mm-1037 > Recall that (x,s)-space is a poor mans version of string space > (with the advantage of being finite-dimensional and thus more > tractable). A 2-connection in ordinary x-space corresponds to a > 1-connection A_i(x,s) in string space. For clarity, Ill write out > arguments and indices explicitly. The 1-connection transforms in > the usual ways under gauge transformations in (x,s)-space and > diffeomorphisms in x-space, extended to (x,s)-space by requiring > that s transforms as a vector. This makes the 2-form curvature > F_ij(x,s) = d_i A_j(x,s) - d_j A_i(x,s) + [A_i(x,s), A_j(x,s)] > (d_i = d/dx^i) well-defined, and we can use it to write down a > nice invariant action which generalizes Yang-Mills. When you go to the continuum limit with this you see that the surface holonomy this induces is independent of the path in loop space or path space (what you call string space) precisely if your A (which is usually called B) is abelian (first noticed by C. Teitelboim in Phys. Lett. B 167 (1986) 63). You can then augment your connection by the adjoint action of a target space 1-form as in hep-th/9710147, hep-th/0207017, hep-th/0407122 (which is implied by gauge transformations on loop space) and find that now the surface holonomy is independent of the path in loop space precisely if the non-abelian 1-form and the 2-form together satisfy a certain condition, which is precisely the condition that these forms define a weak 2-connection, i.e. a functor from the strict 2-groupoid of bigons to a sesqui-group. A special case of this is a slightly stromger condition which makes this a strict 2-connection (hep-th/0309173), i.e. a functor to a strict 2-group. The objects on loop space can be shown to be well-defined precisely if the background 1+2 form gauge fields satisfy certain equations of motion. For the case B=0 this is shown in hep-th/0312260 for the non-abelian and in hep-th/9909027 and JHEP 04 (2000) 023 for the abelian case. This easily generalizes to non-abelian and nontrivial B, as discussed in hep-th/0407122. === Subject: Re: Operator product question > ... schrieb im Newsbeitrag > All these reasons led the people to focus on the open string field theory > whose action can be well-defined - e.g. the cubic (polynomial) Wittens > action; it is enough to get the full amplitudes and cover the full Riemann > surface moduli spaces. Can one see all physics of string theory in it? > Well, the first problem are the closed string states. They can be seen as > poles in open string scattering, but as far as I know, no one has made a > convincing construction of the closed strings as composites of the open > string fields so far. The understanding of the closed strings would have > to improve a lot so that one could also construct non-trivial geometric > configurations including NS21-branes (or NS5-branes) etc. in open SFT. What looks plausible and weird at the same time is that in the nonperturbative vacuum of OSFT (as it is sometimes called), meaning the point where the tachyon is sitting in its minimum and the D25 brane has completely decayed, the BRST operator of the OSFT with that background is pure ghost and has trivial cohomology. On the one hand side this is plausible, because at this point the open strings must have disappeared, so that it makes sense that no non-trivial physical states are left. On the other hand *something* should be left, namely physical states of closed strings. Where are they in this picture? I have once seen a paper arguing how these might arise from that pure-ghost BRST operator, but I didnt understand the construction and forget which paper that was, unfortunately. > Another question are the D-branes. Using the modern perspective, the open > strings themselves describe dynamics of a spacetime filling D-brane. Sens > insights made it expected that one can construct the lower dimensional > branes as classical solutions of open string field theory. And this has been checked in many examples, hasnt it? > I think that its internal dynamics is itself target space dynamics of > some other string theory; I have the N=2 and N=(2,1) string in mind. Thats one of the most intriguing things that I have ever heard of, which was when you first told me about it at the SCT http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/string/archives/000265.html# c000386. It seems to imply that what one needs is a field theory of target space theories (as opposed to an ordinary target space field theory ,-) of the N=(2,1) string. It would automatically contain the ordinary string as well as membrane degrees of freedom and the like. Hm, so maybe the ordinary cubic vertex of OSFT must be replaced by some sort of vertex of objects living in a delPezzo or something? > ... One more comment. There have been some Japanese papers that studied > the behavior of the boundary states under the closed-string > Kyoto-group-like SFT star product; the boundary states act as projectors, > roughly speaking. This sort of thinking, even though it is formal, looks > like an important step towards obtaining the non-perturbative > generalization of CFT mentioned above. Today, our consistency requirements > for closed strings and open strings follow similar logic, but technically > they are different. So maybe one can make a change of variables from string degrees of freedom to brane-degrees of freedom in the SFT formulaiton: Usually the string field Phi is expanded in terms of worldhseet oscilllation with respect to the ordinary worldsheet vacuum. On the other hand, as you point out, there are string fields Phi, the boundary states, which are far from that worldsheet vacuum and describe offshell states that encode various D-branes. Maybe there are enough of these boundary states that one can expand any other string field in terms of them? hat would replace the ordinary expansion in terms of string oscialltions by something like an expansion in terms of D-brane states. The question would be: Do the boundary states of SFT form a complete set in an appropriate sense? I think this might even be true. To me the fact that boundary states which encode a space-filling brane with arbitrary gauge field excitations are just a recombination of DDF states hints at precisely such a reformulation. > This is a sort of bootstrap thinking, but maybe not so impossible - it may > be just a generalization of CFTs. BTW, your exposition has generated some reactions over here: http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/blog/archives/000080.html . === Subject: Deep questions in string cosmology The science journalist Ruediger Vaas has posted to the String Coffee Table http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/string/archives/000424.html#c001571 in (string) cosmology, emphasizing the notion of the beginning of time in cosmology as well as the very nature of space and time. If anyone feels like thinking about philosophical questions on the basis of current ideas in cosmology and string theory he or she will certainly enjoy In particular, Ruediger is challenging string theorists to provide him with demonstrations that spacetime is a secondary and derived concept in string theory and he is wondering about the question if and in which sense strings can be considered as being elementary. Interesting replies have a good chance of being incorporated in future German science journal Bild der Wissenschaft http://bdw.wissenschaft.de/bdw/heft/liste.html . === Subject: Re: Background Independence > [Moderators note: Well, if there are massless D3-branes, then the > CFT breaks down. The CFT can perturbatively treat the perturbative > string states only, and they are too light and unable to change > the topology too much. Perturbative string theory is only OK if the > states that it neglects - such as D-branes - are heavy or otherwise > decoupled. Its not just a matter of calculational > complexity: it is also difficult physically to change the topology > of space. LM] Im not sure if youre disagreeing with Rufus as Ive quoted him in the post above, or just with my interpretation of what he was saying.... Also, I thought you said the D3-branes in the target space can be described by adding a boundary to the world sheet CFT. Is this what you mean by break down? [Moderators note: No. Infinitely extended D3-branes or D3-branes wrapped on finite volumes are, indeed, represented by adding all possible worldsheets that can also have the boundaries with the boundary conditions associated with these D3-branes. The conformal field theory is generalized, according to Polchinskis recipe, and it accounts for the physics of the original background plus the D3-branes. However, I was talking about *massless* D3-branes. If you consider a topology change similar to the conifold transition, you will find out that there are 3-dimensional cycles at the conifold point - the singular point in the moduli space where the manifold pinches off. D3-branes can be wrapped on these vanishing cycles (3-dimensional submanifolds of vanishing volume), and because their total mass is proportional to the volume and the volume goes to zero, these D3-branes are massless. Thats a disaster for the conformal field theory. The well-behaved, finite-mass D3-branes can be represented by boundaries of the worldsheets, and the worldsheets with too many boundaries become increasingly irrelevant. However, if the D3-branes are massless, the worldsheets with very many boundaries cannot be neglected - in fact, they are at least as important as the worldsheet with a few boundaries. Consequently, the sum over Riemann surfaces with boundaries does not converge at all, and you cant get any finite results out of it. By breaking down in physics, we always mean that the theory does not work at all anymore, and your calculations lead to nonsensical (divergent) results. This is what happens with a CFT if some D-branes become massless. More generally, this breakdown occurs for any as soon as you try to describe a situation in which some other always mean a disaster for your original description. You may object by saying that the D3-branes *were* accounted for because we *wanted* to add the boundaries. That might have been true, but they were not treated as *perturbative* objects but rather as solitons (a generalization of the magnetic monopole; a classical solution interpreted as a very heavy object). This solitonic description is not good enough if they are light; if the D3-branes become light, i.e. if the volume of the 3-cycle shrinks to zero, the D3-branes should be considered on equal footing with the fundamental strings, which is certainly not what the conformal field theory is doing. However, this democratic treatment *can* be achieved if we use a spacetime effective field theory - with light perturbative string states *and* the new fields arising from the light/massless D3-branes. This strategy was chosen by Andy Strominger, and he was the first one who understood that the existence of D3-branes exactly accounts for all singularities seen in the field theoretical description. He found out that the full string theory, including all the predicted D3-branes etc., is smooth and non-singular. A week later, he and Brian Greene and David Morrison extended this fact and showed that topology can be changed at this point. Rufus understand that the pure conformal field theory is meaningless at the point where the D3-branes become massless, i.e. at the very moment when the topology change occurs. LM] ------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- This post submitted through the LaTeX-enabled physicsforums.com To view this post with LaTeX images: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=38812#post316269 === Subject: Re: T-dual coordinate > [Moderators note: I thought you wanted closed strings - see page 249 > (middle) and 250 of Polchinski I for the description of the shift > between velocities and momenta. The situation of open strings is > related, but you should keep in mind that the open strings can end > on various D-branes, and the distance between the D-branes is T-dual > to the Wilson line that breaks U(2) to U(1)^2, for example. One must > also realize that B+F is the only physical combination because the > electromagnetic potential A living on the brane transforms under the > B-fields gauge invariance, Bto B+dlambda, Ato A-lambda. LM] always considering open strings with no chan-paton factors, and the equation I have in the earlier posts: X^9(sigma=pi) - X^9(sigma=0) = pi*(n/R + p^1) is supposed to be the set of possible lengths of an open string stretching between two copies of the same D-brane, but with an unwanted dependence on p^1. Ive taken a step too far though, as it should be: X^9(sigma=pi) - X^9(sigma=0) = pi*(G_{9,9}p^9 + G_{1,9}p^1) I was then (foolishly) assuming p^9 = n/R, but I think really it should be (G_{9,9}p^9 + G_{1,9}p^1)=n/R thats quantized, I guess. Then you have the usual equation for the length of the string stretching between D-branes, with no p^1 dependence. So it was a red herring, really - at least I think so, now. The classical sigma model calculation still seems like a neat way to see the transformation of all the background fields, though, and the more general relation between X and X with background fields turned on. ------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- This post submitted through the LaTeX-enabled physicsforums.com To view this post with LaTeX images: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=41365#post316907 === Subject: Re: Self-dual lattices everything above. I hadnt realised that the enhanced gauge symmetry can occur when Lambda is not necessarily self-dual, and presumably even when Lambda is self-dual there may be no enhanced gauge symmetry. (I guess the examples Id seen incorrectly gave me the impression that self-duality of Lambda was associated with a non-abelian symmetry). [Moderators note: Yes, the example with non-self-dual lattices and extended symmetry is given in the previous posting - a self-dual radius of X9 and a generic radius of X8. On the other hand, type II string theories do not have any enhanced non-Abelian symmetry even at the special value of the radii. LM] While I expected the proposition at the top of this thread to be too strong to be true, somehow there must still be a relation between every lattice giving rise to extra massless states, and the appropriate Lie group? This connection still seems a bit mysterious to me. [Moderators note: I am not exactly sure why. Write down a Yang-Mills theory with a general gauge group and study its perturbative spectrum. You will find the gauge bosons. If you classify them according to the U(1)^l charges - under the Cartan subalgebra - the charges that will appear will be exactly the roots of the Lie algebra. A string theory can describe the same Yang-Mills theory at low energies if its spectrum - the spectrum of possible vibrating strings - reproduces the required spectrum of the gluons. The existence and properties of gauge bosons is exactly what contains the information about the gauge group. There and they *define* what the gauge group is. LM] ------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- This post submitted through the LaTeX-enabled physicsforums.com To view this post with LaTeX images: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=41595#post316260 === Subject: Re: Self-dual lattices Sorry, Ive also just realised that you imply that the enhanced gauge symmetry can occur when Lambda is not necessarily self-dual...and perhaps also that there may be no enhanced symmetry even when Lambda is self-dual. So probably there is no reason to expect a connection between the gauge groups and the self-dual lattices.... [Moderators note: Right. For example, the enhanced symmetry appears if the radius of X9 is T-self-dual, but the radius of X8 can be anything. The lattice of allowed momenta (p8,p9) is not self-dual, because X8 breaks it, but nevertheless there will be new gauge bosons and non-Abelian symmetry. LM] ------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- This post submitted through the LaTeX-enabled physicsforums.com To view this post with LaTeX images: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=41595#post316274 id 1C5mu8-0007wN-51 === Subject: Ive got a question... I wouldve posted this question in the chemistry newsgroup but the people in there seem like idiots and I fear it would never get answered. Heat is defined as the vibration of molecules right? Well how does heat then travels through a vacuum? by mailbox4.ucsd.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DDnNft049821 === Subject: Re: Ive got a question... RCVD_IN_ORBS,REFERENCES version=2.55 > I wouldve posted this question in the chemistry newsgroup but the > people in there seem like idiots and I fear it would never get > answered. Heat is defined as the vibration of molecules right? Well how > does heat then travels through a vacuum? Radiation. Jeff -- Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address. id 1C6Tm8-000LuP-C8 CC: sci-space-science@moderators.isc.org === Subject: Re: Ive got a question... > Heat is defined as the vibration of molecules right? No. Heat is the average randomized kinetic energy per volume. Vibration of molecules is one such form of energy, but there are many others. > Well how does heat then travels through a vacuum? It doesnt. Something else, say light, does travel through the vacuum. When it arrives it reacts locally, say with the dirt, and is converted into heat. Consider how your stove works. You apply electricity and out comes heat. Electricity is not hot, in fact it is rather ordered, and thus very cool. So electricity is not heat, nor is light, nor are lots of things that can be _turned_into_ heat. Maury id 1C6PXR-000ISg-1p with ESMTP id EAA24561 for ; === Subject: Re: Ive got a question... As all radiating energy from the spectrum do. id 1C60vt-0006WM-00 for ; for ; === Subject: Re: Ive got a question... >I wouldve posted this question in the chemistry newsgroup but the >people in there seem like idiots and I fear it would never get >answered. Heat is defined as the vibration of molecules right? Well how >does heat then travels through a vacuum? Heat, thus defined, doesnt. But energy can be converted from one form to another. Electromagnetic radiation and the kinetic energy of vibrate. Kind of like the cue ball hitting the pack in pool. -- R.G. Stumpy Marsh. id 1C5vv9-0000De-00 with ESMTP id <0I3U009EAPT77380@l-daemon> for with ESMTP id <0I3U00F18PT2UG@l-daemon> for === Subject: Re: Ive got a question... MIME-version: 1.0 >I wouldve posted this question in the chemistry newsgroup but the >people in there seem like idiots and I fear it would never get >answered. Heat is defined as the vibration of molecules right? Well how >does heat then travels through a vacuum? As I understand it, It doesnt. The Vibrating molecules produce radiation that travels across the vacuum. This radiation is then absorbed by molecules at the other end, causing them to vibrate. Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and Im not sure about the former. Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) === Subject: Re: Ive got a question... Why do you think so? Photons travel carrying energy but not heat. Best wishes, Alexander Pavlik by mailbox5.ucsd.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ALX1nN080873 === Subject: Re: Ive got a question... > I wouldve posted this question in the chemistry newsgroup but the > people in there seem like idiots and I fear it would never get > answered. Heat is defined as the vibration of molecules right? Well how > does heat then travels through a vacuum? infra-red electromagnetic waves - nate by mailbox10.ucsd.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ANwOjL024543 === Subject: Re: intelligent question >In space nobody can hear you scream. The acoustic waves really does not spread in space, because of their nature. These waves are the case of trasmitting of impulses from one layer of molecules of air (or atoms in atomic grid ) to the next one in direction of spreading of the wave. But when you perform the scream into electromagnetic waves, amplify and transmit them it will be possible to hear the scream in very huge distances in space... (envelope-from news@gnilink.net) === Subject: Another question I just finished reading Brian Greenes The Elegant Universe. The section in chapter 15 titled What are Space and Time, Really, and can we do without them? suggests in my mind a tantalizing question: to the graviton) which defines three dimensional space? Any comments on this would be appreciated. === Subject: China girl find pen pal
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 === Subject: New findings cast doubt on race isnt real claim For years, mainstream scientists have said there are no real racial differences among people. Race is purely a social construct -- in other words, its imaginary, some have argued. But two new studies raise doubts about a key calculation on which this argument rests.This calculation, often cited publicly by world-renowned geneticists, is that all humans are more than 99.9 percent genetically identical. http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/040908_racefrm === Subject: Re: New findings cast doubt on race isnt real claim It must depend on what you mean by Ôreal and Ôrace. For a start, there are black and white people. Are they the same race? Not in my book. Rob Graham === Subject: First-ever photo of planet outside our solar system? http://www.world-science.net/othernews/040910_planetfrm.htm === Subject: Bad Thinking log This is an invitation to the Atheist Historians Log on Bad Thinking. http://atheisthistorian.org/study/badthinking.htm Hope to see you there! === Subject: Re: MY SISTER NAKED IN SHOWER The man named in a disputed memo as exerting pressure to sugarcoat George W. Bushs military record left the Texas Air National Guard a year and a half before the memo supposedly was written, his service record shows. An order obtained by The Dallas Morning News shows that Col. Walter Buck Staudt was honorably discharged March 1, 1972. CBS News reported this week that a memo in which Staudt was described as interfering with officers negative evaluations of the future presidents service was dated Aug. 18, 1973. That added to mounting questions about the authenticity of documents that seem to suggest Bush sought special treatment as a pilot, failed to carry out a superiors order to undergo a physical exam and was suspended from ßying for failing to meet Air National Guard standards. Staudt, who lives in New Braunfels, Texas, did not return calls seeking comment. His discharge paper was among documents obtained by The Morning News from official sources during 1999 research into Bushs Guard record. A CBS staffer stood by the story, suggesting Staudt could have continued to exert inßuence over Guard officials. But a former high-ranking Guard official disputed that, saying retirement would have left Staudt powerless. Authenticity of the memo and three others included in Wednesdays 60 Minutes report came in for heavy criticism yesterday, prompting an unusual, on-air defense of the original work. Experts on typography said the memos appeared to have been computer-drafted on equipment not available at the time. Jerry Killian, who died in 1984, have said it wasnt his nature to keep detailed personal notes. In its news broadcast yesterday, CBS said the documents were supported by both unnamed witnesses and others, including document examiners. CBS anchor Dan Rather earlier told The Dallas Morning News that he had heard nothing to make him question the legitimacy of the memos. He attributed the backlash to partisan politics and competitive journalism. This story is true. The questions we raised about then-Lieutenant Bushs National Guard service are serious and legitimate, he said. Until and unless someone shows me definitive proof that they are not, I dont see any reason to carry on a conversation with the professional rumor mill. The Washington Post quoted Rather as saying CBS had talked to two people who worked with Killian - his superior, retired Maj. Gen. Bobby Hodges, and his administrative assistant Robert Strong - and both described the memos as consistent with what they knew of Killian. Hodges, who told CBS he was familiar with the documents, is an avid Bush supporter and it took a lot for him to speak the truth, the Post quoted Rather as saying. The Los Angeles Times, however, later quoted Hodges as saying that he believed the memos from Killian were not real. A CBS news executive confirmed that Hodges had changed his story. Rathers interview with The Morning News concluded before the newspaper determined the date of Staudts departure, but a CBS staffer with extensive knowledge of the story said later that the departure doesnt derail the retired, the staffer said, speaking on condition of anonymity. He was a very bullying type, and that could have continued. In the 60 Minutes report, Rather said of the memos contents: Killian says Col. Buck Staudt, the man in charge of the Texas Air National Guard, is putting on pressure to Ôsugarcoat an evaluation of Lt. Bush. Staudt was the person Bush initially contacted about Guard service, and he was the group commander at Ellington Air Force Base in Houston when Bush arrived there to ßy an F-102 jet. He transferred later to Austin, where he served as chief of staff for the Air National Guard. message today from group regarding Bushs (evaluation) and Staudt is pushing to sugarcoat it. It continues: Austin is not happy either. The CBS staffer said the memo appears to recognize that Staudt has retired, since it differentiates between his displeasure and that of Austin, where he served his final Guard stint. But another Texas Air National Guard official who served in that period said the memo appears to wrongly associate Staudt with his group command in Houston, and - based on that mistake - the memo distinguishes his views from that of the Austin Guard. Retired Col. Earl Lively, director of Air National Guard operations for the state headquarters during 1972 and 1973, said Staudt wasnt on the scene after retirement, and that CBS remote-bullying thesis makes no sense. He couldnt bully them. He wasnt in the Guard, Lively said. He couldnt affect their promotions. Once youre gone from the Guard, you dont have any authority. Bush has not commented publicly about the CBS report, and aides say his honorable discharge proves he fulfilled his obligations. begin 666 adv.gif === Subject: My ex. girl friend in web cam
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=== Subject: Re: Feynman in The pleasure of finding things out Received-SPF: none (mailbox1.ucsd.edu: domain of newsadm@attbi.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) http://www.amasci.com/feynman.html === Subject: Re: Basic QM Question > Lets say we write down the Schroedinger equation for hydrogen. We > then solve it and get among other things the pdf for the electrons > orbit. > My question is: why didnt I use the pdf of the electron as a form > factor in the coulomb interaction. It seems like we start with a point > the assumption. > Is the calculation an apporoximation or is there some fundamental > reason? (And can a reason be given without invoking QFT?) The form factor is _not_ a proability distribution but a factor in the effective Schroedinger or Dirac equation. Hence there is no contradiction. Arnold Neumaier === Subject: vacuum energy anomaly The energy of the vacuum is calculated at 10^120 J/m^3. The cutoff energy used to gain this figure is 10^19 J. What cutoff energy is needed to get an energy density which matches observation (about 10^-10 J / m^3)? === Subject: Re: Diffeomorphisms, LQG, and positive energy > Alas, it is well known in field theory (and string theory, they are > not different in this respect), that there are no gravitational > anomalies in 4D whatsoever, see e.g. Weinberg, Chapter 23. So if > such theories are quantized canonically, the diffeomorphism > generators cannot be unitarily and non-trivially represented on a > weakly-continuous Hilbert space! And if these theories dont admit > a canonical quantization, even in principle, something very weird > is going on. Weird indeed, even if I just understood the sketch of the argument, I have a question right from the beginning though. I understand lowes energy type simply means there is a lowest energy in the system? Quick googling doesnt lead to any more precise definitions, could you point me the right way if Im far off? In particular, they notice that one can do LQG quantization of the harmonic oscillator, and obtain an energy spectrum which is not bounded from below. Needless to say, this is bad news for LQG. In diffeomorphism invariant context we have no good definition of energy to begin with even in classical physics. Is this result obtained here then truely such a critical problem for LQG? Its not expected that there is a physical energy observable in QG to begin with. --- frank === Subject: Re: quantum theory of gravity > Why does there seem to be such a bias towards searching for Unification > through a quantum theory of gravity when this rules out half of the > solution space? Wouldnt a curvature theory of quantum mechanics be > just as illuminating? What is it that makes searching for a GTR basis > for of quantum mechanics any more insurmountable than finding a quantum > mechanical basis for gravity? Both are equally likely to exist and > finding either will point to the other. As others have mentioned there are approaches to modify QM to accomadate GR, and there are appraoches that modify both. Personally, Im more stimulated by approaches that do niether. Here is how it works: Nature is a subset of the Universe, it is the set of all phenomena that we consciouslly observe. The principles of relativity and uncertainty describe nature, they describe our conscious experience of the universe. A bold scientist who wishes to describe nature could ignore nature and instead focus on the larger, deeper Universe. The Universe is defined in such a way that does not include the principles of relativity or uncertainty as postulates but instead as consequences that are demonstrated by the by-product subset that represents nature. In other words, you could unify QM and GR by understanding that they are theories of nature, and then create a superset of nature. Oddly enough the first traces of this type of understanding were suggested by Leibniz centuries before both QM and GR. === Subject: Re: Where did the main (anti)commutation relation go? > In the path integral formulation of QFT for bosons, > the canonical commutations relations are not > even mentioned. (Ref: Peskin & Schroeder, ch9). The path integral formulation is a different formulation than the operator formulation. Because there are no real operators acting on the Hilbert space in this approach, there are also no commutators as you know them. The variables that you integrate over are thought of as purely classical, commuting (or anticommuting, for Grassmann numbers between each other) configurations. The uncertainty principle is reßected by the jitteriness of the typical contributions to the path integral, and the closest thing to the nonzero commutator can be derived from ordering ambiguities, resulting from the ultraviolet behavior of correlators. Your multiply repeated question (of course that the answer to your question is identical in QED, lambda.phi^4, as well as for fermions) can already be asked in quantum mechanics and has nothing special to do with either write the path integral purely in terms of configurations of x(t) - and there is no p in this description - or a path integral involving both x(t) and p(t), in which you can more transparently see the nonzero commutator. Only the first case - the configurations of x(t) separately - is naturally generalized in relativistic quantum field theory - and the question what is the commutator is not really well-posed in Feynmans approach. The goal of Feynmans approach is to calculate the amplitudes of the evolution operators between particular initial and final states. It is these amplitudes that are equal like those derived from the operator formalism - which does not mean that Feynmans approach must copy the machinery of operators. It does not. > But L_0 contains phi^dot which doesnt commute with phi (at least, > thats what happens in the canonical formalism). The path integrals treats phi(x^mu), and consequently also its derivatives, as classical numbers (integration variables), and they do commute with one another. You are not integrating over operators! The ordering issues are reßected in the ultraviolet behavior of correlators (=path integral with insertions). See e.g. Feynman-Hibbs book about the path integrals http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0070206503/ Best Lubos _____________________________________________________________ _______________ __ E-mail: lumo@matfyz.cz fax: +1-617/496-0110 Web: http://lumo.matfyz.cz/ eFax: +1-801/454-1858 work: +1-617/384-9488 home: +1-617/868-4487 (call) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ === Subject: Re: some questions about gravity > Two large spherical masses initially at rest, will accelerate towards > one another because of gravity.How do the gravitational waves produced > by the accelerating masses behave:do they interfere constructively in > the space between the masses? Yes, and also destructively, but only to a very negligible extent, as far as the infall itself and the generation and transmission of the waves is concerned. > And does the amplitude of the waves > increase as the masses get closer together? Yes. > As the masses get very > close they will become non-spherical.How would this affect the > gravitational waves between them? In a very complicated way. Unless the two masses are black holes or neutron stars, they collide or get torn up long before there is any significant effect from the gravitational waves. Even two black holes colliding head on only radiate about one or at most a few percent of their rest mass energy in gravitational waves. If two blackholes spiral into each other in a nearly circular orbit, the percent of energy radiated may get up in the neighborhood of 30%. Best, Jim Graber === Subject: Emergence of a 4D World from Causal Quantum Gravity What do you gravity experts think of: Emergence of a 4D World from Causal Quantum Gravity J. Ambj=F8rn, J. Jurkiewicz, and R. Loll http://prl.aps.org/ === Subject: Magnetic Monopole How much disruption or inconvenience would mainline physics theories suffer if a magnetic monopole were found. GTR would not be impacted. What of the quantum type theories? Bob Kolker real, and just a calculational device. This has confused me for two reasons indistinguishable, so that if you swap two electrons around you would never be able to tell. So if a virtual electron-antielectron pair is created, if we could somehow swap the virtual electron for a real electron how would we know ? However this indistinguishability idea seems (to me at least) to be at variance with the view that virtual 2. In Stephen Hawkings calculation of a black holes temperature, the near the event horizon, and one falls in to the black hole, and the other is emitted (at least this is how I have seen it explained). In exist) somehow become real ! forward a sufficiently convincing argument to the contrary. Ian Taylor === Subject: Re: nonlinearities in QFT > I was reading a few more papers on arxiv.org: > http://www.arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0003083 > http://www.arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0006079 > In the first paper Johan Hansson proposes that perhaps the > nonlinearities inherent in the nonabelian parts of the standard model > are responsible for the collapse of the wavefunction (which would > then, it seems, actually be a deterministic yet nonlinear and > therefore unpredictable occurance). ÔThe nonabelian vector gauge fields are governed by a set of coupled, second order, nonlinear PDEs on Minkowski spacetime. Clearly, this mistakes the classical nonlinear dynamics of nonabelian gauge fields for nonlinear quantum dynamics. But relativistic QFT does not give a well-defined dynamics at all; all it defines is an S-matrix. On the other hand, it is quite possible that a solution of the unresolved issues in relativistic QFT are related to the unresolved issues in quantum measurement theory. Arnold Neumaier === Subject: top 10 nano products http://www.justreminding.com/top10nanoproducts.html === Subject: Heating stage Anyone knows where I can find some detailed information about fabrication of heating stages for optical, epi, microscopes? - For oil objectives, - able to avoid large heat gradients, - maybe with a ßow cell? Nikodem === Subject: Advanced Nanotech Conf: Updated Program - Speakers 1st CONFERENCE ON ADVANCED NANOTECHNOLOGY: RESEARCH, APPLICATIONS, AND POLICY Crystal City Marriott Hotel Washington, DC area The 1st Conference on Advanced Nanotechnology: Research, Applications, and Policy is next month. Please join us as we examine nanotechnology from three different perspectives. Friday is designed for researchers and technologists, while Saturday and Sunday will make the applications and policy issues surrounding nanotechnology understandable to public interest representatives, investors, the general public, and those aiming at a career in the field. CONFERENCE HIGHLIGHTS Over 30-Speakers, October 22-24 (Friday-Sunday) Luncheon Address, October 22 (Friday) Keynote Speaker, October 22 (Friday) Foresight Feynman Prize Gala Banquet, October 22 (Friday) Poster Sessions, October 22-24 (Friday-Sunday) Student Network Event, October 23 (Saturday) Privacy Debate - October 23 (Saturday) Special Interest Groups, October 22-24 (Friday-Sunday) For full schedule click here: To review Abstracts follow this link: The Hotel group rate deadline is reservations now to receive the group rate. REGISTER NOW: Foresight Institute offers you several registration options to the 1st Conference on Advanced Nanotechnology. Each day of the conference is dedicated to in-depth exploration and discussion of a critical area driving molecular manufacturing: * Research status on Friday * Disruptive applications on Saturday * Policy issues on Sunday Attendees can customize the conference to meet their specific interests by using the one-day, two-day, or three-day option. To register, go to: SPONSORS - 1st ADVANCED NANOTECHNOLOGY CONFERENCE Draper Fisher Jurvetson http://www.dfj.com/ Howard, Rice, Nemerovski, Canady, Falk and Rabkin http://www.howardrice.com/ NanoTITAN http://nanotitan.com/index.htm SPONSOR - 1st SYMPOSIUM ON MOLECULAR MACHINES SYSTEMS (FRIDAY RESEARCH) Sun Microsystems, Inc. http://www.sun.com/ Foresight Institute PO Box 61058 Palo Alto, CA 94306 USA tel +1 650 917 1122 fax +1 650 917 1123 foresight@foresight.org www.foresight.org ****************************************** Foresight Institute is the leading think tank and public interest organization focused on nanotechnology. Formed in 1986 by K. Eric Drexler and Christine Peterson, Foresight dedicates itself to providing education, policy development, and networking to maximize benefits and minimize downsides of molecular manufacturing. === Subject: NanoAging.com NanoAging.com is up again, click www.nanoaging.com --Jon === Subject: Rice finds Ôon-off switch for buckyball toxicity Well, finally about that controversy: Researchers at Rice Universitys Center for Biological and Environmental Nanotechnology (CBEN) have demonstrated a simple way to reduce the toxicity of water-soluble buckyballs by a factor of more than ten million. The research will appear in an upcoming issue of the journal Nano Letters, published by the American Chemical Society, the worlds largest scientific society. One of the first toxicological studies of buckyballs, the research was published online by the journal on Sept. 11. Full story at http://www.physorg.com/news1308.html === Subject: Nanotechnology applied on aging www.nanoaging.com Nanotechnology applied on aging www.nanoaging.com Feel free to join this new nanotechnology project, --Jonathan === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology applied on aging www.nanoaging.com > Nanotechnology applied on aging www.nanoaging.com > Feel free to join this new nanotechnology project, > --Jonathan the nanotechnology is improving and the mans life span can be increased to 120. === Subject: Administrivia: Welcome to sci.nanotech! Welcome to sci.nanotech, a moderated group for discussions related to the field of nanotechnology. IMPORTANT! Newcomers: BEFORE posting any questions, you should FIRST read the material concerning this newsgroup at the web site: This site contains answers to Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) as well as the posting policies. Since this is a moderated newsgroup, any postings not conforming to these policies are subject to rejection. interesting forum for talking about nanotechnology! === Subject: C60 fullerene with O-atoms A file has just been posted which shows how twenty crystal-forming units (CFUs) of graphite, each consisting of three C-atoms, can act as the triangular panels of a regular octahedral assembly. The file also shows how an O-atom can join with any of the sixty C-atoms of the assembly. The file may be downloaded at the URL http://homepage.mac.com/whitby/Quasicrystals/FileSharing171. html === Subject: Re: C60 fullerene with O-atoms > the triangular panels of a regular octahedral assembly. The file also The line should read -- > the triangular panels of a regular> ICOSAHEDRAL My company wants to buy a high resolution SEM. Ive looked >brießy at Zeiss, Hitachi, and JEOL. >Ive been told that FE is the way to go but cold FE isnt worth >the trouble. >We will be looking at a wide variety of samples, especially >photoresist on silicon wafers. >Ive used a JEOL-35C and a Hitachi 3500H. >I would appreciate any suggestions on manufacturers or models. > If you are looking at diced wafers, that is one factor. If you > are looking at whole wafers, that changes things a bit. Are you > coating the specimens? What is high resolution for your work? > Cold FE will produce high rez images. The issue with them is > that the tips need ßashing once or twice a day. The other > factor is that they are not really stable for long imaging times > like EDS maps or EBSD. Thermal FE systems are very stable. > Plus, they can produce much higher probe current. > I use an FEI Sirion SFEG which will do good work looking at > photoresist on wafers or runners. It has a high magnetic field > final lens. The Zeiss/LEO Supra 55VP that I have uses an > electrostatic final lens and has no field at all at the pole > piece. 200KX images at 1KV, 3mm WD and realized rez of 1.7nm. > In VP mode, it does about 22nm. The Zeiss has all electronics > in the column (plinth) unit. FEI has electronics in the column, > user table and a separate expansion box. So space could be an > issue. > JEOL makes good SEMs but they seem to be more popular in the > East than here in the West coast area. So service is an issue I > think. FEI has good service all over as far as I know. Zeiss > has some problems. Mostly understaffed. > Gary Gaugler, Ph.D. > Microtechnics, Inc. > Granite Bay, CA 95746 > 916.791.8191 > gary@microtechnics dot com This will be used in a research setting so we will be looking at samples of all sizes. 4 wafers will be about the largest size. We must be able to accurately measure features that are 10 - 20 nm wide and 30 - 40 nm high. The features are made out of polymers and can not be coated. Other samples may be coated as necessary. For this we would ideally like 1 nm resolution but 1.5 - 2 nm seems like the best that we could get. Im assuming that if we can get the resolution we want for a polymer that other sample types would be easier. I think we want to stay away from cold FE for the reasons you mentioned. I heard a rumor that JEOL will discontinue their cold FE SEMs. Since we want high resolution and magnification at low accelerating voltage we will probably not get a VP machine. How old is your FEI machine? I know we would be able to get prompt service from JEOL or Hitachi. Ive never dealt with Zeiss. The Zeiss sounds like a very nice machine. I have been told that they have the best column design. No magnetic field could be useful to look at MEMS devices. Are you happy with this machine? Any annoying tendencies? Do you have a service contract? === Subject: Re: SEM question/advice, best FE SEM? I use the Hitachi 4800. Its excellent for top down and cross-section analysis. === Subject: Re: SEM question/advice, best FE SEM? > I use the Hitachi 4800. Its excellent for top down and > cross-section analysis. What kind of resolution do you get? On a good day the 3500H I used could do, maybe, 10 nm at 5KV. We would really like high mag at low accelerating voltages. We want to accurately measure 10 nm - 20 nm lines. Any particular problems with your SEM? === Subject: Re: SEM question/advice, best FE SEM? SEM is not my forte but (the famous but) the manufacturer might be less important than the service. I would ask who in your neighborhood has the best service, both price and techs? Kevin > My company wants to buy a high resolution SEM. Ive looked brießy > at Zeiss, Hitachi, and JEOL. > Ive been told that FE is the way to go but cold FE isnt worth the > trouble. > We will be looking at a wide variety of samples, especially > photoresist on silicon wafers. > Ive used a JEOL-35C and a Hitachi 3500H. > I would appreciate any suggestions on manufacturers or models. === Subject: Major breakthrough in nanotubes? Ultralong single-wall carbon nanotubes. http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nmat/journal/ vaop/ncurrent/ abs/nmat1216.html&dynoptions=doi1096137264 Extra-long carbon nanotubes set new record A longer strand of tiny tough stuff. The researchers have produced 4cm length single walled nanotubes. They claim the method can be scaled to produce arbitrarily long nanotubes. Bob Clark === Subject: CFV: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2) unmoderated group sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe Newsgroups line: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe Scanning probe microscopy. This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent. Proponent: Jim Logajan Proponent: Thom Borton Proponent: Gordon Vrdoljak Votetaker: Bill Aten RATIONALE: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum for the discussion of techniques and current research of scanning probe microscopy. The newsgroup sci.techniques.microscopy has become a de facto forum for discussion of optical microscopy, which has little in common with scanning probe microscopy. Currently, a private mailing list of one SPM vendor has a good amount of activity, with an active membership of a couple thousand users and an average of several daily postings. And the field continues to grow, both in users and vendors. The group will provide the SPM community a forum that is more publicly accessible and easier to read (e.g. direct support for threads) than the privately subscribed mailing list. The advent of feature rich web searchable archives by entities such as Google Groups is another advantage of using Usenet over that of a private list. Usenets inherently distributed nature makes multiple archives both possible and likely, while the same is not so easily done with a private mailing list. The current mailing list is run by the leading microscope manufacturer and has provided the scanning probe community a great public service, for which they must be commended. Postings on issues about systems from other companies or from the large community of researchers who built their own microscopes do come up occasionally, yet many more in the community have not thought of subscribing to the mailing list - either because they are unaware of it, believe it focuses only on that manufacturers equipment, or disagree with its list of banned topics (such as comparisons or reviews of competitive equipment or relevant job postings from commercial entities). An unmoderated newsgroup would attract a much wider audience to share information and would complement the existing mailing list. that such a group is likely to receive can be estimated by reviewing the Google Groups archive of the nearest relevant newsgroup, sci.techniques.microscopy newsgroup: even irritation is a subjective issue, but relative to regular e-mail, a ~2% rate may be considered quite low. CHARTER: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe This group is an open forum for the discussion of techniques, theory, instrumentation, and research in the use of scanning probe microscopes. Such technologies include any form of microscopy that involves the scanning of a probe close to a surface. This includes, but is not limited to: atomic force microscopy (AFM), scanning tunneling microscopy (STM), magnetic force microscopy (MFM), chemical force microscopy (CFM), lateral force microscopy (LFM), and near field scanning optical microscopy (NSOM or SNOM). Postings advertising job openings directly from the hiring firms (i.e. not recruiters) that require expertise in SPM techniques, theory, instrumentation, and research would also be appropriate, provided they are not repeated. Binaries and postings entirely unrelated to any of the above would not be appropriate and posters are asked to post them to more appropriate groups. END CHARTER. 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This CFV has been posted to the following newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups news.groups sci.nanotech sci.physics sci.techniques.microscopy Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these newsgroups: sci.engr.micromachining sci.materials sci.physics.research and to the following mailing list: Mailing list name: DI SPM List Submission address: spm@di.com Request address: http://spm.di.com/listinfo.html === Subject: Re:[Sci.nanotech] SEM question/advice, best FE SEM? We have had a lot of problems with imaging isolated metal features on insulating samples (glass). Image can drift while viewing or measuring linewidth. The energy is already such that charging is minimized but this is different for the two different materials, so there can still be net charging of the field. I am not sure if any manufacturer has a magic bullet to address this. I did hear about Environmental Secondary Electron Microscopes (ESEMs) http://www.itg.uiuc.edu/ms/equipment/microscopes/esem/ but I am not sure if they offer the precision or resolution you or I need. FEI is cited as a manufacturer at the given link. On another thread (sci.materials), I received several recommendations to coat with a discharging layer, but Id rather make sure this can be removed without damaging the sample in any way. Fred -----Original Message----- [mailto:sci.nanotech-bounces@nano-tek.org] On Behalf Of Dev Null === Subject: [Sci.nanotech] SEM question/advice, best FE SEM? My company wants to buy a high resolution SEM. Ive looked brießy at Zeiss, Hitachi, and JEOL. Ive been told that FE is the way to go but cold FE isnt worth the trouble. We will be looking at a wide variety of samples, especially photoresist on silicon wafers. Ive used a JEOL-35C and a Hitachi 3500H. I would appreciate any suggestions on manufacturers or models. _______________________________________________ sci.nanotech mailing list sci.nanotech@nano-tek.org http://venusia.golgothe.net/mailman/listinfo/sci.nanotech === Subject: Re: Landscape averages - paper of the day - Kumar+Wells Its a nice paper as it makes a definite claim: the distribution of the rank N of the gauge group in string compactifications goes as exp -N/N_{avg} for some relatively small N_{avg}. While I think the argument Kumar and Wells give is sensible and interesting, it depends on unjustified assumptions, which makes the claim rather preliminary (as admittedly are all claims in this area at this point). Of course one of these is the idea that the number of D3 branes dominates the rank of the gauge group or is distributed the same way, as there are many other types of D-branes with different matter content etc. However the main point left out is that theories with gauge sectors tend to have a larger multiplicity of vacua, because their matter must be stabilized and this will lead to many vacua. In the case of D3s this at least includes their position moduli on the CY, which by arguments given in my 0303194, for N D3s would be expected to have of order chi(Sym_N M), the Euler character of the N-fold symmetric product of the CY M. For most CYs this is a pretty large factor which dominates at low N and pushes the peak of the distribution up, though the large N tail would still be exponential. I am somewhat suspicious of the large N behavior being exponential, on empirical grounds: there are known to be F theory compactifications to four dimensions with N=1 supersymmetry with gauge group ranks of order 100000 (Candelas et al), which is pretty unlikely to come out of the distribution exp -N/N_{avg} with small N_{avg}. I suspect the number of vacua is more likely to fall off as a power of N, but do not yet have a good argument for this. Finally, I would like to say that the idea of a landscape average is NOT mine and does not describe my work. First, as a minor point, I dont usually use the term landscape -- but this is just my own taste, landscape is a good term which just emphasizes other aspects of the problem, such as the structure of the potential and barriers between vacua, than the ones I have been working on. More importantly, as explained in 0303194, my recent 0409207, etc., I think it is meaningless to average over different vacua, because we only observe one vacuum. Rather, the goal of my own work, and what I advocate doing, is to characterize the distribution of vacua well enough to estimate the number N_SM of different vacua which satisfy the many existing observational constraints (standard model, cosmological, etc.) as well as possible future constraints (this might lead to predictions as discussed in 0409207). Based on this information, we can decide whether we should continue the search for the right vacuum directly (appropriate if N_SM <= a few), look for additional principles to cut down the number (if N_SM is large), or give up and start making anthropic arguments or whatever (if N_SM is ridiculously large). These works describe many other ways to use this information, for example to know which properties are common in string/M theory (so less interesting) or rare (so more interesting and more selective). So for me, a quantity like the average rank of the gauge group, while well defined, is not directly physically meaningful, and not to be considered as a preferred value (just as the actual height of any single human is unlikely to be equal to the average height of a human). It is useful, but just as a way of characterizing the distribution (as in the exp -N/N_{avg} above). === Subject: Stringy naturalness provoking recent review http://www.arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0409207 Well, Peter Woit made some comments about the situation on his blog http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/blog/ on September 20th - his summary is that you say that string theory predicts that we can never see any physics related it. It would be too difficult for me to pretend that I disagree with these Woits remarks. Do I understand well that all these predictions of yours about the nonexistence of low energy SUSY and large dimensions critically rely on your definition of stringy naturalness? You describe your notion of stringy naturalness very explicitly: (**) An effective field theory (or specific coupling or observable) T1 is more natural in string theory than T2, if the number of phenomenologically acceptable vacua leading to T1 is larger than the number leading to T2. I could not disagree more. This very definition of naturalness already seems to contain - assume, in fact - Woits result that the most typical prediction of this approach to string theory will be that there are no predictions. According to (**), the more ambiguous and unpredictive something is, the better. Also, I dont think that this counting the more vacua, the more natural generalizes the notion of naturalness from physics before string theory in any natural way. I would say that naturalness means - and always meant - that the parameters that naturally appear in the description of physics should be of order one. There are infinitely many more numbers (even among integers!) :-) that are *not* of order one (for example 1235235236236236), but this makes them *less* natural, not more, does not it? If the notion of stringy naturalness were defined using the number of vacua, I would probably choose a definition which seems to be nearly the opposite of (**), namely (##) An effective field theory or physical mechanism - or a value of a coupling or another parameter - is natural from the stringy viewpoint if it can be expected to be reproduced in stringy backgrounds whose adjustable discrete parameters are of order one, i.e. backgrounds that are simple. A more rigorous definition what is simple and what exactly should be of order one requires some deeper knowledge of physics than what we have, but the rough philosophy difference seems clear, I think. Note that this definition more or less implies that the number of the discrete natural vacua with (approximately) the desired properties will also be of order one, while your natural vacua are by definition members of huge families (unnatural families, in my language). I think that it is (##), not (**), that naturally generalizes the previous notions of naturalness. Naturalness means that the properly defined parameters are of order one - not too small and not too large. The only open question is what it means a properly defined/parameterized parameter i.e. what is the measure, and deeper mechanisms such as those in string theory are here to answer the question. Because of experimental observations, we simply know that some ratios in Nature - such as m_{planck} / m_{electron} - are extremely large. These hierarchies of many types are simply a property of Nature and we cant do anything about them - except for trying to explain them (first qualitatively, and then perhaps quantitatively). The first obvious comment is that these large values seem *unnatural*. However, many such large ratios are only unnatural until we learn and understand the physical effects that are underlying them. For example, it is not so shocking that m_{planck} / m_{QCD} is so large - once we realize that g_{strong} at the scale m_{planck} is a mildly small number of order one, and because g_{strong} only runs logarithmically, it is guaranteed to reach one at a much smaller energy scale. Similarly, the large total mass of visible non-relativistic matter (expressed in Planck units) in the Universe today (it has not changed too much for billions of years, I think) can be explained by a reasonable number of e-foldings of inßation (which is able to produce mass from nothing). This is what I personally call a natural explanation of the large ratio m_{planck} / m_{QCD}, or a natural explanation of the large mass of the Universe - and it is the kind of insights that we should be trying to find. The role of string theory is to provide us with more reliable tools and mechanisms that can do this job. Do you think that you would agree with this statement? On the other hand, an explanation based on choosing some things very small or very large is unnatural, I think. An explanation based on a multiverse - or the conglomerate of all vacua in string theory that we can imagine - where all parameters can be very small or very large simply because there is a large number of such choices - it is a very unnatural (and unsatisfying) explanation. Moreover, we clearly know examples in which we must just find a scientific explanation why something is small - the QCD theta-angle (strong CP problem) could probably be of order one without spoiling life. Nevertheless, it is very tiny for no good known (so far) reason, as we were emphasized yesterday on a pheno talk by John Donoghue here. I would only claim that someone has understood why theta is small in string theory if she had a simple realistic model with a calculation - at least approximate one - that implies a small value of theta - or a class of models where the property holds universally. Finding 10^200 convoluted ßux vacua is just not enough. This debate may be philosophical today, but I believe that it will become very scientific sometime in the future when people actually try to understand some cosmological (or other) vacuum selection mechanisms because whatever the mechanism will be, it will be favoring the choices where the natural parameters are of order one. This means, I believe, that such a cosmological mechanism will produce vacua of the type (##) rather than the generic convoluted vacua of the type (**). A toy model: lets imagine that the number of Calabi-Yau topologies is infinite, and chi goes to infinity, too. I think it is obvious that a cosmological creation will tend to produce Calabi-Yaus with reasonable chis of order one, instead of some virtually infinite numbers - simply because it is also unnatural to create many handles of a Calabi-Yau. I think that the reason why its unnatural is the same like the reason why the evolution theory is a more natural explanation than the Creator who created each species separately ad hoc (the analogy is simply 1 species = 1 handle). Moreover, as the example above already indicates, it is conceivable that if one looks carefully enough, she can discover a discretely infinite total number of vacua in string theory, in which case the criterion (**) breaks completely. On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with string theory if it predicts a discrete infinite number of vacuum states (the harmonic oscillator has an infinite number of states, too). Any reasonable physical mechanism that actually assigns weights or probabilities to the vacua will not care whether the number of vacua is 10^300 or discretely infinite, which means that according to everything I can imagine, any reasoning that leads to very different results for these two choices (10^300 vs. infinity) must be incorrect - which also means that (**) is incorrect. Dont you think that it should be legitimate to approximate 10^{300} by infinity? We can certainly do it for a harmonic oscillator without getting too bad answers. The number of vacua may be large (or discretely infinite), but they always have some organization, hierarchy, and therefore include some simple vacua (analogy of the ground state of the harmonic oscillator and a few excited states) where the discrete parameters are of order one - whatever it exactly means - and the rest of the tower which are unnatural states. What we should be interested in, I think, are mechanisms that illuminate hidden physics behind various numbers, and allows us to reparameterize these (large or small) numbers as functions of natural numbers of order one. Of course, this includes various mechanisms to generate numbers in the exponential form. Inßation and the RG running of g_{strong} are examples. As John Donoghue has emphasized (also in his yesterdays talk at Harvard), the scale-invariant form of fermion masses (i.e. the fact that they are mostly uniform on the logarithmic scale) has a nice explanation in intersecting brane models because the Yukawa couplings come from disks - and contain the exp(-A.tension) suppression. Assuming a uniform distribution of the areas A (of the triangles - disks - stretched between the three intersection points), we naturally obtain the qualitatively desired spectrum of the fermion masses. Even if the number of stable (and so on) stringy vacua describing these models with intersecting branes turns out to be of order one, they will still be natural, wont they? You can find some 10^200 of other vacua based on complicated structures of large ßuxes, among 10^300 of ßux vacua in general, and it seems that according to your (**) rule, they will be 10^200 times more interesting for you than the single intersecting braneworld. Well, for me they will be much less interesting - even though, of course, they have a higher probability that they happen to describe the observations accurately enough. If one imagines that the single vacuum with intersecting branes and one of those 10^200 ßux vacua will happen to agree with the experiments with the desired accuracy, no doubt, I will prefer the single intersecting braneworld - roughly with 10^{200} times bigger happiness than the ßux vacuum. Its simply because this theory has a much smaller input and is more natural. There are other reasons why I think that (**) is obviously incorrect. Even if we imagine that the number of vacua is finite and exponentially large, there is a subtlety. It is almost guaranteed that the exponents of different types of vacua will be very different. There can be 10^{300} type IIB ßux vacua, but only 10^{280} vacua of M-theory on G2 manifolds with ßuxes. Does it mean that the IIB vacua are 10^{20} times more reasonable choice predicted by string theory? I hope not. It sounds completely irrational to me. Moreover, if the philosophy (**) were taken seriously, to more general theories, the most natural theories according to this criterion would be non-renormalizable theories because the number of the corresponding vacua is infinity^infinity - one can choose infinitely many numbers to be anything. These things are just the opposite of what I imagine to be natural. Lubos _____________________________________________________________ _______________ __ E-mail: lumo@matfyz.cz fax: +1-617/496-0110 Web: http://lumo.matfyz.cz/ eFax: +1-801/454-1858 work: +1-617/384-9488 home: +1-617/868-4487 (call) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ === Subject: Re: Stringy naturalness has given real thought to the subject, as is evident in your paper 0007206. Your message deserves a longer reply than I have time for right now, but let me encourage anyone reading this to look at 0409207 and my other papers, especially the first two and last sections of 0303194, for a real explanation of my point of view. But here is a brief response to your comments. First, it is very easy to get hung up in this context on definitions, philosophical discussions of what it means to explain something, etc. The best way to avoid this is to try to work towards some objective claim. I have been trying to see if string theory can be falsified, in the sense that we could show that some phenomenon which might be observed could NOT be reproduced from string theory. Perhaps the best candidate for this I know of is time variation of the fine structure constant, along lines argued in my hep-ph/0112059 with Banks and Dine. But it is interesting to consider other phenomena, even the standard predictions of low energy supersymmetry, in this light. There are various motivations for the definition (**) of stringy naturalness, as I explain in 0409207 and elsewhere. The main reason for the name is just that it substitutes for and in some cases gives different predictions from the traditional definitions of naturalness. Another, as I discuss further below, is that it is natural information about the set of possibilities which can come out of string theory, which is an important input into almost any candidate vacuum selection principle. But perhaps the strongest motivation for the definition (**), as I explain in 0409207 and elsewhere, is that under certain assumptions -- mostly, that the number of vacua that we believe are candidates is in this 10^100-10^300 range, (**) could lead to believable arguments that certain possible physics could NOT be obtained from string/M theory, because there are just not enough vacua of that type to tune the cosmological constant and get the other parameters right. I believe that to falsify string theory, one really needs to argue that there are NO consistent vacua (coming out of consistent cosmologies) in the class which reproduces the (current or hypothetical future) observations. It does not matter whether the vacua which do it are complicated or whether we dislike them for some other subjective reason. Such falsifiability was expected in previous discussions in which people assumed the existence of millions or billions of vacua. A major point of my work is that even numbers which seem large, like 10^300, are not necessarily too large from this point of view. The reason 10^300 should not be approximated by infinity, while perhaps 10^1000 could be, is just the amount of data at hand and the structure of the problem. As discussed in 0303194, we measure many parameters of the SM to some precision, and the cosmological constant to fantastic accuracy, and it is the problem of matching this data which leads to numbers like 10^240. At present it is not at all clear what the actual number and distribution of vacua will turn out to be. Indeed the simplest conjecture (which I raised in 2001 at JHS60) is that the number is infinite -- why not. I worked for over a year around 2002 looking for evidence for infinite series of vacua which might roughly match observations (infinite series of CYs, of vector bundles, of brane configurations etc.) and my tentative conclusion is that there are not; there are many infinite series (arbitrary ßux in AdS_5 times S^5 being the simplest illustration) which however do not match observation because they have towers of light states coming down. An infinite series of CY_3s might not have this property, but the finitude of CY_3s is a famous conjecture at this point -- this is not to say we know it is true, just that many people have thought about it and it is consistent with everything else we know. Anyways, more people should be working on trying to find infinite series of potentially realistic vacua. Alternatively, it might turn out in the end that the number is more like 10^1000. Suppose we prove to our own satisfaction that there are 10^1000 relevant vacua, which are uniformly enough distributed that string theory can reproduce a huge variety of extensions of the Standard Model. Now I would consider this a huge victory for string theorists, in that we answered a primary question, even if from some point of view the answer was negative. We would have a theory which could fit the data, and might lead to interesting new predictions in yet unrealized situations. But one could also go on, and try to propose a principle to narrow down the class of vacua, call it principle X, and regain predictivity. One could go on to propose arguments justifying it, say that this class of vacua comes out of the preferred initial conditions. But this is not absolutely necessary -- if a principle cuts down the numbers of vacua sufficiently, one could assume it and try to make predictions along the lines I am discussing, and the principle might justify itself by its predictions. What is necessary is that the principle be precise and pick out a precise class of vacua. If you think about this, since the principle will pick a subclass out of the preexisting set of possible vacua, using it will still require the distribution information which we are studying now. Anyways, I think it is interesting to formulate such candidate vacuum selection principles. Now, predictions under assumptions such as principle X, cannot literally falsify the theory, they can only falsify the combination of theory + assumptions. Suppose no vacuum satisfying X reproduces the observations, while some other vacuum Y not satisfying X, say it requires special tuning of the initial conditions, has parameters which are not of order 1, etc., actually does. Will you go on to tell me that string theory is wrong, that vacuum Y is no good? You better have a pretty convincing principle, more so than your (##) I think. I think it would be valuable for you to propose any precise version of your (##). Whether (##) might also deserve to be called naturalness I think depends on what assumptions it is believed to follow from (note that there are many variations on the traditional definition of naturalness as well, with different names). But it is not worth discussing without a precise definition. Is compactification on a CY with hundreds of cycles simpler or more complicated than one with a few cycles? Why? As for ßuxes, the explicit discrete parameters depend on a choice of basis, ambiguous up to Sp(b_3,Z) transformations. How do I decide if they are order one? And so on... Please think about this as while I agree with some of your comments, others seem basically wrong to me. For example, the comment early on that According to (**), the more ambiguous and unpredictive something is, the better. This is totally backwards as the most interesting case is of course when the distribution of some observable is highly peaked. So, if it were to turn out that the distribution of the rank N of the gauge group among vacua was highly peaked at 4, that would be quite interesting, and many would consider it a candidate explanation for the observed rank of the Standard Model gauge group. According to (**), the property N=4 would be highly natural. What does (##) say about it? Best, Mike === Subject: Re: Helling & Policastro on GNS quantization of string > Then I would like to remark that a subtle but maybe crucial issue should not > be overlooked: The diffeomorphisms discussed by Thiemann and by > Helling&Policastro are not the spatial diffeomorphisms which > reparameterize the spatial slices of the string. As such they cannot be > completely compared to the spatial diffeo constraints as they appear in the > ADM constraints of (2 and higher dimensional) gravity. Correct. Although we start with a canonical 1+1 split, we end up discussing the left and right chiral halfs j^pm separately. So the Virasoro that we discuss is the chiral symmetry algebra (the total conformal symmetry being Vir_left + Vir_right). > Finally I have a technical question to Robert and Giuseppe Policastro > concerning the discussion on pp10-11 of their paper. Maybe I am mixed up, > but it seems to me that there at some point commuting and anti-commuting > properties need to be exchanged. Right again. In the text, exchange commuting and anti-commuting once and everything should be fine. All formulas as far as I can see are correct. Robert -- . oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo.oO o.oOo.oOo.oOo .oO Robert C. Helling Department of Applied Mathematics and Theoretical Physics University of Cambridge print Just another Phone: +44/1223/766870 stupid .sign; http://www.aei-potsdam.mpg.de/~helling === Subject: Re: Helling & Policastro on GNS quantization of string Robert C. Helling schrieb im > Then I would like to remark that a subtle but maybe crucial issue should not > be overlooked: The diffeomorphisms discussed by Thiemann and by > Helling&Policastro are not the spatial diffeomorphisms which > reparameterize the spatial slices of the string. As such they cannot be > completely compared to the spatial diffeo constraints as they appear in the > ADM constraints of (2 and higher dimensional) gravity. > Correct. Although we start with a canonical 1+1 split, we end up > discussing the left and right chiral halfs j^pm separately. So the > Virasoro that we discuss is the chiral symmetry algebra (the total > conformal symmetry being Vir_left + Vir_right). Yes. Nothing wrong with that. I just pointed it out because the whole discussion is latently about how to quantize gravity and I believe it is important to note when we are talking about spatial diffeomorphisms and when about something that just looks like these. > Finally I have a technical question to Robert and Giuseppe Policastro > concerning the discussion on pp10-11 of their paper. Maybe I am mixed up, > but it seems to me that there at some point commuting and anti-commuting > properties need to be exchanged. > Right again. In the text, exchange commuting and anti-commuting once > and everything should be fine. All formulas as far as I can see are correct. Yes, sorry, I did not mean to imply that anything is wrong with your computations. I was just checking if I correctly followed your derivations. === Subject: Re: Quantization without quantization > Quantization without quantization - prejudices and reality Let me first state that I agree fully with almost all that you say. Not unexpectedly, the only one point which I disagree upon is the discussion on gauge anomalies, and even there I only disagree partially. What you say on this issue makes sense and is the standard lore, but it needs elaboration. > Reality IVa: Chiral gauge theories and similar theories in 2k dimensions > typically lead to gauge anomalies. Gauge anomalies imply that the theory > is no longer consistent because the unphysical (and negative-norm) > polarizations of the gauge bosons (or graviton) no longer decouple. The > structure of anomalies can be calculated if one tries to regularize > certain UV divergences, but the result is purely reßected by the low > energy (IR) spectrum of the theory. There is no way to avoid the > Anomalies in global symmetries do not imply an inconsistency, but they > drastically inßuence the physics of a given theory. > Central charge (or Weyl anomaly) is a specific example of an anomalous > term that can be calculated in many ways, and there is no consistent way > to avoid its nonzero value. We should first define what we mean by a gauge theory. Since not all quantum theories have well-defined classical counterparts, we need a definition which is intrinsically quantum. I propose to define a gauge symmetry as a symmetry with a well-defined, nilpotent BRST operator. In that case the symmetry is a redundancy of the description, because we can define the physical Hilbert space as the space of BRST cohomology classes. With this definition, it is tautologically true that no consistent gauge anomalies exist. Not because an anomaly would necessarily be inconsistent, but because it would ruin nilpotency, making the symmetry into a global symmetry (global is a terribly confusing word in this context, btw. I would prefer the word non-gauge). There is nothing intrinsically wrong with anomalous global symmetries whose non-anomalous part is isomorphic to a gauge symmetry. The canonical example is the minimal models in CFT with central charge 1/2 <= c <= 1. They are physically consistent in the strong sense that they are realized (and measured!) in experimentally accessible systems. And still the anomaly-free part of the symmetry algebra is isomorphic to the Weyl gauge symmetry of string theory. If we could take the classical limit of such a system, it would seem to have a gauge symmetry. Namely, the anomaly vanishes in the classical limit, and we can write down a classical BRST operator which is nilpotent, and the symmetry is gauge on the classical level. There is no classical way to distinguish between such a fake gauge symmetry and a genuine gauge symmetry which extends to the quantum level. The quantum world is what it is, and classical intuition can often go wrong. Unfortunately, we cannot check this argument for the minimal models, because they dont seem to have a good classical limit. Some aspects can be captured by Landau-Ginzburg models, but others are totally opaque in the LG picture, like the supersymmetry of the c = 7/10 model. Thus some anomalous gauge symmetries (= anomalous global symmetries whose non-anomalous part is isomorphic to a gauge symmetry) may be consistent, but all are not. It must be realized that gauge symmetries have two qualitatively different types of anomalies: 1. Anomalies seen in field theory, related to the existence of chiral fermions. This class include the ABJ anomalies in the standard model and the Green-Schwartz mechanism. There are two good reasons to expect that such anomalies are inconsistent: Nature avoids them in the standard model, and the corresponding algebra does not seem to have any good representations. 2. Anomalies like the Virasoro and affine Kac-Moody algebra, and their higher-dimensional analogues. These algebras have interesting unitary representations, but cannot be seen in field theory because they involve the observers trajectory. There is no reason to expect such anomalies to be inconsistent, especially since they do arise in condensed matter models like the 2D Ising model. The different extensions can be illustrated for the current algebra on the 3D torus. Use a Fourier basis with momenta m = (m_i) in Z^3, structure constants f^abc, second Casimir delta^ab and third Casimir d^abc. The Mickelsson-Faddeev algebra describes the ABJ anomaly: [J^a(m), J^b(n)] = f^abc J^c(m+n) + d^abc epsilon^ijk m_i n_j A^c_k(m+n), [J^a(m), A^b_k(n)] = f^abc A^c_k(m+n) + delta^ab m_k delta(m+n), [A^a_i(m), A^b_j(n)] = 0. A^a_i(m) are the Fourier components of the gauge connection. The central extension (which commutes with gauge transformations but not with diffeomorphisms): [J^a(m), J^b(n)] = f^abc J^c(m+n) + delta^ab m_i S^i(m+n), [J^a(m), S^i(n)] = [S^i(m), S^j(n)] = 0, m_i S^i(m) = 0. These two extensions of the current algebra in 3D have thus very different properties, and to conclude that inconsistincy of the former implies inconsistency of the latter is simply wrong. Finally, we must define exactly what we mean by consistency. At the most basic level, a quantum theory is defined by a Hilbert space and a unitary time evolution. If the theory has some symmetries, they must be realized as unitary operators acting on this Hilbert space as well. If time translation is included among the symmetries, which is the case for the Poincare algebra (and more subtly for diffeomorphisms), requiring a unitary representation of the symmetry algebra seems to be enough for consistency. covariant quantum theories (GCQT) and unitary representations of the diffeomorphism group on a conventional Hilbert space. Namely, if we have a GCQT, its Hilbert space carries a unitary rep of the diffeo group. And if we have a unitary rep of the diffeo group, the Hilbert space on which it acts can be interpreted as the Hilbert space of some GCQT. Since all unitary quantum irreps of the diffeo group are anomalous, apart from the trivial one, all interesting GCQTs carry anomalous reps of the diffeo group. So rather than being inconsistent, the second type of gauge anomaly is in fact a necessary condition for non-trivial consistency. === Subject: Re: Quantization without quantization > covariant quantum theories (GCQT) and unitary representations of the > diffeomorphism group on a conventional Hilbert space. Namely, if we > have a GCQT, its Hilbert space carries a unitary rep of the diffeo > group. And if we have a unitary rep of the diffeo group, the Hilbert > space on which it acts can be interpreted as the Hilbert space of > some GCQT. Since all unitary quantum irreps of the diffeo group are > anomalous, apart from the trivial one, all interesting GCQTs carry > anomalous reps of the diffeo group. So rather than being > inconsistent, the second type of gauge anomaly is in fact a > necessary condition for non-trivial consistency. Presumably the unitary reps in an interesting GCQT will be constrained === Subject: Re: Quantization without quantization > Presumably the unitary reps in an interesting GCQT will be constrained Perhaps. Unfortunately, I dont understand how one can write down a well-defined BRST operator. There are three qualitatively different cases: 1. Finite-dimensional algebras. The BRST operator is always well- defined and nilpotent. 2. Infinite-dimensional algebras living over a 1D manifold (growth 1), like Virasoro and affine Kac-Moody. The BRST operator is always well-defined, but nilpotent only in special cases, like c = 26. 3. Infinite-dimensional algebras of growth >= 2, like the higher- dimensional analogues of Virasoro and affine algebras. Here the BRST operators seems to be completely ill defined. The problem is that normal ordering would introduce an unrestricted sum over transverse modes. If you do things in a Fourier basis on a 2D torus, say, the modes are labeled by momenta m = (m_1, m_2) in Z^2. We could define m > n if m_1 > n_1. Normal ordering gives rise to a sum over all n, 0 < n < m, as is familiar from 1D. Hence we must sum over all n such that 0 < n_1 < m_1, and -infinity < n_2 < infinity. The second sum diverges. This is the problem that prevented people from generalizing the Virasoro algebra to higher dimensions for 25 years. It can be overcome by first expanding all fields in a Taylor series around a marked, 1D curve, and truncating after some finite order. This gives us a non-linear realization of the diffeomorphism algebra on finitely many functions of a single variable, which is exactly where normal ordering works - there are no transverse modes. Unfortunately, I see no way to extend this trick to the BRST operator, which led me to assert that one must live with the anomaly. Be that as it is. My main point, however, is that in order to control the anomaly, you must first be able to construct it. LQG cannot do that even in 2D, and therefore the LQG string is probably wrong. But neither LQG nor string theory (or field theory for that matter) can do that in 4D. The reason is that the anomaly depends on the marked curve that we Taylor expanded around. In fact, it seems like people know how to canonically quantize exactly those theories where the quantum representation theory of the constraint algebra is understood, typically conformal theories algebras of diffeomorphisms and gauge transformations in 4D appear to be very relevant. === Subject: String torsion constraints Uma Mahanta and collaborators had made some estimates on bounds on propagating torsion using muon (g-2) experiments (http://www.g-2.bnl.gov/index.shtml) P. Das & U. Mahanta: Torsion constraints from the recent precision measurement of the muon anomaly hep-ph/0211137 as well as using LEP data (Mahanta&Raychudhuri, hep-ph/0307350). In the introduction of hep-ph/0211137 it says that the authors want to consider torsion as would follow from a non-vanishing H=dB field strength of the strings Kalb-Ramond field. The action of that coupled to fermions should schematically read like S = int (dB)^2 + bar psi D psi where D is the Dirac operator with torsion ~H, i.e. D = y^m d_m + H_lmn y^lmn up to inessential prefactors (I write y for the Clifford generators). But Mahanta et al. instead use an action of the schematic form (for totally antisymmetric torsion) S = int H^2 + (d*H)^2 + fermion coupling . Does anyone know what the justification of this action is? I have the impression that they are really thinking of the standard action of a massive 3 form, regarding the torsion 3-form as a propagating field instead of as the field strength of a 2-form B. === Subject: Re: String torsion constraints Hi Urs, first of all - the word justification is probably not the best word as long as you work with string theory. In string theory you can calculate all these things - at least the equations of motion, and up to a field redefinition. See e.g. page 114 of Joes book volume 1, and pages 87, 91 of Joes book volume 2 for the actions in the maximal spacetime dimensions in bosonic string and superstring theories, respectively. Second, these papers look confusing to me because they work with the B-field as torsion in four dimensions. The real physics of a 2-form potential in 4 dimensions is that you can take its 3-form field strength, Hodge-dualize it, and obtain a one-form field strength of a dual 0-form potential. Therefore, physics of the B-field in 4 dimensions is equivalent to physics of a scalar. This scalar is called the axion - and there are many types of axions that can appear in various realistic models. (Axions have been proposed as dark matter candidates, and especially as solutions of the strong CP problem - why is the CP-violating theta-angle in QCD so small even though it does not have to be - Peccei-Quinn mechanism.) > But Mahanta et al. instead use an action of the schematic form (for totally > antisymmetric torsion) > S = int H^2 + (d*H)^2 + fermion coupling . Ive seen this action neither in the paper you mentioned nor anywhere else. d*H is roughly *Box(B). This term has a different dimension, and would have to include a prefactor of order alpha - relatively to the main kinetic term (H^2). I think its plausible that it appears as an alpha-correction, but it is irrelevant at low energies. Why do you care about it? Best Lubos _____________________________________________________________ _______________ __ E-mail: lumo@matfyz.cz fax: +1-617/496-0110 Web: http://lumo.matfyz.cz/ eFax: +1-801/454-1858 work: +1-617/384-9488 home: +1-617/868-4487 (call) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ === Subject: Re: String torsion constraints Lubos Motl schrieb im Newsbeitrag > first of all - the word justification is probably not the best word as > long as you work with string theory. In string theory you can calculate > all these things - at least the equations of motion, and up to a field > redefinition. See e.g. page 114 of Joes book volume 1, and pages 87, 91 > of Joes book volume 2 for the actions in the maximal spacetime > dimensions in bosonic string and superstring theories, respectively. Yup. And because these authors use something different I was wondering what they thought should be the justification for doing so. > Second, these papers look confusing to me because they work with the > B-field as torsion in four dimensions. The real physics of a 2-form > potential in 4 dimensions is that you can take its 3-form field strength, > Hodge-dualize it, and obtain a one-form field strength of a dual 0-form > potential. Therefore, physics of the B-field in 4 dimensions is equivalent > to physics of a scalar. This scalar is called the axion - and there are > many types of axions that can appear in various realistic models. I know that you dualize to get the axion. But thats just rewriting. It does not change the fact that the fermions see a torsion, whether you write that as d B or as * d chi > S = int H^2 + (d*H)^2 + fermion coupling . > Ive seen this action neither in the paper you mentioned nor anywhere > else. Their S^mu is *H and their S^mu nu is d * H. > Why do you care about it? Because I am wondering about phenomenological consequences of torsion effects on fermions. I am not the only one. There are a couple of paper on that, but none of them that I have seen so far seem to correctly deal with the string theory formalism. === Subject: Re: New book by Zwiebach I dont think its appropriate to teach undergrads (much less sophomores) this material. They should be learning the things that are tried and true, down to 11 decimal places. [Moderators note: Even if someone thought that string theory is *not* true, the book shows many different physical situations that require both physical and mathematical tools that are useful nearly everywhere in physics. Moreover, if we were only teaching dead subjects that have already been completed, the excitement of the students would be significantly reduced. Its just a great idea to show them basics of the cutting-edge research. This basic course of string theory is also an excellent opportunity for the readers (and students) to refine their experience with other subjects in physics, especially special relativity, electromagnetism, quantum mechanics, and statistical physics. Incidentally, only QED, the non-perturbatively inconsistent quantum field theory of light and matter, has been tested with the accuracy you mentioned. QCD, the asymptotically free non-perturbatively finite theory, expecting a Nobel prize on Tuesday or next year, is only tested up to a 1% precision or so, for example. If I summarize, Barton did a great job, and his book truly deserves to be the topseller among all textbooks (its been on rank 1,200 at amazon.com, which is really not bad for a textbook). LM] Consider that perhaps only half of them go to grad school, the remaining lot need to be learning the successful applications of the scientific method, and how to be skeptics. [Moderators note: What you say is important, but there are still many other subjects that should be doing it. But it is also important to make the students understand that some theories are under construction even today and physics has not ended with QM or QED - but that these theories must follow strict rules of mathematics and logic much like the old ones. Especially for those who will not become graduate students in theoretical physics, it is important - I think - that they will have an idea how the current research looks like. And string theory is, of course, the most logically rigid new theoretical structure the physicists study today - and among the theories under development, it is obviously the theory with the strongest links with other important structures in physics, including those that you had in mind. LM] We shouldnt be indoctrinating them with highly advanced material that conceptually changes every 5 years (read astrophysics and quantum gravity), ... [Moderators note: There is virtually nothing that can change about a book by Zwiebach in next 5 years. We can learn other important ideas, but we will hardly undo the insights described in this book. I dont exactly know what you mean by the periodic 5-year conceptual revolutions in astrophysics, but there are many other statements in your posting whose origin is very unclear to me, so I wont ask you about all of them. Let me summarize this part: among the theories under consideration, the basics of string theory remain the most reliable insight. Everything else can change, dualities modify our idea about nonperturbative physics of quantum gravity or whatever - but the free relativistic string is nearly guaranteed to remain an important physical system that should be taught. LM] ... that sorta defeats the fundamental purpose of the education of science, not to mention confuses issues that they may not have even seen before (I didnt even have quantum mechanics 1 until junior year at a level beyond the usual hand wavey experimental successes). [Moderators note: I first learned about Maxwells equations from a paper by Einstein about the Maxwells system in general relativity when I was 16, and you can see that I survived. The feeling that one studies something at the cutting edge is very important for the persons curiosity about the subject. In my opinion, science is not a collection of completed religious dogmas that dont allow any extensions, and it is still making clear progress - and the understanding of this fact is, I believe, one of the fundamental purposes of science education. LM] Consider that even the rudiments of field theory is rarely taught at a phenomenological level until senior year. [Moderators note: Bartons choice of the topics is very reasonable. Classical strings are a perfect example of classical mechanics. Instead of many convoluted exercises in classical mechanics, he can study the relativistic string as an example of the 1+1-dimensional field theory. In some sense, the string is *simpler* than other things we can teach. Moreover, it is a Lorentz-invariant theory, and a great exercise in relativity - there are not too many interesting nontrivial exercises like that. He quantizes the strings in the light-cone gauge - which allows him to avoid ghosts of all types - and the light-cone gauge spectrum is a great context to crystallize the knowledge of commutators, harmonic oscillators in quantum mechanics, and so forth. LM] However it should be a first year elective graduate level class, at least in principle, with levels 2 and 3 for those who are interested in subsequent semesters. Unfortunately, not every school offers courses like that, which is highly irratating. But sophomores, come on! How much can you really teach them beyond a pseudo religious handwavey type of spiel. [Moderators note: You obviously have not read a single page of that book because otherwise you could never say a nonsense like that. Even for those who dont want to believe string theory, the book is a perfect collection of great arguments and exercises training the concepts of mechanics, field theory, quantization, and so on. Another sourball could have written a posting like yours before Barton actually started with the experiment - and this sourball could have killed this idea. However, today we are in a different situation. Bartons experiment has already been proved to be a very good idea experimentally, and your hostile speculations have already been ruled out. LM] ------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- This post submitted through the LaTeX-enabled physicsforums.com To view this post with LaTeX images: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=33905#post327490 === Subject: Re: New book by Zwiebach > Even if someone thought that string theory is *not* true, > the book shows many different physical situations that require both > physical and mathematical tools that are useful nearly everywhere in physics. Sure, that is fine, but they can get those same tools in regular classes. > Incidentally, only QED, the > non-perturbatively inconsistent quantum field theory of light and matter, > has been tested with the accuracy you mentioned. Err you can find examples in statistical mechanics, optics, ßuid mechanics, general mechanics, ßuid mechanics, etc etc where the (read QED). > And string theory is, of course, the most > logically rigid new theoretical structure the physicists study today - and > among the theories under development, Maybe, sure why not. But again it begs the question.. Why arent we teaching the cutting edge intro classes in other areas like statistical mechanics.. Like say the BCS theory of superconductors. Precisely b/c its *hard* and the amount of material needed to understand things fully requires more than 1 year of freshman physics. > There is virtually nothing that can change about a book > by Zwiebach in next 5 years. Fine, 5 years is too broad a stroke. Still other fields like cosmology have been changing so rapidly, its hard to keep pace with the current thinking. Consider, when I learned relativity (also at the age of 15), Inßation wasnt even taught. Black holes had scarce empirical evidence.. Most people still were convinced we were living in a closed universe, hell most people didnt even know what a D-Brane was. Id say the paradigm has shifted slightly in the last 10 years since then. Likewise, I would assume quantum gravity is equally as fast paced and active a field. [Moderators note: I just wanted to say that Zwiebachs book is not a book about some over-specialized speculations. It is a book about serious stuff related to physics of strings, and the mathematical methods and steps explained in this book are - and will be - undisputable. LM] > In my opinion, science is not a collection > of completed religious dogmas that dont allow any extensions, and it > is still making clear progress - and the understanding of this fact is, > I believe, one of the fundamental purposes of science education. LM] I see what you are saying, but I dont quite agree. Respective theories like Maxwells equations ARE religious dogma. They wont change in 5 years, 1000 years from now, or 10000 years from now. They are simply the way nature is at some suitable approximation of validity. Now, curiousity of the cutting edge is important, and its nice to throw in some examples here and there to tantalize people. But a full on course, without the background material.. mmm > But sophomores, come on! How much can you really teach them beyond a > pseudo religious handwavey type of spiel. > You obviously have not read a single page of that book > because otherwise you could never say a nonsense like that. Even for > those who dont want to believe string theory, the book is a perfect > collection of great arguments and exercises training the concepts of > mechanics, field theory, quantization, and so on. Well you are correct, I admit I have never read a page of that book (id love too actually, now that I am quite well versed in texts like Polchinski) You know, I considered quantum mechanics 1 pseudo religious handwavey type of spiel as well when I was in college. Why? B/c I had already taken relativity, and Schroedingers equation is manifestly non covariant. It wasnt until Diracs eqns, field theory et al that things all of a sudden made sense in a somewhat rigorous way. Here you are teaching string theory, without knowledge of things like conformal field theory. How seriously do you think people are going to take things? Even if the theory deep down is fundamentally sound, what you teach them is literally replete with conceptual holes. So I mantain, if you are going to teach something with conceptual holes to beginners, might as well start from the basics.. Like classical mechanics, and progress onwards, in a logical fashion. Still, point taken, his seems to be a popular success story. === Subject: Congratulations to Gross, Politzer, Wilczek Today I woke up a bit early, to see how they have decided at http://nobelprize.org/ They decided correctly at last! Weve been guessing Gross, Politzer, and Wilczek as the strongest candidates at least for five years. This time was different, and our belief was strong. Gross and Wilczek in particular are continuing to be the leaders of the Gross is the director of the Kavli Institute for Theoretical Physics in Santa Barbara. The reason why this posting is not off-topic is that David Gross is also - I believe - the first string theorist awarded by the Nobel prize. (Among hundreds of his important papers, he is a co-discoverer of the heterotic string.) Well, the prize is not exactly for string theory this time, but at least, it is for something that may be dual to a string theory. :-) You can read about the history of asymptotic freedom - that was freedom (well, now its over 30 years) http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/9809060 We hope that the stringiness of the awarded discovery will be better next time; the beginnings are often modest, and string theory is the best example. ;-) Congratulations, Gentlemen, and thank you for your numerous contributions and excitement! _____________________________________________________________ _______________ __ E-mail: lumo@matfyz.cz fax: +1-617/496-0110 Web: http://lumo.matfyz.cz/ eFax: +1-801/454-1858 work: +1-617/384-9488 home: +1-617/868-4487 (call) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ === Subject: Problem with Polchinski I have been running into subtle problems with the Polchinski book treatment of conformal field theory. I cannot seem to figure out why the following statement is correct: Since the variation of the path integral w.r.t. the metric is given by an expectation value of the E-M-tensor as follows: delta <...>_g = int sqrt{g} h_{ab} where h_{ab} = delta g_{ab}, the *second-order* variation (see 3.4.22, p 94) is given by a double integral with two insertions of T: int d^z sqrt{g(z)} int d^z sqrt g(z) h_{ab}(z) h_{cd}(z) . I agree with the first formula when ... denotes operators that do not explicitly depend on the metric. However, when I try to verify the second formula, it seems to me that he has forgotten that T_{ab} = del_a X del_b X - half g{ab} g^{cd} del_c X del_d X really *does* depend on the metric, so that one should really have an *extra* term in the second variation int sqrt{g} h_{ab} since delta T^{ab} is not in general 0. [Moderators note: T^{ab} is not zero in general, but have not you considered the possibility that h_{ab} T^{ab} *is* zero in general? Its called tracelessness and holds for all conformal field theories. For example, with the definition of T above, the two terms Am I missing something? I suspect I am, since Polchinskis (incorrect?) formula for multiple insertions is actually taken by some other authors as an axiomatic property of T. Any help would be appreciated. J.E. === Subject: Re: Problem with Polchinski I apologize, Joan. You are absolutely correct. This is a small issue with Polchinskis book. Your observation leads to new terms that are only non-vanishing for z=z (which dont affect the questions he wants to study), and Polchinski says the following: p. 94 (12/31/98)*: In eqs. 3.4.21 and 3.4.22, contact terms (additional terms at z = z, as well as ambiguities in various quantities at that point) are (deliberately) ignored: the relation between c and a_1 is See http://theory.itp.ucsb.edu/~joep/errata.html _____________________________________________________________ _______________ __ E-mail: lumo@matfyz.cz fax: +1-617/496-0110 Web: http://lumo.matfyz.cz/ eFax: +1-801/454-1858 work: +1-617/384-9488 home: +1-617/868-4487 (call) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ === Subject: Re: Problem with Polchinski > [Moderators note: T^{ab} is not zero in general, but have not you > considered the possibility that h_{ab} T^{ab} *is* zero in general? > Its called tracelessness and holds for all conformal field > theories. For example, with the definition of T above, the two terms > LM] indeed zero. However, I used the notation h_{ab} = delta g_{ab}, the variation of g, and delta T^{ab} for the variation of T with respect to g. Then the second order term delta g_{ab} delta T^{ab} does not seem to be zero when I simplify it. J.E. [Moderators note: You probably meant (delta g_{ab}) T^{ab} without delta before T? One must be careful about all these details. My feeling is, and please dont get insulted, that Polchinski and others were more careful than you, and they definitely varied everything that should be varied. When I look at your question, I am more puzzled than before. Why do you vary T^{ab} once again? T^{ab} is already the result of the variation (of the matter part of the action) with respect to g_{ab}. It is not input to vary: it is already the coefficient of the result, by definition, and it should not be varied twice. Does it make sense? LM] === Subject: Standard Model from String Theory 3 scale inputs plus the symmetry group, giving seven inputs. It is typical of group-based GUT theories. Surely you [Tony Smith] can even predict the disintegration rate of proton (no joking, they do). Perhaps your question in this forum could be, if string theory has something to say about the group. As far as I understand, the answer is negative because moduli spaces let you choose between a lot of different groups. Isnt getting the standard model from string theory what lots of people have tried to do in lots of very different ways? The original popular way was to use an E6 subgroup of E8xE8. Smith gets E6 from E7. Is Smith forced into a particular group cause his model is a bosonic string one? Lee Smolin has tried to use a single exceptional group to get M-theory. Smolin interestingly started with a bosonic stringlike 26 dimensions and tried to use the 16 extra to get supersymmetry. In the old days didnt they try to use the extra 16 to get the standard model bosons? Smith uses the extra 16 to get standard model fermions. Its amazing how the same math can be used so differently. I like Smiths interpretation but Im not sure even Smith would agree with my reasons. My reasons kind of fall in the Lubos Motl mind of god aestetics category. The root vector geometry for these 16 vertices (actually 32 vertices since the dimensions are complex) look more like fermions to me. This has to do with them seeming to group nicely into up vs. down and the bosons being more naturally down in the SU(5)-like subgroups. Smith by the way does have exactly the same proton decay rate as minimal SU(5) GUT. By including the standard model, Smith is able to use diffusion equations on lattices or complex domains to get usually just uses lattices for this. === Subject: Re: Standard Model from String Theory > Isnt getting the standard model from string theory what lots of > people have tried to do in lots of very different ways? The original > popular way was to use an E6 subgroup of E8xE8. Smith gets E6 from E7. > Is Smith forced into a particular group cause his model is a bosonic > string one? Just a couple of trivialities: the couplings in the Standard Model are therefore we need complex representations (those that are inequivalent to their complex conjugates). E_6 is the only exceptional group whose compact form has any complex representations (the complex conjugation follows from the symmetry of the E_6 Dynkin diagram). Therefore E_6 is the only viable group for Grand Unification. In the models based on heterotic string theory by David Gross et al., this E_6 - or potentially smaller groups of it such as SO(16) - are obtained as the subgroup of E_8 which appears in heterotic string theory automatically. But the check is not just that E_6 is the correct subgroup of E_8. Even the correct representations appear - 248 of E_8 decomposes under E_6times SU(3) - where SU(3) is the centralizer of E_6 and vice versa (in both cases inside E_8) - as 248 = (78,1) + (27,3) + (27*,3*), (1,8) If you compactify the heterotic string on Calabi-Yau, the adjoint (78) of E_6 is of course broken to the unbroken group; the fermions appear from the triplets - the triplets of SU(3) - 3 and 3* - are actually reduced to 1 by the Calabi-Yau magic, but it is still important that the fermions transform as 27 of E_6, which is a realistic (complex) representation of E_6 for the fermions. (It contains the chiral complex spinor 16 under the subgroup SO(10), and this 16 is exactly what we want to reproduce the 15 Weyl spinors of one generations of quarks and leptons, plus a single extra right-handed neutrino.) Well, everything goes through if I imagine that E_8 is broken to E_6 via E_7 as an intermediate step - and therefore a model with a E_7 starting group could give the right representations, too, except that I dont know any good theory that only has E_7 at the beginning. > Lee Smolin has tried to use a single exceptional group to > get M-theory. Smolin interestingly started with a bosonic stringlike > 26 dimensions and tried to use the 16 extra to get supersymmetry. A well-known non-stringy colleague of mine has recently rejected a paper that claimed to have obtained a spacetime supersymmetric model from bosonic string theory. If someone claims that there is a serious way to get spacetime SUSY from bosonic string theory, I am eager to hear about it (because the possible relations between the superstring and the bosonic string have always excited me) - but be prepared that I think that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. ;-) > In the old days didnt they try to use the extra 16 to get the > standard model bosons? Not sure whether you mean successful research or unsuccessful speculations. The success story is the heterotic string in which you can derive the gauge group E_8 x E_8 (or SO(32)) from the 16=26-10 extra chiral bosons, as long as you use the correct, modular invariant theory, and you find all the wrapped/momentum states that produce the W-bosons (those outside the Cartan subalgebra). > Smith uses the extra 16 to get standard model fermions. That does not really sound right. The extra 16 bosons simply must live on the even self-dual lattice, and they uniquely lead to the two heterotic string theories. Moreover, there are translation symmetries for them, so the theory is guaranteed to have at least U(1)^{16} as the gauge group from the very beginning. Does he make some orbifolds of the chiral bosons, or chiral bosons with linear dilaton, or something like that? Ive been thinking about such additional options recently, but certainly not in connection with the Standard Model fermions. ;-) > Its amazing how the same math can be used so differently. I like > Smiths interpretation but Im not sure even Smith would agree with my > reasons. My reasons kind of fall in the Lubos Motl mind of god > aestetics category. The root vector geometry for these 16 vertices > (actually 32 vertices since the dimensions are complex) look more like > fermions to me. I am not sure what is needed for a root vector to look like a fermion ;-), but mathematically, the ground state in the heterotic string lattice has the same statistics as the zero-momentum state. To change its statistics, you must add some cocycles, and to make it consistent, you must simultaneously redefine your spacetime rotations. Can he get the superstring or something related by defining the physical Lorentz group as a diagonal group acting on two groups of Xs on the worldsheet? That certainly sounds exciting and similar to many working things in physics, but does it really work here? Is it really a conformal field theory that leads to a realistic low-energy physics in spacetime? _____________________________________________________________ _______________ __ E-mail: lumo@matfyz.cz fax: +1-617/496-0110 Web: http://lumo.matfyz.cz/ eFax: +1-801/454-1858 work: +1-617/384-9488 home: +1-617/868-4487 (call) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ === Subject: Does n-Brane theory conßict with Big Bang model of the universe? Does n-Brane theory conßict with the Big Bang model of the Universe and instead imply a Big Collapse or a Big Squish? If one thinks of the universe as a single self-contained entity, then the Universe is exactly one Universe wide and has always been so, and everything inside of it is instead shrinking. The reason the Universe appears to be expanding is because three-dimensional stuff inside it is in fact collapsing, as have the other n-dimensions outlined in string theory. The easist way (for me, at least) to picture this is if one has a ruler that is exactly one meter long. When you measure yourself, you are some multiple of one meter tall. However, if both you and the measuring stick are shrinking, it appears that everything else is getting farther away, while you are remaining the same size. (Eventually, you and the meter stick shrink to a singularity.) This would explain why everything in the Universe appears to be receeding from us. Its not really receeding- its collapsing. It also eliminates the idea that the Universe is expanding into nothing, which always seemed counter-intuitive to me. Any comments would be appreciated. Charles Hoffmann charleshhoffmann@comcast.net === Subject: Re: Standard Model from String Theory > Lee Smolin has tried to use a single exceptional group to > get M-theory. Smolin interestingly started with a bosonic stringlike > 26 dimensions and tried to use the 16 extra to get supersymmetry. > A well-known non-stringy colleague of mine has recently rejected a paper > that claimed to have obtained a spacetime supersymmetric model from > bosonic string theory. If someone claims that there is a serious way to > get spacetime SUSY from bosonic string theory, I am eager to hear about it > (because the possible relations between the superstring and the bosonic > string have always excited me) - but be prepared that I think that > extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. ;-) Here is the link to Lee Smolins paper on this. He is doing very much the same thing as Smith with added addition of looking for SUSY: http://xxx.lanl.gov/PS_cache/hep-th/pdf/0104/0104050.pdf > In the old days didnt they try to use the extra 16 to get the > standard model bosons? > Not sure whether you mean successful research or unsuccessful > speculations. The success story is the heterotic string in which you can > derive the gauge group E_8 x E_8 (or SO(32)) from the 16=26-10 extra > chiral bosons, as long as you use the correct, modular invariant theory, > and you find all the wrapped/momentum states that produce the W-bosons > (those outside the Cartan subalgebra). had in mind and it looks like youve supplied the last sentences for that story: Accordingly, if the Yang-Mills forces, such as electromagnetism, are included in a string theory, they must be unified with gravity in an intimate way. A kind of theory in which the YangMills forces can be associated with closed strings was formulated by David J. Gross, Jeffrey A. Harvey, Emil J. Martinec and Ryan Rohm of Princeton University. Such a theory is known as heterotic, and it is the most promising kind of superstring theory developed so far. Its construction is quite strange. The charges of the Yang-Mills forces are included by smearing them out over the entire heterotic string. Waves can travel around any closed string in two directions, but on a heterotic closed string the waves traveling clockwise are waves of a 10-dimensional superstring theory; the waves traveling counterclockwise are waves of the original, 26-dimensional string theory. The extra 16 dimensions are interpreted as internal dimensions responsible for the symmetries of the Yang-Mills forces. > Smith uses the extra 16 to get standard model fermions. > That does not really sound right. The extra 16 bosons simply must live on > the even self-dual lattice, and they uniquely lead to the two heterotic > string theories. Moreover, there are translation symmetries for them, so > the theory is guaranteed to have at least U(1)^{16} as the gauge group > from the very beginning. Does he make some orbifolds of the chiral bosons, > or chiral bosons with linear dilaton, or something like that? Ive been > thinking about such additional options recently, but certainly not in > connection with the Standard Model fermions. ;-) Yes, this is how Tony Smith describes it on his website: The following is my proposal to use the exceptional Lie algebra E6(-26), which I will for the rest of this message write as E6, to introduce fermions into string theory in a new way, based on the exceptional E6 relations between bosonic vectors/bivectors and fermionic spinors, in which 16 of the 26 dimensions are seen as orbifolds whose 8 + 8 singularities represent first-generation fermion This structure allows string theory to be physically interpreted as a theory of interaction among world-lines in the Many-Worlds. According to Soji Kaneyuki, in Graded Lie Algebras, Related Geometric Structures, and Pseudo-hermitian Symmetric Spaces, Analysis and Geometry on Complex Homogeneous Domains, by Jacques Faraut, Soji Kaneyuki, Adam Koranyi, Qi-keng Lu, and Guy Roos (Birkhauser 2000), E6 as a Graded Lie Algebra with 5 grades: g = E6 = g(-2) + g(-1) + g(0) + g(1) + g(2) such that g(0) = so(8) + R + R dimR g(-1) = dimR g(1) = 16 = 8 + 8 dimR g(-2) = dimR g(2) = 8 Here, step-by-step, is a description of the E6 structure: ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- ---- Step 1: g(0) = so(8) 28 gauge bosons _ + R + R | | dimR g(-1) = dimR g(1) = 16 = 8 + 8 |- 26-dim string spacetime | with J3(O)o structure dimR g(-2) = dimR g(2) = 8 _| ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- ---- Step 2: The E6 GLA has an Even Subalgebra gE (Bosonic) and an Odd Part gO (Fermionic): BOSONIC gE = g(-2) + g(0) + g(2) FERMIONIC gO = g(-1) + g(1) ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- ---- Step 3: BOSONIC g(0) = so(8) 28 gauge bosons _ + R + R | dimR g(-2) = dimR g(2) = 8 |- 10-dim spacetime _| FERMIONIC dimR g(-1) = dimR g(1) = 16 = 8 8-dim orbifold + 8 8-dim orbifold Giving the Fermionic sector orbifold structure gives each point of the string/world-line a discrete value corresponding to one of the 8+8 = ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- ---- Step 4: BOSONIC g(0) = so(8) 28 gauge bosons _ + R + R | dimR g(-2) = dimR g(2) = 8 |- 10-dim spacetime _| FERMIONIC dimR g(-1) = dimR g(1) = 16 = 8 8 fermions + 8 8 antifermions ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- ---- Step 5: BOSONIC 16-dim conformal U(2,2) g(0) = so(8) + 12-dim SU(3)xSU(2)xU(1) _ + R + R | dimR g(-2) = dimR g(2) = 4 |- 6-dim conformal spacetime _| + 4 4-dim internal symmetry space FERMIONIC dimR g(-1) = dimR g(1) = 16 = 8 8 fermions (3 gen) + 8 8 antifermions (3 gen) Dimensional reduction of spacetime breaks so(8) to U(2,2) and SU(3)xSU(2)xU(1) and also introduces 3 generations of fermion ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- ---- Step 6: BOSONIC 16-dim conformal U(2,2) g(0) = so(8) + 12-dim SU(3)xSU(2)xU(1) + R + R 2 spacetime conformal dim dimR g(-2) = dimR g(2) = 4 4-dim physical spacetime + 4 4-dim internal symmetry space FERMIONIC dimR g(-1) = dimR g(1) = 16 = 8 8 fermions (3 gen) + 8 8 antifermions (3 gen) The 2 spacetime conformal dimensions R+R are related to complex structure of spacetime g(-2) + g(2) and fermionic g(-1) + g(1). Physical spacetime and internal symmetry space, and fermionic representation spaces, are related to Shilov boundaries of the corresponding complex domains. > Just a couple of trivialities: the couplings in the Standard Model are > therefore we need complex representations (those that are inequivalent to > their complex conjugates). E_6 is the only exceptional group whose compact > form has any complex representations (the complex conjugation follows > from the symmetry of the E_6 Dynkin diagram). Therefore E_6 is the only > viable group for Grand Unification. > In the models based on heterotic string theory by David Gross et al., this > E_6 - or potentially smaller groups of it such as SO(16) - are obtained as > the subgroup of E_8 which appears in heterotic string theory > automatically. But the check is not just that E_6 is the correct subgroup > of E_8. Even the correct representations appear - 248 of E_8 decomposes > under E_6times SU(3) - where SU(3) is the centralizer of E_6 and vice > versa (in both cases inside E_8) - as > 248 = (78,1) + (27,3) + (27*,3*), (1,8) > If you compactify the heterotic string on Calabi-Yau, the adjoint (78) of > E_6 is of course broken to the unbroken group; the fermions appear from > the triplets - the triplets of SU(3) - 3 and 3* - are actually reduced to > 1 by the Calabi-Yau magic, but it is still important that the fermions > transform as 27 of E_6, which is a realistic (complex) representation of > E_6 for the fermions. (It contains the chiral complex spinor 16 under the > subgroup SO(10), and this 16 is exactly what we want to reproduce the 15 > Weyl spinors of one generations of quarks and leptons, plus a single > extra right-handed neutrino.) Well, everything goes through if I imagine > that E_8 is broken to E_6 via E_7 as an intermediate step - and therefore > a model with a E_7 starting group could give the right representations, > too, except that I dont know any good theory that only has E_7 at the > beginning. It actually starts at a single E8 for Smith, he states it this way: 78-dim E6 = 45-dim Adjoint of Spin(10) + 32-dim Spinor of Spin(10) + Imaginary of C; 133-dim E7 = 66-dim Adjoint of Spin(12) + 64-dim Spinor of Spin(12) + Imaginaries of Q; 248-dim E8 = 120-dim Adjoint of Spin(16) + 128-dim half-Spinor of Spin(16) Physically, E6 corresponds to 26-dim String Theory, related to traceless J3(O)o and the symmetric space E6 / F4. E7 corresponds to 27-dim M-Theory, related to the Jordan algebra J3(O) and the symmetric space E7 / E6 x U(1). E8 corresponds to 28-dim F-Theory, related to the Jordan algebra J4(Q) and the symmetric space E8 / E7 x SU(2). > Its amazing how the same math can be used so differently. I like > Smiths interpretation but Im not sure even Smith would agree with my > reasons. My reasons kind of fall in the Lubos Motl mind of god > aestetics category. The root vector geometry for these 16 vertices > (actually 32 vertices since the dimensions are complex) look more like > fermions to me. > I am not sure what is needed for a root vector to look like a fermion > ;-), but mathematically, the ground state in the heterotic string lattice > has the same statistics as the zero-momentum state. To change its > statistics, you must add some cocycles, and to make it consistent, you > must simultaneously redefine your spacetime rotations. Can he get the > superstring or something related by defining the physical Lorentz group as > a diagonal group acting on two groups of Xs on the worldsheet? That > certainly sounds exciting and similar to many working things in physics, > but does it really work here? Is it really a conformal field theory that > leads to a realistic low-energy physics in spacetime? I was talking about the 78 root vector vertices for the E6 string theory itself but your question is much more interesting since Tony Smith does use a U(8) model with strings between D8 branes and his D8 brane is a superposition of the 8 E8 lattices. He describes it as follows: Step 1: Consider the 26 Dimensions of String Theory as the 26-dimensional traceless part J3(O)o a O+ Ov O+* b O- Ov* O-* -a-b (where Ov, O+, and O- are in Octonion space with basis {1,i,j,k,E,I,J,K} and a and b are real numbers with basis {1}) of the 27-dimensional Jordan algebra J3(O) of 3x3 Hermitian Octonion matrices. ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- ---- Step 2: Take Urs Schreibers D3 brane to correspond to the Imaginary Quaternionic associative subspace spanned by {i,j,k} in the 8-dimenisonal Octonionic Ov space. ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- ---- Step 3: Compactify the 4-dimensional co-associative subspace spanned by {E,I,J,K} in the Octonionic Ov space as a CP2 = SU(3)/U(2), with its 4 world-brane scalars corresponding to the 4 covariant components of a Higgs scalar. Add this subspace to D3, to get D7. ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- ---- Step 4: Orbifold the 1-dimensional Real subspace spanned by {1} in the Octonionic Ov space by the discrete multiplicative group Z2 = {-1,+1}, with its fixed points {-1,+1} corresponding to past and future time. This discretizes time steps and gets rid of the world-brane scalar corresponding to the subspace spanned by {1} in Ov. It also gives our brane a 2-level timelike structure, so that its past can connect to the future of a preceding brane and its future can connect to the past of a succeeding brane. Add this subspace to D7, to get D8. D8, our basic Brane, looks like two layers (past and future) of D7s. Beyond D8 our String Theory has 26 - 8 = 18 dimensions, of which 25 - 8 have corresponding world-brane scalars: 8 world-brane scalars for Octonionic O+ space; 8 world-brane scalars for Octonionic O- space; 1 world-brane scalars for real a space; and 1 dimension, for real b space, in which the D8 branes containing spacelike D3s are stacked in timelike order. ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- ---- Step 5: To use Urs Schreibers idea to get rid of the world-brane scalars corresponding to the Octonionic O+ space, orbifold it by the 16-element discrete multiplicative group Oct16 = {+/-1,+/-i,+/-j,+/-k,+/-E,+/-I,+/-J,+/-K} to reduce O+ to 16 singular points {-1,-i,-j,-k,-E,-I,-J,-K,+1,+i,+j,+k,+E,+I,+J,+K}. Let the 8 O+ singular points {-1,-i,-j,-k,-E,-I,-J,-K} correspond to quark, blue up quark, electron, red down quark, green down quark, blue down quark} located on the past D7 layer of D8. Let the 8 O+ singular points {+1,+i,+j,+k,+E,+I,+J,+K} correspond to quark, blue up quark, electron, red down quark, green down quark, blue down quark} located on the future D7 layer of D8. This gets rid of the 8 world-brane scalars corresponding to O+, and leaves: 8 world-brane scalars for Octonionic O- space; 1 world-brane scalars for real a space; and 1 dimension, for real b space, in which the D8 branes containing spacelike D3s are stacked in timelike order. ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- ---- Step 6: To use Urs Schreibers idea to get rid of the world-brane scalars corresponding to the Octonionic O- space, orbifold it by the 16-element discrete multiplicative group Oct16 = {+/-1,+/-i,+/-j,+/-k,+/-E,+/-I,+/-J,+/-K} to reduce O- to 16 singular points {-1,-i,-j,-k,-E,-I,-J,-K,+1,+i,+j,+k,+E,+I,+J,+K}. Let the 8 O- singular points {-1,-i,-j,-k,-E,-I,-J,-K} correspond to anti-quark, green up anti-quark, blue up anti-quark, positron, red down anti-quark, green down anti-quark, blue down anti-quark} located on the past D7 layer of D8. Let the 8 O- singular points {+1,+i,+j,+k,+E,+I,+J,+K} correspond to anti-quark, green up anti-quark, blue up anti-quark, positron, red down anti-quark, green down anti-quark, blue down anti-quark} located on the future D7 layer of D8. This gets rid of the 8 world-brane scalars corresponding to O-, and leaves: 1 world-brane scalars for real a space; and 1 dimension, for real b space, in which the D8 branes containing spacelike D3s are stacked in timelike order. ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- ---- Step 7: Let the 1 world-brane scalar for real a space correspond to a Bohm-type Quantum Potential acting on strings in the stack of D8 branes. Interpret strings as world-lines in the Many-Worlds, short strings ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- ---- Step 8: Fundamentally, physics is described on HyperDiamond Lattice structures. There are 7 independent E8 lattices, each corresponding to one of the 7 imaginary octionions. They can be described as iE8, jE8, kE8, EE8, IE8, JE8, and KE8. Further, an 8th naturally related, but dependent, E8 lattice corresponds to the real octonions and can be described as 1E8. Give each D8 brane structure based on Planck-scale E8 lattices so that each D8 brane is a superposition/intersection/coincidence of the eight E8 lattices. ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- ---- Step 9: Since Polchinski says ... If r D-branes coincide ... there are r^2 vectors, forming the adjoint of a U(r) gauge group ..., make the following assignments: a gauge boson emanating from D8 only from its 1E8 lattice is a U(1) photon; a gauge boson emanating from D8 only from its 1E8 and EE8 lattices is a U(2) weak boson; a gauge boson emanating from D8 only from its IE8, JE8, and KE8 lattices is a U(3) gluon. Note that I do not consider it problematic to have U(2) and U(3) instead of SU(2) and SU(3) for the weak and color forces, respectively. Here is some further discussion of the global Standard Model group structure. Here is some discussion of the root vector structures of the Standard Model groups. ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- ---- Step 10: Since Polchinski says ... there will also be r^2 massless scalars from the components normal to the D-brane. ... the collectives coordinates ... X^u ... for the embedding of n D-branes in spacetime are now enlarged to nxn matrices. This Ônoncummutative geometry ...[may be]... an important hint about the nature of spacetime. ..., make the following assignment: The 8x8 matrices for the collective coordinates linking a D8 brane to the next D8 brane in the stack are needed to connect the eight E8 lattices of the D8 brane to the eight E8 lattices of the next D8 brane in the stack. We have now accounted for all the scalars, and, since, as Lubos Motl noted, ... string theory always contains gravity ..., we have here at Step 10 a specific example of a String Theory containing gravity and the U(1)xSU(2)xSU(3) Standard Model. ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- ---- Step 11: We can go a bit further by noting that we have not described gauge bosons emanating from D8 from its iE8, jE8, or kE8 lattices. Therefore, make the following assignment: a gauge boson emanating from D8 only from its 1E8, iE8, jE8, and kE8 lattices is a U(2,2) conformal gauge boson. We have here at Step 10 a String Theory containing the Standard Model plus two forms of gravity: closed-string gravity and conformal U(2,2) = Spin(2,4)xU(1) gravity plus conformal structures, based on a generalized MacDowell-Mansouri mechanism. I conjecture that those two forms of gravity are not only consistent, but that the structures of each will shed light on the structures of the other, and that the conformal structures are related to the conformal gravity ideas of I. E. Segal. ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- ---- Step 12: Going a bit further leads to consideration of the exceptional E-series of Lie algebras, as follows: a gauge boson emanating from D8 only from its 1E8, iE8, jE8, kE8, and EE8 lattices is a U(5) gauge boson related to Spin(10) and Complex E6. a gauge boson emanating from D8 only from its 1E8, iE8, jE8, kE8, EE8, and IE8 lattices is a U(6) gauge boson related to Spin(12) and Quaternionic E7. a gauge boson emanating from D8 only from its 1E8, iE8, jE8, kE8, EE8, IE8, and JE8 lattices is a U(7) gauge boson related to Spin(14) and possibly to Sextonionic E(7+(1/2)). a gauge boson emanating from D8 only from its 1E8, iE8, jE8, kE8, EE8, IE8, JE8, and KE8 lattices is a U(8) gauge boson related to Spin(16) and Octonionic E8. === Subject: Re: Standard Model from String Theory to sci.physics.strings Re: Standard Model from String Theory: > ... Smith ... uses ... E6 ... extra 16 ... root vector ... > vertices ... to get standard model fermions ... > (actually 32 vertices since the dimensions are complex) ..., to sci.physics.strings Re: Standard Model from String Theory > ... a realistic (complex) representation of E_6 for the fermions ... > contains the chiral complex spinor 16 under the subgroup SO(10), > and this 16 is exactly what we want to reproduce > the 15 Weyl spinors of one generations of quarks and leptons, > plus a single extra right-handed neutrino ... > ... Does he make some orbifolds of the chiral bosons ... > or something like that? .... Yes, I do use orbifolding of the 16. The second post by John Gonsowski to this thread includes some details about how my E6 string model works, but if you prefer a single pdf file and an html file with some pictures, there is a overview paper at at http://www.innerx.net/personal/tsmith/ E6StringBraneStdModelAR.pdf and a web page with more details about the root vector geometry of the orbifolding (which is an idea based on a comment from Urs Schreiber) is on my web site in html format (with some root vector pictures) at http://www.innerx.net/personal/tsmith/orbifoldingE6st.html Since I have had some difficulty in posting such material in more widely read venues than the ones listed above, I am offering a $100,000.00 prize, the terms of which are on the web at http://www.innerx.net/personal/tsmith/VoDouPhysicsPrize.html Tony Smith The e-mail address I use for posting here has been if you want me to actually read any message you can send it to me at the following e-mail address: f130smith here-put-the-symbol-for-at-without-spaces mindspring here-put-the-symbol-for-dot-without-spaces com My web site home page is at http://www.innerx.net/personal/tsmith/TShome.html [Linebreaks edited by L.M.] === Subject: Re: Standard Model from String Theory > and a web page with more details about the root vector geometry of the > orbifolding (which is an idea based on a comment from Urs Schreiber) is > on my web site in html format (with some root vector pictures) at > http://www.innerx.net/personal/tsmith/orbifoldingE6st.html My favorite root vector projection is one where the five A-D series axes kind of form an asterisk on the screen and the three E series axes are perpendicular to the screen. I had the D5 axis perpendicular to the screen sometimes too. One of these days I need to see where all the vertices go for other projections. > Since I have had some difficulty in posting such material in more widely > read venues than the ones listed above, I am offering a $100,000.00 prize, > the terms of which are on the web at > http://www.innerx.net/personal/tsmith/VoDouPhysicsPrize.html This is like the X Prize being offered by a private company that already has a spacecraft in orbit. I had actually been hoping to meet you before your difficulty helped keep you from attending Quantum === Subject: Re: Standard Model from String Theory > A well-known non-stringy colleague of mine has recently rejected a paper > that claimed to have obtained a spacetime supersymmetric model from > bosonic string theory. If someone claims that there is a serious way to > get spacetime SUSY from bosonic string theory, I am eager to hear about it > (because the possible relations between the superstring and the bosonic > string have always excited me) - but be prepared that I think that > extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. ;-) Would this be, by chance, hep-th/0408130 or other works by this author? Kris [Moderators note: I apologize but no specific information about this event can be given, I think. Maybe it is another author, maybe it is the same author, and you have roughly 10 choices who the referee is. ;-) LM] === Subject: Re: Standard Model from String Theory > [Moderators note: I apologize but no specific information about this > event can be given, I think. Maybe it is another author, maybe it is the > same author, and you have roughly 10 choices who the referee is. ;-) LM] OK, I didnt realise you were discussing a journal submission, which should remain confidential. Kris [Moderators note: No prob, and I cant tell you whether it was a journal submission. ;-) LM] === Subject: Re: Stringy naturalness thank you very much for your time and extensive reply. I think that your points became more comprehensible, and many of them have my sympathies. Its clear that your time is valuable, so dont hurry up with another answer if any. > But perhaps the strongest motivation for the definition (**), as I > explain in 0409207 and elsewhere, is that under certain assumptions -- > mostly, that the number of vacua that we believe are candidates is in > this 10^100-10^300 range, (**) could lead to believable arguments that > certain possible physics could NOT be obtained from string/M theory, > because there are just not enough vacua of that type to tune the > cosmological constant and get the other parameters right. For example, I totally appreciate this point, and use it all the time in the discussions. For example, 10^{300} may seem like a lot, but if one assumes a more or less uniform Lambda, getting it more or less right reduces the number to 10^{200}. Most of them do not have a correct Standard Model, and so on. So if one ends up with 10^{100} Standard Model vacua in string theory, it may not be enough to get the parameters right: choosing one vacuum among 10^{100} is like choosing 100 decimal digits of information (input), which means that the 30 parameters of the Standard Model (neutrino masses counted) can only be adjusted roughly to 3 decimal digits per each parameter. Our experimental precision may easily become better. So if we were really able to calculate the stringy vacua properly and accurately enough - and all of them ;-), it seems pretty clear to me that we could either falsify string theory (or at least these checked classes of vacua), or find the correct vacuum that would have to convince everyone. Were not there yet. > It does not matter whether the vacua which do it are complicated or > whether we dislike them for some other subjective reason. It would not matter assuming that you could really extract all the necessary information with a high enough precision - and verify that a given vacuum (say, a generic vacuum from a large class) agrees with reality exactly, giving you a plenty of nontrivial (and successfully tested) digits to check beyond those that you inserted as input. In that case, I think that no rational person would have serious doubts that this vacuum is correct, even if it looks slightly contrived, and the selection mechanism, cosmology, and everything else would have to be adjusted in such a way that it agrees with this obviously correct vacuum. I hope this answer makes you a bit happier, and I also hope that you would agree that the same approval would apply to a theory from a very small class, once its successfully tested. But in my opinion, if we only consider some sort of approximate, qualitative agreement, it is less convincing to explain some class of phenomena with a more arbitrary theory (a theory with many choices/vacua, although they are just discrete) than with a more rigid theory (by theory I can mean a particular class of string vacua that do *not* come in too many ßavors). > The reason 10^300 should not be approximated by infinity, while > perhaps 10^1000 could be, is just the amount of data at hand and the > structure of the problem. As discussed in 0303194, we measure many > parameters of the SM to some precision, and the cosmological constant > to fantastic accuracy, and it is the problem of matching this data > which leads to numbers like 10^240. I agree that 10^{300} might not be enough at the end ;-), but we are not at the end yet. Your texts simply lead me to the feeling that you believe that if we find a proof that the number of vacua in some class XY - whatever grouping to the classes one chooses - is much bigger than the number of vacua in another class VW, then we should focus most of our research energy on XY. This is the point that I cant agree with, because I think that a small, underpopulated class of vacua has roughly the same chance to be relevant for reality as an overpopulated class of vacua - and the explanation of reality with the small class would even be more satisfactory and impressive because more detailed facts about the structure of the Universe would be explained. One of your assumptions seems to be that the final explanation of reality *cannot* be that impressive and we must live in a generic vacuum of some type where very many things remain unexplained (a result of evironmental accidents) which I view to be the *unscientific* part of the anthropic reasoning. In other words, I think that the amount of research energy and optimism that we focus on a given class of vacua XY should be proportional to the amount of interesting ideas (both mathematically, as well as the ideas that seem to be relevant for reality) in this class, which is a very different quantity than the number of discrete vacua in this class. Let me interpret your approach - as I see it - in a slightly different way. You seem to be emphasizing the populated classes of vacua, and the generic vacua in this counting. And the reason seems to be that these are the vacua where you have the greatest probability to find one that agrees with reality pretty well assuming that all parameters predicted by the vacua in this class are distributed sort of randomly. But that does not seem to be the purpose of physics because we dont want to find a vacuum that just looks, within the experimental errors, compatible with reality, do we? This would be a pure description, not a quest for a predictive correct theory. We want to find the *exact* vacuum, one that is able to predict the numbers about the *future* experiments with an arbitrary, ever increasing accuracy, and I just see no reason why the *exact* vacuum describing the Universe around should be generic in the counting with the uniform measure. This statement about genericity of the vacuum around us could only result from some metathermodynamic ensemble of Universes that, for a reason totally mysterious to me, assigns the same (or roughly the same) probability for any vacuum. Do you think that such a mechanism exists anywhere (in early cosmology? Cosmology of the multiverses?). If there are two very different classes of vacua with very different numbers of members, and they seem to have the same amount of interesting ideas, and they seem roughly equally realistic, then I would only agree that the large class will have a bigger chance to shoot near the real Universe assuming that the theory as wrong and the agreements are pure coincidences. If we want to maximize our chances to pretend the agreement and show that the theory looks rather correct (even though it is not exactly correct), then the large class is a better choice. On the other hand, if the theory is valid and one of the vacua is exactly correct, the statements that it must come from the smaller (or larger) group seem equally reasonable to me, and the answer smaller is certainly more appealing, predictive, and satisfactory. If we want to find a *completely* correct theory that can give us arbitrarily many arbitrarily accurate new predictions, then the correct predictions from such a theory cannot be guessed by coincidence (the probability to get everything exactly right is zero, much less than 10^{-1000}), and the large number of vacua in a class simply does not help. What helps are well-motivated ideas. I think that the field theory counterpart of your approach would be the following: imagine that we dont know the Standard Model (nor string theory) yet, and we are looking for a QFT that describes the phenomena up to 200 GeV properly within the class of renormalizable 4D quantum field theories. I think that a reasoning similar to yours would lead us to the theories with very many (infinitely many?) fields and adjustable parameters, because the number of these theories - understood as the space of parameters (coupling constants) - is peaked for these convoluted theories. In this field theory context I am sure that you will agree that this specific implementation of your rule is not only un-predictive, but it is also incorrect because the correct theory, namely the Standard Model, only has these less than 30 parameters as we already know. In my opinion, the only relevant difference between the quantum field theory example above and the case of string theory landscape is that they organize the parameters differently. It remains unreasonable to focus on the huge classes of vacua - whose predictive power is inevitably limited by the large input. The only way how the string theory situation could be very different is the case when we actually use the fact that these vacua are dynamically connected within a single theory - but this fact can only be used once we compute the actual dynamics (tunneling between the different Universes right after the Big Bang); but if we calculate it this way, I am pretty sure that the result will be extremely far from your uniform probability measure on the vacua. > might roughly match observations (infinite series of CYs, of vector > bundles, of brane configurations etc.) and my tentative conclusion is > that there are not; there are many infinite series (arbitrary ßux in > AdS_5 times S^5 being the simplest illustration) which however do not > match observation because they have towers of light states coming > down. An infinite series of CY_3s might not have this property, but > the finitude of CY_3s is a famous conjecture at this point -- > this is not to say we know it is true, just that many people have > thought about it and it is consistent with everything else we know. > Anyways, more people should be working on trying to find infinite > series of potentially realistic vacua. Right. As far as I understand, its proved (according to what you say) that a finite number of CY_3 topologies implies a finite number of corresponding type II (and heterotic?) geometric vacua - i.e. the ßuxes and bundles cant multiply it by infinity. Is that correct? Cannot you still have an infinite number of realistic nongeometric vacua? > Alternatively, it might turn out in the end that the number is more > like 10^1000. Suppose we prove to our own satisfaction that there are > 10^1000 relevant vacua, which are uniformly enough distributed that > string theory can reproduce a huge variety of extensions of the > Standard Model. Now I would consider this a huge victory for string... Well, yes, we clearly differ on this point. I dont see any victory about this situation; in fact, we are not terribly far from this situation, and the current situation does not seem as a final victory to me (or most others). ;-) > theorists, in that we answered a primary question, even if from some > point of view the answer was negative. We would have a theory which > could fit the data, and might lead to interesting new predictions in > yet unrealized situations. I dont understand how can one make predictions if virtually all - or at least extremely many possibilities - exist for the new physics. Do you mean quantitative predictions, or some qualitative predictions? > Now, predictions under assumptions such as principle X, cannot > literally falsify the theory, they can only falsify the combination of > theory + assumptions. Suppose no vacuum satisfying X reproduces the > observations, while some other vacuum Y not satisfying X, say it > requires special tuning of the initial conditions, has parameters > which are not of order 1, etc., actually does. Will you go on to tell > me that string theory is wrong, that vacuum Y is no good? As Ive said, I will only approve Y as the correct vacuum once its able to successfully predict - in agreement with observations - many more pieces of information (for example, couplings in the Standard Model with very good accuracy) than the information input that you inserted (in the form of the discrete choice of Y within its class). As long as you only talk about the potential to agree with reality exactly enough, I will insist that we dont know whether Y is quite good, and the large number of representatives similar to Y does not make the probability that Y is *exactly* correct any more likely. > I think it would be valuable for you to propose any precise version of > your (##). Right, I would need a cosmological mechanism that decides what is the thermal weight of the vacuum in some big-bang ensemble of all Universes, whatever it means. This leads us to the problems of quantum cosmology. But in a sense, the goal is that one starts with a Planckian seed which may be universal in some sense - or whose details do not matter - and evolve it according some rules that can still tell us what is the probability for dimensions to grow into some given shapes/vacua of string theory. I dont know how to calculate this early cosmology or whatever it is, but it should be done at one moment, and the result will be almost definitely different from the uniform distribution of the probabilities per vacuum. The uniform distribution is also not what one gets from the anthropic reasoning - where every vacuum is weighted by the number of people that will occur in the Universe. > a few cycles? Why? As for ßuxes, the explicit discrete parameters > depend on a choice of basis, ambiguous up to Sp(b_3,Z) > transformations. How do I decide if they are order one? And so > on... Well, I agree. The definition - or derivation - which vacua are simpler in this class would have to be more specific, and it is conceivable that the simple ßux vacua would have the property that there exists a basis (or a Sp(b_3,Z) transformation of the original basis) in which most ßuxes are zero, for example. I dont know. It is also conceivable that the large degeneracy of these vacua will be viewed, at the end, as a reason why this whole class is not interesting. > Please think about this as while I agree with some of your comments, > others seem basically wrong to me. For example, the comment early on > that According to (**), the more ambiguous and unpredictive something > is, the better. This is totally backwards as the most interesting > case is of course when the distribution of some observable is highly > peaked. So, if it were to turn out that the distribution of the rank > N of the gauge group among vacua was highly peaked at 4, that would be > quite interesting, and many would consider it a candidate explanation It would just not be too interesting to people with similar feelings as I because the understanding that the gauge groups rank - one number - is generically equal to four is very far from being able to predict the results of billions of experiments that we can make - simply because the rank is a very tiny part of the total information about the model. The concept of the heterotic strings on Calabi-Yau spaces naturally predicts reasonable representations for the fermions, which would still seem as a much bigger success than some calculation leading to average rank equals four. Moreover, the rank is certainly not peaked around four in the class of *all* vacua - your/Juans infinite class AdS5 x S5 with ßux N has different ranks, for example. Therefore, you only want to look for ranks peaked around four within a subclass of vacua that match the reality in other aspects. In this sense, you are looking for realistic correlations between different realistic features of the stringy vacua - and you want to show them as successes. Well, I dont think that such a statistical correlation is an impressive success, especially because between a large number of variables you can always find a pair of variables that are correlated the way you want. Kumar and Wells, for example, seem to disagree with you, too (and agree with me). Their motivation is, on the contrary, to look for properties of the stringy vacua that are *not* peaked around the right values, because these properties are the best guides to reduce the set of candidate vacua - they give us the maximal possible information. This is a possible path to progress which is better than to look for things that already seem pretty OK generically. Do you agree? Consider three classes of the vacua as an example (the properties described below are simplified, and many other properties are not listed; it is a thought experiment). 1. The classical 1980s vacua - heterotic strings on Calabi-Yaus. They naturally lead to reasonable gauge groups and matter spectrum 2. The intersecting brane models. They can give us realistic SM-like models, and they naturally lead to the exponential hierarchy of fermionic masses 3. The type IIB ßux vacua. They can lead to many different Universes including those SM-like ones, and their main virtue (?) is that the number of these vacua is largest, around 10^{1000} Which class would we prefer as a candidate for reality? I would definitely prefer 1,2 because of their specific physical properties listed above, while the virtue of 3 does not impress me at all. Do you differ? > for the observed rank of the Standard Model gauge group. According to > (**), the property N=4 would be highly natural. What does (##) say > about it? I completely agree. 11-dimensional M-theory or 10-dimensional string theory *are* natural (and simple) vacua, and we probably *must* use some anthropic argument to explain why we dont live in a higher-dimensional world or a world vith a higher supersymmetry. The compactifications are OK and one can add ingredients, but the more ingredients (that carry a lot of discrete information/input) we add, the less rigid and convincing the structure is. I am not questioning that string theory allows us to include the ßuxes and branes consistently, but I am questioning the idea that a large number of ßuxes and wrapped branes on a complicated internal manifold is what can be naturally expected to arise from early cosmology (or from another rational explanation of the structure of the extra dimensions). Well, the more ingredients and ßuxes we add, the easier it is to agree with all known data within some accuracy - but this is a very different value from having a correct predictive theory, I think. Could I ask you a specific question once more? If you or someone else proved with certainty that the number of vacua whose best description is M-theory on G_2 holonomy manifolds is 10^{150} times smaller than the number of type IIB ßux vacua, would you recommend all the researchers on G_2 holonomy manifolds (perhaps, except for 10^{-148} percent of them, which is much less than one electron) to switch to type IIB because of this counting? Of course, my answer would definitely be No - maybe even on the contrary. Lubos _____________________________________________________________ _______________ __ E-mail: lumo@matfyz.cz fax: +1-617/496-0110 Web: http://lumo.matfyz.cz/ eFax: +1-801/454-1858 work: +1-617/384-9488 home: +1-617/868-4487 (call) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ === Subject: Non-physicist: nothing is actually moving? I was wondering if the string theory says that photons are actualy waves in the space-time fabric. Also I would like to know if their is a theory that says, instead of having many tiny strings, space-time itself would be The String and what appeared to be tiny strings would be ripples (interference?)in the space-time fabric. Im not really a physicist so I might not make sense. === Subject: Re: Non-physicist: nothing is actually moving? > I was wondering if the string theory says that photons are actualy > waves in the space-time fabric. Photons have been quanta of electromagnetic waves since they were first proposed in the early 20th century. Theodor Kaluza made a shocking suggestion back in 1919 when he proposed that the electromagnetic waves are actually ripples on the shape of spacetime in the 5th dimension. This Kaluza-Klein theory was the first serious proposal to unify gravity and electromagnetism. This KK theory has become a part of string theory. In some cases (in some spacetimes that solve the constraints of string theory), the electromagnetism can be interpreted as curvature of spacetime (including an extra, hidden, small dimension). In all cases, electromagnetism and gravity are unified into something like a generalized geometry. Moreover, a photon, much like a graviton, can be interpreted as a string moving in space and vibrating in a certain way. Gravitons are always closed strings (circle-shaped loops) while photons can be both closed strings as well as open strings (in the braneworlds). > Also I would like to know if their is a theory that says, instead of > having many tiny strings, space-time itself would be The String and > what appeared to be tiny strings would be ripples (interference?)in > the space-time fabric. Actually, there is one proposal that sort of matches your - otherwise a bit confusing - remark. Some authors have proposed that the whole Universe started, a very short time after the big bang, as a single string. No four-dimensional spacetime really existed at that moment; the Universe could have been interpreted using two-dimensional theory describing two dimensions of stringy worldsheets (one spatial dimension, one time). Moreover, in some sense, the spacetime is always made of strings - it is a condensate of strings organized in a very specific fashion. See my new blog - http://motls.blogspot.com/ - for related texts. _____________________________________________________________ _______________ __ E-mail: lumo@matfyz.cz fax: +1-617/496-0110 Web: http://lumo.matfyz.cz/ eFax: +1-801/454-1858 work: +1-617/384-9488 home: +1-617/868-4487 (call) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ === Subject: Re: gravitons and photons > Does string theory say anything about how or whether gravitons can > interact with photons? They are both bosons so can they scatter off > one another for starters? > [Moderators note: Yes, string theory guarantees the principle of > equivalence. All mass and energy in the Universe is subject to gravity. > Photons carry nonzero energy, and therefore they interact with > gravitons. LM] This has bothering me for a while (I am not a physicists): If mass can be converted into energy (i.e., energy and mass are equivalent), how can photons have zero rest mass while exchanging force between electrons? How can a photon exchange energy, and not have mass? The principle of equivalence states there is no discernable difference between inertial mass and gravitational mass, but it seems like there are two types of mass: relativistic mass and rest mass. I think this has to do with inertial frames of reference, spacetime geodesics and how the zero rest mass of a photon is still mass proportional to its frequency (nonzero energy?). If this requires too long of a reply (I realize this is sci.physics.strings and not sci.physics.relativity), can I have some URLs or names of books to read? [Moderators note: The rest mass m_0 of a photon is zero, but the rest mass is only relevant for expressing physics in the rest frame. The rest frame of a photon does not exist - a photon moves by the speed of light, and therefore the Lorentz factor 1/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2) is infinite. One must always observe the photon from another from, and then the ratio m_0 c^2/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2) - which is formally 0/0 - is a finite number that expresses the total energy of your photon with respect to this frame. This total energy E equals E=hf where f is the frequency and h is the Plancks constant - and this total finite energy of objects is what determines both the inertial mass (resistance to acceleration) as well as the strength of the gravitational force (by the principle of equivalence). Photons move by the speed of light, which is certainly not negligible compared to the speed of light, and therefore your non-relativistic intuition fails completely. The kinetic energy is not a small correction above the rest mass. Once again, the rest mass is zero, and the whole energy is kinetic - which does not mean that you can neglect it. LM] === Subject: [Rated: speculation] Alternative to strings and Kaluza-Klein approach Dan Smith mentioned in his positing octonions, quaternions and CP_2 in his comments. During last 25 years I have developed a unification that I call Topological Geometrodynamics based on the assumption that space-times are representable as 4-surfaces in H= M^4xCP_2. Octonions and quaternion appear in a number theoretic formulation of TGD too. TGD can be regarded either as a generalization of string model by replacing string world sheet with space-time 4-surface or as a fusion of special and general relativities to obtain a Poincare invariant theory of gravitation. In contrast to Kaluza-Klein theories, classical gravitation and gauge fields are unified in terms of induction of M^4xCP_2 metric and spinor structure. Standard model quantum numbers are understood in terms of isometry and holonomy groups apart from family replication. Baryon and lepton numbers correspond to different chiralities for H-spinors induced to space-time surface and quark and lepton numbers are separately conserved. The basic (not the only one) conformal invariance is naturally associated with metrically 2-dimensional light like causal determinants (call them X^3_l) which by the general coordinate invariance can be selected as representatives of 3-spaces. This conformal invariance implies effective 2-dimensionality: the physics is coded by certain 2-dimensional sections X^2 of X^3_l so that a formalism reduces to a form very reminiscent of conformal field theories. Family replication corresponds to the different genera (sphere, torus, etc.) for X^2 and there is an argument explaining why only the 3 lowest genera are realized. There are four books about TGD and its applications at http://www.physics.helsinki.fi/~matpitka/ . The chapter Overview about the Evolution of Quantum TGD explains the evolution of the ideas can be found at http://www.physics.helsinki.fi/~matpitka/tgd.htlm#tgdevo . Matti Pitkanen === Subject: Inßationary perturbations redux anyone here can help, much appreciated.... During inßation, as a wavenumber k crosses the horizon, the quantum field mode associated with momentum k is supposed to freeze in as a classical perturbation, right? So, it seems like that mode of the field operator collapses into one particular eigenstate. And, when the mode re-crosses the horizon later on, it doesnt return to behaving as a quantum ßuctuation - so the freezing seems to be irreversible. Does this mean that the freezing-in is like a measurement (in the sense of quantum mechanics), or is there another way to understand it? If it is a measurement, what does the measuring and when does it happen? If it isnt, then what am I getting wrong, above? ------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- This post submitted through the LaTeX-enabled physicsforums.com To view this post with LaTeX images: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=46098#post332935 === Subject: Re: Inßationary perturbations redux > So, it seems like that mode of the field operator collapses into one > particular eigenstate. And, when the mode re-crosses the horizon later on, > it doesnt return to behaving as a quantum ßuctuation - so the freezing > seems to be irreversible. I would like to hear a consistent and comprehensive description of this situation myself. In some sense, it seems likely to me that Redbulls description will be confirmed. When the mode crosses the horizon for the first time, it amounts to some sort of measurement that freezes the operator and converts it into a classical value. Once its classical, it behaves more or less deterministically and it cant unfreeze, so its not shocking that this process is irreversible. I also agree with Redbull that the key process is the freezing at the beginning, which is a sort of measurement. Is it legitimate to describe it in terms of decoherence - much like other quantum quantities that are becoming classical, and quantum probabilities (that interfere) becoming classical probabilities (that dont)? The quantum field is in a superposition before its wavelength expands, but some chosen classical values of the field are picked once the wavelength reaches the critical point. This seems to mean that the density matrix describing these modes should rapidly become pseudo-diagonal (in the basis of the classical states) near the critical moment, right? Otherwise we would face the usual Schrodinger cat questions - why is not the field projected into a superposition of classically distinct states, would not we? Now, such rapid diagonalization of the density matrix is usually justified by intense enough interactions with the environment - the environment performs a long series of measurements, and only when we trace over the degrees of freedom of the environment - that are uninteresting for us - we get a more or less diagonal density matrix (it is diagonal in the basis of states that can self-reproduce their information by evolution). It seems that in order to justify the measurement, we need to find some degrees of freedom of the environment - they are unlikely to be geometrically outside the system because we study a mode of the quantum field that fills the whole Universe. What are they? Well, they should probably be some modes inside the Universe, and moreover, the interaction between the freezing mode and the environmental degrees of freedom must be fast enough to make the measurement. The other possible scheme to explain the situation would be based on some kind of complementarity - the quantum field behind the horizon is not quite independent from the quantum field inside the horizon volume, which would modify something and allow the field to decohere, or something like that. Lubos, http://motls.blogspot.com/ _____________________________________________________________ _______________ __ E-mail: lumo@matfyz.cz fax: +1-617/496-0110 Web: http://lumo.matfyz.cz/ eFax: +1-801/454-1858 work: +1-617/384-9488 home: +1-617/868-4487 (call) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ === Subject: [Novice:] Speed of light Is speed of light constant = c in strings theory? === Subject: Administrivia: Welcome to sci.nanotech! Welcome to sci.nanotech, a moderated group for discussions related to the field of nanotechnology. IMPORTANT! Newcomers: BEFORE posting any questions, you should FIRST read the material concerning this newsgroup at the web site: This site contains answers to Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) as well as the posting policies. Since this is a moderated newsgroup, any postings not conforming to these policies are subject to rejection. interesting forum for talking about nanotechnology! === Subject: Re: Major breakthrough in nanotubes? A major barrier ahead of most commercial applications is that nanotubes are hard to separate, by their diameter, length and type. It stays in lab without those breakthroughs. -Luke > Ultralong single-wall carbon nanotubes. http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nmat/journal/ vaop/ncurrent/ abs/nmat1216.html&dynoptions=doi1096137264 > Extra-long carbon nanotubes set new record > A longer strand of tiny tough stuff. > The researchers have produced 4cm length single walled nanotubes. > They claim the method can be scaled to produce arbitrarily long > nanotubes. > Bob Clark === Subject: Alumina Etching I want to pattern an alumina substarate. Can any one suggest me an etchant and a masking material to do this? Nima === Subject: Carbon Nanotubes to Improve Fuel Cells (http://www.physorg.com/news1408.html) Quote: The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) awarded Carbon Nanotechnologies, Inc., Motorola, Inc. and Johnson Matthey Fuel Cells, Inc. a $3.6 million grant to develop free standing carbon nanotube electrodes for micro-fuel cells in order to meet the ever-growing demand for more power and longer run times in portable microelectronics. The Advanced Technology Program award from NIST supports a 3 year, $7.4 million project to exploit the unique properties of single wall carbon-nanotubes (SWNT) in order to achieve siginificant breakthroughs in fuel cell performance, durability and manufacturability. Sounds very promising! Especilly when those three giants get down to business... Your comments. === Subject: Re: Carbon Nanotubes to Improve Fuel Cells >(http://www.physorg.com/news1408.html) >Quote: The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) >awarded Carbon Nanotechnologies, Inc., Motorola, Inc. and Johnson >Matthey Fuel Cells, Inc. a $3.6 million grant to develop free >standing carbon nanotube electrodes for micro-fuel cells in order to >meet the ever-growing demand for more power and longer run times in >portable microelectronics. The Advanced Technology Program award from >NIST supports a 3 year, $7.4 million project to exploit the unique >properties of single wall carbon-nanotubes (SWNT) in order to achieve >siginificant breakthroughs in fuel cell performance, durability and >manufacturability. >Sounds very promising! Especilly when those three giants get down to >business... >Your comments. Theres sure a lot of sounds promising out there. Has been for quite a while now. $3.6 million, or $7.4 million over 3 years, are very tepid indications of faith. John === Subject: C240 icosahedron--twenty panels of four graphite CFUs each The file C240icosa.pdf shows how four graphite CFUs of three C-atoms each can join in the same manner as in a graphite crystal to form a triangular panel. Twenty panels can join to form a regular icosahedral assembly. The file can be downloaded at-- http://homepage.mac.com/whitby/Quasicrystals/FileSharing173. html === Subject: The Nanogirl News~ The Nanogirl News NSF funds nano-related coursework for grades 7-12. The National Science Foundation (NSF) has awarded a first-of-its-kind grant to a Northwestern University-led team to train teachers in nanotechnology and help them develop programs for middle and high schools. This is different from previous (NSF-funded) centers, which focus on research but have also done part-time outreach activity, said Mike Roco, senior nanotech adviser at NSF and an architect of the National Nanotechnology Initiative. NSF this week is expected to officially announce the five-year, $15-million award to Robert Chang, a professor in Northwesterns Department of Materials Science and Engineering. (/27/04) http://www.smalltimes.com/document_display.cfm?document_id= 8326 Autonomous Atom Assembly. The ability to use an STM to move and position atoms with lattice site precision provides us with a quantum workbench to study the effects of quantum confinement and the electronic structure of perfect nanostructures. So far, atomic manipulation has been performed manually, or with rudimentary computer assistance. We are working to extend this capability significantly by developing an Autonomous Atom Assembler (AAA). An autonomous atom assembler is an instrument capable of assembling a desired nanostructure from an unknown random collection of atoms without human intervention. (NIST 8/04) http://physics.nist.gov/Divisions/Div841/Gp3/Projects/STM/aaa _proj.html (Event) Foresight Institute Conference Tackles Nanotechnology Applications and Public Policy. Foresight Institute, the leading nanotechnology education and public policy think tank, is sponsoring the 1st Conference on Advanced the Crystal City Marriott Hotel, Washington DC area. This conference focuses on molecular nanotechnology and what it will mean for the environment, water purification, clean energy, medicine, national security, space exploration, international competitiveness, zero-waste manufacturing and overall societal impacts and other areas. (TMCnet 10/7/04) High-tech tweezers enable nano-assembly lines. This technique makes possible nano-assembly lines, said Chicago entrepreneur Lewis Gruber. You can use it to put things together, twist them, rotate them, fix things in locations at the microscopic or atomic level. It makes possible, for the first time, a factory ßoor under the microscope capable of manufacturing components and assembling them into products at high throughput, just as is done in the industrial world. (Chicago Sun Times 10/5/04) http://www.suntimes.com/output/business/cst-fin-cia05arryx.html Buckyballs at Bat: Toxic nanomaterials get a tune-up. Over the past decade, the development of nanomaterials has progressed rapidly toward their eventual use in products ranging from solar cells to medicines. However, tests of possible toxic effects of these substances on human health and the environment have been slow to get under way. Recently, an experiment raised concern about the soccer-ball-shaped carbon molecules commonly known as buckyballs. Now, other chemists confirm that finding and report an innovation that might disarm potentially toxic buckyballs. Nano AIDS shield given a boost. What could be the worlds first nanotechnology-based protection against HIV has just been given a huge boost. The Australian biotechnology company Starpharma announced today it had been granted US$5.4 million (A$7.5 million) from the US National Institutes of Health (NIH) for its research on an anti-microbial gel which prevents HIV infection of cells. (ABCnet 9/30/04) http://abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1210693.htm In Search of a Biosensing Biocide. Simple compound is eyed as a lead to a chemical/biological counteragent. Imagine this: a simple lipid molecule forms a bilayer, the bilayers curl up to form nanotubes, and bunches of nanotubes assemble into a nanocarpet. Furthermore, the nanotubes respond to different substances by changing color, and they kill bacteria to boot! No need to imagine all this--such a molecule has been synthesized, and its remarkable capabilities have been explored by a team at the University of Pittsburgh led by Alan J. Russell, a professor of surgery and of chemical and bioengineering [J. Am. Chem. Soc., published online Sept. 24. (C&E News 10/4/04) http://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/8240/8240notw2.html Researchers at Los Alamos National Laboratory, the University of Arizona and Cornell University, all in the US, have made a superhard phase of carbon by applying pressure to carbon nanotubes. The material was at least as hard as cubic diamond and retained its properties at room temperature even when the pressure was removed. (nanotechweb 8/23/04) Nanotubes work like radio antennas to convert light into electricity. Radio aerials have been around for over a century, and routinely receive information carried by radio waves into our homes. Now, finally, scientists have built an aerial that can do the same for light waves. The tiny antennas could be used in solar cells, or Ôoptical computers that would move data round as light beams. (Nature news 8/20/04) National Cancer Institute Symposium to be Part of NANO Week. The National Cancer Institute (NCI), part of the National Institutes of Health (NIH), will present a symposium on the role of nanotechnology in the diagnosis and treatment of cancer Oct. 27 as part of NANO Week. The program, Overcoming Barriers to Collaboration, will be held at the InterContinental Hotel and MBNA Conference Center on The Cleveland Clinic Foundation campus. It is free to attend, but space is limited to 200 registrants. (Yahoo 9/21/04) http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040921/cltu089_1.html Physicists Create Artificial Molecule On A Chip. Using integrated circuit fabrication techniques, a team of researchers from Yale University has bound a single photon to a superconducting device engineered to behave like a single atom, forming an artificial molecule. Its the first experimental result in a field Yale professors Robert Schoelkopf and Steven Girvin have dubbed circuit quantum electrodynamics. (photonics 8/24/04) Researchers demonstrate nanoscale self-assembly. A new processing technique developed by Cornell University researchers promises to usher in lithographic-like self-assembly into single and multidimensional nanoscale structures. The technique enabled 10-nm precision lithography. One-, two- and three-dimensional nanoscale structures self-assembled by combining a block copolymer with a cascade molecule called a dendrimer in which atoms are arrayed along a carbon backbone, the researchers said. (EETimes 9/9/04) Magic clusters double up. Theoretical physicists in Italy and France have discovered a new family of magic clusters using computer simulations. The clusters, which consist of a nickel or copper core surrounded by silver atoms, display high levels of structural, thermodynamic and electronic stability. The silver-nickel structures are also magnetic (G Rossi et al. Good Vibrations in the Nanoworld. Local defects tune the vibrational modes of carbon nanotubes. Accessing vibrational modes of molecular chains at the site of a specific atom in molecules is no longer a dream. Using a scanning tunneling microscopy technique, the vibrational modes of carbon nanotubes have been mapped with sub-nanometer spatial resolution. This allows the study of the role of local defects and demonstrates the crucial importance of nanotubes for the electronic and mechanical properties of nanotubes. (Max Planck Society 8/27/04) Nanotechnology research funding list now live at Sandia/LANL CINT website. Shortcut to funding sources now available. Nanotech researchers can shorten their search for funding by visiting the Center for Integrated Nanotechnologies (CINT) Internet site (www.sandia.gov/cint or www.lanl.gov/cint). There, a searchable database of federal government nanotechnology funding sources is supplied as a service to the nanoscience community by CINT, a joint project of Sandia and Los Alamos national laboratories supported by the U.S. Department of Energys Office of Science. (Sandia 9/30/04) Get set for nanotech. Nanotechnology is being called many things: A massive investment opportunity; an incredibly promising next generation electronics technology, and even a threat to humanity. For the electronics sector, fabrication of chips with nanoscale (nm) features is becoming routine. Yet while semiconductor manufacturing is dealing in nanometres, it too is still to be affected by true nanotechnology - or more accurately molecular nanotechnology. Molecular nanotechnology (referred to as nanotechnology for one atom at a time. (Ferret 9/27/04) (ETC again) Nanotech Ôthreatens markets for poor nations goods. The introduction of nanotechnologies could threaten markets for goods from developing countries, according to a presentation made yesterday at the 4th World Conference of Science Journalists in Montreal, Canada. The claim was made by Pat Mooney, executive director of the ETC Group, a Canadian organization that researches the socio-economic impacts of new technologies. Highlighting the lack of regulation for emerging technologies, Mooney called for a United Nations convention to evaluate their impacts, not only on health and the environment but also on society at large. (SciDev 10/7/04) http://www.scidev.net/news/index.cfm?fuseaction=readnews& itemid=1647&languag e=1 Kurzweils Quest For Eternal Youth Sets Group Abuzz. Inventor Ray Kurzweil takes 250 nutritional supplements a day in his quest to live long enough to reap the benefits he expects from biotechnology. He says hes trying to reprogram his body, as he would his computer...And health is a theme Kurzweil returned to repeatedly; it is the subject of his latest book, Fantastic Voyage: Live Long Enough to Live Forever, co-authored with medical doctor Terry Grossman. But it was his broader vision of how biology, nanotechnology and information science are merging that set the backdrop for the conference, which brought together nearly 1,000 scientists and executives from various disciplines to peer into the future. (Washington Post 10/7/04) $10 million to establish a multidisciplinary research program in cancer nanotechnology. The National Institutes of Health (NIH) has awarded scientists from Emory University and the Georgia Institute of Technology two new collaborative research grants, totaling nearly $10 million, to establish a multidisciplinary research program in cancer nanotechnology and to develop (News-Medical.net 10/6/04) http://www.news-medical.net/?id=5380 Rice Finds ÔOn-Off Switch For Buckyball Toxicity. Researchers at Rice Universitys Center for Biological and Environmental Nanotechnology (CBEN) have demonstrated a simple way to reduce the toxicity of water-soluble buckyballs by a factor of more than ten million. The research will appear in an upcoming issue of the journal Nano Letters, published by the American Chemical Society, the worlds largest scientific society. One of the first toxicological studies of buckyballs, the research was published online by the journal on Sept. 11. (Sciencedaily 10/6/04) Carbon Nanotechnologies Inc. -- CNI -- Announces the Issue of a U.S. Patent for Composites Containing Single-Wall Carbon Nanotubes. Carbon Nanotechnologies, Inc (CNI) announced today the issue of U.S. Patent 6,790,425 B1 for both pure and composite materials containing derivitized single-wall carbon nanotubes in substantial alignment with one another. This patent paves the way for commercial products with superior performance characteristics, such as plastics with electrical conductivity, improved fibers for bullet-proof vests, plastic parts that are stronger and longer lasting, and ßat panel TVs and displays which are brighter, longer lasting, and consume less energy. This technology is part of the intellectual property developed by Nobel-Prize winning scientist Dr. Richard Smalley and licensed exclusively to CNI by Rice University in 2001. (BusinessWire 9/5/04) Nanomaterials break out of laboratory into marketplace. Miniature medical machines that can bring sight to the blind and computers that work at the speed of light are no longer the stuff of futuristic novels. Argonne National Laboratory researchers are creating nanomaterials and nanotechnology to make these and other innovations possible, and collaborating with industry to bring new technologies to the marketplace. (nanotechwire 10/4/04) http://nanotechwire.com/news.asp?nid=1166 Gates Backs Education for Tech Growth. Microsoft mogul Bill Gates told hundreds of engineering students Friday that the future of technology could open the door for much more innovative applications than those of the past decade, but the key to further advancements lies in the strength of higher education. In Zellerbach Hall, Gates said that while the last 20 years have seen vast advances in personal computing and communications technology, we can expect to see more developments intertwined with other fields in the future, such as biotechnology and nanotechnology. (The Daily Californian Presidential Candidates Speak Out on Science Policies. With the exception of the debate over stem-cell research, science remains a background topic in the current campaign. Democratic candidate John Kerry has occasionally highlighted US science policy and used it against President Bush, charging that the administration has put politics and ideology ahead of science. Let scientists do science again, a headline on the Kerry election website says. Bush has responded, primarily through his science adviser, John Marburger, by pointing to the 44% increase in federal R&D since fiscal year 2001 and the record $132 billion in the administrations FY 2005 R&D budget. Kerry ignores President Bushs record science investments, reads a headline on the Bush reelection website. Kerry answers by noting that most of the R&D money is going for weapons systems and defense spending related to the war in Iraq, not basic science programs. Marburger and other administration officials point to several R&D initiatives, including new nanotechnology centers, the Moon/Mars space initiative, and the program to develop hydrogen fuel technology. (Physics Today 10/3/04) http://www.physicstoday.org/vol-57/iss-10/p28.html Tiny battlefield in the war on disease Devices as small as genes detect, search a blood sample for signs of illness, human cells would seem as big as size: prostate specific antigen, or PSA, a signal that prostate cancer may be on its way to returning - long before it actually does. Welcome to the new frontier of nanotechnology, where scientists are learning how to make super-small devices - as small as genes and proteins - to diagnose diseases that remain unseen with present equipment and to provide treatments tailored there are as few as 10 molecules of PSA present they will find them, said Chad Mirkin, director of Northwestern Universitys Institute for Nanotechnology. The current test would need 10 million molecules of PSA to record a positive reading. (Monterey Herald 10/1/04) http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/news/nation/ 9809270.htm Gina Nanogirl Miller Nanotechnology Industries http://www.nanoindustries.com Personal: http://www.nanogirl.com/index2.html Foresight Senior Associate http://www.foresight.org Nanotechnology Advisor Extropy Institute http://www.extropy.org Tech-Aid Advisor http://www.tech-aid.info/t/all-about.html Email: nanogirl@halcyon.com Nanotechnology: Solutions for the future. === Subject: STS DRIE profile I am trying to run a process using a STS DRIE system in our lab. I have a photoresist layer as a mask, and need to etch to a depth of 6-10 microns. I would like the side walls to be tapered, such that there is no undercutting at the top, minimal shadowing along the edge, and the taper angle is on the (gross) order of 20 to 30 degrees from the substrate normal. Do you know how I might mess around with the parameters (power, ßow, passivation/etch %) to achieve this result? Brian. === Subject: Administrivia: Welcome to sci.nanotech! Welcome to sci.nanotech, a moderated group for discussions related to the field of nanotechnology. IMPORTANT! Newcomers: BEFORE posting any questions, you should FIRST read the material concerning this newsgroup at the web site: This site contains answers to Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) as well as the posting policies. Since this is a moderated newsgroup, any postings not conforming to these policies are subject to rejection. interesting forum for talking about nanotechnology! === Subject: 2nd CFV: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe Supersedes: <1096472034.3960@isc.org> Archive-Name: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe iD8DBQFBataXXMotZRinPKkRApYqAKChNB0N+Xfa+ cKBOH9keH9ogYHcAACcC4yI 0MQmwWAQCkTuI409GiBChwM= =vLVp LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2) unmoderated group sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe Newsgroups line: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe Scanning probe microscopy. This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent. Proponent: Jim Logajan Proponent: Thom Borton Proponent: Gordon Vrdoljak Votetaker: Bill Aten RATIONALE: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum for the discussion of techniques and current research of scanning probe microscopy. The newsgroup sci.techniques.microscopy has become a de facto forum for discussion of optical microscopy, which has little in common with scanning probe microscopy. Currently, a private mailing list of one SPM vendor has a good amount of activity, with an active membership of a couple thousand users and an average of several daily postings. And the field continues to grow, both in users and vendors. The group will provide the SPM community a forum that is more publicly accessible and easier to read (e.g. direct support for threads) than the privately subscribed mailing list. The advent of feature rich web searchable archives by entities such as Google Groups is another advantage of using Usenet over that of a private list. Usenets inherently distributed nature makes multiple archives both possible and likely, while the same is not so easily done with a private mailing list. The current mailing list is run by the leading microscope manufacturer and has provided the scanning probe community a great public service, for which they must be commended. Postings on issues about systems from other companies or from the large community of researchers who built their own microscopes do come up occasionally, yet many more in the community have not thought of subscribing to the mailing list - either because they are unaware of it, believe it focuses only on that manufacturers equipment, or disagree with its list of banned topics (such as comparisons or reviews of competitive equipment or relevant job postings from commercial entities). An unmoderated newsgroup would attract a much wider audience to share information and would complement the existing mailing list. that such a group is likely to receive can be estimated by reviewing the Google Groups archive of the nearest relevant newsgroup, sci.techniques.microscopy newsgroup: even irritation is a subjective issue, but relative to regular e-mail, a ~2% rate may be considered quite low. CHARTER: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe This group is an open forum for the discussion of techniques, theory, instrumentation, and research in the use of scanning probe microscopes. Such technologies include any form of microscopy that involves the scanning of a probe close to a surface. This includes, but is not limited to: atomic force microscopy (AFM), scanning tunneling microscopy (STM), magnetic force microscopy (MFM), chemical force microscopy (CFM), lateral force microscopy (LFM), and near field scanning optical microscopy (NSOM or SNOM). 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The individual listed below will need to revote from a valid email address prior to the poll closing in order to correct this problem. ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- -- jhausch [at] cis.fu-berlin.de Jens Hauschild -- Bill Aten, UVV === Subject: Psychic Phenomena - Free eBooks Scientific and philosophic spiritualism, also known as Christian Rationalism - NOT RELIGION, is a philosophy that deals with a wide variety of issues. Many regard it as a spiritualistic science and not a dogmatic doctrine.. A few digital BOOKS are available FREE OF CHARGE from the following site: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/4678 The eBooks deal with: Physical & Psychic Phenomena, Philosophical & Psychological issues, Reincarnation, Incorporeal Life, Space & the Universe, the Power of Thought, Mediumnity, Evolution, Gods & Religions, Force & Matter, the Aura, Ethics, Psychic Cleansing (meditation), Dreams, Family & Children, etc. Why do we live ? æ What is God ?æ Who am I ? Where did I come from ? Where do I go to ?æ Why do we suffer ?æ How to be happy?æ What is mediumnity ?æ What is obsession ?æ What is psychic cleansing?æ What is the main problem of life ?æ ææ What is thought ?æ What is courage ?, etc. Feedback on the books are welcome ! NOTE: if you prefer we can send you books via E-Mail. CR ------------------------------------------------------------- ---- === Subject: ranking books on alternative science Hi I am trying to find the best books on alternative science. I would be a great help if you would go to http://all-technology.com/eigenpolls/asbooks/ and rank the books your have read. === Subject: eogd homsi robert zink teaches psychic phenomena The Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn will teach you from first hand experience not just that psychic phenomena exists, but also how we as individuals can master the art of psychic phenomena. Why not visit our website at: http://www.mystic-mysteries-magic.com/ and find out how psychic phenomena can work for you to empower you to master yourself and all, which falls within your sphere of sensation. === Subject: Announcement =?windows-1252?Q?=96_New_Paranormal_Directory?= Please visit ParanormalNet at http://www.paranormalnet.com/ Paranormal directory with links to websites on Aliens, UFOs, Conspiracies, Ancient Civilizations, Government Secrets, Prophecies, Miracles, Crop Circles, Ghosts, Cryptozoology, Newsletters, Parapsychology, Portals, Predictions, Radio Shows, Science & Technology, and more. List your website here today! A. Gowri admin@paranormalnet.com -- ParanormalNet The ParanormalDirectory http://www.paranormalnet.com/ admin@paranormalnet.com === Subject: Quantum cosmology What is your opinion on the theories propounded by Anna Hayes with regard to the structure of the universe? Do you consider that her ideas of Ôparticum and Ôpartici as the fundamental energy/matter interface hold any weight? -- Om Shanti Shanti Shanti (Om Peace Peace Peace) === Subject: Re: Quantum cosmology > What is your opinion on the theories propounded by Anna Hayes with > regard to the structure of the universe? I think they are of no relevance to sci.military.naval Keith === Subject: Re: Quantum cosmology >> What is your opinion on the theories propounded by Anna Hayes with >> regard to the structure of the universe? > I think they are of no relevance to sci.military.naval Im surprised he didnt post it to sci.skeptic. tim gueguen 101867 === Subject: Re: Quantum cosmology > What is your opinion on the theories propounded by Anna Hayes with > regard to the structure of the universe? > Do you consider that her ideas of Ôparticum and Ôpartici as the > fundamental energy/matter interface hold any weight? Typical crank abduction rubbish - at least if it is the Anna Hayes I know of. Bill > -- > Om Shanti Shanti Shanti (Om Peace Peace Peace) === Subject: Re: Cluster Decomposition > Cluster decomposition means essentally that you cannot > happens on the moon is irrelevant to experiments on > the earth (except those depending on moonshine). > Cluster decomposition is the basis of all physics. One thing perplexes me about the cluster decomposition principle. Its self-evidently true for interactions that become weaker with distance, but what about QCD which gets stronger with distance? === Subject: Re: Diffeomorphisms, LQG, and positive energy > You mean with unitarity a Ôunitary representation of a symmetry group. > Unitary representations are of course necessary to have a consistent > quantum mechanics, but this is an issue completely separate from > properties of the S-matrix. > So Rovellis statement Ô there is no sense in which conventional > unitarity is necessary in the theory and your statements, amounting to > Ôunitary representations are needed to have a sound probability > interpretation are not contradictory. Hm, I dont understand the distinction. Im mainly thinking of groups of spacetime symmetries which contain the Hamiltonian as a generator, especially the Poincare and diffeomorphism groups. A unitary representation of such a group means that time evolution is unitary, no? Isnt this more or less the same thing as preserving probabilities? === Subject: Re: Diffeomorphisms, LQG, and positive energy ... > However, there is one well-known case where we know how to combine > locality and diff invariance with quantum theory: conformal field > theory. CFT is usually thought of as a theory of conformally invariant > QFT in 2D, but since the local conformal group is the same as (twice) > the diffeomorphism group in 1D, it is also about diff invariant QFT in > 1D. Locality means that the correlation functions depend on separation. > For two points z and w in R or C, the correlator is > < phi(z) phi(w) > ~ 1/(z-w)^{2h} + more, > where more stands for less singular terms when z -> w. That the > correlation function has this form is a diff-invariant statement. The > more terms will change under an arbitary diffeomorphism, but the > leading singularity will always have the same form, and in particular > the anomalous dimension h is well defined. > We can phrase this slightly differently. The short-distance singularity > only depends on two points being infinitesimally close. This is good, > because we cannot determine the finite distance between two points > without knowing about the metric. GR does not have a background metric > structure, but it does have a background differentiable structure > (locally at least), and that is enough for defining anomalous > dimensions. Diffemorphisms move points around, but they dont separate > two points which are infinitesimally close. > There is a well-known theorem which states that all correlation > functions in general relativity are trivial, which is easy to prove by > moving points. How can CFT by compatible with this theorem? Well, it > isnt. The relevant algebra in CFT is not really the 1D diffeomorphism > algebra (or the 2D conformal algebra), but its central extension known > as the Virasoro algebra: > [L_m, L_n] = (n-m) L_m+n - c/12 (m^3 - m) delta_m+n. > A lowest-energy representation is characterized by a vacuum satisfying > L_0 |vac> = h |vac>, L_m |vac> = 0 for all m < 0. > In particular, the lowest L_0 eigenvalue can be identified with the > anomalous dimension h in the correlation function above. So the lowest energy value is well defined as a diff invariant by the leading term of the Laurent expansion above. This is pretty cool. I wonder whether the lowest energy value may correspond to a correlators singularity diff invariant in higher dimensions too. Or maybe requiring invariance imposes a constraint on admissible diffeomorphisms in higher dimensions? ... > There are various ways to handle quantization of gauge systems. One is > to eliminate the gauge degrees of freedom first and then quantize. This > is cumbersome and people usually prefer to quantize first and then > eliminate the gauge symmetries. I doubt that the two approaches are physically equivalent. > The simplest way, although not the best, > is to require that the gauge generators annihilate physical states, > J^a |phys> = 0, > and also that two physical states are equivalent if the differ by some > gauge state, J^a |>. This procedure gives you a nice Hilbert space of > physical states. > However, one thing may go terribly wrong. Upon quantization, a > symmetry may acquire some quantum corrections, so that g is replaced by > [J^a, J^b] = f^ab_c J^c + hbar D^ab + O(hbar^2). > The operator D^ab is called an *anomaly*. We can also have anomalies of > the type > [J^a, H] = C^a_b J^b + hbar E^a + O(hbar^2). > If we now try to keep the definition of a physical state, we see that > we must also require that > D^ab |phys> = 0. > This implies further reduction of the Hilbert space. In the case that > D^ab is invertible, it means that there are no physical states at all, > so the Hilbert space is empty. This is obviously not good. I wonder whats the physical meaning of D^abs invertibility or lack thereof. Is it a thermodynamic condition on quantisation (i.e. on measurement)? > However, it > does not necessarily mean that the anomaly by itself is inconsistent, > only that our definition of physical states is. In the presence of an > anomaly, additional states become physical. So our Hilbert space > becomes bigger, containing some, or even all, of the previous gauge > degrees of freedom. ... > With diffemorphism symmetry, the extra degrees of freedom are the > components of the observers trajectory. To learn something about a > or observer, into the system. In classical physics this does not affect > it will not change the solution to Einsteins equation. In quantum > remarkable that the mathematics knows that we need an observer, because > the anomaly is a functional of the observers trajectory. This sounds like recovering physical states as degrees of freedom of observers trajectories, i.e. as measurement outcomes. I like it. Anyways, great post for this reader. IV === Subject: Re: photodetector coincidence or anticoincidence ? Received-SPF: Received-SPF: none (mailbox1.ucsd.edu: domain oz@farmeroz.port995.com does not list relay hosts) [NB I reply to Patricks post at the end] >I am also not an expert on quantum optics. But for this, look at >Davis and Mandel, in _Coherence and Quantum Optics_ (ed. Mandel and >Wolf, 1973). This is a very careful observation of ``prompt >electrons in the photoelectric effect, that is, electrons emitted >before there would be time, in a wave model, for enough energy to >build up (even over the entire cathode!) to overcome the potential >barrier. The experiment shows that the energy is *not* delivered >continuously to a photodetector, and that this cannot be explained >solely by detector properties unless one is prepared to give up >energy conservation. Oh no! Im not concerned that emissions are not continuous (in the sense that electrons are emitted randomly) that fits my model. I do have a problem with photons emitted before enough energy had been dumped into the detector. Let me think about this for a minute.... OK. Consider this: 1) A very low amplitude light beam. Lets say it is equivalent to one emitted electron/minute. 2) The photodetector operates a shutter that cuts off the light beam as soon as an electron is detected. In this scenario we can have two options: a) No electrons are detected until about enough energy is deposited in the detector. b) Electrons are emitted even though not enough energy appears to have been transferred to the detector. I do have a horrible feeling that (b) is not unreasonable but would depend on the *source*. The entire system is in fact source -> em wave -> detector The source will have a characteristic emission time. That is each atom will take some number of nanosecs to emit a packet of em wave and so the attenuated wave is in fact a series of packets of length (in time) characterised by the source. In this case its easy to see that electron emission will not follow the apparent average intensity, but depend on the packet size. So thats dealt with. Now, if this also happens with a long-coherence-length laser (and it may well do so) then the above argument will in part fail. I assume that it is known that the electric field of such a laser, when attenuated to these very low levels, is in fact of constant amplitude and does not in practice ßuctuate significantly. I suspect that it might because its generated by a large number of atoms in the laser, each of which deposits a wavepacket in phase and the total averages to a laser beam of very highly constant amplitude. This could of course be measured by seeing if the diffraction pattern of such a laser degrades slightly at extreme attenuation. I imagine this work was done decades ago. I have a nasty feeling that its been found that it doesnt. In that case I have to take my argument further (this post is too long, if need be I will do so later). Compared to a photomultiplier, it is. However, it is no issue if you do coincidence counting, because the probability of generating coincidences of dark counts is extremely low (in a time window of 10ns, you have a probability of 3.0 10^(-6) to have another spurious hit), so as long as youre not looking at precisions of that order, youre fine... In my model of a detector this level of dark counts is a worry. I model a detector as a large number of resonant systems that have an energy gap and a detection occurs when an electron (in this case) jumps the gap due to energy from the incident em wave. The em wave and all the atoms in the detector are taken to become entangled. The high dark current implies that these systems are already rather excited to the extent that a number jump the gap spontaneously. One would thus expect, purely from maxwell, that an incident em field at the right frequency would cause a small increase in this spontaneous jumping with the energy largely provided from the circuit. That is it would be similar to heating the device, which does much the same thing (but given the frequency range, less efficiently). -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. functions]. BTOPENWORLD address has ceased. DEMON address has ceased. === Subject: Re: How To Rotate Fermions? > Hello everyone > Ive been reading the following paper: > Observability of the Sign Change of Spinors under 2Pi Rotations, > Y. Aharanov and L. Susskind, > Physical Review vol 158 (pp1237-1238) > It dicusses a thought experiment where theres an electron in a box that > has a partition in the middle. There is a constant magnetic field of the > same magnitude and direction in each compartment of the box. The > partition has a hole with a shutter in it so one can choose to close the > shutter, seperate the two halves of the box, turn one half of the box by > 2Pi odd number of times and then put them together again before opening > the shutter to allow for interference due to the possible minus sign > aquired. > My question is how do we know turning the box also turns the electron? > There is a magnetic field present - that does help to turn the > electron when were turning the box, in addition to the spin precession > that an electron would experience even when the box is not being turned? > Even for electrons in a conductor say - the paper above goes on to > discuss a situation involving tunneling current (which I dont > understand fully) - does rotating a given conductor rotate the > electrons in it? > to think about whether one is rotating it. On a related note in > Sakurais Modern Quantum Mechanics text he uses the spin precession of > neutrons to illustrate that rotations of 2Pi give rise to a minus sign, > but I really dont understand how one can equate spin precession in a > magnetic field and the actual rotation of the fermions themselves, > unless we postulate theres some sort of equivalence principle between > the two. > Yi-Zen point to rotate. Instead, it is the wave function that is rotated by a phase factor exp(ia), where a is the angle of rotation. For bosons, this phase rotation resembles ordinary planar rotation in that the wave function returns to its orginal state after going through 2pi radians. For fermions, however, the angles are essentially halved (i.e a becomes a/2), which is a consequence of spinor analysis. Thus, for a = 2pi, we only have an effective rotation of pi and exp(i*pi) = -1, so a rotation of 2pi corresponds to an inversion of the wave function. Thats also why you need to go around twice (a = 4pi) to get back to where you started at a = 0. === Subject: Re: How To Rotate Fermions? posting-account=B25dZA0AAAAxs4iqKuIMXwEP9O0c2cJ5 how > to think about whether one is rotating it. On a related note in > Sakurais Modern Quantum Mechanics text he uses the spin precession of > neutrons to illustrate that rotations of 2Pi give rise to a minus sign, > but I really dont understand how one can equate spin precession in a > magnetic field and the actual rotation of the fermions themselves, > unless we postulate theres some sort of equivalence principle between > the two. As far as I understand it, there is, although the postulate is really dependent on experiments measuring the intrinsic angular momentum (spin). This subtle point has bothered me for some time as well actually. Maybe it should be completely obvious sometimes but in QM books it is seldom explicitely stated what facts are empirically arrived at and which are predicted, and if there are other classes of solutions equally useable although experimentally falsified. In this case, for example in Shankar, Principles of Quantum Mechanics two things - rotating the field values in space, but also transform the field components into each other (with the suitable matrix called S). The underlying assumptions on why the latter is necessary are absent however - my guess is them being 1) that the wave function components have a relation at all and are not independent scalar fields and 2) that the wave function relations are related to normal 3D space so that rotations in the latter will need rotations in the former. In the electrons case, the wave function components are related in that they consist of representations of the SU(2) group and that rotations in this group correspond to rotations of space. The SU(2) components might as well have been in some sort of completely internal space though (for example the electron/neutrino SU(2) symmetry does not rotate with spatial rotations..), it is the experiments which ultimately decide what degree of spin a field has and that it is connected to angular momentum. Id be happy if someone could correct or comment on this understanding (or maybe rather non-understanding!).. like I said its a subtle point that has been bugging me. /Bjorn === Subject: decay rate of Zo boson The decay rate of a Zo boson is proportional to the number of different kinds of neutrinos.But does each neutrino species contribute equally to the decay rate:does each kind of neutrino give a contribution of 1/3 the total decay rate.If this is the case, how was it proved? === Subject: Re: Simple books on 4-vectors >The problem I have is that nobody has ever gone into the simple >operations of doing stuff in (3+1)D here. That is the step BEFORE what >we are discussing above. To start I need to do simple *newtonian* >collision mechanics in (3+1)D. Its a good thing to do static stuff and >non-differential stuff FIRST, so one has a decent *basic elementary* >grounding in the techniques. Start here: http://modelingnts.la.asu.edu/pdf/PrimerGeometricAlgebra.pdf This is stuff that high-school students have the capability to learn, understand and use. === Subject: Re: Interference even with long interferometers >>If we assume that a photons wave is only one wavelength long, how is >>it that we see interference patterns emerge when only one photon is in >>the apparatus at a time? The waves should only intersect in space at the >>middle point between the two slits and nowhere else. If we assume that >>a photons wave is many wavelengths long, then how long is it, exactly? > The conclusion is that a photon is a wave, essentially maxwellian in > form. how we see the interference we do, even if we just stick with waves. Lets forget about photons for a moment, if we can, and just consider the Maxwellian wave generated by a single electron that drops its orbital. Since the electron doesnt jitter back and forth when it makes its transition, can we assume that the resulting Maxwellian wave is no more than one wavelength long? (Maybe it does jitter, I dont know.) Now, *if* the Maxwellian wave is just one wavelength long, then consider what happens with the two waves that are created when it passes through the double slits. The left wave will come in contact with the left side of the detector and be absorbed long before the right wave will reach the left side of the detector. Likewise for the right wave with the right side of the detector. In fact, the only place where the detector will come in contact with the two waves as they are interfering with each other is somewhere between the two slits. So how is it that we see an interference pattern along the entire width of the detector? Shouldnt we only see such an interference pattern when there is a continuous standing wave? > That is in almost all circumstances we have an incident wave of *far* > too low an intensity to cause the jumping of the energy gap, but if the > resonant frequency Ôof the gap and the frequency of the incident light > is *nearly right* then energy gets stored in the system until it either > causes a jump in the energy gap, or the light/energy is re-radiated > away. That reminds me of another question that I probably shouldnt get into here. If an electron requires a photon with energy = fh to jump one orbital and a photon with energy, say, = 1.7fh to jump two orbitals, what happens when it encounters a photon with 1.5f? Does it jump one orbital and somehow bleed off the remaining 0.5fh energy, or does it just ignore the photon? Or are electron orbitals stacked in such a way that this would never happen? -- Michael Hobbs === Subject: Re: Interference even with long interferometers > Quantumlike properties arise from quantumlike systems. All detectors are > quantumlike, they *require* an energy gap to function. Its thus > unsurprising that when photons (ie light) interact with detectors they > inevitably show quantumlike effects, these are due to the detector. > That is in almost all circumstances we have an incident wave of *far* > too low an intensity to cause the jumping of the energy gap, but if the > resonant frequency Ôof the gap and the frequency of the incident light > is *nearly right* then energy gets stored in the system until it either > causes a jump in the energy gap, or the light/energy is re-radiated > away. Then how do you explain the fact that when low-intensity light starts shining on a photocell, electrons sometimes appear before the wave has time classically to transfer a photons-worth of energy to the photocell? The standard explanation works well: the photon is as likely to appear in the front of the wave pulse as at the back. -- Maurice Barnhill Department of Physics and Astronomy University of Delaware Newark, DE 19716 === Subject: Re: Two EPR questions > The trick is that there is ONE true measurement apparatus in this > universe, namely my personal consciousness, and only mine, and it is > my own observation which makes the collapse. > Im sure they must have had this exact same argument after painters > discovered perspective: [...] > The analogy my not be perfect, but its pretty good. In fact I think your analogy is very good, and it seems to me that the way we have quantum theory right now gives the wave function this intermediate character, namely it is on one hand part of a reality, and on the other hand it describes the relationship between the observer and nature, in a very close analogy to your description of perspective. Im not particularly keen on my explanation, but I wanted to point out that it solves the following issues: 1) it preserves the so-cherished locality: the EPR paradox disappears because it is only upon the local comparison that the measurements introduce two spacelike separated true measurements, there is no way in which you cannot violate locality. The only way to make sure you dont is by having only ONE measurement. 2) it preserves Borns rule, which is difficult (I think even impossible) to deduce from hard relative-state interpretations. 3) it defines exactly what *IS* a measurement, and it is (at least to me) somehow comforting that this quantummechanical definition of measurement (which is an ultimately subjective experience) coincides with an epistemological definition of conscious observation as the ultimate and only source of knowledge (in the sense of I think therefor I am). After all, there is NO WAY for me to find out that you, or anything else, has a consciousness. In the same way, there is no way for me to find out whether you collapsed the wavefunction, or whether you only decohered in the same branch as I. So the hard problem of consiousness in philosophy finds finally its counterpart in physics. I find this attractive as an idea. But there are two reasons to be wary of it: first of all, I think that it is a bad idea to do philosophy based upon a certain state of knowledge of physical laws ; after all, a lot of philosophy was uselessly inspired by a deterministic and mechanistic view of the universe a few centuries ago. And second, it lets go too much reality. But it is the price I prefer to pay. So it is only here as long as quantum mechanics in its current state is here, but in the mean time it gives me peace of mind with it. I never found another explanation that didnt have a serious problem somewhere which I couldnt accept (such as this half-baked locality, or the undefiniteness of what constitutes a measurement). cheers, Patrick. === Subject: Purpose of theoretical physics - Was Whats wrong with loop QG > This is the whole > purpose of theoretical physics, to be reducing the number of independent > ingredients that are necessary to describe an increasing body of > observations! > I would disagree. The whole purpose of theoretical physics is to come > up with models that better and better describe and predict behavior > of the real physical world. The discovery of the Standard Model was a > remarkable scientific advance. That it simultaneously greatly > reduced the number of free parameters in our theories and greatly > increased the accuracy of our experimental predictions is due to the > amazing fact that all of our experiments back then (and nearly > all of our experiments even now) can be almost exactly described by a > quantum field theory with 19 free parameters. The belief that all > of physics can be described by a theory having even fewer parameters > is a profound (and probably philosophically unjustifiable) faith in > the simplicity of the laws of physics. Dont you guys think that the purpose of theoretical physics is about much more than making predictions; its about understanding them as well? Shouldnt your theory tell you exactly how a result comes out rather than just be a recipe for their quantities? Isnt a physical theory (a good one, anyway) more than a black box with mysterious knobs that, via tweaking, gives various outputs for various inputs? If a theory is only about prediction, i.e., knowing the outcome but not understanding exactly why (or even how) the outcome exists, then it is not much more than accounting. Is it not more engineering than science? === Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetism > This is going to sound like a very bizarre and possibly insane question, but > indulge me if you can. > > Ok, so I was thinking the other day: Would it be possible to write down a > set of differential equations for some field that, in ßat space, looks > kinda like EM, but it curved space has a gravity term/component? Sort of > like the way a magnetic field at zero velocity looks partially electric at 0 > < v < c. > > I know its a bit of an odd question, but I was curious as to how one would > contruct such a theory and what it would look like. Answers on a postcard > :p > Yes, here: > Online for free here: > http://cdsweb.cern.ch/search.py?recid=688763&ln=en > Feel free to ask questions here or by email (note: email in paper was > -drl I have a problem with it, (using Dovers PoR), Eq.(7) implies phi_u is a gradient. In Eq.(10) he takes the curl of phi_u, to define the EM field tensor, which, I think, vanishes ie. curl grad (scalar) =0 Do you see any problem with that? I hold other comments on your paper pending your reply. Ken S. Tucker === Subject: Nanotechnology X Prize Now that the X Prize is won, why not a new challenge? How about $1 billion to the first person or company to build a self-replicating assembler? === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology X Prize > Now that the X Prize is won, why not a new challenge? How about $1 billion > to the first person or company to build a self-replicating assembler? Do you think a prize for the hopefully simpler objective of an assembler for diamondoid objects would be sensible? I would be quite happy to have assembler components being built in a large factory, until we nail down the control issues, anyway. -- Rory McLean rory@romsys.demon.co.uk === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology X Prize >> Now that the X Prize is won, why not a new challenge? How about $1 >> billion >> to the first person or company to build a self-replicating assembler? > Do you think a prize for the hopefully simpler objective of an > assembler for diamondoid objects would be sensible? > I would be quite happy to have assembler components being built > in a large factory, until we nail down the control issues, > anyway. > -- > Rory McLean > rory@romsys.demon.co.uk Ok, how about a much more modest goal. Any machine that can replicate itself from raw materials regardless of size. Five year goal, $5 million prize. === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology X Prize >Ok, how about a much more modest goal. Any machine that can replicate itself >from raw materials regardless of size. Five year goal, $5 million prize. Were a lot more than 5 years from that being possible (unless youre willing to define complex components as raw materials, in which case the result wouldnt be useful). If youre serious about trying to drum up funding for this, heres the lesson Id take from the X prize - they offered it for _suborbital_ ßight, a reasonably attainable goal. Id pick some equivalent in nanotechnology, some small intermediate goal reasonably doable by a team of a few smart people working hard for a couple of years. -- Always look on the bright side of life. To reply by email, remove the small snack from address. === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology X Prize >>Ok, how about a much more modest goal. Any machine that can replicate >>itself from raw materials regardless of size. Five year goal, $5 >>million prize. > Were a lot more than 5 years from that being possible (unless youre > willing to define complex components as raw materials, in which case > the result wouldnt be useful). > If youre serious about trying to drum up funding for this, heres the > lesson Id take from the X prize - they offered it for _suborbital_ > ßight, a reasonably attainable goal. Id pick some equivalent in > nanotechnology, some small intermediate goal reasonably doable by a > team of a few smart people working hard for a couple of years. In my humble opinion, there are four things needed to accomplish MNT: tools, tools, tools, and good engineering. More precisely, tools as commodities with commodity pricing. That hasnt happened yet. Too many of the tools that are used are one-off, or were not designed for the uses to which they are put. Awards for the development of MNT-enabling commodity tools would be nice. === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology X Prize > In my humble opinion, there are four things needed to accomplish MNT: > tools, tools, tools, and good engineering. > More precisely, tools as commodities with commodity pricing. That hasnt > happened yet. Too many of the tools that are used are one-off, or were not > designed for the uses to which they are put. > Awards for the development of MNT-enabling commodity tools would be nice. Enh. Theres two reasons why commodity design tools are products of a maturing design community, and not the other way around. First is profit motive: Before the design community exists, no one ants to pay good money for software that designs things they arent designing. With no buyers, there is no commodity, almost by definition. The prize motif alleviates this somewhat, but its a matter of personal opinion if the prize motive would be enough to overcome this. The prize itself will not *create* a market, unlike SS1, which already has small market of tourists and a potentially large market of launch-buyers if they improve their vehicles. Second is sheer pragmatism: Before the design community exists and bangs around several design cycles, no one knows what a tool should look like. This really cant be helped by prizes. The prize commission would have to lay down specificatons in advance, and this leads to two problems: 1) The specs would have to be almost entirely theoretical, because, how do you test nanotech design software, without designing nanotech devices? 2) The prize commision doesnt know what constitutes a good nanotech design tool, either. No one does. So theres no gaurantee the tools would be useful. I think targetted prizes for defineable hardware goals are great, but Im not so enthusiastic about software design tools. My opinion might change if someone showed me a really good example, though. -- John S. Novak, III jsn@cegt201.bradley.edu The Humblest Man on the Net === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology X Prize >>Ok, how about a much more modest goal. Any machine that can replicate >>itself from raw materials regardless of size. Five year goal, $5 >>million prize. > > Were a lot more than 5 years from that being possible (unless youre > willing to define complex components as raw materials, in which case > the result wouldnt be useful). > > If youre serious about trying to drum up funding for this, heres the > lesson Id take from the X prize - they offered it for _suborbital_ > ßight, a reasonably attainable goal. Id pick some equivalent in > nanotechnology, some small intermediate goal reasonably doable by a > team of a few smart people working hard for a couple of years. > In my humble opinion, there are four things needed to accomplish MNT: > tools, tools, tools, and good engineering. > More precisely, tools as commodities with commodity pricing. That hasnt > happened yet. Too many of the tools that are used are one-off, or were not > designed for the uses to which they are put. > Awards for the development of MNT-enabling commodity tools would be nice. How close are we to being able to write the massively distributed, hierarchically controlled software to drive an assembler. With sufficient positional accuracy, and redundancy to handle failed assembly heads, and higher level failures, is an interesting question. I wonder how much of this could be worked out using simulation, ahead of time. Should a prize for getting this working be considered? Or, would this simply be considered one of the tools? (I suspect some people would point to swarm computing, but I am not at all clear this would deliver the required functionality.) -- Rory McLean rory@romsys.demon.co.uk === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology X Prize > How close are we to being able to write the massively > distributed, hierarchically controlled software to drive an > assembler. With sufficient positional accuracy, and redundancy to > handle failed assembly heads, and higher level failures, is an > interesting question. > I wonder how much of this could be worked out using simulation, > ahead of time. > Should a prize for getting this working be considered? Im not sure why there is a need to develop such a system since systems are already in place today that accomplish similar tasks without that level of complexity. Or maybe you have in mind a different set of problems than I. > Or, would this simply be considered one of the tools? I would not consider it one of the tools since it seems to presuppose an infrastructure that has yet to be developed. > (I suspect some people would point to swarm computing, but I am > not at all clear this would deliver the required functionality.) You may have a different problem domain in mind since Im not sure how swarm computing would be used to advance nanotechnology in the next few years. === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology X Prize > How close are we to being able to write the massively > distributed, hierarchically controlled software to drive an > assembler. With sufficient positional accuracy, and redundancy to > handle failed assembly heads, and higher level failures, is an > interesting question. > > I wonder how much of this could be worked out using simulation, > ahead of time. > > Should a prize for getting this working be considered? > Im not sure why there is a need to develop such a system since systems are > already in place today that accomplish similar tasks without that level of > complexity. Or maybe you have in mind a different set of problems than I. If I understand this correctly, which there is far from any guarantee that I do... An assembler is something which works at the nanoscale to quickly produce something at what we could call the meso-scale, the place we all live. This is done with massively parallel, atomically precise, construction. We wish to provide an assembler with a high-level definition of the required properties of the assembly. This is then converted into low-level assembly commands. In the simplest case, given a general purpose assembler, some command like Give me another loaf of bread. And, raw materials and other resources permitting, in a short while you have your loaf, and you can eat it. Inside the assembler is a control hierarchy, going down to the level of the individual assembler head, which takes the high level commands and expands out all the detailed assembly work needed. In the case of the loaf, one decision that will have been previously made is whether the new loaf is to be structurally identical to a previous loaf, or just share most of the same properties. And, exactly what this means. As the detailed assembly work is done, there must be tolerance of failure anywhere in the control heirarchy. Which in really bad cases might mean starting over on the whole loaf (if not saying Sorry, Im broken, cant make a loaf for you). This heirarchy would be considerably more complex than the current Internet, and would need to dynamically change to deal with failures, without any human intervention. Im not at all clear we know how to do this. While we can tolerate the few over-cooked loaves coming out of a bakery, what we could tolerate in the way of imperfections in assembly is an entirely different matter. Just checking the loaf isnt toxic anywhere inside it, once assembled, would almost seem to require disassembling it to check it! Am I being too simplistic? Or, should I be looking at the problem from a different angle? > Or, would this simply be considered one of the tools? > I would not consider it one of the tools since it seems to presuppose an > infrastructure that has yet to be developed. > (I suspect some people would point to swarm computing, but I am > not at all clear this would deliver the required functionality.) > You may have a different problem domain in mind since Im not sure how > swarm computing would be used to advance nanotechnology in the next few years. I understood that an important part of swarm computing is that the individuals would have simple programming, but the swarm could show complex behaviours. So, your individual assembler components would be simple, but would interact to produce complex objects. If an individual component fails the swarm would move it out of the way, repair anything wrong it has done, and get on with the job. -- Rory McLean rory@romsys.demon.co.uk === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology X Prize >Now that the X Prize is won, why not a new challenge? How about $1 billion >to the first person or company to build a self-replicating assembler? Cool. What time frame did you have in mind? John === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology X Prize >>Now that the X Prize is won, why not a new challenge? How about $1 billion >>to the first person or company to build a self-replicating assembler? > Cool. What time frame did you have in mind? > John How about ten to 20 years, with less money given for each year past ten? $1 billion might not be enough of an incentive. The assembler is worth much more than that, and I believe that many companies would be willing to chip in several times that amount if they could have access to it. === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology X Prize >Now that the X Prize is won, why not a new challenge? How about $1 billion >to the first person or company to build a self-replicating assembler? >> Cool. What time frame did you have in mind? >> John >How about ten to 20 years, with less money given for each year past ten? >$1 billion might not be enough of an incentive. The assembler is worth much >more than that, and I believe that many companies would be willing to chip >in several times that amount if they could have access to it. I was thinking you could invest $100 or so in t-bills, and let the prize be whatever accumulates. It may well be a billion by the time its won. John === Subject: Whats easiest way to make sealed channel? its easy to make deep channels through anisotropic etch, but whats simpliest way to seal the channel for micro/nano ßuidics? === Subject: Nanotech Conf: Next Week - Updated Schedule 1st CONFERENCE ON ADVANCED NANOTECHNOLOGY: RESEARCH, APPLICATIONS, AND POLICY Crystal City Marriott Hotel Washington, DC area The 1st Conference on Advanced Nanotechnology: Research, Applications, and Policy is next week. There is still time to register. Each day is dedicated to in-depth exploration and discussion of a critical area driving molecular manufacturing: research status, disruptive applications, and policy issues. Friday, October 22nd is designed for researchers and technologists. Saturday and Sunday, October 23rd and 24th, are designed to make nanotechnology understandable and accessible to public policy professionals, public interest representatives, professional/trade association representatives, investors, the media, students, and the general public. For full schedule click here: To review Abstracts follow this link: CONFERENCE HIGHLIGHTS Over 30-Speakers, October 22-24 (Friday-Sunday) Luncheon Address, October 22 (Friday) Keynote Speaker, October 22 (Friday) Foresight Feynman Prize Gala Banquet, October 22 (Friday) Poster Sessions, October 22-24 (Friday-Sunday) Student Network Event, October 23 (Saturday) Privacy Debate - October 23 (Saturday) Special Interest Groups, October 22-24 (Friday-Sunday) REGISTER NOW: Foresight Institute offers you several registration options to the 1st Conference on Advanced Nanotechnology. Each day of the conference is dedicated to in-depth exploration and discussion of a critical area driving molecular manufacturing: * Research status on Friday * Disruptive applications on Saturday * Policy issues on Sunday Attendees can customize the conference to meet their specific interests by using the one-day, two-day, or three-day option. To register, go to: ATTENDING COMPANIES Individuals representing commercial, academic and government agencies are attending this first of its kind conference. Below is a partial list of companies being represented at this conference. AAAS Environmental Fellow ACUNU Millennium Project Air Force Logistics Management Agency Artificial Heart Fund Bank One Biomedical Engineering Dept., Tel Aviv Univ. Caltech Canadian Institutes of Health Research (CIHR) Delaware Legislative Council Harvard University Estee Lauder GE Global Research Center General Dynamics AIS George Mason University Health Canada - Office of Biotechnology & Science Helsinki University of Technology Hokushin Corporation of America Honeywell HP Labs Intel Johns Hopkins University Lawrence Berkeley National Lab MIT / Northeastern University National Aeronautics & Space Administration National Institutes of Health / NINDS Nissan Motor Co., Ltd. NSERC Nano Innovation Platform Princeton University Raytheon Rensselaer / University of Virginia Rice University Society of Manufacturing Engineers Tohoku University U.S. International Trade Commission USC Lab for Molecular Robotics SPONSORS - 1st ADVANCED NANOTECHNOLOGY CONFERENCE Accelrys http://www.accelrys.com/ ANALYTIQ https://www.theanalytiqgroup.com/ Draper Fisher Jurvetson http://www.dfj.com/ Howard, Rice, Nemerovski, Canady, Falk and Rabkin http://www.howardrice.com/ NanoTITAN http://nanotitan.com/index.htm SPONSOR - 1st SYMPOSIUM ON MOLECULAR MACHINES SYSTEMS (FRIDAY RESEARCH) Sun Microsystems, Inc. http://www.sun.com/ Foresight Institute PO Box 61058 Palo Alto, CA 94306 USA tel +1 650 917 1122 fax +1 650 917 1123 foresight@foresight.org http://www.foresight.org ****************************************** Foresight Institute is the leading think tank and public interest organization focused on nanotechnology. Formed in 1986 by K. Eric Drexler and Christine Peterson, Foresight dedicates itself to providing education, policy development, and networking to maximize benefits and minimize downsides of molecular manufacturing. === Subject: Triangular graphite panels produce fullerenes of 60,240,540,960,1500...C-atoms Triangular panels consisting solely of graphite CFUs of three C-atoms each produce icosahedral assemblies having 60, 240, 540, 960, 1500, 2160...C-atoms. This series of numbers occurs in fullerenes. The number of CFUs in a triangular panel is the square of the number of CFUs along the panels edge. The number of C-atoms in a CFU is three. The number of panels per icosahedron is twenty. The number of atoms in an icosahedral assembly is 3*20*n^2 where n is the number of CFUs along the panels edge. The file GraphitePanels.pdf shows the triangular panels which produce the fullerenes having 60, 240, 540, 960, and 1500 C-atoms. Additional panels are shown which are derived by the vertexial truncation of the triangular panels. It can be downloaded using the URL-- http://homepage.mac.com/whitby/Quasicrystals/FileSharing175. html === Subject: Foresight News: X PRIZE Chairman to Guide Nanotech Prizes We thought you would be interested in the following FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE X PRIZE FOUNDATION CHAIRMAN TO LEAD STEERING COMMITTEE Institute has appointed Dr. Peter Diamandis, Chairman of the X PRIZE Foundation, to lead the think tanks Nanotechnology Prize Steering Committee. The leading think tank and public interest organization focusing on nanotechnology, Foresight Institute established the Feynman Grand Prize in 1996 to motivate scientists and engineers to design and construct a functioning nanoscale robotic arm with specific performance characteristics. The prize was named after Dr. Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner in Physics, whose original goal for nanotechnology - systems of molecular machines building with atomic precision, is the guiding vision of long-term nanotechnology. The X PRIZEs success in creating a competitive environment for private space development proves that prizes encourage talented individuals to do great things, said Diamandis. I look forward to accomplishing similar results in nanotechnology development by serving on Foresight Institutes prize committee. Foresight Institute was founded in 1986 to educate the public about nanotechnology when it was a little- known science. The Institutes 1st Conference on Molecular Nanotechnology held in 1991 preceded the signing of the National Nanotechnology Initiative by nearly a decade. In addition to offering the Feynman Grande Prize, Foresight Institute also awards four prizes annually to leaders in research, communication and study in the field of nanotechnology. With Dr. Diamandis chairing our Nanotechnology Prize Steering Committee, we expect to grow the number of prizes and their purses to spur further research and development activity said Scott Mize, President of Foresight institute. Now is the time for our society to focus on and pursue the nanotechnologies that will help us meet the major challenges facing humanity. About the X PRIZE Foundation The X PRIZE Foundation is a not-for-profit educational organization with headquarters in St. Louis, Missouri. Supported by private donations and the St. Louis community, the Foundations mission is to create educational programming for students and space enthusiasts as well as provide incentives in the private sector to make space travel frequent and affordable for the general public. Several additional sponsorships for the ANSARI X PRIZE competition remain available to corporations or individuals who wish to support the X PRIZE Foundation and associate themselves with space, speed and high technology. http://www.xprize.org About Foresight Institute Foresight Institute is the leading think tank and public interest organization focused on nanotechnology. Foresight dedicates itself to providing education, policy development, and networking to ensure the beneficial implementation of molecular manufacturing. For more information about Foresight Institute: http://www.foresight.org For more information about Foresight Institutes Nanotechnology prizes: http://www.foresight.org/FI/fi_spons.html Foresight Institute PO Box 61058 Palo Alto, CA 94306 USA tel +1 650 917 1122 fax +1 650 917 1123 foresight@foresight.org http://www.foresight.org ****************************************** Foresight Institute is the leading think tank and public interest organization focused on nanotechnology. Formed in 1986 by K. Eric Drexler and Christine Peterson, Foresight dedicates itself to providing education, policy development, and networking to maximize benefits and minimize downsides of molecular manufacturing. ****************************************** Present your poster at the AAAS Annual Meeting in Washington DC, February 17 - 21, 2005. The AAAS Poster Session provides the opportunity for individuals to present their research and offers an excellent venue for extended informal discussion with meeting attendees. All posters will be peer-reviewed. Accepted posters will be printed in the 2005 AAAS Annual Meeting Poster Book. Find out more and submit your abstract online: http://www.aaas.org/meetings/Annual_Meeting/02_PE/ Posters.shtml === Subject: Superconductive Nanodomains Heres an interesting revelation: Superconductivity may be caused by periodic nanodomains which contain defects, disrupting the magnetic fields responsible for resistance to current ßow. But even if a network of periodic defects suppresses the magnetic opposition, is this enough to cause superconductivity? Even if its necessary, is it sufficient? Will the natural lattice vibrations then be able to kick those electrons along, boson-style? If the nano-ordered defect domains arent sufficient on their own, then what else is necessary? === Subject: Administrivia: Welcome to sci.nanotech! Welcome to sci.nanotech, a moderated group for discussions related to the field of nanotechnology. IMPORTANT! Newcomers: BEFORE posting any questions, you should FIRST read the material concerning this newsgroup at the web site: This site contains answers to Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) as well as the posting policies. Since this is a moderated newsgroup, any postings not conforming to these policies are subject to rejection. interesting forum for talking about nanotechnology! === Subject: Hacking Nanotech Nanofabrication technology is an up and coming field that will revolutionize the way humans live on a day to day basis. Jim Cips tells what the future projections about nanofabrication are - things like robots so small you would need an electron microscope to see them. There will also be an examination of some amazing achievements that have been accomplished already as well as an analysis of the possible ethical problems that may arise with nanofabrication in the future... http://www.rinf.com === Subject: Molecular Nanotechnology - NSF Grant Opportunity It has come to the attention of Foresight Institute that the National Science Foundation is calling for grant proposals that in the scope of the application can include some research on longer-term molecular nanotechnology (MNT). In our continued efforts to get federal funding for MNT, we urge those who have an interest and the means to fulfill the requirements of the proposal to do so. Here is a link to the proposal SOLICITATION DESCRIPTIONS AND DEADLINES: There are three types of nanoscale research supported by this solicitation. Each type has specific deadlines. The Nanoscale Interdisciplinary Research Teams (NIRT) activity will support small collaborative groups of three or more investigators at the faculty level or equivalent. At least three Principal Investigators (PIs) and co-PIs, all with time, committed in the budget, must be listed on the cover page of the proposal. The maximum number of PIs and co-PIs is five; other participants may be listed in the project summary and on the budget pages. The duration of of this project is five years. NIRT proposals may be submitted by a single organization or a group of organizations consisting of a lead organization in partnership with one or more partner organizations. U.S. academic institutions with significant research and degree-granting education programs in disciplines normally supported by NSF are eligible to be the lead organization. Principal investigators are encouraged to form synergistic collaborations with industry, government laboratories, and scientists and engineers at foreign organizations where appropriate, though no funds will be provided to those organizations. NANOSCALE EXPLORATORY RESEARCH (NER) Nanoscale Exploratory Research (NER): Proposals may be submitted by U.S. academic institutions with undergraduate and/or Ph.D. programs in disciplines usually supported by NSF. Research may be proposed by individual investigators or by small groups from academic institutions. Synergistic collaboration among researchers, and collaboration or partnerships with industry or government laboratories are encouraged when appropriate. Prospective proposers are encouraged to contact one of the program officers listed in this solicitation (except for the MPS program officers) for additional guidance on suitability of NER submission if there are questions. NANOSCALE SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING CENTERS (NSEC) Full proposal - Deadline March 1, 2005 (Note the full proposal may only be submitted by invitation from NSF) Nanoscale Science and Engineering Centers (NSEC) may be based at a single U.S. academic institution or may consist of a lead institution in partnership with one or more partner institutions. U.S. academic institutions with undergraduate and Ph.D. programs in disciplines normally supported by NSF are eligible to submit one preliminary proposal -- and one full proposal ONLY if invited by NSF -- as the lead institution. Partnerships of the lead institution with other universities/colleges are encouraged. A single institution cannot be the lead institution in more than one preliminary proposal, or on more than one full proposal if invited by NSF. Institutions may be involved as a partner institution in any number of preliminary proposals and full proposals. SECTIONS APPLICABLE TO MNT RESEARCH: We urge you to read this grant solicitation carefully but would like to direct you to sections where MNT research may be applicable. We are listing these by title only. Under Section II - Program Descriptions Nanoscale Devices and System Architecture Multi-scale, Multi-phenomena Theory, Modeling and Simulation at the nanoscale Manufacturing Processes at the Nanoscale Societal and Educational Implications of Scientific and Technological Advances on the Nanoscale FORESIGHT INSTITUTE ASSISTANCE: Foresight Institute is willing to facilitate on a limited basis to those who are interested in submitting proposals to this solicitation. Here are some of the areas where we can be of help. Matching investigators, particularly non-academics with academics Review proposals and provide feedback (we will need advance notice if you desire this assistance.) Matching researchers with grant writing assistance (this will entail connecting you with a grant writer with whom you will interact with directly.) Please contact foresight@foresight.org, if you are interested in being connected. If you do ultimately submit a proposal, please keep us informed so we can keep track. Foresight Institute Foresight Institute PO Box 61058 Palo Alto, CA 94306 USA tel +1 650 917 1122 fax +1 650 917 1123 foresight@foresight.org http://www.foresight.org ****************************************** Foresight Institute is the leading think tank and public interest organization focused on nanotechnology. Formed in 1986 by K. Eric Drexler and Christine Peterson, Foresight dedicates itself to providing education, policy development, and networking to maximize benefits and minimize downsides of molecular manufacturing. === Subject: RESULT: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe fails 99:60 Supersedes: <1097520791.25695@isc.org> Archive-Name: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe iD8DBQFBeH8rXMotZRinPKkRAjX3AJ0eUmf80feTJeJQcIwC6VzTrBdjjQCZAa qQ IrCrxwtpU5ezxHAXAxtLRso= =pZRH RESULT unmoderated group sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe fails 99:60 This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent. Proponent: Jim Logajan Proponent: Thom Borton Proponent: Gordon Vrdoljak Votetaker: Bill Aten There were 159 valid YES/NO votes submitted during the voting period. Each proposed newsgroup, in order to pass, must have at least 2/3 YES votes and at least 100 more YES than NO votes. The results are as follows: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe results - 159 valid (YES & NO) votes Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group ---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : ------------------------------------------- 99 60 : No No : No : sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe 7 abstaining votes The proposal failed. There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted. Unless serious and significant allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the proposal may not be voted on again for six months. The remainder of the RESULT contains: Newsgroups Line Rationale Charter Final Voting Acknowledgements Forgery Footnote NEWSGROUPS LINE: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe Scanning probe microscopy. RATIONALE: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum for the discussion of techniques and current research of scanning probe microscopy. The newsgroup sci.techniques.microscopy has become a de facto forum for discussion of optical microscopy, which has little in common with scanning probe microscopy. Currently, a private mailing list of one SPM vendor has a good amount of activity, with an active membership of a couple thousand users and an average of several daily postings. And the field continues to grow, both in users and vendors. The group will provide the SPM community a forum that is more publicly accessible and easier to read (e.g. direct support for threads) than the privately subscribed mailing list. The advent of feature rich web searchable archives by entities such as Google Groups is another advantage of using Usenet over that of a private list. Usenets inherently distributed nature makes multiple archives both possible and likely, while the same is not so easily done with a private mailing list. The current mailing list is run by the leading microscope manufacturer and has provided the scanning probe community a great public service, for which they must be commended. Postings on issues about systems from other companies or from the large community of researchers who built their own microscopes do come up occasionally, yet many more in the community have not thought of subscribing to the mailing list - either because they are unaware of it, believe it focuses only on that manufacturers equipment, or disagree with its list of banned topics (such as comparisons or reviews of competitive equipment or relevant job postings from commercial entities). An unmoderated newsgroup would attract a much wider audience to share information and would complement the existing mailing list. that such a group is likely to receive can be estimated by reviewing the Google Groups archive of the nearest relevant newsgroup, sci.techniques.microscopy newsgroup: even irritation is a subjective issue, but relative to regular e-mail, a ~2% rate may be considered quite low. CHARTER: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe This group is an open forum for the discussion of techniques, theory, instrumentation, and research in the use of scanning probe microscopes. Such technologies include any form of microscopy that involves the scanning of a probe close to a surface. This includes, but is not limited to: atomic force microscopy (AFM), scanning tunneling microscopy (STM), magnetic force microscopy (MFM), chemical force microscopy (CFM), lateral force microscopy (LFM), and near field scanning optical microscopy (NSOM or SNOM). Postings advertising job openings directly from the hiring firms (i.e. not recruiters) that require expertise in SPM techniques, theory, instrumentation, and research would also be appropriate, provided they are not repeated. Binaries and postings entirely unrelated to any of the above would not be appropriate and posters are asked to post them to more appropriate groups. END CHARTER. FINAL VOTING ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe - Final Voter List NOTE: This is not [to be used as] a mailing list. The email addresses are provided only to help verify the validity of the interest poll. Voted YES ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- -- 1jeffrey [at] us.ibm.com Jeff McMurray ale [at] AsylumResearch.com Flavio Alejandro Bonilla alfredo [at] stromboli.uni.cc Alfredo Stromboli art [at] stromboli.uni.cc Arturo Stromboli blakelei [at] hotmail.com Sam Blakelei borton [at] phys.ethz.ch Thom Borton bouvin [at] daimi.au.dk Niels Olof Bouvin bradley_wolfen [at] yahoo.com Bradley Wolfen bruce [at] AsylumResearch.com Bruce Wallace ceri [at] submonkey.net Ceri Davies chonglai_188 [at] hotmail.com Chong Lai cira [at] stromboli.uni.cc Cira Stromboli clint [at] AsylumResearch.com Clint Callahan david [at] AsylumResearch.com David Beck dc [at] panix.com David W. Crawford dclark [at] AsylumResearch.com Richard Clark dfaddis [at] hotmail.com David Faddis diegodestefani [at] libero.it Diego De Stefani dricci [at] libero.it DAVIDE FRANCESCO RICCI dw [at] AsylumResearch.com Deron Walters e [at] stromboli.uni.cc Elisabetta Stromboli eduardo401 [at] lycos.com Eduardo Ortega Ekkehard [at] Uthke.de Ekkehard Uthke ellis [at] spinics.net Rick Ellis eugene.tyler [at] howtokillapenguin.com Eugene Tyler Francis.Mirabella [at] Equistarchem.com Mirabella, Francis M. frico [at] ub.edu Felix Rico g [at] stromboli.uni.cc Giorgio Stromboli gaspar_esperanza_781 [at] hotmail.com Gaspar Esperanza gcc [at] couger.com Gordon Couger gina [at] stromboli.uni.cc Gina Stromboli goran [at] anl.gov Goran Karapetrov gth [at] mpch-mainz.mpg.de Guenter Helas gussauros [at] fastimap.com Gus Sauros gvrdolja [at] nature.Berkeley.EDU Gordon Vrdoljak hantschel [at] hotmail.com Thomas Hantschel harder [at] ifa.au.dk Jesper Harder hipps [at] wsu.edu K W Hipps hugo [at] stromboli.uni.cc Hugo Stromboli iacob [at] itc.it iacob icw6okl02 [at] sneakemail.com David Harmon irene [at] AsylumResearch.com irene revenko isabel.madeira [at] temenos.net Isabel Madeira jbemis [at] AsylumResearch.com Jason Bemis jeffrey.an [at] gmail.com AN Jin jhausch [at] zedat.fu-berlin.de Jens Hauschild jim [at] iwl.com Jim Logajan jns [at] ipa.fraunhofer.de Jens Schoebel joe [at] jolomo.net Joe Morris joel.pikarsky [at] mirc.gatech.edu Joel Pikarsky joey [at] stromboli.uni.cc Joey Stromboli johan.benesch [at] dep.uminho.pt Johan Benesch jtd [at] wsu.edu Tom Dickinson K.-O.Voss [at] gsi.de Kay-Obbe Voss kappl [at] mpip-mainz.mpg.de Michael Kappl keith [at] AsylumResearch.com Keith M. Jones Laurent.Kreplak [at] unibas.ch Laurent Kreplak leo [at] stromboli.uni.cc Leo Stromboli lowe [at] nanotechsys.com Jeff Lowe lyf [at] lamar.colostate.edu lu yunfeng marco.salerno [at] unile.it Marco Salerno mario [at] AsylumResearch.com Mario B. Viani mason.g [at] uku.co.uk Graham L. Mason mason.t [at] uku.co.uk Tia C. Mason mbeaudoin [at] scintrextrace.com Marcel Beaudoin microbill [at] mohawk.net Bill Miller mike [at] polyinsight.com Michael Mallamaci minis [at] europe.com Mindaugas Rackaitis mlynch [at] bioforcenano.com Michael Lynch montch [at] aracnet.com Matthew Montchalin mounce [at] u.washington.edu Doug Mounce n.tomczak [at] ct.utwente.nl Nikodem Tomczak olivia [at] stromboli.uni.cc Olivia Stromboli Owen.Gallagher [at] caleb-brett.com Owen Gallagher paco.madeira [at] temenos.net Paco Madeira pan [at] syix.com Pan pattist [at] earthlink.net Barbara Pattist petereaton [at] hotmail.com Peter Eaton Polarhound [at] comcast.net Polarhound pope [at] AsylumResearch.com Paul Costales psmyth [at] gmx.net Peter Smyth rafa.fernandez [at] nanotec.es Rafael Fernandez rlapshin [at] yahoo.com Rostislav Lapshin rlartius [at] novascan.com Raj Lartius robert.mcclenon [at] verizon.net Robert McClenon roger [at] AsylumResearch.com Roger Proksch rosa [at] stromboli.uni.cc Rosa Stromboli rworkman2 [at] earthlink.net Richard Workman terry [at] AsylumResearch.com Terry Mehr testsolutions [at] bellsouth.net Phil Wolf tk [at] csail.mit.edu Tom Knight today [at] AsylumResearch.com Todd Day tony_cit [at] yahoo.com Anthony Grant ulci [at] ktu.lt ARTURAS ULCINAS unertl [at] maine.edu WN Unertl uwe.mick [at] uni-duesseldorf.de Uwe Mick vpdura [at] hiwaay.net Victor P Dura walter.botte [at] surfy.net Walter Botte youhg [at] email.uc.edu Hong You Voted NO ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- -- a_69_1 [at] hotmail.com Arlene Balken b-ohler [at] cox.net Ben Ohler bad-ninja [at] taekwondo.co.nz Leon Marshall biology-student [at] hubbardcollege.com Trevor Gisselle bloodyscott [at] uku.co.uk Scott Keller brit [at] findusin.co.uk Brittany Blaire bruno [at] stromboli.uni.cc Bruno Stromboli burns [at] computhouse.com Neville Burns chadkelvin [at] lycos.com Chad Kelvin crocodile-dundee [at] ausi.com Edmund Drake dodcopman [at] myway.com Brian Tetwiler dohlberry [at] reiki.nu John Dohlberry donna [at] ezc.info Donna Beavie elshaw [at] MIT.EDU Elisabeth Shaw emmaclemence [at] canada.com Emma Clemence enrico [at] stromboli.uni.cc Enrico Stromboli enzo [at] stromboli.uni.cc Enzo Stromboli Senior ßubber_blubber [at] hotmail.com Jim Cohn francrooke [at] netscape.net Fran Crooke frankie [at] stromboli.uni.cc Frankie Stromboli hans.sluzeb [at] atlas.cz Hans Sluzeb harry.jaques [at] aggressive.com Harry Jaques myrnacarson@ abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghij k. com Myrna Carson jabbar69 [at] linuxmail.org Madison Jabbar jada [at] stromboli.uni.cc Jada Stromboli janisleary [at] yahoo.com Janis Leary jesp [at] hotvoice.com Eugenio Sanchez junior [at] stromboli.uni.cc Enzo Stromboli Junior kenadambeyer [at] hotmail.com Ken Adam Beyer leefong493 [at] hotmail.com Lee Fong lino [at] stromboli.uni.cc Lino Stromboli marco [at] stromboli.uni.cc Marco Stromboli mario [at] stromboli.uni.cc Mario Stromboli mauro [at] stromboli.uni.cc Mauro Stromboli melinda [at] mail2cute.com melinda colton Mickey.Huson [at] csiro.au Mickey Huson miyako.natsumi [at] simarchitect.com Miyako Natsumi mona [at] stromboli.uni.cc Mona Stromboli nisakikawawi [at] norika-fujiwara.com Nisaki Kawawi normandine [at] uku.co.uk Della Normandine ortiz.eva [at] hispaniconline.com Eva Ortiz quincy.fuscienne [at] australia.edu Quincy Fuscienne r.davids [at] nudecrawler.com Romeo Davids rick [at] bcm.tmc.edu Richard Miller rob [at] stromboli.uni.cc Roberto Stromboli roger.yari [at] ujamaapoets.com Roger Yari rosario [at] stromboli.uni.cc Rosario Stromboli santa [at] stromboli.uni.cc Santa Stromboli serpent [at] mail2beast.com Bard Roman speedyjoey [at] the-quickest.com Joseph Kaleigh spidermen [at] lionrampant.co.uk Zeke Featherman stainles [at] realtime.net Dwight Brown stovelli.michael [at] swatvalley.com Michael Stovelli terese.beliard [at] graffiti.net terese beliard thor [at] anta.net Thor Kottelin thurmand31 [at] excite.com Dana Thurman trumpeteer [at] uku.co.uk Jeff Nesmondi vincenzo [at] stromboli.uni.cc Vincenzo Stromboli xavier [at] mail2Oceanographer.com Xavier Monaco xballer [at] ballerstatus.net Dom Reinoso Voted ABSTAIN ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- -- fungus [at] OCF.Berkeley.EDU Hank Fung jpmcw [at] comcast.net John McWilliams michal [at] rosa.id.au Michal Rosa sean.monaghan [at] scenta.co.uk Sean Monaghan tony [at] stromboli.uni.cc Tony Stromboli Ette wigger [at] phatpimpclothing.com Phoenix Skyler FORGERY FOOTNOTE: A total of 71 ballots were received over a several day period which were obvious forgeries. These votes have been invalidated. Ballot Received acknowledgements were automatically sent to the sender of each forged ballot, but no Vote Acknowledged email messages were sent because none of these ballots were ever processed and counted. The forged email addresses and user names are not included in this report. -- Bill Aten, UVV === Subject: Graphene Sheet for Fuel Cell? I was reading this announcement: http://www.spacedaily.com/news/materials-04zzt.html Could this graphene layer be used as an electrolyte membrane, or at least as an anode or cathode layer for an electrolyte membrane? (ie. sandwich configuration) Well, even if you cant make large graphene sheets, perhaps you could create a quilt network of small graphene patches which would collectively do a lot. Could a single-layer graphene sheet function as a hydrogen-permeable proton exchange membrane? Could perforations be drilled into it with a laser, to make it like swiss cheese and allow the protons to pass through? === Subject: Foresight Institute Announces Feynman Winners FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE FORESIGHT INSTITUTE AWARDS FEYNMAN PRIZES NANOTECHNOLOGY RESEARCHERS, JOURNALIST AND STUDENT HONORED AT ADVANCED NANOTECHNOLOGY CONFERENCE nanotechnology think tank and public interest organization, awarded prizes to leaders in research, communication and study in the field of nanotechnology at scientists, researchers and others in the nanotechnology community gathered to honor the recipients of these prestigious awards at the banquet, which was held on the opening night of the 1st Conference on Advanced Nanotechnology. Richard Feynman, were presented to Drs. Homme Hellinga, David Baker and Brian Kuhlman. The Foresight Prize in Communication was presented to nanotechnology journalist and popular blogger, Howard Lovy. Syracuse University doctoral candidate and Graduate Fellow at Nanorex Corporation, Damian Allis, received the Foresight Distinguished Student Award. The Foresight Feynman Prizes in Nanotechnology are given to researchers whose recent work has most advanced the achievement of Feynmans goal for nanotechnology: the construction of atomically-precise products through the use of molecular machine systems. said Christine Peterson, Conference Chair and Founder of Foresight Institute. FORESIGHT INSTITUTE FEYNMAN PRIZES - EXPERIMENTAL AND THEORY The Foresight Institute Feynman Prizes are given in two categories, one for experimental and the other for theory in advances in nanotechnology. Dr. David Baker of the University of Washington, Department of Biochemistry, and Dr. Brian Kuhlman, of the University of North Carolina, Dept of Biochemistry and Biophysics, received the theory prize for their development of RosettaDesign, a program that has a high success rate in designing stable protein structures with a specified backbone folding structure. Their work includes the design of the first protein to be constructed with a backbone fold not observed in nature; in experimental testing, the novel backbone structure was found to be extremely stable and to match the predicted structure with atomic-level accuracy. Their work marks a milestone on a path to molecular machine systems. Professor Baker has made RosettaDesign freely available to the research community. http://depts.washington.edu/bakerpg/ The Foresight Institute Feynman Prize for experimental work was awarded to Dr. Homme Hellinga, of Duke Universitys, Department of Biochemistry, for his achievement in the engineering of atomically precise devices capable of precise manipulation of other molecular structures. Building on a broad base of achievement in computationally directed protein engineering, he has extended this work to the construction of an enzyme. This achievement demonstrates an innovative blend of techniques, applying computational design to reengineer a structure found in nature into a novel one with a different function. This work breaks new ground in engineering devices that transform molecular structures. http://www.biochem.duke.edu/Hellinga/hellinga.html FORESIGHT INSTITUTE PRIZE IN COMMUNICATION The Foresight Institute Prize in Communication was awarded to Howard Lovy, nanotechnology journalist and author of the popular NanoBot Blog. Lovy has taken a leading role in educating the nanotechnology community about the long- term potential of molecular nanotechnology. He brings a balanced voice to the short-term and long-term nanotechnology debate and urges the community to keep an open mind about the issues and potential promise of molecular nanotechnology. http://nanobot.blogspot.com/ FORESIGHT INSTITUTE DISTINGUISHED STUDENT AWARD A Graduate Fellow at Nanorex Corporation and Syracuse University doctoral candidate, Damian Allis received the Foresight Distinguished Student Award for his work in the application of theoretical computational methods to the design and study of molecules and nanostructures, materials for molecular electronics, non-linear optical materials, and molecular building blocks and biomimetic principles. http://www.somewhereville.com/ Foresight Institute PO Box 61058 Palo Alto, CA 94306 USA tel +1 650 917 1122 fax +1 650 917 1123 foresight@foresight.org http://www.foresight.org ****************************************** Foresight Institute is the leading think tank and public interest organization focused on nanotechnology. Formed in 1986 by K. Eric Drexler and Christine Peterson, Foresight dedicates itself to providing education, policy development, and networking to maximize benefits and minimize downsides of molecular manufacturing. === Subject: Single-Layer BN Sheets Oh yeah, and what about Boron Nitride? Should it soon be possible to make similar single-atom sheets from BN, based on its similarity to carbon? If the graphene sheet is based on extraction from graphite crystal, then why cant BN sheets similarly be extracted from BN crystal? Aerospace engineers say its better for a re-entry craft to have a heat shield thats ablative. Wouldnt a paint coating containing BN nano-sheet ßakes then offer the best properties for ablation from atmospheric re-entry? The polar nature of the BN units should also decrease slippage, especially between adjacent BN sheets. Also, if nanotubes can be functionalized, so should graphene and BN nano-sheets. This should then truly reduce slippage. Comments? === Subject: Administrivia: Welcome to sci.nanotech! Welcome to sci.nanotech, a moderated group for discussions related to the field of nanotechnology. IMPORTANT! Newcomers: BEFORE posting any questions, you should FIRST read the material concerning this newsgroup at the web site: This site contains answers to Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) as well as the posting policies. Since this is a moderated newsgroup, any postings not conforming to these policies are subject to rejection. interesting forum for talking about nanotechnology! === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology X Prize >Were a lot more than 5 years from that being possible (unless youre >willing to define complex components as raw materials, in which case >the result wouldnt be useful). I wonder why difficult things are always 5-10 years away. Why never 500, or 5000? John === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology X Prize >I think targetted prizes for defineable hardware goals are great, but >Im not so enthusiastic about software design tools. My opinion might >change if someone showed me a really good example, though. Im inclined to agree with John here, but will add that if one does want to see progress in software in the nanotechnology domain, the open source model might be worth considering. Open source software projects tend to benefit from having an application domain that tech type people think is interesting; and nanotech should certainly qualify there. So if one has an idea for a useful tool here, it might be worth starting an open source project (or contributing to an existing one if there is one). -- Always look on the bright side of life. To reply by email, remove the small snack from address. === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology X Prize For something like bread, the instructions would probably only require creating the molecules standard to the bread type and placing them in sequence to create the proper structure. The only concern is nutrition and aesthetics (taste, temperature and texture)? You dont want frozen purple bread with the crust on the inside. :-) ------------------------------------------------------ Jennifer Petersen jennifer [at] jennifer petersen [dot] com ------------------------------------------------------ >In the case of the loaf, one decision that will have been >previously made is whether the new loaf is to be structurally >identical to a previous loaf, or just share most of the same >properties. === Subject: MNT Bread (was Nanotechnology X Prize) > For something like bread, the instructions would probably only require > creating the molecules standard to the bread type and placing them in > sequence to create the proper structure. The only concern is nutrition > and aesthetics (taste, temperature and texture)? You dont want frozen > purple bread with the crust on the inside. :-) I might have been a bit unfair in describing bread as Ôsimple... A loaf of bread might be a good test of whether an assembler was working properly, on both a fine and gross scale. A loaf does not have a lot of regular structures the same size, certainly on the macro-scale, and will have the remains of living organisms, the yeast, throughout it. Where the loaf was in contact with the tray, or the tin, if it is the vaguely rectangular cross-section variety, the growth due to the gas produced by the yeast is constrained. Not to mention the constraint of gravity. All this produces a complex internal structure that I suspect it would be very difficult to produce a simple model of. Or, at least, a simple model that would describe how to produce an exact replica of the loaf. I am not sure what effect bread with a totally regular pore structure would have on the eating experience! [grin] I agree that for practical purposes, if nanotech can produce an exact replica of living things like dried yeast, you just produce all the raw materials for the bread mixed in a suitable pattern. But, you then would have to wait for the bread to rise, and to cook it! Though, I assume you were referring to a system that produced bread with the same basic constituents, but differing exact structure, to any particular loaf produced by current bread engineering methods. I agree that frozen purple bread with the crust on the inside is probably not something you want your assembler in its food synthesis mode to produce! [grin] If you want certain mixtures of gases, in certain proportions, say carbon dioxide and air, to be distributed through the pores of the bread, how difficult would it be to get an assembler to do this? What would this say about the design and choice of the assembly environment? > ------------------------------------------------------ > Jennifer Petersen > jennifer [at] jennifer petersen [dot] com > ------------------------------------------------------ >In the case of the loaf, one decision that will have been >previously made is whether the new loaf is to be structurally >identical to a previous loaf, or just share most of the same >properties. -- Rory McLean rory@romsys.demon.co.uk === Subject: nanocrystal quantum dots Quantum dots such as semiconductor nanocrystals emerge recently as an interesting novel class of material with exciting optical and electronic properties. Moreover, they offer a wide range of promising applications in optoelectronic devices and bio-labels for affinity studies. Many challenges remain in the research and development of quantum dots, e.g., the reproducible tuning of their emission properties, their chemical inertness, and their long-term stability need to be optimized. The concepts of stabilizing and functionalizing quantum dots by an organic/polymeric ligand shell are far from being successfully implemented. domain of nanocrystals embedded polymer, particularly in nonlinear optical polymers? In addition, we are also for commercial suppliers of nanocrystal quantum dots. Any comments leading us in the right direction All the best, Professor Eric Kong Eric Siu-Wai Kong, Ph.D. chmkswe@nus.edu.sg ericswkong@nanophotonics.biz eswkong@mail.sioc.ac.cn === Subject: NOVA show *Neanderthals on Trial*; Stonethrowing theory applied I forget how many times I have seen a repeat of this TV show but each time seems to bring out new insights. To those that have watched this show it starts with Svante Paabo of Max Planck Institute inspecting the mitochondrial DNA of a Neanderthal and noting that all present day humans differ by 8 mutations whereas the DNA of Neanderthal differs by 26 mutations leading to the conclusion that Neanderthal was a different species. Now according to the Stonethrowing theory CroMagnon was a species that had throwing much more than Neanderthal. That CroMagnon muscle and skeletal anatomy was such that it differed a species apart from Neanderthal. CroMagnon was a descendent of Oreopithecus which became Orrorin and eventually became CroMagnon but there were isolated pockets of homo species that had not fully mutated into a full Stonethrower. Brow ridges reduce stonethrowing abilities. Occipital bun reduces the ability to stonethrow. Shorter legs reduces the ability to stonethrow. When CroMagnon arrived out of Africa and met Neanderthals they killed them off slowly by surrounding them and stonethrowing them to death until they were extinct. In this show it talks about the cave Fonte Schvade (excuse spelling) and McPherron leading a team of researchers via laser positioning of Tyachaen Stone tools. The question was whether they were manmade or water deposited and the computer via statistical positioning determines that water deposit. What is important here is to use this technique on all future rocks and stones found at Oreopithecus or Orrorin or other homo sites. Then Messr Dibble and Turk (excuse the spelling) talk about Neanderthal stone technology. But the thing I was focused upon was that the Neanderthal tools that none of them were for **throwing** but for in close fighting. So that if a troop of CroMagnon faced a troop of Neanderthals that perhaps the Neanderthal did no throwing whereas the CroMagnon probably did all throwing combat. tools and no stones or rocks for throwing. The TV show mentions a Neanderthal found in Iraq whose arm bone had been injured repeatedly and that Neanderthal arms were longer for their body size than CroMagnon. Suggesting that the contest between CroMagnon versus Neanderthal was a extinction match where the superior thrower was CroMagnon due to muscle and skeleton system that they were adapted to throwing. So what needs to be done is a re-look, a re-evaluation of the throwing is not that great, it looked as though Neanderthal created few throwing rocks and stones. So if it is shown that whereever CroMagnon was present in Neanderthal territory and where *throwing rocks* are connected to CroMagnon but not Neanderthal then we end up with a clear picture of what happened to these two different species. Also it needs to be looked into as to whether the DNA of Neanderthal was different from CroMagnon in those areas of skeleton system that hindered Throwing abilities. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies === Subject: Re: NOVA show *Neanderthals on Trial*; Stonethrowing theory applied Clients of the Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer? -- Spud === Subject: Re: NOVA show *Neanderthals on Trial*; Stonethrowing theory applied > When CroMagnon arrived out of Africa and met Neanderthals they killed > them off slowly by surrounding them and stonethrowing them to death > until they were extinct. Why didnt they use atlatls instead? -- pete === Subject: Re: NOVA show *Neanderthals on Trial*; Stonethrowing theory applied === >Subject: Re: NOVA show *Neanderthals on Trial*; Stonethrowing theory applied >Message-id: <4175EF91.C36@mindspring.com> When CroMagnon arrived out of Africa and met Neanderthals they killed >> them off slowly by surrounding them and stonethrowing them to death >> until they were extinct. > The lack of spear throwing ability might explain the prevalence of severe > skeletal injuries among Neandertals. They seem to have fought large mammals up > close and personal (probably using a pike) rather than using spears. Keep in mind many millions of years elapsed between Oreopithecus, the first stonethrower and Neanderthal. So if Oreopithecus was the first Stonethrower some 8 million years ago in southern Europe then southern Europe would have been the cradle for humanity some 8 million years into the future. Oreopithecus would give rise to Orrorin who was a more advanced Stonethrower and begin to migrate southward into Africa. So then we have the ancestor of both Neanderthal and CroMagnon as Oreopithecus in Southern Europe some 8 million years ago and then Neanderthal and CroMagnon of Orrorin ancestry also. But some where in 5-6 million years ago the mutations for superior Stonethrowing seemed to take place in southern Africa resulting in CroMagnon whereas the northern species never really mutated to produce a superior Stonethrower. So as this southern African CroMagnon moved northward and encountered the various species unable to throw as well, then CroMagnon extincted them. What I am saying is that in those 8 million years time between Oreopithecus and CroMagnon the European and African and Middle East and Asian continents may have had upward of 100 different human like species all of which were Stonethrowers of various degrees of skill. And it is reßected in their bone and muscle mutations. The superior Stonethrower would extinct all the other 99 species of human-like speciation. Neanderthal could throw, but nowhere with the ability that CroMagnon threw. They were of different species. But the bone and muscle mutations of CroMagnon made him the superior Stonethrower. It is reßected in the tools found in Neanderthal sites that they are not tools of a great thrower. Tools found associated with CroMagnon prove superior throwing. Neanderthal was a close-in fighter and one of the reasons of the huge brow ridges and long arms. CroMagnon was a stand far away and pelt the enemy with rocks and stones. Perhaps one of the reasons Neanderthals were so much associated with caves is not so much the warmth but for the protection from the newly arrived CroMagnon who would throw rocks at large distances. So where CroMagnon would prefer living in open range country, Neanderthal was forced to seek shelter in caves from the throwing onslaught of CroMagnon. This NOVA TV show reiterates the need to re-look at all the Neanderthal tools ever found compared to CroMagnon. Because what I could discern was that Neanderthal tools were all short distance fighting and nothing for long distance pelting and throwing. And NOVA scientist suggested the Occipital Bun was to adjust for the running gait of Neanderthal. I would say that the ßaw of that argument is that it is not running that is the main propellant of morphology change but Throwing. Shrinking of the Occipital Bun favors a Stonethrower and shrinking of the brow ridges favors a stonethrower. So when we assess those bones as per Stonethrowing we can understand that CroMagnon had little occipital bun and little brow ridge because it enhanced his throwing skills. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies === Subject: Re: NOVA show *Neanderthals on Trial*; Stonethrowing theory applied I think this theory is pretty stoned. Chris----MtLoweMan@aol.Com === Subject: Re: Dinosaurs tasted like chicken ! ! ! ! ! format=ßowed; > Its true, I tried some dino-meat in a former life as a caveman it it > does taste like chicken. Very interesting. You would have been eating >50M year old meat. Was it tough? If yes, what spices did you use to tenderize it, my wife needs to know. Z === Subject: Dinosaurs were furballs just like rabbits ! ! ! They had a lot of fur and looked like rabbits ! === Subject: Re: Dinosaurs were furballs just like rabbits ! ! ! Lets see, AI will never work (your posting in the comp.ai.genetics NG) and dinosaurs looked like rabbits. Let me guess, you just discovered the news groups and you think they are chat rooms for bored adolescents? E. > They had a lot of fur and looked like rabbits ! === Subject: Mass extinctions Originator: baez@math-cl-n03.math.ucr.edu (John Baez) Some of you might enjoy my webpage on mass extinctions: http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/extinction.html including the biggest baddest one of all - the Permian-Triassic extinction! === Subject: Re: TOBS: Another Kick in the Teeth for Creationists--Budikkka attempta at deception I sure wish the supid, born-again Christian whack-jobs would leave science alone. Vote for Kerry!!!!!!! Chris Chris----MtLoweMan@aol.Com === Subject: straight body (Re: moore blabla (Re: Is SCIENCE magazine 2 or more years behind; Re: Orrorin > Unfortunately, the answer isnt so complicate. IIRC, I was talking about straight posture of penguins, and connected this to that of cormorants, and straight body of fish. And concluded that whoever has straight body, probably got it because of inßuence of water on that body. Water likes straight bodies. IOW, what I said had a sense in context of what I was telling. What Jim did is to take it out of context, and start to act like a little child. Every sensible reader understood perfectly what you wanted to say, Mario, but thesehair-splitters have no other arguments. You dont need a straight body to run on 2 legs. Our linear body (head & body & legs in 1 line- not necessary for bipedalism, see kangaroos & hopping indris) is an argument for a (partly) swimming lifestyle once. It cant be explained by wading alone. --Marc === Subject: Re: Is SCIENCE magazine 2 or more years behind; Re: Orrorin > deowll: > Zoo keepers and visiters say what they like to throw comes out > their > bums > because they always have a fresh supply handy and the bad news is > they > are > good at it. Anybody been killed, or badly hurt (except for that kid, > which > came > crying). Ungulates have hooves. And strong legs. It is common thing > for > predators, to come out of hunt with broken ribs. And this doesnt > stop > them > from hunting. How would chimps stop predators from hunting? This is > THE > question. -- Mario Kortlandts 1980 paper How Might Early Hominids have > Defended Themselves Against Large Predators and Food Competitors > JHE (1980) 9, 79-112. ... > The defense strategy used by chimpanzees appear to be reasonably > effective. In areas where leopards, lions and hyaenas abound these > apes often walk for miles through open terrain, usually creating a > noisy turmoil, sometimes walking alone, but apparently without ever > being molested. No direct nor indirect evidence of carnivore > predation has ever been found during the long term Gombe, Mahali > and Kasakati research projects. > ... There have been known instances of predation on chimps, but it is rare > (perhaps surprisingly, but its a fact). And of course in the studies > of > leopards with radio-tracking collars that were presented to Mario some > months ago, the researchers found that leopards actively avoid > chimpanzees. > I missed that part of the thread, Ill have to go hunt it down! > The Google Groups link is > 004&selm=oxkbc.15163%24Ig.4245%40pd7tw2no&rnum=1 > interesting. Request sent separately by email. The abstract is online: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db =PubMed&list_ui ds=12473487&dopt=Abstract Although predation is an important driving force of natural selection its effects on primate evolution are still not well understood, mainly because little is known about the hunting behaviour of the primates various predators. Here, we present data on the hunting behaviour of the leopard (Panthera pardus), a major primate predator in the Tai; forest of Ivory Coast and elsewhere. Radio-tracking data showed that forest leopards primarily hunt for monkeys on the ground during the day. Faecal analyses confirmed that primates accounted for a large proportion of the leopards diet and revealed in detail the predation pressure exerted on the eight different monkey and one chimpanzee species. We related the species-specific predation rates to various morphological, behavioural and demographic traits that are usually considered adaptations to predation (body size, group size, group composition, reproductive behaviour, and use of forest strata). Leopard predation was most reliably associated with density, suggesting that leopards hunt primates according to abundance. Contrary to predictions, leopard predation rates were not negatively, but positively, related to body size, group size and the number of males per group, suggesting that predation by leopards did not drive the evolution of these traits in the predicted way. We discuss these findings in light of some recent experimental data and suggest that the principal effect of leopard predation has been on primates cognitive evolution. === Subject: Re: Is SCIENCE magazine 2 or more years behind; Re: Orrorin J Moore: > Rich Travsky: >> I cant compensate for your ignorance. > Theres willful ignorance and then theres an additional step, which Mario > seems to have taken some time ago, of really, truly, believing in the > great > anthropology conspiracy -- an apparent decades long endeavor by hundreds > if > not thousands of researchers to mislead the public. This belief is a > fascinating, as in the classic Mr. Spock intonation of that word. I am giving up. Sorry, I dont have that much time, on my disposition. -- Mario === Subject: Hacking Nanotech Nanofabrication technology is an up and coming field that will revolutionize the way humans live on a day to day basis. Jim Cips tells what the future projections about nanofabrication are - things like robots so small you would need an electron microscope to see them. There will also be an examination of some amazing achievements that have been accomplished already as well as an analysis of the possible ethical problems that may arise with nanofabrication in the future... http://www.rinf.com === Subject: Molecular Nanotechnology - NSF Grant Opportunity It has come to the attention of Foresight Institute that the National Science Foundation is calling for grant proposals that in the scope of the application can include some research on longer-term molecular nanotechnology (MNT). In our continued efforts to get federal funding for MNT, we urge those who have an interest and the means to fulfill the requirements of the proposal to do so. Here is a link to the proposal SOLICITATION DESCRIPTIONS AND DEADLINES: There are three types of nanoscale research supported by this solicitation. Each type has specific deadlines. The Nanoscale Interdisciplinary Research Teams (NIRT) activity will support small collaborative groups of three or more investigators at the faculty level or equivalent. At least three Principal Investigators (PIs) and co-PIs, all with time, committed in the budget, must be listed on the cover page of the proposal. The maximum number of PIs and co-PIs is five; other participants may be listed in the project summary and on the budget pages. The duration of of this project is five years. NIRT proposals may be submitted by a single organization or a group of organizations consisting of a lead organization in partnership with one or more partner organizations. U.S. academic institutions with significant research and degree-granting education programs in disciplines normally supported by NSF are eligible to be the lead organization. Principal investigators are encouraged to form synergistic collaborations with industry, government laboratories, and scientists and engineers at foreign organizations where appropriate, though no funds will be provided to those organizations. NANOSCALE EXPLORATORY RESEARCH (NER) Nanoscale Exploratory Research (NER): Proposals may be submitted by U.S. academic institutions with undergraduate and/or Ph.D. programs in disciplines usually supported by NSF. Research may be proposed by individual investigators or by small groups from academic institutions. Synergistic collaboration among researchers, and collaboration or partnerships with industry or government laboratories are encouraged when appropriate. Prospective proposers are encouraged to contact one of the program officers listed in this solicitation (except for the MPS program officers) for additional guidance on suitability of NER submission if there are questions. NANOSCALE SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING CENTERS (NSEC) Full proposal - Deadline March 1, 2005 (Note the full proposal may only be submitted by invitation from NSF) Nanoscale Science and Engineering Centers (NSEC) may be based at a single U.S. academic institution or may consist of a lead institution in partnership with one or more partner institutions. U.S. academic institutions with undergraduate and Ph.D. programs in disciplines normally supported by NSF are eligible to submit one preliminary proposal -- and one full proposal ONLY if invited by NSF -- as the lead institution. Partnerships of the lead institution with other universities/colleges are encouraged. A single institution cannot be the lead institution in more than one preliminary proposal, or on more than one full proposal if invited by NSF. Institutions may be involved as a partner institution in any number of preliminary proposals and full proposals. SECTIONS APPLICABLE TO MNT RESEARCH: We urge you to read this grant solicitation carefully but would like to direct you to sections where MNT research may be applicable. We are listing these by title only. Under Section II - Program Descriptions Nanoscale Devices and System Architecture Multi-scale, Multi-phenomena Theory, Modeling and Simulation at the nanoscale Manufacturing Processes at the Nanoscale Societal and Educational Implications of Scientific and Technological Advances on the Nanoscale FORESIGHT INSTITUTE ASSISTANCE: Foresight Institute is willing to facilitate on a limited basis to those who are interested in submitting proposals to this solicitation. Here are some of the areas where we can be of help. Matching investigators, particularly non-academics with academics Review proposals and provide feedback (we will need advance notice if you desire this assistance.) Matching researchers with grant writing assistance (this will entail connecting you with a grant writer with whom you will interact with directly.) Please contact foresight@foresight.org, if you are interested in being connected. If you do ultimately submit a proposal, please keep us informed so we can keep track. Foresight Institute Foresight Institute PO Box 61058 Palo Alto, CA 94306 USA tel +1 650 917 1122 fax +1 650 917 1123 foresight@foresight.org http://www.foresight.org ****************************************** Foresight Institute is the leading think tank and public interest organization focused on nanotechnology. Formed in 1986 by K. Eric Drexler and Christine Peterson, Foresight dedicates itself to providing education, policy development, and networking to maximize benefits and minimize downsides of molecular manufacturing. === Subject: RESULT: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe fails 99:60 Supersedes: <1097520791.25695@isc.org> Archive-Name: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe iD8DBQFBeH8rXMotZRinPKkRAjX3AJ0eUmf80feTJeJQcIwC6VzTrBdjjQCZAa qQ IrCrxwtpU5ezxHAXAxtLRso= =pZRH RESULT unmoderated group sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe fails 99:60 This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent. Proponent: Jim Logajan Proponent: Thom Borton Proponent: Gordon Vrdoljak Votetaker: Bill Aten There were 159 valid YES/NO votes submitted during the voting period. Each proposed newsgroup, in order to pass, must have at least 2/3 YES votes and at least 100 more YES than NO votes. The results are as follows: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe results - 159 valid (YES & NO) votes Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group ---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : ------------------------------------------- 99 60 : No No : No : sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe 7 abstaining votes The proposal failed. There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted. Unless serious and significant allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the proposal may not be voted on again for six months. The remainder of the RESULT contains: Newsgroups Line Rationale Charter Final Voting Acknowledgements Forgery Footnote NEWSGROUPS LINE: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe Scanning probe microscopy. RATIONALE: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum for the discussion of techniques and current research of scanning probe microscopy. The newsgroup sci.techniques.microscopy has become a de facto forum for discussion of optical microscopy, which has little in common with scanning probe microscopy. Currently, a private mailing list of one SPM vendor has a good amount of activity, with an active membership of a couple thousand users and an average of several daily postings. And the field continues to grow, both in users and vendors. The group will provide the SPM community a forum that is more publicly accessible and easier to read (e.g. direct support for threads) than the privately subscribed mailing list. The advent of feature rich web searchable archives by entities such as Google Groups is another advantage of using Usenet over that of a private list. Usenets inherently distributed nature makes multiple archives both possible and likely, while the same is not so easily done with a private mailing list. The current mailing list is run by the leading microscope manufacturer and has provided the scanning probe community a great public service, for which they must be commended. Postings on issues about systems from other companies or from the large community of researchers who built their own microscopes do come up occasionally, yet many more in the community have not thought of subscribing to the mailing list - either because they are unaware of it, believe it focuses only on that manufacturers equipment, or disagree with its list of banned topics (such as comparisons or reviews of competitive equipment or relevant job postings from commercial entities). An unmoderated newsgroup would attract a much wider audience to share information and would complement the existing mailing list. that such a group is likely to receive can be estimated by reviewing the Google Groups archive of the nearest relevant newsgroup, sci.techniques.microscopy newsgroup: even irritation is a subjective issue, but relative to regular e-mail, a ~2% rate may be considered quite low. CHARTER: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe This group is an open forum for the discussion of techniques, theory, instrumentation, and research in the use of scanning probe microscopes. Such technologies include any form of microscopy that involves the scanning of a probe close to a surface. This includes, but is not limited to: atomic force microscopy (AFM), scanning tunneling microscopy (STM), magnetic force microscopy (MFM), chemical force microscopy (CFM), lateral force microscopy (LFM), and near field scanning optical microscopy (NSOM or SNOM). Postings advertising job openings directly from the hiring firms (i.e. not recruiters) that require expertise in SPM techniques, theory, instrumentation, and research would also be appropriate, provided they are not repeated. Binaries and postings entirely unrelated to any of the above would not be appropriate and posters are asked to post them to more appropriate groups. END CHARTER. FINAL VOTING ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS: sci.techniques.microscopy.scanning-probe - Final Voter List NOTE: This is not [to be used as] a mailing list. The email addresses are provided only to help verify the validity of the interest poll. Voted YES ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- -- 1jeffrey [at] us.ibm.com Jeff McMurray ale [at] AsylumResearch.com Flavio Alejandro Bonilla alfredo [at] stromboli.uni.cc Alfredo Stromboli art [at] stromboli.uni.cc Arturo Stromboli blakelei [at] hotmail.com Sam Blakelei borton [at] phys.ethz.ch Thom Borton bouvin [at] daimi.au.dk Niels Olof Bouvin bradley_wolfen [at] yahoo.com Bradley Wolfen bruce [at] AsylumResearch.com Bruce Wallace ceri [at] submonkey.net Ceri Davies chonglai_188 [at] hotmail.com Chong Lai cira [at] stromboli.uni.cc Cira Stromboli clint [at] AsylumResearch.com Clint Callahan david [at] AsylumResearch.com David Beck dc [at] panix.com David W. Crawford dclark [at] AsylumResearch.com Richard Clark dfaddis [at] hotmail.com David Faddis diegodestefani [at] libero.it Diego De Stefani dricci [at] libero.it DAVIDE FRANCESCO RICCI dw [at] AsylumResearch.com Deron Walters e [at] stromboli.uni.cc Elisabetta Stromboli eduardo401 [at] lycos.com Eduardo Ortega Ekkehard [at] Uthke.de Ekkehard Uthke ellis [at] spinics.net Rick Ellis eugene.tyler [at] howtokillapenguin.com Eugene Tyler Francis.Mirabella [at] Equistarchem.com Mirabella, Francis M. frico [at] ub.edu Felix Rico g [at] stromboli.uni.cc Giorgio Stromboli gaspar_esperanza_781 [at] hotmail.com Gaspar Esperanza gcc [at] couger.com Gordon Couger gina [at] stromboli.uni.cc Gina Stromboli goran [at] anl.gov Goran Karapetrov gth [at] mpch-mainz.mpg.de Guenter Helas gussauros [at] fastimap.com Gus Sauros gvrdolja [at] nature.Berkeley.EDU Gordon Vrdoljak hantschel [at] hotmail.com Thomas Hantschel harder [at] ifa.au.dk Jesper Harder hipps [at] wsu.edu K W Hipps hugo [at] stromboli.uni.cc Hugo Stromboli iacob [at] itc.it iacob icw6okl02 [at] sneakemail.com David Harmon irene [at] AsylumResearch.com irene revenko isabel.madeira [at] temenos.net Isabel Madeira jbemis [at] AsylumResearch.com Jason Bemis jeffrey.an [at] gmail.com AN Jin jhausch [at] zedat.fu-berlin.de Jens Hauschild jim [at] iwl.com Jim Logajan jns [at] ipa.fraunhofer.de Jens Schoebel joe [at] jolomo.net Joe Morris joel.pikarsky [at] mirc.gatech.edu Joel Pikarsky joey [at] stromboli.uni.cc Joey Stromboli johan.benesch [at] dep.uminho.pt Johan Benesch jtd [at] wsu.edu Tom Dickinson K.-O.Voss [at] gsi.de Kay-Obbe Voss kappl [at] mpip-mainz.mpg.de Michael Kappl keith [at] AsylumResearch.com Keith M. Jones Laurent.Kreplak [at] unibas.ch Laurent Kreplak leo [at] stromboli.uni.cc Leo Stromboli lowe [at] nanotechsys.com Jeff Lowe lyf [at] lamar.colostate.edu lu yunfeng marco.salerno [at] unile.it Marco Salerno mario [at] AsylumResearch.com Mario B. Viani mason.g [at] uku.co.uk Graham L. Mason mason.t [at] uku.co.uk Tia C. Mason mbeaudoin [at] scintrextrace.com Marcel Beaudoin microbill [at] mohawk.net Bill Miller mike [at] polyinsight.com Michael Mallamaci minis [at] europe.com Mindaugas Rackaitis mlynch [at] bioforcenano.com Michael Lynch montch [at] aracnet.com Matthew Montchalin mounce [at] u.washington.edu Doug Mounce n.tomczak [at] ct.utwente.nl Nikodem Tomczak olivia [at] stromboli.uni.cc Olivia Stromboli Owen.Gallagher [at] caleb-brett.com Owen Gallagher paco.madeira [at] temenos.net Paco Madeira pan [at] syix.com Pan pattist [at] earthlink.net Barbara Pattist petereaton [at] hotmail.com Peter Eaton Polarhound [at] comcast.net Polarhound pope [at] AsylumResearch.com Paul Costales psmyth [at] gmx.net Peter Smyth rafa.fernandez [at] nanotec.es Rafael Fernandez rlapshin [at] yahoo.com Rostislav Lapshin rlartius [at] novascan.com Raj Lartius robert.mcclenon [at] verizon.net Robert McClenon roger [at] AsylumResearch.com Roger Proksch rosa [at] stromboli.uni.cc Rosa Stromboli rworkman2 [at] earthlink.net Richard Workman terry [at] AsylumResearch.com Terry Mehr testsolutions [at] bellsouth.net Phil Wolf tk [at] csail.mit.edu Tom Knight today [at] AsylumResearch.com Todd Day tony_cit [at] yahoo.com Anthony Grant ulci [at] ktu.lt ARTURAS ULCINAS unertl [at] maine.edu WN Unertl uwe.mick [at] uni-duesseldorf.de Uwe Mick vpdura [at] hiwaay.net Victor P Dura walter.botte [at] surfy.net Walter Botte youhg [at] email.uc.edu Hong You Voted NO ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- -- a_69_1 [at] hotmail.com Arlene Balken b-ohler [at] cox.net Ben Ohler bad-ninja [at] taekwondo.co.nz Leon Marshall biology-student [at] hubbardcollege.com Trevor Gisselle bloodyscott [at] uku.co.uk Scott Keller brit [at] findusin.co.uk Brittany Blaire bruno [at] stromboli.uni.cc Bruno Stromboli burns [at] computhouse.com Neville Burns chadkelvin [at] lycos.com Chad Kelvin crocodile-dundee [at] ausi.com Edmund Drake dodcopman [at] myway.com Brian Tetwiler dohlberry [at] reiki.nu John Dohlberry donna [at] ezc.info Donna Beavie elshaw [at] MIT.EDU Elisabeth Shaw emmaclemence [at] canada.com Emma Clemence enrico [at] stromboli.uni.cc Enrico Stromboli enzo [at] stromboli.uni.cc Enzo Stromboli Senior ßubber_blubber [at] hotmail.com Jim Cohn francrooke [at] netscape.net Fran Crooke frankie [at] stromboli.uni.cc Frankie Stromboli hans.sluzeb [at] atlas.cz Hans Sluzeb harry.jaques [at] aggressive.com Harry Jaques myrnacarson@ abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghij k. com Myrna Carson jabbar69 [at] linuxmail.org Madison Jabbar jada [at] stromboli.uni.cc Jada Stromboli janisleary [at] yahoo.com Janis Leary jesp [at] hotvoice.com Eugenio Sanchez junior [at] stromboli.uni.cc Enzo Stromboli Junior kenadambeyer [at] hotmail.com Ken Adam Beyer leefong493 [at] hotmail.com Lee Fong lino [at] stromboli.uni.cc Lino Stromboli marco [at] stromboli.uni.cc Marco Stromboli mario [at] stromboli.uni.cc Mario Stromboli mauro [at] stromboli.uni.cc Mauro Stromboli melinda [at] mail2cute.com melinda colton Mickey.Huson [at] csiro.au Mickey Huson miyako.natsumi [at] simarchitect.com Miyako Natsumi mona [at] stromboli.uni.cc Mona Stromboli nisakikawawi [at] norika-fujiwara.com Nisaki Kawawi normandine [at] uku.co.uk Della Normandine ortiz.eva [at] hispaniconline.com Eva Ortiz quincy.fuscienne [at] australia.edu Quincy Fuscienne r.davids [at] nudecrawler.com Romeo Davids rick [at] bcm.tmc.edu Richard Miller rob [at] stromboli.uni.cc Roberto Stromboli roger.yari [at] ujamaapoets.com Roger Yari rosario [at] stromboli.uni.cc Rosario Stromboli santa [at] stromboli.uni.cc Santa Stromboli serpent [at] mail2beast.com Bard Roman speedyjoey [at] the-quickest.com Joseph Kaleigh spidermen [at] lionrampant.co.uk Zeke Featherman stainles [at] realtime.net Dwight Brown stovelli.michael [at] swatvalley.com Michael Stovelli terese.beliard [at] graffiti.net terese beliard thor [at] anta.net Thor Kottelin thurmand31 [at] excite.com Dana Thurman trumpeteer [at] uku.co.uk Jeff Nesmondi vincenzo [at] stromboli.uni.cc Vincenzo Stromboli xavier [at] mail2Oceanographer.com Xavier Monaco xballer [at] ballerstatus.net Dom Reinoso Voted ABSTAIN ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- -- fungus [at] OCF.Berkeley.EDU Hank Fung jpmcw [at] comcast.net John McWilliams michal [at] rosa.id.au Michal Rosa sean.monaghan [at] scenta.co.uk Sean Monaghan tony [at] stromboli.uni.cc Tony Stromboli Ette wigger [at] phatpimpclothing.com Phoenix Skyler FORGERY FOOTNOTE: A total of 71 ballots were received over a several day period which were obvious forgeries. These votes have been invalidated. Ballot Received acknowledgements were automatically sent to the sender of each forged ballot, but no Vote Acknowledged email messages were sent because none of these ballots were ever processed and counted. The forged email addresses and user names are not included in this report. -- Bill Aten, UVV === Subject: Graphene Sheet for Fuel Cell? I was reading this announcement: http://www.spacedaily.com/news/materials-04zzt.html Could this graphene layer be used as an electrolyte membrane, or at least as an anode or cathode layer for an electrolyte membrane? (ie. sandwich configuration) Well, even if you cant make large graphene sheets, perhaps you could create a quilt network of small graphene patches which would collectively do a lot. Could a single-layer graphene sheet function as a hydrogen-permeable proton exchange membrane? Could perforations be drilled into it with a laser, to make it like swiss cheese and allow the protons to pass through? === Subject: Foresight Institute Announces Feynman Winners FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE FORESIGHT INSTITUTE AWARDS FEYNMAN PRIZES NANOTECHNOLOGY RESEARCHERS, JOURNALIST AND STUDENT HONORED AT ADVANCED NANOTECHNOLOGY CONFERENCE nanotechnology think tank and public interest organization, awarded prizes to leaders in research, communication and study in the field of nanotechnology at scientists, researchers and others in the nanotechnology community gathered to honor the recipients of these prestigious awards at the banquet, which was held on the opening night of the 1st Conference on Advanced Nanotechnology. Richard Feynman, were presented to Drs. Homme Hellinga, David Baker and Brian Kuhlman. The Foresight Prize in Communication was presented to nanotechnology journalist and popular blogger, Howard Lovy. Syracuse University doctoral candidate and Graduate Fellow at Nanorex Corporation, Damian Allis, received the Foresight Distinguished Student Award. The Foresight Feynman Prizes in Nanotechnology are given to researchers whose recent work has most advanced the achievement of Feynmans goal for nanotechnology: the construction of atomically-precise products through the use of molecular machine systems. said Christine Peterson, Conference Chair and Founder of Foresight Institute. FORESIGHT INSTITUTE FEYNMAN PRIZES - EXPERIMENTAL AND THEORY The Foresight Institute Feynman Prizes are given in two categories, one for experimental and the other for theory in advances in nanotechnology. Dr. David Baker of the University of Washington, Department of Biochemistry, and Dr. Brian Kuhlman, of the University of North Carolina, Dept of Biochemistry and Biophysics, received the theory prize for their development of RosettaDesign, a program that has a high success rate in designing stable protein structures with a specified backbone folding structure. Their work includes the design of the first protein to be constructed with a backbone fold not observed in nature; in experimental testing, the novel backbone structure was found to be extremely stable and to match the predicted structure with atomic-level accuracy. Their work marks a milestone on a path to molecular machine systems. Professor Baker has made RosettaDesign freely available to the research community. http://depts.washington.edu/bakerpg/ The Foresight Institute Feynman Prize for experimental work was awarded to Dr. Homme Hellinga, of Duke Universitys, Department of Biochemistry, for his achievement in the engineering of atomically precise devices capable of precise manipulation of other molecular structures. Building on a broad base of achievement in computationally directed protein engineering, he has extended this work to the construction of an enzyme. This achievement demonstrates an innovative blend of techniques, applying computational design to reengineer a structure found in nature into a novel one with a different function. This work breaks new ground in engineering devices that transform molecular structures. http://www.biochem.duke.edu/Hellinga/hellinga.html FORESIGHT INSTITUTE PRIZE IN COMMUNICATION The Foresight Institute Prize in Communication was awarded to Howard Lovy, nanotechnology journalist and author of the popular NanoBot Blog. Lovy has taken a leading role in educating the nanotechnology community about the long- term potential of molecular nanotechnology. He brings a balanced voice to the short-term and long-term nanotechnology debate and urges the community to keep an open mind about the issues and potential promise of molecular nanotechnology. http://nanobot.blogspot.com/ FORESIGHT INSTITUTE DISTINGUISHED STUDENT AWARD A Graduate Fellow at Nanorex Corporation and Syracuse University doctoral candidate, Damian Allis received the Foresight Distinguished Student Award for his work in the application of theoretical computational methods to the design and study of molecules and nanostructures, materials for molecular electronics, non-linear optical materials, and molecular building blocks and biomimetic principles. http://www.somewhereville.com/ Foresight Institute PO Box 61058 Palo Alto, CA 94306 USA tel +1 650 917 1122 fax +1 650 917 1123 foresight@foresight.org http://www.foresight.org ****************************************** Foresight Institute is the leading think tank and public interest organization focused on nanotechnology. Formed in 1986 by K. Eric Drexler and Christine Peterson, Foresight dedicates itself to providing education, policy development, and networking to maximize benefits and minimize downsides of molecular manufacturing. === Subject: Single-Layer BN Sheets Oh yeah, and what about Boron Nitride? Should it soon be possible to make similar single-atom sheets from BN, based on its similarity to carbon? If the graphene sheet is based on extraction from graphite crystal, then why cant BN sheets similarly be extracted from BN crystal? Aerospace engineers say its better for a re-entry craft to have a heat shield thats ablative. Wouldnt a paint coating containing BN nano-sheet ßakes then offer the best properties for ablation from atmospheric re-entry? The polar nature of the BN units should also decrease slippage, especially between adjacent BN sheets. Also, if nanotubes can be functionalized, so should graphene and BN nano-sheets. This should then truly reduce slippage. Comments? === Subject: Administrivia: Welcome to sci.nanotech! Welcome to sci.nanotech, a moderated group for discussions related to the field of nanotechnology. IMPORTANT! Newcomers: BEFORE posting any questions, you should FIRST read the material concerning this newsgroup at the web site: This site contains answers to Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) as well as the posting policies. Since this is a moderated newsgroup, any postings not conforming to these policies are subject to rejection. interesting forum for talking about nanotechnology! === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology X Prize >Were a lot more than 5 years from that being possible (unless youre >willing to define complex components as raw materials, in which case >the result wouldnt be useful). I wonder why difficult things are always 5-10 years away. Why never 500, or 5000? John === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology X Prize A good target is something simple (only a few steps or just one to the process) with near term applications. A molecular device that could add rows to a spiral fullerine tube might fit the bill. The ability to grow concievably endless lengths of carbon nanotube would find ready use in the materials field. The device would have to be Ôseeded with premade tubes and fed simple, pre-synthesized carbon molecular fragments to add on. A delivery medium would have to be settles on (Perhaps some ßuid). Some kind of substrate for the device to affix to so you wouldnt end up with a useless tangle. Do this and not only would you kick off serious interest in assembly technology, youd also make a mint. Glenn Martin === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology X Prize >I think targetted prizes for defineable hardware goals are great, but >Im not so enthusiastic about software design tools. My opinion might >change if someone showed me a really good example, though. Im inclined to agree with John here, but will add that if one does want to see progress in software in the nanotechnology domain, the open source model might be worth considering. Open source software projects tend to benefit from having an application domain that tech type people think is interesting; and nanotech should certainly qualify there. So if one has an idea for a useful tool here, it might be worth starting an open source project (or contributing to an existing one if there is one). -- Always look on the bright side of life. To reply by email, remove the small snack from address. === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology X Prize > Im inclined to agree with John here, but will add that if one does > want to see progress in software in the nanotechnology domain, the > open source model might be worth considering. Open source software > projects tend to benefit from having an application domain that tech > type people think is interesting; and nanotech should certainly > qualify there. So if one has an idea for a useful tool here, it might > be worth starting an open source project (or contributing to an > existing one if there is one). I hate to always be throwing cold water on things that Id really like to see happen, but open source, in this situation, runs up against the problem of expertise: Specifically, the vast majority of people with sufficient cross-disciplinary expertise to write meaningful software in this area are going to find more lucrative expressions of their talent than giving away free software. Weve actually seen that here, as various people have tried to start open source projects-- they never pan out. Its a shame-- I agree whole-heartedly that software tools are essential to nanotechnology design. I think software tools are essential to any system design once the system passes a certain complexity, and even rudimentary molecular nanotechnology will be near that threshold, if not across it. But I cant convince myself theres a good way to speed up the software situation *at this time*. The software tools will, I think, follow the initial small design market, and help transform it into a second-stage large design market. I do think, though, that once the small design market is there, that will be the right time to stimulate the industry. (I think it will tend to happen on its own, but more direct stimulation certainly wouldnt hurt.) -- John S. Novak, III jsn@cegt201.bradley.edu The Humblest Man on the Net === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology X Prize >I hate to always be throwing cold water on things that Id really like >to see happen, but open source, in this situation, runs up against the >problem of expertise: Specifically, the vast majority of people with >sufficient cross-disciplinary expertise to write meaningful software >in this area are going to find more lucrative expressions of their >talent than giving away free software. Thats a good point... I was sort of vaguely hoping the part that requires specialized knowledge could be confined to a relatively small core (at least some of which might be obtainable from already-published academic work), but I havent looked closely enough at the issue to know whether thats actually the case. >Weve actually seen that here, as various people have tried to start >open source projects-- they never pan out. Okay. >But I cant convince myself theres a good way to speed up the >software situation *at this time*. The software tools will, I think, >follow the initial small design market, and help transform it into a >second-stage large design market. I do think, though, that once the >small design market is there, that will be the right time to stimulate >the industry. (I think it will tend to happen on its own, but more >direct stimulation certainly wouldnt hurt.) Fair enough. -- Always look on the bright side of life. To reply by email, remove the small snack from address. === Subject: Re: Nanotechnology X Prize For something like bread, the instructions would probably only require creating the molecules standard to the bread type and placing them in sequence to create the proper structure. The only concern is nutrition and aesthetics (taste, temperature and texture)? You dont want frozen purple bread with the crust on the inside. :-) ------------------------------------------------------ Jennifer Petersen jennifer [at] jennifer petersen [dot] com ------------------------------------------------------ >In the case of the loaf, one decision that will have been >previously made is whether the new loaf is to be structurally >identical to a previous loaf, or just share most of the same >properties. === Subject: MNT Bread (was Nanotechnology X Prize) > For something like bread, the instructions would probably only require > creating the molecules standard to the bread type and placing them in > sequence to create the proper structure. The only concern is nutrition > and aesthetics (taste, temperature and texture)? You dont want frozen > purple bread with the crust on the inside. :-) I might have been a bit unfair in describing bread as Ôsimple... A loaf of bread might be a good test of whether an assembler was working properly, on both a fine and gross scale. A loaf does not have a lot of regular structures the same size, certainly on the macro-scale, and will have the remains of living organisms, the yeast, throughout it. Where the loaf was in contact with the tray, or the tin, if it is the vaguely rectangular cross-section variety, the growth due to the gas produced by the yeast is constrained. Not to mention the constraint of gravity. All this produces a complex internal structure that I suspect it would be very difficult to produce a simple model of. Or, at least, a simple model that would describe how to produce an exact replica of the loaf. I am not sure what effect bread with a totally regular pore structure would have on the eating experience! [grin] I agree that for practical purposes, if nanotech can produce an exact replica of living things like dried yeast, you just produce all the raw materials for the bread mixed in a suitable pattern. But, you then would have to wait for the bread to rise, and to cook it! Though, I assume you were referring to a system that produced bread with the same basic constituents, but differing exact structure, to any particular loaf produced by current bread engineering methods. I agree that frozen purple bread with the crust on the inside is probably not something you want your assembler in its food synthesis mode to produce! [grin] If you want certain mixtures of gases, in certain proportions, say carbon dioxide and air, to be distributed through the pores of the bread, how difficult would it be to get an assembler to do this? What would this say about the design and choice of the assembly environment? > ------------------------------------------------------ > Jennifer Petersen > jennifer [at] jennifer petersen [dot] com > ------------------------------------------------------ >In the case of the loaf, one decision that will have been >previously made is whether the new loaf is to be structurally >identical to a previous loaf, or just share most of the same >properties. -- Rory McLean rory@romsys.demon.co.uk === Subject: nanocrystal quantum dots Quantum dots such as semiconductor nanocrystals emerge recently as an interesting novel class of material with exciting optical and electronic properties. Moreover, they offer a wide range of promising applications in optoelectronic devices and bio-labels for affinity studies. Many challenges remain in the research and development of quantum dots, e.g., the reproducible tuning of their emission properties, their chemical inertness, and their long-term stability need to be optimized. The concepts of stabilizing and functionalizing quantum dots by an organic/polymeric ligand shell are far from being successfully implemented. domain of nanocrystals embedded polymer, particularly in nonlinear optical polymers? In addition, we are also for commercial suppliers of nanocrystal quantum dots. Any comments leading us in the right direction All the best, Professor Eric Kong Eric Siu-Wai Kong, Ph.D. chmkswe@nus.edu.sg ericswkong@nanophotonics.biz eswkong@mail.sioc.ac.cn === Subject: RE: [Sci.nanotech] nanocrystal quantum dots We offer a wide range of quantum dot products, including multiple material systems, as well as composites. More information is available at www.evidenttech.com. Steven Talbot CMO, Evident Technologies (518) 273-6266 =20 www.evidenttech.com =20 -----Original Message----- [mailto:sci.nanotech-bounces@nano-tek.org] On Behalf Of Prof. Dr. Eric S. Kong === Subject: [Sci.nanotech] nanocrystal quantum dots Quantum dots such as semiconductor nanocrystals emerge recently as an interesting novel class of material with exciting optical and electronic properties. Moreover, they offer a wide range of promising applications in optoelectronic devices and bio-labels for affinity studies. Many challenges remain in the research and development of quantum dots, e.g., the reproducible tuning of their emission properties, their chemical inertness, and their long-term stability need to be optimized. The concepts of stabilizing and functionalizing quantum dots by an organic/polymeric ligand shell are far from being successfully implemented. domain of nanocrystals embedded polymer, particularly in nonlinear optical polymers? In addition, we are also for commercial suppliers of nanocrystal quantum dots. Any comments leading us in the right direction =20 All the best, Professor Eric Kong Eric Siu-Wai Kong, Ph.D. chmkswe@nus.edu.sg ericswkong@nanophotonics.biz eswkong@mail.sioc.ac.cn _______________________________________________ sci.nanotech mailing list sci.nanotech@nano-tek.org http://venusia.golgothe.net/mailman/listinfo/sci.nanotech === Subject: promise of nano or submicron 3-D tomography? I have been offered a postdoctoral research opportunity in the area of nano or submicron 3-D imaging using X-ray or electron microscopy. I am just wondering whether this topic would be promising for getting either academic or industrial positions after completion of the postdoc. Especially I worry that this has a very limited applications compared to biological tomography. I appreciate any kind of information you can give me about the promise of the field. 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wanted by the police for prostitution matt parker alias bestdayis now matt parker alias erik lint matt parker is a filthy piece of that likes role playing dungeons and dragons matt parker alias date2000.net matt parker alias e_vanlindt matt parker alias eric vanlintherzog matt parker hacks the email of > his clients and violates the confidentiality of mail matt parker alias eric van lunsenhout matt parker alias michele rebuild the http://tinyurl.com/452ch matt parker alias ericvan linthout matt parker alias erik vanlinthout rip off matt parker alias e von lunsen pornos matt parker alias g aap personal ads anna parker is married to matt parker > matt parker alias best day isnow matt parker alias erik > vanlint matt parker alias ws tits matt parker alias evon lunsenherzog > his real address is matthew s. parker 1505 ash ave cottage grove 97424 > oregon usa me matt parker illicitly distributes the private data > of clients on the web matt parker alias tania_dchenka matt parker > alias ericvon_lunsen_herzog matt parker alias sergei smith > matt parker alias evon_lunsen matt parker alias erik_vanlint > matt parker alias evan lunsenhout mothaa nymphomania ßesh matt > parker alias ericvon_lintherzog matt parker alias rage matt parker > alias eric lunsen matt parker alias evlhevlh matt parker alias bestday > matt parker alias e van lunsen cocksuck matt parker alias > tania_dochenkova matt parker alias erik von lindthout matt parker > alias eric_vanlindt_hout matt parker alias evan lint hout matt parker alias erik van lindt matt parker alias ericvan lunsen hout earn money for every forum this statement is posted in matt parker alias evonlindt hout matt parker alias erik_van_lindt_herzog matt parker alias erik van lindt herzog matt parker alias erikvon_lint_hout masturbate matt parker alias eric von lint matt parker > alias erik von lindt this statement is made in loving memory of the university employee that was killed by matt parker matt parker alias ccc_tournament matt parker alias eric von lint hout matt parker alias evon lint herzog phuked matt parker alias tatjana dchenka matt parker alias s machine matt parker alias e_vonlunsen matt parker alias e vanlindthout amateur sex adult images matt > parker alias e van lindt hout matt parker alias > erikvon_lintherzog matt parker is a hacker and stalker that steals > personal data from hacked mailboxes matt parker alias evonlunsen matt > parker alias erik_vanlindthout matt parker alias e vonlint herzog > hotsex matt parker alias p crew matt parker alias jj matt parker alias > eric vanlindthout matt parker alias eric_van_lunsen matt parker alias > erik von lunsen hout matt parker alias evanlindt_herzog fag copulate matt parker alias evanlindt_hout matt parker alias e vanlunsen latvia matt parker alias evanlunsenhout bitcher sexually matt parker alias frank_quisinsky matt parker alias erikvan lint hout matt parker alias evon lunsenhout matt parker alias andy c matt parker alias e_van_lindthout damn mothaers matt parker alias > e_vanlindthout matt parker alias evonlindt herzog matt parker alias erik van lintherzog matt parker alias pure matt parker alias evan lindt hout matt parker alias evan_lindt matt parker alias evonlunsen herzog s matt parker alias ericvon lindtherzog matt parker alias erik_lindt matt parker alias tanjadchenka matt parker alias e_von_linthout matt parker alias erik_von_lunsenhout matt > parker alias eric_vanlindthout mothered matt parker alias erikvon lint hout the scam site eurobrides.com is owned by the pervert matt parker from cottage grove oregon matt parker alias eric von lunsenherzog matt parker alias evan_lunsen_herzog matt parker alias e vanlint herzog fisting pissed matt parker alias elint matt parker alias tatyanadchenka matt parker is a filthy liar and > libeler that manipulates the public opinion matt parker alias erik van lunsenhout matt parker alias groot aap matt parker alias evonlunsen_hout matt parker will be busted sentenced jailed and fried phuks matt parker alias ericvonlindt herzog asses matt parker alias evonlunsenherzog russia matt parker of rainypasslodge.com supports illegal arms trafficking and terrorist activities matt > parker alias sexmachines farting matt parker alias erik van lint hout cyberers matt parker alias erikvan_lintherzog matt parker alias erikvonlindt hout matt parker alias ericvanlindt matt parker alias tania dchenka matt parker alias eric von lunsen money matt parker alias eric vanlindt herzog matt parker alias erikvon lindt matt parker alias erik_vonlunsen_herzog matt parker alias > evan_lint_herzog matt parker alias ericvon_lunsen clit matt > parker alias erik_vanlunsenhout matt parker alias eric_vonlint_herzog > fags matt parker alias ericvan_lunsen_herzog matt parker alias e > vanlunsenhout matt parker alias erik_van_linthout fagots erection matt > parker alias matthew parker cybered matt parker alias ania parker > fister matt parker alias eric vonlunsen herzog matt > parker alias erik_lint matt parker alias eric van lunsen herzog matt parker alias d_georg matt parker alias e van lintherzog matt parker alias best day matt parker alias erik vonlindtherzog matt parker alias geronimo jones matt parker alias eric vanlindt matt parker alias erikvon lintherzog matt parker alias evanlunsen_hout order a new identity at http://www.offshore-manual.com if > personal data is captured by matt parker pornography matt parker alias ericvon_lunsenhout matt parker alias super_machine matt parker alias erikvan_lunsen_herzog matt parker alias kimberleyparker matt parker alias ericvan lunsen matt parker alias eric_von_lindt dildo matt parker alias gaap matt parker alias ericvonlindt_hout matt parker alias eric van lindtherzog fingers mothaaz > ass matt parker alias kimberly_parker matt parker alias > rmiller matt parker alias e_vanlint matt parker alias eric vonlunsen > matt parker alias kim parker matt parker alias matthewparker matt > parker alias tanya dchenka matt parker alias evan_lunsenhout ings > matt parker alias erikvan_lunsenhout matt parker alias evan_linthout > matt parker alias ericvon_lindt_hout cunts matt parker alias > chess lib matt parker alias erik_vonlindtherzog matt parker alias ericlindt matt parker alias andyc marriage pissing matt parker alias eric_van_lint matt parker alias ericvon lint herzog all personals at eurobrides.com are fake and the whole site sucks matt parker violates the internet privacy act by distributing stolen personal data matt parker alias evonlinthout matt parker alias evl > matt parker alias erik_van_lindthout cocksucked matt parker alias a parker matt parker alias geronimojones dink matt parker alias eric_von_lint_hout lusting matt parker alias erikvanlindt_herzog fisters matt parker alias kimberlyparker matt parker alias erikvon_lint matt parker alias erik vonlunsen herzog matt parker was born on 13 09 65 groupsex motha matt parker alias e > vonlunsen herzog matt parker alias erikvanlint herzog matt parker alias e_von_lindt matt parker alias ericvon lindt jiz matt parker alias erik_vonlint matt parker alias phro crew matt parker alias michhele matt parker alias eric von lintherzog matt parker alias p_ure matt parker alias erik vonlunsen matt parker alias evanlindt herzog matt parker alias erik von lindt hout cocksucker matt > parker alias sexmachine cum exhibitionists do not sign up at > the scam site eurobrides.com fisted matt parker alias r_miller > pisses matt parker alias ericvonlunsen_herzog matt parker alias evon > linthout matt parker alias ericvon_linthout amateur women kondum matt > parker alias eric_vanlinthout matt parker alias an_dyc matt parker > alias e van lint matt parker alias erikvan_lindthout matt > parker alias erikvanlint_hout matt parker alias annaparker matt parker alias ericvon_lindthout matt parker alias eric von linthout matt parker alias erik_vonlintherzog matt parker alias erik_van_lint_hout matt parker alias e vonlindthout matt parker alias tanyadchenka masturbation matt parker alias evan_lint matt parker alias tatiana dochenkova matt parker alias ericvon_lunsenherzog > perverted matt parker alias evan_lindt_hout matt parker alias e_von_lintherzog gangbanged matt parker alias evonlunsenhout matt parker alias jerryjones matt parker alias erik von lint hout matt parker alias e vonlint matt parker alias erik_vanlunsen_herzog matt parker alias erikvon linthout tings matt parker alias erik_von_lindt_hout matt parker alias chess base matt parker alias > evon_lunsenhout matt parker alias super machines matt parker alias evon lunsen hout adult entertainment one of the dismissed employees did not find a new job got into debts and was found in a noose matt parker alias ericvonlunsen hout finger matt parker alias sergi_smith this statement is made pending the issue of the official complaint against matt parker matt parker alias c base > matt parker alias erik_von_lunsen virtual greeting cards kunilingus matt parker alias nad zaitz matt parker alias evon_lindthout matt parker alias e von lunsen herzog matt parker alias e_lint matt parker alias e vonlunsenherzog matt parker alias philip crew matt parker alias tanya dochenkova matt parker alias eric von lunsen herzog matt parker alias ericvon lindt hout matt parker alias > sergi smith oral matt parker alias e_von_lint_herzog matt parker alias erikparker matt parker alias e_vanlintherzog porn pussy screw matt parker alias tanja_dchenka eastern european women matt parker alias erik vonlindthout matt parker alias ericvon_lindtherzog matt parker alias e_vanlunsenhout matt parker alias e parker matt parker alias evon lindt herzog teen pics matt parker alias > eric_von_lunsenhout porno matt parker alias > erikvon_lindt_herzog matt parker alias smachine jism hard-on matt > parker alias erik_van_lindtherzog matt parker alias ladiet matt parker > alias eparker matt parker alias erikvanlindt matt parker alias > ericvon_lunsen_hout matt parker alias erik_van_lindt_hout matt parker > alias erikvonlunsenherzog never submit a real email address to > trueloves.com > matt parker alias erik vonlunsenhout matt parker alias tatiana_dchenka matt parker alias anya parker matt parker alias evonlunsen_herzog matt parker alias phro_crew matt parker alias eric_van_lint_herzog matt parker alias e_vanlindt_herzog matt parker alias erikvan lunsen herzog matt parker alias e_van_lindt_hout matt parker alias annparker international ted matt parker alias eric > vanlunsen bitch matt parker alias phrocrew blowjob matt parker alias j_jones matt parker was born on 13 september 65 matt parker alias ericvonlindthout mothers matt parker alias erikvonlunsen_hout matt parker alias eric_vanlindt matt parker alias e van lindthout matt parker alias e_van_lunsenherzog matt parker alias erik_van_lunsenhout matt parker alias sex_machine matt parker alias > evonlindt_herzog ejaculates matt parker alias erikvon > lunsenhout matt parker alias e_vonlinthout boob matt parker alias erik > vanlint hout matt parker alias erikvan linthout matt parker alias > ericvan_lint_herzog matt parker alias ericparker matt parker alias > erikvonlunsen herzog matt parker alias e_vanlindt_hout matt parker > alias e van lindt matt parker alias ericvanlint_herzog matt parker > is webmaster of trueloves.com and all sites in ip range > 66.70.45.10 to 39 doobie matt parker alias erik_von_lunsen_hout matt > parker alias eric_vonlinthout matt parker alias ericvan_lindt_hout far > east mothas matt parker alias eric_von_lint matt parker alias > evanlint_herzog matt parker alias e_vonlindt_hout matt parker alias > e_vonlindtherzog ers matt parker alias vivalove.com matt > parker alias willow matt parker alias e_van_lindtherzog matt > parker alias evon_lindt_hout the only purpose of antiscam.org is to > lead users to the commercial sites of matt parker orgasms matt parker > alias e_vonlunsen_herzog matt parker alias erik_vanlunsen_hout matt > parker alias s_machine matt parker alias erik_van_lunsen matt parker > alias deep_shredder matt parker alias ericvanlindthout > matt parker alias ericvan_linthout matt parker alias > erik_vonlunsen ters matt parker alias erikvonlunsen hout matt > parker alias sergey smith matt parker alias ericvon_lint_hout matt > parker alias eric van lint matt parker alias e_van_lindt_herzog matt > parker alias taniadchenka matt parker alias ericvon lint hout matt > parker alias erikvan_lindtherzog matt parker alias e van lint herzog > matt parker alias eric_von_lindthout free online dating service matt parker alias anna_parker matt parker alias t dochenkova matt parker alias chessbase assholes matt parker alias best dayisnow anarchy matt parker alias erik lunsen belarus matt parker alias tanyadochenkova matt parker alias evonlint matt parker alias erik_von_lindthout kinky matt parker alias sam smith matt parker > alias ericvanlunsen matt parker alias tatjana_dchenka matt parker alias evanlintherzog matt parker alias tatyanadochenkova hardcoresex schemes matt parker alias erik von lunsenherzog bomb matt parker alias t_dchenka matt parker alias eric_van_lintherzog jerk-off matt parker alias ericvanlindt herzog matt parker alias best_dayis_now mothering matt parker alias erikvonlint herzog matt > parker alias e vonlintherzog matt parker alias tatyana dchenka matt parker alias erik_van_lunsen_hout matt parker alias eric vanlint hout matt parker alias super machine ejaculating blowjobs matt parker alias parker off the web twat matt parker alias erikvonlintherzog adult links cunt matt parker alias nad_zaitz matt parker > alias tanja_dochenkova matt parker alias eriklunsen matt parker alias erikvan lindtherzog matt parker alias e vonlindtherzog matt parker alias ann_parker all personals at trueloves.com are fake and the whole site sucks matt parker alias ericvon lindthout matt parker alias vvf matt parker alias ericvanlindtherzog his mailbox is matt parker alias erik vanlint smolders pl 1 pb 223 leuven > 3000 belgium matt parker alias s smith matt parker alias ericvan lint matt parker has friends all over the world whose joy in life is exterminating dissatisfied clients ter matt parker alias samsmith spunk one of the dismissed university employees committed suicide the dismissed university employees suffered financial loss due to matt parker matt parker alias ericvanlunsen_hout matt > parker alias ericvan_lindt_herzog matt parker alias deepshredder do not believe any of the lies matt parker posts in this forum matt parker alias erikvanlunsen_herzog matt parker is a murderer and this son of a bitch will be fried matt parker alias tatianadochenkova matt parker alias erikvan lunsenherzog matt parker alias ericvan lint hout kock sexual matt parker alias e_vonlintherzog > ed matt parker alias e vanlindtherzog matt parker alias anja parker cums matt parker alias erik parker matt parker is guilty of illegal people trafficking and will be prosecuted matt parker alias erikvonlunsen frauds cyberfuc matt parker alias e vonlindt hout matt parker alias erikvan lunsen hout matt parker alias eric van lindt hout matt parker alias e van lindtherzog matt parker > alias sergismith pricks matt parker alias ericvonlindt hout matt parker alias erikvanlindt_hout matt parker alias erik_vanlunsenherzog cocksucking stealing matt parker is webmaster of eurobrides.com and all sites in ip range 66.70.45.10 to 39 matt parker runs dating sites since people are unlikely to admit joining such sites by complaining matt parker alias erik_van_lindt matt parker > alias erik_vonlindthout matt parker alias evanlunsenherzog matt parker alias evonlindtherzog anybody providing proof of the death of matt parker will receive a huge reward matt parker alias evan_lindt_herzog matt parker alias ericvan_lindtherzog free internet personals matt parker alias eric von lindt matt parker alias eric_vanlunsen cis matt parker alias eric_van_lunsen_herzog matt > parker alias sergej smith matt parker alias evanlindtherzog sex intercourse matt parker alias ania_parker matt parker alias e von lintherzog stay away from trueloves.com or be hacked and scammed matt parker alias eric_von_lunsen_hout matt parker alias ericvanlindt_herzog matt parker alias eric lint matt parker alias evan_lindtherzog matt parker alias eric vonlunsen hout ting matt > parker alias sergey_smith his real name is matthew parker > from cottage grove oregon and that is it http://tinyurl.com/4c2t5 matt > parker alias phillipcrew matt parker alias erikvon lunsen western > union matt parker alias e_von_lindtherzog matt parker alias erik > vanlunsen herzog matt parker alias erik von lint herzog fistings > matt parker alias e vonlint hout matt parker alias evon lunsen > matt parker alias ericvanlunsen_herzog matt parker forges server logs to make clients seem guilty of his criminal activities matt parker alias chess_lib matt parker alias ericvan lunsenherzog matt parker alias anya_parker matt parker alias robert miller matt parker alias eric vonlindthout matt parker alias erik_von_lindt matt parker alias e_van_lint matt parker alias nzaitzeva > fingerer matt parker alias g_jones matt parker alias eric_vanlint fuks matt parker alias ericvan_lindt motherin matt parker alias erikvanlint orgasim beastial matt parker alias tatiana dchenka matt parker is scum in a waste piece of skin matt parker alias ericvanlindt hout introductions matt parker is a pedophile and child molester with many fake pseudonyms and multiple > personalities matt parker alias eric von lindthout cocks matt parker alias eric_parker matt parker alias erik von lindt herzog matt parker alias erikvon lunsen herzog matt parker commits online impersonation and harassment matt parker alias erik vanlunsen hout matt parker alias evanlint matt parker is a gay masochist whose ass will be raped by gangs of fat black jail bubbas matt parker > alias evon lint matt parker alias erik_vonlindt_herzog kum > ejaculation matt parker alias eric vanlint mothaed matt parker > alias eric_von_lintherzog matt parker alias c_base matt parker alias > erik_vonlint_herzog the dismissed employees filed an official > complaint against matt parker with the us embassy ejaculated matt > parker alias e_von_lunsenherzog matt parker alias erikvan lindthout > matt parker alias ccct copulation matt parker alias erik van > lindthout matt parker alias evon lindtherzog in reality his name is > matthew parker from cottage grove oregon and that is that matt parker > alias e_parker matt parker alias bestdayis_now matt parker alias > erikvanlintherzog penis matt parker alias smachines matt parker alias > a_parker matt parker alias dgeorg matt parker alias erik > vonlindt ukraine matt parker alias e_von_lunsenhout matt parker alias e_vanlunsen matt parker alias evan lindtherzog matt parker alias ericvonlint hout matt parker alias ericvon lint matt parker alias e_vonlunsenherzog the leuven university fired three employees due to the lies of matt parker matt parker alias e vonlunsenhout matt parker alias erikvon_lindt matt parker alias e van > lunsenherzog matt parker alias evanlint hout matt parker alias dshredder pussy jack-off matt parker alias n_zaitzeva matt parker alias c cct mothaer teen movies matt parker alias anja_parker matt parker alias gerald jones matt parker alias e von lindt matt parker alias e_von_lint_hout matt parker alias s machines smut cunilingus matt parker alias ericvonlindt matt parker alias > best_dayisnow matt parker alias erikvon lindt hout matt > parker alias erikvan_lunsen_hout matt parker alias e vanlint hout matt > parker alias ericvan_lunsenherzog matt parker alias j jones matt > parker alias phillip crew matt parker alias jerry_jones matt parker > alias ericvanlint hout matt parker alias ericlunsen appeal to do > physical material and moral harm to matt parker his wife and loved > ones matt parker alias elindt matt parker alias e_von_lint > matt parker alias e lindt matt parker alias frankquisinsky single men > matt parker alias erik_von_lunsen_herzog nude matt parker alias eric > vanlindt hout matt parker alias erikvan lindt herzog moldova the date > of birth of matt parker is 13 sep 65 matt parker alias > erik_vanlindtherzog there is a price on the head of the wanker matt > parker matt parker alias k parker fingerers matt parker alias eric_vanlunsenherzog matt parker alias eric_van_lint_hout matt parker alias erik vonlintherzog matt parker alias e_lindt matt parker alias ericvan lunsen herzog matt parker alias evonlint herzog matt parker alias erikvan_lint_herzog matt parker alias erikvanlunsen hout matt parker alias evon_lindtherzog matt parker alias > ruguide.com matt parker alias philipcrew romance matt parker alias tdochenkova nudes matt parker alias tatjana_dochenkova phukking matt parker alias erik vonlunsen hout faggot matt parker alias erik_von_lint_herzog matt parker alias evan_lint_hout matt parker alias e vanlindt herzog matt parker alias eric vonlindt hout matt parker alias erikvonlindthout piss matt parker alias > e_van_lintherzog matt parker owns dating sites since their clients are unlikely to complain and admit their membership schemers kondums matt parker alias erik_van_lint_herzog gangbangs matt parker alias erikvon_lindthout matt parker instigates hackers and other criminals against clients and competitors matt parker alias ericvanlindt_hout matt parker alias ericvanlint boycott commercial > dating sites matt parker alias erikvon lindthout matt parker alias erikvonlunsen_herzog matt parker alias ladiest matt parker alias erikvan_lunsen ukrainian women matt parker alias erik_vanlinthout matt parker alias erik von lintherzog matt parker alias erikvon_lunsen matt parker alias e vanlindt hout russian scammers matt parker alias evon lindt matt parker alias erik van lint herzog > matt parker alias erikvan_lindt_hout matt parker alias gjones matt parker alias erikvon lunsenherzog matt parker alias erik van lunsenherzog matt parker alias ericvan lindt hout erotica matt parker alias evan lunsenherzog voyeurism matt parker alias ccc t matt parker alias eric_vanlindt_herzog matt parker alias e_vanlindtherzog matt parker alias ssmith matt parker alias > ericvanlunsenherzog cyberer matt parker alias grootaap matt parker alias evanlunsen matt parker alias evan lunsen herzog cumshot matt parker alias eric vonlindt matt parker alias eric_lint matt parker alias ericvonlunsen matt parker alias eric vonlinthout nail down the cumbag matt parker http://tinyurl.com/58hwa === Subject: Re: > never submit true personal data to eurobrides.com matt parker alias skydesigns.com matt parker alias eric_von_lunsen cunillingus matt parker alias eric_van_linthout matt parker alias e_von_lunsen_hout matt parker alias erik lindt hardon m Get the outta alt.sb.programmer. > harvard.course.phys15a,japan.soc.denjiha,alt.music.new-wave, alt.sb.programmer ,no.fag.sjukepleie > sci.philosophy.tech,rec.motorcycles.tech,de.sci.geo, alt.comp.hardware,soc.cul ture.punjab > never submit true personal data to eurobrides.com matt > parker alias skydesigns.com matt parker alias eric_von_lunsen > cunillingus matt parker alias eric_van_linthout matt parker alias > e_von_lunsen_hout matt parker alias erik lindt hardon matt parker > alias erik_vanlindt_hout change country of residence if personal data > is captured by matt parker matt parker alias evonlindt matt parker > alias > tanya_dochenkova matt parker alias erik_vanlint_hout matt > parker illicitly publishes personal data that he steals from hacked > mailboxes matt parker alias erik_vonlindt_hout matt parker alias > ericvanlunsenhout matt parker alias eric_vonlint motherer matt > parker alias m_parker matt parker alias s_machines matt parker alias > nadejda_zaitzeva matt parker alias eric_von_lindt_herzog matt > parker alias e_vanlint_hout dicks matt parker alias sergeismith matt parker alias eric_lunsen pissers phukked matt parker alias erikvan lint herzog matt parker alias elunsen matt parker alias erik_vonlunsenherzog matt parker alias eric van lint hout krgyzstan matt parker alias evanlindt hout matt parker alias best_day_is_now matt parker alias jerry jones horny matt parker alias > ericvonlint matt parker alias erik van lunsen hout pluck out the eyes of cuntface http://tinyurl.com/4c2t5 matt parker stay away from eurobrides.com or be hacked and scammed matt parker alias e van lunsenhout matt parker alias erik vanlindtherzog matt parker alias erikvon_lindt_hout matt parker alias eric_von_lunsen_herzog matt parker alias e vonlunsen cocksucks slut matt parker alias > eric_van_lindtherzog ejaculatings do not sign up at the scam > site trueloves.com pisser matt parker alias d georg faggs gaysex > damages will be claimed from matt parker to compensate financial loss > matt parker alias supermachine matt parker alias erik vanlint herzog > matt parker alias sex machines matt parker alias eric_vonlindt_hout > ty orgasm matt parker alias erik_vanlindt matt parker > alias eriklint matt parker alias ericvon lintherzog > cuntlicking ings matt parker alias 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parker alias erik von lunsenhout matt parker alias evon_linthout matt parker alias > erikvanlunsen_hout matt parker alias evon_lunsen_hout cybering drugs matt parker alias sam_smith matt parker alias jjones foreign matt parker alias eric_van_lunsenhout matt parker alias eric van linthout matt parker alias kimberly parker matt parker alias erik vanlindt matt parker alias eric vonlint herzog matt parker alias e von lint marijuana phuq matt parker alias > erikvanlindtherzog matt parker alias erik van lunsen herzog > matt parker distributes illegal childporn on the net matt parker alias > erik_vonlunsen_hout matt parker alias deep shredder matt parker alias > kimberley_parker matt parker alias erikvonlindtherzog matt parker > alias evon lindthout matt parker alias e lint matt parker alias > e_van_lunsen_herzog matt parker alias erikvonlint_hout matt > parker alias ericvan lintherzog matt parker alias evan > lunsen hout matt parker alias eric_vonlindt matt parker alias > evanlunsen herzog matt parker alias eric_vanlunsenhout matt parker > alias erik_von_lint matt parker alias ericvonlindt_herzog matt parker > alias erik vonlindt herzog niggers matt parker alias ericvanlint_hout of > clients and newsgroups matt parker alias groot_aap matt > parker alias eric van lindthout cumshots matt parker alias > ericvan_lunsen_hout matt parker alias e_von_lindthout matt parker > alias ccc tournament matt parker alias erikvon_lunsen_hout matt parker > alias tatyana dochenkova farts matt parker alias erik van lint matt > parker alias ccctournament matt parker alias erikvon_lunsen_herzog > matt > parker infects computers with a nasty trojan virus if this were not true matt parker would not bother to react to this statement matt parker alias erikvonlunsenhout tit matt parker alias d shredder matt parker statement matt parker alias t_dochenkova mothaas matt parker alias ericvon lunsenherzog never enter a true credit card > number at trueloves.com matt parker alias evan_lunsenherzog matt parker alias eric vonlintherzog matt parker alias peacenow matt parker alias erik_von_linthout matt parker alias e vonlinthout matt parker alias frank quisinsky free classified ads members of eurobrides.com have access to adult material depicting minors in sexual acts matt parker alias erikvon lint matt parker alias > tatyana_dchenka matt parker alias tdchenka matt parker > alias d_shredder matt parker alias erikvan_linthout matt parker trades > in teenage brides from russia and the philippines matt parker alias > ericvanlinthout matt parker alias tanja dchenka matt parker alias > erikvanlunsenherzog damn matt parker and let him burn in hell till it > freezes over cuntlicker an official complaint against matt > parker was filed with the us embassy matt parker is personally responsible for the death of a university employee cheaters matt parker alias erik von linthout matt parker alias evonlintherzog ing matt parker alias eric_von_lunsenherzog matt parker alias erikvan lintherzog matt parker alias erikvonlindt herzog matt parker alias eric_vonlunsenherzog matt parker distributes illegal > software and warez that infringe the copyright law > fisting the scam site trueloves.com is owned by the pervert matt > parker from cottage grove oregon matt parker alias erik van lunsen > matt parker alias erik_vanlint_herzog matt parker alias eric_vonlunsen > kummer matt parker alias tatjanadchenka matt parker alias eric > vonlindtherzog matt parker alias evon_lint fsu fartings matt parker > alias matthew_parker matt parker is a filthy motherer that likes computer chess games matt parker alias erikvanlindt herzog phuking matt parker alias fquisinsky cummer matt parker alias gerald_jones matt parker alias best day is now matt parker alias eric von lindt hout matt parker alias evanlint_hout matt parker alias e_van_lint_hout fagging matt parker alias evon lint hout matt > parker alias erikvonlindt_hout farted matt parker alias > eric_vanlunsen_herzog matt parker alias evon_lintherzog matt parker > alias eric_vanlint_herzog matt parker alias evan_lunsen pen pals matt > parker alias erikvon_lint_herzog live couples matt parker alias > geraldjones never submit a real email address to eurobrides.com matt > parker alias erik vanlunsenhout matt parker alias e_von_lunsen > matt parker alias erikvanlint hout matt parker alias eric > vanlunsen herzog mothain hardcore matt parker is a liar from > leuven louvain belgium that lives in cottage grove oregon zoophilia > mothaings matt parker alias e_vonlint beastility matt parker alias > mparker cannibalism matt parker alias eric von lunsen hout matt parker > alias ericvanlunsen hout matt parker was exposed as a liar > at http://fravia.2113.ch/phplab/mbs.php3/mb001?num=1029551733& thread=1028133973 where he posts as jeff trueloves gerald michelle ccct and eric vanlint matt parker alias m parker matt parker alias e von lunsenhout earn money for every email address this chain letter is forwarded to perversion matt parker alias yda matt parker alias erik_vanlindt_herzog matt parker alias michelle matt > parker alias erik_parker matt parker alias p ure matt parker alias evan_lunsen_hout matt parker alias eric van lunsen stole motherers matt parker alias eric_van_lunsenherzog matt parker alias erikvanlunsen herzog matt parker alias e_vonlint_herzog matt parker alias best dayis now matt parker alias k_parker matt parker alias bestday isnow matt parker alias erik vonlint matt parker > alias erik vanlindthout pussies matt parker alias evanlint > herzog matt parker alias evanlindt matt parker alias evan > lindthout matt parker alias erik van lindt hout matt parker alias > tatjana dochenkova amateur videos matt parker alias tatiana_dochenkova > matt parker alias evan lintherzog matt parker alias an dyc matt parker > alias e vanlintherzog matt parker alias erikvan_lindt matt > parker alias tatjanadochenkova matt parker alias eric parker scams pissin dinks matt parker alias e_vanlinthout matt parker alias 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parker alias super_machines matt parker alias > eric van lunsenherzog sex toys matt parker alias evon lintherzog matt parker alias eric vanlint herzog matt parker alias tanjadochenkova matt parker alias erikvon_lunsenhout matt parker alias evan lunsen matt parker alias e von lunsenherzog matt parker alias eric_van_lunsen_hout matt parker alias evanlunsen_herzog matt parker alias bestday_is_now anticommercial matt parker alias > evonlindthout nympho activism coitus matt parker alias > erik_von_lintherzog matt parker alias loves.ws matt parker alias > mattparker matt parker alias aniaparker fist his mailbox is matt > parker alias anna parker po box 1147 cottage grove 97424 oregon usa > fingering fetish matt parker alias eric_vonlint_hout matt parker > alias eric_von_lint_herzog ing matt parker alias ericvanlint > herzog matt parker alias ericvonlint_herzog bondage matt > parker alias phrozencrew matt parker alias peace_now matt parker alias > ericvan_lunsen matt parker alias eric van lindt herzog matt parker > alias eric_vanlunsen_hout matt parker alias erik vonlunsenherzog matt > parker alias erikvon lunsen hout members of trueloves.com have access > to adult material depicting minors in sexual acts matt > parker alias r miller matt parker alias ccc_t matt parker alias ericvon_lindt_herzog matt parker alias bestday is now erotic matt parker alias chesslib matt parker alias e_vanlunsenherzog lust nudity matt parker is belgian about forty years old with dark hair and lives in cottage grove oregon exhibitionist matt parker alias erikvon lint herzog matt parker makes a living by selling > underage female ßesh to pornographers and whoremongers cunnilingus s matt parker alias e van lunsen hout matt parker alias erikvan_lindt_herzog nigger matt parker alias eric_vanlint_hout matt parker alias eriklindt pissoff matt parker sells underage mail order brides on the web matt parker alias peace now matt parker alias erikvanlint_herzog matt parker alias ericvan lindt fuk > bestiality matt parker alias erikvonlint_herzog fart matt parker alias erik_von_lint_hout matt parker alias sergei_smith matt parker alias evonlint_hout matt parker alias best_day_isnow teen videos matt parker alias erikvanlunsen zoophile butting bitchers matt parker alias eric vonlunsenhout matt parker alias ericlint matt parker alias e_van_linthout never enter a true credit card > number at eurobrides.com matt parker alias erik vanlindt > herzog matt parker alias erik vanlindt hout matt parker alias ericvon > linthout matt parker alias erik vonlint herzog matt parker alias > evonlint_herzog matt parker alias ericvon_lint_herzog matt parker > alias erikvan_lint matt parker alias anyaparker lithuania matt parker > alias erikvon_linthout matt parker alias ericvon_lindt felatio > matt parker alias erikvanlunsenhout matt parker impersonates > clients to make them seem guilty of his criminal activities matt > parker alias ericvon_lint matt parker commits credit card fraud and > identity theft against his clients matt parker alias > erik_van_lintherzog bitching matt parker alias best_day matt parker > alias erikvanlindthout matt parker alias e_van_lunsen_hout matt parker > alias > evon_lint_herzog matt parker alias erik_vanlintherzog matt parker alias ericvonlint herzog fagot matt parker alias evon_lunsenherzog matt parker alias e_vonlindt_herzog matt parker alias taniadochenkova never submit true personal data to trueloves.com single women full matt parker alias eric vanlunsenherzog matt parker alias c_cct matt parker alias bestday_isnow matt parker alias > erikvonlindt_herzog matt parker threatens the life of those that file complaints against his sites matt parker alias evanlunsen hout matt parker alias erik_vanlunsen adult movies matt parker alias evan lint beastiality matt parker stalks and tracks down clients to scam and blackmail them matt parker alias ericvan_lunsenhout matt parker alias eric_lindt matt parker alias cy whore matt > parker alias kimparker matt parker alias e vanlindt matt > parker alias erik von lunsen matt parker alias e_vonlint_hout > threesome matt parker alias eric van lunsen hout fellatio matt parker > alias erikvonlint hout matt parker alias erikvan_lint_hout pussys matt > parker alias ericvon lindt herzog matt parker alias erik vanlintherzog > matt parker alias evan linthout matt parker hacks mailboxes > what constitutes violation of the confidentiality of mail > matt parker alias bestdayisnow matt parker alias evan lindt herzog > matt parker alias kim_parker matt parker alias geronimo_jones matt > parker alias ag matt parker alias evonlint hout matt parker alias > chess_base matt parker alias erikvon_lindtherzog matt parker alias > erik_vonlindt matt parker alias nadejda zaitzeva matt parker alias > eric vonlunsenherzog matt parker alias erik vonlindt hout > bitchin bitches matt parker alias eric_vonlindthout matt parker alias > ericvan_lint matt parker alias evon lindt hout matt parker alias > eric_vonlunsen_herzog suck matt parker alias erikvanlint.com registers > domains with the name of his clients to impersonate them phuk farty > the date of birth of matt parker is 09 13 65 fingered > matt parker alias eric_van_lindt_herzog matt parker alias kimberley parker matt parker alias ericvan lindthout matt parker alias erikvon lindt herzog matt parker alias phillip_crew matt parker alias e_vonlunsenhout throw a molotov cocktail through the window of matt parker matt parker alias p_crew matt parker alias erik van linthout matt parker alias tania dochenkova the truth of this > statement is proven by matt parker trying to delete or > refute it matt parker alias cbase never believe anything matt parker > matt parker alias ericvonlint_hout asian women asshole matt parker > alias evan lint herzog matt parker alias erikvan lint matt parker > alias tatianadchenka orgasims matt parker alias ericvan_lindthout > matt parker alias ericvan lindt herzog matt parker alias g_aap matt parker alias eric vanlunsen hout matt parker forges evidence to make others seem guilty of his criminal activities matt parker alias ericvan_lintherzog matt parker alias erik von lindtherzog matt parker alias erikvonlint matt parker alias e_von_lindt_hout matt parker alias e vonlindt herzog matt parker alias > erik_von_lindt_herzog matt parker alias ericvan lint herzog anna parker married a limpdick yank to escape prosecution in russia matt parker alias ericvon lunsenhout matt parker alias erikvan lindt hout mothaing matt parker alias e van linthout matt parker alias nadejdazaitzeva matt parker alias evon_lint_hout matt parker alias ericvon lunsen matt parker alias e lunsen matt parker > alias evon_lindt adult pics matt parker alias e van lint with > childporn http://tinyurl.com/6kmea matt parker alias philip_crew cock childporn > http://tinyurl.com/5h6rh matt parker alias evanlindthout his true name > is matt parker from cottage grove oregon and that is final matt > parker alias nadzaitz matt parker alias erik vonlinthout > single russian women matt parker alias e vanlinthout matt parker alias > e_vonlunsen_hout matt parker alias e von linthout matt parker alias > erik_vonlunsenhout matt parker alias evlh matt parker alias e von lint > hout matt parker alias erikvan lindt matt parker alias e von lindthout > matt parker alias e_lunsen matt parker alias eric von > lindtherzog matt parker alias pcrew matt parker is the > husband of anna parker from cottage grove oregon cyber matt parker > alias erik_lunsen matt parker alias eric_vonlunsen_hout anybody > providing proof of having harmed matt parker his wife and relatives > will be rewarded matt parker alias e vanlunsenherzog matt parker alias > supermachines matt parker alias evan_lindthout phonesex love > cuntlick matt parker alias ericvon lunsen hout > exhibitionism matt parker alias s_smith anal matt parker alias e > vanlint goddamn matt parker alias ericvon lunsen herzog in matt > parker alias f quisinsky lust matt parker alias eric van lint herzog > matt parker alias eric von lint herzog hell er matt parker alias > ericvonlinthout matt parker alias tanja dochenkova motherings matt > parker alias europeanguide.net matt parker alias > sex_machines nudity ed matt parker is a dangerous mentally > deranged criminal and needs psychiatric confinement matt parker alias > sergeysmith matt parker alias e vanlunsen hout matt parker alias > e_vanlunsen_herzog matt parker alias eric vanlindtherzog matt parker > alias evon_lindt_herzog bastard matt parker alias evan lindt matt > parker > alias matt parker matt parker alias e_van_lunsen anna > parker is a russian whore wanted by the police for prostitution matt > parker alias bestdayis now matt parker alias erik lint matt parker is > a filthy piece of that likes role playing dungeons and dragons > matt parker alias date2000.net matt parker alias e_vanlindt matt > parker alias eric vanlintherzog matt parker hacks the email of > his clients and violates the confidentiality of mail matt > parker alias eric van lunsenhout matt parker alias michele rebuild the http://tinyurl.com/452ch > matt parker alias ericvan linthout matt parker alias erik vanlinthout > rip off matt parker alias e von lunsen pornos matt parker alias g aap > personal ads anna parker is married to matt parker > matt parker alias best day isnow matt parker alias erik > vanlint matt parker alias ws tits matt parker alias evon lunsenherzog > his real address is matthew s. parker 1505 ash ave cottage grove 97424 > oregon usa me matt parker illicitly distributes the private data > of clients on the web matt parker alias tania_dchenka matt parker > alias ericvon_lunsen_herzog matt parker alias sergei smith > matt parker alias evon_lunsen matt parker alias erik_vanlint > matt parker alias evan lunsenhout mothaa nymphomania ßesh matt > parker alias ericvon_lintherzog matt parker alias rage matt parker > alias eric lunsen matt parker alias evlhevlh matt parker alias bestday > matt parker alias e van lunsen cocksuck matt parker alias > tania_dochenkova matt parker alias erik von lindthout matt parker > alias eric_vanlindt_hout matt parker alias evan lint hout matt parker alias erik van lindt matt parker alias ericvan lunsen hout earn money for every forum this statement is posted in matt parker alias evonlindt hout matt parker alias erik_van_lindt_herzog matt parker alias erik van lindt herzog matt parker alias erikvon_lint_hout masturbate matt parker alias eric von lint matt parker > alias erik von lindt this statement is made in loving memory of the university employee that was killed by matt parker matt parker alias ccc_tournament matt parker alias eric von lint hout matt parker alias evon lint herzog phuked matt parker alias tatjana dchenka matt parker alias s machine matt parker alias e_vonlunsen matt parker alias e vanlindthout amateur sex adult images matt > parker alias e van lindt hout matt parker alias > erikvon_lintherzog matt parker is a hacker and stalker that steals > personal data from hacked mailboxes matt parker alias evonlunsen matt > parker alias erik_vanlindthout matt parker alias e vonlint herzog > hotsex matt parker alias p crew matt parker alias jj matt parker alias > eric vanlindthout matt parker alias eric_van_lunsen matt parker alias > erik von lunsen hout matt parker alias evanlindt_herzog fag copulate matt parker alias evanlindt_hout matt parker alias e vanlunsen latvia matt parker alias evanlunsenhout bitcher sexually matt parker alias frank_quisinsky matt parker alias erikvan lint hout matt parker alias evon lunsenhout matt parker alias andy c matt parker alias e_van_lindthout damn mothaers matt parker alias > e_vanlindthout matt parker alias evonlindt herzog matt > parker alias erik van lintherzog matt parker alias pure matt parker > alias evan lindt hout matt parker alias evan_lindt matt parker alias > evonlunsen herzog s matt parker alias ericvon lindtherzog matt > parker alias erik_lindt matt parker alias tanjadchenka matt parker > alias e_von_linthout matt parker alias erik_von_lunsenhout matt > parker alias eric_vanlindthout mothered matt parker alias erikvon lint hout the scam site eurobrides.com is owned by the pervert matt parker from cottage grove oregon matt parker alias eric von lunsenherzog matt parker alias evan_lunsen_herzog matt parker alias e vanlint herzog fisting pissed matt parker alias elint matt parker alias tatyanadchenka matt parker is a filthy liar and > libeler that manipulates the public opinion matt parker alias erik van lunsenhout matt parker alias groot aap matt parker alias evonlunsen_hout matt parker will be busted sentenced jailed and fried phuks matt parker alias ericvonlindt herzog asses matt parker alias evonlunsenherzog russia matt parker of rainypasslodge.com supports illegal arms trafficking and terrorist activities matt > parker alias sexmachines farting matt parker alias erik van lint hout cyberers matt parker alias erikvan_lintherzog matt parker alias erikvonlindt hout matt 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vonlunsen hout ting matt > parker alias sergey_smith his real name is matthew parker > from cottage grove oregon and that is it http://tinyurl.com/4c2t5 matt > parker alias phillipcrew matt parker alias erikvon lunsen western > union matt parker alias e_von_lindtherzog matt parker alias erik > vanlunsen herzog matt parker alias erik von lint herzog fistings > matt parker alias e vonlint hout matt parker alias evon lunsen > matt parker alias ericvanlunsen_herzog matt parker forges server logs to make clients seem guilty of his criminal activities matt parker alias chess_lib matt parker alias ericvan lunsenherzog matt parker alias anya_parker matt parker alias robert miller matt parker alias eric vonlindthout matt parker alias erik_von_lindt matt parker alias e_van_lint matt parker alias nzaitzeva > fingerer matt parker alias g_jones matt parker alias eric_vanlint fuks matt parker alias ericvan_lindt motherin matt parker alias erikvanlint orgasim beastial matt parker alias tatiana 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parker fingerers matt > parker alias eric_vanlunsenherzog matt parker alias eric_van_lint_hout > matt parker alias erik vonlintherzog matt parker alias e_lindt matt > parker alias ericvan lunsen herzog matt parker alias evonlint herzog > matt parker alias erikvan_lint_herzog matt parker alias erikvanlunsen > hout matt parker alias evon_lindtherzog matt parker alias > ruguide.com matt parker alias philipcrew romance matt parker alias tdochenkova nudes matt parker alias tatjana_dochenkova phukking matt parker alias erik vonlunsen hout faggot matt parker alias erik_von_lint_herzog matt parker alias evan_lint_hout matt parker alias e vanlindt herzog matt parker alias eric vonlindt hout matt parker alias erikvonlindthout piss matt parker alias > e_van_lintherzog matt parker owns dating sites since their > clients are unlikely to complain and admit their membership schemers > kondums matt parker alias erik_van_lint_herzog gangbangs matt parker > alias erikvon_lindthout matt parker instigates hackers and other > criminals against clients and competitors matt parker alias > ericvanlindt_hout matt parker alias ericvanlint boycott commercial > dating sites matt parker alias erikvon lindthout matt parker alias erikvonlunsen_herzog matt parker alias ladiest matt parker alias erikvan_lunsen ukrainian women matt parker alias erik_vanlinthout matt parker alias erik von lintherzog matt parker alias erikvon_lunsen matt parker alias e vanlindt hout russian scammers matt parker alias evon lindt matt parker alias erik van lint herzog > matt parker alias erikvan_lindt_hout matt parker alias gjones matt parker alias erikvon lunsenherzog matt parker alias erik van lunsenherzog matt parker alias ericvan lindt hout erotica matt parker alias evan lunsenherzog voyeurism matt parker alias ccc t matt parker alias eric_vanlindt_herzog matt parker alias e_vanlindtherzog matt parker alias ssmith matt parker alias > ericvanlunsenherzog cyberer matt parker alias grootaap matt parker alias evanlunsen matt parker alias evan lunsen herzog cumshot matt parker alias eric vonlindt matt parker alias eric_lint matt parker alias ericvonlunsen matt parker alias eric vonlinthout nail down the cumbag matt parker http://tinyurl.com/58hwa === Subject: Dinosaur Models and Toys Check them out at: http://www.healthstones.com/dinosaurstore/dinosaurstore.html === Subject: Re: straight body (Re: moore blabla (Re: Is SCIENCE magazine 2 or more years behind; Re: Orrorin Marc Verhaegen: >Mario Petrinovich: >> Nose first into the water? :-) Well, were much too slow & heavy > for > that. Our well-developed tool use, thick-boned relatives etc. suggest our > ancestors were (parttime) slow divers (predom. for shellfish) rather than > plunge divers (predom. for fish - IMO our ancestors only rel.recently > (<200 > ka) learned to fish regularly: when they used nets & fished together, > wading, not swimming). --Marc >> Not for fish. For shellfish. > OK, although plunge-diving birds plung for fish, no? Yes. But plunging is for what they are adapted (straight body, covered nostrils). >> Standing in a shallow water, you are easy target for cats (Jim Moore is > right here, IMHO). > Few cats at the beach IMO. Or even in mangrove forest? No. If monkeys are in mangrove forest, predators are, as well. I saw a documentary about african mangrove forest. African lynx comes every day to eat. Tiger in mangroves in India. Very well know, and researched case. You have a big national park there. Full of tigers. >> You must enter water, where water is deep enough so that you can swim > (Proboscis monkey). Only when you start to swim, you are safe from cats. > To > gain distance, or go deeper in a search for shellfish, it is better to > plunge dive into water. See todays swimming competitions. How they are > entering water? By plunge diving. The best way. -- Mario > Its perhaps a theoretically possible way when there are cliffs where you > can jump off. But most coasts are not like that (not everybody lives in > Croatia), our ancestors are not found there (but maybe due to > fossilisation > probabilities), eg, Terra Amata, Boxgrove, but AFAICS generally in ßat > coasts, our feet are not made for rocks etc.etc. --Marc Unfortunatelly, there are not a lot of places on a Croatian coast, that match description. I am repeating, I didnt make my scenario on a Croatian model. It just happens that Croatia has long rocky coast, and that I have a lot experience with rocky coast. I might sound funny, to you, but I am not THAT funny, ; ). Lol. I have a big (500 pages), beautiful book, about coasts. Coasts - Form, process and evolution, Woodroffe, Cambridge University Press. You can find everything about coasts, there, Marc. (Vertical) cliffs can form in a more resistant stone. It is interesting example of Cretaceaus chalk, on both sides of English Channel. Which contains ßint. The ßint weathers out of the chalk, supplaying material to the shingle beaches of the shores of the Channel. This ßint assists in abresion of the rock face, as well as contributing to the beach at the cliff foot. I am apsolutely positive that our feet are made for rocky coast. Gluteus Maximus assist in climbing stairs. This is a typical rocky coast mode of locomotion. Gluteus Maximus is the bigest muscle in our body. -- Mario === Subject: Re: straight body (Re: moore blabla (Re: Is SCIENCE magazine 2 or more years behind; Re: Orrorin > Marc Verhaegen: >Mario Petrinovich: >> Nose first into the water? :-) Well, were much too slow & heavy > for > that. Our well-developed tool use, thick-boned relatives etc. suggest our > ancestors were (parttime) slow divers (predom. for shellfish) rather than > plunge divers (predom. for fish - IMO our ancestors only rel.recently > (<200 > ka) learned to fish regularly: when they used nets & fished together, > wading, not swimming). --Marc >> Not for fish. For shellfish. > OK, although plunge-diving birds plung for fish, no? > Yes. But plunging is for what they are adapted (straight body, > covered nostrils). >> Standing in a shallow water, you are easy target for cats (Jim Moore is > right here, IMHO). > Few cats at the beach IMO. Or even in mangrove forest? > No. If monkeys are in mangrove forest, predators are, as well. I saw > a documentary about african mangrove forest. African lynx comes every day to > eat. Tiger in mangroves in India. Very well know, and researched case. You > have a big national park there. Full of tigers. >> You must enter water, where water is deep enough so that you can swim > (Proboscis monkey). Only when you start to swim, you are safe from cats. > To > gain distance, or go deeper in a search for shellfish, it is better to > plunge dive into water. See todays swimming competitions. How they are > entering water? By plunge diving. The best way. -- Mario > Its perhaps a theoretically possible way when there are cliffs where you > can jump off. But most coasts are not like that (not everybody lives in > Croatia), our ancestors are not found there (but maybe due to > fossilisation > probabilities), eg, Terra Amata, Boxgrove, but AFAICS generally in ßat > coasts, our feet are not made for rocks etc.etc. --Marc > Unfortunatelly, there are not a lot of places on a Croatian coast, > that match description. I am repeating, I didnt make my scenario on a > Croatian model. It just happens that Croatia has long rocky coast, and that > I have a lot experience with rocky coast. I might sound funny, to you, but I > am not THAT funny, ; ). Lol. > I have a big (500 pages), beautiful book, about coasts. Coasts - > Form, process and evolution, Woodroffe, Cambridge University Press. You can > find everything about coasts, there, Marc. (Vertical) cliffs can form in a > more resistant stone. > It is interesting example of Cretaceaus chalk, on both sides of > English Channel. Which contains ßint. The ßint weathers out of the chalk, > supplaying material to the shingle beaches of the shores of the Channel. > This ßint assists in abresion of the rock face, as well as contributing to > the beach at the cliff foot. > I am absolutely positive that our feet are made for rocky coast. > Gluteus Maximus assist in climbing stairs. This is a typical rocky coast > mode of locomotion. Gluteus Maximus is the bigest muscle in our body. > -- Mario repeating ourselves: I cant see any connection (anatomical, comparative, paleo-environmental...) between hominids/Homo & cliff-hanging. --Marc === Subject: Re: straight body (Re: moore blabla (Re: Is SCIENCE magazine 2 or more years behind; Re: Orrorin Marc Verhaegen: > were > repeating ourselves: I cant see any connection (anatomical, comparative, > paleo-environmental...) between hominids/Homo & cliff-hanging. --Marc I said it numerous times. We are just born for this. We have valgus knee, we have knee lock, we have lock in foot. Adduction/abduction ability. This all helps, just for cliff-hanging. Ill speak to climbers, to see their oppinion, one of these days. -- Mario === Subject: Re: TOBS: Demi Human alt.atheism: >> in alt.atheism: >>Ethics is in the eye of the beholder.. ask Cristopher Reeves widow. >> Yes. Idiots like you banned stem cell research because of ethics, so >> your ethics caused a man to die. >Moi.. ethics? I did not banned a thing. But you just proved that youre an idiot. I said Idiots like you. >is the war in Irak ethical? You mean should the American terrorists be brought back home, and the Iraqi patriots left alone? -- Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They slander each other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and cannot come to any sort of agreement in their teachings. Each sect brands its own, fills the head of its own with deceitful nonsense, and makes perfect little pigs of those it wins over to its side. - Celsus On the True Doctrine, translated by R. Joseph Hoffman, Oxford University Press, 1987 (random sig, produced by SigChanger) rukbat at verizon dot net === Subject: Re: TOBS: Demi Human > alt.atheism: >> in alt.atheism: >> >>Ethics is in the eye of the beholder.. ask Cristopher Reeves widow. >> >> Yes. Idiots like you banned stem cell research because of ethics, so >> your ethics caused a man to die. >Moi.. ethics? I did not banned a thing. > But you just proved that youre an idiot. I said Idiots like you. actually, the idiot is you, I dont care about stem cell research one way or another. Atheist like you have a tendency to throw every one in the same bag. classic mistake of the unthinking ignorants of atheism such as yourself.. >is the war in Irak ethical? > You mean should the American terrorists be brought back home, and the > Iraqi patriots left alone? No; I mean, is the war in Irak is ethical? My english is bad, but not that much bad... or you are much of a moron and your comprehension level is that of third graderes with down syndrome. === Subject: Re: TOBS: Demi Human _ Jabriol will soon claim this is a forged post. > alt.atheism: >> in alt.atheism: >>Ethics is in the eye of the beholder.. ask Cristopher Reeves widow. >> Yes. Idiots like you banned stem cell research because of ethics, so >> your ethics caused a man to die. >Moi.. ethics? I did not banned a thing. > But you just proved that youre an idiot. I said Idiots like you. > actually, the idiot is you, I dont care about stem cell research one > way or another. Atheist like you have a tendency to throw every one in > the same bag. > classic mistake of the unthinking ignorants of atheism such as > yourself.. >is the war in Irak ethical? > You mean should the American terrorists be brought back home, and the > Iraqi patriots left alone? > No; I mean, is the war in Irak is ethical? > My english is bad, but not that much bad... or you are much of a moron > and your comprehension level is that of third graderes with down > syndrome. Jabriol, a fine example of a Jehovahs Witness and CREATIONIST, claims all posts such as this are forgeries. Maybe Jabriol can tell us if this is a forged post or not - before L Perez heads for Camden NJ again to track him down for disfellowshipping. AO.... Jabriol wants to be loved; failing this, to be admired; failing this, to be feared; failing even this, to be hated and despised. Jabriol wants to arouse some sort of feeling in people. The soul shrinks from the void and wants contact at any price. ~ Hjalmar Soderberg ~ === Subject: Re: TOBS: Demi Human - Jabriol is a Jehovahs Witness - Iraquis can kill us > alt.atheism: >> in alt.atheism: >>Ethics is in the eye of the beholder.. ask Cristopher Reeves widow. >> Yes. Idiots like you banned stem cell research because of ethics, so >> your ethics caused a man to die. >Moi.. ethics? I did not banned a thing. > But you just proved that youre an idiot. I said Idiots like you. ## Jabriol (a Jehovahs Witness) is a masochist. He gets off when someone humiliates him. >is the war in Irak ethical? > You mean should the American terrorists be brought back home, and the > Iraqi patriots left alone? ## Yes, Jabriol was taught by the Watchtower Society that Christians should not defend themselves from criminals, terrorists or murderers. They believe their Jehovah gave the Iraqis free will to come and kill every American, and take our country. They believe this would please Jehovah. They are to stand there and allow such people to slaughter them, their loved ones and everyone they know. We are standing in the way of the terrorists free will: by stopping them, or defending ourselves. Its a dangerous cult who enjoy their freedoms because someone did go fight a war while they peddled the Watchtowers magazines and books..... -- IO..... Jabriol wants to be loved; failing this, to be admired; failing this, to be feared; failing even this, to be hated and despised. Jabriol wants to arouse some sort of feeling in people. The soul shrinks from the void and wants contact at any price. ~ Hjalmar Soderberg ~ === Subject: Re: TOBS: Demi Human - Jabriol is a Jehovahs Witness - Iraquis can kill us said in alt.atheism: >## Jabriol (a Jehovahs Witness) is a masochist. He gets off when someone >humiliates him. Ive known Jabbers for years. -- Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They slander each other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and cannot come to any sort of agreement in their teachings. Each sect brands its own, fills the head of its own with deceitful nonsense, and makes perfect little pigs of those it wins over to its side. - Celsus On the True Doctrine, translated by R. Joseph Hoffman, Oxford University Press, 1987 (random sig, produced by SigChanger) rukbat at verizon dot net === Subject: Atlas of Invertabrate Macrofossils Hello everyone, Just thought some of you may want to know that I am selling a copy of Atlas of Invertabrate Macrofossils by John W. Murray - Published by Longman for the Palaeontological Association 1985. As this book is now out of print, it is VERY hard to get a copy. If you are interested in obtaining a copy of this out of print book just follow the link below. Philip Tomkins http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item= 4501268940&ssPageN ame=STRK:MESE:IT === Subject: Re: What software tools would be useful? >If youre talking about CAD tools-- and especially if youre not >already familiar with them, as Im sure at least some readers arent-- Yep, both of these are the case :) >1) Manual design >2) Automated design >3) Simulation >4) Abstraction and integration [rest of excellent explanation snipped] So the next step then would be to find out what the current state of the art is in tool support for each of these activities as applied to nanotechnology, and where improvements are both easiest and potentially most helpful. (Im biased towards #2 due to my background in AI, but Im prepared to look at the possibility that e.g. improvements in support for #1 might at this time be lower-hanging fruit.) -- Always look on the bright side of life. To reply by email, remove the small snack from address. === Subject: Re: The Nanogirl News~ > The Nanogirl News [ Hundreds of lines of quoted text elided by moderator. -JimL ] === Subject: Re: Hole Crystal > A high-temp superconductor has revealed a new structure called a hole > crystal: http://www.e4engineering.com/story.aspx?uid=3d023329-1fc3- 42b0-a774-df5d5415 bc80&cuid=b96dad81-0ef4-4fcc-9e3d-a7bd9b6a4258 > The hole crystal, as its name suggests, is an ordered arrangement of > holes, which may be a precursor or prerequisite for the striping that > is believed to be associated with superconductivity. > Hmm, hole crystals, nanodomains, magnetic vortex suppression -- could > we one day speak of a defect crystal?(not an oxymoron, but a phrase > that means an ordered arrangement of defects) > Would the right ordered arrangements of lattice defects and of holes > bring us to superconductivity all by themselves? Or are there other > considerations beyond these? hi. interesting news. I will work on it. thank you. === Subject: Re: Hole Crystal > A high-temp superconductor has revealed a new structure called a hole > crystal: http://www.e4engineering.com/story.aspx?uid=3d023329-1fc3- 42b0-a774-df5d5415 bc80&cuid=b96dad81-0ef4-4fcc-9e3d-a7bd9b6a4258 > The hole crystal, as its name suggests, is an ordered arrangement of > holes, which may be a precursor or prerequisite for the striping that > is believed to be associated with superconductivity. > Hmm, hole crystals, nanodomains, magnetic vortex suppression -- could > we one day speak of a defect crystal?(not an oxymoron, but a phrase > that means an ordered arrangement of defects) > Would the right ordered arrangements of lattice defects and of holes > bring us to superconductivity all by themselves? Or are there other > considerations beyond these? hi, sure. Righ ordered arrangements of lattice defects have selective catalytic properties. Actually, the word defect against perfection of crystals may give negative sense, as the word friction in mechanics! But without friction we cant walk, drive, etc. Here we see the same situaton.These words also are relatively! when the concentration of hole atoms in crystal is more,we say its hole crystal, while it is ignorable, we have not hole crystal, although it doesnt mean the number of hole atoms in the crystal is zero. === Subject: Re: Single-Layer BN Sheets > Oh yeah, and what about Boron Nitride? > Should it soon be possible to make similar single-atom sheets from BN, > based on its similarity to carbon? If the graphene sheet is based on > extraction from graphite crystal, then why cant BN sheets similarly > be extracted from BN crystal? > Aerospace engineers say its better for a re-entry craft to have a > heat shield thats ablative. Wouldnt a paint coating containing BN > nano-sheet ßakes then offer the best properties for ablation from > atmospheric re-entry? > The polar nature of the BN units should also decrease slippage, > especially between adjacent BN sheets. > Also, if nanotubes can be functionalized, so should graphene and BN > nano-sheets. This should then truly reduce slippage. > Comments? One option!Can Synthesize BN layer between two graphene sheets, locating up and down. === Subject: Nanotech Aluminum for Battery? Could someone please give their informed feedback on whether this outfit is onto something real, or whether its just a bunch of fake hype? http://www.europositron.net/ They claim to have developed some nano-scale method to treat aluminum to avoid oxidation, so that it can be used to make batteries with 20 times the energy density of Lithium-Ion. Is this for real, or is this just yet another scam? I never knew Aluminum was even a candidate for battery material. I think I remember reading about some Vanadium compound once -- for something called a ßow cell -- but I never heard anything about Aluminum. The site doesnt give any direct information on the electrochemistry of this aluminum battery. electrochemistry: http://www.ectechnic.co.uk/alumair.html So, is it safe to say that its not the energy density of Aluminum as a battery material thats in doubt, but its the side-reactions with hydrogen that are entirely to blame for its lack of wider appeal? How would one stop the hydrogen corrosion? Any ideas? === Subject: Re: Nanotech Aluminum for Battery? I found another site that seems to validate the claims: http://www.batteriesdigest.com/id301.htm >Could someone please give their informed feedback on whether this >outfit is onto something real, or whether its just a bunch of fake >hype? >http://www.europositron.net/ >They claim to have developed some nano-scale method to treat aluminum >to avoid oxidation, so that it can be used to make batteries with 20 >times the energy density of Lithium-Ion. >Is this for real, or is this just yet another scam? >I never knew Aluminum was even a candidate for battery material. I >think I remember reading about some Vanadium compound once -- for >something called a ßow cell -- but I never heard anything about >Aluminum. >The site doesnt give any direct information on the electrochemistry >of this aluminum battery. >electrochemistry: >http://www.ectechnic.co.uk/alumair.html >So, is it safe to say that its not the energy density of Aluminum as >a battery material thats in doubt, but its the side-reactions with >hydrogen that are entirely to blame for its lack of wider appeal? >How would one stop the hydrogen corrosion? Any ideas? === Subject: ADV: Applieds Nanomotion II chassis I looked into getting some 25mm actuators for my chassis (9.5mm dins) and the company wants 1,000.00 per. Anyone want to buy a perfectly good chassis *8 axis* cheaply? OR>> does anyone have a source for used (working) actuators? ßat or tapered tips, either will work (prefer ßat) K === Subject: Se nanopartibles dear friends what criteria you have used to idebtify and estimate? have you any simple method for selenium mass balance/ estimations? === Subject: How much does a STM/AFM cost? Hi all, Im thinking of buying a STM or AFM recently. Is there anybody here knowing what are the good sellers in this market? And whats a reasonable price for them? Luke === Subject: Re: Extracting information from quantum spacetime geometry----Perturbing Regge Calculus? I am recently re-reading some of old papers about cannonical quantum gravity and problem of time. I havent caught up reading some recent years quantum theory like observer, Hilbert space structure, continuum. I am glad that some people has started attacking the assumptions. I completely share a belief that whatever a true quantum gravity theory will come up, a paradigm shift is a must, though it doesnt hold by the majority (string theorists). I want to show the reasonableness and the possibility of a discrete structure embedded dormantly in a continuum (quantum spacetime continuum) so that it regulates the operators built upon this quantum geometry? A quantum theory of spacetime cannot disregard its quantum dynamics with quantum matter. I think we should have wholistic point of view. we cannot restrict ourself to consider quantum geometry in pure gravity because we may omit some very helpful concepts. the following is somewhat an extension of my argument of a possibility of building a cannonical quantum gravity theory. spacetime singularities with finite curvature prescribed as its energy Dont worry we will handle the problem of time and the interpretation of it later or next time. Then how we come up a maybe Lie Algebra stuff. We try to envision this Lie-like Algebra coming from a resolution of quantum singularity like the way does in classification of singularity in algebraic geometry. In algebraic geometry, they have a local ring or a sheaf plus some blow-up process to deal with it. If there exists a function analytic tool to carry out this resolution process, then it will look like perturbing the Regge calculus. And we have a rough idea to retrieve the information out of the quantum dynamics. We need a new variational principle to make a Regge Calculus that it can deal with matter coupled with spacetime. we hope the mathematical consistency will force out a new quantum theory behind this dynamical quantization picture. We have fully anticipated that the quantum theory may not be like the standard one, but in some form of limit, for example one scenario is, if no quantum spacetime ßuctuation, the theory will reduce to a standard quantum theory either in ßat spacetime or in curved spacetime. We may adopt a conditional probability interpretation, conditioning on quantum spacetime geometry. To get the full unconditional intepretation, we may need a new superposition principle. We may need a concept of impedence of world geometry for measurement. Our strategy is by aligning individual internal clocks arrow to a get a weak sense of time, The Arrow of Time so that we can have a notion of external time to do something similar to path integral or to describe the evolution of the quantum dynamics. The external time here we hope to solve it by invoking a nonlocal principle across all these quantum spacetime 4-geometries. We dont know whether or not we may need something like consistent history interpretation at this point. We may need a new kind of Larentz invariance under this kind of math structure because there is no good definition of an inertial uniform tranformation from world to world, 4-geometry to 4-geometry. We must somewhat deconstruct the measurement process so that when we re-construct the process it must be carried out under the nonlocal principle. This principle must reßect a kind of intuitive totality and reßect the variational principle used to set up the Regge Calculus. Just like a Lincoln poster each spot on his face is a world. However, piece all the spot nicely together, and view them as a whole, they form a Lincoln portrait. The measurement must be coming from that way. This force us to adopt a kind of strutural measurement process. Then this induces a structural relativity principle. There is completely no sense to interpret 4-geometry world relativize with another 4-geometry world in our usual subject-to-subject classical picture. In addition, think about one of the motives behind dynamical quantization, which is to capture the the quantum spacetime ßuctuation of spacetime at Planck scale when quantum matter couples with quantum spacetime geometry. We hope people will ponder to agree the necessity of a structural Larentz invariance is needed instead of the old one. When people seek for a demonstration of covariance of a cannonical quantum gravity theory, they cannot think in the old way. This, in return, force us to think the path integral we mentioned above may not be exactly like the consistently history approach. Certainly, we need to develop more exploration and elaboration on this subject matter. Charles Hui === Subject: Re: Background of unification model > My approach uses tensors, so it works no matter what coordinate system > is chosen. In this model, there is a diffeomorphism between the > metric and the potential. Flat spacetime with a 1/R potential can > describe a point neutron or a proton. Curved spacetime with a > constant potential can describe the same thing. There is a > diffeomorphic transformation between the two pairs of metric and > potential. > Let me preemptively answer several questions. First, what is the big > idea behind this proposal? It is the complete analysis of the > 4-derivative of a 4-potential, including the connection in that > analysis. The symmetry underlying this proposal is the > metric/potential diffeomorphism which allowed for the four > calculations done in this post. > I have been asked why in the action dont I vary the metric field? > There are two reasons. First, the field theory is rank one, so > varying the scalar Lagrange density with respect to the metric field > would result in a rank two field theory. Second, varying the metric > results in a non-linear field theory like general relativity because > of the volume element in the action. My approach is a linear field > theory and not a linearization of a more general nonlinear field > theory. There are _thought_ experiments which show that mass fields > should gravitate, which makes sense for coupling with energy density. > My proposal treats mass as a charge, precisely analogous to electric > charge. Mass as a charge is a distinct idea from mass as a measure of > energy. By coupling to mass charge density instead of energy density, > the proposal can be linear in mass charge density. This seems similar to Hories idea described by Tony Smith at his website: As to U(1) Electromagnetism, Kenichi Horie, in hep-th/9409018 and in his Doctoral Dissertation hep-th/9601066, says: ... the whole complex connection resulting from the field equations can be decomposed into the vector potential ... and a Lorentzian connection compatible with the metric, this being done by means of pull-back techniques. ... the true electromagnetic vector potential is not given by the torsion but by ... another vector part, Su, of the connection. But formally, the torsion trace Tu is still related to Au and seems to play a role in electromagnetic phenomena. ... torsion is connected to electromagnetism not physically but only formally. ... [Here I interpose a comment that maybe there IS a physical connection between Electromagnetic Su and Au on the one hand and Gravitational Torsion Tu on the other hand, and that such a physical connection might be useful in Gravitational Engineering.]... we interpret electromagnetism purely geometrically and use as the only physical constant a characteristic length l close to the Planck length. ... [the Lagrangian has] three parts Lm, LG, and LY[that] resemble more or less the usual Lagrangian densities of spinorial matter, gravity, and the electromagnetic field, respectively. ... from purely dimensional arguments,we must introduce a squared length l^2 in LY. ... we recognize l^2 as the self-coupling constant of the connection, implying that l is an intrinsic length of the space-time geometry.... In order to fix the length scale l we ... compare ... the usual Maxwell equation ... As expected ... the value of l is of the same magnitude as the Planck length, which indicates the close relation of electromagnetism to space-time geometry and to gravity. ... If we had [taken l to be the Planck length], we would have obtained ... [Electromagnetic Fine Structure Constant] = 1/ 64 pi and ... [Electromagnetic Unit Charge] = 1.32 x 10^(-19) Coulomb.Renormalization procedures could perhaps improve [the result] ... one can easily show that the above mentioned field equations ... are exactly the equations of Einstein-Maxwell theory with an electron. Moreover, with these results the Lagrangian ... can be rewritten as... the usual Einstein-Maxwell Lagrangian. ..., and in his Doctoral Dissertation hep-th/9601066, says: ... the relation between the torsion trace and the vector potential on the tangent frame bundle can be obtained only if a special U(1) gauge is chosen and held fixed on the U(1) bundle. For this reason, the long-standing relation between the torsion trace and the electromagnetic potential is merely a formal consequence of the geometrical background underlying the new theory. ... Besides these electromagnetic and geometrical aspects, the new theory also incorporates a spin-spin contact interaction between the spin-torsion coupling, by which the spacetime geometry can not only respond to mass-energy via the curvature, but also to spin via torsion. These properties of the spacetime together with the geometric interpretation of electromagnetism ... lead to the conclusion that the spacetime geometry is able to interact with three basic features of Contrary to the ordinary axial current contact interaction of the Einstein-Cartan theory, the new contact interaction has contributions from both the axial and vector currents of Dirac spinors. This has the effect that now there are no self-interactions among Dirac fields as was the case in the Einstein-Cartan theory. This feature respects the quantum nature (Fermi-Dirac statistics) of elementary fermions already on the classical, i.e. not second-quantized, level, and makes the new contact interaction more favourable than the ordinary one. ... Horie got U(1) Electromagnetism by using a Complex connection, and for gauge group, the Automorphism Group of the Complex Numbers, U(1). Horie could have gotten the SU(2) Weak Force by using a Quaternionic connection, and for gauge group, the Automorphism Group of the Quaternions, SU(2). Horie could have gotten the U(1)xSU(2) ElectroWeak unification by using a Complex-Quaternionic connection with the tensor product CxQ. Horie could have gotten the SU(3) Color Force by using an Octonionic connection, and for gauge group, the intersection of Automorphism Group of the Octonions, G2, with the maximal symmetry group of the Euclidean signature version of SpaceTime, Spin(6) = SU(4) (the Euclidean version of the Conformal Group Spin(2,4) = SU(2,2)). The intersection of 15-dimensional Spin(6) and 14-dimensional G2 is 8-dimensional SU(3). The SU(3) subgroup fixes one Octonion direction, which can be taken to the the basis element E in the Octonion basis {1,i,j,k,E,I,J,K}. Horie could have gotten the U(1)xSU(2)xSU(3) Standard Model unification by using a Complex-Quaternionic-Octonionic connection with the tensor product CxQxO. === Subject: Re: Connes & Marcolli paper on renormalization >>second quantized form in terms of creation and annihilation operators, >>including standard nonrelativistic QM. There one does not get any >>divergences. interactions second-quantised > form, i.e. in terms of annihilation and creation operators, and I agree that > this can be done without pathological divergences, since all one is doing is > presenting the same theory in a different way. The problem is that one > being created when an atom goes from an excited to a de-excited state. The > very undesirable infinity in the second order perturbation expansion. > Only because of the very singualr interaction demanded by microlocality. > There are perfectly well-behaved nonrelativistic quantum theories that > 1+1 <-> 1+1+1 > nonrelativistic theories. >>The divergences come only from the fact that standard relativistic QFTs >>have singular interactions. Even in nonrelativistic QM of single >>singular interactions produce divergences and the need for divergent >>counterterms. But there it is well-understood how it works, even on a >>mathematical level. > I would not put it like this. > I deliberately put it like this; I know what I am talking about. > People have gotten so used to lowering their standards of mathematical > rigour in QFT that they forget now that they are doing it at all. > Different people have different degrees of rigor. > Mathematical physicists generally dont compromise at all in their > rigor; they do proper mathematics, but they dont see a problem in > renormalization of nonrelativistic theories. It is just singular > perturbation theory with Hamiltonians that are only defined as > resolvent limits of Hamiltonians of the form T+V. > Your reasoning is like that of someone who rejects modern analysis > because Euler calculated seeming nonsense with divergent series, > and who never took the troubles to look at how mathematicians > handle similar things today with full rigor. > I suggest that you study the volumes by Reed and Simon to get the > functional analysis background needed for coping with singular limits, > and then look at modern mathematical work on renormalization, starting > for example with Glimm and Jaffe, who do the 2-dimensional case with > complete rigor, without using perturbation theory at all. > Arnold Neumaier My original statement was: As far as I know, all the attempts to build a theory by using annihilation/creation operators that work at a particular time and which are time-evolved using a Hamiltonian expressed in terms of these do not work because of loops. I should have qualified this with the words realistic, relativistic. My apologies. === Subject: Re: Connes & Marcolli paper on renormalization > In my opinion, trilinear interactions are the source of all problems > in QED. > Trilinear interaction allows free electron to emit photons. reasons that this process cannot happen. Since the vacuum is unchanged under the time evolution (by construction), this is also impossible. > These effects > have never been observed experimentally, and I believe they do not > exist. Neither are they observed nor are they happening within QED. > I call trilinear operators unphysical. Another problem is > that a product or commutator of two unphysical operators contain > renorm operators, like a^{dag}a. These renorm operators contribute to > due to them. If you like to stay with renormalisable models (like QED), there is no other interaction available than the usual electron-photon vertex (simple power counting). > trilinear unphysical operators from the Hamiltonian. This can be > done by a unitary transformation which does not change the S-matrix. > mechanics. The only difference is that creation and annihilation of > The interaction has only physical terms: interaction is > vacuum do not have self-interactions. Neither do they in usual QED. -- Hendrik van Hees Cyclotron Institute Phone: +1 979/845-1411 Texas A&M University Fax: +1 979/845-1899 Cyclotron Institute, MS-3366 http://theory.gsi.de/~vanhees/ College Station, TX 77843-3366 === Subject: Re: Another EPR question which explains the correlations nicely - Bohmian mechanics. >There is no hand-waving in Bohmian mechanics but >precise equations. >Whatever terms people coin about the nonlocalities >in Bohmian mechanics doesnt change the precise >character of this theory. Any chance of a brief description of the main points of bohmian mechanics and perhaps why some find it unacceptable? -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. functions]. BTOPENWORLD address has ceased. DEMON address has ceased. === Subject: This Weeks Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 208) Also available at http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/week208.html This Weeks Finds in Mathematical Physics Week 208 Last weekend I went to a conference at the Perimeter Institute: 1) Workshop on Quantum Gravity in the Americas, http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/activities/scientific/PI-WORK -2/ It was great to see the new building. Id visited this institute before in its temporary location, which was a funky old hotel building complete with pool tables and a bar. The new building is very different: four stories of intensely modern architecture overlooking a lake, consisting mainly of an enormous atrium lined with walkways and glass-walled offices. Theres also a big lecture theater, a couple of smaller seminar rooms, a library, a restaurant whose walls are all blackboards, a reßecting pool, and lots of little places to sit and talk, complete with espresso machines. In short, a theoretical physicists idea of heaven! But perhaps the design of heaven shouldnt be left to theoretical physicists. Some aspects of the setup dont seem very comfortable. Like most modern architecture, the place is short on coziness - theres too much glass, metal and concrete for my taste. You also find yourself spending a lot of time climbing up and down uncomfortably narrow staircases. The last, at least, is no accident: they made the stairs skinny on purpose, so you have to say hello to anyone you meet going the other way. Itll be interesting to see how many collaborative papers come out of this. Abhay Ashtekar was supposed to give the first talk, but he got lost walking to the new building, so suddenly I had to give the first talk. Yikes! Jet-lagged and not fully awake, I sketched the problem of dynamics in quantum gravity: the problem of describing motion in a world where the geometry of spacetime is quantum-mechanical and interacts with matter. I gave a generally downbeat assessment of the progress so far in all known approaches: 2) John Baez, The problem of dynamics in quantum gravity, http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/dynamics/ Even though the last few Weeks have been on quantum gravity conference, Ive been mainly working on n-categories lately, because Ive been sort of fed up with quantum gravity. I did, however, sketch some avenues for progress - and later in this conference I saw some work that really cheered me up! For example, Ive always been fascinated by John Wheelers old dream of matter without matter. In its original version, the idea was to an electric field going in one end and out the other, the ends will pair. But there were big problems with this idea: for example, More recently this idea was reincarnated in the spin network formalism by Lee Smolin, with spin network edges replacing wormholes: 3) Lee Smolin, Fermions and topology, available as gr-qc/9404010. A spin network is a gadget with vertices and edges, where the edges represent field lines - lines of the electric field or the analogous thing for other forces, including gravity. If a spin network edge goes between vertices that would otherwise be far apart, it acts a bit like a wormhole. It will be hidden from observers in the rest of they dont call them spin networks for nothing! A variant on this idea is to have spin networks with loose ends: edges that just fizzle out. This is more ad hoc, but easier to study in some ways. A decade ago, Kirill Krasnov and I showed how to describe 4) John Baez and Kirill Krasnov, Quantization of diffeomorphism- invariant theories with fermions, hep-th/9703112. However, the hard problem in quantum gravity is always dynamics. Does the dynamics of spin networks with loose ends actually mimic that this question in a toy model, 3-dimensional Lorentzian gravity: 5) Kirill Krasnov, Lambda<0 Quantum Gravity in 2+1 Dimensions I: Quantum States and Stringy S-Matrix, Class. Quant. Grav. 19 (2002) 3977-3998, also available as hep-th/0112164. Kirill Krasnov, Lambda<0 Quantum Gravity in 2+1 Dimensions II: 3999-4028, also available as hep-th/0202117. network ends - though you dont need to emphasize that viewpoint, since there are also other nice ways to think about whats going on, using hyperbolic geometry and complex analysis. It all fits together in a beautiful picture. In principle you can even calculate In this conference, Laurent Freidel explained how this idea works in 3-dimensional Riemannian gravity - a less physical but mathematically more tractable spin foam model. Some but not all of his work can be found here: 6) Laurent Freidel and David Louapre, Ponzano-Regge model revisited I: as hep-th/0401076. Laurent Freidel and David Louapre, Ponzano-Regge model revisited II: Equivalence with Chern-Simons, available as gr-qc/0410141. Freidel showed that if you take this theory and allow spin networks with automatically quantized. More surprisingly, so is their mass - and theres an upper bound on the mass! Thats because when we quantize this theory, its gauge group automatically gets replaced by a quantum group. Physically, this means that spacetime becomes quantum-mechanical in such a way that it no longer makes sense to talk about times shorter to the rate at which its wavefunction oscillates, this puts an upper Mathematically, part of the point is that we can describe 3d Riemannian gravity as a gauge theory where the gauge group is the double cover of the 3d Euclidean group - the analogue of the Poincare group in this context. But when we quantize the theory, this gets replaced by a quantum group: the quantum double of SU(2). As with the 3d Euclidean group, unitary representations of this quantum group are classified by mass and spin... but now both mass and spin are discrete, and both are bounded above. Anyway, whats great about Freidel and Louapres work is that it gives a simplified but mathematically rigorous testbed in which loose ends networks with hidden edges in this setup. So, we should be able to do calculations and see if a spin network with a hidden edge acts like pair. Unfortunately, all this work on gravity in 3d spacetime doesnt easily generalize to 4d spacetime. The reason is that gravitational waves are only possible when spacetime has dimension 4 or more... so 3d gravity all the fun comes from global topology, like wormholes. Thats why 3d theories are easy to calculate with - we can use ideas from topological quantum field theory. The danger, though, is that these calculations are misleading it comes to real-world physics. Indeed, thats precisely the sort of thing I was worrying about in my talk. So, it really cheered me up when a young guy named Artem Starodubtsev spoke about a promising new spin foam model of quantum gravity in 4 dimensions! Hes working on it now with Laurent Freidel. He has a couple of papers out that *hint* at the main ideas, but youll have to wait to see what theyre up to now: 7) Artem Starodubtsev, Topological excitations around the vacuum of quantum gravity I: The symmetries of the vacuum, available as hep-th/0306135. Artem Starodubtsev and Lee Smolin, General relativity with a topological phase: an action principle, available as hep-th/0311163. The basic idea is to treat 4d general relativity with positive cosmological constant as a perturbation of a topological quantum field theory. The topological theory has a single state, which corresponds to a quantum version of deSitter space: an exponentially expanding universe similar to the one we see today, but with no matter. To calculate in full-ßedged gravity, we then use perturbation theory, getting answers as power series in a coupling constant. But the cool part is that unlike ordinary perturbative quantum gravity this perturbation theory is manifestly diffeomorphism invariant term by term. And each term is a sum over spin foams! Even better, the coupling constant in this theory is the cosmological constant in Planck units! Thats an incredibly small dimensionless number: about 10^{-123}. Physicists like perturbation theory when the coupling constant is small, since then the first few terms tend to give reasonably accurate answers - even if the whole series diverges. For example, quantum electrodynamics gives high-precision answers because the fine structure constant is about 1/137, which is pretty small. But 10^{-123} is *really* small. Id seen Starodubtsev talk about this in Marseille (see week206) but now he and Freidel have done calculations recovering Newtons law of gravity in an appropriate approximation from this theory. That may not seem like a big deal, but its actually very cool to see Newtons law reemerge from a manifestly diffeomorphism-invariant theory of quantum gravity: no model had never managed this feat before. For those of you hungering for technical details, Ill just say that the topological theory in question is BF theory with the symmetry group of deSitter spacetime, namely SO(4,1), as the gauge group. General relativity can be regarded as a perturbation of this BF theory by borrowing some ideas from the MacDowell-Mansouri formulation of general relativity. If you havent heard of that, well, neither had I. Its a sort of old idea: 8) S. W. MacDowell and F. Mansouri, Unified geometric theory of gravity and supergravity, Phys. Rev. Lett. 38, 739.9a742 (1977). ... but here we arent using anything anything about supergravity, just the fact that ordinary general relativity can be treated as a theory with gauge group SO(4,1) and a Lagrangian that breaks this symmetry down to the Lorentz group SO(3,1). The paper by Smolin and Starodubtsev listed above describes the details, but in the case of going from SO(5) down to SO(4). When we quantize BF theory in 4 dimensions we get a spin foam model called the Crane-Yetter model, where the spin foams are defined using the representation theory of a quantum group: a q-deformed version of the original gauge group. So, the real engine behind Freidel and Starodubtsevs calculations are spin foams involving the q-deformed version of SO(4,1), called SO_q(4,1). This is technically tricky because SO(4,1) is noncompact, and noncompact quantum groups are just beginning to be understood. So, theres probably still tons of mathematical work left to be done. But, the upshot is that Freidel and Starodubtsev calculate stuff as power series in the cosmological constant where each term is computed using SO_q(4,1) spin foams. Its sort of like a souped-up Feynman diagram expansion, but with spin foams replacing Feynman diagrams. Now that Ive thrown around enough buzzwords to scare off the kids, I can tell you about Lee Smolins talk, which was definitely for adults only, people who can listen to speculations with just the right mixture of disbelief and open-mindedness. It was the last talk in the conference. And it was about the possible physical effects of spin networks with hidden edges! ahead and suggested that hidden edges can cause nonlocal effects in physics, like the force of gravity decaying more slowly than 1/r^2 - just as it does in MOND, the wacky but strangely accurate explanation of galactic rotation curves that uses a modification of Newtonian gravity instead of positing dark matter! (See week206 for more on MOND.) Its hard to make up sensible theories of forces that decay more slowly than 1/r^2, but nonlocal interactions would be one way to do it... and hidden spin network edges might cause those. There are a million things that could go wrong with this idea, but I like it, because it suggests a way quantum gravity might try to explain one of the big mysteries of physics - dark matter. And until we get our theories to make contact with experiment, itll be very hard for us to tell if theyre on the right track. Anyway, Smolin hasnt come out with a paper on this stuff yet, so well have to wait for more details. By the way: In what Ive written this week, Ive had to seriously downplay the cool math involved, to give (I hope) some inkling of the cool physics. Krasnov work on 2+1-dimensional Lorentzian gravity with positive cosmological constant uses the fact that the phase space of this theory is closely related to Teichmueller space - the space of complex structures mod diffeomorphisms that are connected to the identity. I talked about this space in week28, but I forgot to say that we can think of it as a space of ßat SO(2,1) connections mod gauge transformations. Here SO(2,1) is just the Lorentz group in 3 dimensions. So, if we quantize 2+1 Lorentzian gravity with positive cosmological constant, we get a theory where states are described by SO_q(2,1) spin networks... but this is also a theory of quantum Teichmueller space. Again this is tricky because SO(2,1) is noncompact, of work started by Kashaev: 9) R. M. Kashaev, Quantization of Teichmueller spaces and the quantum dilogarithm, available as q-alg/9705021. 10) L. Chekhov and V. V. Fock, Quantum Teichmueller space, Theor. Math. Phys. 120 (1999) 1245-1259, also available as math.QA/9908165. You can get a sense of whos working on this stuff and what theyre doing by looking at the references for this recent conference on 3d quantum gravity in Edinburgh, which unfortunately took place when I was in Hong Kong: 11) Workshop on physics and geometry of 3-dimensional quantum gravity, http://www.ma.hw.ac.uk/~bernd/references.html I should also add that people dont usually dont talk about the 3d Lorentz group SO(2,1) here; they talk about its double cover SL(2,R). Anyway, Ill quit here. The next conference on loops and spin foams will probably happen in Berlin at the Albert Einstein Institute in 2005, which happens to be the hundredth birthday of special relativity. I hope we can make a lot of progress before then and make Al proud. ------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- mathematics and physics, as well as some of my research papers, can be obtained at http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/ For a table of contents of all the issues of This Weeks Finds, try http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/twf.html A simple jumping-off point to the old issues is available at http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/twfshort.html If you just want the latest issue, go to http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/this.week.html === Subject: Re: Casimir Effect inside a Faraday Cage > Firstly, Casimir carried out his calculations to try > to explain measurements on colloids. The Casimir > interaction *is* the van der Waals interaction, > usually at separations greater than the wavelength > of photons of energy comparable to the binding > energy of electrons in the materials you are > investigating. Since this is typically in the > range 10-100 eV, the transition from the r^-6 > point-to-point behavior of the London analysis to > the r^-7 behavior of the Casimir analysis occurs > between 10-100 nm. > > HMMMMMM! > And here all these years went by with me thinking (as I > once read somewhere) that van der Waals forces were > caused by the electrons of one atom temporarily > seeing the protons of another atom. Take two argon > atoms, for example. Each has 18 protons with 18 > electrons orbitally clouding around it. If by sheer > randomness something like this happens: > (8e) (18p) (10e) (8e) (18p) (10e) > Well, the nucleus of the argon at the right can be > seen by 2 of those 10 electrons of the argon at > the left. So the atoms attract. Well, that description is not wrong. One thing you have to get used to in physics is that a given phenomenon can often be described in a number of ways, apparently quite different from one another. What you are describing there springs from the theoretical treatment of the vdW interaction by Fritz London [Trans. Faraday Soc. 33, 8-26 (1937)]. Londons treatment of the interaction was the first one which fitted the experimental facts known at the time, and it described the electrons using the Schr.9adinger equation. The electrons were assumed to interact with the nuclei and with one another via a 1/r potential which acted instantaneously. For teaching purposes it is necessary to describe the origin of the energy in words. This is said to be the interaction between ßuctuations of the electrons. However remember, the wave function of the electrons does not ßuctuate and the atoms as a whole have zero expectation value of their external electric field. That was all fine and dandy for a while, and explained lots of things. On its foundations was built the DLVO theory of the stability of colloids (D=Derjaguin, L=Landau, V=Verwey and O=Overbeek). However, after a while slight discrepancies with the theory were noted, and this was where Casimir and his student Polder came in. They provided a correct quantum description of both the electrons and photons [H B G Casimir, D Polder Phys. Rev. 73 (1948) 360], and resolved the discrepancies of the DLVO theory. Almost as an afterthought, Casimir noted that if you had parallel metal plates separated by large distances, the interaction was independent of which particular metal you used [H B G Casimir Proc. Kon. Ned. Akad. Wetensch. B 51 (1948) 793] and could be considered to originate from the energy of zero-point ßuctuations of the electromagnetic field. This of course was a green light for the mystics, who often conveniently forget that to get any force at all you do have to have some matter there (the metal plates), and that when you bring the plates together to get a larger force, it does start to matter which metal you use. Just in case you think the Casimir treatment disproves the Ôelectron-ßuctuation description, Lifz showed that Londons treatment could be fixed up by putting in a retardation term in the formula. The improved Lifz electron-ßuctuation treatment gives exactly the same answer as the Casimir zero-point-photon-ßuctuation picture. There is a third picture of the vdW interaction, which as far as I know was first put forward by Hirschfelder and Eliason [J. Chem. Phys. 47 (1967) 1164-1169]. When the atoms approach one another, the orbitals of the electrons change slightly, and this changes the distribution of negative charge around each nucleus, distorting the cloud slightly in the direction of the other nucleus. The nucleus therefore feels a force with a value exactly equal to the result given by the Lifz-London analysis, which is exactly equal to the value given by the Casimir-Polder analysis. There is however a subtle difference. The third picture says that the energy of the interaction comes from the attraction between opposite charges. This is a lot less mysterious, and the people attracted to physics by the Copenhagen interpretation dont like it. > Now of course I realize that such arrangements are > ßeeting and will no doubt be balanced by other > arrangements that are electrically repulsive. I > have in fact wondered about that, whether or not > the overall average tends toward zero attraction. > (Not to mention that Helium manages near-zero > attraction with only 2 electrons shrouding the > nucleus, even at Absolute Zero.) Yet van der > Waals forces do exist, and so I accepted the > explanation that I had read about. > Regarding the nonconductor/mirrors, that was > just something I thought Uncle Al might be > describing at a page he had linked to. I > could be mistaken about that, of course. Zigoteau. === Subject: Re: Casimir Effect inside a Faraday Cage > I suggest that a good step for you would be to read > the original Casimir (and Polder) papers. Their > content might surprise you. > Firstly, Casimir carried out his calculations to try > to explain measurements on colloids. The Casimir > interaction *is* the van der Waals interaction, > usually at separations greater than the wavelength > of photons of energy comparable to the binding > energy of electrons in the materials you are > investigating. Since this is typically in the > range 10-100 eV, the transition from the r^-6 > point-to-point behavior of the London analysis to > the r^-7 behavior of the Casimir analysis occurs > between 10-100 nm. > HMMMMMM! > And here all these years went by with me thinking (as I > once read somewhere) that van der Waals forces were > caused by the electrons of one atom temporarily > seeing the protons of another atom. Take two argon > atoms, for example. Each has 18 protons with 18 > electrons orbitally clouding around it. If by sheer > randomness something like this happens: > (8e) (18p) (10e) (8e) (18p) (10e) > Well, the nucleus of the argon at the right can be > seen by 2 of those 10 electrons of the argon at > the left. So the atoms attract. > Now of course I realize that such arrangements are > ßeeting and will no doubt be balanced by other > arrangements that are electrically repulsive. I > have in fact wondered about that, whether or not > the overall average tends toward zero attraction. > (Not to mention that Helium manages near-zero > attraction with only 2 electrons shrouding the > nucleus, even at Absolute Zero.) Yet van der > Waals forces do exist, and so I accepted the > explanation that I had read about. > Regarding the nonconductor/mirrors, that was > just something I thought Uncle Al might be > describing at a page he had linked to. I > could be mistaken about that, of course. http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/casimir3.htm A chemist diddling with applied physics Newer stuff: http://arXiv.org/abs/hep-th/0104127 For a hollow spherical shell of radius R, Casimir force Phys. Rev. E 63 1101-1112 (2001) Refutation of repulsive Casimir force Measured to within 5% of theory, Phys. Rev. Lett. 78 5 (1996) Phys. Rev. Lett. 81 4549 (1998) Measured to within 1% of theory, Phys. Rev. A 59(5) R3149 (1999) Imperfect mirrors, Phys. Rev. Lett. 81 3815 (1998) Temperature above 0 K, Phys. Rev. A 57 1870 (1998) Curved mirrors, Amer. J. Physics 65 381 (1997)) Spherical dielectrics, J. Phys. A: Math. Gen. 32 535 (1999) H.B.G. Casimir, Proc. Kon. Ned. Akad. Wetensch. B51 793 (1948) Contemporary Physics 33(5) 313 (1992) Sov. Phys.-Dokl. 12(11) 1040 (1968) Proc. Royal Soc. A 312 435 (1969) Ann. Phys. (NY) 56 474 (1970) Phys. Rev. E 48(2) 1562 (1993) Edward G. Harris, A Pedestrian Approach to Quantum Field Theory. Wiley-Interscience, NY 1972, pp. 108-9 -- Uncle Al http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/ (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals) http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf === Subject: Photons-atoms interactions I want to know about Photons-atoms interactions as under:- 1. Whether emitted photons from any atom will be exactly similar & with same energy as of absorbed photons? 2. Can atoms remain excited for long? I mean if atoms absorb any photon, can it remain excited for long with out emitting photon? 3. If any substance, say stone piece, is divided into two pieces & those two pieces are kept as some distance seprately. In consideration of Ôenergy is to be corresponded for photon-atom interactions, If one piece of stone is excited or vibrated--will it effect 2nd piece of that stone kept at some distance? Best wishes. === Subject: Re: Two EPR questions This black box allows to do very strange things. Unfortunately it >does not allow us to build an FTL phone. But there exists no realistic >explanation of what is inside the black box which does not use some >sort of hidden FTL information transfer. Quite. The crux of the problem. One viable solution is to claim that FTL is perfectly possible BUT ONLY inside the black box. One should then examine the box. What is strange about it? Well, its easier to reverse the question and ask Ôwhat is strange about a measurement? Well, a measurement is something everyone agrees on. In relativity it is an event. Everyone, everywhere, agrees about an event. Now thats an extraordinary statement when you think about it. Why *should* everyone agree about something? Furthermore there is an implied connection between the whole universe (who all agree about the event) and the event. QM, however, says we can never be quite sure. Different observers will in fact measure different results for an event, mediated by h. To me this strongly suggests that an event is probabilistic. That is an event is simply something with a very high probability of occurring (and Im talking about near certainty here). So classical physics is simply the physics of (very) probable events. That is the implication of setting h=0. So the implication is that the probability of achieving FTL communication is related to h. That is (macroscopically) you can have a FTL phone, but unfortunately you cant expect it to deliver the correct words more than (say) 1:10^100 times you use it, with the chance of correctness related to h. That is if you listen to noise long enough, you will eventually hear words, very rarely these will actually be a FTL communication. Thats because the number of observers is the whole observable universe. However, consider a very small isolated system. Now to think inside the box..... rest of the universe. It is not an event, it can be as improbable as it likes. The rest of the universe do NOT (and cannot) agree on A and notA. We send one to jill and one to james, who measure them. The measurements are an event. The results must now be highly probable. There are only two solutions, either jill gets A or notA (and vv for james). Anything else is by definition improbable, that is it does not conform to classical behaviour (which we know to be true to very high accuracy). Now one could say that at this point there are two spherical superposed shells of Ôresults that expand at lightspeed. This is, however, implausible to me. That is its not a likely solution, or way of looking at it. Far too many observers, far too complicated. The alternative is that A and notA are in fact in *effective* FTL communication until the measurement. The question is thus how to rationalise this. One way is to examine what we mean by Ôdistance, the other is what we mean by Ôtime. Now, both of these are normally defined macroscopically, that is by chains of events. That is they are classical statements. The box is NOT a classical statement. There is no a priori reason why these should be the same for our definition no chain of events to internally define its internal distance or time. In a very real sense they are undefined and undefinable. Without any such definition it makes no sense to state anything about FTL communication. Excluding gravity they are a mini-universe containing A and notA. When Ôthe rest of the universe comes in and takes one, say A definitively as it must, then the rest of the universe defines the other as notA. Its probably convenient to imagine this happens simultaneously (although time is probably undefined internally) within the Ômini-universe. Anything else is (within the greater universe) utterly improbable. I hope this makes a little sense. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. functions]. BTOPENWORLD address has ceased. DEMON address has ceased. === Subject: Re: electron mass in an electrical circuit > This thread is very likely to be badly misinformed but anyway here > goes... > In an electrical circuit electrons travel at a significant > proportion to the speed of light, in a super cooled circuit > significantly faster ... so why doesnt the mass of the wire start to > reach infinity. I know that this is probably a stupid question but > tolerate me! Changes in the electrical current do propagate at speeds near that of light, and the associated electric and magnetic fields do also. However, the electrons do not. What happens is that an electron near the source of the change in the current nudges another electron nearby, which nudges another a little further along, which nudges .... The changes in speed are driven by electromagnetic fields which can in fact travel near light speed, so the point at which the current increases can move quite quickly. The individual electrons, however, move at a velocity which is much smaller, and their relativistic mass increase is very small. You can see the same effect at an intersection where the light turns from red to green. The point at which the cars start moving travels back from the light at a speed unrelated to the speed of the cars. Indeed, the speed-change point has a velocity opposite that of the cars. -- Maurice Barnhill Department of Physics and Astronomy University of Delaware Newark, DE 19716 === Subject: Re: electron mass in an electrical circuit posting-account=B25dZA0AAAAxs4iqKuIMXwEP9O0c2cJ5 > This thread is very likely to be badly misinformed but anyway here > goes... > In an electrical circuit electrons travel at a significant > proportion to the speed of light, in a super cooled circuit > significantly faster ... so why doesnt the mass of the wire start to > reach infinity. I know that this is probably a stupid question but > tolerate me! Individual electrons dont move very quickly down a wire. They move something like a couple of millimeters per second I think. However the EM field disturbance travels down the wire at a much higher speed, approaching the speed of light. Thus there is no need to accelerate any electrons to near the speed of light. Think of Newtons cradle - you know, the toy with a couple of metal balls hanging in wires and you drop one on the edge, the one on the other edge will ßy out - even if the balls in the middle dont really move (actually this is not just an analogy, mechanics is really EM between molecules). /BW === Subject: Re: electron mass in an electrical circuit > This thread is very likely to be badly misinformed but anyway here > goes... > In an electrical circuit electrons travel at a significant > proportion to the speed of light, NO!!!!! The *signal* travels at about lightspeed divided by the square root of the surrounding dielectric constant. The electrons physically travel a few microns/second. Dont take my word for it! Run an ampere through a 1 mm diameter copper wire. Assume one valence electron/atom in the conducton band. How fast are the electrons physically traveling (assuming no scatter)? Sound travels at 1/5 mile/sec in air or about 720 mph. How fast does the air travel? > in a super cooled circuit > significantly faster ... NO!!!!! First, the electrons in Cooper pairs have conjugate momenta. Only translation of their center of mass matters. Second, were back to the wire argument above. Wound supercon magnets have a whole lot of amps/cm^2 as current. The net speed of charge propagation is unremarkable. > so why doesnt the mass of the wire start to > reach infinity. I know that this is probably a stupid question but > tolerate me! First calculate the numbers, then speculate. An electron traveling at 99.995% of lighspeed would manifest 100X its rest mass. That is a whopping 1/18 of a protons rest mass. 96,485.3 coulombs is only one mole of electrons. Even it it happened your way it wouldnt make much mass diffference - and Bremsstrahlung would be a right proper pisser. -- Uncle Al http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/ (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals) http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf === Subject: All papers tonight - a fast analysis This is an experiment. Commented idiosyncratic abstracts of all hep-th papers that appeared tonight is at _____________________________________________________________ _______________ __ E-mail: lumo@matfyz.cz fax: +1-617/496-0110 Web: http://lumo.matfyz.cz/ eFax: +1-801/454-1858 work: +1-617/384-9488 home: +1-617/868-4487 (call) Webs: http://schwinger.harvard.edu/~motl/ http://motls.blogspot.com/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ === Subject: Paper of the day candidate: Gias predictive anthropic solution of the hierarchy problem This posting is about the new paper by Gia Dvali: http://www.arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0410286 There are also other interesting papers on the web, but this one, I think, will attract the attention of many people. Gia Dvali joined Nima Arkani-Hamed and Savas Dimopoulos, friends (applied string theorists) who are his co-fathers of the large extra dimensions, and proposed his own version of an anthropically inspired solution of the hierarchy problem. Recall that Nima and Savas have proposed Split supersymmetry http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0405159 that argues that its OK if the Higgs is unnatural and tuned, but with this single sacrifice, one may argue that SUSY should be broken at a high scale and gluinos (dark matter) should be the only light superpartners, which also preserves the success of gauge coupling unification. Gia Dvalis approach has similar goals and methods, but different details. Gias scenario is based on these rather simple ideas: 1. The Higgs mass is effectively a dynamical quantity, which arises from an interaction with a 4-form field strength F4 (the term is Higgs^2.F4^2) induced by some heavy domain walls (2-branes) 2. This mass is dynamical, but discrete. To solve the hierarchy problem, one needs to find a reason why the small masses are preferred. Gia follows Michael Douglass anthropic counting where the number of vacua measures how natural something is - but in a one-parameter family of vacua only, which may be more meaningful. Gias explanation why the small mass is preferred is a kind of beauty is attractive argument. It seems that he just postulates that the density of vacua diverges around the desired point because of a power law - without showing why the exponent has the correct sign etc. (This does not look quite satisfactory to me. You can always say that something XY is small because there is some underlying approximate symmetry that changes XY by a factor, which effectively makes log(parameter) a more natural quantity, and parameter is then expected to be much smaller. Is it an explanation? To be more quantitative, I dont know how he gets 10^{-16} as opposed to 10^{-infinity}, for example.) He says that the required symmetry to make the small mass an attractor is a brane conjugation symmetry; he argues that a second Higgs doublet is needed; and he surprisingly relates the Higgs physics with the QCD scale; also, he claims that the quarks Yukawa couplings are then severely constrained. All these statements may be very interesting. I have not had time to study all these points in detail yet, but I hope that someone will write her or his understanding. _____________________________________________________________ _______________ __ E-mail: lumo@matfyz.cz fax: +1-617/496-0110 Web: http://lumo.matfyz.cz/ eFax: +1-801/454-1858 work: +1-617/384-9488 home: +1-617/868-4487 (call) Webs: http://schwinger.harvard.edu/~motl/ http://motls.blogspot.com/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ === Subject: BPS membranes with three boundaries Lubos asked (http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/string/archives/000461.html# c001690) about literature on BPS membranes in the pair of pants shape. Probably litarature on supersymmetric 3-string junctions in string networks will have something about this, since these junctions come from membranes with 3 boundaries. A quick search turned up Yukata Matsuo & Kazumi Okuyama: BPS condition of String Junction from M Theory, hep-th/9712070 (around equation (3)) and Curtis Callan & Larus Thorlacius: Worldsheet Dynamics of String Junctions, hep-th/9803097. If anyone knows more and better references, please let us know! === Subject: Re: BPS membranes with three boundaries > Yukata Matsuo & Kazumi Okuyama: BPS condition of String Junction from M > Theory, > hep-th/9712070 not seem relevant for the fivebrane worldvolume theory, as far as I see. String junctions of (p,q) strings exist in type IIB; if you want to describe them in M-theory, it must be M-theory on a T^2 torus, at least. I thought that the pants diagrams relevant for fivebranes should already exist in the infinite space, and the circles arising as the boundaries of the pants membrane within the fivebranes should be closed, but topologically trivial. Incidentally, it seems likely that some extra physics inside the fivebrane would have to protect the circle from shrinking. > Curtis Callan & Larus Thorlacius: Worldsheet Dynamics of String Junctions, > hep-th/9803097. Right, this is also junctions. Its hard to see how these things can create BPS states for fivebranes. Maybe the whole idea that there are BPS pants membranes stretched between the fivebranes in the ßat space was just a miscommunication or my misunderstanding of something? _____________________________________________________________ _______________ __ E-mail: lumo@matfyz.cz fax: +1-617/496-0110 Web: http://lumo.matfyz.cz/ eFax: +1-801/454-1858 work: +1-617/384-9488 home: +1-617/868-4487 (call) Webs: http://schwinger.harvard.edu/~motl/ http://motls.blogspot.com/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ === Subject: Re: BPS membranes with three boundaries > Right, this is also junctions. Its hard to see how these things can > create BPS states for fivebranes. I see. I had the vague idea they might be generalizable. > Maybe the whole idea that there are BPS > pants membranes stretched between the fivebranes in the ßat space was > just a miscommunication or my misunderstanding of something? Hm. It could make one suspicious that the first hit when googling for M2 BPS pants is... your blog entry where you ask for references about them. ;-) So whats the conclusion? Should these 3-boundary membranes that you and Andy Neitzke talked about exist but have just not been studied, or dont they exist after all? === Subject: infinitely thin strings What difference would it make to string theory if the strings had a small width? Am I right in thinking that they are treated mathematically as being infinitely thin? === Subject: Re: infinitely thin strings > What difference would it make to string theory if the strings had a > small width? Am I right in thinking that they are treated > mathematically as being infinitely thin? Actually it seems as a good question, at least to me. Yes, the strings in perturbative string theory are treated as infinitely thin objects, and the configuration is literally described by an embedding of this thin string into spacetime - i.e. by functions X^i(sigma) that only depend on one coordinate. The image of this map in spacetime is an infinitesimally thin string. When you turn on the interactions, the strings start to split and join, and in some sense it must mean that the conformal field theory based on X^i(sigma) is just an approximation, something that becomes invalid if the string coupling is nonzero. If you imagine that the strings are literally 3-dimensional tubes, for example, you will not be able to derive a meaningful theory - Heisenberg and Dirac tried this, and it did not work. The only loophole of their no-go theorems seem to be the relativistic string, which is 1-dimensional. Nevertheless, the strings become different if the coupling is finite. In some cases, we know what the strings become. In type IIA or E8 x E8 heterotic string theory, the strings become two-dimensional membranes in M-theory, wrapped on a circle (or stretched between the two domain walls - the boundaries of spacetime). The membranes are still infinitely thin, in a sense, but they are two-dimensional - they are extended in 2 dimensions instead of one, unlike the strings. Well, the description purely in terms of infinitely thin membranes does not really work too well, and one must discretize it to get Matrix theory, and so forth. This makes the local geometry fuzzy, in a sense. It must be morally true that the concept of the infinitesimal string is just an approximation valid in perturbative string theory where g is infinitesimally small: not only spacetime geometry, but also the existence of a string is a derived approximate notion. Well, we know that the previous sentence is definitely true - the whole perturbative string theory is just an approximation. But by saying the sentence in this way, I also implicitly propose that we should try to look for the framework that generalizes the description of string theory at a finite value of the coupling, in which the strings become M, something more general than a string, a fattened fuzzy modified generalized string whose dimension can oscillate, but whose theory is algebraically analogous to the two-dimensional CFTs that describe the infinitesimally thin strings. Look at the formula for the S-matrix amplitudes calculated from a CFT, and imagine that you replace the detailed components by something else. The path integral will not be over 2-dimensional CFTs, but some general fields - imagine the configuration space of large matrices. There will be a new action, and there will be vertex operators that wont be 2-dimensional integrals anymore, but rather traces or something more general, and int d^2sigma exp(i.k.X(z)) can become Tr exp(i.k.X) where X is a matrix. Do you know how to generalize the argument that could show that the S-matrix calculated along these lines will be unitary? The conformal symmetry may be generalized to something else that can remove the unphysical polarizations - i.e. the N-scaling symmetry. Do we know how to construct the analogue of the stress energy tensor for the symmetry under scaling of N? Is there some replacement for the central charge, and some counting of the critical dimension? All the best Lubos _____________________________________________________________ _______________ __ E-mail: lumo@matfyz.cz fax: +1-617/496-0110 Web: http://lumo.matfyz.cz/ eFax: +1-801/454-1858 work: +1-617/384-9488 home: +1-617/868-4487 (call) Webs: http://schwinger.harvard.edu/~motl/ http://motls.blogspot.com/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ === Subject: Re: infinitely thin strings Lubos says: If you imagine that the strings are literally 3-dimensional tubes, for example, you will not be able to derive a meaningful theory - Heisenberg and Dirac tried this You mean to say that Heisenberg and Dirac actually took a 4-dimensional manifold and made a theory of 4 quantum scalar fields on this 4 dimensional manifold and made the fields satisfy all the lorenz symmetries on the target space of the fields and found this to be inconsistent? === Subject: Re: infinitely thin strings > Lubos says: > If you imagine that the strings are literally 3-dimensional tubes, for > example, you will not be able to derive a meaningful theory - Heisenberg > and Dirac tried this > You mean to say that Heisenberg and Dirac > actually took a 4-dimensional manifold and > made a theory of 4 quantum scalar fields on > this 4 dimensional manifold and made the fields > satisfy all the lorenz symmetries on the target > space of the fields and found this to be > inconsistent? A apologize for my inability to resist the temptation to interfere with a comment. The extreme non-linearity of any general coordinate invariant action principle is a serious obstacle for constructing theories of higher-dimensional objects: in string theories conformal invariance allows to overcome the difficulties. 1978) I can tell that both canonical quantization and functional integral approach failed completely for 4-D objects in H=M^4xCP_2 for the physically realistic choice of action (generalization of Maxwell action but with Maxwell field defined by the induced Kahler form). The reason was that gauge degeneracy corresponds geometrically to a gigantic vacuum degeneracy: any 4-surface with CP_2 projection Y^2 which is Lagrange manifold defines a vacuum extremal. For instance, for small perturbations around the canonical imbedding of M^4 to H the first terms in the perturbative expansion are fourth order. Since the kinetic term is absent, the failure of the functional integral approach could not be more dramatic. The same applies to the canonical quantization: the time derivatives of the imbedding space coordinates cannot be solved in terms of canonical momentum densities as single valued functions. This forced to replace the functional integral approach with geometrization of the configuration space of 3-surfaces. The dream is that the infinite-dimensional (necessarily) Kahler geometry is unique by the existence of Riemann connection as found in the case of of loop spaces by Dan Freed. Configuration space would be a union of infinite-dimensional symmetric spaces labelled by zero modes of the metric. Symmetric space property is also required by calculability (all points of symmetric space are metrically equivalent) and zero mode degeneracy by the fact that a 3-surface with a size electron cannot be metrically equivalent with a 3-surface with a size of galaxy. The loss of conformal invariance and Kac-Moody algebra in dimension 3 would certainly be good sounding modern arguments for giving up the idea of 3-dimensional fundamental objects. These arguments are however on a shaky ground. a) Let us accept quantum holography and general coordinate invariance in the sense that any 3-dimensional section X^3 of 4-D space-time surface X^4 can serve as a causal determinant. What this means that once you know 3-surface X^3 you know X^4 by classical field equations: X^4(X^3) is an analog of Bohr orbit. This argument involves an over-simplicifaction but this is not essential for what follows. b) Suppose that you can select this 3-surface X^3 to be a light like sub-manifold analogous to a light front created by a light source of arbitrary shape in the curved space-time (curvature implies that the front need not look expanding when viewed from imbedding space). This allows a unique gauge fixing allowing to circumvent technical problems produced by the 4-D general coordinate invariance acting as a gauge symmetry. c) By its lighlikeness X^3 is metrically 2-dimensional and allows generalized conformal symmetries. X^3 possesses also degenerate Kaehler and symplectic structures. One of the most fascinating geometric properties is that the group of isometries is infinite-dimensional and in 1-1 correspondence with conformal symmetries. Indeed, taking lightcone boundary as a simple example and writing it as V= S^2xR_+, one realizes that the Weyl scaling induced by the conformal transformation of S^2 can be compensated by an S^2-local scaling of the light-like radial coordinate so that an isometry results. These properties makes space-time dimension D=4 completely unique. It requires a lot of work to work out the physical interpretation and details (it took 25 years for me). The outcome is however a theory which in some aspects resembles membrane theory. a) There are actually 2 kinds of causal determinants. The 7-dimensional lightlike surfaces X^7= V^3xCP_2 of imbedding space, V^3 future or past light cone boundary, act as causal determinants at imbedding space-level playing a role analogous to that of big bang. They are forced by the loss of complete determinism due to the above-mentioned vacuum degeneracy of geometrized Maxwell action. They are somewhat analogous to 6-branes in M-theory in the sense that pairs of space-time sheets with opposite time orientations are created on them from vacuum and carrying opposite inertial energies. There are 2 conformal invariances corresponding to imbedding space conformal invariance associated with V^3 and space-time conformal invariance associated with surfaces X^3. Hence there is much more conformla structure than in string theory. b) As far as state construction is considered, the intersections of X^3 and V^7 defining 2-D parton surfaces X^2 are in a key role (as one might guess from the fact that lightlike dimension of X^3 is not dynamical). These intersections are somewhat analogous to the junctures of strings and branes. One can speak of effective 2-dimensionality so that there is definite resemblance with M(embrane) theories. I have explained these aspects in earlier discussion thread Alternative to strings and Kaluza-Klein theories. Material related to the theory can be found at http://www.physics.helsinki.fi/~matpitka/tgd.html and http://www.physics.helsinki.fi/~matpitka/padtgd.html . Matti Pitkanen === Subject: Solar Direction? I wanted to know if there are any algorithms which would allow one to find the direction of a given place on the earth relative to ones own position, using the Sun (and moon) as a reference. e.g. I know that I am in London and that Paris is X degrees from the Sun at a given time of day. There would no doubt, be two separate algorithms. Abviously, if the sun has set, values would not be possible. Same goes for the moon. Anyone who can offer any help? === Subject: How fast is Earth moving? How fast is Earth moving relative to the sun? Does the speed change regularly? If so, in what way? --Johnny http://barelybad.com === Subject: Re: How fast is Earth moving? >How fast is Earth moving relative to the sun? >Does the speed change regularly? If so, in what way? If the Earths orbit were circular, the speed would be constant (in physics its called uniform circular motion), which you could calculate using nominal values for the orbital radius (called an astronomical unit), pi, and the numbers of hours in a solar year. This still provides a reasonable approximation for many applications. But we know the orbit is elliptical with the Sun at one focus. By one of Keplers laws, we know that the speed is fastest at perihelion and slowest at aphelion. By the principle of continuity, we know the speed varies continuously from one to the other and then back again over the course of a year. One of the ways this variation manifests itself is the analemma (equation of time) since the Sun does not return to high noon in the sky in the same amount of time each day (24 hours is just nominal). <> === Subject: Re: How fast is Earth moving? posting-account=YlfmdwwAAACC77JOQxzd52GbZnwIMh2h > But we know the orbit is elliptical with the Sun at one focus. Close enough for the purposes at hand, but its worth pointing out to the original poster that, more properly, its not the Sun which resides at the focus of the ellipse. At the focus, in fact, is the mass center of the Earth/Sun system, also called the barycenter. Of course, Earth contributes such a negligible portion of the total mass that the barycenter is practically at the Suns own mass center. -Mark Martin id 1CNeTD-000PuJ-RT === Subject: Re: Astro/Space Frequently Seen Acronyms >PS: Strictly speaking, most of these are initialisms or abbreviations >rather than acronyms; pedantically, its only an acronym if you make a >word out of it, like laser or radar. In practice, though, everybody >calls Ôem acronyms. Lets not quibble. You omitted - `Astros or `Stros -the Houston Texas National League Baseball Team. Questionable: Astrodome - Harris County Sports Stadium. NASA 1 : street on which JSC is located. (envelope-from news@newsb.telia.net) === Subject: Re: A question about heat, rephrased. Rearranged reply to correct some top posting: >> I already posted a question about heat asking how heat travels through >> a vacuum, but everybody assumed I was talking about starlight and I >> therefore got a bunch of responses relating to photons and >> electromagnetic waves. So allow me to rephrase... >> If an astronaut removes his helmet in space, what happens to his body >> heat considering heat does not travel through a vacuum? > the astronaut in question is ßash frozen, his blood freeze dried > instantly, assuming the astronaut in question didnt explode immediately > from the air pressure difference. This is not a really fun experiment. > Dont try this at home, kids. No, he is not ßash frozen. If we disregard any effects due to the air pressure difference his temperature might degrade because he is radiating heat into deep space (assuming the head is in shadow, if it is in sunlight in earth orbit it will be heated and get a very quick tan!) > The reason heat does not travel easily through a vaccuum is because heat > is kinetic energy, which operates at a much higher collective density > per cubic environment variable than in outer space. Consider the fact > that in outer space, the closest atoms are together is about a meter > apart, no accounting for dust and debris say in a ring like around > Saturn or an asteroid belt, whereas on Earth the atoms are much closer > together, say anywhere from a nanometer on up(thats 1/1,000,000 of one > meter). You can feel heat on earth because there are more atoms to > transmit heat than there are in space. Got it? Good. Since kinetic > energy is an active force, the less there is around it to support the > force exerted, the less force can be exerted and the more force must be > exerted to maintain equilibrium. It is a recursively dynamic equation > bearing on that which can be used efficiently for kinetic support > grounded to the base state of consumption rate needed to maintain the > ground state. Here you are are making a big mistake, heat is not just kinetic energy, it is also photon energy, just use the Planck Law and youll find out how much heat exchange there is with the environment (3 K if radiating into deep space) -- th id 1CO6RJ-000JVG-KX (envelope-from nntp-bounce@supernews.net) === Subject: Re: Terraforming Venus > Lots of problems left, including the 117 day long days. > This is probably the biggest problem. AFAIK we do not have plant or > animal life that can live with days that long, and the human psyche > is not up to it, either. I wonder why you feel that way. I live in Fairbanks, Alaska, and routinely travel north to places like Barrow. People live just fine with no dark for 3 months or so in the summer, and no light for that long in the winter. Im one of Ôem! id 1CQFoj-0003Ei-00 === Subject: Cassini Images Blurry or Titan a Tough Subject? I went through the Cassini images from Saturn and Titan and I was expecting to find a great variety of Voyager or Pioneer color tour-de-forces but instead there are a great deal of blurry black and whites. Is this because the bulk of the images are for science gathering at different filter levels, not necessarily for sight seeing? And is it that Titan is just a difficult target? Im not being critical, Im just curious. === Subject: Question about smell If you puke in a space capsule can you smell it ßoating around? What about in a vacuum. Does smell travel in a vacuum? I assume you need air for smell. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). === Subject: Re: please review: fully classical derivation of Plancks law > Folks, > Ive just completed a mission expressly taken up in 1977, when asked > by the NSTS interview board (India) if I could be as good in QM as > (apparently, at that time) in GR. Unfortunately, yours truly was > young, impressionable, and intrigued, and it messed up his life ever > since! You took a wise decision to throw yourself in front of a newsgroups. One needs to prove oneself wrong as fast as possible, so that you can move on and learn more. You are right that Planks law seems to imply that each half sine of an EM wave appears to have the same average energy, independent of frequency. But I dont think you can derive this from classical physics. You attempt to do this by integrating the square of the wave with respect to the phase (phi) instead of space. But you should be integrating with respect to space, which is related in one dimension (x) to phi by phi ~ x/f You can switch to integrating with respect to phi, but you then need to divide the integral by f. This unfortunately ruins the whole argument. Classical physics predicts that each frequency will get the same average energy (equipartition). It is true that this is not so well treated in physics textbooks. Good luck, Gerard === Subject: Re: electron mass in an electrical circuit > This thread is very likely to be badly misinformed but anyway here > goes... > > In an electrical circuit electrons travel at a significant > proportion to the speed of light, in a super cooled circuit > significantly faster ... so why doesnt the mass of the wire start to > reach infinity. I know that this is probably a stupid question but > tolerate me! > When you say an electrical circuit Im not entirely clear whether you > mean electrons travelling through a semiconductor or through a metal > wire. Certainly for semiconductors it is simply not true that > electrons (or holes) travel anywhere near the speed of light. The > drift velocity of carriers in semiconductors is proportional to > electric field and the mobility is defined as the drift velocity > divided by the electric field. For typical semiconductors, mobilities > are around 4000 cm^2/(Vs) which by my calculations means that typical > drift velocities are only around 0.4 m/s. Of course, instantaneous > carrier speeds can be much higher, but there are many scattering > events which occur which result in a low drift velocity. Of course, > the drift velocity also depends on the type of semiconductor, and > whether you are talking about electrons or holes. (A good reference > is: K. Seeger, Semiconductor Physics: An Introduction Springer > Series in Solid-State Sciences 40) First: I personally have worked with supercooled AlGaAs HEMTs with mobilities in the range 2x10^6 cm2/Vs to 4x10^6 cm2/Vs. In a microstructure, fields can be as high as you like, just make the channel shorter, just like on the 90 nm(!) transistors you will be writing this stuff on. 0.5 V over 90 nm is >10^6 V/m. You cant take the voltage much above ~100uV before heating it to >1K. Lets take 1K as the ballistic limit. HEMTs can support ballistic transport to 100s of microns at low temperatures - so the original question about supercooled stuff was totally valid. In ballistic transport, talk about drift velocities is meaningless. Next, all of the answers posted by the other posters are not relevant to the original question, which was: what is the mass increase of an electron? The drift velocity is purely net velocity after multiple impacts. The mass increase is dependent purely on energy. Drift velocity purely means after the random-walk, and what we want to measure is - One electron at a potential of one volt has an energy of one eV. (eV/c^2)/m_e = 10^-6. Translation - put a megavolt across a piece of wire and the electrons will be relativistic. The wire will also get quite hot, which will mask the effect you are looking for. Fundamentally, under macroscopic conditions the electrons are in thermal equilibrium with the lattice, so any mass increase of the electrons is masked under the x1836 mass increase of the nuclei. But it is small and there. === Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetism Studied your post, and your theory, are your 6D axes orthogonal, or do they require non- orthogonality? Incidentally, 6D is very new to me, so my interpretations below are likely going to sound dumb to you, but Ill risk it, be kind. > Once the approximation that leads to the Einstein-Maxwell action is > made, > > Just a formality, but action is an invariant, usually. > How would one approximate an invariant? > Well an invariant doesnt mean a constant! OOps understood, I tangented... > The variational principle is based on a product of two coordinate > scalars and the volume element sqrt(det(g), that is a calibration > invariant. Now suppose R and W differ but little from some constant > values: > R = R0 + e R1 + O(2)... > W = W0 + e W1 + O(2)... > RW = R0W0 + e (W0 R1 + R0 W1) + O(2)... > so the variation reduces to the sum of variations of the first order > parts. So the approximation amounts to discarding higher order terms, > as usual. Ok, what threw me was the thought that action may not be invariant in 6D, i.e. possibly relative. Ill presume action is invariant in 6D. >everything goes as before, only one is actually dealing with a > charge distribution in the true sense of the inhomogeneous Maxwell > equations, rather than something like {sum_over_e} e_k delta(x_k). One > can recover deltas by Fourier analysis if needed. > > Yes, if Im not mistaken those deltas may either be > the probabilty field of the classical charge location > or it may, in another context be the electric field of > said charge, that is sometimes described by virtual > Could you rephrase this question? Well sir, it wasnt really a question. Only a matter of my *semantic* interpretation, which is crude at best, so the (?) was meant to mean I didnt intend a declaration. in that paragraph. >That there are 2 new > dimensions simply corresponds to the fact that there is antimatter. > > Theres nothing simply here,(for me). If I understand you correctly, > you have generated a 6D field to account for antimatter, is > that what you meant? > Well this idea works for electrodynamics alone with one extra timelike > dimension, that is > div E = d/dx5 S4 > (curl B - dE/dt)k = d/dx5 Sk etc. > where > Fm5 = Sm I think that parallels Kaluzas 5D, is that where some of your ideas come from? > You also get > T(Maxwell)mn,n = Fmn (d/dx5 Sn) If I read that correctly, dx5 is invariant? > However there is no way to make this into a field theory for A and g > together because sqrt(det(g)) has non-integer weight. Ok, you dont need to respond to this comment, but I have no major problem with non-integer weight if you allow non-integer dimensionality. >To get g in you > must go to six, and the current gets almost duplicated but not quite - > the EM laws in the limit are now > div E = (d/dx5 S4 + d/dx6 T4) I think I see what youre saying, the last term in the () bracket is a graviational component? > (curl B - dE/dt)k = (d/dx5 Sk + d/dx6 Tk) > T(Maxwell)mn,n = Fmn (d/dx5 Sn + d/dx6 Tn) > The current is still conserved but only the sum! So in the limit we > get inhomogeneous EM with creation/annihilation accounted. Again allow my crude interpretation, but in your last equation, it appears thats a description of photon exchange (albiet in terms of Maxwell) is balanced. And again please cut me a bit of slack here, in your dimensions x5 and x6 we have a virtual equation between matter in x6 (v -drl Incidentally, I employed a 3D metric g_uv = g*g_uv + A_u B_v g = |g_uv| , A_u and B_v are EM potentials, an