HP-5 Seen on a T-shirt: There are 10 types of people in the world -- those who understand binary and those who don't. Tom ==== >How about giving us a list of all the available program names, Helen? >Please! > How about this for a list? Most topics have the complete list of commands. Others I skipped over as many of those commands are available in the various other math libraries that do a better job. All greek letters are spelled out and given in parenthesis. Also, some commands occur in several sections - I tried to weed out the duplicates. Most of the !s are actually the upside down kind - Holland used them for the ' (prime) symbol in many command's names, because ' couldn't be effectively used in the HP's command names. John Edry Additional Trigonometric Functions:CSC, ACSC, SEC, ASEC, COT, ACOT, ARG2, ATN2 Additional Hyperbolic Functions:CSCH, ACSCH, SECH, ASECH, COTH, ACOTH Exponential Integral Functions:EIOX, LIOX, E1OZ, ENOZ, SINT, CINT, SCINT, SINC, SINC2, SHIZ, CHIZ,(alpha)NOZ, (beta)NOZ Gamma and Related Functions: GAMMA, PSI, INCG, INC(gamma), PINCG, BETA, INCB, DNPSI, INC(gamma!), INC(beta), !!, Error and Related Functions: SOFZ, COFZ, S1OZ, C1OZ, S2OZ, C2OZ, ERFZ, ERFCZ, ZOFZ, INEFRC Bessel Functions of Integer Order: JNOZ, J0OX, J1OX, YNOX, Y0OX, Y1OX, INOZ, I0OX, I1OX, KNOX, K0OX, K1OX, BEN&, KEN&, H1NZ, H2NZ, YNOZ, KNOZ Spherical Bessel Functions:SJNZ, SYNZ, SH1Z, SH2Z, SI1NZ, SI2NZ, SKNZ, AIOZ, BIOZ Elliptical Integrals:FXKP, EXKP, BXKP, DXKP, (phi)->X, (alpha)->K!, KOKP, K!OK!, EOKP, (capital pi)NXKP, ZUKP, (lambda)XKP, (phi)<-X, (alpha)<-K!, M->K, M<-K, K^KP, M^M!, (capital delta)ZKP, K!OK, IK!OK, KP->M, UZKP, SNUK! Jacobi Elliptical Functions:SNUK!, CNUK!, DHUK!, CDUK!, SDUK!, NDUK!, DCUK!, NCUK!, SCUK!, NSUK!, DSUK!, CSUK!, N->D, N<-D, N->C, N<-C, N->S, N<-S, NUKP, DUKP, CUKP, SUKP, UZKP, AMUKP, (alpha)->K!, (alpha)<-K!, M->K, M<-K, K^KP, M^M!, KOKP, K!OK!, KP->M, KP<-M, Theta and Related Functions: (phi)->X, (phi)<-X, UZKP, SNUK!, (alpha)->K!, (alpha)<-K!, (capital theta)SUK!, (capital theta)CUK!, plus 30 more - some are duplicates in other areas. Confluent Hypergeometric Functions: MABZ, UABZ, DNU Parabolic Cylinder Functions: UOAX, VOAX, WOAX, DVOZ, EV0Z, EV1Z Gaussian Hypergeometric Functions:F2F1, D2F1, FOGC, INCBH Lengendre and Struve Functions: P(mu)VX, Q(mu)VX, PQUP, P(mu)VZ, Q(mu)VZ, HVOZ, LVOZ Orthogonal Polynomials: 2 Jacobi, Gegenbauer Ultraspherical, 4 Chebyshev, 2 Shifted, Lagendre, 2 Laguerre, and Hermite polynomials. Plotting Operations: Number Theory Calculations: GCD, LCM, FACTR, FMPY, PRIME, FIBON, BR, BPOLY, BCOEF, ER, EPOLY, ECOEF, RZETA, CZETA, STRL1, STRL2, EXCO Symbolic Algebra Operations: Linear Algebra Operations: Special Matrix Operations: Statistical Analysis Tools: (mu), (sigma), ADEV, SKEW, KURT, VARM, MEDIN, MODE, COVAR, TTSV, TTDV, TTPS, FTDV, CDT1, CDT2, KST1, KST2, LCNT, HIST, SRT^, SRT(down arrow), SRTI, RNDU, RNDN, CUM(capital sigma), MAVE, VADD, VSUB, CTA2D, SRCTT, AVAR1, AVAR2, ACOVR, RNUM, CNUM, SRND, ROW(mu), COL(mu), ROW(sigma), COL(sigma), VSPLT, VCMB, RNLV, RDLV, RSPLT, RCMB Probability Distributions:U(tau)PC, U(tau)PF, U(tau)PN, U(tau)PT, LTPN, UTPE, WEIB, EXTV, UNIF, CAUCH, LAPL, UTPG, UTP(beta), LTP(beta), LTP(beta), U(tau-eta)C, U(tau-eta)F, U(tau-eta)T, BINM, LTPH, NEGB, POSH, UTKS, RAYL, RICE, M(gamma)N, MPN Inverse Probability Calculations:IUTPC, IUTPF, IUTPN, IUTPT, IUTPE, IWEIB, IEXTV, IUNIF, ICAUCH, ILAPL, IUTPG, IUTP(beta), ILTP(beta), IBINM, INEGB, IPOSN, IUTKS, IRAYL, IM(gamma)N Bivarate Normal Distribution: PUXUY, PUXLY, PLXUY, PLXLY Multi-Server Queueing Distributions: LM, LQM, LPM, WM, WQM, PQB, PNSM, PDQW Symbolic Vectors and Matrices Plus Differebtial Equations: Data Processing Operations: DER1, DER2, LINT, RINT, INDEX, PIMDX, FINDP, FINDV, FINDX, FINDN, V(capital sigma), CUM(capital sigma), FFT, IFFT, TWIDL, BITRV, WL1, WL2, CONV, CCORR, RNDU, RNRN, SPECT, PHASE, ZFILL, HALF, ZFIL1, HALF1, ZFILN, REDN, VROT, REFLT, VDEC, VINTP, SQWV, (capital delta)WAV, PHASU, VTRUD, MAVE, VMPY, VDVD, VCORR, ICONV, UNITI, DGLIT, PLT1 Filter Design Operations: FTRV1, FTRV2, (tau)VT1, (tau)VT2, HOF(omega), (tau)OF(omega), FTRVL, POLEP, FORDR, RZINV, R->CL, PZINV, BPOLE, CPOLE, (capital theta)FCFS, ESOLV, EZERO, EPLOE, (capital omega)MIN, (capital omega)MAX, (rho)->AX, (rho)<-AX, AX->(epsilon), AX<-(epsilon), PSCAL, COEFL, PROOT, AROOT, (delta_eta)->A, BESLF, WARP, L->LP, L->HP, L->BP, L->BS, BLINT, DHBRT, GAIN1, IXFRM, RATAP, SRE, SIM, S->ZP, TF->C, C^O, COMT, Window, Clipping and Fir Design: HAMM, GENH, HANN, BARTL, BLAC, GAUS, PARZ, KAISR, WELC, CLIPP, CLIPB, CLIPN, ONE, FIRID Special Vector Operations: Vector Scalar Algebra: Matrix Scalar Algebra: There is also the Gamma constant and complex integration ==== +----------------------------------------------+ | Fri, 19.9.03 12:40 p.m. +1200 (NZT) | +----------------------------------------------+ in message ID : > How about giving us a list of all the available program names, Helen? > Please! At www.reed-elsevier.com I found the book, using Keyword HP48 and found this: ---------- Overview of Mathematics Library (715). Special Plotting Operations (11). Complex Functions and Approximations: Trigonometric and Hyperbolic Functions (28). Exponential Integral and Related Functions (17). Gamma and Related Functions (11). Error Function and Fresnel Integrals (13). Bessel Functions of Integer Order (19). Spherical Bessel Functions (11). Elliptic Integrals (24). Jacobi Elliptic Functions (35). Theta and Related Functions (41). Confluent Hypergeometric Functions (17). Parabolic Cylinder Functions (11). Gaussian Hypergeometric Function (5). Legendre and Struve Functions(11). Orthogonal Polynomials (14). Approximation of Functions and Data Sets (29). Number Theory Calculations (21). Basic Symbolic Computation and Matrix Algebra: Symbolic Algebra and Calculus (41). Complex Linear Algebra (65). Special Matrix Operations (57). Probability and Statistics Tools: Statistical Operations and Tests (47). Probability Distributions (56). Multi-Server Queueing Distributions (11). Vector Calculus, State Space, and Differential Equations: Symbolic Arrays and Advanced Calculus (56). Complex Data Analysis and Signal Processing Tools: Data Processing and Simulation (47). Filter Design and Analysis (53). FIR Design and Discrete Computations (35). Special Array Operations: Special Vector Operations (23). Vector Scalar Algebra (29). Matrix Scalar Algebra (31). Appendices and Indices: Availability of Over 700 Application, Test, and Symbolic Function Programs. Warranty and User Support. Limits, Derivatives, and Formulas. Integral Calculus and Tables. Miscellaneous Series. Continuous Time Transforms: Laplace, and Wavelet. Evaluating Commands, HP 48 Menus and Keyboards, Index. Readership: Students and professionals in mathematics and engineering; owners of an HP 48SX. ISBN: 0-12-352380-X Digital or multimedia/Other digital Measurements: 6 X 9 in Pages: 632 Imprint: Academic Press Price: $213.95 ---------- Looks like it can be bought there as well. The publisher is/was Elsevier. I can't figure out what the (nn) numbers are - it looks strange if there are 19 Bessel functions of integer order? And, why only of integer order? - even the 48SX has a factorial that does fractional arguments. And no mention of Runge-Kutta above - I saw it mentioned somewhere else, so the above list may be seriously incomplete :) I wonder how much of this is really native to the 49G. -- Tony Hutchins Wellington New Zealand #163 When you cease to make a contribution, you begin to die. Eleanor Roosevelt ==== > I can't figure out what the (nn) numbers are - it looks > strange if there are 19 Bessel functions of integer order? What do you find strange about that? Obviously, there is an infinite number of such Bessel functions... Actually, 3 times infinite (well, o.k., so that's still countably infinite, so it's exactly the same; but I digress), since there are Bessel functions of the first kind, second kind (also known as Weber's functions), and third kind (the Hankel functions). Then there are the modified Bessel, Weber, and Hankel functions, too. The reason Holland has 19 of those is that he offers functions that calculate the most commonly used integer-order functions in 10-digit accuracy, plus he provides all of these Bessel functions for arbitrary order, but in that case the accuracy is only about 7 digits. > And, why only of integer order? - even the 48SX has a > factorial that does fractional arguments. Huh? It seems that you don't know what a Bessel function of integer order is. In short, it can be considered a function of two arguments, say, J(n,z), where n is the integer order, and z is the complex argument. There are also Bessel functions of complex order, like J(nu,z), where both the order and the argument can be complex. Of course, Holland provides approximations for these, too... The 48SX is actually cheating a little bit with the factorial: Formally, the _factorial_ is only defined for integer arguments, but the 48SX will happily give you a result for any _real_ argument. What it actually does is to give you the value of the Gamma function of the given argument+1. Holland's library also provides the Gamma function (and Digamma, incomplete Gamma, Pearson's incomplete Gamma, Polygamma, and the Beta and incomplete Beta functions, too...), for complex arguments. > And no mention of Runge-Kutta above - > I saw it mentioned somewhere else, so the > above list may be seriously incomplete :) It is incomplete. There's also various integral transforms (some symbolic as well), wavelet transforms, Karhunen-Loeve decompositions, vector calculus operations (symbolic, in more than a half dozen coordinate systems), etc., etc. The breadth and scope of Holland's collection is quite simply breathtaking. And just in case somebody starts babbling about exploiting the work of others again: Of course Holland did not invent any of the approximations he uses himself. My understanding is that he simply took our beloved AMS-55, and coded the UserRPL equivalent of the approximations given in there for the most important functions of higher mathematics and mathematical physics. In many cases that is a fairly trivial exercise of programming a bunch of coefficients for approximating polynomials. What it does require, however, is a thorough understanding of these functions and their approximations. Sorry, I almost forgot: Holland's command for R-K integration is DESOL. > I wonder how much of this is really native to the 49G. Practically none of it. -- Helen. ==== +----------------------------------------------+ | Fri, 19.9.03 2:40 p.m. +1200 (NZT) | +----------------------------------------------+ in message ID <1a8f5fe5.0309181816.70c9023@posting.google.com> : > I can't figure out what the (nn) numbers are - it looks > strange if there are 19 Bessel functions of integer order? > > What do you find strange about that? I thought there were only a couple of basic formulae. Wrong!!! > Obviously, there is an infinite number of such Bessel > functions... Actually, 3 times infinite (well, o.k., so > that's still countably infinite, so it's exactly the same; > but I digress), since there are Bessel functions of the > first kind, second kind (also known as Weber's functions), > and third kind (the Hankel functions). Then there are the > modified Bessel, Weber, and Hankel functions, too. The reason > Holland has 19 of those is that he offers functions that > calculate the most commonly used integer-order functions > in 10-digit accuracy, plus he provides all of these Bessel > functions for arbitrary order, but in that case the accuracy > is only about 7 digits. > And, why only of integer order? - even the 48SX has a > factorial that does fractional arguments. > > Huh? Even Abramowitz and Stegun have a whole section explicitly classified as Bessel functions of fractional order For the regular Bessel of the first kind anyway there is only the one formula for both - involving nu which is simply and integer for one, then fractional for the other. Ahha, I see what you mean by arbitrary order above - that must include the fractional? > It seems that you don't know what a Bessel function > of integer order is. for your detailed information. > In short, it can be considered a > function of two arguments, say, J(n,z), where n is the > integer order, and z is the complex argument. There are > also Bessel functions of complex order, like J(nu,z), > where both the order and the argument can be complex. Of > course, Holland provides approximations for these, too... Ahha, that escaped me. I was not thinking complex. I recently had to evaluate J(.75,2) and J(-.25,2) and I just thought of the .75 and -.25 as fractional, well at least nonintegral. > The 48SX is actually cheating a little bit with the > factorial: Formally, the _factorial_ is only defined for > integer arguments, but the 48SX will happily give you a > result for any _real_ argument. What it actually does > is to give you the value of the Gamma function of the > given argument+1. That is something I knew ;-) > Holland's library also provides the > Gamma function (and Digamma, incomplete Gamma, Pearson's > incomplete Gamma, Polygamma, and the Beta and incomplete > Beta functions, too...), for complex arguments. All I can say is Wow! > And no mention of Runge-Kutta above - > I saw it mentioned somewhere else, so the > above list may be seriously incomplete :) > > It is incomplete. There's also various integral transforms > (some symbolic as well), wavelet transforms, Karhunen-Loeve > decompositions, vector calculus operations (symbolic, in > more than a half dozen coordinate systems), etc., etc. The > breadth and scope of Holland's collection is quite simply > breathtaking. I believe you. > And just in case somebody starts babbling about exploiting > the work of others again: Of course Holland did not invent > any of the approximations he uses himself. My understanding > is that he simply took our beloved AMS-55, That is not Abramowitz & Stegun is it? My copy of that is very well worn. And I thought Dover pages didn't fall out. > and coded the UserRPL equivalent of the approximations > given in there for the most important functions of higher > mathematics and mathematical physics. In many cases that > is a fairly trivial exercise of programming a bunch of > coefficients for approximating polynomials. What it does > require, however, is a thorough understanding of these > functions and their approximations. Agreed. And testing :) Heaps of work!! The need to carefully choose test examples to confirm the code behaves well ... > Sorry, I almost forgot: Holland's command for R-K integration > is DESOL. > I wonder how much of this is really native to the 49G. > > Practically none of it. Some is though ;-) HP48SX!! -- Tony Hutchins Wellington New Zealand #176 Without knowledge, life is not more than the shadow of death. Moliere ==== > sell me a loan using HP 48, HP 49 or TI 89. Those people are using > calculators specialized toward typical banking operations like HP17B. > The key is a letter B here :-). I don't particularly care what coding is > used > in those machines :-) > Yes and the HP 12C is the official Wall Street calculator. > BUT > also engineers need to sum up cost, etc. You need trillions to exceed one cent error because of binary. It is insignificant for engineers. They are never allowed to handle that much money :-) Engineers only do estimates. Estimates are often exact within 5% of error. It is business guys who sign contracts and they never use graphical calculators to do so. > AND the 4x series have that TVM and other tools (like [+] :) > to calculate also some financial stuff TVM uses logarithms for some of the solutions. BCD looses hands down with binary as soon as the first logarithm function is used. > again. See the pattern ? :-) > I see it, Jack. > PS: Is there anything good in the HP calculators? > Improvements so far (never praised by you?): Absolutely. I praised 48S over 28S. That was really big step. I praised 48G over 48S for doubling the speed. I praise 49G for adding integrals, differential equations, precise integers for much improved algebra. I hate it outdated hardware - slowness, substandard screen resolution etc. I'm really dissapointed with it's keyboard but we all are anyway. > SW: > MASD build-in, compile and decompile of SysRPL & Assembler Don't see that as a big improvement. TI model of programming calculator on PC in C or ASM and then just uploading into the calc is for me a better model of programming in difficult - time consuming languages. I praise HP for user RPL, but that was since 28 model, so progress isn't really here. > Algebraic mode added, RPL> and `back-quotas` to allow cross calling Not for me. HP greatness is in RPN. I see advantage for some but not for me. Actually adding algebraic forced compromises such as manual tailored toward algebraic crowd and some commands badly explained for RPN crowd if ever, or behaving strangely. > Fast EQW, INFORM, CHOOSE, etc Rarely use it. I do not deny that EQW is a beautifull piece of software but how much use it really have in real life for engineers and scientists ? Most formulas are either relatively simple or build by using power of RPN and piecewise simpler equations. It simply is a faster method. > Filer for ease of use, ports shown by type rather than by 128KB limit Filer is annoyingly slow ! I almost never use it. As ports go, why do you need it beyond backup ? Flat memory model seems simpler. > CAS & new commands Excellent. > infinite integers Excellent > Symbolic Matrices Excellent > Graphical Stack (EQW format in stack objects) It is mixed blessing. Graphical window is simply to small to show bigger equations and scrolling is just a patch. > Multiple font sizes including minifont Don't really care. > Step-by-Step I'm not a student anymore. > Fast 3D plot with 3d rotate and zoom Never found engineering use for it in real life. > More assignment levels by shift&hold And many commands gone from the keyboard either deep into Give me back my 48. > HW: > Flash to store programs & libraries permanently Flash is excellent. > Alpha keys working together with cursor keys > AND > Now the + model has added speed, 3x after how many years ?. I wish to have about 20 to 50 with binary and modern hardware. But it is a step into the right direction - see comment about 49+ model at the end of this post. > SD card, fast IrDA, If I find some use for it, I will let you know :-) IrDA might be usefull when some day some other guy in 10 miles radius will have another HP 49G+ :-) > fast USB, etc. Excellent. > Why always mainly complaining? I must be this type of guy. If I wouldn't like HP at all I would alredy throw it away and wouldn't bother to post on this forum. You might be amazed but I do like it. I'm just dissapointed in the little progress HP did in the past with it's hardware, and many misguided ideas in the software improvement where number one complaint of machine being too slow for modern times was never really addressed by the HP engineering. Contrary to what you thought, I think the 49+ model seems to be the first distant light at the end of the tunnel and something tells me that it is mainly due to the fact that it was outsourced from ACO to Chinese who did not had preconceived notions. It is probably less than a year or so, when I heard on this forum from no one else, but ACO enginner, that it is practically impossible to dump Saturn and York and hence it is impossible to speed up the calc or enlarge it's screen. As we all see, to the amazement of that engineer (which I found strangely amusing), Chinese engineers easily overcome this obstacle within probably one year or less. I suspect, it was easy for them, because they were not spiritually attached to the MASD legacy and Saturn arhcitecture. Sometimes outsider has a fresh look and it seems in this case Carly really did the right thing outsourcing the machine. Let's hope, that quality problems are overstated. I consider move from BCD to binary as another step that outside engineering might some day find practical. You guys might ignore this machine as substandard calculator, but I will be the first in line to buy such machine that has all HP49 RPN bells and whistles and is 20 to 30 times faster in floating point that the 49+ model is today for the same price and juice consumption. > > That is the pattern I see... > OK. I'm the whiner :-) Jack ==== > > BCD and binary have all their advantages. > > Binary is faster and easy to implement in hardware. This is why (to my > knowledge) all numerical co-processor use binary. > BCD is usually implemented in software (with some time hardware assist for > basic operations like on the saturn) and is slower. How would you implement it on a purely binary CPU (such as ARM) ? I would imagine look-up tables for adding or multiplying two BCD digits. > everyone knows that 1/3 can not be represented exactly in BCD and can cause > problems if re-multiplied, few peoples know that 0.6 can not be represented > in binary and will cause problems similar to 1/3. That is precisely my point. Everybody knows, that floating point representation is imperfect and leads sometimes to small under or over representation of the otherwise obvious number such as 0.999... instead of 1.0 etc. Therefore expecting, that someone will be dumbfounded when binary will lead to such outcome is beyond me. BCD is now completely dissapearing from modern CPU's and it seem natural, that to speed up the machines and to simplify future development it seems easier to switch to binary, because stable libraries are alredy written. > Now as a calcualtor is mainly used by standard peoples that do not do > number crunching, but add simple numbers, one at a time, BCD does make sence > as it is more intuitive. Are you sure, that this is the traget customer for top of the line algebraic graphical calculator that cost ove $150 ? I disagree. > > Jack ==== > > Seen on a T-shirt: > > There are 10 types of people in the world -- those who understand > binary and those who don't. > > Tom There are three types of people in the world -- those who can count and those who can't. --- was that Groucho Marx ? ==== > The 48SX is actually cheating a little bit with the factorial: > Formally, the _factorial_ is only defined for integer arguments, but > the 48SX will happily give you a result for any _real_ argument. What > it actually does is to give you the value of the Gamma function of the > given argument+1. That has bothered me from the beginning. Only the 42S got it right, it has N! - accepting integers only - and GAMMA. And no CAS ;-) Werner ==== X in BCD you can acceess each digit individually. That opens up a world of tricks and I think *THAT'S* why all these HP calculators use BCD. X > I praise 49G for adding integrals, differential equations, > precise integers for much improved algebra. I hate it outdated > hardware - slowness, substandard screen resolution etc. > I'm really dissapointed with it's keyboard but we all are anyway. X > SW: > CAS & new commands > Excellent. > infinite integers > Excellent > Symbolic Matrices > Excellent X > HW: > Flash to store programs & libraries permanently > Flash is excellent. > fast USB, etc. > Excellent. OK - I apologize my rough comments > Why always mainly complaining? > > I must be this type of guy. If I wouldn't like HP at all I would alredy throw > it away and wouldn't bother to post on this forum. > You might be amazed but I do like it. I'm just dissapointed in the little progress > HP did in the past with it's hardware, and many misguided ideas in the software > improvement where number one complaint of machine being too slow for modern > times was never really addressed by the HP engineering. OK > Contrary to what you thought, I think the 49+ model seems to be the first > distant light at the end of the tunnel and something tells me that it is mainly > due to the fact that it was outsourced from ACO to Chinese who did not had > preconceived notions. OK X > as substandard calculator, but I will be the first in line to buy such machine that > has all HP49 RPN bells and whistles and is 20 to 30 times faster in floating point > that the 49+ model is today for the same price and juice consumption. ME, TOO !!! > That is the pattern I see... > OK. I'm the whiner :-) LOL *** Let's be friends, Jack! Veli-Pekka PS: Jack is right, but he usually expresses his ideas and complains in such a way that it is very hard to take it in and see what good there is With added ideas of how one migh correct this inspires the imagination and the negative part is no longer memorized, but instead mind is headed for the distant (I hope for near) future where HP will make a bigger jump offering both superb math, big & fast graphics AND Games! Yes, that sells calculators and helps thus the professionals in two ways: A) to get a lower priced tool B) relax ==== > X > OK. I'm the whiner :-) > LOL > *** Let's be friends, Jack! > Veli-Pekka > PS: Jack is right, but he usually expresses his ideas and complains in such > a way X I think I finally understand why JYA dislikes me/my_ideas: He has the responsability of the ROM and he is even more sensitive than I am. Thus all these years when I have tried to help, I have done it in many occations in such a way that pisses of JYA. * that has never been my intention! * and remember all the good stuff... Veli-Pekka ==== > Ahha, I see what you mean by arbitrary order above - that > must include the fractional? No, the arbitrary there only meant arbitrary integer order. The fractional ones were included with the complex order below. > That is not Abramowitz & Stegun is it? Yup, that's the one. > My copy of that is very > well worn. And I thought Dover pages didn't fall out. Well, that's what they claim, isn't it? ;-) -- Helen. ==== > How about this for a list? > > Most topics have the complete list of commands. Others I skipped over as many > of those commands are available in the various other math libraries that do a > better job. All greek letters are spelled out and given in parenthesis. Also, > some commands occur in several sections - I tried to weed out the duplicates. > Most of the !s are actually the upside down kind - Holland used them for the ' > (prime) symbol in many command's names, because ' couldn't be effectively used > in the HP's command names. > > John Edry Most of those function names don't make sense to me. Can you (or someone else) interpret them and tell me what they do? Bhuvanesh. ==== > I can't figure out what the (nn) numbers are - it looks > strange if there are 19 Bessel functions of integer order? Actually, you only need one function per Bessel function that computes it for any order -- integer, fractional, ... -- Bhuvanesh ==== > I can't figure out what the (nn) numbers are - it looks > strange if there are 19 Bessel functions of integer order? > > What do you find strange about that? > Obviously, there is an infinite number of such Bessel functions... > Actually, 3 times infinite (well, o.k., so that's still countably > infinite, so it's exactly the same; but I digress), since there are > Bessel functions of the first kind, second kind (also known as Weber's > functions), and third kind (the Hankel functions). Then there are the > modified Bessel, Weber, and Hankel functions, too. The reason Holland > has 19 of those is that he offers functions that calculate the most > commonly used integer-order functions in 10-digit accuracy, plus he > provides all of these Bessel functions for arbitrary order, but in > that case the accuracy is only about 7 digits. But he could have combined them, as in Mathematica (and as I have done). IMHO, too many functions makes the system hard to use. > The 48SX is actually cheating a little bit with the factorial: > Formally, the _factorial_ is only defined for integer arguments, but > the 48SX will happily give you a result for any _real_ argument. What > it actually does is to give you the value of the Gamma function of the > given argument+1. Holland's library also provides the Gamma function > (and Digamma, incomplete Gamma, Pearson's incomplete Gamma, Polygamma, > and the Beta and incomplete Beta functions, too...), for complex > arguments. And the gamma function is not a unique extension of the factorial into the complex plane. -- Bhuvanesh ==== > in BCD you can acceess each digit individually. > That opens up a world of tricks and I think *THAT'S* > why all these HP calculators use BCD. I'm not sure what it is exactly usefull for. Cyrille mentioned fast screen output, that is one well known big advantage. One can try TI89 very long integer display time to appreciate BCD HP display time. But other than that, floating point (which, unlike unlimited integer, is short to translate from binary to display anyway) single digit acess doesn't seem to be that important. My understanding of JYA and others was, that Saturn was always better and faster with BCD and as long as HP was tied to that hardware, it made no sense to even consider binary. But now, when we are on ARM that has no BCD whatsoever and chance is that future CPU's would not bring BCD back not mentioning the fact that direct nybble access is also not there, the whole equation changes. Hence my original question about HP dillema. Is it worth to switch to binary or better to fully maintain Saturn legacy by emulating it with including BCD with all the speed loss. > as substandard calculator, but I will be the first in line to buy such > machine that > has all HP49 RPN bells and whistles and is 20 to 30 times faster in > floating point > that the 49+ model is today for the same price and juice consumption. > > ME, TOO !!! I was thinking, how one would emulate BCD math on a binary CPU. Even for simple addition of two numbers ARM would add two 32 bit registers in about one clock cycle or so (it's RISC). How would you add two 8 digit BCD numbers in two 32 bit registers on this CPU and how many clock cycles it would take ? The nightmare of 8 times accessing and insulating single nybbles, getting into the look-up tables or using branch with compare to find the outcome of adding two BCD digits, then, holding those digits in temporary storage and proceeding with the next digit to add them including potential carry from the previous nybble operation seems to be a timing nightmare. Multiplication seems to me even worse. Potential for 20-30 is right there on current CPU and I badly want it :-) > > That is the pattern I see... > OK. I'm the whiner :-) > LOL > *** Let's be friends, Jack! OK. > Veli-Pekka Jack ==== > But he could have combined them, as in Mathematica (and as I have > done). He has done that. As I said, he does provide functions for the general, arbitrary-order case. However, the approximations he was using (which he simply seems to have taken from AMS 55) are not as accurate. It is for this reason that he _also_ provides the most common cases in a more accurate form. I would expect that Mathematica uses different approximations internally, too, depending on the arguments supplied. And I am sure we agree that a calculator is not a substitute for a real CAS... > And the gamma function is not a unique extension of the factorial into > the complex plane. Of course. -- Helen. ==== +----------------------------------------------+ | Sat, 20.9.03 3:45 p.m. +1200 (NZT) | +----------------------------------------------+ in message ID <662e00ed.0309190445.82801@posting.google.com> : [...] > But he could have combined them, as in Mathematica (and as I have > done). > IMHO, too many functions makes the system hard to use. Recently a really neat HP48 Bessel J function program was posted on hpmuseum.org, that worked for any real order. > The 48SX is actually cheating a little bit with the factorial: > Formally, the _factorial_ is only defined for integer arguments, but > the 48SX will happily give you a result for any _real_ argument. What > it actually does is to give you the value of the Gamma function of the > given argument+1. Holland's library also provides the Gamma function > (and Digamma, incomplete Gamma, Pearson's incomplete Gamma, Polygamma, > and the Beta and incomplete Beta functions, too...), for complex > arguments. > > And the gamma function is not a unique extension of the factorial into > the complex plane. On the HP49 I just discovered the GAMMA function. It even works on complex arguments!! This means the native HP49 (but not the HP48) provides all the numbers in AMS-55 Table 6.7, which runs to 11 pages!! Eg (1 1) GAMMA LN gives (-.650923199302, -.301640320468) - the EXACT same entry in table 6.7. Impressive! Looking through the CAS functions and commands there are some really useful functions there, if we want to replicate AMS-55. The IBERNOULLI is really nifty - I was surprised to see that - the only place I've seen it used is in the TAN expansion. I reckon a straight transplant of Holland's User RPL to the hp49g+ would probably run really fast, especially with some tailoring to take advantage of the new native HP49 functions. -- Tony Hutchins Wellington New Zealand #323 The secret source of humor itself is not joy but sorrow. There is no humor in heaven. Twain ==== > On the HP49 I just discovered the GAMMA function. It even > works on complex arguments!! This means the native HP49 (but > not the HP48) provides all the numbers in AMS-55 Table 6.7, > which runs to 11 pages!! > > Eg (1 1) GAMMA LN gives (-.650923199302, -.301640320468) > - the EXACT same entry in table 6.7. > > Impressive! Yep, you don't really need the tables from A&S any more, except for testing software. -- Bhuvanesh <%2z9b.363$B13.80@reader1.news.jippii.net> <1a8f5fe5.0309161706.1ab52e0c@posting.google.com> <3f6825fe$0$23591$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au> ==== > It's nice that they fixed the problems so quickly. It would have been > even nicer if they had actually *tested* these things for a few weeks > before shipping them out. I'm afraid that you're far away from understanding on how the *real* production world works... I've seen many cases where a product is produced using parts supplied like CPUs, screen etc... All tests are run and passed. so the full production run is started based on the original specification. then you realize that the CPU provider actually changed the specification of one single pin that make the power consumption going crazy. Or worse, this pin was not even documented in any way and it just happen that in the new batch of CPUs it *kind of* work differently Nothing could prevent such thing to happen, especially because they are usually due to a simple instruction initializing the CPU differently. Look at the first Apple iPod, 2nd production batch happens to drain the batteries extremely quickly. It was quickly fixed with a software update. Does that make Apple a worse company? certainly not. You can bet that something similar happened to HP. As Forrest Gump would say: Shit happens. Being there moaning over and over on how things used to be and blah blah is now totally irrelevant. The game is different, the technology is different. 15 years ago you didn't get a new CPU every 6 months and the market looking after those things. ==== >> It's nice that they fixed the problems so quickly. It would have been >> even nicer if they had actually *tested* these things for a few weeks >> before shipping them out. > I'm afraid that you're far away from understanding on how the *real* > production world works... begin{sarcasm} Yes, I've only spent the last 18 years working in the manufacturing industry, so why would that qualify me to know how the *real* production world works... end{sarcasm} However, I *do* know that if any significant number of our products were shipped out with problems as serious as those HP routinely lets slip through the testing process, then there would be production and quality-control personnel looking for new jobs. > I've seen many cases where a product is produced using parts supplied > like CPUs, screen etc... > All tests are run and passed. > so the full production run is started based on the original > specification. then you realize that the CPU provider actually changed > the specification of one single pin that make the power consumption > going crazy. Or worse, this pin was not even documented in any way and > it just happen that in the new batch of CPUs it *kind of* work > differently > Nothing could prevent such thing to happen, especially because they are > usually due to a simple instruction initializing the CPU differently. begin{more}{sarcasm} No, the idea of having units from the first production batch *thoroughly* tested by engineers for a month before any units were shipped to distributors couldn't *possibly* prevent such thing to happen. end{more}{sarcasm} > Look at the first Apple iPod, 2nd production batch happens to drain the > batteries extremely quickly. It was quickly fixed with a software update. > Does that make Apple a worse company? certainly not. > You can bet that something similar happened to HP. If you want to impress me with a company I respect, Apple is a very bad example to choose. A large part of my objection to the original 49G was its resemblance to those iMac atrocities. > As Forrest Gump would say: **** happens. Being there moaning over and > over on how things used to be and blah blah is now totally irrelevant. > The game is different, the technology is different. > 15 years ago you didn't get a new CPU every 6 months and the market > looking after those things. And people like you, who accept (and even help produce) the kind of crap HP sells these days, are the *reason* things are so much worse than they (and other useful software) for the 48, but I really don't care for the Forrest Gump-inspired technology you've helped create since. As for me, I'll avoid the new whiz-kid toys and continue using my reliable older-technology Hewlett-Packard devices as long as they last. When they finally wear out, I'll keep using my slide rules, which likely will outlast my great-grandchildren (and may be the only example they'll ever see of truly elegant and durable design). -- Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock <%2z9b.363$B13.80@reader1.news.jippii.net> <1a8f5fe5.0309161706.1ab52e0c@posting.google.com> <3f6825fe$0$23591$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au> <2TX9b.3079$as4.1619@bignews2.bellsouth.net> ==== > Yes, I've only spent the last 18 years working in the manufacturing > industry, so why would that qualify me to know how the real > production world works... Interesting... So can I assume you've been doing the same thing over and over again for 18 years because it worked in the past and it should work now? So good on ya' mate ; I'm sure it's been an amazingly interesting way of living full of challenges. and you're amazingly right. Don't buy an iMac because it's ugly. Don't buy a 49G+ because your colleague would make fun of you and it wouldn't look professional. Not adding that the ENTER key is in the wrong place. I have som vinyl records for sale if you're interested. they been working for over 18 years so they must be good. I always liked people like you who embraces new things and move forward.... Now let's go back to my continual whinging on how good HP used to be 20 years from now... thanks to that I don't have time left to get a life and move on. I have certainty in my life: I'm happy ==== Ohrfeige rechts und links, konservaiver Sack etc. and all emotional snipped. keep cool! ...Heiko ==== > it worked in the past and it should work now? Well, one might notice that such is the case for most successful companies: You better produce a product that works, if you want to stay in business, that is. Outside of the closed world of HP-calculator fanatics, there's usually not too many customers who will be thrilled by a yeah, it does not work right, and the keyboard is broken, but it's new, and has a new color, too! And if it would work, it would be a really great calculator. Of course, JYA wouldn't know that. The only business he was ever involved with in any significant way immediately tanked, after having developed a product that completely failed in the market. Great credentials there. Congratulations. > So good on ya' mate ; I'm sure it's been an amazingly interesting way of > living full of challenges. He can be somewhat acerbic, the little snot-nose, can't he? -- Helen. ==== > Yes, I've only spent the last 18 years working in the manufacturing > industry, so why would that qualify me to know how the real > production world works... > > Interesting... > So can I assume you've been doing the same thing over and over again for > 18 years because it worked in the past and it should work now? > > So good on ya' mate ; I'm sure it's been an amazingly interesting way of > living full of challenges. > > and you're amazingly right. Don't buy an iMac because it's ugly. > Don't buy a 49G+ because your colleague would make fun of you and it > wouldn't look professional. Not adding that the ENTER key is in the > wrong place. > > I have som vinyl records for sale if you're interested. they been > working for over 18 years so they must be good. > > I always liked people like you who embraces new things and move forward.... > > Now let's go back to my continual whinging on how good HP used to be 20 > years from now... thanks to that I don't have time left to get a life > and move on. I have certainty in my life: I'm happy > The HP 49 models used to be good in two different Millenia starting from ROM 1.16 there was ROMUPLOAD Now the students in Finland are complaining that they have finally fast IrDA, but the ROMUPLOAD is disabled in the 49G+. Oh - this used to be a students machine...now a SD is required! BTW: I tested 64MB SD and 8MB MMC ; 64MB MMC is on test... Seems to work, but easily I get Illegal DOS Name like WR's IOMANPlus library refuses to go to an SD from the calc. PC works always! ==== Does anyone know where I could pick up a copy (either new or 2nd hand) of the AUR in Sydney/Australia? thanks, peter ==== Are the banned calcs banned for the PE test this Oct or does the ban start next year? ==== >Are the banned calcs banned for the PE test this Oct or does the ban >start next year? Next year. However, you must already be registered for this October's exam to sit for it. -- Sincerely, Richard M. Smith (509) 754-1126 rmsmith@pobox.com ==== I can find manuals for User RPL and Sys RPL but is there a user manual for the BASIC in the 49G / GII / G+ ? If so, where might I find it? TIA Tom Lake ==== > I can find manuals for User RPL and Sys RPL but is there a user manual for > the BASIC in the 49G / GII / G+ ? If so, where might I find it? HP BASIC is just the algebraic mode. There's not a separate manual for it. ==== What is the best (ie most powerful) non-banned (from PE tests) calculator? My suggestion to those who make suggestions Don't suggest banned calcs anymore to students. My wife just graduated and learned everything on a 48sx now she can't use it and she is MAD making my life unpleasent. ==== Banned by whom? I don't understand! Banned from a math class? Rod > What is the best (ie most powerful) non-banned (from PE tests) > calculator? > > My suggestion to those who make suggestions > Don't suggest banned calcs anymore to students. My wife just > graduated and learned everything on a 48sx now she can't use it and > she is MAD making my life unpleasent. > > ==== Banned from EIT and PE tests, but not sure if next month or next year. ==== Sorry! I should have read it closer, banned from PE tests. Well that's a bummer! > What is the best (ie most powerful) non-banned (from PE tests) > calculator? > > My suggestion to those who make suggestions > Don't suggest banned calcs anymore to students. My wife just > graduated and learned everything on a 48sx now she can't use it and > she is MAD making my life unpleasent. > > ==== before I go to bed - my guess will currently be the 32s and soon it will be the 33s what do you think? (please help - my wife is mad as hell over this) thanks ==== >What is the best (ie most powerful) non-banned (from PE tests) >calculator? I think that all the HP calcs are to be banned as they all have Alpha editing capability, i.e., they are all capable of storing equations with variables in them. Maybe an old HP-15 would pass muster. -- Sincerely, Richard M. Smith (509) 754-1126 rmsmith@pobox.com ==== >Banned by whom? I don't understand! Banned from a math class? > >Rod > > >> What is the best (ie most powerful) non-banned (from PE tests) >> calculator? >> >> My suggestion to those who make suggestions >> Don't suggest banned calcs anymore to students. My wife just >> graduated and learned everything on a 48sx now she can't use it and >> she is MAD making my life unpleasent. >> >> > Banned for the Professional Engineer exam in the US. ==== >>> Don't suggest banned calcs anymore to students. My wife just >>> graduated and learned everything on a 48sx now she can't use it and >>> she is MAD making my life unpleasent. >> > Banned for the Professional Engineer exam in the US. Here is a link outlining the NCEES calculator policy: http://www.ncees.org/exams/calculators/ -Jeff ==== The ban starts in 2004. It is based on two issues: 1. If the calculator can communicate (only the 48G & 49G+ fall into this category that I know about.) 2. The ability to handle text. The scientific RPN calcs do not fall into this category. The ability to handle variables in equations is not an issue. Having said that, there is much work going on behind the scenes on this issue. Some of the state registration board executives believe that this rule is more than a little arbitrary. It is not yet a done deal. John > What is the best (ie most powerful) non-banned (from PE tests) > calculator? > > My suggestion to those who make suggestions > Don't suggest banned calcs anymore to students. My wife just > graduated and learned everything on a 48sx now she can't use it and > she is MAD making my life unpleasent. > > ==== Seems like the ban is more an attempt to avoid rewriting outdated questions than anything else. As far as 'removing' questions from the exam site, a simple substitution code and some available registers will do the trick. Even the 33S has enough available registers to tote out a question or two. Come to think of it, most exam takers can handle memorizing one problem...with 3000 folks at an exam site, that's lots of potential worker bees to carry out bits of the exam. Seems like one company used to do just that on FAA exams (pay test takers to memorize a question). FOIA finally forced the FAA into the last century (the early '80s, I think) and now all tests are given on demand at Sylvan, Plato, etc., with each test randomly assembled from a few thousand questions. I suppose we'll have to go back to slide rules to truly address the issue. > The ban starts in 2004. It is based on two issues: > > 1. If the calculator can communicate (only the 48G & 49G+ fall into this > category that I know about.) > 2. The ability to handle text. The scientific RPN calcs do not fall into > this category. The ability to handle variables in equations is not an issue. > > Having said that, there is much work going on behind the scenes on this > issue. Some of the state registration board executives believe that this > rule is more than a little arbitrary. It is not yet a done deal. > > John > > What is the best (ie most powerful) non-banned (from PE tests) > calculator? > > My suggestion to those who make suggestions > Don't suggest banned calcs anymore to students. My wife just > graduated and learned everything on a 48sx now she can't use it and > she is MAD making my life unpleasent. > > ==== > >Banned by whom? I don't understand! Banned from a math class? > >Rod > > >> What is the best (ie most powerful) non-banned (from PE tests) >> calculator? >> >> My suggestion to those who make suggestions >> Don't suggest banned calcs anymore to students. My wife just >> graduated and learned everything on a 48sx now she can't use it and >> she is MAD making my life unpleasent. >> >> > > Banned for the Professional Engineer exam in the US. Ahh, I thought you meant physical education in the UK! Dave ==== I seek recommendations for the best online catalog download for the HP49. There are several on hpcalc.org but hardly anyone has voted on them and none of them are recommended downloads. Meanwhile I will try them one at a time, but I ask just in case anyone has formed an impression about accuracy and completeness. ==== http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3940 Use SD.UL Veli-Pekka > I seek recommendations for the best online catalog download for the > HP49. There are several on hpcalc.org but hardly anyone has voted on > them and none of them are recommended downloads. Meanwhile I will try > them one at a time, but I ask just in case anyone has formed an > impression about accuracy and completeness. ==== > http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3940 > Use SD.UL > Veli-Pekka > ==== The HP49G and hp49g+ both have a BetaTesting command that returns the first names of the beta testers. To see the list, do 256.05 MENU, then press [F2] [down-arrow]. The lists are the same, EXCEPT that in the 49g+ Eva (the only female in the list?) has been removed :-( and two lines of new names have been added to the end: Shane Robert Mathew Alistair Manrique Ivan Mathew with one t? Interesting. In any case, here's a silly program that will determine whether you're using a 49G or 49g+: << BetaTesting SIZE 2 MOD >> Output: 1 means 49G, 0 means 49g+. Be sure to do 256 ATTACH before keying in this program, of course. -Joe- ==== > The HP49G and hp49g+ both have a BetaTesting command that returns > the first names of the beta testers. To see the list, do 256.05 MENU, > then press [F2] [down-arrow]. > > The lists are the same, EXCEPT that in the 49g+ Eva (the only female > in the list?) has been removed :-( and two lines of new names have > been added to the end: > > Shane Robert Mathew > Alistair Manrique Ivan > > Mathew with one t? Interesting. > > In any case, here's a silly program that will determine whether you're > using a 49G or 49g+: > > << BetaTesting SIZE 2 MOD >> > Output: 1 means 49G, 0 means 49g+. > Be sure to do 256 ATTACH before keying in this program, of course. > > -Joe- It seems this could break if HP adds/removes more people to/from the list. -- Bhuvanesh ==== In message <87233f9e.0310101347.467b79a2@posting.google.com>, Joseph K. >The HP49G and hp49g+ both have a BetaTesting command that returns the >first names of the beta testers. To see the list, do 256.05 MENU, then >press [F2] [down-arrow]. > >The lists are the same, EXCEPT that in the 49g+ Eva (the only female >in the list?) has been removed :-( and two lines of new names have been >added to the end: > >Shane Robert Mathew >Alistair Manrique Ivan > >Mathew with one t? Interesting. Interesting that the beta testers have to sign an NDA which stops them from publicly announcing that they are beta testers but HP *is* allowed to name them in the ROM. -- Bruce Horrocks Surrey England ==== In message <662e00ed.0310101853.1ddc50c4@posting.google.com>, Bhuvanesh >> In any case, here's a silly program that will determine whether you're >> using a 49G or 49g+: >> >> << BetaTesting SIZE 2 MOD >> >> Output: 1 means 49G, 0 means 49g+. >> Be sure to do 256 ATTACH before keying in this program, of course. >> >> -Joe- > >It seems this could break if HP adds/removes more people to/from the >list. And so what? Any other test could break if the ROM is changed. -- Bruce Horrocks Surrey England ==== << 2 CF A 0 > <<2 SF>> IFT 2 FS? >> 'T1' STO With A=1 T1 shows 1 (correct). For A=0 it shows 0 (correct) But as soon as I add another branch within the IFT above then T1 sets flag 2 every time and I just can't figure out why: Here is T1 again: << 2 CF A 0 > << 2 SF >> IFT 2 FS? >> If I just add one line: 1 FS? << 1 >> << 2 >> IFTE *within* this structure << 2 CF A 0 > << 2 SF 1 FS? << 1 >> << 2 >> IFTE >> IFT 2 FS? >> Now I get flag 2 set no matter what A is. Oh, it seems to depend on the status of flag 1!!! If flag 1 is set it seems to work as I expect. Really strange. The IFT should prevent access to the 2 SF if A is negative. Anyway that embedded IFTE seems to affect the setting of flag 2. I haven't tried with another embedded IFT. I realise that as it stands the above looks useless as such. << 1 >> & << 2 >> are just fillers. I just tried to make an example - the actual code in which is happens is a bit long. I need to use flags to avoid more complex structures. I could separate the above two IFT/IFTE but that was the way they coded naturally. Flag 2 is needed later in the mainline. - Tony ==== This should (and does) work fine. My best bet is that the program is getting a different value for A, for example if you're running the prog in a different directory, it will take the value of A there. If you step through you will see the value of A taken and the result of the inequality. If thats a zero there's no way it will enter the IFT. (To check just write 0 where the A is) Dave > > << 2 CF A 0 > <<2 SF>> IFT 2 FS? >> 'T1' STO > > With A=1 T1 shows 1 (correct). For A=0 it shows 0 (correct) > > But as soon as I add another branch within the IFT above > then T1 sets flag 2 every time and I just can't figure out > why: > > Here is T1 again: > > << > 2 CF > A 0 > > << > 2 SF >> > IFT > 2 FS? >> > > If I just add one line: > 1 FS? << 1 >> << 2 >> IFTE > *within* this structure > > << > 2 CF > A 0 > > << > 2 SF > 1 FS? << 1 >> << 2 >> IFTE >> > IFT > 2 FS? >> > > Now I get flag 2 set no matter what A is. > Oh, it seems to depend on the status of flag 1!!! > If flag 1 is set it seems to work as I expect. > Really strange. > The IFT should prevent access to the 2 SF if A is negative. > Anyway that embedded IFTE seems to affect the > setting of flag 2. I haven't tried with another embedded IFT. > I realise that as it stands the above looks useless as such. > << 1 >> & << 2 >> are just fillers. > I just tried to make an example - the actual code in which is > happens is a bit long. I need to use flags to avoid more > complex structures. > > I could separate the above two IFT/IFTE but that was the way > they coded naturally. Flag 2 is needed later in the > mainline. > > - Tony > ==== -=[ Fri, 3.10.03 10:22 a.m. +1200 (NZT) ]=- in message ID <10543402ROBOTLX@news.cis.dfn.de> : > > << 2 CF A 0 > <<2 SF>> IFT 2 FS? >> 'T1' STO [...] Sorry everybody for wasting your reading time! I found the problem elsewhere in my code!!! That's the sort of message I'd like to cancel as it shows my ignorance all too clearly The branching example I gave works fine. This never would have happened if there hadn't been this great new fast hp49g+ to play with, because I wouldn't be doing RPL. I did get an HP48SX back in 1990, and used it for a few little programs, but even then I could hardly read its screen. One thing the 48SX has over the 49G and g+ is those beautiful curly backets painted on the keyboard. The newer models make {} look more and more like (). In fact, to my eyes the [] {} and () on the 49g+ all look much the same. The hp corporate font needs tweaking ;-) -- Tony Hutchins Wellington New Zealand #86 A misty morning does not signify a cloudy day. Ancient Proverb ==== -=[ Fri, 3.10.03 11:05 a.m. +1200 (NZT) ]=- in message ID : > This should (and does) work fine. > My best bet is that the program is getting a different > value for A, for example if you're running the prog in a > different directory, it will take the value of A there. That was basically it - A was effectively being calculated earlier, and should have been zero, but I had an error!! > If you step through you will see the value of A taken and the result of the > inequality. If thats a zero there's no way it will enter the IFT. > (To check just write 0 where the A is) Ahha. Guess what. I don't know how to single-step through a program!!!! I have the 48SX user manuals, and the programmers reference, but I see on www.hpcalc.org there is an advanced reference as well, which I don't have. I looked in the HP48 FAQ. No luck. Can you give me a pointer on how to single step? Ahha it must be DBUG!!! Yup, and I saw that mentioned in the hp49g+ pdf manual - so, it *is* good for something after all :) I just tried DBUG - magnificent! See, Dave, you never know how helpful a few words can be :) I must actually read the hp49g+ pdf manual :) It's quite possible I may get to like it - I noticed they use the cardiod for a polar plot example - good choice - just what I see on the surface of my coffee, when the sun it out or the light is on. - implementing some old favourite routines that I know well, and I was getting by with a few more global variables than necessary - I'd check them to see how the routine went. Tony ==== Thats ok. Reckon thats why this newsgroup is here. Btw a good source for User Rpl is the HP48 Advanced Users Reference Manual. Dave > -=[ Fri, 3.10.03 11:05 a.m. +1200 (NZT) ]=- > > > in message ID : > > This should (and does) work fine. > > > My best bet is that the program is getting a different > value for A, for example if you're running the prog in a > different directory, it will take the value of A there. > > That was basically it - A was effectively being calculated > earlier, and should have been zero, but I had an error!! > > If you step through you will see the value of A taken and the result of the > inequality. If thats a zero there's no way it will enter the IFT. > (To check just write 0 where the A is) > > Ahha. Guess what. I don't know how to single-step through a > program!!!! I have the 48SX user manuals, and the programmers > reference, but I see on www.hpcalc.org there is an advanced > reference as well, which I don't have. I looked in the HP48 > FAQ. No luck. > > Can you give me a pointer on how to single step? > Ahha it must be DBUG!!! Yup, and I saw that mentioned in the > hp49g+ pdf manual - so, it *is* good for something after all > :) I just tried DBUG - magnificent! See, Dave, you never know > how helpful a few words can be :) > > I must actually read the hp49g+ pdf manual :) > It's quite possible I may get to like it - I noticed they use > the cardiod for a polar plot example - good choice - just what > I see on the surface of my coffee, when the sun it out or the > light is on. > > - implementing some old favourite routines that I know well, > and I was getting by with a few more global variables than > necessary - I'd check them to see how the routine went. > > Tony > ==== I have a 48SX and have unfortunately lost my user manuals. Is there any place I can but new ones anybody know of? (I realize this is not so likely, but wanted to check anyway.) Caj Zell ==== > I have a 48SX and have unfortunately lost my user manuals. Is there > any place I can but new ones anybody know of? look at www.hpcalc.org ..Heiko ==== > I have a 48SX and have unfortunately lost my user manuals. Is there > any place I can but new ones anybody know of? > (I realize this is not so likely, but wanted to check anyway.) > Caj Zell I see them on eBay all the time. Also, www.hpmuseum.com can sell them to you on a CD, along with the manuals for pretty much every other HP calculator. -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== Sorry, i dont have these, the only thing I could do is sent you the link to the hp site, where you can download it, but they are available only in spanish :( http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/DocumentIndex.jsp?locale=en _US&contentType=SupportManual&prodTypeId=215348&prodSeriesId=33564&docIndexId =179166&manualLang=es ==== --------------------------------------------------------------------- Check EBay - a used HP-48SX with manuals will run between $70 and $120 - about two to three times what just the manuals will go for, but you'll have a backup if the ON key dies. > Sorry, i dont have these, the only thing I could do is sent you the > link to the hp site, where you can download it, but they are available > only in spanish :( > > http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/DocumentIndex.jsp?locale=en_ US&contentType=SupportManual&prodTypeId=215348&prodSeriesId=33564&docIndexId= 179166&manualLang=es ==== I'm trying reply to a message but i can see the replies. I'm doing that (it's anything wrong?): When i'm on the message windows i click the second tip, one with this URL: http://webnews.kornet.net/reply.cgi?group=comp.sys.hp48&msgid=156111 then, i get a window like this with RE:suject and all i write my reply and make click in first click, who has this: javascript:checkForm(document.replyform); Then i see my message but when i go to the general list can't see it.. What is the problem? -------------- 인터.b3[CapitalYAc ute] 카리.bd보[P aragraph] KORNET ------------- Carly Fiorina is set to bring her management skills and deep understanding of how to run a company to California, as she joins Arnold Schwarzenegger's transition team. To quote fark.com, California to be shut down and moved to third world country in three months. HP's Press Release: The Inquirer's Sarcastic Take: Computer World Article: -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== I wonder what Arnie will do in return ... ... German translations for HP manuals? :-) Jordi -- ==== >Carly Fiorina is set to bring her management skills and deep understanding >of how to run a company to California, as she joins Arnold Schwarzenegger's >transition team. To quote fark.com, California to be shut down and moved >to third world country in three months. > >HP's Press Release: > >The Inquirer's Sarcastic Take: > >Computer World Article: Well now there are two Stooges. I wonder who the third one will be? Harold A. Climer Physics/Geology/Astronomy Lab Instructor U. Tennessee At Chattanooga ==== > Carly Fiorina is set to bring her management skills and deep understanding > of how to run a company to California, as she joins Arnold Schwarzenegger's > transition team. To quote fark.com, California to be shut down and moved > to third world country in three months. Oh, great. He's just been elected and already he's make his first *big* mistake. I'm *so* glad I don't live in California... -- Wayne Brown (HPCC #1104) | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== > Carly Fiorina is set to bring her management skills and deep understanding X > The Inquirer's Sarcastic Take: That is no sarcasm, that's the Carly Way note that hp logo is now hp not HP, also the models are hp now I wonder why did they opt doe the SD card, when there was already a very popular much more versatile CF available (CF - get it?) ==== > Carly Fiorina is set to bring her management skills and deep understanding > of how to run a company to California, as she joins Arnold Schwarzenegger's > transition team. To quote fark.com, California to be shut down and moved > to third world country in three months. I don't understand why on this forum you express dissapointment with Ms Fiorina. As far as calculators go, she actually achieved in one year much more, than original HP ACO was able to do in many years. She dumped outdated hardware together with ACO which turned out to be the greatest obstacle to further progress of high end HP calculators. She managed to switch from dead Saturn architecture to modern hardware and achieved excellent calculator mainly thanks to outsourcing. Jack ==== > Oh, great. He's just been elected and already he's make his first *big* > mistake. I'm *so* glad I don't live in California... Where do you live ? Missouri ? Jack ==== [...] > I don't understand why on this forum you express dissapointment with Ms Fiorina. > As far as calculators go, she actually achieved in one year > much more, than original HP ACO was able to do in many years. > She dumped outdated hardware together with ACO which turned out > to be the greatest obstacle to further progress of high end HP calculators. > She managed to switch from dead Saturn architecture to modern hardware > and achieved excellent calculator mainly thanks to outsourcing. > Jack I doubt Carly has any direct impact on calculators, and her indirect impact has been negative. I'm sorry I won't offer any ex-insider information, but there's enough information publicly available: http://www.hpcalc.org/goodbyeaco.php http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/bios/fiorina.html http://www.hpmuseum.org/xpand.htm http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php Piecing things together, it looks like ACO was on the way to build great things (Xpander, Calypso), but got shut (shot?) down before being able to achieve them, because the company goals and infrastructure kept shifting and short-term returns were expected. hp, invent? It felt more like hp, prevent... ACO was developping new hardware and software and even a new calculator philosophy back in 1999... Surprise, surprise, Carly arrives in mid-1999, and Xpander is canned a few months later. What do you think of that, Jack? It seems Carly is responsible for dumping NEW hardware, which is why the old one is still around (even now, as it seems it's emulated). I salute the new calculator division for being able to release products under these stressful conditions. I hope they'll have more freedom and be given the necessary time to make even greater products. Now, more personally, what I don't like about your comments, Jack, is that you make assumptions about things you can know nothing about and present them as The Truth. You have no idea of what's happening inside hp. I'd appreciate if you could better show that, like I _think_ Carly is great, I _believe_ she did this, etc. I'm probably biaised too, but I try to think logically about all this using the data at hand, and I'm always open to other points of view. Gerald. ==== with almost no formal education, up to power. I admire him for being such a good public speaker and for what he did with it. - Arnold Schwarzenegger 1975 > Carly Fiorina is set to bring her management skills and deep understanding > of how to run a company to California, as she joins Arnold Schwarzenegger's > transition team. To quote fark.com, California to be shut down and moved > to third world country in three months. > > HP's Press Release: > > The Inquirer's Sarcastic Take: > > Computer World Article: > > -- > -Joshua Belsky > jjbelsky@yahoo.com > http://belsky.net > ==== >> Oh, great. He's just been elected and already he's make his first *big* >> mistake. I'm *so* glad I don't live in California... > Where do you live ? Missouri ? Alabama. -- Wayne Brown (HPCC #1104) | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== > I don't understand why on this forum you express dissapointment with Ms Fiorina. You addressed your question to Joshua, but I'd like to answer it also. I'll avoid reposting my complaints about current HP calculators and mention a few other reasons. One of the most important reasons (much more important than anything that involves calculators) for me to despise Fiorina: The end of the HP3000 line of minicomputers, and in particular its associated MPE operating system and Image database. The 3000 was the single best product ever produced by HP, and Fiorina killed it. Oh, I know it was one of her yes-men -- Winston Prather -- who actually made the announcement, but I've no doubt the decision originated at a higher level. At the very least she should have *stopped* him from doing it, even if it was his idea. (I don't believe for a moment that it was his idea, though. Who volunteers to kill off his own division?) But by far the biggest reason I'd like to see Fiorina begging on the street somewhere is her treatment of Walter Hewlett. She should be on her hands and knees kissing the feet of the Hewlett and Packard families; instead she and the HP board not only opposed them in the Compaq merger, but got Hewlett thrown off the board. I *still* hope that some HP insider will get Fiorina (and the board, if possible) thrown in jail. -- Wayne Brown (HPCC #1104) | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== Even though the New York Times corrected it in late Thursday editions and again on Friday, Linda Douglass of ABC News waited until Sunday before correcting, sort of, the inaccurate quote she highlighted on Thursday's World News Tonight about how Arnold Schwarzenegger good public speaker and for what he did with it. In fact, Schwarzenegger actually said: I admire him for being such a good public speaker and for HIS WAY OF GETTING TO THE PEOPLE AND SO ON. BUT I DON'T ADMIRE HIM FOR what he did with it. But while World News Tonight featured the original quote in on-screen text, when Douglass got around to clarifying it on Sunday's This Week, she did not display the full and accurate text on screen nor read the full quote accurately, and so really did not convey the depth of her misquote. > with almost no formal education, up to power. I admire him for being such a > good public speaker and for what he did with it. - Arnold Schwarzenegger > 1975 ==== > ACO was developping new hardware and software and even a new calculator > philosophy back in 1999... Surprise, surprise, Carly arrives in mid-1999, > and Xpander is canned a few months later. What do you think of that, Jack? Vaporware :-). It is still a question if there is any market for a palm type advanced calculator. Lack of any CAS available for PocketPC or Palm might be a clue, that there is none. I admit, I would like to see one like that, but I'm in the group of people who could afford toys like this and this group is suspected to be small. If you try XPander download for PC you will find out that in the current form it is a very primitive piece of software and would have a long way to go to be any good. As far as I'm concerned ACo not only released junkware in the form of HP49 but had the stomack to defend it. That is why I think it is a good thing ACO is no more. You might not remember those days, but I've been ridiculed on this forum by ACO member for criticism of the hardware that it is impossible to dump Saturn/York architecture and that is why screen resolution and speed reached the limit. That engineer even few months ago could not belive on this forum that HP49+ is true. HP49G+ is exactly what it should be released originally insted on HP49 at least three years ago. > Gerald. Jack ==== > with almost no formal education, up to power. I admire him for being such a > good public speaker and for what he did with it. - Arnold Schwarzenegger > 1975 Please, if you citate somebody, do not cut out the rest of the citation. But I don't admire him for what he did with it . - Arnold Schwarzenegger 1975. It is a very primitive trick to use out of context citations, mainly used by sleazy politicians. freeways is also a nonesense. Jack ==== > One of the most important reasons (much more important than anything that > involves calculators) for me to despise Fiorina: The end of the HP3000 ... I don't deny this. I'm sure, that you are right about most of concerns about her, but what this has to do with HP calculators ? This forum is about calculators and as far as we are concerned about calculators, it is under her managment HP managed to release truly the best calculator on the market today, not a junk such as original HP49 that could not compete against advanced TI's. In my opinion this new calc has a sea of opportunity to be improved once Saturn emulation is eliminated and replaced with ARM native software with future releases. I don't have (and never had) any other HP device except HP calculators and for me her arrival was a blessing. Finally Saturn / York nonsense was put to the electronic graveyard. ACO by its short vision of whats wrong with this hardware combination unfortunately was disbanded too, but they can only blame themselves. Releasing HP49 junk was simply a bad decision that ruined sales and turned out to be financial flop. It did not matter that ACO programmers were very bright. They had zero experience with real life market challenges and their managment turned to be equally inept. Jack ==== > Where do you live ? Missouri ? > > Alabama. The reason I asked is, that you seem to dislike Republicans and probably consider Davis to be a great governor that was ousted in a landslide by idiots :-) As far as I remeber George W Bush won Alabama, so what that tells us about Alabama ? :-) I'm just surprised that you are happy that you don't live in the richest state of the union, one that has the most advanced high-tech industry in the world, one that if left alone is the fifth richest country in the world, one that leads union in many new leftist ideas under Democrat administration, one that has the most stringent enviromental laws in the world, and finally one that is the home of Peoples Republic of Berkeley :-) (double) Just kidding :-) Jack ==== > > Where do you live ? Missouri ? > > Alabama. > Go VOL's Tennesee Tom ;-) ==== > > > > Where do you live ? Missouri ? > > Alabama. > > > Go VOL's > > Tennesee Tom ;-) > > Whoops, 'scuuuuse me, I meant to say: Roll Tide ==== >> Where do you live ? Missouri ? >> >> Alabama. > The reason I asked is, that you seem to dislike Republicans and probably consider Davis to be a great governor > that was ousted in a landslide by idiots :-) Good heavens, NO! I'd prefer that Arnold was a Conservative rather than a Moderate, but I have no other problem with him -- except for his choice of Fiorina. > As far as I remeber George W Bush won Alabama, so what that tells us about Alabama ? :-) Well, I'm one of the people in Alabama who *voted* for Bush. My wife and oldest son are two of the others. > I'm just surprised that you are happy that you don't live in the richest state of the union, > one that has the most advanced high-tech industry in the world, one that if left alone > is the fifth richest country in the world, one that leads union in many new leftist > ideas under Democrat administration, one that has the most stringent enviromental > laws in the world, and finally one that is the home of Peoples Republic of Berkeley :-) (double) No thanks. I'd rather stay as far as possible from the Left Coast. :-) -- Wayne Brown (HPCC #1104) | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== >> One of the most important reasons (much more important than anything that >> involves calculators) for me to despise Fiorina: The end of the HP3000 ... > I don't deny this. I'm sure, that you are right about most of > concerns about her, but what this has to do with HP calculators ? > This forum is about calculators and as far as we are concerned about > calculators, it is under her managment HP managed to release > truly the best calculator on the market today, not a junk such as > original HP49 that could not compete against advanced TI's. > In my opinion this new calc has a sea of opportunity to be improved > once Saturn emulation is eliminated and replaced with ARM native > software with future releases. Well, I don't agree that the 49G+ is such a great improvement over the original 49G. It's better, but not *that* much better. I still prefer the 48GX. Unlike you, I have no problem with the Saturn architecture. It's plenty fast enough for me, and a 2MB expansion card is all the memory I need. So all the stuff about higher speeds and SD cards and the other hardware advantages of the 49G+ mean nothing to me, because I don't need any of that. The advantages are far outweighed (for me) by the disadvantages. The software in the 49G+ is the only thing that appeals to me, and I'd love to have the 48 hardware with the 49 ROM. But if I can't get that, I'm perfectly happy to stick with the 48 last forever. If it lasts, I'm sure I'll still be happy using my 48GX 20 years from now.) -- Wayne Brown (HPCC #1104) | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== Apologies, had swindled $9 billion and were not too inclined to pay it back. The last 'I asked Mr. Muscle's PR people to comment on the new Enron memos -- and his strange silence on Bustamante's suit or Davis' petition. But Arnold was too Schwarzenegger. Then the quotation came up that I posted here- and there is no apology for this - I mixed up and thought I had heard this before, so it must be true! What I am trying to say is that if it had been a trick it was primitive. But I believed it was true. I am not so sure about 'Jacks' last retort, ie .... > freeways is also a nonesense. .... I have no comment as to they were nonsense or not, however they were built to a great extent by forced labour. And anyone who has been alive since the collapse of the nazis can hardly be in doubt as to the state they kept their forced workers in. And if you think that is an admirable, or sensible idea (:= an idea that isn't nonsense), yeah well 'Heil'. Dave I then remembered that about 15 years ag man > with almost no formal education, up to power. I admire him for being such a > good public speaker and for what he did with it. - Arnold Schwarzenegger > 1975 > > Please, if you citate somebody, do not cut out the rest of the citation. > > But I don't admire him for what he did with it . > - Arnold Schwarzenegger 1975. > > It is a very primitive trick to use out of context citations, mainly > used by sleazy politicians. > > freeways is also a nonesense. > > Jack > > ==== > Whoops, 'scuuuuse me, I meant to say: > Roll Tide I don't care much for football myself, but my youngest son certainly would agree with that! He's a big Crimson Tide fan. Actually, if I *were* a football fan, it would be hard for me to decide which team to support. My parents are from Tennessee (and most of my family still live there); I was born in Virginia and lived the first 20 years of my life there; and most of the last 28 years were spent in Mississippi. (I've only been in Alabama since 1997). Since I went to grad school at Ole Miss I suppose the Rebels should be my choice, but I never went to a single one of their games, even though the married students' housing was across the road from the stadium (which made traffic around our apartment very bad on game days). -- Wayne Brown (HPCC #1104) | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== > is no more. You might not remember those days, but > I've been ridiculed on this forum by ACO member for criticism of the hardware Hardware-wise, I am a purritan bastard; dump the new ARM implementation that costs an arm and a leg (bad, bad humour), go back to non-emulated Saturn CPUs and assembly. If I wanted an ARM, I'd buy a PDA. Next thing, the calculatricalator will have a MIDI buzzer, true color TFT display and GPRS... -- Al. Andreou ==== > Carly Fiorina is set to bring her management skills and deep understanding > of how to run a company to California, as she joins Arnold Schwarzenegger's > transition team. To quote fark.com, California to be shut down and moved > to third world country in three months. > > HP's Press Release: > > The Inquirer's Sarcastic Take: > > Computer World Article: Sigh. Must be Fiorina's got a warehouse full of old HP pizza boxes she'd like to put California's name on. ==== > Hardware-wise, I am a purritan bastard; dump the new ARM implementation that > costs an arm and a leg (bad, bad humour), go back to non-emulated Saturn > CPUs and assembly. If I wanted an ARM, I'd buy a PDA. Next thing, the > calculatricalator will have a MIDI buzzer, true color TFT display and > GPRS... And why not? PDAs all have 64MB or more RAM. Why not a calculator with that much. I remember paying $395 (in 1971 dollars!) for an HP-35. Why wouldn't people pay the same today for all the power that can be packed into a handheld device? Go for the high end, HP! (or is it hp now?) Tom Lake ==== > Hardware-wise, I am a purritan bastard; dump the new ARM implementation > that > costs an arm and a leg (bad, bad humour), go back to non-emulated Saturn > CPUs and assembly. If I wanted an ARM, I'd buy a PDA. Next thing, the > calculatricalator will have a MIDI buzzer, true color TFT display and > GPRS... > > And why not? PDAs all have 64MB or more RAM. Why not a calculator with > that much. I remember paying $395 (in 1971 dollars!) for an HP-35. Why > wouldn't people pay the same today for all the power that can be packed into > a handheld device? Go for the high end, HP! (or is it hp now?) We have different apparatus for different people: Saturn is sufficient to first three levels, I guess (if not an overkill for the simplest) 1) Four-banger, maximum sqrt, %, and M+/RM, etc 2) Scientific 3) Scientific programmable (numeric solver & integrator) 4) Graphing numeric solver & integrator 5) Graphing symbolic solver & integrator 6) PDA color display with calculator keyboard = Motorola clamshell http://commerce.motorola.com/consumer/QWhtml/mpx200.html OR Samsung: OR Panasonic http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId= 11201&catalogId=13051&modelNo=GU87&surfModel=GU87 7) Vertical with real keyboard (maybe hidden QWERTY via kb overlay) like Nokia communicator or HP LX-200 or...Sony http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_Dis playProductInformation-Start;sid=4nnMRiHJserMcR5AnA3GTW7Z_A8-C-FfXbg=?Categor yName=hp_UXSeries&ProductSKU=PEGUX50%2fU&Dept=hp ==== > .... I have no comment as to they were nonsense or not, however they were > built to a great extent by forced labour. > And anyone who has been alive > since the collapse of the nazis can hardly be in doubt as to the state they > kept their forced workers in. And if you think that is an admirable, or > sensible idea (:= an idea that isn't nonsense), yeah well 'Heil'. You should also read more facts about the freeways. What you stated is not true. war and at that time nazis were not using forced labor. The intent of those public works was to fight great depression and built infrastructure for the future industrial power of the Third Reich. The same idea also included VW Beetle which was at the time designed by Ferdinand Porsche and was intended to motorize the average German folk exactly like Henry Ford did it for America with model T except Ford never had a vision to build Interstate freeways. Most of the goals of fighting depression and industraializing different give people jobs and created industrial powerhouse at the time, when other countries were really strugling with the effect of the depression. Some historians also argue, that the freeways were built to acomodate blitzreig where large armoured and motorized formations could be transported in the future war between different part of Germany. To this day Germany has the best, longest freeway system in Europe and the densest one in the world, and German public is really enjoying this great accomplishment. stupid propaganda that of course was very usefull between allied counteries during and after the war but was far from the historical facts. As Arnold by starting agressive war and holocaust. > Dave Jack ==== > Hardware-wise, I am a purritan bastard; dump the new ARM implementation that > costs an arm and a leg (bad, bad humour), go back to non-emulated Saturn The HP49 market total flop is enough to discourage this. This market flop is simply a fact. It is hard to discuss with facts, don't you think so ? Obviously purists like you are not in sufficient numbers to make this product (HP49) live in the original Saturn form. In my opinion this is the reason TI calculators are now standard. Satrun is a dead architecture from at least last five years, but it was artificially kept alive by ACO and ultimately it was the reason of ACO failure and demise. Number one complaint on this forum against HP49 was speed and outdated low resolution screen (and of course joke like rubber keyboard). > CPUs and assembly. If I wanted an ARM, I'd buy a PDA. Next thing, the > calculatricalator will have a MIDI buzzer, true color TFT display and > GPRS... If you can have it for $170, why not ? > Al. Andreou Jack ==== > And why not? PDAs all have 64MB or more RAM. Why not a calculator with > that much. I remember paying $395 (in 1971 dollars!) for an HP-35. Why > wouldn't people pay the same today for all the power that can be packed into > a handheld device? Go for the high end, HP! (or is it hp now?) > Tom Lake People payed $395 in 1971 because the only alternatives were a slide rule or waiting for time on a mainframe. The world has changed. -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== > The HP49 market total flop is enough to discourage this. This market > flop is simply a fact. It is hard to discuss with facts, don't you think so ? > Obviously purists like you are not in sufficient numbers to make this > product (HP49) live in the original Saturn form. In my opinion this is the > reason TI calculators are now standard. Satrun is a dead > architecture from at least last five years, but it was artificially kept alive > by ACO and ultimately it was the reason of ACO failure and demise. I would argue that the reason that TI is the standard in schools is that TI is the company that most aggressively pushed the idea of graphing calculators in the classroom. (A very poor idea, if you ask me.) Now, they seem to be pushing the need for graphing calculators into earlier and earlier grades, all to the detriment of students. They saw that future calculator sales would mostly go to students, and so rather than just filling that need, they created a whole *new* market (the high school graphing calculator market) and then filled it. Yes, graphing calculators existed back then, but no company had tried to convince teachers that every student should have one. -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== Please check your facts (and ensure that you have all the information) before criticizing peoples. Please check your facts (and ensure that you have all the information) before praising peoples. As for the saturn architecture, it is still present in the HP49G+ (even if it is hidden under an emulation layer), so, you can not say that HP got rid of it.... > > ACO was developping new hardware and software and even a new calculator > philosophy back in 1999... Surprise, surprise, Carly arrives in mid-1999, > and Xpander is canned a few months later. What do you think of that, Jack? > > Vaporware :-). It is still a question if there is any market for a > palm type advanced calculator. Lack of any CAS available for PocketPC > or Palm might be a clue, that there is none. I admit, I would like > to see one like that, but I'm in the group of people who could afford toys > like this and this group is suspected to be small. If you try > XPander download for PC you will find out that in the current form it is > a very primitive piece of software and would have a long way to go to be > any good. > > As far as I'm concerned ACo not only released junkware in the form > of HP49 but had the stomack to defend it. That is why I think it is a good thing ACO > is no more. You might not remember those days, but > I've been ridiculed on this forum by ACO member for criticism of the hardware > that it is impossible to dump Saturn/York architecture and that is why > screen resolution and speed reached the limit. That engineer even > few months ago could not belive on this forum that HP49+ is true. > > HP49G+ is exactly what it should be released originally insted on HP49 > at least three years ago. > > > Gerald. > > Jack > > ==== > >> Hardware-wise, I am a purritan bastard; dump the new ARM implementation that >> costs an arm and a leg (bad, bad humour), go back to non-emulated Saturn > >The HP49 market total flop is enough to discourage this. This market >flop is simply a fact. It is hard to discuss with facts, don't you think so ? >Obviously purists like you are not in sufficient numbers to make this >product (HP49) live in the original Saturn form. In my opinion this is the >reason TI calculators are now standard. Satrun is a dead >architecture from at least last five years, but it was artificially kept alive >by ACO and ultimately it was the reason of ACO failure and demise. > >Number one complaint on this forum against HP49 was speed and >outdated low resolution screen (and of course joke like rubber keyboard). > > >> CPUs and assembly. If I wanted an ARM, I'd buy a PDA. Next thing, the >> calculatricalator will have a MIDI buzzer, true color TFT display and >> GPRS... > >If you can have it for $170, why not ? > >> Al. Andreou > >Jack > I do not know where you get your information, but the processor used in TI calculator is a old or older that the Saturn. I think the first version I heard about was used in an Amiga( Remember Commodore)? Harold A. Climer Dept.Of Physics, Geology, and Astronomy U.T Chattanooga Chattanooga TN USA ==== > I do not know where you get your information, but the processor used > in TI calculator is a old or older that the Saturn. I think the first > version I heard about was used in an Amiga( Remember Commodore)? Yes, but it is way more powerfull than Saturn. Remeber, it run without problems computers such as Amiga, Macintosh and Atari TT. > Harold A. Climer > Dept.Of Physics, Geology, and Astronomy > U.T Chattanooga > Chattanooga TN USA Jack ==== > As for the saturn architecture, it is still present in the HP49G+ (even if > it is hidden under an emulation layer), so, you can not say that HP got rid > of it.... One can only do so much in one year. Especially when it is outsourced to the company that had no prior knowledge of this particular machine. I find that much more impressive than the ACO accomplishents which for years were convincing us on that list that dumping Saturn / York is impractical and would cost too much. As far as Saturn goes, you are right that it is emulated there, but it leaves tons of room for future improvement without the need of even touching hardware. All they got to do is to recode Saturn emulation into the native ARM code. Didn't you guys did similar trick for the HP49 recoding equation writer into the machine code of Saturn and touting this as a greatest achievement in the world ? I admit, you did great job with equation writer. I also belive that Chinese had talent and resources to do similar job for ARM. Jack ==== > I would argue that the reason that TI is the standard in schools is that TI > is the company that most aggressively pushed the idea of graphing calculators > in the classroom. (A very poor idea, if you ask me.) Really ? Not only TI is selling thousands of their high end calculators, but they also practically solely own the market today and did not went through the financial ruin of HP49 experiment. I doubt even HP 49G+ has any chance to win now with entrenched TI's. TI's is now starting to dominate engineering and science that for long was the area of HP domination. What do you think make yong scientists and engineers to use TI's in their work today if not their experience from the high school ? They don't even think or know that alternatives however good or bad exist . If you call it poor idea, I wonder what is you idea of good business practice ? > -Joshua Belsky > jjbelsky@yahoo.com > http://belsky.net Jack ==== X > I do not know where you get your information, but the processor used > in TI calculator is a old or older that the Saturn. I think the first > version I heard about was used in an Amiga( Remember Commodore)? Hmmm... Apple Lisa was the first that I remember. Anybody out there to remeber an older PC to use MC68000 ? ==== X > job with equation writer. I also belive that Chinese > had talent and resources to do similar job for ARM. So the Saturn emulator used in the hp 49G+ shows excellent talents when done in such a small time and being much faster than EMU48 and using so little ROM & RAM resources and even emulating BCD on a binary CPU about twice as fast as the emulated CPU. The talents of those coders seem to be extraordinary, right? ==== >> I would argue that the reason that TI is the standard in schools is that TI >> is the company that most aggressively pushed the idea of graphing calculators >> in the classroom. (A very poor idea, if you ask me.) > Really ? Not only TI is selling thousands of their high end calculators, but > they also practically solely own the market today and did not went through > the financial ruin of HP49 experiment. I doubt even HP 49G+ has any chance > to win now with entrenched TI's. TI's is now starting to dominate engineering > and science that for long was the area of HP domination. What do you think > make yong scientists and engineers to use TI's in their work today if not their > experience from the high school ? They don't even think or know that alternatives > however good or bad exist . If you call it poor idea, I wonder what is you idea > of good business practice ? >> -Joshua Belsky >> jjbelsky@yahoo.com >> http://belsky.net > Jack I call it a poor idea because it is bad for the education of the students on whom the calculators are pushed. Of course, for the company's bottom line, it is a fantastic idea. But being an engineer, not an MBA, I can see both the cost and the *value* of decisions. :) -Joshua -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== > So the Saturn emulator used in the hp 49G+ shows > excellent talents when done in such a small time > and being much faster than EMU48 and using so little > ROM & RAM resources and even emulating BCD on a binary CPU > about twice as fast as the emulated CPU. 75 MHz obviusly helps here, but I'm still wondering how many cycles are wasted to do simple 64 bit addition in BCD when the CPU has no BCD whatsoever. Any thoughts ? > The talents of those coders seem to be extraordinary, right? Extraordinary is probably an exaggeration, but they seem to achieve a fine goal of finally creating fast HP calculator in relatively short time. I also doubt, they had any prior knowledge of the inners of original HP 49 architecture unlike ACO team who had many talented programmers that were experts in Saturn architecture. Judging by initial disbelieve of JYA when the first news about HP 49G+ were posted, the original HP programming team had nothing to with this new machine. Jack ==== > I call it a poor idea because it is bad for the education of the students > on whom the calculators are pushed. I see your point. I agree that it is probably a poor idea, but I would rather blame goverment bodies responsible for curriculum. > Of course, for the company's bottom line, > it is a fantastic idea. But being an engineer, not an MBA, I can see both > the cost and the *value* of decisions. :) I can't blame company that promotes it's product for the goverment mandated program. > -Joshua > > -- > -Joshua Belsky > jjbelsky@yahoo.com > http://belsky.net Jack ==== > I can't blame company that promotes it's product for the goverment > mandated program. Sure you can. There are always limits. The people who run corporations must have some measure of morality. What we do affects others, and those who ignore that in the name of capitalism are worthy of blame. -Josh (Not a commie) -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== Or my error? Yeah well its to do with the WHERE function, which uses the CAS simplification routines. HP49G , 1.19-6 Symbolic , complex, exact modes. (rigorous makes no difference). (s/C)/(s - i*LC^-(1/2)) Setting s= - i*LC^-(1/2), by cut&paste in EqEdit returns the correct result ie 2/(4C) , albiet failing rational number criteria. Anyway the problem comes, as stated with the WHERE. Setting the same value for s via that method gives 0/0 ?!?! Dave h ==== [...] > I wonder why did they opt doe the SD card, when there was already > a very popular much more versatile CF available (CF - get it?) SD/MMC has a very simple serial interface(4 wires, SPI iirc). That is probably the reason, since there isn't always a plethora of IO pins on chips. ==== > [...] > I wonder why did they opt doe the SD card, when there was already > a very popular much more versatile CF available (CF - get it?) > SD/MMC has a very simple serial interface(4 wires, SPI iirc). That is > probably the reason, since there isn't always a plethora of IO pins on > chips. Yes, the ARM9 used in the 49g+ has SD interface support build-in I was just joking with: Carly Fiorina = CF Veli-Pekka Nousiainen ==== I am a student in Civil engineering (actually structural engineering). I wonder : are there another civil engineers students or students that had graduated in this forum ? Because I wonder if they find the hp49g useful at work after the university. Everybody here are talking about the SD card in the new hp49g+ but actually, I dont use so much space even on my hp49g... maybe I am not using all its benefits ? I am using almost every function but not so much programs. 6 programs. not more. so why do we need so much space ? Maybe HP is not inventing money in the right place ? big memory is more important than good keyboard ? i dought it.. thanks idan ==== > > I am a student in Civil engineering (actually structural engineering). > I wonder : are there another civil engineers students or students that > had graduated in this forum ? Because I wonder if they find the hp49g > useful at work after the university. Everybody here are talking about > the SD card in the new hp49g+ but actually, I dont use so much space > even on my hp49g... maybe I am not using all its benefits ? > I am using almost every function but not so much programs. 6 programs. > not more. so why do we need so much space ? Maybe HP is not inventing > money in the right place ? big memory is more important than good > keyboard ? i dought it.. > > thanks > > idan I'm afraid you may have the wrong end of the sticlk on the HP4* series of calculators. I'm sure that some of the people in this forum find its scientific features invaluable for day to day work, but most consider this to be not only the coolest toy in the universe, but also coolest toy per unit volume :-) Myself, as much as I love plotting and playing with graphics and complex calculations .. purely for fun, my interests are in the implementation and software ideas which the HP4* series merits at all levels (assembler, cpu, RPL, RPN, applications). 10+ yeas ago when the HP48s came out, they far outstripped the technology of its day. Alas, in order for the HP4* to continue to do that, they would need to be running at around 2GHz cpu speed, have 100GB of storage, and a color screen of resolution 2048x1600 or so. another 10 years maybe... Have fun with the calc! ==== well, all i have to say is :-). You are damm right. all i have to say is that there is no dought that the hp49 is a real good calculator and it has the ability to do math like MATHLAB and MAPLE and its mathematic capeabilities is beyond my expectations... but when i surf the net and see all the handhelds which cost 200 $ it makes me mad. because i wonder : where the hell are all the human engineers in hp company ? for me - all i want is the hp49g with : rechagable batteries inside the calc, lightable monochrom screen (but lighted). and GOOD KEYBOARD !!!!!!!!! HP - DO U HEAR ? - GOOOOOOD K E Y B O A R D .... you know - the first lesson in computres in school is that you have INPUT and OUTPUT. well - if we take a look at the hp49g - we have difficult input (bad keyboard) and bad output (rainbow effect screen)... its basics, man, basics.. All the best idan ==== > > Flag 123 should be set, but I suspect it doesn't work for all commands - > most though. > > The numeric solver is not meant to find roots - just unknown variables. If > you want to find roots numerically you have to enter the coefficients as > vectors, after choosing 'solve poly' from the num solv menu. > > Why bother though, just use the symbolic solve on the equation and it will > find the roots, imaginary part and all. > > Dave h > > Thanx a lot, Dave! First try with the symbolic solve and its quite cool! Kaspaas ==== and and a CD with software and manuals I know I need a cable, but the ones I have seen are serial only. I have see postings on the use of USB cables Do I need to buy a serial to USB connector I cannot find USB cables and software from calculator ordering sites. Unless I am missing something? http://www.hpcalculators.com/ https://www.calcpro.com/ http://www.educalc.net/ Will someone please clear this up for me? What about software? David Gent gent.d@neu.edu ==== A USB cable comes with the 49G+. So does the software. Al > and and a CD with software and manuals > > I know I need a cable, but the ones I have seen are serial only. > > I have see postings on the use of USB cables > Do I need to buy a serial to USB connector > > I cannot find USB cables and software from calculator ordering sites. > Unless I am missing something? > http://www.hpcalculators.com/ > https://www.calcpro.com/ > http://www.educalc.net/ > > Will someone please clear this up for me? > What about software? > > David Gent > gent.d@neu.edu ==== It is possible downloading / accessing from the connectivity kit directly to the SD-card in a hp49g+ ? This feature would be nice, so I could use my hp49g+ with a SD-card as a portable data storage like a zip disk or USB flash stick. Perhaps it will be implemented in a future Connetcivity Kit version. What do you think about it? ==== Direct back up of any port to USB would be extremely nice. The User Guide(s) also needs an addentum of this. To JYA: No, I did not look at the manual, neither test this before writing here and pressing send. > > It is possible downloading / accessing from the connectivity kit > directly to the SD-card in a hp49g+ ? This feature would be nice, so I > could use my hp49g+ with a SD-card as a portable data storage like a zip > disk or USB flash stick. > > Perhaps it will be implemented in a future Connetcivity Kit version. > > What do you think about it? > > > ==== I purchased an hp49g+ from Singapore, serial No:CN33109123, but the connectivity program Conn4x is not able to locate the calculator. The connect using box identifies the calculator: HP9xg+ once you have plugged it in to the USB port, then you are instructed to press right red button and right arrow on the calculator, and the calculator displays Awaiting Server Cmd. On the computer you get Looking for calculator then an error message of Unable to open communications to HPx9G+ Any help would be appreciated. Andrew Buckwell ==== > I purchased an hp49g+ from Singapore, serial No:CN33109123, but the > connectivity program Conn4x is not able to locate the calculator. The > connect using box identifies the calculator: HP9xg+ once you have plugged it > in to the USB port, then you are instructed to press right red button and right > arrow on the calculator, and the calculator displays Awaiting Server Cmd. On > the computer you get Looking for calculator then an error message of Unable > to open communications to HPx9G+ Any help would be appreciated. Andrew > Buckwell Andy, it may be that the USB drivers for the calculator were not installed. Plug the calculator in and press ON. Does Windows say something like unknown USB device or does it say HPX9G+. If it says unknown device, then you will have to manually install the HP49G+ USB driver. 1. Get the latest version of the software from HP web at: http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/SoftwareDescription.jsp?loc ale=en_US&lang=English+%28US%29&pnameOID=351776&prodSeriesId=33568&prodTypeId =215348&basePartNum=COL4344&locBasepartNum=ca-14082-1&os=Microsoft+Windows+20 00&tech=Application 2. Go ahead and install this later version of Conn4x. (This will not solve your problem yet). 3. Use WinZIP and unpack the sp00001.exe that you downloaded in step 1. Don't RUN the program, use WINZIP and unpack the file. directory where you unpacked the files in step 3. Windows should select the HPx9G+ driver. Once the driver installs, Conn4x will start to see your calculator. I am not sure but I think that the install program does not install the drivers. I have it all working for me, here! -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com ==== As the subject line states, I need to convert three directories from the format of the 48GX to the 49G+. Is this possible? Would anyone be interested in converting these for me? (for a proper fee of course). Please comment upon what the steps would be. John Evers ==== If you have the source code, Debug4x will do this quite easily. If you don't have the source . . . -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com > As the subject line states, I need to convert three directories from > the format of the 48GX to the 49G+. Is this possible? Would anyone be > interested in converting these for me? (for a proper fee of course). > Please comment upon what the steps would be. > > John Evers ==== I know and I will change my games sources but a lot of games and other progs can't be changed. And maybe it's possible to change the ARM speed by software (Cf: the ARM speed on HP48II et HP49+ are differents) Cyrille ??? > it's possible to slow down the HP49+ (like the HP28) ?? > or maybe introduce this new feature in a new ROM release ?? > > I doubt that such a possibility exist at present. The HP49+ OS is not > emulated as a whole but some sensitive parts are rewritten in native ARM > code. Thus, I guess the SysRPL-programmer is responsable for his game's > speed by himself. Thus, all speed-senstive games may need revision. > > My collection of animations in ANI49 on hpcalc.org is running perfectly > on the HP49+ since the animator (called ANI) was conceived from the very > beginning such that one can alter the speed with UpArrow and DownArrow. > The Horse may now run in unbelievable speed over the screen if wanted, > but it may also run slow enough to watch its elegant movements. > > Windows-like Tetris games with self-growing speed probably need revision > whereas my TETRI needs no updating at all because the user can reduce > the dropping speed during the game. This remains in memory until a next > change. My other game, a modernization of the old 48-MINEHUNT, runs also > absolutly perfect on the new engine, but only in ROM 1.22. > > - Wolfgang ==== It will eventually appear on hpcalc.org, but thanks to one of the authors (William Graves) you can now get the latest version of Debug4x.zip at: http://www.handheld.org/Debug4x.zip This version includes support for the HP 49G+ as well as the 49G and 48. ==== Just out of curiosity, will it be easy for me to find out if my 49g+ has the keyboard problems cited so many times in this group? Like many others, I have preordered mine from Samson cables, and hope to have it soon. Are the problem keys really apparent, or is there a certain technique to employ to find out if I've got a good one? Please describe the different problems you encounter.... - Mitch ==== > Just out of curiosity, will it be easy for me to find out if my 49g+ has the > keyboard problems cited so many times in this group? Like many others, I > have preordered mine from Samson cables, and hope to have it soon. > > Are the problem keys really apparent, or is there a certain technique to > employ to find out if I've got a good one? Please describe the different > problems you encounter.... > I tested a keyboard with a HP 28S & 48SX user and there was not a miss of a single key even though in my hands the decimal point was not always registering. You test the dissatisfaction using a light touch enough to trigger the tactile click, but not deep to bottom push (possible pun not intended) ==== I got one last week from Cynox. There were problems with the Keys 4, V, K and ON I sent it back, because it's too unsecure. On my beloved 48 SX I had never a difficulties in 'blind typing'. But it is not possible on an 49g and on a 49g+, too. Cynox told me, that there are a lot of the new HPs are sent back in the moment. They said, that they will return my money and I should ask in two or three months. (sigh !!) Stefan ==== I bought a program a few years ago (educalc?) called tblib. It was written by J. Donnelly I believe. I have long since lost the original disk with the intructions, though I still have the programs on my calculator. Does anyone have the arguements that you put on the stack or other directions for TBLIB? Know how to find the author? Also, it occurs to me that in the elapsed time, there may be other programs that will serve as well. What I want to do is scroll quickly up and down a list of 75 programs that I use as a machinist, select one, and run it from this list. The programs are in a few libraries in a port. Steve ==== > Does anyone have the arguements that you put on the stack or other > directions for TBLIB? Know how to find the author? > Input parameters: Level 3: {data list} Level 2: {menu label list} Level 1: {current_item first_row title} Output parameters: level 3: {current_item title} level 2: current_item level 1: terminator_key (0=ATTN;1=ENTER;-n=menulabel} If you need further info ask me. I've still got the manual. > Also, it occurs to me that in the elapsed time, there may be other > programs that will serve as well. > Of course there are a lot of alternatives but... Do you still have an HP48s[x] of do you have an G-series one. I ask because of the real difference in the later the builtin options and the ones in www.hpcalc.org are many more. In any case that site is your place to look for. I remember one called XMenu very ease to use and others. Hope this helps ==== Several existing libraries for the 49 could easily adapted to the 49+ with a SysRPL command with output TRUE/FALSE if running on the 49+/49, resp. Is there such a (supported or at least stable) pointer for that? Clearly, the command should be understood by both calculators. For instance, library Timeman would run perfectly also on the 49+ if I put a VERYSLOW in the main loop to slow it down (saving the batteries by the way). If there were such a command, one lib would be sufficient for both calcs. The question is important since it is still unclear whether a new section HP49+ has to be created on hpcalc.org. - Wolfgang ==== I have preordered a 49G+ to replace my dear 49G. Is there any reason (aside from sentimental) to keep the original 49G? I notice that the price they fetch on eBay is currently quite good, and I am considering parting with the original one to offset the price of the new one. Any reason that this would be a bad idea? I also have an older 48G and a nearly unused TI-89. I'd love to keep them all, but my wife isn't warmly acceptant of my calculator compulsiveness. I enjoy having a spare calculator around, but I am thinking that I can sell all three older models and purchase two of the new units... Advice / Psychoanalysis, please... -Mitch ==== > I have preordered a 49G+ to replace my dear 49G. Is there any reason (aside > from sentimental) to keep the original 49G? I notice that the price they > fetch on eBay is currently quite good, and I am considering parting with the > original one to offset the price of the new one. Any reason that this would > be a bad idea? I also have an older 48G and a nearly unused TI-89. I'd > love to keep them all, but my wife isn't warmly acceptant of my calculator > compulsiveness. I enjoy having a spare calculator around, but I am thinking > that I can sell all three older models and purchase two of the new units... > > Advice / Psychoanalysis, please... > You have to keep them all! The new 49G+ needs some comparison and you have the perfect trio: 49, 48, 89 Also, you just can't ditch any of them even later, because who knows when a new question about speed/can-it-do-this arises ==== I believe you are entitled to keep one calculator for every pair of shoes that she has ..... Roberto ==== > > I believe you are entitled to keep one calculator for every pair of shoes > that she has ..... > > Roberto I believe you are entitled to keep one pair of calculators for every pair of shoes that she has ..... 2*48SX, 2*48GX, 2*49G, 2*49G+, 2*71B, 2*32SII, 2*17BII, 2*41CX, 2*28S and she still has much more shoes! ==== > I have preordered a 49G+ to replace my dear 49G. Is there any reason > (aside > from sentimental) to keep the original 49G? I notice that the price they > fetch on eBay is currently quite good, and I am considering parting with > the > original one to offset the price of the new one. Any reason that this > would > be a bad idea? I also have an older 48G and a nearly unused TI-89. I'd > love to keep them all, but my wife isn't warmly acceptant of my calculator > compulsiveness. I enjoy having a spare calculator around, but I am > thinking > that I can sell all three older models and purchase two of the new > units... > > Advice / Psychoanalysis, please... I successfully sold my 49G. With all the cost going into listing and for the price i sold for the 49g, i only had to pay around $20 more for the 49g+, which i pre-ordered. i think the 49g+ is in every way equal to the 49g, so keeping the 49g is a bit redundant. Plus the 49g+ is faster. the ti-89 is good to keep because it's a good calc with the best statistics app on any calculator. Dave ==== > I have preordered a 49G+ to replace my dear 49G. Is there any reason (aside > from sentimental) to keep the original 49G? > Advice / Psychoanalysis, please... Personally, I have barely touched the 49G after getting the G+. I think the G+ is better in every way - the G seems so sloooooow in comparision its unusable. Only thing is - I suggest you turn the clock off. This makes the screen flicker occur only a fraction of the time. The flicker is a little annoying but the speed increase, and other improvements more then make up for it. If I were you, I'd probably sell the 49G. > I enjoy having a spare calculator around, but I am thinking > that I can sell all three older models and purchase two of the new >units... I have to ask... Why do you need *two* G+'s :-p cheers, Al > > -Mitch > > ==== > I have preordered a 49G+ to replace my dear 49G. Is there any reason (aside > from sentimental) to keep the original 49G? > > > Advice / Psychoanalysis, please... > > Personally, I have barely touched the 49G after getting the G+. I think > the G+ is better in every way - the G seems so sloooooow in comparision > its unusable. > > Only thing is - I suggest you turn the clock off. This makes the screen > flicker occur only a fraction of the time. The flicker is a little > annoying but the speed increase, and other improvements more then make > up for it. Does it also decrease the screen flickering if you set the clock to analog?...because the clock is updated once per minute instead of every second. Dave ==== > Does it also decrease the screen flickering if you set the clock to > analog?...because the clock is updated once per minute instead of > every second. Yes, if 'analog' is set, the bottom 2 pixel lines still flicker once every 1-3 seconds (I have not timed it). If no clock is displayed, the screen only flickers once after you stop hitting keys. I guess the flicker occurs whenever the CPU changes speed. This is a pity, as I like having the clock showing. A workaround would be to only have the clock display *update* whever the CPU changes speed (eg a key is pressed). This avoids the flickering and still makes the clock useful. Al > > Dave <3f7a30dc$0$23606$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au> ==== > Does it also decrease the screen flickering if you set the clock to > analog?...because the clock is updated once per minute instead of > every second. No matter what type of clock is used, the clock is updated every second as that's how the OS works. ==== Typo, that should be 'No', not 'yes' ==== Hey! How did my compulsive calculator habit question turn into another post on the $%^ flickering clock? The reason I want two calcs is based on the (slight) possibility of calculator failure during an exam. Nowadays my fellow science students are TI embedded, so even if I could borrow one, I'm not sure I can speak non-RPN anymore. I've thought about what you all have said, and I will indeed keep my old calcs. I love my 49G, somewhat stiff keys and all, and I expect to love its younger, faster brother even more. If the new keyboard does indeed cause problems, I will be disappointed. I don't need perfect keys, but I would like fast, reliable data entry. Mitch > Does it also decrease the screen flickering if you set the clock to > analog?...because the clock is updated once per minute instead of > every second. > > No matter what type of clock is used, the clock is updated every second > as that's how the OS works. > ==== Para usaurios en espa.96ol: Es para usarla como impresora serial termica en M$-DOS y tambien en M$W95 y tambi.8en standalone (se la quiero enchufar a la HP 48GX/HP 49). Nota: Dice en una p.87gina que el equipo se dise.96.97 para una tal PCJr (IBM) y su conector original era un Berg, pero la m.92a tiene conector DB-25, no funciona tal vez est.8e mal el conector serial o el necio intento de imprimir sin usar driver alguno. Finalmente, la HP tiene Kermit, Xon/Xoff, XModem, YModem y ZModem ademas de que reza el Advanced User's Manual que puede habilitar cualquier dispositivo serial que entienda su protocolo de comunicacion. Ya con esta me despido... la calc HP permite comunicarse seleccionando desde 1200 hasta 9600 baud con ajustes de paridad, translaci.97n de caracteres etc. Well, there's tons of talk here about the 49G+ (of course) and a bit about the 48GII, but almost nothing about the 33S. Does anybody have one of these yet? Has anybody seen one for sale anywhere? Now that the 32SII is a valuable collectors item, I would like something else to lug around town that I don't have to be as paranoid about the destruction of. So when are we going to get some reviews? I'm especially interested in the keyboard (another of course) and the complex mode. The thing sure looks like it is an HP32SII in every way except for the new screen. I sure hope it isn't an HP32SII with respect to complex numbers, though! -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== > Well, there's tons of talk here about the 49G+ (of course) and a bit about > the 48GII, but almost nothing about the 33S. Does anybody have one of these > yet? Has anybody seen one for sale anywhere? I have pre-ordered one. According to the Swiss reseller, it will be available in October. Ciao, Juergen ==== > > it has sand inside. Is it easy to open and to put it back together? Any tips > about how to do it? > > Marturo > Inside the battery compartment, you will find the heads of a number (six? nine? -- can't remember at the moment) of rivets that hold the machine together. Using a suitable hand-held drill-bit, carefully ream off the rivet heads. You can then lever around the edges of the case with a knife, starting at the bottom end, to separate the halves of the case. On reassembly, you should find that the clips around the edges of the case are enough to hold it together quite well in the absence of the rivets. Your milage may vary, not responsible for damage, &c. James ==== I try and failed. It's very tricky and time consuming to open HP48 up though. The adhesive plate is warped and it is not possible to straighten it up when sticking it back to the top plate. I did separate the HP without any major damage except for the warped adhesive plate by drilling the plastic rivet holding the top and bottom together underneath the Aluminum plate. Unfortunately, I make a big mistake when trying to unwarp the top plate with a heat gun. Now the key doesn't work at all. The open HP48 is good for the garbbage. Well, I have a good reason to buy an HP-48GX with 128KB ram :-). ==== > > I try and failed. It's very tricky and time consuming to open HP48 up > though. The adhesive plate is warped and it is not possible to > straighten it up when sticking it back to the top plate. I did > separate the HP without any major damage except for the warped > adhesive plate by drilling the plastic rivet holding the top and > bottom together underneath the Aluminum plate. Unfortunately, I make > a big mistake when trying to unwarp the top plate with a heat gun. > Now the key doesn't work at all. The open HP48 is good for the > garbbage. > > Well, I have a good reason to buy an HP-48GX with 128KB ram :-). Buy a new 49G+, it is much faster and the keys do click ==== >> >> Well, I have a good reason to buy an HP-48GX with 128KB ram :-). > Buy a new 49G+, it is much faster and the keys do click They click, but they may not register the keypress... -- Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== > I try and failed. It's very tricky and time consuming to open HP48 up > though. The adhesive plate is warped and it is not possible to > straighten it up when sticking it back to the top plate. I did > separate the HP without any major damage except for the warped > adhesive plate by drilling the plastic rivet holding the top and > bottom together underneath the Aluminum plate. Unfortunately, I make > a big mistake when trying to unwarp the top plate with a heat gun. > Now the key doesn't work at all. The open HP48 is good for the > garbbage. > Well, I have a good reason to buy an HP-48GX with 128KB ram :-). SAVE THE RUBBER FEET!!! -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== >> Well, I have a good reason to buy an HP-48GX with 128KB ram :-). > Buy a new 49G+, it is much faster and the keys do click > They click, but they may not register the keypress... That's true. Even a 5-day permanent use didn't improve the situation. Hence I called Mister Weinert (Chief of CYNOX) to announce a warranty return in 2 month - I still give it a chance! Fortunately, EU-citizens got lately strong warranty laws. The time is 2 years now, not half a year as formerly. Thus, no reason to be worried as long as you don't need the 49+ for serious work. the sound-difference in closing a car door of a Citroen and a Mercedes. That's the difference... Fortunately, only very few people pay attention to superficialities, the majority of Germans still prefer French styling and taste :-) - Wolfgang ==== Has anyone tried using the HP-49G version of HP-42X on the new HP-49G+? Does it work well? (The idea of a HP-42S emulator that is 3-5 times faster than the original HP-42S seems appealing to me...) Erik Ehrling (Sweden) Homepage: http://w1.322.telia.com/~u32220482/index.html ==== I just downloaded it and it seems to be running okay. I haven't done any thorough testing yet, but I haven't seen any major issues. The header on the 49G+ remains at the top at all times, as usual. The HP42X screen fits nicely underneath this header so there aren't any display issues. I did, however, notice that when you exit the emulator with !BYE or ON-F6, the screen clouds up for a second and then clears up and returns to the stack. Nothing is lost or corrupted in the emulator or the 49G+, but it isn't pretty to watch. I'll let you know if I find anything else. Doug > > Has anyone tried using the HP-49G version of HP-42X on the new > HP-49G+? Does it work well? (The idea of a HP-42S emulator that is 3-5 > times faster than the original HP-42S seems appealing to me...) > > Erik Ehrling (Sweden) > Homepage: http://w1.322.telia.com/~u32220482/index.html ==== The version I tested in my previous post was the HP42X49E version. I just tried it with the extended version and it doesn't work. I downloaded the HP42X file to the 49G+, stored it in port 1, where it showed up fine, then did ON-C, then recieved the XQ42 file. Tried to run the emulator and the emulator screen shows for a fraction of a second, then the calculator turns off. I turned the calculator back on and I got Error: Object Not in Port. I checked port 1 and it was deleted either by the emulator or the calculator (I'm guessing the calculator). It might be wishful thinking, but it seems like the 49G+ handles critical errors more elegantly, instead of Memory Clear messages. I'll prove this point more when I start doing more programming :) Doug > I just downloaded it and it seems to be running okay. I haven't done any > thorough testing yet, but I haven't seen any major issues. The header on > the 49G+ remains at the top at all times, as usual. The HP42X screen fits > nicely underneath this header so there aren't any display issues. > > I did, however, notice that when you exit the emulator with !BYE or ON-F6, > the screen clouds up for a second and then clears up and returns to the > stack. Nothing is lost or corrupted in the emulator or the 49G+, but it > isn't pretty to watch. > > I'll let you know if I find anything else. > > Doug > > > > Has anyone tried using the HP-49G version of HP-42X on the new > HP-49G+? Does it work well? (The idea of a HP-42S emulator that is 3-5 > times faster than the original HP-42S seems appealing to me...) > > Erik Ehrling (Sweden) > Homepage: http://w1.322.telia.com/~u32220482/index.html > > ==== I am in Japan and very few information is available for HP RPN calcuulator. In HP website, http://www.hp.com/calculators/ I can not find 49G+ or any other hi-end machine except low cost model. But in customer care website,.81@ http://h20015.www2.hp.com/en/product.jhtml;jsessionid=BADVNHUO15EDDQEXGR3UOS Q?reg=&cc=us&lc=en&pagetype=hp49ggraph351775 there is 49G+!! viewpoint, they don't want to sell it positively. Probably that is the reason they terminated it once after HP-Compac merge. thanks Mizushima ==== does not reliable work on the 49+ (there are seemingly a lot of users who like this functionality :-) contrast to longhold it is written in a very (maybe too) simple way as :: %.2943_ dowait KEYINBUFF? FLUSHKEYS ; This yields TRUE or FALSE depending on whether a key is pressed at least twice in the course of ~.3_s. And this works perfect on the 49 (and the 48). Not so on the 49+. Strange, for all occurring commands, apart from a very small deviation in dowait, decompile alike on both calculators. Do you have some suggestion to solve the problem? I refer to ROM 1.22. - Wolfgang ==== > does not reliable work on the 49+ (there are seemingly a lot of users > who like this functionality :-) I solved the problem last night. The double-click has to be programmed differently on the 49 and the 49+. Hence we must live with 2 versions, Keyman for the HP49g and KeymanPlus for the Hp49g+. In KeymanPlus the double-click (ROMPTR 4B0 C) is programmed as follows: :: VERYSLOW ROMPTR 4B0 A (ASMcode providing the key-number bint of the pressed key) REPKEY? (was the same key pressed at least twice?) COLANOTcase ; This works only on the 49+. Pressing the key again is registered during the VERYSLOW slow-down interval (.3_s), but REPKEY? discovers this only in the 49+ operating system. Maybe JYA explains why :-) the double-click loss (for instance, Douglas Rohm) should replace it by KeymanPlus and perhaps report in the NG. There is no version change! - Wolfgang ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/keys/Keyman/ ==== Well, the double-click works now, but if I still double-click too fast, it doesn't register. Maybe VERYVERYSLOW is needed? Doug > In KeymanPlus the double-click (ROMPTR 4B0 C) is programmed as follows: > :: > VERYSLOW > ROMPTR 4B0 A (ASMcode providing the key-number bint of the pressed key) > REPKEY? (was the same key pressed at least twice?) > COLANOTcase > ; > This works only on the 49+. Pressing the key again is registered during > the VERYSLOW slow-down interval (.3_s), but REPKEY? discovers this only > in the 49+ operating system. Maybe JYA explains why :-) > > the double-click loss (for instance, Douglas Rohm) should replace it by > KeymanPlus and perhaps report in the NG. There is no version change! ==== I'm sorry if I'm asking something that may have been asked before, but did JYA do the ROM in the new 49G+ and also is he maintaining it? I was under the assumption that he was let go from HP when ACO was shut down. Is he contracting for HP on the new calculators? I'm only curious... Doug > does not reliable work on the 49+ (there are seemingly a lot of users > who like this functionality :-) > > contrast to longhold it is written in a very (maybe too) simple way as > > :: %.2943_ dowait KEYINBUFF? FLUSHKEYS ; > > This yields TRUE or FALSE depending on whether a key is pressed at least > twice in the course of ~.3_s. And this works perfect on the 49 (and the > 48). Not so on the 49+. Strange, for all occurring commands, apart from > a very small deviation in dowait, decompile alike on both calculators. > Do you have some suggestion to solve the problem? I refer to ROM 1.22. > > - Wolfgang ==== > I solved the problem last night. The double-click has to be programmed > differently on the 49 and the 49+. Hence we must live with 2 versions, > Keyman for the HP49g and KeymanPlus for the Hp49g+. > I think your use of must is a bit extreme. I have no doubt that if correctly programmed you could have the same version running on both calculators. You just have to make it differently in order to make it work on both machine. the use of VERYSLOW then testing the key seems extremely inefficient to me. you should use your own code that is actually testing the key while waiting, so should a key being pressed twice there's no need to wait for VERYSLOW to finish and therefore speeding up the process. ==== >... Hence we must live with 2 versions, > Keyman for the HP49g and KeymanPlus for the Hp49g+. > > I think your use of must is a bit extreme. > I have no doubt that if correctly programmed you could have the same > version running on both calculators. > You just have to make it differently in order to make it work on both > machine. Yes, this is basically possible on cost of blowing up the Keyman code AND assuming that the old 49 will soon become a new ROM identical or very similar to 1.22. I've no information on this. But that 19-6 for the 49 will be updated is a logical consequence from hacking ROM 1.22 on the 49+. Let's look at the standard assignment of keys 43.1 and 43.3 which had been permuted. For 43.1 it is :: TakeOver PTR 2F3BF NOTcase DoNewEqw ; For 43.3 it is :: TakeOver PTR 2F3BF case DoNewEqw ; One need not be a great logician to infer from this that PTR 2F3BF will play a basic role in future as it distinguishes the HP49G+ from the HP49G, hence both calcs will have (nearly) the same ROM in future. The only question is *when* this will happen. We cannot wait some indefinite time. Therefore the two distinct versions of Keyman and OT49. - Wolfgang ==== > >... Hence we must live with 2 versions, > > Keyman for the HP49g and KeymanPlus for the Hp49g+. > > > I think your use of must is a bit extreme. > I have no doubt that if correctly programmed you could have the same > version running on both calculators. > You just have to make it differently in order to make it work on both > machine. > > Yes, this is basically possible on cost of blowing up the Keyman code > AND assuming that the old 49 will soon become a new ROM identical or > very similar to 1.22. > > I've no information on this. But that 19-6 for the 49 will be updated is > a logical consequence from hacking ROM 1.22 on the 49+. Let's look at > the standard assignment of keys 43.1 and 43.3 which had been permuted. > For 43.1 it is :: TakeOver PTR 2F3BF NOTcase DoNewEqw ; > For 43.3 it is :: TakeOver PTR 2F3BF case DoNewEqw ; > > One need not be a great logician to infer from this that PTR 2F3BF will > play a basic role in future as it distinguishes the HP49G+ from the > HP49G, hence both calcs will have (nearly) the same ROM in future. The > only question is *when* this will happen. We cannot wait some indefinite > time. Therefore the two distinct versions of Keyman and OT49. > This was very good explanation! I finally got it! Keyman & OT are for ANY HP49 based calc with older ROM 1.19-6 (maybe even 1.19-5, 1.19-4?) IF it would be possible to have 1.19-6 in a hp 49g+ (and working) THEN the old versions of your programs would also work END Keyman49 & OT49 are for ANY HP49 based calc with new ROM >1.22 IF it would be possible to have 1.22 in an old HP 49G (and working) THEN the new versions of your programs should also work END Right? ==== I have succesfully updated my ROM to Ver. 1.22 and would like to try out some of the progs written for the 49G on my new machine... but somehow it doesn't work... I have installed the connectivity software that was enclosed the calc (otherwise I wouldn't have been able to update the ROM) and I can also see the contents of the calc on my comp... but when I try to copy a file that I downloaded from hpcalc.org (i.e.SOBA-49.lib) using drag-and-drop the connectivity kit displays the window showing the process of the transfer... but when the transfer obviously has finished it displays an error that dissappears before I can read it... and nothing has been transferred to the calc... can anyone help me...thanks! Martin ==== Sorry for asking before testing throughly... I tried to download a periodic table (PTv2.1) having the fraction mark set as . and had no problems... then I tried to rename the SOBA-49.LIB into SOBA49.LIB... and see... now it worked as well... unfortunately I must realise that it isn't practically possible to play the old Sokoban on the new machine... the emulator is so fast that pressing the left-arrow makes the cursor move several positions... which isn't very funny playing Sokoban...:-) Martin > I have succesfully updated my ROM to Ver. 1.22 and would like to try out > some of the progs written for the 49G on my new machine... but somehow it > doesn't work... I have installed the connectivity software that was enclosed > the calc (otherwise I wouldn't have been able to update the ROM) and I can > also see the contents of the calc on my comp... but when I try to copy a > file that I downloaded from hpcalc.org (i.e.SOBA-49.lib) using drag-and-drop > the connectivity kit displays the window showing the process of the > transfer... but when the transfer obviously has finished it displays an > error that dissappears before I can read it... and nothing has been > transferred to the calc... can anyone help me...thanks! > Martin > > ==== > Sorry for asking before testing throughly... I tried to download a periodic > table (PTv2.1) having the fraction mark set as . and had no problems... > then I tried to rename the SOBA-49.LIB into SOBA49.LIB... and see... now it > worked as well... unfortunately I must realise that it isn't practically > possible to play the old Sokoban on the new machine... the emulator is so > fast that pressing the left-arrow makes the cursor move several > positions... which isn't very funny playing Sokoban...:-) > Martin The new super-fast 48GII and the hyper-fast 49G+ need a slowdown mode I suggest again [ON] &[Down-Arrow] to show a message in status area 75MHz => 48MHz to make the 49g+ compatible with the 48GII and another press of [ON]&[DA] would say: 48MHz => 30MHz giving the 49g+ an approximate speedwise compatibility witht the old 49G Yet another [ON]&[DA] would say: 30MHz => 75MHz and We are back in warp speed, Zulu! ==== Here's a questions from someone who is not very technical when it comes to electronics (forgive me, I'm just a Civil Engineer who is still using a 28s but I'm looking forward to upgrading)...Assuming that I will have to update my ROM to Ver. 1.22 when the 49g+ becomes available here in the US (or will hp update the ROM on all new calcs from now on to correct the battery problem?), what happens when/if my batteries finally go dead and I lose all the memory in calculator? everytime this happens? ==== In infinite wisdom JohnW answered: > Here's a questions from someone who is not very technical when it > comes to electronics (forgive me, I'm just a Civil Engineer who is > still using a 28s but I'm looking forward to upgrading)...Assuming > that I will have to update my ROM to Ver. 1.22 when the 49g+ becomes > available here in the US (or will hp update the ROM on all new calcs > from now on to correct the battery problem?), what happens when/if my > batteries finally go dead and I lose all the memory in calculator? I believe that there's a lithium 2023 button cell that retains memory contents. As long as this does not go dead your memory will be fine. > everytime this happens? No, it's written to flash memory, which is non-volatile, it does not need power to retain it's contents. In fact, there is 800k of flash ram for user storage that should not go away when the batteries die. Rich ==== In message , Veli-Pekka >say: 30MHz => 75MHz and We are back in warp speed, Zulu! >what happens when/if my > batteries finally go dead and I lose all the memory in calculator? > everytime this happens? No, thankfully. The ROM doesn't need power to store its contents - you are thinking of RAM. You shouldn't lose RAM either, because there is a lithium backup battery built in as well. cheers, Al ==== > Here's a questions from someone who is not very technical when it > comes to electronics (forgive me, I'm just a Civil Engineer who is > still using a 28s but I'm looking forward to upgrading)...Assuming > that I will have to update my ROM to Ver. 1.22 when the 49g+ becomes > available here in the US (or will hp update the ROM on all new calcs > from now on to correct the battery problem?), what happens when/if my > batteries finally go dead and I lose all the memory in calculator? > everytime this happens? no, the ROM firmware will be saved in the flash ROM and will not be sensitive to lost of power. ==== a few minutes ago, I was in a store here in Aachen/Germany looking for the new 49g+ to buy. They had two machines, both with the same problem. The Z key was not always registering while typing fast. So I did not buy one. I still have a 48sx, so I can wait till the store has a 49g+ with a fully working keyboard. If someone from HP is reading this: I have no problem paying e.g. $50 more, if the calc has a keyboard as good as my 48sx. That one was twice as expensive, and again I am willing to pay a similar amount of money, if it has the same quality. So what about a 'deluxe' version for people willing to pay for it? in shops. I can understand that students do not have that much money, but many engineers do have it. BTW, the keyboard didn't feel like plastic as advertised, it was more like rubber keys. But I never touched a 49g, so maybe those keys were 'extra soft' rubber keys. Robert ==== I think that's the best attitude to have. As much as I would like to try out the new 49G+, I will wait until it appears at large U.S. retailers. Then I will buy one, and if it has even the slightest hint of keyboard trouble, I will return it. Maybe I will have to go through five or six calculators to get a good one. If everyone did this, the rejects would pile up at HP and they would learn how to do business in the 21st century. Perhaps they should go back to signal generators only for awhile until they relearn what it means to make a quality product. ;) > > a few minutes ago, I was in a store here in Aachen/Germany looking for the new > 49g+ to buy. They had two machines, both with the same problem. The Z key > was not always registering while typing fast. So I did not buy one. I still have > a 48sx, so I can wait till the store has a 49g+ with a fully working keyboard. ==== > a few minutes ago, I was in a store here in Aachen/Germany looking for > the new 49g+ to buy. They had two machines, both with the same > problem. The Z key was not always registering while typing fast. So I > did not buy one. I still have a 48sx, so I can wait till the store has > a 49g+ with a fully working keyboard. > > If someone from HP is reading this: I have no problem paying e.g. $50 > more, if the calc has a keyboard as good as my 48sx. That one was > twice as expensive, and again I am willing to pay a similar amount of > money, if it has the same quality. The problem with the 49G+ keyboard seems not to be a matter of making the keyboard too cheap (they recognize that this was a problem on the original 49G), but rather that they have had problems engineering it to be reliable because they no longer have the keyboard design expertise they had back in the Good Old Days. It's been said that they are working on the problem. > So what about a 'deluxe' version for people willing to pay for it? It > it in shops. I can understand that students do not have that much > money, but many engineers do have it. If they get it fixed, they'll do it on the standard 49G+ model, not on a special high-priced model. Of course, I don't work for HP and don't speak for them (nor they for me). ==== I don쳓 know what's going on in HP........... I want to buy a new HP49g+, but this problem with the keyboard ...... I'm very dissapointed,i was waiting for this machine and now come with this problem. I'm not going to buy this calculator until HP repair this problem. ==== Regardind these ng comments, many improvements were made to this new 49G+ (congratulations to the team for that), but although I'm eager to get it, I'm afraid I won't reward them with my purchase until this keyboard issue is solved (along with the proper contents, full printed manuals, CD's, case, ...) Robert declares he is willing to get a deluxe version. I think there should be only one, and it should be deluxe. We could talk about quality, but I don't believe it's necessary in this ng once more. and to change the actual ongoing design process and line production for good) -- Carlos Lacroze Buenos Aires, Argentina > I don쳓 know what's going on in HP........... I want to buy a new > HP49g+, but this problem with the keyboard ...... I'm very > dissapointed,i was waiting for this machine and now come with this > problem. I'm not going to buy this calculator until HP repair this > problem. ==== > I think that's the best attitude to have. As much as I would like to try > out the new 49G+, I will wait until it appears at large U.S. retailers. > Then I will buy one, and if it has even the slightest hint of keyboard > trouble, I will return it. Maybe I will have to go through five or six > calculators to get a good one. If everyone did this, the rejects would pile > up at HP and they would learn how to do business in the 21st century. My plan too. Let's do it! Rick ==== > The problem with the 49G+ keyboard seems not to be a matter of making > the keyboard too cheap (they recognize that this was a problem on the > original 49G), That was definitely not a cost question when the decision had been made to use the 49G keyboard. In fact it's using some of the most expensive dome-sheet available on the market. The main problem is how the whole project had been run. Machine had to be delivered by a specific date. Only this keyboard could be manufactured in time. Then when everything else started to be really late the question was raised about using a different keyboard. It was estimated that it would take 3 months to create a different keyboard. Engineering team got told: too long don't do it. At the end of the project, there had been plenty of time to design a new keyboard if it had been decided to at least work on a different approach from start and then roll-over to the new keyboard. But you can guess how things worked back then ==== >At the end of the project, there had been plenty of time to design a >new keyboard if it had been decided to at least work on a different >approach from start and then roll-over to the new keyboard. Straight out of Brooks' Mythical Man Month. :-) -- Bruce Horrocks Surrey England ==== This information I just came across reading some cross-referenced news Livermore National Laboratory, often referred to as the Father of the H-Bomb and a lifelong advocate for education, died Tuesday, September 9, suffered a stroke a few days earlier. Richard Garner rgarner@vidnet.net ==== > This information I just came across reading some cross-referenced news > > Livermore National Laboratory, often referred to as the Father of the > H-Bomb and a lifelong advocate for education, died Tuesday, September 9, > > suffered a stroke a few days earlier. > > Richard Garner > rgarner@vidnet.net > > He was also a life-long advocate of the 'nuclear-deterrent'. 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty (ABM), paving the way for the development of a Star Wars-type anti-missile defense. Dave ==== > This information I just came across reading some cross-referenced news > > Livermore National Laboratory, often referred to as the Father of the > H-Bomb and a lifelong advocate for education, died Tuesday, September > > had suffered a stroke a few days earlier. > > Richard Garner > rgarner@vidnet.net I was invited to his home in 1973 as a high school senior competing for a math/science scholarship. He asked the resistance across 1 resistor in an infinite square grid of 1 ohm resistors puzzle and I choked. Missed the scholarship, but never forgot the encounter. Sorry to hear he passed away. Rick ==== > He asked the resistance across 1 resistor > in an infinite square grid of 1 ohm resistors puzzle and I choked. For those interested in this puzzle, have a look at this interesting PDF document: http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/cond-mat/pdf/0107/0107362.pdf ==== Sorry for the kinda silly post, but I saw this cheapo graphing calculator ($69) at my local drug store today, and thought it looked quite a bit like the HP-30S. http://my.datexx.com/consumer/productinfo.html?p=DS-883 The hard cover that comes with it looked to be especially similar to recent HP calculators... also much like the HP-30S. I know HP isn't doing its own design anymore... Could they share hardware -Jerrod H ==== I have made a quick new release of Emacs (version 1.12) The only change is that Emacs now uses the same mechanism as the latest Keyman to customize the long-hold time (I copied the corresponding code from Keyman to ensure compatibility - hope you agree, Wolfgang...). You need to create a global variable 'lht' which contains a real or zint. Typical value for the HP49G+ should be about 900. For HP49G users, there is no need to upgrade (but the new version will also work on the HP49G. For the time being, the library is available here: http://zon.science.uva.nl/~dominik/hpcalc/emacs/emacs112.zip - Carsten ==== Just to chime in - I have the exact problem others described. License screen flashes and disappears. Using Dell Axium w/ XScale processor. ==== I try to launch it, I get a splash screen, then the program seems to terminate. I tried uninstall/reinstall with the same results. Anyone else have/notice this problem? Mitch ==== >I try to launch it, I get a splash screen, then the program seems to >terminate. I tried uninstall/reinstall with the same results. > >Anyone else have/notice this problem? > >Mitch > Pete M. Wilson Gamewood, Inc. wilsonpm@gamewood.net ==== because aygshell.dll has been removed. PPC 2002 and below still have this dll in the OS. I know that Emu48CE uses this dll. Here's one place I found aygshell and a related one named doclist.dll : http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-Cupertino/2039/dummydll.lzh . Just copy the two dll's (iPAQ uses the ARM version of course) into the Windows folder of your pocketpc and try running Emu48CE again. (If you're wary of the above files, just search aygshell on Google and you should be able to find a couple of other sources). Incidentally, aygshell was added back to the latest .NET 4.2, but I don't think any new PPC's are running it yet. I could be way out in left field on this one, but I think it's worth a shot. ==== >Here's one place I found >aygshell and a related one named doclist.dll : >http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-Cupertino/2039/dummydll.lzh . Just >copy the two dll's (iPAQ uses the ARM version of course) into the Windows >folder of your pocketpc and try running Emu48CE again. files when I try to copy them to the Windows folder. Pete M. Wilson Gamewood, Inc. wilsonpm@gamewood.net ==== Ditto. I have these two files already, and their modification date is a year newer. Is there some reason the older files will do the trick? Mitch > >Here's one place I found >aygshell and a related one named doclist.dll : >http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-Cupertino/2039/dummydll.lzh . Just >copy the two dll's (iPAQ uses the ARM version of course) into the Windows >folder of your pocketpc and try running Emu48CE again. > > files when I try to copy them to the Windows folder. > > > Pete M. Wilson > Gamewood, Inc. > wilsonpm@gamewood.net ==== Rapha.91l Massot has successfully ported his '48 emulator for Epoc to the SonyEricsson P800. Runs very well, even though it's still work in progress. You need to download the rom image separately and you also need a file manager from Symbian to install the rom. At last I have my 48 in true pocket format! http://psiomas.free.fr/emu48e_en.html /Lennart ++ ! Lennart B.9arjeson ! Partner, Developer ! Cinnober Financial Technology AB ! Industrigatan 2A ! S-112 46 �STOCKHOLM ! Sverige/Sweden/Schweden/Su.8fde ! phone:+46-8-50304700 ! fax:+46-8-50304701 ! http://www_dot_cinnober_dot_com !-- ==== Does any 49G+ emulator is available or not yet ? --Julien Meyer ==== Where can I get a complete list of entry points for the 38g? I mean all the entry points and no just the supported ones( since there is only one version of the 38g there really shouldn't be any unsupported ones). -- Wing Wong. Webpage: http://wing.ucc.asn.au ==== I have started work on an equation lib for the 39G. However, I need to be able to put equations into solve aplet. I also need to be able to view the equations as you can when you press 'View' in the function aplet etc. How can I do this from SysRPL??? Also, are there any copyright problems using the pics/eqs from the 48G+ EQ Lib? Brett M. ==== > However, I need to be able to put equations into solve aplet. No time for a worked example, but I've already posted the necessary info. This posting explains how to call views from the current or other aplets: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=7fcf10a1.0307300949.3cc27296%40posting. google.com And this one describes a way to find out where (LastButx) the Solve aplet stores the equation list: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=7fcf10a1.0302121114.3ef9e31f%40posting. google.com Jordi ==== Expander on Ebay. Starting bid, $300. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3052751664&category=50577 ==== I hope it's not yours.... several have been pulled from eBay, at the request of HP I believe. I don't think any have been successfully sold. BTW, here's another, with a buy it now of $430, starting $300. Yours has a buy it now of $500. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3053119002&category=50577 > > Expander on Ebay. > > Starting bid, $300. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3052751664&category=50577 > ==== > I hope it's not yours.... several have been pulled from eBay, at the request > of HP I believe. I don't think any have been successfully sold. On what grounds does HP use to get the adds pulled? Al.. ==== > On what grounds does HP use to get the adds pulled? The Expanders which were finished remain the property of HP and are considered stolen since the people who worked on them had no authorization to take them out of the HP labs? Tom Lake ==== > The Expanders which were finished remain the property of HP and are > considered stolen since the people who worked on them had no authorization > to take them out of the HP labs? As I understand it, HP gave out a fair number of Xpanders to teachers. There should be no problem with sales of those. ==== > As I understand it, HP gave out a fair number of Xpanders to teachers. > There should be no problem with sales of those. Actually, all the calculator given away by HP to teachers, students and other beta testers were clearly marked: Non Commercial prototype, not for resell... (or any such similar marking)... so, reselling them is not an option... ==== az_dude replied: > I hope it's not yours.... Naaa. I just decided to check EBAY that day and saw it. > several have been pulled from eBay, at the request > of HP I believe. I don't think any have been successfully sold. I recall one. > BTW, here's another, with a buy it now of $430, starting $300. Yours has a > buy it now of $500. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3053119002&category=50577 I have nothing for sale on EBay, never have. Just though it worth noting. Rich > >>Expander on Ebay. >> >>Starting bid, $300. >> >> > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3052751664&category=50577 > > > ==== > > As I understand it, HP gave out a fair number of Xpanders to teachers. > There should be no problem with sales of those. > > Actually, all the calculator given away by HP to teachers, students and > other beta testers were clearly marked: Non Commercial prototype, not for > resell... (or any such similar marking)... so, reselling them is not an > option... > 'not for resell' does not mean that it can't be resold. Unless it is still the property of HP, it doesn't matter how its marked. ==== Well, I know for a fact that Xpanders have sold successfully. There was one discussed on MoHPC a few months back. > I hope it's not yours.... several have been pulled from eBay, at the request > of HP I believe. I don't think any have been successfully sold. > > BTW, here's another, with a buy it now of $430, starting $300. Yours has a > buy it now of $500. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3053119002&category=50577 > > > > Expander on Ebay. > > Starting bid, $300. > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3052751664&category=50577 > > > ==== Wolfgang, I was wondering since you seem to be doing development on the 49G+, can you use the same extable2 for the 49G on the 49G+? I've noticed you mentioned that emacs doesn't work on the 49G+, is this still true? If not, what programs or editors are you using to do development on the 49G+? Have you tried using Debug4x with the 49G+? Is it possible? Any problems? Douglas Rohm drohm@bellsouth.net ==== Wolfgang, I was wondering since you seem to be doing development on the 49G+, can you use the same extable2 for the 49G on the 49G+? I've noticed you mentioned that emacs doesn't work on the 49G+, is this still true? If not, what programs or editors are you using to do development on the 49G+? Have you tried using Debug4x with the 49G+? Is it possible? Any problems? Also, I'm posting this again (from a different ISP) since my original post didn't show up. I apologize in advance if it gets posted twice. Douglas Rohm drohm@bellsouth.net ==== > Wolfgang, > I was wondering since you seem to be doing development on the 49G+, can you > use the same extable2 for the 49G on the 49G+? I've noticed you mentioned > that emacs doesn't work on the 49G+, is this still true? If not, what > programs or editors are you using to do development on the 49G+? Your question may be of general interest for advanced programmers who like programming in an armchair on the calculator itself :-) Thomas Rast's extable2 works fine. I guess almost all entries are valid also on the HP49g+. An exception is RunInNewContext. This basic pointer is definitely unstable and did move. A fatal mistake of Carsten in his huge entry-point documentation (NOTE: It's a miracle that Carsten made only very few mistakes in his immense work of listing several thousands of entries :-). Carsten's use of this pointer and of a Keyman rompointer in Emacs for longhold are the main causes that Emacs does not run on the 49+. A provisorial fixing is by replacing the Emacs ROMPTR 6FE 3F by :: ROMPTR 4B0 8 FALSE TRUE ; Here ROMPTR 4B0 8 is from the latest edition of Keyman from my site with 1000 in lht (a reserved global allowing a change of the longhold time). This clearly needs familiarity with splitting a library etc). An easier way is to write programs for the 49+ on the 49 and transfer them with most important option RPLCPL still works, also OBSEL and some others. Debug4x should work but I never tried it because I've difficulties with Franglais :-). Does it contain also such ueful commands as OBSEL ? - Wolfgang PS. I admit that I underestimated the future role of emulating the 48/49 been realized that the only way of saving 20 engineer years of software development for the future is by emulation. Actually, this emulation is only a partial. Criticial parts of original rom, e.g. the programs-keys interaction are rewritten in ARM code. At least the old Debug4 gives no access to this part of code. But this is perhaps not really important since, e.g. pure SysRPL loops, run even 10 times faster in the 49+. That is, many parts in third party tools or games written in unreadable asm code for speed reason may now be done in SysRPL. ==== > Thomas Rast's extable2 works fine. I guess almost all entries are > valid also on the HP49g+. An exception is RunInNewContext. This basic > pointer is definitely unstable and did move. This is my mistake. I did refer RunInNewConext as stable. It is located in an area that is subject to move ; therefore keeping it at a fix address is quite a pain. So, unfortunately it moved in ROM 1.20. It's back where it should be in ROM 1.22 ==== > Thomas Rast's extable2 works fine. I guess almost all entries are > valid also on the HP49g+. An exception is RunInNewContext. This basic > pointer is definitely unstable and did move. > > This is my mistake. > I did refer RunInNewConext as stable. It is located in an area that is > subject to move ; therefore keeping it at a fix address is quite a pain. > So, unfortunately it moved in ROM 1.20. It's back where it should be in > ROM 1.22 Yes, I confirm this. I was just able to load ROM 1.22 from my SDcard. This was reformated this night by our webmaster on his SuperPC at home because in Berlin you can by only SDcards formated FAT32. It is not clearly said in the new connectivity docu that you must load ROM 1.22 on PC which has a SDcard slot if applying the SDcard upgrade method. Now also the interaction Emacs-Nosy and the BZ-compressor returned to life. Thus, the only you have to do to make Emacs running is to load the latest Keyman and to replace ROMPTR 6FE 3F as described in a previous In this very moment I'm happy. Our work over the past years was not in vain. We now have a clear perspective and I can only encourage young people to learn this beautyful and powerful SysRPL language. Clearly, SysRPL will be somewhat enlarged to manage the various new hardware platforms, in particular the HP49g+. - Wolfgang ==== X > So, unfortunately it moved in ROM 1.20. It's back where it should be in > ROM 1.22 > > Yes, I confirm this. I was just able to load ROM 1.22 from my SDcard. X > Now also the interaction Emacs-Nosy and the BZ-compressor returned to > life. Thus, the only you have to do to make Emacs running is to load the > latest Keyman and to replace ROMPTR 6FE 3F as described in a previous > > In this very moment I'm happy. Our work over the past years was not in > vain. We now have a clear perspective and I can only encourage young > people to learn this beautyful and powerful SysRPL language. Clearly, > SysRPL will be somewhat enlarged to manage the various new hardware > platforms, in particular the HP49g+. X Now all we need is a HP support (or permission to JYA) for simultaneous publishing of ROMs for EMU48, HP49G, 49G+ and a possible EMU49+ ==== In message <3F6700F2.E645D57F@math.fu-berlin.de>, Wolfgang Rautenberg >Clearly, SysRPL will be somewhat enlarged to manage the various new >hardware platforms, in particular the HP49g+. Yes. A hook into ARM machine code would be excellent. Anyone fancy writing a MkII meta-kernel in ARM? -- Bruce Horrocks Surrey England ==== http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3051745552 ==== After following the instructions HP has posted on their web site, I was successful in downloading the version 1.22 rom file. However, when I attempted to run this file (which unpacks other files) it refused to run the new file CONN4X.EXE. I downloaded a fresh copy of the file on HP's web site, but it worked exactly the same way. Can anyone help me out? Oh, yes, PC is HP Pavilion 9870. Jim Chumbley ==== How are you ?. Please, download the software from next address and try again to install. ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software2/COL4344/ca-14082-1/sp00001.exe Miguel Angel CAPORALINI HERK (M.A.C.H.) **************************************************************************** **** > After following the instructions HP has posted on their web site, I was > successful in downloading the version 1.22 rom file. However, when I > attempted to run this file (which unpacks other files) it refused to run the > new file CONN4X.EXE. > I downloaded a fresh copy of the file on HP's web site, but it worked > exactly the same way. Can anyone help me out? > Oh, yes, PC is HP Pavilion 9870. > Jim Chumbley ==== > After following the instructions HP has posted on their web site, I was >successful in downloading the version 1.22 rom file. However, when I >attempted to run this file (which unpacks other files) it refused to run the >new file CONN4X.EXE. You can use Conn4x (btw, this is the new HP connectivity Kit, you have to install it first from the CD) for manually downloading a new flash rom to your calc. Simply start Conn4x and select frem menu ROM Download Calculator ROM. HTH, Mathias -- Mathias Habel mathias.habel_no-spam_@t-online.de Remove _no-spam_ before replying ==== Does anyone know where or how to get a system 9.2.2 CD. Apple does not seem to offer them any more. ==== > Does anyone know where or how to get a system 9.2.2 CD. Apple does > not seem to offer them any more. Try on Ebay: http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?query=9.2&from=R10&catref=C3&sacate gory=3792 ==== > Does anyone know where or how to get a system 9.2.2 CD. Apple does > not seem to offer them any more. If you have bought MacOS X a little while ago, MacOS 9 is on it. It's quite easy with Roxio CD Creator to create a boot CD and copy the MacOS 9 file on it ==== Stolen and reposted from a more recent posting here: This package contains a new version of the HP49G+ ROM (1.22). This version corrects a couple of bugs, most noticeably reduces significantly the power consumption in OFF mode, increasing dramatically the battery life. http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/SoftwareDescription.jsp?loc ale=en_US&lang=English+%28US%29&pnameOID=351776&prodSeriesId=33568&prodTypeId =215348&basePartNum=COL4392&locBasepartNum=ca-14639-2&os=Microsoft+Windows+95 &tech=Firmware azdude > After an upgrade of hp49G+쳒 ROM, > it drained the batteries very fast, in the next day I replaced the old > panasonic batteries (1.07 V each, with 3.21 Volt the HP49G+ calc > didn't turn ON) for new energizer batteries (1.59 V each) the HP49G+ > calc quickly turned ON. > Then I put the old batteries in HP49G calc and it turned ON without > problems. > The new batteries in the HP49G+ only worked for about 10 hours, and I > decided to > measure the current that consume each: > > HP49G HP49G+ (G+ - G)/(G)*100% > > Turned ON 7.32mA 10.65mA 45.49% > Turned ON and [ON] pressed 16.12mA 88.80mA 450.86% > > Turned OFF 0.088mA 11.08mA 12490.90% > > The last column shows (in percentage) the amount of current that the > hp49G+ consume more than hp49G . > > What is wrong? The hardware or the new O.S.? I do not believe that the > measures ;) > PLEASE, if you have hp49G+ with O.S. 1.20, take the measures to > > JoGa ==== > Stolen and reposted from a more recent posting here: > > This package contains a new version of the HP49G+ ROM (1.22). This version > corrects a couple of bugs, most noticeably reduces significantly the power > consumption in OFF mode, increasing dramatically the battery life. > > http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/SoftwareDescription.jsp?loca le=en_US&lang=English+%28US%29&pnameOID=351776&prodSeriesId=33568&prodTypeId= 215348&basePartNum=COL4392&locBasepartNum=ca-14639-2&os=Microsoft+Windows+95& tech=Firmware > > azdude > > > > >>After an upgrade of hp49G+쳒 ROM, >>it drained the batteries very fast, in the next day I replaced the old >>panasonic batteries (1.07 V each, with 3.21 Volt the HP49G+ calc >>didn't turn ON) for new energizer batteries (1.59 V each) the HP49G+ >>calc quickly turned ON. >>Then I put the old batteries in HP49G calc and it turned ON without >>problems. >>The new batteries in the HP49G+ only worked for about 10 hours, and I >>decided to >>measure the current that consume each: >> >>HP49G HP49G+ (G+ - G)/(G)*100% >> >>Turned ON 7.32mA 10.65mA 45.49% >>Turned ON and [ON] pressed 16.12mA 88.80mA 450.86% >> >>Turned OFF 0.088mA 11.08mA 12490.90% >> >>The last column shows (in percentage) the amount of current that the >>hp49G+ consume more than hp49G . >> >>What is wrong? The hardware or the new O.S.? I do not believe that the >>measures ;) >>PLEASE, if you have hp49G+ with O.S. 1.20, take the measures to >> >>JoGa > > > When I downloaded it and ran it, I got a message saying that my computer (win hp home) could not run conn4x.exe. However, the files hp49g22.bin (1,264kb), readme_update_1_22.txt (4kb), and update.scp (1 kb) were in the destination directory. Here is the readme file: This package contains a new version of the HP49G+ Rom (1.22). This version corrects a couple of bugs, most noticeably reduces significantly the power consumption in OFF mode, increasing dramatically the battery life. Note: In order to upgrade your calculator, you must have the HP49G+ Connectivity kit and the HP49G+ USB drivers installed on your PC, or a Secure Digital card reader and a secure Digital card formatted using the FAT file system (not FAT32). To install the new ROM: 1. Download the package from the Hewlett-Packard web site 2. Install the package by running the program 3. Note the directory in which you install the files (the default directory is the same directory than the HP49G+ connectivity kit) 4. By default, the connectivity kit should be started at the end of the installation process 5. Ensure that you have good battery in the calculator There are 2 solutions to install the ROM: 1) Using the HP49G+ connectivity kit 2) Using a Secure digital card 1) Using the HP49G+ connectivity kit 1. The connectivity kit should have been started at the end of the installation process for the HP49+ Rom Update package. If not, start it. Please note that the connectivity kit and the drivers must have been installed. 2. Select HPx9G+ in the �Connect using� combo box in the connectivity kit, if this option is not available, turn on your calculator, unplug and replug the USB cable and try to select the HPx9G+ option, if still not available, ensure that all connections are OK and that the drivers are correctly installed. 3. In the ROM menu, select �Download Calculator ROM� 4. On the calculator, Press and hold the + and [CapitalEth] Button and press on the RESET button using a paper clip or other blunt object 5. Release the RESET button, wait 2 second and release the + and [CapitalEth] keys. Your calculator screen should display the update and self test menu. 6. Press on 1 (Update ROM CODE) 7. Unplug and replug the USB cable 8. Press on 1 (Update from USB) 9. on the connectivity kit, validate the dialog box (press OK or Enter) and select the file: hp49g22.bin that should be located in the %programfile%hewlett-packardconn4x directory (if not, consult your note from point 3 of the installation process to find the directory) and validate. 10. A download dialog box should appear monitoring the download process. This should take around 1 minute 11. When the download is finish (the calculator displays: �Update Finish, waiting for reset�), press the reset button, your calculator has been upgraded. 2) Using a SD card 1. Copy the files: hp49g22.bin and update.scp that should be located in the %programfile%hewlett-packardconn4x directory (if not, consult your note from point 3 of the installation process to find the directory) on a SD card formatted in using the FAT format. 2. On the calculator, Press and hold the + and [CapitalEth] Button and press on the RESET button using a paper clip or other blunt object 3. Release the RESET button, wait 2 second and release the + and [CapitalEth] keys. Your calculator screen should display the update and self test menu. 4. Insert the SD card (upside down) in the clacualtor 5. Press on 1 (Update ROM CODE) 6. Press on 2 (Update from SD CARD) 7. The calculator should start updating the ROM (you will see flashing messages telling you about the update process). This should take around 1 minute 8. When the upgrade is finish (the calculator displays: �Update Finish, waiting for reset�), press the reset button, your calculator has been upgraded. Since I do not (yet) have a 49g+, I can't do this. I do not see the connectivity program. Martin Cohen ==== > Since I do not (yet) have a 49g+, I can't do this. > > I do not see the connectivity program. You need the connectivity program to upload the ROM. It's in the box if you buy a 49G+... -- Thomas Deniau Unix is user friendly. It's just selective when choosing friends. ==== > I do not see the connectivity program. It's at http://h20015.www2.hp.com/en/softwareDownloadIndex.jhtml?reg=&cc=us&softitem =ca-14082-1&prodId=hp49ggraph351775&lc=en&sw_lang=en&pagetype=software (Mind the line break!) Tom Lake ==== >>I do not see the connectivity program. > > > > It's at > > http://h20015.www2.hp.com/en/softwareDownloadIndex.jhtml?reg=&cc=us&softitem= ca-14082-1&prodId=hp49ggraph351775&lc=en&sw_lang=en&pagetype=software > > (Mind the line break!) > > Tom Lake > > Martin Cohen ==== X >Luckily, Jonathan's solution (combine with Werner's tricks) gave me some >ideas and I gave it a try. >It now works very well without much slow down. >Normal operations are only 0.2% slower >Operations involving list processing like: >1 1000 FOR I I { 1 2 3 4 5 } DISP NEXT >is only 10.3% slower ; and obviously this is not used too often. >In my experience you use more list processing manually on the stack rather >than in a program. So the slow down won't be noticeable. > X Comment to the above: Excellent job all together! WH, JYA, JB (in reversed polish order) are all geniuses! **************************** There is another Sith Lord bugging around... FIRST: Change to Exact mode! 65536 9999 @ as many times as needed MOD => 5542 IQUOT => 6 @ step by step available, turn off IREMAINDER => 5542 @ step by step available, turn off IDIV2 => 6 5542 @ step by step available, turn off LCM => 655294464 GCD => 1 @ step by step available, turn off 2 ->LIST LGCD => {65536 9999} 1 Everything OK this far! 65536 ------- 9999 FLOOR => 6 CEIL => 7 IP => 6. @ 1 * BUG * As Mad as Darth Maul !!! < actually, if this is the current state of the 49 Math, it's approximately [but not excatly] flawless> Even RE and IM give integer answers! Also AND, OR, XOR, NOT work perfectly on integers. >, <, >=, <=, ==, #, work exactly alright, but not the same (what a shame) with SAME @ 2 Maybe the quontient should give 7 (without the dot) even when you apply 0 RND @ 3 Actually, not only am I bothered with this IP cosmetic bug. BUT I want every single command possible to return integers in Exact Mode in order that mode to be consistent. AND in Approx. to return reals, respectively. Examples: PUTI, GETI, POS, LIST->, ARRY->, OBJ->, @ 4 [ 3 4] V-> @ 5A Flag -19 Clear (Arrays, not complex): 3 4 ->V2 ; 3 4 12 ->V3 @ 5B Somewhat different: (3.,4.) C->R @ 5C What do you, other users, think about @ 1, @ 2, @ 3, @4, @ 5 ? Veli-Pekka PS. I may have missed some cases... ==== X> even when you apply 0 RND @ 3 I knew I would forget something: 0 TRNC ==== On my old 28s there was the very useful (but quite difficult to use) FORM menu which allowed you to swap the order of terms in an expression, distribute and associate terms etc. Did this functionality disappear in the 48 & 49 series? Dave ==== > On my old 28s there was the very useful (but quite difficult to use) FORM > menu which allowed you to swap the order of terms in an expression, > distribute and associate terms etc. > > Did this functionality disappear in the 48 & 49 series? You still have RULES in the Equation Writer in a HP 48G series In the 49G you have to either program your own custom menu or used the new CAS commands from their menus but the RULES are gone except for the most simplest things like blue shidt right arrow can swap items DISTRIB and FDISTRIB commands are used now. You have many new commands to work on your formulas using Try it by downloading am emulator & ROM: search: www.hpcalc.org ==== FOR AUCTION: HP 48GX 1MB RAM CARD This card only works in the 48GX calculator. It is in perfect condition and works great! Genuine HP quality. This is the one you've been waiting for!!! You can find the auction listed at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3047622982&category=20335 Greg Rose ==== Is there a function in HP 49 G that computes the continuous fourier transform of a continuous function f(t) (I mean the transform F(w)=int(f(t)exp(-jwt),-inf,+inf)) ==== Just pondering about the recent news on HP49G+ and the other calcs. If HP have revamped the calc line and Ive enjoyed reading all the thoughts and facts on the HP49 family etc, I wanted to conjecture on what HP are up to. I know the HPCC conference had an NDA about whatever they talked about. But if I was in HPs shoes and given the known facts, this is what I would be planning: 1. Given that a Saturn emulator was done for ARM and results are good enough in speed terms to get a product to market, they must have decided to hold back on the Rolls Royce product to get something out the door: voila HP49G+. A little bit more than the HP49. 2. So what next? Well that screen is rather pathetic (in pixel size). They must be planning something better, but this would have made the port to ARM too tricky. So I conjecture that a bigger res screen is in the works. Maybe 6 months from now, maybe 12. Who knows? 3. The HP48 had a Wow! factor bigger than a fat ladies-or-mans bottom. A higher res screen would not have such a Wow! factor. So why not have a color screen. Heck! PDA 320x240 color screens must cost pennies (cents). So why not a PDA with such a screen? Of course imagine all the internal code rework to achieve color graphics...so get the mono-port out the door and then sooner or later release full color. They have no competition if they do that (except for dressed up PDAs with calc emulators but they dont count). 4. What other things could they innovate on? Well screen for one as mentioned above. RAM/ROM? Maybe. They could go to 16MB of internal memory but I am not sure this is a Wow! Even with 1MB and the way we all use the calc, its difficult to fill it up. If one could play videos or MP3 in it then maybe 16MB (or 128MB) and maybe some PDA style sw. (I would hope that whatever they do is Wow! Their date management functions leave all competitors behind; no PDA has the date functionality of an HP48). 5. 'Screen savers'? Seen the PDA/Palm watch? Seen the new proposed Suunto watches (Microsoft whatever the platform is for watches). Well changeable watch faces? Your calc comes out of the box with decent date/alarm/watch faces. (Something we could write ourselves, but having this calculator++ which out of the box is desirable because of its builtin Wow-iness). Maybe other ideas which are reasonable (unlike all our fantasy wishlists)... ideas? Suggestions? It seems so logical that once the port to ARM is started there are zillions of features they could add but they would need to get the base model out the door and then let us all upgrade again (just like the HP48SX -> GX of years ago). Hopefully the 49G++ is the start of an envy-cycle all over again! Lets face it 2/3+GHz Pentia/G5 are getting so boring.... ==== > Just pondering about the recent news on HP49G+ and the other calcs. > But if I was in HPs shoes and given the known facts, this is what I > would > be planning: > 2. So what next? Well that screen is rather pathetic (in pixel size). > They must be planning something better, but this would have made the > port to ARM too tricky. So I conjecture that a bigger res screen is in > the works. Maybe 6 months from now, maybe 12. Who knows? I think that this would be good for readability, and for graphing multiple functions on-top of each other. I agree that a sharper screen would be nice. Also, it would make the HP calculator look better when placed next to the nice screen of the TI-89. > 3. The HP48 had a Wow! factor bigger than a fat ladies-or-mans bottom. > A higher res screen would not have such a Wow! factor. So why not have > a color screen. Heck! PDA 320x240 color screens must cost pennies > (cents). So why not a PDA with such a screen? Of course imagine all > the internal code rework to achieve color graphics...so get the > mono-port out the door and then sooner or later release full color. > They have no competition if they do that (except for dressed up PDAs > with calc emulators but they dont count). But, WHY? Other than sucking the batteries like soup through a Hoover, what would be the reason for having a color screen? Unless you want to play games on the thing, I don't understand! And they aren't *that* cheap. Having a PDA- style color screen is a pointless fantasy. I don't want one on my calculator! > 4. What other things could they innovate on? Well screen for one as > mentioned above. RAM/ROM? Maybe. They could go to 16MB of internal > memory but I am not sure this is a Wow! Even with 1MB and the way we > all use the calc, its difficult to fill it up. If one could play > videos or MP3 in it then maybe 16MB (or 128MB) and maybe some PDA > style sw. (I would hope that whatever they do is Wow! Their date > management functions leave all competitors behind; no PDA has the date > functionality of an HP48). If you have a calculator with a high-res color screen, tons of memory, the ability to play MP3 files and PDA style software, what you have is a PDA with a calculator keyboard. Also, the 49G+ can have 128MB of memory, albeit not all usable in the same way as RAM. > Maybe other ideas which are reasonable (unlike all our fantasy > wishlists)... > ideas? Suggestions? I don't think your ideas are very reasonable at all! How do any of them, other than the high-res screen, help me to do math better? Isn't that the point of a calculator? To do math? Too often, we forget this! And tell me, symbolics and speed aside, how can the HP49G+ do math any better than the HP48SX? Which brings me to a thought that I had this morning: Since the HP48SX came out, what *important* new numeric features have been added to calculators? Is there really anything? An example, I suppose, of an important new feature would be the one included in the design of the winner of the HP Create A Calculator Contest by which one can keep track of one's precision. This is a new numeric feature that allows the calculator to do something that it couldn't do before. But along those lines, are there actually any important numeric features that need to be added at all? Do we already have everything that isn't so specialized that the user should be expected to write their own software to do it? By the way, what I would like in a calculator would be a 48GX without the graphing ability, crammed into a much smaller case. And a big, thick, well- written manual to go with it. (Or maybe to go *in* its memory.) -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== In infinite wisdom Joshua J. Belsky answered: [...] > If you have a calculator with a high-res color screen, tons of memory, the > ability to play MP3 files and PDA style software, what you have is a PDA > with a calculator keyboard. Also, the 49G+ can have 128MB of memory, albeit > not all usable in the same way as RAM. I'm a bit confused here. I know that the ARM can have 128MB, probably has a 32-bit address bus, but the Saturn, which it is emulating cannot. So if you did have 128MB installed, could the saturn emulation address more than, what is it, 512K (and banked at that)? I don't know the details of the Saturn, but I suspect that expanding the addressable range is gonna require more than an emulation, the entire calc OS will have to be re-written for the ARM. Course, if you are talking about storage through the SD slot, I'll agree with the range, but not that it's useable as RAM. Come to think of it, is there any reason why programs could not be run from flash? I'd expect that the write times for flash are abysmal and a running program would drain your batteries fast. But I'd think that a flag setting that would place variables somewhere in the HP's memory would allow for this kind of mix, unless there are other things I'm missing. Rich ==== > In infinite wisdom Joshua J. Belsky answered: > [...] >> If you have a calculator with a high-res color screen, tons of memory, the >> ability to play MP3 files and PDA style software, what you have is a PDA >> with a calculator keyboard. Also, the 49G+ can have 128MB of memory, albeit >> not all usable in the same way as RAM. > I'm a bit confused here. I know that the ARM can have 128MB, probably has > a 32-bit address bus, but the Saturn, which it is emulating cannot. So if > you did have 128MB installed, could the saturn emulation address more than, > what is it, 512K (and banked at that)? > Course, if you are talking about storage through the SD slot, I'll agree > with the range, but not that it's useable as RAM. Indeed, that is what I meant. Hence, albeit, not all usable in the same way as RAM. -Josh -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== > PDA 320x240 color screens must cost pennies (cents). Actually that's usually a substantial fraction of the total manufacturing cost of a PDA. ==== > 3. The HP48 had a Wow! factor bigger than a fat ladies-or-mans bottom. > A higher res screen would not have such a Wow! factor. So why not have > a color screen. Heck! PDA 320x240 color screens must cost pennies > (cents). So why not a PDA with such a screen? Of course imagine all > the internal code rework to achieve color graphics...so get the > mono-port out the door and then sooner or later release full color. > They have no competition if they do that (except for dressed up PDAs > with calc emulators but they dont count). > > But, WHY? Other than sucking the batteries like soup through a Hoover, what > would be the reason for having a color screen? Unless you want to play games > on the thing, I don't understand! And they aren't *that* cheap. Having a PDA- > style color screen is a pointless fantasy. I don't want one on my calculator! Yes - I agree with todays technology it would eat batteries. But what if one of these new-fangled technologies works ok (electronic paper, OLEDs, whatever). Assuming power issues were resolved, then color for multiplots, 3D bar/pie graphs etc. Everything you do on a desktop. > 4. What other things could they innovate on? Well screen for one as > > If you have a calculator with a high-res color screen, tons of memory, the > ability to play MP3 files and PDA style software, what you have is a PDA > with a calculator keyboard. Also, the 49G+ can have 128MB of memory, albeit > not all usable in the same way as RAM. There is a subtle difference in a PDA and a calc. To me - a PDA is a mostly read-only device (heck I read this newsgroup on it). But a calc is an interactive device. I'm not advocating one over the other, just saying What if...? > How dare you snip my fantasy :-) > I don't think your ideas are very reasonable at all! How do any of them, > other than the high-res screen, help me to do math better? Isn't that the > point of a calculator? To do math? Good points. I dont know. I know maths - very badly. I love the calc. To a more maths savvy person, what do they want? I dont know. Thats why we have a forum. I would like to think the calc could do just about anything (mathematically) that could ever be wanted. To me - its a 'toy' in the sense that unluckily my career doesnt need it. I loved maths at school, and I use the HP to learn more about maths, numbers, functions, and programming (I am always thinking ... now how is that actually impleemnted). > Which brings me to a thought that I had this morning: > Since the HP48SX came out, what *important* new numeric features have been > added to calculators? Is there really anything? 100! :-) > An example, I suppose, of an important new feature would be the one included > in the design of the winner of the HP Create A Calculator Contest by which > one can keep track of one's precision. This is a new numeric feature that > allows the calculator to do something that it couldn't do before. > > But along those lines, are there actually any important numeric features > that need to be added at all? Do we already have everything that isn't > so specialized that the user should be expected to write their own software > to do it? Those specialisms are very important. I want Financial (because I work in that industry and want to know more...not because I need it); I want electronics + chemistry + physics. Biology wouldnt go amiss...love to know what those people get up to. Etc. I have the old EQ Lib and it shows me all the things I know nothing about. > By the way, what I would like in a calculator would be a 48GX without the > graphing ability, crammed into a much smaller case. And a big, thick, well- > written manual to go with it. (Or maybe to go *in* its memory.) Yup - decent manuals certainly. Dont care about the size to be honest. Its too big. It wont fit in my pocket (wish it could). And I have run out of pockets after my PDA, iPod, Mobile phone.... I am a professionally sad person, but then arent we all ? :-) ==== > PDA 320x240 color screens must cost pennies (cents). > > Actually that's usually a substantial fraction of the total > manufacturing cost of a PDA. Well maybe. Whats the cheapest PDA on the market with one? Lets say the DELL Axim at about 160 GBP? Now thats more than the cost of a HP49G. More than an HP49G+. But looking at my records I think I paid what 200 GBP for the HP48SX way back. So thats cheap. What does the DELL have in it? CF Slot, SD mem card slot, lots of RAM and Flash memory. Oh and a MS license. So lets pick a price point, say 150 GBP ($250 US?)...that screen would be there. Of course we aint got any room for those darn keys....and if the device gets any bigger it may as well be a small notebook/laptop so we are talking different things. But I would reckon that screen costs what $20 .. tops. Dont think its an issue. Only think its getting the whole device size right. Of course I am professionally wrong on almost everything.... ==== > In infinite wisdom Joshua J. Belsky answered: > > [...] > > Come to think of it, is there any reason why programs could not be run from > flash? I'd expect that the write times for flash are abysmal and a running > program would drain your batteries fast. But I'd think that a flag setting that > would place variables somewhere in the HP's memory would allow for this kind > of mix, unless there are other things I'm missing. > > Rich Typical IO rates I have seen for Flash are like 1MByte/sec (think: PDA reading files). Course, the CPU can cache the instructions and get reasonable performance. But do you really want that as your system bottleneck? ==== | x x x | | x x x | | x x x | to | 0 x x | | x x x | | 0 0 x | The calc ask for 2 arguments: The matrix to be converted, and a vector that contains the independent variables. I think the GAUSS command is the right, but i'm not shure. And second: When entering: [A B C], the calc yells Invalid syntax (Same with [[A B C]]), so i must use the matrix writer in order to get the [A B C] vector on the stack. So, when my stack looks like this: 2: | 8 3 5 | | 6 7 4 | | 2 1 9 | 1: [A B C] and runs the GAUSS command, i get an error-message saying: GAUSS Error: Bad Argument Type. Maybe I'm thinking completely wrong, but i'll be thankful if someone will try to point me in right direction. ==== > > | x x x | | x x x | > | x x x | to | 0 x x | > | x x x | | 0 0 x | > > The calc ask for 2 arguments: The matrix to be converted, and a vector that > contains the independent variables. I think the GAUSS command is the right, > but i'm not shure. And second: > When entering: [A B C], the calc yells Invalid syntax (Same with [[A B > C]]), so i must use the matrix writer in order to get the [A B C] vector on > the stack. > > So, when my stack looks like this: > 2: > | 8 3 5 | > | 6 7 4 | > | 2 1 9 | > 1: > [A B C] > > and runs the GAUSS command, i get an error-message saying: > GAUSS Error: Bad Argument Type. GAUSS expects a quadratic form like 'A+2*B-3*C' in level 2 I can only guess what you want, you could try the next commands CHOLESKY, LU, qr, SCHUR I have used the LU in my HP 48GX years ago: Lower-Upper = LU > Maybe I'm thinking completely wrong, but i'll be thankful if someone will > try to point me in right direction. > I hope this helped PS: The info about matrices is available in Wiki-Wiki-Web for HP calcs @ http://www.hydrix.com/wiki/pmwiki.php/RPN/HomePage You may want to take a quick peek using the MatrixManipulationTable and then dive in! Make a contribution whereever you want! ==== > > | x x x | | x x x | > | x x x | to | 0 x x | > | x x x | | 0 0 x | > > The calc ask for 2 arguments: The matrix to be converted, and a vector that > contains the independent variables. I think the GAUSS command is the right, > but i'm not shure. And second: > When entering: [A B C], the calc yells Invalid syntax (Same with [[A B > C]]), so i must use the matrix writer in order to get the [A B C] vector on > the stack. > > So, when my stack looks like this: > 2: > | 8 3 5 | > | 6 7 4 | > | 2 1 9 | > 1: > [A B C] > > and runs the GAUSS command, i get an error-message saying: > GAUSS Error: Bad Argument Type. > > Maybe I'm thinking completely wrong, but i'll be thankful if someone will > try to point me in right direction. GAUSS is for quadratic forms (e.g. X^2+2*X*Y), you can use RREF, REF or rref for Gaussian elimination. ==== Veli-Pekka Nousiainen skrev i melding > > | x x x | | x x x | > | x x x | to | 0 x x | > | x x x | | 0 0 x | > > The calc ask for 2 arguments: The matrix to be converted, and a vector > that > contains the independent variables. I think the GAUSS command is the > right, > but i'm not shure. And second: > When entering: [A B C], the calc yells Invalid syntax (Same with [[A B > C]]), so i must use the matrix writer in order to get the [A B C] vector > on > the stack. > > So, when my stack looks like this: > 2: > | 8 3 5 | > | 6 7 4 | > | 2 1 9 | > 1: > [A B C] > > and runs the GAUSS command, i get an error-message saying: > GAUSS Error: Bad Argument Type. > GAUSS expects a quadratic form like 'A+2*B-3*C' in level 2 > > I can only guess what you want, you could try the next commands > CHOLESKY, LU, qr, SCHUR Have by now tried all of them. None worked the way I wanted. Some of them puts two matrices on the stack, and the CHOLESKY makes an matrix where some elements contains square root of -1. The answer i want is a matrix that looks like this: | x x x | But the determinant remains | 0 x x | the same as the original matrix. | 0 0 x | > I have used the LU in my HP 48GX years ago: Lower-Upper = LU > > Maybe I'm thinking completely wrong, but i'll be thankful if someone will > try to point me in right direction. > > I hope this helped > PS: The info about matrices is available in Wiki-Wiki-Web for HP calcs @ > http://www.hydrix.com/wiki/pmwiki.php/RPN/HomePage > You may want to take a quick peek using the MatrixManipulationTable > and then dive in! Make a contribution whereever you want! > > ==== skrev i melding > > | x x x | | x x x | > | x x x | to | 0 x x | > | x x x | | 0 0 x | > > The calc ask for 2 arguments: The matrix to be converted, and a vector that > contains the independent variables. I think the GAUSS command is the right, > but i'm not shure. And second: > When entering: [A B C], the calc yells Invalid syntax (Same with [[A B > C]]), so i must use the matrix writer in order to get the [A B C] vector on > the stack. > > So, when my stack looks like this: > 2: > | 8 3 5 | > | 6 7 4 | > | 2 1 9 | > 1: > [A B C] > > and runs the GAUSS command, i get an error-message saying: > GAUSS Error: Bad Argument Type. > > Maybe I'm thinking completely wrong, but i'll be thankful if someone will > try to point me in right direction. > > GAUSS is for quadratic forms (e.g. X^2+2*X*Y), you can use > RREF, REF or rref for Gaussian elimination. > Make an example matrix and see if it works: First: Make a random matrix: {3 3} Enter And: MATRICES -> CREATE -> RANM And I got: | -7 -3 3 | Wich gives an determinant like -669 | 3 -9 -6 | | -1 8 -5 | Trying RREF, an got this matrix: | 1 0 0 | | 0 1 0 | | 0 0 1 | And this is, if the matrix above have represented an equation with 3 unknown, ex X, Y, Z. Then X would be 0, Y would be 0, and Z is ? Or maybe i'm wrong. Maybe I should interpret it as it was two unknown, X and Z. Then X would be 0, Y would be 0 and X+Y =0 or X+Y=1. Not, can't be. Maybe it's impossible to solve. But anyway, it wasn't waas I was looking for. The determinant is not -669. Trying rref, and got this: :Pivots: { 1561 1. 223 1. 72 1. 24 1. 7 2. } and: | -37464 0 0 | | 0 -112392 0 | | 0 0 -4683 | And i have no idea what this is. Trying REF, and got | 1 3/7 -3/7 | And the determinant of this is: | 0 1 11/24 | 1 (one). But 1 is not -669, so | 0 0 1 | unfornately this is not the command I'm looking for. But thanks wery much anyway. ==== > > > > | x x x | | x x x | > > | x x x | to | 0 x x | > > | x x x | | 0 0 x | > > > > Try this program, it gives you the Gauss-Seidel and the Jacobian for three or more equations. http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/math/numeric/jacgase.zip guillen ==== > Make an example matrix and see if it works: > > First: Make a random matrix: > {3 3} Enter > And: MATRICES -> CREATE -> RANM > And I got: > > | -7 -3 3 | Wich gives an determinant like -669 > | 3 -9 -6 | > | -1 8 -5 | > N.B.: I assume you don't look for the determinant, because the answer would be to use DET > Trying RREF, an got this matrix: > | 1 0 0 | > | 0 1 0 | > | 0 0 1 | > And this is, if the matrix above have represented an equation with 3 > unknown, ex X, Y, Z. > Then X would be 0, Y would be 0, and Z is ? Or maybe i'm wrong. Maybe I > should interpret it as it was two unknown, X and Z. Then X would be 0, Y > would be 0 and X+Y =0 or X+Y=1. Not, can't be. Maybe it's impossible to > solve. But anyway, it wasn't waas I was looking for. The determinant is > not -669. > ... RREF returns a full row reduced matrice, REF a half row reduce matrice, rref is like RREF but it will not make the reduction by dividing the lines by the diagonal non zero coeff and it returns at level 2 the list of pivots used (with multiplicities), so that you know when the reduction is correct (solve pivot=0 with respect to the parameters for incorrect reduction) ==== I had some problems getting my HP to work with my PC, and it seems i am not the only one. Well. Here it goes. What you'll need: - PC with USB (2.0 or 1.0 it works with both) - USB Cable (shipped with the HP 49G+) - HP49G+ - Winzip (www.winzip.com) - The HP Connectivity kit (ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software2/COL4344/ca-14082-1/sp00001.exe) or the CD-ROM shipped with the HP49G+ (the Unpack your HP, download and install winzip and the connectivity kit. Okay, since my HP is not a retail version, it is a market sample, it didn't come with a CD, so i had to download the Connectivity Kit from the ftp site. My USB cable is broken, so i am using my Sony Cybershot DSC camera cable, which is the same. Ok, connect the cable to the computer and to the HP and turn the HP on. The computer should detect the hpx9g+ DEVICE. If it does not. USB may not be working in your computer. Check the BIOS, the USB plug, the internal USB connectors (if the connectors are not on the board) and your MB manual page. it you have a disk and you want to use it. Right click the sp00001.exe file and select Winzip->Extract to sp00001 folder (yes. it works), then select this folder on windows wizard. Wait for it to finish. Now run the HP Connectivity kit, select HP49G+ Device in Connect Using. If HP49G+ Device is not there, make shure your HP is turned on and it is connected to your PC and the driver is ok. Then on the HP press Right Shift AND THEN Right Arrow (DO NOT PRESS BOTH TOGETHER), and tell the Connectivity kit to connect. It must work. If not, read this post again. ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software2/COL4392/ca-14639-2/HP49GplusRomupdate 122.exe --Marco ==== > Unpack your HP, download and install winzip and the connectivity kit. Done. > Ok, connect the cable to the computer and to the HP and turn the HP > on. > The computer should detect the hpx9g+ DEVICE. It does. > it you have a disk and you want to use it. Right click the sp00001.exe > file and select Winzip->Extract to sp00001 folder (yes. it works), > then select this folder on windows wizard. > > Wait for it to finish. I did. > Now run the HP Connectivity kit, select HP49G+ Device in Connect > Using. If HP49G+ Device is not there, make shure your HP is turned on > and it is connected to your PC and the driver is ok. The device shows up. > Then on the HP press Right Shift AND THEN Right Arrow (DO NOT PRESS > BOTH TOGETHER), and tell the Connectivity kit to connect. It must > work. Nope. Conn4x is unable to communicate to the hpx9+ device. That's the error message. > If not, read this post again. Hmm ... > ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software2/COL4392/ca-14639-2/HP49GplusRomupda > te122.exe Weird enough, I was able to upgrade ROM to version 1.22, but a normal connection is impossible. Would you please check how much mA of amperage the hpx9+-device draws? On the PC it's 50 mA, on my Mac 100 mA. Michael -- -= Michael Hoppe , =------ ==== > Then on the HP press Right Shift AND THEN Right Arrow (DO NOT PRESS > BOTH TOGETHER), and tell the Connectivity kit to connect. Is that really necessary? Maybe a future ROM update could eliminate this step? (On the 68k, you don't need to do anything like this. The PC software even turns the unit on if needed.) -- Bhuvanesh ==== Michael.. Try this: on the HP, go to APPS, I/O, Tranfer, on Port, select Wire, on Type, select XModem then exit (i don't know if these settings really matter, but it does not hurt to try). Then press Right Shift AND THEN Right Arrow. Not BOTH. The HP must display XModem Server, Waiting for Command. Then make Conn4x connect :) I'll see the current at night.. I am at work now, the hp is not with me right now. --Marco ==== > Michael.. Try this: > on the HP, go to APPS, I/O, Tranfer, on Port, select Wire, on Type, > select XModem then exit (i don't know if these settings really matter, > but it does not hurt to try). Then press Right Shift AND THEN Right > Arrow. Not BOTH. I did this, step by step. IOPAR is OK. > The HP must display XModem Server, Waiting for Command. Sure it does. > Then make Conn4x connect :) The error message comes up. I think it's a weird hard/software problem. By the way, the PC runs under W98. On ma sister-in-law's PC, running XP, the transfer works well. > I'll see the current at night.. I am at work now, the hp is not with > me right now. Unlucky you ;^) Michael (May the hp with you) -- -= Michael Hoppe , =------ ==== In message <1g2j0lu.1r7aw14sw35dgN%mh@michael-hoppe.de>, Michael Hoppe >> Michael.. Try this: >> on the HP, go to APPS, I/O, Tranfer, on Port, select Wire, on Type, >> select XModem then exit (i don't know if these settings really matter, >> but it does not hurt to try). Then press Right Shift AND THEN Right >> Arrow. Not BOTH. > >I did this, step by step. IOPAR is OK. I've seen it suggested, but I don't have a 49G+ on which to check, that selecting Wire through the choose screen does not actually change flag -33 (which controls IR/Wire). Go to Mode->Flags to check. Perhaps you could let me know if this is the cause of problem? -- Bruce Horrocks Surrey England ==== Michael, It seems a windows 98 bug, or PC hardware bug... Btw, In my winxp, the HP drawns 50mA Good luck to you. --Marco ==== > It seems a windows 98 bug, or PC hardware bug... I'll get anew USB-controller and see what happens then. Michael -- -= Michael Hoppe , =------ ==== > I've seen it suggested, but I don't have a 49G+ on which to check, that > selecting Wire through the choose screen does not actually change flag > -33 (which controls IR/Wire). Go to Mode->Flags to check. The flags are properly set, thanks anyway. Michael -- -= Michael Hoppe , =------ ==== > > It seems a windows 98 bug, or PC hardware bug... > > I'll get anew USB-controller and see what happens then. > > Michael Both older 1.0.4.0 and the new 1.0.4.2 USB driver HPx) DEVICE seem to work ok in my WinXP Pro ENG. You may need to install the .inf for each USB port separately. See that the Conn4x is Build 1689 (or greater?). The older Conn4x works more unreliably. ==== HALT inside a program suspends its ran. It saves all its local variables and you can do what you want until CONT is pressed or run from some menu key, say. Many built-in and 3rd party applications offer a HALT option, If using such applications in a stacked manner, at least I often forget after a while the suspension made last, and the only way-out is to kill all suspended programs. A very bad and inefficient method. IMHO, it would be nice to have a second halting command HALT* which asks for a small string displayed instead of HLT in the header but works like HALT. Trying to realize this with the aid of beta-ENTER does not work perfectly. To give an example look at the Meta option in the Emacs appl menu. Its activitiy is indicated by the transfer annunciator ->, a rather unpleasant misuse of ->. Would look much nicer if the header Emacs edit, etc. Clearly, the best would be if some row in the HP49+ header displayed the titles of the suspended programs and one can choose with HIST which one to reactivate, similar as in Win. The OS could all this relatively easy realize, without additional timesharing tasks of the ARM processor. - Wolfgang ==== Can anybody confirm or deny that the HP 12C available today has faster chips / performance than 1 bought in 1988? Separately, I assume that the functionality of the 12C has not changed a bit (sic) over that time. Thx, - TK ==== In infinite wisdom Tripp Knightly answered: > Can anybody confirm or deny that the HP 12C available today has faster > chips / performance than 1 bought in 1988? I believe I recall that, due to the original parts no longer being available, it was redesigned. I also recall that when they tested it, the financial types who use it did not trust the answer when it came right back, so they slowed it down. Rich > Separately, I assume that the functionality of the 12C has not changed > a bit (sic) over that time. Except for the new platinum. > Thx, > > - TK ==== > Is there anyway to add a direct link to libraries through the custom menu? This is so that I don't have to press numerous keys to access a program stored in library. Yes First open up a list { } Go to the library menu of your choise and for those commands that you want in a custom menu press each menu key in turn (NXT goes to NeXT page) Then press ENTER to put the list into the stack and finally key in MENU and press ENTER Voila! You now have a custom menu of your liking! Whenever you press CUSTOM you get thet menu Pressing VAR now shows a new (reserved) variable name CST, which simply holds the list you just created. You can have different CST in each directory, if you wish so. ==== > Is there anyway to add a direct link to libraries through > the custom menu? This is so that I don't have to press numerous > keys to access a program stored in library. To access the menu of a library, you type the library's number, then MENU (in RPN mode). Thus, the program << 1200 MENU >> would open up the Keyman library's menu, if you have that installed normally. Thus, to have it linked from your custom menu, add the item { Keyman << 1200 MENU >> } to your CST variable. Added note -- if you have the Keyman library: If you do this, whenever you press the menu option from your custom menu to see the Keyman library menu, whatever you have in the command line will get put on the stack first, as if you pressed ENTER, then visited the menu. You probably don't want this -- instead, you want it to work like every other menu, right? This can be done easily. The Keyman library has the command ->TO?, which can add a TakeOver command to the beginning of your program. Normally, you would typically get this by creating a program in SysRPL. What you need to do is put the program << 1200 MENU >> on level one of the stack, and then go to the Keyman library's menu (perhaps with DUP and EVAL ;-) ), and choose the command ->TO?. You will think that nothing happened. But it did. Your program now has the command TakeOver placed at its beginning, which means that when you select it from the custom menu, it will run _without_ putting the contents of the command line on the stack first, and you will also be able to use it while in the text editor. You _could_ see the TakeOver command, if you set your calculator to SysRPL stack display mode (with -85 SF). It would help to have the extable library, but if you do not know what that is, don't worry (at all). Anyway, after doing the ->TO? command, you now have a program on level one of the stack, which has an invisible command attached to its front. You need to then type the following commands: CST (puts the custom menu list on the stack) Keyman (put a string on the stack, to be used as your menu label) ROT (ROTates your special program to the first level of the stack.) 2 ->LIST (makes a list with the label Keyman and your program) 1 ->LIST (puts the list inside another list, so that the next operation concatenates properly) + (concatenates the lists, creating a new list) Now take this new list, and store it to the CST variable. You need to make sure that the CST list does not get edited with the text editor (and stored again), because the editing will remove the TakeOver that you put in there (when converting the text you were editing back to a list, it sees the program as an ordinary program, not your modified one). You'll need to piece together the list with the stack, and operations under the PRG > LIST menu. This time, if you press the Keyman button in your custom menu, you'll get the library's menu up without affecting the text you are currently editing. ==== The example for FACTOR command in the 49 manual, x^2+5x+6 factors to (x+2)(x+3). My question is if there is any way to still get the factoring (wrt x) if say plus y is added to the input, x^2+5x+6+y. Admittedly it can be done manually in EqEdit, by marking the x terms and constant - but just wondered if there was a easier way? Dave h ==== Do the factoring and then add the y. Or if the y is already there, subtract it, factor and then add the y back. > > The example for FACTOR command in the 49 manual, x^2+5x+6 factors to > (x+2)(x+3). > My question is if there is any way to still get the factoring (wrt x) if say > plus y is added to the input, x^2+5x+6+y. > Admittedly it can be done manually in EqEdit, by marking the x terms and > constant - but just wondered if there was a easier way? > > > > > > > Dave h ==== But that method could quickly get tiresom with more complicated equations. There may not be another way though :-( Dave h > Do the factoring and then add the y. Or if the y is already there, > subtract it, factor and then add the y back. > > > The example for FACTOR command in the 49 manual, x^2+5x+6 factors to > (x+2)(x+3). > My question is if there is any way to still get the factoring (wrt x) if say > plus y is added to the input, x^2+5x+6+y. > Admittedly it can be done manually in EqEdit, by marking the x terms and > constant - but just wondered if there was a easier way? > > > > > > > Dave h ==== In the Equation Writer you can select a part of an expression and press FACTOR (or any other function) to work on that part. You may have to practice a bit with the cursor and shift keys to get proficient in re-arranging and selecting the parts you want. Tom > > But that method could quickly get tiresom with more complicated equations. > There may not be another way though :-( > > Dave h > > > > >>Do the factoring and then add the y. Or if the y is already there, >>subtract it, factor and then add the y back. >> > > >>> >>>The example for FACTOR command in the 49 manual, x^2+5x+6 factors to >>>(x+2)(x+3). >>>My question is if there is any way to still get the factoring (wrt x) if > > say > >>>plus y is added to the input, x^2+5x+6+y. >>>Admittedly it can be done manually in EqEdit, by marking the x terms > > and > >>>constant - but just wondered if there was a easier way? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Dave h > > > ==== with information that was given under NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement). So that part of the Conference we'll not hear about here. But what of the rest? There were presentations of interest to many who couldn't make it. For those who did - how was it? Any news you'd like to share with the rest of us? Joe - I'm eager to learn of your optimized accuracy rational approximation algorithm. Any chance you'll put it on your Web site? of us unable to attend, the effects ripple throughout the field and affect us all. X<>Y, Jim Horn ==== Having had access to HP representatives during the conference, did you find out if support for the HP 49G will be started again, i.e. ROM updates, or will the ROM for the 49G Plus model work on the 49G? Thx ==== > Having had access to HP representatives during the conference, did you find > out if support for the HP 49G will be started again, i.e. ROM updates, or > will the ROM for the 49G Plus model work on the 49G? Thx Reading the thread here I have come to a conclusion that A) The ROMs will certainly be incompatibel to DOWNLOAD/FLASH B) The ROMs might be easily generated from the same source C) Wolfgang seems to have a new 49G ROM 1.22 so that he can uograde his marvellous tools to any 49G based calc 1) 49g+ 2) 49G new ROM 3) 49G ROM 1.19-6 So, don't worry, be happy! PS. I do not know if HP will let the new ROM to be released on the old 49G but that should definately be done by the release of the 49G? in the USA, so that each and every program can be upgraded (if needed) and that in the future they could run on any 49-based calculatrice. PPS: If you ever try the new 49G+ there is no way of going back the overall speed is that good - it simply feels snappy/fast This must be some kind of psygological effect when the screen updates happen under the human reaction speed (except for Anakin Skywalker) ==== > Having had access to HP representatives during the conference, did you find > out if support for the HP 49G will be started again, i.e. ROM updates, This was discussed but I was a bit preoccupied at the time and am not sure exactly what the conclusion was. I know it was said that the 49G+ ROM has a lot of ARM code that will not work on the 49G. > or will the ROM for the 49G Plus model work on the 49G? Definitely not. ==== I'm too tired to upload more right now, but I've put two photos from The first photo shows the four HP employees present at the conference, Lee-Khuan Goh, Cyrille de Brebisson, Fred Valdez, and Tony Jones. The second shows them along with Wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz and Richard Nelson. We're having a great time, wish you were here! ==== Nice. I very much wanted to go. Any HP-49G+s given out to attendees as there were for the HP49 release? > I'm too tired to upload more right now, but I've put two photos from > > > The first photo shows the four HP employees present at the conference, > Lee-Khuan Goh, Cyrille de Brebisson, Fred Valdez, and Tony Jones. The > second shows them along with Wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz and Richard Nelson. > > We're having a great time, wish you were here! ==== > Nice. I very much wanted to go. > > Any HP-49G+s given out to attendees as there were for the HP49 release? > Don't care about the calcs givenout as I am not there. Any info given out by HP? Arnaud ==== > We're having a great time, wish you were here! I wish to be there too! Have fun, --- J.Manrique L.97pez de la Fuente Users Club from Gij.97n 1077 HPCC Member ==== > Nice. I very much wanted to go. > Any HP-49G+s given out to attendees as there were for the HP49 release? No, something much more important happened. HP is listening to our suggestions/requests/advice, as they recognize that the user community is vital in getting HP into new markets (and better penetration in existing markets). HP's calculator division, back in the Corvallis days, used to present the appearance of a giant monolith that emitted new products from time to time, but rarely paid much attention to user community feedback. Because HP had a lot of employees working on calculators back then, this approach actually worked quite well, but as the calculator division shrunk dramatically as it was handed off from one HP location to another, it stopped working. This mode of operation appears to have finally been rejected by the current calculator division, and they are now much more interested in cooperation with the user community, as can be seen from the recent HP 49G+ design which incorporates many improvements we've suggested. HP's calculator team is much smaller than in years past, but much more focused. They have done a remarkable job of bringing a number of refresh products to market in less than a year, as compared to the historical two year (or more) design cycle. This was essential because most of the old product line became uneconomical to continue manufacturing due to use of technology that had gone obsolete. Now that this product line refresh is well underway, they are ready to focus on development of more advanced products. A year ago at the HPCC 2002 conference in London, Fred Valdez, director of the calculator division,p told us that this was the plan, and asked us to trust him and give the team time to get the ball rolling. He was true to his word, and his team has done a fantastic job. I'm really looking forward to the next generation of products (and eagerly awaiting the HP 49G+ I have on order). Note that conference attendees were asked to sign NDAs before the product roadmap was presented, so we can't reveal the details we learned from their presentation. Eric ==== > Note that conference attendees were asked to sign NDAs before the > product roadmap was presented, so we can't reveal the details we > learned from their presentation. I had wanted very much to attend, mostly to (finally!) meet Richard Nelson, Joe and Jim Horn, Jake Schwartz, Wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz, now I'm glad I couldn't make it, because I just would have had to turn around and come home as soon as the NDA was brought out. (Not that I expect HP to have any news I'd want to repeat, anyway, but I never sign NDAs as a matter of principle.) -- Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== So it's still Promises, promises? > Nice. I very much wanted to go. > Any HP-49G+s given out to attendees as there were for the HP49 release? > > No, something much more important happened. HP is listening to our > suggestions/requests/advice, as they recognize that the user community > is vital in getting HP into new markets (and better penetration in existing > markets). > > HP's calculator division, back in the Corvallis days, used to present > the appearance of a giant monolith that emitted new products from time > to time, but rarely paid much attention to user community feedback. > Because HP had a lot of employees working on calculators back then, this > approach actually worked quite well, but as the calculator division > shrunk dramatically as it was handed off from one HP location to > another, it stopped working. > > This mode of operation appears to have finally been rejected by the > current calculator division, and they are now much more interested in > cooperation with the user community, as can be seen from the recent HP > 49G+ design which incorporates many improvements we've suggested. > > HP's calculator team is much smaller than in years past, but much more > focused. They have done a remarkable job of bringing a number of > refresh products to market in less than a year, as compared to the > historical two year (or more) design cycle. This was essential > because most of the old product line became uneconomical to continue > manufacturing due to use of technology that had gone obsolete. Now > that this product line refresh is well underway, they are ready to > focus on development of more advanced products. > > A year ago at the HPCC 2002 conference in London, Fred Valdez, director > of the calculator division,p told us that this was the plan, and asked > us to trust him and give the team time to get the ball rolling. He was > true to his word, and his team has done a fantastic job. I'm really > looking forward to the next generation of products (and eagerly awaiting > the HP 49G+ I have on order). > > Note that conference attendees were asked to sign NDAs before the > product roadmap was presented, so we can't reveal the details we > learned from their presentation. > > Eric ==== > So it's still Promises, promises? No, not at all. They've delivered *exactly* what they promised us last year, so they have established credibility. ==== In message , Wayne Brown > >> Note that conference attendees were asked to sign NDAs before the >> product roadmap was presented, so we can't reveal the details we >> learned from their presentation. > >I had wanted very much to attend, mostly to (finally!) meet Richard >Nelson, Joe and Jim Horn, Jake Schwartz, Wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz, >now I'm glad I couldn't make it, because I just would have had to turn >around and come home as soon as the NDA was brought out. (Not that I >expect HP to have any news I'd want to repeat, anyway, but I never sign >NDAs as a matter of principle.) You would only have had to step out for one presentation. Don't let it put you off attending next time. -- Bruce Horrocks Surrey England ==== > but I never sign > NDAs as a matter of principle.) You must miss out on a lot of work opportunities then... Unfortunately, in my experiences I've never been able to talk to any companies before first signing a NDA ==== > You would only have had to step out for one presentation. Don't let it > put you off attending next time. are going, there probably will be less and less of interest to me at each meeting. All I really want is to get together for a nice long talk about the PPC/CHHU/HPX days with some of the people who were there. -- Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== >> but I never sign >> NDAs as a matter of principle.) > You must miss out on a lot of work opportunities then... > Unfortunately, in my experiences I've never been able to talk to any > companies before first signing a NDA It's never come up at the companies where I've worked. As a programmer/sysadmin in (non-computer-industry) manufacturing, I don't normally come in contact with trade secrets. (For instance, when I worked for a paper company I knew a great deal about their order processing/inventory control software but nothing about the details of the chemical formulas used in the papermaking process.) The only place I've run into NDAs is when dealing with hardware or software vendors, and in those cases I always either find another vendor or else kick those dealings upstairs to someone higher up the organizational chain than myself. So I've managed to avoid having to sign any NDAs. Even when I've dealt with HP technical support (for HP3000 and HP9000 minicomputers) in the past I've been able to get access to technical information without having to sign anything. No doubt it would be different if I worked for a commercial software company or if I were more directly involved in the proprietary aspects of the manufacturing processes. -- Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== Now that you have HP's ear, is anyone going to bring up the issue of keyboard reliability on the early 49G+ units? > I'm too tired to upload more right now, but I've put two photos from ==== > Now that you have HP's ear, is anyone going to bring up the issue of > keyboard reliability on the early 49G+ units? The subject was raised, and it was stated that they're working on it. ==== Mmm... Sounds like a good reason to wait a few months for a couple batches to pass? A la CNXXXXXX HP49Gs? > Now that you have HP's ear, is anyone going to bring up the issue of > keyboard reliability on the early 49G+ units? > > The subject was raised, and it was stated that they're working on it. ==== > Note that conference attendees were asked to sign NDAs before the > product roadmap was presented, so we can't reveal the details we > learned from their presentation. > To bad there was a NDA but thanks for your account of some of the things that have been said. Arnaud ==== weekend: I'm looking forward to seeing you there! Jim Horn (the older one - PPC1402/CHHU/etc.) ==== isn't cube root equal to x^(1/3) ? Yeasereno ha escrito: > Newbie question. Attempting to graph a cube root function on my HP48G. Can > anyone tell me how you do this? If I hit the button labeled x(square root)y > I get a Xroot, but I'm attempting to find the cube root of X. > > Any help is appreciated. ==== > isn't cube root equal to x^(1/3) ? Yes. http://mathworld.wolfram.com/CubeRoot.html On the TI-68k, you get the schoolbook definition in Real mode and the extended complex plane definition in Complex mode (Rectangular or Polar). -- Bhuvanesh ==== > Why don't you read your manual for once? > Cuz It Sucks!!!!!!! As fast and powerful as 49g may be, its the details like keyboard and crappy documentation that make users go for the 48 series. BTW: Why the arrogance?? Im sure you didnt use calcs to good at some time. Im also thinking that its all you do. ==== > Cuz It Sucks!!!!!!! As fast and powerful as 49g may be, its the > details like keyboard and crappy documentation that make users go for > the 48 series. Do you ever read what you're writing? Your original post was about the 48G Newbie question. Attempting to graph a cube root function on my HP48G. So what are you dribbling about? > BTW: Why the arrogance?? Im sure you didnt use calcs to good at some > time. Im also thinking that its all you do. But I did read my manual before asking dumb questions ==== > Cuz It Sucks!!!!!!! As fast and powerful as 49g may be, its the > details like keyboard and crappy documentation that make users go for > the 48 series. > > Do you ever read what you're writing? Your original post was about the > 48G Newbie question. Attempting to graph a cube root function on my > HP48G. > So what are you dribbling about? > > BTW: Why the arrogance?? Im sure you didnt use calcs to good at some > time. Im also thinking that its all you do. > But I did read my manual before asking dumb questions > What is a dumb question anyway? If I recall, the solution was to use XROOT. If I wanted to know how to program the cube root, I'm sure I would never have thought of using XROOT. I'm not certain I would have found it without already knowing it existed. Sometimes you can search all you want, but if you don't use the right key words you'll never find what you're looking for, no matter how simple it turns out to be. ==== Fulcrum schrieb im Newsbeitrag > As i have mentioned in a previous post, my keyboard has no flaw, but a > particular key (SPC) is not recognised if I don't press it fairly hard > Are you having this with any keys? The [On]-key has to be pressed fairly hard to be recognised on my particular unit. Also sometimes the [0], [1], [ENTER] and also the [F6]-key are not recognised by the calc. I got several wrong results in some calculations because the calc didn't recognise all the numbers I typed. Even if it makes click you have to chek if the number is really accepted by the calc and appears on the stack. Checking the display all the time slows you down and is a bit annoying IMO. Roman ==== > Fulcrum schrieb im Newsbeitrag > As i have mentioned in a previous post, my keyboard has no flaw, but a > particular key (SPC) is not recognised if I don't press it fairly hard > Are you having this with any keys? > > The [On]-key has to be pressed fairly hard to be recognised on my particular > unit. Also sometimes the [0], [1], [ENTER] and also the [F6]-key are not > recognised by the calc. > I got several wrong results in some calculations because the calc didn't > recognise all the numbers I typed. Even if it makes click you have to chek > if the number is really accepted by the calc and appears on the stack. > Checking the display all the time slows you down and is a bit annoying IMO. > > Roman I have to ask u something. I am really interested in that hp49g+ but it seems that many of them doesnt work well. I dont understand why you dont replace them with HP because the problems you describe doesnt seem to be your fault. I mean, THE DEVICE ISNT WORKING PROPERLY so HP must replace it. I supose you will not accept to live with these bad keyboard forever wont you ? something smells very bad here, people. Can anyone explain what is going on ? you have paid a lot of money - dont you insist on getting something good for exchange ? Maybe We should contact HP AND GIVE THEM THE ADDRESS OF THIS SITE SO THEY CAN SEE THE COMMENTS BECAUSE IT DOESNT CONTRIBUTE MUCH TO THEIR PROUD. bye Idan ==== > > Fulcrum schrieb im Newsbeitrag > > As i have mentioned in a previous post, my keyboard has no flaw, but a > > particular key (SPC) is not recognised if I don't press it fairly hard > > Are you having this with any keys? > > The [On]-key has to be pressed fairly hard to be recognised on my particular > unit. Also sometimes the [0], [1], [ENTER] and also the [F6]-key are not > recognised by the calc. > I got several wrong results in some calculations because the calc didn't > recognise all the numbers I typed. Even if it makes click you have to chek > if the number is really accepted by the calc and appears on the stack. > Checking the display all the time slows you down and is a bit annoying IMO. > > Roman > > > I have to ask u something. I am really interested in that hp49g+ but > it seems that many of them doesnt work well. I dont understand why you > dont replace them with HP because the problems you describe doesnt > seem to be your fault. I mean, THE DEVICE ISNT WORKING PROPERLY so HP > must replace it. I supose you will not accept to live with these bad > keyboard forever wont you ? something smells very bad here, people. > Can anyone explain what is going on ? you have paid a lot of money - > dont you insist on getting something good for exchange ? Hmm, I wasn't aware that my post sounds so negative. The keyboard isn't that bad. In fact I like the keyboard on the 49G+ better than the one on the 49G. The only negative point about the keybord it is that sometimes the keypress is not recognized by the calc, even if it clicks. Another minor negative issue about the calc is the behaviour of the SD card. If the calc is turned off and on again, the SD card has to be reinserted to show its contents in the filer. I assume (or hope at least) that can be fixed in the next ROM. That's what the flash ROM is for. But beside this two negative points there is also a very stable OS (not a single crash so far), a fast CPU, a big display with good contrast, a nice CAS and plenty of documentation (on CD) and also a design I actually like. Furthermore the calc can be expanded with SD cards and offers more storage than my first computer. When I got my first 49G a few years ago I got a calc with a useless documentation, a stiff keyboard and my calc crashed in the first five minutes I got it. And I even had to pay a lot more for the 49G than for the 49G+ now and there was no con. kit included. Did I return the unit to get a refund? No, I didn't. Am I now dissapointed about the 49G+? No, not at all, it's a great machine! IMO you can't get anything else competing with this calc in this price range (even when taking the few negative points in account). Still I think it's OK to tell here about the few imperfections the machine has. I don't know what to do about the keyboard issue. If everyone just keeps his unit and doesn't want to have it replaced, HP isn't forced to do anything about it and probably won't improve anything on the hardware, on the other hand the 49G+ we got from HP is more we actually hoped for. So I really don't know yet if I will try to get the unit replaced with a calc with a better working keyboard. After all, is your girlfriend perfect? ;-) Roman > Maybe We should contact HP AND GIVE THEM THE ADDRESS OF THIS SITE SO > THEY CAN SEE THE COMMENTS BECAUSE IT DOESNT CONTRIBUTE MUCH TO THEIR > PROUD. > bye > Idan ==== >After all, is your girlfriend perfect? ;-) But I don't take my girlfriend into exams and expect her to spit out the right answers when I *think* I've asked the right questions ;-) Dave h > > > Fulcrum schrieb im Newsbeitrag > > As i have mentioned in a previous post, my keyboard has no flaw, but a > > particular key (SPC) is not recognised if I don't press it fairly hard > > Are you having this with any keys? > > > > The [On]-key has to be pressed fairly hard to be recognised on my > particular > > unit. Also sometimes the [0], [1], [ENTER] and also the [F6]-key are > not > > recognised by the calc. > > I got several wrong results in some calculations because the calc didn't > > recognise all the numbers I typed. Even if it makes click you have to > chek > > if the number is really accepted by the calc and appears on the stack. > > Checking the display all the time slows you down and is a bit annoying > IMO. > > > > Roman > > > I have to ask u something. I am really interested in that hp49g+ but > it seems that many of them doesnt work well. I dont understand why you > dont replace them with HP because the problems you describe doesnt > seem to be your fault. I mean, THE DEVICE ISNT WORKING PROPERLY so HP > must replace it. I supose you will not accept to live with these bad > keyboard forever wont you ? something smells very bad here, people. > Can anyone explain what is going on ? you have paid a lot of money - > dont you insist on getting something good for exchange ? > > Hmm, I wasn't aware that my post sounds so negative. The keyboard isn't that > bad. In fact I like the keyboard on the 49G+ better than the one on the 49G. > The only negative point about the keybord it is that sometimes the keypress > is not recognized by the calc, even if it clicks. Another minor negative > issue about the calc is the behaviour of the SD card. If the calc is turned > off and on again, the SD card has to be reinserted to show its contents in > the filer. I assume (or hope at least) that can be fixed in the next ROM. > That's what the flash ROM is for. > > But beside this two negative points there is also a very stable OS (not a > single crash so far), a fast CPU, a big display with good contrast, a nice > CAS and plenty of documentation (on CD) and also a design I actually like. > Furthermore the calc can be expanded with SD cards and offers more storage > than my first computer. > > When I got my first 49G a few years ago I got a calc with a useless > documentation, a stiff keyboard and my calc crashed in the first five > minutes I got it. And I even had to pay a lot more for the 49G than for the > 49G+ now and there was no con. kit included. Did I return the unit to get a > refund? No, I didn't. > > Am I now dissapointed about the 49G+? No, not at all, it's a great machine! > IMO you can't get anything else competing with this calc in this price range > (even when taking the few negative points in account). Still I think it's OK > to tell here about the few imperfections the machine has. > I don't know what to do about the keyboard issue. If everyone just keeps his > unit and doesn't want to have it replaced, HP isn't forced to do anything > about it and probably won't improve anything on the hardware, on the other > hand the 49G+ we got from HP is more we actually hoped for. So I really > don't know yet if I will try to get the unit replaced with a calc with a > better working keyboard. > After all, is your girlfriend perfect? ;-) > > Roman > > Maybe We should contact HP AND GIVE THEM THE ADDRESS OF THIS SITE SO > THEY CAN SEE THE COMMENTS BECAUSE IT DOESNT CONTRIBUTE MUCH TO THEIR > PROUD. > bye > Idan > > ==== I am sorry if my english isnt so well. Well, You have convinced me that the hp49g+ is a good machine. I have to tell you that actually i like the hp49g very much althogh its many negative points. I think that the editor is the best i have seen. I think that TI calculators dont use anything even similar to this brilliant editor. Its true that the manual wasnt good enough but I forced myself to learn it and from other resources like www.hpcalc.org and now i rule it for my needs. The only things I hate about the hp49g is the keyboard and the screen. and I too suffered from a crash the first week i bought it and replaced it immediately and then it was fine. 2 or 3 crashes in 4 years.. BUT I REALLY HATE HATE HATE THE KEYBOARD AND THE SCREEN !!! so it is very important to me because it is funny to say - because of the bad keyboard i just found a scheme to click with both hands and force myself to press real hard.... I think this is a real idiotic thing... However, Can someone tell me where is the best place to order from so that i can be sure they give me the latest production and not the older ones ? Maybe from HP themselves ? and to mention it in the order ? I dont know. I hate to pay good money and to be dissapointed later. Who doesn't ? P.S Sometimes you actually need to press the right spots the right way...(with my girlfriend) but with my hp i prefer it to turn on without forplay...if u understand me.. bye Idan Technion. Israel. ==== One more thing : Can I be calm and certain that the hp49g rom and cas and editor is at least similar to the old hp49g ? or did they changed it ? Bye Idan Technion. Israel. ==== What's going on in HP? Where is the quality control in this machine.It's obvious that this calculator has a problem with the keyboard. Another mistake from enginneers????? Many people in this forum is mentioning about keys that are no recognized until they press hard.!!!!!!! The other specifications are excellent , but the keyboard is the KEY! If HP don't do something to correct this problem i'm never going to recommend the 49g+ to my students. It sounds radical, but if we don't do nothing we never will have a great machine! ==== > > One more thing : Can I be calm and certain that the hp49g rom and cas > and editor is at least similar to the old hp49g ? or did they changed > it ? The 49G and the 49G+ behave identical. There is no big difference to the last released beta rom for the 49G. The main difference is the hardware. If you are used to the HP49G you won't have anything new to learn if you should get the 49G+. Roman > Bye > > Idan > Technion. Israel. ==== In fact, my hp32SII which has the same venerable keyboard of hp48's behaves worse, as has a SIN key that is often not recognised no matter the pressure of the finger, that is really annoying. Fulcrum escribi.97 en el mensaje > Nah, my keyboard can be considered ok by any quality control > All keys except the SPC respond instantly to any soft push, and the spc key > works ok, only you have to press it firmly, which i consider its not a crazy > thing, perhaps is better and you get used to push it well and don't be > afraid you have pressed it or not. > today I went to the store to see if they would replace the unit, but when > the guy used it it worked ok (as I have described before) so said me that > was normal, and i think actually it is not a faulty unit in anything (only > the sd card issue, that will be solved soon withot a doubt) remember, no key > is not responding. > > Gregorio Munoz escribi.97 en el mensaje > What's going on in HP? Where is the quality control in this > machine.It's obvious that this calculator has a problem with the > keyboard. Another mistake from enginneers????? Many people in this > forum is mentioning about keys that are no recognized until they press > hard.!!!!!!! The other specifications are excellent , but the keyboard > is the KEY! If HP don't do something to correct this problem i'm never > going to recommend the 49g+ to my students. It sounds radical, but if > we don't do nothing we never will have a great machine! > > ==== I am really confused now. I am really dissapointed of HP. They spend so much money and time in order to come out with the best calculator service and asked them to look in this site and see the comments about the hp49g+. I dont know if they will take it seriously... But I think that, and I know it sounds a bit selfish but i think that anyone who had already bought a unit and it has a fuck should return it or at least write a letter to hp. That way, other users will be able to buy a better product.. Question : For those who know TI calculators - Is the TI keyboard better than the hp49g+ ? I tested this keyboard (the TI's) and it feels a bit like the toy calculator for age 3.... so if the hp49g+ keyboard is worse then this - well - its a real shity keyboard... One more thing : You want to tell me that all the programs which were written for the old hp49 doesnt work on the new one ? this is a big problem because so many good people spent time writing those programs and i use many of them. HP - too bad you fall on the small things... sometimes they are the real big ones ! See ya Idan ==== Just wanted to move up my request... A small trick we use time to time.. ==== it's possible to slow down the HP49+ (like the HP28) ?? or maybe introduce this new feature in a new ROM release ?? Some players need this feature to play the HP49 games on their HP49+ at a correct speed :) Lilian. ==== > it's possible to slow down the HP49+ (like the HP28) ?? > or maybe introduce this new feature in a new ROM release ?? I doubt that such a possibility exist at present. The HP49+ OS is not emulated as a whole but some sensitive parts are rewritten in native ARM code. Thus, I guess the SysRPL-programmer is responsable for his game's speed by himself. Thus, all speed-senstive games may need revision. My collection of animations in ANI49 on hpcalc.org is running perfectly on the HP49+ since the animator (called ANI) was conceived from the very beginning such that one can alter the speed with UpArrow and DownArrow. The Horse may now run in unbelievable speed over the screen if wanted, but it may also run slow enough to watch its elegant movements. Windows-like Tetris games with self-growing speed probably need revision whereas my TETRI needs no updating at all because the user can reduce the dropping speed during the game. This remains in memory until a next change. My other game, a modernization of the old 48-MINEHUNT, runs also absolutly perfect on the new engine, but only in ROM 1.22. - Wolfgang ==== Official launch of the 17bii+: contest: http://www.hp.com/calculators/contest/index.html Doug ==== Well, I brought my HP41CX back from the dead, but it has been so long since I used it. I no longer have the user manuals, and I am trying to figure out the memory setup. I have performed the Catalog 1, 2, 4, and 6 functions and have cleared the memory space for the most part, but I still have an item in Catalog 4. The Item is A @004 and I assume this is a text file with 4 Items, but I'm not sure. I have an Advantage Module plugged in, if that helps. What brought this on, was that I was flipping through an old college text book, and out fell a piece of paper with a HP41 program hand written on it. I think it solves the Antoine Equation for saturated pressure of saturated exam, but that was 15 years ago. Any help would be appreciated. Sam ==== There is a file named A of length 4. Don't know about the @ type, should be A for ascii, D for data or P for program. You can purge it by putting A in the alpha register and then executing PURFL. You can access online manuals at hp41.org. You might consider investing in a DVD with manuals and other goodies from either them or hpmuseum.org (or both). David > Well, I brought my HP41CX back from the dead, but it has been so long since > I used it. I no longer have the user manuals, and I am trying to figure out > the memory setup. I have performed the Catalog 1, 2, 4, and 6 functions and > have cleared the memory space for the most part, but I still have an item in > Catalog 4. The Item is A @004 and I assume this is a text file with > 4 Items, but I'm not sure. ==== I'd like to know if the HP42S and HP17BII(+) displays are identical, ie., have the same set of annunciators. My 42's display is broken, and I know from the Brazilian HP calc support that this part is not supported anymore, but I was wondering if the display from a similar machine (17, 27) could be used instead. Iuri Wickert ==== > > I'd like to know if the HP42S and HP17BII(+) displays are identical, > ie., have the same set of annunciators. My 42's display is broken, and > I know from the Brazilian HP calc support that this part is not > supported anymore, but I was wondering if the display from a similar > machine (17, 27) could be used instead. > > Iuri Wickert Not sure about the compatibility. I owned a 42S sinse 1998. Broke down (display indeed) in 2001. Replaced it ( so called repair) with a new one. Broke down in 2002 (right column of buttons didn't work). Tried to open it, but ruined the machine in doing so. There might be a problem in opening the case... All ==== Sorry but they are identical, Sorry for these words, but you ruined your 42S because you were not paying attention, opening these machines is much easier than a 48 family, you do only have to take a VISA card do a little effort and it will be easy to open. A way to have a good 42s is havin much 17bII And i think that the newer 17 are the same display too. ==== I own a HP 48 Gx for years and hopefully all the stuff I had in it is still intact. I haven't touched it for like 7 years and I quite forgot all I knew about it. Still I'd like to backup everything from my HP to my Win XP PC. I still have the hp <--> serial cord (that came with the serial interface kit which I never used so far ). I don't just have things in the HOME directory. I got things in the port 0, 2 & 3 (got a write protected 256KB expansion Card in port 2). Basically I'd like the simpliest way to back up everything in a painless way (and of course restore everything as is on request) So which programm would you recommend ? (I toyed with the PC connectivy kit but it doesn't give access to the ports). P.S. : I see that Mr Avenard is still posting in here. It's reassuring some things stay as they were :-) ==== Does anyone know where I can find an HP-48 program that solves for the roots of a cubic polynomial (i.e., X^3+aX^2+bX+c=0)? The only one I could find is a program called POLYN at the following web site: http://www.math.okstate.edu/archives/calcs/hp-progs.html. I downloaded the program into my HP-48GX with no problem using the PC serial interface cable. However, the documentation doesn't explain how to input the coefficients and the program user interface is nonexistent - no prompts for anything. If you've seen another program that actually works, I'd like to hear about it. John ==== > > Does anyone know where I can find an HP-48 program that solves for the roots > of a cubic polynomial (i.e., X^3+aX^2+bX+c=0)? The only one I could find is > a program called POLYN at the following web site: > http://www.math.okstate.edu/archives/calcs/hp-progs.html. I downloaded the > program into my HP-48GX with no problem using the PC serial interface cable. > However, the documentation doesn't explain how to input the coefficients and > the program user interface is nonexistent - no prompts for anything. If > you've seen another program that actually works, I'd like to hear about it. > > John > > If by chance you are talking about numeric roots and coefficients, there is a built-in command called PROOT which takes a VECTOR of the coefficients as argument and returns a VECTOR of roots of the polynomial. If you are talking about symbolic roots and coefficients, it seems that it would be quite easy to write a quick userrpl program that would do the work for you considering the algorithm would be the same for any cubic polynomial. Or am I missing something? -Al A. -- ~/.signature ==== You should go to www.hpcalc.org for anything you want for your HP. I really like NeoPolys for dealing with polinomys. Hope this helps. Luis ==== I'm looking into buying either one of these calculators. I was wondering if getting the 49G+ is worth paying an extra 40 dollars for? I know that the 49 has a bigger display and is faster, but other than that what is different? I don't know much about calculators, and I used a TI 83 for highschool. But my brother convinced me to get a HP. I got a 48GX for christmas but the screen broke 2-3 months after that, and now I am borrowing my other brothers TI 85. thanks russ ==== > I'm looking into buying either one of these calculators. I was > wondering if getting the 49G+ is worth paying an extra 40 dollars for? > I know that the 49 has a bigger display and is faster, but other than > that what is different? I don't know much about calculators, and I > used a TI 83 for highschool. But my brother convinced me to get a HP. > I got a 48GX for christmas but the screen broke 2-3 months after that, > and now I am borrowing my other brothers TI 85. I don't know how much faster it is but with the 49G+ you also get: 1-SD card reader 2-Flash Rom 3-512KB of RAM vs 128KB. Not really worth it if you ask me this 48GII ==== I have been a proud owner of a 42s & a 48gx. I typically use erable/alg48 but I continuously have to reload or cancel the app from running..... Regardless http:www.educalc.net has the HP49g+ for sale...(like $180 usd) Hopefully I will have good luck and will be able to post back in a week with a new family member. Qu1nn ==== I'm sorry to ask this question again that was answered already but I'm unable to find it anymore: I want to expand my 48g to 128kB (from 32kB obviously). There is a ZIP file around describing a PCB to add port memory but thats far to complex for me. The same file mentions a posting in which was described a much simpler upgrade of the main memory. Does anybody of you experts around still have this message or know how to upgrade this machine? Again sorry if I'm just too stupid to find it myself;(. Thomas ==== > > I'm sorry to ask this question again that was answered already but I'm > unable to find it anymore: I want to expand my 48g to 128kB (from 32kB > obviously). There is a ZIP file around describing a PCB to add port > memory but thats far to complex for me. The same file mentions a posting > in which was described a much simpler upgrade of the main memory. Does > anybody of you experts around still have this message or know how to > upgrade this machine? > > Again sorry if I'm just too stupid to find it myself;(. > > > Thomas Here is a cut and paste of an old message archived in my hp48 stuff. I really don't know If i'm right, but I think you only need to replace the 32k chip for 128k chip. ??? Check on hpcalc.org. I guess you could find good informations there. good luck opinions about the problems I have before posting that way. I added one IC to the G (took me 50 cents, this seems to get expensive ;-) ) and reenabled the internal 32K. The 128K are now connected to my G like a memory card to an GX. I turned on my G, merged the RAM and got (nearly) 160K free memory. WOW. Then I tried to fill that memory (large matrix object) ... BOOOOM. TRY TO RECOVER MEMORY ?. After that my G thought he has 256K, but I couldn't agree with that. I opened it again and searched for a mistake in my wiring but didn't find one (this doesn't mean there is none but keep on reading). So I started it again without merging the memory and did some backups to port one (this is my 128K chip now) and filled it step by step that way until it was nearly full (it's nice to back up your 32K more than once :-) ). There were no problems. I cleared the memory (ON-A-F - RECOVER? NO!) and did a restore from port 1 (a RAM card is not cleared that way) .. no problems. Everything is back again. This makes me thing the way I connected the RAM can't be very wrong. If anyone who knows more about the internals of the HP could please think about this: 1) My G has ROM version K (the very first one :-( ). The FAQ says this release never was in an GX and even the L version has some bugs about port mamangement. What are that bugs and may that be the reason for my problems? 2) The G(X) was never designed to have 32K base RAM and 128K port memory being merged. Do you think this is the reason? Maybe I should buy a second 128K chip and extend both to 128K? (I don't need that much memory but that shouldn't stop me...) Greetings, Thomas Start why is this in comp.sys.hp48?... If someone in Dallas reads this: if you have time and fun doing so, could (electronics, computer and such stuff) in your city? I'll spend one week there in July. End why is this in comp.sys.hp48?... megatel GmbH * Wiener Str. 3 * 28359 Bremen * Germany Voice: ++49-421-22095-0 FAX:++49-421-22095-16 32Kchip. I've read that this cannot be done at the 48G. (Can it be done on the 48SX ??) These are a lot of questions, but has anyone answers ??? -- /////////////////////////////////////////////// / Maurice Oude Tijdhof / / / /////////////////////////////////////////////// ==== > > I'm sorry to ask this question again that was answered already but I'm > unable to find it anymore: I want to expand my 48g to 128kB (from 32kB > obviously). There is a ZIP file around describing a PCB to add port > memory but thats far to complex for me. The same file mentions a posting > in which was described a much simpler upgrade of the main memory. Does > anybody of you experts around still have this message or know how to > upgrade this machine? > > Again sorry if I'm just too stupid to find it myself;(. > > > Thomas Sorry for the first post, here's is the right one...(taken somewhere on the web ???) Here's what I did to upgrade my HP48G's memory to 128k: 1)Unsolder the 32k smd RAM chip. 2)Solder a 128k smd in place, the extras pin solder points are already there. The HP48G automatically recognizes the 128k. If you stop here, you'll just have 128k RAM (acts like aGX). seems simple :) ==== > > here's is the right one...(taken somewhere on the web ???) [...] Thomas ==== I'm using an Hp48G+ (128K ram) with erable and some other libraries installed. There is around 26K of memory left and I would like to know If it may be a reason why I sometime get an insufficient memory error message. In fact my question is: Does the hp use the 128K of memory to run program or is it only storage. Can I use my calc with the 128k fully loaded ? jf ==== > > I'm using an Hp48G+ (128K ram) with erable and some other libraries > installed. > There is around 26K of memory left and I would like to know If it may > be a reason why I sometime get an insufficient memory error message. > In fact my question is: Does the hp use the 128K of memory to run > program or is it only storage. Can I use my calc with the 128k > fully loaded ? > > jf The 128k is all the memory you have. You have to share it between storage and execution. Worse, if you store in port, or use a library, the program may copy itself in an other part of the RAM to run. Although, most of the programs that run on the 48G+ have been designed to run on a 48G which had only 32k of RAM, so I guess you should be able to store still a couple of programs. Otherwise you can try to find yourself a cheap GX and a cheap memry card. So the 128k of the GX are only (mainly) for execution. Mine with Erable has 70k free. Or now the 49G can be had for cheap on ebay, erable being in ROM, you have 256k for execution. Be careful though as some of the early 49G were of very bad quality with easily scratched screen. Or if you have cash to spare, try to find the brand new 49G+ that should be like the 49G but so much better and faster. Try to identify which are the programs that produce the insufficient memory error and try to find some less hungry equivalents on hpcalc.org. If you have 32k free you should have very little problems. Finding the right SW package for your calc can be a long exercise but is worth it. Good luck Arnaud ==== Yeah that thurth, from time to time the system does a garbage recolection, I mean it frees the memory ocuped before by a program or library, like a PC uses RAM for his purpouses. But you can force it manually, executing his routine: << MEM DROP >> also you can deactivate the LAST STACK, LAST CMD and LAST ARG functions. see you later aligator! ==== In <1zo8b.4344$1x6.630459@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net> Arnaud Amiel > the memory you have. You have to share it between storage > and execution. Worse, if you store in port, or use a library, the > program may copy itself in an other part of the RAM to run This is extremely unlikely on the HP48G+. All programs will run in place when stored in PORT0 (the only one available in the 48G+) ==== > In <1zo8b.4344$1x6.630459@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net> Arnaud Amiel > the memory you have. You have to share it between storage > and execution. Worse, if you store in port, or use a library, the > program may copy itself in an other part of the RAM to run > > This is extremely unlikely on the HP48G+. All programs will run in place > when stored in PORT0 (the only one available in the 48G+) > Or unless they are written to do so, like compressed programs, STAT48- which I did uses this a lot. But thanks for rectifiyng my mistake. Arnaud ==== I was thinking of purchasing the HP 48G to replace my Sharp EL5120. I don't need the graphical features of the 48G but I require a calculator with a decent solver function where equations like : 78 * L * Sin 30 = 45 / (L * 6) can be solved without re-writting everything and more importantly can be saved latter for re-use. I also need variable names to be more than just 1 letter I.E. P1/V1*V2=P2 can be difficult to write when your limited to a single character. I would prefer the entry logic to be the same as you write it, IE not like RPN. Tony ==== You can probably expect several responses explaining why RPN is the entry logic you use to write. Is your question whether to purchase a 48G or a G+, or is it whether to purchase an HP at all? The solver examples you give seem well within the capabilities of either calc (except for that non-RPN part). Mitch > I was thinking of purchasing the HP 48G to replace my Sharp EL5120. I don't > need the graphical features of the 48G but I require a calculator with a > decent solver function where equations like : 78 * L * Sin 30 = 45 / (L * 6) > can be solved without re-writting everything and more importantly can be > saved latter for re-use. I also need variable names to be more than just 1 > letter I.E. P1/V1*V2=P2 can be difficult to write when your limited to a > single character. I would prefer the entry logic to be the same as you write > it, IE not like RPN. > Tony > > ==== > You can probably expect several responses explaining why RPN is the entry > logic you use to write. Exactly. When I was in grade school I was taught to write my sums as: 49 + 57 ---- Not (49 + 57) = ==== I would highly recommend the HP39/40G for your purposes. They are essentially the same, but for some minor differences. They both do exactly what you want, you can save each equation as its own aplet very easily, whereby you come back to it and just plug in the numbers. They are non-RPN, and even though I prefer it, you specifically asked about it. IF you want a non-RPN calc DO NOT go with the 48G, go with a 49G if you want an amazing calculator. I recommend getting a 39/40, do a little research, pick the one you want, and buy it. They fit your needs exactly(from what you've told us). As a bonus, they are cheap, so if it doesn't work out, you have no worries. I picked a 39g up for around US$35. Primary differences: HP39G: Infrared Port HP40G: Computer Algebra System(CAS) I would recommend the 40G if you are not a student, as the CAS is not allowed on standardized tests, whereas the IR port you can put tape over. The CAS on my 49G is great, if you need that sort of thing, which you probably do. > I was thinking of purchasing the HP 48G to replace my Sharp EL5120. I > don't > need the graphical features of the 48G but I require a calculator with a > decent solver function where equations like : 78 * L * Sin 30 = 45 / (L > * 6) > can be solved without re-writting everything and more importantly can be > saved latter for re-use. I also need variable names to be more than just > 1 > letter I.E. P1/V1*V2=P2 can be difficult to write when your limited to a > single character. I would prefer the entry logic to be the same as you > write > it, IE not like RPN. > Tony > > -- ==== Just wondering did the 39/40G or 48 do muiltable variables like V1, ME1 etc? Tony. > I would highly recommend the HP39/40G for your purposes. They are > essentially the same, but for some minor differences. They both do > exactly what you want, you can save each equation as its own aplet very > easily, whereby you come back to it and just plug in the numbers. They > are non-RPN, and even though I prefer it, you specifically asked about > it. IF you want a non-RPN calc DO NOT go with the 48G, go with a 49G if > you want an amazing calculator. I recommend getting a 39/40, do a little > research, pick the one you want, and buy it. They fit your needs > exactly(from what you've told us). As a bonus, they are cheap, so if it > doesn't work out, you have no worries. I picked a 39g up for around US$35. > > Primary differences: > HP39G: > Infrared Port > > HP40G: > Computer Algebra System(CAS) > > I would recommend the 40G if you are not a student, as the CAS is not > allowed on standardized tests, whereas the IR port you can put tape over. > The CAS on my 49G is great, if you need that sort of thing, which you > probably do. > > > > I was thinking of purchasing the HP 48G to replace my Sharp EL5120. I > don't > need the graphical features of the 48G but I require a calculator with a > decent solver function where equations like : 78 * L * Sin 30 = 45 / (L > * 6) > can be solved without re-writting everything and more importantly can be > saved latter for re-use. I also need variable names to be more than just > 1 > letter I.E. P1/V1*V2=P2 can be difficult to write when your limited to a > single character. I would prefer the entry logic to be the same as you > write > it, IE not like RPN. > Tony > > > > > > -- ==== Ummm, Ok, I guess it can't. I'm sorry I don't have the actual calc in my hand, as someone is borrowing it, but I was playing with the emulator and it does not seem to be able to do so. The 40G does support it in its CAS for manipulation, but does not in the solver. Links to the emulator are below if you want to try. The 48G and 49G DO support it, I have the calcs on hand to back it up. So for your case go for the 49G, unless you can sacrifice the variable names. The best option might be to wait for a month until the 49G+ is released (http://www.live-id.org/hp49gplus/) (some big pictures), and I want this calc, as it is many times over a better calculator, much faster. Though much more expensive as well. Quite frankly, I'm surprised that this feature is missing...the HP39/40G are based off the 38G, which is based off 48G, and 48/49G can have entire words as variables.... Page Link: http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/utilities.htm (Scroll down a bit) Direct Link: http://members.iinet.net.au/~ccroft/zipfiles/emulator.zip (3.2MB) > Just wondering did the 39/40G or 48 do muiltable variables like V1, ME1 > etc? > Tony. ==== Bah, just as a follow-up, you can check the manual if you want, specifically page 84. http://h20015.www2.hp.com/content/common/manuals/bpia5212/bpia5212.pdf (2.91 MB) I would recommend the 49G if you want these variable names (rather than just giving them two different characters), but it might take a bit of programming, or at least a bit of competency with the calc, to get what you want to be smooth. On a side note, the HP48 has a nice solver form, but it is slow. Also the calc is RPN. Going back to your origional question: the 48G has 32K memory, the G+ has 128K, the GX has 128K and is expandable (but it is not worth it to expand it, I have not expanded mine). The 49G has 1.5MB of storage space, so that gives the most bang for your buck. But go with the G+ or GX, as the price is pretty close to that of the G. Your choice: 48-Solver ap, but RPN 49-Command line solver (you would need to make a program to use it smoothly, but easy to apply) 39/40-Exactly what you want, but no long variable names (except in the CAS of the 40, but not quite what you want) ==== > I was thinking of purchasing the HP 48G to replace my Sharp EL5120. I don't > need the graphical features of the 48G but I require a calculator with a > decent solver function where equations like : 78 * L * Sin 30 = 45 / (L * 6) > can be solved without re-writting everything and more importantly can be > saved latter for re-use. I also need variable names to be more than just 1 > letter I.E. P1/V1*V2=P2 can be difficult to write when your limited to a > single character. I would prefer the entry logic to be the same as you write > it, IE not like RPN. > Tony > > Actually, the HP48 series DO allow algebraic entry! You simple put a tick (') at the beginning (and end) of your entry, and then type in the expression. You can save that expression as a variable, and it can call any number of variables. the algebraic expression can also be in a program, and can use either local or global variables. So yes, you can work without the RPN in a 48. The 48G has 32k memory, the others have 128k. But why not get another Old Sharp? Bill ==== I want to concatenate two Library Data objects, that is: 2: LIBDAT XXXXX AA...AA 1: LIBDAT YYYYY BB...BB CONCATENATE -> 1: LIBDAT XXXXX+YYYYY-5 AA...AABB...BB The problem is that the Library Data objects are both approx. 40kb, and I want to do the concatenation with 120kb of free memory (both cards are write-protected). I don't have too much experience with fooling around in the Temporary Memory area to do this myself. Could someone help me? Simon ==== > I want to concatenate two Library Data objects, that is: > The problem is that the Library Data objects are both approx. 40kb, > and I want to do the concatenation with 120kb of free memory (both > cards are write-protected). I think it should work if you use the SysRPL entry !append$ (no quotes, obviously). According to Carsten's DB it does &$, and if that fails tries appending in place. I don't have time to test it at the moment though, be careful... - Thomas -- foo and bar, respectively. ==== > I want to concatenate two Library Data objects As Thomas has told you, !append$ should work. Keep in mind though, that the resulting library data will not follow HP's convention: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=7fcf10a1.0205100248.2cfba548%40posting. google.com ==== I heard that the present 48 series is being discontinued. Is this true? ==== > I heard that the present 48 series is being discontinued. Is this true? > Yes! The new HP 48GII is a totally different beast, but it will run your UserRPL commands and many of the 49G libraries work. I vote for this NG name to changed to comp.sys.hp48gII ==== I am looking for HP-48 programming documentation. The HP48 AUR seems to be hard to find. Is there a .pdf e-copy of the HP48GX Advanced User's Reference available anywhere on the Web ? ==== not (yet) ==== There's a acanned copy of the User's Guide at hpcalc.org. The AUR is being sold at calcpro.com, among others. > not (yet) ==== I am looking for a program that will divde a larger fraction measurement into a smaller fraction scale ( example - life model is 6 feet 2 inches and 1/512 of an inch - reduce to a scale model of 22 inches and 1/128 of an inch - the division would give a decimal series of numbers - These numbers would be multiplied by the measurements taken on the actual life model to get the reduction scale model size for the equivelent part. The fraction measurements need to be turned into decimals from say a foot,inch,1/16 down to 1/1024 to a decimal / reduce the decimal to scale / change it back into a fraction in the reduced scale answer. The additional issue is to be able to tag these measurements so they can be specific to a page and item on the page that represents a specific measurement = PG.3, E, the most posterior occipital protuberence to the center glabella ; PG.3 L, the most anterior supercilliary arch at browline center frontal to the occipital promenence most posterior ; PG.528, C, ....... and so on. The last issue is to name these measurements to a specific project: Marie - life model - for sculpture of minerva; Marie - life model for beginner figure sculpture class I had a program on the 48GX written to do all this and to down load the info onto my desktop into a Microsoft excel sheet. The 48GX lost power and lost the program, and the computor got corrupted. Is there a program out there that will do all or part of this? I am willing to purchase a 49G+ when it's out if it will handle this ==== If you understand the title line, then possibly you can help... I'm trying to get my laptop to talk to my HP48GX using ZOC (4.11) under OS/2. This should work, and I was able to get the laptop to think that it was sending a text file to the HP48 but no file was actually sent. The Com port on the laptop (IBM Thinkpad 600E) is turned on, but I keep getting an error that CTS is not set.. Anyone out there got any ideas? Geoff ==== > The Com port on the laptop (IBM Thinkpad 600E) is turned on, but I > keep getting an error that CTS is not set.. > > Anyone out there got any ideas? Turn off hardware handshaking? Al ==== > > The Com port on the laptop (IBM Thinkpad 600E) is turned on, but I > keep getting an error that CTS is not set.. > > Anyone out there got any ideas? > > Turn off hardware handshaking? It complains whatever I do: set or clear... Geoff ==== I thought about making one myself, but are not that good with batch files, mine would have been less rich of features. I found the error I've made in a very strange place, at least for me since I have only limited experience with OS:es outside of Windows and Dos. I never realised that there could be a difference between -h and -H in DOS!!! I previously used SLOAD -h ..... and by using SLOAD -H ..... it works. /Rickard Haake ==== Where can I get an HP 48GX repaired? I can't find anything on the HP site. ==== > Where can I get an HP 48GX repaired? > I can't find anything on the HP site. http://h20015.www2.hp.com/en/siteHome.jhtml?reg=nam&cc=us&lc=en&pagetype=sit ehome $105 to fix it plus shipping. I just decided to buy the 49G+. Hope this helps. ==== Are there any Modbus communication programs that function with a hp48sx? I'm trying to develop something for my hp48sx that will make it useful as a handheld terminal for modbus protocol RTU's such as Scadapak. ==== I have a variable V=[(1;1) (2;2) (3;3)] in calculator memory. Why I can not with HP49 to EVAL the following expression as I can with HP48G? 'Sommation symbol(I=1;3;CONJ(V(I)))' The HP49 answer is CAS internal error My HP49 ROM is 1.18. ==== > I have a variable V=[(1;1) (2;2) (3;3)] in calculator memory. Why I > can not with HP49 to EVAL the following expression as I can with > HP48G? > 'Sommation symbol(I=1;3;CONJ(V(I)))' > The HP49 answer is CAS internal error > My HP49 ROM is 1.18. My HP49 ROM is 1.19-6 and the answer is (6,;-6,) { I have changed the mode to ALG & FM , } You need a new ROM...it is nice to have a flashable ROM (-: ==== > I have a variable V=[(1;1) (2;2) (3;3)] in calculator memory. Why I > can not with HP49 to EVAL the following expression as I can with > HP48G? > 'Sommation symbol(I=1;3;CONJ(V(I)))' > The HP49 answer is CAS internal error > My HP49 ROM is 1.18. Works for me (1.19-6) However, I have to specify commas instead of semis (no, I don't use comma as a fraction mark) Werner ==== On my hp49, I tried to factor '27*x^6-1', but the result was wrong The factored form, factored in either real exact or real complex modes, multiplied out to give '81*x^6 - 3'. Is this a known error, and if so, what can be done to avoid it? I am using 1.19-3. ==== > On my hp49, I tried to factor '27*x^6-1', but the result was wrong > > The factored form, factored in either real exact or real complex > modes, multiplied out to give '81*x^6 - 3'. > > Is this a known error, and if so, what can be done to avoid it? > > I am using 1.19-3. Why not using the latest ROM for start? The result I got on my 49 is definitely correct. ==== > On my hp49, I tried to factor '27*x^6-1', but the result was wrong > > The factored form, factored in either real exact or real complex > modes, multiplied out to give '81*x^6 - 3'. > > Is this a known error, and if so, what can be done to avoid it? > > I am using 1.19-3. > > Why not using the latest ROM for start? > The result I got on my 49 is definitely correct. > I would use the latest if I had access to a computer which would let me load it, but I only have an old tired Mac. ==== X > Why not using the latest ROM for start? > The result I got on my 49 is definitely correct. > > > I would use the latest if I had access to a computer which would let > me load it, but I only have an old tired Mac. You need to have one old (tired?) friend to be ROMUPLOADed ==== > On my hp49, I tried to factor '27*x^6-1', but the result was wrong > > The factored form, factored in either real exact or real complex > modes, multiplied out to give '81*x^6 - 3'. > > Is this a known error, and if so, what can be done to avoid it? > > I am using 1.19-3. On my 40G (comparable to 49G CAS 1.19-1)it gives the right answer in complex mode, but fails in real mode as you described above (additional factor of 3 included in the result). Greetings Axel ==== > On my hp49, I tried to factor '27*x^6-1', but the result was wrong > > The factored form, factored in either real exact or real complex > modes, multiplied out to give '81*x^6 - 3'. > > Is this a known error, and if so, what can be done to avoid it? > > I am using 1.19-3. with 1.19-6 the result is correct - Mind the '/3' at the very right end. Werner ==== >> Why not using the latest ROM for start? >> The result I got on my 49 is definitely correct. >> > >I would use the latest if I had access to a computer which would let me >load it, but I only have an old tired Mac. By an old, tired Mac I assume you mean one that has serial ports? In which case it is perfect for upgrading the ROM. Just use a suitable terminal emulator program such as ZTerm. -- Bruce Horrocks Surrey England ==== Is it possible to convert the USB connection to serial RS232? At work I am currently using windows terminal with the following settings to connect to a weighing device (windows terminal / no handshake / 19200 baud / 2 stop bits / 1 start bit / 8 data bits / nonparity). Is this possible with the HP48GX? (ignoring the USB converter part!) Qu1nn ==== > Is it possible to convert the USB connection to serial RS232? > > At work I am currently using windows terminal with the following > settings to connect to a weighing device (windows terminal / no > handshake / 19200 baud / 2 stop bits / 1 start bit / 8 data bits / > nonparity). > > Is this possible with the HP48GX? (ignoring the USB converter part!) It should work but the maximum baudrate supported by the HP48GX is 9600 baud, 1 stop bit, 1 start bit ==== Can anyone in the know please state definitively whether or not the 49G+ can print to the HP IR printer out of the box? -- Mike R. ==== Mike R. schrieb: > Can anyone in the know please state definitively whether or not the > 49G+ can print to the HP IR printer out of the box? > > > -- Mike R. Yes, you must only set the correct translation (function OLDPRT as for the HP48). The IR-device is also supporting IRDA for PC/notebooks, you can use the old connectivity program from HP48/49 (but only upto 9600 baud). Stefan ==== Yes, you must definitely take the printer out of the box before printing to it. The IR will not pass through the cardboard. ;) > Can anyone in the know please state definitively whether or not the > 49G+ can print to the HP IR printer out of the box? > > > -- Mike R. ==== > Mike R. schrieb: > >> Can anyone in the know please state definitively whether or not the >> 49G+ can print to the HP IR printer out of the box? >> >> >> -- Mike R. > > Yes, you must only set the correct translation (function OLDPRT as for > the HP48). No. The OLDPRT command is for use with the 82240A printer. Actually, the remapping string that it generates for the 82240A leaves a bit to be desired. If you want to print to an 82240B but have executed OLDPRT, then edit IOPAR, changing the second element from the long remap string to an empty string, -- James ==== Yes, I did it thru the IO menu and it was really fast! !Demeter! ==== > > I am very sure they will not support any other OS than Windows. They did > not with the previous versions of their calcs so why should they support > it with the new ones? > > Perhaps they didn't support it directly, but at least previous calc was > using a well documented serial protocol. USB world seems to be very > different (my usb cable and Connx still don't work). Let's say they used standard serial protocols, that is right. > Which protocol is used on the USB connection? Perhaps they use a > standard format like some digital still cameras do. In this case you can > simply plug the calc in and copy files to the PC. > > Who knows? At least, they could public all the specs for the protocol. Do you have a 49g+? If yes did you try to connect with linux? If it didn't work could you say what kernel configuration you have? What is lsusb telling you? and what is cat /proc/bus/usb/devices telling you? > As an example, HP iPAQ devices are Windows PocketPC devices, and > about these devices to make the task easier. See their website: > > http://www.handhelds.org And they made the printing driver hpijs - I know about those projects. But printers and iPAQs are mass products and these calcs are rare (at least in germany). I am sure I will not find it in any store in the town were I live but I will find iPAQs and printers ;-) > SD, another close and propietary system. Of course, there is still MMC, > and as far as I know MMC can be read if SD can be read. *grin* Well my digital camera uses CF... And I will not buy another camera without CF. And - why are all the big camera companies going to use CF in the bigger models now? Even Sony uses CF-Cards alternativly to their MS at their newest camera. > At least for the ROM-update they will have a own protocol and so you > will not be able to upgrade the calc without win. As it was on the 49g. > > As you say, you can use the SD card, and maybe it is not as hard to update > from the SD card ;-) This maybe :-) But we do not know till now. > Perhaps JYA knows the protocol, but perhaps JYA is not the owner of it. If > the device has been developped by Kinpo Inc., almost sure that Kinpo has > developed the usb connection protocol and driver for their device, so it > drivers. Well. If you ask me Kinpo Inc. does manufacture the new hp calcs but JYA does the developement of these calcs with a small engineering bureau. Do you remember JYA telling us he stopped working at hp and is going to start a new project wich we will see sometime? I am nearly sure this new hp calc is developed by the same team as the HP49, the team formerly known as ACO. So JYA may know about the USB protocol if they did not buy this part from another company. But they will exclusivly sold the rights to use this protocol to hp and so he cannot tell us anything without agreement by hp. What I am really interested in is what is about the new ROM versions? Are there also new versions for the HP49G? Is the ROM the same as for the 49G+? Maybe they have an emulator for the Saturn CPU and the ROM ist still compatible to the old HP49G. But how does USB work? And IR? And SD? And the bigger display? Questions over questions... > These kind of efforts (�stupid idiot spending time hacking linux > dirvers�) have made some marvellous things available. For example, if > some �stupid idiots� hadn't spent their time hacking hp48 OS, we ... we would not even think about a free unix but we have BSD and Matthias -- mbunte@gmx.net ==== > Do you have a 49g+? If yes did you try to connect with linux? If it > didn't work could you say what kernel configuration you have? What is > lsusb telling you? and what is cat /proc/bus/usb/devices telling you? This is /var/log/messages/ on my Debian Woody machine with hp49g+ connected and disconnected: Sep 8 09:44:42 Coruscant kernel: hub.c: USB new device connect on bus1/2, assigned device number 3 Sep 8 09:44:42 Coruscant kernel: usb.c: USB device 3 (vend/prod 0x3f0/0x121) is not claimed by any active driver. Sep 8 09:44:49 Coruscant usb.agent: ... no modules for USB product 3f0/121/100 Sep 8 09:48:05 Coruscant kernel: usb.c: USB disconnect on device 3 Sep 8 09:48:08 Coruscant kernel: hub.c: USB new device connect on bus1/2, assigned device number 4 Sep 8 09:48:08 Coruscant kernel: usb.c: USB device 4 (vend/prod 0x3f0/0x121) is not claimed by any active driver. Sep 8 09:48:14 Coruscant usb.agent: ... no modules for USB product 3f0/121/100 Sep 8 09:53:19 Coruscant kernel: usb.c: USB disconnect on device 4 About my usb modules loaded: Coruscant:/home/jsmanrique# lsmod | grep usb usbmouse 1760 0 (unused) usbnet 7208 0 (unused) usbserial 17856 0 [ipaq] usb-storage 97120 0 (unused) usbkbd 2848 0 (unused) input 3040 0 [usbmouse hid mousedev keybdev usbkbd] usb-uhci 20676 0 (unused) usbcore 48000 1 [usbmouse usbnet ipaq usbserial usb-storage hid usbkbd usb-uhci] And seeing /proc/bus/usb/devices T: Bus=01 Lev=01 Prnt=01 Port=01 Cnt=02 Dev#= 6 Spd=12 MxCh= 0 D: Ver= 1.10 Cls=ff(vend.) Sub=00 Prot=00 MxPS= 8 #Cfgs= 1 P: Vendor=03f0 ProdID=0121 Rev= 1.00 S: Manufacturer=HP Company S: Product=HPx9G+ Device C:* #Ifs= 1 Cfg#= 1 Atr=80 MxPwr= 50mA I: If#= 0 Alt= 0 #EPs= 2 Cls=ff(vend.) Sub=00 Prot=00 Driver=(none) E: Ad=81(I) Atr=02(Bulk) MxPS= 64 Ivl= 0ms E: Ad=03(O) Atr=02(Bulk) MxPS= 64 Ivl= 0ms >> SD, another close and propietary system. Of course, there is still MMC, >> and as far as I know MMC can be read if SD can be read. I tested my 32MB MMC card from my camera (that uses SD too), and it works perfectly. > This maybe :-) But we do not know till now. iPAQs :-) > Well. If you ask me Kinpo Inc. does manufacture the new hp calcs but JYA > does the developement of these calcs with a small engineering bureau. Do > you remember JYA telling us he stopped working at hp and is going to > start a new project wich we will see sometime? I am nearly sure this > new hp calc is developed by the same team as the HP49, the team formerly > known as ACO. Maybe, but if should be �easier� to let Kinpo Inc. develop all the hardware and comunication protocols for its device, and JYA and the �small engineering bureau� could concentrate its effort on the software running on that device and using the comunication protocols developped by Kinpo. > So JYA may know about the USB protocol if they did not buy this part > from another company. But they will exclusivly sold the rights to use > this protocol to hp and so he cannot tell us anything without agreement > by hp. > What I am really interested in is what is about the new ROM versions? Me too! > Are there also new versions for the HP49G? Is the ROM the same as for > the 49G+? Maybe they have an emulator for the Saturn CPU and the ROM ist > still compatible to the old HP49G. But how does USB work? And IR? And > SD? And the bigger display? Questions over questions... Yes, those kind of questions that can turn mad any geek :-) --- J.Manrique L.97pez de la Fuente Users Club from Gij.97n 1077 HPCC Member ==== I just noticed, that my new HP 49G+ has only 127 K memory in port 1 according to the filer and Pvars, whereas the HP49G has 255 K. Is this normal or do I have a buggy calc? TIA, Mathias -- Mathias Habel mathias.habel_no-spam_@t-online.de Remove _no-spam_ before replying ==== > > I just noticed, that my new HP 49G+ has only 127 K memory in port 1 Normal=127K > according to the filer and Pvars, whereas the HP49G has 255 K. Is this Buggy=report of 255K > normal or do I have a buggy calc? Yes > TIA, NPV > Mathias akkeP-ileV ==== > normal or do I have a buggy calc? > Yes Which is it? 8-) Tom Lake ==== [...] >> I just noticed, that my new HP 49G+ has only 127 K memory in port 1 >Normal=127K If I understand right, that means, that HPs specifikation of 512 K RAM for the HP49G+ is wrong, as 256 + 128 = 384, but not 512 K. But anyway, thanks for your answer. Mathias -- Mathias Habel mathias.habel_no-spam_@t-online.de Remove _no-spam_ before replying ==== > > normal or do I have a buggy calc? > Yes > > Which is it? 8-) It is normal to have a buggy calc. (-; ==== I just bought a SD card for my 49g+ and I was wondering if I can use it to send a file from one PC to another. I read in this forum that the calc can't write huge files in the SD because that file must be first in RAM. But, is there a way to do it with small files under 128kb? I sent a picture to my calc, then I got it back to my PC and it had a HPHP49... header. I edited it to remove the header and the file got corrupted. Is there a program to remove correctly that header? Jorge Cevallos ==== Have just got hold of a HP49G+ in Denmark with SrNo: cn33109553 It has clear keyboard problems for '^2' and '0'. In both cases the keys work ok if you press from the left. Pressing from the right gives a much greater possibility of error (the key clicks, but not counted as input). This *must* be one of the reasons why Hp are delaying the release in the US. Maybe they thought they could fix it via sw, but its not proving so easy. I'm still glad I've got it - the extra time spent checking inputs will be easily gained back given the speed increases on the HP49G+. Hopefully I just have to sit back and wait for the corrected model to be launched, and then get a replacement. I do not see that they could release this worldwide without fixing the keyboard; especially since it will be especially problematic for RPN input. Dave ==== > Have just got hold of a HP49G+ in Denmark with SrNo: > cn33109553 > > It has clear keyboard problems for '^2' and '0'. In both cases the keys work > ok if you press from the left. Pressing from the right gives a much greater > possibility of error (the key clicks, but not counted as input). > > This *must* be one of the reasons why Hp are delaying the release in the US. > Maybe they thought they could fix it via sw, but its not proving so easy. > > I'm still glad I've got it - the extra time spent checking inputs will be > easily gained back given the speed increases on the HP49G+. Hopefully I just > have to sit back and wait for the corrected model to be launched, and then > get a replacement. > > I do not see that they could release this worldwide without fixing the > keyboard; especially since it will be especially problematic for RPN input. > Just press a little firmer and it will be ok ==== Yeah, I know. Its just annoying, I can just see my sweaty (and sometimes shakey) fingers not being able to do just that at exam time. Still I'm not complaining - the things just so fast (and better display) than the G. Dave > Have just got hold of a HP49G+ in Denmark with SrNo: > cn33109553 > > It has clear keyboard problems for '^2' and '0'. In both cases the keys > work > ok if you press from the left. Pressing from the right gives a much > greater > possibility of error (the key clicks, but not counted as input). > > This *must* be one of the reasons why Hp are delaying the release in the > US. > Maybe they thought they could fix it via sw, but its not proving so easy. > > I'm still glad I've got it - the extra time spent checking inputs will be > easily gained back given the speed increases on the HP49G+. Hopefully I > just > have to sit back and wait for the corrected model to be launched, and then > get a replacement. > > I do not see that they could release this worldwide without fixing the > keyboard; especially since it will be especially problematic for RPN > input. > > Just press a little firmer and it will be ok > > ==== Where in Denmark did you buy it? Mads Dave h skrev i en meddelelse > Have just got hold of a HP49G+ in Denmark with SrNo: > cn33109553 > > It has clear keyboard problems for '^2' and '0'. In both cases the keys work > ok if you press from the left. Pressing from the right gives a much greater > possibility of error (the key clicks, but not counted as input). > > This *must* be one of the reasons why Hp are delaying the release in the US. > Maybe they thought they could fix it via sw, but its not proving so easy. > > I'm still glad I've got it - the extra time spent checking inputs will be > easily gained back given the speed increases on the HP49G+. Hopefully I just > have to sit back and wait for the corrected model to be launched, and then > get a replacement. > > I do not see that they could release this worldwide without fixing the > keyboard; especially since it will be especially problematic for RPN input. > > Dave > > ==== In the DTU bookshop. But they only had 3. Dave > > Where in Denmark did you buy it? > > Mads > > Dave h skrev i en meddelelse > Have just got hold of a HP49G+ in Denmark with SrNo: > cn33109553 > > It has clear keyboard problems for '^2' and '0'. In both cases the keys > work > ok if you press from the left. Pressing from the right gives a much > greater > possibility of error (the key clicks, but not counted as input). > > This *must* be one of the reasons why Hp are delaying the release in the > US. > Maybe they thought they could fix it via sw, but its not proving so easy. > > I'm still glad I've got it - the extra time spent checking inputs will be > easily gained back given the speed increases on the HP49G+. Hopefully I > just > have to sit back and wait for the corrected model to be launched, and then > get a replacement. > > I do not see that they could release this worldwide without fixing the > keyboard; especially since it will be especially problematic for RPN > input. > > Dave > > > > ==== > Have just got hold of a HP49G+ in Denmark with SrNo: > cn33109553 How much did you pay? I've ordered one from www.samsoncables.com and it is supposed to be shipped on friday october 17th. The price there is USD 160, which is around DKK 1440,- including shipping and taxes. With these keyboard problems of yours I would contact the DTU shop for a replacement model. (Denmark) ==== Same here, ordered from Samson's Cable, wondering if i'm just not gonna go get a Ti89 and forget about this whole waiting .... > > Have just got hold of a HP49G+ in Denmark with SrNo: > cn33109553 > > How much did you pay? I've ordered one from www.samsoncables.com and > it is supposed to be shipped on friday october 17th. The price there > is USD 160, which is around DKK 1440,- including shipping and taxes. > > With these keyboard problems of yours I would contact the DTU shop for > a replacement model. > > (Denmark) ==== Personally I would be quite insulted to find that my country was being used as a filter for defective product in order to prevent the US from getting the crappy product first. Surely this theory cannot be true... -Al A. > Have just got hold of a HP49G+ in Denmark with SrNo: > cn33109553 > > It has clear keyboard problems for '^2' and '0'. In both cases the keys work > ok if you press from the left. Pressing from the right gives a much greater > possibility of error (the key clicks, but not counted as input). > > This *must* be one of the reasons why Hp are delaying the release in the US. > Maybe they thought they could fix it via sw, but its not proving so easy. > > I'm still glad I've got it - the extra time spent checking inputs will be > easily gained back given the speed increases on the HP49G+. Hopefully I just > have to sit back and wait for the corrected model to be launched, and then > get a replacement. > > I do not see that they could release this worldwide without fixing the > keyboard; especially since it will be especially problematic for RPN input. > > Dave > > -- ~/.signature ==== > Personally I would be quite insulted to find that my country was being > used as a filter for defective product in order to prevent the US from > getting the crappy product first. Surely this theory cannot be true... Well, Al, all people쳋ay not agree: I for sure. I feel priviledged to get the calc earlier !!! The Yankees just have to wait...and wait... and... The kb is ok if you just press firmly. The previous 48 model light touch is gone, but it's better than the old 39/40/49 rubber band feedback ==== > Same here, ordered from Samson's Cable, wondering if i'm just not gonna go > get a Ti89 and forget about this whole waiting .... Why not get both? Then you an be a Rosetta Stone in the calculator world! Tom Lake People who go to see a psychiatrist ought to have their head examined! ==== I would not ming getting a defective version to try it out and then get an updated release later on Lol, at least i won't be talking about a ghot calc ..... > Personally I would be quite insulted to find that my country was being > used as a filter for defective product in order to prevent the US from > getting the crappy product first. Surely this theory cannot be true... > > Well, Al, all people쳋ay not agree: I for sure. > I feel priviledged to get the calc earlier !!! > The Yankees just have to wait...and wait... and... > > The kb is ok if you just press firmly. > The previous 48 model light touch is gone, > but it's better than the old 39/40/49 rubber band feedback > > ==== They could only get 3. It cost DKr1700 - but it doesnt get sent out of the country for replacement. Dave > > Have just got hold of a HP49G+ in Denmark with SrNo: > cn33109553 > > How much did you pay? I've ordered one from www.samsoncables.com and > it is supposed to be shipped on friday october 17th. The price there > is USD 160, which is around DKK 1440,- including shipping and taxes. > > With these keyboard problems of yours I would contact the DTU shop for > a replacement model. > > (Denmark) ==== >Personally I would be quite insulted to find that my country was being >used as a filter for defective product in order to prevent the US from >getting the crappy product first. Surely this theory cannot be true... > >-Al A. > > >> Have just got hold of a HP49G+ in Denmark with SrNo: >> cn33109553 >> >> It has clear keyboard problems for '^2' and '0'. In both cases the keys work >> ok if you press from the left. Pressing from the right gives a much greater >> possibility of error (the key clicks, but not counted as input). >> >> This *must* be one of the reasons why Hp are delaying the release in the US. >> Maybe they thought they could fix it via sw, but its not proving so easy. >> >> I'm still glad I've got it - the extra time spent checking inputs will be >> easily gained back given the speed increases on the HP49G+. Hopefully I just >> have to sit back and wait for the corrected model to be launched, and then >> get a replacement. >> >> I do not see that they could release this worldwide without fixing the >> keyboard; especially since it will be especially problematic for RPN input. >> >> Dave >> >> After Enron, and WorldCom nothing would surprise me any more. Even at our University, after travel cutbacks for presentation of research at The American Physical Society meeting,as an example, etc. After being asked to cut back on equipment purchases, the administration gave themselves raises. Harold A. Climer Dept.Of Physics, Geology, and Astronomy U.T Chattanooga Chattanooga TN USA ==== I have just received a 49G+ and can not see how I can get it to display commas as thousands separators. Any help would be appreciated. Peter Nicoll ==== > I have just received a 49G+ and can not see how I can get it to display > commas as thousands separators. > > Any help would be appreciated. > [MODE] press down-arrow to go to the Number Format CHOOSe Fix and any suitable number of decimals (2 for business) Press ENTER to accept the changes key in 1234567.89 [ENTER] then key in 1200 [SPC] 1200[ . ] [ENTER] Only floating point numbers in fixed mode will display thousand separator(s). ==== Many thanks. Having been an HP15C and 95LX user since they respectively came out, this is a key feature which aides readability. I am however sorry that the commas do not appear as the numbers are entered, which is what I am used to on the earlier calculators. Peter > I have just received a 49G+ and can not see how I can get it to display > commas as thousands separators. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > [MODE] press down-arrow to go to the Number Format > CHOOSe Fix and any suitable number of decimals (2 for business) > Press ENTER to accept the changes > key in 1234567.89 [ENTER] > then key in 1200 [SPC] 1200[ . ] [ENTER] > Only floating point numbers in fixed mode > will display thousand separator(s). > > ==== > I have just received a 49G+ and can not see how I can get it to display > commas as thousands separators. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Peter Nicoll You can have it in FIX mode. Press Mode, go to Number Format and press '+/-' until FIX appears, press OK. You will see all reals (not integers) with commas as thousands separators. I hope I helped you Jorge Cevallos ==== > I have just received a 49G+ and can not see > how I can get it to display commas as > thousands separators. It only does that in FIX mode, not STD mode. -Joe- ==== Joseph K. Horn schrieb im Newsbeitrag > I have just received a 49G+ and can not see > how I can get it to display commas as > thousands separators. > > It only does that in FIX mode, not STD mode. I rememember, it was different on 48-series, where a flag was available? I know it is the same on the 49, but seems to be not the reference. ..Heiko ==== > > Joseph K. Horn schrieb im Newsbeitrag > > I have just received a 49G+ and can not see > > how I can get it to display commas as > > thousands separators. > > It only does that in FIX mode, not STD mode. > > I rememember, it was different on 48-series, where a > flag was available? > I know it is the same on the 49, > but seems to be not the reference. > total recall is needed badly: STD no do , ==== www.educalc.net are shipping the hp49g+ as of today. They are based in Singapore and ship via Fedex - 1 day to Australia, 2 days to New Zealand. Great service! - Tony ==== > www.educalc.net are shipping the hp49g+ as of today. They are > based in Singapore and ship via Fedex - 1 day to Australia, 2 > days to New Zealand. Great service! If you try to order one, in the description is written: Included in the package: Calculator with a slide-on cover; I thought there was a leather case ? Does Educalc have different models ? -- Thomas Deniau Unix is user friendly. It's just selective when choosing friends. ==== +----------------------------------------------+ | Fri, 12.9.03 06:31 a.m. +1200 (NZT) | +----------------------------------------------+ in message ID <1g14vn2.8tysujf0jb9cN%thomas-ml@deniau.org> : > > www.educalc.net are shipping the hp49g+ as of today. They > are based in Singapore and ship via Fedex - 1 day to > Australia, 2 days to New Zealand. Great service! > > If you try to order one, in the description is written: > Included in the package: Calculator with a slide-on cover; Looks like the HP49G description. Web page needs updating. > I thought there was a leather case ? Does Educalc have > different models ? Yes, the hp49g+ case is leather. Educalc have hp49g+ models in the blister-pack packaging. -- Tony Hutchins Wellington New Zealand ==== a direction or same for download this , thanks response me to luis.suarez@correo.de PD excuseme but english is not my mother language ==== It seems that HP won't release any 49+ emulator because they are fixing the ROM. Just wait & see. --Julien Meyer Luis Fernando Suarez Harasic a .8ecrit dans le > a direction or same for download this , thanks > response me to luis.suarez@correo.de > > PD excuseme but english is not my mother language ==== My question is: Is the 49g+ good for Beginners who never had before a graphing calculator or should I buy a TI-89 or a Voyage 200? A dealer said that the TI is better to learn, than the HP. The other dealer said that both are difficult to learn. Who has right? ==== > My question is: > Is the 49g+ good for Beginners who never had before a graphing calculator or > should I buy a TI-89 or a Voyage 200? > A dealer said that the TI is better to learn, than the HP. The other dealer > said that both are difficult to learn. > Who has right? Suppose the dealer who says that the TI-89 is easier to learn is correct. Think about if that is something that is important to you. Do you really want to make a decision on an expensive and powerful device based on how easy it will be to learn? This is an aspect of operation that will only affect you for the first week or two that you own it! Make your decision based on which one is easier to *use* once you've learned it! I would say that RPN is easier to use than Algebraic, hence I would advocate the HP49G+. But this is without knowing what you will be using it *for*! Of course, if you speak only German, then the HP49G+ may be *impossible* to learn, which is a whole different issue. :D -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== > My question is: > > Is the 49g+ good for Beginners who never had before a graphing calculator or > should I buy a TI-89 or a Voyage 200? > A dealer said that the TI is better to learn, than the HP. The other dealer > said that both are difficult to learn. > > Who has right? In general, the HP49G(+) is more difficult to learn. If you're used to RPN (Reverse Polish Notation), go for the HP, otherwise go for the TI. -- Bhuvanesh ==== > My question is: > > Is the 49g+ good for Beginners who never had before a graphing calculator or > should I buy a TI-89 or a Voyage 200? > A dealer said that the TI is better to learn, than the HP. The other dealer > said that both are difficult to learn. > > Who has right? You are asking this on a HP group, do you and expect to get an unbiased response? :-) The TI is probably quicker to learn - but learning the basics of both won't take very long. If you're going to spend the money you want the best one for you in the *long term*. A while ago I did some basic tutorials that show how to do stuff step by step on the HP49G/G+. You can find them at http://alpage.ath.cx/hptute/ when my PC is on, if its not then try http://everest.fit.qut.edu.au/~n4403584/hptute.zip for a slightly older version. There are heaps of screenshots, so follow the examples to see if you like the HP or not. Don't worry if you hate RPN - the HP starts in algebraic mode by default (works like a TI) so you don't need to turn RPN on unless you want to. > Hope this helps, Al ==== > My question is: > > Is the 49g+ good for Beginners who never had before a graphing calculator or > should I buy a TI-89 or a Voyage 200? > A dealer said that the TI is better to learn, than the HP. The other dealer > said that both are difficult to learn. > > Who has right? > View this link (Spanish) excuse my english, I`m chilean. Comparison ti89 vs hp49G (not 49g+) http://www.ate.cl/home/comp.htm Bye. ==== Modern calcs come also with algebraic options as HP49. It seems that the dealer does not know about it. [] CM > My question is: > > Is the 49g+ good for Beginners who never had before a graphing calculator or > should I buy a TI-89 or a Voyage 200? > A dealer said that the TI is better to learn, than the HP. The other dealer > said that both are difficult to learn. > > Who has right? > ==== I think the dealer know this. But is it difficult to find some function in the menues or not. Is it too difficult for a Swiss if the menues are in English? > Modern calcs come also with algebraic options as HP49. > It seems that the dealer does not know about it. > > > [] > > CM > > > > My question is: > > Is the 49g+ good for Beginners who never had before a graphing calculator or > should I buy a TI-89 or a Voyage 200? > A dealer said that the TI is better to learn, than the HP. The other dealer > said that both are difficult to learn. > > Who has right? > ==== > I think the dealer know this. But is it difficult to find some function in > the menues or not. Is it too difficult for a Swiss if the menues are in > English? Not at all! after a short period of learning you get used to the vocabulary in the calculator. The english we learn at school is absolutely sufficient to understand the whole calculator. The main reason why I bought the hp 49g+ was, that I wanted to use RPN. In school the whole class bought a hp 32sII and we were getting used to it for 4 years. I can't work on a calculator without RPN anymore, because i think it's so disturbing using brackets to enter an expression! Hope I helped Thomas ==== > Modern calcs come also with algebraic options as HP49. > It seems that the dealer does not know about it. RPN is not the only thing that makes the learning process difficult. There are a lot of flags and things you can customize, and they often affect results. -- Bhuvanesh ==== > View this link (Spanish) > excuse my english, I`m chilean. > Comparison ti89 vs hp49G (not 49g+) > http://www.ate.cl/home/comp.htm > > Bye. <> The TI-89 (hardware 2) does have an internal clock. Also, the Voyage 200 comes with a USB cable. -- Bhuvanesh ==== > View this link (Spanish) > excuse my english, I`m chilean. > Comparison ti89 vs hp49G (not 49g+) > http://www.ate.cl/home/comp.htm > > Bye. Another correction: <> Actually, the AMS is about 1.18MB. -- Bhuvanesh ==== > View this link (Spanish) > excuse my english, I`m chilean. > Comparison ti89 vs hp49G (not 49g+) > http://www.ate.cl/home/comp.htm > > Bye. > > <> > > The TI-89 (hardware 2) does have an internal clock. ALARMS? Programmable way of setting time, date, alarms... Able to launch a program from alarm and then shut OFF ??? > Also, the Voyage 200 comes with a USB cable. > > -- > Bhuvanesh ==== > <> > > The TI-89 (hardware 2) does have an internal clock. > ALARMS? No alarms, but the comparison did not mention alarms. > Programmable way of setting time, date, alarms... Oh, yes, of course you can set the time, date, time zone, etc. programmatically. > Able to launch a program from alarm and then shut OFF No alarms, so not applicable :-) -- Bhuvanesh ==== Dear All, This might seem a bit daft, but I would be pleased if someone could explain how I can write USER RPL on a PC and then transfer to the HP49G+ calculator. I can get variables uploaded and downloaded using the connectivity software. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Peter Nicoll ==== > Dear All, > > This might seem a bit daft, but I would be pleased if someone could explain > how I can write USER RPL on a PC and then transfer to the HP49G+ calculator. > > I can get variables uploaded and downloaded using the connectivity software. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Peter Nicoll If you mean a regular user program then the following might help: Be sure the first line of the source code on the computer is: %%HP: T(3)A(D)F(.); Then comes the program beginning with << and ending with >> If you want to send more than one program at a time, i.e. a directory, then the second line of the source code must be DIR and the last line of the source code must be END with each program separated by a name and starting and ending with program delimiters, i.e. << and >> Be sure to use a pure ASCII text editing program, not something that adds formatting, such as Word. One choice to use is notepad. Personally I use a very old program called bse. Hope this is what you were looking for. rdb. p.s. The three items in parenthesis above, T(3)A(D)F(.) control formatting on the HP-48GX. The settings as given will work in most instances. rdb.