mm-1077 === Subject: Re: terms in Math by support1.mathforum.org (8.11.6/8.11.6/The Math Forum, $Revision: 1.9 primary) id iBHMLmj09356; >Can anyone tell me the URL with pages devoted to math \ terms. One such is http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ === Subject: Re: coverings of a Mobius band by support1.mathforum.org (8.11.6/8.11.6/The Math Forum, $Revision: 1.9 primary) id iBHMLmT09372; >Are the even degree covers of a Mobius band annulus(es)? Are the odd degree covers of a Mobius band, Mobius bands again? What is the universal cover of a Mobius band? Yes, yes, and R x [-1, 1]. One can imagine a strip of paper with n half-twists before gluing the ends as the total space of the degree n cover of the Mobius band. The strip of paper is I x [-1, 1], and the gluing map for taping the ends is the homeomorphism (-1)^n * - : [-1, 1] --> [-1, 1], so we get an annulus for n even and a Mobius strip for n odd. For the universal cover, imagine an in\finite strip with \ in\finitely many half-twists. Todd Trimble === Subject: Re: The Possible Cure For AIDS in part: > There are no As, Gs, 4s, \ Os, >>The G is gimmel the 3 rd letter of the Hebrew alphabet. >>The vowels (mplicit in old Hebrew but made explicit by the Masorites) >>include an ah sound and a oh sound. >AFAIK the Torah codes are never done with the vowels. Thats quite true. Including vowels makes it harder to \ \find matches. But if someone wanted to \find English words in the Tanakh, the standard convention is, of course, Aleph for A and Ayin for O. As for the number 404, two letters would represent that in standard Hebrew numeric notation: Tau and Daleth. But Hebrew has a word for silver, although *ancient* Hebrew hardly had a word for oxygen, even if it certainly has one today. Actually, we should be asking what letters of the Hebrew alphabet are supposed to stand for and ! John Savard http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html === Subject: Re: The Possible Cure For AIDS > But Hebrew has a word for silver, although *ancient* Hebrew hardly had a Kessef. > word for oxygen, even if it certainly has one today. Khamtzan which means sour-er. This corresponds to the German Saurstuff. > Actually, we should be asking what letters of the Hebrew alphabet are > supposed to stand for and ! There is a typefont used to crossreference passages in the Talmud to the Shulkhan Arooch. It looks like superscripts because of the way it is printed. This was originated about 1500 of the common era. Bob Kolker === Subject: Re: The Possible Cure For AIDS in part: >There are no As, Gs, 4s, \ Os, etc. in Hebrew. Did you transliterate >these according to some arbitrary scheme, or did you search for Hebrew >letter strings? Not that it matters, of course. But while were talking about a cure for AIDS... Some years back, there were news stories about how, for AIDS research, modi\fied mice were created with human immune systems. This was done by taking cells from human fetuses. Naturally, this was controversial because of the abortion issue. I noted that nobody cares about mouse fetuses. If you can \fix a mouse so that it _can_ get AIDS by giving it a human beings immune system, it would seem you could \fix a human so that he \ cant get AIDS by giving him a mouses immune system. There were probably very good reasons why this couldnt _really_ be done, but I had thought it worth mentioning. John Savard http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html === Subject: Re: Beals conjecture > => A large prize is offered by banker Andrew Beal for a solution to > => the Beal Conjecture: the equation x^p + y^q = z^r has no solutions > => for p, q, r > 2 and coprime integers x, y, z. > => => Sorry if this has been discussed here - my only justi\fication > => is that I just recently discovered this group but I am curious to > => know if Wiles proof of FLT also covers the Beal Conjecture > => Or have any counter-examples been found? Wiles proof covered the case p=q=r and relaxed the coprime requirement for x, y, & z. IE: There is no integer solution when p=q=r whatever the coprimality of x, y, & z. tom -- We have discovered a therapy ( NOT a cure ) for the common cold. Play tuba for an hour. === Subject: Mathforge.net :: Near-numbers, autonomic computing, John Derbyshire, and Church-Turing posting-account=Jy65eAwAAADVuRECxXfbsbHI5uTpc8FY The Latest Math News from Mathforge.net http://mathforge.net ****An invitation to additive prime number theory**** A.V. Kumchev and D.I. Tolev have compiled a short document entitled An Invitation to Additive Prime Number Theory[~60pp, pdf]. The document serves as an introductory guide to graduate-level students on... http://mathforge.net/index.jsp?page=seeReplies&messageNum=981 ****Are there encoded messages in the Bible?**** researchers both supporting and denying the statistical evidence for Ôhidden messages found in the Old Testament \ tell their tales. Some... http://mathforge.net/index.jsp?page=seeReplies&messageNum=974 ****Near-numbers: the new Ôlimit**** Theres a very interesting paper by Frank J Swenton of Middlebury College called Limits and the System of Near-Numbers[19pp, pdf]. What seemed at \first glance (at the title and abstract) like an uninspired... http://mathforge.net/index.jsp?page=seeReplies&messageNum=970 ****Introduction to autonomic computing**** While not itself mathematical in nature, the concept is built around ideas garnered from areas of arti\ficial intelligence research and it is easy to see that autonomic computing could have applications... http://mathforge.net/index.jsp?page=seeReplies&messageNum=969 ****Derbyshires Diary**** John Derbyshire, author of Prime Obsession, has a mathematical problem accompanying each of his Diary entries located in his Web Journalism folder. If you sift through enough of the partisan propaganda... http://mathforge.net/index.jsp?page=seeReplies&messageNum=968 ****Maple 9.5 Released**** MapleSoft has released version 9.5 of their popular symbolic and numeric computational software suite Maple. New Features include added packages (optimization, logic, and root \finding), OpenMaple access... http://mathforge.net/index.jsp?page=seeReplies&messageNum=967 ****Mathematica 5.1 released**** The Mathematica version has jumped a tenth of a point, and Wolfram has added scores of new features to the new release, including Web Services support, a benchmarking package, string manipulation functions,... http://mathforge.net/index.jsp?page=seeReplies&messageNum=966 ****Quantum computers and the Church-Turing Thesis**** The original Church-Turing Thesis states that every function which would naturally be regarded as computable can be computed by a Turing Machine and Petrus H. Potgeiter mentions in his paper Zeno Machines... http://mathforge.net/index.jsp?page=seeReplies&messageNum=963 ****Sobering U.S. Student Math Scores**** In a disheartening follow-up to the Putnam story below, news (Seattle Times) outlets (New York Times)everywhere are reporting the horrid state of U.S. student math skills. The Organisation for Economic... http://mathforge.net/index.jsp?page=seeReplies&messageNum=959 ÔMathforge ran a story about the Putnam \ Competition... http://mathforge.net/index.jsp?page=seeReplies&messageNum=958 === Subject: What kind of matrix can map positive element vectors to positive element vectors? Hi all, Suppose I have a matrix A, and a positive element vector x, then y=A*x, I want y to be also positive element vector... What can I say about A? I want all such kinds of A? What kinds of A can let me have both directions: x positive elements <=> y=A*x positive elements? === Subject: Re: What kind of matrix can map positive element vectors to positive element vectors? > Hi all, > Suppose I have a matrix A, and a positive element vector x, > then y=A*x, > I want y to be also positive element vector... > What can I say about A? I want all such kinds of A? > What kinds of A can let me have both directions: > x positive elements <=> y=A*x positive elements? Take a simple case and try to learn from it. The unit vectors for x will pull out the columns of A. Sure seems to say that A must at least have all of its elements positive. === Subject: Re: What kind of matrix can map positive element vectors to positive element vectors? > Hi all, > > Suppose I have a matrix A, and a positive element vector x, > > then y=A*x, > > I want y to be also positive element vector... > > What can I say about A? I want all such kinds of A? > > What kinds of A can let me have both directions: > > x positive elements <=> y=A*x positive elements? > > > > Take a simple case and try to learn from it. > The unit vectors for x will pull out the columns of A. > Sure seems to say that A must at least have all of its > elements positive. Necessary and suf\ficient. === Subject: How to determine parameter integer values such that quadratic has integer solutions? posting-account=uJhfTw0AAACZ85X1hg4ZQuYw9kXQVPPG Hi all, In particular, Im interested in \finding the \ positive integer values of g such that the following quadratic in v has integer roots: v^2 - 7v + (12 - 12g) Evidently this requires that 1 + 48g be a perfect square. I can have Mathematica spit out such values, which begin with: 0, 1, 6, 11, 13, 20, 35, ... This sequence is more conveniently summarized as something-mod-something-else, but I forget exactly what the two somethings are. How to \figure this out? cdj === Subject: Re: How to determine parameter integer values such that quadratic has integer solutions? > In particular, Im interested in \finding the \ positive integer values of > g such that the following quadratic in v has integer roots: > v^2 - 7v + (12 - 12g) v = (7 +- sqr(49 - 48 + 48g)/2 = (7 +- sqr(1 + 48g)/2 sqr(1 + 48g) must be odd number, 2n + 1 1 + 48g = 4n^2 + 4n + 1 12g = n^2 + n = n(n + 1) Case 12 | n. Done Case 4 | n, not 3 | n. 3 | n+1; n = 3k - 1 Case 3 | n, not 2 | n. 4 | n+1; n = 4k - 1 Case 2 | n, not 4 | n. Not possible Three family parametrization of solutions. n = 12k n = 3k - 1 provided 4 | n n = 4k - 1 provided 3 | n Expect some duplicates. > Evidently this requires that 1 + 48g be a perfect square. I can have > Mathematica spit out such values, which begin with: 0, 1, 6, 11, 13, > 20, 35, ... > This sequence is more conveniently summarized as > something-mod-something-else, but I forget exactly what the two > somethings are. How to \figure this out? === Subject: Re: How to determine parameter integer values such that quadratic has integer solutions? posting-account=uJhfTw0AAACZ85X1hg4ZQuYw9kXQVPPG The square root of 1+48g is odd... for Ôs sake \ Im blind.... === Subject: Re: How to determine parameter integer values such that quadratic has integer solutions? cdj: Heres an outline: We know that 1+48g is a perfect square. Since g is an integer, 48g is even, and 1+48g is odd. So, the square root of 1+48g is odd, and we can write that square root as 2n+1 for some integer n. Thus, (2n+1)^2 = 1+48g Expanding and simplifying, 4n^2+4n+1 = 1+48g 4n^2+4n = 48g n^2+n = 12g We need a little number theory here: Consider the above equation (mod 12): (n^2+n) (mod 12) = 0 Trying the 11 possibilities, we \find that n (mod 12) must be 0, 3, 8, or 11, that is, we must be able to write n as 12k or 12k+3 or 12k+8 or 12k+11 for some integer k. (The above condition is equivalent to (n^2+n) = 0 (mod 3) AND (n^2+n) = 0 (mod 4), so with some work, we really need only to consider 3+4 = 7 cases.) Substituting for the \first possibility (n = 12k, that is, n is a multiple of 12), n^2+n = (12k)^2+(12k) = 144k^2+12k = 12(12k^2+k) But, n^2+n = 12g, so this case gives: 12(k^2+k) = 12g, that is, g = 12k^2+k The second possibility (n = 12k+3, that is, n is 3 more than a multiple of 12) similarly gives n^2+n = (12k+3)^2+(12k+3) = 144k^2+84k+12 = 12(12k^2+7k+1) 12(12k^2+7k+1) = 12g, so, g = 12k^2+7k+1 The other possibilities (n = 12k+8, n=12k+11) give after similar calculations, g = 12k^2+17k+6, and g = 12k^2+23k+11 If k > 0, then all four possibilities clearly give nonnegative values for g. (For k = 0, we generate the \first four values of your sequence: 0, 1, 6, 11.) Suppose we want to generate a list of such values: We can exhaust all the possibilities for g by evaluating the above four formulas for g for each k = 0,1,2,3,... (When writing your list, because you need positive integer values for g, youll need to throw away the \ \first element of your list, 12(0)^2+(0)=0.) Considering the values of g generated by a particular k, we have (clearly): 12k^2+k < 12k^2+7k+1 < 12k^2+17k+6 < 12k^2+23k+11. So, the smallest value of g generated by k+1 is: 12(k+1)^2+(k+1) = 12k^2+25k+13 > 12k^2+23k+11 That is, the smallest value for g generated by k+1 is larger than the largest value generated by k. So, we can write down a complete ordered list (a sequence that gives the possible solutions for g in increasing order) by writing down the four possibilities for g generated by 0 (in increasing order), then the four generated by 1, then those for 2, and so on. I dont know how to write the sequence more compactly than \ by writing down the above rule. Travis > Hi all, > In particular, Im interested in \finding the \ positive integer values of > g such that the following quadratic in v has integer roots: > v^2 - 7v + (12 - 12g) > Evidently this requires that 1 + 48g be a perfect square. I can have > Mathematica spit out such values, which begin with: 0, 1, 6, 11, 13, > 20, 35, ... > This sequence is more conveniently summarized as > something-mod-something-else, but I forget exactly what the two > somethings are. How to \figure this out? > cdj === Subject: Integral posting-account=DH5daAwAAADTxT0WC17CRoCKZYkI-swj Hi. What is the integral of 1/(x^5 + x^2 + x - 1) dx in closed form? === Subject: Re: Integral >Hi. >What is the integral of 1/(x^5 + x^2 + x - 1) dx in closed form? http://integrals.wolfram.com/ says: RootSum[-1+#1+#1^2+#1^5 &, (Log[x-#1] / (1+2#1+5#1^4)) &] Thomas === Subject: Re: Integral > Hi. > What is the integral of 1/(x^5 + x^2 + x - 1) dx in closed form? As soon as you come up with a closed form of factorization of x^5 + x^2 + x - 1 (one linear factor and two quadratic factors), I will be able to tell you more. === Subject: Re: Integral Mike4ty, Ugly, I think. Factor the polynomial (warning, its irreducible over the integers), then apply the method of partial fractions. Travis > Hi. > What is the integral of 1/(x^5 + x^2 + x - 1) dx in closed form? === Subject: Re: Integral > Hi. > What is the integral of 1/(x^5 + x^2 + x - 1) dx in closed form? The hard part is solving the quintic. There is a real root near 0.568544, a complex conjugate pair near 0.91612 +/- 0.57771 i, and another pair near 0.622848 +/- 1.03222 i. Once you have the factors, its an easy partial fractions decomposition, provided you dont mind approximate answers. Mathematica 5.0 for Mac OS X -- Terminal graphics initialized -- In[1]:= Integrate[1./(x^5+x^2+x-1),x] Out[1]= 1. (-0.22894 ArcTan[0.484391 (-1.2457 + 2. x)] - > 0.189874 ArcTan[0.865487 (1.83224 + 2. x)] + > 0.361679 Log[0.586544 - 1. x] - 2 > 0.0641575 Log[1.45342 - 1.2457 x + x ] - 2 > 0.116682 Log[1.17302 + 1.83224 x + x ]) -- Dave Seaman Judge Yohns mistakes revealed in Mumia Abu-Jamal ruling. === Subject: Galois group = A_4 The following question has been bugging me : I am trying to come up with a quartic polynomial whose Galois group is A_4. I know I can go about the business of \finding a discriminant that is the square of a rational number, and the resolvent cubic is irreducible. But I was wondering if there was a more illuminating way to geometrically come up with a quartic polynomial. In particular, we know A_4 has no transpositions and no 4-cycles. So, what can I say about the quartic? Wouldnt it be true that since there are no transpositions, the quartic cannot have exactly 2 real roots? What can I deduce about the fact that the Galois group has no 4-cycles? Tony === Subject: Re: Question about Presidents Social Security plan >Yes, except that the government doesnt have an account \ with $2 >trillion in it. So it would have to sell bonds in that amount. The >simpler method is to directly credit the SS trust fund with whatever >it needs to cover the shortfall, if and when it occurs. Except of course the government would have to print money to cover the shortfall which would quickly lead to hyperinßation. You can issue bonds but there has to be some expectation that you can pay off those bonds when they come due, you see, and with 95% or whatever percent of the federal budget dedicated to paying pension checks that doesnt leave much room to pay any other bills. Ideally you take care of this by increasing the contributions slightly well in advance and restraining the growth of the program to inßation. If we had done this back in, oh, 1983 the system would be solvent. Unfortunately we only did *half* of this: We raised FICA taxes and declared we had a surplus. But Congress never reined in entitlements and then spent the FICA surplus on other things. Bottom line is the surplus disappears from the books around 2011 and from that point on the system runs in the red. And it only gets *redder* the further out you go, with too few workers paying into the system to cover bene\fits going out. -- Iraq was a brilliant campaign fought with minimal casualties, 11 September was a humiliating failure by government to ful\fill its primary role of national defence. But Democrats who complained that Bush was too slow to act on doubtful intelligence re 9/11 now profess to be horri\fied that he was too quick to act on doubtful intelligence re Iraq. This is not a serious party. === Subject: Re: Question about Presidents Social Security plan OrionCA says... >Iraq was a brilliant campaign fought with minimal >casualties, 11 September was a humiliating failure >by government to ful\fill its primary role of >national defence. But Democrats who complained that >Bush was too slow to act on doubtful intelligence >re 9/11 now profess to be horri\fied that he was too >quick to act on doubtful intelligence re Iraq. This >is not a serious party. Whoever said that is not a serious commentator. The comparison is stupid. -- Daryl McCullough Ithaca, NY === Subject: Re: Question about Presidents Social Security plan >OrionCA says... >>Iraq was a brilliant campaign fought with minimal >>casualties, 11 September was a humiliating failure >>by government to ful\fill its primary role of >>national defence. But Democrats who complained that >>Bush was too slow to act on doubtful intelligence >>re 9/11 now profess to be horri\fied that he was too >>quick to act on doubtful intelligence re Iraq. This >>is not a serious party. >Whoever said that is not a serious commentator. The >comparison is stupid. Brilliant counterargument there. Mark Stein, btw, is a respected political commentator both in the UK and the United States. And he was absolutely correct in his statement. you are not a serious political party anymore. -- Iraq was a brilliant campaign fought with minimal casualties, 11 September was a humiliating failure by government to ful\fill its primary role of national defence. But Democrats who complained that Bush was too slow to act on doubtful intelligence re 9/11 now profess to be horri\fied that he was too quick to act on doubtful intelligence re Iraq. This is not a serious party. === Subject: Re: Question about Presidents Social Security plan >>Yes, except that the government doesnt have an account with $2 >>trillion in it. So it would have to sell bonds in that amount. The >>simpler method is to directly credit the SS trust fund with whatever >>it needs to cover the shortfall, if and when it occurs. >Except of course the government would have to print money to cover the >shortfall which would quickly lead to hyperinßation. The government prints money, i.e. monetizes the debt, for only two reasons: (1) to meet the publics demand for wallet money in lieu of bank deposits, and (2) to provide the reserves banks need to meet their reserve ratio requirements. Future payments to social security bene\ficiaries will not require the printing of money. It will involve de\ficit spending, all of which will be covered by the sale of bonds. >You can issue >bonds but there has to be some expectation that you can pay off those >bonds when they come due, you see, and with 95% or whatever percent of >the federal budget dedicated to paying pension checks that doesnt >leave much room to pay any other bills. The Treasury has no problem redeeming its bonds, and never will. The amount of government spending going to social security and medicare is currently about 35% of the total spending. That will increase as baby boomers retire, but it will never come close to 95% of total spending. >Ideally you take care of this by increasing the contributions slightly >well in advance and restraining the growth of the program to >inßation. If we had done this back in, oh, 1983 the system would be >solvent. The program is solvent and will be for at least forty years. If and when the trust fund runs out, the shortage can be made up by government borrowing. That will increase the de\ficit, but only during the peak years of bene\fits for baby boomers. They too will \ die. >Unfortunately we only did *half* of this: We raised FICA >taxes and declared we had a surplus. But Congress never reined in >entitlements and then spent the FICA surplus on other things. There is no way the FICA surplus can be kept in a lock box. Those funds would be spent even if the on-budget were in balance. >Bottom line is the surplus disappears from the books around 2011 and >from that point on the system runs in the red. And it only gets >*redder* the further out you go, with too few workers paying into the >system to cover bene\fits going out. The surplus FICA revenues are expected to disappear about 2018, which simply means the so-called trust fund will stop increasing in value at that time. It is conservatively projected to remain in the black decades longer. === Subject: Re: Question about Presidents Social Security plan >So my question is, wouldnt it make more >sense to just GIVE that $2 trillion to >social security, which is guaranteed >to \fix things by exactly $2 trillion, just >leaving a small $0.7 trillion shortfall after >75 years? If we had dealt with the problem 20 years ago it would have cost a lot less to \fix. Reagan tried but Congress refused to rein in entitlements. They simply raised the FICA and threw more money at it hoping that by the time anyone got wise theyd all be \ retired (on a FEDERAL pension) themselves. Clinton hemmed and hawed for 8 years and held blue ribbon commissions whose recommendations he quietly \filed away for the next Administration to act on. Meanwhile the problem got bigger, not better. Setting aside a small fraction of the FICA taxes to allow workers to invest in their own pension plans doesnt actually cost \ Social Security anything. There is no lockbox full of money being set aside to pay retirees; it all comes out of the General Revenue fund anyway. These retirement accounts will generate enough taxable revenue to offset the loss in FICA taxes going into the system; theyll create new revenue streams into the Treasury. Put it like this. Right now you get ~ 1.75% annual return on your FICA investment, paid out of the Treasury when you retire. If you invested that money privately youd get at least that and probably much more, paid out of the growth in the GDP between now and retirement. In effect its a redistribution of wealth (which should make liberals happy but go \figure) because what you \ dont tap from that revenue stream goes into the pockets of wealthy investors and multinational corporations. -- Iraq was a brilliant campaign fought with minimal casualties, 11 September was a humiliating failure by government to ful\fill its primary role of national defence. But Democrats who complained that Bush was too slow to act on doubtful intelligence re 9/11 now profess to be horri\fied that he was too quick to act on doubtful intelligence re Iraq. This is not a serious party. === Subject: Re: Question about Presidents Social Security plan <57u6s0tmu6hrfdaqsjirlk290r7u5p3v4l@4ax.com> posting-account=v1V-4A0AAAD0uc5c2ERg25Qdl2W__hSu > Put it like this. Right now you get ~ 1.75% annual return on your > FICA investment, paid out of the Treasury when you retire. If you > invested that money privately youd get at least that and probably > much more, paid out of the growth in the GDP between now and I \figure it differently. If this applied to one or two individuals, it would indeed work the way you say. But when applied to entire populations, I think it would work another way. All this money is going to be put in one particular area of the economy - the stock market. The stock market operates on demand and supply. While the money is going in, the stock market goes up and absorbs all the money. Now recall that the whole problem is that at some point, there are going to be many more retirees than contributors to the system. Shifting it to the stock market is not going to change that fundamental characteristic. At some point, there simply will be many more sellers than buyers. When that happens, the stock market adjusts by going down. Given the volume of the movements, and the fact that the smart money will have ßown out of the stock market a little earlier, it will crash. So the situation is, instead of the ~1.75% return there will be tremendous loss of capital. > retirement. In effect its a redistribution of wealth (which should Yes, in effect it is indeed nothing but a redistribution of wealth. But I dont agree with the direction you seem to think it works \ in. === Subject: Re: Question about Presidents Social Security plan >> Put it like this. Right now you get ~ 1.75% annual return on your >> FICA investment, paid out of the Treasury when you retire. If you >> invested that money privately youd get at least that and probably >> much more, paid out of the growth in the GDP between now and >I \figure it differently. If this applied to one or two individuals, >it would indeed work the way you say. But when applied to entire >populations, I think it would work another way. >All this money is going to be put in one particular area of >the economy - the stock market. or the real estate market, or the municipal bond market, or any of a hundred other investments. Historically all of these have outperformed Social Security over time. Most pension plans dont put all their eggs in one basket, like Social Security does. SS is REQUIRED BY LAW to invest in the infusion of new workers over time and we know that aint gonna happen; just the opposite is happening. -- Iraq was a brilliant campaign fought with minimal casualties, 11 September was a humiliating failure by government to ful\fill its primary role of national defence. But Democrats who complained that Bush was too slow to act on doubtful intelligence re 9/11 now profess to be horri\fied that he was too quick to act on doubtful intelligence re Iraq. This is not a serious party. === Subject: Re: Question about Presidents Social Security plan >by the amount of $2.7 trillion in 75 years. >Bush administration has a plan. The plan is >to privatize some parts of social security. Bush has a notion, not a plan. The actual plan, following the precedent of Cheneys energy plan, will be prepared by brokerages and mutual funds, with their recommendations being weighted according to their contributions to the GOP. === Subject: Re: Question about Presidents Social Security plan posting-account=v1V-4A0AAAD0uc5c2ERg25Qdl2W__hSu >by the amount of $2.7 trillion in 75 years. >Bush administration has a plan. The plan is >to privatize some parts of social security. > Bush has a notion, not a plan. > The actual plan, following the precedent of Cheneys \ energy plan, > will be prepared by brokerages and mutual funds, with their > recommendations being weighted according to their contributions to > the GOP. Bush does have something in it for him, too. It will leave the stock market jumping for joy, and Bushs legacy will be to leave the economy booming. Whether its a false or temporary boom, wont be his concern. And in any case, he will have lots of defenders who will claim the followup bubble-bursting and social-security money getting swallowed up by the smart crowd, was caused by the evil lefties and had nothing to do with the original mighty grand plan... === Subject: Re: Question about Presidents Social Security plan posting-account=i3qD7AwAAACHjGKcE_VihY5XWtSCm1bP This [privatize some parts of social security] will cost $2 trillion to set up. So my question is, wouldnt it make more sense to just GIVE that $2 trillion to social security, which is guaranteed to \fix things by exactly $2 trillion, just leaving a small $0.7 trillion shortfall after 75 years? The counter-argument would be that in doing so youd simply be perpetuating a poor system that by your own words remains in de\ficit, still will be unsustainable because of its design, and you are also erroneous (if not deliberately misleading) by referring to $0.7 trillion as small. There are other counter-arguments as well (you fail to view the entire exchange of revenues and bene\fits, for example). You were on stronger ground elsewhere on this thread when you rightly noted that Wall Street would love to get its hands and and make money off all that money. Government would indirectly be giving money (taxing it and seeing that it was redirected) to Wall Street. A more legitimate problem with Bushs proposal is this would be nominally private but still would be a government-program set of accounts, and there would be temptations by Democrats, especially liberal Democrats, to engage in evil, anti-American lefty-fascist follies that Ralph Nader only could dream of decades ago, such as making the federal government the largest-by-far institutional investor -- and with that would come government inßuence and social responsibility, faddish far-left idiocy such as Israeli divestiture gimmicks, maybe government shareholder inßuence on politically disfavored industries like guns and automobiles, and so on. No normal American wants any threat of that. === Subject: Re: Question about Presidents Social Security plan > A more legitimate problem with Bushs proposal > is this would be nominally private but still would be > a government-program set of accounts, and there > would be temptations by Democrats, especially > liberal Democrats, to engage in evil, anti-American > lefty-fascist follies that Ralph Nader only could > dream of decades ago, such as making the > federal government the largest-by-far institutional > investor -- and with that would come government > inßuence and social responsibility, faddish far-left > idiocy such as Israeli divestiture gimmicks, maybe > government shareholder inßuence on politically > disfavored industries like guns and automobiles, and > so on. No normal American wants any threat of that. I cant imagine that political agitation for restriction of these investments would be con\fined to the left. Would the backers of this plan permit any of the money to be invested in ,for instance, manufacturers of contraceptives, particularly the so-called morning after pill? I have a plan that would make SS solvent for the rest of this century. Just increase the interest rate that the general fund pays to the Social Security fund by one percentage point. The same amount of cash that changes hands would be the same as present, but the SS fund has immediately become much more solvent due to the increase in the future value of its reserves. Just bookkeeping, but that is all claims of SS insolvency are anyway. -- To e-mail me get rid of the cats and dogs. === Subject: Re: Question about Presidents Social Security plan >> A more legitimate problem with Bushs proposal >> is this would be nominally private but still would be >> a government-program set of accounts, and there >> would be temptations by Democrats, especially >> liberal Democrats, to engage in evil, anti-American >> lefty-fascist follies that Ralph Nader only could >> dream of decades ago, such as making the >> federal government the largest-by-far institutional >> investor -- and with that would come government >> inßuence and social responsibility, faddish far-left >> idiocy such as Israeli divestiture gimmicks, maybe >> government shareholder inßuence on politically >> disfavored industries like guns and automobiles, and >> so on. No normal American wants any threat of that. > I cant imagine that political agitation for restriction \ of these >investments would be con\fined to the left. >Would the backers of this plan permit any of the money to be invested >in ,for instance, manufacturers of contraceptives, particularly the >so-called morning after pill? >I have a plan that would make SS solvent for the rest of this century. >Just increase the interest rate that the general fund pays to the Social >Security fund by one percentage point. The same amount of cash that >changes hands would be the same as present, but the SS fund has >immediately become much more solvent due to the increase in the future >value of its reserves. The SS tax was dramatically increased under Reagan and he used the money to fund the tax breaks for the wealthy and his monstrous increase in military spending to go to war against Russia and the Middle East (Iraq and Iran). Charlie >Just bookkeeping, but that is all claims of SS insolvency are anyway. >-- >To e-mail me get rid of the cats and dogs. === Subject: Re: Question about Presidents Social Security plan posting-account=v1V-4A0AAAD0uc5c2ERg25Qdl2W__hSu > The counter-argument would be that in doing so > youd simply be perpetuating a poor system that > by your own words remains in de\ficit, still will be > unsustainable because of its design, and you are I thought the problem was not the design, but baby boomers. Reverse booms should put money into social security, which could then be used up for the next boom. > also erroneous (if not deliberately misleading) by > referring to $0.7 trillion as small. Not looked at the budget \figures lately, have we? Maybe you have a point -- perhaps its erroneous in this context to call 0.7 trillion over 75 years as small. Its better called negligible or trivial or irrelevant. Any single one of the next presidents over the next 75 years could \fix it when the need became apparent. In the worse case, by borrowing (just like Bush plans to do), in the best case by using up some surplus. === Subject: Re: Question about Presidents Social Security plan posting-account=i3qD7AwAAACHjGKcE_VihY5XWtSCm1bP > I thought the problem was not the design, but > baby boomers. Reverse booms should put money > into social security, which could then be > used up for the next boom. Reverse booms??? The problem is both with the design and with demographics (not merely the Baby Boomers but lower fertility rates and longer lifespans). The program, if kept (which is most likely), should be converted to fully funded rather than as pay-as-you go. Also, it is irresponsible (and given our lives are involved, illogical) to count on recovery of the program after the Baby Boomers are dead, much less to be super\ficial in our approach and simply tax more during low-bene\ficiary-number years or decades to better \finance bene\fits during high-bene\ficiary-number years or decades that follow them. > Not looked at the budget \figures lately, have we? Im fully aware of them, as well as what Social Security and Medicare will do to the entire federal budget (not just those two programs) long before either of these two programs go bankrupt. > Maybe you have a point -- perhaps its erroneous > in this context to call 0.7 trillion over 75 years > as small. Its better called negligible or trivial > or irrelevant. Thats even more erroneous. > Any single one of the next presidents over the next > 75 years could \fix it when the need became > apparent. In the worse case, by borrowing (just like Bush > plans to do), in the best case by using up some surplus. Only a fool would count on a surplus then, much later, the realistic time when politicians will take action -- which is only when forced to, or in other words -- eventually. (They avoid doing anything unpleasant now even though it solves worse problems for us later.) There will not be an easy \fix later. Note that you say that at any time, it can be \fixed. That is the admission of error of all those who deny there is anything wrong with the system now. (There is; it is unsustainable and will cause many other \fiscal problems for the federal government long before it goes broke.) If it were up to me and we had to keep Social Security, I would take the roughly ten years we have left before the Baby Boomers start their retirements to convert from our pay-as-you-go (Ponzi scheme) system to a fully funded system. As that causes some pain to all, perhaps it is that one time conversion that might, might justify borrowing, because it would solve the problem with not only S.S. but with the federal \finances, and so justify the extra cost of interest in the long run. === Subject: Re: Question about Presidents Social Security plan posting-account=v1V-4A0AAAD0uc5c2ERg25Qdl2W__hSu > Maybe you have a point -- perhaps its erroneous > in this context to call 0.7 trillion over 75 years > as small. Its better called negligible or trivial > or irrelevant. > Thats even more erroneous. I think I was not clear enough. I will simplify. It works out to less than 10 billion per year. How big a deal in the federal budget do you want to make that? > There will not be an easy \fix later. Sure there will be. Note that Bushs \fix \ involves borrowing $2 trillion. Whats to stop a future president, who is facing the problem here and now instead of in the future, to simply borrow the much smaller amounts needed to keep it solvent, as and when needed? And it is indeed possible that when needed, the budget will happen to have a surplus, at least some of the times. === Subject: Re: Question about Presidents Social Security plan posting-account=i3qD7AwAAACHjGKcE_VihY5XWtSCm1bP Why not just level with the people and tell them Social Security is an unconstitutional use of their money and in 25 years that will cease? Liberals and those theyve made dependent on the federal government dont care about Social Securitys \ unconstitutionality; as the childish people they are, theyre delighted that Government can and will do all kinds of things to meet human needs. It is for this reason that for decades Social Security has been treated by politicians in DC as something that people hold sacred. (The dopiest of Dems even take sacredness further: they worship their God, FDR.) === Subject: Re: Question about Presidents Social Security plan posting-account=v1V-4A0AAAD0uc5c2ERg25Qdl2W__hSu > Youre assuming that Bush *wants* to \fix \ social security. > Nothing could be farther from the truth. He wants to make > sure that it goes bankrupt, and his privatization plan is > a crucial step. I dont think he particularly cares to see social security bankrupt -- I suspect the motivation is entirely different. Wall Street was helped strongly during the internet bubble by 401K funding. The major players made tons of money. But then the bubble burst, and the wall street honchos felt they werent rich enough. They saw a ray of light -- the next possible bubble could come from social security. So they are pulling all kinds of strings. And of course, our venerable president is a sucker for anything the rich guys say -- it must be the right thing to do if the havemores say so. He just doesnt believe the nice havemores would advise something that could have bad results. Its kind of Darwinian. Remeber, the folks who would be most exploited are mostly staunch Bush supporters, and would jump at anybody with both feet for suggesting he is doing something wrong. I dont know how much is really wrong if they are left -- by the actions of their favorite president -- with nothing in their golden days. Besides, they will blame the lib dem boogiemen anyways. And I suppose if it does go through, the smart folks could make some money at the expense of these non-havemore Bush supporters, because the stock market will have some irrational moments. Still, it just doesnt seem right, or American, or a good thing at all for the long term future. === Subject: Re: How to \find the extremum of the Absolute value of a function=?big5?Q?=EF=BC=9F?= My method is to differentiate |Z| w.r.t y, and then subtitute y1 and y2 into the above equation. Finally I got a simultaneous equations and solving for x1 and x2. But where confused me is that the derivative of an absolute value seems not exist, so my known method didnt work due to the absolute value. is there any other method to solve a extremum problem of an obsolute value? (Randy Poe)n2 50G > Suppose I have a complex-valued function Z, and Z=3DZ(x1,x2,y) > where x1,x2 and y are three real variables. I wanna |Z| has local > minimums at two given points y=3Dy1 and y=3Dy2, where x1 and x2 should be > adjusted to met this demand. > i.e. > Q=EF=BC=9AHow to \find x1 and x2 such that |Z| has local minimum at two > given points > y1 and y2 ? > To \find the minimimum for y=3Dy1, de\fine a new \ function: > W1(x1,x2) =3D Z(x1, x2, y1) > and use your favorite minimization technique. Similarly for y2. > - Randy --  Origin: j.b3.bc[Degre e]T  === Subject: Re: Question about Surreal Numbers > Timothy Murphy says... ... >Because everything is de\fined at once by a single recursive de\finition, >starting with nothing but the empty set: a number > > x = < L | R > > >is de\fined by two sets of numbers L,R with l < r for all l in L, r in R. ... > That is cute, but I dont think you can really get away from equivalence > classes. The problem is that this de\finition of number doesnt have the > property that x <= y and y <= x --> x=y. Well, acually there is, without equivalence classes, but the de\finition was incomplete. Lets have x = { Lx | Rx } and y = { Ly | Ry }. De\finition: x >= y iff (no x_R in R_x <= y and x <= no y_L in Ly). x <= y iff y >= x. x = y iff (x >= y and y <= x). And the numbers are those x for which: every x in Lx <= every x in Rx (the others are games, and for those the ordering relations do not hold). This de\fines the basis, although the numbers are not yet labelled. Addition, negation and multiplication can be de\fined on this basis (the de\finitions are again recursive). For instance, -x is \ de\fined approximately as { - Rx | - Lx }. And the \first label is given: 0 = { | }. 0 >= 0 is vacuously true. Next we \find 1 = { 0 | }, and so we can go on. Finally it can be shown that the numbers form a \field. And also you will \find that numbers have different representations: 1 = { 0 | } = { 0 | 2 } (== { 0 | { 0 | }} ) ... and so there are equivalence classes, but they are not needed for the de\finitions. (And, yes, it looks a bit like a two-sided \ Peano.) -- dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131 home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/ === Subject: swjpam format=ßowed; fyi, The Southwest Journal of Pure and Applied Mathematics (swjpam) no longer exists due to budgetary contraints. === Subject: Re: swjpam Discussion, linux) > fyi, > The Southwest Journal of Pure and Applied Mathematics (swjpam) no longer > exists due to budgetary contraints. I will never doubt the hammer again. Golly. -- Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others. -- Ambrose Bierce === Subject: Re: swjpam posting-account=UtgH7gwAAACpBhTelVPOXNP7RAfbtQrK > fyi, > The Southwest Journal of Pure and Applied Mathematics (swjpam) no longer > exists due to budgetary contraints. Is that just the excuse? Is the real reason editorial incompetence? Is this the \first blow of The Hammer? === Subject: do you have any smart way of \finding which number is bigger ? Using the fatest way: compare: 0.9^10 vs. 2*(0.9^19)+0.9^20 how long does it take you to \figure out which number is \ larger? === Subject: Re: do you have any smart way of \finding which number is bigger ? lucy escribi.97: > Using the fatest way: > compare: > 0.9^10 vs. 2*(0.9^19)+0.9^20 > how long does it take you to \figure out which number is larger? 2*(0.9^19)+0.9^20 = 0.9^10(2*0.9^9 + 0.9^10) = = 0.9^10(20*9^9 + 9^10)/10^10 = 0.9^10* 9^9*29/10^10 But 9^2 = 81 > 80, then 9^8 > 8^4*10^4 = 4096*10^4 ==> 9^9 > 36*10^7 ==> 29*9^9 > 36*29*10^7 = 1044*10^7 > 10^10 -- Ignacio Larrosa Ca.96estro A Coru.96a (Espa.96a) ilarrosaQUITARMAYUSCULAS@mundo-r.com === Subject: Re: do you have any smart way of \finding which number is bigger ? posting-account=Sny74g0AAADy66iGh6ZMdSlIFta_KAXh Err, the other thing you need to notice along this line is the 2* and the addition adding up to 5x Of course 0.9^20 < 0.9^10 === Subject: Re: do you have any smart way of \finding which number is bigger ? posting-account=Sny74g0AAADy66iGh6ZMdSlIFta_KAXh Err, the other thing you need to notice along this line is the 2* and the addition adding up to over 5x Of course 0.9^20 < 0.9^10 === Subject: Re: do you have any smart way of \finding which number is bigger ? posting-account=Sny74g0AAADy66iGh6ZMdSlIFta_KAXh A: 0.9^10 B: 2*(0.9^19)+0.9^20 Notice both pieces of B are positive. b1 > 0 b2>0 So if I can see one side of + larger than A then B > A 0.9^20 > 0.9^10 20 > 10 ergo B > A 5 seconds === Subject: Re: do you have any smart way of \finding which number is bigger ? lucy, Heres a way that doesnt use much explicit \ calculation. (It admittedly uses the fact that e < 2.9, which can easily be derived analytically, anyway). The Taylor series for log about 1 is: log(1+x) = x - (1/2)x^2 + (1/3)x^3 - ... Setting x = 1/9, we have: log(10/9) = log(1 + 1/9) = (1/9) - (1/2)(1/9)^2 + (1/3)(1/9)^3 - ... < 1/9 9 * log (10/9) < 1 9 log 10 - 9 log 9 < 1 Adding log 10, 10 log 10 - 9 log 9 < 1 + log 10 = log (e * 10) < log (29) [Here is where I invoke e < 2.9.] Subtracting log 9, 10 log 10 - 10 log 9 < log 29 - log 9 10 log (10/9) < log (29/9) = log (2 * (10/9) + 1) Exponentiating, (10/9)^10 < 2*(10/9) + 1 Multiplying both sides by (9/10)^20 (9/10)^10 < 2*(9/10)^19 + (9/10)^20 I suspect there is a much more elegant way. Maybe something with the expression 10 log 10 - 9 log 9 < log (29)? Travis > Using the fatest way: > compare: > 0.9^10 vs. 2*(0.9^19)+0.9^20 > how long does it take you to \figure out which number is larger? === Subject: Re: do you have any smart way of \finding which number is bigger ? > Using the fatest way: > compare: > 0.9^10 vs. 2*(0.9^19)+0.9^20 > how long does it take you to \figure out which number is larger? I dont know if its smart or fastest, but you \ can factor. 0.9^10 >?< 2 * (0.9^19) + 0.9^20 0.9^10 >?< 2 * (0.9^20)/0.9 + 0.9^20 0.9^10 >?< 0.9^20 * (2/0.9 + 1) 0.9^10 / 0.9^20 >?< 2/0.9 + 1 0.9^-10 >?< 2.2222... + 1 2.8679... < 3.2222... -- john === Subject: Re: do you have any smart way of \finding which number is bigger ? ETAtAhUAvgUxhHwS5c+oabk25UmVuHI06JUCFAza+ gLCc85dGRk3KQeD5aQy6jyx 0.9^10 ? 2*(0.9^19)+0.9^20 1 ? 2^(0.9^9) + 0.9^10 10^10 ? 20*9^9 + 9^10 = 29*9^9 9^9 = 729^3 > 720^2*700 = 518400*700 > 3.5e8, and 3.5*29 >100. Therefore ? is <. --OL === Subject: Re: do you have any smart way of \finding which number is bigger ? > 0.9^10 ? 2*(0.9^19)+0.9^20 > 1 ? 2^(0.9^9) + 0.9^10 > 10^10 ? 20*9^9 + 9^10 = 29*9^9 I followed you up to this point; you are now comparing 10^10 with 29 * 9^9 I dont understand the next line. > 9^9 = 729^3 > 720^2*700 = 518400*700 > 3.5e8, and 3.5*29 >100. > Therefore ? is <. -- john === Subject: Re: do you have any smart way of \finding which number is bigger ? posting-account=qrPIWAwAAABKr36mTyR-AQd_YQJSbfcG .9^10 = 0.3486784401 2*(0.9^19) + 0.9^20 = 0.39174699812516770581 The second one is larger time to do the problem -- (2 seconds for cut and paste maybe?) === Subject: Re: re:PROOF that 0.99999... = 1 > heres a much simpler proof: > statement: .9999999...=1 > since 9x=10x-x, > 9=9 > 9=9.9999999...-.9999999... > 9(1)=10(.9999999...)-.9999999 >> 9(1) =/= 9(.999...) >Huh? Nowhere in this proof does he assume that 9(1) = 9(.999...). He >assumes 9(1) = 9 (going from the second to last line that you quoted, to the >last line). >One reason this proof is de\ficient is because of the assumption that >10(.9999999...) = 9.9999999... (which is true, but needs to be proven). >--Mark But he assumes .999... = 1 in his equation before it is proven. Smarts Alt. Physics News Group http://pub39.bravenet.com/forum/show.php?usernum=3320272813& cpv=1 S. Enterprize (Science Journal) http://smart1234.s-enterprize.com/ === Subject: Re: re:PROOF that 0.99999... = 1 >> heres a much simpler proof: >> statement: .9999999...=1 >> since 9x=10x-x, > 9=9 >> 9=9.9999999...-.9999999... >> 9(1)=10(.9999999...)-.9999999 > 9(1) =/= 9(.999...) >>Huh? Nowhere in this proof does he assume that 9(1) = 9(.999...). He >>assumes 9(1) = 9 (going from the second to last line that you quoted, to >>the >>last line). >>One reason this proof is de\ficient is because of the assumption that >>10(.9999999...) = 9.9999999... (which is true, but needs to be proven). >>--Mark > But he assumes .999... = 1 in his equation before it is proven. > Smarts Alt. Physics News Group > http://pub39.bravenet.com/forum/show.php?usernum=3320272813& cpv=1 > S. Enterprize (Science Journal) > http://smart1234.s-enterprize.com/ jesus christ! do you know anything about mathematical induction?????????????? let x_n = 9*sum((1/10)^k,k=0..n) = 9*(1 + 1/10 + 1/100 + .. 1/10^n) = 9*(1.11111111...) = 9.999999.. then |10 - x_n| = |10 - 9*sum((1/10^k,k=0..n))| = |10 - ((1/10)^(k+1) - 1)/(1 - 1/10))| = |1/10^n| = 1/10^n < e for all n >= N > -log(e) that means, the difference between the in\finitely repeating decimal with period one is the same as 10, i.e. 9.9999999...... = 10 (ofcourse, this work for any number, not just 9) if you dont believe that x_n = 9.9999999999999999999 then thats your fault, you need to learn some simple math.... just try to \find me a number sticktly between .999999999999..... and 1! you can do this for all x if you want... x = [x] + {x} = ßoor(x) + sum((ßoor((n-x)*10^k) mod 10)/10^k) if x is terminating or repeating in its tail, then the sum has a simple solution and its easy to calculate the answer. if you put x = 1, the {x} = 0 x = .99999...... then sum is just over 9/10^k which is easily to compute again, the only thing that you can have any sorta problem with is how .9999999999 could be reprsented by the sum, but that is your problem... as any halfwit knows that. === Subject: Re: PROOF that 0.99999... = 1 > jesus christ! > do you know anything about mathematical induction?????????????? Enterprise does not even know what end comes out of. He is a total mathematical incompetent. He makes JSH look intelligent by comparison. Bob Kolker === Subject: Re: A Quantum Poem for Xmas