HP-339 ===* Subject: Re: Question about an algorithm >> Well, if you will insist on working with completely skewed data sets... In any distribution of a large number of points, > it is likely that the largest single interval between points You're right of course - I should have put a smiley on my post. :-) I can't see any quick way of doing the test. The obvious approach is: 1) Order the points into a circular linked list 2) Starting with the first point... (which has angle A) 3) Scan round the list until you find the point which has an angle > A+180 degrees (or you get back to the beginning again) 4) Count the number of points in the scanned portion of the list 5) Repeat from step 3 with the next point until the whole list has been scanned The semi-circle wanted is the one with the least value at step 4. This has all the computational efficiency of a bubble-sort, but using that sorting analogy suggests that there might be a better way. Plus it needs a bit of fiddling to avoid points falling exactly on the boundary of the semi-circle so that they are in both sides (or neither). -- === Subject: Re: comp.sys.hp35?? > Does anyone have an interest in there being a dedicated group for the > HP35s? > This has been discussed in the past with respect to the HP50 and maybe the 49 and IIRC the general thoughts were that such a move might fragment the expertise and experience in this group. All the HP calculators are welcomed to be discussed here so why not have as many experienced eyes as possible lokking over the posts? === Subject: Re: comp.sys.hp35?? I agree with the replies so far: The optimal solution (it seems to me) is for this newsgroup to be for all HP programmable handheld calculators, with the understanding that posters will try to remember to mention the pertinent model number somewhere in the subject line of each posting. === Subject: Re: comp.sys.hp35?? > Does anyone have an interest in there being a dedicated group for the > HP35s? We can start a pros vs. cons list for making a new group: PRO 1) Too much HP-35 traffic on comp.sys.hp48 - split necessary 2) Better organization of topics. One newsgroup per active calc family? CON 1) Fragment discussion 2) Difficult to make new Big 8 (non-alt) group Add your own. Personally, I don't see the need yet. There's very little traffic of ANY kind. And I like having fewer places vs. more, to look for it. I think that in a year or two, you'll only see one (or zero) topic per month about the 35S -- far too little to sustain a group. If it does turn out to be a problem here, we can think about it then; the news admins certainly won't consider making a new group before then. Until then, I welcome the traffic. === Subject: Re: comp.sys.hp35??> Does anyone have an interest in there being a dedicated group for the > HP35s? We can start a pros vs. cons list for making a new group: PRO > 1) Too much HP-35 traffic on comp.sys.hp48 - split necessary > 2) Better organization of topics. One newsgroup per active calc family? CON > 1) Fragment discussion > 2) Difficult to make new Big 8 (non-alt) group Add your own. It's always seemed to me that this group has always be a defacto ( HP any Calculator group ), based on the assumption; that is almost certainly true, that if you own one HP Calculator, you own all of them; or at least, a large set of them. [ i know many people that collect them like jewelry, but never actually use them...!!! ] { i've done that with a couple myself, but i use my HP48 EVERY STINKING DAY...! } === Subject: Speaking of New Calculators... Wouldn't it be FUN if HP were to create an application for the iPhone that would duplicate -and Extend- the functionality of the HP48 ( et al ) series of calculators...??? === Subject: Re: Speaking of New Calculators... >Wouldn't it be FUN if HP were to create an application for the iPhone >that would duplicate -and Extend- the functionality of the HP48 ( et >al ) series of calculators...??? Doesn't the new HP35s have a phone built-in, just not announced yet? === Subject: Re: Speaking of New Calculators... > Wouldn't it be FUN if HP were to create an application for the iPhone > that would duplicate -and Extend- the functionality of the HP48 ( et > al ) series of calculators...??? suppliment: of course; it would be 'Nice' if HP were to come out with a calculator that had that level of 'friendliness' ( ... ) itself, but i think that most of us have resigned themselves to the apparent fact that HP is never going to do that...??? ( !!! ) === Subject: Re: fast/slow mode 49/50 I can't resist asking: How can you tolerate having FAST mode on *all* > the time? FAST mode makes it impossible to walk the cursor left or FAST served no purpose whatsoever other than showing that my display routines where the fastest of all. The way we used to benchmark the text editor is having a text made of 1000 lines, press the down arrow key and see which program would finish first. Jean-Yves === Subject: eval error: unsimplified sqrt I'm trying to evaluate a double integral, and I get the error eval error: unsimplified sqrt The integral is from -1 to 1 then from -sqrt(-(x^2-1)) to sqrt(- (x^2-1)) of sqrt(-(x^2+y^2-4)) dy dx === Subject: Re: eval error: unsimplified sqrt >I'm trying to evaluate a double integral, and I get the error eval >error: unsimplified sqrt The integral is from -1 to 1 then from -sqrt(-(x^2-1)) to sqrt(- >(x^2-1)) of sqrt(-(x^2+y^2-4)) dy dx > In Number Format Fix 3 and Approximate mode solution is 5.872 in about 11 seconds. === Subject: Re: eval error: unsimplified sqrt >I'm trying to evaluate a double integral, and I get the error eval >error: unsimplified sqrt The integral is from -1 to 1 then from -sqrt(-(x^2-1)) to sqrt(- >(x^2-1)) of sqrt(-(x^2+y^2-4)) dy dx > In Number Format Fix 3 and Approximate mode solution is 5.872 in about > 11 seconds. even if i switch to numeric mode, it does not get the answer within 30 seconds === Subject: Re: eval error: unsimplified sqrt Bytes: 1736 >>I'm trying to evaluate a double integral, and I get the error eval >>error: unsimplified sqrt The integral is from -1 to 1 then from -sqrt(-(x^2-1)) to sqrt(- >>(x^2-1)) of sqrt(-(x^2+y^2-4)) dy dx >> In Number Format Fix 3 and Approximate mode solution is 5.872 in about >> 11 seconds. even if i switch to numeric mode, it does not get the answer within 30 >seconds If calculator is in standard number format it takes 22 minutes to get 5.87236463374 for result. Set it to Fix 3 number mode and you'll get 5.872 for 11 seconds. === Subject: Re: eval error: unsimplified sqrt >>I'm trying to evaluate a double integral, and I get the error eval >>error: unsimplified sqrt >The integral is from -1 to 1 then from -sqrt(-(x^2-1)) to sqrt(- >>(x^2-1)) of sqrt(-(x^2+y^2-4)) dy dx >> In Number Format Fix 3 and Approximate mode solution is 5.872 in about >> 11 seconds. even if i switch to numeric mode, it does not get the answer within 30 >seconds If calculator is in standard number format it takes 22 minutes to > get 5.87236463374 for result. > Set it to Fix 3 number mode and you'll get 5.872 for 11 seconds.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - do you know what the error means? === Subject: Re: eval error: unsimplified sqrt >>I'm trying to evaluate a double integral, and I get the error eval >error: unsimplified sqrt >>The integral is from -1 to 1 then from -sqrt(-(x^2-1)) to sqrt(- >(x^2-1)) of sqrt(-(x^2+y^2-4)) dy dx > If calculator is in standard number format it takes 22 minutes to > get 5.87236463374 for result. > Set it to Fix 3 number mode and you'll get 5.872 for 11 seconds. What model is this? The TI-89 Titanium HW3 takes 7 seconds to get the full answer. === Subject: Re: eval error: unsimplified sqrt >>I'm trying to evaluate a double integral, and I get the error eval >error: unsimplified sqrt >>The integral is from -1 to 1 then from -sqrt(-(x^2-1)) to sqrt(- >(x^2-1)) of sqrt(-(x^2+y^2-4)) dy dx > In Number Format Fix 3 and Approximate mode solution is 5.872 in about > 11 seconds. even if i switch to numeric mode, it does not get the answer within 30 >>seconds If calculator is in standard number format it takes 22 minutes to >get 5.87236463374 for result. >Set it to Fix 3 number mode and you'll get 5.872 for 11 seconds. We are talking about 50G,right? === Subject: Re: eval error: unsimplified sqrt >I'm trying to evaluate a double integral, and I get the error eval >error: unsimplified sqrt >>The integral is from -1 to 1 then from -sqrt(-(x^2-1)) to sqrt(- >(x^2-1)) of sqrt(-(x^2+y^2-4)) dy dx > In Number Format Fix 3 and Approximate mode solution is 5.872 in about > 11 seconds. >even if i switch to numeric mode, it does not get the answer within 30 >>seconds If calculator is in standard number format it takes 22 minutes to >get 5.87236463374 for result. >Set it to Fix 3 number mode and you'll get 5.872 for 11 seconds. We are talking about 50G,right?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - yes, the 50g === Subject: Re: eval error: unsimplified sqrt >I'm trying to evaluate a double integral, and I get the error eval >error: unsimplified sqrt The integral is from -1 to 1 then from -sqrt(-(x^2-1)) to sqrt(- >(x^2-1)) of sqrt(-(x^2+y^2-4)) dy dx > In Number Format Fix 3 and Approximate mode solution is 5.872 in about > 11 seconds. I don't use my calculator to do symbolic integration, but I can point out that this integral is a lot simpler if you convert from Cartesian to polar coordinates. The exact answer rounded to 12 digits is 5.87236463374. -- === Subject: Re: eval error: unsimplified sqrt >I'm trying to evaluate a double integral, and I get the error eval >error: unsimplified sqrt >The integral is from -1 to 1 then from -sqrt(-(x^2-1)) to sqrt(- >(x^2-1)) of sqrt(-(x^2+y^2-4)) dy dx > In Number Format Fix 3 and Approximate mode solution is 5.872 in about > 11 seconds. I don't use my calculator to do symbolic integration, but I can point out > that this integral is a lot simpler if you convert from Cartesian to > polar coordinates. The exact answer rounded to 12 digits is 5.87236463374. > -- how long did it take your calculator to get that answer? === Subject: Re: eval error: unsimplified sqrt Bytes: 2914 >I'm trying to evaluate a double integral, and I get the error eval >error: unsimplified sqrt >The integral is from -1 to 1 then from -sqrt(-(x^2-1)) to sqrt(- >(x^2-1)) of sqrt(-(x^2+y^2-4)) dy dx > In Number Format Fix 3 and Approximate mode solution is 5.872 in about > 11 seconds. I don't use my calculator to do symbolic integration, but I can point out > that this integral is a lot simpler if you convert from Cartesian to > polar coordinates. The exact answer rounded to 12 digits is 5.87236463374. > how long did it take your calculator to get that answer? I didn't use my calculator. I solved the problem by hand to get the exact answer, and then since I couldn't trust the calculator to get the correct last digit, I entered the solution into Mathematica to get many more than 12 digits, then cut and pasted the 12 digit answer. I was able to get an exact answer from my 49G, but it was incorrect. It simplified to '(8+3*v/3)*pi*2/3' while the correct answer has a - in place of the +. The v/ is the square root symbol. -- === Subject: Re: eval error: unsimplified sqrt >I'm trying to evaluate a double integral, and I get the error eval >error: unsimplified sqrt >The integral is from -1 to 1 then from -sqrt(-(x^2-1)) to sqrt(- >(x^2-1)) of sqrt(-(x^2+y^2-4)) dy dx > In Number Format Fix 3 and Approximate mode solution is 5.872 in about > 11 seconds. > I don't use my calculator to do symbolic integration, but I can point out > that this integral is a lot simpler if you convert from Cartesian to > polar coordinates. > The exact answer rounded to 12 digits is 5.87236463374. -- > Hemphill hemph...@alumni.caltech.edu > This isn't flying. This is falling, with style. -- Buzz Lightyear how long did it take your calculator to get that answer? I didn't use my calculator. I solved the problem by hand to get the > exact answer, and then since I couldn't trust the calculator to get > the correct last digit, I entered the solution into Mathematica to > get many more than 12 digits, then cut and pasted the 12 digit answer. I was able to get an exact answer from my 49G, but it was incorrect. > It simplified to '(8+3*v/3)*pi*2/3' while the correct answer has a - in place of the +. The v/ is > the square root symbol. > -- - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - when you used the 49g, did you use rectangular coordinates or did you switch to polar? === Subject: Re: eval error: unsimplified sqrt I'm trying to evaluate a double integral, and I get the error eval >error: unsimplified sqrt >The integral is from -1 to 1 then from -sqrt(-(x^2-1)) to sqrt(- >(x^2-1)) of sqrt(-(x^2+y^2-4)) dy dx > In Number Format Fix 3 and Approximate mode solution is 5.872 in about > 11 seconds. I don't use my calculator to do symbolic integration, but I can point out > that this integral is a lot simpler if you convert from Cartesian to > polar coordinates. The exact answer rounded to 12 digits is 5.87236463374. The answer is not symbolic because the outer integral has number bounds, but I want to do the integral in non-approx. === Subject: Re: eval error: unsimplified sqrt Bytes: 2192 >I'm trying to evaluate a double integral, and I get the error eval >error: unsimplified sqrt >The integral is from -1 to 1 then from -sqrt(-(x^2-1)) to sqrt(- >(x^2-1)) of sqrt(-(x^2+y^2-4)) dy dx > In Number Format Fix 3 and Approximate mode solution is 5.872 in about > 11 seconds. I don't use my calculator to do symbolic integration, but I can point out > that this integral is a lot simpler if you convert from Cartesian to > polar coordinates. The exact answer rounded to 12 digits is 5.87236463374. > -- I was hoping to use the calc to get an exact answer. Do you know what the error means? === Subject: Where will 35S be availiable? Has there been any mention by HP about re-sellers for the 35S? i.e. the usual suspects? Harold A. Climer Dept,Of Physics,Geology & Astronomy U.T.Chattanooga Room 318 Grote Hall 615 McCallie Ave Chattanooga TN 37403 423-425-4546 === Subject: Re: Where will 35S be availiable? > Has there been any mention by HP about re-sellers for the 35S? i.e. > the usual suspects? > Harold A. Climer > Dept,Of Physics,Geology & Astronomy > U.T.Chattanooga > Room 318 Grote Hall > 615 McCallie Ave > Chattanooga TN 37403 > 423-425-4546 It's available now from HP and at less than $60.00 MSRP, don't expect resellers to be able to do much better. Subject: Re: Where will 35S be availiable? I checked hp and all I see is coming soon. Does anyone have a link > that works? http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/215348-215348-64232-200... Well, I ordered it with 2 day delivery. So I might get it this coming week. First order of business: Convert some of my hp33s programs (3x3 equations, linear least squares). Since there is a key labeled Logic, I don't think I will need to convert my truth-table-based logical (and, or, ...) routines. Too bad the labels aren't 2 characters - one (even with goto numeric) is not enough! === Subject: Re: Where will 35S be availiable? <46981f06$0$8955$4c368faf@roadrunner.com> that works? http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/215348-215348-64232-200... Well, I ordered it with 2 day delivery. So I might get it this coming week. First order of business: Convert some of my hp33s programs (3x3 equations, linear least squares). Since there is a key labeled Logic, I don't think I will need to convert my truth-table-based logical (and, or, ...) routines. Too bad the labels aren't 2 characters - one (even with goto numeric) is not enough! === Subject: Re: Where will 35S be availiable? > I checked hp and all I see is coming soon. Does anyone have a link > that works? http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/215348-215348-64232-200... Well, I ordered it with 2 day delivery. So I might get it this coming week. First order of business: Convert some of my hp33s programs (3x3 > equations, linear least squares). Since there is a key labeled > Logic, I don't think I will need to convert my truth-table-based > logical (and, or, ...) routines. Too bad the labels aren't 2 characters - one (even with goto numeric) > is not enough! Hey! They already have 2x2 and 3x3 solvers built in! I am obsolete! I found this by looking at the training modules. Oh well, I'll just have to write a cas:) === Subject: Re: Where will 35S be availiable? > I checked hp and all I see is coming soon. Does anyone have a link > that works? http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/215348-215348-64232-200... Well, I ordered it with 2 day delivery. So I might get it this coming week. First order of business: Convert some of my hp33s programs (3x3 > equations, linear least squares). Since there is a key labeled > Logic, I don't think I will need to convert my truth-table-based > logical (and, or, ...) routines. Too bad the labels aren't 2 characters - one (even with goto numeric) > is not enough! Hey! They already have 2x2 and 3x3 solvers built in! I am obsolete! I found this by looking at the training modules. Oh well, I'll just have to write a cas:) === Subject: Re: Where will 35S be availiable? > I checked hp and all I see is coming soon. Does anyone have a link > that works? >http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/215348-215348-64232-200... > Well, I ordered it with 2 day delivery. So I might get it this coming week. First order of business: Convert some of my hp33s programs (3x3 > equations, linear least squares). Since there is a key labeled > Logic, I don't think I will need to convert my truth-table-based > logical (and, or, ...) routines. Too bad the labels aren't 2 characters - one (even with goto numeric) > is not enough! Hey! They already have 2x2 and 3x3 solvers built in! I am obsolete! I found this by looking at the training modules. Oh well, I'll just have to write a cas:) Hey^2! Note this from the training manual on indirect addressing: Warning: If you store a zero into memory location 100, the HP 35s will dynamically reclaim all zero indirect storage registers starting with 100 and working down. This can cause quite a shock when you're not expecting it in a program or calculation. What happens if a program stores a value of zero indirectly? Will all the lower registers get cleared? I sure hope not! === Subject: Re: Where will 35S be availiable? Hey! They already have 2x2 and 3x3 solvers built in! I am obsolete! I found this by looking at the training modules. Oh well, I'll just have to write a cas:) Hey^2! Note this from the training manual on indirect addressing: Warning: If you store a zero into memory location 100, the HP 35s will dynamically reclaim all zero indirect storage registers starting with 100 and working down. This can cause quite a shock when you're not expecting it in a program or calculation. What happens if a program stores a value of zero indirectly? Will all the lower registers get cleared? I sure hope not! === Subject: Re: Where will 35S be availiable? > I checked hp and all I see is coming soon. Does anyone have a link > that works? > Well, I ordered it with 2 day delivery. > So I might get it this coming week. > First order of business: Convert some of my hp33s programs (3x3 > equations, linear least squares). Since there is a key labeled > Logic, I don't think I will need to convert my truth-table-based > logical (and, or, ...) routines. > Too bad the labels aren't 2 characters - one (even with goto numeric) > is not enough! > Hey! They already have 2x2 and 3x3 solvers built in! I am obsolete! I found this by looking at the training modules. Oh well, I'll just have to write a cas:) Hey^2! Note this from the training manual on indirect addressing: Warning: If you store a zero into memory location 100, the HP 35s will > dynamically reclaim all zero indirect > storage registers starting with 100 and working down. This can cause > quite a shock when you're not expecting it in a program or > calculation. What happens if a program stores a value of zero indirectly? Will all > the lower registers get cleared? I sure hope not! Hi Martin. Be sure to read the 35s review found here: http://www.hpcc.org/datafile/V26Special/the35s.pdf I think that's why the language used states that indirect registers are *dynamically* allocated based upon the highest numbered, non-zero indirect register. A specific warning is given in that review that if you want to keep 100 indirect registers allocated, it is probably best to store a non- zero value into the 101st indirect register to keep them allocated. Gene === Subject: Cancel Re: eval error: unsimplified sqrt Control: cancel <05qf935fqg3q5f6luqdc4r4hfvuq9b42bh@4ax.com> === Subject: Hilarious review of HP 35s Note: This isn't spam, curious.human, even if you're getting loud false positives from your defective internal spam detector. Want a good laugh? Check this out before it goes away: http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/13/hp-celebrates-35th-anniversary-of-hp-35-l aunches-35s-calculator/ === Subject: Re: Hilarious review of HP 35s > Note: This isn't spam, curious.human, even if you're getting loud > false positives from your defective internal spam detector. Want a good laugh? Check this out before it goes away: http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/13/hp-celebrates-35th-anniversary-of-... Very funny! Dorktic-loins? How about the comment posted that includes this story: One HP-12C was used by a zoo keeper to calculate feed mixtures. The zoo keeper dropped the calculator and it was consumed by a hippopotamus. The calculator survived the hippo's digestive process as well as the washing that followed. That one's hard to top. Take that, TI! :-) === Subject: Re: HP35s announced...lots of details inside > The HP 35s is finally announced! I've been using it for months and > really like this new model. On the HP 35s webpage found at www.hp.com/calculators, there are 55 > learning modules for your download. Link to all 55 in one zip: http://h20331.www2.hp.com/Hpsub/downloads/35s.zip HPCC.org has graciously put up a link to my review of the HP 35s that > appears in their special HP 35s Datafile issue which you can read/ > downloaded there later today. There is also a link to the review > posted on the HP Museum forum. Be sure to check out the review and all the other goodies in the > special HP 35s issue of Datafile. Join now! :-) Highlights of the HP 35s: ** Two index registers, regular variables I and J. Dedicated i > register is gone. > ** 801 indirect registers plus 32 other registers (A through Z and > stat registers). > ** Indirect registers dynamically allocated based on highest non-zero > value containing indirect register. > ** Each indirect register allocated uses 37 bytes of available program > memory. > ** Index values of 0 through 800 reference the indirect registers. > ** Index values of -1 to -26 reference A through Z. > ** Index values of -27 to -32 access stat registers. > ** The index registers are no longer in the middle of the address > space as on the 33s. ** 26 global labels with dynamic line number GTO and XEQ instructions. > ** Transfer execution to any line number within any program. > ** Add / delete a step and the GTO/XEQ instructions renumber > themselves appropriately. > ** They keep pointing where you want them to point. > ** Programs limited to 999 lines per label now. A001 through A999, > B001 through B999, etc. > ** Since each program line uses at least 3 bytes, 1000 lines equals > 3000 bytes. 26 labels x 3000 bytes is more than available memory. > ** 20 subroutine levels now available. ** The stack can hold 4 full complex numbers. > ** 2-D and 3-D vectors as a new data type. > ** The stack can hold 4 vectors, 2-D or 3-D. > ** No direct P->R or R->P conversions. Change display mode instead. > Polar parts can be separated. ** Equations no longer limited to 255 characters. > ** Ability for non-destructive editing of equations using left cursor. ** New LOGIC functions work on base-N numbers. OR, NOR, NOT, AND, XOR, > NAND ** Algebraic mode equation/stack tricks work in RPN mode providing > very useful stack methods. > ** A program line of REGTxREGZxREGYxREGX will find the product of all > four stack registers and store the result in X. Only T would be lost. > ** If you roll the stack down, the program line of REGTx2 will double > the value previously in X without losing any stack levels. ** Learning module available allowing for 2400 real numbers to be > stored/recalled in indirect registers using 3-D vectors. Stack is > preserved by this program. Shows many techniques for creating, > modifying values in vectors and the indirect registers. matrix utilities programs M1, M2, M3, M4, M5 along with BE and BX. All > that is needed now to find the determinant of a 28x28 matrix or the > inverse of an 18x18 matrix is the equivalent RRM style program. (Yes, > I've been working on one but it isn't finished yet!) ** Algebraic mode now operates much more like an equation operating > system than the HP 33s algebraic mode did. > ** Key a long calculation in ALG mode and press ENTER. To go back and > revise one part of that calculation, press the left cursor key, go > back and make your change, then press ENTER again. For more, read the review! Hmm... I already have the 48G (which I just recently got the LCD fixed in from fixthatcalc.com). I'm considering buying this calculator but can't see any reason to other than the shear coolness of it. I mean, is there anything the 35-s can do that the 48g can't? === Subject: Re: HP35s announced...lots of details inside is there anything the 35-s can do that the 48g can't? I doubt it. In terms of functions alone, everything that the 35s can do, the 48g can either do natively or with a little programming. For example, the 3 fraction modes of the 35s are all very different from the ->Q function in the 48g, but the 48g can be easily programmed to emulate any of the fraction modes of the 35s. Wait a sec: One thing that the 35s *can* do that the 48g cannot do, is easily accept many HP-41 programs! However, I do not know of any HP-41 programs that have not been ported to the 48g (and improved along the way). Oh yeah: Another thing that the 35s can do that the 48g cannot do is easily fit in a shirt pocket. And run for a long time on one set of batteries (two CR2032 button 3V cells). And impress those who prefer the retro style of the 35s. :-) Hmm... I'll probably end up getting it anyway. Graphing calculators aren't allowed in Calc III :-D Subject: Re: HP35s announced...lots of details inside Bytes: 1325 > Only $60? I think this one is a definite YES. Can't wait until it's > available for purchase by us normal folk! I ordered mine this morning on the HP Website. Go to it! === Subject: Re: HP35s announced...lots of details inside Only $60? I think this one is a definite YES. Can't wait until it's > available for purchase by us normal folk! It's available now. Go to HP's website and order online. They will begin shipping next Tuesday, July 17th. === Subject: Re: HP35s announced...lots of details inside >> Only $60? I think this one is a definite YES. Can't wait until it's > available for purchase by us normal folk! It's available now. Go to HP's website and order online. They will >> begin shipping next Tuesday, July 17th. Coming soon. Please check back soon. http://www.shopping.hp.com/product/handhelds/calculators/1/storefronts/F2215A A%2523ABA Where do you see a button to order from? Bob Try clearing your cache. It's definitely there. I've gotten my order confirmation from HP. http://preview.tinyurl.com/332msx === Subject: Re: HP35s announced...lots of details inside >> Only $60? I think this one is a definite YES. Can't wait until it's >> available for purchase by us normal folk! >> It's available now. Go to HP's website and order online. They will > begin shipping next Tuesday, July 17th. >Coming soon. Please check back soon. http://www.shopping.hp.com/product/handhelds/calculators/1/storefronts/F2215A A%2523ABA Where do you see a button to order from? Bob Try clearing your cache. It's definitely there. I've gotten my order > confirmation from HP. http://preview.tinyurl.com/332msx Now the link above says coming soon (weird!). Fr. Joe Horn's link does work, however. === Subject: Re: HP35s announced...lots of details inside The HP 35s is finally announced! I've been using it for months and >really like this new model. On the HP 35s webpage found at www.hp.com/calculators, there are 55 >learning modules for your download. Link to all 55 in one zip: http://h20331.www2.hp.com/Hpsub/downloads/35s.zip HPCC.org has graciously put up a link to my review of the HP 35s that >appears in their special HP 35s Datafile issue which you can read/ >downloaded there later today. There is also a link to the review >posted on the HP Museum forum. Be sure to check out the review and all the other goodies in the >special HP 35s issue of Datafile. Join now! :-) Highlights of the HP 35s: ** Two index registers, regular variables I and J. Dedicated i >register is gone. >** 801 indirect registers plus 32 other registers (A through Z and >stat registers). >** Indirect registers dynamically allocated based on highest non-zero >value containing indirect register. >** Each indirect register allocated uses 37 bytes of available program >memory. >** Index values of 0 through 800 reference the indirect registers. >** Index values of -1 to -26 reference A through Z. >** Index values of -27 to -32 access stat registers. >** The index registers are no longer in the middle of the address >space as on the 33s. ** 26 global labels with dynamic line number GTO and XEQ instructions. >** Transfer execution to any line number within any program. >** Add / delete a step and the GTO/XEQ instructions renumber >themselves appropriately. >** They keep pointing where you want them to point. >** Programs limited to 999 lines per label now. A001 through A999, >B001 through B999, etc. >** Since each program line uses at least 3 bytes, 1000 lines equals >3000 bytes. 26 labels x 3000 bytes is more than available memory. >** 20 subroutine levels now available. ** The stack can hold 4 full complex numbers. >** 2-D and 3-D vectors as a new data type. >** The stack can hold 4 vectors, 2-D or 3-D. >** No direct P->R or R->P conversions. Change display mode instead. >Polar parts can be separated. ** Equations no longer limited to 255 characters. >** Ability for non-destructive editing of equations using left cursor. ** New LOGIC functions work on base-N numbers. OR, NOR, NOT, AND, XOR, >NAND ** Algebraic mode equation/stack tricks work in RPN mode providing >very useful stack methods. >** A program line of REGTxREGZxREGYxREGX will find the product of all >four stack registers and store the result in X. Only T would be lost. >** If you roll the stack down, the program line of REGTx2 will double >the value previously in X without losing any stack levels. ** Learning module available allowing for 2400 real numbers to be >stored/recalled in indirect registers using 3-D vectors. Stack is >preserved by this program. Shows many techniques for creating, >modifying values in vectors and the indirect registers. matrix utilities programs M1, M2, M3, M4, M5 along with BE and BX. All >that is needed now to find the determinant of a 28x28 matrix or the >inverse of an 18x18 matrix is the equivalent RRM style program. (Yes, >I've been working on one but it isn't finished yet!) ** Algebraic mode now operates much more like an equation operating >system than the HP 33s algebraic mode did. >** Key a long calculation in ALG mode and press ENTER. To go back and >revise one part of that calculation, press the left cursor key, go >back and make your change, then press ENTER again. For more, read the review! Gene I was looking at the list of exams for which the 35s can be used, and saw no mention of the Engineering and Surveying exams( US). Any ideas if this new HP calc will meet their requirements? Several of my engineering students who are also calc nuts have been asking. They say they want to be prepared, whatever that means. Harold A Climer University of Tennessee at Chattanooga Dept of Physics,Geology,& Astronomy Room 309 Grote Hall 615 McCallie Ave Chattanooga TN 37403 Harold-Climer@utc.edu === Subject: hp 49g+: Accessing variables in subdirectories in my current work directory on the hp49g+, I have a sub-directory called QW. In that directory, there is a variable called A. How can I access (store/recall) A from the current work directory from within a User RPL program? I tried to access A through an analogon to the port directory access, like :QW:A but that failed, and neither did something along the lines of QW/A or QWA work. ?? === Subject: Re: hp 49g+: Accessing variables in subdirectories > Hi all, in my current work directory on the hp49g+, I have a sub-directory > called QW. In that directory, there is a variable called A. How can > I access (store/recall) A from the current work directory from within > a User RPL program? I tried to access A through an analogon to the port directory access, > like > :QW:A > but that failed, and neither did something along the lines of > QW/A or QWA > work. ?? > Try {QW A} EVAL. This can also be part of a program, e.g., << . . . {QW A} EVAL 1 GET . . . >> will give you the first element of A, if A happens to be a vector. === Subject: Re: hp 49g+: Accessing variables in subdirectories === Subject: Re: HP-35S in the UK come September > My apologies for another 35S post. > Anyway, for the British out there here's a link http://shop.wfsleath.co.uk/index.asp?function=DISPLAYPRODUCT&productid=184 I don't think apologies are necessary. Discussion about the 35s is welcome! === Subject: Re: HP50 Programming: How to input a eqation? Did you have to RTFM in order to learn how to be an arrogant prick? > I'm new HP50 user. I had a hard time with input a equation to a >> variable in programming mode. I want to write a program for my Numerical Analysis class. First I >> want to user input a equation and a starting point then using >> numerical methond to solve the equation. For example, input a equation >> and start point x0 then use Newton's method to solve the equation. How >> do I input a equation in my program? === Subject: Re: HP50 Programming: How to input a eqation? > Did you have to RTFM in order to learn how to be an arrogant prick? That *was* quite rude of him... === Subject: Re: HP50 Programming: How to input a eqation? << 43.3 KEYEVAL >> Will launch the Equation writer. On exit, you will get the equation on the stack or nothing if it was exited using [ON]. You therefore might want to use DEPTH in your program. Arnaud === Subject: Re: HP50 Programming: How to input a eqation? === Subject: Re: HP50 Programming: How to input a eqation? Subject: HP35S Trig accuracy??? Can someone that has a new HP35S tell the answer it gives for the Tan of 89.999 degrees in degree mode?? === Subject: Re: HP35S Trig accuracy??? > Can someone that has a new HP35S tell the answer it gives for the Tan > of 89.999 degrees in degree mode?? According to Gene Wright's review ( http://www.hpcc.org/datafile/V26Special/the35s.pdf , pg 10) the COS bug still remains. === Subject: Re: HP35S Trig accuracy??? > Can someone that has a new HP35S tell the answer it gives for the Tan > of 89.999 degrees in degree mode?? 57,295.7795401 === Subject: Re: HP35S Trig accuracy??? > Can someone that has a new HP35S tell the answer it gives for the Tan > of 89.999 degrees in degree mode?? 57,295.7795401 > My HP50G gets 57295.7795073 wich is more accurate. Both cals claim to use 15 digits internally, so I presume the new 35S uses a different less accurate algorithm for trig functions. === Subject: Re: HP35S Trig accuracy??? <140720071548220530%zeno333@mindspring.com ... so I presume the new 35S uses a different > less accurate algorithm for trig functions. Apparently the new 35s uses the same old 33s trig algorithm, as discussed here: http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv016.cgi?read=103989 Both calculators give the same answers to SIN(3.14159265358) in radians mode! Gerson. === Subject: Re: HP35S Trig accuracy??? >> Can someone that has a new HP35S tell the answer it gives for the Tan >> of 89.999 degrees in degree mode?? 57,295.7795401 And, what does it get for SIN(3.14159265358) in radians mode? === Subject: Re: HP35S Trig accuracy??? And, what does it get for SIN(3.14159265358) in radians mode? 9.79323846264 E-12 === Subject: Re: HP35S Trig accuracy??? >> Can someone that has a new HP35S tell the answer it gives for the Tan >> of 89.999 degrees in degree mode?? 57,295.7795401 Ouch! My cheap Sharp EL-501V gives 57,295.7795077 (the two last digits are invisible in the display but are stored internally - they get visible if you e.g. subtract 57295 from the result), which is too high by 5 in the last (12th) digit. The correct result is: 57295.77950726455670336557673692926714230029179474968519524911...... -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/ === Subject: Re: HP35S Trig accuracy??? > Ouch! My cheap Sharp EL-501V gives 57,295.7795077 (the two last digits are > invisible in the display but are stored internally - they get visible > if you e.g. subtract 57295 from the result), which is too high by 5 > in the last (12th) digit. The correct result is: 57295.77950726455670336557673692926714230029179474968519524911...... And even better we have...... 57295.779507264556703365576736929267142300291794749685195249112998500120 666114920655076157988655907809292668340590864833306288678931875119223967 221544992224481414570462680812484128975634455256275571824988781939392462 51761969058580872207032369732652173 :) I love the smell of extra decimal digits in the morning. === Subject: Re: HP35S Trig accuracy??? > Ouch! >> My cheap Sharp EL-501V gives 57,295.7795077 (the two last digits are >> invisible in the display but are stored internally - they get visible >> if you e.g. subtract 57295 from the result), which is too high by 5 >> in the last (12th) digit. The correct result is: >> 57295.77950726455670336557673692926714230029179474968519524911...... And even better we have...... > 57295.779507264556703365576736929267142300291794749685195249112998500120 > 666114920655076157988655907809292668340590864833306288678931875119223967 > 221544992224481414570462680812484128975634455256275571824988781939392462 > 51761969058580872207032369732652173 > :) I love the smell of extra decimal digits in the morning. What program did you use to calculate that? Out of curiosity. === Subject: Re: HP35S Trig accuracy??? Bytes: 2483 >> My cheap Sharp EL-501V gives 57,295.7795077 (the two last digits are >> invisible in the display but are stored internally - they get visible >> if you e.g. subtract 57295 from the result), which is too high by 5 >> in the last (12th) digit. The correct result is: >> 57295.77950726455670336557673692926714230029179474968519524911...... And even better we have...... > 57295.779507264556703365576736929267142300291794749685195249112998500120 > 666114920655076157988655907809292668340590864833306288678931875119223967 > 221544992224481414570462680812484128975634455256275571824988781939392462 > 51761969058580872207032369732652173 > :) I love the smell of extra decimal digits in the morning. What program did you use to calculate that? Out of curiosity. Mathematica 6.0 I could have gone to extremes but I held back ;) ;) Mathematica 6 is very very fast in computing Pi by the way. Its as fast as many AGM programs, but they can only compute Pi to a power of 2, where Mathematica can compute to any given decimal place. Not sure how Mathematica 6 computes Pi though. === Subject: Re: HP35S Trig accuracy??? My cheap Sharp EL-501V gives 57,295.7795077 (the two last digits are > invisible in the display but are stored internally - they get visible > if you e.g. subtract 57295 from the result), which is too high by 5 > in the last (12th) digit. The correct result is: 57295.77950726455670336557673692926714230029179474968519524911...... > The original HP-35 gives 57296.55162. However, the HP-67 introduced only four years later gives 57295.77951. Gerson. === Subject: Re: HP35S Trig accuracy??? Can someone that has a new HP35S tell the answer it gives for the Tan > of 89.999 degrees in degree mode?? 57,295.7795401 The good old HP-32SII returns 57,295.7795073. Even my RPN program for the 12C Platinum returns the correct 10-digit answer: 57,295.77951 (57,295.7795071 internally). Perhaps HP should revised this page: http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product.asp?sku=3587762&pagemode=ca Have confidence that every time you turn on your HP calculator, every calculation you make, results in dependable, worry-free performance and accurate results. I will get one just the same. I think I won't be able to wait for the bug-free edition :-) Gerson. === Subject: Re: HP35S Trig accuracy??? > Perhaps HP should revised this page: http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product.asp?sku=3587762&pagemode=ca Have confidence that every time you turn on your HP calculator, every > calculation you make, results in dependable, worry-free performance > and accurate results. I will get one just the same. I think I won't be able to wait for the > bug-free edition :-) The first version of the original 35 had math errors too http://www.classiccmp.org/calcmuseum/HP35errata.txt and look how much one of those goes for these days! === Subject: Re: HP35S Trig accuracy??? The first version of the original 35 had math errors too http://www.classiccmp.org/calcmuseum/HP35errata.txt and look how much one of those goes for these days! Surely, but there was a recall as soon as the bug was discovered. In the case of the HP-67, an addendum to the manual was included. Just an excerpt: Page 92, Trigonometric Functions. Add the following paragraphs: There exist several specific argument values for which sin^-1 (and to a lesser degree, cos^-1) are in error to an extent that could be excessive for some applications. However, these arguments are very small in magnitude and thus infrequently encountered by most users. The six specific arguments affected and the resulting errors for sin^-1x are: x = 0.000003000 (0.6%), 0.000004000 (2.5%), 0.000005000 (4.0%), 0.000006000 (7.0%), 0.000007000 (9.0%), 0.000008000 (11.5%), No other values are affected. Notice that changing the magnitude of the above arguments by as little as +/-0.00000001 eliminates the larger-than-normal error. By the way, my HP-67 (1709A00099) returns 0.000511078 for arcsin(0.000008) instead of the correct 0.000458366. How much is it worth ? :-) Gerson. === Subject: Re: HP35S Trig accuracy??? > Can someone that has a new HP35S tell the answer it gives for the Tan > of 89.999 degrees in degree mode?? 57,295.7795401 The good old HP-32SII returns 57,295.7795073. Even my RPN program for > the 12C Platinum returns the correct 10-digit answer: 57,295.77951 > (57,295.7795071 internally). Perhaps HP should revised this page: http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product.asp?sku=3587762&pagemode=ca Have confidence that every time you turn on your HP calculator, every > calculation you make, results in dependable, worry-free performance > and accurate results. I will get one just the same. I think I won't be able to wait for the > bug-free edition :-) Gerson. Your HP-35s may turn out to be more valuable than a more bug-free 35s many years from now. Somewhat like an old mis-printed stamp.... -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/ === Subject: Re: HP35S Trig accuracy??? Perhaps HP should revised this page: > Perhaps I should revise my post :-) Well, let's hope Gene's been using a pre-production HP-35s... === Subject: Blowfish algorithm implemented on hp49g+? Hi all, has anyone implemented the Blowfish encryption algorithm on the hp49g +? Hpcalc.org had no software listed, so I'm trying my luck here. === Subject: Re: Blowfish algorithm implemented on hp49g+? Am 14.07.2007, 16:40 Uhr, schrieb Kuyumcu : > Hi all, has anyone implemented the Blowfish encryption algorithm on the hp49g > +? Hpcalc.org had no software listed, so I'm trying my luck here. That might be done best by compiling a C version into native ARM code. OpenSSL used to have some hand-optimized implementations (some algorithms for some CPUs). For sure they will have good enough C code in their library. === Subject: Re: Blowfish algorithm implemented on hp49g+? : Hi all, has anyone implemented the Blowfish encryption algorithm on the hp49g > +? Hpcalc.org had no software listed, so I'm trying my luck here. > That might be done best by compiling a > C version into native ARM code. OpenSSL used to have some hand-optimized > implementations (some algorithms for some > CPUs). For sure they will have good enough > C code in their library. with a User RPL program and maybe convert to System RPL (in which I am still a rookie...). === Subject: HP Calcs retailer in Las Vegas? Bytes: 1331 I think I asked this question before... Does anyone know of a retailer in Las Vegas? I will be there in August and would like to get a few calcs at US Dollar prices whilst there. -Mark === Subject: How to convert a hex STRING to the hex number object Hi all, how can you convert a string like #a6b16532h to the equivalent hex number object in User RPL on a hp49g +? === Subject: Re: How to convert a hex STRING to the hex number object Bytes: 1667 > Hi all, how can you convert a string like > #a6b16532h to the equivalent hex number object in User RPL on a hp49g > +? > For one thing, hex digits should be upper case and the # should be followed by a space in hp48/49/50 lingo. # A6B16532h STR-> or # A6B16532h OBJ-> will convert the string to a hex number. Note that the h should remain in lower case. === Subject: Re: How to convert a hex STRING to the hex number object Hi all, how can you convert a string like > #a6b16532h to the equivalent hex number object in User RPL on a hp49g > +? > For one thing, hex digits should be upper case and the > # should be followed by a space in hp48/49/50 lingo. # A6B16532h STR- or > # A6B16532h OBJ- > will convert the string to a hex number. Note that the h should remain in lower case. b, c, d, and e. I find that the space behind the # sign is not necessary, though. === Subject: Re: How to convert a hex STRING to the hex number object Bytes: 2296 > Hi all, > how can you convert a string like > #a6b16532h to the equivalent hex number object in User RPL on a hp49g > +? > For one thing, hex digits should be upper case and the > # should be followed by a space in hp48/49/50 lingo. # A6B16532h STR- or > # A6B16532h OBJ- > will convert the string to a hex number. Note that the h should remain in lower case. b, c, d, and e. I find that the space behind the # sign is not > necessary, though. Yes. I discovered that the space is not needed AFTER posting. === Subject: Re: 14 HP 35s questions & answers Bytes: 1670 > It appears that you can order the 35S today on the HP website. I > stumbled upon it when I was looking at the various learning modules, > and a buy now button was available. It doesn't look like they will > ship though until July 17th though if ordered today. Right now (5:30 pm, pacific time, 7/14/07) it says Coming soon:( If it were available, I would order it (unless it were on hpcalc). === Subject: Re: 14 HP 35s questions & answers > 14 posted questions about the HP 35s > Answered by Joe Horn upcoming July/August 2007 issue (V26 N4)of Datafile magazine, > available only in printed form, at http://hpcc.org > It's gonna be chock-full of HP 35s goodies available nowhere else. by Dr. xxx xxx (can't remember the name) about the rational for the Hp-65 design. As I remember HP was surprised by all the user interest in programming. They'd thought users would use programmability to add a few new/overlooked first level key functions. No idea it'd take off like it did. Actually, the first personal computer! === Subject: Re: 14 HP 35s questions & answers <4696fa45$0$25582$4d3efbfe@news.sover.net 14 posted questions about the HP 35s > Answered by Joe Horn http://pssllc.com/mb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=346 I have posted some pictures of my new 35s and a few comments. The only interesting thing I have that you haven't already seen is the fabulous case. It is actually usable. A little strap holds in the calculator while leaving all keys and screen visible. A little mesh pocket for stuff is on the other half. You don't have to take the calc out to use it. Very solid, very nice calculator. If you are still concerned that HP calculators will never be what they were, this unit will change your mind. The arrow keys, which some people have done nothing but moan ruin the whole thing. . . well you are just wrong and get over it. They look and feel great. TW === Subject: Re: 14 HP 35s questions & answers > The arrow keys, which some people have > done nothing but moan ruin the whole thing. . . well you are just > wrong and get over it. They look and feel great. TW Remember when the hp49g came out and suddenly the hp48's big ENTER key was shrunk and relegated to the lower righthand corner of the keyboard? I was told that this was a concession to the algebraic users. That was a significant error in my opinion. Somehow it wasn't recognized as such until the 35s which corrects this for the first time since 1999. Remember when the hp33s came out and suddenly the clever way the 32s and 32sII allowed the LCD to be used as soft-key menu labels (and thus kept menu choices incredibly simple, like all the other Pioneer models) was gone? I don't know why this change was made, but again, it is a significant error in my opinion. Unfortunately, the 35s fails to correct this mistake. While the 49 and 50 have the arrow keys, they were smart enough to leave the top row of keys intact so it could map to the LCD. Why this wasn't fixed on the 35s other than it being simpler to leave the the 33s firmware (which was a starting point for the 35s) alone still mystifies me. I guess this was considered a low priority. To me, it represents a step backward in the user interface. Jake Schwartz === Subject: Re: 14 HP 35s questions & answers did you see the reincarnation of the 17bII(+) , with the same housing as the 35s, but a straighter keyboard layout for the top right keys, and the display capable of displaying the well-known menus? Too bad they didn't use that display in the 35s Even if the 35s doesn't correct all the mistakes they made during the last decade, it's a promising step into the right direction IMHO. At least the worst mistake has been corrected: The ENTER bar has returned to where it belongs:-) >> The arrow keys, which some people have >> done nothing but moan ruin the whole thing. . . well you are just >> wrong and get over it. They look and feel great. TW > Remember when the hp49g came out and suddenly the hp48's big ENTER key > was shrunk and relegated to the lower righthand corner of the > keyboard? I was told that this was a concession to the algebraic > users. That was a significant error in my opinion. Somehow it wasn't > recognized as such until the 35s which corrects this for the first > time since 1999. Remember when the hp33s came out and suddenly the clever way the 32s > and 32sII allowed the LCD to be used as soft-key menu labels (and thus > kept menu choices incredibly simple, like all the other Pioneer > models) was gone? I don't know why this change was made, but again, it > is a significant error in my opinion. Unfortunately, the 35s fails to > correct this mistake. While the 49 and 50 have the arrow keys, they > were smart enough to leave the top row of keys intact so it could map > to the LCD. Why this wasn't fixed on the 35s other than it being > simpler to leave the the 33s firmware (which was a starting point for > the 35s) alone still mystifies me. I guess this was considered a low > priority. To me, it represents a step backward in the user interface. Jake Schwartz === Subject: Re: 14 HP 35s questions & answers Remember when the hp33s came out and suddenly the clever way the 32s > and 32sII allowed the LCD to be used as soft-key menu labels (and thus > kept menu choices incredibly simple, like all the other Pioneer > models) was gone? I don't know why this change was made, but again, it > is a significant error in my opinion. Unfortunately, the 35s fails to > correct this mistake. While the 49 and 50 have the arrow keys, they > were smart enough to leave the top row of keys intact so it could map > to the LCD. Why this wasn't fixed on the 35s other than it being > simpler to leave the the 33s firmware (which was a starting point for > the 35s) alone still mystifies me. Please note that they DID fix it in one respect: unlike the 33s, the 35s lets you execute ANY item in a menu by pressing its corresponding number, EVEN IF IT ISN'T IN THE DISPLAY, thus making it unnecessary to flip through multiple menu pages or shove the cursor around with the arrow keys. If you want the 9th menu item, even if it is on a page of the menu that isn't showing, just press the 9 key, and *blammo* it is immediately executed. For menu items 10 through 19, you press [.] and then the second digit. That makes all menu items 1 through 9 executable in ONE keystroke, and 10 through 19 in at most two keystrokes. That's FEWER keystrokes than even the soft-key menu label system you refer to. Less importantly, but still important in my mind, is the way that this numeric shortcut access to menu items lets your fingers stay down by the number keys where they spend most of their time anyway. On the 33SII and similar machines, *all* menu items required you to jump to the top row of keys. Not a big deal, of course, but I really like the efficient way the 35s minimizes finger travel. For example, Clear Stack (which I use a lot) can executed by pressing [blue][backspace] [5]. Although that's the same number of keystrokes as the 33SII, the fingers are always around the digit keys. Some menus still require a keystroke near the screen (to launch the menu itself) but then your fingers (or thumb!) can return to the number keys right away. I really like that keyboard efficiency. Yes, it's not a big deal, but it shows that HP *was* aware of the inefficiency of the newer menu system, and to my mind they fixed that inefficiency. The 35s menu system is more efficient than the menu systems of both the 33s and the 32SII. None of that addresses the unsolvable problem of *personal preference* for one or the other menu system, of course. I'd just like to state for the record that the HP 35s menu system was well thought out, and that some of us do in fact prefer the 35s menu system (but not the 33s menu system) over the 32SII menu system. === Subject: Re: 14 HP 35s questions & answers > Please note that they DID fix it in one respect: unlike the 33s, the > 35s lets you execute ANY item in a menu by pressing its corresponding > number, EVEN IF IT ISN'T IN THE DISPLAY, thus making it unnecessary to > flip through multiple menu pages or shove the cursor around with the > arrow keys. If you want the 9th menu item, even if it is on a page > of the menu that isn't showing, just press the 9 key, and *blammo* it > is immediately executed. For menu items 10 through 19, you press [.] > and then the second digit. That makes all menu items 1 through 9 > executable in ONE keystroke, and 10 through 19 in at most two > keystrokes. That's FEWER keystrokes than even the soft-key menu > label system you refer to. I still wish they had included a row of dedicated function keys. Most of my old HP (and TI for that matter) programs used them heavily for input of variables and calculation of results. === Subject: Re: 14 HP 35s questions & answers >> 14 posted questions about the HP 35s >> Answered by Joe Horn http://pssllc.com/mb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=346 I have posted some pictures of my new 35s and a few comments. The > only interesting thing I have that you haven't already seen is the > fabulous case. It is actually usable. A little strap holds in the > calculator while leaving all keys and screen visible. A little mesh > pocket for stuff is on the other half. You don't have to take the > calc out to use it. Very solid, very nice calculator. If you are > still concerned that HP calculators will never be what they were, this > unit will change your mind. The arrow keys, which some people have > done nothing but moan ruin the whole thing. . . well you are just > wrong and get over it. They look and feel great. It doesn't matter how often you say it. The cursor keys *do* ruin it, and no matter how they feel, they look *horrible* and no other conceivable feature could compensate for that. Without them, that calculator would be great; with them, it is absolutely and irredeemably unacceptable. -- Wayne Brown (HPCC #1104) [CapitalThorn].bes ofereode, [CapitalYAcute]isses swa m.beg. (That passed away, this also can.) from Deor, in the Exeter Book (folios 100r-100v) === Subject: Re: 14 HP 35s questions & answers Bytes: 2247 >> 14 posted questions about the HP 35s >> Answered by Joe Horn http://pssllc.com/mb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=346 I have posted some pictures of my new 35s and a few comments. The > only interesting thing I have that you haven't already seen is the > fabulous case. It is actually usable. A little strap holds in the > calculator while leaving all keys and screen visible. A little mesh > pocket for stuff is on the other half. You don't have to take the > calc out to use it. Very solid, very nice calculator. If you are > still concerned that HP calculators will never be what they were, this > unit will change your mind. The arrow keys, which some people have > done nothing but moan ruin the whole thing. . . well you are just > wrong and get over it. They look and feel great. TW > So, Tim, from where did you get it? Bob === Subject: Re: 14 HP 35s questions & answers <4696fa45$0$25582$4d3efbfe@news.sover.net> My wife entered a video in that cacluator thing and we were one of the > 8 finalists. We had the little awards ceremony last night and the > gift box they gave us had one. Did she tell you that she had sent in the tape from the kitchen security camera before or after it won? (That is what happens normally in your house, isn't it?) ;-) -- === Subject: Re: 14 HP 35s questions & answers Bytes: 2086 >> So, Tim, from where did you get it? Well, last weekend while driving through Boise to go to my wife's > family reunion, I stopped at Cyrilles house. The window in the > babie's room was left ajar; it was like taking candy from a > baby. . . ;-) My wife entered a video in that cacluator thing and we were one of the > 8 finalists. We had the little awards ceremony last night and the > gift box they gave us had one. TW > Tim, We all hate you. I'll give you $35 for it. That's a fair deal for a used calculator. You'll never get another offer like this one. Bob === Subject: Re: 14 HP 35s questions & answers > Q14. When will it be formally announced? > A14. Right NOW (Thursday 12 July 2007). Actually, the HP35S was announced within the last week when it > appeared on HP's website. I thought so too, but was asked by HP to wait until what THEY called the official announcement date (today). They also said that there is a difference between (a) officially announcing a product and (b) putting it in their online store. I'm sorry to admit that I do not comprehend the rationale behind that statement (if there IS any rationale!) but since I agreed with HP not to say anything until HP's *official* product announcement, that's what I did. Sorry if it seemed to be claiming to be something that it wasn't. Today is in fact the product announcement date for the HP 35s, according to HP, not according to me. > Pure unadulterated spam. > So much for your pathetic attempt at a scoop. > Now, please go and beg for membership money somewhere else. Huh? I am not even a member of the London group, nor did they ask me to mention them. I was privy to advance knowledge of their upcoming issue's focus on the HP 35s, and was happy to share that information with you. Not all sharing of knowledge is motivated by greed. This one was motivated simply by my enthusiastic excitement over the New HP's second great calculator (the 50g being the first). No good deed goes unpunished. http://holyjoe.net/poetry/adams3.htm === Subject: Re: 14 HP 35s questions & answers > Huh? I am not... Please do not feed the troll. -- === Subject: Re: 14 HP 35s questions & answers > Pure unadulterated spam. > Actually, the HP35S was announced within the last week when it > appeared on HP's website. > So much for your pathetic attempt at a scoop. > Now, please go and beg for membership money somewhere else. Well now, isn't that special? I have to ask, who the heck do you think you are? And what have *you* contributed to this discussion? Joe Horn has busted his backside for many years to contribute usefully to the user community (ever hear of the Goodies Disks, for example?) for the pure joy of doing so, asking nothing in return, and then some lame brain like you who doesn't have the courage to use his real name posts something as nasty and uncalled for as that. Do us all a favor, don't post until you get a clue and some manners. For one, I am deeply appreciative of Joe's contributions through the years and hope others recognize his efforts and will try to do the same, to help one another to make the most efficient use of their machines. === Subject: Re: 14 HP 35s questions & answers Bytes: 1479 > Is this really Joe? On 6-1 he said he was going on a 3 month vacation in the mountains with NO INTERNET. Chapin === Subject: Re: 14 HP 35s questions & answers Is this really Joe? On 6-1 he said he was going on a 3 month vacation in the > mountains with NO INTERNET. Chapin Perhaps Joe posted from BITNET or through UUCP ? :-) -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/ === Subject: Re: 14 HP 35s questions & answers <_u2dnagtpo14OQvbnZ2dnUVZ_jKdnZ2d@comcast.com Is this really Joe? On 6-1 he said he was going on a 3 month vacation in the > mountains with NO INTERNET. Now I know the name of my guardian angel. ;-) Yes, it's me, taking a 1-week vacation from my vacation. I return to The Hinterlands this Saturday evening. I'll be able to reply to email and/or postings === Subject: Re: 14 HP 35s questions & answers Bytes: 1948 > Is this really Joe? On 6-1 he said he was going on a 3 month vacation in >> the >> mountains with NO INTERNET. Now I know the name of my guardian angel. ;-) Yes, it's me, taking a > 1-week vacation from my vacation. I return to The Hinterlands this > Saturday evening. I'll be able to reply to email and/or postings > LOL, having withdrawals are you? Have fun upon your return to your vacation! Chapin === Subject: Re: 14 HP 35s questions & answers Bytes: 2373 ----- Q12. i hate those 4 directional keys... HP really needs to start installing a Flush One button Joystick...??? A12. HP already tried that with the 4-way-arrow button on the HP 33s, and got more complaints than kudos for their effort. Possibly the concept is good but their implementation was poor. If you believe that to be the case, please explain what they did wrong, and how to do it better, or they'll have very little incentive to take that chance again. -------------------------- i was just the other day playing around on a game joystick at 'Best Buy' and it had this cute little black button that was raised a little above the surface, but ideally, i think that it could be flat flushed, or even resessed a little and would move not only it 4 compass like directions but with 360 degree sensativity... Plus; you'd depress it a little, ( adjustable..??? ) to move it and press harder to 'click' it... The net effect here is that once your finger were on it, you would'n't have to move your finger from left to right, up or down on the keypad, as with the 33 or 9g, it would just 'wiggle' back and forth...??? === Subject: Re: 14 HP 35s questions & answers Bytes: 2644 > i was just the other day playing around on a game joystick at 'Best > Buy' and it had this cute little black button that was raised a little > above the surface, but ideally, i think that it could be flat flushed, > or even resessed a little and would move not only it 4 compass like > directions but with 360 degree sensativity... > Plus; you'd depress it a little, ( adjustable..??? ) to move it and > press harder to 'click' it... > The net effect here is that once your finger were on it, you would'n't > have to move your finger from left to right, up or down on the keypad, > as with the 33 or 9g, it would just 'wiggle' back and forth...??? That sounds nifty. My first thought is: Where should it be placed on a handheld device? People who hold the calculator in one hand while keying with the other hand would want the joystick button in the middle of the machine, for the sake of balance. But people (like me) who hold the machine in both hands, and use both thumbs to press the keys, would prefer the joystick button to be close to one edge or the other, for easy thumbing. Perhaps the location of the HP 33s's 4- way cursor button would be a good place for it. In any case, I really like the idea. I hope it isn't patented, and that it can be implemented without putting a high drain on the batteries. === Subject: Crash with ARMtoolbox when I try to run a program Bytes: 1800 I'm trying to run some C programs on my Hp 50g using HPGCC. I've copied one of the example .hp files from the examples directory (lotto.hp) to my calculator, and recalled it to the stack, giving me a screen like this: http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/696/carmsr6.jpg. I then go to my library menu, go to ARMtoolbox (which I installed following the instructions with SETUP.BIN) and run PrRun. Now I simply get the hourglass icon at the top of the screen, and nothing happens. Pressing any key doesn't do anything, so I've had to use the reset hole on the back with a paperclip. What am I doing wrong? I've tried with several different .hp's in the examples directory and all give me the same result. Jordan === Subject: Re: Crash with ARMtoolbox when I try to run a program I'm trying to run some C programs on my Hp 50g using HPGCC. I've > copied one of the example .hp files from the examples directory > (lotto.hp) to my calculator, and recalled it to the stack, giving me a > screen like this:http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/696/carmsr6.jpg. > I then go to my library menu, go to ARMtoolbox (which I installed > following the instructions with SETUP.BIN) and run PrRun. Now I simply get the hourglass icon at the top of the screen, and > nothing happens. Pressing any key doesn't do anything, so I've had to > use the reset hole on the back with a paperclip. What am I doing wrong? I've tried with several different .hp's in the > examples directory and all give me the same result. Jordan Sorry, My mistake. I think I was putting 2. on the stack, then pushing the Function key for the SETUP.BIN variable - Which is obviously not the same as using the quote mark key to put 'SETUP.BIN' into the stack and pressing EVAL. - After I reinstalled ARMtoolbox like this it is working. Jordan === Subject: What kind of programer are you? (Or the 1<->2 toggle solution on the 35s) 1978) available at Joe Horn's website: http://holyjoe.org/hp/flash07.txt The following HP-35s program is only two step long (if we don't count LBL and RTN), but unlike Mike Richter's solution ( 1/x e^x INT ) it uses the stack: T001 LBL T T002 3 T003 XOR T004 RTN This should work on the new HP-35s (it does work on the HP-42S). Now, what category does that fit it? Gerson. === Subject: Re: What kind of programer are you? (Or the 1<->2 toggle solution on the 35s) > 1978) available at Joe Horn's website: http://holyjoe.org/hp/flash07.txt The following HP-35s program is only two step long (if we don't count > LBL and RTN), but unlike Mike Richter's solution ( 1/x e^x INT ) it > uses the stack: T001 LBL T > T002 3 > T003 XOR > T004 RTN This should work on the new HP-35s (it does work on the HP-42S). Now, > what category does that fit it? Gerson. way, and sure enough, I've studied maths! :) === Subject: Re: What kind of programer are you? (Or the 1<->2 toggle solution on the 35s) Bytes: 1869 your program toggles between 0 and 1, not between 1 and 2 , at least on an HP-48;-) Raymond http://holyjoe.org/hp/flash07.txt The following HP-35s program is only two step long (if we don't count > LBL and RTN), but unlike Mike Richter's solution ( 1/x e^x INT ) it > uses the stack: T001 LBL T > T002 3 > T003 XOR > T004 RTN This should work on the new HP-35s (it does work on the HP-42S). Now, > what category does that fit it? Gerson. > === Subject: Re: What kind of programer are you? (Or the 1<->2 toggle solution on the 35s) at least on an HP-48;-) Hello Raymond, Yes, I was aware of this. Actually, my first attempt with exactly on the HP-48. As it didn't work I tried the HP-42S: 00 { 10-byte Prgm } 01 LBL T 02 3 03 XOR 04 RTN I just hope the 35s behaves like the 42S :-) also on the 35s. But I will be sure only when someone tests it on the 35s. Gerson. === Subject: Re: What kind of programer are you? (Or the 1<->2 toggle solution on the 35s) > 00 { 10-byte Prgm } > 01 LBL T > 02 3 > 03 XOR > 04 RTN I just hope the 35s behaves like the 42S :-) also on the 35s. But I will be sure only when someone tests it on the > 35s. It works. -- === Subject: Re: What kind of programer are you? (Or the 1<->2 toggle solution on the 35s) <5fugvqF3d7b44U1@mid.individual.net also on the 35s. But I will be sure only when someone tests it on the > 35s. It works. -- > Bruce Horrocks You may be aware of Tony Duell's really ingenious on the HP-41 (and 42S) which preserves the stack registers Y, Z and T: 1/x ST+ X More at http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv015.cgi?read=74095 Gerson. === Subject: Re: What kind of programer are you? (Or the 1<->2 toggle solution on the 35s) your program toggles between 0 and 1, not between 1 and 2 , > at least on an HP-48;-) > On the HP-48, it would work only for binary integers: # 1d # 3d XOR -> #2d # 3d XOR -> #1d Since on the HP-35s real numbers are treated as binary integers by the logic functions, the program should work. http://h20331.www2.hp.com/Hpsub/downloads/35_23_Base_Logic_functions.pdf === Subject: Re: What kind of programmer are you? (Or the 1<->2 toggle solution on the 35s) > 1978) available at Joe Horn's website: http://holyjoe.org/hp/flash07.txt The following HP-35s program is only two step long (if we don't count > LBL and RTN), but unlike Mike Richter's solution ( 1/x e^x INT ) it > uses the stack: T001 LBL T > T002 3 > T003 XOR > T004 RTN This should work on the new HP-35s (it does work on the HP-42S). Now, > what category does that fit it? Gerson. === Subject: I ordered the 35s I followed Joe's link and ordered a 35s. The suggested retail price is $80 and HP is selling it for $60. This may make it hard for independent sellers. Here is the link: http://h20331.www2.hp.com/hpsub/cache/532209-0-0-225-121.html No manual is listed for download, but there are 55 training modules shown. They can all be loaded in a single zip files. Some observations from a quick scan of the modules: They have 2x2 and 3x3 equation solvers. The values in A-F for 2x2 and A-L for 3x3. I did not any reference to determinant or whether the values are preserved when the equations are solved. There are two indirect pointers: I and J (the regular variables, not special ones). There are up to 800 indexable variables in addition to A-Z (which are -1 to -26) and the stat registers (-27 to -32). The Logic key gives not, and, or, xor, nor, and nand (iirc). A weird statement: They say that if 0 is stored in an indexed location (they use 100) that that one and all the preceding ones are cleared. That might cause problems. Each value takes 37 bytes and can store a real, or a complex number, or a vector of 3 reals. They give a tricky routine to pack and unpack 3 reals into each value. There are still only 26 labels (A-Z), but you can now reer to numbers of statements inside each label, and, if you insert or delete statements, references to statements are changed to reflect this. It's not as good as large number of labels, but it is a helpful kludge. All in all, I am looking forward to playing with my new 35s when it arrives sometimes this coming week (I hope). === Subject: Re: I ordered the 35s > I followed Joe's link and ordered a 35s. The suggested retail price is > $80 and HP is selling it for $60. This may make it hard for independent sellers. Here is the link:http://h20331.www2.hp.com/hpsub/cache/532209-0-0-225-121.html > Have you tried Samson Cables? http://www.samsoncables.com/catalog/prodDetail.cfm?Prod_ID=394 I've just ordered one. It is interesting to notice $52.99 is about 1/35 of the original HP-35 price, considering inflation :-) Gerson. === Subject: Re: I ordered the 35s > I followed Joe's link and ordered a 35s. The suggested retail price is > $80 and HP is selling it for $60. This may make it hard for independent sellers. That's nothing new; HP has been betraying its independent sellers and driving them out of business for years. See http://www.pahhc.org/Handyclc.htm for one example. -- Wayne Brown (HPCC #1104) [CapitalThorn].bes ofereode, [CapitalYAcute]isses swa m.beg. (That passed away, this also can.) from Deor, in the Exeter Book (folios 100r-100v) === Subject: Re: I ordered the 35s Bytes: 1540 All in all, I am looking forward to playing with my new 35s when it > arrives sometimes this coming week (I hope). Gene: HI Martin. See you in San Diego? Please go to the link below and read the 35s review. It will answer some of your questions. http://www.hpcc.org/datafile/V26Special/the35s.pdf === Subject: Re: I ordered the 35s > I followed Joe's link and ordered a 35s. The suggested retail price is > $80 and HP is selling it for $60. This may make it hard for independent sellers. Here is the link: > http://h20331.www2.hp.com/hpsub/cache/532209-0-0-225-121.html No manual is listed for download, but there are 55 training modules > shown. They can all be loaded in a single zip files. Some observations from a quick scan of the modules: They have 2x2 and 3x3 equation solvers. The values in A-F for 2x2 and > A-L for 3x3. I did not any reference to determinant or whether the > values are preserved when the equations are solved. There are two indirect pointers: I and J (the regular variables, not > special ones). There are up to 800 indexable variables in addition to A-Z (which are > -1 to -26) and the stat registers (-27 to -32). The Logic key gives not, and, or, xor, nor, and nand (iirc). A weird statement: They say that if 0 is stored in an indexed location > (they use 100) that that one and all the preceding ones are cleared. > That might cause problems. Each value takes 37 bytes and can store a real, or a complex number, > or a vector of 3 reals. They give a tricky routine to pack and unpack > 3 reals into each value. There are still only 26 labels (A-Z), but you can now reer to numbers > of statements inside each label, and, if you insert or delete > statements, references to statements are changed to reflect this. It's > not as good as large number of labels, but it is a helpful kludge. All in all, I am looking forward to playing with my new 35s when it > arrives sometimes this coming week (I hope). I'm fairly certain the manual and case are included with the calc === Subject: Re: I ordered the 35s I followed Joe's link and ordered a 35s. The suggested retail price is > $80 and HP is selling it for $60. This may make it hard for independent sellers. Here is the link: >http://h20331.www2.hp.com/hpsub/cache/532209-0-0-225-121.html No manual is listed for download, but there are 55 training modules > shown. They can all be loaded in a single zip files. Some observations from a quick scan of the modules: They have 2x2 and 3x3 equation solvers. The values in A-F for 2x2 and > A-L for 3x3. I did not any reference to determinant or whether the > values are preserved when the equations are solved. There are two indirect pointers: I and J (the regular variables, not > special ones). There are up to 800 indexable variables in addition to A-Z (which are > -1 to -26) and the stat registers (-27 to -32). The Logic key gives not, and, or, xor, nor, and nand (iirc). A weird statement: They say that if 0 is stored in an indexed location > (they use 100) that that one and all the preceding ones are cleared. > That might cause problems. Each value takes 37 bytes and can store a real, or a complex number, > or a vector of 3 reals. They give a tricky routine to pack and unpack > 3 reals into each value. There are still only 26 labels (A-Z), but you can now reer to numbers > of statements inside each label, and, if you insert or delete > statements, references to statements are changed to reflect this. It's > not as good as large number of labels, but it is a helpful kludge. All in all, I am looking forward to playing with my new 35s when it > arrives sometimes this coming week (I hope). I'm fairly certain the manual and case are included with the calc Of course. I could not download tha manual and had to be content with the training modules. === Subject: Re: I ordered the 35s $80 and HP is selling it for $60. This may make it hard for independent sellers. Here is the link: >http://h20331.www2.hp.com/hpsub/cache/532209-0-0-225-121.html No manual is listed for download, but there are 55 training modules > shown. They can all be loaded in a single zip files. Some observations from a quick scan of the modules: They have 2x2 and 3x3 equation solvers. The values in A-F for 2x2 and > A-L for 3x3. I did not any reference to determinant or whether the > values are preserved when the equations are solved. There are two indirect pointers: I and J (the regular variables, not > special ones). There are up to 800 indexable variables in addition to A-Z (which are > -1 to -26) and the stat registers (-27 to -32). The Logic key gives not, and, or, xor, nor, and nand (iirc). A weird statement: They say that if 0 is stored in an indexed location > (they use 100) that that one and all the preceding ones are cleared. > That might cause problems. Each value takes 37 bytes and can store a real, or a complex number, > or a vector of 3 reals. They give a tricky routine to pack and unpack > 3 reals into each value. There are still only 26 labels (A-Z), but you can now reer to numbers > of statements inside each label, and, if you insert or delete > statements, references to statements are changed to reflect this. It's > not as good as large number of labels, but it is a helpful kludge. All in all, I am looking forward to playing with my new 35s when it > arrives sometimes this coming week (I hope). I'm fairly certain the manual and case are included with the calc Of course. I could not download tha manual and had to be content with the training modules. === Subject: Re: 49g+ v92 upgrade problem > I tried to upgrade my 49g+ to the new v92 ROM The procedure I used follows: changed AAA batteries > downloaded new ROM from HP > copied the 4950_92.bin & update.scp to SD card > checked to see if calc read the files - OK > ARCHIVED files from calc. to SD card > checked copy on SD with calc - OK > checked for update files with calc - OK pressed ON - D then ON - C then the + and - keys > viewed update menu > pressed 1 for UPDATE CODE > pressed 2 for CARD I get the following error NO CARD, OR ERROR I did a card check it is OK What am I doing wrong? > Do I need to change backup battery also? my calc VERSION is HP49-C Revision 1.23 I had the same problem. Turned out to be the brand of SD card. I tried to use a lower end one and it would not work. Switched to the San-Disk brand and all is well now === Subject: Re: 49g+ v92 upgrade problem > I get the following error > NO CARD, OR ERROR > I did a card check it is OK > What am I doing wrong? Some machines only allow ROM upgrades from SD cards with a FAT format, > not FAT 32. I don't know if that's the cause of your problem, but if > your SD card was formatted with FAT 32, try saving its contents > elsewhere, reformatting it to FAT, replacing its files, and then > seeing if your calculator can upgrade from it. Another workaround is to make sure that the ROM image file is the > first thing on the SD card. Although that works, I find it easier > just to leave the SD card formatted for FAT. (NB: The calculator > itself unfortunately formats large SD cards as FAT 32, so you'll have > to do the formatting on a computer.) Hope that helps! Sorry it has taken so long to get back, I had a bad EKG this week (negative T-wave) so the cardiologist wanted to look under the hood. He found out the one of my arteries had an unusual shape. NO BLOCKAGE! Maybe someone can make an EKG program and data acquisition box for the calculator. This would save a lot of room in the clinics. Now for the calculator problem The card is formated to FAT. I can transfer files to and from the calculator via the SD card but cannot upgrade the ROM I have another card that someone used in a PDA but after I format it as FAT the calc. will not read it. I will try to clean the card and make sure the upgrade files are the only thing on the card I will also try new batteries. Subject: HP50g - incompetent ?! Have you ever tried to calculate: 1: 1/(x^8-1) 2: INTVX => Answer is: ? Unbelievable. Consequence: Switching back to my good old TI89 and selling this stupid HP50g machine on ebay. Chris === Subject: Re: HP50g - incompetent ?! Bytes: 1500 > Have you ever tried to calculate: 1: 1/(x^8-1) > 2: INTVX => Answer is: ? Unbelievable. > Consequence: Switching back to my good old TI89 and selling this > stupid HP50g machine on ebay. Chris Good. I am glad to see you go. That way you should not have to bother posting to this group anymore. -- ~/.signature === Subject: Re: HP50g - incompetent ?! Although I find an 89 better than the HP in certain symbolics, the HP can definitely do something as simple as that. First go to Files and PURGE the variable 'x' in the Home directory if it exists. If it doesn't then thats good. Also you might consider updating your ROM to 2.09 (I know I did just yesterday), but it isn't necessary, I think. Then type: 1: 1/(X^8-1) -- notice the capital X which is the regular X from pressing the X key on the calculator (not x as the 89) 2: INTVX Assuming you don't simplify the answer provided, it is long and starts with -1/8*LN(ABS(X+1)) and ends with -SQRT(2)/8*ATAN(SQRT(2)*X+1). My modes are: RPN, Std, Radians, Rigorous, Simp. My relevant flags are: Exact Mode, Prefer SINE. I think the default mdoes/flags and any mode (but probably APPROX) should be fine. === Subject: Re: HP50g - incompetent ?! > Have you ever tried to calculate: 1: 1/(x^8-1) > 2: INTVX => Answer is: ? Unbelievable. > Consequence: Switching back to my good old TI89 and selling this > stupid HP50g machine on ebay. Chris Hmm. I just reset my 50G to factory defaults. I entered INTVX(1/(X^8-1)) in ALG and pressed enter. The result was displayed correctly (though obviously it doesn't fit on one screen). It took less time than my 89-Titanium too. BTW, why should you judge a calculator's usefullness on one intergral? Also, can you work out the intergral by hand? === Subject: Re: HP50g - incompetent ?! > Have you ever tried to calculate: 1: 1/(x^8-1) > 2: INTVX => Answer is: ? Unbelievable. > Consequence: Switching back to my good old TI89 and selling this > stupid HP50g machine on ebay. Chris Well, my 50g solves that (Rom rev. 2.09, CAS ver. 4.20060602). So it's rather incompetent use of the 50g. Maybe the 89 is really the better choice for you. Roman === Subject: Re: HP50g - incompetent ?! hu-fux@gmx.de ha scritto: > Have you ever tried to calculate: 1: 1/(x^8-1) > 2: INTVX Yes, I just tried, getting the regular answer (too long for me to type here, but you know it). Paolo Cavallo === Subject: Re: HP50g - incompetent ?! <469a157b$0$36444$4fafbaef@reader5.news.tin.it> Interesting. Can you post me the flags which are set in your HP50g ? Chris === Subject: Re: HP50g - incompetent ?! > Interesting. > Can you post me the flags which are set in your HP50g ? You need to be in exact mode. [R-SHIFT]+[ENTER] (means press and hold [R-Shift] while you press [ENTER]) will toggle you between approximatic mode and exact mode. === Subject: Re: HP50g - incompetent ?! but there is something strange i can't figure out at the moment. After an soft reset (ON + C) i can calculate this integral in the exact mode. When i then activate the approx mode, it fails. BUT, after setting the exact mode again it constantly asks me if i want to turn on the approx mode when i want to calculate the integral again. When choosing NO ...the HP50 is doing nothing. Chris === Subject: Re: HP50g - incompetent ?! > but there is something strange i can't figure out at the moment. After an soft reset (ON + C) i can calculate this integral in the > exact mode. When i then activate the approx mode, it fails. BUT, after > setting the exact mode again it constantly asks me if i want to turn > on the approx mode when i want to calculate the integral again. When > choosing NO ...the HP50 is doing nothing. Chris > As already pointed out there is a difference between 'x' and 'X'. If you have stored a value in 'x' (or whatever variable you're going to use in the CAS) you also have to purge the variable first. You have to use 'RISCH' instead of 'INTVX' if you use 'x'. Roman === Subject: Interesting Interesting. Can you post me the flags which are set in your HP50g ? Chris === Subject: cmsg cancel Control: cancel Bytes: 1017 === Subject: Re: crashes and recoveries hello, sorry for the late reply, but i only just noticed this thread. i have also wondered the same thing about the HP gamma accuracy. i put a 20 digit gamma into hplua which internally uses lanczos. eg > =math.factorial(3.3) 8.85534336045403701884452 however, i have had bad experiences with lanczos accuracy as i think it get very unstable. for my dynamic precision engine (will be a hplua addon) i have gone back to spouge's formula. two reasons, (1) it's more terms, but more stable. (2) it will handle complex arguments thus, > gamma(4.3+i) = 1.71169775148553098246196671285+7.58983858813468468796823485184i_ > i also wondered why hp didnt handle complex gamma. could be they were lanczos too. === Subject: Question about default mode of 35S I'm just curious. Is it RPN or algebraic? === Subject: Re: Question about default mode of 35S I believe Joe Horn answered this in an earlier thread. >----- >Q11. The HP 35s warmstarts in ALG mode, right? A11. No. Like the HP 33s, its default mode is RPN. > I'm just curious. > Is it RPN or algebraic? > === Subject: Re: Question about default mode of 35S Indeed he did. Here is the link, should anyone else need it. Q11. The HP 35s warmstarts in ALG mode, right? A11. No. Like the HP 33s, its default mode is RPN. > I believe Joe Horn answered this in an earlier thread. >----- >Q11. The HP 35s warmstarts in ALG mode, right? > >A11. No. Like the HP 33s, its default mode is RPN. > I'm just curious. > Is it RPN or algebraic? === Subject: TED on HP50G Now, GaaK presents TED 1.2 ulid 5. Full compatibility 49G, 48gII, 49g+, 50G (without bugs) ... yes, bye twice keys. www.gaak.org/hp/ted - GaaK - P.S. This is *not* a *final version*. === Subject: what does eval error unsimplified sqrt mean? what does eval error unsimplified sqrt mean? I've used the simp command on all the square roots, so ironically i don't think the error has anything to do with unsimplified square roots.