HP-6 ==== It seems I made a bad translation of what I was trying to say. Maybe I can explain a little better. In my country during the years 1990 and 1993 the prices icreased a lot, but it was prohibited to change prices. So many shops used to change collors of many things, change one or other thing, like for example, change the color of the potlif of a pan, replace the power supply of some portable radios to sell it as a new ones. The product was not the same because there was a little thing to make it a different one. So these things was sold with a new price. We call this MAQUIAGEM, but this word in English is something like makeup. Some shops used to makeup many things to sell the as new ones. This practice was prohibited as soon it was noticed. It is something like to use new cloths to say I am not the same. I am a new one. Comparing this story to HP49G+ I dare to say: HP49G+ is the HP49G with new cloths only. New design, new colors, and that is all. The same have happened with HP48G+ some years ago. [] CM > As I can see the new HP49G Plus should win the Oscar of make-up and > visual effects. Another marketing decision to try sell old supply of > old calcs that are on the left? > > My opinion only. ==== I don't know I would call a 3-5 times increase in speed a superficial change. The 12* increase in download time is also imo very useful. There's nothing more annoying than waiting for a 10KB library or whatever to crawl from the PC to HP49. There is also an increased screen size. Though it would be nice to have more CAS algorithms available, this can be done at anytime. For those reasons I find it hard to complain too much. JMO Dave h > It seems I made a bad translation of what I was trying to say. > > Maybe I can explain a little better. > > In my country during the years 1990 and 1993 the prices icreased a lot, > but it was prohibited to change prices. > > So many shops used to change collors of many things, change one or other > thing, like for example, change the color of the potlif of a pan, replace the > power supply of some portable radios to sell it as a new ones. > > The product was not the same because there was a little thing to > make it a different one. So these things was sold with a new price. > We call this MAQUIAGEM, but this word in English is something like > makeup. Some shops used to makeup many things to sell the as new ones. > This practice was prohibited as soon it was noticed. > > It is something like to use new cloths to say I am not the same. > I am a new one. > > Comparing this story to HP49G+ I dare to say: > HP49G+ is the HP49G with new cloths only. > New design, new colors, and that is all. > > The same have happened with HP48G+ some years ago. > > > > [] > > CM > > > > As I can see the new HP49G Plus should win the Oscar of make-up and > visual effects. Another marketing decision to try sell old supply of > old calcs that are on the left? > > My opinion only. ==== > > Comparing this story to HP49G+ I dare to say: > HP49G+ is the HP49G with new cloths only. > New design, new colors, and that is all. > > The same have happened with HP48G+ some years ago. > I quite disagree on this one, the HW is completely different, the SW is more or less the same. I guess the name may confuse you but the internals of the 49G+ could lead to a revolution if HP tell us how it works, whereas the 49 was old hardware pushed to the limit. One one hand a 75 MHz ARM on the other a 4 MHz saturn, I would not call this make up. Arnaud ==== > As I can see the new HP49G Plus should win the Oscar of make-up and > visual effects. Another marketing decision to try sell old supply of > old calcs that are on the left? > > My opinion only. Everyone is entitled to one, but I believe you are mistaken... You think it's a marketing decision to try sell old supply of old calcs that are on the left... How so? The internals are much improved, there are more features like bigger screen etc. The only faults I've seen are 1) Excessive power concumption when off -> This has already been fixed in the new ROM! 2) Keyboard occasionally clicks when no keystroke has been registered -> Problem has been seen on very early hardware - I'm confident that this will be fixed in the future. The keys are still much better then the 49G. Besides that, the machine is nice - faster, supports easy memory upgrades and is very stable. Just my thoughts, Al ==== In Thierry Morissette > The words may not make sense, but the question does. > Well I think it still doesn't make sense. 49G+ a re-package? Hum let me think: -Bigger screen -32 bit architecture, ARM CPU -SD card -USB -IrDA etc... ==== > Well I think it still doesn't make sense. > 49G+ a re-package? > > Hum let me think: > -Bigger screen > -32 bit architecture, ARM CPU > -SD card > -USB > -IrDA > etc... You've re-packaged the batteries. Camille ==== > > Well I think it still doesn't make sense. > 49G+ a re-package? > > Hum let me think: > -Bigger screen > -32 bit architecture, ARM CPU > -SD card > -USB > -IrDA > etc... > > You've re-packaged the batteries. > > Camille AND that is a mistake in my book! I hope the HP 49GX II+ will have a rechargeable battery pack using the USB for recharging and size AA batteries PS: I love the new 49G+ design and I'm never going back to any other old calculator design in the 28/48/49 series. A HP 43S or a 15C Platinum would be an exeption. ==== > I think he's implying that HP took left over 49G's, re-packaged them, and > are selling them as 49G+'s. It was more or less what I was trying to say. But I also made some mistakes. Please read my post New HPG+ - I Made a Mistake [] CM > In <2cfc228.0309122006.5cbff808@posting.google.com> Carlos Marangon > > As I can see the new HP49G Plus should win the Oscar of make-up and > > visual effects. Another marketing decision to try sell old supply of > > old calcs that are on the left? > > This message doesn't make any sense... > old calc on the left? > > I think he's implying that HP took left over 49G's, re-packaged them, and > are selling them as 49G+'s. > > Bob ==== > or a 15C Platinum would be an exeption. Yes please Mr Kimpo 拜託! Arnaud ==== > >> Well I think it still doesn't make sense. >> 49G+ a re-package? >> >> Hum let me think: >> -Bigger screen >> -32 bit architecture, ARM CPU >> -SD card >> -USB >> -IrDA >> etc... > >You've re-packaged the batteries. LOL As HP made clear in their presentation to the HPCC Conference almost exactly a year ago now, they had a 3 stage strategy: 1) Re-badge someone else's calculator to keep them in the market. Models like the 9S were the result. 2) Re-engineer existing models. This is where we are now with the release of the current crop of new models - the hp12c platinum, hp17bii+, hp19bii+, hp33s, hp48gII and hp49g+ 3) Release genuinely new models. Phase 3 is just about to start so now is the time to have all those really great ideas that will put HP ahead of the competition. Post them here because we know that HP lurk in this group but don't make them too outrageous because a calc with built-in time machine so that you can have extra time in exams just isn't going to happen. ;-) Suggestions for extra functions and application environments are particularly useful. Students please note that just because you need something for coursework, it doesn't mean that that function comes up often in real life. So things that are useful to engineers as well get extra points. Having said that, I've only ever used trigonometry once for work so if I followed this advice, nothing would get added :-(. -- Bruce Horrocks Surrey England ==== X > As HP made clear in their presentation to the HPCC Conference almost > exactly a year ago now, they had a 3 stage strategy: X > 3) Release genuinely new models. > > Phase 3 is just about to start so now is the time to have all those > really great ideas that will put HP ahead of the competition. > > Post them here because we know that HP lurk in this group but don't make > them too outrageous because a calc with built-in time machine so that > you can have extra time in exams just isn't going to happen. ;-) > > Suggestions for extra functions and application environments are > particularly useful. Students please note that just because you need > something for coursework, it doesn't mean that that function comes up > often in real life. So things that are useful to engineers as well get > extra points. Having said that, I've only ever used trigonometry once > for work so if I followed this advice, nothing would get added :-(. X After the introduction of the HP 28C it's time to finally add those extra analytical functions [A]CSC/SEC/COT[H] AND make as many Commands to Functions as possible like the statistical distributions and HMS+, etc. Bring back the user-definable derivatives of the 48-series (derNAME) as well as the APPLY and step-by-step EVALuation of the names. Read the Bill Wicke's book of using APPLY to understand what I mean. Units in the EQW, [matrices] and {list} in the EQW (and command line) Complex with units = (2_V,<)40_o), Symbolic Complex, Complex Solver with ability to solve also the separate components (x,y) or (R,O) Extended Reals/Complex + DIGITS integrated (Gjermund?) Aplets & all the 39G plot modes + FRACT display mode. Settings for grouping of digits on any real/bint/zint before/after radix ALL Wolfgangs work integrated + Emacs + Extable2 + Sdiag + Jazz Debug System Flash min 2MB, user min 2MB, preferable 4M+4M=8M EQNLIB back with etools to make your own additions. A reloadable error message table with tools for localization. In case there is not even a French msglib, the ERRN is shown. Enhanced RISCH with a fast look-up table before the heurestics to compensate for speed & found antiderivatives Did I forget anything? Oh yes: JYA's graphic toolkit is needed for greys. ==== > Did I forget anything? Oh yes: JYA's graphic toolkit is needed for greys. Built in documentation for each function showing a stack diagram, arguments, flags and a short description. A keyboard designed based on which functions are used most often, thus minimizing keystrokes. Also, the keyboard layout and the shifted functions should have a consistent logic to them (an example of this on the HP48G is that if there is no left-shifted functionality printed above a key, then the left shifted version of the key has something to do with the right shifted version.) A time machine. -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== > Post them here because we know that HP lurk in this group but don't make > them too outrageous because a calc with built-in time machine so that > you can have extra time in exams just isn't going to happen. ;-) > > Suggestions for extra functions and application environments are > particularly useful. Students please note that just because you need > something for coursework, it doesn't mean that that function comes up > often in real life. So things that are useful to engineers as well get > extra points. Having said that, I've only ever used trigonometry once > for work so if I followed this advice, nothing would get added :-(. [snip bla bla bla..] > Did I forget anything? Oh yes: JYA's graphic toolkit is needed for greys. Hey!!!! It's my graphic toolkit! cheers, Cyrille (not mumbeling for HP when talking here :-) ==== X > Did I forget anything? Oh yes: JYA's graphic toolkit is needed for greys. > Hey!!!! It's my graphic toolkit! http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4388 Yours? Then as a HP person you may have a change to squeeze it somewhere in a new ROM? ==== > Did I forget anything? > > More stats functionnality, the 49 was a step in the right direction. Something like a slightly updated stat49 should be in ROM Arnaud ==== You write in your post that HP's designers lurk in this group. I sincerely hope so. However, after reading the first evaluations of the 49G+ I have the following comments: 1 - Color scheme: it seems that the label constrats is better. So far, so good. 2 - Curvy faceplate sides: it seems that HP want to appeal to people with fashion. I agree that a calculator do not have to be ugly but, hey HP, we use these machine to compute. The 48 serie was OK. 3 - Keyboard: painted plastic keys. Not necessarily better than painted rubber. Maybe the labels will not wear off as fast as on the 49G. Double injection keys were good, why scrap this idea on a machine of this price ? 4 - Keyboard: keys not registering on a constant basis. Why this on a machine of this price ? Considering the last two comments, I wonder why HP do not offder a decent keyboard like the one found on 41, 42 or 48 series ? I already important when you get near the 200 $ US mark. 5 - Why stick with this diamond shaped cluster of arrow keys ? To be like TI or Casio or what ? In the same space, six standard keys could be installed, giving room to more functions. Then the ENTER key could be put back to its usual place and to it original size (double width key), since it is the heart of RPN. Yes, RPN which is why I have always bough HP calculators. This was one of their distinctive features. It is too bad that after dropping many of their distinctive features they are also diminishing RPN appearance on their calculators. 6 - Batteries life: It was the same with the HP-41. The card reader was a real batterie eater. Untill they released a rechargeable battery pack. 7 - Ligth weight: not a problem if the calculator feel solid. I found my HP 25 lighter than my HP-45, still the feel was solid. The case could not be twisted easily. The 41C, however felt a little more flexible. The 49G feel solid in that regard. Conclusion: Unless I see and try a 49G+, I will wait for Phase 3 of their plan. To me, the 49G was an improved 48 and the 49G+ is an improved (in some ways) 49G. For experiment in programing, mathematics, rough function graphing or calculating and converting with units, the 49G do the job, although a computer will be faster and gives better graphics. For efficient, fast and reliable number crunching the 49G do not satisfy my needs. Its keyboard slows me down too much. My guess is that the 49G+ will not be better at this. Wait and see. Jean (Johnny) Lemire from Richelieu, Quebec, Canada. ==== > > You write in your post that HP's designers lurk in this group. > > I sincerely hope so. > > However, after reading the first evaluations of the 49G+ I have the > following comments: > > 1 - Color scheme: it seems that the label constrats is better. So > far, so good. > > 2 - Curvy faceplate sides: it seems that HP want to appeal to people > with fashion. I agree that a calculator do not have to be ugly but, > hey HP, we use these machine to compute. The 48 serie was OK. > > 3 - Keyboard: painted plastic keys. Not necessarily better than > painted rubber. Maybe the labels will not wear off as fast as on the > 49G. Double injection keys were good, why scrap this idea on a > machine of this price ? > > 4 - Keyboard: keys not registering on a constant basis. Why this on a > machine of this price ? > > Considering the last two comments, I wonder why HP do not offder a > decent keyboard like the one found on 41, 42 or 48 series ? I already > important when you get near the 200 $ US mark. > > 5 - Why stick with this diamond shaped cluster of arrow keys ? To be > like TI or Casio or what ? In the same space, six standard keys could > be installed, giving room to more functions. Then the ENTER key could > be put back to its usual place and to it original size (double width > key), since it is the heart of RPN. Yes, RPN which is why I have > always bough HP calculators. This was one of their distinctive > features. > > It is too bad that after dropping many of their distinctive features > they are also diminishing RPN appearance on their calculators. > > 6 - Batteries life: It was the same with the HP-41. The card reader > was a real batterie eater. Untill they released a rechargeable > battery pack. > > 7 - Ligth weight: not a problem if the calculator feel solid. I found > my HP 25 lighter than my HP-45, still the feel was solid. The case > could not be twisted easily. The 41C, however felt a little more > flexible. The 49G feel solid in that regard. > > Conclusion: > > Unless I see and try a 49G+, I will wait for Phase 3 of their plan. > To me, the 49G was an improved 48 and the 49G+ is an improved (in some > ways) 49G. > > For experiment in programing, mathematics, rough function graphing or > calculating and converting with units, the 49G do the job, although a > computer will be faster and gives better graphics. > > For efficient, fast and reliable number crunching the 49G do not > satisfy my needs. Its keyboard slows me down too much. My guess is > that the 49G+ will not be better at this. > > Wait and see. > > Jean (Johnny) Lemire from Richelieu, Quebec, Canada. ---- This is a first time post to this NG; though I have been reading this NG for a good many years, but always remained on the sidelines. I have the 48Gx which I use and code constantly, and am not a happy 49G owner (that I am sorry to say is never used). With the 48 series, I was happy - and happier still with the extended mathematical capablities of the 49, but remain rather disappointed - particularly with HP's latest offering (49G+). Had HP been reviewing this NG, it should have listened more attentively to users - rather than running after the TI & Casio crowd. Jean Lemire points out pretty much all that I find bad about the 49 series (well done JL!)- it's a real shame others aren't so lucid and clear cut about these issues. To reiterate (hope HP reads this): * HP users don't want curves on their calcs or fancy colors for that matter (if they did they'd take up some other breed of calculator); the 48 had grace, the 49 runs ferral in that department (though the 49g+ is a noticble improvement over the 49g). HP, please bring a return to the style of the 48. * Metallic painted plastic bodies may excite 2 year olds, but not engineers, scientists, or mathematicians alike. * A recessed screen is a must, (prevents screen from scratches, etal) - the 48 was ideal here. * HP users want the keypad of the 48 - anything else is a compramise (quite frankly anything else sucks!). As for issues of keys not registering on the 49 - I really can't believe in this day and age, and levels of engineering design capable that this would ever be an issue; it should never happen! * As for the keyboard layout - BRING BACK THE LARGE ENTER KEY TO THE MIDDLE OF THE KEYBOARD, and rid us of the diamond oriented arrow keys (this is a NUISANCE) - and in place we can have six USEFUL keys in their place! As for the key marked 'X' - it is completely UNNECESSARY! and utter waste of real estate - HP, please rectify. Hoping not to sound too negative, I'm happy with a larger screen on the 49; the reported increase in speed performance; improved screen contrast; the SD card option; and a return to detailed manuals (though I hear that there is room for improvement there too!). Until HP sees fit to rectify these issues - I'll continue using my 48gx, despite the fact that I could do a good deal more with the 49g+. For the time being, I doubt I will venture into 49 territory. ...Still waiting :-( Manfred ==== > > > Post them here because we know that HP lurk in this group but don't make > > them too outrageous because a calc with built-in time machine so that > > you can have extra time in exams just isn't going to happen. ;-) > > > > Suggestions for extra functions and application environments are > > particularly useful. Students please note that just because you need > > something for coursework, it doesn't mean that that function comes up > > often in real life. So things that are useful to engineers as well get > > extra points. Having said that, I've only ever used trigonometry once > > for work so if I followed this advice, nothing would get added :-(. > > [snip bla bla bla..] > > Did I forget anything? Oh yes: JYA's graphic toolkit is needed for greys. > > Hey!!!! It's my graphic toolkit! > > cheers, Cyrille (not mumbeling for HP when talking here :-) ---- ...any chance of getting a calculator that can work with, recognize, and compute hypergeometric functions and series - or is this too outrageous a wish ?? Manfred ==== +----------------------------------------------+ | Tue, 16.9.03 7:07 p.m. +1200 (NZT) | +----------------------------------------------+ in message ID : [...] > > This is a first time post to this NG; though I have been > reading this NG for a good many years, but always remained > on the sidelines. I wouldn't believe everything you read here Manfred - instead I recommend to try a 49g+ the first chance you get :) [...] -- Tony Hutchins Wellington New Zealand #336 Truth is mighty and will prevail. Nothing the matter with this, except that it ain't so. M Twain <4i59b.6849$ZB4.1570@reader1.news.jippii.net> <3f65c4df$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com> ==== In Veli-Pekka Nousiainen > http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4388 > Yours? > That's the EDG, it has nothing to do with the built-in HP49 graphical tools. ==== > In Veli-Pekka Nousiainen > http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4388 > Yours? > > That's the EDG, it has nothing to do with the built-in HP49 graphical > tools. Right: BUT it should be - it is that good! ==== > ...any chance of getting a calculator that can work with, recognize, > and compute hypergeometric functions and series - or is this too > outrageous a wish ?? What do you mean? Things like HypergeometricPFQ? Some of these are implemented in my MathTools package for the TI-68k. -- Bhuvanesh ==== > * HP users don't want curves on their calcs or fancy colors for that > matter (if they did they'd take up some other breed of calculator); > the 48 had grace, the 49 runs ferral in that department (though the > 49g+ is a noticble improvement over the 49g). HP, please bring a > return to the style of the 48. > > * Metallic painted plastic bodies may excite 2 year olds, but not > engineers, scientists, or mathematicians alike. I'm a scientist, and I like the colour scheme & shape. Who says being a scientist/engineer/mathematician made a person devoid any sense of aesthetics > > * A recessed screen is a must, (prevents screen from scratches, etal) > - the 48 was ideal here. > > * HP users want the keypad of the 48 - anything else is a compramise > (quite frankly anything else sucks!). As for issues of keys not > registering on the 49 - I really can't believe in this day and age, > and levels of engineering design capable that this would ever be an > issue; it should never happen! Can't disagree with that. > > * As for the keyboard layout - BRING BACK THE LARGE ENTER KEY TO THE > MIDDLE OF THE KEYBOARD, and rid us of the diamond oriented arrow keys > (this is a NUISANCE) - and in place we can have six USEFUL keys in > their place! As for the key marked 'X' - it is completely > UNNECESSARY! and utter waste of real estate - HP, please rectify. I like the diamond shape & the 'X' key. In fact I'd like to see a 'Y' too! > snipped Dave ==== > ...any chance of getting a calculator that can work with, recognize, > and compute hypergeometric functions and series - or is this too > outrageous a wish ?? What, you want to use your calculator to calculate stuff? Values of functions of higher mathematics even? Sorry, wrong group, and wrong calculator. You could try a TI-89 or Voyage 200 with Buvanesh's Math Toolkit, or an HP-48 with John Holland's Engineering Mathematics Library. Both of these can do some serious advanced number crunching. With a 49 you are on your own. -- Helen. ==== > ...any chance of getting a calculator that can work with, recognize, > and compute hypergeometric functions and series - or is this too > outrageous a wish ?? > > What, you want to use your calculator to calculate stuff? Values of > functions of higher mathematics even? Sorry, wrong group, and wrong > calculator. WRONG ANSWER > You could try a TI-89 or Voyage 200 with Buvanesh's Math Toolkit, or > an HP-48 with John Holland's Engineering Mathematics Library. Both of > these can do some serious advanced number crunching. With a 49 you are > on your own. http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3140 ==== > What, you want to use your calculator to calculate stuff? Values of > functions of higher mathematics even? Sorry, wrong group, and wrong > calculator. > WRONG ANSWER How so, if I may ask? > You could try a TI-89 or Voyage 200 with Buvanesh's Math Toolkit, or > an HP-48 with John Holland's Engineering Mathematics Library. Both of > these can do some serious advanced number crunching. With a 49 you are > on your own. > > http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3140 [Smiling pityingly...] You are joking, right? A couple of Bessel functions? Do you have any idea at all what we have been talking about? The original poster was asking for hypergeometric functions, and I had extended that more generally to functions of higher mathematics. I think Buvanesh's library must have a couple dozen of these. John Holland's library for the HP 48 lists a couple of hundred... So, all you can put up for the 49G is a library containing the four point. As an aside, one might mention that in the area of mathematics there is almost nothing of any interest available for the 49G. In the TI community, there seems to be significantly more activity in that field. Of course, that's not surprising, really, given the fact that just about nobody uses the 49G... -- Helen. ==== > ...any chance of getting a calculator that can work with, recognize, > and compute hypergeometric functions and series - or is this too > outrageous a wish ?? > > What do you mean? Things like HypergeometricPFQ? Some of these are > implemented in my MathTools package for the TI-68k. ...Yes, very much so - predominantly what you might call generalized/regularized hypergeometric series rFs, and hypergeometric double series (Kampe de Feriet series) whence products; along with convergence tests; transformations; evaluation of integrals; symbolics, and anything else you might wish for. -Definitely I would think most taxing for a calculator at this time (confronting issues of pattern matching, current state of numerical algorithms available, and speed would have to come first)- but it would be nice to see some of this capability in handhelds in future. Apologies Bhuvanesh, I'm not at all familiar with anything written for the TI, and in any case was hoping for something of this nature might be attempted for HP calcs in due course. ==== > * HP users don't want curves on their calcs or fancy colors for that > matter (if they did they'd take up some other breed of calculator); > the 48 had grace, the 49 runs ferral in that department (though the > 49g+ is a noticble improvement over the 49g). HP, please bring a > return to the style of the 48. > > * Metallic painted plastic bodies may excite 2 year olds, but not > engineers, scientists, or mathematicians alike. > > I'm a scientist, and I like the colour scheme & shape. Who says being a > scientist/engineer/mathematician made a person devoid any sense of > aesthetics > > I'm also one among your lot too - and I happen to dislike it - but apologies if I stepped on your toes; (and in any case my comments on this point were more attuned towards the 49g rather than the 49g+; though I still hanker after the body of the 48 in any case). Clearly HP had a particular target audience with respect to the aesthetics of the 49 (or rather attempted to broaden its audience in that department) and I guess it thought that its past customer base would ignore aesthetics if the machine was abounding in functionality. re-evaluate on many fronts (including body armour); consequently we see a slight return to the conservative designs of the past in the 49g+. -Again apologies for my past mass generalizations, I've probably done somewhat the same again now - but don't take take it to heart. > > > * A recessed screen is a must, (prevents screen from scratches, etal) > - the 48 was ideal here. > > * HP users want the keypad of the 48 - anything else is a compramise > (quite frankly anything else sucks!). As for issues of keys not > registering on the 49 - I really can't believe in this day and age, > and levels of engineering design capable that this would ever be an > issue; it should never happen! > > Can't disagree with that. Great, we agree on something :-) > > > * As for the keyboard layout - BRING BACK THE LARGE ENTER KEY TO THE > MIDDLE OF THE KEYBOARD, and rid us of the diamond oriented arrow keys > (this is a NUISANCE) - and in place we can have six USEFUL keys in > their place! As for the key marked 'X' - it is completely > UNNECESSARY! and utter waste of real estate - HP, please rectify. > > I like the diamond shape & the 'X' key. In fact I'd like to see a 'Y' too! > > snipped > Have to disagree with you there - but enough said. > > Dave Manfred ==== > +----------------------------------------------+ > | Tue, 16.9.03 7:07 p.m. +1200 (NZT) | > +----------------------------------------------+ > > > in message ID : > [...] > > This is a first time post to this NG; though I have been > reading this NG for a good many years, but always remained > on the sidelines. > > I wouldn't believe everything you read here Manfred - instead > I recommend to try a 49g+ the first chance you get :) > [...] thanks, I'll keep that in mind - in any case I might (read most probably will) develop an itch to strong to bear and try the new piece, but will try to persevere patiently until some of the problems noted in this NG are ironed out in (hopefully) the next manufactred batch. ... (still waiting). ==== > As an aside, one might mention that in the area of mathematics there > is almost nothing of any interest available for the 49G. In the TI > community, there seems to be significantly more activity in that > field. Of course, that's not surprising, really, given the fact that > just about nobody uses the 49G... But there is a reason. HP 49 is a total joke and a complete flop. It supposed to be a glorious extension of the succesfull HP48 line. HP hired so called genius experts known at the time in the HP48 area and it turned out to be their biggest mistake. Experts turned out to be so attached to the outdated hardware that they did not seriously considered major refreshemnt of the machine and ended up with a ridiculous toy that was trying to merge aging HP48 with some of the functionality of the market leader, TI 89. It actually created neither good HP nor a decent copy of TI. That is why HP had to close it's own calc department and look for help from people without preconceived notions from Taiwan. I actually think, that despite some quality problems with this calculator, on paper Chinese engineers actually achieved way more in less than a year than ACO in it's several years of work on HP49. They actually replaced Saturn that some experts on this forum were telling me to be impossible when the original HP49 hit the market. They dumped Saturn and enlarged the screen size !!!! Check posts from this forum about a year ago to find out that both those tasks (CPU and screen size) was almost impossible to achieve. I wonder how much more Chinese discover to be equally impossible when they have more time to play with the software without the comments of the old HP era gurus. I guess Carly Fiorina turned out to be a smarter woman than many here thought. > > -- Helen. Jack ==== X > I think Buvanesh's library must have a couple dozen of these. John > Holland's library for the HP 48 lists a couple of hundred... X OK, you got me, Helen! John Holland's library for the HP 48? Where can I find this marvel! ==== +----------------------------------------------+ | Wed, 17.9.03 5:33 p.m. +1200 (NZT) | +----------------------------------------------+ in message ID : > John Holland's library for the HP 48? > Where can I find this marvel! www.amazon.com for about 200 USD Still available - with ROM card. Possibly published 1992. -- Tony Hutchins Wellington New Zealand #330 The gem cannot be polished without friction, nor man perfected without trials. Chin. Proverb ==== > +----------------------------------------------+ > | Wed, 17.9.03 5:33 p.m. +1200 (NZT) | > +----------------------------------------------+ > > >in message ID : > >> John Holland's library for the HP 48? >> Where can I find this marvel! > >www.amazon.com for about 200 USD >Still available - with ROM card. Possibly published 1992. If you buy it used make sure it has the on one page addendum. There are several functions built in to the GX that have the same name on the ROM card. If you do not write several mini programs when these functions are called they will use the built in GX functions instead of the one on Hollands card. ==== > > I'm also one among your lot too - and I happen to dislike it - but > apologies if I stepped on your toes; (and in any case my comments on > this point were more attuned towards the 49g rather than the 49g+; You didn't, we're all entitled to our opinions. To be honest, I still use my old hp28s most of the time. I do have to disagree with some other peoples comments about quality of HPs models prior to the 49 though. The battery compartment cover on the 28s is rubbish. Dave ==== > > +----------------------------------------------+ > | Wed, 17.9.03 5:33 p.m. +1200 (NZT) | > +----------------------------------------------+ > > >in message ID : > >> John Holland's library for the HP 48? >> Where can I find this marvel! > >www.amazon.com for about 200 USD >Still available - with ROM card. Possibly published 1992. > If you buy it used make sure it has the on one page addendum. There > are several functions built in to the GX that have the same name on > the ROM card. If you do not write several mini programs when these > functions are called they will use the built in GX functions instead > of the one on Hollands card. (-: Care to explain page 4 of this PDF-document? http://cecasun.utc.edu/%7Ehclimer/PRACRAD.pdf )-:< PS: 200$ is too much for me...)-: ==== >> >> +----------------------------------------------+ >> | Wed, 17.9.03 5:33 p.m. +1200 (NZT) | >> +----------------------------------------------+ >> >> >>in message ID : >> >>> John Holland's library for the HP 48? >>> Where can I find this marvel! >> >>www.amazon.com for about 200 USD >>Still available - with ROM card. Possibly published 1992. >> If you buy it used make sure it has the on one page addendum. There >> are several functions built in to the GX that have the same name on >> the ROM card. If you do not write several mini programs when these >> functions are called they will use the built in GX functions instead >> of the one on Hollands card. > >(-: >Care to explain page 4 of this PDF-document? >http://cecasun.utc.edu/%7Ehclimer/PRACRAD.pdf >)-:< >PS: 200$ is too much for me...)-: > > I would say that 99.99% of the students I teach do not use an HP calculator of any kind. About 75 % use a TI calculator of some kind. The rest use other assorted brands. Many, especially my General Science students have no idea of what a decaying exponential function is. Of course this function appears in nature for many physical phenomena, from Newtons Law of Cooling, an RC circuit, and radioactive shielding. Several years ago I won a TI89 as a door prize at a Tennessee Academy of Sciences meeting. I scanned my calculator into this document to show my students where the LN and exp keys were. BTW my TI89 is in a desk drawer in my basement office at home. I carry two GX's to work each day, that is enough. I always tell my students that my classes are Physics, Astronomy, General Science, or Oceanography classes, not How to use your caclulcators classes. Let them read the manual. <4i59b.6849$ZB4.1570@reader1.news.jippii.net> <3f65c4df$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com> <1a8f5fe5.0309161713.72ccb104@posting.google.com> ==== In message <1a8f5fe5.0309161713.72ccb104@posting.google.com>, Helen >You could try a TI-89 or Voyage 200 with Buvanesh's Math Toolkit, or an >HP-48 with John Holland's Engineering Mathematics Library. Both of >these can do some serious advanced number crunching. With a 49 you are >on your own. Have you suggested to HP that they licence John Holland's library for inclusion in the 49G+ or the next model? -- Bruce Horrocks Surrey England ==== > In message <1a8f5fe5.0309161713.72ccb104@posting.google.com>, Helen >You could try a TI-89 or Voyage 200 with Buvanesh's Math Toolkit, or an >HP-48 with John Holland's Engineering Mathematics Library. Both of >these can do some serious advanced number crunching. With a 49 you are >on your own. I have never before heard of this library. Where can you buy it? Is it really that good? Charles Perry P.E. ==== > Care to explain page 4 of this PDF-document? > http://cecasun.utc.edu/%7Ehclimer/PRACRAD.pdf > )-:< > PS: 200$ is too much for me...)-: What's there to explain? Using an HP calculator doesn't really preclude you from using a TI calculator :-) And, yes, $200 is quite a lot, especially considering that MathTools is free. MathTools may not be functionally equivalent to John Holland's library, but still... I wish I could have some idea of things implemented in Holland's library but missing from MathTools. -- Bhuvanesh ==== I tried to find this ROM card on www.amazon.com .... without succes... can anybody post the exact URL to this product.... thanks. Martin > +----------------------------------------------+ > | Wed, 17.9.03 5:33 p.m. +1200 (NZT) | > +----------------------------------------------+ > > > in message ID : > > John Holland's library for the HP 48? > Where can I find this marvel! > > www.amazon.com for about 200 USD > Still available - with ROM card. Possibly published 1992. > > -- > Tony Hutchins > Wellington > New Zealand > > #330 The gem cannot be polished without friction, > nor man perfected without trials. Chin. Proverb > ==== > > +----------------------------------------------+ > | Wed, 17.9.03 5:33 p.m. +1200 (NZT) | > +----------------------------------------------+ > > >in message ID : > >> John Holland's library for the HP 48? >> Where can I find this marvel! > >www.amazon.com for about 200 USD >Still available - with ROM card. Possibly published 1992. > If you buy it used make sure it has the on one page addendum. There > are several functions built in to the GX that have the same name on > the ROM card. If you do not write several mini programs when these > functions are called they will use the built in GX functions instead > of the one on Hollands card. ---- That's great news ... but at amazon it names this as Hp 48Sx Engineering Mathematics Library - is it for the SX or GX (or will it work on both)? -Any idea how good it is ?? -Does it come with source code (I'm guessing not) ?? -If it is as good as I hope, HP really ought to license this from Holland and add this functionality to the HP49 series and future calcs of its kind. Manfred. ==== +----------------------------------------------+ | Thu, 18.9.03 3:39 p.m. +1200 (NZT) | +----------------------------------------------+ in message ID : > I tried to find this ROM card on www.amazon.com .... without succes... can > anybody post the exact URL to this product.... thanks. I went to www.amazon.com and searched using holland hp48sx and it came up Tony ==== +----------------------------------------------+ | Thu, 18.9.03 3:41 p.m. +1200 (NZT) | +----------------------------------------------+ in message ID : > That's great news ... but at amazon it names this as Hp > 48Sx Engineering Mathematics Library - is it for the SX > or GX (or will it work on both)? Educalc used to advertise it in 1993 for 48SX and in 1994 for the 48SX/GX. Back then it was $139.95 and John Holland had a separate Math Library (although that seems to be the same as the MATHLIB in the main ROM card) for $99.95. > -Any idea how good it is ?? No, I haven't used it. Never had/have enough money :( But I've seen some quite high compliments for it. One from somebody I know who did buy it back in 1992. I have not seen any derogatory comments about it, except those I might make indavertently here. I have occasionally seen it sold second hand along with a 48SX. > -Does it come with source code (I'm guessing not) ?? There must be quite a bit of code in the book itself as a reviewer at amazon wished that code were available by ftp ;-) > -If it is as good as I hope, HP really ought to license > this from Holland and add this functionality to the HP49 > series and future calcs of its kind. Possibly. But if it is available as a library that should be fine? Maybe hp tried and Dr. Holland asked too high a price ;-) It is really hard to figure out what it contains, in detail, from the advertising, apart from the general statements like over nnn of various types of commands,functions etc. But The Educalc advert does mention 17 Weierstrass elliptic function programs, and over 40 probability distributions, including Bose-Einstein, Dirac Delta, Kolmogorov-Smirnov, Maxwell etc. I wonder how Dirac Delta gets represented on a computer? The advertising says Believe this: it solves a 40 x 40 system of linear equations in under 4 minutes Also it apparently does Runge-Kutta numerical and symbolic solutions for scalar, vector and simultaneous DEs. These types of things are probably already done better on the native 49G - for example it uses Runge-Kutta Fehlman for numeric solving of ODEs, and it's matrix capabilities seem excellent. I really don't know how difficult it would be for a motivated user to personally implement some more advanced function that they might need - possibly it is quite easy now with the 49G as you can just pop an algebraic expression in the middle of an RPL structured prog and EVAL it. It would be really interesting to see a review of this work. Perhaps only very few were sold, and all to people too busy to review it. My guess is that it must have added a whole new dimension to the 48SX. -- Tony Hutchins Wellington New Zealand ==== > +----------------------------------------------+ > | Thu, 18.9.03 3:41 p.m. +1200 (NZT) | > +----------------------------------------------+ > > > in message ID : > > That's great news ... but at amazon it names this as Hp > 48Sx Engineering Mathematics Library - is it for the SX > or GX (or will it work on both)? > > Educalc used to advertise it in 1993 for 48SX and in 1994 for > the 48SX/GX. Back then it was $139.95 and John Holland had a > separate Math Library (although that seems to be the same as > the MATHLIB in the main ROM card) for $99.95. > > -Any idea how good it is ?? > > No, I haven't used it. Never had/have enough money :( > But I've seen some quite high compliments for it. One from > somebody I know who did buy it back in 1992. I have not seen > any derogatory comments about it, except those I might make > indavertently here. I have occasionally seen it sold second > hand along with a 48SX. > > [snip ...] ---- Tony your a real gem - thanks! I'm flying out of Perth in a couple of weeks, but when I'll be back I'll be putting an order through for this library - even though I'm more than likely to get hold of a 49g+ sometime in near future, I expect to be using my 48GX alongside for a good many years yet; with this Holland's library who'd give up thier 48 (not me, at least not until future HP calcs demonstrate the capabilities of Holland's tools). When I do get hold of it and have a play, I'll report to this NG my findings. Manfred. ==== > Educalc used to advertise it in 1993 for 48SX and in 1994 for > the 48SX/GX. I think it was first advertised in the EduCALC catalog #57, page 60. That was fall 1992. Hmm... I wonder if it's written in User-RPL ... Let me search google ... Yes, 100% User-RPL: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=2ad28b23.1838.3comp.sys.hp48.1%40hpcvbb s.cv.hp.com http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3vjsb7%24qq7%40news.bu.edu Many of the programs were written by others but no credit was given. :-( Jordi ==== +----------------------------------------------+ | Thu, 18.9.03 11:05 p.m. +1200 (NZT) | +----------------------------------------------+ in message ID <7fcf10a1.0309180219.3e62b003@posting.google.com> : [...] > I think it was first advertised in the EduCALC catalog #57, page 60. > That was fall 1992. Hmm... I wonder if it's written in User-RPL ... > Let me search google ... > > Yes, 100% User-RPL: > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=2ad28b23.1838.3comp.sys.hp48.1%40hpcvbbs .cv.hp.com > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3vjsb7%24qq7%40news.bu.edu > > Many of the programs were written by others but no credit > was given. :-( Used user RPL :( I wondered how one person could knock up something like 1000 programs... that work ;-) groups.google is quite amazing. Now I've found that I will research before posting questions here - they've all been -- Tony Hutchins Wellington New Zealand #83 The educated differ from the uneducated as much as the living from the dead. Aristotle ==== > +----------------------------------------------+ > | Thu, 18.9.03 11:05 p.m. +1200 (NZT) | > +----------------------------------------------+ > > > in message ID <7fcf10a1.0309180219.3e62b003@posting.google.com> : > [...] > I think it was first advertised in the EduCALC catalog #57, page 60. > That was fall 1992. Hmm... I wonder if it's written in User-RPL ... > Let me search google ... > > Yes, 100% User-RPL: > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=2ad28b23.1838.3comp.sys.hp48.1%40hpcvbb s.cv.hp.com > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3vjsb7%24qq7%40news.bu.edu > > Many of the programs were written by others but no credit > was given. :-( > > Used user RPL :( X There is a certain oattern here: Anything new, good and improved is found (by some persons) bad. If there is an old piece of software that is made by exploiding other peoples work (without credit) and written in UserRPL then it is suddenly the best thing in the world (no matter the cost) with without you just can't use a calculator... SO instead of being helpful these trolls try to confuse an average user and thrive them away from /still) the best calculators of this world. I just wonder... ==== > Many of the programs were written by others but no credit > was given. :-( Hmm, looks like I have a big advantage there :-) Still, the compilation looks interesting. -- Bhuvanesh ==== > There is a certain oattern here: > Anything new, good and improved is found (by some persons) bad. Well, it seems I need to explain something here: You know, some of us do have a life, which does not primarily consist of playing with electronic toys. For that group of people, a calculator is a tool the utility of which is judged in terms of how well it helps us do our work. Now, on that account, there is no improvement whatsoever I could see in a 49G over the old 48 series, whereas there are quite a few things that have deteriorated significantly. I, along with most professionals in engineering and science, have no interest at all in a feeble CAS on a hokey little calculator, or a cutesy little equation writer. I do, however, notice that the speed of mathematical operations is substantially the same for the 49G versus the 48, and that the keyboard is a plain disaster. > If there is an old piece of software that is made by exploiding > other peoples work (without credit) and written in UserRPL The piece of software you are talking about was not made by exploiding [sic] other peoples work. Among the roughly 700 commands it includes a few programs that were available in the public domain. Yes, I agree, it would have been proper to give credit for those, but this definitely does not even begin to rise to the level that your comment implies. > then it is suddenly the best thing in the world (no matter the cost) The cost has nothing to do with it. It is not an issue for me, or for any of the people who bought it. Too bad if it is for you. And of course, nobody says that it is the best thing in the world. It just happens to be the best thing available for any calculator, for a certain type of applications. -- Helen. ==== > And, yes, $200 is quite a lot, especially considering that MathTools > is free. MathTools may not be functionally equivalent to John > Holland's library, but still... It used to be roughly $130, but apparently people think it has become more valuable. And, yes, your Mathtools are free, but they do not come with a 700-page book either... -- Helen. ==== > And, yes, $200 is quite a lot, especially considering that MathTools > is free. MathTools may not be functionally equivalent to John > Holland's library, but still... > > It used to be roughly $130, but apparently people think it has become > more valuable. And, yes, your Mathtools are free, but they do not come > with a 700-page book either... > OK, Helen! You have your point and I admit that the book makes it valuable! ==== > > Educalc used to advertise it in 1993 for 48SX and in 1994 for > the 48SX/GX. > > I think it was first advertised in the EduCALC catalog #57, page 60. > That was fall 1992. Hmm... I wonder if it's written in User-RPL ... > Let me search google ... > > Yes, 100% User-RPL: > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=2ad28b23.1838.3comp.sys.hp48.1%40hpcvbbs .cv.hp.com > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3vjsb7%24qq7%40news.bu.edu > > Many of the programs were written by others but no credit > was given. :-( > > > Jordi ---- Well that's not the best of news (100% User-RPL), it'll be damn slow! -But nontheless it's going to make reading the code easier - to which end I'm up to the challenge of porting these sources to assembly language (it will no doubt take a while -haven't got Holland's compilation yet; haven't yet got a 49G+ yet either); but I'd be itching to do it. For the lawyers among you - would there be issues porting this stuff to machine language straight from Holland's compilations ?? Manfred. ==== > Well that's not the best of news (100% User-RPL), it'll be damn slow! > -But nontheless it's going to make reading the code easier - to which > end I'm up to the challenge of porting these sources to assembly > language (it will no doubt take a while -haven't got Holland's > compilation yet; haven't yet got a 49G+ yet either); Yup, we are talking about 120k of UserRPL;... > but I'd be itching to do it. Well, if you could pull this off, I think that would be the most valuable contribution to the success of high-end HP calculators that has been made in more than a decade. Hey, I'll tell you what: I would even buy one of these calculators, and I would be happy to pay you any reasonable price for your library, too. And I will tell all my friends and colleagues to get one, as well... As I said, if we are talking about professionals, then just about nobody is interested in a silly CAS on a calculator. The kind of stuff that Holland provides, on the other hand, is of far more interest: What we need is high-end numerical capabilities; functions and methods of higher mathematics, powerful numerical algorithms. How about numerical solutions of integral equations, differential eigenvalue problems, boundary value problems, polynomial eigenvalue problems, etc., etc. Those are the kinds of things that can be done nicely on the kind of hardware that HP provides. They are also the kinds of things that would be nice if they could be done quickly and conveniently on a calculator. Unfortunately, instead of looking into what professionals might expect of a serious calculator, HP had apparently decided to have their 49G designed by a bunch of gee-whiz kids playing with their calculators in high school. The result is the sad joke, and complete failure in the marketplace that is the 49G. > For the lawyers among you - would there be issues porting this stuff > to machine language straight from Holland's compilations ?? Well, unfortunately, you don't need to be a lawyer to see that you will be in trouble if you do exactly as you say. On the other hand, nobody can keep you, or HP, from, shall we say, taking your inspirations from Holland's work, and from good-old AMS-55... -- Helen. ==== > > Well that's not the best of news (100% User-RPL), it'll be damn slow! > -But nontheless it's going to make reading the code easier - to which > end I'm up to the challenge of porting these sources to assembly > language (it will no doubt take a while -haven't got Holland's > compilation yet; haven't yet got a 49G+ yet either); but I'd be > itching to do it. It could be a shared job. I am sure others would be happy to help. Like me for instance. But I am not going to spend $200 to get the source Arnaud ==== I'd be delighted to help out on this monstrous project. Who can be our project manager? =) Doug > > > Educalc used to advertise it in 1993 for 48SX and in 1994 for > > the 48SX/GX. > > I think it was first advertised in the EduCALC catalog #57, page 60. > That was fall 1992. Hmm... I wonder if it's written in User-RPL ... > Let me search google ... > > Yes, 100% User-RPL: > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=2ad28b23.1838.3comp.sys.hp48.1%40hpcvbb s.cv.hp.com > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3vjsb7%24qq7%40news.bu.edu > > Many of the programs were written by others but no credit > was given. :-( > > > Jordi > > > ---- > > > Well that's not the best of news (100% User-RPL), it'll be damn slow! > -But nontheless it's going to make reading the code easier - to which > end I'm up to the challenge of porting these sources to assembly > language (it will no doubt take a while -haven't got Holland's > compilation yet; haven't yet got a 49G+ yet either); but I'd be > itching to do it. > > For the lawyers among you - would there be issues porting this stuff > to machine language straight from Holland's compilations ?? > > > Manfred. ==== > [snip ...] > > As I said, if we are talking about professionals, then just about > nobody is interested in a silly CAS on a calculator. The kind of stuff > that Holland provides, on the other hand, is of far more interest: > What we need is high-end numerical capabilities; functions and methods > of higher mathematics, powerful numerical algorithms. How about > numerical solutions of integral equations, differential eigenvalue > problems, boundary value problems, polynomial eigenvalue problems, > etc., etc. Those are the kinds of things that can be done nicely on > the kind of hardware that HP provides. They are also the kinds of > things that would be nice if they could be done quickly and > conveniently on a calculator. Unfortunately, instead of looking into > what professionals might expect of a serious calculator, HP had > apparently decided to have their 49G designed by a bunch of gee-whiz > kids playing with their calculators in high school. The result is the > sad joke, and complete failure in the marketplace that is the 49G. > > For the lawyers among you - would there be issues porting this stuff > to machine language straight from Holland's compilations ?? > > Well, unfortunately, you don't need to be a lawyer to see that you > will be in trouble if you do exactly as you say. On the other hand, > nobody can keep you, or HP, from, shall we say, taking your > inspirations from Holland's work, and from good-old AMS-55... > > -- Helen. ---- What you've said here is exactly what I feel about the 48/49 in terms of mathematical ability, and there's always been such a diparity between what we have on these platforms and what we really want (mathematically); I've always felt exactly this way. Unlike past postings on this subject, (including prior postings of yours Helen), re what a calculator targeting persons affiliated with the NG ought be - your posting here is exceptional and to the point without any bias (a rarity for this NG); I commend you on this. It was due to HPs latest release with the 49G+ that finally got me fed up (I was expecting so much more mathematically), and made me start to post to the NG after so many years of just reading; to which end, querying what was available/ already written (re higher mathematical functions for this platform). I mean isn't that what we are really all about here, isn't that why we each own (at least) one, if not more of these machines (or there like, insert your favorite breed of calc HP, TI, or other) - we're mathematicians, engineers, scientists or any other species of homosapien oriented towards technical fields of study... Well, if at least one person other than I seems to think that porting Holland's compilation to assembly language is worthwhile than that's great (I'm going to need the inspiration). But in any case, I promise you this Helen - this intended work is not going to cost anyone here a cent; dime; penny; (substitute your particular nations' principal unit of denomination here), its going to be FREE! ...taking inspiration from Holland's work - I like that Helen, I think I'll do just that! :-) Manfred. PS. enjoy the weekend. ==== > > Well that's not the best of news (100% User-RPL), it'll be damn slow! > -But nontheless it's going to make reading the code easier - to which > end I'm up to the challenge of porting these sources to assembly > language (it will no doubt take a while -haven't got Holland's > compilation yet; haven't yet got a 49G+ yet either); but I'd be > itching to do it. > > > It could be a shared job. I am sure others would be happy to help. Like me > for instance. But I am not going to spend $200 to get the source > > Arnaud ---- Wow! I didn't expect anyone to be interested to the point of signing I won't be able to start on this just yet thought - I've yet to order Holland's compilation, and I still haven't got a HPs' latest release (49G+); but when I do get started I'll be sure to post something to that effect to this NG. Manfred. ==== X > (I was expecting so much more mathematically), and made me start to > post to the NG after so many years of just reading; to which end, X > Well, if at least one person other than I seems to think that porting > Holland's compilation to assembly language is worthwhile than that's > great (I'm going to need the inspiration). But in any case, I promise > you this Helen - this intended work is not going to cost anyone here a > cent; dime; penny; (substitute your particular nations' principal unit > of denomination here), its going to be FREE! X GIMME, GIMME, GIMME PS: Helen - I'm sorry about my previous comments by pointing out the Holland's job you have contributed... ==== > For the lawyers among you - would there be issues porting this stuff > to machine language straight from Holland's compilations ?? I'm not a lawyer, but I imagine there could be issues with the parts Holland himself has written. -- Bhuvanesh ==== > > > > Well that's not the best of news (100% User-RPL), it'll be damn slow! > > -But nontheless it's going to make reading the code easier - to which > > end I'm up to the challenge of porting these sources to assembly > > language (it will no doubt take a while -haven't got Holland's > > compilation yet; haven't yet got a 49G+ yet either); but I'd be > > itching to do it. > > > It could be a shared job. I am sure others would be happy to help. Like me > for instance. But I am not going to spend $200 to get the source > > Arnaud > > > ---- > > > Wow! I didn't expect anyone to be interested to the point of signing > > I won't be able to start on this just yet thought - I've yet to order > Holland's compilation, and I still haven't got a HPs' latest release > (49G+); but when I do get started I'll be sure to post something to > that effect to this NG. > > Manfred. I wonder, do you need Holland's compilation? If I understand Helen correctly, the rom contains numerical solutions to known functions. A list of functions is what we need and there must be other sources of generic solutions that can be fine-tuned to sysRPL. My time is limited right now, but after October, I should be able to free up time to help out. Sam ==== > I won't be able to start on this just yet thought - I've yet to order > Holland's compilation, and I still haven't got a HPs' latest release > (49G+); but when I do get started I'll be sure to post something to > that effect to this NG. One last remark, if you are looking for implementations of numerical algorithms, you might want to have a look at the old Slatec library, see http://www.netlib.org/slatec/. The library contains quite a few higher mathematical functions as well, plus a wealth of more advanced numerical algorithms. It is kind of old (o.k., for most of you guys it is probably stone age, written as it is in Fortran IV), but the full source code is available for free. At the very least, you can simply copy some of the constants used for various functions out of there. -- Helen. ==== > ...any chance of getting a calculator that can work with, recognize, > and compute hypergeometric functions and series - or is this too > outrageous a wish ?? > > What, you want to use your calculator to calculate stuff? Values of > functions of higher mathematics even? Sorry, wrong group, and wrong > calculator. Who the hell are you???? User and System RPL can get you to do.... well... pretty much anything > > You could try a TI-89 or Voyage 200 with Buvanesh's Math Toolkit, or > an HP-48 with John Holland's Engineering Mathematics Library. Both of > these can do some serious advanced number crunching. With a 49 you are > on your own. TI Sucks If theres anything you cant do with 49g, you can make a program to do it, period. > > -- Helen. Eddy-Who cant stand Ti calcs ==== > TI Sucks Obviously you have never used a 68k calculator. -- Bhuvanesh ==== > > > > Well that's not the best of news (100% User-RPL), it'll be damn slow! > > -But nontheless it's going to make reading the code easier - to which > > end I'm up to the challenge of porting these sources to assembly > > language (it will no doubt take a while -haven't got Holland's > > compilation yet; haven't yet got a 49G+ yet either); but I'd be > > itching to do it. > > > > > > It could be a shared job. I am sure others would be happy to help. Like > me > > for instance. But I am not going to spend $200 to get the source > > > > Arnaud > > > ---- > > > Wow! I didn't expect anyone to be interested to the point of signing > > I won't be able to start on this just yet thought - I've yet to order > Holland's compilation, and I still haven't got a HPs' latest release > (49G+); but when I do get started I'll be sure to post something to > that effect to this NG. > > Manfred. > > I wonder, do you need Holland's compilation? If I understand Helen > correctly, the rom contains numerical solutions to known functions. A list > of functions is what we need and there must be other sources of generic > solutions that can be fine-tuned to sysRPL. My time is limited right now, > but after October, I should be able to free up time to help out. > > Sam True, Holland's compilation is not a necessity - while I am competent mathematically (slight simplification here); but to cut a long story short - access to NUMERICAL algorithms for what I want to achieve here is not easily at hand; whilst on the other hand the theoretical aspects are for the most part at my disposal - whence my seeking of Holland's compilations. Nonetheless other sources would most definitely be welcome. Another offer of assistance - that makes two (Arnaud Amiel and yourself); most unexpected but by all means welcome :-) ; sometime after October seems roughly about the time I can kick this thing off too (assuming I have a 49G+ by then; to my knowledge, it hasn't been released in Australia just yet - someone correct me if I'm mistaken). Manfred. ==== > I'd be delighted to help out on this monstrous project. > > Who can be our project manager? =) > > Doug ----- That makes 4 including myself ... * Arnaud Amiel * Sam (aka PhreePhly) * Douglas Rohm ...any others ? To those of this existing coalition - I express my thanks for your enthusiasm; others are by all means welcome. Manfred. ----- > > > > > Educalc used to advertise it in 1993 for 48SX and in 1994 for > > the 48SX/GX. > > > > I think it was first advertised in the EduCALC catalog #57, page 60. > > That was fall 1992. Hmm... I wonder if it's written in User-RPL ... > > Let me search google ... > > > > Yes, 100% User-RPL: > > > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=2ad28b23.1838.3comp.sys.hp48.1%40hpcvbbs .cv.hp.com > > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3vjsb7%24qq7%40news.bu.edu > > > > Many of the programs were written by others but no credit > > was given. :-( > > > > > > Jordi > > > ---- > > > Well that's not the best of news (100% User-RPL), it'll be damn slow! > -But nontheless it's going to make reading the code easier - to which > end I'm up to the challenge of porting these sources to assembly > language (it will no doubt take a while -haven't got Holland's > compilation yet; haven't yet got a 49G+ yet either); but I'd be > itching to do it. > > For the lawyers among you - would there be issues porting this stuff > to machine language straight from Holland's compilations ?? > > > Manfred. ==== > I won't be able to start on this just yet thought - I've yet to order > Holland's compilation, and I still haven't got a HPs' latest release > (49G+); but when I do get started I'll be sure to post something to > that effect to this NG. > > One last remark, if you are looking for implementations of numerical > algorithms, you might want to have a look at the old Slatec library, > see http://www.netlib.org/slatec/. The library contains quite a few > higher mathematical functions as well, plus a wealth of more advanced > numerical algorithms. It is kind of old (o.k., for most of you guys it > is probably stone age, written as it is in Fortran IV), but the full > source code is available for free. At the very least, you can simply > copy some of the constants used for various functions out of there. > > -- Helen. ----- Many thanks, just what the doctor may have ordered! I'll take a look at this library - I hope it proves helpful. Fortran IV - definitely stone age. Luckily I've been brushing up on F77 & F90 for the last few months, as I've been porting ocean wave models from Fortran over to C++; though I haven't seen Fortran IV code before, I hope it won't be much of a problem. Manfred. ==== HI, You have forgotten improvement regarding plotting: -Enhanced conics plotting with as much features as the Classpad -3D parametric curves plotting(x(t),y(t),z(t)) -3D cylindrical and spherical surface plotting -Several 3D surfaces and curves on the same plot -Computations and drawing of intersections of 3D curves and surfaces,etc... Perhaps we should start a thread of suggestions for future HP calculators ? > X > As HP made clear in their presentation to the HPCC Conference almost > exactly a year ago now, they had a 3 stage strategy: > X > 3) Release genuinely new models. > > Phase 3 is just about to start so now is the time to have all those > really great ideas that will put HP ahead of the competition. > > Post them here because we know that HP lurk in this group but don't make > them too outrageous because a calc with built-in time machine so that > you can have extra time in exams just isn't going to happen. ;-) > > Suggestions for extra functions and application environments are > particularly useful. Students please note that just because you need > something for coursework, it doesn't mean that that function comes up > often in real life. So things that are useful to engineers as well get > extra points. Having said that, I've only ever used trigonometry once > for work so if I followed this advice, nothing would get added :-(. > X > After the introduction of the HP 28C it's time to finally add those > extra analytical functions [A]CSC/SEC/COT[H] > AND > make as many Commands to Functions as possible > like the statistical distributions and HMS+, etc. > Bring back the user-definable derivatives of the 48-series (derNAME) > as well as the APPLY and step-by-step EVALuation of the names. > Read the Bill Wicke's book of using APPLY to understand what I mean. > > Units in the EQW, [matrices] and {list} in the EQW (and command line) > Complex with units = (2_V,<)40_o), Symbolic Complex, Complex Solver > with ability to solve also the separate components (x,y) or (R,O) > Extended Reals/Complex + DIGITS integrated (Gjermund?) > Aplets & all the 39G plot modes + FRACT display mode. > Settings for grouping of digits on any real/bint/zint before/after radix > > ALL Wolfgangs work integrated + Emacs + Extable2 + Sdiag + Jazz Debug > > System Flash min 2MB, user min 2MB, preferable 4M+4M=8M > > EQNLIB back with etools to make your own additions. > > A reloadable error message table with tools for localization. > In case there is not even a French msglib, the ERRN is shown. > > Enhanced RISCH with a fast look-up table before the heurestics > to compensate for speed & found antiderivatives > > Did I forget anything? Oh yes: JYA's graphic toolkit is needed for greys. ==== > > One last remark, if you are looking for implementations of numerical > algorithms, you might want to have a look at the old Slatec library, > see http://www.netlib.org/slatec/. The library contains quite a few > higher mathematical functions as well, plus a wealth of more advanced > numerical algorithms. It is kind of old (o.k., for most of you guys it > is probably stone age, written as it is in Fortran IV), but the full > source code is available for free. At the very least, you can simply > copy some of the constants used for various functions out of there. I never understood why people (myself included) would use FORTRAN but this definitely looks like what I was searching for a while. Many thanks. For all the others, I have put my name down however be warned that I am currently experiencing modem problems and might have to bring back my laptop for a while so I may not be easily joinable. I still kind of read the NG Also I will soon get a 49G+ however I would be hoping that this project could be developped for everything from 48GX and maybe SX. Modularity would be good to be able to fit (part of) it in the 32k calcs Arnaud ==== > [snip ...] > > For all the others, I have put my name down however be warned that I am > currently experiencing modem problems and might have to bring back my laptop > for a while so I may not be easily joinable. I still kind of read the NG > Also I will soon get a 49G+ however I would be hoping that this project > could be developped for everything from 48GX and maybe SX. Modularity would > be good to be able to fit (part of) it in the 32k calcs > > Arnaud ---- Not connected for a while - no problem, I'm not intending on starting this project for another month at least (family issues - grandmother on death-bed; impending birth of my child; some travel in the next few weeks; and moving house) - though I'll be doing quite a bit of reading between then. Modularity is not such a bad idea but could blow out a large project into something much larger. I'd be willing to try it out, but how many of us still have a 48SX ?? - I for one got rid of mine (regretfully now), when I took up the 48GX; whence issues of using some of the older machines to run tests of what we write (though I still have a 48GX, 49G, and soon a 49G+ to add to the collection). -No double we'll be doing a lot of reading, and digging up archives to support all such platforms. In any case I'm all for it if it's managable, and we have all platforms we intend to support available for testing. Manfred. ==== I already sent to the group a message that say I made a mistake about that. Sincerely, CM > As I can see the new HP49G Plus should win the Oscar of make-up and > visual effects. Another marketing decision to try sell old supply of > old calcs that are on the left? > > My opinion only. > > Everyone is entitled to one, but I believe you are mistaken... > > You think it's a marketing decision to try sell old supply of old > calcs that are on the left... How so? The internals are much > improved, there are more features like bigger screen etc. > > The only faults I've seen are > > 1) Excessive power concumption when off -> This has already been fixed > in the new ROM! > > 2) Keyboard occasionally clicks when no keystroke has been registered > -> Problem has been seen on very early hardware - I'm confident that > this will be fixed in the future. The keys are still much better then > the 49G. > > Besides that, the machine is nice - faster, supports easy memory > upgrades and is very stable. > > Just my thoughts, > > Al ==== > but how many of us still have a 48SX ?? Roughly speaking, we are legion. ==== > > Modularity is not such a bad idea but could blow out a large project > into something much larger. I'd be willing to try it out, but how > many of us still have a 48SX ?? I guess we can emulate, I'll check when I got my laptop back Arnaud ==== > HI, > > You have forgotten improvement regarding plotting: > -Enhanced conics plotting with as much features as the Classpad > -3D parametric curves plotting(x(t),y(t),z(t)) > -3D cylindrical and spherical surface plotting plotting modes > -Several 3D surfaces and curves on the same plot > -Computations and drawing of intersections of 3D curves and surfaces,etc... > Perhaps we should start a thread of suggestions for future HP calculators ? YES! We may try! The new HP seems now quite responsive. I suggest foolowing enhancement requests: 1) Pretty print r*EXP(iO) as (r <)O) when the flag -27 is cleared This would finally allow complex polar mode with units 15._V*EXP(i*45._o) would show as: (15_V <) 45_o) *************************************************** 2) Save the CAS flags (and debug possible errors) before execution save them back just before result is displayed The error handling could be tricky, but no problem for JYA/Parisse 3) Bring along the ingenius CALC environment of the HP 71B to the command line (press shit&hold ENTRY) in ALG/RPL This would be really useful if also available from any command line 4) Bring back the units into the EQW !!! 5) How about a timer system similar to the 41CX/71B ?? A) An alarm should be allowed to RUN a forced program in a new Virtual Stack in a middle of any execution B) Stopwatch C) OS commands for handling the new TIMER functionality 6) Split screen and all other plotting features of the 39G(+) plus FRACT display mode, etc. could be imported to the 49G(+) 7) Make the Gremund Skailand's new Float library integrated with a nice display of (1.23F14,-9.04F-94432) using F instead of E ==== I purchased an hp49g+ from Singapore, serial No:CN33109123, but the connectivity program Conn4x is not able to locate the calculator. The connect using box identifies the calculator: HP9xg+ once you have plugged it in to the USB port, then you are instructed to press right red button and right arrow on the calculator, and the calculator displays Awaiting Server Cmd. On the computer you get Looking for calculator then an error message of Unable to open communications to HPx9G+ Any help would be appreciated. Andrew Buckwell ==== > I purchased an hp49g+ from Singapore, serial No:CN33109123, but the > connectivity program Conn4x is not able to locate the calculator. The > connect using box identifies the calculator: HP9xg+ once you have plugged it > in to the USB port, then you are instructed to press right red button and right > arrow on the calculator, and the calculator displays Awaiting Server Cmd. On > the computer you get Looking for calculator then an error message of Unable > to open communications to HPx9G+ Any help would be appreciated. Andrew > Buckwell see my reply in other threads. You need to press right-shift, RELEASE IT, then press right arrow. Display should now show Xmodem server... -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com ==== > see my reply in other threads. You need to press right-shift, RELEASE IT, then press right arrow. Display should now show Xmodem > server... > -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Bill Graves RKBA! > bgraves@ix.netcom.com We see here an interface issue with regard to shift at the same time as a key doing something different from shift and then a key. This has always bothered me. Heheheh... some grumpiness for your day. -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== Dont worry... I have already posted about this ... I cannot connect via USB .... and I am hitting right shift, release , right arrow ( display states that server mode has started ).... and I still cannot conect consistently. Qu1nn ==== > I have already posted about this ... > I cannot connect via USB .... > and I am hitting right shift, release, > right arrow ( display states that server > mode has started ).... and I > still cannot conect consistently. In case it's any consolation, I am having exactly the same problem. The Connectivity Kit doesn't seem to install a USB driver for the 49G+. Doesn't Windows 98 SE require a driver for USB peripherals? -Joe- ==== > The Connectivity Kit doesn't seem to install a USB driver for the 49G+. > Doesn't Windows 98 SE require a driver for USB peripherals? > > -Joe- The HPx9G+ driver is needed for all (including XP) Windows versions. I am not sure but I think that the install program does not install the drivers for some reason. Plug the calculator in and press ON. Does Windows say something like unknown USB device or does it say HPX9G+. If it says unknown device (or says nothing), then you will have to manually install the HP49G+ USB driver. 1. Get the latest version of the software from HP web at: http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/SoftwareDescription.jsp?loc ale=en_US&lang=English+%28US%29&pnameOID=351776&prodSeriesId=33568&prodTypeId =215348&basePartNum=COL4344&locBasepartNum=ca-14082-1&os=Microsoft+Windows+20 00&tech=Application 2. Go ahead and install this later version of Conn4x. (This will not solve your problem yet). 3. Use WinZIP and unpack the sp00001.exe that you downloaded in step 1. Don't RUN the program, use WINZIP and unpack the file. directory where you unpacked the files in step 3. Windows should select the HPx9G+ driver. Once the driver installs, Conn4x will start to see your calculator. I have it all working for me, here! -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com ==== Anyone else notice that hp's new logo/slogan is (use monospace font): you| ----- |hp (you + hp). For their RPN calculators, I would prefer you hp + Martin Cohen ==== Since the Dollar-Euro exchange rate goes up and down, I added the command EditU zu Unitman which makes adjustment of a user defined unit very easy. I added 2 examples. The last picture in Unitman.htm concerns money change and is perhaps the first HP49+ screen-shot on a public tools site. - Wolfgang http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/~raut/WR49/Unitman.htm ==== and is perhaps the first HP49+ screen-shot on a public tools > site... I think I beat you by a week :-) http://www.alpage.ath.cx/hptute/ cheers, Al ==== I am playing around with the 49G's ROM with nosy. Suppose I see a test somewhere that normally fails for some reason - and I want to jump over it. I guess I need to find the destination address and SYSEVAL it. Can anyone tell me how to do this? I normally use userRPL so please be gentle :-) cheers, Al ==== Is it true that there will be no 49G+ to 49G+ wire transfers capability? If this is true then this is a very large oversight on HP's part. Having the 49G+ be only a USB client and not aslo an USB host severely limits it uses IMHO. Having a much faster transfer speed, than that of the 48 series, opens up many possibilities for real time data collection and other things. Would it be possible to selct if you want the 49G+ to be a USB host or USB client, in software? Harold A. Climer Physics/Geology/Astronomy Lab Instructor U. Tennessee At Chattanooga ==== > Is it true that there will be no 49G+ to 49G+ wire transfers > capability? If this is true then this is a very large oversight on > HP's part. Having the 49G+ be only a USB client and not aslo an USB > host severely limits it uses IMHO. > Having a much faster transfer speed, than that of the 48 series, opens > up many possibilities for real time data collection and other things. > Would it be possible to selct if you want the 49G+ to be a USB host or > USB client, in software? Yes - but ofcourse - happy ARM9 coding, Harold... PS: I'm already missing the HP 71B IDS manuals now!!! ==== I suspect there's a hardware difference for USB client vs host, but I'm not sure about that. The IR transfer is back though, so that should provide equivalent functionality... though it'd require additional hardware on the other end. > Is it true that there will be no 49G+ to 49G+ wire transfers > capability? If this is true then this is a very large oversight on > HP's part. Having the 49G+ be only a USB client and not aslo an USB > host severely limits it uses IMHO. > Having a much faster transfer speed, than that of the 48 series, opens > up many possibilities for real time data collection and other things. > Would it be possible to selct if you want the 49G+ to be a USB host or > USB client, in software? > Harold A. Climer > Physics/Geology/Astronomy Lab Instructor > U. Tennessee At Chattanooga -- Brian Kaul ==== > I suspect there's a hardware difference for USB client vs host, but I'm > not sure about that. The IR transfer is back though, so that should > provide equivalent functionality... though it'd require additional > hardware on the other end. The ARM9 CPU should support USB host, too. It's up to you to find out the New Synthetic Programming > Is it true that there will be no 49G+ to 49G+ wire transfers > capability? If this is true then this is a very large oversight on > HP's part. Having the 49G+ be only a USB client and not aslo an USB > host severely limits it uses IMHO. > Having a much faster transfer speed, than that of the 48 series, opens > up many possibilities for real time data collection and other things. > Would it be possible to selct if you want the 49G+ to be a USB host or > USB client, in software? > Harold A. Climer > Physics/Geology/Astronomy Lab Instructor > U. Tennessee At Chattanooga > > -- > Brian Kaul > ==== > The ARM9 CPU should support USB host, too. > It's up to you to find out the New Synthetic Programming The Samsung processor in the 49G+ does support both USB host and device fucntions. However, they are supported on completely independent ports. In the 49G+, the USB device port is wired to the extenral connector, and the USB host port is not. There's no way to change this in software. ==== >> Is it true that there will be no 49G+ to 49G+ wire transfers >> capability? If this is true then this is a very large oversight on >> HP's part. Having the 49G+ be only a USB client and not aslo an USB >> host severely limits it uses IMHO. >> Having a much faster transfer speed, than that of the 48 series, opens >> up many possibilities for real time data collection and other things. >> Would it be possible to selct if you want the 49G+ to be a USB host or >> USB client, in software? > >Yes - but ofcourse - happy ARM9 coding, Harold... >PS: I'm already missing the HP 71B IDS manuals now!!! > Not really my forte', I'm afraid. I am just barely literate in User RPL, Unfortunately neither the Vernier ULI box nor the LabPro interface have IR transfer capability. I can get the ULI to talk to the 48GX and the 49G using the serial interface and vica versa. Have tried some smallstuff beyond what Daniel Rosa did My hopes and dreams have been dashed. Harold A. Climer Physics/Geology/Astronomy Lab Instructor U. Tennessee At Chattanooga ==== > The ARM9 CPU should support USB host, too. > It's up to you to find out the New Synthetic Programming > > The Samsung processor in the 49G+ does support both USB host and device fucntions. > However, they are supported on completely independent ports. In the 49G+, the USB > device port is wired to the extenral connector, and the USB host port is not. > There's no way to change this in software. BUT you still need a driver software - even if someone like Steve Sousa would give us detailed instructions to make a port available PS: Where are all the HW people? ==== >My hopes and dreams have been dashed. Before you let dash them, how about an IR to serial dongle/converter connected to t he device to be controlled? Pete M. Wilson Gamewood, Inc. wilsonpm@gamewood.net ==== >>My hopes and dreams have been dashed. > >Before you let dash them, how about an IR to serial dongle/converter >connected to t he device to be controlled? > >Pete M. Wilson >Gamewood, Inc. >wilsonpm@gamewood.net This might work, but again it is not built in. I was hoping for two way USB communications, calculator to calculator or calculator to lab interface, so that I could recommend a new HP to student that might be considering it over a TI. Anything that costs extra is another nail in the coffin. My students complain about having to buy and bring Graph Paper, rulers, etc to lab, let along an add-on to make a calulator work with a lab interface. I wonder if a stand alone USB to Serial interface is possible? Harold A. Climer Dept.Of Physics, Geology, and Astronomy U.T Chattanooga Chattanooga TN USA ==== New HP49G+ will come with an USB cable. That's fine if you have an computer with this connector. But if you have a computer, like for example a Pentium 233 or similar, you will have problems, because it does not support USB. I buy a webcam for my computes in 2001, it was an Pentium 233. I was forced to made an upgrade to an AMD 500 K6-2, to support USB. About 20 days ago I made other upgrade, this time to a Duron 1.4, that returns a clock of 950 MHZ (nominal value)! This time I was forced to buy a new sacnner because my old scanner has a port SCSI that is no longer supported for modern computers. If HP49G+ user own an old PC and intend to buy an HP49G+ and use wire transfer he will be forced to include a new PC in the chart list. Fortunately, greatest majory of HP users use computes that support USB ports. [] CM ==== > If HP49G+ user own an old PC and intend to buy an HP49G+ and use wire > transfer he will be forced to include a new PC in the chart list. Or if your PC has PCI slots, you could just spend $20-$30 and get a PCI add-in card to add USB ports to your system. Tom Lake ==== >>If HP49G+ user own an old PC and intend to buy an HP49G+ and use wire >>transfer he will be forced to include a new PC in the chart list. > > > Or if your PC has PCI slots, you could just spend $20-$30 and get a PCI > add-in card to add USB ports to your system. > The same can be said regarding scsi-cards, even though they are somewhat more expensive (but it should be easy to find a simple scsi-card for well under $100). / Magnus ==== In infinite wisdom Carlos Marangon answered: > > New HP49G+ will come with an USB cable. That's fine if you have an > computer with this connector. But if you have a computer, like for > example a > Pentium 233 or similar, you will have problems, because it > does not support USB. > > I buy a webcam for my computes in 2001, it was an Pentium 233. I was > forced to made an upgrade to an AMD 500 K6-2, to support USB. > > About 20 days ago I made other upgrade, this time to a Duron 1.4, that > returns a clock of 950 MHZ (nominal value)! This time I was forced to > buy a new sacnner because my old scanner has a port SCSI that is no > longer supported for modern computers. > > If HP49G+ user own an old PC and intend to buy an HP49G+ and use wire > transfer he will be forced to include a new PC in the chart list. > Fortunately, greatest majory of HP users use computes that support USB > ports. You can buy USB PCI cards to add USB ports. I bought a USB2 card for my computer which has only USB1.1. The card was $15 with a $10 rebate. I don't know of they make these cards for ISA, but as long as you have an open PCI slot you can add USB. Rich > [] > > CM ==== Dont worry.... I have a PC (PII400)with USB and windows XP pro and I am UNABLE to consistently (i.e. 1/20 is sucessful) connect the HP49G+ that I just purchased. (( the USB has never failed and has been working with my scanner / Pen drive for quite some time )) Anyone have suggestions? Qu1nn ==== > If HP49G+ user own an old PC and intend to buy an HP49G+ and use wire > transfer he will be forced to include a new PC in the chart list. USB ports now are the de-facto 'standard' ports for this type of devices. I bought my computer four years ago and I have only USB on it, no RS232. So the adoption of the industry standard on the g+ is very welcome : usb is here to stay, rs232 has disappeared or will disappear shortly. If there were no usb port on the calc, I would be forced to use an usb to serial adaptater... And all the computers bought is the past four years have USB on it. Most of the computers being used currently were bought in the last four years. So USB is the way to go... -- Thomas Deniau Unix is user friendly. It's just selective when choosing friends. ==== >> If HP49G+ user own an old PC and intend to buy an HP49G+ and use wire >> transfer he will be forced to include a new PC in the chart list. > USB ports now are the de-facto 'standard' ports for this type of > devices. I bought my computer four years ago and I have only USB on it, > no RS232. Well, that's true, but not good. I would argue that USB was a poor choice for the HP49G+, but I understand why HP made it. Here is my take on pros and cons of the two connection methods: RS232: Pro: Symetrical, so that the calculator can be used to control serial devices Easy to build hardware for Con: Slow Not on new computers Verdict: No functional downsides other than speed. USB: Pro: Fast, widespread and easy to plug and unplug Plug and play (pray?) Con: Not symetrical, so the calculator cannot control other devices Plug and pray (play?) Verdict: Useful for file transfer between calculator and computer. Not much else What I'm saying here is that USB actually seems to remove functionality from the wired connection port on the calculator. But at the same time, the only thing that keeps me from having zero serial devices is my HP48. What should HP have done? I have no idea. USB seems to take away as much as it adds. -Josh -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== > If there were no usb port on the calc, I would be forced to use an usb > to serial adaptater... And all the computers bought is the past four > years have USB on it. Most of the computers being used currently were > bought in the last four years. So USB is the way to go... Of course, those of us without USB ports would have to buy an adapter. So *somebody* gets shafted no matter what... However, I understand HP's decision (in *this* case!). As you said, newer machines have only USB, and it wouldn't be practical to expect USB *and* RS232 *and* IR all on a small handheld device like a calculator. I just wish other PC manufacturers didn't follow HP's practice of throwing away useful features (like RS232 ports) just because they've added something new. It's not an issue for me, since I won't be getting a 49G+ anyway. But my digital camera is broken, and I can't find a new one with a serial connection, so it looks like I'll have to get a USB card for my desktop PC after all. It's a good thing the automobile industry doesn't do things this way, or it wouldn't be possible to buy a car with a manual transmission; we'd all be stuck with automatics. -- Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== > In infinite wisdom Carlos Marangon answered: > > New HP49G+ will come with an USB cable. That's fine if you have an > computer with this connector. But if you have a computer, like for > example a > Pentium 233 or similar, you will have problems, because it > does not support USB. > > I buy a webcam for my computes in 2001, it was an Pentium 233. I was > forced to made an upgrade to an AMD 500 K6-2, to support USB. > > About 20 days ago I made other upgrade, this time to a Duron 1.4, that > returns a clock of 950 MHZ (nominal value)! This time I was forced to > buy a new sacnner because my old scanner has a port SCSI that is no > longer supported for modern computers. > > If HP49G+ user own an old PC and intend to buy an HP49G+ and use wire > transfer he will be forced to include a new PC in the chart list. > Fortunately, greatest majory of HP users use computes that support USB > ports. > > You can buy USB PCI cards to add USB ports. I bought a USB2 card for > my computer which has only USB1.1. The card was $15 with a $10 rebate. > > I don't know of they make these cards for ISA, but as long as you have > an open PCI slot you can add USB. > > Rich > > > [] > > CM Another option for users of older computers is a Serial to USB adapter. They're relatively cheap and work fairly well. ==== > It's a good thing the automobile industry doesn't do things this way, > or it wouldn't be possible to buy a car with a manual transmission; > we'd all be stuck with automatics. Here* I would say: It's a good thing the automobile industry doesn't do things this way, or it wouldn't be possible to buy a car with an automatic transmission; we'd all be stuck with manuals. :-) *Portugal -- Steve Sousa ==== Carlos Marangon scribbled: > > New HP49G+ will come with an USB cable. That's fine if you have an > computer with this connector. But if you have a computer, like for > example a > Pentium 233 or similar, you will have problems, because it > does not support USB. > > I buy a webcam for my computes in 2001, it was an Pentium 233. I was > forced to made an upgrade to an AMD 500 K6-2, to support USB. Why not add a PCI card with USB connectors? I've seen USB printers installed in Pentium 266 computers. -- ==== For my scanner it was possible to buy an ISA-PCI connector and PC board but it was more expansive than to buy a new scaner. CM > In infinite wisdom Carlos Marangon answered: > > > > New HP49G+ will come with an USB cable. That's fine if you have an > > computer with this connector. But if you have a computer, like for > > example a > > Pentium 233 or similar, you will have problems, because it > > does not support USB. > > > > I buy a webcam for my computes in 2001, it was an Pentium 233. I was > > forced to made an upgrade to an AMD 500 K6-2, to support USB. > > > > About 20 days ago I made other upgrade, this time to a Duron 1.4, that > > returns a clock of 950 MHZ (nominal value)! This time I was forced to > > buy a new sacnner because my old scanner has a port SCSI that is no > > longer supported for modern computers. > > > > If HP49G+ user own an old PC and intend to buy an HP49G+ and use wire > > transfer he will be forced to include a new PC in the chart list. > > Fortunately, greatest majory of HP users use computes that support USB > > ports. > > You can buy USB PCI cards to add USB ports. I bought a USB2 card for > my computer which has only USB1.1. The card was $15 with a $10 rebate. > > I don't know of they make these cards for ISA, but as long as you have > an open PCI slot you can add USB. > > Rich > > > > [] > > > > CM > Another option for users of older computers is a Serial to USB > adapter. They're relatively cheap and work fairly well. ==== Newer computers don't have serial. So there ==== I would say it is a good thing the automobile industry does things the computer way, or we would all be (not) driving cars that need leaded fuel. >> It's a good thing the automobile industry doesn't do things this way, >> or it wouldn't be possible to buy a car with a manual transmission; >> we'd all be stuck with automatics. > >Here* I would say: > > It's a good thing the automobile industry doesn't do things this way, > or it wouldn't be possible to buy a car with an automatic transmission; > we'd all be stuck with manuals. > >:-) > >*Portugal Pete M. Wilson Gamewood, Inc. wilsonpm@gamewood.net ==== > > >>If there were no usb port on the calc, I would be forced to use an usb >>to serial adaptater... And all the computers bought is the past four >>years have USB on it. Most of the computers being used currently were >>bought in the last four years. So USB is the way to go... > > > Of course, those of us without USB ports would have to buy an adapter. > So *somebody* gets shafted no matter what... However, I understand HP's > decision (in *this* case!). As you said, newer machines have only > USB, and it wouldn't be practical to expect USB *and* RS232 *and* IR > all on a small handheld device like a calculator. I just wish other PC > manufacturers didn't follow HP's practice of throwing away useful features > (like RS232 ports) just because they've added something new. It's not > an issue for me, since I won't be getting a 49G+ anyway. But my digital > camera is broken, and I can't find a new one with a serial connection, > so it looks like I'll have to get a USB card for my desktop PC after all. > > It's a good thing the automobile industry doesn't do things this way, > or it wouldn't be possible to buy a car with a manual transmission; > we'd all be stuck with automatics. > It's a lot harder to buy a manual than you think... ==== New computers don't support RS232.... ==== >> >> It's a good thing the automobile industry doesn't do things this way, >> or it wouldn't be possible to buy a car with a manual transmission; >> we'd all be stuck with automatics. >> > It's a lot harder to buy a manual than you think... Well, I did once deal with a car salesman who just couldn't seem to believe that I really wanted a manual. He kept trying to talk me into a different model than the one I wanted, and also kept pointing out that it had an automatic, even though I kept telling him I didn't WANT an automatic. I finally gave up and went to another dealer who was willing to sell me the car I actually wanted to buy. -- Wayne Brown | When your tail's in a crack, you improvise fwbrown@bellsouth.net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give | your pelt to the trapper. e^(i*pi) = -1 -- Euler | -- John Myers Myers, Silverlock ==== Can you name one such adapter? I have found numerous usb to serial adapters but so far no serial to usb adapters, which is what one would need to attach the hp-49g+'s cable to a computer with only serial ports and no way to install a usb card. rdb. > Another option for users of older computers is a Serial to USB > adapter. They're relatively cheap and work fairly well. ==== fast when the results are displayed the last prompt is also displayed, even though I had performed CLLCD. Can I get rid of this last prompt? This also, never happened in my 48GX. ==== > fast when the results are displayed the last prompt is also displayed, > even though I had performed CLLCD. Can I get rid of this last prompt? What last prompt? Can you please give an example? (no doubt WR will correct me later :) ==== > fast when the results are displayed the last prompt is also displayed, > even though I had performed CLLCD. Can I get rid of this last prompt? > What last prompt? > Can you please give an example? > (no doubt WR will correct me later :) Consider this program I have written to find the roots for a quadratic equation, aX2 + bX + c = 0 Ç 0 0 0 0 Ù A B C X Ç a? PROMPT 'A' STO b? PROMPT 'B' STO c? PROMPT 'C' STO B SQ 4 A * C * - 'X' STO X IF 0 < THEN CLLCD Roots Complex 3 DISP 7 FREEZE ELSE CLLCD STD A Eq SWAP + XÓ + B IF 0 > THEN + B + X + + ELSE B X + + END C IF 0 > THEN + C + + ELSE C + END = 0 + 1 DISP B NEG X ° + 2 A * / 2 FIX Root1 = SWAP + 3 DISP and 5 DISP B NEG X ° - 2 A * / Root2 = SWAP + 7 DISP 7 FREEZE 4 FIX END È È The symbol ° is square root. Ù is the -> symbol When the solution is displayed on the 49G+, the last prompt [i.e. c?] is also displayed at the top of the 49G+. But it isn't so in the GX. The GX screen only shows the solution. ==== X > When the solution is displayed on the 49G+, the last prompt [i.e. c?] > is also displayed at the top of the 49G+. But it isn't so in the GX. > The GX screen only shows the solution. You need a new ROM.... ==== HI! anyone knows where I can find programs for operations research for the hp48gx?? I would like to have programs for (in spanish, I dont know the names in english) teoria de redes(network analisis?), programacion dinamica (dinamic programing?), Teoria de colas (cue theory?), teoria de juegos (games theory?) and simulacion (simulation), if you know where I can find any of these I will be very gratefull, I have searched in hpcalc.org but I have only found a couple of programs thanks! greetings from Guadalajara, Mexico!! ==== You can search on www.hpcalc.org Si dices no saber ingl.8es, Àcomo es que est.87s en este grupo de Google y haces un posting en ese idioma? Creo que si sabes ingl.8es, mi tapat.92o amigo... Ahi te va: cola=queue din.87mica=dynamic an.87lisis=analysis Saludos desde Metl-Tepetl Edo. Mex. > HI! > anyone knows where I can find programs for operations research for the > hp48gx?? > I would like to have programs for (in spanish, I dont know the names > in english) teoria de redes(network analisis?), programacion dinamica > (dinamic programing?), Teoria de colas (cue theory?), teoria de juegos > (games theory?) and simulacion (simulation), if you know where I can > find any of these I will be very gratefull, I have searched in > hpcalc.org but I have only found a couple of programs > thanks! > > greetings from Guadalajara, Mexico!! ==== Gracias por los nombres en ingles, ya encontre dos programas que me sirven, uno para la ruta critica (pert) y otro para teoria de colas, por cierto no es que no se ingles, lo que pasa es que no me acordaba como se escribian los terminos en ingles ==== What is new? The BZ-tools in OT49+ had to be reprogrammed and are presently the only perfectly running BZ-tools on the HP49+. Clearly, much much faster now. Decompression of very large BZ-strings isn't noticable anymore. Also the togglers had to be reprogrammed since the Header needs extra treatment. It does not belong to HARDBUFF anymore. Filer5 allows HOME archiving and restoring in a choose box on key SPC and month in SDcards since these do presently not accept long names. - Wolfgang ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/tools/ ==== > What is new? > The BZ-tools in OT49+ had to be reprogrammed and are presently the only > perfectly running BZ-tools on the HP49+. Clearly, much much faster now. > Decompression of very large BZ-strings isn't noticable anymore. Also the > togglers had to be reprogrammed since the Header needs extra treatment. > It does not belong to HARDBUFF anymore. I can't seem to transfer the OT49+ library to my 49G+. The transfer looks as if its working and completes normally, but when I go to view the library in the var menu, it's not there. In order to get around this problem, I renamed the library from 'OT49+' to 'OT49P' and it worked fine. Doug ==== > I can't seem to transfer the OT49+ library to my 49G+. The transfer looks > as if its working and completes normally, but when I go to view the library > in the var menu, it's not there. In order to get around this problem, I > renamed the library from 'OT49+' to 'OT49P' and it worked fine. > > Doug Damned this reasonless intolerance of the HP49(+) ! I renamed OT49+ to OT49plus. The internal name in LIB menu OT49+ remains. Wolfgang ==== X Which of your tools here work on the new 49g+ ? > ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/tools/ Could you append + to the directories, which are + tested? eg OT49+ and Filers+ Naturally there should be a version for the old 49G. Everything tested for ROM >= 1.22. Please? ==== > I can't seem to transfer the OT49+ library to my 49G+. The transfer looks > as if its working and completes normally, but when I go to view the library > in the var menu, it's not there. In order to get around this problem, I > renamed the library from 'OT49+' to 'OT49P' and it worked fine. > > Doug > > Damned this reasonless intolerance of the HP49(+) ! I renamed OT49+ to > OT49plus. The internal name in LIB menu OT49+ remains. Remeber to update the documentation (OT49.htm) too! ==== > Which of your tools here work on the new 49g+ ? > ftp://ftp.math.fu-berlin.de/pub/usr/raut/HP49/tools/ > Could you append + to the directories, which are + tested? > eg OT49+ and Filers+ As long as Eric made no decision to open an extra section HP49+ I'll include in my tool packages another version for the 49+ only if this is indispensable, with corresponding hints in the docu. Isn't that the simplest solution? As to my experience hithertoo, most complex tools and libraries will need updating. A particular challenge is a modernization of the MIG (or MigBZ) lib. I guess it'll now be possible to compose in 3 or even 4 voices. - Wolfgang ==== Dear group, I need some help with scanner HP 2300C. carlos@areaseg.com. I use scanner to scan an opened HP48 to my site. And by the way, my site www.area48.com completed 5 years last august 19th and the domain name was renewed for more one year. Carlos >> any engineering student should know how to compute this: y^(1/x) > > Wow, didn't know it bothered you guys this much for someone to ask for a > get all uptight about helping someone out. I still think the help I received > was worth the risk of visiting this board and asking for help. > > This isn't a board. It's usenet. > > A beintot > Paul ==== Anyone know of a CAS command or SysRPL function that will rewrite polynomial P(s) = 4s^4+s^3+s^2+3s+6 as P(-s) = 4s^4-s^3+s^2-3s+6 Dave ==== 2: 4s^4+s^3+s^2+3s+6 1: 's=-s' SUBST SIMPLIFY -Jerrod > > Anyone know of a CAS command or SysRPL function that will rewrite polynomial > P(s) = 4s^4+s^3+s^2+3s+6 > > as P(-s) = 4s^4-s^3+s^2-3s+6 > > Dave > > ==== > > Anyone know of a CAS command or SysRPL function that will rewrite polynomial > P(s) = 4s^4+s^3+s^2+3s+6 > > as P(-s) = 4s^4-s^3+s^2-3s+6 > > Dave > > You can write your own. << { 's' '-s'} uparrowMATCH DROP >> will work in 48g's or 49's, or /<< 's=-s' SUBST />> will work on the 49's. . ==== > > Anyone know of a CAS command or SysRPL function that will rewrite polynomial > P(s) = 4s^4+s^3+s^2+3s+6 > > as P(-s) = 4s^4-s^3+s^2-3s+6 > > Dave Put the polynomial on stack. Then: s=-s SUBST. EXPAND if needed. ==== > Anyone know of a CAS command or SysRPL function that will rewrite polynomial > P(s) = 4s^4+s^3+s^2+3s+6 > > as P(-s) = 4s^4-s^3+s^2-3s+6 Why don't you SUBSTitute the variable s? '4s^4+s^3+s^2+3s+6' 's=-s' SUBST (you may also press EVAL to get rid of parenthesis) and you get '4s^4-s^3+s^2-3s+6' take care !Demeter! ==== Dave > > Anyone know of a CAS command or SysRPL function that will rewrite polynomial > P(s) = 4s^4+s^3+s^2+3s+6 > > as P(-s) = 4s^4-s^3+s^2-3s+6 > > > Why don't you SUBSTitute the variable s? > > '4s^4+s^3+s^2+3s+6' > 's=-s' > SUBST > > (you may also press EVAL to get rid of parenthesis) and you get > > '4s^4-s^3+s^2-3s+6' > > take care > !Demeter! ==== 1. The new connectivity kit Conn4x.exe does *not* activate option ROM for downloading ROM 1.22 in our WinXP-based network whatever is done. Even our experienced super-user was unable to upgrade my little HP49g+. We both tried to read the information on HP's Rom update site (which seems to have been written by somebody who has difficulties with a clear English :-) 2. In addition, this kit has the inacceptable habit of devouring 98% execution time of the WinXP-PC's CPU if it is left it the Task line after disconnecting the 49+. The only one can do is to kill the kit via the Task-Manager which may have other fatal consequences. - Wolfgang ==== > 2. In addition, this kit has the inacceptable habit of devouring 98% > execution time of the WinXP-PC's CPU if it is left it the Task line > after disconnecting the 49+. The only one can do is to kill the kit via > the Task-Manager which may have other fatal consequences. I'm experiencing the same problems as you. It's always after I disconnect the 49G+ that it sucks all the CPU usage. -- Douglas Rohm drohm@bellsouth.net ==== > 1. The new connectivity kit Conn4x.exe does *not* activate option ROM > for > downloading ROM 1.22 in our WinXP-based network whatever is done. Even > our experienced super-user was unable to upgrade my little HP49g+. We > both tried to read the information on HP's Rom update site (which seems > to have been written by somebody who has difficulties with a clear > English :-) Install the USB Device driver manually. Device Manager should say under Universal Serial Bus controllers: HPx9G+ DEVICE > 2. In addition, this kit has the inacceptable habit of devouring 98% > execution time of the WinXP-PC's CPU if it is left it the Task line > after disconnecting the 49+. The only one can do is to kill the kit via > the Task-Manager which may have other fatal consequences. > Huh? ==== > 1. The new connectivity kit Conn4x.exe does *not* activate option ROM > for > downloading ROM 1.22 in our WinXP-based network whatever is done. Even > our experienced super-user was unable to upgrade my little HP49g+. We > both tried to read the information on HP's Rom update site (which seems > to have been written by somebody who has difficulties with a clear > English :-) I was able to upgrade to 1.22 with Conn4x. The way I did it are: 1. I installed the USB driver from the enclosed CD that came with the calculator. 2. Installed the Connectivity kit. 3. Downloaded the 1.22 ROM from HP's web site. 4. Launched the ROM file (the .exe file that was downloaded in step 3). 5. Once step 4 finished, Conn4x was launched. I selected HPx9G+ for the port and left 9600 for the speed as its the default for USB (it doesn't use 9600 for speed). 6. I then pressed and held [+] and [-] and used a paper clip to reset the calculator, continue to hold [+] and [-] for 2 seconds then release. The Update and Self-Test menu then came up on the calculator. 7. Press 1 to Update ROM CODE. 8. I disconnected the USB cable from the calculator and plugged it back in. 9. Then press 1 to update via USB. 10. In Conn4x, in the dialog box thats open, select the 1.22 ROM file (hp49g22.bin) and click OK. 11. The ROM file should be downloading to your calculator at this point and when its complete, you will see a message saying it's finished, waiting for reset. Use the paper clip to reset the calculator and you should be done. Hope that helps. -- Douglas Rohm drohm@bellsouth.net ==== > 1. The new connectivity kit Conn4x.exe does *not* activate option ROM > for > downloading ROM 1.22 in our WinXP-based network whatever is done. Even > our experienced super-user was unable to upgrade my little HP49g+. We > both tried to read the information on HP's Rom update site (which seems > to have been written by somebody who has difficulties with a clear > English :-) Do you see the HPx9G+ in the Connect Using: drop down box? If this is selected then the ROM menu will be available. If it is not selected then no upgrade is possible because only a USB connect allows an upgrade. > 2. In addition, this kit has the inacceptable habit of devouring 98% > execution time of the WinXP-PC's CPU if it is left it the Task line > after disconnecting the 49+. The only one can do is to kill the kit via > the Task-Manager which may have other fatal consequences. Can you tell me exactly how this happens? Is the calculator actively connected to the PC when you break the connection? Please tell me the steps and I will investigate and fix the problem. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com ==== I just noticed that the version of the Connectivity Kit that comes with the calculator on the CD is build 1588. The version that you can download from HP's web site is build 1689. I was using build 1588 from the CD and had those same problems. I uninstalled that older build and installed build 1689 and am testing now. I'll let you know if I find any problems. -- Douglas Rohm drohm@bellsouth.net ==== > I just noticed that the version of the Connectivity Kit that comes with the > calculator on the CD is build 1588. The version that you can download from > HP's web site is build 1689. I was using build 1588 from the CD and had > those same problems. I uninstalled that older build and installed build > 1689 and am testing now. I'll let you know if I find any problems. Build 1689 should work pretty well. It has just a couple of minor bugs: Sorting by file size (listings) is done alphanumerically instead of numerically Sort by size or type, click a sub-directory and get out-of-bounds error. Cut of files did not put files on clipboard. After deleting a file, the Edit menu did not allow Delete, Rename or Properties for the next selected file. Maybe an update soon! -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com ==== various symbols. It works great on the 48GX. The problem is that on the 49G and 49G+ it shows a decimal point after the degrees, minutes and seconds. e.g. on the 48GX it looks like 49d 34m 34s, on the 49G and G+ it looks like 49.d 34.m 34.s [ that's three extra digits on the display line ]. The same thing happens with my acres, roods and perches program. Any way to get rid of those decimals? ==== As you extract each numeric part, use R->I (real-to-integer) before appending to the string. (in CONVERT menu) > various symbols. It works great on the 48GX. The problem is that on > the 49G and 49G+ it > shows a decimal point after the degrees, minutes and seconds. > e.g. on the 48GX it looks like 49d 34m 34s, on the 49G and G+ it looks > like > 49.d 34.m 34.s [ that's three extra digits on the display line ]. > The same thing happens with my acres, roods and perches program. Any > way to get rid of those decimals? ==== Using unitman I have create the unit Btu/(¡F*ft^2*h). This variable is in home now. I want to hide it. I use the usually process used for all the ather variable but the program What should I do? ==== > Using unitman I have create the unit Btu/(¡F*ft^2*h). > This variable is in home now. > I want to hide it. > I use the usually process used for all the ather variable ... What usual process? The OS of an HP4x doesn't support variable hiding, in no case. That may be ok for the older models but IMHO, the 49+ with its practically unlimited memory should support it. Whatever happens, my filers (in particular Filer5 for the 49+ from the Filers package on my site below) do support it. And hiding/unhiding one or several files is unbelievably fast on the 49+. convince yourself whether the name really contains a unit. Note that also a real is a (dimenionsless) unit, for instance, the money unit $. - Wolfgang http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/~raut/WR49/ ==== Mauro Scozzi ha scritto nel messaggio > Using unitman I have create the unit Btu/(¡F*ft^2*h). > This variable is in home now. Ciao Mauro > I want to hide it. > I use the usually process used for all the ather variable but the program Io utilizzando quest'ultima non ho avuto alcun problema a nascondere la variabile. Ciao e fammi sapere Kickaha ==== I dropped my calculator this morning and since then the on key functions intermittently. It always work if I press ON+F3, or any other combination with F keys. Does any body have an idea of what can I do? (yes, I know, wait until the HP49G+ arrives to U.S.A. and buy one.....) Marturo ==== I need to convert the bode graphing program from HP48g to HP49g, the program is available in http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/math/misc/bodepack.zip, but I dont know where to begin because thera are two libraries tha need to be modified, If someone can do it you'll be making a gread favor to all electrical engineers. Please write me to rmloria@msn.com ==== > I need to convert the bode graphing program from HP48g to HP49g, the > program is available in > http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/math/misc/bodepack.zip, but I dont know > where to begin because thera are two libraries tha need to be > modified, If someone can do it you'll be making a gread favor to all > electrical engineers. Please write me to rmloria@msn.com I had been planning to do it. I am going to give it a try this week end and report back to this NG Arnaud ==== I never took the time to send it to HpCalc.org. http://www3.sympatico.ca/france.vallieres/BodePack49.zip Sorry. Alain > I need to convert the bode graphing program from HP48g to HP49g, the > program is available in > http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/math/misc/bodepack.zip, but I dont know > where to begin because thera are two libraries tha need to be > modified, If someone can do it you'll be making a gread favor to all > electrical engineers. Please write me to rmloria@msn.com > > I had been planning to do it. > I am going to give it a try this week end and report back to this NG > > Arnaud > > ==== BodePack49 is now uploaded to hpcalc.org. Alain > > I never took the time to send it to HpCalc.org. > > http://www3.sympatico.ca/france.vallieres/BodePack49.zip > > Sorry. > > Alain > ==== > > BodePack49 is now uploaded to hpcalc.org. > > > Alain > > > I never took the time to send it to HpCalc.org. > > http://www3.sympatico.ca/france.vallieres/BodePack49.zip > > Sorry. > > Alain > > > people using non supported entries in the 48. BodePack was nicer. Arnaud ==== hi ng, does anybody know how to programm f.e. this given: matrice A,P, as global variables vektor l as global variable calculation: x=A*((A'*P*A)^-1)*A'*P*l ^-1 : inverse ' : transpose I want to programm this line, so that any time in run it it takes he given values and calculates the result. does anyone know how to?? thx peter ==== Is there (going to be) a section of hpcalc devoted to the 49g+? How 'bout the other new calculators? Martin Cohen ==== > Is there (going to be) a section of hpcalc devoted to the 49g+? > How 'bout the other new calculators? > > Martin Cohen I think the site is in for a *slight* redesign. Why is there a Calculator Software category that contains all HP48S and HP48G software, mixed together, with one subcategory for the HP28 series, and then a whole seperate category for HP49 software? Eh? Time to do about an hour of work to fix this! Heh. -Josh -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== Well Martin & Joshua, Why don't you volunteer to do some of the work for the improvements that you mention. I'm sure that constructive criticism backed up by an effective offer of assistance would not be turned down. You should be aware the Eric provides this site for absolutely no personal gain other than the satisfaction of supporting the HP calculator community. > Is there (going to be) a section of hpcalc devoted to the 49g+? > How 'bout the other new calculators? > > Martin Cohen > > I think the site is in for a *slight* redesign. Why is there a Calculator > Software category that contains all HP48S and HP48G software, mixed together, > with one subcategory for the HP28 series, and then a whole seperate category > for HP49 software? Eh? Time to do about an hour of work to fix this! > > Heh. > > > -Josh > > -- > -Joshua Belsky > jjbelsky@yahoo.com > http://belsky.net > ==== All I want is the word Calculator in Calculator Software changed to HP48 and HP28 Software. That's not much. :) -Joshua > Well Martin & Joshua, Why don't you volunteer to do some of the work for > the improvements that you mention. I'm sure that constructive criticism > backed up by an effective offer of assistance would not be turned down. > You should be aware the Eric provides this site for absolutely no personal > gain other than the satisfaction of supporting the HP calculator community. >> Is there (going to be) a section of hpcalc devoted to the 49g+? >> How 'bout the other new calculators? >> >> Martin Cohen >> >> I think the site is in for a *slight* redesign. Why is there a Calculator >> Software category that contains all HP48S and HP48G software, mixed > together, >> with one subcategory for the HP28 series, and then a whole seperate > category >> for HP49 software? Eh? Time to do about an hour of work to fix this! >> >> Heh. >> >> >> -Josh >> >> -- >> -Joshua Belsky >> jjbelsky@yahoo.com >> http://belsky.net >> -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== > All I want is the word Calculator in Calculator Software changed to > HP48 and HP28 Software. That's not much. :) then send it a new image with the new phrase as a suggestion to eric. (this way may be faster) > > -Joshua > > Well Martin & Joshua, Why don't you volunteer to do some of the work for > the improvements that you mention. I'm sure that constructive criticism > backed up by an effective offer of assistance would not be turned down. > > You should be aware the Eric provides this site for absolutely no personal > gain other than the satisfaction of supporting the HP calculator community. > > > >> Is there (going to be) a section of hpcalc devoted to the 49g+? >> How 'bout the other new calculators? >> >> Martin Cohen >> >> I think the site is in for a *slight* redesign. Why is there a Calculator >> Software category that contains all HP48S and HP48G software, mixed > together, >> with one subcategory for the HP28 series, and then a whole seperate > category >> for HP49 software? Eh? Time to do about an hour of work to fix this! >> >> Heh. >> >> >> -Josh >> >> -- >> -Joshua Belsky >> jjbelsky@yahoo.com >> http://belsky.net >> ==== >> All I want is the word Calculator in Calculator Software changed to >> HP48 and HP28 Software. That's not much. :) > then send it a new image with the new phrase as a suggestion to eric. > (this way may be faster) contacted me.) I think that the agreement we came to was that neither of us is an artist. -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== > post and contacted me.) I think that the agreement we came to was that > neither of us is an artist. Eric is really a great guy. Hard to find people as dedicated as him to things he does.. And best of all: for free! ==== Jean Yves, I agree with you. [] CM > post and contacted me.) I think that the agreement we came to was that > neither of us is an artist. > > Eric is really a great guy. Hard to find people as dedicated as him to > things he does.. And best of all: for free! > ==== as it is the syseval that open matrix write of the HP 49g? Because I that the one of hp48 is 44c31h syseval but in the one of the 49 not it and and not tried to put this of the 48 in the 49g by fear to that it erases all my file. Good thanks to any aid. ==== blmhsr$c5s$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it... > Mauro Scozzi ha scritto nel messaggio > Using unitman I have create the unit Btu/(¡F*ft^2*h). > This variable is in home now. > Ciao Mauro > > I want to hide it. > I use the usually process used for all the ather variable but the program > Io utilizzando quest'ultima non ho avuto alcun problema a nascondere la > variabile. nasconde. comunque ho risolto il problema utilizzano il filer di W.R. > Ciao e fammi sapere > Kickaha Grazie > > ==== Is there a way that a program can know if an SD card is in port 3? Is it possible to get a list of files and free memory available in the card, I tried <<3 PVARS>> and I got PORT NOT AVAILABLE. It would also be nice to access the card faster by avoiding the calc to look for files types. Any help will be wellcome Jorge Cevallos ==== > > Is there a way that a program can know if an SD card is in port 3? how about IFERR 3 PVARS THEN 0 END Luis ==== That just gives 2: 3 1: 0 > > Is there a way that a program can know if an SD card is in port 3? > > how about IFERR 3 PVARS THEN 0 END > > Luis of programs stored in port 3. It is kind of a direct acces manager. You can download it from next adress: http://www.geocities.com/jorgecevallosm/stosd.zip ---------------------------------------------------- Type: Library 1515 Size: 284 bytes Crc: #55523d (#D8E3h) Author: Jorge Cevallos M. This little library is a direct access manager to SD card. It includes commands STOSD, RCLSD, PURGESD STOSD: ------ Given an object and an ID (same arguments as STO), it stores that object in port 3 (SD) and saves a direct access in current path. If a library is in level 2, the program converts it to a program by adding '::' and ';', so it can be stored in port 3 without Invalid DOS name error. Ex: 2: Library 1515: STO SD 1.0 1: 'StoSd10.LIB' [STOSD] STOSD stores next program in '3:STOSD10.LIB': :: Library 1515: STO SD 1.0 ; And next program in 'StoSd10.LIB', wich is the direct access: 3.: StoSd10.LIB EVAL When this direct access is executed, it runs the original program stored in SD card or returns it to stack if it can't be run (such as a list, a dir, etc). Note that if it is a library (like in this example), the result will be the library without '::' and ';', ready to be stored in a port and installed. RCLSD: ------ Given the name of a program created by STOSD (the direct access), it returns the content of the program stored in SD card without running it. Ex: 1: 'StoSd10.LIB' [RCLSD] ---> 1: :: Library 1515: STO SD 1.0 ; PURGESD: -------- Given the name of a program created by STOSD (the direct access), it purges both the direct access and the original object stored in SD. By the moment, you can't change the name of the direct access created by STOSD or the other two commands won't work with it. To change the name, you have to recall it (with RCLSD), purge it (with PURGESD) and restore it with the new name (with STOSD). A good use of this program is to have and 'index' of the SD card, you can have a dir with subdirs that contain direct access to SD. It would be a good idea to assign <<1515 MENU>> to a key (for example to long-hold STO key with KeyMan+). I hope this library will be usefull for you. Jorge Cevallos M. ==== > of programs stored in port 3. It is kind of a direct acces manager. a really good SDcard manager should look as follows: A brower on all object names of the SD-card, with the options STO, RCL, EVAL etc in the browser menu. Access to the VARS menu or other ports should be granted. (which is no problem for my filers, except for the SD-card which doesn't like long names). Till now all available filers including the builtin filer do not yet conveniently manage the SDcard. And your library seems not to do it either. It makes little sense to have a RCL option for SD-card objects if one doesn't precisely remember the name. IMHO, your lib should at least include an SDcard viewer. - Wolfgang ==== > Is there a way that a program can > know if an SD card is in port 3? Unfortunately, PVARS does not work on port 3 of the 49G+ at this time. An inelegant but functional solution is to store a variable called 'PID' (Port ID) in each port, containing each port's number. After that setup, :3:PID VTYPE returns -1 when port 3 contains no card. A better solution would be greatly appreciated. -Joe- ==== > of programs stored in port 3. It is kind of a direct acces manager. > > > a really good SDcard manager should look as follows: A brower on all > object names of the SD-card, with the options STO, RCL, EVAL etc in the > browser menu. Access to the VARS menu or other ports should be granted. My little library was not meant to be a complete SD manager, I'm just starting learning SysRpl and I can't write such a program. But it does work with long names. If you put in level 2 and 'LongNameNumber1' in level 1 and run [STOSD] and the and 'LongNameNumber2' and run again [STOSD], then both of them work fine. When you go to port 3 using the filer, you see small names for those objects but when you run the direct access created by [STOSD], each one runs and respectivly. Again, that name will not be fine in a filer, but the direct access will work well. > (which is no problem for my filers, except for the SD-card which doesn't > like long names). I know, your Filers are great programs, I use the last version of them in my 49g+. >Till now all available filers including the builtin > filer do not yet conveniently manage the SDcard. And your library seems > not to do it either. It makes little sense to have a RCL option for > SD-card objects if one doesn't precisely remember the name. The argument for [RCLSD] is the name of the direct access created by [STOSD], so you don't have to remember that name. You just press '' and the softkey that represents that direct access stored in HOME or wherever you saved it. >IMHO, your > lib should at least include an SDcard viewer. I can't do that because I just know a little SysRpl. But a nice solution would be to have direct accesses for every single object stored in SD (using [STOSD]) in a dir and go to that dir with the filer. My library is meant to be a very little start for a really SD manager. It would be great that you or any other experienced HP programmer write that program. ==== >How long did it take for the CNXXXXXXXXXX serial number HP49s to come out? > >They had a noticeably better screen cover, and marginally better keyboard. > More importantly, they came with the connectivity cable and both manuals, small as they were. I got my chinese HP49 for Christmas the year the original HP49 was released. Bill alternate E-dress wtstorey@ieee.org.no.spam.please (Use the obvious) ==== I recently got a 2MB RAM card with a dead battery. The guy who sold it to me said that it has a 10-year battery soldered to the card. Well, evidently its been 10 years because it loses its information when you take it out of the calculator. I have never soldered anything, is there any place I can get the battery changed without having to pay as much as I would for a new card? If anyone wants to take this project on I have a 256k RAM card I can ship you for the trouble. ==== I just need to learn how to read! ==== I wonder if one of you kind mathematician types might be so kind as to post a ROM Image of the new HP49g+ on the Handango website so that I can update my pocketpc with this new addition to the HP line. I now have the Emu48CE - HP48/49 Calculator by J-Soft and it would be nice to add this new ROM to my alternative calculator emulations. At 400mhz, my Dell Axim can speed through my work in the field at very efficient speed. Here is the full URL for those interested in adding the ROM to the right place. http://www.handango.com/PlatformProductDetail.jsp?productType=2&optionId=1_2 _2&jid=E48BBD3DE6362X77FAXA4DAXFXC6D7AD&platformId=2&siteId=1&productId=55118 §ionId=0&catalog=30&txtSearch=hp48 Many thanks for your continued courtesy and cooperation. ==== > I wonder if one of you kind mathematician types might be so kind as to > post a ROM Image of the new HP49g+ on the Handango website so that I > can update my pocketpc with this new addition to the HP line. I doubt the HP49G+ rom image will work in Emu48; at least not for a while ==== Empiezo a preocuparme porque no ha salido todavia el emulador de la hp49+, si esperan que me la compre sin antes ver si realmente mejora en algo. Y otra cosa que co.96o pasa con la rom de hp49g, hasta que no vendan bastantes hp49+ no van a aceptar que hay que volver a la hp49g? En fin, siendo fan aferrimo de las hp, empiezo a pensar que de verdad quieren que cambiemos de marca. ==== means that the calc. is running ROM-version R which is the latest, right? I've been offered to buy a 48G+ (without manual and cable) in good condition for around 45 euro - does this sound as a fair price? -- /Jesper ==== > means that the calc. is running ROM-version R which is the latest, > right? several years. -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== >> means that the calc. is running ROM-version R which is the latest, >> right? > > several years. OK - all 48G+ uses the latest ROM then. Is there anything else to look for then? Any difference in keyboard or display quality? -- /Jesper ==== >>> means that the calc. is running ROM-version R which is the latest, >>> right? >> >> several years. > OK - all 48G+ uses the latest ROM then. Is there anything else to look > for then? Any difference in keyboard or display quality? two types of keyboards. The displays, it can be argued, each have good qualities. The newer keyboards with the painted-on legends aren't as good as the older ones with the molded-in legends. Honestly, you'd be better off getting a Singapore HP48GX. -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net <10gs505v42ovt.1lj8a8xqbs88l.dlg@40tude.net> ==== > The newer keyboards with the painted-on legends aren't as good > as the older ones with the molded-in legends. > Aren't as good in what way? the physical keyboard is made of the same material and with the same manufacturing process. Tactile feedback will be identical. The only difference I found with the molded-key one is that it doesn't look as good. ==== > >> means that the calc. is running ROM-version R which is the latest, >> right? > > several years. > > OK - all 48G+ uses the latest ROM then. Is there anything else to look > for then? Any difference in keyboard or display quality? > Yes, you won't have slots for plug in program cards or additional memory with the + you need the GX. > > /Jesper ==== > Aren't as good in what way? > the physical keyboard is made of the same material and with the same > manufacturing process. Tactile feedback will be identical. > The only difference I found with the molded-key one is that it doesn't > look as good. agrees that they'd prefer the old keys with the molded-in legends. Hence, if somebody is planning on buying a used 48 series, they should look for one that has that type of keys. Surely you can't argue with that! -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== > > >> >>>> means that the calc. is running ROM-version R which is the latest, >>>> right? >>> >>> several years. >> >> OK - all 48G+ uses the latest ROM then. Is there anything else to look >> for then? Any difference in keyboard or display quality? >> > > Yes, you won't have slots for plug in program cards or additional memory > with the + you need the GX. > I know - the GX is preferable but I haven't been able to find any at a decent price. Saw a G+ in good condition for sale for around 45 euros and thought it would be better than no calc. ;o) My plan would be to get this G+ and then later upgrade to a GX or 49G+ when I know a little more about the calcs and what they can and can't do. -- /Jesper ==== I write to ask if someone here knows how to prevent (in SysRPL) the ROOT command to save in the local dir the variable whose it is solving for... There's an elegant and efficient way (E.g. manipulating the return stack, or so) to do that or I must purge the variable manually after the command finished? Kickaha -- Per rispondere rimuovere il SiPAriuM To reply remove the SiPAriuM ==== > I write to ask if someone here knows how to prevent (in SysRPL) the ROOT > command to save in the local dir the variable whose it is solving for... Not sure but have you tried using a local name instead? http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=e5939a32.0107142137.19034ac3%40posting. google.com ==== > > I write to ask if someone here knows how to prevent (in SysRPL) the ROOT > command to save in the local dir the variable whose it is solving for... > > Not sure but have you tried using a local name instead? > > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=e5939a32.0107142137.19034ac3%40posting. google.com Thx a lot Jordi. I've searched the google groups databse but I wasn't able to find something useful... Bye, Kickaha ==== URL: http://www.finseth.com/rpnrpl.html Copyright: 2002-3 by Craig A. Finseth Archive-name: computer/handhelds/rpn-rpl RPN/RPL Implementations Document id RPN/RPL Implementations http://www.finseth.com/rpnrpl.html Contact: Craig A. Finseth http://www.finseth.com Copyright This FAQ document is Copyright 2002-3 by Craig A. Finseth. It may be reproduced and archived as part of normal network distribution. Such distribution is assumed to include CD/ROM or other bulk, unedited distribution. It may be reproduced for individual or non-commerical use provided that it is reproduced intact. It may be reproduced for commercial use provided: o it is reproduced essentially intact including all copyright notices and acknowledgements, o the publisher obtains the latest version directly from the FAQ maintainer (using the above WWW site is acceptable), o the publisher provides the FAQ maintainer with information on what collection the copy of the FAQ is in, and how that collection may be obtained, o all material modifications (other than formatting) are clearly marked. Description This document provides a list of implementations of RPN, RPL, and HP calculators for other systems. You can help make it more comprehensive by sending me additional information and/or updates. To be included in this list, an implementation must: o implement at least a standard 4-level RPN calculator. Minor variations (e.g., 3 or 5 levels) do not preclude being listed. Implementations that include both RPN and algebraic modes are eligible. o implement an RPL calculator. o implement a clone (or near-clone) of any Hewlett-Packard calculator, even if it is an algebraic-only model. The following information is included for each implementation: The *NAME* line contains the name of the implementation. Implementations are listed alphabetically by name. If the implementation emulates or approximates a specific calculator and it is not obvious from the name which calculator is emulated, the emulated calculator model is given in parentheses. The *LAST* *CHANGED/VERIFIED* line contains the date that the entry was last changed or an explict looks ok to me was received by the FAQ maintainer. The *ORIGINAL* *DISTRIBUTION* is the date (or partial date) of the first release. It is in YYYY-MM-DD format. The *VERSION* is the latest known version. It is probably out of date. The *ENVIRONMENT* is the operating environment. This is a very high-level description: consult the documentation on the product for any specifics. The *ORGANIZATION* is the name of and contact information for the implementor or current maintainer. The *STATUS* is one of o no longer available: Self-explanatory. o free: The implementation is available to most people at no charge. Even such free implementations may have restrictions: consult information about the particular implementation. Where available, information on how to obtain a copy is also listed. o shareware: Self-explanatory. o not free: The implementation is for sale. Contact the vendor for specifics. Many of the names of the implementations in this list are trademarked. Specific trademarks are not called out. Implementations Available for PCs: DOS, Windows, Macintosh, Unix Calc41 name: Calc41 last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: ? environment: Windows organization/author: ? status: not free Note: was sold by EduCALC. Emu28 name: Emu28 (includes 28C) version: ? environment: ? organization/author: Christoph Giesselink http://privat.swol.de/ChristophGiesselink/emu28.htm status: free Emu48 name: Emu48 (includes 38G, 29G, 40G, 48SX, 48GX, 49G) last changed/verified: 2002-12-03 version: 32 environment: Windows organization/author: Christoph Giesselink http://privat.swol.de/ChristophGiesselink/. status: free Emu48 name: Emu48 last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: ? environment: Windows organization/author: Sebastien Carlier status: free HP Emulator name: HP Emulator (48GX) last changed/verified: 2002-10-29 version: 0.9.0 environment: Windows organization/author: Daniel Nilsson http://sourceforge.net/projects/hpemu status: free HP10BII Emulator name: HP10BII Emulator (48GX) version: ? environment: Windows organization/author: ? http://www.hpcc.org/links.html status: free HP-16C name: HP-16C last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: ? environment: Windows organization/author: Joseph M. Newcomer Co. http://www.pgh.net/~newcomer/hp16c.htm status: free Note: Palm version also available. HP-16C name: HP-16C version: preview environment: Java organization/author: Alexander Supalov supalov@foni.net http://home.foni.net/~supalov/hp16c status: free Note: It's available for online preview at http://home.foni.net/~supalov/hp16c . It's implemented using Swing, so that you may need to add Sun's Java plugin at http://java.sun.com/plugin to get it up and running. This is an ongoing effort, and there's a number of limitations to this emulator that we are well aware of, but there may be some that we've missed. Please bear with us: all constructive feedback will be highly appreciated. HP-25 Emulator name: HP-25 Emulator last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: ? environment: DOS organization/author: Nigel Bromley http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/square/gd86/freesoft.htm status: free HP-41C Emulator name: HP-41C Emulator last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: ? environment: Windows organization/author: Warren Furlow http://www.furlow.org status: free HP-41C Emulator name: HP-41C Emulator (Sim41?) last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: ? environment: DOS organization/author: Alvaro Gerardo Suárez http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Bay/4919/ http://geocities.com/algesuar status: free HP-41C, HP-45 Emulators name: HP-41C, HP-45 Emulators last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: ? environment: XWindows, Unix organization/author: Eric Smith http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/hpcalc/ status: free HP-41C, HP-71B Emulators name: HP-41C, HP-71B Emulators version: ? environment: DOS organization/author: J. Garnier http://membres.lycos.fr/jeffcalc/ status: free HP-67 Simulator name: HP-67 Simulator last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: ? environment: Unix, Apple GS organization/author: Christopher Neufeld http://caliban.physics.utoronto.ca/neufeld/hp67/hp67.html status: free Loki and LokiBin name: Loki and LokiBin last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: 1.0 environment: many organization/author: Craig Finseth http://www.finseth.com/#Loki status: free Note: Several implementations, including: command-line for Windows, Macintosh OS X, and Unix; system manager versions for HP95LX, HP100*, and HP200*; native GUI for Windows, Macintosh OS 8+ and OS X. Loki is a 4-function RPN calculator that does fractional input and output and units. LokiBin is a 4-function RPN calculator that does binary / octal / hex transformation and math. Pscalc95 name: Pscalc95 (HP-28ish) version: ? environment: HP95 and similar organization/author: http://ftp.monash.edu.au/pub/palmtop/pscalc.lzh status: free RPL/2 name: RPL/2 (?) version: ? environment: ? organization/author: http://www.makalis.fr/~bertrand/rpl2 status: free Ttcalc name: Ttcalc (HP-41C) last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: 1.3? environment: Windows organization/author: http://www.hpmuseum.org/simulate/simulate.htm http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/ftp-home/pub/cica-win3/desktop/ttbcalc13.zip status: free WRPN name: WRPN (HP-16C) last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: ? environment: Windows organization/author: http://www.hpmuseum.org/simulate/simulate.htm status: free X48 name: X48 (HP-16C) version: 1.2 of the port, 0.4.1 of the original emulator environment: Macintosh organization/author: Markus Fritze http:www.markus-fritze.de status: free Xxxx name: Xxxx version: ? environment: Windows (probably) organization/author: Craig Pearce status: free Said to emulate an HP style RPN calculator. Written in Visual Basic. Implementations Available For Palm Systems Coconut name: Coconut (HP-41C) last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: 3.0.3 environment: Palm organization/author: ? status: both free and not free HP-16C name: HP-16C last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: ? environment: Palm organization/author: Joseph M. Newcomer Co. http://www.pgh.net/~newcomer/hp16c.htm status: free Note: Windows version also available. Kalc name: Kalc last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: 3.0.3 environment: Palm organization/author: ? status: free MathU name: MathU last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: ? environment: Palm organization/author: ? status: not free Note: related to MathU Pro and PalmCalc. MathU Pro name: MathU Pro last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: ? environment: Palm organization/author: ? status: not free Note: related to MathU and PalmCalc. NeoCal name: NeoCal last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: 1.5 environment: Palm organization/author: ? status: not free P41CV name: P41CV version: 0.11 environment: Palm organization/author: Charles Lee status: not free (only $7, though) Palm16c name: Palm16c (HP-16C) last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: ? environment: Palm organization/author: Jake Schwartz status: not free PalmCalc name: PalmCalc last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: ? environment: Palm organization/author: ? status: not free Note: related to MathU and MathU Pro. PowerOne name: PowerOne last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: ? environment: Palm organization/author: ? status: not free Note: The finance version is the only one offering RPN. RPN name: RPN last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: 3.04 environment: Palm organization/author: http://www.palmgear.com status: not free RPN Calculator 1.0.1 name: RPN last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: 1.0.1 environment: Palm organization/author: ? status: free Implementations Available for Psion Systems DCalc name: DCalc (RPN) version: ? environment: Psion organization/author: Bob Hepple http://sedumi.freeshell.org/psion/index.html PocketIQ status: shareware Multifunction RPN Calculator name: Multifunction RPN Calculator (HP-16Cish) version: ? environment: Psion organization/author: Derek Johnson http://www.freeuk.net/decca status: shareware Psion48 name: Psion48 (similar to HP48SX) version: 2.1 environment: Psion organization/author: Xavier Galante http://Psion48.free.fr status: shareware Implementations Available for Windows CE Systems HP-41C Emulator name: HP-41C Emulator last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: ? environment: WindowsCE organization/author: Warren Furlow http://www.furlow.org status: free Loki and LokiBin name: Loki and LokiBin last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: 1.0 environment: JavaScript organization/author: Craig Finseth http://www.finseth.com/#Loki status: free Note: JavaScript implementation tuned for Windows CE implementation and screen size. Loki is a basic RPN machine and LokiBin does binary/octal/hex transforms and math. Implementations Available for the Web CoCalc, CoCalc2 name: CoCalc CoCalc2 last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: ? environment: Java organization/author: http://www.cohort.com/ status: free HP-25 name: HP-25 last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: ? environment: Java organization/author: http://www.hpmuseum.org/simulate/simulate.htm status: free HP-35 Simulation name: HP-35 Simulation last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: ? environment: JavaScript organization/author: Neil Fraser http://www.hpmuseum.org/simulate/simulate.htm status: free HP-45 Microcode Simulator name: HP-45 Microcode Simulator last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: ? environment: Java organization/author: Eric Smith http://www.hpmuseum.org/simulate/simulate.htm status: free Loki and LokiBin name: Loki and LokiBin last changed/verified: 2002-10-21 version: 1.0 environment: JavaScript organization/author: Craig Finseth http://www.finseth.com/#Loki status: free End ==== Sorry... This one's worth it though... especially if you have a 320x480 ************* Addition: Implementations for Palm: ...an **incredible** HP48SX, HP48GX, and HP49G emulator for PalmOS 4.1-5.0 machines. Note: In my experience, it runs MUCH better on an (ARM-powered) OS 5.0 device. Power48 -- http://power48.mobilevoodoo.com/ name: Power48 version: v1.0 environment: Palm organization/author: status: free -azdude ==== http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/03/09/24/217234.shtml?tid=100&tid=137&ti d=146&tid=173&tid=187&tid=99 ==== This is a first time post.. and I am looking forward to using this group often. I am a Land Surveyor that has used a 48 with momemade programs to control several serial devices since way back in the days of the SX. I still us a 48GX to this day. I am very much looking forward to jumping to the 49G+ as soon as it arrives. I carefully examined the 850 page PDF file that was referenced many posts ago, and can find no reference to the continued existence of the the commands XMIT and BUFLEN. Can someone please post the status of thes two commands, and as much detail regarding serial communication on the USB /and or IrDA. John Evers ==== I'm also interested in seeing some information on these commands, if they are still available. > This is a first time post.. and I am looking forward to using this > group often. I am a Land Surveyor that has used a 48 with momemade > programs to control several serial devices since way back in the days > of the SX. I still us a 48GX to this day. I am very much looking > forward to jumping to the 49G+ as soon as it arrives. I carefully > examined the 850 page PDF file that was referenced many posts ago, and > can find no reference to the continued existence of the the commands > XMIT and BUFLEN. Can someone please post the status of thes two > commands, and as much detail regarding serial communication on the USB > /and or IrDA. > > John Evers ==== John Evers schrieb im Newsbeitrag > This is a first time post.. and I am looking forward to using this > group often. I am a Land Surveyor that has used a 48 with momemade > programs to control several serial devices since way back in the days > of the SX. I still us a 48GX to this day. I am very much looking > forward to jumping to the 49G+ as soon as it arrives. I carefully > examined the 850 page PDF file that was referenced many posts ago, and > can find no reference to the continued existence of the the commands > XMIT and BUFLEN. Can someone please post the status of thes two > commands, and as much detail regarding serial communication on the USB > /and or IrDA. At least both commands (XMIT, BUFLEN) are still listed in the CAT-list. Roman > John Evers ==== Has somebody already successfully sent a 49+ screen-shot to the PC? How did you do it? The option in File doesn't work in WinXP. - Wolfgang ==== I could not establish an USB connection between my PC and the brand-new HP49+, and I do not know why? I installed the Connectivity kit, and when I tried to install the USB driver, there is always an error message (after accepting the licensing conditions) like Please connect USB cable between calculator and PC to start the driver installation also when there is a proper cable connection. What can I do? What could be the reason for the problem? Klaus Graichen graichen@mvtat.tu-freiberg.de Wolfgang Rautenberg schrieb im Newsbeitrag > > Has somebody already successfully sent a 49+ screen-shot to the PC? How > did you do it? The option in File doesn't work in WinXP. > > - Wolfgang ==== First question is whether the computer actually has the USB port enabled? If you can use it in other applications then it must be something with the setup of the Connectivity Kit. But if you have never tried to use the USB port before, it may not be enabled. You may have to physically move a jumper on the motherboard or change a setting in the BIOS. IBM Thinkpad computers have a 'Configuration' program which allows you to make changes which are normally in the BIOS settings of a desktop. Check those settings first. I spent a few hours last week attempting to connect to my HP48GX with a serial cable, through a serial port which was turned off....Very very frustrating... Geoff > I could not establish an USB connection between my PC and the brand-new > HP49+, and I do not know why? I installed the Connectivity kit, and when I > tried to install the USB driver, there is always an error message (after > accepting the licensing conditions) like Please connect USB cable between > calculator and PC to start the driver installation also when there is a > proper cable connection. What can I do? What could be the reason for the > problem? > Klaus Graichen > graichen@mvtat.tu-freiberg.de ==== > I could not establish an USB connection between my PC and the brand-new > HP49+, and I do not know why? I installed the Connectivity kit, and when I > tried to install the USB driver, there is always an error message (after > accepting the licensing conditions) like Please connect USB cable between > calculator and PC to start the driver installation also when there is a > proper cable connection. What can I do? What could be the reason for the > problem? Download the newer version connectivity kit and drivers from HP. http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/DriverDownload.jsp?pnameOID =351776&locale=en_US&taskId=135&prodSeriesId=33568&prodTypeId=215348&swEnvOID =228 Install the software When you install the drivers: Turn the calculator ON. Plug in the cable. Windows should ask for a driver. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com ==== > Has somebody already successfully sent a 49+ screen-shot to the PC? How > did you do it? The option in File doesn't work in WinXP. Wolfgang, it works fine on lots of XP machines (no known problems on XP). The File menu says Copy Ctrl+C which means that the screen shot is copied to the Windows Clipboard ready for pasting into a document. Some screen capture programs capture to a file, this one copies to the clipboard. Also what build are you using (Help / About) -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! bgraves@ix.netcom.com ==== On the PC using winXP: 1. Start Conn4x: 2 Set Connect using to HPx9G+ 3. Choose option File -> capture calculator screen. on the HP49G+: ON (hold) + uparrow. And the calculator screen is displayed on the PC screen. If you are connected using Xmodem, you'll have to disconnect first. Arnold > >Has somebody already successfully sent a 49+ screen-shot to the PC? How >did you do it? The option in File doesn't work in WinXP. > >- Wolfgang ==== > > Wolfgang, it works fine on lots of XP machines (no known problems on XP). > The connectivity is not running fine for me on my Spanish WinXP-Prof box. I'm having the same problems Steve Sousa report in september: When there is directories to show in the right ListView the program start to give an error List Index Out of Bounds on each element of the list. I'm using the last version from HP. Does any body else have this type of problems.... Luis ==== Luis, This is a known bug when you click either the column label size or type. Click the column label Files, close the program and start again and the problem will not happen. The bug will be fixed in the next release. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Graves RKBA! > The connectivity is not running fine for me on my Spanish WinXP-Prof > box. I'm having the same problems Steve Sousa report in september: > When there is directories to show in the right ListView the program > start to give an error List Index Out of Bounds on each element of > the list. ==== the electronic SD card write protection (which can be usually enabled through a little dip switch) is not working on a HP49G+. If you write protect your SD card, you can nevertheless store items on it with the HP49G+ STO command or the filer. I tried it with a freshly bought 64 MB panasonic SD card; the write protection works on my (duh...;)) CE device, but not on the HP49G+. Its not a big issue, but it would be nice, if it would be working: you can protect your valuable data from accidentally deleting it. Mathias -- Mathias Habel mathias.habel_no-spam_@t-online.de Remove _no-spam_ before replying ==== > the electronic SD card write protection (which can be > usually enabled through a little dip switch) is not > working on a HP49G+. If you write protect your SD > card, you can nevertheless store items on it with > the HP49G+ STO command or the filer. That's correct. The 49g+ ignores the write-protect switch. I'll bet the reason was to avoid the agony of reading years of posted debates on this newsgroup regarding the best way to override the switch. (-; -Joe- Patient: Doctor, it hurts when I do this. Doctor: Then don't DO that. ==== >> If you write protect your SD >> card, you can nevertheless store items on it with >> the HP49G+ STO command or the filer. >That's correct. The 49g+ ignores the write-protect switch. I'll bet >the reason was to avoid the agony of reading years of posted debates >on this newsgroup regarding the best way to override the switch. (-; Yes, but think about this *interresting challenge*...;) Mathias -- Mathias Habel mathias.habel_no-spam_@t-online.de Remove _no-spam_ before replying ==== >> the electronic SD card write protection (which can be >> usually enabled through a little dip switch) is not >> working on a HP49G+. If you write protect your SD >> card, you can nevertheless store items on it with >> the HP49G+ STO command or the filer. > That's correct. The 49g+ ignores the write-protect switch. I'll bet > the reason was to avoid the agony of reading years of posted debates > on this newsgroup regarding the best way to override the switch. (-; > -Joe- > Patient: Doctor, it hurts when I do this. > Doctor: Then don't DO that. The fact that it is even *possible* to ignore the write-protect switch on a Secure Digital card casts a dark shadow on the word secure in its name. -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== >Does anybody know how can avoid this type of message? Emigrate to Mars... -- Bruce Horrocks Surrey England ==== I have always used Yellow computings transfile for downloading UserRPL files to the 48G and 49G. It won't work with the 49G+, and so am trying to use Con4x. For example: %%HP: T(3)A(D)F(.); << test >> If this is saved to a file using notepad, is it possible to send it directly to the G+ using Con4x? Dave ==== circuit ? Programming in ML, USER or System ? Or where I can get some information about it ? ==== > circuit ? Programming in ML, USER or System ? You can use userRPL easily... Just type the string string to send, eg Google groups search for xmit in comp.sys.hp48 will give you more info. cheers, Al ==== A year ago I could have been like all my peers and gotten a Ti 83 but (As I want to be an engineer and also I'm super nerd) I went with the HP 49G instead. So far I've been able to get along just fine. This was in part due to the fact that my teacher last year rarely used a calculator period. Anyway I'm having a few troubles now figuring out the HP Equivalent of a few Ti things and wondered if you guys could help me. I've been looking up and down Google but hopefully somebody else will come up with better search terms or just knows this stuff. We're graphic quadratic forumulas. I don't know what the proper name is to be honest but it's basically where you get 2 or 3 sqiggely lines stuck together a'la roller coaster. Problem 1: Once you've graphed on the Ti you can hit {Calc} {Value} to which the calculator prompts X= you give it an X and it gives you a Y and jumps to that spot on the graph. I can trace my line but sometimes it does things like jump from (1.988 , 0.234) to (2.033 , 0.132) and what I really need is (2, Y). I realize I could just plug in 2 for x and solve the equation but if the Ti can automate this than the HP ought to be able to. Problem 2: Minimum and Maximum. The Ti has another button that will tell you how high and how low the function goes on the graph. HP equivalent?? We've touched on how to do this stuff by hand, but the reality is that now days Math is taught using Calculators and if you can't drive your calculator you can get stuck in the dust. My sister has a Ti I could borrow but I've found just from borrowing other classmates calculators that my brain is stuck in RPN mode and I have a really hard time thinking Algebraically Ryan ==== My best answer regarding the first question would be to use the TABLE application and try zooming in or out to get the desired (x,y) pair you seek. There is no prompt function with corresponding jump to wherever on the graph displayed without leaving the graph menu. With regard to the second question, on the graph bottom menu there is the FCN (functions)category with the EXTR (extremum) button available for that particular purpose. It works in conjunction with the cursor, that is, it seeks for either a local maximum or minimum in the immediate neighborhood of the cursor. In a congested graph move the cursor under or over any extreme point and press that button to get the (x,y)coordinates. I hope I served you well !Demeter! ==== > We're graphic quadratic forumulas. I don't know what the proper name > is to be honest but it's basically where you get 2 or 3 sqiggely lines > stuck together a'la roller coaster. I'm not sure what you mean. I guess you're graphing a quadratic polynomial? > Problem 1: Once you've graphed on the Ti you can hit {Calc} {Value} to > which the calculator prompts X= you give it an X and it gives you a > Y and jumps to that spot on the graph. I can trace my line but > sometimes it does things like jump from (1.988 , 0.234) to (2.033 , > 0.132) and what I really need is (2, Y). I realize I could just plug > in 2 for x and solve the equation but if the Ti can automate this than > the HP ought to be able to. No idea about the equivalent of Calc->Value. For the second question, you could try reducing the step size (I don't know what the default is on the HP49G... it's 2 pixels on the 68k). To do this, press BlueShift and F2 to go to the Window Editor and change the Step value. > Problem 2: Minimum and Maximum. The Ti has another button that will > tell you how high and how low the function goes on the graph. HP > equivalent?? Dunno... F6:EXTR maybe? -- Bhuvanesh ==== No it probably isn't possible to do the X= thing, but so what? You just trace the line until you get to the appropriate point. Pressing FCN (function) will give lots of interesting things wrt the graph, like min/max, areas under the curve, and derivative plots - and roots. As far as a quadratic or cubic or come to that any order polynomial goes the only really interesting things are the roots. And as they are quite possibly complex the graph is no good (neither is TIs I would think). Use the formula, you can get most of what you need much quicker and more accurate than the graph - take the first and second derivatives to get turning points. Imo the graph is only generally useful for getting the general shapes of function curves. Dave > A year ago I could have been like all my peers and gotten a Ti 83 but > (As I want to be an engineer and also I'm super nerd) I went with the > HP 49G instead. So far I've been able to get along just fine. This was > in part due to the fact that my teacher last year rarely used a > calculator period. > > Anyway I'm having a few troubles now figuring out the HP Equivalent > of a few Ti things and wondered if you guys could help me. I've been > looking up and down Google but hopefully somebody else will come up > with better search terms or just knows this stuff. > > We're graphic quadratic forumulas. I don't know what the proper name > is to be honest but it's basically where you get 2 or 3 sqiggely lines > stuck together a'la roller coaster. > > Problem 1: Once you've graphed on the Ti you can hit {Calc} {Value} to > which the calculator prompts X= you give it an X and it gives you a > Y and jumps to that spot on the graph. I can trace my line but > sometimes it does things like jump from (1.988 , 0.234) to (2.033 , > 0.132) and what I really need is (2, Y). I realize I could just plug > in 2 for x and solve the equation but if the Ti can automate this than > the HP ought to be able to. > > Problem 2: Minimum and Maximum. The Ti has another button that will > tell you how high and how low the function goes on the graph. HP > equivalent?? > > We've touched on how to do this stuff by hand, but the reality is that > now days Math is taught using Calculators and if you can't drive your > calculator you can get stuck in the dust. My sister has a Ti I could > borrow but I've found just from borrowing other classmates calculators > that my brain is stuck in RPN mode and I have a really hard time > thinking Algebraically > > Ryan ==== It is known that: a*(-a)^n = -(-a)^(n+1) I am not complaining that the HP49 can't do it - though would be nice if someone knows a way. The annoying thing is that the calc evals (-a)^n as e^(nLn(a))*e^(i*n*nPi) even though set to real mode. It doesn't ask, just automatically switches. I know the answer is correct but it doesnt help much if you're trying to simplify a difference equation! Dave ==== > The annoying thing is that the calc evals (-a)^n as e^(nLn(a))*e^(i*n*nPi) > even though set to real mode. It doesn't ask, just automatically switches. If you want it to ask, just turn off flag -120. Albert ==== Hy, Is anybody that can help me ? I have an HP 48 SX. What is the name of the softwares selled with HP serial cables to connect the HP 48 SX to a PC and to a MAC ) ? fischbach.david@free.fr ==== > Hy, > > Is anybody that can help me ? I have an HP 48 SX. What is the name of the > softwares selled with HP serial cables to connect the HP 48 SX to a PC software (uncountable) sold... > and to a MAC ) ? No need to buy anything! Almost any terminal software should work - I've connected a Sun SPARC workstation using kermit to my HP49. For PCs you can use HPComm (look on www.hpcalc.org). I'm not aware of much Mac software for use with HPs. That might be because I've hardly ever used a Mac. A bientot Paul -- Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth) Surgery: ennobled Gerald. ==== > Is anybody that can help me ? I have an HP 48 SX. What is the name of the > softwares selled with HP serial cables to connect the HP 48 SX to a PC > and to a MAC ) ? I've used ZTerm. It works flawlessly. Michael -- -= Michael Hoppe , =------ ==== > Hy, > > Is anybody that can help me ? I have an HP 48 SX. What is the name of the > softwares selled with HP serial cables to connect the HP 48 SX to a PC > and to a MAC ) ? > > fischbach.david@free.fr > The software that I got with the serial pack for the HP48GX was called wfile48.exe ... came on a floppy....there were several other files. I cannot say whether or not it works for a mac or not. HTH qu1nn ==== Is there any software improvement in the new HP 49G+ compared to that of the HP 49G? If so, could anybody define it? ==== > Is there any software improvement in the new HP 49G+ compared to that > of the HP 49G? Yes. > If so, could anybody define it? There's a description on the HP web site. http://www.hp.com/calculators/ ==== In infinite wisdom Eric Smith answered: > >>Is there any software improvement in the new HP 49G+ compared to that >>of the HP 49G? > > > Yes. > > >>If so, could anybody define it? > > > There's a description on the HP web site. > http://www.hp.com/calculators/ Odd, I don't see the 49G+ mentioned at all. Rich ==== In infinite wisdom Rich answered: > > > In infinite wisdom Eric Smith answered: > >> >>> Is there any software improvement in the new HP 49G+ compared to that >>> of the HP 49G? >> >> >> >> Yes. >> >> >>> If so, could anybody define it? >> >> >> >> There's a description on the HP web site. >> http://www.hp.com/calculators/ > > > Odd, I don't see the 49G+ mentioned at all. But I just noticed that the HP17BII+ is now on the HP website. and http://www.hp.com/calculators/financial/17bIIplus/ US internet price: $99.99** Rich > Rich > ==== > Is there any software improvement in the new HP 49G+ compared to that > of the HP 49G? If so, could anybody define it? > There's a description on the HP web site. > http://www.hp.com/calculators/ > Odd, I don't see the 49G+ mentioned at all. I haven't checked this week, but as of last week a search for 49G+ or 48GII turned up some stuff. The official US intro date for the 49G+ is October 6, if memory serves, so it should be easier to find official information then. I was wondering if anyone knew how to get the value Z when the erf(Z) is known. For example: erf(Z)=.72, what is Z? I can do it using the table in my textbook, but I would prefer not to have do that on a test. I avoid typing numbers as much as possible. I thought about doing it using a table and approximating it, but the program that would do that would be very slow. The other idea I had was using the integral defintion of UTPN, but that would require me solving an integral equation, and I don't think I've had enough math for that. Anyone have any ideas? --CS ==== -=[ Thu, 25.9.03 4:56 p.m. +1200 (NZT) ]=- > I was wondering if anyone knew how to get the value Z when the erf(Z) is known. > For example: > > erf(Z)=.72, what is Z? If you have an HP28/48/49 , then <<0 1 X UTPN 2 * 1 - ERF +>> is a solver equation for X and ERF. This definition of ERF gives ERF=.682689 for X=1. And for your ERF=.72 it gives X=1.0803 This may not be your erf(z) - I see in A&S it is different - there they effectively use variance of .5 instead of 1, so if you want that then use <<0 .5 X UTPN 2 * 1 - ERF +>> That would give X=.7639 when erf=.72 If your calc has no UTPN then there are approximations which are pretty good. -- Tony Hutchins Wellington New Zealand #130 Where there is an open mind, there will always be a frontier. Charles F. Kettering ==== -=[ Thu, 25.9.03 6:27 p.m. +1200 (NZT) ]=- in message ID <11149901ROBOTLX@news.cis.dfn.de> : > This may not be your erf(z) - I see in A&S it is different - > there they effectively use variance of .5 instead of 1, so if > you want that then use <<0 .5 X UTPN 2 * 1 - ERF +>> > That would give X=.7639 when erf=.72 No, Tony, wrong - this erf uses X*(root 2), so <<0 1 X 2 SQRT * UTPN 2 * 1 - ERF +>> is the equation, and gives .76390 - oh, the same answer - ahha they must be equivalent - but this form is better for the UTPN approximations as these are for mean=0, variance=1. -- Tony Hutchins Wellington New Zealand #105 An ounce of discretion is worth a pound of learning. Proverb ==== > -=[ Thu, 25.9.03 6:27 p.m. +1200 (NZT) ]=- > > > in message ID <11149901ROBOTLX@news.cis.dfn.de> : > > This may not be your erf(z) - I see in A&S it is different - > there they effectively use variance of .5 instead of 1, so if > you want that then use <<0 .5 X UTPN 2 * 1 - ERF +>> > That would give X=.7639 when erf=.72 > > No, Tony, wrong - this erf uses X*(root 2), so > <<0 1 X 2 SQRT * UTPN 2 * 1 - ERF +>> > is the equation, and gives .76390 - oh, the same answer - ahha > they must be equivalent - but this form is better for the > UTPN approximations as these are for mean=0, variance=1. I wasn't able to get the above program to work. I changed it so that it started by putting something in for X, but it still didn't work. It says Plus Error: bad argument type. The value at that time is -.67183. It look like the program is doing the following: UTPN(0,1,X*SQRT(2)) then multiplying that number by 2, subtracting 1, taking the error function of that number, then adding something (this is is where the error is generated). This is my error function program which is loosely taken from Urroz's book: << -> A << 1 2 0 1 A 2. sqrt * UTPN * - >>> This gives me the right, values according to the table I'm looking at. Is there another erf that maybe returns two values? Also, could you direct me to somewhere that could maybe show me how --CS ==== -=[ Fri, 26.9.03 09:21 a.m. +1200 (NZT) ]=- in message ID <55447677.0309251236.62354209@posting.google.com> : [...] > <<0 1 X 2 SQRT * UTPN 2 * 1 - ERF +>> > is the equation [...] > I wasn't able to get the above program to work. It is a solver equation - I ran it by typing it in and storing it in ERFZ, then right-shift NUM.SLV F2 (CHOOS) select the ERFZ and press OK Now you have 2 variables showing called X and ERF You can solve for either one. Just move the cursor to the one you want to put a value in, type the value and press OK, then move to the other and press F6 (Solve) > I changed it so that it started by putting something in > for X, but it still didn't work. It says Plus Error: bad > argument type. The value at that time is -.67183. Ah, sorry I did not explain. It takes nothing from the stack, and will only solve in solver. It does leave a zero on the stack if X and ERF correspond. I should have called it ERFZ.EQ The NUM.SLV application for equations is a bit like a Blacksmith - you tell it which variable to solve for and it pounds away until the expression has zero value, which means you have your answer :) It probably gave that error because there was nothing in ERF. But, don't worry about that - it is only for use by the Blacksmith :) > It look like the program is doing the following: > > UTPN(0,1,X*SQRT(2)) then multiplying that number by 2, subtracting 1, > taking the error function of that number, then adding something (this > is is where the error is generated). Yup, that's it. > This is my error function program which is loosely taken from Urroz's > book: > > << -> A << 1 2 0 1 A 2. sqrt * UTPN * - >>> Yup that is the same formula. Good I must have got it right. But with the great UTPN we have on the 48/49 that formula can be simplified to > << -> A << 1 2 0 .5 A UTPN * - >>> I also prefer the first equation I gave: <<0 .5 X UTPN 2 * 1 - ERF +>> > This gives me the right, values according to the table I'm looking at. > Is there another erf that maybe returns two values? Basically, no. There are numerical approximations, involving empirically determined coefficients. I'm real pleased you didn't need to use those. > Also, could you direct me to somewhere that could maybe > how things work. I hope the above helps. I don't have Urroz's book but he function - which evaluates erf. You could probably use that function in an equation. If you call his function ERFX then this would be a solver equation equivalent to mine: << X ERFX ERF ->> I'm just pleased you have a 48/49 to work with. I was worried you might only have a 32S or something. I enjoyed trying to help as this is pretty new to me too, so I learned something :). Plus I can now reproduce all those erfx in A&S Table 7.1. -- Tony Hutchins Wellington New Zealand ==== I will have to learn more about the numeric solver, I'm still not sure how the solver program worked, but I will get it if I look at it some more. I knew the 49 would do it, I just hadn't figured out how to convince it to do it. --CS ==== > > erf(Z)=.72, what is Z? > Something similar has come up before: Define ERFC as << -> X << 0. 0.5 X UTPN DUP + >> >> Then, since Erf(z) = 1 - Erfc(z), you want to know z for which Erfc(z) = 0.28 'ERFC(z)=0.28' 'z' 1.0 ROOT gives you .763901131736 Werner ==== The recent posts about the new HP-49G+ are prompting me to start a thread on what would be the best specs for a new calculator. Maybe, since not all users have the same needs, there could be separate specs for machines aimed at different type of users. Although, with programmability, a machine like the 49 can please nearly all users. The only use of specificaly designed machines would be to lower the price. Some will remember the machines of the 70s aimed at scientific works and those aimed at financial works. Then, for a programmable and customizable machine I simply write: 1 - Same power as the 49G (or G+ since it it faster) 2 - Same memory or larger than 49G. 3 - Same screen as the 49G+ (it appears to be better than the 49G) or larger (more pixels). 4 - Same keyboard quality as the 41CX. This is an efficient input device that allows you to type numbers as fast as you can. Its hinged keys and positive tactile feedback are amoung the best. The double injection keys are also extremely durable. The keys, being raised a lot from the calculator faceplate are easy target for fingers, enhancing the usability. On the 48 serie the raise was less but these keyboards were also very good. 5 - RPN minded keyboard layout with the ENTER key at its usual place and with its original size like all HP machines up to the 48 serie. After all, RPN was one of the big factor, with high quality, that put these machines in a class by themselves. 6 - Keyboard with most often used math function directly accessible. A calculator is made to calculate, so the keys shall give an immediate access to math. The keyboard shall be as less cluttered as possible and the label contrast shall be top notch. Forget trends and fashions for that. The light blue shinny faceplate of the 49G is not very good in that respect. All other machines, prior to that one used dark faceplate with ligth colored labels. these are readable even in low light. Not so for the 49G. I dont know for the 49G+. 7 - Overall feel of the HP-35/45/65/67. Those who had such a machine in their hand will understand what I mean by a solid and comfortable feel. The ergonomics of a calculator must take into account the human hand. The vertical format is the way to go. The 48 serie and 49 serie is not that bad in that aspect. They need to be taller because of the display. And the 49G case is even less twistable than the one of the 41CX. 8 - Same batteries life as the 48 serie or the 49G or a recahrgeable battery. The 41C serie was offered with 4 N size batteries that lasted quite well if the calculator was used alone but these could be exhausted in a day or two with heavy use of the card reader. Then HP came with a rechargeable battery pack that gave more or less the same autonomy but was less expensive in the long run. So a new calculator shall have a powerfull rechargeable battery. The ideal would be two packs plus an external charger and the possibility of plugging the calculator and recharging the pack inside the machine, like that was the way with the 41 serie. 9 - Good documentation. This also was one of HP's great point in the past. I precise...in the past. My 45/25/41CX/48SX all came with very good documentation. My 49G, well..enough has been written in that group on that topic. And, some will remember, apart from a few good programs available on the net, nothing comes close to what was available for the HP67/97/41C/41CV/41CX as the Solution Books, the users contributed programs (1000s of them) and the PPC magazine. 10 - Packaging. The clear plastic throw away packing of my 49G was a big step back from the hard case that came with my 45 in 1974. In the 70s, HP calculators were expensive and were nearly considered as jewel (which they were in fact). HP showed that by carefull packaging. Then, with time they revert to cardboard boxes then to clear plastic wraps. Is this a symptom of their level of consideration for these machines ? I know that packaging has a cost but when you are ready to pay big $ for a machine you expect to see quality in every aspect of it. The last comment in point 10 apply to nearly everything in HP calculators of today. The power has increased but just about everything else has dropped in quality. The keyboard, the reliability, the documentation, the packaging. It is no wonder that, in my office, I see a lot of HP 48 and 41 on engineers desks but I am the only one with a 49G. The fact is that I also see a lot of Casio, Sharp and TI machines. HP is loosing the few it had. Too bad. I will pass on the 49G+ and wait and hope for the next serie. I still hope that HP peoples are reading these posts. Jean (Johnny) Lemire from Richelieu, Quebec, Canada. ==== > nothing comes close to [...] the PPC magazine. Datafile - the journal of HPCC - does ... sort of. While it is true usually excellent. I personally enjoy its unpredictability, Wlodek's Butler's encyclopaedic knowledge of User-RPL, and most recently, Albillo's and Hutchins' pieces (hopefully, Tony's book will help me understand those double-trouble cases! ;) Admittedly, overseas members of HPCC cannot enjoy the same benefits as local members, but if you like to read worked and documented Jordi ----- http://www.hpcc.org/datafile.html http://www.hpcc.org/membership.html http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/th/mfc.htm -- ==== X > Then, for a programmable and customizable machine I simply write: > 1 - Same power as the 49G (or G+ since it it faster) more, More, MORE: When USB power is connected I want to go to the max! > 2 - Same memory or larger than 49G. More Flash: 2MB for OS + 2MB for libraries > 3 - Same screen as the 49G+ (it appears to be better than the 49G) or > larger (more pixels). yes! maybe OMAP CPU and twice as much pixels in both directions? That would keep it compatible and give smoother curves to plot. > 4 - Same keyboard quality as the 41 X Yes! > 5 - RPN minded keyboard layout with the ENTER key at its usual place Now that the leys beside the cursor keys have shrunk one could fit in two more keys and then shift the ENTER back! > 6 - Keyboard with most often used math function directly accessible. X > dark faceplate with ligth colored labels. ok, and bring back the ability to use keyboard overlays. > 7 - Overall feel of the HP-35/45/65/67. X > And the 49G case is even less twistable than the one of the 41CX. Good! > 8 - Same batteries life as the 48 serie or the 49G or a recahrgeable > battery. The 41C serie was offered with 4 N size batteries that X > came with a rechargeable battery pack that gave more or less the same X Excatly: the USB cable could charge standard NiMH AA size > 9 - Good documentation. X I want to buy a new Programmers Reference Manual with DOARM command available and explained with examples. > 10 - Packaging. I like the new leather cases, BUT belt loop is missing... X > I will pass on the 49G+ and wait and hope for the next serie. ????? but...it is really different from the 49G hardware. You just can NOT pass it !!! ==== In message , Jean >The recent posts about the new HP-49G+ are prompting me to start a >thread on what would be the best specs for a new calculator. [Snip] Let's hear something new. All these people in the group. All these comments. So few new ideas. It's not just Jean either. 90% of the posts currently on my news server are re-hashing the same old complaints that we've had over and over. Leading from the front :-) here's a suggestion: if a new HP calculator had bluetooth built in so that your bluetooth enabled mobile phone could communicate (bi-directionally) with it, what would you use it for, if anything? >10 - Packaging. The clear plastic throw away packing of my 49G was a >big step back from the hard case that came with my 45 in 1974. It's an anti-theft measure. If you can stop people stealing them out of boxes from the stores then HP will go back to using a different package. -- Bruce Horrocks Surrey England ==== > It's not just Jean either. 90% of the posts currently on my news server > are re-hashing the same old complaints that we've had over and over. I think we ought to give serious consideration toward realizing/accepting that there's a reason for that. Let's first fix the nearly-unanimous concerns of the majority, then move on from there. -- John Miller Machines certainly can solve problems, store information, correlate, and play games -- but not with pleasure. -Leo Rosten ==== >> It's not just Jean either. 90% of the posts currently on my news server >> are re-hashing the same old complaints that we've had over and over. > >I think we ought to give serious consideration toward realizing/accepting >that there's a reason for that. > >Let's first fix the nearly-unanimous concerns of the majority, then move on >from there. No. Because then all we'd hear would be people complaining: but all they've done is just fix the problems - where's the new stuff? There's opportunity to fix the well-known problems and add some new stuff. Except, at the moment, no one is suggesting any decent new stuff. -- Bruce Horrocks Surrey England ==== > > The recent posts about the new HP-49G+ are prompting me to start a > thread on what would be the best specs for a new calculator. > <<>> > I will pass on the 49G+ and wait and hope for the next serie. > > I still hope that HP peoples are reading these posts. > > Jean (Johnny) Lemire from Richelieu, Quebec, Canada. I would love to see a Voyager Series format scientific calc. I'm thinking a 15C, but 2 line-display and updated OS and processor. This calc should be RPN/RPL only, no algebraic mode, so that functions and input are RPL based. I look at the 33s and have to laugh. It will work as a handy RPN calc, but I will cringe everytime I have to use it. PhreePhly ==== > In message , Jean > >The recent posts about the new HP-49G+ are prompting me to start a >thread on what would be the best specs for a new calculator. > > Let's hear something new. > [Snip] ----- I've been posting on matters re: generalized hypergeometric series - and have hearing things that suggest there is a library for the 48 to do something in this domain, along with other advanced mathematical functionality - written by John F Holland a long time back. I'd like to see HP tackle this end of town - a fully fledged piece of hardware with true mathematical grunt (symbolics & numerics) for the 49 and beyond. -Maybe HP might license his work, or push further. -I mean isn't that what we're all about here - it's great that a calc can do all sorts of wizardry, but at its roots it needs to be seriously capable in the mathematics arena. Manfred. ==== says... > > The recent posts about the new HP-49G+ are prompting me to start a > thread on what would be the best specs for a new calculator. > > Maybe, since not all users have the same needs, there could be > separate specs for machines aimed at different type of users. > Although, with programmability, a machine like the 49 can please > nearly all users. > > The only use of specificaly designed machines would be to lower the > price. Some will remember the machines of the 70s aimed at scientific > works and those aimed at financial works. > > Then, for a programmable and customizable machine I simply write: > This is what i envision 1000, 2000, 3000 years down the line... The ideal calculator, for me, anyway, would seem to be an ordinary piece of paper. However, it would be digital paper, with all processing done in the sheet of paper. This digital paper would work with a pen that supplied a special type of ink which could change colors. The paper itself could convert the ink into one of two different modes: One being a color (red mode, blue mode, black mode, transparent, translucent), the other being evaporation mode (or sublimation). In the color mode, the ink would obviously turn that color. In evaporation mode, it would become transparent, and then begin dispersing into the air, relatively quickly (taking 1-2 hours to complete the task). This is necessary for drawing and writing on the computer to be easy and intuitive, while preventing the computer from building up mass as more and more fresh ink gets applied to it. It would also be sensitive to sound. Oh yes, and the paper itself can change color, so that one does not need to pre-apply ink for there to be output. The computer itself would have a powerful (ages beyond what we wished we had today) AI, which would be able to interpret human speech as well as humans can (actually, better than we can), and it would understand and carry out tasks that the user requests. Imagine the computer from Star Trek: The Next Generation or later. Except imagine something better than that. Imagine a _perfect_ AI. To use the computer, one could input an expression in any way that the device could detect. One would be by writing on the device. Another way would be by speaking (preferably with RPN, because speaking in algebraic mode is even more inconvenient than entering it into a calculator). Perhaps one could hold up a textbook and say look at this graph and the device (with the ability to see, as well, from every point on its surface - which would also allow it to have a superb sense of depth - with an entire surface area of eye, rather than just one lens) would record the graph. Output could exist in visual form, audible form, or some sort of radio signal. Output could greatly vary in form. Also, the device would be bendable, stretchable, etc, and it could contort itself. One could plot 3-D graphs not only on the two-dimensional surface of the paper, but also by having the device bend itself into a curvy plane! Or even all the way around into a sphere, or any number of complex shapes, although origami might be needed in some instances. Speaking of which, you could fold the device into a crane, and then it would be able to fold itself into the same shape at any time. Even better, with its perfect AI and all, you could explain what origami is, and then hold up a book with instructions on how to fold a crane. The device could then read the instructions and fold itself perfectly. Could it also fold itself into a paper airplane with flapping wings and then fly around, or fly to the next room? (Or go down elevators, to different departments, as the memos do in the Ministry of Magic?) As for its source of energy? It would have a way of converting matter almost directly to energy (we'd just be that good at physics by then), so it get its energy from some of the mass of the ink used on it. Either that, or it gets powered by sunspots. An example of use: One could sketch a graph on the paper, then ask for a function that fits the graph. The computer would then display the formula in TextBook mode, and then graph the function. Oh yes -- when a person draws a graph, the computer straightens out the axes and puts them at ninety degree angles -- it fixes errors in drawing after the stroke completes, or as the stroke completes, and it renders the change slowly, for aesthetical reasons (unless one decides that he wants the axes straightened instantly, as they're drawn, and then tells the computer that fact). The computer would also typically fill in tick marks after the first one has been drawn on an axis (with the distance between the first and the origin being used as the separating width). And so on. This might seem like magic, but magic is indistinguishable from sufficiently advanced technology. ==== Space ... The last frontier ... These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. Our continuing mission: to find a civilization that could build the calculator described hereunder. > says... > > The recent posts about the new HP-49G+ are prompting me to start a > thread on what would be the best specs for a new calculator. > > Maybe, since not all users have the same needs, there could be > separate specs for machines aimed at different type of users. > Although, with programmability, a machine like the 49 can please > nearly all users. > > The only use of specificaly designed machines would be to lower the > price. Some will remember the machines of the 70s aimed at scientific > works and those aimed at financial works. > > Then, for a programmable and customizable machine I simply write: > > > > This is what i envision 1000, 2000, 3000 years down the line... > > The ideal calculator, for me, anyway, would seem to be an ordinary piece > of paper. However, it would be digital paper, with all processing done > in the sheet of paper. This digital paper would work with a pen that > supplied a special type of ink which could change colors. The paper > itself could convert the ink into one of two different modes: One being > a color (red mode, blue mode, black mode, transparent, translucent), the > other being evaporation mode (or sublimation). In the color mode, the > ink would obviously turn that color. In evaporation mode, it would > become transparent, and then begin dispersing into the air, relatively > quickly (taking 1-2 hours to complete the task). This is necessary for > drawing and writing on the computer to be easy and intuitive, while > preventing the computer from building up mass as more and more fresh ink > gets applied to it. It would also be sensitive to sound. > Oh yes, and the paper itself can change color, so that one does not need > to pre-apply ink for there to be output. > > The computer itself would have a powerful (ages beyond what we wished we > had today) AI, which would be able to interpret human speech as well as > humans can (actually, better than we can), and it would understand and > carry out tasks that the user requests. Imagine the computer from Star > Trek: The Next Generation or later. Except imagine something better than > that. Imagine a _perfect_ AI. > > To use the computer, one could input an expression in any way that the > device could detect. One would be by writing on the device. Another way > would be by speaking (preferably with RPN, because speaking in algebraic > mode is even more inconvenient than entering it into a calculator). > Perhaps one could hold up a textbook and say look at this graph and the > device (with the ability to see, as well, from every point on its surface > - which would also allow it to have a superb sense of depth - with an > entire surface area of eye, rather than just one lens) would record the > graph. > > Output could exist in visual form, audible form, or some sort of radio > signal. Output could greatly vary in form. Also, the device would be > bendable, stretchable, etc, and it could contort itself. One could plot > 3-D graphs not only on the two-dimensional surface of the paper, but also > by having the device bend itself into a curvy plane! Or even all the way > around into a sphere, or any number of complex shapes, although origami > might be needed in some instances. Speaking of which, you could fold the > device into a crane, and then it would be able to fold itself into the > same shape at any time. Even better, with its perfect AI and all, you > could explain what origami is, and then hold up a book with instructions > on how to fold a crane. The device could then read the instructions and > fold itself perfectly. Could it also fold itself into a paper airplane > with flapping wings and then fly around, or fly to the next room? (Or go > down elevators, to different departments, as the memos do in the Ministry > of Magic?) > > As for its source of energy? > > It would have a way of converting matter almost directly to energy (we'd > just be that good at physics by then), so it get its energy from some of > the mass of the ink used on it. Either that, or it gets powered by > sunspots. > > An example of use: > > One could sketch a graph on the paper, then ask for a function that fits > the graph. The computer would then display the formula in TextBook > mode, and then graph the function. Oh yes -- when a person draws a > graph, the computer straightens out the axes and puts them at ninety > degree angles -- it fixes errors in drawing after the stroke completes, > or as the stroke completes, and it renders the change slowly, for > aesthetical reasons (unless one decides that he wants the axes > straightened instantly, as they're drawn, and then tells the computer > that fact). The computer would also typically fill in tick marks after > the first one has been drawn on an axis (with the distance between the > first and the origin being used as the separating width). > > And so on. > > This might seem like magic, but magic is indistinguishable from > sufficiently advanced technology. ==== Your last sentence is from Arthur C. Clarke and is also on the album Pocket Universe from the group Yello. Your specs looks like science fiction and are a great fun to read. I hope that in the not too distant future we will have desk computers that will be the top of the desk itself. There will be a very large touch sensitive LCD or plasma or ... screen laid flat on the desk. On it you will be able to read documents, type text, draw sketches, surf the net, etc. But I think that for a pocket computing device, we need a more modest machine. Trying to cram too much stuff inside the actual calculators ask for too much power and too low battery life. The 48 serie and the 49G are, IMHO, nearly an overkill for calculating. Like using a bazooka to kill a fly. In my field of mechanical engineering I need a calculator for quick number crunching either in the field or at the office. A little programmability is usefull. If I need to perform more complex calculations, like pipe networks analysis or design, I will use my computer with Excel, MathCad or other specialized software. I understand very well that symbolic maths and the like appeal to some users. Then it is the time for HP to resurrect what they were doing well in the past. Remember the ROM card that was offered with the 48SX ? The basic machine was geared toward a certain audience (a very vast one because of its memory and programmability) and it got a larger audience with that specialized card. I hope the 49G+ will do the same by offering ROM pack (or downloadable software) geared toward specialized users. In fact, HP should offer a less powerfull machine with integrated upgradability, a bit like the HP41 with its four slots able to receive RAM, ROM, IL module, card reader, etc. The 49G may be well on the rigth track with its SD card and all its connections. It only lacks the excellent keyboard of past machines. Why not a keyboard with less keys, containing all the basic math functions like was found on the HP41, maybe with one less row of key. Then, keypunching could be done fast and reliably for pure number crunching. This will free more room for the screen that could be touch sensitive like some PDAs and larger like 1.5 or 2 time the actual 49's screen. Then, part of the screen could be used to display soft menus or soft buttons with programmable labels. There could be as many rows of buttons as space allows on the screen. Its a bit like the 48 or 49 but with a higher level of sophistication. These buttons could be additionnal functions like statistic, probability, units conversion, matrices, complex number, symbolic math, mini qwerty keyboard for alpha input, etc. In reality, there are some PDA that look like that now, with a large portrait mode screen and quite a few keys below. This looks like the Expander. Maybe the Expander will come back. Just ideas. Jean (Johnny) Lemire from Richelieu, Quebec, Canada. ==== > Your last sentence is from Arthur C. Clarke and is also on the album > Pocket Universe from the group Yello. [in reference to Clarke's law: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.] I've always liked the contrapositive: Any technology that is distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. ==== > Trying to cram too much stuff inside the actual calculators ask for > too much power and too low battery life. The 48 serie and the 49G > are, IMHO, nearly an overkill for calculating. Like using a bazooka > to kill a fly. ...but wouldn't it be a lot funner to kill that fly with a bazooka? ==== > Your last sentence is from Arthur C. Clarke and is also on the album > Pocket Universe from the group Yello. > > [in reference to Clarke's law: Any sufficiently advanced technology is > indistinguishable from magic.] > > I've always liked the contrapositive: > > Any technology that is distinguishable from magic is insufficiently > advanced. And Microsoft definitely made computer look like (black) magic. I often find myself praying in hope of getting my computer to work, and I have often perform a darn computer will you work dance before trying to fix these beasts... does that mean that windows is sufficentrly advanced? Cyrille My thoughts are mine, all mine, HP might not like them anyway :-) ==== why not have it pull power from the air? >says... > >As for its source of energy? > >It would have a way of converting matter almost directly to energy (we'd >just be that good at physics by then), so it get its energy from some of >the mass of the ink used on it. Either that, or it gets powered by >sunspots. > Pete M. Wilson Gamewood, Inc. wilsonpm@gamewood.net ==== > > why not have it pull power from the air? > I have been working on a special new module for the HP4x series which will take power from spam messages. I cannot say too much (patent applied for), but every time you receive a spam message, it recharges the batteries by a few millamphours. By my reckoning with the increase in spam and virii, your HP4x will be able to power your house, just by connecting to a Windows box, and sucking in all that spam. will not work, due to the security restrictions in the B2-class ionosphere driver). I'm hoping to have a prototype ready ready 4Xmas. Feel free to watch out for the announcements in the press any day now .... :-) ==== > And Microsoft definitely made computer look like (black) magic. I often find > myself praying in hope of getting my computer to work, and I have often > perform a darn computer will you work dance before trying to fix these > beasts... > > does that mean that windows is sufficentrly advanced? Actually, IMHO, HPUX is even worse to work with. -- Bhuvanesh ==== Looks promising... > I hope that in the not too distant future we will have desk computers > that will be the top of the desk itself. There will be a very large > touch sensitive LCD or plasma or ... screen laid flat on the desk. On > it you will be able to read documents, type text, draw sketches, surf > the net, etc. ==== Yesterday, I needed to know exactly how many kg is a stone and was sure my HP would tell me. I was surprised to find out it does not know. Stones being a very much used unit here in the UK does anyone know why they were never included in the ROM 48 or 49? Google tells me: 1 stone = 6.35029318 kg in case you don't knwo what I am talking about. Arnaud ==== > Yesterday, I needed to know exactly how many kg is a stone and was > sure my HP would tell me. I was surprised to find out it does not > know. Stones being a very much used unit here in the UK does anyone > know why they were never included in the ROM 48 or 49? > Google tells me: 1 stone = 6.35029318 kg in case you don't knwo what I > am talking about. No problem for Unitman (existent also for your old HP48G). If you like to expand the stone-aged british units system by the unit stone, just run AddU from Unitman. The nice thing is that Unitman will treat your stone unit as if it were builtin! EXAMPLE: Put 1 on the stack, press kg so that you've got 1_kg on the stack. Now press leftshift stone and voil.87, it turns out that 1_kg equals .157473044418_stone :-) I just tried your example on my new 49+, just to see whether Unitman runs also on the most modern calc with the most obsolete unit in the world. It does :-) - Wolfgang ==== Oh, I forgot one more thing. Why should this french unit kg have such a prominent place in the mass menu? Just press ReoU (Reorganzize the Units menu) and ROLLDOWN the just created stone unit at the first position. Now the order in the masse menu will be stone kg ... as it should be. - Wolfgang would have been an excellent example of the new unit management, much more exciting than the EURO story... ==== I noticed this omission too. Surprisingly the more limited units capability of the financial HP19BII does include stones, so it's not missing from all HP calculators. > Yesterday, I needed to know exactly how many kg is a stone and was > sure my HP would tell me. I was surprised to find out it does not > know. Stones being a very much used unit here in the UK does anyone > know why they were never included in the ROM 48 or 49? > Google tells me: 1 stone = 6.35029318 kg in case you don't knwo what I > am talking about. > > Arnaud ==== > No problem for Unitman (existent also for your old HP48G). If you like I am now on my way to installing it. That is the main problem of living in the UK without being british. Arnaud 9st10lb 5ft8'' Or there about ==== > > I just tried your example on my new 49+, just to see whether Unitman > runs also on the most modern calc with the most obsolete unit in the > world. It does :-) There are plenty of far more obsolete units, without delving into units from dead civilizations. links, chains, perches and roods spring to mind. Not to mention Oersted, Weber etc. A+ Paul -- Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth) Surgery: ennobled Gerald. ==== In message <31032eba.0309220512.104f40fc@posting.google.com>, Arnaud >Yesterday, I needed to know exactly how many kg is a stone and was >sure my HP would tell me. I was surprised to find out it does not >know. Stones being a very much used unit here in the UK does anyone >know why they were never included in the ROM 48 or 49? >Google tells me: 1 stone = 6.35029318 kg in case you don't knwo what I >am talking about. Stones are/were only ever used for people's weights in the UK. I can't think of anything else that is or was regularly weighed in stones. Pounds (14 to the stone) are much more common as they were, until metrication, used for virtually all goods sold by weight in shops. -- Bruce Horrocks Surrey England ==== (Sorry if this topic has been discussed before.) How can one store a library on Port 3/on the SD card? Trying so gave me Invalid DOS name both on the filer and via STO. Ist is possible to do this at all? Can one use the libraries then as if they would be stored in Port 0, 1 or 2, that means attaching them, so that their commands can be used like internal commands? This feature has always attracted me on the HP48/49 series. It would be fine if you could use the SD card for this. TIA, Mathias -- Mathias Habel mathias.habel_no-spam_@t-online.de Remove _no-spam_ before replying ==== > > (Sorry if this topic has been discussed before.) > > How can one store a library on Port 3/on the SD card? > > Trying so gave me Invalid DOS name both on the filer and via STO. I'm sure Long Names (not DOS compliant) problem will soon be fixed A new ROM can be flashed down to your calc later. Today you can use PC to do better file management. :3:spaces are allowed STO should work... > Ist is possible to do this at all? Can one use the libraries then as > if they would be stored in Port 0, 1 or 2, that means attaching them, > so that their commands can be used like internal commands? This > feature has always attracted me on the HP48/49 series. It would be > fine if you could use the SD card for this. * FACTS * NO attached libs on SD Use Internal Flash (port 2) for libs You can execute programs and RCL data from SD (port 3) ==== >> Ist is possible to do this at all? Can one use the libraries then as >> if they would be stored in Port 0, 1 or 2, that means attaching them, >> so that their commands can be used like internal commands? This >> feature has always attracted me on the HP48/49 series. It would be >> fine if you could use the SD card for this. >* FACTS * >NO attached libs on SD thats a pity. In my opinion this restricts the usefulness of the SD card. Maybe this could be changed in a future ROM version. I know having 128 Megs af libraries on Port 3 would make the calculaters warmstart lasting really long, but it should be possible to circumvent this, e. g. by ignoring the $CONFIG variable in a library, so that it is not automatically attached an a warmboot. Mathias -- Mathias Habel mathias.habel_no-spam_@t-online.de Remove _no-spam_ before replying ==== > How can one store a library on Port 3/on the SD card? > Trying so gave me Invalid DOS name both on the filer and via STO. > Ist is possible to do this at all? Can one use the libraries then as > if they would be stored in Port 0, 1 or 2, that means attaching them, > so that their commands can be used like internal commands? This > feature has always attracted me on the HP48/49 series. It would be > fine if you could use the SD card for this. libraries need an object type change before storing them in the SD card. anybody else may help to translate it into UsrRPL if necessary. STO3 expects a library in Level2 and a non-tagged name in Level 1. For instance, if the library is OT49+ I suggest the name 'L360' on level 1. :: CK2NOLASTWD DUPTYPEIDN? Ncase TYPEERR tok3_ USER$>TAG SWAPDUP TYPELIB?_ IT Ob>SECO SWAP xSTO ; @ Clearly, this method is provisorial only. For the nex update of ROM 1.22 it must be possible to save (copy) a library from any built-in port on the SD card, no matter in which form. - Wolfgang ==== > > >> Ist is possible to do this at all? Can one use the libraries then as >> if they would be stored in Port 0, 1 or 2, that means attaching them, >> so that their commands can be used like internal commands? This >> feature has always attracted me on the HP48/49 series. It would be >> fine if you could use the SD card for this. > >* FACTS * >NO attached libs on SD > > thats a pity. In my opinion this restricts the usefulness of the SD > card. > > Maybe this could be changed in a future ROM version. I know having 128 > Megs af libraries on Port 3 would make the calculaters warmstart > lasting really long, but it should be possible to circumvent this, e. > g. by ignoring the $CONFIG variable in a library, so that it is not > automatically attached an a warmboot. > Well, Mathias, how much libs do you have now in your calc? My libs and progs leave free port :1: 0KB and :2: 479KB This is after 4 years of heavy use and user support and being the president/vicepresident of STaK The biggest are extable2, XEQLIB and SDIAG I have 45194_bytes of text in :2: included in the total. So I should have ~523, eg. more than 1/2 MB free for libs AND As I have mentioned in past message(s) I have a Nokia 9110i communicator 8MB MMC with Nokia program, 49g+ program, etc. documents and there is still room for backups, BUT not for digicamera pictures ==== >Well, Mathias, how much libs do you have now in your calc? >My libs and progs leave free port :1: 0KB and :2: 479KB >This is after 4 years of heavy use and user support and being the >president/vicepresident of STaK >The biggest are extable2, XEQLIB and SDIAG >I have 45194_bytes of text in :2: included in the total. >So I should have ~523, eg. more than 1/2 MB free for libs >AND >As I have mentioned in past message(s) I have a Nokia 9110i communicator >8MB MMC with Nokia program, 49g+ program, etc. documents >and there is still room for backups, BUT not for digicamera pictures You are right. Even for heavy needs 700 K flash ROM should do it. But a question remains: what to do with a SD card in the HP49+? Use it only for data transfer and backups? Mathias -- Mathias Habel mathias.habel_no-spam_@t-online.de Remove _no-spam_ before replying ==== >libraries need an object type change before storing them in the SD card. >anybody else may help to translate it into UsrRPL if necessary. STO3 >expects a library in Level2 and a non-tagged name in Level 1. For >instance, if the library is OT49+ I suggest the name 'L360' on level 1. > >:: CK2NOLASTWD DUPTYPEIDN? Ncase TYPEERR tok3_ USER$>TAG SWAPDUP > TYPELIB?_ IT Ob>SECO SWAP xSTO >; >@ program and then store it in port 3? BTW, is it possible, that the program contains some bugs? I tried to me someCant«t find errors. I had to change it in: !NO CODE !RPL :: CK2NOLASTWD DUPTYPEIDNT? NcaseTYPEERR tok3_ USER$>TAG SWAPDUP TYPELIB?_ IT Ob>Seco SWAP xSTO ; @ As I have no idea from SysRPL I dont«t know, what this means. I simply looked up every apperently wrong command in extable2 and corrected it accordingly. Now it seems to work. Maybe its due to the fact, that I use Extable2 and not Extable? Mathias -- Mathias Habel mathias.habel_no-spam_@t-online.de Remove _no-spam_ before replying ==== >anybody else may help to translate it into UsrRPL if necessary. STO3 >expects a library in Level2 and a non-tagged name in Level 1. For >instance, if the library is OT49+ I suggest the name 'L360' on level 1. >:: CK2NOLASTWD DUPTYPEIDN? Ncase TYPEERR tok3_ USER$>TAG SWAPDUP > TYPELIB?_ IT Ob>SECO SWAP xSTO >; >@ > > program and then store it in port 3? That's correct. After recalling, just press EVAL on this program to get the library itself. > ... I tried to > me someCant«t find errors. I had to change it in: > !NO CODE > !RPL > :: > CK2NOLASTWD > DUPTYPEIDNT? > NcaseTYPEERR > tok3_ USER$>TAG > SWAPDUP TYPELIB?_ IT > Ob>Seco SWAP xSTO > ; > @ > As I have no idea from SysRPL I dont«t know, what this means. I simply > looked up every apperently wrong command in extable2 and corrected it > accordingly. As far as I can see, there is no typo in my writing of the program. It works in ROM 1.22. First of all, before compiling SysRPL, you should set flag -92 to avoid this irritating !NO CODE !RPL (this only indicates that CdB first learnd ASM and then SysRPL programming to some extend :-) Secondly, you should use a modernized extable, the one offered by Thomas Rast, found in the latest Emacs package. I do not know what you mean by extable2. Thirdly, DEBUG2 is useful for huge projects, but not for small programs as the above one whose correct compilation can easily controlled on the HP49+ itself. You have to load Emacs, SDIAG, NOSY and OT49+, because MASD needs crutches as I just explained in a previous The latest version of OT49+ for the HP49+ can always be downloaded from http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/~raut/WR49/ - Wolfgang boundary=----=_NextPart_000_00E9_01C39042.E71721C0 ==== --------------------------------------------------------------------- > libraries need an object type change before storing them in the SD card. Who, me? > anybody else may help to translate it into UsrRPL if necessary. STO3 > expects a library in Level2 and a non-tagged name in Level 1. For > instance, if the library is OT49+ I suggest the name 'L360' on level 1. > Use monospaced font to read this: << @ :: -> l n << l n @ CK2NOLASTWD DUP TYPE 12 == @ DUPTYPEIDN? IF NOT THEN @ NcaseTYPEERR 3 @ tok3 ->TAG END @ USER$>TAG SWAP DUP @ SWAPDUP TYPE 16 == @ TYPELIB? IF THEN @ IT 1 ->PRG END @ Ob>SECO SWAP @ SWAP STO @ xSTO >> @ ; @ > > Clearly, this method is provisorial only. For the nex update of ROM 1.22 > it must be possible to save (copy) a library from any built-in port on > the SD card, no matter in which form. > > - Wolfgang Veli-Pekka ==== > libraries need an object type change > before storing them in the SD card. A quick & easy way to do this without System RPL programming is to drop the library into a list, and store that in port 3 under an ordinary name (I like Wolfgang's idea of using 'Lnnnn' where nnnn is (4 keystrokes close together) or up-arrow NXT ->LIST ENTER (also 4 good. -Joe- ==== >> libraries need an object type change >> before storing them in the SD card. >A quick & easy way to do this without System RPL programming is to >drop the library into a list, and store that in port 3 under an >ordinary name (I like Wolfgang's idea of using 'Lnnnn' where nnnn is >(4 keystrokes close together) or up-arrow NXT ->LIST ENTER (also 4 >good. the SysRPL source. I«m veeery proud of this...;) Mathias -- Mathias Habel mathias.habel_no-spam_@t-online.de Remove _no-spam_ before replying ==== >>anybody else may help to translate it into UsrRPL if necessary. STO3 >>expects a library in Level2 and a non-tagged name in Level 1. For >>instance, if the library is OT49+ I suggest the name 'L360' on level 1. >>:: CK2NOLASTWD DUPTYPEIDN? Ncase TYPEERR tok3_ USER$>TAG SWAPDUP >> TYPELIB?_ IT Ob>SECO SWAP xSTO >>; >>@ >> program and then store it in port 3? >That's correct. After recalling, just press EVAL on this program to get >the library itself. [...] >> ... I tried to >> me someCant«t find errors. [...] >As far as I can see, there is no typo in my writing of the program. It >works in ROM 1.22. First of all, before compiling SysRPL, you should set >flag -92 to avoid this irritating !NO CODE !RPL (this only indicates >that CdB first learnd ASM and then SysRPL programming to some extend :-) > >Secondly, you should use a modernized extable, the one offered by Thomas >Rast, found in the latest Emacs package. I do not know what you mean by >extable2. Extable2 seems to be the one that comes with Emacs.The Emacs package v1.12 apparently contains a newer version. > Thirdly, DEBUG2 is useful for huge projects, but not for small >programs as the above one whose correct compilation can easily >controlled on the HP49+ itself. You have to load Emacs, SDIAG, NOSY and >OT49+, because MASD needs crutches as I just explained in a previous > >The latest version of OT49+ for the HP49+ can always be downloaded from >http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/~raut/WR49/ on my calc. I tried to compile the program again. It seems, that I had some typos myself, but nevertheless their seems to be three errors in your prog. According to the Emacs completion feature the following commands are wrong written: - DUPTYPEIDN? doesn«t exist. I think, it should read DUPTYPEIDNT?? - Ncase TYPEERR should be written together, meaning NcaseTYPEERR? - Ob>SECO should be written like Ob>Seco, as SysRPL seems to distinguish between capitalization and use of small letters? With this corrections the programs compiles correctly and seems to work like you described. Mathias -- Mathias Habel mathias.habel_no-spam_@t-online.de Remove _no-spam_ before replying ==== > You are right. Even for heavy needs 700 K flash ROM should do it. But > a question remains: what to do with a SD card in the HP49+? Use it > only for data transfer and backups? If we can access it in ASM, with some kind of bankswitching, perhaps I'll finally succeed in putting my favorite AOTC trailer in 8 greyscale levels into my HP calculator... :-) For the time now, I only have an about 150 Kb file that displays 20 pictures or so and decompresses it in realtime, which takes about half a second for decompression. Without decompression, the 49G+ could be able to display video quite well... :-)) I've also heard that the buzzer could be configured on the 49G+, so perhaps we'll get better wave playing quality. Yoann. ==== > I like Wolfgang's idea of using 'Lnnnn' where nnnn is > the library ID... >> libraries need an object type change >> before storing them in the SD card. > the SysRPL source. I«m veeery proud of this...;) Your proudness of your success in a difficult matter perhaps motivates you to learn this wunderful SysRPL. This isn't quite easy, but don't worry. Nobody in this world knows all the commands it presently has, over 7000. This is even not necessary because there is a huge and relatively good documentation. What one has to know is where to look and remember the most important commands. Not mandatory to remember always the correct spelling because Emacs will help in finding it out. is a typo in this. DUPTYPEIDNT? is correct. Just write DUPT while being in the Emacs SysRPL editor and press the key the command RPLCMP is assigned to. Then you get the whole list of completions. You've simply to make your choice. It is so easy and convenient... I doubt whether Debug4 has this comfort, or does it? - Wolfgang ==== > >is a typo in this. DUPTYPEIDNT? is correct. Just write DUPT while >being in the Emacs SysRPL editor and press the key the command RPLCMP is >assigned to. Then you get the whole list of completions. You've simply >to make your choice. It is so easy and convenient... I doubt whether >Debug4 has this comfort, or does it? Yes, Debug4 has this functionality as Ctrl+Space or Ctrl+J or Ctrl+A. I can't remember which one, but one is for autocompletion and another gives you the arguments and returns of the command. The other shortcut may be from a Visual Basic similar function, because everything is just mixed in my head, because I've used this a few times. -- Beto ==== > I've just noticed that when I raise the contrast to a certain level on my HP48GX I can see some dark splotches appear on the LCD. Is this a normal occurance or could there be something wrong with the screen. Unfortunately I don't have a digital camera to take any pictures with. I've got that as well on my HP48GX. The screen on my GX is worse than the screen on my G, even though they were made in the same place in the same year. Oh well. I think your best bet is to either tough it out or sell it on ebay and get another one on ebay. :) -Josh -- -Joshua Belsky jjbelsky@yahoo.com http://belsky.net ==== Well the good thing is that they don't appear on any contrast level that I use so I guess I'm stuck with it. At least I know I'm not alone though :-) > >>I've just noticed that when I raise the contrast to a certain level on my HP48GX I can see some dark splotches appear on the LCD. Is this a normal occurance or could there be something wrong with the screen. Unfortunately I don't have a digital camera to take any pictures with. > > > I've got that as well on my HP48GX. The screen on my GX is worse than the > screen on my G, even though they were made in the same place in the same > year. Oh well. > > I think your best bet is to either tough it out or sell it on ebay and get > another one on ebay. :) > > -Josh > ====