Subject: Differentiate of Abs[x] ???
  If I have a complex-valued funciton Z=Z(x1,x2,y) where x1,x2,y are
all real varables. Now I demand that |Z|^2 are local minimums at y=y1
and y=y2 with some choices of x1 and x2. (where |...| denotes absolute
value.)
  
  My idea is that, I differentiate |Z|^2 w.r.t y, then subtitute y1
and y2 into this equation and demand each equation 0; finally solve
the two simultaneous equations.
  
  But I found a big problem that Mathematica can't approach the
differentiation of absolute values? Another question, is my
method right? and is the differentiation of absolute value very hard
to approach mathematically?
===
Subject: Re :  NIntegrate a list
Hello Aaron,
Don't mix up x and theta !
If you want to use NIntegrate, just use Evaluate :
In[9]:=
Integrate[x*Sin[x]*{1, 2}, {x, -Pi, Pi}]
Out[9]=
{2*Pi, 4*Pi}
In[12]:=
NIntegrate[Evaluate[x*Sin[x]*{1,2}],{x,-Pi,Pi}]
Out[12]=
{6.28319,12.5664}
 
F.Jaccard
-----Message d'origine-----
DeÊ: Aaron Fude [mailto:aaronfude@yahoo.com] 
ËÊ: mathgroup@smc.vnet.net
ObjetÊ:  NIntegrate a list
I can Integrate this, but apparently not NIntegrate this:
Integrate[x*Sin[x]*{1, 2}, {theta, -Pi, Pi}]
but not
NIntegrate[x*Sin[x]*{1, 2}, {theta, -Pi, Pi}]
Is there a good way to do this (w/o writing loops)?
Aaron Fude 
===
Subject: creating exact numbers, strange behavior
I try to convert machine number into an exact number. I do this the 
following way:
In[] = Quotient[7.*10^30,10^30]
Out[] = 7
that is fine.
In[] = Quotient[7.*10^99, 10^99]
Out[] = 7
still fine.
In[] = Quotient[7.*10^100,10^100]
Out[] = 6
????????, I think that is bad.
Or am I doing something wrong?
-- 
PD Dr. Matthias Gottschalk
GeoForschungsZentrum
Projektbereich 4.1
Telegrafenberg
14473 Potsdam
Germany
tel/fax  +49 (0) 331 288-1418/1402
===
Subject: Re: please solve
Bob,
     I suggest you look at the formulations for
Savitsky-Golay filtering, they should get you there
in a nice systematic way, ie you will be able to
extend if you wish.  Perhaps searching for links
more usually associated with signal & image
processing might help.
Bob
I really prefer my full name:
Robert
===
Subject: Re:  simply problem (not for me) about axes scale
Set the PlotRange and the AspectRatio
Off[General::spell1];
xmin=0; xmax=3;
ymin=-1/2; ymax=4;
Plot[(3x-4)(x-2),{x,0,3},
Bob Hanlon
===
===
Subject: Re:  Integrate in version 5.1
The G5 does NOT have the same processor as the G4 :) So it is NOT just 
the speed.
J\.87nos
----------------------------------------------
Trying to argue with a politician is like lifting up the head of a 
corpse.
(S. Lem: His Master Voice)
===
Subject: Using NMinimize to solve a system of equations
I am trying to use NMinimize to solve a system of equations, but I have been \
plagued with OverFlow, Underflow and division by zero problems when I change \
my F, L and WorkingPrecision.  Is there any other method in Mathematica to \
get reliable solutions to my equations ?
In[43]:=
f[F_, L_] := E^(-((F/a)^b/b)) - E^(-((L/a)^b/b)); 
NMinimize[{0, f[100, 1000]/f[1000, 2613.01757776] == 
     2768.91499137093/3351.95653836949 && 
    f[1000, 2613.01757776]/f[5000, 10000] == 
     3351.95653836949/1680 && 
    f[100, 1000]/f[5000, 10000] == 2768.91499137093/
      1680 && 0. < b < 1. && 10^(-16) < a < 10^11}, 
Danielle
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===
Subject: An argument pattern problem: ranges and lists
I am trying to use argument patterns to ensure that my function is only 
applied onto arguments which have the format
    pauli [_, _]
where the second argument should be an integer between 0 and 4.
So I defined a type
and declared my function as follows:
   f [p:pauliT] := DoSomething
This works fine, but another function takes a pair of arguments
   g [p:{pauliT,pauliT}] := DoSomethingElse
This is never called, because the pattern cannot be matched.
I observed:
   MatchQ[{pauli[1, 2], pauli[1, 3]}, {pauliT, pauliT}]
The problem seems to be that I named the second argument 's', because if 
I delete this name, it matches:
   pauliT = HoldPattern [pauli [_, s_Integer]];
   MatchQ[{pauli[1, 2], pauli[1, 3]}, {pauliT, pauliT}]
   pauliT = HoldPattern [pauli [_, _Integer]];
   MatchQ[{pauli[1, 2], pauli[1, 3]}, {pauliT, pauliT}]
So, how do I specify the range condition correctly?
   Simon
===
Subject: Re: slow eigenvectors and eigenvalues
The eigenvectors of a Toeplitz matrix (a very large one, so that the edge 
effects can be ignored) is made up of sine waves. This is because the left 
hand side of the eigenequation T.x=a x is a convolution, so if you transform \

to Fourier space it is a multiplication (i.e. the convolution theorem), 
which is a diagonal operation whose eigenvectors are the individual Fourier \

components.
Steve Luttrell
===
Subject: Aliases
Using another algebra program I can avoid the input and output of all
the arguments of a general function by running
Then \h1\ is used in place of \h1(x,X,t,T)\ in both input
and output.  Is there an analogous command for hiding function
arguments in Mathematica?
I'm using several arbitrary functions of four variables and some of the
output
is virtually unreadable due to all the occurences of \[x,X,t,T]\.
Please help.
===
Subject: Re:  simply problem (not for me) about axes scale
That makes the same scale on both axes so that circles truly come out as
circles.
you the same scale on each axis.
David Park
djmp@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~djmp/
Hi all
I've a problem. I cannot find in the master index which is the built-in
function that allow me to plot a curve with the same scale on the Y and
X axes. I mean... I want the same subdivisions length on the X and Y
axes on a 2D plot!
===
Subject: Re:  simply problem (not for me) about axes scale
You can control a lot of things in a plot. A little patience on your part 
will be needed, though, in order to fully understand how to go about it. Try \

this, for example,
In[1]:=
    {Table[j, {j, -4, 4, 1}], Table[j,
Tomas Garza
Mexico City
----- Original Message ----- 
===
Subject:  simply problem (not for me) about axes scale
===
Subject: Re:  simply problem (not for me) about axes scale
The default value of that option is  1/GoldenRatio (which gives 
allegedly pleasing relative axis lengths).
To learn how to do such things, you should consult the Mathematica Book 
in print or as part of the electronic Help system that is by default 
installed with Mathematica.  (Such options for Plot are discussed in 
subsection 1.9.2.)
The general principle is that modifications to default behavior of a 
function are typically provided by options, and you can discover all the 
options for a function by using the Options function, which also shows 
the default value for each option.  Thus:
     Options[Plot]
-- 
Murray Eisenberg                     murray@math.umass.edu
Mathematics & Statistics Dept.
Lederle Graduate Research Tower      phone 413 549-1020 (H)
University of Massachusetts                413 545-2859 (W)
710 North Pleasant Street            fax   413 545-1801
Amherst, MA 01003-9305
===
Subject: Re :  simply problem (not for me) about axes scale
Use :
Meilleures salutations
 
F.Jaccard
-----Message d'origine-----
DeÊ: Alessandro M. [mailto:mazuego@virgilio.it] 
ËÊ: mathgroup@smc.vnet.net
ObjetÊ:  simply problem (not for me) about axes scale
Hi all
I've a problem. I cannot find in the master index which is the built-in 
function that allow me to plot a curve with the same scale on the Y and 
X axes. I mean... I want the same subdivisions length on the X and Y 
axes on a 2D plot!
===
Subject: Re:  NIntegrate a list
I'm not sure why you want to integrate functions of x with respect to theta, \
but it's easily done symbolically:
Integrate[x*Sin[x]*{1, 2}, {theta, -Pi, Pi}]
{2*Pi*x*Sin[x], 4*Pi*x*Sin[x]}
The same thing with NIntegrate doesn't work because NIntegrate needs an \
integrand that resolves to NUMBERS.
If we change theta to x, these work:
Integrate[x*Sin[x]*{1, 2}, {x, -Pi, Pi}]
NIntegrate[x*Sin[x]*{1, 2}//Evaluate, {x, -Pi, Pi}]
but this doesn't:
NIntegrate[x*Sin[x]*{1, 2}, {x, -Pi, Pi}]
Bobby
-- 
DrBob@bigfoot.com
www.eclecticdreams.net
===
Subject: Re: NIntegrate a list
Aaron,
First, I assume, you meant x instead of theta:
   NIntegrate[x*Sin[x]*{1, 2}, {x, -Pi, Pi}]
Now, you can, of course, put N[_] around it:
   N[Integrate[x*Sin[x]*{1, 2}, {x, -Pi, Pi}]]
But this might try to do it first analytically, which you do not want. 
So, use Map:
   Map [NIntegrate[x*Sin[x]*#, {x, -Pi, Pi}] &, {1, 2}]
(In case, you are not too experienced, let me explain: I have written 
the left argument to 'Map' as \pure function\, i.e. a function where the 
parameters are referred to not by name but by position, i.e. we write 
'#1', '#2', '#3' etc. for them, or here, just '#', which is short for 
'#1', the one and only parameter of the function. The '&' at the end 
marks the construct before it as pure fucntion. And 'Map' takes the 
elements of the second parameter, the list, and puts them into the 
position maked with the '#'. This is, by the way, precisely, what 
Mathemtica does automatically in the first case (Integrate without N).)
HTH,
   Simon
===
Subject: Re:  NIntegrate a list
It's not clear what you are trying to do.  The first expression is 
equivalent to
x Sin[x] {1,2} Integrate[1,{theta,-Pi,Pi}]
is that really what you meant?  Or did you mean Integrate[theta 
Sin[theta] {1,2},{theta,-Pi,Pi}]?
Anyway x Sin[x] is not a numeric expression and NIntegrate works only 
on numeric expressions.
Ssezi
===
Subject: Re:  NIntegrate a list
x is not numeric if the variable of integration is theta.  Further, you need \
to 
use Evaluate.  Presumably, you meant
Integrate[x*Sin[x]*{1,2},{x,-Pi,Pi}]
{2*Pi, 4*Pi}
NIntegrate[Evaluate[x*Sin[x]*{1,2}],{x,-Pi,Pi}]
{6.283185307179588, 12.566370614359176}
Bob Hanlon
===
===
Subject: Re:  Apart's loss of functionality in 5.1
Try the \Copy as InputForm\ palette:
http://eclecticdreams.net/DrBob/copy_as_inputform.htm
Bobby
-- 
DrBob@bigfoot.com
www.eclecticdreams.net
===
Subject: Re:  Mathematica language issues
Yikes again!! It's a wonder we get anywhere at all!
But we do, so your examples must be perverse in some way.
Bobby
-- 
DrBob@bigfoot.com
www.eclecticdreams.net
===
Subject: Re: Mathematica language issues
Compile[{}, Module[{x = 0}, x++; While[EvenQ[x]];
      x]][]
x++; EvenQ[x] is CompoundExpression[ x++, EvenQ[ x ] ]
While[ test ] needs a test not a CompoundExpression
[ ... ]
Consider:
and
 
but you must:
 
 
and you should:
Out[4]= {{{{{1}}}}}
look at the evaluation order.
In[5]:= Unevaluated[ 1 + 1 ]*2 // Trace
Out[5]= {(1 + 1) 2, 2 (1 + 1), {1 + 1, 2}, 2 2, 4}
and 
In[6]:= 2 * Unevaluated[ 1 + 1 ] // Trace
Out[6]= {2 (1 + 1), 2 Unevaluated[1 + 1]}
In the first case Unevaluated[ 1 + 1 ] is seen _twice_ by the evaluator. 
And since Unevaluated[ expr ] give expr unevaluated as an argument to 
Times and Times reorders its arguments it is seen twice.
FullForm[ Unevaluated[ Unevaluated[ 1 + 1 ]*2 ] ]
Unevaluated[Times[Unevaluated[Plus[1, 1]], 2]]
Hope that helps,
Oliver
   Phone: ++49 +761 203 7385
===
Subject: Re:  Mathematica language issues
This is not a glitch but works exactly as one woudl expect.  You can 
see the difference and the reason by looking at Trace in both cases 
(although there is no need for that, if you understand Unevaluated you 
can see it right away).
First:
2*Unevaluated[1+1]//Trace
{2 (1+1),2 Unevaluated[1+1]}
First Unevaluated is stipped away and Mathematica attempts ot evaluate 
2*(1+1). Since it knows no rule to apply and the expression has not 
changed Unevaluated is restored and evaluation is completed with the 
output you see.
Unevaluated[1+1]*2//Trace
{(1+1) 2,2 (1+1),{1+1,2},2 2,4}
As before, first Unevaluated is stripped away and Mathematica tires to 
evaluate 2*(1+1). It now knows a rule to apply, which is given by the 
Orderless attribute and the canonical ordering, so it converts the 
expression into the form 2 (1+1). But now Unevaluated is not restored 
because the expression has changed so evaluation continues with 1+1 
evaluationg to 2 and finally you obtain 4.
Now, I have honstly considered this case only because I could see at 
once what what was going on. I do not knwo if any of the others are 
glitches but jusdging by my experience with the past \language 
glitches\ you have reported (unlike the more serious problems desribed 
in your last posting) I rather doubt it. However I have no time to 
spend on this just to prove a point (again).
Andrzej Kozlowski
Chiba, Japan
http://www.akikoz.net/~andrzej/
http://www.mimuw.edu.pl/~akoz/
===
Subject: Re:  Mathematica slows down
Does it matter? If we know why Prime is faster in some ranges than others, \
what can we do about it?
Still, if you want to speed things up, it's easy to do so.
Here's timing for a code similar to yours:
NumP=15000;
Timing@For[k=1,k<NumP,k++,
     gaps={Prime[k+1]-Prime[k],
         Prime[k+2]-2Prime[k+1]+Prime[k],
         Prime[k+3]-3Prime[k+2]+3Prime[k+1]-Prime[k],
         Prime[k+4]-4Prime[k+3]+6Prime[k+2]-4Prime[k+1]+Prime[k]};
     If[Mod[k,1000]\\[Equal]0,Print[gaps]]]
{8,-2,0,10}
{4,4,4,-26}
{8,14,-34,58}
{18,-2,-8,20}
{8,-4,24,-66}
{10,-2,4,-10}
{6,-2,18,-32}
{18,4,-18,30}
{8,4,14,-52}
{14,2,-16,40}
{14,-4,6,-12}
{12,-10,18,-28}
{6,8,-4,-14}
{14,-2,-6,46}
{19.812 Second,Null}
(Timing for your original code was 19.562 Second.)
Here's a code that's 9 times as fast:
Timing[For[k = 1, k < NumP, k++,
    gaps = {{-1, 1, 0, 0, 0}, {1, -2, 1,
         0, 0}, {-1, 3, -3, 1, 0},
        {1, -4, 6, -4, 1}} .
       Table[Prime[k + i], {i, 0, 4}];
     If[Mod[k, 1000] == 0, Print[gaps]]]]
(printed gaps omitted)
{2.172 Second, Null}
And we can still do a lot better:
NumP = 15000;
Timing[k = 1; primes =
     Table[Prime[k + i], {i, 0, 4}];
    While[k < NumP,
     gaps = {{-1, 1, 0, 0, 0},
         {1, -2, 1, 0, 0}, {-1, 3, -3, 1,
          0}, {1, -4, 6, -4, 1}} . primes;
      If[Mod[k, 1000] == 0, Print[gaps]];
      primes = Rest[Append[primes,
         Prime[k + 5]]]; k++]]
(printed gaps omitted)
{0.172 Second, Null}
That's over 100 times faster than the original. (I only expected to get \
about 15 times faster.)
Bobby
-- 
DrBob@bigfoot.com
www.eclecticdreams.net
===
Subject: Re:  Mathematica slows down
Hi George,
since you are computing the same primes too many times. A faster idea is to \

store them
Timing of your program for k=10000 is
44.4062 Seconds 
and with the following program the timing is 
1.3258 Seconds
l = Table[Prime[i], {i, 5}];
For[k = 1, k < 20001, k++,
  Gap[1] = {0, 0, 0, 2, -1}.l;
  Gap[2] = {0, 0, 1, -2, 1}.l;
  Gap[3] = {0, 1, -3, 6, -4}.l;
  Gap[4] = {1, -4, 6, 4, 1}.l;
  l = RotateRight[l, 1];
  l[[5]] = Prime[k + 5];
  ];
I can make it more efficient but this will be minor change.
good luck
yehuda
===
Subject: Re:  Mathematica slows down
I don't know what changes; however, you can speed it up by avoiding 
repeated calls of Prime for the same values
NumP=15000;
Table[pk[n]=Prime[n],{n,NumP}];
For[k=1,k<NumP,k++,
  Gap[1]=pk[k+1]-pk[k];
  Gap[2]=pk[k+2]-2pk[k+1]+pk[k];
  Gap[3]=pk[k+3]-3pk[k+2]+3pk[k+1]-pk[k];
  Gap[4]=pk[k+4]-4pk[k+3]+6pk[k+2]-4pk[k+1]+pk[k];
  If[Mod[k,1000]==0,Print[k]]]
Bob Hanlon
===
===
Subject: Re: Laplace Transformation vs. erf
It converges allright.  Sketch the function.  It is bounded.
Therefore its Laplace Transform converges.
I believe that you have just found a function whose Laplace Transform
Mathematica doesn't know.  These are not particularly rare.  After
all, given the task of evaluating the definite integral of an
arbitrary function, as smooth and well behaved as you wish, so that
the integral exists, why should you expect the result to come out as a
nice analytical formula in terms of a finite number of known
functions?  The Laplace Transform is just such an integral.  Many
times you are lucky and can evaluate the result analytically.  Often
you are unlucky and cannot.
Of course you can find the Laplace Transform numerically for as many
values of s as you want.  Use NIntegrate.
Bob
===
Subject: Re:  Plotting a function of an interpolated function
I'll take the last problem first -- the Plot:
Plot[W[\\[Phi]], {t, 0, 100/m}]
It can't be evaluated until Phi is computed, but regardless of what Phi \
turns out to be, the plot is determined anyway:
Clear[m, mp, G, P, \\[Rho], \\[Phi], W,
   Inflaton]
V = Function[x, (1/2)*m^2*x^2];
\\[Rho] = Function[x, D[x, t]^2/2 + V[x]];
H = Function[x, Sqrt[((8*Pi*G)/3)*
       \\[Rho][x]]];
P = Function[x, D[x, t]^2/2 - V[x]];
Inflaton = Derivative[2][\\[Phi]][t] +
     3*H[\\[Phi][t]]*Derivative[1][\\[Phi]][t] +
     Derivative[1][V][\\[Phi][t]];
W = Function[x, P[x]/\\[Rho][x]];
W[\\[Phi]]
-1
W is constant, so the Plot should show -1 across the board (if it works at \
all).
Now for the problem with Phi. Your definition of Phi isn't the best, but if \
you must use it, the Plot needs Evaluate:
m = 10^16;
mp = 1.2211*10^19;
G = mp^(-2);
Clear[\\[Phi]]
\\[Phi] = \\[Phi][t] /. First[NDSolve[
      {Inflaton == 0, Derivative[1][\\[Phi]][
         0] == 0, \\[Phi][0] == 1}, \\[Phi][t],
Plot[Evaluate[W[\\[Phi]]], {t, 0, 100/m}]
But I don't see the expected constant -1. Instead, I see a Sin wave, I think \
due to noise.
(W simplified to -1 when its argument was a symbol, but when the argument is \
numeric, the fraction P[x]/rho[x] appears to be vulnerable to numerical \
problems.)
Define Phi this way, and I get a much more reasonable result:
Clear[\\[Phi]]
\\[Phi] = \\[Phi] /. First[NDSolve[
      {Inflaton == 0, Derivative[1][\\[Phi]][
         0] == 0, \\[Phi][0] == 1}, \\[Phi],
Plot[W[\\[Phi][t]], {t, 0, 100/m}]
The curve wavers, but it's -1 to machine precision, as expected.
Bobby
-- 
DrBob@bigfoot.com
www.eclecticdreams.net
===
Subject: Re: simply problem (not for me) about axes scale
Use the option AspectRatio. For example,
--
To reply via email subtract one hundred and four
===
Subject: Re: NIntegrate a list
Did you mean to write
Integrate[x*Sin[x]*{1, 2}, {x, -Pi, Pi}] instead of what you did write?
There is also a second issue in that NIntegrate does not have the attribute \
Listable. But this can be addressed using Map, i.e.
NIntegrate[#1, {x, -Pi, Pi}]&/@ (x Sin[x] {1, 2})
{6.283185307179588, 12.566370614359176}
--
To reply via email subtract one hundred and four
===
Subject: Re: Mathematica slows down
I don't know why you are seeing the slow down you report, but I do know this \
computation can be speeded up enormously
First, changing your code slightly so as to retain each of the computed gaps \
and reducing NumP to make the overall execution time of your code smaller
NumP = 5000; 
gaps = {}; 
Timing[
  For[k = 1, k < NumP, k++, 
   gaps =
     Append[
       gaps, 
       {Prime[k+1]-Prime[k], 
        Prime[k+2]-2*Prime[k+1]+Prime[k], 
        Prime[k+3]-3*Prime[k+2]+3*Prime[k+1]-Prime[k],
        Prime[k+4]-4*Prime[k+3]+6*Prime[k+2]-4*Prime[k+1]+Prime[k]}]]; ]
{1.2999999999999972*Second, Null}
Now for a different way to do the same computation
Timing[newGaps = 
   Take[#1, NumP-1]&/@Rest[
     NestList[
       ListConvolve[{1, -1},#1]&,Prime/@Range[NumP+3],4]]; ]
{0.020000000000003126*Second, Null}
And finally,
Transpose[newGaps] == gaps
True
Showing both methods do the same thing.
The improved computation speed results from not computing Prime[k] more than \
needed and replacing the For loop with Mathematica's functional programming \
constructs.
--
To reply via email subtract one hundred and four
===
Subject: File association in 5.01
Folks,
I've recently upgraded to v. 5.01 from v. 5 and now my saved notebooks 
(xxx.nb) are no longer recognized by Mathematica. I've tried the standard 
file association steps to no avail (I'm using Windows XP, home edition)
Has anyone had a similar experience and, more importantly, can anyone figure \

out what dumb mistake I'm making here?
Much obliged,
John 
===
Subject: How make a package
  I dont know make a package (file.m). When I make a package by writing on 
notebooks, when I save it, I always see ( file.nb)
        If you know please point it out for me
===
Subject: infinite sum problem
the following sum converges only for x<1,
but Mathematica gives a result for general x
when the sum is evaluated symbolically.
In[1]:=
Sum[(-1)^k*x^(2k),{k,0,Infinity}]
Out[1]=
\\!\\(1\\/\\(1 + x\\^2\\)\\)
In[2]:=
Sum[(-1)^k*x^(2k),{k,0,Infinity}]/.x\\[Rule]2
Out[2]=
\\!\\(1\\/5\\)
that's wrong!
In[3]:=
Sum[(-1)^k*2^(2k),{k,0,Infinity}]
correctly gives error: Sum does not converge.
Am I overlooking something?
thanx,
marc
===
Subject: Re:  gridlines styles.
For info use:  ?GridLines
Needs[\Graphics`\];
 Plot[Sin[x], {x, 0, 2Pi}, 
      {PiScale,Automatic,None, Automatic},
      {{First[#],
              {Red, AbsoluteDashing[{5,5}]}}&/@
          PiScale[0, 2Pi], 
        Table[{y, 
            {Blue, AbsoluteDashing[{5,5,2,5}]}},
          {y,-1,1,.5}]},
Bob Hanlon
===
===
Subject: 3D plotting problem
I find myself unable to make a 3D plot of the atomic
2p orbital
f_z(2p,x,y,z;a)=z*Exp[-a*Sqrt[x^2+y^2+z^2]].
As far as I can understand, 'ContourPlot3D' is the
only option, but it gives either an empty plot box or
a flat sheet.
Can anyone suggest a way out?
Henning Heiberg-Andersen
  
===
Subject: Re: 3D plotting problem
Paul Abbott, and Jim Williams, available in Notebook form (with and 
without graphics) at
  http://physics.uwa.edu.au/pub/Orbitals
relevant.
 
Paul
-- 
Paul Abbott                                   Phone: +61 8 6488 2734
School of Physics, M013                         Fax: +61 8 6488 1014
The University of Western Australia      (CRICOS Provider No 00126G)         \

35 Stirling Highway
Crawley WA 6009                      mailto:paul@physics.uwa.edu.au 
AUSTRALIA                            http://physics.uwa.edu.au/~paul
===
Subject: Re:  Re: 3D plotting problem
Documentation is unclear on what ContourPlot3D actually does--until you get \
to the example.
You also get an empty box if you replace Cos[...] with 1-Cos[...], simply \
because 1-Cos[...] is never zero in the range. But this gives a surface:
ContourPlot3D[3 - Cosh[Sqrt[
   x^2 + y^2 + z^2]], {x, -2, 2}, {y, 0, 2}, {z, -2, 2}]
and so does this:
ContourPlot3D[1.01 - Cosh[Sqrt[x^2 + y^2 +
      z^2]], {x, -2, 2}, {y, 0, 2}, {z, -2, 2}]
That's a weird one.
Bobby
-- 
DrBob@bigfoot.com
www.eclecticdreams.net
===
Subject: Re: 3D plotting problem
a) learn the correct syntax, i.e,
fz[a_][\2p\,x_,y_,z_]=z*Exp[-a*Sqrt[x^2+y^2+z^2]]
b) set the Contours option in ContourPlot3D[] to an non zero value
  Jens
===
Subject: Re: 3D plotting problem
This is the sort of thing you want to do:
<<Graphics`ContourPlot3D`
fz[x_,y_,z_,a_]:=z*Exp[-a*Sqrt[x^2+y^2+z^2]]
ContourPlot3D[Abs[fz[x,y,z,1]]-0.3,{x,-1.5,1.5},{y,-1.5,1.5},{z,-3,3},
Comments:
    1. Your notation for the 2p orbital function (the left hand side of your \

definition) could not possibly have worked in Mathematica so I have 
rewritten it.
    2. The surface in ContourPlot3D is defined as Abs[fz[x,y,z,1]]-0.3 == 0. \

I have used Abs so you get both of the lobes of the 2p orbital in the same 
plot.
plot. If the resolution is set too low then the plot might not appear at 
all!
    4. Play around with the various parameters to get whatever plot you 
actually want.
Steve Luttrell
===
Subject: Re:  Re: More on Delete Problems
Just one more thing. Since this has been fixed in Mathematica 5.01 
(together with other similar PackedArray related problems discussed 
earlier on this list) it is unlikely that WRI will acknowledge 
anything, since this is now an \obsolete\ bug that has been fixed.
Andrzej
===
Subject: Re:  Re: More on Delete Problems
No, I have good reason to believe that the problem is relate to Packed 
Arrays. I also have reaosn to beleive that your suggestion is just a 
red herring.
Theorem 1.
Packed arrays are relevant here.
a = {{1., 2., 3.}, {4., 5., 6.}};
b = {{1, 0, 1}, {0, -2, 3}, {0, 1, 0}};
c = a.b
Developer`PackedArrayQ[c]
True
Now if we unpack the packed array and use delete we do not get a crash, 
if we do not we get a crash every time.
Now, if you understand what packed arrays do you will see how this may 
well be related to the crash. Of course this is not a strict 
mathemaitcal  proof but it far more convincing than your suggestion, as 
I will prove next.
Theorem 2
Your suggestion is a \red herring\, and has nothing to do with this 
problem.
Proof.
a={{1.,2.,3.},{4.,5.,6.}};
b={{1,0,1},{0,-2,3},{0,1,0}};
c=a.b;
<<Algebra`AlgebraicInequalities`
Delete[c,{1,1}]
At this point I get a kernel crash every time!
$Version
In[1]:=
$Version
Out[1]=
If my conclusion was \premature' what would you call yours?
Andrzej Kozlowski
Chiba, Japan
http://www.akikoz.net/~andrzej/
http://www.mimuw.edu.pl/~akoz/
===
Subject: Question About HP49G ROM 1.24
Was wondering if anyone has had a problem using Steen Schmidt's
excellent Inform Builder v1.7 with ROM 1.24 for the 49G.  For some
reason I am unable to compile an inform with this ROM version. 
However, I went back to ROM 1.19-6 and everything worked fine.  Any
ideas?
===
Subject: Re: Question About HP49G ROM 1.24
Hi Gary,
I cannot help you with this but thank you for the \Subject\. I
searched the last years from time to time for a new ROM for the
HP49G(nonplus) and now I found it.
Why is the community hiding it so well? hpcalc.org could release it in
is distributed as source code? It works really well with my HP49G :-)
And I do not understand HP. But this is another story...
Bye Matthias
-- 
mbunte@gmx.net
===
Subject: Re: Question About HP49G ROM 1.24
I haven't tried IFB under v1.24 - in fact, I haven't even tried v1.24.
I use v1.19.7 on my HP49G, and IFB works there. I don't know what have
changed to v1.24? If it's simple, I may change it, but I don't want to
spend much time on it...
Steen
===
Subject: Re: Question About HP49G ROM 1.24
VPN & Steen,
No, I wouldn't spend a lot of time on this either.
All that I can tell you is IFB works great with 49G v1.19-6 and 49G+ v1.23.
A compiled inform also works with 49G v1.24 -- you just can't use IFB to
compile with this ROM.
So, here's what I have learned to do...
I use EMU48 at v1.19-6 to create and compile informs using IFB.
Once compiled, I transfer them to the real calculators using Conn4x.
Gary
===
Subject: Re: Question About HP49G ROM 1.24
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
I'm pretty sure that Steen will NOT patch his program
Stick to the old version of the ROM
[VPN]
===
Subject: Accidentally Changed Settings
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
 I'm looking for some help for a friend who accidentally changed his 
settings on his HP printer.  The language has gone from English to Russian. \

It's no longer a case of just changing back, since he doesn't read Russian 
and can't follow the instructions.
  Does anyone have any suggestions?
Lynn 
===
Subject: Re: Accidentally Changed Settings
What type of HP printer is it?  If it is not one used with HP
caluclators, I would recommend you post in a more relevant user group
(comp.??.printers??).
Tom
===
Subject: Impressions of my 49G+
I have had mine for about a week now.  Earlier I had posted that I was \
leary
of buying it because I thought it would be nothing but trouble.  I have
been pleasantly surprised however.
It is so much faster that I find user rpl to be as fast on the 49G+ as
sysrpl was on the 49G in many cases.  This makes programming it so nice as
I can do stuff more quickly when necessary and don't have to worry about
crashing it.  As an example, I spent weeks writing a safe set of
astronomical tools to use in the field when viewing with my telescope.  I
wanted to make it easy to use but fast enough to be useful and safe enough
to keep me from worrying about crashing because I did something incorrect
in the dark.  I sat down yesterday on my lunch and a while last night and
recreated most of the stuff plus some very cool new stuff in user rpl that
is fast.  Very cool.
Concerning assembly quality, keyboard etc:
The overall fit and finish of my machine is quite nice.  It is very light
which bugs me a little bit but I am getting used to it.  I experience
missed keys very seldom (perhaps 1/100 presses) but I find it is related
more to how I am pressing them.  If I press from the top edge down and in a
bit, they never miss.  At least this is my impression.  But overall I have
no real problems with it.  My serial is CN40215588.
USB connectivity was very easy using Win98SE via Vmware.  It is fast and
easy and now all I need to do is get it working in native linux.  I am
running kernel 2.6.8.1 and can't seem to find safe_serial mod as needed. 
Anyone who wants to offer me assistance, please feel free.
Debug4x is *very* nice.  I only wish there was a native Linux version.  It
doesn't seem to like being run in Vmware for more than a little while
without having to be restarted.  Funny things start happening with fonts,
etc.  Not sure why yet.  Anyway, it was very easy to get a library compiled
and loaded in no time and the 49G+ ran it perfectly.
I bought a Sandisk 128M SD card.  Inserted it an turned on the calc to find
it instantly noticed and useable.  Not a single issue whatsoever.  Very
nice!
My gripes are few but here they are.
1.  I was concerned about the alarms and time capabilities after \
readingsome
posts here.  I find that mine is keeping time quite nicely and the alarms
are not corrupted.  But I have had three occasions where my alarms would go
off at the wrong time.  I have two repeating alarms right now both for
afternoon.  Twice I was typing something into the calc at about 9:30 in the
morning when all of the sudden one alarm would execute, I would cancel it,
and the second would execute.  And it *only* happened when I was entering
data into the calc.  They still execute at the correct time as well.  I
wonder if anyone else experienced this?  It is likely a software issue but
I am slightly concerned about a hardware issue that is causing spurious
interrupts.  I was amazed to find that the 49G+ has no crystal!  How inthe
world can you have a dependable clock without a crystal?  I guess I am old
school but that seems like asking for trouble to me.  At any rate, my time
is pretty accurate and my complaints are only the alarm thing. I can
tolerate it as long as the alarms actually go off when they are supposed to
as well.
I sure wish this thing had standard serial IO.  I would love to be able to
connect it to my LX200 in the field like I could with my 49 and 48.  Also,
Linux connectivity would be a no brainer.
I wish the header lines were easily cleared.  I was surprised to see that
they are persistent.  They even stay visible during a warmstart!  I need to
dig into it a bit to find to how to manipulate them.  I know there must be
a way.
Well, that is all for now.  Suffice it to say I like my 49G+ a great deal. 
I actually have gotten back my old long lost interest in programming it.  I
have four programming projects going right now so I am very busy with it!
All is *not* lost in my opinion.  Good job HP and Kinpo!
-- 
~/.signature
===
Subject: Re: Impressions of my 49G+
Consider yourself *extremely* lucky. All 3 of mine missed anywhere
from 1/10 to 1/4, making the machine unusable.
When a significant number of users report that their machines are
unusable due to defective keyboards, and HP does not *immediately*
pounce on the problem and cure it, you have a problem. It is a problem
that no longer affects me, my TI89 serves me quite well, and I'm done
with HP calculators.
===
Subject: Re: Impressions of my 49G+
I think I am going to get a TI-89 Titanium too, that also looks better 
for educational purposes ...
===
Subject: Re: Impressions of my 49G+
Well, I work in a production support environment.  I can understand how the
problem has not been solved completely yet.  There is no way to duplicate
the problem in a way that can be tested for efficiently.  It will
eventually be fixed you can rest assured.  What I cannot understand is why
the 49G+ was released when it was.  It could NOT have undergone any sort of
extensive characterization and qualification process otherwise the keyboard
and alarm issue would have been found early on and fixed before production
release.  But I disagree that the HP is an overall crappy product.  It has
a couple of problems yes, but all in all it is very fast, very powerful,
and very reasonably priced.  The TI89 is also a good machine but not in the
same world as the HP49G+.  Each serves a different user base.  I use my HP
as an engineer and I make calculations and do tasks which directly support
my job.  I have no problem with this.
-- 
~/.signature
===
Subject: Re: Impressions of my 49G+
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
X
X
In china (hot & moister) it perhaps works all the time
They should have tested it also in USA: Alaska & Death Valley
8-P
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: Impressions of my 49G+
Interesting. I am a process engineer (quality control) for a large
electronics manufacturer. My company is dedicated to quality in the
extreme. My team has the power to literally stop production of
anything, pull people from any department, assemble a new team to
solve the problem, if it is possible. It's a spinoff of the Japanese
style instituted by Deming that took \Made In Japan\ from a joke to
something people wanted to buy. It is doubtful that HP could ever
apply this method successfully as Queen Fiorina, the bean counters and
the artsy crowd are in control of HP now.
Ultimately, what does this lack of quality mean to HP? Loss of
business. My boss is replacing test equipment, and the main bid
contract (close to $500,000) did not go to HP/Agilent. When we
discussed the issue, I used the 49+ as a small example of HP could not
deliver hardware as promised.
===
Subject: Re: Impressions of my 49G+
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
Try as I might, I find it difficult to see evidence from Agilent or HP's 
website to show that the two companies are still linked at all -- just how 
much of a relationship do they have with each other nowadays?  (chuckles) 
Maybe they should have spun off ACO with the test-equipment division when 
Agilent was formed... 
===
Subject: Re: Impressions of my 49G+
They are no link left whatsoever...
Jean-Yves
===
Subject: Re: Impressions of my 49G+
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
Excatly why AGilent calculators may have still worked well
with all those test equipments to test the calculatrice
and MALE engineers at leadership...
[VPN]
BTW: good job so far Gherkin
===
Subject: Re: Impressions of my 49G+
Hey! that's a great idea!
I think I would try out with an Agilent calculator.
Measurement and Computation seem to go hand in hand.
( Where have I heard that before ? )
===
Subject: Re: Impressions of my 49G+
Hello Al:
I was interested to find out that you use your HP49G+ with your 
telescope. Several weeks ago I posted a message here asking people if 
they knew of any programs to help in building telescopes. I would like 
to ask you what kind of astronomy tools you are talking about and how 
you use them with your calculator. My idea is to build a program with 
several menu items corresponding to different telescope designs. Once 
you select the kind of telescope you want to work on, you enter the 
relevant parameters for that telescope type (such as mirror diameter, 
f/ratio for a newtonian) and the program will give you all the relevant 
info for that scope. I already found a site with a plethora of ATM 
formulas (http://www.atmsite.org/contrib/Tasso/formulae/), I am just 
trying to learn how to program these things into the calculator and try 
to turn it into a useful program.
Alejandro
===
Subject: Re: Impressions of my 49G+
I use my HP48GX to control my Meade LX200 SCT via the serial IO.  I can
write a list of items I wish to view and log and set the calc to auto-goto
as I need.  Better than a laptop in my opinion as the laptop is bulkier and
susceptible to natures rigors.  The calc is much more rugged.
Clear Skies!
-- 
~/.signature
===
Subject: HP48 and telescopes (was Re: Impressions of my 49G+)
Hi !
I have written a planetarium for HP49, HP48GX (plus a light version for 
HP48G). In this program, the telescope goto feature is implemented, but 
as I have no goto-telescope, I cannot test this feature. Can you try my 
program please ?
HPlanetarium is a free (GPL) planetarium for HP48GX and HP49G(+). You 
can move the displayed sky \in real time\ like with any planetarium for 
computers. You can point a Meade or compatible telescope. There is also 
an ephemeris generator with equatorial and azimutal coordinates, 
elongation, magnitude and apparent diameter for principal planets. 
Source code for HP49 is provided.
The project page of HPlanetarium (in french) is there :
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/kdntl/hp49/hpl/
This page translated in english is available in the zip file.
You can also download HPLanetarium from hpcalc.org :
http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4897
Khanh-Dang
===
Subject: Re: Impressions of my 49G+
Yes, I have had the same problems with alarms.  I don't know any actual 
information about the problem, but my solution (my alarm was set to 
if the backup was present, and if not, to back it up.  I assigned this 
(with a takeover and off command at the beginning) to the OFF key, as 
well as storing it in STARTOFF, so that it would be executed when i 
turned the calculator on.
enough to suffice (it loses probably about a second a day or two).
Look at Headman, by Wolfgang Rautenberg
http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=5940
===
Subject: Does anyone know, Whom Do I send to?
Can anyone say, please;
Where do I send requests and suggestion material
to ask for improvments to these Hewlett/Packard calculators?
Surely someone there is open enough to receive suggestions ?
1. My 33s won't function in complex.
2. The  4-way-key  won't allow any equation editing (left/right)
   or scrolling the input history (up/down).
I think this should be done.
===
Subject: Re: Does anyone know, Whom Do I send to?
1. Complex is not a mode. The available complex operations are prefixed 
with \CMPLX\ (e.g., CMPLX +). Please read the manual on how complex 
numbers are used and operated upon.
2. This is, indeed, an unfortunate omission.
Martin Cohen
===
Subject: Re: Does anyone know, Whom Do I send to?
 O.K. -got all that.
 
 A. No one upstairs will hear me ? 
 1. This \j\ will require more investigation to work-around.
 2. My kid doesn't want to use \it\, and prefers a cheap Casio.
 Will there be another model Scientific, do you think?
 There is a whacking large memory in the thing, isn't it ?
===
Subject: Re: Does anyone know, Whom Do I send to?
But missing complex support in lot of math funktion
ie. asin, acos, atan and all hyperbolic trigometry etc.
and hard and tricky to work with it IMHO.
(compared to my old hp42s). I not impressive of hp33s
capability in complex number domain.
Buy used hp42s if you want good complex numbers
capable small calculator. this calculate complex
numbers same easy way as real number without setting
in special mode or simular and give complex answer from real
numbers if operation shall give complex answer like atanh(2), SQR(-1)
etc. (try this on hp33s...). Very nice calculator, and uniq in
calculator world.
/TE
===
Subject: Re: Does anyone know, Whom Do I send to?
following : 
 I like the feeling I receive when all logical possabilities
 are addressed by my tools.
===
Subject: Re: Does anyone know, Whom Do I send to?
following : 
 I guess I want it all. Yes, I can have a pre-owned 42
 for a large price, but I loose the extended memory found in 
 the 33s.  -as if I could actually use so much memory :)
 What will the call the next Science Calculator model ? 
 43 ?
 34 ?
 Is there a suggestion channel for reactions like mine ?
===
Subject: Help PTRs
The nexts PTRs they are of the HP48GX, which are the equivalent for the \
HP49G ?
Helpme Please.  
(HP48GX)                (HP49G)
PTR 06B3E       =       ?????
PTR 06DDE       =       ?????
PTR 1622A       =       ?????
PTR 1685C       =       ?????
PTR 39E78       =       ?????
PTR 39EB9       =       ?????
PTR 39DE2       =       ?????
PTR 39F04       =       ?????
Alberto V.
===
Subject: Re: Help PTRs
These are all unsupported entry points, and are therefore unavailable
in the 49G/g+ in which unsupported entry points are almost guaranteed
to be in different addresses in each ROM version (unlike the 48 series
in which many entry points were unsupported but were always at stable
addresses in each ROM version).
However, 1685C (in the 48GX) is \stackit\, which is similar to the
supported \stackitw\ SysRPL command in the 49G/g+.
Also, the final one above is \Add$1:_\ which is simply the following
code:
::
$ \1: \
!insert$
;
Sorry about the others.  They cannot reliably be called by address in
the 49G/g+.  You'll have to rewrite them.
-Joe-
===
Subject: Re: Help PTRs
Already that I must rewrite these codes, but not that they do each one of \
them.
Alberto V.
===
Subject: IfE?P question of Keyman+
After several weeks of test. I still have problem with Keyman+. Some
keys assigned with IfD or IfL won't work under editing or programming
mode. I seems that I should also assign the keys with IfE?P.
Until now, I cannot successful to assign IfE?P or assign IfD+IfL+IfE?P
for a specified key. Does anyone could offer instructions of using
IfE?P.
TED
===
Subject: Re: IfE?P question of Keyman+
        charset=\Windows-1252\
Hi Teddy,
the magic trick is \take over\, available with
Read carefully the documentation.
Heiko
===
Subject: Re: IfE?P question of Keyman+
Hi Heiko,
My steps were:
51.3
61.1
IfE?P
A?D
EEX
Was it right?
===
Subject: Re: IfE?P question of Keyman+
        charset=\Windows-1252\
Hi Teddy,
...
It would be helpfull, to give us another example. 
What is your intention? What do you expect to be
done by the key?
Remarks:
1. There is difference, pressing IfE?P short or long.
I assume you mean a short pressed IfE?P.
2. In this case your EEX-key (usr-mode) would
execute LN in edit-mode. This does not make
much sence?
3. changing 51.3 and 61.1 in your procedure (s.a.)
makes some more sence, but you would lose
the faster way for typing e.g. 1 Million, by typing
simply EEX 6 (which gives 1E06).
I assume, IfE?P (short pressed) is only to be used
for assignments, were different behaviour
is required for edit-mode and for standard-mode.
Take a look to Wolfgangs examples.
Remember:
Some keys do not have any function in standard-mode:
e.g. BEGIN, END, COPY....!
To avoid, loosing theire meanings in edit-mode,
you may use IfE?P.
available while beeing in edit-mode. You, know,
sometimes a key should *not be available in 
edit-mode.
_________
Example for a combination of IfD, IfE?P, IfL
Expected behaviour:
a) The long pressed EEX-key should turn of the calculator off,
in normal and in edit mode as well. I am using this assignment,
because EEX remembers me to somthing like exit or exitus :-)
b) The short pressed EEX-key should do EEX
c) The double click should behave different in
edit-mode and in standard-mode
    - in edit-mode it should excecute EEX (61.1)
    - in standard mode it should excecute LN (51.3)
required sequence:
write a little usrRPN programm
<<  
61.1 51.3 IfE?P 
61.1 IfD 
IfL
store it (for further modifications).
Excecute the little prog and
do
A?D short pressed and finaly choose
EEX
Remarks:
I do not like to assign double-click, because the
calc would interprete EEX 6 fastly pressed
as EEX-double-click :-(
In the little prog, you find IfD first (before IfL).
I was not successfull with using IfL first.
Double-click makes sence, when you are sure, that no
other keys would follow immedeately.
Making really good assignments is not that easy.
Wolgang invented a lot of those good ones.
I would appreachiate to get a nice example from you :-)
Heiko
PS: Sorry for my late answer, I was \out of office\.
===
Subject: Re: IfE?P question of Keyman+
Hi Heiko,
result as yours. So I spent a lot of time to study how Keyman+
instructions work since last night.
My original problem is that each time I assignd an object to EEX
key(IfL, IfD), the EEX key wouldn't worked as it should be. Finally I
found that I have to assign EEX key to edit and program mode also.
But I cannot let a key combined with IfE?P ,IfD and IfL worked fine.
Your program really help me to understand how to use these
instructions.
The assignment of LN is just a example. My original purpose
is to assign the EEX as below:
Normal: EEX
IfL:    standard number display format
IfD:    engineering number display format
<<
Ted
===
Subject: Re: IfE?P question of Keyman+
        charset=\Windows-1252\
Hi Teddy,
===
Subject: Re: IfE?P question of Keyman+
Here is the important point, which I do not understand.
What do you expect if the EEX-key is pressed in 
edit-mode,
what do you expect in 
program-mode.
Let us assume the stripped program
<<
Execute and apply this to the EEX-key!
This would change the mode
to 6 ENG if double clicked and
to STD if longhold is applied to EEX.
And it would work in Edit-Mode and
Program-Mode as well.
But, I assume you expect something different?
Sometimes it is more difficult to write down
expectations, than writing a program:-)
May be you would like in program-mode,
that  6 ENG will be written into your program when
double-clicked the EEX-key?
Nevertheless, I do not like the double-click-key,
because it is misleading.
Try the assumed key-assignment (above)
and type EEX and another key, pressed both
keys in a short period of time. You will experience
that these two keypresses will be interpreted
as a double-click!
My suggestion is, to write a program which 
toggles \6 ENG\ and \STD\-mode, for 
longhold EEX.
Do you feel challenged?
Let us know your experience.
Heiko
===
Subject: Re: IfE?P question of Keyman+
Hello Heiko,
Since I assigned EEX key to IfD and IfL for EEX and STD mode. If I
didn't specify EEX key function in IfE?P, the keys seems not worked as
an EEX function in edit or program mode. This is the original problem
that I suffered.
As my test, the program as below:
edit or program mode:
I never need to switch ENG and STD mode when I work in edit mode. But
I need EEX key that works in edit mode. This program is the only way I
can use.
Yes, I've abandon to use the program above. Since it come with a
considerable delay when short press. It bothered me. So I change the
assignment to below:
Long press:
Heiko, I had ever tried to assign long press \1/X\ key to \Y\. But I
always could not get an \Y\ with long press it in edit mode. Could you
do it?
TED
===
Subject: Re: IfE?P question of Keyman+
        charset=\Windows-1252\
Have you tried:
<<
This will give you EEX in edit-mode and in programm mode.
Heiko
===
Subject: Re: IfE?P question of Keyman+
Hello Heiko,
This program works fine. I think my previous fault is 
IfL and IfD seems could not be used in edit mode, is it?
I always cannot get them work in edit and program mode.
TED
===
Subject: Re: IfE?P question of Keyman+
        charset=\Windows-1252\
That is probably the case.
normal, edit- and in program-mode as well.
Important:
IfE?P is only used, if you want to have a 
*diffent behaviour in edit-mode (program-) compared
to the \normal\ mode.
Hi Ted,
the above written key-assignment works in edit-mode
and in program-mode!
IfE?P is only used, in case you want to have
a different behaviour for the key, while beeing in
edit (prog) mode compared to normal mode.
Have closer look to Wolfgangs
examples or the RS-keys (Begin, End, Cut, Copy...)
Those key do not have any sence in normal-mode,
so they could be used in normal-mode, while
keeping their meanings in edit(program)-mode.
Try this with the above key-assignment.
Put 1.23456789 in the stack.
Change to edit-mode (just type 1 or what ever..)
Press 61.1 double and the calc will change to
6 ENG
Than press 61.1 long hold and the calc will
change to Standard-Mode. You might not 
see that while editing...
You will see the result, when you leave the
edtit-mode or the program-mode.
Again, what are your precise expectations in
edit- or program-mode?
Heiko
===
Subject: Re: IfE?P question of Keyman+
Hi Heiko,
yours in prior test.
My attempt was to assign IfL \1/X\ key to \Y\ characteristic. I tested
the result in EQW mode, and found that it could only work in normal
mode.
I just test the function again. I found it could work in Both normal
and edit mode. Also in program mode. But in EWQ mode. So I confused
the meaning of edit mode before.
Ted
===
Subject: Re: IfE?P question of Keyman+
        charset=\Windows-1252\
Hi Ted,
I confirm, that key-assignment form keyman do not work
in EQW-modus.
I don't know, if the \normal\ key-assignments will
work in EQW-mode and I even don't know how to 
make key-assignments without keyman :-)
Heiko
===
Subject: Re: IfE?P question of Keyman+
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
There are different Environments (or applications) in the calculator.
The keyboard assignments only work in \Normal\ Environment.
You have also the CUSTOM menu available in EQW
An example of it can be found here:
http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4360
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: IfE?P question of Keyman+
Heiko,
I forgot to say that my target is as below:
Normal:
Edit or Program mode:
But I cannot use long press in edit or program mode.
my program is 
If I assigned \Y\ with IfE?P, I could not use 1/X in edit mode.
Ted
===
Subject: Re: IfE?P question of Keyman+
        charset=\Windows-1252\
Hi Ted,
try this
Heiko
===
Subject: Re: IfE?P question of Keyman+
Which version are you using?
-Joe-
===
Subject: Re: IfE?P question of Keyman+
Mine is ver 5.0024
Ted
===
Subject: Re: IfE?P question of Keyman+
Did you add the \Takeover\ in front of the main program?
-- 
Beto
Reply: Erase between the dot (inclusive) and the @.
Responder: Borra la frase obvia y el punto previo.
===
Subject: error using hptools
For the life of me I can't figure out why I am getting an error using
hptools.  I have the following files:
nullnames.s - source file with nullnamed romps in it
exalcfg.s - config source code
exalext.h - EXETRNAL declarations
exalromid.h - ROMID declaration
The exalext.h file contains several of the following:
EXTERNAL rompname1
EXTERNAL rompname2
...
etc
At the top of each source file I have the following:
INCLUDE exalromid.h
INCLUDE exalext.h
Yet after compiling the .s files and running sasm on the .a files, I always
get an error at the line where the INCLUDE exalext.h occurs.  The actual
error is:
11             exalromid EQU #4C4
12             *|| Resuming file exal.s at line 3
*** ERROR: Illegal mnemonic ***
13 00000       INCLUDE exalext.h
14             *|| Reading from exalext.h
15             *|| Resuming file exal.s at line 4
I know this is something easy but what is it?
-- 
~/.signature
===
Subject: Re: error using hptools
It seems that in exalromid.h you are switching to ASSEMBLE mode and 
forgot to return to RPL mode.
exalromid.h should contain something like:
ASSEMBLE
exalromid       EQU     #4C4
RPL
While you're at it, make sure that it also contains a line with:
xROMID 4C4
otherwise rplcomp will not generate the proper header for makerom to 
work (with xROMID it will generate .ext files).
Jean-Yves
===
Subject: Re: error using hptools
snip
Doh!  It appears that MAKEROM.DOC left this tidbit out and I failed to
recognize I was in assembler mode.  This fixed it!
-Al
-- 
~/.signature
===
Subject: Re: error using hptools
Glad it helped.
Check you yahoo email account...
Jean-Yves
===
Subject: Functions and lists (49g+)?
Letr V = {1 2 3 4}
If P(V) = (V-1)/4  EVAL produces \invallid user function.
If P = (V-1)/4   EVAL produces \circular reference\
If (V-1)/4 'P' STO then  P EVAL  works fine:  {0 1/4 1/2 3/4 1).
So  functions, equations, and lists  are incompatible?
===
Subject: Re: Functions and lists (49g+)?
Hello Surely 
 
First of all RELAX! Take a deep breath...
The following is:
So, if you place on the stack the list V with contents {1 2 ..} and
then you execute via the soft key 'P' the respective program
you will get the list you got eventually without having used
an equation with global variable as you ended up with but rather
with a user function and local parameter as I showed you and as you
initially wanted.
!Demeter!
===
Subject: Re: Functions and lists (49g+)?
While P(V)=(V-1)/4 is evidently not an HP48/49 function, it is a
frequently encountered function prototype. 
For example in mathematica :
p[v_] := (v - 1)/4; (* defines the function *)
v := {1, 2, 3, 4};     (* input data *)
p[v]
{0, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4}
Where p[v] produces a list of results.   It seemed strange that the HP
didn't handle an ordinary function prototype  such as 
                           f(x)=something in x
where function values are not returned.  Any input to the function
such as a list of input data doesn't then produce a list of output
data.   
Not to put too fine a point on it, but your approach isn't really an
HP 48/49 function, either.  It's a program using RPN , (no heavy
breathing necessary here, though!), no less!
Not being a TI user, I don't know if TI  would handle such a format.
This was just a curiosity, not a problem, since there are many
workarounds.
===
Subject: Re: Functions and lists (49g+)?
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
When you use the 'Y=' editor (part of the graphing subsystem) you can create \

function definitions that use exactly the notation you refer to (I call it 
'textbook' notation; so does HP.  TI would call it a derivative of 'pretty 
print')
If you examine objects created from the 'Y=' editor, you would see that they \

do, in fact, create user RPL programs to represent the function you defined. \

The way to think of it is, every 'function' in 'HP-land' is treated 
internally as an RPL program.  Not too much of a stretch to accept that, I 
think.
Ifyou don't want to go through the trouble of accessing the Y= editor, you 
can still write RPL programs that 'look' like functions as you describe:
You can use this program, just like the program Demeter showed, in either 
RPN or ALG mode:
P({1,2,3,4}) gives the correct answer in ALG mode whether you use the 
definition of 'P' given above, or using Demeter's version.
{1,2,3,4}
P
gives the correct answer in RPN mode whether you use the difinition of 'P' 
given above, or using Demeter's version.
In RPN mode, though you simply *cannnot* enter something like
P = (V-1)/4
and expect to get a valid response.  It does not follow any RPN \
conventions.
In ALG mode, you must realize that the equals operator is not used for 
assignment.  It is only used for comparison.  You have to use the 'sto' 
command to assign anything to any variable.
In either case, declaring functions is only ever achieved through writing 
RPL programs, whether you know about it (ie. writing it at the command line) \

or not (ie. writing it inside the 'Y=' editor...
Is it such a horrible thing that you have to use a different format to 
perform such tasks as 'declaring functions'?  Once you accept that *every* 
function is, at some level, going to be represented internally as an RPL 
function, you will notice considerable freedom in how simple or compicated 
you may choose to make your functions' algorithms.
Luke
===
Subject: Re: Functions and lists (49g+)?
equation writer would do the job (sort of an intuitive thought, which
like most I have, turned out not to be the case.)  Invoking the
graphing subsystem wasn't on my list of thoughts on how to get past
the problem in the rush of things, if you know what I mean.
I really didn't criticize the programming approach, either.  I knew
that could be done, but just for the sake of getting past the problem,
it didn't seem like a hot idea at the time, either.
I was able to use the equation writer to quickly make the function as
I've posted, and upon exit, saved to a variable of choice.  No problem
with RPN, etc.  Demeter's suggestion to use DEFN inspired me to look
into the catalog where DEFINE seems to be the magic verb.  It works
just like expected, and so off we go ...  It was just one of those out
of sight out of mind things that caused the slowdown of the goal here.
Regarding the last point in your response, it clearly is a program
that ultimately reports out responses to any calc's input.  There sure
is a  difference in efficiency, though, between the process of
entering a functions equation, versus entering the functions equations
and then needing to know that there are other DEFINE type requirements
to get it functional.  
===
Subject: Re: Functions and lists (49g+)?
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
Here is an excerpt from the HP48G Advanced Users Reference Manual (maybe it \

might help)
DEFINE:
Affected by Flags:
For arguments of the form 'name=exp', if flag -3 is set exp will be 
evaluated to a number before it is stored in name (if exp contains a formal \

variable DEFINE will error if flag -3 set).
Remarks: if the left side of the equation is name only, DEFINE stores exp in \

the variable name.
If the left side of the equation is name followed by parenthetical arguments \

name1, ...,namen, DEFINE creates a user-defined function and stores it in 
the variable name.
Examples:
'A='2*X' DEFINE stores '2*X' in variable A.
'A(X,Y)=2*X+3/Y' DEFINE creates a user-defined function A. The contents of A \

Daveh
===
Subject: Re: Functions and lists (49g+)?
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
X
There is both old command DEFINE and the new function DEF
In the keyboard you find DEF just above [ 2 ]
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: Functions and lists (49g+)?
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
X
Naturally one could program this capability using UserRPL
even if it wouldn't pre-exist
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: Functions and lists (49g+)?
   posting-account=gN0GeAwAAACDUmZms-nyTfoQ8BqkfexD
Hello Surely (again)
OK, Surely, now you did it!
:-)
If you read your manuals you will discover
that the DEFN command which IS the command for
user function definition is equivalent, once you
create the function to a program that takes
arguments as local variables.
DO your homework before going public ;-)
READ THE MANUALS!
!Demeter!
===
Subject: Re: Functions and lists (49g+)?
My friend,
\Relax, take a deep breath ...,\  !Demeter!
Following your sage advice, I scanned the hp49g+ user's manuals table
of contents ... nothing pertaining to DEFN there.  So looked where the
index should be ... What?  No index?  Oh well, there's always \those
other manuals ...\
Since a real help file embedded in the hp48/49 would be impractical
due to size, possibly it might be useful to have an embedded 'index'
as a pointer into WHICH manual one might find topical information.
(Perhaps driven by the 'F1' key, ala Windows.)
Even having read many manuals, doesn't give (me?) much assurance that
one could remember just WHERE one read that little something, perhaps
long ago.  
Drat. I didn't stumble on DEFN in the hp49g+ User's Manual, but now
since you've mentioned  it,  I checked the calc's 'CAT' and I see
where there is a DEF routine.  Cool, that ought to do the job. Out of
762 commands DEFN wasn't among the choices, though. Viva, RTFM!
have continued thinking less of the capabilities of this superb work
of Chinese art than otherwise due!
===
Subject: Re: Functions and lists (49g+)?
On the HP48 with 128K, yes, but the 49 series can spare 108K, which is
the size of my help file HLP49, which explains all the commands with
no help section in CAT (and precious little in the manuals).  It's at
www.hpcalc.org/hp49/apps/misc/hlp49v2.zip.
Although sometimes it's not much help unless you know what command to
look up...
HTH  (that's a snake with a lisp)
Bill
===
Subject: Re: Functions and lists (49g+)?
triggered via an error message and further based on the type of input
that caused the error, might be useful.  Like you said, if you aren't
aware the command exists,  its difficult to ask for help.
===
Subject: Re: HP49G+ ? Great Quality.... !!! Update: GOOD NEWS !!!!
Speed settings on the 49G+ has no effect when the USB port is selected
So no need to bother trying different speed, any values in IOPAR will be 
ignored
Jean-Yves
===
Subject: Re: HP49G+ ? Great Quality.... !!! Update: GOOD NEWS !!!!
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
 Jean-Yves,
will the Qonos use faster USB speed?
Like 1Mbit/s or even faster?
[VPN]
PS: when can I buy it. Can I become a beta-tester?
    Is there a gcc in the Qonos itself?
===
Subject: Re: HP49G+ ? Great Quality.... !!! Update: GOOD NEWS !!!!
It seems to me that Bill has been reading this newsgroup for quite
a long time, and he does respond when he has something relevant to
say.
Sometimes Cyrille posts too, when he has something to say. I
suppose that it may be that he avoids posting because we complain
so much.
Note that Michael Heinz has written HPConnect for transferring
files between the 49g+ and a Mac. Not being a Mac user, how well
it works, how it compares to Conn4x, and even whether it's
Kermit-based or Xmodem-based, I don't know. See:
http://hpconnect.sourceforge.net/ or
http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=6106
-- 
James
===
Subject: Price comparison between 48GX/49G+
I am in the market for purchasing a Graphing/Scientific Calculator.  I
love the 48GX, but the price is very high, no matter where I look. 
But it seems the 49G+ brand new is cheaper, than the older 48GX, and I
KNOW the 49 has much more power, but it doesn't appeal to me in looks.
 Why is the price so much more for the 48GX?  I don't want to spend
much more than $150, and I don't need mint condition, I just need
something that will last me through my Highschool and College years. 
And be able to play a few games in class ;-).
-justin
===
Subject: Re: Price comparison between 48GX/49G+
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
The 48GX is sought after by the surveyors using the card slots
They pay a lot for a working pocket computer with good keys
For a student the 49g+ offers much more in speed & power
[VPN]
PS: some collectors also ruin the market
    by paying hilarious prices for the 48GX
===
Subject: Re: Price comparison between 48GX/49G+
[Snip]
If you don't need the expansion slots of the 48GX then you could also 
try looking for an HP48G+ on eBay:- it is functionally the same as a 
48GX.
-- 
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey
England
===
Subject: Re: Price comparison between 48GX/49G+
Good working keys is the most important feature for a surveyor.  Then
comes speed.  Every other feature comes after.
Noel Causerano (Registered Surveyor)
GEOCALC SOFTWARE
Registered Reseller HP Invent
Cairns, QLD, Australia
Email: noel@geocalc.net
WEB: www.geocalc.net
===
Subject: Re: Price comparison between 48GX/49G+
49g+ is the one for you, don't hesitate, grab one!
===
Subject: Re: Price comparison between 48GX/49G+
Also consider the TI-89 Titanium, that doesn't have any keyboard problem 
AFAIK.
===
Subject: Re: Price comparison between 48GX/49G+
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
IMO the Titanic keyboard is mushy and the key locations are awful
there is no USER keyboard with such things as shift&hold, etc...
there is no tactile feedback, aonly positive thing is that the keys register \

ok
[VPN]
PS: The software sucks, too...
===
Subject: GROB Help!
I have a HP49G+ and am working with GROB's. I need to resize one of
the GROB form 512x384 to something that it around 131x64. Can anyone
suggest a way of doing this? I tried the built in command \LCD\ but it
likes to cut off the entire image that is not in the current view.
Jason
===
Subject: Re: GROB Help!
The easiest way is to create a blank GROB (512/4 x 384/4)
use BLANK command, and copy each 4th. pixel in to the blank grob.
there are numerous ways to do that.
like PIX? PIXON combination
(test eaxh 4th pixel)
SUB REPL
(break stripes of the image and put them tougether in a new grob)
-simple and slow (this is gonna be slow in user or sysRPL) but it will do
the job
-for faster result you may ewant to code it in (Saturn or ARM machine code)
-details smaller than 4x4 square will be filtered out (of course)
you may want to make more advanced filtering like: average the 4x4 squares
in to a pixel
and then experiment with a treshold value to decide wether to enable the
pixel or not.
i would expect the general value of 50% would give fair results for most
cases.
manjo
===
Please save this column on your computers and email accounts and also
forward this to all your friends, family, coworkers, democracy
websites, civil liberties websites and as many americans as possible
who are genuinely concerned about CIVIL LIBERTIES and FREEDOM in
America.
FBI is an ORGANIZATION of FUCKING CLOWNS, THUGS, CRIMINALS, RACISTS,
TRANSVESTITES, EUNUCHS, SADISTS, PERVERTS, DICTATORS and MENTALLY SICK
FUCKING TERRORISTS.
american programmed slaves play so the FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS can
THEIR PANTS and are AFRAID of FBI SHITHEADS ?
SPEAKING UP against a GOVT entity called FBI even for GENUINE REASONS,
then HOW CAN americans CLAIM they are living in a DEMOCRACY ?
(In a \REAL DEMOCRACY\, people and media SHOULD NOT be AFRAID of
SPEAKING UP against ANY GOVT ENITY for \GENUINE REASONS\)
a) PISSING off FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS is a CRIME which invites FBI
WRATH (just like iraqis invite Saddams armys wrath)
b) FBI SHITHEADS can HUMILIATE, DEHUMANIZE, TORTURE and TERRORIZE its
own american citizens, but americans are SUPPOSED to BEG FBI for MERCY
and WALK AWAY (just like iraqis walk away from Saddams torture)
c) FBI PERVERTS and SADISTS have IMMUNITY from american citizens so
the FBI DAUGHTERFUCKERS can TORTURE americans LEGALLY with impunity
(just like iraqis can be tortured by saddams army with impunity)
d) FBI PERVERTS and SADISTS can ABUSE americans calling them dumbfuck,
DAUGHTERFUCKERS' abuse. If americans ENGAGE in a VERBAL DUEL with the
FBI, then FBI will INCREASE the DEGREE OF TORTURE of the subject (What
a GREAT DEMCRACY ?)
(www.innocenceproject.com) to DEATH PENALTY (just like Saddam kills
innocent iraqis)
f) FBI PERVERTS and SADISTS can \DESTROY\ and \RUIN\ thousands and
DECADES with PLANTED and FALSIFIED EVIDENCE and by MANIPULATING juries
by LEAKING information to the media and using every other MANIPULATIVE
TRICK available to POISON the JURY MINDS to CONVICT INNOCENT
americans.
WRONGFUL CONVICTIONS. Read a few of the following cases.
RELEASED after FBI SADISTS DESTROYED this guys 17 YRS OF PRECIOUS LIFE
http://www.ga-innocenceproject.org/breaking.html 
RELEASED after FBI SADISTS DESTROYED this guys 19 YRS OF PRECIOUS LIFE
RELEASED after FBI SADISTS DESTROYED this guys 18 YRS OF PRECIOUS LIFE
RELEASED after FBI SADISTS DESTROYED this guys 10 YRS OF PRECIOUS LIFE
RELEASED after FBI SADISTS DESTROYED this guys 20 YRS OF PRECIOUS LIFE
RELEASED after FBI SADISTS DESTROYED this guys 13 YRS OF PRECIOUS LIFE
http://www.vadoc.com/DNA/ochoa.htm 
RELEASED after FBI SADISTS DESTROYED three guys' 14 YRS OF PRECIOUS
LIFE
http://home.iprimus.com.au/dna_info/dna/JA_DNA_illnews_20011212a.html 
RELEASED after FBI SADISTS DESTROYED this guys 20 YRS OF PRECIOUS LIFE
http://www.truthinjustice.org/john-stoll.htm 
RELEASED after FBI SADISTS DESTROYED this guys 18 YRS OF PRECIOUS LIFE
RELEASED after FBI SADISTS DESTROYED this guys 7 YRS OF PRECIOUS LIFE
RELEASED after FBI SADISTS DESTROYED this guys 15 YRS OF PRECIOUS LIFE
http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/news/id2791/pg1/ 
in your BEDROOM, KITCHEN, LIVING ROOM and DISGUSTINGLY even in your
THEMSELVES.
\DELUDE\ themselves they are LIVING IN A DEMOCRACY **** AS IF ****
from Saddam killing his own countrymen.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahhahaha... 
is NOTHING but a \MANIPULATIVE MACHINE\ and the FBI SADISTS have taken
MANIPULATION to an \ART FORM\.
And this SADISTIC, PERVERTED FBI DAUGHTERFUCKERS want to SPREAD this
JOKE OF A DEMOCRACY around the GLOBE.
There is NO DIFFERENCE between Saddam and the EVIL FBI
DAUGHTERFUCKERS. The CUNNING, DECEPTIVE and HIGHLY MANIPULATIVE FBI
PERVERTS and SADISTS use \SOPHISTICATED MANIPULATIVE SYSTEM and
his people using medieval methods.
SADISTS and PERVERTS\ TO \THINK\ you are living in a DEMOCRACY when in
\VEIL of DEMOCRACY\
with a VEIL of DEMOCRACY for the FBI daughterfuckers to FOOL 290 mil
americans and the REST OF THE WORLD)
POSTED ANONYMOUSLY in alt.security.alarms newsgroup in the link
provided below. BUT I want ALL OF YOU to THINK for a COUPLE OF MINUTES
** WHY ** he had to post anonymously JUST to post a SIMPLE COMMENT
\FBI agents are COCKROACHES\ ????
POLICE STATE and NOT A DEMOCRACY\.
3) FBI DICKHEADS solve everything out of PURE CHANCE and with INFINITE
and PERVERTS \BLINDLY\ without properly debating the pros and cons.
Just check out the news and see HOW MANY TIMES these FBI SHITHEADS
CANCELLED FLIGHTS in the last three years out of SHEER PARANOIA and
EACH TIME they turned out to be nothing but false alarm and 290 mil
americans including the SUPPOSEDLY PROGRESSIVE american MEDIA never
held these FBI DICKHEADS responsible for creating so much pain and
hassles to so many flight passengers.
DICKHEADS, what good is FBI if they CANNOT figure out who is a
to NY with THE COMBINED INTELLIGENCE of CIA + FBI + NSA + HS (Homeland
Security) + Scotland Yard + MI5 + MI6.
My dear fellow american citizens......INTELLIGENT FBI is an OXYMORON. 
Americans think these FBI dickheads are protecting them but the
making them PARANOID with all those SHITTY COLOR CODED threat ALERTS
every FUCKING YEAR FOR THREE YEARS around independence day, christmas
and new years eve and other holidays.
FBI DICKHEADS diverted a plane from London to Washington DC to an
airport in Maine just because Cat Stevens was in the plane and NOT
difference would it make if Cat Stevens who was COMPLETELY STRIP
SEARCHED in london airport (and hence UNARMED) was detained in
Washington DC airport itself and sent back to London INSTEAD of
PASSENGERs vacation plans and creating hassles and putting them
through SO MUCH PAIN which was COMPETELY AVOIDABLE.
This is ANOTHER PROOF, the FBI motherfuckers DO NOT care about
CREATING PAIN and HASSLES to american people, they ONLY CARE about
COVERING THEIR STINKING IMMATURE PARANOID ASSES.
4) HALF of the FBI agent transvestites join FBI because they are
LOSERS who could not find jobs in the private industry and end up at
FBI to get FULL LIFETIME JOB SECURITY. Case in point: NOT ONE FBI
agent was FIRED for letting 9/11 attack happen even though a minnesota
agent informed her superiors about some suspicious people taking
flight lessons in minnesota.
And the rest of the SHITHEADS in FBI joined FBI because the FBI JOB
acts like an APHRODISIAC and the THREE LETTER JACKET that goes with
the FBI job acts like a NUCLEAR VIAGRA.
daughterfuckers as a REWARD for FAILING to STOP 9/11.
My dear fellow americans......FBI daughterfuckers are nothing but
giving them MORE POWER so the FBI can use it as an APHRODISIAC to FUCK
Monica Lewisnskys and Washingtonnienes.
6) POWER MAKES human beings UNBEARABLY ARROGANT, SADISTIC and
PERVERTED without any EXCEPTIONS.
Check out how just LIMITED amount of POWER made american soldiers so
ARROGANT, PERVERTED and SADISTIC.
Excerpts from the column below: 
\You get a burning in your stomach, a rush, a feeling of hot lead
running through your veins, and you get a sense of power,\ Strong
said. \Imagine wearing point-blank body armor, an M-16 and all the
power in the world, and the authority of God. That power is very
ADDICTIVE.
http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/news/nation/8629607.htm 
Another column excerpts: 
/// More than once, he said, soldiers inserted their fingers into his
anus. He said one had touched his penis and asked, \Why is this
Now COMPARE the LIMITED POWER of american soldiers with the INFINITE
IMAGINE how SADISTIC and PERVERTED these FBI daughterfuckers have
become and are ABUSING that INFINITE POWER that makes these FBI
SADISTS feel like Gods to TORTURE ordinary US citizens in america
in iraq.
7) FBI EUNUCHS and TRANSVESTITES spend their PATHETIC, MISERABLE lives
GOSSIPING about subjects cuz they dont mingle with ordinary non-fbi
people for FEAR of giving away their IDENTITIES. That explains why
these FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS watched this guy Keith in his bedroom,
restroom, kitchen and living room and psycho-analysed him non stop for
three years.
8) If God suddenly makes all americans INDEPENDENT THINKERS, then the
FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS will immediately announce martial law,
declare DICTATORSHIP and sell the rest of the world the VIRTUES OF
(Dictatorship covered with a VEIL OF DEMOCRACY) because AT ANY TIME,
they can MANIPULATE 70% of americans into SUPPORTING THEIR ILLEGAL
JOKE.
LEAKING information to the public via the media to BRAINWASH and
POISON jury minds against the accused.
10) US Government is the MOST HYPOCRITIC, MANIPULATIVE, UNBEARABLY
ARROGANT and RACIST entity in the world.
MINISTER of India (equivalent to Rumsfeld) George Fernandes
incidentally a CHRISTIAN in american airports AGAINST EVERY GOVERNMENT
PROTOCOL.
default SUPERIOR to the rest of the people in the world. The poor
female security officer at delhi airport was later FIRED for strip
searching an american woman at the airport security counter because of
govt, FYI.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3656174.stm 
If this is NOT UNBEARABLE RACISM and ARROGANCE on the part of American
Govt, then I do not know what is.
rights of muslims in Guantanamo bay, iraq and afghanistan and the same
\EVERY FUCKING YEAR\ on all other countries in the rest of the world.
BASH other countries about their human rights violations when THE
muslims and its citizens (including mine even though I am not a muslim
terrorist) in everyway possible for THREE YEARS.
I am NOT aruging on behalf of china or any other country. I am SICK
RIGHTEOUSNESS and UNBEARABLE ARROGANCE.
planet earth MANY TIMES in a couple of hours and STILL the FUCKING
RESEARCH to IMPROVE its nuclear arsenal and make MINIATURIZED nuclear
weapons to kill PEOPLE of OTHER COUNTRIES.
Read this column below and think WHY SHOULD the REST OF THE WORLD put
American military is ATLEAST 10,000 times MORE POWERFUL than the TINY
nation of iraqs military in CONVENTIONAL WEAPONS and STILL the RACIST
NATION OF IRAQ and 290 mil americans WONDER why the REST OF THE WORLD
GOVT\.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0126-01.htm 
and DAUGHTER FUCKERS can ARM TWIST, THREATEN, COERCE and BLACKMAIL the
????
I ask all americans, how would you feel if your neighbor in Cleveland
or Sacramento or Nashville tells you that he will keep 20,000 GUNS in
HIS HOUSE but he DOES NOT LET you keep ANY GUNS in your house so he
can ARM TWIST, COERCE, THREATEN and BLACKMAIL you into submission and
FORCE YOU to behave like a SLAVE to him ?????
it includes hundreds of millions of christians, buddhists and other
govt.
Even christian european countries including spain, england, france,
germany, netherlands and their predominantly CHRISTIAN population
If americans do not wake up from slumber, rise and take back control
will be LEFT WITH NO FRIENDS in the very near future.
\The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to
continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too
expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, pull back
the curtains, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the
theater.\
-- Frank Zappa 
http://www.oilempire.us/fascism.html 
POLLUTION and earths greenhouse gas emissions BUT STILL the UNBEARABLY
ARROGANT ROGUE american govt walked out of signing Kyoto Protocol.
Excerpt: 
Under the Protocol, the U.S. is supposed to cut its greenhouse gas
emissions by seven percent. With four percent of the world's
population, the country accounts for about 25 percent of the Earth's
greenhouse gas emissions.
http://www.rememberjohn.com/kyoto.html 
When it comes to Kyoto, US is the ROGUE NATION 
15) UNBEARABLY ARROGANT EVIL US Govt is the ONLY DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY
that OPPOSES International Criminal Court because the FUCKING ARROGANT
FUCKING FBI sadists want \SEPARATE LAWS\ for american citizens from
people in the REST OF THE WORLD. ( Another reason for the REST of the
Excerpts: 
No, despite U.S. President Bill Clinton's signing of the treaty, the
United States does not now support the Court. In fact, along with
Turkey, it is the only NATO member that is not expected to join the
Court and the only democratic country in the world that actively
opposes it.
Second, the Bush administration is requesting states around the world
to approve bilateral agreements requiring them not to surrender
American nationals to the ICC. The goal of these agreements (\impunity
agreements\ or so-called \Article 98 agreements\) is to exempt U.S.
nationals from ICC jurisdiction. They also lead to a two-tiered rule
of law for the most serious international crimes: one that applies to
U.S. nationals; another that applies to the rest of the world's
citizens. Human Rights Watch urges states not to sign impunity
agreements with the United States.
http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/icc/us.htm 
16) Here is an AUSTRALIAN CHRISTIAN's view about the UNBEARABLE
Ian Paul Freely 
*********************************************************** 
IT IS TIME for all right thinking americans to TAKE BACK CONTROL of
american govt.
===
Subject: Re: FBI turned ..... IGNORE, PURE GARBAGE
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
Plonk !! 
===
Subject: Re: FBI turned ..... IGNORE, PURE GARBAGE
Agreed, but I actually read most of the 950 lines.  It was a
masterpiece of textbook paranoid delusions.  The guy thinks there are
FBI cameras and microphones everywhere recording everything he does,
GPS trackers in his car, and on and on.  Imagine how desperately
unhappy his life must be - childhood monsters in the closet that
follow him everywhere.  And nobody will believe him because the FBI
got to them first.
He's almost as bad as SysRPL programmers :-)
Bill \I'm being followed by the Mickey Mouse Club\ Markwick
===
Subject: Re: FBI turned ..... IGNORE, PURE GARBAGE
But beware! The fact that you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they're not 
after you!
        Eric (ROFL)
===
Subject: Re: FBI turned ..... IGNORE, PURE GARBAGE
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
Hehehe... That remark rox :) 
===
Subject: Re: FBI turned ..... IGNORE, PURE GARBAGE
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
Yeah just as your DD disks :P 
===
Subject: Re: FBI turned ..... IGNORE, PURE GARBAGE
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
Tsk Tsk Tsk ;) :P 
===
Subject: Re: FBI turned ..... IGNORE, PURE GARBAGE
Didn't you know that the whole reason for the new HP49 is so that HP
could secretly track everyone using their machine, it even has a
little GPS transponder built in and samples and records your DNA when
you use the keypad (that's why it misses key strokes)  Rumor has it
that the next gen calcs will have a miniature camera and wifi that
will secretly monitor our every move  .....
LOL ;)
===
Subject: Re: FBI turned ..... IGNORE, PURE GARBAGE
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
X
X
Bah!
It was only active on the early models and ROM
but it ate too much battery
The hp 48gII models that were gathered away (early models)
actually HAD some flash memory where the information was stored
unfortunately without the fuelcell techonology
this kind of personal surveillance will not be feasible
:-D  :-)   :-/   :-(   :-O
[VPN]
PS. [SENSORED by NSA]
===
Subject: Re: FBI turned ..... IGNORE, PURE GARBAGE
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
ROFL (while looking for camera's indeed) A+ :) 
===
Subject: HP48GII: cannot create using New Folder command from conn4x
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
I am using HP48GII and Connectivity Kit 2.2 built 2353 (the latest version 
available from hp website).
When I try to create new folder using pop-up menu PC sends to my HP a 
string:
\'New' CRDIR\ (with quotation marks, as cited)
Of course, the command lands on a stack and nothing happens.
However, running Calculator Command window and typing
'New' CRDIR
works fine - the directory is being created. Could you please find any idea \

why pop-up command doesn't work properly? I have tried many solutions 
(switching beween algebraic and rpn modes, changing some io flags, etc.) - 
nothing helped.
Tomek 
===
Subject: May I ask other questions please?
This is a smallish group which I recognise
by name as a group addressed to Graphing style
H/P calculator products. (I think this is true.)
  ***Are there other forums with a more general focus
to H/P calculators and programming in general?
By forums, I mean IRC, Web discussions, classes, other groups..
Who does design on the H/P calculators today? ( I can't tell.)
What does H/P mean to supply, to what part of the public?
How good do users have to be, to understand the H/P calculator?
Why are people complaining about the scientific calculators ?
Who do the posters think they are complaining to ?
Where can I find Resolution to MY dumb questions ?
Are the designers here  also ?
Where are the marketing guys which say everything is great?
Any Hints?
===
Subject: Re: May I ask other questions please?
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
HP and some other 3rd party company working from them.
It depends of what they want to do :-)
because you can not please everyone at the same time, and because the HP49G+ \

is miles away from the HP41CX :-)
:-)
you can call the HP technical support, or just ask them here on the 
newsgroup.
yep
politically correct), not here!
Colonel miracle whip, in the bathroom, with the sponge :-)
have a good day, cyrille 
===
Subject: Re: May I ask other questions please?
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
X
X
Cyrille (and thus HP) is still lurking around?
GREAT!
Now...
How about a cheap HP-47G without any basic symbolics
(just numerical integrate and ROOT)
(no ISOL, QUAD, derivate, etc...)
to compete with the TI-83/84
Just remember to ALWAYS use FlashROM
so that bugs can be fixed easily
Even if the upgrade only could be done by a re-seller
    [User-Flash is not that important]
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: May I ask other questions please?
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
Naturally HP-15C Platinum with 16*speed and 32KB memory
and HP-42SII is a must and then.....more....more
:-D
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: May I ask other questions please?
and don't bother designing new keyboards please, use the old style ones :)
===
Subject: Re: May I ask other questions please?
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
You mean old kinposh 49g+ superior quality keyboard
OR
the old HP-41C keyboard which never fails
thus customers will not buy a new calculator...
8-P
[VPN] 
===
Subject: Re: May I ask other questions please?
HP49G+
Brutally put, but sadly true (spoken with loving rememberance as I look at
my trusty 41CX (that replaced my CV (that replaced my C))
They were just years \ahead of their time\ (written with tears in my \
eyes)
:)
===
Subject: Re: May I ask other questions please?
following : 
I think, I'm getting myself a copy of the H/P 42.
That will keep things as simple as possable for me.
God knows, I need Simple.
bye.
===
Subject: Re: May I ask other questions please?
No :-P
What's the point of the questions, by the way? The only thing I can
think of is that you might be doing some sort of study of HP
calculators.
--
Bhuvanesh
===
Subject: Re: May I ask other questions please?
It's kind of a horrible fascination I'm developing
after finding that not all the keys on the 33s do what I think
they should, and other calculators seem to be able to do.
I want to find a feedback channel, so I can ask them if they
have checked if \all their bolts are on tight\ ( so to speak ).
Ha- As If ..
I hope this is not impolite, 
but is that pronounced \ Boo-Vanish \?
I can' imagine I've ever seen a name quite so unusual.
===
Subject: Re: May I ask other questions please?
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
X
You may check the HP's web site for learning modules
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: May I ask other questions please?
\Boo-vanish\ as in ghosts? ;-)
\Bh\ is something most English speakers cannot pronounce correctly. A
first approximation would be \Boo-vuh-nash\ where the \a\ is
pronounced as in \ate\.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing? :-)
My name does have a meaning, as do a majority of names in India (a
couple of decades back, most Indian names had a meaning).
--
Bhuvanesh
===
Subject: Re: May I ask other questions please?
To me it means, at least,
\Calculator Dude, India 000001\  
:-)
===
Subject: Re: May I ask other questions please?
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
Nice hear you have there
To me it means, at least,
\CAS Dude\ (Mathematica, Titanic, HPWonderKeys+, etc...)
Actually one could search the archieves (my holocubes were destroyed)
since I faintly remember that he has once revealed the meaning of his name.
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: May I ask other questions please?
I'd guess Bhuv is named after Bhuvaneshwar (the Lord of The Earth)?
Steen
===
Subject: Re: May I ask other questions please?
Mostly true - although there appears to be a quite a knowledge base of most
HP calc products made over the years
Wouldn't have a clue
Wouldn't have a clue - the latest versions (49g+) are manufactured by Kinpo
in China if that helps.
Wouldn't have a clue.
Depends on how much of it's potential you want to tap into - even a
top-of-the-line item like the 49g+ is easy to drive if you're just doing
basic addition and subtraction. The high-end models, in my experience, can
be a bit intimidating at first - but as you get to know it - get to
understand it - and get help from the gurus here the pieces slowly fall \
into
place (or as many as you need to do what you bought it for) - you'll never
tap into EVERYTHING they have to offer - they're not designed for that -
they're designed with many many functions so that the units can appeal to \
as
wide a market as possible - and each person can use just the features that
they need.
No Comment.
Probably others who read these news groups. By the way, we have it on good
authority that the manufacturer also monitor these groups. So 'complaints'
serve to alert the manufacturer of issues and warn others
Try asking here.
You'll never know.
At home at the moment, but taking their kids out to the movies a bit later
on.
Don't ask so many questions all at once.
===
Subject: Re: May I ask other questions please?
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
X
X
I think that HP still does the design
The manufacturing happens where it is cheap
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: May I ask other questions please?
===
Subject: Re: May I ask other questions please?
what is H/P?
===
Subject: Re: May I ask other questions please?
 Thats the 'ol :
 \Hewlett (bar) Packard\ 
 Logo Abbreviation.
 Now, Is the word LOGO an acronym ?
 (just kidding.)
===
Subject: HPTOOLS
Hello all,
I am having a hell of a time getting the hptools to work correctly in Linux. \

I have in the past but now it seems they do not choose to cooperate.
I compiled the source with no errors.  I assembled the entries.  The main
problem I am having is that sasm seems not to like my use of INCLUDE with
respect to the external declarations.  My extdec.h looks like:
EXTERNAL name1
EXTERNAL name2
EXTERNAL name3
My main source code file has the following:
INCLUDE romid.h
INCLUDE extdec.h
ASSEMBLE
 CON(1) 8
RPL
::
 foo bar
;
ASSEMBLE
 CON(1) 8
RPL
::
 foo bar
;
etc
Below is the error I get in the main source code .l file output by sasm:
*** ERROR: Illegal mnemonic ***
   13 00000        INCLUDE extdec.h
   14             *|| Reading from extdec.h
Could someone successfully using the hptools in Linux please assist me?
-- 
~/.signature
===
Subject: Need a HP48GII beta tester for Ice-Cube :))
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
Open-Fire)
send me a mail: pigallio (at) atsat (dot) com
You can also test it on HP49G+
Lilian.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
===
Subject: 74120 Mining the Web: eigenVectors, Kriging, Inverse Distance
 Weighting Searches 74120
X-Library: Indy 9.00.10
Site and Features:  http://www.eigensearch.com
Search engine, eigenMethod, eigenvector, mathematical, manifolds, science, \
technical, search tools, eigenmath, Jacobian, quantum, mechanics, manifolds, \
science, physics, chemistry, law, legal, government, home, office, business, \
domain lookup, medical, travel, food, university students, searching, \
searchers, surfing, advanced search, search tools
Chemistry, mathematics, physical sciences, engineering, aerospace, \
astronomy, photography, news, computers, software, investment, venture \
capital, stakeholder, Biology, Chemistry, Geosciences, Biotechnology, \
Medical, Nursing, Anthropology, psychology, psychiatry, Philosophy, History, \
Business, bachelor, Ph.D., Masters, administrative, MBA, eigenMethod, \
eigenvector, mathematical, manifolds, science, technical, search tools, \
eigenmath, Jacobian, quantum, mechanics, manifolds, physics, chemistry, law, \
legal, health, government, home, office, business, domain, lookup, medical, \
travel, food, university, students, search, searches, search engine, \
directory, directories, category, categories, help,  searching, searchers, \
surfing, advanced search, search help, search tips
Beta Users and advanced features Sign-up here...  \
http://www.eigensearch.com/inc/constructs/betasignup.htm
Central to eigenSearch Advanced is the freedom to construct complex search \
explorations, save the forms for later use; and apply weight factor to each \
phrase and term. EigenSearch processing will apply eigenvector math and \
Jacobian matrices to construct search terms that are tailored to your \
exploration. Cross-pollination is also applied as described below. The \
eigenvector approach is clearly highly advanced and would normally be useful \
for very sophisticated applications. Nevertheless, anyone may utilize the \
method. An advanced form is simply a matrix in which the user types words and \
phrases randomly in a multi-cell form (please click thumbnail to view).
Advanced features
EigenOperator (cross pollination) and eigenvector constructs
Cross document content pollination within every web site directory tree \
(unlike conventional search engines and tools eigenSearch checks for your \
terms and phrases and drills down though multiple directory documents)
EigenSearch cross-pollination is applied to documents within the same (tree) \
level in a URL (peer documents). Thereby limiting the amount of contamination \
of results
Illustration:
\Blood Hounds\ + \English Breed\ will present documents that contain \
either of these phrases within the same peer level in a document storage \
structure; for example, within the directory: www.smartdogs/hounds.
eigenSearch limits pollinating occurrences outside a peer level. For \
example; \blood hounds\ + \English breed\ found in two different \
directories would not report an eigenSearch result: i.e. \Blood hounds\ \
found in www.smartdogs/hounds and \English Breed\ found in. \
www.smartdogs/hounds/Europe would not be found. EigenSearch therefore \
searches one tree (peer) level in a site and looks for multiple occurrences \
of multiple phrases across all documents within this peer level.
Corporate products can be tailored to drill down infinite levels for \
eigenOperator (cross-pollinating operator) matching.
eigenSearch single phrase results will find all documents and show the \
results as independent findings. This way the user can find results across \
many documents and the combined highly constrained results are reserved for a \
single level cross pollination.
Extremely high (cross-pollinating) eigenValues will correspond to finely \
granular and refined search explorations.
Beta users receive the following features:
Login and password
Save search constructs for later use in your own personal construct tables
EigenOperator (cross Pollinating Operator) advanced features as described \
above (eigenvector to follow)
Database (Table) upload and eigenvector computations
EigenSearch seeks 300,000 beta testers for its advanced eigenOperator based \
cognitive engine. This engine will allow for a multiplicity of search \
parameters for users to select so as to mathematically narrow results. The \
system will employ eigenVectors, eigenValues and eigenMatrices to determine \
relevance to user searches; thereby rendering high fidelity confirmed search \
results.
Naturally the computational power for doing such math is why beta testers \
are required. Each tester is welcome to comment on user friendliness, speed, \
change and ergonomic elegance. It is an eigenSearch goal to continue \
advancing the user interface so as to remain intuitively simple to use while \
at the same time providing hi-fidelity explorations.
All beta testers will receive a login and password, which provides entry \
into features for saving search constructs and parameters according to their \
own classification approach. Saved results and parameters can be used at any \
time and modified to alter search results. Beta users will be able to import \
their own data sets (2-dimentional) and perform an eigenValue analysis.
<r<p_
===
Subject: Re: 74120 Mining the Web: eigenVectors, Kriging, Inverse Distance \
Weighting Searches 74120
 Imagine that. 
 Another attempt in fine mathamatical articulation to 
 circumnavigate the G.I.G.O. Problem. 
 A triumph, I'd suppose.
 \ Good morning, Dave.\
 \ Good morning H.A.L.\
===
Subject: Nice piece of hardware
Last night i cared to look at
Accessories for HP PDAs on official HP site.
what i found there is a cute little camera working in SD slot (since SD is
standard for iPAQs)
-so what would you say if we grab that one and use it as our own in 49G+ \
:-)
-nice 56K modems are also available there -for SD of course.
just to tease TI fans a bit:
-could you do that on Your TI ?
manjo
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
Manjo: a demo :))
:-)
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
I see Lilian has some faith in me, that's nice to see :-)
Remember Samsung chip was not built for G+ specifically
it is general purpose chip supporting SD etc...
Thoughts:
Camera basicaly has a memory area (frame) where image data is updated
you write some code to specifi address to triger update and then read the
data from
image frame captured by the CCD.
so with right programming everything that works with iPAQs has to work \
here.
of course some heavy ARM work would be needed and camera documentation from
HP
(for that lovely tiny camera)
now...
coycojesus
(do you seriously think it wouldn't work ?)
manjo
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
sorry manjo.
How old are you and is the 49G+ the only hp calc do you own?
I just want to say that because I have seen lots of messages
(interesting messages) of you talking about this machine, you know a
lot.
I have done an external keyboard ,now a really imnpressive one for the
48g series, and is perfect, but had no success in HP community, I
prefer touching hardware than software, so I hope you have good luck
with this new machine.
Just wanted to say that you are a good future for hp community.
Bye.
===
Subject: Maybe i didn't properly introduce myself
I assume it was RS232 keyboard (with some work any PC keyboard can be 48
external keybaord)
-i hope you used that knowledge when you did you keybaord.
I have built a Sound card (8 bit DAC resistor lather type) for my 48 SX i
will release my PCB design and software concept for it in HARDWARE section
of OPENFIRE site if somone is interested.
http://fly.cc.fer.hr/~manjo/openfire/
So, G+ is not the first calc i own
-back in 94. i purchased 48 SX for my studies in electrical engeneering
(http://www.fer.hr/)
-i own it today, and it works fine, my girlfriend uses it :-)
-although electerical engeneer i was in the class of what you would call
computer science
-never finished my studies, was little less than half-done :-(
-now i'm working with companies in US -designing and producing large
e-commerce systems and web applications.
(large foremost in monthly income as well as number of items and
information)
-prior to my studies i finished high-school as Telecomunications technitian
majoring in Packet Radio communications
(this was prior to GPRS and 802.11)
-my interest in electronic came very early in elementary school since then \
i
electronic concepts very early.
About my age:
Cyrille and Lilian, are about same age as me, but i am just a little bit
jounger :-)
About my enthusiasm:
-my work (main income) is not related to HP nor calculators, it is related
to internet, servers, and services
-i bought G+ because i was following HP's progress in calculators -even
waited for it to be released, when i have read the G+ specs i was happy \
with
many improvements over older models and was planing to buy it. (note i \
never
showd such interest for 49G)
As my main goal and passion is to programm the G+, i waited to see if ARM
programming will be supported.
The moment i saw Al Borowski's site on ARM programming i decided i want it.
(then i saw some things done by Cyrille on french newsgroups) -that made me
even more sure i wanted G+
Waited for a while more (to see the keyboard issues fixed) and since CN40x
should have issues fixed i decided to buy one.
My CN407 has some issues, and broken hinges, i don't complain so much
because i can live with that (for now) but as soon as somone reports new
imrpoved models have no keyboard issues i will send this one for
replacement.
Again G+ is not about money for me -that's why i'm trying to help anybody \
as
much possible so that these issues can be fixed, because it realy is a
beautifull machine and i would love to see it widely accepted.
I'm not sure if they are classes in Calulator environments and programming
available, but I would sure add a class in Computer Science studies to
calculators and calculator programming in general.
The area has become so large in both budget (makret size) and knowledgebase
that it realy deserves more attention from both, scientists (educational
population) as well as manufacturers.
HP did realize that -and is showing that by offering emulators to educators
so they can get familiar with the platform and the product proior to
purchase.
The main goal of this is to prepare the educated and educators for
difference in operation
(very different from both common calculator or PC or even PDA)
-once they get familiar with the system and they get the G+ in their hands
they might say : \finaly this is it, this is the real thing\ on the other
hand unprepared person might be unplesently surprised and loose a lot of
enthusiasm and will to learn when they realize how different it is from
everything they know, so their response might be: \what the hell is this
thing good for ?\
manjo
===
Subject: Re: Maybe i didn't properly introduce myself
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
X
X
What \french newsgroups\?
Modified clip:
===
Subject: enough about me :-)
the people who influenced me the most can be found listed on my site:
(list is growing bigger every day, and i realy am happy to say *thak you
all*)
manjo
http://fly.cc.fer.hr/~manjo
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
X
I seriously think it's too much work
you need a host driver and I hope your peripherals don't draw power....
I'm waiting for the Qonos....2005
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
Of course VPN it would be MUCH work
it's endless possibilities of application i'm thinking here :-)
(not fear of the work)
You didn't quite follow VPN this little camera i'm talking about is not USB
it's SD slot.
(power from SD slot is sufficient for it to work -neat little thing eh ?)
here's my reecent thinking about qonos:
if QONOS will be more like PDA rather than calculator (like it seems)
and if it will cost over $350. this will:
a) make me like my G+ even more or
b) help me to add 100 or 200 more  dollars and buy h5550 with nice little
attachable-dettachable keyboard which was missing for soo long, but now
available as an accesory.
Further i think HP didn't implement all these nice features to G+ because
they didn't want to get ahead of themselves.
However if TI releases something worth competing with (or QONOS turns out \
to
be greater success than anticipated)
HP will eventualy react.
Finaly i don't need to remind you there is a LOT of room for enhancements \
in
G+ just if all features of current hardware was used, not to mention
hardware enhancements.
manjo
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
Yes, but then the SD is not SDIO
Well it seems to become the only Linux PDA outside Japan
(where Sharp Linux PDA's are still sold)
and have reasonable PDA features including keyboard for both
the alphabet and numeric calculations
The Mathexplorer, Xiac, and GnuPlot sound all very interesting
AND
when in the calc mode you have a choise of fully Saturn/Motorola
assembler compatible HP/TI calculator - respectively.
That too! :-D
Nope. Hydrix SDA is a hybrid with no compromise in either PDA or calc.
Hmmm. never though about that. Carly would allow for reasearch budget?
Naaah! LOL! Impossible....
Ti on the other hand could release a more advanced (and finally faster) 
calc.
Cyrille and other would surely do wonders with proper budget for research
and enough time for programming plus proper HW testing outside of China.
I don't think it will happen in Carly-dynasty
We will have to wait for a real leader for the Company
:-(
[VPN] - \Pessimistic Mode On\
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
This is not correct, to quote the datasheet (page 442)
19-1
SECURE DIGITAL INTERFACE FOR SDIO(SDI)
OVERVIEW
The S3C2410X Secure Digital Interface (SDI) can interface for SD memory 
card, SDIO device and Multi-Media
Card (MMC).
FEATURES
Ñ SD Memory Card Spec. (ver. 1.0) / MMC Spec. (2.11) \
compatible
Ñ 16 words (64 bytes) FIFO (depth 16) for data Tx/Rx
Ñ 40-bit Command Register (SDICARG[31:0]+SDICCON[7:0])
Ñ 136-bit Response Register (SDIRSPn[127:0]+ SDICSTA[7:0])
Ñ 8-bit Prescaler logic (Freq. = System Clock / (2(P + 1)))
Ñ CRC7 & CRC16 Generator
Ñ Normal, and DMA Data Transfer Mode (byte or word transfer)
Ñ 1bit / 4bit (wide bus) Mode & Block / Stream Mode Switch \
support
Ñ Supports up to 25 MHz in data transfer mode for SDI
Ñ Supports up to 10 MHz in data transfer mode for MMC
cheers,
Al
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
O hello Al...
-technically VP is right SD is NOT SDIO,
what they missed is: G+ actualy has SDIO :-)
So what do you say Al,
-shal we steal iPAQ's SDIO devices ?
manjo
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
Yep, and then, you can start writing all the drivers :-)
cyrille
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
Ooo,
hello Cyrille, nice to hear from you :-)
HP shouldn't bother with drivers because SD memory is all what is realy
needed for calculator, maybe add FAT32 support any other SDIO devices \
should
be considered accessories and ONLY IF HP listed some SDIO device in
accessories list for G+ i would expect drivers for it to be included.
If we (users) decide to steal devices on our own :-) it is understandable
that we (ourselves) must provide drivers for these.
Full SDIO aware host with autodetection with support for multiple \
drivers...
would be a lot of work,
but specific drivers manualy installed for single SDIO device, without
autodetection, just basic acknowledgment that proper device is pluged in to
SD should be less work on the other hand should work well :-)
manjo
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
Hi Manjo,
It's technically possible to do all kinds of weird things. However I 
hand my hands full at the moment, so I guess it will be up to you :-)
cheers,
Al
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
Same here,
but i'll say :
 yes we will (with time) -no need to hurry :-)
manjo
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
BUT
what about my digital camera attached to 49g+
do you mean that I bought this device in vain?
I think I will put in in Qonos....hey! When is *that* ready?
(-:    :-)
[VPN] 
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
Qonos people must realy concetrate on getting the true value from Xscale
and surrounding hardware, not making up stories that G+ can't do this or
that.
If i say current TI can't read SD i mean: there is no way current hardware
can read SD with any kind of program or driver.
If i say you can't use SD camera in G+ i'm 50% accurate, the built in meta
kernel can't, but with proper programming it can !
if and when Qonos will be ready it shouldn't be compared to G+ as Qonos is
realy PDA, runing calculator emulators.
on the other hand by having large display and PDA-like designs Qonos might
end up being banned from schools.
In that case they will not be comparable at all -becouse HP will be in
schools, where Qonos may not be allowed.
HP has always respected the limitations dictated by the school authorities,
(limited IR range, key layout, amount of memory... etc)
also HP has kept highest possible degree of compatibility with older
products.
with all that combined i see qonos people in big trouble, they need to \
start
carefully, thinking about the future,
Their intentions must be clear right from the start:
-is it their goal to make a calculator company or
-just that one product (in that case i would call it pilot project or demo
of some sort)
-how will they deal with copyright issues, i hope they don;t expect me to
buy 49G
to feed the Qonos with its ROM in order to legaly use Qonos as 49G (same
thing for TI)
Will there be any upgrades to the unit or newer models ?
-they announced color at later point
-what will be the extent of compatibility with gray scale version and so on
About HP not spending money for research:
I'm not sure what's the time frame when this all happened, but you seem to
be forgetting the Expander, whole expander story supports my story, i'll \
try
to explain:
They spent man-hours and budget on Expander research, they developed a fine
unit,
Expander is more-less what Qonos will try to be :-)
Then what happens ?
- they stash it away an develop whole different machine a little less \
potent
but fine in most ways, why ?
Expander was:
-too expensive
-too PDA like (probably wouldn't be allowed in schools -which would be
reason enough to be abandoned)
-too few keys (for my taste) :-)
-would interfere with their own PDA market
G+ has ability to support color LCD with touch screen, however I don't \
think
HP caluclator will have stylus pen in the near future -because that might \
be
one of the suilly things that could ban them out of schools.
As i see it, HP tries to keep consumers mind clear about some things:
-if you need a calculator buy a calculator,
-if you need a bit more, yet stay very portable buy PDA (again some of our
line of fine PDA products)
-if you need a bit more, try with some of our Lap-tops
...and so on
lather goes all the way to the top -to mainframe computers and network
servers
At the same time, they like to have their products easy distinguishable \
from
competition as well as their own
-laptop can't be confused with desktop (there are rules in design and
functionality) and so on...
What you get...
-a wide choice of products, some of them appealing to the consumer and suit
the consumers needs
(compromise is always needed as you can't make product appeal to everyone,
so why bother,
but you see they do work in these directions as well -trying to find the
shape of their devices which will appeal to most of us)
I'm thinking :
HP's strategy is to show the consumer that they (consumers) don't need to \
go
around looking for stuff,
instead, they need to take some time to browse trough HP's product line and
you, me (consumer) will find the solution they needed.
Is this a bad strategy ?
Wouldn't you try to do it in your own company ?
manjo
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
...or 'native' calculators.
than that of an HP-49+?
Umm... maybe... I doubt that when the HP-41 series came out they bothered to \

even _ask_.  Even by the time the HP-28 came around, I wonder if they had 
started involving schools or not?  Clearly at some point they did.  The 
problem is that there is no general consensus within schools (elementary, 
high school, nor college) as to what's 'acceptable.'
I think this was due more to the fact that it also tended to keep their own \

development costs low (e.g., leveraging the Saturn CPU and lots of math 
routines already written in RPL) than a concerted effort.
Hardly.  I don't think you understand the Qonos target market; I suppose I 
don't either :-), but I suspect it's aimed at the college level and those 
who are now practicing.  At the college level, although it might not be 
allowed on exams, it'd be an unlikely exam that allowed an HP-49G+ and not a \

Qonos, so that's not much of a negative.  For practicing engineers (etc.), 
it'll win based on whether or not it's easier to use and more powerful than \

the competition.
Personally I'm holding out to buy a Qonos (rather than a 49G+; I have a 48GX \

and a 33S) primarily as a nod to Qonos actually taking advantage of some of \

the technology that's come about in the last 10 years as opposed to the HP 
approach where there's been some small evolutionary changes but overall a 
very uninspired result.  (Consider the change between the HP-41CV and the 
HP-48SX... now consider the HP-48SX to the HP-49G+... not very impressive, 
is it?)
I think they have plenty of other business, so they can afford (for some 
amount of time) to see how well the thing sells and make their plans 
thereafter.
Good point, but personally I'm planning on trying to use the 'native mode' 
calculators rather than using an emulated machine.
Irrelevant.  Will there by any upgrades to HP models?
Sheesh.  Get real... these guys are a small company (probably... 1/100? 
1/1000? the size of HP?) and I'll happily buy their first Qonos release 
_with the full expectation that at some point in the future they may make a \

fancier version_ -- even if that fancier version is pretty much completely 
incompatible with the original version.
Keep in mind that Qonos is a sophisticated enough machine that maintaining 
source level comptability between versions is a lot easier than, e.g., the 
HP-48/49xx series where (throwback to the '80s -- perfectly acceptable at 
the time) there's still a lot of SYSEVALs and LIBEVALs that don't port 
between machines.
HP certianly spends money on research, I'm just not impressed with the 
results.  I suppose this is more of a research money _allocation_ and 
_priorities_ problem.
Um, no... first and foremost, Qonos still has a CALCULATOR KEYPAD (lots of 
geeky buttons).  This is what separates it from other PDAs and, IMO, keeps 
it far more 'usable.'
What was the target price?
Again, I can't see how you could allow an HP-49G+ and not an Expander.
Yes.
If it only 'officially' ran the calculator application, I kind of doubt it; \

people who'd go to the effort to use it as a regular PDA are certainly out 
there, but not large enough to put any kink in HP's iPaq sales.
(Off-topic: Somewhere a few years back I saw -- on the web -- where a guy 
had gotten his Kodak digital camera -- that happened to be running Linux --  \

to play Doom on the little display.  Just a hack in that the screen 
resolution wasn't very high and the 'keyboard' isn't arranged properly, but \

still interesting to see!)
Given that most people are slower with a stylus than a keyboard, I find it 
bizarre that a school district would use _that_ as a criteria for what an 
'allowed' calculator is or isn't.  But who knows, maybe they figure it 
correlates well enough with processor/application power or something.
HP is now run by folks who are first and foremost 'business men' and not 
engineers and scientists.  There's nothing wrong with that, and they 
certainly make plenty of decent products (I still like the calculators, even \

if I'm a little disappointed in them these days!).  However, it --  
potentially -- leaves them vulnerable to market competition from small firms \

that understand the technical needs of their markets better than they do. 
This is why I think Qonos will be successful...
---Joel
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
It clearly wasn't targeted at students. In 1979, the 41C cost about 800 
US Dollars in todays money.
Even by the time the HP-28 came around, I wonder if they had
My guess is that since low-cost PC's and laptops have taken most of the 
market, they've had to turn to education. The educational sector is a 
much, much larger market then the professional one.
(Consider the change between the HP-41CV and the
I'd say it is.
HP48SX cost: ~$500 in todays dollars
HP49G+ cost: ~$130
The 48/49 has jumped from a 2MHz custom HP chip (slow on a 
clock-for-clock basis), to an industry standard CPU running at up to 
~288KB vs 512MB or more. Sure, the screen resolution hasn't changed 
much, but the rest of the hardware is big improvement (neglecting the 
keyboard issues people have reported).
I think the software is a big step ahead as well. If the 49g+ didn't 
have a CAS, I wouldn't use it.
For most of my engineering exams, the exam says \You are permitted any 
calculator\. However when the supervisor reads out the instructions, 
\you are not permitted a handheld computer\ is among them. This is a 
fairly vague rule. How do you define 'handhelp computer'? The 49 has 
faster hardware then my first PC, yet it is allowed, and a Laptop or 
iPaq is not.
I think the difference is software. Since Qonos runs linux it would be 
deemed a computer and banned. If you permit the Qonos you would have to 
allow everyone to bring in laptops to be fair.
cheers,
Al
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
My point was that as soon as the things came within the realm of being 
affordable by college engineering students, I think that was HP's next 'big \

market' -- and at that time I'm sure they _still_ hadn't asked anyone about \

exam policies.  (At the time colleges were probably debating just how fancy \

of a slide rule you could use. :-) )
Good point.
I remember my HP48SX as $275 back in ~1996?  Is that really ~$500 today? 
Ouch!
...which is immediately 'crippled' due to the fact that it's RUNNING A 
SATURN EMULATOR!  ARRGH.  Consider how fast the HP-49G+ would be if it 
weren't having to emulate the Saturn; THAT'S what I'd call a significant 
improvement, yet HP took the easier/cheaper/faster way out and built an 
emulator.  That's certainly a defensible choice, but as I say, after TEN 
YEARS, I'd have expected more.
That nice, but I don't think there were that many people who felt the 48SX 
didn't have enough memory in the first place (I had the 128KB expansion 
card, and while 32KB was a little constraining, 160KB was always plenty).
(This is sort of like the HP-33s -- 32KB of memory, and I guarantee you that \

99+% of the users out there will never use more than, say, 4KB of it.)
OK. :-)
perspective, adding CAS makes a lot of sense.
Improvements I think the HP-49SX should have had after 10 years:
-- (Significantly) higher screen resolution, something at or close to QVGA 
(320x240)
-- Greyscale graphics
-- Code re-compiled under an ARM version of the RPL interpreter.
-- Nothing 'broken,' like the keyboard :-)
The HP-49G+ is probably _capable_ (not sure anyone will ever do it!) of 
running Linux as well, right (heck, it already uses much of the GNU tool 
chain!)?  Qonos runs Linux as well as eCOS (for the 'calculator' mode, which \

I find more interesting), and arguably eCOS seems 'allowable.'
Personally I doubt instructors will make 'calculator bans' based on the 
Palm PDAs and WinCE PDAs are typically disallowed?
---Joel
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
I got my data from http://www.hpmuseum.org/hp48s.htm
It says the 48SX was $350, in 1990. http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
It wasn't ten years, only a couple after the 49g came out. I hate to 
think how much it would cost to recode everything in pure ARM. As far as 
I know, theres still code in there from the HP28. I doubt there is 
anyone left who understands all of it.
True, but I bet 99% of users won't know there is emulation, or even care \
:-)
Huh? Are you confusing a CAS (Symbolic mathematics) with Algebraic mode?
This would be nice.
The 49g+ already has 16 shade greyscale graphics in hardware; HPGCC has 
a library to use them.
If I had $5 for everytime I heard someone say that too me :-)
why anyone would want to run linux...
(heck, it already uses much of the GNU tool
It does?
As I said, at my university, we are not allowed \handheld computers\ 
among other things. Yet the 49g+ and TI89 seem to be OK, purely because 
they run calculator-type software exclusivly. The understanding is PDA's 
and the like are banned. This Qonos device is apparently capable of 
functioning as both a PDA and calculator, so I'm pretty sure it will be 
banned at my university at least.
cheers,
Al
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
If you look at my original message, you'll see I was comparing the 
HP-48SX/GX to the HP-49G+.  That's been 'generously' 10 years, or 14 if you \

want to be picky.
My experience working in decent sized companies is that management is scared \

to death of just 'tearing down the house' and tossing out old code and 
starting again from scratch (in terms of the lines of code to implement the \

software, not in terms of the actual algorithms used).  I expect that HP 
operates in the same mold -- it's considered 'too risky' to just re-code 
everything (based on the _algorithms_ used in the HP-28/48 or just based on \

what the designers know).
As I've said before, from a business point of view, this is completely 
reasonable -- yet it also opens up the door to the small companies that ARE \

willing to start 'from scratch.'  (It's not necessarily the best analogy, 
but consider nVidia vs. 3DFX in the 3D chipset market: 3DFX has years worth \

of a head start, yet nVidia surpassed them and eventually ran them out of 
business.  Now, nVidia has also become a major motherboard chipset supplier \

as well.  nVidia started with nothing more than plenty of seed money and a 
bunch of talented engineers -- there was no option to re-use some old design \

with a few minor tweaks, because there wasn't an old one to use.)
Point taken.
Yes I am, sorry about that.
The hardware implementation is new information to me; that is a nice 
improvement.
Hey, you get me a million bucks in venture capital and I'll get you Linux in \

an HP-49G+ within, say, 18 months! :-)  (OK, it might be some 'Linux lite,' \

since I'm not sure the hardware in there supports all the necessary MMU 
operations full-blown Linux needs.)
I don't want to run Linux on a calculator, I was just coming from the angle \

of, 'if we ban anything that's capable of running Linux,' the HP-49G+ would \

probably be somewhere on the list.
The version of GCC being developed for the HP-49G+.
Hopefully you'd agree that this is a naive viewpoint (from the perspective 
of those building 'acceptable calculator' lists)!
up its sleeve that I wasn't aware of.
---Joel
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
I think calculators of any kind, laptops, books should be allowed to use at
exams.
why and how the hell did i come to this ?
well, in every day's work engeneers and scientists consult all kind of
literature, comupter and calculators are standard tools, personal notes \
even
council with fellow engeneers or scientists from related fields is welcome
as well.
For me the main goal should be to teach students how to use all means
available to resolve the problem
-stealing (copying) and cheeting excluded.
Ingenuity and creativity should be shown and practiced with students, not
memorizing facts or well known formulas and procedures.
Agreed, they should master (know and understand) basic concepts, but in any
sophisticated problem/issue use of library, internet, computing tools \
should
be encuraged.
When educating a scientist the main goal should be to bring young \
scientists
up to date with science facts and research so one day they may continue or
start researches on their own, instead of waking in other people's
footsteps.
(just a thought)
manjo
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
X
AUUUUGGGHHHH!
Brother-Peter
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
In my opinion, HP took the best decision (no, I'm not related to HP). Yes, 
they used the emulator to keep backwards compatibility. This way they kept 
happy all the users (including myself) that used a 48 or a 49 series, 
because they can keep working the same way and using their favorite programs \

(all I had to learn when I switched from my 48GX to the 49G+ was how to 
switch to RPN mode, the rest was all there). But at the same time they 
created new opcodes in the virtual Saturn to \open the door\ and let us \
walk 
out of the emulation layer. Don't you think that's a very smart move?
Right now your HP49G+ looks similar to the old 49G, running a Saturn but is \

also a 32-bit (lightning fast) C programmable machine with 400 kbytes of 
free ram, massive data storage, USB, IRDA and many other features.
To me, that sounds enough for \ten years\, considering that beats most of \

the competitors and gets very close to some PDA's.
OK, a bigger screen would help in some complex applications, but remember 
that you bought a calculator.
It HAS grayscale graphics!!!
Give some time to the HP community. Some people are working in applications \

written in C. You will be surprised the kind of applications you will see in \

the next year.
Please remember that the best programs for the 48 and 49 series came out 
several years after the release of the calcs (check out the dates of your 
favorite programs in hpcalc.org). The new generation has been out for only 
one year. We are still int the learning stage.
Many of the core routines are ALREADY written in ARM. That boosted the 
performance of the calculator way beyond the performance of the emulator 
itself.
Do you remember the looooooong garbage collections in the 48 series? Have 
you noticed the same in the 49G+? Well, the garbage collection is still 
there, it's just very fast.
I think we just need to learn more about the hardware we have before asking \

for more.
Claudio 
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
Totaly agreed with you Claudio,
-it is normal becuse we both worked in both environments and we understand
the concept
i realy can't imagine myself not goint in to ARM just for a little while in
my programs :-)
ARM as if it was Saturn machine eqiped with ARM co-processor this is just a
matter of how you use available resorces and how you think of it,
bottom line it realy works well, and can be used in that manner.
I got the idea from some Cyrille's sources published way back (when he
opened a door to ARM world for us :-)
Anyway I would hate to loose Saturn, even if they do write all functions,
stack manipulation -all sysRPL commands, in ARM.
manjo
programs
walk
is
QVGA
applications
in
asking
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
I said that the RPL interpreter should have been re-written in something 
that could be compiled natively on the ARM CPU.  Hence, where would 
compatibility with user mode RPL break?  It's not like SYSEVALs/LIBEVALs 
generally port directly between the various machines; what I'm suggested 
would have preserved as much compatibility as I think you actually get.
Yes, it is.
For the hardware, yes, I'd say the improvement is significant.  For the 
software though, no, it's a disappointing effort.  And this is the larger 
part -- it's a fair bet that the HP-49G+'s development has far more man 
hours invested in software than they do in hardware.  Even with the old 
Saturn CPUs that HP custom developed, there were more man hours in software \

than hardware.
There are many cell phones and GPS receivers with significantly higher 
resolution than the HP-49G+ (i.e,. also generally single function devices); \

there's no technical reason the HP-49G+ couldn't have such an LCD as well.
In hardware.  My understanding is that the greyscale graphics are done via 
software interrupt routines, and this is bad for (1) keeping as much CPU 
time as possible available for user programs and (2) (more significantly) 
battery life.
Sure, but I also remember that -- in any language that uses garbage 
collection -- it's generally trivial to force one to occur and thereby 
prevent their occurence at 'inconvenient' times.
---Joel
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
devices);
You may be confusing 49G and older models with G+
G+ has hardware supported 4 shades and 16 shades *real* grayscale even in
Saturn and RPL:
http://fly.cc.fer.hr/~manjo/openfire
manjo
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
---Joel
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
X
X
was it like this:
written by Gherkin, 7 x faster
(and a different way to do it, maybe even starting with the 49G ROM???)
[VPN] 
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
  For not being targeted at students, there were a sure a lot of them
hanging from the belts( Forgive me any lady Engineers and Physicists
out there)of  Engineering, Physics and Chemistry students at the two
schools I was associated with during the time when the C, CV, and CX
were introduced. Texas A&M (1978-1980), U.Tennessee at Chattanooga
1980-Present). 
They even  had special classes given by various Engineering &  Physics
Profs at both schools. 
i.e Useful stuff like how to write a simple program to do linear
interpolation on  Steam Tables etc. or other tables at the back of
many engineering texts.
Harold A. Climer
Dept,Of Physics,Geology & Astronomy
U.T.Chattanooga
Room 318 Grote Hall
615 McCallie Ave 
Chattanooga TN 37403
423-425-4546
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
X
The calculators use eCos, which is embedded Linux
with only a 512KB memory - no, not 512 MB, just 0.5_MB
it is certainly not a PC.
I hope that you are not pushing this idea to your school
for just being rigth in this fact (you are wrong)
Is any PDA, Nokia Communcator, HP iPaq, Palm, etc..
a computer in your school?
Sharp had some Linux PDA for US market, are they computers?
HP iPaq and similar use Microsoft operating system....
Do you think that anything with Linux is a real computer???
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
eCos isn't Linux!  It was built from scratch based on some guy's experience \

was various embedded OSes (as opposed to Linux, which of course was built 
based on Linus Torvalds wanting to build a UNIX clone).  See: 
http://ecos.sourceware.org/fom-serv/ecos/cache/20.html
---Joel
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
I don't think that eCos is linux at all. Hpcalc.org says it runs both 
Linux and eCos, and you can switch between the 2.
It has 64MB built in according to hpcalc.org.
Why would I talk to my school at all about it?
None of these would be permitted in an exam. I'm not saying I agree with 
the idea, but thats how it is. If I saw someone using a Qonos I'd argue 
I should be allowed a laptop. They both should be able to run the same 
software, so why not?
The boundary is blurred, but yes, I would. Strictly speaking all 
calculators are computers.
Linux is commonly used on desktop PC's. I'd call anything that exposes 
linux to the user, a computer in the common usage of the word.
Al
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
X
X
The calc mode doesn't
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
The HP-49G+ has enough CPU power and memory to run just about any 
application you'd typically run on a PDA.  Although such applications don't \

necessarily _exist_ yet, any we going to bane machines based on what 
software they can run today?  Or what software the hardware is reasonably 
capable of running?
Relative to a laptop, the small screen size of a PDA (and especially a 49G+) \

is a significant impediment.
---Joel
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
Right you are Al,
but hey... in sence of honesty which i anounced in my previous posts
288 kB is not real limit for SX and especialy GX i've seen card as large as
4 MB (but not lagrer though)
but still i got your point and i didn't ever see 512 MB card on any models
prior to G+ :-)
I see you understand the importance or student (educational) market and \
also
you understand the problems with differentiation between handhelds and
calculators.
would you agree with the claim : if G+ had color display (if it would be
larger -it would make it even more obviews) and touch screen with stylus \
pen
to write on it -would you agree that more people (educators) would consider
it a handheld computer a PDA, rather than just a calculator.
Therefore it would have increased chance to be banned out from schools.
HP has using legacy ROM's to cut expenses, at the same time this helps
maintain highest possible compatibility.
Posts on this NG show that people do demand for compatibility with older
models, either in the way of user programing language compatibility or
eficient workarounds.
oh, by the way Al, how's your research with THUMB mode going ?
it would be nice to see THUMB mode supported as well.
manjo
bothered to
impressive,
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
X
X
I would like to see ONLY thumb mode supported
There is not enough memory
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
(Manjo)
Not too good I'm afraid. I can compile pure Thumb code fine, but I'm 
having alot of trouble getting ARM-Thumb Interworking going. GCC doesn't 
seem to like Interworking and PIC enabled at once; the linker gives 
errors. I've asked for help on several newsgroups but it looks like 
no-one knows.
I can make it work by enabling 'super-interworking', but this generates 
so much code bloat its not worth it.
(VPN)
I'd prefer to avoid this option. Why not give the programmer choice?
The problem is, some code HAS to be in ARM mode. Whever the processor 
encounters an exception or interrupt, it jumps back to ARM mode. So any 
handlers must be written at least partially in ARM.
Al
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
X
X
ok
it's always best to have all the choises (if possible)
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
Hello Joel,
a
than
48GX
of
I agree GX is a fine machine, but i hate to see people comparing it to G+
my conclusion was always the same :
if GX or SX serves somone good, why even consider buying G+ ?
demo
(just my thoughts)
This is bad practice, they must be preapred for the future
(if they see themselves in this business in the long term)
People have done HP emulators on PC -right ?
so for few bucks (about 800) i can buy prototype board based on Xscale and
develop my own emulator, but what would be the point if i was not serious
enough to support the product even years after it was released.
to
HP has been upgrading and releaseing new products up until now ?
What's the reason to belive they will no longer do that ?
a
True, i did say HIGHEST POSSIBLE, some things can;t be cept the same
forever, and
SYSEVAL like LIBEVAL are just ways for usrRPL programmers to call sysRPL
functions,
it's not realy a proper way to do things.
Proper way is to use supported entries by name, and if necesary to write
your own specific routines in Saturn
programs made like that work from 48SX all the way to G+ (in some cases
minor adjustments due to different hardware may be needed or re-compiling
the sysRPL source if some of the entries was moved -sometimes this can't be
avoided)
Agreed, but if i was an educator and when student takes out somethin big \
and
scary looking with huge
amount of memory -i eould ask him if he had a licence for it :-)
i don't know (would love to hear it though) but i figure it didn;t came out
affordable :-)
it;
I ment : if caluclator was very well equiped, and powerfull as iPAQ and 1/3
of the price as it is now
-would you go and buy iPAQ ? I won't because i like keys and all nice
functions of calculator.
Linux -- 
but
Right this is not exactly what i've been talking about but is good example
of extending the possibilities of use
beyond the original design -that's my point possibilities like these are
what i was exploring here.
It has always been bizzare and little differences that made one unit
acceptable, and others not.
Finaly somone could come up and admit that he/she's allowing only
calculators which are shitty enough so you can get true help (at exams) \
from
using them.
While back calcultors with text capabilities were banned out, then the ones
with QWERTY keyboard and staff like that -isn't that equaly bizzare ?
even
firms
I'm not so well informed, (i don't know CEO of HP, too bad she doesn't know
me either :-), but
I think you're missing what i was aiming at there, i don't think it will be
a failure, in fact  i hope it will be a success, but
i'm not totaly optimistic about it -there is little doubt in my mind.
Making a good product has always been a little more than : put toughether a
good hardware and pump it with great software.
to see other people's point of view and perception of things.
manjo
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
X
Exactly my thoughts when they pull out their 49g+
Remeber
the Qonos keypad is a fold-in design - it's smaller
and when the keys are not in sight it looks quite innocent
(only F1...F6, space & ENTER plus the navigator)
only when you turn away
the pupil opens the SDA to reveal it's full power!
X
X
While Qonos does nor have Qwerty
some people just might change it to Qwerty via programming
I wonder if some blank keyboard overlays comes with the SDA?
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
Hey, I had a Casio PB-1000 is high school!  FAR bigger, geekier, etc. than a \

BASIC programming!  Woo hoo!).  It was always allowed whenever calculators 
in general were, although I undoubtedly benefitted from being one of the few \

people with such 'high tech' devices at the time.  (The common HP calculator \

at that point was the 10/11C.  Actually, only a few people had those -- most \

had completely non-programmable calculators.)
---Joel
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
out
Probably didn't make a good \per-knob\ price :-)
hehe
-just to keep the good spirit
manjo
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
X
Qonos has more keys than any known calculator
Hydrix has no other direct sales products
thus Qonos will not interfere with their products  :-)
X
X
If you need both, buy both, spend moooore money
(kjeh-kjeh)  <- evil laughter
BUT
Hydrix offers a unique solution for
A) TI users who want to also carry a HP
B) TI users who also want to have maths explorer
C) TI users who also want a PDA
D) TI users who want a faster TI
E)F)G) HP users wanting a TI, Mathsexplorer, PDA
H) PDA users who want a leading calc (HP or TI)
I) PDA users who want a longer battery life
J) Geeks who want the latest widget
K) Linux users who want to have it on the pocket
L) anyone avoiding a heavy laptop and to whome a PDA is enough
    as long as it has a keyboard and it fits the pocket
M) more, more....
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
I agree with most of your writing VPN
i just hoped you would agree that G+ is more calculator-like than Qonos,
Qonos is proclaimed as SDA so not only by design by name also more like PDA
device.
it's not the processor that makes unit a PDA -it's the design and \
operation.
Yes ARM is common in PDA's BUT then what about digital cameras, routers,
wireless equpment, even some microwave owens and many more nice gadgets :-)
Does that mean G+ is a Microwave owen ? I hope not...
G+ has very clear calculator design, (i hate to repeat myself)
-having 6 function keys under the display is just the right number 5 is to
few, any more would be a crowd.
-dictated (indirectly) by school authorities.
Having touch screen and stylus is nice feature, but this is main feature of
PDA devices
-touch pad (for example) is likewize main feature for Lap-top computers
If i wanted a flexible (read expensive) PDA(like) device i would buy a real
PDA something like:
Tons of software, accessories and so on...
I didn't start this threed to flame about G+ being better or wors than
Qonos,
it would be logical that Qonos is better, since it's goal is to be better
than anything else currently on the market.
I was just delighted to see the possibilities of stealing iPAQ's \
accessories
for all of us here,
INCLUDING future Qonos users. There are 802.11 cards available as
well -great possibilities again
I thought the idea was good enough to share here.
Another thing is that i realize and understand the difficulties the Qonos
people are going trough.
I would never (even if i had the money) have the currage to go for such
project i would rather develop alternate operating system for G+ (if that
wouldn't be copyright breach of course :-)
I admire the currage and enthusiasm the most -therefore they have my full
support and attention.
In the start of whole Qonos vs. G+ deal i had much faith in Qonos and was \
in
doubt about G+,
but then G+ turned out to be A LOT MORE than what is written on the box and
i realized that actualy my trust in G+ was too low, Qonos being anounced \
too
early lost some of it's glory in waiting and waiting to se what happens...
anyway...
Let's just keep honest (for our own sake) :
Let's not say G+ can't do something, and Qonos on the other hand will do \
all
that and more, when in fact there is equal chance for G+ to do something as
it is for Qonos. Remeber Qonos is still to become real, so i would rather
wait and see.
Why not feel free and explore the possibilities ?
There you go : a marketing slogan for Qonos (feel free to use it)
EXPLORE THE POSSIBILITIES WITH QONOS SDA
possibilities -implies that highly advanced mathematical unit we're talking
about here
exploration -implies science
manjo
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
X
X
hp 49g+ (and 39g+ and 48gII) is really a PDA (ARM-based)
that is running a caluclator (and Saturn) emulator
AND
thus should be not compared to Titanic, 49G, 48GX, etc...
which are real calculators...
8-P
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
A BIG difference is the actual HP49G+ does work a month or more with a
set o batteries ... I don«t know a PDA can do that....
Daniel
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
Palm III series, HP{95,100,200}LX, at least.
-- 
-----
-+- in: Guide du Neuneu d'Usenet - Y'a de l'avenir dans le neuneu -+-
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
This is exactly why there is a separate calc mode in Qonos
BUT
Qonos will be ready some time in 2005
AND
the PDA mode will barely last over a weekend
SO
you are correct!
Also note: not all PDA's have alphabet and/or calculator keys
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
Careful with that distinction!  If you make the distinction between 'real' 
calculators and other things, based on the CPU used, then you can get into 
trouble.
Remember, the Titanic is based on a 68k processor.  68k processors have been \

used in the past to make multi-purpose personal computers.  That would mean \

that the Titanic isn't a 'real' calculator -- it's a PC!
It's been argued that the original 49G and the 48GX were real calculators, 
but not the 49g+.  What does the 49g+ have that sets it apart?
- You can expand the 49g+'s memory using add-in cards.  Same with the 48GX.
- There's work on increasing the functionality of the 49g+ using perhiprial \

devices.  Several devices were designed to communicate with the 48GX and the \

49G.  Granted, there are more/different opportunities with the new methods 
of connecting the devices to the 49g+, but the overall effect is the same.
- You can write programs in C to execute on the 49g+.  That's been available \

on the Titanium for quite a while.  The more important fact here is that the \

calculator can run *any* machine language program that you may want to put 
on it -- which high-level language it was compiled from is not relevant to 
the calculator.  Every TI graphing calculator since the TI 85 has supported \

that, ditto for every HP since the 48S.
My point is, the underlying hardware architecture does not make or break the \

definition of any device as a \real\ calculator.  If you were to replace \
the 
ROM chip of a TI 83 or a HP 48G, with software that makes it 'look' like a 
PDA -- maybe even removed all capabilities to do math -- it would stop being \

a calculator, wouldn't it?  The software level of the application is much 
more relevant to the distinction of being a 'real' calculator.
Luke
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
is
agereed only for the 48GX, the rest aren't *real* calculators
if you know what I mean
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
Hello Zaratustra, VPN, cycojesus, and all interested in the subject
I realize now there is a difference between SDIO and SD :-(
but the moment i saw it i was so excited i thought it was working within SD
standard.
Now what is did is:
Inspired by you guys and my lack of knowledge in that area
i found and read some docs about SDIO it is a shame that.
i'm very unsatisfied with the docs because they are like more mistifying
then informative, anyway i remembered to double check with Samsung doc and
guess what i'we found:
theatrical pause:
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
Among all other nice features possesed by our baby you can find:
SD Host Interface
. Compatible with SD Memory Card Protocol version 1.0
. Compatible with SDIO Card Protocol version 1.0
. 64 Bytes FIFO for Tx/Rx
. DMA based or Interrupt based operation
. Compatible with Multimedia Card Protocol version 2.11
So you see...
 -there is still hope for my claim:
Even the designers of G+ will be surprised one day what their baby can do
:-)
manjo
===
Subject: Re: Nice piece of hardware
I'm afraid you can't as the SD slot of the HP49G+ is not SDIO compatible \
:'(
manjo a \.8ecrit :
===
Subject: invalid syntax in USER RPL
which is not really a program, but a macro execution.  My knowledge of
object programming is limited at best.
I am writing a program to compute an impedance offset for a 50 ohm
adds them together.
ex:  (CF1 + CF2) ... where CF? are the two equations to be evaluated
and added.  I tried to manually type them in, I tried to use the soft
keys to call them.  I get an 'invalid syntax' message and the first
CF? is highlighted.  Even if I delete one it still highlights the
other.
And while I am at it, if I am looping a set of equations and need to
check if the answer is close enough to the ideal and then kick out and
show the number.  Is there a way to perform a double check condition? 
What I mean is how would I program the math statement; 1.03t<=
Any expedious help would be greatly appreciated.
===
Subject: Re: invalid syntax in USER RPL
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
Have you opened the manuals?
Maybe you need ticks around it: '(CF1+CF2)'
alternatively
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: invalid syntax in USER RPL
Also beware that CF is the name of a command. CF1 *is* valid for a 
variable but if you've made a typo then you'll get a different error 
from the one you might have expected.
-- 
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey
England
===
Subject: Carly Fiorna on FoxNewsCable Today...
10 Min.
Neil Cavuto 
1:30 PM 
West Coast
I think she's utterly charming.
===
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorna on FoxNewsCable Today...
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
O know, I know, I have a huge photo of her
....
I use it for target practising
(-;
[VPN] 
===
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorna on FoxNewsCable Today...
Ok, she's your favorite Pin-Up but there is really no need to tell us about
your \exercises\ :-)
Roman
===
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorna on FoxNewsCable Today...
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
HI,  Roman!
After spending some boxees of 9mm rounds for that picture
my .44 Magnum feels soooo lonely
Could you please send you photo in
especially if your nose is large
(-;
[Virtually Practising at Noses]
===
Subject: Curious HMS Result
Does anyone have an explanation for the following on the 49G+?
With an input value of 0.0800 to the following program, the result is
0.0760.
The expected result is 0 hours, 8 minutes and 0 seconds (i.e., the
same as what was entered).
I was using this sort of conversion on the front end of a program to
limit/bound some data entry time values.  It was somewhat
disappointing when this happened.  I enter 8 minutes and the
calculator returns 7 minutes and 60 seconds.  Yes, I know they could
be considered the same but...
Gary
===
Subject: Re: Curious HMS Result
It's caused by roundoff, since .08 converts to .133333333333. Change
the last 3 to a 9, and you get .08 back again.  This problem isn't
very likely to happen - I work with HMS commands at work all the time,
and your post is the first time I've seen this oddity.
Bill
===
Subject: Re: Curious HMS Result
this rarely happens but it still would be desirable to somehow protect
against it.  What I like about the double conversion operation
appropriate manner.  (Ex:  0.0061 returns 0.0101 etc)  At least that
suits my needs anyway.  Now I wonder if there are others waiting to be
found.
Gary
===
Subject: Re: Curious HMS Result
::
 CK1
 CKREAL
 DUP
 %IP
 SWAP
 %FP
 % 3600
 %*
 %0
 RNDXY
 % 60
 2DUP
 %MOD
 % 10000
 %/
 UNROT
 %/
 %IP
 % 100
 %/
 %+
 %+
;
cheers
===
Subject: Re: Curious HMS Result
Hello Reth,
logic.  It's kind of like buying a digital clock only to find out that
some times it displays XX:XX:60.  A person wouldn't settle for that,
right?
Anyway, problem solved and I'm a happy camper now.
Gary
===
Subject: Re: Curious HMS Result
looks like:
%%HP: T(3)A(D)F(.);
\::
  CK1
  CKREAL
  %360
  %MOD
  DUP
  %IP
  SWAP
  %FP
  %360
  %10*
  %*
  %0
  RNDXY
  %%60
  2DUP
  %MOD
  %100
  %SQ_
  %/
  3UNROLL
  %/
  %IP
  %100
  %/
  %+
  %+
;
@\
slightly shorter and quicker
reth
===
Hi Reth,
It seems like I had better luck with the other SysRPL listing.  An
error message  occurs when I try to compile the program above.  Note
that I have been doing this via an emulated HP49G using EMU48.
Can I ask you about something related to another SysRPL program?  How
does one swap the input values from the stack, and the computed
outputs at the end, that are used in the following program?
::
  CK2&Dispatch
  2REAL
;
@
This program was one of the examples given on another recent thread
regarding rectangular to polar conversion.  I wanted to have the
operations mimic what happens on an HP-41.  The input of X is on stack
1 and Y is on stack 2.  The output of magnitude is on stack 1 and the
angle is on stack 2.  Trying the SWAP command in this little program
hasn't worked for me -- what am I doing wrong?
Gary
===
Easy:
::
  CK2&Dispatch
  2REAL
;
@
===
We'll look at the code:
Now you are having probelsm i imagine because you are adding a SWAP like \
this:
SWAP
Remember that it must be *ONE* object, so we'll package it like this
2REAL
::
  SWAP
;
Now we have a single composite object that will be run when 2 reals are \
present.
TW
===
something related to another SysRPL program?  How
::
 CK2&Dispatch
 2REAL
 ::
  SWAP
 ;
;
CK2&Dispatch will check it there are 2 arguments and dispatch accordingly -
in this case if there are 2 reals what ever is between the next :: and ;
don't need to enclose it in :: ;
It's all very nicely explained in Eduardo Kalinowski & Carsten Dominik's
book \Programming in System RPL\ available in PDF format by the name
progsysrpl.pdf - get it!
::
  CK1
  CKREAL
  %360
  %MOD
  DUP
  %IP
  SWAP
  %FP
  %360
  %10*
  %*
  %0
  RNDXY
  %%60
  2DUP
  %MOD
  %100
  %SQ_
  %/
  3UNROLL
  %/
  %IP
  %100
  %/
  %+
  %+
;
@
cheers
===
Hi Reth,
Yeh, I've been reading \Programming in System RPL\ but since I'm still
a novice it's like trying to get a drink of water from a fire
hydrant!!!
Gary
===
Subject: Re: Curious HMS Result
you may also add 2 lines to the above prog:
...
CKREAL
% 360
%MOD
...
angles
cheers,
Reth
===
Subject: Re: Curious HMS Result
The only way to avoid any possibility of round off problems would be to 
program to do everything in exact mode, exact integer plus exact 
fractional hours (or improper fractional hours) to integer hours, 
integer minutes and integer seconds and  exact fractional seconds (or 
improper fractional seconds, and the reverse conversions, perhaps 
implemented as lists or strings.
===
Subject: Re: Curious HMS Result
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
X
This special HMS/DMS format coul be implemented internally as a list
but the user would see maybe degrees minutes seconds attached together
102o45\12.5'
more, better ideas?
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: Curious HMS Result
the rounding would some times end up with the annoying ...XX'60\. that's \
why
the built-in one when it comes to display. when I said slower, that is
measuring times on the HP48GX ( not noticeable in a running programme ); on
the 49g+ I find no significant difference in speed at all
cheers
===
Subject: Re: Curious HMS Result
Actually, it returns 7.59999999999E-2, and your display settings round it
to 0.0760
represented in HR format.
===
Subject: Re: Curious HMS Result
It is a roundoff error. 
It is due to the fact that terminating decimal seconds do not all covert 
to terminating decimal hours and terminating decimal hours do not all 
convert to terminating decimal seconds, so there is a round off error 
possible when doing these conversions, and you hit it.
===
Subject: Txt-Editor and how to get 0.5 to 1/2 fast
Hi there,
I just got my HP48G+ a few days ago.
I surfed along homepages like area48.com and
hpcalc and read the normal user-manual and some other manuals, but I still
don't know how to get a decimal
like 0.5 to 1/2
1/2 to 0.5   with RF and NUM   but how to reverse it?
And is there a PGM which allows me to write plain txt-files on my PC and
then transfer them directly to my HP48g+ and read them there?
Hope someone can help me with those basic questions.
===
Subject: Re: Txt-Editor and how to get 0.5 to 1/2 fast
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
Notepad, use the communication program downloadable from HP web-site
and also from www.hpcalc.org
[VPN] 
===
Subject: Re: Txt-Editor and how to get 0.5 to 1/2 fast
I can't seem to find that Q button. My friend got an older HP and there he
has that Q button... but on my HP49G+ it seems, that there is no such
button...
btw thx for the txt-file tip !!
still
===
Subject: Re: Txt-Editor and how to get 0.5 to 1/2 fast
Just type
alpha rightshift 0 alpha Q
out.
-- 
~/.signature
===
Subject: Re: Txt-Editor and how to get 0.5 to 1/2 fast
Ahhh thx a lot! It works finde. But I only manage to do it in the RPN
mode.... how about the
algebraic mode? or does noone use it? ;-)
Maybe I should start using the RPN mode... that library is also just for
rpn-modes....
===
Subject: Re: Txt-Editor and how to get 0.5 to 1/2 fast
there's no *algebraic* mode on the HP48G+ so not sure what you're 
referring to.
Why don't you read the starting guide of the HP48 manual? and learn at 
least the basic such as how to type characters with the keyboard
JY
===
Subject: Re: Txt-Editor and how to get 0.5 to 1/2 fast
he obviously meant 49G+ ( it's a typo in his 1st post )
cheers
===
Subject: Re: Txt-Editor and how to get 0.5 to 1/2 fast
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
ALGebraic mode? IF your calc is 49 series (49G, 49g+, 48gII)
you can also use XQ and XNUM commands
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: Txt-Editor and how to get 0.5 to 1/2 fast
Sure you should - there the real power of HP calcs is :)
If I could I would get rid of all algebraic stuff both from the ROM and \
from
the keyboard annotations - unfortunately I'm not that lucky
[personal opinion only but I'm sure many would join me]
cheers
===
Subject: Re: Txt-Editor and how to get 0.5 to 1/2 fast
you can get HLP49 (library 1749) by Bill Markwick, it's got everything
you'll need
and
===
Subject: Graphics on HP49G+
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
Is it possible to convert a .bmp file to a format for the calc?
I've found one program wich converts it into a .GG file, but the Conn4x 
program shows a warning that the file may damage the calc. If I transfer it \

anyways, nothing is possible with the file.
/Terkel 
===
Subject: Re: Graphics on HP49G+
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
xnview
===
Subject: 512kb in HP48SX
I found a 4x128kb memory card for the SX on a german side.
http://www.klotz-electronic.de/index_e.html Who owns this card and can tell
me something about quality and compatibility?
Thanx,
Lummi
===
Subject: Re: 512kb in HP48SX
the 48SX will only take 128K cards
these cards are excellent, I've never heard complaints
tell
===
Subject: Re: 512kb in HP48SX
GEt it ; best quality, works fine; you only can address 128 KB at a time
which is not a problem - just switch it over.
Dan
Reth schrieb in Nachricht ...
===
Subject: Really need help with EQL+
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
Okay I installed eql+ to my g+ and attached it t\\with a warm start, like i \

did with appsman, now my problem is that I don't know  how to run them or 
find them. any help? 
===
Subject: Re: Really need help with EQL+
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response
anyone willing to nelp???
===
Subject: Re: Really need help with EQL+
   posting-account=d8X8zw0AAAB_Eo2ldj3HF5DzN42pN3GY
RS(red)-2.  That is where all libraries are installed.
===
Subject: Re: Really need help with EQL+
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
===
Subject: Binary tree in sysRPL challenge
Inspired by Claudio Lapilli
I thought about how to implement
Binary tree (and variations) in sysRPL
Consider binary tree as fundamental structure to advanced decision-based
programming.
Can be base to AI and neural network simulatons as well.
anyone interested in the subject ?
(i'm not sure if i saw a demo program to build, analyse, traverse and \
delete
a binary tree)
manjo
===
Subject: Re: Binary tree in sysRPL challenge
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
It is a very interesting subject, of course.
dependency tree for a set of formulas. In the end it works like a 
spreadsheet. I've been using it for a while for my work and it seems to be 
reasonably stable.
into a variable, it stores the formula in a separate directory, evaluates 
the formula end stores the result in the variable.
At the same time, it analyzes the formula and creates a dependency tree.
This way you can do:
4 'B' MySTO
5 'A' MySTO
'A+B' 'C' MySTO
And you will get a 9 stored in 'C' but the formula is saved in a different 
variable.
Now if you do:
0 'A' MySTO
It will traverse the dependency tree and correctly update every variable 
depending on A. In this example, C will be automatically recalculated to be \

4.
The most tricky part is to avoid duplicate references and keep the order of \

the dependencies in a mathematically correct order (specially when you purge \

variables, for which I created a special purge too).
It's written in 100% SysRPL. You can get the sources if it \inspires\ you \
:)
Claudio 
===
Subject: Re: Binary tree in sysRPL challenge
Oh, thank you Khanh-Dang, and Claudio,
i understand the theory matter you described here Khanh :-)
your choice of words is excellent, complete tree is exactly what you wanted
to say :-)
Great work Claudio, you're saying that you used tree structure to evaluate
mathematical expressions
(strings) in your spread sheet program.
Khannk - i by traversing the tree i ment going trough the nodes similar to
recursive way -it should allow you
to print out sorted contents of the tree. I think (i'm not sure if it's a
fact) that every recursive function can be made in (more or less complex)
non-recursive way.
So it is possible that non-recursive function may turn out to be very
complex, but still simpler (or faster) than implementing your own stack (in
Saturn ASM case).
manjo
===
Subject: Re: Binary tree in sysRPL challenge
manjo a \.8ecrit :
I use lists as implementation of binary trees :
{ value subtree1 subtree2 }
It's not very fast, but maybe because I am using an \old\ hp49 with \
UserRPL.
I think the best way is to store a tree within a library data :
LIBDAT SIZE
NODE_1 PtrToSubtreeLeft_1 PtrToSubTreeRight_1
...
NODE_n PtrToSubtreeLeft_n PtrToSubTreeRight_n
A special value (NULL for example) could be assigned to PtrToSubTree if 
the node is a leaf (terminal node).
All the routines could easily be written is ASM. In fact, the dificulty 
is that you have to program recursively and as the Saturn processsor has 
a very poor return stack, you have to implement your own one. I don't 
===
Subject: Re: Binary tree in sysRPL challenge
UserRPL.
I agre :
Saturn was not designed for recursions, on the other hand ARM has
excellent stack and stack dedicated instruction as well as stack dedicated
register.
sysRPL has great recursion abilities, and is somwhat faster than userRPL
your userRPL solution is great -by using lists you have it all done, memory
allocation, and
\addressing\ by the item number.
nice work -this is great solution
can you think of a way to traverse binary tree in non-recursive manner ?
manjo
===
Subject: Re: Binary tree in sysRPL challenge
manjo a \.8ecrit :
What do you excatly mean by \traverse a binary tree\ ? Does it mean to 
give the list of all the tree's elements ?
If you chose to implement a binary tree by a recursive structure, such 
as the one I gave in a post above : { value subtree1 subtree2 }, you 
*have to* program with recursion, unless you have some other assumptions 
about the tree.
Fo example, if you assume that your binary tree is complete (I don't 
know if this is the good english word (in french : \arbre binaire 
complet\), i.e. each node has two (not one, nor zero !) subtrees, apart 
from the terminal nodes (the leaves), and all leaves must have the same 
height+/-1 (\hauteur\ in french). Then, you can acces an element 
directly by calculating its memory address.
That's why you can then store all your elements in an array (it's called 
a \heap\ if I my memory is not deficient :). If you are considering an 
element whose index in the array is k, then its subtrees (if they exist) 
has as indexes : 2k+1 and 2k+2. Here, you can easily program without 
recursion. *But* this involves that your binary tree is complete, which 
is not always the case.
A very big and bad hack could be to always write a binary tree as 
complete : you have to fill all the missing nodes by a constant 
NULL_LEAF in the array. But as I've just said, this is a big hack 
because it's not very memory efficient. For exemple, let's consider the 
following integers-binary tree :
      5
        \\
         1
        / \\
       2   9
is equivalent to the following complete binary tree (the stars * stands 
for NULL_LEAF) :
      5
    /   \\
   *     1
  / \\   / \\
*   * 2   9
which can be stored in memory as the following array of integers :
[5 0 1 0 0 2 9]
if you choose 0 as the constant NULL_LEAF (that's mean you assume that 0 
cannot be a value of your binary tree). Practically, you can choose 
NULL_LEAF as infinite i.e. #fffff for a SysRPL bint.
As you can see, with this hack, you lost 3*sizeof(int) bytes in memory. 
But it's fast, because accessing an element in an array is fast.
However, generally speaking, because of the recursive mathematical 
definition of a tree, it's very difficult to avoid recursive 
programming. In fact, I don't think this is possible.
And one more time, please excuse my bad english :)
===
Subject: Re: Binary tree in sysRPL challenge
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
I'm interested to see trinary trees
[VPN]
===
Subject: Re: Binary tree in sysRPL challenge
why VPN ?
-is trinary tree a problem for you ? :-)
just think of third branching condition -and there you go
(if we speak of classic tree building method based on relation between tree
content and new input)
trees with multiple branching have (naturaly) far more complex decision
methods
-therefore they are excellent for neural-simulations
don't you just love trees ?
(both in nature and virtual)
immagine 3D scene organised in tree structure
2 ways subrtrees are connected to parrent wich is actualy object in front,
the object itself if a set of faces which are again organized in tree
structure perpaired for \painter's algorithm\ (sorted by depth).
This could become a true mess :-) but it woul dbe interesting to see how it
would work :-)
manjo
===
Subject: NCEES Bans More Calculators