier to improve upon someone else's version: This is so true. You can squeeze your version down to 115.5 bytes as follows: : << : { } : OVER SIZE 1 SWAP : FOR j : OVER j DUP SUB ADD : 1 : << : 1 j : START DUP HEAD + TAIL DUP : NEXT : DROP : >> : DOSUBS : NEXT : SWAP DROP : >> Problem is that this runs slower (31.7 sec for ABCDEF as compared to 23.9 for the original). Are HEAD and TAIL particularly slow opeartaions? Donald === Subject: Re: MC: Permutations of chars in a string DB notes: Darn that Joe Horn. . .how does he get his programs so short?!? Actually, I considered playing with rotations but I got lost in considerations of how to be sure all permutations came up. ----:: o it seemed to me that it was always a folding program... if you could figure out how to fold it just right, it could become a very short loop...??? ( i'm working on my chrstmsa wee-books and i can't concintrate on ANYTHING...! ) === Subject: Re: MC: Permutations of chars in a string Erwann ABALEA a .8ecrit: > PERMS: > << -> S > << { } IF S SIZE 1 == THEN S + > ELSE 1 S SIZE FOR I S I DUP SUB S 1 I 1 - SUB S I 1 + S SIZE SUB + > PERMS > LIST-> DUP 2 + ROLL -> T PREFIX > << > 1 T FOR J PREFIX J 1 + ROLL + J ROLLD NEXT T ->LIST > > + NEXT END > > >> Funny thing... I just wanted to speedup my code and reduce it, so I tried to replace the part LIST-> DUP 2 + ROLL -> T PREFIX << 1 T FOR J PREFIX J 1 + ROLL + J ROLLD NEXT T ->LIST >> + NEXT END by a simple ADD statement, which does exactely the same thing (this part of my program takes a prefix string in level 2, a list of strings in level 1, and adds the prefix to each of the strings of the list)... It is smaller, but also slower! My first version takes 32.04s to find the premutations of ABCDE, and with the ADD version, it takes about 39s!! Why? Erwann. === Subject: Re: MC: Permutations of chars in a string Distribution: world Dans comp.sys.hp48, joehorn@usa.net .8ecrivait : > Input: STRING of any length > 1. (Bonus points if it works for len=1) > Output: LIST of STRINGS (every possible permutation of the characters). > > Example: > XYZ --> { XYZ XZY YXZ YZX ZXY ZYX } Maybe something like that will work (I have not my HP48 with me to test it) : 'PERMUT' Ç DUP LENGTH -> s l Ç IF l 1 <= THEN s 1 ->LIST ELSE 1 l FOR i s 1 i 1 - SUB s i 1 + l SUB + PERMUT s i DUP SUB ADD OBJ-> DROP NEXT l FACT ->LIST END È È -- Hubert Canon === Subject: How do you find a plot fast? How do you find a plot fast? Try plotting this as a function: -1/7500*x^3+6/5*x^2=0 Unfortunately ZAUTO does not work in this case or many like this one. Its there a way of sizing up the plotter automatically. Any good programs ? Eva Sweden hellqvisteva@hotmail.com === Subject: Plot expression, not equation (How do you find a plot fast?) > -1/7500*x^3+6/5*x^2=0 > Unfortunately ZAUTO > does not work in this case or many like this one. Leave out =0 For equations whose left-hand side consists of some expression other than the name of the dependent variable, the left-hand and right-hand expressions are *both* plotted [User's Guide] --- With best wishes from: John H Meyers === Subject: Re: 48gx inofmation and resources The FAQ would be an excellent start. -jt >Where can I find highly-detailed information about the 48gx, its hardware, >software, etc? > === Subject: downloading java35b15.lib I am having problems downloading this file to my gx. For some dumb reason the file cannot be found. If anyone else is having problems with this or knows how to download it. Could you please help. === Subject: Re: downloading java35b15.lib >I am having problems downloading this file to my gx. For some dumb >reason the file cannot be found. If anyone else is having problems with >this or knows how to download it. Could you please help. Many people have had problems, and it's mainly due to their browsers not handling the .lib extension and not knowing what to do with it. You have to shift click in Netscape, I don't know about Internet Explorer. I think I might just zip the file on its own just to avoid this problem. Anyways I'm making a 3.5b16 right now. -- Andre Schoorl PGP key available on request/keyserver Comp Engineering, UVic, Canada Linux/HP48 http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/ === Subject: Re: Katarina Witt Playboy Photos - All for free! (Be 18+) has Katarina written any good programs for the 48... are the programs she's written on the site mentioned...??? === Subject: Mischievious 48 returns... i've been working on my SnowFlake program for the last couple of days, and it's been taking ALONG time to draw them, since i've been trying to make them the way god makes them...sort of... so yesterday, i was trying to make a 200 by 200 pixel one, and it was taking several hours, and the batteries went dead while it was working on it... so when i put new ones, actually 2 new ones, and one half full one...it didn't come back up...!!! but i noticed that when i took the batteries out, and then rearranged them, or took one out, and put it back in, the screen garble would change...??? i also tried ON/C, ON/D, ON/E, ON/A/F... all without effect... i've tried the hole in the back on many other occasions, and it's never worked, so i didn't try it this time... so anyway, i left the batteries out for about 5 hours, and when i put them back in, it took a little while longer than normal to come up, but then it did...with NO loss of memory...! it just looked up at me with those puppy dog LCD's like, uh...what are you looking at me like that for...??? === Subject: Je veux + de m.8emoire sur ma HP48G je cherches quelqu'un qui pourrait rajouter de la m.8emoire sur ma hp48g et qui habiterait pr.8fs de chez moi: Saint-Maur dans le val-de-marne. ICQ: 14850543 e-mail: ludmarce@infonie.fr === Subject: Re: Je veux + de =?iso-8859-1?Q?m=E9moire?= sur ma HP48G Allemand. Essayer http://www.cynox.de/start.htm > > je cherches quelqu'un qui pourrait rajouter de la m.8emoire > sur ma hp48g et qui habiterait pr.8fs de chez moi: > Saint-Maur dans le val-de-marne. > > ICQ: 14850543 > e-mail: ludmarce@infonie.fr -- Bob Wheeler --- (Reply to: bwheeler@echip.com) ECHIP, Inc. === Subject: EQSTK question. I downloaded EQSTK in order to use it with Erable. After tinkering around, I noticed 3 variables that were created. One was EPS which had the value of 1e-9 and I don't recall the other two. After deleting them and 'rebooting' the HP48, the EQSTK wouldn't work. I ended up detatching all of my libraries, turning the calculator on and off, and then manually reattaching the libraries in order to get it to work. Is this normal??? Any suggestions on how to not run into this problem again??? also. Al === Subject: Re: EQSTK question. > I downloaded EQSTK in order to use it with Erable. After tinkering > around, I noticed 3 variables that were created. One was EPS which had > the value of 1e-9 and I don't recall the other two. After deleting them > and 'rebooting' the HP48, the EQSTK wouldn't work. I ended up detatching > all of my libraries, turning the calculator on and off, and then > manually reattaching the libraries in order to get it to work. Is this normal??? Any suggestions on how to not run into this problem again??? also. > Al Al: The 3 variables you referred to are from Erable, not EQSTK. They are 'modulo', 'eps' and 'vx'. Do not purge them as they are used by Erable. Be sure to thoroughly read the documentation from Erable. Full documentation of Erable 3.024 is online as well as changes in version 3.2. One tip I would give you is to doublecheck all files you download into the HP48. If there is any kind of hiccuping in transmission, you may have corrupted data, causing all kinds of errors. I believe I had that happen to me with the newest version of Erable, causing me to think wrongly the program wasn't working! A second tip I would give you is create directories where you conduct all your work on the calculator where these sorts of variables do not clutter up your screen. As an example, Left Arrow-->Var Key-->Dir-->'Name of directory' on level 1 of the stack-->CrDir. You can do this with other functions of the HP48 which create all sorts of variables: the Equation Library, Plotting, and the Solver. Indeed, one of the neatest things about the HP48 is its ability to create directory within directory. It is the easist calculator with which to organize programs, notes, etc... as long as you have enough memory. Hope this helps you - J.C. Randerson http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: EQSTK question. On Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:24:39 -0600, Alan Elmer >I downloaded EQSTK in order to use it with Erable. After tinkering >around, I noticed 3 variables that were created. One was EPS which had >the value of 1e-9 and I don't recall the other two. After deleting them >and 'rebooting' the HP48, the EQSTK wouldn't work. I ended up detatching >all of my libraries, turning the calculator on and off, and then >manually reattaching the libraries in order to get it to work. Hi Al, I'm not exactly sure that I have the answer, but my thaughts might help... In appendix A (FAQ) of the Erable documentation it is mentioned that when you press the ON key *too fast* (when turning the calc off) EQStk will stop working. ON-C will help to get ASTK again working. If this fails you must reinstall EQStk. I'm using Erable and EQStk on my calc without any problems, so I hope it should work on yours also. Good luck! Peter E-Mail: karpfenteich@gmx.de _______________________________ Do you know the great Frequently Asked Questions? http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/ and the superb HP48 Software Archive? http://www.hpcalc.org to look for *old* HP48 postings see http://www.dejanews.com === Subject: TDS (Tripod Data Systems) After moving for the um-teenth million time (ok, the 6th time in 6 years), I just located my old 128K HP ram card, my 256K TDS ram card, and my 512K TDS ram card. I cannot find the bank switching software for the 256K and 512K cards. Does anyone have this program, or does anyone have an address or phone number for them. Al p.s. After getting a new batter for the 128K card, I should be able to load ALG48. === Subject: Re: TDS (Tripod Data Systems) Distribution: inet boundary=-----8D2CA8CBD89B9C2B42B41CF3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. 8D2CA8CBD89B9C2B42B41CF3 Hi Alan, I do have the software for the bankswitching of the TDS 256K and 512K ram cards. Unfortunately the software is on 5 1/4 floppys and I have disconnected my 5 1/4 floppy at the time. Please let me know if you don't find any other source and I will reconnect my fdd... Martin > After moving for the um-teenth million time (ok, the 6th time in 6 > years), I just located my old 128K HP ram card, my 256K TDS ram card, > and my 512K TDS ram card. I cannot find the bank switching software for > the 256K and 512K cards. Does anyone have this program, or does anyone > have an address or phone number for them. > Al p.s. After getting a new batter for the 128K card, I should be able to > load ALG48. 8D2CA8CBD89B9C2B42B41CF3 name=pedersen.vcf Content-Description: Card for Martin Pedersen filename=pedersen.vcf begin:vcard n:Pedersen;Martin tel;fax:+49-201-24718-010482 tel;home:+49-561-15184 org:adr: adr:;;Goethestra§e 6;Kassel;;D-34119;Germany version:2.1 email;internet:pedersen@student.uni-kassel.de fn:Martin Pedersen end:vcard 8D2CA8CBD89B9C2B42B41CF3-- === Subject: Re: TDS (Tripod Data Systems) please be aware of one fact: If you have an older TDS card, you should replace the card batteries immediately after the first 'Low Card Battery' warning. This is due to a hardware 'bug' in the older TDS MultiMemory cards, which causes the card controller circuits to burn if such a situation occurs. Hope this helps Raymond Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germany.net === Subject: Re: TDS (Tripod Data Systems) >After moving for the um-teenth million time (ok, the 6th time in 6 >years), I just located my old 128K HP ram card, my 256K TDS ram card, >and my 512K TDS ram card. I cannot find the bank switching software for >the 256K and 512K cards. Does anyone have this program, or does anyone >have an address or phone number for them. Here is their web site, which should provide the information you need: http://www.tdsway.com/ === Subject: Re: TDS (Tripod Data Systems) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. 7A7EBFD5DC59E4ACB330BB35 Tell me if this works. I supposedly attached SWITCH, a downloadable library object, to this message. > After moving for the um-teenth million time (ok, the 6th time in 6 > years), I just located my old 128K HP ram card, my 256K TDS ram card, > and my 512K TDS ram card. I cannot find the bank switching software for > the 256K and 512K cards. Does anyone have this program, or does anyone > have an address or phone number for them. > Al p.s. After getting a new batter for the 128K card, I should be able to > load ALG48. 7A7EBFD5DC59E4ACB330BB35 begin 644 Switch === Subject: I need a manual!!!!!!!!! HELP!!! where can I get a HP48GX manual? http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: I need a manual!!!!!!!!! Why not try HP? === Subject: Re: I need a manual!!!!!!!!! how come you need a manual, since you are rplgod ? Raymond Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germany.net === Subject: convolution using hp48gx ? Keywords: convolution program hp48 Anyone know where to get a fast convolution program for the hp48. I want to take in two 1D arrays and convolve them but can't seem to find this function. I can probably write a slow one, as soon as I figure out how to get the length of an array, but am not a good programmer. 3 [1 2 3] 2 [1 1 1] -->conv 1 [1 3 6 5 3] bradiko@hotmail.com === Subject: Re: convolution using hp48gx ? > > Anyone know where to get a fast convolution program for the hp48. I want to > take in two 1D arrays and convolve them but can't seem to find this function. > I can probably write a slow one, as soon as I figure out how to get the length > of an array, but am not a good programmer. > > 3 [1 2 3] > 2 [1 1 1] > -->conv > 1 [1 3 6 5 3] > > bradiko@hotmail.com Here's a post I sent out a few weeks ago on the topic. I retrieved it from dejanews. I sent out a first message, and then the next day I sent this correction. Both messages are here. Dave. ----- I don't speak for HP when I post here. I have a few corrections. First, the vectors are not required to have the last half be zeroes. The only requirement is that the convolved vector will fit in the space alotted, and that the space alotted be a power of two. If the first vector has n elements, and the second has m elements, the convolution will have n+m-1 significant elements. Thus, both starting vectors should be padded with zeroes to be of length n+m-1. This is my theory for today. Counter-examples are welcomed. Second, I can't seem to spell some days. The command is CEIL, not greatly simplifies the padding routine. So the program to create the input vectors for the convolution routine looks more like this: << DUP2 SIZE EVAL SWAP SIZE EVAL + 1 - Calculate minimum vector size LN 2 LN / .0000001 - CEIL 2 SWAP ^ Making sure it is a power of 2 1 ->LIST DUP 4 ROLLD RDM wants a single-element list RDM SWAP ROT RDM Expand both vectors >> This program leaves A and B swapped, but that doesn't matter in the convolution. Starting with [1 2 3 4 5] and [1 2 3 4] we get [1 2 3 4 5 0 0 0] [1 2 3 4 0 0 0 0] which convolves to [1 4 10 20 30 34 31 20] The third example from the previus post would be: [1 3 5 3 1] [7 3 2 1] [1 3 5 3 1 0 0 0] [7 3 2 1 0 0 0 0] [7 24 46 43 29 14 5 1] Bye! Dave. > > > I read a message yesterday dealing with convolution of time- > discrete functions. I wanted to reply today but I couldn't find it. > I hope the original questioner reads this. > > The fellow who asked wanted a program or process to convolve two > vectors, where the vector elements indicate the values of the > functions to be convolved. For example: > > A = [ 1 1 1 1 ] > > B = [ 1 1 1 1 ] > > C= A*B = [ 1 2 3 4 3 2 1 ] where * indicates convlution. > > The theory states that convolution in the time domain is > equivalent to multiplication in the frequency domain. I use that > principle in my proposed solution. First, I require that the > two input vectors be of equal length, having a power of 2 as the > number of elements, and having at least the last half of the > elements equal to zero. Otherwise there is wrap-around in > the Fast Fourrier Transform that makes things really ugly. > > Start: A on level 1, B on level 2. > Result: C on level 1 > > << > FFT Change A to freq domain > OBJ-> OBJ-> DROP ->LIST Turn b(s) into a list > SWAP FFT Change B to freq domain > OBJ-> OBJ-> DROP ->LIST Turn b(s) into list > * Multiply in freq domain > OBJ-> 1 ->LIST ->ARRY Turn c(s) into vector > IFFT Change c to time tomain > > > Here are my results. I round any 1E-15 numbers to zero. > > B: [ 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 ] > A: [ 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 ] > > C: [ 1 2 3 4 3 2 1 0 ] > > B: [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ] > A: [ 1 2 3 4 4 3 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ] > > C: [ 1 4 10 20 34 51 70 90 101 102 92 70 44 23 8 0 ] > > When the vactors are of different length, or not of length 2 exp(n), > fake it. Remember: same length; length is a power of 2; last half > at least is all zeroes. > > B: [ 1 3 5 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ] > A: [ 7 3 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ] > > C: [ 7 24 46 43 29 14 5 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ] > > Given any two vectors, the following program will expand them and > pad them to match the rules: > > << > DUP2 SIZE EVAL SWAP > SIZE EVAL MAX Find the size of the longest vector > LN 2 LN / .0000001 - > CIEL 2 SWAP ^ 2 * Determine the size necessary to fit rules > -> B A SC B Vector, A vector, Size of C vector > << > B OBJ-> OBJ-> DROP Open up the B vector > WHILE DUP SC < > REPEAT 0 SWAP 1 + Pad it with zeroes > END > 1 ->LIST ->ARRY Wrap B up as a vector > > A OBJ-> OBJ-> DROP Do the same with A > WHILE DUP SC < > REPEAT 0 SWAP 1 + > END > 1 ->LIST ->ARRY > > > > So if I start with > > 2: [1 3 5 3 1] > 1: [7 3 2 1] > > this second program gives me the vectors shown in the last > example, and we are ready to convolve them. > > Best of Success! > Dave. > ------ > I don't speak for HP when I post here. === Subject: GPS to HP48GX Is there a program to display GPS data from an attached NMEA speaking receiver on at HP48GX. If so, what is it's name and where is it located? Any information would be appreciated. TIA Vic Fraenckel victorf@wizvax.net === Subject: Re: GPS to HP48GX Title: GxPS v1.0 Beta Class: Communications Author: Jason Grant Supported Platforms: S/Sx/G/Gx Suggested Locations: http://hp48.ml.org/utils/comms/ GxPS is a collection of programs for the HP 48 to exchange various data with a Garmin GPS. Features: o Waypoint upload/download for many models, including the GPS 45, 12(XL), II(+), and III. - waypoints are presented in an easily viewable/editable format - supports icons to some degree (numbers, but not graphics) o Get position from GPS (all models) o Get time and date from GPS (all models) o Synchronize the HP's clock with the GPS's o Display GPS version information (all models) o Turn off GPS You can find it at http://hp48.ml.org/ under communications programs === Subject: What is a good substitute for an hp42 s Hi... My hp was stolen and I am a college student that really loved the 42 s. I am wondering what calculator to use now, since I can't find one just like the one that I had stolen. I tried the 32 s II, but it is just not the same. If you === Subject: Re: What is a good substitute for an hp42 s Try www.ebay.com They normally have about 30 used HP calcs on sale at any given time. > Hi... My hp was stolen and I am a college student that really loved the 42 s. I > am wondering what calculator to use now, since I can't find one just like the > one that I had stolen. I tried the 32 s II, but it is just not the same. If you === Subject: Graphing question Hi. How do I graph equations like z=x^2+y^2 or y=x and x=y^2-y simultanously in order to find the limits to solve multiple === Subject: Re: Graphing question > Hi. How do I graph equations like z=x^2+y^2 or y=x and x=y^2-y > simultanously in order to find the limits to solve multiple > Lifeng: Graph them as a list: example: {'x' 'x^2' 'x^3} 'EQ'-->STO ,Right Arrow-->Plot(check your plot type and parameters)-->ERASE-->DRAX-->DRAW and you should have all your functions on the screen. There may be better ways to do this but I've had good results with this method. Also, have you tried the Erable program? It does a good job with limits. You can download it from www.hpcalc.org/ Hope this helps you - J.C. Randerson http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: Graphing question > > Hi. How do I graph equations like z=x^2+y^2 or y=x and x=y^2-y > > simultanously in order to find the limits to solve multiple > > Lifeng: Graph them as a list: example: {'x' 'x^2' 'x^3} 'EQ'-->STO ,Left > Arrow-->Plot(check your plot type and parameters)-->ERASE-->DRAX-->DRAW and > you should have all your functions on the screen. There may be better ways to > do this but I've had good results with this method. Also, have you tried the > Erable program? It does a good job with limits. You can download it from > www.hpcalc.org/ > For some stupid reason I said Right Arrow instead of Left Arrow in the first message - J.C. Randerson http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: Graphing question > Hi. How do I graph equations like z=x^2+y^2 or y=x and x=y^2-y > simultanously in order to find the limits to solve multiple You can only do multiple graphs of functions that can be put into y=f(x) form. Make a list of the right hand sides ( the f(x) algebraics) and store in EQ, then graph as normally. You will get both graphs. Can also work with more than 2 functions, but more is slower. === Subject: Re: Graphing question That's not entirely true. You CAN graph z=x^2+y^2 using the wireframe type of graph. Look for wireframe in your manual. On Sat, 28 Nov 1998 19:52:15 -0600, vmhjr@frii.com (Virgil Hancher) > Hi. How do I graph equations like z=x^2+y^2 or y=x and x=y^2-y >> simultanously in order to find the limits to solve multiple You can only do multiple graphs of functions that can be put into y=f(x) form. Make a list of the right hand sides ( the f(x) algebraics) and store in >EQ, then graph as normally. You will get both graphs. Can also work with >more than 2 functions, but more is slower. === Subject: Configuring EMU48 .kml I would like press control key on my keyboard corrispond to pressing alpha key on the virtual HP. How would I make? === Subject: Communicating How may I communicat between my real HP48GX an the virtual one? === Subject: Re: Statistics: 2 way ANOVA 0517D10F680FE7FFDF1C9321 I do not know of a HP-48 program that does ANOVAs (although there was an excellent one in the STATS pac for the HP-41, it would be a bear to translate from RPN to RPL ;-). However, it is fairly straightforward process to use multiple linear regression to perform the same task by judicious use of dummy variables representing the row and column factors. ... [A] regression model for two-way ANOVA can be interpreted in terms of cell, marginal, and overall means associated with the two-way layout... When there are r rows and c columns, a regression model can be formulated involving r-1 dummy variables for the row factor, c-1 dummny variables for the column factor, and (r-1)(c-1) interaction dummy variables constructed by forming products of each of the row dummy variables with each of the column dummy variables. (Kleinbaum, David G., Lawrence L. Kupper, and Keith E. Muller, Applied Regression Analysis and Other Multivariable Methods, Second Edition, 1988, p. 433). Kleinbaum, et al. go on to list the various F tests one can conduct under LR to generate the exact same results as under ANOVAs, and was the first book that came to mind, but any number of other elementary texts on statistics should also make the link between ANOVAs and LR, and aid you in your quest for statistical knowledge. Good luck in your search! PCN > Does anyone know of a program that'll perform a two way varians analysis? 0517D10F680FE7FFDF1C9321 I do not know of a HP-48 program that does ANOVAs (although there was an excellent one in the STATS pac for the HP-41, it would be a bear to translate from RPN to RPL ;-).  However, it is fairly straightforward process to use multiple linear regression to perform the same task by judicious use of dummy variables representing the row and column factors.

... [A] regression model for two-way ANOVA can be interpreted in terms of cell, marginal, and overall means associated with the two-way layout... When there are r rows and c columns, a regression model can be formulated involving r-1 dummy variables for the row factor, c-1 dummny variables for the column factor, and (r-1)(c-1) interaction dummy variables constructed by forming products of each of the row dummy variables with each of the column dummy variables.  (Kleinbaum, David G., Lawrence L. Kupper, and Keith E. Muller, Applied Regression Analysis and Other Multivariable Methods, Second Edition, 1988, p. 433).

Kleinbaum, et al. go on to list the various F tests one can conduct under LR to generate the exact same results as under ANOVAs, and was the first book that came to mind, but any number of other elementary texts on statistics should also make the link between ANOVAs and LR, and aid you in your quest for statistical knowledge.

Good luck in your search!

PCN

Does anyone know of a program that'll perform a two way varians analysis?
0517D10F680FE7FFDF1C9321-- === Subject: Re: Statistics: 2 way ANOVA Give me another few days and I will release a newer version of Stat48. This one does include 1-way and 2-way ANOVA. Today is Monday, so I'm shooting for Wednesday. Other enhancements will include: * Test for two sample proportions * Standardized notation * Still trying to decide whether I'll include confidence intervals for 2 sample means, and 2 sample proportions. I will announce the release as soon as I post it. Scott Guth sguth@mtsac.edu >Does anyone know of a program that'll perform a two way varians analysis >? === Subject: How do I enter equations like this into Erable ? How do I enter equations like this into Erable ? y' + ay = 0 i.e.. What is r value if y = EXP(r*x) : y' - pi*y = 0 The answer is r = pi The problem is that I don't know how solve y' equations on my HP48. Eva Hellqvist hellqvisteva@hotmail.com -- Fear is that little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past me I will turn to see it's path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. DUNE === Subject: Best latest freewares on HP48 http://perso.cybercable.fr/harold === Subject: Configuring EMU48 I would like holding down ctrl key on my PC keyboard corresponds to pressing alpha key on the virtual HP48GX. How could I do? Is the way in adding some lines in KML scripts? === Subject: Re: Configuring EMU48 Purtroppo non ho la risposta alla tua domanda, pero' mi servirebbe aiuto Ho appena comprato il cavo per collegare il PC alla HP48GX Mi serve un emulatore, dove posso trovarlo? Quale e' il migliore? Come faccio a copiare la ROM della HP sul PC? Grazieeeee === Subject: Awesome sport TinyWanda, I am not big on replying to these news posts, but occasionaly ask a question or two. I really enjoy reading your posts because you are very open minded accepting the good with the bad. Keep up the posts and keep us laughing!!! Al === Subject: Re: Awesome sport et oh...!!!! ooOooooOoooh...'an mail...! run away...run away...!!! sproogles...! === Subject: Bad keyboard contact... About a week ago my beloved G began freezing in the middle of what I was doing. Around 60% of the time I turned on my calculator (and within 5 minutes in the other 40% of the the time) the number 4 would appear in the entry area. After performing numerous ON-C's and manual resets (hole under foot) and being unable to correct the problem, I did an ON-A-F (NO) -- same problem. Having left my batteries out for 6 days, I replaced them this morning, selected NO on the recovery screen and was greeted with a 4 on the stack. It was only then that I remembered a post about key contacts and loose cases. Though mine has never been opened, gently flexing or squeezing the case does seem to correlate to the 4 key being pressed. Is there any way, without opening my calculator, to remedy the situation? Inventive solutions allowed -- not enough money to buy a replacement. TIA Avi Zollman -- Brought to you by the little, green men on my shoulder. ICQ: 1491048 PGP Instant Message: avi piro Avi Zollman......................avi.at.zollman.dot.com === Subject: AUGH!!! AUGH!!! Dagnabit! Now it won't even turn on. Looks like it's Office Depot's problem. -- Brought to you by the little, green men on my shoulder. ICQ: 1491048 PGP Instant Message: avi piro Avi Zollman......................avi.at.zollman.dot.com === How do i show time and date in URPL?? === > How do i show time and date in URPL?? Show it where? At the top of the screen? -40 SF --- With best wishes from: John H Meyers === On Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:50:36 +0100, Kristoffer Lidman : How do i show time and date in URPL?? Well, how about << DATE TIME AND >> ? I don't know why you'd want to AND them, that's only useful for binary values, not for normal numbers... If you find the format in which date and/or time is returned to be a bit unclear, try << DATE TIME TSTR >> My .02 Pete Commercial email sent to this address will be proofread === No, I mean to show the current time and date in my program, for example in a MSGBOX === > No, > I mean to show the current time and date in my program, for example in a > MSGBOX Try DATE TIME TSTR to get a string with the day of the week, date and time in it, suitable for DISP or MSGBOX Or you can then SUB out the parts you want to use if you don't want the whole string. === Left Arrow 4 (TIME), then click on A or C for the DATE or TIME functions. Andrew. On Mon, 30 Nov 1998 16:37:11 +0100, Kristoffer Lidman No, >I mean to show the current time and date in my program, for example in a >MSGBOX > -- ************************************************************* * Andrew Beckett * Tel: +44 1344 360333 * * Technical Leader, Custom IC * Fax: +44 1344 360324 * * Cadence Design Systems Ltd * Email: andrewb@cadence.com * * Bagshot Road * * * Bracknell. RG12 3PH * * ************************************************************* === Showing the time and date: if you have the new g or gx or the even newer gzx 9000... you can hit the blue key, then the CST key, then the FLAG Menu key, then scroll UP to get to the bottom of the listing... then continue to scroll up... until you find the 40's Flag 40 displays the clock & calendar 41 toggles between 12 and 24 hour displays 42 is either mm/dd/yy or dd.mm.yy 43 has something to do with alarms...??? 44 has more to do with alarms...??? if you have an old sx or the older sp 400... these flags should still work... a very useful program to put on a user key is: Input is a flag number, either positive or negative... << DUP FS? :: CF :: SF IFTE >> this will toggle the flag so you never have to learn which setting represents what function...! === Subject: HP82240B IR data needed I need information on the Infra Red settings that are used to communicate with the above HP printer to try and pass data to a Psion3c. Any help would be much appreciated. Please reply direct to me on 999@fraz.freeserve.com Steve Fraser === Subject: Syseval and Libeval list I'm looking for a list with all syseval and libeval for hp48GX. Does anybody know where can i found it? === Subject: Battery failure Hello gurus, I've got a problem that has me totally stumped. My GX has started draining a new set of batteries every 3 days. Under normal circumstances, I would expect it to grow about 7 centimeters every day due to the amount of energy it consumes. I have tried leaving it without batteries for a week to no avail. I have removed my HP ram cards and done the same. Still no soap or soup. The resistance between the batt terminals reads less tham 1K while the same reading on my SX is significantly greateer. I hate the idea of paying HP (or anybody else for that matter) 102 bucks for a replacement. I have parts from surgery (using a $29 S to repair an SX with a broken screen), but don't have any idea what is causing it to eat batteries. Any help would be appreciated. === Subject: Re: Battery failure I read somewhere that this calculators have some kind of diode that can be fried if batteries are put incorrectly, i mean, reversed. If that happen, your batteries last 2-3 days, what it is happening to you. -=UssU=- >Hello gurus, >I've got a problem that has me totally stumped. My GX has started draining a >new set of batteries every 3 days. Under normal circumstances, I would expect >it to grow about 7 centimeters every day due to the amount of energy it >consumes. I have tried leaving it without batteries for a week to no avail. I >have removed my HP ram cards and done the same. Still no soap or soup. The >resistance between the batt terminals reads less tham 1K while the same reading >on my SX is significantly greateer. I hate the idea of paying HP (or anybody >else for that matter) 102 bucks for a replacement. I have parts from surgery >(using a $29 S to repair an SX with a broken screen), but don't have any idea >what is causing it to eat batteries. Any help would be appreciated. > === Subject: Calculators for sale Not that it has anything to do with the venerable HP48 or the programming thereof, but if you are a collector or have one on your Christmas list, I am selling some antique HP machines on EBAY. HP 12C http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=45730490 HP25C and Box http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=45705541 HP29C http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=45709823 HP25 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item HP65 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=45719069 HP21 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=45739609 === Subject: MC: String Permutation Entry Mix takes a ( short ) string of characters, and returns all the possible Permutations of those characters... Name: Mix CheckSum: # B550h Size: 250 Author: T.Wanda ABCD 250 * .00117 = .29299 size .mmss The time fluctuates wildly, as the technique used here is to simply scramble the characters, check to see if the latest combination in on the list, and if not, add it to it. At the beginning of the program, the number of Permutations are calculated, and when the list reaches that number, the program stops. While the program is running, The LCD displays; The desired number of combinations, A backwards countdown to that total, And the number of itinerations. It often takes many times the itinerations of the Permutations total to find all the desired sets...??? i think that this approach is actually quite useful when you want to do something like this, but don't really have a thorough enough understanding of the phenomena to write a 'good' program to emulate the data...??? (!) %%HP: T(3)A(D)F(.); << CLLCD { } OVER SIZE DUP PERM DUP 1 DISP 0 -> 191 << WHILE DUP REPEAT SWAP ROT RAND OVER SIZE * CEIL -> pi << DUP pi DUP SUB OVER 1 pi 1 - SUB + SWAP pi 1 + OVER SIZE SUB + >> DUP2 POS << 3 ROLLD SWAP >> << DUP 4 ROLLD + SWAP 1 - >> IFTE DUP 3 DISP '191' INCR 4 DISP END DROP SWAP DROP SORT >> === Subject: Re: Mechanical Engeenering hp48 Although I'm very interested in this area, I'm afraid I'm not the programmer kind, and the only ones I can offer you are those you can get at Eric Rechlin's Web Site. > I have a lot of programs of all kinds, if you wanna interchange some ones > write me: > ajsmx@hotmail.com > > > === Subject: ML program needed Hi everybody, I«m looking for some help making a entry line with a small blinking cursor (Like TED) in ML, using FNT1. I've tried this in SysRPL but it's too slow because of the blink and the entry at the same time, so I think ML would be a better (faster) solution. Can someone help me ? Paulo Tavares jpnt@mail.telepac.pt === Subject: Re: ML program needed hello >Hi everybody, I«m looking for some help making a entry line with a small >blinking cursor (Like TED) in ML, using FNT1. I've tried this in SysRPL but >it's too slow because of the blink and the entry at the same time, so I >think ML would be a better (faster) solution. >Can someone help me ? you can use the assembly entry point EDIT_SBR of the meta kernel that provide a one line ML editor. here is the doc: 4.2.4 EDIT_SBR Adress C0053 Description Mini .8editor Call INIT_DISPLAY_LINE first. Input R4 = Screen address. Ca = Max NB of character to input. D1 = Address of the output buffer. ST9 = set to one to use the mini font. Output carry set if the user press the ON key. -- A+ Cyrille de Brebisson Le Meilleur moment pour planter un arbre etait il y a 20 ans. Le Deuxiemme meilleur moment est maintenant The Best Time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best moment is now. http://www.capway.com/brebisso === Subject: Re: ML program needed did you take a look at the sources of JAZZ ? Maybe there are the commented sources for TED. The sources of JAZZ can be found at http://www.hpcalc.org Raymond Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germany.net === Subject: Re: ML program needed =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=2C?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_mer=E7i?= > Hi everybody, I«m looking for some help making a entry line with a small > blinking cursor (Like TED) in ML, using FNT1. I've tried this in SysRPL but > it's too slow because of the blink and the entry at the same time, so I > think ML would be a better (faster) solution. > Can someone help me ? What should the Code do? Show an entry line? And where? And what should it to after the user typed in something? Put the string on stack? -Gilb- 00 E2 22 76 58 1F 72 BA EA 94 78 F3 A2 63 E0 94 === Subject: Re: IR ...can anyone tell me what an IR upgrade IS? Brian >Can anybody tell me what good will an IR upgrade do??? >KrysJ > === Subject: Re: IR : Can anybody tell me what good will an IR upgrade do??? Depends on which one. If you mean the one where the resistor in the receiver is replaced, you'll get double the reception range. (That brings the reliable data transmission range to a whopping 1.5 ft if both HPs are upgraded !) Further decreasing the resistor apparently (haven't tried it on my GX) brings no further increase in range. BUT it does bring increased power consumption. Pete Commercial email sent to this address will be proofread === Subject: Re: IR So the way I see it its not really worth the time as well as battery life.... : Can anybody tell me what good will an IR upgrade do??? > Depends on which one. > If you mean the one where the resistor in the receiver is replaced, you'll > get double the reception range. (That brings the reliable data transmission > range to a whopping 1.5 ft if both HPs are upgraded !) > Further decreasing the resistor apparently (haven't tried it on my GX) > brings no further increase in range. BUT it does bring increased power > consumption. Pete Commercial email sent to this address will be proofread === Subject: Re: IR Brian : Can anybody tell me what good will an IR upgrade do??? >Depends on which one. >If you mean the one where the resistor in the receiver is replaced, you'll >get double the reception range. (That brings the reliable data transmission >range to a whopping 1.5 ft if both HPs are upgraded !) >Further decreasing the resistor apparently (haven't tried it on my GX) >brings no further increase in range. BUT it does bring increased power >consumption. Pete Commercial email sent to this address will be proofread === Subject: SnowFlakerizer ( Mighty Fat ) SnowFlakizer By TinyWanda TinyWanda@aol.com SnowFlakizer draws SnowFlakes on PICT. These may be regulation snowflakes, or modified snowflakes. You have the option of printing them out as a continuous stream with the Thermal Printer, or Saving them and transferring them to your big box at a later time. The Snow Directory has 25 Objects in it initially... Make The Main Program ->P.Sz Defines the Size of PICT Varz Inputs all the Variables that are Needed Save Saves anything without Thinking .1to1 Defines PICT with Square Pixels for the B Printer Ptrue Defines PICT with Square Pixels for the A Printer Abc Translates Decimal Numbers to Alphabet Numbers Bep Makes Bepping Noises Bold Thickens the Lines on a GROB Cpict Moves LCD view to the Center of PICT ~Sub Inverse of SUB Do.? Does something or doesn't do something Do.F Sets or Clears a Flag Pxdm Returns the Size of one Pixel ->6? Creates a Quantumized Semi-Random Destination ->12 Plots a Kalidoscopic Array of Pixels P->r Polar to Real R->p Real to Polar .->a Used with Save to define auto-names .->e Node Memories .->^ Flake Facets .->$ Pixel Facets .->d Deviation of Angularity .->p Pixel Density PPAR Plot Parameters Flags Set Off 2 Facet Reflection Mirrored Asymetrical 3 Thicker Lines Thick Thin 4 Colours White Lines Black Lines 5 Destination Print Save :------:: The Objects: :------:: Make # 29AFh 373 Make has a double click feature which allows you to call up the Variable assigner routine ( Varz ). If you single click the program, it will simply begin making Snowflakes using the currently defined Global Variables. ( see Varz ) ------:: < ->P.Sz # 6A03h 63 SnowFlakizer works best (!) when the PICT is defined as a Square, so this program allows you to input a single Real Number to define both parameters... REMEMBER! If you're going to use the line thickener, with the Thermal printer...allow for an extra pixel to be added to the width, after plotting, but before Printing! Also; If you have an old A Thermal printer, the pixels are higher than wider...So if you define the PICT width as 165 ( 166 for skinny line plots ) then set the hieght at 138 or so...??? The Ratio is .827957 of Width. OR: (!) AND: (?) If you have a new B Thermal Printer, or are using some other printer that uses the correct proportions...then change 'Ptrue' in 'Make' to '.1to1'...!!! ------:: < Varz # 52B6h 783 Varz is a separate utility to assign all the Variables that Make and some of the other Programs use. The INFORM window will ask for: Meta Snow Flake Variables ^ Flake Facets The number of arms/legs on the SnowFlake v Pixel Facets The number of sides to a pixel (?) The new pixels can only be added to old pixels at certain quantified angles to the old pixels. Use 6 for Regulation Snowflakes. p Pixel Density The length of a Snow Pixel Each Snow Pixel is actually a Line drawn from an old pixel to a new pixel, this is how long that line is, in pixels. e Node Memory The number of recallable Pixel Nodes To provide continuity, new pixels are added to old pixels, this is how many old pixels are remembered. a Alpha Variable The first Saved Name; 1 = A The 'Save' program saves things by assigning a sequential name to those items, that it's given, one at a time... 1 starts with A, then the Alpha Variable is incremented to B, and so on... After Z, it goes to AA, then AB & so on... d Deviation of Rotation When you're plotting snowflakes, the horizontal lines will look 'stronger' than the diagonal lines... If this annoys you, you might set this variable to something to rotate the snowflake slightly...? F2 Facet Reflection Set/1 Causes the SnowFlake arms to be plotted as Reflections, like a Kalidoscope. Clr/0 Causes the Mandala's arms to be plotted Asymetrically. F3 Thicker Lines Set/1 After the figure is plotted, The entire GROB will be Bolded. Clr/0 The plotted figure will be left alone. F4 White on Black or vice/versa Set/1 After the figure is plotted, The GROB will be Negatized. Clr/0 The plotted figure will be left alone. F5 Print or Save Set/1 Will print each Snowflake, then begin a new one. Clr/0 Will Save the Snowflake in the Snow Directory. ------:: < Save # C86Bh 53 Painlessly Saves any object on 1: using the numerical value in the alpha variable as an alphabetic name...? if alpha = 1 then the assigned name will be 'A' if alpha = 27 then the assigned name will be 'AA' ------:: < .1to1 # C5CBh 141.5 Reconfigures PICT so that the pixels are Square. ------:: < Ptrue # DFB7h 115.5 Reconfigures PICT so that the pixels are 'squished' so that when the PICT is recalled and Printed on the A Thermal Printer, The pixels will appear squared. ------:: < Abc # 6C77h 150 Converts a real integer number to is Alphabetic equivalent. 1 = A 26 = Z 27 = AA 343821 = SNOW 2953735 = FLAKE ------:: < Bep # 74BFh 350.5 Makes Bepping noises. Input may either be a single Real Integer 06? # 2478h 79 Takes an (x,y) coordinate from PICT on 1: and Returns a quantified pixel near it, as defined by the variables .->p & .->$. Out put is actually a list of the old pixel and the new one. ------:: < ->12 # AC4Ch 272 Is used by Make, and requires a stack configuration unique to that application...! (?) 4: The Derived Position of the Pixel Set 3: The Remembered Node Pixel Set ( List ) 2: The Pair of Pixels to be Plotted 1: Dup of 2: If the second pixel of the pair to be plotted falls on a black pixel, than no pixels are plotted, and the originating pixel is deleted from the Node List! ------:: < P->r # 83B2h 48.5 Polar to Real ( radius, angle ) is converted to ( x, y ) ------:: < R->p # FCA7h 48.5 Real to Polar ( x, y ) is converted to ( radius, angle ) ------:: < :-----:: o :: The Snow Directory :-----:: o :: Name: Snow CheckSum: # E64Ch Size: 3270 :-----:: o : %%HP: T(3)A(D)F(.); DIR Make << .2 WAIT KEY << DROP Varz >> IFT :&: Cpict EVAL DO IFERR { } RAND .38 * RAND .38 * ->V2 + ERASE DO DUP 1 DUP 4 ROLLD GET ->6? DUP ->12 2 GET DUP 3 ROLLD SWAP + DUP SIZE 183->Ge >= :: TAIL IFT UNTIL SWAP ABS PPAR 2 GET RE 183->254 - >= END THEN END RAND 60 * CEIL { 3 } + Bep PICT RCL 3 FS? :&: Bold IFT 4 FS? :: NEG IFT 5 FS? << PR1 CR >> 'Save' IFTE CLEAR UNTIL KEY END DROP >> ->P183Sz << PICT Size As A Square INPUT OBJ-> R->B DUP PDIM >> Varz << META SNOW FLAKE VARIABLES { { GD: FLAKE FACETS } { Ga: ALPHA VARIABLE } { F2 1:FACET REFLECTION } { .V: PIXEL FACETS } { 240: DEVIATION OF ROTATION } { F3 1:THICKER LINES } { 254: PIXEL DENSITY } { } { F4 1:WHITE ON BLACK } { Ge: NODE MEMORY } { } { F5 1:PRINT OR 0:SAVE } } { 3 3 } { 6 1 1 6 0 1 3 1 38 1 } 183->GD 183->Ga 2 FS? 183->167 183->240 3 FS? 183->254 Pxdm ABS / 0 RND 4 FS? 183->Ge 5 FS? 10 ->LIST INFORM << EVAL 5 Do183F 9 ROLLD 4 Do183F -1 1 DUP2 XRNG YRNG 5 FS? 'Ptrue' '1831to1' IFTE Pxdm ABS * 8 ROLLD 3 Do183F ROT 2 Do183F 6 ->LIST { 183->254 183->Ge 183->GD 183->Ga 183->167 183->240 } STO >> << { 20 4 } Bep Uh-Oh!!! Run Away, Run Away!!! DOERR >> IFTE >> Save << 183->Ga Abc OBJ-> STO '183->Ga' 1 STO+ >> 1831to1 << { # 1d # 0d } PX->C { # 0d # 1d } PX->C - V-> DUP2 MAX OVER == << SWAP / *W >> << / *H >> IFTE >> Ptrue << :&: Pxdm EVAL OBJ-> / DUP .83788 < << INV .83788 * *W >> << 1.1936 * *H >> IFTE >> Abc << WHILE OVER 26 > REPEAT OVER 26 SWAP 1 - SWAP MOD 1 + DUP 64 + CHR ROT + 3 ROLLD - 26 / SWAP END SWAP 64 + CHR SWAP + >> Bep << DUP TYPE 5 == << EVAL >> << 1 SWAP >> IFTE -> Ge GD << { { 20 15 .5 } { 100 20 .1 } { 2000 500 .02 } { 4000 1000 .005 } { 8000 10 .04 } } GD GET EVAL -> a b c << RCLF -56 CF 1 Ge START RAND a * b + c BEEP NEXT STOF >> >> >> Bold << -> $ << $ SIZE 1 + SWAP 1 + SWAP BLANK { # 0d # 0d } $ REPL { # 1d # 0d } $ GOR { # 1d # 1d } $ GOR { # 0d # 1d } $ GOR >> >> Cpict << PICT SIZE 64 - 2 / SWAP 131 - 2 / SWAP 2 ->LIST PVIEW >> ~Sub << ROT DUP SIZE OVER 1 6 ROLL 1 - SUB ROT 4 ROLL 1 + 4 ROLL SUB + >> Do183? << 2: DoThis 1: Chance .2 WAIT KEY << DROP INPUT OBJ-> >> :: DROP IFTE DUP 1 < :: INV IFT RAND * CEIL 1 == :: EVAL :: DROP IFTE >> Do183F << SWAP :: SF :: CF IFTE >> Pxdm << { # 1d # 0d } PX->C { # 0d # 1d } PX->C - >> ->6? << DUP 183->254 RAND 183->167 * CEIL 360 183->167 / * ->V2 P->r + 2 ->LIST >> ->12 << { LINE TLINE } RAND 2 * CEIL GET -> |v << DUP 2 GET PIX? << ROT 4 ROLL DUP ~Sub 3 ROLLD >> << 4 ROLL DROP -> Ga << 0 2 FS? FOR 191 0 359 FOR x- Ga 1 << R->p 191 :: CONJ IFT V-> x- + 183->240 + ->V2 P->r >> DOLIST EVAL |v EVAL 360 183->GD / STEP NEXT >> >> IFTE >> >> P->r << V-> -16 SF ->V2 -16 CF >> R->p << -16 SF V-> -16 CF R->C >> 183->Ga 1 183->Ge 26 183->GD 6 183->167 6 183->240 7 183->254 5.17395205737E-2 PPAR { (-1,-1) (1,1) X 0 (0,0) FUNCTION Y } END -----[ Terminus ]----- :: === Subject: Future of RPL & Assembly While most of the speculation about the successor to the HP48 focuses on things like processor speed, screen size, etc...it seems to me that that most important question is 'What will the new programming environment be?' For starters, if the rumors of a different processor are true, then we face the prospect of learning a whole new assembly language. Also, what changes will be made to SysRPL? Would it be unchanged, an upgrade like VC++5.0 to 6.0, or a total reworking like C to C++? I think secretiveness on this matter is not beneficial to HP or to users. The purpose of industrial secrecy is to prevent competitors from 'scooping' your product. But within the market niche of the HP48, there are no competitors. Everyone would be better served in this case if HP were to follow the lead in Intel and keep the public informed of the direction of development so that we can plan and prepare for the use of the new features. Anyone care to comment? http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: Future of RPL & Assembly <73tfv0$ia5$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... >I think secretiveness on this matter is not beneficial to HP or to users. The >purpose of industrial secrecy is to prevent competitors from 'scooping' your >product. But within the market niche of the HP48, there are no competitors. >Everyone would be better served in this case if HP were to follow the lead in >Intel and keep the public informed of the direction of development so that we >can plan and prepare for the use of the new features. Keeping secrets is probably not beneficial to the user - yes, but it obviously keeps your competitors somewhat at bay, helps you move the last of the old stock, lets you get it right before release, keeps with HP tradition, what else? I think HP definitely has 48 competitors. IMO Intel's public education is necessary to evangelize, to help open development of systems and peripherals, and help corporations with purchasing plans. Things move so fast in their world that the delay would be intolerable. BTW -- what about a StrongArm + Wince device? Is there any consensus among the speculators on the CPU and OS? === Subject: Re: Future of RPL & Assembly >BTW -- what about a StrongArm + Wince device? Is there any consensus among >the speculators on the CPU and OS? > Why would anyone care what the speculators think? HP is developiung the device, and if they've decided what platform to base it on by watching this NG, they need better engineers. (Note: HP decidedly is NOT having us make these decisions for them, I'm not impugning their engineers.) If a company is tight-lipped about it's next product, why do people always go nuts about what some random, uninformed person thinks MIGHT be coming, instead of just finding out from the company when the product is released? Not to be bitter, but I had more than enough of this in the course of the long, slow death of the Amiga... Michael === Subject: Re: Future of RPL & Assembly I asked about consensus because there may be some clear favorite for CPU or storage. Others know more about state of the art low power stuff than I do. I agree that it makes little difference and gets somewhat tiring to read posts about stuff that will probably never happen but .... It is fun to speculate about what one is familiar with, to guess at what might be, and even to see how far off you were. I enjoy it because it puts you in the perspective of a person who is sitting before a blank canvas and assigned to best fill it. You have a palette of technologies to blend while balancing a set of constraints. How would you do it? >>BTW -- what about a StrongArm + Wince device? Is there any consensus among >>the speculators on the CPU and OS? > >Why would anyone care what the speculators think? HP is developiung the >device, and if they've decided what platform to base it on by watching this NG, >they need better engineers. (Note: HP decidedly is NOT having us make these >decisions for them, I'm not impugning their engineers.) If a company is >tight-lipped about it's next product, why do people always go nuts about what >some random, uninformed person thinks MIGHT be coming, instead of just finding >out from the company when the product is released? Not to be bitter, but I had more than enough of this in the course of the long, >slow death of the Amiga... Michael === Subject: Re: Future of RPL & Assembly Twisting your post (but not its meaning) slightly: [big snip Anyone care to comment? ] ...if HP were to follow the lead in Intel... Sorry, I have to disagree with this. Following Intel is not something I would *ever* do willingly; it's just not healthy to have the whole world hanging on the coat-tails of one manufacturer like that. It is incumbent on all free thinkers to remain independent and to choose the most sensible, rather than the most popular route.:-) Phew---that's better! Dick -- === Subject: Re: Future of RPL & Assembly Nah! The next HP calculator will be an PDA type machine (similar to the E-11) and run WinCE (or maybe linux?). You will be able to program in VB x.x. The calculator 'system' will be in ROM and will be updated periodically (knowing HP - at megabucks/update). Brian <73tfv0$ia5$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... >While most of the speculation about the successor to the HP48 focuses on >things like processor speed, screen size, etc...it seems to me that that most >important question is 'What will the new programming environment be?' For starters, if the rumors of a different processor are true, then we face >the prospect of learning a whole new assembly language. Also, what changes >will be made to SysRPL? Would it be unchanged, an upgrade like VC++5.0 to >6.0, or a total reworking like C to C++? I think secretiveness on this matter is not beneficial to HP or to users. The >purpose of industrial secrecy is to prevent competitors from 'scooping' your >product. But within the market niche of the HP48, there are no competitors. >Everyone would be better served in this case if HP were to follow the lead in >Intel and keep the public informed of the direction of development so that we >can plan and prepare for the use of the new features. Anyone care to comment? http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: Future of RPL & Assembly > While most of the speculation about the successor to the HP48 focuses on > things like processor speed, screen size, etc...it seems to me that that most > important question is 'What will the new programming environment be?' For starters, if the rumors of a different processor are true, then we face > the prospect of learning a whole new assembly language. Also, what changes > will be made to SysRPL? Would it be unchanged, an upgrade like VC++5.0 to > 6.0, or a total reworking like C to C++? I think secretiveness on this matter is not beneficial to HP or to users. The > purpose of industrial secrecy is to prevent competitors from 'scooping' your > product. But within the market niche of the HP48, there are no competitors. > Everyone would be better served in this case if HP were to follow the lead in > Intel and keep the public informed of the direction of development so that we > can plan and prepare for the use of the new features. Anyone care to comment? http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own > Wendell: You raise a very interesting question: what information, if any, should HP release regarding a new machine? You believe HP machines are so specialized within their market niche that there is no competition, and details regarding various aspects, i.e., programming, should be given out. Believe me, as an HP nut (I bought my first HP-35 in 1973) I'd love to know a lot myself. But the reality is that if HP has some truly revolutionary new technology that it will use in the new machine, it will be patented, and this is definitely proprietary. Leaks may occur from time to time, and they have to be judged as to the source of the leak. But on the whole, it is unwise to release information before a product is ready. I would much rather have a new machine sprung on me, rather than a repeat of the ridiculous release of the TI-89. TI hyped that to death for over 6 months before it hit the market, then it was almost impossible to buy one for the first two months. If HP really has something fantastic to offer, they're the first ones to try and get it to market as soon as possible. Besides, don't you want HP to get it right? If HP can't make a new machine to beat the TI-89, they might as well get out of the calculator business. I want a machine that will beat the living daylights out of the TI-89. The occasional interesting leak aside, I'm willing to wait for HP to get it right and just present me with it one day in a great news release that it's available at local retailers. - J.C. Randerson http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: Future of RPL & Assembly > Believe me, as an HP nut (I bought my first HP-35 in 1973) > I'd love to know a lot myself. But the reality is that if HP > has some truly revolutionary new technology that it will use in the > new machine, it will be patented, and this is definitely proprietary. A patent will already protect the invention; patents were invented to make disclosure feasible, rather than to require secrecy as protection. BTW, according to RPLMAN.DOC, a feature of the RPL operating system implementation in the HP48 is patented by HP. > on the whole, it is unwise to release information > before a product is ready. Tell that to IBM, which had to be legally restrained by the U. S. Justice Department from doing so, when they used to announce computers that were only a gleam in an engineer's eye, to persuade customers not to switch to other vendors meanwhile :) I have also found myself working as a consultant to companies which are already running ads in trade magazines for the very product which they have just hired me to help them create, and I think I still have, as a souvenir of my employment by a now-defunct computer company, a complete programming manual for one of its computers, which actually never came into existence :) However, when the announcement of a new product will compete only with a company's own existing products, and may cause customers to cancel current buying decisions and sit back and wait, then that's a good time to shut up about it. > TI hyped [the TI89] to death for over 6 months before it hit the market, > then it was almost impossible to buy one for the first two months. I don't recall whether HP pre-announced the HP35, but I do remember that it quickly became so popular that it was also backordered for months; they definitely had a winner there, as they proudly I also remember that while waiting for mine to arrive, I had nothing but a cardboard cut-out from a marketing piece on which to develop my calculating procedures :) [it was non-programmable, of course] > If HP really has something fantastic to offer, they're the > first ones to try and get it to market as soon as possible. > Besides, don't you want HP to get it right? One delicate point here: How many are ready to dash out and buy ROM version A of this new product ? This is not exclusive to HP; the entire industry has for years been working so hard and fast that the first versions of many things are faulty [e.g. Pentium processors] or very quickly obsoleted (early versions of many things, including HP18C, HP28C, HP28S ?) This technology race has simultaneously cast some jaundiced eyes toward products that cost a bundle but won't be good for long. Businesses with plenty of cash can keep depreciating and buying new stuff, but what about the student market? If the product is cheap enough and appealing enough, I suppose it can fly; if it's costly and not dramatically cool, what then ? > If HP can't make a new machine to beat the TI-89, > they might as well get out of the calculator business. Are they actually still in that business? Have many educators know about it? I wish them good luck, however, if they're still at it. --- With best wishes from: John H Meyers === Subject: Re: Future of RPL & Assembly > > While most of the speculation about the successor to the HP48 focuses on > things like processor speed, screen size, etc...it seems to me that that most > important question is 'What will the new programming environment be?' > > For starters, if the rumors of a different processor are true, then we face > the prospect of learning a whole new assembly language. Also, what changes I think that depends. Sometimes the differences between assemblies are pronounced, such as x86 and Saturn. However, generally, assembly languages are quite similar. > will be made to SysRPL? Would it be unchanged, an upgrade like VC++5.0 to > 6.0, or a total reworking like C to C++? VC++5.0 and 6.0 is primarily compiler enhancements, not language changes...right? Or maybe it had something to do with STL? I couldn't say. C++ isn't exactly a total reworking of c... If you know c, its not particularly difficult to pick up c++. By the way, I hope HP implements c++ or maybe java into the HP48 in addition to RPL. RPL is a good language, but I have to admit RPL isn't always the best language to work with. For smaller programs it is VERY fast, but for large complex programs, I'd prefer some other language, such as c++. Perhaps c++ isn't completely practical for a calculator, but I don't think Java is too far off the wall...afterall isn't Java's motto write once, run everywhere or something like that? -Jim === Subject: Re: Future of RPL & Assembly >Perhaps c++ isn't >completely practical for a calculator, but I don't think Java is too far >off the wall...afterall isn't Java's motto write once, run everywhere or >something like that? > A calculator based on Java - VERY cool idea! It'd be a great way to justify the time learning to program the calc - It's job training! Something like that could pry my 48GX from my hands without them being cold and stiff. The problem is, if the calc was based on Java, wouldn't it be easy to rip out the ROMs and have the complete new HP running on (per the slogan) everything? Michael === Subject: Re: Future of RPL & Assembly > For starters, if the rumors of a different processor are true, then we face > the prospect of learning a whole new assembly language. Also, what changes Well, I know several assembly languages. Once you have learnt one, learning another one is not difficult. > will be made to SysRPL? Would it be unchanged, an upgrade like VC++5.0 to > 6.0, or a total reworking like C to C++? C++ added several things to C, but most C programs compile fine with a C++ compiler. If SysRPL is kept, the major difference may be the size of the pointers, which are 20 bits on the 48, but would surely become a multiple of 8 bits. The adresses would then also change, but I don't see any reason why the base concept (as described in rplman.doc) would change. > I think secretiveness on this matter is not beneficial to HP or to users. The > purpose of industrial secrecy is to prevent competitors from 'scooping' your > product. But within the market niche of the HP48, there are no competitors. Well, It's no use telling the users what the calculator will look like if they don't know themselves. I'm sure they are most concerned about user features (color/b&w/gray LCD, memory, power consumtion) than the programming language. > Everyone would be better served in this case if HP were to follow the lead in > Intel and keep the public informed of the direction of development so that we Ha, Intel *never* told the public what they were doing. They did all their best to hide informations, especially with Appendix H. If you want the whole story, try http://www.x86.org T.A. P.S: If you reply, please also reply by mail, removing the 'tztz' in my adress. === Subject: Ingenieros de BILBAO Me gustaria saber si en este grupo hay mas gente de ingenieros de Bilbao, y si es asi ver sus paginas,... y crear alguna p.87gina especifica de nuestra escuela. === Subject: Complile C-->RPL? Distribution: inet Is there any program to compile C language to HP's RPL language, or any other that can work on the HP48GX? If it exist, can you send it to _________________________________________ / T'ha escrit en Marc. | Te ha esrito Marc. | | You've been writen by Marc. | | si05614@salleurl.edu | | albinete@hotmail.com | | www.salleurl.edu/~si05614 | _________________________________________/ / / / / -(oo)- ->my mascot. ][ === Subject: Help about emulators for HP48 Is there an emulator of Motorola MC68000 for hp48? i've searched hp48.ml.org, but i haven't found it thanx for help and excuse me for my bad english :-) === Subject: questions over Jazz JA> Jazz is an assembler, not a breaklib program. Therefore you will JA> have to use some other tools like: JA> LIBEX, or Mika's HACK. JA> Unfortunately, you must install the library you want to break JA> before you can work on it. This is not true for all library splitters. The splitter from Mika's Hack library takes a lib as argument (it doesn't have to be installed) and breaks it. LIBEX takes the number of an installed lib and breaks it. cu Balazs Fischer Balazs.Fischer@studbox.uni-stuttgart.de PGP Key: http://pgp5.ai.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xED7447E5 Fingerprint: 8F EF C0 BA 22 B4 15 B3 56 27 07 04 37 7B D6 00 Encrypted mail preferred ... Don't say during sex: Hurry up! This room rents by the Hour! === Subject: Re: questions over Jazz =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=2C?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_mer=E7i?= > Just have a look on the Library structure and you will see at the beginning > an offset to the config object, from which you can easily find the config > object. Where is that information? I have not found at hpcalc how is a lib inside of it. I have no information about HP's data, I mean: I don't know what is inside a lib, except commands stored into something with a CRC at the other end. Where is information about Jazz entry points? There are a lot when I do use EC to see some, but I don't know or understand 99 % of it. I have searched for one week, at hpcalc and in other places, info about the HP pointers, those stored by 8xxxx and I didn't found. -Gilb- 00 E2 22 76 58 1F 72 BA EA 94 78 F3 A2 63 E0 94 === Subject: Re: questions over Jazz > Where is information about Jazz entry points? > There are a lot when I do use EC to see some, > but I don't know or understand 99 % of it. The information is not about Jazz itself, but about the HP48 internal operating system; Mika's own compilation of very useful information about system functions can be found at: Space does not permit listing the dozens of other files about this > I have searched for one week, at hpcalc and in other places, > info about the HP pointers, those stored by 8xxxx and I didn't found. RPL pointers are discussed within the first few pages of a section titled PART 2: MACHINE LANGUAGE in the same file. What particular type of information are you actually seeking, however, and for what goal? This is the fundamental omission in posted questions (and complaints) which I see every day, in which the writer just leaves out any mention of what (s)he really wants to do, so that to some extent the person who would be glad to help is just left guessing at what sort of information or help might be useful! Even if it should be way back there, earlier in the thread, for example, a one-line recapitulation of what it's all about would help set the stage properly, for anyone who arrives in the middle of a discussion. I am often perplexed by such answers that appear without any reference to a question; perhaps it's just my limited attention span, but for the sake of other people who may be similarly afflicted, I always try to put every current post into perspective, and I would love to know how to encourage everyone to do the same. --- With best wishes from: John H Meyers === Subject: Re: questions over Jazz <366219fb.0@isoit370.bbn.hp.com> <1djavnw.1hr2ocq10vd780N@tntrasp20-212.abo.wanadoo.frWhere is information about Jazz entry points? There are a lot when I do >use EC to see some, but I don't know or understand 99 % of it. 1. http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/ Low left corner, entries sorted by subject and by address. 2. http://www.hpcalc.org/docs/programming/ a) Library File Format c) RPLMan from Goodies Disk 4 d) SASM Docs e) Saturn Processor Reference 1.0 f) Programming in System RPL -- --- --> Mika Heiskanen mheiskan@gamma.hut.fi http://www.hut.fi/~mheiskan === Subject: Programing... and protecting what I do? Distribution: inet Does anybody know how can I protect the programs that I do. i've heard that some programs change the vars and the other commands for something like EXTERNAL but I'm not quite sure. If anybody wants a C compiler for programing in C and compiling to RPL, I can send them via E-mail. See ya!!! ************************************************************************* * Francesc Esplugas i Mart.92 * * * si05772@salleurl.edu * * * madferit@lettera.net * * * frankie@lettera.net * * ************************************************************************* === Subject: civil engineer programs? hi all i just bought a hp 48 gx calculator and i am looking for civil engineering programs any1 can help me? mail me at mavra@egnatia.ee.auth.gr === Subject: Re: civil engineer programs? On Mon, 30 Nov 1998 17:52:10 +0200, mavra i just bought a hp 48 gx calculator and i am looking for civil engineering >programs >any1 can help me? >mail me at mavra@egnatia.ee.auth.gr Have a look in my home page ! Saluti da Fabry ! **************************************************************************** ***** f.galia@studenti.to.it ICQ: 13397767 http://www.poli.studenti.to.it/~f.galia --> civil engineering, hp48gx, umorismo === Subject: Program for the azimut??? Or give me an easy exemple how to use if else,... Do you know how to make a program for the azimut. I've got problems with if else end,.... === Subject: Cubic Regressions on the HP48 Is it possible to do Cubic or Quartic regressions on the HP. In STAT, FITDATA, there are linear and quadratic regressions, but I need Cubic. I know the TI's can do it. That's what the rest of my class has. I am trying to defend the HP, but this would be a real bummer if it can't do it. Please help. If there is an additional program to do it, I would be open to that as well. === Subject: Re: Cubic Regressions on the HP48 > Is it possible to do Cubic or Quartic regressions on the HP48? See PREGR, a program by Dennis York of HP, which may be found on Joe Horn's Goodies Disk #11; apparently this program also plots the results and computes predicted values in either direction, even though reverse prediction [of x from known y] is statistically unsound, just as it is for the already built-in fit data functions. Visit www.hpcalc.org to find and download all HP48 software, including even software written in parallel universes :) > I know the TI's can do it. That's what the rest of my class has. > I am trying to defend the HP, but this would be a real bummer > if it can't do it. The standard refrain nowadays is TI can do it, why can't HP?; most of the time, it turns out that HP *can* also do it, but possibly via a small program which many HP owners don't know about. Well, sometimes not so small :) A new version of the good old HP48, with built-in extra *ROM* ports that already contain the best of the catch up with TI software, would be an interesting product, no? It would be at least as without adding any inbuilt extra functionality. --- With best wishes from: John H Meyers === Subject: Re: Cubic Regressions on the HP48 Keep asking. Yes there is stuff like that. Think there is something on Horn's disk. You'll probably get a reply from someone on a specific program which will handle different degrees of fit. >Is it possible to do Cubic or Quartic regressions on the HP. In STAT, >FITDATA, there are linear and quadratic regressions, but I need Cubic. I >know the TI's can do it. That's what the rest of my class has. I am >trying to defend the HP, but this would be a real bummer if it can't do >it. Please help. If there is an additional program to do it, I would be >open to that as well. > === Subject: Re: Cubic Regressions on the HP48 >Keep asking. Yes there is stuff like that. Think there is something on >Horn's disk. You'll probably get a reply from someone on a specific program which will >handle different degrees of fit. There are several programs to fit polynomial. In most of them you can specify the order you want to fit too. I use sometimes PREGR which you can find at the HP48 Software Archive (math section - I'm not sure which subsection there) Find your best fit there ;-) Peter E-Mail: karpfenteich@gmx.de _______________________________ Do you know the great Frequently Asked Questions? http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/ and the superb HP48 Software Archive? http://www.hpcalc.org to look for *old* HP48 postings see http://www.dejanews.com === Subject: looking for 48g+ I will need to get one withuing a week or so, december 12 at latest, or i will just buy one from a company, however, i woyuld prefer to buy a used one, if anyone out there has a used 48g+, or 48gx, let me know. === Subject: Next generation HP? I have an HP 48GX that I bought a year ago and I love it. But, has anyone out there has heard any rumors of HP putting out a new graphing calculator in the near future? Correct me if i'm wrong, but it's my understanding that even the GX came out years ago, maybe as early as '93? The HP Calculator webpage has no info of such an event on the horizon. Just curious, cuz 4 Mhz JDog the Rocket Scientist Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: Next generation HP? Nor will they. It is suicidal for any manufacturer to advertise a 'future' product until that product is ready to ship. The moment HP announces anything about a new calculator, sales of the 48GX will come to a screeching halt. Ask Adam Osborne about that mistake - he made it famous with the Osborne 1 Brian Denley > I have an HP 48GX that I bought a year ago and I love it. But, has anyone >out there has heard any rumors of HP putting out a new graphing calculator in >the near future? Correct me if i'm wrong, but it's my understanding that >even the GX came out years ago, maybe as early as '93? The HP Calculator >webpage has no info of such an event on the horizon. Just curious, cuz 4 Mhz JDog the Rocket Scientist Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: Next generation HP? > Nor will they. It is suicidal for any manufacturer to advertise a 'future' > product until that product is ready to ship. It seems that TI doesn't subscribe to that line of thinking... -- Aaron. === Subject: Re: Next generation HP? Has TI advertised what their next calculator will be? Brian > Nor will they. It is suicidal for any manufacturer to advertise a 'future' >> product until that product is ready to ship. It seems that TI doesn't subscribe to that line of thinking... -- >Aaron. > === Subject: Re: Next generation HP? TI just recently started selling the TI-89 (Sept 98), so they're some ways from having a new calculator ready. TI usually announces new calculators about 6 mos in advance. Sometimes more, and there have been at least one that they never did sell. This strategy makes sense when you are not the technological leader - such as IBM with the System 360 Model 91 to compete with the Control Data 6600. IBM pulled them back, but managed to convince some customers to hold off bying CDC 6600's, and later bought IBM machines anyways. CDC sued, yelling that it was an unfair sales tactic, and won (although it was some 7-10 years later). John Edry Has TI advertised what their next calculator will be? >Brian >> Nor will they. It is suicidal for any manufacturer to advertise a >'future' >>> product until that product is ready to ship. >>It seems that TI doesn't subscribe to that line of thinking... >>-- >>Aaron. === Subject: text help I'm sorry in advance for asking such a stupid and obvious question but.... How would I go about transfering a text file from my computer to my 48g (using hp48 explorer) and reading that text on the calculator? all I really want to do is to type stuff in on my computer and be able to read it on my calculator. are there any programs that I need? are there any programs that Dave === Subject: Re: text help transferring a text file to the HP48 is covered in the manual. If there's a poblem, try the FAQ from A. Schoorl. There a are some fast text viewers for use on the HP48. They can be found on http://www.hpcalc.org under text editors and viewers. Hope this helps Raymond Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germany.net === Subject: Future of SysRPL I have seen a lot of speculation about the follow-up to the HP48. Most of it concerns physical things like processor speed or screen size. That seems to be entirely missing the most important aspect of the upgrade. The number one question should be 'How will programming for it be different from for the HP48?' Consider that there very likely will be a different processor. That means programmers will have to learn an entirely new assembly language. Also, it seems likely that there will be some modification of SysRPL, but we don't know if it will be an incremental change, like from VC++5.0 to 6.0, or a paradigm shift, like from C to C++. I think HP's secrecy in this matter is detrimental to all concerned. The purpose of industrial secrecy is the prevent competitors from 'scooping' your technology. But within the HP48's market niche, there are no competitors! Also, unlike with other calculators, HP48 users rely heavily on third party software. In that sense, the HP48 market is more like the personal computer market. The interests of HP, the developers, and the users would be best served if HP would keep the public informed of the direction of new developments, as does Intel. Anyone care to comment? http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: lib structure =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=2C?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_mer=E7i?= I'm writing a tool using ML that takes a lib as argument, and pushes on the stack a string, with each lib's command, and its size. Like: I don't know how is a lib's structure inside. I need to read the lib, and find each command's start address, and search for its end (or read its length, if it's coded too) and put in my output string the name of the command, and the size found. -Gilb- 00 E2 22 76 58 1F 72 BA EA 94 78 F3 A2 63 E0 94 === Subject: Re: lib structure Library: Prologue 5 nibbles = 02B40 lenght without prologe 5 nibbles Number Characters first name 2 nibbles char 1 name library 2 .... char n name library 2 Lib number 3 nibbles offset to HASH TABLE 5 offset message 5 offset Link 5 offset config 5 HASH TABLE MESSAGE ARRAY LINK TABLE Type Xlib1 1 or 3 Number of lib of Xlib1 3 Number of command of Xlib1 3 Object(s) Xlib1 .... Type Xlibn Idem bye > > I'm writing a tool using ML that takes a lib as argument, and pushes on > the stack a string, with each lib's command, and its size. Like: > > I don't know how is a lib's structure inside. I need to read the lib, > and find each command's start address, and search for its end (or read > its length, if it's coded too) and put in my output string the name of > the command, and the size found. > > > -Gilb- > 00 E2 22 76 58 1F 72 BA EA 94 78 F3 A2 63 E0 94 > > ~+ . . * ^ * + Saturn: More than a simply CPU? ' | () .-.,=``=. - o - Of course, it's a planet! '=/_ | * | '=._ | `=./`, ' . '=.__.=' `=' * + + O * ' . === Subject: Re: lib structure have you tried the <-LIB-> package ? There's a command inside which does what you want;-) It's name is LIBp. <-LIB-> can be found at hpcalc.org , of course. You can rewrite it in ML, although I think it's fast enough.. Raymond Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germany.net === Subject: Re: lib structure =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=2C?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_mer=E7i?= > have you tried the <-LIB-> package ? > There's a command inside which does what you want;-) > It's name is LIBp. I don't care if there is already something that does it. I'm learning ML and HP's objects structure. It's not by using tools that do what I want that I will learn. Like, an empty lib of number 600 gives that: 04B20 Prologue 22000 Size 00852 #258h = 600 0000000000000000000 ? 030A9 CRC (I kept all data reversed) And if I give it a name of 4 characters, like Vide (which means Empty in french) I get that: 04B20 Prologue C2000 Size 40 #04 = lib's name size 65964656 The name 04 #04 = lib's name size 00000000000000 ? 0BCEC CRC I have looked into MAKEROM.DOC and the lib structure is not explained, but there is something about a hash thing. Then, I looked into USRLIB.DOC, but it only explains the $var things to use. I have finally searched into RPLMAN.DOC, and a lot of objects are described, but not the library one. Besides being a very interesting file, nothing in there. Can someone tell me how is a lib inside? I would love some text and simple diagrams; I love reading hex bins.. -Gilb- 00 E2 22 76 58 1F 72 BA EA 94 78 F3 A2 63 E0 94 === Subject: Re: lib structure This is a copy of a posting by Mika Heiskanen : /-- copy start ---/ Library Format The library data starts with a header containing 1. Library prolog 2. Library size field 3. Title 4. Library number 5. Link to optional hash table 6. Link to optional message table 7. Link to optional link table 8. Link to optional configuration object Next comes the main body of the library, containing all the programs in the library. The optional objects pointed to in the header are also contained in this part. Depending on how the library was built these optional objects can be in various positions (in any position when the library is explicitly created), but usually either at the start or the end of the main body. Last comes a four nibble CRC, which is a checksum for all the data between the prolog and the CRC itself. Note in particular that the prolog itself is not included in the CRC. The explicit form of the main parts is ASSEMBLE CON(5) =DOLIB REL(5) EndOfLibrary CON(2) title_chars NIBASC 'title' or CON(2) 0 if there is no title CON(2) title_chars / CON(3) romid REL(5) hash_table REL(5) mesg_table or 0 if the object does not exist REL(5) link_table REL(5) conf_object / NIBHEX ... main body CON(4) CRC filled in by linker or special program EndOfLibrary RPL Details to note are: o The title length may be indicated once or twice, depending on the title length itself. This means one must usually use conditional code to skip the title, I myself call the respective (unsupported) ROM subroutines: =TRAVERSE+ EQU #8400 skip title forwards =TRAVERSE- EQU #841E skip title backwards C=0 A o A zero link field indicates the respective object and all properties implied therein are not in use. This does not necessarily imply the respective object does not exist, as can be wittnessed by simply changing an existing library with a nonzero link. o The pointee of the link can be outside of the library itself as indicated by the address range specified by the address of the prolog and the size field of the prolog iff the library is compiled to a fixed address. This is done for some of the internal libraries to save precious uncovered ROM space (SX). o If the pointee in a S/SX is a system binary, the value of the binary implies the true address of the respective object. o If the pointee in a G/GX is an access pointer, the address part and access parts indicate the true address and port of the respective object, respectively (uh). The message table is expected to be a 1-dimensional array of strings. The error numbers of the messages is formed by multiplying the library number by 256 and adding the array index to that. This number is expected to take 5 nibbles, meaning one shouldn't have more than 255 error messages. The link table is expected to be a hex string, whose body contains links to the objects in the main body. Any object which is to be accessed by ROMPTR calls must be in this library in order to be found. As can be deduced from the following example, the number of accessible commands in a library can in principle be calculated by dividing the size field by 5 and substracting 1. However some people seem to think this makes a nice protection against splitting a library, and thus poke a very large value over the true size field. This makes many library splitters think there are more links than there truly are, and thus the splitter will end up trying to extract objects from wherever the data after the true body ends points to, usually resulting in a crash. ASSEMBLE LinkTab CON(5) =DOHSTR REL(5) EndOfLinks REL(5) Command1 REL(5) Command2 ... REL(5) CommandN EndOfLinks RPL The hash table is expected to be a hex string, whose body contains a o forward link table based on the length of a name o collection of name length-name-command number triplets o backward link table indexed by command number The number of forward links is 16, indicating the maximum size of a command name. The number of backward links can be smaller than the number of commands, which implies all the remaining links are interpreted to be zero, which in turn implies the command has no name. Whenever the internal compiler encounters a name it does not recognize it traverses the current path. For each library attached to the directories in the current path it checks if the respective library has a hash table, and for those that do it checks whether the respective forward link for the known length of the name is nonzero. If so it jumps forward to that address, and starts comparing the name against the name length-name parts of the triplets. If a match is found then the compiler forms a ROMPTR object from the known library number (attached to directory) and command number (third slot in the matching triplet). The outer loop continues until a match is found, or all attached libraries in the current path have been checked, in which case the compiler decides the name is a global identifier. Whenever the internal decompiler encounters a ROMPTR, it traverses the internal ROMPTAB containing the library numbers and addresses of each library. For each library it checks for a hash table, then skips to the backward link part, then to the link for the known index. If this link exists (e.g. its calculated address is before the known end of the hex string) and the link is nonzero, the decompiler jumps backwards to the triplet it points to, and forms a string from the name length-name pair. The compiler is used for example when typing DUP on the command line, the decompiler when typing { DUP } and the stack displays the list. DUP is simply a command in the internal library number 2. ASSEMBLE HashTab CON(5) =DOHSTR REL(5) EndHashTab REL(5) Triplets1 REL(5) Triplets2 0, if no names of the given size ... exist REL(5) Triplets16 / REL(5) backlinks offset past the triplets CON(2) characters NIBASC 'name' triplets in no particular order CON(3) command number / ... backlinks CON(5) (*)-(triplet1) *postive* backward offset to the triplet for command number 1 ... a zero indicates no name for command CON(5) (*)-(tripletN) last command which has a name (or we could also have zero links) EndHashTab RPL The library menu displayer assumes that all user level commands have lower command numbers than the smallest command number for the internal subroutines. Since internal subroutines are not expected to have names in the name table, the menu displayer will assume it is supposed to display names from the hash table until no name is found. This can mean the end of the hash table, or a zero link in the backward links. Some programs utilize this to give 'hidden' commands by putting a dummy command with no name at a specific position in the link table (e.g. with a given command number). Any user level command with a command number higher than the dummy's will not be displayed in the menu, but since the compiler uses only the forward link part it will find the names of these hidden commands, and since the decompiler jumps directly to the indexed backward link it too will find the names of the hidden commands. The difference comes from trying to find a specific triplet vs. traversing the triplets in the order of command numbers. Aside from the above tables, the main body usually contains only valid objects, although any data can be put in the main body. A program in the main body is considered a user level command if o It is a pointee in the link table o It has a triplet in the hash table o It has property flags and the main body of the respective ROMPTR stored in front of it. o Is followed by pointers or objects implied by the preceding property flags. If any of above is not true, any attempt to interpret the program as a user level command may result in unexpected behaviour. Storing the body of the respective ROMPTR in front of the program serves to give quick access to the respective library and command numbers (as opposed to searching all library link tables for a match) so that the expected CK type command at the start of the program can save the library and command numbers as the 'current command'. This information is then used to construct informative error messages (the name of the command causing the error). The property flags in front of the 6-nibble header indicate, as expected, what properties the command has. This allows easy and flexible addition of new commands without having to reprogram any function using these properties. The property flags and the respective objects expected after the body of the command are explained in more detail in the entries.srt document. A simple example is that a library with a command number less than 1792 (#700h) and with a property flag field 8 is interpreted to be a regular command with no properties, and with a 3-nibble zero property field to be a regular function with no properties. Higher library numbers indicate macro properties and are rarely used (alternative IF-THEN-ELSE-END constructs etc). /-- copy end -----/ For more info on the 'property field' see the entries.srt file, also by Mika. If YOU are able to sort it all out, please tell us! I never got further than the standard CON(1) 8 property field. -- Werner Huysegoms remove the x before replying http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Which calculator? I need a new calculator. I was considering the TI89, or one of the HP48s. I need something that will express equations symbolically, and in terms of variables. I also need it to be as user friendly as possible. The big problem is that I learned on a TI. When I was playing around with one of the HPs today I couldn't even figure out how to do some of the most basic things. Any opinions and or sugestios would be welcom. -Chris === Subject: Re: Which calculator? > I need a new calculator. I was considering the TI89, or one of the HP48s. I > need something that will express equations symbolically, and in terms of > variables. I also need it to be as user friendly as possible. The big > problem is that I learned on a TI. When I was playing around with one of > the HPs today I couldn't even figure out how to do some of the most basic > things. Any opinions and or sugestios would be welcom. > -Chris > You learned on the TI that's way it's easier. I also learned on a algebraic type calculator, but now sense I use the hp a lot more I found that I couldn't ever go back to the algebraic type. I now think that it's easier to use RPN. Not just in the graphic calculators either, I recently purchased the hp32sII because it has RPN instead of the TI's algebraic method. As far as symbolics, with the programs that I downloaded from the internet, my hpgx is now just as powerful if not more powerful than the TI92. I know once you start using the hp you will find that it is the best way to calcute any number. When I play around with the TI's I have trouble, not with the hp's. The hp's also have big following on the internet, where you can get free software and a lot of help, this group for one. When ever I have a problem using my hp I can always get an answer right here. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: Re: Which calculator? Hal> I need a new calculator. I was considering the TI89, or one of Hal> the HP48s. I need something that will express equations Hal> symbolically, and in terms of variables. I also need it to be as Hal> user friendly as possible. The big problem is that I learned on a Hal> TI. When I was playing around with one of the HPs today I Hal> couldn't even figure out how to do some of the most basic Hal> things. Any opinions and or sugestios would be welcom. -Chris I think you should go for the TI-89. Especially if user friendly is important to you -- a HP will have a steep learning curve. HPs are great for engineering type numerical calculations, and if you get Erable, EqStack/Java or some of the other addins they are pretty competitive for symbolics. However, easy to use they ain't. If I haven't done a particular type of calculation for a while, I find myself consulting the manual. With the TI-92/TI-89 history mechanism, infix notation suddenly becomes more useful than RPN in my opinion. With HP's RPN it is impossible to recall past operations because only results are on the stack. Obviously you can define functions or write programs. For example, on my TI-92 I can have 3*x^2+2*y 3*x^3+2*y^4 Then I decide that I want to change the first equation to 3*x^2+2*z. On the TI I can just cursor up in the history to recall that calculation. It is all very natural on the TI because the TI always uses infix. There is no way to do this on the HP using RPN because the stack only holds results: 3 x SQR * 2 y * + becomes a numeric value if x and y are defined and the SQR * and + operations are lost. Yes you can leave '3*x^2+2*y' on the HP stack, but infix notation is extra work and you'd have to remember to DUP all the time before you eval. The advantages of RPN are lost when you use quoted infix -- when you do symbolic work on the HP you generally use infix directly. If you need to do sophisticated symbolic work, I would recommend purchasing Mathematica which makes both the TI and HP look quite primitive. -Kevin === Subject: Re: Which calculator? a good way could be working through some of the examples given in the manuals of the HP48, so you may get a feeling for the user interface and how to use it. Another source of information could be the FAQ by A. Schoorl. You will see that, after a short period, it's very easy to use;-) It's different from other user interfces for calculators, but it's worth giving a try. Raymond Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germany.net === Subject: saturn-mode for emacs The following elisp performs the following tasks: 1. Removes asm-mode from auto-mode-alist. This because it is traditional to use .s for SRPL source files. 2. Defines a new interactive function called fyslab-font-lock. The command merely redefines various font-lock attributes, most importantly the colours. However, the new colours work best on pale backgrounds. IMHO the default font-lock colours suck. 3. Defines saturn-mode, which defines the font-lock regexps for system RPL and Saturn assembly. 4. Adds saturn-mode to auto-mode-alist. To use the elisp simply add it to the end of your .emacs (or _emacs). Note that I personally prefer to use the colours in all modes, mainly because the colours actually don't suck in all modes anymore. There are some obvious problems with the regular expressions, most notably the colorization is used in comments too. There are also some problems with precedence. However, I do not have sufficient knowledge of either elisp or regexps to know how to fix either. If somebody does know how to fix the problems, please post the fixes for others to enjoy. Summary of colorization: Keywords: #1+_ONE_DO DUP#0_DO toLEN_DO ZERO_DO ONE_DO DO NOT_WHILE DUP#0<>WHILE WHILE NOT_UNTIL #0=UNTIL UNTIL BEGIN AGAIN REPEAT DROPLOOP SWAPLOOP STOPLOOP +LOOP LOOP ERRSET ERRTRAP CODE ENDCODE ASSEMBLE RPL 1GETABND ABND CACHE DUMP 1ABNDSWAP CK&DISPATCH0 CK&DISPATCH1 CK1&Dispatch ... CK5&Dispatch Comments: ( comment ) * [-=* #]+ comment ( I do use f.ex. * ------ ... ) Labels etc: xROMID xxx ROMID xxx DEFINE label xxx LABEL label LOCALLABEL label EXTERNAL label LOCAL label {{ }} Assembly language: label EQU xxx label ABS xxx ABASE xxx label ALLOC xxx label REL xxx =label STITLE text MESSAGE text INCLUDE filename RDSYMB filename CHARMAP filename SETFLAG flagname CLRFLAG flagname label IF label IFANYCARRY label IFCARRYCLR label IFCARRYSET label IFNDEF label IFDEF label IFEQ label IFGE label IFGT label IFLE label IFLT label IFNE label IFNEG label IFNOPC label IFOPC label IFNZ label IFPASS1 label IFPASS2 label IFPOS label IFREACHED label IFZER label ELSE label ENDIF label MACRO EXITM label ENDM With warning-face (bright red): [ignored] BUG text [whitespace] END --- CLIP --- CLIP --- CLIP --- CLIP --- ; Remove asm-mode, it interferes with Saturn code ; There must be an easier way to do this.. (defvar blah auto-mode-alist) (setq auto-mode-alist ()) (while blah (if (not (eq (cdr (car blah)) 'asm-mode)) (setq auto-mode-alist (append auto-mode-alist (list (car blah))))) (setq blah (cdr blah))) ; ; FYSLAB font-lock settings - suitable only for pale color backgrounds ; such as white and #F0E0C0 ; ; Note: face arguments: foreground,background,boldp,italicp,underlinep (defun fyslab-font-lock() (interactive) (setq font-lock-maximum-size nil) (setq font-lock-maximum-decoration '((latex-mode 2) (t nil))) (setq font-lock-face-attributes '((font-lock-comment-face Firebrick) (font-lock-string-face Sienna) (font-lock-keyword-face ForestGreen nil t) (font-lock-builtin-face Orchid) (font-lock-function-name-face Blue nil t) (font-lock-variable-name-face Purple nil t) (font-lock-type-face BlueViolet nil t) (font-lock-reference-face MediumBlue) (font-lock-warning-face Red nil t))) (turn-on-font-lock)) (fyslab-font-lock) (global-font-lock-mode t) ; ; Saturn editing mode ; (defun saturn-mode() (interactive) (setq saturn-font-lock-keywords '(t (( [^)]+ ) (0 font-lock-comment-face)) (^*[*+ =#-]* (0 font-lock-comment-face)) ([ tn]((#1+_ONE|DUP#0|toLEN|ZERO|ONE)?_?DO |BEGIN|(NOT_|DUP#0<>)?WHILE|(NOT_|#0=)?UNTI L|AGAIN|REPEAT|(DROP|SWAP|STOP|+)?LOOP |ERR(SET|TRAP))> (0 font-lock-keyword-face nil)) (<((END)?CODE|ASSEMBLE|RPL)> (0 font-lock-keyword-face nil)) (0 font-lock-keyword-face t)) (({{|}}) (0 font-lock-keyword-face)) (<(CK&DISPATCH(0|1)|CK(0|1|2|3| 4|5)&Dispatch)> (0 font-lock-keyword-face)) (^=?([^ tn]+)[ t]+(=[ tn]+|(EQU|=|AB(S|ASE)|ALLOC|REL) >) (1 font-lock-variable-name-face nil) (2 font-lock-keyword-face nil)) (^=([^ tn]+) (0 font-lock-function-name-face nil)) (<(S?TITLE|MESSAGE)>[ t]*([^n]*) (1 font-lock-keyword-face nil) (2 font-lock-string-face nil)) (<(INCLUDE|RDSYMB|CHARMAP|SETFLAG|CLRFLAG)> [ t]*([^ tn]*) (1 font-lock-keyword-face nil) (2 font-lock-variable-name-face nil)) (<(x?ROMID)>[ t]*([^ tn]*) (1 font-lock-keyword-face nil) (2 font-lock-constant-face nil)) (1 font-lock-keyword-face nil) (2 font-lock-function-name-face nil)) (^([^ tn]*)[ t]+(IF(ANYCARRY|CARRY(CLR|SET)|N?DEF|EQ |(G|L)(E|T)|NEG?|N?OPC|NZ|PASS(1 |2)|POS|REACHED|ZER)?|ELSE|ENDIF)> (1 font-lock-function-name-face nil) (2 font-lock-keyword-face nil)) (^([^ tn]+)[ t]*(MACRO|ENDM|EXITM)> (1 font-lock-function-name-face nil) (2 font-lock-keyword-face nil)) ( (0 font-lock-warning-face)) )) (setq font-lock-defaults '(saturn-font-lock-keywords nil t)) (font-lock-mode) ) (setq auto-mode-alist (append (list '(.s' . saturn-mode)) auto-mode-alist)) --- CLIP --- CLIP --- CLIP --- CLIP --- -- --- --> Mika Heiskanen mheiskan@gamma.hut.fi http://www.hut.fi/~mheiskan === Subject: Re: Help: Trouble assembling JAZZ library ok, the problem is the lack of use of makerom. I can not send attachments with DejaNews, so i put the few changes here as plain text; I am not confirmed with DOS batch files, so i made a dirty fix to work. mass generates __tmp.a and __build.mn everytime it runs, so you only have to change mass. Here you have to change three files, if you make changes in version an library title. ----mass.bat---- rplcomp jazz __jazz.a __jazz.ext makerom __build.mn __build.m sasm -EH __tmp mv __tmp.l __listing mv __tmp.o lib lbcrc lib ----end of mass.bat ----__tmp.a NIBASC /HPHP48-X/ INCLUDE SupRomEntr.a INCLUDE __head.a SETLIST INCLUDE INCLUDE __jazz.a CLRLIST INCLUDE INCLUDE __hash.a INCLUDE __end.a end of __tmp.a------ __build.mn TITLE Jazz Library OUTPUT __xx.o LLIST __xx.lr CONFIGURE xxCONFIG MESSAGE xxMESSAGE ROMPHEAD __head.a REL __jazz.o TABLE __hash.a FINISH __end.a END --end of __build.mn------ cu, Jens >I would like to assemble a middle-weight version of Jazz 6.6, >which would contain all the normal Jazz 6.6 commands except for >the entry table manipulation commands, namely: EA >RTAB >DTAB >RTB-->RTB >->DTB So I downloaded the Jazz 6.6 sources zip from Mika's page, with >the intent to assemble my own version using the GNU Tools 2.1.9 >on my Win95 PC. Here's where things get strange: with _no_ changes to any of the >source files, I attempted to assemble Jazz 6.6 (as a test run; if >everything was working properly, the output file should be an exact >duplicate of the Jazz library file). The output file was slightly different in size (by only 609 bytes), >but more importantly it caused my calc to lock into the WS-splash >(i.e., endless warmstart cycle), so obviously I did something wrong! Here's what I did, exactly: 1. Unzip the jsrc66.zip file to the directory C:Program Filesgtools > [ The subdirectory structure of the .zip file was preserved ] >2. Using Joe Horn's make.bat file (which has always worked w/ the > HPTOOLS & GNU Tools in the past), I did: C:Program Filesgtoolssrc> make jazz 3. Wait for about 2 minutes; output file was called jazz. There were > no warnings or error messages during the process. >if not exist %1.s exit >rplcomp %1.s %1.a >if exist %1 del %1 >sasm -N %1 >echo SE ENTRIES.o > %1.m >echo RE %1.o >> %1.m >sload -H -N -o %1 %1.m >for %%f in (%1.a %1.m %1.o) do del %%f So, what am I doing wrong? It must be some simple switch or omission >on my part; the files are very close in size on PC: jazz.lib (As distributed in jazzv66.zip) 71,946 > jazz (As assembled by me :( 71,337 TIA, > katz > -- > The email address shown in the header of this message has been > modified to thwart spammers. To reply, please send message to: > jmkatz-72 at worldnet dot att dot net ( at=@ dot=. ) http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: HP 48SX MANUAL I have inherited a hp 48sx from my brother. Unfortunately with no manual. Is there any other place on the net where a manual exists or where the basic functions of this machine can be found? === Subject: ÁGracias, Mario! Gracias, Mario... En nombre de todos los usuarios de HP hispanoparlantes, un mill.97n de gracias por haber dedicado tanto de tu tiempo a compartir con nosotros tus conocimientos sobre programaci.97n, desinteresadamente. Eres un pionero, Mario. Dios te bendiga. http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own === Subject: HP42s My boss is in need of some hp42s calculators and, as you all wil know, they aren't made anymore. My question is, does anyone of you accidently have a redundant hp42s for sale? (for about the price of a hp32s) === Subject: Re: HP42s Joris asks: ...ion is, does anyone of you accidently have a redundant hp42s for sale? (for about the price of a hp32s) :: o right...like there's ANYONE out there that's thinking... 'gee, i wish i could find someone to unload this loathsome HP42 on...i'd be willing to just GIVE it to someone for a dollar or two...' ??? !!! === Subject: Re: HP42s In message <19981202171438.11078.00001369@ng25.aol.com Joris asks: > ...ion is, does anyone of you accidently > have a redundant hp42s for sale? (for about the price of a hp32s) > :: o > > right...like there's ANYONE out there that's thinking... > 'gee, i wish i could find someone to unload this loathsome HP42 on...i'd be > willing to just GIVE it to someone for a dollar or two...' The problem is to find somebody who has this type of calculator and my boss i willing to pay for it, since he can earn money using them. I think there could be people around owning a machine like it and not using it, but not eager to go through the hassle of sending it to a complete stranger. That's why the earnable money could be a usefull stimulance. === Subject: Re: HP42s B5015F3DDE257AE2A6A20313 > My boss is in need of some hp42s calculators and, as you all wil know, > they aren't made anymore. My question is, does anyone of you accidently > have a redundant hp42s for sale? (for about the price of a hp32s) They are very hard to find today. They normally sell for over $200 if you can find them. I recently had a few extra ones which I sold for $200 each and I could have sold dozens more if only I had them. You might try ebay - they sometimes go on auction there. Jerry -- = Jerry Petrey - Consultant Software Engineer - Member Team Ada = = Lockheed Martin Member Team Forth = B5015F3DDE257AE2A6A20313
My boss is in need of some hp42s calculators and, as you all wil know,
they aren't made anymore. My question is, does anyone of you accidently
have a redundant hp42s for sale? (for about the price of a hp32s)
 They are very hard to find today.  They normally sell for over $200 if
you can find them.  I recently had a few extra ones which I sold for $200
each and I could have sold dozens more if only I had them.
You might try ebay - they sometimes go on auction there.

Jerry 

-- 
=  Jerry Petrey - Consultant Software Engineer  - Member Team 
Ada   =
=            &nb
sp;    Lockheed 
Martin            
;     Member Team Forth =
 
B5015F3DDE257AE2A6A20313--

===
Subject: FS: Brand New HP 48G
Bought a 48G over the weekend.
too complicated for me.
I wanted to return it but I lost the manual.
I was able to get a photocopied version.
Never used so Brand new.
looking for approx $90
bought it for $120
--
Enrico Ng 

===
Subject: Re: FS: Brand New HP 48G
Distribution: inet
I think i have an extra manual for Hp48  but it's in Spanish.....in the
other hand i cand change it to a friend to get an english version of it...
if you're still interested on return it, and want the manual write-me
 > Bought a 48G over the weekend.
> too complicated for me.
> I wanted to return it but I lost the manual.
> I was able to get a photocopied version.
> Never used so Brand new.
> 
> looking for approx $90
> 
> bought it for $120
> 
> --
> Enrico Ng  
> 
> 
> 
                 _______     ________    ________     __    __     
                /______   /_______  /_______   /_  /_   

               / / ___  /  / / ____  / / / ______/  / / /_/ / /  
              / / /_/ /  / / / / / / / / /_____  / / /__/ /   
             / / _____/  / / /_/ / /  /_____   / / / ____  /     
            / / /       / / /__/ /  /____/  / / / / / / /   
            /_/        /______ /   /_______/  /_/  /_/
         
       _______________________________________________________   
      /______________________________________________________
     / /                                                      /
    / / *  ICQ Number: 3149091                               /
   / / * IO.SYS file not found. (A)bort,(R)etiry,(P)anic.   /
  / / * Pilot virtual:   EC-LCV                            /
  /______________________________________________________/

===
Subject: Re: FS: Brand New HP 48G
>Bought a 48G over the weekend.
>too complicated for me.
>I wanted to return it but I lost the manual.
>I was able to get a photocopied version.
>Never used so Brand new.
looking for approx $90
bought it for $120
You lost a huge manual in a weekend?
But you were able to find one to photocopy?
$90? -- sells new around here for $99.

===
Subject: Re: FS: Brand New HP 48G
Where I am, you can buy a full-warranty 48G, with new manual, for around
$80.
>>Bought a 48G over the weekend.
>>too complicated for me.
>>I wanted to return it but I lost the manual.
>>I was able to get a photocopied version.
>>Never used so Brand new.
>>looking for approx $90
>>bought it for $120
You lost a huge manual in a weekend?
>But you were able to find one to photocopy?
>$90? -- sells new around here for $99.

===
Subject: Re: FS: Brand New HP 48G
huge manual?
its only about 1cm thick from what i can remeber.
I photocopied my friends manual.
and I said approx $90 which means within $10.
it is a brand new calculator anyways.
--
--
Enrico Ng 
WVHS Internet
http://www.ipsd.org/wvhs
>>Bought a 48G over the weekend.
>>too complicated for me.
>>I wanted to return it but I lost the manual.
>>I was able to get a photocopied version.
>>Never used so Brand new.
>>looking for approx $90
>>bought it for $120
You lost a huge manual in a weekend?
>But you were able to find one to photocopy?
>$90? -- sells new around here for $99.

===
Subject: ML program needed II
> Hi everybody, I«m looking for some help making a entry line 
with a small
> blinking cursor (Like TED) in ML, using FNT1. I've tried this in SysRPL
but
> it's too slow because of the blink and the entry at the same time, so I
> think ML would be a better (faster) solution.
> Can someone help me ?
>What should the Code do? Show an entry line? And where?
>And what should it to after the user typed in something? Put the string
>on stack?
The code I'm thinking off is a general prupose entry line to be inserted in
SysRpl programs
it takes three arguments from the stack:
4:
3:  Text String                          ---> Entry Label
2:  X position in ABUFF
1:  Y position in ABUFF
After the value is typed (ex. real number) it will be put on the stack.
I'm trying to rewrite some useful engineering UsrRpl programs in SysRpl and
all the values are to be entered with this small entry line with FNT1, for 
a
better management of the display area. I don't know any ML to make the
routine or/and the blinking cursor. If you know any code for this routine,
please mail me at jpnt@mail.telepac.pt
Paulo Tavares
jpnt@mail.telepac.pt

===
Subject: Re: ML program needed II
> The code I'm thinking off is a general prupose entry line to be inserted
> in SysRpl programs it takes three arguments from the stack:
> 
> 4: 3:  Text String                          ---> Entry Label 2:  X
> position in ABUFF 1:  Y position in ABUFF
What is ABUFF?
> After the value is typed (ex. real number) it will be put on the stack.
The code will read data from keyboard, and according to it, push a real,
float, or any other value onto stack. It can only allow strict real of
float values too (easier to code ;-)
> I'm trying to rewrite some useful engineering UsrRpl programs in SysRpl
> and all the values are to be entered with this small entry line with 
FNT1,
> for a better management of the display area. I don't know any ML to make
> the routine or/and the blinking cursor. If you know any code for this
> routine, please mail me at jpnt@mail.telepac.pt
I don't know how to use UFL from ML, I'm going to look at it.
Doing a blinking cursor is easy. The bigger part is probably to choose
what to push onto stack according to what is typed.
-Gilb-
00 E2 22 76 58 1F 72 BA  EA 94 78 F3 A2 63 E0 94

===
Subject: Re: ML program needed III
<1djexvz.1t9yk2516qnneaN@tntrasp18-157.abo.wanadoo.fr>...
-----Original Message-----
===
Subject: Re: ML program needed II
>The code will read data from keyboard, and according to it, push a real,
>float, or any other value onto stack. It can only allow strict real of
>float values too (easier to code ;-)
>I don't know how to use UFL from ML, I'm going to look at it.
>Doing a blinking cursor is easy. The bigger part is probably to choose
>what to push onto stack according to what is typed.
Hi Gilbert. If coding without UFL is easier, so I'll use the hp48 internal
small fonts and allowing only real float values would be a great help.
Paulo Tavares
jpnt@mail.telepac.pt
PS: How can I contact you (e-mail), the one in your messages is returned to
me by the mail administrator (as not found!)

===
Subject: Re: ML program needed III
> 
> I don't know if coding without UFL is easier. I got it with Jazz, but 
> I have no file explaining how to use UFL.. I got programs that do, but
> I don't know how my own ML ones could do.
Did you get the ACCESS.DIR ? It contains several ML programs which
use the UFL. They are small enough to be easily understood by
someone with your ML-knowledge in a matter of minutes.
The ACCESS.DIR is available along with the UFL from Andre's page.
David
-- 
David Hanon          phone : 32-2-650.55.29 
ULB - CP 231         fax   : 32-2-650.57.67
B-1050 Brussels,     e-mail: David.Hanon@ulb.ac.be
Belgium              WWW   : http://poseidon.ulb.ac.be/groupe/dh/

===
Subject: Re: ML program needed III
> Did you get the ACCESS.DIR ? It contains several ML programs which
> use the UFL. They are small enough to be easily understood by
> someone with your ML-knowledge in a matter of minutes.
> 
> The ACCESS.DIR is available along with the UFL from Andre's page.
The UFL v1.02 can be found here:
http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/ufl/
HTH,
katz
-- 
+-+
| A pig will walk in the wilderness, a pig will walk on the sea. |
|   A pig will walk wherever he wants, but no pig walks on me.   |
+-+

===
Subject: FS: New HP-12C Financial Calculator at ebay (auction)
I have put a new, unused HP-12C Financial Calculator up for auction at ebay. 

The minimum bid is $5.00, and there is no reserve.  If interested, you may
visit the auction at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=46013029
+----+
 Stephen J Thomas
 SJThomasOD@aol.com

===
Subject: Stupid pet tricks with RAND
Stupid pet tricks with RAND (but will they fool The Great Randi ?)
To warm up, before the main act, we might review how to
give the RAND function a random spin, so that it
can be started off in a randomized place, instead of
always producing the same sequence after the calc memory
has been cleared (as in ON+A+F+Yes, but not after mere warmstarts):
HP recommends 0 RDZ to set a time-dependent starting value for RAND;
however, this then only uses the low-order 20 bits of TICKS, converted
to an integer, as its actual argument.  Said value not only re-cycles
itself every two minutes or so, but also tends to leave the last six
digits of the first subsequent RAND output almost always the same,
which I think would make Bob Wheeler very angry :)
With proper choice of an RDZ argument, however, you can create up to
1E14 different possible starting values for RAND, so you can do
much better than 0 RDZ if you want a much more varied time-dependent
starting value; the following are based upon the fact that for
arguments > 1, RDZ utilizes all 12 mantissa digits and the final
two digits of the exponent (power of 10) of the argument:
Suggestions for an RDZ0 function (to replace 0 RDZ):
Steve VanDevender suggested using TICKS mod 1E14:
<< RCLF 8 SQ STWS TICKS 2 ALOG DUP2 / DUP 4 ROLLD * - B->R ALOG
    SWAP 6 ALOG SQ DUP2 / * - B->R * RDZ STOF >>
I use a highly non-linear generator of 14 digits:
<< DATE FACT TIME EXP * 0 RDZ RAND 2 ALOG * ALOG * RDZ >>
The 100-year internal clock is only about 2.5E13 ticks, so a 14-digit
seed generator can never go through all possible starting values.
Since the internal clock is updated 8192 times per second,
there is also no way to obtain the same result twice,
even if you repeat RDZ0 as rapidly as possible, in a running program.
Since RAND always maintains an odd number in its internal
15-digit mantissa value, RAND can never produce a result
exactly equal to zero; truncation (rather than rounding) to a
12-digit result also ensures that RAND never outputs exactly 1.
The smallest and largest possible outputs from RAND
are therefore 1E-15 and .999999999999
In case you think that you will never live to see the rare event
of catching these values appearing as output, however, try this:
5.13684117130E47   RDZ  RAND RAND RAND RAND ==> .000000000000001
4.39513938817E18   RDZ  RAND RAND           ==> .999999999999999
Another peculiarity of RAND is that once you have generated some
random outputs, there seems to be no way to go backwards
and replay them, to produce the same effects once again.
But have no fear, The Great Randi was here, and left us a
reverse RAND function, below, which runs RAND backwards
from any given point, to wherever you want it to back up to,
after which it will once again play out the exact same hand
when going forwards with RAND again, as it had done earlier.
The HP15C calculator had one more random-number function than does
the HP48, and that function was recall current random number,
which delivered again the *same* output value as did the
most recent RAND.  One of the purposes of this function was
to let you *save* the exact current position in the output
sequence of RAND, so that you could *interrupt* some process or
simulation, say, then use RAND for something else for a while,
and then later resume it for the interrupted program, exactly
where it had left off, by supplying the saved value to the HP15C's
store random number function, which was comparable to the
HP48's RDZ (set random number seed), except that there was
no clock in the HP15C, so that you could not randomly start
the random number generator by using the date and time, other than
by looking at your own clock, and digitizing its output manually.
It was possible for the HP15C to resume an interrupted RAND sequence
exactly where it was, because the internally saved random number
mantissa was the same 10-digit length as was available in all
user-accessible storage registers and the stack; the HP48
does *not* permit you to do this, however, because the
internally saved mantissa is 15 digits long, but it gets
truncated to 12 digits when RAND outputs a value, and then
once again, there are only 12 user-specified digits in
real numbers that you can offer as an argument to RDZ;
to add one more coup de grace to all this, RDZ also always
forces the 15th internal mantissa digit to be a 1,
no matter what else you might have liked it to be.
However, new functions are supplied below for the HP48 which can
both recall and restore the current internal RAND value to its full
15-digit precision, using a Long Real (extended precision) object,
which happens to contain a 15-digit mantissa, so now you can do
on an HP48 the same things that you used to be able to do
many years earlier, on the good old sturdy HP15C, which was the first
HP calc with complex-valued functions and matrices, to accompany
the already old hat numeric Solve and Integration functions.
For you young folk, that model was made back when there were
all-metal keyboards which didn't wear out, because quality
electronic devices were not made as throw-aways.
Come to think of it, that was only about fifteen or so years ago,
which demonstrates how technology has so quickly progressed, to
make things which now are already obsolete or dead when shipped :)
So, with much ado about nothing much,
here are the HP48 functions for reverse RAND
and recall/store current random number
(plus an extra free bonus function, not even advertised above):
Oh, I should first mention that since these are written in ML
by an idiot, using unsupported entry points and a wild guess
that they ought to work as well on an S/SX, you might want to
back up your memory before trying them (the Federal Trade Commission
requires me to make these statements, which would be unnecessary
if only I were selling tobacco or genetically engineered foods :)
@ RANPREV:        ==> previous_rand_value               S/SX/G/GX
CCD20E80008FB9760051B2CFA216F14613615AEAC097C713F335380333005999
0AFAAF1AFC3F30832198329935906600A70A0E59FBF10C54F158EAFC2ECC90DA
0CCB9155FAD48DD32A25CFE @ 73.5 bytes, #EFC5h
@ RANRCL:         ==> Long Real [unnormalized]        S/SX/G/GX
CCD20640008FB97601B2CFA216F14613615AEAC0AF805D0CC959908D532A2344
03008D04F01F4B5 @ 37.5 bytes, #5B4Fh
@ RANSTO:        Long Real [unnormalized] ==>         S/SX/G/GX
D9D20D29512BF810DB46CCD20130008F060A2AF4808501B2CFA216F146136158
E048D34150B2130C093 @ 39.5 bytes, #390Ch
@ RANXXX:  Mystery bonus function (run it, and then try RAND)
@ No arguments, no results, 29.5 bytes, #9019h
CCD20630008FB97601B2CFA216F146136AF0808205814814158E8D341509109
The above programs are in ASC format; see Goodies Disk #1
at , or see ,
or TASC.EXE on Goodies Disk #8 to convert on PC, instead of in HP48.
Since the clueless Food and Drug Administration requires disclosure
of all ingredients (except, of course, for genetically engineered
organisms, which are not present herein),
here is the source code for the above objects
(you can skip this if you normally don't read labels :)
* RANPREV:   Get *previous* RAND value
* (identical to normal RAND except for the inverse multiplier)
CODE
        GOSBVL   =SAVPTR
        SETDEC
        D0=(5)   =%RAN ( find RANDOMSEED address from %RAN function )
        D0=D0+   16
        C=DAT0   A ( #80822 for G[X], #706A4 for S[X] )
        CD0EX
        A=DAT0   15
        A=0      S
        ?A#0     W
        GOYES    nz
        LCHEX    0999500333083533
        A=C      W
nz      B=0    W
        ABEX     W
        LCHEX    0953992389123803 ( originally 0002851130928467 )
        GOTO     lp2
lp1     A=A+B W
lp2     C=C-1 P
        GONC     lp1
        BSL      W
        P=P+1
        GONC     lp2
        DAT0=A   15
        ABEX     W
        P=       14
        A=A-1    A
lp3     ?B#0  P
        GOYES    end
        A=A-1    A
        BSL      WP
        GONC     lp3
end     A=B   M
        GOVLNG   =PUSH%LOOP
ENDCODE
* RANRCL:  Recall current random number as unnormalized Long Real
CODE
=PUSH%%LOOP     =     #2A235 ( unsupported, appears stable )
        GOSBVL   =SAVPTR
        D0=(5)   =%RAN
        D0=D0+   16
        C=DAT0   A
        CD0EX
        A=DAT0   15
        A=0      S
        B=A      W
        SETDEC
        A=0      A
        A=A-1    A
        ?B=0     M (detect the situation mentioned below)
        GOYES    nearzer
        GOVLNG   =PUSH%%LOOP
* PUSH%%LOOP in turn calls PUSH%% (2A24B), which tests for
* a non-zero *long* mantissa in B via ?B#0 M, rather than ?B#0 W;
* this misses testing the last 3 of the 15 digits; therefore
* unnormalized values less than 1E-12 will be considered zero!
* (could be fixed by normalizing/denormalizing, but I don't bother,
* since the probability of such a too low value is too low anyway :)
nearzer LC(5)     #304 ( Undefined Result if zero or *almost* zero)
        GOVLNG   =GPErrjmpC
ENDCODE
* RANSTO:  Restore current random number from unnormalized Long Real
* (presumably produced by the complementary function above)
::
CK1NoBlame
CK&DISPATCH1
SIXTYTHREE ( 3F, Long Real )
CODE
=POP1%%   =  #2A060 ( unsupported, appears stable )
        GOSBVL   =POP1%% ( includes SAVPTR, does SETDEC )
        A=B      W ( mantissa only, ignore exponent and sign )
        ABIT=1   0 ( reduce the effects of any inappropriate inputs )
        D0=(5)   =%RAN
        D0=D0+   16
        C=DAT0   A
        CD0EX
        DAT0=A   15
        SETHEX
        GOVLNG   =GETPTRLOOP
ENDCODE
;
* RANXXX:  Run this, and then observe the results of RAND
* ( after which you may lose faith in statistics, if you ever had any :)
CODE
        GOSBVL   =SAVPTR
        D0=(5)   =%RAN
        D0=D0+   16
        C=DAT0   A
        CD0EX
        A=0      W
        LAHEX    5
        ASRC
        ASRC
        DAT0=A   15
        GOVLNG   =GETPTRLOOP
ENDCODE
* The above function is solemnly dedicated to Dr. Albert Einstein,
* who asserted:  God does not play dice with the universe
Finally, quoting the celebrated philanthropist P. T. Barnum:
This way to the Egress:
---
With best wishes from:   John H Meyers   

===
Subject: HPShell 3.11 (DOS IDE)
HPShell 3.11    Integrated Developing Environment
 FREEWARE           for all HP48 on DOS PCs.
* You program your HP48 and have never seen a real developing environment ?
* You look for an easy tool for file transfer ?
* You need someone managing your backups ?
* You would like somebody's doing all the stupid char conversion stuff ?
* And you want it all in one ?
Well, have a look on the HPShell !
After 5 years of continuous development it includes now a huge list of
features one would like to have while programming the HP48 or simply using 
it.
This is a (not complete) list of it's features:
-----
* Multi functional Editor with Syntax highlighting, Word Wrapping,
  HP48 Displays, ...
* File Transfer (Kermit included, ANY other protocol is also useable!)
* Backup Management
* DOS and HP48 Directory Management
* Char Conversion (ASCII <> ISO8859-1)
* Macros, Hotkeys, Toolbar
* free defineable Toolprograms
* and much more !!!
The HPShell can be found online on the Web at
  
Here you'll find a more complete list of features,
screen shots and a list of download-links spread all over world.
--
Tom Wellige
http://wellige.home.ml.org
http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

===
Subject: [HPRoom]Web site update
               Departement Informatique - ESIAL - ISIAL
        After a quite long period of silence, here it comes again :
        The HProom has been updated yesterday (01/12/98)
        You will find a huge amount of games, utilities, links, pc 
softwares...
for your HP48 (mainly G and GX version).
        The URL is : http://www.chez.com/lekeno/
        In order to obtain the english version you have to click on the 
Union
Jack button...
                 Enjoy !
        
--
               __                    _
              +    Le Keno ___     /    Baheux Kenji
                   _______/ @_  8   /   Esial Info 1A
                   _|__|_/            Kenji.Baheux@esial.u-nancy.fr
                     L  L           http://www.chez.com/lekeno/

===
Subject: IR??
Distribution: inet
My english isn't quite good... and i couldn't undesrtand the IR
upgrade....
it means that if i change IR resistor it will send signals to a larger
distance?
P.D. sorry for my last message(manual for hp48) posted to all... 
                 _______     ________    ________     __    __     
                /______   /_______  /_______   /_  /_   

               / / ___  /  / / ____  / / / ______/  / / /_/ / /  
              / / /_/ /  / / / / / / / / /_____  / / /__/ /   
             / / _____/  / / /_/ / /  /_____   / / / ____  /     
            / / /       / / /__/ /  /____/  / / / / / / /   
            /_/        /______ /   /_______/  /_/  /_/
         
       _______________________________________________________   
      /______________________________________________________
     / /                                                      /
    / / *  ICQ Number: 3149091                               /
   / / * IO.SYS file not found. (A)bort,(R)etiry,(P)anic.   /
  / / * Pilot virtual:   EC-LCV                            /
  /______________________________________________________/

===
Subject: Re: IR??
On Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:17:07 +0000, Posh - Miquel 
: My english isn't quite good... and i couldn't undesrtand the IR
: upgrade....
: it means that if i change IR resistor it will send signals to a larger
: distance?
No, it will receive IR signals from a larger distance.
If you take a look at the remote control programs, you'll find that the
sending range is more than 3 meters without any modification.
The reason for the short range of data transfer between two HPs are the
receivers. They are quite limited to reduce power consumption and
susceptibility to foreign signals (e.g. from a remote control).
The upgrade does make it a bit better, but for most users it's not worth
the effort. A) taking apart a HP is a major undertaking, B) the power
consumption is increased and C) it only really works if two upgraded HPs
talk to each other.
Pete
Commercial email sent to this address will be proofread

===
Subject: Old HP28S
Where could I find the assembly manual for my old  28s in internet?
(I've lost the string to create the {System Object} to accelerate my
calculator).
-- 
Remove xxx from E-mail.

===
Subject: Re: Old HP28S
pleese take a look at http://www.hpcalc.org
There are subpages related to the HP28.
Did you mean the 'Customize Your HP28' ?
Raymond
Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germany.net

===
Subject: c to hp48
I'm searching for a program that compiles sources in c to HP48g machine
code language.
please EMAIL-me: paulei@rocekmail.com

===
Subject: symbolic matrices, HOW?
Xdisclaimer: No attempt was made to authenticate the sender's name.
Hi
I would like the HP48 to be able to generate matrices containing
numbers and variables eg {{0,1,n,m},{0,1,c,0}}.  I then need to be able
to multily this by a vector eg {0,0,1,1} for instance.
The calculator won't allow non-numerical matrices.
Which program will allow symbolic matrix maths?
Duncan
cochran@sjh.bi.umist.ac.uk 

===
Subject: Re: symbolic matrices, HOW?
> Hi
 I would like the HP48 to be able to generate matrices containing
> numbers and variables eg {{0,1,n,m},{0,1,c,0}}.  I then need to be able
> to multily this by a vector eg {0,0,1,1} for instance.
 The calculator won't allow non-numerical matrices.
 Which program will allow symbolic matrix maths?

> Duncan
> cochran@sjh.bi.umist.ac.uk
>
Duncan: Both the ALG48 and Erable programs have functions for symbolic
matrices. You will need the supporting programs UFL, AI048,and EQSTK to 
view
the matrices computed by ALG48 and Erable. You can download all of these
programs and their supporting documentation from the HP48 archive kept by
Eric Rechlin at: www.hpcalc.org/  - hope this helps, J.C. Randerson
http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

===
Subject: Re: symbolic matrices, HOW?
> I would like the HP48 to be able to generate matrices containing
> numbers and variables eg {{0,1,n,m},{0,1,c,0}}.  I then need to be able
> to multily this by a vector eg {0,0,1,1} for instance.
> 
> Which program will allow symbolic matrix maths?
ALG48 does... and it does a LOT more...
-- 
Erwann ABALEA
eabalea@certplus.com

===
Subject: EMU48 <-> HP 48
Does EMU48 could talk to a HPvia the serial port. I would like to use it to
transfer files and to play

===
Subject: Re: EMU48 <-> HP 48
> Does EMU48 could talk to a HPvia the serial port. I would like to use it 
to
> transfer files and to play

Yes, use have to use one of the Unofficial Service Packs (included since 
SP3).
You'll find the actual version on my homepage at
http://privat.swol.de/ChristophGiesselink/.
Christoph
http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

===
Subject: EMU48 <-> HP 48
Does EMU48 could talk to a HPvia the serial port. I would like to use it to
transfer files and to pay

===
Subject: Help: System RPL on Hp38G
I'm writing a System RPL aplet for the HP38G which involves plotting
graphs. Does anyone know if its possible to use to ROM code behind the
'ZOOM' key which is available in the plot views of all the standard
aplets.
Any other info on re-using Rom code would be greatly appreciated because
it reduces program size and avoids re-inventing the wheel.

===
Subject: xgcc
hi
what does this error mean??
ERROR: unable to resolve symbol '_printf',
       referenced by object-file '/tmp/cca008321.o'
linkage failed due to unresolved references
I try to use the c-compiler for linux to create programms for my
hp48G
mathias
--
      Windows '95: how do you want to crash today ???
                 LINUX - join the revolution
 mathias kuhn                    phone:  +41-56-622-82-53
 weingasse 47                    e-mail: mkuhn@pop.agri.ch
 CH-5612 villmergen              icq#:   22644419

===
Subject: HALT alternative
Hi there !
I've made a program for the HP48 but I can't find an alternative to the 
HALT
command which interrupts the execution of a program. I would like to do the
same but with other command like END or STOP from Basic.
Note: reply to my email adress.
----
Tito Nuno Alves Santos
titvsvpremvs@mail.telepac.pt

===
Subject: UserRPL EXIT command (HALT alternative)
> I've made a program for the HP48 but I can't find an alternative
> to the HALT command which interrupts the execution of a program.
> I would like to do the same but with other command
> like END or STOP from Basic.
If you mean that you would like a command to exit from anywhere in
the middle of a UserRPL program, without having to follow structured
programming requirements (where programs only exit at the very end):
Either a KILL or CONT command will terminate a UserRPL program;
however, this also terminates any higher-level program which might
have contained (or called) the program which issued KILL or CONT.
A slightly more elegant (and useful) solution is to store the
following program in HOME, perhaps in a variable called 'EXIT'
You can then use the EXIT command in your UserRPL programs, and
only the specific user program which calls EXIT will be terminated.
This program is listed in SysRPL, then a downloadable binary
is given in ASC format (see the FAQ or Goodies Disk #1
or TASC.EXE on Goodies Disk #8 for the use of ASC format).
* EXIT from the current enclosing *UserRPL* program
* (without terminating any higher level program)
* E.g. << 123 EXIT 999 >> ==> 123
::
  CK0NOLASTWD
  BEGIN R> R> SWAP >R ( pop one stream )
  DUP ' x>>ABND EQUALPOSCOMP #0=?SKIP ABND ( local variables ? )
* << ... -> vars << ... EXIT ... >> ... skips this also ... >>
  DUPLENCOMP NTHELCOMP ?SKIP FALSE ( last token in composite )
  { x>> AtUserStack } ( User program, or popped all the way to SOL ? )
  SWAP EQUALPOSCOMP #0<> UNTIL
* Abort one more user level, in case DO, WHILE, START, FOR, etc.
* (which have copied their containing runstream via BEGIN)
  R@ DUPLENCOMP NTHELCOMP ?SKIP FALSE ' x>> EQUAL IT RDROP
* More examples:
* << 1 100 START 123 EXIT ... NEXT >> ==> 123
* << WHILE 1 REPEAT 123 EXIT ... END >> ==> 123
* << 123 P2 456 >>, P2: << 789 EXIT ... >> ==> 123 789 456
* << << << 123 EXIT ... >> EVAL ... >> EVAL 456 >> ==> 123 456
* << 0 -> x << << << 123 EXIT ... >> EVAL ... >> EVAL 456 >> 
>>
;
* ASC format: 90 Bytes, #045Fh
D9D2051A812A170F1070F107032230F9F608813079E60EF5323A446A33367947
0132366B650A21700CA3047A20936329CB04B2130322303A4467CC308C170210
70132366B650A21700CA3079E609363279B30CB9167BF60B2130F540
Standard Disclaimer:  Back up your memory before use.
You asked for it -- you got it!
---
With best wishes from:   John H Meyers   

===
Subject: Re: UserRPL EXIT command (HALT alternative)
[snipped]
There are still some neglected loopholes in my posted EXIT program,
such as failing to do ABND if a START or FOR loop was exited;
this has no severe consequences, but I will repost a new version
Save five bytes by replacing R> R> SWAP >R with RSWAP R> ...
No Exit  - Jean Paul Sartre
You can't get there from here  - Farmer Brown
---
With best wishes from:   John H Meyers   

===
Subject: F.S-   48gx no manual- $130firm///in calif

===
Subject: Re: F.S-   48gx no manual- $130firm///in calif
I know you said firm, but considering I can buy a brand new 48gx for
$170 (with manual, of course) and with yours I would have to spend an
extra $10-15 for the manual, your $130+15=$145 seems kinda steep. I'll
give you $100 shipped for it (pre-paid) but that's the only reasonable
amount I could pay for a used calc..
Let me know,
Robert

===
Subject: I am a newbie, please be gentle... User RPL Programming question.
Ok, today i ordered the AUR and another 128k, but I cant wait for the book
to get here. This is driving me nuts, there must be something very 
intrinsic
to User RPL that I dont get. Pertaining to local variables, sometimes when 
I
write a program and use the -> name line I will recieve a syntax 
error. I
believe the -> command must be the last command in a program preceding
either an algebraic or another << program. Am I correct that you cannot
have any User RPL commands following a -> ? also, could you please pick
this one apart, i am writing this routine to take a rectangular coordinate
and return a labled HMS and distance. It is for my work, simple new
construction lot layouts.
So, the problem (1st of many im sure, as i havent fully developed anything
here yet), is that I cannot define the local variables of the truncated
angle. i want to truncate the angle so as to include them in a string with
decimals and the degree symbol. Please help with my -> usage...
%%HP: T(1)A(D)F(.);
<< Enter Coordinate
  {
  :Northing:
  :Easting :
  { 1 0 } } INPUT
  OBJ-> -> N E
 << RECT N E ->V2
   CYLIN V-> DUP ROT
   ROT ->HMS -> d a
  << IF a 0 <
    THEN 360 a HMS+
    ELSE a
    END
   << -> ams
    << ams 0 TRNC ams
      100 * 0 TRNC DUP
      100 * ams 10000 *
      SWAP - -> ddd mm ss
     << IF ddd 100 <
       THEN 0 ddd +
       END
      << d + -> hhh
       << hhh + mm + . +
         ss + :HHH.MM.SS
         + d :Feet +
       >>
      >>
     >>
    >>
   >>
  >>
 >>

===
Subject: Re: I am a newbie, please be gentle... User RPL Programming 
question.
> Ok, today i ordered the AUR and another 128k, but I cant wait for the 
book
> to get here. This is driving me nuts, there must be something very 
intrinsic
> to User RPL that I dont get. Pertaining to local variables, sometimes when 
I
> write a program and use the -> name line I will recieve a syntax 
error. I
> believe the -> command must be the last command in a program preceding
> either an algebraic or another << program. Am I correct that you cannot
> have any User RPL commands following a -> ? also, could you please pick
> this one apart, i am writing this routine to take a rectangular 
coordinate
> and return a labled HMS and distance. It is for my work, simple new
> construction lot layouts.
> 
> So, the problem (1st of many im sure, as i havent fully developed 
anything
> here yet), is that I cannot define the local variables of the truncated
> angle. i want to truncate the angle so as to include them in a string 
with
> decimals and the degree symbol. Please help with my -> usage...
> 
I send below the program you need.
You're doing at least 2 errors:
#1 the header you use (%%HP...) is misteriously wrong. See mine;
#2 you've to declare temp vars at the beginning of the program, with value 
0:
@program sample
%%HP: T(3)A(D)F(.);
<< 0 0 0 -> A B C  @ Declare 3 temp vars, with value 0. 
  << A?  INPUT
OBJ-> 'A' STO A 2 *  @ Use temps vars.
'B' STO B 3 / 'C'
STO
A A ->TAG  @ Show vars.
B B ->TAG
C C ->TAG
  >>
This is a program like your's (I think. Your's is not running...)
@program coord:
%%HP: T(3)A(D)F(.);
<< DEG
Enter Coordinate
{
:Northing:
 :Easting:
{ 1 0 } } INPUT
OBJ-> RECT SWAP ->V2
CYLIN V-> RECT 360
HMS+ 360 MOD HMS->
DUP DUP IP DUP 10 <
0  IFTE SWAP
100 < 0  IFTE +
SWAP ->STR + SWAP FP
 . IFTE 00000
+ + DUP 1 6 SUB .
+ SWAP 7 12 SUB +
HHH.MM.S ->TAG
SWAP dist ->TAG
SWAP
>>
ciao.
enrico
------
-
: Enrico Carta                           : <                              > 
:
: Telecommunications Engineering student : <   SPACE                      > 
:
: University of Pisa - ITALY             : <            FOR               > 
:
: E-mail: enrico@ieee.org                : <                    RENTAL... > 
:
: Phone/Fax: ++39(50)56.07.58            : <                              > 
:
------
-

===
Subject: Re: I am a newbie, please be gentle... User RPL Programming 
question.
Ok, wow, for learning User RPL in one week this is a lot to digest! Great
mail. Of all the online tutorials I've downloaded I have not once read any
referance to the temp vars you utilized though. Perhaps that command 
would
>I send below the program you need.
>You're doing at least 2 errors:
>#1 the header you use (%%HP...) is misteriously wrong. See mine;
>#2 you've to declare temp vars at the beginning of the program, with value
0:
@program sample
>%%HP: T(3)A(D)F(.);
><< 0 0 0 -> A B C  @ Declare 3 temp vars, with value 0.
>  << A?  INPUT
>OBJ-> 'A' STO A 2 *  @ Use temps vars.
>'B' STO B 3 / 'C'
>STO
>A A ->TAG  @ Show vars.
>B B ->TAG
>C C ->TAG
>  >>
>This is a program like your's (I think. Your's is not running...)
@program coord:
>%%HP: T(3)A(D)F(.);
><< DEG
>Enter Coordinate
>{
>:Northing:
> :Easting:
>{ 1 0 } } INPUT
>OBJ-> RECT SWAP ->V2
>CYLIN V-> RECT 360
>HMS+ 360 MOD HMS-DUP DUP IP DUP 10 <
>0  IFTE SWAP
>100 < 0  IFTE +
>SWAP ->STR + SWAP FP
> . IFTE 00000
>+ + DUP 1 6 SUB .
>+ SWAP 7 12 SUB +
>HHH.MM.S ->TAG
>SWAP dist ->TAG
>SWAP
>>
>ciao.
>enrico

>-----

--
>: Enrico Carta                           : <                              
>
:
>: Telecommunications Engineering student : <   SPACE                      
>
:
>: University of Pisa - ITALY             : <            FOR               
>
:
>: E-mail: enrico@ieee.org                : <                    RENTAL... 
>
:
>: Phone/Fax: ++39(50)56.07.58            : <                              
>
:
>-----

--


===
Subject: XVIEW HELP XVIEW!
HI, I'm having a problem.......
I have an exam tomorrow, and I have some text on my computer wich I want to
put on my HP48gx.
I have xview installed on my hp but I can't get the text file copied to 
my
hp
Can anyone help me??
So;
-how do I get the textfile on my HP
-how can I view the text on my hp??
Please help me!!
Seb. Bevers
info@bevers.demon.nl

===
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=5BML=5D=A0GONC?= instead of GOTO, and jumping 
to
 object's using PC(-) : ??
I was playing with some real values, from -9 to +9, and found the HP
coded those using a 5 nibble address pointing to an encoded value in
ROM, rather than reproducing the value as a real on stack. I searched
for CK routines, and found one about reals:
CKREAL at #63B2D
It's a RPL stuff that does (inside) a DUP and a check; I went directly
there, and found:
DUP
.. -> something to a primitive code object
LC(5)   =DOREAL
GOTO    *6205B*
6205B --> RSTK=C
          C=DAT1    A
          CD1EX
          A=DAT1    A
          D1=C
          C=RSTK
          ?C=A
          
I thought checks would read adr on stack, point to it and check, and
then push a TRUE or FALSE accordingly. Why does the HP do a DUP, and
then an overwrite T/F? Is that better than checking and pushing a value,
never thought I'd find that routine coded.. that way. I expected a very
fast and simple routine, thus read - check - push_result, and I get a
dup - compare - overwrite_dupped_val_with_result, and several jumps
while a ML-only routine would have done fine, like:
C=DAT1   A
CD1EX
A=DAT1   A
LC(5)    =DOREAL
CD1EX
?C=A     A
GOYES    =PushTLoop  (1)
GONC     =PushFLoop  (2)
(1)  Assuming PushTLoop is close enough
     to allow a GOYES
(2)  I kept a GONC like they do in ROM,
     see last paragraph below for a question
     about that.
And when I check PushTLoop, I get something I didn't find yet:
LC(5)   =TRUE
A=C     A
PC=(A)
pushes a TRUE onto stack, but.. I doesn't change D or D1 at all!
I never thought of that because jumping to somewhere, like an object in
ROM, even if it's a valid one, wouldn't update D or D1, or does it?
And if I create an object, can I make PC jump to it at the end of my
program, rather than a {ÊD=D-1  A } and pushing the obj's addr 
using a
{ÊD1-5 DAT1=C A ..Loop.. } ?
(assuming C(A) contains object's address)
Also, sometimes I find a test, followed by a GOYES, and just after, a
GONC.. but according to context, the carry flag will *always* be
0/FALSE, so why is a GONC there, rather than a mere GOTO? Is GONC/GOC
faster than GOTO?
-Gilb-
00 E2 22 76 58 1F 72 BA  EA 94 78 F3 A2 63 E0 94

===
Subject: Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=5BML=5D=A0GONC?= instead of GOTO, and 
jumping to object's using PC(-) : ??
[other stuff skipped]
> when I check PushTLoop, I get something I didn't find yet:
> LC(5)   =TRUE
> A=C     A
> PC=(A)
> pushes a TRUE onto stack, but.. I doesn't change D or D1 at all!
> I never thought of that because jumping to somewhere, like an object
> in ROM, even if it's a valid one, wouldn't update D or D1, or does it?
  TRUE is a PCO; the code above executes it.
Now disassemble TRUE:
LABEL   TRUE
        CON(5)   (*)+5
=PUSHA
        D=D-1    A
        GOC      ...
Mystery solved?
> And if I create an object, can I make PC jump to it at the end
> of my program, rather than a {ÊD=D-1  A } and pushing the 
obj's add...
  How would you know that you first had room to create the object?
  If your program calls GARBAGECOL itself, it could then be relocated
  during the GC, which would be a Bad Thing when the saved old PC
  was popped for RTN; OTOH, when your program has something like
  GOVLNG PUSH... [naming a function located in ROM] as its very last
  instruction, then the final code instructions are being executed
  in ROM, which is pretty safe against being moved during GC :)
  [but watch out for any new flash downloads updating your ROM
  while it's executing code :]
  prologs would become instantly invalid if relocated.
  Now that we've said that, note how SysPtr@ jumps to DOBINT
  to push values onto the stack!  There are lots of tricks
  used in ROM, but a lot of them depend upon the fact that the code
  is frozen in ROM, and also has various related ROM functions
  defined right inside each other; trying to imitate some of the
  far-out-looking stunts in user programs, some of which might
  find their way into libraries and eventually get executed
  in temporary memory, could be unfulfilling, so remember
  what the fire-eaters and sword-swallowers always say:
  Don't try this at home, kids!    :)
In other words, understand the basis of what's being done
in ROM before trying to imitate it; standard coding practice
is much safer in user programming, especially when it's
---
With best wishes from:   John H Meyers   

===
Subject: Re: [ML]ÊGONC instead of GOTO, and jumping 
toobject's using PC(-) : ??
hello
>I was playing with some real values, from -9 to +9, and found the HP
>coded those using a 5 nibble address pointing to an encoded value in
>ROM, rather than reproducing the value as a real on stack.
It's a litte unsefull trick use by the compiler to squize the size of the
rpl programs.
>I searched for CK routines, and found one about reals:
>CKREAL at #63B2D
>It's a RPL stuff that does (inside) a DUP and a check; I went directly
>there, and found:
>I thought checks would read adr on stack, point to it and check, and
>then push a TRUE or FALSE accordingly. Why does the HP do a DUP, and
>then an overwrite T/F? Is that better than checking and pushing a value,
>never thought I'd find that routine coded.. that way.
the reason is to win place, HP is quite short in memory in the ROM.
>Also, sometimes I find a test, followed by a GOYES, and just after, a
>GONC.. but according to context, the carry flag will *always* be
>0/FALSE, so why is a GONC there, rather than a mere GOTO? Is GONC/GOC
>faster than GOTO?
You might not have notice that a test is modifying the carry. For example,
you will find often in programs ?A=0.A RTNYES RTN
This basicaly set the carry if A=0 and clear it if not. A valid test set 
the
carry, a not valid test clear it.
A+ Cyrille de Brebisson
Le Meilleur moment pour planter un arbre etait il y a 20 ans. Le Deuxiemme
meilleur moment est maintenant
The Best Time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best moment is
now.
http://www.capway.com/brebisso

===
Subject: Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=5BML=5D=A0GONC?= instead of GOTO, and 
jumping to object's using PC(-) : ??
 CKREAL at #63B2D
 It's a RPL stuff that does (inside) a DUP and a check; I went directly
> there, and found:
 DUP
> .. -> something to a primitive code object
 LC(5)   =DOREAL
> GOTO    *6205B*
 6205B --> RSTK=C
>           C=DAT1    A
>           CD1EX
>           A=DAT1    A
>           D1=C
>           C=RSTK
>           ?C=A
>            I thought checks would read adr on stack, point to it and check, and
> then push a TRUE or FALSE accordingly. Why does the HP do a DUP, and
> then an overwrite T/F? Is that better than checking and pushing a value,
It's mainly done to save space; This way, they have both the DUPTYPEREAL? 
and
TYPEREAL? objects, with minimal overhead.  The difference in execution time
of DupAndThen TYPEREAL? vs. your code further on is minimal, really.  But 
HP's
requires only 5 extra nibbles...
> I
> never thought I'd find that routine coded.. that way. I expected a very
> fast and simple routine, thus read - check - push_result, and I get a
> dup - compare - overwrite_dupped_val_with_result, and several jumps
> while a ML-only routine would have done fine, like:
 C=DAT1   A
> CD1EX
> A=DAT1   A
> LC(5)    =DOREAL
> CD1EX
> ?C=A     A
> GOYES    =PushTLoop  (1)
> GONC     =PushFLoop  (2)
 (1)  Assuming PushTLoop is close enough
>      to allow a GOYES
 (2)  I kept a GONC like they do in ROM,
>      see last paragraph below for a question
>      about that.
 And when I check PushTLoop, I get something I didn't find yet:
 LC(5)   =TRUE
> A=C     A
> PC=(A)
 pushes a TRUE onto stack, but.. I doesn't change D or D1 at all!
>
Of course it does.. in the execution of the object TRUE itself, which is
a Primary Code Object that pushes its own address on the stack.  PC=(A)
resumes execution at the pointee of =TRUE, which is =TRUE + 5 nibs
> I never thought of that because jumping to somewhere, like an object in
> ROM, even if it's a valid one, wouldn't update D or D1, or does it?
 And if I create an object, can I make PC jump to it at the end of my
> program, rather than a {ÊD=D-1  A } and pushing the obj's 
addr using a
> {ÊD1-5 DAT1=C A ..Loop.. } ?
>
Yes you can.  And yes, the check is made.  It's implicit in every object's
prologue (well the ones that need a check anyway)
 (assuming C(A) contains object's address)
 Also, sometimes I find a test, followed by a GOYES, and just after, a
> GONC.. but according to context, the carry flag will *always* be
> 0/FALSE, so why is a GONC there, rather than a mere GOTO? Is GONC/GOC
> faster than GOTO?
Faster AND shorter. A GOC/GONC takes 3 nibs vs. 4 for a GOTO
--
Werner Huysegoms
remove the x before replying
http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

===
Subject: Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=5BML=5D=A0GONC?= instead of GOTO, and
> GONC.. but according to context, the carry flag will *always* be
> 0/FALSE, so why is a GONC there, rather than a mere GOTO? Is GONC/GOC
> faster than GOTO?
it seems you should read the manuals (SASM.DOC in this case)
more carefully;-)
Since you were pointed to the docs (Mika...), why don't you use
them ?
Another pointer: See SASM.DOC page 109 ff...
There you will see that GONC/GOC consists of 3 nibs
instead of GOTO which consumes 4 nibs.
So there's one nib less to move around in memory:-)
Where applicable, one should use GONC/GOC to save space and time.
Raymond
GONC http://www.hpcalc.org :-)
Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germany.net

===
Subject: Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=5BML=5D=A0GONC?= instead of GOTO, and
Quel dommage;-)
Mais les docs pour J-ASM etc ?
Ils sont en francais peut-etre...
(Sorry for my funny french, it's not my native language:-)
Au revoir 8-)
Raymond
Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germany.net

===
Subject: Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=5BML=5D=A0GONC?= instead of GOTO, and
> it seems you should read the manuals (SASM.DOC in this case)
> more carefully;-)
> Since you were pointed to the docs (Mika...), why don't you use
> them ?
I don't like docs. They're in english, and annoying to read
(besides being in english, that is).
Truth is I really dislike HP's syntax.
:o) 
-Gilb-
00 E2 22 76 58 1F 72 BA  EA 94 78 F3 A2 63 E0 94

===
Subject: Dimensions of the HP48
I am about still to decide me for the suitable pocket calculator (HP48 G
with 768KB or TI89): -). Now still the size of the HP would interest me. I
unfortunately found no specification in addition. The TI is at least 1 x 
3.5
x 7.3 inch largely. But how it looks with the HP?
Thomas Vetter
PS. I think however that I will buy the HP. Symbolic algebra knows Mathcad,
Marple, Mupad anyway better than TI or HP. The application of the pocket
calculator is anyway forbidden to us at the university for maths. Why I 
will
use it particularly for electro-technology.

===
Subject: Re: Dimensions of the HP48
Hi Thomas
concerning your p.s. :
you're right, mathcad & co. are better in symbolic algebra but you can't
really take your computer anywhere, you have to boot etc. The Hp and the
TI are intended to fill the gap between doing a quick calculation on a
piece of paper and an extended session using one of the math programs. 
Think about one special feature of the Hp :  it can convert almost all
units into another.
I' m german as well, doing an exchange in the US right now and it really
helps me a lot.
( how much bars are a psi, how much kJ is a BTU , how much 
m^2
is a ft^2 ...) 
Hope that helps in your decision ..
        ULLI
------
remove the ..... you know it :-)

===
Subject: removing libraries
Before you respond with RTFM, I did.  I just can't quite understand how 
to
go about doing what it says.
I have Frogger on my calculator that I would like to remove to make room 
for
this:
Enter the library identifier for the library in independent memory - it 
has
the form :port:number.
TIA,
Drew Boyles

===
Subject: Re: removing libraries
first of all you should know which number is has (lets take 778 for
example). Then, if haven«t got any memcard, it is in port 0. 
So you should
write:
:0:778 DUP DETACH PURGE    (press enter)
Note that 778 should be the correct number. After this, the library should
be removed.
-=UssU=-
>Before you respond with RTFM, I did.  I just can't quite understand 
how
to
>go about doing what it says.
I have Frogger on my calculator that I would like to remove to make room
for
>this:
Enter the library identifier for the library in independent memory - it
has
>the form :port:number.
TIA,
Drew Boyles


===
Subject: removing libraries
Right.
If your library has (for example), the library number 789 (decimal),
you would have to key in ':0:789' (w/o the ').
This can be the following way:
1. Press right-shift then the plus_key (+)
2. Press the zero_key (0)
3. Press right_arrow (below the 'NXT' key)
4. Key in 7 8 9
5. Hit ENTER twice
Now you have the following expression on the stack
(In fact it's tagged object, but that doesn't matter here):
In level 1 & 2 of the stack display:    :0:789
6. Press left-shift then the two_key (2)
7. Hit the upper rightmost key (The menu above should show 'DETAC')
8. Press left-shift then the EEX_key (EEX)
Now the library should have been removed.
Hope this helps
Raymond 
Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germany.net

===
Subject: Re: removing libraries
Drew Boyles
abb6@ra.msstate.edu
>Right.
If your library has (for example), the library number 789 (decimal),
>you would have to key in ':0:789' (w/o the ').
>This can be the following way:
>1. Press right-shift then the plus_key (+)
>2. Press the zero_key (0)
>3. Press right_arrow (below the 'NXT' key)
>4. Key in 7 8 9
>5. Hit ENTER twice
Now you have the following expression on the stack
>(In fact it's tagged object, but that doesn't matter here):
>In level 1 & 2 of the stack display:    :0:789
6. Press left-shift then the two_key (2)
>7. Hit the upper rightmost key (The menu above should show 'DETAC')
>8. Press left-shift then the EEX_key (EEX)
Now the library should have been removed.
Hope this helps

>Raymond
Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germany.net

===
Subject: Re: removing libraries
: Right.
: If your library has (for example), the library number 789 (decimal),
: you would have to key in ':0:789' (w/o the ').
Sure, but maybe you don't know that number: here's how to find out:
Press left-shift, then 2 (libraries), press A (ports).
Now select the port where you've put you're lib. (most likely port 0 or
:0: ). It then lists all libraries numbers in that port (on the menu).
Selecting a number will put in on the stack (together with the first
characters of the lib's name).
Bart Puype
--

===
Subject: 48SX 41CV Emulation Card Wanted
I'd really like to have one of these things. I'm willing to buy or trade. I
have several HP calculator items.

===
Subject: help needed on :shortest route problem
Does anyone know if there is a nifty tool for calculating the shortest 
route
in a network on a 48G

===
Subject: Re: help needed on :shortest route problem
Does anyone know if there is a nifty tool for calculating the shortest route 
in
a network on a 48G
--::
unless i'm mistaken...isn't that one of those intractable problems...???


===
Subject: Re: help needed on :shortest route problem
hi, tinywanda
i'm not sure about the term intractable but there are a few 
algorithmes.
 by Hiller&Liebermann(1980);Hu(1969) or christofides(1975)). The ones I 
need
are those with an iterative way of solving the problem by use of a table.
(the number of iterations=number of points in the network). The are also a
few comparations to be made.
the same idea is used in the progrs like route66. First calculate the
distances, time or costs between the points in the network, then calculate
the shortest route.(HU 1969).
Coen Veldhuis

===
Subject: Re: help needed on :shortest route problem
Yea, I think it's called the traveling salesmen problem and the only
solution (I think) are
brute-force methods which grows in exponential time. Not a good think for a
very very fast computer,
let alone a calculator.
Jeff
>Does anyone know if there is a nifty tool for calculating the shortest
route in
>a network on a 48G
>--::
unless i'm mistaken...isn't that one of those intractable problems...???


>---- :: o
>.---..-..-..-..-..-..-.  .  .-. .-.  .-..-..-..   .-.
>`| |'| || .` | >  /   / / / /    | .` || | ) /   
> `-' `-'`-'`-' `-'    `. ^ .' `--^--'`-'`-'`-'' `--^--'
>Join The BabyNous Cult : The Friendly Neighborhood Cult

===
Subject: Re: help needed on :shortest route problem
The traveling salesman problem asks for the
shortest path that visits ALL cities, which makes
it hard. A shortest path is the shortest distance
between a pair of cities. As you say, finding the
shortest path is not a problem for a calculator
unless there are very few cities, in which case a
simple enumeration of all paths may do. A very
good book, written so one can dip into it without
reading everything, is  Sedewick, R. (1984)
Algorithms. Addison-Wesley
-- 
Bob Wheeler --- (Reply to: bwheeler@echip.com)
        ECHIP, Inc. 
> 
> Yea, I think it's called the traveling salesmen problem and the only
> solution (I think) are
> brute-force methods which grows in exponential time. Not a good think for 
a
> very very fast computer,
> let alone a calculator.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> >Does anyone know if there is a nifty tool for calculating the shortest
> route in
> >a network on a 48G
> >--::
>  >unless i'm mistaken...isn't that one of those intractable problems...???
>     >---- :: o
> >.---..-..-..-..-..-..-.  .  .-. .-.  .-..-..-..   .-.
> >`| |'| || .` | >  /   / / / /    | .` || | ) /   
> > `-' `-'`-'`-' `-'    `. ^ .' `--^--'`-'`-'`-'' `--^--'
> >Join The BabyNous Cult : The Friendly Neighborhood Cult

===
Subject: Re: help needed on :shortest route problem
Here is a simple enumeration of all paths implemented 
with techniques not appropriate for the hp48
> The traveling salesman problem asks for the
> shortest path that visits ALL cities, which makes
> it hard. A shortest path is the shortest distance
> between a pair of cities. As you say, finding the
> shortest path is not a problem for a calculator
> unless there are very few cities, in which case a
> simple enumeration of all paths may do. A very
> good book, written so one can dip into it without
> reading everything, is  Sedewick, R. (1984)
> Algorithms. Addison-Wesley
> 
%%HP: T(3)A(R)F(.);
DIR
@ transliterated from a version in --ANSI Common Lisp--
@ by Paul Grahm
@
@ find the shortest path through a network represented
@ as a list of lists. The HEAD of a list is
@ a node and the TAIL of the list is all nodes reachable
@ in one step.
@
@      B
@     /          ==>  {{a b c}{b c}{c d}}
@    A - C - D        
@             
SHORT
<<
  -> first last net
  <<
    last first 1 ->LIST 1 ->LIST net
    BFS
  >>
@ perform a breadth first search of a tree building 
@ a list of traveled paths along the way
@
BFS
<<
  -> last queue net
  <<
      {}
    ELSE
      queue HEAD DUP HEAD
      -> path node
      <<
          path REVLIST
        ELSE
          last
          queue TAIL path node net NEWPATHS +
          net
          BFS
        END
      >>
    END
  >>
@ move down one level in the tree
@
NEWPATHS
<<
  -> path node net
  <<
    node net ASSOC TAIL
    <<
      -> n
      <<
        n path +
      >>
    >>
    DOLIST  
  >>
@ do a lisp-like alist type of thing
@
ASSOC
<<
  -> key alist
  <<
    IF alist TYPE 5 == THEN
      alist HEAD
      -> pair
      <<
          pair
        ELSE
          key alist TAIL ASSOC
        END
      >>
    ELSE
      {}
    END
  >>  
END

===
Subject: [LONG ~8.5Kb] (was: Re: help needed on :shortest route problem)
(mail, usenet reply)
Does anyone know if there is a nifty tool for calculating the shortest 
route
>in a network on a 48G
   I managed to find what you want laying around in a backup from early 1996 

on my hard disk. It's not a program, actually, but a directory product of an 

evening of boredom, I remember -- it should give you something to start with 

anyway, if you know how to program the calculator.
   Don't ask me what algorithm I used, or anything, I just spent the last 10 

minutes figuring out how the thing worked, but I hardly remember the details 

of it.
   The directory contains three kinds of variables, according to their 
contents, they either hold:
 1.- a program.
 2.- the network data.
 3.- results from executing a program.
   This is their meaning, as I figure it out:
Variable Name   Description
------   ---
DAT             The network nodes.
DAT.1           Distances between nodes.
DAT.2           Network resistance between nodes (an inverse, really)
EOR             End of Path -- the node one wants to go to.
F1              A function, I can't remember what it does.
F1.1            Ditto.
F2              A function, gives all possible path from a node to EOR.
F3              Looks up all the partial distances from a node to EOR.
F4              Looks up the resistance for all segments from node to EOR.
F5              After executing F3 and F4, it calculates the time it takes 
to 
                   travel from a node to EOR following each possible route.
Format of the data variables (DAT, DAT.1, DAT.2, EOR):
 * DAT: It's a list of lists representing the connections between nodes in 
the 
network, format is:
{
 { node_1 connect_1 connect_2 .... connect_n }
 { node_2 connect_1 connect_2 .... connect_n }
 ....
 { node_n connect_1 connect_2 .... connect_n }
}
Look below for an example network (the one already configured in the 
directory).
 * DAT.1: A list too, format is:
{
 { node_1 dist_1 dist_2 ... dist_n }
 { node_2 dist_1 dist_2 ... dist_n }
 ....
 { node_n dist_1 dist_2 ... dist_n }
}
 * DAT.2: Network resistance, I've actually used speeds rather, which 
can be 
considered the inverse of a resistance value (speed = 1/resistance).
 * EOR: The 'end-of-path' node identifier, look at the directory.
   Now let's illustrate an example network, this is the same as is 
configured 
in the directory below: (in terms of connected nodes, distances are not 
represented in this graphic)
       (A)(B)
                  |
                  | 
                  |  
                  |  (E)
                  |       (G)
                  |       /
                  |      /
          (D)----(C)-----(F)
                 / 
                /   
              (J)    
              /      (K)
             /
           (I)
            |
           (H)
   Suppose you want to know all possible paths between, say, (B) and (J), 
you 
would do:
'J' 'EOR' STO   @ Store 'J' as the end of path.
{ B }           @ Put 'B', inside a list, in stack level 1.
F2              @ Execute F2
The result should be:
3: { B C J }    @ One path
2: { B E F C J }@ Another
1: 2            @ Number of results put on the stack
   Suppose you want to know the total distance for each of the above paths, 

do:
'J' 'EOR' STO   @ Store 'J' as the end of path (not necessary if already 
there).
{ B }           @ Put 'B', inside a list, in stack level 1.
F2              @ Execute F3.
The results are stored into SOL.1:
'SOL.1' RCL gives:
{
 { 4.243 2.000 }              @ { B-C C-J }
 { 2.000 2.236 2.236 2.000 }  @ { B-E E-F F-C C-F }
}
to get the total distance for each path do (on a G/GX):
'SOL.1' RCL
<< GSLIST >> DOLIST      @ GSLIST = the command under | MATH | | 
LIST |
results:
{ 6.243 8.472 }             @ distances for path 1, path 2.
   Suppose you want to compute the network segments resistance for each 
path:
'J' 'EOR' STO   @ Store 'J' as the end of path.
{ B }           @ Put 'B', inside a list, in stack level 1.
F4              @ Execute F5
Results are in SOL.2 -- SOL.2 by itself is not very useful, but you need to 

compute it if you want to use the F5 function.
   F5 gives you the total travel time between the two points for each path:
'J' 'EOR' STO   @ Store 'J' as the end of path.
{ B }           @ Put 'B', inside a list, in stack level 1.
F3              @ Execute F3 to compute SOL.1
{ B }           @ F4 takes this argument from the stack.
F4              @ Execute F4 to get SOL.2
F5              @ Execute F5
and get (4 FIX):
{ 0.0511 0.0935 }
which are the total travel times in HMS from node B to J, according to the 
given distances and resistances (or velocity).
   OK, so this is all lousy and cumbersome, but at least I've shown it can 
be 
done. Just take patience if you try it with a somewhat large network :)
   What follows is the User-RPL code, cut and paste into a separate file and 

upload onto the calculator using Kermit.
   Oh, and sorry for the long post :)
Diego Berge.
1998-12-05 08:23 UTC
------ cut here ---- cut here ---- cut here 
------
%%HP: T(1)A(G)F(.);
DIR
  F5
    Ç SOL.1 SOL.2 2
      Ç /
      È DOLIST 1
      Ç ·LIST ÙHMS
      È DOLIST
    È
  SOL.2 { { 80 80
60 60 60 } { 80 40
60 } }
  SOL.1 { {
2.82842712475
4.24264068712
2.2360679775
3.60555127546 } {
2.82842712475 2
2.2360679775
3.60555127546 } }
  F4
    Ç SOL 1
      Ç 2
        Ç Ù a b
          Ç a DAT
STSLIL
            Ç b POS
a DAT.2 STSLIL
              Ç
SWAP GET
              È IFT
            È IFT
          È
        È DOSUBS
      È DOLIST
'SOL.2' STO
    È
  DAT.2 { { A 80 }
{ B 80 80 60 } { C
80 80 40 60 40 } {
D 80 } { E 60 60 }
{ F 40 60 60 } { G
60 } { H 60 } { I
60 60 } { J 60 60 }
{ K 40 } }
  CST.2 { '°8' '°18
' '°8' '°4' '°5' '°
13' '°4' '°10' '°13
' '°17' }
  F3
    Ç SOL 1
      Ç 2
        Ç Ù a b
          Ç a DAT
STSLIL
            Ç b POS
a DAT.1 STSLIL
              Ç
SWAP GET
              È IFT
            È IFT
          È
        È DOSUBS
      È DOLIST
'SOL.1' STO
    È
  DAT.BK1 { { A B C
} { B A C E } { C A
B E D } { D C E } {
E B C D F } { F E }
}
  CST.1 { A B C D E
F G H I J K }
  DAT.1 { { A
2.82842712475 } { B
2.82842712475
4.24264068712 2 } {
C 4.24264068712
2.82842712475
2.2360679775 2
4.12310562562 } { D
2.82842712475 } { E
2 2.2360679775 } {
F 2.2360679775
2.2360679775
3.60555127546 } { G
3.60555127546 } { H
3.16227766017 } { I
3.16227766017
3.60555127546 } { J
2 3.60555127546 } {
K 4.12310562562 } }
  CST { 80 60 40 }
  F1.1
    Ç 'X' Ù lst le
      Ç lst EOR POS
NOT
        Ç lst DUP
SIZE GET DAT STSLIL
          Ç 1
            Ç Ù el
              Ç lst
el POS NOT
Ç lst el +
È IFT
              È
            È
DOLIST DEPTH
            Ç DUP
              Ç
OBJÙ DROP
              È IFT
            È IFT
          È
          Ç DROP
          È IFTE
        È
        Ç lst 1
ÙLIST 'SOL' STO+
        È IFTE
      È
    È
  F2
    Ç Ù arg
      Ç DEPTH ÙLIST
'STK' { } 'SOL' STO
STO arg
        WHILE DEPTH
        REPEAT F1
        END STK
OBJÙ DROP 'STK'
PURGE SOL OBJÙ
      È
    È
  SOL { { D C B E F
G } { D C F G } }
  EOR G
  F1
    Ç 'X' Ù lst le
      Ç lst EOR POS
NOT
        Ç lst DUP
SIZE GET DAT STSLIL
          Ç 1
            Ç Ù el
              Ç lst
el POS NOT
Ç lst el +
È IFT
              È
            È
DOLIST DEPTH
            Ç DUP
              Ç
OBJÙ DROP
              È IFT
            È IFT
          È
          Ç DROP
          È IFTE
        È
        Ç lst DUP 1
DISP 1 ÙLIST 'SOL'
STO+
        È IFTE
      È
    È
  STSLIL
    Ç DUP SIZE 1 0
Ù sltag lst lstlng
n result
      Ç
        WHILE n
lstlng Å
        REPEAT lst
n GET HEAD sltag
          Ç 'n'
INCR DROP
          È
          Ç lst n
GET 'result' STO
lstlng 1 + 'n' STO
          È IFTE
        END result
TYPE
        Ç result 1
        È
        Ç 0
        È IFTE
      È
    È
  DAT { { A B } { B
A C E } { C B D F J
K } { D C } { E B F
} { F C E G } { G F
} { H I } { I H J }
{ J C I } { K C } }
END

===
Subject: HP200LX  <-> HP48GX
Folks,
I just purchased a 48GX and would like to know if anyone's got one to talk
to a HP 200LX via the *infrared port*.  I can get them talking using wire
(two connectivity kit serial adapter cables and one serial male gender
changer) and Kermit.  However attempts using the HP 200LX Data Comm
terminal set to Kermit server mode and configured for the infrared port
does not seem to work (the 48GX was set to infrared as well).
Rob

===
Subject: Re: HP200LX  <-> HP48GX
Yes! I have transferred files to and from my 200LX.  The procedure is
available at http://www.hp.com/calculators/service/ir_transfer.html
Dave Zelkowski
> 
> Folks,
> 
> I just purchased a 48GX and would like to know if anyone's got one to 
talk
> to a HP 200LX via the *infrared port*.  I can get them talking using wire
> (two connectivity kit serial adapter cables and one serial male gender
> changer) and Kermit.  However attempts using the HP 200LX Data Comm
> terminal set to Kermit server mode and configured for the infrared 
port
> does not seem to work (the 48GX was set to infrared as well).
> 
> Rob

===
Subject: Make a library
I use the hp48gx a lot for my math classes and have started writing short
programs for fun and for things in my work. I hate cluttering my menu bar
with all those variables that the programs use. I've noticed that the
programs that I download from the net don't have that problem. In the 
manual
it says that a library handles varibles in a different way, something like
globe and local variables. So I was wondering if there's a way for a non
programer like me to turn my very small programs into librarys. I already
know how to attach and detach a library, I've done this a lot. And I also
have meta kernal and a memory card installed. I also know all the 
procedures
for attaching to different ports. The meta kernal is the latest version to.
Now with this limited imformation about my abilties as a programer can 
anyone
tell me how to do this.
Gary
You can send it to my e-mail also
gwiese@wwnet.net
http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

===
Subject: Can't ERABLE or ALG48 solve !?
Can't Alg48 or Erable solve.......
My examples are relatively simple. I am using them because they cover a
lot. I would like to know if I need to enter them in there
characteristic form
( r^2+r*a+b = 0 ) on the stack. I tried LDEC in Erable. 1st on stack 0,
2ed on stack x ^ 2 + 4*x +3 and got something close to a general
solution for my 2ed example.
Non homogenous differential  equations ?
i.e.
(y' +1) / 3 = 2*x -y
    The general answer is of course y = C * e^-3*x  + 2*x-1
Or how about a homogeneous 2ed order differential equation.
i.e.
y'' + 4*y' +3*y = 0
      y(0) = 2 and y'(0) = -1
      The general answer is of course y = C * e ^ - 3*x + D*e ^ -x
      The perticuler answer is  y = - 0.5*e ^ -3*x + 2.5*e ^ -x
BTW I would like to know from an American what level
mathematics this is in school. I am a Swedish 17 years old
and might start to study in the USA.When do you start Liner algebra ?
Is it true that calculators are allowed to be used on exams ?!
All the best
Eva
HellqvistEva@hotmail.com
---
To John M.
Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.
 J. Robert Oppenheimer. I believe Robert was speaking to Seth Nedermyer,
the man who realized that plutonium could be brought to critical mass by
a symetrical chock wave.
Robert was citing his translation of Chapter 11 Verse 32 of the Hindu,
Sanskrit text, 'Bhagavad-gita'
 (the song of God).
After witnessing the first atomic detonation at Trinity Site, just west
of Socorro, New Mexico on July 16, 1945.
Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and
to impress him he takes on his multi-armed form (Shiva) and says:
If the radiance of a thousand suns
Were to burst at once into the sky
That would be like the splendor of the Mighty one...
 I am become Death,
The shatterer of Worlds.
Eva

===
Subject: Can't ERABLE or ALG48 solve !?
Can't Alg48 or Erable solve.......
My examples are relatively simple. I am using them because they cover a
lot. I would like to know if I need to enter them in there
characteristic form
( r^2+r*a+b = 0 ) on the stack. I tried LDEC in Erable. 1st on stack 0,
2ed on stack x ^ 2 + 4*x +3 and got something close to a general
solution for my 2ed example.
Non homogenous differential  equations ?
i.e.
(y' +1) / 3 = 2*x -y
    The general answer is of course y = C * e^-3*x  + 2*x-1
Or how about a homogeneous 2ed order differential equation.
i.e.
y'' + 4*y' +3*y = 0
      y(0) = 2 and y'(0) = -1
      The general answer is of course y = C * e ^ - 3*x + D*e ^ -x
      The perticuler answer is  y = - 0.5*e ^ -3*x + 2.5*e ^ -x
BTW I would like to know from an American what level
mathematics this is in school. I am a Swedish 17 years old
and might start to study in the USA.When do you start Liner algebra ?
Is it true that calculators are allowed to be used on exams ?!
All the best
Eva
HellqvistEva@hotmail.com
---
To John M.
Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.
 J. Robert Oppenheimer. I believe Robert was speaking to Seth Nedermyer,
the man who realized that plutonium could be brought to critical mass by
a symetrical chock wave.
Robert was citing his translation of Chapter 11 Verse 32 of the Hindu,
Sanskrit text, 'Bhagavad-gita'
 (the song of God).
After witnessing the first atomic detonation at Trinity Site, just west
of Socorro, New Mexico on July 16, 1945.
Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and
to impress him he takes on his multi-armed form (Shiva) and says:
If the radiance of a thousand suns
Were to burst at once into the sky
That would be like the splendor of the Mighty one...
 I am become Death,
The shatterer of Worlds.
Eva

===
Subject: Re: Can't ERABLE or ALG48 solve !?
[...]
> I am a Swedish 17 years old
>and might start to study in the USA.
>Eva
Read in MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.com/news/220448.asp):
-----
[...]
The Third International Mathematics and Science Study ranked American
12th-graders, aged 17 and 18, 18th out of 21 countries ÷ far behind 
Sweden
and the Netherlands and ahead only of Lithuania, Cyprus and South Africa.
[...]
-----
So why do you want to leave Sweden for the US?
(I guess it's for the climate :-)
Gerald.

===
Subject: Re: Can't ERABLE or ALG48 solve !?
> Non homogenous differential  equations ?
> i.e.
> 
> (y' +1) / 3 = 2*x -y
>     The general answer is of course y = C * e^-3*x  + 2*x-1
> 
> Or how about a homogeneous 2ed order differential equation.
> 
> i.e.
> 
> y'' + 4*y' +3*y = 0
>       y(0) = 2 and y'(0) = -1
>       The general answer is of course y = C * e ^ - 3*x + D*e ^ -x
>       The perticuler answer is  y = - 0.5*e ^ -3*x + 2.5*e ^ -x
> 
> BTW I would like to know from an American what level
> mathematics this is in school. I am a Swedish 17 years old
> and might start to study in the USA.When do you start Liner algebra ?
> Is it true that calculators are allowed to be used on exams ?!
Your examples are basically the level of an AP (Advanced Placement) 
Calculus course offered in some (not all) American high schools, so 
basically kids your age would be taking the course as seniors before 
they go off to university for their first year. Some instructors let 
students use calculators, some don't, and those who do allow 
calculator use often have different thresholds of tolerance for 
features like graphing, programability, solvers, etc. It all really 
depends on the school and the teacher.
Good luck with your calculus! Viva la Wronskian!
katz
-- 
+-+
| A pig will walk in the wilderness, a pig will walk on the sea. |
|   A pig will walk wherever he wants, but no pig walks on me.   |
+-+

===
Subject: Drawing Inverse Function?
    The TI 83 (and maybe others) has a cool feature that draws the inverse
function of a function. (The function reflected over Y=X) It doesn't graph
it or calculate the inverse function, it simply draws it. Is there a 
program
or feature like this for the HP48GX?
Josh

===
Subject: calculation error onmy HP48GX
My Hp48GX (year 1993) do some error on calculation with these cases:
plot of: abs(ln(x)), abs(log(x))
convertion from rectangular to polar (Angle in place of Pi-Angle)
HELP!... 
        PHV

===
Subject: Re: calculation error onmy HP48GX
> My Hp48GX (year 1993) does some error on calculation with these cases:
> plot of: abs(ln(x)), abs(log(x))
  My astrologer told me that my psychic powers would peak around
  each Full Moon, and since that cosmic event most recently occurred
  yesterday morning, I'll take a crack at this opportunity
  to test myself:
  If the error is that the graph does not show anything for x < 0
  then the problem is that logarithms of negative real inputs are
  complex-valued; complex values are not plotted in Function plots.
  Perhaps you meant 'LN(ABS(X))' instead of 'ABS(LN(X))' ?
> conversion from rectangular to polar (Angle in place of Pi-Angle)
  Sorry, I do not understand.  Specific mention of input value,
  function attempted, and output value is the best way to
  get specific help for a specific problem.
BTW, your calculator was probably recently made; the year 1993
stamped into the plastic case refers to copyright and design,
not to date of production.  Type VERSION and press enter;
the latest version is HP48-R, and was copyright 1993,
since which year HP has barely even thought any more
about calculators, and has left the field entirely to us :)
---
With best wishes from:   John H Meyers   

===
Subject: Re: calculation error onmy HP48GX
> My Hp48GX (year 1993) do some error on calculation with these cases:
 plot of: abs(ln(x)), abs(log(x))
> convertion from rectangular to polar (Angle in place of Pi-Angle)
 HELP!...
Please tell us what you did, what you expected to happen, and what
actually happened.
-Joe-
http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

===
Subject: FS: Like-new HP48G, also manuals
Hi.
I have a like-new HP 48G with case, manuals, and original box (ratty).  It
is more calculator than I need, and I am sticking with my HP-11C (not for
sale!).  $50 plus shipping.
I also have an extra set of manuals for the 48G/GX for $10 plus shipping.
J. P. Grenert
grenert@mayo.edu

===
Subject: ROM Dump help..
Ok, I cannot seem to get any of the ROM dump programs at hpcalc.org to work
on my machine... The Wizard, patched, or the seperate wizard you can d/l,
ROM Upload, ROM Dump... At least ROM Upload gets as far as packet 530 or
so... then fails. Any ideas? Anyone else had this been a pain in the butt?
My goal is to use Emu48. I have a feeling it may be the flow control
setting. I've tried all three, xon/xoff, hardware, none... with varying
results.

===
Subject: Re: ROM Dump help..
I used the wizard and it worked great.  Just make sure that you don't have
any library activated at that moment.
>Ok, I cannot seem to get any of the ROM dump programs at hpcalc.org to 
work
>on my machine... The Wizard, patched, or the seperate wizard you can d/l,
>ROM Upload, ROM Dump... At least ROM Upload gets as far as packet 530 or
>so... then fails. Any ideas? Anyone else had this been a pain in the butt?
>My goal is to use Emu48. I have a feeling it may be the flow control
>setting. I've tried all three, xon/xoff, hardware, none... with varying
>results.


===
Subject: Re: ROM Dump help..
Use my ROM Upload program, it's much easier to use, and works perfectly 
with
HyperTerminal Private Edition.
For the flow settings, you must select NONE.
What I recommend, is that you first start the upload on the HP48, then 
start
the XMODEM reception on the PC.
http://www.epita.fr/~avenar_j/hp/48.html
Jean-Yves
>Ok, I cannot seem to get any of the ROM dump programs at hpcalc.org to 
work
>on my machine... The Wizard, patched, or the seperate wizard you can d/l,
>ROM Upload, ROM Dump... At least ROM Upload gets as far as packet 530 or
>so... then fails. Any ideas? Anyone else had this been a pain in the butt?
>My goal is to use Emu48. I have a feeling it may be the flow control
>setting. I've tried all three, xon/xoff, hardware, none... with varying
>results.


===
Subject: Re: ROM Dump help..
BTW, maybe its helpful to mention I am using HyperTerm Private Ed.

===
Subject: TI-92 or HP-48G?
Which is the better, the TI-92 plus or the best HP?
be real, and dont tell me what company you prefer.
I am thinking of TI, but which has more options and functions (not
available programs on the net)

===
Subject: Re: TI-92 or HP-48G?
>Which is the better, the TI-92 plus or the best HP?
>be real, and dont tell me what company you prefer.
I am thinking of TI, but which has more options and functions (not
>available programs on the net)
Many, many years ago, one of my electronics professors commented that in 
the
battle between RPN and algebraic entry, algebraic had won.  His rationale
was the larger number of algebraic calculators on the market.  I disagreed,
and pointed out that HP was doing quite well selling RPN calculators for
considerably more money than any existing algebraic calculator.
The bottom line, as has already been stated, is that you should decide for
yourself what you want.  I have had a number of calculators over the years
and I prefer HP.  Your mileage may vary....

===
Subject: Re: TI-92 or HP-48G?
Your best bet is to search ti92 on www.dejanews.com for this n.g.
You will find many, many discussions an this very subject (I know having
just done
the same thing - I'm getting an HP48GX).
Jeff
>Which is the better, the TI-92 plus or the best HP?
>be real, and dont tell me what company you prefer.
I am thinking of TI, but which has more options and functions (not
>available programs on the net)
>

===
Subject: Re: TI-92 or HP-48G?
>>Which is the better, the TI-92 plus or the best HP?
>>be real, and dont tell me what company you prefer.
>>I am thinking of TI, but which has more options and functions (not
>>available programs on the net)
>
This will be a never-ending thread until HP releases their next calculator, 
and
then it will continue as the HP 58? vs. TI 92...
easy multivariable integration.  You can add software to help the HP-48
compete, but it still requires more brainpower to get a simplified answer 
than
the push-button simplicity of the 92.  If you're using the calculator just 
for
calculus, get the 92. 
HOWEVER:
Even in the TI mailing list, there are several posts about the HP48GX 
beating
the TI when a numerical answer is requierd (from people who own both).  The 
HP
has better numeric accuracy, and is oriented towards providing quick 
numeric
solutions.  The TI-92 is somewhat stunted with respect to Linear Algebra - 
no
Eigenvector command, according to an owner in my L.A. class.  The HP48 is 
MUCH
better supported by available programs to solve almost any problem you can
imagine.  The HP is applicable to MANY other subjects, from engineering to
chemistry to physics.
The bottom line is: the 48 is a more capable calculator in most respects. 
However, where the 92/89 beats it (integration and large graph screen) it
REALLY beats it.  Weigh carefully how important those two features are to 
you -
they will  determine how happy you are with whatever you buy.
While I find RPN IS very intuitive for calculations, I doubt I'd be kicking
myself for using an algebraic calculator.
If you buy the HP, plan to buy a computer connection cable.  I regard Java 
as
an absolute necessity for using this calculator in 1998-1999.  It provides 
the
on-screen algebraic notation the HP lacks out-of-the-box.  Trust me, you 
want
it, no matter what you use the calculator for. :-)
As a final note, expect a learning curve with either calculator - a little
steeper for the HP if you're used to TIs, for obvious reasons.
Michael

===
Subject: Re: TI-92 or HP-48G?
>The bottom line is: the 48 is a more capable calculator in most respects. 
>However, where the 92/89 beats it (integration and large graph screen) it
>REALLY beats it.  Weigh carefully how important those two features are to 
you -
>they will  determine how happy you are with whatever you buy.
Just want to add my comment. When I bought a 48G I was astonished over
the many great possiblity this little machine offers.
>While I find RPN IS very intuitive for calculations, I doubt I'd be 
kicking
>myself for using an algebraic calculator.
For the first time I was wondering why HP used such strange reverse
polish notation, but I got acoustemed in one or two weeks to RPN.
Today I don't like to use any algebraic calc, because RPN is much more
logical and even faster, yes easier to use (at least for me).
 
>If you buy the HP, plan to buy a computer connection cable. 
Very important!
> I regard Java as
>an absolute necessity for using this calculator in 1998-1999.  It provides 
the
>on-screen algebraic notation the HP lacks out-of-the-box.  Trust me, you 
want
>it, no matter what you use the calculator for. :-)
Yes, Java is a great program. If you lack the mem for such a big
program you might try to use EQStk, which is smaller then the most
versions of Java. I guess EQStk is not a beginner's program, because
you can't see the status area, but with some little ideas you don't
have to see the status and I personally enjoy to have a 7-level-stack
which EQStk offers. Some other stack-replacements might also be
interesting. Especially if you decide to buy a G and are very short on
mem you might like Hyperstack, which is very small (but offers no
*pretty print*)
When I bought the G I thaught I have bought a great little machine,
but by using the calc, trying new programs and beginning to write my
own small userRPL programs I discoverd that this little machine gets
even better, when you take the time to learn the many ways how you can
use the calc. I still have many things to discover, but that's not a
problem. In different states of knowledge the calc is always very
usefull. But it's like playing guitar. With some chords you can sing
along, but when you practice you can have even more fun and play solos
and play much more music....
Mmhh, like playing guitar - when you make progress - you might like to
buy a spanish guitar to accompany your steel string according the calc
you might like to buy more mem or you decide to buy a GX like I did
;-)
And one of the greatest advantages of the HP48 is this newsgroup. Here
I found many who took the time to answer my questions or I enjoyed to
read interesting posts and the ideas which were posted here :-)
This helped me a lot!!!
Happy calculating and last not least enjoy the music :-)
BTW, do you know Michael Hedges? A really great guitarist!
Peter
E-Mail: karpfenteich@gmx.de
_______________________________
Do you know the great Frequently Asked Questions?
http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/
and the superb HP48 Software Archive?
http://www.hpcalc.org
to look for *old* HP48 postings see
http://www.dejanews.com

===
Subject: Re: TI-92 or HP-48G?
> >>Which is the better, the TI-92 plus or the best HP?
> >>be real, and dont tell me what company you prefer.
> > >>I am thinking of TI, but which has more options and functions (not
> >>available programs on the net)
> > 
> This will be a never-ending thread until HP releases their next 
calculator
> and then it will continue as the HP 58? vs. TI 92...
>
[snip...]
> The bottom line is: the 48 is a more capable calculator in most respects.
> However, where the 92/89 beats it (integration and large graph screen) it
> REALLY beats it.  Weigh carefully how important those two features are to 
you
- they will  determine how happy you are with whatever you buy.
>
[more snip...]

> Michael
As an owner of the HP48GX and the TI89, I have to say that Michael is 
pretty
much right on in his assessment.  The HP48 is generally more flexible and
therefore more powerful than the TI89/92.  However, I'd like to make a few
additional points.
1) User interface (for lack of a better term).  My biggest frustration 
with
the HP48 is the general slowness of the UI.  One quickly learns to avoid 
the
use of the built-in choose boxes, variable browsers, program editors and 
such
because they make the calculator seem to be slogging through molasses.  The
TI89, on the other hand, responds as quickly as you can push the buttons. 
The machine is limited by the speed of the user, not the other way around. 
This is (IMO) how it should be.
I know that some of these issues with the HP48 can be addressed through 
add-on
software, and that brings me to the next point.
2) I was able to overcome much of what I don't like about the HP48 by 
using,
for example, JAVA, ALG48, and ERABLE, to name a few.  These are large,
complex programs which are provided as a courtesy to the HP48 community by
their respective authors (and it's much appreciated, BTW).  However, these
programs are not commercial undertakings, and as such, the occasional
software bug does arise.  What often happens (in my experience) is that a
software bug will cause a crash which completely resets the machine.  
Unless
I'm near my computer from which a backup can be reinstalled, I'm then left
with a crippled calculator. I use my calculator a lot, and these 
crashes
often occur whether I'm using the buggy application or not.  For 
example, I
might be simply multiplying a couple of numbers and experience a crash.  As 
a
result, I eventually removed most add-on libraries because I couldn't
tolerate the frequent memory clears, and I once again wound up with a stock
calculator, warts and all.
So, while the HP48 *is* (for the most part) better, I find myself using 
the
TI89 nearly exclusively.  I like the speed of the interface, I like the 
split
screen capability, I like the high resolution display, I like the fact that 
I
don't need to add a lot of third party software to make the machine usable. 

In short, with the TI89, I find that there is less to dislike...
--
Karl E. Yeanoplos
kyeanopl@ast.lmco.com
http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

===
Subject: Re: TI-92 or HP-48G?
>2) I was able to overcome much of what I don't like about the HP48 by 
using,
>for example, JAVA, ALG48, and ERABLE, to name a few.  These are large,
>complex programs which are provided as a courtesy to the HP48 community by
>their respective authors (and it's much appreciated, BTW).  However, these
>programs are not commercial undertakings, and as such, the occasional
>software bug does arise.  What often happens (in my experience) is that a
>software bug will cause a crash which completely resets the machine.  
Unless
>I'm near my computer from which a backup can be reinstalled, I'm then left
>with a crippled calculator. I use my calculator a lot, and these 
crashes
>often occur whether I'm using the buggy application or not.  For 
example, I
>might be simply multiplying a couple of numbers and experience a crash.  As 
a
>result, I eventually removed most add-on libraries because I couldn't
>tolerate the frequent memory clears, and I once again wound up with a 
stock
>calculator, warts and all.
I don't like those crashes too! I had very hard times with heavy
memory corruptions!!! I tried to find out the programs which caused
the problems and deleted all unstable libs.
Now my calc is running really stable! I deleted Java (3.2a and 3.4
later, I also tried later betas, but not the latest ones! I also
didn't tried the final version 3.6 till now). These old versions seem
to be the cause for some of my problems, I had also some problems with
one or two other libs, but they were'nt that important.
Today I use many libs often without problems, but to be on the safe
side I have all very important libs in port1 write protected. Port2 is
not likely to get corrupted and I write protect port2 only for an exam
(although I hadn't any crash in the last few months since I use the
stable libs).
In Port2 I always have a BZed (compressed) backup of my HOME-dir (I
use the command ARCHIVE and BZ the result and store this in port2). So
if port0 and HOME would get lost I don't have a real problem and I
don't need to have a computer to vitalize a crashed calc. But as I've
stated I don't have such hard problems now! Frequently I make a backup
of my HOME-dir to the calc to be really on the safe side.
I also had trouble with two upgraded G's. Now I strongly recommend to
use a GX and original HP mem cards!
For those who might be interested which libs I use without having
problems here we go:
HOME: No external programs, but some user-rpl progs and many vars
containing EQ's and GROBS, strings and so on.
Port0: XCHOOSE
Port1: Erable (latest version), TED 3.2, EQStk+ (special version with
7-line interactive stack), UFL, QPI, QTS, MathTools 7 and last not
least a custom lib containing some commands from the HACK lib, a few
external programs, Browse, BZ and some userRPL routines I like to use.
Port2: Some BZed strings, Scribe 1.01, Stat03, Matrix 1.2, FPX 2.4, FC
4.1, Alg48 and my BZed copy of HOME
So for me I've found a working solution which bypasses the weaks of
the calc and which is running stable with those great freeware
programs. I have a warmstart every one or two months without knowing
what causes this, but I didn't had memory corruptions.
Peter
E-Mail: karpfenteich@gmx.de
_______________________________
Do you know the great Frequently Asked Questions?
http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/
and the superb HP48 Software Archive?
http://www.hpcalc.org
to look for *old* HP48 postings see
http://www.dejanews.com

===
Subject: Re: TI-92 or HP-48G?
I'm not sure what people mean by saying that the HP48 is more unstable than
the TI92 (I own a HP48GX). In my engineering class almost everybody has a
TI92 and we're 3-4 people with a HP48.
It is actually more than common that a TI92 goes down (they ALSO install
third-party programs as to solve the problems they need to solve) - but 
this
is actually a bigger problem for them than for me (when it at a rare
occation happens) because there is no way of trying to recover memory.
Everything is wiped out at an instant (only way to reset the machines, or
unlock it from a frozen condition, is by pulling out the batteries). The
HP48 (as you know) has many steps of recovering at least some memory
content.
So I don't mean that the TI wins on stability - on the contrary.
Also it doesn't graph faster - try setting #2 RES or #3 RES on the '48,
plotting is a breeze. It's very difficult to get a useful contour-plot on
the TI92 - you need a lot of fidling around with point-of-view.
Complex numbers (whether in polar or rectangular form) is a big joke on the
TI92. You can't even divide two complex numbers without 6-8 keystrokes.
It's also very inconsistent in it's behaviour. If you're in DEG mode and
evaluates 'i+1' it returns a euler funtion (exponential) with 45 degrees as
an exponent, this is a big error since this exponent always should be in
radians. The calc doesn't know this and further evaluations of this result
leads to (probably) unnoticed errors.
This is a very serious problem when designing electrical circuits -
everything is complex. The calc should at least always return something 
that
it can work on with. I wonder how this looks internally? Don't look at
current mode, but label angle blindly to radians?
What about the TI89 so-called units? It always returns SI-units and you 
have
no means of translating (kg*m^2)/(A*s^3) to volts!
I could go on about what the TI92/89 lacks of features and how they always
turns out as the lesser machine compared to the HP48GX.
Ice

===
Subject: Re: TI-92 or HP-48G?
> 
> Which is the better, the TI-92 plus or the best HP?
> be real, and dont tell me what company you prefer.
> 
> I am thinking of TI, but which has more options and functions (not
> available programs on the net)
I am afraid you are incorrect, The HP has MANY more functions than the TI 
and
is MUCH more programmable. No, the HP does not have as much symbolic math
power out of the box as the TI but there are many programs available that 
make
it more powerful. If you intend to do any programming (which is the most
wonderful aspect of it) you would be very restrained if you choose the TI. 
I
owned several models of the TI series and none were satisfactory. The HP is
the only one that allows as much flexibility as I want. I can quite 
literally
program it to do most anything.
Just my $.02
 
-- 
Al Arduengo
Media Processing and Platforms Division     Digital Audio Product 
Engineering
Motorola, Inc. - Austin TX 
Phone: (512) 895-8690    Fax: (512) 895-8719  Pager: 1-800-SKYTEL2  
#1386420

===
Subject: Re: TI-92 or HP-48G?
> Which is the better, the TI-92 plus or the best HP?
> be real, and dont tell me what company you prefer.
What do you prefer: Pepsi, or Coca-Cola?
Sorry for the off-topic answer, but I think that this sort of question is
really stupid...
For a better answer: read the specs of the two machines, and find yourself
your own opinion...
-- 
Erwann ABALEA
eabalea@certplus.com

===
Subject: Symbolic Algebra: How good is the 48 ?
How good is the '48 at symbolic algebra? I've been trying to get a
feel by lurking on the group for a while, but without much success.
Can it do eliminations/simplifications ?
Can it solve (systems of) equations symbolically ?
Can it solve ODEs ?
How would you go about solving, for instance, exp(x)-x <= 1 ?
(answer: x<0), or maybe something which almost all packages appear
to be able to handle, such as x + sqrt(x)=1  ?
I'm just trying to get a feel for what this calculator can & can't do
compared to a computer-based CAS package such as Maple or Mathematica.
Rick
-- 

===
Subject: Re: Symbolic Algebra: How good is the 48 ?

> How good is the '48 at symbolic algebra? I've been trying to get a
> feel by lurking on the group for a while, but without much success.
 Can it do eliminations/simplifications ?
> Can it solve (systems of) equations symbolically ?
> Can it solve ODEs ?
 How would you go about solving, for instance, exp(x)-x <= 1 ?
> (answer: x<0), or maybe something which almost all packages appear
> to be able to handle, such as x + sqrt(x)=1  ?
 I'm just trying to get a feel for what this calculator can & can't do
> compared to a computer-based CAS package such as Maple or Mathematica.

> Rick
 Rick: Right up front - I'm an HP man. But I'm also a gadget nut, so I 
also
have the TI-89. So maybe I can help you compare machines. With symbolic
algebra, there is little difference between the HP48 with the ALG48 and
Erable programs installed and the TI-89.  The difference is mostly command
syntax. Personally, I much prefer manipulating expressions with the HP48
better. Entering large expressions is a snap with the HP's Equation Writer.
With the TI-89 you may use 20 pairs of nested parentheses with some physics
equations! And then have to edit your expression several times before you 
get
few more indefinite integrals. The Derive software of the TI-89 is terrific
with integration. The TI-89 is easier to use out of the box. The learning
curve is definitely shorter with the TI. The TI is also cheaper, and does 
not
ain't entirely true. You only have about 188K for programs. The rest is 
use-
less unless you want to store a lot of notes. Memory management on the HP48
matrices are handled much better on the HP48. The Erable and ALG48 programs
do a much better job handling symbolic matrices than the TI-89. Indeed, I
would not do a linear algebra course with anything other than the HP48 with
Erable and ALG48 installed. The quality of the hardware of the HP48 is much
better than the TI-89. My HP48 has been used hard, and is still is 
flawless.
The TI-89 is a great IC chip surrounded by cheap plastic. I don't see how 
it
could stay intact for even just a few years. Also, the TI-89 is now being
banned from classes at my college. Too powerful, the instructors say! So 
now
several students have gone back to their underpowered TI-85s and TI-86s. 
Most
instructors know nothing about HPs, so they leave me alone. There are far
more programs written for the HP48 than the TI. Indeed, I started 
programming
myself recently. UserRPL on the HP48 is much more logical than TI-basic.
Before I write a book - if you really require heavy duty symbolic
capabilities, get Mathematica. For a calculator, buy an HP48. -J.C. 
Randerson

http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

===
Subject: Re: Symbolic Algebra: How good is the 48 ?
I have a question about this answer:  How much does it cost for an HP48GX
equiped WITH ALG48 and ERABLE (and associated required memory)?  THAT is 
the
price that must be compared to the TI89 cost.  Anything else is beside the
point.  I'm a HP guy too but the question is about the relative symbolic
algebra capabilities of the two basic machines!
Brian Denley
>> How good is the '48 at symbolic algebra? I've been trying to get a
>> feel by lurking on the group for a while, but without much success.
>> Can it do eliminations/simplifications ?
>> Can it solve (systems of) equations symbolically ?
>> Can it solve ODEs ?
>> How would you go about solving, for instance, exp(x)-x <= 1 ?
>> (answer: x<0), or maybe something which almost all packages appear
>> to be able to handle, such as x + sqrt(x)=1  ?
>> I'm just trying to get a feel for what this calculator can & can't do
>> compared to a computer-based CAS package such as Maple or Mathematica.
>> Rick
>> Rick: Right up front - I'm an HP man. But I'm also a gadget nut, so I
also
>have the TI-89. So maybe I can help you compare machines. With symbolic
>algebra, there is little difference between the HP48 with the ALG48 and
>Erable programs installed and the TI-89.  The difference is mostly command
>syntax. Personally, I much prefer manipulating expressions with the HP48
>better. Entering large expressions is a snap with the HP's Equation 
Writer.
>With the TI-89 you may use 20 pairs of nested parentheses with some 
physics
>equations! And then have to edit your expression several times before you
get
>few more indefinite integrals. The Derive software of the TI-89 is 
terrific
>with integration. The TI-89 is easier to use out of the box. The learning
>curve is definitely shorter with the TI. The TI is also cheaper, and does
not
has
>ain't entirely true. You only have about 188K for programs. The rest is
use-
>less unless you want to store a lot of notes. Memory management on the 
HP48
>matrices are handled much better on the HP48. The Erable and ALG48 
programs
>do a much better job handling symbolic matrices than the TI-89. Indeed, I
>would not do a linear algebra course with anything other than the HP48 
with
>Erable and ALG48 installed. The quality of the hardware of the HP48 is 
much
>better than the TI-89. My HP48 has been used hard, and is still is
flawless.
>The TI-89 is a great IC chip surrounded by cheap plastic. I don't see how
it
>could stay intact for even just a few years. Also, the TI-89 is now being
>banned from classes at my college. Too powerful, the instructors say! So
now
>several students have gone back to their underpowered TI-85s and TI-86s.
Most
>instructors know nothing about HPs, so they leave me alone. There are far
>more programs written for the HP48 than the TI. Indeed, I started
programming
>myself recently. UserRPL on the HP48 is much more logical than TI-basic.
>Before I write a book - if you really require heavy duty symbolic
>capabilities, get Mathematica. For a calculator, buy an HP48. -J.C.
Randerson

>http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

===
Subject: Re: Symbolic Algebra: How good is the 48 ?
I dont think that you can install both Erable and ALG48 without expansion 
cards
for the HP-48GX.  So unless you are opting for those cards, or willing to
upgrade yourself (or pay for dealers that will perform the operation for 
you!),
you have to settle for one or the other.  And get a G+, which has the 
memory
and no (user friendly)  expansion capabilities.  Also you need to figure in 
the
cost of a PC to HP cable.
You should check out the buying guide at www.hpcalc.org for more info on
pricing, etc.
Having done that, Erable, ALG48, and about 300 other programs become 
available
By the way, thank you Bernard, Claude and Mika! :)  et al...
Dennis

===
Subject: Re: Symbolic Algebra: How good is the 48 ?
That's my point:  The (nearly incredibly) high price of HP memory cards
precludes the use of these excellent software upgrades for many.   So 
it
might not be fair to tell someone who is trying to decide between
calculators that the HP48's algebraic capability is x without also 
telling
him/her that it may cost big bucks to implement 'x'.  HP might be smart to
consider dropping the price of those cards to help maintain their customer
base unitl the next machine comes out.  The markup MUST be about 900% now!!
Brian Denley
>I dont think that you can install both Erable and ALG48 without expansion
cards
>for the HP-48GX.  So unless you are opting for those cards, or willing to
>upgrade yourself (or pay for dealers that will perform the operation for
you!),
>you have to settle for one or the other.  And get a G+, which has the
memory
>and no (user friendly)  expansion capabilities.  Also you need to figure 
in
the
>cost of a PC to HP cable.
You should check out the buying guide at www.hpcalc.org for more info on
>pricing, etc.
Having done that, Erable, ALG48, and about 300 other programs become
available
By the way, thank you Bernard, Claude and Mika! :)  et al...
Dennis

===
Subject: Re: Symbolic Algebra: How good is the 48 ?
>That's my point:  The (nearly incredibly) high price of HP memory cards
>precludes the use of these excellent software upgrades for many.   So 
it
>might not be fair to tell someone who is trying to decide between
>calculators that the HP48's algebraic capability is x without also
telling
>him/her that it may cost big bucks to implement 'x'.  HP might be smart to
>consider dropping the price of those cards to help maintain their customer
>base unitl the next machine comes out.  The markup MUST be about 900% 
now!!
I will grant that the HP cards are rather high.  After finally replacing my
beloved G
with a GX, I checked on memory cards.  I was able to buy a 256K TDS GX card
for about $170.  A one meg card is also available for about $400.
Unfortunately,
I also needed a 128K card because of the memory architecture of the HP.
Some
programs won't run from ports 2 and 3, and you can't merge their memory.
So, I
had to spend about $150 for an HP card at the local university bookstore.
For me,
it was an investment in both work and hobby, but I agree, that sort of cost
would
be rough on a lot of students.
One possible solution for those who have the requisite technical skills
would be to
build their own memory cards.  Ironically, I could have taken that path,
since my
boss has those skills, and would have probably jumped on the challenge.
But, I
didn't care to wait until we could both find the time to do it.  I may 
still
consider it
at a later date.  Shoot, if I wanted to invest the money, I could probably
go into the
and a bit of soldering....  They wouldn't look as nice as the HP cards
(packaging
is often the biggest expense in something like this) but I could probably
sell them
at a much lower cost and still make big bucks.  Anyone interested in
investing in
such an endeavor should feel free to contact me by email..... 

===
Subject: Re: Symbolic Algebra: How good is the 48 ?

>How good is the '48 at symbolic algebra? I've been trying to get a
>feel by lurking on the group for a while, but without much success.
Can it do eliminations/simplifications ?
Yes and no. It depends...
The symbolic abbilities of the HP48 are really limited (and IMHO only
useful sometimes), but there are many math programs which enrich the
abbilities of the calc. Two of the most powerfull programs are Erable
and Alg48. You might take a look in their documentation, to see what
is possible with a 48GX.
You can find these and much more programs at hpcalc.org (see the links
below).
Peter
E-Mail: karpfenteich@gmx.de
_______________________________
Do you know the great Frequently Asked Questions?
http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/
and the superb HP48 Software Archive?
http://www.hpcalc.org
to look for *old* HP48 postings see
http://www.dejanews.com

===
Subject: COMB error ??
Xdisclaimer: No attempt was made to authenticate the sender's name.
Hi
I tried the following
2:2
1:3
COMB
but calc gives error.  Surely there are 8 possible triplet combinations
of two objects.
Is this a bug?
duncan
cochran@sjh.bi.umist.ac.uk

===
Subject: Re: COMB error ??
> 2: 2
> 1: 3
> COMB
  Continuing my psychic research and testing,
  my crystal ball shows me two distinct possibilities:
  o You meant 2 3 ^ (power) rather than COMB (combinations)
  o You meant COMB but reversed the arguments.
> Surely there are 8 possible triplet combinations
> of two objects.
  I make it that 3 2 COMB gives a correct answer of 3,
  while it is '2^3' (or 2 3 ^) which gives 8.
  'COMB(n,r)' equals 'n!/((n-r)!*r!)'
  COMB gives the number of distinct ways of choosing *exactly* r
  objects, out of a set of n objects, rather than the number of
  distinct ways of choosing *any*number* of the objects, e.g.
  'Sum(r=0,n,COMB(n,r))' equals '2^n'
But is it still the same, whether or not I replace the bag?
---
With best wishes from:   John H Meyers   

===
Subject: Re: COMB error ??
> 
> Hi
> 
> I tried the following
> 
> 2:2
> 1:3
> COMB
> 
> but calc gives error.  Surely there are 8 possible triplet 
> combinations of two objects.
> 
> Is this a bug?
> 
> duncan
> cochran@sjh.bi.umist.ac.uk
COMB   Returns the number of combinations of Y items taken X at a time.
In your example, Y = 2 and X = 3.  If you only have two items,
you can't take three at a time.  (Remember that stack level 1 is X,
level 2 is Y, level 3 is Z, and level 4 is T in normal HP RPN 
terminology.)
3 2 COMB returns a value of 3, because the pair combinations of
a, b, and c are ab, bc, and ca.  This is contrasted to the statistical
concept of permutations, handled by the PERM command.  3 2 PERM is 6,
because the permutations are ab, ba, bc, cb, ca, and ac.
You seem to be thinking that, of two items a nd b, three at a time
should be aaa, aab, aba, abb, baa, bab, bba, and bbb.  This is computed 
as 2 3 [y^x]    (two raised to the third power).
While that is an important math concept, it is not the statistical 
combinations concept handled by the COMB command.
Good Day!
Dave.

I do not speak for HP when I post here.

===
Subject: ML programmers look here!
                 MGRID by Daniel Lidstrom 1998-12-04
Description
----
In the book An Introduction... by Jim Donnelly is a sys-rpl program
that draws a grid centered in the display. Right after the program,
Donnelly has suggested to the reader interested in assembly language
to rewrite the horizontal and vertical line drawing loops. It was then
to be posted to comp.sys.hp48 and timed against other peoples programs.
Syntax
------
size rows cols ->
size, rows, and cols are reals specifying the grid. size is the size
of the squares without counting the box boundary lines.
Timings

size    rows cols      Original       MGRID   How many times faster?
----    ---- ----      -       -----   -
1       1       1       65 ms       27 ms        2.4
1       16      8      0.57 s   41 ms      13.9
1       31      65     6.92 s         0.2 s     34.6
6       8       16      1.7 s     68 ms       25 (MINEHUNT field)
1       1       65      0.54 s   36 ms      15
I don't have another ml program to compare with. I suggest you try
and make one!
Source
------
Source can be compiled with ASS that comes with Jazz. The compiled program 
can
be found on my homepage.
****************************************************************************
***
****************************************************************************
***
** Name: MGRID
** Machine: SX/GX
** Language: sys-rpl, ml
** Interface: %size %rows %cols ->
** Abstract: Draws in the display a centered grid. %size specifies the size
** of each square without counting box boundaries.
** Author:      Daniel Lidstrom
**             Nackstav. 22C
**             853 52  Sundsvall
**             Sweden
**             email: danli97@ite.mh.se
**             www: http://www.ite.mh.se/~danli97/
** Technical:
** History:     v 1.0 1998-12-04        first release    DL
**
****************************************************************************
***
****************************************************************************
***
ASSEMBLE
UnScroll        EQU      #13695 U
RPL
::
 0LASTOWDOB!
 CK3NOLASTWD
 CK&DISPATCH1
 3REAL
 ::
  COERCE2 ROT COERCE #1+
  DUP ROT #* #1+ DUP BINT_131d
  #> case SETSIZEERR
  OVER 4ROLL #* #1+
  DUP 63 #> case SETSIZEERR
  ClrDA1IsStat TOADISP
  UnScroll TURNMENUOFF
  CLEARVDISP
  SIXTYTHREE OVER #-#2/
  DUP ROT #+-1 BINT_131d
  4PICK #-#2/ DUP 5ROLL #+-1
( #size+1 #toprow #botrow #lfcol #rtcol )
CODE
sSHORT  EQU        1         flag indicating row fits inside single nibble
        GOSBVL   =SAVPTR
        GOSBVL   =D0->Row1   D0->top left row
        GOSBVL   =POP2#
        R1=A.F   A       left x
        C=C-A    A
        C=C+1    A
        R2=C.F   A       no. of pixels/row
        GOSBVL   =POP2#
        R3=A.F   A       top y
        C=C-A    A
        R4=C.F   A       column length
        GOSBVL   =POP#
        R0=A.F   A       size+1
        C=R4.F   A
        ACEX     A
        GOSBVL   =IntDiv           C[A]=no. of horizontal lines
        RSTK=C            keep counter here
        CD0EX
        A=R3.F   A       y
        A=A+A    A         2*y
        B=A      A
        ASL      A             32*y
        A=A+B    A         34*y
        C=C+A    A
        A=R1.F   A
        ASRB.F   A
        ASRB.F   A       x >> 4
        C=C+A    A
        D0=C                  D0->top left nibble of grid
* compute D0 new line add amount
* this will be added to D0 when it is time to draw a new line
        C=0      A
        A=0      A
        LC(2)    34
        A=R0.F   B
        GOSBVL   =MUL#               B[A]=34*(size+1)
        B=B-1    A         left mask compensation
* compute masks
* left mask
        ST=0     sSHORT         assume larger grid
        C=R2.F   A
        D=C      A
        D=D-CON  A,4         assume mask is 4 pixels
        GOC      rtX         if smaller, only right mask
        LCHEX    F         4 pixels
* shift mask
        A=R1.F   B
        ?ABIT=0  0
        GOYES    +
        C=C+C    P
        D=D+1    A
+       ?ABIT=0 1
        GOYES    +
        C=C+C    P
        C=C+C    P
        D=D+1    A
        D=D+1    A
+       CSRC
        B=C      S             B[S]=left mask
* compute amount to compensate for middle part of row in D0 add amount
        C=D      A
        CSRB.F   A
        CSRB.F   A       x >> 4
        C=C+1    A         compensate for right mask
        B=B-C    A         subtract
        ?D=0     A           any more pixels?
        GOYES    +         no, skip this mask
* right mask
rtX     D=D+CON       A,4           if D[A]<0, we have a small grid
        GONC     +
        ST=1     sSHORT         flag small grid
        D=D+CON  A,4         fix D[A] for next instruction
+       D=D-CON A,8               D[A]-=4
        A=R1.F   A
        C=R2.F   A
        A=A+C    A
        A=A-1    A         A[A]=right x coordinate of grid
* shift mask
        LCHEX    F
        ?ABIT=1  0
        GOYES    +
        CSRB.F   P
        D=D+1    A
+       ?ABIT=1 1
        GOYES    +
        CSRB.F   P
        CSRB.F   P
        D=D+1    A
        D=D+1    A
+       CSRC
        D=C      S             D[S]=right mask
        C=C+1    S         if mask == F we must adjust B[A]
        GONC     +
        B=B+1    A         adjust D0 add amount
* masks computed
* start drawing
+       A=0     W
        A=A-1    W         64 pixels
        DSRB.F   A
        DSRB.F   A       4 pixels/nibble
--      ?ST=1  sSHORT           small grid?
        GOYES    lastX
        C=B      S
        DAT0=C   S       left mask
        D0=D0+   1
* compute counters
        C=D      A      P=C    0         P=nibbles mod 16      CSR  
  A             C[A]=nibbles/16        C=C-1   A           trap 0 case
    GOC     + -     DAT0=A  W           write   D0=D0+  16           C=C-1   
A
      GONC    - +     P=P-1                 trap 0 case     GOC     doneX  
DAT0=A  WP   write last nibbles doneX   CD0EX       ?P=     15   
  GOYES   setD0   C+P+1            advance D0 setD0          D0=C     P= 
    0 lastX C=D     S       DAT0=C  S                   write right mask     
   
D0=D0+  1  CD0EX      C=C+B  A     add D0 add amount   D0=C 
                   D0 -> next row  C=RSTK  C=C-1   A         RSTK=C  GONC    
-- 
            done?
****************************************************************************
*
** * time to draw vertical lines ( a lot easier! )
****************************************************************************
*
**   C=R4.F  A       C=C-1   A          C=C-1   A             R4=C.F  A      
     
no need to draw top y and bottom y      A=R2.F A A=A-1     A      
C=R0.F  A  GOSBVL     =IntDiv       RSTK=C      RSTK=lines   
  GOSBVL  =D0->Row1       C=R3.F  A     C=C+1   A     y         
C=C+C   A       2*y  B=C        A        CSL      A             32*y 
  C=C+B   A             34*y   C=C+A   A         R2=C.F  A             top
left of grid        A=R1.F  A             left x  CAEX    A         D=C     
A
              D[A]=C[A]=x * shift bit --      LA(1)   1       ?CBIT=0 0      

GOYES   +   A=A+A       A +     ?CBIT=0 1     GOYES + A=A+A     A    
  A=A+A   A +     CSRB.F  A   CSRB.F  A                 C[A] = x >> 4  
AR2EX.F A       C=C+A   A   AR2EX.F A   D0=C           D0 ->
current x of line         C=R4.F  A       B=C   A                 B[A] = y
counter -      C=DAT0  A       C=C!A   P               or pixel in     
DAT0=C
 1              write   D0=D0+  16         D0=D0+  16       D0=D0+  2        
  
   D0 down one     B=B-1   A          GONC    -       C=R0.F  A    D=D+C   A 

             D[A] = next x   C=RSTK  C=C-1   A            done? (*)          
 
RSTK=C  C=D        A         set C[A] = x      GONC   --     loop
if no carry in (*)         GOVLNG  =GETPTRLOOP ENDCODE 5DROP  SetDAsTemp    

     ( freeze display )  ; ;
/Daniel Lidstrom
danli97@ite.mh.se
http://www.ite.mh.se/~danli97/
http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

===
Subject: Cherche conseil pour DOC de PROG.
    Venant de m'acheter une HP48GX , je voudrais faire de la programmation.
Le probl.8fme c'est que je n'ai pas de doc de prog pour guider mes 
premiers
pas sur la machine.
    Je cherche de la doc efficace et optimis.8e pour la HP48 pour eviter 
de
devoir construir une biblioth.8fque pour y mettre les bouquins sans 
interet.
    Merci d'avance pour les bons conseils
            Y.GEORGEAIS

===
Subject: Re: Cherche conseil pour DOC de PROG.
Yann a .8ecrit:
>Venant de m'acheter une HP48GX , je voudrais faire de la programmation.
>Le probl.8fme c'est que je n'ai pas de doc de prog pour guider mes 
>premiers pas sur la machine.
Invitation au voyage est gentil pour le langage machine, mais il faut
de l'information plus technique pour exploiter le LM, que j'ai 
trouv.8e
dans un autre bouquin (et encore, pour en avoir discut.8e avec Jean-Yves,
le bouquin que j'ai est par endroits une copie de Voyage en 2
volumes).
Tu veux programmer sous quel langage?
-Gilb-
43E2 61F7 4ECA 6A7C AAFE  FE2F C1B1 FFE6 D7B0 48E3

===
Subject: Re: Cherche conseil pour DOC de PROG.
Vous peut trouver l'information essenciale a
http://www.hpcalc.org
et aussi
dans le FAQ pour le HP48 du Andre Schoorl
qui se trouve ici:-)
(Sorry for my funnyfrench, it's not my native language;-)
Au revoir
Raymond
Raymond Hellstern -Magic48ges- Email: 101.165571@germany.net

===
Subject: How can i use .lib files ?
I have dowloaded some .lib files, but i don't know i to execute them!!
I have hp48gx
THANKS
--
****************************************
Sito   : http://members.xoom.com/paolo20
ICQ    : 11660099
****************************************

===
Subject: Re: How can i use .lib files ?
In most cases, call the library to the stack and enter the port number
(i.e. 0) then hit STO.   Then turn the calc off then back on again...
The green button and the 2 key allow you to use the library...
-Jerrod

===
Subject: Re: How can i use .lib files ?
what's involved in the call the library to the stack step? could 
someone
elaborate on this?
Thnx
<36687CBB.8AE24336@excite.removethispart.com>...
>In most cases, call the library to the stack and enter the port number
>(i.e. 0) then hit STO.   Then turn the calc off then back on again...
>The green button and the 2 key allow you to use the library...
-Jerrod

===
Subject: Re: How can i use .lib files ?
Call to the stack mean to put the program you have just downloaded on the
stack. Do this by pressing the key which corresponds with the file you
download in the VAR menu. It should appear somthing like 992: JAZZ or
something similar. You will need to PURGE the program once it is on stack 
to
free some space up.
>what's involved in the call the library to the stack step? could 
someone
>elaborate on this?
Thnx
><36687CBB.8AE24336@excite.removethispart.com>...
>>In most cases, call the library to the stack and enter the port number
>>(i.e. 0) then hit STO.   Then turn the calc off then back on again...
>>The green button and the 2 key allow you to use the library...
>>-Jerrod


===
Subject: How can i use .lib files ?
I have dowloaded some .lib files, but i don't know i to execute them!!
I have hp48gx
THANKS
--
****************************************
Sito   : http://members.xoom.com/paolo20
ICQ    : 11660099
****************************************

===
Subject: How can i use .lib files ?
I have dowloaded some .lib files, but i don't know i to execute them!!
I have hp48gx
THANKS
--
****************************************
Sito   : http://members.xoom.com/paolo20
ICQ    : 11660099
****************************************

===
Subject: How can i use .lib files ?
I have dowloaded some .lib files, but i don't know i to execute them!!
I have hp48gx
THANKS
--
****************************************
Sito   : http://members.xoom.com/paolo20
ICQ    : 11660099
****************************************

===
Subject: Please help... 3-4 minutes only...
     Sorry about the TOTALLY unrelated post, but for my
     Honors Lab Biology class, we have to survey a diverse
     group of people (a large amount,too) on the ethics of
     genetic biotechnology and such. If you or someone you
     know would be interested in answering yes or no questions
     concerning a certain topic on an application of DNA
     engineering and its ethics, please go to 
     http://home.att.net/cgi-bin/MFEntry?owner=ho4th
     P.S. If you are unable to reply by Tuesday, December 8th...
     don't worry about it.
     -THANK YOU IN ADVANCE, 
      Jerrod Hofferth

===
Subject: HP48GX IR Printer Support
I have just aquired an HP82240 IR printer and I have four calculators that
support it (48GX, 28S (2) and 27S).  Of the three, the 48 seems to have the
weakest support for the printer.  I cannot find a trace comand the 
simply
prints (echos) whatever you calculate.  Does anybody else use this printer
with the 48?
Brian Denley

===
Subject: Re: HP48GX IR Printer Support
> I have just aquired an HP82240 IR printer and I have four calculators 
that
> support it (48GX, 28S (2) and 27S).  Of the three, the 48 seems to have 
the
> weakest support for the printer.  I cannot find a trace comand the 
simply
> prints (echos) whatever you calculate.  Does anybody else use this 
printer
> with the 48?
Extracted from Goodies Disk #1 (dated 1990, original author unknown):
If you want to use the equivalent of TRACE on the 28, you can use
vectored ENTER to help you.
Enter the programs:
alphaENTER (25.5 bytes, #CA4Dh) [Get alpha by [blue][A] in alpha mode.]
<< PR1 OBJ-> >>
and
betaENTER (118.5 bytes, #F6B1h) [Get beta by [blue][B] in alpha mode.]
<<
  IF DUP  ==
  THEN DROP ?
  END 'KEY' ->TAG PR1 DROP
  IF DEPTH
  THEN DUP 1 ->TAG
  ELSE [Empty Stack]
  END PR1 DROP
>>
Set flags -62 (user mode) and -63 (vectored ENTER). Make sure the output
is sent to the right device (IR or wire).
[Note: the correct way to write alphaENTER is GaENTER, but I left 
the
author's original text as it was.  -jkh-]
Another (later) version of the above program can also be found in the
HP48G Advanced User's Reference Manual on page 2-53.
Hope this helps!
-jkh-
http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

===
Subject: Re: HP48GX IR Printer Support
> I have just aquired an HP82240 IR printer and I have four
> calculators that support it (48GX, 28S (2) and 27S).  Of these,
> the 48 seems to have the weakest support for the printer.
> I cannot find a trace comand that simply prints (echos)
> whatever you calculate.
  Once again, the common theme emerges that instead of built-in
  functions that you can find on the keyboard or in menus,
  a trace command is left to a little bit of extra programming
  which you can add yourself; the details are in the optional
  HP AUR guide.  There are even several useful functions
  from the TEACH command that are in the ROM, but not
  generally accessible for everyday use, unless you have
  the once-posted LIBEVAL list for invoking them,
  or simply copy them into your own variables.
  Allowing the user to add so much individual customizing is
  quite a powerful ability in the HP48, but at the same time,
  for the mass audience of people who want everything handed to them
  so that they need not do anything at all from their side,
  it may have cost HP some market share to have made a product
  that is so capable, but is not as well appreciated to be so.
  I happen to like the HP48 very well as it is, but one day
  I'm going to be the only one left who does :)
> Does anybody else use this printer with the 48?
  I bought a printer; then the cost of the thermal paper
  went through the roof.  Meanwhile, my PC cable
  offers even greater printing capability
  (with the aid of a graphics capture program on the PC).
  My HP82240B is still here on my desk, though;
  it makes a really great paperweight :)
Yeah, okay, what about the trace program, right?
Nobody buys the AUR just for that, right?
<< PR1 OBJ-> >> 'GaENTER' STO  @ Greek Alpha (alpha right A)
<< PR1 DROP PRSTC >> 'GbENTER' STO     @ Beta (alpha right B)
  -63 SF  @ You must set the Custom/Vectored Enter flag.
  -62 SF  @ You must also have User (keyboard) mode turned on.
  -34 CF  @ For print commands to always use the IR device.
The exact variable names 'AlphaENTER' and 'BetaENTER'
(with Greek first character in each name) must be used,
as expected by inbuilt ROM functions.
Turn off User mode whenever you want to stop tracing
(if this conflicts with your desire to maintain user key
assignments, make yourself a function to flip flag -63 instead).
I do not know whether PR1 turns off the I/O circuit
after each use; perhaps you should append a CLOSEIO
to each of the above programs, if you find that your
batteries need changing more often than your kids' diapers
when you use your new trace feature :)
---
With best wishes from:   John H Meyers   

===
Subject: Re: HP48GX IR Printer Support
Yeah, okay, what about the trace program, right?
>
You might want to also check out the following for some more info on
the Trace Mode Printing:
http://www.hp.com/calculators/index.html
Service & Support -> Application Notes -> HP48GX Series -> How do I
do Trace Mode Printing

===
Subject: Re: HP48GX IR Printer Support
John:
start typin' that in right now!
Brian Denley
> I have just aquired an HP82240 IR printer and I have four
>> calculators that support it (48GX, 28S (2) and 27S).  Of these,
>> the 48 seems to have the weakest support for the printer.
>> I cannot find a trace comand that simply prints (echos)
>> whatever you calculate.
  Once again, the common theme emerges that instead of built-in
>  functions that you can find on the keyboard or in menus,
>  a trace command is left to a little bit of extra programming
>  which you can add yourself; the details are in the optional
>  HP AUR guide.  There are even several useful functions
>  from the TEACH command that are in the ROM, but not
>  generally accessible for everyday use, unless you have
>  the once-posted LIBEVAL list for invoking them,
>  or simply copy them into your own variables.
  Allowing the user to add so much individual customizing is
>  quite a powerful ability in the HP48, but at the same time,
>  for the mass audience of people who want everything handed to them
>  so that they need not do anything at all from their side,
>  it may have cost HP some market share to have made a product
>  that is so capable, but is not as well appreciated to be so.
  I happen to like the HP48 very well as it is, but one day
>  I'm going to be the only one left who does :)
> Does anybody else use this printer with the 48?
  I bought a printer; then the cost of the thermal paper
>  went through the roof.  Meanwhile, my PC cable
>  offers even greater printing capability
>  (with the aid of a graphics capture program on the PC).
  My HP82240B is still here on my desk, though;
>  it makes a really great paperweight :)
Yeah, okay, what about the trace program, right?
Nobody buys the AUR just for that, right?
<< PR1 OBJ-> >> 'GaENTER' STO  @ Greek Alpha (alpha right A)
<< PR1 DROP PRSTC >> 'GbENTER' STO     @ Beta (alpha right B)
  -63 SF  @ You must set the Custom/Vectored Enter flag.
  -62 SF  @ You must also have User (keyboard) mode turned on.
  -34 CF  @ For print commands to always use the IR device.
The exact variable names 'AlphaENTER' and 'BetaENTER'
>(with Greek first character in each name) must be used,
>as expected by inbuilt ROM functions.
Turn off User mode whenever you want to stop tracing
>(if this conflicts with your desire to maintain user key
>assignments, make yourself a function to flip flag -63 instead).
I do not know whether PR1 turns off the I/O circuit
>after each use; perhaps you should append a CLOSEIO
>to each of the above programs, if you find that your
>batteries need changing more often than your kids' diapers
>when you use your new trace feature :)
---
>With best wishes from:   John H Meyers   

===
Subject: Seeking Survey Instrument software
I would like to link my 48gx to electronic total stations as used by
surveyors. So far I have written a connection programme for Topcon gear and
some sokkia instruments. I am particularly interested in linking to leica
gear.  Any help appreciated
Mike

===
Subject: Where to Get the HP48 FAQ
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Where to Get the HP48 FAQ
This document briefly describes where to get the latest version of the
comp.sys.hp48 FAQ.  The main site is:
  http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/faq/
All formats of the FAQ are available at the above link, including the text,
PostScript, HTML, and SGML versions.
Text Postings
Text only versions of the FAQ will be posted to the newsgroup comp.sys.hp48
and comp.sources.hp48 as needed (usually every two weeks).  Also, remember
that all official FAQs (including this one) are mirrored at rtfm.mit.edu.
Specifically, this one is at:
  ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/comp.sys.hp48/
Furthermore, the text FAQ is posted to comp.answers and news.answers.
I will sign all text versions with PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) using the
following key for authenticity, and provide MD5 Checksums for the remaining
files.  You can get a copy of this public key through the URL above.
Type Bits KeyID    Created    Expires    Algorithm       Use
sec+ 1024 2CFAA0BB 1997-06-21 --- DSS             Sign and Encrypt
sub  2048 F940E148 1997-06-21 --- Diffie-Hellman
uid  Andre P. Schoorl 
Alternate Sites
Alternatively, you can download the FAQ at one the following locations:
  North America:
  
  Latest:
    ftp://ftp.cis.com/pub/hp48g/uploads/
  Older:
    ftp://hpcvbbs.cv.hp.com/dist/hp48g/docs/
    ftp://ftp.cis.com/pub/hp48g/documentation/
  Europe:
  
  Latest:
    ftp://ftp.stud.fh-heilbronn.de/pub/systems/hp48/incoming/
  Older:
    ftp://ftp.stud.fh-heilbronn.de/pub/systems/hp48/info/FAQ/
  Translations:
  ------
  Espanol (Spanish):
    http://www.alumnos.utfsm.cl/~aarrieta/hp48.html
  Portugues (Portugese):
    http://members.tripod.com/~area48/
Contacting Me
I rely on your input in order to keep this FAQ up to date.  If you have any
suggestions or updates, feel free to mail them to me.  My current address 
is:
    aschoorl@engr.uvic.ca
If you're using a web enabled news reader, you can click here:
    mailto:aschoorl@engr.uvic.ca
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQA/AwUBNgQVJ+hzXOws+qC7EQLPPgCgiNAYT2b921GdNg7pGqtgKFQ1RRIAoPyG
ZJjwHZ6Tv9/FH+GzqmijC0Sw
=bBXh
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- 
Andre Schoorl    PGP key available on 
request/keyserver
Comp Engineering, UVic, Canada  Linux/HP48  
http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~aschoorl/

===
Subject: Copy ROM to PC
I've to copy my HP48GX's rom to my computer to use an emulator.
How can I do?
Should I use a Kermit ?
and what is a Kermit?
tnx

===
Subject: Re: Copy ROM to PC
>I've to copy my HP48GX's rom to my computer to use an emulator.
>How can I do?
>Should I use a Kermit ?
>and what is a Kermit?
First, of course, you need a cable to connect your HP to your computer.
Then you will need a ROM dump program, which usually comes with the
emulator.  Finally, most of the ROM dump programs require a copy of Kermit,
which is a program that enables you to transfer data between two systems.
Kermit is rather old, and is not used much anymore, but it is available 
from
several places, including
the HP Software Archives at:
http://hp48.ml.org/
In fact, you should find everything you need at that site.
Tommy Usher

===
Subject: Structural Engineering Programs for the HP-48GX
Originator: civan@eskimo.com
If anyone is interested in Structural Engineering programs for the
HP-48/SX/GX calculator please email me at:
civan@eskimo.com
Please make sure your email address is correct. I have sent information to
various addresses which have bounced. I can't send to an unknown
address it won't get you the information that you desire.
civan
-- 
**************************************************************************
| civan@eskimo.com      ~  CHUCK  DINSMORE P.E. S.E. ~       Seattle, WA.|
| NG Jacobson & Assoc.      www.shoshone.com/NGJ/            Seattle, WA.| 
**************************************************************************

===
Subject: eqstk usage?
I have just finished installing Erable on my Hp48GX; after playing with the
system for half an hour, I notice that my stack has reduced from 5 lines to
4
I tried to read the readme.doc that came with eqstk but there wasn't any
usage documentation
Can anyone help?
thnx in advance

===
Subject: Re: eqstk usage?
Push eqstk once more. Trere are two font types.
Eva
--
> I have just finished installing Erable on my Hp48GX; after playing with 
the
> system for half an hour, I notice that my stack has reduced from 5 lines 
to
> 4
 I tried to read the readme.doc that came with eqstk but there wasn't any
> usage documentation
 Can anyone help?
 thnx in advance

===
Subject: Re: eqstk usage?
I noticed the same thing with eqstk the first time I used it. This may or 
may
not be your problem, but if you haven't discovered it yet, you will :)
Eqstk is actually a program that is running all the time on the HP48. If it 
is
inturrupted (by pressing the ON key, or another program) it will stop 
working. 
Depending on how this occurred, sometimes you can get it to start up again 
by
pressing CONT once or twice, then entering ASTK.  If this doesnt work, you 
need
to press ON-C (resets the calc). Then ASTK gets you rolling every time.  
The
disadvantage is that if you have used the GXKEYS they need to be reloaded.
The best solution I have found is simply to pay closer attention to the
hourglass at the top of the stack.  If it is on, dont press any keys.  
Since
I have started doing this, I have had no problems.
Dennis

===
Subject: HELP : program to write chemical reactions ?
I'm looking for a program to write some chemical reactions.
I've looked for it in the FAQ but I've not found anything...
and also...
I'm searching for a ready collection of reactions about 
1) water strenght?? (I don't know how to say it in English)
      it's about Ca++ and Mg++ iones in water , and misures with 
¡F
2) termochemical reactions
I need to put them inside of my hp48gx for an exam !
Saluti da Fabry !
****************************************************************************
*****
f.galia@studenti.to.it    ICQ: 13397767
http://www.poli.studenti.to.it/~f.galia --> civil engineering, hp48gx, 
umorismo 

===
Subject: ROM.48G
I need ROM.48G for an emulator of hp48gx
can anyone send me this file ?
Write me before send it, i'll give u another e-mail address
THANKS
--
****************************************
Sito   : http://members.xoom.com/paolo20
ICQ    : 11660099
****************************************

===
Subject: Q: Feeling of a HP48G+
I liked the old HP calculators for their stable and
compact case (HP1xC series). Compared to them the
HP48GX feels clumsy and in a sense cheap. This was
already a thread in this group, so now my question:
Do the HP48G and the new HP48G+ come in the same
case as the HP48GX or a smaller, tighter one? 
Georg Bisseling
alfter@cs.uni-bonn.de

===
Subject: Re: memory management
<73e1kk$d4s$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>All that follows is actually completely transparent to the UserRPL user;
>You may have scared the poor guy into thinking he manually has to go
>and write stuff to hex adresses in order to obtain data from the correct
>port!
>The only thing to mention is that the card in slot 2 is divided into 128Kb
>'ports' and that you cannot 'cross the boundaries'.  You can access all 
the
>ports, but you cannot treat them as one.
Okay, I am just a bit confused.....  I only recently bought a GX and memory
cards, and am still learning the ins and outs of memory usage.  With a 128K
card in slot one, and a 256K card in slot two, I have either 256K in port 
0,
and
128K each in ports 2 and three, or 128k each in ports 0-3.  Now, my 
question
is this....  Is the memory in ports 1, 2, and 3 available for anything 
other
than
libraries and such?  If so, how do I access it?  Did I miss something in 
the
manual?
Tommy Usher

===
Subject: MATH--HE KILLED HIMSELF FOR IT. 
F9621B0A63EA62D70BD776CB
EVA WROTE---
reply to Gerald
The guy (Per) who killed himself just did not have the brains needed so
he
decided to blow them out.............
I don't think the Swedish school tempo is anything to be proud of.
Sweden being a half commie country has a very selective school system.
At age 14 you need to apply into gymnasium (high school). If you mess up
on you grads at age 7-14 you can not get into a engineering high school.
There are other types of  high schools, but good luck getting a job.
Until a few years ago a student was a full blow electrical engineer when
she finished high
school. Because of tax reasons all the high school programs were cut
down to from 4
years to 3 years.
Read in MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.com/news/220448.asp
Everything runs like clock work in Sweden. All high schools programs in
the Sweden have the
exact same books and tempo. This cut back from 4 years to 3 disrupted
the clock work
and lead the universities to complain. The result was that the
gymnasiums had to make up
for the lack of  knowledge by increasing the tempo.
I am studying the technical gymnasium line. Last week a guy commit
suicide in my class because
he could not handle the presser. I have so many exams to study for that
I don't have
time to go to school. At this time of year the sun goes down at 2:00 PM.
I study from about
is passing the
next exam with good grades. If you want to go to a technical university
then you must complete the
technical gymnasium first. Of course with the best grades in the class
!. Every one has to be the best
in the class! Remember if you did not have
the grades as a 14 year old you can not get into technical gymnasium.
Young people who would never touch cigarettes are using methamphimines
to keep there minds alert
in school. Something is  wrong here !!! Math is vary important, as it is
the crutch to all
other subjects. In my physics class we are working heavily with quantum
physics. Today it was
detailed analyzes of Schr.9adings wave equation. Does a 17 year need to
kill themselves
to learn know this stuff ? The guy who killed himself just did not have
the brains needed so he
decided to blow them out !
All lot of other countries think that Swedish people
are dry boring people.... no wonder, there is nothing left of them when
they get out of school !
Swedish people are quick to ridicule to american school system.
Hmmmmm when was the last time Sweden put a man on the moon.
Who kicks Sadams butt ultra high tech toys when he is a bad boy.
Who's hospitals have the coolest toys etc. etc. etc. etc.
All that in only 200 years! 1776-1998 not bad!
Naaaa we don't do much here in Sweden except ANALYZE other peoples
accomplishments and give THEM Nobel prizes.
May the European school corridors rock with Rap music and the
smell of spray paint and pot.
Why not ? It worked for America.
Eva
hellqvisteva@hotmail.com
---
> [...]
> > I am a Swedish 17 years old
> >and might start to study in the USA.
> >Eva
 Read in MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.com/news/220448.asp):
> -----
> [...]
> The Third International Mathematics and Science Study ranked American
> 12th-graders, aged 17 and 18, 18th out of 21 countries ÷ far 
behind
> Sweden
> and the Netherlands and ahead only of Lithuania, Cyprus and South
> Africa.
> [...]
> -----
 So why do you want to leave Sweden for the US?
> (I guess it's for the climate :-)
 Gerald.
F9621B0A63EA62D70BD776CB


EVA WROTE---

reply to Gerald

The guy (Per) who killed himself just did not have the brains needed
so he

decided to blow them out.............

I don't think the Swedish school tempo is anything to be proud of.

Sweden being a half commie country has a very selective school 
system.

At age 14 you need to apply into gymnasium (high school). If you mess
up

on you grads at age 7-14 you can not get into a engineering high 
school.

There are other types of  high schools, but good luck getting
a job.

Until a few years ago a student was a full blow electrical engineer
when she finished high

school. Because of tax reasons all the high school programs were cut
down to from 4

years to 3 years.

Read in MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.com/news/22044
8.asp

Everything runs like clock work in Sweden. All high schools programs
in the Sweden have the

exact same books and tempo. This cut back from 4 years to 3 
disrupted 
the clock work

and lead the universities to complain. The result was that the 
gymnasiums
had to make up

for the lack of  knowledge by increasing the tempo.

I am studying the technical gymnasium line. Last week a guy commit 
suicide
in my class because

he could not handle the presser. I have so many exams to study for
that I don't have

time to go to school. At this time of year the sun goes down at 2:00
PM. I study from about
is passing the

next exam with good grades. If you want to go to a technical university
then you must complete the

technical gymnasium first. Of course with the best grades in the class
!. Every one has to be the best

in the class! Remember if you did not have

the grades as a 14 year old you can not get into technical gymnasium.

Young people who would never touch cigarettes are using methamphimines
to keep there minds alert

in school. Something is  wrong here !!! Math is vary important,
as it is the crutch to all

other subjects. In my physics class we are working heavily with quantum
physics. Today it was

detailed analyzes of Schrödings wave equation. Does a 17 year
need to kill themselves

to learn know this stuff ? The guy who killed himself just did not
have the brains needed so he

decided to blow them out !

All lot of other countries think that Swedish people

are dry boring people.... no wonder, there is nothing left of them
when they get out of school !

Swedish people are quick to ridicule to american school system.

Hmmmmm when was the last time Sweden put a man on the moon.

Who kicks Sadams butt ultra high tech toys when he is a bad boy.

Who's hospitals have the coolest toys etc. etc. etc. etc.

All that in only 200 years! 1776-1998 not bad!

Naaaa we don't do much here in Sweden except ANALYZE other peoples

accomplishments and give THEM Nobel prizes.

May the European school corridors rock with Rap music and the

smell of spray paint and pot.

Why not ? It worked for America.

Eva

hellqvisteva@hotmail.com

---

 

 

 

 

 

[...]

> I am a Swedish 17 years old

>and might start to study in the USA.

>Eva

Read in MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.com/news/22044
8.asp):

-----

[...]

The Third International Mathematics and Science Study ranked American

12th-graders, aged 17 and 18, 18th out of 21 countries ÷ far 
behind
Sweden

and the Netherlands and ahead only of Lithuania, Cyprus and South 
Africa.

[...]

-----

So why do you want to leave Sweden for the US?

(I guess it's for the climate :-)

Gerald.


F9621B0A63EA62D70BD776CB--