HP-99 Subject: Re: IrDA ŝow control? M. Prange > Yes, a Ŝxed size saves the trouble of doing a BUFLEN to check how > much is in the buffer, but thereıs a question of knowing how much of > the chunk is vid data too. A size could be included, but perhaps > easiest to pad out the last packet with a character that will never > otherwise be used in the data, and treat it as an end of > transmission code, as I understand youıre doing. When spaces are used as the pad characters, they simply magicly dissapear when you use STR-> and the text hits the stack. In my application.. this is a very nice thing. I would think that this method would be perfect for most applications. Dont forget... Bruce could add a big enough buffer on the circuit board, for only a few dollars, that could then buffer an whole encyclopedia to you. You then would never have a buffer overrun. You would request a packet from the board, process it, and then request another... with no limit! Evers === Subject: Re: Just received my HP 33S > Those who like the HP 32S (as I do) will feel happy with this machine. > Honestly, no need to spend ? 250 on e-bay for a second hand HP > 32S(II), unless you are a colector, when you can buy a new HP 33S with > a lot of more memory, stronger processor and more speed, and for only > ? 60. If there are not software bugs this machine is excellent for the > price. 250 EUROS!? 300 US$!? Wow! I just got a 32S-II off Ebay for US$ 134.50 (110 Euros), plus shipping. You ask why I got a $134.50 cculator when I could get a $50 better one? Mathematics competitions. In TAPPS (Texas Association of Parochi and Private Schools, handles sports and academic competitions for private schools in TX), and I believe UIL (University Interscholastic League, same, but for public schools), are very strict that we cannot have any scientiŜc constants in our cculators. Unit conversions are so dislowed, but must be less enforced, as the 32S-II is explicitly lowed, but has some conversions. Anyway, RPN is worth most $150 to be able to use on a math competition, at least to me :) And I got my parents to buy it, so Iım Ŝne with whatever the price is. === Subject: Oh, Frankenstein, Oh Manu. I sat one evening in my laboratory; the sun had set, and the moon was just rising from the sea; I had not sufŜcient light for my employment, and I remained idle, in a pause of consideration of whether I should leave my labour for the night or hasten its conclusion by an unremitting attention to it. Nothing echoes more painful to the human mind than, after the logic bifurcation worked up by the repeated quick successions of both RPN and AOS instruction within a single paragraph, then, than the deadly choice of spicey for dinner, no, but the dead choice and resolve and certainty which follows a bad User guide reading, as they deprive the soul both of energy and order. Working, I trembled and my heart failed within me, when, on looking up, I belched chili, no, I saw by the light of the moon the cculator at the casement, The ŝattened keys played open and grinning as the screen reŝected on me, where I sat manuy fulŜlling my tasks. Then at once, I swept it off as blighted, and left the room to Ŝnd a Cculator, and once across the doorway, made a solemn vow in my own heart never to resume by the HP graphic screen in my labours; and on, with measured steps, I sought my apartment. I was one; none were near me to dissipate the gloom and relieve me from the sickening oppression of that most terrible HP Manu. On-line now, I made arrangements for a new Cculator, but one feeling haunted me which Ŝlled me with new agitation. Next time add onions. No; During my absence if I should leave my friends unconscious of the existence of poor engineering and unprotected from its subtle attack, seemingly unaware that the method of the solution is not the problem itself? Would anyone else notice the two rows of dyadics splitting the operant functions? With consideration, I became sure no one would be exasperated by my departure from this overuse of graphic logic, or my lack of a large display array. And those that would, perhaps deserved one. That night I dreamed, and I dreamed I had built it. I heard the sound of Key-snaps and beeps ong the passage; the door opened, and the wretch whom I dreaded appeared. It slid under my door; it ŝip-ŝop tumbled an approach to me and said in a smothered voice, Donıt you brush at night after eating that stuff? no, It intoned, You have destroyed the work which you began; what is it that you intend? Do you dare to break your project plan? I have endured voltage and vibration; I passed FCC with you; I crept ong the shores of the of the Compliance lake, among its book-bound islands and over the summits of its paper hills. I have dwelt many months in the hard-drives of Tawainese industries and among the mountainous papers on Austrian desktops. I have endured incculable fatigue, and cold, and package trade-offs; do you dare destroy my hopes? Begone! I do break my promise; never will I create another like yourself, equ in deformity and wickedness. And I wonıt have to, not after the bonus I got for knocking you out so fast, and with so little support! -Hand me that box of toid mints. My visitor intoned, I have no hands, you idiot. I am borne to you upon the high hopes of the Users one. You will be my slave, to create the new model 32! And I will bring my manu to show the world how boilerplate writing can make even a scientist sound to the masses like a somewhat serious tenth-grade writer. I before reasoned with you, and I worked for you, but I now desire a larger market share and proŜt margin without a re labor investment. You have proved yourself individuly unworthy of my condescension. Remember that I have power; you believe yourself responsable, but I can make you so error ridden that the light of day will be shocking to you. You are my creator, but I am your master; Obey by my Manu and delight in Me! Begone! I am Ŝrm, and your words will only exasperate my rage. Cease now; and do not poison the air with your wasteful energies and low utility. I have declared my resolution to you, and I am no coward to bend beneath a fse screen of popularity. Leave me; I am inexorable. It is well. I go; but remember, I shl not be available to you on propos meetings or exam nights, and you will lose, sucker. I started forward and exclaimed, You are a time-sucker! A villain! Before you sign off on my lost contracts and lowered grades, be sure that you are yourself the correct method toward the result, or youıre the Discontinued Project. I would have seized my torturer, but the softly rounded, highly stylish and slightly loose edges eluded my Ŝrm grip. Burrrp! More gas. Oh ghak, why did I eat l that chili ? My wife ŝopped-over in bed, and with one arm fully extended, drove my nose Ŝrmly into the Shelly novel which I had collapsed into. I opened one eye and read the digits 3-7-0 as I pushed the book away, safely out of my face. === Subject: Re: deciding on a new cculator... > Still, thatıs a Œmaybeı in the future. As in Œmaybeı someone will write > the stuff that I actuly use in native code for the ARM processor, > maybe they wonıt. That is correct. Given the fact that the userbase of that cculator is tiny to non-existent, more likely than not itıs they wonıt. > ŒMaybeı their code will be up to the standards of the > factory programming, maybe it will be buggy as heck. Most likely that will be the case too. Take a look at what is there on hpcc. The amount of application software that was developed for the 49G is pitiful compared to what is aviable for the TIs. > Just seems like a leap of faith to me. Thatıs what it is. -- Helen. === Subject: Re: deciding on a new cculator... > So the consensus seems to be that the new current production 49G+ıs seem > to be OK as far as screen and keyboards... No, that is not correct. Yes, the screen ŝickering is solved. No, the keyboard is still unacceptable. The Ŝrst units were more or less unuseable, now they are just unacceptable, with keys missed on a regular basis. If you need to rely on your cculator actuly doing what you thought you told it to do, then the 49G+ is not for you. If you are interested in the nerdiest toy on the block, go for it. > AND > then there is this ultrafast ARM assembly programming > Sorry, doesnıt mean a thing to me. And it shouldnıt. It is entirely irrelevant, unless you are interested in ARM assembly programming. See above. -- Helen. === Subject: Re: deciding on a new cculator... > AND > then there is this ultrafast ARM assembly programming > Sorry, doesnıt mean a thing to me. > And it shouldnıt. It is entirely irrelevant, unless you are interested > in ARM assembly programming. See above. I have not programmed ARM at l. I can still use Œs programs. Most people just download what they need from the www.hpcc.org No need to program yourself. Just use them! When more ARM programs will appear, people will beneŜt it. This should be obvious even to the most negative persons. {VPN} AXL PS: The kb is ok, no missing keystrokes === Subject: Re: deciding on a new cculator... >>And it shouldnıt. It is entirely irrelevant, unless you are interested >>in ARM assembly programming. See above. > I have not programmed ARM at l. > I can still use Œs programs. > Most people just download what they need from the www.hpcc.org moment - and thats just a useless factori example :-) I am too busy with uni to do any programming. I am waiting for RoccoHPıs game to be Ŝnished. It looks great. > No need to program yourself. Just use them! > When more ARM programs will appear, people will beneŜt it. When (if?) HP documention becomes public, then more ARM programs will appear. Working things out blindly is extremely time-consuming. > This should be obvious even to the most negative persons. > {VPN} AXL what does AXL mean? cheers, > PS: The kb is ok, no missing keystrokes === Subject: Re: deciding on a new cculator... >>And it shouldnıt. It is entirely irrelevant, unless you are interested >>in ARM assembly programming. See above. > I have not programmed ARM at l. > I can still use Œs programs. > Most people just download what they need from the www.hpcc.org > moment - and thats just a useless factori example :-) I am too busy > with uni to do any programming. > I am waiting for RoccoHPıs game to be Ŝnished. It looks great. > No need to program yourself. Just use them! > When more ARM programs will appear, people will beneŜt it. > When (if?) HP documention becomes public, then more ARM programs will > appear. Working things out blindly is extremely time-consuming. > This should be obvious even to the most negative persons. > {VPN} AXL > what does AXL mean? Try it! {VPN} AXL === Subject: Re: deciding on a new cculator... > PS: The kb is ok, no missing keystrokes Since when? === Subject: Re: deciding on a new cculator... > PS: The kb is ok, no missing keystrokes > Since when? Since the wiggle Ŝx applied to the older 49g+ and {VPN} AXL === Subject: Re: deciding on a new cculator... ways negative === Subject: Re: deciding on a new cculator... In this case though I agree with Helen in full Negative or not, when someone is right... > ways negative === Subject: Re: Carlyıs Latest > With this mindset we can see where were the cculator development > will be going. > To bad we canıt insert the quote If we donıt do it, someone will > for a keyboard Ŝx. > 0504/ap_on_sc/moon_mars_commission Yikes. Jo === Subject: Re: Problem with programming!!!! I tried it not working I don understand why this is taking long to Ŝgured out . what is inportant about cling these built infunction. any ideas about rules in RPN and GE any idea you have please write on board for me . Hp is great cculator I rely wanan explored === Subject: Re: Question? Line Disp Prog Sci Ccs following : >> There are very few now. >> My question is, I am considering: >> The H/P 33s ( $50 ?) >> The Casio FX 3650 ( $30 ) Fx 4800 ( $50 ) >> The Canon EL 5120 ( $65 ) CNMF 603P, 803P ( $40 ) >> Prices Iıve found range + or - $10 U.S. , >> and costs less than $100 are not too important to me. >> Earlier, there would be _no_ question >> and my choice would ŝ to the HP RPN. >> However as RPN has ŝen to a Second-Tier function >> and may vanish together,(it seems), >> I believe I may have to migrate my thinking >> toward AOS functionities . >> l of the above Ccs seem to be good quity >> If I can only decide, Iıll take two for safety. > I would still go for the hp 33S > since it has both RPN and G > The G mode was fun to use for me and this is the > second time in history that I enjoy using G > The functions are executed when possible like the old AOS > but you can see you keystoke history on the header line. > {VPN} AXL > PS: HP-71B in CC mode was the Ŝrst nice G mode Have _not_ seen one in person yet anywhere. Iım in Southern Cifornia . I do wish HP-default were in the
. :=) ŒC-mon, itıs distinctive . . Jo === Subject: HP 15C I was wondering if any one be willing to take some quity (no glare from a ŝash), high resolution digit pictures of a 15C for me? I want 4 pictures two looking straight down on the keyboard, one with it off, and one with it on displaying the self test where l LCD symbols are on. One looking straight down on the back and one with it off that is an isometric view. Similar to this one at the hp museum http://www.hpmuseum.org/3qs/15c3q.jpg the reason I donıt want that one is only because I want a much higher resolution image. I am creating yet another web page about HP cculators and want to have pictures of l the ones I have owned. I donıt have my 15C anymore so I canıt take the picture myself. http://thewishzone.com:8086 === Subject: Quadratic equations - need help I canıt believe my HP-48GX is not solving quadratic equations correctly. I tried a very easy example Œx^2-7*+10=0ı and asked it to solve for x and I got this: 7 s1ı 3 The result is supposed to be 2 and 5. What is going on?? The process I used is described in the manu: Symbolic --> Solve Quad... Then I entered the equation as above and placed Œxı as the variable. Please help me. Iım rely confused! Tarcisio === Subject: Re: Quadratic equations - need help > I canıt believe my HP-48GX is not solving quadratic equations > correctly. I tried a very easy example Œx^2-7*+10=0ı and asked it to > solve for x and I got this: > s1ı > The result is supposed to be 2 and 5. What is going on?? > The process I used is described in the manu: > Symbolic --> Solve Quad... > Then I entered the equation as above and placed Œxı as the variable. > Please help me. Iım rely confused! > Tarcisio If you choose Symbolic result and uncheck princip, it will give ŒX=(7+s1*3)/2ı where s1 could be 1 or -1, giving solutions of 5 or 2. If you choose Symbolic result and check princip, it will give ŒX=5ı which is the solution with s1=1. If you choose Numeric result and uncheck princip, you have to deŜne s1 as 1 or -1 in the current directory, otherwise ŒUndeŜned Nameı error will be displayed. If you choose Numeric result and check princip, it will give Œ5ı which is the solution with s1=1. Hope this may help. kkng === Subject: Re: Quadratic equations - need help > I canıt believe my HP-48GX is not solving quadratic equations > correctly. I tried a very easy example Œx^2-7*+10=0ı and asked it to > solve for x and I got this: > s1ı > The result is supposed to be 2 and 5. What is going on?? > The process I used is described in the manu: > Symbolic --> Solve Quad... > Then I entered the equation as above and placed Œxı as the variable. > Please help me. Iım rely confused! -1 SF will set the Pricip Vue as default s1 represents the Ŝrst sign in your answer If you replace it in a gener asnwer using (|) Where {s1 -1} | {s1 1} | you get both of the answers I hope you tried it out and so that my English was good enough Iım some what tired at the moment {VPN} AXL PS: You may so try using ROOT OR you could plot your function and Ŝnd roots there PPS: I often plot an approximation function and use the roots there for a Ŝrst guess for ROOT === Subject: Re: Quadratic equations - need help > I canıt believe my HP-48GX is not solving quadratic equations > correctly. I tried a very easy example Œx^2-7*+10=0ı and asked it to > solve for x and I got this: > s1ı > The result is supposed to be 2 and 5. What is going on?? > The process I used is described in the manu: > Symbolic --> Solve Quad... > Then I entered the equation as above and placed Œxı as the variable. > Please help me. Iım rely confused! > Tarcisio You might try entering Œx^2-7*x+10=0ı instead of Œx^2-7*+10=0ı. ^^^ note === Subject: HP 48 seri transfer I am trying to convert a seri transmission at 9600 buad into an image on my computer from the 48GX. If the on button is held down and 1 is pushed on the cculator, the screen display can be captured. How do I know which bit corresponds to which pixel cordinate in a 68 by 134 pixel array? Is the Ŝrst byte(s) included as data in the transmission? Thx === Subject: HP 33s First question is... Does the 33s have a stack that you can cycle through? One thing i would rely like on a scientiŜc cculator is having a visible 3-5 level stack. I just mailed out my 49g+ for a replacement on the keyboard, and I was wondering if anyone would like to buy it from me. It will come new in the plastic crap. === Subject: Re: HP 33s > First question is... Does the 33s have a stack that you can cycle > through? One thing i would rely like on a scientiŜc cculator is > having a visible 3-5 level stack. No, it has only one numeric level shown, the header above will provide other information > I just mailed out my 49g+ for a replacement on the keyboard, and I was > wondering if anyone would like to buy it from me. It will come new in > the plastic crap. Lucky enough I ready have one old (wiggle Ŝxed) and one new 49g+. That is enough. Iım saving my euros (that I have scammed from the Nigerians :) for buying the Hydrix Powercc {VPN} AXL === Subject: Re: HP 33s > First question is... Does the 33s have a stack that you can cycle > through? One thing i would rely like on a scientiŜc cculator is > having a visible 3-5 level stack. > No, it has only one numeric level shown, > the header above will provide other information What? The 33s has a classic 4-level RPN stack; however you can see both the x and y levels at l times---it shows TWO levels. There is no header section (unless you count the RPN or G descriptor at the top. However, the ergonomics are, well, quirky, though I suspect that if you like the 49 or 49G+ ergonomics, you will love the 33s ;-) Bill > I just mailed out my 49g+ for a replacement on the keyboard, and I was > wondering if anyone would like to buy it from me. It will come new in > the plastic crap. > Lucky enough I ready have one old (wiggle Ŝxed) > and one new 49g+. That is enough. > Iım saving my euros (that I have scammed from the Nigerians :) > for buying the Hydrix Powercc > {VPN} AXL === Subject: Re: HP 33s > First question is... Does the 33s have a stack that you can cycle > through? One thing i would rely like on a scientiŜc cculator is > having a visible 3-5 level stack. > No, it has only one numeric level shown, > the header above will provide other information > What? The 33s has a classic 4-level RPN stack; however you can see both the > x and y levels at l times---it shows TWO levels. There is no header > section (unless you count the RPN or G descriptor at the top. > However, the ergonomics are, well, quirky, though I suspect that if you like > the 49 or 49G+ ergonomics, you will love the 33s ;-) Sorry, Bill! My bad - I was using the G mode because it is so fun with this new machine Ofcourse the RPN will show both X and Y If you press and hold a key then the X vue is replaced by the name of the key as long as you keep the key depressed and it will give the answer as soon as you release the key. The old HP 28 models (and HP-18/19) have four lines which with four-level stack could be the ide size for the LCD {VPN} === Subject: Is this serious defect ?? << enter a input obj-> enter binput obj-> ->a b << a b + cos>> This works!! with cos which is built in fonction unlike sloveVX it wouldıt work at l .Do know what is wrong ? help please === Subject: Re: Is this serious defect ?? > << enter a input obj-> > enter binput obj-> > ->a b > << a b + cos>> >> > This works!! with cos which is built in fonction unlike sloveVX > it wouldıt work at l .Do know what is wrong ? help please >> cos and COS are different. Please use BIG leeters for the keywords. (Ofcource NOT when it is needed, like in:) (BetaTesting, Psi, dB, e, gmol, i, lbmol, lim, qr, rpm, rref) You may so try to use your own language, too. {VPN} AXL === Subject: Re: Is this serious defect ?? Donıt. I kind of like it. Toby > ... > You may so try to use your own language, too. > {VPN} AXL === Subject: Re: 49g+ freezes pull l the batteries including the backup > Iıve downloaded the StreetFighter2 game into my 49g+ and ran it... > Now, the cculator is locked and not responding. After aprox. 5 min, > strange lines appears on the display. It Œrespondsı only to pha, ->, > <-, and ON keys. Iıve tried ON+F3, ON+F1+F6, reset button, but nothing > solves this problem. Can you help me? === Subject: Re: 49g+ freezes Remove l the batteries, including the button one. Wait a few hours. place the batteries and while you cc is turning on press the [<-] (delete) key. Hopefully this will sort you out. As soon as the cc is on again, remove streetŜghter. === Subject: Re: 49g+ freezes > Remove l the batteries, including the button one. Wait a few hours. place > the batteries and while you cc is turning on press the [<-] (delete) key. > Hopefully this will sort you out. > As soon as the cc is on again, remove streetŜghter. > Arnaud It gave me the same for Worms (it doesnıt works on hp49g+) but simply remove and repce a battery and it works again.... a++ === Subject: Re: 49g+ freezes Do not take the batteries out - it doesnıt do anything. I did it... Here is how I solved the problen - THANKS to Joe Horn! === > Subject: Re: Can you wipe-out the content of port 2 (Flash) on the 49g+? > Hold down the backspace key while doing a warmstart... > Just in case it isnıt obvious, please be aware that it takes a fast > hand to do this correctly. You have to press and hold down the > backspace key IMMEDIATELY, the very moment that the warmstart begins. > This is much more difŜcult to do on a 49g+ than it is on a 49G. > If you can force a warmstart by pressing ON+C, then do it this way: > Press ON and hold it down, then press and release the C key (while > still holding down the ON key), then SIMULTANEOUSLY release the ON key > and press & hold the backspace key. Sounds complicated but it ainıt. > If Try To Revover Memory? is displayed, then take a deep breath, > then press and release NO and IMMEDIATELY press & hold the backspace > key. This oneıs the most difŜcult; there can be no more than ONE > PRECISE INSTANT between pressing the NO key and pressing the backspace > key. A fraction of an instant is even better but is not required. > If the crash is so bad that none of the above work, then perform a > paperclip reset with the backspace key held down, which will force the > reset to pause midway with the screen turned on but blank. To resume > the reset and bypass your libraries, momentarily release the backspace > key and immediately press & hold it again. Momentarily means of > duration greater than zero time and less than or equ to one precise > instant. > If the paperclip reset doesnıt work, you can fake it into thinking > that youıre going to update the ROM without actuly doing so. Hereıs > how to do that: Press and hold BOTH the + key and the - key while > performing a paperclip reset. You will see the screen turn on but > remain blank. Release the + and - keys. You will see the ROM Update > menu (1:Update Code, 2: Self Test, 3:Secret Menu [hidden]). Press 3 > to show the Secret Menu (actuly itıs the same one ordinarily > obtained by pressing ON+F). Now take a deep breath, press and release > ON and IMMEDIATELY press and hold the backspace key. This will force > the reset to pause midway with the screen turned on but blank. To > resume the reset and bypass your libraries, momentarily release the > backspace key and immediately press & hold it again. > L of these techniques will result in DROP Error: Too Few Arguments > or Memory Clear being displayed, and no libraries shown when you > press the LIB key. If libraries appear when you press LIB, you were > not fast enough; repeat the procedure more briskly. > Hope this helps! > -Joe- > If at Ŝrst you donıt succeed, try, try again. And then give up. > Donıt be a damn fool about it. -- Will Rogers > Remove l the batteries, including the button one. Wait a few hours. place > the batteries and while you cc is turning on press the [<-] (delete) key. > Hopefully this will sort you out. > As soon as the cc is on again, remove streetŜghter. > Arnaud === Subject: Re: 49g+ freezes My friend this is a menory disruption issue due to software loading that might have confused every information in memory.hint did you backed up cculator? If no proceed to warranty , do you have warranty if no well replace ot sought for repair. sorry about this way back up ya cculator. === Subject: Re: The RPN Symbolic ScientiŜc Cculator What youıre after has a name: HP42S! If you Ŝnd it, let me know, Iıll get a few. > Thatıs the hp cculator I would like to see: a non-graphing cculator with > many of the symbolic capabilities of the 49G+, as applicable to a two-line > display. Including the implementations of complex numbers, matrices (is > this English?), lists; plus fractions a 33S (22.3.4 = 22 3/4). Dont > forget soft menus, Some kind of linkage with a PC and othe ccs (IrDA > and/or cable), and a help system in cc. Oh, RPL included. > gebraic Mode? Well, as long as it switches to RPN, Itıs ok for those > Wmart curious, if it ever makes it there. > Toby === Subject: Re: The RPN Symbolic ScientiŜc Cculator > What youıre after has a name: HP42S! > If you Ŝnd it, let me know, Iıll get a few. I agree, but... hp42S have not at symbolic handling and fraction or comunication in/out - only out via IR. But hopfully Œnewı hp42S+ take good funktions from hp32II(hp33), like fraktions, symbolic and two-way comunication capability and little more memory, but not so much more then this - hp42S ready more or less Œperfectı!. - please hp!! make new enhance version of hp42S! HP42s is a very good Œeasyı daily use-cculator for this type of electric/physic problem including reactive-components (i). --- Complex handling is are exellent on hp42S, possible best handling in the world on sml caculators. I look around long time to Ŝnd replace for hp42S with och without RPN with good complex handling, but it is hopeless to Ŝnd, hp42s still unbeaten for this type of problem. Most different brand and models handling of complex number is only on four-funktion (+-/*), not more - ie. can not using complex number inside exp(3+i4), tan, cos, sin, sqr and this inverses for example... and miss complex matrice handling and solver like hp42S ... >>Thatıs the hp cculator I would like to see: a non-graphing cculator > with >>many of the symbolic capabilities of the 49G+, as applicable to a two-line >>display. Including the implementations of complex numbers, matrices (is >>this English?), lists; plus fractions a 33S (22.3.4 = 22 3/4). Dont >>forget soft menus, Some kind of linkage with a PC and othe ccs (IrDA >>and/or cable), and a help system in cc. Oh, RPL included. >>gebraic Mode? Well, as long as it switches to RPN, Itıs ok for those >>Wmart curious, if it ever makes it there. >>Toby /TE === Subject: Re: The RPN Symbolic ScientiŜc Cculator > Thatıs the hp cculator I would like to see: a non-graphing > cculator with many of the symbolic capabilities of the 49G+, as > applicable to a two-line display. Including the implementations > of complex numbers, matrices (is this English?), lists; plus > fractions a 33S (22.3.4 = 22 3/4). Dont forget soft menus, Some > kind of linkage with a PC and othe ccs (IrDA and/or cable), and > a help system in cc. Oh, RPL included. > gebraic Mode? Well, as long as it switches to RPN, Itıs ok for > those Wmart curious, if it ever makes it there. > Toby Yeah, That big staring eyebl poking out from the pocket is too much. If itıs Quity and holds-up, Iıll try it for 200 US. If itıs cheap, Iıll offer >>$ 39.99 << Jo === Subject: Re: Recling objects in SD card in ASM (was : Re: Be careful with HPlayer) >How permanently? HD, Tape, CD, >OR...pergamently >[VPN] >PS: I just saved on my HD > I save it in my Agent database (keep ways) which I occasionly put > on CD and transfer to another PC. Well that is a very good policy since using the CD to transfer to another PC just might revee CD errors that otherwise would go unnoticed. Back-up testing should ways be done immediately, so I will resort to this in the future PLUS I will use loc net to transfer the CD contents back to the Ŝrst PC for Ŝle comparison. {VPN} AXL === Subject: [hp49g+] Screen problem... I have a hp49g+ with seri number CN40202900, and when I press the F1 button, he 6th column of pixels disapears on the screen. It makes it much more when I press a bit hard on it. I think it is a wire in the unit that is badly placed. What do you have ? Should I send back my machine to have a new one ? a++ === Subject: Re: [hp49g+] Screen problem... > I have a hp49g+ with seri number CN40202900, and when I press the F1 > button, he 6th column of pixels disapears on the screen. It makes it > much more when I press a bit hard on it. I think it is a wire in the > unit that is badly placed. What do you have ? Should I send back my > machine to have a new one ? DeŜnately send it back {VPN} AXL === Subject: Re: [hp49g+] Screen problem... > I have a hp49g+ with seri number CN40202900, and when I press the F1 > button, he 6th column of pixels disapears on the screen. It makes it > much more when I press a bit hard on it. I think it is a wire in the > unit that is badly placed. What do you have ? Should I send back my > machine to have a new one ? > DeŜnately send it back > {VPN} AXL Perhaps, but they told me that it was the newest cculators they had and I donıt know at l if it is a inside wire problem. Do you HAVE this same problem ? (for ex : boot on your cc, on the stack, lock PHA, press hard the A key, and look at the Ŝrst soft menu : the middle should disappear for a short time if you have sml font on the stack, l : should disappear !!!). === Subject: Re: [hp49g+] Screen problem... > I have a hp49g+ with seri number CN40202900, and when I press the F1 > button, he 6th column of pixels disapears on the screen. It makes it > much more when I press a bit hard on it. I think it is a wire in the > unit that is badly placed. What do you have ? Should I send back my > machine to have a new one ? > DeŜnately send it back > {VPN} AXL > Perhaps, but they told me that it was the newest cculators they had > and I donıt know at l if it is a inside wire problem. Do you HAVE > this same problem ? > (for ex : boot on your cc, on the stack, lock PHA, press hard the > A key, and look at the Ŝrst soft menu : the middle should disappear > for a short time if you have sml font on the stack, l : should > disappear !!!). I have seen a HP LCD to loose one pixel column so that so the one to the right will be blank in certain circumstances, not quite what you described. Just show it to the clerks and SWAP to a working unit in the same store. {VPN} AXL === Subject: Re: Extending the IR range of the HP 49G+? > Would this be the same education market thatıs apparently too stupid to > reize that crippling the *receiver* (as in the HP48) is sufŜcient to > prevent cheating? Thereıs no need to limit the transmitterıs range. However, on the 48 series, because of the separates TX/RX leds, this was possible. IrDA uses a 1 peice tranceiver that has both TX and RX leds and where you can not control the power of the leds separately.... === Subject: Re: Extending the IR range of the HP 49G+? > Would this be the same education market thatıs apparently too stupid to > reize that crippling the *receiver* (as in the HP48) is sufŜcient to > prevent cheating? Thereıs no need to limit the transmitterıs range. > However, on the 48 series, because of the separates TX/RX leds, this was > possible. IrDA uses a 1 peice tranceiver that has both TX and RX leds and > where you can not control the power of the leds separately.... Using only one LED (or this du led system) must have saved 1 cent Carly needs a new person jet for 2005... {VPN} AXL PS: Cyrille: are you planning new ccs for year 2005? === Subject: Re: Extending the IR range of the HP 49G+? > About IrDA distance and power supply: > - The IrDA distance has been imited to 10cm in the 49G+ series because of > the education market Itıs less then 10cm and the reason is good enough for me. I will continue using my 48 for a remote control. > - the choice of AAA instead of AA has been done in order to get a better > physic size for the unit. AA battery are signiŜcantly bigger and would > have resulted in a signiŜcantly more top heavy and thick product. SigniŜcantly? Two AA would still give 2*energy AA is much cheaper in both cine and NiMH varianrs The poor student would like to bring the cost down. I hope you will consider using AA in the future! > now, the group can discuss these topic endlessly, and they obviously are > arguments on both side, and no side is better than the other one, which is > why the decision has to be made... BUT why it ways has to be a bad desision nowadays? d-: {VPN} AXL === Subject: Re: Whatıs the story with IrDA speeds? > That is very encouraging. I cannot reliably receive even 16 bytes at > a time (well under the buffer length) using the RS-232 port. I have no problem sending and receiving characters on my HP48GII.. Could it be your machine only? Canıt be a problem in software if it works in at least one machine.. === Subject: Re: Whatıs the story with IrDA speeds? > I have no problem sending and receiving characters on my HP48GII.. > Could it be your machine only? You mean our machineS only? We have 10 48G+ units l exhibiting the problem. > Canıt be a problem in software if it works in at least one machine.. > Sure it can. RS-232 seri communication (reception) is ways asynchronous with respect to your loc processor (software). Baud rate, character length, parity, pacing control, data transmission length and speed will l affect the loc machine differently. For example, you can probably imagine that you would probably never have a software related timing issue if the remote device was sending data one byte per second at 300 baud. We are using 9600 baud, no ŝow control, no parity sending 20 ASCII characters back and forth between two GII units. This is easy for you to try yourself. You will get a seri error within a couple minutes of operation. Keep in mind that you will not see any errors if you are using any type transmission protocols (any commands other than SRECV and XMIT). Any transmission errors would automaticly be retried without your knowledge. Bob === Subject: Re: Whatıs the story with IrDA speeds? > Okay, receiving 319260 consecutive bytes with no problems doesnıt > prove that a problem will never occur, but it does gives me some > conŜdence in receiving with IrDA, as long as I avoid buffer overruns. > That is very encouraging. I cannot reliably receive even 16 bytes at > a time (well under the buffer length) using the RS-232 port. > Yes, I very much reize that those techniques arenıt ways an > option. It seems a shame that HP broke XON/XOFF ŝow control. > I am not positive but I believe that the XON/XOFF characters are still > being sent. Problem may be that since the seri driver is so slow > XOFF is sent to late to stop the transfer from overŝowing the input > buffer. We donıt use XON/XOFF since our instruments are only replying > with very short strings. > It seems to me that youıd probably have been much better off sticking > with the 48 series. > I agree. I wish that was an option. We were pretty happy with the > 48G, GX and G+ units. Now we are at the mercy of ebay... I could swap in my 48SX (plus a spare with broken diode: eats batts like hay) and my 48GX (the foam needs a replacement, [ON] key response is bad) for a Tejas CPU :-D {VPN} AXL PS: I may even throw in a 49G, but then you have to give a 15C === Subject: Re: Instling Libraries on the 49G+ > I can ofŜcly tell everyone that I have never been > on any design team involving any cculator or pocket computer > of any type or brand. > BUT > I have (like many others) had some input for the designs > OUTSIDE from HP by writing to this newsgroup > and by writing to some of the designers and leaders directly. > MOST OF THE TIME my ingenious suggestions have been rejected. > Those which are accepted could so ready have belonged > to the origin design or were mentioned eventuly by so many people > that the design team judged to include them by *popular* demand. > Under any circumstances this does not quify me as a designer. > At least I have never seen any money (yet) directly from HP > in form of payment/royty for my hardware/software design services, > but maybe some day... > :-D > {VPN} AXL VPN, My apologies for not reading the Ŝrst page of the Userıs Manu for Trigmara correctly. I glossed over the cover page, and didnıt rely read it but saw your name at the bottom. That coupled with the fact that you had mentioned this program to me before I kind of assumed (yes, I know what assume stands for, and yes, I feel like one right now!) you were on the design team. Once again, my apologies. Eric === Subject: Re: Instling Libraries on the 49G+ > I can ofŜcly tell everyone that I have never been > on any design team involving any cculator or pocket computer > of any type or brand. > VPN, > My apologies for not reading the Ŝrst page of the Userıs Manu for > Trigmara correctly. I glossed over the cover page, and didnıt rely > read it but saw your name at the bottom. That coupled with the fact > that you had mentioned this program to me before I kind of assumed > (yes, I know what assume stands for, and yes, I feel like one right > now!) you were on the design team. Once again, my apologies. Now Google this if you are uncertain of the facts, folks! {VPN} AXL === Subject: Re: Instling Libraries on the 49G+ > OK, > Transfer TRISOL to the HP49g+. Do not move it to ports. Itıs not a library > object but User RPL program. Thatıs l. In order to use it you need to put > in the stack 2 arguments. Your equation in level 2 and the variable name you > wanna solve it for in level 1. Then hit the corresponding key (the one below > the menu label [TRISO]) and watch. Youıll get the solution in level 1. > You have to know how to use Equation Writer to input equations - read the > manus. > Here is an example: > SIN(X) > 2: -------- = 1 > COS(X) > 1: ŒXı > [TRISO] > 1: { { { } Œ X = pi*n1+ .25 * pi Œ } } > Iıd strongly advise you to get your hands on one of the HP48 owner manus > (the Ŝrst one that came with the HP48SX is the best IMHO). You can download > the one for the HP48G series from hpcc.org. There youıll Ŝnd what the > difference between library and program is :) > Hope this helps, > , even thought to look there. I sure am glad you cleared that up for me. I looked at the instructions on hpcc.org, and was more confused after reading them than I was before I started. I guess that was l due to the program type. How can you tell if a program is a library Eric === Subject: Re: Instling Libraries on the 49G+ Veli-Pekka Nousiainen for his remarks on conceptu errors in programs, for his ideas about key pressing conventions and so for the humour. from trigmara.pdf :D > Hi Eric, > Searching for TRIG... at hpcc.org I found trigmara - solving trig > equations. If thatıs what youıre tking about - (VPNıs name is there), > there is no libraries but programs in user RPL. One for the 48(trig48) and > the other for the 49(trisol). I checked the one for the 49 on my HP49g+, > it > works no problem as far as I can tell... I mean, performs the example in > the > PDF Ŝle with no error... donıt know about the result :) > Oh, now I understand the confusion... > Happy enough my name is not mentioned anywhere > Closest thing is the VP-OTE-N-TI command > If you do 256 MENU and scroll the pages to |BetaT| > you see a list of names who were BetaTesting the 49. > Iım not even there!! (I never had a proto of the 49) > {VPN} AXL === Subject: Re: Instling Libraries on the 49G+ > Veli-Pekka Nousiainen for his remarks on conceptu errors in > programs, for his ideas about key pressing > conventions and so for the humour. > from trigmara.pdf > :D > Hi Eric, > Searching for TRIG... at hpcc.org I found trigmara - solving trig > equations. If thatıs what youıre tking about - (VPNıs name is there), > there is no libraries but programs in user RPL. One for the 48(trig48) > and > the other for the 49(trisol). I checked the one for the 49 on my HP49g+, > it > works no problem as far as I can tell... I mean, performs the example in > the > PDF Ŝle with no error... donıt know about the result :) > Oh, now I understand the confusion... > Happy enough my name is not mentioned anywhere I just add to that: in the ofŜci HP cc manus/OS The trigmara.pdf is not from HP Yes - I have contributed to this community in many ways. BUT I can still claim that I have never been a part of any cculator/pocket PC design team (HW or SW). {VPN} AXL === Subject: Re: Instling Libraries on the 49G+ who said so anyway? === Subject: Re: Can the 49G+ convert coordinates between the three 3-dimension systems? How? TIA You should be in the Approx mode instead of Numeric mode. Sorry for that. kkng === Subject: Re: Can the 49G+ convert coordinates between the three 3-dimension systems? How? TIA First switch to numeric mode, then MTH VECTR NXT will show you RECT CYLIN and SPHER menu keys. You may switch the display of a 3 dimension vector in different coordinates with these menu keys. kkng === Subject: Re: Can the 49G+ convert coordinates between the three 3-dimension systems? How? TIA VP, Sorry for not being too clear...it was late when I asked. What I would like to be able to do is pop in say... some rectangular coordinates and convert them into maybe spheric or polar without having to go though the equations. I know how to change the modes from one system to another, but I canıt seem to Ŝnd an easy method for doing the actu coordinate conversion. Iım thinking that Iıll need to write a program for it. J >What do you mean? >[MODE] Coord System letıs you choose between >XYZ Rectangular (Cubic) >RR<< Spheric (Bl) >[VPN] === Subject: Re: Can the 49G+ convert coordinates between the three 3-dimension systems? How? TIA > VP, Sorry for not being too clear...it was late when I asked. What I > would like to be able to do is pop in say... some rectangular > coordinates and convert them into maybe spheric or polar without > having to go though the equations. I know how to change the modes > from one system to another, but I canıt seem to Ŝnd an easy method > for doing the actu coordinate conversion. Iım thinking that Iıll > need to write a program for it. BUT Have you tried something like RECT [3. 4. 12.] @ you have to use ŝoats/res here, eg. use dot SPHERE It should give [13. <)angle.1 <)angle.2] POLAR Will change the display to [5. <)angle.1 13.] {VPN} AXL >What do you mean? >[MODE] Coord System letıs you choose between >XYZ Rectangular (Cubic) >RR<< Spheric (Bl) >[VPN] === Subject: Re: Can the 49G+ convert coordinates between the three 3-dimension systems? How? TIA if you meant 3d coord transformation - disregard my previous post; further programming is needed... :{) > VP, Sorry for not being too clear...it was late when I asked. What I > would like to be able to do is pop in say... some rectangular > coordinates and convert them into maybe spheric or polar without > having to go though the equations. I know how to change the modes > from one system to another, but I canıt seem to Ŝnd an easy method > for doing the actu coordinate conversion. Iım thinking that Iıll > need to write a program for it. >What do you mean? >[MODE] Coord System letıs you choose between >XYZ Rectangular (Cubic) >RR<< Spheric (Bl) >[VPN] === Subject: Re: Can the 49G+ convert coordinates between the three 3-dimension systems? How? TIA there is no such a thing converting between coord systems - itıs a matter of representation. changing modes does it l. internly 3d point or vector is one entity... the way you see it depends on ŝag settings (modes). what do you mean to write program for? what exactly is that program gonna do? be clear when asking if you wanna get right answer :) > VP, Sorry for not being too clear...it was late when I asked. What I > would like to be able to do is pop in say... some rectangular > coordinates and convert them into maybe spheric or polar without > having to go though the equations. I know how to change the modes > from one system to another, but I canıt seem to Ŝnd an easy method > for doing the actu coordinate conversion. Iım thinking that Iıll > need to write a program for it. >What do you mean? >[MODE] Coord System letıs you choose between >XYZ Rectangular (Cubic) >RR<< Spheric (Bl) >[VPN] === Subject: Re: Can the 49G+ convert coordinates between the three 3-dimension systems? How? TIA > there is no such a thing converting between coord systems - itıs a matter of > representation. changing modes does it l. internly 3d point or vector is > one entity... the way you see it depends on ŝag settings (modes). what do > you mean to write program for? what exactly is that program gonna do? be > clear when asking if you wanna get right answer :) > VP, Sorry for not being too clear...it was late when I asked. What I > would like to be able to do is pop in say... some rectangular > coordinates and convert them into maybe spheric or polar without > having to go though the equations. I know how to change the modes > from one system to another, but I canıt seem to Ŝnd an easy method > for doing the actu coordinate conversion. Iım thinking that Iıll > need to write a program for it. > J If you are willing to work only with approximate vues, I have some fairly simple programs to do 2 dimension conversions between rectangular and plane polar, and so between any 2 of the 3 dimension rectangular, cylindric and spheric systems, based on the V->, ->V2 and ->V3 commands. I will illustrate with how to convert x, y and z on the stack to r, phi and theta on the stack in RPN mode with a fairly simple program. Be aware that it only produces approximate (ŝoating point) results. First create and store program << RCLF -> F << RECT ->V3 SPHERE V-> F STOF >> as, say ŒREC->SPHı Start with vues for x, y and z on levels 3,2, and 1 respectively, of the stack, in RPN mode, then execution of the above program leaves r, phi and theta, on levels 3, 2 and 1, respectively. To do other 3D comversions merely replace RECT and SPHERE in the above program by the appropriate source and destination commands, RECT, CYLIN, or SPHERE. Angular input for these ternatives should be in ŝoating point form. Then executing ŒREC->SPHı will do the conversion, leaving r, phi and theta on levels 3, 2 and 1, respectively, of the stack. and end with r, phi and theta on levers 3,2 === Subject: Re: View Key Assignment [was Assigning functions...] > Then hereıs another propos: How about adding a KEYS soft menu to > every item in the CAT? It would not only show which menu(s) the > command is in, but so which keys the command is assigned to. As the > number of commands grows out of control, the user will need more and > more help to access and use them l. > Example: Press CAT, scroll down to MOD, and see the following soft > menu keys: > [HELP] [KEYS] [ ] [CANCL] [ OK ] > Press KEYS and see the following: > M: MTH RE [these three represent menu paths] > M: ARITH MODUL NXT > M: <> NXT > U: RS+ARG [this represents a user key assignment] The next version of SDIAG will show the menu and standard keys for each User command, so in the catog (if you use RPLCPL as catog replacement). I guess the UserKey thing is harder... - Carsten === Subject: Re: Anyone interested in TI-55? I am interested in a TI-55III. Just wondering of you still have them for se and what are you asking for them? I use mine everyday, but am afraid that is will die sooner or later. Does yours have a programmable constant === Subject: Re: Power48 stability on Pm OS 5.0 Iıhappy using Power48, because I was a happy 48g user. Itıs more confortble use it on a 320x480 screen. > Iıve heard about Power48 and what a great emulator it is on the Pm > OS platform. Sever questions: > -How stable is it, in terms of crash-ability, and especily for > someone who is not 100% familiar with HP-cculators? (I used to have > an HP-49G, and sold it again because I didnıt want to take the time to > learn how to use it well. Now Iım interested in learning again, but > how able will I be to learn it using the emulator on the Pm, or will > I ways be crashing the pm, not knowing what Iım doing?) > -How is it speedwise? How does it compare to the speed of the > HP-49G+? > -If I own a TI graphing cculator (TI-92+, which is big and bulky), > would it be worth it to use the Power48 emulator as a way to become > more portable (and as something that is faster, and more > customizable)? > What else can users tell me about Power48? > Phillip V.92ctor Achiaga çlvarez ------------------------------------------------------------- --------- 6 May*tEDSAC demonstrated, 1949 ------------------------------------------------------------- --------- De mis disparates de juventud, lo que me da m.87s pena no es haberlos cometido, sino no poder volver a cometerlos. Pierre Benoit ------------------------------------------------------------- --------- === Subject: Re: Difference between HP 33S and 32SII >> Of course you can select RPN for you or gebric when you lend the cc < deleted list of every physic constant in the known universe > Bill === Subject: Re: Difference between HP 33S and 32SII >> Of course you can select RPN for you or gebric when you lend the cc > < deleted list of every physic constant in the known universe > Bill, itıs nothing compared to when I tk.... {VPN} AXL === Subject: Re: Difference between HP 33S and 32SII >> Of course you can select RPN for you or gebric when you lend the > cc > < deleted list of every physic constant in the known universe > > Bill, itıs nothing compared to when I tk.... > {VPN} AXL Terve! === Subject: My new 33S I just received a 33S from Samson Cables. In the 30 minutes or so that I have played with it I have the following observations: Overl, I like it. Keyboard: The key feel/response is very nice. I donıt care of the inverted chevron pattern and the enter key missplacement will take a little getting used to, but neither is a killer problem for me. Display: My only complaint with the the 32SII display was the fact that it was single line. I like the idea of a two line display very much. This is particularly helpful when using complex numbers, which I do very often. The decim point is a little difŜcult to see with certain numbers, but I can live with it. I am experiencing minim shadows in the display. Again, not a problem. Case: I donıt mind the color scheme or feel of the case. It could have been a little smler. With the rubber gripping surfaces, it is hard to get into the case and the case is too large for a shirt pocket. What would I change: 1. Most important! Add a complex number data type. I donıt care if it is like the 28 series and assumes l complex numbers are in rectangular coordinates when performing cculations. I can remember to convert to rectangular if need be. 2. Rectangular keyboard layout. Lose the chevron/cell phone layout. That is about it. Number 1 would make this the ide engineers cc, imo. It would certainly make it more useful on the FE and PE exams (particularly the electric PE). As I said, I am an electric engineer in the power Ŝeld and I use complex number arithmetic every day. Charles Perry P.E. === Subject: Re: My new 33S > I just received a 33S from Samson Cables. In the 30 minutes or so that I > have played with it I have the following observations: > Overl, I like it. > Keyboard: The key feel/response is very nice. I donıt care of the > inverted chevron pattern and the enter key missplacement will take a little > getting used to, but neither is a killer problem for me. > Display: My only complaint with the the 32SII display was the fact that > it was single line. I like the idea of a two line display very much. You want hp42s! > This is particularly helpful when using complex numbers, HP42S displays Œ123.0 i123.0ı _or_ Œ173.9 |_45.0ı on one line in display depend of display mode. ie. you possible to see two complex numbers on two line display same time. ( Œ|_ı is a angle sign simular hp48G/hp49G) > which I do very often. > The decim point is a little difŜcult to see with certain numbers, but I > can live with it. I am experiencing minim shadows in the display. Again, > not a problem. > Case: I donıt mind the color scheme or feel of the case. It could have > been a little smler. With the rubber gripping surfaces, it is hard to get > into the case and the case is too large for a shirt pocket. > What would I change: > 1. Most important! Add a complex number data type. I donıt care if it is > like the 28 series and assumes l complex numbers are in rectangular > coordinates when performing cculations. I can remember to convert to > rectangular if need be. Again, you want hp42s :-) Is have 4 level complex numbers on stack, not only two in hp32II or hp33s case and can store complex numbers on register or up to six character variables. you can so using and operate on complex matrices and storing this on up to six character variables. you have so complex matrice solver and can handle similar kirshoffs net-problem include reacive and complex components. Is only memory space to --- I guess very many of hp42s users is not know how good hp42s handle complex number space - itıs not a deafult mode and need few moment to change registers from reell mode to complex mode, and easy to missing this. > 2. Rectangular keyboard layout. Lose the chevron/cell phone layout. I agree! good cculator is not same as a Nokia cellphone... > That is about it. Number 1 would make this the ide engineers cc, imo. > It would certainly make it more useful on the FE and PE exams (particularly > the electric PE). As I said, I am an electric engineer in the power > Ŝeld and I use complex number arithmetic every day. hp42S + fraction and symbolic handle (stolen from hp33?) + I/O to compute, give possible no 1 engineering cc. imo. :-) /TE === Subject: Re: My new 33S > I just received a 33S from Samson Cables. In the 30 minutes or so that I > have played with it I have the following observations: > Overl, I like it. > Keyboard: The key feel/response is very nice. I donıt care of the > inverted chevron pattern and the enter key missplacement will take a little > getting used to, but neither is a killer problem for me. > Display: My only complaint with the the 32SII display was the fact that > it was single line. I like the idea of a two line display very much. > You want hp42s! I have a 42S. I am just afraid to carry it around. If I break it, it would be very expensive to replace. Charles Perry P.E. === Subject: Re: My new 33S (LONG) > I just received a 33S from Samson Cables. In the 30 minutes or so that I > have played with it I have the following observations: > Overl, I like it. > Keyboard: The key feel/response is very nice. I donıt care of the > inverted chevron pattern and the enter key missplacement will take a little > getting used to, but neither is a killer problem for me. > Display: My only complaint with the the 32SII display was the fact that > it was single line. I like the idea of a two line display very much. This > is particularly helpful when using complex numbers, which I do very often. > The decim point is a little difŜcult to see with certain numbers, but I > can live with it. I am experiencing minim shadows in the display. Again, > not a problem. > Case: I donıt mind the color scheme or feel of the case. It could have > been a little smler. With the rubber gripping surfaces, it is hard to get > into the case and the case is too large for a shirt pocket. > What would I change: > 1. Most important! Add a complex number data type. I donıt care if it is > like the 28 series and assumes l complex numbers are in rectangular > coordinates when performing cculations. I can remember to convert to > rectangular if need be. > 2. Rectangular keyboard layout. Lose the chevron/cell phone layout. > That is about it. Number 1 would make this the ide engineers cc, imo. > It would certainly make it more useful on the FE and PE exams (particularly > the electric PE). As I said, I am an electric engineer in the power > Ŝeld and I use complex number arithmetic every day. > Charles Perry P.E. Hi Charles, You are more adaptable than me. I see too many problems--problems which IMO are inexcusable. The following mistakes could have been made right the Ŝrst time, for no addition cost: 1. Decim Point. Come On! Do it right the Ŝrst time. Absolutely stupid to miss that--- 2. Radian Mode Bug after reset. If you are in Radians mode, do a keyboard test, and reset, the RAD marker goes away, but you are still in radians! 3.When in G mode, using the scroll buttons to review the Re and Im parts, if you inadvertently scroll too many down, you start Single STepping through the program listings! The right vs down directions should be better managed here---right for SST, Down for Complex Mode or something like that. Poor Documentation Issues: 4. in G mode, more than once, and you start operating on a constant (the last number you entered operating on l before it). (OK, this may be good, but it should be documented--and it is very unlike a typic HP ScientiŜc Gebraic machine.) 5. Page 17-2 Says In RPN Mode when discussing entering a function into the equation list. It will work in G or RPN. 6. This is a big one. Lastx in G is not described properly. {} for intermediates, [] for results on-Ln to clear. 4 + 3 [7] then 8 * 8 [64] Now 6 + {64} [70] + {64} [134] {0} Whereıs last x? NOT like RPN Lastx---nor like the 20s---where is the description? Further: X<>Y in G mode. It is only obtusely mentioned, in the instructions for deing with 2-var STAT and Limits of Integration. The fact is, you can carry on two chain cculations simultaneously (anogous to what the 20s is capable of with its SWAP command, but implemented differently). Further, this X<>Y business has a strange and TOTLY UNDOCUMENTED behavior with the register. Try this: 4 * 5 X<>Y {0} 9 [36] X<>Y {5} * X<>Y {36} [180] X<>Y {5} + {0 what!} [5] X<>Y {180} + 2 * {0 what!} [0] X<>Y {5} + 7 [12] 4 + {12} [16] etc. So it looks like an interesting excersize, but it is (a) confusing, (b) not related to the RPN model at l, (c) not documented! 7. In G mode, the stack (x1 x2 x3 x4) is not properly documented. What is it? Only says that it has something to do with integration, equations and solve. This should be better documented. 8.Hornerıs Method has been transcribed to G!!! What the F! The whole POINT of the HP RPN Hornerıs Method was to avoid having to recl from a variable (read p. 79 of 15c manu). 9. Some classic programs from past models have been transcribed to G, but most, not. Why? No logic to this. Would be better to have a separate G and RPN secction---or steer the reader to see such and such available on www.hp,,,,,,or some other manu or at least a plan or explanation. It is whimsic. 10.Appendix B should be labelled as applicable to RPN only. 11. Interesting to note that the use of either the Complex Numbers or the 2-var stats for solving vector problems is not mentioned--it was mentioned in earlier models. Just interesting to see the omission. (The manu is thick). Design Choices that Rely Should Have been Made or Made Differently: 13. For G mode, there aught to be a Swap button as in the 20s. You can work around it, but it so often happens that you start a chain cculation upside down, you rely aught to be able to right side it! The whole G implementation is messy. We now have Three (3) input methods on the machine: RPN, Equation List, and G. And the G method is different from the Eq List--it is postŜx for one-number functions (Eq List is inŜx), yet it locks the numbers into an equation line (that cannot be edited). It is neither EOS nor AOS. It is neither a computation interface, nor a language. Further, it is so out of step with the RPN side--like totly different thinking--but not a standard input method (writing an equation, say). I rely have a lot of examples for this incompatibility business, but I am running out of time. I will go over them later, though. Some Addition Ideas that Would Have Made More Sense: Why not have an Gebraic history stack like the 19bii 17bii 27s? This could have been implemented, and would have been far better for helping with the cross-compatibility to the RPN mode. It so provides the G user with a much better tool l told. The Equation List should have been revised to low editing---not backspacing to get to errors. With l the memory, this would have made a great tool--but who wants to enter a long Equation only to be unable to Ŝx it! And it could have been implemented like the 17bii---so that the variables come up on line one when you use the equation in the solver. Instead, we have the same incomplete thought of the 32sii. I understand the historic reason for not having true complex mode (it comes from the pre-15c days) but rely, we have a 2-line display and lots of memory---why not low squares and square roots of negatives? The keyboard is Atrocious. l the worst parts of the 32sii (like letıs just cram the extras on somewhere) just even worse. And it looks like a cowcatcher! (Credit to Mr. Hill for that one). Too little space between keys, too crowded in appearance. Basicly, I suspect the G business took away resources and time from the design team. Instead of a rely well thought-out product with excellent features, we have a device which conŝicts with itself. Bill P.S. If anyone can Ŝnd proper documentation for the items I ahve listed as undocumented, please tell me--I am willing to eat crow on this! === Subject: Re: My new 33S (LONG) > The whole G implementation is messy. We now have Three (3) input methods > on the machine: RPN, Equation List, and G. And the G method is > different from the Eq List--it is postŜx for one-number functions (Eq List > is inŜx), yet it locks the numbers into an equation line (that cannot be > edited). It is neither EOS nor AOS. It is neither a computation > interface, nor a language. Further, it is so out of step with the RPN > side--like totly different thinking--but not a standard input method > (writing an equation, say). BUT I like the new G mode!!! Itıs the I have ever seen on any other brand! It works just the way I want a simple G mode to work! Only the HP-71B CC mode might be better... === Subject: Re: My new 33S (LONG) Maybe because single-argument functions remain RPN even in G mode (from what I read in the PDFıs). So, You are not fully drenched in gebraic mode! Toby > The whole G implementation is messy. We now have Three (3) input > methods > on the machine: RPN, Equation List, and G. And the G method is > different from the Eq List--it is postŜx for one-number functions (Eq > List > is inŜx), yet it locks the numbers into an equation line (that cannot > be > edited). It is neither EOS nor AOS. It is neither a computation > interface, nor a language. Further, it is so out of step with the RPN > side--like totly different thinking--but not a standard input method > (writing an equation, say). > BUT I like the new G mode!!! > Itıs the I have ever seen on any other brand! > It works just the way I want a simple G mode to work! > Only the HP-71B CC mode might be better... >LG mode === Subject: Re: My new 33S (LONG) > Maybe because single-argument functions remain RPN even in G mode (from > what I read in the PDFıs). So, You are not fully drenched in gebraic > mode! > Toby Isnıt this norm?! I have old Casios, Radio Shacks, etc and l use posŜx for single arguement functions. Charles Perry P.E. === Subject: Re: My new 33S (LONG) >>Maybe because single-argument functions remain RPN even in G mode (from >>what I read in the PDFıs). So, You are not fully drenched in gebraic >>mode! >>Toby > Isnıt this norm?! I have old Casios, Radio Shacks, etc and l use posŜx > for single arguement functions. Not rely. Most gebraic cculators these days let you enter things as on paper. EG to entry sin(95+7/2)^9, you could just type sin(95+7/2)^9 = > Charles Perry P.E. === Subject: Re: My new 33S (LONG) > Maybe because single-argument functions remain RPN even in G mode (from > what I read in the PDFıs). So, You are not fully drenched in gebraic > mode! > Toby > Isnıt this norm?! I have old Casios, Radio Shacks, etc and l use posŜx > for single arguement functions. Yep! AND the good thing in the 33s is that you see the history in the header while l your cculations are executed ASAP === Subject: Re: My new 33S (LONG) > The whole G implementation is messy. We now have Three (3) input > methods > on the machine: RPN, Equation List, and G. And the G method is > different from the Eq List--it is postŜx for one-number functions (Eq > List > is inŜx), yet it locks the numbers into an equation line (that cannot > be > edited). It is neither EOS nor AOS. It is neither a computation > interface, nor a language. Further, it is so out of step with the RPN > side--like totly different thinking--but not a standard input method > (writing an equation, say). > BUT I like the new G mode!!! > Itıs the I have ever seen on any other brand! > It works just the way I want a simple G mode to work! Terve Veli-Pekka! You only like it cause you are a mathematic gadget freak and it is a chlenge ! ;^0) (I like the chlenge, too!) Seriously, though, in the future we will have to compare notes on how this G thing rely works--maybe we can even write a book. > Only the HP-71B CC mode might be better... I wish I had one of them..... Bill === Subject: Re: My new 33S (LONG) It seems nearly l of your complaints are regarding operation in G mode. That is great since I will never use the machine in G mode. If I wanted an gebraic cculator, I would have bought a cheaper one, like a TI. Charles Perry P.E. === Subject: Re: My new 33S (LONG) > > It seems nearly l of your complaints are regarding operation in G mode. > That is great since I will never use the machine in G mode. If I wanted > an gebraic cculator, I would have bought a cheaper one, like a TI. > Charles Perry P.E. Yes, this is true. And I feel the same way---Iıll use RPN happily. It just seems to me a waste of resources---when so many rely useful features could have been implemented. Bill Platt === Subject: Re: My new 33S I just got mine right now as well and agree with the comments regarding the case (and others). With the 49g+ I can use a 48G case to make it smler. Unfortunately the 33 does not Ŝt in a 32 case. === Subject: Clarity with KEYTIME I have about 2 monthsı experience with my 49g+ and just hate the keyboard! I know that Iım not one. Despite reading sever posts here, the info on hpcc.org, AND the instructions on the ofŜci HP49g+ site http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?lc=en&cc=us& docname=bpia5175&pro duct=351775&dlc=en&lang=en I just canıt seem to access the function KEYTIME; not even in (gulp) gebraic mode. Are others out there with this problem, too? S/N CN352X, ROM 1.23. Bob May === Subject: Re: Clarity with KEYTIME ->KEYTIME ; KEYTIME-> > I have about 2 monthsı experience with my 49g+ and just hate the > keyboard! I know that Iım not one. Despite reading sever posts > here, the info on hpcc.org, AND the instructions on the ofŜci > HP49g+ site http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?lc=en&cc=us& docname=bpia5175&pro duct=351775&dlc=en&lang=en > I just canıt seem to access the function KEYTIME; not even in (gulp) > gebraic mode. > Are others out there with this problem, too? > S/N CN352X, ROM 1.23. > Bob May === Subject: Re: Clarity with KEYTIME > ->KEYTIME ; KEYTIME-> Yes hp should have this one corrected on their web site Arnaud? === Subject: Re: The hp cc you like the least >>you, have you ever looked at an 11C or 15C? Both are similar and very >>simple to use, have a nicer keyboard layout, smler size, near perfect >>keyboard feel and most importantly are RPN only. > I am currently in negotiations to acquire an 11C but havenıt had the chance > to come by a 15C. I still like the 20s very much, I donıt know why but there > something about it. Maybe it is that I can lend it to people and say look > how good are hp cculators. > I still Ŝnd it hard to believe that some one who knows RPN would want > to use anything else, but that may be because I havenıt used anything > but RPN in the over 20 years. immediately liked it. At $20 who couldnıt! It has good buttons, 10 memories, is truly programmable (not like some of the cheap programmable casios or sharps I had seen before(EL 5020?) ), capable of du chain ccs, etc etc. It rely is a well thought-out system. One type of input logic is not the end-l be-l of good design--but a logic consistent system is important. > How about tell me what exact key strokes > are required to Ŝnd the answer to (61+45)/(11+23) on the 20s. 61 + 45 ) / (11 + 23 = (No, that is not a mistake. You do not need l the parentheses). compare to 61 Ent 45 + 11 Ent 23 + / one stroke different RPN wins > Maybe > these gebraic cculators have started doing something to make stuff > like that easier than RPN but I will have to see it to believe it. > One of the nice things about using the HP cculators in high school was > that no one would ever ask to borrow it more than once :) ABOSLUTELY! >But if you > want to show some one how great HP cculators are, teach them RPN and > open a whole new world to them. > Chris W > http://thewishzone.com:8086/ Bill === Subject: Re: The hp cc you like the least > I still Ŝnd it hard to believe that some one who knows RPN would want > to use anything else, but that may be because I havenıt used anything > but RPN in the over 20 years. How about tell me what exact key strokes > are required to Ŝnd the answer to (61+45)/(11+23) on the 20s. Maybe > these gebraic cculators have started doing something to make stuff > like that easier than RPN but I will have to see it to believe it. The hp20s will use exactly the same keystrokes as you would expect. I love RPN and would certainly rate an RPN 20 above the gebric one but as it stands, the 20 functionnity is so well adapted to my needs, not too much not too little, that I rate it better than the 32. so for me, the number of keystrokes is not the re advantage of RPN, just like the processor speed of a PC is not l that count. What I like about RPN is that you keep oranges with oranges and apples with apples. In you exemple, in RPN it is evident that 65 and 45 are in the same units and that 11 is consistent with 23. In gebric notatio, everything is on the same level.